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Cheney, Rove take lead in prebutting Obama Afghanistan speech

By Garance Franke-Ruta
As President Obama prepared to address the nation about his Afghanistan policy, former vice president Richard Cheney and former White House strategist Karl Rove led the Republican charge to shape perceptions of it in separate media appearances that were published and aired Tuesday morning.

Speaking to Mike Allen and Jim Vandehei of Politico, Cheney repeated his oft-stated concern about Obama projecting "weakness" and warned of dire consequences of withdrawing prematurely from Afghanistan.

The average Afghan citizen "sees talk about exit strategies and how soon we can get out, instead of talk about how we win," Cheney told Politico.

"Those folks ... begin to look for ways to accommodate their enemies," Cheney said. "They're worried the United States isn't going to be there much longer and the bad guys are."

Cheney also slammed the president for being too conciliatory towards the world and for disagreeing with the Bush administration policies he promised to overturn once in office.

"Here's a guy without much experience, who campaigned against much of what we put in place ... and who now travels around the world apologizing," Cheney said. "I think our adversaries -- especially when that's preceded by a deep bow ... -- see that as a sign of weakness."

While Obama is looking for an exit-strategy to the now more than eight-year-long Afghan war, the infusion of 30,000 new U.S. troops there represents an intensification of the conflict. The new deployments, along with 22,000 troops Obama authorized early this year, would bring the total U.S. force in Afghanistan to more than 100,000 -- more than half of which will have been sent to the war zone by Obama, Karen DeYoung and Scott Wilson report.

The president also plans to ask NATO and other partners in an international coalition to contribute 5,000 additional troops to Afghanistan, meaning the combined U.S. and NATO deployments would nearly reach the 40,000 requested last summer by U.S. Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal as part of an intensified counterinsurgency strategy, DeYoung and Wilson report.

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Rove, now a Fox News contributor, began an appearance on NBC's "Today" show by saying that Obama's fulfillment of McChrystal's request was a "definitive action -- and if the president does do that I'll be among the first to stand up and applaud."

"If the news reports are correct... He is providing the resources that his commanders said are necessary to execute the strategy, or most of the troops necessary, to execute the strategy that he himself laid out on March 25th," said Rove.

But Rove vigorously contested assertions that the Bush administration took its eye off the ball with the Afghan war to concentrate resources in Iraq, thus allowing for a resurgence of the Taliban and reemergence of al-Qaeda in the tribal areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan -- a critique Obama made frequently while campaigning for office and also since.

That is "revisionism," Rove said. He also disputed the idea that the investment of troops in Iraq left the Afghanistan war without adequate resources.

"President Obama is in no position whatsoever to criticize what President Bush did, because in 2007, President Obama, then a member of the United States Senate, voted against war funding for Iraq and Afghanistan. If this was so vital, then why did he not speak out?" Rove asked. "He was chairman of a committee overseeing NATO. He could have easily called a hearing to say, 'I'm concerned about this.' He did not. The foreign relations committee had three hearings on Afghanistan. He bothered to show up at one, and I can find no evidence he raised a single point or asked a single question. So, president Obama is not in a place to be critical of this.

"He can look back and rewrite history, whatever, but at the time, he did not speak out on this."

By Garance Franke-Ruta  |  December 1, 2009; 2:10 PM ET
Categories:  44 The Obama Presidency  
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Comments

For any serviceman or woman (friends and family) who want to prevent their deployment under an illegal order, the time to challenge is NOW. Don't wait until you get the actual deployment order, or it will be argued by Obama's DOJ that you accepted other "illegal" orders and simply don't want to fight.

http://www.orlytaitzesq.com

Posted by: JakeD | December 2, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Of course Obama voted against funding for Iraq. He was smart enough to see through Cheney and Rove's lies.

They say that the winner gets to write the history, and I'd like to remind Cheney and Rove that we did not win. No one won. Iraq is a failed state, and the Human Rights abuses those two authorized offset any benefit of removing Saddam from power.

Mr. Cheney and Mr. Rove, your legacy is failure, and there's nothing you can do about it.

But this failure in Iraq is largely contained in Iraq, and there won't be a government coherent enough to be a threat to anyone else for decades.

Cheney's failure in Afghanistan is another story. The Taleban were supporters of al Quaida on 9/11, and they are supporters of it today. Ironically, all we had to do to win in Afghanistan is stay out of Iraq, but Cheney, following the road map of the Project for the New American Century, led America to defeat.

The threat that the Taleban poses to America is real, and the threat that an Afghanistan united under the Taleban poses to the nuclear arsenal of it's neighbor, Pakistan, is truly frightening.

Mr. Cheney and Mr. Rove, give it up. Even if you continue to avoid prosecution for your crimes against humanity, remember: God does not have a statute of limitations for Hell.

Posted by: shadocat | December 2, 2009 5:50 AM | Report abuse

So the Puppet Master and Turdblossom, in their infinite wisdom, not only presume to judge the President's decisions, but speak for the Afghani people as well: "Those folks ... begin to look for ways to accommodate their enemies," Cheney said. "They're worried the United States isn't going to be there much longer and the bad guys are." OF COURSE they're worried - they SHOULD be. They cannot possibly (or shouldn't) believe that we're going to be there indefinitely. That's why it's important to give them a date certain to stand up for their own country, and not depend upon us, or anyone else to keep them safe.

Both Rove and Cheney are irrelevent, ancient relics of a bygone age - an era of great shame for our nation. I wish they'd have the decency to just fade away, but like Palin, their egos prevent them from realizing that many of us consider them the scourge of the earth.

Posted by: borntorun45 | December 1, 2009 10:49 PM | Report abuse

Hey boomer131 ... right on! Zero attacks on American soil since ... since ... oh yeah ... the big one that happened on Cheney's watch ...

There is a book out now on "Denialism" and how many people will gladly ignore inconvenient facts and manage to spin everything their way anyway.

You ought to read it some time.

Posted by: ernesthua | December 1, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Have you noticed that, despite all the talk of "winning" from Republicans, there was never a talk of what exactly does that mean?

Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that the war WAS about control of oil and natural gas pipelines, etc ...

What is the success at the end of the 6 1/2 years? Zero. Gas prices at all time highs. Good job. Mission Accomplished.

So, JakeD, is this what you think of when you think of "winning"?

Ok. Ok. Maybe the war was about spreading democracy. Sure! That's the ticket! Spreading democracy.

How's that democracy going in Iraq and Afghanistan? Thumbs up? Iraqis and Aghans celebrating in the streets? Chanting "Long Live America!"?

Mission accomplished yet?

Now, I know you aren't really the thinking type, because it would probably hurt too much to have to consider reality and facts, but the rest of us have to.

Posted by: ernesthua | December 1, 2009 9:41 PM | Report abuse

shadowmagician,

You are trying to discern way too much detail from a quote that has no other purpose than to make you think of ignorant folk and Obama in the same context.

This sort of sloganism was what the Republicans are good at because they have solid messaging strategies and disciplines. As long as they repeat the same short slogans from multiple talking heads on TV, they can please their constituents because feel-good slogans are what the publicity battles are all about.

It is unfortunate that the Democrats have zero discipline in this area, because the Dem's will always be behind the curve on PR.

When the Republicans get apparently offended (like Rove's "revisionism" comment"), they already knew how to respond. Dem's don't stand a chance here because they are ACTUALLY offended and caught off guard, where as the Republicans already knew how to tactically respond to such criticism.

Posted by: ernesthua | December 1, 2009 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld did take their eyes off the ball in Afghanistan. They had Osama and lost him. After they beat the Taliban they "checked out" and focused on their favorite war. I always wonder how much $ they made on the wars during their tenure. Bowing to another leader, per their custom, is not a weakness but respect for their culture. Seems like Cheney's criticisms of Obama are overall pretty weak and he has to dig pretty deep to find stuff to criticize.

Posted by: boleson02 | December 1, 2009 9:14 PM | Report abuse

With no financial interests, Mr. Cheney No Longer supports the American troops.

NOTICE: Cheney and Rove NO LONGER wear an American Flag lapel pin.

Posted by: whocares666 | December 1, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

fraziercam:

Ronald Reagan "finished" the Cold War, don't forget that.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Rove and Cheney. Professionals at second-guessing.

Now's the time for them to do their duty--since neither one of them did when they were eligible-and just. . .go away.

Republicans are good at starting wars. Thing is, they never get around to finishing them.

Posted by: fraziercam | December 1, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

Cheney and Rove, I always know when their lips are moving, they are lying. They have no credibility with me.

Posted by: fabricmaven1 | December 1, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

catmomtx:

Yes, I believed GWB. No, I will not get used to a USURPER pResident.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Can you believe Cheney's criticizing Obama's experience? With all Cheney's experience, he's still the biggest moron on the planet. Look what these Bozos did in Iraq. They wouldn't listen to Shinseki about the troop levels needed. They wouldn't listen to any of the reports on how to keep order in the city, and as a result all of Iraq's ancient artifacts and treasures were stolen. (Securing the the oil fields were more important.) Then after they dissolved the 350,000-man Iraqi army - they aided the insurgency because their families were starving. The last thing Obama needs is a Rove - Cheney Cowboy War Strategy. These Bird-Brains have done enough.

Posted by: HemiHead66 | December 1, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

We ALL remember that America was indeed UNITED back on 9/11 when the last legal PRESIDENT was in office. Obama, YOU are not my PRESIDENT, and I will never "unite" behind you.

I don't believe in fairy tales.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 8:14 PM | Report abuse

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

But yet you believed in the President who left Afghanistan to start a war of choice in Iraq based on lies? Are you serious??? You believed in the administration that sent our military to war without adequate equipment to defend themselves? You believe in the President who fired the person who tried to tell them they didn't have enough troops to fight the war properly? You believe in the person who played dress up, turned an aircraft carrier around just so he could pose under a sign proclaiming Mission Accomplished while our military continued to be killed and maimed? You believed in the President and administration that condoned torture? One who did not finish either war he started, who did not pay for either, who sent troops, entire families to the battlefield 2,3,4 times. Then you have the nerve to disparage the person whose task it is to fix the mess that person you believed in left? Boy, you are either stupid, misguided,blinded by the right or confused or perhaps all of them. Guess what, hate to break it to you but whether you like it or not Barack Hussein Obama IS YOUR duly ELECTED President not appointed and will be for at least the next three plus years. Better get use to it.

Posted by: catmomtx | December 1, 2009 9:00 PM | Report abuse

didn't cheney and rove criticize people who questioned bush's war on terror as encouraging terrorists by not presenting a united front in america? i believe their other non serving buddy in florida also said this while describing an american hero as not a real republican. from him and his non serving ilk that was, of course, a compliment. you betcha. semper phi from khe sanh while newt and cheney were too busy to serve.

Posted by: george32 | December 1, 2009 8:59 PM | Report abuse

disrupt, dismantle, defeat al-qaeda

obama promised.a vital national interest, he said, the terrorists have planned attacks on usa.

but see obama does not understand, any vital national interest demands VICTORY- not just 18 months, whichever comes first

the tension in the speech was overpowering. the silence due to the lack of applause from the regimented cadets, combined with their startling youth, and the deadly seriousness of the war was almost unendurable.

you looked at the cadets and saw not them but your kids and grandkids.

and you prayed obama would just not foul up....

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Where were these two F idiots when the Texas Moron, all souped up, was sending troops to Iraq instaed of Afghanistan where the Talibans were?
These pathetic clowns screwed up everything they did and touched and now, they have the solution.
Why didn't these two s.o.bs finish what they start? BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS NEEDED.

Posted by: analyst72 | December 1, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

IMPEACH TODAY! IMPEACH NOW! DO NOT WAIT ANOTHER SINGLE MINUTE! Flush Washington now and hope that Obama, Pelosi and Reid won't clog the tolet!

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 8:45 PM | Report abuse

Gee thanks, Karl. If only you'd managed to get a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, Afghanistan wouldn't be a problem. I puke you you, pea brain.

Posted by: Brittman1 | December 1, 2009 8:45 PM | Report abuse

The irony is painful. Cheney says, "Here's a guy without much experience, who campaigned against much of what we put in place ... and who now travels around the world apologizing..."

Right. Cheney had tons of "experience," and yet will not acknowledge any role in the disastrous mess we're in despite eight years of his sterling wisdom, talents, and leadership.

I know who I'd like an apology from, not that I expect to ever see it from one of these "let's take responsiblity for our actions" Republicans.

What a complete fraud. Fortunately, about six people the world think he's relevant, and one of them is his apologist shill of a daughter.

Posted by: BlueDog1 | December 1, 2009 8:30 PM | Report abuse

These two are in absolutely no position whatsoever to criticize President Obama. If Cheney, Bush and their henchmen, such as Rove, had not dropped the ball in Afghanistan by going into Iraq seeking their phantom WMDs – the war in Afghanistan would most likely be winding down and bin Laden would have been brought to justice—either by being captured or by being killed.

But no, because of the Bush/Cheney ill-conceived obsession with Iraq, we were distracted from the task at hand in Afghanistan. Now, 6 plus years later, millions of lives have been lost – American, NATO, Afghani, Iraqi, and Pakistani – and almost a trillion dollars have been squandered.

What a legacy Bush/Cheney have left us.

It’s time for those two and their henchmen, such as Karl Rove, to ride off into the sunset and do no further harm to our country -- 8 years of their destruction are enough. These men should hang their heads in shame, they certainly should not be given air time or newsprint.

Posted by: laSerenissima2003 | December 1, 2009 8:27 PM | Report abuse

jake, "last legal president"? You mean the one who lost by 500,000 votes to Al Gore? The one the SC put into office by overturning Florida election law? You mean that "legal president?" You are a fraud.

Posted by: mikel7 | December 1, 2009 8:24 PM | Report abuse

More garbage by two of the biggest liars in political history. Rove is right, though, when he says the bushies didn't take their eye off Afghanistan. It was never on it to start. Just an excuse to look like we were going after bin laden when all the time cheny and co. werecooking up the Iraq war. All the info coming out in England these days shows that bush and cheny had plans to go into Iraq just weeks after he took office, well before 9-11. The Senate committee this week showed where we could have captured bin laden, but the troops got sent to Iraq. Then bush said that he didn't even think about bin laden. The man responsible for killing 3,000 Americans on his watch and the president doesn't think about him. After all this, anyone who still believes bush was forced into a war with saddam is a total moron.

Posted by: mikel7 | December 1, 2009 8:20 PM | Report abuse

Back on topic:

"It is easy to forget that when this war began, we were united - bound together by the fresh memory of a horrific attack, and by the determination to defend our homeland and the values we hold dear. I refuse to accept the notion that we cannot summon that unity again. I believe with every fiber of my being that we - as Americans - can still come together behind a common purpose."

We ALL remember that America was indeed UNITED back on 9/11 when the last legal PRESIDENT was in office. Obama, YOU are not my PRESIDENT, and I will never "unite" behind you.

I don't believe in fairy tales.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Cheney and Rove are criminals and should both be in prison.

Posted by: jryan758 | December 1, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse

John McCain's reaction today:

"Certainly, I support the [additional 30,000 troops,] but I am very concerned about whether there is a date certain for withdrawal. Success is what causes us to withdraw. You don't want to tell the enemy you're coming and you're leaving."

Of course, Obama doesn't know that (yet).

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 7:59 PM | Report abuse

how do you announce a failed policy in afghanistan??

easy--just announce publicly a withdrawal date to please the looney left

BEFORE

you send in troops

tonight obama will say:

“Taken together, these additional American and international troops will allow us to accelerate handing over responsibility to Afghan forces, and allow us to begin the transfer of our forces out of Afghanistan in July of 2011.”

obama--failed policy-failed leadership

our troops only hope is G-d and their military commanders as obama is clueless

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 7:58 PM | Report abuse

They didn't "ignore". Bush specifically said "Fine, now you're covered."

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

No, Bush stayed there with "My Pet Goat" for eight minutes. Get your stories straight.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 7:55 PM | Report abuse

"did he feel it was easier to leave terrorism and the fight against terrorism to the next Administration, thus saving his ego and poll numbers?"

So why did cheney and bush ignore their presidential daily briefings?

Oh yeah, because they needed a reason to invade Iraq for oil. It's all about oil and oil pipelines.

Posted by: knjincvc | December 1, 2009 7:54 PM | Report abuse

when obama promises a definite withdrawal date tonight of July 2011

does president pelosi get to keep the white flag from Obama???

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

"Cheney was the one who gave the order to shoot down any additional hijacked planes, if needed (because Bush was being evacuated)."

bush turned tail and ran.

Posted by: knjincvc | December 1, 2009 7:49 PM | Report abuse

knjincvc:

Did Bill Clinton explain why THREE TIMES in his eight years, the Sudanese government offered bin Laden to us, yet each time he cowardly refused him. Was it because he knew that having bin Laden in the U.S. courts would cause an uproar in the Muslim community, and thus his ego and poll numbers would be negatively impacted, or did he feel it was easier to leave terrorism and the fight against terrorism to the next Administration, thus saving his ego and poll numbers?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse

surrender quotes that were NEVER uttered

“Taken together, these additional American and international troops will allow us to accelerate handing over responsibility to French forces, and allow us to begin the transfer of our forces out of Germany in July of 1944.” --

President Franklin Roosevelt, promising a definite troop withdrawal date from Nazi Germany in WW2 regardless of the combat reality.

failed policy quotes that WERE uttered:

“Taken together, these additional American and international troops will allow us to accelerate handing over responsibility to Afghan forces, and allow us to begin the transfer of our forces out of Afghanistan in July of 2011.”

obama, westpoint december 1, 2009--

obama--failed policy-failed leadership

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse

Did cheney explain why he and rumsfeld surrendered Afghanistan and let OBL escape in Tora Bora?
Until he does, his comments don't mean spit.

Posted by: knjincvc | December 1, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

rodneythecat:

Even a broken clock is right twice a day (three times on daylight savings ; )

That's why "ad hominem" attacks are logical fallacies. How about you just deal with the substance of the argument instead?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

bfjam:

Cheney was the one who gave the order to shoot down any additional hijacked planes, if needed (because Bush was being evacuated). Where were YOU on 9/11?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50745-2004Jun17.html

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

So two proven traitors, "Five Deferments" Cheney and "Benedict Arnold" Rove, who "outed" an active CIA agent working on Iranian WMDs are giving the Republican rebuttal? Very fitting.

Posted by: rodneythecat | December 1, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Given that Cheney and Rove presided over close to a decade of disastrous domestic and foreign policy decisions, political acrimony, and the running up of the national credit card, the fact that they are commenting on a speech that has not even been given yet would be laughable if it were not so tragic.

Posted by: AnotherHagman | December 1, 2009 7:39 PM | Report abuse

If Cheney farted, then JakeD would fully back it up by posting his "fully certifiable" comment board credentials. Can we have your sS# to verify - with your faxed arse smudge as a signature?

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 7:37 PM | Report abuse

jakeD You always back the loser ideas - i guess you may have been a public defender then? - or a poor prosecutor, like when you slobbered all over yourself to get Letterman fired. You must Like being a loser?

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Where was Cheney on 9/11? He was caught with his pants down and his negligence in this area has consumed him since. I really think he's lost his mind, deluded himself that he's right much like other failures in history did. Rove simply has no credibility in the matter and is trying to earn a buck and try to artificially boost his credibility where none exists. Each time these guys speak Obama seems more right and adds votes to his reelection. The GOP is making it too easy.

Posted by: bfjam | December 1, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

ProCounsel:

Thank you!

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

JakeD

don't let the hyenas get you down

probably just one nerd at the dnc with 50 screen names

ignore the chatter

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

JoeNTx:

Please don't presume to speak on behalf of the MILLIONS of us Americans who support Cheney on this issue.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

JakeD,
The more we all debate and disagree one day we all will hopefully find a middle ground to agree upon and end this division of the American People.

I have to sign off, but you have a good evening.

Posted by: garage | December 1, 2009 7:22 PM | Report abuse

how do you spell failed policy???

easy--just commit to a troop withdrawal date before you send in troops.....

tonight obama will drool:

"“Taken together, these additional American and international troops will allow us to accelerate handing over responsibility to Afghan forces, and allow us to begin the transfer of our forces out of Afghanistan in July of 2011.”

obama-- failed policy, failed leadership

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse

If Cheney farted, then JakeD would fully back it up by posting his "fully certifiable" comment board credentials. Can we have your sS# to verify - with your faxed arse smudge as a signature?

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

The rest of you slamming Cheney / Rove:

If OBAMA does not end this war by then, will you vote for him in 2012?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 7:17 PM | Report abuse

America to Chaney; please have another heart attack and die this time. Really!

Posted by: JoeNTx | December 1, 2009 7:16 PM | Report abuse

garage:

You didn't fool me.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 7:15 PM | Report abuse

bluelagoon21:

I already agreed that Obama is weak. That's Cheney's whole point.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JakeD
garage:
Did you graduate at the top of your class from Stanford Law School?

No, I guess my use of two syllable words fooled you, huh? I'm just a 60 year old, life long Liberal, a Vet, go to Church every Sunday, a lover of the 2nd Amendment and hoping for a resurgence of a Militant Left.

Not all the Left are tree huggers JakeD.

Posted by: garage | December 1, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

I AGREE, OBAMA IS WEAK BUT FOR NOT PROSECUTING CHENEY AND ROVE FOR THEIR CRIMES. THESE TWO BASTTARDS HATE AMERICA, THEIR ONLY MOTIVATION IS GREED AND HATE.

Posted by: bluelagoon21 | December 1, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

binkynh:

No, I was answering your question -- I don't think either of them deserve to be punished -- assuming you can get past the Secret Service (like Real Housewives seem to be able to) you are free to try whatever you like.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 7:05 PM | Report abuse

JakeD wrote...

binkynh:

Tar and feathering was abolished by LIBERAL activists courts as cruel and unusual punishment. Next question?

..................

So what you're saying is you're upset because "liberals'" made it impossible to tar and feather rove and cheney?

Posted by: binkynh | December 1, 2009 7:00 PM | Report abuse

garage:

Did you graduate at the top of your class from Stanford Law School?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

For all those who responded here with basically Cheney abuse, first, you don't know better, second, only God knows the motives of a person and all you who judge what Cheney's true motives are guilty of judging another person and are accountable for that to God. You also will be judged someday by the same measure you judge.

Disagreement is acceptable but judging one's character and motives is quite another and that is what a lot of you are doing. Shame on you!

Posted by: AnotherContrarian | December 1, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

1. Afghanistan is a battle for LITHIUM. Stay tuned for Vietnam II. Just another Drug War using other people's children, our own.
2. Afghanistan is a business solution problem yet to be solved.....

Antonio the Sun

Posted by: sterlinggo1 | December 1, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

shadowmagician:

If Obama does not end this war, will you vote for him in 2012?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Hey JakeD,
How the hell stupid are you. Let me explain what the message was:
IF BUSH & CREW HAD DONE A GOOD JOB - THEN MOST PEOPLE WOULD HAVE LIKED THE RESULTS OF THE GOP ADMINISTRATION AND VOTED FOR THE ENEMY COLLABORATOR McCAIN. NOW WRITE THIS OUT ON A BIG PIECE OF YELLOW CONSTRUCTION PAPER WITH YOUR RED CRAYON, ASK MOM AND DAD TO HELP YOU WITH THE PHONETICS, AND MAYBE IT WILL SINK IN.

And for those of you who tried to explain this to JakeD, thanks. Its not his fault blame it on the consequences of the GOP not completely funding 'The Leaving No Child Behind Act'.

Posted by: garage | December 1, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

binkynh:

Tar and feathering was abolished by LIBERAL activists courts as cruel and unusual punishment. Next question?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

theRealCalGal:

I would love to answer your later-asked questions to me, just as soon as you answer the pending question I asked you "So, what's Obama's excuse for not winning Afghanistan then? Sooner or later, you are going to have to admit (just like Michael Moore did) that this is OBAMA's WAR."

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:54 PM | Report abuse

cheney and rove.

What a disgusting pair of liars.

Whatever happened to tar and feathering, anyway?

Posted by: binkynh | December 1, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

In a twist of irony, tonight's announcement to send another 30,000 U.S. combat troops into Afghanistan comes nine days before Obama travels to Oslo, Norway, to accept the Nobel Peace Prize.

LOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:52 PM | Report abuse

Cheney and Rove 2012? hmmm Sad really - that's all.

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

"As for George Bush not serving during the Vietnam war, you are wrong; TANG units were, in fact, flying combat missions over both Korea and Vietnam."

So the fact that some TANG units flew combat missions over Viet Nam gives GWB credit for "Viet Nam service"?

Is jaked the stupidist mutterfrugger on the planet, or does he come in second to Doug Feith?

Posted by: theRealCalGal | December 1, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

"The average Afghan citizen 'sees talk about exit strategies and how soon we can get out, instead of talk about how we win,' Cheney told Politico..."
------------------------------
What concrete tangible thing are we even trying to achieve at this point? And for whom? The Afghans whom we are apparently fighting for seem to be an unpopular, undemocratic, corrupt regime akin to the South Vietnamese government in the Vietnam War. What does Mr. Cheney mean by "winning"?

"Hawks" like Cheney and Rove were talking like that in Viet Nam days. The problem is, nation building takes generations and limitless amounts of money. We have neither. We have to find a smarter, leaner way to fight terrorism, and we would if there were not so many vested interests in keeping the present method going.

I am a big fan of the President but fear he has been had by the military-industrial complex and their abettors and enablers all around Washington

Posted by: shadowmagician | December 1, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

i've only got two words for cheney and rove - and they're not 'happy birthday'.

Posted by: dibick99 | December 1, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

i've only got two words for cheney and rove - and they're not 'happy birthday'.

Posted by: dibick99 | December 1, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

"Dear President Obama,

Do you really want to be the new "war president"? If you go to West Point tomorrow night (Tuesday, 8pm) and announce that you are increasing, rather than withdrawing, the troops in Afghanistan, you are the new war president. Pure and simple. And with that you will do the worst possible thing you could do -- destroy the hopes and dreams so many millions have placed in you. With just one speech tomorrow night you will turn a multitude of young people who were the backbone of your campaign into disillusioned cynics. You will teach them what they've always heard is true -- that all politicians are alike. I simply can't believe you're about to do what they say you are going to do. Please say it isn't so.

It is not your job to do what the generals tell you to do. We are a civilian-run government. WE tell the Joint Chiefs what to do, not the other way around. That's the way General Washington insisted it must be. That's what President Truman told General MacArthur when MacArthur wanted to invade China. "You're fired!," said Truman, and that was that. And you should have fired Gen. McChrystal when he went to the press to preempt you, telling the press what YOU had to do. Let me be blunt: We love our kids in the armed services, but we f*#&in' hate these generals, from Westmoreland in Vietnam to, yes, even Colin Powell for lying to the UN with his made-up drawings of WMD (he has since sought redemption).

So now you feel backed into a corner. 30 years ago this past Thursday (Thanksgiving) the Soviet generals had a cool idea -- "Let's invade Afghanistan!" Well, that turned out to be the final nail in the USSR coffin.

There's a reason they don't call Afghanistan the "Garden State" (though they probably should, seeing how the corrupt President Karzai, whom we back, has his brother in the heroin trade raising poppies). Afghanistan's nickname is the "Graveyard of Empires." If you don't believe it, give the British a call. I'd have you call Genghis Khan but I lost his number. I do have Gorbachev's number though. It's + 41 22 789 1662. I'm sure he could give you an earful about the historic blunder you're about to commit.

With our economic collapse still in full swing and our precious young men and women being sacrificed on the altar of arrogance and greed, the breakdown of this great civilization we call America will head, full throttle, into oblivion if you become the "war president." Empires never think the end is near, until the end is here. Empires think that more evil will force the heathens to toe the line -- and yet it never works. The heathens usually tear them to shreds."

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:49 PM | Report abuse

(cont.)

"Choose carefully, President Obama. You of all people know that it doesn't have to be this way. You still have a few hours to listen to your heart, and your own clear thinking. You know that nothing good can come from sending more troops halfway around the world to a place neither you nor they understand, to achieve an objective that neither you nor they understand, in a country that does not want us there. You can feel it in your bones.

I know you know that there are LESS than a hundred al-Qaeda left in Afghanistan! A hundred thousand troops trying to crush a hundred guys living in caves? Are you serious? Have you drunk Bush's Kool-Aid? I refuse to believe it.

Your potential decision to expand the war (while saying that you're doing it so you can "end the war") will do more to set your legacy in stone than any of the great things you've said and done in your first year. One more throwing a bone from you to the Republicans and the coalition of the hopeful and the hopeless may be gone -- and this nation will be back in the hands of the haters quicker than you can shout "tea bag!"

Choose carefully, Mr. President. Your corporate backers are going to abandon you as soon as it is clear you are a one-term president and that the nation will be safely back in the hands of the usual idiots who do their bidding. That could be Wednesday morning.

We the people still love you. We the people still have a sliver of hope. But we the people can't take it anymore. We can't take your caving in, over and over, when we elected you by a big, wide margin of millions to get in there and get the job done. What part of "landslide victory" don't you understand?

Don't be deceived into thinking that sending a few more troops into Afghanistan will make a difference, or earn you the respect of the haters. They will not stop until this country is torn asunder and every last dollar is extracted from the poor and soon-to-be poor. You could send a million troops over there and the crazy Right still wouldn't be happy. You would still be the victim of their incessant venom on hate radio and television because no matter what you do, you can't change the one thing about yourself that sends them over the edge.

The haters were not the ones who elected you, and they can't be won over by abandoning the rest of us."

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:49 PM | Report abuse

(cont.)

"President Obama, it's time to come home. Ask your neighbors in Chicago and the parents of the young men and women doing the fighting and dying if they want more billions and more troops sent to Afghanistan. Do you think they will say, "No, we don't need health care, we don't need jobs, we don't need homes. You go on ahead, Mr. President, and send our wealth and our sons and daughters overseas, 'cause we don't need them, either."

What would Martin Luther King, Jr. do? What would your grandmother do? Not send more poor people to kill other poor people who pose no threat to them, that's what they'd do. Not spend billions and trillions to wage war while American children are sleeping on the streets and standing in bread lines.

All of us that voted and prayed for you and cried the night of your victory have endured an Orwellian hell of eight years of crimes committed in our name: torture, rendition, suspension of the bill of rights, invading nations who had not attacked us, blowing up neighborhoods that Saddam "might" be in (but never was), slaughtering wedding parties in Afghanistan. We watched as hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians were slaughtered and tens of thousands of our brave young men and women were killed, maimed, or endured mental anguish -- the full terror of which we scarcely know.

When we elected you we didn't expect miracles. We didn't even expect much change. But we expected some. We thought you would stop the madness. Stop the killing. Stop the insane idea that men with guns can reorganize a nation that doesn't even function as a nation and never, ever has.

Stop, stop, stop! For the sake of the lives of young Americans and Afghan civilians, stop. For the sake of your presidency, hope, and the future of our nation, stop. For God's sake, stop.

Tonight we still have hope.

Tomorrow, we shall see. The ball is in your court. You DON'T have to do this. You can be a profile in courage. You can be your mother's son.

We're counting on you.

Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com

P.S. There's still time to have your voice heard. Call the White House at 202-456-1111 or email the President"

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

How the H-E-double-hockey-sticks does Dick Cheney know what the "average" Afghani thinks?

I doubt they get ANY information about American policy at all from their government. It's not like there is a vigorous free press in Afghanistan. Only about 10% of Afghanis are literate.

This is a tribal country, with no history at all of central government. The hubris of Bush II officials thinking that "everyone wants what we want, why wouldn't they?" (Don Rumsfeld) or that we'd be welcomed with open arms and showered with flowers in Iraq is STILL absolutely astounding.

Their misunderstanding of Islamic thinking, Persian thinking, tribal thinking, etc. led them to be the worst frigging administration in history, starting two wars they couldn't finish, with one of the started under demonstrably false pretenses.

What gives them ANY right to spout off in national media?

WAKE UP MSM!

Posted by: theRealCalGal | December 1, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Fisrt, Cheney is a 5-time DRAFT DODGER form the Viet Nam era. Five times he wrote to be EXEMPT from the draft. He wasn't a 4-F at that time. Even after college he didn't serve in the reserves of guard!! So mich for being a PATRIOT. Let somebody else do the hard work. He's too good for the hard work.

Rove is of the same cut of cloth except he isn't old enough to be drafted. But did he serve in the reserves or guard? I don't think so.

But both were brave enough to send somebody elses son,daughter,father,mother,aunt,uncle to be killed,wounded or maimed by loosing a leg or both legs. These guys have all kinds of courage when it's somebody other than themselves!!!

Posted by: doughboy96 | December 1, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Why is it only the "goal" to start withdrawing U.S. troops in July of 2011?! McCain would have done it quicker than that. Is this what you Obamaniacs voted for?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Why did Cheney give the order to let Osama Bin Laden escape?
How many Americans died because Cheney deliberately let Osama Bin Laden off the hook?

Posted by: TOMHERE | December 1, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Vice President . Please go back to the hole where you came from. You guys destroyed this country. Thanks but no thanks. Please keep your thoughts to yourself.

Posted by: VoterfromIL | December 1, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

P.S. to citysoilverizonnet: Gen. McChrystal is the OLD guy over there at age 55.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

vintel7 and theRealCalGal:

So, what's Obama's excuse for not winning Afghanistan then? Sooner or later, you are going to have to admit (just like Michael Moore did) that this is OBAMA's WAR.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Both Rove and Cheney are irrelevant so who cares? Cheney is still polling 18% with the American people. In his sinister narcissistic little mind he thinks it necessary to remind us of how great of a job he and Bush and Rove did when running this country into the ground. Bush, Cheney, and Rove spend 1 trillion taxpayer dollars on 2 meaningless wars that have cost 4800 American lives, 35,000 wounded and crippled Americans, and 178,000 dead Iraqis. So yes, Cheney has this blood on his hands and is no better than a criminal. Republicans in general love war and are all too eager to send Americans into harm's way. Most if not all of these republicans never served a day in their lives. They love to start stupid wars that they later neglect like Afghanistan and Iraq. In fact, name me one constructive thing that republicans, Bush, Cheney, and Rove did between 2000-2008.There is nothing.

Posted by: vintel7 | December 1, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

These two men are traitors who outed a CIA agent who was working on our national security programs against weapons of mass destruction.

Any media outlet that gives them a platform to spout the traitor nonsense is anti-American.

That said, if I were asked to name to people to rebut me in ANYTHING I said, they'd be at the top of my list, with zero credibility between them.

If they knew how to win in Afghanistan, they why didn't they, huh?

Posted by: theRealCalGal | December 1, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Cheney's beginning to sound as uninformed and petulant as the right-wing shills who spend their days complaining about Obama in the Post's comments sections.

Posted by: j2hess | December 1, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

pmc123 (I am not the one who failed to understand what was being said):

"Karl we the people criticized and rejected the failings of President Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and you did - That's why its [SIC] President Obama, not President McCain making this decision."

Posted by: garage | December 1, 2009 6:05 PM

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

citysoilverizonnet:

How many other 63, 68, and 58-year olds are serving on active combat duty? What a silly suggestion. Are you even an American citizen.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:33 PM | Report abuse

bush was president jakeD - but his credential aren't worth the typing calories spent posting them...get it?

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 6:33 PM | Report abuse

"McCain was NOT an incumbent President -- we now return you to the Twilight Zone you seem to live in"

Ummmm... yes Jake you obviously do not understand what he said (on drugs are we?). It would of been President McCain but the people decided against it... duh.

Posted by: pmc123 | December 1, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Who is the "cyber punk" now?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

ryan_heart:

Too bad I was able to VERIFY my credentials ...

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:28 PM | Report abuse

Melanie Sloan, of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, which represents the Wilsons, "said the group will request the full D.C. Circuit to review the case and appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court." That failed as well. Agreeing with the Bush Administration, the Obama Justice Department argued that the Wilsons had no legitimate grounds to sue. On the current DOJ position, Sloan, stated: "We are deeply disappointed that the Obama Administration has failed to recognize the grievous harm top Bush White House officials inflicted on Joe and Valerie Wilson. The government’s position cannot be reconciled with President Obama’s oft-stated commitment to once again make government officials accountable for their actions."

LOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

ryan_heart:

After the Korean war, I came back to California, started a family, and finally went back to school, graduating from Stanford.

http://members.calbar.ca.gov/search/member_detail.aspx?x=32123

Again, what have YOU done in this life, son?
===============
I don't waste time overly promoting my unverifiable credentials via a comment board like a cyber punk ignoramus - that says enough about me.

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

In my opinion, to start with Obama should ask Bush; Cheney; Rove and their goons to enroll for the Afghanistan War and send them to Knaddhar to show their heroism and get purple or gold medals.

Posted by: citysoilverizonnet | December 1, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

deborahzaki:

If Obama does not end this war, will you vote for him in 2012? BTW: Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame's lawsuit against Dick Cheney was thrown out of court.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Why has CHENEY AND BUSH NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH WAR CRIMES UP TO THIS TIME?

Cheney is arogant like Hitler.
He created a war under false pretenses that left thousands upon thousands of
widows, orphans, and dead in Iran.

Thank you Joe Wilson for talking about this following your wife Valorie's outing by these non American war criminals!

FALSE WARS STARTED BY THE BUSH/CHENEY ADMINISTRATION THAT MUST BE ENDED.

PRESIDENT OBAMA END THESE SENSELESS WARS OVER FALSE PRETENSES.

SEND CHENEY AND BUSH TO THE WORLD COURT!

Posted by: deborahzaki | December 1, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

every time cheney and rove speak - i think to myself - they must be the real gop leadership? and That is just sad.

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Like Bush (Iraq war), Obama is making the biggest mistake of his career in advancing un-winnable, immoral, illogic and above all deadliest Afghanistan WAR against Talibans. He and his advisors must read the 200-years old history of Afghanistan and take a lesson from the several defeats of the world powers and Emperors. Afghanistan is 10 time worst than Iraq and their war lords and warriors are 100 times more superior to Iraqis. Also, Americans and American military men are now tired of continuous 8+ years of war and do not want any long war economy and war mongering shows on their T.V. and news media.

However, Obama is one way right that he does not want to be a coward President, who had accepted defeat and retuned with shame. Still, he has a chance to achieve that goal of winning the war but he should be ready to standup for the real American values by showing his ability to control the most powerful goon to whom he is nurturing against his own will and that is the Zionist Lobby.

Not resolving Palestine issue amicably, Obama or any other President cannot win the heart and mind of militant Muslims or Muslim masses around the Globe but that will provide nourishment to the young Muslims in deciding to get enroll to fight against America and the Western World. Iran and his nuke problem will also never be resolved unless America stands up for the oppressed Palestinians taking concrete steps against Israel. In reality, Muslim masses have been convinced that America is anti-Islam and pro-Zionists and Zionists and their lobbies are running America. Lately they have been more assured of the Western’s anti-Islam mind watching daily fatwas against Islam in France-Sweden-Switzerland and other Nations.

To resolve not all but several issues including Bin Laden, Al-Qaida and several Jihadis outfits, America has to take a deep breath and think seriously what is the best for America? Only to keep immoral, un-lawful and inhumane relationship with Israel and her interest or to stand up and advocate just, fair, balanced America’s foreign policy starting with meaningful resolution of the Palestine issue. After resolving the Palestine issue, America will be able to form an International Coalition of almost all the world Nations; making a large multi-million army to encircled Talibans, Al-qaida and all other terrorists’ organizations offering them just and fair peace resolution or eliminate them for ever using all means; yes all means. In that case Muslim masses will be with America and they will be glad to declare JIHAD against their own disgruntled brothers, who have hi-jacked Islam for their own flimsy doctrine.

John Pitasy

Posted by: citysoilverizonnet | December 1, 2009 6:15 PM | Report abuse

I AGREE, OBAMA IS WEAK BUT FOR NOT PROSECUTING CHENEY AND ROVE FOR THEIR CRIMES. THESE TWO BASTTARDS HATE AMERICA, THEIR ONLY MOTIVATION IS GREED AND HATE.

Posted by: bluelagoon21 | December 1, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

garage:

For the record, Bush-Cheney WON both times they ran -- McCain was NOT an incumbent President -- we now return you to the Twilight Zone you seem to live in.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

"President Obama is in no position whatsoever to criticize what President Bush did".

Karl we the people criticized and rejected the failings of President Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and you did - That's why its President Obama, not President McCain making this decision.

You guys had 7 years to get the job done and Obama has to mop up your failings. And will somebody get Cheney to shut up, his opinions are of no importance. The only time I want to see his name in print is when he gets that long over do fatal heart attack.

Posted by: garage | December 1, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

At least we can agree that Obama is weak.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

I AGREE, OBAMA IS WEAK BUT FOR PUTTING CHENEY AND ROVE IN JAIL. THESE TWO BASTTARDS HATE AMERICA THEIR ONLY MOTIVATION IS IS GREED AND HATE.

Posted by: bluelagoon21 | December 1, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

I AM SO SICK OF HEARING CHENEY AND ROVE MOUTHS. THEY ARE TWO PEOPLE WHO WANT THEIR CAKE AND EAT IT TO YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. CHENEY BOTH YOU AND BUSH LIED ABOUT THE WEAPOSNS OF MASS DISTRUCTION IN IRAQ. SO GUESS WHAT IF BOTH DID NOT HAVE YOUR GREEDED FAT HANDS SO DEEP IN BIN'S POCKETS MAYBE JUST MAYBE OBAMA WOULD NOT HAVE TO STAND BEFORE THE NATION TONIGHT AND ASK AMERICAN TO SUPPORT HIM IN SENDING MORE TROOPS OVER TO AFGHANISTAN. SEE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN GREEDED PEOPLE STICK THEIR BIG FAT HANDS IN SOMEONES POCKETS AND LET THE PERSON YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BRING DOWN GET AWAY WITH MURDER. SO BEFORE YOU START CRITIZING SOMEONE ELSE FOR WHAT THEY ARE DOING YOU NEED TO CHECK YOURSELF, BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY IN HE!!THAT YOUR HANDS ARE CLEAN YOU STARTED ALL OF THIS AND IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT OBAMA HAS TO CLEAN ON BUSH AND YOUR MESS. ROVE AND YOU ARE NASTY OLD MEN THAT BOTH NEED TO GET A LIFE.

Posted by: dbarnes1 | December 1, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

cheney and rove = human stem cells harvested from humpty dumpty's butt cheeks.

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

ryan_heart:

After the Korean war, I came back to California, started a family, and finally went back to school, graduating from Stanford.

http://members.calbar.ca.gov/search/member_detail.aspx?x=32123

Again, what have YOU done in this life, son?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

So, Goebbels and Shooter want to preempt President Obama's speech?

Who cares what they say? They had their chance and they screwed it up. Ignore them already.

Posted by: Heerman532 | December 1, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

th12:

Unlike "llevario2" I was not claiming that military service was a prerequisite to being a great leader. Please read that post again. As for George Bush not serving during the Vietnam war, you are wrong; TANG units were, in fact, flying combat missions over both Korea and Vietnam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lee_%22Tex%22_Hill#Service_History

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

obamababble--

the afghan nonsurge surge

see??--obama will take 40 miuntes to drool that out

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

obamababble--

the afghan nonsurge surge

see??--obama will take 40 miuntes to drool that out

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Since Cheney and Rove did such a bang up job I am guessing they will let us all in on where they are hiding Bin Laden. Two more bumbling fools could not be found to defend the Bush administration eight wasted years.

Posted by: merrylees | December 1, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Pathetic...

Posted by: corbinb | December 1, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

jakeD is a cyber punk - who previously has "promoted" his maturity as an illustrious retired lawyer; which any judge (real or cyber) would have immediately found in contempt of court for his immature e-punky talk.

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Cheney & Rove had their chance and THEY BLEW IT! The "leadership" that they exhibited has led us into the ongoing problems that we face in Iraq, Afganistan, the economy etc. You led our country to a path of ruin. Thanks for your contributions, you bunch of losers.

Posted by: tc_texas | December 1, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

"then compare with speeches of ww2 leaders--good and evil"

This is very amusing looking back at the Bush administration and seeing all the staging done at almost every event. So much so that they kept protesters in "free speech zones" and made sure any questions posed were scripted. Not to mention the fact that the answer never actually answered the question.

Posted by: pmc123 | December 1, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

This is what happened while Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were "dithering"
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/29/bin.laden.2001/?iref=polticker

Posted by: JRM2 | December 1, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

The only thing that Bozo the Clown Cheney cares about is his Halliburton stock. He's lovin every minute of this. Those 30 thousand troops will keep those profits flying in.

Posted by: HemiHead66 | December 1, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Rove and Cheney actually want to counter Obama on Afghanistan?

The people who lead this country into the Iraq quagmire?

Right.

Posted by: kogejoe | December 1, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

F U, htruman.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse


------------------------------------------

Oh Fake, that hurts (because I respect you so much) and is a really shocking statement given that you claim to be a Christian.

Wow, who'd a thought it!?? Fake's a potty mouth and a draft dodger.

Posted by: htruman | December 1, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

staging the bodies--

a psychological profile of obama
criminal psychologists can construct extremely accurate profiles of psychopaths by the way they stage the bodies after a murder,
or the method live photos are posed.

similarly, the way a government leader poses photos of himself is profilable.
for example, study evil leaders in ww2 photos and note how masses of troops were used by a leader as merely an
anonmyous obedient mass, not
individiuals, a back drop.

the evil leader was always depicted

alone

separate.

tonight analyze obama speech differently-try this

focus soley on how obama stages the bodies
the lighting
the bodies staged as a mass
the politcally correct mix of diverse ethnic groups

then read,
and only read
the text of what obama says
then watch the speech later with the sound off

then compare with speeches of ww2 leaders--good and evil

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

"no position whatsoever to criticize what President Bush did, "

We have all the position we need... the benefit of looking at the disaster Bush has left us.

Posted by: pmc123 | December 1, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

staging the bodies--

a psychological profile of obama
criminal psychologists can construct extremely accurate profiles of psychopaths by the way they stage the bodies after a murder,
or the method live photos are posed.

similarly, the way a government leader poses photos of himself is profilable.
for example, study evil leaders in ww2 photos and note how masses of troops were used by a leader as merely an
anonmyous obedient mass, not
individiuals, a back drop.

the evil leader was always depicted

alone

separate.

tonight analyze obama speech differently-try this

focus soley on how obama stages the bodies
the lighting
the bodies staged as a mass
the politcally correct mix of diverse ethnic groups

then read,
and only read
the text of what obama says
then watch the speech later with the sound off

then compare with speeches of ww2 leaders--good and evil

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

staging the bodies--

a psychological profile of obama
criminal psychologists can construct extremely accurate profiles of psychopaths by the way they stage the bodies after a murder,
or the method live photos are posed.

similarly, the way a government leader poses photos of himself is profilable.
for example, study evil leaders in ww2 photos and note how masses of troops were used by a leader as merely an
anonmyous obedient mass, not
individiuals, a back drop.

the evil leader was always depicted

alone

separate.

tonight analyze obama speech differently-try this

focus soley on how obama stages the bodies
the lighting
the bodies staged as a mass
the politcally correct mix of diverse ethnic groups

then read,
and only read
the text of what obama says
then watch the speech later with the sound off

then compare with speeches of ww2 leaders--good and evil

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

"I think our adversaries -- especially when that's preceded by a deep bow ... -- see that as a sign of weakness."

Gee I didn't know Japan one of our major allies and trading partners in the Pacific rim was now an enemy. Of course Cheney has never been very good at figuring out who to declare war against... he probably couldn't even pass the militaries entrance test. 5 deferements...geez... what a lazy toad.

"and full born lies"

Like WMD's in Iraq? That one cost us 1.5 trillion so far and it will probably be 3 trillion when its done.

Posted by: pmc123 | December 1, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

JakeD:
Big day for you, no one's arrest4ed you for molesting children and people are actually noticing you.
Jake, I'm serious about the meds, man. Check my messages -- I didn't ASK you any questions. You're of no interest or import.

'Bye boys 'n girls. Let Jake win a few, OK?

Posted by: bgreen2224 | December 1, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

TO ALL YOU REPUBLICANS/CONSERVATIVES:

You are criticizing the war strategy of the President? Don't you realize WE ARE AT WAR!!!! You absolutely cannot criticize the war strategies of our President while we are fighting the war. I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS! You are placing their lives in greater danger by making our enemies think we are divided!

You cannot criticize the President's war strategies while we have troops on the ground fighting for us! You are all America-hating anti-military fools!

SUPPORT THE TROOPS!!! SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT!!!

It is

Posted by: Len_RI1 | December 1, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Ok, who let "prebutting"--used as verb--through the editorial sifter? Or is the WP now being copy edited by a Google App?

Posted by: omfug321 | December 1, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

That's right, htruman, no combat vets ever voted for GWB (twice). You are so perceptive ...

Posted by: JakeD

-------------------------------------------

Maybe they did and maybe they didn't, but given that you're not what you claim to be why did you vote for him twice?

Posted by: htruman | December 1, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse


llevario2:

"Which military combat unit did Obama serve with? Just so you know, I was in the Army 60th Signal Service Company out of Fort Lewis during the Korean war."

How about Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln? They didn't serve in the military either. Serving in the military has rarely ever been a prerequisite to being a great leader.

BTW, George Bush did not serve. Being in the National Guard during the Vietnam war was, unlike today, a way of avoiding combat and was a destination for many a senator's sons to fulfill the illusion of them serving in the military without having to put their ass on the line.

Posted by: th12 | December 1, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

I was going to post something, but the boring bickering has ruined the whole board.

Posted by: kls1 | December 1, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

F U, htruman.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

obama will give a technically good, but forgettable speech tonight

full of half truths

full born lies

and historical revision and delusion

37--the nielsen share

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Exactly who needs Dick Cheney or Karl Rove to tell them what the average Afghan citizen is thinking? Wouldn't it be better to ask the actual citizens?

What does Cheney or Rove know about what foreigners perceive as signs of weakness, other than that it suits their purposes to see things that way? Why should anyone think Cheney or Rove has any idea at all what our adversaries are thinking? How do we know they aren't saying all this for any purposes other than self-serving ones?

They are saying all this for self-serving purposes. Period.

Posted by: CuckooRaja | December 1, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

bgreen2224:

I would be more than happy to answer your later-asked questions to me just as soon as you answer the pending question I asked you at 5:29 PM.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

has anyone seen that pentagon plane yet? ...maybe tiger woods was in the area???

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

I already told you I was in COMBAT during the Korean war. Care to tell us what YOUR military unit was (assuming it was American)?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse


-------------------------------------------

Lie, ahem, I mean tough talking lies like the fat boy draft dodgers that he worhsips.

Of course assuming the confused individual known as Jake did indeed serve his country we owe him our gratitude... but given that he is unlikely, or even capable, to prove it, combined with the fact that he routinely worships cowards, I am going to have to speculate that JakeD is just another sexually frustrated neocon who has never sacrificed anything on behalf of his country.

Posted by: htruman | December 1, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

obama will give a technically superb, but forgettable speech tonight

of shallow substance

half truths

and full born lies

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

@vickie105: You are wrong. Dick Cheney is not Darth Vader!

George Lucas was asked about the comparison in an interview. He pointed out that Vader was a puppet merely doing the bidding of the evil Emperor. So, in fact, it's George W. Bush who is Darth Vader, Dick Cheney is the evil Emperor.

Posted by: Len_RI1 | December 1, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Now watch the shells carefully as the Obama administration places the blame-pea under one of them. Here we go. Now, where is that blame-pea? At the end of the day it really does not matter, for the game belongs to Obama and he controls the outcome.

Posted by: Dutra1 | December 1, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

JakeD:
First, it appears that between you,Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush, you are the only one to CLAIM combat experience and are thus more qualified than the other three in military matters.
Second, since you obviously suffered severe brain trauma, have you considered medication and/or rehab? Could make a big difference in your really lonely life, man.

Posted by: bgreen2224 | December 1, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

To all of you Cheney and Rove/Bush supporters;You ran up our debt,disguising the Iraq disaster as a supplemental budget;you ruined our world-wide respect;you cost us over 4,000 lives because of your lies;you are all too chickencrap to join the military;you criticize Obama for trying to clean up the disgraceful mess you left this country in;I have one solution for your whining ways----my middle finger!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: walkman1956 | December 1, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

cheney and rove--

profiles in courage speaking

truth to obama

obama--he just doesn't get it

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Terrorfied:

You're welcome.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Hey, thanks for fighting those Koreans, Jake D. They were an imminent threat or something.

Posted by: Terrorfied | December 1, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

The grotesque troll and Darth Vader. These two are an insult to basic decency.

Posted by: vickie105 | December 1, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

The grotesque troll and Darth Vader. These two are an insult to basic decency.

Posted by: vickie105 | December 1, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

The grotesque troll and Darth Vader. These two are an insult to basic decency.

Posted by: vickie105 | December 1, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

The grotesque troll and Darth Vader. These two are an insult to basic decency.

Posted by: vickie105 | December 1, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

The grotesque troll and Darth Vader. These two are an insult to basic decency.

Posted by: vickie105 | December 1, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

The grotesque troll and Darth Vader. These two are an insult to basic decency.

Posted by: vickie105 | December 1, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

obama never even attended afghan hearings

while in the us senate he only attended one
as the article quotes:

"He did not. The foreign relations committee had three hearings on Afghanistan. He bothered to show up at one, and I can find no evidence he raised a single point or asked a single question. So, president Obama is not in a place to be critical of this.

"He can look back and rewrite history, whatever, but at the time, he did not speak out on this."

obama--lazy stupid and arrogant

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

The grotesque troll and Darth Vader. These two are an insult to basic decency.

Posted by: vickie105 | December 1, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

The grotesque troll and Darth Vader. These two are an insult to basic decency.

Posted by: vickie105 | December 1, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

The grotesque troll and Darth Vader. These two are an insult to basic decency.

Posted by: vickie105 | December 1, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

That's right, htruman, no combat vets ever voted for GWB (twice). You are so perceptive ...

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Not a bad idea not allowing us to easily recommend, or not. Today I would run out of ink "reccing" a huge majority of these comments. TFL, Ken

Posted by: kentigereyes | December 1, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

.
.
Really, is there a bigger a$$h0le on the planet than Dick Cheney? Oh, yeah -- Karl Rove.
.
.

Posted by: Len_RI1 | December 1, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Matthew_DC:

Too bad pResident Obama won't lock up Cheney or Rove, huh?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Heah cschotta1:

Have you heard the one about Reagan arming bin Laden and his Mujaheddin buddies in Afghanistan to beat the evil Soviets and then just abandoning Afghanistan? No? Or how about Reagan and Rumsfeld arming Iraq to fight Iran? No, you probably forgot about that too.

You, Cheney, and Rove can STFU because each of you is spouting nonsense.

Posted by: rcasero | December 1, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

The grotesque troll and Darth Vader. These two are an insult to basic decency.

Posted by: vickie105 | December 1, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

llevario2:

Which military combat unit did Obama serve with? Just so you know, I was in the Army 60th Signal Service Company out of Fort Lewis during the Korean war.

Posted by: JakeD

-------------------------------------------

Oh ha, and which military combat did any of your neocon draft dodging heroes serve in?

Somehow I really doubt that you served in Korea as you claim, because if you had, you likely wouldn't be the draft dodger worshipper that you are.

You see, comment threads are funny that way... like hate radio they give cowards who get off on talking tough the forum to misstate their credentials.

New rule, going forward "Fake Dee" has to pony up proof of his military experience otherwise it is our right to regulate him to the status of a draft dodger who worhsips tough talking draft dodgers.

LOL Fake, ahem, I mean "Jake".

Posted by: htruman | December 1, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Mr. 10-20% Approval Rating Who Cost McCain the Election, you are absolutely right! It's all those weak kneed liberals, with their long hair and ethnic diversity, acquiessing to the enemy! Instead of talking about how to avoid bankrupting our country in an unwinnable war, like what happened to the USSR and the British Empire, we should be talking about how we can defeat these people who live in caves in an environment almost as hostile as the moon! Do it for the children!

Posted by: Terrorfied | December 1, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

I already told you I was in COMBAT during the Korean war. Care to tell us what YOUR military unit was (assuming it was American)?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

obama--president photo op

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

bgreen2224:

Don Rumsfeld served in the United States Navy from 1954 to 1957 as an aviator and flight instructor. His initial training was in the North American SNJ Texan basic trainer after which he transitioned to flying the Grumman F9F Panther fighter. In 1957, he transferred to the Naval Reserve and continued his service in flying and administrative assignments as a drilling reservist until 1975. He transferred to the Individual Ready Reserve when he became Secretary of Defense in 1975 and retired with the rank of captain in 1989.

What's your military experience, son?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

cheney and rove

speaking for america

obama--weak, petulant, and confused

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 1, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

JakeD:
Bush's "service" in the National Guard was probably second only to yours. You out draft-dodged Cheney, didn't you?

Posted by: bgreen2224 | December 1, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

In a just society, Cheney and Rove would be behind bars focusing on their respective defenses for violations of the Constitution and war crimes. But in this wacky country, they're on TV all the time instead. If Nazi Germany had had American-style cable news and values, Hitler would have moved on to host his own talk show in which he attacked the "revisionists" who misrepresented WW2.

Posted by: Matthew_DC | December 1, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

koolkat_1960:

Sarah Palin gave her firstborn to the United States ARMY, but did not serve in the military herself (neither was I the one who claimed that military service was a pre-requisite to become POTUS).

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

First, am I the only one to notice a strange twin-like appearance between Rove and Limbaugh?
Second, of course, it's so good to hear from our former and presently unconvicted Vice President. With all the credibility of Mark Furhman commenting on recent NCAAP efforts, Cheney offers the usual RepubliKKK/KKKonservative rhetoric.
Finally, Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld have such little military experience,so few leadership skills and are possessed of a gigantic lack of integrity that once fishing season's over there'll be no reason to read the paper at all.

Posted by: bgreen2224 | December 1, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Why don't Cheney, Rove, and the rest of the Bush administration just go the F away.

They had their chance to F up the war in Afghanistan and the country, come to think of it, so why do they insists on interfering in President Obama's foreign policy agenda every minute of the day.

Go Away!

Posted by: lcarter0311 | December 1, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

htruman:

I do not worship draft dodgers and, for the record, George W. Bush SERVED his country in the Texas Air National Guard. I dare you to tell any of the National Guard servicemen and women in Iraq and Afghanistan today to their face that they are not "real" military. YOU are the "idiot" sir.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

I won't feel totally satisfied until GWBush comes out of hiding and says something stupid.

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

"llevario2:

Which military combat unit did Obama serve with? Just so you know, I was in the Army 60th Signal Service Company out of Fort Lewis during the Korean war."

No one cares what you did at any point in your life, but perhaps you can tell us what military unit -- I'll allow noncombat -- Sarah Palin served in, since she is your choice for president in 2012.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | December 1, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Con Inc. speaks... does anyone still listen?

Posted by: Whys | December 1, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Why does JakeD worship draft dodgers??

Oh yeah, that's right, because they talk tough, but otherwise exhibit cowardice when it comes to their actions.

Nevermind, question answered.

JakeD will probably show me my place by mentioning "Clinton" (ooohhhhh!). But Clinton didn't call himself "the war president". That moniker belonged to George W. Idiot. Guess you gotta be a draft dodger to talk real tough like GWB, Dick, Fat Molester (Rove), Rush et al.

Flame on you misguided neocon American Taliban posters!! :-)

Posted by: htruman | December 1, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

"It's funny that after all these months of 'study' Obama arrived at the same decision Bush would have (except Bush would have made a decision in 48 hours to support the troops and the mission)."

It's also funny that Bush decided not to kill Bin Laden when he had him trapped in the Tora Bora Mountains in 2001.

Oh wait, that's not funny; that's really sad, and several thousand Americans are dead because Bush let Bin Laden escape.

Bush is a piece of garbage and for defending him, you are too. Hope he rots in hell and you are free to join him down there.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | December 1, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

llevario2:

Which military combat unit did Obama serve with? Just so you know, I was in the Army 60th Signal Service Company out of Fort Lewis during the Korean war.

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

This two great Americans, who never served their country in uniform. WHY? They were the biggest cowards in this country.
We should listen to this two BIRDS.
They screw this country royale.

Posted by: llevario2 | December 1, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Simply unbelieveable!!!!! Two of the most despicable POS ever to be in government running their mouths. Round up DONNY and "w" and put these four, the true "axis of evil", in prison for the rest of their miserable lives. They have done enough damage to the United States of Arrogance. TFL, Ken

Posted by: kentigereyes | December 1, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

One question for Cheney, who let Obama escape from Tora Bora?

Posted by: August30 | December 1, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

And no one knows about weakening America like Cheney and Rove.

Posted by: light_bearer | December 1, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Just who I want to hear from - two chicken hawks who got us into this mess to begin with. Cheney was discredited after Gulf 1 when he gave away the farm to Hussein after the war (Helicopters anyone?) Now I want to hear from John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and finally Sarah Palin to round it out. The party of no just can't help themselves. So refreshing to have a president who actually thinks before he acts.

Posted by: bfjam | December 1, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Why is the Washington Post devoting ANY coverage to the comments of the fools who got us into two wars without a clue, without a budget and certainly without a thought. I may or may not agree with Mr. Obama tonight, but I respect the fact that he has given plans a lot of thought, consulted and engaged our allies. That counts for a lot, to me.

Cheney and Rove- who cares what they say, in my opinion they should be in jail.

Posted by: Dr_JES | December 1, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Cheney and Rove??? are uninvited "War Crashers"?!

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Rove and Cheney ??? ... well ...That's what happens when you don't put criminals in jail.

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 1, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

I say sign up CHENEY;s little girl for war, send her to AFPAK where she thinks we should be.
Let her stand out in the cold and rain and snow and see how long she lasts.

heck she wouldn't last as long as her DADDY DICK did with his 5 deferal.

Dick sucks, rove swallows

Posted by: kare1 | December 1, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

cschotta says

"Some where in Kenya, a village is missing it's idiot!"

As an editor, I can tell you confidently that:

1. "somewhere" is one word, and
2. "it's" is a contraction of "it is." The possessive "its" has no apostrophe.

I would recommend that cschotta spend some time reviewing English grammar. He may also wish to consult a dictionary to learn the definition of "irony."

It is especially delicious to me that he demonstrates his idiocy in the course of calling someone else an idiot.

Posted by: bokonon13 | December 1, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

cschotta says

"Some where in Kenya, a village is missing it's idiot!"

As an editor, I can tell you confidently that:

1. "somewhere" is one word, and
2. "it's" is a contraction of "it is." The possessive "its" has no apostrophe.

I would recommend that cschotta spend some time reviewing English grammar. He may also wish to consult a dictionary to learn the definition of "irony."

It is especially delicious to me that he demonstrates his idiocy in the course of calling someone else an idiot.

Posted by: bokonon13 | December 1, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

How soon Republicants forget Shrub waiting 4 years to change strategy in Iraq, meanwhile thousands of troops were killed or maimed due to inadequate or non-existant equipment. Now, Crazy Cheney and Rove the traitor are criticising Obama? They wouldn't know strategy if it shot them in the face. They chose to invade Iraq, even though the "war on terror" was in Afghanistan. They should shut up, and keep out of the public eye, lest some poor lawyer go hunting with deadeye Dick and shoot his mouth off.

Posted by: COLEBRACKETT | December 1, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse


I challenge anyone to contest these facts:

1. 9/11 happened on Cheney's watch and no one else's.

2. It usually offers comfort to America's enemies if former members of an administration criticize the current one. Breaking this un-written etiquette for the first time in a long time puts our troops in jeopardy. It's almost as smart as saying "bring it on." Why conservatives want Cheney to be Obama's Jimmy Carter puzzles and concerns me greatly.

3. Neo-cons are slipping. No one has mentioned ACORN today in these posts. Is it possibly because in reality, ACORN is an irrelevent smoke screen?

4. Dick Cheney is a lousy shot.

Posted by: tony_in_Durham_NC | December 1, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

.
.
.

Bush and Cheney have done more damage than what ANY terrorist can do to this country.

.
.
.
.
.

Posted by: A-Voter | December 1, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

al-Qaida operates under a manifesto, without a leader, so Bin Laden is not a reason for involvement in Afghanistan or Pakistan. al-Qaida is the reason and to prevent them from being given guest status in either Pakistan or Afghanistan, that is why we are fighting the Talib in both countries. Bin Laden is dead. The Bin Laden propaganda is coming out of the Middle East.

Posted by: tcmsols1 | December 1, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Only a slime bag like Karl Rove could be labeled as a Faux News contributor. What could Rove possibly contribute except lies and fearmongering?

As for Cheney, he was a real sucess as a warrior, wasn't he? 5 deferments and no experience at war, but Cheney thought he and Rummy, another draft dodger, could conquer the Middle East, kill all the terrorists, bring peace and prosperity to the area, and be welcomed by singing and flowers in a triumphant victory procession through Bagdad. Instead, he hid at home in his secret undisclosed location while his puppet was pelted with shoes.

In 8 years, all these people did was abandon an unfinished job in Afghanistan to invade a weak and defenseless Iraq with a fireworks show they called Shick and Aww, as if they were real macho men flexing their muscles, strew hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars around like it grew on trees, kill thousands of our troops and tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and foul both wars up so badly that all the American people got when Bush, Cheney and Rove slunk out of Washington was a stinking pile of t**d blossoms so high it will take the Democrats at least eight years to clean up.

Posted by: Chagasman | December 1, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Even though I view Obama with extreme distaste, if he acts as commander in chief, I will support him. The key phrase here is if he acts as commander in chief.

A commander in chief should link withdrawal to specific objectives acheived, not arbitrary timetables. A politician puts up arbitrary timetables without regard for objectives to appease a public. A commander in chief does his best to lead our forces to the completion of their military objectives.

A commander in chief also assigns troop levels to a conflict based upon achieving the mission objective, not upon popularity poles. McCrystal originally wanted 60,000 troops, and was talked down to publically requesting 40,000, which it appears Obama wishes to achieve by fielding a mixed force. Can that mixed force accomplish the objective? Obama needs to address that. Will 40,000 be enough? I do not want to see our guys strung out tired from 36hr shifts on patrol making mistakes and coming back dead just so Obama can appease lefties that he wasn't putting so many Americans over there.

Finally a commander in chief needs to show the American public where his deliberation affected the plan. If all he did was prune the McCrystal plan, and dallied for months doing so, that is a disservice to the American soldiers abroad. If instead he shows us that he went far beyond McCrystal and integrated different approaches into an incomplete McCrystal plan, that shows deliberation.

Tonight then is the test for Obama as Commander in Chief. Will he lead us to victory, or will he pander and appease us into a retreat?

Posted by: Wiggan | December 1, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

VeloStrummer -

THANK YOU !

Posted by: sasha2008 | December 1, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Man, you libs are haters. Guess you cant accept the fact that Obama is a weak and wobbly bumbler. Rove and Cheney are dead on and I hope they continue to speak out. It's funny that after all these months of 'study' Obama arrived at the same decision Bush would have (except Bush would have made a decision in 48 hours to support the troops and the mission). let's see if Barry can stick with it or if he is ready to run.

Posted by: DaMan2 | December 1, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse


On or about Dec. 16, 2001, bin Laden and bodyguards "walked unmolested out of Tora Bora and disappeared into Pakistan's unregulated tribal area," where he is still believed to be based, the report says.

CHENEY, Rumsfeld's BEST BUDDY did not DITHER!

Look what we got!

C-span's photo journalist interviewing the troops - dubbing Afghanistan the FORGOTTEN WAR!

2006- 2007- 2008

Troops- ON TAPE- stating they were in a FORGOTTEN WAR!

WHILE CHENEY DITHERED!

AND MSM is all about what DICK SAYS!

PULL those C- Span tapes and see what the TROOPS said about CHENEY!

After all - DICK ran the show!

Posted by: sasha2008 | December 1, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

9-11 happened on Mr. Cheney's watch.

Tom Kean, the Republican co-chair of the 9-11 Commission, has said the attacks could have been prevented.

Before they took office, senior Bush administration officials were briefed repeatedly about the al Qaeda threat.

Clinton National Security Adviser Sandy Berger told incoming National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice,

"I believe that the Bush administration will spend more time on terrorism in general, and on al Qaeda specifically, than any other subject.''

All the Republicans were screaming about Sandy Berger stealing papers and Clinton’s BJ.

Yet Cheney 'knew relatively nothing'

When Dick went on the faux clown show stating Al Qaida was "relatively" unknown on September 11, 2001 “one must wonder- where the hell he was?

I guess he really was too busy with the country’s ENERGY policy- BEHIND a closed door!

Remember ALLA that time in Crawford Texas- when they moved the white house - Titled the Texas ranch the 'Western' White House

Remember when Bush gave Cheney immunity to do whatever he wanted to do -

Dick will handle it - right Dick- and appoint his daughter to the state department-Who knew this?

When Dick went on the faux clown show stating Al Qaida was "relatively" unknown on September 11, 2001 " one must wonder- where the hell he was?

I guess he really was too busy with the country’s ENERGY policy- BEHIND a closed door!

John McCain claimed that he "believes" no other POTUS would ever do this. This is absurd- what happened to trust but verify Reagan mantra?

Surely- a country that has declined in educating themselves-

Worldwide Americans do not even rank in the top 25 for education " will now re-define what torture is and rely on John McCain’s belief?

So- this is what we got form these two CLOWNS-


On or about Dec. 16, 2001, bin Laden and bodyguards "walked unmolested out of Tora Bora and disappeared into Pakistan's unregulated tribal area," where he is still believed to be based, the report says.

CHENEY, Rumsfeld's BEST BUDDY did not DITHER!

Look what we got!

C-span's photo journalist interviewing the troops - dubbing Afghanistan the FORGOTTEN WAR!

2006- 2007- 2008

Troops- ON TAPE- stating they were in a FORGOTTEN WAR!

WHILE CHENEY DITHERED!

AND MSM is all about what DICK SAYS!

PULL those C- Span tapes and see what the TROOPS said about CHENEY!

After all - DICK ran the show!

Posted by: sasha2008 | December 1, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Two bloated fat pigs expelling smelly flatus. Who gives two f@cks what these Asshats have to say? They should both be in prison taking 12" dicks up the poop chute on an hourly basis.

Oh wait. They're republiKKKlan men and will probably enjoy that.

Posted by: VeloStrummer | December 1, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Dear President Clinton,

Three times during your 8 years in office, the Sudanese government offerred bin Laden to you, yet each time you cowardly refused him. Was it because you knew that having bin Laden in the US courts would cause an uproar in the Muslim community, and thus your ego and poll numbers would be effected, or did you feel it was easier to leave terrorism and the fight against terrorism to the next administration, thus saving your ego and poll numbers?

Posted by: cschotta1 | December 1, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Cheney?

That draft-dodging war-creating war criminal?

Yeah.

Sorry, but why hasn't he died yet?

Posted by: WillSeattle | December 1, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

there's at least one idiot on this board, and his name is cschotta. His "rebuttal" of bradcpa's points is as effective as Cheney/Rove's "prebuttal" of Obama's speech -- not in the slightest.

Posted by: koolkat

Only an "idiot" votes for a failed community organizer. Only an "idiot" stays with Reverend Wright for 20 years without knowing he was a racist!

Keep it coming lib, you are the "weakest link"!

Posted by: cschotta1 | December 1, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

there's at least one idiot on this board, and his name is cschotta. His "rebuttal" of bradcpa's points is as effective as Cheney/Rove's "prebuttal" of Obama's speech -- not in the slightest.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | December 1, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Nice of these guys to remind everyone how bad Republicans are for the country.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | December 1, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

It is Cheeney and Rove who want to re-write history. They are the ones who presided over Bin Laden's get away from Tora Bora.

-Clinton only had to say "yes" to the Sudanese Government and bin Laden would have been in US custody, but he didn't have the courage to put his people before his ego, imagine that lib?

They are the ones who got us into an unnecessary war caused us to neglect Afghanistan.

-Typical whining liberal talking points. What's wrong lib, the liberal playbook dry?


They are guys who installed this bozo as president and presided over his corruption.

-You might want to check out the chimp in the White House, the product of affirmative action, who thinks we have 57 states, who won't admit that the killing of 13 US solidiers was a terrorist attack!

This is clearly their mess and they should take credit for their failures instead of blaming the poor guy who gets to clean it up.

-Wrong lib, terrorism has been going on for decades, yet Bush was the one who had the courage to fight, and not appease-unlike Clinton and Nobama!

Posted by: bradcpa |

Posted by: cschotta1 | December 1, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

It's a crime they are so eager to speak out in view of the British investigation right now. After all it is our entire country they have gotten into this mess. Sending soldiers out with false impressions of their mission and it's necessity is an old trick of the war trade but in the modern age it is rather tacky especially when the excuses are so lame.

Posted by: Wildthing1 | December 1, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

It is Cheeney and Rove who want to re-write history. They are the ones who presided over Bin Laden's get away from Tora Bora. They are the ones who got us into an unnecessary war caused us to neglect Afghanistan. They are guys who installed this bozo as president and presided over his corruption. This is clearly their mess and they should take credit for their failures instead of blaming the poor guy who gets to clean it up.

Posted by: bradcpa | December 1, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Attention Rove:

March 2002--In the second half of March 2002, as the Bush administration mapped its next steps against al Qaeda, Deputy CIA Director John E. McLaughlin brought an unexpected message to the White House Situation Room.

According to two people with firsthand knowledge, he told senior members of the president's national security team that the CIA was scaling back operations in Afghanistan.

That announcement marked a year-long drawdown of specialized military and intelligence resources from the geographic center of combat with Osama bin Laden.

As jihadist enemies reorganized, slipping back and forth from Pakistan and Iran, the CIA closed forward bases in the cities of Herat, Mazar-e Sharif and Kandahar. The agency put off an $80 million plan to train and equip a friendly intelligence service for the new U.S.-installed Afghan government.

Task Force 5 -- a covert commando team that led the hunt for bin Laden and his lieutenants in the border region -- lost more than two-thirds of its fighting strength.

Source:
Afghanistan, Iraq: Two Wars Collide
By Barton Gellman and Dafna Linzer
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, October 22, 2004; Page A01

Posted by: FedUp1 | December 1, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

"Some where in Kenya, a village is missing it's idiot!"

Are you referring to Cheney or Rove, numbnutz?

Posted by: koolkat_1960 |

There's only one idiot in charge of this country!

Posted by: cschotta1 | December 1, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Rove & Cheney are traitors. When our President has reached a decision and is moving to execute his strategy, these seditionists are providing comfort to our enemies by showing us to be fractured and split in our goals. It is time for us to stand behind our President and work toward acheving victory against our enemies either by subverting or by killing them. This is not a time for for people who did not complete the job to be covering their behinds by denigrating the Office of the President.

Posted by: whoislike | December 1, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Cheney is the most disgusting human being in the U.S. Rove is runner-up.

Posted by: GeorgHerbet | December 1, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Those guys literally make me feel sick. They're criminals without remorse. And revisionism? Looks like Rove is writing the book on that one. Don't they know the only audience they have left is the tea-bagging fringe?

Posted by: st50taw | December 1, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse


Cheney and Rove,

No credibility - these two are responsible,
in conjunction with Rice, Bush, Rumsfeld,
et al for tanking our economy, involving us
in two useless wars - costs of which have
drained our treasury and put undo
burdens on taxpayers, destroying our
reputation in the world, and fear-mongering
to the extent of insanity.

Crawl back into the holes you came out of -
these two are worthless, wingnuts!

Posted by: Sirius2 | December 1, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse


It couldn't have been said any better....

Posted by: lucygirl1 | December 1, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Cheney and Rove,

No credibility - these two are responsible,
in conjunction with Rice, Bush, Rumsfeld,
et al for tanking our economy, involving us
in two useless wars - costs of which have
drained our treasury and put undo
burdens on taxpayers, destroying our
reputation in the world, and fear-mongering
to the extent of insanity.

Crawl back into the holes you came out of -
these two are worthless, wingnuts!

Posted by: Sirius2 | December 1, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Chaney hung around the Bushes too long......now he's the third stooge...he's Moe

Posted by: lucygirl1 | December 1, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Attention Rove:

Gen. Tommy Franks told Sen. Bob Graham that
on Feb. 19, 2002, just four months after the invasion of Afghanistan, that many important resources -- including the Predator drone aircraft crucial to the search for Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda leaders -- were being shifted to prepare for a war against Iraq.

He and Cheney must think we're idiots!

Posted by: FedUp1 | December 1, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

"Some where in Kenya, a village is missing it's idiot!"

Are you referring to Cheney or Rove, numbnutz?

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | December 1, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

comment by whitecatuhcl]
Some truth to this, but Cheney talked tough for 7+ years with what results?
________________________________________

Results? Foiling several planned terror attacks in US and abroad, eviscerating AQ leadership - globally, toppling a tin-horn dictator and Islamic nutjobs to free millions in Afghanistan and Iraq, consolidation of US intel apparatus to increase copperation/communication, and probably many other positive developments that we are not privy to (and won't be). Cheney would be the last one to take any credit for the aforementioned results, but he most definitely played a role. The rock-throwers here (who are already frothing at the mouth)will likely spew many (and I mean many) negatives...it's what they do. But, I'll take the results listed above any day of the week over the BS that you will see in the posts here today.

Posted by: boomer131 | December 1, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Why does the media seek out these has-beens? I thing the general public is fed-up with these and other Republican "No-birds." They are negative no matter what the Administration does and would not admit a success if their lives depended upon it! They had their day, and they helped place this country in the mess we're in today...ENOUGH!

Posted by: mmcmanus0121 | December 1, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

CHENEY talks about exit strategies in Afghanistan when he and Bush failed to nail bin Laden in Tora Bora in early December 2001, and then moved troops and materiel out to invade Iraq?

Thanks for the laugh, Dick. I needed it!!!

Posted by: FedUp1 | December 1, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld: utter garbage.

Too bad these gutless losers didn't kill Bin Laden when he was IN FACT trapped in the Tora Bora Mountains in 2001 -- just like John Kerry said.

Turns out Kerry was right and these pieces of crap were wrong. And they think anyone should care what they think now because ???

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | December 1, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Some where in Kenya, a village is missing it's idiot!

Posted by: cschotta1 | December 1, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

"Cheney said. "I think our adversaries -- especially when that's preceded by a deep bow ... -- see that as a sign of weakness."
________

is Dick calling Japan our adversary?

obviously, Dick prefers bending one over to suit his...will.

Posted by: forestbloggod | December 1, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Sheesh, the least they could do is wait until AFTER the speech to attack. Gutless, spineless draft dodging Dick responsible for the lost lives of thousands. He and Saddam can have tea in Hell, and it can't be soon enough for me.

Posted by: elkofan | December 1, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Cheney and Rove, or, as I like to think of them,
Hitler and Goebbels.

Posted by: rkerg | December 1, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Adversaries, Foes, Enemies......Weakness, War, Death.....Conservative talking points.

Posted by: swatkins1 | December 1, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

I "care". Also, neither bmadden3 nor I heard anything that they said with which we disagreed. How about you critics stick with substance rather than opinion polls?

Posted by: JakeD | December 1, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

boomer131 wrote:
Cheney speaks: "The average Afghan citizen "sees talk about exit strategies and how soon we can get out, instead of talk about how we win," Cheney told Politico. "Those folks ... begin to look for ways to accommodate their enemies," Cheney said. "They're worried the United States isn't going to be there much longer and the bad guys are."
[then]
Love Cheney or hate him...your choice. But his assessment is dead-on.
[comment by whitecatuhcl]
Some truth to this, but Cheney talked tough for 7+ years with what results?

Posted by: whitecatuhcl | December 1, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

In a CBS news poll, Cheney left office with a 13 percent approval rating. Is there anybody who even cares what he thinks, besides you and Fox News? You might as well go out and get a comment from Octomom or the Balloon Boy.

Posted by: pjkiger1 | December 1, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Cheney and Rove would be tried as war criminals in any other time and any other place. Why do we continue to pay attention to the rants of these sick human beings? They represent nothing other than the true evil that exists in this country.

Posted by: julianbfreund | December 1, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I didn't hear anything that either Cheney or Rove said with which I disagreed.

Posted by: bmadden3 | December 1, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Wow where to begin... I want to know where all of Bush, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeldt's military experience got us? Also what did we get with Cheney and Rumsfeldt's past involvement in past administrations?

...Oh that's right two of the dumbest wars in U.S. history.

And nice spin there Rove, but you still abandoned Afghanistan and lied about Iraq's nuclear capabilities. You can't be labeled a revisionist because you were already a master of deception. And the prime example of it is the phony cowboy you created that everyone wanted to have a drink with.

Posted by: AverageJane | December 1, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

What a disgrace that cretin Cheney is. "Here's a guy"? That's how you refer to the sitting President? After all that talk from him of "patriotism", he refers to the sitting President as "a guy"???

Posted by: justin032 | December 1, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Cheney speaks: "The average Afghan citizen "sees talk about exit strategies and how soon we can get out, instead of talk about how we win," Cheney told Politico. "Those folks ... begin to look for ways to accommodate their enemies," Cheney said. "They're worried the United States isn't going to be there much longer and the bad guys are."

Love Cheney or hate him...your choice. But his assessment is dead-on.

Posted by: boomer131 | December 1, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Why on earth is anyone asking Cheney and Rove for their opinions?

Posted by: jjj141 | December 1, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Cheney warns of the Obama administration "accomodating their enemies." Does he mean like his administration did in Iraq, when they paid Sunni insurgents to stop attacking coalition forces?

Posted by: paul6554 | December 1, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Well, Mr. Cheney's nickname speaks for itself, so no rebuttal needed there.

Really Karl? You're saying that you didn't take your eye off the ball by starting a war we didn't need and ingoring the one we were already in? Facinating.

Posted by: EricS2 | December 1, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

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