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McCain, Bush and 'Meet the Press'


Sen. John McCain appears on "Meet the Press'" with Tom Brokaw on Oct. 26, 2008, in Waterloo, Iowa. (Alex Wong/Meet The Press)

By Michael D. Shear
Sen. John McCain acknowledged that he and President Bush share a "common philosophy" as Republicans but the GOP's presidential nominee insisted that he is his own man, appearing on NBC's "Meet the Press" for the first time in more than nine months.

In the half-hour interview nine days before the election, McCain asserted that he has bucked his president's policies and his party on spending, Iraq and climate change, a record that he said proves his distance from the unpopular chief executive.

But confronted by host Tom Brokaw with his own words from the show in June, 2005, McCain said: "Do we share a common philosophy of the Republican party? Of course. But I'm still up against my own party."

Those words gave Democratic Sen. Barack Obama another opening Sunday morning in his continuing effort to link McCain and Bush in the eyes of voters who will go to the polls a week from Tuesday.

"Just this morning, Senator McCain said that he and President Bush 'share a common philosophy.' That's right, Colorado," Obama said in prepared remarks for a rally in Denver. "I guess that was John McCain finally giving us a little straight talk, and owning up to the fact that he and George Bush actually have a whole lot in common."

Obama has been pressing that case for days now, airing television commercials that use McCain's own words bragging that he had supported Bush 90 percent of the time. He also seized on the news Saturday that Bush and his wife, Laura, had cast their ballots for McCain.

On Meet the Press, Brokaw noted that McCain had blasted Bush in a recent interview. He then played part of an interview from three years ago.

"The fact is that I'm different, but the fact is that I've agreed with President Bush far more than I have disagreed," McCain said at the time. "And on the transcendent issues, the most important issues of our day, I have been totally in agreement and support of President Bush."

The June, 2005 interview concluded with McCain stating that "I strongly disagree with any assertion that I've been more at odds with the President of the United States than I've been in agreement with."

A somewhat flustered-looking McCain asserted the areas that he had differed with Bush, saying "I was the harshest critic of the failed strategy in Iraq" and saying that "I've supported action to address climate change since 2000 and said we've got to do something. Sharp disagreement there."

But he seemed to wave aside Brokaw's question about the apparent contradiction between his statements.

"I know how it is on this show. You show various segments and comments that we make thousands of. And I understand it. But the fact is that I am not George Bush," McCain said. "Do we share a common philosophy of the Republican party? Of course. But I'm still up against my own party."

McCain remains one of the most frequent guests on Meet the Press, having been a regular during his senate career. But the appearance Sunday was the first for McCain since he became the nominee of his party.

Brokaw confronted McCain with polls that showed him far behind Obama nationally and in battleground states. McCain dismissed them, saying he sees a greater intensity for his campaign than he's ever seen for a presidential candidate.

"I choose to trust my senses as well as polls and the enthusiasm at almost all of our campaign events is at a higher level than I've ever seen," he said. "I've been in a lot of presidential campaigns, usually as the warm-up act or one of those things. I see intensity and I see passion."

He came to the defense of his vice presidential nominee, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, calling her a "role model for millions and millions of Americans." And he defended Palin's accusation that Obama is offering socialist policies to the country.

"All I know is that Senator Obama's record is very clear," McCain said. "He started out in the left hand lane of American politics and has remained there. He has been judged the most liberal United States senator."

McCain had one cringe-worthy moment during the interview. When Brokaw mentioned former Secretary of State Colin Powell's endorsement of Obama, McCain said that he had been endorsed by five former secretaries of state.

He then tried to list them, but could only get to four.

"I'm very very happy to know that five former secretaries of state who I admire enormously -- Henry Kisssinger, Jim Baker, Larry Eagleburger, Al Haig, uh, eh, uh."

He tried once again before giving up: "Jim Baker, Henry Kissinger, Al Haig, Larry Eagleburger, and one other." A few moments later, after Brokaw had moved on, the fifth name came to McCain.

"George Schultz. George Shultz is the other one. George, I'm sorry I left you out to start with," McCain said. "George Shultz is one of the greatest secretaries of state in history."

Posted at 2:36 PM ET on Oct 26, 2008  | Category:  Sunday Talkies
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Read below and guess who said it...

"But I believe that when you really look at the tax code today, the very wealthy, because they can afford tax lawyers and all kinds of loopholes, really don't pay nearly as much as you think they do when you just look at the percentages. And I think middle-income Americans, working Americans, when the account and payroll taxes, sales taxes, mortgage pay -- all of the taxes that working Americans pay, I think they -- you would think that they also deserve significant relief, in my view..."

"So, look, here's what I really believe, that when you are -- reach a certain level of comfort, there's nothing wrong with paying somewhat more. But at the same time, that shouldn't be totally out of proportion. There's some countries such as Sweden where it doesn't pay anything to work more than six months a year. That's probably the extreme.

But I think the debate in this country is more about tax cuts rather than anything else. And frankly, I think the first people who deserve a tax cut are working Americans with children that need to educate their children, and they're the ones that I would support tax cuts for first."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/21/1577609.aspx

Yep, John McCain in 2000, the Original Socialist.

Posted by: nowanna3 | October 27, 2008 10:39 PM

From "Meet the Press":

SEN. McCAIN: No. I'm disappointed in General Powell, but I'm very, very happy to know that five former secretaries of state who I admire enormously -- Henry Kissinger, Jim Baker, Larry Eagleburger, Al Hague -- Jim Baker, Henry Kissinger, Al Hague, Larry Eagleburger and one other, and over 200 retired flag general --generals and admirals -- are supporting my campaign. I'm very proud of their support.

MR. BROKAW: Senator, we opened today with a -- how you're doing in Iowa. The Des Moines Register has endorsed ...

SEN. McCAIN: George Shultz. George Shultz is the other one.

MR. BROKAW: George Shultz, right.

SEN. McCAIN: George, I'm sorry I left you out to start with. George Shultz, the great--one of the great secretaries of state in history. Anyway, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Posted by: MarkInAustin | October 27, 2008 4:08 PM

Brokaw did NOT tell McCain George Shultz's name. Unless you are saying he wrote it down and showed it to him so that the viewers would not know. Are you claiming to have 100% perfect recall?

I doubt that Brokaw even knew ONE of McCain's Secretary of State supporters.

Posted by: MarkInAustin | October 27, 2008 2:58 PM

I watched John McCain sqirm on his seat during his Meet the Press with Tom Brokaw last night. The old man's memory is on its last lap. When Tom Brokaw mentioned abou Colin Powell's endrsement for Obama, McCain said he has 5 secretary of states backing him. But the problem was he couldn't even remember Goeorge Shultz'z name. Finally Brokaw had to tell him the name. Also there were many instances where his age was showing its signs. He was not coherent in making full sentences, he often will start a sentence and wander off with a shrug onto another sentence. With Sarah Palin who had a problem making sense of any sentences and McCain forgetting half of what he wants to say, this duo is a disaster.

Posted by: JimFargo | October 27, 2008 2:40 PM

Democrats for John McCain and Sarah Palin in 2008

Posted by: hclark1 | October 27, 2008 2:14 PM

According to one poster, "the media" will win this election for Obama. Gosh - I voted early and there wasn't a member of "the (dreaded) media" standing next to me with a gun at my head! We have a choice and once we are in that voting booth no one tells us how to vote!

Of course, elections can still be stolen as they were in 2000 and 2004, so we need a landslide to prevent that from happening again.

Posted by: Utahreb | October 27, 2008 10:55 AM

No offense, but now the current 'mantra' "USE YOUR BRAIN,VOTE MCCAIN" OMG!

What is Alaska's rating for education/graduation in our country? Use your brain, vote Palin?

Posted by: sasha2008 | October 27, 2008 10:35 AM

Posted by: nononsense3

"Muslims and blacks are going to celebrate if Obama gets elected but other groups in America will look on. I blame the media for putting words in the mouth of voters"

Several things here warrant my two cents worth. First, your xenophobia about muslins is showing. Second, your blatant racist tone is blaring. Third, your commentary suggests any media type that is for Obama is somehow "bad".

What about the stream of compost that comes from the mouths of these media types: O'Reilly, Hannity, Limbuagh, and Fox news in general. This group overtly tries to sway public opinion. Does that make them "bad" also?

You are just typical of the Republican fog that currently exists. You can only see that the other side errs, misjudges, or misleads.

You would have more credence if you acknowledged that media manipulation, whether conservative or liberal is just as reprehensible.

Posted by: Thatsnuts | October 27, 2008 9:22 AM

Both Jack Welch and I are supporting McCain and we feel the most important articles in the NY Times yesterday were the lead article on Increasing Unemployment/Corporate Layoffs in the United States and the follow up article on the Job Disaster in Rhode Island. Rhode Island is suffering with 8.8% unemployment and, not coincidentally, is the state ranked 50th for business tax treatment by the nonpartisan Tax Foundation. Neighboring Massachusetts is ranked 34th, with 6.1% unemployment. Two states with no state corporate tax, South Dakota and Wyoming , have 2.8 and 3.0% unemployment. The conclusion of the NYT article is that State officials in RI are rethinking and planning to alter their business tax policy. Do you think this article has implications in the coming election? Jack and I do!
Jack said so on This Week with George Stephanopoulos this morning. He said that he moved GE out of RI because of their state corporate taxes! Do you think we should increase or decrease corporate taxes in the current recession (hint-Herbert Hoover increased them)?

Why are you listening to a candidate who wants to turn all 50 states into Rhode Island?

Lowering business taxes leads to JOB creation...$900 is a cheap price to pay for a job (Obama wants to give the middle class a $1200 annual tax cut and McCain wants to give them a $300 cut). Just ask the people of Rhode Island.

Posted by: thecannula | October 27, 2008 8:27 AM

Five names is a lot to remember for some people. Does a US President need to do any better?

Posted by: frodot | October 27, 2008 8:07 AM

BUSH/MCCAIN THE REAL SOCIALISTS

We've barely survived eight years of the most secretive US Government in history...SOCIALIST!

At every turn, BUSH's administration has tried to usurp as much power for the exectuve branch they could...SOCIALIST!

They illegally loaded the Justice Department with unqualified, religious extremists.......SOCIALIST!

The spied on US citizens, engaged in torture of prisoners, and sold our beloved Consititution down the river with the "Patriot Act"...SOCIALIST!

BUSH proposes and MCCAIN signs the biggest corporate welfare bailout in history!...PURE SOCIALIST!

MCCAIN was just another BUSH puppet.

OBAMA '08
He aint' perfect
But he ain't a socialist Republican
And that's all that counts!

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 27, 2008 2:52 AM

Michelle Obama has a DUI? http://www.duihelpguide.com

Posted by: pastor123 | October 27, 2008 1:58 AM

Mccain seem so desperate and in denial,I think he is losing it. But,Mccain didn't it to himself. Mccain does not qualify for President because he has demostrated lack of leadership and judgement on his part. Mccain has no clear view and ideas where he wants to take this country in the future. All Mccain saying is tax credits, tax breaks,Obama is some kind of socialist and then of course there is "Joe Plummer",hockey mom,Joe Sixpack,pit bull with lipstick,maverrick,staight talk express,drill baby drill and reformer. For me and I'm sure for many Americans when Mccain speaks, we feel a disconnected and uninspired. Mccain has used too many gimmicks in his campaign and it has became Ringling Brothers Circus and has brought the quality level down in running his campaign,especially when Palin was picked for VP,that made it even worse. After Palin was picked for VP,Mccain started to run really sleazy ads against Obama,like running ad against accusing Obama for calling Palin a pig,which was a lie! After Mccains foul and disgusting campaign against Obama,you want my vote. I don't think so! Mccain has his lost honor,dignity and the respect of many americans to win this election. MCCAIN YOU BLEW IT!

Posted by: valjeanharden | October 27, 2008 1:07 AM

Mccain seem so desperate and in denial,I think he is losing it. But,Mccain didn't it to himself. Mccain does not qualify for President because he has demostrated lack of leadership and judgement on his part. Mccain has no clear view and ideas where he wants to take this country in the future. All Mccain saying is tax credits, tax breaks,Obama is some kind of socialist and then of course there is "Joe Plummer",hockey mom,Joe Sixpack,pit bull with lipstick,maverrick,staight talk express,drill baby drill and reformer. For me and I'm sure for many Americans when Mccain speaks, we feel a disconnected and uninspired. Mccain has used too many gimmicks in his campaign and it has became Ringling Brothers Circus and has brought the quality level down in running his campaign,especially when Palin was picked for VP,that made it even worse. After Palin was picked for VP,Mccain started to run really sleazy ads against Obama,like running ad against accusing Obama for calling Palin a pig,which was a lie! After Mccains foul and disgusting campaign against Obama,you want my vote. I don't think so! Mccain has his lost honor,dignity and the respect of many americans to win this election. MCCAIN YOU BLEW IT!

Posted by: valjeanharden | October 27, 2008 1:07 AM

Mccain seem so desperate and in denial,I think he is losing it. But,Mccain didn't it to himself. Mccain does not qualify for President because he has demostrated lack of leadership and judgement on his part. Mccain has no clear view and ideas where he wants to take this country in the future. All Mccain saying is tax credits, tax breaks,Obama is some kind of socialist and then of course there is "Joe Plummer",hockey mom,Joe Sixpack,pit bull with lipstick,maverrick,staight talk express,drill baby drill and reformer. For me and I'm sure for many Americans when Mccain speaks, we feel a disconnected and uninspired. Mccain has used too many gimmicks in his campaign and it has became Ringling Brothers Circus and has brought the quality level down in running his campaign,especially when Palin was picked for VP,that made it even worse. After Palin was picked for VP,Mccain started to run really sleazy ads against Obama,like running ad against accusing Obama for calling Palin a pig,which was a lie! After Mccains foul and disgusting campaign against Obama,you want my vote. I don't think so! Mccain has his lost honor,dignity and the respect of many americans to win this election. MCCAIN YOU BLEW IT!

Posted by: valjeanharden | October 27, 2008 1:07 AM

Mccain seem so desperate and in denial,I think he is losing it. But,Mccain didn't it to himself. Mccain does not qualify for President because he has demostrated lack of leadership and judgement on his part. Mccain has no clear view and ideas where he wants to take this country in the future. All Mccain saying is tax credits, tax breaks,Obama is some kind of socialist and then of course there is "Joe Plummer",hockey mom,Joe Sixpack,pit bull with lipstick,maverrick,staight talk express,drill baby drill and reformer. For me and I'm sure for many Americans when Mccain speaks, we feel a disconnected and uninspired. Mccain has used too many gimmicks in his campaign and it has became Ringling Brothers Circus and has brought the quality level down in running his campaign,especially when Palin was picked for VP,that made it even worse. After Palin was picked for VP,Mccain started to run really sleazy ads against Obama,like running ad against accusing Obama for calling Palin a pig,which was a lie! After Mccains foul and disgusting campaign against Obama,you want my vote. I don't think so! Mccain has his lost honor,dignity and the respect of many americans to win this election. MCCAIN YOU BLEW IT!

Posted by: valjeanharden | October 27, 2008 1:07 AM

Mccain seem so desperate and in denial,I think he is losing it. But,Mccain didn't it to himself. Mccain does not qualify for President because he has demostrated lack of leadership and judgement on his part. Mccain has no clear view and ideas where he wants to take this country in the future. All Mccain saying is tax credits, tax breaks,Obama is some kind of socialist and then of course there is "Joe Plummer",hockey mom,Joe Sixpack,pit bull with lipstick,maverrick,staight talk express,drill baby drill and reformer. For me and I'm sure for many Americans when Mccain speaks, we feel a disconnected and uninspired. Mccain has used too many gimmicks in his campaign and it has became Ringling Brothers Circus and has brought the quality level down in running his campaign,especially when Palin was picked for VP,that made it even worse. After Palin was picked for VP,Mccain started to run really sleazy ads against Obama,like running ad against accusing Obama for calling Palin a pig,which was a lie! After Mccains foul and disgusting campaign against Obama,you want my vote. I don't think so! Mccain has his lost honor,dignity and the respect of many americans to win this election. MCCAIN YOU BLEW IT!

Posted by: valjeanharden | October 27, 2008 1:07 AM

Mccain seem so desperate and in denial,I think he is losing it. But,Mccain didn't it to himself. Mccain does not qualify for President because he has demostrated lack of leadership and judgement on his part. Mccain has no clear view and ideas where he wants to take this country in the future. All Mccain saying is tax credits, tax breaks,Obama is some kind of socialist and then of course there is "Joe Plummer",hockey mom,Joe Sixpack,pit bull with lipstick,maverrick,staight talk express,drill baby drill and reformer. For me and I'm sure for many Americans when Mccain speaks, we feel a disconnected and uninspired. Mccain has used too many gimmicks in his campaign and it has became Ringling Brothers Circus and has brought the quality level down in running his campaign,especially when Palin was picked for VP,that made it even worse. After Palin was picked for VP,Mccain started to run really sleazy ads against Obama,like running ad against accusing Obama for calling Palin a pig,which was a lie! After Mccains foul and disgusting campaign against Obama,you want my vote. I don't think so! Mccain has his lost honor,dignity and the respect of many americans to win this election. MCCAIN YOU BLEW IT!

Posted by: valjeanharden | October 27, 2008 1:07 AM

Mccain seem so desperate and in denial,I think he is losing it. But,Mccain didn't it to himself. Mccain does not qualify for President because he has demostrated lack of leadership and judgement on his part. Mccain has no clear view and ideas where he wants to take this country in the future. All Mccain saying is tax credits, tax breaks,Obama is some kind of socialist and then of course there is "Joe Plummer",hockey mom,Joe Sixpack,pit bull with lipstick,maverrick,staight talk express,drill baby drill and reformer. For me and I'm sure for many Americans when Mccain speaks, we feel a disconnected and uninspired. Mccain has used too many gimmicks in his campaign and it has became Ringling Brothers Circus and has brought the quality level down in running his campaign,especially when Palin was picked for VP,that made it even worse. After Palin was picked for VP,Mccain started to run really sleazy ads against Obama,like running ad against accusing Obama for calling Palin a pig,which was a lie! After Mccains foul and disgusting campaign against Obama,you want my vote. I don't think so! Mccain has his lost honor,dignity and the respect of many americans to win this election. MCCAIN YOU BLEW IT!

Posted by: valjeanharden | October 27, 2008 1:07 AM

McCain campaign reaches a new low in their Obama character attacks spreading a new lie. http://www.TheObamaPlan.com

Posted by: pastor123 | October 27, 2008 12:52 AM

McCain campaign reaches a new low in their Obama character attacks spreading a new lie. http://www.TheObamaPlan.com

Posted by: pastor123 | October 27, 2008 12:34 AM

McCain voted for Bush policies between 90-95% of occasions as a Senator in seven and a half years. This demonstrates McCain is far more a Bush clone than a "maverick."

Vote for McCain if you want at least four more years of Cheney-Bush policies.

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | October 26, 2008 11:40 PM

nonosense3-

Your name is misleading.

Obama looks good on media because he's doing good things. They're doing everything they can to make McCain look good. After all, corporate advertisers have the same bosses as corporate lobbyists, and they both prefer republican, easy money to legitimately earned wealth.

If you want to blame someone for making McCain look bad, blame McCain.

Don't worry. Republicans are much better cheaters than democrats. The republicans will lose, but there's a good chance they'll take the offices anyway, like they did in 2000, and 2004.

After all, do you think they'll let democracy stand in the way of money?

Posted by: rooster54 | October 26, 2008 10:34 PM

Muslims and blacks are going to celebrate if Obama gets elected but other groups in America will look on. I blame the media for putting words in the mouth of voters. You have seen Katie Couric, David Letterman, SNL etc... If we get sold, the media is who you blame because they pretty much decide on the outcome.

Posted by: nononsense3 | October 26, 2008 10:22 PM

McCain's reference to Hoover, is another example of the frequently employed Karl Rove tactic of accusing your opponent of the thing your doing, so that, when you get caught, the accusations of both sides will cancel each other out. Protectionism was among the least of things Hoover did wrong. He was a typical republican free market ideologue for the most part, who led us into a depression the same way Bush is doing now.

I have actually engaged in the physical act of drilling for oil, but almost all of the profit went to people who never engaged in the real process of production. We're not asking for "redistribution of wealth", we're asking for the wealth we created that was taken from us by people who didn't create it, to be returned. These republican, scaredy-cat alarmists believe their own paranoid, manipulative distortions.

McCain is a protectionist. He's protecting the over-privileged from having to earn their living legitimately like the rest of us do.

Posted by: rooster54 | October 26, 2008 10:20 PM

McCain does not in any way promote diplomacy. Take an example of what happen today Sunday October 26, 2008. One- today marks McCain capture some 40 years ago as a POW from Vietnam (incredible life experience) and second- today marks a disappointing day for him as an American. Why?

Today on Meet the Press Tom Brokaw asked Senator McCain if he agreed and to comment on a video clip of Rush Limbaugh’s remarks to Colin Powell’s endorsement of Senator Obama. Limbaugh’s, claims that Powell’s choice is completely based on race. McCain sheepishly said "no" to it and quickly move on to cite his endorsements from various Secretaries of States and Generals.

The point here is that he failed as a potential future leader of this country the United States of America to denounce such language, the train of "that one" thought and along with many other civil problems this country faces as well as having the opportunity to express his view of a life long experience on such a complex important topic to the American people. He has life experience that without question that should have profoundly resulted in him to be able to say something better then a “NO”.

Imagine Palin answering that question? Oh Boy!!

He dismissed the question an important question which required a more complete, comprehensive and thoughtful answer then just "NO", diplomacy starts at home.

McCain additionally made other comments that he should be taken to task on as well.

Just like trying to solve the problems of the world they need to start by solving the problems at home, the home of the American People.

McCain is not ready to lead this nation, or solve the problems of the United States of America his only interest is his own historical ego.

For those that think some of us are being hard on McCain - we are not - we are being hard on ourselves. THIS TIME WE WANT TO MAKE THE BETTER CHOICE. The last thing we need is irresponsible conduct, poor behavior, bad choices and a misguided outlook.

Barack Obama, has demonstrated his abilities in managing, promoting and overseeing his bid for the Presidency in a conclusively winning way. Winners focus, they play within the rules, they have grace and a lot of heart and as a former recon marine of the 70’s and successful financial advisor. I would rather have Obama watch my back then McCain (age being equal) any day of the week. The game of tomorrow is not how tough you are its how smart you are.

Obama/Biden 2008

Posted by: JoseMidwestHeartland | October 26, 2008 10:15 PM

McCain has been tested.......and he failed.

Even with his sacrificial military service he would be lucky to out an "E" for effort. He destroyed five U.S. aircraft, and only one of those was in battle. Anyone without a high ranking father would have been discharged way before he caused that much damage. He finished at the bottom of his class in the Naval Academy, and might not have graduated at all without the same connection. When he went on that fateful bombing mission, getting captured was the worst thing he could have done because he would be broken by torture, and successfully pressured into giving up vital strategic information to the enemy.

Like Bush Jr., he's been a son of privilege, whose been able to joke, charm, sentimentalize, and shirk his way out of accountability.

Even with his token female trophy running mate, he's really just part of the "good old boy" system, with a sentimental narrative sacred enough to intimidate us out of realistically assessing its value.

Posted by: rooster54 | October 26, 2008 9:57 PM

Both Jack Welch and I are supporting John McCain and we feel the most important articles in the NY Times today were the lead article on Increasing Corporate Layoffs in the United States and the follow up article on the Job Disaster in Rhode Island. Rhode Island is suffering with 8.8% unemployment and, not coincidentally, is the state ranked 50th for business tax treatment by the nonpartisan Tax Foundation. Neighboring Massachusetts is ranked 34th, with 6.1% unemployment. Two states with no state corporate tax, South Dakota and Wyoming , have 2.8 and 3.0% unemployment. The conclusion of the NYT article is that State officials in RI are rethinking and planning to alter their business tax policy. Do you think this article has implications in the coming election? Jack and I do!
Jack said so on This Week with George Stephanopoulos this morning. He said that he moved GE out of RI because of their state corporate taxes! Do you think we should increase or decrease corporate taxes in the current recession? (hint-Herbert Hoover increased them)

Posted by: thecannula | October 26, 2008 9:52 PM

I'm glad McCain is behind. We sure don't want another low brain power in the White House, 594th out of 599 grads.

Posted by: spike3 | October 26, 2008 9:37 PM

Because the McCain campaign has stood for different things at different time it is not difficult to see that they have no plan to increase jobs that has not already proved to be a failure. So when McCain talks about the economy he talks about tax cuts which will not work in an economy which has its credit markets frozen. Then of course we have seen that lowering the federal tax on the investor class has not worked in the past eight years.

There is an interesting discussion of the changing narrative of the McCain campaign. McCain only started to talk about the economy after he was forced by his lack of success in avoiding the subject. See:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/magazine/26mccain-t.html?
Is that the kind of man we want for president who focuses on everything but the economy? John McCain is not the right man for this time, even though he was in 2000.

Posted by: Gator-ron | October 26, 2008 9:24 PM

McCain pretty much summed up why voters are rejecting his candidacy.

Posted by: pjkiger1 | October 26, 2008 9:04 PM

McCain said he specifically was NOT defending Palin.

Posted by: JakeD | October 26, 2008 8:56 PM

"I know how it is on this show. You show various segments and comments that we make thousands of. And I understand it.
>>>>>McShame does not like when others apply their campaign tricks to them

He came to the defense of his vice presidential nominee, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, calling her a "role model for millions and millions of Americans." And he defended Palin's accusation that Obama is offering socialist policies to the country.
>>>>Which millions McShame is he referring to...? Perhaps sociopaths, who can lie, and lie with no shame... Palin builds castles in the sky and then lives in them also... In regards to the Socialist agenda, McShame is a Socialist also-didn't he approved the bail out. Also, his mortgage rescue plan could be misconstrued as Socialist.

Posted by: LMM48 | October 26, 2008 8:33 PM

vaney:

How about calling him "McSenile" and all his supporters "racists"?

Posted by: JakeD | October 26, 2008 7:35 PM

One of Alaska's 3 major newspapers endorsed Barack Obama today. One of the things written, regarding the VP pick, was:

"Few who have worked closely with the governor would argue she is truly ready to assume command of the most important, powerful nation on earth."

Another Alaska paper today, offered the following Palin assessment:

"By now the world knows Palin is an expert at swishing around, color coordinated, with her makeup and mooseburger and mean-spirited commentary. We can only hope people realize she's a pretty atypical Alaskan, one who is simply skimming the gravy off our hard-earned Alaskan mystique to mix with her varnished nonsense."

For the highlights of both pieces, and the links to the sources:

http://scootmandubious.blogspot.com/2008/10/latest-alaskan-press-not-pretty-for.html

Posted by: scootmandubious | October 26, 2008 7:27 PM

"Why do people feel the need to insult the opposition?"

McCain is asking us for our trust and it is worthwhile to remember how that trust has been used and abused in the past. I don't think its necessarily insulting to remember that the favors that John McCain did for Charles Keating and the favors that he got in return. And its not insulting to look at his campaign staff, which is filled with lobbyists (including manager Rick Davis and his ties to Fannie and Freddie). I would have no problem with asking McCain about these things in person, and which more of the media would do so.

Posted by: mvaney | October 26, 2008 7:19 PM

"Johnny McSenile..."

Posted by: Bob22003 |

___________________________________________

Why do people feel the need to insult the opposition? Especially a man who has served this country for 40 years. It's no better than the attacks McCain is running against Obama.

Feel free to disagree with his policies or decisions (which I do), but don't use the anonymity of the internet to say things you wouldn't say to someone's face.

Of all the so-called 'attack' ads Obabma ahs run, they only deal with McCain's positions. Not a one about his character. As it should be, and another reason he's winning, big.

Posted by: ajs8 | October 26, 2008 6:17 PM

"Johnny McSenile..."

Posted by: Bob22003 |

___________________________________________

Why do people feel the need to insult the opposition? Especially a man who has served this country for 40 years. It's no better than the attacks McCain is running against Obama.

Feel free to disagree with his policies or decisions (which I do), but don't use the anonymity of the internet to say things you wouldn't say to someone's face.

Of all the so-called 'attack' ads Obama has run, they only deal with McCain's positions. Not a one about his character. As it should be, and yet another reason he's winning, big.

Posted by: ajs8 | October 26, 2008 6:17 PM

thecannula:

You continually forget to point out that you will benefit from lower corporate taxes.

Not even Barrack Obama is planning to raise corporate taxes and lowering them is a go idea when you can be sure that lowering taxes will help corporations that will create or keep jobs that are in the US. So a governor can always be sure that by helping businesses he is helping the job situation in his state. You are well aware that indiscriminate lowering of federal corporate taxes will help Exxon's operation of job creation overseas. Obama unlike McCain wants to stimulate job creation at home.

Your posts seem to be from an intelligent person yet you keep misstating the value of McCain's policies to the average voter. This is what is so bad about McCain compared to Obama. With Obama the tax savings goes directly to the company that creates jobs. Stop trying to support Washington lobbyists and insiders and confusing ordinary people about what McCain is doing.

Posted by: Gator-ron | October 26, 2008 6:16 PM

thecannula:

You continually forget to point out that you will benefit from lower corporate taxes.

Not even Barrack Obama is planning to raise corporate taxes and lowering them is a go idea when you can be sure that lowering taxes will help corporations that will create or keep jobs that are in the US. So a governor can always be sure that by helping businesses he is helping the job situation in his state. You are well aware that indiscriminate lowering of federal corporate taxes will help Exxon's operation of job creation overseas. Obama unlike McCain wants to stimulate job creation at home.

Your posts seem to be from an intelligent person yet you keep misstating the value of McCain's policies to the average voter. This is what is so bad about McCain compared to Obama. With Obama the tax savings goes directly to the company that creates jobs. Stop trying to support Washington lobbyists and insiders and confusing ordinary people about what McCain is doing.

Posted by: Gator-ron | October 26, 2008 6:16 PM

When I watched the interview, I thought McCain seemed kind of foggy, especially when he had to try a couple of times to remember the names of the 5 former Secretaries of State who have endorsed him. Leave it to Brokaw, however, to let the Senator off the mat at that precise moment by launching into an inappropriate pangyric for McCain as a Viet Nam prisoner of war. Some "liberal media."

Posted by: ejs2 | October 26, 2008 6:11 PM

For those of us who once admired McCain, it is a bit sad to see that he has invited into his orbit many former Bush partisans and has descended into the abyss of right-wing politics during this campaign. McCain has basically returned to his 1980s political roots when he was a down-the-line supporter of Reagan. During the 1990s, once Republicans seized power on Capitol Hill and stifled most progressive elements of the Clinton Administration's agenda he seemed to veer against the far-right impulses of most Congressional Republicans and demonstrated a more centrist approach. Now he has turned his back on that centrist approach to embrace the far right in his rhetoric, in his Vice Presidential nominee, and in his choice of campaign staff.

McCain does indeed appear exhausted, physically, mentally, ideologically, and politically. Perhaps he'll be able to turn himself into a senior Senate statesman in the coming years as his political career winds to a close.

Posted by: OHIOCITIZEN | October 26, 2008 5:55 PM

Everyone knows that Bush And Mccain shares common philosophy watch funny videos http://www.frizle.com

Posted by: roverfind | October 26, 2008 5:52 PM

Grant_x:

More than 7 Democrats are going to vote for McCain (if I were a betting man, I'd include former President Bill Clinton and the junior Senator from New York ; )

Posted by: JakeD | October 26, 2008 5:33 PM

McCain seems tired -- physically, emotionally and mentally. Granted, a presidential campaign is exhausting... but so is the actual job, should he win. If McCain is struggling to keep his mind and wits sharp right now under this level of stress, how will he cope when he's been President for two or three years and he's had to endure the rigors of the job for that long, as well as being that much older? His temperament will suffer, his decision-making abilities will suffer, his ability to travel and meet with other world leaders will suffer... I'm sorry, but McCain is not a spry 72 year old. He is not capable of handling the Presidency at this point in his life. 8 years ago, sure, but not now. And imagining a "President McCain" at 75 or 76 years old... that's just downright scary.

Posted by: DogBitez | October 26, 2008 5:31 PM

McCain is endorsed by some of the worst Secretaries of State in the 20th century and he thinks that's an asset? Let's see, there's Henry "light at the end of the tunnel" Kissinger, Al "I'm in charge here" Haig, and Larry "the Serbs aren't committing atrocities" Eagleburger, who held the office for what, 5 minutes?

Shultz and Baker certainly performed well in the office, but the point, Johnny McSenile, is that as REPUBLICANS they and the others would generally have been expected to endorse you. It's another thing altogether when Colin Powell, a lifelong Republican, endorses a Democratic presidential candidate.

This is the kind of confused thinking that leads someone to select a no-talent like Sarah Palin to run for VP with him.

Posted by: Bob22003 | October 26, 2008 5:27 PM

"McCAIN PATH TO VICTORY: PALIN WITHDRAWS OVER ALASKA PROBE WOES, REPLACED BY ROMNEY."
___________________________________________

You're dreaming. McCain's devout miltary bent, while a benefit as a POW hero, is a liability in this campaign. He stands by something right, wrong, or whatever, as long as it's perceived to be of HIS value system.

He actually made the statement that Palin had more experience than Obama AND Biden, COMBINED. That's when I knew he had lost the election. Stubborn refusal to admit mistakes, and change course. Still have respect for the man, but the personal magnetism and gravitas gap with Obama is NOT anything he could have learned/become. He simply got 'out-Presedentialed'.

Posted by: ajs8 | October 26, 2008 5:22 PM

Something struck me, the other day, and I continue to be impressed by it. Despite all predictions, this election is not, in fact, about Bush. He's a non-entity in it all.

That's fairly remarkable. And against the odds, the McCain/Palin campaign has managed to suck entirely on its own. Sure, the Democrats wanted to paint McCain (accurately, when it comes to nearly all actual policy positions) as the second coming of Bush. But McCain resisted the label, and instead found ways to suck that were completely independent of his ties to Bush.

McCain: He's terrible at giving speeches, yes. His policies are dismal, and more to the point are badly elucidated -- when he's willing to talk about them at all. We know he's for the Iraq War: we don't know anything he intends to do differently, except do more of it and presume it'll all work out this time around. His choice of Palin for the number two spot was, from the standpoint of anyone not a hardcore conservative, bizarre, and smacked of the erratic, shoot-from-the-hip nature of decision making that his past detractors had warned of. His campaign managers have been vitriolic towards the press, and dismissive of the public, and as erratic as their own candidate. His vaunted surrogates have played a round-robin game of publicly humiliating themselves and their candidate (attaching himself to Phil Gramm, noted hellspawn of all that is economically manipulative and devastating, was an inspired touch.) And his behavior during this economic crisis -- making a show of tooling down to Washington to "solve" things, and having his party dissolve into chaos around him, and then rejoining his campaign with nothing "solved" at all, and things in fact much, much worse, and looking for all the world like a man who has just been pied in the face by circumstance -- has been a complete and very public fiasco. He has done his very best to manage to convince everyone that he is, in fact, not anything like presidential material. He's never looked less presidential.

Oh -- and his more impromptu surrogates, people like "Joe the Plumber" and "Tape #254 Of Sarah Palin Saying Something Crazy" and "Campaign Supporter Not Really Attacked At ATM" have added a burnt-popcorn, sideshow quality to the campaign. That hasn't helped.

So... congratulations to McCain, I guess. He managed to do the seemingly impossible -- be trailing in the election not because people were deathly tired of George W. Bush and didn't want anything to do with his party, but because people are deathly tired of John McCain, as well. And I think the award needs to be shared communally, because at all levels of the Republican Party, candidates seem to be going out of their way to make themselves similarly dislikable, out of touch, or (and this is the favorite approach) be ranting with such gusto about the incipient socialism if any of you poor cretins out there dare get better healthcare or a more stable economy that they seem, to be blunt, f---ing nuts.
.

Posted by: DrainYou | October 26, 2008 5:19 PM


"A weak economy, new tax breaks, and aggressive tax sheltering have pushed corporate income tax receipts down to historically low levels, both relative to the size of the economy and as a share of total federal revenues. According to the most recent budget projections of the Congressional Budget Office, corporate revenues will remain at historically low levels even after the economy recovers, and even if the large new corporate tax breaks enacted in 2002 and 2003 are allowed to expire on schedule."

Deficits over the next decade are now projected to be enormous in size. A joint analysis by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, the Concord Coalition, and the Committee for Economic Development projects deficits totaling $5 trillion through 2013. An analysis by Brookings economists reaches a very similar conclusion, while Goldman Sachs projects deficits totaling $5.5 trillion.[1] Despite the deteriorating fiscal outlook and the historically low corporate revenue collections we already face, Congress nonetheless seems poised to shower more tax breaks on corporations that would cause deficits to grow substantially larger over time.

Treasury Department figures show that actual corporate income tax revenues fell to $132 billion in 2003, down 36 percent from $207 billion in 2000.
As a result of these low levels, corporate revenues in 2003 represented only 1.2 percent of the Gross Domestic Product (the basic measure of the size of the economy), the lowest level since 1983, the year in which corporate receipts plummeted to levels last seen in the 1930s.
Corporate revenues represented only 7.4 percent of all federal tax receipts in 2003. With the exception of 1983, this represents the lowest level on record (these data go back to 1934).

Translation: Corporations paid only 7.4% of all tax revenues collected by the Feds in 2003 and the percentage of taxes paid by corporations to the Feds continues to decline.

Maybe soon they will pay nothing and we will all be sooo much better off.

:-)

10 more days....

Posted by: toritto | October 26, 2008 5:03 PM

McCain said he's STOOD up (not "still" up) against the GOP.

Posted by: JakeD | October 26, 2008 5:03 PM

Here's seven former republican staff, advisors, and political figures that endorse Obama.

1)-Colin Powell, Former Secretary of State under George W. Bush [247][248]
2)-Paul O'Neill, former Secretary of the Treasury under George W. Bush
3)-Scott McClellan, former White House Press Secretary under George W. Bush
4)-Charles Fried, former Solicitor General under Ronald Reagan and former McCain Campaign Advisor
5)-Ken Adelman, current member of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board; former advisor to President Ronald Reagan; former Director of the U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency; former deputy U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations
6)-Douglas Kmiec, legal counsel to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, and co-chairman of Romney's Committee for the Courts and the Constitution
7)-William H. Donaldson, former Chairman of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, appointed by George W. Bush

Posted by: Grant_x | October 26, 2008 5:03 PM

First off, I am an Obama supporter. This being said, I watched Meet The Press in it's entirety and what I saw was a tired, unprepared and sometimes confused old man. I don't really care what he said, but the way he said it convinced me that he is simply not up to the mental and physical demands of the presidency. When that White House phone rings at three in the morning, I want it answerd by someone with youth and vigour, not a tired old man who needs another three or four hours of sack time before he says something coherent.

Posted by: ThePhotogsBlog | October 26, 2008 5:00 PM

DrainYou, I hear McCain's next stunt is to complete the rocket jump across the Grand Canyon.

If he pulls it off, I'm voting for him, btw. I think we all should.

Posted by: Grant_x | October 26, 2008 4:52 PM

This post by seemstome needs repeating...

"John McCain 2000

"I believe that when you really look at the tax code the very wealthy because they can afford tax lawyers and all kinds of loopholes really don't pay as much as you think they do, when you just look at the percentages. And I think middle income Americans, working Americans, who when you count in payroll taxes, sales taxes, mortgage -- all of the, all of the taxes that working Americans pay -- I think you would also think that they also deserve very significant relief."


John McCain now

"spreading the wealth is just socialism"

What happened to this John McCain?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2JPbQOHEkY

Corporations first, Country Last"

Posted by: nowanna3 | October 26, 2008 4:51 PM

Obama has a few Secretaries of State endorsing him too. Let's see...there's Madeline Albright, Warren Christopher, and let's see...um, er, um...oh it'll come to me.


Colin Powell! That's it. Colin Powell. Colin, I'm sorry I left you out.

Posted by: Grant_x | October 26, 2008 4:50 PM

I would like to know what Mr. McCain was smoking in the Green Room? He was completely delusional regarding the polls and out of touch or “denial” on numerous other questions. I use to look at him with admiration and respect. Now I feel only pity.

Posted by: gbarra | October 26, 2008 4:43 PM

I wonder what the next McCain campaign stunt will be?


So far we've had:
-----------------------

- Ashley the Fraud

- Joe the pretend Plumber

- OMG! Bill Ayers!

- Drill, baby, drill

- Sarah the Crazy VP pick
----------------------


Am I missing any?
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03fcGelz8Hw
.

Posted by: DrainYou | October 26, 2008 4:38 PM

I saw the show. It is ok to only remember 4 of 5 names. I am sympathetic at age >55. However, I was also pleased at his honesty about his shared philosophy with Bush. That is an campaign killer. He just undid months and millions of ads. Maybe in his dimentia the truth will dribble out. He needs to back off on Palin. She is poison except for the shrinking Republican base. I enjoy her continuous displays of ignorance and fascism, although the race-baiting is tough. As for her clothes, it doesn't matter who bought, owns, or even that she doesn't wear them. She has shown her elitist tastes--betraying her disgust and disdain for Josephine the Plumber. Saks will take back the clothes, yes, even the soiled underwear, as someone said.

Posted by: axolotl | October 26, 2008 4:30 PM

Hmm, the US economy collapsed under who's watch? And you want another four years of the same idiotic economic policies?

Why are there no more manufacturing jobs? Because the Republicans sold us out to the Chinese.

Posted by: itchy2008 | October 26, 2008 4:26 PM

Here are the five former Secretaries of State who've endorsed McCain.

1.) John Hay
2.) Elihu Root
3.) Robert Bacon
4.) Philander Knox
5.) William Jennings Bryan

Note that all served in the last century and the one before that. #4 is interesting as McCain thought #4's first name was "Philanderer" thereby giving him additional cover.

Posted by: NotBubba | October 26, 2008 4:20 PM

Posted by: thecannula
...hmmm, should we raise or lower business taxes?..Vote McCain
==================================
Cannula:

Even were it that simple (direct correlation tax v employment) there is more than tax policy at stake. Like - constitutional freedoms?

It's called Democracy.
Americans are NOT stupid.

So...Boo Hoo Hoo.

Posted by: T-Prop | October 26, 2008 4:18 PM

Posted by: louismraskin
"McCain's responses on Meet The Press gives me cause to wonder if the Senator lives in Fantasy Land. His responses are delusional and speak of wishful thinking."
==================================
Sounds precisely like Bush, doesn't it:
- "War is going just fine."
- "There are weapons of mass destruction - this is why we are going in."
- "Economy is fine. This ain't no recession."
- "I am protecting our freedoms."

GOP thinks we are stupid.


Posted by: T-Prop | October 26, 2008 4:10 PM

That would be "Joe Wurzelbacher" - corrected spelling - is the grandson of one of the Keating Five.

Posted by: duffmama | October 26, 2008 4:09 PM

Total State+Fed Corp Tax Rate Unemployment

Rhode Island- 41% (9% st tax adjusted) 8.8%

South Dakota- 35% (no state tax) 2.8%

Wyoming - 35% (no state tax) 3.0%

...hmmm, should we raise or lower business taxes? I believe most middle class workers would give up the $900 difference in their tax cut between Obama and McCain for a JOB!

Vote McCain

Posted by: thecannula | October 26, 2008 4:08 PM

When is the media going to identify Joe the Plumber as being Joe Wurzelburger, the grandson of Charles Keating, of McCain's infamous "Keating Five?"

If this is true, the whole 'Joe the Plumber schtick' was an unmitigated set-up, and the public needs to know.

Posted by: duffmama | October 26, 2008 4:04 PM

....so I guess McSame can count of Little Rhody's 4 Electoral Votes?

....naah...Obama leads in R. I. by more that 20 percentage points.

....I guess they would rather suffer in Warwick than vote Republican...

...a lot of the country seems to feel that way.....

:-)

10 more days.....

Posted by: toritto | October 26, 2008 4:01 PM

Definitely McCain whether he likes it or not he is to damn old to be President and as well his health isn't that good anyway. Sarah Palin as VP is a total joke as she is totally inexperienced if anything were to happen to John McCain if he were to become President. As well John McCain should have been charged upon his release by the North Vietnamese for giving the Flight Patterns of American Bombers to the North Vietnamese which caused needless deaths, he should have been charged as a traitor to the United States but he wasn't because of who his father and grandfather
were. The only reason John McCain is where he is is because of his present wifes money as she is reported to be worth 250 million.

Posted by: george33 | October 26, 2008 3:50 PM

McCain is a true hero to appear on any show broadcast by NBC.

I am suprised that Brokaw wasn't told to stay home by the network and the network then replaced him with Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow.

Posted by: JoeJankovic | October 26, 2008 3:50 PM

McCAIN PATH TO VICTORY: PALIN WITHDRAWS OVER ALASKA PROBE WOES, REPLACED BY ROMNEY.

* She cites "family obligations"?


But he's too stubborn at this late date to recognize the strategic necessity. The GOP leadership and W. himself should assist in this force play to improve their odds and divert media attention from aggressive ground moves.

Disloyalty alone should cause McCain to pull the trigger. She's hurt him, and now it's intentional. Is McCain hen-pecked?

ARE THE McCAIN-PALIN CROWD AGITATORS THE SAME STORMTROOPERS WHO DO THIS:

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/american-gestapo-state-supported-terrorism-targets-u-s-citizens

or members.nowpublic.com/scrivener

Posted by: scrivener50 | October 26, 2008 3:41 PM

...so can McCain count on Little Rhody's 4 electoral votes? Naah....Obama leads McSame 54 % - 34 %.

I guess they would rather suffer up in Wickford rather than vote Republican.

:-)

Posted by: toritto | October 26, 2008 3:18 PM

McCain's responses on Meet The Press gives me cause to wonder if the Senator lives in Fantasy Land. His responses are delusional and speak of wishful thinking. Better yet, when Republicans are not placing blame, they are in denial. McCain can have his pick, wishful thinking or in denial!

Posted by: louismraskin | October 26, 2008 3:15 PM

The Way That We Should See McCain & Palin From Now On:
Maverick Personality Disorder: A New Diagnosis
http://tinyurl.com/5ggtte

Posted by: janawalter87 | October 26, 2008 3:03 PM

See, here's the deal; McCain's using the old tactics the Rethugs have used for years to defeat Obama. Trouble is, they're OLD! As we used to say in the Air Force, it's too late for McCain to "straighten up and fly right!"

Posted by: nwsjnky1 | October 26, 2008 2:59 PM

Leading in Job Losses, Rhode Island Struggles On
NY Times
By PAM BELLUCK
Published: October 25, 2008
JOHNSTON, R.I. — The family resemblance shared by John Hallam, his brother Arthur, and their cousin Dennis goes far beyond their ruddy features these days.
Dianne Ford says she has had no luck finding work.
All three were laid off this year from jobs they had held for more than a decade, with John losing two jobs in just the last nine months. Dennis’s 29-year-old daughter, Mary, a single mother of two, is out of work too, having lost her job at a restaurant when summer ended.

“What the hell’s going to happen to us?” asked John, 58, who drove a truck for a lumber company. “There are no good jobs here anymore.”

Or enough jobs of any kind. Rhode Island now has the highest unemployment rate in the nation, the first time the state has held that distinction in the three decades since such records have been kept.

With unemployment at 8.8 percent, Rhode Island has edged past Michigan, and every month seems to bring fresh reports of companies cutting workers, shutting divisions, closing altogether.
Saul Kaplan, executive director of the Rhode Island Economic Development Corporation, a quasi-state agency, said the situation “could likely get worse before it gets better,” adding, “ironically, we were the home of the Industrial Revolution.”

There are several reasons Rhode Island has fared so poorly in the economic crisis gripping the country.

Rhode Island also has few big companies — more than 80 percent of businesses employ fewer than 20 employees — and small employers have less reserves to withstand economic turmoil, Ms. Powell said.

Mr. Kaplan said that as the industrial jobs moved out of the state, it had become too dependent on lower wage service jobs like retail and hospitality, which he said were “very vulnerable to economic downturns.”

Many economic analysts and state officials say Rhode Island has long had a high tax burden for businesses, discouraging them from moving here. (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)...

Working to remedy the situation, Governor Carcieri has formed a tax policy committee to recommend changes. Mr. Kaplan said state and economic leaders were “moving full steam ahead to create a new economy here” to “come out of this downturn stronger than the way we went in it.”
**********

SO, AS RI RECOGNIZES THE PROBLEMS HIGH CORPORATE TAXES CREATE, ARE THE OTHER 49 STATES ABOUT TO FIND OUT THAT RAISING SMALL AND LARGE BUSINESS TAXES IN A RECESSION IS THE FORMULA FOR A DEPRESSION?

Avoid this economic disaster and Vote for Jobs- Vote McCain

A job is more valuable than the 900 dollar difference between Obama's $1200 and McCain's $300 middle class tax cut !

Posted by: thecannula | October 26, 2008 2:49 PM

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