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Palin Criticizes Robocalls

Updated 10:15 a.m.
By Juliet Eilperin
COLORADO SPRINGS -- GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin last night criticized the automated calls the Republican National Committee and her own campaign have put out linking Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama to former Weather Underground member William Ayers, even though she did not call for a halt to the controversial practice.

"If I called all the shots, and if I could wave a magic wand," Palin told her traveling press corps as she stood on the tarmac here, "I would be sitting at a kitchen table with more and more Americans, talking to them about our plan to get the economy back on track and winning the war and not having to rely on the old conventional ways of campaigning that includes those robocalls and includes spending so much money on the television ads that, I think, is kind of draining out there in terms of Americans' attention span."

"They get a bit irritated with just being inundated, and you're seeing a lot of that of course with the huge amounts of money that Barack Obama is able to spend on his ads and his robocalls also," she added, though she did not say if she had discussed her concerns with campaign officials.

Palin did not shy away from attacking Obama, however, when asked whether she and GOP presidential nominee John McCain believe that Obama's tax plan is socialist. During a rally Sunday in New Mexico the Alaska governor said the Democrat, who has proposed a tax increase for those making more than $250,000 while providing tax credits to middle and lower-income Americans, is hoping to "experiment with socialism."

"There are socialist principles to that, yes," Palin said, referring to the Democratic nominee's tax proposal. "Taking more from a small business or small business owners or from a hard working family and then redistributing that money according to a politician's priorities. There are hints of socialism in there."

Palin drew a distinction between that sort of fiscal policy and the federal government's recent move to funnel billions of taxpayer dollars into U.S. banks in the wake of the recent global financial crisis.

"I believe that there are those measures that had to be taken by Congress to shore up not only the housing market but the credit markets also," Palin said, "to make sure that that's not frozen, so that our small businesses have opportunities to borrow, and that was the purpose, of course, and that part of the bailout and the shoring of the banks."

By Web Politics Editor  |  October 20, 2008; 9:05 AM ET
Categories:  Sarah Palin  
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Next: On 'SNL,' Palin Beats Biden -- and McCain

Comments

Sen.McCain would have more credibility if the policies he is proposing had produced more growth and security these past few years. Do not try to scare Americans with your fear mongering. The economy will take time to grow, but those who labor to earn a living can no longer tolerate being squeezed
You do not know anything about socialism. You quote the lives of communist leaders and the neglect of the people under their rule. Nevertheless, you raise the specter of socialism here in the states, while the American Constitution remains in force. I have lived behind the Iron Curtain, and know what constitutes a true loss of freedom. My friends can attest to life in a socialist regime.
.http://michelle2005.wordpress.com
Never forget that we live in the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Changing the tax structure is not an endorsement of socialism. What Sen. Obama is proposing is allowing a portion of the Bush tax cuts to roll back at it had been proposed when developed. This was known as a sunset provision; it was designed to take effect if tax cuts proved to onerous on the deficit. This has been the case for many years and President Bush neglected the deficit while filling the coffers of rich individuals, to the tune of tens of thousand of dollars per year. Not all boats rose in this round of economic growth. It was a near jobless recovery, and those that were created paid much less, while cost of living soared.

Reading these comments, one would assume that these business owners had never heard of deductions. Truth be known the past six years have been filled with the lowest tax rates in the last 40 years. As such very few new opportunities have been created. Many businesses have been able to reap the greatest returns unencumbered by higher taxes, yet so few have given anything back to the community. Now you cry "I'll have to pay more, I'll lay people off." Well the rest of us have had to live with less, the past six years. Meanwhile our bills increased and our jobs went overseas. All with no thanks to the people, you propose to return to the white house!

Posted by: avanderhoven | October 20, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Cannula wrote:
"FAILED SOCIALIST EXPERIMENTS in Europe"

What planet are you from, schmuck? Have you EVER been to Europe?

-5-6 weeks vacations
-unmatched job security or transitional assistance
- housing cost assistance
-unmatched set of social protections against the vagaries of anglo-american style free-market capitalism
-national healthcare insurance accessible and affordable to all, with top notch quality medical care, at 1/3 of the American per capita healtcare costs
-free or affordable day care to 95% of children
-free, top notch public education, kindergarten through University and beyond
-Excellent comprehensive public transportation systems, including: high-speed rail, buses, streetcars, monorail, metro (subway)
-public infrastructure projects unheard of in America for more than 30 years: The Chunnel Tunnel, The Millau bridge, Loetschberg tunnel, the Dutch seawall system, etc. Even the Big Dig in Boston was done using European technology and design.
-government/business/labor coordinated or guided investment and development policies.
-with all of the above, total freedom of speech, movement, privacy, assembly, and conscience and full constitutional protections thereof, equalling or exceeding those found anywhere else in the world.

Posted by: VMR1 | October 20, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

The only one with a proven learning disability is the"notorious"flavio.

Posted by: JakeD | October 20, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Well, I think that Sarah has a learning disability or some type of borderline intellectual functioning (formerly known as boderline mental retardation). If that is so, I think that she should be proud of herself and find a job where she doesn't need the help of a manager, assistant or her husband AND where she doesn't senselessly fire people who don't support her opinions. She would make a BEAUTIFUL spokesmodel for some organization for people with learning disabilities, a PRETTY covergirl model or a SPECTACULAR actress! Sarah, make the right move and leave politics ASAP!

Posted by: tangy2008 | October 20, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

PALIN, ALBERTO GONZALEZ, JOHN SNOW, CHRISTOPHER COX, DONALD RUMSFELD AND BROWN FROM BROWNIE FAME. All these people were in their jobs to satisfy their boss's political aims and not there because of competence. I seriously doubt that we will be hearing about Ayers for all of Palin's bravado. The issue is socialism, the most recent non issue to distract the people from the failed economy which if John McCain becomes president will continue to fail. As McCain showed with his selection of Palin we can hardly expect him to choose competence over political expediency. He has attempted to inflict on this country the most serious danger he could with his choice of Ms Palin.

A McCain presidency would be all about him with confusion reigning as it did during the financial crisis. I frankly question what character defect intelligent conservatives who support Palin have since she is obviously unsuited for office and it can hardly escape their notice.

Posted by: Gator-ron | October 20, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Seems to me that if we're still undecided on the proper philosophy of taxation and the proper role of a government in national life, after our 230-year democratic "experiment", we probably never will. I mean, how many more centuries do we need to learn right from wrong?

Posted by: VMR1 | October 20, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

gov palin is still failin so now she is a takin to attackin senata mccain.

she has never been anything but a self promoting charlatan politician....she bit the hand that promoted her, when she ran she stabbed her benefactor in the back, when elected she dumoped the opros and stacked her offices with 'brownie' style loyalists, she dumped her own church for political reasons and now she is positioning herself for future campaigns by stabbing mccain in the back. she is truly vile.

Posted by: rascalofcowtown | October 20, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Sara Palin shouldn't be allowed to struggle with multi-syllabic words, such as socialism. I mean, she has enough trouble with "also", putting it every which way in a sentence.

I hope some journalist can get her to answer the the following question: "Gov. Palin, what aspects of socialism, if any, do you disagree with and why?" She could actually get rich on recording a DVD with her answer and market it to the comedy market.

Posted by: VMR1 | October 20, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 12:16 PM

There is no incentivizing not working. Tax rebates to those who have worked but not earned taxes is not an incentive not to work. Over the next nine months we need to have spending increase to stimulate the economy but that is only a short term fix. Those with the least amount of money will spend the largest portion of their rebate. Over the longer term he will have to keep tax policy at one which leads to a stable middle class. I can't say that is what he is going to do but I am quite confident that those who advise him are not interested in a return to a welfare system that was not good.

This country has changed in the past twenty years and the per cent middle class has risen. The problem is it is not sufficiently high and the emphasis on education and the reward for obtaining education must be there. Then there is rural Ohio, there must be jobs for them. Infrastructure employment is all that I know to do for them but I have faith in the quality of people who surround Obama and what they stand for and they will work for job creation for these people. I could be wrong that Obama is more of an ideologue than he has let on. But to me he seems like a pragmatist with good instincts and I know what we have is failure. More of the same will not work.

Posted by: Gator-ron | October 20, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Cannula, labor taxes are employer-paid payroll taxes, like the employer's half of Social Security and Medicare taxes. Those tend to be higher in Europe than here (partly because of government-funded health care). This study has nothing to do with progressive income taxation, which is what McCain and Obama are arguing about. BTW, progerssive income taxes have been a feature of the US scene for decades (and we haven't turned into a Gulag yet)so the debate is merely about the degree to which income tax will be progressive. Even McCain isn't advocating a flat tax.

Posted by: rhinoceri | October 20, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

inthecannula. I'm sure all of those evil axis terrorists sent him $5. Now I'm afraid...really afraid. At least he doesn't pal around with Bush and then denying he supported him. But, if he didn't deny it, that would mean he is responsible for an illegal war and the meltdown of Wall Street. That is one of McNixon's troubling traits, he believes that because he says something, that makes it true. Kinda like you.

Posted by: jgh2 | October 20, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Cannula,

Theory doesn't pay the bills. Call the gas company and explain to them why charging you more for service is regressive and socialist and hurts the economy.

You live in country that is BROKE. You're in no position to dictate terms to anybody.
So take your pile of ideology home and play with it.

It's going to take pragmatic negotiations to reform the system into solvency again.

And guess what?

Tax deadbeats who leach off those of us who pay off the world's largest debt are going to find themselves treated like the parasites they are.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | October 20, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

NOsfaratu only knows one verb (spewed) and thinks his font trick makes up for his lack of wit

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

JakeD- It's Nosfaratu to his friends(...he's lower echelon, don't let him get to you)

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

jgh2-brilliant retort- hope you gave $5 towards Michelle and Barack's Caviar Room service- I'm sure the Palestinains did!
Hey, jgh - why is your candidate proposing a tax strategy that the most economically successful Democrat President in recent history called "REGRESSIVE"? Let's have some more wisdom....

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 12:23 PM | Report abuse

jakeD esq. spewed: 'the"notorious"flavio:You're one to talk. '

Don't hurt yourself there jAKED, stretchin' your peanut like that.

"notorious" with conservadrones, like you.

Time for you to watch some more FOX NEWS and recharge your that conservadrone spew machine you call a brain.

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 20, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, Ron the only examples of Raising Taxes to the levels Obama wants to raise them come from FAILED SOCIALIST EXPERIMENTS in Europe. There are glimmers of intelligence in some of your posts- how can you fail to see that incentive is the engine of our society, to see that to hand out checks to those who currently pay no income tax is to remove their incentive to work, and to recall that the truest words ever spoke were-
Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it!

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

The weakest president in our history mumbled something about preserving democratic free markets and then shuffled back into the White House.

The Europeans were in Washington this weekend to explain how they're going to overhaul the global financial system - with or without us.

We're all leaving Las Vegas broke and hung over. And the drunk who drove us there is passed out in the back seat.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | October 20, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Now we are going to change to a discussion of Europe as if conditions and culture and strength of unions and ethnic make up of Europe has that much to do with us. The issue is and will not change we have tried using tax decreases for the wealthy and that did not create jobs. I think that it had some negligible benefit in the eighties but the real problem now is that the credit industry is not working well and needs to recover and then it needs to be better regulated so that they do not return to their previous habits. Then we need to evaluate how we are going to stimulate our economy but whatever we do there can be no jobless recoveries like we had under Bush.

Posted by: Gator-ron | October 20, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

McNixon and light deprived Pale-in need some need new ammo. Call Rush Limbergh and see if he can manufacture some for you. Oh yea. The best he can come up with is to tell you what Michelle Obama had for supper. Things are really getting desperate for the conservatives. At least they are saving money by showing the same tired ads over and over...

Posted by: jgh2 | October 20, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

ARE THE McCAIN-PALIN CROWD AGITATORS THE SAME STORMTROOPERS WHO DO THIS:

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/american-gestapo-state-supported-terrorism-targets-u-s-citizens


WHAT IF McCAIN-PALIN'S STRATEGY IS AIMED NOT AT VOTERS, BUT AT THE APPARACHIK?

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/mccain-palins-fellow-traveler-insinuations-what-if-u-s-security-forces-agree
OR http://members.nowpublic.com/scrivener

(If links have been disabled, please contact www.nowpublic.com

Posted by: scrivener50 | October 20, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Palin's criticism of her party's nasty negative robocalls is as phony and half-hearted as she is.

McCain's choice of Palin will go down in history as the most disasterous decision made by a major party candidate for president. He thoroughly undermined his argument for experience and superior judgment when he foolishly picked her without vetting. She has confirmed the ridiculousness of the selection with her every speech and her awful interviews.

Palin is severely limited in intellect, knowledge, and experience. She has a small mind coupled with a tiny heart and a shrivelled soul. As such, she is an accurate representative of the Republican party in its current debased state.

Posted by: dee5 | October 20, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

To John McCain a socialist is someone who wants to change the tax policy that has benefited his supporters for the past years to one that benefits most Americans. The socialist according to McCain does not want to give tax breaks to companies that send jobs overseas and only is supporting job creators in this country. Buffett and Volker, Rubin and Summers are not socialists and Obama who they advise is not as well. John McCain said at the beginning of this election that he did not know much about the economy and he proved it. The Economist magazine which is conservative did a poll which showed that most economists agreed that Obama knew more than McCain. He does not even know what a socialist is.

Has anyone noticed that Ayers and ACORN are not the subject? Now it is socialism. This may be the last issue for McCain since the polls will tighten and he can feel that he is making progress. This may be the last distortion of the campaign until the last 4 days when some false accusation will be leveled at Obama.

Posted by: Gator-ron | October 20, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Camp Obama-
Sharing the Wealth sounds great...
It sounded great in the USSR too!
It reduces employment rates and productivity....it raises suicide rates (see WHO figures) and business failures- Higher taxes on employers sounds like a battle cry from Moscow in 1914- even Bill Clinton called it regressive- but you all have the Audacity to Hope it will work THIS time-

The Impact of Labor Taxation on Job Creation and Unemployment
Translated Title: The Impact of Labor Taxation on Job Creation and Unemployment
Publication: Journal of Economics (07/2006)
Author Name: Bojnec, Štefan; Kosi, Tanja;
Language: English
Subject: Economy
Issue: 07/2006
Page Range: 652-667
No. of Pages: 16
File size: 225 KB
Download Fee: 4 Euro (€)
Summary: This paper investigates the relationship between labor taxation and labor market performance in the European Union (EU), with special attention to the new EU member states. The impact of the labor tax wedge on employment/unemployment rates and their growth are analyzed. We employ ordinary least square (OLS) regression framework, which confirms very weak positive associa-tion between labor taxes and unemployment rate in the EU. Panel regression framework confirms statistically significant negative association between tax wedge on labor costs and employment growth in the EU as a whole, though the correlation coefficient is rather small to make conclusions. The negative impact of labor taxation on employment growth tends to be larger in the eight EU tran-sition countries than in the rest of the EU.


Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Please stop conflating the Acorn problems with voter registration fraud and election fraud - they are two different things. Is there anyone out there who thinks that Mickey Moust is actually going to be allowed to vote next month, or that the Dallas Cowboys will go to to Nevada to vote? Of course not.

As to true election fraud, I'll put one point out there: In the recent Supreme Court case involving Indiana's right to require a driver's license to vote, the stae was asked to demonstrate one case where someone voted illegally because this law was not in place. They could not.

I don't care who you vote for in November, but don't swallow this "election fraud" BS as it relates to Acorn - no one's going to swing an election by registring illegally and then voting - it would require a conspiracy far beyond the capabilities of either party.

Other types of fraud are, of course, possible. But the ACORN activities are the result of people doing a sloppy job out in the field, or voters playing games. ACORN is, btw, REQUIRED to turn in every registration, even if they know its fake, and in many cases, ACORN, is the entity that pointed out the bad registrations as part of their due diligence.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 20, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

If you want to understand go know the REAL BARACK OBAMA, READ HIS BOOKS!

Posted by: montgomeryjainishia00 | October 20, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

McCain and Palin are surrounding themselves with negative energy. Why should we vote for someone that will say and do anything to win, this is not showing the American people anything other than fight hard and lie.

Posted by: montgomeryjainishia00 | October 20, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, Gator-ron.

Posted by: JakeD | October 20, 2008 11:00 AM

Guten tag!

Posted by: Gator-ron | October 20, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Palin is sharp. She is campaigning for 2012. Stand up for abuses of the system by the RNC and at the same time not effectuate change. That was the McCain tact in the early Bush years. That way you look good for 2012 but for now keep things the same.

This woman is going to be heard from again. In the meantime she will be changing some of her core values to run in 2012 just like John McCain did.

Posted by: Gator-ron | October 20, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, Gator-ron.

Posted by: JakeD | October 20, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 10:40 AM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your argument that employment will drop if your taxes go up is a specious argument because employment did not improve very much when taxes came down. I will agree that employment by you may drop but only according to how much it went up when you made out like a bandit.
In the mean time Obama will not depend on hand outs from you but will stimulate the economy by direct investments. The economy will be stimulated by increased jobs from infrastructure construction and from spending by working class people. Then when the financial architecture has been reconstructed there will be increased stimulation of the economy by favoring industries that will keep the jobs in the US. You will get your precious tax advantages but only if you create the jobs. There is no interest in punishing business when you produce the jobs.
The tax policy under Bush has been a failure and the proper response to failure is change. You personally have profited from failure so you don't want to stop sucking the teat. You have no interest in what is best for the country only for what is best for you. You will do fine if the country benefits from your small business and you won't is it does not. That is not socialism that is capitalism that works for everyone not just the rich.

You have a right to be angry, your fascistic concept of capitalism will no longer be tolerated and that is painful. You will adapt and do well or you will change businesses. What will be strengthened by Obama is democracy, at least over the short term. If the Republican Party returns to its senses I know I will start voting more that way. Obama is needed to get rid of the dead wood and the liars and lobbyists from the right. In eight years it will be time to get rid of the Dems.

Posted by: Gator-ron | October 20, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Gator- Suck this Teat!
(wait, I'll get more!)

The Impact of Labor Taxation on Job Creation and Unemployment
Translated Title: The Impact of Labor Taxation on Job Creation and Unemployment
Publication: Journal of Economics (07/2006)
Author Name: Bojnec, Štefan; Kosi, Tanja;
Language: English
Subject: Economy
Issue: 07/2006
Page Range: 652-667
No. of Pages: 16
File size: 225 KB
Download Fee: 4 Euro (€)
Summary: This paper investigates the relationship between labor taxation and labor market performance in the European Union (EU), with special attention to the new EU member states. The impact of the labor tax wedge on employment/unemployment rates and their growth are analyzed. We employ ordinary least square (OLS) regression framework, which confirms very weak positive associa-tion between labor taxes and unemployment rate in the EU. Panel regression framework confirms statistically significant negative association between tax wedge on labor costs and employment growth in the EU as a whole, though the correlation coefficient is rather small to make conclusions. The negative impact of labor taxation on employment growth tends to be larger in the eight EU tran-sition countries than in the rest of the EU.


Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

1. Voter Fraud

There are documented cases of voter fraud all over the country. Hundreds of thousands of fake voter registrations have been collected by the affiliates of ACORN, the organization to which Obama contributed $800,000 and with whom he has long been connected---to see just how connected, click here. Over 1.2 million new voters have been registered by ACORN and it is not clear how many of these are valid. This week in Ohio several non-residents already voted. It is no exaggeration to say that the Obama campaign is condoning practices of stealing an election. Did we see a fair selection process in the primary? If we had, all of the votes would have been counted.

2. Suppression of Dissent

The possibility for questioning Obama, for raising objections to his candidacy, have been eliminated by accusations of racism and by personal attacks on private citizens. How many people will risk questioning Obama after seeing the way that Joe the Plumber's life has been investigated by the pro-Obama media? Those who supported Hillary Clinton during the primaries learned quickly that to do so was to be labeled a racist. Even Bill Clinton was attacked this way. What would an Obama presidency look like, fueled by this kind of campaign and empowered by FISA?

3. Lack of Transparency

We now know more about Joe the Plumber than we do about Barack Obama. Where are Obama's college records, thesis, birth certificate, full medical records, or state senate records?Click here for a list of 157 documented lies from Obama during this election.

I have been a progressive Democrat all my life, as it appeared to me that the Democratic Party was the party that most protected American freedoms. My first ever Republican vote is a result of the events of the 2008 campaign. It is not possible to have democracy without free elections and without freedom of speech.

Posted by: thejaner | October 20, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

thecannula:

Your argument that employment will drop if your taxes go up is a specious argument because employment did not improve very much when taxes came down. I will agree that employment by you may drop but only according to how much it went up when you made out like a bandit.

In the mean time Obama will not depend on hand outs from you but will stimulate the economy by direct investments. The economy will be stimulated by increased jobs from infrastructure construction and from spending by working class people. Then when the financial architecture has been reconstructed there will be increased stimulation of the economy by favoring industries that will keep the jobs in the US. You will get your precious tax advantages but only if you create the jobs. There is no interest in punishing business when you produce the jobs.

The tax policy under Bush has been a failure and the proper response to failure is change. You personally have profited from failure so you don't want to stop sucking the teat. You have no interest in what is best for the country only for what is best for you. You will do fine if the country benefits from your small business and you won't is it does not. That is not socialism that is capitalism that works for everyone not just the rich.

Posted by: Gator-ron | October 20, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

the"notorious"flavio:

You're one to talk.

Posted by: JakeD | October 20, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Increasing the unemployment benefits when the unemployment rate is 6.1 and rising is not socialism. Gator Ron

6.1%?
Adding 3% plus 15.65% to the profits of small business will DOUBLE that figure...cutting taxes on small business, as McCain wants to do, will spur the economy and eventually half it....don't believe me- read the article I posted from the SF chronicle on Bill Clinton's view on raising payroll taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Socialism and Communism grow apart
by Rit Nosotro
Comparative Essay or Change Over Time essay

How did Socialism and Communism grow apart when they were once used interchangably?
-------------------------------------------Although the terms socialism and communism were once used interchangeably, these systems have evolved over time to represent two completely different forms of government. Communist and socialist political parties are now bitter enemies in some parts of the world. Communism and socialism were both established to crush the uprising of capitalism in the 1800's.
One of the main reasons that communism and socialism are closely related is because Karl Marx, a German philosopher in the 1800's, played a large part in developing both forms of government. Marx was born in 1818 in what is now Prussia. In 1835 he attended the University of Bonn to study law(!). He developed radical philosophic ideas which opposed Prussian government. . He believed that capitalism was an ineffective form of government in which wealth is not distributed fairly or properly. He believed that the working class would eventually overthrow the ruling class and that the working class would then set up a socialist form of government in which the government, not individuals, owned the means of production. Marx believed that this form of government would result in complete freedom with social and economic equality for all people. Marx wrote this philosophy in a short but profound pamphlet called the Communist Manifesto.

However, even though Marx's beliefs are now considered to be socialistic rather than communist, many people consider Marx the father of communism. Communism was developed from the writings of Marx and Vladimir Lenin, a Russian revolutionary leader during the early 1900's. Communism and socialism were very similar until a group of socialists called democratic socialists began to reject the principles of communism. The democratic socialists did not agree with the way the communists used violence and revolution to gain control. Communists began to aim more at government power, while socialists concentrated on fair distribution of products and equality for all classes. Communists thought that all means of production or any material necessary for life should be controlled by the government while socialists left some control in the private sector...

ok, so OBAMARXISM is more socialistic than communist- Share the wealth, but you can keep your business...

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 9:33 AM

You forgot to point out that you are a small business owner earning more than 250K and that your definition of socialism is anything that does not tax advantage you. These are not hard times for you but for the rest of us it is. Increasing the unemployment benefits when the unemployment rate is 6.1 and rising is not socialism. Correcting the misguided tax policy of the Bush administration which led to the jobless recovery and the misuse of investment dollars in the mortgage debacle is not socialism. The only thing socialistic about Barack Obama and his advisors Buffett and Volker is in your mind.

Why is it that you have suddenly stopped talking like the business owner and more like a right wing intellectual. Have I thwarted that effort or is it that the McCain campaign has tried to switch arguments because none of their lies are working?

The interesting thing about you and aspergirl who may have been your previous pseudonym is that you have intelligent arguments that are premised on lies.

Posted by: Gator-ron | October 20, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

thelittlepipe (aka thecannula):

Your posting name says it all, tiny.

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 20, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse


Social Security rehab died first under Clinton

Carolyn Lochhead, Chronicle Washington Bureau

Monday, April 11, 2005

From the San Francisco Chronicle-

But he said there were really only three options: "We can raise payroll taxes again, which no one wants to do because the payroll tax is regressive ... We can cut benefits ... or we can work together to try to find some way to increase the rate of return."

Seemston- Try and defend's Obama's first time in history removal of the payroll cap some other way- no precedent!!!

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

All this ranting by Palin about the Democratic candidate being a socialist is downright ridiculous, since a Republican administration just partially nationalized seven of the nation's biggest banks, some against their will. THAT is socialism.

What Obama wants to do is restore the pre-2001 rate for the highest bracket, while cutting taxes for the other 95 percent of taxpayers. In terms of stimulating the economy, Obama's plan makes sense because people in the bottom 95 percent actually spend a higher percentage of their income than the rich do. Stimulating consumption will, in turn, pump revenue into retail businesses. Additionally, Obama wants to pump billions of dollars into infrastructure projects such as repairing roads and bridges. That will put more money directly into the pockets of construction contractors and necessitate the hiring of additional workers, thus reducing unemployment and stimulating middle-class income growth. That isn't socialism--it's classic Keynesian economic policy, which has worked before and which even Nixon embraced.

Posted by: pjkiger1 | October 20, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Obama's tax structure is "socialists"? Our income tax structure has always been a progressive tax (scale: 10% to 35%) based on adjusted gross income. If one bothered to look at the history of income tax, he/she would see that the rates have change nearly every year and at one point the scale topped 90%. Further, the number of brackets [a modern invention] have varied from a low of 3 brackets, to as many as 15 brackets.

So since when is adjusting the income tax "socialist"? If doing so is "socialist" then we've been "socialist" since since the colonial era, when tax varied based on occupation.

Is Palin suggesting we go to a flat rate (regressive) tax? If so, this favors higher income and wealthy.

President Bush's Stimulus Plan is another form of redistribution of wealth. I'm curious as to the number of McCain and Palin supporters who wrote "VOID" across the face of the government check and promptly returned it to the government. My guess the number is 0.

Redistribution of wealth is a fact of life and it happens in a variety of ways: income tax; sales tax; fees and fines; stimulus plans; etc. McCain and Palin's sudden disdain for the redistribution of wealth, implying such is a form of "socialism" is laughable. They are banking on the ignorance of their fan base--then again, their fan base proves time and time again to be dumb as rocks.

Did you all hear about the NC woman who kept screaming "socialist" at Obama? Apparently she was freaked out by rumors that Obama was going to unite Canada, Mexico, and the USA into one country...good god, how stupid are these republicans?

Posted by: jandcgall1 | October 20, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Seemstone's back quoting Bill Clinton, who said in 1988 that Raising Payroll taxes to save Social Security is REGRESSIVE!!!"

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

The Alaskan legislature has concluded that Governor Palin has violated state ethics laws and abused her power. Typically, Palin ignores this proving why the legislature came to this conclusion.
If Palin became Vice President she would continue this pattern of abuse of power.
If Palin became the President of the United States, it would be a disaster followed by impeachment

Posted by: seemstome | October 20, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

NOSFARATU, MY BOLDFONTED FRIEND....

FOR SUCH A SUCCESSFUL "SMALL BUSINESSMAN" LIKE YOURSELF to mistake Bush for Marx seems incomprehensilble.....NAH, IT DOESN'T

ObaMarxism Anyone?
"Spread The Wealth Around"

Failed in USSR, Failed in China, Failed in Eastern Europe, Failed in North Korea, Failed in Cuba....

See how well it works?-

Suicide Rates (per 100,000) — Various Countries
Source World Health Organization

Country
Males
Females

Lithuania 73.7 13.7
Russian Federation 72.9 13.7
Estonia 64.3 14.1
Latvia 59.5 11.8
Kazakhstan 51.9 9.5
Hungary 49.2 15.6
Belarus 48.7 9.6
Slovenia 48.0 13.9
Sri Lanka 44.7 16.6
Finland 38.7 10.7
Ukraine 38.2 9.2
Croatia 34.2 11.3
Republic of Moldova 30.9 6.2
Switzerland 30.9 12.2
France 30.4 10.8
Austria 30.0 10.0
Luxembourg 29.0 9.8
Belgium 26.7 11.0
Cuba 25.6 14.9
Bulgaria 25.3 9.7
Denmark 24.3 9.8
Japan 24.3 11.5
Poland 24.1 4.6
Czech Republic 24.0 6.8
New Zealand 23.6 5.8
Germany 22.1 8.1
Yugoslavia 21.6 9.2
Canada (Details) 21.5 5.4
Romania 21.1 4.3
Mauritius 20.6 6.4
Sweden 20.0 8.5
United States of America (Details) 19.3 4.4


Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

The fact is Obama's tax plan is just a return to the PROVEN system
Bill Clinton used during the prosperous years of his term in office.
Bill Clinton left office with huge budget surpluses.

McCain's tax plan is just an extension of the PROVEN failure of the Bush tax system of rewarding the wealthy and corporations at the expense of the middle class. The middle class is now redistributing their wealth to bail out banks.

People like to argue theory and statistics but it's as simple as this: Are you better off now then you were eight years ago?

Posted by: seemstome | October 20, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse


As a feminist, I thought Sarah Palin might become a role model for other women to get involved with politics. However, after watching numerous Sarah Palin videos, I'm enranged with her policies. Palin is against women's rights, and she does not have anything to offer for the United States. Please check out this site:

http://dailysource.org/palinvideos

This site has videos of her talking about foreign policy and also lots of other topics including the economy, energy, the environment, and the media. It's got every interview andd nationally televised speech since she was picked, as well as every SNL skit and Daily Show report about her.

Posted by: thepurpleocean | October 20, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

SOCIALISM

Bush started it.
McCain voted for it.


Well, the vast majority of dems would never tolerate true socialist policies let alone communism. So sleep soundly, chickens.

SREAD THE WEALTH! MOO HA HA HA!

TAX THE RICH INTO DAMNATION! MOO HA HA HA!

BOOGA! BOOGA! BOOGA!

You conservadrone wimps are afraid of EVERYTHING!

GROW YOUR OWN BRAIN and stop relying on FOX NEWS and right-wing-extremist radio to do your thinking for you!

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 20, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

thecannulla spewed:"[her typical 'I am affraid of everything' spew]"

No unemployment for me thanks! I'm just an American Patriot who sees that this economic crisis is the REPUBLICANS FAULT

The housing bubble happened under BUSH'S Republican congress due to their laissez-faire policies towards Wall St. If there were problems, they had PLENTY OF TIME to fix them. But they didn't cause they're greedy and making too much easy money.

Unfortunately for Republicans, the housing bubble blew up in their faces one year too soon.

THIS ECONOMIC CRISIS WILL FOREVER BE THE FAULT OF THE REPUBLICANS

And every American who isn't brainwashed by FOX NEWS and right-wing-extremist radio knows it!

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 20, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

So does Palin think it's socialism when the tax money goes to a nobody, but capitalism when it goes to a wall street investment banker?

Posted by: PaulSunstone | October 20, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

NOSFARATU, MY BOLDFONTED FRIEND....YOU'RE BACK TO IMPRESS US WITH YOUR BOLDNESS...SOCIALISM HAS NEVER SUCCEEDED- (DID YOU GET THOSE BOOKS I SUGGESTED TO HELP YOU KILL YOUR HOURS ON THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE?)

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

MarxObamaism Anyone?
"Spread The Wealth Around"

The North Korean Disaster

© The New Australian - No. 94, 2-8 Nov. 1998

...It is interesting to follow the twists and wrigglings of socialist apologists through the years. After the truth about the Soviet Union began to seep under the iron curtain, it turned out that it was all because of the dark Russian character, that that is what they were like , but that China was quite different, the socialism there was a kind of applied Confucianism, all wise philosophy and scholarly peace. Then later on, Castro was not a gray, totalitarian communist; his brand of socialism was "socialism with a calypso beat", a kind of Marxist version of "Beach Blanket Bingo".

Where did it go wrong, and why does it always go wrong? There are myriad reasons. In a devastating insult to Mankind, the left will try to tell you that it is our fault, not the fault of their philosophy. Socialism is a beautiful, intensely moral, idea, but we are too evil in our natures to practice it. The left deny that it is a profoundly immoral and utterly corrupt system for beings of intelligence and individual judgment to live by, that it does not work because it is contradictory to the best in human nature; the independent, creative side of Man which it stifles and destroys, not by accident, but by necessity.

Industrial development and a high standard of living require creative freedom, and creative freedom requires free minds and private property, otherwise the ideas of the creative and inventive who keep us all alive can never be translated into action. No matter how well intentioned are the socialist leaders (hardly ever in my opinion), the fact that they must impose an authoritarian rule that cannot tolerate any opposition ensures the moral and economic failure of their regime. For socialism is a determinitely perfectionist ideology, and as Ludwig von Mises pointed out, every socialist is a potential dictator, absolutely without exception.

This perfectionism always impressed the left liberal satraps from the West. There was no rubbish in the streets of Moscow, and no graffiti on the Moscow subway, even though the Al Gores and Pat Schroeders regard it as "the people's art". Ever wondered why? And to return to North Korea, you might see literal starvation on the streets of Pyongyang, but you would never see any cripples. People with chronic musculoskeletal problems might suggest that the magical power of socialism was limited, and so they were forcibly sent to the countryside to rot in government hovels until they died.

As you read these words, the rest of the North Korean population is joining them.

Woodard- I pay my fair share and probably some of yours....AND I don't complain about it because it ours is the greatest country in the world, let's keep it THAT way.....Communism/Socialism Fails time and time again- I started out in a lower middle class family and did well...America is the Land Of Opportunity, not Animal Farm!

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

LOL

Posted by: JakeD | October 20, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

thecannula spewed: "[his special brand of fear spew]'

Rest assured you right-wing-nut, the vast majority of Dems would not tolerate a socialist state let a alone a communist state.

Dems especially don't like fascist states, like the one that we had to live with the past eight years And whose economic policies haven't exactly worked and has FORCED us to adopt the most socialist-like bailout ever in this country's history as signed by your party's President and voted for by your party's candidate. And McCain wants to continue those lame policies!

So remember,

Socialism
BUSH started it.
McCain signed it.

I speak as a small business owner too. And as an American Loving Patriot.

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 20, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

thecannula

As a small business man you know that you don't pay what you should. By the time you take all your deductions and factor in the "fudging part" you probably end up paying nothing. I'm tired of hearing how the
"small" business man is the backbone of the country. 95% of all taxes are paid by the everyday working person, not a small business man. Sure we get write offs, but not nearly the amount you do.Also on a side note, I saw quite a few "caviar" eating republicans in the background....When Obama said "share" the wealth, he was talking about everyone sharing in the dream, not just the wealthy. Republicans are nothing but sleazy P i N Hea ds

Posted by: woodard3 | October 20, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

IF PALIN IS SO QUALIFIED...

Then why didn't she run for president?

Makes you wonder what the Republican Primary would have looked like?

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 20, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Sen McCain will never recover the credibility he lost with his VP selection.

Posted by: zukermand | October 20, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Is this me or the headline is bigger than the actual bite?

I don't believe her.

Posted by: Serge_Birbrair | October 20, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Gator Ron- One more thing- It doesn't matter if YOUR capital gains taxes go up (depends on how many Gators you wrestle) What DOES matter is that the folks with lots o' stock want to sell their positions before THEIR capital gains taxes go UP, thereby reducing the value of YOUR stock...didn't you here Fred Thompson's speech at the Republican convention? You liberals think when Obama muddies the water for those making over 250K it will only effect our part of the bucket. Dramatically increased taxes on successful small businesses will lead to higher unemployment and prices and lower productivity and stock prices....EVERYBODY suffers!

Thaimex- I Am a small businessmean, not a Republican operative, and I don't know a better system of government with all its inequalities than the US's....Certainly those that have in the past based themselves on the SHARE THE WEALTH edicts of Marx and Obama have failed AND HAVE RESULTED IN THE GREATEST INEQUALITIES- I visited Moscow this summer and saw the lavish apartments Stalin's cronies lived in and the tenements multiple families shared who weren't in the Party's favor....but you know what I mean, your own candidate ordered, according to the NY Post, Iranian caviar and Champagne prior to the Al Smith Dinner last week...ever read Animal Farm Timex?

Posted by: thecannula | October 20, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

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