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House sidesteps 2 anti-'deem and pass' resolutions

Updated 7:33 p.m.
By Ben Pershing
The debate over Democrats' preferred method for passing a health reform measure came to the House floor Thursday, as Democrats sidestepped one resolution that would have required an up-or-down tally on the Senate health bill and dispensed with a second GOP measure slamming the majority's tactics.

The first resolution -- offered by Democrat-turned-Republican Rep. Parker Griffith (Ala.) -- would have prevented Democrats from using a "deem and pass" strategy to approve the Senate measure. Under this scenario, the House would "deem" the Senate bill passed when the chamber approves the rule governing debate for health care, and then would vote on a package of "fixes" to the Senate bill negotiated between the two chambers.

The bill to ensure an up-or-down vote on health care never got an up-or-down vote itself. Technically, the House voted 222-203 Thursday for "the previous question" -- in favor of proceeding to a rule vote for the day's calendar of bills. A vote against the previous question was a vote in support of giving Republicans the chance to offer their own rule, though the GOP likely would have had to prevail on more procedural questions before they could have brought Griffith's measure to a vote.

On Thursday evening, Republicans failed in a second effort, as House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.) offered a privileged resolution citing news reports on the deem-and-pass strategy and on alleged wheeling and dealing for health-care votes. Cantor's resolution stated "that the House disapproves of the malfeasant manner in which the Democratic Leadership has thereby discharged the duties of their offices."

The House voted 232-181 to "table" - or set aside - Cantor's measure, with 10 Democrats voting with 171 Republicans against the motion.

There was less party unity on the earlier procedural vote, as 28 Democrats joined every Republican present in voting to give the GOP a chance to offer their own rule, but their effort failed. Members from both sides of the aisle scoured Thursday's tally looking for clues on how the final health votes will fall.

Some Democrats who are publicly undecided or appear to be leaning "no" on the health-care bill voted with their party Thursday, including Reps. Luis Gutierrez (Ill.), Brad Ellsworth (Ind.), Marcy Kaptur (Ohio) and Jason Altmire (Pa.). But several Democrats in the spotlight decided to vote with the GOP -- including Reps. Bart Stupak (Mich.), Frank Kratovil (Md.), Tom Perriello (Va.), Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (S.D.), Michael Arcuri (N.Y.) and John Adler (N.J.).

Before the vote, Republicans reiterated their charge that, as Rep. Virginia Foxx (N.C.) put it, Democrats were "resorting to tricks and sleight of hand" to get their health measure through.

And GOP lawmakers sought to rebut the charge that they were only interested in talking about process, rather than the substance of the bill.

"If you do that kind of thing continually, you're going to get a bad product," Rep. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) said of the deem and pass strategy. "I would suggest the health care bill ... is a bad product, and it's partly because of a flawed process."

But Democrats said the debate was much ado about nothing, as everyone in Congress - and the public - would understand that the rule vote represented a vote on the Senate measure.

"This idea that there will not be a House vote on the Senate bill - it's simply not true," said Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.). "It may be a good smokescreen, but it's not true."

President Obama made a similar point in an interview with Fox News Wednesday. ""If people vote yes, whatever form that takes, that is going to be a vote for health-care reform," Obama said. "And I don't think we should pretend otherwise."

Democrats haven't officially confirmed that they will use the strategy to move the health-care bill, but they have spent significant time this week defending the practice. They have pointed out repeatedly that Republicans used the procedure dozens of times when they were in the majority.

It didn't take long after the first vote Thursday for Republicans to begin blasting Democrats for it on the campaign trail. The National Republican Congressional Committee sent out releases to the districts of more than 60 Democrats who voted to block Griffith's resolution, accusing them of voting "to allow [a] shady backroom scheme to sneak" the health bill through Congress.

Procedural maneuvering aside, Republicans believe they will gain political ammunition from the fact that Democrats will have to approve the Senate bill somehow - with its "Cornhusker Kickback" and other special deals House members have criticized - before they approve the reconciliation package to fix those problems.

"They compound the political problem if they think they can get away with voting against this thing after they've voted for it," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said Thursday.

For a full list of how representatives have said they will vote -- and who remains undecided -- see The Post's comprehensive and continuously updated "Who's in play" graphic.

By Ben Pershing  |  March 18, 2010; 2:55 PM ET
Categories:  Capitol Briefing  
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Comments

hrm... guyicap says that "I can`t believe that democrats out there in our country think that this health coverage will be free to all people,when instead it will cost more, not less, then your presnt coverage. And besides,you will be forced to buy it, wether you want it or not."

He does have a point-- TANSTAAFL, my daddy always said. However, millions of Americans (20 or 30 or 40 or 47, does it really matter?) don't have coverage at any price, so their coverage under the proposed system will not be more, or less, or anything... and we can easily do the math and figure out that what citizens of other developed nations pay for taxes and health care, with universal or near-universal coverage, is LESS, not MORE, than what US citizens pay. So really, the "we can't afford it" argument doesn't hold any water, and is just designed to frighten people. Obviously it's frightened guyicap.

Posted by: nikFlorida | March 19, 2010 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Win or lose on this health care bill, I can`t believe that democrats out there in our country think that this health coverage will be free to all people,when instead it will cost more, not less, then your presnt coverage. And besides,you will be forced to buy it, wether you want it or not. I cannot afford not even $20.oo a month and the millions out there that you think will have coverage will have nothing.Forced ins. is nothing but a scam for the government. Ask any person that doesn`t even carry the manditory auto liability ins. All you will get is fines.

Posted by: guyicap | March 19, 2010 8:42 PM | Report abuse

The "deem and pass" rule is quite obviously constitutional, as the Republicans successfully defended its constitutionality against Democratic accusations in court just a few years ago. If you don't believe me, then go read it. http://nikflorida.com FOLLOW THE LINKS.

Posted by: nikFlorida | March 19, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

A poster above claims that "Deem and pass is a procedural move that can be used for many reasons, but it has only been used 6 times since 1900 to amend a bill. And never to amend a 1 trillion bill or a Senate bill."

In fact, the self-executing rule to which this poster is referring was first used in the 1970s as an obscure procedural rule, but has become much more popular and significant since the rise of the Reaganites in the early 1980s, and its record use should be rewarded to Newt Gingrich, although Dennis Hastert resorted to it much more often than Nancy Pelosi has, and it was most recently notably used by House Republicans to avoid accountability for a particularly embarrassing immigration vote, if you recall. To read the TRUTH of this matter, go to http://nikflorida.org and use the links.

Posted by: nikFlorida | March 19, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Aside to bcs2k.....it's always nice to have a constitutional scholar in the room..suggest you read your assignment again, ok?

Posted by: connyankee1 | March 19, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

you gotta love watching the hapless Repubs scream and whine. Their leadership led us to this dire situation. Their hyperbole (death panels, use of over-the-top terms like "Cornhusker Kickback" and "Louisiana Purchase") have caused such great confusion in the weak minded (the poor and uneducated members of their base) that "deem and pass" is the only way to get this done without creating civil unrest, safety risks to politicians, and the worlds biggest finger-pointing contest from weak-minded Repubs.

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I love it when the GOP squeals like the pigs they are when the Democrats fully enact U.S. constitution article 1 section 5 clause 2
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Clause 2: Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member.
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[http://www.house.gov/house/Constitution/Constitution.html]

Posted by: bcs2k | March 19, 2010 7:14 AM | Report abuse

To all of the Republicans/conservatives complaining about the dirty Democratic tricks all I can say are those immortal words made famous by John McEnroe,

"YOU CAN"T BE SERIOUS!"

Posted by: biggerjake | March 19, 2010 2:33 AM | Report abuse

Everyone blames Bush for spending us into bankruptcy. In fact, except for the war cost (which was and is considerable), most of the other high cost legislation was passed with strong support from the democrats.

In fact, democrats wanted more money spent on the new/expanded entitlements than the republicans were willing to spend.

If democrats had had their way, we would be in deeper debt they we are today. Just looking at the spending over the past year should convince you of this.

Posted by: pcc1107 | March 18, 2010 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Some commenters have attempted to overlook dissent over 'deem and pass' by suggesting Republicans have used it.

Let me clarify: Deem and pass is a procedural move that can be used for many reasons, but it has only been used 6 times since 1900 to amend a bill. And never to amend a 1 trillion bill or a Senate bill.

Never mind that the relativist nihilistic logic they're using is merely destructive towards democracy. A free and just society depends on an active, engaged public appealing to law and principles, not the bitterness and whining of "they did it too."

Posted by: cprferry | March 18, 2010 10:55 PM | Report abuse

Open wide you whining Republicans: time to get some of the medicine you gave when you spent this country into bankruptcy. When you lied us into war which led to the deaths of thousands of American soldiers. You did that while lying through your teeth. Using the 'deem' method to actually do something humane and fiscally sound is just fine for the majority of Americans watching the Republicans delay and deceive.

Posted by: medogsbstfrnd | March 18, 2010 10:48 PM | Report abuse

I like how, today on the radio, Michelle Bachmann said that when Denny Hastert was Speaker, he never would have gotten away with "deem and pass". Not surprising that she didn't know that he did, in fact, get away with it as Speaker.... 100 times! And Newt used it around 90 times.

Poor GOP... they don't like it when the Dems govern like they did when they were in power! Deal with it, GOP. You lost to your own game.

Posted by: mikebythesun | March 18, 2010 10:46 PM | Report abuse

All republicans should hope that the health bill passes. If it does, and it bombs, democrats will be feeling the effects of it for many election cycles to come, and the country will be better off.

On the other hand, if the bill turns out to be successful, and provides better and cheaper health care for everyone, everyone wins, including republican citizens.

The whole country will be better off and isn't that the bottom line.

Posted by: pcc1107 | March 18, 2010 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Those claiming the Constitution or Democracy is dying have no idea what it is. Read the Constitution. Read history. There is nothing unconstitutional in how this reform is being passed. Unconstitutional is just your word for "I don't like it."

Posted by: hitpoints | March 18, 2010 10:22 PM | Report abuse

The Constitution died the day Bush and Cheney took office. The GeeOhPee bots have short term memory loss, but Bush thought it was no problem messing with constitutional protections because it was just "a GD piece of paper". Why start worrying now if you didn't then...oh, you're a GeeOhPee member or their affiliate Tea Party parrot. You don't remember what Bush did to the Constitution. You can only remember what happened this morning.

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Posted by: leiweiniliu | March 18, 2010 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Let's see, the Constitution's dying, the American Empire is dying, Freedom's dying, Liberty's dying, the intent of "The Founders" is dying. Wasn't all this said when Social Security became law, when Medicare became law, when the Civil Rights Bill became law, etc.? Seems to me what's dying is hard right conservatism, which is nowhere near what "The Founders" intended when they formed this Republic. The GOPee needs to sit down and read the Constitution and realize that those very smart men, some 240 years ago, were wise enough to understand that the document was not set in stone. Rather, it is a "living document". They showed that they understood, and intended, exactly that when they included an Amendment process.

Posted by: philasportsphan | March 18, 2010 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Republicans are acting like spoiled children as usual. They used this exact strategy on numerous occasions when they were in the majority...now that they aren't all of a sudden it is isn't legitimate.

It is truly amazing the lengths they will go to to make sure 30 million of their fellow citizens are without health care...

Posted by: sonofkenny1 | March 18, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

It's obvious to me that the democrats are going to pass this bill and the republicans know they lost the war.
If the republicans were so sure that the democrats could not get this bill passed they would not be pumping out all this spin, fighting sooo hard, offering troll advice to democrats, on and on.
All the threats of them doing this or that if the bill is passed is just more of the threats they are using to keep their ignorant base pumped but, they know nothing will come of it.

Posted by: vwcat | March 18, 2010 9:33 PM | Report abuse

"So this is how democracy dies - to thunderous applause."

Posted by: CarlosHawes | March 18, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse


I sent a letter to my congressman informing him that if this is deemed passed without an actual vote, I will assume that he was complicit in this subterfuge and will vote against him November 2nd.

Posted by: screwjob11 | March 18, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

Cowards!!!!!!!!!!
None of these tricks has been used on anything as massive as this healthcare bill. Especially when many have not even read the final bill and we have all of 72 hours to read and decipher 2700 pages of deals, legalize, etc. You should all be ashamed of yourselves!

Posted by: tucsoncaller | March 18, 2010 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Cowards!!!!!!!!!!
None of these tricks has been used on anything as massive as this healthcare bill. Especially when many have not even read the final bill and we have all of 72 hours to read and decipher 2700 pages of deals, legalize, etc. You should all be ashamed of yourselves!

Posted by: tucsoncaller | March 18, 2010 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Another not so great day for JakeD ...

Posted by: HughBriss | March 18, 2010 9:07 PM | Report abuse

"They have pointed out repeatedly that Republicans used the procedure dozens of times when they were in the majority."

Where's the "Change"? This is "status quo"!

Posted by: kwoods2 | March 18, 2010 9:05 PM | Report abuse

44 BC; Death of the Roman Republic
1933: Death of the Wiemar Republic
2010: Death of the American Republic

It was nice while is lasted.
the Slaughter solution was quite well named.

Posted by: CarlosHawes | March 18, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Finally! The good guys are coming to the rescue. Go Dems! Pass the bill!

Posted by: dudh | March 18, 2010 8:58 PM | Report abuse

If the Republicans are so smart - and they are not - why are they making all this noise and going so far as to lie and distort to bring down Obama and the health reform bill with dire warnings that come November, the Democrats will lose?

They can't help it, because they can't be sure of their own predictions. So in desperation to stop the Obama agenda, they have passed the bounds of decency and civil discourse. We'll have to wait and see what happens in the mid-terms. I wouldn't put my money on the GOP predictions - they've lost it.

Posted by: jbleenyc | March 18, 2010 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Reps did every maneuver possible when they had the majority. Turn about is fair play. Stick it to 'em, Dems. The party of "NO" won't cooperate on anything. As Sam Goldwyn is supposed to have said, "Pay no attention to your enemies. Don't even ignore them."

Posted by: frodot | March 18, 2010 8:49 PM | Report abuse

ogcabin1836 ~ then we should begin the hangings with Hastert, and we'll get to you Democrats anyway.

All the same outcome no matter where we start.

Thought you knew that.

Squealing like a pig you'll be!

--------------------------------------

Squealing with delight when President Obama is re-elected by a landslide.

Bet you know that.

Posted by: mingkeeper | March 18, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

The little Austrian Corporal in 1933 promised hope and change too. And boy did he deliver!!!!

Posted by: CarlosHawes | March 18, 2010 8:34 PM | Report abuse

Even if you don't agree with health care reform, everyone has to acknowledge Obama's skill, courage and tenacity. He really is an amazing person. It's hard to write that since I voted against him in the election, but we have to give him the respect he's earned.

Posted by: mingkeeper | March 18, 2010 8:33 PM | Report abuse

My Grandma used to say be careful what you wish for you just might get it...so all you dems I hope you get this bill I really do then when the BIT###ng starts we can all say thank you dems! This is to be Obamas legacy I guess I am different I would want to be remembered for some thing GOOD!

Posted by: Immanurse | March 18, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

Constitutional lawyers are lining up, 37 states are initiating lawsuits, the majority of the American people are past the point of anger and are in a rage that threatens to erupt in Civil disobedience. What does it take to get these thugs' attention! I have never been so disgusted with an administration in my life. Loathesome! Despicable!

Posted by: inmanorj | March 18, 2010 8:23 PM | Report abuse

bklyndan22 ~ Surprise ~ most hospitals in this country ARE private institutions. Many are owned by religious orders, or schools, or local nonprofit hospital groups.

Then there are a large group owned by counties, cities, states or state institutions.

A minority of hospitals are owned by private for profit organizations.

The most advanced medical work takes place in the private for profit hospitals.

Your wish, should you examine it closely, is to eliminate science and replace it with first aid stations.

I think you're a very sick person.

Posted by: muawiyah | March 18, 2010 8:20 PM | Report abuse

And so, after 227 years, the American Constitution dies with a whimper not a bang. Killed by the very people sworn to follow it.

Posted by: CarlosHawes | March 18, 2010 8:09 PM | Report abuse

logcabin1836 ~ then we should begin the hangings with Hastert, and we'll get to you Democrats anyway.

All the same outcome no matter where we start.

Thought you knew that.

Squealing like a pig you'll be!

Posted by: muawiyah | March 18, 2010 8:09 PM | Report abuse

ProCounsel,

On "Twilight Zone Earth", do the partisan conservative martinets like yourself actually think critically about issues rather than spout distortions and inaccurate labels?

If so, it is probably not a bad place to be.

Posted by: Ken_Davis1 | March 18, 2010 8:04 PM | Report abuse

You don't have to look very far to see this; Look at the people in the Senate and Congress. Now look at the People that Follow Obama. One Group will Follow Obama Blindly. The Other Group will follow Obama because they have been Bribed. This is something that You know is True. Now I know this to be True. The Mark of the Beast on your Forehead is when you Accept the Anti-Christ through Blind Faith. The Mark of the Beast on your Hand is when you Accept the Anti-Christ through Gifts. People Obama is the Anti-Christ that you have all read about. You have been Warned.

Posted by: makom
---------------------------------------
Enough of your crazy talk. Please, take one of your antipsychotics and settle down.

Posted by: MNUSA | March 18, 2010 7:57 PM | Report abuse

Taxation without representation.
Posted by: astro2009

Amazing, the level of civic ignorance in this country. Astro2009 has representation, he has his vote. A representative democracy, or republic, does not mean that each individual gets a Congressman who votes his own preferred way every time. Who you vote for may *never* win, but representation is still there. We also don't have direct democracy, so all this talk of "put the bill before the people and have a referendum" is moot. The people who talk about our founding principles and our Constitution seem to be the most in the dark about what these things really are. Turn off Fox and pick up a book.

Posted by: hitpoints | March 18, 2010 7:54 PM | Report abuse

There's not one person in a thousand that understands this game that's being played in the House -- slaughter, deem and pass, pass and go -- flatulence and more flatulence.

And it's this public ignorance of procedural shell games that our Democrat congressmen and women are counting on. It's called cover. They still don't seem to grasp how the new communication tools have rendered them naked (in a manner of speaking), and that even we redneck joe shmoes know whassup, even if we don't know the specific intricacies of procedure.

In short, it all stinks.

Happily, whatever bill that's flushed in by this crop of roosters can be just as easily flushed out by the next.

Sayonara


Posted by: RossOdom | March 18, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

Any legislative trick out there has already been used by the Repubs.

Posted by: MNUSA | March 18, 2010 7:52 PM | Report abuse

You don't have to look very far to see this; Look at the people in the Senate and Congress. Now look at the People that Follow Obama. One Group will Follow Obama Blindly. The Other Group will follow Obama because they have been Bribed. This is something that You know is True. Now I know this to be True. The Mark of the Beast on your Forehead is when you Accept the Anti-Christ through Blind Faith. The Mark of the Beast on your Hand is when you Accept the Anti-Christ through Gifts. People Obama is the Anti-Christ that you have all read about. You have been Warned.

Posted by: makom | March 18, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Listen all you conservative right-wing nuts out there screaming about the Democrats using "deem and pass" as the end of democracy, etc,....Republican House Leader Dennis Hastert used "deem & pass" one hundred times when the GOP controlled Congress!!. Don't believe me? Look it up!!!.....
Then shut up!

Posted by: logcabin1836 | March 18, 2010 7:48 PM | Report abuse

Why bother having a Senate then? If the house can change anything they right without the Senate consent then what is the point?

Posted by: HockeyMike351 | March 18, 2010 7:18 PM | Report abuse

Kill the bill and then the Congressmen and women who voted fort it. Taxation without representation.

Posted by: astro2009 | March 18, 2010 7:16 PM | Report abuse

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-----------------------
-----------------------

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Sorry, this has to be one of yours. There are no conservatives in Chicago. We'd be a red state if there were.

Posted by: lashadow1 | March 18, 2010 7:12 PM | Report abuse

If opposing "deem and pass" is much ado about nothing, then why don't they just have an up-or-down vote? Why the maneuvering?

Posted by: smc91 | March 18, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Were Congress "debating" invading Iran, the GOP would deem-and-pass us into an unfunded costly and bloody war fast enough to make your head spin. All wars are vitally necessary for Our National Security. All social welfare programs constitute coddling of unworthy people. "Get a job, parasite." Such Christian charity I've never beheld before. GOP is worried about the job killing nature in the health insurance industry of increased regulation. They've received many visits and high value payoffs to encourage a fight to the death to defeat health insurance reform. Now they may not be able to deliver on a promise to derail reform. How utterly embarrassing it must be for the GOP. As they go down, it is interesting to hear them gurgle about a slippery slope toward a complete government takeover of all private industry. Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt. Worked for IBM.

Posted by: BlueTwo1 | March 18, 2010 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Twilight Zone Obama

(WASHINGTON DC) Excited astronomers at NASA announced the discovery of an alternate Earth in our solar system hidden by bent radio spectrum solar waves.

The new planet, dubbed Twilight Zone Earth, amazed sociologists with its parallel but opposite development. They also have a President Obama, except their President Obama is Honorable and just this week told Congress:

“Congress MUST vote on the health care plan. In America we do NOT allow subterfuges like “deeming” the bill approved. I will VETO any bill “deemed” passed–even though it is my bill.

“Pass my healthcare bill constitutionally........ or let it DIE” he explained to thunderous applause. “In Americas we have no Dictators who “deem” laws.”

On Twilight Zone Earth, the American people are proud of the morality of their President and his defense of the Constitution.

Posted by: ProCounsel | March 18, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Wow...they "sidestepped" the issues by taking votes. Is a majority vote now a tricky parliamentary procedure? LOL

Posted by: js_edit | March 18, 2010 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Well, I think our tea partiers have laid out their constitutional position: if they don't like it, it's unconstitutional. Meanwhile, Republicans used "deem-and-pass" 36 times from 2005 to 2006. Ever see a story about it at the time? No. Because it's not really important. The House and Senate passed their bills. Now, since the Republicans made it impossible to have a conference committee, we've turned to "deem-and-pass." Tell me where a "major bill" is somehow an exception. It isn't.

It's pretty common sense, really. If you vote FOR the amendments, you've voted for the whole bill. The Senate bill's been up there for months. Without passing the bill without changes, there's no way to getting the reconciliation going. Remember, Republicans will filibuster everything. They were against this bill before there was a bill.

But we don't like it! is not evidence that it's unconstitutional.

Posted by: jimhass | March 18, 2010 6:40 PM | Report abuse

If you're interested in how this bill will affect your health care (pro- or anti- bill), the most important section is Title IV (starts on p. 2020), entitled "IMPLEMENTATION OF BEST PRACTICES IN THE DELIVERY OF HEALTH CARE".

If you do nothing else, (1) understand what "best practice" guidelines are, and (2) decide for yourself how government established "best practices" will be used.

Posted by: Fletch_F_Fletch | March 18, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

LOL.

It's fun watching the America-hating Republicants who want our nation to be anti-competitive go nutso over we Dems using the same tactics they have used against us so many times.

Look into that place you can not go. You will see us staring back at you!

Posted by: WillSeattle | March 18, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse

What has occured in Congress over the last two months should scare the hell out of all Americans. Both political parties banked on Americans behaving like sheep and accepting their respective party actions for the betterment of their party. And "The People" didn't disappoint. Party sheep have stood mute, as Republicans in Congress vigorously opposed healthcare, not on principle or higher moral ground, but for political convenience. And party sheep have stood mute, as Democrats pursued, at all costs, the passage of a seriously flawed bill. And as citizens foolishly aligned themselves with both parties, cheering their respective Congressmen on, something very foreign to our Democracy silently occurred. We gave up our rights and powers as "The People" to a group of men and women in Washington who, in reality, stomped on the very instrument that ensures "The People" remain free. Our Constitution. Forget political parties for a minute because that only cheapens the larger issue. No, passing major legislation by participating in bribery is the stuff of communism. And both parties have done it. Suggesting a Bill that significantly effects future generations, can be passed by less than a majority or employing something as dangerous as "Deeming" is what we expect to hear from leaders in Venezuela or North Korea; certainly not the United States. Today it is Democrats and healthcare. It will pass after two months of dangerous, corrupt procedures. Who can be proud of what happened in Nebraska, Louisianna, or Florida? And our Presidents behavior during all of this? Yet tomorrow, it may be Republicans or a third party in power, pursuing the principle of "Deeming" for something that eliminates a broad slate of freedoms we all can agree are sacrosanct. If we allow it to happen once, you cannot stop it from happening again. No American citizen, Republican or Democrat should be proud of what has happened with healthcare. Because, in the final analysis, we lost OUR power when Congress demonstrated the willingness to pass a bill at all costs, regardless of public opinion. We The People? Not anymore. We gave it up.

Posted by: donchew1 | March 18, 2010 6:33 PM | Report abuse

If only Republicans worked this hard to solve problems. Is there any possiblity of getting them to work for us?

Posted by: NewThoughts | March 18, 2010 6:29 PM | Report abuse

>>WE, the American people, hereby DEEM that each and every loony-left d-crat socialist running for office and/or for re-election in the Nov 2010 elections is DEFEATED so no voting is necessary.

Posted by: TeaPartyPatriot | March 18, 2010 6:06 PM

Bravo!

Posted by: grannysunni | March 18, 2010 6:24 PM | Report abuse

I DONT UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE WANT THIS BILL PASSED ,BUT DONT KNOW WHATS IN IT.THIS SOUNDS PRETTY CRAZY TO ME. WE WOULD NOT VOTE FOR ANYTHING LIKE THIS IN AUST. WE LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE LAW IS AND WE DONT TRUST OUR POLITICIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL THE SAME THE WORLD OVER.

Posted by: captgrumpy | March 18, 2010 6:22 PM | Report abuse

As long as Deem and Pass has been used for past bills, and in those instances Deem and Pass was legal, then, Deem-it! Let's Pass the Healthcare Bill and move on to other work of the people.

Posted by: silverfish1 | March 18, 2010 6:19 PM | Report abuse

European socialist states is bankrupt and rely on the USA for funding."
______________________________________________________________________________________

And the US owes a great, GREAT, GREAT amount of debt to China....so who's the real "super power"??

Posted by: massmedia77 |

Our foreign aid budget is 1/10th of ONE percent of the Federal budget. The biggest recipients are Israel, Eygpt, and Iraq. We subsize NO ONE in the EEC. From what planet do you receive news broadcasts?

Good point mass media77--it amounts to about 3.4 percent of the budget, and grows every year. Before the government starts a budget for the year, there is a structural 330 billion dollar debt. Since Republican Administrations are responsible for 11 of the current 13 trillion in debt, who should we blame for that? OOPS, the Republicans--the guys with the "who me?" look on their faces, and the hypocritical cries of 'fiscal responsibility" on their lips....

Posted by: bklyndan22 | March 18, 2010 6:12 PM | Report abuse

massmedia77...hellooo wake up and smell the roses fool...who is the one who is working for the union bosses...who by the way are not exactly honest citizens...who bailed out the banks and wall street...I believe your Obama is the answer to those questions...so do not point fingers with a crooked hand at the republicans when the dems are the ones doing all the things you are blaming the republicans for doing. If the bill is so good then why does Obama have to twist arms chicago style and make sneaky deals behind closed doors to get his own people to vote yes...yup there is a fool born every minute..and you are living proof of that.

Posted by: b_tamargo | March 18, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

WE, the American people, hereby DEEM that each and every loony-left d-crat socialist running for office and/or for re-election in the Nov 2010 elections is DEFEATED so no voting is necessary.

Posted by: TeaPartyPatriot | March 18, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

CHICAGO -- A woman feared she'd never see her young child again unless she complied with her husband's scheme to sell her sexual services on Craigslist, authorities said Wednesday.

-----------------------
-----------------------

Anyone doubt this is a conservative husband with white male syndrome?

Posted by: swatkins1 | March 18, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Shove it down their stupid republican throats. They can all go (what Cheney said!)....

Posted by: TOMHERE | March 18, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Its amazing how Obamas administration can break laws and break the rulls but when the gop does something that is legal...they come out looking like they are cheating and lying. I am sick of the news agencies jumping on Obamas bandwagon even when they know he is a crook, that includes the Post...you all still get that tingle up your legs and its time to get your heads out of the clouds or better yet out of Obamas butt and print the truth even if it is against your idol Obama.

Posted by: b_tamargo | March 18, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

"Do the research. It was never used to enact costly legislation. It was used to raise the debt ceiling and other financial matters. But hey go ahead. You will be out of power soon and Republicans will use the same tactics against you once were back in power. We will then hear the idiot left crying about that process. So again, go ahead with your radical agenda and be prepared for vengance coming your way"

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

OooooooOOOOOoooooooooo....here come's that Republican vengeance, more terrorists attacks on US Soil, more wars, more war profiteering, empowering bankers, Wall Street and large corporations to further sell off American jobs and American land to foreign entities, more of the same ole Ronald Reagan, Dick Cheney, George Bush bullcrap...and let's throw Sarah Palin and the Tea Baggers in for the topper.

Man, I can't wait for that Good Ole Boy, 3rd grade education, "what's wrong wit humpin your cousins?", Republican Vengeance.

Posted by: massmedia77 | March 18, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

If this bill makes it through using Deem and Pass, you can bet your bottom dollar this process will be brought before the Supreme Court for its constitutionality. And given that Obama has already pissed off the Court, the chance of Deem and Pass being allowed is (NIL). As such, Obama Care will be overturned either by the Supreme Court or when Republicans are elected in a landslide in November and Obama Care is repealed.

Posted by: AlbyVA |


A few salient points:

The House and Senate set their own rules: these are NOT subject to Supreme Court review. In Fact, "deem and pass" was used repeatedly by Republicans when in power, particularly over the 8 years of the Dolt Administration.

Republicans talk about reconciliation as though its the approach of the apocalypse; odd that they never expressed THAT particular sentiment the 16 times (of 22) THEY used it. Including the first of the Bush tax cuts, which needed Cheney's vote to break the tie.

When the bill passes, we will still be light years from a "takeover" by government of health care. Insurance companies will continue to screw as many people as they can get away with. Doctors will still seek specialties where gross overpayment is the norm. Hospitals will be run as private institutions. Not everyone will even HAVE insurance. Sorry, guys, either you don't understand socialism or you like wilful ignorance; can't have both.

It is doubtful in the extreme that Republicans would take over both houses--especially after doing such a lousy job between 1994 and 2008 while they held the House (14 years), and they held both the Senate and the House (6 years), they were voted out because their programs failed: the national debt doubled, they set records for earmarks, corruption and parliamentary slight of hand, put 2 wars and a tax cut for the rich on a credit card, and expanded Medicare benefits that will entail a 7 TRILLION dollar outlay. And even IF the unthinkable happened--they'd still have to override a veto. Dream on MacDuff.

Posted by: bklyndan22 | March 18, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

"European socialist states is bankrupt and rely on the USA for funding."
______________________________________________________________________________________

And the US owes a great, GREAT, GREAT amount of debt to China....so who's the real "super power"??

Posted by: massmedia77 | March 18, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Bye, bye Miss American Pie,
I remember the day the constitution died.
Posted by: Cornell1984 | March 18, 2010 3:22 PM

------------------------------

Despite the assaults by the GOP over the past decade, the Constitution is doing well.

My, how admission standards must have dropped.

aka Cornell 1968

Posted by: stivgdgy | March 18, 2010 5:54 PM | Report abuse

Congress has a 19% approval rating and they believe government run health care is good for America.

A second opinion is coming in November!

Posted by: 2009frank | March 18, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

This won't be the only bill or amendment the Republicans will force a vote on. By the end of the week, a great number of fragile Democrats will be on the record denying a great number of initiatives only to pass a very flawed one through the most deceitful means.

Posted by: cprferry | March 18, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Much ado about nothing. Republicans don't want the bill and are trying to kill it or discredit it and or the process as much as they can to reap the political benefits later if people don't like the results. I wouldn't expect anything less. It's how the process works. All the nonsense about the day the constitution died or undermining the will of the people is just for show. We'll see how this plays out when it passes. Then we'll know. Until then all this is hot air.

Posted by: kchses1 | March 18, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

racerdoc ~ speaking of "homeless" the Russians took over the homeland of the Skolt Sa'ami, then inflicted Russian rural slum housing on them.

The one's in Finland did a little better but there was an attempt to forcibly assimilate them. While doing that the Finns managed to steal all their land and eat all their reindeer.

Sweden was even more brutal and spent most of a century capturing and deporting Sa'ami families to cut trees.

Norway is a tad better, but the Sa'ami are all restricted to the Northernmost reaches.

So, let me ask you, do you approve of the racial relocation and eradication policies of the Scandinavian states?

I sure don't.

We are down to 500 tribe members who speak the ancient language ~ a culture 10,000 years old is being destroyed as we speak in modern Europe, and NONE OF YOU PEOPLE CARE.

So, put it this way, do not attempt to hold the evil Scandinavians up to me as some sort of good example for this country.

Just won't work.

Posted by: muawiyah | March 18, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Stimulus Bill voted in without reading!
Healthcare Bill approved without voting!
Maybe it is good we don't teach Civics anymore!
Certainly the politicians don't need it!

Posted by: thornegp2626 | March 18, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

So, can republicans now use "deem and pass" to impeach Obama come January?

Excuse me, I’m off in search of a Militia...

Posted by: sosueme1 | March 18, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Stick around Barry, everyday you do your numbers go down...


March 18, 2010

Obama's Approval Rating Lowest Yet


PRINCETON, NJ -- President Barack Obama's job approval is the worst of his presidency to date, with 46% of Americans approving and 48% disapproving of the job he is doing as president in the latest Gallup Daily three-day average.


Posted by: jas7751 | March 18, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

If this Healthcare bill passes - America will be no different than the European socialist states. But, hey, that's what the left-wingnuts want. That's the excuse we hear "All other civilized countries have socialized medicine, and so should we". But what these anti-american lefties don't know is that each one of these European socialist states is bankrupt and rely on the USA for funding. Once we go bankrupt (which we will given the spending spree our govt is on), the entire world will be in chaos.
How does if feel to spend your kids and their kids futures, lefties? It pisses me off as it should you.
My advice, buy bullets, they will be worth more than the greenback in the next 5 years.
___________________________

This is the funniest comment I ever heard.

All those needy people in Sweden, Switzerland, Italy and FRANCE are just dying for our foreign aid. And in case you haven't noticed - IT WAS THE GREED OF WALLSTREET (yes america) that sold all those bundled bad loans and mortgages to foreign entities that screwed the world.

ANd when was the last time you saw a person in England, France, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Finland HOMELESS all because by some poor bad luck THEY GOT SICK and lost their homes.

Here is American - THAT HAPPENS and the rest of the world laughs at our stupidity.

They don't spend their money waging war in far off places. THEY TAKE CARE OF THE WORKING PEOPLE - and they are way more CHRISTIAN than the most CHRISTIAN person on the RIGHT.

Posted by: racerdoc | March 18, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Logically if life in the womb has the right to life so too the sick regardless of financial status.

Posted by: Glennp2 | March 18, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

So now the democrats don't even have the guts to have an up or down vote on the bill and the so called constitutional president will do and say anything so his own prestige is saved at the expense of every other democrat who is against this bill. Well, Mr. President you are in fact more guilty than they are for condoning this and worried about your place in history rather than listening to the American people. You will be remembered for the one who worried more about himself than the ones who granted him the office.

Posted by: justmyvoice | March 18, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

If this bill makes it through using Deem and Pass, you can bet your bottom dollar this process will be brought before the Supreme Court for its constitutionality. And given that Obama has already pissed off the Court, the chance of Deem and Pass being allowed is (NIL). As such, Obama Care will be overturned either by the Supreme Court or when Republicans are elected in a landslide in November and Obama Care is repealed.

Posted by: AlbyVA | March 18, 2010 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Sieg Heil!

As an instrument of the state, I will conform. To indicate my submissiveness, a salute, right armed raised upward, shall be the compulsory greeting to Speaker Pelosi, Leader Reid, and Dear Leader Obama and/or if in the presence of any Democratic party member.

Posted by: JAH3 | March 18, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

And where in the Constitution is it written that "costly legislation" follows one set of rules, but other things that the Republicans have passed using the same tactics are allowed?

Posted by: hitpoints | March 18, 2010 5:05 PM | Report abuse

No-bama wrote: It'amazing the ignorance that is so obvious in these comments. If you don't see that the 'Self_Execution" rule is unconsitutional, then you are proabably a HS drop-out and never read the constitution.

====

Well, I'm no drop-out, and I'm reading the Constitution right now. Perhaps you could point out where in the Constitution it states very clear procedures for how bills are "passed". It appears quite vague - it doesn't state "every bill shall have an up-or-down vote", but it does say "Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings".

Posted by: hitpoints | March 18, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Exact Same Style weekend event by US Congress sent HelathCare bill to US Senate in LATE 2009. Several Problems then, US Congress was NOT In session that day/NIGHT & photos show Person with Grey hair, heavy set & Mustache, identified in News Release as US Congressional Sgt at Arms, whom Lost Job (fired) about 6 Years ago. Recently, earlier today, picture on internet with Same Heavy set gray haired & Mustached defunct Sgt at ARMS, with group in US Congress Floor area with Hon Pelosi, Seems that specific BAD guard Knows how to enter US Congress when out of session & Pull Spoof Photo session that becomes foundation for HealthCare bill Moving Bill on in Process, complete Fraud, Public Seems NOT smart Enough to UnderStand Mess has fallen into. terrible Crime, Right in Front of US Public Eyes.
Murder Is NOT Health Care & Prsent Bill Is Harvest of People whom bought BAD Package, NOT HealthCare At ALL. Entertainment Murder In isolated Place called hospitol. Inside Foundation of present HealthCare, Is HATE of Citizens of United States of America Lawyers Are that Way with Others. Whole Lie now called health Care Bill Needs Be Thrown Out, Defeated. Congress Is About To Criminalize HealthCare Process Further than every before. Public Being Duped & Repeat of first events in US Congress in Lat 2009. US CongressPeople Are NOT Above Law.

Signed:PHYSICIAN THOMAS STEWART von DRASHEK M.D.
GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY 1984 to 1989.

Posted by: thomasxstewart1 | March 17, 2010 9:06 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: ThomasStewart1 | March 18, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

President Obama made a similar point in an interview with Fox News Wednesday. ""If people vote yes, whatever form that takes, that is going to be a vote for health-care reform," Obama said. "And I don't think we should pretend otherwise."
================================


Then won't Pelosi allow a simple Up or Down vote? If you have to resort to DEMON PASS to get a Trillion Dollar Health Care Overhaul completed that effects 20% of the nation's economy, then Democrats might as well be Fascist Nazi's overthrowing the Government and instituting their brand of Socialism.

Posted by: AlbyVA | March 18, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

===

Personally, I agree that the Democrats should just vote for the thing and avoid this procedural nonsense. That said, the reason they're doing this is to try and stem the baseless Republican attacks of "you voted for the cornhusker-kickback" although clearly the cornhusker-kickback is not what the congresspeople are REALLY voting for.

Given it's such a political mess anyways, they should skip the deem and pass and just friggin vote.

Posted by: mikem1 | March 18, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

This is not the bill we want.
But it is a bill we need.

The struggle for progress is not easy.
That's why its called struggle.

With this bill our foot is in the door.
It can't be closed.

And then we can get the bill we want.

Posted by: apspa1 | March 18, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

President Obama made a similar point in an interview with Fox News Wednesday. ""If people vote yes, whatever form that takes, that is going to be a vote for health-care reform," Obama said. "And I don't think we should pretend otherwise."
================================


Then won't Pelosi allow a simple Up or Down vote? If you have to resort to DEMON PASS to get a Trillion Dollar Health Care Overhaul completed that effects 20% of the nation's economy, then Democrats might as well be Fascist Nazi's overthrowing the Government and instituting their brand of Socialism.

Posted by: AlbyVA | March 18, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

From the 95th to 98th Congresses (1977-84), there were only eight self-executing rules making up just 1 percent of the 857 total rules granted. However, in Speaker Tip O'Neill's (D-Mass.) final term in the 99th Congress, there were 20 self-executing rules (12 percent). In Rep. Jim Wright's (D-Texas) only full term as Speaker, in the 100th Congress, there were 18 self-executing rules (17 percent). They reached a high point of 30 under Speaker Tom Foley (D-Wash.) during the final Democratic Congress, the 103rd, for 22 percent of all rules.

When Republicans took power in 1995, they soon lost their aversion to self-executing rules and proceeded to set new records under Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.). There were 38 and 52 self-executing rules in the 104th and 105th Congresses (1995-1998), making up 25 percent and 35 percent of all rules, respectively. Under Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) there were 40, 42 and 30 self-executing rules in the 106th, 107th and 108th Congresses (22 percent, 37 percent and 22 percent, respectively). Thus far in the 109th Congress, self-executing rules make up about 16 percent of all rules.

Posted by: motogp46 | March 18, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Dems vote "NO" to an up-or-down vote?

So which is the REAL Party of "NO"?

Posted by: esquire2 | March 18, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Obama and the Democratic Congress were elected to deal with the Republicans. I'm glad to see that they finally "get it" and are doing what they were sent to Washington to do.

Posted by: Andrea_KC | March 18, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

If the Democrats are so in favor in the bill, why are they afraid to vote for it?

Posted by: BT23 | March 18, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

The Dems are such wimps. I hate to belong to a group or anything that doesn't have any backbone. The Republicans have used the 'anti-deem and pass' a few times and now they are crying. They have used 'Reconciliation' but just don't want the Democrats to use it. They say if the Democrats use anything that they don't approve of they are doomed at the polls. Why are the Democrats so stupid to believe that when the Republicans don't believe it themselves. If they thought that was true they sure wouldn't tell it to the Democrats because they want them to be doomed at the polls. McConnell heads one of the poorest states in the country and he has the nerve to not want Healthcare but I understand why because being so poor they already get Medicaid and Medicare and also that great state of Alabama, Mississippi and Georgia. When your poor people are already covered why should you worry about anyone else. It's the Middle class that needs to worry if the Healthcare bill is not passed, if you think you are doing bad now wait until the Healthcare industry really rips you off, you will really cry then.

Posted by: NDx8Bbks | March 18, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Ignorance is not realizing that the Congress sets it own rules of procedure. There is nothing in the Constitution that establishes these rules with respect to exactly how either house is to vote. Indeed, the 2/3 rule that makes the Senate the branch that not only represents a minority of the population but cannot act without a super majority of the minority is not a constitutional rule either. It is a rule made by and enforced by the Senate itself. I am not a high school dropout, in fact I have a Ph.D. in Political Science with one major area being in Public law, including constitutional law. What are your credentials to make these claims "NO-bama" and why don't you use your real name as I do. And by the way your claims about the bankruptcy of all Western European states can only be based on ignorance. It seems that many of you whose only agenda is to dump on President Obama is to cry "ignorance" from a position of clear ignorance. Ignore the facts and accuse others of being ignorant.

Posted by: brucewright | March 18, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Bye, bye Miss American Pie,

I remember the day the constitution died.

Posted by: Cornell1984 | March 18, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

==
Republicans have been using "deem and pass" for years, now suddenly the "constitution died".

Give Me A Break.

Posted by: mikem1 | March 18, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Do the research. It was never used to enact costly legislation. It was used to raise the debt ceiling and other financial matters. But hey go ahead. You will be out of power soon and Republicans will use the same tactics against you once were back in power. We will then hear the idiot left crying about that process. So again, go ahead with your radical agenda and be prepared for vengance coming your way.

Posted by: Cobra2 | March 18, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

====

Anytime Republican hypocrisy (filibusters, "activist judges", states rights, reconciliation, etc, etc) is pointed out, conservatives squeal "but this is different!", and then throw out some lame rationalizations.

In this case, your beloved Republicans have been no strangers to trashing precedent when it suits them (particularly during the Tom DeLay era).

It would be nice to see some integrity from the republicans but I won't hold my breath.

Posted by: mikem1 | March 18, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

So much political babble from our elected officials. The Constitution clearly states how a bill becomes law. "House rules" cannot override the Constitution. That is not rocket science. However, with the two-party system, party agenda has become more important than our Constitution. A few "party leaders" decide what goes into a bill in secret and whether members will see it before voting on it. That suits special interests just fine, but We The People are not represented.

Posted by: allamer1 | March 18, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

pass it already,then next year get some kind of public option.does anyone really believe if this was as bad as rep. want people to believe they would be trying to kill it?truth is they are scared s******s its going to be good for the country and good for the dems.

Posted by: donaldtucker | March 18, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

This just in from Associated Press!

Rush Limbaugh threatened Thursday to swallow 25 Oxies on his show, live, next Monday, if the Obama health care bill is passed this weekend.

In response, House Democrats have been overwhelmed with request to move the vote . . up, to tomorrow!

Posted by: trenda | March 18, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Cry and whine GOP swine. Your crocodile tears are so laughable.

Posted by: joebanks | March 18, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

It'amazing the ignorance that is so obvious in these comments. If you don't see that the 'Self_Execution" rule is unconsitutional, then you are proabably a HS drop-out and never read the constitution. For those who are in favor of big government of any kind, I again charge that you must be a HS drop-out and are ignorant or simply lazy. Lazy because you think the Govt "owes" you for being born into this country. Lazy because you think someone with more should give you their property simply because you have less. If this Healthcare bill passes - America will be no different than the European socialist states. But, hey, that's what the left-wingnuts want. That's the excuse we hear "All other civilized countries have socialized medicine, and so should we". But what these anti-american lefties don't know is that each one of these European socialist states is bankrupt and rely on the USA for funding. Once we go bankrupt (which we will given the spending spree our govt is on), the entire world will be in chaos.
How does if feel to spend your kids and their kids futures, lefties? It pisses me off as it should you.
My advice, buy bullets, they will be worth more than the greenback in the next 5 years.

Posted by: NO-bama | March 18, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Karl Marx said that the people are idiot. I never thought it would happen here, but the lefties have arrived, complete with SEIU brownshirts. Folks, let's please stop this guy before he redistributes again.

Posted by: jhr1 | March 18, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Hey, this is great. The Constitution no longer counts; the laws made pursuant to it no longer count; we are down to the basics ~ raw nature.

Tonight NO MORE MR. NICE GUY.

First, trash pickup. Ain't payin' for it anymore. Bags are just gonna' go into the street IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S NEIGHBORHOOD.

I was thinking maybe Moran, or Canoli ~ one of 'em. Moran probably doesn't care! Canoli ~ he'd go out there and see what he could find.

But, fur shur, they're coming.

AND, parking etiquette. No law, watch out. You take my spot you need new headlights. This place will look like Newark before it's over.

Then there's this business about locked doors ~ Professor up at Harvard gave me an idea ~ just open the door with a crowbar and walk on in ~ tell the cops "Hey, bro, this is my house"!

With no Constitution and no law nobody cares eh.

These Democrats are so incredibly clever ~ but I bet they're not up to the least of the inconveniences the new "lack of order" entails. They'll be crying to their mommies within days.

Posted by: muawiyah | March 18, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Bye, bye Miss American Pie,

I remember the day the constitution died.

Posted by: Cornell1984 | March 18, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

==
Republicans have been using "deem and pass" for years, now suddenly the "constitution died".

Give Me A Break.

Posted by: mikem1 | March 18, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Do the research. It was never used to enact costly legislation. It was used to raise the debt ceiling and other financial matters. But hey go ahead. You will be out of power soon and Republicans will use the same tactics against you once were back in power. We will then hear the idiot left crying about that process. So again, go ahead with your radical agenda and be prepared for vengance coming your way.

Posted by: Cobra2
----------
That's called election. Considering the many variables in the run up to the election that it may possible that the GOP may win or lose a few seat in the process and depends on the candidates campaigning. From many sources I can tell the tactic will backfire on the Republicans in the long run.

Posted by: beeker25 | March 18, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

A tragedy for America and the Constitution.

A narrow (strict) reading of the Constitution exposes this "procedure" to be UN-constitutional.

If Obama signs into law a Bill "not voted on" in both chambers, does he violate his oath of office?

This is the most corrupt and despicable (& dishonest)administration in my lifetime.

Obama makes Nixon look like Mother Theresa.

Posted by: esquire2 | March 18, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

So again, go ahead with your radical agenda and be prepared for vengance coming your way.

Posted by: Cobra2
********************
Yeah, that "thunder" a couple of days ago at the capital was scary...

Posted by: LABC | March 18, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Bye, bye Miss American Pie,

I remember the day the constitution died.

Posted by: Cornell1984
********************
I thought we were going to stop Bush bashing...

:)

Posted by: LABC | March 18, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Republicans are using healthcare insurance reform stalling tactics to get right wing folks to send money.

This is their biggest chance to milk the rwingnuts, christian conservatives & teabaggers for all their money.

Unfortunately, the right wing does not even understand what is happening to them.

Republicans can count - they knew health insurance reform was coming because of the sheer numbers of Democrats voted in in November 2008.

If they negotiate for what they say they want like tort reform,etc. some of their supporters will be against it so they do not try.

They wave their arms and milk their supporters for $$ for what they say they cannot do - which is anything for them. They have convinced the weak minded that they are actually helping them.

Check how much they are getting from insurance companies while a large percentages of their supporters do not have jobs or insurance.

Yet, they beg for money to put on a circus side show while the work of the nation is being done by Democrats.

Posted by: SCVoter | March 18, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

From the 95th to 98th Congresses (1977-84), there were only eight self-executing rules making up just 1 percent of the 857 total rules granted. However, in Speaker Tip O'Neill's (D-Mass.) final term in the 99th Congress, there were 20 self-executing rules (12 percent). In Rep. Jim Wright's (D-Texas) only full term as Speaker, in the 100th Congress, there were 18 self-executing rules (17 percent). They reached a high point of 30 under Speaker Tom Foley (D-Wash.) during the final Democratic Congress, the 103rd, for 22 percent of all rules.

When Republicans took power in 1995, they soon lost their aversion to self-executing rules and proceeded to set new records under Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.). There were 38 and 52 self-executing rules in the 104th and 105th Congresses (1995-1998), making up 25 percent and 35 percent of all rules, respectively. Under Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) there were 40, 42 and 30 self-executing rules in the 106th, 107th and 108th Congresses (22 percent, 37 percent and 22 percent, respectively). Thus far in the 109th Congress, self-executing rules make up about 16 percent of all rules.

Posted by: motogp46 | March 18, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Bye, bye Miss American Pie,

I remember the day the constitution died.

Posted by: Cornell1984 | March 18, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

==
Republicans have been using "deem and pass" for years, now suddenly the "constitution died".

Give Me A Break.

Posted by: mikem1 | March 18, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Do the research. It was never used to enact costly legislation. It was used to raise the debt ceiling and other financial matters. But hey go ahead. You will be out of power soon and Republicans will use the same tactics against you once were back in power. We will then hear the idiot left crying about that process. So again, go ahead with your radical agenda and be prepared for vengance coming your way.

Posted by: Cobra2 | March 18, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Bye, bye Miss American Pie,

I remember the day the constitution died.

Posted by: Cornell1984 | March 18, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

==
Republicans have been using "deem and pass" for years, now suddenly the "constitution died".

Give Me A Break.

Posted by: mikem1 | March 18, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Again, Kratovil proves he is truly a Republican. Frank, halt the pretense and switch parties. We who voted for you as a Democrat deserve a real Democrat to vote for in 2010.

Posted by: richardshaker | March 18, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, who cares? Either health care reform will pass or it will not.

The cornhusker-kickback will never become law - why should we care?

I just don't get why people get so wrapped up in the sideshow. But I'm sure they'll rationalize it somehow.

Posted by: mikem1 | March 18, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Mitch McConnell needs a new dress. His slip is showing. And it looks like frayed crazy lies are being exposed. Get that man a new dress soon.

Posted by: edfunk1 | March 18, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse


The GOP only works for overseas interests, they do not work for America.

Our jobs, the GOP ships them all overseas.

When it comes to the American People, the GOP refuses to do its Constitutional duty, and they think only Iraqis or Israelis should have health care, and the American People have to pay for it.

I can't imagine what, in their sick minds, makes them think we want all of the burden, and none of the benefits.


Posted by: lindalovejones | March 18, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Bye, bye Miss American Pie,

I remember the day the constitution died.

Posted by: Cornell1984 | March 18, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

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