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Clinton Backers Plan Rules and Bylaws Protest

By Garance Franke-Ruta
The cracks in the divided Democratic Party just got a little deeper.

A group of high-profile Hillary Clinton supporters, Democratic fundraisers and Florida Democrats is planning to hold a day-long rally Saturday outside the Washington hotel where the Democratic National Committee's Rules and Bylaws Committee Meeting will be considering the fate of votes cast in the Michigan and Florida primaries to call attention to what they say is the exclusion of women's voices from the democratic -- and Democratic -- process and the disenfranchisement of Michigan and Florida voters.

"Our purpose is not to divide the party or attack the DNC or Senator Obama," said the Hillary Rapid Responders, one of the rally planners, in an online announcement of it. "At the same time, Hillary's strong support cannot be dismissed in DNC efforts to unify the party."

The rally is perhaps a more unusual intra-party affair than such words suggest, pitting powerful Democratic women against a party for which they have done much.

The event is being co-organized by the Women Count PAC -- founded by five top Clinton supporters, including longtime Clinton friend and fundraiser Susie Tompkins Buell and Stacy Mason, a former editor of Roll Call - -and a coalition of disparate other groups working under the umbrella of the New York-based group Count Every Vote '08. It will draw together some of Clinton's most loyal backers and be emceed by Jehmu Greene, the former president of Rock the Vote who sat on the DNC committee that spent 2005 trying to reform the party's primary process.

Announced speakers so far include National Organization for Women President Kim Gandy and Florida Democratic congresswoman Corinne Brown. Organizers say that they expect individuals to come in from 26 different states for the rally, as well as some major celebrity speakers, and that they are receiving logistical assistance or other support from the pro-Clinton United Federation of Teachers and EMILY's List. The group Florida Demands Representation, organized by James Hannagan, will also be there.

The rally was the brainchild of a young Clinton fundraiser and New York attorney who is a member of Count Every Vote '08, according to the group's spokeswoman Karen Feldman, a political consultant from Hudson, N.Y., who specializes in female candidates. Count Every Vote '08 first came together in mid-March to lobby Democratic superdelegates on behalf of Clinton. "When we started we were a group of women primarily supporting Hillary Clinton," said Feldman of the initial team, which also included legendary N.Y. Clinton fundraisers Ricki Lieberman, Pamela Hayes, and Barbara Layton, as well as Allida Black, the project director and editor of The Eleanor Roosevelt papers at George Washington University who has known Clinton for years through human rights circles.

Black also joined together with Tompkins Buell to start Women Count PAC two weeks ago, along with Clinton fundraiser and Silicon Valley executive Amy Rao, former Roll Call editor Mason and corporate communications specialist Rosemary Camposano. The group raised more than $250,000 in four days, Camposano told The Trail, and used that money to buy ads in the New York Times, USA Today and four newspapers in Kentucky and Oregon.

In response to the ads, "we started getting e-mails and phone calls -- just thousands and thousands of women saying, 'How we can stand up?' 'How can we help?'" says Camposano. "We've been hearing from women who feel like women, as group, we are 51 percent of the country and we don't have a voice when getting heard in the media. ... We're hearing from the women who feel completely outraged about being ignored in this process and being marginalized."

The latest ad, which ran in the Times over the weekend, called on women readers to attend the May 31 rally.

By Post Editor  |  May 28, 2008; 12:50 PM ET
Categories:  A_Blog , B_Blog , Hillary Rodham Clinton , Primaries  
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Comments

My recollection is that HRC appeared at several fundraisers in Miami prior to the date of the Fla. primary. Although they were "private" fundraisers, why do they not fall within the "events to which democratic voters are invited" element included within the definition of prohibited "campaigning" under DNC Rule 20.C(1)(b)?. If so, no delegates are permitted to be awarded to HRC under the DNC Rules. Just asking. Here is a link to an invitation from the Florida Democratic Party to an event which HRC attended immediately before the Florida Primary asking for support/contributions to her campaign: http://www.miamidadedemocrats.com/events.asp?EventId=486&nDate=1%2F27%2

Posted by: curious | May 31, 2008 1:56 AM | Report abuse

Hillary's typical female supporters give women all over the world the worst name ever with their wrongly premised feminism. This is not feminism. This is self indulgence by certain women for one of them. Everyone in the world, except themselves, can see through them completely. I for one do not need this type of banding together in orde to make me feel relevant or empowered. The real power comes from within when one, whether female or male, understands oneself. Hillary is a wrong answer before she is a wrong female answer.

Posted by: thisworld | May 30, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

When Captain Kirk was a cadet, he was given a choice of alternatives, all of which led to failure. His choice: change the rules. Mr. Spock opined, "It was only logical!"

As Kirk and Spock demonstrate, changing the rules when all other alternatives lead to failure is a sign of enlighted leadership.

Trek on, Ms. Clinton! Live long and prosper. And from a different time and place, "May the force be with you!"

Posted by: Trekkie | May 30, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

The folks at iNewsTube.com are pointing out that Obama may have to give up all his FL delegates because of his violation of rule Rule 20 - Section C 1. b

http://inewstube.com/politics/may_31_dnc_rules_and_bylaws_meeting_preview_obama_may_be_forced_to_for feit_fl_delegates.html

Posted by: cspanwatcher52 | May 30, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

In spite of the fact that Obama supporters believe it is Hillary's job to enable their weak and inexperienced candidate, the opposite is likely to occur. Lanny Davis is a great lawyer and right-on with his proposed analogy seeking a solution for the two-state temporary disenfranchisement in contract law's ability to facilitate a cure for any breach in existence during the life of a contract. And he's also right to highlight the fact that the party standing in the way of a cure can never benefit from such impeding action.

The delegates from MI and FL were ALWAYS going to be seated in some fashion, up to and including in full. That was provided for in the rules from the inception - and it's the reason why most of the candidates left their names on the ballot in Michigan. Obama and Edwards were grandstanding when they took theirs off. (Plus Obama was about 20% down in the polls there at the time.) Furthermore, there is no reason why Obama should get more than a proportioned percentage of the uncommitted votes in Michigan since people voting for Edwards - about 14% nationally at the time - may now support Clinton over Obama as their subsequent choice.

A revote in either or both states was subsequently proposed - with funding offered - yet Obama nixed that idea, likely afraid he would lose again. Under contract law, he would never be allowed to benefit when preventing a solution to the original date breach which initiated this conundrum.

Additionally, while all the candidates agreed not to campaign in the two states - and nothing beyond that - Obama broke that agreement by running ads in Florida, thereby nullifying any delegates he would have received there, according to the rules.

The DNC should have come up with a response to states' scheduling conflicts that did not impact the election results, especially since the date changes were initiated by Republicans in Florida, and the people voting in each state had no control over any of it. Now, party "leaders" are left with the task of making amends for the chaos they've created. All delegates should be seated in both states based on the elections that took place, except for Obama's Florida delegates.

As to concerns about setting a precedent for future elections regarding date setting, that point is moot. Democratic party officials will be revamping the primary process going forward - possibly toward a more functional winner-take-all strategy, such as the GOP enjoys. Conceivably, voting would take place on a single day. Caucuses must be eliminated, as they are non-democratic and nonrepresentational. Either way, an inexperienced candidate with no record could never again come out of nowhere to take the nomination, whatever color he or she may be.

What remains to be seen is how the DNC will account to Hillary Clinton's campaign for the loss of momentum, new voters, and suppression of fundraising that is a direct result of the party leaders' blunder. All that must be quantified and compensated for the entire process not to appear to be a sham.




Posted by: doctorate | May 30, 2008 3:53 AM | Report abuse

2.3 million people voted in the FLA and Michigan primaries. There votes counted for something. Especialy in FLA, no one campaigned, all had web sites and all had been on many TV debates, and both Obama and Clinton were very well known names.

Another point but a bit off target. Clinton won Kentucky and West Vir by large margins. Mostly because Obama did not really campaign in either state. Why? He has-had over $40 million. Spend a little and he might have done better. Hillary has campaigned in every state up or down in the polls. Which is why she leads in so many swing states and leads McCain nationally. Thanks for listening-reading

Posted by: david stewart/iowa | May 29, 2008 8:47 PM | Report abuse

"many Michiganders could not vote for Obama and therefore either stayed home, or voted for uncommitted because they could not even write in their vote for Obama. Aren't they disenfranchised to the tune of hundreds of thousands?"

This is voter suppression and is the one thing that might hold up in court resulting in ALL of the votes being tossed out. No court would ever force the DNC to take the delegates but the entire votes in FL and MI could be thrown out. A candidate who is running but was asked by the DNC to take his name off the ballot (MI) and voters in two states who were told your vote isn't going to be counted (i.e. might as well just stay home) is voter suppression and it is against the law in the sense that the vote counts from those two states are tainted and skewed as a result.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 29, 2008 7:46 PM | Report abuse

> Sincerely
> jacksmith... Working Class :-)
> p.s. Cynthia Ruccia - I'm with ya baby. All the way. "Clinton Supporters Count Too."

Are you STILL copy-pasting the same damn post, pretending to be a Clinton supporter, when you were stumping in favor of McCain just a while back?

Posted by: Joe | May 29, 2008 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Lets be real here about Michigan and Florida. Everyone already knows that when the rules were set, Michigan and Florida were not supposed to count based on agreements by all candidates and the democratic party leadership. This was an agreement signed by the candidates - a contract among those that would be charged to uphold the highest contract of the land - the Constitution. If one of the candidates would so easily break the contract for their election, would they also break the contract that the country is based on?

Ok, setting that aside, the contention is that not counting the votes would disenfranchise the voters - sorry too late. When the Michigan Democrats voted to move up their primary, they knew they were potentially disenfranchising their voters. Remember, there was an uproar during the Michigan primary over that fact that many Michiganders could not vote for Obama and therefore either stayed home, or voted for uncommitted because they could not even write in their vote for Obama. Aren't they disenfranchised to the tune of hundreds of thousands?

Now as for Florida - yes the democrats in office did not have the votes to keep Florida from moving up its primary. So then, given this was the case I understand that all the party regulars informed the voters that their votes would not count. While I agree that the voters did nothing wrong and both Hillary and Barack were on the ballot, the fact that all voters were told their primary votes would not count, lets analyze who voted anyway. As I understand it, apparently there was a significant property tax issue on the ballot that drew a record numbers of voters to the polls. And because they were at the polls for the property tax, they voted in the primary. Now if the only people, or the majority of the people went to the polls for the property tax issue, who DIDN'T go to the polls? More than likely it was non-property owners. Speaking of disenfranchasement, who were these non-property tax owners and who would they have more than likely voted for if they had come to the polls. Well I would bet that they were African Americans down in Broward County, and other heavily democratic strongholds. The same voters who were disenfranchised in 2000 because their names resembled felons and other ridiculous reasons. So again, who is in the process of being disenfranchised. There is nothing fair about being disenfranchised, but given the rules, no outcome at this point would result in no disenfranchisement, so lets stop this as a one sided issue.

A split of half the votes as the penalty, with that half being split evenly between Obama and Clinton would be as fair as any other outcome.

Posted by: Larry S | May 29, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else see the similarity between this publicity seeking, planted protest and the self serving "protest" by the Bush administration in the infamous election SNAFU in Florida in 2000? That was a complete effort to manipulate, mislead, and stir up controversy rather than encourage the right thing. This protest? Seems like the same to me - unethical at best, completely manipulative at worst. Perhaps the only difference: we were unaware that the 2000 protest was a Bush administration plant, whereas this time we are completely aware that this is a tacitly sanctioned event.

Posted by: bunnywuns | May 29, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

You have the right to march and boycott, but the bottom line is Obama and his campaign has done a great job and we need to unite the party to beat John McCain. Florida and MI should be seated but you can't cheat and allow one person to get all the votes. ITS TIME FOR US ALL TO DO SOME SOUL SEARCHING. THE DEVIL IS ALIVE AND SPEAKING.

Posted by: DNC Supporter | May 29, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Most of these comments indicate how sexism in America is alive and well. If you think you are helping Obama by posting your sexist comments think again. You women haters are disgusting trolls.

Posted by: Elizabeth | May 29, 2008 2:32 PM

Elizabeth, get a grip, no genuine Obama supporter is sitting here posting anti-feminist remarks. The people posting these are the same people 'posing' as Hillary supporters who say Hillary or McCain but not Obama--closed minded people who can't stand racial or gender diversity but want to fan the flames of division. Rush Limbaugh ring a bell?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 29, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

"You women haters are disgusting trolls."
=====================
And the Obama haters are.....?

Posted by: Hold_That_Tiger | May 29, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

I didn't realize there are sooooooooooooo many sore losers. Didn't your mom's teach you to be good sports?

Posted by: Billeedee | May 29, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Most of these comments indicate how sexism in America is alive and well. If you think you are helping Obama by posting your sexist comments think again. You women haters are disgusting trolls.

Posted by: Elizabeth | May 29, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Wow, the more I read about this, the gladder I am that the Obama campaign is urging their supporters NOT to create some sort of counterprotest on Saturday. Nothing good can come of this Clinton-inspired street theater and certainly not party unity. (I'm guessing some Obama supporters will turn up anyway, but if you're reading this... Please don't!)

If you are an Obama supporter and you have the time, why not spend the day on something constructive like registering voters? There are Obama-organized Vote for Change drives all over the country, it's fun and rewarding to do, and November is not as far away as you may think.

Posted by: Fairfax Voter | May 29, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

"Instead of sitting on their hands and whining about unfair treatment, they need to (1) support & vote for the candidate who's always stood up for them and other so-called "underprivileged" groups"

Ummm...hate to break it to you, but Obama has a better womens' rights voting record than ANYONE in the Senate (Naral 100% rating). Just because Hillary has a vagina doesn't necessarily mean she's the best candidate for women...

Posted by: nic | May 29, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

"..to call attention to what they say is the exclusion of women's voices from the democratic -- and Democratic -- process and the disenfranchisement of Michigan and Florida voters."
=================
The exclusion of women's voices? Huh? How could anyone have missed the long, loud, Primal Scream of Clinton and her supporters in this election? Does it even matter that insisting that all the MI delegates be seated to Obama's exclusion is obscenely unfair? These women would also exclude the results from the caucuses, which my State participated in, because they "favor Obama," WTH?

WHAT is wrong with these women? WHY don't they understand that this year it is URGENT that we have party unity. Roe v Wade is at stake, as is Legislation that has favored women such as Title 9. I say that Hillary supporters need to pick their battles carefully, and realize that the issue is NOT whether the party is excluding "the woman candidate," but, rather it is Hillary Clinton as the Candidate that has been rejected by the majority...by a slim margin it is true, but facts are facts, and the Party needs to move on....

Posted by: Hold_That_Tiger | May 29, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

How can she in her right mind claim that Michigan should count in her favor, when Obama wasn't even on the ballot?!?! The women is becoming delusional.

Posted by: WozzyBear | May 29, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Doesn't seem like men are welcome, somehow, at this rally for universal suffrage generally and Hillary's glorification specifically.

But I'm glad Sen. Obama is considering some leading women for his running mate.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10672.html

Posted by: Jobless old white guy | May 29, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Someone has released a copy of Hillary Clinton's bedtime prayer. Here it is:

"Now I lay me down to sleep;
I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
Keep me safe through all the drama -
Just let someone shoot Obama."

Posted by: Biographer | May 29, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Since I live outside the matrix of Clinton spin, I can recognize that this rally is divisive and self-serving. How does protesting before a committee of the DNC about a position that only serves one candidate help unify the party?

It doesn't. When the Democrats lose the general election, Hillary will deserve part of the blame.

Posted by: Seneca | May 29, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

IS THIS SEN CLINTON'S KRYPTONITE ?

Do the caucus states count ?

No Clinton supporter will respond. Interesting. One person responded that they didnt understand the process, but were convinced it favors Obama, yet no facts.

Can any Clinton supporter respond ?

Posted by: MJ | May 29, 2008 8:07 AM | Report abuse

I hope they have some hot looking girls there who will burn their bras. Worth checking out!

Posted by: Lesbo for Hillary | May 29, 2008 7:32 AM | Report abuse

What a disgraceful spectacle. These women are sending a great message to the country. Despite having agreed to the rules of the primaries, voicing your support to Iowa & New Hampshire voters that Florida and Michigan should not count, it is now OK to cheat and lie. Everyone knows that the Clintons are the masters of mendacity- "I did not have sex with that woman, Bosnia sniper fire, etc...". Their behavior is completely in character. Yet for a bunch of white women, and a couple of token "Oreos," to take to the streets of behalf of this loathsome couple is a pathetic, totally hypocritical farce. Maybe you will be beaten by Poice and attacked by dogs- just like in Selma, AL. Such a noble cause...

Posted by: Anonymous | May 29, 2008 6:13 AM | Report abuse

Demonstrating because they are allowed to benefit from their wrong-doings?

Posted by: thisworld | May 29, 2008 4:28 AM | Report abuse

Blogha

I agree with you about not voting for Clinton. However voting for McCain; the upstairs candle never was that strong but in his older years, it is barely flickering.

There is no way Clinton wins, no way. It was hers to lose and she did it. This is theater not politics.

Posted by: Gator-ron | May 29, 2008 1:03 AM | Report abuse

"I don't like people who when losing will do anything even lie to get back on top."

She's even lied about her campaign fundraising. Remember right after PA she said she raised $10 million online in 24 hours. There were huge headlines about it? TOTAL LIE.

Those daily cash receipts are available to the public (after a few weeks or so delay) and she raised nothing of the kind--like $1.7 million. And the press hasn't called her on this. If you google it you can find the actual official daily cash receipts that the campaign has to file.

Shocking that someone could lie so often -- and it's even more than we realize b/c the press never called her on that so what else is out there that she wasn't called on the carpet for? And then she whines that the press is so hard on her? Not nearly hard enough, in my view.

Another example of this is how many people are unaware that she supported the sanctions of FL and MI, that her staffers far outnumbered Obama supporters on the committee that voted for them and that the Rebublicans ALSO sanctioned MI and FL for the same reason (moving up their primary).

Virtually all the press gives air/ink time to is her endless droning about 'disenfranchisement' and her battle to seat the delegations. Why not report the WHOLE story. Bizarre...

Posted by: Anonymous | May 29, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse

I will be contributing and supporting democrats if Obama is the nominee as he has earned it with great planning running an honest and respectful campaign in face of Clintons unspeakable dirty and negative campaign.
If some how Clinton clinches the nomination from him through her lies and dirty and shameful tactics. I will not only vote for republicans but also work tirelessly for them to make sure she does not win the white house.
If Clinton is so electable then why is she not able to win against a rocky senator with an obscure name and colored skin totally unknown to masses compared to Clinton as house hold name.
She did everything along with her husband to stop his momentum, they played the racist card the sexist card lied and even stooped so low to suggest somehow he will be assassinated.
She wrongfully argues he cannot win against McCain because the uneducated blue collar white vote will not support him, ( I truly believe once he starts campaigning against McCain in those states he will make his case) does she truly believes that if she steals the nomination from him the Afro Americans, college grads and young voters who came to Obama's camp because of the positivity of his message will vote for her? Can she win without their votes?
Some one needs to make her see how miserably she will loose come November, she is ready to sacrifice the interest of the party for her own gains will she do the same with the country? If she is going to run the country the way she has run her campaign then I feel a lot safer wit 4 more years of McCainBush presidency at least he is an honest man.
Blagha

Columbus Ohio

Posted by: blagha | May 29, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse

"But if people are offered hope of a new beginning then more of the same is unappealing."

Well said. Very eloquent. And Hope is a contagious emotion.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 29, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse


sad.. and silly.... why such poor losers? There was never any mandate that said just because HRC ran she would win. She was beaten and that is that. I have no objection to a woman president.. but to THAT woman.. I have some platform issues that are killers..

Posted by: Levi Cro | May 29, 2008 12:19 AM | Report abuse

Sadly here we are. And it is due to words that came out of H's mouth. I remember once upon a time when she said she was not just some little old woman standing by her man. Then she stood by her man and her marriage and family -- why for political capital. The sniper fire words were far too much. The RFK words hers to own. I don't like people who when losing will do anything even lie to get back on top. What turned me against her is that for every 1 good volunteer there are at least 3 bad ones (and I live in a Hillary state). I have way too much personal experience (not by choice) all the way down to bailing them out of jail. And it seems the first reflexive response is lie.

Posted by: sfp | May 29, 2008 12:18 AM | Report abuse

Focusing on Clinton's ploy planned for Saturday, we lose sight of the fact that this was Hillary's nomination to lose and she lost it. Obama had to overcome numerous advantages that Hillary had at the start and he did because he offered the people what they were looking for, a very American theme, a new beginning. The people need to recreate there government after it had strayed so far from the will of its people. Those who were disenfranchised, he brought to the polls.

Hillary Clinton offered a strong candidate who had a vision of the country that was similar to George Bush's. She offered a strong personality who is not in touch with the country's angst and had to convince the country to follow her rather than their own will. You can do that with people that are afraid. But if people are offered hope of a new beginning then more of the same is unappealing.

This is why I believe that there is zero possibility of Hillary winning at this point, because after all superdelegates are still people.

Posted by: Gator-ron | May 29, 2008 12:18 AM | Report abuse

As a woman, I also am embarassed by another woman who screams SEXISM at the drop of a hat but then plays coy and cutesy ('I think Rush has a crush on me') and also exhibits fake emotion (crying in NH) in order to engender sympathy.

This really has deeply offended me as a woman as well. When she is asked difficult questions she often laughs hysterically or plays that cute response like 'oww, you hurt my feelings' like when she was asked about her HIGH negative ratings. A man would NEVER, EVER get away with this. It turns my stomach.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 29, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

It is so sad that Hillary Clinton had to be the first female to run for President, because judging by her behavior she has turned back the women's movement about 50 years. All she had to do to get the nomination is get the most delegates and Barack Obama would have gone away. Now she wants to change the rules..... If she doesn't get that, or her supporters are blind to that... Who do think will vote for her after all of her tricks ?

Posted by: Ron | May 28, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: factfinder | May 28, 2008 11:33 PM

I see NO facts in your post--just general sweeping statements that = nothing specific Hillary has ever done for women OR the American people.

As a woman, I see a selfish woman who only seeks to promote and advance herself. If not, then why did she not shriek about FL and MI's 'disenfrachisement' instead of being fully on board when she thought she would easily win the nomination.

As a woman, I also am embarassed by another woman who screams SEXISM at the drop of a hat but then plays coy and cutesy ('I think Rush has a crush on me') and also exhibits fake emotion (crying in NH) in order to engender sympathy.

I also am offended that a woman claims 35 years of experience--many of which (if not all)--are from riding on her husband's coat tails. There are women with 35 years of experience that did not get it through their husband's coat tails.

I am also disgusted by a woman who claims to be a feminist but stays with a serial cheater (could this possibly be for said political advancement?)

I could go on and on but I am not the only one (or woman) who sees through this narcicisstic, sociopathic, race baiting, assassination dreaming piece of garbage and--as a result--she soon will be gone.

It will take years to repair the damage she has done to the Democratic party, women, and racial equality but at least--at long last--this self centered shrew will be off the national stage.
THANK GOD!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 11:50 PM | Report abuse

"Clinton has a long history of helping to strengthen women's rights"

Really, HOW EXACTLY? ALL OF THESE YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AND WHAT IS IT THAT SHE'S DONE, FOR WOMEN OR ANYONE, FOR THAT MATTER?

HILLARY CLINTON: WOMAN OF THE PEOPLE?

In her first 6 years in the US Senate (her first DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED POSITION as opposed to appointment or corporate job), Sen. Clinton introduced a grand total of 20 bills. Four of those bills were for naming various buildings after dead people, two of them were directly related to the attacks of 9/11/2001 and several others were things like congradulating sports teams.

In Barack Obama's FIRST year in the US Senate, he introduced 152 bills. MORE THAN 7 TIMES AS MANY "DEEDS" IN 1/6TH THE TIME!

Add to that, if you include the time Obama spent as a DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED Illinois State Senator, he has introduced MORE bills JUST on the topic of Ethics Reform than Sen. Clinton has introduced in her first term as Senate, which represents the TOTALITY of her ELECTED and DEMOCRATICALLY ACCOUNTABLE experience, as opposed to her time on the corporate board of Wal-Mart.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse

If women comprise at least 51% of the country and don't have a voice, then it's up to said women to stand up for themselves and get themselves a voice. Instead of sitting on their hands and whining about unfair treatment, they need to (1) support & vote for the candidate who's always stood up for them and other so-called "underprivileged" groups; (2) organize, make themselves heard, and do every single thing they can think of to support that candidate and themselves. Women's "equal rights" have never come easily or been handed to them on a silver platter. Even the right to vote was a victory hard-fought and won against men who said women should be kept in the kitchen, pregnant and barefoot. As MSNBC "reporters" prove, many men still subscribe to that.
A vote for Obama would preserve the status-quo that too many men want to make permanent. Obama's never done a thing to help or further women's rights. Clinton has a long history of helping to strengthen women's rights and she's a strong role model for women both in the U.S. and in other nations. This is largely why so many men are adamantly against her. However, if women stand up for themselves and Clinton, they'll win--they outnumber the men who want to "keep them in their place."

Posted by: factfinder | May 28, 2008 11:33 PM | Report abuse

Why hasn't the DNC penalized Iowa, N.H. and South Carolina for breaking the same rule for which Florida & Michigan have been disenfranchised? DNC members refuse to answer. However, common sense tells us that Obama has spent millions of dollars on the DNC and the delegates--millions that contributors like Oprah Winfrey have made possible for him to spend. If worse came to worse and Obama were nominated because of the DNC's unfair actions, he'll lose to McCain in the fall, largely because millions of outraged Democrats will then vote for McCain because we'd trust McCain more than Obama to lead America.

Posted by: Pat Knif | May 28, 2008 10:50 PM

If you vote Republican, you're voting for a party that ALSO SANCTIONED THEIR FL AND MI DELEGATIONS AND 'DISENFRANCHISED' THEM. BOTH THE RNC AND THE DNC SANCTIONED BOTH THE FL AND MI DELEGATIONS!

As to why the DNC AND RNC didn't punish NH and Iowa, they HAVE always vote early. South Carolina was given an exception to vote early to represent the south. If you are from FL and wanted FL to get that chance YOU SHOULD HAVE LOBBIED/ADVOCATED FOR THAT WITH THE DNC AND RNC.

The rest of this about Oprah, etc, is gibberish. Oprah has not donated any more than the $2,300 maximum as is limited BY LAW.

THIS IS A COUNTRY OF RULE AND LAWS. YOU CAN'T JUST BREAK THEM B/C IT SUITS YOUR INTEREST. TRY AND LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THE RULES OF THE PROCESS...

AND AS FAR AS YOUR CONSIDERED, WORSE HAS COME TO WORSE--OBAMA HAS ALREADY WON THE NOMNATION AND ALL OF FL AND MI COULD BE SEATED FOR HILLARY--100% OF ALL OF IT FOR HER--AND IT WOULDN'T CHANGE THE FACTS THAT OBAMA HAS WON THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION.

IF YOU WANT A RESULT, WORK FOR IT. DON'T COMPLAIN AFTERWARDS THAT IT WASN'T FAIR SIMPLY B/C IT WASN'T THE RESULT YOU WANTED. THIS PROCESS HAS BEEN FAIR. OBAMA HAS WON. SEATING ALL OF FL AND MI FOR HILLARY WOULDN'T CHANGE THAT BASIC FACT ALTHOUGH IT WILL NOT HAPPEN B/C IT IS FUNDAMENTALLY UNFAIR TO THE PROCESS AND THOSE THAT FOLLWED THE VERY CLEAR RULES. DEAL WITH IT. AND TRY TO LEARN SOMETHING WHILE YOUR AT IT.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 11:07 PM | Report abuse

I know several people who did not vote because they did not want to brave the cold Upper Peninsula winter day to vote in an election that would not count anyway. Any movement to seat our delegates disenfranchises these people who would have voted if they thought it would count.

Hillary is trying to steal the nomination and I will vote Republican if she is on the ballot anywhere. And by the way, I am a white 65 year old woman who is supposed to be in her corner--NOT!

Posted by: Barb | May 28, 2008 10:56 PM | Report abuse

For all those Hillary Clinton supporters who are protesting about the seating of the delegates from FL and MI----
below you will find a quote from the 2008 RULES that your candidate, Hillary Clinton agreed to:

" RULES for the 2008 Delegate Selection for the Democratic National Convention:

C. 1. a. Violation of timing: In the event the Delegate Selection Plan of a state party provides or permits a meeting, caucus, convention or primary which constitutes the first determining stage in the presidential nominating process to be held prior to or after the dates for the state as provided in Rule 11 of these rules, or in the event a state holds such a meeting, caucus, convention or primary prior to or after such dates, the number of pledged delegates elected in each category allocated to the state pursuant to the Call for the National Convention shall be reduced by fifty (50%) percent, and the number of alternates shall also be reduced by fifty (50%) percent.

In addition, none of the members of the Democratic National Committee and no other unpledged delegate allocated pursuant to Rule 8.A. from that state shall be permitted to vote as members of the state's delegation. In determining the actual number of delegates or alternates by which the state's delegation is to be reduced, any fraction below .5 shall be rounded down to the nearest whole number, and any fraction of .5 or greater shall be rounded up to the next nearest whole number. "

Your candidate, Hillary Clinton, also agreed to the harsher rules established by the DNC, which was to remove 100% of the delegates, as punishment for a violation of timing in changing the date for the primary.

The DNC and the RBC do not OWE Clinton anything. I feel bad for the states that had their primary dates changed on them, but THAT is an issue YOU NEED to take up with YOUR STATE leaders.

Obama and Clinton did not force that decision on your state. Both candidates agreed to the rules. Obama took his name off the ballot because that is what the DNC told him to do. The other candidates did also, EXCEPT Clinton, even though she said she would take her name off the ballot (did she lie?)in MI.

Clinton has lost the nomination. Barack Obama is working hard to bring the Democratic party together in order to win against McCain in November.

If we do not unite as a Party, there will be 4 or maybe even 8 more years of Republican RULE in this country - and we cannot afford that. Please, I ask you, for the sake of this country, for the good of our country, please put your differences aside and support Barack Obama so the Dems can take back the WH and we can try to rebuild our country.

Posted by: Kathy | May 28, 2008 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Why hasn't the DNC penalized Iowa, N.H. and South Carolina for breaking the same rule for which Florida & Michigan have been disenfranchised? DNC members refuse to answer. However, common sense tells us that Obama has spent millions of dollars on the DNC and the delegates--millions that contributors like Oprah Winfrey have made possible for him to spend. If worse came to worse and Obama were nominated because of the DNC's unfair actions, he'll lose to McCain in the fall, largely because millions of outraged Democrats will then vote for McCain because we'd trust McCain more than Obama to lead America.

Posted by: Pat Knif | May 28, 2008 10:50 PM | Report abuse

What a farce. What about those voters, especially MINORITY WOMEN, who did NOT vote in Florida or Michigan, because they knew that UNDER THE RULES that these states violated procedures. How are their rights being treated by Clinton here? There would be many more Obama votes and delegates in these two states if they had followed the primary schedule. To count them as fair now is absurd.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 10:40 PM | Report abuse

To anyone who thinks the same way this poster does:

"Hillary was forced to agree to disenfranchise Michigan and Florida, ........"

First - Hillary Clinton FORCED????? Certainly you are kidding, right? We have good evidence to prove that no one forces Hillary Clinton.

Second - Clinton absolutely was not forced. She WILLINGLY agreed to the rules and the "punishment". She signed the pledge, agreed to the rules, and said (in public, many times) that the votes would NOT COUNT.

It is only because she has lost the nomination that she now wants to go back and change the rules, just like she has done all throughout this campaign.

She knew what she was doing; no one forced her. Do your research on what happened back then. So many Clinton supporters are so easily deceived, by the masters of deception, the Clintons!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 10:10 PM | Report abuse

I would like to point out to the many people reading these comments that not all anti-Hillary comments are made by Obama supporters. There are many Republicans who love to stir the pot and get people all upset.

In fact, if you watch the media coverage of the RBC meeting on Saturday, do not assume that just because you see "Obama" signs in protest, or even people wearing Obama gear, that they are TRUE Obama supporters. It is well known on the internet that there are serious efforts out there to make it look like Obama supporters are there to protest against the Hillary supporters. Republicans plan to show up, trying to make it look like Obama supporters have shown up in protest.

Obama supporters are leaving all the protesting to the Clintonistas. They are, after all, the ones complaining because their candidate has lost the nomination.

Posted by: Kasha | May 28, 2008 10:02 PM | Report abuse

A caveat to Obama supporters planning on attending the Clinton rally: DON'T DO IT! Obama detractors would like nothing more than to see angry faces on television. In fact, Clinton is banking on this. If you must show up, please be on your best behavior. Please, let's win this thing the right way. We are not Republicans!

Obama 08!

Posted by: Caveat | May 28, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Hillary and her surrogates have thrown Dmocratic Party to the dogs! GO GO Mcain! she has cleared every obstacle on your way! today you even borrowed her lines! Probably you both consult Karl Rove! Way to go SIR MCAIN!!!

Posted by: Pedeen | May 28, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

The article states:
"to call attention to what they say is the exclusion of women's voices from the democratic -- and Democratic -- process...."

I am a 53 year old woman. Should I also add that I am white and middle class? I am very proud to say that these organizations and this planned protest rally do NOT represent me.

I would like to also add that I am sick of hearing that women have been disenfranchized and that we have been excluded from the voting process. Millions of women have voted, all across the country.

I wish that these women who claim to be standing up for all other women would stop trying to lump us all together. They are so very wrong in trying to claim that they speak for all women; I speak for myself and I do not support a march on Washington DC to protest in front of the DNC and the RBC.

What a spectacle they will make of themselves.

Posted by: Kathy | May 28, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

She smart and has good judgement
She voted for the war!!
She has McCain and Rove support.

Posted by: McCainite | May 28, 2008 9:26 PM | Report abuse

poet1b: How was Hillary "forced" when 13 of the 30 on the DNC committee who decided on this are Hillary supporters? I'm not sure I understand your reasoning here. Please, let's assign blame where it is due.

"Disenfranchisement" is a strong word to cast around on others when it is the state legislatures of MI and FL that knowingly caused this. If we are going to fairly apply the "d" word, then let's also apply it to the others, at least to some degree, who stayed home because they were told their votes would not count (even HRC said this late last year). Speaking of fair representation - what about walking into a booth and finding only one name and "other" to vote for? You should only see that when you vote for your precinct captain or Castro.

I think it's great Hillary continue to run through June 3 and I think the DNC should come up with as fair a ruling as possible that balances the rights of ALL the voters of MI and FL given the messed up voting process they encountered caused by the poor decisions of their state legislators.

Posted by: thinkresults | May 28, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

"Hillary was forced to agree to disenfranchise Michigan and Florida, both big states that fit her demographic. The fix was in when Florida and Michigan were disenfranchised."

RIGHT. HERE'S HOW THE CONSPIRACY WENT DOWN:

1) 'THE CONSPIRACY' FORCED BOTH REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC STATE LEADERS IN FL AND MI TO MOVE UP THEIR PRIMARY AGAINST THE RULES OF BOTH PARTIES KNOWING THAT THESE TWO DIVERSE STATES 'FIT HILLARY'S DEMOGRAPHIC'

2) THEN, 'THE CONSPIRACY' FORCED A DNC COMMITTEE STACKED WITH HILLARY STAFFERS TO VOTE FOR SANCTIONS WITH ONLY AN OBAMA SUPPORTER VOTING AGAINST SANCTIONS. (AN OBAMA SUPPORTER NOT IN THE CONSIRACY? AND YET ALL OF THE CLINTON STAFFERS ARE? I GUESS CONSPIRACIES ARE TRICKY.)

3)THE CONSPIRACY FORCED THIS STRONG FEMINIST WOMAN--HILLARY CLINTON--TO SIGN OFF ON SANCTIONS.

4)A CONSPIRATOR JUMPED DOWN HILLARY'S THROAT AND FORCED HER TO SAY THESE WORDS "MI DOESN'T COUNT. THE VOTES THERE DON'T MATTER"

5) ALL OF THE SUDDEN WHEN HILLARY IS LOSING SHE DISCOVERS THIS HORRIBLE CONSPIRACY AND STARTS SHRIEKING ABOUT DISENFRANCHISEMENT AND BILL STARTS RED FACED CONSPIRACY RANTS. HOW CONVENIENT, THEY DISOVERED IT JUST IN TIME....TO LOSE ANYWAY.

WELL AT LEAST THE CONSPIRACY TRAIL IS SO OBVIOUS AND SO CLEAR CUT THAT NO ONE WILL MISTAKE IT FOR....A COMPLETE JOKE!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 9:20 PM | Report abuse

Senator Clinton has become an embarrassment to democracy.

Posted by: Jules | May 28, 2008 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Don't count Florida and Michigan, then get used to saying President McCain. Obama is the candidate forced upon us by the media and the DNC political machine, and the obvious one sided coverage has me to the point of turning my back on the DNC for good.
Posted by: poet1b | May 28, 2008 8:53 PM

Right you do that. Vote for the REPUBLICANS--WHO ALSO 'DISENFRANCHISED' FL AND MI.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 9:06 PM | Report abuse

Hillary was forced to agree to disenfranchise Michigan and Florida, both big states that fit her demographic. The fix was in when Florida and Michigan were disenfranchised.

Don't count Florida and Michigan, then get used to saying President McCain. Obama is the candidate forced upon us by the media and the DNC political machine, and the obvious one sided coverage has me to the point of turning my back on the DNC for good.

Posted by: poet1b | May 28, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse


Really would your believe if I say----
"Our purpose is not to divide the party or attack the DNC or Senator Obama," said the Hillary Rapid Responders (yes ---really).
Please go out there and help the Clinton person win!!
She has McCain and Rove support.

Posted by: McCainite | May 28, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Please, Clinton supporters, I appreciate your passion, but you are hurting the Democratic Party (and the same should be said of Democratic party supporters who are harsh Clinton critics: Hillary is a brilliant person, and would make a great President).

That being said, the only way that Clinton could possibly be considered ahead in the popular vote is if Clinton gets her MI total, and Obama's MI total is zero. For reasons unrelated to Obama's absence from the ballot, a Federal judge agreed with the ACLU that MI's primary law was unconstitutional. It seems a bit disingenuous for her to include 328K to zero in her calculation. If the shoe were on the other foot, and if Obama were touting that calculation, I could not support him, because it's patently unfair.

By all other tallys Obama is ahead in the popular vote: current total from rule-abiding states (with or without estimates from the caucus states IA, NV, ME, WA), total with FL included (with or without caucus estimates), as well as any of these totals with MI's uncommitteds going to Obama.

As Nancy Pelosi said, this is a process where delegate numbers are the deciding factor. Say that Clinton were to receive all of her FL and MI delegates and Obama got zero MI delegates, and that PR, SD and MT polls are accurate. Then, even if FL and MI delegations are seated at 100%, she can't clinch the pledged lead in the convention even if she gets 100% of MI's uncommitted delegation (she'd need part of Edward's delegation *and* 100% of MI uncommitteds).

After the primaries are over, Clinton will probably need ~200 more delegates for the nomination under current rules. This would change by only about 10% if the FL and MI delegations are seated at 100%, even with Clinton's 178 delegates from these two states.

As to Obama's electability, his polled favorable rating is consistently higher than Clinton's.

Posted by: pat | May 28, 2008 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Please Please Please
Give it the little Blonde Clinton.
McCain want to run against her.
Who give a darn with the delegate count!
The Clinton person is support to win.
It's her destiny

Posted by: McCainite | May 28, 2008 8:40 PM | Report abuse

KEEP IT UP. KEEP UP THE SHRIEKING AND THE HYSTERIA.

I LIVE IN NYC AND SHE IS GOING TO LOSE HER SENATE SEAT OVER THIS INSANE FACT TWISTING SO, PLEASE, KEEP IT UP!

I live in NYC too and everyone is talking about how she will lose her Senate seat b/c of this freakish and desperate downward spiral. We are embarassed to have a race baiting, assassination dreaming weirdo that is calling the rules that she agreed to disenfranchisement.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 8:30 PM | Report abuse

the FACT that 90+% of BLACKS have voted for Obama is PROVABLE of my contention that Obama interjected this issue contrary to Media reports that are supporting him..
Posted by: lylepink | May 28, 2008 8:16 PM

Lyle,

1) Please learn to speak English. "Provable of my contention" is gibberish as is the rest of this post. I actually have NO idea what you are trying to say.

2) I'm waiting for your imput on the polls from five months ago that said Hillary would win the Democratic nomination by a landslide. Since this happened--UMMM, NOT--I guess we can agree that POLLS FIVE MONTHS AWAY FROM AN ELECTION ARE MEANINGLESS.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 8:21 PM | Report abuse

"award her the delegates she EARNED fair and square."

What about fairness to Obama who took his name off the ballot IN MI AS WAS REQUESTED BY THE DNC?

WHERE'S YOUR OUTRAGE ABOUT THE LACK OF FAIRNESS THERE?

WHY DOES FAIRNESS ONLY EQUATE WITH WHAT BENEFITS HILLARY?

AS THE NEW GOV. OF NY--ONE OF HER SUPPORTERS SAID--"THIS IS DESPERATE AND NO FAIR MINDED PERSON WOULD AGREE WITH IT"

KEEP IT UP. KEEP UP THE SHRIEKING AND THE HYSTERIA.

I LIVE IN NYC AND SHE IS GOING TO LOSE HER SENATE SEAT OVER THIS INSANE FACT TWISTING SO, PLEASE, KEEP IT UP!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Carleton: I notice you stress that you are BLACK and the good things Bubba did for your RACE, then all of a sudden you use RACE as the major reason for supporting Obama. This goes against any reasonable argument you may have for supporting Obama, simply because he is considered BLACK. The Obama campaign has used RACE as an issue and the FACT that 90+% of BLACKS have voted for Obama is PROVABLE of my contention that Obama interjected this issue contrary to Media reports that are supporting him..

Posted by: lylepink | May 28, 2008 8:16 PM | Report abuse

"Therefore, for the love of our Democratic Party, please cease and desist your deplorable actions against Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and seat Michigan and Florida as the voices of the voters intended, and award her the delegates she EARNED fair and square."

CAN ANY CLINTON SUPPORTER EXPLAIN TO ME WHY HER STAFFERS STACKED THE COMMITTEE THAT VOTED FOR THE SANCTIONS, SHE SIGNED OFF ON THEM, SAID "MI DOESN'T COUNT" BUT NOW, IT'S DISENFRANCHISEMENT.

PLEASE, WOULD ONE CLINTON SUPPORTER EXPLAIN TO ME WHY SHE DID NOT STAND UP TO THIS SO CALLED 'DISENFRANCHISEMENT' AT THE TIME?

COULD IT BE B/C SHE WANTS TO CHANGE THE RULES SHE AGREED TO B/C SHE IS LOSING?

WHAT IS FAIR AND SQUARE ABOUT THAT?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 8:12 PM | Report abuse

PLEASE EXPLAIN...B/C IT SEEMS THE ONLY TREND W/REGARD TO CLINTON AND POLLS IS THAT THE MORE THE NATION SEES OF HER, THE Lower HER ACTUAL VOTE TOTAL TURNS OUT TO BE.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

"The argument Hillary and her supporters [like me , [lylepink] are making is valid for the following reasons. First and foremost is the states that are vital for the Dems to win the GE. Ohio, Pa., Fla., Ky., and WV. Each of these show Hillary winning and Obama losing according to most Polling data"

AND THIS IS A VERY CONVINCING ARGUMENT B/C POLLS FIVE MONTHS OUT FROM AN ELECTION ARE ALWAYS ACCURATE, RIGHT?

LIKE POLLS FIVE MONTHS AGO THAT SAID CLINTON WOULD WIN THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION BY A LANDSLIDE?

PLEASE EXPLAIN...B/C IT SEEMS THE ONLY TREND W/REGARD TO CLINTON AND POLLS IS THAT THE MORE THE NATION SEES OF HER, THE MORE HER ACTUAL VOTE TOTAL TURNS OUT TO BE.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

For unknown reasons, the reporter failed to provide the name of the actual hotel in question. For anyone planning to demonstrate for either side, here's the relevant info:

Marriott-Wardman Park Hotel, 2660 Woodley Rd, NW in Washington D.C., from 7 a.m. to 4 p.m.

Hopefully there will be more than a few Obama supporters on hand to balance out these anti-Democratic fanatics.

Posted by: whatmeregister | May 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Report abuse

The argument Hillary and her supporters [like me , [lylepink] are making is valid for the following reasons. First and foremost is the states that are vital for the Dems to win the GE. Ohio, Pa., Fla., Ky., and WV. Each of these show Hillary winning and Obama losing according to most Polling data available for the last couple of months or more. WV, my state, has a strong history of voting for the winner in the GE. I think it goes back to 1916 when no Dem has won without WV voting for them in the GE. The Electoral College Map shows Hillary winning more than 300 [I have 309 without Ky. and WV for Hillary] and I cannot find where Obama can break 200. These are numbers I have found consistent/constant since June of last year. "Figures don't LIE, but LIARS Figure" Remember to "Listen for what they don't say." and I strongly think/believe Hillary can win the GE based on my research over the past 18 [eighteen months] and Obama is almost certain to lose.

Posted by: lylepink | May 28, 2008 7:57 PM | Report abuse

This is not ac complicated as many of us would like to think. I am a 45 year-old African American who will attempt to say this from an objective position: Hillary Clinton came into this race with one of the greatest assests and thus advantages of any candidate in the history of politics - an extremely popular former president as her greatest supporter, she had nearly the entire political delegation from many of the states on her side based upon that advantage, she had the most popular name and brand on her side... she was and continues to be very popular - because she does offer something very special. I have always been a Clinton supporter. I believe that Bill clinton has done outstanding things for this country. I tell people all the time, even with the girl chasing, he has done wonderful things for theis country that can never be erased. I actually believe that Hillary Clinton is the better politician (over Obama)This is based upon my affection for her and my admiration for her. Having said that, this is simple... even with all of the advantages... the majority of people and caucus states have pick someone that represents something else. This does not mean that they are rejecting her. It just means that they looked at what Mr. Obama had to offer and picked that. Mrs. Clinton's has chosen not to accept defeat. She has instead chosen to take a large portion of the party along on a ride that will lead them to nowhere. It reminds me of a loss in the NCAA Championship game that I recall Georgetown vs Villanova. Everyone knew that Georgetown was a more talented team but Villanova's strategy was better. I was heartbroken and I had terrible thoughts about the Villanova program for at least a month. Then I realized that my feelings were based upon feeling that my team had somehow been cheated. the truth is that they just lost and it hurt, but it was not the other team's fault. I want everyone to remember that. Hillary does not HAVE to win. the truth is that this was really pretty much over months ago. I recall that even today people get angry when they hear this, but it is true. Remember that with every primary, even the primaries that she wins, there are that many fewer delegates remaining to be won. Hating the press for saying it does not change it, hating Obama supporters for feeling good about their choice's future does not change it. Losing does not make you a loser... the way you lose does. At the end of the contest you can continue to say that you are the better choice, or you can take that same energy and raise your (former) opponent's hand in victory and be a part saluting a great contest.

Posted by: Carleton | May 28, 2008 7:37 PM | Report abuse

CALL TO DEMOCRACY IN ACTION FROM INFORMED DEMOCRATS TO DNC

To: DNC Members
From: Informed Democrats
Re: Michigan and Florida Voters Candidate Intent and Voices Counted devoid of misogynistic, anti-woman, and/or sexist behavior
Date: Until Michigan and Florida are Seated

Dear Governor Dean and the Esteemed DNC Members,

As a lifelong Democrat, I continue to ask myself why you, the Democratic National Committee continue to conduct yourselves in the tradition of the Republican Party?

Throughout the history of the United States of America, we have been fortunate enough to have had many major political parties: Republican, Federalist, Democratic Republican, Whig, Free Soil Party, Know Nothings, Populist, Progressive, Bull Moose, Reform and of course, our beloved Democratic Party.

We are Americans; therefore, we are bright, intelligent, literate, passionate, honest, and hard-working and sometimes Bible thumping and Second Amendment gun-totters.

Therefore, for the love of our Democratic Party, please cease and desist your deplorable actions against Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and seat Michigan and Florida as the voices of the voters intended, and award her the delegates she EARNED fair and square.

Why embarrass the Democratic Party any further by awarding the nomination to the media created Manchurian Candidate Obama and wait for the Republicans and the 529 to unload to the world Obama's unelectable dirty laundry: Antoin Rezko, William Ayers, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Iraqi born Aiham Alsammarae, the former electricity minister convicted of corruption in Iraq and his deal with Obama and Rezko to build nuclear power plants in Iraq-a nation we are currently at war?

If you will not listen to reason, please accept this CALL TO DEMOCRACY IN ACTION as fair warning that the17 million plus Americans voting for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, if Michigan and Florida are not seated with Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton's full award allocation, will in fact:

Leave the Democratic Party en masse;

Work diligently against any Democratic candidate who willfully and purposefully bashed, maligned, or denigrated Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton for misogynistic, anti-woman, and/or sexist purposes (don't think we can't, we are a powerful coalition, and we can give our $2,300.00 personally to any candidate we like and agree);

Vote for Senator John McCain, USMC retired in November if Senator Barack Obama is the Democratic Party's nominee (trust and believe- we will never get behind Senator Barack Obama or mindlessly fall in line with the misogynistic, anti-woman, and/or sexist behavior called for to turn against our parties most electable candidate Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton; and lastly,

Watch with "I told you so" satisfaction and indignation for the next eight years as the Republicans retain the White House and the Republicans regain the House and the Senate.

We as Informed Democrats will take no more misogynistic, anti-woman, and/or sexist behavior from you, Governor Dean and your Esteemed DNC Members.

Due to your misogynistic, anti-woman, and/or sexist behavioral actions, we are forced to place the United States of America above the Democratic Party. Enough is enough.

Democratically Yours,


Informed Democrat

Posted by: Informed Democrat | May 28, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Fine, whatever, get it out of your system Hillary supporters. Have a fit, pout, cry, and then get over it.

Rather than a protest, this could be viewed as a "Celebration of A Candidacy", similar to a celebration of life, when someone passes away.

Get over it and let's move on, already.

Posted by: Susan | May 28, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

????....CAN ANY SUPPORTER OF SEN CLINTON RESPOND?

Does Senator Clinton count the caucus states as part of the "Popular Vote" ?

I voted in a caucus state and want to make sure my vote is counted.....????????

Well Dear, the answer is: You're out of luck -because NOBODY---ACTUALLY Counts--- the VOTES in any of the Caucus States.

IN fact, the Caucus States are not even Required to REPORT the Votes, and a lot of them don't.

I know that is the case. HOW they "Count" the Caucus State Popular Vote is what I don't know. Evidently, they IMPUTE some level of VOTES per Caucus STATE to each candidate based on some FORMULA related to the # of registered Voters in the state & the # of people who (supposedly) turned up at the caucus to vote.

THAT Computation DOES "Count" the REsults of that Formula in the "POPULAR VOTE TOTALS" attributed to Obama/Reported by The MEDIA/& compared with Clinton's Popular Vote Total--- by Clinton./& Obama.

I do know that PLEDGED DELEGATES "WON" by each Candidate bear NO great Proportional Relationship to the # Of VOTES they got - Even in the Primary States --- because precincts with a long & strong VOTING History of Going Democrat ... get EXTRA Delegates AWARDED; since that is a charactristic COMMON to A Lot of African-American PRECINCTS -OBAMA got a LOT of FREE Pledged DELEGATES that DO NOT CORRESPOND to VOTES/VOTERS.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Obama Supporters --- What do you have to say about THIS REAL Newspaper NEWS the TV MEDIA has NOT told you about:

Change Nobody can believe in

Obama's whole campaign is based on
ONE BIG LIE:
***CHANGE***
He didn't make.

OBAMA = NO Experience/ NO CHANGE

Obama claims 7 years experience in the Illinois legislature - Working Across the Aisles, Bringing people together to get good CHANGES passed -as exemplified by 26 good bills with his name on them.

A Chicago reporter says all 26 bills were passed in ONE Year and they were NOT Obama's.

http://wweek.com/editorial/3418/10516/

EXCERPTS:
But what's interesting, and almost never discussed, is that he built his entire legislative record in Illinois in a single year.

Republicans controlled the Illinois General Assembly for six years of Obama's seven-year tenure.

Then Emil Jones Jr. (became the Senate Majority leader), He became Obama's kingmaker. Jones appointed Obama sponsor of virtually every high-profile piece of legislation, angering many rank-and-file state legislators who had more seniority than Obama and had spent years championing the bills.

During his seventh year in the state Senate, Obama ... sponsored a whopping 26 bills including many he now cites in his presidential campaign when attacked as inexperienced.

Working Across the Aisles/
Making CHANGES = ZILCH

Taking Credit for Other People's Work/
INTEGRITY = ZERO

(Obama's book "Audacity ..." Shows:
Democrats had Majority Control of the Illinois Senate when those bills were passed. They were passed during his last year in the state Senate.)

QUOTE:
"After two terms during which I labored in the minority, Democrats had gained control of the state senate, and I had subsequently passed a slew of bills, from reforms of the Illinois death penalty system to an expansion of the state's health program for kids. I had continued to teach at the University of Chicago Law School, a job I enjoyed, and was frequently invited to speak around town."

Please Pass the Word to anyone you can. Since the TV "news" has become nothing but Lying PROPAGANDA its up to We the People to get the Real News out to the public.

Posted by: elme | May 28, 2008 7:06 PM | Report abuse

CAN ANY SUPPORTER OF SEN CLINTON RESPOND ?

Does Senator Clinton count the caucus states as part of the "Popular Vote" ?

I voted in a caucus state and want to make sure my vote is counted.

Posted by: MJ | May 28, 2008 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Mich and Fl--DO NOT COUNT--. These states and the candidates knew this going in. It's just like the Clintons to really believe that the rules do not apply to them. We saw this in the White House and numerous times during the campaign. To even think about changing the rules IN ANY WAY NOW, would be dishonest. That would not matter to the Clintons but it does to me. I'm getting very tired of wishy-washy politics. It may be time to get rid of the two-party system and go to popular vote and run-offs.

Posted by: BudS | May 28, 2008 6:50 PM | Report abuse

Ok, we need to get a hold of what are facts and what are mute points about who did what. Lets first examine the facts.

1. MI and FL moved their primary dates violating the rules and bylaws of the DNC

2. There is a penalty for this and if my sources are correct, it says that these states will only get half of their delegates seated.

3. The DNC announced that it would take away all of the delegates, which is in violation of their own rule.

State reps from MI and FL that changed the primary dates, should have stood up for their state and said that they would fight to get half of the delegates counted. Thus everone's vote counts, but the state itself does not count as much.

The solution to this mess is to indeed to seat half of the delegates from each state. I know that Obama took his name off the ballot and Clinton wants every vote to count but hey the rules are the rules. They were made to stop states from changing their primary dates that results in a perpetual game of leap frog.

Points about who campaigned where and violated whatever other rule need to be addressed on that rule. Right now we are talking about moving primary dates not penalties for campaining violations.

Hillary supporters are relying on faulty logic when they conclude that the voices of women are being ignored or marginalized. They are 51% of the country and unless all of them live in MI and FL, then I'm pretty convinced that their voices are being heard. It is absurd to say this. It is like saying that Hillary doesn't want to count caucassas and concluding it's because the voice of black people isn't being heard. (I know it doesn't make any sense...that's the point)

Everone needs to get a grip. If the DNC follows their own rules, half of the delegates from FL and MI will be seated and Hillary will not be able to take a majority of the delegates. Check mate

Posted by: Bugman | May 28, 2008 6:46 PM | Report abuse

"The fact that Iowa and South Carolina both broke the rules having their primaries early, yet their votes count in full, but Florida and Michigan's don't, that's just plain unfair"

THE DATES IOWA AND SOUTH CAROLINA VOTED WERE APPROVED BY THE DNC. FL AND MI WERE TOLD THEY COULD NOT MOVE UP THEIR PRIMARIES OR THEY BOTH WOULD BE PENALIZED. THE RNC AND DNC BOTH PENALIZED VOTERS IN BOTH MI AND FL FOR MOVING UP BOTH PRIMARIES IN BOTH PARTIES.

THERE HAVE TO BE RULES TO THE NOMINATING PROCESS. IF YOU WANTED FL TO BE ALLOWED TO VOTE EARLIER--RATHER THAN SC, FOR EXAMPLE (ONE SOUTHERN STATE WAS ALLOWED TO MOVE UP THEIR DATE AND THE DNC DID PICK SC)-- THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN INVOLVED WITH THE DNC AND ADVOCATED FOR FL TO HAVE THAT RIGHT OVER SC.

IF YOU WANTED YOUR VOTE NOT TO BE PENALIZED IN FL (REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT) YOU SHOULD HAVE WORKED WITH YOUR STATE PARTY OFFICIALS TO HAVE A PRIMARY WITHIN THE VERY CLEAR RULES LAID FORTH BY THE DNC AND RNC.

AS A CANDIDATE, IF CLINTON FELT FL AND MI WERE BEING DISENFRANCHISED SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD HER SUPPORTERS--WHO STACKED THE COMMITTEE--VOTE FOR IT. YOU CAN'T HAVE A PART IN DEVISING THE RULES, SIGN OFF ON THEM, SHOW YOU UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THEM "MI DOESN'T COUNT" AND THEN THEN TRY TO CHANGE THEM B/C YOU LOST.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 6:44 PM | Report abuse

AN OPEN QUESTION TO ALL - Does Senator Clinton count the caucus states as part of the "Popular Vote" ?

I voted in a caucus state and want to make sure my vote is counted

Posted by: MJ | May 28, 2008 6:13 PM

Clinton does not count Caucus vote in her claim to be leading in the popular vote. If she did, she wouldn't be leading so she is fine with DISENFRANCHISING these voters.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 6:30 PM | Report abuse

ROGER - I saw you wrote

Yet Hillary supporters have logically formed arguments like adults that address the article at hand. Says something about the candidates...

Can you answer my question ? does Sen Clinton count the caucus states are part of the popular vote ? My understanding is that she does not

Posted by: MJ | May 28, 2008 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Josephine,

You go right ahead with that protest against those silly 'rules'--I mean after all, those are rules that the committee stacked with Clinton staffers made (an Obama supporter was the one dissenter against penalizing FL and MI), Clinton signed off on and was in complete agreement with ("MI doesn't count") until she LOST.

I could give a rat's ass who you vote for if you don't have the critical thinking skills to realize that and that the obvious CHEATER is Hillary. Changing the rules you agreed to because you lost under them is unethical and immoral. And nothing compared to national advertising that HAPPENED to run in FL.

And Obama took his name off the ballot in MI along with the rest of the Democratic candidates who were asked to do so by the DNC--all except HILLARY WHO AGAIN CONSIDERED HERSELF ABOVE THE RULES! And great critical thinking that he did this b/c he was losing--that's why he took his name off EVERY ballot WHERE HE KNEW HE WOULD LOSE--LIKE in KY where he lost by a greater margin than polls ever predicted in MI, right?

These Clinton Zombie points are just one IQ point above retarded. I'm so glad in less than a week, it will be OVER!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

MJ - Answer is yes...but only if you voted for her

Posted by: Honcho | May 28, 2008 6:19 PM | Report abuse

AN OPEN QUESTION TO ALL - Does Senator Clinton count the caucus states as part of the "Popular Vote" ?

I voted in a caucus state and want to make sure my vote is counted

Posted by: MJ | May 28, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

"Hillary wants it all; however, the best she can legally hope for is that half of FL and MI delegates are seated or all delegates are seated with half a vote each. These numbers will be negligible in support of her continuing on. An exercise in futility!

If she gets everything she wants, that would send the signal that something is rotten in the DNC."

The thing is, FL and MI could be seated at full strength (which they won't--I agree) and Obama given no delegates for MI and he WOULD STILL TAKE AN EASY WALK THE REST OF THE WAY TO THE NOMINATION. It's all the more proof that she wants to take the Party down with her--SO SHE CAN RUN AGAIN 2012. Did anyone see that Amy Poehler skit. Dead on. Wonder if Hillary's still such an SNL fan now. The thing is, I live in NYC and she may be fighting to hold on to her Senate seat in 2012 with the tenor around here.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 6:10 PM | Report abuse

The DNC is going to assure that McCain wins in November - I will vote for Mccain because the DNC has pushed Hillary off the ticket. The DNC can have Obama and his separatist wife. They are more of a threat to national security than their terrorist friends, anyway.
Posted by: Frank | May 28, 2008 5:57 PM

You're not fooling anyone Frank. You're a racist, a republican or a republican racist. Whatever combo, GOOD RIDDANCE

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse

Hillary wants it all; however, the best she can legally hope for is that half of FL and MI delegates are seated or all delegates are seated with half a vote each. These numbers will be negligible in support of her continuing on. An exercise in futility!

If she gets everything she wants, that would send the signal that something is rotten in the DNC.

Hillary, the Queen of Spin and a Legend in Her Own Mind!

http://klintons.com

Posted by: Bob | May 28, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse

Frank - Good strategy...will setup Hillary for 2012. In fact, since she's so good at making up her own rules, why not go ahead and move up the 2012 primaries to now? Then she can claim that 2012 vote is the more accurate because it's the most recent. I don't think a little thing like the space/time continuium would slow her down a bit.

Posted by: Honcho | May 28, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

The DNC is going to assure that McCain wins in November - I will vote for Mccain because the DNC has pushed Hillary off the ticket. The DNC can have Obama and his separatist wife. They are more of a threat to national security than their terrorist friends, anyway.

Posted by: Frank | May 28, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

"Why is it that Obama supporters can only call Hillary stupid or unholy, or names like 3 year old children. Or other ones just try to change the subject saying, there are more important things to talk about. Yet Hillary supporters have logically formed arguments like adults that address the article at hand. Says something about the candidates...

Posted by: Roger | May 28, 2008 5:43 PM"

Interesting post...Roger you are, indeed, a typical Hillary supporter...and talented to boot. Not everyone has the ability to type so accurately with their head in the sand. Yet...could have been truly accurate with only changing two words - logically to illogically and adults to children.

Posted by: Honcho | May 28, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

This is deplorable on so many levels.

These are just bad people.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Why is it that Obama supporters can only call Hillary stupid or unholy, or names like 3 year old children. Or other ones just try to change the subject saying, there are more important things to talk about. Yet Hillary supporters have logically formed arguments like adults that address the article at hand. Says something about the candidates...

Posted by: Roger | May 28, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Obama cheats by campaigning in Florida with public television informercials after he signed a petition that he wouldn't. Obama took his name off of Michigan because he was losing there. Obama stands by while millions and millions of voters voices aren't counted. He doesn't stand up for these people and then expects them to back him in a general election. Fat chance! The people who tout upholding rules, well maybe we should still have the rules that African Americans and women should not vote! Rules that are undemocratic, unfair, promote cheating, should be thrown out, and apologized for. Iowa and South Carolina didn't follow the rules, but their votes are counted in full. Football has a fair set of rules and if someone cheats they are penalized. The DNC is just out of control. It will be their loss if they can't rectify the situation, because the Clinton voters will stage a silent protest in the General Election.

Posted by: Josephine | May 28, 2008 5:40 PM | Report abuse

If Hillary wins, there is no God in Heaven. Under the circumstances he wouldn't be able to controll himself and he would have to intercede and turn Hillary into a mouse.

Posted by: Nancy | May 28, 2008 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Perfectly stated SA. You are absolutly right.

Posted by: Cheryl | May 28, 2008 5:36 PM | Report abuse

@James OKelley: "If Hillary Clinton had ran under the Republican rules she would already be the nominee!"

Then maybe she should have run as a Republican. Her deplorable spin tactics would be certainly be more welcome on that side of the fence.

"Obama isn't a Muslim........ as far as I know." -HRC

"Hillary Clinton isn't an undercover Al Qaeda operative planning to overthrow the federal government......... as far as I know." -BigTuna

Posted by: Tim B, Dallas, TX | May 28, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

To me, this looks like in the fourth quarter of an American football game, with five seconds left on the game clock; one team is leading by 10 points and is five yards away from another touch-down on a second-down. The other team suddenly claims that Canadian football is a better game and insisting on moving to a 110-yard field and play with the three-down rule.

This is so unfair and so un-American. Any fair-minded person would dismiss this kind of unreasonable demand.

This is old and dirty politics; it is what the American voters despise. It is also one of the reasons why so many voters turn to Obama who looks like a shining star in comparison.

The only hope for the Democrats is for the uncommitted superdelegates to stand-up in force and put an end to this non-sense before the May 31 meeting.

Posted by: JSy | May 28, 2008 5:31 PM | Report abuse

If every vote must be counted..it's the American way....what is changing the rules after the game has started? Is the American way to cheat, steal, and lie? NO, it's the CLINTON way!

Posted by: vote08 | May 28, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

If every vote must be counted..it's the American way....what is changing the rules after the game has started? Is the American way to cheat, steal, and lie? NO, it's the CLINTON way!

Posted by: vote08 | May 28, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

NO....Obama DID NOT campaign in Florida. Some NATIONAL ads accidently got into Florida..blame the ad agency, not him. Where do you people come up with this false "Facts"? What a bunch of rubbish.

Posted by: Nancy | May 28, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Shame on you susy...you choose wrong. You should have known the votes in Florida were not supposed to count. Anybody else would have taken the sure thing and voted in NC. It wsn't a secret...it's been there for the knowing!!! Typical Hillary supporter. Of course it's not your own damned fault...of course it IS!

Posted by: Cheryl | May 28, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Hillary and all her supporteers are so "girlie" in the worse sense of the word.
She's making a mockery of our country and our democratic system. Wish we had something akin to Siberia to ship her out to. Why oh why can't the superdelegates send her a message that she can understand. One that says that no matter what extremes she tries to carry this to, they will never support her, or her WAYS!

Posted by: Nancy | May 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Marvel you are wrong. The only petition Obama, Hillary, and Edwards signed was not to campaign in Florida and Michigan. Obama was the only one who broke that petition by running public television ads in Florida.

Posted by: James | May 28, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

I could have voted in North Carolina or Florida. I chose to vote in Florida. I am outraged that my vote wasn't counted. The fact is more people voted in our primary than any previous primary. Obama ran ads on public television here against the rules. So the press that no one campaigned here is a lie. The truth is Obama campaigned in Florida and Hillary didn't, but she still won. And the only reason Obama took his name off Michigan was when he saw he was losing. I hope that I will be counted as a full citizen like the millions who voted that day.

Posted by: Susy | May 28, 2008 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Every legal vote cast must be counted, anything less is un-American. If Hillary Clinton had ran under the Republican rules she would already be the nominee!
She needs to do everything she can to seat the entire delegations from Florida and Michigan at the convention. This includes taking it to the floor at the convention.

This action would not weaken the Democrats, it would stengthen their party!
And the country!

I would vote for an Obama-Clinton or a Clinton-Obama ticket in the fall!!!

I am also a registered dyed in the wool southern Republican!

Posted by: James OKelly | May 28, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe the narrow minded and the stupidity on this page. Let's think about this -- all agreed that votes wouldn't count in Florida and Michigan if the primaries went early. Edwards and Obama remove their names from the ballots -- Clinton didn't (oaky first sign of deceit). Clinton wins both primaries uncontested ( WOWWW what a feat when you are running by yourself). Now that you are losing the race, you flop and demand the votes be seated.

To all those Pro-Clinton -- HRC is acting like my 8 y/o son when he is losing against someone. What an example to show our children that even though you agreed to something, it is okay to change the rules to suit your own success. And yes people do it all the time but they are not in the race to control the destiny of billions of people.
I myself do not want a leader who is not true to their word nor do they allow the process to run its course. I want someone who is true to themself and to put our country first and themselves second ( like what you see in the movies). Call me an idealist but wouldn't it be nice .....

Posted by: marvel in ky | May 28, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Clinton supporter a like sore losers on a playground crying because someone took 'their' ball.

It's becoming truly pathetic.

Posted by: PulSamsara | May 28, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Jerry and other Obamaphiles, your rabid sexist spin and outright lies about Hillary Clinton and her campaign are no doubt coming from your conscious or unconscious awareness that she is far better qualified to be president than Barack Obama ever will be, and hence, you're all overwrought as she's still a threat to you - even though BO's supporters and the media have already anointed him king.

Interesting that one of the criticisms of Bush in Scott McClellan's recent book is that he doesn't know the difference between campaigning and governing. That's been apparent for weeks on end in the Obama camp, if I take any of their uninformed slimey comments seriously.

Posted by: ichief | May 28, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

I'm amazed at how easy it is to fool the American people. Look at the shape this country is in. It's slowly going backwards into a third world status. I'm sure we have people in this country who are allot smarter than any of the 3 candidates running. Everyone seems to think that they're our saviours and they don't even talk about the real problems facing this country. I really feel sorry for our Grandchildren and their children. The infrastructure of America is going down the tubes and everyone is worrying about Iraq and Iran. Big business is profitering and in the mean time our Health, Pensions, Education, Roads, National Monuments Parks, Museums are being neglected or we're being charged to go into them and enjoy them like it was meant to be. The Military Industrial Complex and big business is ruining the USA. Wake up America.

Posted by: dtyolmn | May 28, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

I am a Florida voter, and a white woman over 50 to preface my statement. Many people in Florida did not vote because we
knew it would not count. If they give Hillary the delegates it will not be fair
to all the people who didn't vote or to the voters in other states who did play by the rules. I would be upset if I were all of you.
Do you know that when the rules committee meets this week, Hillary has 13 supporters
representing her and Obama only has 8? This is totally unfair. I am sick and tired
of everyone catering to her because she was
first lady. Obama has won this nomination fair and square and she just won't let it go. I don't understand why all these women
are rallying to her aid just because she
is a woman. She is not the most qualified person and this whole thing is insane. I don't see the African Americans holding rallies for Obama. Hillary is ruining the party and because of her and all these women we will have another four years of Bush.

Posted by: erica leino | May 28, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

The fact that millions of votes by US citizen's in Florida and Michigan are not counted in this primary election is anti-democratic. The fact that Iowa and South Carolina both broke the rules having their primaries early, yet their votes count in full, but Florida and Michigan's don't, that's just plain unfair. The fact that Obama broke the rules by running TV ads in Florida, and took his name off the ballot in Michigan because he saw he was losing there is cheating. The fact that the DNC lawyers are saying that the people who live in Michigan and Florida are half citizens is against the fundamental principle that we are all created equal. I guess those who live in Florida are not equal? The people on this blog who tout breaking rules, well maybe we should still have the rules that African Americans and women should not vote! Rules that are undemocratic, unfair, promote cheating, should be thrown out, and apologized for. As a Democrat who voted for Kerry and who wants to vote Democrat again, I pray that the rules committee will count these votes in full.

Posted by: Jonathan | May 28, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Thank you AD... Does anyone else find this incredibly sexist that it is suddenly about the "women's" vote rather than all voters in Florida and Michigan?

How about those of us that voted in Caucus states that Hillary has discounted in her skewed math? Every vote counts, huh???

Oh, by the way, I am a woman and dont think Hillary has been treated unfairly in any manner. Any sexism has come from her campaign!!!

Posted by: SA | May 28, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Hillary always thought that she could steal the nomination! Bill said so! "What happened to the Democratic Party?" Bill said. "We are entitled to be Presidents again" "I mean Hillary, hum, I will be Hillary's co-President" "We have to twist or change the Rules or the people on the Rules Committee!"

Posted by: CommonSensePlease | May 28, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Simplicity at its best; Florida and Michigan voters, if you are as passionate as you claim about the election system, VOTE OUT those BUM politicians Republicans and Democrats that did not represent you, did not go by the RULES set one year prior, instead they chose to Represent CHEATING and CHAOS.

It is that simple! Rules are Rules, without RULES or LAWS their is Anarchy and Chaos. OBEY THE RULES!!!!!!

Posted by: Jerry EZ, TEXAS | May 28, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

@[blank]: "... the only other alternative is for her to be put into stocks in Times Square and publically whipped with a 12 foot bull whip while wearing a pants suit."

I am 100% behind that if she is also forced to chant "I will not use sleazy Republican tactics against other Democrats ever again" until she's blue in the face.

Posted by: Tim B, Dallas, TX | May 28, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

*Hillary Clinton agreed to the punishment of the FL and MI delegations.*

She agreed to it. The fact that Ms. Clinton is a hypocrite and a loser doesn't excuse her from the rules.

Feminists always claim they want "Gender equality." Alright then, it's time for Hillary Clinton to TAKE IT LIKE A MAN and concede gracefully, like Mitt Romney did for the Republicans.

P.S. Wow, commenter "elme" is beyond pathetic. Posting multiple times, nothing intelligent to add. I'm happy to vote for any candidate not supported by her.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Have you ever seen a group of like-minded democrats take so much pleasure in flogging one of their own ? That is because we find Hillary that duplicitous and reprehensible; we learned our lesson from that degenerate Bill, it is better to loose with a principled candidate that to win and allow a sexual predator and his primary enabler back into the White House. All of you advocates of womens rights, where were you when Hillary was steamrolling the very women she had sworn to protect, the women that Bill used/raped and threw away.

Posted by: Doug | May 28, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

The only way for Hillary to redeem herself to us sane people after this venture into irrationality is to go on David Letterman's show after she concedes and read to us the Top Ten Reason's Hillary Lost the Nomination.

Is she doesn't do this then the only other alternative is for her to be put into stocks in Times Square and publically whipped with a 12 foot bull whip while wearing a pants suit. Maybe Bill will want to even help.

And at this point I am beginning to think the latter would be more enjoyable to watch.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

"Enough is enough! She is about to win the popular vote, does that not count for something in America?"

Clearly enough ISN'T enough..

Not to mention the fact that IT ISN'T TRUE! You go apesh*t about 'disenfranchising' FL and MI but you WON'T count Caucus voters? That's the only way she'll win the popular vote--if SHE DISENFRANCHISES CAUCUS VOTERS.

HYPOCRITICAL MUCH?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

why would feminists support MRS Clinton who has not had a role in the last 25 years that was not directly related to her husband or his influence as the president?

Posted by: james | May 28, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

"nor more than Barack Obama ask Michelle to tell people she is "Proud of her country for the first time in her adult life". HRC is not flawless, but can we stop lighting the flaming tourches every time her name come up??"

Can you stop making that comment about Michelle Obama? No? Then I won't stop criticizing Hillary and her lunatic supporters. Why does Hillary get to make mistakes and not be 'flawless' but no one else?

Also, learn grammar and how to spell. Thanks!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

What about the rights of the people in MI that didn't vote, because their candidate wasn't even on the ballot? How convenient to forget about them.

Posted by: borage | May 28, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Fascism defined: The tyranny of the minority over the majority.

Fascism incarnated: Hillary Clinton

Posted by: Doug | May 28, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

@Ryan Healey: "Enough is enough! She is about to win the popular vote, does that not count for something in America?"

Clearly enough ISN'T enough, or else you wouldn't be repeating outright lies perpetuated by her campaign. Or do you not consider the nearly 1 million caucus-goers second-class voters like she does with that math?

People flare up about her because she gives them something to flare up about.

Posted by: Tim B, Dallas, TX | May 28, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

hillary likens the florida issue to jim crow laws keeping blacks from voting?
then i wonder, since her staff approved the ban that caused this florida issue, and hillary herself released a statement saying that she agreed with the ban that caused this issue,
where does that put hillary in the jim crow heirarchy, using her analogy?

of course, elitism and arrogance would have told her that since she would have been crowned the winner on super tuesday anyway, she could simply bring florida back to the convention without hurting herself.

but, yet again, her arrogance put her into another big mess. so now, paraphrasing the words of malcolm x, she has to change the rules since because she isn't winning.

someone remind u.s. representitive corrine brown of that malcolm x' quote.

i don't like the fact that i could only run 80 yards toward a winning touchdown. so do i get to change the rules to fit my shortcomings so that i can win?


Posted by: KenFromCalifornia | May 28, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

in all likelyhood the superdelegates are going to give Hillary the nod in the end anyway.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Are you Hillary finatics all on crack or what? There has been a steady trickle of Super Delegate votes going towards Obama. Another one in Oregon today in fact. And guess what? A 65 year old woman none the less.

Its seems to be getting to the point as this winds down that a certain percentage of Hillary backers just want to throw logic and truth out of the window and lay down on the floor kicking and screaming while having a temper tantrum. Is this your first presidential run? Did you understand what happens?

Well you aren't going to get your way. Why didn't you ever think that there was a possibility she might lose??? Oh yes, the crack pipe.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Will someone please tell me exactly HOW women are discriminated against in our democracy? Where is this outrage coming from? A woman's vote counts just as much as a man's right? This is not a gender issue at all, plus women under 50 are polling for Obama, anyway. Hillary agreed at the outset of the Florida/Michigan ruling that their votes wouldnt count and she wouldnt campaign there. She wasnt "outraged" at their "disenfranchisement" when the ruling was first made public. If only she were winning in pledged delegates, she might actually be able to stand by her words for once.

Posted by: Austin | May 28, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

What about 'in it to win it' did you not understand? This is her best chance at the presidency. She will not win (probably won't run) in 2012 so she's pulling out all the stops and burning bridges now to get to the brass ring. She's put the superdelegates in quite a spot LOL! This is quite the drama. Remember the cliffhanger question from the movie 'The Truman Show': How will it end?

Posted by: A voter | May 28, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Hillary lost for many reasons:

1. no long-term plan
2. bad financial management
3. no credibility on Iraq
4. no credibility on NAFTA
5. racially tinged comments by her campaign
6. negative attacks and old style politics
7. ignoring mid west states
8. ignoring caucus states
9. not having a 50-state plan
10. no plan after super tuesday
11. her own fabrications (Bosnia sniper fire)

The rules were fair and square at the beginning of the contest. She agreed to them. And has lost.

It's over. Accept it.

Posted by: jerry | May 28, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

There's only one role model that Hillary is emulating: Jezebel. It's time for the eunuchs to throw her down.

Posted by: jehu | May 28, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Dear Rajah,

Clinton won more states???? By the way Puerto Rico does not vote in Nov.

Posted by: A'jay | May 28, 2008 4:31 PM | Report abuse

What do you Clinton people mean when you say that the DNC is "Ignoring womens votes". They were counted just like every other primary vote, 1 person, 1 vote. I think what you are really saying is that you didn't like the outcome therefor of course the primary didn't count and Obama is "stealing" the nomination. This is such a load of crap, Hillary's supporters are just like her: bitter, scorned, and looking for payback in a big way; what better way to achieve this than by projecting all of their collective anger through Hillary. I sure hope Obama doesn't pick her because hell would have to freeze over before I could ever vote for that liar for vice president.

Posted by: Doug | May 28, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Man this is really starting to get ugly with all of Hillarys supporters threating to vote for McCane then he will most likely win. Then if she is the canadiate and all the Obama supporters threating to vote for McCane or sit out then again he wins. What in the heck are you all thinking. I want Hillary to be the canidate but its not going to happen as it looks, I am not for her changing the rules but at least give her the 50% or 1/2 its still not going to help her win. But most of us women will be happy. As for me I am a republician who will vote for either of the above to keep another republician out of the office. I want to see if they can change this mess we are in. So I will vote for the one who comes out on top. I want be threating to help another republician get in office. That will get us nothing but harder times. Don't forget even if Hillary can pull this off she will need the millions of black voters who she dont have now.

Posted by: Hillary Supporter | May 28, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Unfortunately the primaries are probably irrelevant. wait for the convention people, in all likelyhood the superdelegates are going to give Hillary the nod in the end anyway.

Then talk about being disenfranchised

Posted by: unfortunately | May 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton DID NOT organize this protest nor more than Barack Obama ask Michelle to tell people she is "Proud of her country for the first time in her adult life". HRC is not flawless, but can we stop lighting the flaming tourches every time her name come up?? Enough is enough! She is about to win the popular vote, does that not count for something in America?

Posted by: Ryan Healey | May 28, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

What has "fair" got to do with it? This is POLITICS, pure and simple. Don't fault either side for doing whatever they can to win. Winning is all that counts.
The problem is, it's not just the nomination that's at stake. The winner of this battle must win the far tougher war in November. And it will be far, far more difficult and dirty.
I think Obama made and is making a serious tactical error. First, he actively worked against having Michigan and Florida do a revote. Now, he fights to prevent their delegates from being seated based on the original vote. You can explain the "fairness" of it any way you like, but those voters aren't buying it now and won't in November. Sure, Obama supporters in Fl amd MI are happy, but to win the state, they need to have Hillary supporters get on board. Losing an election is one thing. But losing this way is quite something else. What can he say to Hillary supporters in Michigan and Florida come November? "Hey, I know I dissed you yesterday, but I'm real sorry. You see it wasn't about you, you were just collateral damage. Let's make up and give me your vote."
Well, I'm not sure what Michigan will do, but I'm dead certain Obama can just write off Florida. He does have a slim possibility of winning there, though. There are three ways it might happen: 1) Pray for a miracle and God, who is in favor of Affirmative Action, gives him a break; 2) McCain gets sick, drops out and Ron Paul wins the nomination; and 3) if he chooses Huckelberry for his VP. Although, you might consider 2) and 3) the result of 1).

Posted by: stan | May 28, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Wait a minute, this is nothing about ignoring women votes. What a way to meander reality. If Hilary wants to fight fair and square as an equal candidate, then she needs to stop throwing in her feminism crap. Besides, she voted FOR FL and MI ban. Stop being fickle and play fair! People don't like her not because she's a woman, people don't like her because she attacks maliciously and unfairly.

Posted by: Icton | May 28, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

The problems they are having governing key groups is a likley to carry over if a Democrat Preident is elected. For that reason, I contend they cannot and will not be able to provide needed leadership the country demands and needs.


Ah crap! We are really screwed then. The Democrats were our only hope to clean up the mess the GOP left us.

What to do??????

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I mean is she serious or just really that maniacal ? I truly believe that Hillary and her supporters have lost all grip on reality. She keeps saying that she is the stronger canidate and polls better thean Obama. Is this supposed to somehow overlook the fact that she has LOST the primary, period. That is what primaries are for, to determine who the candidate will be; not have it based upon Hillary's "feelings" that she is the better candidate. This completely proves that Hillary is a fascist and the only voters that matter to her are the ones who agree with her.

Posted by: Doug | May 28, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Mr. B don't fear. You will always have the Pastor Hagee's, the Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker's and the Jimmy Swaggert's of the Religious Right to lock up the award.

All we ever get are a few fornicators.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Elme, you are not using your brain.

Please try again.

Republicans have nothing to do with the dates of Democrat primaries. In case you missed it, which you clearly did, several states had their republicans and democrats voting in their primaries on different days.

Posted by: WTF? | May 28, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

As a conservative, I've long feared that we had a distinct edge in the number of loonies who gravitated to our side of the political spectrum. It warms my heart to see the rantings of some of the left-leaning nutcakes who have posted comments below. ;-)

Posted by: Mr. B | May 28, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

I'm hoping Hillary will go ballistic after Saturday. I hope she burns up on reentry. Shadenfreud can be a good thing.

And I hope all of her mindless followers watch and mutter to themselves and ask "What is she doing? This really is getting bizarre!!!"

After all she is in reality somewhat irrlevant to Obama's campaign at this point. As Hunter S. Thompson said: "It hasn't gotten weird enough yet."

Posted by: A hookah smoking caterpillar | May 28, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Sadly this all seems to be rapidly turning into an unpleasant circus based on two distorted notions.

That women in general are not being counted - but then what about those many, many women who have become disillusioned by Sen. Clinton and/or who support Sen. Obama based on his merits alone.

Secondly, that rules are meant to be broken - then why have rules at the outset? Bending or breaking them for the sake of unhappy people will only lead to chaos.

Does the country want and/or need to be led by rule-breakers, people without integrity, people who think they are above it? Haven't we had enough of that? We certainly deserve better.

Hopefully the committee will have the backbone and moral strength to stick with what was set forth at the outset. To do otherwise would make the Democratic party appear to be weak, unprincipled and at the beck-and-call of one family.

Posted by: AD | May 28, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

What a mess the Democrats have made of the primaries. To resolve the issues, one or more key special interest group is going to get burned. If the super delegates side with Obama, the women are going to be up in arms. If they go for Hillary in the hope she has the better chance to win, blacks, college students and the elite are going to protest strongly and may not vote in the general election. The Democrats have a party of special interest groups. The problems they are having governing key groups is a likley to carry over if a Democrat Preident is elected. For that reason, I contend they cannot and will not be able to provide needed leadership the country demands and needs.

Posted by: Jeff in Orlando | May 28, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

We will look long and hard at these faces of sore losers.

Posted by: thisworld | May 28, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

-----So Hillary and her band of phonies, and their "supporters," don't believe the rules apply to her.----

A. It was the REPUBLICANS, in Complete Control of the FLORIDA Legislature, WHO Broke the Rules & Moved Florida's Primary UP.

Should Democrats just ACCEPT that Republican Dirty Trick & disenfranchise Florida's Democrat Voters? (WHY would the Democratic Party want to do such a STUPID thing?)

B. Obama's NOT EVEN ON THE BALLOT IN MICHIGAN? OK, SO WHAT? ...THAT'S ONLY because OBAMA Took His NAME OFF the Ballot. HIS "Mistake". HE got NO VOTES in MICHIGAN ... because he did not RUN in MIchigan.

C. BOTH agreed NOT TO CAMPAIGN IN FLORIDA & MICHIGAN. Hillary Clinton KEPT that Pledge. Obama Didn't. He ran TV ADS for Two Weeks before the Florida Primary. AFTER taking his NAME OFF the Ballot, OBAMA spent MONEY & Manpower getting: UNCOMMITTED on the BALLOT & ADVERTISING to Get Voters to VOTE "uncommitted".

D. You Want to ENFORCE the RULES; Ok, Fine ... OBAMA gets NO VOTES from Floriday because he BROKE THE RULES by CAMPAIGNING There. Obama gets NO VOTES from MICHIGAN because he did NOT RUN in MICHIGAN. The UNCOMMITTED Votes from Michigan GO EXACTLY WHERE THEY BELONG: TO: NOBOBY.

E. In collusion with THE REPUBLICAN PARTY that MOVED UP Florida & Michigan's Primaries ... Obama ... doesn't want Florida's VOTES or Michigan's VOTES to COUNT ... & Obama engaged in "dirty tricks" in Michigan to help assure himself Michigan's Votes wouldn't count ... BECAUSE ... Obama/The Republicans KNEW OBAMA would LOSE FLORIDA & MICHIGAN --- WOULD BE OUT OF THE RACE a long time ago ... IF ... the Florida & Michigan Primaries were Counted.

F. There IS NO Good REason Not to Count Florida & Michigan's VOTES. There is AMPLE CAUSE to VOTE OBAMA as the LOSER he is.

G. GEE, how stupid would you have to be IF you want a guy who has Played such Dirty Politics With the Help of the REPUBLICAN PARTY ... to be the Democrat Nominee? OBAMA LIES & CHEATS to "win" the Nomination --- How much LYING & CHEATING do YOU THINK he would do on YOU and all the rest of US ... IF he was President?

Posted by: elme | May 28, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

I used to be a big fan of Bill. To this day the best extemporaneous speaker I have ever heard. Till he got his tit in a wringer and then pardoned some crooks. See ya Bill. And he is getting a bit weird over Hillary these days.

I used to be a Hillary fan as she was obviously intelligent and articulate. Till she became a pandering hack politician. Don't need that either.

I will consider Chelsea if she decides to go into politics.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Isn't politics about breaking rules?

What politicians do is to look at rules and assess whether there is a problem. A simple stop sign can serve as an example. If enough people fail to stop and there is no good reason for them to come to a complete stop then a politician can recognize the multiple failures as an indicator of the need to install a yield-right-of-way sign in its place rather than as the reason to implement more stringent enforcement.

Most rules I know of get changed in this way by their being broken repeatedly followed by a complaint to a politician who can recognize this, suspend the penalties and proceed with effectively changing the rules or the law to accommodate the facts so the law can be obeyed by the majority of those subject to it.

End of story. Change the rules if they need to be changed and make the changes retroactive, if there is some overpowering and repeatable cause why they might be broken again or in the first place.

Posted by: David Samuels | May 28, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I do not want another president who has as motto "my way or the highway" and is willing to go over dead bodies.

Hillary seems even several degrees worse than Bush. AND I HAVE ENOUGH OF THESE INCREDIBLY EGOISTIC AND TRUTH TWISTING CLINTONS !!

Posted by: jeanne | May 28, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I don't know what's more pathetic: (1) Hillary's patently false claims of misogyny by the media, Obama, and anyone else who doesn't support her; or (2) the people who are buying into them.

Posted by: James | May 28, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

It's time to put a stop to this nonsense. At first her absurd lies and distortions were kind of funny, now they are just sad. HRC has lost; no matter what the outcome she will not get the nomination. She lost fairly and has been given far more courtesy than her dispicable behavior merits. SHe agreed to the rules until they proved inconvenient and now she thinks the can change them by inciting a gaggle of hardcore followers looking for a reason to be angry to protest on her behalf. If hse ca't have her way, she intends to bring down the party or at least damage Obama badly enough that he loses, clearing the way (she thinks) for a 2012 run. Well, I for one will do everything I can to work against her and any politician who supports her; you see I would sooner see this country continue to go to hell than have the likes of her sitting in the Oval Office. Someone that Machiavelian, that devoid of even the pretense of decency, represents a far greater threat to the republic than even an idiot like Bush. At least he and his crew are were too dim to do much irrevocable damage without being caught. Hillary would cut a deal with bin Laden himself if it would further her ends.

I just hope Obama has the good sense to make sure she and Bill are where he can see them at all times, less he end up like Vince Foster. At this point, I'm starting to think that the tinfoil hat wearers may have been on to something in that case...

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Of course Hillary's supporters are willing to split the party and letting Bill and Hillary stoke their fires by promoting the "inelectibility" of Obama, which only exists and their eyes and can not really be proven. Sentiments are getting harder and harder and the lines are drawn. It will get more and more difficult to unify the party. Why don't superdelegates not come out to follow the real will of the people as decided by the voting process. Changing rules afterwards is going to make even more of joke of the US politics in the eyes of the world. In Europe they are already calling "Comical Hillary" as being the real queen of spin.

Posted by: meagan | May 28, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

GREAT POST JACK, The Republicans ALMOST outsmarted us. We long time Democrats understand their plan, but we unravel this deceit one election at a time. Keep working. The Obama's are coming around to the sunlight. They are reading History. No Leftist has ever won, The republican play book has that act down pat.

DON'T BE DUPED AGAIN AMERICA !!!

IT'S ABOUT ELECTABILITY !!!

Large numbers of BUSH_McCain Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on with the backing and help of the medical and insurance industry. Under the direction of the George Bush, and Karl Rove vote fraud, and vote manipulation machine. Because they feel Barack Obama would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. And they want to stop Hillary Clinton from fixing the HUGE! American, and Global mess they have created. shocking!!! isn't it. Just gotta love those good old draft dodging, silver spoon Texas boys. Not! :-(

You see, the medical and insurance industry mostly support the republicans with the money they ripped off from you. And they don't want you to have quality, affordable universal health care. They want to be able to continue to rip you off, and kill you and your children by continuing to deny you life saving medical care that you have already paid for. So they can continue to make more immoral profits for them-selves off of you, and your children's suffering.

With Hillary Clinton you are almost 100% certain to get quality affordable universal health care for everyone very soon. And you are also certain to see major improvements in the economy for everyone.

The American people face even worse catastrophes ahead than the ones you are living through now. It will take all of the skills, and experience of Hillary Clinton to pull the American people out of this mess we are in. Fortunately fixing up, and cleaning up others incompetence, immoral degeneracy, and mess is what the Clinton's do very well.

Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama's. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!

Just look at Oregon for example. Obama won Oregon by about 70,000 votes. But approximately 79,000 Bush republicans switched party's back in January to vote for Obama in the democratic primary. They are not going to vote for, or support any Democrat in November. Are you DEMOCRATS going to put up with that. Are you that stupid, and weak. The Bush republicans think you are that stupid, and weak.

As much as 30% of Obama's primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses, and open primaries where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help. Except North Carolina where 35% of the population is African American, and approximately 90% of them block voted for him. African Americans are only approximately 17% of the general population.

Hillary Clinton has been OUT MANNED! and OUT SPENT! 4 and 5 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous, and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton. This is even more phenomenal when you consider she has been also fighting against the George Bush, Karl Rove vote fraud machine in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses. Hillary Clinton is STUNNING!.

If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. That is crystal clear now. Because all of the Republican vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. And the demographics, and experience are completely against him. All of this vote fraud and Bush republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is.

You will have another McGovern catastrophe where George McGovern lost 49 of 50 states. And was the reason the super-delegates were created to keep that from happening again. Don't let that happen to the party and America again super-delegates. You have the power to prevent it. The only important question now is who can best win in November. And the answer is HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON. That fact is also now crystal clear.

And YOUNG PEOPLE. DON'T BE DUPED! Think about it. You have the most to lose. As do African Americans. Support Hillary Clinton. She will do her best for all of you. And she will know how to best get it done on day one.

The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. Everyone needs to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton NOW! So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.

The democratic party, and the super-delegates have a decision to make. Are the democrats, and the democratic party going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee to fight for the American people. Or are the republicans going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee through vote fraud, and gaming the DEMOCRATIC party primaries, and caucuses.

Fortunately the Clinton's have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic, and heroic comebacks of Hillary Clinton's. Only the Clinton's are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen. Probably the best there has ever been. :-)

"This is not a game" (Hillary Clinton)

Sincerely

jacksmith... Working Class :-)

Posted by: Justin Daily | May 28, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm an old white guy who was excited by having an intelligent woman in the race. I wanted to vote for Hillary. But when Obama came along i saw a distinct difference. An intelligent candidate with charisma and good judgement. Which to me is as valuable if not more so then experience.

I don't understand why Hillary is so obsessed and getting downright irrational about her losing to Obama. I honestly don't see how gender or color has the least thing to do with either of these two candidates.

But I honestly don't think Hillary is presidential material based on her wackiness in her pursuit of a lost cause. Had she gracefully conceded she would retain my respect. But her judgement at this point is rather circumspect. I fear a real melt down here if she doesn't get it her way.

I really don't think its fair to to blame mysogeny on her lack of popularity. There will be better female candidates to carry the torch and I for one look forward to finding one I can vote for.

Posted by: Bob | May 28, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Ladies, Ladies ... this election is not about gender, or skin color.

Its about BIG MONEY; reaping Hundreds of $$$BILLIONS from building Obsolete 70 year old nuclear technology AND from 30-40 Yrs of Higher ELECTRICITY RATE.

...and...Keeping the SAME People who Ran Bush/Cheney IN CONTROL of our GOVERNMENT and our MONOPOLY POWER Electricity GRID.

....Instead of electing Clinton AND tranferring our ECONOMY to Clean, Renewable, DE-Centralized PEOPLE POWERED NOT-Monopoly-Controlled ENERGY.

Posted by: elme | May 28, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

So Hillary and her band of phonies, and their "supporters," don't believe the rules apply to her.

Why am I not shocked by this? Why does it seem appropriate for any Clinton to make that claim?

Wink wink nudge nudge. Cattle futures. Fellat tio.

Posted by: jeffp | May 28, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

If Hillary would now "receive" the nomination, the whole world would ask "why this whole voting process ? Next time just decide it in a back room, that would save time and money."
It would be a complete scandal if the democratic party leaders and superdelegates would now give the nomination to Hillary. Tantrums, whining,cheating and playing nasty should not be rewarded.

Posted by: margareth | May 28, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Wheeew, Magdalena, I do understand from "whence you come."
My GrandMother was a single parent do to WW11, My Mother worked for 25% less than men. My sister is a Captain in the service and Obama insulted all military women with his "women cannot shoot guns.. Annie Oakley gaff.
Do not let anybody tell you Obama is not chosen by Republicans becaise tjeu qiover when Hillary's name is mentioned. So sad that all the news voters will be negated by over 17 million voters.
. So stay home but do not vote for McCain.
Hillary is the BEST nominee. The World knows it. Do not allow all the chatter and piranhas to stop you. You are doing this for our country, USA is the Greatest grandest of all.

We expect our President to stand firm against every country. Hillary is the only person with intestional fortitude to hold the title of "Commander and Chief." This race is an example of strength against all odds and oddballs.
Keep working, keep your strength, remember Winston Churchill " NEVER GIVE UP "

Posted by: Supreme Lawyer | May 28, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Could you imagine if HRC was a black woman ad BO was a white man. Then she can play the sex card AND the race card.

WOW

Posted by: RT | May 28, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Obama's a loser. He's been a loder ever since the Rev. Wright videos came out.

Because... too many VOTERS see Obama as ... just as racist/ anti-whitey as his "spiritual mentor". The only thing propping him up - & giving him an APPEARANCE of "front runner" is The MEDIA.

NEXT QUESTION: WHY has The MEDIA ...NOT... covered any NEWS or Information, or pundits discussing Obama's OHTER prominent 20 Year "friendship" with Rezko...Obama's POLITICAL Godfather; Obama's NOT running for Rev., he's running for President ... but ... somehow ... The MEDIA is NOT Interested in Obama's Illinois POLITICS.

With a trial going on; with multi-dozens of Illinois politicans having pled guilty or likely to be indicted; with all of them Obama's political bedfellows; with Rezko's two friends of more than 20 years, Auichi & Alsammarae having been convicted in an Iraqi Court, and a French Court of MASSIVE LOOTING on an International Scale - with Rezko et al having plenty of ties to Bush/Cheney ... and the fact that Obama VOTED YES to The Cheney Energy BILL --- one would THINK there was Plenty of NEWS for the TV MEDIA to cover ... re: Obama's POLITICAL History/Ties/Inexplicable VOTES.

The REASON The TV MEDIA does NOT cover all the above Is: The Cheney Energy Bill ENABLED GE & Westinghouse to BUILD nuclear power plants AGAIN (after 30 yrs)

\Their Plans to build 29 of them are well advanced with licensing hearings already scheduled for the first few.

GE owns NBC & MSNBC. Westinghouse owns CBS. THAT is the REASON for The TV MEDIA's Pro-Obama/Anti-clinton PROPAGANDA Campaign. They want OBAMA v. McCain so there will be NO CHANCE of Clinton HALTING their plans to build nukes.

Clinton Voted NO on THE Cheney Energy Bill and If she is ELECTED PRESIDENT ... GE, Westinghouse, the nuke industry will have NO CHANCE of Pulling Off CHENEY's NEXT BIG ENERGY RIPOFF. (Ge is the 2nd largest corporation on the planet.)

Posted by: elme | May 28, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Magdalena. First, your disrespect for your own gender makes me sick to my stomach. Second, it's your fake, figure head candidate and her husband's allies on the DNC rules committee that voted to disenfranchise the FL and MI voters in the first place. Explain that one - and try to do it in a way that doesn't betray your own self hatred. I read today that her top campaign aides stated "....for us, it's Hillary first, democratic party second." Can you explain where you, as a voter and her supporter fit in that equation?

Posted by: Rob | May 28, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

she is completely divisive and splitting democratic party. She keeps pointing out Obama's "inelectability" until people start to believe it. How can she afterwards rally around him ? This drama has to stop. It is killing the party and any resemblance of the voting process as chosen by the democratic party. She can only win if all rules are bent to her liking. Is this what the party wants ? To let Hillary win now by changing rules would be a complete travesty of the voting process.

Posted by: diane | May 28, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Aren't these the same rules that Clinton was okay with at the beginning? How is changing the rules to suit your needs democratic? How is counting votes where not everyone was on the ballot or no one campaigned democratic?
She's lost it..and now she's losing it.

Posted by: markinsa | May 28, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Seems the democrats are at each others throats, its either a racial issue or a feminist issue...why isnt this an american issue? What are the Obama supporters going to do if/when the super delegates all side with Billary and give her the nod....

sheesh

Posted by: Eric | May 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Hillary accepted the fact that Fl and Mi's votes wouldn't count as they violated party rules to even cast them. Obama dosen't even waste time running ads there to conserve rescources for later actual votes. Hillary gets her butt kicked and wants to change the rules later. Funny stuff. Please keep the joy comming.

Posted by: DummyDemocrats | May 28, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Rajah Kahn: Obama did not win the nomination as yet..Recently. Clinton won more states than him and more popular votes. She has a better record than Obama...

=======

In fact - According to BobbleHead Bill, Hillary has already won the general election. Let's just call it done already.

Rules Schmules.

Posted by: DonJulio | May 28, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

The only important question now is who can best win in November. And the answer is HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON. That fact is also now crystal clear.

Oddly enough I see Obama as the correct choice. Why do you True Believers assume you have some divine guidance and the rest of us are just dolts without a clue?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Hillary is making you women look really bad.

Posted by: ele | May 28, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Would someone make this woman go away?

Posted by: Zzz | May 28, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I am a woman of 55 and I am totally embrassed by Hillary Clinton actions. Females have fought and struggled a long time gain the respect we have today.I'll would be the first to say we still have a long way to go. She know in her heart that she agreed earlier that Mi and Fl would not count. Now she wants to change her mind since she is behind. Why? Because she is a "woman" and women have that right? If we as women want to be treated with respect, we must learned that if a man's word is his bond, a woman's word could carry the same weight. She said it best, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". I say "If you can't play with the big boys, go home and bake cookies". Don't try to use the sexiest card when things don't go the way you want them. I've seen her use the tears; the not fair card during the debate; the whing about not enough attention. And it goes on and on. All the aboves are females tricks of the trade. I'm sure there are a lot of us women out there that reconize the cards she is playing.

Posted by: AL | May 28, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

cynthia, baby...I used to go to Lillith concerts too. Dont'cha just love the Indigo girls? I love sunsets and dolphins make me cry. I believe in hopeless causes and the power of Hillary. Women are powerful and they can make life..wow...cynthia, what are you doing the rest of your life? I mean, after you are through tying up traffic in DC and failing to get results? If you need a shoulder to cry on...I just happen to have one...

Posted by: jacksmith | May 28, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

don't give in... i believe that mi and fl should only count for 1/2 delegates, but to be fair we need to stick to the original constitution and return black men's votes to only counting for 3/5 a white one. that means that every black delegate from fl and mi chould get 3/10 of a vote. GO DEMOCRACY!!!

Posted by: fred | May 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

We're Moo'ing for Hillary

Posted by: Stupid Cows For Hillary | May 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I am a woman, and I am all for a woman president ... just not Hillary Clinton. She is in this race for only one reason, and that is so she can fulfill her own personal need for power. I was a Clinton supporter of both Bill and Hillary before this campaign, but not anymore.

She and her supporters cry gender gender bias - that's BS! I am a woman who works in the male-dominated software industry. If I or my very few other female colleagues would would have behaved by blaming, cheating, and lying our way to the top, we would have not gotten where we are today.

After her ill-behavior, she has set the Woman's Rights cause back several decades. She is certainly no role model for my twin daughters.

Posted by: Amy, Colorado | May 28, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

DON'T BE DUPED AGAIN AMERICA !!!

IT'S ABOUT ELECTABILITY !!!

Large numbers of BUSH_McCain Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on with the backing and help of the medical and insurance industry. Under the direction of the George Bush, and Karl Rove vote fraud, and vote manipulation machine. Because they feel Barack Obama would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. And they want to stop Hillary Clinton from fixing the HUGE! American, and Global mess they have created. shocking!!! isn't it. Just gotta love those good old draft dodging, silver spoon Texas boys. Not! :-(

You see, the medical and insurance industry mostly support the republicans with the money they ripped off from you. And they don't want you to have quality, affordable universal health care. They want to be able to continue to rip you off, and kill you and your children by continuing to deny you life saving medical care that you have already paid for. So they can continue to make more immoral profits for them-selves off of you, and your children's suffering.

With Hillary Clinton you are almost 100% certain to get quality affordable universal health care for everyone very soon. And you are also certain to see major improvements in the economy for everyone.

The American people face even worse catastrophes ahead than the ones you are living through now. It will take all of the skills, and experience of Hillary Clinton to pull the American people out of this mess we are in. Fortunately fixing up, and cleaning up others incompetence, immoral degeneracy, and mess is what the Clinton's do very well.

Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama's. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!

Just look at Oregon for example. Obama won Oregon by about 70,000 votes. But approximately 79,000 Bush republicans switched party's back in January to vote for Obama in the democratic primary. They are not going to vote for, or support any Democrat in November. Are you DEMOCRATS going to put up with that. Are you that stupid, and weak. The Bush republicans think you are that stupid, and weak.

As much as 30% of Obama's primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses, and open primaries where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help. Except North Carolina where 35% of the population is African American, and approximately 90% of them block voted for him. African Americans are only approximately 17% of the general population.

Hillary Clinton has been OUT MANNED! and OUT SPENT! 4 and 5 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous, and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton. This is even more phenomenal when you consider she has been also fighting against the George Bush, Karl Rove vote fraud machine in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses. Hillary Clinton is STUNNING!.

If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. That is crystal clear now. Because all of the Republican vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. And the demographics, and experience are completely against him. All of this vote fraud and Bush republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is.

You will have another McGovern catastrophe where George McGovern lost 49 of 50 states. And was the reason the super-delegates were created to keep that from happening again. Don't let that happen to the party and America again super-delegates. You have the power to prevent it. The only important question now is who can best win in November. And the answer is HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON. That fact is also now crystal clear.

And YOUNG PEOPLE. DON'T BE DUPED! Think about it. You have the most to lose. As do African Americans. Support Hillary Clinton. She will do her best for all of you. And she will know how to best get it done on day one.

The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. Everyone needs to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton NOW! So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.

The democratic party, and the super-delegates have a decision to make. Are the democrats, and the democratic party going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee to fight for the American people. Or are the republicans going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee through vote fraud, and gaming the DEMOCRATIC party primaries, and caucuses.

Fortunately the Clinton's have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic, and heroic comebacks of Hillary Clinton's. Only the Clinton's are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen. Probably the best there has ever been. :-)

"This is not a game" (Hillary Clinton)

Sincerely

jacksmith... Working Class :-)

p.s. Cynthia Ruccia - I'm with ya baby. All the way. "Clinton Supporters Count Too."

Posted by: jacksmith | May 28, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Hillary in 08!!

Posted by: Stupid Cows For Hillary | May 28, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

When we as a unified female voice need to break barriers I say you all better watch out! That's what this is about. Not Hilary but you and me as sisters, like it or not.

I'm sorry there are so many stupid cows in my gender.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I would think you might not want to alienate "so many stupid cows" if you really want to take over the world.

Just a suggestion.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Supreme Lawyer | May 28, 2008 3:06 PM

There is more than one way to be fair, Your simply so narcissistic to think that your way is the only way. I knew without reading that your narcissism equated to Clinton.

If you are trying to persuade you have to hide your pompousness or the person you want to persuade won't even read your post.

Posted by: G8tr | May 28, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse


Obama did not win the nomination as yet..Recently. Clinton won more states than him and more popular votes. She has a better record than Obama. She will win Puerto Rico as she campaigned with determination.."I am in to win"...I do not understand why Obama is campaigning in other States, he is not the presumtive nominee as yet. This is strange. I still feel that Clinton has a chance to still be the nominee. He has ignored other states, and is not campaigning there, Is he going crazy, also. Plain and straight, he is not the nominee yet. The Clintons know what they are doing and they are backed by heavy political insiders, who are serious in making her the nominee, regardless if Obama is leading in the delegates.The Clintons know how to overturn the rules..Obama will lose big in Puerto Rico, because he did not campaign there, and he si doing the same thing with SD and Montanna,He is making mistakes, at his Memmorial speech, bery bad. I, for one believe that he will be undaddled by the Clintons, and the posibility is that Clinton will become the NOMINEE..Barack is so STUPID, he should keep on fighting.

Posted by: rajah kahn | May 28, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Hillary and company are setting the Feminist Movement back a few decades.

Sorry but, it's true. This victim/fanatic/over-passionate chest-beating... "Vote for the Woman or else" attitude... I first felt it when Ted Kennedy endorsed Obama. And now this.

Comeon, people... think! The DNC has rules in place for a purpose. They're not going to overturn them because of over-emotional outpouring. You're setting yourselves up for huge disappointment. I think it's really really sad to see this happening.

Don't turn all Rev. Wright-like on the DNC, please? They're following the rules. That's what they're suppose to do.

Posted by: Cindy | May 28, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

If the democratic party can't follow the rules, we end up with 4 years of what we have today. An administration (and party) that doesn't adhere to the rules and tried to change them to suit their needs...

Posted by: Rlouden in Bellevue, WA | May 28, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

You Hillary supporters all act alike. In 2000, when you wanted the votes counted in Florida, it was a vast right wing conspiracy stopping it and giving Bush the election, although that still remains a big lie. An independent group did count all the votes in Florida and determined Bush the winner. Now, that it's politically expedient, you don't want them counted, you just want to hand them to Hillary. Even though Obama's name was not even on the ballot in Michigan, you want to steal those votes and give them to Hillary. Only a new election would tell the real story in either state, but you don't want that either because it may give Obama the edge. Yet, you think you can maintain the moral high ground when you vacillate by which way the political wind is blowing. When Bill was having oral sex in the White House it was a vast right wing conspiracy. Now, that he wants Hillary elected, it's a vast left wing conspiracy to keep her out of the White House. It truly is a matter of the blind leading the blind. Do you people really stand for anything but winning at any cost, even if you must sacrifice the moral high ground? It appears you would all rather believe a lie than to believe the truth. Either that or you are show short minded that you cannot recall history.

Posted by: Jaybird | May 28, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, if Senator Clinton and her supporters truly believe that she is the best candidate and will make the best president, they should leave the Democratic party and run as an Independent.

Given her background, experience, her broad public support, and the grave mistrust that American voters harbor for both parties, there has never been a better time for an independent candidate for POTUS!

By freeing herself from Democratic party dogma and doggerel, Senator Clinto may find that her fund raising efforts gain new traction with disenchanted conservatives and independents, both necessary to any White House bid.

No longer a perceived slave to the "more wacky" liberal policies of the Democratic party, Senator Clinton would be free to chart a new course for politics and this nation. Essentially, voters from all parties might find something to like in Senator Clinton's independent candidacy if they feel that there vote won't be mistaken as some sort of "mandate" for the unappealing aspects of a Democrat controlled Whitehouse and Congress!

Indeed, all three candidates views on most issues are very similar, save for some very salient issues of disagreement. Liberal leaning conservatives and independents might find a Clinton Independent candidacy, absent the "hysterical liberal agenda" and the more troubling "government as nanny aspects" of our Democrat controlled Congress, something that they could support.

There would be no downsides for Senator Clinton if she chooses to "buck the DNC management" and go her own way. She's allways steered her own course, and the public seems to love candidates who are deemed to be maverics. Besides, Senator Clinton has already done most of the heavy lifting just getting this far. America's voters will respect a candidate who is committed and determined to make a change and do what's right. Even more so if that candidate has the courage to stand up to party leaders and their lackeys and tell them that American voters want and deserve a choice other than what the DNC and RNC will allow!

Indeed, failure to run as an independent, caving in to DNC management as it were, might indicate a lack of committment, and represent that Senator Clinton wasn't the right choice after all. American's respect someone who tries. The interests of America's Citizens are far more important than "party unity" and "not rocking the Democratic party barge"!

Posted by: Ed Weirdness | May 28, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Obama has already lost the PROUD Jewish voter that love Israel

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=64260

It seems inconceivable that, in 20 years, Obama would never have picked up a copy of Trumpet," writes Stanley Kurtz in a lengthy Weekly Standard expose of Wright's magazine. "Obama himself graced the cover. ... There can be no mistaking it. What did Barack Obama know and when did he know it? Everything. Always."

Posted by: Not * Meshugena * | May 28, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

The only reasonable way to seat them is to do it in token only, just as the Obama camp has suggested: seat half of them or all of them, split 50/50 between the two candidates. For all the reasons mentioned in the other comments the ballots were/are invalid, no matter how high participation was. How many people stayed home because they knew the vote didn't count (a beauty contest, I think it was called at the time by both candidates)? How would the numbers have changed in Michigan if Hillary hadn't been the only one on there?

These things and more cannot be answered, and they would have to be answered for the FL and MI votes to be valid for consideration as cast. Hillary is only fight for Fl and MI because the sham votes went her way. If she'd lost she'd still be saying what she said before the votes: these votes don't count.

Posted by: Chemist | May 28, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Go, Hillary! America needs your strength to recover!

Emily Duncan

Posted by: Emily Duncan | May 28, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I'm not only a woman - I'm a woman UNDER 50 and I stand up for Hilary and our rights. She is doing the right thing in a left leaning wrong-headed man world.

ONLY women who took free concert tickets and tee shirts home from the traveling circus party are voting for obama. They are the ones waiting with mascara-drenched eyelashes for some guy to come along and take care of them.

WE AS WOMEN ARE MAKING A STAND. THIS is not about HILARY, she just happens to be a OUR great choice as a leader regardless of all the muck racking going on. Of course men will lie, cheat, malign, what ever, to try and deny it.

That she is being beaten to death by MALE riggers and loud mouth, media tongues is NOT A SURPRISE. This is after all the SAME media that gave George his voice to go to war. While everyone stands by and pretends to rationalize this debauch -if we as women can't, don't, won't elect our candidate then we are ALL definitely losers.

NO wonder we have problems, educated or not a lot of women FEAR other women. Any woman who says bad things about Hilary is stupid and fearful. You would have to ignore reality and listen to the peanut gallery about her history to think otherwise. Pointing the fingers you are all pointing, how many of you have done what she does, can do and will continue to ACCOMPLISH?

None of you posters that is for sure. And to be hyper-critical of what you don't know only explains why men are ahead in votes and down in actual body numbers. Men obviously know HOW to celebrate their leaders. Some women on the other hand are simply jealous and lazy.

I'm sorry there are so many stupid cows in my gender. But this is not a sacred cow it is a dim whit that needs to be sacrificed once and for all. Like being brushed aside do you? Talk all that trash now but after-the-fact the truth will come one day and stay to haunt you forever.

GO Hilary I stand with you and for ALL for of us who get it!

Let's face it George the un-president wasn't elected and he is now our president, twice. SO STOP trying to make sense of such a lot of crap. You posters are all on Obama's payroll of freebies with not one new or inspiring to say!

COUNT ALL Florida and Michigan votes for real regardless of all your witless excuses or STOP calling it an election or democratic. NOT under any circumstances regardless of who agreed to what- should or would anyone's vote be denied, ever.

The fact that Dean did this implies someone wanted to skew the deal in the first place. This is about telling women to shut up and sit down. Hope all you un-fems like taking orders from your man before he gives you your allowance.

This is happening not because of Hilary but because women don't claim and accept responsibility for their own power. They acquiesce and want a guy to do it. Can't change a light bulb yet, or want others to do it for you?

When we as a unified female voice need to break barriers I say you all better watch out! That's what this is about. Not Hilary but you and me as sisters, like it or not.

YES, breaking OLD ways of thinking and crusty old male barriers is going to freak out a lot of people! Always has. We are the power and the glory everlasting when we claim our rights and not just accept what men say at face value!!!

If this is a take it or leave it election I'll be leaving it dead by the side of the road. But that's because I can change a light bulb myslef unlike the rest of you cows lining up for the feed bag.

Posted by: Magdalena | May 28, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Catherine | May 28, 2008 3:02 PM

Hillary will never ram herself down our throats. She will need a personality transplant to win.

Posted by: G8tr | May 28, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

The DNC lawyers sound like the Gonzales lawyers who sent out memos that torture was ok. I'm voting for Hillary or McCain.

Posted by: Manny | May 28, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

will all American JEWS move to ISRAEL if OBAMA is the Next President?

Posted by: don | May 28, 2008 2:15 PM
----------------------------

This is the dumbest comment.

I am Jewish and I support Obama. Israel is in talks with Syria right now. When Obama suggests talking with all governments, all the neocons have a knee jerk reaction, when Israel does it no one says anything. A President Obama would be the best thing for both America and Israel.

Posted by: Scott | May 28, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THAT IS FAIR

Since everybody knows when a revote was suggested Obama refused every overture. Some think he was afraid of the results. So we proceed with the current facts.

All votes in Florida count, all candidates were on the ballot, Delegates awarded according to the votes certified in Tallahassee.

In Michigan the delegates are awarded according to the names on the ballot. We do not award delegates to a politician that makes stupid mistakes.

If your name was not on the ballot, no delegates. Otherwise just give me some of the delegates. Some of the voters were thinking of me, do not think I am silly, I can read their minds.

Posted by: Supreme Lawyer | May 28, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

"Rules don't matter"
So are you saying we should break the Rules for the Clinton's?

Posted by: Let's break the rules | May 28, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

To Clinton supporters who can't understand the vitriol against Hillary: It has nothing to do with Obama or sexism and everything to do with Bush. We are fed up with the deception of George Bush and see Hillary as a reincarnation of that man.

George Bush learned some of his tactics from Bill Clinton but simply carried it to an extreme. Ms Clinton has continued in the same mold, Bush-like but not as bad as Bush. That clearly does not disturb you, a judgement you are entitled to make. Her tactics are simply a red flag and like bulls we charge at it. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with uncontrolled rage. For that rage being expressed against your candidate I apologize and you have to accept that we were more traumatized by Bush than you were. The anger is somewhat though not completely misplaced.

Posted by: Gator-ron | May 28, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

It would make sense that an entire group of neo-con haters posing as women on the Washington Post news discussion would dis Hillary since really she is a threat to their agenda.

I am actually a WOMAN and Hillary has set precedents for all women in politics to follow.

Let her break all the antiquated rules, she WILL be President, if not in this election then in another.

Posted by: Catherine | May 28, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Women have worked so hard to demonostrate that they can make tough decisions without allowing emotions to impair their judgement. Hill has set that theory back 50 years.

Posted by: Sac4OB | May 28, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Obama took his own name off the ballot in Michigan to spend resources in Iowa. His choice, his mistake


Hey dumb ass, he took his name off because the DNC told all the candidates the vote doesn't count in Michigan.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

"Rights"
MI and FL knew they were breaking the RULES...Do the American people not GET IT??? If I knew my state was breaking the rules and going before they were told...Do you think I would go and vote?? Edwards and Obama were not even on the ballot...Hillary agreed not to be on the ballet if the states break the rules...Her husband was on DNC board and helped write the rules.

Posted by: Robb | May 28, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Hillary has every right to blame the media!
It was the media that was 100% behind her as the front runner and eventual nominee.

All we heard about was who would she run against in the Republican party.

But along came Obama.
Then Florida/Michigan representatives decide to break the rules and move up.

My, my, my... Florida/Michigan read this one line if you read nothing more. Just imagine if YOUR REPRESENTATIVES didn't make this move. Florida/Michigan would have just as much an impact as the other primary and caucus events with no issues.

Should have learned early in life that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Oh... Hillary & her supporters. If you think you go a protest going on now, I promise you one much bigger if you tank Obama's run come November. I PROMISE!

Posted by: Greg | May 28, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Clinton looks more darned presidential standing up to her own party than anyone out there. Obama took his own name off the ballot in Michigan to spend resources in Iowa. His choice, his mistake. If I lived in MI or FL, I'd be outraged (no matter which candidate or party) that my vote was silenced. Why is she a heinous person for getting all the votes counted? Most of the posters here are so confident Obama will win - what's it to you if all the votes count? He'd still win by your logic. Seems to me that you'd WANT all the votes counted to vindicate yourselves on this.

She's exhibiting true qualities of leadership here. Why isn't your guy? Instead of demanding that he do so, you're trying to protect him, and tear her down. This really makes no sense, and is a fear-based argument. What are you so afraid of?

Posted by: sharonevolving | May 28, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I am a white woman in my fifties and I voted for and support Obama. So much for a united front of women. Just because Hillary is a woman does not automatically mean see gets my vote or support. Her only qualification is her surname, Clinton. If she wasn't the wife of an ex-president, no one would know anything about her and it is doubtful she would have gotten elected as Senator from NY or any other state.

Posted by: Teresa | May 28, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

I will only say this. If Hillary Clinton cared so much about the voters in FL. and Mich. wouldn't she have spoken up when her supporters on the Rules Committee first voted to strip them of their delegates. Isn't that when they were disenfranchised??

One would think so. But one would have thought she would have actually submitted a bill for her Gas Tax Holiday but she failed to do that. I guess it was just another campaign gimmmick.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

What about the "rights" of those who DIDN'T vote because they were told they election didn't count? I just spoke to my cousin in MI ( she's a midwife, by the way, someone whose entire career is devoted to women's health issues); she didn't vote because she was told it didn't count and her candidate's name was not on the ballot. Is is fair to tell her now that the DNC changed it's mind and now the vote counts? I would like to hear a Clinton supporter explain how this is fair.

Posted by: MassMomof Four | May 28, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Did someone say campaigning?

I thought they said complaining - and I'm never gonna quit doing that.

Hillary '08, '09, '10...

Posted by: Hillary for Hillary | May 28, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Obama picks up another dlegate:
State Democratic Party Chairwoman Meredith Wood Smith of Portland, OR said Wednesday she would vote for Obama at the party's national convention in Denver because he won last week's Oregon primary and has demonstrated leadership the country needs.

Smith, in a prepared statement, said it was personally difficult for her to endorse Obama over Clinton.

"As a 65-year-old woman, I have a visceral understanding of the fight for gender equality," Smith said. "My deep respect for Sen. Hillary Clinton and what she means to that fight continues and will continue in the years to come."

But the state party leader also said Obama "demonstrates the leadership needed to get us out of Iraq, restore our economy, begin the tough job of providing health care for all Americans and, most of all, heal the divisions in our nation."

Smith is one of 12 superdelegates who can vote for whichever candidate they wish.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Is the moral of this story that women can only succeed if the rules continually change so that the rules always favor them?

Is the moral of this story also that women must first marry a successful man who becomes President before they can run for president?

Is the moral of this story that women can't do it on their own?

Posted by: Hillary's Dream | May 28, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

With Clinton not getting in, the Democrats will lose out once again. The democratic party has shot itself in both feet shoving Obamaism down our throats. Reasonable people will puke him out, the result will be another republican president. Oh joy.

Posted by: jenene | May 28, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

What a three-ring circus: Protests planned for DC, lawsuits filed (and dismissed) in FL . . . what's next?

I won't vote for Clinton after all of this (should she get the nod), nor will I cast a protest vote for McCain. I would instead sit this one out: The cracks and fissures that the DNC fears are already there, and they're just getting worse.

The Democrats will lose in 2008 -- it's a foregone conclusion: their endlessly perpetuated drama has been their undoing, and illustrates full well why Democrats are incapable of pulling together on serious issues. Even the general election.

Posted by: Uninterested At Last | May 28, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

I will only say this. If Hillary Clinton cared so much about the voters in FL. and Mich. wouldn't she have spoken up when her supporters on the Rules Committee first voted to strip them of their delegates. Isn't that when they were disenfranchised??

I used to admire Hillary and Bill so much. Not any more. She's using FL and Mich. just like she's using me and millions of women like me who want a woman president.

Posted by: Mystified | May 28, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Whatever- I would never vote for a man who sat in a church and listened to hate sermons for 20 years hate for Whites, hate for Jews hate for Italians but worst of all HATE for America- THE VERY AMERICA he wants to be president of - Are you kidding? VOTE HILLARY or VOTE McCain at least they love this country.

Posted by: mimi362 | May 28, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

To Smartdoc:
Duh! Isn't that what I said? The private democratic party will not miss me. They have a whole new group of young voters that they are so desperately hoping will actually show up at the polls this time --since they haven't in the past.

And FYI - I started as an Edwards supporter and didn't choose Hillary until I saw the Obama fraud at my caucus.

I'm going for the third party now - time to break the power of the 2 party system. The parties are out for themselves, not for us, the people.

So, SmartDoc - you do the party's bidding -you be a good democratic solider and let's just see what happens, okay?

Posted by: SGSeattle | May 28, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Hillary's supporters, are not just women but men of reason that love our country and understand that Barack Hussein is young, inexperienced and he is surrounded by black supremacists and extreme radicals and that he will never get elected if he becomes the democratic nominee. WHY?
Because Hillary's supporters will vote for the patriot conservative John McCain, instead of voting for Barack.

Women and men of reason have witnessed and complained that sexism has played a role in the way she has been treated by many in the media.
That view is supported by the way the media treated former Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee for a truly egregious remark he recently made. During a speech before the National Rifle Association this month, after hearing a loud, unexpected noise offstage, he said,
"That was Barack Obama. He just tripped off a chair. He's getting ready to speak. Somebody aimed a gun at him and he dove for the floor."

Why are Hillary's opponents so afraid of a fair fight? Let the voters decide this campaign, and let's count every vote and seat every delegate.

George Bush stole the election in 2000 and we will not let Barack Hussein Obama steal this election!

Posted by: Manolete | May 28, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Hillary will not replace GWB as president. She will replace GWB as the laughing stock of the world.

Posted by: Zzz | May 28, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

As a former Hillary-supporter, I am deeply saddened that the Clintons have gone down the path of lies and deceit to try to win the nomination. They had so many Rovian tactics used against them, but, instead of recognizing how horrible, hurtful and unfair those tactics are, they decided to use them for their own gain. While wearing this "Frodo's Ring", they have been blinded to what's right.
What I find even more tragic is that so many Hillary supporters don't realize how SHE IS USING THEM for her own gain. Take any of her "passionate points", such as MI and FL, and you'll find they aren't deep philosophical ideas, but rather temporary positions she's taken to try to get the advantage. It's especially sad when you consider how well she could have represented all women if she had decided to run a fair and intelligent race, but now is a disgrace to both her gender and her adopted state of New York. I still hope, but dimly, that she will chose a classier path for the rest of this, but that seems unlikely.

Posted by: Glenn Wahl | May 28, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

According to Democratic Convention Watch, DNC lawyers issued an opinion concerning the seating of the Florida and Michigan delegation. The following is printed from AP:
-------------------------------------------

Wednesday, May 28, 2008
DNC Lawyers: Can't fully seat FL and MI
DNC lawyers have weighed in on the FL & MI debacle:


"A Democratic Party rules committee has the authority to restore delegates from Michigan and Florida but not fully seat the two states at the convention as Hillary Rodham Clinton wants, according to a party analysis.

Party rules require that the two states lose at least half of their convention delegates for holding elections too early, Democratic National Committee lawyers wrote in a 38-page memo.

The memo was sent late Tuesday to the 30 members of the party's Rules and Bylaws Committee, which plans to meet Saturday to consider the fate of convention delegates from the two states. The party is considering plans to restore at least some of the delegates to make sure the two important general election battlegrounds will be included at the nominating convention in August.

The analysis lays out merits on all sides of the argument of how many delegates should be seated and how they should be divided. And it underscores a prickly problem -- if the Rules and Bylaws Committee decides to restore any of the states' delegates, there is not a simple way to divide them between Clinton and Barack Obama. - AP"
-------------------------------------------

Posted by: NewEra | May 28, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I invite those who believe that Michigan and Florida should be counted based on their primaries to do some origins on exactly why they were penalized so harshly for breaking the DNC primary calendar rules that the rest of the country followed. In a nutshell, the stated DNC rules at the time were that the seated delegates would be awarded 1/2 vote or 50%. A DNC credentials meeting was held in August 2007, at which time, the committee decided that these two states should receive a harsher punishment. Apparently, the majority of committee members were Clinton supporters and voted for stripping the states of any representation at the convention. The one member who voted against this was a supporter for Obama. So, you tell me, who disenfranchised the voters in Florida and Michigan and why hasn't the Clinton campaign explained their about face? The only thing that will come out of the meeting on Saturday is reinstating 50% of these states delegates. Let's start dealing with reality and, please, spare us the victim syndrome ladies - it does not reinforce your argument.

Posted by: Rob | May 28, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

"EVERY RULE HAS AN EXCEPTION, ESPECIALLY THIS ONE because I'm Hillary the senator of New York!! Shame on you Hillary even if you bring a train load leave a lone a bus load full of withered old stinky women no sane person can listen to your whining, shifting of goal post whenever you are loosing! the point is James Carville and ferraro and all your surrogates has outlived their usefulness in your campaign instead of them being an asset to you! they have turned out to be liability!. You only have yourself to blame! get over it otherwise you might even loose your senate seat!!

Posted by: Pedeen | May 28, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Shame on YOU, all of you, turning this into some sort of feminist issue. Think more about the death of feminism under John McCain, as your victim mentality will only destroy the democratic party!!!

Posted by: LindaP | May 28, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Charlie 2:12PM :

Your position has been brought to court twice and has lost twice. What seems logical to you is not the way the law works. I think the DNC rules are the delegation is cut in half. Whatever the final distribution between candidates is, the delegation's votes will only be half.

I am from Florida and I knew when I went to the polls that my vote would not count. That is what the DNC said. I voted because of the real estate tax issue, but might not have at all if the tax was not on the ballot. I suspected at the time that there might be a repeat election in June since having no FL delegates seemed implausible.

If the Democrats followed the DNC rules instead of stripping the vote altogether, Hillary would have no legal argument at all.


t

Posted by: G8tr | May 28, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Rules....
Why are we changing the Rules for the Clintons??
The Clinton's agreed to the rules of the DNC.
Why are women voters not seeing what is happening....Hillary will not play fair and square when she is losing.
What happen to what are parents taught us about Rules???
This will look really bad for the party if we change the rules for the Clinton's.
Please think about...It's not about RACE or GENDER!!!! The Clinton's want it to be about gender...Hillary lost the election fair and square...

Posted by: Robb | May 28, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

According to my angel consultant, Hillary is winning the angle-metrics 5 to 1.

Posted by: Kees | May 28, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

I don't get how women feel disenfranchised because Florida and Michigan might not get all of their delegates seated? Hillary has gotten these people all mixed up. You don't have to be sexist to despise Hillary. I've despised Bush for eight years, but nobody ever called me anti-male or anti-Texan. To say that we have to vote for Hillary because she's a woman and it's our turn is the height of ignorance. To me, she has demonstrated her hypocrisy, her incompetence, her selfishness and her maliciousness in this campaign, and I don't want her anywhere near the White House. So tell me again, what does this have to do with Florida and Michigan?

Posted by: Rose | May 28, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

mimi62 and the rest...
CALL THEIR BLUFF

I am sick of hearing how you are going to vote for McCain and give him up to three Supreme Court seats to appoint. You are willing to have Rowe V Wade overturned because your feelings are hurt. BS. You will vote for Obama. Get over it.

Posted by: Don | May 28, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

The DNC already know what they are going to do. I wonder if Obama was in her shoes would we still be hearing all these cry babies? June 3rd should be a WRAP! People want to put the blame on Obama and other people supporting him, but they know the TRUTH!

At least everyone is involve and how ever you look at the situation a Democrate should win this fall.

Mrs. Clinton needs to understand that if she cares so deeply about the American people and the democrated party she would do everything in her power to have Mr. Obama in the White House.

One other thing, I hope she don't get mad at the party and leave like Lieberman. That was some Punk _ _ _ _ (You fill in the Blanks)(Hint: Number 2)

Posted by: Curtis | May 28, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Fla and Mich voters disenfranchised themselves. No one else did it to them. Both state Dem parties KNEW they were in violation of the rules the AGREED to when they moved the primaries. The VOTERS KNEW they were voting in primaries that were not sanctioned by the national leaders of their party. everyone involved KNEW there were going to be consequences, and now they're crying because they didn't get away with it.

Too damned bad. When you break the rules, you get punished. You broke the rules, now suck it up and deal with it. Better luck in 2012. Perhaps by then you'll have learned the lesson.

Posted by: Vale | May 28, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

It is all so disingenuine. We all know that Hillary doesn't really believe that the Republcian controlled legislature in Florida should be deciding policy for the DNC. She just wants the votes and doesn't care how she gets them. After 7 years of lie after lie because 'the ends justify the means' aren't we all pretty sick and tired of it?

Posted by: Don | May 28, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

This is truly SAD and UNFORTUNATE....


To Hillary: You are you're own UNDOING....Praise the Living God!!!!!

Posted by: need4trth | May 28, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

SGSeattle

You won't be missed

Posted by: smartdoc | May 28, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Aussie 2020...I guess now people like you are forced to result to personal insults and threats. I for one am a man with a brain and have thought for myself all the way through this political process. I have in fact evolved my thinking with respect to who I support. It is neither because I am a man, or a guilty white person. It is simply because I listen...interpret...analyze...synthesize...and determine where I fall on any given position. It is in fact what all people (men and women) do who have brains. What has surprised me the most are the visceral attacks by one support group against another. I just don't get it. In the end you undermine your position and your point with your rhetoric...oh yes and your misspellings and use of grammar especially while you question another's brain capacity..

Posted by: tiredofthewhining | May 28, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Thank God for Obama because we would not have realized we had put a "nut" in the White House like Hillary until it was too late.

Posted by: Jim | May 28, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

You People are so insulting, You must be running scared otherwise why such animosity? Well, you can be as insulting as you want but be cognizant of the fact that if Obama is the nominee we too will be voting and in case you didn't realize McCain is an option.

Posted by: mimi362 | May 28, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Honestly, I am in a state of feeling so sorry for her!

First she is a strong candidate, with brass Balls (one of the boys)... (NOT)~~

Then she is the hometown girl, drinking beer and doing shots with the neighborhood guys in the bar.... (NOT)--

Then she decided that the super-delegates would be the deciding factor and since she had the most...*at the time*. She was the front runner... (Wrong again)....

Now she needs FL and MI to annotated that she has the most popular vote...but if they split the delegates (that would make that notion mute) (whoops another miss-spoke)

Oh yeah and she is now become a victim!

Short of something "sad' happening to Obama....?????? WTF....!!!!!

Please Hillary Leave the Magic to David Copperfield... Your wand is not working!

GO AWAY!!!!!

Bill said no other candidate has ever had people telling them to leave ... I do not recall any candidate as desperate as your wife BILL!!!! She has "HOW DARE THIS BLACK MAN TAKE WHAT IS MINE" all over her face!

Ps... and so do you!

Posted by: puddlescited | May 28, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Senator Clinton needs to grow up. The Oval office needs to be occupied by a mature adult, preferably with some intellect and intelligence. Not by some whinging loser stamping her foot because the rules she agree to no longer suit her.

Posted by: Geoffrey | May 28, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Little children,
I know you didn't get it your way. That sometimes happens.
Making an scenne is not going to change it.
Try to get over it. We will help you get over it.

Posted by: Ana Lucia | May 28, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

watch out every one, she was right in thinking someone might be assasinated.

why, because the clintons will not lose to a black man!!! and bush/cheney will see to that..wait until that happens..

and even if obama like everyone is saying to ask her to v.p, and if they made a pack that she will turn it down,and say thank you anyways, watch what she will do on national tv. she will say yes.... and then what is obama going to say??

then it will happen bang bang. then who is the president...missery hillary...

Posted by: david belanger | May 28, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

P Rames wrote:

"Why are all the Hillary naysayers worried. Florida and Michigan voters' voices SHOULD be heard AND votes counted!"
______________

How? They should ALL go to Hillary? That's what she is insisting. Obama followed the rules and wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan. How is that "fair"?

It's my belief that NO concessions should be made, but if they are, the delegates should just be split 50/50.

Posted by: sequoia | May 28, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

"Count the Votes and seat the delegates" is not the democtatic thing to do when Obama wasn't even on the ballet in one of the states and many people in both states didn't vote because they were told it wouldn't count. The fanatics that support this strategy, should they prevail, cannot carry a general election in which most of the electorate will be utterly sick of this woman by November

Posted by: harbinger | May 28, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

will all American JEWS move to ISRAEL if OBAMA is the Next President?

Posted by: don | May 28, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

The state motto says it all: The innovation hub of the Americas.

Florida has more innovative ways to be AFU than any other place I know.

Posted by: steve boyington | May 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

They don't speak english in Florida anyway.
Why should they vote?
Obama '08

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Here's a thought...if HRC is willing to ignore these rules, what other rules would she be willing to ignore if she were elected?
This does not bode well...

Posted by: owl | May 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

there are millions in Florida and Michigan who didn't go to vote because they was told their vote was useless. But Hillary doen't want to talk about that, their doesn't matter!

Posted by: observer | May 28, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

The women will need a new leader who will undo the image of the woman's movement today. I despise Clinton and would not vote for her, but I see her in the same light as Jesse Jackson. She is the Moses of the movement and Joshua has yet to appear.

What needs to come forward is a woman leader who is not narcissistic, who can relate to men on their terms and who does not see her role as based on her gender. The wound of sexism has festered too long. I think the right woman is ten years too young to run today.

Posted by: Gator-ron | May 28, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Hillary will still be campaigning and complaining on the day that Barack is being sworn in as president.

Posted by: steve | May 28, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Horse laughing DIKE

Posted by: don | May 28, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Aussie

Why are you crying now? Is it because you though HRC was going to run away with the election, NOT. Why have the Clinton's and their machine not started this fight when it happened. The bottom line is that she WILL NOT and CAN NOT win the nomination.

Posted by: bigkz | May 28, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

The DNC's battle was with the states of Florida and Michigan to not change the primary dates. The DNC couldn't prevail and the dates were changed. So they take it out on the Democratic voters in those states? Doesn't follow - not logical - they had nothing to do with it. The DNC compounded their problem when they disenfranchised the voters. The fact they couldn't stop the states from changing the primary dates IS NOT a rational for disenfranchising the voters. Arbitrary, Non sequitur - will not stand in court. Unless they argue they can chose who are the members of the party or not? Is that their position? Florida and Michigan voters not wanted - Good way to lose the election!

Posted by: Charlie | May 28, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Chris24e wrote:

"sequoia - I'm confused with you. What are they talking about when they say women voters aren't being counted?"
___________

Hi Chris - that was a quote from Rosemary Camposano. I have no idea what she is talking about.

And Aussie2020 - stop your absurd screaming. Hillary lost fair-and-square. We're done indulging your crazy victimhood mentality. It's pathetic. Grow up.

Posted by: sequoia | May 28, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Like 'em or not, these are the rules. Sen Clinton knew them, Sen Obama knew them, Gov Dean knew them, the Michigan and Florida Dem Party officials knew them.

I live in MI and I thought it was a stupid decision to move the primary up. It did not put MI in a better position to affect the choice of candidate and it did not bring campaign dollars into the state; quite the opposite in fact. Worse, it puts us in the same company as election-challenged Florida.

All that said, if the rules state that the DNC can only penalize us half our delegates then we should send and seat those delegates. If that gives anyone heartburn tough. There are mechanisms for changing the rules but not during an election cycle. Remember this and fix it after the general.

As an indy myself, I could care less about MI or FL having delegates at the DNC (or RNC or LNC, or Green, or whatever) convention. These are not public, government organizations and it pisses me off that we pay for their primaries anyway. These are clubs that should settle their issues and put up their candidates without sticking their hands in my pockets.

Finally, what this whole thing DOES say is that, as I suspected all along, Sen. Clinton will do or say ANYTHING to get into the Oval Office. Her statements about counting the votes is disingenuous; primaries and caucuses are nowhere near as rigorously managed as actual government elections so it is unlikely all the votes are counted regardless. If she gains the Presidency by breaking the rules, how does that make her any better than the SOB who currently holds the office? If she is the nominee, I'll vote McCain and so will my state.

Posted by: DonT | May 28, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Why are all the Hillary naysayers worried. Florida and Michigan voters' voices SHOULD be heard AND votes counted! It is not the voters fault that the Democratic leaders in those states disregarded the rules, they are the ones that should be held accountable, not the voters. This has nothing to do with cheating anyone, this has to do with fairness. Florida's Republicans are responsible for the fiasco this country is in. Do we want to continue? The Republicans are licking their chops at this point with the Democratic contender they think is going to get the nomination, yup, licking their chops and laughing all the way to the polls.

Posted by: P Rames | May 28, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Has everyone forgot that Hillary agreed that Florida and Michigan would not be counted before the primaries started? Everyone in sports should be able to change the rules like Hillary when they are behind.

Posted by: Jim | May 28, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

I'm wondering why there is such an outcry regarding Fla. and Mich. from Hillary when she agreed to allow the very rules she is against now. Even little children get over crying and pouting; and so should she.

Posted by: Bob L. | May 28, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

The problem with seating half of the delegates... is Hillary can't be sure if her half get's the seats or Obama's......

So far... he has kick her behind!

Posted by: puddlescited | May 28, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Why dont we change the rules in her favor and start again. seems fair. or at least until we get it right and Hillary gets nominated. talk about keep raising the bar...or maybe we can take out those states that barack won.. seems fair...

Posted by: enn | May 28, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

It is not just women. It is all MEN WITH BRAINS who support the count all votes. So all MEN with Brains get out and support the Cause of Democracy. The Presidential election was lost in Florida when all of the votes were not counted. Now Obama, Howard Dean, John Edwards and the DNC Insiders are using Republican Party tactics to Disenfranchise millions of registered voters and their votes in both Florida and Michigan. We NEED TO STOP the DNC Insiders, Howard Dean, John Edwards and Obama from HIGHJACKING Democracy the Democratic PARTIES (Each State's Democratic party has a RIGHT to choose the date of its primary and also must follow the mandates set forth by the Democrats in each state. There is no DICTATOR and Howard Dean must realize HE IS NO DICTATOR!!). So get out and support the Cause if you are Man with a BRAIN. Of course if you are scarcrow who has staw in your head for a brain, you need not show up. Only Men with Brains need show up. We want men with Brains, who know how to think for themselves and are not the Blind following the Blind (Howard Dean, John Edwards, Obama and the DNC Insiders).

Count all the votes and seat all of the delegates. It is the DEMOCRATIC thing to do!!+

Posted by: Aussie2020 | May 28, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

sequoia - I'm confused with you. What are they talking about when they say women voters aren't being counted?

Posted by: Chris24e | May 28, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Excuses, excuses, excuses.....

One thing after another with her!!!!!!

I am being ignored...

I am being asked the hard questions....

I am a victim of sexism....

"try"... I am losing or I have lost!

A little truth is all we are asking for!

Posted by: puddlescited | May 28, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

I don't get the Florida part, they didn't have a choice in the time of the primary. It is like the DNC deciding to punish the country because Bush made a decision.

Posted by: vkd | May 28, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Al Bore's gracelessness under pressure must be contagious. If Hillary cannot bring down the Democratic Party, perhaps she will try to bring down the Republic.

Or perhaps, she will sit on the ground and hold her breath until everyone gives in.

Someone wrote a column about women leaders like Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir and Indira Gandhi. They must be a different gender than our own homegrown Hillary Rodham Clinton.

She is a lamia, at best.

Posted by: sailhardy | May 28, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

HRC is becoming a joke of the democratic party. She can not win the election AT ALL! So she wants the votes all counted, ok, lets count the votes that were in the caucus states and see were she is then, since she lost. I am sure she would be crying thats not the way that its done. The rules are the rules. I will say unless she changes her ways, if she runs again she WILL NEVER get my vote. I am a Dem, also. She is starting to embarrass the party by her actions.

Yes, I am sorry that FL and Mich were not seated, but they DID NOT play by the rules. The REP. controlled the vote in FL. Punish the people who voted to move this up it was not Obama.

The Clinton's have forget the pledge she and all the other Dem. signed, but this is what they want. They think the Pres. is a right to them which they will loose in 4 days and counting.

Posted by: bigkz | May 28, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

If Obama Losses in November We now know who to blame..... HILLARY

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

You all might want to remember why these sacred "rules" were made in the first place - to prevent what is happening right now.

Unless the Private Democratic Party announces that they will immediately change the rules after this primary - outlawing fraud driven caucuses and payments and promises to superdelegates, then this former democrat has NO problem going independent.

I will never vote for the Party choice - the choice of the most left, activist democrats; MoveOn.org, The Nation Magazine, foamin' at the mouth Randi Rhodes, etc.

As for FORMER Sen. Dashcle -- Dude, the people of South Dakota voted you out! Why would the rest of us trust YOUR judgment in picking a candidate? I can appreciate you want to thank him for hiring most of your staff - and lucky for him as a newbie do-nothing Senator he had your staff telling him how things work in the Senate, right? But you and Sen. Kerry have no credibility since neither of you could win the MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION in your own lives. Don't waste my time.

I have no problem writing in Hillary's name or EGAD! voting for McCain. It's not like McCain can do anything with a Democratic majority in the House and Senate - I definately prefer gridlock to Obama's "dialogue" version of old-style Chicago politics. I can not trust a politican who manipulated or mentored his way to where he is now.

Please don't try to scare me about McCain selecting conservative supreme court judges, he can't without Senate/House approval and it won't happen. Don't try your scare tactics with Roe V Wade or the War either - same criteria applies.

Get my drift? There will be no uniting for many of us. But hey, the Democratic party has all those new young voters now, so I know won't be missed at all.

Posted by: SGSeattle | May 28, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Unfortunately, this move can only be relevant as it would pertain to future nominations.....

It should not have any relevance to the procedures as they stand today...

Sorry...'yet another brick wall'!~~~~~

Posted by: puddlescited | May 28, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

This woman is out of her mind, typical spoil rich wife of a powerful man.

Mrs. Clinton please get a grip.

Mrs. Ferraro say yesteday on O'Railly factor that superdelegates had "no spine", now Mrs clinton is writting a letter to obtain support from them????

If they already have no expectations from superdelegats judged by Mrs. Ferraro coments that superdelegates have no spine, what do they expect to earn from the rally??? more documentation for mrs clinton book???? or movie????

Posted by: Alma ludivina | May 28, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

If her own party can't trust her word to follow the rules who can?

Posted by: don | May 28, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

We should make it a national rally and throw tea in the harbor...
Oh wait this is ELECTION without representation not taxation :
MAYBE WE CAN HAVE LOCAL ONES AND MAKE IT NATIONAL !

( and throw tea in the harbor ! or would that be too feminine ??)

Posted by: Swannie | May 28, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Women being disenfranchised? Haha. Get OVER yourselves... if that's the case, why don't they just seat only women voters from both states. Give me a break and deal with it already. Half of the delegates sounds like a good compromise to me. Don't drag this into a sexism issue, because it's not!

Posted by: Jason Stengren | May 28, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Hillary clearly is on a deadly ego trip. IF she cared about this country she would get out of the way of Obama and begin supporting him NOW.

start-loving dot blobspot dot com

ps: WHERE ARE THE SUPERDELEGATES? (cowering in a corner afraid of Hillary)

Posted by: Start Loving | May 28, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Crybaby loosers and cheaters seek to have protest.

Posted by: Dave | May 28, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Florida Cuban voters should only be counted as 1/2 persons.
LOL

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

HRC Demagogue. Crass, craven, with no scruples.

How low can she go?

DNC committee, stand up and be counted. Restore democracy.

Posted by: Bruce becker | May 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

How rediculous of the Democratic Party to hide behind Attorney letters as if that gives the plan to seat half of the delegates from Michigan and Florida any credibility!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

HAHAHAHAAHHAHA - You knew that was coming, please isn't anyone really surprised. Those Hillary Supporters are so funny, especially after the witch agreed to the rules.

Posted by: latinovoter | May 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Some groups should only count as 1/2 persons. Especially when voting.
LOL

Posted by: Anonymous | May 28, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

in the 8th dimension where Hillary is Queen, she rules with an iron fist. Back here on earth, she is the candidate with no scruples, who is silent on restoration of our rights. She now tramples on the most elemental democratic concept, that NH and Iowa are first, so that we can allow any person, even a poor unknown, to run for President. If Mich and Florida are seated according to her wishes, democracy is dead, and only the super-rich can run for president.
Changing the rules for her will be suicide.
I will vote for the Libertarian if she gets the nomination.
I will work for democracy, against her tyrannical rule if she wins.

Posted by: bruce becker | May 28, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

"Rules were meant to be broken.

After all, when you really think about it, let me ask you this. What are rules anyway, but a mere set of words on paper? And who's to say that these rules were meant to serve any purpose. Don't let "them" tell you any different. These rules were probably written many years ago with the intent of one day keeping Hillary down.

The media's outcry about rules is really just a conspiracy to disrespect my wife - which is something to which I can personally relate.

As a leader in bending rules, I can tell you as I've repeatedly stated over the past several days; Hillary has already won the General Election.

I look forward to seeing ya'll in Washington over the next eight years."

- Bill Clinton

Posted by: DonJulio | May 28, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

--says Camposano. "We've been hearing from women who feel like women, as group, we are 51 percent of the country and we don't have a voice when getting heard in the media. ... We're hearing from the women who feel completely outraged about being ignored in this process and being marginalized."
_______________

What the HELL is she talking about?

How have women been "ignored and marginalized in this process?" Because Hillary LOST fair-and-square and is having difficulty stealing the nomination?

They are crazy! They REALLY need to get over the fact that we had an election and not a coronation.

Oh, and by the way, Obama has more support among women than Hillary. She only leads white women over 50.

Posted by: sequoia | May 28, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

--says Camposano. "We've been hearing from women who feel like women, as group, we are 51 percent of the country and we don't have a voice when getting heard in the media. ... We're hearing from the women who feel completely outraged about being ignored in this process and being marginalized."

Do the media decide who the Democratic candidate will be? Your candidate just came up short in the number of delegates and votes, which even some Hillary supporters admit is mainly due to the mistakes and strategic blunders made by Hillary and her campaign. If you really want respect, try not to become a sour loser.

Posted by: incredulous | May 28, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Sore losers in the extreme.

Posted by: Cheryl | May 28, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Great, a bunch of sweaty heifers stampeding through DC, screeching and whining.

Posted by: annoying beyotch countdown... | May 28, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Who do we want? HILLARY! What did we break? THE RULES! Who do we want? HILLARY! What did we break? THE RULES!

Posted by: steve boyington | May 28, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse


*yawn*

These people are a joke. Hillary is DESPERATELY trying to CHEAT to change the outcome of her failed campaign and it's obvious to anybody with a brain.

Maybe a woman shouldn't be president? Just sayin'.

Posted by: Shawn | May 28, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

This truly a damn shame. I have no grief for this woman. Hilliary Clinton and her supporter are all full of it. Now they want to start a new feminist movement? Enough is enough. Hilliary is a sore loser and a horrible role model. I could care less about the gender of the President but if she has the to be the first women President I would have to denounce it.

Posted by: Wanda | May 28, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

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