The Trail: A Daily Diary of Campaign 2008

I could tell you what I saw. I could tell you what I heard. However, just like Bush voters in 2000, if you support Hillary the response will probably be "Not my Candidate, no way, never".

So, think about this. Both campaigns have made claims in the media. Only one campaign has pushed for an investigation to be carried out by the Nevada State Party.

Why is that?

I am writing to confirm the Nevada caucus debacle. I was a witness in a precinct in Las Vegas as an out-of-state observer. I personally reported to the hotline 2 separate infractions that included closing and locking the precinct doors early at 11:40 a.m. and not re-registering an Obama supporter/resident of the precinct for 20 years and excluding him from the caucus vote. When we arrived we were outnumbered by Hillary supporters 4:1, they first told us that we had to leave the precinct room as this was a Hillary room and Obama supporters had to go to another room, they told us to take down our signs while Hillary posters were everywhere. I insisted that if we had to take our signs down then they would also have to comply. The Hillary contingent then set up the registration table and proceeded to man the table controlling the entrance and dismissal of voters. The Obama voters did not stop at the Hillary table hence many of them did not have ballots for voting (we corrected that situation). Voters were sent away, of course not Hillary voters. My co-worker found out from a Hillary worker that he had travelled to Las Vegas because he was told by the Hillary campaign that he could get a free trip to Las Vegas. The 3 of us travelled from California to support the Obama campaign at of course our own expense. We walked into that precinct that morning with innocent eyes. We felt intimidated if not violated by the process, I can only imagine how the caucus-goers must have felt that day. We were expecting the voting process to be similar to what we see in California; dedicated elderly voter volunteers with no appparent party affiliation, checking the registration of their fellow voters. This was not the case. I had wondered previously whether the Clintons would be able to run a clean campaign, to my dismay this day showed us that they are no better than the Rovian political machine of the past 8 years. I know now along with my fellow volunteers that I could never vote for Mrs. Clinton. I wish that all of you could have experienced this first hand however I understand that you may have some doubts. Volunteer, get involved, make this democracy work for the people and not the superpowers that control our lives. On January 19th I got an education. I have been told not to go to the press with my account, because the Obama campaign doesn't want to get in the mud with this situation. The attorneys will handle the infractions as they deem best. I will leave it there and hope that all of you get involved. Don't be a by-stander.

hotnuke:

I am extremely offended that you would assume that frillymail was paid by the Obama campaign to post such a thing. I do not want to raise whole new issues on here, but I do want to confirm frillymail's story. On caucus day, I was someone who was taking calls from people at the caucuses, and I cannot say how many stories I heard of inappropriate behavior at the caucuses. One of them was this exact story: having to clarify the rules specifically laid down by the Nevada Democratic Party that were not followed by the Hillary supporters at the caucus.

I can in no way speak for Obama's campaign and am not attempting to do so, but from what I have witnessed, they are in no way attempting to say that the results are inaccurate and should be redone-- in no way are they trying to explain away their loss. Regardless of the turnout, the fact that voters, both Hillary and Obama supporters, were being disenfranchised is a huge deal that should be paid more attention than it currently is receiving. Please do not try to assume that people like frillymail are just making things up, because frillymail is not. Naturally I'm upset at Obama's loss, but I'm most upset about the fact that the Democrats did not do their duty in NV by providing organized and fair caucuses.

Christ, we sound like Republicans.

It's truly disappointing to read these many comments and see how fickle, how rude, and how feral some of these posters are. For seven years we've been on such a high and righteous horse while the Republicans had the conch. Now that we Democrats are in a position to get it back and right the world again, I don't know that we're going to do any better. I really don't.

We haven't even chosen a nominee yet and look at us.
Pathetic.

WP: For God's sake, hire a moderator.

"The elephant will trample you down and the donkey won't lead you anywhere." - Me

As a woman from Upstate NY, I can't support Hillary Clinton. As someone from Upstate NY (the part of the state that exists outside of New York City) I have no respect for someone so power hungry that they blatantly use a state as a mere stepping stone to the Presidency, with no real regard to the entire state. And as a woman, as much as I would love to see a female in office, I would like to support someone who displays some sort of woman empowerment. As a potential world leader, she can't break down and cry when things get tough, like she did in New Hampshire. Man or woman, you don't start crying in the public eye because a situation is hard to deal with. On top of that, she was publically humiliated by her husband and acted like nothing happened, just so she could get further in her race for the Presidency.

I would like to support a candidate who cares more about the country than the position they are trying to obtain.

I wish everyone posting would declare where they were on Caucus day in Nevada. I was an observer in three locations and spent all day sunday with lawyers from the Democratic party. I have never, in all my years in Democratic politics, seen the things I saw in nevada. From the top down, the Clinton campaign is guilty of disenfranchisement and in some cases, fraud, within her own campaign staff. Posting a bulletin to workers to close the doors thirty minutes early cannot be explained by any Clinton supporter. It's disgusting, un-American, and most of all sad. Have we as a party decided to play the game that Rove and Bush played in Florida and Ohio? If we have, good luck Hillary. I don;'t want a party like that.

Can someone please get hotnuke2007 to take his/her meds. Truth is truth and if hotnuke2007 can only relate with spelling explatives newly fashioned, then he/she is an idiot. Hotnuke2007 writes as if he/she is intellectually challenged, since all I can see that has been written by hotnuke2007 is hate-filled and ignorant comments. But, if that is the way the majority of democrats are, then gosh you guys will be losers in November.

The venom, accusations, and name calling in your posts serve only to highlight your lack of sufficient intelligence to engage in any serious discussion. It seem obvious from her description that frillymail1017 actually took the time to get involved in the process. For you, hotnuke2007, to diminish the effort, or even worse, to childishly call her or any candidate names makes no sense. I noticed that you do not offer your own accounting, nor even a report by someone who you know was there.

He who know little, can offer words which say even less.

I am somewhat of a Clinton supporter. In fact, I don't understand why people hate her so much. All of a sudden, "now" politicians are getting so "dirty," and "now" politicians are "playing to win," as if this has never happened before in the history of the United States. Whaaaaat? You guys obviously never cracked a real history book. Get a load of some of the political debates and speeches of the 1800s with all the mud-slinging back and forth and then come back and tell me politics have *become* dirty. I'll just laugh at you again.

So, in that light, Hillary's no worse than anyone else. She just happens to be a woman, and a woman with a good chance of winning at that.

I would love to see a Clinton/Obama ticket or Obama/Clinton, don't care which. But I don't know that I want to vote for Obama in the primaries. (I will, obviously, if he's nominated.) I'm sorry, but when someone complains about a female candidate "playing the gender card" or whatever the exact quote was, especially when he's a member of a minority group himself? Why would I vote for somebody who obviously has a problem with my gender?

There you go, for what it's worth. No vitriol and no death threats.

Hillary is a win-win for the GOP, either she can be taken down, or with Bill's chits and corporate connections, she'd be less pushing for any change. Remember that Bill could not manage anything critical to say about Bush in 2004 (ie promote the need for change), still can't. His friends Terry McAuliffe and James Carville undermined that win in many ways.

Bill wants a re-do, and the completion of plans set while still in the White House.

What upsets more than anything, is that Bill feels that his return to power was worth doing less in 2000 and 2004 than he could have to create this opportunity, and causing all that we've endured, in Katrina, because of that outsized ego. Not enough charm to make up for that.

However we feel about Hillary as smart and capable, she will not bring the change to Washington or the world. She could also suppress the enthusiasm and gains we've made as Democrats and split our party as well.

Brit PM Gordon Brown has declared the New World Order. Expect vast changes to civil rights and invasions of privacy.

The Brits are also planning to launch a new ID card next year irrespective of cost or actual practical benefit.

These US elections may also prove to be a huge farce. King George may well start, if not ww3, then an invasion of Iran that will prompt it.

Americans must check out Patriot Act 2 to find if he can delay the elections, impose martial law and keep his position as CIC indefinitely. If he has the backing of the military he will be immoveable. The q is could the military feel confident in invading Iran? Yes if they go nuclear.
This has never been ruled out as an option and in fact been advanced by senior Repub leaders.

then Americans have the cheek to call their leaders warriors... unbelievable.

This thread speaks volumes about the Obama campaign and Obama. His supporters are hateful, lying, racist scum. What else would he himself be.

The Nevada Democratic Party published their Official Rules, and also their official Handbook for caucus workers. They offered training. Every volunteer was supposed to follow the same rules.

Meanwhile, self-proclaimed Chief Operating Officer Hillary Clinton decided her campaign should write their own Handbook, based on their own interpretation of the rules. Did they compare the two Handbooks for discrepancies? Apparently not. Did they care? Apparently not.

This is what micro-manager control-freaks are like. It's always going to be her way or the highway. Haven't we all had enough of that? She claimed earlier "you have to hold people accountable every single day".

Oh really? So exactly what happened, Hillary? What should have been an exercise in democracy at work turned into a free-for-all. Who's responsible? Connect the dots.

sassooni-
If you are registered a an Independant, you can request a Democratic ot Republican ballot if you want to vote in the primary, at least in California. I believe this is the same nation wide.

Thank you Julie. Still haven't heard any of the Clinton supporters refute my earlier comments about their strong arm tactics, have you?

I WAS IN NEVADA.

I was volunteering in Nevada for the caucuses. (for Obama)

The Obama campaign was VERY strict about making sure we volunteers did not participate in any negative campaigning. We weren't allowed to say ANYTHING negative about Hillary (and i have alot of negative feelings toward Hillary i would have gladly shared). The Obama camp is SO insistent that nobody gets negative-

I DO NOT BELIEVE THE CLINTON CAMP'S ACCUSATIONS.
NEITHER SHOULD YOU.

I was there, ok? The Obama camp was adamant that none of their representatives went negative- not even the tiniest bit. The few of us who were allowed to watch the caucuses in person, weren't even allowed to talk to anyone at the caucus, just sit in the corner and observe. This all took a great deal of will power on my part, but i followed Obama's campaign rules, and i am VERY proud of the Obama campaign's dedication to running a positive campaign.

I know from first hand experience that the Obama campaign absolutely does not tolerate any form of negative campaigning or strong arm tactics.

Geez. Listen to you people. This isn't a game. We're not rooting for our favorite football teams. Do you really support a candidate that lies, misleads, and supresses voters to win? If the Clintons will lie to win, they'll lie to you in the White House. I'm for Obama. Name one lie from Obama. Go to factcheck.org. I found 3 misleading statements from Hillary. 1. her Iraq vote 2. Obama leaving 15 million out on Health care 3. Her vote on Iraq (trying to confuse it with Sen. Hagel's 4. Exagerating her claim on giving the national guard health care (they already had it). 5. Saying that Obama supporters would let a latino worker caucus in Nevada unless she caucused for Obama (They said she couldn't caucus unless she changed her voter registration from an Independent to Democrat (same rules applied across the board. Come on, don't go back and forth. Check factcheck.org. The website isn't affliated with any party but to inform voters. Let's not repeat the Bush thing again.

Obama is as white as he is black. Why would you want to support someone who stays married to a disbarred attorney, who is also an impeached president AND an admitted adulterer? The GOPS are hoping she gets the nomination. The days of whitewater, Vince Foster, Monica and other lovely incidents will resurface and she won't win. There are too many DEMS like me who will vote for ANYONE but her.

is sad to see a former president conduct himself in this way. The sense of entitlement that he honorobly fought against in 1992 is now engrained in his system. Power indeed corrupts.

People forget that Lewinsky scandal was not about sex but about lying and obstructing justice. He is veteran and yet Obama's freshness is working.

They have found a way to subvert the 22nd ammendment. What an example for the rest of the world: when you are constitutionally prohibeted for running anymore...get your spouse to run. From now on, being 1st lady will be used to get experience for the presidency. Nothing could be more damaging to our government.

What way? Defending himself and his wife about patent lies, like being racist?

Reality and truth hold a different version there buddy.

NYC98765 - your insight and honesty is refreshing. Many Americans are feeling the same. We supported WJC, but cannot support his wife. 28 years of two families in the White House is down right frightening. We are suppose to live in a democracy, not a dynastic dictatorship...

Posted by: frillymail1017 | January 20, 2008 09:28 PM

Oh, so you're perfectly ok with someone who throws the race card (admittedly, by Obama himself..regretting he "allowed his staff to raise the issue with media") and whose voting record is IDENTICAL to Hillary's as well as taking money from the same corporate donators?

So you're ok with a "black male" version of Hillary, as long as he doesn't have the Clinton name?

Oh What.Ever.

AndrewBellinger, I'm a Clinton supporter because Hillary is taking crap for something she very clearly did NOT DO.

You're obviously easily confused by reality, but I might as well try:
1)Hillary's comments on MLK and LBJ...the subject, "black vs. political maneuvering",a nd Hillary is white.
2)MLK and LBJ had to work in unison to get the job done; her point was dead on, and in no way lessened MLK's work, and if any thinking person considered it did for longer than 2 minutes after reasoning, well, that person's IQ is low.
3)A Clinton supporter (a black male), and I stress SUPPORTER, not staff...hinted at Obama's drug use.
4)Obama's actual staff raised the spectre of "racial overtones" simply because Hillary's comments involved a black male, MLK. Did you get that last part? OBAMA'S STAFF, smearing the Clinton's with insinuated racism. BS!!! Of course we're rabid, when the truth is so apparent..but yet Obama supporters, who throw around words like "hope" and "uniter" are ignoring truth; how can that be uniting?

I will never ever vote for Obama after this debacle, and Hillary/Bill once again taking heat for something that is so patently false.

Obama is black, but he's also a Presidential Candidate, and politician..above anything else; if he can't deal with the political criticism and continues acting like a victim, he shouldn't be running.

As far as strong arming blah blah, it's funny the complaints from Culinary Union members being "strongly driven towards" Obama aren't being spoken to by his own "rabid supporters."

You Dems. think you had it bad? Ha! Went to caucus in my Rep. precinct and had no chair. at all. 19 of us sat till 9:30 waiting. Finally, someone came with a packet and I became the Chair. We got through it, elected our delegates and alternates and each of us who were supporting someone spoke in their behalf. Then we voted, counted the votes in front of everyone, recorded and signed the voting envelope where the actual handwritten votes were place. On paper we found and cut to size. We had no ballots in our packet.

When we first arrived there were Paul,Romney, and McCain signs inside the caucus sight. No sign-in or ID check and no one to tell us which room our precinct was caucusing in. 400+ people milling around trying to figure out where to go.

We also found out, after being elected a delegate that it will cost us $35.00 to attend the County Delegate election. Then if we are elected at the County to go to the State, I expect it will cost a lot more. Also became privy to the information that the County Regulars have set up a following already so they will be elected to go to the State convention in April so they will be a shoo in for the National Convention. :} Am I surprised? Not at all. But do I think a regular primary is in order? Indeed I do!!

lylepink: Ever think the truth comes from those who have nothing to hide; those who are truthful. I haven't seen one blog herein from one Clinton supporter who was at a Nevada caucus site telling anyone these incidents didn't occur. I challenge those Clinton supporters in Clark County to tell us they didn't get special treatment from the DEM PARTY in southern Nevada...I challenge them to say they didn't get a manual that distorted how things were to be run...I challenge them to say they didn't go to their respective caucus sites early and intimidate anyone who didn't support their candidate. I challenge them to say they weren't intent on disrupting what was purported to be a democratic process. You won't hear them say a word. They know what they did, they know they behaved badly. They know they were wrong and they know if they had not strong-armed and misinformed the Clark County Caucus goers they would have lost Clark County the way they lost Northern Nevada.

Please remove hotnuke2007 from this forum. His ignorant, sophomoric rants have no place where civilized, intelligent people share ideas.

All of this misconduct by the Hillary supporters seem to be coming from the Obama supporters. Read my 11:04AM Post to get to the TRUTH.

I am a lifelong Democrat who lives in Northern California. I have served as president of a local Democratic club and a member of the Democratic State Central Committee. I went to Nevada for three days to assist the Obama campaign with its get-out-the-vote effort. I observed the caucus in Precinct 303 in the state capital, Carson City, held at Carson High School. Seven caucuses were held at that school. Early that morning, Clinton supporters placed signs outside the high school. The Obama campaign told us that was a rule violation, and to place no Obama signs outside. When we arrived at the caucus site at 10:30 AM, disciplined groups of Clinton supporters were already set up in all of the caucus rooms, and had hung large numbers of Clinton campaign signs. Of course, the Obama people responded by starting to hang our signs as well, though we had been told that wasn't allowed. We didn't even have masking tape with us. I do not know the precise rules for decorating the caucus rooms, but it seemed to me that the Clinton people were pushing the envelope, to say the least. Even so, the Obama campaign won Carson City handily.

Despite the well organized Clinton machine, Obama won 49% of the county delegates in the 16 counties of Nevada other than Clark County (Las Vegas), as opposed to 42% for Clinton. Obama won just about every city in Nevada other than the Las Vegas metro area. He won Reno, Sparks, Carson City, Lake Tahoe, Elko, Fallon, Winnemucca and Hawthorne. He won areas with virtually no African American voters, like remote Esmeralda County. There he beat Clinton 63% to 26%.

But Las Vegas is the 900 pound gorilla of Nevada. The national media tends to go to Las Vegas. Clinton won Las Vegas, so the national story is that she won the entire state. The good news for the Obama campaign is that he will get 13 national delegates as a result of these caucuses, as opposed to 12 for Clinton.

heaphy@aol.com

It is sad to see a former president conduct himself in this way. The sense of entitlement that he honorobly fought against in 1992 is now engrained in his system. Power indeed corrupts.

People forget that Lewinsky scandal was not about sex but about lying and obstructing justice. He is veteran and yet Obama's freshness is working.

They have found a way to subvert the 22nd ammendment. What an example for the rest of the world: when you are constitutionally prohibeted for running anymore...get your spouse to run. From now on, being 1st lady will be used to get experience for the presidency. Nothing could be more damaging to our government.

Bill's a slimeball.
------
Sent: Sat Jan 19 17:11:05 2008
Subject: RalstonFlash--Bill Clinton called Kirk Kerkorian last night on at-large caucuses

Sources confirm that the night before the former president was in MGM MIRAGE properties campaigning for his wife, he talked to reclusive MGM boss Kirk Kerkorian on the phone and raised issues about Culinary union tactics and how access would be granted to properties. Kerkorian apparently contacted MGM President Jim Murren, who then talked to the Clinton campaign about access today. And Hillary Clinton did well today at MGM properties.

True, the Clinton camp was extremely organized. Organized to distort the truth. Organized in tandem with the DEM party in Clark County as well. The problem is the Clark County DEM party had/has no business singling out one candidate this early. Getting assistance from the party prior to a nomination is unfair. I'm glad the Clinton manual shows just how far one group will go to ensure victory AT ANY COST. Too bad it backfired! Shameful X2.

Logic and critical thinking is a virtue.

It says clearly you must be signed in by NOON and that doors won't close until then. Given the unexpected turnout, if people were in line by 11:30 but weren't able to sign in by NOON (due to the length of the lines) they would not be denied access at NOON.

Anyone familiar with flying RyanAir in Europe will understand. Regardless of whether you are in line or not, they stop registering passengers exactly half an hour before the flight even if you are the next person in line.

With the Clinton manual stating that the caucus doors close at 11:30 they made stuff up. Nonetheless, they were much more organized than the Obama camp so it should serve as a lesson for the future.

The results of the Nevada Democratic caucus brings to mind Bill Clinton's remark about the events being a " Fairy Tale " like Alice in wonder land where Bill is the Cheshire cat, Edwards is the Mad Hatter, Obama is the card who painted the Queens roses and Hillary is the Queen of Hearts. Don't you see the drawing of the cards to determine the winner as a premonition of things to come? The 10 of SPADES, drawn for Obama, represents the card that painted the PRIZED ROSES to CHANGE the appearance of " CHANGE " and the QUEEN of HEARTS is the card drawn for Clinton that represents the kind of president we will have if she gets elected. ? Does " Off with his head " ring a bell?

P.S. Note that the booklet FROM the Democratic Party, as shown on the link in the article on abc.com, is decidedly different from the booklet the Clinton campaign provided, also in a link on the same article.

I personally was at a caucus site where an older woman walking with a cane was told she could NOT sit with her district or her vote would be counted for Clinton - the older woman is an Obama supporter. Shame on the Clinton Campaign! The only strong-arming and intimidation that I saw was coming from HER (not HIS, by the way) campaign.

Al has already said he won't run and by the way, OBAMA WON 13 DELEGATES IN NEVADA - CLINTON WON 12 - Who is the loser??? Clinton lost folks.

The only I care about is winning in November. Remember being the most qualified, experienced candidate is not necessarily the candidate that would most easily win.

I don't care whether Hillary or Barack wins but logic tells me if a candidate has enormous negatives like Hillary, that candidate should not be the nominee. Personally, I think both Obama and Hillary should step aside and let Al Gore run for he would be the candidate that would most easily win in November.

So, you all think Obama is the bad guy here calling foul. Not true. I contacted DEM HQ two hours after they said they needed caucus chairs in Clark County IN JULY 2007. The first thing I was asked was who I supported! Next I was told that my precinct already had a caucus chair and I could be the alternate! I asked who they had chosen and low and behold it was a Clinton supporter. I told the party I would run against that person at the caucus and left it at that. I attended caucus training in November and met with the DEM party caucus chair organizer, who told me I could run against the person the party had chosen. The chair organizer told me the party had picked people within the party to fill chair positions back in June, as a precaution. Just so you know the DEM party has been supporting Hillary Clinton since she decided to run. I spent most of November calling Dems in my neighborhood and on one call I got the response that went something like this, "Yes, I'm supporting Hillary Clinton and I am the caucus Chair." This was a person I had never heard of before. I called DEM HQ and was told that my precinct caucus chair had been changed. I told them I had gone to training and I was running for caucus chair. I asked if their new chair had contacted all 400+ DEMS in my precinct and knew where they stood because I had already done so. The chair organizer asked if she could call me back. A few minutes later she called and said, "***** has graciously decided to step aside since you have been working so hard. You can be your precinct caucus chair." I was then asked to help fill caucus positions in my assembly district. I went to DEM HQ and picked a list of all the precincts in my district and oh my, the key precinct positions were already filled with the names of CLINTON SUPPORTERS in ALL positions, chair, alternate chair, secretary, and volunteers. Please people. This caucus was meant to be Hillary Fest 2008 from the beginning. Shameful!

Apparently, the Obama Camp does have the proof. See the article below from ABC.com. Go check it out for yourself.

Getting tired of the old Clinton's 'sling the mud to see what sticks' - I vote for honesty and integrity...and the Clinton's aren't it.
Obama Campaign Takes Up Door Closing Times in Nev. -- Targets Clinton Campaign
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January 20, 2008 10:53 PM
ABC News' Sunlen Miller and Eloise Harper report: The Obama campaign held a conference call, Sunday, rehashing the caucus day events in Nevada. They claim that the Clinton campaign encouraged their operatives to close caucus doors at 11:30 a.m., which was a half hour before the noon deadline.
Obama campaign manager David Plouffe claimed that the Clinton precinct captains were given a bound manual by the Clinton campaign that said the registration deadline was 11:30, which is contrary to the manual supplied by the Nevada Democratic Party. The Obama campaign precinct captains did not carry special Obama supplied manuals -- they only had the Nevada Democratic Party's manuals. When asked why the Obama precinct captains did not speak up if they had an official manual with contrary information from the party, Plouffe demurred, and said that, because of the rushed times on caucus day, tensions were high.
The Obama campaign "claims" that they are not calling the final results of the caucus into question, rather, they are making sure this does not happen again. But their second conference call in two days on this matter, after an official campaign statement last night, clearly shows they are trying to at least cast doubt on Clinton's win.
The campaign will notify the Nevada Democratic Party, for a full review of this, to provide a full picture, and to collect relevant facts. The campaign has provided a page from the Nevada Democratic Party's manual, as well as the page from the Clinton manual, specifically discussing when door times close.
Both manuals are attached below:
NEVADA DEMOCRATIC PARTY RULES
THIS PROCESS MAY NOT BEGIN UNTIL NOON
In order to participate in the Nevada State Democratic Party Caucuses, attendees MUST be in line, or signed in, by noon. At noon, Presidential Preference Cards should be given to any person in line, and after that point, no Presidential Preference Cards should be given to any new arrivals, as they will not be allowed to caucus.
From page 8 of the Nevada State Democratic Party Caucus Day Guide.
THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN TOLD OPERATIVES TO CLOSE DOORS EARLY
From page 7 of the Clinton campaign precinct captain handbook.
11:30 am Deadline for registering (or standing in line to register) to participate in the Caucus.
Inside the Room
11:30 am Caucus Chair closes doors and announces attendance
Brief Democratic Party business (letters read, Permanent Chair elected).
The Clinton camp rejects these claims, saying that they don't have the authority to close the doors, and called Obama's accusations bogus. The Clinton camp is sticking by their assertions of voter intimidation -- and have filed complaints with the state party.
January 20, 2008 | Permalink | User Comments (1)
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"The Clinton camp rejects these claims, saying that they don't have the authority to close the doors, and called Obama's accusations bogus. "
Ok...am I the only one who sees, in the article above, the proof that Clinton Campaigners were told in their own handbook, to close the caucus doors at 11:30? But the proof is right there! How can the accusations be called 'bogus'? Little by little, I think Clinton is showing her true colors...and they don't look nice for the Democratic Party!

Posted by: NanD | Jan 21, 2008 12:54:30 AM

Good morning all...let me clarify a couple of things. First, Nevada caucus locations were to open around 10 to 10:30 and the caucus was to begin at 11:30. DEM Party told us that at 12 anyone still in line to register could caucus, but we should close the doors at 12 and begin the caucus process to determine viability. Between 11:30 and 12:00 we were to conduct preliminaries like reading the agenda, the letters all the candidates, and explain how the caucus math worked, etc. At noon we were to close the doors and determine viability, i.e., count all the heads in the room. We were told that no campaign signs were to be inside the caucus location, only plain white sheets of paper bearing the name of each candidate and affixed without tape (try that one folks) in various corners of the room. A group of Clinton supporters and my alternate chair apparently arrived at 7:30 and had their balloons and signs up when I arrived at 9:30. It took a police officer and School District official to get them to remove the signs BEFORE THE CAUCUS BEGAN. The first 50 people to arrive between 9:30 and 10:15AM were mostly Clinton supporters. Registration wasn't suppose to begin until 11, but I knew we were going to have a substantial turnout, so I had to registered people early, especially since that 50 or so arrived well before 10:15. What I did not appreciate was that Clinton supporters, including my alternate chair, chose to break the rules before the caucus began. The Clinton supporters were aggressive and arrogant when talking to anyone who was not a Clinton supporter, during the registration process. It is my understanding, from talking to people who attended other caucuses, that Clinton supporters told people who were arriving at other caucus sites that were not theirs TO GO HOME! The strong arming during registration was as follows: standing extremely close to people and watching over their shoulder as they signed or filled out a new voter registration forms, clearly intimidating them - it was disgusting. Invading one's personal space is a sign of aggression and these people seemed to have had a lot of practice! The upshot is that these arrogant people are my neighbors. The caucus attendees are all my neighbors and to see 1/2 of them act like school bullies was disheartening. There was no need to break the rules; no need to be mean and aggressive; no need to appear superior; no need to interfere and definitely no need to intimidate anyone who did not agree with them. The angry stance of the Clinton supporters at my caucus made for an extremely hostile environment. The other 50% of caucus attendees were baffled by their behavior, and many said so. The democratic process was tainted by a group of over-zealous, angry and downright mean people who were supporting Hillary Clinton. Why is it that they knew the rules and chose not to follow them? What were their motives? I just don't understand and the fact that they support a former First Lady of the United States is shameful. I want no part of them or her, if those are the kind of people Senator Clinton attracts.

Re: rarignac's comment.
In Exeter, NH, the sole poll watcher was from the Obama campaign. The Clinton campaign was told they could not have them inside the polling place.

Frilly is correct....100 percent correct!!! I was a temp/then permanent chair of a caucus in Clark County (Las Vegas) on Saturday. The same dirty tricks happened in both caucuses meeting at the elementary school where we were. The Clinton tactis were disgusting and were exactly as Frilly described. I came in that morning as a Clinton supporter as when I saw all the "dirty tricks" being played by the Clinton machine, I changed my vote to Obama. Hilary has spent most of her life as a housewife, other than her very early work in Arkansas and her time as senator for New York. The caucus cost the Clark County School District $300,000 for opening the schools on caucus day.....this while the District has a hiring freeze on for badly needed teachers.....that's the Clinton "machine" for ya.

Fed Up Grandma (who really has worked for over 35 years)

Re: rarignac's comment.
In Exeter, NH, the sole poll watcher was from the Obama campaign. The Clinton campaign was not they could not have them inside the polling place.

The Democratic establishment and Hillary supporters better get their act together. If this stuff keeps happening, THE REPUBLICANS WILL COME IN DROVES TO VOTE AGAINST HER AND THE OBAMA SUPPORTERS WILL STAY HOME.

Well, we know where "hotnuke2007" stands. Up to his/her eyeballs in "shiite. He/she is the kind of American we want on any side, just to show the level of intelligence who makes the most noise, NOT.

Well, at least this gives me some good questions to ask at the caucus convenor training this week. Since we are preparting for our caucuses on Feb 5, this let's me know some of what both campaigns may be trying to do. Trying to bend and/or completely dismiss the rules is nothing new at caucuses in either party at this part of the cycle. What is most disturbing is that once again we Democrats are proving that the Republicans don't need to work to win, they can depend upon us to rip ourselves so badly we lose, reagardless of what they do.

Isn't it obvious that it's time to get rid of caucuses? The possibility of intimidation and manipulation is too great with the caucus system. People who are shy about revealing who they support, or afraid of retailiation, or unable to be at the caucus site during the short time allowed, are disenfranchised.

States should have primaries, with the polls open for the usual hours (6am to 9pm in many places); absentee ballots, and most importantly, secret votes.

The angry posts from both Clinton and Obama supporters worry me. The caucus system seems to create this kind of personal hostility. As a Californian, I have already voted via absentee ballot. Perhaps Nevada should use a primary.

To the partisans on both sides, I offer this reminder: Hillary and Barak are NOT enemies. The enemy is Bush and the Repubs who want to walk in his footsteps. ANY of the Dems would be preferable to any of the Repubs.

Remember what the goal is: a Democrat in the White House in '09.

"Accuse you opponent of doing what you are doing so you will know what you ar doing."

It's a shame that the Obama campaign can't go on and move on. They lost, that is the bottom line - take the high ground and go on. But no, Obama has taken the road of a crybaby and somebody that cannot take the heat. This is a presidential campaign, this is not high school. You are going to be attacked, scrutinized, critized- that's how campaigns are won. Bill Clinton is doing the same as any good politician would do. There has not been any nastiness like the "swift boat" attacks on Kerry - now that was real nasty. The Clintons have not done that - they are simply running a good, effective campaign. Remember, it is the Obama endorser who ran a radio campaign that accused Hillary of being "shameless" and not respecting Latinos - now that is nasty and it clearly backfired. Believe me if they would have won, Obama would not be on T.V. crying and whining about how Bill Clinton is attacking him - poor baby!
What Obama has done, is made himself look weak and pathetic because he can't take the heat from the Clintons, and because he is black everybody should not touch him! He is the attack do now and it does not bode well with his campaign of hope and unity. He should have stayed above the fray and moved on to SC. He blew it! He isnow running as a black candidate that can only get the black vote because it seems that is the only votes he's getting so far - at least in the last 3 contests.

Here is Obama's own campaign web site's instruction stating 11:30am. What a sour loser.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/nv_caucus_center/
Click Step by Step.

Here is Obama's own campaign web site's intrucation stating 11:30am. What a sour loser.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/nv_caucus_center/

I have spent years defending Bill Clinton, both during his presidency and afterwards. Now, with the disgraceful way he is manipulating Obama's statements, through using incomplete quotes and out-and-out misquotes, I have no more slack to cut for Bill. He has always been a liar, but, somehow, I tried to look past his lying problem because (1) his lies were about personal matters, such as his cheating on his wife, and (2) I believed that he was out fighting for the middle and lower classes. In fact, when I now look back on Clinton's record, I see Clinton as a politician who consistently co-opted the Republicans' issues, such as welfare reform, to remain in power, and that he, in reality, did nothing for me and my economic peers. His presidency was all about himself. Now, in this election, he is doing and saying ANYTHING, including OUTRIGHT LIES, to get his wife elected. It's about his wife, but, mainly, IT'S ALL ABOUT BILL TRYING TO GET BACK TO THE WHITE HOUSE. BILL CLINTON IS A DISGRACE, HIS WIFE IS EITHER 100% COMPLICIT OR CAN'T CONTROL HIM (EITHER WAY SPELLS BIG TROUBLE). BILL CLINTON WILL GET NO MORE SUPPORT FROM ME, HIS LEGACY IS NOW PERMANENTLY TARNISHED, AND I AM NOW GOING TO POUR 100% OF MY SUPPORT TO BARACK OBAMA, a modern-day DAVID going against the tag-team Clinton GOLIATH!!!

I doubt very seriously hotnuke is a HRC supporter at all. Look at the time stamps folks. The whole exchange stinks of a set up. frillymail1017 is accusing Clinton supporters of suppression/intimidation and hotnuke conveniently fulfills that role. It stinks of someone trying very hard to make an impression that Clinton and her supporters are evil and will do anything and I doubt very much that's the impression a genuine Clinton supporter would want to leave. How about we leave all of this to our real enemies, you know the GOP propaganda machine (Rush Limbaugh and company) that invented the idea that the Clintons were ruthless and power mad?

It's a sad day when so-called democrats are using right wing talking points to attack one another.

Bill Clinton's latest actions are in-fitting for a past president. While I had hoped that he would become the next Jimmy Carter with a significant positive post-presidential career, it appears that Bill Clinton will do anything to put his wife in the white house. Including lowering himself to distortion of facts and manipulation of the political process. So, I am greatly saddened.

If Hilary Clinton's campaign continues in this way, we will be forced to choose between a demoncrat of questionable ethics (Clinton) or a republican of questionable ends. A difficult choice for a democrat indeed.

Any and all of you who know about Clinton dirty tactics and can back them up should report these incidents to a National Media Source. The Clinton 'dirty tricks' are just beginning and they are going to pale when compared to Carl Rove's tricks. Obama can only do so much because he'll be portrayed as just another sore loser instead of an honorable man. Our country deserves better. A Clinton Presidency will be a nightmare because of the divisivness it will cause.
Anyone witnessing 'Rovian tricks' must document and report them immediately and persistently to the media. Eventually, the story will come out, but hopefully it will be before and not after the primary/election when it is too late.

Frilly, don't you feel like an @ss?

look at what you said, then lookat the picture.

It's the Obama campaign doing what you accuse the Clintons of doing.

LMAO

You said:

The Party rules dictated no campaign signs inside our caucus sites and advised us to arrive around 10 or 10:30, noting the venue would be open at 9:30. I arrived at 930AM and found "Clinton Central" - signs, balloons, food, etc. had been placed just inside the doorway of the caucus site.

which idiot said this
'In New Hampshire, the Clinton campaign prevented Obama field workers from conducting their get out the vote effort by having them illegally excluded from polling sites.'?

you CAN"T campaign in the voting area, and Obama was tryiing to have more than the allotted poll workers in the building.

Obama's going for the 'I'm a victim of racism' vote and you're too stupid to read what really happened.

Obama, professional cry baby.

He's so bush-like (praising Ray-GUN, suing, refusing to concede when the people don't want him) that he should change parties.

nysteveo2, I agree with Sen Clinton's position on Social Security, which I understand to be: SS is sound, if there is a crisis, it is in general fiscal irresponsibility, and engaging on SS only legitimizes a GOP obsession with undoing the program. I also believe any Democrat who doesn't emphasize the distinction between the relative fiscal conditions of Medicare and SS whenever the topic is raised is doing us a disservice. I also believe Obama's "donut hole" plan you mentioned above will weaken political support for SS by providing its opponents a rhetorical weapon based on a substantially increased "transferral" aspect, undermining the "in it together" nature of the program that's ensured its popularity these last 70 years.

Obama's claim about rules in Nevada is wrong:

The Obama statement says that the Nevada Caucus cutoff time was noon. I went to the Nevada Caucus Official Rules and all the rules say that the cutoff was 11:30 AM.

It's here:
http://www.nvdemscaucus.com/images/draftdelselupdated_oct2007l.pdf

Page 9: "The caucus will be called to order by the temporary Chair at 11:30 a.m. At that time the Temporary Chair will announce the caucus rules...."
"By 12:00 p.m. the Permanent Chair will determine viability..."

Page 53:
"Doors will open at 10:30 a.m. due to anticipated attendance..."
"NSDP staff will call the Caucus to order at 11:30 a.m. If attendees are still in line at 11:30 a.m when the Caucus is called to order they will be allowed to sign in and participate in the Caucus. (This rule applies to all Caucus sites throughout Nevada.)

Check the Caucus rules:
http://www.nvdemscaucus.com/images/draftdelselupdated_oct2007l.pdf

hoo_ya writes: I am curious if Obama's supporters know this, and are willing to pay the extra taxes.

You have Obama's Social Security proposal all wrong. What he has proposed is that the SS be taxed up to 92K as it is now and then exempt paying taxes on it until one made over 200K, a donut hole if you will.Ms Clinton's campaign has incorrectly called it as an increase on middle class tax payers. In fact, the only increase would be on individuals making over 200K a year. And for the record, Senator Clinton has not yet made any proposal on what she would do to address any potential shortfall in Social Security.

I heard that Clinton's ground staff is very experienced while Obama's team is relatively new. This might be the case in NV. I am seeing hatred between the two camps now, good or bad? You can judge yourself. Believe or not, other candidates will gain the most.

It's not the time for my state to vote yet, and I have not settled down on any candidate. But I would suggest everyone to read more about the candidate's proposals.

I am a little concerned about Obama's payroll tax proposal, which will increase the exemption limit from $97,500 to $200,000. It seems that Clinton opposes this tax increase. I am curious if Obama's supporters know this, and are willing to pay the extra taxes.

Thanks!

sjbj2322 your attacks on Obama especially with regards to his family is callous and shameful. He met his father only once in his life as a young boy and you are faulting him for accepting a football?

Did you not read/listen to the stories of how his mother would tell him how "great and wonderful" his father was in order to boost his confidence and self-esteem when he was child?

How did he "squash his mother's image again?" He has repeatedly given credit to his mother and grandparents for raising and making sure he excelled in school. He repeatedly says the government alone cannot educate a child. You probably get mesmerized by his oratory skills that you do not listen to the words. Reading the text of his speeches should help.

He talks candidly about parents and black fathers taking greater responsibility for their children.

Demand a refund for you master's degree if you do not learn about the impact and legacy of the Civil Rights Movement. We are all indebted to the sacrifices of those who marched, sang, and disobeyed.

Your arrogance is unbelievable. With a Harvard law degree in hand he turned down offers on Wall Street to go work for much lower pay helping the poor in Chicago. And you have the audacity to say that all he cares about is himself?

And to drag in his paternal grandmother into this, is beneath the pale. How condescending of you to call her home a hut.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20080108/kenya-obama/

I say with confidence and clarity that his mother and his grandparents would be extremely proud of him and the manner with which he has carried himself in the last few years. Even if he loses, he has already changed the Democratic party if not America. Your candidate might win this election at the expense of a generation of future voters. His grandmother in Kenya just like millions of people around the world stand proud and inspired his words, actions, and candidacy.

There are millions of us with similar backgrounds and similar visions of a better world waiting for an opportunity to lead. It is time for a new generation of leaders.

He is not simply talking about bringing all kinds of people regardless of race, gender, ideology or creed he is doing it. He has already done it. State by state, county by county in campaign offices all over the country and over the internet.

Never has a non-establishment candidate been this successful. He is single handedly competing against a two term president and a first lady. Without hope, there would be no Obama.

My only beef with the question of "experience" is if we are going to count what a candidate has done as a private citizen, that standard should apply to all. It clearly has not because Hillary's "official" political career began in 2000 yet we are supposed to accept her actions including her campaigning for Goldwater in the 1970s.

A laundry list of organizations and committees you were members of is really meaningless.

I agree that more attention should be given to the implications of the presidential race on congressional, state, and local elections. That is why you see a number of Democrats from "red states" endorsing Sen. Obama. Not simply because of the fear of a Hillary ticket but the promise and possibility of creating a new "governing majority" in a more progressive political landscape.

You may be a mother but you are also coldhearted and misguided. Don't vote for the man if you do not want to--but keep your garbage about his family to yourself.

For the person above who cried out for a decent support of Hillary to speak up, here I am. I believe she is the best choice for 2008.

I disapprove of hotnuke2007's awful and evil mouth. He should be blocked.

However I will say one thing. I notice that in both of Hillary's wins (I'm not counting Michigan) supporters of her opponents have claimed her team used fraud to win. I note that when Obama won Hillary's supporters accepted the result.

Be graceful in losing. Then step up to the next contest and do your best to win. But don't blame the referee or the process or some conspiracy for your loss.

Obama may well win the nomination yet: I will be disappointed because I feel his time is 2012/ 2016. But if he does it will be becuase he has won the Democratic COnvention, not because of voter irregularity.

THE SAME WILL BE TRUE FOR HILLARY. Stop trying to portray it otherwise. Whatever you think of her, I believe the Democratic Party will not allow itself to descend to the level of the 2000 Republicans. I believe the Clinton team is fighting hard, but fighting fair. Let's all do that, and show the Right how to be truly democratic.

Frilly,

Thank you for reporting on the irregularities you witnessed firsthand at your precinct caucus. many of your observations were similar to those of another caucus volunteer whose post I linked to in another thread earlier today::

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/19/162953/644/790/439573

I'm wondering now if the similarities were coincidence, or if they are instead evidence of a concerted campaign by the Clinton camp to deprive many Nevadans of their right to vote. There seems to be a definite pattern emerging.

As I've stated before, I'm a lifelong Democratic activist and an Obama supporter, and I was until recently prepared to put aside partisan differences and support Hillary if she manages to win the Democratic nomination. But after watching the slimy tactics that the Clinton camp has been using to gain the nomination at any cost, at this point I can see myself voting for McCain this fall if it comes down to a Clinton-McCain contest. If another Republican is running against Hillary, I'll most likely write in Obama. But I will not reward the Clintons for deliberate corruption of the electoral process with my vote. Then I'd be no better than the GOP voters who voted to re-elect Bush in '04. They knew better, but they stuck with a person who shamed their party anyway. If we want to keep claiming we're more ethical than the GOP then we'd better start backing up our words with actions.

HI!
I, also was an Edwards supporter who almost left in disgust.
This caucus was ugly. Hillary supporters were overbearing and downright nasty at my precinct. They did not allow uncommitteds to move to any candidate they thought would come out "unviable" while the other precinct in our room allowed them to do so.
I had no problems with the Obama people.
I just had to add my voice after seeing the horrid posts from "hotnuke". I also will not vote for Ms Clinton. While I really liked her husband as president, I find it unsettling that as she wants to be the "first woman elected president"....she is having Bill do the fighting for her. It makes me wonder who the "Clinton" president would be. Would it be Hillary???
Or is it just a de-facto Bill Clinton 3rd term.
Besides, I just cannot deal with more years of bickering....and the idea of more Clinton "drama" is more than I care to share.
If we Dems want the White House back...(and I think it is desperate that we obtain it), then the last person we want to nominate is Hillary. She makes Republicans go crazy and they will come out in droves just to do her in. Add to that the number of persons in her own party who are unwilling to vote for her....and we will be handing over the White House keys to John McCain or (heaven forbid) Rudy.

Well, I asked my cousin to tell me honestly who was worse. He said, "Clearly, Team Hillary."

He was one of the Edwards supporters you heard about, who left in disgust - without caucusing.

No, I will not vote for Obama for a number of reasons beginning with the lip service he offers as being an agent of change for all - regardless of race, sex, or creed. As a mother, I can't believe that anyone would support someone who had such blatant disrespect for the sacrifices made by his single mother and grandparents who went out of their way to make opportunities available for him only to have him squash their image in exchange for memories of a football given him by his delinquent father. A football!! Then to hear a pastor today say that MLK made it possible for Obama to be where he is today. NO, his mother and grandparents - White mother and grandparents made it possible for him to be where he is today. Yet to whom does he spray such devotion and compassion toward. His poor old grandmother in Kenya who lives in a hut. Why is the grandmother of a US Senator earning six figures living in a hut. OH - because she's not his grandmother but his STEP-grandmother so its really not his place to have to help her out now is it.

On another note - for those who question Hillary's 35 years of experience....don't be so lazy - its all there in writing. All the things that she has devoted her life to trying to accomplish. So she didn't get a healthcare plan passed. Give me a break. Have you forgotten it was a Republican dominated congress that made that impossible. She was working for the cause of others before Obama ever had a thought of doing anything for anyone but himself. Then again, I could be wrong about that one yet.

The truth of the matter is that it won't matter if its Hillary or Obama if there isn't equal emphasis placed on maintaining the Democratic balance in the House and Senate. But don't listen to me....I'm just one of those low-income uneducated supporters of Hillary who happens to have a Masters in History and Political Science.

As for the debacle in Nevada. I absolutely do not approve of some of the tactics I've read about but I also did not approve of the roboads put out by Obama or the absolute circus atmosphere I witnessed at some of the caucus sites by Obama supporters that made it darn near impossible to get an accurate count without having to go through the process six or seven times. It was televised so anyone who watched it can attest to it having occurred. Get rid of the circus caucus system that your state finds cheaper to operate than providing individual polling stations and you won't have as much to whine about. That's what we have in our state and so far I haven't heard anyone cry foul about any of our elections.

I agree, Obama needs the hispanic vote to win California for sure. I hope all hispanic voters will look beyond race and listen to what Obama says. He has 11 years of experience helping the poor and disenfranchised, with great success. I know he'll be their champion because he believes in and is living proof that the American Dream can be attained. I leave you now and will check back tomorrow...may the debate continue.

Thanks frillymail. Well said Esther624. All I would add is that as a fellow minority with a similar background to Obama, we should not support simply because he is a minority.

Ever since Bill blasted the media for not "vetting" Obama they have taken all of the attacks of the Clintons as gospel.

They bought the storyline that his war stance was a "fairy tale" as fact. They reported their distortions of Obama's comments about Reagan without any context. His admission of not being good with paperwork was seen as incompetence.

No one, including Obama (which I find troubling) has challenged Hillary on her claim that she has 35 years of "experience making change."

She is asking the American people to count everything she has done since the age of 25 (1973) as her qualifications but when it comes to Obama they want the clock to start in 2005.

Her days at Yale are more valuable than Obama's days as a community organizer in poor Chicago neighborhoods. Her days at a law firm in Arkansas is more valuable than Obama's work as a civil rights attorney and 11 years of lecturing of constitutional law at the University of Chicago. His 11 years of elected office where he was accountable to his constituents is meaningless compared to her 8 years as 1st Lady and 7 years as a senator.

I drove 5 hours to St. Louis from Indiana on Sat. to volunteer for Obama knocking on doors in the frigid cold after months of being begged by a classmate. It sucked because so many people were not home and those who were didn't give a damn. On my way back I was convinced it was one-time deal especially after hearing the news out of Nevada.

But after reading the speech he gave today in Atlanta, I am going back on Sept. 2 to knock on doors before Super Tuesday. I won't be able to live with myself 20 years from now if I don't.

As a graduate student in international politics I have a heavy dose of cynicism when it comes to politicians and leaders. I am not idealistically naive and I actually understand how the presidency works. Without HOPE and a vision nothing will change but the furniture in the White House.

For me and I suppose millions of others like me, this is a defining moment. This is the general election. If Democrats cannot give him a fair shake, forget it.

If he doesn't win, I'll be back to my old cynical self and hopefully get rich studying and writing about poverty, inequality, terrorism, genocide, and war.

Cheers.

The Hispanic Vote for Obama in Nevada was way too low. Hispanics should join Obama and say "Hispanics with Obama all the Way". We must.
I just read Obama's rousing speech at Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta. Another deeply motivational speech, and my personal tragedy is that due to my disability I cannot participate fully in this movement. I feel that all Hispanics should join Obama. Obama's future is ours to achieve. As a minority, we must follow him. If he wins the battle his/our movement is striving for, we must imply that some day, not far in the future, one of our Hispanic leaders can also reach that objective. We must join forces with him, we must take him to victory. We must remember that as Hispanics, we tend to be apathic to politics. Politics in Latin American countries is so corrupted, some of us came here searching for cleaner and better politics, and we are somehow unhappy with the present situation in this great country, which in many ways is just as corrupt as the countries our parents or we left behind. We must change the United States of America, we must help Obama change the world, and hope for a better a brighter future. Remember, QUERER ES PODER, is a popular Mexican phrase. A translation would come short of the meaning implied when people use this phrase. Because wishing for something is not enough, we have to work for that something, before we can achieve success. So, we could say. SI QUEREMOS Y NOS ESFORZAMOS, PODREMOS. which translated would be: "IF WE WISH AND STRUGGLE, WE CAN'"

Obama can open the door for people with dreams, exptecations and hope.
We must make an effort to have our voice heard.
Hillary will not carry our voice to Washington. She will forget the Hispanic voice as soon as she gets her husband back in the White House. He will be the power hiding behind her skirts. He has deminished his image so much, many of us don't consider him as we did a year ago. That which he represented is gone for every.
Hispanics with Obama all The way. Let us work and fight to help him get us there.
Arriba Obama! SI SE PUEDE, SI SE PUEDE. SI QUEREMOS Y NOS ESFORZAMOS, PODREMOS.

Dear NV volunteer. I know the party was ill prepared for the caucus, and overwhelmed as well. I take issue with the process of choosing caucus chairs and alternates. Rather than put out a request to all campaigns the party chose to first fill key precincts with Clinton supporters in ALL positions. Then, just a few weeks before the caucus did they ask for any assistance in filling positions. They kept the whole thing under wraps. The biggest problem between July and December was if a campaign shared ANY information with the party that information was passed directly to the Clinton camp! The party was and is biased toward one candidate. That kind of support should not exist at the party level until a nomination is made.

The 5 caucuses that occurred at my location followed the time line fairly well. The Clinton supporters were on sight as early as 7:30AM and their constituents began arriving as early as 9:30AM. Registration began long before 11. The first 50 or so "neighbors" that arrived were all Clinton supporters. Most seemed aggressive and belligerent. They came in that way and certainly left that way when they didn't win! Our last registrant arrived at about 11:45 and our caucus began right at 12. We were done by 12:40. The problem seemed to be that the Clinton supporters conveyed that air of inevitability and when they saw an almost equal number of people show up who didn't support their candidate, they got angry. As I said, our precinct was split, thanks to the Edwards supporters who not only weren't viable, but who chose to realign rather than leave. The other interesting note is that those who had caused the ruckus at the start were some of the first out the door. Methinks was sour grapes.

Also I'll say from my experiences volunteering with the Nevada State Democratic Party over the last few weeks, I really think that the party was trying to manage a fair, open and participatory caucus. I can see why frilly might suspect that the party was in cahoots with Clinton, but I really don't believe this was the case. I think the party was overwhelmed and a bit under prepared and the Clinton campaign was more successful in using this to their advantage.

Nevada has never done this before. We've never had this level of attention in our caucus. We've never seen this level of campaign organization around a caucus. The party just wasn't prepared for the level of participation or for the sort of tactics that the campaigns employed.

While, unfortunately conduct by the campaigns--the Clinton campaign in particular--soured the experience of many caucus goers, I do think that in the end the participation and interest is good thing for the party in Nevada.

I hope that some of you Democratic footsoldiers for either campaign will at least CONSIDER voting McCain if he's the Republican nominee. As an independent, I truly feel that he's the best candidate for the job from EITHER party.

I just want the hatred and power grabbing to stop. I have seen too much of it in my lifetime and I don't want my grandchildren to have to endure it in their lifetime. We have a mess on our hands people. We have to take a stand. We have to stand up and say NO MORE. We are intelligent and patriotic and not a one of us would put up with this nonsense if it were in our family. Why in the world are we tolerating it in our political system?

I was a volunteer in the Nevada State Democratic Party call center in Las Vegas on the day of the caucus. We were getting information from the temporary chairs around the state.

Up until Saturday, I was split between Clinton and Obama, but was leaning slightly for Clinton because of concerns about what substance was under Obama's laudable ideals and rhetoric. After Saturday, I can't vote for Clinton. The way the Clinton campaign behaved in Nevada was disappointing at the least.

There were definitely scattered reports of overzealous supporters and misconduct from all sides, but the reports regarding Clinton precinct captains around the state were very consistent and strongly suggest coordination by the campaign.

In one call, a temporary chair--a volunteer that had been trained by the party to run a caucus meeting--broke into tears recounting the shameful way that she was treated by a Clinton precinct captain with incorrect information on what time registration was to close.

Hillary Clinton is an extremely savvy political operator. And maybe what we need in November is someone who is able to pull out all the stops in order to win. But after the shameful way her campaign acted in Nevada, she just isn't the sort of person I want in the White House.

hotnuke2007 certainly seems like an unbiased source.... I wonder how much Ms. Clinton's campaign pays its workers?

Anyway, frilly, your story is very interesting, thank you for sharing, and frankly, it's not very surprising, knowing the Clintons. I am an independent and a McCain supporter, but I am fully prepared to vote for Obama if McCain does not get the GOP nomination.

If it comes down to some douchebag like Mike Huckabee or Mitt Romney vs. Hillary Clinton, I may have to shoot myself. Hillary's gotta do a lot more to win my vote than her machine's done so far.

I attended the NV caucus in Las Vegas and I concur with frillymail. If I didn't know any better I would have thought I was at a Clinton rally. The party chairs who were obvious Clinton supporters did everything they could to keep the Obama supporters in the dark the worst of which was telling people they couldn't come in after 1130 when in actuality it was Noon.

I attended the NV caucus in Las Vegas and I concur with frillymail. If I didn't know any better I would have thought I was at a Clinton rally. The party chairs who obvious Clinton supporters did everything they could to keep the Obama supporters in the dark the worst of which was telling people they couldn't come in after 1130 when in actuality it was Noon.

Thank you RomanolePoliticien

Although I am no supporter of John McCain your words speak volumes.

I am not at all surprised to read of voter manipulation by the clintons. As an independent voter I am keenly aware of the differences between the parties and within both of them. Obama is my first choice and it is unfortunate I can't vote for him in NY because I'm an independent and it is too late to change my registration for this election. (only registered democrats can vote in the democratic ny primaries).

I wont address hotnuke's garbage. However, Pathenry, I strongly disagree with what you are saying. There is more than one republican I'd prefer to see in office over Hillary Clinton. Actually, I'd prefer to see any republican in office over a Clinton. If by some miracle she wins the nomination, even crying wouldn't get me to vote for her in the general election.

Americans have had enough of the Clinton's manipulation in the 90s. They are dishonest and their politics is disingenuous. Seeing the way they bend the truth into outright lies over and over again makes me want to scream.

"AHHHHHHHHHHHHRGH! %^&*$"

As a liberal that is not blindly beholden to a political party, I would rather have McCain as president over Hillary for one simple reason: this country is supposed to a democracy not nepotistic plutocracy.

I will not be complicit in putting a president who has already served two terms back in the White House. In a country of 300 million people, I cannot even begin to understand how we as country cannot tap into the ingenuity and creatity of this country.

Let us screw up in 2008. It might serve us a better in the long run rather than set a dangerous precedent where offspring use their parents to become POTUS and wives use their husbands to become Commander-in-Chief (in just 8 years!)

Do all of you Clinton haters ever stop to think that they actually care about the country first and foremost?
I seem to remember that Bill had this country in great shape, states getting back money from the Governmaent due to surpluses,something this current administration has no clue about. So before you go off and make them seem like the worst thing that could happen to this once great country,remember the last time it WAS great, a Clinton got it that way. With true conservatism,putting competent people in the right positions,and truly looking out for this country before themselves,irregardless of what the profiteers say about them. I would like to hear from ONE Clinton hater and tell me that they had it bad when Bill was President. As far as the repubs running,all they talk about is cutting more taxes and taking on straw terrorists,wherever they may be,without explaining how they plan to pay for all of it.PURE REPUBLICANISM!

I have a constituent who is not supporting Hillary Clinton and who went through training to be her precinct's caucus chair. When she went to get her caucus packet she was told it had been given to someone else. I know of a duplicate story in another precinct. Those who dig for the truth will find it. And as for voting DEM just because...if Hillary Clinton gets the nomination I will not vote for her. Anyone who uses the party they way the Mr & Mrs Clinton did in NV do not deserve my vote.

Frillymail --
Thanks for clarifying the two outsiders' affiliations. I understood from your first post that your Alternate Chair was knowingly and purposefully not doing her job Saturday morning, and that the Clark County Democratic Party had done all it could to rig the caucuses, and I find it all contemptible. John Edwards' anger is right on, in my book, and the only thing I don't understand is why it is commented on in a negative way. Why aren't we all angry?

dbourdeau: Why must all accolades be given within ones own party. Ronald Reagan accomplished some good things. Bill Clinton rode Reagan's economic coattails to a balanced budget. Most of the long-term decisions made by a president don't come to fruition until 10 years after that president is out of office. Hence it's just about 10 years after Bill left isn't it and you all want his wife to win this year? Oh no, please no.

I can't believe that NONE of you bothered to check the Official Rules before screaming at each other! The Nevada Democrats official site links to the official Caucus site which includes:
http://www.nvdemscaucus.com/images/draftdelselupdated_oct2007l.pdf
I don't know why the name is draft instead of final, but that's all that's there.

The main section (p. 9) gives a noon cut-off time. Appendix C (for at-large caucuses) gives an 11:30 cut-off time and claims it applies to ALL caucuses. Now re-read that carefully. (following are the actual clips)

Subsection B: District-Level Delegates and Alternates
3. The January 19th non-binding presidential preference caucus will open it's doors for registration at 11:00 a.m. (with the exception of at-large caucuses) and be conducted in public venues and with limits on the amount of time allowed for
candidate debates so that each caucus may be run efficiently and participants time respected. Caucus registration will remain open until viability is determined by 12:00 p.m.

Appendix C: At-Large Precinct Caucus Rules and Procedures
The Apportionment of delegates for the At-Large Precinct Caucus
• Doors will open at 10:30 a.m. due to anticipated attendance expected at the At
Large Precinct Caucus sites.
• NSDP staff will keep a running count of each eligible Caucus participant as they
enter the At-Large Precinct Caucus. After the doors close, there will be a final
count of eligible participants.
• NSDP staff will call the Caucus to order at 11:30 a.m.
• • If attendees are still in line at 11:30 a.m. when the Caucus is called to order they will be allowed to sign in and participate in the Caucus. (this rule applies to all Caucus sites throughout Nevada)

THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO NEED TO INVOLVE THE POLICE AND THE OFFICIAL WAS FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT NOT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. The issue is that the incident should not have occurred. The Alternate Chair should not have allowed fellow Clinton supporters to put the signs up in the first place. Caucus Chairs and Alternates went through the same training - no signs allowed. We all knew the rules ahead of time. The issue is the Clinton supporters chose to willingly break the rules. I held a meeting with my Alternate, secretary and volunteers 10 days before the caucus in order to go over how our caucus would be conducted. We all agreed with the party that no signs would be allowed inside the venue. I cannot make it any clearer. The Clinton supporters at my caucus and others purposefully broke the rules. I heard the Clinton supporters were given training on how to turn the Clark County Caucuses into a Pro-Clinton event. Ask how many caucuses were run by Clinton supporters and how many were run by supporters of other candidates. You will find that the majority of caucuses in Clark County were run by Clinton supporters. Then ask how can that be? Because the party put them in place and didn't ask other campaigns to participate until they had all the key precincts filled with Clinton supporters! The whole affair was a setup in support of ONE CANDIDATE.

I found both HRC and Obama,very interesting and difficult to choose in the primary. But yesterday I read a series of articles as well as an interview where Obama praises Reagon and his policies. Obama goes beyond the praising of Reagon and also identifies himself with Reagon. I will now never, and I mean never vote for Obama.

Frillymail -

Just fyi, Obama was born in 1961, which technically makes him one of the baby boomers.

And don't assume 20 somethings know-all. It's stage you're going through. We've all been there, and then grown up.

Where have Howard Dean and the national Democratic Party been during all the primaries thus far?
Frillymail, since the Dem. Party sent over a police officer and party official, it sounds like someone there responded appropriately...? Did I miss something?

No!

No! No! No!

We *cannot* let matters of race divide us!

IMHO every Democratic candidate ought to start by saying ...

"Any one of us Democratic candidates this year would be a better choice than what the Republicans are offering, and every one of us would be infinitely better as President than what we've had to endure for the last 7 years. That said, now I must distinguish myself from the other Democrats".

Enough divisiveness between Democrats. We must win. We *must* take back our Country.

I'm proud of our Party's past and proud of the principles we stand for. Let's not blow it again!

Thanks Lilly1 - I know how bad it was for most of my DEM constituents. I am ashamed to call myself a NV DEM. I have seen hateful behavior in my time, all the way back to the 60s and yesterday reminded me why I will never support a candidate who uses people and a political party as if they were pawns in their chess game for power. It makes me sick to think my own neighbors would sink to that level and try to impede the democratic process in such a manner.

Thanks Lilly1 - I know how bad it was for most of my DEM constituents. I am ashamed to call myself a NV DEM. I have seen hateful behavior in my time, all the way back to the 60s and yesterday reminded me why I will never support a candidate who uses people and a political party as if they were pawns in their chess game for power. It makes me sick to think my own neighbors would sink to that level and try to impede the democratic process in such a manner.

My questions to all the Clinton supporters out there are these: If we are to vote based on experience, they why in the world would we vote for someone who gave us a promise and had 8 long years to implement health care and didn't? If we are to vote based on experience, then why should we support a candidate who has 35 years of experience and is now touting change? Wouldn't change for the better have occurred during that 35 years?

Frillymail, your caucus story sounds exactly like what happened at my precinct. Apparently, the Billary team was advised to arrive early and take over the caucus site. When the rules were outlined to the Clintonistas who had posted signs all over the place and had taken the registration table for their teeshirts, they ran to their cellphones to call in their complaints. They tried just about every trick in the book and had it not been that a number of Obama supporters had been trained in the operation of the caucus, I'm sure the Obama campaign would have been royally rolled.
I'm a long-time Democratic activist and I'm thinking of switching my registration to Independent. The Democratic Party has left me. If Billary thinks all of the hard feelings will be forgotten by November they had better think again. I don't intend to lift a finger for them if they're the nominee. I might not even vote for them.

***WASHINGTON POST***

You say this:

"User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site."

And yet you allow the profane comments and unveiled threats of a person named:

Daniel Barber
425 Klondike Avenue
Staten Island, NY 10314
(347) 406-4357

to absolutely pollute your forum. Live up to your own standards and remove this filth from the conversation.

Mr. Barber's repeated suggestion that he would like to murder another commenter clearly meets the criteria you've outlined above. This sort of despicable hysteria detracts from the quality of your publication, and that you let it stand speaks to your lack of oversight. Get on it already, huh?

I am finding Hotnuke's comments reprehensible. Whatever his intent, I find him too offensive for this site and ask that his comments be removed.

dbryall: Problem is the only place you see the truth is in blogs like these. The media in NV is predominantly owned and operated by the Greenspun family who happen to be great personal friends of Bill & Hillary. We only get a smattering of the truth here and there and we have to really look hard to find it. The "Machine" as it were makes it very hard for those of us in search of the truth to find it.

In what I've been reading from Obama he's trying to change the way politics operates.Open honest communication with the public, even on the hard issues.This is a change we desperately need in politics and this is our chance to support it. When you see someone running a dishonest campaign don't accept it as politics as usual. Reject it and reject them for condoning it.I was amazed at why Rove's tactics were accepted and MCcain lost to Bush. Now we see the Clinton political machine operating a campaign that shows little integrity and a lack of respect for democracy. Nothing should be done to discourage people from voting. If that's your tactic then you've demonstrated a lack of charecter and should lose support.

And thank you John as well. What made your caucus a disaster?

I participated in the Democratic Caucus;it was a disaster. The Nevada Dmocratic Party should be ashamed but since its agenda was a victory for Mrs. Clinton I do not expect an apology to be forthcoming. Scrap the Caucus and go to a Primary; it's more democratic in that it allows voters all day to get to the Polls and cast their vote.

Thanks for the corroboration tracy. I too am totally in agreement. A philosophy of winning the presidency by any means necessary is beyond thought. It's 2008 for heaven sake. I cannot understand why any average person would support such a campaign. I hope the American people wake up and realize they are being railroaded by the Clinton locomotive. Our democratic way of life is at stake here. Did you hear Chelsie called in the wrong info at her "caucus". I didn't know she was a NV resident, did you?

Breaking News:
(http://www.newsweek.com/id/96385)

Leading Democrats To Bill Clinton: Pipe Down

"Prominent Democrats are upset with the aggressive role that Bill Clinton is playing in the 2008 campaign, a role they believe is inappropriate for a former president and the titular head of the Democratic Party. In recent weeks, Sen. Edward Kennedy and Rep. Rahm Emanuel, both currently neutral in the Democratic contest, have told their old friend heatedly on the phone that he needs to change his tone and stop attacking Sen. Barack Obama, according to two sources familiar with the conversations who asked for anonymity because of their sensitive nature. ...

"When the former president called Kennedy, the Massachusetts Democrat gave Clinton an earful, telling him that he bore some blame for the injection of race into the contest."

Race-baiting in 2008? In a Democratic primary contest?

And the Clintons pretended to be upset when an Obama ad called their actions "shameless" (sinverguenzas)?

Martin Edwin Andersen
Churchton, Maryland

Trust me, I have no doubt there are many, many stories of the Clinton campaign trying to subvert democracy. Two of my fellow Obama supporters went to Las Vegas to work the caucus (we worked Iowa together) and saw numerous attempts to cheat. The Clinton camp had translators for the non-English speakers and were telling them they had to go stand in the Hillary camp. They were also trying to alter the counts by including people that shouldn't have been included. This was witnessed at two different precincts, independently of each other. They were reported at the time and are being investigated. I doubt these were isolated incidents. Let's face it: The Clintons will do anything to regain power and they're not above cheating to do it. I'm not sure what we have to do to fight the evil without descending to their level.

I don't like Bush, Republicans or Clinton, guess I'll have to support Obama, Edwards or BLOOMBERG.

Hold on!

Democrats can't disenfranchise voters - only the hated Republican can manage that!

Take some smelling salts; if you hate Bush so much, you can't back the Clinton machine.

hotnuke2007:

Wow, where to begin. I'm sure you think you are the wittiest person in the entire world, right? Oh my, using "Republikkunt" instead of "Republican" and "shiite" instead of "sh*t", you must be an incredible genius to rival all others. Oh wait, except for the fact that both of your terms reveal you to be not only anti-Islam, but also a misogynist. But oh wait, the use of "shiite" is to get around the censors, right? That's the perfect argument! Oh wait, EXCEPT THAT THERE ARE AT LEAST TWENTY OTHER WAYS TO DO SO WITHOUT OFFENDING A RELIGIOUS GROUP. Oh, and the new term for Republicans is...I don't know, a witty way for you to degrade them, right? Oh, by using a term that is offensive to women that is wittily misspelled to conceal it. My, my, however can we stand up to your incredible genius?! I don't even know if I can fathom it.

The irony of all your posts is astounding. You claim that Obama is racist, but you make a point to call him nothing more than a "racist...black candidate." Why does it matter to you if he's black, since he's the one who is racist and you are ultimately the oh-so superior, purely intentioned one who finds it appropriate to use offensive and repugnant terms to get your point across that you are morally superior to the rest of us as well as Obama? Also, how in the world is Obama racist? You've made this claim, but I am yet to actually hear any support for this. You accuse frillymail1017 of hiding behind his/her computer, but you are doing the same thing and finding it appropriate to throw out a vague threat. This is terribly mature. I am astounded by it.

How about this:

Make some claims for which you provide some support-- support that is logical and concrete and not some half-baked junk that fails in the face of logic. Learn to actually debate instead of threatening people and trying to make really stupid and distastefully offensive jokes with your ill-conceived puns. It will save us all some time...especially since you will probably be left with nothing to say.

I disagree L_Rena: The tactics used in the campaign reflect how a candidate operates and I don't think the American people want or deserve to be led by someone who uses strong-arm manipulation to achieve results. The tactics used by the Clinton supporters in Clark County Nevada were WRONG. Maybe those tactics would be tolerable if I lived in most any other country, but I live in the United States of America. I live in a land where people have rights. I live in a land governed by LAWS. When a party sides with one candidate to the detriment of other candidates and allows that candidate to steamroll the democratic process I call foul. No I will not vote for someone like Senator Clinton. I will never vote for anyone who uses tactics that are borderline unlawful to attain the highest office in the land.

L_Rena_Silverman:
Some of us feel that the way Clinton (both of them) has run their campaign these past two weeks has lost our respect and most likely our votes. While I still share similar progressive ideals, the way the Clintons have behaved has made me loathe to support them under any circumstances. I doubt that simply expecting us all to fall in line behind them in the fall is going to work. Clinton has lost an awful lot of potential supporters, perhaps forever.

Andrew Bellinger
New York, NY

Instead of complaining about the two top candidates, why don't you vote for someone else - No one said that just because an African American and a woman entered the race this year we were required to vote for them. Has being politically correct really gotten so out of hand that we need to prove to the world that we are 'advanced' enough to elect a minority even if it's at the detriment of our nation's future?

MODERATOR: Please evaluate whether hotnuke2007 is violating the WP posting standards and should be blocked from posting further.

There must be a Clinton supporter somewhere who isn't rapid and vicious... anyone? anyone?

Back to the point.

The fact is Hillary does not hate Obama, and I, as an obvious Clinton supporter, do not hate Obama either. What is important is that we all believe in similar political objectives and what's important, is that we wipe out the current administration with at the very least a real democracy.

Rena Silverman
New York, New York
www.hillaryclinton.com

hotnuke2007:
You are so clinton biased it's not even funny...evidently he/she said a police was scence...moron@hotnuke why don't you call the cops to verify...these records are public records anyways...your eyes are covered by clinton wool and you are so willing to drag america down with you....really sucks that we have voters that can act in an uneducated and stupid manner like you!!!!

Thanks Mike, I too am saddened by the tactics of the Clinton campaign. I am more saddened by the widening split in the DEM party. Old school vs. new school. Those in power aren't going to let go willingly. It is going to take more first-hand, honest accounts of events like mine to enlighten the American People. If enough of us tell the truth, then the truth will prevail. I am sorry that you will cast your vote for her. I will not.

frilly, please call me. Hell, I'd LOVE to visit you. I'd be on the first thing smokin' out there to Nevada. Hell, Vegas, gamblin', SHOVELS...LOL What's not to like.

Hi all -

As a Democrat, I too am hoping for a change of guard exactly one year from now. 'hotnuke2007', for Hillary's sake, I hope you are not a typical supporter, but you have certainly earned your eponymous login name with your comments tonight.

To the W.Post blog editors, I suggest you take a cue from the NY.Times Caucus blog, where (i) multiple posts within five minutes are not allowed, and (ii) posts are reviewed before being published. I think you will find that the cost of enforcement will be high at first, but will drop as folks realize that unseemly rants will not be published.

In any case, to 'frillymail1017', thanks for giving us a first-person account of the caucus situation, which was more informative, albeit anecdotal (as you yourself admit), than anything we can get from the main-stream media.

It's instructive that the Obama campaign is not claiming that the reports of any voter disenfrachisement would have altered the outcome -- Hillary probably would have done well without these kinds of efforts; she had a strong lead in the polling before the caucus. The real message here -- and as those of us who have been following this contest for a long time will admit -- is that it reflects of a pattern of events where the Clinton campaign puts winning above honest dealing.

When I was in high school, I witnessed the valedictorian of our class cheating on our AP economics final exam. It was shameful; he probably had the right answers to begin with, but he was so driven to success that he was compelled to look at the answer key while the teacher strolled out the room. Hillary Rodham Clinton, with her insatiable will to power, reminds me of him -- winning is the only thing.

I will likely vote for Hillary if she becomes the nominee, but I do wish she were running a fairer campaign -- she could win if she were willing to push on her superior command of the issues, rather than this no-holds-barred drive to victory at any cost.

doro Now I understand why the Obama & Edwards sides of my caucus room was filled with people of all races and age groups while the Clinton side was old, white and mostly female. The boomers need to move over; it's time for a new generation to fix the problems left by the generation of me, me, me and begin working on US US US as in U.S., as in United States.

Now debbie.lynna I don't think snake is a term to be used toward our former president. Greedy, philandering, power-crazed and downright dishonest maybe, but surely not a snake. Okay, well maybe a snake too.

I don't like a sore loser. The defeat in Nevada took Obama Hussein by surprise. Well wake up, it won't be the only one. Will he cry foul every time Putin turns him down, once he is in the White House. Learn from Mrs Clinton. She went on after Illinois. No crys of foul, only hard work. The days blacks keep crying foul are over. Either you are an equal and work as hard as anyone else or draw welfare.

I'm getting to the point where I cannot stand to see Hillary on the television anymore! I absolutely loathe her and the tactics she uses to exploit every situation to her advantage. She's phony and so it the snake she has for a husband.

Not so sure the AG would act on history as the damage is done. DEM Party would say oops and the campaign would say sorry. The issue is that it happened and the world should know what kind of tactics are being played by colleagues of a former President of the United States and his wife. I am so ashamed of both of them and their campaign. How in the world did politics get to be so filthy. The quest for power at any cost does not seem very American to me.

If I were frillymail1017 I wouldn't identify myself either, considering that you have threatened her in "front" of all of us. I only hope that if her story is true she takes it to her state's attorney general and to the media if the ag doesn't act.

I'm not sure why this article would call the caucus a loss for the Obama camp. I believe Obama got 13 delegates to 12 for Clinton. Sounds like a victory to me. Obama won Northern Nevada and would have won Clark County if the Party and the campaign had not been triangulating.

I have to say though, frilly, you're just like every cowardly Repuglikkkunt scumbag I've ever met on any message board or in any chatroom. You make me want to puke.

Threat?, What threat, moron...lol I stated clearly and concisely it WASN'T a threat. Good luck calling the FBI. You'll be laughed off the phone...lol

I appreciate your honesty hotnuke and will inform the Post and the FBI of your threat to me and mine. Thanks

NYC98765 - your insight and honesty is refreshing. Many Americans are feeling the same. We supported WJC, but cannot support his wife. 28 years of two families in the White House is down right frightening. We are suppose to live in a democracy, not a dynastic dictatorship...

Oh, it's not a VEILED threat, frilly. You ever want to test that fact, you call me or come see me.

Me:

Daniel Barber
425 Klondike Avenue
Staten Island, NY 10314
(347) 406-4357

You:

A cowardly, lying, lowlife piece of dung hiding behind his computer supporting a lying, racist, lowlife piece of dung not fit to be dog-catcher of Podunk, Illinois, let alone President of the United States of America.

This article is a little off. It was Bill Clinton running around charging just about anything that popped into his head -- none of which has been confirmed by anybody.

Then the Obama campaign responded.

I agree with cbyrne. I am having a terrible dilemma wondering who I would vote for, or if I would vote, if Hillary was nominated. I am a life long Democrat, I volunteer every year for a Democratic candidate. I have never even considered voting for a Republican. I had a poll taker call me and ask who I would vote for if it was McCain vs Hillary in the general, and I couldn't believe I answered McCain. I do not see Hillary Clinton as a Democrat at all, I am shocked that my party is considering this person. I am also appalled by Bill Clinton's very un-statesmanlike behavior. I think voting for Hillary is only handing the party back over to the Clintons, and I simply can not support them. It might be better if she loses in the general, at least they will be gone forever. Or until Chelsea runs.

Ah, and now comes the veiled threat. Really, stooping to such obcene comments instead of staying on task. Secure balloting is the only solution. Tracking the security and safety of the ballots will be the hard part. What group or person(s) can be trusted in this distrusted election process?

Again, frillymail1017, you're lucky you're able to hide behind your computer like the cowardly scum you are. Just thank your lucky stars for that.

Gee hotnuke, you sound just like the Clinton supporters I had to deal with yesterday...ignorant and blind...foul-mouthed and narrow...I feel sorry for you and your kind. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones, no matter how dirty the glass.

I agree with sealed paper ballots. Voting machines are a farce and I saw first-hand what can go wrong at a caucus. Think Nevada wants a primary instead of a caucus next time. You all have no idea how bad it could be, unless you took part in a Nevada caucus.

To frillymail1017:

You're nothing but a lying piece of shiite. You've been a Dem since the early 70's? I doubt it. I'm betting you're a lowlife Repuglikkkunt in here trying to sow seeds of division. Whatever party you have belonged to in the past, you're nothing but a lying piece of dung, and you're lucky you're able to hide behind your computer spouting your lies.

To steveboyington:

I couldn't agree more. Caucuses by their very nature are undemocratic and should be done away with except perhaps on a local level of say a small township.

Using them in national politics is a recipe for both corruption, and false allegations of corruption.

Hey folks I was blind too and voted for Bill TWICE...my big mistake. I had no idea of the lengths he and she would go to in order to secure this election. From bringing out of state people ON BUSES to vote in the NH primary, to the strong arm tactics I witnessed and was subjected to at my own caucus...it is disgraceful and obscene. The American people have a right to know how devious and sneaky the Clinton Machine can be. What happened to TRUTH? What happened to HONESTY? What happened to true democracy? I will never vote for her and I have been a DEM since the early 70s.

Real push-polling abuses and voter suppression tactics happen to hundreds if not thousands of people and you get reports of it from places other than the campaigns.

I have yet to see anything from the Clinton campaign confirmed. Trotting out one or two examples just doesn't cut it.

What I have seen confirmed is a fraudulent targeted mass-mailing on Obama's pro-choice voting record, Bill Clinton claiming Obama made statements in support of the Iraq war which he did not, Hillary Clinton claiming that Obama made statements distorting her MLK remarks when he had made no statements at all, and an 11th hour lawsuit which had the effect of creating lighter turnout at the sights targeted by the lawsuit -- its sole intention. And a number of other tactics truly Bush/Rovian in nature.

I'm really not interested in Clinton supporters complaining to me about Bush/Rove tactics. They've morphed into the Democratic version of it.

To cbyrne:

Good riddance to you if you abandon the Democratic Party when Hillary's nominated. We don't need moronic, ignorant jerks in our party. As for your query about my use of the term "shiite" in place of the obvious, it's a way to get around the censors, nothing more. But you read into it whatever you want. You would have anyway.

The caucus format should be banned, for the very reason that it is silly, undemocratic, and ripe for fraud and intimidation. The only binding method of voting should be secret ballot. States can hold caucuses all they want to raise money and exclude second-tier candidates; the results of those caucuses will not be recognized.

Why would I lie? I have no reason.

You have no reason?

YOU HAVE EVERY REASON TO LIE, YOU PATHETIC PIECE OF SHIITE. YOU AND YOUR PATHETIC RACIST CANDIDATE BELIEVE YOUR ONLY HOPE NOW IS TO SMEAR THE CLINTONS NOT AS BIGOTS AND RACISTS, BUT AS CRIMINALS AND THUGS BENT ON STEALING AN ELECTION.

Perhaps you think that since so many voters are ENRAGED over George W. Bush and the Repuglikkkunt Party doing just that in the past two elections, we'll buy into you pathetic lies and abandon Hillary for Obama. Get real, moron. Your candidate is nothing more than a boutique, racist, lying, black candidate now. BY HIS OWN DOING. He is headed for political oblivion. Enjoy supporting such a loser.

The previous comment about Obama also including Lieberman --- why not tell us the story that brought on such vulgar language and was "shiite" a mispelling for that "brown stuff" or actually an insinuation of some Muslim association. Ihave always been a Clinton supporter (Bill first) and defended him against references to his womanizing in his life, but now I look at his behavior in this campaign and am thoroughly disgusted. Ihave met people who when they become disgusted with the Clintons, there is no way of changing their minds and I am beginning to understand their feelings. If Barack is not the candidate, I will really have second thoughts of voting for Hillary and I am a life-long Democrat. Their behavior, when faced with a serious challenger, is almost sick. And for a former president to behave in such classless behavior is revolting. Why do they (as a couple) feel pre-ordained to occupy the White House again. And what role will he take as First Man if he is so heavy-handed in the campaign. Bring back Dennis Thatcher (Margaret's husband) who never uttered a word and let her govern.

These aren't lies hotenuke2007...I was there and so were several others who were not supporting Clinton or Obama...those of us who were there know what happened and know that the DEM party in Clark County gave preferential treatment to Clinton Supporters at caucus sites all over southern Nevada...why would I lie? I have no reason...think you would like to think it's a lie to help you swallow the fact that you are supporting a campaign and a candidate that does not play by the rules of fairness and equity.

To frillymail1017:

How much you getting paid by the Obama campaign to spout these lies? I hope it's good money. Hate to see you act like a blatant, lying piece of shiite fool for nothing...lol

One should not compete if one could not lose gracefully. Too bad that Obama is getting more arrogant everyday. Media promoted Obama to god's place that he does not know how get back on to earth. Why do we have to be bothered by the fuss of "can't loose Obama" ?

First issue was it took me several months of arguing and fighting to be the Temporary Chair for my precinct. The argument with the DEM party began in July and wasn't decided until late Nov. The party had placed two different Clinton supporters in the position on two different occasions, but I finally prevailed. The Party rules dictated no campaign signs inside our caucus sites and advised us to arrive around 10 or 10:30, noting the venue would be open at 9:30. I arrived at 930AM and found "Clinton Central" - signs, balloons, food, etc. had been placed just inside the doorway of the caucus site. Along with the "things" were several women wearing Clinton gear and acting very smug. They informed me they had been there since 7:30AM! I asked them to remove their signage and one of them responded, "I WILL REMOVE IT WHEN SOMEONE FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY COMES HERE AND TELLS ME TO." Funny thing, my Alternate Chair was standing with this woman and said nothing. My caucus secretary, called Dem HQ and relayed their ruling that the signage must come down. The woman again responded, "I WILL REMOVE IT WHEN SOMEONE FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY COMES HERE AND TELLS ME TO." I showed the woman my Temp Chair badge and told her this was not a Hillary Clinton event and that no candidate at this caucus was going to be permitted to display signage anywhere but that signage worn on one's body, per the rules of the Democratic Party. The woman dismissed me and stated for the third time, "I WILL REMOVE IT WHEN SOMEONE FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY COMES HERE AND TELLS ME TO." Shortly thereafter an official stopped by with a police officer and ordered the woman to remove the signage. She complied. The police officer stayed for a few minutes and made sure the signage was taken down and stayed down so my volunteers and I could set up our registration tables. All of this occurred under the watchful eye of a my Clinton supporting Alternate Chair, who remained silent throughout the ordeal. The other puzzle is that the Dem Party provided me with 75 ballots for my entire precinct and refused to provide anymore. My Kucinich Volunteer tried on two occasions to obtain preference cards and was told no. I went down to DEM HQ two nights before the caucus, after a confirming phone call, to obtain more preference cards and was also told no. Now for the puzzle - the majority of the first 75 attendees to my caucus, all who arrived before 10:30AM were Clinton supporters! I was lucky enough to plan ahead and provided an extra 150 preference cards made at my own expense, much to the surprise and chagrin of those early arriving Clinton supporters. Fact is I was able to provide preference cards not only to all of the my caucus goers, but also provided preference cards to other precincts at at my caucus, who ran out. I also provided plain paper to them as well to use as preference cards when the cards ran out. I knew from my dealings with the party between July and Nov that this caucus was geared toward one candidate which is why I made absolutely sure my caucus would be prepared. Last issue, after the caucus, ALL THE EXTRA PREFERENCE CARDS FROM MY CAUCUS WERE TAKEN BY A HILLARY SUPPORTER and supposedly delivered to another venue for their use - THE CLINTON SUPPORTER TOOK THE PREFERENCE CARDS AFTER THE CAUCUS WAS OVER, AFTER 12:40PM!!!!! The innocence of me and of other caucus chairs who believed the caucus would be fair and impartial was what the Clinton Campaign and the DEM party were counting on January 19. 2008 and it appears they succeeded in using that innocence and belief to their advantage. I am pleased to report that my precinct was split and Hillary Clinton did not win!! My husband overheard the woman who caused all the signage trouble, ask another Clinton supporter after the caucus, "I thought this was a lock, what happened?"

More slimy lies from the campaign of hate that is Obama's.

I really am glad things have gone the way they have. I am beginning to feel about Obama the same way I now feel about Lieberman. I actually voted for Gore/Lieberman, and while I'm considerably disappointed Gore wasn't rightfully installed as president, I've come to realize that a TREASONOUS piece of garbage like Lieberman being one step from the Oval Office would have been a SERIOUSLY scary thought in retrospect. As a Jew myself who supports Israel's right to exist but has qualms about some of their government's practices, I have to say that ANYONE who puts Israel's interests ahead of America's, as Lieberman has, is despicable beyond belief.

In the same vein, while I passionately called for a Hillary Clinton/Barack Obama ticket for the past two years, I can't imagine this lying, racist piece of shiite ever occupying the White House. Obama isn't fit to be dog-catcher of Podung, let alone President or Vice-President of the United States of America.

Let me get this straight. The Obama campaign announced it planned to lodge complaints with the Democratic Party regarding reports of organized efforts by the Clinton campaign to disenfranchise voters. The Clinton campaign then "fires back" to say that maybe they will do the same, a kind of tit-for-tat complaint. If Obama people were interfering with voters, and the Clinton campaign was aware of this, why wouldn't they want the practice investigated. Bill Clinton did claim that he saw Obama operatives trying to intimidate union hotel workers who had confessed to him that they were going to vote for Hillary right in front of him and his daughter. I guess Bill and Chelsea were going incognito at the time.
In New Hampshire, the Clinton campaign prevented Obama field workers from conducting their get out the vote effort by having them illegally excluded from polling sites. This successful effort was later written off as an innocent misinterpretation of the rules. When Texas and Arkansas are setting the standards for the nation, it's difficult to bank on Hope.