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Clinton Invokes 2000 in Quest for Florida Support


Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) addresses people during a campaign stop at Century Village at Boca Raton May 21, 2008, in Boca Raton, Fla. (Getty Images)

By Perry Bacon Jr.
BOCA RATON, Fla. -- Invoking the controversial dispute over electoral results in Florida in 2000, Hillary Clinton is campaigning in areas where Democrats felt their votes were not counted fairly then and demanding that this year's results of primaries both in the Sunshine State and Michigan be counted, even though they violated Democratic Party rules.

"We believe the popular vote is the truest expression of your will. We believe it today just as we believed it back in 2000 when, right here in Florida, you learned the hard way what happens when your votes aren't counted and a candidate with fewer votes is declared the winner," Clinton told a crowd at retirement home in Boca Raton. "The lesson of 2000 here in Florida is crystal clear: if any votes aren't counted, the will of the people isn't realized and our democracy is diminished."

While counting the votes in Florida and Michigan, both states where Clinton won the popular vote, would help her candidacy, Clinton cast her cause in historical and moral terms in a speech that quoted the Declaration of Independence, described the struggle of blacks and women to earn voting rights and invoked the legacies of Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry Truman. And her staging was even more clear, starting off talking to a group of seniors in Palm Beach County, the place known for the so-called dimpled chads and a confusing ballot that resulted in some Democrats voting for Pat Buchanan rather than Al Gore.

"I believe the Democratic Party must count these votes. ... Count them exactly as they were cast," she said. "I am here today because I believe the decision our party faces is not just about the fate of these votes and outcome of these primaries, it's about about whether we will uphold our most fundamental values as Democrats and Americans. ... I believe that both Senator Obama and myself have an obligation as potential Democratic nominees, in fact we all have an obligation as Democrats to carry on this legacy to ensure in our nominating process every voice is heard and every vote is counted. This is a core mission of the modern Democratic Party."

Her tone was a departure from the fiery populist rhetoric of recent days, in which she has cast herself as an underdog. Instead, in a soft, almost pleading voice, she said she believed that "whether you voted for me or Senator Obama or Senator Edwards, each vote is a prayer for our nation."

The crowd of several hundred loudly applauded, as her supporters do all over the country when she takes up the issue of counting the Michigan and Florida delegations, which has become a central plank in her longshot campaign to overtake Barack Obama. Clinton wants to count votes in Michigan and Florida, which could allow here to overtake Obama in the popular. If she won the popular vote, her aides said, along with maintaining her strong poll numbers in states like Florida against Sen. John McCain, it would strengthen her argument to Democratic superdelegates to chose her over Obama, who has won the battle over delegates selected through Democratic primaries and caucuses.

By Web Politics Editor  |  May 21, 2008; 3:15 PM ET
 
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Comments

It's confirmed...this country is FAR more racist (and dumb) than it is sexist (and dumb). Voting for McCain because Hillary got her tail handed to her is the ABSOLUTE WORST tactic EVER! After all this REPUBLICAN administration has done, there are still dumb, ass-backwards dems who will cut off their noses to spite their face and vote for McCain. This is a nation filled to the brim with IDIOTS.
Then after all is said and done, you'll still be crying and complaining about the state of the nation...you'll get what you deserve and you'll only have yourselves to blame.

Posted by: JLH | May 30, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

This is so odd...

Florida and Michigan both knew the consequences of holding early primaries.

Clinton and Obama both agreed to those rules and conditions...

And now everybody (meaning the party) is confused about how the situation should be handled...

I know... ask a third grader!!

It's not that deep!!

Ummm... Ockham's Razor

Posted by: Diane | May 29, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Just watched recount and believe Hillary is right. How could anyone even consider not counting those votes/delegates after what happened in 2000???? I mean really we are supposed to be the democrats---and we are no better than Zimbawae

Posted by: catty | May 25, 2008 10:39 PM | Report abuse

She will surely duck this one, if she could run from sniper fire I am sure she would be happy to carry on running freely.

Such an elusive runner.

Posted by: Diega | May 23, 2008 2:25 AM | Report abuse

Hillary should just shut up! What part of "LOSER" does she not understand? It is evident that she cannot win. So quit and bow out gracefully. Obama has the most delegates the most wins and the popular votes. What more does he need? Hillary is such a sore loser!

It is amazing that she so desperately wants to win that she now wants to change the rules of the agreed upon democratic elections. Both Obama and Hillary agreed before the elections started that they would acknowledge the penalties afforded to both Florida and Michigan. But how convenient for Hillary to now request that both of these states be allowed for their votes to count. She is, will always be a L-O-S-E-R!!!!!

LOSER, LOSER, L-O-S-E-R!!!!

Posted by: Carlos | May 22, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse

You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch.
You really are a heel.
You're as cuddly as a cactus,
You're as charming as an eel.
Mrs. Grinch.

You're a bad banana
With a greasy black peel.


Posted by: nOT EVER GOING TO BE AN OBAMA ZOMBIE | May 22, 2008 11:35 PM | Report abuse

I find it ironic, to say the least, that Obama considers it more important to protect Democracy in Israel, while totally ignoring the rights of voters in Florida and Michigan. Obviously, Obama does not believe in protecting the elements of Democracy that may preclude him from winning the way to the White House -- his ultimate quest. Hillary supporters let all go GREEN in November!!

Posted by: Cloria | May 22, 2008 11:13 PM | Report abuse

A black man? Yes. But not That black man! Sorry not this man his wife is to polarizing her unlikeable demeanor.
The unappetiziing thought of President " Berrhell"
The More inspirational quest by Hillary Clinton to become the country frist Women president.
not The Obamas are dirty cheating in cauces

Posted by: Take it to the Convention in AUG | May 22, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

This Spanish-speaking individual's command of the English language will certainly never improve! This time I wrote "I warn warn" instead of "I warn". I apologize myself at least for the hundredth time.

Posted by: Ernesto Sebastián Vázquez | May 22, 2008 9:36 PM | Report abuse

This is not about Obama or Senator Clinton - it is much bigger than both of them. It's about a fundamental privelege of being a citizen of this, the greatest democracy in the world. If the Democratic Party does not honor the votes of millions of our own citizens, they are setting a very dangerous precedant. All patriotic citizens of this great nation should be very, very concerned about that, no matter what candidate you root for.

That's exactly why Senator Clinton is standing up right now. And exactly why we need to support her brave and gallant efforts! This is very important, not only for her nomination but for our overall democratic process. Our brother's and sister's rights in FL and MI are being blatantly stomped on by Party elites. That is not democracy! That is borderline tyrany.

Posted by: US Patriots | May 22, 2008 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Having my native Argentina ruled by my former president's pitiful wife, I warn Americans seriously against voting Mrs.Clinton.

Posted by: Ernesto Sebastián Vázquez | May 22, 2008 9:30 PM | Report abuse

"Hillary Clinton is such a looser..."

Looser than most.

:)

Posted by: Chuckamok | May 22, 2008 6:14 PM | Report abuse

"Hillary Clinton has been out manned; out gunned, and out spent 2 and 3 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton."

You GOTTA be kidding. Obama has come out of nowhere to beat the vaunted Clinton Machine at its own game.

The Hill-Bot Relentless Ambition Carnival will go down as one of the biggest political face plants in history.

Posted by: Chuckamok | May 22, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

To All concerned Democratic Party Members:

Below is a link to ALL of the 200+ uncommitted superdelegates who have not decided! It's time that we as democrats put an end to the PROPAGANDA and DISENGENUOUS campaiging of the Clinton campaign and their staff members. They are using Florida and Michigan to overturn the will of the voters and pledged delegates. The three remaining states will not change any math and at this point, BARAK OBAMA has earned the NOMINATION and to play these ugly games are pitiful. PER ARIANNA of the Huffingtonpost, "WE SHOULD NOT TELL HILLARY CLINTON TO STAND DOWN BUT WE SHOULD TELL THE REMAINING UNCOMMITTED SUPERDELEGATES TO STAND UP AND SHUT THIS THING DOWN"....It is unfair that leaders of the DNC have allowed this unjust treatment of Obama and the pitiful campagning of Hillary. She has injected race, class, and sexism into this primary campaign in hopes of successfully getting what she demands - - THE NOMINATION! We as democrats must contact these uncommitted superdelegates and demand that they take a stance NOW. The link is http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/superdelegates-who-havent-endorsed.html. You may also get the link the visiting the "HUFFINGTON POST" at www.huffingtonpost.com. Let all of us that a have a voice, speak NOW Or forever hold your peace! We will not let them steal the nomination from Obama or continue to hurt his chances of winning the General Election!

Posted by: SuperdelegatesMUST DECIDE NOW!! | May 22, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Hillary provided the perfect response several years ago: it's hard to deal with people who can't be embarrassed. Apparently, she failed to learn her own lesson.

Posted by: Pete M | May 22, 2008 5:53 PM | Report abuse

I am very glad that Obama and his campaign didn't accept a re-vote. Especially given the fact that the Clinton's wanted to fund it and control it. That was a joke and a scam. They were seting him up for the kill. Florida and Michagan was penalized by the DNC and now it's up to the DNC to decide what needs to be done. Not Obama and certainly not Hillary. The DNC needs to sit down with it's top leaders and do exactly what the Republicans did, take 50% of the delegates away and seat the rest. The other 48 states played by the rules and to not punish them would be unfair. Hillary can't say whatever she wants but she is ver disengenuous because she coud care less about the Florida and Michigan voters. Obama's team are will to give her the majority but the don't even want Obama to get the uncommitted votes. The Clintons are playing really nasty and I demand the DNC to pull the plug on the pitiful tactics by the Clintons ASAP!

Posted by: Pitiful | May 22, 2008 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton is such a looser...I have lost every ounce of respect that I ever had for Billo. I never really cared much for Hillary because I had always heard that she was very disive with a very negative polarizing attitude. I heard this during the time the Bubba was in the White House. This is the main reason why her "Great Healthcare Plan" fell through and was never successful. Hillary doesn't know how to get along. What's more deceitful of Hillary is that she and her campaign along with all of the other candidates signed a Pledge that the "votes in both Florida and Michigan wouldn't count. It was until she realized that she was being beat by a young, black Junior Senator who had obviously mastered how to win the nomination by injecting the American People and his supporters into the campaign process, Hillary then sought out to seat Florida and Michigan. Hillary is using the Florida and Michigan argument for her own personal gain and it's a wide known fact. Every new pundit and radio talk show host is talking about this. The truly sad part about all of this is that Bill's and Hill's legacy will go down in history on a very negative note. She would never become the President because 1/2 of the country doesn't like her and her negative ratings are in the high 60s. I would really be surprised if she is re-elected into the Senate seat by New Yorkers. She is chewing off her nose to spite her face...and more importantly she's setting a very poor example for other women Presidential candidates. Future women canidates will now be put under an intense microscope after this polarizing woman leaves the scene. Hillary has set other women Presidential candidates back another 10-20 years. Shame on you Hillary Clinton, Shame of you! The smart, dignified and educated women are angry with you Hillary! We're angry because this is the most pitiful move that you've made throughout the campaign

Posted by: Kim | May 22, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton is such a looser...I have lost every ounce of respect that I ever had for Billo. I never really cared much for Hillary because I had always heard that she was very disive with a very negative polarizing attitude. I heard this during the time the Bubba was in the White House. This is the main reason why her "Great Healthcare Plan" fell through and was never successful. Hillary doesn't know how to get along. What's more deceitful of Hillary is that she and her campaign along with all of the other candidates signed a Pledge that the "votes in both Florida and Michigan wouldn't count. It was until she realized that she was being beat by a young, black Junior Senator who had obviously mastered how to win the nomination by injecting the American People and his supporters into the campaign process, Hillary then sought out to seat Florida and Michigan. Hillary is using the Florida and Michigan argument for her own personal gain and it's a wide known fact. Every new pundit and radio talk show host is talking about this. The truly sad part about all of this is that Bill's and Hill's legacy will go down in history on a very negative note. She would never become the President because 1/2 of the country doesn't like her and her negative ratings are in the high 60s. I would really be surprised if she is re-elected into the Senate seat by New Yorkers. She is chewing off her nose to spite her face...and more importantly she's setting a very poor example for other women Presidential candidates. Future women canidates will now be put under an intense microscope after this polarizing woman leaves the scene. Hillary has set other women Presidential candidates back another 10-20 years. Shame on you Hillary Clinton, Shame of you! The smart, dignified and educated women are angry with you Hillary! We're angry because this is the most pitiful move that you've made throughout the campaign

Posted by: Kim | May 22, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

The Obama camp blocked the re-vote in FL and MI when they knew that would change the dynamics of the election... Obama would have then lost IN by wider margins and probably crawled to the finish line in NC.

Now his camp is willing to cut a deal... why, because they afraid that if they don't the tide might turn against them... Obama camp has been the one that has been manipulating the public:

(1) A false message of change with out any substance
(2) Playing the race card ever so subtly and accusing the Clintons of playing the race card
(3) Running away from a fight when they know they can't win, FL, MI, KY, WV are examples

What is he going to do in the general election...

Republicans will take the fight to them and slaughter him... the only way they can win is by tearing Obama down and the Obama team has demonstrated over and over again that they can't win a fight.

Posted by: THINK | May 22, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

get informed dude!!!!!!!! Obama and his attorneys are the ones who would not agree to revotes in Michigan or Florida and had threatened to sue the DNC if they seated and counted the Florida and Michigan votes.

Obama supporters who are touted as being so well educated simply just show that the guy is full of hot air - hot air because some of his supporters are just plain old stupid, and hot air because he has no clue as to HOW to get any of the bla bla that he talks about done.

Get real!!!!!!!! He is giving nothing up! Clinton will prevail with the popular vote at the convention - who wants another error like the one made in 2000 putting someone in the White House with no expereience and via the Supreme Court. Gore had the popular vote and Bush filed suit. I will bet that the first words out of Obama's mouth would be that he would take it to the Supreme Court if Clinton has the popular vote and the DNC realizes she is the only one who can beat McCain.

Obama and his people need to understand, the voters rights are first and primary and democratic to count them all. Clinton started right after the New Hampshire primary to fight for the Florida and Michigan votes to count. She had to wait because it set the table for the argument to count the votes in Florida and Michigan since New Hampshire had also moved it's primary up with no penalty. You folks need to understand that this if for the White House and not some person who can only flip-flop from what is said in a debate...to the real world. Guess he needs some further lessons from Clinton!!!!

A vote for Obama is a vote for McCain, a vote for CLinton is a vote for a Democratic White House.

Posted by: THINK | May 22, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse


The Democratic Party can't deny Florida and Michigan participation in the nominating process and hope to win the states in November. It looks like the Florida Republicans have outsmarted the Democrats one more time. The Republican governor and legislature in Florida were responsible for the primary being moved forward. The names of all nominees stayed on the ballot and no candidate officially campaigned in the state. Given that it was not the Florida Democratic Party that moved the election forward but the Republican legislature, the Florida vote should be counted "as is". It is unfair to penalize Florida Democrats for the political maneuvers of the governor and legislature. If Florida isn't seated, and if this problem isn't resolved, the Democratic Party will pay dearly in November.

Posted by: wcowan | May 22, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton has been out manned; out gunned, and out spent 2 and 3 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton.
What has gone on in this election needs to be exposed. Fortunately Hillary Clinton has been able to hold on against this sexism outrage with those repeated dramatic comebacks of Hillary Clinton.
Not only has it been the Good old boys club, of the Grand old party of the DNC! It's been the Good old boys club of the media and its use of sexism disguise in yellow journalism.
This election is being stolen! The media has been bullying Hillary supporters with constant put-downs. Just as they have been interfering by broadcasting that the primaries are over, when they clearly are not. The Super delegates are being paid off and/or bullied by Obama and team as well
Shame on the media for not doing its job! It should be exposing the sexism. Instead of pretending it's not happing to Hillary Clinton and her run for the White House. As if she is the only women in the world that sexism is not happing to. What a joke! You're not going to get away with it just because she happens to be Hillary Clinton.
Try Exposing that the unfair tactics of sexism used by the all male run Media, and the all male run DNC! The all male late nigh TV shows.
Try Exposing that Obama is only ahead by gaming and cheating the caucuses making him look like a stronger candidate then he really is. Try Exposing Hillary Clinton has taken this country and women light years ahead. This must be why she has a movement behind her! And why so many have had to mass an army against her.

Hillary Clinton is one hell of a fighter, one incredible advocate for women around the world, for what is right in this country like universal health care. Obama has to steal her ideas and solutions to even look good. Why I am not surprised that a man with little or no experience instead of a woman with 30 years experience is being put a head by the all male run leadership of the Democratic Party by the Good old boys club.

Posted by: Take it to the Convention in AUG | May 22, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

The power play now staged by the Clintons is absolutely disgusting and has nothing to do with democracy, civil rights, nor sexism. It is yet another demonstration by the Clinton camp of their depravity and insatiable quest for power.

There are rules, people. As a woman, I am embarassed for Hillary Clinton. She is acting like an absolute fool and will take us all down with her if allowed.

Don't let her do this. It is wrong.

Posted by: Susan | May 22, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

She is a menace. Ask yourself this: which is the more unfair scenario, the current one, or the one where the rules are changed at the end to make Clinton win instead of Obama?

This is a straight-up power play. She must lose for the sake of decency.

Posted by: steve boyington | May 22, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

"No question there's a lot of Obama PAID BLOGGERS on this thread"

PAID? How can I get in on this windfall ??

Posted by: Chuckamok | May 22, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Barack has immenseley profited and was given a 'free ride' first few key months by the MISOGYNIST despicably vicious treatment given his female opponent (whom he gave the finger in fulle view of his worshippers, equally juvenile fans in N.C.--see L.A.Times/YouTube's OBAMA GIVES THE F*NGER TO HILLARY!"

Now whey would such an immature candidate who knocked off the ballot via dirty tactics in Chicago his awsome benefactor-mentor, AA SEN.ALICE PALMER, ever be expected to act DEMOCRATICALLY?Rev.Wright was not wrong when he said:

"Barack is just a typical politician...he'll say anything..do anything..." Wise comment! He should know as he,too, was thrown to the waste basket of Barack's high ambitions, without the requisite gravitas...

No wonder he does not want the democratic will of the Floridians to prevail! Like his cousin Odinga, Kenyan President (now-- after a murderous rampage in Dec., rioting, burning churches and raping of hudnreds of children and women) and Sharia Law advocate, he believes in getting Power at any cost. Is this the Hope and Change this empty suit preaches to the Kool-aid crowds thirsty for real change? Power is hte only thing this ARROGANT sexist neophyte understands! The fact the he actively campaigned together with Dick Morris last year for his marxist-islamist cousin Odinga who he knew was proposing SHARIA LAW for Kenyan girls and women and 'chastity provisions' with full cover, should show anyone about his true intentions. He said about Clinton her "claws are comin' out" and "periodically, she gets down in her moods and lashes out at me"...Gee, this is the whinier cry-baby in politics in a long time@

If he doesn't get his own way, this immature highschooler will simply go on stage, give a speech and give the Flip-offing finger of his some exercise! Maybe he's more in tune with the equally vacuous techie, high-salaried birkenstockers he seems to attract in his tent!

Now, would you feel safe giving the keys to your brand new car to your hormonally-challenged teenaged son out on his first date? Then, nominate this unknown, substance-lacking and FLIP-OFFING(Kerry was the FLIP-FLOPPER!) candidate. You might as well vote for Chancey the Gardener. Remember the Peter Sellers 70s movie "Being There" where they mistake an empty suit for a learned wise man and he gets to be president?!! See it...

Posted by: paraskeve | May 22, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Barack has immenseley profited and was given a 'free ride' first few key months by the MISOGYNIST despicably vicious treatment given his female opponent (whom he gave the finger in fulle view of his worshippers, equally juvenile fans in N.C.--see L.A.Times/YouTube's OBAMA GIVES THE F*NGER TO HILLARY!"

Now whey would such an immature candidate who knocked off the ballot via dirty tactics in Chicago his awsome benefactor-mentor, AA SEN.ALICE PALMER, ever be expected to act DEMOCRATICALLY?Rev.Wright was not wrong when he said:

"Barack is just a typical politician...he'll say anything..do anything..." Wise comment! He should know as he,too, was thrown to the waste basket of Barack's high ambitions, without the requisite gravitas...

No wonder he does not want the democratic will of the Floridians to prevail! Like his cousin Odinga, Kenyan President (now-- after a murderous rampage in Dec., rioting, burning churches and raping of hudnreds of children and women) and Sharia Law advocate, he believes in getting Power at any cost. Is this the Hope and Change this empty suit preaches to the Kool-aid crowds thirsty for real change? Power is hte only thing this ARROGANT sexist neophyte understands! The fact the he actively campaigned together with Dick Morris last year for his marxist-islamist cousin Odinga who he knew was proposing SHARIA LAW for Kenyan girls and women and 'chastity provisions' with full cover, should show anyone about his true intentions. He said about Clinton her "claws are comin' out" and "periodically, she gets down in her moods and lashes out at me"...Gee, this is the whinier cry-baby in politics in a long time@

If he doesn't get his own way, this immature highschooler will simply go on stage, give a speech and give the Flip-offing finger of his some exercise! Maybe he's more in tune with the equally vacuous techie, high-salaried birkenstockers he seems to attract in his tent!

Now, would you feel safe giving the keys to your brand new car to your hormonally-challenged teenaged son out on his first date? Then, nominate this unknown, substance-lacking and FLIP-OFFING(Kerry was the FLIP-FLOPPER!) candidate. You might as well vote for Chancey the Gardener. Remember the Peter Sellers 70s movie "Being There" where they mistake an empty suit for a learned wise man and he gets to be president?!! See it...

Posted by: paraskeve | May 22, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Oboma's people say votes where Hillary won by landslide counts are meaningless. Florida, where both candidates were on the ballot and Hillary won, well he deserves half the delegates. Wow, hanging chads not withstanding I am sorry for the folks in States where they either don't count or can be taken away just because.

Posted by: Interesting | May 22, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Hillary - Re: seating delegations -

Q: Where was your outrage on disenfranchised voters at the time of the decision?

A: Let me help - you never dreamed you'd need every stinking vote

Posted by: KenF | May 22, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Democrats...lets support democracy. We put a process in place to decide what is fair and just..let the process play itself out. Hillary or Obama did not control what the Republican controlled state government did in Florida. They had no choice in the matter. But it is not fair to elect a President on 48 state votes. We have 50 states. If Hillary chooses to fight on until the end..more power to her..this is Democracy. All politicians should be so committed to fighting for the voters. Neither the pundits, media or naysayers can hold her down...thank God for that!

Posted by: Hope | May 22, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

It is pretty obvious to me an Englishman who follows the US political scene very closely, that from the outset the previous failed candidates who are now running the Democratic party dislike the Clintons and will do anything to stop Hilary Clinton being the Democratic candidate. Not to count the votes of Florida and Michigan is a disgrace and an affront to democracy.The whole system is crazy each state allocating delegates their way i.e. some winner take all and in others proportionate. Some states even allow persons who are not members to vote - crazy. Any intelligent person would expect the Democratic party to only allow paid up members to vote and for delegates to be allocated in the same way. If I was a republican in such a state that allows non members to vote I would vote Obama because he has not the hope of a snowballs chance in hell of becoming your President. For a start your population is too racist to allow it. This half-caste man(for that is what he is, never mind all the howling from the PC brigade) who only talks about his black half has been guilty of racism by going after the Black vote by playing on his Blackness and pushing his White half into the shadows. What sort of idiots in a political party allow opposition people to vote in their primary election? There maybe things wrong with our system but I am glad to say we do not have mutton heads running our parties who would do such a stupid thing! If by a freak accident Obama did become President the rest of the western world should start digging their shelters as he is sworn in, for as sure as eggs are eggs this midget in foreign affairs will make the wrong decisions and lead us into a very difficult position possibly world war 3. As much as I hate to say it, if Obama is the Democrats undemocratic choice, vote for McCain as Obama is all froth and no beer as we say here. I fear appeasement concerning radical Muslims where Obama is concerned. I am surprised that he states he is a Christian as he was born into the Muslim religion. As I understand it a Muslim taking up another religion can be killed for doing so! Watch out for the crazy fundalmentalist Barak! I am very sorry that Kennedy has a brain tumour. I would not wish that on my worst enemy. Maybe his endorsement of Obama should be suspect as in my own family a brain tunour made my family member forgetful, bad tempered and unable to think things out. I repeat those Democrats who are refusing to count all the votes cast and/or made such stupid rules on who could vote should be considered as enemies of the state. With these idiots as friends you do not need any enemies. Whatever happens turn out in November and vote. I used to have a car sticker that said 'Don't blame me, I did not vote for her' (Margaret Thatcher)Hopefully you will not need a sticker that says ' Blame me, I voted for the smooth no policies Obama'

Posted by: Terryllb | May 22, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Ladies and Gentlemen:

The future, the destiny of this great nation relies in the hands of only one person, a person who is a fighter, a leader like none before, a President that will not only fight for the American people but will finally change the way this government is run. A change for the betterment of each American, the economy, healthcare, the war in Iraq, terrorism, foreign policy, the oil crisis, a global leader that is recognized and respected worldwide: we, the American people have the great pleasure of introducing to you, the next President of these United States, your President, Hillary Clinton!
The American people have spoken!

Posted by: Voters of America Have Spoken! | May 22, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Hillary--Rub the end of your thumb with the tip of your index finger. You know what that is? It's the world's smallest violin, and it's playing just for you.

Posted by: gmundenat | May 22, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Rules mean nothing if they are changed every time someone does not like them. Clinton is self-serving and basically trying to cheat her way to the nomination. The DNC leadership needs to step up and take charge - as is their job. All these calls to "count the votes" seem just slimy to me. This is a fairness issue, and simply "counting the votes" is not fair as anyone with a conscience can see.

But if you all are hellbent on changing the rules, then I alternatively propose we change the rules to make the primaries winner-take-all affairs, change the legal voting age to 60, and allow cats and dogs to vote (their barks and meows need to be heard). In that case, we could REALLY guarantee a Clinton "victory". These alternative rules are just as fair as what Clinton proposed.

Posted by: Brian | May 22, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

order organic vegetable and herb seeds from www.organicaseed.com thank you

Posted by: joe | May 22, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

the clintons are fools only out for themselves and should leave the country alone.

Posted by: jim | May 22, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Hillary agreed to the rules because she thought that she was the presumptive and "entitled" winner....then, true to her reputation, she wanted to change the rules several times to benefit herself. This is not about the voters in her mind, it is about the power she thinks she deserves. Many of us disagree with her assessment and many of us think that Obama will be a really great President. Quit Hillary while you are still well thought of in many quarters.

Posted by: Patricia C. Gilbert | May 22, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

In doing what they did to us Floridians, the Dumb-ocrats have probably forfeited the State in November. Maybe Shrillary should forget about it. It's her fault, too. I'm a Democrat. I'm going to vote for McCain.

Posted by: Old Doc | May 22, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

In doing what they did to us Floridians, the Dumb-ocrats have probably forfeited the State in November. Maybe Shrillary should forget about it. It's her fault, too. I'm a Democrat. I'm going to vote for McCain.

Posted by: Old Doc | May 22, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

In doing what they did to us Floridians, the Dumb-ocrats have probably forfeited the State in November. Maybe Shrillary should forget about it. It's her fault, too. I'm a Democrat. I'm going to vote for McCain.

Posted by: Old Doc | May 22, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

The DNC Rules and the people running it are mostly flawed. Dean, Donna Brazille, Pelosi, etc. are just clowns and nothing else.

It's very obvious that they're rigging the system in favor of Obama from the beginning. First they're saying that the Super delegates should vote the will of the people but now that Hillary is winning a lot more districts than Obama, Super delegates are now encouraged to vote their conscience. However, there's a catch, and that is only if they're voting for Obama.

Additionally by putting restrictions on the Florida and Michigan votes with both states clearly leaning towards Hillary, the DNC ensured that Obama wins the nomination. Imagine the momentum that these WINS will create if these votes were not suppressed. How about the money contribution advantage?

Also, what kind of a system is there that will allocate equal number of delegates between 2 very different states, a good example of which is Pennsylvania, a huge battleground state VS. IDAHO, a red state.

Idaho has a total of about 16,500 votes cast with Obama getting 12,000 votes and end up getting 12 delegates and Hillary with 3,000 votes and 3 delegates from the 15 total..

VS.

Pennsylvania with a total of 2.3 million votes cast and a margin of 214,000 votes wherein Hillary got only 12 Net delegate advantage from a total of 158 - H85 =O75 .)

This is INSANITY!!!

Let's go to the convention. Anything short of that is not DEMOCRACY!!!


Posted by: The Wiser Voter | May 22, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

derek & ann

Kennedy took the campaign to the convention and even though the party survived Jimmy Carter didn't. Seems that is exactly what Hillary wants to do to Obama.

Posted by: Ken | May 22, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

The System including Resolution of Disputes at Convention the was put into placed for a reason.

Since this is a very CLOSE RACE, in FAIRNESS if Hillary chooses to exercise that choice, she has every right to do it.

SUPER DELEGATES' endorsements are not official votes. They only get counted once these endorsements are translated into votes once they're actually CAST.

SO LET'S STOP THE WHINING, LET IT PLAY OUT AND LET'S GO TO THE CONVENTION!!! IT WILL BE A HELL OF AN EXPERIENCE FOR EVERYBODY...

Posted by: The Wiser Voter | May 22, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

I am not a fan of either Obama or Hillary but I will say this. Hillary is the biggest lier this planet has ever seen. She will spew anything that she thinks will help her. She did say in the beginning that the votes in Florida and Michigan would not count. That was when she thought she was going to walk away with the whole shebang on Super Tuesday. I can guarantee that if that had been the case we would not be hearing anything now about the votes in these two states. I will also say that yes they should be counted but I have felt that way from day 1.

Posted by: Jo | May 22, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

No question there's a lot of Obama PAID BLOGGERS on this thread exchanging talking points between themselves. Hah, hah!!!

The Democratic Party is screwing this up again by CROWNING a weaker candidate in Obama.

COUNT THE VOTES!!!

We've been a long time Democrats but I just don't see how Obama will have a chance of winning this against McCain this FALL. His speeches and rhetorics are getting old and monotonous already. And his inexperienced specially on National Security is getting more pronounced day after day. Or shall we call them FLIP-FLOPS, FLIP-FLOPS, FLIP-FLOPS....

The guy is nothing but a duplicate of Jeremiah Wright trying to sound different but deep inside of him, he doesn't believe what he says.

This Country's problem is too huge to put a ROOKIE in the White House. SPIN, SPIN, SPIN and MORE SPIN PLEASE...

Posted by: The Wiser Voter | May 22, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

No question there's a lot of Obama PAID BLOGGERS on this thread exchanging talking points between themselves. Hah, hah!!!

The Democratic Party is screwing this up again by CROWNING a weaker candidate in Obama.

COUNT THE VOTES!!!

We've been a long time Democrats but I just don't see how Obama will have a chance of winning this against McCain this FALL. His speeches and rhetorics are getting old and monotonous already. And his inexperienced specially on National Security is getting more pronounced day after day. Or shall we call them FLIP-FLOPS, FLIP-FLOPS, FLIP-FLOPS....

The guy is nothing but a duplicate of Jeremiah Wright trying to sound different but deep inside of him, he doesn't believe what he says.

This Country's problem is too huge to put a ROOKIE in the White House. SPIN, SPIN, SPIN and MORE SPIN PLEASE...

Posted by: The Wiser Voter | May 22, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

It is highly hypocritical that no matter what happens to the Florida and Michigan delegates, Clinton will be behinf, yet she thinks she should be the nominee. If she doesn't get her way, she says she will go to Denver and challenge on the convention florr. so if she still loses she still won't quit. I guess this is called not accepting majority rule. The contest is measured by delegates. He has the most. Count the caucus votes and he is ahead in popular vote.She cites the injustice of the Florida 2000 count and then wants to change the rules in the middle of the game to suit her. She cites sexism for her downfall, but what part of the Bosnia flap was sexism?What part of expecting to be crowned nominee without going to the caucus states and the smaller states and losing the delegate count is sexism?What part of not liking 2 congenital liars like the Clintons is sexist?

Posted by: LetthemdrinkCrownRoyal | May 22, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

lclon:

She is not seeking to change the rules, but rather one specific (and preliminary) "ruling" that took away 100% of the delegates when the RULES provide for a 50% penalty. If she objects to that May 31st decision by the Rules Committee, she is entitled to appeal the decision to the Credentials Committee. If she wants to take the fight all the way to the Convention floor, she can do that too. All of that is "following the rules" already in place.

BTW: Ted Kennedy took the fight to the Conventional floor and he was 800 delegates behind Carter. That didn't "ruin" the Democratic Party, did it?

Posted by: JakeD | May 22, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Thank you, Dr. Anti-disinformation -- but any Republican could have voted for Obama in Maryland just by registering "Democrat" before the deadline ; )

Posted by: JakeD | May 22, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Neither Florida or Michigan abided by the DNC rules and went ahead and held their voting early, thereby, the votes were not valid. You have to play by the rules. Let the DNC determine what to do with the two states electoral votes on May 31st. Clinton wants to break the rules. How can we have a potential president who does not want to abide by rules. This government is a nation that has rules for all citizens to abide by including presidential candidates. Let's get real and do what's right. I'm sure the DNC will come out with a fair decision in allocating the electorial votes.

Posted by: lclon | May 22, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Maryland. Had. A. Closed. Primary.

I. Know. Because. I. Voted. In. It.

My. Wife. Is. A. Registered. Independent. Her. Sample. Ballot. Had. Only. The. School. Board. Race. On. It.

Can. I. Be. Any. Clearer?

Posted by: Dr. Anti-disinformation | May 22, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

I cannot believe the Florida and Michigan thing is still being pounded by Clinton.
Desparate people do desparate things I guess. PLEASE go away Hillary, people wonder if Obama will be damaged by the time this reaches the convention, and if he is it is because of you and your disgusting underhanded schemes. You and "Old Bill" are getting pretty pathetic.

Posted by: Maureen3 | May 22, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

It's quite obvious a lot of posts here are from neo-cons attempting to hi-jack democracy even more than they have. American government needs change. America is run by Corporate America and their puppets in Washington. A vote for McCain and Hillary is a vote for the same ol' same ol'. Just ask yourself why McCain would prefer to run against Hillary!
Only Barack has said he would appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the Bush Administrations war crimes. McCain has a problem with that concept, maybe Hillary does too.

Posted by: edmund | May 22, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

First, Hillary held a "victory" rally in Florida, claiming a "win" where there was no contest. Then,she flip-flopped on her prior position that FL and MI votes should not count.

Her claims to the results in these states are spurious, whether or not Obama was onthe ballot. When you are a Clinton, with a background of the presidency and decades in the public eye, of course you will get the most votes when your opponent has not campaigned.

So let the delegates come to Denver and divide the votes evenly.

homer www.altara.blogspot.com

Posted by: Homer Hewitt | May 22, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Clinton's people wrote the rules and now she now wants to change them because she can't win if she abides by them. This is called cheating. She didn't care one whit about Fla and Mich votes when she thought she could win the race without them. Now, suddenly, she cares. Please. Clinton is trying to steal this nomination from Sen. Obama, and she doesn't care what happens to the party in the process.

But it won't work. Obama will win. And, in losing ugly, Clinton will unmask herself and Bill, leaving a sour legacy of purely self-interested political opportunism.

Posted by: chouteau | May 22, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

There are rules, then there are the Clinton rules. Somehow or other, she sounds more and more like Dubya.

Posted by: CLG | May 22, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse


Hillary has gone hysterical. She AGREED not to count FL and MI.

Now that she is desperate, she just cares about them SO MUCH!!! Sorry, but I don't think even her most deadend supporters are STUPID enough not to see through that - even in Florida. Yes, EVEN in Florida!

Go away, Hillary. There is dignity in losing with grace. This is not it.

Posted by: sequoia | May 22, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

True, english teacher. So true. All it takes is one gaffe to taint a Republican for life. The political establishment never let Dan Quayle live down his fateful misspelling of "potatoe." The New York Times distorted and misreported the first President Bush's questions about new scanner technology at a grocers convention to brand him permanently as out of touch. But what about Barack Obama?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 22, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

To Lynn Parker:
While I respect your right to publish your opinions on this blog, I am offended by your profanity and use of "G**D***.
I'm no choirboy, or right winger, and occasionally use profanity myself. But your usage is particularly offensive.

Posted by: easyenough | May 22, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

From Paris, let me tell Democrstes This, this election is not about WOMAN, It is about vision and leadership. Do not try to force a WOMAN to rich the White House. It clear that isn't the right time for a WOMAN. Let thing happen naturally, maybe Chelsey will be, if the denomination of the state become a Kingdom. Clintons lead their Campain in a wrong direction, as a leader she will pay the consequences. this election is not about gender neither race. and that one of the biggest mistake that leadinf her to Dim.She rise those problem to hang in knowing that hamper the margin is mathematically impossible.
Thanks
America for your fairness

Posted by: Roger | May 22, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

I think Obama's "elite, educated" supporters need to go back to elementary school to learn to read, write, listen, speak, and do basic math.

Barack Obama -- promoted by the left and the media as an all-knowing, articulate, transcendent Messiah -- is a walking, talking gaffe machine. How many more passes does he get? How many more can we afford?

A few things this gifted speaker has told crowds lately:

• Last May, he claimed that tornadoes in Kansas killed a whopping 10,000 people: "In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died -- an entire town destroyed." The actual death toll: 12.

• Earlier this month in Oregon, he redrew the map of the United States: "Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go."

• Last week, in front of a roaring Sioux Falls, S.D., audience, Obama exulted: "Thank you, Sioux City. . . . I said it wrong. I've been in Iowa for too long. I'm sorry."

• Explaining last week why he was trailing Hillary Clinton in Kentucky, Obama again botched basic geography: "Senator Clinton, I think, is much better known, coming from a nearby state of Arkansas. So it's not surprising that she would have an advantage in some of those states in the middle." On what map is Arkansas closer to Kentucky than Illinois?

• Obama has as much trouble with numbers as he has with maps. Last March, on the anniversary of the Bloody Sunday march in Selma, Ala., he claimed his parents united as a direct result of the civil rights movement:

"There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Alabama, because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born."

Obama was born in 1961. The Selma march took place in 1965. His spokesman, Bill Burton, later explained that Obama was "speaking metaphorically about the civil rights movement as a whole."

• Earlier this month in Cape Girardeau, Mo., Obama showed off his knowledge of the war in Afghanistan by homing in on a lack of translators: "We only have a certain number of them, and if they are all in Iraq, then it's harder for us to use them in Afghanistan." The real reason it's "harder for us to use them" in Afghanistan: Iraqis speak Arabic or Kurdish. The Afghans speak Pashto, Farsi or other non-Arabic languages.

• Over the weekend in Oregon, Obama pleaded ignorance of the decades-old, multibillion-dollar massive Hanford nuclear waste cleanup:

"Here's something that you will rarely hear from a politician, and that is that I'm not familiar with the Hanford, uuuuhh, site, so I don't know exactly what's going on there. (Applause.) Now, having said that, I promise you I'll learn about it by the time I leave here on the ride back to the airport."

I assume on that ride, a staffer reminded him that he's voted on at least one defense authorization bill that addressed the "costs, schedules and technical issues" dealing with the nation's most contaminated nuclear waste site.

• Last March, the Chicago Tribune reported this little-noticed nugget about a fake autobiographical detail in Obama's "Dreams From My Father":

"Then, there's the copy of Life magazine that Obama presents as his racial awakening at age 9. In it, he wrote, was an article and two accompanying photographs of an African-American man physically and mentally scarred by his efforts to lighten his skin. In fact, the Life article and the photographs don't exist, say the magazine's own historians."

• And in perhaps the most seriously troubling set of gaffes of them all, Obama told a Portland crowd over the weekend that Iran doesn't "pose a serious threat to us" -- cluelessly arguing that "tiny countries" with small defense budgets can't do us harm -- and then promptly flip-flopped the next day, claiming, "I've made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave."

Again, how many more 'free passes' does this eloquent, gifted speaker get????

Posted by: English teacher | May 22, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Obama is the man who will save the planet from the greedy white people. And the time for Africa and black liberation is NOW. Florida loves Obama just like all the other states, so give it up, Mrs. Clinton. YOu don't have a chance. Obama will stop the war and make pease with our brothers in the Middle East and the rest of the world too. Hillary saids shes going to bomb afganistn and iran and thats just not cool with us. Obama is the next president and he will restore justice and economic equality. ANd end Bush's war against the musilim brothers. And STOP SUPPORTING THE JEWS.

Posted by: Tyreef | May 22, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

HILLARY STAY WITH IT. THERE ARE THOUSANDS, MILLIONS , WHO WANT AND NEED YOU

IF THE MEDIA WANTS TO BE ONE BIG RAG, THE HELL WITH THEM! YOU HAVE MY VOTE AND MORE VOTES THAN WHAT BO(THATS BAD ODOR) OBAMA THINKS. mY HEART AND MY STOMACH TURN OVER JUST WITH THE THOUGHT OF NOT HAVING YOU OUR MADAME PRESIDENT. STAY WITH IT HILLARY. CANT SAY IT TOO MANY TIMES!!!!!!

Posted by: LYNN PARKER | May 22, 2008 8:22 AM | Report abuse

"The record suggests that if Clinton is not the nominee, no woman will seriously contend for the White House for another generation." - writes Marie Cocco elsewhere in today's WaPo.

Awwwwwww ... women will be SO traumatized by widdle Hill's thrashing by the Big Bad Boys yadda yadda yadda.

Marie figgers that blatant sexism is masked by those claiming not to reject women, just THAT woman.

Well I got news Marie: rejecting Hill-Bot for who she is is legitimate, no feminist mewling needed.

The Clintons are trailer trash personified, and good riddance to 'em.

Posted by: Chuckamok | May 22, 2008 8:03 AM | Report abuse


Hillary Clinton own words show that she agreed with the punishment handed out to Florida and Michigan. While it was a stupid decision...the rules are the rules. She also claimed that she did not give the Bush administration with her yes vote the authority to go to war...despite a dirct quote from her afterwards that shows that is exactly what she thought she was doing. She voted for the war to ensure that she looked tough on national security, just like many other Democrats, so that they could ensure their electability. Clinton doesn't care about all the young women and men being maimed an killed in Iraq. If she did she would quit trying to create a feminist devide in the party and unite the Democratic Party. Clinton cares about one thing...and that is the history books saying "Hillary Clinton was the first woman". It is just pain sad!

Posted by: noreen | May 22, 2008 7:07

Noreen. No disrespect for you. But the rules are the rules WERE NOT OK in Nurenberg!! People have consciences, and they need to follow them. So the evil and corrupt rules of the NAZI party should not have been followed. Hence the Nazi death camp workers were found guilty of war crimes. And similarly Howard Dean, John Edwards, Obama and the DNC Insiders HAVE BEEN FOUND GUILTY of Crimes against American Democracy.

They should admit their crimes and ask forgiveness. Many Americans are very forgiving. But by not admitting their mistakes they are compounding their problems, and guaranteeing that McCain (and the Republicans) will win the election in November. The only chance the Democratic party has is for the votes and voices of Michigan and Florida voters to be counted and the delegates from Michigan and Florida be allocated by Michigan and Florida Democrats, AND NOT BY EITHER HILLARY OR OBAMA. And Howard Dean, John Edwards and the DNC Insiders should all resign IMMEDIATELY. They have DONE VERY MUCH DAMAGE NOT ONLY TO THE Democratic Party, but also to the Reputation of the USA. The whole world cannot believe the NOT Counting of the Votes in Michigan and Florida. It makes the USA look like a 4th world country.

So count the votes and seat the delegates from Michigan and Florida. And Obama, John Edwards, Howard Dean, Hillary and the DNC Insiders need to let the Democratic Parties in both Michigan and Florida do their jobs, and keep their bloody fingers, voices, and hands out of Michigan's and Florida's business!!

Posted by: Aussie2020 | May 22, 2008 7:57 AM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton own words show that she agreed with the punishment handed out to Florida and Michigan. While it was a stupid decision...the rules are the rules. She also claimed that she did not give the Bush administration with her yes vote the authority to go to war...despite a dirct quote from her afterwards that shows that is exactly what she thought she was doing. She voted for the war to ensure that she looked tough on national security, just like many other Democrats, so that they could ensure their electability. Clinton doesn't care about all the young women and men being maimed an killed in Iraq. If she did she would quit trying to create a feminist devide in the party and unite the Democratic Party. Clinton cares about one thing...and that is the history books saying "Hillary Clinton was the first woman". It is just pain sad!

Posted by: noreen | May 22, 2008 7:07 AM | Report abuse

If Hillary Clinton cared soooo much about the voters in Fl & MI, Why didn't she say something about her concerns at the beganning? Why did she sign and agree with the other candidates that these primaries would not count? It was until she needed the count now she is making this an issue this is worse than the "snipper fire" LIE, if Sen Obama needed these votes DO YOU THINK SHE WOULD BE MAKING AN ISSUE ABOUT THIS AT THIS TIME? No she would not!!! They would be demanding his exit, I'm sick of the Clintons I have no respect for her, I wish she would just go on a long vacation.

Posted by: gtalkspolitics | May 22, 2008 6:49 AM | Report abuse

Total rubbish, poppycock and misinformation. Obama, Howard Dean, DNC Insiders, John Edwards are TRYING to highjack Democracy in the USA, like the Nazis tried to in Germany (and they were successful and look what happened). So just SAY NO TO Obama, Howard Dean, John Edwards and the DNC Insiders. The votes will be counted in November!!

Now to refute the MISINFORMATION and LIES by the DNC Insiders, Obama, John Edwards, Howard Dean and ...
Just in case anyone cares about the real facts
(Misinformation and propaganda from DNC Insiders!!) from us loyal dems (OBAMA supporters in Michigan, more like it!!) in Michigan...

* It was "superdelegates" who supported Clinton who moved the primary up in violation of the rules
(whose rules? the DNC Insiders rules! Each state has a FREE, INDEPENDENT and UNBIASED Democratic party. It is like the USA and the EU, and there is not DICTATOR of the USA and the EU, LIKE THERE IS THE DNC (Howard Dean is a DICTATOR, but the Majority of Michigan Democrats who voted overwhelmingly for Hillary, DO NOT ACCEPT HOWARD DEAN AND DNC INSIDERS MAKING RULES FOR THEM, ...)

, and who told her to keep her name on the ballot when all the other major candidates removed theirs. FALSE. IT WAS THE MILLIONS OF MICHIGAN DEMOCRATS WHO WANTED TO VOTE FOR HILLARY WHO TOLD HER TO KEEP HER NAME ON THE BALLOT!! THIS IS A FACT. The other is a LIE, Misinformation, like weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq: A lie.


* It was the Michigan County Clerks who nixed all hope of a repeat primary. ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO SINCE THE PEOPLE HAVE VOTED. ONLY HOWARD DEAN, OBAMA, JOHN EDWARDS and the DNC INSIDERS HAVE NOT ACCEPTED THE RESULTS FROM MICHIGAN. And who really cares. The American People, not Howard Dean, John Edwards, Obama and the DNC Insiders, DECIDE. Howard Dean is a dictator and so is Obama. Do we want to DICTATOR like Obama. NO WAY!! He should go to South Africa where they want dictators, but in the USA we want leaders who respect the votes and voices of the people. Clearly Obama and Howard Dean DO NOT RESPECT THE PEOPLE and VOTES OF THE PEOPLE FROM BOTH MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA!!

.... because they did not have the staff and equipment to conduct a short-notice election on top of the Michigan school elections in May (ballot boxes and machines have to be sequestered following an election in case of challenges).
NO NEED FOR A SECOND ELECTION. The people who wanted to vote voted. NOW JUST COUNT the votes, and allocate the delegates. Since Obama TOOK HIS NAME off the Ballot, he got no votes. So no delegates. The uncommitted votes should be allocated to the candidates who appeared on the ballot. You CANNOT allocate delegates to someone who was not on the ballot BY HIS/HER OWN CHOICE!!


* It was Clinton's "superdelegates" who blocked Michigan caucuses to allow all Michigan Democrats to vote in a way that actually counted.
RUBBISH, POPPYCOCK and MISINFORMATION. They can be counted. IT IS ONLY!! Howard Dean, Obama, John Edwards and the DNC Insiders who are not counting the votes. IN THE REST OF THE WORLD THE NUMBERS ARE BEING PUBLISHED AND REPORTED. The whole world sees the DICTATORSHIP OF Howard Dean. The whole world sees HOW UNDEMOCRATIC THE DNC (ANC) is!!

* Write-in ballots for Obama in the Michigan primary were disqualified, not counted.
OBAMA TOOK HIS NAME OFF THE BALLOT VOLUNTARILY!!
He could have been on the ballot. So blame the REAL PERSON RESPONSIBLE, OBAMA, John Edwards, Howard Dean and the DNC INSIDERS!! They thought they could DICTATE For Michigan, but they FOUND OUT THAT THEY COULD NOT. Just like the Sunni Muslims in Iraq during the elections. The have accepted that they made a mistake. The Sunnis are bigger men and women than Obama, Howard Dean, John Edwards and the DNC Insiders. Obama needs to call his friends in Iraq and ask them how to learn to accept ones errors and to admit he has made a mistake. This is Obama's biggest failing, he is unable to ADMIT HE MADE A MISTAKE in following BLINDLY Howard Dean, John Edwards and the DNC Insiders!!

* Lots of Michigan Democrats at the behest of various Democratic party supporters crossed over and voted against McCain in the Republican primary, in the hope of getting an easier-to-beat candidate. This because they were told that the Democratic primary would not count.
The blind lead the blind. They should not be rewarded for their evil acts and attempts to injure Democratic Principles in the USA. They should all lose their right to votes!! They are evil and ANTI-American. It is not a sporting event, and it is NOT win at all costs, like the DNC Insiders, Obama, John Edwards and Howard Dean have made it out to be. It is being American. And being American means counting ALL OF THE VOTES.
No more disenfranchising women, blacks, Native American Indians, asians, hispanics, ... We are all Americans and ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE OUR VOTES COUNTED and reported in the PRESS. The DNC has NO authority and power over the Democratic and votes in Michigan (And Florida).

* Clinton claims half of the "uncommitted" delegates from the Michigan primary, even though those votes were really for "anybody but Clinton".
Rubbish, poppycock and MISINFORMATION. UNCOMMITTED , means uncommitted. Look it up in the dictionary. It does NOT MEAN Obama, Edwards, ... It only means Uncommitted.

* Clinton also, in claiming she's won the popular vote, assumes that NOBODY in Michigan wanted to vote for Obama.
That is not true. Again lies, rubbish, poppycock and misinformation. Obama took his name off the ballot. You cannot vote for someone who does not want votes!! Those uncommitted could have voted for Al Gore, Bill Clinton, ... But they too were not on the ballot. Obama's supporters ONLY HAVE HOWARD DEAN, John Edwards, Obama and the DNC Insiders to blame. If Obama was A MAN and was willing to STAND UP TO HOWARD DEAN and the DNC INSIDERS (who are trying to usurp the WILL AND RIGHTS OF MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA VOTES) he would have kept his name on the ballot. Why did he keep his name on the ballot in Florida, but not in Michigan!! Quite simple, since he knew he would have got very few votes. The Uncommitted would have voted for John Edwards and very very few for Obama. This is why Howard Dean and the DNC Insiders asked BOTH John Edwards and Obama to take their names off the ballot in Michigan. They are both EVIL and UNDEMOCRATIC. They are hypocrites and WE ALL KNOW HOW CORRUPT THEY ARE!! They have been exposed for what they ARE!! Evil and corrupt
and followers of the DNC Insiders and Howard Dean.
Hillary is a representative of the American People as she should be, as an elected official. John Edwards and Obama are loyal to the DNC Insiders, Howard Dean and Special Interests and the MEDIA which have MADE THEM!! Yes, they are creations of the DNC Insiders, Special interests and the Media.
Hillary R. Clinton on the other hand is for real!! She has proven herself, as has McCain. Time for an end to the DNC Insiders' influence on the Democratic parties in all 50 states, like in Michigan and Florida.

*There is a pending grassroots (DNC INSIDERS, Howard Dean, John Edwards, and Obama) rules challenge in the Michigan Democratic Party and the DNC which would disqualify ALL Michigan superdelegates (only fair because they created this mess)
IT IS NOT A MESS. It is DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES winning out over DNC Insiders and Party Politics.
It is as AMERICAN AS IT GETS. Americans do not accept others (Howard Dean, John Edwards, Obama and the DNC Insiders telling them what to do!!).

*... and seat half of the Michigan delegation. Because Clintons apparently sent campaign mailings in the state, the rules challenge would disqualify her delegates, leaving the delegates to be selected by Democrats at county caucuses.
Caucuses!! Ya right. DNC Insiders. They are evil and corrupt. They are TRYING TO HIGHJACK Democratic Principles, ONE man/woman, One vote.
They should be thrown in PRISON!! Anti-American.
Treason against the American Constituion. One man one vote. The Caucuses as like the Nazi meetings.
They should be OUTLAWED. Open primary where PEOPLE VOTE!! One man one vote!!

*Very fair and reasonable.
RUBBISH, POPPYCOCK, LIES, Misinformation and Propaganda. NO DEMOCRACY other then the DNC so-called Democracy allows a small number of Insiders (DNC Run Caucuses) to choose for the Millions of Registered Voters!!

So, naturally, Clintons oppose it.
AND SHE SHOULD. So do I and so do the Millions of Michigan, Florida, California, Texas, New York, Pennsylvania, West Virigina, New Hampshire, Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, .... VOTERS WHO WENT TO VOTE AND EXPECT TO HAVE THEIR VOTES COUNTED!!

*I was a Clinton supporter (Well not a True one. You have exposed yourself by your words. What we call a fair weather fan. Someone who runs when the enemy advances and leaves his wounded buddy for the enemies. Who abandons his wife and children, ...)

*but I'm now convinced she has no scruples,
YOU HAVE No Scruples and your are PROJECTING YOUR OWN CHARACTER FLAWS onto Hillary. I would recommend that you go see a shrink and address your loyalty problems.

*and is out to destroy the Democratic party's chances this year.
The DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS BEEN DESTROYED ALREADY BY HOWARD Dean, John Edwards, Obama and the DNC Insiders with their Iowa caucuses, disenfranchising millions of voters in Michigan and Florida. THERE IS NO PRECEDENT IN ANY!! Western and Modern Democracy to Disenfranchise millions of voters like Obama, John Edwards, Howard Dean and the DNC Insiders ARE TRYING TO DO. Hillary is DEFENDING THE RIGHTS, FREEDOMS, VOTES and VOICES of Michigan and Florida (many Florida voters voted for Obama) voters and AMERICAN CITIZENS!!
...
Posted by: Bob | May 22, 2008 1:58 AM

It is time for Obama, Howard Dean, John Edward and the DNC Insiders to ADMIT THEY MADE A HUGE MISTAKE. Then they should ask forgiveness from all of the Michigan and Florida voters. Then they should count all the votes and allocate the delegates based on the votes received by Obama and Hillary. The uncommitted votes should be allocated to the candidates who appeared on the ballot. It is impossible to allocate delegates to a person who did not appear on the ballot. Uncommitted, means uncommitted to the candidates available. They should be selected randomly from a pool of registered Democratic voters in Michigan who voted in the Democratic primary.

So in summary, a lot of misinformation, lies, poppycock, rubbish is being given. The truth is Obama, John Edwards, Howard Dean and the DNC Insiders have screwed things up. It is up to them to be MEN and admit that they messed up big time, ask forgiveness and count the votes, and allocate the delegates based on the percentage of votes received by the candidates who participated. You cannot win a game unless you play/participate. The Sunni Muslims learned this when they boycotted the elections in Iraq. They admitted their mistake. John Edwards and Obama did the same, by boycotting the election in Michigan. It is time for them BOTH TO BE MEN and OWN UP TO IT!! Stop blaming Hillary. They are acting like two spoiled brats. Their Mums need to take them both over their knees and give them a good trashing. Also their Mums need to teach them both how to treat and respect Women. Their behavior brings disrespect both their parents. They need to learn to take responsibility for their actions and stop blaming Hillary and others.

Hillary R. Clinton, the People's choice.

Posted by: Aussie2020 | May 22, 2008 6:43 AM | Report abuse

Just in case anyone cares about the real facts from us loyal dems in Michigan...

* It was "superdelegates" who supported Clinton who moved the primary up in violation of the rules, and who told her to keep her name on the ballot when all the other major candidates removed theirs.

* It was the Michigan County Clerks who nixed all hope of a repeat primary, because they did not have the staff and equipment to conduct a short-notice election on top of the Michigan school elections in May (ballot boxes and machines have to be sequestered following an election in case of challenges).

* It was Clinton's "superdelegates" who blocked Michigan caucuses to allow all Michigan Democrats to vote in a way that actually counted.

* Write-in ballots for Obama in the Michigan primary were disqualified, not counted.

* Lots of Michigan Democrats at the behest of various Democratic party supporters crossed over and voted against McCain in the Republican primary, in the hope of getting an easier-to-beat candidate. This because they were told that the Democratic primary would not count.

* Clinton claims half of the "uncommitted" delegates from the Michigan primary, even though those votes were really for "anybody but Clinton".

* Clinton also, in claiming she's won the popular vote, assumes that NOBODY in Michigan wanted to vote for Obama.

There is a pending grassroots rules challenge in the Michigan Democratic Party and the DNC which would disqualify ALL Michigan superdelegates (only fair because they created this mess) and seat half of the Michigan delegation. Because Clintons apparently sent campaign mailings in the state, the rules challenge would disqualify her delegates, leaving the delegates to be selected by Democrats at county caucuses. Very fair and reasonable. So, naturally, Clintons oppose it.

I was a Clinton supporter, but I'm now convinced she has no scruples, and is out to destroy the Democratic party's chances this year. The race-baiting, gender-baiting, 3 a.m. fearmongering and now ridiculous reference to "dimpled chads" is just George W. of a different gender.

Time for someone to show her the exit.
***************
These are not FACTS, they are lies.
You don't need a college degree to figure out who needed to play the race card and who didn't. Hillary Clinton had the black voters before South Carolina and Barak Obama needed the black vote, so he played the race card to get the blacks on his side, faxing a list of "racially sensitive words like fairy-tale" to the Huffington Post. Use your common sense.

Barak Obama did a mass mailout of postcards in Michigan telling people to vote "uncommitted". Why would Hillary need uncommitted, her name was already on the ballot? Use common sense and check for facts, you obviously haven't. It seems that you are quite quick to judge instead of checking for REAL facts - go to factcheck.org

Posted by: Gorgegirl | May 22, 2008 5:28 AM | Report abuse

Hillary,
In the whole world the votes in Michigan and Florida are being counted. It is ONLY the American Press which is not reporting the Total Vote Count from All Primaries. It appears that the DNC Insiders, Howard Dean, John Edwards and Obama have much more influence for the PRESS in the USA, even more the President Bush. Kind of strange now a supposed small group of DNC Insiders can have so much influence on the Press. Each State, including Michigan and Florida, have finalized their vote counts. It is amazing in a so-called Democracy like the USA, that the supposed FREE, INDEPENDENT and UNBIASED PRESS does not report the Total Vote Count including ALL VOTES REPORTED BY THE RESPECTIVE STATES. We understand the DNC reporting what they want at their Website. But for the Supposed Free, Independent and Unbiased Press not to report ACCURATE and Unbiased Voter Counts, we find very disheartening. Maybe the Republicans are better educated and unbiased and need to be elected again. We do not see the Republican Party advocating that the Press no report the total vote count. The DNC Insiders, Howard Dean, John Edwards and Obama really need to ask themselves if the USA is the place where they should live. In Democracies like the UK, Australia, France, Germany, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, ... THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PRECEDENT to do what the DNC is doing in not counting and reporting the vote totals including Michigan and Florida. So please, at least the Washington Post, take the lead, and be like an Australian, British, German, French, Danish, Swedish, Dutch, Finnish, ... Newspaper and REPORT THE NEWS!! The American People have a right to know!! And it is your JOB TO REPORT THE TRUTH, and not the CENSORED DNC TRUTH. Shame on your for not doing your job!!

Posted by: Aussie2020 | May 22, 2008 5:25 AM | Report abuse

RALLY ALERT! COUNT EVERY VOTE RALLY in DC - May 31st

If you believe that the DNC must honor our core democratic principles and enfranchise the people of MI and FL and their respective delegations,

If you believe that Hillary Clinton is best for our party, most likely to win in November and best for our country,

If you believe the contest for the democratic nomination must not end before all of the votes from each State and US Territory have been cast and counted and that nominating conventions, not candidates (or the media), declare the nominee,

If you believe that the media and DNC have underestimated the passion, strength, intensity and determination of women voters and the power of the women's vote:

Then please join us in Washington, D.C. on May 31st, to rally outside the meeting of the Rules and Bylaws Committee. The RBC will make its determination with respect to Michigan and Florida during its May 31 meeting.

The rally will be held outside the Mariott-Wardman Park Hotel, 2660 Woodley Rd, NW in Washington D.C. on May 31st. We will meet at 7am and rally until the meeting concludes (or longer, if you prefer).

It is essential that everyone who can meets in Washington that day to rally for our cherished democratic principles, help enfranchise MI and FL and to show that Hillary has equal numbers of passionate, devoted supporters who believe fervently, notwithstanding any math, that she will the better general election candidate and best president.

Our purpose is not to divide the party or attack the DNC or Senator Obama. Michigan and Florida, however, in addition to Hillary's strong support nationwide, cannot and must not be dismissed in DNC efforts to unify the party.

You can register to attend the rally at www.hillaryresponders.com/counteveryvote

Posted by: Gorgegirl | May 22, 2008 5:19 AM | Report abuse

Just in case anyone cares about the real facts from us loyal dems in Michigan...

* It was "superdelegates" who supported Clinton who moved the primary up in violation of the rules, and who told her to keep her name on the ballot when all the other major candidates removed theirs.

* It was the Michigan County Clerks who nixed all hope of a repeat primary, because they did not have the staff and equipment to conduct a short-notice election on top of the Michigan school elections in May (ballot boxes and machines have to be sequestered following an election in case of challenges).

* It was Clinton's "superdelegates" who blocked Michigan caucuses to allow all Michigan Democrats to vote in a way that actually counted.

* Write-in ballots for Obama in the Michigan primary were disqualified, not counted.

* Lots of Michigan Democrats at the behest of various Democratic party supporters crossed over and voted against McCain in the Republican primary, in the hope of getting an easier-to-beat candidate. This because they were told that the Democratic primary would not count.

* Clinton claims half of the "uncommitted" delegates from the Michigan primary, even though those votes were really for "anybody but Clinton".

* Clinton also, in claiming she's won the popular vote, assumes that NOBODY in Michigan wanted to vote for Obama.

There is a pending grassroots rules challenge in the Michigan Democratic Party and the DNC which would disqualify ALL Michigan superdelegates (only fair because they created this mess) and seat half of the Michigan delegation. Because Clintons apparently sent campaign mailings in the state, the rules challenge would disqualify her delegates, leaving the delegates to be selected by Democrats at county caucuses. Very fair and reasonable. So, naturally, Clintons oppose it.

I was a Clinton supporter, but I'm now convinced she has no scruples, and is out to destroy the Democratic party's chances this year. The race-baiting, gender-baiting, 3 a.m. fearmongering and now ridiculous reference to "dimpled chads" is just George W. of a different gender.

Time for someone to show her the exit.

Posted by: Bob | May 22, 2008 1:58 AM | Report abuse

Now she is crying sexism. Hollery, you and your minions lived the high life off from your campaign donations. You bought champaign and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of party platters in Iowa and expected a coronation. You lost because you expected it to be handed to you. He went to the caucus states and talked to those people you didn't give a crap about all over the country. You just thought you could sit on your dead a** and ride on Bill's reputation. Well , Bill's reputation aint worth warm snot. You lose. Goodbye. We are sick of you and Bill ....and Chelsea.

Posted by: LetthemdrinkCrownRoyal | May 22, 2008 1:02 AM | Report abuse

I did the math and even with the votes in Florida and Michigan that would be her share were they to count the results of the elections there, Hillary would need 217 out of the last 210 uncommitted supers, that's right, 217 out of the last 210 uncommited.He is ahead in the popular vote . Her supporters keep saying she is but they are not counting over a half miilion votes he received in the caucus states over what she received. She and her packs of liars have more spin than the old Soviet Union. Howard Wolfson reminds me of Baghdad Bob.

Posted by: major teddy | May 22, 2008 12:55 AM | Report abuse


KY exit-poll aftermath / Petition;

If you are a Hillary supporter who is pissed off and will
stay home or vote McCain over Obama, read and sign at;


http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Nobama

-

Posted by: RG | May 22, 2008 12:34 AM | Report abuse

Thanks, km. Now, here is Obama's pledge on public financing:

Q. If you are nominated for President in 2008 and your major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in the presidential public financing
system?

A. Yes. I have been a long-time advocate for public financing of campaigns combined with free television and radio time as a way to reduce the influence of moneyed special interests. I introduced public financing legislation in the Illinois State Senate, and am the only 2008
candidate to have sponsored Senator Russ Feingold's (D-WI) bill to reform the presidential public financing system. In February 2007, I proposed a novel way to preserve the strength of the public financing system in the 2008 election. My plan requires both major party candidates
to agree on a fundraising truce, return excess money from donors, and stay within the public financing system for the general election. My proposal followed announcements by some presidential candidates that they would forgo public financing so they could raise unlimited
funds in the general election. The Federal Election Commission ruled the proposal legal, and Senator John McCain (R-AZ) has already pledged to accept this fundraising pledge. If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to
preserve a publicly financed general election.

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/content/Questionnaire_Midwest_Democracy_Network_Obama_02192008.pdf

Posted by: JakeD | May 21, 2008 9:20 PM | Report abuse

This was Clinton's pledge, in agreement with all other candidates and even quoted by her at the start of the process on New Hampshire NPR:

Four State Pledge Letter 2008
Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina
August 28, 2007
WHEREAS, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee, along with approval from the full body of the DNC, established the 2008 Presidential nominating calendar in 2005.
WHEREAS, the nominating calendar increases diversity with the early participation of African Americans, Hispanics, Asian Americans, Native Americans and labor members.
WHEREAS, the nominating calendar honors the traditional role of retail politics early in the nominating process.
WHEREAS, the nominating calendar provides geographical balance with contests in the Heartland, East, South and West.
WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the nominating calendar.
WHEREAS, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar.
THEREFORE, I Hillary Clinton, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules, pledge to actively campaign in the pre-approved early states Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window (any date prior to February 5, 2008). Campaigning shall include but is not limited to purchasing media or campaign advocacy of any kind, attending or hosting events of more than 200 people to promote one's candidacy for a preference primary and employing staff in the state in question. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.

Posted by: km | May 21, 2008 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Richard Richardson:

If it weren't for the uncertainty of McCain's age, and the adage to "Be Careful What You Wish For", I would actually want Hillary DIANE Clinton to steal the nomination at this point too. There would probably be rioting in Denver worse than Chicago in 1968. She would be the one person who could unify the GOP vote. In such a scenario, if McCain was smart enough to select an African-American as a running mate, he may even get most of that vote and put "safe" States in play. Sorry, but I think at this point the strongest Dem candidate against McCain would have to be Obama.

Posted by: JakeD | May 21, 2008 9:08 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to know by what justification a revote for FL and MI should have even been considered? They played chicken with the DNC and lost. So if they had been allowed to revote, something that wasn't even pursued seriously by their own state governments, then any state could vote whenever they wanted. If they screwed up, they could just have a revote later. In a few years, the primaries would be starting a couple of months after the previous general election ended.

The most galling thing about Clinton and all those protesting with a straight face - they really must think we're all stupid! Sorry, we're tired of being treated that way by Bush, thank you very much. Well to quote Jethro Bodine, "I done gradiated 6th grade", which is all you need to be able to see through this ridiculous charade.

Posted by: orrg1 | May 21, 2008 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Unlike Barack HUSSEIN Obama, she is fighting for HIS votes in Florida to be counted too ...

Posted by: JakeD | May 21, 2008 9:02 PM | Report abuse

So how many of those who post their comments here are McCain supporters that want to see Obama as their Democratic opposition in the Presidential election? I suspect it is a large number. Sort of like the editorial voices published in various media that hide their hidden agenda between the lines of their various articles. The B.S. is getting way too thick. Mrs. Clinton is demographically the candidate with the best chance against McCain. After hearing Obama's praise of Reagan I have made a firm decision to back Mrs. Clinton to the end.

Posted by: Richard Richardson | May 21, 2008 9:01 PM | Report abuse

And let's not even talk Clinton's pathetically transparent pandering to African-American and Hispanic voters in FLA right now; she is actually daring to compare the undeniable moral cause of the civil rights movement with her "moral" cause to get everyone in FLA represented (um, I mean, get her represented). We can all see the sad strategy stringing itself along: just attach the failing campaign to anything historically important or dramatic, no matter how absurd the comparison, and watch as the media broadcasts it w/out commenting on how ridiculous it is.

I was all prepared to vote for this person before the primaries started, as I had voted for the Clintons in the past and actually had come to admire Bill up in Harlem (can you actually imagine, seriously, can you imagine him in those Harlem offices now?).

What a sad revelation of their characters and what a pathetic waste-

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 8:51 PM | Report abuse

Here we go on another FAKE adventure with Hillary Clinton claiming that she is valiantly fighting for the little guy, but in fact, its for her own gain. Does it ever end?!?!?

Here's her game plan: Get all of FL and MI delegates seated, claim a popular vote victory, and then wage a war against the Democratic party for being undemocratic and sexist.

If Hillary wanted MI and FL to count she could have waged the valiant campaign way back in September of last year. But, of course back then she was too busy being complacent to care. She thought she already had the nomination. So we are supposed to believe that she really cares about the voters of MI and FL now.

I think its time for the party leaders to start threatening her with loss of committee memberships. She is really going too far. Bill Clinton has started campaigning against the Democratic Party too. The party leaders and the superdelegates need to nip this in the bud fast.

Posted by: UncleRemus | May 21, 2008 8:50 PM | Report abuse

Not at all, Carol. Even if you give an educated "estimate" for the four States (IA, NV, ME, WA) that did not provide certified vote totals, Hillary DIANE Clinton still has the popular vote total by 63,373.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

The really important factor, however, is the Electoral College. She is beating McCain in that polling currently, but McCain is beating Obama. Super delegates HAVE to be thinking about that ...

Posted by: JakeD | May 21, 2008 8:49 PM | Report abuse

I WAS a hillary supporter, a 52 year old white woman--right in her wheelhouse. but this "popular vote" business is the last straw for me. If she doesn't want to "disenfranchise" anyone and she also insists that she is "ahead in the popular vote" ... well, the latter only works if you don't count (thusly disenfranchising) the caucus states' voters. She is looking like she will say/do anything and i am sick of it now. i feel foolish that it took me so long to wake up...

Posted by: Carol | May 21, 2008 8:38 PM | Report abuse

derek and Alan:

She is not seeking to change the rules, but rather one specific and preliminary "ruling" that took away 100% of the delegates when the RULES provide for a 50% penalty. If she objects to the May 31st decision by the Rules Committee, she is entitled to appeal the decision to the Credentials Committee. If she wants to take the fight all the way to the Convention floor, she can do that too. All of that is "following the rules" already in place.

Ted Kennedy took the fight to the Conventional floor and he was 800 delegates behind Carter. That didn't "ruin" the Democratic Party, did it?

Posted by: JakeD | May 21, 2008 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Hillary is desperate. The race is down to the wire and she's behind. She claims so loudly that Florida and Michigan are suffering an injustice but she fails to acknowledge the DNC is following established rules and regulations that everyone, including Hillary, agreed to. Now that's she's losing, her last attempt is to change those rules to her favor. Is that the kind of president you want .. someone who doesn't play by the rules? Anyone with common sense can see she's playing the "injustice to the voters" speech just to get her way. She is actually making a fool of herself and causing a rift in the Democratic party as well. She doesn't care either as long as she gets the presidency .. at all costs.

Posted by: derek | May 21, 2008 8:32 PM | Report abuse

Its simple. Hillary wants McCain to take Obama in 2008 leaving her as a shoe-in for 2012. She doesn't want to wait for 2016. Its not about what is best for the country, it is about what is best for Hillary.
The Michigan and Florida rules were agreed upon by Hillary and Obama prior to the primaries. Now she wants to change the rules and in the process cause resentment in FL and MI.
In MI Barack was not on the ticket and "uncommitted" came in a close second. But Hillary's math will not allow them to count either. This scary person wants the Hillary votes to count when she was the only one on the ticket. I think that would be closer to disenfranchisement than discounting votes from a state that jumped the cueue.

Posted by: Alan Koenig | May 21, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

The Obama camp blocked the re-vote in FL and MI when they knew that would change the dynamics of the election... Obama would have then lost IN by wider margins and probably crawled to the finish line in NC.

Now his camp is willing to cut a deal... why, because they afraid that if they don't the tide might turn against them... Obama camp has been the one that has been manipulating the public:

(1) A false message of change with out any substance
(2) Playing the race card ever so subtly and accusing the Clintons of playing the race card
(3) Running away from a fight when they know they can't win, FL, MI, KY, WV are examples

What is he going to do in the general election...

Republicans will take the fight to them and slaughter him... the only way they can win is by tearing Obama down and the Obama team has demonstrated over and over again that they can't win a fight.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen | May 21, 2008 8:19 PM | Report abuse

New York Times, September 2, 2007:

"Hours after Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina agreed to sign a loyalty pledge put forward by party officials in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York followed suit. The decision seemed to dash any hopes of Mrs. Clinton relying on a strong showing in Florida as a springboard to the nomination.

"We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process," Patti Solis Doyle, the Clinton campaign manager, said in a statement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/us/politics/02dems.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Posted by: trva | May 21, 2008 8:19 PM | Report abuse

Allright. We all pretty much agree about the character of the Clintons. Can't we show some empathy for Terry McAuliffe who is out selling used cars to bring the campaign debt down? Buy a Yugo from this man, please.

Posted by: ericmiami | May 21, 2008 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Bringing back the ghosts of 2000 will only cause problems: it makes Clinton (Bush) look like she is (as he was) trying to argue her case before the DNC (Supreme Court) to circumvent the will of the people they say they are defending and cheat her (his) way to the WH. Clinton as Bush bending the rules, Clinton as Nader siphoning votes from the Dem candidate, and remember how Gore ran away from the Clintons back in 2000 as they were political poison? ... not a good way to go, Hillary. Obama is not Bush in this drama you are calling up, and everyone can see right through that. Gimme a break-

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

man it must suck to be so uninformed -

no - Dean and the DNC had signed off on both recounts.

They were funded from outside the dnc or the states.

the Governor of MI had said yes - both MI Senators too.

BO's lawyer, Bob Bauer, stopped them with the exscuse that it would be unfair to not allow those who had already voted in the states REPUBLICAN primary to not vot in the Dem primary too!

Can you believe that bullsh%t?

btw...you do know that outside his home state BO hasnt won even 1 state that only had Dems voting?

Operation Chaos for real!

Its a disgrace that we've allowed the media to push so many big lies about Obams campaign. We should all be outraged...but not you "changey/hopey O-bots...

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

you need to get informed dude!!!!!!!! Obama and his attorneys are the ones who would not agree to revotes in Michigan or Florida and had threatened to sue the DNC if they seated and counted the Florida and Michigan votes.

Obama supporters who are touted as being so well educated simply just show that the guy is full of hot air - hot air because some of his supporters are just plain old stupid, and hot air because he has no clue as to HOW to get any of the bla bla that he talks about done.

Get real!!!!!!!! He is giving nothing up! Clinton will prevail with the popular vote at the convention - who wants another error like the one made in 2000 putting someone in the White House with no expereience and via the Supreme Court. Gore had the popular vote and Bush filed suit. I will bet that the first words out of Obama's mouth would be that he would take it to the Supreme Court if Clinton has the popular vote and the DNC realizes she is the only one who can beat McCain.

Obama and his people need to understand, the voters rights are first and primary and democratic to count them all. Clinton started right after the New Hampshire primary to fight for the Florida and Michigan votes to count. She had to wait because it set the table for the argument to count the votes in Florida and Michigan since New Hampshire had also moved it's primary up with no penalty. You folks need to understand that this if for the White House and not some person who can only flip-flop from what is said in a debate...to the real world. Guess he needs some further lessons from Clinton!!!!

A vote for Obama is a vote for McCain, a vote for CLinton is a vote for a Democratic White House.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen | May 21, 2008 8:05 PM | Report abuse

the revotes for both states were fully funded by rich dems and neither the states or the DNC were asked to spend 1 dime.

Team Obama stopped them for 1 reason only - they feared theyd lose these states to Hillary -

Again!

We cant allow team Obama to steal the nomination in such a disgraceful way.

Count the votes!

No justice - no Peace!

If they arent seated as voted - 100% - on to Denver!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 8:03 PM | Report abuse

Comparing this to 2000 is supremely cynical on Clinton's part. You can guarantee that if she were ahead now she would be yelling just as loudly that the rules established at the start of the game must be followed. Her campaign claimed ahead of time that it would be all over by Super Tuesday. That's how much she cared then about all the votes from states yet to be counted. "Whatever it takes" is her motto, "the end justifies the means" her mantra.

This is a naked power grab, nothing more.That's what happened in 2000, which is kind of ironic, wouldn't you say? Anybody here who thinks the party is going to pull some shenanigans like seating the FL and MI delegations based on Clinton's new math, thereby ensuring chaos in every primary season from now on, if not the destruction of the party itself is completely delusional.

If Clinton wants to act like a complete idiot to close this out, well, that's her call.

Posted by: orrg1 | May 21, 2008 8:02 PM | Report abuse

you need to get informed dude!!!!!!!! Obama and his attorneys are the ones who would not agree to revotes in Michigan or Florida and had threatened to sue the DNC if they seated and counted the Florida and Michigan votes.

Obama supporters who are touted as being so well educated simply just show that the guy is full of hot air - hot air because some of his supporters are just plain old stupid, and hot air because he has no clue as to HOW to get any of the bla bla that he talks about done.

Get real!!!!!!!! He is giving nothing up! Clinton will prevail with the popular vote at the convention - who wants another error like the one made in 2000 putting someone in the White House with no expereience and via the Supreme Court. Gore had the popular vote and Bush filed suit. I will bet that the first words out of Obama's mouth would be that he would take it to the Supreme Court if Clinton has the popular vote and the DNC realizes she is the only one who can beat McCain.

Obama and his people need to understand, the voters rights are first and primary and democratic to count them all. Clinton started right after the New Hampshire primary to fight for the Florida and Michigan votes to count. She had to wait because it set the table for the argument to count the votes in Florida and Michigan since New Hampshire had also moved it's primary up with no penalty. You folks need to understand that this if for the White House and not some person who can only flip-flop from what is said in a debate...to the real world. Guess he needs some further lessons from Clinton!!!!

A vote for Obama is a vote for McCain, a vote for CLinton is a vote for a Democratic White House.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen | May 21, 2008 8:02 PM | Report abuse

What should be clear to everyone now is that Clinton ought to have no future with the Democratic party. And there is a good comparison to 2000 here, but maybe not the one she intends: she has become Ralph Nader writ large, someone who would seem to be in the Dems camp ideologically speaking, but will cause the Dems to lose elections by siphoning off votes and allowing a terrible candidate (McBush) to be elected. Thanks a lot-

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 7:53 PM | Report abuse

So a few people on here have been saying that Obama hasn't won a single state that only had democrats voting-- a closed primary. I looked it up, something aparently no one who has been saying that has bothered to do. Obama has not only won closed primary states, he's won the majority of them: wyoming, oregon, maryland, maine, louisiana, colorado, connecticut, kansis, delaware, alaska, and D.C.-- 11 out of 20. Clinton has won only 7, and that's if you include florida. They split guam, and the only closed primary left is ND, which is expected to be Obama.

You want to exclude caucus states from that? Fine-- They'll end tied, 7 to 7.

At any rate, saying he hasn't won any is just stupid.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 7:46 PM | Report abuse

clinton's campaign now has 22 million bucks. if hillary wants to demonstrate her honesty she can drop out now and pay off her campaign debt which, not counting her debt to herself, is approximately 20 mil.

Posted by: dwvermillion | May 21, 2008 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Lets see HRC is over 21m in debt, wants DNC to cover the tab for her ego. 6 months ago she was the darling, no gender problem, Now everyone picks on her!
When she opened her canpaign 2yrs ago she basicly said give me money and you will be rewarded, if you come in later when I have it locked up you will be out in the cold. Its tha way she and Bill think and reward.
Now she can bite the bullit and pay out of their packet, hay most of the money came from SA anyway

Posted by: sunseeker | May 21, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Hillary keeps saying count the votes. So I went to her website to see what she thinks the current vote count was in the states that have already voted.

Couldn't find it.

Looks more like "ignore the votes" to me.

Posted by: Pablo | May 21, 2008 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Count the votes of all of the good and decent Florida and Michigan voters who STAYED HOME because they followed the rules!

Counting the Florida and Michigan contests the way the bogus non-elections were totaled disenfranchises HONEST RULE ABIDING people who stayed home because even Hillary told them it wouldn't count.

Hillary's plan would disenfranchise these voters, but she doesn't seem the least bit concerned about that. In my head, these are the voters that actually listened to the rules I think should least deserve to be disenfranchised.

Posted by: Pablo | May 21, 2008 7:15 PM | Report abuse

I'm getting tired of all these people going on about how Michigan should be counted, and blah blah blah. Do you know why Clinton insists the votes should be counted exactly as they were cast (and that is what she is demanding)? Because her only major opponent in that primary was the uncommited catagory-- which took 39.9 percent of the vote. How many people actually got to vote for Obama: 0... Unless you assume that any and all people who would have voted for Obama just put down uncommited, which is what Clinton does, there is no way that is a fair election.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 7:09 PM | Report abuse

What a fighter!!!!! When the going get rough Hillary gets going!!!

Posted by: Jim | May 21, 2008 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Um, Hillary supporters -
The short bus is leaving, you shouldn't miss it!

She AGREED not to count the results in Michigan and Florida. Now she's BREAKING HER WORD!

Obama did not campaign in those states, and in Michigan, he wasn't even on the ballot! If you want to count votes, then re-vote with OBAMA on the BALLOT! That way it's actually possible that he would get some votes! Of course, that wouldn't favor your lying, dishonest, filthy mudslinging hero, now would it? It's disgusting the way Hillary keeps attempting to win by cheating!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 6:40 PM | Report abuse

When did democrats stop living by the rules of the land?
To the best of my understanding, popular vote does not decide the nominee; delegate count does.
Also, if Fl. and MI. should not be punished, and those who would like them to be held responsible are nuts then why senator Clinton would not fire her campaign manager. As the chair of DNC, back then, he is the one who proposed punishments, back when he believed in living by the law.

Posted by: kshar | May 21, 2008 6:40 PM | Report abuse

"sorry doc

knock-knock!

hullo!

remember last night?
-
Oregon was an open primary - so was MD and DE -

and again - Obama hasnt won 1 closed primary outside of IL."
-------------------------------------------
Oregon is a closed primary. And as far as the open primary states, the majority of those voting who said they were republicans voted for Hilary. A few groups actually tried to organize/get republicans to vote for Clinton in these contests-- not because they lover her, either. So I'm not sure what your point is.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 6:33 PM | Report abuse

"Live with it"

It was not Clinton, Obama, or the voters fault in the FL and MI deal. The votes should be counted and the state officials responsible made to pay a STIFF personal fine to the democratic party.


Posted by: Billw | May 21, 2008 6:33 PM | Report abuse

When one person votes we count it! WHEN OVER TWO MILLIOM people Vote we count those VOTES!

Unless you are G.w. Bush and people Voting does matter and the will of the people doesn't matter!

WE IN AMERICA COUNT VOTES ! IT OVER RIDES EVRY OTHER RUEL!

SO STOP CHANING THE RULES And start COUNTING THE VOTES IN FL,
AND MI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Concerned Citizen | May 21, 2008 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Today (May 21) U.S. Rep. Joe Courtney of Connecticut, whose district voted for Clinton in that state's Feb. 5 primary, joined the Obama team. This kind of thing and media bias has put Obama where he is today. Very unfair to Clinton and very unfortunate for the country. One has to wonder what inspired Courtney to betray the voters....

Posted by: Billw | May 21, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

All of you complaining about Florida and Michigan are missing the point. 48 STATES FOLLOWED THE RULES, 2 DID NOT. If the folks in MI and FL are upset and fell disenfranchised they should take their anger out on the party officials in their home state that decided not to follow the rules that were agreed upon. They were warned that they would be stripped of their delicates if they moved the date of their primary. Now they want a do-over -- Boo-whoo. HRC want their volts to be counted. How can voltes be counted when the candidates were not allowed to campaign in the sate. Obama was not even on the ballot in MI. Why not? Because the national party said their votes did not COUNT. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all have our way after the fact? Live with it!!

Posted by: WLG | May 21, 2008 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Why don't you try giving Obama some real experience, and some real political background and then you he can run for office or be Hillary VP!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

oh ...you knew....right...

Posted by: nuffsaid's a dope | May 21, 2008 5:54 PM | Report abuse

Via Real Clear Politics:

* Hillary won Florida by 294,772 votes.
* Hillary won Michigan by 328,309 votes
* Hillary won 150,000 more votes than Obama last night in Kentucky and Oregon. She won Kentucky by 249,224 votes while Obama won Oregon by 102,144 votes.

Let's add it all up:

* Popular Vote Totals (w/FL & MI)Hillary leads by 174,047 votes (.48%.)
* Popular Vote Totals (w/FL & MI and Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA): Hillary leads by 63,825 votes (.18%)

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 5:52 PM | Report abuse

May 21, 2008 5:47 PM,

I know who he is and what he represents and even he praises Obama. I'm certainly not being manipulated, but thanks for your presumptuousness. It must work out really well for you in life.

Posted by: Nuffsaid | May 21, 2008 5:51 PM | Report abuse


*Hillary Clinton is already our
true Presidential Nominee*

NJ, MA, AZ,, NM ,TX ,NV,OK, AK.

TN, RI, NH, IN, FL, MI BIG win

W.va! BIG KT, BIG FL, MI,

OVER *17 MILLION VOTES*

HILLARY CLINTON 08!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

why are obamabots SOOO uninformed?

Sullivan is a right winger that has been viciously attacking Dems for 20 years.

He called opponents of the Iraq war traitorous "fifth columnists".

Hes the male Arianna. Hes been anti Clinton since 93.

go to www.dailyhowler.com - put his name in the search engine with Al Gores and actually start to understand how you are being manipulated....

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 5:47 PM | Report abuse


Hillary Clinton is already our true Presidential Nominee! Hillary has won not by gaming and cheating in the caucuses and paying off the powers that be, like Obama
In Pennsylvania Hillary won by 200,000 votes! Now Hillary got 10 delegates with that 200,000 vote gain.
While Obama got 13 delegates with the 13,000 vote gain in Idaho. What is Obama good at? Manipulating the system.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

-------------------------------------------
5-21


UPDATED NEWS FLASH!

HOWARD DEAN ANNOUNCES "THAT SENATOR OBAMA WILL UNDERGO A GENDER CHANGE OPERATION IN BRAZIL, TO QUALIFY HIM UNDER THE SPECIAL PRIORITY QUOTA SYSTEM, OF BEING BOTH BI-RACIAL, AND A WOMAN"


AP
-------------------------------------------

Posted by: Johnny Democracy | May 21, 2008 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Senator Clinton is such a champion of counting all the votes that she doesn't even include caucus states when she claims she has the popular vote. Bravo Hillary!

Posted by: Nuffsaid | May 21, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Senator Hillary Clinton is the champion of democracy. She is a great advocate for Michigan and Florida. Bravo! The DNC needs to count the votes!

Posted by: maria | May 21, 2008 5:37 PM | Report abuse

May 21, 2008 5:32 PM,

What exactly is so horrific about A. Sullivan? What's your basis for that claim?

Posted by: Nuffsaid | May 21, 2008 5:36 PM | Report abuse

sorry doc

knock-knock!

hullo!

remember last night?
-
Oregon was an open primary - so was MD and DE -

and again - Obama hasnt won 1 closed primary outside of IL.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

obamabots quoting that horror Sullivan make me want to vomit!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

you do know that outside his home state BO hasnt [sic] won even 1 state that only had Dems voting?

Except for Colorado caucuses, Connecticut primary, Delaware primary, Hawaii caucuses, Louisiana primary, Maine caucuses, Maryland primary, Nebraska caucuses, Nevada caucuses, Oregon primary, and Wyoming caucuses. Obama is actually ahead on this metric by my count, 11 to 7.

DC, not a state, is also on the list of closed Democratic primaries that Obama has won.

Alaska, Iowa, and Kansas have de-facto open caucuses (they're "closed", but you may change your affiliation at the caucus).

Posted by: Dr. Anti-Disinformation | May 21, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Very funny "way out there"!

How do you kill two birds with one stone?

A: You send BHO to Brazil for a sex change

Posted by: Johnny D | May 21, 2008 5:31 PM | Report abuse

oh so egc52556, we are supposed to believe that you are actually worried about whether states in 2012 or 16 will move ahead of NH?

right....

Just because youre willing to lie - dont think that means we are willing to believe you!

Posted by: puleeze | May 21, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

I just have to quote Andrew Sullivan's description of Hillary's changing of the rules to suit her own political gains:

"I think she has now made it very important that Obama not ask her to be the veep. The way she is losing is so ugly, so feckless, so riddled with narcissism and pathology that this kind of person should never be a heartbeat away from the presidency."

Posted by: Nuffsaid | May 21, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

I love you Florida and Michigan, and I definitely want your states counted.

With that said, Mrs. Clinton is unbelievable today. I congratulated her yesterday, but today this is unbelievable. Integrity is important. She made a decision with Obama, and is simply not owning up to it. That's flip-flopping, and I don't find that fair on her part. That is "elitist" attitude, thinking that when rules are set you get to change them up as you go. No Mrs. Clinton. Now, as for Florida and Michigan separately.....

I do indeed would like to know her latest FAIR proposal to help fix this problem. It is not fair, for various obvious flaws, to count them as they are, especially Michigan. The states will be represented; they will be included. With that said, what is the problem? Is it about counting the states As They Are? Is that what it's really about? The other states followed the rules. How fair is that to the rest of them? Why does Michigan and Florida get special treatment? The citizens of those states should vote their reps out of office and very soon. They really screwed things up, and created unecessary problems to have to sort out.

Posted by: Obama2008 | May 21, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse

IMPEACH HOWARD DEAN!

what a frigin moron!

Posted by: mary | May 21, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse

holden,

The first problem to your premise is the notion that "those rednecks in Kentucky and West Virginia" were thinking to begin with. Nice try on the sarcasm.

Posted by: Nuffsaid | May 21, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: OVER TWO MILLION VOTES | May 21, 2008 5:05 PM:
***OVER TWO MILLION PEOPLE VOTED FL, MI, those votes must be counted!
----

O2MV: Florida and Michigan did this to themselves with Clinton, Obama, Dean, and the DNC looking on and doing nothing to stop it. If FL & MI are seated and counted without penalty then what's to persuade (or stop) other states from pulling the same stunt next time?

This situation is one smelly road kill, and now here comes Clinton, trying to feed on it. Is she so lacking in inner moral guidance that she can't see how her actions are hurting the country? (To hell with hurting the Democrats.) Hillary Clinton should be a LEADER, a ROLE MODEL. She should be an example of fair play and a demonstration of a reason why young people (especially young women) might enter into politics and serve this country. Instead of trying to bend and break the rules to fit her blind ambition to be the Prez, she should work feverishly to establish fair and honest rules and then play by those rules fairly and honestly.

She's not.
.
.

Posted by: egc52556 | May 21, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Can we just turn Obama into a black woman? Good doctors in Brazil can work wonders here. There, you see fellow wacked out liberals, all problems with quotas solved.


wot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: way out there | May 21, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

scotrt,

how dim are you?

the revotes for both states were fully funded by rich dems and neither the states or the DNC were asked to spend 1 dime.

Team Obama stopped them for 1 reason only - they feared theyd lose these states to Hillary -

Again!

We cant allow team Obama to steal the nomination in such a disgraceful way.

Count the votes!

No justice - no Peace!

If they arent seated as voted - 100% - on to Denver!

Posted by: no scott | May 21, 2008 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Very true, let's write our editors about the real reason Mr. O pulled his name off the ballot at the last minute in MI.

Let's go SuperNova with this conspiracy))))

Posted by: Mag-Girl | May 21, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Tomorrow's Question:

Why did Howard Dean REALLY disqualify Florida in the Primary?

Answer:

Last minute polling showed his favorite son, Mr. O trailing Hillary by a significant double-digit margin, which just wasn't cool with Mr. Dean.

Posted by: Johnny Democracy | May 21, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton has been out manned; out gunned, and out spent 2 and 3 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton.
The sexism in this election needs to be exposed. Fortunately Hillary Clinton has been able to hold on against this sexism outrage with those repeated dramatic comebacks and BIG WINS IN KT,W.va, of Hillary Clinton.
Not only has it been the Good old boys club, of the Grand old party of the DNC! It's been the Good old boys club of the media and its use of sexism disguise in yellow journalism.
This election is being stolen!Just like GORE v BUSH The media has been bullying Hillary supporters with constant put-downs. Just as they have been interfering by broadcasting that the primaries are over, when they clearly are not. The Super delegates are being paid off and/or bullied by Obama and team as well
Shame on the media for not doing its job! It should be exposing the sexism. Instead of pretending it's not happening to Hillary Clinton and her run for the White House. As if she is the only women in the world that sexism is not happening to. What a joke! You're not going to get away with it just because she happens to be Hillary Clinton.
Try Exposing that the unfair tactics of sexism used by the all male run Media, and the all male run DNC! The all male late nigh TV shows.
Try Exposing that Obama is only ahead by gaming and cheating the caucuses making him look like a stronger candidate then he really is. Try Exposing Hillary Clinton has taken this country and women light years ahead. This must be why she has a movement behind her! And why so many have had to mass an army against her.

Hillary Clinton is one hell of a fighter, one incredible advocate for women around the world, for what is right in this country like universal health care. Obama has to steal her ideas and solutions to even look good. Why I am not surprised that a man with little or no experience instead of a woman with 30 years experience is being put a head by the all male run leadership of the Democratic Party by the Good old boys club.
We women are not falling for the manipulation of the facts and the ongoing spin COUNT THE VOTES IN FL _MI

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Today's Question:


Why did Obama, at the last minute, pull his name off the ballot in Michigan?


Answer:

During late polling, not enough MI voters were hanging with Mr. O.

Posted by: Johnny Democracy | May 21, 2008 5:14 PM | Report abuse

It's very simple. Either you believe that the national Democratic Party has a right to have enforceable rules about how states hold their Democratic primaries, or you don't.

If you don't, you need to realize that you support total chaos. For example, you need to get ready for the 2012 primaries to start in 2011.

If you do believe in the right to have enforceable rules, you must also believe in consequences for breaking those rules. So you must support some sort of consequences for Florida and Michigan.

As I understand it, the minimum consequence under Democratic Party rules is loss of half the delegates. Expect to see that minimum consequence on May 31st.

The best Clinton can hope for is that Florida's delegates all get half a vote, and Michigan's delegates all get half a vote and the uncommitted delegates go to
Obama in some fashion. As an Obama supporter, this is what I hope for, in that it will be more than fair to Clinton supporters and thus increase Obama's chances in the general election.

So Clinton gets 89 delegate votes, Obama gets 67.5 delegate votes, the new threshold is 2104, and Obama is 74 votes away, rather than the 62 he is now, from winning the nomination. Then Obama gets those 74 votes by June 3rd, and we all go on with our lives.

Posted by: There Must Be Some Rules | May 21, 2008 5:14 PM | Report abuse


The problem canme when Obama stopped the revotes.

Dean and the DNC had signed off on both recounts.

They were set to be funded from outside the dnc or the states.

the Governor of MI had said yes - both MI Senators too.

BO's lawyer, Bob Bauer, stopped them with the exscuse that it would be unfair to not allow those who had already voted in the states REPUBLICAN primary to not vote in the Dem primary too!

Can you believe that bullsh%t?

btw...you do know that outside his home state BO hasnt won even 1 state that only had Dems voting?

Operation Chaos for real!


Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Who's gotta quota, you gotta quota, who needs a quota? I didn't tell you to create no d**n quota!

Posted by: Lawyer Chiles | May 21, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

no Scott,

You can spout Hillary's talking points until you are blue in the face, but everything about the alleged "revotes" was silly at best. Those initiatives petered out quickly when the DNC realized that it would have to spend money it would rather spend in the fall. This isn't an Obama issue; it's a party issue.

BTW, next time you choose to argue a point with me, try using a username or other identifier that we can compare with any other posts you make. That way the rest of us will know if its the same fool posting the same foolishness each time.

I'm always happy to own my foolishness!

Posted by: scott032 |

Posted by: Bravo, Scott!! So good, I am posting this again! | May 21, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Is the rumor for real, that Howard Dean was joking with Obama, stating how much easier this whole scenario would be if he were a black woman?

Posted by: JenniferUSA | May 21, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

The voters of Florida are such ingrates. Barack Obama favors them with a visit to their state and they dare to question him?

If they're not more respectful, he's going to not let them vote for him in November, just like he wouldn't let them vote for him in the primary. That'll show them.

What in the world is it going to take before all these stubborn voters, like those rednecks in Kentucky and West Virginia, stop trying to think for themselves and just succumb to Obama? They really don't deserve him.

Posted by: holden | May 21, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

On second thought, hold your breath, JakeD. If we are really lucky, you will black out long enough to stop your "deeply frightened of a Obama/McCain matchup" rationalizations for a day.

Posted by: it's a restricted club, Wang, don't tell them you're jewish... | May 21, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

-------------------------------------------
5-21

NEWS FLASH!

HOWARD DEAN ANNOUNCES THE NOMINATION OF AMANDA JEFFERSON, A SENATOR FROM DELEWARE, TO REPRESENT THE PARTY FOR PRESIDENT IN THIS FALL'S GENERAL ELECTION!

In a dimly lit back room, Mr. Dean is seen having his cake, and nearly choking on it too!


an
-------------------------------------------

Posted by: anton | May 21, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse


***OVER TWO MILLION PEOPLE VOTED FL, MI, those votes must be counted!

It's UN-American not to count the vote's!!

DNC is abandoned the people!! And the true will of the people! Shame on the media and SHAME on the leaders of the Democratic Party!

Posted by: OVER TWO MILLION VOTES | May 21, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Hillary's pursuit of power is pathological. The more desperate ploys and gambits she tries, the more she disqualifies her for the Presidency--AND the Vice Presidency.

If she misleads her followers as to her chances to win the nomination, what makes anyone think she wouldn't deceive the American people as President?

Posted by: DavLaurel | May 21, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

its so very obvious Addies a lil nuts - off his meds!

We are off to Denver!

Posted by: Addie's insane | May 21, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

You know, I try so hard to say nice things & stay positive about Senator Clinton b/c Obama is setting that good example now. But, it's too hard, dad-blame-it! In her comments that the Floridians know what it's like to have someone who didn't really win all of the votes win the election, she is not so subtly comparing Obama to George W Bush, to arouse latent anger and a sense that Obama is "cheating" his way to this nomination. I'm sorry - I can't not call this what it is - Machiavellian politics. She is accusing Obama of cheating because he followed the Party rules?? I am so reassured that we will not have to listen to 4 years of this person as President of the United States, arguing about the meaning of "is" and whether she was too tired to remember if she really got shot at or was dreaming it. And PUH-lease a victim of sex discrimination? Where is the voter exit poll showing the number of voters who voted for Obama for the simple reason that they would NOT vote for a woman?

Posted by: Jean | May 21, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

O MY GOD. Could I possibly HATE this woman anymore?! Comparing this rules debate for MI/FL to THE CIVIL RIGHT MOVEMENT?!!! THANK YOU THANK YOU HILLARY CLINTON FOR COMPLETELY TRIVIALIZING WHAT SO MANY PEOPLE DIED FOR!!
What a complete SLAP in the face to every living African American and former abolitionist!! And you Clintonites have the audacity to say that black people in this country owe the Clintons our allegiance!!! This campaign has COMPLETELY removed their farce! What an incouragable woman! I cannot believe she went there.
Incredibly disgusted.

Posted by: Addie | May 21, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

JakeD

Sorry I do not, but I have seen all the documents signed by all DEMS.

Posted by: bigkz07 | May 21, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Don't hold your breath JakeD.

Thanks for all your "concern" for the Democratic Party and your "warmest wishes" that it will somehow, against all odds, still nominate the weaker candidate to run against Grandpa in November. It just isn't going to happen.

Posted by: Maria | May 21, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Someone should explain to Hillary that she is actually hurting the Democratic Party chances in Florida and Michigan. By Hillary continually public pressing for the votes in Florida and Michigan to count as is, she making the leaders of the DNC and Obama's campaing to look passive and uncaring about Florida Democratic voters.

The superdelegates really need to shut Hillary down come June 3rd because this "revote/count-as-is" rhetoric from the Hillary campaign has been out for about 3 months. It is going to take Obama at least 2 months to counter the ill-will Floridan Hillary supporters.

Posted by: AJ | May 21, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

OMG, I cannot believe this woman is invoking her so called fight to seat Fl and MI to the civil rights struggle, can she get anymore pathetic? I don't know what her and Bill have on the rest of the Superdelegates or DNC, she's tried rearranging the math, changing the logic, her surrogets have tried blackmail and bribary? None of that has worked, will someone in the DNC please pull the superdelegates aside and tell them to try and muster a set of kahonnas together and vote already so this mess is over, she's making a fool of herself and attempting to destroy Obama in the process so she can say, "see, I told you I was the best".
She's no example for anyone's daughter, granddaughter, etc. I'm very close to her age, she does nothing for me, she's just more of the same old politics!

Posted by: Sue F | May 21, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

jc or bigkz07:

Do you have a link to the "signed agreement"?

Posted by: JakeD | May 21, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

The bottomline in all of this is:
1. The rules were broken by these 2 states
2. Clinton & Obama and the DNC agreed and signed document stating that they agreed with the punishment of not having the delegates counted.
It is as simple as that. But when clinton saw that she was not winning the way she thought it would go, she started up this mess about counting the vote from the ILLEGAL PRIMARY........
THE BROKE THE RULES, so it is what it is.......

Posted by: jc | May 21, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Let me say, Both Hillary and Obama SIGNED to acknowledge that these votes/delegates would not count in FL and MI. So where is the problem? But since Hillary is beat, it is a whole new story for her and slick Willie. Yes, I feel bad that they don't count, but thank the REP. in FL. Both states know what was going to happen.

I am a Dem and a Union member. Hillary backed NAFTA and had a Union BUSTER on her campaign. What does that say to the blue collar voter. If you are a blue collar voter, and think HRC is going to help you think again. The Freedom of Choice legislation SHOULD HAVE BEEN PASSED when Bill was the Pres. If he was with labor and the blue collar, why didn't he do it? Labor tried to tell this county what BUSH was going to do and NO ONE wanted to listen. So the people in the red states, who are complaining, ITS YOUR FAULT if you voted for BUSH.

If HRC takes this fight to the convention the DEM'S may hand this country back over to the REP. She can't even run a campaign with the money she received, how do you think she could run the county, If she is over $20 million in debt.

12yrs of REP, it would take 20 years for the DEMS to fix the disaster.

For all you REP who are blue collar look how many times McCAIN voted against the minimum wage!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: bigkz07 | May 21, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

It's disgusting to me that Hillary would put her own flimsy electoral prospects in league with the Women's Suffrage or Civil Rights movements. She simply can't win while playing by the rules that she herself agreed to back in 2007--and you Hillary supporters on this page are following her off the ethical cliff. You're just like the Republicans who've continued to support Bush through the 2000 recount/no WMDs/torture/Katrina/ etc. Anything for a victory!

This is very simple. Every Democratic candidate, including Hillary, promised in writing not to campaign in and not to acknowledge the results from Michigan and Florida. Whether that was a wise decision on the Dems' part is an open question. However, it WAS a mutually agreed upon decision. Only Hillary was craven enough to leave her name on the Michigan ballot.

And when it became clear Hillary couldn't win the states that everyone agreed would count, she threw morality and ethics to the four winds and began using those results to whine about the people of those states being "disenfranchised"--when it's all really just an end-around power grab for herself.

Had there been a full-on Democratic campaign in Florida and Michigan--with Obama closing on or passing Clinton as he did in every state up to North Carolina--you can bet that neither of those states would have provided Hillary with a result that would have gotten her any closer to this nomination.

That's why her callous, craven decision to demand the inclusion of these blatantly illegitimate primary results has completely trashed her credibility and her qualification to be president. It's easy to imagine what similar kinds of stunts she might pull as the nominee, or as president. The whole sordid affair is just sickening, and I can't believe you Hillary supporters are following her down this path.

Posted by: jonfromcali | May 21, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

The old America is coming back to the people and the world. Let's celebrate. Hush now don't cry for you have cried enough and suffered more than any Nation. Stand Tall.

Posted by: justadad55+ | May 21, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

"Now I've heard some say that counting Florida and Michigan would be changing the rules. I say that not counting Florida and Michigan is changing a central governing rule of this country." - Hillary Clinton, trailing in 2008

"It's clear, this election [Michigan is] having is not going to count for anything." - Hillary Clinton, ahead in 2006

"We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process. And we believe the DNC's rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role. Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar." -Clinton campaign statement in 2006

"Of the [rules panel's] 30 members, a near-majority of 12 were Clinton supporters. All of them--most notably strategist Harold Ickes--voted for Florida's full disenfranchisement. (The only dissenting vote was cast by a Tallahassee, Fla., city commissioner who supported Obama.)" - Slate article, April 2008

And what is her solution for dealing with all those Democrats AND Republicans AND Independents who didn't show up because they actually abided by the rules? Makes a lot of sense that the votes they would have cast should be discounted, I guess.

Hillary Clinton's claims are preposterous, ludicrous, unfounded, and frankly insulting.

Posted by: D'Prof | May 21, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Dangerous territory. How is this helping Obama coalesce angry Clinton Dems? Wait; now her campaign wants to fight beyond June 3. Is this all a last-ditch kitchen sink fight to win?

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Posted by: matt | May 21, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

As a matter of fact, MikeMcNally and Scott032, I don't believe you can find an example of a WaPo reporter adding a subjective characterization or ascribing a motivation that reflects badly on Sen Obama. I can cite examples from virtually every single Trail post that more than passingly references Sen Clinton of the reporter adding loaded characterizations that reflect poorly on her. Once you take your thumb off the scale, you'll find these reporters' thumbs all over it.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Saw Hillary today, it was a joke. People were almost laughing as they were leaving. All she did was talk about her campaign. Nothing about issues it is all just about her being president. She lost support after her psychotic 45 minute rant. One old couple said as we were filing out they thought she may be crazy and everyone around them began to laugh. She was completely nuts more so then comes across on TV.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

scott032, how do you explain this:
" in a soft, almost pleading voice"?

pleading? Have you ever seen a Post reporter characterize any other candidate's tone as "pleading"? It's a subjective characterization, it's out of line, and I'm curious how you account for its limited to Sen Clinton usage.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

If the media hates Hillary so much, why did they immediately jump on Obama the minute she whined that they weren't attacking him enough? They went on a three month long blitz to bash him over such non-issues as flagpins, Wright, and "she thought he might be a Muslim". Every channel was blaring these inane issues 24/7. And guess what? It worked. She managed to polarize whites against blacks and women against men. The MSM has been Hillary's lapdog for most of the campaign. And now, all you Hillary supporters come up with the lame excuse she's losing because "the media's against her". Listen to yourselves. If you aren't already neo-cons, you should sincerely consider becoming one.

Posted by: MikeMcNally | May 21, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse

you are so under informed, for the third time - get ye to www.dailyhowler.com

redeem yourself.

Posted by: Sue | May 21, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

man it must suck to be so uninformed -

no - Dean and the DNC had signed off on both recounts.

They were funded from outside the dnc or the states.

the Governor of MI had said yes - both MI Senators too.

BO's lawyer, Bob Bauer, stopped them with the exscuse that it would be unfair to not allow those who had already voted in the states REPUBLICAN primary to not vot in the Dem primary too!

Can you believe that bullsh%t?

btw...you do know that outside his home state BO hasnt won even 1 state that only had Dems voting?

Operation Chaos for real!

Its a disgrace that we've allowed the media to push so many big lies about Obams campaign. We should all be outraged...but not you "changey/hopey O-bots...

Posted by: no scott | May 21, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Sue,

I followed the impeachment nonsense everyday. I also followed the other coverage the Clintons received.

The press generally gave the Clintons pretty favorable coverage when it came to policy. By the same token, the press LOVED the Lewinsky story because it sold print. Same thing with Paula Jones. The other stuff didn't get as much coverage because it wasn't as "sexy".

You may not like it, but the press love a story that sells; they don't usually "hate" the principals in their stories. That's corporate media...

Posted by: scott032 | May 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

hey JBE - it seems its time for your anti- bot meds!

youre just gonna go nuts when you understand that this fight WILL go to Denver!

He should never have stopped the re-votes - that WILL be how he loses!

Posted by: gk | May 21, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

I should clarify that 17,637,307 is the MOST votes any candidate for President (IN THE PRIMARIES from either party) has ever received. Everyone knows that our current President received the most total votes in a general election ; )

Posted by: JakeD | May 21, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

no Scott,

You can spout Hillary's talking points until you are blue in the face, but everything about the alleged "revotes" was silly at best. Those initiatives petered out quickly when the DNC realized that it would have to spend money it would rather spend in the fall. This isn't an Obama issue; it's a party issue.

BTW, next time you choose to argue a point with me, try using a username or other identifier that we can compare with any other posts you make. That way the rest of us will know if its the same fool posting the same foolishness each time.

I'm always happy to own my foolishness!

Posted by: scott032 | May 21, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Scott,

Were you alive or aware in the 1990s?

If so, did you never see the cable coverage of the impeachment (domestic coup attempt)or the coverage of Al Gore's campaign?

Are you kidding?

Again, go to www.dailyhowler.com and educate yourself about the reality of our horrid ms media.

Posted by: Sue | May 21, 2008 4:01 PM | Report abuse


Hillary agreed before the primary season started that Florida's votes would not count. How is it that she's able to say now that they should count??

All the votes were counted in the 2000 election too. What the h*ll is she talking about that they weren't? They were counted three times after the election was over--Bush won all three times....

Hillary has lost--she needs to go home and bake some cookies for Bill.

Posted by: charko825 | May 21, 2008 4:01 PM | Report abuse

D.R.:

I'm very happy (in fact, I'm really looking forward to golfing tomorrow). You must have me confused with some Clinton supporters. Which "blog" besides WaPo have you seen me post at?

Posted by: JakeD | May 21, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Disgusting pandering. And, in effect, lying about the situation and clinton's own actions, for her own benefit.

This is why we HATE a lying scum political lawyer who weasels every word around ambition!

Hillary proves herself untrustworthy because she agreed to stay out of Florida when the florida Democratic party broke the rules of the Democrats.... and then encouraged people to vote for her in the non-election, and now insists that the flawed-polling-non-election be counted "as it".

What a typical double-dealing scum poltician!

Split florida and michigan 50/50 and be done with it already!

Vote Obama for President - he leads in popular vote, pledged delegates/electoral vote, and in the number of states won by a large margin.

Posted by: JBE | May 21, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Sue,

I don't really put any stock in the concept that "the media hates Hillary". Hillary did get a rougher ride early on because she was running like a front-runner and they weren't going to sell nearly as many papers if she just walked to the nomination.

The media doesn't really "like" or "hate" candidates all that often. However, they will slant stories to sell copy. Why? It makes them money. So, if you want to be more truthful, the media "hates" boring stories, and will push its agenda (skewing coverage to be more interesting) so it can make more money.

Remember, media corporations have to answer to stockholders just like oil companies...

Posted by: scott032 | May 21, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

"People who blame Obama for this mess really miss the point on this. It's no more or less fair for Obama to say "don't count them" as it is for Clinton to say "count them".

iD AGREE - BUT oBAMA, aXELROD AND bAUER STOPPED REVOTES IN BOTH FL AND MI.

tHESE WERE FUNDED AND SUPPORTED BY THE DEM SENATORS AND mI'S GOVERNOR.

THEY STOPPED THEM ONLY BECAUSE THEY WERE WORRIED THAT hILLARY WOULD WIN THE STATES AGAIN.

OBAMA OWNS THIS DISGRACE NOW - NOT JUST THE DNC.

Posted by: no Scott | May 21, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

According to the Hillary supporters here, it's a democracy when only one name is on a ballot and when that person wins, they should run around the country bragging about how everyone loves them. Dictators like Saddaam practice that sort of democracy, but I didn't think it was thought of as acceptable here in the US. Of course Bush said he would prefer we had a dictatorship here, must be Hillary agrees with him.

Posted by: MikeMcNally | May 21, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Jake,
You spread your venom everywhere you go and to every blog that you visit. You must be very unhappy.

Posted by: D.R. | May 21, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Ill tell you why Jake - ots because the media HATES the Clintons and work to hurt Hillarys campaign.

its 2000 all over again. Never forget what they did to Gore...and our planet.

read www.dailyhowler.com - see how we are allowing the media to do this to us again and weep.

Posted by: Sue | May 21, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Mike,

The simplest answer can probably be found in circumstances. When it was announced that Michigan and Florida would not be counted it was presumed (not just by the Clinton camp but by everyone) that Hillary would roll through the process. Michigan and Florida moved up because they believed (like everyone else) that the race would be over before their scheduled dates to vote. Hillary left her name on because she figured she'd get to claim a pyrric victory, but knew the vote wouldn't count and the contemporaeous coverage shows she agreed with not counting those votes or seating the delegates. Those states elected to put on a dog and pony show and forego being seated at the convention.

My biggest question is: How could the Democratic Party have been so short sided as to allow this to happen? People who blame Obama for this mess really miss the point on this. It's no more or less fair for Obama to say "don't count them" as it is for Clinton to say "count them". The real problem lies not with the candidates but the stupidity of the Democratic party, both at the national level and in Florida and Michigan.

Posted by: scott032 | May 21, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

The same msm that demanded that Gore withdraw in 2001 - now are trying to push Clinton out of this race before Denver.

NO!

Obama, Axselrod and their lawyer Bauer stopped the revotes in both MI and FL - even though they were fully funded - only because they were worried that Obama would lose in these states AFAIN!

They now , both states,must be counted as voted or we Clintonites will NEVER come to support Obama if he steals the nomination through such dirty tricks.

understand this.

Posted by: holden | May 21, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

In fact, Hillary has the MOST votes (17,637,307) any candidate for President (from either party) has ever received. Why this is not gaining more traction is beyond me. Perhaps McCain could convince many of them to vote for him?

Posted by: JakeD | May 21, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Enough of the pandering:

Actually, even with an educated "estimate" for the caucus States you are referring to (IA, NV, ME, WA), she is still ahead in the total POPULAR vote by 63,745.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

I would agree that it looks like Michigan (not her fault that he took his name off the ballot) and Florida (again) are key.

Posted by: JakeD | May 21, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Enough of the pandering! : Legit.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

the same cable idiots who tell Hillary to get out before Denver are just repeating their idiocy that Gore should quit during the revote in 2001.

I think Russet, Matthews and Co are just as culpable for every death in Iraq as Bush ir Rove themselves.

And now theyre pushing Obama...

Thats reason #1 to oppose him and why Gore will NEVER endorse Obama before this is done.

Posted by: tim | May 21, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Mike, I believe you'll find the agreement covered campaigning. All contemporaneous reporting presumed the delegates would be seated and the Clinton campaign has never agreed not to seat them.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Why do we allow this blatant lying to continue? She is NOT ahead in the popular vote by any reasonable metric. The ONLY way she leads in her concocted math is to count MI and FL (without allocating one single vote to Obama in Michigan, by the way)and to discount every single caucus vote. How on God's green earth is the media giving her such a pass on this? How can she stand before a crowd of people (before anyone for that matter) and with a straight face preach about not "disenfranchising" MI and FL and in the same unspoken breath disenfranchise the thousands of people who voted in caucuses? Can anyone say "opportunistic hypocrite!" I'm offended that she would insult my intelligence this way.

Posted by: Enough of the pandering! | May 21, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Don't worry, my job will be finished after May 31st ; )

Posted by: JakeD | May 21, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Has Hillary explained why she agreed at the beginning of the campaign NOT to allow Florida and Michigan votes to count? Was she being deceptive then or now?

Posted by: MikeMcNally | May 21, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

JakeD, a year ago, an Fox watching, but otherwise level-headed colleague confided to me he could never vote for someone named "Hussein". I guess you know what you're doing.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

"in a soft, almost pleading voice"


I guess I'll never understand what gives a reporter the confidence to type such a subjective and loaded characterization into a news story. It just seems out of line to me.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

At least, Florida votes should be counted.
What a dumb Party!

Posted by: Polly | May 21, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

HANG IN THERE, HILLARY DIANE CLINTON!!!

Posted by: JakeD | May 21, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

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