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At Seattle Caucus, Strong Obama Support

By Juliet Eilperin
SEATTLE -- Sometimes, the cliché "latte liberal" really does apply.

Early this afternoon Madhavi Vuthoori, latte in hand, started making her way over to the Center School to caucus with other Democrats here. Vuthoori, a Teaneck, N.J.-native who works for "a tea start-up" -- that's cold, bottled chai, in case you were wondering -- was looking forward to participating in her first caucus even though she was torn on who to support.

"I'm undecided," she explained. "But I'm going to make a decision."

Just because Vuthoori hadn't picked between Democratic Sens. Hillary Clinton (N.Y.) and Barack Obama (Ill.) didn't mean that she wasn't prepared. She had printed out the transcript of last month's Democratic debate in Los Angeles and read the entire thing, and had researched the rules for caucusing as well.

Once she made her way past the Key Arena -- where Obama drew an audience of roughly 17,000 on Friday -- she ducked into a part of the Seattle Center complex, and made her way past the food court to a polling place. The neighborhood, lower Queen Anne, is the kind of place where the voting sign-in sheet features two optional boxes: one for ethnicity and another for "LGBT," shorthand for lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.

Plenty of other Democratic residents of precinct 1704 had shown up as well. Between 350 and 450 voters from half a dozen precincts came to vote, compared to 175 last time. After voters made their way into a cramped classroom Lindsay Bealko -- who cautioned she had "no formal role whatsoever" in the polling process -- informed the group they needed to "try to really slowly and really carefully" to make their way to a bigger room so as not to present a fire hazard. After the crowd of 107 relocated to a bigger room, they had to switch once more to an even larger room.

Vuthoori settled into her chair, flanked on both sides by Obama supporters who touted their candidate's positions on climate change and student grants (she's applying to graduate school at the moment).

And while she wasn't about to declare, Vuthoori was leaning toward Obama from the outset. The two candidates held roughly the same positions, Vuthoori noted, and while she admired Clinton's experience, Obama had opposed the war from the outset.

"My gut feeling goes to him," she explained. "He's nice. It might be nice to have a nice guy in the Oval Office."

At the outset of the caucus, Nicole Drinkwine-Suarez read the preliminary numbers: Obama 74, Clinton 21, Edwards 3 and Undecided 9. And then the caucusing began.

Different representatives made their cases: the Edwards supporter, Todd Lawson explained that he wanted Democrats to remember that infighting could undermine their ability to bring change.

"My point is, let's get the Republicans out of the White House," Lawson said to scattered applause. "Hillary's change, Obama's change, maybe slightly different flavors, maybe different aisles, but in the same supermarket."

Eddie Snead made the shortest pitch: "Obama, Obama, Obama." That prompted Ben Kirk to offer a more elaborate defense, saying that the first time in his 32-year old life he believed, "There may be a future for me if we get some change going on."

Clinton supporter Pat McCoy sounded a little like the senator herself as she detailed her 35-years of government experience. "I'm a good bureaucrat, believe me," she said.

Then, she sounded a little blunter than Clinton. "I can honestly say that in my adult life this country has never been in such dire straits. On every front--there's no point in making a list--we're in deep shit," she said. "Hillary Clinton is the only one who can fix this mess."

And finally, the undecideds got a chance to voice their concerns. Michael Goros, sporting a black jacket with a red silk-screened image of Bush's face and the words "war criminal," spoke of how he had initially backed Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), and now didn't know where to turn.

"I don't want the corporate-sponsored candidate," he lamented.

Goros switched to Obama, as did Vuthoori.

Then, Kirk announced the final tally: 78 for Obama, 27 for Clinton, and 2 Undecided. Out of the 11 total delegates headed to the King County convention in April, Obama won eight compared to Clinton's three.

Vuthoori left feeling comfortable with her vote. "He's less divisive in the country, and he's more humanistic," she said of Obama. "Clinton's great, but she seems more capitalistic, more corporate. Ultimately it was more of a gut decision than an intellectual one."

By Washington Post editors  |  February 9, 2008; 6:05 PM ET
 
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Comments

you're all racists.

Posted by: caca.face | March 6, 2008 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Dude, no matter whether you support or don't support the War, voting "yes" for funding is the right thing to do. Do you know what will happen to the US military, the soldiers on the ground, if the money they're using to survive is taken away from them? They'll die. Trust me, I want them out ASAP too, but I don't want them all coming home in body bags. Voting yes for funding is supporting the troops. They know what they're doing over there, they know when they sign up. They're adults. I'm sure that if they want you (or Obama or whoever) to stop funding them, they'll holler.
People say that Obama supporters a naive. Taking funding away from troops when they're already struggling is not only naive, it's deadly and, quite frankly, selfish.

Posted by: merrilyiroll | February 10, 2008 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Anadromous2:

"A CAUCUS SITE IS NOT A POLLING PLACE."

As I said, if that's true, then the statute I linked to does not apply -- I'm just not sure if that's true -- as for your comment about being easily tripped up by "subliminal advertising" I don't think that's the primary reasoning behind the law.

Posted by: JakeD | February 10, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Mepeter you compared apples to oranges. Obama has a very very poor record of having any of his bills get co-sponsored let alone passed. I did a Thomas search on Obama and the first 10 bills were all either speical interest black issues or ones that had no sponsors at all..

Items 1 through 100 of 1131. S.CON.RES.5 : A concurrent resolution honoring the life of Percy Lavon Julian, a pioneer in the field of organic chemistry and the first and only African-American chemist to be inducted into the National Academy of Sciences.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 1/31/2007) Cosponsors (5)
Committees: Senate Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 1/31/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.
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2. S.CON.RES.25 : A concurrent resolution condemning the recent violent actions of the Government of Zimbabwe against peaceful opposition party activists and members of civil society.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 3/29/2007) Cosponsors (7)
Committees: Senate Foreign Relations
Latest Major Action: 6/26/2007 Held at the desk.


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3. S.CON.RES.44 : A concurrent resolution expressing the sense of Congress that a commemorative postage stamp should be issued honoring Rosa Louise McCauley Parks.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 9/12/2007) Cosponsors (22)
Committees: Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
Latest Major Action: 10/19/2007 Referred to Senate subcommittee. Status: Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs referred to Subcommittee on Federal Financial Management, Government Information, Federal Services, and International Security.


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4. S.CON.RES.46 : A concurrent resolution supporting the goals and ideals of Sickle Cell Disease Awareness Month.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 9/17/2007) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
Latest Major Action: 9/17/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Referred to the Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. S.RES.133 : A resolution celebrating the life of Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 3/28/2007) Cosponsors (4)
Latest Major Action: 3/28/2007 Passed/agreed to in Senate. Status: Submitted in the Senate, considered, and agreed to without amendment and with a preamble by Unanimous Consent. oh wow it passed! kewl


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6. S.RES.268 : A resolution designating July 12, 2007, as "National Summer Learning Day".
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 7/11/2007) Cosponsors (4)
Committees: Senate Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 7/13/2007 Passed/agreed to in Senate. Status: Resolution agreed to in Senate without amendment and with a preamble by Unanimous Consent. yeah fun. school in the summer


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7. S.RES.383 : A resolution honoring and recognizing the achievements of Carl Stokes, the first African-American mayor of a major American city, in the 40th year since his election as Mayor of Cleveland, Ohio.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 11/15/2007) Cosponsors (2)
Committees: Senate Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 11/15/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Referred to the Committee on the Judiciary. another black special interest issue


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8. S.J.RES.23 : A joint resolution clarifying that the use of force against Iran is not authorized by the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq, any resolution previously adopted, or any other provision of law.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 11/1/2007) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: Senate Foreign Relations
Latest Major Action: 11/1/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations. NO co-sponsors? wow not even his own party?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9. S.114 : A bill to authorize resources for a grant program for local educational agencies to create innovation districts.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 1/4/2007) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
Latest Major Action: 1/4/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions. opps got stuck again in committee


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10. S.115 : A bill to suspend royalty relief, to repeal certain provisions of the Energy Policy Act of 2005, and to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to repeal certain tax incentives for the oil and gas industry.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 1/4/2007) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: Senate Finance
Latest Major Action: 1/4/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance.
NO co-sponsors.. If he thinks he can get people on the R's to vote for him why don't fellow D's support his legislation?

Posted by: cascadia_development | February 10, 2008 3:42 AM | Report abuse

Obama won 70% of the 10% of the eligble voters here in washington. so 7% of the eligible voters voted for him.

I was aghast at the outright mis-information that Obama supports were using. Such as "he grew up overseas in Indonesia and Africa and is fluent in Indonesian and with his Muslim name will be able to reach out internationally better then she will" when in fact he only lived in Indonesia from age 6 to 10 or "he has always opposed the war" I guess they forgot about his votes to fund it?

We are watching the first President elected as by people who have been raised on reality TV shows and think this is a contest for spokes model.

They so believe in him but it is like the book the "Secret" that Oprah loves. If you just believe in something it will happen. Well the reality is that with congress you need to KNOW someone I believe in Obama but I know Hillary. If these two were both white men who would you vote for? Hillary.

Posted by: cascadia_development | February 10, 2008 3:31 AM | Report abuse

A CAUCUS SITE IS NOT A POLLING PLACE.
You are not voting in a caucus; rather, you are announcing your "preference" and engaging with other voters to talk about why you believe your preferred candidate is better. That is why there are all those political signs in the caucus rooms. Besides, if you are that easily tripped up by "subliminal advertising," your reasoning ability is probably a little shaky. The Hillary supporters in my city came three hours early and plastered the place with slick signs and brouchures. Obama's signs and literature came more from grassroots efforts -a lot of homemade stuff. No wonder Hillary's campaign went broke!
I was very impressed with how energized the people were. People in North Snohomish were engaged in discussing the issues. Hillary and her supporters are becoming a one-issue candidacy - Healthcare 24/7. I hope that HIllary will take the chance to co-sponsor a healthcare bill next year with Ted Kennedy and will help lead the fight for healthcare reform in the Senate for President Obama.

Her 'experience' claim obviously isn't working with Obama (hence most) voters here. As I listened to people talking all afternoon, I heard the Obama supporters describing her as a flawed and polarizing political figure. Concern about the Bush Clinton Bush Clinton (Bush?) daisy chain was mentioned a lot. Most people are not excited about the return of Bill either. And when the Clinton camp played the 'same old politcs' after Iowa, they tipped people off that the Clintons were still "in combat mode." In fact, I will venture to say that people were energized to come out to stop the Clintons as much as they want to see the GOP out. I have never see that kind of inraparty backlash against a candidate before. Bottomline judgment: they don't believe Hillary will change the direction of this country; and people really want a fundamental change.

I hope that Hillary supporters get through their grief and anger about a young black man beating out an older professional woman. Barack 'feels' more authentic to more people here. The last three presidents lied to the American people. By extention, people feel that Bushes and Clintons are not straightforward and truthful And they want to believe what the politicians tell them. Obama just seems to be that guy and Hillary doesn't seem to be that woman. Whether that is fair or not is becoming a moot point. As Susan Sarandon observed recently, "I believe that the American people are ready to elect a woman president; I'm not sure this is the right woman."

Posted by: Anadromous2 | February 10, 2008 1:09 AM | Report abuse

MSNBC has published the demographic distribution of the votes in Louisiana. Read www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21225983 .

Again, most African-Americans voted only on the basis of skin color. 86% of African-American voters supported Barack Hussein Obama in Louisiana.

What we are witnessing is the presidential version of the senatorial race in Connecticut in 2006. In that race, Ned Lemont won the Democratic nomination for the Senate seat occupied by Joseph Lieberman. Like Obama, Lemont appealed to a very narrow portion of the general electorate, but that narrow portion is actually a large portion of the Democratic party. After Lieberman ran for his Senate seat as an Independent, he won. Lieberman has broad appeal across all segments of the American electorate.

Like Lieberman, Hillary Clinton has broad appeal to all ethnic groups except for racist African-Americans. However, Obama may win the Democratic nomination because the narrow portion (of American voters) who supports him is a large portion of the Democratic party.

Posted by: blueboat | February 10, 2008 12:34 AM | Report abuse

To: jchaney

Very relaxed and cordial caucus session. Results were about the same as Seattle: 3 to 1 Obama.

Posted by: meandbill | February 10, 2008 12:15 AM | Report abuse

To: jchaney

Very relaxed and cordial caucus session. Results were about the same as Seattle: 3 to 1 Obama.

Posted by: meandbill | February 10, 2008 12:14 AM | Report abuse

I am the guy Kirk spoken about in the article above. I think it is important to note that the tremendous participation of new voters is an incredibly positive thing. The Dems have suffered from apathy and lagged in true grassroots organization. All these new participants need to be embraced.

I saw a level of resistance in the precinct chair and shut down the usual caucus process of discussion and personal contact. It is my opinion that the individuals who have held the precincts together are for the most part in support of Clinton. The influx of new participants has overwhelmed their hopes for Clinton delegates. I clearly see a level of animosity and resentment that their desires are being overshadowed by people whom they've never seen before. I can understand this feeling. It explains why Clinton is trying to close the process. Every day that passes means more support for Obama.

I support Sen Obama for three reasons the reporter did not mention.
1) He represents a new vision.
2) He can pull in moderates and even a number of republicans while maintaining a progressive stance.
3) The support of Ted Kennedy indicates to me that the system and functions of the government are ready to be lead by Obama.

Clinton represents some dangers. Of she is the candidate the Republicans that would have simply remained at home on election day will rush to the polls to vote against her. Also, she represents a system of governing that is based on creating divisions in people and groups and then being the hero by finding common ground.

I understand the resentment of the women that have given themselves to the process. I appreciate that women feel their time is due. It would be unfortunate if the race turns into gender vs race. I would be sad and it would help the Republicans.

I support Obama because it is the first time I see a candidate that can generate a vision and a change of government that may sustain our success as a nation past the crisis of the baby boomer's retiring and the devastation of social security.

If there is any Hillary hating going on it is because her supporters are offended that other citizens, other voters, might dare come and change their plans. She acts the underdog as she consults wit an 8 year president. Yes, women are equal. That's not the thing....Obama is better, supported by the right people...and get this...

HE CAN WIN

For all the comments above...I hope you all stay involved. It is a continuing joy to see citizens participating. Let's keep it going!!!

VOTE...hell, I know who I'm voting for, but that doesn't matter...just vote! Get involved! Participate!

GET EVERYONE YOU KNOW IF YOU AGREE WITH THEM OR NOT TO GET INVOLVED AND VOTE

VOTEVOTEVOTEVOTEVOTEVOTEVOTEVOTEVOTE

DO SOMETHING...GET OTHERS TO DO SOMETHING.

The important part is involvement...we are citizens first. Remember Tip O'Niel's rule...after 6 we're all friends. I'll get to who I think you should vote for...but first, are you gunna vote?!?!?!!!!!

Posted by: BenK1976 | February 9, 2008 11:36 PM | Report abuse

To bluecoat:

You need to check your facts. Of college enrollment during the last three years the highest percentage of new enrollment is among African-American women. Further, when you look at the distribution of federal funds for education, urban areas fare the worse. In Richmond, Virginia funding in elementary suburban schools outstrip that of urban, inner-city schools by 45%. We should target money where it is needed, and I find your little comments about African-Americans' refusal to learn akin to the comments made about African-
Americans in the early 20th century. By the way, the scores among the entire population of middle school children are down since the Republican administration's "No child left behind" nonsense.

Posted by: sboyd18 | February 9, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

"svreader"-is a Clinton campaign mole who are always on blogs criticizing Obama. Get a life and pray because Hilary's going to need it. Go Obama!!

Posted by: ski_diva | February 9, 2008 11:03 PM | Report abuse

blueboat:
Another way to look at Obama's youth vote is that young people are getting involved in politics, and politics of an optimistic rather than cynical kind. Their involvement will teach them. And we need these young people in the Democratic Party. We need new activists to promote progressive causes. If some of them are ignorant (as some older people are!), nevertheless they have to start somewhere. Let's not turn them away, for God's sake.

Posted by: jchaney | February 9, 2008 10:55 PM | Report abuse

75% of adults between 18 and 24 (inclusively) years of age do not know that most people in Indonesia are Muslim. (Visit news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/0502_060502_geography.html .) The ignorance of young adults is disturbing.

Yet, the workers in the campaign for Barack Hussein Obama claim that the youthful voters correctly pick the "best candidate". Obama certainly attracts the youth vote.

If a person is a dummy, he bases his decisions on emotion. He is drawn to the inspirational speeches -- of Barack Hussein Obama.

Posted by: blueboat | February 9, 2008 10:42 PM | Report abuse

svreader - who in the world are you anyway? Sen. Obama extended health care for children to nearly 100% low income kids in Illinois. His federal program is modeled on that one - 100% coverage for kids (with federal subsidies for those who can't afford it). Sen. Clinton has already tried, and failed, to get a universal health care bill through a Democratic Congress. It just ain't gonna happen, man, with all the institutional (not to mention pharmaceutical resistance) to the idea. Her promise of universal health care (effected by deductions from your paycheck whether you want it or not) is similar to her silly promise of bringing home the troops from Iraq in the first 60 days of her taking over the Oval Office. Please . . . I was born at night, but not last night. Universal health care? Or graduated, transitional programs - obtained by consensus voting from both sides of the aisle in Congress 0 go Obama!!

Posted by: jrsweld | February 9, 2008 10:42 PM | Report abuse

jchaney:

You really think Hillary's going to drop out before Texas?! She's got the super-delegate advantage AND the argument to make at the Convention to seat Michigan and Florida delegates.

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 10:25 PM | Report abuse

At this point, Clinton almost has to win Virginia in order to survive.

Posted by: jchaney | February 9, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

That's it. A sweep. Louisiana goes to Obama. And now if Maine goes tomorrow, Clinton may be looking at a light that's diminishing at the end of a tunnel. In this race, no one can go three weeks recording nothing but losses.

Posted by: jchaney | February 9, 2008 10:21 PM | Report abuse

svreader:

"Poor" people in America still get healthcare -- unlike "poor" people in Africa, for instance.

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 10:13 PM | Report abuse

Voters concerned about health care --

Wake up to the fact that anti-health-care posts are all pro-Obama!!!

OBAMA = NO HEALTH CARE FOR POOR PEOPLE!!!

PLEASE WAKE UP BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!!

Posted by: svreader | February 9, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These inculded
**the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law),
**The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law),
**The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate,
**The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law),
**The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee), and many more.

In all since enter the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096. An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no record according to the spin meisters and mindless twits.
-------------------------

So he either authored or co-sponsored 1.59 bills every day on average for his first year in office. I'm sure many curious minds would like to know what came of all this high octane bill production other than the cutting down of a forest or two.

Posted by: JamesSCameron | February 9, 2008 10:07 PM | Report abuse

Well, it looks like Obama may be in the clear in Louisiana. He may sweep today. And--surprise, surprise!--Huckabee is leading there, too. (And I thought the entire media and political establishment had guaranteed that Huckabee could hope to win only one more state after Super Tuesday, namely, Mississippi. Wrongg!!) Maybe we should be talking about the November Obama-Huckabee matchup?

Posted by: jchaney | February 9, 2008 10:04 PM | Report abuse

JakeD:
Florida is perhaps a problem for Obama, but not for the reason you mention. Had he campaigned there, he would have surpassed McCain's numbers with ease. (Of course, those numbers don't mean anything, though, because other candidates were involved, and more of them on the Republican side.) But Florida is always close. And Obama would be looking at the prospect of living with the fact that that Democrats ruled that the Florida delegation couldn't participate at the Convention. That problem may matter to some people. But also (and this is a sad thing in most cases) people forget easily; and Democrats, whether in Florida or Michigan, just don't want to vote for Bush's chosen candidate this year. Certainly McCain could win Florida.

Posted by: jchaney | February 9, 2008 10:01 PM | Report abuse

LOL (again)!!! McCain got 693,508 votes in Florida; Obama only got 569,041 (assuming they don't vote for Pat Buchanan instead).

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

As an "issues voter" who's issue is health care, I'm deeply saddened by the results I see.

If Obama is elected we can kiss any chance of universal health care goodbye.

The people who will suffer the most are low-income Americans, especially African-Americans and Latinos who will go without health insurance to save money, then go to the emergency room, get poor care and pay a fortune just like they do now.

I suppose I shouldn't care.
I'm white and middle class.
I've got the perfect democraphic for Obama.

I became a Democrat because I cared about the less-fortunate.

What I see happening is breaking my heart.

Posted by: svreader | February 9, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

Obama is moving ahead in Louisiana, but with only 4% reporting. And look at those exit polls: 60% women and only 10% in the 18-29 yr category. Surely that can't be good for him....

Posted by: jchaney | February 9, 2008 9:43 PM | Report abuse

P.S. to rlaitres:

Ronald Reagan won New York and California upon upon a time too ; )

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 9:41 PM | Report abuse

Either Democrat takes both New York and California. The question marks are Missouri, Florida, Ohio, Colorado, and maybe Michigan. Others?

Posted by: jchaney | February 9, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

McCain got 51% of the GOP vote in New York; Obama only got 41% of the Dem vote.

In California, I will admit it was much closer percentage with McCain and Obama getting 42% of their respective party's vote.

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

rlaitres:

"Both States" meaning California and New York?

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 9:36 PM | Report abuse

JakeD misses the point entirely. He forgets that the Democrats had their primary and the Republicans had theirs. Given November, no matter which Democratic candidate is representing the party, the party will, in all likelihood win both states, and by a landslide.

Posted by: rlaitres | February 9, 2008 9:33 PM | Report abuse

Obviously, if the location is not an official "polling place" the law does not apply -- I was just trying to be helpful -- but I'm not so sure the elementary school in question wasn't an official "polling place" though.

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

The law about campaigning doesn't apply to today's caucus, which is a party-sponsored event. The entire purpose of the caucus is to campaign for your candidate, so applying alaw forbidding wearing a campaign button would be a bit insane.

Posted by: tgoglia | February 9, 2008 9:30 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand these charges of "hating Hillary". For most people, at least intelligent ones, that is not at all the case. Seems more "planted" by those that want to start division than anything else. I am an Obama supporter, but not because I have anything against Hillary, but because I firmly believe that he is the best possible candidate at this time, and for the good of the country. Sometimes, if we have to change persepective, we have to change generations and, although a few years older than the formal "baby boomers", I still consider myself one. If Obama gets nominated, then elected, he will need all of our help, including from those who ran against him. That is the only way we can insure a landslide election for the Democrats in November. In the meantime, let us put our "knives" away, let the candidates to discuss the issues, and after the convention, everyone needs to get to work. The Republicans, if you distill all of their positions, it boils down to three words: "Stay the course". This country cannot afford to stay on its present course in any area, be that economic policy, domestic policy or foreign policy. Let us just get it done, and keep pushing for the changes we not only want, but need.

Posted by: rlaitres | February 9, 2008 9:29 PM | Report abuse

LOL!!! Name even ONE State that Obama wins against McCain that John Kerry didn't win in 2004? McCain vs. Obama even puts New York and California in play.

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 9:26 PM | Report abuse

To blueboat:

I would encourage you to reconsider your racist views. You seem to have a real grudge against African Americans. We need to build a better society; we don't need to tear each other apart.

Mike

Posted by: MichaelH3 | February 9, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

meandbill:

How did the vote go in your precinct? What was the atmosphere?

Posted by: jchaney | February 9, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Someone wrote, "What if Bloomberg does not join the race, but I am an Independent who cannot vote for McCain but was supporting Mitt Romney instead?"

Then, you must convince Republicans to switch registration to the Democratic party for the remaining Democratic primaries and caucuses. They must vote for Hillary Clinton.

If Clinton loses the nomination, then the presidential contest will be John McCain versus Barack Hussein Obama. In that contest, Obama wins.

Posted by: blueboat | February 9, 2008 9:24 PM | Report abuse

"The Trail" reporter Juliet Eilperin should take greater care with egregious stereotypes. Her comment in para four that the lower Queen Anne neighborhood in Seattle is "the kind of place" where the caucus sign-in sheet carries optional boxes for noting ethnicity and "LGBT" status is inappropriate. We just concluded a Democratic caucus in eastern Spokane county - almost on the north Idaho border - and our sheets had the very same optional entries.

Posted by: meandbill | February 9, 2008 9:14 PM | Report abuse

Obama is winning Louisiana!!

By the way, svreader, Hillary's universal healthcare plan, which will require people to join it or face "enforcement actions" will die in a Congressional committee on its arrival. Read DOA. It will not become law and whose gonna pay for it with what money??? Is this an intelligent issue to be concerned and not vote for Hillary (or Hillarycare)?

Posted by: meldupree | February 9, 2008 9:14 PM | Report abuse

aeon:

Wasn't it an official "polling place"? I'm simply reading from the Washington State statute (linked above):

WASH. REV. CODE § 29A.84.510(1) (2005) On the day of any primary or general or special election, no person may, within a polling place, or in any public area within three hundred feet of any
entrance to such polling place: (a) Suggest or persuade or attempt to suggest or persuade any voter to vote
for or against any candidate . . .

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 9:13 PM | Report abuse

From Ballard- N. of Downtown Seattle. Used to be a working class neighborhood. Filled in withing bohemian types who can longer afford capital hill. Neighborhood now going through its own gentrification.

7:1 was in favor of Obama

Everyone was congenial towards one another but not towards Hillary. Her vote for the war in Iraq and the Kyl-Lieberman amendment were the main points against her.


Ages ranged from 18 to 60's, mostly in the 30-40 range. Mostly white with a few african americans

Posted by: tgoglia | February 9, 2008 9:10 PM | Report abuse

What if Bloomberg does not join the race, but I am an Independent who cannot vote for McCain but was supporting Mitt Romney instead?

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 9:09 PM | Report abuse

jaked:

Candidate posters and buttons were all over the elementary school in which we caucused. I had the same reaction when I saw Obama and Hillary posters inside but then realized it wasn't an election...

Posted by: aeon | February 9, 2008 9:09 PM | Report abuse

From Ballard- N. of Downtown Seattle. Used to be a working class neighborhood. Filled in withing bohemian types who can longer afford capital hill. Neighborhood now going through its own gentrification.

7:1 was in favor of Obama

Everyone was congenial towards one another but not towards Hillary. Her vote for the war in Iraq and the Kyl-Lieberman amendment were the main points against her.

Posted by: tgoglia | February 9, 2008 9:08 PM | Report abuse


I am an independent and have no particular bias in favor of either Democrats or Republicans, but I can read the political currents readily. Last week, I told you that Asian-Americans would vote for Hillary Clinton. I was right. 75% of them voted for Clinton in California.

Here is how the presidential race will elapse. Whoever becomes the Democratic nominee will become president. The two principal reasons for this outcome are the Iraq War and the 2008 recession.

If you are Republican and if you support Clinton, then you must register as a Democrat in order to participate in the upcoming Democratic primaries (and caucuses). You must vote for Clinton.

If you do not vote in the Democratic primary, then there is a 40% probability that Obama will become the Democratic nominee -- and the president. Ask yourself, "Do I support the racial politics that the Obama campaign has been pursuing? Do I support removing educational standards?" (Obama has long opposed educational standards by demanding the cancellation of all exit exams for high-school students.)

The above analysis assumes that Michael Bloomberg does not join the race.

Posted by: blueboat | February 9, 2008 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Obama has won the Washington caucus.

Posted by: jchaney | February 9, 2008 8:47 PM | Report abuse

Obama has won Nebraska.

Posted by: jchaney | February 9, 2008 8:45 PM | Report abuse

julieds:

If Obama is soo anti-Iraq war candidate, what has he done to stop this war since he came to the US senate . When was the last time he went to the floor of the US senate and said I want to cancel this war funding. I will not leave this floor until I get votes on this issue. Any US senator can do that during the session. He has done none of that. In fact, he record is no different than many of our democratic senators.

He is just another go along get along senator from Illinois when it comes ending this war.

There is nothing to brag about when it comes to Iraq war issue!

Posted by: kat7 | February 9, 2008 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Everyone should read the NYT article about universal health care.

We could have had this election be about the most important issue of are time, a life and death issue for millions of Americans.

Instead of serious discussions about Health Care we get "Obama-mania"

Is this a Presidential election or pro-wrestling???

Posted by: svreader | February 9, 2008 8:39 PM | Report abuse


"[Barack Hussein Obama] says he would delay NASA's controversial moon-to-Mars program five years in order to fund education initiatives." (Visit www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/obamas_nasa_plan_gets_little_p.php .)

These education initiatives are merely remedial programs (costing billions of dollars) to fix the problem of African-American underperformance in education. Many states have implemented exit exams, which test knowledge at typically the 8th-grade level. A high-school student must pass the exit exam before receiving a diploma. A large percentage of African-Americans regularly fails such exams.

Who is responsible for African-American underperformance in education? These exams test a bare minimum of knowledge. The intellectual level of these exams is so low that failing them means only one thing: you deliberately and willfully refused to learn.

The average American is not responsible for African-Americans' refusal to learn.

If an African-American exits high-school without a diploma and without any knowledge beyond the 6th grade, that African-American should pay for the full cost of any remedial program. American society should not pay one penny for this kind of program.

Yet, Obama thinks that you and I should pay billions of dollars for this remedial program. Obama intends to gut both the military-defense program and the space program in order to pay for these so-called education initiatives.

These initiatives are not about installing Internet cables in all rural school districts. These initiatives are not about funding advanced science programs in the schools.

These initiatives are about funding remedial programs for people who mock and laugh at the concept of education.

Vote for Hillary Clinton? YES! WE! CAN!

Posted by: blueboat | February 9, 2008 8:38 PM | Report abuse

I believe RFK won the California primary too . . .

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 8:34 PM | Report abuse

It's great to hear accounts from the Washington caucus-goers. More details, please: atmosphere, quotes, etc. And anyone from the eastern half of the state? If you set aside the understandably heated exchanges between Obama and Clinton people, it's just good to hear some citizen reportage from the ground.

Posted by: jchaney | February 9, 2008 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Our South Seattle caucus involving 12 middle class and working class precincts was jam-packed, and seemed to be about 75-80% for Obama (and he got that percentage of our delegates). As I've found myself repeating a lot, it reminded me of the RFK phenomenon in 1968, but minus the frenzy. Perhaps because of the overwhelming Obama majority, the relative paucity of people to convert, everyone was gracious and thoughtful in their remarks, and the Obama supporters clapped politely after the Hillary supporters spoke. Could the Washington caucuses provide a tipping point, the day when arithmetic AND momentum both swing Barack's way? Sure hope so.

Posted by: eredman | February 9, 2008 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Wedgwood neighborhood (north Seattle) report:

Yuppy & little old lady area
Huge turnount: 75% new caucusgoers
My precinct went Obama 6-2

Posted by: ssomo | February 9, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

wj_phillips wrote:
"As a person who has attended and chaired party meetings, I can assure you the most extreme turn out. The left for Democrats. The right for Republicans."
I agree in general but these are newer and younger voters and they're motivated. They're not interested in left/right extremes. That's so 20th century! And look how well that whole "culture war", divide and destroy thing worked out for America!

Posted by: thebobbob | February 9, 2008 8:22 PM | Report abuse

I just returned from our caucus here in Bellingham (University town about 1 1/2 hours away from Seattle, close to Canadian border), and both my own caucus and my friends' were overwhelmingly for Obama. Mine was 8 to 1, another 10 to 2... there were hardly any undecided candidates to sway! What an interesting election.

Posted by: uubellingham | February 9, 2008 8:18 PM | Report abuse

kufinda:

Will you join with me in pledging to NOT vote for Hillary Clinton if she secures / steals the nomination away from Obama?

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

mepeter - Excellent! And for those of you focused on the bad press Hillary gets? Ever occur to you there's sound reason? Get over it! She's over the "Hill" - and we're sick and tired of moving backwards, not forwards.

Posted by: primarywatcher | February 9, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

mepeter:

Will you join with me in pledging to NOT vote for Hillary Clinton if she secures / steals the nomination away from Obama?

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 8:09 PM | Report abuse

goneyard22:

You should not have been allowed to wear your Obama stickers within 300 feet of any polling place in the State. http://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4685&context=expresso

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton's experience is mired in controversy, ranging from:
1) turning $1,000 into $100,000 in cattle futures while working for the Rose law firm. She received tips from James B. Blair who was outside counsel for Tyson Foods in Arkansas. In one day she made over $10,000 on day trading which would point to insider knowledge from within Tyson Foods.
Washington Post (please check my references if you like)

2) to Whitewater, a 1980s land deal that went bad and revealed that 1) Bill Clinton exerted pressure on an Arkansas businessman, David Hale, to make an illegal loan that would benefit him and the owners of Madison Guaranty; and 2) that an Arkansas bank had concealed transactions involving Clinton's gubernatorial campaign in 1990.

3) to Travelgate, the 1993 firing of seven longtime employees of the travel office, which handles travel arrangements for reporters and television crews covering the president. Hillary Rodham Clinton, who is alleged to have pressured White House lawyers into dismissing the travel office staff and bringing in the FBI to investigate them, so that friends of the First Family could enjoy the office's patronage spoils.
Columbia Journalism Review/New York Observer

4) In the aftermath of the apparent suicide (yes, it gets ugly!) of her former partner and closest confidant, White House Deputy Counsel Vincent Foster, Hillary Clinton ordered the overturn of an agreement to allow the Justice Department to examine the files in the dead man's office. Her closest friends and aides, under oath, have been blatantly disremembering this likely obstruction of justice, and may have to pay for supporting Hillary's lie with jail terms.
New York Times
5) In August 2000, during her first Senate run, Clinton met with the Hasidic community in New Square, where many members were working to obtain clemency for four members of their community who had been convicted of stealing tens of millions of dollars from the state and federal government.
She refused to talk about the controversial pardons of the four New York Hasidic Jews by her husband. New Square voted 1359-10 for the first lady - although other nearby Hasidic enclaves voted 3480-152 for Clinton's GOP opponent, former Rep. Rick Lazio.

New York Times
6) Hillary Clinton's brother Hugh Rodham , was paid approximately $200,000 from Almon Glenn Braswell, whom President Clinton pardoned for mail fraud and perjury, as was Carlos Vignali, whose sentence for cocaine trafficking was commuted. News of his involvement in the pardon controversy prompted an outrage in Washington, D.C.
"I knew nothing about my brother's involvement in these pardons," Sen. Clinton said at the time. "I knew nothing about his taking money for his involvement."
The Clintons asked Hugh Rodham to return the cash, which he did.
Time Magazine
7) Hillary Clinton's brother Tony Rodham was paid $244,769 over 2½ years by a carnival company, United Shows of America, owned by Edgar and Vonna Jo Gregory. The Gregorys had been convicted of bank fraud and were seeking pardons. Tony Rodham has said he mentioned their pardon application to his brother-in-law, who ultimately granted the Gregorys a pardon. But Rodham said he was not paid for anything having to do with the pardon.
Boston Globe
8) Peter Paul has business relationship with Clintons that goes bad. Clintons steal one of his clients and he retaliates turning Clinton in for violating campaign regulations during a fundraiser he held for her to the tune of $1 million. The FEC formally determined that Hillary Clinton's Senate campaign treasurer, Andrew Grossman is legally responsible for the three false FEC reports that Hillary's finance director, David Rosen, was criminally charged and tried for in mid-2005. Mr. Grossman signed a "Conciliation Agreement" with the FEC on December 13, 2005, admitting his culpability, and agreeing to pay a civil fine and amend his false reports to reflect the $721,000 that he failed to report since October, 2000.
Wall Street Journal

9) Pastor Got $1.5 Million in Clinton Earmarks Before Endorsement
Widely reported

10) Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton gives large earmarks of $1 billion in government-backed financing for a development project called Destiny. Robert Congel, the owner of Destiny, then turned around and financed and campaigned for her.
Robert J. Congel, his family and associates affiliated with his development have donated $40,000 to Clinton's state and national campaigns since she first ran for office in 1999.
Congel co-hosted a Syracuse fundraiser for her, an event said to have raised an additional $50,000. Lobbying firms hired by Congel in connection with Destiny and other ventures also donated more than $200,000 to various Clinton campaign funds, records show.
LA Times

11) New School in New York City, which received $1.6 million in earmarks in this year's defense budget and $6 million previously, is particularly well-connected. Its president, former Sen. Bob Kerrey (D-Neb.), campaigned for Clinton in Iowa. Three school trustees are among Clinton's most prominent backers, having each raised at least $100,000 for her campaign. A former trustee is Norman Hsu, who was indicted on fraud charges. After Hsu's criminal past was revealed last summer, Clinton returned $850,000 he raised for her.
LA Times

12) to falsely attacking Obama as a pro-life candidate for voting "present" in New Hampshire.

13) Her husband Bill Clinton says he consulted her on every major decision. Does that include Rwanda, and his decision to stand by and watch genocide kill hundreds of thousands of people? She is firmly entrenched with Bill and the establishment, at best a dirty politician who knows everything there is to know about our political system. A vote for her is a vote for the status quo. The Republicans are so sure she is the next Democratic nominee that there's even a movie set to release.

14) http://www.hillarythemovie.com/

15) btw Bill Clinton is an experienced sexual predator with at least half a dozen rapes or assaults on women reported.
Posted by: skeyewater | January 31, 2008 10:23 AM
wanderingwill, you want a free and open campaign? Clinton's organization is by far the most padlocked. Hillary says she wants open conversation, yet she held virtually no press conferences during her Senatorial campaign and tenure in the Senate, and frequently refuses to appear on the Sunday political programs where serious issues are debated by political leaders. Someone who only answers scripted questions with pre-digested answers is hardly engaging in 'two-way' communication with the people.

Posted by: mepeter | February 9, 2008 8:05 PM | Report abuse

Records of these two candidates should be scrutinized in order to make an informed decision.

Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term (6yrs.), and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law, (20) twenty pieces of legislation in her first six years.
These bills can be found on the website of the Library of Congress (www.thomas.loc.gov), but to save you trouble, I'll post them here for you.
1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3. Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.
4. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5. Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6. Name post office after Jonn A. O'Shea.
7. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
10. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
11. Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
12. Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.
13. Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
14. Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death.
15. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty. Only five of Clinton's bills are, more substantive. 16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
17. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11
18. Assist landmine victims in other countries.
19. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
20. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.

There you have it, the fact's straight from the Senate Record.

Now, I would post those of Obama's, but the list is too substantive, so I'll mainly categorize.
During the first (8) eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced
233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.

His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These inculded
**the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law),
**The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law),
**The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate,
**The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law),
**The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee), and many more.

In all since enter the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096. An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no record according to the spin meisters and mindless twits.

Posted by: mepeter | February 9, 2008 8:03 PM | Report abuse

My wife and I live in Spokane (South Hill) and our precinct overwhelmingly was for Obama. He took 75% of the vote and 6 of the 8 delegates. Not sure what the outcomes where from the other precincts, but from what I could see around us, the majority of voters were wearing Obama stickers.

Posted by: goneyard22 | February 9, 2008 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Interviewer tries to railroad the wrong Obama supporter

Run time: 05:52

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kica8hmSdAM

Posted by: Rubiconski | February 9, 2008 7:57 PM | Report abuse

it was exhilarating to see the vashon islanders pouring into the middle school to caucus. it was by far the most satisfying voting experience i have ever had. the island went decisively for obama as in seattle.

Posted by: isabel1 | February 9, 2008 7:29 PM | Report abuse

I caucused today in South Seattle (GeorgeTown), it was amazing! They said the turnout was double then ever before! About 80% voted for Obama, myself included.

My thoughts: The Clntons had 8 years in the white house already, its time for change! Im also afraid of all the deep conections they have to special interests around the world, only a family that has spent 8 years building promises to companies and corrupt governments all over the world could raise 100 million from a Uranium mining company in Kazakhstan... scary stuff!

Posted by: sky | February 9, 2008 7:21 PM | Report abuse

If Barack Obama becomes the next US president he will surely be assassinated, British Nobel literature laureate Doris Lessing predicted in a newspaper interview today: http://comments.breitbart.com/080209175746yzhlvcyb/

Posted by: JakeD | February 9, 2008 7:21 PM | Report abuse


As a person who has attended and chaired party meetings, I can assure you the most extreme turn out. The left for Democrats. The right for Republicans.

For example: at a legislative district meeting the pro-pot forces nearly made a district party plank that candidates agree to the legalization of pot. It failed by a couple of votes. Otherwise our Democratic incumbent would have been murdered at the polls by the GOP over the issue.

Caucuses are the least realible method of picking a candidate.

Posted by: wj_phillips | February 9, 2008 7:13 PM | Report abuse

I have no idea what's happening in Eastern Washington, which is much more conservative than the western edge of the state. But the west is the most populated part, so I'd be surprised if Obama doesn't carry the whole state by a strong margin.

Posted by: SeattleVoter | February 9, 2008 7:08 PM | Report abuse

obamamania on eastside too:

Redmond cuacus - District 48, Precinct 3391:

obama: 6
clinton: 3

Posted by: jitu_p | February 9, 2008 7:04 PM | Report abuse

Here in Seattle, it's Obama in a landslide. Sample results from people I know (delegate counts)
4 to 2
9 to 2
4 to 1
6 to 2
4 to 1

you get the idea...

Posted by: amsteele | February 9, 2008 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Hey, vishalg_99, where's the Hillary Hatred you describe? I'm an Obama supporter, but I can assure you that I don't hate Hillary. If she ends up winning, I will support her against John McCain. I've definitely seen hatred (from both sides), just not here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SeattleVoter, have you heard anything about how Obama is doing in more rural areas, like Spokane?

p'dawg, portland, ore

Posted by: psyberdawg | February 9, 2008 6:55 PM | Report abuse

kat7,
I have to assume you are joking, since Obama has said -from 2002, when he opposed going into Iraq, that Iraq was the wrong target, that Iraq did not attack us.

Obama's supporters are intelligent and VERY well informed.

Posted by: julieds | February 9, 2008 6:54 PM | Report abuse

Turnout has been enormous for the Democrats. One reason, for sure, is the the built up frustration with the dangerous idiot and his criminal gang in the WH and congress. The major reason is Obama and his ability to motivate and bring new oters into the process. I think Obama will take the nomination because of these voters. If it comes down to the super-delegates, they'll have to decide if they're going with these new, motivated, idealistic younger voters or they're going to continue with more of the same old same old. The Party of the future or the Party of the past. End the Drama, Vote Obama!

Posted by: thebobbob | February 9, 2008 6:48 PM | Report abuse

>>> Vuthoori left feeling comfortable with her vote. "He's less divisive in the country, and he's more humanistic," she said of Obama. "Clinton's great, but she seems more capitalistic, more corporate. Ultimately it was more of a gut decision than an intellectual one."

These are the same type of voters who still thinks Sadam Hussien has something to do with 9/11.

May be this voter is looking for some socialist guy in the white house?

Posted by: kat7 | February 9, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

The scene that this article describes at the Queen Anne caucus is very, very similar to what happened at the caucus I attended in Capitol Hill (those are places in Seattle). Huge turnout, everybody wanting to say goodbye to the Republicans, and an overwhelming vote for Obama. In one group I saw the delegates split 9-2 in Obama's favor -- in another it was 8-3. As for the politics of race -- well, we caucused in a Black Baptist church, and out of the hundreds of people there, the vast majority were under 40, and the even vaster majority were white. Given the neighborhood -- Capitol Hill is the traditional LGBT nabe -- there were lots of lesbians & gay men voting. And it was Obama, Obama, Obama. I'd say it's gonna be a sweep.

Posted by: SeattleVoter | February 9, 2008 6:35 PM | Report abuse

I am sure there are people out there who are deciding for Hillary in just such a dramatic, hollywood screenplay type of style.
ONCE, just, ONCE I want to hear you guys talk about such Hillary supporters who are saying such quivering things. JUST ONCE. All this prejudice and Hillary hating is - boy - I am telling you, it is calcifying such tremendous scorn towards press.

Posted by: vishalg_99 | February 9, 2008 6:34 PM | Report abuse

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