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Ohio Voting Machines Contained Programming Error That Dropped Votes

By Mary Pat Flaherty
A voting system used in 34 states contains a critical programming error that can cause votes to be dropped while being electronically transferred from memory cards to a central tallying point, the manufacturer acknowledges.

The problem was identified after complaints from Ohio elections officials following the March primary there, but the logic error that is the root of the problem has been part of the software for 10 years, said Chris Riggall, a spokesman for Premier Election Solutions, formerly known as Diebold.

The flawed software is on both touch screen and optical scan voting machines made by Premier and the problem with vote counts is most likely to affect larger jurisdictions that feed many memory cards to a central counting database rapidly.

Riggall said he was "confident" that elections officials through the years would have realized votes had been dropped when they crosschecked their tallies to certify final elections results and would have reloaded cards so as not to lose votes. Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner has said no Ohio votes were lost because the nine Ohio counties that found the problem caught it before primary results were finalized.

As recently as May, Premier said the problem was not of its making but stemmed from anti-virus software that Ohio had installed on its machines. It also briefly said the mistakes could have come from human mistakes. Further testing by Ohio elections officials and then high volume tests by Premier uncovered the programming error.

"We are indeed distressed that our previous analysis of this issue was in error," Premier President Dave Byrd wrote Tuesday in a letter that was hand-delivered to Brunner. Premier and Brunner are in an ongoing court battle over the voting machines and whether Premier violated its contract with the state and warranties. Half of the Ohio's 88 counties use the GEMS system. Brunner has been a vocal critic of electronic voting machines,

Both Brunner and Premier said that remedies to the problem will be in place for the November presidential election. A nationwide customer alert with recommended actions was issued Tuesday by Premier. Approximately 1,750 jurisdictions use the flawed system, Riggall said. Both Maryland and Virginia use it, he said, although Virginia does not relay its votes to a central counting point, which is where the problem surfaces, Riggall said. Maryland does use a central count, he said. The District of Columbia does not use the GEMS system.

The problem is most likely to affect larger jurisdictions that upload multiple memory cards during counts, Riggall said. The GEMS system is supposed to save information from one card at a time to be counted in order as the cards are read by a database that Riggall described as the "mother ship." But a logic error in the program can cause incoming votes to essentially shove aside other votes that are waiting in the electronic line before they are counted. The mistake occurs in milliseconds, Premier's customer notice says.

The mistake is not immediately apparent, Riggall said, and would have to be caught when elections officials went to match how many memory cards they fed into a central database against how many show as being read by that database. Each card carries a unique marker.

Officials in Butler County, Ohio -- north of Cincinnati -- were the first to raise the issue when 150 votes from a card dropped in March. Brunner's office originally said that 11 counties had the same problem but has since revised that to nine. Her office was not able to say how many dropped votes were discovered in those jurisdictions.

"I can't provide odds on whether dropped votes were not recognized" during the decade GEMS has been used, Rigall said, "but based on what we know about how our customers run their elections and reconcile counts we believe any results not uploaded on election night would have been caught when elections were being certified."

In his letter to Ohio's Brunner, Premier's president said, "Voters in jurisdictions Premier serves, both in Ohio and throughout the country, can be assured that election officials employing standard canvass and crosscheck procedures will count their votes completely and accurately."

Unlike other software, the problem acknowledged by Premier cannot be fixed by sending out a coding fix to its customers because of federal rules for certifying election systems, Rigall said. Changes to systems must go through the Election Assistance Commission, he said, and take two years on average for certification and approval -- and that is apart from whatever approvals and reviews would be needed by each elections board throughout the country.

Brunner said she appreciated "the forthrightness" of Byrd in his letter to her and commended Butler County officials "who went above and beyond the call of duty" to pursue the problem.

"As far as I know, we have not seen that problem," with dropped votes, said Ross Goldstein, deputy administrator for Maryland's State Board of Elections. Maryland counties do upload results to a central system -- which is what generates county vote totals on election night -- but state procedures call for counties to reload every memory card the day after the election to doublecheck results, Goldstein said.

The safeguards that Premier calls for its in customer alert, he said, already are in place in Maryland.

By Web Politics Editor  |  August 21, 2008; 5:09 PM ET
Categories:  B_Blog , Battlegrounds , The Hidden Campaign  
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Comments

Your state lottery machines have way better security than the voting machines, but of course the lottery involves money, which is way more important than counting votes. If you want to see what good security looks like, go to Las Vegas and see how the state gaming comission regulates the integrity of the electronic gambling machines. Why are voters not entitled to the same level of security?

Posted by: Dan | August 28, 2008 12:20 AM | Report abuse

Yes TW, and let's ask the foxes if the chickenhouse is secure.

Posted by: North Carolinian | August 26, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Here in Vancouver, Canada for our local civic elections we use a simple electronic counting machine that takes paper ballots and tabulates it immediately. Also, if the ballot is damaged/spoiled the voter knows right away and the scrutineers can create a proper paper trail to replace the damaged ballot. This also means that there is always a paper trail of the actual ballots cast and they are recounted by hand if contested by any candidate. Our Canadian federal elections are all done on paper ballot with scrutineers of the main political parties present at each polling station keeping an eye out for irregularities - seems to work fine for our country...

Posted by: jr | August 26, 2008 4:43 AM | Report abuse

So...based on the words of the previous commenters, voting machines are a conspiracy (which is done so badly that the president of one of their makers publically promoting his allegence to the Republican party), easily made to work right (I'm wondering how many people here actually understand the American electoral system - it's way more complicated than you think), treasonous (errors are not treason, they're 'errors'), and everyone here knows more about what's going on than even the people who make the software and hardware involved, and yet everyone missed the bit about the certification process that actually makes correcting these mistakes difficult and expensive, while obviously failing to prevent them.

So, here's MY question: rather than speculating, why not go ASK Premier? Has anyone tried?

Posted by: TW | August 25, 2008 8:44 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure if anyone has thought about this at all. I am a software developer and I keep wondering what kind of idiots work for this company. Granted I know nothing about programming a voting machine, but how hard can it be to count the number of votes for each candidate, etc. and report the numbers at the end of the day.
So either they hired morons, because they couldn't get someone better, or it was intentional.

Posted by: Robert Chitoiu | August 25, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Voting system is deliberately rigged on an "open" basis. ATM machines are more secure than that. There's no reason for this. Want to know more information on why votes are rigged and who benefits from it? As well as some information on Obama and McCain? Try this article on for size.

http://warofillusions.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/selection-08-buyer-beware-v2/

Posted by: Stefan | August 25, 2008 9:01 AM | Report abuse

First off let me say that i love your blog roughlydaily.wordpress.com a lot
now.. back to the post hehe
I cant say that i agree with what you wrote... care to explain deeper?

Posted by: christian | August 25, 2008 2:19 AM | Report abuse

Will the second American revolution commence with "resistance" against anything or anyone sporting the logo of one of these treasonous vote-a-matic corporations?

Posted by: C. Davis | August 24, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Electronic voting machine errors and fraud are a potentially huge problem that can override the will of the majority of voters. Now, here's the simple solution that the government can not control. Every voter, in every state, needs to request an absentee paper ballot or early paper ballot and send it in by mail. If everyone, everywhere, refuses to go to the polls on election day, but rather votes early on paper, there would be a paper audit trail for everyone's vote, and this problem, along with electronic voting machines, would disappear.
Please pass this idea along to everyone you know, and we can all eliminate this problem.

Posted by: RWILMOT | August 24, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

part of the problem are non-expert editorials by the Washington Post, itself.

Anne Applebaum wrote in 2004 that she didn't worry about getting a receipt from an ATM, so she didn't need one from a voting machine. She attributed problems to "conspiracy theory". An ATM has a backup audit trail (checkbook, monthly statement!) where every line item is available. Not so with e-voting. E-voting should be anonymous, too.

here is Anne's editorial -- part of the problem. Why not ask a Princeton professor's expert opinion first?:

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/737254741.html?dids=737254741:737254741&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Nov+17%2C+2004&author=Anne+Applebaum&pub=The+Washington+Post&edition=&startpage=A.27&desc=In+ATMs%2C+Not+Votes%2C+We+Trust

why does it seem some conspiracy theories have some elements of truth these days? : ).

Posted by: nw | August 24, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Why do you think most of our politicians don't try to stop Diebold when it is blatantly rigging the elections...?
Yep, that's the correct answer!

Posted by: JD | August 24, 2008 3:27 AM | Report abuse

Treason, treason, treason...

Posted by: anon. | August 24, 2008 1:40 AM | Report abuse

Diebold makes security systems and some of the largest state universities are their customers such as UNC which uses their access control system. I now advise my clients not to allow Diebold to bid on their security system work because past incompetence is an indicator of future performance. I'm most concerned that Diebold was told years ago of this problem and not only denied it but refused to allow others to audit the software.States that license security contractors should lift Diebold's license to work in that profession including bank security.

Posted by: OneKelly | August 23, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Just remember that paper ballots are even MORE subject to tampering. After all it is just a piece of paper and anyone with access and a #2 pencil can do the tampering. At least in a computer system you have print outs and electronic copies in addition to the paper. Be careful what you wish for...

Posted by: Common Sense | August 23, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Going to a paper ballot isn't the complete solution. Mexico had paper ballots and their election was hijacked too. Caging lists, voter ID laws that discriminate against the poor, pruning voter rolls of those whose name is similar to a known felon, all these and other things combine to form a very effective strategy to steal elections. Right now phony polls are being taken and results released to condition the country to thinking that this race is close because when it's thought to be a close election it's easier to steal it. It was easy to steal elections from the likes of gentleman Al Gore and clueless John Kerry (clueless as to the election improprieties that cost him the election). Let's hope some lessons have been learned and the election this fall will be fair.

Posted by: Bob | August 23, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

No.2 pencil and paper. Election problems solved! no hanging chads, no hacked systems. democracy wins! DUH

Posted by: Patrick | August 23, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

This is why our "democracy" is a sham, a pathetic joke, a lie, with less legitimacy than a monarchy and even less than a dictatorship. And arrogant, idiotic and naive americans get all cocky that we're "bringing democracy to the world"....Hey world, if you see us coming, run the other way.........fast.

Posted by: CSD | August 23, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Diebold also mfgs ATMs -- has your ATM *ever* made an error? Did you *ever* not get a receipt?

This is a tactic called "poisoning the well," admitting to a TINY BIT of the truth in an effort to prevent having the entire truth revealed.

E-voting was designed and built from the ground up to steal elections. Google or Wiki "Saxby Chambliss" and witness his marvelous victory over a popular incumbent -- Saxby happened to be in tight with the e-voting company... Well! Gosh! The people have spoken, eh?

E-voting is a VERY BAD THING. So is having Diebold et al user scanners to count the vote -- that's a very slight shift from using e-voting in the first place.

Vote fraud ought to be a hanging offense. I'd like to see the CEO of Diebold hanged until dead, in public, for the Ohio 2004 election monkey business alone.

Posted by: Gordon Wagner | August 23, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

I don't understand the rush to adopt high tech solutions to low tech systems. (well, actually I do. Great opportunity to hijack an election, amirite?)

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Go back to filling in the bubble. It's that simple.
It worked.

Trash those machines, recycle them, sue the manufacturers for flawed products and waste of public money.

And speak out against them when your community decides they'd be an improvement over the stone age system that has worked so well for us up til now.

Posted by: xenubarb | August 23, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

America is a third world country that cannot organise a fair election.

Posted by: themunz | August 23, 2008 8:21 AM | Report abuse

"A logic error?" What's that? And why accept Wriggle's description of the programming as an error? For all the elections of the past 10 years, in the states in which Premier Election "Solutions" (Diebold's solutions having served their purpose and died boldly) machines were used, the logic "error" was programmed in.

The "error" is that in heavily populated districts (inner city?) where apparently the machines provided are fewest per capita (why is that?) votes (who knows how many?) got dropped (or flipped?). Historically, would those votes most "logically" have been Republican or Democrat? Is that the Rovian genius of the plot? Is this "The Hidden Campaign" of the headline?

Is the story of rigg(all)ed presidential elections important enough for the Washington Post to send a reporter to the desk of the Diebold programmer, who created the "error", and have a little chat? Is it important enough to the grieving families of the Bush/Cheney invasions? to the jobless and homeless this administration has created? to the victims of Katrina and other Global Weirdness? to the payers at the pump?

Posted by: Richard Carlson | August 23, 2008 5:23 AM | Report abuse

If they're going to hand count the ballots to double check the computer systems, why not just hand count the ballots to begin with and bypass this obvious system of control ? This country got along just fine before computer voting machines but has stepped into the abyss since using them.

Posted by: Neo | August 23, 2008 3:23 AM | Report abuse

Simple solution;

Call election tampering for what it is - treason. Matter of fact it's far worse than giving an enemy some knowledge of the latest bomb or plans to the capital, for it is more effective in changing against our will and undermining our society.


Put some of these people on trial for capital treason charges. Have them face the prospect of a death penalty. Even if they have lawyers that get it overturned, any new "Toadie" will think ten times before tampering with the system.


Really, for a decade now the "Right Wingers" have been raving that even disagreeing with Dubya is "Treason". Well, if "ThoughtCrime" is treason even by a stretch, tampering with an election certainly is.

Posted by: Misc. | August 23, 2008 1:26 AM | Report abuse

No paper no democracy
Americans will have to understand this
America is not free
it's elections are fixed
and those Americans that do not demand paper
are facilitating the fraud and corruption.

past due date for revolution a real one
that installs freedom back to the nation
the founding fathers were traitors and they
mounted an armed revolution for less than Americans are putting up with today.

Posted by: dave | August 23, 2008 12:57 AM | Report abuse

Can we tar and feather Chris Riggall? Yes, we can. You'd better get a bigger lock on your front door, sir.

Posted by: We will be taking matters into our hands, soon | August 23, 2008 12:50 AM | Report abuse

After all those years that concerned voters, like the brave folks at the Bradblog, tried to bring problems to the public attention, , Diebold/PSE finally admits at least one grave error in the software? And not only this, but a serious fault that has gone undected for ten years? This is not only a shame for Diebold/PSE, and should result in that company losing certification for its products everywhere, but it's also egg on the face of election officials who had ridiculed the critics for years, despite hard evidence of vote count irregularities and presentation of dire security flaws of the machines.

Now it's not only about time that concerns about voting equippment in general has to be taken much more seriously, but it's high time to make paper based voting the national standard, and to raise the legal requirements on optical scan systems. Plus, after every election it has to be mandatory to hand count the votes of randomly chosen counties for comparison purposes. The laissez fare attitude towards voting integrity has to be nibbed in the bud in order to raise confidence in the accuracy of the vote counts again. Who knows how many election results have been distorted because of random or maybe even intentional software flaws. Enough already!

Posted by: Gray | August 22, 2008 9:26 PM | Report abuse

In New York City during the NY primary, Sen Clinton got every vote in 82 precincts.

It was election fraud by computer. OBAMA got ZERO votes in some Harlem precincts. Harlem, black precincts.

The fraud was committed after the voting, by the persons entering the final total for the precinct.

Posted by: Bruce Becker | August 22, 2008 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Every system can be hacked. stop the sham. End the use of computers and networks in elections.

REGISTER, and VOTE ABSENTEE. Use the same signature as on your drivers license. No problem.

Posted by: Bruce Becker | August 22, 2008 9:14 PM | Report abuse

Save our democracy!

Given that these problems exist in supposedly tested systems, it's even stranger that the EAC wants to make it easier to allow untested machines to be used. Let the EAC know that you would rather use paper ballots over unverifiable and error-prone touch-screen machines.

The Open Voting Consortium is putting together an open source voting system that uses paper ballots and thus no one has to rely on a private company to count our votes.

Posted by: kaj | August 22, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Regarding why voting machines are less secure than ATMs, you should remember that ATMs cost 10's of thousands of dollars each, and voting machines can probably only cost 1/10 that or less.

Posted by: Reader | August 22, 2008 6:38 PM | Report abuse

oops!!

Posted by: m | August 22, 2008 6:10 PM | Report abuse


Considering Diebold makes ATM machines how is it possible they cannot build a secure voting machine that accurately counts votes?


This is not just happening here: 'From Ohio and California to Scotland and France, the disputes surrounding electronic voting machines have gone truly global.'


The ease in which one person can alter the vote count can be done in a matter of seconds at the central counting database by flipping the vote count is disturbing. Therein is the problem.


With it being impossible to prove votes are tampered with and the election less than 75 days it makes it that much more urgent to have safe guards to be put in place to protect the integrity of our elections.


Someone suggested each voter writing down their presidential choice on an index card and putting it in a lock-box at their voting poll. Not a bad idea.


Shocking as it is the republicans are caging hundreds of thousands of names -- removing voters' names off of voting lists.


Rigging the electoral system demeans the voters and undermines democracy itself regardless whether it favours a democrat or a republican. Both parties deserve an equal
and level playing field. And voters deserve their votes to be counted.


Selected winners are not elected winners.

Posted by: serena1313 | August 22, 2008 6:07 PM | Report abuse

We want paper ballots!

Posted by: When will they learn | August 22, 2008 5:44 PM | Report abuse

I would like to hear the evidence that Premier/Diebold used to come to its original conclusion that the AntiVirus software was to blame for the dropped votes. It seems now that just because AV software was not necessary or called for on these machines, the source of the dropped votes comes from a programming "error". If I worked for Diebold/Premier and was aware that such an "error" existed, I might also leap quickly to blame something else for the dropped votes in hopes that it would not be pursued further.

If we are to use electronically aided voting machines, the solution is simple. 1) They need a verifiable paper trail. 2) They need to be written in an open source coding that can easily be scrutinized, tested and certified safe, not a proprietary system where the programming "errors" are protected from discovery by their private sector manufacturers.

Posted by: Tom | August 22, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Our democracy is in jeopardy until we ban all touchscreen voting machines and require rigorous audits of optical scan vote tallies against a hand count of paper ballots. It is heartening to see reader comments that reflect a sophisticated awareness of the dangers of all electronic voting machines. I too am alarmed by the failure of the main stream media and the Democratic Party to address the seriousness of the crisis posed by outsourcing the management of our elections to dishonest Republican aligned electronic voting machine vendors. In 2006 Stephen Spoonamore, a renowned cyber security expert and life long Republican, gave an interview to a major media outlet that was not aired. Spoonamore's stunning video indictment of electronic voting machines is available on velvetrevolution.us.
To paraphrase Stalin it is not who votes that counts, but who counts the vote. The Corporatists who backed Cheney/Bush still own and service the voting machines that are used to count the majority of our votes nationally. This is an election theft opportunity that will not be missed by the powers that be. Lawyers on the ground after the election is stolen are too late. Please demand proactive legislative change. Our vote counting process is neither secure nor reliable at present. We need emergency legislation that mandates voting machine accountability nationwide. Paper ballots must be used for the presidential race in states that use paperless direct recording electronic (DRE's). We also need legislation that requires a reckoning of electronic vote totals with paper audit trails in the states that have audit trails before the election results are certified. To avoid mayhem and contested recounts in a close presidential election in November we need legislation in place that requires random surprise audits of the paper audit trail compared to the machine totals. I suggest that readers, who want to live in a actual democracy, get involved in taking back our elections. To learn more Google the DVD "Hacking Democracy" or "Uncounted."


Teresa Blakely

Posted by: Teresa Blakely | August 22, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Why have we turned our (public) voting over to private corporations, in the first place? Privatizing the vote...? And we should all trust the Corporations, right..? Like Exxon-mobile, Chevron, Halliburton, Enron, Blackwater....etc....they would never cheat us, or gouge us, or do any thing illegal right? Humm, corporate run elections...sure sound like fascism..(by the way these same corporation are also trusted to count the votes) and they are private corporations so no one gets to see their software, or their counting, or their verification process..its all private, their "word" is not to be questioned, their word is final...its secret..and mostly owned by right-wing corporate buddies of Bush/Cheney

Posted by: chabuka | August 22, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Anti Democrat software ... I like it ... it worked in Florida 2000 - it worked in Ohio 2004 ... maybe in 2008 we will keep them on edge until North carolina or California and see if it works for the media again tp declare one camndidate only to confirm McCain.

O'Bama should sleep this one out ... and wake up the next day to see if he won the White House.

Tense!!

Posted by: Hubba Bubba | August 22, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

It was stupid and lazy, (and possibly the result of a vendor kick-back), to use a general purpose operating system -- especially Windows -- as a platform for the voting machine application. The application is simple enough to be custom written to directly use the hardware, obviating the need for anti-virus software and avoiding any possible operating system bugs as well as known to hackers OS vulnerabilities.

Incidentally, this applies to Diebold's ATMs as well.

Posted by: Craig Busse | August 22, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Regarding the comments about how it is possible to build a mistake-proof ATM but apparently not a voting machine: The real kicker is that many of those ATM's were made by...Diebold. They have the ability but they choose not to use it. Fascinating, no?

Posted by: flo | August 22, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

It could all be sooooo much easier (and a lot less costly).

1. Go back to 'fill in the bubble' only.
2. Have all precinct volunteers (which usually consists of 3 - 6 people) count up the votes together.
3. Have the investigator, tally all the votes in the presence of the volunteers.
4. Seal the votes with the tally numbers clearly displayed for all volunteers to witness.
5. At the central offices themselves; have their volunteers recount, certify and present to their officials.
6. Those officials to lock up votes and report to Secretary of State in the presence of the witnessing volunteers.

No computers, no machines, just plain ol' ink and paper and witnessing volunteers.

Yes, this might be an expensive process for the '1 or 2' evenings, but in the long run it is far, far cheaper than these problem-ridden, tamper vulnerable machines and the very expensive impact such manipulations have on our democracy, by stolen elections.

6 steps (or 106 steps) should not be too many, to keep our democractic voting process as pristine and tamper proof as possible.

P.S. Why do so many Repubs seem to take the low road by name calling and insulting another person's point of view? Just state your objections with logic and resolution please. No personal attacks are needed.

Posted by: Simplicity | August 22, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Anti-Virus software on a voting machine? Hilarious. That's like if you go to a parent-teacher meeting and teacher says he always wears a condom when teaching. If you even think you need such a silly layer of protection, you are doing your job horribly wrong. India has 1.2 billion voters (four times as many as the USA) and they sensibly use free, Open Source software, that is immune from viruses, to count votes. We should just import our software from the world's biggest democracy!

Remember these diabolical Diebold machines were also designed to support negative votes. In Florida 2000 one precinct reported a lower tally for Gore as more (negative) votes were counted. No programmer would make that "mistake", but Diebold deliberately hired people with experience in computer crime... they knew what skills they needed. (The memory cards need to have zero votes at the start of the election, and that is checked. But zero can be -100 Gore votes and 100 Bush votes, in case the election officials need to add 200 votes for Bush to make him win. Cards like that are the best way to explain a precinct's total going down- there must have been less than 100 votes for Gore so the total remained negative.)

It's really not easy to make a computer program that cannot add, yet survives a certification processs. The Premier/Diebold people should be congratulated on their cleverness!

Posted by: sue.jonez | August 22, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Anti-Virus software on a voting machine? Hilarious. That's like if you go to a parent-teacher meeting and teacher says he always wears a condom when teaching. If you even think you need such a silly layer of protection, you are doing your job horribly wrong. India has 1.2 billion voters (four times as many as the USA) and they sensibly use free, Open Source software, that is immune from viruses, to count votes. We should just import our software from the world's biggest democracy!

Remember these diabolical Diebold machines were also designed to support negative votes. In Florida 2000 one precinct reported a lower tally for Gore as more (negative) votes were counted. No programmer would make that "mistake", but Diebold deliberately hired people with experience in computer crime... they knew what skills they needed. (The memory cards need to have zero votes at the start of the election, and that is checked. But zero can be -100 Gore votes and 100 Bush votes, in case the election officials need to add 200 votes for Bush to make him win. Cards like that are the best way to explain a precinct's total going down- there must have been less than 100 votes for Gore so the total remained negative.)

It's really not easy to make a computer program that cannot add, yet survives a certification processs. The Premier/Diebold people should be congratulated on their cleverness!

Posted by: sue.jonez | August 22, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

It could all be sooooo much easier (and a lot less costly).

1. Go back to 'fill in the bubble' only.
2. Have all precinct volunteers (which usually consists of 3 - 6 people count up the votes together.
3. Have the investigator, tally all the votes in the presence of the volunteers.
4. Seal the votes with the tally numbers clearly displayed for all volunteers to witness.
5. At the central offices themselves; have their volunteers recount, certify and present to their officials.
6. Those officials to lock up votes and report to Secretary of State in the presence of the witnessing volunteers.

No computers, no machines, just plain ol' ink and paper and witnessing volunteers.

Yes, this might be an expensive process for the '1 or 2' evenings, but in the long run it is far, far cheaper than these problem-ridden, tamper vulnerable machines and the very expensive impact such manipulations have on our democracy, by stolen elections.

6 steps (or 106 steps) should not be too many, to keep our democractic voting process as pristine and tamper proof as possible.

Posted by: Simplicity | August 22, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Voting machine rigging always favors Republicans. Statistically that is impossible if it were due to simple random problems or programming errors.

Electronic voting has always been a solution in search of a problem. There is no rational reason to abandon the simple paper ballot.

Posted by: Rick Cain | August 22, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

[i]go back to paper ballots... are u crazy.... the democrats are too stupid to punch a paper ballot properly... they think you can vote for their candidate twice on the same card and it should count...hell there votes shouldn't count anyway because their too dumb.... muddies the gene pool....[/i]

This was posted by someone calling other people stupid. Irony...

Posted by: Estproph | August 22, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

and which way are the dropped votes always in favor of?...the monkeyfollowers!...

Posted by: w.c. | August 22, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Can't the article at least acknowledge beliefs that the Ohio election was rigged/stolen exist?

Posted by: Matt | August 22, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Whoa! Bubba! Ease off there, buddy! I'm not prepared for intelligence criticism from a guy who hasn't mastered the third-grade-level use of 'there' and their'!

Speaking of muddying the gene pool, I'm afraid yours has a little crescent moon on the door.

Or did that go over your head, along with logic, spelling, and ethics?

Posted by: RoadScholar | August 22, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Doesn't anyone get it? "the problem with vote counts is most likely to affect larger jurisdictions" -- "larger jurisdictions" means urban areas, where minorities vote, and where they usually vote Democrat. It's a conspiracy against black voters. From the company that "promised to deliver Ohio to George W. Bush" when it was called Diebold.

Also, and this is very important,"The flawed software is on both touch screen and optical scan voting machines made by Premier and that feed many memory cards to a central counting database rapidly"...just because we're switching little by little to optical scanners, the problems remain at the level of the central tabulators, which are totally hackable and susceptible to fraud. Where are the Democrats? Why are they caught flatfooted again? Don't they control Congress? Or are they on the payroll of the voting machine companies, many of which are foreign-owned or controlled, by the way.

Live free or Diebold!

Posted by: Silvio Dante | August 22, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Several oddities in the comments. First, viruses can theoretically be put on memory cards, so virus protection IS needed. However, how much of a "black box" is antivirus software itself, and how does one know the "correct version" of the antivirus software is installed? This line of reasoning eventually leads back to physical ballots; either punched cards or paper. Observable chains of custody are needed, and if complete recounts are not done repeatedly for each election, a reliable method of RANDOM SAMPLING STATISTICAL VERIFICATION of dubious results should be developed. This randomness, although mandated by Ohio law, was not done, and a sample was chosen arbitrarily behind closed doors of pre-selected district(s). For this rigging of the recount, there were convictions. The silence of the Establishment commentariat on this matter was deafening.

A group of people in a room, who don't entirely trust each other, should be able to come up with some true random numbers to perform statistical sampling. This is difficult but not impossible. (Especially if each party uses a similar system to appoint their own designated observers and participants in these proposed recounts/samplings. That would minimize trojan-horse people to some degree)

Posted by: Jumper | August 22, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

This year for the first time, Florida will have a paper trail. Lets see how the votes shake out this time around. It may be a little more difficult for the votes to be stolen.

Posted by: Sims | August 22, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Florida, Alabama, Mississippi and New Mexico are other states that should be looked at. I believe that these states have been dropping democratic votes for years. The population math just doesn't add up to hardcore consistent red states. Florida nor New Mexico, should be red states.

Posted by: Sims | August 22, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

The national media should be on this story and talk about all of the facts found out thus far. Exposure may prevent it from happening again. We can not afford to have three Presidential Elections stolen in a row. I think this would be the final blow for our democracy if it is allowed this time. I hope the media take this seriously and help to Save American Democracy. Lets talk about it.

Posted by: Sims | August 22, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

The Patch was placed their to steal the Democratic votes.

Posted by: Sims | August 22, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Yes it dropped votes alright, Democratic votes in Democratic Districts. This was no error, it was intentional. Ohio was stolen.

Posted by: Sims | August 22, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

DUMP THE CROOKED ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES FOR paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper,paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper
THEN DUMP THE CROOKED POLITICIANS-ALL OF THEM

Posted by: Anonymous | August 22, 2008 6:31 AM | Report abuse

It is trivially obvious that better computerized voting and tabulating systems can be implemented than the ones currently in use, they would still not provide anything close to the safeguards needed to protect the integrity of our elections and absolutely no way to prove that the tabulated results they produce reflect the intent of the voters.

Even if you had a system with flawless software on faultless hardware, you would still have too many vulnerabilities. For example, you must ensure the complete chain of custody of all the hardware and software in each and every system from before it was even manufactured until long after its last use!

Are you sure that the touch screen or the scanner hardware was not "pre-infected" when it was manufactured or later before it became part of a voting machine or whatever? How much effort would powerful interests expend in order to control our elections through backdoor access? Or the CIA to influence elections elsewhere?

Those of you in other countries probably do not understand the complexity of US elections; in addition to Federal and state contests for elected office (may 5-20 contests), we elect reps for a patchwork of overlapping governmental entities (county, city, school district, water, economic, etc.), plus various ballot issues (e.g. issuing bonds for something). An unlucky voter might be faced with 150-200 separate votes on a single election day! And we often have several elections/ballots in a single year -- maybe a primary, then a runoff, followed by the general election and possibly another runoff just to elect a single official.

Paper ballots, hand-counted at the precinct (or possibly scanned there), have their own problems, but the impact of these can be contained with enough vigilance.

Posted by: UNC70 | August 22, 2008 3:58 AM | Report abuse

Where is President Carter when we need him in this voting year? Calling the international to verify our election now!

Posted by: where is pres. Carter? | August 22, 2008 3:14 AM | Report abuse

democracy goes down the sh1t hole if the voting machine decide the winner!!!!!!!!!!! I smell some fishy here, don't you?

Posted by: democracy? | August 22, 2008 3:12 AM | Report abuse

I love how Diebold's spokesman is called Chris RIGGALL.

Posted by: Barney Gibbon | August 22, 2008 2:16 AM | Report abuse

These machines can easily be rigged. That is exactly why there needs to be a paper trail in every election for every ballot. There are too many evil and dishonest people that would be very willing to compromise the computer software, hardware, etc. in an attempt to achieve a desired outcome.

Posted by: USPatriot | August 22, 2008 2:14 AM | Report abuse

O gee, we are so suprised!!! Remember when Karl Rove was on his laptop saying don't worry about Ohio we've taken care of it and then there was this thing about vote counting when some districts had more votes than registered voters? Are we just supposed to forget this stuff? I guess we are ... coz it keeps on happening ... kind of like the drug trade ... if we wanted to turn it off, we could just stop the suppliers ... i heard that from the guy who wrote the 1600 page book on the kennedy murder ... he got interviewed on c span ... said we can do all kinds of things if we really want to ... DUH ... so the american people just seem to have a major case of dull indifference or sheepishness or ignorance or helplessness ... gawd i hope we can change that this time ... maybe the pollsters are using the same machines ...

Posted by: Gaias Child | August 22, 2008 2:00 AM | Report abuse

Why in the friggin hell can't the most advanced nation in the world make sure votes get counted properly and honestly? For crying out loud already!

Posted by: mongolovesheriff | August 22, 2008 1:00 AM | Report abuse

1 - They're not voting machines. They're voting COMPUTERS. They have operating systems and are programmed.

2 - This is *not* rocket science. One inputs votes, they get counted, they get uploaded to a central server at the end of the day. I mean, maybe a tad more complicated than a "Hello World" but not much.

3 - Antivirus software!! On these things??? What else are they running? Firewalls? Games perhaps?

Posted by: homersimpson49 | August 21, 2008 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Another interesting fact that isn't mentioned in this article ... Diebold was a major contributor to George W. Bush's and other Republican candidates in 2004. Conflict of interest? You better believe it! Coincidence that Bush won the 2004 election by a mere 118,000 more votes than Kerry in the swing state of Ohio? A great many think not. It's critical that we have good, strong, HONEST people working as Poll Judges, Presiding Judges and Precinct Coordinators in Ohio in 2008 . Without them will not have accurate results. It's these people who's job it is to make sure that the electronic voting results match the number of actual votes cast.

Posted by: Carolyn Hardin-Levine | August 21, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

If there were true justice, people from Diebold
and the Bush administration would each spend a
year in a bamboo cage in the jungle, fed a thin
rice gruel twice a day by sympathetic monks.

Posted by: anonymous | August 21, 2008 11:00 PM | Report abuse

THIS IS HOW BUSH GOT IN

Posted by: IMPEACH REPUBICANS | August 21, 2008 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Is Hillary behind this??? Maybe it's not the politicians that are the crooked ones after all. Hmmm...

Posted by: stickem | August 21, 2008 10:41 PM | Report abuse

The voting machines are "flawed" in the exact same way the CIA intelligence was "flawed". The correct terms would be "intentionally manipulated".

And please, stop and think. Why would there be Anti-Virus software on voting machines? OMG. Hello! These machines are not connected to the Internet or networked. That's why they pass around the little data cards that are supposedly dumping the votes. This story is a smokescreen for the fact that the machines are being intentionally manipulated.

The evidence for fraud is overwhelming.

After 8 years of Bush and decades of Republican controlled Congresses, I have completely lost faith in my fellow Americans judgement of character and ability to discern truth from total BS.

I don't know that Obama or a Democratic controlled congress are going to be able to fix thigns, but at least they aren't going to go out of their way to eliminate any possibility of honest elections and sell off the country to the highest bidder so we can pay for our perpetual wars and nothing else we actually need for those of us who pay our fair share of taxes for the common good of the United States.

Posted by: Jason | August 21, 2008 10:40 PM | Report abuse

We want
paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper, paper,
not electrons.

Posted by: katman | August 21, 2008 10:15 PM | Report abuse

Bug or feature?

Posted by: aleks | August 21, 2008 10:14 PM | Report abuse

Is that stealing votes or rigging an election? it is a simple as going to un necessary war hunting for Wepons of Mass Destruction!

Posted by: Anonymous | August 21, 2008 10:05 PM | Report abuse

I am not supprised by this at all. I did the research in 2003 on voting machines. Do a simple google search, Diebold CEO - and you will find numerous examples of this snippet from the first search result:

"COLUMBUS - The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

The Aug. 14 letter from Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold Inc. - who has become active in the re-election effort of President Bush - prompted Democrats this week to question the propriety of allowing O'Dell's company to calculate votes in the 2004 presidential election.

O'Dell attended a strategy pow-wow with wealthy Bush benefactors - known as Rangers and Pioneers - at the president's Crawford, Texas, ranch earlier this month. The next week, he penned invitations to a $1,000-a-plate fund-raiser to benefit the Ohio Republican Party's federal campaign fund - partially benefiting Bush - at his mansion in the Columbus suburb of Upper Arlington. "

Posted by: Issues | August 21, 2008 10:02 PM | Report abuse

I am a physician.
you think its just voting machines?
I got back a hospital report yesterday, reporting that the blood pressure of a patient was 11/60 (sort of incompatible with life) and she was discharged in good health to go home.
The blood pressure was recorded in the right spot...

it's nuts. The machines aren't the problem. No one's taking time to make sure any of this software works.
Government wants electronic medical records; it would be nice if we could have reliable data into these machines, and reliable counting OUT of them

anyway
...

Posted by: nick | August 21, 2008 10:02 PM | Report abuse

I am a strong advocate for the return of paper only voting, hand counted...I am willing to DONATE my time to help count...with as many witnesses in attendance as possible......AND there are many more like me who'd be willing to do the same...

Posted by: Habit | August 21, 2008 9:57 PM | Report abuse

It drops votes,cause adding can be traced.So why do think Lieberman join the GOP.Must know something.

Posted by: barry barry | August 21, 2008 9:57 PM | Report abuse

I sure hope Johnny McBush has a staffer assisting him when he votes on one of them there electronic gizmos-- maybe he can spare one of the staffers who isn't out counting how many houses he has

Posted by: pax_vobiscum2002 | August 21, 2008 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Paper ballots somehow work just fine for the Canadians. Are they just smarter than us?

Posted by: gorto | August 21, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

How much more are you going to take? What do they have to do to you? Do they have to come to your house and kick your door down?

Posted by: Mark | August 21, 2008 9:51 PM | Report abuse

bubba....you're an idiot and should just drink the rest of your life away

Posted by: johnshermer | August 21, 2008 9:48 PM | Report abuse

any person still voting republican is a moron

diebold is a corporation owned by a republican who promised that Ohio would be won by the repukicans.

republicans have been proven on the whole to have lower iq's that Dems or Independants.

I guess stupid is something that runs in their family

Posted by: johnshermer | August 21, 2008 9:46 PM | Report abuse

f***ers

Posted by: johnshermer | August 21, 2008 9:43 PM | Report abuse

go back to paper ballots... are u crazy.... the democrats are too stupid to punch a paper ballot properly... they think you can vote for their candidate twice on the same card and it should count...hell there votes shouldn't count anyway because their too dumb.... muddies the gene pool....

Posted by: bubba | August 21, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

The funny thing was that Ohio never did a recount back in 2004. :/

Posted by: Anonymous | August 21, 2008 9:37 PM | Report abuse

Conspiracy beleivers unite. This is not a surprising revelation. Americans should boycot all Premier Election Solutions/Diebold products. Let go back to the paper ballots, or is it too late at this juncture?

Posted by: nw lee, sr | August 21, 2008 9:23 PM | Report abuse

Someone just blinked.

Posted by: Richard | August 21, 2008 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Yet more evidence that Cheney and his Bush puppet never were legitimately elected!

Posted by: Bonobo | August 21, 2008 8:46 PM | Report abuse

ther have been programs on hbo that have proven these machines can be manipulated! vote on paper!

Posted by: bratcher15 | August 21, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Please tell me how a nation who alone has put men on the moon takes a decade to find out they can't count. See what happens when you blindly follow the majic bullit theory of intelligent creation. Once you swallowed the Warren comishion report they knew you were to stupid to run a straight election. It's called ENRONOMICS math, we sell you a croc of caca and get you to believe we did you a favor by doing so.
you morons make talk radio think truth is a social desease and they fed you a terminal dose.

Posted by: James Huffer | August 21, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

I agree. Use paper. To hell with computers. They'll do any damn thing we tell them to do.

Posted by: feudi | August 21, 2008 8:17 PM | Report abuse

do atm machine ever nake mistakes with money? no.

do we the citizens finally get to audit the software now? also no.

do we have a democracy? also no.

are we a nation of sheep? baa

Posted by: will shapiro | August 21, 2008 7:58 PM | Report abuse

My only question about this is why are they admitting this now? It has been fairly common knowledge among those who want to know and certainly among Ohio Democrats that this was the case. Why is Diebold admitting fault now? Are they trying to get in good with Dems because they see a change in the winds? Very suspicious.

Posted by: Why Now | August 21, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse

Arguing about whether McCain is a senile war mongering or Obama is an over educated elitist is really quite pointless when the votes don't count.

"Larger Jurisdictions"=urban areas, which tend to vote democratic" is exactly right and those who deny that this is intentional are really not paying attention or are choosing to be blissfully ignorant.

Posted by: It's the votes dummy | August 21, 2008 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Quote from the artice, "Riggall said he was 'confident" that elections officials through the years would have realized votes had been dropped when they crosschecked their tallies to certify final elections results." OK, if you want me to buy that, then why did it take 10 years to discover or correct? Why didn't the cross checking indicate a software problem--ten years ago? What took so long? Could any of the following been a factor: Money, greed, deceit, malicious intent? Or a well designed error? We will never know. We do know this: Voting machines need to go until field tested to perfection before being used again!

Posted by: Monsoon Eddy | August 21, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

You mean the Democrats were right all along. Those people who claimed that Diebold (a Republican biased company) was rigging their machines to dump votes the Republican Sec. of State didn't like were just paranoid? Sore Losers? Moe the President of the company, after changing his story three times, blaming it on elected officials, software, anyone bu the company, NOW says, er,,yeah,,I guess, maybe. They're criminals who helped elect Bush and need to be prosecuted. Bush has left our country in shambles and they bear responsibility.

Posted by: thebob.bob | August 21, 2008 7:26 PM | Report abuse

What a joke. An "error" that drops votes? It is perfectly possible to design a foolproof system that cannot drop votes at all. Do ATM machines have "errors" that drop money?
If you don't have the guts to bust these guys for election tampering, at least bust them for incompetence.

Posted by: Dan | August 21, 2008 7:25 PM | Report abuse

If your vote doesn't count, can you still call it a democracy? The fact that the reporter neglected to mention all the polling problems in 2004, flipped votes, glitches, polling stations changed at the last minute or the 2004 recount funded by the libertarian and green party which was in the courts for over a year and after which when the recount officials concluded there was "nothing usual, case closed," several were convicted of tampering with the recount. Revisionism through omission is what it's called. But at least the Post has the guts to report this much.

Posted by: Rousseau | August 21, 2008 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Want more information on voting machines? Want to help monitor elections?
Find out more at www.blackboxvoting.org. I signed up with them a few months ago. Many volunteers are needed.

Posted by: treetracker | August 21, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

Diebold...Former Sec of State of Ohio Ken Blackwell's precious investment. Blackwell pushed for the use of Diebold machines but failed to tell Ohioians that he owned stock in Diebold. Now, I keep reading articles that explain errors and tampering with these damn machines...Go figure...Blackwell is a criminal who helped elect Bush.

Posted by: Bill | August 21, 2008 7:16 PM | Report abuse

You know, the whole reason for a November election and a January seating is to allow all the votes to be counted and verified. Regardless of what the MSM think, we do not need to know who won, via exit polls or early results, before the polls close on the west coast. Let the vote happen. Take some time and verify who won, count the votes. You can let us know around Christmas time. That would be soon enough.

Posted by: David | August 21, 2008 7:14 PM | Report abuse

MAKE IT COUNT - the ONLY safe vote is an absentee ballot; anybody can vote with one and there is a major paper trail.

Posted by: oneStarman | August 21, 2008 7:12 PM | Report abuse

In the summer of 2003, Representative Peter King (R., N.Y.) was interviewed by Alexandra Pelosi at a barbecue on the White House lawn for her HBO documentary Diary of a Political Tourist. “It's already over. The election's over. We won,” King exulted more than a year before the election. When asked by Pelosi—the daughter of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi—how he knew that Bush would win, he answered, “It's all over but the counting. And we'll take care of the counting.” -- From the Harpers article (see below)

Posted by: Corruption Anon | August 21, 2008 6:59 PM | Report abuse

If you want the backstory on all of this, it has existed for years. Greg Palast's books (available on Amazon, for example) showed enormous flaws across the nation in 2000 and 2004. Strangely enough, all the "errors" favored the Diebold Party...guess who THAT was and IS? Welcome to the plutocracy's next Dog and Pony show...Election 2008.

Posted by: Ed L | August 21, 2008 6:57 PM | Report abuse

"Oh well, we have no way of verifying any votes on any of these machines, sorry. Who knows what the actual election results were, sorry. Please drive to your nearest Wal Mart, buy something new and shiny at the expense of foreign slave laborers and just forget about it"

Why are there not protests in the streets? This is unbelievable! Every election for the last 10 years should be redone! Too bad we can't take back the millions of lives these voting machines may have cost.

VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE '08

Posted by: Grace Lee Boggs | August 21, 2008 6:52 PM | Report abuse

Shocking...Not..
Diebold, Sequoia who cares, they all were
bought and paid to deliver one thing,
and thats a win at the polls to whomever
pays the price.
There are tons of computer systems in the world that do a lot more complex things than count votes. I know, I have programmed some sophisticted systems at the microcode level. None of the 'problems' found in these voting machines were mistakes, they were programmed that way on purpose.

Posted by: Yawn | August 21, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

If your voting machine has anti-virus software, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

Posted by: YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG | August 21, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Seriously... I like the line, "Premier Election Solutions, formerly known as Diebold"...

if you where awake during the last two elections, that name should scare the living beejeezus out of you, no matter what party you're from.

Posted by: spitandspiteDotcom | August 21, 2008 6:39 PM | Report abuse

That is the perfect reason to stay with paper balots.Paper always leaves a trail. Computor systems can be altered and changed

Posted by: F Plecas | August 21, 2008 6:31 PM | Report abuse

actually, I would settle for an ATM receipt that I could register with a serial bar code number and send to my Party headquarters. I do not trust the system that much. But I would like to have Carter come out and endorse the final product (candidate).

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 21, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

It should surprise no one that the Republican party, which has politicized the military and the judicial, should also be profiting from and rigging the votes in elections. Diebold is a big Republican donor. And the Republicans get more than just money in the deal.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2005/08/0080696


Posted by: Corruption Anon | August 21, 2008 6:08 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Cal. The people of the United States must have confidence in the election process or voting is just a waste of time. Any digital system can be corrupted or hacked. Voters need to show up at the polls, be identified as a registered voter and vote. No vote by mail, no computers. Be a responsable citizen, it does matter.

Posted by: Lars | August 21, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse

Why limit it to Ohio? It's EVERYWHERE. That's why I NEVER vote using those machines!

Posted by: KYJurisDoctor | August 21, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

I think we need to bring Carter in and that group he is part of that analyzes vote tally's, and get them to monitor.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 21, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

A new way to shred ballots, how refreshing. Why is it these dropped votes are always predominantly for Democrats. It seems like Republicans want to redefine cheating in the 21st century. How very singleminded in their quest for power and their self-entitlement. The heart of Democracy is reasoned dissent, opined by the informed and respected sans partisanship. Can such a fascistic party really be a party of family values...

Posted by: Miriam | August 21, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse

I am not astonished that no USA company is capable to make a fool proof voting machine. I live here for a long time and the longer I am here the more I believe that no American step on the Moon! Of course it is possible to make an absolutely fool proof voting machines. Look at ATM machines which are much more complex! The point is the manufactures had to make more a Las Vegas gambling machine that can be "tuned". Long live the liberty and political freedom.


Posted by: Mike (Germany) | August 21, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Great! Now when McCain kicks Obama's butt
they'll be squawking about this! Shocking
how McCain gets ahead, and now there will be a voting problem.I smell a rat!

Posted by: Rusty | August 21, 2008 5:53 PM | Report abuse

its not us, oh wait it is but we assure you there aren't any other problems

yeah right

Posted by: atx | August 21, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Amen to that, Cal! What a complete waste! And they are sure the numbers were right--how? They thought something else before.

" but the logic error that is the root of the problem has been part of the software for 10 years, said Chris Riggall, a spokesman for Premier Election Solutions, formerly known as Diebold."

Premier, my foot. Or another body part.

Posted by: KAANSWFM | August 21, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse

"Larger Jurisdictions"=urban areas, which tend to vote democratic.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 21, 2008 5:47 PM | Report abuse

This is not a mistake. It is programed to behave that way.

Posted by: Redman | August 21, 2008 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Man just go back to paper and be done with it. It is the only sure way to produce verifiable results in a recount situation. Even those famous "hanging chads" are better than electronic results that can never be verified at all.

Posted by: Cal | August 21, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

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