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Clinton Lashes Out
At Health Care Critic

LAS VEGAS--After years of being criticized for the failed universal health care plan she crafted during her husband's first term in office, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) apparently has had enough.

During a forum at the National Association of Black Journalists convention Thursday, Clinton was asked why as a candidate for president she was "still insisting" on bringing "socialized medicine" to the United States, when people were "pulling away" from similar systems in Canada and Great Britain. Worse, the questioner argued, socialized medicine hurt rather than helped poor people.

"That was a string of misrepresentations about me and about the systems in other countries," Clinton began. "Number one, I have never advocated socialized medicine and I hope all the journalists here heard that loudly and clearly because that has been a right-wing attack on me for 15 years. "

Clinton's plan, which died in Congress in 1994,would have required employers to provide health care coverage to employees through health maintenance organizations. Insurance firms opposed the proposal, as did political conservatives who thought it removed health care -- a huge portion of the nation's economy -- out of the competitive marketplace. In the minds of some, the episode sealed Clinton's reputation as a big-government liberal.

"Do you think Medicare is socialized medicine? Clinton asked, turning the tables on her inquisitor, who did not identify himself.

"To a degree," he responded.

"Well, then you are in a small minority in America," Clinton said to applause, before explaining that Medicare allows patients to choose their doctors even though the federal government foots the bill with money deducted from workers' paychecks.

Clinton then asserted that "on balance" countries with uniform national systems of health care, including Japan, Australia and Canada, offer their citizens better health care than the U.S. The answer left her questioner shaking his head in disagreement.

"I can give you the statistics and you can shake your head," Clinton said sharply. "You come and introduce yourself to the staff. And we'll try to give you some information if you're interested in being educated instead of being rhetorical."

--Michael A. Fletcher

By Post Editor  |  August 9, 2007; 7:51 PM ET
Categories:  B_Blog , Hillary Rodham Clinton  
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Every developed country (Canada, European Union, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore) has Government supported National Health System. None of these nations are planning to scrap their NHS! The delays in elective surgery in their NHS is grossly exaggerated. What is noteworthy is that healthcare in these nations are not employment dependent. Hence the kind of fear that pervades in the US when one loses a healthcare provided job does not exist. It also spares employers of crippling healthcare costs - particularly for retirees. And in these nations if someone wishes to pay for private medical care he can do so.

The US is the only developed nation without universal healthcare and it is time it had one. Vested interests like doctors (highest paid in the world), pharma companies (price gouging at its worst, their claims of ploughing back profits into R&D unsubstantiated), insurance companies (cherry picking among applicants to exclude the sick) and trial lawyers (eager to file class action suits in an environment where the tort laws favor exorbitant jury awards) have colluded to push the middle class worker into desperation.

Hillary is the only one who can build a universal healthcare system as she has the stature, experience and most importantly the ability to rally the middle class and poor against the vested interests who will oppose this noble effort through vilifying her attempts as "socializing" a swear word in America no matter if socialized medicine (if it meant the creation of an NHS) delivers the greatest good to the greatest number.

Posted by: padmanabhan40 | August 11, 2007 1:14 AM | Report abuse

The Clinton Administration created our current health care crisis which began full force in 1998. Evidence enclosed.
RE: Clinton's plan, which died in Congress in 1994, would have required employers
to provide health care coverage to employees through [ HMO ] Health Maintenance
18 USC Sec. 24 01/02/01-EXPCITE- TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE PART I - CRIMES CHAPTER 1 - GENERAL PROVISIONS-HEAD- Sec. 24. Definitions relating to Federal health care offense-STATUTE-
Subject to prosecution -- 1998 NATIONAL -- HEALTH CARE FRAUD AND ABUSE CONTROL PROGRAM, under the Joint Direction [ T18CFR371-illegal agreement to induce forfiture of Federal Hospital Insurance Benefits DHHS T42CFR417 Anti-dumping violation to force illegal HCFA Medicaid kickback conversions ] of the ATTORNEY GENERAL and the Secretary of [ DHHS ] the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)(1), acting through the Department's [ OIG ] Inspector General (HHS/OIG), Designed [ HMO Grievance Procedure T42CFR417 criminal denial of covered Hospital Insurance claims/Volentary Disclousure/SELF-Audit Program ] to coordinate Federal, State and Local Law Enforcement activities [ misprison of a felony / defrauding federal health insurance programs HCFA Medicaid etal / OPM FEHBP CITE: 5CFR890.105 ] With Respect to [ Federal Hospital Insurance Benefit / Claims ] Health Care Fraud and Abuse. [ Anti-dumping and Anti-kickback Violations ]
DHHS OIG News Release 21 October 1998 - Federal Hospital Insurance Fraud T42CFR417 Adverse Determination:
Volentary Disclousure of Health Care Fraud For Immediate Release Contact: ...............Judy Holtz (202) 619-0893
Wednesday, October 21,1998 ...................Ben St.John (202) 619-1028
The ( DHHS OIG ) Department of Health and Human Services's Office of Inspector General ( OIG ) today unveiled an expanded and simplified Program For [ Federal HMO Hospital Insurance Contract ] Health Care Providers to 'volentarily report' [ misprison of a felony / T42CFR417 ] Fraudulent Conduct ( CRIME ) Affecting Medicare, Medicaid and other [ OPM FEHBP et al ] Federal health care programs.
Unlike the piolet program,which was only available to 'certain' ( Federal ) health care providers in a few STATES and had strict eligibility requirements, the New Program is OPEN TO ALL ( Federal ) providers NATIONWIDE under signaficantly Relaxed Requirements ( misprison of felony/T42CFR417 ) for ( Health Care fraud ) participation.
NOW ALL ( Federal ) health care Providers Doing Business with Medicare, Medicaid, or Other Federal health care programs [ OPM FEHBP / TRICARE / CHAMPVA / etal ] that " Want to " disclose Violations of Law [ Title18CFR24Crime ] are eligible for acceptance into The [ National - Health Care Fraud & Abuse -illegal agreement to induce forfiture T42CFR417 Control ] Program. The [ Federal ( OPM FEHBP ) HMO Contractor ] Provider will have the option of doing 'SELF-audit' [ DHHS T42CFR417 Anti-dumping violation ] in conformance 'with OIG' [ defrauding federal health insurance programs with respect to claims: OPM FEHBP 5CFR890.105: criminal denial of COVERED Claims T18CFR371 to FORCE illegal HCFA State Medicaid kickback conversions ]
White Collar Crime
1998 INDUCED FORFITURE -- Hospital Insurance Fraud - Adverse Determinations - TITLE 42-[ DHHS ]-PUBLIC HEALTH HUMAN SERVICES PART 417-[ Federal HMO ]-HEALTH MAINTENANCE ORGANIZATIONS, [ OIG Special Services / misprison of a felony ] Subpart B-( HMO )- Qualified Health Maintenance Organizations: " Services " (g) Grievance procedures: DENIAL OF Existing OPM FEHBP HMO Hospital Insurance Services [ DHHS Anti-dumping violation, adverse determination, for criminal HCFA Medicaid kickback conversions ]. (h) " Special " rules : Enrollees ( Covered Individuals T42CFR409.33 ) under the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program ( FEHBP ). An HMO that accepts enrollees under the ( OPM ) FEHBP (Chapter 89 of title 5 of the U.S.C.) may obtain and retain Federal qualification if....
The Federal HMO Programs affected by DHHS T42CFR417 adverse determination, grievance service, misprison of felony T18CFR286 Hospital Insurance Fraud by Fright - White Collar Crime, criminal denial of covered post hospital extended care Claims - are:
TRICARE (including coverage provided by the Uniformed Services Family Health Plan)
1998 OIG Volentary Disclousure Program / illegal agreement to Induce Forfiture T42CFR417 of OPM FEHBP [ et al CHAMPVA,Medicaid,TRICARE,Medicare ] Hospital Extended Care Benefits w / OPM FEHBP T5CFR890.105 criminal denial of existing federal hospital insurance claims - approximate Value $288,000.oo Each defrauded individual ' General Public ' adverse determination, to force criminal HCFA State Medicaid kickback applications / conversions - DHHS and Federal HMO Dumping.
The Health Care Financing Administration (HCFA) administers the Medicaid
400.603 Application for, or Determining Rights to, medicaid benefits; false statement or false representation of material facts; concealing or failing to disclose certain events; felony; penalty. [M.S.A. 16.614(3) ] ............. CITE: DHHS T42CFR417 and OPM T5CFR890.105 - Criminal DENIAL of COVERED T42CFR409.33 Federal Hospital Insurance Benefit Claims to Force illegal HCFA State Medicaid Kickback Conversions -- DHHS & Federal HMO Hospital Dumping.
TITLE 42--PUBLIC HEALTH CHAPTER IV -[ HCFA ]-HEALTH CARE FINANCING ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF [ DHHS ] HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES PART 409--HOSPITAL INSURANCE BENEFITS--Table of Contents Subpart D-[ Federal ]-Requirements for Coverage of Posthospital SNF Care Sec. 409.33 Examples of skilled nursing and rehabilitation services.
The Anti-Dumping Statute [ Hospital Insurance Fraud DHHS T42CFR417 anti-dumping violation ] is Enforced Jointly by the Health Care Financing Administration [ HCFA ] and the Office of Inspector General [ OIG ] of the [ DHHS ] U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).
DATED: November 24, 1998
June Gibbs Brown
[ DHHS ] Inspector General
DATED: November 24, 1998
Nancy-Ann Min DeParle
[ HCFA ] Administrator, Health Care Financing Administration
1. Separate and apart from the anti-dumping statute, in accordance with sections 1857(g), 1876(i)(6), 1903(m)(5) and 1932(e) of the Social Security Act, the OIG (acting on behalf of the Secretary) has the authority to impose intermediate sanctions against Medicare and Medicaid [ Federal ] contracting managed care Plans that Fail to Provide [ DHHS & Federal HMO T42CFR417 Adverse Determination: criminal denial of covered Federal Hospital Insurance Benefits, anti-dumping violation ] Medically Necessary Services, including Emergency Services, to Enrollees where the Failure [ T42CFR417 denial of posthospital extended care claims], ADVERSELY Affects (or has a substantial likelihood of Adversely Affecting) the [ Entitled Individual ] Enrollee. Medicare and Medicaid [ Federal ] managed care plans that fail to comply with the above provision are subject to civil money penalties of up to $25,000 for EACH Denial [ DHHS T42CFR417 Adverse determination, anti-dumping violation ] of Medically Necessary Services.
The Region V HCFA [ Chicago ] office had a record high 940 new MSP cases filed in 1998. Contributing to this were PARTNERSHIP Arrangements with [ Federal HMO T42CFR417 adverse determinations T42CFR409.33 ] Contractors and U.S. Attorneys [ T18CFR1518 - T18CFR286 - T18CFR371 ] in Michigan and Ohio as well as a new notice letter to assist fiscal intermediaries in recoveries.
According to the Detroit News, Between 1999 & 2001 Michigan's HCFA Medicaid clientele ballooned [ DHHS T42CFR417 anti-dumping, adverse determination, anti-kickback violation against Individuals with Existing Federal HMO Hospital Insurance Policies - to force illegal HCFA State Medicaid application - fraud by fright - white collar crime ] to 1.25 million from 1 million, at a cost of approximately $6,000 on each Medicaid Reciepent.
The Detroit News stated according to Paul Rienhart " a Medicaid Expert " in
The State Budget Office of Michigan, says
[ HCFA / OFIS ] Medicaid consumed 8% of Michigan's General Funds in 1998.
[ HCFA / OFIS ] Medicaid will consume 32 % of the General Fund budget by 2004.
All Entitled Federal Employee Health Beneficiaries being criminally denied [ DHHS T42CFR417 ] Existing Federal Health Insurance Coverage Title18CFR1001Crime.

Posted by: Justmyopnion | August 10, 2007 10:54 PM | Report abuse

Being a practicing physician for 11 years and running my on clinic with a small number of employees (and providing them with healthcare insurance) , I do have day to day experiences which give me some perspective on the nation's healthcare problems. There is no single simple solution and there is no perfect candidate. When Hilary first attempted to solve the problem I was definitely against it, because as everybody knows HMO's limit physician autonomy and patient's access to health care. I believe Hillary has realized her mistakes(as she noted during a debate). I have also realized that the pot is not bottomlees. Physicians do have to do their part and practice effective and excellent medicine and and be fiscally responsible at the same time. It is hard and it is a challenge, but physicians will have to do their part.
All other comments about the insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies have a strong ring of truth. I believe that the democratic candidates are more likely to try to fix the problem than the republican candidates. Among the democratic candidates, Hillary is the most likely to win. I think Obama definitely offers new menus on the table (a refreshing wind of change and a chance to improve the political landscape -- a better America)but I am afraid he will not be able to stand the republican political machine at this time. Hillary -Obama 2008, 2012 and President Obama 2016 and 2020 looks like promising administrations that can tackle the problems facing the nation at his time. And it will take time to solve this problems.

Posted by: decider1 | August 10, 2007 5:33 PM | Report abuse

I suppose that the same people opposed to providing affordable health care for all Americans are also in opposition to Medicare and providing health care for life for all government workers and their spouses?

I am self-employed and now pay $500 a month for health insurance coverage that only pays 70% until I spend $7,000 in one year. Fortunately, at 47, I can still afford this. But my rates have been going up at 20-25% annually. I shudder to think of the possibility that we suddenly couldn't afford this while being too young for Medicare.

I wish people would start imagining what might happen to them if they had to buy their own health insurance coverage rather than attacking those who want to figure out a way to provide affordable health care.

Posted by: femalenick | August 10, 2007 5:24 PM | Report abuse

YEAH! I advocate socialized medicine- the alternative would be to take Wall street totally away from them, illegal to go public and sell stock in the corporations. Promote non-profit pharmas, hospitals, health care supply corps, insurance- no-profit everything health related. Corporations in this nation, accross the board, ARE NOT OUR FRIENDS PEOPLE!!!! We must get that thru our thick heads!!!

Posted by: swtexas | August 10, 2007 1:24 PM | Report abuse

YEAH! I advocate socialized medicine- the alternative would be to take Wall street totally away from them, illegal to go public and sell stock in the corporations. Promote non-profit pharmas, hospitals, health care supply corps, insurance- no-profit everything health related. Corporations in this nation, accross the board, ARE NOT OUR FRIENDS PEOPLE!!!! We must get that thru our thick heads!!!

Posted by: swtexas | August 10, 2007 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Actually, the scariest part of this article
to me, was learning that Hillary proposed
such power to the HMOs as her "plan" for
healthcare. Yikes! I think we all know how
much HMOs care about the individual.

If that is Hillary's healthcare plan,
no wonder she hasn't shared it with us.

Yet another reason to vote against Hillary.

Posted by: julieds | August 10, 2007 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Some people really need to catch up and WAKE UP. There are US insurance companies who are sending people to India and Mexico for medical care because it's cheaper. When you hit 50, your premiums can go as high as $1,000 month. You can pay into the free market system your whole life - and be shipped overseas, away from your family and any oversight board, at the whim of your precious free market fat cat. The same free market fat cats who have turned the credit industry upside down and are getting bailed out by the Feds as we speak. $300 for every US citizen, so far. Oh, but don't demand a system where every citizen pays $300 for the right to see a doctor, don't do that.

Posted by: office | August 10, 2007 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Is there a more devisive issue in America today? I doubt it. But for all the complaining, I haven't seen either side put up any real facts/numbers of how many Canadian's are coming to the US, and how many USers are going to Canada - nothing factual! No one's buying this ancetodal ("I have friends...") evidence crap. Come on, people, put up or shut up.

The only thing that both left and right wing nuts agree on is that they hate Hillary. But unfortunately, the only change in healthcare, if we do get one, will be a compromise in the middle that I'll bet both sides will hate. And Hillary is just the panderer to give us that compromise.

Look, I love capitalism as much as anyone, but it is not the answer to every problem, just most of them. But life and death issue just do NOT respond to market forces, because no one wants to die, and anyone will pay any price to avoid this ultimate fate.

So, until we come together in agreement on this issue, the investors in healthcare will be the only ones to profit. The 5% wingnuts on both sides will continue to drag the 90% of us down. WE are the real suckers.

Posted by: pwprl | August 10, 2007 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Medicare is not "socialized medicine" it is simply healthcare paid for by the government. The providers are not government employees (at least not federal employees) and there is a fair amount of choice in what providers one uses. Universal health care is not another term for socialized medicine.

The U.S. does not have the best health care system in the world--the eividence on that is clear. For instance our infant mortality rate-an important indicator of the strength of health care--is failurely high (we rank about 16 among industrialized natinos) and our overhead is much higher than in countries with universal (even "socialized") systems. Finally in every system, including the U.S., there is no waiting for emergency care and waiting for elective procedure.

John Epperson

Posted by: JohnEpperson | August 10, 2007 11:54 AM | Report abuse

You go girl! Give them hell.

Posted by: jjmicaiah | August 10, 2007 11:52 AM | Report abuse

She is dead wrong about healthcare in those countries. People in the know (not Michael Moore by the way) understand that America offers far superior healthcare than any of those countries. People have to wait FOREVER to get treatment in those countries and the treatment is FAR inferior to that provided by America's hospitals.

I agree that our healthcare system could definitely use some work but she is STILL wrong on this issue.

No amount of dancing around the issue on her part will change this fact.

Posted by: gthstonesman | August 10, 2007 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Do your homework people before commenting. You REALLY think Hillary Clinton is the one to be speaking on Healthcare? Or didn't you know she has been in the pocket of Pharmaceutical special interest groups for years? Please. Do your homework. Check out her chief campaign advisor Mr. Penn and his "other" job as head of a huge PR firm that has spent years preventing any intrusion on special interests, ie, health care industry and pharmaceutical companies, and then say you want Hillary Clinton to fix a broken healthcare system. She will let it go down to defeat like her failed last attempt. That was not just misguided planning she did, she deliberately sabotaged it. She isn't fit to run for dogcatcher, and since I am a New Yorker, I know how poorly she represents even the citizens of New York. Talk to those of us who know how this lady works and then spout your opinions.

Talk to the struggling families who go on the internet and buy their medications from Canada and who go without food so they can buy their medicine, then tell me the so "experienced" Senator Clinton can fix the healthcare system. She failed before and would do so again. And I have Canadian friends who don't have to go without to be able to see a doctor or buy their medicine. And her "righteous" slam at someone who dared to question her was downright condescending and is EXACTLY how she acts here in New York. That the common man is beneath her and how dare we question her? The mighty former first lady who claims her years as a spouse of a President as experience, Yeah right, experienced at covering up her husband's misdeeds. She has plenty experience there.

Posted by: francny | August 10, 2007 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Let's face the facts.
The cost of healthcare in the US is spiraling out of proportion to the funds available to pay for that cost. This is due to a combination of factors, including excessive profits by pharmacuetical companies, defensive medicine practiced by physicians because of fear of lawsuits, fraud by medical care providers, the demand for profit by healthcare company stockholders, and government mismanagement and waste, to name a few.
The next president who truly wants to address this problem would have to have the
will to face all these groups and bring them all together to solve the health care problem in this country. I believe Hillary, with her prior experience ( and given the frustration at the failure of her initial attempt when she was first lady), would be the president ho would sincerely try to fix this problem and have the best chance of succeding too.

Posted by: decider1 | August 10, 2007 9:53 AM | Report abuse

People People. The people I talk to in Canada, and they are a fair number, are happy as hell with the nation's health care system. They aren't whining and flocking to US borders to get the healthcare here that they can't get in Canada. This myth is a common bullet for the right wing.

It's amazing that the right wing even gets consideration politically in the U.S. They haven't had a good idea in two generations and the one idea they did have--using violence to deliver 'democracy' in Iraq--has been a rosy time for military families and Iraqi citizens.

If the right wing did not have its hands around the throat of big media entities--some media vehicles but not all--they would moot as a viable source of solutions to modern challenges. In a way, I'm glad they do have access to media because the more they open their mouths, the more out of touch they seem.

Posted by: Politicalpuck | August 10, 2007 7:55 AM | Report abuse

Liberals are as stupid as they are ignorant.

Posted by: upyursliberal | August 10, 2007 12:46 AM | Report abuse

I can tell that here in Australia we have had 'socialised medicine' for thirty years. Our current conservative government has decided its too expensive, (would rather spend it on buying US warplanes that we don't have the personnel to fly!) and so is slowly, but surely dismantling it.

It is a tragedy. We used to be able to go to our doctor and Medicare would pay for it. Our doctors were still happily rich and the poor (and middle class and rich) could get seen to. Now we have elderly people selling houses to pay for treatment - something we have NEVER seen before in Australia.

Our pharmaceutical drugs were $20 until our FTA with the USA - now they are $30 and the US pharmaceutical industry is still carping about it.

GO HILARY!Give Americans the health care they deserve, not the health care only the rich can afford.

Posted by: danielle | August 10, 2007 12:16 AM | Report abuse

Oh please. You speak of Canadians who come here for surgery. Well for each Canadian who comes here there's a hundred who'd go to Canada to to buy their medicine AND 5 who go to Mexico or Thailand to do their "elective" surgery.

At least the Canadians come here for "better" facilities. Americans go to Mexico and Thailand because they cant afford to go to a hospital in the US.

Posted by: frederickalfredo | August 9, 2007 11:23 PM | Report abuse

Congratulations to the person who stood up to Hillary. Just because you stand at the podium does not make you the smartest person in the room; just the person who collected enough money to buy the face time. I travel to Canada several times a year and have a few Canadian friends that have come to the states for their current health care benefits and plan on going home to collect the retirement benefits. Have another friend who is an orthodeic surgeon whose practice is made up of a LARGE number of Canadians who come to the States to have what is "elective" surgery that they have to wait stupid amounts of time to have the procedure. These people are not athletes or rich. They are your mom and dad or grandparent who can't walk. They spend their savings to come to the US so they can walk. Hillary tries the "I know more than you" beat down. She was all over "Universal Health Care" while her "husband" was letting Osama build his gang of killers on his watch. Revisionist history strikes again.

Posted by: dbath1215 | August 9, 2007 10:43 PM | Report abuse

I would like to point out that if Canadians are so happy with their health care, why do they come to the U.S. for treatment instead of waiting 6 months in Canada. If Hilliary thinks she isn't pro-socialism the only one she is fooling is pathetic liberals. She said just a few months ago she wanted to take money from oil companies to invest in alternative fuel; isn't that stealing? Oh thats right it's one step closer to socialism under Hilliary Clinton(Ron Paul is the only good candidate).

Posted by: jordanvaughn08 | August 9, 2007 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Good for you lady! And besides, where did this guy get this notion that people are 'pulling away' from national health care systems? I'd gladly remind people that France has a national health system and it ranks first in the world. Live for a while anywhere in a developed country and you'll realize the madness that is the American "free-market" health care model...
One Million Page Hits Against Dubya -

Posted by: concerntroll | August 9, 2007 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Actually, Medicare is "socialized medicine" but so what? (Just because taxes pay for it and some degree of choice is available doesn't disqualify it, does it??)

Neither "managed care" or HMOs are the answer nor is for-profit insurance. Taxes in lieu of premiums is a fair trade-off.

Posted by: michael4 | August 9, 2007 8:57 PM | Report abuse

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