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Obama to Palin: 'Don't Mock the Constitution'

By Peter Slevin
FARMINGTON HILLS, Mich. -- Sen. Barack Obama delivered an impassioned defense of the Constitution and the rights of terrorism suspects tonight, striking back at one of the biggest applause lines in Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's speech to the GOP convention.

It was in St. Paul last week that Palin drew raucous cheers when she delivered this put-down of Obama: "Al-Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America and he's worried that someone won't read them their rights."

Obama had a few problems with that.

"First of all, you don't even get to read them their rights until you catch 'em," Obama said here, drawing laughs from 1,500 supporters in a high school gymnasium. "They should spend more time trying to catch Osama bin Laden and we can worry about the next steps later."

If the plotters of the Sept. 11 attacks are in the government's sights, Obama went on, they should be targeted and killed.

"My position has always been clear: If you've got a terrorist, take him out," Obama said. "Anybody who was involved in 9/11, take 'em out."

But Obama, who taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago for more than a decade, said captured suspects deserve to file writs of habeus corpus.

Calling it "the foundation of Anglo-American law," he said the principle "says very simply: If the government grabs you, then you have the right to at least ask, 'Why was I grabbed?' And say, 'Maybe you've got the wrong person.'"

The safeguard is essential, Obama continued, "because we don't always have the right person."

"We don't always catch the right person," he said. "We may think it's Mohammed the terrorist, but it might be Mohammed the cab driver. You might think it's Barack the bomb-thrower, but it might be Barack the guy running for president."

Obama turned back to Palin's comment, although he said he was not sure whether Palin or Rudy Giuliani said it.

"The reason that you have this principle is not to be soft on terrorism. It's because that's who we are. That's what we're protecting," Obama said, his voice growing louder and the crowd rising to its feet to cheer. "Don't mock the Constitution. Don't make fun of it. Don't suggest that it's not American to abide by what the founding fathers set up. It's worked pretty well for over 200 years."

He finished with a dismissive comment about his opponents.

"These people."

By Web Politics Editor  |  September 8, 2008; 10:09 PM ET
Categories:  Barack Obama , John McCain  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Stevens: No 'Bridge to Nowhere' Advocacy by Palin
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Comments

Unfortunately we have to blame it on constitution. Constitution gives "fair" chance to all individuals. If you don't want them to exercise their rights then shoot them.

Posted by: Dave M | September 13, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

I'm a little confused. Let me see if I have this straight.....

* If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you're "exotic, different."

* Grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, a quintessential American story.

* If your name is Barack you're a radical, unpatriotic Muslim.

* Name your kids Willow, Trig and Track, you're a maverick.

* Graduate from Harvard law School and you are unstable.

* Attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you're well grounded.

* If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran's Affairs committees, you don't have any real leadership experience.

* If your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you're qualified to become the country's second highest ranking executive.

* If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you're not a real Christian.

* If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a Christian.

* If you teach teach children about sexual predators, you are irresponsible and eroding the fiber of society.

* If, while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state's school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant, you're very responsible.

* If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family's values don't represent America 's.

* If you're husband is nicknamed "First Dude", with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn't register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that hates America and advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable.

OK, much clearer now.

Posted by: krisd843 | September 13, 2008 7:08 PM | Report abuse

What the ????

First he says: "If you've got a terrorist, take 'em out"

Then he says: "captured suspects deserve to file writs of habeus corpus."

Let me get this straight, it's okay if you shoot them from a distance but if you take them prisoner they have rights. Ouch!

Posted by: Ruth | September 13, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

So the comments be Dems of McCain saying bomb, bomb, Iraq is different that Obama's take em out! take em out!? Why doesn't he just call McCain about how he should be?

Posted by: dragonfly777
------------------------
Dragonfly, I really do not like having to burst your bubble of misinformation:

#1 - McCain did not sing bomb, bomb, bomb, IRAQ; he sang, "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb IRAN" McCain wants to bomb ALL IRANIANS!!

#2 - Obama was specifically talking about those terrorists,including Bin Ladin, INVOLVED IN 911 WHO ATTACKED US. He was not talking about the SUSPECTS BUT ABOUT THOSE SPECIFIALLY INVOLVED IN THE PLANNING AND EXECUTION OF THOSE ATTACKS.

Obviously you did not digest what you read or heard, YOU JUMPED TO YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS AND DISREGARDED WHAS WAS ACTUALLY "SAID" by both McCain and Obama. This kind of misunderstandings CAN cause wars and this is what makes John McCain a real danger to our country and to our citizens. McCain not only wants to bomb th bad guys in IRAN, he WANTS TO BOMB ALL THE IRANIANS, INCLUDING INNOCENT WOMEN, CHILDREN, AND THE GOOD GUYS. BIG, BIG DIFFERENCE!!

Posted by: NinaK | September 13, 2008 1:02 AM | Report abuse

Dana, regarding Palin not looking pregnant when she supposedly 7 months pregnant in Feb 08 and gave birth in April, suffering labor pains on a flight back to Alaska---except that NOONE in the fight NOTICED her being in any kind of distress!! Giving birth to a downsyndrone baby would be much more difficult than giving birth to a normal baby...WHY?? Downsydrone babies have much larger heads and would be harder to give birth to. Let's see, Pilan says her 16/17 year old daughter, Bristol, is five months pregnant...it just might be possible that Bristol is also Trig's mommy. Since he was born in April and IF Bristol is his mommy, she would have had to get herself knocked up again during late April or early May which would put her at five months pregnant NOW. I am not saying this is THE truth; however, it could be a very real possibility! Wasn't Bristol pulled out of school during that time for supposedly having meningitis? See, when someone lies continually like Sarah Palin does, it is difficult to know IF she is being dishonest on other issues as well. The same applies to McCain.

Posted by: NinaK | September 13, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

So the comments be Dems of McCain saying bomb, bomb, Iraq is different that Obama's take em out! take em out!? Why doesn't he just call McCain about how he should be?

Posted by: dragonfly777 | September 12, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Here is the truth of Obama "the deceiver"

From NRO 9/12/2008


Obama’s commitment to federally mandated pay equity stretches from the Rockies to Wall Street and beyond. And yet it seems to have eluded his United States Senate office. Compensation figures for his legislative staff reveal that Obama pays women just 83 cents for every dollar his men make.


How could this be?

One explanation could be that women compose a majority of McCain’s highest-paid aides. Among his top-five best-compensated staffers, three are women. Of his 20-highest-salaried employees, 13 are women. The Republican presidential nominee relies on women — much more than men — for advice at the highest, and thus, best-paid levels.

In short, these statistics suggest that John McCain is more than fair with his female employees, while Barack Obama — at the expense of the women who work for him — quietly perpetuates the very same pay-equity divide that he loudly denounces. Of all people, the Democratic standard bearer should understand that equal pay begins at home.

Posted by: dragonfly777 | September 12, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

I see the right-wing has turned out in all its glory here.

Habeas corpus is a fundamental American tenet. There's really not much more to say. If you mock habeas, you obviously don't respect the U.S. constitution.

I'm glad that Obama called Palin out on this, and I'm willing to bet she couldn't even tell you what habeas corpus *is*, let alone say why it's important.

Posted by: PJ | September 12, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

I was also very offended by Palin's remark, and it really makes me question her fitness for office. This is a great response from Obama and I'm wondering why it didn't get more play - even from the left-leaning MSNBC.

All you cranks out there calling Obama a liar or a secret Muslim, etc., grow up and learn what a real American is. It's someone mature enough to, as Obama says, not mock the Constitution. That, and not someone who wears a lapel pin, is the sign of a patriot.

Posted by: Marko | September 11, 2008 11:10 PM | Report abuse

that is true, but in Hitlers campaign he was also favored greatly.

if we mark our choices on popularity, even in a long term, we set ourselves on other peoples defining characteristics of a leader.

and remember, jesus was not seen in a positive light by the majority either.

i simply feel that the characteristics used to evaluate in a democrat sense, is a great way to evaluate friends, but perhaps not leaders.

Posted by: dale | September 11, 2008 10:20 PM | Report abuse

dale-i find your assessment in line with what i've seen myself, in terms of republicans democrats, what they expect from people.

but i'd argue that obama, to have made it this far with all the support he has, has proven he's a capable leader as well.

sterv

Posted by: sterv | September 11, 2008 10:01 PM | Report abuse

to be honest i beleive that the difference in democrats and republicans is not mostly defined by their issues or stances, but instead by how they approach a person they meet.

a republican for the most part sees a stereotype, a politician in this case, and says to themselves "i have seen many of you in my time, i understand what you value, i don't prefer you as a human being, now prove me wrong."

a democrat for the most part starts of simply seeing a person, they think "i want to learn more about you, should we agree we may become great friends, should we disagree then i don't intend to pursue much of a friendship with you."

i beleive these fundamental differences in approaching a problem, a friendship, a relationship, and a future expressly is what differs the people so greatly.

when a republican looks at obama they see a traditional politician, reinforced by his choice for vp, his candid appeal, his photo op personality, and his blatant disregard for symbolic gestures, his past experience which speaks to nothing of any real importance aside from the fact that he had a job and has worked most of his life.

when a republican looks at mccain, they see a politician who fought for his country in war, faced 5 years of excruciating thought provoking time, that which most Americans haven't spent in their entire lives, let alone in their youth. they see someone with the scars of not being able to lift his hands, still honorably doing symbolic gestures when he can. a man who dedicated his life after being unable to fight on the front lines to his country in another means. and a man who still carry's that passion at 72. he reminds us of our war torn grandparents, with strong minds and stronger passion. politicians rarely put themselves on the line, and so the stereotype is broken, and john mccain is revered.

the democrat looks at barack obama and sees a man they agree with, a man whose heart is focused on changing things, which they also see as a valid purpose in life. they see someone who is intent on changing things, and who embodies a visual of change himself. they see someone who speaks of things that are vastly different than what we are used to, at least in our recent history. and because of that democrats view him as a true agent of change, they never labeled him as a politician, and so they couldn't imagine a person of his unique persona lying to them.

whilst a democrat looking at john mccain, sees a man who has gone past his prime, who has strong thoughts, but altogether the thoughts differ from thier own, so while he talks they sit silently and wont oppose him out of respect for him being older. then they walk away, and keep thier distance from what they see as a man who is not passionate, but angry, and hurt, angry because he's scarred by the past.

basically, a republican wants someone to prove their worth, whilst a democrat wants someone to prove they are nice this is historically accurate as well as presently accurate.

i am not lost to why democrats love barack obama, or why they hate mccain.

but when it comes to someone who is going to rule, even my best friends i would not vote for, because i could care less if i like the person in the whitehouse, this is why i am a republican. it is more important that someone is a leader, a proven leader, than a proven friend, in this type of a choice.

Posted by: dale | September 11, 2008 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Democrats need to be slapped for trashing the national flags.

I'd rather slap anyone dumb enough to think a flag means anything at all.

Posted by: libarbarian | September 11, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

What a way to show people what democracy is all about.

Posted by: Joe | September 11, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

So we are "spreading democracy" by taking away the rights of the accused? That makes sense.

Posted by: Joe | September 11, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I'm UK citizen with Japanese background. Republicans in US are the creeps. They are experts in twisting the facts and lying blatantly. They drew us into Iraq war for their oil companies on WMD lie and we lost our soldiers because of their dishonest foreign policy. And anytime you express your opinion they say British must shut up and be their lap dog. One other reason Bush gave world to attack Iraq is they planned to kill my father. It won’t be surprising if McCain takes us to war with Vietnam saying they broke my elbow and now I can't even mast**bate

Posted by: Rob Mokohito | September 11, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

It is encouraging to see contenders introducing the issue of constitutional compliance into the campaign. However, none of them appear to yet have a firm grasp on the subject, including the two, Obama and Biden, who taught constitutional law in law schools.

The Founders did not, in general, use dictionary definitions of their terms. Dictionaries as we know them today were only just beginning to be written, and meanings of words were acquiired by doing a lot of reading of works in which the words were used, and their meaning extracted by context, but seldom if ever defined.

It is therefore not surprising that Founder James Wilson, attempting to come up with a definition of "piracy", proposed "robbery at sea". However, from a more thorough examination of actual usages of the term, we can get something like this:

Piracy is a warlike act committed by a non-state actor, either a foreign actor against this country, or a domestic actor against another country.

But this covers what we are today calling "terrorism", and the Constitution, Art. I Sec. 8 Cl. 10, "The Congress shall have Power ... To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas...", and we have a well-eveloped body of law on piracy.

We can then also see that the Constitution covers all possibilities, partitioning the set of warlike actions into those committed by state or non-state actors, those within the country by a domestic non-state actor (treason), and those committed between nations by a non-state actor (piracy).

That also makes a warlike act committed by an official without a declaration of war or letters of marque and reprisal an act of piracy.

Posted by: jon.roland | September 11, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

"Don't mock the Constitution."

Says the "Constitutional scholar" who counts to 10 like this:
1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9

Posted by: Anonymous | September 11, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse

As we sit here calling each other names, the country is in financial ruin to the tune of over $400 BILLION, 1.2 MILLION are unemployed and more than 1 MILLION homes are in foreclosure. There are men being held as terrorists for 3-5 years now who have no voice to say whether they are guilty or innocent...what if even a few have been the victims of racial profiling. It happens all the time with other races...why not Arabs. And the latest news is that Bush signed off on secret orders for ops by our troops in Pakistan without asking the Pakistani government permission to go in...isn't that invasion? The Pakistanis are outraged...for Bush its business as usual. Are we to have another senseless war or another 9/11 because the Repubes think they can make up their own rules. Accountability...we need accountability. Or we could be stuck in the Middle East for a hundred years like McCain said we could be.

Posted by: Marie N | September 11, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Karl Rove was lobbying for occupying Iraq in late 90s. Repugs made up the WMD "fact" and attacked Iraq along with coalition of "(oil) stealing". If Jesus is Bush's role model then how could he lie (WMD) to the world and attempt to steal the oil for himself & his buddies? Repugs don't hesitate to use anything to quench their greed for power Jesus, Military, 9/11, Televangelists, Pope, oil corporations, you name it. McBush & DikPalin can bring us change? NO! It's going to be same old fish in new wrap it's stinking and it's going to stink!!

Posted by: Disgusted_By_Repugnicans | September 11, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Isn't it funny how Dems turn to name calling and bashing when someone makes a point they don't like.

Here is a great article on the Iraq War and how Obama is unlikely to be able to do anything about it.

http://myrealitytelevision.com/2008/09/obama-versus-mccain-iraq-war/

It is covering an issue. Something most of you seem to skip.

Posted by: Reality | September 11, 2008 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Obama couldn't have stated it more clearly: Don't mock the Constitution. For the past eight years we have had an administration who ignored both the Constitution and International Law whenever they found the provisions of same inconvenient. It is increasingly apparent that a McCain-Palin administration would bring for more years of the same neglect of the very provisions our country was founded on. Only by demonstrating an unwavering commitment to the rule of law can the U.S. regain the position of global respect that it used to enjoy. That is the "change" that needs to happen, and it needs to happen now.

Posted by: Lauri | September 11, 2008 1:34 AM | Report abuse

pat,

unfortunately he did, the science that we have perfected as a society is the ability to work together toward common miscommunication.

the problem with perfection is, without a choice its never perfect, however, just because we have free will, doesn't mean its a blessing, with the choice to be imperfect at hand, we can chose wrong.

(as for the liberty comment its necessary to be governed in order to have liberty, because freedom without governing is dog eat dog, where you are bound by the unprovoked actions of people who are less fortunate and see you as a target for advancement)

Posted by: dale | September 11, 2008 1:14 AM | Report abuse

successful troll is successful.

Posted by: anon | September 11, 2008 12:12 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Reality | September 10, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse


Obama doesn't believe in the Constitution. He plays the race card saying anyone against him is racist and makes sexist remarks against women who run against him.

As for debate, Obama refused to debate Hillary, because even with the media against her, she still beat him in the one on one interviews. So he didn't have the guts to debate again. He is running against McCain now and calls the VP bad names.

I think Sarah Palin can think for herself and she needs to let the media know she will stand up for herself and not back down like Hillary did. I believe in voting for the candidates and straight party. While I vote mostly Democrat, I do split my vote. I usually vote for the least of two evils. At this point, it is anyone but Obama.

I can't and won't vote for a racist or a sexist. I have never knowingly done so and I won't start now.

Posted by: ksienna | September 10, 2008 9:49 PM | Report abuse

dale,

its nice of you to talk about America. Interestingly it was built after the local people were decimated.

But lets talk about freedom. Freedom from what? British? now they are bed partners. What do you mean, freedom is to be "governed"?

It is interesting to note that it is required to utter some sentences which ironically contain the word "liberty".

i love your comment about nerds though, you are spot on.

Just a thought, from what you said in your essay about jesus' ability, it would have been lot easier and lot less violent if god started up a creation(or jesus transformed it) that does not involve such brutality that actually exists in this world.

Posted by: Pat | September 10, 2008 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Every time I see people mix religion with politics, it makes me want to gouge my eyes out.

It's really depressing to see where our nation is headed when people are picking a president based on his religion, name, skin color, etc.

I'm fairly certain that McCain will win just because he is white. The Average American(tm) doesn't want to see a black president. Though, come November, I can be proven wrong.

Posted by: Sambo | September 10, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

the prophets required him not only to die on the cross but to do so in a humble manner, if you will remember before he uttered his prayer his personality (which one must assume is also perfect if they beleive in his example at all) lead him to shout out in rage at the injustice. in fact much of jesus overall character was defined in the prophet isaiah. most of which referred to him who would "make clear the darkness" (also later re-referred to in the gospel of john).

jesus was first and foremost a man focused on making clear that which was veiled or ignored by the populous. that it is not people in power who make the laws, but god, and god does so in respect to love. not the type of love that brings 2 teenagers together to have an illegitimate child, but the type of love that grounds a child from their own prom because they made a bad choice for their lives.

however his example in death was to realize that injustice occurs and the only thing one can do to deal with it, is accept it and pray for those who are causing it.

jesus however did not (tho he had the ability) destroy those parliamentary procedures or theologies in the minds of the people, instead he submitted to them and was righteous by himself.

its not the job of a governmental institution to place a picture of a diverse people or uphold moralities that half the country does not agree with or beleive to be moral.

one might argue that it is the job of the American government to lead by this example, but its not. it is the job of the American people. the government is not what the French look down at when they tour their country. it is the arrogance of the people.

if you beleive it is the job of America to set an example, understand that we never started this country for that purpose, we started it for freedom. the problem with freedom is it MUST be governed or nothing is safe.

therefore the primary purpose of the government is to protect the citizens, not to promote a self righteous persona on the tax payer dime.

its consistently acknowledged that all great civilizations dropped into anarchy when their constituents were more worried about what they could get out of government than what they could put in.

the most basic form of government being 2 weak people banding together in an anarchy to protect their possessions from those who are stronger than them.

its how nerds still exist :), cus together they can beat up a bully.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 7:03 PM | Report abuse

dale,

there are questions i ask of democrats too, but they r not in power now so that i can ask any relevant questns.

Posted by: pat | September 10, 2008 6:50 PM | Report abuse

I am not a democrat. bad assumption. just coz some one understands the difference between a suspect and a convict does not mean one is a democrat. did i put forward my ideals. most of what i was doing was questioning. there is a difference between an affirmation and a question.

Since you seem to be well versed with bible i was just asking some questions. never did i claim to be a scholar of bible.

you answered the requirement question but not the other. did the prophecies require jesus to die on a cross?

Posted by: Pat | September 10, 2008 6:44 PM | Report abuse

are you ignorant or just illiterate?

as i statted before, fiscal conservation was not something bush is familiar with, he has a spending record rivaled only by the most fiscal democrats.

if u read my previous statement, i declared bush was not a proponent of fiscal conservation. so yes, thank you for proving that democrats are not interested in morally listening to another but instead self righteously toting thier ideals :D

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 6:22 PM | Report abuse

and yes, the prophecies DID require he die in a helpless fashion.

pLEASE read the bible before claiming to comprehend it.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Another question dale,

the iraq war cost is in hundreds of billions of taxpayers $ and counting. where do the fiscal conservative ideals lie here.

Posted by: Pat | September 10, 2008 6:16 PM | Report abuse

bud thats not morality, and no morality is not a constant. i can quote for you that john the apostle ate nothing and was seen as a demon, while jesus ate and drank and was called a glutton yet BOTH were moral for their purpose.

(ill find the verse if u insist but its taxing as i teach theology and have highlighted and saved many verses for future discussion)

john mccain has a record of despising torture for anyone (duh). but the point is there is perceived morality and there is actual morality.

the pharisees whome jesus condemned would not help a man dying on the sabbath because to lift too much or take more than 12 steps was considered work.

this is the exact concept of the fundamental extremist view barack obama is forcing on constitutional interpretation.

his true colors would let the united states be bombed before he would give up self righteous "honor" as he perceives it.

while the greatest man god ever invoked to power was a man who "would become even more undignified in his own eyes for the sake of the lord" and keep in mind, he commited such "moral depravity" as adultery and murder.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 6:14 PM | Report abuse

dale,

morality is absolute. does not depend on jesus time or some other time.

did the prophecies require that he died the way he did, in a helpless fashion.

and when did obama say "we shoot both".
bush and cheney eliminated habeas corpus since they are not citizens. i am not talking legality here. i am talking morality. mccain never spoke against locking suspects(not convicts) up. never did he speak against the treatment for the suspects.

palin also said that iraq war was god's will and george bush talked about crusade in 2001. is this the way fellow human beings are to be treated. remember i am not against punishing convicts.

also another question i have; a little diversion tho. why was jesus not black. the prophecies did not require him to be non-black.

Posted by: Pat | September 10, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

yes i understand the difference, the difference is obama suggest we shoot both, so we dont have to go through habeas corpus, mccain suggests it doesnt apply. who is more humane?

no i didnt suggest jesus was an idiot, i suggested that the assumption that he did so to be humble is ignorant.

jesus did so in order to fulfill specific prophecies in order to prove that he was the messiah, he did not do it for self righteous humility.

tho i suppose if people THINK you are being moral, you must be.

oh wait, wasnt it considered in jesus time to be immoral if u had fecal matter touching you, who wants to know how many times jesus put that into question?

im sorry i have no interest in self righteousness, but in actual moral equivalence.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Our ratification of the Third Geneva Convention comes with reservations publicly declared upon signing:

"The United States reserve the right to impose the death penalty in accordance with the provisions of Article 68, paragraph 2, without regard to whether the offences referred to therein are punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory at the time the occupation begins."

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/NORM/D6B53F5B5D14F35AC1256402003F9920?OpenDocument

In other words: We reserve the right to execute as we see fit, irrespective of the laws of the occupied territory (and not necessarily according to our own laws).

Posted by: Michael F | September 10, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

dale ,

are you saying jesus was stupid for not fighting the people who killed him?

Even if you say so, letting go a convict may be stupid. Torturing a suspect is cruel.

interestingly the social conservatives are supposed to be the torchbearers of morality.

Posted by: pat | September 10, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

dale, JUSTICE, even in capital letters is not equivalent to torturing a suspect. Killing a convict is different. Do you understand the difference between a suspect and a convict? Guess you are so blinded by hatred that you may not even know the American legal system. A convict is different from a suspect. A suspect is not necessarily a criminal.

Posted by: pat | September 10, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

pat your logic is insane, simply and clearly.

yes jesus preached compassion for our enemies, but he did not preach stupidity for them.

he sent his disciples out saying "be innocent as lambs but shrewd as vipers"

he wants us to be honorable and stand up for JUSTICE.

he advocated eye for an eye, the harshest punishment possible.

contrary to popular beleif jesus was not an idiot who just took what people threw at him, the only reason he did at teh end of his life was to fulfill the prophets before him.

you use one instance to validate your claims, but teh entire life and purpose of jesus speaks to mine.

pulease, dont do what liberals across america are doing and only use teh half of the story that fits your ignorance.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

dale, Even on the cross he said "forgive my enemies". If only people had half the passion they would realize torture of suspects (not convicts) is cruel. Now calling someone hypocrite is different from torturing all the while noting that the subject here is a suspect not convict.

Posted by: Pat | September 10, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

jesus didnt categorize people as sinners? he didnt throw the priests out of the temple calling them hypocrits?

go read the bible, find out who jesus is

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Someone here was suggesting since Palin used "lipstick" she has patent over the word. Yeah, if Repugnicans use a word then nobody else can use that word. They can use your song without your permission. They can go hunting, get drunk and shoot you in the face and still avoid arrest. I want my country back and want my democracy now!!!

Posted by: I_want_my_democracy_now | September 10, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Vote For Obama And Vote For Black Power

Roryn
(Mod)

Posted by: RoryN | September 10, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I remember Jesus did not differentiate and categorize people as dale is doing here. May be dale is not a christian. It is a matter of unconditional love just like Jesus loved, even his enemies.

Looks like this is the actual "fall of man"

Posted by: Pat | September 10, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

When is the victory? when Republicans say so. What's racism? whatever Repubs say it is. What's sexism? whatever Repubs say so. Recession, Torture, Teen-pregnancy, pig, god, change. They own everything. They tell you what to think. They tell you what to question and what not to question. You're not entitled. Repubs are the ones that are entitled because they got guns, god, pastors, pope, racist rednecks, big oil, mansions, religous zealots and Saudis.

Posted by: when_rabid_repubs_say_so | September 10, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

family does not come first, you are taking what they stated out of context.

however, "family" does come first, the people who aid and support others come before people who divide and deceive others.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Someone here said that family comes first and hence torture is justified. Now what about Jesus? Did he have a family? All of a sudden Jesus ceased to be a role model or what?

Posted by: Pat | September 10, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

its called fiscal conservation, something bush never had, something clinton never had, again, a democrat spouting knowledge they dont have, while people where satisfied with economy of the clinton administration it was clintons economic principles (HOUSING, mortgage, equity, etc.) that lead to the downfall we are in right now.

face it, leading economical strategists constantly confer that the economy of today is based on decisions made 7-10 years previous. its because of what we take advantage of for economical growth that leads to ballooning and then popping of that balloon.

the concept of republican fiscal conservation is not of growth now that is quadrennially accumulated and stored, its the process of investing for a future boom.

which is often accredited to a democrat being in the whitehouse because the average persons view of economical growth is this semesters growth.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

"Added to that is Obama's higher taxes to trash the economy."

Yeah, taxes so high that (1) most people will not see their taxes go up and (2) those that do have their taxes go up won't be paying any more than they did under Clinton.

And we all remember how badly the economy did during the Clinton years, right?

The ability to completely disregard recent history is truly astounding.

Oh, and McCain is promising still more tax cuts with no way to pay for them. Want to borrow even more money from China?

We're not paying our bills, folks. Time to start making different decisions.

Posted by: dsimon3000 | September 10, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

theres nothing racist about equating lipstick to lipstick, did hillary clinton ever define herself using a joke about lipstick?

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Terrible racist republicans showing their true colors -- It's okay if Mcsame uses "lipstick on pig" phrase to criticize Mrs. Clinton's health-care plan but it's NOT okay for Obama to use the phrase while explaining "McBush Change" to American people. I'm neither black nor white I'm Korean but Republican's racism is showing.

Posted by: OneHumanRace | September 10, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

brendan,

a treaty is a contract, remember teh war of 1812? ya that was a breach of the treaty in the revolutionary war, should we have waited for them to take over america and tried them all for breaking it?


and its comparable because hes going out of his way to enforce a law that he made up, from his own interpretations. its ironic that a person can call murder pro choice tho.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

dale why would obama's "claim to constitutional value" "the equivalent of him telling sarah palin she should have aborted trig palin"? because obama is pro-choice?

Posted by: Lindsay | September 10, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

@dale: actually, no, the Geneva convention is not a contract; it's a treaty. You don't go around killing people because they killed people. They deserve punishment, but they must be properly tried.

If America is a leader, and I believe we are leaders, then we need to lead in doing the right thing. I, for one, don't want America to stoop to the terrorists' level of low.

Justice should be blind and swift, but it should never be stupid.

Posted by: Brendan | September 10, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

whether you uphold the geneva convention or not (considering that the geneva convention to most works as a contract, when one person breaches it you reserve the right to then breach it yourself).

a landlord is supposed to just sit around and let his tenants break their contract by not paying, but not evict them? because they have a family and putting them out on the street is inhumane? what about HIS family? he is now supporting his tenants familys but hes unable to support his own.

unfortunate as it may be its necessary to break free of regulations. i suggest people watch the mediocre movie demolition man. its the existence of a world where even guns are outlawed by a similar concept as the Geneva convention. and what a surprise that a person has to use guns in order to bring down the major criminal involved. this is what the people dying face, someone who is beyond the Geneva conventions supposed universal binding who is not humane to anyone.

but again please, back to the point, whether or not her statement was stating a position, it was, but whether or not that position was constitutional or not, is a BLATANT LIE.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

let me elaborate, essentially barack obama's claim to constitutional value is the equivalent of him telling sarah palin she should have aborted trig palin.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

>The UNITES STATES constitution applies to the UNITED STATES CITIZENS.

"These People" captured are NOT US citizens.

Just as German law does not apply to US citizens in Albania, US law does not apply to Saudi, Jordanian, or Iranian citizens in Afghanistan.

Ever heard of International Law? Yeah, neither has this current administration.

We have signed the articles of the Geneva Convention which prohibit, amongst other things, torture and humiliation of captives. Furthermore, people can only be classified as "combatants" or "non-combatants". Creating new terms to try to rob an individual of their humanity does not circumvent these laws. You are either an enemy or a civilian. You cannot be a non-person.

Those found in violation of these articles can be tried for war crimes at the Hague...

...also, don't forget that we are arresting and detaining American citizens as well...

Posted by: Nick | September 10, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

The UNITES STATES constitution applies to the UNITED STATES CITIZENS.

"These People" captured are NOT US citizens.

Just as German law does not apply to US citizens in Albania, US law does not apply to Saudi, Jordanian, or Iranian citizens in Afghanistan.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Why does Barack even bother his display of false outrage about alleged mocking of the Constitution at a rally if only 29% of his supporters "believe the [Supreme Court] justices should rule on what is in the Constitution"?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/supreme_court_ratings/supreme_court_update

Posted by: ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm | September 10, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Constitutional rights may only be guaranteed for American citizens, but we have also signed the articles of the Geneva Convention...

Posted by: Nick | September 10, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Obama clearly articulates a vision of a better nation and a better world. While he challenges Republicans on issues, they respond with lies and fear-mongering, their bread and butter. As Kennedy inspired us to excel scientifically with his vision of a manned mission to the moon, Obama similarly inspires us to do something many believe is equally far-fetched - to realize our united potential as a nation. The rabid Right can't seem to embrace such vision, but the dream will survive and become reality. Having trouble sleeping? Can't remember your dreams? Try Obama Pajamas, Ojamas.

Posted by: Ojamas | September 10, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

In the end, it doesn't matter who gets elected. How much can one person do against a world's problem run by at least a billion people.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2008 7:40 AM | Report abuse

why hold prisoners in guantanamo bay and other secret sites on foreign soil (poland etc.) if what you are doing is legal?

perhaps jesus did feel force was sometimes necesary (disregard that whole "turn the other cheek" rant i had low blood sugar, lol) but i dont think he would approve of how his words are convieniently reinterpreted to oppress the poor and disadvantaged while placing the rich and powerful on an even taller and more bloodstained "moral pedestal."

Posted by: tiredofliesandliars | September 10, 2008 7:40 AM | Report abuse

I dislike false rumors as much as anyone, but can a member of the press please confirm why Sara Plain is not at least 7 months pregnant in this public Governors photo taken with President Bush in February 2008? Her baby was supposedly born on April 18, 2008.

http://www.subnet.nga.org/centennial/2008Meeting.htm from Feb, 2008 (click text link "View Larger Photo")

This photo is from March 14th 2008, where she clearly is not 7 months pregnant:

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0fcQ5EM7gafd9

Finally, she is also on the cover of December issue of Vogue which was taken December 12, 2007. She should have been 4-5 months preganant. Clearly shes not.

Reportedly, her water broke the day before or hours before she gave birth in Texas and flew 8 hour to Alaska in labor? Would a doctor/the airline allow this?

Why did she supposedly announce she was pregnant after 7 months?

There are claims she didn't look pregnant from public video interviews about the annoucement.

Why are there no photos/evidence supporting this?

Something isn't adding up?

Posted by: Dana | September 10, 2008 7:24 AM | Report abuse

I dislike false rumors as much as anyone, but can a member of the press please confirm why Sara Plain is not at least 7 months pregnant in this public Governors photo taken with President Bush in February 2008? Her baby was supposedly born on April 18, 2008.

http://www.subnet.nga.org/centennial/2008Meeting.htm from Feb, 2008 (click text link "View Larger Photo")

This photo is from March 14th 2008, where she clearly is not 7 months pregnant:

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0fcQ5EM7gafd9

Finally, she is also on the cover of December issue of Vogue which was taken December 12, 2007. She should have been 4-5 months preganant. Clearly shes not.

Reportedly, her water broke the day before or hours before she gave birth in Texas and flew 8 hour to Alaska in labor? Would a doctor/the airline allow this?

Why did she supposedly announce she was pregnant after 7 months?

There are claims she didn't look pregnant from public video interviews about the annoucement.

Why are there no photos/evidence supporting this?

Something isn't adding up?

Posted by: Dana | September 10, 2008 7:23 AM | Report abuse

John McCain is a sell-out and exposed he is just a typical Republican politician by picking Palin. He picked her to appease his base and poach Hillary votes. Palin wasn’t the best or most qualified, it’s because he knew she would be popular. How is that being a "maverick"? How is it ‘Country First”? How is this “I rather win a war than loose an election”?
I’ll say it again, John McCain is a sell-out.

The most important metric for picking a VP is they are ready to step in from day one. His judgment is reckless and he gambled at our expense. The mere fact Palin is being educated on foreign policy indicates she wasn’t prepared on day one.

I lost all my respect for John McCain. He's not the hero today he was 35 years ago. McCain is nothing without Palin.

What does it say about a campaign that has to "mimic" what and who Obama is, not to mention hijack Obamas core message of Change from day one just to poach votes? Is that all they view Obama as, a "product" a "formula", a “personality”? It makes McCain look weak and more importantly, the American people stupid if they fall for it.

Now all these puppets are willing to just get behind her without even knowing anything about her and try to convince the American public she is prepared to be VP or President while they gave Obama hell for 20 months straight? Not even uncertain objectiveness, caution, pause or question just because she has an "R" in front of her name? How can anyone make a clear determination reasonably in less than 60 days?

Bravo America! We look like complete idiots once again while the world watches. I am truly embarrassed of my country. I guess all isn’t lost, at least many will have Palin’s eye glass frames while our country crumbles economically. We are such tools.

British Prime Minister Backs Obama
http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2008/09/brown-backs-oba.html

World wants Obama
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/09/2360240.htm?section=world


Posted by: mike | September 10, 2008 7:20 AM | Report abuse

lol, tony your basing constitutional interpretation on the way that presidential candidates have historically ran.

newsflash, the majority of the country identifys as democrat, because there are more democrats overall registered than republicans. obviously they blame the party for president bushes actions.

simply because a majority beleives it, doesnt make it extremist. remember that there was a time when it was normal to own slaves, yet the view is now an extremist one.

the simple reality is that obamas interpretation of the constitution and his willful disregard for alternative interpretations lead him to call sarah palin unconstitutional for her claims.

however, jeremiah wright would also call me unchristian for not supporting my brethren in the race war and the beleif that 9/11 was started by the bush administration.

i fundamentally disagree with jeremiah wright on this issue, does that make me unchristian? no, it makes jeremiah wright an extremist who pushes his own agenda.

what a miraculous coincidence that obama has taken the same approach against sarah palin putting his views as the ONLY VALID INTERPRETATION OF THE CONSTITUTION.

for the less educated, let me clarify that there are at least 4 major valid interpretations of the constitution, none of which beleive that the interpretation is meant for those people who are not part of American citizenship. and in fact they did not grant habeas corpus to British spys during the American revolution

that extremist view that only ONE interpretation is valid, and that that interpretation that is valid is EXTREMIST LIBERAL, is not something anyone needs, especially not in the whitehouse.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 3:23 AM | Report abuse

Okay people, try join the MAJORITY of the country and stop putting your own words into the speeches of these two men. Listen to what they have to say and think about it, don't start forming your attack before they've finished speaking. Whether you're ULTRA-conservative or you're ULTRA liberal, you sound ULTRA-STUPID!!! Stop the wannabe political punditry.

Obama has a valid point here. The past administration used similar comments to this one by Palin. Bush, Ashcroft, and Cheney frequently dismissed basic human rights discussion as "quaint foolishness" or even "un-American". McCain on the other hand has NOT used dismissive or mocking arguments like this to make those who disagree with him look unpatriotic. He knows that we ALL love America and would ALL go to great lengths to defend it. He believes that his policies are better, but he doesn't talk of Barack as if he is a foreign spy or some bullsh!t.

The fact that in many ways Palin sounds much more like Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft than McCain is concerning. Perhaps it's her lack of national attention until now. She is a good speaker, but over-generalizations like this are offensive and manipulative. Barack was right to call her out on it, and I'm sure McCain's people will keep Palin in check.

You may commence with the idiocy.....

Posted by: Tony | September 10, 2008 3:05 AM | Report abuse

I think it's fairly obvious that Dale is not all there. Well, except maybe to Dale.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2008 2:42 AM

a democrat who hates me, i dont think ive ever been more complimented in my life. thank you :).

however, when you get enough "nuts" to post your name, then you can claim that i am "nuts". ^_^.

also, if u want to get into the logical debate, sanity is DEFINED by public opinion. and according to the public opinion of the people of the 12th century, it was sane to sacrifice your child and eat your enemies hearts...in some places of the world it may still be.

so yes, in a mind that believes sanity is defined by the liberal agenda, i quite take pleasure in being "not all there".

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 2:48 AM | Report abuse

heh,

we wait till the palin interview, there will be an article for every sentence if the washington post has its way. defining every single thing including sentence struction to be either smug or an outright lie.

perhaps we should start making up things to claim she lied about, im sure shes half mermaid and has been hiding it from the liberals for months, just like trig.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 2:43 AM | Report abuse

I think it's fairly obvious that Dale is not all there. Well, except maybe to Dale.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2008 2:42 AM | Report abuse

dale

This topic is beat to death and the dems have shown their colors over and over.

How does a person go about starting a new topic?

Posted by: Clinging to my religion | September 10, 2008 2:38 AM | Report abuse

also for more proof that my interpretation is not only not un-christian, but very much christian.

amongst the apostles at least 3 were famously jailed in the bible and more historically. amongst his non-apostles i recall stephen the martyr being stoned after being tried.

and jesus himself was sent to jail and crucified. all of these men in reality being innocent.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 2:27 AM | Report abuse

I think many Republicans are dissapointed that we have a Constitution. It keeps them from taking away more freedoms, and taking even more advantage of The United States of America than they already do.

Support our country. SUPPORT THE PEOPLE of this nation. Vote Obama.

Posted by: stan | September 10, 2008 2:26 AM | Report abuse

and jesus quote was not directed at devils, or demons, or even people of pure evil, it was directed at people who felt that it was direct law to put peoples lives at risk for the sake of tradition and self-righteous morality.

that would fall under your interpretation of the constitution.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 2:24 AM | Report abuse

in jesus words "get away from me you evil doers, i never knew you"

to claim that jesus was not forceful against stupidity, is ignorance the exact kind jesus would have overturned tables for.

dont claim understanding that you dont have whatever was condescending in my voice exists only because you do and should feel ashamed of views that directly chose you over the safety of others, that i will not appologize for.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 2:20 AM | Report abuse

Below was from me.

Posted by: Susan | September 10, 2008 2:10 AM | Report abuse

Dale,

Did you notice that I did not insult you once? Did you notice that I was not condescending to you?

Why all the hostility towards me? Cannot two people have a serious discussion without all the hate?

Do you think Jesus would approve? He most certainly would NOT.

To imply that I have anything to hide is malicious to say the least. I assure you that I have nothing to hide.

You sir are very naive if you would say, "innocent people truly innocent ones, realize they are innocent, they face interrogation knowing they have nothing to lose as they are innocent."

First, that makes no sense. Innocent people don't MIND being put in prison and tortured because they know that they are innocent. I think if I were in that situation, I'd be more concerned with my CAPTORS knowing that I was innocent. But of course without habeas corpus, I would have no way to prove it.

I suppose that's just tough luck.

It's obvious that you are open to a frank discussion without slandering the person you are speaking with. Very unchristian to say the least. VERY UNCHRISTIAN.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2008 2:07 AM | Report abuse

and simply for clarification, perhaps to you its not the black and white issue partisans try to paint, but the extremist view of habeaus corpus granted by the pre-amble of the constitution when the forefathers did not follow it during the revolutionary war is EXPRESSLY, an extremist left wing ideology.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 2:00 AM | Report abuse

susuan, hear me for a second, innocent people truly innocent ones, realize they are innocent, they face interrogation knowing they have nothing to lose as they are innocent, and are perfectly fine facing it knowing they are innocent.

simply because you wouldnt stand up to an invasion of your own privacy because you think its wrong for someone to look into your life, or because you are ashamed of something they might find, just goes to show that you do not respect the freedom you have, and you would willingly use it in a dis affectionate way.

jesus, who should be an example to all people, whether they beleive in the bible or not, preached that if you truly obey and follow the lord your god, your actions would follow in step.

there is no doubt in my mind, that the world is imperfect. but there is no doubt in my mind that there are internal motivations that over-validate things that are socially moral.

the pharisees in thier day would not help a person dying because if they walked 15 steps on teh sabbath it was considered work.

this is teh exact same concept as extremist interpretation of the constitution (like obama's). that we should not even protect our familys, if it means offending someone who is innocent of the crime.

if a man in arkansas, goes to war and dies for my freedom, then i in washington, will gladly be put through public scrutiny for his familys safety.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 1:56 AM | Report abuse

Dale,

Hear me for a minute. No partisan stuff okay? I am an Independent anyway.

Many of the people who were/are detained were not caught in the act. Instead, names were solicited from Iraqis...possibly even from terrorist themselves because let's be honest, there's often no way to tell who is a terrorist as we know. Soliciting names is how our government took prisoners. They all were not caught in the act in the act of a street fight.

Surely you realize that innocent people were named in order to settle old scores. An easy way to get rid of your enemies yes? Of course.

It is a very difficult situation that we are in. There really are no easy answers. I certainly do not wish for terrorists to be released only to encounter them again. At the same time, can you imagine the injustice if you were innocent? This happens all the time when the foundation of habeas corpus is not present. It happened to a relative of my friend during the Franco fascist years in Spain. Walking home from work and encountered freedom fighters (of course to Franco they were terrorists...the name depends on which side you are on after all). He disappeared...just disappeared for almost a week.

This isn't the black and white issue that many partisans like to paint.


And please

Posted by: Susan | September 10, 2008 1:45 AM | Report abuse

anju,

check ur facts, sarah palin was consistantly the highest voted vp choice on john mccains shortlist, and considered the only candidate who had more benefits than negativities.

however, if you would please go and check obamas choices, and realize that amongst the top where the antithesis of joe biden, you might realize that obama couldnt care less about the people even in his own parties opinion polls.

hence the 10 point drop in obama support across teh nation.

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 1:32 AM | Report abuse

Choice of a "character" like Sarah Palin in itself is mocking the America nation ! ... God save America.

Posted by: Anju Chandel | September 10, 2008 1:24 AM | Report abuse

how can any "avid obama supporter" claim that anyone is leaning to the republican base, when 1) he has just gone up 10 points among independants. 2) he had the least applause in history in a convention acceptance speech because he was denouncing his own party

but i suppose you would have to comprehend republican values on hte issues to know either way.

as for the values of obamas party, IQ #.

well let me just tell you "...Most kids with Down syndrome have mild to moderate mental retardation (IQ 30 to 60)"

so ya, sarah palin and trig palins iq is less on average than barack and his daughters average.

of course, if we took that into democratic policy, wouldnt we just abort anyone who might be born poor?

Posted by: dale | September 10, 2008 12:34 AM | Report abuse

The Republicans are running a personality contest with Palin. She's just some insane, corrupt, holy-rolling religious wacko. John McCain is going to ruin your party and it is going to be hilarious to watch if he wins....I almost hope he DOES win and I'm an avid Obama supporter. He's just bending to the base right now. You guys obviously don't know him if you think this is not going to happen and are blinded by the war hero stories. Those stories are amazing, but they are the past.

Posted by: Dave | September 10, 2008 12:30 AM | Report abuse

Joseph- Please explain to me how Obama is taking the low road?

And TIM - YOU NEED TO TURN OFF YOUR CAPS AND STOP HATIN

Posted by: goldnchyl | September 10, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

you are an idiot if you think someone is just going out and accusing people of being terrorists they are looking in areas that are known to harbor terrorists.

so yes, if a man came into my house, with a knife, headed towards my daughters room, i would shoot him....sorry if thats you just innocently patrolling my halls.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse

For all you "you wouldn't be so worried about the Constitution if it was your child's life at stake," I have just one question: would you kill someone you _thought_ *might* hurt your child? Or would you want to be, I don't know, a little more certain of the danger than that?

Posted by: cognizant | September 9, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Now basic human morality says that torture is immoral. Its only a bunch of people who are not passionate and torture people for years. These people are usually al-qeeda, neo-cons and some communists.

Posted by: Carter | September 9, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse

richard, boy are u out of touch

Posted by: richard doodle | September 9, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

President George W. Bush once said: "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face. It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

That one statement alone is enough to impeach him, in my opinion.

Link: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml

Posted by: Shimmer | September 9, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

i wouldnt care i dont have to fly to be a patriot. and i was simply using the arguement to illustrate your liberal bias, stating someone is immoral for caring about people is idiocy at its finest.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse

ah yes... the "what if terrorists take your frailed child away" comments. I thought terrorists wanted to hurt/kill the most amount of people, so this argument dosn't fit at all. What if *you* were placed on the no-fly list and you couldn't get off of it and the goverment WONT tell you why your on the list. good luck with that one.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 11:41 PM | Report abuse

Dear Anonymous,

You can call them "TERRORIST MILITANT ARAB PRISONERS" when they are convicted and they may not have rights at that point.

Until convicted they are suspects. There you go , responding to the thrust of article. I hope you understand the diff between "convict" and ""suspect".

Posted by: Carter | September 9, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse

even after obama proves he doesnt understand the constitution?

face it, if your child was the target of a terrorists plot, you would set habeaus corpus aside as well for expediency's sake, the simple fact that you cant disassociate yourself from family values versus actual morality (in affect caring for EVERYONE) proves that you cant talk about the moral status of anyone let alone claim its contradictory amongst republicans.

just because your focus is a self righteous morality wherein America can claim "we are righterer than everyone else" doesn't mean that is moral.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 11:20 PM | Report abuse

I also would rather have two lawyers who UNDERSTAND and APPRECIATE the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES. Than someone with a BA in JOURNALISM and someone who graduated #895 or something out of #899. talk about achievement--NOT!!

Posted by: MariaL1 | September 9, 2008 10:59 PM | Report abuse

I just can't even get past the first comment, we wonder why things have gotten so bad?

Are you all so incapable for just responding to the thrust of this article? The constitution and the rights of prisoners even TERRORIST MILITANT ARAB PRISONERS is a big deal. Yet all the responses are just propaganda for the chosen candidate.

Are we so incapable of any form of intelligent communication? Obviously this is anon posting on the iterwebs but it really is sickening to read any commentary thread full of hate and unthinking bile.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 10:38 PM | Report abuse

You bring in tons of suspects(not convicts) and lock them up for year without telling why and then torture them. Not that is moral

Interestingly social conservatives are supposed to be torchbearers of morality.

Oh, US and its morality. I guess the old adage stays "might is right", its not about morality.

Posted by: Sam | September 9, 2008 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Repubs these days have been reduced to endlessly repeating the tired old arguments against Obama.

Those that bring up his association with Tony Rezko, please read up on McCain's Keating scandal. For those that mindlessly go on about Rev. Wright, please check out the radical views of Palin's Church and Pastor Hagee. Those that imply Obama is corrupt just because he is from Chicago, please look up the politics in Alaska - known to be the most corrupt state in the US.

For those that believe in the fake scandals of Dems mistreating US Flags please grow a brain.

God Bless America.

----------------------------------------

leave it to a democrat to prove a republican point, the media only reports on palin and mccain, while one must research to even find the information on rezko and others.

thank you for stating quite clearly "OBAMA IS JUST ANOTHER CORRUPT POLITICIAN"

but what sets mccain apart is the point all republicans have made for ages. he puts himself on the line, obama puts himself on the bandwagon.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 10:10 PM | Report abuse

What do you mean by... "these people"?

Posted by: Robert Downey, Jr. | September 9, 2008 10:07 PM | Report abuse

First, let me say that "these" people are the same as "those" people. It's a reference to people that some people use. How about "baby" and "sweety" that you hear people being called in some places of business. Are you (the one who raised the issue) offended by that?

You protect what you love. To protect the Constitution is to say that you love America. Senator Obama is fit to lead this country because he loves the Constitution and he loves America! He has taught, served, worked and persevered through the American struggle. You don't have to be a POW to prove your love for country!

Everyone has their "favorite rights". Religion, speech, press, etc. The President and all of us should do our best to protect them all as best we can understand what the founders tried to say in the document that we call the Constitution. And, when we need to make it better, we ought to have the courage, with Gods help, to make it better for all of us! "These" or "those" people whoever the reference might refer to!

Posted by: Woody | September 9, 2008 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Repubs these days have been reduced to endlessly repeating the tired old arguments against Obama.

Those that bring up his association with Tony Rezko, please read up on McCain's Keating scandal. For those that mindlessly go on about Rev. Wright, please check out the radical views of Palin's Church and Pastor Hagee. Those that imply Obama is corrupt just because he is from Chicago, please look up the politics in Alaska - known to be the most corrupt state in the US.

For those that believe in the fake scandals of Dems mistreating US Flags please grow a brain.

God Bless America.

Posted by: dmarla | September 9, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

lol, id rather make a point than make an impression ;).

THE english language as well as other languages was invented for THE purpose of communicating, whats the point in correct spelling or punctuation if your point is made.

would that have been any less clear if i spelled it teh? or eht? or het or hte?

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 9:59 PM | Report abuse

Hey Dale,

I know that it's a confusing word, and that it has a lot of letters in it, but please, for the sake of your fellow right-wingers: learn to spell: T-H-E.

Posted by: Randal | September 9, 2008 9:48 PM | Report abuse

doug christian,

what hte liberal left wing extremists beleive are rights such as teh right to kill children and teh right to pornography for children who make it past abortion

ARE NOT the rights fought for, and there is no one person who goes to war for those so called rights.

dont claim that your rights are the rights granted by teh constitution.

did you forget, its a liberal agenda to get rid of the second amendment?

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

The right-wingers love to talk about military service. What exactly are you fighting for if not our constitutional freedoms? Do you just like to blow stuff up? You talk about how much more you love America than everyone else. Do you really?

Posted by: Doug Christian | September 9, 2008 9:33 PM | Report abuse

Someone help me understand who are the candidates on the top of the ticket. Why would Obama spend so much time on Palin? It appears to me Obama is not confident enough in his message he has to attack a VP candidate. This has never been seen in politics before.

Get to the issues! Stop talking about lipstick and the constitution. It has already been trampled on enough by both parties.

Posted by: Jeffrey | September 9, 2008 9:31 PM | Report abuse

its not the death of the constitution you ignorant liberal, its teh death of extremist ideology.

this is the VERY reason why organizations like the kkk are created, vastly supressive ideological beleifs about major documents.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Well, the crazed right wingers have jumped the shark in this series of posts. "This talk won't play in America". Well, if the constitution won't play in America ( the rights defined in that document) then I guess our greatness and what actually MADE us America is in our past.

Amazing - this won't play in America. I'm stunned. Our rights are what we fought for in the war of independance from England. The right to worship. The right to confront our accusers. The right to bear arms. It's a package deal folks. You don't get some rights and not others. The founding fathers were pretty slick... kind of rolled all the good stuff into one grand document.

Our rights are why we don't have a king.

The right to stand before a judge is fundemental to the protections derived the Constitution.

It is entirely plausible that with the death of our constitution so goes our nation.

Good luck folks! Obama/Biden - now more than ever.

Posted by: dr | September 9, 2008 9:19 PM | Report abuse

abigail,

as valid as your point is, its not like osama bin ladin is gonna come out and greet us so we can just catch him without catching his "footsoldiers".

the purpose not only of catching his footsoldiers but demanding they cooperate is to reach osama, if obama really doesnt understand that, he doesnt realize that bad people are bad people, and as such why shouldnt we just be in bed with them?

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Obama is right. I've studied "jihadism" and "Qutbism" and I've read the "literature" bin Laden and Zawahiri put out.

bin Laden and Zawahiri are the people we need to get. The terrorists we generally get who are at Guantamano are merely foot soldiers who are part of the elaborate cell structure of al-Qaeda. They are the people that get sucked in by the rhetoric of bin Laden and who do the dirty work. Just killing all the foot soldiers isn't going to get you to bin Laden or Zawahiri. Nor are they part of the main structure that puts out their ultra-radicalized version of Islam. As such, they should get their rights read to them because keeping them alive can help untangle the cell structure of al-Qaeda. Our only hope to get to bin Laden and Zawahiri is by figuring out who is connected to whom and who are the links to the big guys on the top.
To everyone who thinks Obama is being an irrational "softy" on so-called terrorists need to do their research first. Terrorism a la bin Laden isn't just an irrational ideology--it has concrete goals and strategies like our own government.
The War on Terrorism is so flawed because nobody can see that its a war on an ideology. You can't fight an ideology by killing people senselessly. Its comparable to fighting communism by killing Soviets--it just won't work.

Posted by: Abigail | September 9, 2008 9:00 PM | Report abuse

the scarriest thing to me about obama's camp atm is they are still working the comparisons to former president john f kennedy. we are talking about a man who in his first few days in office was embroiled in some of teh biggest disapointments in american history including the bay of pigs.

while north korea stops dismantling its nuclear capabilities and begins working again at thier base of operations in preparation for the new presidential election, do you think that the institution of another "green" (and i dont mean economically) president is gonna make them back down?

democrats chanced it once placing a blue blood in the whitehouse at the most tumultuous time in history, and they want to go through it again with a more radical government at the reigns of the nuke this time?

boy you's just full o dem der wise choices.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Steve1

Blame the Congress. Grampa gave you a place to shoot your mouth off.

Posted by: Clinging to my religion | September 9, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

sorry but the government is not the only institution that adds "taxes" to their items.

the increase in gasoline prices over the last 7 years should prove this. businesses that are taxed consistently use it as a business model to increase their prices which is essentially more of a tax on people than traditional government taxes.

no, mccains plan does not provide that people will not be taxed by companies, however it will NOT give them a reason to RAISE prices across the nation.

the question is which do you support, 12 dollars now but increasing cost of living? or maintained prices for the next 4 years?

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 8:22 PM | Report abuse

Yahweh made this country great and continues to bless it.

America's constitution is the greatest document ever written by man. We must appoint judges with a conscience and an appreciation for this great country's heritage.

Legislating from the bench is the problem.

Posted by: Clinging to my religion | September 9, 2008 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Let this clown Obama talk. he can't get out of his own way. I'll bet his handlers are waving their arms like helicopters when he ad libs.

I'm going to change my name to "Cling to my religion".

Can you imagine this out of touch clown Obama thought that would play in America?

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 8:11 PM | Report abuse

A review of Obama's tax plan shows he'll REDUCE TAXES by this much:
$161 to $227 thousand per year: will go DOWN by $2,789
$112 to $161 thousand per year: will go DOWN by $2,204
$66 to $112 thousand per year: will go DOWN by $1,290
$38 to $66 thousand per year: will go DOWN by $1,042
$19 to $38 thousand per year: will go DOWN by $892
Under $19 thousand per year: will go DOWN by $567
Granted, taxes on a AFTER "write offs" income of $227 thousand per year the taxes do go up a whooping $12 until you make $603 thousand per year. So much for the (Mc)SAME/PAIN "tax" LIES!!!
(Mc)SAME policies will guarantee (Mc)SAME results...:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOhyIZ3FDfo

Posted by: burkin.afaso | September 9, 2008 8:09 PM | Report abuse

jim!!! :D

ya, i heard after teh corruption with georgia there was a liberal movement to take the arguement to the UN.

where russia sits with veto powers.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 8:04 PM | Report abuse

dale

They've brought in reinforcement form the really, really, really left.

Posted by: JimH in Colroado | September 9, 2008 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Wow, the libs have lost the argument so they turn this blog into utter nonsense. We must have abortions at all costs. Protect the rights of terrorist, their complaints are legit and the real enemy is GWB. Obama will pay for his 1 billion dollars with the rich people's money.

You people are being played! We deserve this guy if we have sunk to this level. Good bye America, Hello UN and foreign soldiers in your neighborhood next year.

Posted by: JimH in Colroado | September 9, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

"140% is a made up number. Sounds right though doesn't it."

Actually, 140% isn't a number. 140 is a number. Something can be 140% greater than something else. You can take out 140% more than you put in...assuming someone else is putting in.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 7:57 PM | Report abuse

liz,

you are the most mindwashed liberal ive ever met.

understand that the government was made because 2 people owned property and a bigger stronger man came along and took thier property, so they realized if they band together and create a society, with rules and regulations, no stealing from eachother, support the unity when the other needs help etc.

the government was not made to uphold ideals, thats what an individual is for, the american ideology is not being teh world police as you so eloquently assume, but instead to allow ALL beleifs to exist, and co-exist, from those of the baby eaters all the way to the baby lovers.

face it, government was created for the sheer purpose of safety, it was created under republican principles and values for the expansion of security for all.

anarchy existed before government, and in it, was given teh "right" to do whatever a person pleased, that is a democratic and liberal agenda. one who is brainwashed by common concepts and elitist ease of life never has to face that at one time there was NO government, and no one to fight for it.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 7:51 PM | Report abuse

140% is a made up number. Sounds right though doesn't it.

Funny thing about the net, nothing requires a fact check and people are too stupid to care.

"THAT'S NOT CHANGE!! THAT'S MORE OF THE SAME!"

Says the man that destroyed Net Neutrality and lives in the pockets of the telecoms that are stealing your babies!

Posted by: Steve1 | September 9, 2008 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Old people need straws.

Hey wait! Isn't that what old people are doing to the young now? Sucking our futures away...taking out 140% more from SS than they put in!

Thanks for the crappy education, the dried up job market, and leaving me with the tab Gramps!

Posted by: Steve1 | September 9, 2008 7:46 PM | Report abuse

Oh come on, John McCain doesn't eat babies. However, if Obama runs them through a wood chipper first...he just might.

Yum

Posted by: Bill The Baker | September 9, 2008 7:43 PM | Report abuse

I am not an Obama supporter (nor do I support McCain), and that is primarily because I see little differences between the two candidates or their parties. I find it amusing that Obama would talk about Palin making light of the Constitution considering the fact that his policies are in stark contrast to Article I Section 8. In fact, the vast majority of politicians in the federal government routinely ignore the Constitution. But I suppose it's only fashionable to pay lip service to certain parts of the Bill of Rights rather than actually upholding their oaths to office.

Posted by: Adjutor | September 9, 2008 7:41 PM | Report abuse

Anyone claiming a JD is equivalent to an MD clearly hasn't set foot in a law school or a medical school. The amount of work required to retain the latter by leaps and bounds exceeds the former. What's further annoying is that this same poster attempts to distance a JD from an MBA. Yes, a JD is a 3-year degree and an MBA a 2-year degree. But thing is, an MD is a 4-year degree. And you can just jump straight from college into a good JD program. You need to have proven yourself for several years in the working world before you can apply to a good MBA program and be accepted.

All this matters little: that someone graduated with X-degree really doesn't mean squat to me. Show me what they've done with the rest of their lives. A degree, afterall, is only the very initial preparation towards a career.

I guess I'm more impressed by an MBA or a degree in economics because most politicians seem wholly clueless on the matter, especially when they start talking about hogwash like "the richest 1%" without mentioning small businesses and their taxation.

Posted by: CharlestonSon | September 9, 2008 7:40 PM | Report abuse

What I meant to say was "These cracker a$$ white people! You can't count on the white man to do right by you! They wanna kill your babies! These crackers want your baby on a cracker!"

"JOHN MCCAIN WANTS TO EAT YOUR BABY!"

Really though, here is what Obama actually said during the speech about children, the Constitution, and McCain's approach to legal rights for our children's future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

Posted by: Barrack_Obama | September 9, 2008 7:40 PM | Report abuse

You know it! He'll be smiling away, pitching babies into the thing like he was playing hoops!

The election is over. The only way McCain will win is if the Dems don't show up at the polls. Which, may infact happen.

"NEED MORE BABIES!"

Posted by: Steve1 | September 9, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Oh come on folks. Don't be naive. Ever since Hoover created the FBI, individual rights have been eroded. Let's look at the big picture. Keeping us safe from some terrorist and allowing the Feds to listen in on my pizza order on the phone is an easy call for me. Besides...what secrets do you need to keep from the Federal government on the phone? If you're clean you have nothing to worry about then we should allow for some leeway for the sake of the common good. Of course only if it's in that spirit. Let's not talk about precedents until they happen and IF there are abuses then go through the proper channels to seek recourse.

Posted by: Doug | September 9, 2008 7:33 PM | Report abuse

I find it more than amusing to read the comments on here, usually by Democrats. McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time? News to me: Bush hasn't cast one vote in Washington, DC. Not a single one. But there's civics for you.

I fail to see how Habeas corpus should at all be applied to foreign combatants, who are not protected under the US Constitution. A very basic reading of the Constitution shows at much. Exactly why this protection should be extended to them is a question only a liberal can answer.

As for Obama and his typically flippant comments about, "These people...," it's just another tired expression of a man's own distorted and misplaced arrogance. No doubt, after the man sat through 20-years of hate speech at his "church" and expected us all to believe he just wasn't paying attention. Why separate yourself now, Obama? Oh, that's right. It's always been all about you and movin' on up. *rolls eyes* A shallower politician our nation hasn't seen in some decades.

Posted by: CMartel2 | September 9, 2008 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Most excellent. When will they put up that video? Babies in a wood chipper.

Posted by: Bill The Baker | September 9, 2008 7:30 PM | Report abuse

My god. The man is a moron (and I do not mean to insult morons.)
How after this last week anyone who has half a brain could support Barry is beyond comprehension.
Oh wait answered my own question .....

Posted by: Cindy | September 9, 2008 7:29 PM | Report abuse

I don't get what all the discussion is about. Obama could feed babies feet first into wood chippers between now and election day and he's still going to win.
Bush has taken the disgust for the Republican party to new heights from which it will take decades to recover.

In the meantime, the Consitution was written by a bunch of slave beating elitist who wanted to ensure life, liberty, and property for themselves and people of equal stature.

Posted by: Steve1 | September 9, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Hey Liz,

Did you miss the video where the american had his head cut off.

At least we don't video tape it and show it off on youtube.


Posted by: Bill The Baker | September 9, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

If you want to live in a country where you can't speak out for either side without worrying about being arrested, then keep mocking Obama's defense of our constitution. If you want our soldiers, who are defending our right to have this debate, to face capture and torture without any protection then keep mocking Obama's defense of our constitution. Protecting everyone's right to not be arrested and held without trial or lawyer is not just meant for Americans - it is meant for everyone. If we say that the prisoner's at Guantanamo have no rights what is to stop someone in Iraq, Iran, or any other country from doing the same thing to our citizens and most importantly to our soldiers. If these people are truly guilty, which they may very well be, then lets prove it in the broad daylight. Holding them for years without any kind of hearing or even basic communication with lawyers tells the world that we have something to hide.

These basic protections are what America is about. That we are even having a debate about these most basic rights in the 21st century says that this country is going in the wrong direction. We are being governed by fear rather than the ideals that this country was founded on. The values that make us Americans say that we will stand up for those rights even if it means that we aren't 100% safe 100% of the time.

Posted by: Liz | September 9, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, that's right. Palin wants to undermine the Constitution. She also wants to eat your children.

Hyperbole, it's what's for dinner.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 7:15 PM | Report abuse

The point of Obama's comment is that Palin is scoffing at the Constitution. The Bush admin has been undermining the Constitution for a long time, and it should be considered a very serious matter. It will start with people outside of the US, but it will move inward to US citizens, who can be held indefinitely.

Sarah's scoff continues the attitude of Bush. I don't believe that Republicans want to see the Constitution undermined either. But, apparently, Palin and McCain do, since her speech is scripted.

The only thing we have to do to undermine the Constitution is to stop paying attention to it.

We need to take this very seriously.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 7:12 PM | Report abuse

Maybe YOU should should run for president, I'll vote for you.

Friends,
Leo Pierson
www.NoMoreFuelCosts.info

Posted by: dewey44 | September 9, 2008 7:12 PM | Report abuse

"i dont think it is wise for the republicans to restart a class war."

Yeah, that's the democrats job.

Posted by: Bill The Baker | September 9, 2008 7:11 PM | Report abuse

We can get into semantics if you want but you know very well what I mean when "slimy" is used to describe some lawyers. Bad and slimy are cousins but NOT on the same level in terms of evil intent.
For example: Defending a murderer such as O.J. (at least in the public conscience he is) and winning is SLIMY.
Destroying or preventing critical evidence from the defense and sending an innocent man to jail is BAD.

Posted by: Doug | September 9, 2008 7:00 PM | Report abuse

I know EXACTLY what I mean when I say "SLIMY" hahahaha. No apologies.

Posted by: Doug | September 9, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Here is a quote from Newsweek about Obama's "lobbyist" connections:

"When Illinois utility Commonwealth Edison wanted state lawmakers to back a hefty rate hike two years ago, it took a creative lobbying approach, concocting a new outfit that seemed devoted to the public interest: Consumers Organized for Reliable Electricity, or CORE. CORE ran TV ads warning of a "California-style energy crisis" if the rate increase wasn't approved—but without disclosing the commercials were funded by Commonwealth Edison. The ad campaign provoked a brief uproar when its ties to the utility, which is owned by Exelon Corp., became known. "It's corporate money trying to hoodwink the public," the state's Democratic Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn said. What got scant notice then—but may soon get more scrutiny—is that CORE was the brainchild of ASK Public Strategies, a consulting firm whose senior partner is David Axelrod, now chief strategist for Barack Obama."

I say McCain's clean. You say Obama's clean. Who's right? Seems it's the nature of the business. Both are politicians. You vote for who you want and I'll do the same. But I base my decisions finally on character. Character determines a person's behavior and from what I see (from the plethora of disseminated misinformation) out there I can associate with the old guy like McCain rather than a smooth talking liberal who'll make this country more socialist than I prefer. Time is always the best test of character.
Who has made the hard decisions as a youth, as an adult as a politician? Compare yourself. Choose drugs or just say no. Fight for your clients or fight for your country. Make decisions even when you know it won't be the popular thing to do and or just consider yourself "present." Take a stand or duck and weave because you consider yourself NOT in the same pay-grade to answer the question.
Be realistic. Both parties have the same goals but just a different approach to attaining them.

Posted by: Doug | September 9, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Foxborough, you echo my sentiments. The people whose anger leads them to create and amplify annoying, ridiculous comments also vote. Wouldn't it be wonderful if they didn't?

Posted by: babwhipples | September 9, 2008 6:45 PM | Report abuse

the biggest irony to me, is how obama can make fun of small town america, call it corrupt in its politics.

WHEN HE COMES FROM CHICAGO..................................................................................................................................................and you buy it?

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Palin is a talking parrot who speaks the words given to her to by her owner. The only problem with her is that she has slightly more brains than a parrot, so is very dangerous. I cannot imagine that anyone with intelligence would vote for McCain with her a "heartbeat away from the presidency". As Barack Obama said,"the American people are not that stupid to believe the lies that come from the Republican Party. What a disappointment the GOP has become. Abraham Lincoln would be deeply ashamed of it.

Posted by: rose | September 9, 2008 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Having said so much about Obama, I do not think he should win. US needs at least 4 more years of reps so that each taxpayer coughs $5000 more for Iraq. In a democracy people are responsible for their decisions. Its bad if a bad decision does not carry punishment.

Posted by: Patrick | September 9, 2008 6:40 PM | Report abuse

theoriginalMissZ,

"In the terrorists country we would have the right to be shot in the head immediately, with out having the right to a lawyer."

Yes, I know it's terrible that we're not more like those terrorist countries because they truly provide a model for how we should act.

Posted by: diazan1 | September 9, 2008 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Jim Carter is/was not a rep

Posted by: Patrick | September 9, 2008 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Doug,

"I never said lawyers were bad? My relative is a lawyer too. I just said they were slimy."

OK, at first I thought you were just uninformed about McCain's record. Now it's becoming clear that you also don't know much about connotation. "Slimy" is a word with negative connotations. When you call someone slimy, you're not actually complimenting them. This is really basic stuff, but I'm happy to review it with you.

And again, "these people" refers to you GOP pals that have been running the country and ruining it for the past 10 years. Thanks for playing :-)

Posted by: diazan1 | September 9, 2008 6:29 PM | Report abuse

i dont think it is wise for the republicans to restart a class war.

Posted by: PaulNY | September 9, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

The designation JD or Juris Doctor, is most certainly NOT equivalent to an MD. Nor is it equivalent to a PHD. When you are referring to JD as equivalent to an MD, you are referring to a document from 1907 discussing standards for being admitted to the Bar. During this time, the requirements to be an MD were far lower than they are today.

Jimmy Carter is a PHD.

Posted by: http409 | September 9, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

Lets revisit some Bushisms(I am going to miss the best American comedian):

Who could have envisioned an erection, election at this point in Iraq's history.

I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport.


I am surprised I won. I ran against peace, prosperity and incumbency.


The war on terror involves Saddam Hussein because of the nature of Saddam Hussein, the history of Saddam Hussein, and his willingness to terrorize himself

Natural gas is hemi-spherical.

We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease.

Posted by: Tracy | September 9, 2008 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Obama can't even get pick up in Mohammads taxi, but he will give rights to non - USA citizens. The Constitution is for the USA, not extending outside the borders of the country. As a professor of Consitutional Law he should know that. In the terrorists country we would have the right to be shot in the head immediately, with out having the right to a lawyer.

Obama is a lawyer and talks out both sides of his mouth. The people of the USA elected GW Bush for a second term because he would not side with the terrorists. You cannot talk nicely and negotiate with people who say one thing and do the other, or keep half of its citizens in slavery because of gender.

Posted by: theoriginalMissZ | September 9, 2008 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Patrick:

I wasn't referring to you. Some other post way down the list had said Obama and Biden both had PhDs and were better qualified for office. My response was to him/her??

Posted by: Doug | September 9, 2008 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Laden says: We will fight West, God willing.

Palin says: Iraq's war is God's will

Bush says: God asked me to invade Iraq.

As long as muslims and xians keep each other busy we are safe.

Posted by: Cramer | September 9, 2008 6:21 PM | Report abuse

I never said lawyers were bad? My relative is a lawyer too. I just said they were slimy. I said Obama was slimy AND corrupt. Sure that's a generalization but it's valid remark especially Obama does the same when condescendingly remarks, "These people" to refer to all GOP supporters of McCain.
Your uncle may be one of the few exceptions and that's good to hear but I think I can pick 6 out of 10 people who'll agree with me otherwise about lawyers' reputations.

Posted by: Doug | September 9, 2008 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Doug,

"I implied Obama could be slimy because of his past connections (in Chicago) and profession. I don't see that from Johnny boy."

Um, can we say Keating five?

"He doesn't associate himself with the special interests, lobbyists,etc."

Now I just know you're simply not informed. Let me school you on the facts: SEVEN of the people running John McCain's campaign are LOBBYISTS. Rick Davis, Johnny Boy's campaign manager, lobbied Congress for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. You know, the two mortgage giants we, the people, just had to bail out. So whatever kind of independence you think he has, you've certainly not made the case so far.

Good luck on that.

Oh, and the cheap shots on lawyers, it's getting tiresome. Try another venue.

Posted by: diazan1 | September 9, 2008 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Doung,

I did not say he has PhD. I said he has JD which is considered eq to M.D. An M.D is called a doctor.

If there is any argument a JD is between masters and PhD. I wonder which last rep pres had an education higher than masters

Posted by: Patrick | September 9, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Doug, do you have any idea about what you wrote? Mccain's his own man? He is the one surrounded by lobbyists, like randy schueneman who recently got $800K from Georgia, which didn't help it any against Russia. Mccain is beholden to big oil, as witnessed by his sudden change of heart about off-shore drilling. He was against it until a few months ago and the oil money came in. Obama never challenged mccain to use public funding-he said he would consider it if the republican nominee, unknown at the time, would do so. Unlike mccain, who manipulated public funding so he could survive the primaries, using it a collateral against a loan.
Saying Mccain is a flip-flopper is too nice. He has changed his positions like the wind. He uses his false maverick label to look good, but just keeps sucking up to bush and the hard right. Try to know what you are writing about before you make yourself look foolish.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Here is the Keating Five summary from Slate.com. You be the judge. I accept Johnny's explanation but can you?:

"McCain defended his attendance at the meetings by saying Keating was a constituent and that Keating's development company, American Continental Corporation, was a major Arizona employer. McCain said he wanted to know only whether Keating was being treated fairly and that he had not tried to influence the regulators. At the second meeting, McCain told the regulators, "I wouldn't want any special favors for them," and "I don't want any part of our conversation to be improper."

But Keating was more than a constituent to McCain--he was a longtime friend and associate. McCain met Keating in 1981 at a Navy League dinner in Arizona where McCain was the speaker. Keating was a former naval aviator himself, and the two men became friends. Keating raised money for McCain's two congressional campaigns in 1982 and 1984, and for McCain's 1986 Senate bid. By 1987, McCain campaigns had received $112,000 from Keating, his relatives, and his employees--the most received by any of the Keating Five. (Keating raised a total of $300,000 for the five senators.)

After McCain's election to the House in 1982, he and his family made at least nine trips at Keating's expense, three of which were to Keating's Bahamas retreat. McCain did not disclose the trips (as he was required to under House rules) until the scandal broke in 1989. At that point, he paid Keating $13,433 for the flights.

And in April 1986, one year before the meeting with the regulators, McCain's wife, Cindy, and her father invested $359,100 in a Keating strip mall.

The Senate Ethics Committee probe of the Keating Five began in November 1990, and committee Special Counsel Robert Bennett recommended that McCain and Glenn be dropped from the investigation. They were not. McCain believes Democrats on the committee blocked Bennett's recommendation because he was the lone Keating Five Republican.

In February 1991, the Senate Ethics Committee found McCain and Glenn to be the least blameworthy of the five senators. (McCain and Glenn attended the meetings but did nothing else to influence the regulators.) McCain was guilty of nothing more than "poor judgment," the committee said, and declared his actions were not "improper nor attended with gross negligence." McCain considered the committee's judgment to be "full exoneration," and he contributed $112,000 (the amount raised for him by Keating) to the U.S. Treasury.

So I guess Obama is "exonerated" by the Rezko trials too huh?

Posted by: Doug | September 9, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

It's painful obvious after reading these comments that most of the people voting against Obama are, in fact, NOT informed. Instead, you continue to copy and paste all the crap your racist uncle keeps forwarding to you in email.

This lack of information is also painfully obvious by reading all the various uses of "maverick" to describe McCain. Was he being a maverick when he voted with Bush on allowing the CIA to torture and protect the Bush administration from punishment?

Furthermore, many of you have watched the current administration shred the Constitution and you have to vacant candidates that support these actions. But yet, when Obama defends the very document our government and way of life was founded on, you pathetic mouth breathers attack him instead of the party that's using the Constitution like toilet paper.

Truly, truly amazing.

Have fun dancing to your Palin/McCain pied-piper tune because it's obviously worked on the simpletons among us.

Posted by: Chris | September 9, 2008 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Doug, you have to be one of the most ignorant posters I've ever read. You spent more than a paragraph insulting lawyers like they're all bad. Here's a question: how would you run arrange the government without lawyers? They're necessary, and they do a great thing. My father is a public criminal defense attorney, and I know no one more honest or upstanding on the planet. You, and people like you, sicken me.

Posted by: Ben | September 9, 2008 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Why would a fiscal vote for a govt that started a war in Iraq without any basis(no WDM found yet) and spend about a trillion for building a country which many americans can not even locate on the map. Can a govt be more wasteful of taxpayers money? Atleast the libs keep it in the US.

Posted by: Patrick | September 9, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

J.D. Give me a break. Harvard awarded title ONLY in from Harvard unrecognized as a standard in other countries that DOES NOT require a thesis or dissertation. That's admirable but sorry let's compare apples to apples. JD is NOT a PhD.

Quote from your OWN link to Wiki, "...Like other professional doctorates in the United States (M.D., D.O., D.D.S., D.P.T., D.P.M., D.C., etc.), a research dissertation or thesis is NOT traditionally a part of the J.D.).
Sounds like a degree that can be attained by attending a few classes through an open learning environment. PhD is a much higher standard. You can consider the analogy much like a local magazine food review as opposed to the internationally renowned Michelin guide.

Posted by: Doug | September 9, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse

Doug,

You are wrong. Keating!! McCain was apparently against ethics in government before he was for it.

Posted by: Jay | September 9, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Hey, Doug - 3 words for you: THE KEATING FIVE.

Google it, then get back to me about what a "straight shooter" old man McCain is!

Posted by: rob | September 9, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Doug,

You are wrong. Keating!! McCain was apparently against ethics in government before he was for it.

Posted by: Jay | September 9, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Doug,

You are wrong. Keating!! McCain was apparently against ethics in government before he was for it.

Posted by: Jay | September 9, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

I implied Obama could be slimy because of his past connections (in Chicago) and profession. I don't see that from Johnny boy. That's what I mean that he's his own man. He doesn't associate himself with the special interests, lobbyists,etc. He's a maverick- an underdog with principles. Obama is two-faced and he is only worried about saving his own skin. But I expect that from a lawyer. Look at his record for voting in the Senate. Look at his decision to reject public funding AFTER he knew that he got a horde. I remember him challenging McCain to use ONLY federal funding should they be the final candidates. Now McCain has accepted his proposal to stick with the cap of 85million in government campaign funding but what does Obama do? He rejects it and takes public funding. He goes for the money. Smart call or just a politician at heart (Rev. Wright-his OWN pastor-remarked that about him. He should know him best, no?). Oh that's right, I forgot--he's a lawyer by profession. That figures.

Posted by: Doug | September 9, 2008 5:56 PM | Report abuse

The following is quoted from a national magazine:
"The invention of the weblog has encouraged a kind of person with whom everyone who tries to talk seriously about important matters has to deal. He is called a "troll" and spends his time trying to provide argument. He is not trying to win so much as simply cause trouble and upset others. He seems to enjoy chaos and anger for their own sake. Some of them jump into conversations with what Orwell called the "silly-clever" argument and are visibly pleased with themselves, but most seem to throw in the provacative question, particularly the provocative question that is clearly going to set people against each other, and then back out of the conversation, coming back in only to push the dissension further. It's the faux-innocent, insinuating, serpentine "Hath God said?" rhetorical mode that gives them away.
The troll is a narcissist energized by an aggressive uninterest in truth, often demonstrated with rhetorical sophistication and knowledge of the psychology of his human playthings. He is always provactive, but fairly harmless when ignored."

Unfortunately they are not "harmless" - they vote.

Posted by: FOXBOROUGH | September 9, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Of all the suspected terrorists at Gitmo, that we held for all those years, the only one we have so far convicted was Osama's driver. Osama's driver!!! And we already know we swept up plenty of innocents in the dragnet. And tortured people. All in the name of the War on Terror. Bushies' war is not on terror, it's a war against our own values, in the name of security. Wow. Just wow. Can't we just get competent government? Why has that become such a rare commodity?

Posted by: Jay Sheen | September 9, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Obama has Juris Doctor(J.D.) which is equivalent to M.D. A person with M.D. is called a doctor. A person with J.D. is also called a doctor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor

Posted by: Patrick | September 9, 2008 5:52 PM | Report abuse

The GOP thinks the free market should handle our rights. We shouldn't have rights according to John McCain and his Grand Ole Party... John McKKKain

Posted by: Charles | September 9, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Obama is my hero. In this day and age, when civil liberties are being stripped daily, and Obama taught Constitutional law for 10 years? He's got my vote!! Put him in the White House NOW!

Posted by: FreeMan | September 9, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Chredon

Actually, habeas corpus IS in the body of the Constitution. It was one of the protections included by the founders in the original body of the document.

Posted by: mjs | September 9, 2008 5:46 PM | Report abuse

So what! McCain served in the military, as did my grandfather, my father, my brother and now my nephews! And yes, they all served during war-time...but that does not mean either of them can be President just because they served in the military! Palin said she is a "Hockey Mom" but did any GOP moron ever stop to think when she last filled that role? Huh, dirt bags!!! No you haven't because if you did you would know that her son who by the way is 19 years old is in the military and was the only one that played hockey!!! Hello, that means her "hockey mom" days were over more than a year ago...how about telling us something you've done lately for your children. We know she hasn't sat down and talked to them about birth control, abstince or just saying no! Because if she did than her 17 year old daughter wouldn't be pregnant out of wed-lock today! The Palin family has no morals or values, so what can they pass to the American people...those people can't pass along anything, but ignorance/disgrace/dishonor. Further, Palin is a radical far right-wing idiot who has used tax-payers money to benefit her family.

These People...

Posted by: AlisaJean | September 9, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Addendum: Palin is counting on the fact that most people won't make the connection, or will be so enthralled by the cleverness of the insult that they will not look beyond it to see the Constitutional protection for which she is actually showing disdain. She is betting on her listeners being either too stupid to understand, or too enraptured to care. And I'd say she's pretty safe with that bet.

Posted by: Chredon | September 9, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Doug,

The corruption and sliminess came from the GOP, of which McCain is a part. He voted 90% of the time with Bush. How exactly is he his own man? Maybe in 2000 your argument might have some weight, but today he lock step with this administration. Democrats have been in power for 2 years in Congress with the smallest majority possible. How is that they are responsible for this mess? Recall if you would the numerous corruption scandals that have come out of the GOP.

Oh, and by the way, the DEMS also stand for millions of people who didn't run the country and are not slimy and corrupt.

Posted by: Nuffsaid | September 9, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

It would be so nice to have an intelligent prez.

It would be so nice to have a prez who defends the Constitution.

Maybe I could quit worrying so much.

Posted by: barb | September 9, 2008 5:37 PM | Report abuse

gg: Obama is correct to say that Palin is mocking the Constitution. While the Miranda rights are not in the Constitution, what Palin was mocking was Obama's support of the recent Supreme Court ruling that the Administration cannot deny Gitmo detainees the right of Habeus Corpus, which IS a Constitutional right. (It's in the Bill of Rights.) So when she uses Miranda to mock Obama's support of Constitutional rights, then she is indeed mocking the Constitution.

Posted by: Chredon | September 9, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Can you just imagine "Hockey Mom" talking to a foreign head of state? Just for grins, imagine the conversation between Palin and Putin. All of her quips and funny remarks aren't going to count for any thing!

Posted by: Just Someone | September 9, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Let's get specific. It was the moron Bush that didn't do his job and protect Americans. GOP stands for millions of people. Millions of people didn't run the White House for the last 8 years. The Chimp Bush did.
McCain is his own man. He may agree on some things with Dumbya but he also agrees with a lot of Democrats. He's pragmatic. I like that in a leader.
One thing EVERYONE agrees on is that Bush is the biggest embarrassment in the history of the presidency. If Obama gets elected -- we're headed for another 4 years of corruption and sliminess. Once a lawyer-ALWAYS a lawyer.

Posted by: Doug | September 9, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

To all the people arguing that the preamble has no weight, WE AGREE. You too must agree then that Barack was incorrect in saying that Palin was mocking the constitution, because what she was talking about does not fall under the constitution. He referenced the constitution because either he doesn't know what he is talking about, or he was trying to damage Palin more by fooling American's into thinking she hates the constitution.

Posted by: gg | September 9, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

That is funny, Obama is an illuminati choice as well. You think just because you like him that he is free from the reigns of the NWO? He is the NWO pick, more so than the puppet McCain. Obama is a NWO scumbag, if he wasn't, then the media would crucify him and we would all be tought to hate him :)

Posted by: Nathan | September 9, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Finally, someone who is a Libertarian speaks up...and he turns out to be a total whack job.

Great.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Palin: Shoots from the hip, gives gut reaction. It plays well to the crowd.

Obama: Has a background in Law, that thing that's there to protect the members of the crowd.

Sometimes the crowd forgets it's the Palin's of the world wanting to string them up for cattle rustling, where a trial would find they were rounding up and returning stray cattle when collared, thus avoiding all the staring at shoes and pretending one wasn't part of the lynch mob with it all goes awry.

Posted by: Richard J | September 9, 2008 5:21 PM | Report abuse

To fishboy1975,
You are the SOB, it hurts you to hear the truth about Sarah Palin. She is just another REPUBLICAIN. That's a fact. She is no GOOD like McCAIN

Posted by: David, from OMAHA, NE | September 9, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Well now its the Illumanti vs. the People

Barak will be a force to be reckoned with whether or not he wins, but he is going to win. No election fixin this time around. This is our country and we'll take it back one way or another

Posted by: Yes we can | September 9, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Hey..you all know the election is fixed for McCain. It's what the Illuminati wants. More Bush...The New World Order. The North American Union. Open borders between Canada, USA and Mexico, the dumbing of the US. McCain is their man.

And the reason Hillary isn't Obama'a choice for veep is that she'd have Obama killed so she could be president.

If you want the Constitution back..vote for Libertarian BoB Barr...unfortunatly Ron Paul bowed out of the Republication race. The Republicans would not let him speak at the RNC they are so afraid of his ideas of freedom and liberty. Ron Paul's views never change. No flip-flopping. The Illuminati wants to control the world and it's finances. Google it.
Some things are so obvious.

Posted by: Debra | September 9, 2008 5:15 PM | Report abuse

I think Palin is a little slow.

P.S. Have fun with your Cliff Notes on the Constitution and US Government.

Posted by: Tee hee hee | September 9, 2008 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Doug,

These people would be the GOP leaders that have done little to actually fight the terrorists, instead of creating more. It would be the GOP that brings you more hate in 08. Yeah, so cry me a river and then jump in it.

Posted by: Nuffsaid | September 9, 2008 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Palin and McCain for the CHINO Ticket 08!!

CHINO! CHINO! CHINO!

http://fishboy1975@gmail.com

Posted by: fishboy1975 | September 9, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Obama is such an arrogant SOB that just the sight of him or the sound of his voice gets me all riled up.

These people?? He's an elitist. He thinks he knows what's best for the country? He's just an ambitious lawyer who will say whatever he needs to to get into office. No different from a used car salesperson.

These arrogant SOBs.

Posted by: Doug | September 9, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

For all you constitutional experts, maybe you should check out Wikipedia:
"The Preamble does not assign any powers to the federal government[2] or provide specific limitations on government action. Due to the Preamble's limited nature, it has almost certainly never been relied upon by any court as the decisive factor in deciding a case,[3] except in apparently frivolous circumstances"

The preamble has no given power. It is simply a statement of intention. We have a series of laws that govern the prosecution and detention of those accused of a crime. Once we begin to disregard these laws, for whatever reason, we start on a slippery slope that will lead to the erosion of all these laws. Further we lose any and all moral superiority we may have had in other countries. Under the arguments of the Bush administration, and some of you pinheads, the Iraqi government has full reason and justification to hold our soldiers accused to murdering Iraqi civilians indefinitely, without trial, the right to review the evidence, or a speedy trial.
Like any bully in the schoolyard some of you think we are above the law. Well, at least Obama understands that no one, not even the US of A, is above the law.

Posted by: to all you constitutional experts | September 9, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

To jwtheball

Maybe people with high school degrees should run the country. Most executive position require a degree not experience, but not the presidency. Whatever.

Let simplify what a president does: Lets just say pass or veto laws in essence alone Obama/Biden are light years ahead. While you don't need a law degree to earn my respect. Understanding the fundamentals of government certainly helps, which is obviously something Palin is not clear on.
Kill em all may apply to moose in Alaska, but not people in my regard.

Posted by: Hello | September 9, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Obama and Biden have PhD's ??? What the f**k are you talking about?
If they have PhD's then pigs can fly.

Give real facts otherwise you are a disservice to your party.

These morons.

Posted by: Doug | September 9, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Code Obama, Greater Than Napoleon :

" if you got a terrorist, take him out."

" Captured suspects deserve to file writs of habeas corpus."

So Oly Bi- di, a shy guy, but not a terrorist if captured, after having
read the above Obama statements,was conflictd but believed he would be
taken out literally - like to a nice nice restaurant. When apprehended
at the side of a highway, tying his fuse, he proclaimed that he was not a
terrorist and deserved to be taken out, The local JAG had to concede that
Oly had a point, and classified him as a suspect. In one of his writs of
habeas corpus, Oly stated that he has yet to be taken out. The case was
referred to Judge Obama for execution.

I know it's silly, but for a 20-year law prof, it's tough to get across a
point.


Posted by: 3rd-Party Advocate | September 9, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Palin's comments are no different that what we would expect from George Bush.

Indeed, Sarah Palin is George Bush:

http://sarahpalinisgeorgebush.blogspot.com/

Posted by: bob arnold | September 9, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Patriot, by saying the Constitution has no borders and that it grants the government power, does that mean since the Constitution in Article I, Section 8 gives Congress the power to "lay and collect taxes, duties, imports, and excises.", America can tax a person living in Canada's income. NO. Because the Constitution applies to the US. I am not making the argument that torture is correct. My only argument is that foreign terrorists are not protected by the Constitution. Hopefully, we as humans know what is right and wrong. I believe Barack was incorrect in citing to the Constitution on this one.

Posted by: Jay | September 9, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm beginning to see Obama's post-convention strategy now and I like it a lot. When Palin mocked the Constitution of the United States of America--the best document we've ever created, I cringed. It proved she would be pitiful with foreign policy--worse: a puppet. She mixed this up with Miranda rights. This is why even the Republicans say Palin was a bad choice. We don't have time to catch her up since she can't even understand U.S. law. Bush II caused so many problems for this country for THIS VERY REASON--a failure to understand the Constitution he swore to uphold! Worse, it's going to take time for someone to explain to her that Obama isn't even trying to insult her by complaining about her lack of knowledge and understanding of the laws she is supposed to uphold (not to mention her lack of the most basic common human decency). She wants to shoot first and never ask any questions (forget about asking them later). She'll keep the Supreme Court really busy when McCain dies due to stress-related illness.

Posted by: Linda | September 9, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

HELLO

If you want our country run by lawyers, you are really out of touch with reality. Lawyers and the wannabe lawyers in congress think the answer to everything is to create more laws so the lawyers can make more money. One of the things keeping our courts from giving "charged" criminals (not guilty until found guilty) their quick and just trials is that the courts are too tied up with all of the litigation that results from the multitude of laws generated by local, state, and federal legislatures. Given a choice of a lawyer or someone with common sense, I'll take the common sense every time.

Posted by: jwtheball | September 9, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

"Almost all laws are the result of legislating morality. Murder. Rape. Theft. Prostitution. All of those things are moral issues that are made into laws via legislation."

Wow, you are seriously out of touch. With the exception of prostitution all of those are rights issues not moral issues. If you murder me, you are interfering with my right to life. Rape? Moral issue. Get raped and then see if you think its a moral issue. And theft is definitely a personal property issue not a moral issue.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

so jay/jeff, by your logic if a french tourist gets arrested in dc, he can be denied the right to a speedy trial, consult counsel and he could potentially be subjected to slavery. is that what you are saying? if so, you guys are morons.

and jeff, how are we supposed to determine whether we have the right guy or the wrong guy unless we go through the legal process provided for in the constitution.

Posted by: Duh | September 9, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Republican4Obama,

Legislating morality never works? Almost all laws are the result of legislating morality. Murder. Rape. Theft. Prostitution. All of those things are moral issues that are made into laws via legislation.

Posted by: Jeff | September 9, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

"The Constitution begins with "We the people of the United States", not "We the people of the World." Constitutional rights are for citizens of the United States, not for enemy combatants,"

So then our government has no business in any other country, right? We have to let all foreigners go free?

Again - the Constitution gives power to the government. It doesn't grant rights. It has no mention of borders. The preamble is not the law.

Posted by: Patriot | September 9, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Jeff and Jay: You are intentionally missing the point. We as Americans constantly state that we have a strong belief in fundamental principles of right and wrong. If we believe, as Americans, that is it wrong to put someone in prison for an unlimited time, without explanation and without giving them a chance to explain themselves, then we should not do it, whether the captive is a citizen or not. What makes America an example to the rest of the world is that we hold ourselves to a higher standard. When Jefferson wrote that 'All men are created equal, endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, and among these are life, libery, and the pursuit of happiness," he didn't limit himself to American citizens. If we 'hold these truths to be self-evident,' then we have to hold them for ALL PEOPLE, not just for ourselves. To do otherwise makes us less than American.

If you are a committed Christian, like Jim R, then you should understand that the principles we live by cannot be limited in scope. Either we DO believe that it is wrong to jail a man without reason, or we don't. The only way to avoid the slippery slope of decay is to rise above it, not occasionally, not situationally, but ALWAYS.

Posted by: Chredon | September 9, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

I'm not an American, but have been listening to US election for some time from both parties. Have to say any one who understands the word "Economy" will choose Obama. And in this situation I think Economy is the most important issue, not wasting more money on Iraq.

Posted by: Cal | September 9, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Jay - "Last time I check, the United States Constitution was designed to protect those who legally abide in the United States."

Where does it say that? Check again. The constitution says what the government can and cannot do. Period. That applies to anywhere in the universe.

Posted by: Patriot | September 9, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

By these people I think he means:

John McCain+Sarah Palin=Bush's 3rd term.

People who don't respect the constitution and go around yelling, guns babies, and Jesus. Which is why so many countries hate us in the first place.

Posted by: Arnold | September 9, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

You know, when you a skilled person talking to stupid people chances are they will fellow the stupid one.People always deserve what happen to them.

Posted by: fay | September 9, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

What do you mean, 'these people'?

Posted by: Jay | September 9, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

The Constitution begins with "We the people of the United States", not "We the people of the World." Constitutional rights are for citizens of the United States, not for enemy combatants, even if they are the "wrong guy." If we do find out we have the "wrong guy," we should release him or her, but that still does not give him or her any Constitutional rights. Obama wants a "evolving constution" so he can manipulate and direct the change he wants, as opposed to following what the actual words say. People like that have no respect for the Constituiton. On that note, there is nothing in the Constitution about same-sex marriage and abortion, meaning those issues should be left up to the individual states to deciede for themselves via the democratic process. This country is suppose to be a democratic republic, something that both Republicans and Democrats have lost sight of.

Posted by: Jeff | September 9, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Terry,

If you look at what Obama is saying it actually a very intellectual argument made to appeal to the masses.

Instead of going around like McCain touting the surge, he actually pointing out what made the surge work, which once again is special operative targeting the leaders of individual terrorist cells. You can't just kill em all this isn't rural Alaska this is Washington. Personally I would rather have 2 lawyers running the country than someone who graduated the bottom of his class and a ba in journalism.

If you had to choose on this alone which would you pick? Please let bring some class and distinction to the highest office of the free world.

Posted by: Hello | September 9, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Chredon, my comment wasn't directed at any of the candidates. It was directed towards previous posters on this comment board who were making unfounded statements and attacks.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Last time I check, the United States Constitution was designed to protect those who legally abide in the United States. There is absolutely no reason to apply the Constitution to those captured outside the US. However, there are international treaties which governs in those situations. Maybe Barack does not understand the Constitution as well as he thinks if he wishes to extend these rights to foreign terrorists....p.s why does Mohammed have to be a taxi driver???

Posted by: jay | September 9, 2008 4:31 PM | Report abuse

I would vote for: More time to love the ones we love! More money to save! Less restrictions from the Goverment! More good music we can enjoy! A stronger military to project and defend America and the world. Our childrens futures! More colleges we can afford! More kindness! More work for all! More patience with others. More chances to help others! Less internal fighting! Less hate!Less death! More love for each other! More time to get to know our friends and enemies. So I could give more to those in need.

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Gee, you would think that Obama was just tossing out the same sort of school-yard taunts that Palin put in her Convention speech.

Whether you have the brains to figure it out or not, Obama IS talking about policy, not attacking Palin. He's talking about the suspension of Habeus Corpus and many of the other rights of citizens and prisoners that were denied by the Bush administration, and he's explaining why he is against taking away those rights. The right to know why you have been arrested, the right to know the charges against you, the right to have legal representation, the right to a speedy trial: these are not just the rights of a US citizen, these are the moral concepts upon which this nation was founded. If we deny them to anyone, even our enemies, then we become less than what we are - we diminish America and its ideals in the eyes of the entire world.

It's plan to see that this is exactly what George W. Bush has done to America - imprisoning people for five years without telling them why, torturing people who may or may not know anything, spying on his own citizens without legal authorization. All of these things tarnish the walls of the Shining City on the Hill that was supposed to be America.

And McCain has supported him every step of the way. How can you STAND to see America so maligned by its own leaders? How can you STAND to see this great nation sink into the cesspool of greed and power-grabbing? How can anyone who claims to love America STAND to see it constantly abandoning its own principles for political gain? Is power and a political victory so important to you that you are willing to destroy America in order to control it?

ENOUGH!

Obama-Biden '08

Posted by: Chredon | September 9, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I've been thinking it would be kind of nice to have someone who respects the Constitution in the White House. Sarah Palin's comments make me wonder whether she is even familiar with the existence of the Constitution, let alone its contents. For example, after being selected, she asked what a vice president does.

Posted by: DoTheMath | September 9, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

It's very easy to settle this.

Do you really want someone like Palin to step in should McBush croak during his tenure? Does she even have the experience (Yeah, like two years of "executive experience" is enough. What did she do before this?) or the intelligence (Does she even have a full education? Obama & Biden have PhD's.) to be able to facilitate her position?

Vice-President's have big responsibilities, but as a President do you really think she is ready? Answer that question for yourself, then make the right decision. Remember we are the ones responsible for how the rest of the world sees us. Our choice does have an affect on the rest of the world.

Posted by: Ron - Chicago | September 9, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Republican4Obama -- Thanks for the supportive words and I'm sorry for the grief it must give you to admit how your party has changed. I'm old enough to remember when it was very different -- when I'd watch both conventions and be proud that we had statesmen, on both sides. And there are still some Republicans I genuinely admire, but so few and so out of power or influence. I learned long ago that the best course is always to go for the more honorable person, the one with principles (which, yes, means I voted for some Republicans along the way). I thought that a contest between Obama and McCain would be a return to the old politics, two people of principle focusing on the issues. Instead ..... I'm not even a Republican and I could just weep with the travesty he has let himself become. It's very clear who (and her 'backers') would be the real power if they are elected. Anyway, you're very welcome to join the 'rowdy crew' this go 'round.

Posted by: Elizabeth | September 9, 2008 4:17 PM | Report abuse

I was at the town hall in Farmington Hills, and I was so glad to see Sen. Obama take this by the horns. The Obama campaign needs to speak in more loud and clear terms about the abuses to our constitution, civil rights, and reputation around the world - all in the name of "protecting" us. Terrorists operate on fear - when fear is used to make citizens cower and give up the very things that make us American and historically, admired around the world, they win.

Posted by: bethechange1 | September 9, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

See. Now you've ruined it for everyone.

OK guys, no more fun having arguments and fighting over stuff.

Back to work.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

What amazes me is all of the republicans fighting to not follow the constitution--something I am sure they don't really believe is a good idea--just so they can stay right wing.

At what point do you say to yourself, maybe I'm in the wrong guys corner.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

It is a simple decision that we make. If you want the same government that put us in this situation, financial, moral, military
stretched beyond our limits, cronyism in the lawful matters of
judicial honesty, business that favors only the wealthy and education based on religious values more than scholarly teachings and billions of dollars unaccounted for, then you want the Bush/Cheney administration to continue, and women as second class citizens with no say in their private lives then you vote for McCainand Palin. Just remember, veterans and their families are not supported by McCain..He did it with eight no votes for our Vets.
And he took millions so he could begin " shilling for the drilling" "

Posted by: Levittown | September 9, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

If you have teenage sons or daughters, and you want them to go to another unnecessary war and returned in a bag, not by their choosing of course because McCain will have to reinforce the draft to send enough youngsters along to fulfill his warmonger fantasies...than vote Republican. If you want your daughters to loose their right to choose, if you want your children to be taught creationism during their formative years, if you want to blur the separation between church and state...then vote Republican. If you really care and want to fix this place (America the Beautiful) before it gets taken down the rabbit-hole by the neocons any further than it already has...then vote for Obama, please!!!

Posted by: RJ | September 9, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

After reading through all these comments I'm a little shocked at the display of ignorance in them.

Having "a muslim faith" does not make someone a terrorist. All politicians tell fibs - both parties do it, its part of the game, stop acting shocked and appalled when someone of the opposing party does it. "Radical-ness" in any form is bad, yes radical christians are just as bad as radical muslims.

It is one thing to disagree on policies and issues and have meaningful, intelligent debates on the topics. But the ignorant, personal attacks have to stop. Someone is going to get elected in November - whoever that may be both parties need to come together to fix the problems we are so obviously having in this country right now.

Posted by: Lynn | September 9, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Let's give it up for the cut and paste crowd.

Yee Haw...

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Here's the problem with the term respect:

Definitions of respect on the Web:

-(usually preceded by `in') a detail or point; "it differs in that respect"
esteem: the condition of being honored (esteemed or respected or well regarded); "it is held in esteem"; "a man who has earned high regard"
an attitude of admiration or esteem; "she lost all respect for him"
-deference: a courteous expression (by word or deed) of esteem or regard; "his deference to her wishes was very flattering"; "be sure to give my respects to the dean"
-obedience: behavior intended to please your parents; "their children were never very strong on obedience"; "he went to law school out of respect for his father's wishes"
-regard: a feeling of friendship and esteem; "she mistook his manly regard for love"; "he inspires respect"
regard highly; think much of; "I respect his judgement"; "We prize his creativity"
show respect towards; "honor your parents!"
-deference: courteous regard for people's feelings; "in deference to your wishes"; "out of respect for his privacy"

So, anyone still confused on the meaning of respect? Just checking.

Obama/Biden 08

Posted by: Azhure | September 9, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

"this world is hopeless but i love it anyway"

Finally. Rational thinking.

Thank you.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Can you qualify b for me? Is the plan full of Americans? If it is, then shooting it down will kill americans...must shoot down plane to keep americans from being killed...can't shoot down plane because americans will be killed....owe, my brain hurts.

Do I get a do over?

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

this world is hopeless but i love it anyway

Posted by: AbrahamLincoln | September 9, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

If you were the President what would you do?
Terrorists are heading for the White House in a 747. Choose one?
a.) Call them on a cell phone and ask them to go to lunch so you could talk them out of killing lots of democrats.
b.) Shoot down the plane before it could kill Americans.
c.) Nothing because you have a great security plan that stopped the terrorists before they could hijack a plane.
d.)Wait for a poll to see what decision to make?

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

"Terry=Culture of Fear."

Hahahaha....Culture of Fear? Culture of Fear?

I'm not the one spewing doom and gloom. How is being rational the same as spreading fear?

You guys (and gals) are cracking me up.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Terry=Culture of Fear.

Posted by: Hello | September 9, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

"There is nothing to take over, no ideas or beliefs that need be questioned and if EVERYONE thought for themselves and realized this there would be no terrorism, wars, or violence only progress of humanity"

And I'm the one who was just accused of being simplistic...seriously, if you have a group of people who all think for themselves unless they are magically in sync with all their independent thoughts and beliefs, someone is going to end up getting smacked up side the head. Human nature.

I agree we should all be independent thinkers. I just don't believe in utopias.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Too literally, which other way was he supposed to take it. This is an election not a poetry contest. Say what you mean and mean what you say.

Posted by: Hello | September 9, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

"You may hate someone but you have enough respect not to hit them."

No, I respect the law enough not to hit them...or I respect my own life not to hit someone who might hit harder than I do.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Obama took what Palin said too literally.

Posted by: David | September 9, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Dear Anonymous,
I am really sorry you feel the way you do. Sounds like things are ruff. I lost my job in November and my dad died in Feb. brain cancer. My money is gettng low and my health insurance is gone. But on the brite side I see a change coming really. I am 57 on Sept. 14 2008. I have seen America change. We need someone who will fix America and John McCain and Sarah Palin will do that. I think you have the right to be mad.

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Terry,

There is nothing to take over, no ideas or beliefs that need be questioned and if EVERYONE thought for themselves and realized this there would be no terrorism, wars, or violence only progress of humanity

Posted by: AbrahamLincoln | September 9, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Republican4Obam

Well said. Well spoken.

I'm in awe of your complex and optimistic thinking.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Human rights and respect are essentially the same thing, depending on your view.

You may hate someone but you have enough respect not to hit them.

Example:
I respect your right to a lawyer and due process, and a fair trail....(even though I rather not)

Posted by: Hello | September 9, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

""Sorry dude, but global unity and thinking for yourself are mutually exclusive concepts...""

Terry, you are possibly the most simplistic and cynical thinker here. Not exactly dumb, just lazy.

Posted by: Republican4Obama | September 9, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

"Everyone deserves human rights and respect,.."

Seriously, respect? Human rights is one thing, but respect?

Respect is earned, it's not a right.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Dear Terry,
Very funny. Maybe we could get some ear mark spending approved so we could all that a terrorist to lunch.
Dem and Repub need to unite to fix America.

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Wow, finally. What took you so long Barak? In this election, the only hope to preserve our constitution is a win for Barak Obama. A win for the do-anything-to-win McCain/Palin ticket means the terrorists have won because we will be more like them.

Posted by: Nara | September 9, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Within our justice system, any sentence that imposes death automatically requires an extensive series of reviews and appeals. Where allowed, the death penalty can only be imposed for the most heinous of crimes. The very existence of the death penalty is hottly contested.

Doen't it seem strange that we are willing to accept the targeting and execution of "terrorist" without any form of due process. But, we object to "violating their constitutional rights". Wouldn't it make more sense to take an action (such as warrantless wiretapping or not reading them their rights) that might actually prove they aren't terrorist; resulting in them not being executed?

Posted by: Quizzical | September 9, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

You might think it's Barack the bomb-thrower, but it might be Barack the guy running for president."

Wow. I think he just might be Barack the he's cracking up guy, Barack the I'm down four points in the poll guy, Barack the why didn't I pick Hillary as my running mate guy, Barack the Palin the Veep has less experience than me the Prez guy, or Barack the hey this is not fair after all I'm "the one" guy.

Posted by: Yusaf the you said it guy | September 9, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

McCain = Status Quo
Palin = Empty card trick


"Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

-the 'right' continues to underwhelm

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Terry

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

I highly doubt special operatives spend a whole lot of time taking out the wrong people, but I admit it can happen.

Read my first comment about the Iraq surge.

Posted by: Hello | September 9, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

"...think for yourself and make your own informed decisions...its time to move together towards global unity and human
collaboration for the greater good and progress of mankind."

Sorry dude, but global unity and thinking for yourself are mutually exclusive concepts. The only time you'll have global unity is when one group wins and forces everyone else to think as they do. Have you considered moving to China?

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

What bugs me about right-wingers who don't think clearly is that they smash together a bunch of different issues -- Obama's positon on habeus corpus and his position on killing the leaders, for example -- and come up with wildly simplistic conclusions that rationalize their dislike of the candidate. Why not just logically look at the issues and come to a logical conclusion? We being royally screwed by an Administration that's hungry for power and control in the world. And McCain seems to want to continue this course of action. That's sort of the bottom line.

Posted by: Republican4Obama | September 9, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Dear zombie kid
Are you really a zombie kid? Carl Rove who? I am not a CR lover. I am just fed up with the democrats making zombies out of our kids.

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

So by his own logic, couldn't we possibly "take out" the wrong Mohammed?

Posted by: John | September 9, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Thank God we are finally defending the Constitution. This is the civic religion we all share. The last 8 years has been despicable - signing statements, subordination of torture, abandonment of habeas corpus and expansion of executive power beyond all limits. It has meant unscrupulous and rotten people forging documents and lying us into an unnecessary war. I cannot bear four or eight more years of this! What an outrageous assault we have suffered on our constitutional during the Bush/Cheney years. What a decline we have pitifully witnessed of our national principles and ideals. It is about time we elected two fine people who have read, studied, taught and defended the constitituion, rather than perpetuate those who seek to undermine its limitations upon the abuses of power, and shame us before the world.

Posted by: Christine Bork | September 9, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

if the surge had no chance of working, why did over half the congress approve it because they believed it would, and then it did?

oh wait thats right, obamas poor judgment, lets all go toss babies its what obama allowed in illinois.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Sadly, the Constitution is JUNK. Has been since 9/12/2001 and with Dictator Bush at the helm, I doubt it will ever return.

Jiff
www.anonymize.us.tc

Posted by: JIm Woods | September 9, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

But if you don't know who the leaders are and have suspects, than you need to give them their rights. Everyone deserves human rights and respect, regardless of what you think. If you don't you end up killing innocent people or detaining innocent people.
You can't just kill everyone in the real world it doesn't work that way and just breeds more terrorism.

Posted by: Hello | September 9, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

f jesus, f your concepts of gods and religion. f the left and f the
right think for yourself and make your own informed decisions. its the
age of information and you are all open to it. this election will
undoubtedly determine what america is. f nations and their petty
conflicts its time to move together towards global unity and human
collaboration for the greater good and progress of mankind.

one love

Posted by: AbrahamLincoln | September 9, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Um... Hello: We shouldn't be in that war in the first place. We should have a plan to get out of Bush's folly and go about "taking out the leaders" where they reside: Afghanistan.

Posted by: Republican4Obama | September 9, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

If we hate each other we will be destroyed.
Obama seems like a nice guy. John McCain wants to put America first. John McCain is the person we all would like to be, a person at the age of 72 who has more energy them most internet jukies. A man who has all that he needs yet is willing to serve others, you and me! You have to give him credit he loves his country. I believe he is our next President. When gas is under $2.00 a gallon you will have to thank John McCain and Sarah Palin.

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Patriotism has nothing to do with flags. Murder is murder.

Overturning R vs W woudl do more harm than good, and legislating morality never works.

The repubs have done a wonderful job of turning christianity into a pro-life, pro war, facist, nationalistic cult.

They have also done a GREAT job of making the guy who makes LESS than 250k per year that they're on HIS side. They're not.

Mixing politics and religion was one of the nazi's claim to fame. Jerry Falwell's politics lost more souls than he brought to Christ. Sad.

It's even better than a cult, because the head of the cult isn't here to explain, screw up. I am a born again christian ans I know right from wrong, and mccain/repubs are on the wrong side of these issues.

Posted by: steve | September 9, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

"My position has always been clear: If you've got a terrorist, take him out," Obama said. "Anybody who was involved in 9/11, take 'em out."

So, in this context "take 'em out" doesn't mean kill them? What does it mean, take them out to lunch...oh that's right, obama said he'd talk to anyone, so that must be what he meant.

Maybe obama can create the National Take a Terrorist to Lunch Day.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

No he saying you should target the leaders, which is the only real reason the surge in Iraq is working. Its due to special ops taking out the leaders, but everyone just doesn't pay attention.

Posted by: Hello | September 9, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

"atheists shouldnt be talking about god if they dont even beleive in him"

Really? Great! Democrats shouldn't talk about tax cuts for the rich if they don't believe in them.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Well, Terry, you're not reading Obama right. So... go back and read again.

Posted by: Republican4Obama | September 9, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

JimR strokes to a picture of Karl Rove. Praise Up!

Posted by: zombie kid | September 9, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

So, if I'm reading Obama right, we should kill the terrorist rather than catch them. If we catch them, since they might be the wrong guy, we have to give them rights. But if we kill them...well, they're dead and they don't have any rights.

Posted by: Terry | September 9, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

okay, first off anyone spouting that god takes a spouting ignorant view of the individual issues and picks teh guy who has the least amount of black marks on his moral record.

atheists shouldnt be talking about god if they dont even beleive in him.

god has never been about the individual ignorant partisan issues, he is about who stands honorably through it all.

mccain is and always has been an honorable man, from his time in the hanoi hilton, to his time voting on issues in congress which he actually did vote for instead of present essentially demeaning hte job of a congressional representative. mccain did leave his first wife, as he fell in love with a woman who was outspoken and extroverted because of her beauty, who then got in a car accident and shelled herself off. we all have friends who we drift apart from because they change completely from who we loved..mccain is no exception.

if you want the issues on obama, so u can snidely bite a comeback, for starters, cocaine, cigarettes, abortion, and most appalling the life births he allowed to be thrown out because no one would take them which was only stopped by extremist right wing groups.

the fact is obama is a relatively good politician, who i wouldnt trust babysitting my son or daughter, unless he did so in front of the cameras as a political stunt to advance his carreer. his dirty and dangerous connections, including his preacher who he supposedly denounced, his brother who he has yet to denounce, and many others including rezko and ayers who he has taken contributions from only to lie about the amount contributed.

i do beleive god takes sides in everything we do on earth, and for all i know he is on naders. but teh simple reality is god never preached following rules as a mindset for heaven, in fact his greatest endorsement went to a man who commited adultery and murder (king david) so lets all get off our high horses, and stick to teh facts, you think your god, and you would vote for your pick.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Dems with amnesia -- there's a right way to plan an attack and a wrong way. The Bush Administration went about it the wrong way -- and at a time when we actually needed to focus on the current crisis: Osama Bin Laden... in Afghanistan. So the video you linked to is irrevelent.

Posted by: Republican4Obama | September 9, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse


i laugh at you people. if i'm american, i'd vote for obama.

mccain, you can go rest in your retirement homes and start spending your retirement benefits. palin, you go shag your daughter's boyfriend.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

It is hard to believe Obama was ever a Con law professor with his weak reasoning and specious arguments. What about the terrorists who were not directly responsible for 9-11 but are mere facilitators for other military strikes against the US and US interests? Do they get killed on the spot under president Obama or do they get the right to habeas corpus? What if president Obama invades Iran to prevent them from producing nukes like he alluded to on Sunday? (he said military action is not off the table.) If we capture Iranians on the battlefield do their soldiers get the right to petition for habeas corpus? If not then why do non uniformed terrorists get more rights? These are serious questions and all Obama does is repeat ACLU talking points while trying to act tough at the same time. BTW how does Obama feel about the 2nd amendment (wasn't he for the DC gun ban before he was against it?) and federalism or is his defense of the constitution only when he agrees with it?

Posted by: WhoIStheOne? | September 9, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

You are brillant. My sentiments exactly.
A decided independent.

"With Obama, I can have hope because he listens to people and isn't some old buzzard stuck in the stone ages who doesn't know the first thing about the economy. McCain has the most pathetic running mate I have ever seen. She's less prepared than Dan Quayle and twice as dangerous to the well being of this country."

Posted by: Angela | September 9, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Sir, That video says nothing about the current war and how this administration went about declaring it.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

"Scott, you are too kind to Composmentis."

That was mine; I just forgot to sign it. I proud not to be anonymous.

Posted by: BobH | September 9, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

"Composmentis... your post is extremely ignorant of the fact that the right to vote and the right to habeus corpus are two very different rights...Posted by: Scott L"

Scott, you are too kind to Composmentis. Why is it that the most hateful, sarcastic posts are those by people who seem to have the most trouble putting together an articulate, logical argument? Composmentis ridicules Obama's lack of intelligence and his "stupid arguments." That's beyond belief! I'm not sure which is sillier--the sarcastic attack on the former editor of the Harvard Law Review who went on to teach constitutional law at the U. of Chicago, or the fact that it came from Composmentis, wno seems not to have learned ANYTHING in high school civics. It's pathetic.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

For Steve W. and "liberals against an unjust war", just because there appears to be a great deal of memory loss on the topic:
http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv

Posted by: Dems with amnesia | September 9, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Dear SteveW
Dear Rob,
Jesus remained on the cross so he could save lives. But the god of this world has blinded your eyes to that truth. Jesus said you hate me and my Father. But he also said that he would not hold that against you if you repent. If you really wanted the sick made whole and the poor helped you would do something about it.
Vote for life. That would be a start.

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

F religion

Posted by: AbrahamLincoln | September 9, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

It wasn't always like this, Patrick. There once were many honorable Republicans:
Lincoln
Teddy Roosevelt
Eisenhower
Rockefeller
Taft
It's when some of the more inbred Democrats started flooding into the party during the civil rights years that things began to turn around for us. (I'm not pinpointing any geographical are, now!) It's sad. I've wanted to hang on, but I've had it. This is not the Republican Party that freed the slaves. This is a totally new and horrible animal, and the transformation is only now totally complete.

Posted by: Republican4Obama | September 9, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

thank about this if you were among the top 5 percent in this country would you want someone to come along and raise your taxes, When you can keep things just the way they are and let the middle and below middle class foot the bills. We have had enough of this and want to be treated at least fair by a goverment that so far have not cared about us at all for the last 8 years I think that it is unexceptable for this to continue.

Posted by: mary | September 9, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

People like "Jim R" are part of the 26% who still follow George Bush and think the rapture will engulf us when Israel and Iran go to war.

Posted by: Aaron | September 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Dear Rob
Sorry if you thought I said God is onmy side I said God is on all our sides because He know the future and we do not. God wants good for us. If we could see what God sees we would know he Loves us all!

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Would Jesus turn away the sick because they didn't have money? No. Liberals want Government health care for those who need help and cant afford it.

Would Jesus turn his back on the poor who were down on their luck and needed financial help to put food on the table or pay the electric bill? No. Liberals want to raise the minimum wage.

Would jesus tell the elderly that its their fault they are living in poverty and cant afford percriptions? Would he tell them they should have invested more wisely? No. Liberals want to save social security.

Would Jesus start wars and kill innocents and flex the power of his father to all? We know he could have came down from the cross. No. Liberals are against the unjust war.

Posted by: SteveW | September 9, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

All Sarah Smoke and John McMirrors have is snark. They can't talk about the issues - she's not conversant without a script, and he's just a lost goose without canned words. When are they going to address where they plan to take us. What's their policy/plans on education, on the economy? All I've heard from McCain & Palin is the same bitter divisive talk we've been hearing from the republicans for the last 8 years - frankly, I've heard enough. They've got nothin'.

I'm no longer an "undecided" voter.

Posted by: Jordy | September 9, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

So, if we can catch the wrong person, what makes him think we always have the right person in the "government sites"? What if we "took out" the wrong person? He sounds tough, but if a HellFire missile hit the wrong person, Noboma would be calling for the heads of whatever service man/woman press the button.

Posted by: just me | September 9, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Obama mentions it here a little bit-about bomb-thrower Barack-but I think he is doing well to talk about terrorists while asserting his patriotism. It's comforting to hear him defend that. Kudos.

funny parody of Obama internet rumors: http://tinyurl.com/6jb7l6

Posted by: Roger | September 9, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

dale:
"again i must state occums razor, that if all things are equal, the most simple of solutions is the most accurate."

If you must, dear boy, at least get it right.
Occam's (or Ockham's) Razor states:
"entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity".

You cannot use that to squirm out of political embarrassment.

Posted by: strum | September 9, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Apart from all the hoopla brought into our living rooms through the conventions and the media coverage of the allusive Palin mystique, what Barack touches on here is the REAL issue.

The Bush administration has decimated our Constitution, and we NEED to know that whoever takes his place will revoke all the BS sidestepping and restore our law of the land to its pre-Bush glory.

This to me is THE issue!

And after what Bush/Cheney has done to it, I think we're going to need a good Constitutional Law expert to fix it.

Posted by: Ken Nadreau | September 9, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

It is truly amazing to see the extremes on both sides. Is it any wonder that partisan politics prevents anything productive to be accomplished by Congress?

I would like to point out a couple of facts that seem to be lost on many:

1) All this talk of the last 8 years; it can easily be argued that of the last 8 years, the most recent 2 years have been the worst economically, politically, etc. And which party has been in charge of both the Senate and House over those last 2 years, with lawmaking and government budget responsibility?

2) According to what information I can dig up on the net, McCain voted with Republicans (not Bush, as many say, as any intelligent person knows that the President doesn't have a vote in Congress) 89% of the time in 2007. However, it was as low as 77% in 2005. Obama voted with Democrats 97% of the time in 2007. So, if this is the record that really matters, as many contend, which presidential candidate is most likely to challenge his own party and "reach across the aisle"?

Not that these should be the only measurements by which a candidate should be evaluated; just thought it would be interesting to evaluate the composite picture of these two "arguments" rather than one side only.

Posted by: Stupefied by ignorant and arrogant comments | September 9, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Jim, so you want to bring god into this?! The Pope and the Catholic church already condemned the war and said that its wrong and immoral. McCain supported it. God and the church also believe that a divorce is a sin. McCain is there once again (p.s. he wasn't even divorced and was already courting his new wife....thats adultery.)

So if you want to bring God and religion into politics....lets bring it ALL! Lets not pick and choose which religious topics make our favorite candidate look better.

Posted by: SteveW | September 9, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

I agree we can win this.

Obama is handeling this the right way,they are trying to make him angry, infact they need to make him angry so that they can say look there's goes that angry blackman.
I am proud of the way that he handles himself.

Posted by: mary | September 9, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Did Jesus order the murder of 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilians over the course of this war? I thought your party was pro-life? Damn hypcrites. No wonder more and more people are TURNING on Christianity.

Posted by: Patrick | September 9, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

The change that McCain wants is to bash the intellectuals and any one that has European ideas[ap].Maybe you look different "foreign" I believe is the code word,your not a hockey mom ,soccer mom, NASCAR dad, you live in a city and your educated, you have a world view and think it takes a village to help raise your family,-ie schools, extended family, neighbors, friends, then your some how bad or on the fringe maybe even evil, dose that not give you that warm fuzzy feeling? Well be afraid very afraid.The right wing "Conservative" brings something else to mind,Germany a wounded war veteran who wrote a book and was a God fearing right winger who found his country receptive because of their plight after a bitter war and bad economic times. The intellectuals, the educated, foreigners,ones that were liberal,and folks that didn't "share their values" NOT LIKE US. The Jews fit the bill, different religion, businessmen, intellectuals, liberal, not like us- them. This right wing conservative group with it's leader invoked Gods name and went on a crusade to right many perceived wrongs and to settle old scores. The church blessed them and their weapons and they went out in Gods name to make the world in their image and well you know the rest.Fiction? Not hardly religion has no place in politics.there is a reason for separation of church and state It seems that to be a Christian now we have to wrap our selves in the flag and if you don't you're bad,or unpatriotic, un American. But if You are a true Christian the Christ said give Caesars things to Caesar, and that His Kingdom was no part of this world he was not involved in politics. You don't have to be a Christian to be a patriot or pick up a gun or join the military to be a patriot , just like wrapping your self in the flag and the bible makes a bad person good or a patriot because it doesn't. That man in Germany was wrapped in his flag and the bible and was blessed by the church was he a good man? I guess not but his followers thought so they were convinced by the dogma of the crusade and that evil was across the street, next door, the next country, folks not like them, and if those evil doers were dehumanized they were-are easy to kill. I guess the Christian right forgot the 10 commandments, pick it up its a good read

Posted by: jonny bullet | September 9, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"Dear Republican4Obama
If you know you will stand before God that will change your life and your vote."

Jim R- It's people like you who turn others away from Christianity. What makes you think God is on "your" side?

Posted by: Rob | September 9, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Jim H stop you must be a fake this is not the forum for this discussion.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

fosterdad:
"What part of the Constitution states that foreign nationals captured by soldiers overseas in war time are entitled to habeus corpus? Show me that section in the Constitution. I can't find it."
Then you aren't looking very hard.
Article II gives the power to make treaties ("He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur"), which become US law.

The Geneva Conventions (all of them) are US law.

I'm not even American and I know that much.

Posted by: strum | September 9, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

I am amazed at how easily citizens are divided by lies that they don't even bother to check into.

If you believe the gun magazine ads, you would think Barack was going to come to your home and take all of your guns. They also claim he would close 90% of the gun shops. Well.. here is it.. I promise if 90% of the gun shops arre closed, I'll vote for republicans the rest of my life. But, it isn't oging to happen, that is a lie aimed at getting gun lovers to vote for McCain over a single issue. No matter that with 4 more years of Republican rule, you may not be able to afford a gun.

Palin is as educated and experienced as Obama? Now that is a laugh.

For god's sakes people PLEASE study these candidates and choose the one who you think can help this country MOVE FORWARD instead of BACKWARDS. We aren't going back to the 50's no matter how many Republicans are voted into office.

Nice of Palin to believe in abstinance for young people to avoid teen pregnancies. Too bad it didn't work for her daughter. More clear evidence that Republicans like to live in a fantasy world and ignore reality.

I'm an independent, I have all the evidence I need to make a clear choice in this election. McCain might change lobbying. That is about it.

With Obama, I can have hope because he listens to people and isn't some old buzzard stuck in the stone ages who doesn't know the first thing about the economy. McCain has the most pathetic running mate I have ever seen. She's less prepared than Dan Quayle and twice as dangerous to the well being of this country.

Posted by: billdacat | September 9, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Most honorable Republican4Obama
Why would you say God id a McCain man. God is for all of us but we are not all for Him.

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Oh, the position here seems clear: If you don't wanna follow the rule of law, just "take 'em out".

Posted by: davidly | September 9, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

OK, Jim. Thanks for sharing again. Didn't realize God was a McCain man. I mean, Bush says he talks to God and all. Guess I should have known he'd persuade the bugger to vote McCain.

Posted by: Republican4Obama | September 9, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Dear Republican4Obama
If you know you will stand before God that will change your life and your vote.

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

since the entire MCCain/Palin campaign is built around lies, they try to inject their fears into all of us, because then they win. The Dems are a large party much larger than the Rep, they are counting on use to loose.

Posted by: mary | September 9, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Um... OK,, Jim. Thanks for sharing.

Posted by: Republican4Obama | September 9, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Jim H what are you smoking the rapture is not in the Bible neither is China or Russia . Also Israel has nothing to do with the end Because-- now get this-- after JESUS was born and died Christianity started, you know after the day of pentecost when those in the upper room were given the ability to speak the language of the nations to go out and preach to make disciples of the Gentiles. The Jews were no longer the chosen ones.

Posted by: jonny bullet | September 9, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Dear Republican4Obama,
I am not nuts. I did what the Bible says to do, if you want to know something that you don't know. I have called on God and he has answered me and told me great and mighty things that I did not know. I wanted to learn what really happened to the dinosuars. So I prayed for an answer. God directed me to the book of II Peter 3:5 the earth standing in the water and out of the water. That was odd an earth standing in the water and out of the water. That wasn't the flood of Noah. Next: Dinosaurs are like x's and y's in an equation; God teaching program. The way Jesus would teach is to tell a parable. A story with a spiritual meaning. Everything has a meaning and a purpose a physical meaning and a spiritual meaning. The book of psalms says men are like trees, the new testament says christians are to be fishers of men. Men in this world are like fish. Each man has a meausre of faith and God has put eternity in their heart. They must chioce for themselves who to trust.

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Some of you people really need to try to snap out of it! I'm reading tripe like this man has no right to insult our War Hero and his Partner and SOUL MATE! This is a campaign for the President of The United States. Yes. He Does Have A Right To Speak! Would you know a lie, when Bush has been lying to you since day one!

Obama is Not Trying To Confuse You. You Are Already Confused. Headlines today:
-------------------------------------------
Palin's Expenses Under Scrutiny
Bush to maintain Iraq Troop Levels until 2009
New Estimate Puts Budget Deficit At Record

Housing Market Not Out Of The Woods

Wow those Republicans sure know how to screw things up!

source: MSNBC.com
------------------------------------------
McCain/Palin supporters:persons who acquiesce to authority, and thus undermine their own human individuality. The implication is that as a collective, people believe whatever they are told, especially if told so by authority figures, without processing it to be sure that it is an accurate representation of the real world around them. The term is generally used in a political or religious sense.

Posted by: New Hampshire and I can Still Think For Myself - Thank you! | September 9, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

After reading some of these comments, it's clear that as Americans, we all need to truly educate ourselves on these candidates, and the policies they support. There is a lot of crap out there about each of these candidates that's simply not true. Don't perpetuate that info.
Get educated on the policies. Register to vote (if you aren't already), and vote. Ignore the personalities, focus on the policies.
Before you do vote, however, really ask yourself this question, "Am I truly better off now than I was 8 years ago? Is my family better off now"?

Posted by: ItMatters | September 9, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

By the way, Elisabeth -- No, the people who don't want to see your logic won't see your logic. They'd rather win some game they and Rush Limbaugh have made up than actually know the facts. So many people in my party have become lemmings (or "dittoheads"), it's profoundly sad. I'm conservative. I disagree with the mechanics of a lot of what Obama stands for. But this are small things compared with the really scary stuff this new Republican Party stands for. Obama is an upstanding man. I'd rather have an upstanding man in charge with whom I disagree than a bunch of non-Americans who will strip us of our very American-ness as their followers smilingly bend over and take it.

Posted by: Republican4Obama | September 9, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Amen Lone!! Well, you know what I mean :-)

Get out the vote people.... get off the Internet and get out and actively help Obama win this Novemeber!! We can win this!!!

Posted by: Lone II | September 9, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I may be just a simple old Southern white boy, but my eyes well up with pride when I listen to someone, particularly a son of slavery, defend constitutional principles under the darkest of circumstances. I carry a sword and a shield for Senator Obama; it is the noblest fight of my generation. I owe it to the next one.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well said Sir; and as a direct descendant of slaves that served this beloved country in the military, I stand with you as a brother, shoulder to shoulder in our common goal of electing a THINKING PERSON as POTUS! God knows we need it...

Posted by: MikeJay | September 9, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Jim R, that's nice, but what in hell does it have to do with this discussion? Actually, why the hell am I still reading this insane garbage. You'd think on the Washington Post site, you'd find more educated people, not absolute nutcases who will just say anything, with no regard to the facts or anything else real. And these pathetic people posing as women against Obama because he isn't "respectful." Jesus! No need to even address such absurdity. Folks, have a wonderful day. And God help us all.

Posted by: Republican4Obama | September 9, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

"It is traitorous to suggest that these people who mean harm to the US like the mexican drug lords have more protection under the Constitution than do an American citizen!" -------------- I'll try one more time. This has nothing to do with rights of individuals -- it is a power given to inidividuals that serves to limit governmental abuses. ----- Try this. You are an American citizen, visiting Miami, FL. A Dade Co. sheriff shows up at your door, slaps handcuffs on you, and says "We have proof you are a foreign enemy combatant and you're going to jail." It isn't true - you're just some schmuck taking a vacation .... BUT .... if McCain & the Sup Ct minority had their way, because someone SAID you were an enemy combatant, you would not have the ability to get in front of a judge to tell him you're an American citizen and make your jailer prove you are who he says (which he couldn't) or let you go. ---- Do you see why it's important for habeas corpus to apply to *everyone* that a government imprisons? If it doesn't apply to ALL equally, then every single one of us (citizen and non-citizen alike) could be arrested, imprisoned and never heard from. It's a limit on the government regarding anyone they imprison, it is not a right (like our Bill of Rights) held only by citizens. (And trust me if you were picked up and tossed in jail in England or Mexico or some other country, you would suddenly be very, very pleased that habeas corpus is recognized in most civilized counties and applies to *anyone* in prison, not just citizens of a country.)

Posted by: Elizabeth | September 9, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

This is nice stuff from a guy who trashed the 4th amendment. If he taught constitutional law for 10 years, he had to know that general warrant spying on citizens is against the law. This did not stop him from voting for it. Bad Barack. no biscuit.

-----------

His position on the second amendment seems to be that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, but that laws can be enacted to control the type of arms you can have access to.

I think that is a constitutionally supportable position so long as we constantly continue the debate on whether or not these laws approach 'infringement'. It is certainly common sense that some weapons should be restricted. You do not need a TOW missile in your closet, for example. It would be inappropriate to keep an armed battle tank in your garage.

If you can allow that limitations can be placed on the types of arms people can bear, then his position is not a breach of the constitution. The laws do become a violation, however, when the limitations they impose are deemed to effectively infringe upon the right.

As for caving on wiretapping, I am equally disappointed. I read his analysis of why he ultimately gave in and agreed to the bill, but there really can be no excuse. The best I can say is that he is on record as opposing it, and McCain is on record as supporting it. I only hope that if Obama wins, he will use his power to help correct the issue.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Why Yes!! Indeed, let us make sure that people who come over here from Arabia to blow up our skyscrapers, destroy our economy and kill our citizenry have all of their Constitutional rights.

Let's make sure they all have access to firearms, as guaranteed in the Second Amendment.

Let's make sure they can all associate freely and communicate their plans with each other as guaranteed by the First Amendment.

Since health care is a basic human right, let's make sure if they get sick they get free medical care so they can get into the health necessary to detonate their nuclear bombs.

Barack Hussein Obama, if you don't like being compared to terrorists, stop having such empathy for terrorists, like Bill Ayers.
-------------------------------------------------
Why yes, let's do just that, because we are a nation of LAWS, and due process is afforded to ALL who come here. It is what used to make us the envy of the world; now we're the laughingstock. And before generalizing about things it's apparent you know nothing about, research how the Bush/Cheney Administration handled Osama Bin Laden's immediate family in the aftermath of 9/11.

Posted by: MikeJay | September 9, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

The change that McCain wants is to bash the intellectuals and any one that has European ideas[ap].Maybe you look different "foreign" I believe is the code word,your not a hockey mom ,soccer mom, NASCAR dad, you live in a city and your educated, you have a world view and think it takes a village to help raise your family,-ie schools, extended family, neighbors, friends, then your some how bad or on the fringe maybe even evil, dose that not give you that warm fuzzy feeling? Well be afraid very afraid.The right wing "Conservative" brings something else to mind,Germany a wounded war veteran who wrote a book and was a God fearing right winger who found his country receptive because of their plight after a bitter war and bad economic times. The intellectuals, the educated, foreigners,ones that were liberal,and folks that didn't "share their values" NOT LIKE US. The Jews fit the bill, different religion, businessmen, intellectuals, liberal, not like us- them. This right wing conservative group with it's leader invoked Gods name and went on a crusade to right many perceived wrongs and to settle old scores. The church blessed them and their weapons and they went out in Gods name to make the world in their image and well you know the rest.Fiction? Not hardly religion has no place in politics.there is a reason for separation of church and state It seems that to be a Christian now we have to wrap our selves in the flag and if you don't you're bad,or unpatriotic, un American. But if You are a true Christian the Christ said give Caesars things to Caesar, and that His Kingdom was no part of this world he was not involved in politics. You don't have to be a Christian to be a patriot or pick up a gun or join the military to be a patriot , just like wrapping your self in the flag and the bible makes a bad person good or a patriot because it doesn't. That man in Germany was wrapped in his flag and the bible and was blessed by the church was he a good man? I guess not but his followers thought so they were convinced by the dogma of the crusade and that evil was across the street, next door, the next country, folks not like them, and if those evil doers were dehumanized they were-are easy to kill. I guess the Christian right forgot the 10 commandments, pick it up its a good read

Posted by: jonny bullet | September 9, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Thats why they are left wing. They AREN'T RIGHT!

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Obama is the only one that stands half a chance at uniting this country - perhaps 55-60%. It is at that point that the country will start to move again in the right direction. As for the 40-45% that are excluded - to hell with you.

Posted by: Franco | September 9, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

rcrtr

Dear bogus,

Keep watching this guy spit on America. You are a fake.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Christians are not dumb they just need the right motivation to search the scriptures so God can reveal the mysteries hid from the children of darkness. The present earth is approximately 6000 years old since Adam and Eve. The earth was remodeled after Gen 1:1. The dinosuars lived on the first earth and were destroyed because of Satan's fall. Adam named all the animals but each time we discover a new dinosuar we must give it a name. God made an everlasting covent with Noah and the animals that He would not destroy the earth again with a flood. (After the 1000 year reign of Christ the earth will again be renovated by fire and all things will be burned up and then God will create a new Heaven and Earth.) But he did not name the dinosaurs. The earth looks like it is old because it is but the age is not none. The geological features are evidence of a world wide destruction. Noahs flood came later. Noah was told the animals were for breading. Why do we see no dinosaurs because they already died in the first renewal. Noah to replenish the earth. Adam was also told to replenish the earth Why? Because the first earth had a system with animals and plants and people but they perished in the first destruction during the rebellion of Satan. The earth will exist forever and ever. Satan and his demons are running this world right now. Jesus Christ will return to earth after the 7 year tribulation, the church will be caught out at the rapture. Israel will be attacked by Russia. Russia will lose 5/6ths of its forces. China will invade the middle east with a 200 million man army. Then Jesus will return as King of Kings and Lord of lords with the armies of heaven to defeat Satan and to setup his Kingdom on earth forever. Now thanks what I call a plan for the future.

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

I think that some of the people on this Blog are out of their minds, there is so much hate in some of you right wing hipocrites that I don't see how you can stand to call yourselves americans you would rather follow some one around in the dark than to admit what your reals problem is STOP lieing to yourself and everyone else we can see right through you because your hatered run so deep you are no better that the terrorist that you are so worried about. the fact of the matter is that this is a black man and the though of him maybe doing something in this country that just may benifit us all would be more than you all can handle. you defend people that have told so many lies that they are begining to believe their own hipe.There will be a change in this country and the MCcains/Palins in the world can't stop it, because as strong as evil is good have a way of triumping.

Posted by: mary | September 9, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Beware the Thor Watchmans of the Internet. They're just folks from my sorely misguided party trying to obfuscate the primary issue here: getting the current gang of incompetent neocons out of power.

Posted by: Republican4Obama | September 9, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Jack - You ask about the border guards and the illegal who was a drug dealer and why they were not given the same treatment, saying "who do you think has more rights."
I've heard of that case but do not know the details, but I think I should repeat that habeas corpus not a matter of "rights" - it's a limitation on the government with respect to the people that the government imprisons. Anyone who is imprisoned -- in this case, whether it's the border guards or the drug dealer, can petition for habeas corpus (literally 'you have the body' or something on that order) and the custodian of that prisoner must appear in court to establish that it is lawful for him to continue holding the person in prison. (Often this appearance is on paper, I should note.) That's all it is but it is vitally important. I assume the border guards have been charged with some crime - if not, they can petition for habeas corpus and their custodian would have to present proof that they've been charged or let them go free. Habeas corpus doesn't have any effect on what constitutes a crime, or what is needed for a fair trial, or any of that (which is probably what explains the situation you describe). It's a very simply concept: any person who is imprisoned by a government has the ability to ask a higher authority (the court) to require his custodian to show that the imprisonment is lawful. ------ Think about a world in which those same border guards could be put in the same prison but would have no way to get the attention of any authority who was more powerful than their jailer. If the government doesn't have to explain its reason for imprisoning someone, then it don't have to HAVE a reason -- it can just imprison a person and that's that. ---- And Bush, McCain and 4 of the justices on the Supreme Court want to do away with the habeas corpus for a certain class of people, which means all they have to do is say "you're an enemy combatant" and you can never challenge that designation or their right to imprison you. Habeas corpus is a very specific, but very vital safety net for all of us ..... and once a hole like this is ripped open, the protection it gives to everyone will drain away. So all I can say about the border guards is that at least they have (still) a way to find out what they have been charged with. Without habeas corpus anyone of us could be put in a jail and never have the ability to even find that out. Think about it, folks -- this is deadly serious stuff.

Posted by: Elizabeth | September 9, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

I may be just a simple old Southern white boy, but my eyes well up with pride when I listen to someone, particularly a son of slavery, defend constitutional principles under the darkest of circumstances. I carry a sword and a shield for Senator Obama; it is the noblest fight of my generation. I owe it to the next one.

Posted by: rcrtr | September 9, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

I guess when all you have to do is fill in your name and some inane comments you get this comment thread?

LORD. So many constitutional scholars on the comments today! Wow, and I thought Barack Obama majoring and teaching Constitutional law was a rarity!

I have seen some of the most absurd logic (my favorite is no flag lapel = doesn't know diddly about rights and civil liberties).

All I can say is I'm glad so many mentally handicapped people can get online nowadays.

Posted by: joe | September 9, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

It is like a Klan rally on this blog. If you can not see past the color of the Man's skin then don't vote for him. Simple as that!

Who is losing their homes, their jobs? Bush doesn't even care about White people. With that in mind many people don't want to support someone who is most likely to continue the same policies.

Barack Obama and his family did not go into this thinking that he was going to be embraced by all Americans. That is not possible. He is more than aware of the hatred by some in this country.

Small minded bigots can't really grasp that this is still (at the moment) a free country and people can actually say what they want to say. And yes defend themselves against lies.

Sorry that you may have thought it was a joke and he would never make it as far as he has. Whether he wins or loses, there will be many who respect him tremendously for going against the odds.

If you are someone who has lost their home, are going to a food pantry, taking a bus to work, cannot send your child to the college of your choice, or have lost a child it has effected you.

Who does it not affect? Probably people who can afford seven homes and their wives wear 300,000 dresses to conventions.

Continue being hateful and bigoted if you choose, some of us have more important things to do in life.

Posted by: Christina | September 9, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

I'm afraid Sinclair Lewis's comment has come true. We're living in a time when America has been hijacked by non-Americans who claim to be Christian patriots. I shudder.

Posted by: mrk | September 9, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

This is nice stuff from a guy who trashed the 4th amendment. If he taught constitutional law for 10 years, he had to know that general warrant spying on citizens is against the law. This did not stop him from voting for it. Bad Barack. no biscuit.

Posted by: Thor Watchman | September 9, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Doesn't Obama support George Bush's Fisa Bill? That mocks the constitution.

Posted by: middlefingermedia_net | September 9, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Ironcomments is dead on. It's nice when someone takes the time to write an intelligent post as opposed to making unintelligent school yard taunts.

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, 1935

Posted by: jake | September 9, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

phrase for the day

sean hannity N. 1. Inserting ones f_ _ t into a fox viewer's "sun don't shine" without the crisco.

ie, Palin likes to recieve a stiff sean hannity from jesus.

Posted by: sergio | September 9, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Composmentis, take a Civics course, at least once in your life, stay awake, no snoozing in your book, and come back and talk. You have NO IDEA of what you speak of and you make yourself look like a stupid fool. The Supreme Court voted to label what the Bush Administration cleverly called, "enemy combatants" as "prisoners of war" effectively given them rights under our Constitution, namely habeus corpus. I may not have all the answers here, but at least get up to speed on the argument. It's about showing the world the U.S. is honorable, even when dealing with terrorists. I suspect you'd be first in line to don a jacket laden with bombs in retaliation, but we are a land of laws, laws that are envied the world over.

Posted by: Martin | September 9, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Regarding the comments of "Composmentis," all I can say is... Wow, the ignorance in this country of the very fabric of our country's principles astounds me. People who claim to be American patriots don't even seem to know what America is. That, my fellow citizens, is scary.

Posted by: mrk | September 9, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

word of the day

Trig n. 1. A political prop commonly used by republicans.

Posted by: sergio | September 9, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Why Yes!! Indeed, let us make sure that people who come over here from Arabia to blow up our skyscrapers, destroy our economy and kill our citizenry have all of their Constitutional rights.

Let's make sure they all have access to firearms, as guaranteed in the Second Amendment.

Let's make sure they can all associate freely and communicate their plans with each other as guaranteed by the First Amendment.

Since health care is a basic human right, let's make sure if they get sick they get free medical care so they can get into the health necessary to detonate their nuclear bombs.

Barack Hussein Obama, if you don't like being compared to terrorists, stop having such empathy for terrorists, like Bill Ayers.

Posted by: jgalt1 | September 9, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Composmentis... your post is extremely ignorant of the fact that the right to vote and the right to habeus corpus are two very different rights. The right to vote takes into consideration whether or not you're an American citizen - non-American citizens do NOT have the right to vote. But habeus corpus does not require American citizenship, it is considered a universal right of human beings. So Obama's logic is not "profoundly stupid".. he is merely backing an American principle that has been a part of our society since its inception.

Posted by: Scott L | September 9, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I was under the impression that Evangelicals such as Ms. Palin followed the 10 commandments such as "Thou shalt not bear false witness", i.e "The bridge to nowhere".

Posted by: Peg Mc Gavock | September 9, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Well, when you get around all the frenzied righties on here throwing around lies about Obama, the real issue remains: respect the Constitution (for US citizens and POWs) if you call yourself an American.

McCain's handlers did a clever job of throwing out their latest tag line to confuse simple-minded voters: "Country First." Yet, time and again, the Republicans and John McCain and Sarah Palin (advocate of Alaska seceeding from the Union, anyone?) repeatedly could care less about putting the country before their own party's interests.

Go ahead and throw us your garbage Republican apologists, garbage is all you've given these past years and it's all you've got. Ignorance truly is bliss to Republicans.

Glad Obama is throwing it back in their faces. Too bad some people are too stupid to understand and they deserve to throw away their vote for the sake of only their party's success. Tragic.

Posted by: Martin | September 9, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Khalid el-Masri. Maher Arar. The Gray Lady of Bagram. Dilawar the Cab Driver. Chinese Uighurs.

Posted by: DCX2 | September 9, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Composmentis

He already said that in a roundaboutway way:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/04/obama_double_fo.html

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

this discussion is too reactionary. The GOP is cunning and the media is in its pocket and under its thumb.
intheh end truth is truth
mccain/palin=bush/cheney
vote for change

Obama/Biden

Posted by: mjtaylor22 | September 9, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Bravo to Barach Obama for at last addressing the un-American rhetoric that passes for patriotism on the far right. I am amazed at the number of participants in this blog that blithely blow off the constitutional rights that this country was and is built on. To quote Benjamin Franklin, "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither". That is not a belief of the old Republican party that I was raised in. There may be an excuse for Sarah Palin in her political naiivite but certainly John McCain should know better.

Incidentally, the name-callers and cliche lobbers that are so prevalent on these blogs need to disabuse themselves of any thought that somehow they are participating in a grand political conversation. They are just providing the final evidence of the paucity of real thinking in the American electorate. Seeing your rant in print doesn't make it noteworthy, in most cases just a bit pathetic. Condolences!!

Posted by: Diogenes | September 9, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Barack is either dumb or misleading the American public for his own political gain. This argument is so PROFOUNDLY STUPID it sickens me? Let me pose this question? Does Tony Blair have the right to vote for Barack in the Nov Elections? Does Osama Bin Laden have RIGHT to Vote?? Does Chavez have a RIGHT to VOTE, does Vladimir Putin have a right to Vote? does any TERRORIST HAVE AMERICAN RIGHTS??? HELL NO, because they are NOT AMERICANS!!!!!! It is traitorous to suggest that these people who mean harm to the US like the mexican drug lords have more protection under the Constitution than do an American citizen! Next Barack will say they need to get a tax stimulus check so they can feed their family

God help us all if somebody with this stellar logic ever achieves the Office of the President.

Posted by: Composmentis | September 9, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Do supporters of Palin/McCain have some sort of problems understanding that everyone does not just fall in line with another four possibly eight years of Republican rule.

You don't want your own President at the convention, you want to ignore the crisis America is in. Bush has taken care of you (except for those who are doing really well)and Palin/McCain isn't guaranteeing you a thing!

What is perfectly transparent is why you hate Obama.

Posted by: Margee | September 9, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Troglodytes such as Greg and Michael are indeed a poor excuse for a human being. I feel sorry for their families.

Posted by: foxborough | September 9, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

"All that he talks about are fundamental rights of all citizens in US. Question is Why would obama wants to give these same rights that citizens has to Terrorists who kill innocent citizens?

Do not try to confuse us obama. We are not fools we laughed because you looked like a dumb a**"

Because we are never sure whether or not we may or may not have gotten the right person? After all, it's not like some innocent people were given the death penalty over the past few decades.


Oh wait.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

It strikes me as truly ironic that those who would go to war for the rights of a blastocyst have no difficulty in wreaking havoc with the lives of those blastocysts that make it to term.

They value the life of a collection of cells, and only a collection of cells, up until the point where they deem it right and proper to starve, poison, deride and eradicate those individuals the celluar blob turned into. The "culture of life" appears to be only interested in life which cannot exist outside the womb, and then only if it has no effect on their own wallets.

Principles like that are only fit for late night comedic routines.


Posted by: Michael | September 9, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Just a few reasons why I, as a female and as an educated atheist who is pro-renewable resources, am most certainly not going to vote for McCain/Palin.

1) Palin said that Bristol had a /choice/ in keeping her child. I want to be able to make my choices as well. I probably won't abort if I have a child but if I get raped I WILL abort that child - and if I have to do it illegally I will. Who, exactly, would want to look at themselves in the mirror and see the growing seed of your attacker showing it's mark?

2) Palin threatened to sue the goverment if it put polar bears on the endangered species list. The ice-caps are melting, the ice flows are breaking - the polar bears are having problems. The only reason I can think of people /not/ wanting to put an animal on a protected list because we're wiping out their numbers is because there's a bunch of oil in the bear's habitats.

3) Closely related to two, McCain/Palin say they want more alternative energy... but then promote offshore drilling. Sure, that makes sense. There's wind, solar, electric, and water energy we can use immediately, just to name a few kinds of alternative, renewable energy.

4) "Small town vales" my arse. The only small town values /I've/ seen (and I did live in one, and a southern on at that) are smoking, boozing, fishing and beating the tar out of anybody who isn't Christian/straight - even if there was no antagonistic actions by the eventual victim. Oh, and those attackers not getting punished by mum and dad because their little angel couldn't have /possibly/ done anything wrong... or worse, the parents congratulating them for beating the tar out of said people. There's a reason I moved out of the small town life.

5) I haven't seen Palin give a good interview yet - reading well off of a piece of paper does not a second-in-command of the most powerful nation on this planet make. I know little of Palin then what I've had to search for on the internet, and what she's read off of her prepared piece of paper. McCain's not in the best of health, and the life expectancies of POWs are below average. I don't want her possibly leading the country when I know next to nothing about her.

6) It seems to me that her stance is a staunchly Christian one - and while I have no problems with Christians (except for the ones that throw bricks at atheists), there's a reason why the church and the state are supposed to be kept separate, as stated VERY CLEARLY in the constitution. While I don't mind her being a Christian, she shouldn't be allowed to make laws that are staunchly religious, such as pre-marital sex laws and laws forcing women to keep unwanted parasites growing in their wombs.

7) I see no difference between the Bush/Cheney ticket and the McCain/Palin ticket. Still, 10% change is not nearly enough right now.

Obama '08 - /Real/ Change

Posted by: Lone | September 9, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Jack

You are right. I hope someone asks Sarah Palin and John McCain about that grave injustice to our border guards. It happens nearly every day. The Mexican military is confronting our guards more than once a day.

Obama might even answer this Q right, but he is not strong against immigration abuses.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

I knew before I posted that this forum was strictly full of left wingers, but I don't mind throwing caution to the wind.
In regards to the post from Elizabeth, I
would pose a question to you on Habeas
Corpus; Why were the two border guards that
were defending our border not given the same treatment as a illegal who was a drug
dealer and criminal, he was fleeing back across the border when he was shot in the buttocks. The border guards are in jail and
the illegal was caught running drugs again after the guards were jailed. Now he is trying to sue for damages. Elizabeth is this the justice you support. I would love
to hear your explanation of this, who do you think has more rights, A known illegal
immigrant criminal or the sworn to uphold
the law border guards. I wonder who's side you are on, as for me I would have shot the criminal in the head and ended what is a joke initiated by a corrupt federal prosecuter in league with the Mexican
government. I will await your answer on this tarvesty of justice.

Posted by: Jack | September 9, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Greg in Las Vegas

Ever see the picture of the "non-baby" grabbing the doctor's hand as the doc performed surgery on the mother? Abortion is used for birth control most of the time. The small percentage of debatable issues is a smokescreen for selfish murder of "non-babies" who feel and respond. God help US for allowing this abomination.

http://www.justfacts.com/news.strugglingphotographer.asp

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

I am so proud of Barack! He is absolutely right.

We do not honor our Constitution when the government breaks its own laws. The requirement of a writ is there to PROTECT you and me against unlawful search and seizure.

If you don't think it's possible, you were not following the RNC in MN and what occurred to the law-abiding journalists who were thrown on the ground, despite identifying themselves.

I'd suggest you read: Constitutional Chaos by Judge Andrew Napolitano to learn the extent our government is going to remove YOUR freedoms, on by one without the approval of Congress. Or go online to YouTube and type in his name. Type in Naomi Wolf: Letter to a Young Patriot too, while you are there.

Protecting the rights of suspected terrorists to a fair trial may be silly to you now, but when the police come to your door to rummage through your things because you protested against the war.....you will not be find it so.

When you are thrown into prison and refused the right to speak to an attorney or a family member....you will be crying for justice then, and no one will be able to help you.

We must protect the same rights for all people and distribute justice with an even hand.

Posted by: Rosanne | September 9, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

A FETUS IS NOT A BABY!

and the world is not flat nor only 10,000 years old.

We are living in the land of the ignorant, who are driven by fear and self-rightious bigotry.

Nothing scares a Republican than a smart black man who happens to think that the Government has no businees telling a woman what to do with her OWN body.

All I ask of the racist Palin clones is this:
Keep you racist, bigoted laws awy from my family!

Posted by: Greg in Las Vegas | September 9, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Let's talk about not respecting the constitution.

Fact: Obama was a strong supporter for the Washington DC hand gun ban for a while.
Fact: Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional.

Obama switches his position AGAIN! Given that he studied constitutional law, he should have known a full ban of handguns is overreaching and unconstitutional per the 2nd amendment. It's very disturbing that he advocated this ban as recently as this year.

FACT: Obama doesn't respect the 2nd amendment. He advocates undermining it to the point where individuals do not have the right to bear arms and protect their homes and families. His support of the DC hand gun ban ought not be forgotten on Nov 4.

Posted by: Malcom Z. | September 9, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

FOXBOROUGH

Your numbers are way too low. More than 48,589,993 abortions since Roe v. Wade made offering babies to Moloch legal.

http://www.nrlc.org/ABORTION/facts/abortionstats.html

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

And when is Obama going to give up his well hidden birth certificate. Probably about the same time Bill Clinton gives up his medical records.

Posted by: FOXBOROUGH | September 9, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe that Obama has the Audacity to talk about Palin about the constitution. A man who will not wear an American Flag on his lapel. A man who will not hold his hand to his heart during the pledge of alligence or the star spangle banner. A man who had the American Flag removed from his jet and his own logo added.

Posted by: Dave G | September 9, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Those of you find a moral equivilancy between 1800 babies killed every day under the guise of a "Women's Right to Choose" and 1800 American Soldiers killed over a period of 18 months are indeed pathetic. We allow the killing of over 1,000,000 babies every year and have done so since Roe v Wade was passed to the tune of approximately 25,000,000 babies. I hope you are proud of yourselves. I certainly am not.

Posted by: FOXBOROUGH | September 9, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Jhonny,

Obviously any law removes someone's choice. I am pointing out that you cannot claim that the decision to not create a law is as restrictive as the decision to create one.

I would suggest further that it is probably unwise to create laws based on doubt and disagreement, rather than on certainty and agreement.

Like you, I am also personally against abortion and the death penalty. But whereas the death penalty is the state killing someone who is indisputably a legal living person, there is no such certainty with abortion, because there is no commonly accepted definition of when life begins. Likewise with difficult end-of-life decisions, such as the Terry Schiavo case; there is no universal definition of when life has ended, given medicine's amazing ability to indefinitely prolong physical functions.

I believe in action to end the death penalty because of the undisputed certainty that the state is indeed killing a person. But when there is no shared societal definition or agreement, as with early abortion and tricky end-of-life issues, I believe the decision should remain with the individual, not the state.

I do not favor abortions, and no one is forcing me to have one. But I understand that this is an extremely important, difficult, and personal issue on which reasonable people can differ, so I do not believe it is correct or right for me to force my belief on others. Especially since I bear none of the responsibilities of raising someone else's unwanted child or indefinitely supporting their brain-dead relative. These are hard decisions the individual must face themselves, based on their own beliefs and values. The state should reserve its laws for areas where they indisputably enforce our shared values, and not intrude into our personal lives as an expression of doubt or to enforce a particular religious view.

Ultimately, we are all responsible for our own actions before our creator. In some areas, that may be the best and only judge to which we should be subject.


Posted by: drossless | September 9, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

IronComments - you are right on! Thank you for your post

Posted by: MathIsHot | September 9, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Hey pro-lifers:

I generally think that the government should cover all medical procedures, including abortions, for people who are in its care - including those on medicaid, S-CHIP, in the military, etc.

However, I sincerely respect that many of you think abortion is murder and life begins at conception. Thus, I may this offer: I will agree to let you opt out of the portion of your taxes which covers these procedures if you let me out of the portion of my taxes will pays for the killing of civilians, or at least children, as 'collateral damage' for your wars around the world.

Do we have a deal?

Posted by: Ermo | September 9, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

What I find amazing is that Palin is supposed to have a degree with a Political Science major yet , before the nomination , when she was asked about the possibility she didn't even know what a VP did . Given that surely she can't be relied on as far as the constitution and people's rights are concerned - redneck or otherwise .

Posted by: Kim | September 9, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

I've never seen a single denial or a single defense for Obama's hatred for the babies as he demonstrated by his stand against the born alive act.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Elizabeth and Joe: You are surrounded, but you are right.

This is the true Obama. Without a hint of conscience and compassion, he stood almost alone in the Illinois Senate one of the few stands he took. Read a bout the throwing of born alive babies into trash cans and turning a deaf ear to their cries and suffering. One of the saddest events in the history of Illinois.

It took hundreds of Illinois Christians to stop that abomination. Read about this Oak Lawn pro-life hero.

http://www.jillstanek.com/bio.html

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

I do NOT understand the GOP. They are the party of borrow and spend! Somehow going into debt is better than paying for things as we go along? Does anyone see what is happening to our financial system right now? The Republican bankers are sup[posed to be the smart guys. They certainly are not acting lik they are on the "Country First" bandwagaon
I am enjoying my tax cuts, but why do my children have to pay for a war that Bush financed with COMMUNIST money?
The best thing Obama can do right now is send everyone a bill for the cost of the Bush war of lies. If it was really worth it- everyone should send in their tax surcharge for the search for WMD with a smile.

Bush=DEBT=McCain.
Sadly, more of the same......

Posted by: Greg in Las Vegas | September 9, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

I hope readers will take the time to review IronComment's commentary here. Yes, its long, but his research is good, and its more than worth reading. I have doubts as to some of his thought about how organized the Neocon crew really is (I don't think its quite as formal or overt as IronComment believes), but beyond that, I concur with his conclusions.

Posted by: Iconoblaster | September 9, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

I guess Juno the movie was so - so but I sure don't want that kind of behavior in the white house. Its time for Palin to go back to Juno.

Posted by: Larry Lewallen | September 9, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I just shake my head everytime I hear Palin's name. I can't believe there are those who would actually vote for the mayor of a town in Alaska one step above the one used for the show Northern Exposure. Voting for this Republican ticket will set this country back 100 years. A soccer mom who thumps on a bible with one hand while polishing her gun with the other. You have to be a moron to support that ticket. Just vote Obama and move this country forward!

Posted by: Dave L. | September 9, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

jhonny, even if he is elected President, Obama will not raise your taxes. Congress raises taxes, not the President. Further, so long as the government continues to spend like it does, it really doesn't MATTER whether the government raises your taxes; either the money in your pocket will deteriorate in value (inflation) OR the government will raise your taxes.... the effect is about the same: you will have less money, or you will have money that is worth less.

As for which party would really reduce spending, the answer is: neither. The Bush administrations pitiful record (no matter which party controlled Congress) is proof enough of that. My Republican Party USED to be the party of fiscal conservatism, but apparently no longer.

Posted by: Iconoblaster | September 9, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse


"Look at the Republican record. Period."

Still waiting for someone to defend the Republican record over the past eight years. No responses yet? Oh, and one catch. In your response you must defend the Republican record without mentioning democrats and/or liberals. Im waiting.

Posted by: jk | September 9, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Oh now Obama cares about the constitution.
Where the hell was he on HR 6304 or HR 1955?
Voting for it.

--------

Yeah, both of these bills are garbage. I am disappointed in Obama for supporting either one, especially 6304, which I view as a total sellout. It is not lost on me, however, that he has spoken against domestic wiretapping, and I haven't forgotten whose ideology implemented it and then tried to justify it in the first place.

The truth is, I disagree strongly with Obama on several issues, and I suppose that's true of any voter and a presidential candidate. Nonetheless, I think Obama will do more to bring us back toward our ideals, and I think McCain may push us away from them. If I could invent the perfect candidate and put him in the race, I'd do that too :)

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

In recent weeks, John McCain and the Republican party have blatantly and without any shame adopted the Democratic campaign theme of “change”. It should be evident to an objective observer that Bush 43 and now McCain and Pailin are mere puppets to the true Republican national party leaders who control their strings. Cheney is one of the few of that inner cabal that have been calling the shots since the Nixon administration. They are in fact a continuation of the Nixon and Ford presidencies with only a disruption during the Carter and Clinton years. Bush 41( Head of the RNC during Nixon,former head of the CIA,VP to Reagan, and president is probably the real leader of this political Cosa Nostra if not a equal partner of this power sharing musical chairs game. His right and left hands have been Dick Cheney(former Sec.of Defense of Bush 41, former White House Chief of staff for Ford) and the other is Donald Rumsfeld(former Sec. of Defense for Ford and Bush 43,former special envoy to the Middle East during Reagan). Another member of this group, more likely a captain if not a full blown boss himself is James Baker (former C.O.S of Reagan, former Under Sec. of Commerce for Ford, former C.O.S and Sec of State for Bush 41, former Sec. of Treasury for Reagan, former chief legal advisor to Bush 43). Another captain or free lance enforcer is Karl Rove a college drop out and campaign manager for both Bush 41 and 43, also for Phil Gram who is McCain’s economic advisor.
Lets look at McCain’s staff of change.
On July 2, 2008, Steve Schmidt was given "full operational control" of McCain's campaign. Steve Schmidt prior to this was a top aide to Dick Cheney and a protégé to Karl Rove. Another advisor is Charles R. Black worked for Ronald Reagan's two Presidential campaigns in 1976 and 1980 and he was a senior political adviser to the 1992 re-election campaign of George H.W. Bush. Another advisor is Randy Scheunemann. He was project director for the Project for the New American Century. A neo-conservative think tank founded by non other than Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Bill Kristol and others in 1996. Other signatories to this group reads like a who’s who of the last 8 years of the republican administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century.
These people have never cared about small town america or “values” All they care about is war profiteering. Many of the signatories have never served in the military. Cheney and Rove both dodged the draft. Look at the statement of principles by the PNAC. Rumsfeld was a good friend of Saddam Huessin in the 80’s Cheney didn’t want Nelson Mandela free. These are the real puppet masters, they throw out the talking points about the left of being elitist and not caring about middle america and these same guys other than Rove have advanced degrees and are worth no less than 10 million dollars. People who support them need to extricate their heads out of Limbaugh and Hannity’s asses and see what is really happening to them. McCain is not his own man he confuses stories of his real life with a book he read “The Gulag Archipelago", in which a fellow prisoner - not a guard - silently drew a cross in the dirt with a stick.” An ironic twist to all this is Eliot A. Cohen, a signatory to the PNAC "Statement of Principles", responded in The Washington Post: "There is no evidence that generals as a class make wiser national security policymakers than civilians. George C. Marshall, our greatest soldier statesman after George Washington, opposed shipping arms to Britain in 1940. His boss, Franklin D. Roosevelt, with nary a day in uniform, thought otherwise. Whose judgment looks better?"[
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2581086/John-McCain-accused-of-plagiarising-Wikipedia-for-speeches.html. Even if you don’t like Obama there is no-way a sane person can want this continued blatant fleecing of our Nation.

Thes are all verifiable facts and can be found just with a google search and wikipedia.

Other than the ultra affluent, how can anyone support the Republican party? When will small town America realize that they are being duped into supporting the ultra-affluent agenda. The talking points of the right are so hypocritical that it becomes laughable. The red meat of the right is the so called Main stream Media as if Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. are not part of it. They demean celebrity status, however they tout one of their greatest presidents(Reagan) was an actor. They say they are the party of patriotism, yet many of the upper echelon of the party have never served, i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Reagan. They say that they care about "Main Street" USA but only bail out the Whales of Wall Street. Yet small town America eat this tripe every year. They don't care about relgion unless it can be used to stir up the base, nor science or technology unless there is a buck to be made. Small town America takes pride on its freedom but yet don't realize that over time we are becoming less free, ie wire tapping and other forms of domestic survelliance. They demean people of intelligence because they know many people of small town America don't have degrees and use it at a fake issue and call people who spent time in academia as elitist when many on the right serve on university boards and have part-time professorships. They say they are against affirmitive action but yet celebrate mediocrity, Bush43 and McCain graduating at the bottom of their classes. Who both came from already well established families and had all the opportunities and connections to excel. Why does small town America believes this is the party for them? Christian conservatives seem to the be the first ones who want to go to war and bomb someone before any diplomacy is tried. Why can't small town America and Christian conservatives realize they are being used as pawns just as much the Islamic fundamentalist are. Islamic fundamentalist come from small town Middle East and given the same kind of talking points as the evangalicals. They want prayer in school, no choice available to women, and believe to the core that their ideas about worship and country are the best. Wake up small town America you are being duped.

Talking about who is more patriotic, symbols, and wearing pins are nothing more than distractions to the real issue of how a few select group of people have held power almost continously for over 30 years. Yes the left has thier own political power groups but none have been so effective at pushing forward an agenda that is fundamentally bad for the U.S. and in a larger view the entire world. I stress again the now defunct PNAC and the AIPAC have been slowly pushing us closer to another World War. Bush41 and et al have been doing this and no one calls them on it. Every Republican admistration has basically the same people recycled since Nixon. Just do a little research and you will see that these people are just pushing this agenda of some kind of Pax Americana and not taking into account that maybe other nations of the world might not like that and if not bomb them.
Many people who support the Republican party, really need to read "1984" by George Orwell and see how we as nation have been inching closer to that type of society. People think this story is about a communist society, but it is more about how a society is kept in a constant state of fear in order for the ruling class to stay in control. Doublespeak, patriotism to the point of frenzy, censhorship, erosion of civil liberties (not respecting the constitution) is happening right in front of us. The cosilidation of government (the executive branch has never been more powerful than ever). No real independent journalism. Cameras on street corners. This may sound like delusional conspiracy stuff, but I implore people to research for themselves to really see what is happening to them. People think this could never happen here in the U.S. but all this has already happening, slowly, icrementally all under the guise of "keeping America safe"

I posted these comments on other political blogs and I send them to you to use them or do with them as you please. I truly hope that Senator Obama will be able to stem this tide of facism and break this cycle of fear that has beem slowly eroding the American dream.

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I hear a bunch of Conservative BS on this site.
The Republicans are afraid of losing their grip on the welfare of this nation. The problem is that they are ruining this nation, in leaps and bounds. The ignorance in the Republican base is astonishing. If they believe what they are writing and saying, they are idiots. They must just be lying. That many idiots couldn't be possible, just by the odds of nature alone.

Posted by: JestMe | September 9, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Joe- I would agree with you on much of what you have said. Those laws are probably based on religious reasoning- but they are still laws. Six states still consider attempted suicide a crime--North and South Dakota, Washington, New Jersey, Nevada, and Oklahoma.
Drugs can harm people for sure. So do guns and alcohol. Yet they are legal.
My point was that arguing "Its my body and I should be able to choose" is not a valid legal point. The government makes laws every day that restrict your choices.
There are other, better arguments that are pro-pro choice.

As for the "legal framework to defend a newborn..." many of the things needed are already defined. As an example, if you attack a woman who is pregnant and she miscarries, you can be charged with manslaughter. (wonder what would happen if she happened to be walking into an abortion clinic when the attack occurred?)

Posted by: Jhonny | September 9, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse


Look at the Republican record. Period.

Posted by: jk | September 9, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

I'm always amazed at how the conservatives suck up the manure that the GOP spreads. They don't bother looking at facts, history or where the country is going. They just follow the Republican talking points, and think that the only way to fix the problems caused by the Republicans is to... elect another Republican. Unbelievable!

Posted by: rev | September 9, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Drossless- nice argument. The problem is that using your logic nothing would ever get done.
As an example, lets say Obama wins the election. I would choose not to have my taxes raised. He will raise my taxes. Therefore he is taking away my right to choose.
WHY IS HE FORCING HIS VIEWS ON ME?!?!

Abortion is a hot topic. Always had been. I remain pro-life. We cannot be positive about when life actually starts, so I prefer to err on the side of caution. For the same reason I am against capital punishment. One innocent person killed in a 1000 is too many.

Posted by: Jhonny | September 9, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

I love it Barack, keep nailing the traiterous, Constitution-hating s.o.b.(s). I am sick of hearing a major, American political party trash the most earnest oath I've taken in my life. I will never waver from my pledge to support and defend the Constitution!!!

Posted by: Victor Shaw | September 9, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Obama, first you will need to explain to Ms. Palin that America HAS a Constitution and then explain to her what it is and how it guides our country so long as we don't have people like the Current Occupant in the Oval Office who want to edit it. Endlessly. Oh, and you may need to read it to her or show her pictures.

Posted by: Vampirella | September 9, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

As for choice in a democracy- you cannot take drugs. You cannot be a prostitute (in most locations), you cannot even legally commit suicide. So the argument that you "Deserve to choose" has no basis. The government makes all kinds of laws that limit your choices.

-------------

The irony here is that while suicide is not illegal in the United States, the only reason it *is* illegal in some places is due to religious influence in law-making. As for the US, there are no laws on the books stating that suicide is illegal. In the case of prostitution, it is again a law driven from religious roots. Arguably, it is also a bad law.

The only exception here is drugs. Drug use is illegal because it endangers the safety of other citizens. There is a lot of argument (good argument, too) about whether drugs that pose no risk to anybody but the user should be legal. I think the most 'American' solution here is to permit drug use when it does not present a risk or burden to the rights of others.

None of these examples demonstrate a reason why the right to choose in the matter of abortion should be infringed. Moreover, the legal framework you would need to extend rights to the unborn is astonishingly complex and invasive. A much more 'American' way to address this problem is to allow individuals to decide for themselves what their beliefs are and let them put those beliefs into practice. It is also arguably more 'American' to address the problem at its roots by trying to prevent the disease rather than legislate the cure. This, incidentally, is Obama's position on the matter.

Also, for the record, I would never, ever consider aborting a baby. That is my own choice.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Greg wrote: "So Obama supports reading the rights of terrorists AND collateral damage to fight the war on terror."

If you read the article, you'll see that Obama has made a fairly obvious distinction between an enemy at large and a captured enemy. I guess it went right over your head.

Posted by: drossless | September 9, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse


Look at the Republican record. Period.

Anyone want to argue this simple point?

Posted by: jk | September 9, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Johhny wrote: "I am not trying to force my opinion on you by voting for a pro-life ticket any more then you are trying to force your opinion on mine by voting pro-choice."

How does giving you a choice force my opinion on you? How is it that your removing my choice is not forcing your opinion on me?

Do you know what the word "choice" means?

The equivalence you attempt to set up is completely faulty, on the very surface of it, without even having to think hard.

Posted by: drossless | September 9, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Oh now Obama cares about the constitution.
Where the hell was he on HR 6304 or HR 1955?
Voting for it.

Stop trying to pander to the moderates we see through the lies of red & blue.
McCain or Obama?
It doesn't matter they're same & their administration will be the same.

Posted by: Pissed | September 9, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

First Obama says we might have captured the wrong guy and then he says to "take them out." The trouble is, when you "take a guy out" you don't know who you are really "taking out" until you analyze the body and do some research. It's common to "take out" the wrong guy. It's known as collateral damage. So Obama supports reading the rights of terrorists AND collateral damage to fight the war on terror. Obama is not helping his cause.

Posted by: Greg | September 9, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Matt- I do not consider my self religious, nor am I spewing any religion at you. I do believe that many abortions are murder. I am not trying to force my opinion on you by voting for a pro-life ticket any more then you are trying to force your opinion on mine by voting pro-choice.

As for choice in a democracy- you cannot take drugs. You cannot be a prostitute (in most locations), you cannot even legally commit suicide. So the argument that you "Deserve to choose" has no basis. The government makes all kinds of laws that limit your choices.

Posted by: Jhonny | September 9, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Sarah Pallin doesn't scare the democrats. She scares America...It is "quite scary to imagine Pallin stepping into the President role if something were to happen to McCain". Ed Koch-ex Mayor of New York...

Give it about one more week.....after all the media and others do their jobs and thoroughly vet this H$0! I can see the McCain camp hiding under a shell screaming "sexism!" Let's see how it all goes...We are in a for one heck of a bumpy ride...Obama supporters keep sending money because his campaign is thoroughly vetting this witch which is something that the McCain camp unfortunately failed to do! It will come back to bite them...Don't believe the hype...

Posted by: Don't believe the HYPE | September 9, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

For all you right wing crazy people who keep saying that the "liberals " want to kill babies I have this for you. We want to have the choice to make the right choice for ourselves. There are plenty of democrates that do not believe in abortion and plenty of republicans that get them. Quit trying to force your views on other people. This is a free country. If you want to spew your radical religous views and force them on people move to Pakistan.

Posted by: matt | September 9, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

One more note on habeas corpus -- Another poster said "We are not allowed to do that to US citizens." Well, you see, that is the problem. What if you ARE a US citizen, picked up by the government, called an 'enemy combatant,' and tossed in GITMO? How do you say "But I'm a US citizen, you can't do this!" ----------- If you've been declared an enemy combatant you, McCain and the 4-person minority would say that you can't raise that question, you can't get any attention when you protest. No one has to listen. ----- That is precisely why the privilege of habeas corpus applies to ANY person that a government imprison. If it doesn't apply to everyone, then the government has no real limitation placed on it. It can simply imprison anyone and say "oh, but he's one of the ones that habeas corpus doesn't apply to so he has no way to be heard -- ignore him." --- So when Obama says that this is a fundamental of Anglo-American law, that it's "who we are" and "what we are protecting," he is absolutely right.

Posted by: Elizabeth | September 9, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Obama is for the rights of terrorists but not for American babies in the womb! Please don't let him around me kids the guy is a nut! He reminds me of a bridge to nowhere!

-------------

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'm leaning toward not.

American babies in the womb aren't protected by the US Constitution because there is something of a de facto understanding that your rights as a person are granted to you when you're born. Moreover, your rights as a citizen are explicitly (this is not even vague) granted to you when you are born in America, (note, not when you are conceived in America).

Sure, there's all kinds of talk about 'life begins at conception' or 'life begins when the baby begins to move'. They are all theological debates, and when you try to convey onto unborn children the rights of a person who has already been born (geez, I'm not even sure there's a word for that), you run into all kinds of legal obstacles. If a woman drinks while she's pregnant, is it child endangerment? If she is careless and falls down the stairs and hurts the baby, is she guilty of a negligence? How do you enforce that? How do you police it?

Where life begins is up for debate. Whether or not the constitution protects the rights of people who are walking around in the world today is *not* up for debate. Shame on anybody who is willing to overlook gross violations of the constitution in order to satisfy their personal beliefs.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Creese- you must have missed the talking points memo of the week. It is no longer "Global Warming"- because the earth is cooling down now. It is "Climate Change".

Dutchy- if FDR had been like Obama, we would have talked with Hitler while he took everything over.

And anti-Obamites- the man is not a muslim. Stop throwing up the same old crap. He semi-attended a christian church for the past 20 years but never listen to the sermons.

Oh and Kate- cute line about Jesus being a community organizer. Does that make him president material? And if it does, do you think he would allow you liberals to keep aborting humans?

Posted by: Jhonny | September 9, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

The Republicans are 21st century mafia. They lie, cheat, disregard the laws of the country, murder innocent people by waging illegal wars, etc. They are despicable. John McCain and Sarah Palin are using their archaic religious philosophy to terrorize people into submission. They are shameless.

Posted by: Azar | September 9, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Obama is for the rights of terrorists but not for American babies in the womb! Please don't let him around me kids the guy is a nut! He reminds me of a bridge to nowhere!

Posted by: Jim R | September 9, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Bush, as confirmed by three US congressmen present, referred to the US Constitution as just 'a (expletive) piece of paper.' McCain and Palin are on this same, frightening, lawless bandwagen (aided by the silent mainstream press).

The completely uneducated Palin may make the average American in desperate economic straights feel better about themselves. But Palin will just be yet another showperson reading speeches. Do you think American business interests will actually let such a person make decisions? You can be sure that the folks actually making decisions, well out of sight, will all have law and business degrees from elite colleges. And they will not give a hoot about your interests or your religion.

Posted by: Pete | September 9, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

RIGHT ON, ELIZABETH!!! Great comment!

Posted by: kevin | September 9, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Wait till January Barack and John will be in charge and will be looking up the address of that Cave to knock on....and you can be sure Miranda will be left at home.
----------------------------------------------

Dear Scott,

You are delusional if you think John McCain at 72 years of age is going to manage to climb mountains, go into a cave, and personally kick OBL's ass. I mean, seriously. What a warped sense of reality if frail, stumped over McCain is your idea of a super hero.

Posted by: Katie | September 9, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

If the republicans intend to run on personality, Sarah Palin and her questionable background will shortly come up to haunt the GOP ticket. The fact that she does not think that global warming is human produced in part and that she wants to teach creationism is a scary, scary fact that should alarm anyone with any sense.

Posted by: creese | September 9, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

THANK GOD he is focusing on this!!! The Supreme Court's ruling on habeas corpus (that is, the thinness of the majority) is the most frightening, threatening thing that has happened to this country - and no one seems to care. Palin's utter IGNORANCE when she made that comment took my breath away and confirmed my worst fears. ---- Habeas corpus is NOT a 'right' like the 'right to remain silent'etc; it's not found in the Bill of Rights. It is a limitation on government that has been recognized as basic to all civilized governments for centuries; it is recognized in Article II of the Constitution under "Limits on the Legislature" ------ Think about it. What was the worst thing about the Sadaam Hussein regime? To many, it was the fact that individuals, many of them law-abiding and entirely innocent, could be picked up, put in jail, and never heard from again. ---- THAT is what habeas corpus is designed to prevent, and without habeas corpus any government can become a Sadaam regime in the wrong hands. ----- Habeas corpus allows anyone who is imprisoned by a government to have a fair hearing before a court to determine if that imprisonment is legally justified. Everyone. The Bush administration (and 4 members of the Supreme Court) say that it "doesn't apply" when the person imprisoned is an enemy combatant ..... but that is the whole point! They might not be, they may be totally unconnected to any action of the enemy! Habeas corpus "applies" to the government. Without habeas corpus, you - or I - or your next door neighbor - or a tourist from Japan - could be picked up tomorrow, called "an enemy combatant," and put in prison for the rest of their life without any avenue to have a court look at the reasons for the imprisonment, no way to have a judge determine if there was legal authority for the confinement to continue. Only a very, very small percent of those who employ a habeas corpus petition are actually released from custody ... but that small number, the opportunity of any prisoner to be among that small number, is what makes the difference between a free, lawful country and one run by someone like Sadaam Hussein. ----------- But John McCain described the recent Supreme Court decision holding (as our Constitution provides) that *anyone* imprisoned by our government may bring a writ of habeas corpus as the "worst decision in the history of the Court"!!! ..... If he and Palin (who is more right-wing than McCain) wins, they will be appointing justices to replace the elderly ones who were in the 5-4 majority on that decision. The American people can't say they weren't warned -- the only question is whether they care enough to pay attention. This is how democracies are toppled: through citizen inattention and indifference.

Posted by: Elizabeth | September 9, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

The Republicans are running scared...really folks...when you are running for two years on experience and suddenly start using the change mantra that you mocked without stating ONE thing that will change you are scared and using the Presidential election as a popularity contest. The American people will not be fooled and Sarah Palin invalidates herself daily by trying to diss Barack Obama and his quote about the constituition shows she's not match for our next CIC. Someone should tell her to quit while the quittin is good...

Posted by: Tasha | September 9, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Right on Barack! We can't have that liar Palin and her running mate whatshisname in the oval office. I was born and raised in the same kind of church she was, only I escaped! I'll take the chance of him being a sleeper muslim over Sarah Palin and what I know about her church;they're crazy endtimers who want to bring about the third world war so Jesus will return! It is in their doctrine! They are as nuts or nuttier than AlQaeda!

Posted by: meowomon | September 9, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Folks, as Dutch right wing liberal visitor I'm shocked to read comments mostly from Republicans. Asking myself are these representatives of the same USA who liberated Europe from the Nazis in 45.

----------

Hey dutchy1,

Speaking of WWII, you guys over there owe us one, right? We might need some Normandy-style action here in another 10 years if things keep going the way they are. Somebody needs to have our back :)

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Do you take them out before or after you read them your rights? The poll at http://www.bop-o-rama.com is still showing a strong lead for McCain. Team Obama does seem to be making a move.

Posted by: acarponzo | September 9, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Maybe he should bring up her affair. Or any other of the numerous scandals. http://www.hotpres.com

Dont forget about those. Seems to me Hillary clinton didnt have nearly this much baggage.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

How stupid are all you right wingnuts? Let me put this as simply as possible so all the junior college (not) educated people like Sarah Palin can understand: Obama is not worried about giving special rights to terrorists - the point is, we often don't know if they are terrorists. By our govt's own admission, we scoop up scores of people at a time, ship them off to Gitmo, and try to sort it out later. Even the Bush administration admits that MOST of the people at Gitmo may well be innocent. That is why there are hundreds of people in there for more than 5 years that have NEVER BEEN CHARGED with any crime. Most will eventually be released having been found completely innocent, but with 5 plus years of their lives stolen. Are you proud of that?

We are not allowed to do that to US citizens. But, its ok to do that to say, Afghans? Or Brits? Or Aussies? Don't you think they deserve habeas corpus? And, even if you actually don't care about the rights of the innocent just because they happen not to be American, then think about if from the US self-interest position. We are never going to win the war on terror if we don't have the help and support of the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan etc. How much success are we going to have if we treat their citizens with less respect that we treats pets in this country?

Posted by: jjdnyc | September 9, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Has anyone seen where Palin couldnt even quote the Amendments, http://www.theveep.com

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Folks, as Dutch right wing liberal visitor I'm shocked to read comments mostly from Republicans. Asking myself are these representatives of the same USA who liberated Europe from the Nazis in 45. Young Americans and others given their life's to fight fascism and terror and defending the greatest value there is; the constitution of a democracy, mother of the free.
Not understanding the comments from Obama is an insult to all Allies from WWII who fought and died in combat. Not understanding Obama means puts you in the same corner as the evil dictatorial governments some of you are so afraid for.
If you do not understand this look inside the USA and define where you are today. Two biggest mortgage banks are falling and government depths are exploding. A VP which does not even know these were commercial banks! Is this a joke, give me a break please. Don't flush yourselves down the drain as you taxpayers will pay the bill at the end and believe me, the bill will be tremendously high.
Do not change but than face the truth that economically the USA is overrun by countries like India in just a few decades.

Please do not let it happen to the nation I respect as lonely global defenders of the good and the free. Grab this responsible position back and demonstrate to the free world that the good old American values still count.
Wake up in time, focus on the important issues and make the right vote for yourselves, your (grand)children, your country and the world.
If not let the last constitutional defender turn off the lights and put the world in the dark.

Posted by: dutchy1 | September 9, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Didn't Obama vote for FISA? promised faith based funds to churches?
seems to me that Mr Constitutional Law professor needs to check his platform first
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/the-flip-flop-list/

Posted by: Robbedvoter | September 9, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Will the media report it when the Obama girls follow the dreams of their father and start dealing crack out of the White House?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

So now not only is Obama Jesus Christ and MLK, but he's the Constitution too?

Posted by: wow | September 9, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Ms. Palin in particular should thank her lucky stars we have people in power who respect the constitutional rights of accused. Otherwise, they would just throw, say, politicians suspected of the crime of corruption? in jail without first giving them due process, including the option of having a trial. We could just send her directly to sentencing if she thinks the constitution is so silly. Bring it on, baby.
Obama is the only choice.

Posted by: gotchya | September 9, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

What will McCain and Palin Bring to the White House?

More of the Same; Scandal, Corruption and Ongoing Investigations--

Enough, Americans have suffered enough. We can not afford another four more years of the same

Posted by: Sims | September 9, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Sadly, this is what it all comes down to:

Do we want the rest of our constitution ripped up and trampled upon? Do we want more presidents like Bush, and vices, like Cheney, wiping themselves with our constitution, destroying our rights?

Posted by: jeffp | September 9, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

"A guy who says the Second Ammendment DOESN'T guarantee the right to keep and bear arms says someone else is ignoring the Constitution?
That would be funny if he weren't serious."

Liar. Obama never said what you have stated.

Obama has said that the right is to bear arms, meaning pistols/shotguns/rifles. NOT TANKS/ROCKET LAUNCHERS/GRENADES/PIPE BOMBS/AK-47s.

If you want to be vague enough, you could argue that a nuclear weapon is "arms" and everyone could have a nuke in their backyard.

Obama wants to better define the loosely translated word "arms."

Posted by: Tim | September 9, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

What a stud! I love this guy. He's going to make mince meat out of "these people."

Posted by: b | September 9, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

I wish these redneck, hateful, people would just stop blogging. Stupidity just can't be bought, but it can be seen all over these posts...

Posted by: Tracy | September 9, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Look, America can be a scary place when we let our fear get ahead of the law. We give people Miranda rights not to protect the criminals, but to preserve our democracy. In the same manner, terrorist suspects have access to habeus corpus only so that our democracy might continue. If were just going to punish people without having to present evidence, with no trial and few, if any witnesses, we might as well declare ourselves a facist regime. America is about reining in power so that we all have someone to answer to. We have no king, and no secret police and I want to keep it that way.

Posted by: Uzzoma Peter Lane | September 9, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

A guy who says the Second Ammendment DOESN'T guarantee the right to keep and bear arms says someone else is ignoring the Constitution?
That would be funny if he weren't serious.

Posted by: tre | September 9, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

"Sen. Barack Obama delivered an impassioned defense of the Constitution and the rights of terrorism suspects tonight..." --'Wow, what about the right to life for the unborn. He is more concerned about the rights of terrorists than he is for the rights of the innocent unborn (who are human and American)."

What about the rights of the unfertilized eggs! Every month women commit murder!

Whenever a teenager jerks off he kills thousands!

Whenever a siamese twin cuts of his tumor sized sister, ITS MURDER!

Whenever you take a shower you scrub off living skin! MURDERER!

And terrorists! Once someone is a terrorist they are no longer human right? I have an answer! Lets call unborn children terrorists, that way when we kill them we can pretend that we are helping america.

Posted by: Tim | September 9, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

wonder what BHO learned in law school...and taught there...".."My position has always been clear: If you've got a terrorist, take him out," Obama said. "Anybody who was involved in 9/11, take 'em out."

"Take em out"...sounds like W and his warmongering ilk and agenda.

but then BHO has monster bloodletting advisors like "starving Iraqis was "worth it" Madame Harpy Albright and Ayatollah and Ortega Bros installer Dr. Brzezinski whispering in his ear(which one is the "angel"???).

The Orwellian "War on Terror"(sort of like War against All)and its UNCONSTITUTIONAL enforcement ie NO Dec of War INVASION and Soviet like OCCUPATION of BHO "focus" Afghanistan and WMD laden! Iraq go hand in hand with the American Enabling (PATRIOT)Act so enamored by BHO and BOTH Parties.

BHO's "take em out" also mocks the Constitution. McManiac and unfortunately Palin dont have a monopoly on warmongering and mocking.

Posted by: Chris Bieber | September 9, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

wonder what BHO learned in law school...and taught there...".."My position has always been clear: If you've got a terrorist, take him out," Obama said. "Anybody who was involved in 9/11, take 'em out."

"Take em out"...sounds like W and his warmongering ilk and agenda.

but then BHO has monster bloodletting advisors like "starving Iraqis was "worth it" Madame Harpy Albright and Ayatollah and Ortega Bros installer Dr. Brzezinski whispering in his ear(which one is the "angel"???).

The Orwellian "War on Terror"(sort of like War against All)and its UNCONSTITUTIONAL enforcement ie NO Dec of War INVASION and Soviet like OCCUPATION of BHO "focus" Afghanistan and WMD laden! Iraq go hand in hand with the American Enabling (PATRIOT)Act so enamored by BHO and BOTH Parties.

BHO's "take em out" also mocks the Constitution. McManiac and unfortunately Palin dont have a monopoly on warmongering and mocking.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

The GOP wants to hijack the conversation. Do NOT fall for it. The GOP wants the Democrats to be afraid and wants us to be running around in “fear, fury and dread” - and talking about Palin. They want the conversation to be about whether Palin can skin a moose and how horrible it is that her 17-year old is pregnant.

Don’t fall for it. This election is about BIG issues – two wars, $720 million dollars going to the Iraq war DAILY, thousands unemployed, thousands of Americans without health insurance and more. THIS is what we need to talk about. THIS is the change we need to ensure happens.

Yes, Sarah Palin is a rash, incompetent, and altogether devastating choice for Vice President. Ms. Palin's political views are in every way a slap in the face.

The republicans have failed America, they will fail to give us any more years of Bush.

Bush/Cheney/McCain
No More Years

Posted by: thebob.bob | September 9, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

"Sen. Barack Obama delivered an impassioned defense of the Constitution and the rights of terrorism suspects tonight..." --Wow, what about the right to life for the unborn. He is more concerned about the rights of terrorists than he is for the rights of the innocent unborn (who are human and American).

Posted by: Rebecca | September 9, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

>>I bet America needs a lecture on the constitution from someone named Barak Hussien Obama
Turns out you'd be right.
The problem with most conservatives is they don't love the United States. Oh they make grand gestures about loving the flag, their "country", it's history but in fact the US is nothing more than that constitution they sneer at. That's the foundation of the US government and therefore the foundation of the country.
If you want a theocracy, move to Iran. We're not theocracy and the constitution precludes us from adopting a state religion. If you can't accept that then roll off, there are a lot of other countries, I'm sure you can find one that practice the voodoo you find so appealing.

Posted by: Dijetlo | September 9, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

I simply cannot believe that America is falling into the same George Bush trap... How in God's name can anyone not separate the fact that John McCain VOTED 90% the same as George Bush?
How can people not get that factually, there is NO DIFFERENCE TODAY between McCain's agenda and the policies of George Bush?

I read all the non-sensical distractions and no one speaking about the issues... this is not a soap opera folks, this is real life... yours and mine and what we are facing in the next four years. Get your heads out of the political spins and LOOK AT THE RECORDS !!!!

Posted by: nerakami | September 9, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

I don't think we read our enemies their rights in the Revolutionary War, nor the War of 1812, nor the Spanish American War, nor.........

Posted by: Robocop | September 9, 2008 12:04 AM


We weren't a nation during the Revolutionary War, so the lack of Habeus Corpus in American law is understandable. However, that rule did exist in British law.

As to the war of 1812 what proof do you offer that Habeus Corpus was not employed by citizens or others. Remember, Habeus would not apply to uniformed soldiers of an invading state.

I noticed you failed to mention the American Civil War. Lincoln, the only great Republican President, did unilaterally disregard Habeus Corpus. Lincoln was stopped by the United States Supreme Court which in effect said. The writ of Habeus Corpus shall not be infringed while the courts (Federal) are open for business.

This is almost the exact effect of the ruling by this most current Supreme Court when the current administration was rebuffed soundly for its violation of the Constitution.

As for the Spanish American War, there were no Spanish soldiers sent to America. So, the writ would not be involved.

The only arguement on this topic is why does the right find itself so fearful of the Federal Judiciary. Do you really think that any Federal Judge trying a case against a terrorist, would simply let them walk away. That philosophy, is for the birds..

Posted by: Thatsnuts | September 9, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

It's time we Democrats took a lesson from John McCain's acceptance speech, "Stand up and fight"

It's time to fight back. Fight back now. Fight back hard. Fight against the lies. Fight against the half truths. Fight against those who think "community organizers" aren't performing a service to their country. Fight against those on the right who want to form a new theocracy. Fight back Barack.

Posted by: clink | September 9, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

agio is an idiot

Posted by: vince | September 9, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

I believe in our constitution and therefore I will vote for the man who will uphold our constitution. Barack Obama.

Barack is the only candidate who has been honest.

Posted by: MargaretO | September 9, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

TO: Mssrs. CHERTOFF, MUKASEY, PAULSON, GATES, McCONNELL, MUELLER

"GOV'T AGENCIES SUPPORT DOMESTIC TERRORISM"
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/government-agencies-support-domestic-torture-and-gang-stalking-says-noted-nowpublic-com-columnist

What do you know about this, and what are you doing about it?

Posted by: scrivener | September 9, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

"Tim....I kept it simple so you would understand it.
And as far as commenting on your "facts", I learned long ago that if you argue with a fool you too look like a fool."

I must be a fool to think that you would have the willpower to actually listen to logic and reason. You simply insult what you can not argue with. The fact is that I am right and you are not educated enough to fight the facts.

Please, insult me more. Maybe if you keep insulting me all-of-a-sudden you will be right and McCain will win the elect.

You are sad, go back to school.

Posted by: Tim | September 9, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

funny to read.. both democrats and republicans have been desecrating the U.S constitution. Only person that has voted with the constitution and is a strict constitutionalist is Ron Paul

Posted by: woo | September 9, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

It's frustrating to see our supposedly educated and "potential future" country leaders not understand what the Constitution is about like Palin and Rudy.

Well, what can you expect from a person who went to 5 different colleges over 6 years to get a journalism degree.

Posted by: Obama-Junkie | September 9, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

"Terrorists have no rights. Palin isn't the one who mocks the Constitution. Obama mocks the Constitution. The audacity of accusing someone else of the wrong that he's doing!"

This is the kind of viewpoint that led us to Gitmo and Abu Graib. Ready, fire, aim.

Posted by: agio | September 9, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

"This is a war we're fightng, not some endless intellectual exercise on a criminal's rights. Democrats have made it as clear as they dare that they do not consider us to be at war with internationally-located radicalized Islamists. The rest of us know better. "

What evidence do you have of this? Everything I've seen shows that Democrats want to stop terrorists by attacking them in afghanistan WHERE THEIR LEADERS RESIDE.

How can yo simply make something up and spread it as truth and still sleep at night?

Posted by: Tim | September 9, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Tim....I kept it simple so you would understand it.
And as far as commenting on your "facts", I learned long ago that if you argue with a fool you too look like a fool.

Posted by: easyenough | September 9, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

This is just crazy. I am soooo turned of by the Republican party it's ridiculous...The lies, the deceipt, the pettiness and immaturity is out of control. First of all stop talking about how much is unkown about Barak Obama and asking what he has done. If you had interest, you would do some research. I certainly did some on McCain. You all are a bunch of hypocrites. It's okay for Sarah Palin to come out of nowhere and no one is supposed to question who she is or where she came from. Every time someone asks her a question, the GOP tries to play the sex card. If the McCain camp can't handle anyone asking her a question, they shouldn't have picked her. This is going to get ugly and that ugly speech of hers is not going to work in a debate.

The hypocracy here is just sickening. If Michelle Obama was a part of some group that wanted to succeed from the union, we would never hear the end of it. If Joe Biden had a pregnant teenage daughter, we would never hear the end of it. If Joe Biden gave a speech like that comedy routine Sarah Palin performed at the RNC, we would never hear the end of it. Not to mention, like a broken reacord she is going from state to state repeating that same routine. I don't fall for this. I will never be bullied into voting based on fear, war-mongering, not being close to God or unpatriotic. This all we hear from the GOP, election after election. This routine is soo tired.

The GOP could have picked a dog for McCains running mate and they would have talked about how easy it was to train her and how nice her coat is and that she nursed a special needs puppy instead of rejecting it...Clearly, qualifications and experience mean nothing. Talk about a double standard.

What you Palinbots don't realize is that you have actually alienated and turned of a lot of men and women by plastering her all over the campaign (as if she is running for president). This is an insult to women and the American people. I can't beleive how many dummies there are that fall for this mess. Oh and by the way, I wouldn't put too much stock in the polls. Kerry was ahead in the polls by 15 points and we all know what happened there.

Posted by: WOMAN FOR OBAMA | September 9, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

easy enough,

A weak mind always resorts to insults when it has no answers.

You obviously have nothing with substance to say, so keep why are you commmenting? If you are not intellegent enough to talk policies, visit www.johnMccain.com and find some policies that will help the country.

Your insults only make you look inferior to me.

Posted by: Tim | September 9, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

"Space-wasting Red States and rural isolationists are going to place this country even further down the path of ruin. Brilliant people here, I wish you idiots would go back to Europe."

As a European I have to say: actually, yeah. We Europeans can then place them in the appropriate mental healthcare institution so that nobody but psychiatric nurses ever have to deal with them again. Then the rest of the world can get on with sorting out the world economy and the national debt. That'd work...

Posted by: Annnnonymous | September 9, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Foxbourgh

I don't think Dems should talk about killing children, Abortion anyone. The Audacity indeed.

Posted by: think Foxbourgh | September 9, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Tim=Idiot

Posted by: easyenough | September 9, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Whoa, first Obama uses up Hillary and then dumps her and picks Joe Biden instead...

And now he's vouching for the bad guys?

What's really going on?

Posted by: Heath | September 9, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

GOOD OBAMA, GO AFTER THESE MANIACS...!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

OR it might be Barack the bomb-thrower after all.

--------

Hey, you're right. It could be *either*. We should develop a system by which we collect suspects and put them on trial to determine their guilt or innocence. We should then elect leaders who are committed to that system of justice, since it is the only safe way to remove the 'OR' from the question you're posing.

Obviously on the battle field, or in the case when the person is a known threat, we can proceed directly to the 'take them out' phase that Obama refers to. But when we are collecting citizens from around the world and merely suspecting them of being a threat, they deserve the opportunity to make the case that they aren't the threat we think they are.

Honestly, that is a core American ideal. How can we even be arguing whether or not this is the right thing to do? Obama is speaking nothing but pure, common sense based on fundamental American ideology, and you're looking at him like he has two heads.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

On Palm Sunday these people were joyfully praising the messiah. About a week later, they were saying "crucify him, crucify him!".

It doesnt take much to sway these people.

Posted by: forget about change | September 9, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

"We don't always catch the right person," he said. "We may think it's Mohammed the terrorist, but it might be Mohammed the cab driver. You might think it's Barack the bomb-thrower, but it might be Barack the guy running for president."

OR it might be Barack the bomb-thrower after all.

This is a war we're fightng, not some endless intellectual exercise on a criminal's rights. Democrats have made it as clear as they dare that they do not consider us to be at war with internationally-located radicalized Islamists. The rest of us know better.

Posted by: bluecollarbytes | September 9, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, a logical flaw right there. How do you know you've got a terrorist and that the person in question thus has no rights?

--------

Hey, stop trying to inject logic into the argument. That will only confuse the issue!

What you're seeing (and have been seeing for the last 7 years) is the pitchfork-bearing mob that 9/11 created. We are mindlessly rampaging, throwing all of our reasoning aside, and tossing our principles in the can because it just feels better to make a fist and start swinging at whatever looks to us like a terrorist. The comment Palin made at the convention is intended to take advantage of those feelings and turn them into votes. If our senses ever come back to us, we will regret these years very, very deeply.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

yobilloj wrote: I wonder why Obama is always so impassioned whenever the subject is about the thrashing of terrorists?
___________________________________________

Is it me or did I read where Obama stated that If they see Osama or anyone of the terrorist associated with 9-11 to "take them out".

I guess Obama doesn't quite understand constitutional law like you do. I know its kinda difficult for you to use your own analysis of a situation unless someone tells you what to think, but there are 2 different scenarios here.

Terrorist actively fighting and captured during wartime do not get the same rights as civilians "suspected" of terrorist activities.

Posted by: BigAce | September 9, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

"Terrorists have no rights. Palin isn't the one who mocks the Constitution. Obama mocks the Constitution. The audacity of accusing someone else of the wrong that he's doing!"

So when someone commits a crime in the USA, like say, bombing a building, they are terroists and have no rights?

So you can rape and murder and have the right to a trial, but if it involves a bomb you are a terrorists and we can through out the constitution?

The people that caused 9/11 committed a crime against america. They should be shipped to america and put on trial. When they are proven guilty they should hang.

ANYTHING LESS IS ANTI-AMERICAN.

Posted by: Tim | September 9, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

"OBAMA: "The reason that you have this principle is not to be soft on terrorism. It's because that's who we are. That's what we're protecting," Obama said, his voice growing louder and the crowd rising to its feet to cheer. "Don't mock the Constitution. Don't make fun of it. Don't suggest that it's not American to abide by what the founding fathers set up. It's worked pretty well for over 200 years."

I wonder why Obama is always so impassioned whenever the subject is about the thrashing of terrorists?"

Well, if you do not know, I will tell you.

Terrorists are people who hate an idea. The idea terrorists hate about America is that we are spoil and hypocrits. "How can America say that they are great when they kill inoccents and torture?"

Obama realizes that irrational anger told terrorists, without giving them the rights that we would give any American human, ONLY CREATES MORE TERRORISTS.

The only way to fight terrorism is to take out the terrorist in a way that DOES NOT PRODUCE MORE TERROISTS.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 9:18 AM | Report abuse

11th Way in which Sarah Pain is exactly like George W. Bush:

11. She believes that attacking Iraq was "God's will."

Posted by: Skeptic21 | September 9, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

"Terrorists have no rights. Palin isn't the one who mocks the Constitution. Obama mocks the Constitution. The audacity of accusing someone else of the wrong that he's doing!"

Yeah, a logical flaw right there. How do you know you've got a terrorist and that the person in question thus has no rights?

Posted by: Jacob (Denmark) | September 9, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Who is obama? What is a street organizer?
What have you done for America or Americans Obama?

unlike McCain who has a wonderful record of service to this great nation and a true american hero.
...

We do not trust you to protect us from Fundamentalist Islamic Terrorist.

Posted by: richard

First of all, McCain is no hero. He's a guy who wrecked a bunch of taxpayers' planes in training, then rained bombs on civilians in a war that should never have been waged and which has haunted the U.S. for almost fifty years. He claims to have been shot down, but with a track record of crashing planes, who knows? After all, the Pentagon lied about Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch--and McCain's father was an admiral. Second, McCain has been censured for ethics violations by his colleagues in the Senate, and that takes some lowdown behavior. So name anything John McCain has done that is positive, and then show how anything he did that was positive, he hasn't backtracked on. Who pays you, by the way?

Posted by: edwcorey | September 9, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

"Terrorists have no rights. Palin isn't the one who mocks the Constitution. Obama mocks the Constitution. The audacity of accusing someone else of the wrong that he's doing!"

Even if you believe this, what about the ones that are wrongly accused? Take away habeus corpus, and you take away a large foundation of our democracy.

Posted by: Evan | September 9, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Dollars to donuts, Scott and Jake D voted for George Bush twice.

10 Ways in Which Sarah Palin Is *Exactly* Like George W. Bush

1) Like Bush, she is completely against a woman's right to choose (in fact, she exceeds Bush in that she is against a woman's right to choose even in cases of rape or incest;

2) Like Bush, she opposes stem cell research to prevent fatal diseases in men, women and children;

3) Like Bush, supports the teaching of Creationism alongside Evolution in public schools;

4) Like Bush, does not believe that Global Warming is man made;

5) Like Bush, has supported abstinence-only sex education methods that have proven ineffective;

6) Like Bush, has virtually no foreign policy experience prior to running for national office--(in Palin's case, despite a 72-year old, chronically ill running mate)

7) Like Bush, has engaged in conduct that has resulted in current government investigation of her actions;

8) Like Bush, has made statements which indicate lack of knowledge of basic elements of the office they are running for (Palin, July 2008: "What exactly does the Vice President do everyday?");

9) Like Bush, has been sequestered to prevent her being asked questions that she has not yet been prepared to answer;

10) Like Bush, talks like a reformer--yet in her actions (i.e., relying on lobbying, supporting the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it) acts in the most typical, all-too-familiar fashion.

Posted by: Skeptic21 | September 9, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

OBAMA: "The reason that you have this principle is not to be soft on terrorism. It's because that's who we are. That's what we're protecting," Obama said, his voice growing louder and the crowd rising to its feet to cheer. "Don't mock the Constitution. Don't make fun of it. Don't suggest that it's not American to abide by what the founding fathers set up. It's worked pretty well for over 200 years."

I wonder why Obama is always so impassioned whenever the subject is about the thrashing of terrorists?

Posted by: yobilloj | September 9, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

To foxborough:

The difference between abortion and the loss of life as the result of the war is that a war is a state action that actively pursues death. Abortion is a private action that is protected by the right of reproductive choice. I am a Catholic and also believe that life begins at conception - but I do not want to waste my time fighting a court case that - even if it was overturned in the Supreme Court - would not lower the amount of abortions in this country. For those of us on BOTH sides of the aisle who think the private action of abortion is a shame and horror, why don't we focus on actions that will actually diminish the number of abortions in this country - like fighting the crime of rape, like vigorously prosecuting crimes of incest, like lowering the poverty rate, like growing the middle class, like teaching a fully comprehensive sex education class in our public schools, like subsidizing birth control through tax rebates or making it covered under health insurance? Those things make a difference. Overturning Roe v. Wade would just allow you to sit comfortable in your home and turn a blind eye to the heartache going on around you that makes these young women feel as if their only option is abortion. Our goal should not be to cut off that option and make them feel like they have NONE. Our goal should be to actively fight the conditions that statistics tell us normally lead to abortions - in short, making it very clear to every young woman in this country that there are more options than early pregnancy and there are other options besides abortion.

Posted by: Steve | September 9, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Damn, the Dems are worried!!! LMAO!

Posted by: Thomas | September 9, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

foxborough

a vote for republican is a vote to kill more children.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: matt | September 8, 2008 10:18 PM
"Obama? Why did you trash american flags after your convention?"

How true is that? Why is the proof not posted?


Posted by: yobilloj | September 9, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Charlie- Apparently you represent the minority- 90% with Bush is more middle of the road than 97% with Reid/Pelosi...So say Independents today by 52-37.............. Now back to your regular programming of "castastrop(h)es and shams"...

Posted by: Scott | September 9, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

the truth is, the last eight years have been all about assaults on the constitution which is why so many of us are clamoring for change. By caving in to the religious right for electoral support, the Republicans are once again embracing the mantra that got us the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. I think Obama needs to stand up and ROAR for all of us who are tired of a government that panders on "God, guns and gays" instead of addressing real issues!

Posted by: dch | September 9, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

"Those of you on the Blog who criticize Palin for being Pro-Life seem to forget we, under the guise of Pro-Choice, kill over 1800 babies every day. How many months did it take us to equal that same body count in Iraq?"

So if you get it made illegal, then what?

A woman who lives through a back alley abortion (oh, they will happen, don't worry) should get life for murder right? Maybe the death sentence because there seems to be a double standard there...

A women who lives through a back alley abortion but isn't successful should be in prison for attempted murder? When the baby is born which one of you is going to take care of it?

We've already seen that if a pregnant women gets in a car accident and the baby miscarries that it's a variation of manslaughter so lets keep going.

A women who miscarries through no fault of her own should be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

Is a women who knows she miscarries in the first few weeks of pregnancy but keeps trying to have a child (because she wants one) a serial killer?

Birth control comes up a lot too, so if the pro-lifers gets that one lets call it voluntary manslaughter.

So there you have it. I haven't actually seen what the punishments should be for the women who have abortions, but applying our current legal code should to make them have the same stature should work pretty good for you. Right?

Posted by: Alright pro-lifers | September 9, 2008 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Terrorists have no rights. Palin isn't the one who mocks the Constitution. Obama mocks the Constitution. The audacity of accusing someone else of the wrong that he's doing!

Posted by: James Broadwater | September 9, 2008 8:57 AM | Report abuse

'McCain Now Winning Majority of IndependentsMajority of independents now prefer him over Obama'

My question is why? They haven't offered anything yet. Afraid of the press. Canned answers. Can't think for themselves. Meat puppets but all. Same sh't different administration. No way, no how. Liars. Too old. Too young. McCain is a dumb ass. Do independents want dumb asses running the show? I doubt it. The poll on Nov 4th is the one I'll be watching.

Posted by: Tommy | September 9, 2008 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Don't people realize how funny it is that Obama is attacking Palin and not McCain? Is McCain too much of a man for him?

Check this out. Obama apparently is another Dan Quayle. Upper Left.

http://myrealitytelevision.com/special-coverage-us-elections-2008/

What was beautiful about the Republican choice of Palin is it totally distracted Obama.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Please keep up this Partisan bickering- The Independents are watching-

----------

Any independents who are comfortable with Palin's views on abortion are not independents at all, or at least not moderate independents. If you can align yourself with the idea of banning abortion in the case of rape and incest, I think there is nothing that can be said by any democrat anywhere at any time that would sway your vote to their side.

Personally, my hope is that people just aren't really informed about her positions yet and that many of them will back off when they realize what she actually stands for.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

GET EDUCATED.

www.johnmccain.com
www.barackobama.com

Compare the policies yourself. Ignore EVERYTHING the candidates say about each other, and read where each candidate wants to take the country. Do not fall in line with political tricks.

Posted by: Be An American. | September 9, 2008 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Scott is back!

Everyone talk policies while he talks smears.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Funny thing, I'm an independent and must say that I wouldn't vote for mccain/palin ticket if they were the only ones running and someone paid me to.

It looks to me like they'd be a catastrope for our country and a sham.

Posted by: Charlie | September 9, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Please keep up this Partisan bickering- The Independents are watching-

Gallup 9-9-08

"September 9, 2008
McCain Now Winning Majority of IndependentsMajority of independents now prefer him over Obama, 52% to 37%USA Democrats Election 2008 Government and Politics Republicans Americas Northern America by Lydia Saad
PRINCETON, NJ -- John McCain's 6 percentage-point bounce in voter support spanning the Republican National Convention is largely explained by political independents shifting to him in fairly big numbers, from 40% pre-convention to 52% post-convention in Gallup Poll Daily tracking."

Posted by: Scott | September 9, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

"Those of you on the Blog who criticize Palin for being Pro-Life seem to forget we, under the guise of Pro-Choice, kill over 1800 babies every day. How many months did it take us to equal that same body count in Iraq?"

Sure, ignore the rest of the 1000 reasons Obama is better then McCain, and lets focus on the one you care about. Stealing the rights from other people.

I do not beleive in abortion. I DO beleive in freedom. I can tell a woman that she can not have an abortion just as much as I can tell a woman that she can not have a boob job. If it is in their body, then it is theirs.

I assume that you don't want people to get seperated from simese twins because the twin might die right? I guess I shouldn't shoot my load of sperm in the toilet because that is mass homicide right?

You can use gross images and the extreme examples, but I only need one example.

Rape. McCain and Palin say that a woman pregnant because of RAPE and INCEST can NOT have an abortion. Leave it to the republicans to punish a women more for something that she is innocent of.

I have a suggestion for you. Lets make abortion illegal ONLY IF we make loud mouth preaching to people who dont want to hear it illegal.

While we are taking away freedoms, lets make only one religion, Muslim. There are more Muslims then catholics, so their religion wins. While we are at it, we can also do away with freedom of privacy. That way the government can break down your door and arrest you just in case you might be preaching of thinking about abortion.

Screw it! Lets just make McCain king, and he can rule like King John.

Posted by: Tim | September 9, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Those of you on the Blog who criticize Palin for being Pro-Life seem to forget we, under the guise of Pro-Choice, kill over 1800 babies every day. How many months did it take us to equal that same body count in Iraq?

--------

Think of how many lives are lost each month when so many ova go unfertilized. Why, at least 98% of women in America are killing a baby *every month*. Just because it doesn't have hands and feet, that doesn't mean it is not alive. Just because it isn't yet a fully formed person doesn't mean it shouldn't have rights. Just because this argument makes no sense whatsoever, that's no reason not to compare it to the deaths of tens of thousands of civilian men, women, and children in Iraq.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse

Those of you on the Blog who criticize Palin for being Pro-Life seem to forget we, under the guise of Pro-Choice, kill over 1800 babies every day. How many months did it take us to equal that same body count in Iraq?

Posted by: foxborough | September 9, 2008 8:00 AM | Report abuse

What I have realized reading people's responses to news articles and op ed pieces is that most people are not doing the research for themselves -- most of these responses are merely talking sound bites from both candidates' campaigns. This is awfully sad.

People, please, go and do your research -- don't let any campaign be the only one to tell you what they are about. Look at the candidates' comprehensive records, not just a 30 second ad.

God help this nation, many of us truly believe ignorance is bliss.

Question: Do people really believe that oncde Bin Laden is murdered that there will be any real change on the "fight against terror?" That it will end? He is one man. His death won't stop anything, because the way the terror network is organized it doesn't depend on one person. We can't kill everyone with think of as terrorist -- all that will do is create new ones. Yes, we must defend the homeland, but we must also look at our own policies that are a bit terroristic or more than a bit terroristic in nature.

Senator Obama was right on the asking if we have the right person, before punishing them -- this is what makes us American.

Posted by: bella | September 9, 2008 7:43 AM | Report abuse

For all you people who who read and write on this blog. I hope you will take the time to read the constitution. it is a great document. Obama was wise to study it so thoroughly. It will be interesting to see how the news cycle today will effect the polls. I found this poll and have been watching it for a couple of days. http://www.boppoll.com. It seems like people are leaving McCain alone. Not a lot of No McCain Voters seem to be expressing themselves. I hope they are at least registering to vote through the site. I also do like the pink White House!

Posted by: Read the Constitution! | September 9, 2008 7:38 AM | Report abuse

I pray russia or china f_kup the republicans

Posted by: the world | September 9, 2008 7:19 AM | Report abuse

All of a sudden Palin know something about something she knew nothing about. Keep reading from the teleprompter. One day she will have to debate Biden. Not looking to good for her.

Posted by: linda | September 9, 2008 7:06 AM | Report abuse

RyanD,

Hey Fhead america would have to improve 1000% before it was a 2nd rate australia

Posted by: kk | September 9, 2008 6:46 AM | Report abuse

For those that disagree, what if your sons or daughters was captured? How would like them to be treated. What goes around comes around.

Posted by: Erv | September 9, 2008 6:42 AM | Report abuse

"You don't get to read 'em their rights until you catch 'em." What a great line.

From:
Head of State
http://tinyurl.com/65qxee

Sunday, September 07, 2008

10 Ways in Which Sarah Palin Is *Exactly* Like George W. Bush

1) Like Bush, she is completely against a woman's right to choose (in fact, she exceeds Bush in that she is against a woman's right to choose even in cases of rape or incest;

2) Like Bush, she opposes stem cell research to prevent fatal diseases in men, women and children;

3) Like Bush, supports the teaching of Creationism alongside Evolution in public schools;

4) Like Bush, does not believe that Global Warming is man made;

5) Like Bush, has supported abstinence-only sex education methods that have proven ineffective;

6) Like Bush, has virtually no foreign policy experience prior to running for national office--(in Palin's case, despite a 72-year old, chronically ill running mate)

7) Like Bush, has engaged in conduct that has resulted in current government investigation of her actions;

8) Like Bush, has made statements which indicate lack of knowledge of basic elements of the office they are running for (Palin, July 2008: "What exactly does the Vice President do everyday?");

9) Like Bush, has been sequestered to prevent her being asked questions that she has not yet been prepared to answer;

10) Like Bush, talks like a reformer--yet in her actions (i.e., relying on lobbying, supporting the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it) acts in the most typical, all-too-familiar fashion.


H/T: On The Issues

Cite:
Head of State
http://tinyurl.com/65qxee

Posted by: Robert Hewson | September 9, 2008 6:37 AM | Report abuse

If you deny any accused person the rights of Habeus Corpus and other Constitutional rights under own system of Liberty and Justice for All, you are destroying more than their rights, more than your own rights; you are destroying everything that is special about America.

As for all the ad hominem attacks above, it is sad that so many are so stupid that they don't get it.

I am deeply worried that some day an historian will be able to write of these as the final days of mankind's greatest experiment in Liberty. Of course, if he is in a country where there is no Bill of Rights, that's not likely to happen. If he's lucky he will live long enough to be arrested. He'll go to jail without a HC hearing or arraignment and buried in prison with either a phony trial, lacking the right to confront his accusers, or even lacking any trial by a jury of his peers at all.

Like in modern-day China.

Like in Nazi Germany.

Like in Stalinist USSR.

Like in USA's Guantanamo Prison.

Posted by: justjoe | September 9, 2008 6:30 AM | Report abuse

I'm sorry, in my last comment I said Moazzam Begg was tortured to death. He was not, he's still alive. He was tortured despite being innocent, and he saw other prisoners tortured to death.

Posted by: Jamie | September 9, 2008 6:07 AM | Report abuse

The "Mohammed the cab driver" line is a specific reference to an innocent Afghani taxi driver (Moazzam Begg) who was tortured to death in US custody after a case of mistaken identity.

It's not just theoretical. When Palin mocks the constitution, she's laughing at innocent civilians being tortured to death.

Posted by: Jamie | September 9, 2008 6:04 AM | Report abuse

THANKS to all the people who recognize the importance of the Constitution. THANKS to those who recognized the importance of Habeas Corpus, the Geneva Conventions, the rule of law. THANKS to all the people who stated the facts about Obama and the Democrats, and thanks to those who pointed out the truth about how the Bush administration and the Republicans in Congress have nearly destroyed this country. THANKS to all the people who recognized Palin's lack of qualifications, and her cowardice in refusing to be interviewed. (Our founders recognized that a free press, which questioned our leaders and kept them in check, was an important institution, so important that they called it the Fourth Estate.) THANKS to those who pointed to her lies and distortions. THANKS to those who pointed out the phenomenal waste that is being poured into our occupation of Iraq, spending that could be put to good use here to help us put our country back together. THANKS to those who pointed out the poisonous nature of extreme religious ideology, whether it is Islamic or Christian. THANKS to those who recognized the blindness, racism, ignorance, and crass stupidity among the comments. THANKS to those who read beyond the right-wing headlines to learn and explain that the DNC did not trash American flags. THANKS to those who pointed out that the Republicans have increased both the size of our government and the debt of our country, while at the same time dismantling the Constitution and chiseling away at the Bill of Rights and our freedoms. So THANKS (and I’m not going to be able to name all of you) to: Ed3004, Lost Soul, Sheldon, Ash, Irony, Small town America, MNobserver, Abby0802, Jessie, Bruce in Colorado, shawny79, sutu, OCsin, Jeniffer, Phreejazz (Welcome!), Blake.

And NO thanks to dale and JimH in Colorado. I don't want to live in your delusional world, and you both need to get a grip on reality and facts. And NO thanks to linda and rick and Ellen and Rafael 51 and TIM (or is it Tim) and jon (among others); you also need to check your facts and wake up and take a look around you. If you believe the things you have written, I think you have descended below low-information voter status. And NO thanks to those adolescent giggling gangster types who commented using the names of various Democrats. Ooooh, how cool you thought you were! Although, come to think of it I shouldn't demean adolescents in such a fashion. We'll just call you giggling gangster types.

Posted by: sandrawatters | September 9, 2008 5:48 AM | Report abuse

"Mohammed the cab driver??!!" Is that racist or what?

Posted by: indy4palin | September 9, 2008 5:26 AM | Report abuse

I will go out on a limb here... my guess is many of you folks missed the founding principal of our country and it's law. >Protect the rights of the individual

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 5:19 AM | Report abuse

I can't wait until each and every one of you has your house repo'd, your job shipped overseas and your precious rural America overrun with Hispanic workers.

Scared white people turning America into a second-rate Australia with a trigger finger itch. Morons who love punishment, thanks for the last 8 years.

Posted by: RyanD. | September 9, 2008 5:18 AM | Report abuse

McCain's wonderful record includes his involvement in the Keating 5. You do know about that, don't you? Millions of people lost everything they had and the government, once again, had to bail out the Savings and Loans businesses. Your savior John McCain used his position to put pressure on regulators, to help his pal Keating bilk the American public. Read about it. JM apologised for his part in it. There's more. You obviously don't really know anything about John McCain's record.

Posted by: Dash | September 9, 2008 5:17 AM | Report abuse

Look at all the scared white people, hoping for McCain to toss them a brick while they drown in an ocean of their party's own making.

You know less about Palin than you do Obama, but you'll lap her drivel up in a heartbeat, won't you?

Space-wasting Red States and rural isolationists are going to place this country even further down the path of ruin. Brilliant people here, I wish you idiots would go back to Europe.

Posted by: RyanD. | September 9, 2008 5:11 AM | Report abuse

In recent weeks, John McCain and the Republican party have blatantly and without any shame adopted the Democratic campaign theme of “change”. It should be evident to an objective observer that Bush 43 and now McCain and Pailin are mere puppets to the true Republican national party leaders who control their strings. Cheney is one of the few of that inner cabal that have been calling the shots since the Nixon administration. They are in fact a continuation of the Nixon and Ford presidencies with only a disruption during the Carter and Clinton years. Bush 41( Head of the RNC during Nixon,former head of the CIA,VP to Reagan, and president is probably the real leader of this political Cosa Nostra if not a equal partner of this power sharing musical chairs game. His right and left hands have been Dick Cheney(former Sec.of Defense of Bush 41, former White House Chief of staff for Ford) and the other is Donald Rumsfeld(former Sec. of Defense for Ford and Bush 43,former special envoy to the Middle East during Reagan). Another member of this group, more likely a captain if not a full blown boss himself is James Baker (former C.O.S of Reagan, former Under Sec. of Commerce for Ford, former C.O.S and Sec of State for Bush 41, former Sec. of Treasury for Reagan, former chief legal advisor to Bush 43). Another captain or free lance enforcer is Karl Rove a college drop out and campaign manager for both Bush 41 and 43, also for Phil Gram who is McCain’s economic advisor.
Lets look at McCain’s staff of change.
On July 2, 2008, Steve Schmidt was given "full operational control" of McCain's campaign. Steve Schmidt prior to this was a top aide to Dick Cheney and a protégé to Karl Rove. Another advisor is Charles R. Black worked for Ronald Reagan's two Presidential campaigns in 1976 and 1980 and he was a senior political adviser to the 1992 re-election campaign of George H.W. Bush. Another advisor is Randy Scheunemann. He was project director for the Project for the New American Century. A neo-conservative think tank founded by non other than Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Bill Kristol and others in 1996. Other signatories to this group reads like a who’s who of the last 8 years of the republican administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century.
These people have never cared about small town america or “values” All they care about is war profiteering. Many of the signatories have never served in the military. Cheney and Rove both dodged the draft. Look at the statement of principles by the PNAC. Rumsfeld was a good friend of Saddam Huessin in the 80’s Cheney didn’t want Nelson Mandela free. These are the real puppet masters, they throw out the talking points about the left of being elitist and not caring about middle america and these same guys other than Rove have advanced degrees and are worth no less than 10 million dollars. People who support them need to extricate their heads out of Limbaugh and Hannity’s asses and see what is really happening to them. McCain is not his own man he confuses stories of his real life with a book he read “The Gulag Archipelago", in which a fellow prisoner - not a guard - silently drew a cross in the dirt with a stick.” An ironic twist to all this is Eliot A. Cohen, a signatory to the PNAC "Statement of Principles", responded in The Washington Post: "There is no evidence that generals as a class make wiser national security policymakers than civilians. George C. Marshall, our greatest soldier statesman after George Washington, opposed shipping arms to Britain in 1940. His boss, Franklin D. Roosevelt, with nary a day in uniform, thought otherwise. Whose judgment looks better?"[
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2581086/John-McCain-accused-of-plagiarising-Wikipedia-for-speeches.html. Even if you don’t like Obama there is no-way a sane person can want this continued blatant fleecing of our Nation.

Thes are all verifiable facts and can be found just with a google search and wikipedia.

Other than the ultra affluent, how can anyone support the Republican party? When will small town America realize that they are being duped into supporting the ultra-affluent agenda. The talking points of the right are so hypocritical that it becomes laughable. The red meat of the right is the so called Main stream Media as if Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. are not part of it. They demean celebrity status, however they tout one of their greatest presidents(Reagan) was an actor. They say they are the party of patriotism, yet many of the upper echelon of the party have never served, i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Reagan. They say that they care about "Main Street" USA but only bail out the Whales of Wall Street. Yet small town America eat this tripe every year. They don't care about relgion unless it can be used to stir up the base, nor science or technology unless there is a buck to be made. Small town America takes pride on its freedom but yet don't realize that over time we are becoming less free, ie wire tapping and other forms of domestic survelliance. They demean people of intelligence because they know many people of small town America don't have degrees and use it at a fake issue and call people who spent time in academia as elitist when many on the right serve on university boards and have part-time professorships. They say they are against affirmitive action but yet celebrate mediocrity, Bush43 and McCain graduating at the bottom of their classes. Who both came from already well established families and had all the opportunities and connections to excel. Why does small town America believes this is the party for them? Christian conservatives seem to the be the first ones who want to go to war and bomb someone before any diplomacy is tried. Why can't small town America and Christian conservatives realize they are being used as pawns just as much the Islamic fundamentalist are. Islamic fundamentalist come from small town Middle East and given the same kind of talking points as the evangalicals. They want prayer in school, no choice available to women, and believe to the core that their ideas about worship and country are the best. Wake up small town America you are being duped.

Talking about who is more patriotic, symbols, and wearing pins are nothing more than distractions to the real issue of how a few select group of people have held power almost continously for over 30 years. Yes the left has thier own political power groups but none have been so effective at pushing forward an agenda that is fundamentally bad for the U.S. and in a larger view the entire world. I stress again the now defunct PNAC and the AIPAC have been slowly pushing us closer to another World War. Bush41 and et al have been doing this and no one calls them on it. Every Republican admistration has basically the same people recycled since Nixon. Just do a little research and you will see that these people are just pushing this agenda of some kind of Pax Americana and not taking into account that maybe other nations of the world might not like that and if not bomb them.
Many people who support the Republican party, really need to read "1984" by George Orwell and see how we as nation have been inching closer to that type of society. People think this story is about a communist society, but it is more about how a society is kept in a constant state of fear in order for the ruling class to stay in control. Doublespeak, patriotism to the point of frenzy, censhorship, erosion of civil liberties (not respecting the constitution) is happening right in front of us. The cosilidation of government (the executive branch has never been more powerful than ever). No real independent journalism. Cameras on street corners. This may sound like delusional conspiracy stuff, but I implore people to research for themselves to really see what is happening to them. People think this could never happen here in the U.S. but all this has already happening, slowly, icrementally all under the guise of "keeping America safe"

I posted thes comments on other political blogs and I send them to you to use them or do with them as you please. I truly hope that Senator Obama will be able to stem this tide of facism and break this cycle of fear that has beem slowly eroding the American dream.

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 5:07 AM | Report abuse

After I read the following article, I stopped keying in 'Sarah Palin's Scandals' on google. This article about a Trojan Moose is right on...Karl Rowe has tricked us once again, he has directed everyone else where...away from the issues of the war in Iraq, the economy and issue that do matter to everyone--small towns and large cities.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/sarah-palin-a-trojan-moos_b_124867.html

Posted by: Valdar | September 9, 2008 4:40 AM | Report abuse

Is Obama really advocating that we take out Farrahkhan and the Moslem extremist sympathizers?

Posted by: alias lefty | September 9, 2008 4:30 AM | Report abuse

One little woman and the entire Democratic party is in a tizzy. They should have kept Hillary and let her scratch Sarah to shreds. Ten points for one little inexperienced lady! What luck! Probably won't hold up past February.

Posted by: alias lefty | September 9, 2008 4:27 AM | Report abuse

Love the article, and as for most of the other bloggers on this article, 'Who are THESE PEOPLE'...They can't be Americans...LOL

Posted by: Hondre' | September 9, 2008 4:25 AM | Report abuse

Why do I get the feeling Obama is giving a stand up routine. "But seriously folks...." a funny thing happened on the way to read 1984. Take a humor break and get some stress relief at http://www.bop-o-rama.com. I like Hillary's guest appearance.

Posted by: mgultch | September 9, 2008 4:18 AM | Report abuse

The tile of this blog is: Obama to Palin: 'Don't Mock the Constitution'

I say we start a post Americans to Obama: don't mock American!

God night all!

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 4:14 AM | Report abuse

bzzpd

don't confuse me with facts. i'm committed or at least should be.

Posted by: alias lefty | September 9, 2008 4:09 AM | Report abuse

Down the river of terrorist sorrow Obama floats. He puts a coin in each terrorists eye's and wishes them a fond farewell under the United States Constitution.

Hence ....He is doomed to be a Senator for another term.

Leaderless terrorist lovers....Biden/Obama....don't worry about the year...they have already lost!

Posted by: bzzpd | September 9, 2008 4:07 AM | Report abuse

Just a comment on the 1984/Animal Farm references....uh...I believe Orwell was writing a critique of what he saw in the Socialist and Communists parties. You guys might want to also read his essays. He was definetly a socialist, but he was very wary of what socialism could be perverted into...hence the two novels.

Posted by: crooksnliarsall | September 9, 2008 4:06 AM | Report abuse

While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old rancher, who's hand was caught in the gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. Eventually the topic got around to Obama and his bid to be our president.


The old rancher said, 'Well, ya know, Obama is a 'Post Turtle'. Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a 'post turtle' was. The old rancher said, 'When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a 'post turtle'.

The old rancher saw the puzzled look on the doctor's face so he continued to explain. 'You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, and he doesn't know what to do while he's up there, and you just wonder what kind of people put him up there to begin with.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 4:05 AM | Report abuse

Ironcomments

I like some of your last post. Why do you make yourself look foolish by supporting Obama. He is obviously hand picked by the CFR elite.

I'm going to cut and paste a story about Obama. I didn't write it, but it makes a good point.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 4:03 AM | Report abuse

Obama lets children in abortion clinics that are alive....get placed in a cold room to die form exposure.

And he has the gaul to talk about terrorist's rights?

This clown won't even protect babies from infanticide.

But he will protect the terrorists under the constitution.

The Democrats war against children has cost the lives of 45 million children over since 1973.

But Obama is worried about the rights of a bunch of inbred killers.

How poetic.

Posted by: bzzpd | September 9, 2008 4:02 AM | Report abuse

Correction: McCain has lost this election with his senile pick of unready VP

Posted by: bzzpd | September 9, 2008 4:02 AM | Report abuse

Obama has lost this election.

Posted by: bzzpd | September 9, 2008 3:57 AM | Report abuse

Obama's argument makes no sense. He is saying that we should kill terrorists on sight. And then he says we don't know who's a terrorist and who's innocent. Why is he advocating killing them then?

Posted by: Billdemo | September 9, 2008 3:54 AM | Report abuse

more comments for you JimH:

Anyone who votes Republican this year is more delusional than the candidates they support. In recent weeks, John McCain and the Republican party have blatantly and without any shame adopted the Democratic campaign theme of “change”. It should be evident to an objective observer that Bush 43 and now McCain and Pailin are mere puppets to the true Republican national party leaders who control their strings. Cheney is one of the few of that inner cabal that have been calling the shots since the Nixon administration. They are in fact a continuation of the Nixon and Ford presidencies with only a disruption during the Carter and Clinton years. Bush 41( Head of the RNC during Nixon,former head of the CIA,VP to Reagan, and president is probably the real leader of this political Cosa Nostra if not a equal partner of this power sharing musical chairs game. His right and left hands have been Dick Cheney(former Sec.of Defense of Bush 41, former White House Chief of staff for Ford) and the other is Donald Rumsfeld(former Sec. of Defense for Ford and Bush 43,former special envoy to the Middle East during Reagan). Another member of this group, more likely a captain if not a full blown boss himself is James Baker (former C.O.S of Reagan, former Under Sec. of Commerce for Ford, former C.O.S and Sec of State for Bush 41, former Sec. of Treasury for Reagan, former chief legal advisor to Bush 43). Another captain or free lance enforcer is Karl Rove a college drop out and campaign manager for both Bush 41 and 43, also for Phil Gram who is McCain’s economic advisor.
Lets look at McCain’s staff of change.
On July 2, 2008, Steve Schmidt was given "full operational control" of McCain's campaign. Steve Schmidt prior to this was a top aide to Dick Cheney and a protégé to Karl Rove. Another advisor is Charles R. Black worked for Ronald Reagan's two Presidential campaigns in 1976 and 1980 and he was a senior political adviser to the 1992 re-election campaign of George H.W. Bush. Another advisor is Randy Scheunemann. He was project director for the Project for the New American Century. A neo-conservative think tank founded by non other than Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Bill Kristol and others in 1996. Other signatories to this group reads like a who’s who of the last 8 years of the republican administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century.
These people have never cared about small town america or “values” All they care about is war profiteering. Many of the signatories have never served in the military. Cheney and Rove both dodged the draft. Look at the statement of principles by the PNAC. Rumsfeld was a good friend of Saddam Huessin in the 80’s Cheney didn’t want Nelson Mandela free. These are the real puppet masters, they throw out the talking points about the left of being elitist and not caring about middle america and these same guys other than Rove have advanced degrees and are worth no less than 10 million dollars. People who support them need to extricate their heads out of Limbaugh and Hannity’s asses and see what is really happening to them. McCain is not his own man he confuses stories of his real life with a book he read “The Gulag Archipelago", in which a fellow prisoner - not a guard - silently drew a cross in the dirt with a stick.” An ironic twist to all this is Eliot A. Cohen, a signatory to the PNAC "Statement of Principles", responded in The Washington Post: "There is no evidence that generals as a class make wiser national security policymakers than civilians. George C. Marshall, our greatest soldier statesman after George Washington, opposed shipping arms to Britain in 1940. His boss, Franklin D. Roosevelt, with nary a day in uniform, thought otherwise. Whose judgment looks better?"[
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2581086/John-McCain-accused-of-plagiarising-Wikipedia-for-speeches.html. Even if you don’t like Obama there is no-way a sane person can want this continued blatant fleecing of our Nation.

Thes are all verifiable facts and can be found just with a google search.

Other than the ultra affluent, how can anyone support the Republican party? When will small town America realize that they are being duped into supporting the ultra-affluent agenda. The talking points of the right are so hypocritical that it becomes laughable. The red meat of the right is the so called Main stream Media as if Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. are not part of it. They demean celebrity status, however they tout one of their greatest presidents(Reagan) was an actor. They say they are the party of patriotism, yet many of the upper echelon of the party have never served, i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Reagan. They say that they care about "Main Street" USA but only bail out the Whales of Wall Street. Yet small town America eat this tripe every year. They don't care about relgion unless it can be used to stir up the base, nor science or technology unless there is a buck to be made. Small town America takes pride on its freedom but yet don't realize that over time we are becoming less free, ie wire tapping and other forms of domestic survelliance. They demean people of intelligence because they know many people of small town America don't have degrees and use it at a fake issue and call people who spent time in academia as elitist when many on the right serve on university boards and have part-time professorships. They say they are against affirmitive action but yet celebrate mediocrity, Bush43 and McCain graduating at the bottom of their classes. Who both came from already well established families and had all the opportunities and connections to excel. Why does small town America believes this is the party for them? Christian conservatives seem to the be the first ones who want to go to war and bomb someone before any diplomacy is tried. Why can't small town America and Christian conservatives realize they are being used as pawns just as much the Islamic fundamentalist are. Islamic fundamentalist come from small town Middle East and given the same kind of talking points as the evangalicals. They want prayer in school, no choice available to women, and believe to the core that their ideas about worship and country are the best. Wake up small town America you are being played.

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 3:54 AM | Report abuse

1984 is great. I'd recommend Animal Farm for a parallel to the RNC.

Posted by: Hot Toddy, CA | September 9, 2008 3:53 AM | Report abuse

Many people who support the Republican party, really need to read "1984" by George Orwell and see how we as nation have been inching closer to that type of society. People think this story is about a communist society, but it is more about how a society is kept in a constant state of fear in order for the ruling class to stay in control. Doublespeak, patriotism to the point of frenzy, censhorship, erosion of civil liberties (not respecting the constitution) is happening right in front of us. The cosilidation of government (the executive branch has never been more powerful than ever). No real independent journalism. Cameras on street corners. This may sound like delusional conspiracy stuff, but I implore people to research for themselves to really see what is happening to them. People think this could never happen here in the U.S. but all this has already happening, slowly, icrementally all under the guise of "keeping America safe"

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 3:50 AM | Report abuse

Who cares if they voted for a bridge to nowhere, at least they didn't LIE about it to the American people. I'll fact check that in the morning.

Now you want to kick Obama out of the country, because thats your only hope to win.

OBAMA/BIDEN=an intelligent choice, because having a choice is better than none

Stop your fear mongering and go back to your shack.

Posted by: Hot Toddy, CA | September 9, 2008 3:48 AM | Report abuse

Prove your Citizenship Barak Hussien Obama aka-Barry Soetoro aka- Barry Dunham?? YOU and the DNC are ORDERED TO APPEAR-SUMMONED TO COURT....BRING US THE PROOF
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/

We will know who he is in October 21, 2008....answer DUE!!!
A JURY TRIAL HAS BEEN DEMANDED!!!!

((GLASS HOUSES???))
Obama & Biden vote YES twice for "the bridge to nowhere"??? http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2005-264

CLICK THE LINKS
STOP FOLLOWING THE MESSIAH BLINDLY!!!

Posted by: WE THE PEOPLE | September 9, 2008 3:43 AM | Report abuse

Is it true that the DNC ordered 10,000,000 towels for use in their voter registration efforts?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 3:42 AM | Report abuse

Where is the VP?
Where are my multiple vp debates?

Where is Waldo I mean Sarah?

Quit pasting comments. If you know anything about the Anti-christ prophecy. Its someone that people will never suspect....maybe its McCain???Have ever thought about that

Republicans when confronted with the truth first resort to 1)lies 2)fear-mongering 3) denial

Posted by: Hot Toddy, CA | September 9, 2008 3:42 AM | Report abuse

Maurizio

The flag story is true (innumerable sources).

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 3:40 AM | Report abuse

Many people who support the Republican party, really need to read 1984 by George Orwell and see how we as nation have been inching closer to that type of society.

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 3:39 AM | Report abuse

well joe, i would hope you make an effort to do a bit of research into how fundamentalist extremist groups start. perhaps im wrong, but whats teh cost ;).

i admire the idea that we could somehow both remain independant as a country while at the same time providing rights and privledges to people who are used to living without them when we arrest them for blowing up a chunk of that independance. but having spent a great deal of my life attempting to teach teenagers responsibility, i find that it is impossible to treat them as adults, not because they are dumb, but because on thier own they have no reason to learn.

i admit i have worked mostly with privledged youth who are so focused on thier blackberries and choclats that they couldnt tell you the name of barack obamas running mate. but growing up underprivledged, and knowing the motivation that being at the bottom gives a person for the future, i feel theres a necessity to teach kids what that means.

a great deal of terrorists and extremists are like children in that they have a very narrow and focused education that teaches them little about living life. and i cant advocate teh ideology of treating them with enhanced privledges when in my experience that simply doesnt fit the bill for the purpose.

especially when so much about national security is run on a time clock, wherein information is needed before an attack happens, not after.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 3:38 AM | Report abuse

The flag story is fake. (Innumerable sources).
When one party always has to defend their patriotism and religion it becomes extremely difficult for that party to win national elections. It's what the PRI did in Mexico. Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama- all have had to vehemently defend their love of country. Bush, Dole, Bush, McCain- never had to go there.
But of course the corporate media is secretly run by anti-capitalists who support the Marxist Obama for president!

Posted by: Maurizio | September 9, 2008 3:34 AM | Report abuse

WHO are YOU Barak Hussien Obama Soetoro Dunham??
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/

Obama & Biden vote YES twice for "the bridge to nowhere"??? http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2005-264

CLICK THE LINKS
STOP FOLLOWING THE MESSIAH BLINDLY!!!

Posted by: Stop The LIES | September 9, 2008 3:34 AM | Report abuse

IronComments

Why do you need to cut and paste talking points? You have actually participated in an open debate now. What did Washington ever do to you? Wasn't there any president you admired?

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 3:30 AM | Report abuse

bye kevin, i would have weent ot bed an hour ago if i had my way, but when hte mind starts running its a bit tough to shut off.

i didnt expect obama to cure cancer, and perhaps i was a bit over-expectant in my wording, but what i meant is, ive been on week long mission trips that accomplished more than obama in his time as a community organizer. (okay again thats an exaggeration) but my point is, a community organizer has no set responsibilities, so they can go as far or as short as they want to clear the bar. i dont feel obamas work shouts patriot. worse, i fear that it shouts underacheiver, or even fear of success, or responsibility.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 3:29 AM | Report abuse

joe,

the constitution was a dissolving of a contract in contractual form, the very essence of its existance was to provide rights to a people who did not feel they had any. im not sure where your fundamental beleif comes into logical equation. aside from the fact that its leaked into democrat ideology after the formation of the party itself.

--------

Dale,

I have to say, I don't think my beliefs on the meaning and value of the constitution have anything to do with party politics whatsoever. I don't think my interpretation of it is particularly liberal, either.

The fact is, if you treat it as a set of rules that are nice to live by when they're convenient and disposable when they're not, it really does become a worthless document.

Obama's stance on the constitution isn't fundamentalist at all, and I don't think there is such a thing as a fundamentalist reading of the constitution. His position is shared by a lot of constitutional scholars, and it is also the way the country has operated for over 200 years. The divergent philosophy is the more recent one of suspending or subverting habeas corpus indefinitely.

I'll admit that it is easier to defeat your enemies when you don't allow your principles to get in the way. There is just no doubt that it is easier. It's just that when you're fighting to defend your way of life, sacrificing your way of life to get yourself a little closer to victory is not a particularly good strategy.

And since it's late, I think I'll have to call it a night on that note. I do appreciate being able to have a conversation, though. I can't say I agree with you, but we can at least say we talked it over without turning stupid about it. Given the state of things between the two parties, that's at least something, eh? :)

Cheers,
Joe

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 3:28 AM | Report abuse

American Woman? More like American Idiot.

Posted by: beedogs | September 9, 2008 3:28 AM | Report abuse

I want multiple VP debates and I want them NOW. No teleprompters, scripts, nothing.

I want multiple VP debates and I want them NOW. No teleprompters, scripts, nothing.

I know Biden is ready.

McSame is a Fraud. Oh lets the excuses from Repugnant Republicans.

Posted by: Hot Toddy, CA | September 9, 2008 3:27 AM | Report abuse

Truth is POWER

Your demand is every bit as legitimate as the challenges to Sarah Palin only dead serious. When was the last time we had a prez candidate who couldn't prove his citizenship? Where is MSNBC on that one?

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 3:27 AM | Report abuse

Talking about who is more patriotic, symbols, and wearing pins are nothing more than distractions to the real issue of how a few select group of people have held power almost continously for over 30 years. Yes the left has thier own political power groups but none have been so effective at pushing forward an agenda that is fundamentally bad for the U.S. and in a larger view the entire world. I stress again the now defunct PNAC and the AIPAC have been slowly pushing us closer to another World War. Bush41 and et al have been doing this and no one calls them on it. Every Republican admistration has basically the same people recycled since Nixon. Just do a little research and you will see that these people are just pushing this agenda of some kind of Pax Americana and not taking into account that maybe other nations of the world might not like that and if not bomb them.

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 3:25 AM | Report abuse

Well I never thought community organizers or any volunteers would do something world altering such as cure cancer but I do believe that they affect many other smaller and harder to track and quantify changes. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I appreciate the fact you would have a civil debate with out insults and drool drenched talking points but i'm out. gotta working in the morning.

Posted by: Kevin | September 9, 2008 3:24 AM | Report abuse

And Palin was only elected because a Polar Bear could have run and won since Murkowski, another Republican, was so corrupt. Palin knows this, that's why she doesn't want them on the endangered species list. She wants to eliminate any potential competition in the next election.

Posted by: Oh brother! | September 9, 2008 3:24 AM | Report abuse

lol, oh brother, i like the application of freedom kiss, however thats all i have to say about what you wrote, as you obviously didn't read what i wrote but only what you wanted to see in your own bias.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 3:22 AM | Report abuse

I'm am so glad the the gloves have come off and Ms. Palin is being taken to task for her Chaneyest commits!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 3:21 AM | Report abuse

Prove your Citizenship Barak Hussien Obama Soetoro Dunham??
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/

Obama & Biden vote YES twice for "the bridge to nowhere"??? http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2005-264

CLICK THE LINKS
STOP FOLLOWING THE MESSIAH BLINDLY!!!

Posted by: Truth is POWER | September 9, 2008 3:21 AM | Report abuse

Kevin

I think it's a violation of campaign laws to use a machine with a person's handle to blog. If not it should be. These Obama people are running scared.

Just because you don't like my points doesn't make them childish and moronic.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 3:20 AM | Report abuse

if obama lived up to his educational background while being a community organizer, making GREAT things because he had made himself GREAT through experience, i would capitulate to your ideology kevin, however, he did not.

obama was only even elected once, despite his "sparkling" reputation as a community organizer, his first election ran unopposed, the second against a heavily unpopular incumbant.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 3:19 AM | Report abuse

JimH

your insults are childish and moronic. I don't like people cutting and pasting over and over again but you are just as bad with your pathetic little rants about nothing. At least the cut and pasters are trying to make a point.

Posted by: Kevin | September 9, 2008 3:17 AM | Report abuse

it was never referred to as a whim, and it was never dug up as a scandal until after she was fired, leading anyone of common sense to beleive that there was no fear of loosing her job until she did.

the same logic applies when a white boss fires a black coworker.

simply because there was no public statement about why teh black coworker was fired, it becomes a racist stretch to some.

that IS NOT occums razor by any means.

essentially the debate is

she fired hte librarian because she was not working out for the position

she fired the librarian because of an intricate web of secret deception started because the librarian would not ban specific books which the mayor then after firing the librarian never brought up again.....

complicated....not complicated?

you really have to explain away and assume alot to reach the latter conclusion, therefore occums razor cant possibly be stated in its positive.

------------------------------------------

however allow me a tangent, when occums razor became a popular debate tool a little over 20 years ago it was used to debate teh existance of religion, claiming that its less complicated to beleive that matter came out of nothing expanded into nothing and created a neat symbiosis that follows consistant patternss of life.

this arguement was shot down when a researcher announced that occum the logistician who created the law, was a catholic. (tho amongst many the debate still rages).

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 3:16 AM | Report abuse

Amen to you obama!

Posted by: ally | September 9, 2008 3:15 AM | Report abuse

Once again dale I have to disagree. I believe the base of any strong country is a strong community and the time Obama spent as a community organizer is a strong indicator of his desire to further the pursuit of happiness for all Americans.

Posted by: Kevin | September 9, 2008 3:13 AM | Report abuse

"that is patriotism, when you fall in love with this country, you wear the stupid little pin, you salute teh stupid little flag, and you put your stupid hand over your stupid little heart, not because you have to, but because you love to."

Posted by: dale

Ah dale, I see you still haven't given up your Neo-Conjob posting on blogs, you are prolific if not intelligent or thoughtful.

Wearing flag pins doesn't make you or not make you a "patriot", I'd be willing to bet most of those politicians who wear them, wear them because they now feel they have to. Some people, just like when in love with a person, don't think it is always appropriate to French kiss (freedom kiss?) in public because it shows bad taste.

Hand over heart, saluting if in uniform, no problem. But you nor anyone else has a right to define what a "patriot" is. My father was a Purple Heart recipient and darned near die for this country which he loved. He thought people like your were dangerous trying to tell others how they should be patriotic. And he thought all of the politicians, especially GOP politicians, appearing in public with flag pins was rather ludicrous, after all, these were the very people who were destroying and dividing the country he fought and almost died for.

Those who are the greatest patriots (in my humble opinion) are the very people who are ridiculed for not being so. They love their country so much they are willing to speak out and rick being ostracized when she is wrong.

Posted by: Oh brother! | September 9, 2008 3:13 AM | Report abuse

Just stop with the name-calling altogether. Its disgusting and totally unnecessary if you're comfortable enough in defending your argument without insults.

There are no commies, there are no moonbats, there are no nutballs. Only people who don't agree with you. Just stop.

Posted by: Ry | September 9, 2008 3:13 AM | Report abuse

IronComments

Now I get it! IronComments is a machine trolling the Internet to paste this trype over and over and over. Not an original thought. I call you out Ironman. Something relevant to the conversation.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 3:13 AM | Report abuse

American Woman

Wow, a challenger has declared!
These clowns think that we are stupid (unfortunately they are partially right, or do I mean left).

Their shallow hypocrisy is starting to be exposed for what it is: Neo-commies.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 3:11 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who votes Republican this year is more delusional than the candidates they support. In recent weeks, John McCain and the Republican party have blatantly and without any shame adopted the Democratic campaign theme of “change”. It should be evident to an objective observer that Bush 43 and now McCain and Pailin are mere puppets to the true Republican national party leaders who control their strings. Cheney is one of the few of that inner cabal that have been calling the shots since the Nixon administration. They are in fact a continuation of the Nixon and Ford presidencies with only a disruption during the Carter and Clinton years. Bush 41( Head of the RNC during Nixon,former head of the CIA,VP to Reagan, and president is probably the real leader of this political Cosa Nostra if not a equal partner of this power sharing musical chairs game. His right and left hands have been Dick Cheney(former Sec.of Defense of Bush 41, former White House Chief of staff for Ford) and the other is Donald Rumsfeld(former Sec. of Defense for Ford and Bush 43,former special envoy to the Middle East during Reagan). Another member of this group, more likely a captain if not a full blown boss himself is James Baker (former C.O.S of Reagan, former Under Sec. of Commerce for Ford, former C.O.S and Sec of State for Bush 41, former Sec. of Treasury for Reagan, former chief legal advisor to Bush 43). Another captain or free lance enforcer is Karl Rove a college drop out and campaign manager for both Bush 41 and 43, also for Phil Gram who is McCain’s economic advisor.
Lets look at McCain’s staff of change.
On July 2, 2008, Steve Schmidt was given "full operational control" of McCain's campaign. Steve Schmidt prior to this was a top aide to Dick Cheney and a protégé to Karl Rove. Another advisor is Charles R. Black worked for Ronald Reagan's two Presidential campaigns in 1976 and 1980 and he was a senior political adviser to the 1992 re-election campaign of George H.W. Bush. Another advisor is Randy Scheunemann. He was project director for the Project for the New American Century. A neo-conservative think tank founded by non other than Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Bill Kristol and others in 1996. Other signatories to this group reads like a who’s who of the last 8 years of the republican administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century.
These people have never cared about small town america or “values” All they care about is war profiteering. Many of the signatories have never served in the military. Cheney and Rove both dodged the draft. Look at the statement of principles by the PNAC. Rumsfeld was a good friend of Saddam Huessin in the 80’s Cheney didn’t want Nelson Mandela free. These are the real puppet masters, they throw out the talking points about the left of being elitist and not caring about middle america and these same guys other than Rove have advanced degrees and are worth no less than 10 million dollars. People who support them need to extricate their heads out of Limbaugh and Hannity’s asses and see what is really happening to them. McCain is not his own man he confuses stories of his real life with a book he read “The Gulag Archipelago", in which a fellow prisoner - not a guard - silently drew a cross in the dirt with a stick.” An ironic twist to all this is Eliot A. Cohen, a signatory to the PNAC "Statement of Principles", responded in The Washington Post: "There is no evidence that generals as a class make wiser national security policymakers than civilians. George C. Marshall, our greatest soldier statesman after George Washington, opposed shipping arms to Britain in 1940. His boss, Franklin D. Roosevelt, with nary a day in uniform, thought otherwise. Whose judgment looks better?"[
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2581086/John-McCain-accused-of-plagiarising-Wikipedia-for-speeches.html. Even if you don’t like Obama there is no-way a sane person can want this continued blatant fleecing of our Nation.

Thes are all verifiable facts and can be found just with a google search.

Other than the ultra affluent, how can anyone support the Republican party? When will small town America realize that they are being duped into supporting the ultra-affluent agenda. The talking points of the right are so hypocritical that it becomes laughable. The red meat of the right is the so called Main stream Media as if Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. are not part of it. They demean celebrity status, however they tout one of their greatest presidents(Reagan) was an actor. They say they are the party of patriotism, yet many of the upper echelon of the party have never served, i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Reagan. They say that they care about "Main Street" USA but only bail out the Whales of Wall Street. Yet small town America eat this tripe every year. They don't care about relgion unless it can be used to stir up the base, nor science or technology unless there is a buck to be made. Small town America takes pride on its freedom but yet don't realize that over time we are becoming less free, ie wire tapping and other forms of domestic survelliance. They demean people of intelligence because they know many people of small town America don't have degrees and use it at a fake issue and call people who spent time in academia as elitist when many on the right serve on university boards and have part-time professorships. They say they are against affirmitive action but yet celebrate mediocrity, Bush43 and McCain graduating at the bottom of their classes. Who both came from already well established families and had all the opportunities and connections to excel. Why does small town America believes this is the party for them? Christian conservatives seem to the be the first ones who want to go to war and bomb someone before any diplomacy is tried. Why can't small town America and Christian conservatives realize they are being used as pawns just as much the Islamic fundamentalist are. Islamic fundamentalist come from small town Middle East and given the same kind of talking points as the evangalicals. They want prayer in school, no choice available to women, and believe to the core that their ideas about worship and country are the best. Wake up small town America you are being played.

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 3:09 AM | Report abuse

Yes! That is what this country is about. Fairness, decency and due process. Our forefathers fought against tyranny and we must always choose to behave like "democratic-republicans" not like tyrants. Palin's sneering line against "reading people their rights" was one of the worst things she said in a very bad speech.

Posted by: Chuck | September 9, 2008 3:09 AM | Report abuse

kevin,

lol touche, but not valid. i wont get into the cross thing, friendly jab, but none the less. i never said our symbols were, i simply suggested that when your heart is in the right place, those things are not just symbols, they become more to you and as a result your focus is greater and more obvious.

its the old bible verse "faith without works is dead" it doesnt mean that if you do works you will be righteous, it means that if you have faith, you will inately begin to do great works.

its actually why i cant possibly vote for obama, his pride in america seems dead, so much so that putting a pin on his lapel is too much work.

to be honest i have a hard time seeing his historical proof of any form of pride in his work either. as a lawyer he sat back quietly and only preformed one real oral case. at the lawfirm he focused on paperwork, a job for secretaries and interns. he SEEMS to me, tho i know to many i am leaping, to not have any pride in his job or his country.

i have seen a great deal of people who are in love, and ive seen a great deal of people who are in lust, and ive seen a great deal of peopel who are given up. obama seems to have given up more than any of the other alternatives.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 3:08 AM | Report abuse

Do your words apply to the great liberal hope? "Again, I defer to Occam's Razor and say that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has no other explanation for itself, then it is most likely a duck." If you are consistent, we've got a problem with this Obama character.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 3:07 AM | Report abuse

Anonymous says:

"all i have to say to ralph is, lemme lock you up for 5 years and beat you till you cant raise your arms...i dont care if it changes you, just let me, id really like to."

Do I get drop bombs on your family first? Napalm your kids?

Posted by: Rollerboy | September 9, 2008 3:07 AM | Report abuse

Anyone that makes the matter of a candidate's religion their main decision to support said candidate is a idiot and deserves what they get. The only reason I care is because I don't believe the rest of the country deserves it.

Posted by: Kevin | September 9, 2008 3:06 AM | Report abuse

Yea, I bet America needs a lecture on the constitution from someone named Barak Hussien Obama who has known associations with radical hard left people, terrorists, a convict connected with syria. Black seperatists who calls America G*d*amned, someone who wont and hasnt proven his citizenship http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/
and now we find out he and his vp elect voted twice for the bridge to nowhere??? http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2005-264

Before you say Sarah Palin is mocking the constitution, how about all these people across the USA that you just stole their contributions from, the "folks" that gave you $1 or $2 from their hearts? Lay down, you loser. Your jail bait.

Posted by: American Woman | September 9, 2008 3:05 AM | Report abuse

I don't care if you're not an Obama supporter, but how can you call yourself an American and disagree with what he said here?

It has been a cornerstone of our Constitution for over two centuries that we have allowed people imprisoned in our country, for whatever crimes they may have either committed or been suspect of, to simply challenge the court and ask, "Why?"

Even the Nazis, some of the most evil people to walk this planet were given a trial at Nuremberg. It not only upholds the very foundation of our legal infrastructure to abide by this basic tenet of justice, but it speaks volumes to the world about us as Americans when we can give some of the worst criminals their due process in court. And don't kid yourselves, there are innocent people being held at Guantanamo Bay detention center and other black sites around the world who aren't being allowed to so much as challenge their prisoner status.

Have any of you read "The Trial"? This is like something out of Franz Kafka, the way those people cheered for Governor Palin when she basically dumped on the Constitution during her speech. And Sen. Obama had it right when he schooled her in the order of due process there.

Posted by: Ry | September 9, 2008 3:04 AM | Report abuse

the librarian (if i remember right) was fired nearly a year after the alleged INQUISITION on books (hehe).

---------

Dale,

I'm not sure that matters to me. It seems clear that the residents of the city felt there was something there to protest. The librarian herself was asked to resign twice (although not fired), and ultimately left the position on her own. Perhaps it's normal for governors to discuss the banning of books with librarians, or for governors to decide that a well-respect librarian should be replaced on a whim. Again, I defer to Occam's Razor and say that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has no other explanation for itself, then it is most likely a duck.

Posted by: Jon | September 9, 2008 3:04 AM | Report abuse

Look dale I'm not telling you or anyone else to stop saluting the flag or putting your hand over your heart when you say the pledge of allegiance. I'm saying that I believe there are many ways to be patriotic and I believe that anyone that says Obama isn't is wrong and a hypocrite.

Posted by: Kevin | September 9, 2008 3:03 AM | Report abuse

Anonymous ( for good reason)

You are nominated for dumbest cut and paste talking point today. What did Washington ever do to you" His foresight and wisdom puts him at the top of my list. He was a war hero and a good man. He actually read his Bible 1 hour every day and prayed for his country. No Washington, no 232 years of prosperity. We are still the greatest nation in history.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 3:01 AM | Report abuse

Now who is on the cross dale?
I can appreciate your obsession with symbols of our country but they are not what make our country great, they are just symbols. What about people always vote or that volunteer for their candidates campaign or do a million other small things that show their love and appreciation for this country?

Posted by: Kevin | September 9, 2008 3:00 AM | Report abuse

kevin,

i agree there is no greater patriotism htan standing up for your country and not just in line with your country but in line with what your country needs (or wife as previous example).

should that wife have a drug habit you stand tall and you confront her, but do you stop telling her you love her? do you stop caring for her and do you not help her to rehab?

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 2:57 AM | Report abuse

This campaign is turning into "Through the Looking Glass". Either I'm insane or McCain/Palin is insane. I've sensed this disconnect many times during the Bush presidency. First there was the Bush/Cheney dishonesty in the runup to Iraq, then the endless mantra of "stay the course", and finally the constant cheerleading on the state of the economy while it implodes around us. I don't think the federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac is a small matter undertaken for a bit of fine-tuning of the financial system. These government officials lie all the time, to the point that one begins to assume they are always lying. Wasn't it just a week or two ago when the gobal markets had the jitters over Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac that the the Treasury secretary had to dispel the rumors of an imminent federal takeover? Anyway, when Palin talks, she sounds just like a Bush clone. So much for "change". McCain seems to think that a "change" of name in the president is all the change the voters want. To me, his "maverick" harks back to the Marlboro man. But Americans aren't buying cigarettes: they're about to elect a president. How's he going to "maverick" us out of stagflation, and Iraq? "Maverick" is a style designation, not a governing philosophy, or an issue orientation. At this point in time, I don't think the Presidency just needs an image makeover. It needs a REAL makeover. But, that's impossible within the confines of the GOP platform. I actually think that if I am deciding who to vote for, on the basis of who do I fear least, it would be Obama. When you delude yourself that you can run against your own party, by pointing out your top-gun, maverick self-image, you just seem silly, not serious. The problem with Bush wasn't his image. I actually sort of liked his "aw shucks"personality.
The problem was his actual decisions as president, which flowed naturally from the GOP's entrenched ideology. McCain/Palin offer more of the same, packaged in slightly different personalities. And, beyond that, now they seem just as truth-challenged as Bush/Cheney.
I think Obama's going to have to sharpen his message. He's got to stop preaching to the choir, and directly and honestly communicate with the swing voter. One thing he must do, is fight back against the attempt to dismiss him as elite. He has to remind people just as he did with regard to constitutional law, that America has a history,and we stand for something, that it is important to honor the memory of our founding fathers, who were the elite of their day. The Declaration of Independence was not written by a "f in' redneck" Maybe "reform" Palin-style really is something we should be afraid of. People who profess patriotism and reverence for the principles upon which our nation was founded, should have the humility and seriousness to beome intimately acquainted with how it came into being, including the social class and educational background of the Founding Fathers. Ouch!! George Washington was the richest man in the colonies due to his marriage to Martha. So, Obama's got to demand the respect he deserves for his intellect which is part of a long and proud tradition in Ameerican leaders. He must tirelessy reject Palin's sound-bites and reorient to reality. He took a stab at it on habeus corpus. But he has to pound this in day after day, and it is going to take more than sound-bites for Obama to make the connection between the duplicitous , bitter campaign they are running and what we should expect from them in governing the country should they win. They promise to be as dishonest as the current GOP administration. I think when you compromise on integrity to win an election, it is so easy to continue on that path as you govern.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 2:56 AM | Report abuse

all i have to say to ralph is, lemme lock you up for 5 years and beat you till you cant raise your arms.

i dont care if it changes you, just let me, id really like to.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 2:54 AM | Report abuse

I have to say that I think your idea of patriotism is sadly skewed. While I agree that many Americans have done great and heroic things, I also believe that standing up and calling our government out when we think they doing something wrong is also heroic and patriotic. Just falling in line and allowing people to do horrible things in our country’s name without speaking out is cowardly and pathetic. You may think that our country is going in the right direction but 80% of Americans don’t and it is their job and duty to speak up. I also believe that your children would be much safer if they had presidents who considered diplomacy before they get our country in a five quagmire of a occupation. We are not at war and we haven’t been for years.

Posted by: Kevin | September 9, 2008 2:54 AM | Report abuse

sry that came off as anti-homosexual, i meant to put "her" in there, and that was why i wrote assuming you are heterosexual, but i guess i forgot the "her".

-chuckles-

dales political gaffe's #1)

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 2:52 AM | Report abuse

To republicans, the constitution is just a piece of "god-da**ned paper". But for Americans, it's the bedrock of our nation. We need the constitution to protect us from republicans. The erosion of the constitution is the goal of the right-wing, to justify any terrorist acts, wholesale theft, and sell out of real americans. Make no mistake, 911 is an act of republican terror against america. It happened on their watch, they planned it, they profited from it. In any great crime, follow the money. Don't believe this cock-eyed story of a bunch of straw men from the middle east flying planes into buildings. It's a lie. Think asbestos, think KBR, Haliburton, and the liabilities. Think of false justification to invade innocent countries for oil. Vote McCain at your peril. He's an incompetent fool. His POW record is a joke. Anyone who is so utterly incompetent as to be captured by our enemies, is not fit for the presidency and neither is his crooked wretch Sarah Pain. Remember: POW=Pawn Of W (as in GW Bush). Vote for a better future. Vote Obama!

Posted by: Ralph | September 9, 2008 2:51 AM | Report abuse

kevin

as for your digs on patriotism, i ask you, what do you do when you fall in love? assuming you are heterosexual you want to love, please, spend time with and fulfill the needs and desires of the person you are in love with.

that is patriotism, when you fall in love with this country, you wear the stupid little pin, you salute teh stupid little flag, and you put your stupid hand over your stupid little heart, not because you have to, but because you love to.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 2:50 AM | Report abuse

kevin

i understood your argument the first time, and i understand it, but please understand that generalizations are true a majority of the time, its why they exist, if we bicker about them we never get anywhere.

jesus wouldnt have had parables if it wasnt for generalizations.


joe,

the constitution was a dissolving of a contract in contractual form, the very essence of its existance was to provide rights to a people who did not feel they had any. im not sure where your fundamental beleif comes into logical equation. aside from the fact that its leaked into democrat ideology after the formation of the party itself.

none the less my stance on the point overall is still unfettered by your logic. obamas stance on the purpose of the consitution is not only hindering but a fundamentalist interpretation (shared by his church i might add). and fundamentalist interpretations lead to extremist movements. i can understand if obama, like you felt that way, but accusing palin of mocking the constitution because she disagrees with his way of thinking?

thats extremism, on obamas part. you and i are having a civil conversation, i am not saying your wrong, and you are not telling me to shove it, and we both i beleive respect eachothers views to an extent and can even perhaps understand eachothers?

holding a person to a standard that you have is teh essence of extremism. a kkk member himself could be completely non racist in action and still beleive blacks are a lesser race. but when that kkk member demands a black stay in his place, he becomes an extremist, this is the leap obama has made.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 2:46 AM | Report abuse

Kevin

Patriotism has nothing to do with wearing a lapel pin. It has everything to do with understanding that America is great because her people have been great. It means standing up to defend her and never intentionally embarrassing her or putting her in bad light in front of our enemies or giving our enemies comfort by our actions (as Obama does with his cowardly displays of resistance).

For me, it means praying for our leadership and for our soldiers every day. And for me it means exposing Obama for the fraud that he is before he gets a chance to harm America at the cost of my children.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 2:45 AM | Report abuse

I don't know about any of you, but I'm not voting for people who openly disrespect the constitution, as Palin did in her acceptance speech.

Posted by: me | September 9, 2008 2:42 AM | Report abuse

So JimH, what is patriotism in your opinion? I hear all these people point the finger and say so-and-so is patriotic because their not wearing a lapel flag pin or didn't put their hand over their heart during the national anthem. Is that really all it takes to be a patriot? Just some clarification please.

Posted by: Kevin | September 9, 2008 2:41 AM | Report abuse

ironcomment,

your truth is there, but theres as much truth on the right wing conservative blogs that lays claim to obama being muslim.

essentially its a mixture of facts that is meant to lead a person in a direction of thought.


joe,

its the same with the librarian and the troopergate scandal, not only did teh guy she fired in the troopergate scandal announce that it had nothing to do with wooten less than a week after the initial incident (over 2 years ago). the librarian (if i remember right) was fired nearly a year after the alleged INQUISITION on books (hehe).

if you put any two facts together you can lead a persons mindset, thats why newspapers have to be careful not to place articles that suggest things too close together. its how many rumors are started.

again i think the part you miss about occums razor, is the initial part "all things equal". if you ignore the fact that she didnt go through with any legislation, that the librarian at the time didnt feel pressured, and that she had every reason to find out what happens in her jurisdiction and her kids lives...theres really only one way to see it.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 2:38 AM | Report abuse

whilest a conservative stance often winds up with the beleif that habeaus corpus is a privledge allowed to those who are making an effort to cooperate with the situation at hand.

---------

Dale,

I think we fundamentally disagree on the purpose of the constitution. It is not there to grant rights to the people who the government deems cooperative. Every nation on the planet has that, including Iran, North Korea, and Syria.

The constitution exists to intentionally restrict us from taking the easy way out. Certainly it is easy to switch off the rights of people who are causing problems. The point of the document is not to help us do the right thing when it is easy to do the right thing. It exists to force us to do the right thing when it is not easy.

We cannot draw a distinction between the cooperative and the rebellious when it comes to constitutional rights. They either exist in total or they do not exist at all, because if they do not exist in total, that means someone has the power to decide who is protected, and that person becomes the tyrant. The constitution is not the sort of document you can abide by only when it is convenient.

As for our state of wartime, I can't agree that what we have today constitutes a war. If it does, then we will never see the end of wartime, and the very concept of wartime becomes meaningless. You might just as well shorten it to 'time'. I can't imagine that the framers of the constitution would have ever permitted or even envisioned this type of interpretation.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 2:38 AM | Report abuse

Dale,

LOL, guess i'll pry myself off the cross to clarify. first off, the issue I have with comments is that it is the typical framing of the argument that liberals are wide eyed clueless children and conservatives are the experienced know-it-all grownups. I'll admit it does seem that as some people get older they may become more conservative but I could argue just as easily that it happens because they become increasingly entrenched in their out-dated and out-moded nostalgia of what they think the USA use to be. Or maybe they become fearful of change. hard to say. But this is a beside the point. Let me get back on the cross and say that when palin made fun habeus corpus, she made fun of some of the most important aspects of what I believe makes of country great and I was highly offended.

Posted by: Kevin | September 9, 2008 2:35 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who votes Republican this year is more delusional than the candidates they support. In recent weeks, John McCain and the Republican party have blatantly and without any shame adopted the Democratic campaign theme of “change”. It should be evident to an objective observer that Bush 43 and now McCain and Pailin are mere puppets to the true Republican national party leaders who control their strings. Cheney is one of the few of that inner cabal that have been calling the shots since the Nixon administration. They are in fact a continuation of the Nixon and Ford presidencies with only a disruption during the Carter and Clinton years. Bush 41( Head of the RNC during Nixon,former head of the CIA,VP to Reagan, and president is probably the real leader of this political Cosa Nostra if not a equal partner of this power sharing musical chairs game. His right and left hands have been Dick Cheney(former Sec.of Defense of Bush 41, former White House Chief of staff for Ford) and the other is Donald Rumsfeld(former Sec. of Defense for Ford and Bush 43,former special envoy to the Middle East during Reagan). Another member of this group, more likely a captain if not a full blown boss himself is James Baker (former C.O.S of Reagan, former Under Sec. of Commerce for Ford, former C.O.S and Sec of State for Bush 41, former Sec. of Treasury for Reagan, former chief legal advisor to Bush 43). Another captain or free lance enforcer is Karl Rove a college drop out and campaign manager for both Bush 41 and 43, also for Phil Gram who is McCain’s economic advisor.
Lets look at McCain’s staff of change.
On July 2, 2008, Steve Schmidt was given "full operational control" of McCain's campaign. Steve Schmidt prior to this was a top aide to Dick Cheney and a protégé to Karl Rove. Another advisor is Charles R. Black worked for Ronald Reagan's two Presidential campaigns in 1976 and 1980 and he was a senior political adviser to the 1992 re-election campaign of George H.W. Bush. Another advisor is Randy Scheunemann. He was project director for the Project for the New American Century. A neo-conservative think tank founded by non other than Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Bill Kristol and others in 1996. Other signatories to this group reads like a who’s who of the last 8 years of the republican administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century.
These people have never cared about small town america or “values” All they care about is war profiteering. Many of the signatories have never served in the military. Cheney and Rove both dodged the draft. Look at the statement of principles by the PNAC. Rumsfeld was a good friend of Saddam Huessin in the 80’s Cheney didn’t want Nelson Mandela free. These are the real puppet masters, they throw out the talking points about the left of being elitist and not caring about middle america and these same guys other than Rove have advanced degrees and are worth no less than 10 million dollars. People who support them need to extricate their heads out of Limbaugh and Hannity’s asses and see what is really happening to them. McCain is not his own man he confuses stories of his real life with a book he read “The Gulag Archipelago", in which a fellow prisoner - not a guard - silently drew a cross in the dirt with a stick.” An ironic twist to all this is Eliot A. Cohen, a signatory to the PNAC "Statement of Principles", responded in The Washington Post: "There is no evidence that generals as a class make wiser national security policymakers than civilians. George C. Marshall, our greatest soldier statesman after George Washington, opposed shipping arms to Britain in 1940. His boss, Franklin D. Roosevelt, with nary a day in uniform, thought otherwise. Whose judgment looks better?"[
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2581086/John-McCain-accused-of-plagiarising-Wikipedia-for-speeches.html. Even if you don’t like Obama there is no-way a sane person can want this continued blatant fleecing of our Nation.

Thes are all verifiable facts and can be found just with a google search.

Other than the ultra affluent, how can anyone support the Republican party? When will small town America realize that they are being duped into supporting the ultra-affluent agenda. The talking points of the right are so hypocritical that it becomes laughable. The red meat of the right is the so called Main stream Media as if Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. are not part of it. They demean celebrity status, however they tout one of their greatest presidents(Reagan) was an actor. They say they are the party of patriotism, yet many of the upper echelon of the party have never served, i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Reagan. They say that they care about "Main Street" USA but only bail out the Whales of Wall Street. Yet small town America eat this tripe every year. They don't care about relgion unless it can be used to stir up the base, nor science or technology unless there is a buck to be made. Small town America takes pride on its freedom but yet don't realize that over time we are becoming less free, ie wire tapping and other forms of domestic survelliance. They demean people of intelligence because they know many people of small town America don't have degrees and use it at a fake issue and call people who spent time in academia as elitist when many on the right serve on university boards and have part-time professorships. They say they are against affirmitive action but yet celebrate mediocrity, Bush43 and McCain graduating at the bottom of their classes. Who both came from already well established families and had all the opportunities and connections to excel. Why does small town America believes this is the party for them? Christian conservatives seem to the be the first ones who want to go to war and bomb someone before any diplomacy is tried. Why can't small town America and Christian conservatives realize they are being used as pawns just as much the Islamic fundamentalist are. Islamic fundamentalist come from small town Middle East and given the same kind of talking points as the evangalicals. They want prayer in school, no choice available to women, and believe to the core that their ideas about worship and country are the best. Wake up small town America you are being played.

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 2:34 AM | Report abuse

I don't know germanguy but the simple truth never needs embelishments.

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 2:32 AM | Report abuse

germanguy (another name for Ironcomments)

You guys already cut and pasted that talking point. Got anything new or relevant?

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 2:29 AM | Report abuse

joe,

i dont deny that that is a common debate, but the forefathers themselves issued the reality that the wartime clause exists for the express purpose of needing it to in wartime, the question is which is more important, not what does it mean. a liberal would have you beleive that its teh equivalent of small print at the end of a contract, only comprehended or understood by the lawyer who wrote it. whilest a conservative stance often winds up with the beleif that habeaus corpus is a privledge allowed to those who are making an effort to cooperate with the situation at hand.

whether u face teh reality that we are in a war or not, perhaps its not officially declared as a war, but when we are policing other nations and bringing in criminals from them of our own accord, that qualifies as wartime.

no one is saying to suspend it for all people and chuck everyone in jail, tho left wings might have one beleive, however, the fact that it exists as a right to many people proves that it is something easily taken away when a person is outright rebellious. like a mother might take away a late curfew from a rebellious child and make him get home earlier, we have to do the same with REBELLIOUS enemies.

i guess what im saying is there doesnt seem to be a liberal distinction between a rebellious terrorist and a cooperative one.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 2:27 AM | Report abuse

Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But, I repeat myself..... Mark Twain

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 2:27 AM | Report abuse

So many people have asked me about what I know about Sarah Palin in the last 2 days that I decided to write something up . . .

Basically, Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton have only 2 things in common: their gender and their good looks.

You have my permission to forward this to your friends/email contacts with my name and email address attached, but please do not post it on any websites, as there are too many kooks out there . . .

Thanks,
Anne

ABOUT SARAH PALIN

I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Sarah since 1992. Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child’s favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a first name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more City Council meetings during her administration than about 99% of the residents of the city.

She is enormously popular; in every way she’s like the most popular girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice and won’t vote for her can’t quit smiling when talking about her because she is a “babe”.

It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents for seven months.

She is “pro-life”. She recently gave birth to a Down’s syndrome baby. There is no cover-up involved, here; Trig is her baby.

She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the gym.

She is savvy. She doesn’t take positions; she just “puts things out there” and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit.

Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin’s kind of job is highly sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their major source of income. Nor has her life-style ever been anything like that of native Alaskans.

Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters.

She’s smart.

Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000 (at the time), and less than 2 years as governor of a state with about 670,000 residents.

During her mayoral administration most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings which had given rise to a recall campaign.

Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a “fiscal conservative”. During her 6 years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over 33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the City increased by 38%. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.

The huge increases in tax revenues during her mayoral administration weren’t enough to fund everything on her wish list though, borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt, but left it with indebtedness of over $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? or a new library? No. $1m for a park. $15m-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex which she rushed through to build on a piece of property that the City didn’t even have clear title to, that was still in litigation 7 yrs later–to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5m for road projects that could have been done in 5-7 yrs without any borrowing.

While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more than once.

These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.

As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as Governor she proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state.

In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while she proposed distribution of surplus state revenues: spend today’s surplus, borrow for needs.

She’s not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren’t generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren’t evaluated on their merits, but on the basis of who proposed them.

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin’s attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.

Sarah complained about the “old boy’s club” when she first ran for Mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of “old boys”. Palin fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the City and as Governor she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people, creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally grateful and fiercely loyal–loyal to the point of abusing their power to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the case of pressuring the State’s top cop (see below).

As Mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla’s Police Chief because he “intimidated” her, she told the press. As Governor, her recent firing of Alaska’s top cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure and she had every legal right to fire him, but it’s pretty clear that an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn’t fire her sister’s ex-husband, a State Trooper. Under investigation for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than 2 dozen contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew her support.

She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council became one of her first targets when she was later elected Mayor. She abruptly fired her loyal City Administrator; even people who didn’t like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness.

Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything publicly about her.

When then-Governor Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got the best, Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission: one of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no background in oil & gas issues. Within months of scoring this great job which paid $122,400/yr, she was complaining in the press about the high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this Commission (who was also the State Chair of the Republican Party) engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a gutsy fighter against the “old boys’ club” when she dramatically quit, exposing this man’s ethics violations (for which he was fined).

As Mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from Senator Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the “bridge to nowhere” after it became clear that it would be unwise not to.

As Governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative action restored most of these projects–which had been vetoed simply because she was not aware of their importance–but with the unobservant she had gained a reputation as “anti-pork”.

She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The State party leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a fiscal conservative.

Around Wasilla there are people who went to high school with Sarah. They call her “Sarah Barracuda” because of her unbridled ambition and predatory ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly stories circulated around town about shenanigans she pulled to be made point guard on the high school basketball team. When Sarah’s mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and experienced manager, ran for Mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her.

As Governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package of legislation known as “AGIA” that forced the oil companies to march to the beat of her drum.

Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to global warming. She campaigned “as a private citizen” against a state initiaitive that would have either a) protected salmon streams from pollution from mines, or b) tied up in the courts all mining in the state (depending on who you listen to). She has pushed the State’s lawsuit against the Dept. of the Interior’s decision to list polar bears as threatened species.

McCain is the oldest person to ever run for President; Sarah will be a heartbeat away from being President.

There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more knowledgeable and experienced than she.

However, there’s a lot of people who have underestimated her and are regretting it.

CLAIM VS FACT

“Hockey mom”: true for a few years
“PTA mom”: true years ago when her first-born was in elementary school, not since
“NRA supporter”: absolutely true
social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, BUT vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did this because it was unconsitutional).
pro-creationism: mixed. Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to promote it.
“Pro-life”: mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down’s syndrome baby BUT declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation
“Experienced”: Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska. No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city administrator to run town of about 5,000.
political maverick: not at all
gutsy: absolutely!
open & transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at explaining actions.
has a developed philosophy of public policy: no
”a Greenie”: no. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.
fiscal conservative: not by my definition!
pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built streets to early 20th century standards.
pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on residents
pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city government in Wasilla’s history.
pro-labor/pro-union. No. Just because her husband works union doesn’t make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim that she is pro-labor/pro-union.
WHY AM I WRITING THIS?

First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed voter. I am a voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting programs in the schools. If you google my name (Anne Kilkenny + Alaska), you will find references to my participation in local government, education, and PTA/parent organizations.

Secondly, I’ve always operated in the belief that “Bad things happen when good people stay silent”. Few people know as much as I do because few have gone to as many City Council meetings.

Third, I am just a housewife. I don’t have a job she can bump me out of. I don’t belong to any organization that she can hurt. But, I am no fool; she is immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will cost me somehow in the future: that’s life.

Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100 or so people who rallied to support the City Librarian against Sarah’s attempt at censorship.

Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to say anything because they were somehow vulnerable.

CAVEATS
I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in spending & taxation 2 years ago (when Palin was running for Governor) from information supplied to me by the Finance Director of the City of Wasilla, and I can’t recall exactly what I adjusted for: did I adjust for inflation? for population increases? Right now, it is impossible for a private person to get any info out of City Hall–they are swamped. So I can’t verify my numbers.

You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the population of Wasilla, ranging from my “about 5,000″, up to 9,000. The day Palin’s selection was announced a city official told me that the current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was 5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to 2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the mid-90’s.

Anne Kilkenny
August 31, 2008

Posted by: germanguy | September 9, 2008 2:26 AM | Report abuse

jeff

Should we turn to cocaine? Should we abandon what made America great?

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 2:26 AM | Report abuse

Kiwi

McCain heard the American people and reacted. I liked Huckaby, but given the opposition, I'll vote for McCain/Palin. Obama is staying the twisted course. When was he open minded on life or Patriotism?

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 2:24 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe the American people would give another 4 years to Republicans. Is there something in the water there? What exactly do the Republicans have to do to "not" get re-elected.

The rest of the world just shakes it head in sadness. The USA is like that good friend you had in College whose life has spiraled out of control on drugs and booze. They could have been something...sigh

By the way this is an important election for your much loved democracy, not "America's Next Top President". Grow up!

Posted by: jeff | September 9, 2008 2:24 AM | Report abuse

The flag story is Republican propaganda and you expose yourself as either an idiot or a liar for spreading it. Perhaps both. We need to worry about REAL problems instead of your childish fantasies.

Posted by: Liar Exposer | September 9, 2008 2:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't like either of the candidates. Really. Sure, I may be leaning towards Obama, but I was for McCain in 2000, and thought I would be again. I have serious regrets about both of them.

I give Obama credit for giving US credit, he speaks to US, and respects that we may have some education and intelligence. While I have serious misgivings about him as president, I wish I could take one of his classes in university.

The Republicans talk down to me, and their message seems to think I must be an idiot, and don't care about the truth. The one bald faced lie after another, like it is no big deal drives me crazy.


Posted by: BC of Maine | September 9, 2008 2:22 AM | Report abuse

Can anyone refute the facts that I have laid before you? What have I said is not true?

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 2:21 AM | Report abuse

Palin's scandals have touched on the various parallels that Bush's have, including the abuse of power (Bush: Unitary Executive, US Attorney firings etc.; Palin: Troopergate, Loyalty firings), record of fiscal incompetence, the flair for the casual lie, the crazy Christianist angle, the disregard for facts and expertise, etc. But however terrible Bush was, there's no allegation that he's out there lining his own pockets. So here's a scary thought: is Palin a poor man's Dubya? Not only an incompetent, fact-avoiding extremist, but personally corrupt as well?


Posted by: America, if you vote for McCain you'll deserve what you get - More Bush and Cheney thuggery | September 9, 2008 2:21 AM | Report abuse

joe,

again i must state occums razor, that if all things are equal, the most simple of solutions is the most accurate.

to suggest that she acted on them, when nothing was enacted, is to jump to a conclusion that occums razor suggests is a fallacy.

--------

Dale,

In all honesty, I think Occam's Razor goes the other way in this case. The most simple and direct explanation as to why Palin was asking about the banning of books is that she intended to do so. In fact, that is precisely why I assume she intended to.

The more complex and unlikely scenario, if you ask me, is that she was merely stating hypothetical book banning questions to the city librarian and that her termination of the librarian was actually some sort of loyalty test.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 2:20 AM | Report abuse

kevin,

i hate to attack you when your already on the cross, but like many liberals you missed the point of what a conservative said because he made a big bad generalization you took offense to.

jim was simply stating that experience changes peoples perceptions, and whether you beleive it or not, most people in old age become republicans, because what they value changes as they experience more of the world.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 2:20 AM | Report abuse

JIMH...
Obama closed mined?!?! I don't think so, its very clear that McCain is the closeminded option...

Posted by: Kiwi | September 9, 2008 2:19 AM | Report abuse

_______________________
Obama knows, understands, and interprets the law correctly.
.
No wonder, he was first among the graduates at Harvard, and is not a corrupt person.
.
Palin is basically a "pitbull on lipstick" trained to bark for others, and will never understand WHY the constitution upholds "innocence unless proven guilty"; just like Bush, Chenney, and alikes do not understand that TORTURE is a form of punishment, and that punishments for crimes are applied as per ESTABLISHED LAW, and only AFTER proven guilty.
________________________
=I am El Mugroso, and I approve this message=

Posted by: El Mugroso | September 9, 2008 2:18 AM | Report abuse

The Constitution? That quaint old document? It means whatever you want it to mean, unless it doesn't. Republicans hate the constitution, they hate lawyers, they hate true freedom. Why? Because it challenges the powerful, the rich, the Government, Tyranny. It protects is all from the few. It protects the few from the many. If they can do it to Blacks, Mexicans, Catholics, Jews, Mulsims? They can do it to you.

Welcome to the American Taleban's 21st century inquisition. All suspicious people will be held until they can prove that they're not a threat to .....

Posted by: thebob.bob | September 9, 2008 2:18 AM | Report abuse

Face it

Sarah the barracuda is a fish out of water.

She is not prepared to lead let alone take questions from the "scary" media.

McCain had endangered the entire planet to win an election.

As the American say goes for all you patriots: Lead, Follow or Get out of the way.

Looks like she is Gettin out of the way.

Not interested in excuses. This absence from the media sealed the deal for me.

Posted by: VP debates | September 9, 2008 2:17 AM | Report abuse

obviously according to the forefathers who wrote the words, the wartime clause was meant to suspend the necessity of habeaus corpus, because it was necessary in all wartime to suspend it.

------

Dale,

The wartime clause exists because it clearly has to be there in an imperfect world. We as a nation operate in a mode of liberty 99.9% of the time, and we agree to suspend those liberties in the 0.1% of the time needed to ensure our survival. But the purpose of suspending habeas corpus is strictly for the sake of defending the constitution and our freedom. The wartime clause says that 'We understand that there may be rare occasions when we have to suspend this right in order to defend it.'

It is certainly not essential that we suspend habeas corpus in wartime, and to my knowledge, it has only suspended twice, during the Civil War and World War II.

Even so, the War on Terror is an ideological war. It doesn't represent the 0.1% of the time we should suspend our ideals in their defense. It is an ongoing affair, and the proposition seems to be that we should suspend our ideals indefinitely.

We as Americans should be terrified of the prospect of handing over rights to the government. If there's one thing we as a nation should know better than anybody else, it is that once you give them up, you will never get them back without a long and painful fight. This is why Franklin said that those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

And I suppose to draw this back on topic, I think these are the ideas Obama is most concerned with. As a student of constitutional law, I am sure the treatment of habeas corpus over the last four years has been a very bitter pill for him to swallow. Even if you don't like the man's policies, he is right when it comes to this. Our constitution is all we have, and although it is not pleasant to admit, security from terrorist attacks comes second to that.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 2:15 AM | Report abuse

joe,

again i must state occums razor, that if all things are equal, the most simple of solutions is the most accurate.

to suggest that she acted on them, when nothing was enacted, is to jump to a conclusion that occums razor suggests is a fallacy.

we (and i mean people in general) love to beleive that things are conspiracys, it makes for a great 2 and a half hour movie, but in reality most people are incapable of a decent conspiracy.

(heck look at nixon, he wasnt even doing something that sneaky or underhanded, but he was obvious and easily caught).

but when it comes down to it, most people arent so secretive and sly.

sure, you could argue, if you previously assumed that palin was underhanded, that all the acts she did were an elaborate ploy to toy along the populous for an 80% approval rating while maintaining political office. but couldnt you do that with any candidate? so why sarah palin? why not someone more likely to be corrupt like a chicago politician?

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 2:15 AM | Report abuse

JimH,

You, sir, are a angry sad little troll. people like you go on to web sites like this spewing your republican talking points with no regards to the actual content of the article. everyone, left, center, and right should be worried about the erosion of our civil liberties. It may be the brown skinned terrorist named Mohamed now but it is slippery slope to teenager named jim that is handing out anti government fliers on the street corner.

Oh, just for your info I'm a life long liberal that has worked since i was 16, moved out of my parents house at 18 and own my small business. Just because you have a small minded and myopic view of the world doesn't mean that everyone fits into your narrow views.

Posted by: Kevin | September 9, 2008 2:14 AM | Report abuse

For those of you who believe we are at war-- you are mistaken. Our involvement in Iraq is an incursion/military engagement. Being at war sets up a different set of rules, like how to handle prisoners.

One reason the US + its allies claimed an incursion was necessary was, in part, to stop Sadam torturing people.

Have folks who advocate torture forgotten the pics of Americans (male and female) torturing Iraqs? So much for our ideals, and so much for America being the role model to the rest of the "heathens" around the world.

Posted by: karvictho | September 9, 2008 2:13 AM | Report abuse

Ironcomments

Man you Obamaphiles are a nuisance with your cut and paste talking points and closed minds. It won't play well in the debates.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 2:10 AM | Report abuse

joseph A.,

i suggest you recheck sarah palin's views, as well as john mccains, no Christian social conservative would find her views extreme if they looked at the unbiased fact checks and various myth debunking websites across the board. i can understand how you might be sour towards the concept of war and the direction of teh republican party having been in those particular conflicts. however, what you undoubtedly fought for while you were over there was a future, a future for your children (?) or the people you love.

if nothing else, you must see that obamas plans for america will bankrupt us, not just financially, but morally and ethically. perhaps you dont like mccain, or palin, but the question is, who will your vote affect the most, and in what way. because a vote for barack, will do more to destroy dreams, then create them.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 2:08 AM | Report abuse

"Simply said it was a good idea" to ban books? Oh, that makes me feel much better.

Posted by: J | September 9, 2008 2:07 AM | Report abuse

The truth must be told and repeated until people realize that the same people have been running the show almost un-emcumbered for over 30 years.

Anyone who votes Republican this year is more delusional than the candidates they support. In recent weeks, John McCain and the Republican party have blatantly and without any shame adopted the Democratic campaign theme of “change”. It should be evident to an objective observer that Bush 43 and now McCain and Pailin are mere puppets to the true Republican national party leaders who control their strings. Cheney is one of the few of that inner cabal that have been calling the shots since the Nixon administration. They are in fact a continuation of the Nixon and Ford presidencies with only a disruption during the Carter and Clinton years. Bush 41( Head of the RNC during Nixon,former head of the CIA,VP to Reagan, and president is probably the real leader of this political Cosa Nostra if not a equal partner of this power sharing musical chairs game. His right and left hands have been Dick Cheney(former Sec.of Defense of Bush 41, former White House Chief of staff for Ford) and the other is Donald Rumsfeld(former Sec. of Defense for Ford and Bush 43,former special envoy to the Middle East during Reagan). Another member of this group, more likely a captain if not a full blown boss himself is James Baker (former C.O.S of Reagan, former Under Sec. of Commerce for Ford, former C.O.S and Sec of State for Bush 41, former Sec. of Treasury for Reagan, former chief legal advisor to Bush 43). Another captain or free lance enforcer is Karl Rove a college drop out and campaign manager for both Bush 41 and 43, also for Phil Gram who is McCain’s economic advisor.
Lets look at McCain’s staff of change.
On July 2, 2008, Steve Schmidt was given "full operational control" of McCain's campaign. Steve Schmidt prior to this was a top aide to Dick Cheney and a protégé to Karl Rove. Another advisor is Charles R. Black worked for Ronald Reagan's two Presidential campaigns in 1976 and 1980 and he was a senior political adviser to the 1992 re-election campaign of George H.W. Bush. Another advisor is Randy Scheunemann. He was project director for the Project for the New American Century. A neo-conservative think tank founded by non other than Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Bill Kristol and others in 1996. Other signatories to this group reads like a who’s who of the last 8 years of the republican administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century.
These people have never cared about small town america or “values” All they care about is war profiteering. Many of the signatories have never served in the military. Cheney and Rove both dodged the draft. Look at the statement of principles by the PNAC. Rumsfeld was a good friend of Saddam Huessin in the 80’s Cheney didn’t want Nelson Mandela free. These are the real puppet masters, they throw out the talking points about the left of being elitist and not caring about middle america and these same guys other than Rove have advanced degrees and are worth no less than 10 million dollars. People who support them need to extricate their heads out of Limbaugh and Hannity’s asses and see what is really happening to them. McCain is not his own man he confuses stories of his real life with a book he read “The Gulag Archipelago", in which a fellow prisoner - not a guard - silently drew a cross in the dirt with a stick.” An ironic twist to all this is Eliot A. Cohen, a signatory to the PNAC "Statement of Principles", responded in The Washington Post: "There is no evidence that generals as a class make wiser national security policymakers than civilians. George C. Marshall, our greatest soldier statesman after George Washington, opposed shipping arms to Britain in 1940. His boss, Franklin D. Roosevelt, with nary a day in uniform, thought otherwise. Whose judgment looks better?"[
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2581086/John-McCain-accused-of-plagiarising-Wikipedia-for-speeches.html. Even if you don’t like Obama there is no-way a sane person can want this continued blatant fleecing of our Nation.

Thes are all verifiable facts and can be found just with a google search.

Other than the ultra affluent, how can anyone support the Republican party? When will small town America realize that they are being duped into supporting the ultra-affluent agenda. The talking points of the right are so hypocritical that it becomes laughable. The red meat of the right is the so called Main stream Media as if Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. are not part of it. They demean celebrity status, however they tout one of their greatest presidents(Reagan) was an actor. They say they are the party of patriotism, yet many of the upper echelon of the party have never served, i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Reagan. They say that they care about "Main Street" USA but only bail out the Whales of Wall Street. Yet small town America eat this tripe every year. They don't care about relgion unless it can be used to stir up the base, nor science or technology unless there is a buck to be made. Small town America takes pride on its freedom but yet don't realize that over time we are becoming less free, ie wire tapping and other forms of domestic survelliance. They demean people of intelligence because they know many people of small town America don't have degrees and use it at a fake issue and call people who spent time in academia as elitist when many on the right serve on university boards and have part-time professorships. They say they are against affirmitive action but yet celebrate mediocrity, Bush43 and McCain graduating at the bottom of their classes. Who both came from already well established families and had all the opportunities and connections to excel. Why does small town America believes this is the party for them? Christian conservatives seem to the be the first ones who want to go to war and bomb someone before any diplomacy is tried. Why can't small town America and Christian conservatives realize they are being used as pawns just as much the Islamic fundamentalist are. Islamic fundamentalist come from small town Middle East and given the same kind of talking points as the evangalicals. They want prayer in school, no choice available to women, and believe to the core that their ideas about worship and country are the best. Wake up small town America you are being played.

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 2:06 AM | Report abuse

and joe while you make a great point and only one person is debating you on the book banning concept, sarah palin did not attempt to ban books or teach creation in schools, she simply stated she thought it was a good idea.

---------------

It's true that she did not explicitly ask to have books banned. But the questions she asked were clearly leading in that direction, and her decision to try to fire the librarian after she flatly refused the prospect is extremely telling in that regard. As for creationism, I agree -- she is on the record as saying she does not think schools should be forced to teach creationism. Personally, I don't think it belongs in schools for the purposes of debate unless we are willing to admit all creation stories for the purposes of debate, but that is neither here nor there. Her personal beliefs don't bother me so long as they stay personal.

and the reality is SOME areas should ban books, NOT universally. but a school is not a place for pornography, as such playboy should not liter our public school librarys.

-------------

I don't necessarily disagree with you there, but we aren't talking about a school library, either. This is the city's public library, and there is a civic responsibility to uphold. The fundamental concern in my mind is that Palin believed that certain types of books might be inappropriate and that she began, however unsuccessfully, to act on those beliefs. That is quite simply 'not okay' in America.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 2:03 AM | Report abuse

well jimh unfortunately i am in the same boat as that generalization, so i wont speak out against it, but i have quite easily been a conservative all my life, my faith teaches me to put the good of the country and the world before myself, and tho i might find advantages in being able to get my girlfriend pregnant, having an abortion so i dont face teh consquences, getting health care i didnt earn, and handouts like my abusive mother took when she was ignoring her children. my experience has taught me that what will strengthen me is not whining for handouts as i did when i was 5, but facing rock bottom and giving up or putting forth an effort.

my mother gave up, and took handouts with ease and no guilt. and it never motivated her to try any harder, that is not a lesson i want my kids to learn or a life i want them to go through. even if it means i never make something GREAT of myself, because i dont have that kind of ambition, at least my kids wont beleive they deserve more than they earn. at least htey will learn that giving up, is never an option.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 2:01 AM | Report abuse

I want multiple VP debates and I want them NOW. No teleprompters, scripts, nothing.

I want multiple VP debates and I want them NOW. No teleprompters, scripts, nothing.

I know Biden is ready.

McSame is a Fraud. Oh lets the excuses from Repugnant Republicans.


Posted by: Todd, CA | September 9, 2008 2:00 AM | Report abuse

As a vet (both Iraq conflicts) and a life-long Republican, This time I will vote for the responsible candidates Obama/Biden. I've been a big fan of Biden for many many years even though he is a Democrat. George W. Bush has destroyed the Republican brand, and this is the driving force behind the McCain campaign. I don't think McCain is fit for service and everyday I become more convinced that Gov. Palin is no different than the Bushies. In fact, her views are too extreme in my view (I'm a Christian and social conservative.)

Posted by: Joseph A. | September 9, 2008 1:58 AM | Report abuse

IronComments

Come on now; you alrady copied and pasted that talking point memo. You guys must be running pretty scared after what your guy has done to himself these last 2 days.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 1:57 AM | Report abuse

"Is Obama so hungry to get elected that he's lost all touch with reality? Does he believe that John McCain is still in the Armed Forces or As Senator of Arizona is the Commander in Chief??????????"

That statement is ridiculous...The whole point is that Mccain and others diverted attention from the real terrorists of 9/11...to These cowards Saddam Hussein and Iraq...If Mccain really was going to follow him to the gates of hell, why did he vote to divert resources to Iraq in the first place? And now hes the only one not on board to get out, and move resources to get the real terrorists Al Qaeda...He wants to stay in Iraq and continue to waste taxpayers money

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 1:57 AM | Report abuse

Dale

It is a fact that the vast majority of Obamaphiles are depending on either their parents of the goodness of America for their next meal. Funny thing about how liberals become conservatives when they get a job and a life.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 1:55 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who votes Republican this year is more delusional than the candidates they support. In recent weeks, John McCain and the Republican party have blatantly and without any shame adopted the Democratic campaign theme of “change”. It should be evident to an objective observer that Bush 43 and now McCain and Pailin are mere puppets to the true Republican national party leaders who control their strings. Cheney is one of the few of that inner cabal that have been calling the shots since the Nixon administration. They are in fact a continuation of the Nixon and Ford presidencies with only a disruption during the Carter and Clinton years. Bush 41( Head of the RNC during Nixon,former head of the CIA,VP to Reagan, and president is probably the real leader of this political Cosa Nostra if not a equal partner of this power sharing musical chairs game. His right and left hands have been Dick Cheney(former Sec.of Defense of Bush 41, former White House Chief of staff for Ford) and the other is Donald Rumsfeld(former Sec. of Defense for Ford and Bush 43,former special envoy to the Middle East during Reagan). Another member of this group, more likely a captain if not a full blown boss himself is James Baker (former C.O.S of Reagan, former Under Sec. of Commerce for Ford, former C.O.S and Sec of State for Bush 41, former Sec. of Treasury for Reagan, former chief legal advisor to Bush 43). Another captain or free lance enforcer is Karl Rove a college drop out and campaign manager for both Bush 41 and 43, also for Phil Gram who is McCain’s economic advisor.
Lets look at McCain’s staff of change.
On July 2, 2008, Steve Schmidt was given "full operational control" of McCain's campaign. Steve Schmidt prior to this was a top aide to Dick Cheney and a protégé to Karl Rove. Another advisor is Charles R. Black worked for Ronald Reagan's two Presidential campaigns in 1976 and 1980 and he was a senior political adviser to the 1992 re-election campaign of George H.W. Bush. Another advisor is Randy Scheunemann. He was project director for the Project for the New American Century. A neo-conservative think tank founded by non other than Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Bill Kristol and others in 1996. Other signatories to this group reads like a who’s who of the last 8 years of the republican administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century.
These people have never cared about small town america or “values” All they care about is war profiteering. Many of the signatories have never served in the military. Cheney and Rove both dodged the draft. Look at the statement of principles by the PNAC. Rumsfeld was a good friend of Saddam Huessin in the 80’s Cheney didn’t want Nelson Mandela free. These are the real puppet masters, they throw out the talking points about the left of being elitist and not caring about middle america and these same guys other than Rove have advanced degrees and are worth no less than 10 million dollars. People who support them need to extricate their heads out of Limbaugh and Hannity’s asses and see what is really happening to them. McCain is not his own man he confuses stories of his real life with a book he read “The Gulag Archipelago", in which a fellow prisoner - not a guard - silently drew a cross in the dirt with a stick.” An ironic twist to all this is Eliot A. Cohen, a signatory to the PNAC "Statement of Principles", responded in The Washington Post: "There is no evidence that generals as a class make wiser national security policymakers than civilians. George C. Marshall, our greatest soldier statesman after George Washington, opposed shipping arms to Britain in 1940. His boss, Franklin D. Roosevelt, with nary a day in uniform, thought otherwise. Whose judgment looks better?"[
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2581086/John-McCain-accused-of-plagiarising-Wikipedia-for-speeches.html. Even if you don’t like Obama there is no-way a sane person can want this continued blatant fleecing of our Nation.

Thes are all verifiable facts and can be found just with a google search.

Other than the ultra affluent, how can anyone support the Republican party? When will small town America realize that they are being duped into supporting the ultra-affluent agenda. The talking points of the right are so hypocritical that it becomes laughable. The red meat of the right is the so called Main stream Media as if Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. are not part of it. They demean celebrity status, however they tout one of their greatest presidents(Reagan) was an actor. They say they are the party of patriotism, yet many of the upper echelon of the party have never served, i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Reagan. They say that they care about "Main Street" USA but only bail out the Whales of Wall Street. Yet small town America eat this tripe every year. They don't care about relgion unless it can be used to stir up the base, nor science or technology unless there is a buck to be made. Small town America takes pride on its freedom but yet don't realize that over time we are becoming less free, ie wire tapping and other forms of domestic survelliance. They demean people of intelligence because they know many people of small town America don't have degrees and use it at a fake issue and call people who spent time in academia as elitist when many on the right serve on university boards and have part-time professorships. They say they are against affirmitive action but yet celebrate mediocrity, Bush43 and McCain graduating at the bottom of their classes. Who both came from already well established families and had all the opportunities and connections to excel. Why does small town America believes this is the party for them? Christian conservatives seem to the be the first ones who want to go to war and bomb someone before any diplomacy is tried. Why can't small town America and Christian conservatives realize they are being used as pawns just as much the Islamic fundamentalist are. Islamic fundamentalist come from small town Middle East and given the same kind of talking points as the evangalicals. They want prayer in school, no choice available to women, and believe to the core that their ideas about worship and country are the best. Wake up small town America you are being played.

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 1:54 AM | Report abuse

joe,

only if you assume that the revolutionary forefathers focused on habeus corpus for the british during thier succession. wherein historical fact would argue differently. obviously according to the forefathers who wrote the words, the wartime clause was meant to suspend the necessity of habeaus corpus, because it was necessary in all wartime to suspend it.

why else would they suggest a clause that according to obama we should not follow?

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 1:53 AM | Report abuse

McSame picked an ethics challenged creationist cheerleader (Palin) as his running-mate and now Palin won't talk to the press (and we all know why) yet she gets up and makes some dumbass speech everyday where she's calling out Democrats, Obama, Biden etc....and the freaking corporate media runs with it?!?!

Where the hell does she get off calling out ANYONE when she's to damn afraid of having to go off script (Charlie Gibson?...pleeeease) and answer some questions from the media? And there are a LOT of questions she needs to answer to...

I know in these tough economic times it's sometimes hard to remember how many houses you own but C'mon Corporate Media, Do Your Damn Job For Once!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxT0s_I5WtA


Posted by: ace mcfunkenstein | September 9, 2008 1:51 AM | Report abuse

Excuse me BO---------How about don't cheat the system Mr Caucus fraud. New info coming to light about primary fraud in OH too. Get off your high horse you cheater.

http://www.lynettelong.com/CAUCUSFRAUD/

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 1:51 AM | Report abuse

lol jim, i still have hopes that liberals are duped by the fact that they love fancy words that they dont put into visual physical realities. so i put up the visual of thier 5 year old daughter walking around kindergarten with a playgirl magazine as an attempt to appeal to thier somewhat common decency.

im sorry to say to the conservative base that i have not yet given up hope on our lost liberals.

besides, as anyone knows the basic liberal base is 18-35, those who face a mid life crisis and ask themselves what is of value in life become republicans, someone has to welcome them to the party ;). ill be the doorman.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 1:49 AM | Report abuse

joe,

its not about her brivado or his taste in attacking it, its in his beleif that its a constitutional issue.

---------

The problem is, it may very well be a constitutional issue. The constitution has this to say about habeas corpus:

"The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it."

It does not expressly restrict the right to American citizens. Instead, it imposes a restriction on the justice system itself. There has been a lot of legal discussion over the last 200 years about who this should apply to, and naturally, in war time, the President is capable of suspending this right altogether.

The Supreme Court has recently supported the prospect that foreign nationals cannot simply be stripped of habeas corpus rights, and the Military Commissions Act has tried to step around that ruling by naming certain people enemy combatants.

So (like many things), depending on your interpretation of the constitution, this may absolutely be a constitutional issue. Obama is not really off the mark in mentioning it as such, since the right (or lack thereof) stems directly from the constitution itself.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 1:49 AM | Report abuse

This ad says it all!

The Repukelicans are stupid and they're hoping that Americans will fall for the KKKarl Rove dog and poney show all over again like they did in 2000 and 2004. The GOoPer's try to appeal to low info voters who don't have time to fact check their fascist bs crap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOekhhuN99A
.

Posted by: astral99 | September 9, 2008 1:45 AM | Report abuse

Dale

Are you kidding? These libs argued that it is OK to allow pedophiles to view their pornography in the public library. Fact in Chicago (liberal laboratory).

Funny thing was that when some joker painted a picture of their man Harold Washington in ladies underwear; they march in force to take it down. Same hypocrites who just a few weeks earlier rose to defend the American hating art student who used an American flag as a doormat and then showed up on Donahue to claim that the only flag he loved was the flag of Red China.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 1:45 AM | Report abuse

It's amazing how many people here are arguing that Obama's Harvard Law School education, his history of teaching constitutional law, and his intelligence are BAD things.

The president and vice-president swear to uphold the constitution. Wouldn't it be nice if we actually had some elected leaders who know what the constitution says and who understand it? People who want an idiot for president deserve what they get: 4 more years of George Bush.

Posted by: Di | September 9, 2008 1:45 AM | Report abuse

Pro-woman-Anti Palin

Must be lonely out there. Up till now you had to hang your hopes on clowns like Hillary, Boxer and Feinstein. Man, I hope these clowns never get a chance to draft my daughter and send her out to fight for the UN.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 1:41 AM | Report abuse

I hope this comes up at the debates...I want to see McCain lose it in front of America as he is caught not understanding or respecting our Constitution. And Caribou Barbie too. C'mon karma! Make it happen!


Posted by: Don't get to comfortable with your little convention bounce, Wingnuts! | September 9, 2008 1:37 AM | Report abuse

and joe while you make a great point and only one person is debating you on the book banning concept, sarah palin did not attempt to ban books or teach creation in schools, she simply stated she thought it was a good idea.

and the reality is SOME areas should ban books, NOT universally. but a school is not a place for pornography, as such playboy should not liter our public school librarys.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 1:34 AM | Report abuse

Pro-woman-Anti Palin
Pro-woman-Anti Palin
Pro-woman-Anti Palin
Pro-woman-Anti Palin
Pro-woman-Anti Palin
Pro-woman-Anti Palin

You are embarassing to most of us. Please go back to Alaska and take your OUTDATED views and beliefs with you.

Posted by: Pro-woman-Anti Palin | September 9, 2008 1:33 AM | Report abuse

Prove it, you toothless redneck Wingnut!

You can't because you're lying again and you know it...

---------------------

obama did not teach con law for 10+ years, he was the equivalent of a substitute and an intern. not ever qualified to teach law professionally.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 1:29 AM

Posted by: GOP IQ = ZERO! | September 9, 2008 1:33 AM | Report abuse

"What part of the Constitution states that foreign nationals captured by soldiers overseas in war time are entitled to habeus corpus? Show me that section in the Constitution. I can't find it."

The way it's written: "The right of habeus corpus shall not be infringed." It doesn't say that only some people get the right, it says the right itself doesn't get infringed. The Supreme Court has ruled multiple times over the last 2 centuries that habeus corpus does indeed apply to foreign nationals. As for "in war time," we're not at war as far as the Constitution is concerned.

That's where.

Posted by: El Bruce | September 9, 2008 1:32 AM | Report abuse

obama did not teach con law for 10+ years, he was the equivalent of a substitute and an intern. not ever qualified to teach law professionally.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 1:29 AM | Report abuse

freelyb,

democrats also suffer from a fundamental beleif that IQ equates to intelligence, a beleif that is not shared by any educated person or scientist.

einstiens iq was 120, mensa is filled with people over 140, what great things have mensa alumni done for the world? in comparison to thier iq not alot. yet its the uneducated like bill gates who chose to pursue learning on thier own and made greateness.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 1:27 AM | Report abuse

Joe said:"Nonetheless, the intent appears to have been there. That she was unable to ban books successfully is no reason to forgive her for trying. There is no room in American politics for that type of thinking."

How about bomb making books or drug labs or?

------------

It is as inappropriate to ban bomb-making books as it is to ban Bambi. It is inappropriate to banish ideas at all in this country, for two very good reasons: (1) in a free society, you cannot give *anybody* the power to decide which ideas are allowed and which ideas are not allowed, and (2) one day, you may very well need to know how to make bombs yourself if for some reason (1) isn't correctly observed. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, after all.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 1:27 AM | Report abuse

Here's the thing, not only did Obama teach Con Law for 10+ years, Joe Biden taught Con Law too.

The VP and POTUS, BOTH constitutional scholars.

How does that sound, compared to 5th from the bottom of his class during undergrad (McCain), combined with barely managed to finish undergrad in, uhm. Journalism(Palin)?

Posted by: They're called Rethuglican knuckledraggers for a very good reason | September 9, 2008 1:24 AM | Report abuse

joe,

its not about her brivado or his taste in attacking it, its in his beleif that its a constitutional issue.

the extremists in any country, religion, sect, or race, begin thier beliefs fundamentally by interpreting a document in ways that it never expressly suggested.

as an example: the klu klux klan is a fundamentalist christian group that beleives certain references to white being the light means that blacks are a form of life that is less valid.

its a fundamental reality that extremists start where obama started with palin, overexaggerating the interpretations of the constitution to push an agenda.

THAT is why it IS a big deal.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 1:24 AM | Report abuse

INDEPENDENT FOR OBAMA

Some freedom is better than none.

Independents unite and get save us from being the laughingstock of other countries.

We can vote for Nader or Ron Paul later. Stop the war machine. Check out Sarah script she had to have the world nuclear written NEW-CLEAR.

GW in a dress.

Posted by: Pro woman-Anti Palin | September 9, 2008 1:24 AM | Report abuse

Is anyone else tired of the least educated, least educable among us running the show? Why can't we just call it like it is? On average, Republicans are not only less educated, but less teachable. There is a definite and sizable average IQ difference between Dems and Republicans. In fact,Dems as a group have reached higher levels of intellectual, emotional, and spiritual development. They tend to be more introspective, a prerequisite for clear decision-making. These are positive achievements, not things to apologize for or hide from. The wisest among us should lead. It's that simple.

Posted by: freelyb | September 9, 2008 1:23 AM | Report abuse

phil,

thanks again for proving obama is a celebrity, the good guy is only physically attractive in hollywood, in real life hes scared by his acheivements.

i cant think of any of the candidates who are scared by thier history, i mean they can both raise thier hands above thier head...no wait ... woops.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 1:20 AM | Report abuse

How sad to see people using language that was used during the reconstruction of this country to demean Barack Obama.

I am really sad for you; I am sad for your children, please understand that we are all people, if you disagree on policy , fine, but to take away all someone has accomplished because they are different from you is very elememtary. Please think before you say some of the things said here.

Posted by: Jmnj | September 9, 2008 1:18 AM | Report abuse

What part of the Constitution states that foreign nationals captured by soldiers overseas in war time are entitled to habeus corpus? Show me that section in the Constitution. I can't find it.

-----------

Agreed, the constitution never specifically grants habeas corpus to foreign nationals (although it does not explicitly grant it to citizens alone, either). It seems clear that prisoners of war are not protected by our constitution, but foreign nationals who have been detained are up for debate.

I think the real problem here is the definition of 'war time'. With the way the current war on terror has been framed, there will never be an end to 'war time'. As long as there's a single bad guy out there in the world who wants to blow us up, you could argue we're still fighting the war on terror. By that definition, we've always been fighting the war on terror, and we always will be. Does that mean this is 'war time'? Would it be appropriate to declare marshal law, suspend habeas corpus, or intern particular immigrants?

I agree that is it hard to find the right place to draw the line when it comes to the rights of people we think are trying to attack us. But Obama is not wrong when he says that 'this is who we are'. The fundamental founding principle of this nation was freedom from tyranny, not assurance that nothing bad will ever happen to you. It is appropriate to defend the nation as vigorously as we possibly can and protect people to the greatest extent we're able, but not at the expense of our core principles.

In any case, he is taking exception to Palin dismissing due process for the sake of bravado. It's not really a voting issue, but he is certainly on the right side of it. It is in poor taste to take it so lightly.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 1:18 AM | Report abuse

ya, and the guy who signed that bill, is the guy that palin kicked out of office. and took over his job. next?

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 1:15 AM | Report abuse

Breaking News

Well thought out. I wonder if Obama will use it in his next debate. It has more truth to it than most of what he says. 3 to 1, McCain could still take him mano-a-mano.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 1:12 AM | Report abuse

Fantastic speech by Obama!

It seems we have a fighter this time. It reminds me of "Liberty Valance" the movie with Jimmy Stewart. Obama is Jimmy, the peaceful man bringing law to the west and Palin is Liberty Valance the "sack of Idaho potatoes" who lies about everything and kills (moose and polar bears) without a second thought. We know how that turned out - the good guy won!

Posted by: Philip Taylor | September 9, 2008 1:11 AM | Report abuse

McCain is an old fart.

Posted by: Breaking News | September 9, 2008 1:07 AM | Report abuse

http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2000/05/23/news.txt

HOLY COW. Read this:
'While the Alaska State Troopers and most municipal police agencies have covered the cost of exams, which cost between $300 to $1,200 apiece, the Wasilla police department does charge the victims of sexual assault for the tests.'

Article was written May 23, 2000. Palin had already been the mayor for four years and would be mayor for two more.

Yes - it means Wasilla would charge the victims for their rape-kit.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 1:06 AM | Report abuse

careful jimh, they might tag us as christian extremists if we suggest that evolution doesnt explain everything ;).

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 1:03 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who votes Republican this year is more delusional than the candidates they support. In recent weeks, John McCain and the Republican party have blatantly and without any shame adopted the Democratic campaign theme of “change”. It should be evident to an objective observer that Bush 43 and now McCain and Pailin are mere puppets to the true Republican national party leaders who control their strings. Cheney is one of the few of that inner cabal that have been calling the shots since the Nixon administration. They are in fact a continuation of the Nixon and Ford presidencies with only a disruption during the Carter and Clinton years. Bush 41( Head of the RNC during Nixon,former head of the CIA,VP to Reagan, and president is probably the real leader of this political Cosa Nostra if not a equal partner of this power sharing musical chairs game. His right and left hands have been Dick Cheney(former Sec.of Defense of Bush 41, former White House Chief of staff for Ford) and the other is Donald Rumsfeld(former Sec. of Defense for Ford and Bush 43,former special envoy to the Middle East during Reagan). Another member of this group, more likely a captain if not a full blown boss himself is James Baker (former C.O.S of Reagan, former Under Sec. of Commerce for Ford, former C.O.S and Sec of State for Bush 41, former Sec. of Treasury for Reagan, former chief legal advisor to Bush 43). Another captain or free lance enforcer is Karl Rove a college drop out and campaign manager for both Bush 41 and 43, also for Phil Gram who is McCain’s economic advisor.
Lets look at McCain’s staff of change.
On July 2, 2008, Steve Schmidt was given "full operational control" of McCain's campaign. Steve Schmidt prior to this was a top aide to Dick Cheney and a protégé to Karl Rove. Another advisor is Charles R. Black worked for Ronald Reagan's two Presidential campaigns in 1976 and 1980 and he was a senior political adviser to the 1992 re-election campaign of George H.W. Bush. Another advisor is Randy Scheunemann. He was project director for the Project for the New American Century. A neo-conservative think tank founded by non other than Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Bill Kristol and others in 1996. Other signatories to this group reads like a who’s who of the last 8 years of the republican administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century.
These people have never cared about small town america or “values” All they care about is war profiteering. Many of the signatories have never served in the military. Cheney and Rove both dodged the draft. Look at the statement of principles by the PNAC. Rumsfeld was a good friend of Saddam Huessin in the 80’s Cheney didn’t want Nelson Mandela free. These are the real puppet masters, they throw out the talking points about the left of being elitist and not caring about middle america and these same guys other than Rove have advanced degrees and are worth no less than 10 million dollars. People who support them need to extricate their heads out of Limbaugh and Hannity’s asses and see what is really happening to them. McCain is not his own man he confuses stories of his real life with a book he read “The Gulag Archipelago", in which a fellow prisoner - not a guard - silently drew a cross in the dirt with a stick.” An ironic twist to all this is Eliot A. Cohen, a signatory to the PNAC "Statement of Principles", responded in The Washington Post: "There is no evidence that generals as a class make wiser national security policymakers than civilians. George C. Marshall, our greatest soldier statesman after George Washington, opposed shipping arms to Britain in 1940. His boss, Franklin D. Roosevelt, with nary a day in uniform, thought otherwise. Whose judgment looks better?"[
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2581086/John-McCain-accused-of-plagiarising-Wikipedia-for-speeches.html. Even if you don’t like Obama there is no-way a sane person can want this continued blatant fleecing of our Nation.

Thes are all verifiable facts and can be found just with a google search.

Other than the ultra affluent, how can anyone support the Republican party? When will small town America realize that they are being duped into supporting the ultra-affluent agenda. The talking points of the right are so hypocritical that it becomes laughable. The red meat of the right is the so called Main stream Media as if Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. are not part of it. They demean celebrity status, however they tout one of their greatest presidents(Reagan) was an actor. They say they are the party of patriotism, yet many of the upper echelon of the party have never served, i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Reagan. They say that they care about "Main Street" USA but only bail out the Whales of Wall Street. Yet small town America eat this tripe every year. They don't care about relgion unless it can be used to stir up the base, nor science or technology unless there is a buck to be made. Small town America takes pride on its freedom but yet don't realize that over time we are becoming less free, ie wire tapping and other forms of domestic survelliance. They demean people of intelligence because they know many people of small town America don't have degrees and use it at a fake issue and call people who spent time in academia as elitist when many on the right serve on university boards and have part-time professorships. They say they are against affirmitive action but yet celebrate mediocrity, Bush43 and McCain graduating at the bottom of their classes. Who both came from already well established families and had all the opportunities and connections to excel. Why does small town America believes this is the party for them? Christian conservatives seem to the be the first ones who want to go to war and bomb someone before any diplomacy is tried. Why can't small town America and Christian conservatives realize they are being used as pawns just as much the Islamic fundamentalist are. Islamic fundamentalist come from small town Middle East and given the same kind of talking points as the evangalicals. They want prayer in school, no choice available to women, and believe to the core that their ideas about worship and country are the best. Wake up small town America you are being played.

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 1:01 AM | Report abuse

"Looks like the die-hard racist Republicans snorted a pack of meth and took over the thread for awhile. I'm grateful for all of the racist comments that the Republican writers made. They serve to remind the rest of us who votes for Republican candidates."

Can't see the truth right in front of you? Your black candidate is the one that's racist. In his book he states that he wants to help only the "black community", has "black leaders", and prefers black strangers over his white family. He also attended a racist black church for 20 years. McCain's church is not racist, and he never has tried to only help the "white community". There you go.

Posted by: undertow | September 9, 2008 1:01 AM | Report abuse

joe,

in my humble opinion even politicians reserve the right to have a simple conversation about policies that others under them, and mothers reserve a right to ask simple questions about the things in view of their children last time i checked.

the fact that she was curious about the books her kids were accessing is just all the more proof she cares about her kids beyond that of some mothers in America. and the fact that she inquired about the gun privileges of a man who threatened her life is equally valid.

occums razor: "provided all things are equal, the simplest solution is most accurate."

those are the simplest conclusions, without assumption, therefore by all logical means they should be your first and only conclusion.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:55 AM | Report abuse

It has been years since I've seen you ignorant, racist liberals this desperate. You cast aspersions about like they are guilt-free, yet your favored Messiah is guilty of the same (fictional) sins that you accuse Palin and McCain of performing.

It's too soon to say who will win the election. I sincerely hope that you anti-American loons get kicked to the curb. Your insanity and inanity should be rejected by the vast majority of people with rational thought.

Posted by: skh.pcola | September 9, 2008 12:55 AM | Report abuse

Joe said:"Nonetheless, the intent appears to have been there. That she was unable to ban books successfully is no reason to forgive her for trying. There is no room in American politics for that type of thinking."

How about bomb making books or drug labs or?

Posted by: Troilus1 | September 9, 2008 12:55 AM | Report abuse

These book ban bloggers are hypocrites. Every one of them opposes Christian and Creation literature in our public libraries.

Liberalism can only survive on the Federal dole. You couldn't fill a room with people wanting to hear the scientific (lol) proof for evolution.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:54 AM | Report abuse

Looks like the die-hard racist Republicans snorted a pack of meth and took over the thread for awhile. I'm grateful for all of the racist comments that the Republican writers made. They serve to remind the rest of us who votes for Republican candidates.

Posted by: Eyeball kid | September 9, 2008 12:53 AM | Report abuse

palin never tried to ban books, get your facts straight.

---------

The facts seem to be that (a) she did bring up the question of banning books, which the city librarian flatly refused, (b) Palin subsequently asked for the librarian's resignation, and (c) after some outrage at the prospect of removing the librarian, Palin backed off of the termination.

According to Palin, the request for the librarian's resignation was a loyalty test. I'm not sure what that means. I'm not sure why the governor of a city needs to confirm the loyalty of the public librarian in the first place. Palin claims that she was merely posing a hypothetical question regarding the banning of books, which also strikes me as an extremely odd choice of hypothetical question. All of her explanations regarding the matter sound to me like back-peddling off of what turned out to be a very controversial and publicly unpopular decision to remove the librarian.

The long and short is that it appears as though she was interested in removing books from the library, but was unable to do so and decided not to pursue it. The lists of books that she supposedly asked to have banned that have been floating around are indeed bogus -- there were never any requests to remove specific books, and ultimately, no books were ever banned.

Nonetheless, the intent appears to have been there. That she was unable to ban books successfully is no reason to forgive her for trying. There is no room in American politics for that type of thinking.

Posted by: Joe | September 9, 2008 12:50 AM | Report abuse

Racists posting below

You posts are an embarrassment to America. You are hurting the cause. This Obama can embarrass himself without any help.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:49 AM | Report abuse

also, short fact check for some of the things ive seen spouted here.


obamas passport has him labled as an arab american, he is officially 43% arab decent, 50% Caucasian and less than 3 % negro african (thats the terminology dont start calling me a racist). his first middle and last name are all of arabian deccent as well although barack has been known to be used as a Swahili derivative of the arab barrak (sp?)

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:49 AM | Report abuse

"What part of the Constitution states that foreign nationals captured by soldiers overseas in war time are entitled to habeus corpus? Show me that section in the Constitution. I can't find it."

Exactly! Obama snowed that crowd.

Posted by: Troilus1 | September 9, 2008 12:47 AM | Report abuse

Michelle Obama hates white folks, and has a wiener (although, in her defense, her wiener is small, and resemblems a boy in a small canoe)

When you pat the little boy on the head, he stands up tall. And Michelle smiles. Smiles big for the white folks on the plantation. Big smile. Ahhh. Pat my little boy in the canoe. Auhh. Yes. I likes it so much.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:43 AM

Hey idiot. She doesn't have a wiener. She has a virginia. gosh. you idiots.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:46 AM | Report abuse

i posted that link so people could get thier facts straight then research them, i dont beleive it at face value, but after spending a week researching it, i know that that is the most comprehensive list of palins scandal rumors that have been debunked.

face it, you see a right wing website and run for the hills, not even fact checking it, but then you use wikipedia also run in the same fashion as pajama. how ironic. also if you researched the information.

as for the statement about her firing people like a dictatorship, in every instance there was a valid reason to fire the person. fact is politicians have to face the choice of firing people, and a person being disgruntled is a person you have to fire no matter how much media backlash you face, go look at the people she fired from her own party, people who even furthered her career some who she even jailed, then call her a dictator.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:46 AM | Report abuse

"She seems to fire people that don't agree with her..... kind of like a dictator."

Yeah, or maybe kind of like a boss that is responsible for running an organisation! Liberal losers like you and 'bama wouldn't understand that.

Posted by: BOSSman | September 9, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse

Pleease vote fuh me! I need dem white wimmins. Muh wife looks like a monkey that escaped frum da zoo. HELP!

Posted by: mOnkeybama | September 9, 2008 12:42 AM

YOU LAUGHING NOW, HONKY TONK. BUT WHEN WE BLACKS RULE THE WORLD, NO MO FUN FO YOU WHITE BOYS. YOU'S BE PLOWIN THE FIELDS WHILE WE BE PLOWING YO WIMMINS.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse

"Well Steve,

If you think that any of Obama's 3 names are unique to Blacks, then you are as ignorant as the rest of these right wing fascist nuts..."

I never wrote black, some people see what they want to see. Obama sees racists everywhere he looks too.
He's getting his butt kicked by a Hockey Mom.

Posted by: Steve | September 9, 2008 12:44 AM | Report abuse

Per Maj. Gen. Craig Campbell, adjutant general of the Alaska National Guard; "Palin plays no role in national defense activities, even when they involve the Alaska National Guard. The entire operation is under federal control, and the governor is not briefed on situations."

Posted by: koijaicat | September 9, 2008 12:44 AM | Report abuse

Michelle Obama hates white folks, and has a wiener (although, in her defense, her wiener is small, and resemblems a boy in a small canoe)

When you pat the little boy on the head, he stands up tall. And Michelle smiles. Smiles big for the white folks on the plantation. Big smile. Ahhh. Pat my little boy in the canoe. Auhh. Yes. I likes it so much.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:43 AM | Report abuse

Pleease vote fuh me! I need dem white wimmins. Muh wife looks like a monkey that escaped frum da zoo. HELP!

Posted by: mOnkeybama | September 9, 2008 12:42 AM | Report abuse

What part of the Constitution states that foreign nationals captured by soldiers overseas in war time are entitled to habeus corpus? Show me that section in the Constitution. I can't find it.

Posted by: Fosterdad | September 9, 2008 12:42 AM | Report abuse

Michelle Obama hates white folks, and has a wiener (although, in her defense, her wiener is small, and resemblems a boy in a small canoe)

When you pat the little boy on the head, he stands up tall. And Michelle smiles. Smiles big for the white folks on the plantation. Big smile. Ahhh. Pat my little boy in the canoe. Auhh. Yes. I likes it so much.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:42 AM | Report abuse

Sarah has a wonderful body for her [and number of kids]. I have 3 kids and I know how hard it is to stay fit and attractive. Kudos to Sarah. She has my vote.

Posted by: koijaicat | September 9, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

Michelle Obama hates white folks, and has a wiener (although, in her defense, her wiener is small, and resemblems a boy in a small canoe)

When you pat the little boy on the head, he stands up tall. And Michelle smiles. Smiles big for the white folks on the plantation. Big smile. Ahhh. Pat my little boy in the canoe. Auhh. Yes. I likes it so much.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

---
"palin never tried to ban books, get your facts straight.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/separating-palin-fact-from-palin-fiction/

she simply suggested that certain books where offensive, have you ever been offended by something and stood up for it? i guess not...democrats dont do that kinda thing unless its race or sex related."

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:28 AM
------

Wow. You believe a no-name writer of a blog at PajamasMedia???? An article with no source references!!
Just like a republican... regurgitating crap instead of posting reliable and verifiable facts. She fired the librarian that did not agree with her censorship plans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

She seems to fire people that don't agree with her..... kind of like a dictator.

Posted by: Dave | September 9, 2008 12:40 AM | Report abuse

Michelle Obama hates white folks, and has a wiener (although, in her defense, her wiener is small, and resemblems a boy in a small canoe)

When you pat the little boy on the head, he stands up tall. And Michelle smiles. Smiles big for the white folks on the plantation. Big smile. Ahhh. Pat my little boy in the canoe. Auhh. Yes. I likes it so much.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:40 AM | Report abuse

Michelle Obama hates white folks, and has a wiener (although, in her defense, her wiener is small, and resemblems a boy in a small canoe)

When you pat the little boy on the head, he stands up tall. And Michelle smiles. Smiles big for the white folks on the plantation. Big smile. Ahhh. Pat my little boy in the canoe. Auhh. Yes. I likes it so much.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:39 AM | Report abuse

shawn79,

its 14.5mil not 20mil, and the community instituted those programs in order to start programs that would wind up paying 3 fold in less than a few years, after palin had already invigorated the economy of alaska a robust 500mil.

once again obama makes false claims about palin CUTTING funding, when in reality she was cutting AFTER rejuvinating them.

the disabled childrens fund she supposedly cut, she cut down to only a 1.5x increase instead of a 2.2x increase, and the other lie speculating on her cutting funding was a cut down to 3.5x from 4.5x.

man i wish she wouldd cut our funding in washington like that.

i wish my boss would cut my paycheck in that way too.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:39 AM | Report abuse

Michelle Obama hates white folks, and has a wiener (although, in her defense, her wiener is small, and resemblems a boy in a small canoe)

When you pat the little boy on the head, he stands up tall. And Michelle smiles. Smiles big for the white folks on the plantation. Big smile. Ahhh. Pat my little boy in the canoe. Auhh. Yes. I likes it so much.

Posted by: Shareeka Obama | September 9, 2008 12:38 AM | Report abuse

Let me get this clear. It is ok to kill Mohammed outright, but if you catch him, you need to read him his rights because you might have the wrong man. Does that mean we should just shoot anyone we suspect and then after the fact worry about whether we had the right person or not. Barack, the Attorney is talking non-sense.

Posted by: John M. | September 9, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse

interconti

Well said, but you may have failed to consider a few things.

If the redneck element leaves, who will pay the taxes and feed the liberal college professors.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:31 AM

JimH:
If all the racist rednecks would agree to leave this country, all the good people who are racially tolerant and enlightened would gladly pay more taxes to make up for the difference. I certainly would.

Posted by: interconti | September 9, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse

LORD FORGIVE ME: It is obvious that Gov. Palin is needed more at home than she is in the White House! Her home is in shambles .... she's under investigation..... she has sort legal counsel..... and her 17 year old daughter Bristol Palin with her legs tossed back has put a new spin on McCains slogan "Drill Drill Drill" .....and only God knows what's around the corner........Notwithstanding all of the above.....her new boss is suffering from the early stages of dementia. Gov. Palin needs our prayers....not our criticism!!! beautifulgirl2300

Posted by: koijaicat | September 9, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse

When I get da presidensee, I gonna get lotsa white wimmin, then we gonna sell-a-brate wif watamellon and KFC...AND CRACK! Feel meh?

Posted by: Obongo | September 9, 2008 12:32 AM


YOU CRACKS ME UP. YOUSE SOOO FUNNY. i LIKES IT . i IS OBAMA.lETS EET SOME WATERMELLON AND CHEEKEN. WIF MY TEEF, I'L EAT FROM THE COBB. YIPPE.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:36 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who votes Republican this year is more delusional than the candidates they support. In recent weeks, John McCain and the Republican party have blatantly and without any shame adopted the Democratic campaign theme of “change”. It should be evident to an objective observer that Bush 43 and now McCain and Pailin are mere puppets to the true Republican national party leaders who control their strings. Cheney is one of the few of that inner cabal that have been calling the shots since the Nixon administration. They are in fact a continuation of the Nixon and Ford presidencies with only a disruption during the Carter and Clinton years. Bush 41(former head of the CIA,VP, and president is probably the real leader of this political Cosa Nostra if not a equal partner of this power sharing musical chairs game. His right and left hands have been Dick Cheney(former Sec.of Defense of Bush 41, former White House Chief of staff for Ford) and the other is Donald Rumsfeld(former Sec. of Defense for Ford and Bush 43,former special envoy to the Middle East during Reagan). Another member of this group, more likely a captain if not a full blown boss himself is James Baker (former C.O.S of Reagan, former Under Sec. of Commerce for Ford, former C.O.S and Sec of State for Bush 41, former Sec. of Treasury for Reagan, former chief legal advisor to Bush 43). Another captain or free lance enforcer is Karl Rove a college drop out and campaign manager for both Bush 41 and 43, also for Phil Gram who is McCain’s economic advisor.
Lets look at McCain’s staff of change.
On July 2, 2008, Steve Schmidt was given "full operational control" of McCain's campaign. Steve Schmidt prior to this was a top aide to Dick Cheney and a protégé to Karl Rove. Another advisor is Charles R. Black worked for Ronald Reagan's two Presidential campaigns in 1976 and 1980 and he was a senior political adviser to the 1992 re-election campaign of George H.W. Bush. Another advisor is Randy Scheunemann. He was project director for the Project for the New American Century. A neo-conservative think tank founded by non other than Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Bill Kristol and others in 1996. Other signatories to this group reads like a who’s who of the last 8 years of the republican administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century.
These people have never cared about small town america or “values” All they care about is war profiteering. Many of the signatories have never served in the military. Cheney and Rove both dodged the draft. Look at the statement of principles by the PNAC. Rumsfeld was a good friend of Saddam Huessin in the 80’s Cheney didn’t want Nelson Mandela free. These are the real puppet masters, they throw out the talking points about the left of being elitist and not caring middle america and these same guys other than Rove have advanced degrees and are worth no less than 10 million dollars. People who support them need to extricate their heads out of Limbaugh and Hannity’s asses and see what is really happening to them. McCain is not his own man he confuses stories of his real life with a book he read “The Gulag Archipelago, in which a fellow prisoner - not a guard - silently drew a cross in the dirt with a stick.” An ironic twist to all this is Eliot A. Cohen, a signatory to the PNAC "Statement of Principles", responded in The Washington Post: "There is no evidence that generals as a class make wiser national security policymakers than civilians. George C. Marshall, our greatest soldier statesman after George Washington, opposed shipping arms to Britain in 1940. His boss, Franklin D. Roosevelt, with nary a day in uniform, thought otherwise. Whose judgment looks better?"[
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2581086/John-McCain-accused-of-plagiarising-Wikipedia-for-speeches.html. Even if you don’t like Obama there is no-way a sane person can want this continued blatant fleecing of our Nation.

Thes are all verifiable facts and can be found just with a google search.

Other than the ultra affluent, how can anyone support the Republican party? When will small town America realize that they are being duped into supporting the ultra-affluent agenda. The talking points of the right are so hypocritical that it becomes laughable. The red meat of the right is the so called Main stream Media as if Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. are not part of it. They demean celebrity status, however they tout one of their greatest presidents(Reagan) was an actor. They say they are the party of patriotism, yet many of the upper echelon of the party have never served, i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Reagan. They say that they care about "Main Street" USA but only bail out the Whales of Wall Street. Yet small town America eat this tripe every year. They don't care about relgion unless it can be used to stir up the base, nor science or technology unless there is a buck to be made. Small town America takes pride on its freedom but yet don't realize that over time we are becoming less free, ie wire tapping and other forms of domestic survelliance. They demean people of intelligence because they know many people of small town America don't have degrees and use it at a fake issue and call people who spent time in academia as elist when many on the right serve on university boards and have part-time professorships. They say they are against affirmitive action but yet celebrate mediocrity, Bush43 and McCain graduating at the bottom of their classes. Who both came from already well established families and had all the opportunities and connections to excel. Why does small town America believes this is the party for them? Christian conservatives seem to the be the first ones who want to go to war and bomb someone before any diplomacy is tried. Why can't small town America and Christian conservatives are being used as pawns just as much the Islamic fundamentalist are. Islamic fundamentalist come from small town Middle East and given the same kind of talking points as the evangalicals. They want prayer in school, no choice available to women, and believe to the core that their ideas about worship and country are the best. Wake up small town America you are being played.

Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse

Michelle Obama hates white folks, and has a wiener (although, in her defense, her wiener is small, and resemblems a boy in a small canoe)

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:34 AM | Report abuse

thats your point small town? first off, you missed my point yet again, i simply stated that what brought us out of the GREAT one was war, but any definingly united factor can bring us to pull ourselves up, obamas policys suggest that handing people money will unite them. well history tells us something different.


and trust me, its not mccain that puts our children on the line, its obama, heck, he throws em out before thier even born.

obama 2008: hope and change---translation------(man i HOPE i dont have to CHANGE).

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:33 AM | Report abuse

Michelle Obama hates white folks, and has a wiener (although, in her defense, her wiener is small, and resemblems a boy in a small canoe)

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:33 AM | Report abuse

When I get da presidensee, I gonna get lotsa white wimmin, then we gonna sell-a-brate wif watamellon and KFC...AND CRACK! Feel meh?

Posted by: Obongo | September 9, 2008 12:32 AM | Report abuse

Hey, ya'll. I waskidding about not liking my reverend Wright. I love thedude. He and I agree oneverything.

Of course, none of you is, you know, surprised, right? HAHA.

I pulled one over on you dumb white boys. HAHA.

Posted by: Barack Obama | September 9, 2008 12:17 AM
=========================================
Again, You're Ignorant and Stupid!! Your type votes for McCain. When you see the diversity of faces at the RNC it is not hard to believe that McCain will get smoked with the Likes of you.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:32 AM | Report abuse

it appears that obama should have this discussion with clinton when he mets with him later this week.

clinton is the one who refused to take osama when given the chance.
obama is a lawyer, biden is a lawyer, clinton is a lawyer , michelle is a lawyer, kerry is a lawyer, hillary is a lawyer.

that is a problem.

Posted by: deroy | September 9, 2008 12:32 AM | Report abuse

Palin:

9000 people = $ 20 Mil in debt that wasn’t there before
300 million people = $ 666 bil. in new debt

Posted by: shawny79 | September 9, 2008 12:32 AM | Report abuse

Hey, ya'll. I waskidding about not liking my reverend Wright. I love thedude. He and I agree oneverything.

Of course, none of you is, you know, surprised, right? HAHA.

I pulled one over on you dumb white boys. HAHA.

Posted by: Barack Obama | September 9, 2008 12:17 AM
=========================================
Again, You're Ignorant and Stupid!! Your type votes for McCain. When you see the diversity of faces at the RNC it is not hard to believe that McCain will get smoked with the Likes of you.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:31 AM | Report abuse

interconti

Well said, but you may have failed to consider a few things.

If the redneck element leaves, who will pay the taxes and feed the liberal college professors.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:31 AM | Report abuse

To Dale:
So what you are saying that the answer to any economic crisis is war then? You did forget to mention that prior to these economic events, America entered a war that was unpopular with the general populace of the U.S., WWI and the Vietnam war. You forget to mention that after these wars the government didn't do anything for the massive #of troops who left the service which help contribute the huge increase in unemployment. This was only done in great effort under Truman a democrat with the implementation of the G.I.Bill. The only real update to the G.I. Bill was attempted just recently in which McCain voted against. Just some other things to think about.

Posted by: small town america | September 9, 2008 12:31 AM | Report abuse

BREAKING NEWS:

Obama had an affair with his wife's gay lover!!!!
His wife hates white folks, and has a wiener (although, in her defense, her wiener is small, and resemblems a boy in a small canoe)

Posted by: MSNBC | September 9, 2008 12:30 AM | Report abuse

So Troilus1, should we do what Iran wants and elect McSame??????????
While we're at it, let's give every terrorist nation what they want.
Your stupidity scares me!!

Posted by: Dave | September 9, 2008 12:29 AM | Report abuse

Rokk (AKA Barack AKA Barry)

No way! and no way I would vote for anyone like you. You seem pretty messed up. Maybe watch Oprah and get some ideas. I don't even know where to start; just stay away from my house and family.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:29 AM | Report abuse

Will the redneck racists on this blog please leave? You guys are disgusting. Go crawl back into the holes where you came from.

Posted by: interconti | September 9, 2008 12:28 AM | Report abuse

Whenever Obama says he has, is, or is about to make something "clear," the next line is always a crock of caca.

Since Obama is so tough on terrorists, maybe he'll read Billy the Bombthrower Ayers his rights over coffee sometime.

Posted by: N. Credulous | September 9, 2008 12:28 AM | Report abuse

Having read this blog, I've concluded:

DEMOCRATS ARE FREAKING RETARDED!!!!

You are the same folks that believe WWF is real. Bananas. KOO KOO. Nuts.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:28 AM | Report abuse

palin never tried to ban books, get your facts straight.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/separating-palin-fact-from-palin-fiction/

she simply suggested that certain books where offensive, have you ever been offended by something and stood up for it? i guess not...democrats dont do that kinda thing unless its race or sex related.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:28 AM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin is a leader, a maverick, a women with values. She had former Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan fired for not participating in her vendetta against her former brother-in-law; threatened librarian Mary Ellen Emmons with unemployment for not cooperating with her on the banning of books; married a man who doesn't even want to be an American or want Alaska to be part of the United States, had an affair with her husband's former business partner, Brad Hanson; believed God talked to her and told her that the war in Iraq was his Will. SARAH PALIN'S VALUES AT WORK.


Posted by: koijaicat | September 9, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse

What an AWESOME quote!

She mocks the very nature of America with her book bans and her secessionist groups.

The last thing we need is another 4 years of the same BUSH anti-American destruction of Civil Liberties.

Posted by: Mac | September 9, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse

-----------
"Anyone who votes for Obama is outright nuts. Probably should be institutionalized. Obama is not qualified to work at McDonalds. If you can't vote for McCain then you don't love America and, more importantly, you have nothing but contempt for the future of our children. Really, you left wing crazies are evil."

Posted by: Erick | September 9, 2008 12:13 AM
------------

I think you are confusing evil with intelligence.
You are the one putting our childrens futures on the line. McSame can barely turn his head, walk, or raise his arms... can we really gamble on him making it 4 years? I for one won't gamble on my childrens future, as you apear to be willing to do. Let's face it, putting politics aside and using inntelligence, Palin is barely fit to be press secretary. And that alone says a lot about McSame's mental state.

Posted by: Dave | September 9, 2008 12:26 AM | Report abuse

Iranians Hoping for ‘Muslim’ Obama Victory

Iran’s leadership has expressed “great pleasure” at the prospect of a Barack Obama victory in November, according to Menashe Amir, the Iranian-born head of Radio Israel’s Persian language service.

But Iranian President Ahmadinejad has said he doubts that the American establishment “will allow” Obama to win.

“One of the Iranian religious leaders said if Obama will enter the White House, then Islam will conquer the heart of the American nation,” Amir told Isracast.com.

The Iranian leadership likes Obama “mainly because he is a Muslim,” according to Amir. His first name, Barack, comes from “al-baraq,” which is the name of the horse that Muslims believe Muhammad rode on his way to paradise.

His middle name Hussein is also a Muslim name, and he was “born in a Muslim family,” said Amir.

In fact, Obama is a Christian. His deceased father was a Muslim, and though Obama attended a Muslim school in Indonesia, he never pursued the Muslim faith of his early childhood. While some commentators have suggested that this qualifies him as an apostate 14; a “crime” punishable by death according to Islamic sharia law 14; Menashe Amir disagreed.

“If he wins the election, Muslims will be very proud of such a conquest, such a win. He didn’t convert [to Christianity] after he was 18. It happened much, much before,” so the sharia law judgment does not apply.

Posted by: Troilus1 | September 9, 2008 12:26 AM | Report abuse

So what you are saying that the answer to any economic crisis is war then? You did forget to mention that prior to these economic events, America entered a war that was unpopular with the general populace of the U.S., WWI and the Vietnam war. You forget to mention that after these wars the government didn't do anything for the massive #of troops who left the service which help contribute the huge increase in unemployment. This was only done in great effort under Truman a democrat with the implementation of the G.I.Bill. The only real update to the G.I. Bill was attempted just recently in which McCain voted against. Just some other things to think about.

Posted by: Smalltown America | September 9, 2008 12:26 AM | Report abuse

Well Steve,

If you think that any of Obama's 3 names are unique to Blacks, then you are as ignorant as the rest of these right wing fascist nuts...

Go Democrats... Bring some honesty, common sense and decency back to our country's leadership! Throw the hate-filled war mongers out!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

My wife is just as arrogant as Sarah Palin. I escape her by watching television all day. If Palin wins I will have no refuge. Please help me. Please!

Posted by: koijaicat | September 9, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

Way to go Barack! Sarah cannot just blow into town and piss on the constitution! Who does this unknown with the square glasses think she is!

Posted by: Julie | September 9, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

obama read and understood the constitution? when? if anything this article points to proof that he hasnt, proof that his political views cloud his judgment as to what is and isnt constitutional mocking.

"dont mock the constitution" falls into place with "dont mess with texas".

in the list of great illogical arguements of our time.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

Vote for Obama. Tis'time for the white folks to step back, and let us black folks lead for a while. It's our turn!

We want to take back everything that is rightfully ours. This country, rightfully ours. Education, rightfully ours. Yo' girls, rightfully ours!

Obama will bring back the country to us Black folk, where it rightfully belongs.

Gimme some chicken and watermellon, bro., while I celebrate the rise of the messiah BARACK OBAMA! YEAH!!!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:24 AM | Report abuse

I'm a former dope-head crack smoker, secret muslim, terrorist friend, Chicago machine "gear", riot inciter (AKA coonmunity organizer), liar, phoney, white hating, secretly gay, black supremecist, communist.

Can I have your vote?

Posted by: Rokk (AKA Barack AKA Barry) | September 9, 2008 12:24 AM | Report abuse

It will take an Obama presidency to make America long for the days of sick Willie. I never thought I would wish for Hillary. Even she would not pander to Islamic terrorists. If Louie Farrakhan came to my church; I would leave immediately and I would not listen to 1 complete paragraph from that Jeremiah Wright lunatic.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:14 AM
=========================================
Shouldn't Palin have left her church once that minister from Jews for Jesus started making anti-semetic comments agianst the state of Israel!!! You Got some nerve!! Oh, Farrakhan never attend the man's church!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:23 AM | Report abuse

"Hitler waited 90 days after taking office before banning...books. Mayor Sarah Palin waited 11" days after taking office before attempting to ban books.

Posted by: koijaicat | September 9, 2008 12:22 AM | Report abuse

rofl, im a pacifist, tho im glad that you keep being so far off, try to guess my age and my profession next :).

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:22 AM | Report abuse

How much was a gallon of gas when Bush came to office? Around or under a dollar
How much is it now when he is about to leave? $3-$5

All that money, I wonder where it went? To the middle class?

To Halliburton, oil companies, wall street and Saudis and of course their cronies in the republican party.

Oh forgot, and made Russia rich too in the process, enough for it to get belligerent!

Posted by: shawny79 | September 9, 2008 12:21 AM | Report abuse

Black Power!!!

Muslim Power!!!

Obama '08

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:21 AM | Report abuse

Beware the person who jests about civil and constitutional rights, especially if it is an unqualified, under-educated person who has attained her position through political expediency and not on merit. The cute spitfire today may be your PRESIDENT next year, so it's no joke. Whether you liek Obama or not, at least he's read and understands the Constitution, which is more than you can rest assured of when it somes to Ms. Palin. She takes her marching orders from God apparently, and they include banning abortion, burning books, restricting sex eduction (oh, ooops!), and banning gay marriage. Be careful what you wish for...

Posted by: lhen | September 9, 2008 12:21 AM | Report abuse

Dale
I think you desparately need psychiatric help. I hope you get some before you assault someone physically. Or are you already on probation

Posted by: al fomega | September 9, 2008 12:20 AM | Report abuse

Would youse white folks quit giving my muslim faithtrouble.

I is, uh, you know, a muslim. So BACK OFF, MO FO!

fOR i GIT some dudes to beat you up, bro. Inthehood, Bro.,

Posted by: Barack Obama | September 9, 2008 12:20 AM | Report abuse

Dave in the state will put Obama over the top on election day

The only over the top is the way McCain/Palin leaped over the Obamanation to take the lead. Keep him and his minions away from the edge. Too many of them are jumping.

He has been endorsed by a great many terrorists groups and countries which hate America. Don't think that means they won't walk all over him if elected. They (his friends in the middle East) hate us and want to kill us.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:19 AM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, the hockey mom would make a better president than a Harvard educated senator.

Republicans are such fools....

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:18 AM | Report abuse

Hey, ya'll. I waskidding about not liking my reverend Wright. I love thedude. He and I agree oneverything.

Of course, none of you is, you know, surprised, right? HAHA.

I pulled one over on you dumb white boys. HAHA.

Posted by: Barack Obama | September 9, 2008 12:17 AM | Report abuse

honestly? what brought us out of the great depression was war, unity under war and the creation of jobs due to war. many of fdr's programs unfortunately did NOT help the depression but prolonged it.

as for stagflation theres really no way to go about fixing it unless you can recreate whatever caused it, as stagflation is so often caused by a loss of natural resources, the resource must be re-created. for the most part one can only take credit for stagflation ending when the resource becomes plentiful again.

as for economy in general you have to understand that the basic principle for economy takes 10 years to fulfill itself, remember it was clinton who succesfully worked to initiate teh housing flux that eventually led to the downfall we are experiencing now, and the president in the whitehouse when things really start to turn around will unlikely be the one who actaully changed it.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:17 AM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin has executive experience: "She made the decision to abandon plans to build the nearly $400 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport...after the project had become an embarrassment to the state, after federal dollars for the project were pulled back and diverted to other uses in Alaska, and after she had appeared to support the bridge during her campaign for governor."

Posted by: koijaicat | September 9, 2008 12:16 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who votes Republican this year is more delusional than the candidates they support. In recent weeks, John McCain and the Republican party have blatantly and without any shame adopted the Democratic campaign theme of “change”. It should be evident to an objective observer that Bush 43 and now McCain and Pailin are mere puppets to the true Republican national party leaders who control their strings. Cheney is one of the few of that inner cabal that have been calling the shots since the Nixon administration. They are in fact a continuation of the Nixon and Ford presidencies with only a disruption during the Carter and Clinton years. Bush 41(former head of the CIA,VP, and president is probably the real leader of this political Cosa Nostra if not a equal partner of this power sharing musical chairs game. His right and left hands have been Dick Cheney(former Sec.of Defense of Bush 41, former White House Chief of staff for Ford) and the other is Donald Rumsfeld(former Sec. of Defense for Ford and Bush 43,former special envoy to the Middle East during Reagan). Another member of this group, more likely a captain if not a full blown boss himself is James Baker (former C.O.S of Reagan, former Under Sec. of Commerce for Ford, former C.O.S and Sec of State for Bush 41, former Sec. of Treasury for Reagan, former chief legal advisor to Bush 43). Another captain or free lance enforcer is Karl Rove a college drop out and campaign manager for both Bush 41 and 43, also for Phil Gram who is McCain’s economic advisor.
Lets look at McCain’s staff of change.
On July 2, 2008, Steve Schmidt was given "full operational control" of McCain's campaign. Steve Schmidt prior to this was a top aide to Dick Cheney and a protégé to Karl Rove. Another advisor is Charles R. Black worked for Ronald Reagan's two Presidential campaigns in 1976 and 1980 and he was a senior political adviser to the 1992 re-election campaign of George H.W. Bush. Another advisor is Randy Scheunemann. He was project director for the Project for the New American Century. A neo-conservative think tank founded by non other than Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Bill Kristol and others in 1996. Other signatories to this group reads like a who’s who of the last 8 years of the republican administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century.
These people have never cared about small town america or “values” All they care about is war profiteering. Many of the signatories have never served in the military. Cheney and Rove both dodged the draft. Look at the statement of principles by the PNAC. Rumsfeld was a good friend of Saddam Huessin in the 80’s Cheney didn’t want Nelson Mandela free. These are the real puppet masters, they throw out the talking points about the left of being elitist and not caring middle america and these same guys other than Rove have advanced degrees and are worth no less than 10 million dollars. People who support them need to extricate their heads out of Limbaugh and Hannity’s asses and see what is really happening to them. McCain is not his own man he confuses stories of his real life with a book he read “The Gulag Archipelago, in which a fellow prisoner - not a guard - silently drew a cross in the dirt with a stick.” An ironic twist to all this is Eliot A. Cohen, a signatory to the PNAC "Statement of Principles", responded in The Washington Post: "There is no evidence that generals as a class make wiser national security policymakers than civilians. George C. Marshall, our greatest soldier statesman after George Washington, opposed shipping arms to Britain in 1940. His boss, Franklin D. Roosevelt, with nary a day in uniform, thought otherwise. Whose judgment looks better?"[
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2581086/John-McCain-accused-of-plagiarising-Wikipedia-for-speeches.html. Even if you don’t like Obama there is no-way a sane person can want this continued blatant fleecing of our Nation.

Thes are all verifiable facts and can be found just with a google search.

Other than the ultra affluent, how can anyone support the Republican party? When will small town America realize that they are being duped into supporting the ultra-affluent agenda. The talking points of the right are so hypocritical that it becomes laughable. The red meat of the right is the so called Main stream Media as if Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. are not part of it. They demean celebrity status, however they tout one of their greatest presidents(Reagan) was an actor. They say they are the party of patriotism, yet many of the upper echelon of the party have never served, i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Reagan. They say that they care about "Main Street" USA but only bail out the Whales of Wall Street. Yet small town America eat this tripe every year. They don't care about relgion unless it can be used to stir up the base, nor science or technology unless there is a buck to be made. Small town America takes pride on its freedom but yet don't realize that over time we are becoming less free, ie wire tapping and other forms of domestic survelliance. They demean people of intelligence because they know many people of small town America don't have degrees and use it at a fake issue and call people who spent time in academia as elist when many on the right serve on university boards and have part-time professorships. They say they are against affirmitive action but yet celebrate mediocrity, Bush43 and McCain graduating at the bottom of their classes. Who both came from already well established families and had all the opportunities and connections to excel. Why does small town America believes this is the party for them? Christian conservatives seem to the be the first ones who want to go to war and bomb someone before any diplomacy is tried. Why can't small town America and Christian conservatives are being used as pawns just as much the Islamic fundamentalist are. Islamic fundamentalist come from small town Middle East and given the same kind of talking points as the evangalicals. They want prayer in school, no choice available to women, and believe to the core that their ideas about worship and country are the best. Wake up small town America you are being played.


Posted by: IronComments | September 9, 2008 12:16 AM | Report abuse

For the first time in my life, I is proud to be ana merican. I is proud proudproud.

Black power!!!!

Sincerely,

Michelle Shansaskatchawanna Obama

Posted by: Michelle Obama | September 9, 2008 12:09 AM
-----------------------------------------
Your post is ignorant just like you! But if you are the intelligence that will be voting for McCain, I feel sorry for him! He will definately lose Big with your type behind him.

Posted by: Calvin | September 9, 2008 12:15 AM | Report abuse

And here's a little something McCain will regurgitate of Bush's

"I, John McCain, do solomnly swear to fulfill my office of President of these United States. Barack is a clown boy."

Amen.

Posted by: dorko Dave | September 9, 2008 12:15 AM | Report abuse

Palin: Ready to act as commander in Chief?
She never gave a single order as leader of Alaska's 4,000 member national guard.

Ready to lead?
She isn't even ready to lead a press conference, continuing to duck the media. What a rookie!

Against earmarks?
She led her city, and then her state to become record setting recipients of earmark funding. She is a hypocrite and a liar!

A victim of the media?
As a candidate running an a platform with conservative family values at its core, it is amazing that she and Mcain are the one's who demonstrate pathetic sexual morals and marital infidelity and poor parenting, while Biden and Obama are fantastic role models as stellar husbands and fathers. Let those who are without sin cast the first stone...Palin and Mccain certainly are shameless hypocrites to be casting any stones!

It's the media's job to scrutinize this rookie, especially since McBush failed to do so! Attacking the media is nothing more than a smoke screen to hide her inexperience!


Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:14 AM | Report abuse

It will take an Obama presidency to make America long for the days of sick Willie. I never thought I would wish for Hillary. Even she would not pander to Islamic terrorists. If Louie Farrakhan came to my church; I would leave immediately and I would not listen to 1 complete paragraph from that Jeremiah Wright lunatic.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:14 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who votes for Obama is outright nuts. Probably should be institutionalized. Obama is not qualified to work at McDonalds. If you can't vote for McCain then you don't love America and, more importantly, you have nothing but contempt for the future of our children. Really, you left wing crazies are evil.

Posted by: Erick | September 9, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse

Democrats, don't be so quick to judge. Sarah Palin is not completely close minded. Although she does not believe in the theory of evolution, she does indeed practice one theory that gives Republicans hope: The Big Bang.

Posted by: koijaicat | September 9, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse

"Well Steve,

The only problem with your theory that Obama only entered Harvard because he is black, is that he applied as a white applicant. The admissions committee had no idea he was half black at any time during his application process."

Barack Hussein Obama II sure sounds like a white boy's name to me, I stand corrected.

Posted by: Steve | September 9, 2008 12:12 AM | Report abuse

I'm a college graduate. I have a BA from Columbia in Political Science, International Relations specialization. I'm a Harvard Law School graduate. I'm a civil rights attorney. I've taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for 12 years. I'm an Illinois State legislator for 8 years. I'm a U.S. legislator for 3 years. I've worked on the following committees: Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works, Veterans' Affairs, Health Education, Labor and Pensions, and Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, I've made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia, and Africa. I "traveled to Russia with Republican Dick Lugar to begin...non-proliferation efforts designed to find and secure deadly weapons around the world"

AND, FOR A BLACK DUDE, I HAVE AN AMAZINGLY SHORT WIENER.

I is Barack Obama

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:11 AM | Report abuse

JimH, there is no reason to take Sarah Palin seriously. All she has said since the convention, is little pieces of her convention speech. Like all republicans, all she can do is regurgitate sound bites. Bush does it, Romney does it, they all do it. In fact, McSame has been regurgitating Bush's sound bites. http://www.hulu.com/watch/33670/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-john-mccains-big-acceptance-speech#s-p1-st-i1

Posted by: Dave in the state will put Obama over the top on election day. | September 9, 2008 12:10 AM | Report abuse

Jarda

Really now, tell the truth. Are you writing from America and did you enter legally? Your post is pure nonsense and hardly readable.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:10 AM | Report abuse

that is right,
Obama lied about Hillary & Bill
Obama lied about NAFTA
Obama lied about his 20 years in racist church
Obama lied about Rezko
Obama lied about Kilpatrick
Obama lied about Iraq
Obama lied about Iran
Obama lied about his faith
list goes on...

Posted by: rick
====================================
How Stupid, Look this is a slanderous created list. 1. He is a Christain NOT A MUSLIM- get over it!
2. George Bush and John McCain agree that direct talks need to take place with Iran. Why, because we allowed them to strengthen fighting a, How did Palin put God's War Task in Iraq.
3. When Obama went to Iraq, Maliki agreed with him that a timetable for the pullout of american troops needs to happen. Now George Bush is listening to Maliki and doing it!!!.
4. Your right, the LIES about the stupid notion that Obama has some crimminal attachment to disgraced mayor Kwame Kilpatrick!! Good Grief How STUPID!!
5. Rezko is his own worse enemy!! Obama has no attachment to his alleged crimminal actions.
6. Yeah right, McCain attends the RACIST College Bob Jones University along with GB in the 2000 election, John Hagge with his racist views against Muslims and Catholics, Palin who attands an anti-Semetic sermon at her church----GET REALLLL!!!!
7. Obama is smart enough to know that our jobs have not gone to Mexico and south america ,which NAFTA covered but to China....OUR BANKER who has us by the throat because of Bush's Failed Economic Policies! |
8. What do you care about Hillary and Bill. It's obvious you are a NeoCon and the trur liars around here are Palin and McCain. Look at how they spin Palin's false record. It's unraveling everyday, which is why they won't allow her to be interviewed.

Posted by: Calvin | September 9, 2008 12:10 AM | Report abuse

amen jim h, tho i gotta say i respect clinton for the foreign policy established, i guess the best of democrats can sometimes be better than the worst of republicans.

(case in point bush vs clinton)

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

For the first time in my life, I is proud to be ana merican. I is proud proudproud.

Black power!!!!

Sincerely,

Michelle Shansaskatchawanna Obama

Posted by: Michelle Obama | September 9, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

To Dale, what did get us into the Great Depression or that matter the Stagflation of the 70's?

Posted by: Small town America | September 9, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

Anytime a politian refuses to meet with reporters has something to hide. Theres no way that Palin with her extreme beliefs and weird family relations is holding out to have a press conference unless its for good reason. What happened to transparency and willing to answer the publica questions. Thats why Mccain is going to lose this election. The way their running there campaign is prove that Palin is not ready to lead nor does she know anything. She
s on the stump talking about things she doesn't know about so thats a fraud.

Posted by: Blake. | September 9, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

I'm a college graduate. I have a BA from Columbia in Political Science, International Relations specialization. I'm a Harvard Law School graduate. I'm a civil rights attorney. I've taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for 12 years. I'm an Illinois State legislator for 8 years. I'm a U.S. legislator for 3 years. I've worked on the following committees: Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works, Veterans' Affairs, Health Education, Labor and Pensions, and Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, I've made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia, and Africa. I "traveled to Russia with Republican Dick Lugar to begin...non-proliferation efforts designed to find and secure deadly weapons around the world."

Posted by: koijaicat | September 9, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

$ 10 bn / mo = $120 bn / yr to Iraq

What sort of ripple effect that would have had in the US economy, if it had been invested in infrastructure here?

What sort of advantage that would have generated if it had been invested in advancing America’s scientific capabilities?

Posted by: shawny79 | September 9, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

I'm a college graduate. I have a BS from University of Idaho in journalism. I'm mayor of Wasilla, population about 5,000. I'm governor of Alaska with less than two years of experience. I have never ordered the Alaska National Guard to do anything, but I did visit the base once or twice. I've travelled outside the U.S. to...I'm trying to remember.

Posted by: koijaicat | September 9, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

lol why on earth would i listen to rush? sorry, im conservative, thats american-english for i think for myself.

i voted for kerry in 04, and i wouldnt vote for obama if my life depended on it. however this year is lucky, we dont have to decide between the lesser of two evils, we have idiot vs passionate. its really quite simple.

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Don't you white boys git it. Its time for tho brothas to rule.
Down with the white boys.
We is the brothas.
Obama for rpreisident.
oh yeah, 'cept of course that labiden dude, hes a white dude byut hes a good dude cauz he wants the brothas to win.
Obama '08

Posted by: Anonymous | September 9, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Thankyou, Obama! I am glad that a democrat running for office--nevermind running for POTUS-- has finally had the courage to come out and defend the Constitution, even in the context of terror suspects. Someone who understands that defending the constitution and not having it eroded is an act of patriotism, and that defending the American way is about defending principles and ideas. Thankyou. For the first time in my life, I will be contributing to a political campaign.

Posted by: Phreejazz | September 9, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Do you know what is taught for math in college level here, it is taught in the school level in India?
Forget funding for schools, forget pay raises for teachers.
What we need is more and more money on wars in Iraq.

How about Iran?
How about Russia?

Posted by: shawny79 | September 9, 2008 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Obama has new radical and criminal friends. For more information
www.barackbook.com

Posted by: tommy | September 9, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

My nominations for worst prez ever:

1st Place Jimmy Carter - interest rates, unemployment and gave away the Panama Canal, oh yeah thought the Ayatolalah was the next Ghandi. And still can't shut his mouth.

2nd place Slick Willy Clinton - Gave us phantom air raids, Disastrous failure to support troops he sent into battle, let Osama go free, drug morals to an all-time low.

3rd place Lyndon Johnson - gave us the Great Society. American poor now worse off than ever. Screwed up Vietnam in so many ways.

Barack Obama makes these 3 clowns look like American patriots. His ideas are so far to the Left that he is the unchallenged champion of every failed liberal cause.

Why won't just 1 Democrat recognize that small business is the backbone of America?

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 9, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

Palin is no Hillary Clinton atleast Hillary wasn't affraid to hold a press conference. Palin is not ready to be VP nor hold a press conference but she doesn't have to worry she'll never be VP anyway. Everybody is starting to see her and Mccain for what they are. All talk and no solutions. Especially Palin because on the stump is the only time you see her doing allot of talking instead of answering hard questions. Mavericks, yeah right more like cowards.

Posted by: Jeniffer | September 9, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

Well Steve,

The only problem with your theory that Obama only entered Harvard because he is black, is that he applied as a white applicant. The admissions committee had no idea he was half black at any time during his application process.

Goes to show...neocon republicans act on ignorance, and are the single biggest threat to the survival of the principles our founding fathers used to establish this great nation. These neocon republicans put party before country, and belong in 1930's Germany, not modern America.

Let's not let the facts get in the way of a good lie, eh Steve!

Posted by: OCsin | September 9, 2008 12:04 AM | Report abuse

I don't think we read our enemies their rights in the Revolutionary War, nor the War of 1812, nor the Spanish American War, nor.........

Posted by: Robocop | September 9, 2008 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Palin needs to go on "Meet the Press" on NBC and "This Week" on ABC and submit to questioning for the entire hour. Then we'll see if she is an empty suit or not. Everything I am hearing out of Alaska is that she is totally unfamiliar with matters of national security and national economic policy. It is reckless of McCain to make her his VP candidate. Given his age and health record, he could die any day in office if he is elected and then this woman will be in control of the nuclear codes and she will be the steward of our economy in times of the worst financial and economic crisis this country has seen since the 1930s. This is insane!

Posted by: interconti | September 9, 2008 12:04 AM | Report abuse

dale you nee listen to rush for the full 3 hours so u can get your facts and not just some of it

Posted by: thomas | September 9, 2008 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Obama Has Even Swiped One Of Edwards' Key Jokes From The Stump.

"Even a new Obama laugh line -- joking about pharmaceutical ads that 'have all these people running around in the fields and stuff' - evokes an anecdotal staple of Edwards's 2004 'Two Americas' stump speech used to ridicule the marketing budgets of pharmaceutical companies. 'I love the ads,' Edwards said then. 'Buy their medicine, take it and the next day you and your spouse will be skipping through the fields.' Obama wins the biggest response when he punches up the Edwards observation with a slyly racy kicker."

"Obama Borrows From infedel Edwards

Posted by: martha | September 9, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

If he has been agent of change for all of his long career as a politician and the last time he could throw his weight, it was with the bushes and the dicks, what sort of change is McCain talking about?

He is nothing but what he has become, a greedy old man!

Posted by: shawny79 | September 9, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Looks like the fairy tale is over!

Posted by: Bill Clinton | September 9, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Is fundamental islamic terrorism any different from fundamentalist christian terrorism? If so, why? For who? And how are you qualified to really know? Do you think for yourself or are you a blind believer? Be honest...

Fundamentalists of every point of view are very scary because fundamentally they themselves are very scared... so the narrow rules of their so-called faith seem to protect them.

Why is the world so reduced these days to fear, narrow views, more fear, anger, more fear? You democrats, you republicans, you christians, moslems, all you "others" and "thems"... when will you understand we are human beings?

Why do you need to quarrel so much? You babies who's backyards are tiny in every way... you yahoos who want to bludgeon everyone and everything that doesn't flatter you and console you?

Posted by: sutu | September 9, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Seriously, do you want two mavericks running a country? If it comes to that, it will pretty much end being RUINING, NOT RUNNING!

Posted by: shawny79 | September 9, 2008 12:02 AM | Report abuse

Tax cuts for the rich, none for the poor.
Keep the rich richer and the poor poorer
The poor won’t get educated – best way to keep the republicans in power for ever.

Posted by: shawny79 | September 9, 2008 12:02 AM | Report abuse

Oberman and mathews destroyed NBC ratings and now they are off the air atleast till election is over. All this is for Obama campaign..what did they get.. they may even loose their jobs..

Posted by: linda | September 9, 2008 12:01 AM | Report abuse

Hooray for republicans!
$10 bn / mo on Iraq
How about $ 20 bn / mo on a war with Iran?
How about $ 100 bn / mo on a war with Russia.?
And how a cherry on the cake, a $ 2 bn / mo on a war with Vietnam? (common McCain go get those VietCong!)
Common lets break our own record for the biggest deficit ever!
Hooray for republicans!

Posted by: shawny79 | September 9, 2008 12:01 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, we forgot Mccain is the one on the top of the Republican ticket. Thats soley Mccains problem because he can't energize his base and uses Palin too. Palin talks tough on the campaign stump but is a cowardly refuses to do a press conference. Some running Mates. One that can't speek and one that is afraid too. Palin/Mccain are imposters.

Posted by: Jerry | September 9, 2008 12:01 AM | Report abuse

Seems like Republican pigs have a meeting here...well I know it is difficult to remember that we had a law here because you Republicans came with G.W, Cheney, Rove and company. Just remind you that Constitution is not RECOMMENDATION.
So go to the hell with your senile McCain and idiotic Palin who needs to change 5 times school in 6 years to finish her college education.

Posted by: Jarda | September 9, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

it was the left that claimed that a republican president would overturn roe v wade in a democratic congress. perhaps because of idiocy, and im sorry about the pulling us out of the great depression, i was referring to the policy not the spearheader of the operations. or perhaps your head is so far in the clouds that you forgot the policys that got us into the depression?

Posted by: dale | September 9, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

I told you so!

Posted by: Hillary Clinton | September 9, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

Keep sending $10 Billions / month to Iraq
Keep reducing the funds to schools and universities
Keep making the rich richer and the poor poorer

The rich will keep putting up plants in China, India and Mexico, as they will not have a qualified workforce here in the future.

The rich will keep getting richer, Chinese, Indians and Mexicans will keep getting richer and soon start buying up America like the Japanese and Koreans did.

Posted by: shawny79 | September 9, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

Palin as possible commander in chief? This is the "Campaign To Nowhere' leading us to the "Presidency To Nowhere". This a joke, but nobody is laughing but our enemies.

Posted by: JakeD | September 9, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

Keep sending $10 Billions / month to Iraq
Keep reducing the funds to schools and universities
Keep making the rich richer and the poor poorer

The rich will keep putting up plants in China, India and Mexico, as they will not have a qualified workforce here in the future.

The rich will keep getting richer, Chinese, Indians and Mexicans will keep getting richer and soon start buying up America like the Japanese and Koreans did.

Posted by: shawny79 | September 8, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse

"beating the most loved woman in America"

Wow, "most loved" took just a few days. Even if Palin is great (I don't agree, but you are free to think so!), it seems like you might want to know something about her. She might be president soon. It seems to me her main tool to govern is to fire everyone that disagrees.

Posted by: Bruce in Colorado | September 8, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse

Hi, I am Chris Mathews, and yes, Keith Olbermann has a short wiener. I touched it once. It was short.

Good Bye.

Posted by: Chris Mathews | September 8, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse

Go Republicans!

Regan's deficit - the japanese started buying up
Bush's deficit - the saudis, UAE and Chinese sarted buying up,
McCain's deficit- may be Russia, India and Mexico can buy up US assets and properties

Go Republicans! - sell the US to everybody around the world

Posted by: shawny79 | September 8, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous says: and dont forget the party who led us into this recession

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:51 PM

I say don't forget the last time we had an extended run of unchecked liberalism. Jimmy (worst prez ever) gave us 15% unemployment, a cowering drug abusing military, and last but not least 25% home mortgages.

We need a split government.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 8, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse

Why is that obama stealing phrases from others? Isn;t he the man of speaches? But words are not just his and more interestingly he fails to attribute to the actual owner of those words and phrases.

Pathetic guy Obama. A true con atrist who want to impress america with his atriculation of other's words. pitty you!

At A Recent Campaign Event, Obama Mocked The Change That John McCain Is Promising To Bring To Washington, D.C. "Maybe what they're saying is, 'Watch out George Bush,' Obama said with sarcasm, according to yellow media in tank NBC News.

But The Words Obama Used To Mock McCain Weren't Actually His, Which He Failed To Attribute. "It wasn't Obama's line, though. It came from Washington Post cartoonist Tom Toles, whose cartoon Friday featured these words along with a drawing of McCain and Sarah Palin in front of the White House: 'Watch out, Mr. Bush! With the exception of economic policy and energy policy and social issues and tax policy and foreign policy and Supreme Court appointments and Rove-style politics, we're coming in there to shake things up!'

"A Good Line, But Not Obama's," laughable

Oh not the first time remember "Just words" that obama steal from Deval Patrick without any attribution?

This guy should go get a life for himself without resorting these kind of dirty games. He thinks Americans are fools.

Posted by: rick | September 8, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse

Hello. I am Keith Olbermann, and I have a short wiener.

Good bye.

Posted by: Keith Olbermann | September 8, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse

Come on Dale, repubs don't spend 60% less than democrats. You pulled that number out of your head warmer.

Spending goes up faster under Republican presidents than under Democratic ones. And the economy grows faster under Democrats than Republicans. What grows faster under Republicans is debt.

Under Republican presidents since 1960, the federal deficit has averaged $131 billion a year. Under Democrats, that figure is $30 billion. In an average Republican year, the deficit has grown by $36 billion. In the average Democratic year it has shrunk by $25 billion. The national debt has gone up more than $200 billion a year under Republican presidents and less than $100 billion a year under Democrats.

As for measures of general prosperity, each president inherits the economy. What counts is what happens next. Let's take just two measures, although they all show the same thing: Democrats do better under every variation. From 1960 to 2005 the gross domestic product measured in year-2000 dollars rose an average of $165 billion a year under Republican presidents and $212 billon a year under Democrats. Measured from 1989, or measured with a one-year delay, or both, the results are similar. And how about this one? The average annual rise in real per capita income -- that's the statistic that puts money in your pocket. Democrats score about 30 percent higher.

Democratic presidents have a better record on inflation (averaging 3.13 percent compared with 3.89 percent for Republicans) and on unemployment (5.33 percent versus 6.38 percent). Unemployment went down in the average Democratic year, up in the average Republican one.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20059-2005Apr1.html

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse

The electorate Map favors Obama and at the end of this week watch how Palin/Mccain drop in the poll. Mccain and Palin are both failures. They have no ideas or policies that will change anything. The are stuck to George W. Bush. Keep the Palin/Mccain out of the White House. These People has no change to deliver and Palin wants to take women rights away.

Posted by: Linda Cott | September 8, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse

I am Sorry!!!

Posted by: Keith Olberman | September 8, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse

ive honestly noticed alot of that a lot jim h, not only does a liberal focus seem to be meandering and attacking with little sustenance but they seem to enjoy thier anonymity, fearful that perhaps someone will catch them standing up for something?

Posted by: dale | September 8, 2008 11:57 PM | Report abuse

Everybody is attacking Palin!!!! Ha Ha Ha!!! Did they forgot McCain is the one running for President???

Posted by: Rafael 51 | September 8, 2008 11:56 PM | Report abuse

To Dale, Man you are too funny,
Yea lets see FDR was a democrat, so I guess they led us out of the Great Depression. As too,"would prefer a government that is focused on its fiscal responsibilities and NOT the actions of the people." What is trying to overturn Roe v.Wade or trying to create an amendment on marriage seems like personal choices to me. Largest deficit ever after coming to power with a surplus. Turn off the am talk radio and read something my friend.

Posted by: Small town America | September 8, 2008 11:56 PM | Report abuse

BREAKING NEWS:

Barack Obama back ahead of McCain in the Polls!

(just kidding... hehe)

Posted by: MSNBC | September 8, 2008 11:56 PM | Report abuse

"When we go to the polls we should remember who has been in control in Washington. Bush is trashed, but it is the do-nothing Democrat Congress"

1.) Ridiculous. Republicans were in FULL CONTROL for 6 years.
2.) It is "Democratic" Party, not the "Democrat" Party. Just because Rush is a jerk and says it wrong, doesn't mean you should, too. Do you want to hear about the "Republic" Party?

Posted by: Bruce in Colorado | September 8, 2008 11:56 PM | Report abuse

"We don't always catch the right person," he said. "We may think it's Mohammed the terrorist, but it might be Mohammed the cab driver. You might think it's Barack the bomb-thrower, but it might be Barack the guy running for president."

Barack the bomb-thrower !
You mean Barack the Bill Ayers friend?

Posted by: Jayashiel Kakileti | September 8, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Some VP that can't meet the press. That answers just about everything. All Palin is good for is reading someone elses words and the teleprompter. No Palin/Mccain. They have no solutions just frauds.

Posted by: Jerry M. | September 8, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Jessie

You had better take Sarah Palin seriously, because she awakened the true Americans for the first time in years. Even the liberal polls show the effect. Because of his pride, Obama will continue to show his true stands as he stands alone. No big deal beating the most hated woman in America; beating the most loved woman in America will be a lot tougher for Styroman and the neo-commies.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 8, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Palin is hiding behind McCains apron.

Spreading insults, lies and misinformation while not being accountable.
If Palin was a man, she would be the laughing stock of late night comics.
Wahaaa

Posted by: frostbyte | September 8, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse

ellen yall were in power for 6 years and did nothing

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Who really would want to hang out with the freaky Palin family and knowing there extreme religious right wings believes. The Palins and the Mccains are weird. Too weird for me. Palin is ready to be VP when she can't even meet the Press. Yeah right, Mccain is using her to energize his base. If Palin was a man she wouldn't even be considered. The more people get to know her the more her favorbiltiy goes down.

Posted by: Sue | September 8, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse

"My fellow Americans,

It is with great regret, you know, that I concede this election to Mr. McCain, and congratulate him on his hearty win. It has been a tough, you know, battle throughout these past 18 months, but I grant that I have lost, and with that, I slowly wonder off into obscurity, along with the likes of Gore, Edwards, Kerry, and other wannabees like me..."

Uh, oh.... ooops. You were listening to that. Ahhh, well I'm just practicing my speech for the night of November 4th. Pay no attention to me....

Posted by: Barack Obama | September 8, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Check out obama here as he berates Palin:

http://www.novafantasysports.com

Posted by: Politco | September 8, 2008 11:52 PM | Report abuse

Dale

Notice how many of the responses to your posts are from anonymous. Must have went to Chicago Public Schools and can't write their names yet.

Chicago public schools get 2 to 3 times as much per student as private schools and still fail in every aspect. Its all about promoting liberal ideas and class envy.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 8, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse

and dont forget the party who led us into this recession

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse

what do you suggest anonymous? should i go to cnn msm and nbc for the liberal nutjobs and praise thier talking points? or perhaps this sight the washington post htat still fails to retract its claims against palin that are proven false by the alaskan constituents.

perhaps i should check obamas official fact checking websites too and quote them as facts?

ya, perhaps ill start just claiming that "obama said so" makes it messianic-ally correct.

Posted by: dale | September 8, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse

When we go to the polls we should remember who has been in control in Washington. Bush is trashed, but it is the do-nothing Democrat Congress that is at fault for what is going on in this country. Pelosi and Reid anyone? Approval of Congress is lower that that of the president, but the media ignores that fact. Want real change -- get rid of the Democrat "representatives" who have been the real power. They take a vacation when we have problems, and Pelosi would like to "drill your brains" while they enjoy their dictatorship.

Posted by: Ellen | September 8, 2008 11:50 PM | Report abuse

I ask one big question what does john mccain stand for on the issues..I bet no one can tell me ans if the can i bet it sounds like bushes plans

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:49 PM | Report abuse

Palin is a fraud. Mccain always have her reading from the Bush speech writers to energize the crowd he couldn't energize and she couldn't hold on interview. This is a joke. I don't take Palin seriously because if she was really ready to be VP she would have done an interview already and meet with the press. Palin is not ready to lead.

Posted by: Jessie | September 8, 2008 11:49 PM | Report abuse

that is not what i said large town elitist, i said all small towns in America would prefer a government that is focused on its fiscal responsibilities and NOT the actions of the people.

but thank you for being liberal and twisting my words, its always nice to see democrats cant read AND comprehend logic at the same time.

the simple fact is, republicans in general spend less than 60% than the average democrat, and the best of economists know that baracks plans will bankrupt us within the first year (provided we even have the cash to set up his philandering programs).

mccains economic plan is not brilliant by any means, but its fiscally conservative at heart, and that is what ALL americans need for an economy, do not forget the party that lead america out of teh great depression.

Posted by: dale | September 8, 2008 11:47 PM | Report abuse

Small town america

In truth, small town America will keep producing the food for the ungrateful cities and wants nothing more than to stay clear of the evils in the cities. Chicago has about 11% sales tax and hits me for 15% extra every time I visit and still they are begging for more taxes. Its all about building a political machine and keeping your brother-in-law in a job where he don't even show up. That's liberalism at its best.

The Federal government can't run anything and has no right to be involved in anything but defense, protecting our rights, our borders and delivering the mail. Frankly they should farm those jobs out too, since they can't do anything, but triple the cost of what they put their hands on.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 8, 2008 11:47 PM | Report abuse

Repubs always claim they are for "smaller government" when in fact they always spend more and the government grows with a repub president. And the economy always does better with a democrat for presidents. Look it up!

http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/21/markets/election_demsvreps/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20059-2005Apr1.html
http://www.alternet.org/workplace/60217/

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

dale get the facts.and stay off the right wing talking points

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse


Poor Barack. He just doesn't get it.

There's unconfirmed reports that the fat traitor Adam Gadahn might have been killed by a missile shot from a Predator in Afghanistan or Pakistan. I don't believe a warrant was issued.

This is a laugh line (meaning, I'm laughing out loud that he would be stupid enough to say this):

"First of all, you don't even get to read them their rights until you catch 'em," Obama said here, drawing laughs from 1,500 supporters in a high school gymnasium. "They should spend more time trying to catch Osama bin Laden and we can worry about the next steps later."

See, this is all a sick, legalistic academic game to Obama. America has troops there to kill bin Laden and his Al Qaeda vermin, not to read them rights they don't have.

Posted by: steve_tsouloufis | September 8, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

you religious zealots,

What fascinates me is that your own Bible says that you would be T*O*O S*T*U*P*I*D to see the evil of the final days, Boy, that's an t for the millinium.

I can only rest assured knowing that there is a special place in hell for all of you.

I've lost all faith. Freedom is dead. This country is dead. The experiment is dead.

I'm convinced Sarah Palin IS the Anti-christ. So INHERENTLY EVIL and these trained little monkeys can't even see it.

Sickening.

Posted by: Haniel | September 8, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse

That trashed flag story was proven false. If you believe it you are getting duped.

Posted by: me | September 8, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who votes Republican this year is more delusional than the candidates they support. In recent weeks, John McCain and the Republican party have blatantly and without any shame adopted the Democratic campaign theme of “change”. It should be evident to an objective observer that Bush 43 and now McCain and Pailin are mere puppets to the true Republican national party leaders who control their strings. Cheney is one of the few of that inner cabal that have been calling the shots since the Nixon administration. They are in fact a continuation of the Nixon and Ford presidencies with only a disruption during the Carter and Clinton years. Bush 41(former head of the CIA,VP, and president is probably the real leader of this political Cosa Nostra if not a equal partner of this power sharing musical chairs game. His right and left hands have been Dick Cheney(former Sec.of Defense of Bush 41, former White House Chief of staff for Ford) and the other is Donald Rumsfeld(former Sec. of Defense for Ford and Bush 43,former special envoy to the Middle East during Reagan). Another member of this group, more likely a captain if not a full blown boss himself is James Baker (former C.O.S of Reagan, former Under Sec. of Commerce for Ford, former C.O.S and Sec of State for Bush 41, former Sec. of Treasury for Reagan, former chief legal advisor to Bush 43). Another captain or free lance enforcer is Karl Rove a college drop out and campaign manager for both Bush 41 and 43, also for Phil Gram who is McCain’s economic advisor.
Lets look at McCain’s staff of change.
On July 2, 2008, Steve Schmidt was given "full operational control" of McCain's campaign. Steve Schmidt prior to this was a top aide to Dick Cheney and a protégé to Karl Rove. Another advisor is Charles R. Black worked for Ronald Reagan's two Presidential campaigns in 1976 and 1980 and he was a senior political adviser to the 1992 re-election campaign of George H.W. Bush. Another advisor is Randy Scheunemann. He was project director for the Project for the New American Century. A neo-conservative think tank founded by non other than Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Bill Kristol and others in 1996. Other signatories to this group reads like a who’s who of the last 8 years of the republican administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century.
These people have never cared about small town america or “values” All they care about is war profiteering. Many of the signatories have never served in the military. Cheney and Rove both dodged the draft. Look at the statement of principles by the PNAC. Rumsfeld was a good friend of Saddam Huessin in the 80’s Cheney didn’t want Nelson Mandela free. These are the real puppet masters, they throw out the talking points about the left of being elitist and not caring middle america and these same guys other than Rove have advanced degrees and are worth no less than 10 million dollars. People who support them need to extricate their heads out of Limbaugh and Hannity’s asses and see what is really happening to them. McCain is not his own man he confuses stories of his real life with a book he read “The Gulag Archipelago, in which a fellow prisoner - not a guard - silently drew a cross in the dirt with a stick.” An ironic twist to all this is Eliot A. Cohen, a signatory to the PNAC "Statement of Principles", responded in The Washington Post: "There is no evidence that generals as a class make wiser national security policymakers than civilians. George C. Marshall, our greatest soldier statesman after George Washington, opposed shipping arms to Britain in 1940. His boss, Franklin D. Roosevelt, with nary a day in uniform, thought otherwise. Whose judgment looks better?"[
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2581086/John-McCain-accused-of-plagiarising-Wikipedia-for-speeches.html. Even if you don’t like Obama there is no-way a sane person can want this continued blatant fleecing of our Nation.

Thes are all verifiable facts and can be found just with a google search.

Posted by: Irony | September 8, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Or it might be Barack the guy who hangs out with William Ayers the bomb thrower. See, ya never know

Posted by: Bob | September 8, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

and you want a real LIE

barack hussain obama lied about his connections to the most shady people, and when the right wing media caught his campaign finances being funded by those people, he lied about how much, first claiming 60 then 80 then 120 and finally 250 thousand dollars in campaign finances.

here is a man who has made over 650million for his campaign this year alone, a man who promised to pay those funds back and donate them to charity because they were unclean.

obama payed back less than 80 thousand, and still hasnt payed back the rest of his shady campaign contributions...and thats just the ones we know about.

Posted by: dale | September 8, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Wow, the tone of this article is scary. The statement "defense of the Constitution and the rights of terrorism suspects" spins Obama's speech as all about protecting terrorists and nothing more. You people who think this is a joke won't think so when *you* are denied due process by the US government. Look at history, these things do have a tendency to come around. This isn't rocket science, it's the U.S. constitution. Those who would choose to vote for people who disrespect it should be ashamed of yourselves as americans and republicans.

Posted by: Me | September 8, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse

To Dale:
I guess the truth hurts huh? Iguess according to you people in small town want to isolate themselves from the larger world and not be open to other ideas. I guess you want your conservative government handle all the problems and don't ask questions.

Posted by: Small town america | September 8, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse

Palin is so unqualifyed that Obama is attacking her instead of McCain!!! Ha Ha Ha!!! I cannot stop laughing!!!! Hillary must be loving it because Biden and Hillary both said about Obama what Biden and Hillary said during primaries!!!! Ha Ha Ha!!! Come on left keep attacking we got nothing but cannons and machine guns for you! The left is now on defense Ha Ha Ha!!!!! Keith Olberman go back to football!!! Ha Ha wait!? Is Keityh Olberman now the worlds worst person of the world!!!! ha ha ha

Posted by: Rafael 51 | September 8, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse

Andrew, New Orleans

Lib name callers. No facts, no conscience!

Did you leave yet? Don't stay there in the basement blogging; better get moving. Your response is typically liberal, but America will still pray for your safety and pay for your house if God forbid it gets bad later this week. This is a great nation with unlimited generosity.

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 8, 2008 11:39 PM | Report abuse

The Bush administration and the GOP who tout their patriotism seem to have no problems ignoring the rule of law, the Constitution, international law, and the Geneva convention and just common decency and ethics.

McCain & Palin are cut from the same cloth no matter what they say. McCain has supported Bush 90% of the time, and Palin's positions are so extreme that they scare me to death.

Do we want to be a country that other people around the world admire or do we want to continue with 4 more years of the same disgraceful, ignoble, and immoral actions of the last 8?

America better wake up or McCain-Palin will strip this country of our remaining rights and call us traitors when we complain.

Posted by: abby0802 | September 8, 2008 11:39 PM | Report abuse

dale sare palin must had her daughter in sanfransico then cause off all the talk of her values she must not teach her children

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse

I cannot believe the number of people that say "we" do not know much about Obama, or the people that can say that Palin has experience.

Why don't you spend a little time educating yourselves. Try wikipedia for starters.

Posted by: dwkmi | September 8, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse

maybe i am wrong...but is obama really saying that killing first is the primary move that we should take against suspected terrorist? if so, then he needs to talk to the innocent so call "terrorists" who have perished by strafe bombing.

how about a comprehensive foreign policy!

vote for nader

Posted by: shortstick | September 8, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse

oh sorry i forgot, she can also contract a life threatening std, pass it on to hundreds of unsuspecting victims, and never treat it, also without parental knowledge, as early as 12.

Posted by: dale | September 8, 2008 11:37 PM | Report abuse

Palin is so bad and so far right and so unqualifyed that Obama did not made Hillary his pick and now he wants her help! Hillary show him that you have dignity and tell him to shuv it! Ha Ha Ha OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA!!!!! The rockstar now has turned into a puppy star from now where!!! ITS OVE VIVA LA John MCCAIN!!! Michael Moore are you laughing now ha ha ha!!! he who laughs last laughs better!!!!

Posted by: Rafael 51 | September 8, 2008 11:36 PM | Report abuse


McCain is laughing it up.

Obama is attacking Palin. Palin is destroying Obama. And Biden is Mr Irrelevant.

Posted by: reason | September 8, 2008 11:36 PM | Report abuse

Its a shame the repubs like there vp better then there president nominee

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:36 PM | Report abuse

and the liar that calls himself "small town america" did you not see teh smears obama came out with minutes after palins speech saying she sounded like trash?

thats your hero calling you trash, and republicans are teh ones being duped into agendas?

face it, the republican agenda is lets create a government the small town never has to deal with because its not so big that it affects small town matters. its called conservative, and its what most small town people want, theres a reason small towns are small, people want to be isolated from the democrap. they want to stick to values and not hear some liberal backwash about being out of date.

because when a small town person walks through san fransisco and sees what the liberal agenda has done, allowing 12 year olds to have sex (with a condom of course) get pregnant, have an abortion, and sell the cells for profit to buy crack, all without the informed concent of a parent or guardian...we would rather be out of date.

Posted by: dale | September 8, 2008 11:35 PM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin is not the extremist. Barack Hussein Obama is so far to the Left that even Hillary is out of sight to his right.

This is the true Obama. Without a hint of conscience and compassion, he stood almost alone in the Illinois Senate one of the few stands he took. Read a bout the throwing of born alive babies into trash cans and turning a deaf ear to their cries and suffering. One of the saddest events in the history of Illinois.

It took hundreds of Illinois Christians to stop that abomination. Read about this Oak Lawn pro-life hero.

http://www.jillstanek.com/bio.html

Posted by: JimH in Colorado | September 8, 2008 11:33 PM | Report abuse

People who support the right wing agenda are either, blind to the obvious, in deep denial or suffering from Stockholm syndrome.

Posted by: Irony | September 8, 2008 11:33 PM | Report abuse

Obama its over for you!!! America figure you out! Keith Olberman and Chris Matthew bye bye!!!!! Ha Ha Ha.... John McCain and Palin the next President and Vice of USA... Left people you will dig it!!!!

Posted by: Rafael 51 | September 8, 2008 11:33 PM | Report abuse

only in america can people vote republican after 8 years of disaster and biggest deficit we had

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:32 PM | Report abuse

Jon, joseph, TIM, etc.

Why is Obama attacking both McCain and Palin as liars. Very simple. Both McCain and Palin are liars.

1. BRIDGE TO NO WHERE
They've built up Palin's whole credibility and persona as a candidate for oppposing the Bridge to Nowhere. In fact, she supported it from the beginning. Only when support for it in Washington started to crumble did she say she opposed it and then she took all of our hard-earned money anyway and spent it in Alaska.

2. SOLD IT ON EBAY FOR A PROFIT
This is what McCain keeps saying, including in his stump speech in Cedarburg Wisconsin. But, she didn't. She tried and failed multiple times. And she didn't make a profit. She lost money on it.

3. WE'RE ANTI-EARMARK MAVERICKS!!!(yippee)
In fact, under Palin, Alaska has become the #1 earmark state in the nation. One of the reasons she happened to run into McCain in DC (the only time they ever talked before he decided to make her his VP--several months ago for about 15 minutes--the second time they met in person was when he offered her the job) was that she spent a lot of time in Washington trying to round up money.

Their lies are outrageous.

When people are drinking the Palin Kool-Aid, Obama and Biden should say a few prayers and renounce the evil lies being spoken to drive the evil spirits away and save the people of America.

Some of you say you're amused that Obama is taking on #2 Palin. No he isn't. She's #1 now. McCain has decided he can't campaign alone anymore--cancelling his independent appearances. Imagine getting smaller crowds than your VP!

They're actually taking on the new #1. Smart. What's pathetic is that McCain now looks like #2. And that's what they're both dishing out.

Posted by: MNobserver | September 8, 2008 11:31 PM | Report abuse

people on this blog might actually qualify as retarded.

Posted by: Andrew, New Orleans | September 8, 2008 11:30 PM | Report abuse

and fyi, theres nothing about a republican that is elite, except the liberal spin against them. the only reason republicans give tax breaks to teh wealthy is because a 10% break to a person who makes 10mil a year is 100k as opposed to 10% of others income being 20k or less, is it more intelligent or less to introduce 100k over 20k into the economical system?

only in america can a democrat claim a republican is liberal while spending over 650 million(or twice as much) on ads to "prove" they are a better person....

please stop spewing liberal hate, your stupid is showing.

Posted by: dale | September 8, 2008 11:28 PM | Report abuse

Hey steve u just showd your true colors..Why not take your white hood off and see that we aint in the 50s anymore

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:28 PM | Report abuse

Barack Hussein Obama II is the ultimate affirmative candidate. If he were white, he wouldn't have got into Harvard Law School, nor been elected to office. He plays dirty, as he learned from his Chicago Machine mentors.
In Chicago, a "community organizer," is somebody that copies names off of gravestones onto voter registration forms.
Sarah Palin is not afraid of him, and he's shaking in his boots. Game on.

Posted by: Steve | September 8, 2008 11:25 PM | Report abuse

theres a reason republicans who backed ron paul are going for obama, they beleive in people who talk but dont act, or act but dont know what thier doing.

ron paul is a conspiracy nut more delusional than teh right wing micheal moore, frankly i think people are too stupid to make a decent choice for president.

when you face the reality that the most democratic states are teh ones least often facing hard times, (the northwest where i live) and the rest of the east and west coasts that are centers of commerce for the most part.

people hate the electoral college but never face the reality that over 70+% of americans live in major hubs and simply transport from one to another whether they can realistically afford it or not. thier entire beleif in politics is based less on reality and more on the short narrow factors they face living paycheck to paycheck in a major city.

we need to elect people who can make a choice, not a senator who votes present more than he votes decisively, not a conspiracy nut who would be so busy finding conspiracys that he wouldnt be able to attack any real demons. we need people like mccain and palin who show the only characteristic that shapes a person for hte presidency, that which the republicans are calling "true grit".

mccains history in vietnam and palins historical choices against her party and with her children show that they both face real issues, not which campaign financier they should allow or which wine to go with which meal.

its downright stupid to use any other form of policy to determine who can run a country.

Posted by: dale | September 8, 2008 11:23 PM | Report abuse

When did the republicanc become the blue collar people..they r most elite people there r.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:22 PM | Report abuse

Hossana Hossana Hossana Sarah ...

Posted by: martin | September 8, 2008 11:20 PM | Report abuse

I got answer for u joseph.When u question the mans patriotism he has all the right to fire back.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

To which party would belong your candidate or news anchor in Germany. For example Rush Limbaugh would be called in Germany a nationalist maybe he is even browner then that you know what I mean. Palin is an extreme right wing Christian conservative . McCain is a middle wing more sort of a federal democrate which is a pseudo-republican with libertarian views. Obama is a right wing Social Democrat but with with his views on Iraq/Afganistan and domestic politics he would never fit into the left wing socialists. For this he would have to be opposed to any war, against any kind of army and so on... Marxist (ideology) and communists (factual political movement) that all people give up their possession and are equal, based on a ideology that if there is no possession than there is no fighting over it. The government has to provide equal provide work and social benefits for everyone.

Of course this is nonsense because we are more like Darwin: the stronger with more ambitious will take out the others and gain to leadership and makes more money and so on. Free market capitalism, all work on this Darwin principle: the stronger will survive!

Posted by: mike (germany) | September 8, 2008 11:17 PM | Report abuse

Other than the ultra affluent, how can anyone support the Republican party? When will small town America realize that they are being duped into supporting the ultra-affluent agenda. The talking points of the right are so hypocritical that it becomes laughable. The red meat of the right is the so called Main stream Media as if Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. are not part of it. They demean celebrity status, however they tout one of their greatest presidents(Reagan) was an actor. They say they are the party of patriotism, yet many of the upper echelon of the party have never served, i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Reagan. They say that they care about "Main Street" USA but only bail out the Whales of Wall Street. Yet small town America eat this tripe every year. They don't care about relgion unless it can be used to stir up the base, nor science or technology unless there is a buck to be made. Small town America takes pride on its freedom but yet don't realize that over time we are becoming less free, ie wire tapping and other forms of domestic survelliance. They demean people of intelligence because they know many people of small town America don't have degrees and use it at a fake issue and call people who spent time in academia as elist when many on the right serve on university boards and have part-time professorships. They say they are against affirmitive action but yet celebrate mediocrity, Bush43 and McCain graduating at the bottom of their classes. Who both came from already well established families and had all the opportunities and connections to excel. Why does small town America believes this is the party for them? Christian conservatives seem to the be the first ones who want to go to war and bomb someone before any diplomacy is tried. Why can't small town America and Christian conservatives are being used as pawns just as much the Islamic fundamentalist are. Islamic fundamentalist come from small town Middle East and given the same kind of talking points as the evangalicals. They want prayer in school, no choice available to women, and believe to the core that their ideas about worship and country are the best. Wake up small town America you are being played.

Posted by: Small town America | September 8, 2008 11:15 PM | Report abuse

Stan - right on! It's amazing how the republican party has turned it's back on the best presidential candidate. Ron Paul's tried and true, no pandering, no corruption, and he's for real CHANGE you can believe in! The out of touch Republican party has missed the forest for the trees by nominating McCain, who positions on issues are so weak they cannot withstand debate. He has to result to one liners and gimmicks like his VP pick for attention.

Posted by: Mike | September 8, 2008 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Ok.. now I understand why people complaint about Obama campaign? They recruit some college students who don't know what they are talking about.. just trash the blogs with some junk.

I am going to agree with Jon here. Obama promised a high road during primary but turned out he diminished himself to a low dirty politics.

I also believe this is how it looks like from outsider perspective.

McCain - no contest from democrats
Obama running against Palin for VP
Biden - no direction no destiny.

I would say Biden is lost in the wild.

If no one can explain why obama is taking low road here based on who ever his strategist advise is. We are going to believe that he is not a man of his words

Posted by: joseph | September 8, 2008 11:14 PM | Report abuse

I see republicans think since mccain been in washington for some 30 something years he is experienced,but thats the same washington that is broke and he talks about he is an outsider.He is one main reason it is broke

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:13 PM | Report abuse

I think Obama might need to take off the Gloves and really go after Palin already. Before he loses his spotlight for good.


Has anyone else read this story about a possible Affair Sarah Palin had? That is just one of the Scandals listed at this site. http://www.hotpres.com

This site has background info on sarah Palin Bio, Pics, Videos, Alot of Polls like how many people actually think that she is attractive? http://www.theveep.com

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who votes Republican this year is more delusional than the candidates they support. In recent weeks, John McCain and the Republican party have blatantly and without any shame adopted the Democratic campaign theme of “change”. It should be evident to an objective observer that Bush 43 and now McCain and Pailin are mere puppets to the true Republican national party leaders who control their strings. Cheney is one of the few of that inner cabal that have been calling the shots since the Nixon administration. They are in fact a continuation of the Nixon and Ford presidencies with only a disruption during the Carter and Clinton years. Bush 41(former head of the CIA,VP, and president is probably the real leader of this political Cosa Nostra if not a equal partner of this power sharing musical chairs game. His right and left hands have been Dick Cheney(former Sec.of Defense of Bush 41, former White House Chief of staff for Ford) and the other is Donald Rumsfeld(former Sec. of Defense for Ford and Bush 43,former special envoy to the Middle East during Reagan). Another member of this group, more likely a captain if not a full blown boss himself is James Baker (former C.O.S of Reagan, former Under Sec. of Commerce for Ford, former C.O.S and Sec of State for Bush 41, former Sec. of Treasury for Reagan, former chief legal advisor to Bush 43). Another captain or free lance enforcer is Karl Rove a college drop out and campaign manager for both Bush 41 and 43, also for Phil Gram who is McCain’s economic advisor.
Lets look at McCain’s staff of change.
On July 2, 2008, Steve Schmidt was given "full operational control" of McCain's campaign. Steve Schmidt prior to this was a top aide to Dick Cheney and a protégé to Karl Rove. Another advisor is Charles R. Black worked for Ronald Reagan's two Presidential campaigns in 1976 and 1980 and he was a senior political adviser to the 1992 re-election campaign of George H.W. Bush. Another advisor is Randy Scheunemann. He was project director for the Project for the New American Century. A neo-conservative think tank founded by non other than Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Bill Kristol and others in 1996. Other signatories to this group reads like a who’s who of the last 8 years of the republican administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century.
These people have never cared about small town america or “values” All they care about is war profiteering. Many of the signatories have never served in the military. Cheney and Rove both dodged the draft. Look at the statement of principles by the PNAC. Rumsfeld was a good friend of Saddam Huessin in the 80’s Cheney didn’t want Nelson Mandela free. These are the real puppet masters, they throw out the talking points about the left of being elitist and not caring middle america and these same guys other than Rove have advanced degrees and are worth no less than 10 million dollars. People who support them need to extricate their heads out of Limbaugh and Hannity’s asses and see what is really happening to them. McCain is not his own man he confuses stories of his real life with a book he read “The Gulag Archipelago, in which a fellow prisoner - not a guard - silently drew a cross in the dirt with a stick.” An ironic twist to all this is Eliot A. Cohen, a signatory to the PNAC "Statement of Principles", responded in The Washington Post: "There is no evidence that generals as a class make wiser national security policymakers than civilians. George C. Marshall, our greatest soldier statesman after George Washington, opposed shipping arms to Britain in 1940. His boss, Franklin D. Roosevelt, with nary a day in uniform, thought otherwise. Whose judgment looks better?"[
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2581086/John-McCain-accused-of-plagiarising-Wikipedia-for-speeches.html. Even if you don’t like Obama there is no-way a sane person can want this continued blatant fleecing of our Nation.

Posted by: Irony | September 8, 2008 11:11 PM | Report abuse

I watched Palin's speech and when she made the comment about Dems being more interested in reading terrorists their rights - I had to turn off the TV. You can be snide about the competition but that comment shows a blatant disrespect for the basic human rights of ALL people. I am glad to see that Obama took issue with it!

Posted by: Kim | September 8, 2008 11:10 PM | Report abuse

Palin has skeletons. The Repukes dont wanna let her talk because they are scared a damn bone will come out her mouth.

Posted by: Jim | September 8, 2008 11:09 PM | Report abuse

I think republican is back in force with there non sense .Even if Paline cites grocery list this entire dumb people will say wow that is incredible list. So bottom line is this right wing nut case will be happy even if dumb person call there shot. Not that long same people were saying McSame is the west and doesn't hold there value. Now they are saying he is hero. any person with age over 70 is consider as retired .Why we have age limits in all official post including janitor in office because after certain period of time you loose your sense. Now this Republican wants most important job in hand of old person with most inexperience person with GODS will to run our country. I think this is one of the biggest gamble to win the election. I don’t see country first here…..

Posted by: ash | September 8, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

We need someone like Ron Paul, but lacking that, I'm a Republican for Obama.

Posted by: Stan | September 8, 2008 11:07 PM | Report abuse

t.Hill,

You are correct that Obama's comments about killing terrorists if they are in sight to be slightly in conflict with Habeas Corpus. However, this is wartime, and the terrorists are the enemy. IF we catch them, Habeas Corpus and the Geneva convention rules should apply. Obama states as much.

However, it is within a soldier's rights, during wartime in a battle zone, to kill enemy combatents if they present a clear and present danger to US troops or US civilians on the mainland.

But once arrested, due process should follow under habeas Corpus and Geneva convention rules.

Posted by: Lost Soul | September 8, 2008 11:06 PM | Report abuse

Can one person out there tell me what mccain stands for?

Posted by: thomas | September 8, 2008 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Wait till the press asks her about her husbands AIP membership...what is she gonna say? She hasnt even been fully vetted. The Repubs should be scared. I dont see her lasting past the AIP stuff

Posted by: Jim | September 8, 2008 11:03 PM | Report abuse

I thought, Obama will discuss the issues with americans.. but where in this speach obama have you mentioned about our high gas prices? and what is your solution?
Where have you mentioned obama about our bad economy? and what is your solution?

Lets not waste our time obama talking about the things that least matter to us today and the things that we already know about.

You are diminishing yourself to no 2 position in this election. Here;s how I look at it.

McCain - no contest from democrats
Obama is running against Palin
Biden - no direction and no destiny

This is what the campaign looks like from outside. I thought you are atleast intelligent enough to run a good clean campaign.

Posted by: Jon | September 8, 2008 11:02 PM | Report abuse


And McCain has 7 houses if he can remember...Keep voting Repuke and see where it gets us...morons

Posted by: Jim | September 8, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

I laugh seeing republicans talk about obama doind dirty politics.When thats all mccain the "maverick" been doing the whole time.Need to quit crying about how plain been treated and let her stand up for herself

Posted by: thomas | September 8, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Obama wants to just kill them which is a violation of due process unless they are an immediate threat so how how does he reconcile that with allowing suspected terrorist Habeas Corpus rights?

Posted by: t. hill | September 8, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

We don't know much about Obama? Just what is it that you don't know? How much do we know about Sarah Palin? I think we are just finding out. All of you Obama haters who are always putting down Rev. Wright and Obama's former church, check out her churches and her beliefs. They are wacko, worse than George W. Bush. But, that's what happens when you don't vet your VP.

Posted by: Carolyn Grace | September 8, 2008 11:00 PM | Report abuse

What is the Republican response to following a leader who voted with Bush over 90% of the time?

1)Things are going to be different
2)Sarah Palin knows things well find out when we see her in her next scripted interview
3)Barack is a Muslim
4) All of of the above

OBAMA AND BIDEN 08 because I am not stupid or racist.

Posted by: Get Real | September 8, 2008 10:59 PM | Report abuse

The Bush administration has shredded the Constitution in the supposed war on terror. Palin should know better, as well as McCain. Barack Obama is not soft on terrorism, but reminds us that we should not do the bidding of the terrorists by desparaging the foundations of American democracy.

More on Barack Obama and the presidential campaign at http://www.barack-obama-president.com

Posted by: Sheldon | September 8, 2008 10:58 PM | Report abuse

BARACK, YOU SHOULD SHUT UP!..YOU CANT TELL SARAH PALIN AND MCAIN WHAT TO DO OR WHAT TO SAY...YOU SAID THAT MCAIN AND SARAH ARE LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE....YOU ARE LYING TOO...YOU ARE BLOODY POLITICIAN...LIKE ANY POLITICIAN THAT WHAT YOU DO ...LIE,LIE LIE 24 HOURS A DAY UNTIL YOU GET ELECTED...BUT MAYBE THIS NOT YOU YEAR....WAIT 4 MORE YEARS UNTIL YOU GROW UP AND GET SOME EXPERIENCE ...YOU CANT SPEAK ABOUT CHANGE..YOU HAVENT CHANGE ANYTHING IN YOUR LIFE..THE ONLY CHANGE IS THAT NOW YOU HAVE BIGGER HOUSE THAN BEFORE 10 YEARS..

Posted by: TIM | September 8, 2008 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Even Mitt Romney called McShame a bait and switch politican. Why are the Repubs always two steps behind? Oh thats right cuz they like to hold the country back from progress.

Obama/Biden 08 = Only real solution

Posted by: Jim | September 8, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

We all know about constitution and lets get to fact that Obama is preaching the coir here.. and why would he diminish himself to run against number 2 on republican ticket?

It really look bad and his respect among us is diminishing too.

I agree, its a bad strategy and Axelrod need to be slapped for this advise

Posted by: joseph | September 8, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

not only was it a bad strategy, but shes not making fun or mocking the constitution, shes mocking an interpretation of it. there are a great number of people who realize that directly after the constitutions formation America was at war and they did not follow the exact guidelines of prisoner treatment. not all is fair in love and war, but its a hell of a lot easier to make reparations for torturing someone than to resurrect 10,000 dead.

Posted by: dale | September 8, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Do you think america is dumb to believe if its a lie? But Obama should have taken a high road as he promised in the speaches.

He essentially gone back on his own words and now playing dirty attack politics against a women? That not what we expected from him based on what he said in speeches.

Posted by: jon | September 8, 2008 10:55 PM | Report abuse

I find comments here insulting to all Americans. Obama is right. Habeas Corpus is what seperates the USA from Fascism, dictatorships, and totalitarian rule.

John McCain lost all my respect when he caved to Bush on torture. McCain devalued his entire POW experience by not standing up to Bush against the very travails he endured.

Let's not forget that our country is governed by laws. It is also governed by a principle of a seperation of church and state.

We have lost our way lately on these two issues. These two vital issues that protect us from fringe elements taking too much power under a religious banner; They also protect us from despots throwing us in jail without due cause and without representation.

Call me a liberal. Call me a constitutionalist. But I am an independant that values the living document that our forbears fought for and died to preserve. I am not agnostic, but I strongly believe that God would want us to rule for people of all faiths regardless of the sect.

That is why our forefathers wanted the seperation of church and state. This is why our supreme court needs to rule on constitutional law and not by any one religious understanding.

And this is why religious ideology is an important issue so that we can avoid undue religious influence. If you want to change constitutional law to allow the USA to march under God's banner in wartime, instead of Old Glory, change the document that governs us by changing it through established procedures. If you want abortion to cease, establish a case to change the constitution.

But keep religion away from election dialogue, and keep religious idealogues from winning elections just to change abortion rulings on the supreme court.

Posted by: Lost Soul | September 8, 2008 10:54 PM | Report abuse

Number 1 and Number 2 run on the same platform. Number 2 supports Number 1's position and vice-a-versa. So when Obama rightly criticizes what *either* number 2 or number 1 says, then he is criticizing the position of that ticket. So get over it. It's obvious that the McCain-Palin ticket do not understand the constitution. We need elected officials that understand our constitution, not someone who thinks it's 1980 and not some celebrity from Alaska.

Posted by: Ed30041 | September 8, 2008 10:54 PM | Report abuse

I have to blame his campaign strategists its a bad strategy to bring their presidential candidate down to run agains number 2 of oponent ticket.

Bad strategy! Alexrod. a path to failure this fall.

Because of this McCain looks really presidential.

Posted by: joseph | September 8, 2008 10:53 PM | Report abuse

I love Palin, but this is a valid point.

I'm hoping -- knowing her libertarian tendencies -- that this was more speechwriter than her. But it'd be a good question for Gibson to ask.

Posted by: info | September 8, 2008 10:52 PM | Report abuse

"I mean, you can't just make stuff up," Obama said of a new McCain ad that says Palin "stopped the Bridge to Nowhere." "You can't just recreate yourself. You can't just reinvent yourself. The American people aren't stupid."................SHUT UP BARACK!...WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE...SOMEBODY SPECIAL ONE ....YOU SAY THAT SARAH PALIN WAS NOT TELLING THE THUTH!!!....SHE IS BETTER THAN YOU MR. BARACK!....SHE IS MORE EXPERIENCED THAN YOU..SHE IS A GOVERNOR AND MOM OF 5 KIDS...YOU HAVE 3 YEARS OF SITTING IN THE SENATE!..BARACK OBAMA HAS NOT DONE ANY CHANGE FOR BETTER FOR UNITED STATES..HE IS JUST TALKING LIES..HE HAS HOPE AND BELIEVE IN THE FUTURE..BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE HIS ACOMPLISHMENTS ARE!!

Posted by: Tim | September 8, 2008 10:51 PM | Report abuse

The rule of law is the only thing that makes America better than our enemies. Not blind patriotism, not jingoism, not repeating lies over and over until low information folks believe it. My freinds, McCain's campaign is lying to America, like we're some kind of dumb crackers that can't figure out the truth. Are they right?

Posted by: Bob | September 8, 2008 10:51 PM | Report abuse

I don't think there is ever a good way to compare yourself to a bomb-throwing terrorist. I think associating your name with a suicide bomber is not the way to get elected President.

I was also going to say that if you catch Barack in another country you might be pretty sure it's the bomb-thrower and not the guy running for President, but I guess that doesn't count when Barack is campaigning for President of the World.

Somebody should explain to Barack Obama that in war, you don't read rights to the soldiers on the other side.

Posted by: Charles | September 8, 2008 10:50 PM | Report abuse

I understand that you are obama supporters but you know what? just ignore those comments and stop throwing mud on the blog with capital letters like brainless kids. lets debate objectively like grown ups.

look we are independents and we do not understand Why is obama running against Palin who is no.2 on republican ticket.

Is he scared to run against McCain?

That is a big problem for him especially when we do not know much about him. Now he really looks like comic character who attacks anything and everything without any common sense.

He should have taken high road but no.. he stooped down to dirty games.. that looks pathetic

Posted by: jon | September 8, 2008 10:50 PM | Report abuse

Do we really need "reporting" like this? If Peter Slevin weren't a complete hack he would have pointed out that the above reads like a WWF "argument", albeit with more demagoguery.

Here's an idea. First, the WaPo should print a correction to this story:

http://24ahead.com/blog/archives/007978.html

Even NPR has corrected their pile-on to the WaPo's story. ***NPR***.

Then, find some constitutional scholars and get some real questions for BHO, and ask him those questions.

Please do some real reporting for once.

Posted by: 24AheadDotCom | September 8, 2008 10:49 PM | Report abuse

Thank you, Barack. Take it to that smug, lying, corrupt, secessionist-loving racist masquerading as some upstanding hockey mom. McCain and this poseur need to be stopped from taking this country all the way down the drain even if his followers are too obtuse to see that they're voting for more Bush policy.

Posted by: Sandy | September 8, 2008 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Too Funny Sarah Palin has the Contitutional Law Professor all a fluster. Obama's Change is Marxism and America wants no part of it. McCain is the only candidate that has worked across party lines to get things done in D.C. Obama has voted 100 percent with the Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi wing of the Democrat Party. Obama can never deliver a single piece of Change Legislation. However, Sarah Palin and John McCain are the Change that Obama has been talking about. They have both been Bipartisan and cleaned up their constituencies. Sarah Palin has an 80 percent approval rating in Alaska 80 percent that is REPUB AND DEM. She proves she is the solution to the problems in American Politics. Get off the Partisan soap boxes.

Posted by: LOL | September 8, 2008 10:46 PM | Report abuse

MCCAIN+PALIN=BUSH 3RD TERM

You are sheep, with nothing but wool between your ears if you vote for someone who VOTED WITH BUSH over 90% of the time.

Put down the Palin-Aid and come join us here in reality.

Posted by: Wolf | September 8, 2008 10:46 PM | Report abuse

That is true, it looks like Obama is running for VP position.

I honestly thought obama will take a high road and do a better job. He proved me wrong by engaging himself into nasty attack politics. that too against a women?

Who is he running against? No 2 republican?

Posted by: joseph | September 8, 2008 10:45 PM | Report abuse

Who is Obama running against? He is getting comical!

Posted by: robtr | September 8, 2008 10:45 PM | Report abuse

Its really laughable to see Obama the number 1 is running against no 2 of republican. True american hero and Mavrick McCain looks true presidential by taking a high road.

Biden :) no where to be seen with all his lies and expertese palagrism

Posted by: Jon | September 8, 2008 10:41 PM | Report abuse

***If the plotters of the Sept. 11 attacks are in the government's sights, Obama went on, they should be targeted and killed.

"My position has always been clear: If you've got a terrorist, take him out," Obama said. "Anybody who was involved in 9/11, take 'em out."***

Hey Obama, that's a violation of their constitutional rights.

Posted by: toby hill | September 8, 2008 10:41 PM | Report abuse

BREAKING NEWS.

Martha on September 8, 2008 10:34 PM said she thinks Obama is talking about "my Muslim faith."

Do you feel threatened by that Martha?

Thanks for telling us you're "Muslim" Martha.

Posted by: MNobserver | September 8, 2008 10:41 PM | Report abuse

Obama mocked the US consitution by saying "they bitterly hold to their religion and guns" both guaranteed by the constitution amendments.

Obama mocked the constition by supporting the murder of unborn babies.

The terrorists (they are non-us citizen!) were caught trying to kill American citizens in combat or support the terrorists.

Obama is a lawyer who tries to mislead ordinary citizens "willfully" that US constitution of a free country protects lawless terrorists who don't obey any moral laws.

Vote for a Patiotic Americans - Not traitors.

McCain-Palin 08.


Posted by: RT | September 8, 2008 10:41 PM | Report abuse

"My position has always been clear: If you've got a terrorist, take him out," Obama said. "Anybody who was involved in 9/11, take 'em out"

It implies in simple logic that you cannot act until after the person commits the crime... and permits immediate murder of anyone that is judged aforehand of being involved in the crime without regard without investigation. So in fact by his own admission there really is no reason to give Habeus Corpus because you already Took them out.

and he is supposedly a constitutional law professor? I find that hard to belive.

Posted by: Tom | September 8, 2008 10:40 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure Obama defended the Constitution while he voted for the Patriot Act too, eh?

Posted by: ClassicalLiberal | September 8, 2008 10:39 PM | Report abuse

Speaking in tongues again? Rethugs? Get over it we have this election in the bag. We know what we are doing and you guys are still in the woods.

Posted by: James | September 8, 2008 10:38 PM | Report abuse

How can Palin mock the Constitution, when she probably never read it?

Stop yourself from being used as a political ploy.

Pro-woman Anti-Palin

Posted by: Sandi, NM | September 8, 2008 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Hillary says McCain is ready on day 1 but Obama is not.

Posted by: mike | September 8, 2008 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Obama must be claiming that there must be probable cause to execute a search warrant then a grand jury must indict based on the evidence collected, their rights must be read and only after that can an arrest be made. Obama talks about taking them out but that would be cruel and unusual punishment based on the constitution unless it can be established that the suspected terrorist was going to harm the arresting officer or troop.

Posted by: t. hill | September 8, 2008 10:36 PM | Report abuse

You dumb Republicans know nothing about this woman and there you go running towards her like flies. At least we put Barack through the hoops for 19 months and know him, here you are 1 week after the pick and you are in love.
She is not a leader, she can read a script and that's all she can do.

Posted by: SteveKo | September 8, 2008 10:36 PM | Report abuse

no wonder people say Obama is not ready for the job.. who said this? Biden his own VP.

Posted by: rachel | September 8, 2008 10:36 PM | Report abuse

When the muslim terrorists heard about this "my muslim faith" admission from obama.. they were dancing in the streets claiming victory.

Posted by: goodman | September 8, 2008 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Obama says "My muslim faith"

Posted by: martha | September 8, 2008 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Give them hell Barack...let them know we are not buying the bull...moose bull that is.

Posted by: Jim | September 8, 2008 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Palin:

"The Iraq war is a mission from God"

This woman is a nut case...she is a crook and crack head.

Posted by: Karen | September 8, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse

"a light will shower upon you".."you will feel ephipany".. you will say to yourself.. you got to vote whom?

Obama you looked like your 20 years pastor stupid Wright in this video. Do you think americans are fools?

You look like a brainless stupid dumb.

Posted by: lary | September 8, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse

Yes Barack teach them, send them back to school. Since it took Sarah Palin 5 universities in 6 years to graduate with one degree I very much doubt if she even knows what the constitution means. She probably thinks it's a type of beauty pageant and she can enter and get a prize.

The Constitution is the glue of this country it is what stops mad men from destroying this country from with in. The Constitution should be revered and respected, not set aside and ignored.

This Palin is really Bush/Cheney with lipstick.

Jesus was a community Organizer, Pontious Pilate was a Governor!!

Posted by: Kate | September 8, 2008 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Obama is out to lunch and sounding more unhinged every day. Panic is in his voice. He is flailing and rambling. Incoherent.

Why would anyone vote for this guy?

Above all, he IS more interested in ACLU talking points than protecting Americans from terrorists.

Posted by: philly | September 8, 2008 10:30 PM | Report abuse

"We may think it's Mohammed the terrorist, but it might be Mohammed the cab driver. You might think it's Barack the bomb-thrower, but it might be Barack the guy running for president."

And people thought it would be Biden making the memorable gaffes.

Hillary is still ready and on call.

Posted by: Teleprompter Salesman | September 8, 2008 10:30 PM | Report abuse

First off Obama has to be thought how to respect a women and fellow american citizens.. "These people"?

Obama behaves like a cultureless street boy on the campaign calling people "these people".. who are these people? Aren't they respected American citizens?

Of course how can you expect these basic human values from this guy? who himself has a questionable character and radical asociations. Oops! I forgot that he is from dirty chicago political machine..

Posted by: linda | September 8, 2008 10:29 PM | Report abuse

We know, for a fact, that Sarah Palin lied about being "against" the infamous Bridge to Nowhere. I don't mean that she flip-flopped. I don't mean she waffled, or equivocated, or mislead, or was disingenuous, or misspoke. I mean she lied outright. Period. She was, in fact, a supporter of the now-mocked symbol of pork and earmarks. She was a supporter during the entire process, up until the now-magical point when the entire thing had devolved into farce, and not even Republicans could attach themselves to such a boondoggle without paying a political price. Then, and only then, did she distance herself from it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/07/palin-in-06-i-wont-let-sp_n_124591.html
.

And by "distance herself", we mean "kept the money".

We know, for a fact, that Sarah Palin lied about being "against" earmarks. As mayor of her small Alaskan town, she hired a Team Abramoff lobbyist to squeeze Washington for generous funds, funds far in excess of what the average American small town could expect. The lobbyist delivered nearly $27 million worth of earmarks to the town of less than ten thousand people: a fine haul, indeed. She said so herself, in her own handwriting.

http://www.washingtonindependent.com/4328/more-on-palins-true-stand-on-earmarks
.

So she lied. Baldly and repeatedly. McCain is now on a multistate tour, repeating the very same lies -- and for Republicans, they are applause lines. Huzzah to the "anti-pork" governor whose state is more dependent on pork than any other state. Hooray for the "anti-earmarks" candidate who made a name for herself as a champion of the earmark.

The question is: what of it?

There is absolutely no penalty for lying, in politics. None. Zip. Nada. Sarah Palin could stand atop a stage and declare herself moon-goddess of Endor, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. Yes, the papers would correct her. There would be a few cable stories on how there was no prior record of her being declared a moon-goddess. In the end, however, it would not matter, and it would not matter because Republicans have decided that it does not.


For Republicans, there is no longer any moral taboo whatsoever against lying outright. The only relevant question is whether the lie is effective -- not whether it should have been done in the first place. Karl Rove can rail against the inexperienced nature of one vice presidential candidate -- a Democrat -- and without the slightest bit of explanation (or shame), but happily pipe up with praise for an unequivocally, plainly less experienced Republican pick. It is not expected that he be self-consistent in the slightest. Everyone understands from the outset that his role is to say bad things about Democrats, and good things about Republicans, and if the two things conflict spectacularly it is not considered a symbol of his dishonesty or evidence of a histrionic maliciousness towards factual discourse. It is merely spin. He can make a farce of his own prior arguments -- what does it matter? If he is comfortable with it, and the people who look to him for guidance rally behind it, then we can Newspeak our way into and out of any argument as neat as you please.

So what of it, if offshore drilling will not reduce gas prices. It's fine to say it anyway -- it doesn't matter. So what if the President of the United States says "we do not torture", and then we discover that the White House itself authorized acts that are torture under any rational definition of the word. He's the President, he can lie about anything he likes, as long as it has nothing to do with sex. And honestly, even if it does.

So what of it, if Sarah Palin says crooked things with a straight face? Name me one Republican who will object. Name me one -- just ONE -- diehard conservative who will be angry at the lie, instead of praising her for it. To hell with facts, there is another election to be won.

This is why I consider the Republican Party to be, at this point, a wrecked party. There is no self-consistent philosophy other than the acquisition and protection of their own power: there are certainly no moral or ethical boundaries that the party will internally enforce. John Edwards, a Democrat, had his political career effectively terminated when news of an affair came to light; a Republican can visit a prostitute wearing a diaper, and find himself easily forgiven. You can lie, you can staff your government with morons and ideologues, you can give a speech saying one thing while doing the exact opposite (a Bush specialty, in his State of the Union speeches. We bemoan constantly the Democrats' failure to keep a unified front, in order to pass a more meaningful agenda -- but you would be hard pressed to find even a single, lone Republican in Washington willing to buck the moral collapse of their own party. Such people once existed: they were voted out of office. All that remain are "pseudo-mavericks" like McCain, figures who will countermand every previous belief in order to regain the support of his own Republican party.

Palin may be an unapologetic liar, but there isn't anything even slightly surprising about that because George Bush has been doing it for the last 8 years.

The question is, are Americans actually stupid enough to vote for McCain/Palin who represent the EXACT SAME DISASTEROUS POLICIES that we have had force fed to us the last eight years?

I hope not....

Posted by: McCain + Palin = Bush's third term | September 8, 2008 10:29 PM | Report abuse

Hey Matt,

Speaking of "patriotism" how patriotic can Palin be when she supports a secessionist party whose founder hated America so much he refused to be buried on US soil? He's buried in Canada.

Palin gave a video message to the Alaskan Independence Party and told them, in their quest to secede from the union to "keep up the good work."

What would Abraham Lincoln think of that? He used to lock up secessionists, and he didn't respect habeas corpus either.

Just think: The first Republican president would have thown Sarah Palin in jail.

Posted by: Dan | September 8, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Obama doesn't care about the constitution, he cares about "empathy". The kind of empathy that finds infanticide in the constitution...

Posted by: yarrrrr | September 8, 2008 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Palin is mocking you, Senator, not the Constitution.

Posted by: JakeD | September 8, 2008 10:26 PM | Report abuse

Obama has a point, but why waste time in fighting over this? He needs a comprehensive strategy to take out Palin and McCain, not terrorists. He's on defense and he's wobbling...

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Posted by: mp | September 8, 2008 10:26 PM | Report abuse

All that he talks about are fundamental rights of all citizens in US. Question is Why would obama wants to give these same rights that citizens has to Terrorists who kill innocent citizens?

Do not try to confuse us obama. We are not fools we laughed because you looked like a dumb a**

Posted by: Anonymous | September 8, 2008 10:26 PM | Report abuse

that is right,
Obama lied about Hillary & Bill
Obama lied about NAFTA
Obama lied about his 20 years in racist church
Obama lied about Rezko
Obama lied about Kilpatrick
Obama lied about Iraq
Obama lied about Iran
Obama lied about his faith
list goes on...

Posted by: rick | September 8, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Why is that this guy Obama lie about anything and everything and everyone?

He should go get a life for himself.

Posted by: rachel | September 8, 2008 10:21 PM | Report abuse

Democrats need to be slapped for trashing the national flags. They are so radical, its scary to vote for them

Posted by: linda | September 8, 2008 10:19 PM | Report abuse

"First of all, you don't even get to read them their rights until you catch 'em," Obama said here, drawing laughs from 1,500 supporters in a high school gymnasium. "They should spend more time trying to catch Osama bin Laden and we can worry about the next steps later."

Is Obama so hungry to get elected that he's lost all touch with reality? Does he believe that John McCain is still in the Armed Forces or As Senator of Arizona is the Commander in Chief??????????
Wait till January Barack and John will be in charge and will be looking up the address of that Cave to knock on....and you can be sure Miranda will be left at home.

Posted by: Scott | September 8, 2008 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Added to that is Obama's higher taxes to trash the economy.

Obama? Why did you trash american flags after your convention?

Is that what is your patriotism?

Posted by: matt | September 8, 2008 10:18 PM | Report abuse

Give 'em Hell, Barack!

Posted by: First Mouse | September 8, 2008 10:18 PM | Report abuse

Who is obama? What is a street organizer?
What have you done for America or Americans Obama?

unlike McCain who has a wonderful record of service to this great nation and a true american hero. What do you have to show us?
Just don't ask us to vote.. show us that you have got what it takes to get the job done. Right now, we do not believe you have got it and your background is shady with radical pastor wright, rezko, auchi, farakhan, sharpton, jackson...
We do not trust you to protect us from Fundamentalist Islamic Terrorist.

Posted by: richard | September 8, 2008 10:17 PM | Report abuse

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