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Obama Takes Issue With 'Political Point-Scorers' Over Health Care

By Michael D. Shear
President Obama decried Saturday what he called the "outlandish" claims by critics of his plans for health-care reform as he continued to ratchet up his personal rhetoric in support of the changes he hopes to make.

In his weekly Internet and radio address, the president pushed back against claims "that reform will promote euthanasia, cut Medicaid, or bring about a government takeover of health care. That's simply not true."

Obama conceded that the fight he launched to change health care has become "fiercer" as the specifics of reform have become clearer. Lawmakers returned home this week to find raucous opponents of his health-care plans at town halls across the country.

"In recent days and weeks, some have been using misleading information to defeat what they know is the best chance of reform we have ever had. That is why it is important, especially now, as senators and representatives head home and meet with their constituents, for you, the American people, to have all the facts," he said.

In fact, the opposition has grown much more intense. An e-mail put out Friday evening from House Republican Leader John Boehner was titled: "DEMOCRATS GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER OF HEALTH CARE WILL CRUSH STATE BUDGETS."

And former Alaska governor Sarah Palin wrote Friday on her Facebook account that Obama's plans are "downright evil."

"In the America I know ...," Palin wrote, people shouldn't have to "stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care."

At town hall meetings, several people have been arrested for disrupting the proceedings. The Anti Defamation League on Friday condemned the use of Nazi imagery by some people at the town halls.

In his address, Obama accused the opponents of his efforts of "trying to exploit differences or concerns for political gain." He called them "the defenders of the status quo and political point-scorers in Washington."

The president also continued to intensify his anti-insurance company language, which is designed to appeal to the public's frustration and anger at their own insurance providers. He continued to refer to his goal as "health-insurance reform," rather than "health-care reform."

"What we need, and what we will have when we pass health-insurance reform, are consumer protections to make sure that those who have insurance are treated fairly and that insurance companies are held accountable," he said.

He vowed to "stop insurance companies from denying coverage because of a person's medical history." And he once again invoked the memory of his dying mother to illustrate the reasons for new rules to govern health insurance companies.

"I will never forget watching my own mother, as she fought cancer in her final days, worrying about whether her insurer would claim her illness was a preexisting condition. I have met so many Americans who worry about the same thing," he said.

Posted at 6:00 AM ET on Aug 8, 2009  | Category:  Health Care
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Yes, Your vehicle must be less than 25 years old on the trade-in date

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Posted by: jhenry1208 | August 12, 2009 6:50 AM

Posted by: genewebster | August 11, 2009 1:46 PM
Where do you think the taxes you pay now (or 'paid' under Bush) go?
*******************************************

What makes you think I am a fan of Bush? You need to quit assuming so much.

Besides, you don't seem to have any problem spending my hard earned money so I thought I would return the favor.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 11, 2009 6:39 PM

"Since you think the cost isn't all that much then you can pay for my share and my wife's. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it.
Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 11, 2009 12:39 AM"

"you can pay for 'my' share"

me, me, me....

Where do you think the taxes you pay now (or 'paid' under Bush) go?

Sometimes I think that a lot of republicans sold their soul (to people like Jack Abramoff), for unless they, themselves, get something out of it, they are against it.

I'm waiting for you, too, to say that you're against mandantory euthanasia, or something 'else' that Palin 'said'.

Posted by: genewebster | August 11, 2009 1:46 PM

Posted by: Gator-ron | August 11, 2009 6:03 AM
You do not understand what you talk about. Sorry I responded to any of your posts you are so lavish with expressing what you do not know.
*******************************************

You need to educate yourself because there is plenty of video of Obama saying he wants a single payer system and that getting any kind of public option is the first step to get there. He said this as recently as during his campaign for president. This is indisputable. What he says TODAY can't be trusted and this is one of his biggest problems with the public... a lack of credibility. The public isn't nearly as dumb or lethargic as Obama anticipated. Why did he want to pass this massive health system takeover bill without giving anyone a chance to read it and vet it thoroughly? It is because he doesn't care about what the public thinks. This makes Obama a dangerous president and one that needs lots of controls put on him to make sure he doesn't destroy this country through his ignorance and lack of respect for our Constitution.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 11, 2009 8:00 AM

"Funny, Obama wants to give the government the monopoly over the entire health care system. There isn't a monopoly now but there will be if Obama, Reid and Pelosi get what they want."

You do not understand what you talk about. Sorry I responded to any of your posts you are so lavish with expressing what you do not know.

In every health market in the country two of the top three insurers have 75% or more of the market. These three companies have the ability to set the prices in any local market. That is a monopoly.

Again, had I realized you were an adolescent I would not have commented on your nonsense. I will leave your other posts unanswered since factual information is not in your arsenal at least on health care.

Posted by: Gator-ron | August 11, 2009 6:03 AM

Posted by: Gator-ron | August 10, 2009 10:30 PM
You can repeat over and over that congress should be forced to do something that others should not. It makes you sound like fascist and not a particularly well versed at that.
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No, it doesn't make anyone a fascist. It forces Congress to write a bill that we can all live with because THEY have to live with it too.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 11, 2009 12:49 AM

Posted by: Gator-ron | August 10, 2009 10:33 PM
Those who call Obama ignorant are poor judges of human talent. The man may be wrong but he is not ignorant.
*******************************************

Take away Obama's teleprompter and he is as dump as a stick. He is lazy too. He let's Pelosi do all the heavy work of writing the bills and all he plans to do is read teleprompters and sign his name if it passes.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 11, 2009 12:46 AM

Posted by: Gator-ron | August 10, 2009 10:35 PM
The major thing that Obama wants to do from an economic standpoint is to end the monopoly that the insurers have. Costs go down when monopolies are ended.
******************************************

Funny, Obama wants to give the government the monopoly over the entire health care system. There isn't a monopoly now but there will be if Obama, Reid and Pelosi get what they want.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 11, 2009 12:42 AM

Posted by: sweepmeoffmyfeetnow | August 10, 2009 10:57 PM
The trillion dollar health care would cost $3279.00 to each of the 305,million Americans spread out over 10 years. That is not a lot break that down over 10 years it is $328.00 a year!
*******************************************

Since you think the cost isn't all that much then you can pay for my share and my wife's. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 11, 2009 12:39 AM

Posted by: potrafka | August 10, 2009 10:55 PM
One can not deliberately lie to the American people to attempt to score a political point, and be considered a patriot...at least not as I see it.
*******************************************

The only people deliberately lying to the American people are Obama and most of the Democrats in Congress. i guess you can put them in the non-patriot category.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 11, 2009 12:36 AM

Posted by: potrafka | August 10, 2009 10:55 PM
One can not deliberately lie to the American people to attempt to score a political point, and be considered a patriot...at least not as I see it.
*******************************************

The only people deliberately lying to the American people are Obama and most of the Democrats in Congress.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 11, 2009 12:35 AM

potrafka

You are making up things that are not in the health care bill. You are not ignorant, you are knowingly lying to achieve dissension with you opposition and have nothing useful to say. I did not capitalize it because that is equivalent to shouting at a town hall meeting. Since you have no criticism of the contents of the bill you make up nonsense and then hope that someone will argue with you so you can generate more lies. I will not respond to a future post because you do not seem to be constrained by reality.

Posted by: Gator-ron | August 10, 2009 11:06 PM

Sara Palin Leading the New Death panel The Republican party practing economic Eugenics 22 thousand people faced the real death panel in 2006. That death panel was lac of health insurance. Now there are new leaders in that panel and Sara is one of them. By denying people affordable health care a public option they are the death panel.
The trillion dollar health care would cost $3279.00 to each of the 305,million Americans spread out over 10 years. That is not a lot break that down over 10 years it is $328.00 a year! 22,000 adults died in 2006 due to a lack of health insurance. Would you give 328.00 dollars to save 1 life how about 22 thousand. That is less than a bush stimulus check, it is less than a child tax credit. It is less than cash for a clunker. It is a cheep amount to have the security of knowing if something happened you could get health coverage. So would you look at any of the family of the 22 thousand people who died and say well their life was not worth 328 dollars.

Posted by: sweepmeoffmyfeetnow | August 10, 2009 10:57 PM

I want to respond to a lot of revisionist history regarding Bush, but not enough space! So, let me state that I think that the president, the Democrats, and the press are making a big mistake in calling the right wing stories re: health care by nice politically correct terms. Misleading, misunderstanding, etc. The whole euthanasia, death panel, etc. type thing is not a mistake made by someone who does not understand. It is not an ideological difference which can be debated on it's merits. Let's stop the BS and point out that these folks are not idiots, THEY ARE BOLD FACED LIARS . They are counting on saying their lies over and over until enough people believe it must be true. One can surely disagree on the philosophy of universal health care and be a good patriotic citizen. One can not deliberately lie to the American people to attempt to score a political point, and be considered a patriot...at least not as I see it.

Posted by: potrafka | August 10, 2009 10:55 PM

The government is going to be an insurer like in Medicare, it is not going to be delivering care as in the VA. That goes beyond what any of the bills undertake and I would be against it if it were. The argument that someone is going to be experimented on is nonsense from the right wing press. Those that only listen to people who agree with them are called ignorant.

Posted by: Gator-ron | August 10, 2009 10:39 PM

The major thing that Obama wants to do from an economic standpoint is to end the monopoly that the insurers have. Costs go down when monopolies are ended.

Posted by: Gator-ron | August 10, 2009 10:35 PM

Those who call Obama ignorant are poor judges of human talent. The man may be wrong but he is not ignorant.

Posted by: Gator-ron | August 10, 2009 10:33 PM

Most people are interested in lowering the cost of their health care or making it available to the most number of people. No one should be forced to take the government plan, including congress. The only one who would insist on that are people who want to dictate to others. That is the health care insurers who want to dictate no change and those who are operatives for them and they are among those who post here.

No body should be forced to use the government or the health insurers. The idea is to create choices not limit them.

You can repeat over and over that congress should be forced to do something that others should not. It makes you sound like fascist and not a particularly well versed at that.

Posted by: Gator-ron | August 10, 2009 10:30 PM

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 10, 2009 12:19 PM
What a BS non-argument this "enroll the congress first" line is. They have coverage and under the proposed reforms they could keep it, just like anyone else.
*******************************************

It is a great argument. If they expect the American people to live with it then they should be the first guinea pigs. When I see Congress and their families living with the same plan they want the rest of us to use then I will START to listen to them. Until then they can take whatever they propose and shove it.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 10, 2009 10:05 PM

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 10, 2009 12:46 PM
I hope when people see those anti-reform commercials on tv, they look at who sponsors them. It will be some nice-sounding committee. Dig deeper and you will see they are fronts for the insurance and drug companies?
******************************************

Isn't it ironic that you will see the same stuff on the pro-reform ads? Except it is MoveOn.org or some union. I just read today that DRUG COMPANIES are going to run pro-reform ads! That must twist your mind into a knot.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 10, 2009 9:58 PM

Posted by: alaskan2 | August 10, 2009 2:41 PM
I can't believe some of the posts I am reading here. For askgees- comparing our president to Hitler is one of the stupidest things I have read.
*****************************************

Actually, I agree that comparing Obama to Hitler is ridiculous when he is obviously more like the Japanese in WWII. He campaigned with one mask on his face and then once he took the oath of office he rips it off and his real face of a socialist/Marxist is what we got. He perpetuated a socialist/Marxist sneak attack on the American people just like the Japanese did at Pearl Harbor.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 10, 2009 9:52 PM

Wow. There are some interesting posters on here. To the person that thinks they can always take care of themselves - did you build your road? I hope you can do your own EM care and fire fighting. U better home school ur kids. Or perhaps go live on an island where u really do take care of yourself.
In the end most people are selfish. They care about me myself and I. SO the only way we get health reform will be when employers really do say - go take care of yourselves, pay your own premiums on single policies. And even more cannot get coverage.
And the insurance companies rub their hands with glea....

Posted by: caz1 | August 10, 2009 9:51 PM

Posted by: genewebster | August 10, 2009 7:45 PM
Palin's statement is just another sign of her ignorance in NOT reading the bill---
***************************************

I guess we can assume Obama is ignorant too because he admitted he has never read the bills and can't tell you want is in them. Its funny how some knives cut both ways.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 10, 2009 9:45 PM

Palin's statement is just another sign of her ignorance in NOT reading the bill---

---just as she said she didn't read much in the way of newspapers and magazines, maybe she watched Bill, or listened to Rush---but she DID not read the bill...

and, IF this is the way that republicans get the news, by word of (hoof and) mouth from some secondary, or even third, hand informer, and, if her followers want to believe her instead of knowing the truth, then, desperation is a dangerous bedfellow.

Remember, there's NO evolution in Alaska and Texas...

Posted by: genewebster | August 10, 2009 7:45 PM

You spend more to lower your debt--
Republicans have no moral authority on this issue.

you close gitmo yet it's still open---
He said one year, you weren't listening

you say I'll end the war in Iraq yet were still in Iraq,---
We are drawing down on schedule in agreement with the Iraqi government. He said that we would be as responsible getting out of Iraq as we were irresponsible going in. That is what is happening and that is what a majority of Americans voted for.
Again, you weren't listening

you pass a stimulus because it's necessary to keep unemployment at 8% yet it's at 9.4% and so forth. Hope and change suckers!
Posted by: theBozyn | August 8, 2009 10:23 AM---
The primary goal of passing the stimulus was to avert a depression, in that regard it has so far been successful. Just wait until the program really kicks in, around 2010. At least this money is being spent on Americans, not p!ssed away in some foreign land.

Posted by: JRM2 | August 10, 2009 3:54 PM

"First things first, who has received a portion of our stimulus money? When will we be reimbursed and at what rate of interest?"
---The stimulus is not a loan, unless you want to pay your tax break back. 1/3 tax breaks, 1/3 to help states, you like having someone to come put out your house if it catches fire?, 1/3 for innovation and rebuilding of America's infrastructure.

Who will pay for the "Cash for Clunkers" program that we've just finished paying for when it flops.
----It has been a wild success in terms that it accomplished all and more than it was intended to.

"Why wasn't the mortgage rescue package that Mr. Obama promised legitimate? I was one of the homeowners that tried to get assistance from his so called program for homeowners."
---Without knowing the specifics of your financial condition no one can answer that question.

"Americans deserve to know who will pay for this healthcare program, what it covers, if illegal aliens will receive it, and why our government is exempt from this so called wondrous healthcare reform."
--Agreed, so let's find out rather than disrupting town hall meetings so no one can talk about it, try reading the bill. No one is "forced" to take this plan that is why it is called an "option". Congress has gold-standard health benefits for life, there is no incentive for them to switch to a lesser, albeit, less-expensive plan.

As Always, Annie

Posted by: annie21 |

Posted by: JRM2 | August 10, 2009 3:45 PM

It doesn't help that Obama is calling protestors unpatriotic
http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.com/2009/08/obama-opponents-of-obamacare.html

Posted by: MatthewAvitabile | August 10, 2009 3:11 PM

I can't believe some of the posts I am reading here. For askgees- comparing our president to Hitler is one of the stupidest things I have read. You obviously didn't pay attention during history class and now all yoiiu can do is listen to the (well) paid mouthpieces like old Rush to the table and Glenn At the Beck and call of the repubs and the like. You do not know what you are talking about.

For all of you who are repeating the foolish mis-information, who do you think makes the decisions about your care now if you are lucky enough to have insurance? It isn't your doctor and you. It is your insurance company. So even if we had government run health care, who is going to make the best judgments? A government panel or an insurance company who is only interested in not paying claims while at the same time keeping profits high enough to keep paying their CEO's their outrageous salaries?
None of the crap like what Palin posted is true. There are no "death panels" in this legislation, even though none has even been passed as of yet. If there are any death panels it is with insurance companies right now that decide whether to pay for treatments- like the 17 year old girl they wouldn't approve for a transplant who died the same day the parents and community finally got them to ageree to pay. The insurance companies are the ones to blame for the mess we are in. Again- look at the high salaries these CEO's get. Why do think insurance rates keep going up. Health care is high but so are salaries in the insurance industry. The legislation being considered would also keep the insurance industry from being able to make those decisions that would keep us from getting the care we need and keep them from denying coverage for "pre-existing" conditions. Everyone should welcome reform because the insurance companies have become gods with lives in their hands. I don't want my life in their hands.

Posted by: alaskan2 | August 10, 2009 2:41 PM

IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT THE AMOUNT OF FALSE INFORMATION AND PROTEST ARE GEARED TO EITHER PROTECT OR INCREASE THE INVESTMENTS OF A FEW. THE PROBLEM IS THE MEDIA. INSTEAD OF PRINTING THE TRUTH, THEY ARE PRINTING THE SENSATIONAL. THIS WORKS SOMETIMES BUT IT GETS TO A POINT WHERE IT PUTS OTHERS IN DANGER.
WORDS ARE POWERFUL WEAPONS BUT INFORMATION IS BETTER. PEOPLE CAN MAKE THE DECISIONS ON WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM IF THEY ARE GIVEN CORRECT INFORMATION.
WE WILL BE DEFEATED NOT BY ALQUIEDA BUT BY OUR OWN CORPORATE GREEDS USE OF THE POOR TO DIVIDE THEMSELVES AND THE MIDDLE CLASS TO BENEFIT THE RICH.
IT IS VERY SAD BECAUSE LOOKING BACK 30-40 YEARS, THE POPULATION OF POOR PEOPLE HAVE INCREASED AND THE MIDDLE CLASS HAS BEEN REDUCED. THE UPPER CLASS HAS REMAINED THE SAME BUT GOT RICHER. THEY ARE IN CONTROL OF OUR COUNTRY. THEY ARE IN CONTROL OF CONGRESS. REMEMBER, THE PRESIDENT DOES NOT PASS/MAKE LAWS, CONGRESS DOES. GWB GOT BLAMED FOR THE WAR BUT CONGRESS VOTED FOR AND FUNDED IT. THE PEOPLE WHO VOTE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MESS WE ARE IN. THE PRESIDENT IS ONE MAN WITH ONE VOTE.
LOOK AT YOUR CONGRESS PEOPLE. WHERE YOUR MONEY IS, THERE IS YOUR HEART ALSO. ARE THEY WORKING FOR YOU? FROM THE LOOKS OF THOSE ON TV, YOUR CONGRESSMAN IS NOT WORKING FOR YOU IF HE IS TELLING YOU LIES. ONE OF THE BIGEST IS THAT OUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN WILL BE STUCK WITH THE BILL. IF THEY KEEP SENDING YOUR JOBS OVERSEAS, THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO PAY FOR****. NEITHER WILL THEY BE HEALTHY ENOUGH TO GO OVERSEAS TO WORK.
THE BIG GUYS WHO ARE LYING TO YOU, KNOW THAT THE GROSS INCOMES FROM HEALTH CARE WILL GREATLY REDUCE. THEY KNOW THAT THEY WILL BE TAXED ON THEIR EXCESSIVE BENEFITS AND THAT FRAUD WILL STILL EXIST BUT THE PATIENT WILL FINALY HAVE A CHOICE.
STOP BEING THE SUCKERS. BEFORE THE GOP BUSTED UNIONS, WE HAD A STRONG MIDDLE CLASS AND MANY LIFE TIME JOBS. ARE YOU GOING TO KEEK KILLING OFF THOSE WHO ARE DOING YOU GOOD.?

Posted by: sm98yth | August 10, 2009 1:03 PM

I hope when people see those anti-reform commercials on tv, they look at who sponsors them. It will be some nice-sounding committee. Dig deeper and you will see they are fronts for the insurance and drug companies?

Why? Because they stand to lose profits under the reform bill. Plain and simple.

If I didn't know anything else about the debate, I'd know I didn't want to be on the same side as the insurance and drug companies.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 10, 2009 12:46 PM

I would encourage the anti-reform crowd to keep doing what their doing. And I hope they think they are winning.

Posted by: owldog | August 10, 2009 12:37 PM


What a BS non-argument this "enroll the congress first" line is. They have coverage and under the proposed reforms they could keep it, just like anyone else.

It's a pretty good plan, but I will tell you that it doesn't cover Ted Kennedy's "non-standard" cancer treatments, and guess what? He still gets the treatment because he has money to pay for it. Just like the Obamas and the vast majority of congress could pay out-of-pocket for whatever care they want. So can everyone.

There is no "rationing" in the plan, and no requirement to give up your current coverage. Chill out, people.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 10, 2009 12:19 PM

"The more I see of President Obama, the more relieved I am that we elected him and not McCain/Palin, whose comments on her Facebook page are as evil as they are stupid."

hey, I'm glad they chose Palin. It shows what kind of a person the repubs want to lead the country...

...another 'I, me, my' person, like Bush...

Posted by: genewebster | August 10, 2009 12:11 PM

The more I see of President Obama, the more relieved I am that we elected him and not McCain/Palin, whose comments on her Facebook page are as evil as they are stupid.

Mr. Obama is certainly not perfect, and I wish he would stick to his guns on Single-Payer Universal Healthcare, but he has shown great political courage in not backing down altogether, as Clinton did.

I can only hope that if the final bill is not good enough, President Obama will have the courage to veto an inferior measure.

Posted by: curtnevan | August 10, 2009 11:52 AM

MANDATORY: Everyone in the Administration, all Representative, Senators, Congressional staff and federal employees must be enrolled as the first group into the Obama/Democrat health care plan for a period of 1 year before the American people are required to enroll. NO EXCEPTIONS. Rather then have mass disaster by trying to enroll the entire populace and make adjustments, Our elected representatives will be responsible as our pilot program. Then the people will vote on a referendum whether it is successful and if the country should adopt the plan.

Posted by: aleibig | August 10, 2009 11:51 AM

Unfortunately....the only way some of you will understand the desperation of not having healthcare is to lose your coverage and find out you can't get it because of a pre-existing condition. If you have fought for this country and payed your taxes you deserve basic health coverage. It is the humane approach for a civilized country to offer some form of basic coverage. To deny that to those of us who made the sacrifice when called and have been model citizens is heartless and cruel. Please get some help for your paranoia! If you qualify for coverage!

Posted by: arealrush | August 10, 2009 11:29 AM

"The first problem I have with your statement is, “Not helping others who can’t help them selves” Everyone is born equal and has the same resources at their disposal. It’s only one person’s fault that they cannot take care of them selves. THEM. If you chose not to pay attention in school and failed or dropped out then you have to live with you’re short comings. Don’t ask me to work harder to make up for you’re/there lack of ambition. If you wish to succeed then you must be willing to work hard for what you want. Anyone that feels we should all be equal regardless is obviously a failure and must make due SORRY. However there’s nothing preventing you wonderful upstanding LIBS from donating a portion of you’re salary or opening you’re home up to an indigent person. After all what’s the worst thing that could happen. Oh yea, they’ll murder you. Ignorance is bliss but LIB stup1dity is boundless.


Posted by: askgees | August 9, 2009 8:22 PM "

If this is really the way you think, then you should STAND UP, and tell your congressmen to get the US out of Afghanistan, to get out of Iraq, to get out of South Korea, to stop sending money to third world countries, to stop funding Social Security, to stop spending money on disabled children, etc.

For, ACCORDING TO YOU, everyone should be able to take care of themselves.

So, I thinking that, since YOU think you take care of YOURSELF, that everyone SHOULD be able to.

It goes back to genetics (something you may not believe in), that some people just can't or don't think beyond their own nose.

If 'something' doesn't help you personally, then it's not important.

I think this type of thinking comes from the medulla, and often because the frontal lobe doesn't develop properly.

Posted by: genewebster | August 10, 2009 11:11 AM

"Until Congress puts themselves under the same plan they want to shove on us I don't even want to hear their proposed legislation."

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 10, 2009 7:18 AM"
-----------------------------------------


THIS !!


Wart

Posted by: Warthogg | August 10, 2009 10:11 AM

I listened to President Obama’s hour long infomercial on Health Care. During the “town hall style” format a lady asked President Obama a question which went something like this. My 105 year old grandmother was ill 5 years ago when she was 100 years old. She was told that she needed by pass heart surgery. The first surgeon consulted would not perform the operation; however, the second surgeon upon examining my grandmother decided that she was strong enough to take the risk. Grand Ma now 105 is still living a full meaningful life. The question posed to President Obama was this. Under your health plan would my grandmother get the operation? Obama responded in his eloquent Harvard Law School Professor style; that the grandmother would receive end of life counseling and be given a pill for the pain. This is how Obama will return science to its rightful place in our society by appointing a board which will be insolated from interference and oversight by the Congress.

Obama made it clear from this exchange about a grandmother’s care that his plans will ration care for the elderly which is euthanasia when care denied results in a sure death. This is not a right wing nut smear and distortion of the facts. It came directly from President Obama’s mouth. Many people listened to President Obama that night. I suggest this is a major source of the outrage of the people at the “town hall” meetings. President Obama is now revealing another side of his personality by trying to step back from this exchange now by blaming the few Media sources which oppose him.
Sarah has framed Obama's plan in the only terms which are real; it is outrageous that she should be attacked by Obama for being more eloquent than a Harvard Lawyer.

Posted by: kc4WV | August 10, 2009 9:45 AM

The Obama Administration:

The socialist administration of threats, terrorism, and thuggery.

Mr. Obama's legecy.

Posted by: aleibig | August 10, 2009 9:11 AM

Posted by: annie21 | August 10, 2009 1:20 AM
6, Why is the government exempt from this program that Mr. Obama is raving about?
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.... and this is the absolute best sign that we don't want Obamacare. Until Congress puts themselves under the same plan they want to shove on us I don't even want to hear their proposed legislation.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 10, 2009 7:18 AM

Before Palin or anyone else is accused of being off their rocker, read the proposed healthcare reform plan.

Do you know:

1. Who will pay for this program?
2. Will the program be under government control.
3. Will abortions be paid for out of the goodness of our hearts?
4. What will the co-insurance be?
5. Is the word pre-existing secretly lodged in the heart of this program?
6, Why is the government exempt from this program that Mr. Obama is raving about?

As Always, Annie

Posted by: annie21 | August 10, 2009 1:20 AM

Please share with Mr. Obama we're waiting for the transparency from the government before we even consider a healthcare plan.

First things first, who has received a portion of our stimulus money? When will we be reimbursed and at what rate of interest?

Who will pay for the "Cash for Clunkers" program that we've just finished paying for when it flops.

Why wasn't the mortgage rescue package that Mr. Obama promised legitimate? I was one of the homeowners that tried to get assistance from his so called program for homeowners.

Americans deserve to know who will pay for this healthcare program, what it covers, if illegal aliens will receive it, and why our government is exempt from this so called wondrous healthcare reform.

As Always, Annie

Posted by: annie21 | August 10, 2009 1:15 AM

Posted by: John1263 | August 9, 2009 10:07 PM
palin is completely off the deep end. Is she huffing? Or did the Wasilla meth posse hook her up with some righteous dope?
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2012 is a long way off. Isn't kind of early to be suffering from such a bad case of PDS?

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 10:41 PM

Ok let me put it plainly, try to follow carefully…

Congress is asking those of us with insurance to pay MORE for LESS care. I would call this a recipe for POLITICAL suicide but maybe the congressional leaders from California, Washington DC and New England know better.

Those are the simple facts. The larger argument, by middle class moderates who are rightfully outraged, is that government does not do anything well. Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are all on verge of insolvency and the federal deficit is unsustainable. In order to fund these EXISTING obligations, the average American family would need to pay increased taxes of $14,700 per year. Congress must substantially UNBURDON the American taxpayer, not expand unaffordable programs. Consider the irony as Obama asks for higher taxes to expand a health care system he argues is already overfunded.

True health reform would put medical decisions back into the hands of the patient. A more rational choice would be to vastly expand private Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). By requiring all workers to contribute 10% of their pay into a HSA, and by providing subsidies to fund HSA for the less fortunate, we would ensure that all individuals have resources to pay for basic care immediately. It would also provide future funding to begin to unburden our unaffordable Medicare obligations.

Consistently we hear Medicare is an example of a government plan that works. In truth however Medicare & Medicaid is already a major hidden drain on our health system. In actuality 26% of the cost of a PRIVATE employer-sponsored health plan is driven by cost shifting from Medicare, Medicaid and the uninsured. This is a huge burden on business and families in this country, in fact one-half of the cost increases over the last decade has been driven by this cost shifting! Any true reform must outlaw cost shifting and require that government pay its obligations directly. A more accountable plan would require that the Medicare and Medicaid tax rate be a adjusted each year to align with the cost of benefit.

Given the existing imbalance in obligations vs. tax inflows it is clear why thoughtful Americans now rise up in outrage against the Democratic plan for “health care reform”.

Posted by: ELFopportunity | August 9, 2009 10:41 PM

palin is completely off the deep end. Is she huffing? Or did the Wasilla meth posse hook her up with some righteous dope?

Posted by: John1263 | August 9, 2009 10:07 PM

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 9, 2009 1:25 PM
Bottom line: President Obama's agenda appears to be the target of a campaign of political sabotage aided and abetted by a secretive executive branch "multi-agency coordinated action program" that operates below the radar of Team Obama, Congress, the judiciary, and the mainstream media.
******************************************

The bottom line is that Obama and the Democrats are collapsing under the weight of their own lies and deception. The public no longer trusts, or believes, anything Obama and his socialist/Marxist stormtroopers in Congress says to them. Obama had better worry more about creating jobs than nationalizing whole industries and the health care system. The public is tired of his lies and constant regurgitation of the BS his teleprompter puts in front of him to read.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 9:46 PM

Posted by: genewebster | August 9, 2009 1:03 PM
so, isolationism is one aspect of the new republican party, I understand that...
*****************************************

All you need to understand is the Republicans aren't pushing a socialist/Marxist, freedom destroying agenda like the Democrats and Obama. The public is seeing this now and that is why they are pounding Democrats at town hall meetings.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 9:40 PM

Posted by: smartgirl312 | August 9, 2009 3:43 PM
I've read these same angry writers in other spaces and in no way do I believe they are random posters, just dropping by wapo for a leisurely read. I'm convinced they are a group, organized for a single purpose--to prevent progress from occuring unless it occurs under a republican administration.
*****************************************

You keep clicking your heels together and wishing this is the truth. In reality the people at these town hall meetings are just your average hard working citizen that is fed up with the Democrats and their socialist/Marxist agenda. They see their power grab for just what it is and they will not stand by and let it happen. If you think things are bad now you watch what happens if the Democrats ram Obamacare down our throats. There will be mass demonstrations in the streets. Then the 2010 elections will spell the end for the Democrats controlling ANYTHING for a very long time. It might even be the beginning of the end for their viability as a political party. The members of Congress that live in the real world know this anger being expressed in the town hall meetings is real and has broad support. they get it. Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Frank, Dodd etc. have no clue just how much opposition is developing against them. They will very soon though if they don't stop pressing their socialist/Marxist agenda down our throats.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 9:35 PM

Posted by: seemstome | August 9, 2009 7:49 PM
I want to get on the Insurance corporation money train. Hook me up with some of that bribe money.
******************************************

It is far easier to get on the Obama taxpayer funded money train and the bribes are larger. just ask the CEOs of GM, Chrysler, AIG, Citi etc.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 9:27 PM

Posted by: askgees | August 9, 2009 7:59 PM
The first step to socialism is silencing the opposition. It would appear we're taking the first step. Obama is the 21st century Hitler. Be worried very worried.
******************************************

I agree 100%. Obama is turning out to be the greatest threat to our freedoms that this country has ever faced. The public has started to realize this now and it isn't a minute too late.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 9:22 PM

Posted by: mainetimes | August 9, 2009 8:38 PM
75% of Americans support publicly financed health care.
*******************************************

What an utter load of BS. You can type this lie as often as you wish and it will still be a lie.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 9:20 PM


Posted by: askgees | August 9, 2009 8:22 PM
so, isolationism is one aspect of the new republican party, I understand that...
and not helping others who can't help themselves is one way to live your life...
I really don't know why empathy with others is not in most republicans and conservatives thoughts...
*******************************************

You far left liberal wingnuts really think you have cornered the market on compassion. You thrive on dependency instead of enabling people to help themselves. You want to tear everyone down and make them dependent on the government for their survival. You can take that socialist model of society and shove it.

While you're at it try getting some common sense installed into your socialist mental programing. Obama's plan for this country is to put us into bankruptcy and devolve us into a third world standard of living with no ability to defend ourselves from foreign enemies. He is quite possibly the greatest threat this country has ever faced regarding the retention of our freedoms guaranteed by the Constitutional. He is methodically taking away our freedoms and showing ZERO respect for that document. What you are seeing in these town hall meetings is the PEOPLE fighting back against his socialist/Marxist agenda he and the Democrats are FORCING on the American people. We will not allow this to happen and the harder they push this garbage like Cap and Trade and Obamacare on us the harder we will resist.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 9:18 PM

Public universities.

Public libraries.

Publicly financed health care.

75% of Americans support publicly financed health care.

There are the educated ones, from public universities who use libraries.

75%.

Posted by: mainetimes | August 9, 2009 8:38 PM

so, isolationism is one aspect of the new republican party, I understand that...
and not helping others who can't help themselves is one way to live your life...
I really don't know why empathy with others is not in most republicans and conservatives thoughts...

The lack of empathy is very apparent in most Conservation/Republican 'talk show' people, like Bill and Rush....
I keep wondering if its genetic----If you don't care about others, and only care about yourself and ones like you---if you do tend to be more of a conservative or a republican...
Posted by: genewebster | August 9, 2009 1:03 PM
The first problem I have with your statement is, “Not helping others who can’t help them selves” Everyone is born equal and has the same resources at their disposal. It’s only one person’s fault that they cannot take care of them selves. THEM. If you chose not to pay attention in school and failed or dropped out then you have to live with you’re short comings. Don’t ask me to work harder to make up for you’re/there lack of ambition. If you wish to succeed then you must be willing to work hard for what you want. Anyone that feels we should all be equal regardless is obviously a failure and must make due SORRY. However there’s nothing preventing you wonderful upstanding LIBS from donating a portion of you’re salary or opening you’re home up to an indigent person. After all what’s the worst thing that could happen. Oh yea, they’ll murder you. Ignorance is bliss but LIB stup1dity is boundless.

Posted by: askgees | August 9, 2009 8:22 PM

The first step to socialism is silencing the opposition. It would appear we're taking the first step. Obama is the 21st century Hitler. Be worried very worried.

Posted by: askgees | August 9, 2009 7:59 PM

I want to get on the Insurance corporation money train. Hook me up with some of that bribe money. I can out rant anyone here.
For instance:
Did you know that Barry was in Cuba as a child? Yes, he has smoked that cigar with Fidel. Now he wants to bring the Cuban health care system to America!
What do you think? Now give me an email address so I can get on the insurance company bribe money bandwagon.
There's plenty to go around and they can raise premiums next year to get it back.

Posted by: seemstome | August 9, 2009 7:49 PM

"The ObamaCare Revolution Wages War on American Democracy"

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/13546

Posted by: Bubbette1 | August 9, 2009 4:47 PM

O'BombaCare;

Socialized
Clintonesque
Hillarycare for
Illegals-and their
Parents;

Expanded even more!

Soooooo...

Barry;

want some Cheese to go with that Whine?

Obasama bin Lyin! ;~)

Posted by: SAINT---The | August 9, 2009 4:20 PM

I've read these same angry writers in other spaces and in no way do I believe they are random posters, just dropping by wapo for a leisurely read. I'm convinced they are a group, organized for a single purpose--to prevent progress from occuring unless it occurs under a republican administration. I "could" put it another way, but I'll be kind. It's simple. Very simple and dangerously selfish, but also very very short-sited. They, not Obamacare, will be the end of us!!!

Posted by: smartgirl312 | August 9, 2009 3:43 PM

Take a look at the photo on the site below to see how concerned the flop eared clown in the White House is about seniors.
And, this is a friend of his.

The arrogant sleaze can't stop and help his buddy, because he's rushing out there to get his ugly mug in front of the television cameras, and do some more of his personal promotion B.S.

Also note that the policeman(who acted so stupidly) is helping the old gent get down the stairs.

Now stop and think how considerate the incompetent phony will be about your welfare.
Great preview of Obamacare.

If that doesn't scare you, look up some of the comments made by another clown, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the goon's brother, who advises the incompetent in chief on health care.

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/07/31/a-picture-says-a-thousand-words.php

Posted by: LarryG62 | August 9, 2009 2:48 PM

So the President says don't listen to the distractors of health care and the rumor mongering. He stated a few point he feels are distortions.
Notice how he NEVER addressed the fact that ILLEGAL ALIENS will have health care. He never even mentions it. Page 50 of the health care bill says nobody is excluded.
There are not 47 million Americans without health care. There are 17 million Americans and 30 million Illegal Aliens.
Why on Earth, Obama, are you asking us to pay for them?
Talk about an incentive for them to 'hop the fence'.

Posted by: BoGalvin | August 9, 2009 1:55 PM

HEALTH CARE RABBLE-ROUSERS: THE SPAWN OF AN AMERICAN GESTAPO

MSNBC's Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow got to the nub of these phony protests last week when they correctly connected the dots between the anti- health care zealots and the teabaggers, the 2000 election recount "Brooks Brothers" demonstrators, and other hard-right rabble-rousing.

Fact is, the foot soldiers in this phony, ginned-up street theater don't have to be paid by the health care lobbyists who are providing logistical support and public relations muscle to their supposedly spontaneous grassroots uprising. Fact is, many, if not most, of them appear to be affiliated with, and thus subsidized by, FEDERALLY-FUNDED community volunteer organizations...

...the same stormtrooper vigilantes that comprise a highly organized American Gestapo that works covertly with a secretive executive branch "multi-agency coordinated action program" to violate the civil and human rights of unjustly "targeted" neighbors -- making a mockery of the rule of law.

And victims report that silent, high-tech microwave/laser "directed energy weapons" are being used to degrade the very lives of the unjustly targeted.

Bottom line: President Obama's agenda appears to be the target of a campaign of political sabotage aided and abetted by a secretive executive branch "multi-agency coordinated action program" that operates below the radar of Team Obama, Congress, the judiciary, and the mainstream media.

Read the story that the mainstream media cannot or will not tell:

http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america

OR (if link is corrupted / disabled):

See "GESTAPO USA" at http://NowPublic.com/scrivener ("stream" or "stories" list).

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 9, 2009 1:25 PM

not mine. not mine. "...not mine. The actual number of AMERICAN CITIZENS that can't afford health care is a fraction of that 40 million you are referencing.
Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 12:45 PM "

so, isolationism is one aspect of the new republican party, I understand that...

and not helping others who can't help themselves is one way to live your life...

I really don't know why empathy with others is not in most republicans and conservatives thoughts...


The lack of empathy is very apparent in most Conservation/Republican 'talk show' people, like Bill and Rush....

I keep wondering if its genetic----If you don't care about others, and only care about yourself and ones like you---if you do tend to be more of a conservative or a republican...

Posted by: genewebster | August 9, 2009 1:03 PM

Posted by: genewebster | August 9, 2009 12:27 PM
you must not be one of the over 40 million
******************************************

That number is bogus. However feel free to pay for the insure of as many illegal aliens as you want WITH YOUR MONEY not mine. The actual number of AMERICAN CITIZENS that can't afford health care is a fraction of that 40 million you are referencing.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 12:45 PM

As the president points out, "the fight has become fiercer as the specifics of reform become clearer". This has been a Government campaign conducted with media tested sound-bites. The American people are asking for Government statements to be backed up with facts. The more information that is provided, the more questions that are being asked. The more questions that are being answered, the more concerned Americans are becoming about our Government's proposals.
The President states that it is very important that the American people have the facts. In reality the more facts the American people receive, the less supportive they are becoming toward the Government’s proposed solutions. It is hard to imagine how the American people will get the level of understanding and facts that they need when our own senators and representatives either don’t know the facts or don’t share the facts with their constituents.
The President’s reference to his goal as “health-insurance reform” rather than “health-care reform”, in-itself, limits our countries options. In almost every state, insurance regulations are in place to protect small businesses and individuals from losing their insurance coverage due to health issues. Even so, there is a lot of room for meaningful reform, that isn't even being considered, that exists between the Governments roll as insurance market regulator and the creation of a Single Payer Government Health Care Plan.
In almost every state, health insurance is attainable regardless of medical insurability. There are laws in place which prevent insurance companies from singling out individuals based on health history. The very use of this story by the President is an example of the irresponsible leadership that leads many people to believe that insurance companies drop individuals who have serious medical insurance as an industry practice. It just isn’t true. Here are a few questions for the President. Did your mother get quality care & treatment for her cancer? Was her treatment provided for in a timely manner? Did the insurance company pay the claims according? Do you, President Obama know that the United States has better cancer outcomes than any other nation? Do you think that your mother would have had a better chance of survival, better treatment, quicker treatment, more advanced treatment --under a single payer government plan?

Brian Jolles, Ellicott City, MD

Posted by: brian45 | August 9, 2009 12:43 PM

"...people negatively impacted to insure so few. Obamacare is like using a sledgehammer to drive in a finishing nail.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 12:18 PM "

you must not be one of the over 40 million

Posted by: genewebster | August 9, 2009 12:27 PM

Posted by: DEMOCRATZoORG | August 9, 2009 12:11 PM
The Republi KLAN party has to get put asunder by massive boycotts of companies that give money to their party and conservatives in the Democratic party.
*******************************************

Is there any companies left after excluding the companies Obama has bought with our tax dollars and the ones like General electric that have sold their souls to him.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 12:20 PM

Posted by: genewebster | August 9, 2009 12:01 PM
Conversation at town hall: .......
*******************************************

Under Obamacare, never before in human history has so much money proposed to be spent and people negatively impacted to insure so few. Obamacare is like using a sledgehammer to drive in a finishing nail.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 12:18 PM

The Republi KLAN party has to get put asunder by massive boycotts of companies that give money to their party and conservatives in the Democratic party.

Read our blog http://blog.democratz.org

and you will find out how to get health care we want

Posted by: DEMOCRATZoORG | August 9, 2009 12:11 PM

Conversation at town hall:

Conserve/Repub: "We don't want government controlling my health care!"

Dem/Liberal: "Are you saying that you Do have health care right now"

Conserve/Repub: "Yes, I HAVE A GOOD JOB AND I got good health care and I don't want the government telling me what to do!"

Dem/Liberal: "Do you know anyone the doesn't have health care?"

Conserve/Repub: "I DON'T KNOW AND I DON'T CARE!!!! THIS IS GOING EFFECT ME!!!!!"

Dem/Liberal: "..., but don't you know this will help the people that DON'T have any insurance..."

Conserve/Repub: "I DON'T KNOW AND I DON'T CARE!!!! THIS IS GOING EFFECT ME!!!!! ME!!!! ME!!!!!!!!!"

Posted by: genewebster | August 9, 2009 12:01 PM

Posted by: katem1 | August 9, 2009 8:53 AM
The most my husband and I have ever paid, and that's with two boys, was $74.00 a month, here in Canada. Who can afford $1200 a month?!
*******************************************

There is no free lunch. what are your tax rates in Canada compared to the USA? You pay far more in taxes than we do for health care. Stay dumb, taxed to death and happy up north. We don't want your screwed up health care system down here. BTW, feel free to use our health care system when a government bureaucrat decides you don't deserve the treatment you require to live. As Obama likes to say, why don't you sit down and shut up because you don't even live here but you sure like the benefits that come from our medical R&D in the private sector. Then again it is too bad that most times your wonderful government won't let Canadians have access to the latest treatments and technology because they can't afford it. I find it amazing that people in countries with nationalized health care roll over and die, literally and figuratively, just bust some bureaucrat says you don't deserve the proper medical treatment.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 11:39 AM

Posted by: deepthroat21 | August 9, 2009 5:52 AM
Color me stunned! ... Like, like ... WOW! Citizen Palin. ...... The 'gift that keeps on giving'. .... Luv You Sarie! .... Sincerely, .... Democrats everywhere.
*******************************************

Color you dumb is more accurate. This article is not about Palin.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 11:34 AM

Posted by: katem1 | August 9, 2009 8:53 AM
The most my husband and I have ever paid, and that's with two boys, was $74.00 a month, here in Canada. Who can afford $1200 a month?!
*******************************************

There is no free lunch. what are your tax rates in Canada compared to the USA? You pay far more in taxes than we do for health care. Stay dumb, taxed to death and happy up north. We don't want your screwed up health care system down here. BTW, feel free to use our health care system when a government bureaucrat decides you don't deserve. As Obama likes to say, why don't you sit down and shut up because you don't even live here but you sure like the benefits that come from our medical R&D in the private sector.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 11:32 AM

Poor little Obama, Whining again because Americans don't like his Health Take Over Plans.

Also at the Washington Post we refuse to point out that those arrested were SEIU thugs in support of Obama after they beat down a black man while using racial slurs. We here at the Washington Post know that if the black man beat up was an Obama supporter he would be more famous than Rodney King but since he wasn't it just isn't all that important. No what I'm sayin? Now shut up!

Posted by: robtr | August 9, 2009 11:01 AM

it would seem some of you are too caught up in the rhetoric of naysayers to really listen to yourselves. When I see $1200 a month health insurance payments being mentioned as par for the course right now for a couple, I'm appalled!!! The most my husband and I have ever paid, and that's with two boys, was $74.00 a month, here in Canada. Who can afford $1200 a month?!
For all of you idiots who think healthcare reform is bad, or evil, or socialist, all I can say is...time for your pill, dear.

Posted by: katem1 | August 9, 2009 8:53 AM

Color me stunned! ... Like, like ... WOW! Citizen Palin. ...... The 'gift that keeps on giving'. .... Luv You Sarie! .... Sincerely, .... Democrats everywhere.

Posted by: deepthroat21 | August 9, 2009 5:52 AM

Hypocrisy thy name is Obama.

Posted by: jpost1 | August 9, 2009 5:35 AM

Posted by: JRM2 | August 9, 2009 2:08 AM
Last time I checked some 200 Republican amendments made it into the house version, of course, they want this and then don't give a single vote.

Try to do some research before you just spit out idiotic statements.
*******************************************

What were they? Spelling and grammar corrections? Do you really think Pelosi, Reid or Obama want any meaningful Republican input or are they just looking for a rubber stamp from them? I would tell you to do some research but we both know you are addicted to the socialist Kool-Aid the Democrats serve to their supporters by the tanker truck load. Then the ones that are smart enough to not take their Kool-Aid are bribed with taxpayer's money.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 2:23 AM

"Other than "just words" he has done nothing whatsoever to craft a bi-partisan health bill"
----
Last time I checked some 200 Republican amendments made it into the house version, of course, they want this and then don't give a single vote.

Try to do some research before you just spit out idiotic statements.

Posted by: JRM2 | August 9, 2009 2:08 AM

"I guess you'll have to bath in my intellect again"
Posted by: JohnQuimby
----
That would be "bathe" Mr. Intellect

Posted by: JRM2 | August 9, 2009 2:01 AM

@ hypercommunist

Interesting post but Obama has already jumped the shark. He has blown his credibility and it has been building to this crescendo ever since he crammed the Stimulus Bill down our throats and lied about how it would keep the unemployment rate under 8%. Then the House crammed the Climate Bill down our throats and the average person will not let Obama and the Democrats in Congress do the same on health care. If the Democrats think they can't speak in a public forum now wait and see what happens if they cram health care through. They won't be able to have another open attendance public appearance until they are voted out of office in 2010. This so called "astroturf" movement they are trying to marginalize is the real deal. It is a tsunami that will wash them away if they keep up with the same tactics they are using now or they ram this health care debacle through approval.

The people at these meetings aren't just mad over health care. They are angry about the lack of any meaningful stimulus from Obama and the Democrats in control of Congress. They are angry about the continual bailouts of corporations. They are angry about the payoffs to unions. They are angry about about Obama's knee jerk reaction to the matter in Cambridge. They are angry about the total show of arrogance by Pelosi, Reid and Obama. They are angry about continually being lied to by the people elected to look out for their interests. They are particularly angry about the trashing of the Constitution and the erosion of their freedoms that are granted by it and earned from the spilled blood of patriots.

It isn't hard for the Democrats to know what they have done is terribly wrong. They have taken the public's trust and abused it severely and without remorse. Then when they are called on it they lash out at the vary people that put them in that position of responsibility and authority. They have squandered the public's trust in a lame attempt to establish their full control over the population through the application of socialism. What the Democrats have attempted is tantamount to a soft coup that would make Hugo Chavez proud. The past few weeks have given me hope that the greatness of this country has not been lost. It lives in the people that make up the core of our population and is the same people that are showing up to these town hall meetings. For every person attending these meeting there are multitudes more that share their feelings and thoughts. The more the Democrats try to silence them the louder they will roar and the greater their number will increase.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 2:01 AM

Wild charges about Obama's unamericanism, hysterical fear and outrage from the white heartland, ugly caricatures and whisper campaigns... sound familiar? Isn't this a bit like "Obama is a secret Muslim / Socialist / terrorist sympathiser" episode that broke out last year?

The fear and opposition to the health-care reform is spontaneous, not astroturf. But it's not really about the health-care issue at all. It is fueled by an enormous anger and resentment provoked by Obama's Gates/Crowley gaffe.

The aloof, smarter-than-thou black president immediately took the side of the arrogant, angry, condescending black Harvard professor, against the honest, hard-working, white policeman. Not only that, Obama called the cop "stupid". Obama's polling amongst whites plunged (especially amongst the hard-done-by strivers of the white lower middle class who Richard Nixon had so completely channelled). Suddenly, Obama seems strange, scary, foreign (probably born in Kenya for that matter) - what Sarah Palin might call not "a real American".

Why is this manifesting itself on the health care issue? Because the issue itself is also scary. It's life and death, it's terribly intimate, and it touches every American. But the fear is coming from this culturally coded issue of race, of otherness. That's why its erupting in such a violent and surreal way.

My advice to the president: find a backdrop of police officers (perhaps some who have retained their jobs due to stimulus spending) and praise the boys in blue to the sky. Slip in a understated but explicit apology to Crowley, for rushing to judge the situation, and for getting it wrong.

Posted by: hypercommunist | August 9, 2009 1:18 AM

No Really, I'm out.

But I do have a budget priced Australian Chardonnay to toast you good night.

Asante.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 9, 2009 12:22 AM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 9, 2009 12:12 AM
Now I'm gone. I'm signing off. Have fun.
Auf Wiedersehen, so long.

I'll drink to your good health.

God knows you'll need it.
*******************************************

Are you sure you are leaving this time? I have heard this before.

Don't bother drinking to my good health because of any concern over my access to health care. I have very good private insurance.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 12:20 AM


Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 9, 2009 12:06 AM
AIG tanked.

AIG was bailed out with a bill written by the former head of Goldman Sachs under president Bush who signed OFF on it.

And these are the guys you WANT in charge of your health insurance.

Too funny.
*****************************************

Are you too thick to realize that all the things you complain about Bush doing, Obama is doing 10X as much? And you want to put Obama in charge of your health care?!?!

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 9, 2009 12:17 AM

OK -

Now I'm gone. I'm signing off. Have fun.
Auf Wiedersehen, so long.

I'll drink to your good health.

God knows you'll need it.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 9, 2009 12:12 AM

AIG tanked.

AIG was bailed out with a bill written by the former head of Goldman Sachs under president Bush who signed OFF on it.

And these are the guys you WANT in charge of your health insurance.

Too funny.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 9, 2009 12:06 AM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 11:54 PM
I can't help it if you can't read.
*******************************************

I can't help it if you have no common sense.

Didn't you say good night? Are you up past your bedtime. Don't let your Mother catch you on the computer.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 11:57 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 11:50 PM
The AIG payout came from BUSH in September 2008 - as I already posted.
*******************************************

Did Obama vote for the first TARP bill? Hmmmm, I seem to remember he did and just how much money did they receive under Obama's watch. How many banks got bailed out under Obama and how many Auto companies has Obama bought with our tax dollars? You should have stopped before you gave me this sledgehammer to beat you with.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 11:55 PM

I can't help it if you can't read.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 11:54 PM

I disagree, visionbrkr - but it's probably a point of semantics.

To me, a takeover would mean that the US Government competes in the market against private companies. That's not what is in the H.R. bill.

In the past, I would equate HR3200 with banking regulations - but, of course, We The People *have* taken over a few banks recently :). Thank goodness it's not a long-term deal - or, at least, I sincerely *hope* it isn't! Capitalism does a good job of... Well... Generating capital, as long as it's more unrealistic assumptions are supported by law.


I won't deny that I am not as concerned about the *spectre* of socialized medicine as many are, though - simply because things like social costs and general welfare aren't captured very well by the free market system. In general the insurance market preforms well - but health care has so many grey areas that it lends itself to practices that are good for business, but bad for the general welfare of its recipients.


Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 2:20 PM


------------------------------------------

sorry i was away but the simple point is, once you "take over healthcare" like you've taken over the banks, there's no going back, or at least i don't see a way to go back. that's why you'd better be 1000% sure that its the right thing to do and many americans don't want that. Again every poll says about 75% of Americans are happy with their private plans, they just wish they cost less.

Posted by: visionbrkr | August 8, 2009 11:52 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 11:48 PM
Care to cite any facts there Mike?

Guess you'll have to bath in my intellect again.
*******************************************

When have you cared about facts? Bathing in your intellect is like trying to get a sunburn from a night light.


Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 11:52 PM

The AIG payout came from BUSH in September 2008 - as I already posted.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 11:50 PM

Care to cite any facts there Mike?

Guess you'll have to bath in my intellect again.


Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 11:48 PM

Posted by: austininc4 | August 8, 2009 10:42 PM
The Insurance Lobbyist are spending Millions to keep Health Care Reform from becoming Law.
*******************************************

I guess you will find it ironic, and accordingly demoralizing, that Obama has given over $100 BILLION of taxpayer money to AIG, THE LARGEST INSURANCE COMPANY IN THE WORLD!!!!!

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 11:48 PM

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 10:56 PM
Of course, this president is also creating an awful number of "czars" who hold positions with quasi-cabinet power, and I don't particularly like that trend (though it certainly has happened during similar circumstances in the past, like the Great Depression).
*******************************************

The only thing I can say about Obama without any doubt is that he knows how to read a teleprompter. Turn the sound off during one of his speeches and you would swear he is a spectator at a tennis match.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 11:44 PM

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 11:32 PM
Actually, in one way you are right. I was incorrect
*******************************************

It takes a big man to admit this.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 11:40 PM


Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 11:24 PM
Mike is a socialist:

Those breakthroughs are most often funded by - (wait for it) Public Universities!
*******************************************

Are you too ignorant to know much of the research financing at these universities comes from the private sector. Then you completely ignore the R&D done in the private sector.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 11:33 PM

Mikej1996 writes:
"Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 10:59 PM
I hope you realize that you just torpedoed your own, earlier argument here? Saved me the time of replying to it, though, except retroactively...
*******************************************

You are one dimensional in your thinking. What I stated shows the flexibility our health care system."
-------------------------------------------
Actually, in one way you are right. I was incorrect; the statement about Canada's system doesn't torpedo your argument - but it doesn't prove anything about flexibility, either - as any Canadians coming to the US won't be using the "flexible" US health insurance system. (Flexible in quotes, as US health insurance is not employment-portable, and has a limited selection of service points in many plans).

Of course, you still haven't provided a single link to support any of your opinions or suppositions - even the big ones, like how US research will dwindle significantly under a different health insurance system. I am not saying that you are absolutely wrong - but presenting an unsupported argument is no more useful than you telling me what's causing variances in Betelgeuse's visible intensity without pointing at some objective professional observation somewhere.

You are unlikely to sway anyone unless you can show some kind of backing to your claims.

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 11:32 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 11:18 PM
In the US, 45 million people have no health insurance. (source - LA Times)
*******************************************

... and why should I be expected ro pay for your health care and in return see the quality of my health care service greatly reduced? If you think this is a huge problem then go find a family that is uninsured and BUY THEM HEALTH INSURANCE. No one is stopping you and no one is preventing these people from getting medical care. They might have to sit in an emergency room or a free clinic but they can get care.

... and please, stop lying about the 45 million uninsured. When it comes to AMERICAN CITIZENS that number drops to well under 10% of the population. You are trying to give a large percentage of the Mexican population health insurance on our dime.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 11:27 PM

Mike is a socialist:

"What country does most of the medical breakthroughs come from? The advancement of the medical field is where much of the expense comes from in this country."

Those breakthroughs are most often funded by -

(wait for it) Public Universities!

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 11:24 PM

Mike said:

"Rationing of health care services happens IN EVERY COUNTRY that has nationalized health care systems. That is a huge inconvenient truth you can't make disappear no matter how much you try and it kills hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people every year."

Rationing health care is the hallmark of US private insurance companies. That's what HMO's DO. Ask your doctor. She won't see you if you:

a) don't have insurance.
b) don't have insurance she serves.
c) have a plan that slow pays or refuses to pay after treatment/service is delivered.

Not to mention that you can be dropped or refused coverage even if you've paid for insurance. The fact that millions of people in the US don't have health care they can count on - even if they paid for
it - is the REALITY of rationing right now.

In addition, health care only covers those who can pay for it.

In the US, 45 million people have no health insurance. (source - LA Times)

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 11:18 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 10:27 PM
Do you know how to tell when Mike is losing an argument?

GOOD NIGHT NOW!
*******************************************

Let me sit here and bath in the awesomeness of your amazing intellect. LOL!!!

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 11:18 PM


Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 10:59 PM
I hope you realize that you just torpedoed your own, earlier argument here? Saved me the time of replying to it, though, except retroactively...
*******************************************

You are one dimensional in your thinking. What I stated shows the flexibility our health care system. What country does most of the medical breakthroughs come from? The advancement of the medical field is where much of the expense comes from in this country. How many more people survive a heart attack today compared to the 1950s? Do you think that happened without any expenditures of money? This is the case with almost every disease and illness we can contract. You can try and trash our medical system but in actuality is has proven to be a major success in the treatment and cure rate for many diseases. If the system is ever nationalized this rate of improvement and innovation will grind to a halt.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 11:14 PM

Posted by: austininc4 | August 8, 2009 10:42 PM
They are on the Wrong side of History, and
lose a lot of seats in the next election.
*******************************************

Watch the outcome of the 2009 gubernatorial elections in Virginia and NJ and get back to me on Republicans losing seats in the 2010 midterm election. If unemployment doesn't improve by then the Democrats will be slaughtered at the polls.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 11:02 PM

"If you think nationalized health care is good for you then move to Canada. Then again, you would have to move there because that is the only way you can get it."
--------------------------------------

I hope you realize that you just torpedoed your own, earlier argument here? Saved me the time of replying to it, though, except retroactively...

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 10:59 PM

"Obama is the laziest politicians, bar none, that I have ever seen serve in any political capacity. He has done NOTHING as far as crafting legislation"
--------------------------------------------

The President heads the Executive branch of the US government. This branch doesn't generally craft legislation - that's the job of Congress. It's one of the many recent Executive branch encroachments on the Constitutional balance of powers that bothers me - and, apparently, bothers this president.

Of course, this president is also creating an awful number of "czars" who hold positions with quasi-cabinet power, and I don't particularly like that trend (though it certainly has happened during similar circumstances in the past, like the Great Depression).

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 10:56 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 10:47 PM
They don't.
*******************************************

Actually, they do. Why is that? Could it be they can't afford the time to be on a waiting list for months, or years, on end waiting to get approval for treatment? Rationing of health care services happens IN EVERY COUNTRY that has nationalized health care systems. That is a huge inconvenient truth you can't make disappear no matter how much you try and it kills hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people every year. If you think nationalized health care is good for you then move to Canada. Then again, you would have to move there because that is the only way you can get it. We don't have such limitations here.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 10:55 PM

Why is it that the only links on this web page that point to university and medical studies all come down on the side of a broken US health care plan?

I have yet to see a single link to a peer-reviewed journal by anyone convinced of the superiority of the current US health care system. Not a one. I see lots of numbers - but absolutely no backing for any of them.

The closest anyone has come is to say, "Well, I could link sites, but I wont!" Why do I feel like I am listening to my 6th-graders?

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 10:48 PM

Thanks for this Mike:

"Answer me this..... Why do Canadians come to the USA for treatment in FAR greater numbers than Americans go to Canada for treatment?"

They don't.

But how many Americans have moved to Canada for health care?

This argument isn't about Canada's health care. It's about whether government health care works.

It does.

Canada and England and Japan the rest of the civilized world have it and they're not broke or run by Nazis.

So what's your problem?

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 10:47 PM

The Insurance Lobbyist are spending Millions to keep Health Care Reform from becoming Law. They will be sadly disappointed to learn,,,,,,this Bill shall be Law.

The Republican Party has is watching their future go down the Drain, and they just don't get it.

They are on the Wrong side of History, and
lose a lot of seats in the next election.

Posted by: austininc4 | August 8, 2009 10:42 PM

"Do you know how to tell when a liberal is losing his argument? They play the race card."

Do you know how to tell when Mike is losing an argument?

GOOD NIGHT NOW!

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 10:27 PM

Mike said:

"I see you conveniently left out the vast number of foreigners that come to the USA for medical treatment. At least be intellectually honest when replying."

Vast numbers of foreigners? Give me an actual number and a source for that claim if you can.

I'm not going to do your research for you.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 9:58 PM

Posted by: danw1 | August 8, 2009 9:44 PM
FYI, for the record, I voted for George Bush.
********************************************

How is that relevant to what you say here? Did you vote for Obama? If you did would you do it again tomorrow. If you would then what has he done to impress you? Anyone that voted for Bush over Gore or Kerry surely isn't liberal enough to think Obama is governing from anywhere near the center. Or did you vote for Obama for the same reason Collin Powell did? Because he is black and nothing else about him mattered?

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 9:52 PM

FYI, for the record, I voted for George Bush.

Posted by: danw1 | August 8, 2009 9:44 PM

Posted by: danw1 | August 8, 2009 9:07 PM
Sounds more like "Fear of a Black Planet" than fear of insurance reform to me.
*******************************************

Do you know how to tell when a liberal is losing his argument? They play the race card. In case you haven't noticed, WE HAVE A BLACK PRESIDENT!!! Playing the race card just doesn't have the same affect as it used to. Is there anything else in your bag of liberal BS you can throw on the table?

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 9:37 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 8:49 PM
"Researchers have confirmed that:

* In 2006, about 150,000 American citizens traveled to Asia and Latin America for medical treatment.
* In 2007, the figure increased to approximately 300,000.
*****************************************

I see you conveniently left out the vast number of foreigners that come to the USA for medical treatment. At least be intellectually honest when replying.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 9:22 PM

Sounds more like "Fear of a Black Planet" than fear of insurance reform to me.

Posted by: danw1 | August 8, 2009 9:07 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 8:49 PM
Go for it. These independent reports were combined for analysis by health professionals...not some guy on a blog.
********************************************

Answer me this..... Why do Canadians come to the USA for treatment in FAR greater numbers than Americans go to Canada for treatment?

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 9:06 PM

Posted by: BruceMcDougall | August 8, 2009 8:55 PM
Other than "just words" he has done nothing whatsoever to craft a bi-partisan health bill.
********************************************

Obama is the laziest politicians, bar none, that I have ever seen serve in any political capacity. He has done NOTHING as far as crafting legislation and is rarely in the Oval Office where he should be working on solving this nation's massive problems. i bet he doesn't put in more than two hours of good, worthwhile, hard work a day during the week. On the weekends he is playing golf, basketball or having $1 million date night with his wife. We don't have a president. We have a figurehead that goes around reading a teleprompter and waving like the queen of the fair in a parade.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 9:03 PM

"Just words....."

Apparently that's about all that President Obama has because he's starting to look like the most partisan president in some time.

His promises of bi-partisanship are indeed just words to him.

Other than "just words" he has done nothing whatsoever to craft a bi-partisan health bill.
The Democratic leadership and the President are just saying: We don't need their votes.

They don't want to listen to Republicans despite the fact that Mitt Romney brought in universal health care to Massachusetts without a government option or and attack on Medicare.
They can't talk to him-he's a Republican.

Pathetic. When Ronald Reagan reformed Social Security he achieved that goal by being bi-partisan. republicans and Democrats worked together to achieve a compromise.

With Obama and the present-day leadership of the Democrtic Party it's my way or the highway.


Posted by: BruceMcDougall | August 8, 2009 8:55 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 8:03 PM
I hope you never get cancer Mike.
********************************************

I hope I don't either and the same goes for you. I also hope I don't get cancer and have to rely on Obamacare to decide when, what, and even if I get treatment. The mortality rate from cancer in Canada is 16% higher than the USA. Right off the bat I have a 16% better chance of survival under our CURRENT health care system in the USA. I have insurance and it would not cost me $100,000 for treatment.

Besides, if you think health care is expensive now, just wait until it is free.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 8:54 PM

MikeJ9116 said:

"...and I could link to 40 web site/reports to refute your 38."

Go for it. These independent reports were combined for analysis by health professionals...not some guy on a blog.

"The fact is Canadians, and many other nationalities, come to the USA for health care treatment in far greater numbers than US citizens go there for treatment."

That's your opinion. Care to show us some facts? Never mind, I've got some:

"Researchers have confirmed that:

* In 2006, about 150,000 American citizens traveled to Asia and Latin America for medical treatment.
* In 2007, the figure increased to approximately 300,000.
* By 2010, experts say the number can increase to over 1 million."
(see http://www.health-tourism.com/medical-tourism/usa-research/)

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 8:49 PM

Posted by: seemstome | August 8, 2009 8:10 PM
Lets call mike by his true name, insurance corporation stooge. Enough charades. If I see him at the meetings he will be the one wearing the thousand dollar suit. But he won't be there.
*******************************************

Let's call you by your true name, an Obamabot that can't think for himself or appreciate the freedoms he has that were paid for by the blood of patriots. You can't comprehend the FACT that the masses of people in this country have, and are seeing, Obama for what he truly is. that being a socialist/Marxist liar that campaigned on lies and continues to govern based on lies. You are quickly becoming the 20% liberal minority of the population where you rightly belong. Obama's lies can only get him so far and now his run for creating a socialist society in this country is coming to an end. I hope you enjoyed this run based on deceit and lies while it lasted because that time has passed and the American people are speaking out and taking back their constitutionally granted freedoms from their oppressor Democrat politicians. Just look at the gubernatorial races in Virginia and New Jersey if you need proof this is occurring.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 8:48 PM

The President needs to look in the mirror, big-time. First he boldly proclaims that the economy is so bad quick passage of his stimulus package is needed to avoid major long-term damage to our economy. Then, two key members of his cabinet and the Vice President tell us the Administration didn't realize earlier this year how bad things were. Which is it?

Now we hear that the White House plan for economic recovery is founded on health a care reform bill that could cost $2 Trillion over 10 years, while the stimulus package alone has left us with the highest federal budget deficit in history. How does that work?

Bash your critics, blame your predecessor, downplay costs, and summon the head of the supposedly independent Congressional Budget Office to the White House after the fact released by the CBO reveal that you're not being forthright about the economic damage your programs will render.

Look in the mirror Mr. President. So what if some people are shouting and are angry. You would be too if you were being so clearly lied to.

Posted by: JHG_sec405 | August 8, 2009 8:39 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 8:15 PM
"I have and what you state isn't the truth."

I didn't state it. An analysis of 38 separate reports peer reviewed by doctors did. Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 8:15 PM
********************************************

.... and I could link to 40 web site/reports to refute your 38. The fact is Canadians, and many other nationalities, come to the USA for health care treatment in far greater numbers than US citizens go there for treatment. Why is that? You don't need a PhD or 38 reports to figure out the right answer.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 8:38 PM

Posted by: seemstome | August 8, 2009 8:15 PM
Mike the freedom to swing your arms stops at another man's nose but in your case I would definitely make an exception - several times.
********************************************

My freedom to question my elected officials is guaranteed by the Constitution. You are assuming what my behavior will be in a town hall setting. This is typical liberal knee jerk reaction. I suggest that you stop stereotyping people and worry about the loss of your freedoms too. Trying to make all these people attending town halls as part of a mob just shows how thin your argument is against them. They are people that feel their voices are being ignored and if they wait until the next election to vote these socialist/Marxists out of office it will be too late.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 8:33 PM

Mike the freedom to swing your arms stops at another man's nose but in your case I would definitely make an exception - several times.

Posted by: seemstome | August 8, 2009 8:15 PM

"I have and what you state isn't the truth."

I didn't state it. An analysis of 38 separate reports peer reviewed by doctors did. Here's the link again:

http://www.openmedicine.ca/article/view/8/1

If you read the report you'll also find it suggests that the greater population and buying power of the States could lower costs even further while covering a larger number of people.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 8:15 PM

Lets call mike by his true name, insurance corporation stooge. Enough charades. If I see him at the meetings he will be the one wearing the thousand dollar suit. But he won't be there.

Posted by: seemstome | August 8, 2009 8:10 PM

I hope you never get cancer Mike.

If you do you could chose to pay for it in the US and it could cost you $100,000.00. The costs for cancer treatment in the US are going up %15 per year.
(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23783216/)
Not all treatment is covered by private insurance. You could be denied an effective but more expensive treatment by your insurance company.

If you were covered by Canadian health care, your treatment would be paid for and you could file for unemployment. You could also carry supplemental insurance.

You wouldn't have to worry about being dropped by Health Canada and you wouldn't have to lose your income or your home while getting treatment.

Your family would also remain covered.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 8:03 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 7:42 PM
Percentage wise, Health Canada covers more people for less money and does it better than private insured health care systems in the US.

Look it up.
*******************************************

I have and what you state isn't the truth.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 7:59 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 7:42 PM
95% of 33 million citizens are covered by Health Canada.
********************************************

... and here in the USA over 90% of our citizens are covered. You think that going into debt trillions of dollars just to cover another 5% of the population makes any economic sense? The real reason for this so called health care emergency is so government can get control of 1/7th of our economy and gain huge amounts of control over the population. This isn't about covering the uninsured as that is a simple problem to solve and it doesn't cost trillions of dollars to do it.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 7:58 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 7:42 PM
Government run health care is providing the same or better outcomes in Canada than the current US system.
********************************************

Posting this doesn't make it true. This is just more socialist/Marxist/liberal propaganda meant to keep the truth from being heard. Canada rations health care and this costs lives. There is no denying this. I don't see anyone from the USA going to Canada for medical treatment but there are multitudes of Canadians coming to the USA for treatment. All it takes is a little common sense to know why this occurs. It is because they can't get timely, high quality treatment in the Canadian health care system. If they waited they would probably be dead or permanently disabled from their disease.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 7:49 PM

Government run health care is providing the same or better outcomes in Canada than the current US system.

95% of 33 million citizens are covered by Health Canada.

Percentage wise, Health Canada covers more people for less money and does it better than private insured health care systems in the US.

Look it up.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 7:42 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 7:28 PM
Some hard facts on Canada vs US Health Care....
********************************************

Here is another hard fact: The death rate from cancer is 16% greater in Canada than it is in the USA. I guess all is good if you don't happen to land in that 16%. I'll let Canada have their cut-rate health care system and I'll keep my 16% great chance of surviving cancer with our current health care system being left intact. You get what you pay for and health care is no different in this regard than any other good or service.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 7:34 PM

Posted by: JohnDoug | August 8, 2009 5:33 PM
Can anyone explain in 100 words or less what the fundamentals of the proposed health care legislation actually are?
*******************************************

I can. It is to ration health care and put a government bureaucrat in charge of whether you get to live or die based on your economic worth to the State. This is the end game for the Democrat socialist/Marxists peddling this garbage legislation. The American people know this and will not allow it. Just listen to the words from the mouths of Obama, Barney Frank and many other Democrats to know this is true. Don't believe their lies. Look into their past comments for the real true of their ultimate agenda.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 7:28 PM

Seemstome:

Some hard facts on Canada vs US Health Care from a meta analyzing the results of 38 independent studies comparing health outcomes in the US and Canada:
http://www.openmedicine.ca/article/view/8/1

Short version: Canada's health care system has slightly better outcomes and costs much less than US health care.

"The United States also spends far more on health care, i.e., approximately 15% of its gross domestic product versus about 10% in Canada. In 2003, Americans spent an estimated US$5,635 per capita on health care, while Canadians spent US$3,003."

This means that government run health care saved Canadians an average of US$2,632.00 per person in 2003.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 7:28 PM

Posted by: JohnDoug | August 8, 2009 5:33 PM
Can anyone explain in 100 words or less what the fundamentals of the proposed health care legislation actually are?
*********************************************

I can. It is to ration health care and put a government bureaucrat in charge of whether you get to live or die based on you economic worth to the State. This is the end game for the Democrat socialist/Marxists peddling this garbage legislation. The American people know this and will not allow it. Just listen to the words from the mouths of Obama, Barney Frank and many other Democrats to know this is true. Don't believe their lies. Look into their past comments for the real true of their ultimate agenda.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 7:27 PM

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 6:43 PM
That's why the president singled out the insurance companies in today's address.
*******************************************

Obama has singled out the insurance companies because his previous plan of attack got him nowhere. The polls told him to attack the insurance companies and the public won't buy his latest lies. Obama knows his support is evaporating fast on numerous fronts and he is desperately trying to find something that will win some of it back. All I can tell him is attacking the public for expressing their rights to free speech will only make him less popular and might damage him irrevocably. Obama should be running away from Reid and Pelosi but since he is a socialist/Marxist too they will all go down together.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 7:18 PM

The deal is done with pharmaceuticals, doctors and hospitals - they've all agreed to lower costs by billions of dollars a year.

The holdouts are the guys at health insurance providers like AIG (http://www.aig.com/personal-health_20_20757.html)which got an 85 billion dollar bailout from Bush in September 08.

That's why the president singled out the insurance companies in today's address.

Posted by: JohnQuimby | August 8, 2009 6:43 PM

Posted by: seemstome | August 8, 2009 5:46 PM
“The problem with not getting involved with politics is we end up being ruled by our inferiors.” Plato. ...
Someone has to stand up to the Mikes at these meetings. As much as I hate to do it I guess I will. How about you?
*******************************************

I hope you do come to these meetings. Just leave the union and ACORN thugs in their cages.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 6:41 PM

Posted by: seemstome | August 8, 2009 5:29 PM
Mike, if you go into a public meeting and speak out of turn and continue to speak after your time is up, you will be thrown out of the meeting. Everyone has the right to be heard. Your right to swing your arms ends at your neighbors nose.
*******************************************

Unfortunately, this is about the only way these arrogant socialist/Marxist congressional members can be made to understand how much the public is fed up with their BS. Why let them stand up there in front of us and perpetuate one lie after the next? They need to be called out right as the lies pass their lips. Otherwise they will never understand the public's outrage over their backing of Obama, Reid and Pelosi's socialist/Marxist agenda. They will also never realize that "We the People" will not accept anything less than honest when they address us.

To quote Thomas Jefferson:

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. "

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. "

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

That last quote should be read by everyone and taken to heart. It was written by one of the greatest founding fathers of this country and is as applicable today as it was 230 years ago.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 6:34 PM


An online version of the entire bill is available at the Congressional website:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

A link there will take you to a PDF version at the Government Printing Office.

The link below is to a four-page summary of the 1017 page bill.

===============

JohnDoug posted:

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/hr3200_summary.pdf

Here is a link to the bill if anyone cares to read it

Posted by: WylieD | August 8, 2009 6:32 PM

Posted by: donaldtucker | August 8, 2009 5:36 PM
to mikej9116,if obama was a marxist,socialist or nazi has some have called him.you would not be at your computer making such statements.but you probly already know this.[big brother knows where you are and who you are courtesy of george bush and friends]
*******************************************

I am able to make such statements because Obama hasn't yet turned this country into the USSA (United Socialist States of America) and I will fight him until the end to make sure this never happens as are many other Americans. I have never in my life seen a sitting president attack private American citizens like Obama has or to tell people to "shut up" instead of expressing their rights to free speech under the US Constitution. Obama IS a socialist/Marxist and his actions show it everyday. I suggest you wake up and see reality before the Constitution is made completely irrelevant and our freedoms are stolen from us by Obama, Reid, Pelosi and their socialist/Marxist comrades in Congress.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 6:19 PM

Lets make those thieves in the insurance business sorry they used our money (1.5 million $ a day) to try to stop us from getting a viable public option.

Posted by: rooster54 | August 8, 2009 6:14 PM

Being from Alaska I can assure you most here consider the former Governor's remarks little more than electronic baby dangeling.

Posted by: graykeeper | August 8, 2009 6:09 PM


You've got to admire Obama for exploiting the death of his own mother.

Posted by: WylieD | August 8, 2009 6:07 PM

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/hr3200_summary.pdf

Here is a link to the bill if anyone cares to read it

Posted by: JohnDoug | August 8, 2009 6:03 PM

Mrs. Palin neglected to mention her own record in looking out for the elderly and disabled in Alaska. From the July 14 issue of the Anchorage Daily News:

"State programs intended to help disabled and elderly Alaskans with daily life -- taking a bath, eating dinner, getting to the bathroom -- are so poorly managed, the state cannot assure the health and well-being of the people they are supposed to serve, a new federal review found.

"The situation is so bad the federal government has forbidden the state to sign up new people until the state makes necessary improvements.

"No other state in the nation is under such a moratorium, according to a spokeswoman for the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services."

Her hypocrisy is "evil."

Posted by: BlueDog1 | August 8, 2009 5:56 PM


Aggressive and abrasive, appealing to emotions instead of reason. He sounds more like Bush every day.

Posted by: WylieD | August 8, 2009 5:55 PM

“The problem with not getting involved with politics is we end up being ruled by our inferiors.” Plato. ...
Someone has to stand up to the Mikes at these meetings. As much as I hate to do it I guess I will. How about you?

Posted by: seemstome | August 8, 2009 5:46 PM

to mikej9116,if obama was a marxist,socialist or nazi has some have called him.you would not be at your computer making such statements.but you probly already know this.[big brother knows where you are and who you are courtesy of george bush and friends]

Posted by: donaldtucker | August 8, 2009 5:36 PM

Can anyone explain in 100 words or less what the fundamentals of the proposed health care legislation actually are?

Posted by: JohnDoug | August 8, 2009 5:33 PM

Mike, if you go into a public meeting and speak out of turn and continue to speak after your time is up, you will be thrown out of the meeting. Everyone has the right to be heard. Your right to swing your arms ends at your neighbors nose.
Yelling slogans so that others cannot be heard is not free speech.
It can be considered disorderly conduct to incite a riot.

Posted by: seemstome | August 8, 2009 5:29 PM

we are going to get a health care reform bill with or without the republicans. and my bet is two years the only one this will effect is the noninsured we have now. there will be no effect on anyone that has GOOD insurance.

Posted by: donaldtucker | August 8, 2009 5:23 PM

The people calling Obama, Reid and Pelosi socialist/Marxist are just calling a spade a spade. As Obama said himself, you can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig. He can try to lie to us about how he is not a socialist/Marxist but his actions show us that he is one. Like it or not the overwhelming majority of the people in this country respect our Constitution and the freedoms it guarantees every American. Obama has shown absolutely zero respect for that document and cr@p$ on it every chance he gets. I will no longer stand by and let this continue. I will attend all public meetings of my District Congressman and any Senator meetings open to the public and make my voice heard. It is my CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT and even Obama, Reid and Pelosi cannot take this away from me.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 5:15 PM

I want Obama to join with his Acorn folks and then go to Hell! How in the world would anyone ever vote to 'bama again. This man is certainly not Presidental material. This President isn't a President since his is not a natural born citizen of the United States. Go back where you came from and leave us alone.

Posted by: elainekramer | August 8, 2009 5:15 PM

"I keep hearing how Obama is a socialist or marxist or communist (and sometimes, even a nazi!). Posted by: MekhongKurt1 "

Note that the people calling him these names are themselves awfully reminiscent of the Brown Shirts. When may we expect a putsch? October?

Posted by: ceflynline | August 8, 2009 5:04 PM

The votes are already bought and paid for by the insurance corporations. The senate is all set. Now the propaganda machine has switched to "teabagging" or organized shouting matches at public hearings.
Next will come questionable polls denouncing public health care by large margins.
Full time coverage of these manufactured events will shore up the decision already reached to vote against the public option by key members of the senate.
Next year the rates of premiums will go sky high as these "administrative costs" are recovered.
Oh, Canada.

Posted by: seemstome | August 8, 2009 5:03 PM

Unfortunately most people are "sheep" and don't research both sides of an argument. MANY Dems and those of the GOP are HIGHLY paid by the health care industry and will say ANYTHING they need to in order to keep THEMSELVES paid. Their policy is not about us it's about them. I hope it gets passed!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

Posted by: Gooddad | August 8, 2009 4:54 PM

I don't know what's so hard to get. Obama has suggested a public -- single-payer -- *option,* one among several. I do think there might need to be some sort of income cap to qualify for a public option, so people wouldn't jump on the gravy train, even those who don't need it -- and so large employers wouldn't dump their employees onto it. Another is for anyone happy with their current insurance, wherever they get it, to stay with it, if they wish. Those are just two possibilities, and they're *not* mutually exclusive.

I keep hearing how Obama is a socialist or marxist or communist (and sometimes, even a nazi!). If things like health care reform fits into one of those and we need to reject such reform, then we also need to ditch, oh, say -- how about agricultural subsidies? How about tax breaks to entice companies to invest in a given area? How about those evil, communist programs such as social security, Medicare/Medicaid, President Bush's No Child Left Behind program? You know -- all those giveaway programs run out of Washington. And let's not forget federal money for unemplyment benefits.

The lot needs to go onto the chopping block, I guess.

Might as well forget the interstate highway system, too. Maybe extravagances such as NASA. And so on.

All told, I pay almost exactly 40% of my gross income in taxes, pay it to a mix of over 30 agencies, all told. I live abroad, with no dependents of mine living in the U.S. (though I do have tax-paying relatives there). So, except on the rare occasion I visit the U.S. -- where I was born and raised, before someone accuses me of being a leeching "furriner" -- I get very little back for my money. I sure get little from the local embassy, and virtually always pay through the nose for it when I do (passports, notarizations, etc.).

Yet I don't begrudge that expense, not in any fundamental, visceral sense. Sure, I'd like to see us get, say, a new presidential helicopter fleet for the touted -- what? -- $13 billion instead of double that. I'd like to see our Representatives and Senators barred by law from any pork barrel stuff; if they have a worthy idea, it can stand on its own. There are a thousand such things like those I'd like.

But as a citizen, I feel a responsibility to pull my share, based purely on my citizenship, not where I reside. And I will swallow hard then go along if my taxes need to go up -- within some bounds of reason -- for a clearly legitimate purpose. Go along, that is, so long as the folks knocking down 7- and 8-digit incomes see *their* taxes go up proportionally as well.

And while we're telling an impoverished parent that maybe his or her family can't get any insurance help because we can't afford it as a nation, let's also tell agribusiness we can't afford to pay them to leave thousands and thousands of acres fallow. Just for instance.

Posted by: MekhongKurt1 | August 8, 2009 4:49 PM

"Barack Obama in 2009 is promising to improve health care, have everyone covered with health care insurance and reduce long-term health care costs. Again tens of millions of people believe the nonsense, despite obvious conflicting promises. Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent "

Unlike Reaganomics, the Obama claims are not so contradictory as you might think. If all Americans had guaranteed health care, fees and charges in the system that now reflect the costs of treating indigent, ior insufficiently insured or insufficiently wealthy patients would be unnecessary. that bit of overhead would go away, while the funds that get absorbed in preparation for paying off bad debt would reappear in the care of insured persons who otherwise would have been the bad debt. T^he assumption that people who have health care will use it implies that, in using it when the first feel the need, those people will get treatment when it is cheap, instead of holding off till it is particularly expensive, and then, being unable to pay themselves, pushing the unpaid debt off on the insurance companies and healthcare facilities.

Universal health care is more efficient, and therefor less expensive that the mess we have now.

If some acturaial genius wants to go over typical bad debt calculations for a typical hospital, constructively disburse those costs over the population and using that model calculate the reduction in extra costs such a universal system might require, it would be a fine addition to the discussion.

Sadly, it wouldn't be worth the effort, because the people who would read the post and accept its conclusions have already reached those conclusions on their own. The loud and obnoxious townhallers, teabaggers, birthers, and other intransigent Republican obstructionists will reject its conclusions out of hand.

Posted by: ceflynline | August 8, 2009 4:47 PM

By the way, who would you rather trust with determining your health care: a private insurer that makes his profit by charging you more than he spends on you, and thus has a very strong profit motive to deny you the care you need - or - a "Buearocrat" that has no profit motive and most likely took the position because he or she is a complete nerd and has better understanding of public health systems than anyone else in the western hemisphere.

Call me socialist if you will, but your shouting tactics are simply uncivilized.

Posted by: Blurred | August 8, 2009 4:47 PM

The main notion that I get from reading these comments is utter confusion. Let me see if I understand...

Obama says that the reason we must have health care reform (oh excuse me, health insurance reform) is that U.S. health care costs too much.

Solution: Spend even more money.

Obama says that he does not want government to run private companies.

Solution: Expand government.

Obama says that private health insurance companies are incapable of running their businesses efficiently.

Solution: Create a government health insurance enterprise since government normally runs all of its enterprises so much more efficiently than private companies.

Posted by: steveagnew1 | August 8, 2009 4:47 PM

Countries with Universal Health Care:

Israel, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal,Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine and the United Kingdom, Japan, Brazil, Columbia, Argentina, South Korea.

So all these countries have "evil" Health Care system per Sarah Palin and the GOP?

Posted by: case3 | August 8, 2009 4:41 PM

I was so ready to post some smart alecky rmarks about socialist, elitist, chardonnay swilling surrender francophiles.

Then I read some of the kooks on here and realized I could never ever ever make up anything as silly and whacko and delusional as what some of these people are saying.

I mean seriously, I understand if you are philosophically and economically opposed to the healthcare bill, but be real.

read the bill yourself and know the truth. you may not like it, but you will know that it isn't evil. It doesn't advocate for euthanasia. It doesn't require a board of "Beaurocrats" to determine how much your life is worth. It doesn't require you to get on a waiting list for cancer treatments. It doesn't require you to get probed by aliens. It doesn't require you to say the Lord's prayer backwards.

Let's have an honest debate and see what we think about it then. the shouters are just trying to be bullies. Yawn. they are really just boors.

Posted by: Blurred | August 8, 2009 4:39 PM

THIS IS IT!

The healthcare reform bill released by the first two committees of the House Of Representatives are excellent bills as I understand them. They are bills with a strong, robust, government-run public option, and an intelligent, reasonable initial funding plan to cover almost all of the American people. They are carefully written, and thoughtfully constructed, informed, prudent and wise. These bills will save trillions of dollars, and millions of your lives. They are also now supported by the AMA.

These are the type of bills that all Americans can feel good about. And these are the type of bills that have the potential to dramatically improve the quality of healthcare for all Americans. Rich, middle class and poor a like. Democrats, Republicans, Independents, and all other party affiliations. These bills have the potential to dramatically improve the quality of life of every American.

The house healthcare bills released by the first two committees should be viewed as the minimum GOLD STANDARD by which all other proposed healthcare legislation should be judged. All supporters of true high quality healthcare reform should now place all your support behind these healthcare reform bills released by the first two committees of the United States House Of Representatives, as the minimum Gold standard for healthcare reform in America.

You should all now support the first two committees bills with all your might, and all of your unrelenting tenacity. These first two House committees healthcare bills are VERY, VERY GOOD! bills for all of the American people. Fight tooth, and nail for every bit of these bills if you have too. Be aggressive, creative, and relentless for these bills.

From this time forward, go BIGGER and DEEPER with the American people every day until passage of healthcare reform with a robust, government-run public option.

FIGHT!! like your life and the lives of your loved ones depends on it. BECAUSE IT DOES!

SPREAD THE WORD

Senator Bernie Sanders on healthcare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSM8t_cLZgk&feature=player_embedded)

God Bless You

Jack Smith — Working Class

Posted by: JackSmith1 | August 8, 2009 4:22 PM

Obama's real problem that is growing by leaps and bounds as each week passes is that no one can trust him to tell us the truth. It doesn't matter what he says because he can't be believed at face value. He has been lying nearly all his life and gotten away with it until the past few months. Now all that baggage is coming back to haunt him. As is his past socialist/Marxist comments. Karma sure is a b!tch!

He is also now tied to Reid and Pelosi which is like Superman being tied to kryptonite. The people will no longer trust his words without getting verification they are actually true. Once a person loses credibility with the public it is rare they ever get it back. It looks to be a very long 3.5 years for Obama to lay down in the bed of lies he has made for himself over the past several decades.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | August 8, 2009 4:19 PM

In 2003, under G.W. Bush, the federal Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality published a report recommending Advance Care Planning, with detailed guidelines for practitioners. Nobody called that euthanasia.

Advance Care Planning is legal in almost every state; the bill in question merely allows health care providers to be paid by Medicare for counseling patients on this matter, should the patient request this service - it would not be mandatory.

See:

http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/obama-wants-to-kill-your-grandma/

Posted by: MikeLicht | August 8, 2009 4:18 PM


"Idiots, all of them..."

Close, except for independents who want trustworthy people in government instead of irresponsible political hacks.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 4:10 PM


Hey DC Sage....
Did you inherit the name-calling trait, or work it out all on your own?

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 4:06 PM

The Republican party is not only shrinking, it's having a very public mental meltdown.


(R)-John Cornyn thinks fact checking is pretext for domestic espionage. Which he's suddenly against. (R)-Chuck Grassley uses Ted Kennedy's medical condition as propaganda for his own false and nonsensical claims about "socialized medicine" killing old people -- and this is who Max Baucus is "negotiating" with to bring us his version of health care?!?!.


Rush Limbaugh pretends, out loud, to think Obama is like Hitler. Glenn Beck muses about poisoning Nancy Pelosi.


The Wingnut birthers are going strong, and the Wingnut teabaggers are trying to shut down healthcare reform by making town halls on the subject impossible.


Dick Morris and John Bolton agree: we should have left those two journalists to rot in North Korea, because Clinton going there to secure their release made the U.S. look weak, and now other countries will steal our lunch money at recess. And Lou Dobbs never met a conspiracy theory he didn't like, as long as it was about brown or black people, but after people got angry that he peddled false nonsense he says he's now reflexively going to oppose Obama on everything.


It's all so disgusting and pathetic that you just have to laugh at it. Between Cornyn, Grassley, Limbaugh and Beck, between Dobbs and Morris and Bolton, between birthers and "socialized" medicine but keep-your-hands-off-my-Medicare, the Wingnut stupid is overwhelming. It's become a tidal wave of Wingnut stupid. It's a giant Noah's Ark of Wingnut stupid, in which two examples of every kind of dumbarsery known to man have been loaded up to be set adrift on a sea of their own drool. It's the "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire" gameshow of stupid -- loud, with big flashing lights, and on every damn day of the week.


It's the result of Wingnuts drinking conservative bong water and eating the paint chips flaking off Bill Buckley's lead-encrusted casket.


I'd be afraid for the future of our country, but I know that if these goon Teabagging Wingnuts ever actually armed themselves and tried to take over they'd all have accidentally shot themselves in the groin within the first ten minutes. Then they'd all limp to D.C. to hold a Big Healthcare Industry Sponsored Astroturf rally demanding free government healthcare for crotch-related injuries.


Idiots, all of them...


Posted by: DrainYou | August 8, 2009 4:00 PM

Ronald Reagan in 1980 promised to reduce taxes, balance the budget and increase military spending. Tens of millions of people believed such nonsense, despite the obvious conflicting promises. Barack Obama in 2009 is promising to improve health care, have everyone covered with health care insurance and reduce long-term health care costs. Again tens of millions of people believe the nonsense, despite obvious conflicting promises.

True health care reform should be based on universal health care coverage, no discrimination based on preexisting conditions, a public option, guarantees no individual, couple or family will pay more than 10% of their gross income on all health care expenses any year, inclusion of basic dental, vision care and no health care rationing that favors the rich over everyone else.

One of the most troubling aspects of the incomplete Obama/Democratic plan is they seek to authorize a panel of political appointees to decide which medical treatments are "best" for various illnesses and diseases. This is the height of hubris, as there is often widespread disagreement among doctors as to the best courses of treatment. Most people in this country would rather trust their doctor(s) to make these decisions than some political appointees, who probably will be intent upon reducing health care costs, thereby denying some medical treatments to some ordinary people.

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | August 8, 2009 4:00 PM

The republican threat to incite the racist mob is the threat of scoundrels who lost an election and can't accept it. Pitching to the ignorant, the stupid and the sons and daughters of the Klan, hatemongers like Glen Beck, the fat dope fiend Rush Limbaugh, the fat-headed bigot Lou Dobbs and the girly-men Newt Gingrich and Shemp Hannity seek to incite those too lazy to find out the details for themselves.

These hate-filled mobs should be crushed by law enforcement and not allowed to shut down the democratic process. If granny comes out to shout someone down and disrupt a town hall, granny should be taken to the woodshed like any other bully.

Treat these racist mobs the same way that demonstrators against the World Bank and International Monetary fund are treated. Crush these racist mobs and shut them down.

Posted by: DCSage | August 8, 2009 3:54 PM


DC Sage said:
"Republicans are appealing to the sons and daughters of the Ku Klux Klan to rule by the force of the racist mob."

You have a point about "mobs", but why play the race card?

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 3:51 PM

Republicans are appealing to the sons and daughters of the Ku Klux Klan to rule by the force of the racist mob. America's history is replete with racist southern mobs engaging in lynching and intimidation when they lose power through the ballot box.

These mobs don't vote, and believe they can take the nation backward through hate, bigotry, lies and mob rule.

These mobs need to be disrupted, crushed and broken.

Posted by: DCSage | August 8, 2009 3:43 PM


tinyjab40 said re "rowdy" behavior:
"It makes me wonder if these people have any ideas they can express quietly and rationally at all."

When voting or speaking 'quitely' doesn't help a situation, many resort to "rowdy" behavior. Just the nature of the beast, and not related specifically to any one group.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 3:32 PM

I think things are getting way out of hand. In the past few days I've read about death threats, fist fights with people arrested, Nazi swastikas, and lies like the Granny Killing lie. It makes me wonder if these people have any ideas they can express quietly and rationally at all.


Posted by: tinyjab40 | August 8, 2009 3:12 PM

Probably a more outlandish claim is that this will be budget neutral... this package is a glass house.. maybe time to stop hurling any rocks around.. any more rocks...

Posted by: newbeeboy | August 8, 2009 3:11 PM


Fate1 said:
"The hypocrisy is bold."

You get no argument from me on that. I've stated before that Bush was one of the worst 'things' to happen to the country. However, I have no love whatsoever for democrats either. So long as the focus is on partisan politics instead of trustworthy government officials, the political hacks will have a heyday with tax money, borrowed money, and printed money.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 3:10 PM

Are people going absolutely insane? The world will end if we provide health care to people? Obama is Satan? Death squads?? If you thought Bush Derangement Syndrome was bad, welcome to Obama Derangement Syndrome...

Posted by: schala1 | August 8, 2009 3:02 PM

Billw3 wrote: "Research shows borrowing from the S.S. funds started over 20 years ago. The problem is irresponsible politicians, in turn elected by irresponsible voters."

I agree, but it was not the democrats who put social security in this situation. They had a plan in 2000 and like today the GOP used FUD to make it sound like a conspiracy by greedy evil democrats as the GOP who were in control of Congress from 1994 to 2006 spent it all and then some. The hypocrisy is bold.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 3:00 PM


To iamweaver:
You say I miss the original posters point. So then, are you implying as the original poster suggested that I should return my S.S. check to the government?

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 2:58 PM


Fate1 said:
"I wonder how we went from the surplus to the need to borrow SS funds. Oh yea, Bush and the neocon spending spree."

Research shows borrowing from the S.S. funds started over 20 years ago. The problem is irresponsible politicians, in turn elected by irresponsible voters. I believe it was Jefferson who said that if everyone were allowed to vote, it would eventually bankrupt the government, and cause chaos. He was correct. Many are not qualified to vote, due to ignorance or irresponsibility or both.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 2:53 PM

The only brownshirts i see are on the right and they are digging the GOP's grave deeper and deeper.

Posted by: apstndp | August 8, 2009 2:48 PM

BillW writes:
"iamweaver said:
"This is especially evident when you reflect that you get out of it monies based on your highest 3 years of earnings, rather that what you added to the kitty."

So? What's the beef? The government calls the shots, no fault of the recipient. Again, the government is run mostly by selfish political hacks. "
--------------------------------------

I don't have a beef about that. The point of the original poster of that sentance was that SS is socialized income, not an investment. As a reminder,
================================
"...And no one is forcing you to use Medicare or Medicaid. And while you're at it please return any social security you may be getting just to make sure government is not helping in any way."
================================

Your reply to that was, "Social security is based on what the recipient paid into it cowboy. Wise up."

The fact that the Government loosely bases your socialized retirement on your past income in no way invalidated the original point.

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 2:45 PM

Wasn't it Gore in 2000 during the debates who said he would put social security trust funds into a "lock box" and republicans pounded him for that? Now we're told the government (e.g., Obama) is borrowing the funds. I wonder how we went from the surplus to the need to borrow SS funds. Oh yea, Bush and the neocon spending spree.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 2:44 PM


iamweaver said:
"This is especially evident when you reflect that you get out of it monies based on your highest 3 years of earnings, rather that what you added to the kitty."

So? What's the beef? The government calls the shots, no fault of the recipient. Again, the government is run mostly by selfish political hacks.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 2:39 PM

Billw writes:
""please return any social security you may be getting"

To clarify for you:
The government 'borrowed' the money in the social security kitty and spent it. What you pay now is to repay what the government blew, *not* a donation to the eldery."
---------------------------------------
So true :p. Yet another reason for citizens to keep well-informed about what their congress is doing.

Yet, even though the government decided to rob Peter to pay Paul (instead of admitting that it either needed to reduce spending or raise taxes) your money paid into SS isn't an investment. This is especially evident when you reflect that you get out of it monies based on your highest 3 years of earnings, rather that what you added to the kitty. As the original responder was trying to point out - because of SS and Medicare, over half of the money spent by the US government already *goes* to socialistic programs.

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 2:30 PM

I disagree, visionbrkr - but it's probably a point of semantics.

To me, a takeover would mean that the US Government competes in the market against private companies. That's not what is in the H.R. bill.

In the past, I would equate HR3200 with banking regulations - but, of course, We The People *have* taken over a few banks recently :). Thank goodness it's not a long-term deal - or, at least, I sincerely *hope* it isn't! Capitalism does a good job of... Well... Generating capital, as long as it's more unrealistic assumptions are supported by law.


I won't deny that I am not as concerned about the *spectre* of socialized medicine as many are, though - simply because things like social costs and general welfare aren't captured very well by the free market system. In general the insurance market preforms well - but health care has so many grey areas that it lends itself to practices that are good for business, but bad for the general welfare of its recipients.

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 2:20 PM


We have this dude called Obama
Who some have called Osama..
He took up for Gates
Who showed his 'nates'
By yelling at a cop 'yo mamma'.

RE the above, click here to see how Obama treats health issues:

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/07/31/a-picture-says-a-thousand-words.php

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 2:19 PM

There are certainly a lot of thick headed people out there when it comes to disseminating accurate information regarding the reforms that Congress has put forth. Whenever I challenge someone who opposes health care reform I do two things.

The first is I ask them to lay out their own specific plans so that I can understand how they would fix the current broken system. And second I ask them to give me the link to the exact Bill#, Title#, Subtitle (if applicable), Part#, and Section# that Congress has put forth that spells out exactly what they are so nightmarishly afraid of. And 99.9% of the time all they can do is spout out sayings like "Government takeover" and "Euthanasia for all". I've yet to find a person who opposes the current reforms be able to legitimately provide proof of their concerns or a plan of action regarding their own personal solutions to the mess we're in now.

But as an individual myself who has dedicated my life and career to the medical profession and my patients I've spent hours to learn about what we can do to successfully reform the mess we're in now. Here's the solutions that I would put in place - http://bit.ly/9QLV8

Posted by: rxvette | August 8, 2009 2:14 PM

I don't think we're ever going to get a real discussion over the president's health care reform agenda on the merits. Whether its god or bad, at least have a sober dialogue about a very serious issue.

Palin's "death panels" and the town hall mobs do nothing for this country.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Posted by: parkerfl1 | August 8, 2009 2:11 PM


"please return any social security you may be getting"

To clarify for you:
The government 'borrowed' the money in the social security kitty and spent it. What you pay now is to repay what the government blew, *not* a donation to the eldery.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 2:06 PM

i am weaver,


i'm sorry but it IS a grab for a takeover. just admit it.

that's like the postal service offering overnight services for $3 while FedEx or UPS could only do it for $12. With the government backing, government can't and won't fight fair.

I propose regulate insurers nationwide to an 85% medical loss ratio.

That will make sure profits aren't egrigious and will save all and not jeopardize our coverage in private plans.

Posted by: visionbrkr | August 8, 2009 2:05 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1152vOm0HY

Chris Matthews interviews Rep. Doggett - August 3, 2009 after town hall debacle

Part of transcript:

Chris Matthews: Well, let’s go through some of their attacks. One of them lately is this cultural front(?) where they are saying that the new reform bill, coming out of the energy and commerce in the House, will be a requirement that health practitioners come to older people and tell them, “ Well you better make plans now for living wills etc.. You’re gonna die someday and you’re gonna be in bad health so you better make some decisions now.” Is that the case? Is that in the bill?

Rep. Doggett: That was one of the cries of this Republican mob Saturday that was also nice enough to have a beautiful marble picture, a beautiful picture of a marble tombstone with my name on it. But they did express this concern about euthanasia. That’s a real slur about this bill. I worked with my colleagues on that section of the bill. All that it does is to provide that a physician, under Medicare, can be paid for talking with a senior who wants to talk with a physician.
If they want to express the desire to be tied to a machine indefinitely or as in my case, they want to sign a living will to provide some instruction instead of letting someone else decide for them. They have that right.

Chris Matthews: Well, Mr. Doggett, as one of the people writing the bill, just to clear it up as you just did, make it clear – no one will be approached to have to make end of life decisions? That would be entirely up to the patient; the citizen to bring up the topic? Right?

Rep. Doggett: It is up to the patient to take it up with their doctor if they so choose to and euthanasia is not one of the options.

Chris Matthews: Ok, let me ask you about your state; you also have a governor that was talking up succession lately? What’s that about? I thought you guys joined the Union back in the 19th century and you were quite happy here?

Rep. Doggett: Yeah Chris, that’s like this crowd on Saturday to. Holding up the 10th Amendment and saying that the 10th Amendment prevents our getting the healthcare bill through and when I asked them about that, because all your video shows is the end of the meeting not the hour that I spent with them responding to their taunts and questions, they admitted they’re not only against healthcare reform but they’d like to see the repeal of Medicare and Social Security. This is about whether our country goes backwards or provides the coverage people so much want.

Posted by: lasker1895 | August 8, 2009 2:04 PM


Quoth the Expected One:
"I will never forget watching my own mother, as she fought cancer in her final days, worrying about whether her insurer would claim her illness was a preexisting condition. I have met so many Americans who worry about the same thing," he said.

How convenient! Although impossible to prove or disprove, I will bet whatever remains of the value of my WaMu bonds (after looting by the FDIC) that this touching exchange never occurred. How likely is it that a woman in her "final days", that is to say, after all medical procedures have been exhausted, would be so concerned about the fine print in her medical insurance? This is very reminiscent of John Kerry's indelible memory of his Cambodian expedition in Christmas of 1968, while Nixon [Sic} was President.

Posted by: JamesCurrin | August 8, 2009 2:04 PM


iamweaver said:
"Social security is paid to the recipient by CURRENT wage earners, at a rate determined by the govt."

Right, but that rate is set on what the recipient paid in, and it's not the recipients fault the government spent the money in the kitty for other than social security. The government has been out of hand for a long time now. It's run mostly by a bunch of unethical political hacks.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 1:56 PM

visionbr writes:
"and when its bankrupt by the time i'm ready to take money out of it (I'm 38 and i've put 16+ years into it) I'll be the one losing out so i don't want a government run healthcare system that I'll pay taxes to sustain and again get nothing out of it when its bankrupted like Medicare will be in 10 years or less.

Trusting the government is like watching your truck speeding towards a cliff and throwing your wife and kids into it and slamming on the gas.

Why would you do that???

Why not just reform insurers???"
------------------------------------------
You can do that, too! Just as long as posters stop pretending that the problem doesn't exist. Did you get a chance to read that report put out by the folks at U. Maine? I haven't found any reputable academic report that refutes it - if I do, I might change my tune, but it's literary references seem pretty good.

By the way - read the H.R. bill. Its publicly available, and shouldn't take a fast reader more than about 2 hours.

You might be surprised about how little "socialization" is in it.

Now, I haven't read the Senate bill yet, and I know it's different, but it's best to start with H.R.3200.

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 1:56 PM

"You say that doctors will talk to elderly people. How do you know it will be doctors and not someone hired by the government? The plan says that people will do this starting at age 65 and every five years after that. Just think about it."
------------------------

Oh, please. Read the bill. It says:

==========================================
"‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
21 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
22 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
23 sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
24 scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
25 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
1 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years."
==========================================
Guess what the definition of a "practitioner" is? ANd theres NOTHING in there about HAVING to see such a practitioner - the bill merely stipulates that the insurance must COVER such a visit, SHOULD you wish to go.

The AMA lobbied to have this put INTO the bill. That's right. *Doctors* want to make sure that the elderly understand what they can and cannot do.

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 1:48 PM

"please return any social security you may be getting"

Social security is based on what the recipient paid into it cowboy. Wise up.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 1:22 PM

--------------------------------------

Social security is paid to the recipient by CURRENT wage earners, at a rate determined by the govt. Its socialized income. It's not even based on what you put into the system! It's based on the most that you paid others for 3 years.

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 1:37 PM

and when its bankrupt by the time i'm ready to take money out of it (I'm 38 and i've put 16+ years into it) I'll be the one losing out so i don't want a government run healthcare system that I'll pay taxes to sustain and again get nothing out of it when its bankrupted like Medicare will be in 10 years or less.

Trusting the government is like watching your truck speeding towards a cliff and throwing your wife and kids into it and slamming on the gas.

Why would you do that???

Why not just reform insurers???

Posted by: visionbrkr | August 8, 2009 1:47 PM

"please return any social security you may be getting"

Social security is based on what the recipient paid into it cowboy. Wise up.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 1:22 PM

--------------------------------------

Social security is paid to the recipient by CURRENT wage earners, at a rate determined by the govt. Its socialized income. It's not even based on what you put into the system! It's based on the most that you paid others for 3 years.

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 1:37 PM

So it's okay for health insurance companies to deny care for financial reasons to needy people, but it's NOT ok for doctors to talk to elderly people about DNR's because they might be confused?
--------------------------------
You say that doctors will talk to elderly people. How do you know it will be doctors and not someone hired by the government? The plan says that people will do this starting at age 65 and every five years after that. Just think about it. People will turn 65 today, tomorrow or any day in the future. The same goes for when people turn 70, 75, 80 etc. I would like to see actuaries give a report on how many people will turn those ages each day for the next several years. That will tell us how many doctors will be needed for the DNR "discussion". Without the reports, I can say there can't possibly be enough. Their waiting rooms will be filled with people waiting for their DNRs. Someone just isn't thinking -- and it's not me! But, in case this debacle gets through, it should not get through without including Obama, congress and all federal and state employees.

Posted by: mafox1 | August 8, 2009 1:31 PM


"please return any social security you may be getting"

Social security is based on what the recipient paid into it cowboy. Wise up.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 1:22 PM


HEY!!! Obama he done promise me free health care. Whea mah free health care be?

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 1:18 PM

There are already "life and death" decisions being made by the insurance industry when they determine who shall or shall not be covered by their insurance.

When rejections for a pre-existing condition are used as a profit incentive for companies, they are risking lives.

For example, unless a person has employer health care coverage, anyone who is diagnosed with depression is rejected. Therefore the insurance companies are endangering a normal life for that person in order to see profits increase. For most Americans suffering from depression, an occassional visit to a therapist and monthly prescriptions of an anti-depressant is all that is necessary. The alternative is an unproductive life of misery or worse.

Or... some plans do not cover college age children who go out of the area or state to school. The parent must purchase a ryder to the policy.

The opposition is so very narrowly focused. Obama and the Democrats need to use specific cases in order to help sell their plan. I didn't know until I went part time that my school division would not cover me at the same rate as I was covered as a full-time teacher. I went from paying $10.00 a month to paying $300 a month (single subscriber).

Frankly, as an American, I'm embarrassed by the lack of understanding and compassion by those on the right and have heard enough.

Posted by: ilcn | August 8, 2009 1:18 PM


HEY!!! Obama he done promise me free health care. Whea man free health care be?

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 1:17 PM

akeegan2 spouted: "Mr Obama am a 75 year old lady And I do not want Goverment Health Insurance.

Ok, then please do not use Medicare or Medicaid.

akeegan2 spouted: "Find a way to Control cost of medications and Cost of Private Insurance. That all it takes."

So simple? Why not ask your insurance company to increase its coverage? That would be simple. I hear they are nice people who only care about you and not their profits even though their CEOs make hundreds of millions.

akeegan2 spouted: "Oh! By the way MR Obama no one forced me to oppose Gov. Health Ins. We are sincere Hard working Taxpayers American citizens."

And no one is forcing you to use Medicare or Medicaid. And while you're at it please return any social security you may be getting just to make sure government is not helping in any way.

akeegan2 spouted: "That put You in office, remember did you forget?"

What put him in office was a promise to overhaul health care so that everyone is covered and costs are lower. This is what the teabaggers and thugs are fighting to prevent so your health insurance costs continue to rise as fast as health insurance CEO pay does. Funny how in these times of layoffs and companies pulling back that health insurance companies are laying off no one and none are closing their doors. Why is that?

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 1:14 PM

Alaskans want this Health Insurance Reform because we ALL need it!
It is time that we have reasonableness in our Health Care. Who wants to keep paying more for health insurance, I don't.

Regarding Sarah Palin, you all must know Alaska is a Republican State
but we got rid of Sarah Palin folks because she is an absolute low life of a scammer, interested in only making a profit on other people’s backs.
She tried every trick in the book in our state and we booted her out!

It is only the insurance companies, the GOP and others who profit by keep things status quo, that don’t want Health Insurance Reform because they are all getting fat and happy on all of our hard working backs.

I am an Independent and a small business owner who wants Health Insurance Reform in Alaska.

Posted by: frmJuneauAlaska | August 8, 2009 1:10 PM

visionbrkr writes:

"i love how people believe the rhetoric of the left. have you seen PROOF that its the case? how many employees does your company have?
...
Also medicare is not 4%. that's liberal drivel. they don't factor in fraud, overhead expense like salaries, buildings etc. Try 20-30%.

in fact in 2008 insurers profits nationwide are 2%."
--------------------------------------
I never said that Insurance companies were reaping 30% PROFIT. I said that Insurance companies spend 30% in OVERHEAD. There are a large number of reasons for this, no doubt - and in my mind the current bill ignores tort reform, which I do not understand at all. To see some of the numbers, feel free to read the paper at U Maine, http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S.%20HCweb.pdf.

The Medicare overhead is the number reported by HCFA. It does include salaries, physical equipment (read: buildings and infrastructure). After that, the money moves to the state intermediary - and that privatized intermediary spends the same amount on overhead as it does for private insurance. This number does NOT include fraud,waste and abuse.

The average American spends double what the average person spends in other "first world" countries - in fact, almost double the 2nd-most expensive system. I see absolutely no evidence that I receive 2x the benefit from the money I pour into the industries' hands - in fact, the WHO ranks US healthcare 37th in the world.

Why anyone would want to let things continue as they are completely stumps me. Not only is a noticeable percentage of our citizens simply unable to afford any health care at all, but those of us who do spent way more than we should. What's more, it's tied into our current employer, our "pre-existing conditions", etc.

The current system is terribly broken. What does being a "liberal" or "conservative" have to do with admitting the system doesn't work?

Folks complaining about the liberal solution, I can understand. Folks with their heads in the sand about the pitiful state of US health care are the ones I worry about.

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 1:08 PM

If this Healthcare plan is so good for me and all Americans then why can't our Senators,Congressman and Congresswomen take out the same health care policy being force down out throat.
Instead of doing so much change why don't we just investgate the fraud in medcare and in our government officials and apply that savings.

Posted by: James70 | August 8, 2009 1:07 PM

"DaMan2 wrote: "You are a little bit naive. When you incentivize doctors monetarily, in a hospital or doctors office setting, to begin discussing end of life directives with frail and confused elderly patients, you are stacking the deck against them and the result will be quicker and more "Do Not Resuccitate" actions which are designed to maximize government savings for health care for the elderly. Obama knows this, and, fortunately, so do the American people."

The incentive is to resuccitate since doctors make little money letting their patients die. What drivel.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 1:07 PM

I really laugh about the left. They use astroturf paid people to show up at townhalls. They then claim the right does the same thing. I thought Obama was a community organizer, but he gets upset when the right organizes. You cannot have it both ways.
The cost of private insurance increases. That is not a lie, but the truth. What are some of the reasons? Medicare, and Medicaid are in deep financial trouble. More than $34 trillion in unfunded liablity. Our seniors who have paid into this system need care. Our government response is to decrease payments to hopsitals, and Dr.'s. Well that money has to be paid somehow. It results in higher premiums for the privately insured.
Our government has never run any program effectively. It cannot even balance a budget. We have deficts for as far as the eye can see. Do you think they can do they job with something as precious as your life? I do not because everything in Washington is political. How long before those decisons on care are political? Not very!! Example GM Plant closings and dealerships, having political debate over a business problem.
To solve a problem you must first identify that problem. The problem with rising insurance cost is a direct result of the GOV's own program.

Posted by: wbones8765 | August 8, 2009 1:03 PM


Click on this link. It proves who cares about health problems.

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/07/31/a-picture-says-a-thousand-words.php

.

Posted by: Billw3 | August 8, 2009 1:02 PM

"Obama lied and people died. Posted by: get_it_right"

Name one.

The Brown Shirts are out in force, mad as hell because their guys aren't running the country into the ground and hell bent on reversing that situation. The truth is being formally banished by the Republican Party in favor of every lie and distortion they feel safe in making.

Pay attention, independents and disaffecteds, because those same brown shirts want your vote in the next couple of years to make sure that America doesn't actually go to work for the center, the middle class, and the ordinary worker.

They disrupt attempts by Congressmen to listen to their constituents because they know that those constituents want health care reform by significant pluralities. They don't want discussion, they want their word to be law and gospel.

And their leaders laugh and calculate the political disruption they get, hoping it will return them to power.

There remains one question to be answered, "Will ordinary rank and file Republicans continue to allow their leaders to support these Brown Shirts?"

Only you Republicans can answer that question.

Posted by: ceflynline | August 8, 2009 1:01 PM

Except for the truly rich and Government employees, everyone is for health care reform. The argument that “I don’t want government interference in choosing my doctor” is absurd………Hasn’t any body ever read the pamphlet that comes with your employer paid health insurance policy that specifically lists the primary care physicians you may see without “out of network charges”. Does anyone in an HMO or PPO think they can see any doctor they choose? And then people complain that they don’t want government involved in their Medicare or Medicaid coverage! It really appears we have a nation of morons when it comes to understanding health care limitations and it’s funding.

Posted by: tonyholst | August 8, 2009 12:54 PM

I used to work for the health insurance industry, and there, the battle is between their profits and your health. Guess which one wins?

Their profits.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

Posted by: GeorgHerbet | August 8, 2009 12:45 PM

We need insurance REFORM, not insurance takeover.

Posted by: visionbrkr | August 8, 2009 12:18 PM

===

This may be, but you left out a key comment in the original poster's post:

"And wouldn't it be nice if that someone didn't find it in their best interest to deny me care? "

===

Isn't this the problem? Health insurance companies only want to cover healthy people. I don't blame them for that, it is business - but that's why government is needed where private enterprise can't or won't do the job.

Posted by: mikem1 | August 8, 2009 12:38 PM

This is very scary. It can only be willful ignorance that allows people to keep repeating the same outrageous lies about the pending health insurance reform legislation. There are never any references to the actual wording in the bills. There is never any acknowledgment when those lies are disproved by reference to the actual wording. At best, we get tortured, out-of-context, worst-case interpretations of phrases cherry-picked for maximum shock value.

If the right really wants to debate the health care issue, they need to start acting more like rational human beings and less like Pavlov's dogs.

Posted by: st50taw | August 8, 2009 12:29 PM

Talk show hosts inciting the not so smart people to interrupt townhall meetings may, sooner or later lead to violence against our congressmen and our congresswomen. These meeting places do not have metal detectors. Also, its not like Capitol Hill is not under enough duress now from the threats of violence against our leaders whether you like them or not. The Capitol Hill Police do a wonderful job but these people that are inciting the nuts may make their job more difficult. There are many groups trying to create chaos and riots. Palin talking about "death panels"and stirring up fear amongst the elderly and others may lead to violence sooner or later. Glen Beck calling the President racist and saying that he hates white people may sooner or later lead to violence and more threats against our President. Comparing the President to Hitler as Rush Limbaugh and others are doing may provoke more threats and attempts against our President. Fox News a network that is own by someone not born in the USA is broadcasting negative news 24/7, giving comfort to the enemies of the President may lead to violence sooner or later. So take a good look at those who are inciting riotous behavior and you're know where to place the blame.

Posted by: MILLER123 | August 8, 2009 12:28 PM

What do you call the insurance adjusters who reject people based on "pre-existing" conditions? You got a cute catch phrase for that too?

Uh, they call their bosses "frequent White House visitors and staffers."

Obama Et Al is eaten up with lobbyists and wealthy donors.

What do you call a Microsoft Lobbyist?

The new US Attorney in Alexandria.

Posted by: mmmmm999999m34e56ee91099 | August 8, 2009 12:07 PM
=======

Are you suggesting that health reform is possible by ignoring the health insurance companies?

Of course you didn't address my real point - that it's okay to become a bleeding heart liberal when we fear government sponsored "death panels" taking advantage of Gramma, BUT it's not okay when the insurance companies deny coverage today.

Posted by: mikem1 | August 8, 2009 12:23 PM

DaMan2 wrote:

"When you incentivize doctors monetarily, in a hospital or doctors office setting, to begin discussing end of life directives with frail and confused elderly patients, you are stacking the deck against them and the result will be quicker and more "Do Not Resuccitate" (sic) actions which are designed to maximize government savings for health care for the elderly."

Your fears are baseless DaMan 2. Doctors have 0 incentive to guard the government coffers. And if there is a financial incentive for doctors on this question, it would be to resuscitate as often as possible, not less. But doctors don't care about that - their central interest (and their oath) is to help their patients, not to hurt them.

Posted by: jcf872 | August 8, 2009 12:20 PM

Thanks for the ingenuous statment.

I currently pay 500/month - as a single man - on insurance (note here, that "I" is actually, "I and the company I work for" - so ultimately, it's "I" since my salary takes into account corporate insurance coverage).

This is twice what I would pay if I were Canadian, or British, or German, or French, or... well, anything but American.

30%+ of this goes for OVERHEAD. Now, *that's* "obscene" and "evil". That's almost twice what these other socialistic coverages pay (Medicare has about 4% admin overhead).

Ultimately, I will pay *someone* for my health coverage. And wouldn't it be nice if that someone didn't find it in their best interest to deny me care? Somehow?

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 11:49 AM


-------------------------------------------

i love how people believe the rhetoric of the left. have you seen PROOF that its the case? how many employees does your company have? if its over 50 like many then that's absolutely not the case. if its even larger then your claims experience of your employer is your own. I know most don't understand this but many states have medical loss ratios of 80% or more that mean that insurers profits are limited.

Also medicare is not 4%. that's liberal drivel. they don't factor in fraud, overhead expense like salaries, buildings etc. Try 20-30%.

in fact in 2008 insurers profits nationwide are 2%.

but hey why not continue the lie the obama administration is saying.


maybe obama should target his buddies in the pharmecutical industry whose profits are 20% even in this economy???


We need insurance REFORM, not insurance takeover.

Posted by: visionbrkr | August 8, 2009 12:18 PM

Obama lied and people died.

Worst. President. Ever

Dissent is patriotic.


Posted by: get_it_right | August 8, 2009 12:17 PM

Obama lied and people died.

Worst.President.Ever

Dissent is patriotic.

Posted by: get_it_right | August 8, 2009 12:15 PM

Rahm Emanuel's "Let no crisis go to waste" motto has backfired. Obama looks like Wile E. Coyote after one of his contraptions from Acme Inc. has serendipitously malfunctioned. The "We Must Pass This Now" credo on health care has eroded the trust between government and the people. This isn't 9/11. We've had health care issues for decades. The rush to passage appears to be an effort to hide the details from the public before they fully understand the consequences. Additionally despite their claims to the contrary, Democrats see the the government option as the "Trojan Horse" they need for single payer. They've been caught on video and it's all over the internet. Democrats have tried to use the current angst over the economy as the excuse they've needed to socialize healthcare.

Americans want an improved system but they don't want government controlling health care. Government has done a lousy job at running the current set of entitlements. Government healthcare would be a total disaster for the middle class. Democrats will be out of power by 2012 if they don't figure this out.

Posted by: maxtel1910 | August 8, 2009 12:15 PM

Tragically, Barack Obama has become the nation's pre-existing condition. Prognosis not good.

Posted by: Tupac_Goldstein | August 8, 2009 12:12 PM

Obama is yet another power hungry control freak, in the tradition of his power hungry control freak predecessors such as LBJ, Nixon, and Dubya (yeah, I'm a non-Bush Republican). Obama seeks and these three sought their agendas aggressively and without regard for our input and they inspire tumult and anger between their hard core supporters and opponents. We need calm and civility in this country, but Mr. Obama is not doing a good job of fostering it.

This country and its people cannot afford, either monetarily or constitutionally, to have excessive, aggressive, and costly domestic and foreign policy agendas slammed through Congress by power hungry and secretive Presidents without much of our input. Why did they try to pass this thing before the recess? Was it just to avoid us from discussing it??

It is not that I am opposed to healthcare reform per se, it is just that we cannot afford the cost of the House bill from the Energy & Commerce committee, given the fact that already existing federal programs are nearing insolvency. I would be much more comfortable if we would tackle the recession and update the financial regulations to further prevent abuse in the financial markets. Personally, I think we should make the insurance industry a more competitive national market by lowering the barriers to entry and cutting down exclusive contracts and practices. I also am a big fan of empowering health cooperatives as a non-profit option. I am adamantly against the so-called "public "option"".

Then we have two wars that I question the President's commitment to. I think Iraq is ending up OK, though we will need to give some limited support for a while. I see that we are attempting a surge in Afghanistan, but our policy and strategy seems unclear and it has not been explained in an honest way. If he isn't committed, we don't need limited wars without a plan.

I just want the President and his political allies to stop trying to liken all who oppose his policies to some sort of fascist nuts. Most of us, including most of those at the town meetings, have legitimate concerns about the specifics of the President's plans and his aggressive strategy. He needs to slow down the agenda and speak to us about being civil.

Posted by: chrojo01 | August 8, 2009 12:10 PM

What do you call the insurance adjusters who reject people based on "pre-existing" conditions? You got a cute catch phrase for that too?

Uh, they call their bosses "frequent White House visitors and staffers."

Obama Et Al is eaten up with lobbyists and wealthy donors.

What do you call a Microsoft Lobbyist?

The new US Attorney in Alexandria.

Posted by: mmmmm999999m34e56ee91099 | August 8, 2009 12:07 PM

There's a lot more to discussing the euthanasia and care rationing aspects of this debate than saying "death panel" or "liers, birthers, deathpanelers."

There are discussions of this flawed bill. There are huge differences and fear, and Obama dismissing critics and Democratic loyalists dismissing critics as "liars" and "extremists" inflames the dissent.

That "Dr. Emanuel" called for a "PUBLIC DELIBERATIVE PROCESS" for his "complete life systems" plans seems to have been lost.

There is nothing public about secret White House meetings with wealthy health care executives who donate heavily to Obama.

There is nothing deliberative about rushing a 1,200 page bill thru without reading it, much less suppressing dissent and First Amendment rights.

People are concerned about rationing, taxes, goverment mandates, and equit. They always have been.

It's unAmerican to push secret legislation thru which affects life and death.

And that is exactly what Obama, Axelrod, and the Emanuel Bros. have attempted to do.

And there is blowback. That's American.

Obama's healthcare and Goldman Sachs/finance ties were not carefully examined during the election.

They will be now. It's "ownership" as the GOP used to say.

With 60 Senate votes and the WH, it's their problem.

But there are real, real problems with ObamaCare.

Posted by: mmmmm999999m34e56ee91099 | August 8, 2009 12:04 PM

So it's okay for health insurance companies to deny care for financial reasons to needy people, but it's NOT ok for doctors to talk to elderly people about DNR's because they might be confused?
"Death Panels"? What do you call the insurance adjusters who reject people based on "pre-existing" conditions? You got a cute catch phrase for that too?

Posted by: mikem1 | August 8, 2009 11:52 AM

---------------------------

That's it, kick'em where it hurts. He deserves it.

Posted by: HemiHead66 | August 8, 2009 12:01 PM

Yes, iamweaver, there is no overhead, waste, or inefficiency in federal government operations. All this will go away when Dear Leader Obama takes over the health care system and provides for us. Ignorance is strength.

Posted by: get_it_right | August 8, 2009 11:58 AM

You are a little bit naive. When you incentivize doctors monetarily, in a hospital or doctors office setting, to begin discussing end of life directives with frail and confused elderly patients, you are stacking the deck against them and the result will be quicker and more "Do Not Resuccitate" actions which are designed to maximize government savings for health care for the elderly. Obama knows this, and, fortunately, so do the American people.


Posted by: DaMan2 | August 8, 2009 11:38 AM

====
So it's okay for health insurance companies to deny care for financial reasons to needy people, but it's NOT ok for doctors to talk to elderly people about DNR's because they might be confused?

"Death Panels"? What do you call the insurance adjusters who reject people based on "pre-existing" conditions? You got a cute catch phrase for that too?

Posted by: mikem1 | August 8, 2009 11:52 AM

Why isn't anybody saying? Let's figure out how to control costs first. Start with tort reform. So doctors don't have to, order unnessacary tests, that drive up costs. And maybe then they can lower premiums, for malpractice insurance. Wich the consumer ultimately pays for. Then allow people to, have an HSA to cover routine care. Then buy a policy on the open market. That suits their needs for coverage, of major medical expensess.With HSA's and health insurance, fully deductible from your income taxes. The government doesn't provide our car or homeowners insurance. Why should they, provide our health insurance.

Posted by: gkmccollum | August 8, 2009 11:50 AM

"No matter which side that anyone comes down on is the argument over health care or anything else before our government, there is no money to pay for it; furthermore, there is no economic base for our citizens to create the wealth to pay for anything now."
-------------------------------------------

Thanks for the ingenuous statment.

I currently pay 500/month - as a single man - on insurance (note here, that "I" is actually, "I and the company I work for" - so ultimately, it's "I" since my salary takes into account corporate insurance coverage).

This is twice what I would pay if I were Canadian, or British, or German, or French, or... well, anything but American.

30%+ of this goes for OVERHEAD. Now, *that's* "obscene" and "evil". That's almost twice what these other socialistic coverages pay (Medicare has about 4% admin overhead).

Ultimately, I will pay *someone* for my health coverage. And wouldn't it be nice if that someone didn't find it in their best interest to deny me care? Somehow?

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 11:49 AM

The Big Insurance companies and the Big Drug companies are playing a game of 'Good Cop, Bad Cop' with the American public. Back in the 90's it was Big Drug companies lobbyists who were the reason the Clinton health care bill was rejected and, this time it is Big Insurance company lobbyists who are in the forefront. Make no mistake about the game, if Big Insurance ever got the bill written in a way that they liked, then, Big Drug Companies would continue the fight. They both admit that the current system is broken, but they would rather kick the problem down the road for our children to deal with, because they are just making so much money on this gravy train that they never want it to slow down.
Why do Big drug Companies and Big Insurance Companies hate Americans?

Posted by: rkerg | August 8, 2009 11:46 AM

Take down the Tea-Baggers names and let them have their Wall Street Healthcare for the rest of their lives. They're paying to support the Healthcare industry's stock price and million dollar bonuses every year and they don't even know it. Keep listening to that neo-con propaganda. After watching this country go down hill for the last 27 years I'm surprised you haven't figured it out yet.

Posted by: HemiHead66 | August 8, 2009 11:45 AM

HERE'S SOME FISHY SPEECH FOR YA....
"And Barak Omama will REQUIRE you to work! He's going to DEMAND that you shed your cynicism. That you put down YOUR devision...that you come out of YOUR isolation...that you move out of YOUR comfort zones...That you push YOURSELVES to be betterand that YOU ENGAGE. BARAK WILL NEVER ALLOW YOU to go back to your lives as usual , uninvolved and uninformed. "
~Michelle Obama
☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟☟
(((NEWS FLASH )))
It is your CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to be left alone and not to be HELL HACKED by possessed DEMONCRAPS.!

Posted by: noHUCKABEEnoVOTE | August 8, 2009 11:43 AM

Mr Obama am a 75 year old lady And I do not want Goverment Health Insurance
Find a way to Control cost of medications and Cost of Private Insurance. That all it takes
Oh!
By the way MR Obama no one forced me to
oppose Gov. Health Ins. We are sincere Hard working Taxpayers American citizens.
That put You in office, remember did you forget?

Posted by: akeegan2 | August 8, 2009 11:43 AM

The only thing I've learned from most of these posts is just how uninformed some people are. They will believe anything they are told without verification. Their outrage should be directed at the people scarring them into believing this stuff. If they actually "read the bill" like they chant, they would find their accusations and fears are unfounded. Actually, they would have to read 3 bills, as there isn't one Obama-penned bill. Obama has taken a hands-off approach (much to the dismay of his supporters), instead letting the bills be written by Congress after getting input and compromise agreements with every facet of the health industry. That included doctors, insurance companies, nurses, and regular people. The reform is designed to keep people from being denied treatments, not keep the status quo of denials for profit. The "euthanasia" clause was added because it's a smart thing to do ("living will"). The irony is it was actually a Republican policy - added to Medicare rules under Bush, stemming from the Teri Shavio case. It was adopted in the new health reform legislation after lobbying by two Republicans on the committee.

Bottom line - if you don't want insurance thru the government, don't get it. This is only being created as an option for the millions of people who don't already have insurance. (So you don't have to complain about your premiums increasing due to emergency room care for people without insurance.) And if you really don't want the government involved in health care, be sure to not go on Medicare when you are older. And don't join the military, since VA hospitals are government run also.

Posted by: wysguymd1 | August 8, 2009 11:43 AM

Obama threw his own grandmother under the bus and called her a racist during the campaign. Now he is using his mother for political purposes. The dude is shameless!

Posted by: DaMan2 | August 8, 2009 11:43 AM

ObamaCare is one size fits all government controlled health care that explodes our already exploding deficit and completely eliminates private insurance. It will fail and Obama will continue to plunge in the polls as the public realizes what a socialist he is.

Posted by: djo4 | August 8, 2009 11:41 AM

"Take a look at the photo below and see how considerate Obama was for one of his friends. Then consider how he feels toward the rest of us. Also note how the "stupidly acting" policeman is taking care to help Obama's buddy.
What an embarrassing phony the incompetent Obama is."
-----------------------------------------
Yes - look closely at that photo.

Look at how the president isn't hogging the limelight, or turning it into a moment where he shouts in self-absorbed egotism, "World! Look at me!"

Instead he steps aside (actually, in front), and shows how two people who feel differently about issues *have* commonalities.

What did you expect the President to do, after a meeting SPECIFICALLY aimed at bringing these two together, do?

Here's a better spin for you:

"Look at this terrible picture. It's clearly propaganda, touting Obama's political acumen. What a shameless pose!"

Or, perhaps you shouldn't post that, since this shot wasn't posed and planned.

Posted by: iamweaver | August 8, 2009 11:40 AM

Health care and anything else government provides has to be paid for from the taxes collected from citizens and businesses that create products that have market value. Our Republic's economy has been deliberatly off-shored, looted and scammed by Wall Street interests with the help of their cadre of career politcians, both political parties. No matter which side that anyone comes down on is the argument over health care or anything else before our government, there is no money to pay for it; furthermore, there is no economic base for our citizens to create the wealth to pay for anything now.

Posted by: 123Njord | August 8, 2009 11:40 AM

The president will gain much more support for health care once he declares that abortion will not be covered under government-mandated health-benefit plans, nor will federal funds be used either directly or indirectly for abortion (consistent with nearly three decades of public policy). He may not win if he does this, but he cannot win if he does not.

Posted by: mayoungkin | August 8, 2009 11:39 AM

DaMan2 wrote: "See Section 1233 of the House Bill as well as the WaPO article today...

Thanks for the citation. please explain how it is euthanasia. All it does is allow seniors, if they choose, to have an advanced care consultation with their doctor be paid for by Medicare once every five years, or more frequently if the patient has a life threatening disease. Its purely voluntary but requires Medicare to pay for it if chosen. How is that euthanasia. Do you even understand what euthanasia is?

And, by the way, that provision was a BIPARTISAN provision but I'm sure you'll ignore that fact as well. Facts, so much bother when fantasy and hate are so much more satisfying.
-----------------------------------------
You are a little bit naive. When you incentivize doctors monetarily, in a hospital or doctors office setting, to begin discussing end of life directives with frail and confused elderly patients, you are stacking the deck against them and the result will be quicker and more "Do Not Resuccitate" actions which are designed to maximize government savings for health care for the elderly. Obama knows this, and, fortunately, so do the American people.


Posted by: DaMan2 | August 8, 2009 11:38 AM

The more lies I see by the birthers, "death panel" liars, teabaggers and town hall rioters just tells me Obama must be doing something right. America overcame these people when they segregated schools, denied voting rights and kept women out of the workplace. American will overcome these people too because lies and thuggery never win in the long run.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 11:38 AM

"In his weekly Internet and radio address, the president pushed back against claims "that reform will promote euthanasia, cut Medicaid, or bring about a government takeover of health care. That's simply not true."....................
What about his recorded comments from the past where he states he believes in a single payer system?
(like the joke goes, how do you know when he's lying...his lips are moving)

Posted by: whitehousewatcher | August 8, 2009 11:37 AM

Obama wants "no cost-sharing for preventive care?" Well, what a radical idea it is to expect people to pay money out of their own pocket to keep themselves healthy. That's obviously a federal government responsibility. I look forward to the warm embrace of federal government bureaucrats will will take care of me for life. Further, "the rich" or at least "the taxpayers" are morally obligated to pay 100% for my preventive care. I deserve it and I am entitled to it. Obama said so.

Posted by: get_it_right | August 8, 2009 11:35 AM

All the poor love Uncle Sam. He never forgets to provide for them. But the rich are jealous and they also want some of the freebies. He will now give everybody free health care. The whole nation will now love him equally and not call him uncle, but Big Daddy.

Posted by: melvin_polatnick | August 8, 2009 11:33 AM

The Organizer-n-Chief is so desperate to silence any and all debate on his plan to nationalize 1/7th of the US economy by confiscating control of the US health and insurance industry, that he has established a stool pigeon hot line on the White House web site, calling for his rat fink minions to narc out their neighbors if they dare to speak out against ObamaCare.

Hitler and Goebbels would be proud of Obama’s flag@whitehouse.gov effort to track and silence his political opponents… But American citizens are just plain pissed off about it!

In response to public outcries against Obama’s rush into unbridled Marxism, the breaking point of which appears to be his plan to capture federal control of the entire health and health insurance industries, Obama is ordering his “civilian troops” to confront dissenting voices, currently turning town hall propaganda meetings into TEA Party revolts across the country.

When Obama grabbed federal control of the banking and auto industries, the people were shocked to learn what kinds of “change” Obama had in mind for their once-free republic. But as he moves on an industry that not only represents 1/7th of the US economy, but a matter of life and death for millions of Americans, the people decided to its time to confront their representatives in a very personal way


It looks like maybe they're going to man those non-existent FEMA relocation camps after all - Internment/Resettlement Specialist?????

http://jobview.monster.com/getjob.aspx?JobID=82289270&brd=1&re=515,14&q=CORRECTIONS&cy=us&lid=316&AVSDM=2009-07-16+09:18:00&pg=1&seq=10&fseo=1&isjs=1&re=1000

Posted by: bruiserND | August 8, 2009 11:33 AM

Take a look at the photo below and see how considerate Obama was for one of his friends. Then consider how he feels toward the rest of us. Also note how the "stupidly acting" policeman is taking care to help Obama's buddy.
What an embarrassing phony the incompetent Obama is.

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/07/31/a-picture-says-a-thousand-words.php

Posted by: LarryG62 | August 8, 2009 11:32 AM

Rather than steal $500 Billion from Medicare, first, before doing anything, eliminate the massive amounts of fraud, not only in Medicare, and Medicaid, but with ALL Entitlement programs.

That should be FIRST, AND FOREMOST; then we will take another look at HealthCare.

TRANSFER OF WEALTH:Obama is funneling 100's of billions in, dollars and benefits, to ACORN the SEIU 32 Czars, poor minorities, even illegals

Posted by: buzzm1 | August 8, 2009 11:31 AM

SELFISH I got mine sore losers thug spouting more of the FEAR MONGERING that got us into Iraq. America is better than this and we proved it when we elected a native born brown man of intellect and integrity. It is necessary for the democrats to keep it simple stupid and finalize the one bill that they will pass. It is also time for President Obama and his professorial ways to change his style and just tell America it is indeed Republicans bought and paid for by the health insurance industry who are rabble rousing and that our nation needs to vote them the hell out of our leadership. The Republican thugs have one thing in common they are all WHITE folks angry that a man of color born in an exotic place to them like Hawaii leads our nation now. Our nations diversity is its greatest strength and that my friends is not going to change you cannot turn the clock back to the days where you got to make all the calls. I applaud the great American stories of the likes of President Obama and Justice Sotomayor. The economy is coming back, we knocked out the top Taliban terrorist, we confirmed a deserving Latina to the Supreme Court all in one damn good week for the White House! Obamanos.

Posted by: pedraza1 | August 8, 2009 11:31 AM

georgedixon1 actually said: "Section 1233 of H.R. 3200. The section, titled “Advanced Care Planning Consultation” requires senior citizens to meet at least every 5 years with a doctor or nurse practitioner to discuss dying with dignity."

That is a lie. Sorry but there is no better way to say it. If you think I'm wrong please cite where it says this is "required". Please cite where is says "dying with dignity".

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 11:30 AM

Obama has an enemies list?? How is he able to do this?

It is against the law for the Executive Branch to collect names of citizens who disagree with the policies of the Executive Branch!!

If Obama stays on this path it will be mandatory for the military to step in and oust his Administration.

When the GOP takes over in 2010 this may well be the only solution to this FAscist in the White House!!

Posted by: charko825 | August 8, 2009 11:30 AM

Has anyone reported REV. Wright and his Church for " FISHY SPEECH" ?

Posted by: noHUCKABEEnoVOTE | August 8, 2009 11:29 AM

There are only two types of comments here: Those from the koolaid poisoned GOP and DNC; and the rest of us, who seek the pure undiluted truth.

No one in America goes without humanitarian medical services.

Why do you think millions of Mexicans sneak in to have their babies here?

Why is California broke?

Tell the truth and don't worry about pseudo outrage from the fat cat pc crowd.

Those of us who are unfettered by partisan dogma had better stand up and spank these partisans who are destroying America.

If Ron Paul would run as an Independent in 2012, rural American's would make it an interesting race.

Posted by: ruralamericans | August 8, 2009 11:28 AM

P-BO could give a rat's a$$ about his dying mother... Lets see...His grandmother is gone and his mother... Gonna make it tough to get a "true" biography on P-BO...

P-BO doesn't like opposition or criticism and does not do well when his authority is questioned or his policies.

These town hall meetings are made up of Americans who are fed up with Washington, doesn't matter who the president is, people were getting fed up with Bush and Congress as well... So you can stop whining about what the administration inherited, as a Senator your votes reflect what you inherited... So don't even go there P-BO... Congress must understand, we are tired of haveing the bailout and stimulus measures crammed down our throats and stop lying to the people about transparency you're no more transparent than Bush, not when a bill is posted in the wee hours of the morning and voted on by 10:00a.m.... Be prepared to see new faces in 2010 if Congress "FAILS" to listen to; "We the people...."

Posted by: rossi1578 | August 8, 2009 11:28 AM

This is the age of information. To learn more about ideas for health care reform, I just found this webpage. It wouldn't hurt to take a look at what President Obama has to say on health care reform. By the way, I don't work for the White House and neither did I vote for him.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-insurance-consumer-protections/

THE SECURITY YOU GET from health insurance reform:

* No Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions
* Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.
* No Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays
* Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.
* No Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care
* Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.
* No Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill
* Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.
* No Gender Discrimination
* Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.
* No Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage
* Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.
* Extended Coverage for Young Adults
* Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.
* Guaranteed Insurance Renewal
* Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won't be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.
----------------------------------------

How can YOU implement these principles for a humane health care policy? Please post your ideas and call your representatives.

Posted by: dummy4peace | August 8, 2009 11:26 AM

Go Obama, do what you think is right, and give these nutcake crackers hell.

Posted by: paulnolan97 | August 8, 2009 11:26 AM

"Give Me Back My Country." Her incident started it all, yet you have not seen her on any televison interviews. She has not been on CNN, FOX NEWS, NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, for interviews. WHY not? Everyone keeps playing the tape:
You want to know why local reporters from delaware didn't question the woman who confronted Republican Mike Castle about Obama's birth certificate? Here's why. She went into hiding. She is reported to be a regular caller on a talk show called Jared Morris WDMG in Delaware. (GOOGLE IT)She perdicted that Hillary would be President. She predicted that Alien contact will be made in October. She said she talk to an angel in human form and that peace among men and negativity will end this year. This is who the republican party, rush limbaugh, g gordon liddy, fox news, lou dobbs, glenn beck and others were pushing out front to lead them.


Palin whom they also pushed is in the background making incendiary comments about Obama having some sort of "Death Panels." But, just like the woman above, she too, went into hiding.

Posted by: MILLER123 | August 8, 2009 11:26 AM

This debate is solely about Obama and the Democrat's quickly trying to pass a government take over of our health care system that will increase costs, decrease choice and eliminate private insurance. The country woke up to their hasty scheme and Obama is sinking in the polls because the public does not trust his state seizure of our health care system.

It's no wonder given the job the state is doing with AIG and GM.

Posted by: djo4 | August 8, 2009 11:25 AM

DaMan2 wrote: "See Section 1233 of the House Bill as well as the WaPO article today...

Thanks for the citation. please explain how it is euthanasia. All it does is allow seniors, if they choose, to have an advanced care consultation with their doctor be paid for by Medicare once every five years, or more frequently if the patient has a life threatening disease. Its purely voluntary but requires Medicare to pay for it if chosen. How is that euthanasia. Do you even understand what euthanasia is?

And, by the way, that provision was a BIPARTISAN provision but I'm sure you'll ignore that fact as well. Facts, so much bother when fantasy and hate are so much more satisfying.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 11:24 AM

Are the Blue Dogs and Republicans really concerned about a "government take-over" or the million$ flowing into their campaigns from the insurance and hospital industries ? Insurance “cooperatives” in the Senate are a clear sign big money is rewriting policies to favor the insurance companies. What not clear is how recent proposals will correct healthcare’s underlying problems – inefficient distribution of services, poor quality control, and a profit driven industry dominated by self interest entrepreneurs and middlemen. Dysfunctional private insurance that adds billions in overhead yet contributes zero value to actual care – a glaring inefficiency that free market manufacturing operations would immediately weed out. And there are no discussions of how modern efficient non-profit clinic models can be expanded, only how campaign contributors will be protected. What IS crystal clear – we can no longer tolerate exclusive business contracts between profit center “providers” (formally doctors and hospitals), grossly inflated pharmaceuticals, an artificially constricted supply of family practitioners, policy agendas written by campaign contributors, and revolving door regulators – and simply frame discussions in terms of “more coverage” and voodoo “socialism”. Otherwise, despite all the hoopla, vastly expanded private insurance and unlimited taxpayer funding, American healthcare will continue to rank 43rd in performance, and No. 1 in cost.

Posted by: jdwil | August 8, 2009 11:23 AM

This all sounds so familiar: the spreading of hate and fear-mongering by the Republicans. They did the same thing with JFK and we saw how that ended up; they seem to be hoping for the same result with Obama. Republicans arre the most anti-American political party to ever exist in this country. They are unfit to govern in a democracy which they have tried repeatedly to turn into dictatorship.

Posted by: proteusdecision | August 8, 2009 11:23 AM

Too many opponents of healthcare reform are casting this as a political battle, imagining theirs a grand principled, patriotic stand against Obama, Democrats and "Socialism."

But this is not about politics.

This is about your family, your extended family, your friends and their families, the people you see everyday at work, when shopping, walking down the same streets as you, and their families and friends.

I guarantee that, if you stopped screaming for a moment and seriously listened to them, you'd discover how many of your near and dear, and, in turn, their near and dear don't have insurance, are worried about losing their insurance, or are anxious about sudden illness testing the reliability of the insurance for which they have paid.

This is about my wife and myself, and our friends and the people we work with, nearly all of whom, like ourselves, work for small businesses without health benefits and simply cannot afford individual coverage or cannot get health insurance at any price due to pre-existing conditions.

In short, this is not political. This is personal.

Those of you mindlessly opposing healthcare reform as if it were just another political battle are doing nothing more, nothing less, than campaigning to condemn us and many people you know to needless suffering and early death.

How do you look at yourselves in the mirror?

Posted by: washpost29 | August 8, 2009 11:21 AM

Obama lies

The bill is not complete so how can he make declarative statements?

What is complete illustrates his lies:

Section 1233 of H.R. 3200. The section, titled “Advanced Care Planning Consultation” requires senior citizens to meet at least every 5 years with a doctor or nurse practitioner to discuss dying with dignity.

ObamaCare, where illegal immigrants get better coverage than the elderly

ObamaCare: going to save America money, but taxes must be raised to pay for it

ObamaCare: Ideology in search of a victim


Just say NO ObamaCare....dissent is patriotic

Posted by: georgedixon1 | August 8, 2009 11:19 AM

DaMan2 wrote: "Sounds like the "government death panel" is too risky to talk about...I guess Sarah Palin was right after all."

please cite a "death panel" in any of the health care bills. If you cannot then you made it up or repeated a lie. How unAmerican of you.


Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 11:11 AM

DaMan2 wrote: "Sounds like the "government death panel" is too risky to talk about...I guess Sarah Palin was right after all."

please cite a "death panel" in any of the health care bills. If you cannot then you made it up or repeated a lie. How unAmerican of you.


Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 11:11 AM

----------------------------------------
See Section 1233 of the House Bill as well as the WaPO article today...

Posted by: DaMan2 | August 8, 2009 11:18 AM

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of Obama's Chief of Staff (the Investment Banker-Lawyer and foul-mouthed hatchet man):


"Ezekiel Emanuel wrote an article for The Hastings Center Report in 1996, in which he suggested that public deliberative forums should decide which health services should be socially guaranteed, and that those services "that ensure healthy future generations, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations" might be considered by this deliberative body as "basic", while "services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed". He goes on to give examples illustrating these two concepts: "not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia", while "guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason".[10]

In 2009, he co-wrote another article on a similar topic, "Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions" in The Lancet Journal.[11]


In other words, Hitler's euthanasia for the severely retarded is OK. From a Jew. From a Jew!!!

Abortion: OK.

Justice Ginsburg opined just weeks ago that the abortions were not available for the right classes.

So, if you are not a devout, wealthy Hyde Park elite, or a Goldman Sachs type, you have NOTHING to worry about, rest assured

Posted by: mmmmm999999m34e56ee91099 | August 8, 2009 11:18 AM

The one thing that deserves to be euthanized is Barry's National Health Care Plan.

Posted by: jshay | August 8, 2009 11:17 AM

Yes, Master. Whatever you say, Master. We believe you. YOU are the change we can believe in.

By the way, have you read the bill yet?

Moron.

Posted by: jshaver001 | August 8, 2009 11:17 AM

postfan1,

Are you being paid to write what you are writing here? If not then can you backup anything you have said with citations?

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 11:14 AM

No one wants a 'government death panel"...Sarah Palin was right.

Posted by: DaMan2 | August 8, 2009 11:14 AM

Prediction; somehow this legislation and it's attendant legal wrangling will find it's way to the Supreme Court. Do the math.

Posted by: techresmgt | August 8, 2009 11:14 AM

It is kind of interesting that one of the new ways to reduce costs seems to be reasoning with older people that they should make some "end of life" decisions sooner rather than later, so that younger people can have access to more health care resources.

Wouldn't it be just as easy to reduce the costs by analyzing doctor pay, legal fees, pharmaceutical profits, and administrative costs?

I guess older people don't have as many lobbyists.

Posted by: postfan1 | August 8, 2009 11:12 AM

DaMan2 wrote: "Sounds like the "government death panel" is too risky to talk about...I guess Sarah Palin was right after all."

please cite a "death panel" in any of the health care bills. If you cannot then you made it up or repeated a lie. How unAmerican of you.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 11:11 AM

What an embarrassment for the incompetent in the White House. He's getting out community organized by ordinary citizens, and he can't stand it. So, al la Clinton, he hauls out the conspiracy crappola.


Read the corrupt, lying democrats' bill, and you will see a blueprint for nationalizing health care.

These lying pieces of feces can't tell the people the truth or they'll be run out of Wshington on a rail.

Maybe even the class envy nitwits are waking up and realizing what a threat this flop eared slug is to their freedoms.
I certainly hope so.

Posted by: LarryG62 | August 8, 2009 11:09 AM

You know what? I am sick of the liars like dottydo who claim that Obama is overthrowing thgovernment and the Constitution. None of them have shown, or can show, that that is truth. Unlike the previous bush adminstration that illegally tapped our phones and e-mail, that pressured the CIA into false intelligence to promote cheney's private war for profit, taht issued signing statements that president bush was above any laws passed by Congress. It's funny how Obama is asking Congress to do its job, to pass bills, unlike bush who threw things out theres and had his lapdogs push his agenda. Republicans can't win,can't tell the truth,so they obstruct and lie. Just like in 2000, when they shipped protestors to threaten and disrupt the Fla. vote count, they believe more belligerence can keep healthcare reform from happening. I am sick of palin, boehner, mitchell and all the other repub liars who hate America. Yeah, they do. They hide behind free speech, but accuse everyone who disagrees as un-American. The frighties continue to call Obama a nazi when they are the ones employing the same tactics that got hitler and his cronies to power: disruption of meetings, false accusations of government and leaders, racism (you know this birther nonsense wouldn't be happening if Obama were all-white), total opposition to any of Obama's ideas and offering nothing else to help this country. You liars don't like this country? Then get out. I hear putin would love to have you.

Posted by: mikel7 | August 8, 2009 11:08 AM

Having failed to convince the American people that the Democrats' health care reform plan is a good one, President Obama has resorted to insulting his critics.
This is a worrisome development.

Posted by: coastofutopia | August 8, 2009 11:07 AM

I think there's a lot of disinformation out there and strong opinions that are largely based on liking or disliking the President (and wanting him to succeed) and not on an good understanding of the bills. And I say bills because there are at least two: one in the Senate and one in the House and they have major differences. Yet, most people speak about one plan when there isn't one, but at least two.

In general, I think we need to remember some facts:
1) Our country is #30 in the world in life expectancy and #1 in spending on health care. In other words, we are not getting what we are paying for.
2) About 15% of Americans do not have health insurance.
3) Nobody (Republicans or Democrats) wants to promote euthanasia, death panels, or get you killed in order to save money.
4) We already have "single-payer", "socialized" medicine in Medicare, and most people on Medicare are satisfied with what they are getting (more so than those on private health insurance).
5) No one is proposing nationalizing medical care, where hospitals would be owned by the state and doctors would be government employees.
6) There are high-costs and great inefficiencies associated with our current health care system in dealing with all the different kinds of billing forms (different for each insurance company) that doctor's offices have to deal with. Any bill that is approved should standardize billing, regardless of whether there is a government plan or not.
7) The same can be said for patients' records. There should be a standard way of recording them electronically, and there should be a central, secure repository of health records, with legal privacy guarantees. This would give doctors much higher quality information on patients, leading to better care, less mistakes, and less time and money spent updating, sharing and keeping records. Again, this is doable with or without a government plan.

Instead of just attacking each other, we should make an effort to provide health care to more people, reduce costs, and improve quality.

Posted by: JPHT | August 8, 2009 11:07 AM

ColoradoLiberal,
Chris Matthews on Hardball had one of these slimeballs on Thursday night and basically called him a liar, to which he had no response except the type of lies we are hearing here. When Chris pressed him for specifics he just spouted more lies that Chris pointed out. It was sad. the guy looked like a new used-car salesman not accustomed to lying but had to for the job. I agree these people need to be called out and pressed to back up what they are saying. No one here has accepted my challenge of citing euthanasia legislation in any of the bills, yet they keep repeating it like drones. What utter worthless examples of Americans these people are, knowingly lying and hoping its accepted as truth.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 11:06 AM

The only way Barry's (Pelosi, Rangel, Reid, Waxman, Fwank) Bloated Socialist Scam can work IS for you to die. If the government pays for extended life with expensive medical treatment the numbers will not add up. Barry and his gaggle of morons will determine, eventually, who gets treatment and when. Some government Wonk / CZAR will have an actuary table that will determine who lives and who dies. As Barry said "take a pill". Close your eyes. And it will be the government because the State will have complete control over your decisions. If you are 60+ yrs old get your house in order. Libs like that....the govt control. They like it.

Posted by: ChangeWhat | August 8, 2009 11:05 AM

Read H.R. 3200 then compare its contents to the words of Obama and the left. If you're too lazy or ignorant to do this then you deserve what is about to befall you.

Posted by: rplat | August 8, 2009 11:04 AM

Sounds like the "government death panel" is too risky to talk about...I guess Sarah Palin was right after all.

Posted by: DaMan2 | August 8, 2009 11:03 AM

There is a message in these demonstrations here for the Administration and CONGRESS. Any bets that they will understand?
Comment by the president will be:
(As that old actor Bill Bixby used to say:)
"What a revolting development this is..."

Posted by: SeniorVet | August 8, 2009 11:02 AM

Obama`s claim that the feds don`t want to take over the nation`s health care system is a blatant lie! The president has destroyed his credibility with distortions,denials,deception and disinformation on a host of issues from health reform to
"cap and trade" and the nation is realizing it.His poll ratings continue to fall because it is clear we can`t trust Obama and his corrupt colleagues,Pelosi and Reid.

Posted by: bowspray | August 8, 2009 11:02 AM

Obviously after reading the bulk of the posts here, the Obama Administration has used much of my tax money (stimulus) to enlist an army (ACORN) of propagandists to post on the web and further his one-sided agenda. We will not go quietly into that good night. Go ahead, ridicule, insult, minimize, make racially offensive remarks; it does not matter. Most of those charged with handling this legislation in Congress have not even READ the document. That which they have not read, they cannot, by definition, understand. I doubt Obama has read and understand the entire document and it's full implications, intended or not; so it is with government intrusion and control. If I want to remodel my kitchen, I don't tear down the entire house or existing structure to do so. Health care reform is probably needed; but not in this way, quickly ramrodded down the throats of American taxpayers without thoughtful debate. We all have a right to voice our opinion, not only democrats and not only the President; the President obviously does not endorse free speech and thought, or intellectual debate from those of different political affiliations. The aforementioned facts are going to be a problem going forward, I suspect, getting any legislation passed without rabid disagreements on all sides. Being an independent, it is easy to see this political folly. United we stand, divided we fall; why would any Administration support such an idiotic and self defeating policy of censoring dissenting views while claiming minorities are oppressed, ad nauseam? Power to the people? I don't believe so. Further proof why space aliens HOVER and do NOT land on this planet. No intelligent life on this rock.

Posted by: techresmgt | August 8, 2009 11:01 AM

Obama is one lying! He trying to get people
to fight one another! He brings no one together!

Posted by: Warthog104 | August 8, 2009 11:01 AM

The Radical Street Activist in the White House is out of the closet. He is a Flaming Socialist, an Alinsky Thug, a Black Liberation Community Agitator and now we find he is paranoid. He is unable to take any criticism. He is so arrogant, egotistical that criticism of his Socialist agenda must be reported to his Administration. Now he is sending out his Union Thugs to rough up American citizens. He, himself, tells his opponents to shut up. He is not a leader, he is a hack. Barry is exposed for the Dictator Street Punk that he is and yes, it is about him.

Posted by: ChangeWhat | August 8, 2009 11:01 AM

My health care is CareFirst via MHIP, a Maryland GOVERNMENT plan to help out people who are denied coverage elsewhere. I pay market-price premiums.

I tried to get coverage from a CareFirst broker. We were denied due to a pre-existing condition with one of my family members. (who btw, is healthier than most in the same age group)

I don't have access to employer insurance since I've started a new company and have no hope of paying the premiums for us, much less new employees.

If the opponents of health legislation had their way, MHIP probably wouldn't be available. After all, it's "socialist". Yet the police force is "socialist" as well, as is the fire department, the highway administration, etc, etc.

I just wish we could drop the the sky-is-falling rhetoric and talk about how this stuff affects real people.

Posted by: mikem1 | August 8, 2009 11:01 AM

Mr. Obama, sir, do not just complain about the tactics used and the misrepresentation of your health reform agenda. You need to call out the underlying perpetrators behind the brown shirts disrupting the town halls.

Names, organizations, PR firms are available, sir. NAME THEM! When light is shone on rats and roaches they will scurry into the cracks and beneath the boards.

Please consult today's LA Times, where you will find an excellent op-ed piece about the gangs trying to stop health reform. Names of PR firms, the Reep organizations they support etc. are all there.

It is no use complaining unless you name the worms behind all the attacks.

Posted by: ColoradoLiberal | August 8, 2009 11:00 AM

ahashburn wrote: "Obama is not being very Presidential in attacking his critics."

At least CIA agents who disagree with him are not being outed.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 10:59 AM

infantry11b4faus wrote: "you thing eunice is getting an end of life lecture?"

Are you able to cite in any of the bills such a provision? Anything? All I'm hearing are crickets but you guys keep saying its there. Where? Hello? Anyone think its important to use facts or do they just get in the way of a good shouting match? Just where is there a euthanasia provision? If you can't cite it then you are lying. Did God say it was ok for you to lie?

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 10:58 AM

You can usually tell how good a bill is by the nature of its opponents. The more desperate and outlandish the charges from opponents, the more likely the bill is to benefit America. Read the bill indeed! The whole bill (or all five of them)!

The more paranoid scumbags like Palin and her semi-literate acolytes rail against this, the more committed I and the MAJORITY of Americans are to passing this.

Posted by: ElrodinTennessee | August 8, 2009 10:57 AM

Obama is not being very Presidential in attacking his critics.

Posted by: ahashburn | August 8, 2009 10:57 AM

Having looked at Obama's record of no accomplishments in the Senate and the private sector, I have to ask this question: what make him an expert on health care or on anything that matters. Our heath care problem and most other problems eating away at our Republic and citizens are the direct results of the off-shoring of our Republic's industrial base and the out-sourcing of our citizen's good jobs and livelihoods by Wall Street interests and thier cadre of career politcians.. Health care in the private sector was earned and paid for by the productivity of the workers and the profitability of businesses. Heath care provided by state, local and federal governments were paid for by the taxes collected from citizens and companies who created wealth and capital in the private sector. Because of Obama's and most other career politician's inexperience and record of non- achievements in the private sector...without ever creating anything of real economic or market value, that and thier malfeasance in office are the reasons for the worsening of our economy and shortly it's catastrophic collapse .

Posted by: 123Njord | August 8, 2009 10:57 AM

We have the best health care in the world today. Yes, there is a problem with the uninsured but that can be addressed without wrecking the high quality system that we have that does work very well for most people. Unfortunately, Obama is simply trying for a power grab which will wreck private insurance companies over time with the result being only the government option will be left. This will be run by the same bureaucrats who 'accidentally' erased the original moon landing tapes (NASA). Do you really want your healthcare in the hands of these inept clowns?

Posted by: DaMan2 | August 8, 2009 10:56 AM

No one is without healthcare in this Country because every State has a welfare health care available.

Pretending that the Country is Kenya is absurd.

Posted by: dottydo | August 8, 2009 10:55 AM

For Barry ACORN Soetoro to deny that a Public Plan is not interned to, over time, replace entirely Private Insurance with a Single Payer Pure Govt Dictating Plan is simply deceitful. He has said it. It is documented, it his his desire and now he does his Radical South Chicago Head Fake. Either his cult members are ignorant in their denial to that or are simply as deceitful as Barry. Either way when there is a LIAR, a FRAUD, a THUG, on many levels, in the White House this Country is in huge trouble.

Posted by: ChangeWhat | August 8, 2009 10:54 AM

you thing eunice is getting an end of life lecture?

"you know its been a long and good life for you. do you really need to waste all these assets when others who are youn ger and have much more life to live should have those assets. are you in pain, we can help, we have medication to help with the pain, but dont use to many - we dont have a lot of them and others might need them."

or do you think she, like fat teddy "i let the biach drown in the car cause i was drunk" kennedy got the best of the best.

and we will never get that.

Posted by: infantry11b4faus | August 8, 2009 10:54 AM

Health care reform is not just dollars and cents. We need a better system.

We need to think differently. We need to think about improving our health statistics, not the ledger statistics.

The Founding Father's genius in the constitution did not include phrases like "to turn a profit" or "to allow the most consumer choice".

It does include phrases like the right to "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

The President is attempting to the job of government. Our health system is failing, many of our citizens are receiving declining care or no care at all.

As a patriotic citizen, the President is attempting to find ways to fix the system, and the solutions must call for repair in how things are done. Not just pay the same companies more money to add to the mess they created.

A government option is not a threat to Liberty, none at all, and can improve our Life and Pursuit of Happiness.

Staying on this same sinking ship of a system will definitely make things worse. We need some radical reform.

Posted by: camasca | August 8, 2009 10:54 AM

"downright evil," death panel." Don't cha' think your stretchin' it abit Sara? Here you are talking about SOME people quit telling lies and you do it yourself. Remember Sara, God don't like you to lie...why that's downright evil don't cha' know.

Posted by: kubrickstan | August 8, 2009 10:54 AM

The Republicans and their hired brown shirts are an abomination. My friends in other advanced nations (Switzerland, Norway, Germany) are looking on appalled as they see these mobs and gangsters trying to intimidate the majority of the American people who want health care into cowering.

Please, Mr. Obama, ensure at all town meetings there are many more of your supporters than n'er do wells. Union people are also good to have, and the D-reps can have them placed all around in strategic places.

These meetings need to be kept orderly and civil or we all lose. If it means some counter-intimidation, so be it. We do what we must and we must get their health reform done this time.

There will be no encores.

Posted by: ColoradoLiberal | August 8, 2009 10:54 AM

Democrats that try to appear victimized by Republicans have become absolute CLOWNS.


It appears that the Republicans are simply quitting participation in this illegal overtake of the US Constitution, daily, doesn't it?

They appear not willing to be part of an Unconstitutional regime of Dictators, and refuse to stay around to have their names appear on a HISTORICAL recall NO CONFIDENCE document filed in every County in their States, at the County recordations offices.
Florida just quit.

The recall documents are not a voter registration ,and can be signed by any legal American citizen.

When they are combined with other Countys in their State, and appear in the Library of Congress.
History will never forget every name on the recall list (which is et al the Congress, The Hill, the cabinet, the Czars, and Obama).
Who would want to stick around for that???

Democrats bellering demands looks clownish, when directed at a growing non participating group of people called Republicans in this Government,( which is now apparently a growing perception that it is an illegal occupation of the oval Offices ,over secret Court intel).

Posted by: dottydo | August 8, 2009 10:51 AM

Mattew, I believe you are wrong. First, you paint with a broad ethnic brush when you say that those who are lawfully protesting ObamaMed are poor and ignorant. Most likely they are better off than the latte crew. My evidence: most are seniors, who are much better off financially than the young latte crew (yes, they are, net worth, possibly defined benefit pensions, etc). So, accuse them of hypocrisy if you will, but not poverty.

Second, the "trailer trash" dig from libs like you ignores the fact that they probably, if they were trailer trash (or maybe you like "white trash"), would have SSDI or Medicare/Medicaid beneficiaries amongst them. So, again, if they protest "government run healthcare), use the "H" word.

But, finally, if the "latte crew" are so wonderful, why are not seeing a push by them and their lobbyists to pay higher taxes? Cuz that sure fell thru didn't it?

That's why they are there: Libs push socialized medicine, while reserving private schools, private planes, private Lexus Lanes on toll roads, tax loopholes for themselves (what's that capital gains rate again, eh??), and private universities for the free ride to Goldman Sachs aka Government Sachs Inc.

The "trailer trash" are not falling for it, anymore. And, of course, the Libs will whip out the race card if anyone dare criticize Obama.

And the ADL will call DHS and Secret Service to investigate, as the Liberal Gestapo.

Odd how the 1st Amendment only applies to Liberal Speech.

Posted by: mmmmm999999m34e56ee91099 | August 8, 2009 10:50 AM

boredbybaseball wrote: "I would like to bet Comrade Obama on getting better, cheaper health care, without rationing (i.e., Euthanasia). But I would be too dead to collect."

So you admit there is nothing in the bills circulating about euthanasia? Its just speculation? Why hasn't it happened with medicare, Medicaid, the VA, Social Security recipients? Why would the government only kill grannies under this plan? Oh how simple some people are. Think for yourself and if you are afraid then at least have the decency to point out what you are specifically afraid of and not what you "bet" would happen.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 10:50 AM

I have stayed away from commenting on this poor excuse for an educated discourse on healthcare reform due to the deteriorating attack tactics of some. We have 50 million people uninsured, more who are underinsured and many who can barely afford to pay for healthcare when they can get it.

The incredible profits in the insurance industry are quite similar to the profits in the oil and gas industry. At a time when the consumer was being charged almost $5.00 a gallon, Exxon reported billions of dollars in profit. Appropriate oversight of insurance access and availability with a reasonable profit would help hospitals and physicians who are drowning in denials, paper work and diverted resources away from patient care to jump through hoops designed to slow or stop appropriate payments for care in the name of profit.

Not to pick just on insurance companies...hospitals and physician offices are also at times inefficient and poorly run, but still provide a good quality of care. We pay more per capita for healthcare than most countries and yet our documented, statistical outcomes are not equivalent to many other countries. If someone were to take the time to drop out the individuals who aren't receiving even the basic care, I would imagine that our health outcomes would be the best in the world.

And for those of you who are most interested in non-government involvement in healthcare...are you ready to give up Medicare to get government out of healthcare? In case you hadn't noticed, Medicare is a government program. While not perfect, I'm counting the days til my husband and I are eligible so we can quit paying $1500 a month to cover us. And, we're healthy! We each go to the doctor once per year, and the last time I was hospitalized was when my last child was born...33 years ago!! Just try to get coverage outside of an employer in your 60's which is almost impossible...now that's passive euthanasia that is being tossed around so carelessly.

Please educate yourself on the proposed bill before you attack based on fear mongering; lobbyist arguments designed to sway a scared public and a Congress who relies on donations to get elected; vested interests who serve to profit from no changes in the current, crippled system; and a political process that is not designed to serve the country!

And, please, be respectful in your arguments. We are deteriorating into a yelling, screaming population that reminds me of the riots in Iran and Iraq and places where sanity is stretched and flags are burned!! I watched the attempts to engage us in the healthcare debate at town hall meetings and the protesters drowned out any attempt at dialogue. We are a better people than that...or at least, we used to be.

Posted by: HealthcareforAll | August 8, 2009 10:49 AM

The Obama administration is a trainwreck. The sad irony is that if he were elected during a time of prosperity he may have been able to push his disasterous agenda without the majority paying attention.

Posted by: akwa01 | August 8, 2009 10:48 AM

Obama has "changed" so much of what he promised during the campaign and after that anything he says should be looked at with suspicion! Not interested in a government run health plan? Well -- you said that was the ONLY way while a senator and during the campaign! Your buddies in congress say the same thing. Is this a "change" or just the basis for another "change" later? Euthanasia? Perhaps not immediately, but you DID say you would NOT offer life-saving treatment to an elderly lady with a hip fracture, didn't you? Was the state of Oregon your "working platform" for this when they recently implemented their plan for "death counselling" of the infirm elderly? And for you to tell any opposing demonstrator to "shut up" and go away -- is that not an infringement on one our Constitutional rights? You did say you were a "Constitutional lawyer", didn't you? SHAME!

Posted by: baltic | August 8, 2009 10:48 AM

Obama reframing the health-care reform debate as "health insurance reform" is like putting lipstick on a pig!

The PelosiObamaReidCare (PORC) health care reform legislation would violate the rights of doctors, patients, and business owners on a massive scale unprecedented in the history of our country.

Doctors on Strike for Freedom in Medicine (http://www.doctorsonstrike.com) cites H.R. 3200 with 10 violations of our rights. The end - universal health care - does not justify the means - gross violations of our rights. The idea that the end justifies the means is something that many left-over lefties behind PORC still embrace. So did Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro, and Chavez. The goals of the collective always require the sacrifice of the individual.

But not here. The United States was founded on the idea of individual rights. Our founding documents are imbued with the philosophy of individualism--that individuals are ends-in-themselves; that we have the right to exist for our own sake; that no one has the right to force anyone to live for the sake of others; that we have the right to be left alone to pursue our own ends in life as long as we do not infringe on the liberty of others to do the same; that we should deal with one another by voluntary means; that the proper role of government is to protect our rights.

Precisely because PORC is a direct attack on individual rights in America, legislators should expect extremely loud (but civil) protests when they meet with their constituents to discuss PORC.

Americans are not stupid. We realize that we must act now to bring a halt to this leftist-led, lemming-like leap into health care he!l. We are mad as he!l, and we are not going to take it anymore!

The politicians are turning a deaf ear to us so we need to crank up the volume until they get the message:

"Earth to politicians: Health care is not a right, doctors are not your slaves, businesses are not your banks, the wealthy are not your wet nurses, and patients are not your pawns."

Dr. Gregory Garamoni
Founder, Doctors on Strike for Freedom in Medicine
http://www.doctorsonstrike.com

Posted by: GLGPHD | August 8, 2009 10:47 AM

President Obama should be commended for his efforts in fixing the economy and taking on health care reform. What a bunch of ungratefuls.
Presidentr Obam didnt make this mess we are in. he has tirelessly worked in resolving these problems and if anything we owe him our thanks for tackling these hrd issues.

if you have disagreement with the Presidents policies, then get involved in a productive discussion, but ranting and raving and threats of violence ( how about the threatof violence against the people at the town hall meetings who went to the meeting for discussion and to learn more about health care reform, The protestors are creating a very threatening environment).

I think a lot of folk are just plain mad that we have a black president and they cant stand the fact. Get over it, grow u and become a productive American. Get involved in discussion, not in creating a hostile environment where the louder you yell, the more people like me realize we need to show support of the President.

Posted by: jamesangone | August 8, 2009 10:46 AM

I would like to bet Comrade Obama on getting better, cheaper health care, without rationing (i.e., Euthanasia). But I would be too dead to collect.

Posted by: boredbybaseball | August 8, 2009 10:45 AM

i'd like to believe him I really would but he lied already about the following:

1-having adequate time to read a bill before he signed it into law

2-his flip flop on single payer(first he wanted it circa 2003 in an AFL-CIO meeting and he couldn't get it until they got the white house, senate and house, then on the campaign he said he couldn't do it and he only wanted it if we were starting from scratch). who was he lying to, the AFL-CIO or the American public??

3-no new taxes on the middle class--who does he think a cigarette tax affects? he's now trying to tax insurers who will just raise rates and then the middle class will pay that in the form of higher rates.


Is he as bad as Bush, absolutely NOT, that'd be hard to do but he's as honest with us as Eliot Spitzer was honest to his wife.

He's lost the benefit of the doubt. He's just another politician pushing an agenda and its bankrupting our country at record breaking speed.

Sure he gets points for saving us from a depression and he should, but i'm afraid that his continuing policies will not spur permanent recovery and we'll linger with 9-10% unemployment for several years.

But the government sector will continue to see record job growth!!!

Posted by: visionbrkr | August 8, 2009 10:44 AM

A Challenge to JaxMax and others:
What is the language in any of the bills that calls for euthanasia? Citations please. If you can't cite specific passages in bills under consideration then you're just blowing lies.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 10:42 AM

We are seeing the ultimate expression of GOP and big health corporation nastiness--lies, fist fights, death threats and Nazi Swastikas. We all know the health reform bill is not about Granny Killing and all that other baloney. We all know that the mobs are web-site inspired with the huge health insurance lobbies and the GOP behind the web sites. Also, media outlets like FOX network (with people like Glenn Beck who jokes about poisoning Nancy Pelosi using California wine) are fomenting the anger.

Are a minority of people angry? Yes. Are web sites and TV outlets whipping them up? Yes. Are the billion-dollar corporations, their lobbies, and the GOP behind it? Yes. If things change the corporations lose the exploitative health insurance goose that lays the golden eggs.

So Obama is right. It is time to come out clearly against all this nastiness, to name lies for what they are, and to call shouting down your neighbor at town halls what that is--anti-free speech behavior.

Posted by: tinyjab40 | August 8, 2009 10:42 AM

What is ironic is that the knckle dragging brownshirts trying to disrupt townhalls at the behest of the Sean Hanities and all are exactly the ones with low paying dead end jobs most likely to have the worst insurance coverage. Those latte liberal types in New York are more likely to have decent insurance. So if the brownshirts win they go back to their trailers with nothing.

Posted by: orange3 | August 8, 2009 10:41 AM

Palin obviously prefers Wall St to ration her care and preside over the "Board of Death" making medical decisions. Very moral.

The outpouring against healthcare reform is mostly cheap populism. Unfortunately that's part of the American political landscape, and if we can keep the schools bad long enough, the electorate can be reduced to highly emotive ignorance and illiteracy. An unthinking mob is a very useful tool.

============

Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin called President Barack Obama's health plan "downright evil" on Friday in her first online comments since leaving office.

Posted by: Matthew_DC | August 8, 2009 10:41 AM

Fact: politicians lie with every breath they take. To expect anything but lies from so ambitious a socialist as Obama is disingenuous in the extreme.

Fact: anyone with any political agenda twists the facts to promote his particular position, framing even the most outrageous of facts in as positive a light as possible without the slightest regard for the truth.

Nothing that is said on any political position ever comes close to representing the truth.

The ONLY reason that Republicans are usually lesser liars than Democrats on this or any other issue lies in the fact that Democrats want more, much more, from government and must lie to extract the funds from their fellow citizens to pay for their utopian, rentseeking dreams.

Posted by: RUKidding0 | August 8, 2009 10:40 AM

Satan seldom shows up as a evil talking/looking ogre with horns and a tail. He appears as a beautiful, smooth talking temptation.

Thugs don't always appear as knuckle-dragging bullies.

But we can see through their deception if we simply avert our eyes and "listen" to what is said - and what has been said.

Our current president is beautiful to look at and his voice seeks to embellish the favor of his countenance. But the content of his own words, when stripped of the visuals and the slick timbre of his delivery are chilling in their implication.

Barak Obama is no garden variety thug. He is the ultimate F1 hybrid -- the fruit of decades of Chicago corruption.

As much as hubby and I have been disappointed by the Bush administration, it all pales to the prospect of Obama's vision for America.

Ironic that the 90% of the media who blow sunshine up our kilts vis-a-vis Obama, will be the first to taste his knife, when and if he gets all the power he seeks -- the 1st Amendment is already under siege and those who make a living from it, are already dead.

God bless those who dare to go to town hall meetings and express the outrage that most Americans feel towards our career politicians -- dems and repubs.

rA


Posted by: ruralamericans | August 8, 2009 10:38 AM

Frankly, I don't know how he got my e-mail address, but the President is kind enough to share his thoughts on health care reform with me every once in a while. Proponents of health care reform have been getting a lot of press lately saying that Republicans are guilty of misinformation, scaring the public, etc. Well, they aren't the only ones making things up out of whole cloth. Here are some excerpts from the President's latest missive on health care:

"It’s time to fix our unsustainable insurance system and create a new foundation for health care security. That means guaranteeing your health care security and stability with eight basic consumer protections:

* No discrimination for pre-existing conditions
* No exorbitant out-of-pocket expenses, deductibles or co-pays
* No cost-sharing for preventive care
* No dropping of coverage if you become seriously ill
* No gender discrimination
* No annual or lifetime caps on coverage
* Extended coverage for young adults
* Guaranteed insurance renewal so long as premiums are paid"

It certainly could be argued that all these consumer protections are commendable. Where things get goofy, though, are the paragraphs that follow:

"Over the next month there is going to be an avalanche of misinformation and scare tactics from those seeking to perpetuate the status quo. But we know the cost of doing nothing is too high. Health care costs will double over the next decade, millions more will become uninsured, and state and local governments will go bankrupt.

It’s time to act and reform health insurance, drive down costs and guarantee the health care security and stability of every American family."

Forgive me but, misinformation? Unless the President is, indeed, a magician - he is lying through his teeth. The price of these eight consumer protections is going to be very high and someone is going to pay. Three guesses as to who that is.

You can bet on one thing - it won't be the hospitals, doctors, nurses, pharmaceutical companies, trial lawyers and insurance companies. Though he warns of the bankruptcy of state and local governments, he's more than willing to add additional burdens wrought by his eight consumer protections. Drive down costs while greatly expanding coverage? NOT A CHANCE!

Posted by: magellan1 | August 8, 2009 10:37 AM

Let's all write "Flag@whitehouse and report the Dems for speaking ungratefully against TAX PAYERS !!!!

Posted by: noHUCKABEEnoVOTE | August 8, 2009 10:34 AM

Obama lacks credibility due to several factors: A) He relies on an Investment Banker-Lawyer and his Brother, who has written of "resource allocation" in alleged medical ethics books, while (B) arranging no-show jobs for his OTHER Oval Office roommate David Axelrod and his own wife.

Obama arranged for his wife to have a 300K job at the UC Hospital, while shuttling off patients to out of the way clinics.

Obama Et Al drip with disdain for the poor, the "less educated," and the expendable.

In fact, if you pull up Dr. Emanuel's writings, there are references to Oregon's euthanasia program and "resource allocation."

While some town hallers are clearly over the limit, it's a bunch of bull to think that Obama Et Al don't think that, like SCOUTUS Justice Ginsburg, believe that the lower class and poor are expendable via Abortion and Euthanasia.

The ultimate insult is that Jews such as Emanuel and Ginsburg on the one hand despise Hitler for his eugenics and death camps, but then advocate for a lesser form for blacks and the poor.

Limousine Liberals see no harm in aborting an unborn child, refusing life-saving treatment for the disabled poor, or executing the old and infirm.

Nazis in Gucci, with "green" vacation homes and Priuses.

That's what America is up in arms about.

And name-calling liberals respond with more name-calling.

And the people upset about ObamaMed are cognizant that the "health care" lobby is well into the pockets of Congress and the White House.

Would we expect any less from Obama and his long, cozy relationship with the elites of Hyde Park, UC Hospital, the Emanuel I-banking Euthanasia Docs, and the cush jobs at UCH?

Axelrod, the Stuy High Guy, and "Rahmbo" are like Jewish Nazis, driving Mercedes while pushing the "Volkswagen" "people's cars" for the masses.

Along with Ivy League eugenics, abortion mills, and socialized medicine for the peasants.

Posted by: mmmmm999999m34e56ee91099 | August 8, 2009 10:31 AM

HOW CAN HE CALL IT "OUTLANDISH" ... Protesters are reading the Bill ... he didn't . WHY OH WHY does he tell the protesters to behave ? They are not the ones threatening to beat people up ... HIS THUGS ARE ! The people are not settling for DEMOCRAT CHEAP LIP SERVICE. They want answers . That is what's lathering up the HEATHEN IN CHEIF. Even the half of the country that he though was completely spellbound is waking up the their shenanigans and double tongued "SPEECH TRICKS"

Posted by: noHUCKABEEnoVOTE | August 8, 2009 10:30 AM

OBAMA TARGETS CHURCHES FOR E-MAIL SURVEILLANCE

The White House set up an Informer Site “flag@whitehouse.gov” to intimidate and prosecute Churches sending e-mails opposed to the euthanasia and abortion provisions of ObamaCare.

Since the media are uniformly secular, the Church target was not on their radar screen.

Sen Cornyn from Texas confirmed publicly Obama keeps an enemies list and this "informer" web address.

Posted by: JaxMax | August 8, 2009 10:29 AM

kingfish20815 wrote: "Guys - if costs are to be controlled - the population must be culled of those who cost money. They say that is not in the offing - you all live in DC - what do you really think."

I realy think that if you are going to worry about someone wanting to kill those who cost too much it would be those who work to make a profit who will do it. I already have experienced health insurance companies denying treatments that were needed. I have experienced first hand how they refused to pay when they were legally bound by contract to pay and fought for years to make them pay. I argued with an insurance company when I called to tell them my mother, who fainted after screaming in pain, was going to be taken by ambulance to the hospital because they had a requirement to be called if you went to the hospital. They told me to put her on the phone and they would not accept that she was unconscious and told me not to put her in the ambulance. I told them she was going and if they did not cover it I'd sue. They covered it but if I followed their cirections she would have been "culled".

Yet you think the government has some need to kill people to control costs when this has not happened under the VA, Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security. But please, don't let facts or common sense get in your way. Believe that liburals are out to kill old people and save money if that is how you can make it through your day. Trust your insurance company when they say your treatment is not needed or not covered or not allowed. Just hope what happens to many will not happen to you.

And the next time you need a policeman remember that he is a socialist product of the state, so call Blackwater instead. Avoid national highways paid for by socialist federal tax money and use toll roads instead. And when your house is on fire don't call a fireman paid for by taxes, that's the socialist solution. And pull your kids out of those socialist public schools for crying out loud and home school them where you can make sure they don't learn the truth but are raised to believe in fairy tales and conspiracies just like you.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 10:29 AM

ObamaCare_Sociialism, Abortion and Euthanasia

Strong Resistance is building to Obama, particularly among the elderly who are the euthanasia targets. ObamaCare was supposed to be a slam dunk for Obama. Obama is sending Union thugs to restore “order” at town hall meetings of the elderly during the August Congressional recess. The meetings are broadcast widely on You-Tube which is a secular video website which permits users to upload homemade videos. Posters of a fictional character the Joker, with Obama’s face superimposed and the word “Socialism” underneath are being posted publicly in Los Angeles and aroused fierce indignation from the media–who ignore the Informer Website from the White House.

Many Bible believing Christians are horrified by the abortion and euthanasia provisions openly inserted in the ObamaCare bill.

Obama says on tv that some elderly should not get treatment–just give them a pill.

Some Christians have begun to ignore or rather opt out the secular political developments, even though these developments are prompted by evil spiritual forces, particularly Obama’s worldview.

But many Bible believing Christians (which are sadly a minority) are adopting the Caleb’s Effective Minority Opposition, from the book of Numbers Chapter 13 in the Bible.

This has 3 steps:

First, Publicly and loudly oppose political provisions which are anti Biblical.

Second, if we lose we will be collectively punished as the USA is punished, (and the USA will) just as Joshua and Caleb had to wander around with Israel 40 years even though they were NOT individually guilty. There was NEVER a direction for Joshua and Caleb to separate from their people.

Third, G-d rewarded Joshua and Caleb individually for their opposition.

ObamaCare--VOTE NO--Choose Life

Posted by: JaxMax | August 8, 2009 10:27 AM

"Obama takes aim at critics" - Maybe it was unintentional WaPo, but that phrase is starting to take on menacing overtones.

Posted by: get_it_right | August 8, 2009 10:25 AM

Fortunately the loud mouthed, lying minority backed by insurance company propaganda and Republican obstructionists political tactics, are far out numbered by rational,informed minds and people who need health care. People will not forget what Republicans have done to keep Americans from having the health care they do...that we all pay for. Get out of the way, the train is coming Repubs.

Posted by: clairevb

>>>>>>>.
You sound as confident as the Nazi wermacht did with their train.
I think it is actually that same fear is a easier mechanism for the potential of race, age, or party affiliation elimination.


Can you explain the phenomena of "the majority" signing a No Confidence Petition recall of this 2009 Federal governemt, recording the document in their County recordations offices, and then entering it with other Countys in their States as a document in the Library of Congress????

That is a Historical document from every single State of the majority in the Union.

What can Obama's donkey holes , and the Federal CLOWNs say back?

There are 57 states?

Posted by: dottydo | August 8, 2009 10:24 AM

PREVIEW OF COMING WEBCASTS

Intro documentation
on screen and read with background of homeless in California and homeless shelters:

The Bureau of Labor Statistics August 7, 2009

“The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks or more)
rose by 584,000 over the month to 5.0 million. In July, 1 in 3 unemploy-
ed persons were jobless for 27 weeks or more. (See table A-9.)”

The New York Times August 8, 2009:

“But never in the 61 years of recordkeeping has one-third of the unemployed, currently 14.5 million people, been out of work for 27 weeks or more.”


THE WEBCAST SCRIPT
The Obama Unemployment Class of February 2009

SCENE: Large Football stadium. The stands are filled with anxious families. Professors in Academic Gowns on stage.

MUSIC: Pomp and Circumstances Graduation theme playing

SCENE: Excited and anxious young African American Couple sitting in stands with their 5 year old son. Clothes are worn and threadbare. They are sitting next to an excited older 50 year old white couple.

African American 5 year old: What does this mean Mommy?

Mother: I am praying this means Daddy’s getting a job. Its been a long 6 months.....

50 year old Woman-Its been rough, we’ve been evicted, but they must have called us here for a job!!

Mother-squeezes husband’s hand–they do not say anything

Obama Hack:

Welcome. You are the First Obama Unemployment Class of 2009!!!

You had a job when Obama took office, but then you lost your job.

Its been a long 6 months........

Voice in Crowd–Amen!!

Obama hack: You have turned in applications, you have waited in lines, you have struggled on unemployment check

Crowd pan–People crying

Obama Hack: Its been a long 26 weeks–but today, this very day you will be REMOVED from the unemployment rolls !!!!!

Crowd: Pandemonium, excitement cheers

Crowd voice: You got us a job?

Obama Hack– No........but Obama is REMOVING you from the unemployment list because you have been on the list their for more than 26 weeks!!

Crowd pan–dejection anger

Obama Hack–So now you shall officially DISAPPEAR

MUSIC has been reduced in volume but still in background, fade to Obam Joker Poster and then extremely loud discordant music crash.

Fade to black from Obama Joker Poster.

Posted by: JaxMax | August 8, 2009 10:24 AM

Corrections to

NEW MEDICARE:

I. SEPARATE health insurance from employment:

IF we can separate our health insurance from our jobs, treat everyone as an individual only, and use subsidies for all without a job, you will have family members who need subsidies.

II. AGI-based Medicare taxes:

Let's tax Adjusted Gross Income for our Medicare taxes: IF we increase the Medicare tax rate from the current 1.45% to, say 5%, based on our AGI with NO limit, and our employer pays 10% on our wages with NO limit for the worker alone, a worker with a salary of $50,000 without any other incomes, will have to pay $2,500 per year, while his or her employer will pay $10,000 for the worker alone. The family of the worker will go on subsidies IF he or she is the only person employed.

III. ADD AGE-based Premiums: There is a need for age-based premiums to compensate for income-based Medicare taxes. Everyone gets old and older people tend to get sick more. For example, we can charge $1 for a one-year old, and $40 for a 40-year old per month.

IV. Service-based Copays: To control costs, we need to charge affordable copays for visits and prescriptions.

V. Figure out a way to treat those that are near 65 fairly. They have paid most of their life for Medicare.

Thanks for your comments!

Posted by: dummy4peace | August 8, 2009 10:24 AM

Those who define Medicare accurately as a government health plan leave out a quite important feature of Medicare- its unfunded liablilities are in the stratosphere, one more "comapassionate" program we cannot pay for. Obama favors single payer. Barney Frank assures us that a "public option" is the best way to get to single payer. Government run health care will be a disaster for this country and rational people know it.

Posted by: mhr614 | August 8, 2009 10:24 AM

Our political parties have taken this away from the American people. Both parties are playing on our emotions and our intelligence. There are five bills being reviewed right now. NONE of them are even close to similar. Instead of tackling the issue and educating us, Congress has taken the road of pitting D's vs. R's in a "battle royale". It shows in the comments already posted. People are name calling and making judgment without knowing the facts. The biggest fact that is missing is what any government option will include. If we could guarantee that levels of care would be better and costs would be lower I believe more people would be on board with it. However, when in anyone's lifetime have you been able to buy something that is better for less cost? It goes against all principles of capitalism. On the other hand, if the insurance benefits of the public option had an annual maximum of $10,000 for a family and cost us a little bit less than we are currently paying for private insurance most of us would say forget the public option it isn't as good as what I currently have.

Instead of picking sides why don't we step back and ask the questions that all of us ultimately desire: What are the benefits in a Government Run plan and what are the costs? What impact will this really have on my finances? How does my physician fit into the equation? Is this sustainable over the long term with reducing health care costs?

None of these questions are being answered. Instead we are focusing on keeping our plan, euthanasia, mandates, and whether the persons we voted for are right or wrong.

I would say at this point all of them are wrong. Until they answer the questions that impact us as consumers with certainty then we are doing nothing more than fighting against each other instead of fighting for what is right.

Posted by: advocate007 | August 8, 2009 10:23 AM

Sounds like the Joker's new policy is it's my way or the highway attitude. If you just listen to what he says and sees what he does you'll realize this guy is conman. In his world 2+2=5, you spend more to lower your debt, you close gitmo yet it's still open, you say I'll end the war in Iraq yet were still in Iraq, you pass a stimulus because it's necessary to keep unemployment at 8% yet it's at 9.4% and so forth. Hope and change suckers!

Posted by: theBozyn | August 8, 2009 10:23 AM

1. Medi-Care is a Single Payer Plan.

Medi-Care is Government Run Health Care and Some Of You Low Life's call it [Socialized Medicine]

2. The DOD:The Dept.Of Defense, is also a Single Payer Plan.

Government Run Health Care, You Low Life's call it [Socialized Medicine]


3. The VA:Veterans Admin.Hospitals are also Single Payer Plans, Government Ru Health Care.

4. Federal Employees, FBI, CIA, US Postal & Amtrak Employees, have Government Sponsored Health Care also.


This Argument is Mundane and Menaingless, an Excercise in those that Hate Pres.Obama. Anything he does or will ever so will always be met with Strong Opposition and Great Hate.


Its Sad, You are Witnessing Hate Mongers, Sore Losers, Racist, Palin-McCain Voter Anger, Those Wanting to SEE only a White Person as Commander In Chief and those in Campaign 2012 Mode, In Hi-Gear.


That's is what you are Witnessing in Opposition of Health Reform.

To be Truthful, All those Riotous Rebel Rousers have Little or No Health Insurance.

Having 40%-70% Health Care Coverage is the Equivalent of having No Insurance.

When they get that 40,000 dollar Bill, its Bankruptcy, Change Your Name, Leave the Country, Homelessness or Suicide.

Under-Insured & Un-Insured and Barely Insured is No Insurance at all.

And those out there Hell Raising Fit All Categories Noted Above.
---------------

Posted by: omaarsblade | August 8, 2009 10:18 AM

I have a living will. I went to my doctor and gave him the living will and told him what I expected should I become unable to speak for myself. I did not need to make a special appointment or pay the doctor for discussing this with me. It was part of my office visit. I have been in emergency rooms over the years. One of the first questions you are asked, before treatment is begun, is to you have a living will or a health care directive. I drew up my own living will. I used to work as a secretary for an attorney who did estate planning. He was adamant that his clients all have living wills and medical powers of attorney so that there would be no problem should his clients become mentally disabled. Because I worked for him, I spoke with my family members. I told them that they needed to think about living wills and medical powers of attorney while they were young and vibrant and in control of their faculties so that there would be no problems when they were no longer young and vibrant and in control of their faculties. I still tell people this. I have been lucky in working for law firms and having access to boilerplate forms. I have made my own documents. You can go to Staples or any of those office type places and purchase these forms and adopt them to your needs. There is no reason for people to fear thinking and talking about "end of lift" issues. If people like Sarah Palin are too dim to see the necessity of preparing for when they are no longer around (has Ms. Palin made arrangements for the care of her son in case she and her husband are killed in some type of accident). Has Ms. Palin put in writing how her son is to be cared for in case of a healtcare crisis for him in case she or her husband are not able to do so at the time of the emergency? Any adult human being needs to think of "end of life issues," and to make provisions for emergency situations, while they are able to do so.

Posted by: averageone | August 8, 2009 10:17 AM

I am an Independent for the public plan. It seems not many posters are really interested in solutions, but venting out emotions. IF this continues, our health care problems will not be resolved, which will drag down our economy with it in the near future.

The fear factor of bankrupting our country with a public plan is being played out by opponents. Another reason for opposing the public plan is that I don't want to pay for the uninsured, who do not work. The way our economy goes, more of us will become jobless and uninsured. When swine flu or other infectious disease strikes us, it's safer for all of us to have access to health care fast. With all the money you have got, you still have to live in an open neighborhood. Now there is no point in quarantine anybody with swine flu.

Below is my idea of a NEW MEDICARE. Your comments are much appreciated.

I. SEPARATE health insurance from employment:

IF we can separate our health insurance from our jobs, treat everyone as an individual only, and use subsidies for all without a job, you will have family members who need subsidies.

II. AGI-based Medicare taxes:

Let's tax Adjusted Gross Income for our Medicare taxes: IF we increase the Medicare tax rate from the current 1.45% to, say 5%, based on our AGI with NO limit, and our employer pays 10% on our wages with NO limit for the worker alone, a worker with a salary of $50,000 without any other incomes, will have to pay $2,500 per year, while his or her employer will pay $10,000 for the worker alone. The family of the worker will go on subsidies IF he or she is the only person employed.

III. ADD AGE-based Premiums: There is a need for age-based premiums to compensate for income-based Medicare taxes. Everyone gets old and older people tend to get sick more. For example, we can charge $1 for a one-year old, and $40 for a 40-year old per month.

IV. Figure out a way to treat those that are near 65 fairly. They have paid most of their life for Medicare.

Now before you shout, please consider my idea positively. I have no party affiliation and am fully insured. I am just trying to help everyone as we are all on the same boat. Thanks!

Posted by: dummy4peace | August 8, 2009 10:16 AM

laSerenissima2003,

Seems the people in the USA have a two word response to the arrogance of the people who demand rather than represent.

NO CONFIDENCE
and are now becoming known by 2 words.

BEAR REVOLT


The TEA PARTY REVOLT was brushed off as the Nation's business owners decided without representation in the Federal Government, they would sabbatical and not earn any profits to tax, to support this regime. They demand taxation with representation, for themselves and the unborn.
The Country was founded on that premise...remember????

IRS has no money for Obamaland in the coffers.
Maybe it is unwise to try to diminish the resolve of "the people" in the USA.

Posted by: dottydo | August 8, 2009 10:15 AM

Obama still puishes back on a basis of "here are the things which will not change." And on good stuff like "everyone will be covered." But,what he is not doing is clearly delineating who will pay for this, how it will impact insurance rates, taxes, wages, and the like. We need the whole picture here to consider -- not "a chicken in every pot" kind of rhetoric.

All I want is the truth to evaluate -- not campaign speaches. The American people deserve thew truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the trust here.

Posted by: DOps | August 8, 2009 10:11 AM

What a stinking disappointment Obama has turned out to be as president. A president should never attack our own citizens as bitter, religious, or stupid while fecklessly apologizing to every dictator in the world. And telling his staff to punch those who voice opposing opinions? And setting up a government web site where citizens are encouraged to denounce other citizens? What the heck is going on here? No president who was born here would ever act like this.

Posted by: georgejones5 | August 8, 2009 10:10 AM

sandynh wrote: "I can only say to President Obama - You need to read the legislation - then maybe you will understand why people don't believe you and are protesting at town hall meetings. Your glib promises do not jibe with the written words in HR3200. Plain and simple."

Maybe you could point out Obama's words and tell us which words in HR3200 they do not jive with? I have heard no one arguing against any of the healthcare bills actually quote the bills, they just use terms like "death panels" and "euthenasia" or "kill grandma". If you have some specifics we'd like to hear them, otherwise you're no better than Palin spreading FUD. You think its "plain and simple", fine, let's hear the "plain and simple" facts by pointing out some specifics in the bill(s) and why they are bad.

I really do not expect a valid reply on this. Just more FUD.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 8, 2009 10:10 AM

At this point, all the bills have been compromised into irrelevance by the health care companies. I think they're all actually FOR the bills now, since they actually PROTECT the status quo! At this point the plans have devolved into adding 47 million people, with half the costs going to taxpayers, and half the costs going to people who have to share their medicare benefits.

Somehow, amazingly, we've even lost the "tax the rich" part.

Any bill that fails to address doctor pay, health care legal costs, pharmaceutical profits, and administration cannot honestly be called reform!!!

Posted by: postfan1 | August 8, 2009 10:09 AM

Among the many evils Obama has visited upon this once great country is the notion that taxpayer dollars should fund the great evil of abortion.

Many are praying this fails, that he fails, and the unraveling of his administration is the consequence of these holy appeals.

No country that kills its children has a future, and it is time for all pro-abortionists to GET THIS once and for all.

Posted by: jeffiej1 | August 8, 2009 10:08 AM

Fortunately the loud mouthed, lying minority backed by insurance company propaganda and Republican obstructionists political tactics, are far out numbered by rational,informed minds and people who need health care. People will not forget what Republicans have done to keep Americans from having the health care they do...that we all pay for. Get out of the way, the train is coming Repubs.

Posted by: clairevb | August 8, 2009 10:08 AM

Plain and simple, Mr. Obama is not being forthright. I expect more from our President.

No one knows yet what will be in the healthcare reform bill that is ratified. But, we do know there is a strong democrat-led effort to create a government run healthcare system in addition to medicaid/medicare. We know that once such a program is launched, it will be expanded. That's how our government does business, and that's especially how liberals do business.

Euthanasia? Maybe not now, but maybe later. I would never trust our government on that, and I sure don't trust so-called medical ethicists.

Taxpayer funded abortions? You bet ya. Pelosi's already said so.

Instant taxpayer-funded coverage for ILLEGAL immigrants? Yep, Pelosi is pushing for that too.

Whatever these so-called progressives don't get, they'll continue to push for year in and year out.

Healthcare reform isn't the issue. Pressing liberal social agendas is, and Obama is a liberal.

Posted by: JHG_sec405 | August 8, 2009 10:06 AM

votingrevolution,
Apparently the "fishy people" as a huge majority of the Country will be leaving all their names in American history forever, in recordations offices and the Library of Congress stating No Confidence.

Germany didn't have a tool called the US CONSTITUION where the Country is run by the people, of the people, and for the people.

The documented "the people" consensus rules legally, and anything else is considered rogue.

Posted by: dottydo | August 8, 2009 10:05 AM

THIS is bipartisanship?

Nice.

There are extremists on both sides of this issue. Pulling out some extremists as representive of how an entire group of people think is partisan politics, and right now it seems that both parties are at their dirtiest.

I sense that most of the American public is in the middle on this issue.

Most of us just want affordable care for everyone. We realize that it won't be free, but we do expect congress to give their best effort towards reforming health care costs.

Sadly, most of us feel let down at this point.

Posted by: postfan1 | August 8, 2009 10:02 AM

So many are working so hard to create a system that protects Americans and does not discriminate against the sick who cannot afford quality care. For those who like Palin calls call provisions death squards demean this country and all who are honestly trying to create solutions.

Posted by: epp404 | August 8, 2009 10:02 AM

Guys - if costs are to be controlled - the population must be culled of those who cost money. They say that is not in the offing - you all live in DC - what do you really think.

Posted by: kingfish20815 | August 8, 2009 10:02 AM

If only the people shouting down speakers at health care town hall would take the time to actually read the various bills under consideration they'd realize what lies, distortion, half-truths they are being fed by the rightwing.They would realize that they are being shamelessly exploited by Rush Limbaugh and his ilk (funded behind the scenes by the insurance lobby and big pharma).

Americans need to remember that most of us are only a pinkslip away from being uninsured - and that means no healthcare. Americans need to remember that for most of us who currently have employer paid for health insurance - insurance bureaucrats and bean counters are already interfering in the doctor/patient relationship, they are already determining which doctors you see, what prescriptions you get, etc.

Posted by: laSerenissima2003 | August 8, 2009 10:00 AM

hahaha! looks like the 'joker-in-chief' socialist olameo can't stand the heat when people use his own tactics against his incompetent policies...whine-whine-whine. His moron sidekick Pelosi cries foul when its obama that has called up his grassroot thugs (ACORN-SEIU) to actually be the violence in the town-halls. Liberal Demorats are nothing but pure Hippocratic idiots.

Posted by: JWx2 | August 8, 2009 9:59 AM

It seems that the voice of the people will be heard much louder and longer than it was on the "NO" on bailouts and again on Porkulous.

Pelosi caused the Bear Republic to growl back, when she told "the little people" she was dictating to, that they are astroturf.

The Bears Revolted.

Apparently, a petition that is a one liner no frills statement is showing the signatures of all legal citizen (not a voter registration so all ages )who will live in the Library of Congress after it is recorded in local County recordations offices as a "recorded document"

It apparently reads something like this:


The following undersigned citizens want a redress of the Federal Government of the United States of America for NO CONFIDENCE and recall (names of all) Congress, The Hill, the cabinet, Czars, and Obama.


If 49 other States enter a majority rule NO CONFIDENCE recall into the Library of Congress, as a document from their State, it will be a BEAR REVOLT

Posted by: dottydo | August 8, 2009 9:58 AM

I hope they keep up with their Saul alinsky tactics.It's really doing them wonders is the polls!! Us cowardly americans. should stop acting stupidly or else the armatures in Washington will send the Seacret service,for fishy behavior!!

Posted by: votingrevolution | August 8, 2009 9:54 AM

Read the bill- single payer is not even being considered. Pay attention- if you like your insurance, you can keep it. The premiums will probably go down.
Or is it that you'd just prefer to make stuff up?

Posted by: kevinray | August 8, 2009 9:54 AM


Has he actually *read* the bill he's prepared to sign?

Posted by: waterfrontproperty | August 8, 2009 9:53 AM

I'm so tired of seeing this flop eared arrogant turdhead out there promoting himself.
Worse yet, the slobber and drool treatment he gets from the phonies in the media.

His town hall meeting in Elkhart was a scam, with hundreds of ACORN types brought in and being paid for it at that. Media cover or eport that?

Nope, they focus on the citizens who are fed up with his crappola, and try to demonize them.

What a bunch of sewage sludge...Obama ths incompetent, and the dishonest media who prop him up.

Pathetic and contemptible.

Posted by: LarryG62 | August 8, 2009 9:53 AM

The greatest president ever?? Joking right??? So far since he has been in office, he has taken over car mfg, banks,gotten us 1.7 trillion in debt in 7 months. Wants to take over healthcare. Him & his bride have date night every week on the tax payers dime. Is buying 8 new jets so Pelosi can fly in comfort at 5.5 million of our dollars, we have lost 1 million jobs and the stimulus has done nothing. He has his thugs beat up people that disagree with him, He has Rahm Imanuel's brother which is a doctor be his health care consultant, that said on this plan if a 2 year old & a 22 year old had some disease, he would pick the 22 year old for treatment because he is already educated and wouldn't be a burden on society?? Yeah, he's a great one alright!!!

Posted by: releggneh1 | August 8, 2009 9:52 AM

Mr. Shear, just like reporting on a tennis match, right? WRONG. Lives are at stake. Show some responsibility man. Whether the Corp.s will continue to rape and plunder, or whether we-the-sheeple finally will stand up - the Soul of America is at stake. Mr. Shear, stand with the Truth or be quiet. There is important Reporting that is needed.

Posted by: start_loving | August 8, 2009 9:42 AM

Can anyone say the word "TREASON"!

Posted by: nedlip | August 8, 2009 9:40 AM

Not sure how the president can compete with the utterly false but undeniably loud anti-health care rhetoric being generated by the insurance industry, the GOP and their violent tea baggers.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Posted by: parkerfl1 | August 8, 2009 9:38 AM

DwightCollins wrote:
why did the dems call in the union thugs to use against their own registered dem voters???

You need to document your source that you are using to claim this. Otherwise, you are a big fat liar.

Posted by: swatkins1 | August 8, 2009 9:28 AM

Because Medicare doesn’t pay for this kind of planning now, only 40 percent of seniors who depend on the government insurance say they have an advance directive that tells healthcare providers what measures they do and don’t want used to prolong their life, even though 75 percent say they think it’s important. The lack of planning actually costs a lot of money. Medicare spends billions and billions of dollars annually on expensive treatment during the last year of a dying patient’s life. Without allowing Medicare to pay for end-of-life consultations, it’s hard to know whether patients even want to go to such expensive lengths.

He hasn’t read the bill, of course, but that doesn’t stop Rush Limbaugh from telling his vast audience of credulous seniors that the bill contains a compulsory euthanasia clause.

To all you knuckle draggers out there...your mama papa and grandma should be planning for end of life. If you don't understand this, you are incredibly stupid. Do you really want doctors to keep your relatives alive waaaaaaay past anything even resembling quality of life? (Oh. Sorry. Knuckle dragging neo-cons don't understand or comprehend. This means that your relative is brain dead, will not recover, and the doctors are doing nothing but artificially keeping them alive. And YOU ARE PAYING FOR IT.)

Posted by: swatkins1 | August 8, 2009 9:19 AM

Barack Obama is the best President America has seen for a long time. His intentions and instincts are great overall, but most importantly, his inclination is to transform America, so that it become a better place for us all.

I know there are forces out there that want to destroy him for various and chief among them is: Envy.

Envy is the wickest of all deadly sins and the republication leadership is guilty of that. Therefore, I encourage the good and decent Americans not to be swayed by the evil intent of a few, who are hell bent on casting Obama down.

Posted by: tafari1_20001 | August 8, 2009 9:15 AM

Why does it seem so difficult for many people to see that behind these fear-mongering lies are the insurance companies - and the politicians who have reaped huge donations from them. Of course they don't want reform or regulations, they're continuing to reap the benefits of our current broken system. And they will do anything to kick up the fears of the American pepole. Health benefits are indeed going to bankrupt this country. For all who do not undertand or believe this, I would suggest you look at how much your company pays for health costs; and if they don't, it's because they cannot afford the premiums. Actually I and most Americans do want and see the benefit of a public option. Unfortunately this current fight over health reform is being ratcheted up by the same people who supported Mr. Bush's war in Iraq. That was a mistake and so are their current tirads and lies about the health reform bill that is STILL being worked on. Democrats are not Nazis, they are not going to kill people, they are not going to take your choices away from you. Wake up Conservatives and realize that the big business you continue to support, cares only about their own profits.

Posted by: kmhicken | August 8, 2009 9:14 AM

I just don't get it! Why so many otherwise intelligent folks are NOT examining the facts of this so-important health-card reform effort and/or why/how it will work better for all in the long run? Why folks are shooting themselves in their own "foots" while jumping on the bandwagon whose banner is KEEP STATUS QUO no matter what! And for what? Loyalty to being held hostage by their favorite lobbyists, pharmaceutical and insurance companies? Resist the notion that what is good for one is good for all? That it is just not in my own back yard I live? I just don't get it!

Posted by: raecpr349 | August 8, 2009 9:14 AM

spiris333 wrote:
Senior citizens on medicare will not stand for obama's slashing of payments to their doctors and the plan to euthanize senior citizens.
Obama's thug tactics will be dealt with at the next election.

Please document your source that Obama is going to slash payments to doctors and euthanize senior citizens.

And good luck at the polls next election cycle. Your leaders Palin and Limbaugh are making my life so much easier. Good boy. Roll over. Your masters Limbaugh and Palin have ordered you to comply.

Posted by: swatkins1 | August 8, 2009 9:12 AM

I'll be eager to see if Mr. Obama's Attorney General Eric Holder makes sure the charges of assault and the arrests of the bussed-in SEIU goons in St Paul get DISMISSED, just like he did, the Black Panthers' charges at the polls on election day.

There was no violence, until Obama's supporters stormed the meetings to "defend" his plan.

Americans will be watching very carefully to see Mr. Obama condemn these tactics and this violence committed on his behalf.

We lifetime Democrats may leave the party, if he chooses not to do so.

Posted by: auntmo9990 | August 8, 2009 9:03 AM

Obama's lies and deceit are the hallmark of his administration.
Instead of acting like a president, he continues to ramrod an unworkable health care scheme that will ultimately cause deaths, while waiting on the rationing of health care, that is inevitable.

Senior citizens on medicare will not stand for obama's slashing of payments to their doctors and the plan to euthanize senior citizens.
Obama's thug tactics will be dealt with at the next election.

Posted by: spiris333 | August 8, 2009 8:59 AM

You want to see something funny? While watching one of the townhall meetings where the hillbillies scream at the top of their voices, mute it & watch. It would look like you walked into a kennel with unruly dogs.
To all the hillbilies who have become the pawn of the amoral Insurance Industry: the end of life instructions/living will which they call "Obama's euthanesia program" was inserted in the bill by a pedigreed republican...Georgia's Sen.Isackson. How about that!

Posted by: sarvenk63 | August 8, 2009 8:53 AM

This President with these illegal acts of gathering emails and conversations about information from one citizen about another American citizen has broken the law and he is not upholding the constitution that he was elected to do. This is contrary to 1974 privacy act.

As always the main stream media is no where to be found these days when it comes to reporting facts or informing the public about illegal and unconstitutional acts.

This current attempt for erosion of the peoples civil liberties, being performed from the white house against the people of America has not been seen since the Nixon years.

All criticism about Obama and his policies are labelled as racist, yet the only racist remarks keep emanating directly from and within the white house.

It is time for criminal charges to be laid in a court of law against Obama and his administration and unelected gang of czars for these unconstitutional acts against the American people.

Time for Congress and the Senate to hold hearings on the possible impeachment of this President for such illegal activities sponsored and directed from the white house and for an independent prosecutor to be appointed.

Posted by: peterclarke1 | August 8, 2009 8:47 AM

"At town hall meetings, several people have been arrested for disrupting the proceedings."

What Michael Shear, Because of his pro-Obama bias, fails to disclose with this statement that the people being arrested are Obama-supporting union thugs who are being brought in to silence protestors.

Posted by: alvint | August 8, 2009 8:39 AM

Posted by: MikeLicht | August 8, 2009 8:34 AM

The economy loses another 257,000 jobs while another over 400,000 job seekers become discouraged and give up looking for a job. Obama gives Rahm a high five and says, "My administration has avoided an economic catastrophe."

Obama wouldn't recognize the truth if it hit him in the face. I really suspect he is a pathological liar. Why should we believe anything he says about our healthcare?

Posted by: hill_marty | August 8, 2009 8:34 AM

I can only say to President Obama - You need to read the legislation - then maybe you will understand why people don't believe you and are protesting at town hall meetings.
Your glib promises do not jibe with the written words in HR3200. Plain and simple.

Posted by: sandynh | August 8, 2009 8:34 AM

This President with these illegal acts of gathering emails and conversations about information from one citizen about another American citizen has broken the law and he is not upholding the constitution that he was elected to do. (Action contrary to 1974 privacy act)

The news media is no where to be found these days when it comes to reporting facts or informing the public about illegal and unconstitutional acts. This current attempt for erosion of the peoples civil liberties, being performed from the white house against the people of America has not been seen since the Nixon years. All criticism about Obama and his policies are labelled as racist, yet the only racist remarks keep emanating directly from and within the white house.

It is time for criminal charges to be laid in a court of law against Obama and his administration and unelected gang of czars for these unconstitutional acts against the American people. It is also time that Congress and the Senate held hearing on the possible impeachment of this President for such illegal activities sponsored and directed from the white house.

Posted by: peterclarke1 | August 8, 2009 8:16 AM

Obama can whine and cry all he wants. The fact is that the vast majority of Americans do not want his single payer plan. The people I know who do not have insurance do not have it because they do not want to spend the money. They would rather spend it on nice cars, vacations, homes, etc. Why should the rest of us pay for this through higher taxes and rationed care? There is Medicaid for those who are truly unable to get insurance.

Posted by: loudountaxrevolt | August 8, 2009 7:55 AM

Sickandtired67 bemoans those of us who do not go out and obtain health insurance. First question-are you on an employer-sponsored health plan? If so, I hope you never lose your job and then be forced to try to find insurance on your own. If you do, you will find, as I did, that coverage will be $12,000 per year with high deductibles and co-pays. If this is what you think some 50 million people can afford, while insurance companies and their employees rake in the dough, then you are living in a different reality than the one I live in. Are you willing to forego employer-sponsored health insurance and pay for it entirely on your own? Second question- are you or any of your relatives living off the government dole of Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security? If you are, shame on you. You sound like a good conservative who abhors socialist programs. It would seem then that none would be more communistic and socialist than any of these. If you or your family participate, you or your family should immediately remove your names from the appropriate lists and fend for yourselves, as any good conservative would, by belief, desire to do.
Health coverage for all Americans is critical to the well-being and the future of this country. Embrace it for what it is and become part of the solution, rather than an obstructive part of the problem.

Posted by: alrob | August 8, 2009 7:44 AM

Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin called President Barack Obama's health plan "downright evil" on Friday in her first online comments since leaving office.

She said in a Facebook posting that he would create a "death panel" that would deny care to the neediest Americans.


There's your sign. 666. Palin is the most ignorant or plain stupid voice besides Limbaugh that is the leadership of the GOP. WOnderful.

Posted by: swatkins1 | August 8, 2009 7:04 AM

68% of this country has health insurance that they are happy with and will lose it under a single payer system because 32% will not take responsibility to provide it for themselves. I and millions of others in this country are penalized daily for employment through income taxation, penalized for being a home owner through property taxation, penalized for purchasing good and services through sales taxation. Now Obama's crooked treasury leprechaun (Geithner) says that those earning under $250,000 may in fact see a tax increase! Tax reform is needed now before Obama and his democratically controlled congress, that helped Bush create this financial disaster (funny how Obama tends to forget that while he is pointing fingers), bankrupts us all. Those in other countries that have a socialized healthcare system see tax rates at 40% to 60%! For every dollar that you earn, $.40 to $.60 goes to the government! Are people really okay with this?! If our legislators are going to continue spending money that we don't have like teenagers at a mall, tax reform is crucial.

Posted by: Sickandtired67 | August 8, 2009 6:56 AM

why did the dems call in the union thugs to use against their own registered dem voters???
why is obama lying to the American public...
one thing about President Bush is he never cried about being protested, he was man enough to take it...
apparently obama is less of a man...
if his policies have legs they will stand...
if not admit defeat and move on...
seems to me getting America back to work is far more important than anything else you are doing right now...

Posted by: DwightCollins | August 8, 2009 6:45 AM

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