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Obama, Post-Debate, Decries "Gotcha Games"

By Shailagh Murray
RALEIGH, N.C. -- A woman took the microphone at a town hall meeting here and stated the obvious to Sen. Barack Obama about last night's ABC News debate.

"You were really pummeled," she told the Illinois senator. All those questions on William Ayers, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, flag pins and guns made her wonder about the general election attacks yet to come. "What is your strategy to beat the Republicans in November?" the woman asked Obama.

"That was the roll out of the Republican campaign against me," Obama responded. "That is what they will do. They will try to focus on all these issues." He said he would answer the attacks "sharply and crisply," and seek to turn the debate from "tit-for-tat silliness" to serious issues like the economy and Iraq. "If Republicans come at me, I will come right back at them," Obama asserted, to loud cheers.

Offstage, campaign advisers seemed taken aback by the negative reviews of Obama's performance that filled the cable airwaves and blogosphere this morning. They believed Obama got a tougher grilling than Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, but chalked it up to his new front-runner status. In their view, Obama had responded reasonably well -- and surely better than in earlier debates, when his low-impact style could seem soft compared to Clinton's bite.

"I'm not whining about it," shrugged David Axelrod, Obama's political adviser. "We showed up."

For Obama, the debate provided a fresh illustration of one of his underlying campaign themes, that Washington had lost touch with the rest of the country. "Washington hasn't gotten the news yet that people want something different," the candidate told the Raleigh crowd. "Last night we set a new record. It took us 45 minutes ... before we heard about health care. Forty-five minutes before we heard about Iraq. Forty-five minutes before we heard about jobs. That's how Washington is," Obama said.

It's a town of "gotcha games," "anything goes," and "slash-and-burn politics," and Obama added, "Sen. Clinton looked in her element" on the ABC stage last night, as Obama grappled with questions about why he doesn't wear a flag pin his on his lapel, the Wright scandal redux, and Obama's relationship with Ayers, a prominent Chicago resident who had been a member of the radical '60s terrorist group the Weathermen.

The crowd erupted. "That's her right, to twist the knife a little bit," Obama continued. "That's how our politics has been taught to be played."

Obama will hold two town-hall meetings today in North Carolina before flying to Erie, Pa., where he begins a five day road-and-rail trip across the Keystone State, ending Tuesday, the day of the Pennsylvania primary. North Carolina represents the more hospitable to Obama of the two May 6 states; polls show him holding a steady lead over Clinton, although a significant fraction also remains undecided. In the second state, Indiana, Clinton holds a slight edge, although recent surveys suggest the race there may be tightening.

Obama told the Raleigh crowd that he expected a hard fight, but his tone suggested that last night's 21st Democratic debate could prove to be the last. Asked by another audience member if he would agree to a North Carolina debate before the May 6 primary here, Obama sounded less than enthusiastic, suggesting the sessions had become time consuming and repetitive.

"It's not like we don't know how to do these things," he said. "I can deliver Sen. Clinton's lines, she can deliver mine."

Whatever the fate of the debate, Obama told an overflow crowd gathered outside in Raleigh, "North Carolina is going to be critically important. If we can win in North Carolina, I think we can wrap up this nomination."

By Web Politics Editor  |  April 17, 2008; 4:30 PM ET
 
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Next: Say 'She's Really Nice,' Clinton Tells Supporters

Comments

jk- mccaskil or seballius- wow then we will have a ticket of President and VP both of whom have practically no experience on the International Scene. That is a joke.

The gotcha games have been going on in debates all year long- this is the first time they were focused on Obama and the whining is loud. They were so bad against Hillary that Saturday Night Live did a skit on them- and to the person who said Hillary asked for that- no they did it becasue they watched the debates.

I don't like it when they do debates this way but Obama better get ready to answer these questions whoever puts them to him. He was totally unprepared in the last debate for what he should have known was coming be it from the media or the Republicans.

Obama is a neophyte and he shows it again and again. Today he praised John McCain as better than Bush. Well the only way we will beat McCain is to call him Bush three. Don't give things away that you don't have too. Between his reverends, "don't punish my daughters with a baby" , cling to religion and guns, I don't wear American Flags and his wife's "This is the first time I am proud to be an American" Obama and his supporters have written the Republican commercials.

One great quote that Hillary has from McCain is his statement that she is prepared to be President- Obama will never get that from McCain.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 21, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

If a flag on your lapel indicates your patriotism, then both Charlie and George are not patriots ! !

Besides that, as President Theodore Roosevelt said:

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country."

So, be specious and war your flag pins, it is irrelevant.

Posted by: swanieaz | April 19, 2008 9:22 PM | Report abuse

adult-diapers , adult-diaper

Posted by: diaper | April 19, 2008 8:27 PM | Report abuse

adult-diapers , adult-diaper

Posted by: diaper | April 19, 2008 8:27 PM | Report abuse

adult-diapers , adult-diaper

Posted by: diaper | April 19, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

adult-diapers , adult-diaper

Posted by: diaper | April 19, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

adult-diapers , adult-diaper

Posted by: diaper | April 19, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

adult-diapers , adult-diaper

Posted by: diaper | April 19, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

To:
April who wrote this lovely post (pasted below) and many other "intelligent" writings here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Starts with "c," rhymes with "bunt,"
That Hillary, she's such a ...

Posted by: | April 18, 2008 3:22 PM

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wow, I thought living brain donors were an endangered species, but you are here to prove me wrong!!

According to your Messiah, he wants to bring happy change and unity, Koolaid for everyone.............. so you must be an example of the change we have been waiting for as evident in your happy loving posts here? No thanks! You people have turned millions of Democrats off with the personal attack posts you write all over the internet.
So, is the Obama-asylum missing another idiot....have you been let out to clean up another of his poopy Messiah diapers after his pathetic attempt to defend himself in the debate??
My dear you really need to go back to school, after reading ALL of your posts you can't spell and you lack insight and logic, not to mention political understanding. Your final desperate post above just tells me you are a filthy little pig and typical of the many Obamanoids. Ever wonder why Hillary supporters will vote McCain over Obama if he steals the nomination by cheating Florida and Michigan out of a re-vote? You and your filthy little droids have successfully driven away CORE democrats with your vile nasty personal attacks on a former FIRST LADY.
How do you like your Dear Leader's chances come November? Feel it all slipping away, do you? Wasn't it only yesterday, right after Iowa, that you had that giddy feeling of...of...well, HOPE and CHANGE? The taste in your juvenile mouth must be quite bitter these days, not feelin all "Hopey Changey" now are we? Oh, it's going to be brutal, But try to learn from it, and to grow..................


Posted by: BYE BYE BAMA | April 19, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

I congrat George and Charlie, I thoroughly enjoyed the debate, the country is talking about the very things, they asked questions about. Evidently, the campaign don't have clue. Because they are so busy looking at data, polls, areas to go to, they forget people really vote on what they can see. I saw aloof, not informed candidate the man, not the woman, that said they like "George that what I am talking about". I is evident he must have crowd or he can't get answer together. he was testy, there muscles in jaw, tight muscles, he looked and acted inexperienced. To borrow some his words he had nothing to "cling" to. The moderator was on him like a roach on a piece of bread, in other words, he couldn't shake them off. There is rap song out there about dusty off your shoulder and it is very provcative. That is street sign, I quess us typical people shouldn't know that.

Posted by: CRMcneal | April 19, 2008 7:13 AM | Report abuse

this article is from the Electronic Intifada written by Ali Ahbumina about obama and his Up front rethorics (lies)
"Over the years since I first saw Obama speak I met him about half a dozen times, often at Palestinian and Arab-American community events in Chicago including a May 1998 community fundraiser at which Edward Said was the keynote speaker. In 2000, when Obama unsuccessfully ran for Congress I heard him speak at a campaign fundraiser hosted by a University of Chicago professor. On that occasion and others Obama was forthright in his criticism of US policy and his call for an even-handed approach to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

The last time I spoke to Obama was in the winter of 2004 at a gathering in Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood. He was in the midst of a primary campaign to secure the Democratic nomination for the United States Senate seat he now occupies. But at that time polls showed him trailing.

As he came in from the cold and took off his coat, I went up to greet him. He responded warmly, and volunteered, "Hey, I'm sorry I haven't said more about Palestine right now, but we are in a tough primary race. I'm hoping when things calm down I can be more up front." He referred to my activism, including columns I was contributing to the The Chicago Tribune critical of Israeli and US policy, "Keep up the good work!"

But Obama's gradual shift into the AIPAC camp had begun as early as 2002 as he planned his move from small time Illinois politics to the national scene. In 2003"

Posted by: ruthmatters | April 19, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse

Ikenna Ododozie, while I don't believe in tit for tat - do you remember when Obama praised Regan (a republican) and bashed Pres. Clinton? What's the difference between that and Hillary's "praise" of McCain?

Posted by: elvira | April 18, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

If they had grilled Clinton for 2 hours on Bosnia Gate, Tax Returns Gate, Mark Penn Gate and being in the WH during Monica Gate, there would be no complaints from Obama, the press and Obama's supporters on here.
What you folks don't get is that the media is to be blamed in the divide in the democratic party. We should not cheer or join in the attacks on either candidate, we should denounce them and if we had, a democrat would be taking the oath come 1/21/09, instead of McCain. We BLew IT.

Posted by: Anyone There? | April 18, 2008 10:22 PM | Report abuse

The media has been treating Sen.Clinton poorly and have been dishing out rubbish throughout the primary season just to stir up the supporters of both candidates. While, I feel that Sen. Obama has been getting an easier ride with the media - wasting 45 mins on nonsense is beyond contempt. I plea to the supporters of both Senators to not let the media and McCain win. I support both candidate.

Posted by: Dee | April 18, 2008 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Jacksmith, give it up. There is no longer any "might be" about it, not with you...

Posted by: You Are Without Any Shadow of Doubt An Idiot | April 18, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Starts with "c," rhymes with "bunt,"
That Hillary, she's such a ...

Posted by: Anonymous | April 18, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Don't believe the hype about Barack having a bad night! He held up like the champ that he is, in a fight that was essentially three against one. For almost an hour both moderators and Hilary grilled him with negative attacks about irrelevant BS like "lapel pins", the "bitter" comment, Rev. Wright, and one attack that came directly from an extreme right-wing talk show host, via one of the moderators, about his former casual affiliation with a radical member of The Weather Underground Group (two associates of which President Clinton pardoned). Please note that Barack has already eloquently and effectively addressed these "issues" and holds his position in all of these "issues" brought forth, as he has no reason to back down since he's committed no offense and since there is no real sustenance to any of it...just a bunch of malarkey! Please note that Hilary issued an apology for her bold-faced lie about "ducking sniper fire in Bosnia", which she repeated more than a few times.

When discussing the real issue about the economy, the war, Americans' apathy about politics, dirty politics, division in the country, and so on, Barack laid out his position/plan openly and honestly, and without negativity. Hilary tried ("tried" because Barack nipped her attempts in the bud by pointing out the ruse and staying above her low level [I believe, in one instance, he used the word "magical" to describe her claim that her lack of a plan is somehow "better than his proposed one]) to attack Barack's plans without putting forth legitimate proposals of her own. When she did describe her position, about the war for instance, she made the biggest blunder of the night, extending The United States' responsibilities, and protection of other countries far pass the alliances we currently have in place, and threatening pre-emptive war in retaliation against Iran, if Iran attacks Israel (Please note Iran has not attacked another country in over two centuries).

So, think about it, Barack withstood a three-on-one attack for an hour, and not only held his composure, but made poignant points in the process. I wouldn't call that a "bad night" by far. Quite the contrary, it more so accentuates his brilliancy, and leadership skills. Moreover, I'd call that "floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee"! I think many others are not falling for the farce, as evident from the fact that Barack has picked up even more key endorsements and now leads Hilary in terms of support from elected super delegates since last night's debate.

One Love,
ZiN

Posted by: ZiN | April 18, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

I'm sick of so many democrats using the tired excuse, "If Barack can't handle us, how is he going to handle the republicans?", to justify their disgusting behavior, as if the republicans are so much worse than they are. I don't think that any group of people are better or worse than another. The republicans are already doing and saying everything they can do and say. They are not the ones to watch out for. What's happening with a lot of democrats is what's notable. It's precisely the problem that hinders progress: subtle discrimination and underlying resentment. Open and honest disdain, such as that expressed by some extreme right-wing republicans can be addressed much easier than that which is secret, hidden, and/or denied. I don't think the democrats launching the ignorant negative attacks are any better than the republicans. In fact, I think what's more damaging and insulting is your so-called ally who harbors ill will towards you - pointing the finger at the other guy to look out for, as if you're too stupid to see him holding the knife to stab you in the back while he's standing right in front of you. I have more respect for someone who is upfront about her feelings towards me, who isn't in a state of denial about her issues, than for someone who claims to be for me, while consciously or subconsciously trying to undermine my success because she refuses to face her own fears. When all this is said and done, I hope it's remembered that, with their negative attacks and low blows, it was just as much the democrats as it was the republicans who dug the hole and gathered the stones for Barack's empty grave, so that the denials that hinder progress can be denied no more, and we can take our next step into Truth. One Love,ZiN

Posted by: ZiN | April 18, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

If Hillary advised Bill to "Screw Them" referring to working class voters in 1995, then the Obama campaign should run a TV ad about it. If they hit you, hit them back harder (as Bill Clinton has said). The Republicans, with Cable TV front men like rabble rouser Sean Hannity, are going after Obama because they fear him more than Clinton. They're sure they can defeat her in November. Obama is the real threat to McCain. I'm a private practice physician and an Independent voter who won't mind paying slightly higher taxes if it helps restore the greatness of our nation. I'm politically conservative in many ways, yet Obama represents my ideals more than any other candidate since JFK. I have confidence in his honesty, integrity, and judgment, and that he'll truly attempt to reform the politics of Washington and restore the spirit of our country. I don't see one Cable or network news program speaking up for or favoring Obama at this critical time. Thank god for David Gergen, and to some extent Candy Crowley, but Anderson Cooper and CNN seem to have shifted in the past few days. MSNBC has become slanted toward Clinton. Pat Buchanan is clearly anti-Obama and pro-Clinton, like his friend John McLaughlin. The pundits are getting their debate analysis wrong. Obama took the blows and countered well. As Sinatra sang about his life - he took the blows and did it "my way" - Obama is doing the same. Sinatra prevailed and I pray Obama will too - that he will gain the nomination and go forth to slay the dragon in November. Hillary, on the other hand just turns me off - do I need to count the ways?

Posted by: Joe | April 18, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

My two cents worth on the ABC democratic "debate". I just watched via a
taped recording, and have contacted 20 or so friends to see if my opinion
is off base. As it turns out, it isn't. I (we) have never seen anything on network
television so obviously planned to destroy a candidate. And as it turns out,
I and the friends contacted all agree that so far as we are concerned, the
plan, hatched by Stephanopoulos no doubt, has backfired. Where some of
us were for Clinton, now we're all for Obama. While George Stephanopoulos
is on the ABC payroll, I will NOT watch ABC. And that's for real.
So far as Charlie Gibson, he was probably doing what he was told.
Nevertheless, as far as I'm concerned, he should go work for FOX.

Posted by: R.G.Bateman | April 18, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

It is wonderful to see Senator Obama keep his cool and sense of humor through the ABC project to lynch him. His refusal to knife Hillary when invited to do so on her Bosnia lies shows his true class. But Americans like me have grown very bitter and vexed against the Clinton machine and with the Democratic Party elders like Edwards. As a lifelong Democrat and feminist who has been faithfully tithing to the party and who voted for Bill twice, I am now beyond healing with Hillary. She has completely lost me, and although I may not vote for Mccain if she were to be the nominee, there is no way I will remain a Democrat and vote for monstrous her. I will become a proud Independent and reclaim my integrity. Hillary's outrageous lies are almost as bad as her slurs and smears of an honorable opponent. She will do anything to win, including acting like a Republican, crying before the camera, hiding the Clintons' shady business dealings, lying about NAFTA, pandering to the NRA and to drunks, etc, etc. Our beloved republic will soon be a banana republic, in the grip of Lady Hillary Macbeth and dynastic and coporate machines. Hillary has turned our democracy into a pandercracy. She will lie to the American people from Day One and wage endless war ballistically to prove she has those as well.

Posted by: shir | April 18, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

THE RACIST THEOLOGY OF OBAMA''S CHURCH:
The "theology" that Wright teaches at his church is nothing like Christianity as most people understand it. The brand of theology which Wright has been teaching Obama and the others at his church is called "black liberation theology." Wright admits this and it is stated on the church's website. Black theology is based upon the premise of the white oppressor against the black oppressed. This is why, for example, that Wright refers to Jesus as black, and his killers as white. This is the only way the story of Jesus fits within this brand of "theology." Rev. Wright cites James Cone, another proponent of black liberation theology, as his theological inspiration. Here are just a couple of James Cone's quotes: (1) "To be Christian is to be one of those whom God has chosen. God has chosen black people." (2) "While it is true that blacks do hate whites, black hatred is not racism." (3) "All white men are responsible for white oppression." (4) "Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man "the devil." (5) "If there is any contemporary meaning of the Antichrist, the white church seems to be a manifestation of it." (6) "Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love." *** These statements, and this "theology," are fundamentally racist and divisive. The fact that Obama has chosen to belong to this racist church for 20 years speaks volumes about his character and judgment, and flies in the face of his pronouncements about his ability and intent to "unite" this country.

Posted by: Fred | April 18, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

FOR LACK OF SPACE, JUST A FEW OF OBAMA'S LIES: 1. his continual reference to his "Christian" faith, which is actually "black liberation theology"; 2. his lies and omissions about his connection to his racist and anti-American "mentor and spiritual adviser"; 3. his lie that the Kennedy family provided the funding for a September 1959 airlift of 81 Kenyan students to the United States that included Obama's father; 4. his current false ad in Pennsylvania in which he lies about taking contributions from the oil companies; 5. his alleged continual opposition to the Iraq war; 6. his denial regarding playing the race card (for which he was busted by Tim Russert); 7. his denial that any meeting took place between his chief economic adviser and the Canadian official about NAFTA; 8. his changing testimony about his relationship with and monetary support from Rezko; 9. his lie about a pharmaceutical lobbyist's involvement in his campaign; 10. his statement that his parents met at the Selma march (when he was actually born 4 year before that); 11. his claim in his book that he received his racial awakening at age nine reading a Life/Ebony Magazine story about a black man who was scarred trying to dye his skin white, when both Life and Ebony say there was no such article. AND JUST A FEW OF OBAMA'S FLIP-FLOPS: 1. Special interests In January, the Obama campaign described union contributions to the campaigns of Clinton and John Edwards as "special interest" money. Obama changed his tune as he began gathering his own union endorsements. He now refers respectfully to unions as the representatives of "working people" and says he is "thrilled" by their support. 2. Public financing Obama replied "yes" in September 2007 when asked if he would agree to public financing of the presidential election if his GOP opponent did the same. Obama has now attached several conditions to such an agreement, including regulating spending by outside groups. His spokesman says the candidate never committed himself on the matter. 3. The Cuba embargo In January 2004, Obama said it was time "to end the embargo with Cuba" because it had "utterly failed in the effort to overthrow Castro." Speaking to a Cuban American audience in Miami in August 2007, he said he would not "take off the embargo" as president because it is "an important inducement for change." 4. Illegal immigration In a March 2004 questionnaire, Obama was asked if the government should "crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants." He replied "Oppose." In a Jan. 31, 2008, televised debate, he said that "we do have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation." 5. Decriminalization of marijuana While running for the U.S. Senate in January 2004, Obama told Illinois college students that he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use. In the Oct. 30, 2007, presidential debate, he joined other Democratic candidates in opposing the decriminalization of marijuana.

Posted by: Fred | April 18, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

I'm curious.
If Senator Clinton becomes President, who will be the First Lady to secretly enter the White House.

Posted by: Justadad55 | April 18, 2008 7:19 AM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton deserves a place as the most divisive, dishonest, deceitful and desperate politician I have observed in recent American history. She remains a disgrace to my mother's gender. In my honest opinion, she cannot pass for a mother. She has shown very dangerous traits. I do not think any nation on earth, in present times, desires a "leader" like her. She is pathologically embodied with innumerable flaws- she is naturally dishonest, polarizing and obviously too selfish and self-centred for one's liking. On countless occasions, she has shown she can do any length and depth for votes., no matter how cunning and even depraved her chosen path may be. I first noticed the desperation and level of self-centredness of this woman (no longer feels she is worthy to be addressed as a lady, sorry), was when she boldly declared before the world that Sen. McCain will make a better C-In-C than her fellow Democrat, Sen. Obama. That was the zenith of it. So it was all about her, NOT THE PARTY. That was the day I embraced the conclusion that paramount to Hillary was to become the first female President and not to unite, uplift and advance the Democratic Party. That singular act, in my opinion, is much more than sufficient to deny her the nomination, even if it is deserved, though so glaringly it is not. I will be eternally sorry for the United States (and her image as a nation)- a country I had long admired, a country that harbours so many relatives and friends of mine, if a character like Hillary Clinton makes a party's nominee, let alone President, respectively. It is an established fact that desperate politicians/ "leaders" like Hillary are bound to commit historical blunders of catastrophic scale if given the slightest chance to ride on power- such blunders may never be reversible, sadly enough. She has shown so many times that her undoing is to unite for common good. AND I INSIST UNITED STATES SHOULD BEWARE!!! From afar in Nigeria, I can write a book on Hillary Clinton but I just want keep a little mute and WATCH AS THE U.S. WILL CONDUCT THIS PRIMARY ELECTIONS AND THE IMMINENT GENERAL. Remember, we all (used to?) admire the U.S. as the world's model of democracy, and the citizens as the world's apostles of that style of government. But we also want to observe keenly how the nation will attend to the sort of politics that is played there, and how they intend to control/regulate how politics is played over there. AMERICA ONCE AGAIN HAS A RARE OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE A POSITIVE/NEGATIVE LASTING IMPRESSION. Finally, let me chip in that Charity begins at Home. You judge one's capabilities with how you manage your immediate pre-occupations. Hillary Clinton's campaign administration has been an utter cataclysm. Nearly on bi-weekly basis, there has been constant contradictions, conflicts, accusations and counter-accusations. If she cannot manage her campaign, she stands to answer a library of questions on how she can manage a country of U.S.' dimensions. That is a crucial issue that concerned and wise Americans should critically examine before handing over a more enormous responsibility to the woman, and in process handing over a once-admired nation to a starry-eyed desperado.
To be honest, Sen. Obama has his own faults and flaws, I must confess. But all those pale in comparison to Sen. Clinton's. Having a mere look at Obama shows those qualities of likeability, true caring spirit and a tendency to unite people and opinions. I love him because he inspires me and gives me hope, even though he is fallible. I really see that gentleman as America's, and indeed the world's, agent of hope. HE THAT HAS EARS, LET HIM HEAR! MAY GOD KEEP THE GOOD MEN & MEN OF FAITH!! MAY GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!


Posted by: ikenna obodozie | April 18, 2008 5:29 AM | Report abuse

Ya...I saw Obama today in front of his supporters brushing off last nights' debate as if it were dandruff on his shoulders. What's the matter? Did those meanies hurt your feelings?

Bittergate, Ayres, Wright and Rezko are fair game just as BosniaGate was fair for Hillary. Obama pretends to scorn this kind of discussion while HIS CAMPAIGN put out at least six memos on the Bosnia flap. Folks that's called talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Obama is just too haughty by half. Our concerns about Obama and his associations are not dandruff to be brushed off cavalierly.

His attitude is reflected in his wife and his supporters.

Below is a transcript from Bill Maher's 3/21/08 show.

MAHER: [overlapping] Big mistake!
HARRIS-LACEWELL: [overlapping] No, right. No, because the issue is now - it's not Barack winning our votes, it's whether or not we're good enough to deserve a leader like that.
MAHER: Well--
HARRIS-LACEWELL: [overlapping] A leader who can stand - no, no--
MAHER: [overlapping] That's not a good thing to say.
HARRIS-LACEWELL: [overlapping] No, well, I mean, I will say--
MAHER: [overlapping] That's not going to get you--
HARRIS-LACEWELL: [overlapping]--I - I will say that I'm not running.
MAHER: Right.
HARRIS-LACEWELL: Okay, right. So I will--
MAHER: [overlapping] But, his wife said something similar.
HARRIS-LACEWELL: No.
MAHER: Yes, she said, "We're only going to run once. You better get on the train now..."


Here's Harris-Lacewell, a black, female college professor is saying, Obama is BETTER than us and Maher (An Obama supporter) is trying to tone her down because he knows that line of thinking is a loser.

Maher then brings up the statement by Michelle Obama which echoes Harris-Lacewell's attitude.


Well Mr Obama, rest easy, we can stand letting your train go on by.

Posted by: Truth Seeker | April 18, 2008 2:27 AM | Report abuse

This is for Jim Boyd..

You are in no position to judge anything that happens in the Black Community, nor are you an authority on what happens there, or what has happened that, that OUR black leaders are out on the streets dealing with everyday. You don't see the President of the United States going to speak about whats happening to a large part of the urban areas around this country, hell he ignored an entire state.

I'm sorry but Obama is just one person working in a complex social and economic community that has many problems and has its own leaders, I dont recall any jewish leaders volunteering and offering their support on the South Side of Chicago.

I may not agree with everything Mr. Farrakhan says, but I do know that I agree with his message of Blacks supporting each other politically and economically, just like the Jewish Community does. If we could pool our resources like that, it would be great, but unlike the Jewish Community we have 450 years of self hatred and the slave mentally that was placed upon us to guarantee our servitude.

You have never been to a black church where the problems and anger of what has happened to black people is being expressed in the one forum it really can, and Rev Wright has the very right to express how he feels and we have the right to agree or disagree with him, but that is supposedly what being an American is all about.

I listen to talk radio and Jimmy Swaggert and Oral Roberts and Rush Limbaugh and all of their theories and though I may not like it or agree that is their right to express themselves. And if the media wants to grab sound bites and use them to characterize a man's entire life and career, thats just plain wrong and and injustice.

So I challenge all of the so called justice seekers and patriot bloggers fishing to soundbites, go back and find all of the people John McCain has ever spoken too, Hillary Clinton has ever spoken too in their careers and everything they have said publicly and I can guarantee you will find comments that were offensive to some, elitest to others and down right condescending. So get to work...

This is the United States, we have our own negative history we are afraid to address and until it is, I hope all black preachers and leaders are speaking up about the hypocrisy of what we say we stand for yet don't live. This election is showing the true colors of America to the entire world and we should be ashamed at what we are portraying to the rest of the world.

Continue to be the bigger man Senator Obama, you have a younger generation that sees past all of the negativity and callous politics that is being played.

Its something I never ever ever thought I would see in my lifetime, a Black Man with the opportunity, the real opportunity to be the next President Of The United States and for the first time in my adult life, I am PROUD of the political process and the open mindedness of the people out there supporting Senator Obama...

Posted by: Go Obama Go | April 18, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse

Justaguy: OK, your father was a former KKK member. You didn't choose your father; Obama did choose his racist and anti-American "mentor and spiritual adviser." Big difference.

Posted by: Fred | April 18, 2008 12:12 AM | Report abuse

ABC is a looser. I thought Charlie and George would be a class act, they failed us. Hillary has demonstrated that she is a looser and would say and do anything to win. As for her husband claiming to be the first black president, he is dreaming, because there is no such thing.

Is Hillary in bed with George due to him working in her husband's administration? I could have sworn at listening to the questions, they had plotted this thing out. Charles has losted credibility with me and the rest of those persons who watch his show.

Charles, you should join fox news, you stupid idiot. George, you also proved to be a member of the fox show.

Posted by: Mary | April 18, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

jacksmith | April 17, 2008 10:29 PM
-------------------------------

Thank you for proving the Obama supporters theories correct.

Back to the issues:
Economy
Occupation in Iraq
The economic divide
Hunger
Aids
Housing
Infrastructure
Care of our Military when they come home
National Health Care
Education
Price of gas at the pump
Price of home heating oil
Deregulation of the Electric and Natural Gas companies
Hunger
World Image
Honoring UN peace treaties
Corruption in the Government
Lobbyists
PAC groups
Recession -- yes those of us making under $75,000/yearly have been a recession for years

I could go on but my HOPE is that the journalists who earn a living reporting these issues to the American people will do the job they are paid to do. Cover the Issues!!

Obama 2008 & 2012

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse

We are entitled to hear the candidates talk about the economy, not just taxes. Healthcare is more important than a flag pin on the lapel but ABC insists that their only problem with their debate was that they should have interspersed the nonsense with the important issues of our time.

Clinton supporters think that this worked to their advantage. True it may delay her loss but the real losers are the Democrats in the general election. the nonsense last night was endless and it needs to be controlled.

Posted by: Ron M | April 17, 2008 11:50 PM | Report abuse

I was trying to post a simple thank you for capnbilly's intelligent adult post.

And I do thank you, capnbilly.

But SunnyFlorida, before you post again, would you at least try to write something new?

Posted by: Helen | April 17, 2008 11:37 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone out there really think Hillary has no associations who have questionable pasts?? This debate was so Tabloid. I felt like I was watching Fox news!! Has anyone also noticed the text poll following the debate showed Obama won 78% to Hillary's 24%?? This surprised me since all the media gave him negative reviews? To Fred --about Obama's rev wright thing and Hillary's pure pastor she has, don't you know her pastor speaks out against gays? Yes at church!! We are all hypocrites!! Everyone of us!

Posted by: Margot Weilacher | April 17, 2008 11:06 PM | Report abuse

Voters should scrutinize the personal choices (e.g.,choosing the Anti-White Ideology of Black Liberation Theology) of a candidate which can influence his perception of the world and events taking place in the world.

Jewish voters and other voters want Barack Obama to answer these questions.

Why did Barack Obama choose a spiritual adviser/mentor who taught the Anti-White Ideology of Black Liberation Theology?

Why did Barack Obama listen to the Anti-White Ideology of Black Liberation Theology for 20 years and give significant amounts of money to support the preaching of the Anti-White Ideology?

Why didn't Bartack Obama publicly denounce his spiritual adviser/mentor for authorizing the publication of the 'Hamas Terror Manifesto' in the 7/22/2007 Bulletin of the Trinity United Church of Christ?

Why did Barack Obama's spiritual adviser/mentor give a Lifetime Achievement Award to the Anti-White, Anti-Catholic, and Anti-Semitic Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan?

Why didn't Barack Obama publicly denounce Rev. Jeremiah Wright for giving the Lifetime Achievement Award to Farrakhan?

Any objective Obama supporter can learn why Obama is unelectable at: http://www.AudacityofHypocrisy.com/

That web site "could have" (but, does not have) another URL:
http://www.TheWebSiteBarackObamaDoesNotWantVotersToRead.com/

Posted by: Jim Boyd | April 17, 2008 10:58 PM | Report abuse

America is confused and out of touch. Obama see's through the lies the mass media are giving to the american public, and he's targetting people at grass roots...no amount of Fox news bashing is going to slow him down, if anything it reinforces what he's already saying.

Hillary will give nothing new, Obama will begin to put america on the right track again. This is how i see it from New Zealand, its up to America to step up and move forward, or to keep on doing what its doing, which really isn't much.

Posted by: Shaun | April 17, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Is it asking too much to expect that whoever is hosting a presidential debate operate on the assumption that the point of the debate is to help the electorate make an INFORMED decision about the person who will be our president. This may be the most important political decision that any of us ever make in our lives. I realize that the two ABC moderators can claim..the questions they asked are important to some voters and indeed I realize that some people may vote on whether Clinton mis-stated the degree of danger she faced in Bosnia, or what Obama's paster says on youtube. And, god help us, even whether or not he wears a flag pin! I also realize that some people may vote against Clinton because they dont like her hair style. So be it. Given the approach ABC took on this debate perhaps they should have asked Jerry Springer to moderate. I bet he could have really got them some really good ratings. I would hate to think what anyone from outside our country thinks about us if they judge the way we Americans are approaching this election based on this date. I hope - and want to believe - most Americans are not as shallow as Gibson and Stephanopolis. It would be somewhat redeeming if the two moderators had the smarts to be ashamed of their performance but I really doubt they have the journalistic integrity to even be embarrassed about their performance.

Posted by: Jim | April 17, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Being the son of a former officer in the KKK that I admired and loved deeply and now I am an Obama supporter I find it odd that people associate with different types of people through life and are judged for that association. Is it fair for me to judge Cindy McCain for stealing drugs from a charity she was the head of? Is it fair for me to imply that she was not prosecuted because her husband John McCain was a Senator. Should not John divorced denounced this woman who would commit a crime that in reality is the same as STEALING from a church? Is it fair for me to say Hillary Clinton has something wrong with her womanhood since apparantly she can't satisfy Bill Clinton's intimate desires and apparantly never could and that is why she comes across as mean and frustrated. This is all guilt by association and the worst people in world to associate with are the Politicians. For a relative small group of people they seem to be some of the most disgusting people in America per capita. So let us just continue to talk about those issues while our nation slides down the slippery slope. Fuel your hate live with your hate die with your hate. Your children will still love you just as I loved my dad till the day he died.

Posted by: justaguy | April 17, 2008 10:36 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous said: So now it's "Fred" and "Fred Jr." pretending to be Democrats. One attacking Obama and one attacking Hillary.
We see right through you. How? Well, the biggest mistake you make is how thorough your dissertations are. The second is how well edited your posts are. In the future, if you want convince us unwary Democrats, you should make a few grammatical errors along with a few typos.
Better still, get your lying butts off these comment pages.

I love your logic (or lack thereof). Because my posts are well edited, I must be what, a Republican? Why don't you argue the issues, instead of making unfounded accusations?

Posted by: Fred | April 17, 2008 10:32 PM | Report abuse

MY FELLOW "BITTER", STUPID, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE :-)

If you think like Barack Obama, that WORKING CLASS PEOPLE are just a bunch of "BITTER"!, STUPID, PEASANTS, Cash COWS!, and CANNON FODDER. :-(

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary's than they had ever been before or since.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. :-)

Best regards

jacksmith... Working Class :-)

p.s. You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you don't know that the huge amounts of money funding the Obama campaign to try and defeat Hillary Clinton is coming in from the insurance, and medical industry, that has been ripping you off, and killing you and your children. And denying you, and your loved ones the life saving medical care you needed. All just so they can make more huge immoral profits for them-selves off of your suffering...

You see, back in 1993 Hillary Clinton had the audacity, and nerve to try and get quality, affordable universal health care for everyone to prevent the suffering and needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of you each year. :-)

Approx. 100,000 of you die each year from medical accidents from a rush to profit by the insurance, and medical industry. Another 120,000 of you die each year from treatable illness that people in other developed countries don't die from. And I could go on, and on...

Posted by: jacksmith | April 17, 2008 10:29 PM | Report abuse

So now it's "Fred" and "Fred Jr." pretending to be Democrats. One attacking Obama and one attacking Hillary.
We see right through you. How? Well, the biggest mistake you make is how thorough your dissertations are. The second is how well edited your posts are. In the future, if you want convince us unwary Democrats, you should make a few grammatical errors along with a few typos.
Better still, get your lying butts off these comment pages.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 10:21 PM | Report abuse

Note the first of the CHARACTERISTICS OF FASCISM listed by the author below.
Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, wrote an article about fascism which appeared in Free Inquiry magazine, a journal of humanist thought. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile). He found the regimes all had 14 things in common, and he calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The article is titled "Fascism Anyone?," and appears in Free Inquiry's Spring 2003 issue on page 20.


1.. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Posted by: bj | April 17, 2008 10:16 PM | Report abuse

Lee Davi: I agree with you. We are fooling ourselves if we believe that Obama didn't know how Rev. Wright felt about the issues. He, himself, referred to Rev. Wright as his "mentor and spiritual adviser." He went to the church for 20 years. The church preaches black liberation theology, which is based upon the struggle between the "white oppressor" and the "black oppressed." Here are just a few statements from the architect of black liberation theology, James Cone, and I'll let you make your own determination as to whether or not Obama's church is racist:
(1) "To be Christian is to be one of those whom God has chosen. God has chosen black people." (2) "While it is true that blacks do hate whites, black hatred is not racism." (3) "All white men are responsible for white oppression." (4) "Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man "the devil." (5) "If there is any contemporary meaning of the Antichrist, the white church seems to be a manifestation of it." (6) "Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."

Posted by: Fred | April 17, 2008 10:04 PM | Report abuse

You know...the more I read posts like the ones in here, the more I realize why ABC and other news organizations treat the public like children. Just in case you don't understand what's going on here, ABC played the American public like chumps by staging an event like a debate but giving you an "entertainment tonight" show. The outrage against CBS has nothing to do with Obama or Clinton-in that debate they did not matter. It was purely the moderators trying score entertainment points with the public - damn their menial concers.

Posted by: PATA | April 17, 2008 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone forget that the same thing the Obama is complaining about happened to Clinton some debates back? He didn't have problems with it then so why is he whining now.
And for anyone who doesn't think it's important to explain his personal relationship with racists (after his wonderful speech on the same topic) what drugs are you smoking?
I find it hard to believe that Obama went to this man's church regularly and NEVER heard him express such sentiments. The odds just don't figure out that way. The fact is he has NOT clarified his relationship and needs to. I don't want a president with secret racial distrust/hatred. We all heard what he said about people in small towns. "...it's not surprising" means he actually believes these things.
Come on now people. Do you still want this man?

Posted by: Lee Davi | April 17, 2008 9:59 PM | Report abuse

I think Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos should give a written appology Senators Clinton and Obama and promise never ever to be part of a debate.

It was totally inappropriate for Charles Gibson putting both candidates on edge at the onset of the debate when he grilled them about them teaming up to be a dream team. That, if ever brought up, should have been in the closing.

Questions asked were to few and too late as to what the listening audience wanted to here about their qualifications for presidency

Posted by: rikgw | April 17, 2008 9:57 PM | Report abuse

So, what's your point? Just more decades old information that I'm sure the witch hunter Kenneth Starr had heard about, and discarded if there wasn't anything to it. How about these much more recent and relevant issues:
FOR LACK OF SPACE, JUST A FEW OF OBAMA'S LIES: 1. his continual reference to his "Christian" faith, which is actually "black liberation theology"; 2. his lies and omissions about his connection to his racist and anti-American "mentor and spiritual adviser"; 3. his lie that the Kennedy family provided the funding for a September 1959 airlift of 81 Kenyan students to the United States that included Obama's father; 4. his current false ad in Pennsylvania in which he lies about taking contributions from the oil companies; 5. his alleged continual opposition to the Iraq war; 6. his denial regarding playing the race card (for which he was busted by Tim Russert); 7. his denial that any meeting took place between his chief economic adviser and the Canadian official about NAFTA; 8. his changing testimony about his relationship with and monetary support from Rezko; 9. his lie about a pharmaceutical lobbyist's involvement in his campaign; 10. his statement that his parents met at the Selma march (when he was actually born 4 year before that); 11. his claim in his book that he received his racial awakening at age nine reading a Life/Ebony Magazine story about a black man who was scarred trying to dye his skin white, when both Life and Ebony say there was no such article. AND JUST A FEW OF OBAMA'S FLIP-FLOPS: 1. Special interests In January, the Obama campaign described union contributions to the campaigns of Clinton and John Edwards as "special interest" money. Obama changed his tune as he began gathering his own union endorsements. He now refers respectfully to unions as the representatives of "working people" and says he is "thrilled" by their support. 2. Public financing Obama replied "yes" in September 2007 when asked if he would agree to public financing of the presidential election if his GOP opponent did the same. Obama has now attached several conditions to such an agreement, including regulating spending by outside groups. His spokesman says the candidate never committed himself on the matter. 3. The Cuba embargo In January 2004, Obama said it was time "to end the embargo with Cuba" because it had "utterly failed in the effort to overthrow Castro." Speaking to a Cuban American audience in Miami in August 2007, he said he would not "take off the embargo" as president because it is "an important inducement for change." 4. Illegal immigration In a March 2004 questionnaire, Obama was asked if the government should "crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants." He replied "Oppose." In a Jan. 31, 2008, televised debate, he said that "we do have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation." 5. Decriminalization of marijuana While running for the U.S. Senate in January 2004, Obama told Illinois college students that he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use. In the Oct. 30, 2007, presidential debate, he joined other Democratic candidates in opposing the decriminalization of marijuana.

Posted by: Fred | April 17, 2008 9:57 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Sara Bergstein | April 17, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Fred,

Here's some current information since you don't think that the past will repeat itself. I know it will. The Clintons don't change.

Hillary Clinton's Culture of Corruption: The Scandal Queen
The Fraudulent Senator: Part 1 of a 7 Part Series
Joan Swirsky, Featured Writer
March 13, 2006


Once upon a time the woman who former Democrat House Ways and Means Committee Chairman and convicted felon Dan Rostenkowski was credited with calling "the smartest woman in the world'' decided that departing the pinnacle of world power at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue - where she was co-president of the U.S. for eight years - was unacceptable.

In no time, she decided that the fastest route to regaining that power was to spend as few years as possible as the junior senator from New York and then move onward and upward to reclaim what she believes is her rightful place in history as the first female president of the United States of America.

Hillary Rodham Clinton promptly relocated to the Empire State and moved into an upscale house financed by the former chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

Her senatorial campaign involved spinning the yarn that she was a long-time NY Yankees fan, assuring upstate conservative voters that she "cared" about their jobs, informing the large liberal base of NY City Jewish voters that she was part Jewish (endearing coming from the wife of the first black president), and convincing the Chasidic New Square community in Rockland County (that had formerly voted overwhelmingly for arch-conservative Sen. Alfonse D'Amato) to vote 99 to 1 for her.

Never mind that two months after her election she pardoned four residents of New Square who had been convicted of defrauding the federal government, an act not quite as egregious as her husband's attempt to win her New York's Hispanic vote by pardoning 16 members of the FALN terrorist group who had planted over 130 bombs in the U.S., killed six people and injured 70.

All that added to the sympathy of New York's bleeding-heart liberals for the woman wronged by her predatory husband and his paramour Monica Lewinsky, and Hillary ran up enough votes to elect her to the U.S. Senate.

The Past as Prologue
In preparation for her unchallenged role as America's Scandal Queen, Hillary navigated the shoals of Arkansas politics for 12 years as the then-governor's wife - years that included scandals of her own, among them:

â–ª A $100,000 windfall from cattle futures after a $1,000 investment.

• The Castle Grande real estate scam.

• Her role as attorney for the Rose law firm in what would become the endlessly controversial-cum-criminal Whitewater affair that would follow her to the White House.

• The serial philandering of her husband, which cast her - depending on one's viewpoint - as a clench-jawed stoic, a perpetual victim, or a willing collaborator.

According to veteran journalist Richard Poe: "During Bill Clinton's tenure as attorney general and then governor of Arkansas, the state became a veritable Dixie Casablanca, a hotbed of global intrigue, in which shady operators ranging from Columbian drug lords and BCCI money launderers to Chinese intelligence agents took part." And there, in the thick of it, was Clinton's "stand by your man's" wife, Hillary.

Chicago-born Hillary - who by way of education, career, marriage and circumstance had already migrated to Wellesley, New Haven, Washington D.C., and Little Rock - had learned a lot in "The Natural State," specifically how to supernaturally evade responsibility, deny accountability, and dodge law enforcement, all the perfect preparation for her lengthy stay in White House - at the lofty address she now wants to reoccupy.

Don't Throw Me in That Briar Patch!
By the time she moved into the White House in 1993, Hillary was so accustomed to - and comfortable with - her husband's and her own self-created scandals that living a straight-and-narrow, law-abiding life appeared to be alien to her.

Like Brer Rabbit, Hillary practically begged for scandal. To recount the Joel Chandler Harris classic, Brer Rabbit was despised by Brer Fox, who decided to teach a lesson to the uppity rabbit. He created a tar baby and, sure enough, Brer Rabbit struck up a conversation with the sticky statue, but to no avail. Frustrated, he punched the baby and his paw got stuck in the tar. Infuriated, he struck him again and his other paw got stuck. Then he kicked the tar baby with both feet and butted it with his head and they too got stuck.

Finally, Brer Fox appeared to taunt his captive. "I'm going to barbecue you today, for sure."

"I don't care what you do with me, roast me," Brer Rabbit said. "Just so you don't fling me in that briar patch." Then Brer Fox threatened to hang the critter, drown him or skin him. But those horrible prospects didn't daunt Brer Rabbit. "Snatch out my eyeballs, tear out my ears by the roots," he pleaded with his antagonist, "but please, Brer Fox, don't fling me in that briar patch!

Finally Brer Fox decided to do the worst of all possible things: hurl Brer Rabbit in the briar patch. In no time, the fox saw Brer Rabbit sitting on a chinquapin log combing the tar pitch out of his hair. "Born and bred in the briar patch," Brer Rabbit gleefully called out to the fox. "It's my favorite place in the whole world!"

An Expert at Scandal
Unlike Brer Rabbit, Hillary wasn't born and bred in the world of political scandal - far from it. In fact her family were Republicans and young Hillary supported the1964 presidential bid of Barry Goldwater, the archconservative senator from Arizona. Unphased by his loss, she continued her conservative ways by becoming the president of the Wellesley College chapter of College Republicans.

But with her exposure at Wellesley to the radical leftist Saul Alinsky and her subsequent introduction to Yale Law School's draft-dodging leftist Bill Clinton, the die was cast for her hate-America's-military-intelligence-defense establishment. To the smartest woman in the world and her then-boyfriend, the path to changing what they hated was clear: Get power and hold onto it no matter what it takes!

What it took in Arkansas was first learning and then becoming a scandal expert. Within months of taking up residence in the White House, Hillary put her expertise to work.

In May 1993, the co-president was accused of having a central hand in firing several long-time employees of the White House Travel Office, the better to give the pricey travel business to her Hollywood pals, Linda Bloodworth Thomason and Harry Thomason. In true scandal-mode form, Hillary denied everything and when Whitewater Independent Counsel Robert Ray investigated Travelgate, he concluded that there was substantial evidence that involved Hillary but not enough to warrant an indictment.

A couple of months later, in July 1993, White House Deputy Counsel Vince Foster was said to have committed suicide, although the case for his murder has been made persuasively by, among others, Christopher Ruddy, in his 1993 book, "The Strange Death of Vincent Foster: An Investigation."

But the case didn't end there. In 1996, Hillary was accused by the Senate Special Whitewater Committee of ordering the removal of potentially damaging files related to Whitewater from Foster's office on the night of his death. Hillary denied everything, once again proving her adeptness in the scandal briar patch.

In June 1996, White House security head Craig Livingstone, a political operative and former bouncer, illegally obtained over 700 FBI files of mostly White House personnel from former Republican administrations. Hillary was accused of requesting the files and, in fact, hiring Mr. Livingstone, but she denied everything to yet another Independent Counsel, and Filegate became one more notch in her briar patch scandal belt.

Ultimately, her co-presidency brought about the fall of more elected and appointed members of her regime, as well as "friends" who met untimely deaths, were indicted, pleaded the fifth, fled the country, and were imprisoned, than in any administration in American history.

Staggering Numbers
Keeping in mind that Hillary - in her own "two for the price of one" pronouncement - told the nation that she would be sharing the presidency with her husband, it would beg the imaginations of even her most fervent acolytes that the tsunami of scandals that inundated the Clinton tenure somehow escaped either the notice or personal involvement of Hillary herself.


Posted by: Fred Jr | April 17, 2008 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Fred Jr.: Give it up. That info is old news. It was fully litigated by Kenneth Starr at a cost of over $40 million, and all he came up with was Monica. If that's all you have, it's pretty pitiful. All of the posts I have made concern Obama RIGHT NOW, not his wife 15 years ago. Let's get serious.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 9:43 PM | Report abuse

The Clintons, to adapt a line from Dr. Johnson, were not only corrupt, they were the cause of corruption in others. Yet seldom in America have so many come to excuse so much mendacity and malfeasance as during the Clinton years. Here are some of the facts that have been buried.

RECORDS SET

- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
- First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court

* According to our best information, 40 government officials were indicted or convicted in the wake of Watergate. A reader computes that there was a total of 31 Reagan era convictions, including 14 because of Iran-Contra and 16 in the Department of Housing & Urban Development scandal. 47 individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine were convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes with 33 of these occurring during the Clinton administration itself. There were in addition 61 indictments or misdemeanor charges. 14 persons were imprisoned. A key difference between the Clinton story and earlier ones was the number of criminals with whom he was associated before entering the White House.

Using a far looser standard that included resignations, David R. Simon and D. Stanley Eitzen in Elite Deviance, say that 138 appointees of the Reagan administration either resigned under an ethical cloud or were criminally indicted. Curiously Haynes Johnson uses the same figure but with a different standard in "Sleep-Walking Through History: America in the Reagan Years: "By the end of his term, 138 administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever."

STARR-RAY INVESTIGATION

- Number of Starr-Ray investigation convictions or guilty pleas (including one governor, one associate attorney general and two Clinton business partners): 14
- Number of Clinton Cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 5
- Number of Reagan cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 4
- Number of top officials jailed in the Teapot Dome Scandal: 3

CRIME STATS

- Number of individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 47
- Number of these convictions during Clinton's presidency: 33
- Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61
- Number of congressional witnesses who have pleaded the Fifth Amendment, fled the country to avoid testifying, or (in the case of foreign witnesses) refused to be interviewed: 122

SMALTZ INVESTIGATION

- Guilty pleas and convictions obtained by Donald Smaltz in cases involving charges of bribery and fraud against former Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy and associated individuals and businesses: 15
- Acquitted or overturned cases (including Espy): 6
- Fines and penalties assessed: $11.5 million
- Amount Tyson Food paid in fines and court costs: $6 million

CAMPAIGN FINANCE INVESTIGATION

- As of June 2000, the Justice Department listed 25 people indicted and 19 convicted because of the 1996 Clinton-Gore fundraising scandals.
- According to the House Committee on Government Reform in September 2000, 79 House and Senate witnesses asserted the Fifth Amendment in the course of investigations into Gore's last fundraising campaign.
-James Riady entered a plea agreement to pay an $8.5 million fine for campaign finance crimes. This was a record under campaign finance laws.

CLINTON MACHINE CRIMES FOR WHICH CONVICTIONS WERE OBTAINED

Drug trafficking (3), racketeering, extortion, bribery (4), tax evasion, kickbacks, embezzlement (2), fraud (12), conspiracy (5), fraudulent loans, illegal gifts (1), illegal campaign contributions (5), money laundering (6), perjury, obstruction of justice.

HISTORICAL CONTEXT

- Number of independent counsel inquiries since the 1978 law was passed: 19
- Number that have produced indictments: 7
- Number that produced more convictions than the Starr investigation: 1
- Median length of investigations that led to convictions: 44 months
- Length of Starr-Ray investigation: 69 months.
- Total cost of the Starr investigation (3/00) $52 million
- Total cost of the Iran-Contra investigation: $48.5 million
- Total cost to taxpayers of the Madison Guarantee failure: $73 million

OTHER MATTERS INVESTIGATED BY SPECIAL PROSECUTORS AND CONGRESS, OR REPORTED IN THE MEDIA

Bank and mail fraud, violations of campaign finance laws, illegal foreign campaign funding, improper exports of sensitive technology, physical violence and threats of violence, solicitation of perjury, intimidation of witnesses, bribery of witnesses, attempted intimidation of prosecutors, perjury before congressional committees, lying in statements to federal investigators and regulatory officials, flight of witnesses, obstruction of justice, bribery of cabinet members, real estate fraud, tax fraud, drug trafficking, failure to investigate drug trafficking, bribery of state officials, use of state police for personal purposes, exchange of promotions or benefits for sexual favors, using state police to provide false court testimony, laundering of drug money through a state agency, false reports by medical examiners and others investigating suspicious deaths, the firing of the RTC and FBI director when these agencies were investigating Clinton and his associates, failure to conduct autopsies in suspicious deaths, providing jobs in return for silence by witnesses, drug abuse, improper acquisition and use of 900 FBI files, improper futures trading, murder, sexual abuse of employees, false testimony before a federal judge, shredding of documents, withholding and concealment of subpoenaed documents, fabricated charges against (and improper firing of) White House employees, inviting drug traffickers, foreign agents and participants in organized crime to the White House.

ARKANSAS ALTZHEIMER'S

Number of times that Clinton figures who testified in court or before Congress said that they didn't remember, didn't know, or something similar.

Bill Kennedy 116
Harold Ickes 148
Ricki Seidman 160
Bruce Lindsey 161
Bill Burton 191
Mark Gearan 221
Mack McLarty 233
Neil Egglseston 250
Hillary Clinton 250
John Podesta 264
Jennifer O'Connor 343
Dwight Holton 348
Patsy Thomasson 420
Jeff Eller 697

FROM THE WASHINGTON TIMES: In the portions of President Clinton's Jan. 17 deposition that have been made public in the Paula Jones case, his memory failed him 267 times. This is a list of his answers and how many times he gave each one.

I don't remember - 71
I don't know - 62
I'm not sure - 17
I have no idea - 10
I don't believe so - 9
I don't recall - 8
I don't think so - 8
I don't have any specific recollection - 6
I have no recollection - 4
Not to my knowledge - 4
I just don't remember - 4
I don't believe - 4
I have no specific recollection - 3
I might have - 3
I don't have any recollection of that - 2 I don't have a specific memory - 2
I don't have any memory of that - 2
I just can't say - 2
I have no direct knowledge of that - 2
I don't have any idea - 2
Not that I recall - 2
I don't believe I did - 2
I can't remember - 2
I can't say - 2
I do not remember doing so - 2
Not that I remember - 2
I'm not aware - 1
I honestly don't know - 1
I don't believe that I did - 1
I'm fairly sure - 1
I have no other recollection - 1
I'm not positive - 1
I certainly don't think so - 1
I don't really remember - 1
I would have no way of remembering that - 1
That's what I believe happened - 1
To my knowledge, no - 1
To the best of my knowledge - 1
To the best of my memory - 1
I honestly don't recall - 1
I honestly don't remember - 1
That's all I know - 1
I don't have an independent recollection of that - 1
I don't actually have an independent memory of that - 1
As far as I know - 1
I don't believe I ever did that - 1
That's all I know about that - 1
I'm just not sure - 1
Nothing that I remember - 1
I simply don't know - 1
I would have no idea - 1
I don't know anything about that - 1
I don't have any direct knowledge of that - 1
I just don't know - 1
I really don't know - 1
I can't deny that, I just -- I have no memory of that at all - 1

Posted by: Fred Jr | April 17, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

WAS IT FAIR TO QUESTION OBAMA ABOUT REV. WRIGHT IN THE DEBATE? WELL, HOW ABOUT THIS QUESTION TO OBAMA SUPPORTERS: If Hillary Clinton had been going to a "white centered" church for 20 years; the fundamental theology of the church was one of white versus black; the pastor of the church often made racist remarks against blacks, and blamed all of society's ills on black people; the pastor of the church gave David Duke a lifetime achievement award; the church supported the terrorist group, Hamas; and Hillary considered this pastor her "mentor and spiritual adviser"; would you give her the pass that you are giving Obama. Would you be enraged that a moderator in the debates would ask her a question about this affiliation? I doubt most Obama supporters could answer this question honestly, so I'll tell you what would happen if Hillary Clinton had the same sort of relationship in reverse: The righteous indignation of Obama and the media would rise up, the demand would be made that Hillary withdraw from the nomination process immediately, and Hillary's political career would be over, period.

Posted by: Fred | April 17, 2008 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Stop your whining! Obama did just fine, given the circumstances. Hillary absolutely turns me off and has since her 90s 60 Minutes/Stand By Your Man crack. Puke! What's the matter with Gibson and Stephan-I can't say or spell his name?? Are these guys for real???

Posted by: Rich | April 17, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

If Obama couldn't handle last night very well (which he didn't), how is he going to fend off the Republican slime machine. He needs to fess up and tell the truth about the issues like Hillary did last night. When asked about the Bosnia incident, she admitted that she exaggerated, and apologized. When asked about his knowledge of Rev. Wright's views, Obama continues to lie and expect us to believe that he had no idea his "mentor and spiritual adviser" had those views. One would have to be a moron to believe that, after his 20 year close relationship with Wright. He also lied about the flag pin issue (which, by the way, I think is a non-issue), when he stated that he had never said he wouldn't wear one. I immediately went to YouTube and found his statement that he wouldn't wear one in about 2 minutes. He also lied about the issue of his stance on gun control as stated in the questionnaire he filled out in his run for state senate. If Obama doesn't want to have many more tense moments like he had last night, he needs to be honest with the American public; he needs to admit that he is very much like politicians in general. For those who doubt this, here is an article from the Chicago Tribune about how Obama obtained his first elective office. Read this article, and then decide for yourself if he represents "change."
http://tinyurl.com/2zwwte

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 9:16 PM | Report abuse

Was looking forward to a great debate after the historical speech on a More Perfect Union. Thought the ABC (Annihilate the Best Candidate) moderators would have taken the high road after that speech...but all i saw was scraping of CR*P from ABC (A Bunch of CR*P) moderators. Could see the words "Dear Lord, forgive them for they do not know what they do" run through Obama's mind.. Final Verdit - ABC (A Barack Crucification) turned into self destruction of ABC(All Bullsh*T Channel)...

Posted by: Mostly Intrigued | April 17, 2008 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Fred,

It isn't going to work. Get back on your leaking swift boat, "the USS Clinton" and start bailing. Your poor ship is sinking into its own mire and no one is listening to your hate and bigotry. Not this time.


www.barackobama.com

Here's from your favorite factcheck- it does not say that Senator Obama did anything unethical- Indeed it says that Bill Clinton probably did.

Remember, he was the one who pardoned 140 felons including Marc Rich on his last day in office.

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Sen. Barack Obama is defending his relationship with a former radical whose provocative words were wrongly linked by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Facts were loose in both Democratic presidential campaigns Thursday as Clinton sought advantage from her rival's association with William Ayers, a college professor who was once part of the violent Weather Underground group.

The dustup arose in their debate the night before when Obama was asked whether his connection to Ayers raised politically damaging questions about his patriotism.

Obama struck back by calling attention to Bill Clinton's decision to grant clemency to two former Weather Underground members who _ unlike Ayers _ had been convicted of crimes from that era.

President Clinton's actions freed women who had been serving sentences of 40 years and 58 years after convictions on weapons, explosives and related charges.

Members of the Weather Underground, known initially as the Weathermen, claimed responsibility for a series of bombings, including non-fatal but destructive ones at the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol.

In addition, three members died when their bomb-making session at a New York City town house went awry in 1970, and several members were convicted in a botched 1981 Brink's truck ambush during which two police officers and a guard died.

Ayers was not implicated in the Brink's deaths and the two former members cleared by Bill Clinton were not convicted of killings.

THE SPIN:

Obama said Ayers is "a guy who lives in my neighborhood" and not someone who has endorsed him or talked to him regularly.

"And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values, doesn't make much sense," Obama said.

Clinton said the relationship was deeper than that because both men served together on the board of a charity.

Ayers, she said, made comments "which were deeply hurtful to people in New York and, I would hope, to every American, because they were published on 9/11, and he said that he was just sorry they hadn't done more.

"And what they did was set bombs," she went on. "And in some instances, people died."

THE FACTS:

Clinton's implication that Ayers made hurtful comments connected with the terrorist attacks is wrong.

By coincidence, a story about Ayers and what he called his fictionalized memoirs appeared in The New York Times on the day of the attacks.

The story was based on an interview he had done earlier, in Chicago, in which he declared, "I don't regret setting bombs," and "I feel we didn't do enough," even while seeming to dissociate himself coyly from the group's most destructive acts.

Clinton is correct that both men served together on the board of the Woods Fund, a Chicago-based charity that develops community groups to help the poor. Ayers joined the board in 1999 and is still on it. Obama left it in December 2002 after nine years.

Ayers was clearly more than someone Obama just ran into in the neighborhood on occasion. In the mid-1990s, when Obama was making his first run for the Illinois Senate, Ayers had Obama to his home to introduce him to others.

But a flub by Obama in the debate suggested he does not know him that well: He called Ayers an English professor. Ayers teaches education at the University of Illinois at Chicago and has been an education adviser to Mayor Richard Daley.

Ayers disappeared after the 1970 town house explosion, although he was not charged in that episode. He and his wife, Bernadine Dohrn, surfaced in 1980.

They both faced charges stemming from Chicago demonstrations in 1969 but his were dismissed for prosecutorial misconduct while she pleaded guilty to aggravated battery and bail-jumping.

THE SPIN:

Obama said Clinton was not one to talk about guilt by association because "President Clinton pardoned or commuted the sentences of two members of the Weather Underground, which I think is a slightly more significant act than me serving on a board with somebody for actions that he did 40 years ago."

THE FACTS:

Obama correctly sketched out the details of Bill Clinton's acts in the case. However, senior Obama strategist David Axelrod went too far Thursday when he said the two cleared by President Clinton had killed people. They were not convicted of that.

Bill Clinton created an uproar with New York lawmakers from both parties and with police when, on his last day in office, he granted clemency to Susan L. Rosenberg and Linda Sue Evans.

Rosenberg was sentenced to 58 years after being caught unloading 740 pounds of dynamite and weapons from a car in New Jersey in 1984. She was wanted on charges related to the deadly Brink's ambush but never tried on them, and Clinton's order released her after 16 years behind bars.

Evans was captured in 1985 along with one of the fugitives from the Brink's robbery, whom she was accused of harboring. Evans was sentenced to 40 years on a variety of weapons and terrorism-related convictions, including the 1983 Capitol bombing plot.

Although Hillary Clinton publicly disputed her husband's offer of clemency to Puerto Rican nationalists in 1999 because they had not sufficiently renounced violence, she is not known to have objected to his freeing of Rosenberg and Evans in 2001.

Fred you are a loathsome creature. Please do us all a favor and crawl back under your rock. You have nothing of value to add to this debate. People stopped reading your garbage long ago. When I see "Fred," I immediately scan down because I just know it's another idiotic smear attempt.

Posted by: Fred Jr | April 17, 2008 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Barack Obama wasn't pummeled last night, he was ambushed by 2 despicable moderators working in concert with Hillary Clinton.Was last night's debate supposed to be a joke or did it just turn out that way because of the incompetent moderators ? Charlie Gibson and George ( can't enough of those good years that I worked for the Clintons ) Stephanoupoulos. Did anybody notice that Chelsea had her own lighting to try and make her look good and even a soft filter in front of the lens....Do you think that maybe she had her own camera devoted to only her close ups? How can McCain possibly lose this election. He has such a commanding grasp of economical issues . His way to fix the problem of soaring gas prices is " Let's give the people a tax holiday." I am afraid that it is John McCain who needs a holiday

Posted by: Ron | April 17, 2008 9:04 PM | Report abuse

what a hyprocrit! He shrewdly deflect legitimate criticism by implying critic as mean spirited while his and wright's contempt other people as mere gaffe that nobody should even dare to say anything about anymore. We'll have a dictator if he's ever elected.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 8:30 PM | Report abuse

OBAMA: DIRTY POLITICIAN FROM THE START: Chicago Sun-Times--A close examination of Obama's first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career: Obama, who runs on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless, first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it. Alice Palmer, friend and mentor to Obama, served the district in the Illinois Senate for much of the 1990s. Decades earlier, she was a community organizer in the area when Obama was growing up in Hawaii. She risked her safe seat to run for Congress and touted Obama as a suitable successor. But when Palmer lost the congressional race, her supporters asked Obama to fold his campaign so she could easily retain her state Senate seat. Obama not only refused to step aside for the woman who was his friend and had recommended him for the seat, he filed challenges that nullified Palmer's hastily gathered nominating petitions, forcing her to withdraw. Had Palmer survived the petition challenge, Obama would have faced the daunting task of taking on an incumbent senator. "He wondered if we should knock everybody off the ballot. How would that look?" said Ronald Davis, the paid Obama campaign consultant whom Obama referred to as his "guru of petitions." Davis filed objections to all four of Obama's Democratic rivals at the candidate's behest. All other candidates were disposed of by Obama's challenges. He then went on to win the election.
http://tinyurl.com/2zwwte

Posted by: Fred | April 17, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Dear Fred, Dear Matt:

Are you both employed by the McCain campaign, or are you one and the same person?

Posted by: Stan2 | April 17, 2008 8:23 PM | Report abuse

My family came to America in 1636. I am descended from Joseph Clarke, the younger brother of John Clarke. John Clarke wrote the first legal document in history which created freedom to choose one's religious affiliation, The Royal Charter of the Colony of Rhode Island. In this land, we've fought in every war and lived through every peace.

Obama will win because the American people back him. We of the silent majority hear what is being said and our silence, as evidenced already, will be broken at the polls.

Beware to those who follow punditry as gospel. Hannity, Limbaugh, Schultz, et al are doing nothing but selling ads and in the process, are selling out our nation. Those who follow these voices are fools who cannot use common sense to figure it out for themselves. When the entertainment value has worn off (and we are getting to that point rapidly), there will be a political fallout that will make the so-called republican "Contract With America" win of 2002 look like a birthday party.

We are a nation of Americans, not republicans and democrats. Those who do not follow this principal are party hacks and traitors to the greater good of our country. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, your hearts are full of selfishness, greed, treason, and sedition. Truth will ultimately win, fear always loses.

Posted by: Cyrus Clarke | April 17, 2008 8:16 PM | Report abuse

As much as everyone is tap-dancing around the fact that race does not matter in this election, why don't you look at The O'Reilley Factor, or Hannity on Fox News. That is why the debate was structured the way it was. ABC hit Obama with recurring, questions, and then later implied that he was getting majority of the speaking time. Why are the folks that have old time thinking so scared to have a black president?? He has proven that he does not subscribe to an exclusively black agenda, but he is for all Americans! Come on people let's get rid of old time thinking. Black people are the same as anyone else. We care about our children, our economy, our country, and yes even our churches. Can we get past the past, and move into 2008 in unity, and in also unified vision??? We can if we face the facts, and move past them!!!!!

Posted by: sldan | April 17, 2008 8:13 PM | Report abuse

One more verse...

HILLARY'S LAMENT

I rant, I rave
I shed some tears.
Can't they count
my 35 years?

It's my turn now,
don't they know?
I wasn't supposed
to have a foe.

Don't they know
it's me, me, me?
I smell a male
conspiracy!

I'll show those guys
I'm done with tears.
Pour the whiskey.
Pass the beers.

I'm old enough
to be his Mama.
How dare they
vote for that Obama.

I got him good,
tag - you're elite.
But it blew back
- now I'M EFFETE!

HOPE and CHANGE
I guess we'll see,
if folks want that
or more Bill & me.

Uh-oh, now here
comes another loss.
Barack just got
thumbs up from THE BOSS.

Another debate,
a tag team we forged.
I really kicked butt
with Charlie and George.

We slammed, we slimed,
We gave it our all
We roasted and grilled him
Yet Obama stood tall.

I thought I'd get kudos
for my clever attack.
But today all I hear
Let's back Barack!

They're cheering him now
those voters in Raliegh.
He just dusted me off
And everyone's jolly!

JEC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlR9DNfqGD4

Posted by: Joyce | April 17, 2008 8:12 PM | Report abuse

FOR LACK OF SPACE, JUST A FEW OF OBAMA'S LIES: 1. his continual reference to his "Christian" faith, which is actually "black liberation theology"; 2. his lies and omissions about his connection to his racist and anti-American "mentor and spiritual adviser"; 3. his lie that the Kennedy family provided the funding for a September 1959 airlift of 81 Kenyan students to the United States that included Obama's father; 4. his current false ad in Pennsylvania in which he lies about taking contributions from the oil companies; 5. his alleged continual opposition to the Iraq war; 6. his denial regarding playing the race card (for which he was busted by Tim Russert); 7. his denial that any meeting took place between his chief economic adviser and the Canadian official about NAFTA; 8. his changing testimony about his relationship with and monetary support from Rezko; 9. his lie about a pharmaceutical lobbyist's involvement in his campaign; 10. his statement that his parents met at the Selma march (when he was actually born 4 year before that); 11. his claim in his book that he received his racial awakening at age nine reading a Life/Ebony Magazine story about a black man who was scarred trying to dye his skin white, when both Life and Ebony say there was no such article. AND JUST A FEW OF OBAMA'S FLIP-FLOPS: 1. Special interests In January, the Obama campaign described union contributions to the campaigns of Clinton and John Edwards as "special interest" money. Obama changed his tune as he began gathering his own union endorsements. He now refers respectfully to unions as the representatives of "working people" and says he is "thrilled" by their support. 2. Public financing Obama replied "yes" in September 2007 when asked if he would agree to public financing of the presidential election if his GOP opponent did the same. Obama has now attached several conditions to such an agreement, including regulating spending by outside groups. His spokesman says the candidate never committed himself on the matter. 3. The Cuba embargo In January 2004, Obama said it was time "to end the embargo with Cuba" because it had "utterly failed in the effort to overthrow Castro." Speaking to a Cuban American audience in Miami in August 2007, he said he would not "take off the embargo" as president because it is "an important inducement for change." 4. Illegal immigration In a March 2004 questionnaire, Obama was asked if the government should "crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants." He replied "Oppose." In a Jan. 31, 2008, televised debate, he said that "we do have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation." 5. Decriminalization of marijuana While running for the U.S. Senate in January 2004, Obama told Illinois college students that he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use. In the Oct. 30, 2007, presidential debate, he joined other Democratic candidates in opposing the decriminalization of marijuana.

Posted by: Fred | April 17, 2008 8:09 PM | Report abuse


This is Hillary Clinton: Whitewater, Travelgate, Monica Lewinsky and impeachment, renting out the Lincoln bedroom, the loss of the Rose Law Firm billing records for nearly 2 years until they were miraculously found in the White House living quarters, removing files from Vince Foster's office following his suicide and before investigators could get there. Her stalling to release her earmark requests from her time in the Senate, as well as her Clinton library donors. Her sell out apology to the African American community (for her campaigns racist comments) which came days too late. Her decline to return $170,000 in campaign contributions from individuals at International Profit Associates, or IPA accused of widespread sexual harassment, and whose CEO is a disbarred lawyer with a criminal record. Lets not forget her campaign eventually returned some $850,000 to Hong Kong businessman Norman Hsu who was found to be a fugitive in a 15-year old theft case. He was indicted for fraud related to his campaign contributions in 2007. Her failed inclusion and diplomacy with congress on her once universal health care bid. Her subsequent surrender and alignment to the health care industry. Her disguise on NAFTA and all free trade agreements. Her conscious vote for war in Iraq. Her blatant flip flop on Florida and Michigan. Her repetitive lies about Bosnia. Her exaggerated foreign policy experience. Her dealing the race card better than Republicans. Clinton photo and prayer breakfast with Rev Wright. Clinton photo with Rezko. Her failure to get the endorsement of close friend Bill Richardson. Her miserable failure to manage her own campaign (and husband). Her charlatan flip flop on pledged delegates and superdelegates by encouraging party elite to vote against the will of the people - "I believe strongly that in a democracy, we should respect the will of the people and to me, that means it's time to do away with the Electoral College and move to the popular election of our president." - Hillary Clinton in 2000

Posted by: Matt | April 17, 2008 8:05 PM | Report abuse

BILL AYERS AND BERNADINE DOHRN

With this as background, is it really all that startling that Sen. Obama enjoys a friendly relationship with Bill Ayers and his wife, Bernadine Dohrn, a pair of terrorists?

I want to be clear here: Not terrorist sympathizers. Terrorists.

The mainstream media, in their zeal to elect a Democrat, are assiduously airbrushing Ayers: "an aging lefty with a foolish past," as the Chicago Sun-Times has so delicately put it. In fact, it is the press that is rife with foolish, aging lefties. Ayers, by contrast, is an unapologetic terrorist with a savage past -- one who beat the system he so reviles when, after his years of fugitivity, terrorism charges were dropped due to government surveillance violations. He's "guilty as sin," by his own concession, but "free as a bird."

Ayers didn't just carry a sign outside the Pentagon on May 19, 1972. He bombed it. As his memoir gleefully recalled, "Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon. The sky was blue. The birds were singing. And the bastards were finally going to get what was coming to them."

Whether Pentagon bombing day was more or less ideal than other days, when he, Dohrn and their Weathermen comrades bombed the U.S. Capitol, the State Department, and sundry banks, police stations and courthouses, Ayers does not say. But on each occasion, there was surely optimism that the bastards were finally going to get what was coming to them.

There were lots of bombs. There is no remorse. "I don't regret setting bombs," he told the New York Times in 2001, sorry only that he and the others "didn't do enough." Like what? We can't be sure, though National Review Online's Jonah Goldberg recounts Ayers's sentiments back in the day: "Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that's where it's really at."

Ayers and Dohrn have done the actual dirty work of terror, while Jeremiah Wright draws the line at waving pom-poms. But the prism through which they assay the dirty work is precisely the same: America has it coming.

For them, that makes all the difference. It's not terror, just chickens coming home to roost. "Terrorists destroy randomly," Ayers rationalizes with nauseating arrogance, "while our actions bore ... the precise stamp of a cut diamond. Terrorists intimidate, while we aimed only to educate." Right. As her companion Discover the Networks profile illustrates, Dohrn now goes even further: insisting their bombings weren't terrorist acts at all: "We rejected terrorism. We were careful not to hurt anybody."

She was, we can be confident, something less than a model of compassion back then -- like at the Weathermen "War Council" meeting in 1969, when she famously gushed over the barbaric Manson Family murders of the pregnant actress Sharon Tate, coffee heiress Abigail Folger, and three others: "Dig it! First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them. They even shoved a fork into the victim's stomach! Wild!"

Charming. The "War Council," it should be noted, concluded by first condemning the United States for -- what else? -- its pervasive racism, then formally declaring war against what the Weathermen called "AmeriKKKa." Rev. Wright would have understood.

It was at the Chicago home of Ayers and Dohrn that Obama, then an up-and-coming "community organizer," had his political coming out party in 1995. Not content with this rite of passage in Lefty World -- where unrepentant terrorists are regarded as progressive luminaries, still working "only to educate" -- both Obamas tended to the relationship with the Ayers.

Barack Obama made a joint appearance with Bill Ayers in 1997 at a University of Chicago panel on the outrage of treating juvenile criminals as if they were, well, criminals. Obama apologists say, "So what? People appear with other people all the time." Nice try. This panel was orchestrated by none other than Michelle Obama, then an Associate Dean of Student Services. Ayers didn't happen to be there -- he was invited by the Obamas to educate students on the question before the house: "Should a Child Ever Be Called a 'Super Predator?'"

And here's how the University's press release chose to describe this would-be super predator:
William Ayers, author of A Kind and Just Parent: The Children of Juvenile Court (Beacon Press, 1997), says "We should call a child a child. A 13-year-old who picks up a gun isn't suddenly an adult. We have to ask other questions: How did he get the gun? Where did it come from?"

Ayers, who spent a year observing the Cook County Temporary Juvenile Detention Center in Chicago, is one of four panelists who will speak on juvenile justice[.]
The other panelists included "Illinois State Sen. Barack Obama ... who is working to block proposed legislation that would throw more juvenile offenders into the adult system." The goal was to promote change, to actuate the vision of "Chicago reformer" Jane Addams, who'd sought "the establishment of a separate court system for children which would act like a 'kind and just parent' for children in crisis." Never mind the crises they'd caused the victims of their wanton murders and mayhem -- the fault for those, surely, was our downright mean society.

The Ayers and Obama, meantime, kept up. There was yet another panel in 2002, Obama and Ayers waxing on "Intellectuals in Times of Crisis." Dohrn, too, was asked to weigh in, on a panel addressing the question, "Why Do Ideas Matter?" I'm sure it was, er, wild.

Posted by: Fred | April 17, 2008 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Hillary is a loser. Period. Her own ego is a bag of bricks she needs to stop carrying. For the sake of the party and her reputation (crazy lady, fruit loops) she needs to endorse Barack Obama. This is not even a debate. She lost. If she steals the nomination, she will have only pulled it off by disenfranchising voters and delegates, arm twisting superdelegates and spitting on democracy.

Posted by: Matt | April 17, 2008 7:51 PM | Report abuse

I turned this off pretty long ago. I think it pretty much a fact that one will consider Obama's job last night good or bad depending upon their support for him or Ms. Clinton. However one things is undeniable. She has every opportunity to contrast her differences with the American people but rather decides to be an active participant in the muck slinging. Thankfully it hurts her in the polls every time she does it. Watch the polls everybody... She's going down. I'd love to see another debate. Lets have a CNN debate moderated by James Carville...will make for great entertainment but no news and little impact.

Posted by: fortheclueless | April 17, 2008 7:45 PM | Report abuse

If I was Obama I wouldn't do anymore debates, because the other networks will look at what ABC did and copy it. True, the ABC "Debate" was more a ABC "Debacle", but it garnered 10.7 million viewers. CBS already is ranked third of the major networks with talk of Katie Couric leaving and CBS farming out field journalism work to CNN. I have no doubt, the moderators of a CBS Debate will have one thing on their minds "how can we get our ratings up? controversial innuendo, linking candidates to others' actions"

Posted by: AJ, IL | April 17, 2008 7:43 PM | Report abuse

I'm not a very political person; but it seems to me that the worst things said 'about' Obama are actually about people he knows; and I would think someone running for president would have to know, meet, listen and talk to a lot of people, (think Six degrees of Kevin Bacon).

So to me, it seems like someone who is willing to consider multiple points of view, and bring people to the discussion table. If he knows people associated with terrorist groups, that can be a GOOD thing.

Fighting terrorism like a traditional war simply does not work; you cannot oppress a group into liking you, and every person killed to 'prevent terrorism' has a brother, a son, a cousin, a friend, or a neighbor, who may see it as one more reason to fight.

Someone who can open up communication between Sunni and Shiite, Arab and Jew, Christian and Muslim. Not by simply ordering them what to do, but by actually listening to their concerns, and helping them solve their problems would be good.

Same in the domestic arena, someone who actually communicates with community leaders, to know what actually concerns the people, instead of paid lobbyists. Someone who is capable of changing their minds; it's not 'waffling', or 'flip flopping' to seriously consider the other side of an argument.

If Hillary wins the democratic nomination, I may have to decide between McCain and Abstaining (or whatever third party/write is is available)

Posted by: Kaen | April 17, 2008 7:42 PM | Report abuse

If I was Obama, I could continue taking the highroad and doing what he is doing, not matter how hard it may seem. If Hillary wants to start using soundbites, and Obama was really the type of slash and burn politician Hillary is desperately turning into. You can best believe there are tons of Hillary Clinton elitist, condescending and hypocritical comments out there for the bloggers to find. Anyone ever question why she went to New York of all places to become a Senator?? Why not go back to your several homestates she likes to use to validate herself, Arkansas, Texas, Pennsylvania oh she left out Illinois!! Why didnt she go back to her home state and run for senator?? I guess New York looked sexier on her list of experiences, she is blindly ambitious to point of arrogance. She never felt this would be a race, and she has been out classed, out worked, out campaigned, out organized and out hustled. Every candidate agreed to rules, regarding Michigan and Florida and either had their names removed or didnt even campaign in the states, and she broke her own agreement now that it suits her political objectives. What does that tell you about her and her mentality?? She has not inspired anyone with her campaign like Obama has, and the last thing America needs is more divisiveness and potential drama with the Clintons. (Can't you just see the lawsuits and investigations coming ie Whitewater etc etc)
This country needs new ideas, new blood and new energy leading it going forward. This nation is being watched all over the world right now and we have a chance to make a statement.

I urge all young people to think for themselves and not pay attention to the BS thats going on in our politics, like OBAMA said "Change happens from the bottom up, not the top down/" We have seen no change happen the last 8 years with George Bush in office.

When someone talks about experience thats one example to look to?? What experience did George Bush have other than being a Governor that did nothing for the state of Texas and bankrupted every company he ever ran, but always came out smelling like rose?? Did anyone watch any of his debate performances?? I don't think so.. LOL

One other thing, who cares about an American Flag pin, last I heard every citizen wasn't being handed one and told they had to wear it to prove their patriotism. That doesn't mean anything thats substantial. Its amazing how we co op these symbols when it meets our needs.

I don't have one and I bet neither does any of the people reading these comments on this article.

Posted by: saintpaulforobama | April 17, 2008 7:42 PM | Report abuse

If Obama couldn't handle last night very well (which he didn't), how is he going to fend off the Republican slime machine. He needs to fess up and tell the truth about the issues like Hillary did last night. When asked about the Bosnia incident, she admitted that she exaggerated, and apologized. When asked about his knowledge of Rev. Wright's views, Obama continues to lie and expect us to believe that he had no idea his "mentor and spiritual adviser" had those views. One would have to be a moron to believe that, after his 20 year close relationship with Wright. He also lied about the flag pin issue (which, by the way, I think is a non-issue), when he stated that he had never said he wouldn't wear one. I immediately went to YouTube and found his statement that he wouldn't wear one in about 2 minutes. He also lied about the issue of his stance on gun control as stated in the questionnaire he filled out in his run for state senate. If Obama doesn't want to have many more tense moments like he had last night, he needs to be honest with the American public; he needs to admit that he is very much like politicians in general. For those who doubt this, here is an article from the Chicago Tribune about how Obama obtained his first elective office. Read this article, and then decide for yourself if he represents "change."
http://tinyurl.com/2zwwte

Posted by: Fred | April 17, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse

"Fear of a Black President cloaked by the disguise of political prowess. Just say you don't think a black guy being President is a good idea."

In other words, if you don't support Obama you're a racist. Brilliant.

Most of Obama's groupies have come up with a better level whining in the wake of his miserable debate performance, claiming that legitimate questions about his character and associations are somehow not relevant. I look forward to seeing them renounce such tactics in the future. Too late for the past, of course.

Posted by: Alex | April 17, 2008 7:37 PM | Report abuse

It seemed like fat-cat Charlie was really concerned about his capital gains taxes being raised. The problem for is that he doesn't seem to know the difference between causation and correlation when it comes to tax revenue. And doesn't he know that Wall Streeters game the system and sell stock when taxes are low? This guy was so completely out of touch, he was actually surprised when the crowd started booing him.

George was taking points straight from right-wing wacko Sean Hannity. He should be embarrassed.

Hillary was constantly negative but she totally undercut her argument with superdelegates by admitting that, yes, Obama could be McCain

Obama was the only person on stage that showed any class at all. This country needs a change.

Posted by: Doug | April 17, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Dear Senator Obama:
We have lots of pithy old sayings here in America. Now, some of them are even older than McCain (they were written in Hieroglyphics of course). "A penny saved is a penny earned" and "See a penny, pick it up, and all the day you'll have good luck" lost they're meaning years ago. But this is one that will never go out of style ... "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen". You should really think about this bit of ancient wisdom.
Perhaps it's time for you to throw in the towel and let an adult carry on the good fight.

Posted by: stan Goldfarb | April 17, 2008 7:33 PM | Report abuse

All of this is meaningless and we're all going to die anyway. Let's put a little love in our hearts (and faces). Also, Hillary is ugly, etc. No love there.

Posted by: abcdefghi | April 17, 2008 7:32 PM | Report abuse

I'm DONE with network television.
I'm DONE with media hacks.
I'm DONE with soundbytes.
I'm VOLUNTEERING for OBAMA!!!

Posted by: Leslie | April 17, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

I do not understand the rabid support for any candidate. I am willing to see the good and bad in everyone and do not rabidly support a candidate at all costs.

The debate last night was a joke not because it was an "attack" on Obama or Clinton, but because the questions asked (Bosnia, Wright, etc) had been answered over and over. I am so sick of hearing about Bosnia, and it was a waste of our time to hear Clinton answer that question AGAIN!! Same goes for flag pins and Rev Wright. Are the moderators such lame journalists they can't think of anything original to ask? I want to know what they are going to do about rebuilding American roads, bridges, and cities since we are at a deficit in this country, but Iraq has a surplus and all new things built by Americans.

I do like Barack Obama, but not because of the background investigations, or responses to questions, I hear over and over, every election that Americans, both Democrat and Republican want something different. Not the same old crap that we get every single time. A person has come along who wants to offer that, and all the media and people do is pick it apart. Why do we have to pick everyone apart? George Bush was a total joke, and because of the media, Americans bought him hook line and sinker. I still do not understand how John Kerry lost to him. He was the WORST debater ever (Wanna buy some wood?). I feel like, as usual, Clinton got screwed last night. Obama got all of the camera time, and she was almost ignored. The moderators even apologized to her for it and still kept ignoring her.

Last night she was not treated as an equal candidate. I felt the whole thing was an interview session for Obama as the Democratic nominee. I am an Obama supporter but Clinton does not deserve to be treated as a joke and a non-candidate.

ABC owes Clinton, Obama, and America an apology. They disgust me. Check out the awesom blog entry about it:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/17/4931/36738/932/497400

Posted by: Disenchanted American | April 17, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

HOW OBAMA HAS USED GEORGE BUSH/KARL ROVE TACTICS TO OBTAIN OVER $62,000,000 FOR HIS CAMPAIGN, SO FAR!:
The Washington Post -- April 11,2008 -- Obama gets plenty of money from big donors too: "Sen. Barack Obama credits his presidential campaign with creating a 'parallel public financing system' built on a wave of modest donations from homemakers and high school teachers. ... But those with wealth and power also have played a critical role in creating Obama's record-breaking fundraising machine, and their generosity has earned them a prominent voice in shaping his campaign. Seventy-nine 'bundlers,' five of them billionaires, have tapped their personal networks to raise at least $200,000 each. ... Donors who have given more than $200 account for about half of Obama's total haul, which stands at nearly $240 million. ... The bundler list also sheds light on those who might seek to influence an Obama White House. They have helped the campaign recruit more than 27,000 donors to write checks for $2,300, the maximum allowed. Donors who have given more than $200 account for about half of Obama's total haul, which stands at nearly $240 million. The use of bundlers was perfected by George W. Bush, who in 2000 and 2004 set some fundraising records that Obama has shattered.
http://tinyurl.com/6dtgq6

Posted by: Fred | April 17, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse


1. Clinton BOMBED countries 7 times day before each Monica's court appearance.

2. Bush FOX shows "Terror Level" from Yellow to Orange when Bush Laden OIL Co. needs

3. Evangelists are eating their bread soaked in Navy and Iraqi BLOOD

4. Republicans want Iraqi war and IRAN war and $6 GAS

5. Hillary negotiated Monica, Wright, Kosovo, NAFTA

6. Hillary ABUSED Bill Richardson's support and after all Hispanics voted, she dumped him in the dissert

7. Hillary has more NO than YES of Voters

8. McS(h)ame can DIE any day and leaving control to Maniacs (one of them will be VP like Dick)

9. Bill Clinton wants FOOLS to vote Hillary and legislate his next round of PLEASURES

Posted by: kg | April 17, 2008 7:29 PM | Report abuse

I think he can't take the heat. He has gotten a free ride thus far and he whines and complains now. Come on. Come on. This was kid's play from what's coming. He's not ready.

And no one seems to notice that, as always, Hillary is so much smarter, clearer, and coherent on policy issues -- gas prices, health, education, even withdrawing from Iraq. I found his reponses on substantive issues unfocused and rambling. But the whiny no-fair reaction really gets me.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Obama did just fine in the debate. The media needs a narrative to keep this thing going, so that's why they say his performance was bad.

BTW, I also think Hillary did fine. Her only problem was that she was too negative. People want something to vote for, not something to vote against.

Posted by: Doug | April 17, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

PLEASE VOTE McS(h)ame for:

1. $6 GAS to each VOTER
2. 100 Years of IRAQ WAR ~ 100,000 Navy Lives 10 Million IRAQIs
3. IRAN WAR
4. AGAIN SETTING UP Dictator rule PAKISTAN
5. Manufacture more DRUGS in AFGHAN and sell to VOTER's KIDS
6. $4 MILK
7. $3 EGGS
8. HOSTILE TAKEOVERS of many COPORATIONS by more ARAB FUNDED COMPANIES
9. LOOSING more CIVIL RIGHTS
10. BURNING MORE WHITE HOUSE DOCUMENTS which are Proofs
11. Terror Planning more of 9/11, Madrid, etc.
12. Again Yellow,Orange,Red Threat Levels in FOX NEWS
13. Releasing Bin Ladens Tapes week before they need FEARED KITTENS
14. AMERICAN IN CLOSET and there will be hardly any country left which is safe for American. A century back, the same American is much respected even in very same Pakistan, Iraq, Iran.
15. Yet, Evengelicals wants to VOTE and eat Bread soaked in BLOOD of Navy and Iraqis.

Posted by: kg | April 17, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

BOSNIA
"NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS"

- Chelsey CLINTON, CLINTON's BIBLE.

COLUMBIA
"NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS"

- Chelsey CLINTON, CLINTON's BIBLE.

IRAQ VOTE
"NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS"

- Chelsey CLINTON, CLINTON's BIBLE.

MONICA
"NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS"

- Chelsey CLINTON, CLINTON's BIBLE.

NAFTA
"NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS"

- Chelsey CLINTON, CLINTON's BIBLE.

HEALTHCARE (ASK IN 2009)
"NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS"

- Chelsey CLINTON, CLINTON's BIBLE.

REST OF CURRENT PROMISES (ASK IN 2009)
"NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS"

- Chelsey CLINTON, CLINTON's BIBLE.


Posted by: kg | April 17, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

The real question is if Obama likes McDonalds as much as the Clinton's. Think about that one for a while.

Posted by: JB Owsley | April 17, 2008 7:26 PM | Report abuse

100% OBAMA Now.

NEXT "KITCHEN SINK" falling on Apr 20th:

Will it be ACT of "CRY" again?

Please guess and get ready to catch the next "KITCHEN SINK" before it lands and explodes.

"NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS" is all Chelsey CLINTON says.

We all knew

GRANNIES LIKE BILL and VOTE Hillary to LEGISLATE "WHITE HOUSE PLEASURES" and stand in line.

No offense but what else is there with Hillary? (BOSNIA, NAFTA, COLUMBIA, MONICA, "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS", PENN, 3AM, IRAQ VOTE, LIES, S3X)

Posted by: kg | April 17, 2008 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Reading about all the comments Obama and his supporters put there today, I was truly amazed. What? Obama and his supporters accuses Charlie and George for "personal attacks"? Have they all collectively acquired Alzheimer's disease, that they have all but forgotten what they've been doing in the past 5 months? What else have they done except personal attacks on Hillary? Too bad Obama's resume is so thin; what else can he run on besides trashing Hillary? They have been the media's darling for so long, that they thought they would never have to taste what they have been dumping onto Hillary. Why are they so special? Who else in this country should be so special? If Obama is elect president (God forbid), can anybody criticize him, even protest him? If that happens, what is MoveOn going to do? To fire all the reporters, and run this country like in Communist China?

Posted by: shameonobama | April 17, 2008 7:26 PM | Report abuse

If Obama couldn't handle last night very well (which he didn't), how is he going to fend off the Republican slime machine. He needs to fess up and tell the truth about the issues like Hillary did last night. When asked about the Bosnia incident, she admitted that she exaggerated, and apologized. When asked about his knowledge of Rev. Wright's views, Obama continues to lie and expect us to believe that he had no idea his "mentor and spiritual adviser" had those views. One would have to be a moron to believe that, after his 20 year close relationship with Wright. He also lied about the flag pin issue (which, by the way, I think is a non-issue), when he stated that he had never said he wouldn't wear one. I immediately went to YouTube and found his statement that he wouldn't wear one in about 2 minutes. He also lied about the issue of his stance on gun control as stated in the questionnaire he filled out in his run for state senate. If Obama doesn't want to have many more tense moments like he had last night, he needs to be honest with the American public; he needs to admit that he is very much like politicians in general. For those who doubt this, here is an article from the Chicago Tribune about how Obama obtained his first elective office. Read this article, and then decide for yourself if he represents "change."
http://tinyurl.com/2zwwte

Posted by: Fred | April 17, 2008 7:24 PM | Report abuse

It was about time that the media asked the questions that all Americans have been asking: who is really Barack Hussein Obama and what does he stand for?
We americans deserve answers to all the questions that were asked, because after all, Obama is running for the United States Presidential seat or the Chief in Command. We americans have questions and need answers about all those close relationships Obama has cultured with "radical" characters that hate and damn America.
The main question still remains:
Does Obama love or hate America?

Posted by: Manolete | April 17, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

And he has been since the start. Yet he has managed to not only stay in the race as a contender but knocked the pre-determined god-given right of Hilary being the democratic nominee off the tracks.

Hillary's campaign has been at this for a long long time. They researched which state her platform was most likely to get her elected. She then moves to NY and gets elected. She then sits around twiddling her thumbs in her current job while fulfilling her real motive which is to run for POTUS in 2008. I find it ironic that a nobody is crushing her in this election...

Seriously, Have any of you watched bush in debates? McCain is not so hot either. Hillary a career politician for most(all?) of her adult life is the best. Its funny because the credentials/skill required to excel at these debates is to be a master BS'er/Liar.

If no one else noticed... once they started asking relevant questions instead of targeted attacks Obama did at least as well as Hillary.

Anyway... Obama has this election wrapped up. McCain does not stand a chance. He is barely ahead of both clinton & obama... and only one of them will be running against him. IE of the 100% whole McCain may have 40% but obama/clinton share 60%

Posted by: Obama is poor at debates | April 17, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Fear of a Black President cloaked by the disguise of political prowess. Just say you don't think a black guy being President is a good idea. The same people attacking Obama still believe if we end this false war we cut and run, non patriotic. Iraq has weapons of Mass Destruction. We are not in a Recession. The troop surge is working. Mission accomplished, and the rest of that BS. Obama is too honest to be President because he cares about common folk. Most of you are sheep.

Posted by: Rick | April 17, 2008 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Obama is so in love with himself that he cannot understand why anyone would question any actions he has taken or why he has been good friends with crooks, Nation of Islam members, had a pastor for years who is anti-american, etc. This man, Obama, is unreal, and he has so many Americans blind to the fact that he is a great speaker but would be a terrible president and commander-in-chief. The world, not just our nation, has too many problems to elect someone such as Obama.

Posted by: Millie Burt | April 17, 2008 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Hillary stated that she should probably get more sleep so that she is not prone to blatant lying. But then she states that she is the best candidate to pick up that 3AM phone call. Well then, she should probably go to sleep very early so that she is well rested for that 3AM phone call and will not be prone to lying just for the hell of it.

Posted by: Economisfit | April 17, 2008 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Why do you people bother to talk about this. We see what we want to see based upon our beliefs and then we use what we see to further ingrain those beliefs.

Watching these debate yet again is like watching Jaws 21. You pretty know whats going to happen but you just want to see how they are going to do it.

Posted by: TC | April 17, 2008 7:20 PM | Report abuse

I actually believe that ABC's debate (which was clearly hack network news) will benefit Obama. I'm optimistic that Americans are smarter than ABC and Hillary think. Americans can see that Obama is far above the silly gossip issues and are sick of Hillary's political slime. Americans are insulted at ABC's hack attempt to raise the bar. Obama has done really well rising above cheap shots and silly season. One last thing, in a conventional sense, cheap gossip has to be the dumbest campaign platform I can think of for a female candidate. That will be tough one for male voters. Every guy out there is sick of some girls s**t.

Posted by: Mike | April 17, 2008 7:13 PM | Report abuse

What on earth is all this "indignant" reaction to ABC's debate about? Please people, we are talking about looking at hiring someone (and it is that) to do the toughest job in the world and we are afraid to ask the really tough questions that linger in the minds of many, many people? I can read about the plans of both people on their websites, ad nauseum, and I can read the opinions of those plans or things less tangible about the candidates in columns, but I want to see how these people can handle the really tough, revealing questions that show a person's character, on-point, without a speech or teleprompter. This was a very tough, stark (no applause - love that!) debate that pushed issues we have with both candidates and those that will certainly be pushed by the Republicans. This is not a job for the faint of heart, or light of spirit, otherwise we all would be applying. Then again, looking at how Obama's income quadrupled since he started running for President in 2007, maybe it would be a good move financially for alot of us. (Sorry, couldn't resist!) :-)

I sat thru the entire debate and tried very hard to keep an open mind. Afterall, one of these two people could be the next President. The only problem I had with the moderators was not nailing the candidates on a direct answer to a specific question, or even an indirect answer would have been nice. All in all, I think Hillary won this one. She seemed to maintain her composure (a good thing when times are tough as a President) and answer most of the questions, more so than Obama. She did loft a few bombs his way and one can argue it was personal, but I thought maybe there's another reason: maybe she really knows that if he is the nominee, that the Republicans will make mincemeat of him with his questionable ties to Rezko, Ayers, Wright, and his revealing comments behind closed doors when cameras aren't rolling and teleprompter is off. If the Republicans can destroy the character of two very good, credible men (Gore, Kerry) without much to work with, what on earth will they do to this guy? Afterall, isn't it MOST important that we elect anyone except a Republican who still thinks Sunni's and Shiites are reversed and thinks GWB's policies are "OK"?!

The problem I am starting to have with Obama is that when his associations or comments are questioned (HIS), he brushes it off (literally) as just "silly season" and "politics as usual". So, I can't have doubts about his judgement or his true feelings about things without being "silly"? Give me a break. The more I read the whining of he and his media/internet supporters, the more I think he isn't ready to take on this job and needs alot more growing up to do.

Posted by: Sunny Florida | April 17, 2008 7:12 PM | Report abuse


The powerful rightwing Jewish Lobby including [AIPAC] American Israel Public Affairs Committee is vexed, frustrated and displeased with Barack Obama's refusal to accept special interest money. The concern is that the Senator's policy prevents them from exerting influence or extracting favor from his administration should he become the next President. Senator Obama has offered his assurance to Jews that he is not a foe- yet this does not seem to allay their resistance to his candidacy.

Hillary Clinton's campaign saw an opening to exploit the Jewish community's apprehension and began stoking the anti-Obama fire behind the scenes. In collaboration with the Clintons, they [the Jewish Lobby] dispatched a number of "candidacy assassinators" including former Clinton special counsel, Lanny Davis, Florida congress woman, Debbie Wasserman-Shultz, California congress man, Brad Sherman, CNN news anchor, Wolfe Blitzer [vis-à-vis Lou Dobbs], Senator Joseph Lieberman and Others to torpedo Obama's nomination bid. The above mentioned Jews continue to fan the flame of hateful passions against the Illinois Senator using demagoguery and pushing the Reverend Wright issue so that it remains in the foreground. The strategy is to convince the voters and the Democratic Super Delegates that Obama would be unelectable in November due to his optics and simultaneously promote Hillary as the only friend of Israel. It is also reported that Democratic Jews are being counseled to vote for John McCain- should Senator Clinton not get the nomination.

Take a look at the YouTube video where Rachel Maddow from Air America recently discussed the topic on her show. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdYzGzvXO0U

Civil Rights and black organizations have dubbed the Jewish Lobby's anti Obama campaign, "mean spirited" but so far have opted to remain tentative. Elected Democrats have also taken note and are increasingly becoming frustrated with Senator Clinton's controversial tactics. They are appalled with her alliance to hawkish groups including John McCain to annihilate a democratic colleague and worry that it provides damaging ammunition to the republicans that could derail Obama's candidacy should he become the nominee. Some Democrats are even calling the conduct treacherous and privately accuse her of deliberately trying to sabotage the Democratic Party because of the unlikely odds of her fairly winning the nomination. The question is- who is willing to bell the Cat? Thus far, a healthy concern for political reprisal has prevented any of the party leaders from offering any public criticism. The Jewish Lobby for decades has effectively manipulated the holocaust to keep politicians beholden to their agenda. Those who oppose are usually labeled anti-Israel or Bigots in order to gain their compliance. In this instance, however, they run the risk of having the tables turned against them if blacks are able to expose hypocrisy in what many view to be a Jewish lynching of Senator Obama.


Posted by: mia | April 17, 2008 7:10 PM | Report abuse

I certainly think that Obama was given ridiculous questions.

The most idiotic by far was the flag pin one. I also know a friend who was annoyed that Obama didn't wear green on St. Patricks day, what an insult to the Irish.

He answered the questions the best he could. Most people could not stay cool under scrutiny like that. I wonder how much of a hissy fit Hillary would've thrown if they asked questions about her staying with her husband....

Posted by: Sara | April 17, 2008 7:09 PM | Report abuse

How funny! "All those questions on William Ayers, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, flag pins and guns made the questioner wonder about the general election attacks yet to come."

The last time I looked, no other presidential candidate was having a Weatherman bomber host fundraisers for him.

This legitimately calls into question Mr. Obama's judgment.

The last time I looked, no other presidential candidate had for the past 20 years been passively countenancing hate speech against white (or black, or Hispanic, or Asian) Americans, Jews (or Catholics, or Muslims, or Buddhists) or Americans who held any other religious faith.

This legitimately calls into question Mr. Obama's moral courage, if nothing else.

The last time I looked, no other presidential candidate forewent the wearing of an American flag pin lapel while his or her spouse was publicly announcing that this was the first time in his or her life s/he was proud of America.

This legitimately calls into question Mr. Obama's political savvy.

The last time I looked, no other political candidate said that Americans "clung" to religion and guns because they "bitter" over economic disparity.

This legitimately calls into question Mr. Obama's grasp of why religion and/or guns are important to many Americans and, in addition, it arguably suggests that Mr. Obama attended Rev. Wright's church because HE's "bitter." Given the disparity of people in this country the president must represent in an unbiased and evenhanded manner, this is legitimately worthy exploring.

While it's disturbing to see Obama and his supporters being so petty and attacking the messenger rather than addressing the message.

When JFK morph into Richard Nixon?

Posted by: GPM | April 17, 2008 7:06 PM | Report abuse

And Bill Clinton pardoned two of the members of the weatherman group. Either the weatherman group isn't an issue because people have moved beyond it, or it is an issue and the Clinton's pardoned two terrorists and Obama just knew them. The fact that he got a $200 donation from Ayers is hardly damning. Just about anyone who wants to can donate money to any campaign they want to. But if you ask me pardoning terrorists is probably the worse of the two possible worlds. Just remember this clintonistas, you can't have it both ways.

Posted by: patrick | April 17, 2008 7:06 PM | Report abuse

The televised events are not debates. but orchestrated media events modeled more after TV series court scenes and tabolids than substantive debate.
Both candidates are competitive, bright, motivated and have long records of public service. Each wants to win and is prepared to accept the burden and responsibility of leadership.

Neither is perfect. When they lie or make factual mistakes they should be held accountable. Journalists should utilize their substantial knowledge about issues and problems we want our leaders to address: economy, environment, world conflicts, health care, education they report and use that to frame a healthy, informative debate. If they set a higher standard during media events, they will force candidates to be better prepared, more thoughtful and honest - or be exposed as unprepared to lead. We will observe our candidates learning and evolving throughout the campaign.

Currently, a candidate knows that an attack gets more attention then substantial propositions. Our press can easily change that by representing a public they seek to enlighten.

I'm committed to selecting our next president based on intelligence, knowledge, judgement, logic compassion and leadership, qualities we have sorely missed these last dozen years. As a voter, I prefer intelligent, probing questions that reveal attitudes and policy. Ask questions that force candidates to articulate, and give opportunity to critique their rivals on these issues. That is the spirit of debate, an exercise that can be used to build character rather than assasinate it.

Posted by: BigCityBoy | April 17, 2008 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Obama has the ability to tune in to the people and tell them what they want to hear. Perfect match between a Politian and Baptist church minister. He identifies the problems but never gives you definite answers on how he will fix these problem. Instead he tells you how these problems are created by everyone but him and how current governing bodies of people are not able to fix them. When bad information about him surfaces he does not face it, he sidesteps it, by again telling people what they want to hear. There is a saying "You are the company you keep". William Ayers and Rev. Jeremiah Wright, and he had no idea of the character of the people. Rev. Jeremiah Wright was considered a friend and invited repeatedly to Obama's home. Then Obama speaks of a racial divide to answer the issue of his relationship with Rev. Jeremiah Wright. I hate to say this but I am more concerned with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright views on United States of America and whether Obama shares these views. And let's not forget the "misspoken" words his favorite answer to when he has spoken the truth and then changes it to a lie. America are you enjoying the Obama show, are you going to buy that for a dollar. Because that is all it is, a big show for the gullible Americans. Vote based on the character and actions and past work of a person not the lies and propaganda coming out of their mouth.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Wow, if he can't handle some challenging questions in one debate, how's he going to do in the general? Will he just refuse to debate McCain? He's had it easy so far and has just shown he can't take a little bit of heat. He did not do a good job answering the policy questions so he can't just blame the 'gotcha' stuff. Didn't hear him complain when Clinton was put on the spot so many times (Putin's successor Medvedev, remember?)and I'm sure he is embarrassed that he had no familiarity with the DC gun control case in front of the Supreme Ct. Sorry, but he looked dull.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Will those who keep saying that Obama is whining or wounded please see what his real reactions are rather than let the headlines give you a more dramatic (albeit incorrect) version designed to make you watch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlR9DNfqGD4

In truth, he played with the whole thing a bit, laughed at himself, and has moved on to getting back to the business of running for President.

For Obama supporters: the clip will make you smile.

Posted by: mishte | April 17, 2008 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Obama spells doom for this country. Not only because of his dubious affiliations with mob members like Rezko and criminals like Auchi, but because of his lack of experience and bias education especially his bizarre religious affiliations. He is like silly putty; able to change his ideas for the public as needed so as to achieve his goal as supreme leader.

His intentions are unclear, but his affiliations are clear. Being surrounded with people like the violent Ayers, or the Hiteresque Wright, or his American hating wife Michelle, or his Kenyan half brother Islamic Jihad terrorist Abongo "Roy" Obama, or his Jewish/Israeli hating best friend Rashid Khalidi, or his close advisor Robert Malley who advocates supporting and helping the terrorist group Hamas, or Mr. McPeaks, Obama's military advisor who open believes American Jews are the "problem." and "Christian Zionists were driving America's policy in Iraq to benefit Israel," or Obama's super delegate and major long term supporter Senator Meeks who openly hates and distrust all whites and gays or Obama's most dangerous affiliation to Mr. Auchi who was Saddam Hussein right hand man and made billions in Iraq and has been a important supporter and behind the scene man throughout Obama's rise to power.

And besides all this questionable laundry in Obama's life, another serious question is why is Obama protected and promoted by the media? Is this also being directed from behind the scenes? The American public has been fooled before and I guess those in power know we can be fooled again. (Kennedy's assassination, Martin Luther King's assassination, the invasion of Iraq...).

The fact that Obama has made it this far demonstrates the collective lack of discriminative intelligence and education of this country. And nothing demonstrates this better than how well Obama plays his black card; which plays on our fear of being labeled a racist.

Posted by: Bobby Alexson | April 17, 2008 6:57 PM | Report abuse

I find it so amazing that no one has picked up on the fact that this is the central theme of Obama's "change" message: we need to change the way that politics is covered in this country. It is exactly that sentiment that draws people to Obama's message: we're tired of politicians and the press running around like school children playing tag while the house is burning to the ground. What is Obama's plan to change it? Simply to set the example by acting like an adult. Is he whining? No, he's setting the new tone for responsible politics and responsible reporting. I think America now knows what happens when you elect the candidate that you would most like to have a beer with.

Posted by: flavor13 | April 17, 2008 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Yes we can. We will change washington along with the our economic, moral, and Global challenges. We will restore our credibilty and status in Washington and around the world.

Posted by: COl.[retd] A,M Khajawall | April 17, 2008 6:54 PM | Report abuse

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel". Samuel Johnson

411. Class; Patriotism; Populism; Subversion
"A patriot is necessarily and invariably a lover of the people. But even this mark may sometimes deceive us.
The people is a very heterogeneous and confused mass of the wealthy and the poor, the wise and the foolish, the good and the bad. Before we confer on a man, who caresses the people, the title of patriot, we must examine to what part of the people he directs his notice. It is proverbially said, that he who dissembles his own character, may be known by that of his companions. If the candidate of patriotism endeavours to infuse right opinions into the higher ranks, and, by their influence, to regulate the lower; if he consorts chiefly with the wise, the temperate, the regular, and the virtuous, his love of the people may be rational and honest. But if his first or principal application be to the indigent, who are always inflammable; to the weak, who are naturally suspicious; to the ignorant, who are easily misled; and to the prfligate, who have no hope but from mischief and confusion; let his love of the people be no longer boasted. No man can reasonably be thought a lover of his country, for roasting an ox, or burning a boot, or attending the meeting at Mile-end, or registering his name in the lumber troop. He may, among the drunkards, be a hearty fellow, and, among sober handicraftmen, a free-spoken gentleman; but he must have some better distinction, before he is a patriot."
Johnson: The Patriot

Posted by: Jim | April 17, 2008 6:52 PM | Report abuse

A vote for Hillary is a vote for more lies, more back alley deals, and the continued fall of America.

Obama could have phased his words better concerning small town PA voters, but he didn't lie. Spend 1 hour in a PA small town bar, and everything Obama said would be confirmed. Lets stop acting like whites don't have issue with minorities, or they do. But we can get pass those issues if we believe we can. Like it or not, Obama told the truth about those voters. Obama is willing to call a spade a spade.
I don't think for one minute that Hillary has the best interest of the country United States in mine. Truthfully speaking, the democratic race should be between Obama and John Edwards.

The country and the world want America to STEP-UP and vote for the best candidate. Clinton and McCain represent the pass, Obama is the future, and the future is NOW!!

Posted by: Chuck | April 17, 2008 6:51 PM | Report abuse

i don't mind it when a candidate is challenged about something he/she said herself. But Obama is getting smeared, tarred and feathered for things he did not say and has never said. It's guilt by association. The Rev. Wright "scandal" has been beaten to death for a month and anyone who's not totally brain dead has already heard it ad infinitem, as well as Obama's response, and there was NO JUSTIFICATION to bring it up again except to try to start a catfight between Obama and Clinton. Ditto the Bosnia episode.

The moderators spent the vast majority of the debate time asking meaningless questions about gossip, slander, and vicious rumors that we've all heard and heard and heard again.

The lapel pin: all those monsters in the White House who lied us into a war in Iraq, completely ignored the war in Afghanistan (where our REAL enemies were), coddled Pakistan while bin Laden and the Taliban were setting up sanctuaries there...those monsters ALL wear lapel pins. That doesn't make them saints, and it doesn't make Obama a traitor for not wearing the pin.

Rev. Wright: Obama never uttered those words, nor did he put those words into Rev. Wright's mouth. Furthermore, everyone with two brain cells knows that Fox and CBS cherry-picked the most inflammatory 3 minutes worth of sound bites out of FOURTEEN THOUSAND HOURS of sermons and speeches because they knew that a lot of you would be stupid enough to think that those words are the only kind that Wright uttered. Given that Rev. Wright was the pastor of a multi-racial church (yes, Trinity has white members too), given the fact that he has ministered to a community all but forgotten and abandoned by politicians of both parties, given the fact that he is liked and respected throughout the United Churches of Christ, it's fair to say that the characterizations used to smear him...and Obama by proximity...are nothing more than slander and libel.

Bosnia: Yeah, yeah, she exaggerated, misspoke, lied, whatever. But Clinton has apologized for it and there's just nothing else to say...the objective was to try to humiliate her, make her grovel or, even better, get Obama to pile on. He graciously declined.

Bittergate: That's been pretty thoroughly digested too. He's apologized, there's nothing more he can say. Besides, most people know that when Republicans want to deal the God card, the gun card, the race card, the gender card, the "homosexual agenda" card, the anti-immigration card...they deal ALL THOSE CARDS directly to the very people Obama was speaking about. In other words, he spoke the truth...he just didn't speak enough of it. Oh well.

What this country NEEDED to hear was:

Health care insurance: the candidates' positions are similar but Clinton's proposal is punitive toward people who cannot afford to pay for health insurance but don't qualify for government aid.

The foreclosure crisis: millions are losing their homes, including renters, and there's very little affordable housing for them to move into. What do the candidates propose?

The collapsing dollar: we're feeling the effects everywhere, including overseas where millions of service members and their families are struggling not only with the European levels of inflation for fuel and food, but a 60% deflation of the dollar. And for all the "support our troops" bumper stickers and rhetoric, service members are VERY poorly paid. What do the candidates propose to do to strengthen the dollar?

The failing war effort in Afghanistan: the Taliban has retaken almost half the country, poppy production is at an all time high, reconstruction has stalled, and Pakistan is covertly providing sanctuary for al-qaeda and the Taliban. Where do the candidates stand on this, since this really IS a must-win war. Iraq is a lost cause and most people know there's no victory to be had there.

Yes, there were many many IMPORTANT issues that should have been debated but were not because Stephanopoulos and Gibson were breaking a sweat trying to provoke verbal bloodshed because it's more entertaining...totally irrelevant but entertaining, which is what ABC is all about since Disney bought the company.

ABC did BOTH candidates a grave disservice, not to mention the 10+ million viewers. The National Enquirer could have done a better job if "gotcha" games were the objective. I'll never watch another debate hosted by ABC. Nor will I watch anything that Stephanopoulos or Gibson is involved in.

Utterly pathetic, reckless and irresponsible.

Posted by: windrider | April 17, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

And Obama amd Obama supporters, how does it feel to be under the same scrunity that Clinton has always been under? Not so good, is it. But she can take the pressure and she is the most qualified candidate.

Ok, so she faces this issue by whining about unfair questions. It's "unfair", must be because she is a woman. Needed sketch comedy show to help defend her. Obama, took the lumps, and is moving on. As for tough, I guess Hilary is the tougher candidate, dodging all that sniper fire.

As for tough, I guess Hilary is the tougher candidate, dodging all that sniper fire.

As for tough, I guess Hilary is the tougher candidate, dodging all that sniper fire.

As for tough, I guess Hilary is the tougher candidate, dodging all that sniper fire.

Oops those last 4 lines was a typo, as I am typing so fast...

Posted by: WHAT!? | April 17, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

From a 1996 New York Times review of James B. Stewart's book "Blood Sport" which detailed the scandals and excesses of the Clintons in their first term in office:

"In their single meeting Mr. Stewart found Mrs. Clinton an attractive person, vital and lively, and many others say much the same. But her responses to the public's questions about her motives and behavior reveal a closed, secretive and rigid personality. William Safire, a columnist for this newspaper, has called Mrs. Clinton a 'congenital liar,' and she has certainly made some statements that seem conspicuously unsupported by the available evidence -- the denial, for example, that she took more than a passing interest in the travel office affair; the denial that she ever did much legal work for Mr. McDougal's bank; the assertion (soon dropped) that she made all that money in cattle futures without help. But to label these claims lies is to miss the character trait that appears to inspire them. Mrs. Clinton seems to have carried into adult life the world view of a little girl determined to be perfect. She did not spill the milk; the cat spilled the milk, her friend spilled the milk, the milk only looks spilled, it is not actually milk. . . . With each question and response the jaw clenches tighter and the lips draw thinner." (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D04E7DA1439F937A15750C0A960958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1)

As I said earlier, things haven't changed much in the intervening years. (Just watch her squirming last night when asked about her Bosnia lie.) And keep in mind that this book was written more than two years BERFORE the whole Lewinsky mess hit the fan and Hillary tried to trash Monica as being the liar. You would think she would have learned something from that "experience." But then, experience doesn't always confer wisdom.

Posted by: whatmeregister | April 17, 2008 6:46 PM | Report abuse

the guy stinks at debates ..he has pretty much in all of them.

And he will in the national ones against McCain.

McCain will win unfortunatly

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 6:44 PM | Report abuse

This theme of "Obama doesn't have concrete plans" I see coming from some unobservant people is killing me. They're there, but some people won't remove the bias that clogs their ears to hear it. Also, there's only ten or so minutes left in debates and interviews to discuss them after the media has finished vomiting the same gossip...

Posted by: Bruce Neel | April 17, 2008 6:44 PM | Report abuse

For all of Obama's so called limited experience, he has enough Old School Campaign sense as a Democrat to not deliberately and divisively demean and denigrate another Democrat in a Primary contest. Go back to the early Debates, which were spirited, heated and informative as to who was best on the Issues. Compare that to the Set-Up Hatchet Job last night where we seen a Statesman being maligned out of political ambition and desperation. Not a pretty sight. The Polls reflect this recent Clinton campaign conduct taken right out of the Book; President for Dummies, written by Penn, Carville, and Rove. I am truly proud of Americans who have expressed with their Votes that they reject Old Washington Politics as Usual, that insults Voters by do and say anything Office seekers.

Posted by: Fareed | April 17, 2008 6:43 PM | Report abuse

"Who's more patriotic, you or your pastor?"

American political reporting has hit a new low.

I feel bad for some single mother, sitting alone in her kitchen after putting the kids to bed, reading the latest foreclosure notice that says she's going to lose her home, and then turning on the television to see that nonsense. As if this country doesn't have more important issues to deal with right now. Last time I checked, we were in the middle of two long-running wars and at the start of an economic recession. Can you imagine an election during WWII that focused on weather each candidate "loved their country more" than their pastor? Sheer idiocy. And what was ABC thinking to make a former Clinton staffer one of the moderators? Is the term "conflict of interests" so hard to grasp? I'm not saying his silly questions were motivated by his prior relationship with the Clintons, but the mere perception of impropriety should have been enough for ABC to pass him over for the moderator job.


Posted by: fjfjdvdv | April 17, 2008 6:31 PM | Report abuse

I hope that he actually talked about issues in between spinning the debate and brushing off his shoulders.

Seriously.

Posted by: Evie | April 17, 2008 6:27 PM | Report abuse

"I was not meant for the job or the spotlight of public life in Washington. Here ruining people is considered sport."--from Vincent Foster's letter of resignation (or suicide note?) discovered in his briefcase after he shot himself in Fort Marcy Park in 1993. Foster was a friend and former partner of Hillary Clinton's at the Rose Law Firm in Arkansas who followed the Clintons to Washington after Bill's victory in the 1992 presidential election.

Politics haven't change much since then. And what's ironic is that Hillary Clinton is now one of the chief offenders, while Barack Obama is the one trying to change this state of affairs. "Bitter" irony, eh?

Posted by: whatmeregister | April 17, 2008 6:24 PM | Report abuse

He is making rookie mistakes and he is going to in the national election too.

I doubt we have heard the last of the Obama skeletons in the closet.

If he can't take a fight with Hillary how is going to beat the republican spin machine in Nov???

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Obama is a racist.But worst of all -he is an impostor.HE must drop out for the good of DP.

Posted by: MIke | April 17, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Obama is a racist.But worst of all -he is an impostor.HE must drop out for the good of DP.

Posted by: MIke | April 17, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Obama is doing the right thing, say many, many people. He is saying the right things, he is inspirational and many people like him for President. When Hillary sucks Obama into defending himself, she has won. Like most of us, Obama is aware that his solutions aren't 100% perfect, 100% of the time. Unlike Hillary who attempted to steal the Historic White House Furniture at her first opportunity, as first lady.

Posted by: Terryeo | April 17, 2008 6:18 PM | Report abuse

why is it they or somebody talks about
McCain girlfriend?

Posted by: ERNIE | April 17, 2008 6:18 PM | Report abuse

I agree completely with what Obama is saying.
It should be obvious to anyone paying attention how these stupid irrelevant details take more precedent over the state of the economy, war, and civil liberties being lost. And for what?
I haven't heard anything from these pampered "News" people that expresses my concerns as well as Obama has. I am a Gun clinging, God loving man living in Po-Dunk Oregon. Yes, I am bitter about being having to work longer and longer hours to scrape by. I am bitter after losing almost all respect for my government these past 10 years or so. I am bitter about so much that I cant change, see it getting worse, and all I have is this stupid little vote every couple years that doesn't do a damn thing to change the cesspool we all know D.C. has become.

Posted by: tai hunter | April 17, 2008 6:17 PM | Report abuse

It is obvious that Obama is comfortable in a controlled environment. For ex, his oratory skills are brilliant, but when he has to give candid answers, he sinks. As much as I like Obama his performance last night was to say the least dissapointing. I'm not sure he can withstand the pressure necessary for a long presidential campaign.

Posted by: Tom | April 17, 2008 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Each of you that feel that he does not love this nation is racist. First, are we accusing McCain or Hillary of being unpatriotic because they do not wear an American pin. How many of you wear the American pin to work everyday, to church, to pick up your kids from school -- noone. This will always be the case when a Black man wants to get into an arena that White Americans believe he has no business in. Second, the media is showing its lack of knowledge about what the American people want. We are not interested in who this man knows that may or may not have had a past. How many of you have relatives and friends that have broken the law or done something dishonest -- like Bill Clinton? This is the worst time in our history as Americans because we can not see the forest for the trees in this race. What's important, protecting our country, restoring our economy or finding out how many American pins Obama has worn in his lifetime??

Posted by: mjackson atlanta | April 17, 2008 6:16 PM | Report abuse

If I ran for president you would not find...
1. I sat in a church listening to a racist for 20 years. Then gave the racist I called "like an uncle to me" over 20,000 bucks.
2. I had a slum lord help me buy my house.
3. Had an ex terrorist on my campaign.
4. Had a guy out there saying I gave BJ's in a limo while buying cocain. ( Not saying this factual just that this is Larry Sinclair's version of events and Obama denies it)
5. Had a wife writing papers at Harvard calling Americans "sloths" and "mean".
6. Repeatedly having to answer to misspoken words showing my lack of respect for my fellow Americans.
NOBAMA!

This guy is a tool. He could say he is gonna take a dump on the White House lawn and his supporters would say "It's change we can believe in."


It is becoming more and more apparent the disdain Obama and his wife have for their country and their fellow Americans...whom he wants to lead.

How many more "misspoken" words must be heard before people get the message...

They don't think much of us.


Hillary 08

Keep drinking the Obama kool aid Obamadrones.

"He and his wife have helped to legitimize the radical right wing argument that liberals "hate" America."...

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who thinks that being minister in a black church equates to being a member of the KKK is either a racist or a moron.

Posted by: Javalation | April 17, 2008 6:10 PM | Report abuse

That was a tough job interview. I think he'll get the job. Who was the tacky woman and what was she doing there?

Posted by: Jim B | April 17, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

vote for Mcain so our soliders will be there for 100 years.

IMPEACH

BUSH AND CHENEY NOW

Posted by: ERNIE | April 17, 2008 6:08 PM | Report abuse


Who won the ABC Democratic Debate in Philadelphia Pennsylvania?

http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=2137

.

Posted by: Frank, Austin | April 17, 2008 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Like it really matters who wears an effing pin....get real!!! Where was her effing pin?

Posted by: margo | April 17, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

I was reading over some of the comments here and I am deeply disturbed by how quickly everyone gets back to the bickering and name calling, rather than discussing the big issue of how such a debate ever happened in the first place. This debate was an insult to the candidates and the American people. The fact that they would spend 45 minutes on these questions shows that hosts believe that these are the issues that Americans believe are important.

I don't care if Hillary is gay or Obama did some coke. I don't care if Obama has freinds and associates whose politicas don't jibe with mine. I don't care that Bill Clinton pardoned a bunch of people. What I do care about is finding a president that will get the lobbyests and corporations out of influencing legislation. I care about finding solutions to our failing economy and failing war. I care about finding a way to get Americans to believe that their government is actually treir government and not the govenment of a few very influential people.

If I had 90 minutes to ask questions of two of the most important people on earth right now you can bet they would have been very different from the questions I heard last night. I don't much care how the candidates answered the questions becasue the questions were stupid. It is if someone asked Obama and Clinton how they felt about the tooth fairy, and then having us judge who gave the better answer.

Posted by: captbilly | April 17, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

ABC has shown itself to be just another arm of the predatory media system. A whiff of blood in the water and they gather like frenzied sharks. If it bleeds, it leads. Same ole same ole. It's unacceptable for "professional" journalist/moderators not to give the candidates the opportunity to discuss what are the real crises facing our nation. Shame on the Old Media.

Posted by: arcataberry | April 17, 2008 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Obama is pathetic. Maybe he should go home and lick his wounds. Thank you, Hillary, for staying in the fight and allowing me to weigh in on the election during the West Virginia primary on May 13th. It will be a rare privilege!

Posted by: ObamaPlunge | April 17, 2008 6:00 PM | Report abuse

What has the bush administration done over the last seven and half years? Well, got us stuck in a never-ending war, a recession, killed the epa, this list could go on forever. What does McCain have to offer? More of the same.

Posted by: John Austin | April 17, 2008 6:00 PM | Report abuse

McCain looks better all the time... the way these Dem's are behaving, their won't be any support left.

I can see it happening here - even in Portland, Oregon.

Posted by: Mac | April 17, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Denice, Atlanta GA:

I believe the polls currently show her ahead in West Virginia, Montana, and Indiana too (after his dismal performance last night, I wouldn't be surprised if she picks up even more ; )

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Interesting... From my perspective I see Hillary lovers praising ABC while the rest of the world calls it "the worst debate ever." I see Hilary lovers shout about how bad "Obama spoke." I think for the crap questions that were given to him, he called them out on it. Get past the "political gas" and get to the real issues. I'm leaning towards the intellectual Obama, not the "well prepared" Hillary.

Posted by: WA Deciding Voter | April 17, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Hilliary a mistake and a lie are not the same thing.

Hilliary you live in a glass house and every time you throw a stone you get another one of your windows knocked out.

Trying to link Obama to a former Weatherman who was active when Obama was 8 years old made you look stupid. Hilliary did you forget Bill had pardoned two other Weatherman? That really made you look bad.

P.S. stop gushing like a school girl it does not become you as a 35 year political veteran.

Enjoy your final win in Philadelpia, I believe it will be your last one. Get ready to campaign for your fellow Democrat.

You should be tired of dodging bullets Bosnia should have cured you of that. Oh that is right you mispoke, made a mistake, were inaccurate, you speak too many words everyday ...

Posted by: Denice, Atlanta GA | April 17, 2008 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Well Tre.I swear that my cat is more intelligent than you.Obama must drop out sause if he is the president then we going to have- foreclose of our homes,
file for bankruptcy ect.

I say,"NO Obama!!!" "NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"

Posted by: MIke | April 17, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

This is the most entertaining reading yet on squabbling over supporters and the world coming to an end nay sayers!

Posted by: johnny | April 17, 2008 5:47 PM | Report abuse

I am a huge Obama supporter but he has to find a way to win PA even if just by 1 vote.

If the race continues it will be until August....within 2-3 weeks over 1/2 of his supporters will support McCain over Hillary and her supporters will support McCain over Obama.

Unless Obama can pull off an upset in PA both candidates will be DOWN BIG against McCain, and the Democratic Party will be forever divided.

I actually didn't mind idea of a long contest but the kitchen sink strategy is the worst thing for the Democrats. Even as Obama takes the higher power a lot of his supporters don't like Hillary's tactics and their responses the the media wrongly frame Obama's campaign.

If Obama can win PA, he'll have the nomination and the presidency.....if not neither democratic candidate will emerge and have it.

Questions Hillary should have been asked about

1) NAFTA lies
2) CAFTA issue (Mark Penn and Bill taking money for getting a bill past Hillary says she is against.
3) Disaster she has had in running a campaign
4) Fact that she needs 70% of remaining delegates to win and only won 60% of one state, Arkansas. Asking her what her reasons are for staying in the raise and whether she has any consideration for Democratic party.
5) Apology for statements supporting McCain over her opponent alligning herself with him.

Here is what sucks about this debate. As Obama doesn't fill the media with negative attacks on Hillary unless the media is really on it, his campaign doesn't push for these issues to be covered. So this is sort of a disadvantage to Obama. Early on the media would nonetheless cover the issues, but now they sort of work off what the campaigns are saying.

Obama really has to find a way to win Pennsylvania as otherwise it is toast for either Democrat.

I don't see how either could win past PA.

Right now Obama is taking blows from Hillary and the Republicans, it is just too much. Hillary will soon too. I think we will see much more destructive Fox News coverage on her than we saw of Reverend Wright on Obama. There is so much dirt on her.

Obama needs to really win PA. If he does that the race will be over. If it continues it would be hell for the Democratic Party and we will have Bush 3 (McCain).

The negative campaigning of Hillary is awful. To say she will do everything she can if Obama gets the nomination to help him is too little too late. She won't have any credibility with what she has said in the past. She will have to admit she was wrong on so many things she has said, people won't even trust some of her statements as they will contradict what she is saying now.

Hillary got a FREE PASS in the debate which should prove she was not tested of what she would handle from the Republicans.

She will be forced to address all the things she has said for 20 years. The Republicans will do a full investigation on her and she will not come out clean. As a result it would be a completely negative race, and have people voting for the lesser of two evils.

Hillary would mobilize the Republicans to vote against her. She would lose the support of all the new voters Obama brought to the table who want a new kind of politics.

If Obama wins in PA, he will get nomination and presidency...otherwise either Hillary or Obama would lose to McCain.

Posted by: Dale | April 17, 2008 5:46 PM | Report abuse

It's apparent after last nites debate that Obama can't take the heat...He was uncomfortable, looked peeved, and was rather unpresidential in most of his responses. If he can't handle this kind of heat, then how's he gonna handle the Republican's when they start to fan the flames? Obama is not electable due to this...McCain will beat him easily...Clinton is the only candidate who can take the heat and dish it out...McCain better watch out in Nov....Clinton's coming

Posted by: awlswll | April 17, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Most blatently, Jeremiah Wright contends (with no evidence to back this up, of course) that the American government "started" HIV/AIDS as some sort of genocidal conspiracy against the Black Community.

Right up there, IMHO, although I guess it could technically fall into another man's (crude) opinion: "Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain't! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty (Wright pantomimes sexual intercourse and makes grunting noises)."

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:42 PM | Report abuse

This all makes me sick. Let's get to the real issues...Obama is right, while Hillary and the rest of them pick and pick and pick, another person looses their job, another soldier dies, the price of oil creeps higher....why don't people shut their mouth and stick to what matters. I don't care if he does not wear a pin. What does that have to do with anything. Since when does wearing a flag pin signify patriotism. People better take a step back and realize that we need change. Obama is the only candidate whom truly offers that. Listen to his idea's for our country. Turn away from the negativity and open your heart to change.

Posted by: Beth Gould | April 17, 2008 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Although I am a Republican, the debate showed me the impact that white female voters over 45 years of age will have in Pennsylvania and throughout the country. Those are Hillary's core voters. The only way Obama can overcome the inherent backlash from those older white women, when he does not select Hillary as his VP, is by selecting Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebellius or Missouri Senator Claire McCaskil. This is a more compatible ticket and answere the question of whether the country is ready to vote for a women or if they are just reluctant to vote for a woman named Clinton.

Posted by: jk | April 17, 2008 5:42 PM | Report abuse

The press continues to support Obama. In what I thought was finally a candid scrutiny of his potential leadership, the press jumps all over ABC for being "brutal" and unfair, calling into question the network's journalistic integrity. The fact of the matter is that Obama has some questionable attributes that are concerns to many voters. And it's important to address these hard-pressing issues to determine whether or not they are legitimate. In a round-about way, it's a favor to Obama because if he wins the candidacy, these issues will only be magnified. If he can address them and redeem himself now, the better. But no, any ounce of seemingly unfavorable attention and let's point the finger at the asker.

Furthermore, Obama and his campaign want it both ways. They want to put him high on the integrity and "new politician" pulpit, yet the want to reserve the right to play "politics as usual" - as seen in last night's debate when instead of solely accounting for himself with the "bitter" quotes ("new politics"), he shoots one back at Hillary and brings up the 1992 "cookies" heat ("old politics"). For me there's a lot of incongruities between what he says he is and what he does. And for someone who claims to be the candidate of integrity, I'm not afraid to hold him more accountable when his actions stray from these claims.

Posted by: MM | April 17, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

I swear that my 13 year old son is more intelligent than some of you ignorant Americans who get their education from the corporate media and headlines.

Some of you would rather lose your home than vote for Obama, a brilliant man and a leader with integrity that America sorely needs at this time!

It's the same old stupid tricks you keep falling for.

Some of you would rather lose your job
or foreclose on your home
or file for bankruptcy
or send thousands more America soldiers to Iraq to be killed or maimed.

Well, I say, "NOT THIS TIME!"

OBAMA FOR PRESIDENT 2008


I say, "NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"
"NOT THIS TIME!"

Posted by: Tre | April 17, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Obama, the media darling, totally fell apart under tough questions. This proves he could never hold up under the Republican machine in a General Election. This was easy compared to the questions, comments and fire they would throw his way.

And Obama amd Obama supporters, how does it feel to be under the same scrunity that Clinton has always been under? Not so good, is it. But she can take the pressure and she is the most qualified candidate. She always has been. ABC asked both of them tough questions. And after about 20 debates on issues, it was time someone asked the questions on character. Especially Obama, who never did answer Americans about the Wright controversy. And when he wants Americans to vote for him to run America, he needs to answer to this. Thanks ABC.

Posted by: Texas Democrat | April 17, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

What Hillary Clinton thinks of working folks.

"Screw 'em," she told her husband. "You don't owe them a thing, Bill. They're doing nothing for you; you don't have to do anything for them." -- Hillary Clinton, 1995.

... gotcha HillBill

Posted by: John | April 17, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

This was the most even-handed debate thus far. Obama's followers seem to feel that any questioning of their leader is heresy.

Posted by: yael | April 17, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Can One person in here tell me what rev Wright said that was wrong? Please help me understand which statement was false?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

I think that Hillary lied.
I think that barack can not be held responsible for what happened when he was 8 years old. all he can account for is HIS actions and words. People are trying to ascibe ANOTHER person's actions to Obama. That is desperate!

Posted by: xxcarte | April 17, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

No, the GOP won't need to focus on silly non-issues. Mr. Obama's extreme liberal positions on highly important issues will give the GOP enough material to work with.

Posted by: None of the Above | April 17, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

So, a Presidential Pardon for, let's say, someone like Nelson Mandela, would always be "worse"?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

So now I get it. If you can't continue to point a finger and accuse someone because you don't like them they're whining. It's time to stop digging up the same old dirt and start looking at the real issues at hand. This country is in trouble, bigger trouble than a lot of you want to acknowledge. But then you're the ones who want politics as usual, you're probably the same ones whose pockets are full and refrigerators are full you're not worrying about healthcare or growing old, none of the things that really matter in this country like the rest of us who don't have as much and work harder for what we have.

Posted by: Janice | April 17, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse


WAKE UP AMRICA! Obama is great at delivering prepared speeches with the use of a teleprompter, having studied Jeremiah Wright's mesmerizing techniques from the pews for 20 years. But he is halting, tentative, and weak when delivering impromptu remarks or answering debate questions. Obama loves to lecture white people on what is wrong with American society in his left-wing socialist agenda-Black Liberation Theology-opinion. His campaign is devoid any particular policy. "We are the 'hope".. of the future," sayeth the silver-tongued Obama."We can remake this world as it should be." Believe in me and I shall redeem not just you but your country with -"Hope" "Change" & "Words."

#1.HAMAS "HOPING" for "CHANGE" with OBAMA?
04/14/08-JERUSALEM -Hamas has expressed "hope" Sen. Barack Obama will win the presidential elections and "change" America's foreign policy. "We like Mr. Obama, and we "hope" that he will win the election Ahmed Yousuf, Hamas' top political adviser in the Gaza Strip said., "I understand American politics and this is the season for elections and everybody tries to sound like he's a friend of the Israelis" .
#2."If you look at Barack Obama's [diverse] audiences and look at the effect of his "words," those people are being transformed from what they were," "This young man is the "hope" of the entire world that America will "change" and be made better."said Louis Farrakhan.
#3. 07/22/07 - Hamas Manifesto reprinted on Rev. Wright's church's newsletter that defended terrorism as legitimate resistance. Compares the charter to Declaration of Independence....
CAVEAT EMPTOR
The Company He Keeps -Meet Obama's Circle by Andrew C. McCarthy 04/11/08
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YThjYTU1ZDBjNmQ2YzcwNzU1MmYwN2JiMWY0ZGI0NDA

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

you got me on that one. No way around that. He lied about selma and the kennedy's...

what's hillary's excuse?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Obama is right. The politics of "gotcha" is a sick waste of time. It's time to turn the page. Next time I think he should just say - "you know, that's a silly question and one I have already answered a number of times. Instead I think I will talk about what I propose to do about the mortgage crisis."

Posted by: Chuck | April 17, 2008 5:14 PM | Report abuse

I think if it's inappropriate to accept campaign money from a former terrorist, it would be worse to actively pardon a former terrorist. Why? Because a pardon makes a specific statement amount the terrorist activity (excusing it) while accepting money from a former terrorist makes no statement in any way about the donor's former activities.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

This is a fairly high standard to prove:

"LIE": a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

I guess you think he would be comfortable explaining how he was conceived during the Selma march and he missed it by 4 years or how the kennedys helped his father get to America..he missed that one by a year...and the kennedys had not one think about helping his father get to America..should I go on?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

"Wouldn't the more accurate term be 'a lie'?"

No.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

#1 "bride" = "bribe"

#2 Presidential Pardons are specifically allowed under the U.S. Constitution -- there are plenty of legitimate reasons for granting them to former terrorists - BRIBES (or even "brides" since slavery is also illegal) is not one of them.


lol @ "brides"-- I was wondering what you meant by that!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Obama's performance was dismal as usual. He continues to look befuddled and confused. And I think we 'MUST' ask him these tough questions about his associations. He'll never explain them well enough for me and will never get my vote because of it. If people are not convinced enough by what they've seen with Obama - they never will be. As far as ABC goes - I'm proud they asked these questions. What policy questions have you not clarified in the previous 15 debates? If not Hillary, I'm voting re... re... re... ugh... I'll write someone in as a candidate.

Posted by: richardm | April 17, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

LOL -- if a REPUBLICAN running for President had once been "friends" with Grand Wizard of the KKK, that wouldn't be relevant?! You guys are so funny!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

"I didn't think she had any uncomfortable body language when explaining her Bosnia sniper fire misstatement"

Funny that you call it a "misstatement" when she repeated it on 4 separate occasions for the specific purpose of touting her commander in chief credentials. Wouldn't the more accurate term be "a lie"?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

#1 "bride" = "bribe"

#2 Presidential Pardons are specifically allowed under the U.S. Constitution -- there are plenty of legitimate reasons for granting them to former terrorists - BRIBES (or even "brides" since slavery is also illegal) is not one of them.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

I didn't think she had any uncomfortable body language when explaining her Bosnia sniper fire misstatement.

...of course not.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

I guess if he was "once" friends with David Duke, that wouldn't be "relevant" either...

Well, explain how it is relevant, then.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

I didn't think she had any uncomfortable body language when explaining her Bosnia sniper fire misstatement.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

"I'd say allowing a former terrorist to host a campaign event for you is worse . . . less you accepted a bride for pardoning a former terrorist."

Okay, care to explain why?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

I just have to say George Stephanapoulus is an absolute idiot loser for asking that dumbass question about the former weather underground guy. I mean how does that person have anything to do with Obama at all???!! But HE wants to ask such a question? That is Fox News question and he totally demeaned himself to that low level. He should know better for *&%^#s sake he's nationally televised reporter/analyst, why would he demean himself for asking such a shallow low blow useless quuestion to a debate...he made ABC look like a tabloid last night, what a shame.

Posted by: yaye | April 17, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone else notice Hillary's uncomfortable body language when explaining her Bosnia sniper fire lie? She looked everywhere but straight ahead, and seemed to avert looking any other person in the eye while she was speaking. She could have just said, "I lied", but she didn't. She couldn't bring herself to do it.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

I'd say allowing a former terrorist to host a campaign event for you is worse . . . less you accepted a bride for pardoning a former terrorist.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Holy Smokes, I just noticed that I have never worn a flag pin... Better to get one quick before McCain calls me unpatriotic... hey wait a minute, McCain does not wear a flag pin either! I guess our war hero in not patriotic. Or mybe, this whole thing is just a bunch on BS! Wake up america!

Posted by: Donald Martin | April 17, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

I guess if he was "once" friends with David Duke, that wouldn't be "relevant" either . . .

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

So Hillary can complain to SNL that the media is treating her unfairly because she's a woman, that the other candidates are ganging up on her, because she's a woman, but now argue that she's in the best position to withstand attacks in the fall?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

So which is worse...allowing a former terrorist to host a campaign event for you OR pardoning a former terrorist?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Wait, so Obama is whining because he correctly points out that the media focused on "gotcha"-like, tabloid-fodder questions, instead of on the issues that actually affect public policy? Isn't he pointing out the position of many voters and public figures alike, like Clinton supporter Lanny Davis? Didn't Davis write an entire book about how we need to elevate our political discourse beyond gotcha politics?

Secondly, the Ayers assosiaction is not that he is a CURRENT terrorist. The issue is whether Obama showed poor judgment about serving on a board with a person who was a terrorist 40 years ago. There's NO evidence that Ayers is still actively "bombing" places now. There was no allegation that he and Obama share ideas. Or that they are even friends. So, how is the Ayers story relevant to any issues now?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Obama screwed up so bad last night....He hasn't got the nerve to have another debate........CBS and Hillary wants one...maybe they should have in anyway and just have an empty chair for him.....

Posted by: lucygirl1 | April 17, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Obama's performance was fine.
He doesn't control the questions being asked. He answered once again about all the same issues. He scored some good points on Hillary -- especially about Bill's pardon's of former Weathermen -- but he didn't pile on and get churlish like Hillary. I was so annoyed with her indirect glances here and there with a little smirk on her face as she piled on the accusations against Obama. All this while she said 'yes, yes, yes' Obama can win in November. And we wonder why voters don't trust her? To her point, that she thinks she's the better candidate, then tell us Hillary what's great about you instead of harping on and on about what's wrong with Obama. If anyone lost the debate, and I think the polls will prove it out, it will be Hillary's postive rating. Her negatives will go up as a result of her negative attacks.

Posted by: john16 | April 17, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

According to Politico, William Ayers also hosted a political event for Obama in 1995, with his wife Bernadine Dohrn, another former member of the radical weathermen group. The specific purpose of the event was to help launch Obama's campaign for the Illinois State Senate.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

parker:

Whether Presidential candidates are chumming with terrorists is not a "legitimate" question?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 17, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

It's long past being news that Obama simply dismisses tough questions about his abilities and character as mere political piffle.

Obama should watch his stumbling performance in last night's debates a few more times before deciding he doesn't need more practice.

IF the Superdelegates are misguided enough to nominate him, he'll need to do a lot better than he did last night in a face-off against McCain.

Posted by: Lynn | April 17, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Part of this is sheer whining from Obama, but quite a bit of his disgust is well deserved. ABC, with Charlie and George at the helm, embarrasses themselves with last night's debate. No matter how juicy the controversies are, spending almost an hour on junk straight from reporters notebooks is seriously wrong. Grilling him on a Q right from Sean Hannnity's own lips (Bill Ayers)? Insane...

True, the Dem race is far beyond issues, but why not get an early start on framing the general campaign? Get some contrast between HRC/Obama and McCain. Anything rather than the garbage we saw yesterday.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Posted by: parker | April 17, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

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