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Joe the Plumber: Not a Licensed Plumber


Plumber Joe Wurzelbacher watches the presidential candidate debate in his home in Ohio on Oct. 15, 2008. (Lori King/Toledo Blade)

Updated 3:20 p.m.
By Robert Barnes
Joe the Plumber is not exactly a plumber, he's "not even close" to making the kind of money that would result in higher taxes from Democrat Barack Obama's proposals and has such an aversion to taxes that a lien was filed against him by the state of Ohio.

Such is the whirlwind of information that has come out about Joe Wurzelbacher of Holland, Ohio, since Republican John McCain made him famous in last night's debate. McCain mentioned him more than 20 times to use him as a symbol of hard-working Americans who would be hurt by Obama's tax policies. Obama and Wurzelbacher met earlier in the week in Toledo, where Wurzelbacher said Obama's plans to raise taxes on those making $250,000 a year or more would penalize him in his plans to buy the plumbing business for which he works.

Wurzelbacher since then has been on Fox News, interviewed by CBS's Katie Couric and appeared on ABC's "Good Morning America."

Not all the attention has been welcomed. Wurzelbacher, 34, told the Associated Press that he was not a licensed plumber. Because he works for a small company that does residential work, he said, he doesn't need to be licensed.

Wurzelbacher, whose legal name is Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher, owes the state of Ohio $1,182 in personal income taxes, according to tax records that show a lien for that amount filed against him in January 2007.

Wurzelbacher said he is of modest means, but worried Obama's tax plans would eventually hurt him. "You see my house. I don't have a lot of bells and whistles in here, really. My truck's a couple of years old and I'm going to have it for the next 10 years probably. So I don't see [Obama] helping me out,'' he told reporters this morning.

He also sounded concerned about the attention he is receiving. "I'm completely flabbergasted with this whole thing and just hope I'm not making too much of a fool of myself and hope I can get my message out there," he said.

Posted at 12:34 PM ET on Oct 16, 2008  | Category:  The Debates
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Comments

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It is interesting to see the media army parked outside the house of Joe, however there are is no media army parked outside the house of Bill Ayres.

Taxing peoples income over $250K? And saving people like Joe whos income is under $250K, so lets just raise tax Joe's employer, and watch the trickle down effect.

Posted by: Jenny8 | October 21, 2008 9:49 AM

I thought that the Democrats were going to grow jobs? So far they've put Joe + 3 out of work; 4 down, many many more to go. God forbid you ask The One a question that makes his answer reveal his true self. This is step one in their Stalinist "kill the messenger" tactics. This is the new left. They care more about a plumber who dares to ask a question of their candidate then they do about their candidate's buddy who bombed the Pentagon. Nice. There goes my country.

Posted by: sheila7 | October 20, 2008 11:26 AM

Posted by: jaiderbertoli | October 20, 2008 11:01 AM

He is just a selfish dead beat red neck who would not pay his taxes.
This meat-head does not understand that any society needs to provide services and its members to pay for it in the form of taxes for:
Roads
Schools
Law enforcement
Justice
Health to the needy
Prisons for Criminals- meat heads.
etc...
But then again it is asking too much from this tax-dodger to understand these things!
He is not alone though... the repulsive party is full of them!

Posted by: tb1123 | October 20, 2008 12:18 AM

You all are hilarious.

Joe is a plumber.

Who cares if he owes taxes. Obama has people on staff who owe back taxes.

Joe has a dream of owning his own business one day - and you all are bashing him for it. Sounds like hope and change?

It was Obama who gave the stupid answer. Let's attack Joe because Obama told the truth about his plan and you don't like it.

Posted by: pier117 | October 19, 2008 7:41 AM

Question.....why can't an employer garnish wages to collect owed taxes? Ohio can garnish wages for almost everything else???

Posted by: katzsandbox | October 17, 2008 2:55 PM

townerc001...it's more about his comments to the media about social security, etc. that bother me most. Nothing wrong with the question he posed Obama BUT he could have asked the question without pretending to be someone he was not......he didn't have to tell an untruth about who he was and what he was intending to do....just how was he going to get financing to purchase a plumbing business?

Posted by: katzsandbox | October 17, 2008 2:49 PM

I'm reading on the blogs that he IS in fact r/t the Wurzelbacher associated with the Keating 5....is this just a coincidence (with a "wink and a smile")? Come on...Obama didn't knock on his door....he approached Obama.....get it?????

Posted by: katzsandbox | October 17, 2008 2:44 PM

vimrich | October 16, 2008 9:30 PM is right. Challenge Obama Apophis and his snake guards come out.

Posted by: OldAtlantic | October 17, 2008 2:03 PM

OK you conservadrones, correct my spelling.

It's the only thing you are good for.

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 17, 2008 11:10 AM

Joe the Plumber = Joe the Symble for Mcain's Campaign

Joe doesn't HAVE a plumbling license
Joe doesn't pay his taxes
Joe doesn't make $250,000/yr he makes $40+/yr
Joe boss had no intention of selling his business.
Plumbers only average $47k/yr anyway
Joe is not dealing in reality.
Joe would stand to save on taxes under Obamas plan
Joe's name isn't even "Joe" it's Sam (his middle name is Joe.

SO JUST LIKE MCCAIN AND HIS CAMPAIGN, YOU DIG A LITTLE DEEPER AND IT'S JUST A WEB OF LIES

Joe is a typical conservadrone

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 17, 2008 11:09 AM

Posted by: jaiderbertoli | October 17, 2008 9:17 AM


To JPRS, Your point is a citizen like JOE is not qualified to ask his potential to-be president a tax question.


"That American dream won't be available for long if everyone cheated on income taxes like Joe Wurzelbacher.

I can also tell you that most legit plumbers have over-head for things like insurance and license fees.

If you have people like Joe undercutting licensed professionals, it's going to kill wages and the trade as well."

JPRS, JOE may not be a model plumber, BUT the issue here is JOE asking the tax question ,it's not about JOE. Are you saying that there are no democrats who don't pay license fees, there are not democrats who are illegal immigrants or convicts??
Are you yourself perfect???
Do you have to pass a security background check from liberal media before you ask a question at Mr. Obama rally??? It sure looks like it.

Thousands of business owners are thankful that JOE asked the question. We should be discussing the tax and how we are affected by it, not turning a query into a bloody mess like an uncivilized mob.

Posted by: townerc001 | October 17, 2008 8:39 AM

"I think what has happened to Sarah Palin and now Joe the Plumber is just a shot across the bow that if you take after us we (the Obama campaign)will destroy you with whatever means it takes. No person is too small or insignificant or too Joe citizen...we will make you sorry you exercised your right as a free citizen of the US. It has come to this. Disgraceful!"

Exactly -well said. If you say anything, anything at all bloody democrats media don't like, they will tear your four limbs apart, whoever you are. Nice democracy.

Posted by: townerc001 | October 17, 2008 8:20 AM

McCain had some issues during the debate. Medical Issues? What we didnt know. Watch complete 2 min video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfG22Sjo2gM

Did Mike Huckabee SAY its Over for McCain?
http://www.HuckabeeShow.com

Posted by: pastor123 | October 17, 2008 6:27 AM

SAINT,
I guess you missed the lessons of pitfalls of deregulation? (You know, that $700 billion we just blew bailing out banks, et al.) Never forget that your share of that is $2,333.

Licenses and regulation are similar. You want your stockbroker to and banker to be regulated, don't you? We also want people who deal with health and safety building issues like electrical, plumbing, structural engineering, etc. to have licenses and the work they do to be inspected. Trust but verify worked for Reagan, so the same in the trades.

I suggest that Joe also take some small business finance classes at the local community college. It's probably just one night a week, but he'll finally learn the difference between a business that grosses $250,000 a year, $250,000 profit, and $250,000 in adjusted gross income.

SAINT, I suspect you're not quite out of high school, so you're still forming your views of the world. Take a finance class too, it will pay for itself.

Posted by: boscobobb | October 17, 2008 3:35 AM

lpm123 wrote:

Oh man, you'd think after not vetting Sarah Palin that the McCain camp would have done a few minutes of homework and found this out before trotting it out during the debate. Instead of "McCain Back on the Attack" tonight's headlines will be "Once Again, McCain Opens Mouth Before Checking the Facts."

....
You hit it on the nose.

The problem isn't Joe, or even Sarah. It's not doing the homework and actually checking the facts. Joe may be amusing, but he's pathetically misinformed about politics AND business. (I founded and sold a few businesses to NYSE-traded firms.)

This also explains why McCain wanted to invade Iraq on 9/12/01, and still wants to bomb Iran.

Posted by: boscobobb | October 17, 2008 2:28 AM

Did someone from mcchimp's camp hired "Joe" to approach Sen Obama in hopes of trying to make the good senator look bad?

Ironic if true they hired someone who isn't a licensed plumber and couldn't buy the business because he owes almost $1,200 in back taxes.

What were they thinking of?

Posted by: flatlanddogs3 | October 17, 2008 2:17 AM

Joe the non licensed plumber should remember that the bush/mccain policies turned millions of americans dream into a nightmare. Joe the handy man and james sir I beg of you harris are already on the sarah palin has been wagon.

Posted by: r4147824 | October 17, 2008 12:36 AM

When Barack Obama says "Its not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody that is behind you, that they have a chance for success too. It's just that if we spread the wealth around it will be good for everybody" what exactly does he mean by this? How does he intend to do this? Can he explain it to America a little more specifically?

Posted by: ardysrp | October 17, 2008 12:25 AM

thank you to absolutkt1 for the link to the video!! I have forwarded it to MSNBC, MN REP Klobuchar asking laws be created in campaigning ethics and on to SEN. LEWIS who is the one person so far that McCain has heard quite loudly in racism. We may joke about Joe Plumber but this is really becoming a dangerous campaign. I am taking this link also to the alaskan frontier paper where Palin home is and they are not at all happy with her presently. maybe a bit of homecoming video will make someone in Alaska realize how really bad she has become as certainly McCain and Palin cant understand what they have created. America has taken what, 100 year step back to the deep racism of dangerous times.

Posted by: jsoelkers | October 17, 2008 12:23 AM

It appears "Joe the plumber" is not only a liar, he is a scab, his boss is a scab.

What was the point of Joe's questions to Obama, considering he was lying?

Joe makes $40,000 a year. His employee $100,000 a year. Joe is not buying his employer's business.

Joe hasn't paid his taxes and yet is worried about Obama's economic plan, which will not effect him, but save him money.

Why did Joe come forward with his little fairy tale? Joe is a liar and his 15 minutes of fame should have ended before they started.

Yet McCain invoked Joe the Plumbers name over 20 times without checking the facts on Joe. McCain saw Joe on T.V. and ran with a story that totally false. Can we trust a man who runs with a story he heard on the news and assumed as fact?

We all know what happens to you and me when you assume. Yep you make an ass out of you and me.

Posted by: stix282 | October 17, 2008 12:06 AM

"I'm completely flabbergasted with this whole thing and just hope I'm not making too much of a fool of myself and hope I can get my message out there," [Joe] said.

And that "message" would be?

Posted by: MichaelBierman | October 16, 2008 11:46 PM

Ohhhh LOL! :-D

Leave it to the Socialists who want EVERYTHING(But Illegal Employment by Criminal Employers of Invading Foreigners) to be COMPLETLY CONTROLLED AND REGULATED(For Taxes and Grift), and the Partners in the Dimocrat Crime; The Unions(Beneficiaries of said Grift);

To be SCREAMING the Loudest about a Construction Worker Working outside their control!

License?

LICENSES?

Weeeee d'on neeeeed,

no Stinkin Licenses! ;~)

Viva La Invasora!

Off to Walmart Senor Joe! :-(

Posted by: SAINT---The | October 16, 2008 10:37 PM

That's right...keep changing the subject. The point of the story is not about Joe the Plumber and whether or not he is a licensed plumber, has paid his taxes,or makes $250,000/year. The point of the story is Obama's answer to him. Some enterprising reporter (if such exists) should ask Obama if he meant everything he said to Joe the Plumber and if he indeed wants to "spread the wealth around" That is the nitty gritty of the Joe the Plumber story.

Posted by: ardysrp | October 16, 2008 10:36 PM

OMG!! such ignorance in this country! this was eastern ohio? down in the deep south someone is inserting KKK newspapers along with the real newspapers in mailboxes. Maybe the great country we have just is not ready for the 21st century. we truely are a bullying primative 3rd world mentality of spoiled brats. look at it the countries native americans still live on reservations in poverty and southwest still suffers from the cattle verses "any other animal" grazing fights. what next> skinheads with nazi???

Posted by: jsoelkers | October 16, 2008 10:20 PM

Check out this video:

Worst racist video of McCain supporters I have seen:

http://liesliesmorelies.blogspot.com/2008/10/mccain-racist-rally-goers-pt-6-worst-so.html

Posted by: absolutkt1 | October 16, 2008 10:07 PM

I am having this conversation because I am a laid off union licensed electrician and right now watching my 401K and pension decrease and trying to figure out how to make my COBRA insurance pymt along with my house, truck, utilites, etc. Wondering really wondering which-ever candidate gets elected (hopefully Obama!) IF either one of them will really have the power and determination to make a difference! Their is just soooooo much pork, pet, wasteful spending that neither one may be able to clean up washington. WE all need to start making congress accountable to clean up this country or suffer a no vote to all incumbents for re-elections. Which I will practice this election.

Posted by: jsoelkers | October 16, 2008 9:56 PM

vimrich,

Joe the "plumber" is getting his 15 minutes, and I'm sure that the RNC and McCain campaign will compensate him for his time -- if they haven't already.

The same can't be said for the licensed plumbers who work in Toledo who have their wages undercut by cheats like Joe the fake plumber. The fact that he can even dream of $250,000 worth of income is based on the fact that the Toledo area is unionized and requires licensing and professional standards for plumbers.

Also, as a matter of principle, just because a person doesn't like taxes, doesn't mean that a person should cheat on their taxes.

Posted by: JPRS | October 16, 2008 9:49 PM

This whole Joe the Plumber story is ridiculous. Joe is no where near earning 250K a year, and certainly doesn't appear to be in any position to buy a plumbing business. That's laughable. He's behind on his taxes for crying out loud. Why are we even having this conversation?

Posted by: davidwg35 | October 16, 2008 9:42 PM

Wow, Obama's brownshirts and MSM allies are out in full force and he hasn't even won! All this guy does is ASK A QUESTION and he may now lose his job. They post this guy's private home address on the Web?! Go through his personal life?! Just sick.

"Truth Squads" and ACORN, lawsuits to shut down talk radio and even bloggers, I can only imagine what will happen to political dissenters who try to speak out if BHO wins. scary scary stuff.

Posted by: vimrich | October 16, 2008 9:30 PM

"He who cast the first stone, probably didnt" McCain/Palin have taken the lowest immoral, unethical road on the campaign trail and they all have dirty cloths to laundry. This is the media not Obama tearing apart poor Joe. Obama at least gracefully didnt rip into palin when asked if she was qualified as VP after he was her target of inciting possibly a history making event! four days in a row I watched her rally inciting racial and terrorism into her crouds. McCain has been the one to bring disgrace to himself.

Posted by: jsoelkers | October 16, 2008 9:17 PM

Joe!!!I heard that you are a fraud planted by your low down party the Republican. Real sleazy I say fellow and is also a tax man on the lamb. I know they are going to bell you out before you awake in the morning and know that you have just been used and thrown out with the rest of the trash. I feel sorry how you like Palin just had to drag your kid into this mess.

Posted by: floridaihamp | October 16, 2008 9:10 PM

Wow, another Republican canard. What a surprise...

Posted by: Robert_In_WeHo | October 16, 2008 9:04 PM

rexreddy @ October 16, 2008 2:22 PM: At least in Virginia, if you are not licensed as an electrician, then you are NOT an electrician. If you practice the trade, you do so illegally. You see licensing implies many things, among others that you carry professional insurance to protect your customers.

Posted by: AMviennaVA | October 16, 2008 9:03 PM

"Obama's tax plan is less redistributive than that of FDR's, Truman's, Eisenhower's, Kennedy's, LBJ's, Nixon's, Carter's, and Reagan's (from 1980 to 1986). His plan is about the same as Clintons."

Bill Clinton's tax cut, promised during the '92 campaign, was jettisonded by Clinton himself in Jan'93 EVEN before he took office, and, of course, what we actually got was a tax hike before the Repub tsunami of '94. So don't waste pixels on B.O.'s "plan". Dwight Eisenhower said all that need be said about plans. What we got in that rare unscripted Ohio disclosure by B.O. -- which his sycophants in the press are so eager to obscure -- is a clear glimpse at his core philosophy, which, when expressed in the 19th century, was From Each According to His Means To Each According to His Needs.

Posted by: stemkowskip | October 16, 2008 9:03 PM

To all the plumbers in America:

Obama and Biden don't think that plumbers should earn 250K - they didn't graduate from Harvard, you know.

Posted by: dollyq | October 16, 2008 8:53 PM

I think what has happened to Sarah Palin and now Joe the Plumber is just a shot across the bow that if you take after us we (the Obama campaign)will destroy you with whatever means it takes. No person is too small or insignificant or too Joe citizen...we will make you sorry you exercised your right as a free citizen of the US. It has come to this. Disgraceful!

Posted by: ardysrp | October 16, 2008 8:52 PM

Joe the plumber isn,t a licensed plumber, he,s basking in the joy of world recognition today tho isn,t he? And how is it that McCain latched on to him so quickly? know that it was because the whole thing was a setup by the republicans a 'Plant' as was that frail old lady who said that Obama was a arab...MCain is using every dirty ploy to break through Obama,s solid lead now, So be wary of such scenes from now on to election time.
p.s. joe the plumber plumbed a big on this time and probably sits in a bar most of the time relishing drinks for him...might even be his favorite passtime or he WOULD go study to get a LICENSE.

Posted by: grdn_nell | October 16, 2008 8:50 PM

The McCain supporters of minor and moderate means thought they were there to witness their One's smoke and mirrors, and instead they found 'em selves looking right smack in the mirror at themselves... Ole Joe Plumber was just everyone's neighborhood Blowhard Joe. No money, no license, no scary taxes. Joe should read about not setting out to do a project before he counts the cost.

Posted by: mammyyel | October 16, 2008 8:49 PM

stemkowskip,

Obama's tax plan is less redistributive than that of FDR's, Truman's, Eisenhower's, Kennedy's, LBJ's, Nixon's, Carter's, and Reagan's (from 1980 to 1986).

His plan is about the same as Clintons.

Reagan's low top marginal rate and that under George H.W. and George W. also coincided with an explosion of the national debt and stagnant wage growth for ordinary Americans.

Why is it that Republicans are so opposed to middle class wage growth and real economic growth?

Why does McCain want to give MORE handouts to the top tax-payers courtesy of loans from China?

Why does the GOP feel that it has no social obligation -- like the generations before it -- to ensure that America's future generations are able to take part in the American Dream?

Do people want economic policies that work and create real economic growth -- similar to what we had in years past. Or do Americans want more Republican failure?

Posted by: JPRS | October 16, 2008 8:48 PM

Out of all the articles on the internet and newspapers--not one mentioning that Joe W actually said "I'm a plumber". Where's the evidence?!#!

In my view, heck, the guy could work as an office clerk IN a plumbing company, which is what most articles vaguely say. WaPo? where's the evidence, otherwise I say you're posting false info...?

If he said, "I'm a plumber" and we discovered all this 'false' info, then I would call him a liar and should be discredited, otherwise, this story has been blown out of proportion by the media, as propaganda, especially the left-leaning media. What a mess.

And owing 1200 in taxes is NOTHING compared to what businesses and wealthy folks owe. And it's 2007! Is that intrusion of privacy, he's not a public figure!? Considering the CNN richest cities list, and applying the same logic--most households in DC (i.e. Loundon Co) likely have *past due* electricity bills or even past due telephone bills over $1200!

Posted by: recharged95 | October 16, 2008 8:42 PM

What difference does it make if Joe the plumber is not what he said he was? It does not matter if he's apocryphal, hypothetical, or whatever because what he is does not matter. What matters is the answer he got from Obama who took his question seriously and answered it with what he intends to do. This is just a way to change the subject. Obama said as plain as day and I take it seriously that "It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody that is behind you, that they have a chance for success too. It's just that if we spread the wealth around it will be good for everybody..." He is a socialist and this off the cuff (and off the teleprompter) conversation is proof of it ,IMO

Posted by: ardysrp | October 16, 2008 8:42 PM

"Then the Gov't can destroy you and your reputation anytime they want." Indeed. And we're getting a preview of that now, courtesy of the pliant press that will be doing it on behalf of B.O. This "JOE THE PLUMBER IS NOT A PLUMBER!!!" screeching is just a cover for what B.O. was caught on tape saying to the guy -- that "I think that when you spread the wealth around it’s good for everybody." Karl Marx couldn't have said it better.

Posted by: stemkowskip | October 16, 2008 8:35 PM

pgr88 said the same thing when Clinton was President. And those were BAD times compared to now, let me tell you.

Get this, the stock market went up a LOUSY 300% in 8 years. Dow Jones up ONLY 37% a year! ONLY 22 million jobs were created, during 8 full years! There were only a RECORD 5.7 million small businesses created. Government budget in surplus. Boy, it sure was like Cuba! Times were tough!

Meanwhile, look at the Republican free market! Nearly 1 million jobs LOST in the past year. Stock market down to where it was in 1997. Biggest crisis since the Great Depression. All this and 5 Trillion dollars more in debt to boot BEFORE this crisis! The middle class standard of life had dropped BEFORE the crisis. Now, afterwards, watch out!

None of this needed to happen. None of it. Not. One. Bit. Sheer incompetence, stupidity, and completely braindead economic ideas.

Just what kind of idiots do you take us for?

Posted by: orrg1 | October 16, 2008 8:29 PM

Does NO ONE understand how taxes work?
If your tax rate jumps form 29% to 36%, it doesn't cover ALL the money you make!
Everyone is taxed the same up until you get until the next bracket!

I don't remember the cutoff points, but but lets say it's 27k 57k etc. If I make 50k after dedutions.. The first 27k is taxed the same for me as it is Warren Buffet! You don't pay higher taxes on anything but the amount OVER the next tax bracket! So if I made 251,000 under obamas plan, I would ONLY pay higher taxes on that 1,000 dollars.

Posted by: barlow_S | October 16, 2008 8:19 PM


NOT a licensed plumber. His boss's business DOESN'T make more than $250,000 (makes $100,000 --well under Obama's cap) He is NOT really trying to buy the business. He makes $40,000 a year, which would mean he would get a tax CUT under Obama. He DOESN'T pay taxes as is -- which is, uh, illegal. What a phony joke.

Posted by: monk4hall | October 16, 2008 8:18 PM

Joe the Plumber is neither "JOE" nor a "Plumber"!!! (Two LIES for one McCain statement!) And he would be helped by the Obama tax plan and not helped by the McCain plan. Also is one of less than 200 Wurzelbachers in the U.S., one of whom is the son-in-law of Keating and went to jail for ripping off people in the S&L debacle.

Posted by: Arce1 | October 16, 2008 8:16 PM

Well,

Joe's not a licensed plumber.

He has no plans to buy the business.

The business is only grossing $100,000, so that it would have its taxes lowered under Obama, but not under McCain.

Joe actually owes $1100 in back taxes.

If he voted for Obama, he might at least be able to pay his back taxes!

In other words, again we have the triumph of appearance over substance - its the Republican way!

So Joe's willing to cut the taxes for millionaires, so that his can stay the same - in the hope that he'll get rich some day. He's been waiting for eight years and going in the other direction!

Since Obama intends to help the middle class, Plumbers like Joe may be some day will have lots more customers. You think rich folks'll give you much business?

If it's idiotic - it's Republican. If it's really stupid, it must be McCain/Palin!


Posted by: orrg1 | October 16, 2008 8:15 PM

you McCain followers, I hope you have vetted him well. He almost brought America into the georgia/russia conflict. An endless war in Iraq (another vietnam, wars=profit for big business. Veterans report card gave him a D. Bomb first, dipolacy not. Can we afford to take on the world as bullies in the name of freedom and greed? Big business = overseas jobs. We already drive,wear,eat our imports so whats next? AND if Palin succeeds him wow we will all have to join the independant party of alaska. to me who is the worst of the two?? McCain unless you are a GOP politician, CEO, lobbiest or millionaire.

Posted by: jsoelkers | October 16, 2008 8:15 PM

With Obama as President, the free-sector of the economy will be like Cuba's.

You moonlight to make some extra money if you can, but the official regulation, taxes and rules as well as bribes to petty bureacrats will make it prohibitive for the average person, so we'll all become illegal. Then the Gov't can destroy you and your reputation anytime they want

Posted by: pgr88 | October 16, 2008 8:13 PM

"As noted by others, the media have spent more effort investigating "Joe the Plumber" in one day than they have spent investigating Obama in two years.........."

Ain't it the truth. One supposes that the tingle up their collective leg precludes them from properly reporting on B.O. You'd never know that 9 of 10 of them regularly vote Dem, would you? I also like the way that they hone in on the back taxes this guy owes -- as if he's some sort of hypocrite. If I owed back taxes, it'd be all the more reason for me to be wary of B.O.'s tax plans. And all of this media furor is for one purpose: To obscure B.O.'s redistributionist comment (straight out of Karl Marx) to this guy. Further proof that B.O. makes Sarah Palin look like Margaret Thatcher on the experience front. How eager the world's dictators must be for a naif of B.O.'s magnitude to steal office via his ACORN pals. Caring little about the fawning U.S. press, they'd roll B.O. in an instant.

Posted by: stemkowskip | October 16, 2008 8:09 PM

I guess the McCain camp used the same people to vet him that they used for Sarah. Aside from being a tax deadbeat and a shill for the GOP, this guy has voided the warrentees of all the equipment that he's install for his clients. Not the guy you'd want to hire, go into business with, or take advice from if you ask me.

Posted by: bluebirder | October 16, 2008 8:06 PM

Good heavens, McCain is posting web ads proudly featuring an endorsement from Joe the Plumber! Is he serious?? I mean, wow, JOE the PLUMBER is voting for McCain, maybe I should, too!!!

Posted by: chantooz | October 16, 2008 8:05 PM

Is this is the company Joe thinks is going to put him in the quarter million bracket? Newell Plumbing in Toledo, Ohio? Looks like they only have 2 employees and pulled in $100,000 in total sales. Check it out.

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_cc5ny2n

Posted by: joy2 | October 16, 2008 8:02 PM

Hey guess what - Joe the Plumber fathered Bristol Palin's baby!

Way to go boys - destroy anyone who doesn't agree with you! Worse than the Nazis you lot are!

Posted by: pgr88 | October 16, 2008 8:01 PM

To the enraged libs:

Joe the Plumber has already made election history and exposed the lib socialist agenda.

Posted by: dollyq | October 16, 2008 7:58 PM

GALLUP SHOCK: 49 OBAMA, 47 MCCAIN WITH LIKELY VOTERS

Hopefully Obama will get kicked to the curb.

Posted by: davec701 | October 16, 2008 7:56 PM

Wow, if Joe's boss doesn't have a license -- that's a problem too. Not only is the guy a tax cheat, he's breaking the law if he's practicing without a license in Toledo.

Joe is turning out to be the perfect GOP poster boy.

He's a cheater who games the system and then complains about having to pay the taxes that he never pays.

To top it off the guy's name was misspelled on his voter registration rolls -- I believe that's what the GOP is calling a "discrepancy" and voter fraud. Someone needs to take away his vote as well.

Posted by: JPRS | October 16, 2008 7:52 PM

Has anyone considered that this plumber thing was set up by the RNC? Nothing else is working so let's play a game and see if they catch us!
Like Bush, McCain will act wrongly and then say "So what are you going to do about it?"

Posted by: IndianaFinlander | October 16, 2008 7:48 PM

“BE AS VAGUE AS POSSIBLE”

BO said in an interview with Cathleen Falsani (Chicago Sun-Times, 4/2004) that “The nature of politics, you want to have everybody like you and project the best possible traits onto you. Often that’s by being as vague as possible, or appealing to the lowest common denominators. The more specific and detailed you are on issues as personal and fundamental as your faith the more potentially dangerous it is”

That explain everything about the empty suit: the hiding of all of his life records...

Posted by: coqui44 | October 16, 2008 7:48 PM

Regarding Joe the questionable plummer, McCain has brought in another person he knows nothing about. Gee sounds like his decision to bring in Palin!
Can this guy make a good decision?
I guess when you can't convince anyone to go your way, you become a maverick.

Posted by: IndianaFinlander | October 16, 2008 7:45 PM

Speaking of economic crises, Obama says that we should be "our brother's keeper." However, his OWN brother is living in dire poverty in some hellhole in Kenya. I wonder if Barrack could spare some change from his millions in book royalties (books about himself) to help out his brother. What a hypocrite!! Please donate to the charity fund established for Obama's brother (see link below). By the way, Obama's brother said that Barrack is "a good Muslim."

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/washington-whispers/2008/9/10/help-for-obamas-shack-living-brother.html
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Help his 'brother' or grandma in Africa? Are you kidding me?

He hasn't made a donation HERE for non-profit groups. The man is as greedy as the Wall Street vultures he protects.

There's an undercurrent of disgust of African Americans because the magnanimous messiah hasn't spent anything on black media outlets.

THE MAN IS A RACIST!!!

Posted by: coqui44 | October 16, 2008 7:42 PM

BUSTED AGAIN!! Joe's boss doent have the required license either!! Guess you and I will be supporting this national Joe THE PLUMBER now!! that sucks!! you notice who brought this guy up first thinking her was really communicating with the average Joe? this poor guy was a simple door knock on Obamas walk and McCain got whiff of a good story to run with. how many more lives will McCain ruin on his qwest for the oval office?? McCain/Palin are desperate for the white house! Hes washed up and she will not have a welcome homecoming back in alaska with the ongoing investigations there.

Posted by: jsoelkers | October 16, 2008 7:41 PM

Check out this excerpt about George Orwell's 1984 - it sounds like a description of the Obama campaign and the mainstream media!!

-----------

The Ministry of Truth is involved with news media, entertainment, the fine arts and educational books. Its purpose is to rewrite history and change the facts to fit party doctrine, for propaganda effect. For example, if Big Brother [the Democratic Party] makes a prediction that turns out to be wrong, the employees of the Ministry of Truth [the MSM] go back and rewrite history so that any prediction Big Brother previously made is accurate. This is the "how" of the Ministry of Truth's existence. Within the novel Orwell elaborates that the deeper reason for its existence is to maintain the illusion that the party is absolute. It cannot ever seem to change its mind (if, for instance, they perform one of their constant changes regarding enemies during war) or make a mistake (firing an official or making a grossly misjudged supply prediction), for that would imply weakness and to maintain power the party must seem eternally right and strong.

Posted by: davec701 | October 16, 2008 7:40 PM

This plumbing company is making $120,000/year. If Wurzelbacher increased his income to $250,000 and kept the same tax rate, he'd pay $90,000 in taxes. If he was taxed at Obama's rate for $250,000+, he'd pay $97,500 in taxes.

So Wurzelbacher is telling us that there's no incentive to increase his net income from $76,800 to $152,500, but it's a completely different story if he can have $160,000.

Really? Why don't I believe that?

Posted by: kevrobb | October 16, 2008 7:40 PM

As noted by others, the media have spent more effort investigating "Joe the Plumber" in one day than they have spent investigating Obama in two years..........

Posted by: LNER4472 | October 16, 2008 7:36 PM

AH, the plot thickens. Word on the street is that Joe the Plumber is related to McCain's blast from the past, Charles Keating!

You see, Keating's son-in-law, Robert Wurzelbacher, is "Joe the Plumber" Wurzelbacher's cousin. And Robert Wurzelbacher was an executive of American Continental Corporation, the parent company of Charles Keating's Lincoln Savings. That's the bank which caused citizens to lose their life savings and cost U.S. taxpayers $3.4 billion. As part of that scandal, Robert Wurzelbacher pleaded guilty to three counts of misapplying $14 million and served 40 months in prison. Robert now lives in Cincinatt.

Posted by: SaladSD | October 16, 2008 7:34 PM

Speaking of economic crises, Obama says that we should be "our brother's keeper." However, his OWN brother is living in dire poverty in some hellhole in Kenya. I wonder if Barrack could spare some change from his millions in book royalties (books about himself) to help out his brother. What a hypocrite!! Please donate to the charity fund established for Obama's brother (see link below). By the way, Obama's brother said that Barrack is "a good Muslim."

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/washington-whispers/2008/9/10/help-for-obamas-shack-living-brother.html

Posted by: davec701 | October 16, 2008 7:34 PM

OK Washington Post,does "Joe the Plumber" work as a plumber or not? Are you implying that he isn't actually a plumber? If he supported Obama, you would be fawning all over him right now, portraying him as a "bold American everyman" for standing up to those evil Republicans.

Speaking of licensing requirements, I think journalists should have to have a license. Maybe that would cut down on stupidity like this article. But then the Washington Post would only be two or three pages thick if you cut out all the stupidity. Bummer.

Posted by: davec701 | October 16, 2008 7:30 PM

JOE IS BUSTED! working with out a license. The local union will be all over his employer for sending him out to work alone. Hell get his. McCain ya did it again! what a ___________! ya know what a typical computer glitch is?? Id-10-t. get it? IDIOT IDIOT IDIOT. Go JOE.

Posted by: jsoelkers | October 16, 2008 7:29 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/Story?id=6047360&page=2

"Wurzelbacher conceded today that he is not in danger of being hit with the higher tax rate. He acknowledged that he wants to buy a plumbing company for $250,000 to $280,000. That wouldn't be how much profit he would make from the firm.

He would make much less, he said.

That would seem to indicate that Wurzelbacher would not be subject to Obama's proposed tax increase from 36 percent to 39 percent for those making more than $250,000 per family. Instead, he would be eligible for a tax cut that Obama is proposing.

Nevertheless, the plumber said people shouldn't be 'punished' for success even if you become a billionaire."

Posted by: kevrobb | October 16, 2008 7:27 PM

I guess I must be missing the obvious about all those people who are saying that "Obama will take my money and distribute it..." Considering that there are no tax increases under the Obama plan, I assume that all these people are maing $250,000 or more, because if they're making less, they'll be paying less. And if you're making that much, a quarter million annually, why are you even posting here anonymously/

And why is Joe that worried about Obama's plans to raise taxes on those making $250,000 a year or more? How, exactly, would it penalize him in his plans to buy the plumbing business for which he works? Forgetting that he obviously doesn't have $250,000, let alone make $250,000 a year, he'd have to make that much before he gets affected by increased taxes, and to make that much, he'd have to first save enough or take a loan to buy the business, and after he buys the business there's no guarantee that the company will even make $250,000 a year in business (let alone him making that much); the company's apparently only making half that now); he'd have to do double the business the company's just for the business to earn that much, let alone him earning that much.

Mr. Wurzelbacher isn't making close to the income level that would make him pay a tax increase, yet he's supporting a man who's tax plan WILL give tax breaks to those that make the most income, and will increase taxes on those making less; that is, those making what Mr. Wurzelbacher hopes to someday make will pay less, while Mr. Wurzelbacher will pay more. Where's the incentive for him to vote for Senator McCain and Senator McCain's tax plan?

Mr. Wurzelbacher is 34, describes himself as a man of modest means, and says his house doesn't have a lot, and his truck, which is a couple of years old, will have to last for the next 10 years, and he doesn't "see [Obama] helping me out."

I'm kind of sorry, but I don't see Joe being in the quarter of a million dollar a year salary bracket for quite a while; and if he was, I don't think the small tax increase (for those earning a quarter million dollars a year or more) as being that big a deal; by that time, I'm pretty sure he'd be able to work with tax laws, exemptions, or perhaps invest in tax free earnings.

So, where's the problem for him? And why is he so conerned about what he wants to make (but isn't close to making) that he'll vote for some who WILL increase his taxes, and complain about a candidate who will REDUCE his taxes? Why criticize a candidate who will increase taxes on only the people in the highest income bracket, but not critize a candidate who will reduce taxes on the people making the most income?

Dungarees@gmail.com

Posted by: Dungarees | October 16, 2008 7:26 PM

Note from Obama campaign HQ, Ministry of Truth:

Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

Posted by: davec701 | October 16, 2008 7:25 PM

I don't want to pay my mortgage or student loans. Just because I borrowed money doesn't mean I should have to pay it back. Its not fair. I want Obama to give me everything so I don't have to do anything. Why should I pay for my own health care when Obama will make YOU pay for it?? Ha ha, suckers.

Posted by: davec701 | October 16, 2008 7:20 PM

Note from Obama campaign HQ: We need to destroy this Joe guy ASAP because it looks like he might oppose us. Our media affiliates have already dug up some dirt on him, but we need to make sure that we smear him real good. Anyway who stands in our way must be eliminated. This is the only way that we can implement "Change we can believe in." Remember, Obama can't "improve our standing in the world" if he is not President, so any tactic is justified in this quest for power. After the election, we will have to shut down Fox News and talk radio because they oppose our vision of Marxist utopia. Don't get us wrong, we strongly believe in the 1st Amendment, but we will have to suspend it for awhile in order to do good for the world. Go get'em !!!

Posted by: davec701 | October 16, 2008 7:12 PM |

+++++++++++++++==

Yeap. It's the Hussein Truth Squad, coming to a town near you.

The "change' Hussein is bringing is the free use of the Secret Service to harass dissenters and those against his candidacy.

Don't forget: you've got 90 days to pay your mortgage or the magnanimous messiah will evict you. How dare you not pay the bankers, while they steal a few trillions from you?

Posted by: coqui44 | October 16, 2008 7:18 PM

Once again John McCain didn't bother to do his homework before he threw another right wing zealot into the public eye without proper vetting. Poor Joe isn't at all who McCain hoped he was-- anymore than Sarah Palin is the blameless hockey mom.

JOE THE PLUMBER IS JUST ANOTHER RAPE VICTIM WHO CAN'T IDENTIFY HIS RAPIST AND IS PLANNING TO VOTE FOR HIM. Sad, sad, sad!!!

Posted by: mhitchons | October 16, 2008 7:17 PM

Note from Obama campaign HQ: Your average, real Americans like Sarah Palin and "Joe the Plumber" are not welcome here. We prefer elitist snobs like ourselves who have never run a business, never served in the military, and never governed a city or a state. Only suckers work hard for a living. The smart ones will wait for Obama to take money away from the people who earned and "spread the wealth around."

Posted by: davec701 | October 16, 2008 7:17 PM

Samuel J. Wurzelbacher, who has been trying to pass himself off as "Joe the Plumber" is just another phony and should be in jail for failure to pay his taxes. He is just another scam by the McCain campaign, just like that very corrupt woman from Alaska. Well, both of their 15 minutes of fame are more than up. And both phony Joe and corrupt Sarah are just two reasons why John McCain's judgment cannot be trusted. And what was up with McCain sticking his tongue out all night during the debate Wednesday (Reuters had a great photo). That's certainly a true sign of his mental status.

Posted by: mountaindonna | October 16, 2008 7:17 PM

ok everybody, share the wealth. Send Joe the Plumber a donation so he can pay his back taxes, get a good credit rating, perhaps get license so he can realise his 250,000 dream.

Posted by: MILLER123 | October 16, 2008 7:16 PM

"He also sounded concerned about the attention he is receiving. "I'm completely flabbergasted with this whole thing and just hope I'm not making too much of a fool of myself and hope I can get my message out there," he said.
"

Sorry Joe but you most definitely made a fool of yourself. Toledo Blade filled in the details:

(1) You do not have a license to work as a plumber in that county and you are violating county licensing laws.

(2) You owe taxes that you have not paid. And Joe? That means no bank will lend you money to buy the business for which you work. Bad credit, tax liens = no loan.

(3)The Toledo paper reported that you make around $40,000 a year and are a sngle parent.

(A) Odds are on that your chld' health insurance is through the State of Ohio SCHIP program which is based upon income. That means you probably are getting government provided health insurance for your kid since $40,000 a year does not pay for private non-group family coverage and chances are the little business whch you work for doesn't provide it either.

If that business is grossing around $250K, around 1/2 of that will go to materials and equipment as do most construction related businesses. That would leave $125,000 which would be $40K for you, $8000 in employer contributions to witholdng and unemployment and $78K for the owner. No place in that budget for $24,000 a year in premiums for 2 households.

(B) You are in the bottom 40% of income and you are worried about the top 5%?? Dream on. They wouldn't let you in the house for a glass of water.

(4) You are NOT what the real Republicans consider 'one of them' in terms of being a businessman and buying that little business won't change that.

You have a basic problem with business concepts anyhow since you do not grasp the difference between gross income and net profit. Gross is what comes in. Net is what is left after business expenses. Net is what you pay taxes on.

I suggest a course on basic accounting at the community college before you try being in business.

So sorry Joe but you more than made a fool of yourself but you are to be pitied for the being so stupid as to fall for the Reublican shtick that if you are self-employed or have an employee or two, that you will be 'one of them' and they will give a d*a*m*n about you. You are the tradesman at their backdoor, useful but 'not one of their kind' - and while they deceive you to get your vote, they are laughing at you.

Posted by: eabpmn | October 16, 2008 7:13 PM

Note from Obama campaign HQ: We need to destroy this Joe guy ASAP because it looks like he might oppose us. Our media affiliates have already dug up some dirt on him, but we need to make sure that we smear him real good. Anyway who stands in our way must be eliminated. This is the only way that we can implement "Change we can believe in." Remember, Obama can't "improve our standing in the world" if he is not President, so any tactic is justified in this quest for power. After the election, we will have to shut down Fox News and talk radio because they oppose our vision of Marxist utopia. Don't get us wrong, we strongly believe in the 1st Amendment, but we will have to suspend it for awhile in order to do good for the world. Go get'em !!!

Posted by: davec701 | October 16, 2008 7:12 PM

Thank you, Joe! Way to go!@

Posted by: dollyq | October 16, 2008 7:04 PM

AYERS, REZKO, ACORN, THESE ARE SOME OF MY FAVORITE FRIENDS...SAID HUSSEIN.

EMPTY SUIT WENT SPEECHLESS LAST NIGHT.

HE GOT A BEATING FROM THE OLD GUY.

A LOT OF NOTHINGNESS, GENERALITIES, THAT'S ALL THE MESSIAH GAVE TO THE ECSTATIC OBAMABOTS.

DON'T FORGET: YOU'VE 90 DAYS TO PAY YOUR MORTGAGE, OR THE MESSIAH WILL KICK YOU OUT OF YOUR HOUSE.

Posted by: coqui44 | October 16, 2008 7:03 PM

REZKO ANYONE??

REZKO REZKO

HUSSEIN HUSSEIN

MESSIAH MESSIAH

NO DONATIONS TO THE POOR FROM THE MESSIAH

PALESTINIAN DONATIONS ANYONE??

90 DAYS TO PAY MORTGAGE OR YOU'RE OUT, COURTESY OF THE MESSIAH.

BIRTH CERTIFICATE, ANYONE??

POOR GRANDMA LIVING WITH THE CHICKENS IN AFRICA, ANYONE?

NO RECORDS OF ANYTHING FROM THE EMPTY SUIT, ANYONE?

Posted by: coqui44 | October 16, 2008 6:59 PM

Dear fellow Obamanazis

Joe Plumber clearly is a McCain plant that, like Exxon and Haliburton, clearly represents the oppressive "Big Plumbing."

Karl Rove has been known to have plumbers to his house on several occassions, clearly showing the destructive and negative tactics the Plumbers will stoop too.

We must destroy him and any other proletariet who questions our dear Obama.

Posted by: pgr88 | October 16, 2008 6:54 PM

I think Jimi Hendrix said it best:

Hey Joe, said now
Where you gonna run to now?
Where you gonna run to?
Hey Joe, I said where you gonna run to now?
Where you, where you gonna go?
Well, dig it

I'm goin' way down south,
Way down to Mexico way
Alright!
I'm goin' way down south,
Way down where I can be free
Ain't no one gonna find me

And Joe ... take John McCain with you!

Posted by: haymarketbill | October 16, 2008 6:54 PM

Joe the Plumber is a Republican, tax evading plant with ties to the Keating Family:

http://liesliesmorelies.blogspot.com/2008/10/joe-plumber-tax-cheat.html

Posted by: Snakeheader | October 16, 2008 6:50 PM

Liberals love to ignore things. Did any of you pay attention to Obama's response? He wants to take more money away from ANYONE who makes $250,000 and "spread the wealth". Who cares if Joe is a plumber or not. Obama is a Marxist. But that's probably what most of you like about him.

Posted by: jmd4883 | October 16, 2008 2:19 PM
---------------------
Taking $700 billion+ of taxpayer money and handing it to investment firms sounds like a pretty Marxist idea to me. The governement's buying ownership stakes in firms also sounds Marxist. And yet these plans were introduced by Bush. Why?

Posted by: smc91 | October 16, 2008 6:47 PM

.
.
.
"Hey Joe, they're coming after you, last week it was Joe Six_Pack, this week it's Joe the Plumber, next week it could be you Joe."
.
.
.

Posted by: Kimmo1 | October 16, 2008 6:38 PM

.
.
.
"WHAT'S UP JOE?"
.
.
.

Posted by: Kimmo1 | October 16, 2008 6:31 PM

.
.
.
"Joe, you left the toilet seat up again!"
.
.
.

Posted by: Kimmo1 | October 16, 2008 6:28 PM

Will somebody tell Joe the plumber that he needs to pay his taxes before he can get 250,000 for his business. He's starting off on the wrong foot.

Posted by: MILLER123 | October 16, 2008 6:28 PM

I love it. Joe the Plumber isn't a plumber, and owes back taxes to Ohio. Did McCain use the same team that "vetted" Palin to vet Joe?

Posted by: smc91 | October 16, 2008 6:24 PM

__________________________________o

__________________________________o


My name is not Joe!


__________________________________o

Posted by: Kimmo1 | October 16, 2008 6:21 PM

O
O
OO
O
OO
O JOE FIX IT!

Posted by: Kimmo1 | October 16, 2008 6:18 PM

Good for him, I suppose, voting on principle like that. But fact is, he'd get something like a $1,300 tax reduction under Obama's plan, and maybe $300-500 under McCain's. That's a thousand extra dollars to save towards capital for his business.

And when he has his business, Obama's plan won't raise his taxes unless his personal income exceeds $250,000, and only barely.

In other words, his income would be $200,000 more than he makes now, and his taxes would roughly unchanged than someone at that level currently. Look at this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html

Now here's the kicker: he has a family and under Obama's health care plan, JtP's healthcare costs could be significantly less than what they are now. Easily more than $300-500 a year in savings.

I'd say that if Joe the plumber pulls out that calculator and ultimately decides to vote his pocketbook, he'll have to vote Obama.

Posted by: ChrisDC | October 16, 2008 6:17 PM

So is it elitist of me to say that poor people in the US deserve their poverty? After all, they're gonna vote for McCain right, who will not lower their taxes; Obama will. But apparently to cut taxes on people earning less than 250K a year is 'socialism'. Now, latest polls in Manhattan - where medium income is in the 300K region - has Obama up by 82%. So the people who WILL pay more taxes under Obama will vote for Obama - and those who will pay LESS taxes under Obama will not vote for him.

Something is deeply wrong with this: by God, it's just plain un-American to WANT to pay higher taxes, but it seems as if all Americans are united on this - rich or poor, they INSIST on voting for whoever will raise their taxes.

Go figure - everyone must be rich, then?

Posted by: alex111 | October 16, 2008 6:13 PM


(((((((((O)))))))))

Hey! hey! how many Joes are there?

Posted by: Kimmo1 | October 16, 2008 6:12 PM

You know who else is not paying taxes on income, Sarah Palin. She owes and the IRS is not doing their job and the media is not looking into the matter. Forget the ethics part but if per diem pay is not income that doesn't need to be reported to the IRS than I know many Americans who are due a refund immediately and that includes me.

Posted by: MILLER123 | October 16, 2008 6:11 PM

Posted by: fblevens | October 16, 2008 6:03 PM

___________________________

Relax, fblevens. Same team. I was being facetious.

I'm finally feeling comfortable enough about this election that I can enjoy toying with the little conservative trolls.

Posted by: swalker3 | October 16, 2008 6:07 PM

Since when does a person need to be a licensed plumber to buy or own a plumbing company? Who cares what his current tax return is? He sounds concerned what it will look like if he completes purchase of this company.

Posted by: amigabill | October 16, 2008 6:07 PM


McCain is an utter phone. He starts out calling him by the wrong name. Then he keeps repeating "Joe," until suddenly it's "my friend, Joe." Now it turns out that McCain's new hero isn't a licensed plumber, would not be affected one iota by Obama's plan and doesn't pay his taxes.

Posted by: monk4hall | October 16, 2008 6:05 PM

I know one skin head cop who won't be in uniform the next time he introduces Palin.

Posted by: MILLER123 | October 16, 2008 6:04 PM

turns out his father is the son in law of charles keating robert wurzelbacher jr.
his dad robert wurzelbacher sr served 40 nmonths prison time for involvement in the lincoln savings and loan scandel as president of american savings the parent company of lincoln savings and loan.
seems he stole 13 million dollars.
also joe earned himself a speeding ticket in alaska where there is a doug wurzelbacher who lived in yep WASILLA alaska...now out of chilcoot in CA.
too many coincedences there more robert wurzelbacher is a major republican donor.
wonder where joe learned that sammy davis jr. crack look no further than an older family member since joe is only 33.
no wonder joe spouts all the right wing talking points like an auctioneer.

Posted by: JudgeAlan | October 16, 2008 6:04 PM

Hey, did anyone else hear that Obama's middle name is Hussein?

Posted by: swalker3 | October 16, 2008 5:42 PM

I am a patriot because I'm proud that I live in a country founded on the tenet that anyone can succeed, even be president, regardless of their name, color, ethnicity, religion, gender or sexual preference.

To a true patriot, then, the only thing more insulting than the inference that Obama is Muslim (or Arab) is the idea that no qualified Muslim (or Arab) could become president.

Get a clue as to what it means to be an American.

Posted by: fblevens | October 16, 2008 6:03 PM

Tell me it ain't so Joe!

Posted by: Kimmo1 | October 16, 2008 6:03 PM

Joe the Plumber is not about to buy a company that clears a quarter mill a year. He's a b.s. artist. This shows you how bad McCain will be as president. He's making everyone believe the guy is an actual representation of a serious small businessman. Joe should get a license, serve an apprenticeship and become a Union plumber. It's the Unions that make the working class strong. Union plumbers make good salaries with excellent bennies. And all the construction trade unions have endored Obama. Joe will just be another low paying, no benefit worker, if the Republicans keep in power.

Posted by: kathy71 | October 16, 2008 6:02 PM


McCain is such a phony. This whole "joe the plumber" thing was idiotic, and it shows in the polling of who won the debate.

Posted by: monk4hall | October 16, 2008 6:02 PM

townerc001,

That American dream won't be available for long if everyone cheated on income taxes like Joe Wurzelbacher.

I can also tell you that most legit plumbers have over-head for things like insurance and license fees.

If you have people like Joe undercutting licensed professionals, it's going to kill wages and the trade as well.

Joe is the embodiment of every argument that wingnuts use about illegal immigrants driving down the wages of people who live here and play by the rules.

The American dream is dying because people like Joe cheat, and then vote in even bigger cheaters who screw those of us who actually play by the rules.

Under Bush-McCain Republicans the game has been fixed against the middle class and working families.

That needs to change fast, or there will be no "American Dream" for the next generation.

Posted by: JPRS | October 16, 2008 6:02 PM

Mr. Barnes,

Any time a wedge develops that could damage the media's anointed one, or that could reveal to the voting public that the would-be emperor has no clothes, then the media turns to what it does best - trying to smear and destroy the messenger.

Joe is not required to have a license to hold his current job with his plumbing company.

And you don't know any facts about his tax lien or the circumstances, and again, it's none of the media's or anyone else's business. Again, It's a sleazy media that sought in vain to discredit him.

It's nobody's business what his birth name is. My regional manager went by a completely different first name that his given name.

Again, the media can't handle scrutiny of their anointed one.

Along comes this guy who's situation represents the human consequences of high-brow liberalism, socialism, redistributionism, and class envy, and the media's first impulse of course is to head to the courthouse looking for dirt.

Let's see - "You are attacking the messenger!" - from whom have we heard that cry and defense before?

Ironic, huh?

Posted by: votewithyourfeet | October 16, 2008 5:59 PM

Hey, coqui44: Is 44 your IQ? Two major newspapers are reporting the facts about Joe. I don't think it took more than a few hours to find out the what a fraud Joe is.

Joe has made McCain look like a complete idio with his 20+ references to Joe the Plumnber last night. McCain is trying to protect someone who owes the state of Ohio income tax.

Do you really want someone that stupid trying to fix the financial crisis?

The last time I checked it was Bush who was 'asleep at the wheel' while the financial crisis was occurring, and made the bailout proposal.

Posted by: MyVoteDoesNotCountInAlabama | October 16, 2008 5:56 PM

So whats the big deal, Barnes, you are not a journalist and you're still writing. Go, Joe!

Posted by: dollyq | October 16, 2008 5:54 PM

Relax, I was being fecatious. It cracks me up they way that these sad little conservative insist on emphasizing Obama's middle name over and over again. Like we're all supposed to suddenly wake up and go "Huh? What? Who? Are you kidding me!?!"

Posted by: swalker3 | October 16, 2008 5:54 PM

I MIGHT SPEND $250,000 on a business.

OOPS, can't-- my money went to the IRAQ "WAR"

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 16, 2008 5:52 PM

I MIGHT SPEND $250,000 on a business.

OOPS, can't-- my money went to bailout UNREGULATED WALL ST

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 16, 2008 5:51 PM


Hey, did anyone else hear that Obama's middle name is Hussein?

Posted by: swalker3 | October 16, 2008 5:42 PM

Heard that. Also heard that McCain's is Sydney.

Your point?

Posted by: fblevens | October 16, 2008 5:49 PM

Obama is Christian with a Muslim middle name

SO WHAT?

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 16, 2008 5:49 PM

Dear Robert Barnes, I find you very unbelievable.

1. JOE may not be the licensed plumber, but that does not disqualify him to be a voter or ask a tax-related question.
2. He asked the question FOR hundreds of thousands of small business owners across the country. We get the answers. Thanks Joe.
3. He did not represent any group/party or subgroup, except he has a question that he needs the answer. Nice to point the fingers, scums.

4. Why the crooks have to set up to discredit him just because he asked a simple question? Millions of Americans learned about Obama's tax plan yesterday or is it supposed to be concealed from the laymen?

5. JOE has a an American dream, that is what this country is about. You work hard and you build your dream. One day he may have his business. What is wrong? It does not mean he won't get a license and won't have a business.

I am shameful of what the Americans have become. What kind of journalism/spirit has Mr. Barnes displayed? Read the comments and tell me there are respectable people around.

Posted by: townerc001 | October 16, 2008 5:49 PM

swalker3 spewed : ...Obama's middle name is Hussein

So? Tell me what the F is wrong with that, you un-American bigot.

You are to the Muslim people what Hilter was to the Jews.

I can't wait till your ilk goes EXTINCT!

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 16, 2008 5:48 PM

What's with Joe's complaint about having a truck that's "a couple of years old" and having it for the next 10 years? Boo hoo. Why should anyone be entitled to a new truck every couple of years? My car's 6 years old and I plan on driving it for the next 10 years. I think that I make a decent living and I pay my taxes and I'm not complaining about driving my car for the next 10 years.

Posted by: Greening | October 16, 2008 5:47 PM

RGovtal,

You said: "It truly is astounding how fast the Leftists in this country attack a normal guy who is really simply speaking for the middle class."

Who the Hell anointed Joe Wurlzebacher as the spokesman for America's "middle class"?

Most middle class folks pay our taxes. Plumbers get their licenses and pay insurance -- they play by the rules (unlike this Wurzelbacher guy who sounds like a cheat).

The only people anointing Wurzelbacher as a middle class spokesman, are some disgustingly rich Republican political operatives.

If Wurzelbacher wants to turn tricks for Bush Republicans -- that's his choice.

But I think many of us are smart enough to realize that no political party in recent history has done more to undermine the economic security of the middle class and middle class families than the Bush-McCain Republicans.

Posted by: JPRS | October 16, 2008 5:47 PM

I posted this earlier this morning.

Plumber Joe had better watch out. As with anything McCain touches it could backfire.I would like to see Joe the Plumber open his books to IRS.

Turns out this afternoon that Joe the Plumber doesn't have an Ohio Plumber's license. Now say it ain't so Joe is shying away from the media. Keep on Joe and the IRS will find out that you owe more taxes than you owe now. Time to be quiet joe.

Posted by: MILLER123 | October 16, 2008 5:44 PM

Hey, did anyone else hear that Obama's middle name is Hussein?

Posted by: swalker3 | October 16, 2008 5:42 PM

An unqualified Tax dodger supporting McCain.....how unusual!!?
It's the American Dream to get rich and not pay taxes...go Joe...your halfway there buddy....there's a stuffed up drain on Wall Street that needs your attention

Posted by: aussiebones | October 16, 2008 5:40 PM

Marxism? Really, what is the definition of Marxism.

When did paying taxes become unpatriotic? This entitlement generation with is living a myth.

The government just does not print money. Oh wait, it does now! Add another $800B to the till.

What do you think will happen with the valuation of the currency if we keep on printing.

It' becomes paper.

Posted by: frankinbend | October 16, 2008 5:32 PM

RGovtal
I think it's you who needs to move to another country: Frankly, I'm pretty tired of paying for whatever welfare state you hail from, and bailing out Joe the unlicensed, tax-dodging trainee Plumber ... seriously, your America is not my America - we tried your America for 8 years, and it sucks - seriously, it does. Not that you would know since you probably don't have a 401K and are hoping I'm going to look after you in your old age - but of course social security is socialism, right? Except when miscreants like our buddy Joe the not-quite Plumber needs to be bailed out from paying his personal taxes ... you know what, if you want to live in a backward christian country, I suggest YOU move out of America - really, times are a-changing, your idiotic president is done (having started three wars and won zero, and having administered the greatest economic disaster in our lifetimes), and your asinine old man who you hope will live long enough to install your next great white (trash) hope Palin in the white house is too thick to clinch the deal, even while running against that completely un-american black muslim terrorist.

I'll tell you what - I'll even PAY for you to leave my America!

Posted by: alex111 | October 16, 2008 5:30 PM

Hmm ..

I actually feel for this guy. Stay out of the press limelight!

No license and a lien on taxes. This is not my average Joe.

There are two nations .. those that live behind the appearance of facts and truths and those that lead honest lives.

Guess where Palin, Joe and McCain fit in?

Posted by: frankinbend | October 16, 2008 5:30 PM

...You are trying to make our country into Canada or Cuba. Go live your utopian dream elsewhere. Marxism does not work and will only dumb down the entire society...then again, perhaps that is what you desire.

Posted by: RGovtal | October 16, 2008 5:18 PM
*****************

Is that a fact? I see no evidence of that: I see Obama trying to lead us toward a more egalitarian future that actually bears a striking resemblence to the '90s, at least economically.

Would you let us in on the grandiose vision you have for America's future? Does it in any way resemble what we've lived through for the past eight years? Might you, like McCain, not have a plan? How about if, in that case, you catch the next bus to Canada, friend.

Posted by: abqcleve | October 16, 2008 5:30 PM

Joe sounds more like the plumber's helper.

He'll need that license before he buys the business.

I'm surprised that he hasn't applied given that he has the tax thing all figured out.

Sounds like he's blowing smoke....

Posted by: protagoras | October 16, 2008 5:28 PM

Okay, 15 minutes of fame is up Joe the Republican Tax Dodger.

Why are we always hearing about "Joe" anyway from the media this year (Joe six pack, regular Joe, plumber Joe)? I'd like some coverage of Mary, whose 'health issues' are scoffed at by McCain; or Khalid, whose Arab American heritage is constantly maligned by the GOP to ratchet up fear an division; or Maria, who has good grades but can't afford college; or Malcolm, who hasn't had a real raise in 3 years; or Tex, who is still waiting for some help from Hurricane Ike; or Mike, who is on his third tour of duty for Iraq.

I'm tired of Joe's self-centeredness and self-righteous attidue - time for some other folks to have the media narrative for a change.

Posted by: jak2 | October 16, 2008 5:25 PM

This really is unbelievable.

If McCain wants to stunt his way into the White House, he needs to hire someone who knows how to do these stunts properly.

If he can't figure out how to do these things, how's he going to figure out the banking crisis?

What a train wreck.

Posted by: fblevens | October 16, 2008 5:24 PM

The Hussein Truth Squad hits again.

They dug the dirt on this guy and probably the poor sob will be prosecuted for tax evasion.

Meanwhile, Hussein keeps helping the Wall Street vultures, advocating for them, giving them trillions of your dollars.

Hussein agreed with the vultures that homeowners should only get 90 days to find a new home if they don't want to end up in the streets.

Hussein the magnanimous.

Posted by: coqui44 | October 16, 2008 5:22 PM

Joe is the perfect McCain voter. Ignorant of the real issues, lazy to read about what Obama is really proposing and that Joe's taxes would go down with Obama and the rich folk's taxes go down under McCain, and intellectually incurious. And he misprepesente his situation when talking to Obama -- he's nowhere near buying a business. He's predisposed to vote Republican, regardless of the fact that they've driven this nation into the ditch. Joe, I don't care if you're undecided even now. Just don't vote. Go back to replacing faucet washers, and by the way, pay your taxes, will ya?

Posted by: ursadog | October 16, 2008 5:21 PM

I disagree with Joe, that he doesn't see how Obama is more for middle and lower classes, than McCain is. McCain is his guy, and great for him.

Now, if we can just maintain or build on our stats for the remainder of these weeks, surely we'll begin to get some action we've been deprived of for years as of recent. We must get it right this time. If it works out the way I imagine, Joe will see benefits regardless of his favor of McCain as well :) Good luck Joe.

Posted by: Obama2008 | October 16, 2008 5:20 PM

It truly is astounding how fast the Leftists in this country attack a normal guy who is really simply speaking for the middle class. That vast majority of those who have negatively commented and bashed this guy probably don't care about the things spouted in Obama's church, his friendship with an unrepentant native terrorist or his connection to Tony Rezko. It would seem that you all are more interested in tearing down individuals with whom you disagree in your thirst for power. And if you hate America so darn much, why don't you just move to another country?!?! Just leave. No one is stopping you. You are trying to make our country into Canada or Cuba. Go live your utopian dream elsewhere. Marxism does not work and will only dumb down the entire society...then again, perhaps that is what you desire.

Posted by: RGovtal | October 16, 2008 5:18 PM


Does John McCain ever do his homework?

Posted by: CuckooRaja | October 16, 2008 5:18 PM

So is it elitist of me to say that poor people in the US deserve their poverty? After all, they're gonna vote for McCain right, who will not lower their taxes; Obama will. But apparently to cut taxes on people earning less than 250K a year is 'socialism'. Now, latest polls in Manhattan - where medium income is in the 300K region - has Obama up by 82%. So the people who WILL pay more taxes under Obama will vote for Obama - and those who will pay LESS taxes under Obama will not vote for him.

Something is deeply wrong with this: by God, it's just plain un-American to WANT to pay higher taxes, but it seems as if all Americans are united on this - rich or poor, they INSIST on voting for whoever will raise their taxes.

Go figure - everyone must be rich, then?

Posted by: alex111 | October 16, 2008 5:18 PM

and gettyleigh, quit bespoiling the otherwise good name of Rush's most excellent bass player.

BTW, that's Rush the Canadian power trio, not Rush the uninformed fat oxycontin addict.

Posted by: lpm123 | October 16, 2008 5:13 PM

Geez... John McCain's big mouth is gonna cost this guy his job and his house and he's still gonna vote for him.

Posted by: DonRitchie | October 16, 2008 5:13 PM


I think the example of Joe the Plumber explains Republican tax policy exactly. They don't tax the rich because the rich would notice. They tax folks like Joe because he's too dumb to notice that they're raising his taxes.

Posted by: jt12 | October 16, 2008 5:13 PM

...and for the masses, it is not uncopmmon for a retiring plumber to sell his business to those working for him, and then let them pay him a specified amount until its paid off.

Posted by: gettyleigh |
*********************

Ha! You're working way too hard to defend this one, buddy. The vast majority of Americans posting here give me some hope: they recognize a shameless, embarrassing pander by Joe and John. Joe ain't buyin' no business anytime soon. I'd just walk away to fight another day if I were you.....

Posted by: abqcleve | October 16, 2008 5:10 PM

As usual, McBush makes a complete IDIOT of himself. What a moron. I cannot believe ANYONE with a SINGLE ounce of common sense would seriously be considering them!

Jiff
www.privacy-tools.at.tc

Posted by: clermontpc | October 16, 2008 5:09 PM

Joe is the perfect poster boy for the Republican Party. He misrepresents himself, he can't manage his own finances properly, is happy to accept government services - including those provided by the troops now fighting two wars - but doesn't pay the full amount of his tax bill, and in a country that just effectively nationalized several banks and an insurance company, thinks that progressive tax rates constitute "socialism."

In other words, he's a liar, a cheat, an ingrate, and an ignoramus. Perfect!

Posted by: Bob22003 | October 16, 2008 5:08 PM

So. Joe the Plumber turns out to be Sam the Schnook. A tax dodger. Who didn't do the most rudimentary homework before asking his tax question - about a potentially illegitimate business, no less. A whiner who complains about the spotlight AFTER calling a press conference. And a bigot.

And this guy wants his own business?

Posted by: djackson1 | October 16, 2008 5:07 PM

gettyleigh, quoting me, said:
Joe the Plumber was used/allowed himself to be used to misrepresent Obama's tax plan. Worse, Joe misrepresented himself. Even worse, the McCain campaign revealed its hypocrisy in trying to be in the corner of "everyman."

Do you honestly believe that the McCain campaign called him up and asked if they could take this incident and run with it? And do you believe that McCain really has not been doing right by his constituency? After all he has been re-elected over a 26 year period; if he was neglecting them they would have voted him out . . . one would think.
*********************

I don't know what to think about the level to which the McCain camp went to enlist Joe, though others here, not me, have pointed out some things like Joe admitting on GMA that the McCain camp had contacted him.

My point was Joe made his choices, knowing full well that he was lying, and the McCain camp chose during the debate to make an "star" out of him, in an obvious, craven attempt to pander to middle America.

But they all lied, got their facts wrong, misrepresented Obama's plan, and have egg on their faces to show for it.

More McCain campaign embarrassing mismanagement, which was my stated point: worst campaign ever, in history.

Posted by: abqcleve | October 16, 2008 5:06 PM

McCain really looks stupid (again). How could his campaign not check this out better?

Posted by: MyVoteDoesNotCountInAlabama | October 16, 2008 5:05 PM

A BRAINWASHED, DUMB REPUGLICAN KID IN A BASEMENT OF FALWELL UNIVERSITY PASTED THIS FROM THE TEXT FILE ONE OF ROVE'S STOOGES PUT IN FRONT OF HIM:

==============
You are more concerned about if the guy is regulated than you are if Obama steals from him and gives to an unproductive
miscreant.
==============

HEY:
I AM NOT A "MISCREANT". I WAS A RESPECTED COMPUTER ENGINEER WITH DOJ RIGHT UP UNTIL BUSH STOLE THE ELECTION THE FIRST TIME.

SEE, REPUGLYCANS DON'T LIKE ANTITRUST BECAUSE KEEPS BILLIONAIRES LIKE BILL GATES FROM STRONGARMING THE REST OF US INTO GIVING HIM ALL OUR MONEY.

THE *DO*, HOWEVER, LIKE READING EVERYONE'S EMAIL AND RECORDING ALL OUR PHONE CALLS, SO THEY GAVE THE MONEY TO THE "DEPARTMENT FOR DEFENSE OF THE FATHERLAND" INSTEAD, AND MY JOB WAS ELIMINATED EVEN THOUGH I WON AWARDS THERE.

SO AFTER DESTROYING MY LIFE AND PUTTING ME ON THE STREET (EVEN GOOD PEOPLE CAN'T FIND JOBS IN A REPUGLICAN-CONTROLLED ECONOMY), NOW THEY HAVE THE ARROGANCE TO CALL ME AN UNDESERVING, UNPRODUCTIVE MISCREANT.

I HOPE THESE BÂSTARDS ALL DIE AND GO TO *HELL*.

MORE ABOUT THIS AT:
http://blog.myspace.com/fayekane

-- faye kane, homeless brain

Posted by: FayeKane_HomelessSmartypants | October 16, 2008 5:01 PM

Posted by: jaiderbertoli | October 16, 2008 5:00 PM

Okay...I'm in love with "halifax1" -- who has an educated understanding of what's at stake in this election! Puleeze, Americans, inform yourselves so you can vote intelligently! To vote from your uneducated prejudices certainly doesn't make a better America...it will only actualize that painfully trite phrase that has plagued this presidential race: "more of the same". I know I don't want that.

Open your eyes...think with your brain...vote for a better America.

Joe the plumber spoke uninformedly and is now paying the consequences of his willful lack of knowledge -- in a country that has FREE compulsory education -- during which he apparently spent his time with his head buried firmly in the sand, or floating in the quanta of his most grandiose fantasies.

But...America is a land of opportunity...and even Joe will bounce back from his most embarrassing moment, just as George W. will one day rise above the label as the worst president in U.S. history.

Get it together, folks.

Posted by: gymfreak62 | October 16, 2008 4:59 PM

So he's not a plumber - he's a plumber's helper. Hee hee hee.

"I'm not the plumber or the plumber's son,
But I'll fix your leak til the plumber comes ... "

Hey, people, it's all cool. Let's lighten up here. We'll straighten this guy out, and drive on. Everything is going to be all right. We all gotta chill on out, pull together, get this show back on the road. Let's try to be good to each other here. America is going to be okay. O-bama-kay.

Posted by: pressF1 | October 16, 2008 4:56 PM

Oh man, you'd think after not vetting Sarah Palin that the McCain camp would have done a few minutes of homework and found this out before trotting it out during the debate. Instead of "McCain Back on the Attack" tonight's headlines will be "Once Again, McCain Opens Mouth Before Checking the Facts." Nice work, Rick Davis and Steve Schmidt -- you're as hapless on the Republican side as Chris Lehane is for Democrats (and to Obama's credit his campaign wouldn't touch that reverse-Midas loser with a ten foot pole).

Yep, he'll make a doggone heckuva president, you betcha!

Posted by: lpm123 | October 16, 2008 4:54 PM

Not licensed, tax delinquent and ignorant to boot. McCain/Palin's type of voter.

Posted by: tydicea |
--------------------------
Yeap, a typical Republican.

Posted by: Classic60 | October 16, 2008 4:53 PM

Maybe McCain should check to see if his pilot has a pilot's license.

Posted by: ThePhotogsBlog | October 16, 2008 4:53 PM

Not licensed, tax delinquent and ignorant to boot. McCain/Palin's type of voter.

Posted by: tydicea | October 16, 2008 4:52 PM

I pity the fool who let's the politicians use him as a pawn in their sleazy games of tit for tat.
Poor Joe, yo. You asked for it, though.

Posted by: TheGnome | October 16, 2008 4:51 PM

I wouldn't worry about it, Joe. Even if you don't have a plumbing license, you could still get a job as the new Mr. Clean.

Posted by: ComfortablyDumb | October 16, 2008 4:51 PM

Gettyleigh Said: saying you know someone is not a plumber because ytou know a plumber has got to be the dumbest argument spouted on this column yet
-------------------
That is not as dumb as that idiot beauty queen saying she can see Russia from Alaska.

Wanna bet that if McLame gets in that Joe will have a cabinet position. He probably is as qualifed to hold one as much as Palin Sweetie.

Posted by: Classic60 | October 16, 2008 4:49 PM

the ignorance espoused here is unbelievable!

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 4:48 PM

LeftwithNochoice . . . tell me mr knowledge . . . wwhat cross sectional area is necessary to the venting of a building where the building drain is 4" in diameter . saying you know someone is not a plumber because ytou know a plumber has got to be the dumbest argument spouted on this column yet. even if the guy just got into the trade and knew very little he is still an apprentice plumber . . . and for the masses, it is not uncopmmon for a retiring plumber to sell his business to those working for him, and then let them pay him a specified amount until its paid off

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 4:45 PM

"Joe" is another sad example of how Americans of modest means habitually seem to vote against their own interests. "You too can be rich" say the scam artists and the working stiffs swallow it hook, line and sinker.

The truth, of course, is that "Joe" and the tens of millions like him stand to gain far more and more quickly from Obama's economic plan which clearly emphasizes direct relief for the middle class over McCain's muddled "more of the same" indirect trickle down proposals which never seem to make it to people of Joe's station.

In point of fact, "Joe" in not likely to advance beyond the middle class anytime in his lifetime and his current footing in it is already mightily threatened by the very policies he seems to want to support and continue over the next four years.

Apparently, "Joe" isn't very smart. And given his reported remark comparing Obama's answers to Sammy Davis Jr.'s dancing, his shortcomings may not just be limited to his understanding of basic economics.

I suspect that "Joe" is going to wind up hoping that his fifteen minutes is up very soon.

Posted by: halifax1 | October 16, 2008 4:44 PM

This is yet another example of John McCain and his campaign staffers not doing their homework. They didn't vet Palin thoroughly and now Joe the Plumber has bitten them. Perhaps Senator McCain should suspend his campaign and search for a licensed plumber.

Posted by: spotfoul
-------------------------------------------
John McLame should quit now and become a licensed plumber, if he could pass the test and he can make Missy Palin his helper. "Pass me the wrench, sweetie"

Posted by: Classic60 | October 16, 2008 4:42 PM

Am I the only one who thinks Joe was a GOP plant?

Posted by: OHREALLYNOW | October 16, 2008 4:41 PM

just hope I'm not making too much of a fool of mysel

Sorry Joe, but you're soon going to be called Joe the Horse's Rear. First you gave someone the impression you made 250k as a plumber and would pay more taxes under Obama, but you don't and wouldnt. Second you make silly remarks about "socialism." Third you know nothing about what a flat tax would actually do -- raise most peoples taxes --- and you apparently know squat about the concentation of wealth in this country. Finally you coyly pretend it isnt obvious you're just one more dumb right wing Republican.

Posted by: davidscott1 | October 16, 2008 4:41 PM

Pgr88, you're a wonderful person an' all and I gotta say, pink suits you, but listen, Nazis are Fascists and Proletarians (that's the big boy word for Proles) are actually Communists, sorta. Now Fascists are your right wing types and Communists are your left wing ones. You GOTTA get that right or you won't get that diploma come the summer! Now Obama can either be a Nazi OR a Communist but not both okay? That's just silly. You might also want to be a bit more careful using the word 'brother' when there is a reference to Obama - it's a touchy subject for some people you understand. Now go play with your toys.

Posted by: spanielmcnugget | October 16, 2008 4:40 PM

Worrying about transfer of wealth? The last 8 years have been the biggest transfer of wealth in our nation's history, but it is not what you think: The transfer has occurred from the poor and middle class to the wealthy. Just ask yourself where those 100s of billions of tax dollars (and loans) for the war go -- to weapons manufacturers (primarily the CEOs of those companies), big oil benefitting from the continual war, etc. And who has had tax cuts? The wealthiest of Americans. Thus, and this is the case in many of our tax monies, the low and middle classes are seeing their wealth transfered to those who need it the least.

And we see it happening again on a grand scale with the financial bailout of $700 billion.

Posted by: drkvc | October 16, 2008 4:39 PM

Joe the Plumber was used/allowed himself to be used to misrepresent Obama's tax plan. Worse, Joe misrepresented himself. Even worse, the McCain campaign revealed its hypocrisy in trying to be in the corner of "everyman."

Do you honestly believe that the McCain campaign called him up and asked if they could take this incident and run with it? And do you believe that McCain really has not been doing right by his constituency? After all he has been re-elected over a 26 year period; if he was neglecting them they would have voted him out . . . one would think. How exactly did Joe misrepresent himself? Did he come out and say he had 250k in his pocket? I wonder what they call plumbers in Pennsylvania, since they are not required to be licensed. Non-licensed plumbers? Your argument holds no water . . . did anyone bother to even see if Joe is registered in an apprenticeship program? The fact is it does not matter, because if you show up with letters signed by master plumbers that state you have enough time in the trade to take the journeyman’s test, you can take the test. This is much ado about nothing. Some people talk about events, some people talk about other people, and some people talk about ideas . . . which are you?


Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 4:38 PM

Did anyone notice that this morning on ABC's Good Morning, Joe said that the Mcain campaign asked him to show up?

Posted by: wondering5 | October 16, 2008 4:37 PM

Joe - I know plumbers. I worked with plumbers for years. Joe... You're no Plumber.

He just hopes he can "get his message out there?"

What message would that be? Obama is Black, maybe? He said he's not gonna raise your taxes, Liar, but you say he will... That he wont "Help You."

Help yourself, Joe. Read a Book. Pay your Taxes. Shut Up. Stop Lying.

Independent?

NOT!

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | October 16, 2008 4:36 PM

It appears that Mr. Wurzelbacher is being vetted more than Gov. Palin.

Posted by: Heather6 | October 16, 2008 4:35 PM

Your analysis is completely wrong, Gettyleigh.

"Joe the unlicensed Plumber" is endemic to the Republican base--a citizen who sees themselves not as they are but how they wish they were. If not for millions of these ill-equipped and uneducated dreamers, the Republican party would be hard-pressed to capture 10% of the vote in any race they contested. Who in their right mind votes against their own (and society's) best interests?

You at least seem to be somewhat educated. Perhaps you can add to that knowledge by spending a few hours reading "Myth of the Machine" and "Pentagon of Power", both written by Lewis Mumford. For the life of me, I'll never understand how someone, like yourself, prefers to be an obedient slave to a group of people that couldn't give a flying fig about your own well-being.

Posted by: eff-o-dee | October 16, 2008 4:34 PM

Obama Nazis heard that there is a Prole out there who doesn't like Big Brother - so they must destroy him!

Posted by: pgr88 | October 16, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse
__________________________________________

Not a partisan issue. Joe Plumber called a press conference, himself, at his home this morning.

He is a tax dodger. Are you? Do you pay taxes? How do you like the idea of having to pay for services like the police, ambulance, clean water, and Joe Plumber ditches his fair share of those expenses.

If you support tax dodgers, you are as anti-American as he.

Nobody deserves a free ride in the Republic.

Posted by: concernedaboutdc | October 16, 2008 4:33 PM

Let me get this straight. Joe the Unlicensed Plumber doesn't make anywhere near $250,000 a year, but is worried that if he buys his business and does eventually make that much money, he'll be taxed at a 3% higher rate.

Strangely enough, Mr. Wurzelbacher will have a better opportunity of meeting his fears under an Obama administration, which will cut his taxes now as he builds to his goal.

Posted by: amaikovich | October 16, 2008 4:30 PM

I think Joe the Plumber should join McCain's camp and become his economic advisor if McCain is so fascinated with him. There should be an open spot on the cabinet for Joe six pack also. Rednecks Unite!!

Posted by: ryanr007 | October 16, 2008 4:27 PM

Obama Nazis heard that there is a Prole out there who doesn't like Big Brother - so they must destroy him!

Posted by: pgr88 | October 16, 2008 4:27 PM

From the Toledo Blade:

Mr. Wurzelbacher told reporters Thursday morning that he worked for Newell Plumbing & Heating Co., a small local firm whose business addresses flow back to several residential homes, including one on Talmadge Road in Ottawa Hills.

According to Lucas County Building Inspection records, A. W. Newell Corp. does maintain a state plumbing license, and one with the City of Toledo, but would not be allowed to work in Lucas County outside of Toledo without a county license.

Mr. Wurzelbacher said he works under Al Newell’s license, but according to Ohio building regulations, he must maintain his own license to do plumbing work.

He is also not registered to operate as a plumber in Ohio, which means he’s not a plumber.

-----

Shouldn't this news be in The Trail?

Go read it, WaPo:
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/810160418/-1/NEWS

Posted by: nolakate | October 16, 2008 4:26 PM

"Ok, Joe (can I call ya Joe?)-- can you please identify one thing George Bush or John McCain has ever done or will do to help you out economically?"

Jeez man, give the guy a break, Palin couldn't answer that one!

Posted by: spanielmcnugget | October 16, 2008 4:24 PM

And his message is exactly what? That he doesn't understand Senator Obama's tax break for people like him is obvious. That there are times when people should keep their mouths shut before they embarrass themselves is glaringly apparent through Joe da Plumbuhs public blunder. To quote another character on Joe's low rung in the social hierarchy: "What a maroon!"

Posted by: gymfreak62 | October 16, 2008 4:24 PM

ya know i heard one time joe was short by two cents on buying a can of beer and he has yet to pay that back either . . . i wonder what we'd find in your closet if we started digging around? leave the man be already. you guys are like a pack of rabid dogs.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse
_____________________________________________

Joe Plumber called a press conference at his home this morning. So nobody is BRINGING attention to him, he brought this attention upon himself.

To be fair, it was that dummy McCain that brought him up in the first place before a national audience.

Nonetheless, Joe is a tax dodger. I guess that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. He is not a few pennies short of a can of beer if there is a tax lien against him.

Posted by: concernedaboutdc | October 16, 2008 4:24 PM

Here's the problem with Joe the Plumber, gettyleigh (not that I expect you to respond in a cogent way).

Joe the Plumber was used/allowed himself to be used to misrepresent Obama's tax plan. Worse, Joe misrepresented himself. Even worse, the McCain campaign revealed its hypocrisy in trying to be in the corner of "everyman."

I don't feel too badly for the lumps Joe's taking today: the Faustian bargain that leads to one's 15-minutes of fame always costs. We all know that when we lie in a national forum, the truth will come out; and those that, with his past, agree to do so anyway, have only themselves to blame.

Think Sarah Palin.

Posted by: abqcleve | October 16, 2008 4:23 PM

Ok, Joe (can I call ya Joe?)-- can you please identify one thing George Bush or John McCain has ever done or will do to help you out economically?

Posted by: fmjk | October 16, 2008 4:22 PM

ya know i heard one time joe was short by two cents on buying a can of beer and he has yet to pay that back either . . . i wonder what we'd find in your closet if we started digging around? leave the man be already. you guys are like a pack of rabid dogs.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 4:16 PM

sloppyawn . . . whats your point? and whewre are you taking this? joe is not running for the presidency . . . and there are numerous economists that argue the viability of obamas tax policy . . . by beating joe the plumber up you are only satiating your desire for blood, which indicates your lack of compassion for fellow human beings . . . we arent fighting the nazi's here . . . and after the election we will all still be americans. people like you need to get a life . . . why are you so interested in trashing this guy for asking a question that might be relevant in his future, even if it is not so relevant at the moment?

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 4:12 PM

DIDN'T READ THE PART WHERE JOE OWED BACK TAXES BEFORE I POSTED..BUT PROVES MY POINT..ONLY 2% OF SMALL BUSINESS'S MAKE'S MORE THEN 250,000 DOLLARS..THAT IS YOUR NET YOU PAY YOUR TAX ON..NOT GROSS..I CAN GROSS A MILLION A YEAR,- LESS PAYROLL,GAS.TRUCKS,INSURANCE,MATERIAL AND SO ON..BUT..LARGE FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES DO NOT PAY ANY TAX..AND THE VERY FEW THAT DO PAY LESS THEN 11%..AND WHAT IS MCCAIN TALKING ABOUT 8 YEARS AGO OUR NATIONAL DEBT WAS 5 TRILLION AND A SURPLUS OF 400 BILLION..TODAY OVER 10 TRILLION AND A DEFICET OF 600 BILLION WILL BE 1 TRILLION BEFORE BUSH LEAVES..THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BUSH OR MCCAIN.

Posted by: thailandjames1 | October 16, 2008 4:08 PM

"CynthiaD1 - I hardly think that the American Enterprise Institutes is an unbiased source." The numbers are public knowledge, itsnot hard to support aei's claims

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/#usgs302

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 4:07 PM

And coincidentally, Joe had one of his liens - the one filed by St. Charles Hospital with a monetary amount of $1,261.37 - released exactly one year ago today.

Just sayin', thought this was an interesting nugget of irrelevance, that's all.

Posted by: sloppyawn | October 16, 2008 4:06 PM

Spread the wealth does not work. China tried it with Communism, suppressed their nations for decades. Remember when our parents used to tell us to finish our dinners and remember there are many starving in China? Well, China is now opened up to free market and they are one of the richest nations - this all in less than 20 years. Wonder if the parents in China tell their kids "Finish your dinners, remember there are many starving Americans!"

It doesn't work, it creates lazy people, takes away their ambition. Why work so hard, Uncle SAM will take care of me.

Posted by: candida1 | October 16, 2008 4:04 PM

McCain you are a joke, Fact Check: ‘Joe the plumber’ is not even a licensed plumber you dope! he isn’t even ready to start his own business according to him and if he did he wouldn’t be making or borrowing $250,000.00 and miss on Obama’s tax cuts for every American making under $250,000.00! THIS JOE PLUMBER AND JOE SIXPACK GARBAGE IS A NON FACTOR and 98% of those with small businesses make UNDER $250,000.00 profit anyway! GO TAKE A NAP GRAMPA!! You’re getting confused again! this is all you have? Joe the FAKE plumber? and that other nimwit Palin and her imaginary friend Joe sixpack? the Republicans are hallucinating again! the other guy you can “sit and have a beer with” Joe sixpack! just like Bush! we could sit and have a beer with Bush too, remember? and we see how THAT one turned out! NEXT!!!

Obama / Biden All the Way!!!!!

Posted by: Hillary08 | October 16, 2008 4:01 PM

JPRS,

Very informative information. One thing to add. As you mentioned the GOP uses fear tactics to hide their ineptness when it comes to running the nation's economy. We forget that there have only been 3 democratic Presidents in the last 38 years and one, resided over the best economic expansion in America's history. What have the republican Presidents during this same period resided over? Great post JPRS!

Posted by: ajackson3 | October 16, 2008 4:01 PM

Joe the GOP Plant. If he wasn't a plant, why were did Joe have newspaper photographers in his living room as he watched the debate?

And in 24 hours, Joe has done more interviews than Sarah Palin has done in 6 weeks!

Posted by: dgloo | October 16, 2008 4:00 PM

So McCain's poster child for the debate turns out to be a tax dodger. He wasn't seeking lower taxes he is seeking NO taxes. Well, someone please tap the unlicensed plumber on the shoulder and let him know that we live in a republic where taxes are a fact of life. Not even John McCain can promise him NO taxes.

It is funny when American's wish to pay no taxes, yet expect the police & ambulance to show up, or expect the military to defend their liberties at war. They expect the water authority to ensure that their water is safe to drink. They expect the local health department to continuously monitor threats to community health and nutrition.

I see Joe Plumber as a leachy bum. If I have to pay taxes, so should he.

Does he dodge jury duty too?

Posted by: concernedaboutdc | October 16, 2008 4:00 PM

Some businesses -- even small ones -- have capital gains because they take profits from the business and put that money into investments. Most people are wise enough to keep them separated . . . and capital gains doesn’t generate a sufficient amount of money to fund anything . . . plus there is the one time get out of capital gains free on real estate sales . . .irregardless clinton raised taxes instead of lowering them when he promised he would lower them . . . 39% isn’t a far stretch considering we are at 33%-36% right now . . . I don’t recall stating 39% anyway . . .factually my salary quadrupled under bush . . . it sucked under clinton

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:58 PM

SOMEONE JUST SAID JOE IS NOT EVEN REGISTERED TO VOTE..BESIDES NOT BEING LICENCED..THIS IS GETTING BETTER AND BETTER..NEXT WILL BE JOE OWES BACK TAXES..OR CHILD SUPPORT..THIS JOE PICK IS LOOKING MORE AND MORE LIKE MCCAIN'S PICK OF PALIN..OH..MCCAIN IS A COMPLETE @SS ..WONDER IF WE'LL SEE JOE AT THE MCCAIN RALLIES..THIS IS GREAT

Posted by: thailandjames1 | October 16, 2008 3:53 PM

So Joe the Plumber is Charles Keating's Grandson in law? OMG, the irony is too rich. I'm not convinced he was a plant, but I am sure he's been a McCain supporter from day one. Perhaps rather than contributing $1,000 to the McCain campaign he sould have used that money to pay his taxes. Yet another GOP Tax Cheat. Gotta love it.

Perhaps if the McShame campaign had vetted Joe better they wouldn't have had another Sarah Palin on their hands.

Rather than get a good sound bite or compeling character in the Job the Plumber, their whole stunt has turned into something more ghastly than having to look at hairy Plumber Butt!!

Posted by: VeloStrummer | October 16, 2008 3:51 PM

I hope you are able to to fullfill your dream Joe! OK correct me if I'm wrong here. "small business" owners, after all the write offs that the business has and the money that is left is considered the profit therefor taxable amount. Bear with me, Im trying to make a point here as so many people seem to feel all small business people will ultimately be the victims in Obamas plan. Looking at one quarter million NET PROFIT taxable income is a solid working business. This amount and above puts your business in a larger category and already they have many loopholes in the taxation system. So when Obama puts a magic number of one quarter million or less taxable income, is this really effecting all the "JOE THE PLUMBERS"? The large businesses we have witnessed just keep getting more tax breaks (McCain's plan) and these are the companies that take the money and run. They outsource, move across the border, they find cheap labor elsewhere and keep a high profit margin for themselves. The cuts they receive that are suppose to trickle down to mainstreet do not. We do need incentives to bring these companies back to our soil or penalize those who stay away. A friend of mine started an electrical business and the first two years he had no profits. I do not think the average Joe plumbers have that much to worry about until he becomes big business.

Posted by: jsoelkers | October 16, 2008 3:51 PM

Here's the definition of socialism from freedictionary.com:

so·cial·ism
n.
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

So please tell me what industries does "socialist" Obama plan on nationalizing?

Posted by: CynthiaD1 | October 16, 2008 3:50 PM

This is yet another example of John McCain and his campaign staffers not doing their homework. They didn't vet Palin thoroughly and now Joe the Plumber has bitten them. Perhaps Senator McCain should suspend his campaign and search for a licensed plumber.

how do you all know this guy isnt about to turn out? and getting ready for that big raise? and planning on buying this company with the intent of hiring some people? a good plumber with a service truck can knock down 3200 bucks a week easy . . . its not 250,000, but if your running five service trucks . . . . you could hit 250k easy.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:47 PM

I cannot believe they let Thomas Jefferson insert a socialist phrase like "We the people ... " into OUR constitution. Then, to top it all, they let the framers create a socialist system of decision-making by consensus by allowing us ALL to vote for our President! They could have saved us all so much trouble if they had just put the management of the country into the hands of big business there and then. Who needs government anyway?

Posted by: spanielmcnugget | October 16, 2008 3:46 PM

gettyleigh - I hardly think that the American Enterprise Institutes is an unbiased source.

I would be utterly mystified if they were not heavily attacking Obama. They have so much invested in the policies of this present government.

Posted by: CynthiaD1 | October 16, 2008 3:45 PM

gettyleigh,

Some businesses -- even small ones -- have capital gains because they take profits from the business and put that money into investments. If they sell the investments, or own real estate, there's a good chance in an up-market, or if they've held onto the property long-enough -- that there will be capital gains.

As far as a 39 percent tax rate goes, your argument doesn't wash. That's the same line that was used in 1993 by people like Phil Gramm, who used the same argument against Clinton who was returning the top marginal rate to a level comparable to where it was before 1986 (actually even a bit below the '86 rate).

We were told, jobs will be lost, we'll go back into a recession.

What happened?

The longest economic expansion in U.S. history. An increase in the median wage of $7,000. Decreases in unemployment, robust economic growth.

The top marginal tax rates right now are almost exactly where they were pre-Great Depression. Historically the rates are lowerer than they were in the 1940s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s (up until 86).

During a period when we had an 80+ percent rate on the top income bracket in the post-war period, we experienced a doubling in the size of the U.S. economy, which corresponded with a doubling in the size of the median wage.

See, this is why the GOP has to resort to fear tactics every election. When it comes to economic performance -- especially as it relates to the middle class -- the GOP has an extremely sh-tty track record.

Even in the case of Carter, he was the unfortunate beneficiary of price controls that Nixon imposed during the oil crisis (when the controls expired, prices and inflation sky-rocketed). It was Carter's Fed chair who did the politically damaging thing by jacking up interest rates to kill off stagflation. Reagan reaped the rewards two years later. Today most people still consider Paul Volcker as one of the best Fed chairs in U.S. history. He served a second term under Reagan. (FWIW, Volcker is backing Obama this election cycle -- as are most of the heavy-weights in economic policy).

Posted by: JPRS | October 16, 2008 3:45 PM

Wow. This guy doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

What a fraud. Classic McCain/GOP nonsense. "Joe" and Sarah Palin can pal around after the election and talk about what it's like to be nothing more than a cheap prop for the right-wing.

So how long before he's put in jail for not paying his taxes?

Posted by: WilliamJ1 | October 16, 2008 3:45 PM

high five to U/A 525,is bombard mech still kicking? i bet this guy is doing service . . . you wouldnt happen to be scott would you?

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:42 PM

Obama Zombies - Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah Envy, Envy, Envy, Envy, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Obama Messiah, Obama Messiah, Obama Messiah, Obama Messiah, Move-On, Move-On, Move-On, (get the message yet) Move-On My High school Teacher said so, My High school Teacher said so, My High school Teacher said so, (haven't got it yet) Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Envy, Envy, Envy, Envy, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate...

Posted by: lewisthe17 | October 16, 2008 3:40 PM

This is yet another example of John McCain and his campaign staffers not doing their homework. They didn't vet Palin thoroughly and now Joe the Plumber has bitten them. Perhaps Senator McCain should suspend his campaign and search for a licensed plumber.

Posted by: spotfoul | October 16, 2008 3:39 PM

In an interview before the Republican National Convention, Niger Innis, the spokesman for the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) expounded that “It was clear that Barack Obama’s ties to the left are familial, generational, and have lasted for several years.” He went on to say that “as a black American, he was exceedingly proud at the American people’s response to Barack Obama’s candidacy,” Innis expanded his perception by averring that “. . . to deny that he [Obama] has long-standing ties to left-wing elements in our polity is to deny reality. If you want to be president of the United States, it is not racism if you ask these kinds of questions, and he has to come up with the answers, hopefully they will be the truth.”

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:37 PM

OK.. I HAVE BEEN A PLUMBER SINCE I WAS 19 -49 NOW(REGISTERED APPRENTICE FIRST 4 YEARS )IN CONNECTICUT..YOU CAN WORK WITH A LICENCED JOURNEYMAN..TO WORK ON RESIDENTIAL HOMES..YOU HAVE TO BE LICENCED..AS AT LEAST A LICENCED JOURNEYMAN PLUMBER IF YOU ARE ON THE JOB..WORKING FOR A COMPANY THAT HAS A MASTERS LICENCE..IN CONNECTICUT YOU MUST FIRST BECOME A LICENCED JOURNEYMAN..AND WAIT 2 YEARS TO GET YOUR MASTERS LICENCE..ANOTHER TEST..I HAD A BUSINESS THEIR FOR 10 YEARS..I LIVE IN LAS VEGAS NOW FOR THE LAST 14 YEARS AND NEVADA IS THE SAME WAY..I HAD A BUSINESS HERE FOR 10 YEARS..BUT YOU STILL NEED TO BE A LICENCED JOURNEYMAN TO WORK ON COMMERICAL OR RESIDENTIAL..UNDER A MASTERS LICENCE ( OWNER )..I WORK FOR LOCAL 525 PLUMBERS AND PIPEFITTERS UNION..NOW..MY FATHER HAD A STROKE 7 YEARS AGO AND MY WIFE HAD CANCER 6 YEARS AGO..SO EASIER FOR ME 40 HR..WORK WEEK..BUT ANYWAY I HAD 6 GUYS WORKING FOR ME IN CONNECTICUT AND NEVER CAME CLOSE TO MAKING FOR MYSELF 250,000 AT LEAST HALF GOES TO PAYROLL..WORKERS COMP EATS UP A BIG CHUNK..MATERIAL FOR JOBS,YOU WRITE OFF TRUCKS FOR 5 YEARS ,TOOLS,AND SO ON..YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE A HUGE PLUMBING COMPANY TO EARN 250,000 AS THE OWNER..LIKE A LARKIN HERE SERVICE COMPANY WITH 60+ TRUCKS, AND 60-70 GUYS OR A UNION PLUMBING COMPANY..WERE YOUR JOBS ARE IN THE MILLIONS..JOE HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT..AND I WONDER IF HE IS EVEN RIGHT ABOUT NOT HAVING TO BE A LICENCED JOURNEYMAN IN OHIO TO WORK ON RESIDENTIAL HOMES..IN CONNECTICUT DEPT. OF CONSUMER PROTECTION AND NEVADA STATE CONTRACTORS BOARD..I AM SURE THE NEXT THING TO COME OUT WILL BE WHOEVER REGULATES OHIO PLUMBING INDUSTRIES..IF YOU DO NEED TO BE LICENCED TO WORK ON RESIDENTIAL HOMES..MCCAIN MIGHT BE REGRETTING BRINGING UP JOE'S NAME 30 TIMES LAST NIGHT.

Posted by: thailandjames1 | October 16, 2008 3:37 PM

Classic60 well thanx i think, but i dont think my masters license and associates degree qualifies me.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:36 PM

This is hilarious. Every last prop the Republicans throw up there to try to look like the champions of "everyman" turns out to be a farce. Why common working people would fall for these GOP snakeoil salesman in this day and age is just mystifying. Information is so easy to get now with the internet. You don't have to be a dupe anymore.

If you believe Obama is a Muslim or pals around with terrorists, it is because YOU VERY BADLY WANT TO REMAIN IGNORANT AND HELPLESS.

Posted by: B2O2 | October 16, 2008 3:36 PM

Additionally, Obama wants to restrict trade. Restricting trade is idiotic, as the value of the goods we export is almost 95% of what we produce. His fiscal philosophy, cast from the JFK administration, may have been great during JFK’s short tenure, but in our current dilemma we cannot afford to go that route. He needs to be cornered in the debates about these issues. Obama’s economic plan looks like Swiss cheese. Take note that in the Tennessee debate in, he dodged the question, when asked what he would sacrifice. The thing that scares me most about lawyers who seek the presidential office is that they are indoctrinated in the ways of twisting the truth and the law in a most convincing way.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:34 PM

BTW, did you see the ending last night?

http://images.derstandard.at/2008/10/16/1220631450981.jpg

Who looks more "Presidential"?

Posted by: tony_in_Durham_NC | October 16, 2008 1:42 PM
*******************

Priceless!!! Thank you!!!!

Posted by: abqcleve | October 16, 2008 3:34 PM

Gettyleigh: I think you should be on the top of the Repub ticket. You sure seem to know a lot. You would probably be better than Old Man McLame and the airhead beauty queen put together.

Posted by: Classic60 | October 16, 2008 3:34 PM

Raising the minimum wage might increase the amount of money in your paycheck, but the IRS will just take more tax to build their coffers. Again, Business owners are the only ones who get hurt. If the business fails, and the people are left unemployed, another burden is placed on the tax payers in the form of unemployment or health & welfare assistance. As for his healthcare plan, he claims it will not be socialized/ Yet, when the insurance companies no longer are in the loop, because everyone jumped on the government bandwagon, the feds will either have to oversee it themselves by forming a new federal agency or sub-contract it out to others. Either way, wastefulness and sloth, at the expense of the taxpayer, will be the ultimate outcome. All we have to do is look around us to see the many fine examples of government run agencies, and programs that are subsidized by the government to evidence the inefficiency of such organizations. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are a few great examples

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:32 PM

PEOPLE DON'T GET FOOLED BY THIS $250,000 TAX. THE $250,000 IS NOT YOUR GROSS INCOME NOT TAXABLE INCOME. IF YOU MAKE $250,000 PER YEAR, AFTER EXPENSES THE TAXABLE INCOME WILL BE LESS THAN $250,000.

Posted by: Impartialreporter | October 16, 2008 3:32 PM

Worse, it does indeed appear credible that Joe is a wife abuser, twice divorced relation to Charles Keating, according to a Republican blogger: http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/10/15/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-related-to-charles-keating-oops/

The fact that the best presidential campaign in the last 100 years is up against quite possibly the worst ever, and only has a 10 point lead is simply an indication of how many Americans live their lives in abject fear.

Posted by: abqcleve | October 16, 2008 3:32 PM

Otherwise, a business cannot be viable if there is not enough cash flow to keep it solvent. By adding more overhead in the form of another wage increase, and a reduction in cash flow from an increase taxes, margins of profit start shrinking, which in turn reduces cash flow. Small businesses are the heart and soul of America; more people are employed by small businesses than large businesses. In order to stay in business, they would have to raise their prices, which would in turn be passed on to the public. So nobody will truly benefit from his economic plan in that aspect.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:31 PM

gettyleigh,

What do you consider a line like "Paling around with terrorists"? Some kind of high level emotional appeal?

Just today I got a robo-call from the RNC about the "extremist" Dems and William Ayers. There wasn't one rational argument made in the call, just a purely emotional pitch made based on an appeal to fear.

The same b.s that the GOP leadership uses every election cycle.

The GOP recipe: Get the money from the sugar-daddies, blinker the base with pitches paid for by the sugar daddies, get into office, service the sugar-daddies, screw the base and every one else, repeat cycle again every two and four years.

Posted by: JPRS | October 16, 2008 3:31 PM

His claims that he is going to gain tax dollars by making businesses pay capital gains tax is pure nonsense, because businesses don’t pay capital gains taxes, they pay income taxes. Further, by raising taxes on businesses and raising the minimum wage, it just makes it that much harder for small businesses to remain in business. In the end, his plans to tax those making $250,000 is just going to inspire people to duck the tax by stopping short of those earnings, and impede commerce. People aren’t idiots; it will especially affect start-up businesses, as they will choose to not put the extra effort forth if they know they will not benefit from it. Likewise, people are notorious for getting over on the system, where is the incentive to bump earnings into the next tax bracket and have the hassle of dealing with more employees if you’re comfortable where you are at? What he is creating, is an insurmountable hump that will deter people from growing their businesses beyond $250,000 in yearly gross sales.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:31 PM

Penalized for making more than $250,000? Gee, I'd love to be in the position of making this complaint. But I'll give Joe credit for not actually seeking out this kind of attention. It sounds more like McCain/Palin twisting his words around.

Posted by: cb11 | October 16, 2008 3:31 PM

Brian Riedl of the Heritage Foundation says Obama has proposed nearly $350 billion per year in new spending; in all actuality his budget is looking closer to $850 billion. No matter the amount, at this point in time, the entire corporate tax code only raises about $350 billion annually. Even if Obama doubles the taxes on those making $250,000.00 or more he would still fall short of his goal. Not to mention, in our current economic downturn the tax base will not reach the projected $350 billion. So, it’s unrealistic to think the extra tax dollars collected will be enough to pay for all these things, and it’s unrealistic that he will be able to achieve all the promises he has committed to. For certain he knows this, and is aware that honoring all his promises is not a feasible proposition; so he is in fact, just stringing everybody along. More of the same is that, not only has he committed his administration to providing all those benefits to the voters and raising taxes on businesses, but he committed to raising the minimum wage again after it was just raised a few months ago.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:30 PM

The tax dollars that Obama plans to spend on socialized programs such as national healthcare will come from the taxpayers one way or the other. The money the government uses to pay for military expenses, welfare, civil servant salaries, government works programs, disaster relief, etc . . . is based on the money the government expects to collect from taxpayers and businesses. This money is not just sitting around waiting to be spent; it is a projected amount that they expect to collect. Especially now, that we have committed 700+ billion dollars to rescue all these corporations and defaulted home loans. Not to mention the 85 billion we spent bailing out AIG and the money for the other corporations we already helped. To top that off we now have a 10 trillion dollar deficit. Where is Obama getting all this money he has committed to tax cuts, tax credits, reducing the deficit, education benefits, healthcare benefits, and other social reforms? Understand,I am aware I missed a few of his handouts. At the Saddleback debate, he said people making less than $150,000 will see a tax cut, those making over $250,000 will see an increase in taxes; he never mentioned the fate of those who fall in between. There is a good chance he’ll do the same as McCain, and leave taxes in their present state, because of our economic circumstance.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:29 PM

The shocking revalation is not that Joe is not who says he is. Its that John McCain has attemped to execute a brazen fraud on the debate viewers. He asked this man, before hand, to accost Obama and question him about his tax plan based on a false presentation. The fact Joe is a tax-evader just adds irony.

It's a cynical and desperate ploy and its dishones. And its another in a line of would-be cunning stunts that have blown up in Wile E. McCain's face dynamite-style.

Posted by: wharwood | October 16, 2008 3:28 PM

According to the article at aei.org, “Big-Spending Democrats Squander the Trust of Voters,” “from 2001 through 2007 total government spending increased a whopping 47 percent, from $1.86 to $2.73 trillion. It didn't do that all at once, but rather, grew each year an average of 6.2 percent. The worst year during that time period for government growth was 2002, when it increased 7.9 percent. The best was, perhaps surprisingly, 2007; government spending only advanced 2.8 percent that year. Republicans tried to reform themselves, but did too little too late. How did the Democrats do? Spending has advanced this year an astronomical 8.3 percent, to $2.96 trillion, exceeding even the worst of the Bush years. Total spending this year was more than a trillion dollars higher than it was when Bush took office in January 2001, and more than $200 billion of that increase was accomplished in just the last year.” Considering the tax dollars that he plans to spend, his lack of transparency, his campaign tactics, his known associations, and his association with ACORN, voters need to seriously consider why they are willing to elect Barack Obama for the highest office in the land.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:27 PM

Poor Joe. Whining about his two-year-old truck and complaining that Obama hasn't done anything for him. This Republican believes in small government?? According to the NY Times, Joe also owes back taxes.

Joe shilled for the GOP by pretending that he was considering buying a plumbing business although he's not nearly able to afford it. Too bad he's too close-minded to realize that his taxes would be lower under President Obama.

Posted by: bamccampbell | October 16, 2008 3:27 PM

Posted by: Independent4tw

"So Joe the Plumber doesn't make $250,000 a year or more?"

Wow your a genius, took the wax out of your ears. What next you might even open yours eyes.

"Then I guess he should want Obama to be president, so that he can save up more money in order to eventually afford his business."

Now why would Obama help anyone like Joe. With supporters like you, I doubt if Obama would even give you his support, he doesn't even give his own brother support who makes $12 per year.

Why don't you send Obama’s brother $12.00, and you can prove that Obama is full of crap. Oh you really don’t believe in helping people, your just a Zombie for Obama.

Posted by: lewisthe17 | October 16, 2008 3:26 PM

McCain is just being McCain, the disrespectfull (old hot shot). I have news for Plumber Joe, he has no message to get out. Obama has already gotten the message out about his tax cuts will help 95% of the American people long before Joe came on the scene. McCain has managed to divert the real issues again to being a joke. McCain is the "American Nightmear"!

Posted by: msreginacomcastnet | October 16, 2008 3:25 PM

Classic60 you exude such intelligence pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease indoctrinate me with your line of reasoning as I know your opinionis the only one that matters in this world. i onloy wonder why you are not on the top of the democratic ticket

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:25 PM

sazzwho wrote:
"You know Republicans are upset when they start crying Marxism....Socialism. They have no idea what either one means."

Then someone else wrote:
"If YOU knew what socialism meant, you wouldn't be for Obama, friend. Before you accuse others of ignorance, you should know what YOU'RE talking about.

My turn

Capitalism 101: What Bush and McCain supported from 2000 to 2008, including massive tax cuts for the rich, massive deficits to fight unfunded wars which were started in order to make money for big corporations, massive deregulation leading to the collapse of the housing market and the bank

Socialism 101: What Bush and McCain did last week when the Bush administration nationalized the banking and housing system to prevent its friends in the banking and housing industry from losing money

Funny how a Republican can be a capitalist and a socialist at the same time and not see any conflict, isn't it?

Posted by: jjedif | October 16, 2008 3:24 PM

gettyleigh, you're obviously one those "ones" who can blather off a bunch of words and actually say NOTHING. You ought to go back to screaming in all caps again.

Posted by: Lalalu | October 16, 2008 3:23 PM

News Flash!!!!

"Joe the Lottery Player" is up in arms and mad as hell. What's he so upset about? It seems, under future President Obama's tax plan, that he might have to pay 3% more in Federal taxes after he "hits the big one." FoxNews reports this is a troubling issue and lottery players everywhere need to protect themselves from such thievery by getting out on Nov 4th and voting for McCain/Palin.

*Paid for by the future Mega-Ball jackpot winners for McCain.

Posted by: eff-o-dee | October 16, 2008 3:22 PM

If you do not like Obama because of one of these BUZZ words:

Muslim
Birth certificate
Ayers
Rezko
racist
anti-american

Or any other things that you heard, that might make you SCARED to vote for Obama, DO YOU SELF A FAVOR AND SEE WHO IS LYING TO YOU AT:

WWW.FIGHTTHESMEARS.COM

I am 100% sure that you are being tricked, and the truth is at this website.

STOP BEING A FOOL TO THE PUPPETMASTERS.

Posted by: Independent4tw | October 16, 2008 3:22 PM


Posted by: lichtme

Does any of this make Joe the Plumber a bad guy? Of course not.

But just look at those Republicans who are using him to advance the interests of the richest 1%.

It's an awful sight. . . . and like obama using half of hollywood to sway voters is completely normal? hypocrit!


Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:22 PM

Gettyleigh: BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Wannabe Republican.

Posted by: Classic60 | October 16, 2008 3:22 PM

JOE THE PLUMBER = CARL ROVE

Posted by: Impartialreporter | October 16, 2008 3:21 PM

Sadly, the people of the Obama Temple have become comfortable with the practice of demagoguery. For, Obama is the sort of political leader who gains power by appealing to people's emotions, instincts, and prejudices in a way that is manipulative and dangerous; preying on the naiveté of the younger generation and the lack of insight of those who should know better but don’t, is Obama’s strategy to attract voters. Change is not necessarily always a good thing, especially when it administers the medicine of socialism. Thomas Sowell, a distinguished authority on economics, once said “socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Obama’s, unquestioned flattery and praise, is evocative of another socialistic demagogue, he is just as mesmerizing as Jim Jones, who dazzled the members of the “Peoples Temple” in 1978 at a little place called Jonestown, Guyana; the revolution they experienced there was “revolutionary suicide.” If the Obamabots keep on drinking the “flavor aid,” spiked by this spellbinding “cult of personality,” the freedoms and protections we all cherish so much, will go the way of the 909 people who committed suicide with the cyanide laced grape drink; our liberties will be just like the spirit of those people, and the essence of the 276 children among them. The fundamental nature of our liberties will vanish into the thin air, just as the prototypical souls of those who deified the false idol of the “People’s Temple” 30 years ago. Socialism, at the national level, is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. In the end when all is equal, and socialism fails and the coffers are bare, who will the poor and misfortunate people lean on then?

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:19 PM

Does any of this make Joe the Plumber a bad guy? Of course not.

But just look at those Republicans who are using him to advance the interests of the richest 1%.

It's an awful sight.

Posted by: lichtme | October 16, 2008 3:19 PM

John McCain has spent the last 26 years at the top of the power pyramid in Washington.

John McCain owns 13 automobiles and, at least, seven houses.

John McCain was able to dump his first wife, who stood by him at the lowest point of his life, and pick up a second, much younger "trophy" wife who is s also a millionaire.

But John McCain is getting old; the average US male only lives about five or six years past the age that McCain is today. If I were in your position, I would be angry too, John. Life has been good up to this point. It can only get worse from here.

Still, why does John McCain think he needs to take out his anger on the rest of us? Probably because he just cannot help it. Some older folks grow old gracefully. But my own elderly mother, who died recently and whom I loved dearly, went through the same phase of anger and bitterness at the end of her life.

And as for Joe Plumber, yesterday my plumber paid our home a visit and I then paid my plumber a bunch of money, so even though I am sure my plumber is making less due to the recession; he still makes a lot more money than I do.

In a word, how can anyone think a, rich, angry and bitter old guy like John McCain will fight for those of us who are not rich, or white, or upset, or powerful elites like John McCain?

In fact, John McCain will not even help other older folks.

John Dubya McCain is a lose-lose proposition for EVERYONE.

Posted by: jjedif | October 16, 2008 3:19 PM

Posted by: Snakeheader | October 16, 2008 3:18 PM

JPRS . . . I GUESS MURTHA IS AN UPRIGHT MEMBER OF SOCIETY EVEN IF HE RACE BATING HIS CONSTITUENTS BY TAKING THEM ON A GUILT TRIP

DO NOT START TALKING ABOUT HOW UPRIGHT OUR POLITICIANS ARE ;. . . THERE IS A FAULT TO BE FOUND WITH EVERYBODY.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:18 PM

"Obama had 30 days to turn over his birth certificate to the Federal Court in Philadelphia but instead submitted a motion to not have to turn it in until his motion to dismiss was considered first. Why wouldn't Obama just give his COLB and his original long form b.c. to the judge?"

IF YOU THINK OBAMA IS NOT AMERICAN, YOU ARE AN IDIOT BECAUSE HERE IS A COPY OF HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE:

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

AND ALL OF THE OTHER LIES CAN BE FOUND AT:

www.fightthesmears.com

The Truth is the GOP can not win fair.

Posted by: Independent4tw | October 16, 2008 3:18 PM

Posted by: Snakeheader | October 16, 2008 3:17 PM

Just checked the Ohio State plumbing regulations. You must have a license to be a plumber Ohio. This guy should be up on charges of fraud.
He called a newspaper to take pics of him watching the debate.
Unltimate Republican - Ultimate Liar - Ultimate Non-taxpaying Crook like most Rethuglicans.

Posted by: zapped | October 16, 2008 3:16 PM

whereareweandwhatarewedoinginthishandbasket | October 16, 2008 2:55 PM

I know you were trying to be a smart arse, but at least under the Republican program you have the chance to be successful without fear of being punished with higher taxes. The money that you earn is yours to do with as you please. If that included furs, having your yacht cleaned with a toothbrush, or even a gold toilet then so be it. It is your money. Who knows how better to spend it than you and who knows your needs and desires better than you? If you’re a socialist like Obama that answer would be the government.

Personally when I see someone succeed I don’t get jealous. I get inspired, heck if they can do it so can I. It motivates me to try harder. Now if I see that person then get punished for their success with oppressive government taxes it discourages me from following suit as I’m sure it does many Americans.

Joe the plumber regardless if he was a plant or not peeled back Obama’s mask to reveal the socialist underneath. No matter what Joe’s status he did not put these words into Obama’s mouth and I doubt that Joe tricked the great orator into saying what he did.

Posted by: Batgeek | October 16, 2008 3:16 PM

sazzwho wrote:
"You know Republicans are upset when they start crying Marxism....Socialism. They have no idea what either one means."

If YOU knew what socialism meant, you wouldn't be for Obama, friend. Before you accuse others of ignorance, you should know what YOU'RE talking about.

Posted by: flipper49 | October 16, 2008 3:15 PM

Another reason McCain will loose? He didn't vet "Joe the Plumber", just like he didn't with his VP pick, Sara Palin.

Turns out Joe isn't a licensed plumber and isn't anywhere near being able to purchase that business. He lied to Obama about his circumstances in an effort to try to prove a point.

But I guess that's just the liberal media trying to make ole Joe look bad.
Sorry he did that to himself.

Say it ain't so JOE!

Posted by: Vaiden | October 16, 2008 3:15 PM

So Joe the Plumber doesn't make $250,000 a year or more?

Then I guess he should want Obama to be president, so that he can save up more money in order to eventually afford his business.

McCain will not help him now, Obama will.

Posted by: Independent4tw | October 16, 2008 3:14 PM

"Hey OldAtlantic.....Obama was born in Hawaii,and is a citizen. Children have the right to keep that status until they are an adult, no matter where they are taken by their parents during their childhood. But if you want to debate that point McCain was born in Panama!!! Another fact....what a great piece you are......you make a rug look like it is telling the truth. Posted by: sazzwho | October 16, 2008 3:04 PM "

Obama had 30 days to turn over his birth certificate to the Federal Court in Philadelphia but instead submitted a motion to not have to turn it in until his motion to dismiss was considered first. Why wouldn't Obama just give his COLB and his original long form b.c. to the judge?

http://www.obamacrimes.com/

Search protective order at above site.

Posted by: OldAtlantic | October 16, 2008 3:14 PM

Classic60 wrote . . . "There they go again. Those haters that call themselves Republicans. Spreading hate all over the place. Why are Republicans losers? Now that is the question" . . . who said i was a republican? CANT SEE THE FOREST FOR THE TREES CAN YOU? I'M A REGISTERED DEMOCRAT, BUT OBAMA JUST DON'T DO IT FOR ME . . . I WILL NOT SUPPORT HIS EXTREME VIEWS. MCCAIN IS MORE OF A CENTRIST THAN OBAMA EVER WILL BE.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:13 PM

I had a Coke last week; now I'm thinking of buying that company. And Obama-the-Easter-Island-Statue won't do anything to help, dagnabbit.

Posted by: fallschurch1 | October 16, 2008 3:13 PM

WHoo

this is going to burn a very big hole on people's tv screens tonight

another Republican fraud--

WMD's, spreading democracy, the economy is sound, we do not torture

Posted by: lichtme | October 16, 2008 3:13 PM

For Eisenstadt's information on Joe, go to http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/.

Posted by: thrh | October 16, 2008 3:12 PM

For all of the "Redistribution of Wealth" folks who keep crying about XOM's record profits, do you know what their profit margin is compared to other businesses? Do you know how much the Government already extracts from them in the form of taxation?

There was an excellent editorial in the August 4 WSJ regarding so-called windfall profits. Just because Obama or anyone else for that matter wants to make the oil companies the demon of the moment in order to hoodwink voters doesn't make it so. Big tobacco has a annual profit margin of nearly twice that of Exxon. So either wise up and educate yourselves to reality or stick the outcome of Big Government in your Waxman pipe and smoke it.

Neither side will give we the people a fair shake, so I am endorsing the Mickey Mouse/Joe the Plumber ticket.

Posted by: kevinloki | October 16, 2008 3:11 PM

gettyleigh,

A website idea registered by Republicans, no doubt.

There's a lesson there for GOP props.

The Party of Nixon is more than happy to use ordinary people during an election and then dispose of them when they've served their purpose.

The GOP is a party where the sugar daddies deliver the money, the politicians deliver the sugar daddies their favors, and the base just gets screwed.

Posted by: JPRS | October 16, 2008 3:10 PM

Wag Swag and Drag is about all you get from this Post.

See I told you all these people do is Hate. They Hate Joe and if you say something they will hate you. In fact they probably hate themselves. They haven't a clue as to who Joe is. But boy will they tell you all they believe about their conspiracy theories.

Scary scenario yet full of crap, with those who use words but can’t back them up cause of the Historical defeat of Democrat ideas in this country. The primary failure in the past 50 years of Government has been the Democrat Party failure to support and improve the quality of life in the United States.

All they spew is hate for YOU – JOE PUBLIC.

Posted by: lewisthe17 | October 16, 2008 3:10 PM

And then there are the reports, apparently originating with Martin Eisenstadt, a consultant to the McCain campaign, that "Joe the Plumber" is related to Charles Keating.

Yes, that Charles Keating.

Posted by: thrh | October 16, 2008 3:10 PM

Bloomberg is reporting that "Plumber Joe" owes back state taxes; Ohio has a lien on his property. Furthermore he's not a licenced plumber either.

Way to vet your info, Senator... Was this the same team that checked-out Sarah Palin?

Posted by: Smoke_Jaguar4 | October 16, 2008 3:10 PM

So Joe the Plumber doesn't make $250,000 a year or more?

Then I guess he should want Obama to be president, so that he can save up more money in order to eventually afford his business.

McCain will not help him now, Obama will.

Posted by: Independent4tw | October 16, 2008 3:10 PM

So Joe is all a fake story. He doesn't own the business, has no means to buy it, and he doesn't belong to the union he says he does. He also should have a license, though he says he doesn't and he owes back taxes. This man would get a tax break under Obama, but feels sorry for those at the top who might have to pay a little more in taxes. He doesn't even believe in social security. He is very much a right wing thinker. Why are people in the media paying any attention to him. It is not like he is a swing voter. He is in the McCain/Palin camp already.

Posted by: LW22 | October 16, 2008 3:09 PM

LMAO&ROTF! I'M CONVINCED THAT THIS ELECTION HAS BROUGHT OUT THE STUPIDITY OF DEMOCRATS EVERYWHERE. BECAUSE JOE THE PLUMBER MADE A STATEMENT THAT MIGHT HAVE AN EFFECT ON THE UNI-BAMA IN A NEGATIVE LIGHT, THE DEMOCRATS ARE INFURIATED. GO TO WWW.DEMSKILLJOETHEPLUMBER.COM TO DONATE TO THE SNIPER/ASSASIN FUND FOR KILLING JOE THE PLUMBER.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008
------------------------
There they go again. Those haters that call themselves Republicans. Spreading hate all over the place. Why are Republicans losers? Now that is the question.

Posted by: Classic60 | October 16, 2008 3:07 PM

www.killjoetheplumber.com

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:07 PM

It seems republicans love to humiliate themselves publicly.

Posted by: Lalalu | October 16, 2008 3:06 PM

As an Obama supporter, I admire both Joe and Obama for having a civil discussion on camera about taxes. Obama never waivered, never pandered, and Joe came away supporting McCain, just as he did before the confrontation. No harm, no foul.

McCain, YouTube, and a hungry news media - especially TV news - made the poor guy a news story. One more non-issue in this campaign.

Go Obama/Biden, '08.

Posted by: NCDem1 | October 16, 2008 3:05 PM

impeachtheonedotcom,

It doesn't require a vast conspiracy for the guy to be a GOP prop.

I'd never even heard about the guy before the debate -- yet Fox News leads with a story about him before the debate, and then McCain mentions the guy's name what 45 times?

For a couple hundred dollars I'm sure there are plenty of sympathetic partisans who would regurgitate talking points after the fact to advocate for their favored candidate.

It is odd though that Joe's story about himself doesn't check out.

Voted in the GOP primary this past year. Check.

Not actually a licensed plumber. Check.

According to ABC News, the guy also has some unpaid back taxes.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=6047360&page=1

Plus the GOP going back to Nixon's plumbers has a history with these kind of manufactured stunts.

At the end of the day it's still a distraction and a diversion.

Posted by: JPRS | October 16, 2008 3:05 PM

He's more like 'Joe the Plant'. He is probably a McCain campaign worker that is just saying he is a plumber.

Posted by: Classic60 | October 16, 2008 3:05 PM

Hey OldAtlantic.....Obama was born in Hawaii,and is a citizen. Children have the right to keep that status until they are an adult, no matter where they are taken by their parents during their childhood. But if you want to debate that point McCain was born in Panama!!! Another fact....what a great piece you are......you make a rug look like it is telling the truth.

Posted by: sazzwho | October 16, 2008 3:04 PM

Wow this guy JOE.. If you are a Partisan say you are, say you will not vote for Obama no matter what. Dont act like you will be hurt by his tax plan, where truely you will be helped.

Joe you are looking out for the rich guy, guess what Joe..." the rich guys are not looking out for you" aka $100+ mccain!!

Try taking some of the Obama tax relief and stack your cheese(meaining save your money) and you will be in a position to be rich. I alway say dont look a gift horse in the mouth. Both candidates are offering tax cuts Obama for the middle class and mccain for the rich. If I was Obama I would have said what about JOE CEO. mccain your plan would give JOE CEO a $700K tax break. mccain your tax policy would give JOE CORP a 4billion dollar tax break.. Come on PPL wake up!

Posted by: AMT64 | October 16, 2008 3:02 PM

I'm convinced McCain has run the all time worst campaign ever, in the shadow of the worst sitting president ever, and the most retarded base ever.

Posted by: Lalalu | October 16, 2008 3:02 PM

WWW.DEMSKILLJOETHEPLUMBER.COM

TO DONATE TO THE SNIPER/ASSASIN FUND FOR KILLING JOE THE PLUMBER.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 3:01 PM

John McCain went to the debate table determined to use Joe the Plumber as his mascot, and professor Eyers as his punching bag to score a knock out victory
against Obama. And even though Wall Street had hit the bottom on that day, and Americans have been overcome by Wall Street anxiety, McCain was determined not to discuss the economic turmoil for which his republican party is responsible. He is down in the polls, and if he loses this presidential bid at 72, his lifetime dream is over. He cannot be a candidate 8 years from now at the age of 80.

John McCain thought that if he could use Joe the Plumber as a pitch fork on Obama's tax plan, and Dr. Eyers as a scarecrow on Obama's character, he might be able to stop the flow of voters to Obama's camp. But his smirks, his agitated demeanor, and his hands waving didn't show statesmanship;
it showed desperation. And that desperation was at a different page from the viewers desperation on the Wall Street blues page.

As for Joe, the unlicensed Plumber, he was a fluke that became last minute's campaign pawn for McCain. His dream of
making $250.000 a year was a good match to McCain's fluke dream to become a president by avoiding the minefield questions on the Wall Street's calamity, and scare the voting viewers into his corral with badly engineered perceptions. But the Americans have already been corralled by the republicans on Wall Street, and have been milked from their investments, IRAs, and 401s by the big republican executives
that are now flying out of the mess in golden parachutes.

The epilogue: Americans now need a president who can fix the big leaks on the Wall Street that has drained their financial security and livelihood. And Joe the Plumber cannot fix them, nor can his mentor John McCain.
Nikos Retsos, retired professor, and a voter looking for a competent Wall Street plumber.

Posted by: NikosRetsos | October 16, 2008 3:00 PM

Sounds more like Joe the Whiner.

Posted by: upland_bill | October 16, 2008 3:00 PM

If Joe the Plumber finds it difficult making a go of it on 40k, perhaps he has set his expectations of material wealth attainable through semi-skilled labor a bit high.

What our nation needs to do is end the greed orgy, cut up the credit cards, and act responsible; life is not about how many toys you own when you die, its about integrity.

If your wealth is based on only investments, not work, you are a parasite.

Pay as you go.

Posted by: stmc | October 16, 2008 2:59 PM

News flash for all the Obama supporters: Obama will not have the money to do much of anything he promises and you can be sure that his blah-blah-blah promise that he won't raise taxes on anyone making less than $250k a year quickly will be forgotten by him once he's elected since, with what looks like a supermajority Democrat House and Senate, he will be answerable to no-one that opposes him and can pass ANY law he wants to. $250k will quickly be $150k, then $100k, then $60k. Obama has promised to "cut taxes" for 95% of Americans. He forgot to tell you the well-know FACT that 40% of Americans don't pay any income taxes. What he proposes to do is take money from the "rich" (see above)by taxing them more and cutting checks to poor people who pay no taxes anyway. That is called a hand-out. This will be a similar story for Obama's other plans. Those of us who are really "middle class" and paying all the taxes in this country, I believe, will see no benefits during Obama's term in office because he will have to chose who is going to "help" with what little money he is going to have (unless he wants to drive the National debt into oblivion) and will give it to those who are "standing behind us", as he said to Joe the Plumber. And let's see how many of the few U.S. or foreign big businesses (and jobs they bring here) in this country are still located here 4 years from now. Meanwhile, with no money to do much for the economy, education, health care, and social security, Obama will have free-reign and lots of free time with the liberal Democrat Congress to bring plenty of social "CHANGE" to this country. Hope every one is ready for whatever those changes may be. And no doubt Obama will lead the U.S. to a quick retreat from Iraq with our tail between our legs (and, by the way, I agree the U.S. should never have invaded Iraq)and make us the laughing-stock of our enemies, who will be greatly emboldened by our "failure" (hopefully we will all give our returning Iraq vets more respect than we gave our returning Vietnam vets). All this may not be a reason to vote for McCain (and I'm no fan of his), who has run a terribly bad campaign, but I do think that McCain would have provided at least a check to the unbridled spending and push towards a socialist-leaning U.S. that is likely coming and certainly would have been at least a moderating and fiscally prudent counterweight to the Pelosi-Reid Congress. The comments on this article and others I've seen show how polarized this country is - it is amazing and sad the vitriolic hatred that people show to one another, even on something like a presidential election. Obama and the liberal Congress is only going to make that rift wider.

Posted by: isjl | October 16, 2008 2:59 PM

LMAO&ROTF! I'M CONVINCED THAT THIS ELECTION HAS BROUGHT OUT THE STUPIDITY OF DEMOCRATS EVERYWHERE. BECAUSE JOE THE PLUMBER MADE A STATEMENT THAT MIGHT HAVE AN EFFECT ON THE UNI-BAMA IN A NEGATIVE LIGHT, THE DEMOCRATS ARE INFURIATED. GO TO WWW.DEMSKILLJOETHEPLUMBER.COM TO DONATE TO THE SNIPER/ASSASIN FUND FOR KILLING JOE THE PLUMBER.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 2:58 PM

"Muslim pages say these are the words a Muslim uses to say he is still Muslim. Posted by: OldAtlantic | October 16, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse
*******************************************************************
You really have to be retarded to buy that line of crap."
Posted by: norcalworm | October 16, 2008 2:47 PM

http://www.submission.org/convert.html

"
"When his Lord said to him "SUBMIT" he said, "I SUBMIT TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS" (Arabic: Aslamtu Li Rabbil Aalameen) Sura 2:131.

So here we have it. When God showed Abraham the perfect religion, He commanded Abraham to Submit ("Aslimu") and Abraham said "Aslamtu li rabbil aalameen". This is how MUSLIMS (or converts) should attest their faith (or to convert);

"I SUBMIT TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS"
"

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/
2007/11/12/obama_has_never_been_a_muslim_1.php

"I heard God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, "

Search: Kristof tape New York Times Obama Arabic to find ref that Obama recited Call to Prayers to Kristof. Obama knows Islam and knows what above words mean.

Posted by: OldAtlantic | October 16, 2008 2:57 PM

How dare Joe the Plumber think he can actually publicly voice his views on this race? Of course, his life should be dissected by the left for such audacity.

And, yet, the liberals scream character assassination when anyone broaches the link between Barack Obama and Bomber Bill Ayres.

Protect the domestic terrorist. Turn the investigative klieg lights on the working man. That says it all about the American Left these days.

Posted by: FreeMas | October 16, 2008 2:57 PM

The right can come on here defending McCain, Palin and Joe the Plumber all they want. It won't change the fact that Obama has the better economic plan, health plan, education plan, etc. McCain did another terrible job in the debate; he looks like a fool everytime he opens his lying mouth.

Joe the Plumber simply represents the same lying, sneaky ways of the Republican Party.

JOE, YOU'VE ALREADY MADE A FOOL OF YOURSELF AND YOUR MESSAGE IS GETTING OUT THERE, LOUD AND CLEAR: JOE THE PLUMBER IS A LIAR FOR THE McCAIN/PALIN CAMPAIGN AND TRIED TO PULL A FAST ONE WITH THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. DID YOU HONESTLY THINK PEOPLE WEREN'T GOING TO FIND OUT WHAT A FRAUD YOU ARE, JOE? WELL, TOO BAD, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT AS STUPID AS McCAIN AND PALIN THINK WE ARE.

GOOD LUCK, PAL, YOU'RE GOING TO NEED IT.

Posted by: Tess4850 | October 16, 2008 2:57 PM

“Vote Joe the Plumber ’08,” one shirt reads, with the tag: “No More Drips in the White House.”


NYT has a great article about ole' joe the poser.

Posted by: vote4magoo | October 16, 2008 2:56 PM

Things have been tough for Joe the Plumber after quitting the Village People.

Posted by: ComfortablyDumb | October 16, 2008 2:56 PM

>Have any of you considered how ridiculous it is to call this guy a Republican plant when it was Obama who came to his neighborhood?

Agreed, he wasnt a plant and yes, Obama came to his neighborhood, but this guy is clearly a McCain supporter who had an adgenda to confront Obama publicly. He stated so much and as a matter of fact, he contributed to the McCain campaign before all this.

Posted by: Dano111 | October 16, 2008 2:56 PM

I agree with Batgeek. You people need to get off your butts and get with the Republican program! Invest a little money, (like with a McCain lobbyist, for example), and earn yourself a fortune-then, re-write the tax code to ensure you get to keep as much of that hard earned cash as you can. As I've heard Hannity say on many occasions, this will "trickle down" to the masses through your magnanimity. Throw the shoe shiners a few extra sheckels. Buy some furs, (somebody has to kill the little minkses). Have someone wash your yacht with a toothbrush, by that gold toilet you've always wanted, (someone has to unload the crates from China). Now you're being patriotic. I salute you.

Posted by: whereareweandwhatarewedoinginthishandbasket | October 16, 2008 2:55 PM

The Washington Obama Post shows again what it would be like for Americans under an Obama administration. You would be attacked, investigated and lied about if you disagree with the Messiah.

So now the Obama Post is attacking a plumber. The point of the story about Joe is that Obama would raise his taxes in order to re-distribute his wealth as shown in the Obama video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOjMDTUWdNk


The Post...no stories about William Ayers, the unrepentent domestic terrorist that Obama had a long term relationship with. No stories about why Obama won't release his Columbia and Harvard records. No stories about why Obama will not produce his medical records. No stories about why Obama won't produce his birth records. Just attacks on everyday citizens because they happen to disagree with Obama.

Posted by: joep1 | October 16, 2008 2:54 PM

Well after a couple of days of Joe the Plumber spin by the news and GOP I'm finally glad to see that buried in the responses to this article that dcwsano finally picked out what no one else-- GOP, Obama, news talking heads-- YOU GET TAXED ON WHAT YOUR BUSINESS MAKES AFTER EXPENSES!!!-- Joe would have to make over $250,000 net AFTER gross income of probably close to $400,000 to pay more under Obama's tax plan. If your in business you need a truck, supply of backup parts, whatever your employee's cost, advertising, phone etc-- again Joe only gets taxed on what he nets after paying all of these expenses-- guaranteed he pays less taxes with Obama's plan.

It's pretty obvious that neither Joe the Plumber or John McCain have any idea how a small business gets taxed.

Posted by: ktodack1 | October 16, 2008 2:52 PM

Pathetic crap from the Republicans...about nothing. Get this knucklehead a real job...like plumber...an honorable profession...tarnished last night by his buddy McPlain...

Posted by: royals1 | October 16, 2008 2:52 PM

You know Republicans are upset when they start crying Marxism....Socialism. They have no idea what either one means. Taxing the wealthier of society has been a "democratic" (both Republican and Democrat) tradition. If people can't spend money on the bottom, then no one gets it in the middle and the top is always ok. Is he eliminating rich people? That would be Marxism. Everything split evenly. Paying a few more in taxes is Marxism....get real. Socialism is government control of major businesses and industries. It seems that the Bush administration has done more to make this a socialist state with bail outs and taking ownership of banks and insurance companies. Republicans always use these scare words to try to get people to vote with them. This is in the fine tradition of McCarthyism, Nixonism, Reaganism. SCARE SCARE SCARE......Paying more taxes is Socialism....wanting people on the bottom to get a glimmer of hope with some relief...that Marxism...WOW what a Christian nation we live in!!!!!!Let the poor rot, they don't need health insurance, get rid of food stamps let them eat out of dumpsters, freeze Social Security benefits, or get rid of Social Security all the way...old and disable people in our society need to have been better prepared... we don't need to worry that our national debt is over $10.2 Trillion dollars (over $5 Trillion over the last 7 years....that is a fact!!!!!!!!), thanks to a Republican President and Congress who have never had to budget themselves a single day in their lives....Get your facts and information straight. STOP the Lee Atwater/Karl Rove scare them right tactics......

Posted by: sazzwho | October 16, 2008 2:52 PM

I heard his name is not REALLY even Joe Wurzelbacher.

I heard that it is REALLY Geraldo Rivera with his hair and mustache shaved off.

Posted by: vote4magoo | October 16, 2008 2:52 PM

Joe might be a unlicensed loser driving a beat up old truck. But there's no denying he has great taste in sofas, picture frames, torchere lights, and coffee tables (with matching end tables). Should give up the marlboro lights joe, they'll kill ya before you can give yourself that raise you're dreaming about.

Posted by: madest | October 16, 2008 2:51 PM

300 million people in this country and I'm supposed to care about some guy named Joe from Ohio? Whatever.

Posted by: nmoses | October 16, 2008 2:51 PM

Does the Washington Post have any licensed jouralists on staff?

Posted by: impeachtheonedotcom | October 16, 2008 2:51 PM

Why hasn't Joe the Plumber been dubbed " Joe the Liar" or "Joe the Republican" (they are equivalent). He is not a licensed or registered plumber but he is a registered Republican!!

Posted by: cataraft1 | October 16, 2008 2:51 PM

I can't wait to vote for Joe the Vice President

Posted by: Merkins | October 16, 2008 2:50 PM

So Joe let me as you - Lets say you make $50-60 grand a year which is higher than the national average right. Someone else makes $300,000.

Under Obamas plan you get a $1000.00 tax cut. The guy who makes $300k pays an extra $2000.

Who do you think needs the money more? Who do you think feels it less?

Joe, if I'm making a quarter of a million dollars a year, I'd gladly pay $2000 more in taxes, esspecally knowing people like you were benefiting from it.

Posted by: Dano111 | October 16, 2008 2:50 PM

Is Robert Barnes a licensed journalist?

Posted by: impeachtheonedotcom | October 16, 2008 2:50 PM

I think Henry Waxman should subpoena Joe the Plumber to some sort of house oversight hearing and make him admit, under oath, that he lied about the whole thing.

Then, cut a plea bargain with him to rat out the Rove operative that put him up to it.

THEN THEN, cut a plea bargain deal with THAT guy to rat out ROVE himself!!!

It can't fail!

Posted by: vote4magoo | October 16, 2008 2:49 PM

Joe the plumber, was a Neocon/republican, McCAIN/PALIN plant. How convenient that the McCain camp had so much information on a guy that had showed up at an OBAMA rally. That's right, an OBAMA RALLY. Let's review,McCAIN can't seem to identify those hate mongers showing up at HIS rallies. Yeah, the ones that shout "kill him", "off with his head,"terrorist",the ones that show up with monkeys,ect...", but MCcain has a lot of information on some"average Joe" that shows up at OBAMA'S rally! Abe Lincoln once said "YOU CAN FOOL ALL OF THE PEOPLE-SOME OF THE TIME, BUT YOU CAN'T FOOL ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME".

Posted by: idallasj11 | October 16, 2008 2:49 PM

***For all you conspiracy theorists...

Have any of you considered how ridiculous it is to call this guy a Republican plant when it was Obama who came to his neighborhood? Yeah, the GOP bought this guy's house, gave him a job, and had him move in years ago all so that he could be there just when Obama (of his own decision and volition) was swinging through and all to ask Mr. Obama a question that the GOP just knew Obama would answer so badly. Yup. It’s just part of that vast right-wing conspiracy. Call CNN and don’t worry WAPO’s already on it!

Posted by: impeachtheonedotcom | October 16, 2008 2:48 PM

"Old Atlantic scares me. Republicans are sounding more and more looney the closer they get to losing their grasp on the White House. Posted by: JoeCPA | October 16, 2008 2:33 PM"

"OldAtlantic, did you know that Obama had a sex change operation when he lived in Hawaii, and is really a woman? Well, if you believe that crap you posted earlier about Obama not being a citizen, smuggling drugs into the U.S. from Indonesia and the rest, you'll certainly believe this. It's funny that Hillary's and McCain's people missed it. They certainly could have used it to discredit him. You should get that information to McCain while there's still time. Posted by: rayflournoy | October 16, 2008 2:35 PM"

Who is loony? This is why Obama can lie his way to the White House. To qualify as president a person has to have been natural born and never become a citizen of another country from birth to the time they are president. The AP has a photo they stand by showing Obama registered in an Indonesian school that used only the Indonesian language as a citizen of Indonesia.

Posted by: OldAtlantic | October 16, 2008 2:48 PM

Every body makes a big deal about McCain being a mad old man. Lets put the shoe on the other food. Let’s say you are running for an office. The person you are running against is young not bad looking has three times as much money to spend to tell everybody that every word that you utter is a lie and can buy up all the time in the world on TV to get his message out weather it is right or wrong. Then ad to the mix four out of five of the national media forgets that they should report in a fair and unbiased manner and join in and try to portray you as a negative old man. They take a line or two out of the speech that you just made that might sound negative and play it over and over and forget that you made a whole speech about the issues that the people want to know about. I think you might be a little mad too. Your opponent can set back and know the media is going to run all the negativity ad for you and then he can look like the calm cool candidate. John McCain is do a grate job considering that he is running a campaign against Obama and the media.

The last time I saw a candidate like Obama was when Jimmy Carter ran. He was calm cool and quiet. He won but was one of the worst president that we have had. All he knew how to do was spend money and do nothing else. He couldn't even get elected for a second term. That sound like the same way Obama is heading

Stop and ask your self were does the money come from and what do the rich people want that are giving him all that money. The money has to be coming from the rich and famous because the ordinary middle class person doesn't have the kind of money that Obama has spent over the last two years. He will be working for the special interest people trying to pay them back.

Posted by: fnp9 | October 16, 2008 2:48 PM

Joe the Plumber charged me $200 to snake a drain.

Joe the Plumber then told me that snaking the drain didn't clear the clog because of years of build-up and that he needed to scour the drain for another $130.

Joe the Plumber made $330 off me for less than an hour's worth of work. That's over ten times what I make!

On a side note, when I called Joe the Landlord to tell him that Joe the Plumber said the clog was a pre-existing condition, Joe the Landlord refused to pay for Joe the Plumber's cost's because he believed that Joe the Plumber was lying so he could overcharge. When that argument didn't work, Joe the Landlord, who owns at least three other rental properties, then told me he couldn't pay it because he wasn't made of money.

Finally, Joe the Landlord's wife called me to tell me that they would pay for it. A good thing too, because otherwise I would have had to take this to Joe the Judge in small claims court.

Of course, I'm just Paul the Middle-Class American. I don't own a home so I must be lazy, even though I work 40 - 60 hours a week. I don't run my own business so I must be stupid, even though I have a college degree in Computer Science. I also pay less taxes than the wealthy so I must be socialist, even though I pay my bills for overpriced internet, cell phone, gas, etc, which end up in the hands of the wealthy anyways as profits.

Posted by: paulflorez | October 16, 2008 2:48 PM

This is why Obama doesn't have to answer questions. The Angry Left won't let anyone question their prophet. BTW, what about the NYT Kristof tape of Obama quoting the Call to Prayer in Arabic? Also Obama quotes the Koran on his webpage when he says he switched to Christian:

Obama : I felt I heard God’s spirit beckoning me. Quran: I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds. Obama: I submitted myself to His will.

Muslim pages say these are the words a Muslim uses to say he is still Muslim.

Posted by: OldAtlantic | October 16, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse
*******************************************************************

You really have to be retarded to buy that line of crap. But guess what? Both the Red Chinese and the Russians helped program McCain while he was in Hanoi. If he were to get elected he'll launch a nuclear strike on the USA. McCain IS the Manchurian candidate.

Posted by: norcalworm | October 16, 2008 2:47 PM

This is a perfect example of McCain's horribly unsteady judgment. His campaign hacks couldn't even pick a good representative of Joe six pack.

Posted by: Lalalu | October 16, 2008 2:47 PM

I feel sorry for the guy, because McCain just used him to try to score some cheap points and now everyone is going to find out about his unlicensed plumbing work, the lien against him for unpaid state taxes, his two divorces - and, especially the fact that this dumb bunny (making $40,000 a year) would pay lower taxes under Obama's plan. His thought of buying the company was obviously just a hypothetical pipe dream argument he was using with Obama on that fateful day that he walked through Joe's neighborhood.

Joes of America unite! How many times will the Republicans trick us? It is time to stop voting against ourselves!

Obama/Biden

Posted by: johnsonc2 | October 16, 2008 2:46 PM

The business that he is supposedly planning to buy, does not do 275,000 a year business, It only does $138,000 year.

For those of you with no common sense, growing a business is the idea of being in business . . . not standing still. And althouigh joe may not be licensed, he may be working on getting his license for all you know. In some states, like PA, there are no license requirements. The ignorance of People never seems to amaze me! Go ahead and stomp on someone's dreams, because your being surpassed by that person in your own personal career choices might make you look and feel inferior. Roto Rooter was once a small shop, and it s a national chain now . . . wonder what it's worth? Any company that expands beyond three service trucks will be effected by Obamas tax policy. Getting over that $250,000 hump, will not be easy for anyone trying to expand any further. So for those of you out there running your mouth, without any idea of what your talking about . . . you ought to just STFU until you get a clue.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 2:46 PM

Make sure to get your"Joe The Plumber - No more drips in the White House," T-shirts before they are pulled off the market by the discredited McCain campaign. McCain stumbles and falls again.

Posted by: Hoffmann1 | October 16, 2008 2:45 PM

Why are these the same jerks who criticized Sarah Palin for being a stupid person having given birth to her son Trig? Why looky dat kooky! A whole bunch of people haters have come together in this Kill Joe the Plummer article to show how really Marxist they truly are.

Marxist Shark Attack - kill the innocent.

Well, Don't Stop now we all want to see how far you will go to destroy Joe, because we now know how you feel about the rest of us Americans. You wimps are so lame. What are you going to do next start giving us the middle finger, burn down McCain signs, start riots in the street, silence our Freedom of speech, kill us? Come on lets see you do you worst!

Posted by: lewisthe17 | October 16, 2008 2:45 PM

OldAtlantic - I have to echo the universal concern as to how you can type with your head stuck up between your cheeks. This is such a sad GOP base - idiots who cut and paste every lie, every distortion in some shrill attempt to distract from the lousy last eight years and the pathetic McFeeb campaign. I almost feel sorry for you.

Posted by: LABC | October 16, 2008 2:45 PM

Please talk about our economy. We are losing our primary, secondary and investment houses every day, losing 401k, losing money in Stock market, losing job, increasing nation and personal debt. Every day some one is going for either foreclosure or bankruptcy.

If Joe makes 250k, he can claim so much expenses. He can change his company status from C corp. to S corp. He is still better than lot of Americans. Please talk about those who make less than 100k.

Posted by: shaik | October 16, 2008 2:44 PM

Sarmstrong71, who cares what he does with the money that he has earned? It’s his damn money. Just as the profits that “big oil” are the profits of “big oil”. As far as trickle down theory in the oil business it does work. My brother in-law does research for the oil companies and has seen the research side expand greatly in the past few years. If you don’t see it you’re looking in the wrong place. It is Big Oil after all and there are lots of things they have their fingers into.

If you’re so jealous of the success of others get off your arse and get some for yourself. Maybe after that you will understand the risks, sacrifices, and hardships somebody has to endure to obtain success.

Posted by: Batgeek | October 16, 2008 2:43 PM

The other thing this knucklehead said to Curic was even though he makes less than 250,000 and would benifit from Obamas tax plan, he feels that Obama may reuce that down to 100,000 dipite no evidence what so ever.

He just wants an excuse to vote for McCain who he has already contributed to.

Fair enough, but just say that Joe instead of all this nonsense. Your a typical small government, low tax conservative. Just say it.

Posted by: Dano111 | October 16, 2008 2:43 PM

Better believe it bostonlincs, i have relatives in Nederland and that is the fact. Shops only open late once a week and each town rotate.

Posted by: candida1 | October 16, 2008 2:43 PM

I think Joe was briefed and "planted" by McCain into the Obama rally and that last night's references to him were planned all along. I think this is going to come to light and will be the final nail in the dirty politics coffin of the McCain campaign.

Posted by: DelawareFlyer | October 16, 2008 2:41 PM

Posted by: jaiderbertoli | October 16, 2008 2:40 PM

So.... "spreading the wealth around" is socialism? I sincerely hope that McCain comes out fighting. We can't have socialism in this country - no more spreading the wealth around! We need to get rid of it all - no more entitlements! No more social security! No more medicair or medicaid! No more earned income tax credit!

Hmmmm.... I think I hear a landslide coming.

Posted by: kennethk | October 16, 2008 2:39 PM

It is obvious that Joe wasn't talking about his current salary or what his company is making now- net or gross, it is the business environment that he will face with an increase in taxes-ANYBODIES taxes. Obama is calling for that along with letting Bush's tax cuts expire as well as a huge amount of new spending. If you think that will help the economy I suggest you go to the library and check out 2 books, one on economics and one on history.

Posted by: Sean_Campbell | October 16, 2008 2:39 PM

Look at the picture above. The photo caption says the picture was taken by Lori King/Toledo Blade. Joe knew ahead of time that he is going to be on TV. So he calls a camera crew from Toledo Blade to come to his house while watching the debate to take his picture. How many of us thought that we should have our own picture taken when we watched the debate?

I pity the residents of Toledo, Ohio who call on Joe to fix their toilet. This guy has no license,hasn't paid the taxes and he is planning to buy a business. Wih McCain's plan he will fit right in, no need for anybody t pay any taxes, and everybody is in business.

Posted by: JohnMcCormick | October 16, 2008 2:38 PM

What's his message? Why do I need to know it? Perhaps he finds Obama's tax plan too complicated and thinks more people should do like McCain: Marry a rich beer distributor heiress!

Posted by: madest | October 16, 2008 2:38 PM

I do make over $250,000 and I don't mind paying 2.5 or 3 percent more on that money. I can afford it and if it means people have a good health care system (savings in the end); a good education system (makes us prosper); and can help us bring down our mounting debt/deficit, then I'm willing to pay. People in the US talk in platitudes and in iconic terms about sacrifice and duty to country. That also includes all of us doing what we can to make the dream happen. Republicans do nothing but spend and borrow on that dream. In the end that tends to bankrupt our economy and jepordize our national security. At least Democrats try to pay for what we are doing. Our government is not a credit card! Joe the plumber, as many have said, is either a "plant" or has fallen for the typical rhetorical bait and switch of the Republican tax plan...like many issues if you touch them with emotions ("I don't want to pay taxes!" - like anyone does), then they won't think beyond the details. These types of low information votes the GOP relies on are what is bringing this country down. Unfortunately when things are as bad as they are even a good portion of these voters stop trusting the people praying on them. Obama will win. The Ds will pick up many seats in Congress.

Posted by: dlearn | October 16, 2008 2:38 PM

I will be forthright: I am voting for Obama. McCain once had my respect - pre-2000 - because of his integrity and commitment to principles. I may have disagreed with him, but at least he was one of the few in Congress with whom I could find little fault in his character. He's now a stooge and hopefully a soon-to-be fall guy. This nonsense with Joe-the-Plumber only further deepens my suspicion. Shortly after reading about this "sudden celebrity" I thought of Sergeant William Schumann, the straw-man in Wag the Dog. Both characters are even bald (like me). I sincerely doubt (let's hope) he doesn't have the same background or future as Woody Harrelson's character. However, it falls right in line with the desperation theme of Mr. Fix It, Conrad Brean or Karl Rove.

Posted by: gratefolks | October 16, 2008 2:38 PM

>Obama comes up to this guy's neighborhood, this guy asks a tough question, Mr. Eloquence then "taps dances the question" (as well put by Joe), Obama gets hit over and again about it during the debate last night, WAPO and left-wing bloggers panic, WA PO, left-wing bloggers, and Obama sycophants proceed to attack the >questioner.

You way off base here. This guy Joe W. admitted in serval interviews he was clearly in the tank for McCain.

He confronted Obama with a clear adgenda rather than seek information. Even knowing now, Obama's plan is better for him, he cant bring himself to admit it.

I guess this is what you get when you are a smart *ss and whole country watches.

Posted by: Dano111 | October 16, 2008 2:37 PM

If there are any doubts about Joe being a plant, how did they get a photo of him watching the debate? It was all set up ahead of time. Unless of course, the media staged the photo after the fact.

Posted by: lynnsf | October 16, 2008 2:37 PM

This is absolutely unbelievable. Even if this guy was a plant, did ANY of you idiots hear Obama's answer? THAT is the issue here. And if he indeed was a plant? I say brilliant on the part of the Republicans. Maybe the only way to make The Almighty One spew his truth IS to trick him into it.

Posted by: mgoose326
*******************************

That you think this is brilliant is why the McCain campaign is in the dire straits that it is in - it has become the refuge of just plain stupid folks...

Posted by: LABC | October 16, 2008 2:37 PM

So, using "Joe the Plumber"'s logic, I MIGHT win the Powerball jackpot one day, so I should vote for McCain now? Again, McCain has tossed another empty grenade in the campaign to distract us from what's happening and how he's just interested in the rich. He has become tragic, hasn't he?

Posted by: jaynashvil | October 16, 2008 2:37 PM

Joe's a fake plant, yet the Republicans who respond to this thread think everyone should ignore that and focus on what Obama said. What a gang of con's.

Posted by: Javalation | October 16, 2008 2:36 PM

Not a licensed plumber.

Not making $250k per year.

Not paying BACK TAXES. http://apps.co.lucas.oh.us/onlinedockets/Docket.aspx?STYPE=1&PAR=LN200701803-000&STARTDATE=01/01/1900&ENDDATE=01/01/2100&PARTY=D,1

Donating over $1000 to McCain.

This guy is a joke!

Posted by: markedwards1 | October 16, 2008 2:36 PM

The nation is so skeptical and cynical at this point that this is the kind of distraction that makes us lose focus on the issues.

On that note, I don't think it's beneath John McCain to pull the kind of a stunt of planting this guy in front of Obama to question him, and then McCain magically remembers it and makes it the centerpiece of his debate. It's crafty and it's bogus -- both on the facts and motive.

If McCain truly believes his tax and economic policies could stand on their own, why would he need "Joe the Plumber" to make the point for him? This is despite the fact that Joe the Plumber does NOT make $250K, is in NO position to buy the plumbing business he works for, and finally, the business itself DOES NOT make more than $250K.

Sorry this just does NOT pass the sniff test. It's not an October surprise; it's more an October joke -- but the joke is on the American people.

Posted by: girlieg33k | October 16, 2008 2:36 PM

What's this guy trying to pull? He's not registered to vote-was he planning on voting as Tony Romo? I guess we can't be too hard on him-every time the Rs cut taxes on corporate CEOs to the tune of millions a year-if they throw this guy five bucks he's happy. He doesn't realize that we had to borrow it all, and that the bush years have added 100,000 in debt that didn't have before, that he now owes as an average federal income tax payer. Not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. In other words, the Republican base.

Posted by: whereareweandwhatarewedoinginthishandbasket | October 16, 2008 2:36 PM

I see- when you can't face the facts, change the subject(??!!) This is all about Obama's outrageously revealing statement.
For the record:
Obama: "It's not that I want to punish your success, I just want to make sure that everybody that is behind you, that they have a chance for success too. I think that when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

Mmmmmm... Wealth Spread! I can't believe it's not EARNED! (see thepeoplescube if you don't get it....)

Posted by: Ob1Zenobi | October 16, 2008 2:36 PM

This is the typical LIBERAL(insert LIAR) response.

You are more concerned about if the guy is regulated than you are if Obama steals from him and gives to an unproductive
miscreant.

Posted by: dnfsmth | October 16, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse
**************************************************

This is your typical NEO-CON (insert Mental Midget) response.
Licensing is to assure that the contractor is actually capable of doing the work he's charging for. That's why they have contractors exams.
And yes, we want to make sure he pays his fair share of tax. And we sure don't want John "Keating Five" McCain or Sarah "Bridge to Nowhere" Palin giving it to their rich cronies rather than spending it on our nation's needs.

Posted by: norcalworm | October 16, 2008 2:35 PM

"Hey OldAtlantic. You ask a lot of stupid questions. Here some for you. Have you been able to get your head out of your ... yet? Or is it still stuck where the sun don't shine? Posted by: MickyD1 | October 16, 2008 2:27 PM "

"@Old Atlantic
Keep earning that RNC paycheck!! You will keep more of it after Jan. 20. But give us a break, even McSame does not believe that BS. Put it on loony tune right win thread that will appreciate it!Posted by: adhardwick | October 16, 2008 2:23 PM"

This is why Obama doesn't have to answer questions. The Angry Left won't let anyone question their prophet. BTW, what about the NYT Kristof tape of Obama quoting the Call to Prayer in Arabic? Also Obama quotes the Koran on his webpage when he says he switched to Christian:

Obama : I felt I heard God’s spirit beckoning me. Quran: I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds. Obama: I submitted myself to His will.

Muslim pages say these are the words a Muslim uses to say he is still Muslim.

Posted by: OldAtlantic | October 16, 2008 2:35 PM

genuine risk
what was your source for joe having a keating affiliation?
with all this misinformation does it make any difference how we vote
the votecounters answer to the same bunch of white house croooks and cronies as the rest

Posted by: wofat | October 16, 2008 2:35 PM

I do not care who this person is, who he related to and who he votes for.

Wat happened last weekend is that I have finally heard it clear in few sentence – real Obama, real plan to take the money I earn and give to someone who does not work for living or do not pay taxes. “My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.”

There are many joe’s and janes in this country who work hard to succeed, pay taxes, save for health care, retirement, college education, responsible for their spending. This is a foundation of our country. I do not want to live in a country of poor? If everyone is poor – who will buy or start this small business, create jobs, give employment benefits, pay taxes and give to charities?

Posted by: morena77 | October 16, 2008 2:35 PM

I disagree generally with Mr. Wurzelbacher's politics, his views on Social Security, and his attitude towards paying higher taxes if he's making a quarter million a year (fyi, there's a fair chance I could do the same within five or so years). I also think he's misinformed.

This does not make him a bad guy. Mr. Wurzelbacher sounds like a very legit guy. The fact that he lacks a plumbing license is NOT a big deal. On the other hand, it's pretty darn funny and ironic, considering the debate.

Posted by: pseudo999 | October 16, 2008 2:35 PM

OldAtlantic, did you know that Obama had a sex change operation when he lived in Hawaii, and is really a woman? Well, if you believe that crap you posted earlier about Obama not being a citizen, smuggling drugs into the U.S. from Indonesia and the rest, you'll certainly believe this. It's funny that Hillary's and McCain's people missed it. They certainly could have used it to discredit him. You should get that information to McCain while there's still time.

Posted by: rayflournoy | October 16, 2008 2:35 PM

The rumor that Joe is related to Charles Keating is unsubstantiated. It was brought up by a bloger on one of the progressive blogs. The same blogs that claimed that Trig was really Bristol’s son and all the other numerous biased BS stories that have been proven wrong.

In any case the nuts and bolts of the question that Joe asked Obama are a solid concern for many people. If the cut of for being rich and middle class is $250,000 where is the incentive for success? I know, I know the knowledge that the fruits of my success is helping someone less fortunate should give me a sense of well being. Well if I wanted to feel all warm and fuzzy inside I would donate money directly to a charity of my choosing. I don’t relish the idea that some bureaucrat will take my money that I worked very hard to make and give it to somebody that didn’t, or worse to some political cronies. The best way to avoid this is to allow me to keep the money I have legally earned. I can then use that money to expand my business creating jobs, donate to a charity, or whatever. The gist of it is that the money will go directly to help people in my own community.

The flaw or maybe the blatant omission with Obama’s tax plan is when he states that 95% of the businesses in America make less than $250,000. He shows IRS data as proof of this. He then says he will close the loopholes and deductions for businesses. Here’s the kicker. The reason that so many businesses in the IRS data make less than $250,000 is because of these deductions. When he takes these available deductions and loopholes away from businesses expect to see many of them making more than $250,000. Then instead of them having that money the government will so it can “spread the wealth”. It will however do the opposite as most government programs often do. Instead of spreading wealth it will only spread misery.

Posted by: Batgeek | October 16, 2008 2:34 PM

I see- when you can't face the facts, change the subject(??!!) This is all about Obama's outrageously revealing statement.
For the record:
Obama: "It's not that I want to punish your success, I just want to make sure that everybody that is behind you, that they have a chance for success too. I think that when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

Mmmmmm... Wealth Spread! I can't believe it's not EARNED! (see thepeoplescube if you don't get it....)

Posted by: Ob1Zenobi | October 16, 2008 2:33 PM

Old Atlantic scares me. Republicans are sounding more and more looney the closer they get to losing their grasp on the White House.

Posted by: JoeCPA | October 16, 2008 2:33 PM

candida one- so people in Europe don't work past 6pm? Have you ever BEEN to Europe? Sorry, but that's the silliest post I've read in a long time!

Posted by: bostonlincs | October 16, 2008 2:33 PM

If Joe the Plumber bought his company, and cleared over $250,000, do you really think any tax cut would go to hiring more people? No. He'd get himself a house with all the "Bells and whistles", he'd get himself a new fuel-guzzling truck. The last thing he'd be worried about would be giving his employees a better wage. Disagree? Just look at big oil. Record profits for more than two years straight. Did the little oil guys get raises? Nope. Did Exxon have a wave of new hirings? Nope. The trickle-down theory was just that, a theory, which has been disproven by empirical evidence. When the rich get richer, the gap between rich and poor widens.

Posted by: sarmstrong71 | October 16, 2008 2:32 PM

Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin have something in common, they both cheat on their taxes:


http://liesliesmorelies.blogspot.com/2008/10/joe-plumber-tax-cheat.html

Posted by: Snakeheader | October 16, 2008 2:31 PM

I've read in some of the previous posts about how low taxes for the wealthy and corporations will create jobs. Ok, Bush cut taxes for those constituencies...where are all these great jobs that was supposed to create? In fact, those tax cuts didn't help create any jobs or stimulate our economy. They didn't do anything but help the rich get richer!

Obama's plan will only raise taxes on people making more than $250,00/year to the level they were before Bush's tax cut. We have to pay for these wars and the debt that a Republican congress left us with somehow.

Posted by: sceaton8ball | October 16, 2008 2:31 PM

Joe, Joe, Joe. Every dog has it's day. Today is yours I'm afraid. You didnt heed the warning to not talk with the media.

Now look at what we've learned about you. A McCain supporter with an adgenda to confront Obama publicly over taxes, only to have it backfire in your face because we find out you in fact would get the cut based on your earnings and your company.

You let us into your living room and we heard your conservative talking points still.

It's ironic that someone who is against paying taxes, government and social security is also against lawful business practices. Hey joe, never did a side-job and pocket the money right?

Another self centered con who cares more about their own personal adgenda rather than the country as a whole.

I wonder if Joe will feel the same way about the governemnt and tax when he's on the unemployment line for practicing without a licence? Who do you think pays that Joe?


Posted by: Dano111 | October 16, 2008 2:31 PM

It is obvious that Joe the plumber was a plant by either faux news, a right wing nutjob (think swiftboaters) or more than likely mcbushie et al.

But rather than blame WaPo for smearing this twice divorced, tax cheating, misleading/misspeaking SWaMP, try reading the following which is his hometown newspaper.


http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/810160418

Posted by: opuddles | October 16, 2008 2:30 PM

"OLDATLANTIC, You need to do a cleanse for your body and mind. Posted by: blueonblue | October 16, 2008 2:19 PM"

Why do the MSM sound like OJ lawyers? Aren't they supposed to sound like Marcia Clark and Chris Darden to each candidate? Ask McCan about Vietnam POWs still left too. MSM want 50,000 dollar speaking fee gigs. That's why as debate moderators they ask no evil, see no evil and hear no evil. Then they get the 50k speaking fee gigs as a reward.

Posted by: OldAtlantic | October 16, 2008 2:29 PM

Obama won't raise the average persons taxes, give me a break!

Obama said that a Health insurance policy will cost 12,000 dollars/year.

Obama said that the 45 million uninsured will be covered.

That is 540 BILLION dollars per year, and that is on only one proposal!

Wake up!

edge.

Posted by: edgeco1 | October 16, 2008 2:29 PM

"Not all the attention has been welcomed. Wurzelbacher, 34, told the Associated Press that he was NOT A LISCENCED PLUMBER. Because he WORKS FOR a SMALL company that does residential work, he said, he doesn't need to be licensed."

"Wurzelbacher said he is of modest means, but worried Obama's tax plans would eventually hurt him. "You see my house. I don't have a lot of bells and whistles in here, really. My truck's a couple of years old and I'm going to have it for the next 10 years probably. SO I DON'T SEE [Obama] HELPING ME OUT,'' he told reporters this morning".

SAY IT AINT'S SO "JOE"! For those who read too quiickly I capitalized the pertinent text in two paragraphs from the article.

I gotta ask "Joe" if he ever reads the paper or listens to the candidates speak because he's just the kind of "Joe" that Senator Obama want's to help with a tax cut for the bottom 95 percent in which group "Joe" is obviously a member. Too "Joe" knows he will never hit the big time doing only residential work. To make 250K you gotta do at least 2.5 million in business per year. 463,000 small businesses fall in that catagory out of 30 million. Senator Obama also has said he will help those 29.5 million small businesses with tax cuts as well.

The big mistake for "Joe" is the fact that once again McCain has gone off half-cocked with his (Mccains word) Cockamamee Campaign.

Senator McCain, If you can't make decisions (picking Palin)and you run a Cockamamee Campaign, how does anyone continue to support you?

"Joe" remember who got the biggest piece of the Republican tax cuts under Bush, the super wealthy individuals and the super wealthy gas producers. McCain also supports giving Exxon another 4 Billion of your dollars Joe!!!

Posted by: downhill240 | October 16, 2008 2:29 PM

http://familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.1465/pub_detail.asp

Before you brand Joe the next Benedict Arnold (or G Gordon Liddy), go and read what Joe said and when. Joe the Plumber appears to be just an average guy trying to get by in life, and heaven forbid, make an informed decision about who to vote for. He started out a few days ago at a rally asking questions that any voter should ask each candidate. Now, everyone is jumping to conclusions and looking for conspiracies. Get real. Where did all the adults go?

Posted by: AverageJoe7 | October 16, 2008 2:28 PM

Really now, I trhink people are missing the point. In our troubled economy, an economy that faltered because of both parties, lending institutions, and borrowers, do people really think there will be tax cuts? Do we not remember the promises of Clinton? Obama is just stringing everybody along; i want to know the precise tax percentages. Obama is unambiguous on so many issues it isn't funny. Niger Innis, the spokesman for the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) expounded that “It was clear that Barack Obama’s ties to the left are familial, generational, and have lasted for several years.” He went on to say that “as a black American, he was exceedingly proud at the American people’s response to Barack Obama’s candidacy,” Innis expanded his perception by averring that “. . . to deny that he [Obama] has long-standing ties to left-wing elements in our polity is to deny reality. If you want to be president of the United States, it is not racism if you ask these kinds of questions, and he has to come up with the answers, hopefully they will be the truth.” People need to keep their eye on the ball. The guy who asked if Joe was vetted is an utter idiot, why would you investigate someone, who is not a candidate or even a member of the campaign, for being a concerned citizen? I'll be glad when ths is all over with . . . mark my words that in 2012 there is going to be another economical crisis right around election time. We cannot afford to have these schmucks playing with our economy for the sole purpose of getting elected.

Posted by: gettyleigh | October 16, 2008 2:28 PM

Joe the Plumber needs to focus on the basics. Can someone help him NOW? I think the candidate that will most likley help him NOW is Senator Obama.

Sadly, Mr. Wurzelbacher has fallen for the Republican ploy of getting the working class to vote against their clear self-interest.

Should Mr. Wurzelbacher realize the success he hopes for, Senator Obama's policies will ensure he gets to enjoy it, and his neighbors will benefit as well.

If that's spreading the wealth around, lets get started.

Posted by: leyork | October 16, 2008 2:28 PM

The problem with the Libs is that they do not see through the smoke screen the media has clouded over them. The point is: it doesn't matter who Joe the plumber is, it's who he stands for, normal down to earth, hardworking Americans across the country. He's not rich, but he's not EXPECTING others to share their wealth with him because he set his goals to be OBAMA RICH someday. We are in our 40's and have finally made it to where we are comfortable, yet we fall in the OBAMA RICH category, so we'll have to sacrifice 3% of our income in addition to the 36% we already pay so that some low-income can have better things in life. Excuse me, but my parents taught me as I will teach my children, if you want better things in life, work hard for it and earn it. Work one job for what you need AND work two jobs for what you want! That's is what is great about this country. Have you been to Europe? People don't work past 6 PM there, stores are not open late cos the GOVERNMENT set the hours! They get 6 weeks of vacations annually because the GOVERNMENT mandates it. College students gets 5 years GOVERNMENT help to stay in school and guess what, they have always had higher Unemployment rate than we do. Why? It's because Americans work harder than anyone else because we are all given the freedom to do so.

Posted by: candida1 | October 16, 2008 2:28 PM

Has anyone noticed that Joe the unlicensed plumber has done more interviews than Sarah Palin. The word on the street is that Joe did better than Sarah. They both have one thing in common..... THEY LIE. The business that he is supposedly planning to buy, does not do 275,000 a year business, It only does $138,000 year. Probably by now, he could buy the business for 1000 bucks.

Posted by: mrtutto | October 16, 2008 2:28 PM

Joe the Plumber has already admitted he is a Republican. He is your typical white middle class guy who thinks that someday he will be rich, so he should vote Republican so he can keep more money if he ever gets a big income. I have news for him. With our current tax policies and income policies,he is not likely to get there. Minimum wage has not kept up with inflation. Most Americans have less disposable income than they did 8 years ago.

My two ex-husbands were both Republicans. Guess what!! Although they were smart and worked hard in white collar jobs, they never made more than $100,000 a year. Now, both are nearing retirement and they are both Democrats. Over the last 8 years, the rich have gotten way richer, while the rest of us have fallen further behind. So Joe, go ahead and buy into the Republican lie of trickle down, voodoo economics. It doesn't work!! As to redistributing the wealth, excuse me, but that has been going on for a very long time. Deal with it! It ultimately makes America stronger if there is a healthy middle class. If wealth is not redistributed we will end up with economies like much of Latin America, where there are rich and poor and little in between.

Posted by: trescharmante1952 | October 16, 2008 2:27 PM

Someone said:

"Many small business owners file the company taxes as personal. If revenues exceed $250,000 he could see a tax increase.

Response

Obviously you don't own a business and you don't know what you're talking about. I do own a business and I do know what I'm talking about.

Joe could have $1 million or $10 million in revenue. That doesn't mean his taxable income would reach the 250,000 threshold. Gross revenue is typically far greater than net taxable income.

First, if Joe buys the business from his boss, the interest on his financing will be fully deductible. Second, any capital he purchases--business property, equipment, inventory etc is depreciable.

All of his expenses for employee pay are deductible. His phone, electric and taxes frelated to the business are deductible. Any advertising is deducible. Any taxes, licenses, fees and permits are deductible. All of his new purchases of tools, equipment and supplies are depreciable or expensible deductions. Any insurance Joe purchases is deductible. On his personal return Joe takes either a standard deduction or files an itemized return that can carry some hefty additional deductions.

The list goes on and on.

Joe can also easily incorporate the business, take his income as profit, and avoid any social security contribution which currently runs near 15% for an unincorporated small business owner. If he has any kind of substantial income as a small business owner, his accountant/tax preparer will advise him to incorporate, both to reduce his overall tax rate substantially and to limit his personal liability arising from the business.

Now it's possible that the business could be so incredibly successful that doing all the basic things any small business owner does, Joe could end up with a taxable personal income greater than 250,000. If that happens, why are we horrified and frightened for Joe. Joe will be fine with a huge income like that.

As a small business owner, I promise you that Joe will have much more serious headaches to contend with than the problem of what to do if he ends up with a net taxable income of more than $250,000/yearly.

Posted by: PaulJ | October 16, 2008 2:27 PM

I've got news for you, Joe.

You ARE making a fool of yourself.

Why? Because by your own measure, you would not have higher taxes under Obama, but there you are, too ignorant to grasp that fact.


.

Posted by: julieds | October 16, 2008 2:27 PM

Hey OldAtlantic. You ask a lot of stupid questions. Here some for you. Have you been able to get your head out of your ... yet? Or is it still stuck where the sun don't shine?

Posted by: MickyD1 | October 16, 2008 2:27 PM

***Here’s the real story here….

Obama comes up to this guy's neighborhood, this guy asks a tough question, Mr. Eloquence then "taps dances the question" (as well put by Joe), Obama gets hit over and again about it during the debate last night, WAPO and left-wing bloggers panic, WA PO, left-wing bloggers, and Obama sycophants proceed to attack the questioner.

Got it. You must be processed, vetted, and certified by the MSM and other various Obama supporters before asking Mr. Obama any “legitimate” question.

Posted by: impeachtheonedotcom | October 16, 2008 2:27 PM

Don't think WaPo supports socialism but the Bush Republicans sure do!

Posted by: Hoffmann1 | October 16, 2008 2:27 PM

I bet that tard wishes he weren't so bright, ha.

"As soon as I make it rich, I'm going to need all that extra money. That's why I'm voting for McCain in '08. He's the only one who's going to protect my imaginary income."

*This message paid for by the Street People for John McCain

Posted by: eff-o-dee | October 16, 2008 2:26 PM

I'm really confused. First we're told he's buying a business making 280K, and Obama admits he'll be slightly worse off under the Democrats. Didn't he want to buy a new truck, which he can set against taxable profits? So despite being wealthy (in many people's minds) he won't be any worse off under Democrats. Now the Repubs are saying 'oh, no- that's his turnover, not profit.' In which case this guy's going to vote to pay MORE tax, after all. Now we hear he's not a plumber? So Joe the plumber/non-plumber will/won't pay more tax. Glad that's clear.

Posted by: bostonlincs | October 16, 2008 2:26 PM

As a lower middle class member Joe would benefit more from Obama's policies than McCain's.
But Joe is a victim of the right wing media owned by the very people that would benefit from McCain's plans.
These media organizations successfully scared him and others enough to vote against their own interest.
The driving power of the Republican party is still fear. (Terrorists, WMD, Bailout?)


Posted by: disposable007 | October 16, 2008 2:25 PM

Joe: Take it from a small business owner of 18 years, the past 8 years our business has steadily gone down hill. We laid off employees and cut corners every way possible. The trickle down economics of the Bush administration...now McCain policy has squeezed out the middle class and they now have no buying power and small businesses are suffering! The Bush/McCain trickle down economics has created trickle up poverty. Vote for change! Joe, wake up! Free the middle class! Vote for Obama

Posted by: Maria14 | October 16, 2008 2:25 PM

Damn. Joe the Plumber is a tax dodger huh? Even the majority of illegal aliens pay their fair share of taxes for the most part. The Joe is a pathetic republican patsy.

Posted by: Lalalu | October 16, 2008 2:25 PM

No doubt McCain got this moron from Fox News. I bet he's an O'Reilly fan club member.
The shady unlicensed contractor type is just what I'd expect from McCain/Palin.
He'd probably like to be licensed. He's just not bright enough to pass the exam.

Posted by: norcalworm | October 16, 2008 2:25 PM

Who cares about Joe Schmo?.......this campaign is all over.........but for the final vote tally in November.......

Move on people....it's 4 years of a Democrat in the White house ..and 60 in the Senate....

Being an Independent , what this means to me is a new President who is not a mental midget.....and a VP who is not a War Criminal making Halliburton rich....

Posted by: unc1dmo | October 16, 2008 2:23 PM

This is the typical LIBERAL(insert LIAR) response.

You are more concerned about if the guy is regulated than you are if Obama steals from him and gives to an unproductive
miscreant.

Posted by: dnfsmth | October 16, 2008 2:23 PM

Joe the Plumber isn't making nearly enough to even hit the amount that would be affected by Obama's tax increase. Small businesses also get tax INCENTIVES, which would benefit him if he actually had enough to buy the business. Since he's related to Charles Keating of the Keating 5 fame, who's connected to McCain in nefarious ways and McCain's wife and father in law in illegal ways, it seems more than likely he was a plant, particularly when he admitted he was called and asked by some unnamed person to be there. I wonder just who that was, or to what possible organization that person belongs?

It's also a cinch, given Joe's answers, that he'd NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS consider voting for Barack Obama. He's one of those classic conservative types: remember, he stated that he HATES SOCIAL SECURITY AND THINKS IT'S A TERRIBLE PROGRAM. HE THINKS IT SHOULD BE DONE AWAY WITH FOR HIS SON'S SAKE, OR DIDN'T ANY OF YOU CATCH THAT ONE? That's the most virulent kind of Republican, anti-people strain of thinking in that party.

Joe represents part of the ignorant masses who vote Republican either because they don't know any better or because they're too brainwashed to realize they're voting against their own self interests. His mind was closed long before he reached grade school, as evidenced by the answers he gave to the press this morning. It's scary that John McCain would use him as an example of a typical, average American anything.

Posted by: agrippamom | October 16, 2008 2:23 PM

@Old Atlantic

Keep earning that RNC paycheck!! You will keep more of it after Jan. 20. But give us a break, even McSame does not believe that BS. Put it on loony tune right win thread that will appreciate it!

Posted by: adhardwick | October 16, 2008 2:23 PM

Joe the unlicensed plumber asked Obama about starting his own business yet he has no right to have his own company. And because he is unlicensed he cant be a small business owner. If and when he votes McCain and McCain comes into office and raises joe's taxes, hope he gets what he wanted.

Posted by: peejdoming22 | October 16, 2008 2:23 PM

Joe the plumber doesn't really know what he is talking about. He seems to be just a frightened man who buys the McCain scare tactics. What a waste of time! But it is kind of scary that McCain would use such a person to forward his agenda of lies and fear. McCain's cynicism knows no bounds. First Sarah, the dim bulb, and the "tough guy" Todd (who could be the defacto president if McCain was to be elected) and now Joe, the plumber. Please John grow up!!

Posted by: MickyD1 | October 16, 2008 2:23 PM

Joe is a tool and a Republican plant. He is related to Charles Keating by marriage. He does not work as a plumber, his family owns a septic system company. Joe and his wife maxed out in donations to one of Phil Gramms Political Action Committees. Joe does not make any thing close to 250,000 dollars a year, as is the case with 90% of the rest of the lying Republican scum bags who are to stupid to understand the policies that have brought this economic destruction. "Trickle down" means giving the rich everything and then letting them piss on you. "Share the wealth?" How about just paying their fair share? Once again the malevolent reprobates that are the Republican party have destroyed the American economy, they do it every time! "How many times do you have to get hit over the head with a before you figure out who's doin' the hittin'"

Posted by: mightytightywhity | October 16, 2008 2:22 PM

Well I am not a registered electrician either.
But I am an electrician, having served in the Navy as one for 6 years and in Industry for 20.

When Jo gets to that tax bracket he will hire more people and spread the wealth.
Just as I have done.

Whether it’s the kid that pulls the wire or helps prep the next copper pipe.
Whether it’s the landscaper, carpenter, pool boy or pole dancer.
People in this bracket pay other people to do work.

Reduce this bracket through over taxation and less people will be working.

Posted by: rexreddy | October 16, 2008 2:22 PM

Say it ain't so, Joe!
McCain makes a fool of himself again! Joe the plumber will actually get a break with Obama's plan, he just doesn't realize it. Once again John McCain tries to grab a spotlight and run with it.
The spotlight is now on a tired old clown and his bimbo cheerleader. How sad.

Posted by: tommyd60 | October 16, 2008 2:22 PM

Did Bill Ayers edit or write part(s) of Obama's books? Did Ayers see Obama's book drafts before 1995? Did Ayers meet Obama c. 1981 to 1983 in New York when they lived
within a couple blocks of each other? Were they part of the same radical circles in New York as well as Chicago in the 1980's? Did Ayers then get Obama into Harvard and get funds for Harvard for Obama?

Posted by: OldAtlantic | October 16, 2008 2:22 PM

There's a reason Obama was playing defense all night last night. If your policies are fullproof, you don't have to defend them, and if you know what you're talking about, generally that makes it a lot easier. Last night McCain schooled Obama, it was simple, it was clear. The media is heavily biased and it's obvious. It would take a complete idiot to think that Obama did well last night. I just hope America isn't influenced by the media and can make up their own mind, give McCain a fighting chance, and protect our country from being led by an inexperienced child.

Posted by: guitar_fender_jesus | October 16, 2008 2:21 PM

When you increase the taxes on business you increase the taxes on everyone because businesses are just going to increase the cost of their products or decrease expenses by laying people off. So, we cannot afford to increase anyone's taxes.

Posted by: MyView49 | October 16, 2008 2:21 PM

McCain cannot do anything right!!
What a jerk!

Posted by: ok4u | October 16, 2008 2:21 PM

WaPo supports Obama's desire to push our country further into depression. These socialist tactics will cause more layoffs. Get it through your head.

Posted by: djred19678 | October 16, 2008 2:21 PM

It's great that we have the Washington Post and the other mainstream media to look out for us. I'm getting ready to remodel my kitchen. Just think, I may have hired Joe the plumber to relocate the pipes. Thanks to the media, I know he doesn't have a license.

Too bad they don't scrutinize certain political candidates with the same zest. They're all basically giving the green light to the unqualified, socialist presidential candidate Hussein Obama by brushing all negative news, radical associations, etc. aside.

Posted by: NObama | October 16, 2008 2:20 PM

Was Joe the plumber a setup by McCain to to spoof Obama? Well, it could very well be. McCain could've sent Joe the plumber to talk to Obama so that he could use it for the debate. Otherwise how did McCain know what Joe's job was or his name was? It was a causal talk between Obama and Joe and the sound bites were not even used in any news before the debate.

McCain wanted a theme so that he could talk about the middle class people. So they said all middle class folks are Joes.

Palin to Biden: Can I call you Joe?
Palin again: Joe six-pack.
McCain: Joe the plumber.
The real Joe in McCain's campaign is not a middle class man. He is John McCain's brother Joe McCain. Joe McCain had been making some noise the past few days saying the people who are running McCains campaign are not letting the real McCain shine.

McCain probably thought he could catch Obama off guard and that Obama will not remember Joe the plumber. You should watch the expression of surprise on McCain's face when Obama actually remembered talking to Joe the plumber and even remembered what he told Joe.

Overall McCain came out as pathetic and angry.

Posted by: JimFargo | October 16, 2008 2:20 PM

Unbelievable! Freaking unbelievable! You waste all this time trying to discredit some guy in Ohio . . . all the while forgetting the fact that Obama said:

"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too. My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

This IS punishing someone's success! How is it not? You work hard to make a good life and then the government comes along and steals your money to give it to lazy low-lifes.

THIS IS SOCIALISM!

PEOPLE! FREAKING WAKE UP!

McCAIN / PALIN 2008!

Posted by: Whatever_Dude | October 16, 2008 2:20 PM

Morena77,

Nice response!
“My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.”

That's the real Obama... Marxism at it's best. Ayers would be proud!

Posted by: tbastian | October 16, 2008 2:20 PM

stoneaglewolf

The $250,000.00 treshhold for taxes is not on gross business income, it is on net income, after all expenses and after all deductions, including personal deductions (i.e. mortgage interest, etc.). Very few plumber do that well. If Joe doesn't know that, he has no business going into business for himself.

Posted by: dcwsano | October 16, 2008 2:20 PM

Liberals love to ignore things. Did any of you pay attention to Obama's response? He wants to take more money away from ANYONE who makes $250,000 and "spread the wealth". Who cares if Joe is a plumber or not. Obama is a Marxist. But that's probably what most of you like about him.

Posted by: jmd4883 | October 16, 2008 2:19 PM

"Joe the Plumber" is going to own a pumbing business without an license? I had to get my CPA license prior to starting my firm. It is also interesting to find out the Joe does not always pay his taxes. It is pretty clear to me that Joe like 90% of my 400 tax clients will be much better off under the Obama plan than the McCain plan.

Posted by: bradcpa | October 16, 2008 2:19 PM

OLDATLANTIC, You need to do a cleanse for your body and mind.

Posted by: blueonblue | October 16, 2008 2:19 PM

As it turns out, Samuel Joe Wurzelbacher is a registered Republican according to Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections – no surprises there. He also has good reasons to be touchy about taxation as he also owes taxes to the State of OH

LUCAS COUNTY COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
J. BERNIE QUILTER, CLERK
700 ADAMS STREET
TOLEDO, OHIO
MONETARY AMOUNT: $1,182.98
DEPT OF TAXATION STATE OF OHIO
Defendant 1:
WURZELBACHER SAMUEL J
30 DERBYSHIRE RD
TOLEDO, OH 43615

Sure he's not a registered plumber but the kicker really is that his name is spelled incorrectly in the voter registration database. That means if the Republican party manages to succeed in their voter suppression drive in OH and exclude everyone with an inaccurate voter registration then Joe the Plumber’s vote would not be counted.

Posted by: carguy1 | October 16, 2008 2:19 PM

This is absolutely unbelievable. Even if this guy was a plant, did ANY of you idiots hear Obama's answer? THAT is the issue here. And if he indeed was a plant? I say brilliant on the part of the Republicans. Maybe the only way to make The Almighty One spew his truth IS to trick him into it.

Posted by: mgoose326 | October 16, 2008 2:18 PM

Joe is also a tax cheat, with 2 tax liens filed against him- one of which is still outstanding. He has McCain talking points down cold. I smell a Nixon- I mean Karl Rove dirty trick.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight/

Posted by: lisainbuffalo | October 16, 2008 2:18 PM

This is not about Joe himself. It is about the question and how Obama answered it.:
“My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.”

This is just a summary of Obama's agenda.

Posted by: morena77 | October 16, 2008 2:17 PM

McCain really knows how to pick em! No surprise that Joe wasn't veted before McCain decided to make him the poster boy for his latest game-playing tactic to take the focus off real issues. One plus is that Joe does fit right in with the 6-pakers that are attracted to Sarah! That's a real plus for her, but does little to help McCain crawl out of the hole he has dug for himself.
It's amazing that a guy that's been around for so long to show such poor judgment. Maybe age is a factor after-all?

Posted by: inewsmaster | October 16, 2008 2:17 PM

The usual GOP con job, slanting, exaggeration, phony setups, partisan nonsense. Honest discourse is dead, replaced by sound bites and manipulation. Karl Rove did that for us. Thanks, Karl.

Posted by: yogi11 | October 16, 2008 2:17 PM

Joe the plumber is a McCain plant who is not even a licensed plumber. If anyone believes that he has enough money to buy a 275,000 dollarr business, I have a bridge to nowhere to sell them. Sorry Joe is a fraud. Stay tuned.

Posted by: mrtutto | October 16, 2008 2:16 PM

I have one thing to say about Ayers, Joe the Plumber, Verizon/AT&T cell phone towers, etc...

YAAAAWWWWWWWNNNNN.

Can we get back to the REAL issues now please?

Good god, you can tell we live in a country that loves "Survivor," Jessica Simpson and WalMart. The inane, ridiculous and meaningless has become more popular than substance and intelligence.

Posted by: JMGinPDX | October 16, 2008 2:16 PM

Again, texas78230 , you are spouting class warfare and hatred. Raising taxes to stick it to the man is a mistake. If companies get a tax break they hire more workers, give better pay and benefits. Afterall, compnaies want to succeed and grow their business not be stagnant. Pocketing the money and keeping it doesn't help them in the marketplace at all.
Wow, my boss makes $400,000 a year so I want to stick it to him, take his money..he is rich, he makes his money off of my back.. that EVIL MAN. He gives me a good paying job, provides healthcare,401K with match and he wants to grow his business. Small business owners reinvest in their companies their profits.

Igues we tax the heck out of him, he takes more oney to keep the same standard of living, no employees get a pay raise, he cuts 401K matching, powers healthcare benefits and 10% get laid off. Oh how we are better off in this case.... we stuck it to him. We taught him. We made him suffer.

Where is all of the MARXIST dialouge coming from?

Posted by: tbastian | October 16, 2008 2:16 PM

Redistribution of wealth platform by McCain is the same policy middle class had to endure for 8 years -- do we want to continue the redistribution of wealth to CEOs, oil companies, the wealthy under McCain? Under Bush we had redistribution of wealth from the top down putting more money in the pockets of the wealthy and less money in the pockets of middle class -- it didn’t work then and it won’t work for McCain. We have the current economic crisis as proof that eight more years of McCain’s Top Down Redistribution of wealth policy doesn't work. If that is the type of administration you want (which I'm sure those making over 250,000 do), than vote McCain.

Posted by: steveeyes | October 16, 2008 2:15 PM

John the Clueless

John McCain's jaw hung open when the truth about the Obama health care "fine" was explained. McCain tried to describe how the small businessman would be fined under Obabma's plan, only to have the details explained that would in fact exempt the plumber. I loved the incredulous question from McCain in response to Obama's reply of the cost. "Zero?!" Better do his homework nextime.. if there ever is another nextime.

There were some moments of interest in the debate, but the overwhelming impression was McCain's futile attempts to "get" Obama, rather than stick to answering the questions. Both avoided some issues, but McCain's obvious strategy fell flat.

The Born Again Maverick once again displayed the earlier definition of that word: a lost calf.

Posted by: EmperorWatcher | October 16, 2008 2:15 PM

In the company of idiots....

First of all, why are you people so interested in discrediting this guy you have never met nor ever will. He never said that he was a licensed plumber and he doesn't need to be. He never said he made 250,000 a year. He said he wants to buy a company valued at 250,000. Which means that grossing 250,000 allows Joe to be paid a salary of about 45,000. So yes Obamas' plan will effect the middle class because it is very easy to own a company that grosses over 250,000 a year. So quit being so hateful(Media) and quit believing this press crap and lastly don't believe what I say... Find out for yourself.

Posted by: stoneaglewolf | October 16, 2008 2:15 PM

It doesn't matter how much the tax rate is if the economy tanks and your job is gone and your savings are wiped out.

I'd rather have a good job in a good economy with a slightly higher tax rate than have no job in a rotten economy with zero taxes.

Think 2000 v 2008.

But maybe that concept is too complex for some folks.

Posted by: nodebris | October 16, 2008 2:14 PM

I'm confused by the article. If "he's "not even close" to making the kind of money that would result in higher taxes, what is he talking about? Is he simply mistaken in his complaint about Obama's plan? Why did they waste most of a 90-minute Presidential debate talking about him when there are so many real issues they could have covered instead?

Why does he "hope I can get my message out there"? What is his message?

Why does he hope he's "not making too much of a fool of (him)self"? Has he or anyone objectively compared his situation under McCain's and Obama's proposals?

And if he does make over $250,000, shouldn't he be patriotic enough put "Country First" and share some of that wealth? For the vast majority of us, that is a heck of a lot of money to be whining about.

Posted by: wdjohns1 | October 16, 2008 2:14 PM

JOE THE PLUMBER or JOE the REPUBLICAN?

I wouldnt be surprised if he was hired by the McCain campaign or at least volunteered his time to ask Obama that question. This all seems very suspicious: that McCain's campaign would jump all over one person's question at his opponents rally. Does McCain's campaign follow everything that happens at Obama's stops? And how nice that Joe is such an upstanding guy? I've never seen a plumber that looks that clean.

Posted by: purpletatoe | October 16, 2008 2:14 PM

Redistribution of wealth platform by McCain is the same policy middle class had to endure for 8 years -- do we want to continue the redistribution of wealth to CEOs, oil companies, the wealthy under McCain? Under Bush we had redistribution of wealth from the top down -- it didn’t work then and it won’t work for McCain. We have the current economic crisis as proof that eight more years of McCain’s Top Down Redistribution of wealth policy doesn't work. If that is the type of administration you want (which I'm sure those making over 250,000 do), than vote McCain.

Posted by: steveeyes | October 16, 2008 2:13 PM

OK, so he isn't licensed. That matters...why?

Granted that Obama's tax changes would not affect Joe in his CURRENT status, but that doesn't answer the concern he raised: how will the tax changes affect his future goals? I don't see anything wrong with him asking about that. He may be misinformed, but I didn't think Obama's answer to him was very helpful, and talking about "spreading the wealth" is downright socialism.

Posted by: EnjoyEverySandwich | October 16, 2008 2:13 PM

So let me get this straight, the Washington Post thought it was extremely important to fully vet Joe the Plumber within a few hours, but not so important to even to do a mediocre job in vetting Barrack Obama over a period of a couple of years.

Posted by: BGuardian | October 16, 2008 2:12 PM

You can't lie to American people in today day and age. we all know Joe's a McCain supporter. He went to the rally and dreamup a scenario just so McCain has a talking point on the final debate. American people are smart than that to be fooled by liars.

Posted by: freeblue | October 16, 2008 2:12 PM

Yep, Joe the Plumber is Rich, so far he paid $1035.00 to McBush Campaign. Wonder why he does not disclose his VOTE

Posted by: Lalalu | October 16, 2008 2:11 PM

Someone, please send this link to Joe: http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smallbusiness/small_biz_taxes_factcheck.smb/index.htm.

Now the truth comes out; Joe is a dreamer. Hopefully his dream will come true, but it sounds as if that is a long way off. He might start that business before Barack's eight years are up, but, even if he does, it is far, far more likely that it will fail in the first five years (about 50 percent of start-ups fail by then)than put him in one of the top two tax brackets. Given that Joe hasn't even taken the initiative to become licensed, why would he assume he has what it takes to be a successful business man; what are his chances of getting credit to start a business in these hard times? Taxes are the least of his problems. I think McCain has tied his star to a Joe Sixpack that sits around the tavern exchanging gripes and fantasies with the other patrons. John has done a poor job of vetting again.

Posted by: csintala79 | October 16, 2008 2:11 PM

A Rush Limbaugh operative. Smoke and mirrors.

Posted by: Hoffmann1 | October 16, 2008 2:10 PM

samcla wrote "I think Joe is confusing revenue, profit and taxable income. Joe''s revenue is 278K--not his profit. He has salaries, benefits, costs for running business (including paying loans) to deduct."

Republicans make a similar error when they claim we have the highest business tax rate in the world. True . . . if you ignore all the credits, loop holes, and breaks in our extremely complex tax code. After all those are taken into account, we have one of the lowest *effective* tax rates on business.

Basically, I guess Republicans have trouble with the concept of net v. gross. It's looking pretty clear like economics isn't their strong suit.

Posted by: nodebris | October 16, 2008 2:10 PM

Oldatlantic- you are a loon. If you believe the nonsense you wrote- you are worse than a loon.

Posted by: silverspring25 | October 16, 2008 2:10 PM

If you are making the kind of money needed to be "hurt" by Obama's tax plan then you're really not hurting much at all. Looks like to we have someone who wants a free ride because he just happens to make more money than 95% of Americans. I say this in the event this guy isn't a total fraud.

Posted by: texas78230 | October 16, 2008 2:09 PM

The company he works for had $130,000 in sales last year.

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_cc5ny2n

He would get a tax break from Obama's plan!! Who is this idiot?

I won't be surprised in the least to hear that was a setup. After all, wasn't it Fox News that just happened to be on the scene to capture the exchange between Obama and Joe?

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/13/obama-plumber-plan-spread-wealth/

Posted by: pca67 | October 16, 2008 2:09 PM

wow very interesting http://www.jaiderbertoli.com

Posted by: jaiderbertoli | October 16, 2008 2:08 PM

Dear pgiaquinto,

Joe the Plumber is not a Moron. He asked a question that he has every right to ask. I am concerned your tax plan will hurt me. He wants to buy the compnay he works for. That might put him in the $250,000 category. Many small business owners file the company taxes as personal. If reenues exceed $250,000 he could see a tax increase.

he raised a good question... is $250,000 the magic number? What if $100,000 is the magic number... or $42,000. Make no mistake Obama will tax you more one way or the other. Raising taxes on ANYONE right now is a mistake. To campaign and run on it is something I can't believe you support. Class warfare and envy is no way to run a country.

I am not rich and don't make anywhere near $250,000 so I guess I should be happy Obama will stick it to the man. But, lets be real. I work for a small compnay. If my boss, the owner, gets a tax increase he is still going to make the same amount if money at the end of the day. It is the little guy who takes it up the backside. In the end, the little guy loses with this plan.

Posted by: tbastian | October 16, 2008 2:07 PM

WaPo investigates Joe the Plumber but not Obama the Candidate.

Where was Obama born, show real long form birth certificate?
Was Obama a citizen of Indonesia as AP photo shows?
Was Obama adopted by Lolo Soetoro?
What name was he born under? How many times changed?
Did he make an affirmation of US citizenship after age 18?
Did he get an Indonesian passport after age 18 and use it to travel to Pakistan in 1981?
Did he carry drugs from Pakistan to US, was that why he used the Indonesian passport?
Did he turn down the clerkship that Judge Abner Mikva offered in 1991 because he couldn't pass the FBI background check because he wasn't a US citizen?
Did he get legal help from friends at Harvard law in 1991 on the above and that is why he asked all his classmates at Harvard Law including Law Review not to give out any info?
What year did he first meet Bill Ayers?
Who got Obama into Columbia and HLS?
Who paid for Obama at HLS?

Posted by: OldAtlantic | October 16, 2008 2:06 PM

Katie Couric interviewed Joe the plumber and he is a Republican who spouts all the Republican talking points like the off shore drilling mantra. He makes less than $250K and would not pay more under Obama's plan. For a key debate McCain used one of his own supporters to act as a prop. This is typical McCain theatrics and when you pull away the curtain- it is all smoke and mirrors. McCain is going down for good reason.

Posted by: jeffl240 | October 16, 2008 2:06 PM

I think Joe is confusing revenue, profit and taxable income. Joe''s revenue is 278K--not his profit. He has salaries, benefits, costs for running business (including paying loans) to deduct.

Even at a net of 250K+ he will only pay marginally more taxes on the amount above 250K (and less on the below). On every net 10K above 250K (after all those deductions) he will pay $300. The rest is taxed the same as before.

This is NOT the working capital of his business. It is his profit taking after whatever he invests in his business.

If Joe's profit really is 278K, he will only be taxed more on 28K and only $870/year or 2 dollars and 30 cents a day. That's a missing latte, so Starbucks may whine ;-)

The $2.30/day will be part of what Joe''s customer's get and can use to hire him, but most of their extra spending dollars will come from the CEO''s of Big Oil. They have a much higher net income than Joe will ever have, and will have to give up a few more lattes.

Joe's business (and Joe) will fare better under Obama''s proposed tax system than they do now as the people who have a net income of over 250K a year will pay a little bit more on what is above 250K and a bit less on the amount below. For many it will be a "wash", but when your net income is in the millions, you will have to share with Joe the Plumber.

I think Joe is mislead and misinformed, and the lack of critical journalism makes things worse.

Posted by: samcla | October 16, 2008 2:06 PM

Joe the plumber isn't a real plumber. Joe the plumber isn't registered to vote. Joe the plumber is a relative of Charles Keating's son-in-law, Joe the plumber has the IRS after him for nonpayment of taxes in 2007. Joe the plumber confronted Mr. Obama as Fox News cameras just "happened" to be walking by.

Joe the plumber isn't a McCain plant. Yeah right. I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you too.

Posted by: GenuineRisk | October 16, 2008 2:06 PM

Joe the plumber is related by marriage to Charles Keating. Over the next few days, I expect that more facts will be uncovered. Eventually, it will be revealed that Joe was a paid operative for the GOP. Karl Rove is very clever at pulling off dirty tricks.

Posted by: newdoggie | October 16, 2008 1:59 PM

Not surprising that the fear-mongering going on w/ the GOP would be based on misrepresentation of facts. Ho, hum!

Posted by: boesc | October 16, 2008 1:58 PM

Joe Wurzelbacher not even a licensed plummer. Now I hear he isn't registered to vote.

Man this is disappointing if this was all staged.

Posted by: TheDiplomat | October 16, 2008 1:54 PM

Interesting from TNR: "It's pretty ridiculous that somebody who earns more than 99% of Americans should become a stand-in for the average working man. The picture becomes a little more clear in this interview with Katie Couric, in which Joe the Plumber admits he doesn't actually earn $250,000 a year:
COURIC: Well, he supposedly will raise taxes only on people who make over $250,000 a year. Would you be in that category?
WURZELBACHER: Not right now at presently, but, you know, question, so he's going to do that now for people who make $250,000 a year. When's he going to decide that $100,000 is too much, you know? I mean, you're on a slippery slope here. You vote on somebody who decides that $250,000 and you're rich? And $100,000 and you're rich? I mean, where does it end? You know, that's - people got to ask that question.

In the same interview, he says that Barack Obama did a "tap dance... almost as good as Sammy Davis Junior." But Joe the Plumber is the one who lied about the central premise of his question to Obama. So the whole premise that made Joe the Plumber the icon of the debate turns out to be made up. I don't think reporters should start investigating the details of his life or anything. But if he's going to freely admit that he just made up the one fact that gave his story any political salience, then that's pretty relevant."--Jonathan Chait

Posted by: osullivanc1 | October 16, 2008 1:54 PM

I feel sorry for the guy. He's going to be chewed up, spit out and forgotten. McCain's people thought they were being clever, but in the end they'll look like bumbling fools.

Posted by: Dawny_Chambers | October 16, 2008 1:50 PM

Joe the unlicensed plumber is either a complete and utter moron,incapable of understanding even the simplest math problem, or he is a mccain campaign plant. If this yahoo is not bright enough to figure out that he is much better off under Obama's tax plan than under McCain's plan, then it is no surprise that he can't pass the plumbers exam. FLUSH............

Posted by: pgiaquinto | October 16, 2008 1:49 PM

Why is there a professional photographer at his home during the "surprise" mention on the debate. And then he makes more interviews than Sarah Palin does a scant 10 hours after said surprise, the whole time echoing familiar talking points.

I am skeptical.

Posted by: lapsedatheist | October 16, 2008 1:46 PM

Joe the Plumber hates taxes so much he hasn't paid any:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/16/123539/11/77/632515

Posted by: marSF | October 16, 2008 1:45 PM

Well this is a learning moment for Joe, and hard working Americans just like him.

Lesson #1: If you earn less than $250,000 after your deductions you'll get a TAX CUT.

Lesson #2: Republican political operatives, and political advertisements LIE OUTRIGHT.

Lesson #3: The candidate that ACTUALLY has planned to help YOUR best interests is OBAMA. That's right - healthcare, LOWER taxes, NEW JOBS from the US becoming the manufacturing leader in green energy technologies, respect and help for our veterans... its OBAMA.

Vote Obama/Biden for your own best interests!

Posted by: onestring | October 16, 2008 1:44 PM

How convenient of WaPo to leave out the FACT that he has a tax lien against him. He doesn't want to pay taxes, PERIOD! Oh and also thinks social security is socialism. Why is this guy getting so much free and false publicity?!

Posted by: NMP1 | October 16, 2008 1:44 PM

JOE THE PLUMBER WOULD GET A TAX CUT UNDER OBAMA'S PLAN!

What plumber makes over $250,000 a year?

Posted by: jelow | October 16, 2008 1:43 PM


Thank you, WaPo for this vetting process of Joe D. Plumber.

If it's okay with everyone, I'm probably not going to take political advice from a guy who's not licensed in his trade.

BTW, did you see the ending last night?

http://images.derstandard.at/2008/10/16/1220631450981.jpg

Who looks more "Presidential"?

Posted by: tony_in_Durham_NC | October 16, 2008 1:42 PM

Joe has the American Dream. Why would he dream and strive to make more only to have it taken from him? In order to get city, state, and other general contractor work, Joe the Plumber will be hiring union plumbers. They get their health insurance through the union. It is deducted from their paychecks. Union plumbers cost Joe a lot more money than scabs, but a lot less money in law suits because they know how and why to do things the right way. Joe now knows that neither one of these guys have a clue and he is really, really worried.

The bank bailout worries Joe, too, because he knows that the population has just had more wealth taken from them and they won't be able to afford to hire him.

http://ewebsmith.com/Finance/playboys.html

Posted by: websmith1 | October 16, 2008 1:40 PM

McCain/Palin

Obama/Biden 08

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 16, 2008 1:39 PM

Yep, Joe the plumber

He charged me $200 to fix a pipe and didn't even clean up after himself.

Materials: less than $5
Time: Ten minutes

I think Joe can afford to pay a little more tax (even if it was true)

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 16, 2008 1:38 PM

McCains Best Moment Last Night During The Debate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmKTOWrsGCQ


McCain Rally Goes Bad, With Bad Lyrics, Booing People leaving.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPOpP89oMik

Posted by: pastor123 | October 16, 2008 1:35 PM

Typically misinformed wingnut. Probably gets his information from the McCain campaign.

Posted by: zukermand | October 16, 2008 1:23 PM

McCaint really loves plumbers...

Even Watergate Plumbers....
Hmm, yeah - let's talk about criminals who hate the American ideals of freedom and democracy

What McCaint didn't mention his pallin' around with G. Gordon Liddy.
Now a conservative radio talk-show host, Liddy spent more than 4 years in prison for his role in the 1972 Watergate burglary.

That was just one element of what Liddy did, and proposed to do, in a secret White House effort to subvert the Constitution.

Far from repudiating him, McCaint has embraced him....
Liddy didn't just have a role: he was the chief operative for Nixon's White House "plumbers" unit, who, along with E. Howard Hunt, masterminded the break-in of the Democratic National Committee headquarters in the Watergate hotel in 1972.

Following prison, Liddy started a countersurveillance private security firm.
The company filed for bankruptcy in 1998. He entered talk radio in 1992, and is now syndicated in 160 markets as well as Sirius and XM satellite radio.

While right-wing blogs continue to fume over Obama's connection to the former anti-war radical, little has been written about Liddy and McCaint, who appear to be much better friends. Liddy has donated $5,000 to McCaint's political campaigns since 1998 -- sending 25 times as much money to the Arizona senator than Ayers did to Obama.

Liddy also greeted McCaint as "an old friend" when hosting the candidate on his talk radio show, McCaint gushed at the "pleasure" of his company...

McCaint said this of Liddy...
His "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."

Ugh........

What would those principles be...???

The ones that told Liddy it was fine to break into the office of the Democratic National Committee to plant bugs and photograph documents?

The ones that made him propose to kidnap anti-war activists so they couldn't disrupt the 1972 Republican National Convention?

The ones that inspired him to plan the murder (never carried out) of an unfriendly newspaper columnist?"

McCaint is a sleasebag, full to bursting with neo-con crapola.....

Posted by: AlexP1 | October 16, 2008 1:18 PM

JOE KNOWS WHEN THE PUBLIC IS BEING SCAMMED

Fact is, Joe Biden is well aware that there is a political dirty tricks operation at work 24/7 in this campaign. Joe has excellent inside knowledge, based on his many years as an advocate for those who are charged with protecting America -- not subverting the political process.

These political operatives spam web sites with political invective, attack those whose posts don't comport to their world view, and they are quite capable of staging phony events and situations.

Such stagecraft is in the tradition of Donald Segretti, Lee Atwater, and, of course, Karl Rove, who very well may retain his role as a political puppetmaster even while he pontificates on Fox News.

What's more troubling is the possibility that these forces also are capable of more nefarious interference in the political process, using various exotic and powerful "instrumentation."

ARE THE McCAIN-PALIN CROWD AGITATORS THE SAME STORMTROOPERS WHO DO THIS:

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/american-gestapo-state-supported-terrorism-targets-u-s-citizens


WHAT IF McCAIN-PALIN'S STRATEGY IS AIMED NOT AT VOTERS, BUT AT THE APPARACHIK?

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/mccain-palins-fellow-traveler-insinuations-what-if-u-s-security-forces-agree

OR members.nowpublic.com/scrivener

Posted by: scrivener50 | October 16, 2008 1:01 PM

****WAPO - you truly have no shame and have no qualms in showing how deeply in the tank you are for Obama.****

What a shocking, shocking revelation you've uncovered here. So Joe works for a plumbing company, does plumbing work all day, every day, gets paid for it and works for a plumber who has a licence and best of all, Joe hopes (along with the owner) to take over his boss' business, but somehow now he can't call himself a plumber because he himself (though the business he works for is) a plumber? I mean, this is beneath contempt to impugn a guy who was approached by Omaba. He's not a political operative or politician. He's just some guy that Barack tried so desperately to sway and got caught in a series of flubs by a simple tough, honest question from a true blue collar worker. Nice work WAPO!

Posted by: impeachtheonedotcom | October 16, 2008 1:00 PM

You mean the McCain campaign didn't vet 'Joe the Plumber"??? JtP was going to be the centerpiece of his 'comeback' debate with Obama and the campaign didn't even check to see if he was a licensed plumber? Did they know that he's not even registered to vote?

After the lack of vetting of Sarah Palin came back to bite them, you'd think they would have learned their lesson. Is this anyway to run a campaign? Do you want these guy to be running the country? These are Bush league mistakes. America deserves better.

Posted by: thebobbob | October 16, 2008 12:49 PM

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