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While McCain, Obama Trade Barbs on War, Voters Have Other Questions


Sen. Barack Obama D-Ill., speaks at town hall rally at Charlotte Central Piedmont Community College in Charlotte, N.C. Wednesday, March 19, 2008. (AP.)

Updated 6:52 p.m.
By Jonathan Weisman
CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- On the fifth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, presumptive Republican nominee John McCain and Democratic hopeful Barack Obama traded barbs on the war that offer a preview to the potential general election campaign.

Sen. Obama (D-Ill.) fired first with a speech in Fayetteville, N.C., in which he detailed his plans to withdraw combat forces from Iraq and mocked McCain (R-Ariz.) for saying that Shiite-dominated regime in Iran was arming Sunni-dominated al-Qaeda in Iraq. "Maybe that is why he voted to go to war with a country that had no al-Qaeda ties. Maybe that is why he completely fails to understand that the war in Iraq has done more to embolden America 's enemies than any strategic choice that we have made in decades," Obama said.

Sharp-tongued McCain aide Mark Salter fired back, "To say that invading Iraq was used as a recruiting tool for al Qaeda is one thing. To pretend that our defeat there won't provide an even bigger one is foolish supposition. Iran, which trains Shia extremists and is known to arm and equip Sunni extremists, a fact Senator Obama is apparently unaware of, will also view our premature withdrawal as a victory, as will other countries in the region, and the biggest state supporter of terrorists, a country with nuclear ambitions and a stated desire to destroy the State of Israel, will see its influence in the Middle East grow significantly."

"We wish the McCain campaign well as they try to figure out the difference between Iran and al Qaeda," answered Obama spokesman Bill Burton, trying to get the last word. "This fall, John McCain will support George Bush Foreign Policy 101: endless war in Iraq; a policy of not talking to adversaries that has not worked; and a disturbing tendency to conflate very different threats. Barack Obama will offer a clean break from the failed policies of the past."

Ironically, in the rapid-fire world of politics in the Internet age, it may be telling that amid such war arguments, and on the day after Obama delivered a potentially historic speech on race, the Illinois senator held a long, wide-ranging town hall meeting in Charlotte, N.C., this afternoon where neither issue came up.

The 1,700 or so participants who packed the gym at Central Piedmont Community College fired off questions on the environment, the Americans with Disabilities Act, immigration, unplanned pregnancies, Middle Eastern policy writ large and black-on-black crime.

But it took Obama to bring up the issues of race and war that were expected to dominate the event.

He took advantage of the broad question on his Middle East policies to talk up his plan to end the war in Iraq. And in answering the question on black-on-black crime, he quipped, "I touched on that yesterday," an allusion to his speech on race that drew a raucous, knowing applause.

His answer combined a nod to circumstances beyond the black community's control that has led to crime with a subtle chastising of inner city values. "Combine inferior schools, lack of opportunity, not much police presence, and crime breeds," Obama said.

But he added that it has become all too acceptable for young, African American women to bear children out of wedlock, and all too common for African American men to drift from the scene.

By Web Politics Editor  |  March 19, 2008; 5:18 PM ET
 
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Next: The Dalai Lama Writes McCain

Comments

My name is Coinach, the last time Bill Clinton stood for election I worked for him, I was living at that time in Oakland Cal.
Why isn't your paper interested in what is going on in Tibet ?
I am 77 year old male. I will not be watching The communist chinese Olympics. Will your readers ??

I use small print for communist china, to show my hate for the chinese communist Government,
The Chinese people, given a chance would once again be, A Proud Free People

Posted by: Coinach | April 2, 2008 11:23 PM | Report abuse

I must say indeed that as soon as I witnessed McCain making a single statement to continue Bush's war amidst other important issues and things going on within that administration during, I am personally biased against him.

If my preferred candidate loses, I'd have to vote for Hillary. I love all of my fellow military men & women even though I don't know them. I respect and value their lives, given the fact they chose to sign a particular contract. My faith personally will not allow me to vote for McCain without the weight of conscience to know that my vote aided for his win to presidency, knowing they will be condemned to Iraq, as he has stated. I love them, and I respect and value their lives beyond their signed military contract, above their will to perform this kind of duty, and I will have them know that as impressed I am of their work and capabilities, I will rather they be called when it is sincerely necessary for them to go into harm's way nowadays especially. IF McCain gets it, I shall profess to the world that my vote didn't contribute to my fellow men & women being prolonged and condemned to remain destined to go to Iraq.

I think we need to change course, definitely. Hillary understands that, Obama understands that, and McCain doesn't.

Posted by: Obama2008 | March 21, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: nurseratchet | March 20, 2008 07:43 PM

THAT "MADE HIM CRINGE" WITH THE HATE-FILLED, ANTI-AMERICAN RACIST REMARKS OF HIS PASTOR. NOW, HE CLAIMS GRANDMA IS JUST A "TYPICAL WHITE PERSON"? WHAT THE HELL IS A TYPICAL WHITE PERSON?xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxzzz
On the subject of Obama explaining his grandmother's response as being a typical White one.

As a member of a very tiny minority, a White woman married to a Black man (since 1982 when we were even a smaller minority) I have found myself stepping back from the approach of a Black man. And I have hesitated when a Black man got on an elevator when I was alone. And then I remember that I am not a typical White person and proceed, laughing at my stupidity and sad for what my husband and children face everyday.

White America needs to get over itself. Welcome to the the real world of Black America, filled with people who love, hate, laugh, cry and have prejudices, just like you!

Posted by: AverageJane | March 20, 2008 9:52 PM | Report abuse

nurseratchet; please take your YELLING to an HRC gathering. I dont get your anger. re the article; I am glad that the obvious racism ravaging the media venues was ignored pretty much in the article; although it is good Obama is not avoiding the issues about race divisions. What would be better in that regard would be for the media to at least be honest that all this hub bub about it is due to the obvious double standard, hypocrisy, and racism that passes as newsworthy as long as it isnt about the white religious fanatics who are married to white political circles. Of course Hillary isnt throwing rocks there; not because she is being decent; but then she might have to point to the hypocrisy that is furthering her chances.

Posted by: mjlocey | March 20, 2008 8:04 PM | Report abuse

OBAMA CAN'T SEEM TO TELL THE TRUTH! OBAMA, BACK-PEDDLING AGAIN! WHY CAN'T HE SAY WHAT HE MEANS THE FIRST OR EVEN THE SECOND TIME? HE THREW HIS GRANDMA UNDER THE BUS IN HIS SPEECH BY EQUATING HER RACIST REMARKS THAT "MADE HIM CRINGE" WITH THE HATE-FILLED, ANTI-AMERICAN RACIST REMARKS OF HIS PASTOR. NOW, HE CLAIMS GRANDMA IS JUST A "TYPICAL WHITE PERSON"? WHAT THE HELL IS A TYPICAL WHITE PERSON?? ONE WHO LOVES GOD, COUNTRY AND FAMILY?? ONE WHO IS DISTRESSED BY THE REPUGNANT REMARKS OF PASTOR WRIGHT? ONE WHO'S BLOOD BOILS AND HAIR BRISTLES AT THE WORDS, "GOD DAMN AMERICA"?? WELL THEN, I'VE LEARNED SOMETHING TODAY. I AM A TYPICAL WHITE PERSON WHO IS VOTING FOR ANOTHER TYPICAL WHITE PERSON, HILLARY CLINTON!

Posted by: nurseratchet | March 20, 2008 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Rugman-

Thank you for your service during a time when our country was in a conflict. Barack Hussien Obama ( I choose to invoke his middle name because if our opponents do, and we are afraid, it becomes a crutch instead of yet another testimony to his inherent diversity) would have to do more than win the Presidency to take over America. We have a set of checks and balances for a reason, though they have failed to curtail the current administration from outstepping their boundaries and broadening their powers.

I agree that the press lets us down. They let us down everyday they focus on what will get ratings instead of the issues. When they repeatedly play a rabid pastor, focus on supposedly sexist/racist comments from all sides, and effectively dilude the campaigns with meaningless drivel.

Since you have access to the internet obviously, and therefore not dependant on the media, go to unbiased sources, like the Library of Congress website, and look up Obama's record. The bills/amendments he has proposed, the ones that made it and ones that didn't, and if you leave still feeling he harbors ill will for America then that is your choice.

McCain also promoted the transparency bill I mentioned above, but that was McCain in '06, not sure who this is in '08.

Vote with a rational mind, not an irrationaly emotional one

Posted by: adidas12101 | March 20, 2008 6:22 PM | Report abuse

I' AM FROM,GA AND I. SURE WOULD HAVE LIKED
TO HAVE KNOWED BEFORE==SUPER-THUESDAY
HOW BARACK HASSEIN OBAMA/ AND HIS MINSTER
WAS PLANING ON TAKEING OVER AMERICA
I AM A KOREA WAR VET. THEY WOULD NOT
HAVE GOT MY VOTE;; YOU PEOPLE OF THE PRESS SURE LET AMERICA' DOWN OR WAS IT
OPRAH'' MONEY THAT YOU WERE AFTER//IF
OBAMA GET IT I'' WILL VOTE FOR MCCAIN
KNOWING THAT HE IS A JOKE..

Posted by: rugman | March 20, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

I' AM FROM,GA AND I. SURE WOULD HAVE LIKED
TO HAVE KNOWED BEFORE==SUPER-THUESDAY
HOW BARACK HASSEIN OBAMA/ AND HIS MINSTER
WAS PLANING ON TAKEING OVER AMERICA
I AM A KOREA WAR VET. THEY WOULD NOT
HAVE GOT MY VOTE;; YOU PEOPLE OF THE PRESS SURE LET AMERICA' DOWN OR WAS IT
OPRAH'' MONEY THAT YOU WERE AFTER//IF
OBAMA GET IT I'' WILL VOTE FOR MCCAIN
KNOWING THAT HE IS A JOKE..

Posted by: rugman | March 20, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Oh and on the sharing views thing. Servicemembers in the military fall under a different set of laws called the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Under these laws it limits our ability to voice our opinion, we sacrifice some of our rights so that you can keep yours, especially when we voice them but do not explicitly state it is our own opinion. Also technically I believe I am not allowed to speak out against those in my command, and the PROTUS(Military for President of the United States) definately falls under my chain of command, but shhhhhhh......don't tell anybody. :-)

Posted by: adidas12101 | March 20, 2008 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Obama2008, though I think your praise may be a little biased. (Poking fun at your screen name)

I acknowledged two of the fine candidates, not just one. The republicans had a chance to give us a change candidate in 2000. Someone who would have handled this conflict a 1000 times better than Bush. Now they are attempting to put him up, but he advocates more rightwing ideas because he realizes that's what lost him the nomination before. Someone who can abandon their convictions so quickly scares me.

If, god forbid, Obama does lose come the general election I will hold out hope we will get the McCain that existed before, not the tainted one I see paraded in the news today.

That said, it is my belief that Obama is what this country needs now, someone untainted by Washington beuracracy. Someone who made the intelligent and honorable decision to run their campaign bottom up, not top down, and be funded by the PEOPLE.

The only way we can ensure the government is doing what we want them to do is to improve transparency within it. Barack Obama has already done this by helping to advocate a website where the taxpayer can search and find out where their money is going.

USA - A nation of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE, and for the PEOPLE. (If I misquoted that then its an original statement and therefore I am not wrong :-) )

Posted by: adidas12101 | March 20, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Nice to meet you Rex L. I APPRECIATE your service and pass the information along to fellow servicemen. You're absolutely right, America is home and I'm on the board to help get our men & women back. Home, I feel is where you all belong. Congratulations to the military for the progress they have made since. It is time to have them come home.

I appreciate your extensive writing. I truly hope every bit of your words sank in to other readers. I wonder if there are many more like you, in the military whom would share their views. God bless you all. I am on the side to have our men & women Come Home.

=) Thanks for acknowledging one of the fine candidates. Absolutely.

Posted by: Obama2008 | March 20, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Back to The Issues. We may now reunite and focus on the woes of this country thanks to the help of our current administration. I'm listening.

Posted by: Obama2008 | March 20, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm first time I have ever posted in a blog. Feels kind of good. I guess I first want to start with this my name is Rex L. and I am currently deployed overseas in the military. Wanted to do that since you can say anything on here, but when people know who you are and you are willing to back up your convictions it matters more. Call this my virtual handshake.

Barack Obama has to be the next president. There is talk of Rezko, I see that blown up in the news all the time. Corrupt sure, but at least he only had a nominal influence on Obama's campaign. I can guarentee the corporate fat cats who are backing Clinton have done much worse, they are just better at covering it up.

The Rev. Wright....hmmmm....my mom could be considered racist. She carries with her a skewed view of latinos based on percieved affronts from when she was young. I have spent my entire life in her company, and would say that her and her experiences have shaped who I am. I do not however share her most controversial beliefs. You can love the person, the way I unconditionally love my mother, and not agree with all their ideas. It's called individualism.

Admittedly I cringed when I watched the video and heard "God Damn America" and if they had come from Barack's lips I would be calling for him to drop out as well. As a Soldier in the middle east America is home, and home is what we all hold dear and would defend with our lives. That said, the government is not what I hold dear, and the brokers on wall street who benefit when my family and friends struggle matter even less. What I hold dear is the Constitution and the idea of America. That idea is what I hear represented in Barack's words and actions. A beleif that the government is not only representative of the poeple but beholden to them. That they shoould work for the best interests of the poeple, not the people who they see everyday lobbying for this or that interest, but the people who are too busy trying to stay afloat to rush to Washington to voice their opinion.

For my last note, the war in Iraq is woking, but don't keep following what Bush tells you. He sold reasons for coming to Iraq that amounted to nothing and created a situation that is far worse than what existed before. The Iraqi government is indebted to us monetarily, and currently needs us for protection, but I guarentee no matter what we do for them we have now created a government that will side with Iran on major issues. Bush came to visit the Iraqi government and he needed severe protection and entire companies worth of security. The Iran prime minister came and they had a parade, no need for excessive security. This is a failed conflict/occupation/war and will be a sad time in our nations history, and McCain will only exacerbate that failure. Though I respect him immesely for his service, and some flip flopping aside, respect him for his beliefs. Had he been President instead of Bush maybe things would have been better now. McCain today advocates Bushlike ideas and now I can't back him morally.I am obligated to point out that these are my views and not those of the entire military.

Bless America and all its people no matter their personal opinions/beliefs.

And Bless Barack Hussein Obama, no greater agent for change and a better America has existed in recent memory.

Sorry for the long post, but like I said it's my first....I'll get better :-)

Posted by: adidas12101 | March 20, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Just answer the question that AMERICA wants answered....

IS THAT SO HARD?!?

Apparently he is waiting for the Pope himself to come out and validate his Extremism.... Thats just about the only way to save his candidacy!

Posted by: LL22102 | March 20, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

If Obama is so proud of the rev. Wright was he not at the step of the Illinois House in Springfield when he announced his candidacy. Obama chose to go to Rev, Wright's church, he chose to call him father-figure and mentor, he chose to sit in the pew and listen to his rhetoric, he chose to lie to the American people and state, I never hear anti-American hatred spewed from the pulpit, He chose to have Rezko be his friend, he chose to take Rezko donation money to help his political career. So times , one is judged by the company one keeps, and this is one of those times. If you sleep with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

Posted by: jpannebecker | March 20, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

So far, our contenders' positions on issues have been unclear, vague.

We need a strong leader who will stand For the People, not for corrupt corporations.

You can read about such a leader at http://www.lancehames.com.

Posted by: arwynna | March 20, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Obama has to explain to Americans in the next 10 contests how the Iraq War and Bush Economic policies have negatively impacted their states (i.e. Pennslyvania, North Carolina, Indiana, and the others). When you talk about what $1 to 2 trillion dollar buys you, most Americans have no clue what that amount gets you in terms of education, health care, aiding financially strapped homeowners, infrastructure improvements, research and development opportunities, energy independence and etc.?

Obama needs to give Americans a reality check on what this Iraq War has cost us. Saving this argument for McCain in the general election may be too late.

Posted by: ajtiger92 | March 20, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: davidmwe
Obama vs Clinton vs McCain- the Google Effect:
=============

OK genius...you think the fact that web traffic on a candidate's site is
necessarily a good thing? I can say I went
to Obama's site and probably googled Wright + Obama to help contribute to the google hits.
I had to see for myself on Obama's site the
endorsment of the New Black Panthers and
followed a link from the Obama site to the
New Black Panther site.

Does that mean I support the New Black Panthers? :)

Here's some numbers worth looking at:
POLLS

Clinton has large lead in Pennsylvania

After a week filled with bad news for the
Obama campaign, Hillary Clinton is out to a
56 - 30 lead in the Pennsylvania primary.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Penn_Release_031708.pdf

------------------------------------------
Clinton leads by 16 points in statewide poll

Sen. Hillary Clinton has extended her lead over Sen. Barack Obama among registered Democrats likely to vote in the Pennsylvania primary on April 22, a poll released today shows.

Clinton of New York leads Obama of Illinois by 16 percentage points -- 51 percent to 35 percent -- according to the Franklin & Marshall Poll conducted for the Tribune-Review, WTAE-TV in Pittsburgh and other news outlets. Nearly one in seven likely Democratic voters -- 13 percent -- are undecided.
--
The poll shows the percentage of Democratic voters who view Obama favorably plunged by 10 points to 47 percent since a Franklin & Marshall Poll last month. His unfavorable rating jumped from 16 percent to 25 percent.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_558179.html

Posted by: j9zig1 | March 20, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: davidmwe
Obama vs Clinton vs McCain- the Google Effect:
=============

OK genius...you think the fact that web traffic on a candidate's site is
necessarily a good thing? I can say I went
to Obama's site and probably googled Wright + Obama to help contribute to it.
I had to see for myself on Obama's site the
endorsment of the New Black Panthers and
followed a link from the Obama site to the
New Black Panther site.

Does that mean I support the New Black Panthers? :)

Here's some numbers worth looking at:
POLLS

Clinton has large lead in Pennsylvania

After a week filled with bad news for the
Obama campaign, Hillary Clinton is out to a
56 - 30 lead in the Pennsylvania primary.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Penn_Release_031708.pdf

------------------------------------------
Clinton leads by 16 points in statewide poll

Sen. Hillary Clinton has extended her lead over Sen. Barack Obama among registered Democrats likely to vote in the Pennsylvania primary on April 22, a poll released today shows.

Clinton of New York leads Obama of Illinois by 16 percentage points -- 51 percent to 35 percent -- according to the Franklin & Marshall Poll conducted for the Tribune-Review, WTAE-TV in Pittsburgh and other news outlets. Nearly one in seven likely Democratic voters -- 13 percent -- are undecided.
--
The poll shows the percentage of Democratic voters who view Obama favorably plunged by 10 points to 47 percent since a Franklin & Marshall Poll last month. His unfavorable rating jumped from 16 percent to 25 percent.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_558179.html

Posted by: j9zig1 | March 20, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

HRC is going to cackle her way to the nomination. We are fretting about remarks while her schedule shows she exaggerated her experience, is currently involved in a fraud case w/ Peter Paul, is trying to fund another primary and is lying about the MI & FL primaries to the American people and the media is caught up on the fact that people are exercise free speech and talk out against our country.
We are pathetic. We will be working for China, Russia, or India...our dollar is worth bunk, the economy is a mess because of this UNJUST war but we care that a black man spoke out against this country. wow.

Posted by: njteacher | March 20, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

What did Jeremiah Wright say that was "racist"?

Posted by: njteacher | March 20, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Voters have questions, indeed. Obama answered a few. About Tony Rezko and, brilliantly, about Reverend Wright and about earmarks, too. We still wait for Hillary Clinton to be a bit more forthcoming. The schedules she had to be forced to publish yesterday reveal nothing, only her lack of experience. As secretive as the current WH.

http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/hillary-clintons-schedules-as-first-lady-published-updated/

Posted by: old_europe | March 20, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

But voters may well have questions on how our war-threatened economy impacts on their lives.

In this newspaper, and in the Congressional Record, Nobel Economics winner Joseph Stiglitz, writing with Harvard professor Linda Bilmes, has recently come out with some astounding figures that suggest we are paying upwards of #3,000,000,000,000 in true costs for this ruinous war.

Posted by: FirstMouse | March 20, 2008 8:18 AM | Report abuse

This is insane. Barack will never sniff the presidency. Why? Because he is black. I know, that is not politically correct, but the country is 20 years away from electing a black president, if ever. Not to say that is right, but that is reality. Furthermore, we will also not elect a woman. Again, not right, but just the way it is. For those of you who cringe at the sound of John McCain, well get some earplugs because he is the next president of the United States. Mark my words, throw out the debates, throw out the campaigns, throw out all that crap. This country is not mature enough to elect a woman, or a black man.

Posted by: jason.hanover | March 20, 2008 6:17 AM | Report abuse

mnteng-Uh, Yeeeaaaahhhh!

It is my single biggest "Nancy Pelosi" about the Dimocrat Congressional Lawyers trying to get McCain's job.

Lawyer are qualified for two of three Jobs, but the Executive Post, is NOT one of them!

It has always been a Job for Military and Business people! :-)


MathewM1- Get used to it!

It is going to only get better! Try Vice President Mittster Once or Twice!

Live it, Learn IT, LOVE IT! ;~)

Posted by: rat-the | March 20, 2008 4:06 AM | Report abuse

"President" McCain? God save us from THAT!

Posted by: MatthewM1 | March 20, 2008 2:21 AM | Report abuse

How about it sv---want to do a little unpaid post-doc with me...

How about - A Seminar in the Liturgy of the fundementalist Christian church of the southern United States of America 1910- 1970, and its relationship to the common law right of public expression of faith.

Posted by: gandalfthegrey | March 20, 2008 1:46 AM | Report abuse

Well you old faker --sv you will not go to church so I'll being the church to you:


Here is a little piece by one of the founders of the Moral Majority

********************

Obama's Minister Committed "Treason" But When My Father Said the Same Thing He Was a Republican Hero
Posted March 16, 2008 | 04:23 PM (EST)

When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the "murder of the unborn," has become "Sodom" by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, "under the judgment of God." They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama's minister's shouted "controversial" comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.

Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation's sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father's sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.

Consider a few passages from my father's immensely influential America-bashing book A Christian Manifesto. It sailed under the radar of the major media who, back when it was published in 1980, were not paying particular attention to best-selling religious books. Nevertheless it sold more than a million copies.

Here's Dad writing in his chapter on civil disobedience:

If there is a legitimate reason for the use of force [against the US government]... then at a certain point force is justifiable.

And this:

In the United States the materialistic, humanistic world view is being taught exclusively in most state schools... There is an obvious parallel between this and the situation in Russia [the USSR]. And we really must not be blind to the fact that indeed in the public schools in the United States all religious influence is as forcibly forbidden as in the Soviet Union....

Then this:

There does come a time when force, even physical force, is appropriate... A true Christian in Hitler's Germany and in the occupied countries should have defied the false and counterfeit state. This brings us to a current issue that is crucial for the future of the church in the United States, the issue of abortion... It is time we consciously realize that when any office commands what is contrary to God's law it abrogates it's authority. And our loyalty to the God who gave this law then requires that we make the appropriate response in that situation...

Was any conservative political leader associated with Dad running for cover? Far from it. Dad was a frequent guest of the Kemps, had lunch with the Fords, stayed in the White House as their guest, he met with Reagan, helped Dr. C. Everett Koop become Surgeon General. (I went on the 700 Club several times to generate support for Koop).

Dad became a hero to the evangelical community and a leading political instigator. When Dad died in 1984 everyone from Reagan to Kemp to Billy Graham lamented his passing publicly as the loss of a great American. Not one Republican leader was ever asked to denounce my dad or distanced himself from Dad's statements.

Take Dad's words and put them in the mouth of Obama's preacher (or in the mouth of any black American preacher) and people would be accusing that preacher of treason. Yet when we of the white Religious Right denounced America white conservative Americans and top political leaders, called our words "godly" and "prophetic" and a "call to repentance."

We Republican agitators of the mid 1970s to the late 1980s were genuinely anti-American in the same spirit that later Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (both followers of my father) were anti-American when they said God had removed his blessing from America on 9/11, because America accepted gays. Falwell and Robertson recanted but we never did.

Posted by: gandalfthegrey | March 20, 2008 1:30 AM | Report abuse

gandalf --

You want to win so badly you'll excuse Obama for anything and everything.

America will not.

We've heard and seen more than enough.

Its over.

Posted by: svreader | March 20, 2008 01:11 AM

*******************

I'm asking you the questions listed above.

The're really rather simple questions - intended to get you (and everyone else reading these threads) to realize that you are full of beans.

Christianity of about forgiveness. I forgive Reverend Wright - although I do not know what he did except to exercise his constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech.

Maybe that's your problem svreader -- maybe you do not love our Constitution and would be willing to die for it --like was Wright was when he served 6 years as a Marine.

As usual, I end up defending the Constituion and you wish to deny an American citizen his Constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech.

Shame on you....you old faker.

How many times have you done on these boards...the old George W. Bush trick ---ready - fire - AIM!!

Answer my questions. Ever been to a southern baptist bible church?

Posted by: gandalfthegrey | March 20, 2008 1:23 AM | Report abuse

gandalf --

You want to win so badly you'll excuse Obama for anything and everything.

America will not.

We've heard and seen more than enough.

Its over.

Posted by: svreader | March 20, 2008 1:11 AM | Report abuse

Barack Obama, Don Imus must be fired for "Hateful Remarks"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TQkP5cCsWn4
Now we talk Hypocrite.

Posted by: va-us | March 20, 2008 12:49 AM

******************

As far as any of us know, MSNBC has never carried any of Reverend Wright's church sermons or university guest lectures on television.

So ---what's your point?

Posted by: gandalfthegrey | March 20, 2008 1:10 AM | Report abuse

SV --- These statements are not true --


1st point:

You wrote -- "Obama denied, then admitted, that he had knew about Wright's diatribes against America."

He did not. He said that he was not present when Wright said the things that were on the 30 second tape snippet. Then he said that he had heard Wright make some controversial remarks from the pulpit.

Hell, sv -- we've all you make some controversial remarks right here on these boards --but that does not mean that we approve of them ---or agree with you??

Of course not -- and you do not agree with me.

Why do you assume that Obama would agree with some of the stuff the Wright said?

Honestly.

svreader, have you ever talked to an African-American over a beer - or worked along side any black or brown folks? Have you spent a lifetime in the military with everyone covering each other's back?

What do you think that we talked about when we were on the line, svreader -- out there in the 1950's and 60's and 70's ??? Go watch a movie about Vietnam -- sv reader.

Hell, if you can't stand the pain - go watch Forrest Gump!

************
2nd Point:

You said "I made a mistake posting the wrong link,
but Obama made a far bigger mistake by endorsing Wright and his racist agenda, choosing him as his "spiritual advisor" and going to a racist church for 20 years."

sv - Obama was 26 years old when he meet Wright. Were you ever 26 years old? Did you ever meet, or work with someone who you learned to respect? Did that person bring you to Christ?

Did he bring you to JESUS? - svreader? Do you understand what that means?

Did that older man ever perform your marriage ceremony? Did he Baptize your two little daughters?

You need to walk a mile in Obama's shoes before you can say what he thought about Reverend Wright.

And, svreader - if I were you, I would not be calling any Christian Church a racist church. There are lots of churches in this country and many bad things have been said in them -- but a church is made up from the people who belong to it - a church is not a single priest, or minister, or pastor.

Have you ever attended a predominantly African-American church - svreader ??

***
3rd Point -
You said, "Here's a link with just a sample of the kinds of things Wright said, week after week, it one makes a far stronger case than any aritcle could, because you can see the hatred for America in Wright's face, and hear it in his voice."

svreader -- have you ever attended a predominantly African-American church? I ask you again?

How about a white fundamentalist Southern Baptist church in the deep south in the 1960's? How about the Faith Baptist Bible Church in Opp, Alabama in the hot summer of 1965?

Ever attended one of those kinds of churches? If you had - svreader - you would have heard a few bad things - mixed in with all the care and love and joy and faith. And singing! Amen!

Ever attend a real old fashioned revival - sv reader? A tent revival in the deep south? Out in a field, under the canvas with grass under your feet and the spirit in your soul?

I'll bet not.

Posted by: gandalfthegrey | March 20, 2008 12:58 AM | Report abuse

Obama on 3/14/2008:
And, even though he has been a member of Trinity United for the past 20 years, Obama said he had never witnessed Wright making such statements."Had I heard those statements in the church, I would have told Reverend Wright that I profoundly disagree with them," Obama said, adding, "What I have been hearing and had been hearing in church was talk about Jesus and talk about faith and values and serving the poor."
--http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/14/obama.minister/
----------------------
Obama on 3/19/08:
Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in the church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely.
--http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/18/AR2008031801081.html?sid=ST2008031801183
For Obama supporters: Fool you once, shame on Obama; Fool you twice, shame on you.

Posted by: va-us | March 20, 2008 12:53 AM | Report abuse

Barack Obama, Don Imus must be fired for "Hateful Remarks"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TQkP5cCsWn4
Now we talk Hypocrite.

Posted by: va-us | March 20, 2008 12:49 AM | Report abuse


CBS ON OBAMA RECORD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQxUov8F4v4


BARACK - NOTHING ON THE PAGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_6STL1O2PU

ALL TALK NO WALK - TELEPROMPTER

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgNj6nd4i4M


Posted by: Thinker | March 20, 2008 12:49 AM | Report abuse


Sorry Obamabots -

It's President McCain all the way if Obama the Liar manages to hijack this nomination. He is JUST LIKE BUSH. Too many ways to list.

Now he's playing "Poor Me" on CNN. He is shameless - on top of being a racist. He had a bad day. His deflection speech didn't work.

Twenty years in a rabid racist chursh and he never spoke out or walked out.

Twenty years and he chose to get married there - by the rabid racist.

Twenty years and he chose to have his children baptized there - by the rabid racist.

Last week - I never heard that
Yesterdday - I knew all of that, I was there.

NAFTA wink-wink
REZKO money - QUARTER MILLION ! for nothing?? ha!
AFGHANISTAN COMMITTEE BRAG - nothing for fourteen months
IRAQ - he claims he's voted against the war - he never had a vote, he was in Illinois - he misled people deliberately.

He refuses to wear a United States flag. He refuses to put his hand to his heart and pledge allegiance to that flag. And his wife has never been proud of America.

Sounds like they were in total racial agreement with their SPIRITUAL MENTOR.

I believe in God Bless America - and I BELIEVE in truth and honesty.

Mr. Obama won't be successful in stealing this election. He will not be having any inaugural ball. If the super delegates don't correct this deception and hoodwinking. John McCain will be dancing in January 2009.

I'm voting for experience and a hard worker who has helped people her whole life.

Not this self centered do nothing.

Experience in November. Hillary or McCain. My only choices.


Posted by: Thinker | March 20, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse

gandalf --

Thanks for the offer, but I don't need your help, and America doesn't need a fraud like Barry Obama.


Seth --

Rev Wright is as racist as the KKK.
He taught the members of his church to hate whites, jews, anyone different from themselves.


Obama is toast.

He talks out of both sides of his mouth.

He lied about Rezko on national TV during the debates.

He chose Rev Wright as his "spiritual advisotr"

Barry Obama isn't Black, he's a human cameleon, changing from one color to another depending on the situation, always saying what he determines the person or group he's in front of wants to hear.

Its over for Chicago Barry Obama.

Nobody likes to be played for a fool.

That's what he's done to people all his life.

His past is finally catching up with him.

And that will be the end of "Chicago Barry Obama"


Posted by: svreader | March 20, 2008 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Oh, SV, give us a break--you only started hating Obama when you saw a Chicago TV report about slums that you think he owns? Why not admit you've hated him since you realized he could win?

And--I've asked you this before--have you ever figured out how this "slumlord" managed to win so many votes from the people you think he screwed over? And endorsements from the people and papers who know him best?

Posted by: sethbullock53 | March 20, 2008 12:16 AM | Report abuse

Remember that folks --judge SVreader by what he does -- not what he says.

Wait a minute---he does not DO ANYTHING... He just says.... and says and says.

Posted by: gandalfthegrey | March 20, 2008 12:15 AM | Report abuse

DISPATCHES FROM THE GROUND WAR ...

ABC NEWS REPORTING ON HILLARY'S NAFTA FLIP FLOP...

Clinton's 1993 NAFTA Meeting
March 19, 2008

One interesting event in Sen. Hillary Clinton's just-released schedules from the 1990s comes on Nov. 10 1993, when the former first lady was to serve as the closing act during a briefing on NAFTA, the trade agreement she now assails.

11:30 am - 11:45 am

NAFTA BRIEFING DROP-BY
Room 450, OEOB
CLOSED PRESS

PARTICIPANTS: Approx 120 expected to attend
(See briefing book for further info)

FORMAT:
- Alexis Herman intros HRC for brief remarks
-HRC concludes program

(pp. 1375 and 1376)

Two attendees of that closed-door briefing, neither of whom are affiliated with any campaign, describe that event for ABC News. It was a room full of women involved in international trade. David Gergen served as a sort of master of ceremonies as various women members of the Cabinet talked up NAFTA, which had yet to pass Congress.

"It wasn't a drop-by it was organized around her participation," said one attendee. "Her remarks were totally pro-NAFTA and what a good thing it would be for the economy. There was no equivocation for her support for NAFTA at the time. Folks were pleased that she came by. If this is a still a question about what Hillary's position when she was First Lady, she was totally supportive if NAFTA.

That first attendee recalls that the First Lady's office in the East Wing put together "the invitation list, who was invited authorizations and all that stuff."

And what is this attendee's response to Clinton today distancing herself from NAFTA? "For people who worked hard to pass NAFTA and who support the importance of markets opening for the economy in the long term, they're very upset. A number of the women who were there are very upset. You need to have some integrity in your position. The Clintons when Bill Clinton was president took a moderate position on trade for Democrats. For her to repudiate that now seems pretty phony."

Recalls a second attendee, "they were looking for women in international trade who supported NAFTA. Senator Clinton came by at the end. And of course she asked for our support and help in passing NAFTA."

Women who attended that event, the second attendee says, have been incredulous to see Clinton distance herself from the trade agreement as she campaigns today. "They're all saying, 'What's this all about?' We all heard it firsthand." She says Clinton isn't being honest with voters today. ...

Posted by: Martinedwinandersen | March 20, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse

DISPATCHES FROM THE GROUND WAR ...

ABC NEWS REPORTING ON HILLARY'S NAFTA FLIP FLOP...

Clinton's 1993 NAFTA Meeting
March 19, 2008

One interesting event in Sen. Hillary Clinton's just-released schedules from the 1990s comes on Nov. 10 1993, when the former first lady was to serve as the closing act during a briefing on NAFTA, the trade agreement she now assails.

11:30 am - 11:45 am

NAFTA BRIEFING DROP-BY
Room 450, OEOB
CLOSED PRESS

PARTICIPANTS: Approx 120 expected to attend
(See briefing book for further info)

FORMAT:
- Alexis Herman intros HRC for brief remarks
-HRC concludes program

(pp. 1375 and 1376)

Two attendees of that closed-door briefing, neither of whom are affiliated with any campaign, describe that event for ABC News. It was a room full of women involved in international trade. David Gergen served as a sort of master of ceremonies as various women members of the Cabinet talked up NAFTA, which had yet to pass Congress.

"It wasn't a drop-by it was organized around her participation," said one attendee. "Her remarks were totally pro-NAFTA and what a good thing it would be for the economy. There was no equivocation for her support for NAFTA at the time. Folks were pleased that she came by. If this is a still a question about what Hillary's position when she was First Lady, she was totally supportive if NAFTA.

That first attendee recalls that the First Lady's office in the East Wing put together "the invitation list, who was invited authorizations and all that stuff."

And what is this attendee's response to Clinton today distancing herself from NAFTA? "For people who worked hard to pass NAFTA and who support the importance of markets opening for the economy in the long term, they're very upset. A number of the women who were there are very upset. You need to have some integrity in your position. The Clintons when Bill Clinton was president took a moderate position on trade for Democrats. For her to repudiate that now seems pretty phony."

Recalls a second attendee, "they were looking for women in international trade who supported NAFTA. Senator Clinton came by at the end. And of course she asked for our support and help in passing NAFTA."

Women who attended that event, the second attendee says, have been incredulous to see Clinton distance herself from the trade agreement as she campaigns today. "They're all saying, 'What's this all about?' We all heard it firsthand." She says Clinton isn't being honest with voters today. ...

Posted by: Martinedwinandersen | March 20, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse

So, SVReader, you DON'T have proof that Obama lied. What a surprise. Did you even read the link or just assume your Fox news site would give you what you wanted?

I'm wondering about how often you throw out the word racist--I'm starting to think you are doing a bit of projecting. Reverend Wright says some stuff that's out there--but most people make distinctions when throwing out loaded terms like that. Saying a white person doesn't know what it's like to be called the N-word does NOT qualify.

but we know you, and we know you'll say anything to bring down our man.

Keep it up--keep trying to kill hope for something better. And don't give up yourself--politics as usual always has a chance. Especially with people like you out there tearing down anything new or different.

Posted by: sethbullock53 | March 20, 2008 12:12 AM | Report abuse

When ever I can help you out -- just let me know. How did you like that little latebreaking story ??

BTW - Will I see you at any of Obama's inaugual balls sv?

If you need an invite give me a call. BTW, we know what your candidate is -- but I have a question - white, wheat or rye?

Posted by: gandalfthegrey | March 20, 2008 12:12 AM | Report abuse

Judge people by what the do, not what they say.

The most important thing is what a person does when the cameras aren't rolling, what the spend their time on when nobody is there to tell them how great they are for doing it.

The real person is the one we are when nobody is watching.

The real Barry Obama doesn't care about anyone but himself.

What he failed to do when it mattered the most proves that.

That's why I've spent so much time, energy, and heart-ache blogging about "Obama's Slums"

That's what crystalized it for me.

Posted by: svreader | March 20, 2008 12:10 AM | Report abuse

svreader gets it, FOX gets it,
well I guess we better just vote for the Clintons

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

So all the repubs are going to run on is a smear campaign based on race and a black pastor. Wow. that will get old fast. The right needs to move forward. FOx news is looking pathetic and desperate.

Posted by: vflex | March 19, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Gandalf --

I posted the wrong link, by mistake, in the heat of an exchange with multiple Obama-nuts.

Thanks for pointing out my error.

Here's the link I originally intended to post, a link that proves that Rev Wright gave the same hate filled speeches over and over again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc2FCJ7zWEQ&feature=related

Obama denied, then admitted, that he had knew about Wright's diatribes against America.

I made a mistake posting the wrong link,
but Obama made a far bigger mistake by endorsing Wright and his racist agenda, choosing him as his "spiritual advisor" and going to a racist church for 20 years.

Here's a link with just a sample of the kinds of things Wright said, week after week, it one makes a far stronger case than any aritcle could, because you can see the hatred for America in Wright's face, and hear it in his voice.

Thanks for helping me make my point.


Posted by: svreader | March 19, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse

We have 8 years of the mumbling moron named Bush, and to think we could have 8 more years of another mumbling moron named McCain another politician who misspeaks as often as he breathes. What an embarrassment to the country Dubya has been and to think the Repubs would elect another one who graduated bottom 5 of his class. Yeah he was a POW give him a medal, not the presidency!

Posted by: vflex | March 19, 2008 11:50 PM | Report abuse

BTW -- the whole Fox thing was based upon a report by a part-time free-lance guy in Chicago named Jim Davis -- who wrote in August of last year that he saw Obama in church on Sunday July 22, 2007 and saw him nodding his head in agreement to Wright's fiery sermon.

Then newsmax did a follow-up with out checking the story's veracity and then Bill Kristol, (very recently) of the NY Times, picked the newsmax dingy and wrote AS IT WAS FACT that Obama was at the Wright sermon.

Now, under intense public scrutiny, the original guy, Jim Davis, now says that he "threw away all his story notes" and might have the date wrong --- MIGHT?

Further he states that he attended Trinity 5 Sundays in a row in June-July, 2007 and Obama attended at least 2 of them. Obama attended 2 out of 5 sermons???

Where was he on those other Sundays???

Maybe Obama is not as regular a church goer as all these right-wingnuts and sanctimonious hypocrites claim he is.

Perhaps now we've all agreed that Obama IS NOT a Muslim...

Maybe we can give him some credit for the Sundays he didn't go to church.

Unless, of course, he might have played hooky from church to go to a mosque!!!

WAIT ------That's it. Stop the presses...Call FOX news and Bill Kristol...we've got a late breaking blockbuster.

Film at 11:00.....

Posted by: gandalfthegrey | March 19, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse

Here is a piece from a quite conservative newspaper. Note the date. The controversial Wright sermon was made on Sunday, July 22, 2007. Also click on the link to a video tape of Obama's appearance in Miami on Sunday July 22, 2007.

*****************************

Washington Times
Obama solicits La Raza backing
By Stephen Dinan
July 23, 2007

Sen. Barack Obama told La Raza in Miami Beach yesterday that he marched in an immigration rally.
________________________________________
MIAMI BEACH, Fla. -- Sen. Barack Obama told the nation's largest Hispanic advocacy group yesterday that he earned their support for his presidential campaign by marching in last year's May 1 immigrant rallies and challenged them to learn whether others met that standard.

"Find out how many senators appeared before an immigration rally last year. Who was talking the talk, and who walked the walk -- because I walked," Mr. Obama said at the National Council of La Raza's annual convention in Miami Beach. "I didn't run away from the issue, and I didn't just talk about it in front of Latino audiences." ...


Here is link to the Video made in Miami on July 22. http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1178875570?bclid=1173355318&bctid=1125998129

*******

Additonally,

"All it takes to make a mountain out of a molehill - is to add a little dirt."

SVReader and Thinker and others have used the following link to bully folks into thinking that Fox News had evidence that Obama was in Chicago the day Wright delivered his most fiery sermon. He was, but his flight took off a little after 8 am from Midway airport.

The link does lead to a 3/17/08 Fox story but the report CONFIRMS that Obama was in Miami, Florida --- I've excerpted the following from the Fox article:

..."Reports circulated over the weekend that Obama had attended the fiery sermon that day by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. But a copy of Obama's schedule viewed by FOX News as well as video of Obama speaking appear to place him in Miami that day at a convention of the National Council of La Raza.
A National Council of La Raza official recalls Obama arriving on time that day for a 1:30 p.m. event that was part of the group's annual national convention.>>>>"


http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/17/report-places-obama-at-controversial-july-07-wright-sermon-official-schedule-places-him-in-miami/

This is yet another example of the depths to which our old friend SVreader and his clones have stooped to mislead the readers of this discussion board. They must be terribly afraid of something.

What could it be?

Posted by: gandalfthegrey | March 19, 2008 11:20 PM | Report abuse

You are a moron, SVreader--even your LINK says he was in Miami. Actually it says "Miama". I doubt you know where Chicago is, but take my word for it--the sermon in question was not in Miami. I'd think you'd at least read your own link!

Posted by: sethbullock53 | March 19, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

seth --

You must have clicked on a different link, fella.

You've got it backwards.

Posted by: svreader | March 19, 2008 11:15 PM | Report abuse

Svreader, you idiot, that link you posted was to the proof that Obama was not at the Wright sermon that your idol Bill Kristol accused him of attending--even though it was a Fox news site, it had nothing damaging on Obama.

Posted by: sethbullock53 | March 19, 2008 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Obama is like a child discovering the world. Things become real the moment he stumbles with them and important when they are worth a speech to get him out of trouble!

Obama is a bright person. Let's give him more time to discover who he really is and to learn that a World Leader must be a mature person who by his acomplishments does not have to explain himself every day!

He pretends to be seasoned enough but acts like a salesman overselling a new and unknown product!

Posted by: trace-sc | March 19, 2008 10:44 PM | Report abuse

The most important thing I've learned in life is to judge people by what they do, not what they say.

Obama supporters won't believe me, but Barry Obama would have been a horrible President, just as Bush as been.

We've got huge problems facing us.

There's no substitute for knowing the details of the day-to-day operations of whatever business you're in.

Al Gore would have been a Great President.

So would John Kerry.

Hillary Clinton is going to be one of our greatest Presidents ever.

She's going to clean up the mess Bush, Cheney, and the Republicans have made.

She's going to make America great again.

If we have a landslide for the Democratic Party, its going to be good for the Republicans too, because they need a complete tear-down and rebuild and only getting defeated by a landslide will let them do that.

The people who supported Obama had good goals and good hearts.

The vision they believed in was the right one.

The problem was that they guy they were supporting wasn't the guy they thought he was.

I admire their idealism and their energy.

I hope that they put it to work rebuilding our country, starting with the slums in Chicago.

Lets make sure every American has affordable, high quality health care.

Lets make sure no American ever again dies alone, in pain, in the gutter.

Lets make America the best its ever been.

Lets do it for real.

God's Bless America.

God give us the strength, and the will, to do the hard work necessary to make poverty and hunger something that people read about in books, not live with and die from every day in America.

God bless us, each and every one!!!

Posted by: svreader | March 19, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse


OBAMA HASN'T GOT A CLUE

HE IS IN LOVE WITH THOSE TELEPROMPTERS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgNj6nd4i4M

Posted by: Thinker | March 19, 2008 10:26 PM | Report abuse

SILENCE IS COMPLIANCE

BUT TWENTY YEARS OF IT IS SOMETHING MUCH WORSE - IT'S AGREEMENT AND PARTICIPATION WITH THIS RABID RACIST

SUDDENLY MR. OBAMA HAS SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT IT? TO SAVE HIS BUTT AND FOR NO OTHER REASON.

THIS SPEECH WAS ALL ABOUT LANDMARK DAMAGE CONTROL!!!

His attempt to "CHANGE" the subject. He's pretty good at it. A real trickster.


Obama adamantly refuses to wear a lapel flag pin

Obama's wife isn't proud of America

Obama won't put his hand to his heart and pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States

We gave them the benefit of the doubt. But suddenly it all makes sense.
And not a moment too soon.

This is not guilt by association. It's guilt by sitting for twenty years and DOING NOTHING TO STOP HATE.

Isn't he a riot with all the flags around him - when he adamantly refuses to wear one!!!


WHY WAIT TO LOSE IN NOVEMBER ?

TIME TO CALL FOR RE-VOTES IN ALL THE STATES !

Obama threw his own white grandmother who gave him life under his campaign bus - no compassion for her honest fears. She could be useful.

He gave a "sermon" defending his rabid racist "spiritual adviser".
Suddenly after TWENTY YEARS he needs to save his political butt so he has something to say about this weekly racism.

LAST WEEK: I never heard those words

YESTERDAY: I heard those words, they're terrible

Wow. Audacity is right.

Obama "refused" a press conference. He "preferred" to give a Sermon - with flags and teleprompters. All of a sudden those flags are USEFUL to him.

MR. O-DRAMA

CHANGE YOU CAN'T "BELIEVE" IN

CHANGE YOU CAN HARDLY KEEP TRACK OF !!

Now that he has shnookered voters by not answering these questions for MONTHS - he is trying to prevent Michigan and Florida from having their votes counted.

ASSOCIATING WITH THIS CHURCH FOR TWENTY YEARS IS THE ULTIMATE IN POOR JUDGMENT

His campaign is toast

God HAS BLESSED America !

Posted by: Thinker | March 19, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

rat-the:

Surely you aren't suggesting that there should be separation of powers among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government (as laid out in the Constitution)! ;-)

Posted by: mnteng | March 19, 2008 10:06 PM | Report abuse

consignjp, FOX NEWS are you freakin' kidding? Or should I say FOX FEAR NEWS!!! I am an Prior Service Marine Infantry Vet of Iraq and I have been force fed FOX for years...what a bunch of crap...talk about lies...they are the most biased news base in the US by far!!

Posted by: gdc95 | March 19, 2008 9:56 PM | Report abuse

And oh yes, tonight Fox news is reporting yet another Obama connection to an extremist preacher. He has direct ties to the Obama campaign and is a superdelegate. His name Rev. James Meeks.

Posted by: consignjp | March 19, 2008 09:03 PM

New preacher not that connected and no Rev Wright. Anyway Fox is picking on the black man today.

Lib media is backing Obama on Michigan and Florida. Obama did his best smarmy A-Hole "Rules" Obama cultist impression. Lied about Hillary not wanting the del until she needed them. She did a victory lap in Florida before Feb 5. If he thinks he is going to walk away with the nomination with out counting Florida and Michigan he is smoking something.

It won't matter HRC is a lock now. Our non-incorporated territory down south is going to get her within 50 del and more popular vote.

Popular vote is what people care about.

Posted by: mul | March 19, 2008 9:31 PM | Report abuse

...sorry for the mix of past and present tense.

Posted by: brian | March 19, 2008 9:29 PM | Report abuse

I note that Clinton's calendar for Jan. 26, 1996 simply reads "No public schedule" and didn't mention her testimony that day before a federal grand jury investigating the Whitewater scandal (lots of other "convenient" redactions ; )

Posted by: JakeD | March 19, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

I don't support Hillary, but I thought having one of the first things reported is that she was in the WH during certain "encounters" was pretty tasteless and symbolic of the media's priorities.


Posted by: brian | March 19, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

mnteng-Yes I am aware that McCain got suckered into Bushie's Wrong-Headed idiocy.

Leave it to Kennedy to really get the knife in there!

However, McCain's LEGISLATING Days are about to be over! He is about to be the "Enforcer", and "Deciderer"(Say's Bushie!).

He, unlike Bushie, better deciderer to Follow His OATH of Office, and Enforce this Country's Laws-Whether HE likes them or NOT! :-(

Same applies to any President ever assuming the Job Again! THAT, is the JOB! ;~)

See, it is NOT an Immigration Issue. It is an Employment Issue! Stop Illegal Employment-They stop coming, and start leaving!

Posted by: rat-the | March 19, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

I think it is disgusting that the media is drudging up all of the Monica Lewinsky stuff again. Enough is enough and this is just another example of the media trying to make something of nothing re Hillary. If we don't what she is about by now we are all in trouble so don't waste your time boys - we've been there done that. Next.

Posted by: consignjp | March 19, 2008 9:10 PM | Report abuse

It has been shown already by real journalists that Obama is not lying about July 22. He flew out of Chicago at 8:50am...no proof that he was there...just a guess...lame...we've already moved on.

Posted by: brian | March 19, 2008 9:09 PM | Report abuse

And oh yes, tonight Fox news is reporting yet another Obama connection to an extremist preacher. He has direct ties to the Obama campaign and is a superdelegate. His name Rev. James Meeks.

Posted by: consignjp | March 19, 2008 9:03 PM | Report abuse

Just read an analysis of Hillary's WH schedule...um...where's the beef? Where's the negotiating and policy meetings with world leaders? Were is she at all those briefings? Looks like the familiar First Lady stuff.

Ouch...I think she has opened a hole in her experience argument as wide as McCain has open himself on his knowledge of terrorism and world politics...maybe she should ask Lieberman what to say?

Posted by: brian | March 19, 2008 9:02 PM | Report abuse

Boy the media is something else. I wish they would get facts straight. According to David Gergen this was Hillary's view re NAFTA and he was THERE:

GERGEN: "I was actually there in the Clinton White House during the NAFTA fight and I must tell you Hillary Clinton was extremely unenthusiastic about NAFTA. And I think that's putting it mildly. I'm not sure she objected to all the provisions of it but she just didn't see why her husband and that White House had to go and do that fight. She was very unhappy about it and wanted to move on to health care. So I do think there's some justification for her camp saying, you know, she's never been a great backer for NAFTA." [David Gergen, Anderson Cooper 360, 2/25/08]

Posted by: consignjp | March 19, 2008 8:57 PM | Report abuse

EXTREMELY DAMAGING TO OBAMA --

Barry Obama's been caught in yet another lie.

"Schedule puts Obama in Miama during July '07 Wright Sermon"

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/17/report-places-obama-at-controversial-july-07-wright-sermon-official-schedule-places-him-in-miami/


Posted by: svreader | March 19, 2008 08:07 PM

You continue to prove your ignorance. Obviously, facts do not matter. That article is referring to Wright making those remarks in Chicago while Obama was in Miami.

Posted by: roweq | March 19, 2008 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Great post, clawrence35.

Posted by: JakeD | March 19, 2008 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Wanakeeh writes: "Obama is not Wright and Wright is not Obama. Get over it. Move on."

McCain is not Bush, and Bush is not McCain either.

Senator McCain is an honorable man, a former POW who survived over 5 years of captivity and torture. A man who has worked across party lines to pass legislative solutions on the gross and corrupting influence of money in politics. A man who has consistently challenged the religious extremes within his party and time and again shown the courage to stand up and do the hard right rather than the easy wrong despite the political backlash from his parties political base. A man who speaks with authority against the use of torture because he understands first hand the dire implications and devaluation of the moral authority of a society that tolerates its use. An honorable man who acknowledges he is a flawed servant to a nation and its ideals, and is humble in his long service toward the debt owed for all the opportunities this nation has provided to him and his family.

Senator Obama is a fraud, who gives new meaning to just words when ever the situation politically suits him. He is not Wright, but he is a disciple of his chosen mentor who has tolerated the vile and hateful filth for more than 20 years without ever speaking up. He is unfit to be a squad leader much less Commander in Chief of our Armed Forces. Obama is a fatally flawed candidate who should finally do the honorable thing and acknowledge that he is unelectable, and allow the Democratic Party a candidate with a fighting chance. The press will not acknowledge it, but if a white candidate had a similar 20+ year relationship with a race-based church who's spiritual leader had stated similar anti-American and racist comments, they would be finished. The press doesn't decide who gets elected, and the American people will not allow them to gloss over the many contradictions of Senator Obama's record, or his lack of accomplishments and inexperience, with a few words, no matter how eloquent or well delivered.

Posted by: clawrence35 | March 19, 2008 8:51 PM | Report abuse

Is Obama really this stupid? He "mocked McCain for asserting that pre-dominantly Shiite Iran was funding and training Al-Qaeda."

What fricking planet has this idiot been living on? OF course, intelligent observers understand that Wahabbism is a Sunni sect and that Al-Qaeda types and Shiites are not the best of friends.

That certainly does NOT mean that the Iranian government hasn't tried to help Al-Qaeda in its fight against the United States. Iran has been the premiere state sponsor of terrorism for decades. They've given safe haven to Al-Qaeda members for years and have undeniably been providing training and assistance to Al-Qaeda under the old doctrine, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Only a naive fool would say something so ignorant.

Next think you know, he'll be saying that we should pull all of our troops out of Iraq and invade Pakistan...

Posted by: ds11 | March 19, 2008 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Women's Right
Civil Rights
Voting Rights
Abortion Rights

What Party has historically been better at protecting these rights for people?

Democrats.

Dissent is healthy within a Party, and this election is not about Hillary versus Obama, it's about Democrat versus Republican.

Hillary or Obama, or both.

Posted by: getcentered | March 19, 2008 8:31 PM | Report abuse

Jonathan Weisman if you are going to report this event please report it accurately. It only fuels misguided perceptions when you take bits and pieces and have people start a "Oh see that Barack Hussein Obama, bad bad man, I told you so party."

Reading some of these blogs furthers my mind set that Obama is the right choice for presidency. The fact that most who have so much negative to say but was not present for the Town Hall meeting sounds off plan ignorance.
They have nothing on him! So they continue this Rev. Wright mess to the tenth power and it's old news. How about talking about this wonderful idoit of president we have in office as we blog. No, because everyone knows he's an idiot and that wouldn't be news or misguiding.
This was History for me. I was on the first floor and if asked a question by any reporter on Obama's issues and policy's trust me I was ready to educate. But for those of you who still have trouble understanding go to his website and READ for yourself. While your looking go over to Hillary's and see how many times she went to lunch while getting all this experience.
We need to get past these small issues before we make another mistake our children can not afford!
VOTE OBAMA 2008

Posted by: trhook43 | March 19, 2008 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Jonathan Weisman if you are going to report this event please report it accurately. It only fuels misguided perceptions when you take bits and pieces and have people start a "Oh see that Barack Hussein Obama, bad bad man, I told you so party."

Reading some of these blogs furthers my mind set that Obama is the right choice for presidency. The fact that most who have so much negative to say but was not present for the Town Hall meeting sounds off plan ignorance.
They have nothing on him! So they continue this Rev. Wright mess to the tenth power and it's old news. How about talking about this wonderful idoit of president we have in office as we blog. No, because everyone knows he's an idiot and that wouldn't be news or misguiding.
This was History for me. I was on the first floor and if asked a question by any reporter on Obama's issues and policy's trust me I was ready to educate. But for those of you who still have trouble understanding go to his website and READ for yourself. While your looking go over to Hillary's and see how many times she went to lunch while getting all this experience.
We need to get past these small issues before we make another mistake our children can not afford!
VOTE OBAMA 2008

Posted by: trhook43 | March 19, 2008 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Jonathan Weisman if you are going to report this event please report it accurately. It only fuels misguided perceptions when you take bits and pieces and have people start a "Oh see that Barack Hussein Obama, bad bad man, I told you so party."

Reading some of these blogs furthers my mind set that Obama is the right choice for presidency. The fact that most who have so much negative to say but was not present for the Town Hall meeting sounds off plan ignorance.
They have nothing on him! So they continue this Rev. Wright mess to the tenth power and it's old news. How about talking about this wonderful idoit of president we have in office as we blog. No, because everyone knows he's an idiot and that wouldn't be news or misguiding.
This was History for me. I was on the first floor and if asked a question by any reporter on Obama's issues and policy's trust me I was ready to educate. But for those of you who still have trouble understanding go to his website and READ for yourself. While your looking go over to Hillary's and see how many times she went to lunch while getting all this experience.
We need to get past these small issues before we make another mistake our children can not afford!
VOTE OBAMA 2008

Posted by: trhook43 | March 19, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Democrats ROCK!!!!!!!!!!

A historic day for Democrats!

Obama made an amazing speech! I have never heard any politician speak so candidly and clearly about ANY topic, much less the state of racism in America.
MAJOR APLAUSE FOR BARRAK OBAMA!!

I like how eloquently Hillary Clinton commented and plugged him for his speech. She knows Barrack summed up the topic of racism so well, that she let it stand as is.

Very graceful of her!

I'd love to see a Republican address this subject in such a direct and intelligent way.

The GOP will be HURTING in the next elections!!!!

The GOP/Republican tools on these forums wouldn't dare talk about Republicans and their failed policies. Instead they help themselves feel better about blind support for the Republicans, by attacking Democrats while trying to fan the flames of dissent within the DNC.

Well now I know, a vote for a Republican is literally a vote for hate, ignorance and misguided spending on a unnecessary war in Iraq, which causes more hate......

Posted by: getcentered | March 19, 2008 8:22 PM | Report abuse

A series of NINE general election polls today are remarkably consistent in showing Obama plunging and McCain on the rise, sometimes dramatically so. Full roundup of the polls (including two from Ohio) available here: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2008/03/mccain-rises-and-obama-plunges-in.html

Posted by: campaigndiaries | March 19, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

EXTREMELY DAMAGING TO OBAMA --

Barry Obama's been caught in yet another lie.

"Schedule puts Obama in Miama during July '07 Wright Sermon"

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/17/report-places-obama-at-controversial-july-07-wright-sermon-official-schedule-places-him-in-miami/

Posted by: svreader | March 19, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

Was Obama talking out of both sides of his mouth during his Big Speech? This comment from someone seems quite insightful:

http://fray.slate.com/discuss/forums/thread/1003712.aspx?ArticleID=2186845

Posted by: LonewackoDotCom | March 19, 2008 7:51 PM | Report abuse

The invasion of Iraq violates International law established by the UN Charter which we ratified in 1945 making it US LAW!!!!. The Bush Admin and politicians like McCain are to blame. McCain knows better than to support this war... he just wanted to win the conservative vote that he couldn't get in the 2000 primary by siding with Bush...I am a USMC Infantry Vet from Iraq and I am ashamed that McCain still advocates for this war...

Posted by: gdc95 | March 19, 2008 7:47 PM | Report abuse

His answer about teen pregnancy was not specific to African-American young women. He was talking about the need for all young girls to feel they have a future, to be educated so that they may achieve it, and to be helped by their parents to be strong, vibrant members of society.

It was a wonderful meeting. He let us set the agenda. The crowd was full of people of many colors, ages, genders. We were all cheering for our future.

Posted by: dmla | March 19, 2008 7:46 PM | Report abuse

The invasion of Iraq violates International law established by the UN Charter which we ratified in 1945. The Bush Admin and politicians like McCain are to blame...

Posted by: gdc95 | March 19, 2008 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Weisman, bad reporting; Michael Blunt, thanks for corrected report from an Obama supporter. Weisman, saying folks aren't interested in Iraq when they're asking questions about solving the Middle East disaster is like saying people don't care about vision coverage when they ask about health care! All, please note that there will be no resolution of the waste in the military budget, no removal of paid mercenaries and mercenary contractors, so long as you vote for McCain or Clinton. Clinton owes her soul to the military contractors - that's why she won't release her earmarks, and why she loves lobbyists so much. Only Obama will be able to rejuvenate the armed SERVICES by getting our troops out of Iraq and taking aim at those who attacked us.

Posted by: VCubed | March 19, 2008 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Republican hogwash and GOP propaganda, same stale arguments they've be rehashing year after year since this war began. Perhaps Salter would like to elaborate how we are going to pay for a war that is consuming 12 billion a month, all of it borrowed from the Chinese and other Asian counties.
What ever happed to the republican party as the party of fiscal discipline. The GOP seems more like the borrow and spend party to me.

Posted by: personal109 | March 19, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Obama is not Wright and Wright is not Obama. Get over it. Move on. Getting back on the issues is important. All the fearmongers out there have Limbaugh and Hannity to keep them company.
Hating someone based on their name, ethnicity, race, gender, disability, or whatever, is way too prevalent in the angry posts. Seems most of you are right at home with Reverend Wright and those 2 nuts who endorsed John McCain!

Posted by: wanakeeh | March 19, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Obama is not Wright and Wright is not Obama. Get over it. Move on. Getting back on the issues is important. All the fearmongers out there have Limbaugh and Hannity to keep them company.
Hating someone based on their name, ethnicity, race, gender, disability, or whatever, is way too prevalent in the angry posts. Seems most of you are right at home with Reverend Wright and those 2 nuts who endorsed John McCain!

Posted by: wanakeeh | March 19, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Obama is not Wright and Wright is not Obama. Get over it. Move on. Getting back on the issues is important. All the fearmongers out there have Limbaugh and Hannity to keep them company.
Hating someone based on their name, ethnicity, race, gender, disability, or whatever, is way too prevalent in the angry posts. Seems most of you are right at home with Reverend Wright and those 2 nuts who endorsed John McCain!

Posted by: wanakeeh | March 19, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Obama is not Wright and Wright is not Obama. Get over it. Move on. Getting back on the issues is important. All the fearmongers out there have Limbaugh and Hannity to keep them company.
Hating someone based on their name, ethnicity, race, gender, disability, or whatever, is way too prevalent in the angry posts. Seems most of you are right at home with Reverend Wright and those 2 nuts who endorsed John McCain!

Posted by: wanakeeh | March 19, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Obama is not Wright and Wright is not Obama. Get over it. Move on. Getting back on the issues is important. All the fearmongers out there have Limbaugh and Hannity to keep them company.
Hating someone based on their name, ethnicity, race, gender, disability, or whatever, is way too prevalent in the angry posts. Seems most of you are right at home with Reverend Wright and those 2 nuts that endorsed John McCain!

Posted by: wanakeeh | March 19, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Wait wait wait wait! I was just there!! Foremost, I'm a HRC supporter and went because I like both candidates. It did NOT take Obama to bring up the race issue. A black man in a yellow shirt stood up and ask as question on how he was going to help get rid of black on black crime. He said, "I touched on 'something' like that yesterday." We all interupted him and appluaded on his speech yesterday, then he went on with about 5 different points to explain, not black on black crime, but to explain "how" blacks got to where they are now, and what we can do to solve that. He took about 10-15 minutes to answer the question with as much detail as he did to answer the Dafur question, and plan for pulling out in Iraq question. To paraphrase his answer, he spoke about education, teachers, money, after school programs, curriculum change, and the most important thing...the moral obligation of us. Meaning, as many programs as he may put in place and as many schools that he may create, it means nothing unless we have buy in from the parents and they take a more active role in governering our communities and children. Him coming into the office is not going to be a panecia for race, education, and crime. It starts with us and we can move forward. I HATE SOUND BITES!!

Jonathan Weisman if you are going to report this event please report it accurately. It only fuels misguided perceptions when you take bits and pieces and have people start a "Oh see that Barack Hussein Obama, bad bad man, I told you so party."

Posted by: MichaelABlunt | March 19, 2008 7:05 PM | Report abuse

I want to know why no one cares that Obama don't solute our flag or put his hand on the bible and we want him to be our president? ????

Posted by: etandwillis | March 19, 2008 7:05 PM | Report abuse

Why does a guy of 72 years old generally retires in the real life while one is running for election for the most difficult job? McCain has shown trace of senility recently by his comments in Jordania accusing Iran to train Al Quaeda figthers and being wrong about the religions of the guys involved. He was corrected by Liberman who was standing beside him. This senility will increase rapidly from now to the moment when a President McCain will have to take critical decisions. McCain is a good guy but just missed the boat in 2000. Now he is a danger for people who will be depending on him as commander in chief.

Posted by: Logan6 | March 19, 2008 6:45 PM | Report abuse

The latest video of Rev Wright is extremely upsetting.

The fact that Obama chose him as his "spiritual advisor" speaks volumes about Obama's true beliefs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc2FCJ7zWEQ&feature=related

Posted by: svreader | March 19, 2008 6:45 PM | Report abuse

This is why no one with a shred of decency will not touch the Presidency. Americans hold the Presidency to a standard and expectation that is impossible for any human being to uphold. So a Presidential candidate cannot ever make a mistake or have people in his life who's views he disagrees with? I LISTENED to Rev. Wright speeches and was not offended. I didn't agree with everything just some things. I think this whole thing is being blown WAY out of proportion. When it comes to leadership America gets what it deserves because anytime someone decent comes along we assasinate him now we're just doing it with words. People were worried that Obama would be assasinated by hatemongers well I feel its happening to him now.

Posted by: Carolp23 | March 19, 2008 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Forget "The Math," let's see who can do Algebra:

McCain + Clinton = Votes for War

2 * (Vote For War) - 1 * (Complain Later) = War

War = -$3 Trillion

-$3 Trillion / Every Man, Woman and Child in America = -$10,000

Bush / McCain * Wasting $10,000 Of Each Taxpayer's Money / 4000 Dead Soldiers = 30% Approval Rating

170 Delegate Obama Lead + Pennsylvania = 160 Delegate Obama Lead

The solution?

Obama = Next President

Posted by: fairbalanced | March 19, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

rat-the:

Uh, you've heard of the McCain-Kennedy immigration bill, right? Or do you believe McCain has truly flip-flopped on this issue in the last couple of years?

Posted by: mnteng | March 19, 2008 6:25 PM | Report abuse

But the war is a sexy item. Of course that will get the press and the real barbs...

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Posted by: parkerfl | March 19, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Posts like this are a new MSM subgenre: they discuss regular citizens asking the candidates questions, but they rarely reveal what those questions were and they never discuss how the candidate likely lied.

And, the MSM hack never has a followup.

So, should Jonathan Weisman decide to become a real reporter, let me offer a few things he could ask Obama:

1. Senator Obama, why did you lie about Lou Dobbs' position on deportations?

2. Senator Obama, doesnt't the language in a bill you co-sponsor conflict with statements you made at a recent debate, regarding the impacts of illegal aliens on low-wage workers? ( http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/007530.html )

3. How many years would it take to legalize all the millions of illegal aliens you want to legalize, or how superficial would the backgroundchecks be? Because, it's one of those two ( http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/007470.html ).

Maybe Jonathan Weisman could pay a regular citizen to ask one of those questions, because I don't think he has the journalistic integrity to do it.

Posted by: LonewackoDotCom | March 19, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

McCain is in the Middle East taking care of business?! (says "rat-the")

America is our business(.)

Posted by: davidmwe | March 19, 2008 5:45 PM | Report abuse

"But it took Obama to bring up the issues of race and war that were expected to dominate the event"
============

Expected by whom? Mr Weisman? Perhaps there is a lesson there.

Posted by: zukermand | March 19, 2008 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Meanwhile, President McCain is in the Middle East, "Taking care of Business",

While Barack Hussein and Billary are "Living in the Past"!

All while Rat sings: "If Jesus Saves", while thinking about Evangelicals in general! ;~)

Posted by: rat-the | March 19, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

"Live by the sword, die by the sword"- of course there will be dangers in ending an occupation, an un-warranted war. Yet with that said, we need to worry about America and stopped the seriously festering wounds from bleeding and get our deficit and economy back in order. This is exactly why Barack Obama will win in November (Unless Hillary can get FL and MI);

Obama vs Clinton vs McCain- the Google Effect:

http://newsusa.myfeedportal.com/viewarticle.php?articleid=76

Posted by: davidmwe | March 19, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Well Mr. Weisman, seems you also like to promote the Issues you want to as well.

What about actually prying answers to the people's questions, not sucking up to Obsama's dodge of one-"Oh, I already answered that".

Because in TRUTH, he DID NOT!

Truth, just as he has retrogressed into the Black Community for the Political Advantages and leverages, so too do many other Blacks.

NOBODY forces them to keep themselves so dense, and isolated. THEY, like Obasama, do it for many of the same reasons. Political strength, Hide in Numbers, and it is where the benefits are!

Go out and be a Regular American? NOOOO WAAAYYY!

Immigration? Oh Barack has a solution! Amnesty! Now we don't have to do any of that nasty other stuff like Enforce the Laws-THAT THE PRESIDENT SWEARS TO DO!

And I already am mad at Bushie folks! ;~)

Posted by: rat-the | March 19, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

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