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Obama's Independent-Minded Oregon Supporters

By Alec MacGillis
BEND, Ore. -- After all the bowling and the shot-and-a-beer quaffing of the recent Rust Belt primaries, the upcoming Oregon contest is serving as a useful reminder of a fact that's been somewhat overlooked: not every swing voter in America wears a blue collar.

Hillary Clinton's campaign has been arguing for several months that her strength with white working class Democrats would make her better positioned to win key states like Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan in November. And there is no doubt that Barack Obama has work to do in winning over this group of voters, though his campaign argues that many of them voters will remain in the Democratic fold come November.

But the fixation on Rust Belt Reagan Democrats has given short shrift to another, and by some measures more numerous and pivotal, group of swing voters: middle and upper-middle income independents who jump from one party to another with every cycle. This sprawling, amorphous group of voters has been growing with every election and is seen by the Obama campaign as crucial to his hopes of winning swing states such as Minnesota, New Hampshire, Missouri and Wisconsin, not to mention states that Obama argues he can take from the Republican column, such as Colorado and Virginia.

These independents also exist in large numbers in Oregon, where interviews with voters suggest that Obama's support among them is far stronger than it is with the boilermaker set. In Beaverton, outside Portland, where Obama visited a small software firm, employee Jack Randall, a chemist, said he was an independent who had voted for Republicans in the past -- including George Bush in 2000 -- but that he would vote for Obama this fall.

"He's very personable, intelligent and thoughtful. There was a lot of intensity of data about what he's going to do, it wasn't just the fluff that we've been hearing about," said Randall, 56, whose Republican wife is also backing Obama. For him and his colleagues at the firm, he said, a key issue setting Obama apart from Clinton and presumptive GOP nominee John McCain was their support for a holiday in the federal gasoline tax. "That made many of us laugh," he said. "Anyone who knows arithmetic knows it's not going work. It's clearly pandering."

At a Mexican restaurant in Woodburn, Ore., Obama got into a brief conversation with Marcie Crawford, a 41-year-old social service worker. She later said that she's generally voted Republican but was planning to pick Obama over McCain this fall. "He's believable," she said. "He seems to believe in what I believe in, the need for changing the way things are. He's more forward looking, not backward looking." She felt this way even though, she said, "I understand that some of the things he stands for I'm against."

And among several thousand turning out to see Obama in Albany, Ore., was Tom Ottenheimer, a 44-year-old independent and engineer who he had voted for Republican presidential candidates in the past but was considering Obama over McCain because of the Iraq war. "I don't know why we got into the war," he said. "It's like a fistfight. I wouldn't want to hit you until you had wound up to punch me, right?"

By Web Politics Editor  |  May 11, 2008; 11:21 AM ET
 
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Comments

Katerina Deligiannis:

There are so many lies and inconsistencies in your comments that you must be off in lalaland. Obama was not law professor, he did not work at in the White House as a lawyer. All rest is fantasy or just a fairy tale or worse. It has no logic, truth or anything.

Posted by: Katherine | May 16, 2008 12:51 AM | Report abuse

Regarding Jack Randall, he missed the whole point. Hillary was trying to show the average person, not the people like Jack Randall who can afford as much gas as he wants, that sheHillary sympathizes and understands about the gas tax holiday. People like Jack Randall don't always look at the full picture or at what is really said. He only cares about his own viewpoint and is not openminded. He ignores the fact that Obama voted for the BushCheney energy bill which was a real ripoff for the American people.

Posted by: Katherine | May 15, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

OBAMA adds SUPER (update)

SuperBowl
285 of 795 Obama tool LEAD May 12
272 of 795 Clinton
238 Super Remain 189 Elected + 5 WV


Nomination Countdown
142 to 2025 Obama
322 to 2025 Clinton 432 Total Delegate Remain

KY 51 OR 53

Go OBAMA

Posted by: Delegate Math | May 14, 2008 8:19 AM | Report abuse

SuperBowl

284 of 795 Obama took LEAD May 12
272 of 795 Clinton
239 Super Remain 189 Elected

Nomination Countdown
143 to 2025 Obama
311 to 2025 Clinton 433 delegates remain

KY 51 OR 53

Go OBAMA GO Oregon

Posted by: Delegate Math | May 14, 2008 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Peter Paul vs.Hillary Clinton Election Fraud Case stuffed in a ... - Apr 25 Hillary Clinton Election Fraud Case stuffed in a California Court. by politisite | April 24, 2008 at 12:50 pm | 2624 views | 11 comments ...
www.nowpublic.com/world/peter-paul-vs-hillary-clinton-election-fraud-case-stuffed-california-court - 86k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
Clinton Won't Be Deposed in Fraud Case before November -- 04/29/2008 April 29, 2008 (CNSNews.com) - A fundraising controversy involving Hillary Clinton's 2000 Senate run that has moved through California's courts for about ...
www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200804/NAT20080429a.html - 22k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
Peter Paul Statement of Hillary Clinton's Illegalities to California Appellate Court- ... false FEC reports - felony charges for which Rosen faced 15 years in jail. ...
www.peterfpaul.com/ - 36k


Mr. Obama has condemned Hamas, a militant Palestinian group, as a terrorist organization,2004

Mr. Obama after returning from a stint as White House counsel for PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON to teach law at the university.

While he said the Iraq war would lead to "an occupation of undetermined length with undetermined costs and undetermined consequences," he was also careful to emphasize that there were times when military intervention was necessary. 2002

Posted by: Katerina Deligiannis | May 12, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

He is already the 44th President of the United States of America. He is the man of the new frontiers. He is doing well, very well: the rebirth of the US economy, the end of the Irak war, the fight against global warming and the avoidance of a nuclear war with China are most of his achievements. History remember him as the best commander in chief of all time. History is to be repeated unless we save him from the dark forces. They are planning again to kill the hope of a better place for our children. They did it successfully 45 years ago. The future does not exist; we are building it.

Posted by: Abel | May 12, 2008 9:41 PM | Report abuse

The press is so remiss, it has become predictable. I no longer need to review reports to note their accuracy, only to be astonished if news is reported at all.
in this instance, i reflect on the fact: W. virginia and Kentucky will be hosting primaries tomorrow. of course, Hillary is expected to win. apparently, the formerly respected W.Post is now operating out of someone else's 'deep pockets'. wondering if obama affiliates are paying them for their fine collaboration. not to worry, eventually, TIME will tell.

It all so pathetic. obama supporters are so -
can you all even hear yourselves, you scream about hillary being nasty and call her every name in the book. and, then, say your candidate is the "candidate of change" - "god help us all" who are you? honestly, the mean spiritedness is appalling. it is just plain ugly. and, you say you support and reflect the ideals of the "who?" really? the way you portray hillary is the way your candidate will be viewed. do you get that? do you understand that any one in their right mind - would not want to vote for a man, who is being represented by your disparaging characterizations of his opponent? it is sickening. grow up. take some responsibility for what you say and, think before you speak. to me, you come across like a bunch of hyenas.

do you think this is an American Idol contest? c'mon. he is inspiring? what does he inspire you to do - besides, vote for him?

you go ahead and enjoy, relish the media bias, favoring your candidate. but, let me tell you - you will find - the media, the press does not give a hoot about america. it uses its freedoms and abuses its power, manipulating the truth - to its own ends. it is the 'catch 22'. it has immunity from prosecution. did we not find this with judith Miller? have you not learned anything from the election 2000? "compassionate bush" vs. "wooden gore"? or, the failure to report news pre-iraq -the failure to report any in depth or investigative news re: the validity of bush's claims? the failure to report news that had anything to do with millions around the world, who were protesting the war. nay. simply put, the press, was bush's bull horn. completely inept and incompetent. it is without ethics or moral standards. the only time the press focuses on these concerns, pertaining to moral or ethical standards is if it makes a good story line re: some outlandish perversion. and now, you want to trust them to select the next president?

don't lament, you still have time to think for yourselves. base your vote on facts, not emotions. be objective. what specifically does the president of the United States need to do address
and solve the issues and concerns, facing America? who can best do this? and, on what evidence are you basing your opinion? remember: we went to war in iraq, not because of evidence - but, because of emotion and that emotion was - fear, designed by the bush administration and dealt by the press to the public- w/o the benefit fo facts to support the claims. remember: we went to war - before the inspections were complete, we went to war, though the inspectors had failed to find any evidence of weapons.

now, the media/press has created their "hero" and "monster". it makes a good story FOR THEM. do you see? you need to sort out the facts and when you do, you (as individuals will be taking the first steps toward "taking back america".) we must do this: think for ourselves. think for your self. you can do it. facts. no ideology. facts: allowing for critical thinking. be fearless.

do you know why the media/press has it in for the Clintons? because the Clintons see through them and Bill withstood them and succeeded, in spite of all their efforts to counter. who won? we did. we won. America won.

now, America is losing. it has lost its leadership - in measurable terms in many roles worldwide. that is a fact. we are being surpassed - in innovative thinking, finances, healthcare, technology, manufacturing, education, image, and retail. (see Newsweek magazine, 5/9/08; article by foriegn journalist)) please, stop letting the press dictate the thinking for you. they really do not have your better interests in mind.

and, if after you've sorted through the facts - you can see your way clear to support the delegates in Michigan, being seated (according to actual Michigan votes) - please, also consider encouraging the DNC to include us. it would be the democratic thing to do... if there still is such a thing. sigh ...I am hoping for the best.

Posted by: Michigan | May 12, 2008 8:18 PM | Report abuse

The republicans have voted for Obama from the very beginning to cause mischief in the democrat party. They will vote republican in the fall. They have chosen their candidate to run against in November.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 12, 2008 7:48 PM | Report abuse

This worse than the Dan Quayle "Potatoe" Fiasco--This guy is either an idiot or he confused the US with the 57 Islamic States!

Posted by: USNFlyboy | May 12, 2008 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Don't believe the lies and smears about Obama. He is the one changing this country from the ground level on up. Change that will let the better Republicans and Democrats work together for a stronger America.

Put him over the top Oregon and end this so we can focus on giving the GOP their just desserts!

Posted by: John332 | May 12, 2008 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Have all of you Obama voters done any research on this man? If so, you would be thinking twice about putting him into the White House. He is nothing but a false image, built by Obama with illusionary tales and lies with the media abetting their Golden Boy..He has no accomplishments. He hasn't even called 1 meeting for a committee that he was named to head, in July, 2007. In 12 years of being a Senator, 8 yrs. in Ill. and 4 yrs. in the U.S.Senate, his notable acts are ZIPPO! He still has to prove, after 12 yrs., that he can do something!
The White House is not the place for proving grounds! He has lied to us time after time. He does not admit to the lies, of course. It is we, the voters, who misunderstood, or misconstrued, or misinterpreted, or twisted his words!
No lobbyists? He doesn't need them when he has 79 bundlers, companies which have their employees donate thousands of $'s, then they bundle the money, give it to Obama while whispering in his ear what he can do to help them.General Dynamics, a bundler was paid back with an earmark, last year. Obama has only 78 bundlers left to owe favors to.
Would you like it if Obama kept you from voting in a primary, like he is doing with Michigan & Florida? Instead, he wants the superdelegates to vote for him so he can win the nomination. To insure this, he has donated $674,000 to their committee, as of 3 months ago. Having received $228,000, 24 delegates went to his side, already. How do you like his treatment of Rev. Wright, after the man mentored him, considered him like family, and took him under his wing.
The Rev. was good to have for 23 years but he became too heavy to carry so he was dumped! This is a measure of the man, Obama!Zippo! Think, Oregon! Think and vote, carefully, PLEASE!

Posted by: afed27 | May 12, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

[Out here in the Oregon territory we love Peter DeFazio, one of the growing majority of Superdelegates pushing Obama past the Clintons.

Still there is a nasty hard core of ultra-right creeps in Oregon's suburbs and deserts (yes, most of Oregon's land area is bone dry. That is why Bill Clinton has been campaigning in these places; the Clintons are now in bed with Rush Limbaugh.

Of course they have no shame, we knew that, but the Clintons have chosen a position well to the right of the center now, with their "Reagan Democrat" base.]

You really need to get out of the city once in a while.Most of inhabited Oregon is greener than PDX.Hardcore ultraright creeps?nah these are good people who stand up for what they believe,you can't even admit that your immoral marxists.
The ones who cry bigot are the bigots.Oregon libs seem to be some of the worst.

Posted by: geesh | May 12, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

I always love it when Metro-libs in Oregon slander people who don't live in the cites.(all 3 of them).
You hear comments like,"rural oregonians are rasisct,scary,bad,stupid,etc.This couldn't be farther from the truth.
Talk about bigots.
Sadly this is the Dem base in Oregon and virtually every state in the nation.
You probably won't see Obama in places that don't swing left.Woodburn might look like an average oregon small town but it isn't.It is mostly hispanic,(and russian if i remember right.)
The cowards will never visit places that where people will ask the hard questions and demand real answers.
For once i would like the libs to admit what they are and what they want instead of mouthwhoring to their base.
If you can't admit what you are then you are a cowars and a fool.
Is it so hard to say,We are socialist/marxist?Is it too tough to say we want all the money so we can spread it out among everyone.Instead you use thing like global warming to steal it and gain immense power to boot.
Just friggin say,"we are amoral socialists"
The cowards on the right won't say it either though.Someone needs to.

Posted by: whatever | May 12, 2008 5:14 PM | Report abuse

My daughter lives in Bend, which is a very progressive community. All of her in-laws there (who I thought were more likely to vote GOP) are very enthused about Obama. I hope he wins in a landslide.

Posted by: jude | May 12, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

The New Western Democrat will win elections in the Western States, including Oregon. Oregon, Montana, New Mexico and Colorado voters have taken back their states from the Corporate Land-rapers and Wealthy Ranch owners. Tester in Montana gave the heave-ho to long time, corrupt Conrad Burns, Oregon will dump faux-moderate Gordon Smith this year. They've woken up to the fact that Southern Baptist evangelical moralists can't, and shouldn't, run the country.The environment is key in the fragile Western ecosystems. Water is life, Salmon runs are the "canaries in the coal mines". Watch Bend, OR and East Multnomah County. Obama will take Oregon and the Presidency.

Posted by: thebob.bob | May 12, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Obama won our California county in the primary. Had there not been early voting and Edwards on the ballot, Obama would have beaten Hillary. He will beat McCain here in November.

Posted by: Linda | May 12, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

As a gay man in his 30s I'd like to transcend some arguements and ask the Independents (and ALL of us!) some questions:

Are you fed up with the male/female and black/white issues of this race? Are you tired of each camp telling you what to do, the press telling you what to think about Hillary's chances or Obama's minister, and the DNC offering little less than anxiety and poor leadership?

If your answer is yes consider the next "logical" move: YOU CAN HAVE IT ALL! Vote for the African-American woman running for President and who is 1) opposed to the war; 2) all about peace; 3) wants universal health care; 4) wants significant strides for the African American communities; 5) cares about the environment; 6) fights for civil liberties; 7) is a strong woman; and much more!

FORGET THE "OLD WASHINGTON STYLE" POLITICS OF RIGHT/LEFT, BLACK/WHITE, MALE/FEMALE AND DEMOCRAT/REPUBLIC. SEEK THE MESSAGE OF "REAL CHANGE!" BE AN INDEPENDENT THINKER!

LET'S VOTE FOR SOMEONE UNDERSTAND THAT BLACK IS BEAUTIFUL AND WOMEN ARE STRONG!

VOTE "GREEN" THIS YEAR!

VOTE FOR CYNTHIA MCKINNEY!
http://www.runcynthiarun.org/

Posted by: gaypastor | May 12, 2008 3:28 AM | Report abuse

For all the Clinton supporters who are adamant about Senator Obama not getting the Democrat support in November forget that states like California and New York voted early on; they had not yet seen the Hilliary of many personas and of fraudulant claims and consist lies; they had not yet seen just how nasty Hilliary has played her divisive and race-baiting campaign. I believe that these early voting states have become quite disenchanted with Hilliary and Bill Clinton and their tactics. If they had only known what they and the rest of us know now!! Furthermore, I believe Hilliary has proven she cannot even run her campaign, cannot manage her campaign finances, keeps going broke and has to "loan" her campaign money from her and Bill's joint account, campaign infighting, firings of manager and asst manager; oh and firing but not firing Mark Penn.

My take is if she cannot run a good campaign, cannaot manage her campaign finances and cannot tell the truth, she and Bill have NO business in our White House.

Posted by: NinaK | May 12, 2008 1:37 AM | Report abuse

Mrs. Clinton will not quit until she has destroyed Obama's chances this November. Watch as she now stirs the racist pot, in W. Virginia and elsewhere, repeating that it is impossible for a black man to win white Americans' votes. Instead of appealing to the country's better angels and working for the historical importance for us as a nation to turn the page toward a more perfect union, Hillary is demonizing the entire nation and smearing all of us, especially white Americans, by saying that white Americans will not vote for a black candidate. This is a blatant lie, as proven in Obama's victories in Iowa, Wisconsin, and all across the nation. It is way beyond time for the Democratic Party elders to STOP this madness before she destroys the party, the republic and all our best hopes for the future. No deluded, vicious, power-crazed politician should be given a free pass, even if her name is Clinton and she believes she is entitled to dynastic keys to the White House.Oregon must turn tha page for all of us if the superdelegates will not.

Posted by: shirl | May 12, 2008 1:02 AM | Report abuse

Oregon and Washington are progressive states. We do not live in the past, we keep moving forward with technology, aircraft technology, science, and medical research. Every county in Washington State voted overwhelmingly for Senator Obama! I believe Oregon will do the same.

Hilliary's comment about owning the votes of the working Americans, WHITE Americans, hardworking Americans with less than a college degree and who vote for her, is demaning in two front:

1) Implies ONLY Whites are hardworking!
Where does that leave the "hardworking Latinos, Afican Americans, Asian Americans, and the rest of our melting pot? Are they ALL LAZY and don't work as hard??

2) She is labelling these "White hardworking Americans with less than a college degree" as IGNORANT!! Hey, hardworking White Americans, how does it feel to hear Hilliary calling you IGNORANT and that she owns you and your vote??? I really don't know about you, but I find it extremely offensive! A lot of people without college degrees are extremely smart people---just look at Bill Gates and what he has done. Umm, wonder if Hilliary thinks he is ignorant? Afterall, he is a "hardworking White American with less than a college degree"!! Ummm...

Posted by: NinaK | May 12, 2008 12:57 AM | Report abuse

Another story regarding Bush voters who will now vote for Obama. Still going for the guy they want the beer with, not the guy who can do the job. Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.

As Forest Gump said, "stupid is as stupid does".

Posted by: dyinglikeflies
-------------------------
Wasn't it Hilliary Clinton that was playing "macho" in Indiana by downing a shot of Canadian Crown Whiskey and followed it with a mug of beer??
As for John McCain, I think his 71 years on this planet are going to hurt him. Being a POW does not a President make. I do respect him for his military service and for his POW status, however, that does not qualify him for President. Senator McCain has been an expert flip-flopper in his campaign and listening to him is quite boring and unexciting. AS Rep Murtha said, the Presidency is not a job for old men; Murtha should know, isn't he about 74? The Presidency is a very demanding job and needs a clear thinker and a person of vision. Senator McCain appears to make decisions that affect the now and is not concerned about the future consequences. Like Hillary and her Obliteraing Iran comment, McCain wants to remain in Iraq forever. Enough bloodshed, enough deaths, enough billions poured into an unnecessary war....time to start bringing our troops home at the earliest possible and safe time!

Posted by: NinaK | May 12, 2008 12:39 AM | Report abuse


I stand by my assumption: Barack Obama will win in the fall. Not to sound glib, but neither the RNC, right wing talk radio, the McCain campaign, the droves of "talking points" Republicans, nor John McCain himself have convinced me that he is going to win in November. I hate to sound cavalier, but I'd hardly be excited if I were supporting McCain. It will doubtless be close, but it plays like Bob Dole. Bob Dole & Jack Kemp are both good guys, decent people. But they lacked that "agency," as I like to call it, Which George W. Bush possessed, and still possesses, I think. John McCain is an avuncular figure, and a refreshing aside from most politicians on TV. But in the end, McCain is a country club Republican. Again, a good guy, many would rightly say a great man, but not the right guy. He's clearly well liked, well respected, and will probably continue to be. But he is not activating anyone in the way that George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, or Ronald Reagan have (or do). This strikes me as problematic. The right wingers on TV are getting really excited at premature polling, and singular slices of the electorate. Meantime, the Obama campaign and people like me are seeing the bigger, broader picture: this is going to happen.


Three worst issues for John McCain this fall, in increasing order of importance: 1) "...the economy, stupid!" This really holds up. This more than anything else engenders my confidence in Obama. He's going to look like the resident expert next to John McCain. McCain's admitted deficits regarding the issue of the economy provide me with little confidence in his ability to steward the ship. This is transparent to me, and to Joe Six Pack, Mike Middle Class and Bonnie Broke. The right wing talking heads on tv & radio have more faith in their own ability to race-bait and play McCarthyism. I welcome the challenge, dear friends.
2) The Iraq War. BOOOOHH!! People are done with this war. It has been managed ineptly at best. People need to hear that this thing is coming to a close, not that the RNC & John McCain know what victory really looks like, and that they'll tell us when they think they see it.
3) Abortion. Obama is definitely carrying the under forty crowd this fall, but by how much. This issue could be more helpful for Democrats this year. Firstly, President Bush has recently appointed two very right wing Supreme Court Justices in John Roberts, and even more so in Samuel Alito. These men are hostile to Roe v. Wade and John McCain says they're his model. That means John McCain is hostile to Roe v. Wade, which means he is hostile to women in support of their own personal right to choice, and privacy. John McCain is very vulnerable here because it hurts his image as a maverick, an independent. Plus, I suspect that the far right wing does not feel at home with McCain on this issue, the way they have with George w. Bush or ranld Reagan. McCain has already opened this wound. Women would be wise to re-evaluate how important this issue is to them in the fall. Do two or three more Samuel Alitos on the Supreme Court leave you confident that Roe v. Wade --a woman's right to privacy-- is safe in the hands of John McCain? Not me.

Barack Obama is going to win.


New York City Secession 2010

Posted by: legan00@ccny.cuny.edu | May 11, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse

Notes for Barack Obama's Presidential Campaign: This is going to happen...John McCain's problem with Samuel Alito and Roe v. Wade, and his desperate plea to be accepted by the far right wing.

I stand by my assumption: Barack Obama will win in the fall. Not to sound glib, but neither the RNC(Republican National Committee, right wing talk radio, the McCain campaign, the droves of "talking points" Republicans, nor John McCain himself have convinced me that he is going to win in November. I hate to sound cavalier, but I'd hardly be excited if I were supporting McCain. It will doubtless be close, but it plays like Bob Dole. Bob Dole & Jack Kemp are both good guys, decent people. But they lacked that "agency," as I like to call it, which George W. Bush possessed, and still possesses, I think. John McCain is an avuncular figure, and a refreshing aside from most politicians on TV. But in the end, McCain is a "country club" Republican saddled with the baggage of an awful predecessor in Geore W. Bush. Again, a good guy, many would rightly say a great man, but not the right guy. He's clearly well-liked, well-respected, and will probably continue to be. But he is not activating anyone in the way that George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, or Ronald Reagan have (or do). This strikes me as problematic. The right wingers on TV are getting really excited at premature polling, and at singular slices of the electorate. Meantime, the Obama campaign and people like me are seeing the bigger, broader picture: this is going to happen.


Three worst issues for John McCain this
fall, in increasing order of importance:
1) "...the economy, stupid!" This really holds up. This more than anything else engenders my confidence in Obama's ability to win in November. He's going to look like the resident expert next to John McCain. McCain's admitted deficit regarding the issue of the economy provides me with little confidence in his ability to steward the ship. This is transparent to me, and to Joe Six Pack, Mike Middle Class and Bonnie Broke. The right wing talking heads on tv & radio have more faith in their own ability to race-bait and play McCarthyism. They're so proud of themselves. And I welcome the challenge, dear friends.
2) The Iraq War. BOOOOHH!! People are done with this war. It has been managed ineptly at best. And people need to and want to hear that this thing is coming to a close, not that the RNC & John McCain know what victory really looks like, and that they'll tell us when they think they see it.
3) Abortion. Obama is definitely carrying the under forty crowd this fall, but by how much? The abortion issue could be more helpful for Democrats this year than Republicans. Firstly, President Bush has recently appointed two very right wing Supreme Court Justices in John Roberts, and even more so in Samuel Alito. These men are hostile to Roe v. Wade and John McCain says they're his model justices. That means John McCain is hostile to Roe v. Wade, which means he is hostile to women in support of their own personal right to choice, and privacy! John McCain is very vulnerable here because it hurts his image as a maverick, an independent. Plus, I suspect the far right will never trust him on this issue the way they trusted George W. Bush or Ronald Reagan. Women would be wise to re-evaluate how important this issue is to them in the fall. Do two or three more Samuel Alitos on the Supreme Court leave you confident that Roe v. Wade --a woman's right to privacy-- is safe in the hands of John McCain? Not me, and I have a penis.

Barack Obama is going to win.


New York City Secession 2010

Posted by: legan00@ccny.cuny.edu | May 11, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like a self-serving argument for an Obama supporter, but so much real data argues against it.

Posted by: greenfun | May 11, 2008 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like a self-serving argument for an Obama supporter, but so much real data argues against it.

Posted by: greenfun | May 11, 2008 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Don't forget the dynamics of the race have changed considerably since Clinton won CA. My guess is Obama would perform much better there if CA's primary were held today--especially since Clinton has made a hard turn to the right.

Moreover, just because Clinton won PA and OH in no way indicates that these states will necessarily fall to McSame.

Posted by: brylynloz | May 11, 2008 10:39 PM | Report abuse

Another story regarding Bush voters who will now vote for Obama. Still going for the guy they want the beer with, not the guy who can do the job. Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.

As Forest Gump said, "stupid is as stupid does".

Posted by: dyinglikeflies | May 11, 2008 10:20 PM | Report abuse

The argument that no president has ever been elected without carrying West Virginia is ridiculous. By that logic, no one has ever become president of the United States without being white. So now are Americans to simply vote for white people as presidential candidates? Hate to tell you folks 'But the times - they are a-changin.'

Posted by: woody | May 11, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

The argument that no president has ever been elected without carrying West Virginia is ridiculous. By that logic, no one has ever become president of the United States without being white. So now are Americans to simply vote for white people as presidential candidates? Hate to tell you folks 'But the times - they are a-changin.'

Posted by: Woody | May 11, 2008 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Hillary should pay her own bills.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 11, 2008 9:14 PM | Report abuse

I live in Portland, Or. and I'm glad the Post took note that all swing voters aren't rust belt factory workers. Oregon is interesting: there are a lot of independents, some of them college-educated professionals working in the IT industry, some of them farmers, loggers, schoolteachers, construction workers, medical workers, whatever. Most tend to be socially moderate, ecologically conscientious, tax-averse, anti-Iraq war, non-idealogical, with a libertarian streak.
Obama will do well here, and not simply because Portland is a liberal bastion as it's sometimes portrayed, but because he appeals to the independent, reform-minded population here, (which, as someone above noted, is VERY white).

Posted by: Oregonian | May 11, 2008 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Bend is an odd microsomum in that we have old time rural voters, blue collar voters, upper middle class and new thinking entrepreneurs

What we don't have, I'm embarrassed to say, is a registrable number of blacks. We are the whitest city I've ever lived in.

When Obama takes Bend, it should send a very clear message to Hillary that her race baiting of "hard working, White hard working Americans, won't support Obama"

Hillary has made me ashamed of the feelings I once had for her, buying into her pre-election of 1992 ties to Marian Wright Edelman.

Let's face it the Clintons are known for using whatever cause and people serve their purpose than when that purpose is no longer front and center, they throw them under the bus.

I never cared that Bill got a blow job, what I cared about was his sending aide after aide out there to lie for him, with the aides not knowing they were lying.

A man willing to sell out his closest friends and advisors, to make them spend their own money to hire attorneys for their appearances before the Grand Jury, when he knew he had committed the act that was being investigated, is not a man at all.

While I believe in marriage, and I do admire Hillary for sticking with him, that doesn't mean I respect her ability to judge situations fairly.
Let's face it, she bought the Bush Bull on Iraq, and the Bill Bull on the Blow. It wasn't her husband lying, it was a vast right wing conspiracy.

Her judgment is more than suspect, it is damaged. I believe to damaged to sustain the votes necessary to win over a party as weakened at the Republican party is today.

Does Obama carry baggage? Certainly, but I think Reverend Wright issue is not nearly in the same league as Bill hoodwinking Hillary, or if she knew he'd committed the act, she was disingenouis to us and her close friends. No thank you, we have already had between Bill and Bush 16 years of arrogance and lies.

I hope Hillary does the right thing so I don't have to cast my ballot on May 20th. Drop out Hillary, you can't win the primary. Even with Fuzzy Math!
And drop the issue of Florida and Michigan, they knew the rules, you supported the rules to get in tight with New Hampshire and Iowa, and now, you want the rules changed to suit you. Sounds like Bush in 2000 in Florida.

Enough with both families.

Pander bear Mcsame, nice turn around in the tax cuts, the religious nuts, and Bush's war.

Enough with all of them. Let's give Obama a chance.

Posted by: Bent In Bend | May 11, 2008 8:15 PM | Report abuse

That's what I'm talking about! Think beyond parties. Repubs, Independents, and Dems with similar thoughts on the issues, let us Unite for The Good of this country.

Together, we can help move this country forward from where we are now. I don't agree with everything Obama stands for either. However, on these key issues noted in this article, I am right with you. This isn't about whether you're a Repub, a Dem, or an Independent. Where do you stand on these issues? Let's form a general coalition for the good of this country. Let those of us who care, help push it forward.

United --> '08

C'mon Oregon!! =) Looking forward to seeing you there '08! Supporters, stand ready =)

Posted by: Obama2008 | May 11, 2008 7:26 PM | Report abuse

That's what I'm talking about! Think beyond parties. Repubs, Independents, and Dems with similar thoughts on the issues, let us Unite for The Good of this country.

Together, we can help move this country forward from where we are now. I don't agree with everything Obama stands for either. However, on these key issues noted in this article, I am right with you. This isn't about whether you're a Repub, a Dem, or an Independent. Where do you stand on these issues? Let's form a general coalition for the good of this country. Let those of us who care, help push it forward.

United --> '08

C'mon Oregon!! =) Looking forward to seeing you there '08! Supporters, stand ready =)

Posted by: Obama2008 | May 11, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

That's what I'm talking about! Think beyond parties. Repubs, Independents, and Dems with similar thoughts on the issues, let us Unite for The Good of this country.

Together, we can help move this country forward from where we are now. I don't agree with everything Obama stands for either. However, on these key issues noted in this article, I am right with you. This isn't about whether you're a Repub, a Dem, or an Independent. Where do you stand on these issues? Let's form a general coalition for the good of this country. Let those of us who care, help push it forward.

United --> '08

C'mon Oregon!! =) Looking forward to seeing you there '08! Supporters, stand ready =)

Posted by: Obama2008 | May 11, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

That's what I'm talking about! Think beyond parties. Repubs, Independents, and Dems with similar thoughts on the issues, let us Unite for The Good of this country.

Together, we can help move this country forward from where we are now. I don't agree with everything Obama stands for either. However, on these key issues noted in this article, I am right with you. This isn't about whether you're a Repub, a Dem, or an Independent. Where do you stand on these issues? Let's form a general coalition for the good of this country. Let those of us who care, help push it forward.

United --> '08

C'mon Oregon!! =) Looking forward to seeing you there '08! Supporters, stand ready =)

Posted by: Obama2008 | May 11, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

That's what I'm talking about! Think beyond parties. Repubs, Independents, and Dems with similar thoughts on the issues, let us Unite for The Good of this country.

Together, we can help move this country forward from where we are now. I don't agree with everything Obama stands for either. However, on these key issues noted in this article, I am right with you. This isn't about whether you're a Repub, a Dem, or an Independent. Where do you stand on these issues? Let's form a general coalition for the good of this country. Let those of us who care, help push it forward.

United --> '08

C'mon Oregon!! =) Looking forward to seeing you there '08! Supporters, stand ready =)

Posted by: Obama2008 | May 11, 2008 7:18 PM | Report abuse

As someone who lives in Bend, Oregon, having left California after 40 years due in part to Pete Wilson's reelection, and as a former democrat who left the party in 94 due to the Clintons' abandoning their prior stance on poverty for political gain, and Bill loss the house for the first time in 40 years,
I am sad to say I had to register as a democrat for this primary to stop the Clintons from destroying the party again.

We are only now regaining a majority in the Senate and House, and putting a Clinton back in may very well lead to a resurgence of a dead and dying Republican party corrupted and demoralized after 8 years of the Bush Cheney attack on the financial welfare, good reputation and morale of this country.

I don't know if Obama has the stuff necessary to effect the change we all yearn for in the country, though what type of change differs from person to person.

However I do know that despite what the Clintons believe, Republicans will not cross over due in large part to their hatred of Bill and the though t of him roaming the corridors of the White House again.

While many dems have been touting the economic prosperity of the Clinton years, let us not forget the morass brought on by the steady onslaught of scandals and investigations.

Whitewater, which did not take place while Bill was President, dominated the government's time, resources, and attention.

Anyone who thinks that the Rose Law Firm and other problems with Hilary will not take attention away from the needs of the people are living in a dream world.

There is too much wrong with this country right now for our leaders to be distracted.

We know with McCain, it will be more of the same. The Republican party, to save the Bush legacy, will continue to hide their dirty dealings supress the truth of what lies have been spread to invade Iraq, hide the torturing, dismantle Habeas corpus, restict our freedom of privacy anc movement, outsouce the government functions to no bid contractors with no accountability to anyone but there investors.

It's time to take a fresh start with the country. Maybe Obama can deliver, maybe not, however we know what we'll get with Hillary and McSame. Just more of the same.

Posted by: Bent In Bend | May 11, 2008 6:52 PM | Report abuse

All Democrats need to realize that we would not be where we are as a party--poised to bring comprehensive change to help those who do not have access to the inner workings of the machine--because of the hard work and political maneuvering of the Clintons. Without their tenacity and willingness to dig deep down and fight on Republican terms we now have a credible chance to actually push our mandate forward.

Clinton backers need to understand that Obama supporters know the value of her service to this country and know that without her and her husband (the former President) we would still be licking our wounds after every election. Hillary Clinton was and continues to be the fighter that we needed. But wars end and when they do sides come together, sit down and agree on the terms of a ceasefire. Nominating Hillary Clinton would not bridge the divide in America, it would only prolong the war.

The best leaders are those that know when to follow. As much as I hate to hang the Clintons out to dry I realize that it is their turn to follow the tide that is sweeping through the nation. We have a chance to carry out the agenda that Bill & Hillary Clinton introduced in the 90's and Sen Barack H. Obama is the most likely agent at this point in history to make it happen.

Let's not fight about the importance of the Clintons, but embrace their fight as the reason we are strong. Let's not forget the past by looking too eagerly to the future. Let's come together and use each others' strengths to make this country as strong and fair for all Americans as possible. We are Democrats. WE ARE THE PEOPLE and we have a chance to make the government work for us. Let's not blow it.

Posted by: Unite the Party | May 11, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Calm down, people. This election is ours to win regardless of who wins the primary. The Republicans are discredited. Their divide and conquer strategy is threadbare. Americans have seen what they have given us and it isn't pretty. Time for a change. Vote Democratic in 2008. Hillary Clinton supporters - support our nominee. It has been a close fight, but Obama has won it. Now lets work with Independents and thinking Republicans to take back the White House.

Posted by: Chuck | May 11, 2008 5:54 PM | Report abuse

The last throws of the HRC campaign is bringing out the hardcore nutjobs. Please, in addition to your lip service, open your wallets and contribute to her campaign. She's got bills to pay! How can she continue to fight without your hard earned money?

Posted by: ding-dong-the-witch-is-dead | May 11, 2008 5:36 PM | Report abuse

The nomination fight is over. Senator Obama won it fair and square. He had a much better campaign, well financed, much more organized and the country is ready to move on past the Bush/Clinton dynasties. Hopefully, the Clintons have finally worn out their welcome after the way they have run her campaign. This country deserves much better and we have found that in Senator Obama.

Posted by: Carolyn Grace | May 11, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

The attacks are mostly Republican sock-puppets

There are also many loyal Hillary supporters, understandably saddened.

Of those loyalists, most are anti-war, anti-Bush, loyal Democrats during the aftermath of a heated battle.

Then there are the truly-bitter extreme-loyalists which she will try to convince to remain loyal Democrats in November. Let's see how much influence she still has.

Posted by: eljefejesus | May 11, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

jacksmith===I may be an idiot, but you are a Republican backer, so I guess that makes me up on you. The war is costing us money that we desperately need here at home and these rising fuel prices are partly due to there being so much fuel used in Iraq on wasted missions.

Posted by: LetthemdrinkCrownRoyal | May 11, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

alee21===why would the Democratic Party believe that she would be the better nominee when she hasn't even won a majority of delegates in her own party . This is a preliminary competition. The Democrats were supposed to anoint her the nominee, but saw fit not to. Do you think if we somehow believe this all the Republicans are going to suddenly stop hating her after all these years and anoint her?

Posted by: oldman&theC | May 11, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Calm down, people. This election is ours to win regardless of who wins the primary. The Republicans are discredited. Their divide and conquer strategy is threadbare. Americans have seen what they have given us and it isn't pretty. Time for a change. Vote Democratic in 2008. Hillary Clinton supporters - support our nominee. It has been a close fight, but Obama has won it. Now lets work with Independents and thinking Republicans to take back the White House.

Posted by: Chuck | May 11, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Obama maniacs wake up. These are Democrats venting their frustrations. I am a democrat from Massachusetts and this year we HATE Fat Ted Kennedy and Slimy John Kerry who is going to loose his seat. Massachusetts will be McCain country soon. WATCH OUT

Also, networks like NBC/MSNBC and GE will keeping loosing their shares as we BOYCOTT them. Lapdogs Chris Matthews, Tim Russert and Chris "Dobberman" need to stop sucking upto Obama.

--- A McCain Democrat from Massachusetts

Posted by: Anonymous | May 11, 2008 3:44 PM | Report abuse

This breeze implies change:
Obama throws the bumbs out
Spring kicks Winter out


Sorry McCain,
Obama 08

Posted by: eljefejesus | May 11, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

WHY OBAMA WILL NOT WIN THE GENERAL ELECTION

Lack of proven record of accomplishments
Some of Obama's supporters have defended Obama's thin resume as being unimportant - it's leadership qualities that count. I have certainly seen nothing in Obama's past or in the way he has run his campaign to support that claim. He has not stepped up to denounce Wright until it was too late, he has not stepped up to denounce Clyburn for playing the race card (see below), he has encouraged his campaign to spread disinformation and to bash Clinton at every opportunity. While the Hezbollah was trying to overrun Lebanon, an Obama aide (who has since resigned over the controversy) was apparently doing crisis management with Hamas. Is that a demonstration of leadership qualities? On top of that, Obama has no significant record of accomplishment. I don't think the American public is willing to let Obama experiment with their lives and livelihood.

Tarnished image, propped up by the press
Obama has run every bit as negative a campaign as Hillary yet he can play the victim card and the press is reluctant to call him on it. Every time a primary comes up with a significant black electorate, the black political leadership such as Clyburn makes a big play about the Clintons pushing the race card. Why has Obama not spoken out against that kind of tactic? It is akin to his sitting in Wright's church for 20+ years, listening to the lies that were and are being perpetuated; yet he said nothing.

Unfair dealings practiced by the Obama camp
Obama stole the nomination from Hillary. Why doesn't he support a revote in Michigan and Florida? Despite the rules millions of voters voted thinking that their voices will be heard, now it appears the way they voted will not matter and the delegates will be divided up in a manner that will favor Obama. This is not democracy and the Democratic Party is doomed. More and more people are not aligning themselves with specific parties but will vote for the candidate who is best suited to the job.

Obama has stolen the nomination from Clinton by playing the victim card, by refusing to debate before important primaries, by trucking impressionable college kids to the voting booth, by hypocrisy, by spreading disinformation, by pushing the caucus states where voting is entirely undemocratic, by buying voters through massive ad campaigns. He is most certainly not another JFK nor a Bill Clinton. He is but a typical Chicago politician who has learned how to manipulate the system. Why hasn't the press figured out what is going on with Rezko, Ayers and what Obama did to win his State Senate seat?

Obama's camp embellishes their personal stories shamelessly:
Quoting Adolph Reed from The Progressive, May 2008:
"The Obama campaign has even put out a misleading bio of Michelle Obama, representing her as having grown up in poverty on the South Side, when, in fact, her parents were city workers, and her father was a Daley machine precinct captain. This fabrication, along with those embroideries of the candidate's own biography, may be standard fare, the typical log cabin narrative. However, in Obama's case, the license taken not only underscores Obama's more complex relationship to insider politics in Daley's Chicago; it also underscores how much this campaign depends on selling an image rather than substance."

See article http://www.progressive.org/?q=mag_reed0508

Race card pushed by the Obama camp
Because Hillary and her supporters are stating the voting demographics as they are, somehow she is branded as a racist. What about the fact that 93% of blacks in NC voted for Obama? What do we call that? In fact, not just Whites, but Hispanics and Asians have also supported Hillary in overwhelming numbers. To me, that seems most representative of the US voting public.

As an Asian, I find it disturbing that Obama never even mentions us as a group. His campaign organizers at one of Michelle Obama's events reseated Asians to make room for Whites to be photographed behind Micelle O. That is pretty blatantly racist. Obama is certainly not post racial nor does he stand for unity. More than anyone in recent memory, Obama has peeled open racial scabs and polarized the nation. Obama should drop out if he wants what is best for the country and not what is best for him. The real winner in all this is Axelrod and his ilk, not the American public.

SOLUTION: HILLARY RUNS AS AN INDEPENDENT - save the US's economy, stance in the world and move science/research forward.

Posted by: alee21 | May 11, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

War an Recession
Obama wants to bring change;
McCain's lost again

Posted by: eljefejesus | May 11, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

It's disappointing that the "unity" candidate based his campaign on division and hate.
But Obama's race-baiting and manufacturing racist charges against the Clintons was for the sole purpose of smearing the "first Black president" and his wife.

We've fought racism and would never vote for a race-baiter!
Go Hillary!


Posted by: Jim | May 11, 2008 2:35 PM

****************************
It is equally disappointing to see that in the zeal to support Clinton, some of her so called supporters feel free to make up unsupported allegations and and lies and yet have the nerve to call Senator Obama a "race baiter". It disappointing to have to determine whether such a supporter is a total fool or incredibly venal liar. I agree, Jim, it is disappointing...

Obama '08

Posted by: LABC | May 11, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

It's disappointing that the "unity" candidate based his campaign on division and hate.
But Obama's race-baiting and manufacturing racist charges against the Clintons was for the sole purpose of smearing the "first Black president" and his wife.

We've fought racism and would never vote for a race-baiter!
Go Hillary!


Posted by: Jim | May 11, 2008 2:35 PM

****************************
It is equally disappointing to see that in the zeal to support Clinton, some of her so called supporters feel free to make up unsupported allegations and and lies and yet have the nerve to call Senator Obama a "race baiter". It disappointing to have to determine whether such a supporter is a total fool or incredibly venal liar. I agree, Jim, it is disappointing...

Obama '08

Posted by: LABC | May 11, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

I want someone to lead (Obama) AND I want someone to go hunting Republcan Turkey! Let's give our newly minted red-neck crusader, Hillary, some Ammo (Senate Majority leader) and set her loose. Go get 'em Hillary!!

Posted by: thebob.bob | May 11, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

p.s. I have been under heavy attacks for some time now. But it wont stop me. :-)

Posted by: jacksmith | May 11, 2008 2:28 PM

*****************************
And yet, you keep printing the same sh**, so who is the real idiot?

Posted by: currently on EBAY: jacksmith's brain, purchased as is with no reserve -special packaging as it oozes | May 11, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Hillary is entitled to finish out the primaries. If there is some radical shift that changes things in her favor fine.

In the likely event that she remains behind once the primaries are over in June, she has a couple of choices: (1) find a way to honorably exit (2) be forced out by the superdelegates and DNC leadership. The second option would burn bridges and diminish chances of Hillary Clinton gaining appointments in government or DNC leadership positions in the future. For instance, Howard Dean ran the DNC, and ran for president in 2004, but also left the race on his own terms. Had Dean been forced out he likely wouldn't have been running the party.

Posted by: A dem | May 11, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Hillary is entitled to finish out the primaries. If there is some radical shift that changes things in her favor fine.

In the likely event that she remains behind once the primaries are over in June, she has a couple of choices: (1) find a way to honorably exit (2) be forced out by the superdelegates and DNC leadership. The second option would burn bridges and diminish chances of Hillary Clinton gaining appointments in government or DNC leadership positions in the future. For instance, Howard Dean ran the DNC, and ran for president in 2004, but also left the race on his own terms. Had Dean been forced out he likely wouldn't have been running the party.

Posted by: A dem | May 11, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Hillary is entitled to finish out the primaries. If there is some radical shift that changes things in her favor fine.

In the likely event that she remains behind once the primaries are over in June, she has a couple of choices: (1) find a way to honorably exit (2) be forced out by the superdelegates and DNC leadership. The second option would burn bridges and diminish chances of Hillary Clinton gaining appointments in government or DNC leadership positions in the future. For instance, Howard Dean ran the DNC, and ran for president in 2004, but also left the race on his own terms. Had Dean been forced out he likely wouldn't have been running the party.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 11, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Democrats, there is good inside you, I can feel it(Waaaaaay down in there!).

To the Dark Side you have succumbed, you have!

Evil is the Dark Side, Corrupt you it will!

Move AWAY from the Dark Side! Before it is too late!

The Force is STRONG with the RepubliCANS! Americans they are! Darth Soros, and Darth Daschle have led you down the Dark Path, they have!

RUN from them and their Stooge, you should!

Come back to the Light! To the Big Tent you should come!

Yes-Yes, to the Big Tent!

AWAY from the World Labor Party and the Dark Side! ;~)

Posted by: YODA | May 11, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Just wondering why a term "IDIOT' could get a pass in this commentary section. It doesn't sound civil.

Posted by: Mer | May 11, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Back on topic which I think is Oregon or possibly educated voters. For the past several primaries (Ohio, Pennsylvania and Indiana) educated voters are getting marginalized or grouped as elitist. The important vote , according to HRC, is the working people, hard working people, the white people. Hey, I am white, working, hard working and educated. Maybe I should split my vote. We have been pushing education for quite a while and now that the educated people are not voting for her, the important votes are the uneducated.

Does this mean that non-whites are not hardworking. The media has been pretty easy on her and not pressing her for more elaboration on her comments.

Finally, Hillary lost me at the beginning when she said she was battle tested and ready to fight the republicans. I actually want someone to lead our country forward, not continue to fight the same battles over again.

Posted by: bill (from Oregon) | May 11, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

It's disappointing that the "unity" candidate based his campaign on division and hate.
But Obama's race-baiting and manufacturing racist charges against the Clintons was for the sole purpose of smearing the "first Black president" and his wife.

We've fought racism and would never vote for a race-baiter!
Go Hillary!

Posted by: Jim | May 11, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

It's disappointing that the "unity" candidate based his campaign on division and hate.
But Obama's race-baiting and manufacturing racist charges against the Clintons was for the sole purpose of smearing the "first Black president" and his wife.

We've fought racism and would never vote for a race-baiter!
Go Hillary!

Posted by: Jim | May 11, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

shrink2 - FYI - Obama is a centrist.
Please stay informed.

Posted by: William | May 11, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Obama's "change Washington" meme is another scam because the Washington establishment supports him!
If they really wanted to "change Washington" they would have done it a long time ago.
But Obama is their puppet - and he'll obey them.

Posted by: Frank | May 11, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Where is the front page coverage of Obama's "I've visited 57 states" gaffe? The public should know that one of the leading candidates for President doesn't even know first grade US geography.

Posted by: Tirade | May 11, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

MY FELLOW "BITTER", STUPID, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE :-)

If you think like Barack Obama, that WORKING CLASS PEOPLE are just a bunch of "BITTER"!, STUPID, PEASANTS, Cash COWS!, and CANNON FODDER. :-(

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary's than they had ever been before or since.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. :-)

Best regards

jacksmith... Working Class :-)

p.s. You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you don't know that the huge amounts of money funding the Obama campaign to try and defeat Hillary Clinton is coming in from the insurance, and medical industry, that has been ripping you off, and killing you and your children. And denying you, and your loved ones the life saving medical care you needed. All just so they can make more huge immoral profits for them-selves off of your suffering...

You see, back in 1993 Hillary Clinton had the audacity, and nerve to try and get quality, affordable universal health care for everyone to prevent the suffering and needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of you each year. :-)

Approx. 100,000 of you die each year from medical accidents from a rush to profit by the insurance, and medical industry. Another 120,000 of you die each year from treatable illness that people in other developed countries don't die from. And I could go on, and on...

OBAMA AIDE: "WORKING-CLASS VOTERS NOT KEY FOR DEMOCRATS" :o

p.s. I have been under heavy attacks for some time now. But it wont stop me. :-)

Posted by: jacksmith | May 11, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

So you are not a true demarcate.
So you don't care about the country beyond your own selfish wants.
So you don't care about the war and the number of guys who will die if you aid in helping Mccain win.
So you don't care about the economy.
So you don't care about gas maybe going to $8.00 a gallon.
By the way Hillary said just yesterday that she believed gas will be over $5.00 a gallon by this July.
So do what your heart tells you if your hate goes that deep.
I think you need to take a long hard look inside yourself.
If Obama wins you will still benefit even though you did little to help your fellow Americans when they needed you.
Last but not least, your comments are pretty much what I would expect from a Hillary supporter and that is exactly what Obama has been running against from the beginning.
I feel sorry for you.


))))))))))))))
Catherine I share your sentiments 100 per cent. For 2 months I have been here begging the Obama supporters to back off and show some respect to their opponents or they will permanently destroy the party. Obama supporters have repeatedly said in a gestapo manner to either get in line or lea ve the party. So after spending 30 years as a paety activist I have decided to accept their challenge. I won t be a part of a party of teamster thugs who deliberately hold back the vote in Gary til 2 am to control the primsry spin and deliberately stop a revote in 2 of our largest states. These know it all Obama supporters will deserv e the wrath they will get from 16 million HC supporters. And after tues I suggest they not wate their time or energy in W Va who will totally trounce him. Proud you now have another supporter. At least they have had better since then to tell the Huckabee and Romney supporters to leave the party as expressed by the totally obnoxious Obama campaign. Don t gravel when you need our votes in Nov.We warned you and your response was to tell us to go to h+++.

Posted by: Leichtman | May 11, 2008 10:23 AM

Posted by: happy | May 11, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Obama lacks experience??? Look at the mess we are in with Chaney & Rumsfeld. Washington politicians with experience have
led the USA down a road to destruction. We need good decision-
makers more than capitol-hill experience.

Posted by: HerbLes | May 11, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Where is the front page coverage of Obama's "I've visited 57 states" gaffe?

The pro-Obama slant of the WaPo is really disappointing.

Posted by: Tirade | May 11, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

MY FELLOW "BITTER", STUPID, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE :-)

If you think like Barack Obama, that WORKING CLASS PEOPLE are just a bunch of "BITTER"!, STUPID, PEASANTS, Cash COWS!, and CANNON FODDER. :-(

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary's than they had ever been before or since.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. :-)

Best regards

jacksmith... Working Class :-)

p.s. You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you don't know that the huge amounts of money funding the Obama campaign to try and defeat Hillary Clinton is coming in from the insurance, and medical industry, that has been ripping you off, and killing you and your children. And denying you, and your loved ones the life saving medical care you needed. All just so they can make more huge immoral profits for them-selves off of your suffering...

You see, back in 1993 Hillary Clinton had the audacity, and nerve to try and get quality, affordable universal health care for everyone to prevent the suffering and needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of you each year. :-)

Approx. 100,000 of you die each year from medical accidents from a rush to profit by the insurance, and medical industry. Another 120,000 of you die each year from treatable illness that people in other developed countries don't die from. And I could go on, and on...

OBAMA AIDE: "WORKING-CLASS VOTERS NOT KEY FOR DEMOCRATS" :o

p.s. I have been under heavy attacks for some time now. But it wont stop me. :-)

Posted by: jacksmith | May 11, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Paul seems to forget in his post that the primary votes and the general election votes are two entirely different beasts. Clinton may well have won more "electoral votes," but the primary competition isn't about amassing electoral votes, nor is counting up the electoral votes of primary states won even a good measure for choosing a nominee.

Obama will win states like California and New York in November. There are states in this country that would vote a cockatoo in the the presidency provided it had a "D" after its name.

Likewise, do you honestly believe that Clinton would win Oklahoma or Texas or Arizona in the fall? She won primaries in all of those states, but any Democrat is likely to lose those states in November's presidential vote.

The question is not who can win more big states or theoretical electoral votes during the primaries, but who has the best chance of winning the most electoral votes in the fall. There is, of course, no perfect way of predicting or measuring what November will look like, but we have to keep in mind that all of the Democrats getting together and voting in a primary between Democratic candidates gives a very weak indicator of how that same state will vote when all of the voters choose between a Democrat and a Republican.

There's no point in Clinton's campaign continuing to play these math games and in turning the nomination into a moving target. Convention delegates are the measure that matters in the nomination, and Democrats would do well to think about how the candidate that this system has produced can win in the fall instead of inventing new shell games.

Posted by: blert | May 11, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

MY FELLOW "BITTER", STUPID, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE :-)

If you think like Barack Obama, that WORKING CLASS PEOPLE are just a bunch of "BITTER"!, STUPID, PEASANTS, Cash COWS!, and CANNON FODDER. :-(

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary's than they had ever been before or since.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. :-)

Best regards

jacksmith... Working Class :-)

p.s. You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you don't know that the huge amounts of money funding the Obama campaign to try and defeat Hillary Clinton is coming in from the insurance, and medical industry, that has been ripping you off, and killing you and your children. And denying you, and your loved ones the life saving medical care you needed. All just so they can make more huge immoral profits for them-selves off of your suffering...

You see, back in 1993 Hillary Clinton had the audacity, and nerve to try and get quality, affordable universal health care for everyone to prevent the suffering and needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of you each year. :-)

Approx. 100,000 of you die each year from medical accidents from a rush to profit by the insurance, and medical industry. Another 120,000 of you die each year from treatable illness that people in other developed countries don't die from. And I could go on, and on...

OBAMA AIDE: "WORKING-CLASS VOTERS NOT KEY FOR DEMOCRATS" :o

p.s. I have been under heavy attacks for some time now. But it wont stop me. :-)

Posted by: jacksmith | May 11, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Paul seems to forget in his post that the primary votes and the general election votes are two entirely different beasts. Clinton may well have won more "electoral votes," but the primary competition isn't about amassing electoral votes, nor is counting up the electoral votes of primary states won even a good measure for choosing a nominee.

Obama will win states like California and New York in November. There are states in this country that would vote a cockatoo in the the presidency provided it had a "D" after its name.

Likewise, do you honestly believe that Clinton would win Oklahoma or Texas or Arizona in the fall? She won primaries in all of those states, but any Democrat is likely to lose those states in November's presidential vote.

The question is not who can win more big states or theoretical electoral votes during the primaries, but who has the best chance of winning the most electoral votes in the fall. There is, of course, no perfect way of predicting or measuring what November will look like, but we have to keep in mind that all of the Democrats getting together and voting in a primary between Democratic candidates gives a very weak indicator of how that same state will vote when all of the voters choose between a Democrat and a Republican.

There's no point in Clinton's campaign continuing to play these math games and in turning the nomination into a moving target. Convention delegates are the measure that matters in the nomination, and Democrats would do well to think about how the candidate that this system has produced can win in the fall instead of inventing new shell games.

Posted by: blert | May 11, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Paul Jepsen, California will not vote for a Republican. California is safe for any Democrat. And Ohio and Pennsylvania will think twice about McCain when they realize how much he love NAFTA.

Posted by: Adam | May 11, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Paul Jepsen, California will not vote for a Republican. California is safe for any Democrat.

Posted by: Adam | May 11, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Comments like Paul Jepsen about California are delusional. California will vote for Obama in November over McCain. Just because Hillary won a state does not mean that the state would not also go for Obama. That has been the fallacy of her argument. That those who vote for her won't vote for Obama. Those some exit polls show that a small number of people say they won't vote for him, they have months to change their mind when they find out what McCain is really like. McCain likes NAFTA just fine. He will stay in Iraq. He is solidly anti-abortion. And though he is a veteran is is voting against good benefits for Iraq War Veterans.

Posted by: Adam | May 11, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Comments like Paul Jepsen about California are delusional. California will vote for Obama in November over McCain. Just because Hillary won a state does not mean that the state would not also go for Obama. That has been the fallacy of her argument. That those who vote for her won't vote for Obama. Though some exit polls show that a small number of people say they won't vote for him, they have months to change their mind when they find out what McCain is really like. McCain likes NAFTA just fine. He will stay in Iraq. He is solidly anti-abortion. And though he is a veteran he is voting against good benefits for Iraq War Veterans.

Posted by: Adam | May 11, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Who cares about Oregon? Is there any people living in that state at all?

Posted by: God Father | May 11, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

How the West was won.

Looking at a map of America, the land west of the Mississippi to the eastern border of the Coast states is a red swath. McCain lives in this swath of Republicans - but many are beginning to disagree with him.

Western Republicanism is more family identity than personal identity or conviction. Expect to see McCain be the last Republican in this swath to be considered a favorite.

Posted by: D Myty | May 11, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

The mainstream media only concentrates on the East, but out west there are plenty of independents who have tired of the Bush/Clinton dynasty and will vote for Obama and change. The media is out of touch as well, these days.

Posted by: Adam | May 11, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

I lived in Oregon for 30 years and Florida for the past 5. The two states have some things in common, particularly along the I-4 corridor between Tampa and Orlando where many new independents are registered. On the other hand, it's like living on different planets in a political sense in places like Sarasota County where Katherine Harris represented a mostly republican district. With that said, Florida is much in play for Obama IF Clinton goes all out in supporting him.
Excellent comment about how different these western states are from the rust belt places. You get the feeling out west and in places like Florida that the best days are ahead and this could be true for the Obama camptaign to snatch some electoral votes in hitherto republican places.

Posted by: John | May 11, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

It's not just Oregon that has a substantial percentage of Independents.

Here in Florida, like many other states, Independents are not allowed to vote in the primary elections. Therefore, the Dems and Repubs like to claim a "majority" by ignoring the Independents and the media goes along with that deception.

However, in November, the Independents will have a large say in who becomes President and that vote will go to Obama long before it goes to McCain or Clinton.

..

Posted by: DFinFL | May 11, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Adam in his post seems to forget that in February this year Senator Clinton won the California primary, and in November Oregon has 7 electoral votss, California has mmmmmm, 55.
And oh yes Ohio has 20 and Pennsylvania 21.

Also in November it takes 270 electoral votes to become President. If you just look at the States Clinton has won versus Obama, She has a total 295 electoral votes; he has 217.

Posted by: Paul Jepsen | May 11, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Adam in his post seems to forget that in February this year Senator Clinton won the California primary, and in November Oregon has 7 electoral votss, California has mmmmmm, 55.
And oh yes Ohio has 20 and Pennsylvania 21.

Also in November it takes 270 electoral votes to become President. If you just look at the States Clinton has won versus Obama, She has a total 295 electoral votes; he has 217.

Posted by: Paul Jepsen | May 11, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Adam in his post seems to forget that in February this year Senator Clinton won the Cslifornia primary, and in November Oregon has 7 electoral votss, California has mmmmmm, 55.
And oh yes Ohio has 20 and Pennsylvania 21.

Finally if you count the electoral votes of the states Clinton has won versus the ones Obama has won this year. She has a total electoral vote total of 295 versus 217 for him, It takes 270 to become President.

Posted by: Paul Jepsen | May 11, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

The mainstream media believes the only world that matters is to the East. Here in the West, we know how badly Hillary would do here against McCain. Independents are everywhere and they are sick of the War, but they are also sick of the Clintons and the Bush/Clinton dynasty. And the way Hillary and Bill have been campaigning so dirty and divisively only emphasizes this more to these voters.

Posted by: Adam | May 11, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

There is an element in the demographics of this contest, that tends to be oevrlooked. he influence of the fact that many Obama voters are newbies and have never shown up in a voter demographic before. It dilutes the results and is one main reason why Hillary Clinton lost. She simply worked on the presumption that things are as they were eight years ago:

http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/project-post-mortem-iii-inevitability-and-hubris-and-why-obama-will-win-in-november/

Posted by: European_Elitist | May 11, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

There is an element in the demographics of this contest, that tends to be oevrlooked. he influence of the fact that many Obama voters are newbies and have never shown up in a voter demographic before. It dilutes the results and is one main reason why Hillary Clinton lost. She simply worked on the presumption that things are as they were eight years ago:

http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/project-post-mortem-iii-inevitability-and-hubris-and-why-obama-will-win-in-november/

Posted by: European_Elitist | May 11, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Out here in the Oregon territory we love Peter DeFazio, one of the growing majority of Superdelegates pushing Obama past the Clintons.

Still there is a nasty hard core of ultra-right creeps in Oregon's suburbs and deserts (yes, most of Oregon's land area is bone dry. That is why Bill Clinton has been campaigning in these places; the Clintons are now in bed with Rush Limbaugh.

Of course they have no shame, we knew that, but the Clintons have chosen a position well to the right of the center now, with their "Reagan Democrat" base.

Posted by: shrink2 | May 11, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

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