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Posted at 4:03 PM ET, 01/ 9/2011

Jared Loughner's behavior recorded by college classmate in e-mails

By David A. Fahrenthold


(AP Photo/Arizona Daily Star, Mamta Popat)

In early June, Lynda Sorenson, 52, had gone back to community college in Tucson in hopes of getting back on the job market. One of her classes was a basic algebra class--and one of her classmates was Jared Loughner, now identified by authorities as the man who killed six people and critically wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) in a shooting rampage Saturday. Sorenson's e-mails to friends from last summer, provided to the Washington Post, reveal her growing alarm at Loughner's strange and disruptive
behavior in class.


From June 1, the first day of class:
"One day down and nineteen to go. We do have one student in the class who was disruptive today, I'm not certain yet if he was on drugs (as one person surmised) or disturbed. He scares me a bit. The teacher tried to throw him out and he refused to go, so I talked to the teacher afterward. Hopefully he will be out of class very soon, and not come back with an automatic weapon."

From June 10:
"As for me, Thursday means the end to week two of algebra class. It seems to be going by quickly, but then I do have three weeks to go so we'll see how I feel by then. Class isn't dull as we have a seriously disturbed student in the class, and they are trying to figure out how to get rid of him before he does something bad, but on the other hand, until he does something bad, you can't do anything about him. Needless to say, I sit by
the door."

From June 14:
"We have a mentally unstable person in the class that scares the living crap out of me. He is one of those whose picture you see on the news, after he has come into class with an automatic weapon. Everyone interviewed would say, Yeah, he was in my math class and he was really weird. I sit by the door with my purse handy. If you see it on the news one night, know that I got out fast..."

The class's instructor, Ben McGahee, said in an interview Sunday that Loughner had been removed from class in its third or fourth week, because of repeated disruptions.

More from PostPolitics:
-- An interactive timeline and map of the attack and aftermath
-- Loughner may get 'Unabomber' lawyer
-- Sheriff: Gunman 'targeted' Giffords
-- Fed Eye: How often are officials attacked

By David A. Fahrenthold  | January 9, 2011; 4:03 PM ET
Categories:  44 The Obama Presidency  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: House joint caucus conference on security to be held Wednesday
Next: 911 calls: 'I do believe Gabby Giffords was hit' (audio)

Comments

Johnsmith12 (previous post) seemsto have stumbled onto the tribal aspect to news.

If a plane/train/ferry/bus/whatever crashes in a foreign country with substantial loss of life, U.S. news media pick up on the numbers, and maybe names, of Americans on board.

If there’s a fatal traffic crash or other incident in another state, your state’s newspapers emphasize your fellow residents in their report. Otherwise they probably wouldn’t mention it.

In large states, if someone from your community is killed or maimed in a traffic accident hundreds of miles away, it makes your front page.

Same thing goes on in at least some other countries, if not all of them. What’s new?

Did anyone else, perhaps excluding Michael Moore, know that “we” have killed over 10 million Iraqis? Aside from the wildly inflated number (Were there even that many casualties in World War I? Might as well call it 100 million or 10 billion, if we’re going for effect), it’s “we” who did the killing when one sect of Muslims kills another? Or when Islamic murderers from other countries sneak in and massacre the locals?

The idea that 9-year-olds who die in the Middle East were killed by “our complacency” when fiefdoms across that region are swimming in oil revenues, and the tortured logic (using the word charitably) that underlies the rest of this post, suggest it might be beneficial for the poster and society at large if there’s room left in Mr. Loughner’s future hospital ward.

Let’s not blame him, or the Left generally. This is Sarah Palin’s doing – the consequence of her inflammatory, hate-filled rhetoric.

But there’s at least a silver lining. Johnsmith12 didn’t (an oversight, maybe?) blame the death and turmoil and “complacency” on Israel.

Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 12, 2011 1:02 PM | Report abuse

At least he didn't kill millions of people overseas. You'd have to be really crazy to do that...

Since 2003 we've killed over 10 million people in Iraq. Because they're halfway around the world, maybe their tragedies don't matter much...one nine year old's death in Arizona has captured the hearts of the entire country...what about all of the nine year old's we've killed in the Middle East with our complacency?

This terrible tragedy is so small in comparison with the tragedy we've visited on the world...but American's will get so much more worked up over it...oh, the hypocrisy.


Posted by: johnsmith12 | January 12, 2011 6:35 AM | Report abuse

The post by pabrrece and like-minded liberals is what virtually every defender of the Bill of Rights expected –exploitation of tragedy for political ends.

Almost every shooting except those by extreme liberals or their allies excites clamor for ditching the Second Amendment.

Firearm murders and assaults are up only because society itself is fraying so badly. The city of Flint, Michigan, with a population of 110,000 suffered about 85 murders in 2010. The adjacent county (mine), with a population 70,000, typically has only a handful of murders each DECADE – perhaps one each two years, our sheriff says. That’s 1 percent of Flint’s rate, taking population into account.

What causes the gun killings in the US is social pathology, not guns, such as the increase in ILLEGAL immigration, whose rate of criminality and violence much exceeds that of the citizenry, the increase of drug addiction, the growth of violent gangs (the first two fuel the third), the breakdown of family, the meteoric drop of trust in the law enforcement network, and so on.

In truth, enemies of the 2nd Amendment are far less concerned with guns than they are with gun rights. They absolutely know that criminals won’t give up guns, any more than users of illegal drugs have refrained from drug use or dealing. Their interest is in disarming as many law-abiding citizens as possible.

I conclude that gun deaths are relatively unimportant because the propaganda itself is so political. Every time a white male guns down people, the Left goes, well, ballistic. When a favored minority goes on the attack, especially when he targets whites, the story can’t be expunged from news coverage and other reminders quickly enough. Remember the black fellow who pumped lead into dozens of whites on a NYC subway while sparing ethnic minorities? Probably not – the outcry was so brief and subdued.

It’s politics.

What makes the 2nd Amendment so odious in the eyes of the Left?

Opportunity. By playing up the perceived danger of guns, the Left’s best “shot” at breaching the Bill of Rights is the 2nd Amendment. These first 10 amendments were designed as a firewall against unrestrained government power—a barrier to state oppression. The Constitution’s framers regarded the right to bear arms as so critical that it was outweighed only by the sacred protections of the First Amendment. Enemies of the Bill of Rilghts know that emasculating any of the original amendments sets the stage for junking the rest, one by one, in classic domino fashion.

It’s why every dictator’s first exercises of power include silencing the press and disarming the public. The Left wants to still opposition voices in the communications media as much as it wants to disarm us. It wants to nullify other rights too. It’s only a question of opportunity.

The Left’s main target isn’t guns – it’s me and you. And when the entire Bill of Rights is gutted, the Left wants guns to be in its hands – not in ours

Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 12, 2011 1:18 AM | Report abuse

Regardless of his politics, the fact that he gunned these people down just means he's crazy. No political agenda, liberal or conservative, will drive someone to do this. To use this as an example in attacking ANY political philosophy completely ignores the fact that he was OBVIOUSLY insane. To ties this all up in politics just completely misses the point...

Posted by: GraveDancer187 | January 11, 2011 6:49 PM | Report abuse

This is what happens in society when guns are allowed to be purchased so easily.

Why are we even spending so much time reporting on these incidents when they are going to be repeated over and over again. Lets just treat it like a way of life in america. To not repeat the same old argument, this is NOT what our forefathers intended by the 2nd ammendment. THIS IS THE 21ST century.

Posted by: pabrrece | January 11, 2011 5:22 PM | Report abuse

This is what happens in society when guns are allowed to be purchased so easily.

Why are we even spending so much time reporting on these incidents when they are going to be repeated over and over again. Lets just treat it like a ways of life in america. To not repeat the same old argument, this is NOT what our forefathers intended by the 2nd ammendment. THIS IS THE 21ST century.

Posted by: pabrrece | January 11, 2011 5:20 PM | Report abuse

As Posted by: joelweymouthtais in an earlier comment after railing against this guy being a lefty ...


"and the Left will lose.
1. They are the minority.
2. The Conservatives are the ones armed."

Now I'm really confused. I'm guessing he was a conservative because he was armed???

Posted by: cjwagner | January 11, 2011 2:15 PM | Report abuse

I'm never really sure what the FBI tips line should be used for. Would the observations of this student or her instructor and classmates qualify?

https://tips.fbi.gov/

I seriously don't know how society can ensure access to lawful gun ownership and prevent guns being placed in the hands of public safety threats like Loughner. Should psychiatrists be alerting authorities of their psychotic patients? Should neighbours report the parents? Students report their classmates?

What's the answer here? Help me out.

Posted by: igm95 | January 11, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse

BillClay said: "Most of these right-wing posters sound as delusional as Loughner is."

My response-

Truth is hate to those who hate the truth.

Posted by: Lance64A | January 11, 2011 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Hypocrisy has never been more blatant or obvious.

The entire Left seems on fire, condemning supposedly provocative and “extreme” conservative commentary for setting up the Tucson tragedy.

Complaints about the tenor of Tea Party talk comes at a time period marked by such leftist excesses as the following, which were dismissed as acceptable or insignificant:

The infamous but popular “Kill Bush” t-shirts (still listed at this URL:
http://www2.nnseek.com/YOU-CAN-STILL-GET-KILL-BUSH-T-SHIRTs-HERE_sp8.html)

The leftist movie during G.W. Bush’s presidency about his assassination, which garnered praise from leftist theater circles and fed fantasies on both sides of the Atlantic.

Extreme, even threatening, language on the part of hard-core leftists toward Democrats willing to compromise. For example, the Daily Kos last week condemned Rep. Gifford as “dead” to it for eschewing leftist Pelosi radicalism.

Repeated broadcasts during the GWB presidency of spots on hard-core left radio network Air America about assassinating Bush, complete with gunfire sound effects. Air America called it comedy.

Democrats in Congress engaging in remarkably hateful language, such as Rep. Fortney Stark’s complaint on the House floor that GWB liked to send soldiers to their deaths for kicks. The Democratic majority refused to call the remarks unfitting.

The condemnation of Gen. David Petreaus, who turned U.S. fortunes around in Iraq, by MoveOn.org, perhaps the heart and soul, as well as wallet, for U.S. liberalism, as Gen. Betray-Us. (Never mind they stayed mum when B. Obama last year named the same general commander for Afghanistan forces.)

From the start of Bush’s presidency, leftist websites, with the acceptance and even encouragement of well-entrenched fellow idealogues, spouted unsurpassed vitriol toward George Bush and prominent colleagues. The entire Bush family was depicted in the most hateful manner, with elderly Barbara Bush for some reason viewed in imagery so loathesome it can’t be described.

Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby used to close each year with excerpts and descriptions of the most venomous statements and actions by top Left luminaries, from racist insults to threats. Examples might have been along the lines of CBS-TV host Craig Kilborn’s mock call for snipers to take out George Bush or CNN commentator Julianne Malveaux’s serious death wish for a Supreme Court justice.

The Left has “targeted” the Tea Party and other opponents for supposed incendiary and hateful language for a long time while remaining mum about, or supportive of, the types of fulmination described here.

The Tucson shooting is being played for political advantage by the Left. These unbelievably 2-faced protesters are exploiting the tragedy as furiously as they can. Don’t believe that these candidates for the Joseph Goebbels Memorial Award want Rep. Gifford to survive. The greater the tragedy, the more they can milk it for advantage.

Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 11, 2011 12:51 AM | Report abuse

In a nutshell:

"Media with no facts plays politics with tragic shooting"

Listen before you jump to conclusions....

http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/01/10/media-with-no-facts-plays-politics-with-tragic-shooting/

Posted by: apatriot3 | January 10, 2011 10:43 PM | Report abuse

While the media encourages hate by playing the who's to blame game, this lunatic is loving every minute of it. He's been elevated to an "assassin". I know more about him than any of his victims. This is exactly what he wants. Thanks Washington Post.

Posted by: suz-Q | January 10, 2011 8:22 PM | Report abuse

He said on the internet he prefered men. Supposedly his mother is Jewish. If so does that mean we should round up all Jewish homosexuals? lol

Posted by: terribletommy | January 10, 2011 8:20 PM | Report abuse

The Washington Compost longs for a more innocent time when the could ignore movies that depicted Dubya being assassinated,Sarah Palin being hung in effigy etc. Ah yes those were the good old days of innocence and simpler times. After all they must have been otherwise the Compost most certainly would have sounded the bell.Hacks.

Posted by: fe59 | January 10, 2011 7:46 PM | Report abuse

The Washington Compost longs for a more innocent time when the could ignore movies that depicted Dubya being assassinated,Sarah Palin being hung in effigy etc. Ah yes those were the good old days of innocence and simpler times. After all they must have been otherwise the Compost most certainly would have sounded the bell.Hacks.

Posted by: fe59 | January 10, 2011 7:45 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 7:43 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 7:43 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 7:41 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 7:41 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 7:41 PM | Report abuse

He has the same look as Charles Manson.....another mad man that knew nothing about politics!!!

Posted by: chukkalady | January 10, 2011 7:04 PM | Report abuse

He has the same look as Charles Manson.....another mad man that knew nothing about politics!!!

Posted by: chukkalady | January 10, 2011 7:03 PM | Report abuse

"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." ~ Michel de Montaigne

http://911essentials.com

How The 'Problem-Reaction-Solution' Paradigm Works

1. The government creates or exploits a problem then attributes blame to others.

2. The populace react by asking the government for protection and help.

3. The government offers the solution that was planned long before the crisis.

Outcome: Rights and liberties are exchanged for the illusion of protection and help.

Posted by: bee3 | January 10, 2011 6:57 PM | Report abuse

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl.” – Clueless Comarde Barry

Should the DOJ arrest Clueless Comrade Barry for inciting the Marxist lunatic Jared Loughner to violence? Wouldn’t that make at least as much sense as blaming Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh neither of which have ever even been their party’s nominee for much less the actual President of the United States?

The Marxist Democrats could care less about political violence. Remember their take on the obviously jihadist Fort Hood shooter?

No, what the Marxist Democrats really want are multiple laws that prohibit everyone from disputing or disagreeing with any aspect of their Marxist dogma. That is what they mean by transformative change and that is where they want to take America, i.e., all those who disagree need to be silenced… one way or the other… if not by the DHS then by SEIU, The New Black Panthers, La Raza or yet another crazed Marxist assassin.

Ever been to a Marxist Democrat rally? If so, you no doubt saw any number of Useful Idiots wearing T-shirts and other garments and paraphernalia bearing the likeness of the terrorist assassin Che Guevera. This is the party and these are the disciples of political violence not the Republicans, conservatives and libertarians to which they have disingenuously and disgracefully attempted to blame for the violence perpetrated by the Marxist Jared Loughner.

Posted by: LePauvrePapillon | January 10, 2011 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Any idea why Giffords subscribed to shooter's youtube channel? Check out her profile page on youtube...only two subscriptions...one of which is Jared's.

Why hasn't this made the news?

Posted by: englanddg | January 10, 2011 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Inconvenient reality check for all those leftists trying to link the Marxist Jared Laughner with anyone or anything libertarian or conservative:

If Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto are among your favorite books, you are a Marxist. You are certainly not a freedom-loving libertarian or conservative.

The English words “fascist” and “fascism” are derived from the Italian word “Fascisti”, a term coined by the socialist Benito Mussolini to brand his party and his version of Marxism. Hitler was also a Marxist. NAZI is an acronym that stands for National Socialist German Workers Party. Lenin was a Marxist as was Stalin as was Mao as was Obama, Sr. Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez and Clueless Comrade Barry - sharing the dream of his father - are all Marxists.

You can split hairs over the supposed dissimilarities between Marxism, socialism, fascism and communism but they are all distinctions without a difference. In the end, they are all variations of the Marxist concept of collective ownership and all circumvent and ultimately destroy the natural rights of individuals to own property and make their own financial and even personal decisions.

And they never stop there.

Whether it’s a case of power corrupting or simply those in power doing what is required to maintain their oligarchies, Marxists always find it necessary to grant ever greater powers to the State. It is no mere coincidence that the greatest mass murderers in history, Hitler (20 million), Lenin and Stalin (62 million), and Mao (76 million), have all been Marxists.

So is it really all that surprising that the left would immediately and without the slightest hesitation attempt to exploit the violence perpetrated by one of its own for political advantage?

The left has no conscience. They only have a goal. To them, their end justifies all means. They have no need for facts or logic or fairness. They have their illusions. They have their “conscious dreams” and that is all they need to justify anything and everything.

Every article, every blog, every opinion piece that attempts to link the actions of the Marxist Jared Laughner with any libertarian or conservative public figure underscores this point over and over again.

"Tough political rhetoric" used to be known as First Amendment-protected freedom of speech... then the Marxist Democrats lost so many seats in the election of 2010 that there are now fewer Democrats in Congress than at any time since 1948.

So now we all need to "tone down the tough political rhetoric" least other Marxist lunatics take to committing further acts of violence.

Are you starting to understand liberalism yet or do we need to send you back to serve more time in one of those Marxist Indoctrination Centers we euphemistically call public schools?

Posted by: LePauvrePapillon | January 10, 2011 6:53 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Among the fanciful things we read here is the claim that Left is not the Left. Communism is not socialism. Nazi socialism is not socialism. Nazis were right-wingers.

At some point the question must be raised: Whom do you believe? Me or your own eyes and ears?

To dismiss not only Nazi and Communist statements and conduct but their own names (Nazis = National SOCIALISTS; USSR = Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics) is as delusionary as the Tucson shooter must have been during his spree.

Those who have lived under Nazi and Communist oppression haven’t noticed much distinction. The systems have been equally murderous. Sure, Nazis were openly nationalistic; so were Communists where it suited them, from China and Vietnam to current North Korea and Hugo Chavez’s putrefying regime, which seeks to dominate a big chunk of South America. Egypt’s Nasser and Saddam Hussein, who modeled his regime after Stalin’s, could be categorized the same way. Africa has generated Marxist nationalist uprisings for decades. Vladimir Putin is nationalistic and condones no dissent. He allows the veneer of private property but as the spawn of totalitarian Communism, he seizes whatever he likes any time he likes.

Liberals who portray the far right and far left as 2 sides of a coin merely seek to obscure differences. The far Right is bad enough in subjugating people’s interests to its own. But the far Left so lusts for total power that it eagerly erases entire populations if they represent any impediment to their rulers’ sometimes psychotic pretensions to greatness. Incredible suffering always ensues when the far Left consolidates total power.

Whether liberals aspire to turn countries into totalitarian states or are constrained from doing so in a democracy only by electoral necessity can be argued. I can’t remember the last time liberals resisted significant non-military government encroachment, except temporarily when the Right was in charge. Liberals were scandalized by the Patriot Act and similar handovers of power when Bush was president but with few exceptions now blow it off under a liberal administration. By the same token, liberals screamed about the need for a congressional war debate over the initial Gulf War, waged by the senior George Bush, but opposed such debate before Clinton waged war against Serbia.

It’s no accident that Leftist rule is so often characterized by genocide and mass murder. The Left sees everything through a collectivist prism; racism derives from collectivism. The Left isn’t alone in failing to respect individuality and the importance of human rights, but it morphs incredibly easily into a monstrous force that crushes religious, ethnic and other groups with alacrity. The two largest Communist nations massacred more than 100 million people by themselves.

Hopefully we’ll never have a chance to see how far the Left would be willing to go in the United States in dismantling freedom and constitutional government. Hopefully.

Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 10, 2011 6:39 PM | Report abuse

On a side note, do you see how politically correct the police have been forced into becoming? Those great cops who officiated still had to refer to this creep as "the gentleman" and they referred to the brave guys that took him down as "the men" (and of course one woman). This guy is no where close to a gentleman but of course, cops have to watch their backs for every statement these days!

Posted by: rickschlottman | January 10, 2011 6:33 PM | Report abuse

To understand the sick mentality that is pervading the right wing, you need look no further than joelwaymouthtais comments on here:

"I am sorry to say a Civil War now is inevitable and the Left will lose.
1. They are the minority.
2. The Conservatives are the ones armed.
3. The military and the police are predominately Conservative."

Posted by: eric70 | January 10, 2011 6:28 PM | Report abuse

The delusion and falsehood here is that this kid was "motivated" by Palin and other Conservatives. The liberals are the ones in 1 delusional State.
Fact 1. Loughner is a leftist. He is liberal. He was also an occultist - not a Christian
Fact 2: The Daily Kos said about Giffords: "she is dead to me". Two days before the shooting.
Fact 3: He is delusional and paranoid - that may be why he shot her- no other reason - no politics whatsoever.

But these are not stopping liberals from continuing to repeat the lie -

Now why did he try to kill Giffords:

Probably because he is dangerously unbalanced - most likely cause.

BUT
there could be another thought to this

Fact: She was a conservative Democrat that voted against Pelosi for Minority Leader. She was a Blue Dog - and the liberals want them out of the Democratic Party.

Have you wondered if this little thing had ended in Giffords being dead -
1. They would have had a special election - fielded a liberal dem and no one would be able to say anything negative "or they would be inciting violence". That certainly is how "Chicago" politics acts. Many an unruly pol has been murdered. And we do have Chicago style politicians in the White House.

2.They killed a Conservative Judge who now will be replaced by a liberal.

3. The liberals and the media are using this to try to tone done the anger (it won't work - it will get worse now) - because the liberals are blaming the conservatives for this- and conservatives will not accept blame - because they aren't to blame. But it is stirring up the left to an almost mob like mentality.

All of the effects point to a definite advantage to liberals - so if this was planned - it was probably planned by the left. But that is all supposition. This certainly smells like something they would do in Chicago Politics- exactly what we have in the White House.

I believe liberals and the left want violence. They want to provoke a violent outburst and then have the Federal Government "ride" in and shut the conservatives up. Liberals want the conservatives to just let them have their way and shut up. This will not happen - so there is absolutely no way that Liberals and Conservatives can exist peacefully in this country any longer. I am sorry to say a Civil War now is inevitable and the Left will lose.
1. They are the minority.
2. The Conservatives are the ones armed.
3. The military and the police are predominately Conservative.

So what if you have the bureaucrats on your side: they are nothing without muscle.

This is going to end badly.

Posted by: joelweymouthtais | January 10, 2011 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Looks like Uncle Junior from the Sopranos without his glasses in that mugshot. I just hope this doesn't open the door for a Brady Bill on steroids because of the actions of a clear cut lunatic.

Posted by: clayp72 | January 10, 2011 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Looks like Junior Soprano without his glasses. I just hope this loon's actions don't unleash the anti gun nuts to want a Brady Bill on steroids.

Posted by: clayp72 | January 10, 2011 5:57 PM | Report abuse

"Every man sees in his relatives, and especially in his cousins, a series of grotesque caricatures of himself. ~ H. L. Mencken

http://911essentials.com

Posted by: bee3 | January 10, 2011 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Sometime people go bad. Soon we get the blame game and then the do something crown and in the mean time we get the media hype.
This is a good one that passed through the news echo chamber fast.
http://heloise8.wordpress.com/2010/08/03/black-man-shoots-up-white-people-after-being-fired/

Posted by: sdchanman | January 10, 2011 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Those who would try to use such incidents as this to squelch honest and serious political debate are much more dangerous for the future of country than a few scattered murderous nuts.

Posted by: OldSkeptic2 | January 10, 2011 5:37 PM | Report abuse

I am wondering why in the wake of these tragic shootings by a MENTALLY ILL PERSON no one is talking about the need to address the lack of government support to get them on medication and stable. All I see are people wanting to take away the rights we have and not deal with the root cause that is a uninhibited mentally ill person. Take the gun away and the guy could have just gotten a knife. He's crazy remember?

Fact is loved ones cannot take conservatorship of a diagnosed mentally ill person until it can be proven to a judge that they are a harm to themselves or others, have been regularly detained and hospitalized. Basically, something bad has to happen before a sane adult can make decisions for the insane adult. IMO, if someone is diagnosed mentally ill family should be entitled to medical information regardless of privacy law and be able to take conservatorship before something bad happens to someone for certain illnesses.

For more information on the state of mental healthcare in the US visit the National Alliance on Mental Health at nami.org. They have a great report where they rate each state here http://www.nami.org/gtsTemplate09.cfm?Section=Grading_the_States_2009

Posted by: branden-CA | January 10, 2011 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Serious political discussion and debate does not make anybody insane! And it is just ridiculous for anyone to suggest that it does!

Posted by: OldSkeptic2 | January 10, 2011 5:30 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 5:28 PM | Report abuse

There is only one way to stop stuff like this: either lock up or kill every suspected nut.

But if we wish to remain a free, open society we are just going to have to expect an occasional terrible incident such as this.

Posted by: OldSkeptic2 | January 10, 2011 5:17 PM | Report abuse

To Mr Thompson1

You are suffering from a very common disease typically spreading among conservatives in this country. That is an extreme deficiency in distinguishing facts from opinions.

I have spent more that 30 years in communist country and I can attest that the commies had the same disease which eventually eradicated them.

Posted by: britishmu | January 10, 2011 5:08 PM | Report abuse

britishmu:

"It is perfectly clear that this person is mentally ill the same as are 80% of those voting Republican."

BWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAHHHH!!!!

Good one, shmu. Very erudite. You put those baby-killing Repubs in their place.

Ahhh.. wait...

You aren't kidding... tell me isn't so....

Well, you certainly scotched your membership in the Young KOS Klub... we were going to fast-track you, but, now...well... this is going to take some serious consideration.

I should have suspected something was up by your grammatical errors... definitely right wing. Almost Palinesque...

We'll get back to you. Better hide that copy of "We The Living."

-

Posted by: tomas57 | January 10, 2011 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Most of these right-wing posters sound as delusional as Loughner is.

Posted by: BillClay | January 10, 2011 4:51 PM | Report abuse

In reading Hindu and Buddhist theology, we find a multi-century concern for human awareness and behavior that far exceeds what we in the Western world are exposed to. The Buddha pointed out that the "difference" between neighbors, be it individuals or nations, resides in ones "level of consciousness."

A quick review of the comments posted here (and all across the Internet) confirm this fundamental reality. The Greeks also knew that 90% (or more) of those living in any time and place were one dimensional sheep under the control of random prevailing conditioning, not guided by reasoned deductive logic.

Thus a vast majority of Comments (responses) are driven by rampant emotion, with fear being a core motivator. One might think many responders exist in the Dark Ages, madly posting from the depths of a cold, damp cave. A harsh reality is that every time and place in history displays a full range of human behaviors, each being far more deeply rooted than the superficial, ever fleeting nature of contemporary political, social or theological perspectives.

The harsh truth is we were born into an unenlightened dimension which begins at zero awareness and far too often remains close to that point right up to the moment of physical demise.

Consider the advantages of thinking BIGGER! That is, viewing life from a higher ground rather than a flood plane. In so doing one grows to realize that duality on all levels(liberal vs conservative, etc.) is an illusion and thus a very dangerous trap.

Expanded consciousness by way of taking in the nature of our common needs and bonds, is the only source of hope. It is the only factual path to peace, both internal and external. It is not a world view someone or something else can do for you ... no government or god ... this is your job!! Be well.

Posted by: Disgusted123 | January 10, 2011 4:48 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 4:44 PM | Report abuse

When Einstein was asked by the reporter "What will come of your theory of relativity?" Einstein replied,

"In the event that my theory is proven to be true, the French will call me a Jew, and the Germans will call me a German"

"If my the theory is proven false, the French will call me a German, and the Germans will call me a Jew".

--------------------

Let's paraphrase this forgoing brilliant insight into the greater political context that exists today.

Now, this is from the liberal perspective (keep in mind that liberalism is a mental disorder so the illogic and deception outlined below is easily practiced by those with this affliction) ----

"If our Nazi / fascist socialist brothers succeed in their work and the evidence of their slight excesses can be obscured, then we will call them socialists. If the Nazis fail in their work and their excesses are disclosed, then we will call them Christian capitalists."

The liberal further argues -----

"If our Soviet socialist brothers succeed in their work and we are able to deny their little excesses, we will call them socialists. If it becomes impossible to hide and obfuscate their dirty work, then let's distance our socialist selves from them and instead say they were not true to the ideology."


The evil cultivated in people wants to be justified. Above are the kinds of mental contortions common to that cause.

Don't be fooled by what you've been taught and conditioned to believe. Use your common sense and know the truth from lies.

Socialism / Marxism / Fascism / Nazism / communism / liberalism, et al, all emerge from the same leftist ideological sewer, and embody the same tyrannical ways and means, and result in the same murderous outcomes.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 10, 2011 4:40 PM | Report abuse

When Einstein was asked by the reporter "What will come of your theory of relativity?" Einstein replied,

"In the event that my is proven to be true, the French will call me a Jew, and the Germans will call me a German"

"If my the theory is proven false, the French will call me a German, and the Germans will call me a Jew".

--------------------

Let's paraphrase this forgoing brilliant insight into the greater political context that exists today.

Now, this is from the liberal perspective (keep in mind that liberalism is a mental disorder so the illogic and deception outlined below is easily practiced by those with this affliction) ----

"If our Nazi / fascist socialist brothers succeed in their work and the evidence of their slight excesses can be obscured, then we will call them socialists. If the Nazis fail in their work and their excesses are disclosed, then we will call them Christian capitalists."

The liberal further argues -----

"If our Soviet socialist brothers succeed in their work and we are able to deny their little excesses, we will call them socialists. If it becomes impossible to hide and obfuscate their dirty work, then let's distance our socialist selves from them and instead say they were not true to the ideology."


The evil cultivated in people wants to be justified. Above are the kinds of mental contortions common to that cause.

Don't be fooled by what you've been taught and conditioned to believe. Use your common sense and know the truth from lies.

Socialism / Marxism / Fascism / Nazism / communism / liberalism, et al, all emerge from the same leftist ideological sewer, and embody the same tyrannical ways and means, and result in the same murderous outcomes.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 10, 2011 4:32 PM | Report abuse

It is perfectly clear that this person is mentally ill the same as are 80% of those voting Republican.

Posted by: britishmu | January 10, 2011 4:25 PM | Report abuse

This thread has featured a lively exchange about what spot on the idealogical spectrum Mr. Loughner occupies. Both sides have made good and bad points, but they’re probably irrelevant.

What reporting has made most obvious is the subject’s seemingly tenuous grip on reality. Those who have seen schizophrenia close up know the sufferer tends to be oblivious to the obvious, instead perceiving the world through an irrational prism that a sane person cannot understand, let alone debate over. This person is apt to become obsessed with what appears to be meaningless, such as colors and real or imaginary sounds. He/she may well believe him/herself to be a god, the God or some other real or imagined force or a being, living or dead. The diseased person filters thought through some disconnected internal logic or experience, not on the basis of blogs or political speeches. Anne Hecht developed her own language. There is little predictability in how the pathology will develop. Cleaning up external rhetoric levels isn’t the way to influence this person.

So the current finger pointing is pointless (pun not intended) in one sense, but it’s very significant in another. The Right often seizes on incidents like this to score rhetorical points (again, not intended). The Left seizes on them to attain power.

The Left is always scanning for opportunities to expand its power. It chips away nonstop at the Second Amendment. It works behind the scenes to muffle talk radio by mandating government-controlled “balance” in the flow of opinion (shades of Goebbels). Don’t bother scoffing; leftist idealogues have declared their intent. Internet regulation has been proposed, and the Left is slowing accruing the tools to do just that. Within recent days, Obama’s FCC has by fiat asserted the right to regulate the ‘Net – a power Congress had overwhelmingly voted to deny them – and is planning measures that could expedite a federal takeover some day.

Where the Left is dominant, free expression is discouraged or prohibited. Exhibit One is college campuses, where conservatives are physically attacked or through other means prohibited from giving talks, while millions of dollars of tuition funds are spent to attract leftist speakers. Students at the University of Michigan had to go to court to force the college administration not to censor them. Conservatives have been forced to abort speeches at Michigan State University because of leftist unruliness.

News media critics knew instinctively the whelmingly leftist mainstream outlets would tie the alleged perp in the Tucson shooting to the Right, either through manufactured evidence (remember Dan Rather) or subtle suggestion. It’s not a secret plot, mind you, but how the Left typically operates.

So the Left can be seen on the offensive here, seeking opportunity to futher the cause of expanding the reach of government. The right is fighting a defensive battle. The crime itself was incidental to the political struggle.

Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 10, 2011 4:22 PM | Report abuse

It bears repeating, notwithstanding misleading reference books sitting on shelves written by apologists for the socialist cause:

Hitler was a pagan and a socialist who hated capitalism and free enterprise, read his book Mein Kampf to verify this fact.

Get the DVD "The Soviet Story" to help educate yourselves about the socialist brothers, Hitler and Stalin of the 1930's and 1940's.

Also see this recent article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341272/Hitlers-Christmas-party-Rare-photographs-capture-leading-Nazis-celebrating-1941.html

Nazi is an abbreviation for "National Socialist Workers Party".

Fascism is a term created by the Marxist Benito Mussolini. He was one of Hitler's fellow leftists.

Fascism is a compound word wherein Mussolini joined the ancient Latin word fascis, with Marxism.

Marxism is of course the basis for modern day socialism, and fascis means "bundle of rods" -- a symbol of statist power. All together a decidedly leftist approach to government.

Reality check--- no conservative is a socialist. Conservatives are by nature and common sense against socialism and all such leftist ideologies and murderous ways.

Leftists properly should claim Hitler as one of their own along with the other prominent mass murders of that past 100 years -- Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, among many others too numerous to name.

The death toll in only the last 80 years exceeds 150 million murdered, in the name of that leftist ideology and those values.

It appears Jared Lee Loughner is among those with leftist motivations wanting to change the world. The congresswomen who was shot, Loughner said, was not left enough.

Leftists would be wise to wake up and honestly examine their history and thereby become aware of what horror their politics and ideology manifests in the world. This horror is a repeated pattern and not difficult to identify, even in its earliest stages.

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 10, 2011 4:18 PM | Report abuse

In trying to exploit this tragedy the Left is slitting their oun wrist.There is not one iota of evident this maniac had ANY political motivations . He's a warped out of his mind sicko. His rants follow NO LOGICAL pattern, he's left , right and all over the place. The sick people thinking this is ok , to USE this situation to make political hay , are beyond repulsion.
Reasonable people see the transparency of the left over this more than any other situation. You're tolling the death knell of your radical , leftist politics. You guys have really shown what you are to america. What a disgrace the Democratic Party has become. Vile and rude at best.
If Obama had an ounce of leadership skills he'd warn people NOT to try to blame the actions of a madman on ANYONE .

Posted by: omstrat | January 10, 2011 4:07 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 3:52 PM | Report abuse

This article describes a great dilemma in our justice (or lack of it) system. The notion is preemptive premption. In all cases that I can recall, the "crazy shooters" were all pegged as nuts by people with whom they had tangential but regular contact. Paranoia-schitzophenia has been a diagnosable mental illness for maybe a century and is the most destructive to other people. If drug testing is legal, why not psychological testing at the point of employment or admission to an educational institution in order to insure treatment before the afflicted can choose a target.

Posted by: owen1 | January 10, 2011 3:36 PM | Report abuse

The political spectrum isn't linear, it is circular. The far right and the far left, seemingly opposite from one another, are actually right next to each other. The philosophy favoring liberty and limited government (conservatism) is at the far side of the circle from the aforementioned other two.

Posted by: dktampa | January 10, 2011 3:19 PM | Report abuse

AnneKerns said: " No, they don't all result in the same thing. I don't know that at all. (Socialism, Marxism, Communism)"

Sure they do. In those systems, there are the 'elites', then everyone else. The Govt (elites) exerts more amd more control over your life (UK, Cuba, Russia). Privately-owned weapons are banned/confiscated (Australia, UK, Nazi Germany). Your quality of life is greatly reduced (Russia). The state pushes for more and more control of the populace (China, Venezuela). Taxes are insanely high (Denmark). You are locked in (old E Germany, Cuba). Military dictators control the Govt (Venezuela, Cuba). Govt-run health care is sub-standard (Cuba, UK, Canada). Political correctness takes the place of common sense (EU, , Canada, UK).

AnneKerns, there are differences in socialism/marxism/communism from place to place, but the results are the same. A loss of freedom of religion, individualism, freedom of speech, free markets and personal liberties. Communists hate the US Constitution because it limits power of the Govt and gives power to the individual. A perfect example is Democrats balking and whining about reading the US Constitution on the House floor last week.

Posted by: Lance64A | January 10, 2011 3:10 PM | Report abuse

back at: notamuslim

I see you jump to conclusions very easily comrade, making things up because you are to lazy to check anything out before you patheticize them.

Our government has and does develop and use such programs, I guess congressional hearings are held just for fun and the CIA destroys records they are ordered by congress and Federal Judges to turn over because there is nothing to hide in them.

Where you get that I think all people in the US Government are evil mind controlling monsters by reading my post is beyond me, I have worked in many agencies of the US Government and think no such thing, in fact I am a US Government retiree.

Everything I stated as "FACT" has been proven, and you displayed a lot about yourself in your post my fellow citizen.

I always think critically before posting anything on net for all to see, you do not.

Why would a federal judge find cause to allow the VVA (a Congressionally chartered organization) to file a lawsuit against the CIA if there is nothing to cover up?
The CIA does not want people to know what it did, especially those it did it to.
See link below:

http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfjan09/jan09files/Edgewood_Complaint%20.pdf

You do not know anything about me, saying things like the 40 year old mothers basement dweller and 13 locks as well as pathetic and nutjob only anger people, look in the mirror when you say these things and make a commitment to change.

Best regards Comrade.

Posted by: realisticparanoia | January 10, 2011 3:01 PM | Report abuse

back at: notamuslim

I see you jump to conclusions very easily comrade, making things up because you are to lazy to check anything out before you patheticize them.

Our government has and does develop and use such programs, I guess congressional hearings are held just for fun and the CIA destroys records they are ordered by congress and Federal Judges to turn over because there is nothing to hide in them.

Where you get that I think all people in the US Government are evil mind controlling monsters by reading my post is beyond me, I have worked in many agencies of the US Government and think no such thing, in fact I am a US Government retiree.

Everything I stated as "FACT" has been proven, and you displayed a lot about yourself in your post my fellow citizen.

I always think critically before posting anything on net for all to see, you do not.

Why would a federal judge find cause to allow the VVA (a Congressionally chartered organization) to file a lawsuit against the CIA if there is nothing to cover up?
The CIA does not want people to know what it did, especially those it did it to.
See link below:

http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfjan09/jan09files/Edgewood_Complaint%20.pdf

You do not know anything about me, saying things like the 40 year old mothers basement dweller and 13 locks as well as pathetic and nutjob only anger people, look in the mirror when you say these things and make a commitment to change.

Best regards Comrade.

Posted by: realisticparanoia | January 10, 2011 2:57 PM | Report abuse

@AnneKerns

Thank you for the clarification. You are on a crusade to prove your superior knowledge of the distinctions between totalitarian regimes and to announce your intellectual prowess.

Yet there is an offensive tone to your comments. It is indeed a pleasure to read a well thought out and reasonable statement by a gifted and highly educated writer. This is inconsistent with the image you attempt to project.

You have wiggled out of declaring your political beliefs, regarding your obsession with Nazism, Socialism, etc.

Thank you for the clarification and the condescending lecture regarding dictionaries, like that big dictionary that you dream about all the time.

Please grace this page with your superior intellectual analysis of this document. Does it agree or disagree with that big dictionary that you love so well. Do the facts agree and if not which is right?

http://www.defendthefamily.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/html/the_pinkswastika_4th_edition_-_final.htm


Posted by: cadgbd | January 10, 2011 2:56 PM | Report abuse

back at: notamuslim

I see you jump to conclusions very easily comrade, making things up because you are to lazy to check anything out before you patheticize them.

Our government has and does develop and use such programs, I guess congressional hearings are held just for fun and the CIA destroys records they are ordered by congress and Federal Judges to turn over because there is nothing to hide in them.

Where you get that I think all people in the US Government are evil mind controlling monsters by reading my post is beyond me, I have worked in many agencies of the US Government and think no such thing, in fact I am a US Government retiree.

Everything I stated as "FACT" has been proven, and you displayed a lot about yourself in your post my fellow citizen.

I always think critically before posting anything on net for all to see, you do not.

Why would a federal judge find cause to allow the VVA (a Congressionally chartered organization) to file a lawsuit against the CIA if there is nothing to cover up?
The CIA does not want people to know what it did, especially those it did it to.
See link below:

http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfjan09/jan09files/Edgewood_Complaint%20.pdf

You do not know anything about me, saying things like the 40 year old mothers basement dweller and 13 locks as well as pathetic and nutjob only anger people, look in the mirror when you say these things and make a commitment to change.

Best regards Comrade.

Posted by: realisticparanoia | January 10, 2011 2:54 PM | Report abuse

back at: notamuslim

I see you jump to conclusions very easily comrade, making things up because you are to lazy to check anything out before you patheticize them.

Our government has and does develop and use such programs, I guess congressional hearings are held just for fun and the CIA destroys records they are ordered by congress and Federal Judges to turn over because there is nothing to hide in them.

Where you get that I think all people in the US Government are evil mind controlling monsters by reading my post is beyond me, I have worked in many agencies of the US Government and think no such thing, in fact I am a US Government retiree.

Everything I stated as "FACT" has been proven, and you displayed a lot about yourself in your post my fellow citizen.

I always think critically before posting anything on net for all to see, you do not.

Why would a federal judge find cause to allow the VVA (a Congressionally chartered organization) to file a lawsuit against the CIA if there is nothing to cover up?
The CIA does not want people to know what it did, especially those it did it to.
See link below:

http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfjan09/jan09files/Edgewood_Complaint%20.pdf

You do not know anything about me, saying things like the 40 year old mothers basement dweller and 13 locks as well as pathetic and nutjob only anger people, look in the mirror when you say these things and make a commitment to change.

Best regards Comrade.

Posted by: realisticparanoia | January 10, 2011 2:52 PM | Report abuse

back at: notamuslim

I see you jump to conclusions very easily comrade, making things up because you are to lazy to check anything out before you patheticize them.

Our government has and does develop and use such programs, I guess congressional hearings are held just for fun and the CIA destroys records they are ordered by congress and Federal Judges to turn over because there is nothing to hide in them.

Where you get that I think all people in the US Government are evil mind controlling monsters by reading my post is beyond me, I have worked in many agencies of the US Government and think no such thing, in fact I am a US Government retiree.

Everything I stated as "FACT" has been proven, and you displayed a lot about yourself in your post my fellow citizen.

I always think critically before posting anything on net for all to see, you do not.

Why would a federal judge find cause to allow the VVA (a Congressionally chartered organization) to file a lawsuit against the CIA if there is nothing to cover up?
The CIA does not want people to know what it did, especially those it did it to.
See link below:

http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfjan09/jan09files/Edgewood_Complaint%20.pdf

You do not know anything about me, saying things like the 40 year old mothers basement dweller and 13 locks as well as pathetic and nutjob only anger people, look in the mirror when you say these things and make a commitment to change.

Best regards Comrade.

Posted by: realisticparanoia | January 10, 2011 2:49 PM | Report abuse

back at: notamuslim

I see you jump to conclusions very easily comrade, making things up because you are to lazy to check anything out before you patheticize them.

Our government has and does develop and use such programs, I guess congressional hearings are held just for fun and the CIA destroys records they are ordered by congress and Federal Judges to turn over because there is nothing to hide in them.

Where you get that I think all people in the US Government are evil mind controlling monsters by reading my post is beyond me, I have worked in many agencies of the US Government and think no such thing, in fact I am a US Government retiree.

Everything I stated as "FACT" has been proven, and you displayed a lot about yourself in your post my fellow citizen.

I always think critically before posting anything on net for all to see, you do not.

Why would a federal judge find cause to allow the VVA (a Congressionally chartered organization) to file a lawsuit against the CIA if there is nothing to cover up?
The CIA does not want people to know what it did, especially those it did it to.
See link below:

http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfjan09/jan09files/Edgewood_Complaint%20.pdf

You do not know anything about me, saying things like the 40 year old mothers basement dweller and 13 locks as well as pathetic and nutjob only anger people, look in the mirror when you say these things and make a commitment to change.

Best regards Comrade.

Posted by: realisticparanoia | January 10, 2011 2:48 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 2:41 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 2:40 PM | Report abuse

This blog has helped by defining the right as nationalism and the left as anti-nationalism or globalism?

After watching a TLC documentary on ancient music this rings a bell. The history of western classical music is a study of history.

The Catholic church sings Italian and Latin containing lots of long vowels. The German language has lots of sharp consanants. German language and thought is different than Italian and the melody of the languages are different. The Reformation in this sense was a type of Nationalism. Different peoples sang their own songs and wrote their books in their native languages.

Another type of Nationalism in music was by composers such as Chopin who dared to show pride in their heritage. This was taboo in countries occupied by foreign powers.

This fascinating study of music history can be traced through the French Revolution, etc.

The terms "liberal" and "Conservative" are more difficult because what was liberal is now conservative. Liberals who voted in "change" are the new conservatives.

One thing is clear. Humans have been at this since the dawn of time. There is no cure for human nature. The best laid plans of mice and men result in tragedy. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Some of us would just be happy with the ability to earn a living and live a peaceful existence. We would not care about blogging or politics.

Humanity has it's dark side. Evil exists. You can see it in the intolerant remarks here there and everywhere. Young minds can be mold into anything. That is why the adults who have become wise and cynical are systematically destroyed. This is very common in socialistic/communistic societies.

Just for a reality check read about how the cruelty in Bosnia even shocked the Nazi SS. Large bags of leached-out eyeballs. Genocide of the most horrific kind. Nothing new this has been standard since the dawn of time.

This is why I implore on these blogs for people to think critically and study history and don't take any wooden nickels.

We are blessed to live in this time. Just a few years ago slavery was legal (whites were slaves too), people were publicly burned or torn to pieces, their families raped and sold before their eyes.

Much blood has been shed and sacrifice made to arrive at the American constitution. Relatively speaking we are very lucky andd never had it so good in this era with the Constitution. Why destroy it? Once it is gone it is gone. There is no guarantee that if America goes totalitarian that there will ever be freedom again. Think carefully about what you say, why you say it, and why you believe it. Your future and that of your decedents rides on the balance.

Posted by: cadgbd | January 10, 2011 2:26 PM | Report abuse

@ cadgbd:
My full sentence, if you're going to quote it, was: "I cannot believe that reasonable people think socialism, marxism, fascism, and communism are all the same thing."

My point is simply that they are not the same thing. And comments that lump them all together cannot be taken seriously by reasonable people, in my opinion.

I'm sorry if my diction offends you; I was just trying to be clear.

I'm also advocating that when one doesn't know something, it's okay to look it up, and learn about it. Dictionaries and encyclopedias are not such bad things. I had to pull it off the bookshelf, I don't look at it all the time.

@ Lance64A: No, they don't all result in the same thing. I don't know that at all.

@ bloodypest: I can agree with you that we all have brains. That is all. I will not resort to calling you names back.

@ pumpfu37: Thank you.

---
Well, I have to get back to my business right about now. This conversation is pointless and I have capitalism to engage in. Seriously.

Cheers! Have a nice day, y'all!

Posted by: AnneKerns | January 10, 2011 2:20 PM | Report abuse

@AnneKerns
Thank you so much for your perception on this event and the reaction of some of the people who have made comments on this article. Your sense of reason and patient guard for evidence is a refreshing sight.

Posted by: pumpfu37 | January 10, 2011 2:13 PM | Report abuse

annakerns said:
"As a human being with a brain and an encyclopedia of political science 5-volume set sitting on my desk, I'd like to add some clarity to the matter.

See my previous post, quoting an expert in the subject, on the definition and and regime examples of fascism, which is an "ultranationalist totalitarianism of the extreme right.""
Just for your info Miss Panty-waist, all of us have brains, and not all of us are foolish enough to quote left-wing sources as the ultimate authority on what is left wing and what is right.
What is obvious is that you and your comrades do use the Nazi epithet as often as you think you can get away with it to descibe what has been normal policy for most of the History of this great country.

To most of us Sara Palin types, National Socialist extermination camps, are the same as Soviet Socialist extermination camps, the same as Chinese Socialist extermination camps, the same as Khmer Rouge Socialist mass murder, the same as Ho Chi Min Socialist murder in Vietnam,a control freak is a control freak in any system. We have plenty of you right here in the US controlling our eating, drinking, smoking, traveling, education, media,working,taxing, what we can say, when we can pray, etc.. And most Socialists are Atheists. Their god is the State.
Their god has feet of clay,but legs of iron.
Tell me what the difference is to a common sense man/woman between Hitler,Mao,Pol Pot, Che Guevara, Fidel Castro,Stalin,Ho Chi Min,Ahmadinajad and other psychopathic monsters who used state control in the name of socialism for their murdering ways.

Posted by: bloodypest | January 10, 2011 2:02 PM | Report abuse

I actually heard the liberal press call this idiot a tea-bagger before they found out he is a registered Demoncrat. You cannot have security for everyone. There is no money left in the till.

Posted by: JoeHoliday | January 10, 2011 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Lynda Sorenson has the "smoking gun", and the defense is going to have a tough time disputing this. If this were Lynda's place of employment (private), security would have been called -along with the police- and he would have been gone. On a college campus -this gives me the same shudders as when the Virginia Tech college professor had expressed her concerns about HER student..and they went into the academic/ legal hole.

This is not attributed to ANY political, ethnic, racial, social party, and we need to stop giving any such group that level of perceived power. This was 100% human. If Loughner was like this in college, there were hints WAY before then.

Posted by: mukazzi | January 10, 2011 1:59 PM | Report abuse

AnneKerns said : "I cannot believe that reasonable people think socialism, marxism, fascism, and communism are all the same thing. Which leads me to the conclusion that my plea for reason will be drowned out here."

Well AnneKerns, socialism is a nice way of saying marxism, which is a nice way of saying communism. They all result in the same thing. Don't you know that???


Posted by: Lance64A | January 10, 2011 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Why didn't local police know more ? Or did they? Sounds like the Sheriff failed.

Posted by: dencal26 | January 10, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Why didn't local police know more ? Or did they? Sounds like the Sheriff failed.

Posted by: dencal26 | January 10, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Forget Rush and CNN, get the best take anywhere on the Tucson shooting at: www.cashbeechcroft.podomatic.com

Great podcast from an up and comer.

Posted by: Roger9 | January 10, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Why didn't local police know more ? Or did they? Sounds like the Sheriff failed.

Posted by: dencal26 | January 10, 2011 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Anne Kerns:

"socialism, marxism, fascism, and communism are all the same thing"

But they result in the same type of destruction.

What is your point? Are you a socialist, marxist, fascist, or communist?

Are you defending one of the above, or are you boosting your ego with superior diction, or your big book socialism, marxism, fascism, and communism, sitting on your desk that you stare at all the time.

Please enlighten the lesser mortals. What exactly is your point?

Posted by: cadgbd | January 10, 2011 1:37 PM | Report abuse

All those that are blaming these killings on a particular political belief, left or right, have their heads up their rears and are using it as an excuse to fulfill their own political agendas. The individual who committed this horrible act was an extremely mentally disturbed, paranoid individual, to the point of being disruptive, incoherent with violent tendancies. He should have been taken right off the streets and straight into an asylum.

Posted by: Angela5 | January 10, 2011 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Oh my goodness, he listened to "Anti-Flag" (anarchist punk band). I guess we should ban punk rock now too....and cars, because cars kill more people than guns.

Posted by: longhornsandbeer | January 10, 2011 1:22 PM | Report abuse

There's a lot of gibberish in this space about the proper definition of Nazism on the political spectrum. As a human being with a brain and an encyclopedia of political science 5-volume set sitting on my desk, I'd like to add some clarity to the matter.

See my previous post, quoting an expert in the subject, on the definition and and regime examples of fascism, which is an "ultranationalist totalitarianism of the extreme right."

I am far more apt to believe an expert, than the rantings of anonymous internet incendiaries with limited vocabularies. Just because you repeat something over and over, does not make it true.

Please, be reasonable.

I do not wish to speculate on the shooter's ideology or mental unhealth. That will come out in due course, and not from hearsay or circumstantial assumptions. But, I do wish to at least put out there a citation for a source of this basic history. Not somebody being a descendant of somebody, or this preoccupation with the word socialist, alone. Yes, Hitler used language to misdirect and obfuscate. Be vigilant that you, too, are not susceptible to such things.

I cannot believe that reasonable people think socialism, marxism, fascism, and communism are all the same thing. Which leads me to the conclusion that my plea for reason will be drowned out here.

Posted by: AnneKerns | January 10, 2011 1:21 PM | Report abuse

The purpose is to create division among the people so that they are weakened by infighting.

Divide and conquer is a very old and trusted tactic.

Consider the Obmama narrative:

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night. “Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/


These are not the words of a leader for unity and harmony. It is a suggestion and sets a tone. It is designed to cause incidents to be used to justify a totalitarian police state.

The next step would be for Obama's "citizen army" of youths doing what socialists and communists historically do.

Posted by: cadgbd | January 10, 2011 1:18 PM | Report abuse

All those that are blaming these killings on a particular political belief, left or right, have their heads up their rears and are using it as an excuse to fulfill their own political agendas. The individual who committed this horrible act was an extremely mentally disturbed, paranoid individual, to the point of being disruptive, incoherent with violent tendancies. He should have been taken right off the streets and straight into an asylum.

Posted by: Angela5 | January 10, 2011 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Everyone who came into contact with this deranged person and feared that he might do someone harm and did nothing to bring him to the attention of authorities is at fault. Lynda Sorenson shares that fault based on her e-mails. The class's instructor, Ben McGahee, shares that fault, the school authorities who sent him home and told him to get himself a psych evaluation before returning to school share that fault. However, if any of these people did try to bring him to the attention of authorities, school authorities or otherwise, then they do not share any fault because they tried to do something. The authorities, if they did nothing, share that fault.

Posted by: speer168 | January 10, 2011 1:12 PM | Report abuse

All those that are blaming these killings on a particular political belief, left or right, have their heads up their rears and are using it as an excuse to fulfill their own political agendas. The individual who committed this horrible act was an extremely metally disturbed, paranoid individual, to the point of being disruptive, incoherent with violent tendancies. He should have been taken right off the streets and straight into an asylum.

Posted by: Angela5 | January 10, 2011 1:12 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 1:09 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 1:09 PM | Report abuse

It's not the gun fault or his parents fault or his fault or republicans fault or democrats fault or right wing or left wing fault. Its OUR FAULT. When you know someone is very mentally disturbed for sure, you should bring it up to the proper authorities and personnel to keep an eye on them. It's true that our judicial system sucks. Until something or someone is seriously hurt and injured, they won't move a muscle. It will be on us, you, me and every hard working Americans to watch our backs.

God Bless, America.

http://you-me-and-world.blogspot.com

Posted by: godblessyouu | January 10, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse

It's not the gun fault or his parents fault or his fault or republicans fault or democrats fault or right wing or left wing fault. Its OUR FAULT. When you know someone is very mentally disturbed for sure, you should bring it up to the proper authorities and personnel to keep an eye on them. It's true that our judicial system sucks. Until something or someone is seriously hurt and injured, they won't move a muscle. It will be on us, you, me and every hard working Americans to watch our backs.

God Bless, America.

http://you-me-and-world.blogspot.com

Posted by: godblessyouu | January 10, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Too bad we'll never catch his CIA/Mossad handlers. Manchuran Candidate comes to mind

Posted by: robertsgt401 | January 10, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse

It's not the gun fault or his parents fault or his fault or republicans fault or democrats fault or right wing or left wing fault. Its OUR FAULT. When you know someone is very mentally disturbed for sure, you should bring it up to the proper authorities and personnel to keep an eye on them. It's true that our judicial system sucks. Until something or someone is seriously hurt and injured, they won't move a muscle. It will be on us, you, me and every hard working Americans to watch our backs.

God Bless, America.

http://you-me-and-world.blogspot.com

Posted by: godblessyouu | January 10, 2011 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Too bad we'll never catch his CIA/Mossad handlers. Manchuran Candidate comes to mind

Posted by: robertsgt401 | January 10, 2011 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Too bad we'll never catch his CIA/Mossad handlers. Manchuran Candidate comes to mind

Posted by: robertsgt401 | January 10, 2011 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it interesting that there was no outburst from the media when the "kill Bush" signs showed up at the 2000 Presidential rallies.......or the effigy of Sarah Palin was with a noose around her neck hung at a home in LA last Halloween........

Posted by: chukkalady | January 10, 2011 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it interesting that there was no outburst from the media when the "kill Bush" signs showed up at the 2000 Presidential rallies.......or the effigy of Sarah Palin was with a noose around her neck hung at a home in LA last Halloween........

Posted by: chukkalady | January 10, 2011 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Once again we have someone who manifested all the actions of a dangerous psycho and no one reported him to authorities. He was even told not to come back to school until he had a psych evaluation.... like he's going to go do that right? Ha..Ha..Ha Sure he will! Will we never learn? As for guns, all who are members of a well regulated militia please stand up. The rest.... surrender your handguns. The sale of handguns except to our well regulated militia, our military and our police should cease immediately..

Posted by: speer168 | January 10, 2011 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it interesting that there was no outburst from the media when the "kill Bush" signs showed up at the 2000 Presidential rallies.......or the effigy of Sarah Palin was with a noose around her neck hung at a home in LA last Halloween........

Posted by: chukkalady | January 10, 2011 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Once again we have someone who manifested all the actions of a dangerous psycho and no one reported him to authorities. He was even told not to come back to school until he had a psych evaluation.... like he's going to go do that right? Ha..Ha..Ha Sure he will! Will we never learn? As for guns, all who are members of a well regulated militia please stand up. The rest.... surrender your handguns. The sale of handguns except to our well regulated militia, our military and our police should cease immediately..

Posted by: speer168 | January 10, 2011 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Once again we have someone who manifested all the systems of a dangerous psycho and no one reported him to authorities. He was even told not to come back to school until he had a psych evaluation.... like he's going to go do that right? Ha..Ha..Ha Sure he will! Will we never learn? As for guns, all who are members of a well regulated militia please stand up. The rest.... surrender your handguns. The sale of handguns except to our well regulated militia, our military and our police should cease immediately..

Posted by: speer168 | January 10, 2011 12:29 PM | Report abuse

We have Sarah Palin and all the other Tea Bagers to blame for this reaction. This is what you get when you have people on FIXed News and Sarah Palin talking about "taking people out". Wake up stupid Americans...
www.thethrifters.net

Posted by: dtroppy | January 10, 2011 12:20 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 12:15 PM | Report abuse

We need to focus on the fact that he was clearly mentally off-balance, as is obvious from his youtubes, the fear he elicited from fellow students, and the fact that he was kicked out of his college until he had a psych eval.

This is the result of an insanity that I am not qualified to name, but which is in line with a long list of massacres perpetrated by loner, unbalanced, seemingly highly paranoid individuals who are waiting for a catalyst to push them over the edge. Who knows what the catalyst was? Was it the target siting on the DailyKos or on Palin's page? Was it the comment by Obama to bring a gun to a fight? Who knows? One can not possibly know what pushed his final button.

To assign a "political affiliation" to someone such as this is simply crazy.

Instead, we should focus on what we, as a society, can do to protect such people from themselves..and to protect ourselves. We can't institutionalize them until AFTER they have done something that puts them into the penal system. By then it is too late for the innocent. We used to be able to protect them and us better, but our "civil rights" mentality deinstutionalized the former institutionalized, and prevents us from taking sensible action against those who are a clear danger.

As for the calls I hear for "denouncing" violent rhetoric....this does no good. Obviously, no sane person would take, for example, the old expression "There is more than one way to skin a cat" to mean "go out and do it", but we are not talking about sanity here. In the same light, no sane person would take Obama's proclamation to bring a gun to a fight to actually do it...I would no more blame Obama for this statement if someone actually brought a gun and shot someone than I do any of the "targets" on districts by either the DailyKos or Palin.

Our civilized, educated society understands that "don't retreat, reload" by Palin does not mean take a gun and shoot someone. We understand "if they bring a knife, we bring a gun" by Obama does not mean "go shoot someone". Any talk of squelching "rhetoric" is highly misplaced. Focus on the insanity of those who massacre, and what we can do to defend ourselves against that insanity.

Re: : Palin's spokesperson claiming these were not sights on the map..C'mon. I truly hope Palin does not "own" that ridiculous statement. That is an overactive friend trying to protect her and being silly.

By the same token, I suppose all these are really not "targets" either, just little circles, correct? Don't be silly.

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

Posted by: BridgePerspective | January 10, 2011 12:07 PM | Report abuse

notamuslim

It is used in advertising. It is used in politics. It is used by the military. It is used in schools.

Here is a documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUYFr-uDQgg

Those who are half asleep and unaware of their subconscious motivations make excellent Manchurian candidates.


Posted by: cadgbd | January 10, 2011 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Jared Loughner voted for Obama.

Jared Loughner, typical left-wing extremist Marxist terrorist.

Posted by: asrtujar4ujazrtfjfgjstkj | January 10, 2011 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Jared Loughner voted for Obama.

Jared Loughner, typical left-wing extremist Marxist terrorist.

Posted by: asrtujar4ujazrtfjfgjstkj | January 10, 2011 12:02 PM | Report abuse

I wish all you gun haters would put a sign in your yard saying “This is a gun free home” let everybody know you don’t own a gun. ...

Posted by: yank7
__________________________________________

Sadly, there's a clown in my middle-class suburban neighborhood who's long had a sign in his front yard that he's "a bitter gun owner." He may be just another Jerod Loughner waiting to pop.

Posted by: Jumpy66 | January 10, 2011 11:42 AM | Report abuse

To author David A. Fahrenthold, student Lynda Sorenson and others, teacher Ben McGahee and school authorities-I would like to know WHY Loughner was not reported to the police immediately? How could you let this go unreported or did you try? He could have been followed or in custody before this incident if these people at the school had made sure police were aware of his behavior being that there have been so many school shootings! Please David A. Fahrenthold finish this story by letting us know why or if these people at the college reported Loughner to police authorities or if they are just as negligent as the rest of the apathetic society! Thank you!

Posted by: pswoodard | January 10, 2011 11:41 AM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Apparently, if you're a conservative, you can go to a Washington Post comment thread and equate liberals with the worst mass murderers of the 20th century. But if someone points out the fallacy of this logic by equating conservatives with pedophiles, even with tongue obviously planted firmly in cheek, you get deleted. And the Post is a bastion of liberalism and staunch defender of free speech?

Posted by: paul10 | January 10, 2011 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Apparently, if you're a conservative, you can go to a Washington Post comment thread and equate liberals with the worst mass murderers of the 20th century. But if someone points out the fallacy of this logic by equating conservatives with pedophiles, even with tongue obviously planted firmly in cheek, you get deleted. And the Post is a bastion of liberalism and staunch defender of free speech?

Posted by: paul10 | January 10, 2011 11:33 AM | Report abuse

I appologize to the forum for the multi-post. In my defense I got an error message and saw no posting the first time around.

Posted by: notamuslim | January 10, 2011 11:32 AM | Report abuse

I wish all you gun haters would put a sign in your yard saying “This is a gun free home” let everybody know you don’t own a gun. Every time a nut shots people you freaks of nature act like law abiding citizens should be punish by taking their 2nd amendment right away.

Obama said “ Argue With Your Neighbors, Get In Their Face”

Obama: ‘If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun ...

Posted by: yank7 | January 10, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

So here we have examples of how this person who couldn't sit through an algebra class without being disruptive, other stories about how he was clearly a psychopath whose thought processes were more jumbled than a box of puzzle pieces, and yet others how he believed he was a victim of some government thought-control conspiracy, yet poster after poster on the WaPo, and reporter after reporter on news outlets (see this a.m.'s Post Express cover "gone too far?" for example), and politician after politician is on the news talking about the need for civil discourse (really!?!?!). Folks, let's use some common sense here. This guy was mentally disturbed. He wasn't motivated by right-wing rhetoric. He was motivated by a mental condition wherein he felt he had the irrefutable right to decide whether someone should live or die. Even if this guy was inspired by right-wing rhetoric (and there's pretty much zero evidence to show that he did), it's not to blame. Was J.D. Salinger responsible for John Lennon's death? Was Jodie Foster responsible for the assasination attempt on Reagan? Let's try thinking rationally here.

Posted by: pswift00 | January 10, 2011 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Why is it that after an attacked has occured that the police and other social program's and authorities get involved the sign's are/were their, making a complaint against someone the police and other people that have the authority to do any thing ask Has the person done any harm to you or one yet? You have to wait until someone is Killed or Harmed before any action's is taken, we are told to report thing's that happened and when we do nothing is being done, I know someone whom reported about a child needing assistance and to this date nothing is being done, after something bad happen's then EVERYBODY will come and say why did no one call, well they do call, and this is the after Affect.The RED FLAG'S are/were their.

Posted by: theonlysugarcomcastnet | January 10, 2011 11:29 AM | Report abuse

at realisticparanoia
That was pathetic. You spewed forth that whole paranoid rave as if it were a true and totally undisputed fact that all people in government live to be evil mind controlling monsters and we must all live in fear of the hidden hand of government control.

The government is not the problem. Jerks like you who live in their mothers basement at age 40 and have nothing better to do than invent things to fear are the problem.

The guy in this article was captured after killing or injuring innocent people and the background given indicates that he had been unable to control himself for a long time. Telling faerie tales about mind control doesn't help anything. There is no government conspiracy to control the minds of America but maybe there should be one to watch YOU Personally.

I'm sure there could be a reality show based upon your paranioa. Millions might tune in to see what your next big sign of whackjob-itis will be. Unfortunately after watching you set your forty door locks for the thirteenth time each hour I think most people would tune out from shear boredom.

Think about what you are saving to people here. Mind control? Jeez, what a nutjob.

Posted by: notamuslim | January 10, 2011 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Transylvania65000:

Hit a nerve did it? B2O2 made a comment about shooting the families of conservatives. You are defending the statement and joining in the attack.

You confuse mental retardation with mental illness, as anyone that disagrees with you. Belittling the mentally retarded is in poor taste. What a cruel and thoughtless remark! Shame on you. It is you who must live with yourself. Sorry but calling "charter" won't help you. Ulimately, it is up to you, what you say and how you behave.

The tone of your remarks suggests that by transference it is you that desperately wants help. You already know "charter". No?

Throwing a temper tantrum and calling names in defense of a comment that instigates violence toward political opposition (conservative's families)is your behavior and could be illegal.

Take a deep breath and calm down. There are two types of thinking: reactive and habitual patterns and reality based thinking, which is based upon the facts.

Your comments are angry, illogical, and threatening. The danger of making such anonymous threats, which is easily done millions of times each day, is that you are forming a habit of temper tantrums, insults, and threatening behavior.

Perhaps you were being factious. In that case please be more responsible about what you say because it might come back to haunt.

----------------------------------------

"cadgbd... you are seriously mentally retarded. Get help. Call charter. If you dont' call Charter... Please, call someone."

Posted by: cadgbd | January 10, 2011 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Starkville | January 10, 2011 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Meanwhile back at Reality Ranch ... the real unemployment rate is over 20%, the dollar is fading as the world's reserve currency, the depression is in its 2 year, the 2 illegal wars rage on, as the degenerates contemplate others and drone attacks, and they want everyone focused on this ... Cui Bono?

http://911essentials.com

Posted by: bee3 | January 10, 2011 11:22 AM | Report abuse

at realisticparanoia
That was pathetic. You spewed forth that whole paranoid rave as if it were a true and totally undisputed fact that all people in government live to be evil mind controlling monsters and we must all live in fear of the hidden hand of government control.

The government is not the problem. Jerks like you who live in their mothers basement at age 40 and have nothing better to do than invent things to fear are the problem.

The guy in this article was captured after killing or injuring innocent people and the background given indicates that he had been unable to control himself for a long time. Telling faerie tales about mind control doesn't help anything. There is no government conspiracy to control the minds of America but maybe there should be one to watch YOU Personally. What will your next big sign of whackjob-itis be? I'm sure there could be a reality show based upon your paranioa. Unfortunately after watching you set your forty door locks for the thirteenth time each hour I think most peopl would tune out. Think about what you are saving to people here. Mind control? Jeez, what a nutjob.

Posted by: notamuslim | January 10, 2011 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Not unlike some of the CHILLING commentary posted in WaPo's comment section.

Posted by: whocares666 | January 10, 2011 11:10 AM | Report abuse

The sadness of the events in Tucson are felt by all American's
There are those who want to make this a problem of only Republican rhetoric and dismiss Democrat rhetoric, BUT....

Back in June 2008, then Senator Obama spoke at a fundraiser in Philadelphia area..." If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun".

Posted by: rimallek | January 10, 2011 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Toning down is not an option. Speech is just that, unless it is specifically calling for physical violence attacking it is off limits.

We're at a pivotal point in our nation's history right now. The last thing we should be doing is "toning down" the "rhetoric". The decisions our leaders are making right now will impact our lives, and our children's lives, in very real ways. They will shape the culture of this country profoundly.

Don't tone it down: Yell. Get mad. Get frustrated. Debate your beliefs with someone who believes the opposite and drive each other nuts. But do it like grown ups who are sane. When you are done walk away, maybe even shake hands, and appreciate the intellectual venting exercise you just participated in.

Heaven help us all if we get to a point where we are restricted from speaking our minds because one crazy person out of 300 million might have a hissy fit. We would be taking the cowards way out if that were the case.

Posted by: reign999 | January 10, 2011 11:08 AM | Report abuse

"Did no one learn or remember that the word Nazi means extream Christian?" This is wrong on soo many levels I don't know where to begin ... spellcheck or theology. Clearly this individual isn't aware of the daily terrorism in the Muslim world and their dictate to kill all infidels. All extremists are dangerous ... whether they be religious or political. Unfortunately, in this age where folks can sit in front of a computer and rant anonymously versus getting out in public and be socialable while allowing others their opinion is an antiquated concept.

Posted by: pejochum | January 10, 2011 11:03 AM | Report abuse

It's my understanding that the Congresswoman who was injured was a Democrat and the judge who was KILLED was a Republican. Looks like a bipartisan effort to me.

Posted by: SusanK2 | January 10, 2011 10:59 AM | Report abuse

It's my understanding that the Congresswoman who was injured was a Democrat and the judge who was KILLED was a Republican.

Posted by: SusanK2 | January 10, 2011 10:58 AM | Report abuse


Can we ask why his parents did not have him committed? Can we ask them why they allowed him access to a large sum of money to purchase firearms? Can we ask if insuring the medical privacy of the psychotic that allows them to purchase firearms is the best policy?

How about focusing on some common sense solutions that would actually prevent these kind of tragedies instead of the politics or proposing restrictions on everyone, not just the delusional.

Posted by: edbyronadams | January 10, 2011 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: reneedallas | January 10, 2011 10:57 AM | Report abuse

The Dems and the media are playing us again. This totally senseless killing spree is just that. In the meantime, the left is attacking the right as a means of distraction from the agenda that really needs to be worked on. Namely, the reduction of spending and shrinking the size of government. We play into their hands by trying to respond to these not so stupid, misdirecting allegations by the left.

Posted by: tailchain814 | January 10, 2011 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Remember the word for extream Christian is Nazi. Read blooypost and others on here if you think this guy is only one in a million

Posted by: pmmacc | January 10, 2011 10:45 AM | Report abuse

I thought that Nazi meant National Socialist.

*extreme

Posted by: paperwc | January 10, 2011 10:52 AM | Report abuse

This is a tragedy. I pray for those injured and for the families of the dead. However, one cannot be denied a right simply because of opinions.

We are guaranteed freedom of speech you know, as well as the right to keep and bear arms. Living in a free society takes a fair amount of guts. It's not for everyone. That is not a reason to attempt to deny freedoms to those who do have the guts to exercise those freedoms responsibly. That includes a duty (responsibility) to be the caretaker of one's own safety.

Had others exercised those freedoms (responsibilities) the casualty count would have been far less...at least it would have increased the odds.

Posted by: cfuller1971 | January 10, 2011 10:50 AM | Report abuse

ICompelYou is totally wrong that Guns kill people,not people kill people.Guns don't pull their own trigger.People pull the trigger.

Posted by: GRADERITE1129 | January 10, 2011 10:49 AM | Report abuse

ICompelYou is totally wrong that Guns kill people,not people kill people.Guns don't pull their own trigger.People pull the trigger.

Posted by: GRADERITE1129 | January 10, 2011 10:49 AM | Report abuse

ICompelYou is totally wrong that Guns kill people,not people kill people.Guns don't pull their own trigger.People pull the trigger.

Posted by: GRADERITE1129 | January 10, 2011 10:48 AM | Report abuse

ShakingMyHead-

Thanks for at least a thoughtful comment. I agree movements on the far-left and far-right are both institutionalized in powerful government. The left is not always associated with repressive government control and the right is not immune--passing religious beliefs into law. Nationalism is rising on the right of this country, as it always does and you know more then anyone what puffed up nationalism and neo-conservative ideas can do to a country. I disagree that left equates with big government--in my estimation, left equates with a preferece for empiricism and a focus on outcomes (not how you live and what you belive--ah, the freedom!) and right with ideology--as long as you believe what I believe the outcome will be just fine. Hope we have learned something here from an exchange--otherwise all this is the total wasteland it appears to be.

Posted by: communique101 | January 10, 2011 10:47 AM | Report abuse

ShakingMyHead-

Thanks for at least a thoughtful comment. I agree movements on the far-left and far-right are both institutionalized in powerful government. The left is not always associated with repressive government control and the right is not immune--passing religious beliefs into law. Nationalism is rising on the right of this country, as it always does and you know more then anyone what puffed up nationalism and neo-conservative ideas can do to a country. I disagree that left equates with big government--in my estimation, left equates with a preferece for empiricism and a focus on outcomes (not how you live and what you belive--ah, the freedom!) and right with ideology--as long as you believe what I believe the outcome will be just fine. Hope we have learned something here from an exchange--otherwise all this is the total wasteland it appears to be.

Posted by: communique101 | January 10, 2011 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Can anyone responding to this actually READ, or is ASSuming things your only lifestyle? Most of these posts show just how bad the American education system is and why things like this happen. People like 'bloodypost' show this guy isn't the only religion based nut case out there.

Did no one learn or remember that the word Nazi means extream Christian? This guy will be like all the others, single, poorly educated, poorly fed, with a violent, abusive male (usually father) in his life and a weak abused female, who stays with the abused male. There will be a strong attachment or function of a religion (usually Christian) with continued rants about how 'all them' should/would/could/will be destroyed/killed/removed from the world, making it the way it 'should' be.

Sound familiar? It should, it is spewed from every pulpit, church, synagog, mosque, and or religious meeting of any fire and brimstone Preacher/Minister/Priest/Rabi/Cleric

This was a MATH class, right? Why would anyone disrupt a math class? What could/would/should be said or done during a normal math class that would upset anyone who functions a normal level?

Take your 'political' opinions to the political page and/or just shove them where they actually belong. This is a serious problem - schools are failing to teach people to reason at all, and failing to report dangerous people when they get to adult size. This will continue to happen since religions teach hate and violence.
Remember the word for extream Christian is Nazi. Read blooypost and others on here if you think this guy is only one in a million

Posted by: pmmacc | January 10, 2011 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Aspergirl - You realize that the congresswoman was pro-life, anti-immigration, and very much in support of gun rights don't you? She was a VERY moderate democrat. I guess in your mind republicans are to blame no matter what the facts are. You're dogmatism is saddening.

Posted by: Jrock2 | January 10, 2011 10:43 AM | Report abuse

If you taken the trouble to read Loughner's postings instead of simply searching for buzzwords or titles that you could use to tie him to a political ideology that you don't approve of, you realize that he is entirely incoherent. His sentences don't make any sense because they're ungrammatical. (You don't find that in political writings.) It's not a matter of not construing reality as most people construe reality; it's a matter of not construing reality at all.

I suspect that this would show up pretty quickly and vividly in a math class. Usually in a community college, a faculty member can dismiss a student from class and insist that the student meet with the dean of students before returning. The dean of students can require the student to undergo psychological evaluation. Loughner's mental condition must have been pretty clear, and the college officials attempted to deal with him within the limits of their authority.

Had he not been psychotic, he would not have committed this crime. At the same time, he lived in a climate in which political rhetoric has become highly charged. I'm not talking here about any public figure, although public figures contribute to this climate. But you only have to read comments on Post stories in which presumably normal people speak of an impending second civil war or second revolution or place on those who disagree with them labels that may be associated with treason--a capital crime. Everybody needs to turn it down. Those who are so angry that they can't might want to consider looking for more congenial places.

Posted by: amstphd | January 10, 2011 10:43 AM | Report abuse

are anarchists our suicide bombers like those of al quaeda...

Posted by: DwightCollins | January 10, 2011 10:41 AM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Aspergirl,
It's clear to me from your post that liberals have no understanding of who conservatives are and what they're all about. At the same time, conservatives, admittedly, do a terrible job of articulating why they think and believe what they do.

To this end, I must recommend the book Gut Feeling to you. It explains who conservatives are and why many who think they're liberal are actually more conservative.

You can check out excerpts at gutfeelingbook [dot] com or check it out on Amazon. It's by Jon Friesch.

If more people understood conservatism - whether accepting or rejecting it - we wouldn't be trying to blame an entire legitimate philosophy on something done by a person who was nothing more than insane.

Posted by: jon31 | January 10, 2011 10:38 AM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Palin is anti-government and so is her husband. She should really be checked out. Not every destructive person uses the gun.

I'd say this guy to her "reload" message seriously.

Posted by: glacy3 | January 10, 2011 10:37 AM | Report abuse

cavatellie posted: "Shooter's friend: "As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal" So much for the tea party hate."

Yeah, but he was also, apparently, engaging in the violent rhetoric of anti-immigrant, racist and anti-abortion activists. So he was definitely keyed into the most hate-oriented cultural flashpoints of the right wing, whether or not he was fiscally or politically liberal.

Posted by: AsperGirl | January 10, 2011 10:34 AM | Report abuse

How could this happen? What is wrong!

He may very well have been just a mad person, mentally ill & lost control.

He apparently was seriously mentally ill and could have been led down such a path unwittingly and without much effort and if true then what would be the directors motive? Who would benefit from this?


I am aware of someone whom this was done to, his action would have made top world headlines. It was a terrible thing he was going to do but he was programed or something & so it just did not seem all that bad to him, simply "not quite right". However, he did seek professional mental health help, recognized it as external and sabotaged any means of accomplishing the act/task. The deed was very close to becoming reality and today he seems as if it never really occurred, just an episode.

Our Government has ongoing programs which could accomplish such as this & has since at least the 1950's, not that this is the case, but is a very remote possibility. (plea of insanity?)
See link below:

http://en.wikipedia.orgwiki/Project_MKULTRA

Apparently many Americans are not aware of the "FACTS" in this link, or chose to forget them, much as they chose to forget that for at least the last ten years any electronics they use, conversations, keystrokes, sites, finances, purchases etc. are systematically stored for reference by someone other than you in detail, you can at least request your FBI & CIA file (FOIA).

The mass animal deaths in the news lately have been happening for many decades and some of them might be attributable to a variety of methods used by the US Government as a side effect of these operations.

The link highlights congressional inquiry into experimentation that the Government was not just interested in, but wanted enough to justify using unwitting US Citizens as test subjects without their knowledge or consent (even using children), inhumane!

Very few of those abused in such ways are aware of the abuse, so it works, and many of these folks have mental disabilities as a direct result of these experiences.
(Without verification or compensation).

As far as open carry rights, few exercise this right plain and simple because authority deems them paranoid or different if not aggressive or hostile. The police see it as a threat or that you don't believe in their ability to protect you, and the later is correct for many of those who carry. I believe it would make a difference in the crime rate, as well as curb abuse of power by those in authority.

Time and again there have been examples of conspiracy that reach even the Oval Office.

America needs a much more transparent Government, wiki-leaks is helping spearhead this movement. It will be very difficult but necessary, or continue toward a police state. Secrecy breeds all kinds of badness, exclusivity which leads to worse such as mistrust, even racism is continued in part due to such policies.

I feel deep sadness at the event and wish healing for all of the families affected.


Posted by: realisticparanoia | January 10, 2011 10:32 AM | Report abuse

It's sad when someone with a condition of mental instability buys into the rhetoric of racism and religious intolerance that apparently engaged this person's imagination.

The only time vitriolic or incendiary speech should be part of a public expression of political speech is when the speaker is expressing some deep personal feeling based on their own experience or motivation.

When Republican and religious and anti-immigrant leaders to cynically use hate speech and targeting speech for partisan purposes, they not only put us all at risk because the mentally unstable will buy into that, but they also debase the essential value of passionate or incendiary speech.

The callous partisan tack of divisive hate speech that the right wing has taken, contributes to the intellectual and cultural degeneration of our political process and leads us as a society even farther down the path toward being more like a third world nation than a leading society in the global community.

The mentally unstable guy acting out his anti-abortion, anti-immigration and anti-government gripes in this way is a symptom of the degenerate political culture on the right.

Posted by: AsperGirl | January 10, 2011 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Shooter's friend: "As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal"

So much for the tea party hate.

BTW...even if he was tea party, are we going then call all democrats thugs since most inner city criminals are black democratic liberals on welfare?

Posted by: cavatellie | January 10, 2011 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Hopefully it won't take twenty years to execute this murdering punk. He was lucid enough to plan this, to get a cab and bring extra ammo: mental defect defense be damned.

Posted by: Knuckledragger | January 10, 2011 10:26 AM | Report abuse

From now on I will be keeping a closer eye on these so-called anti-government extremists.

Posted by: SmallBusiness | January 10, 2011 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Hasn't everybody met someone at some point in their life that was convinced that you were mentally unstable? If we put creedence in every accusation, we'd all be locked up in a nuthouse worse than the one we're all in now.

Posted by: joshlct | January 10, 2011 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Holy crapppp. I can't believe at a time like this you people choose to trot out your easily disprovable theories like "liberalism is a mental disorder." Even worse - let's make this into a bigger political farce than it already is! People are dead, and they are not coming back. Everyone really, really needs to calm down and take a sobering look in the mirror.

I know this won't be the end of it, but FASCISM DOES NOT EQUAL SOCIALISM/MARXISM/COMMUNISM. And no, I am NOT a Marxist by any means - just a person who actually reads things other than left- or right-wing blowhards on TV.

Answer this simple question - if the Nazis were truly Marxists or Communists, why was it that the FIRST group they went after when the Reichstag Fire was staged was...THE COMMUNIST PARTY? Stop, take a second, let that settle in.

Most professional historians (CLEARLY ALL MARXIST-FASCISTS!) agree that the use of the term "Socialist" in the Nazi name was a way to jump on the bandwagon of Workers' Rights in a time when the country was falling apart and unemployment was skyrocketing due to hyper-inflation and war debts. It is patently obvious, if you look at what actually happened, that Hitler HATED Communists and Socialists (and also small-D democrats) as he attempted to eradicate them all from society, in addition to Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, Homosexuals, etc.

Ok, I'm done ranting, but I'm sure many of you aren't. The point is that there is no use ascribing political blame on either side to this guy. If anything, the climate of political hatred that so many of you have so readily shown here, played an indirect role in this nutjob's plans. But given that this guy hasn't even stood trial yet, I am not ready or willing to ascribe a political slant to this tragedy.

People really need to get a grip - this isn't about politics. I believe it was John Boehner who said that "an attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve."

Posted by: thesecommentersarecrazy | January 10, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

What a creep. Too bad this anti-government extremist wasn't taken more seriously.

Posted by: SmallBusiness | January 10, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Why do you continue to write these silly articles? We all know that Palin's bull’s-eyes are what caused this lone gunman to kill 6 people while trying to assassinate a Democrat congresswoman. I expect a warrant to be issued for Palin's arrest any day once all the facts come out.
Obama has put the justice department on this and we know what that means. Palin is going down. It is clearly her fault, even though her bull’s eye of the congresswoman's district came out long after the assassin started to plan killing the congresswoman.

Posted by: nychap44 | January 10, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

There are two issues here, community mental health care, and rhetoric. Number one is that there is no effective mechanism for getting people like Loughner into psychiatric care. In another era, he would have been picked up from school by the sheriff, examined by a couple of physicians, and put into the local mental hospital for a while. His family would have gotten involved in his treatment, and he would have stayed in a hospital setting or inpatient care for a year or more. These days there are virtually NO community mental hospitals left, and our medical insurance barely covers mental health anymore, if you have it. Paxil and other good psychiatric drugs cost $25 per day and up without insurance- more than most people can afford. We need to address this problem- murder is a more common side effect of mental illness than you know. Think about all the "barricaded losers" you see, shot down in standoffs after killing a family member or an officer. Most of them are people who have been turned down for psychiatric care. Regular domestic violence, drug overdoses, chronic alcoholism, work rage, traffic rage, sexual assaults...keep on listing. You may have a problem person who needs care in your own family.
The other problem is simply one of the level of violent rhetoric in the political process. People- American democracy was INVENTED to STOP political violence. Think about it. The whole process is intended to give people a ballot box in which to express their opinions. It means, if you lose an election, you don't throw a hissy fit and threaten to kill the opposition- you go back to the drawing board and play a better game at the next election. I suggest simply that politicians stop using metaphors of war and violence in their speeches, and return to the more civilized and appropriate sports metaphor. We're not going to "KIll the Enemy", we're going to "score big against the other team". I know this sounds simplistic, but really, people who constantly bombard the public with threats, spreading fears about the black helicopters and various racial and political nonexistent plots, and call people to arms really aren't harmless nuts- there are wackos out there like Loughner who don't understand that it is just propaganda- they take it literally. And guns are too easy for nuts to get ahold of. And yes, Democrats and Republicans alike are guilty- it just happens that this time it was Palin who put the crosshairs on Giffords. The next step is having Democrat and Republican street gangs meeting in the town square, like the Gangs of New York. We really don't want to go back to those times. Tone it down.

Posted by: whitebeard1 | January 10, 2011 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Here is the lesson from Arizona: Rights are only worthwhile if people exercise them. Arizona allows concealed carry of firearms. So why is it that the congress woman, and (so it would seem) all the other sane people who came to the event were defenseless? Two unarmed citizens eventually subdued the mad man, but they were obliged to wait until he had emptied his oversize clip, killing six and seriously injuring many others.

Posted by: jdadson | January 10, 2011 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Trakker 9:33 AM - Define "mental instability".

Posted by: ICompelYou | January 10, 2011 9:50 AM | Report abuse

People, stop arguing about Loughner's mental health, as if it had anything to do with the alleged shooting incident in Arizona. His sanity or lack thereof, and his political affiliations, if any, had no bearing in this case. It's quite obvious that it was his gun that killed those people.

Posted by: ICompelYou | January 10, 2011 9:43 AM | Report abuse

SharpStick and Mr. Thompson
Wow. We come to a day when everyone writes their own history, according to his or her own biases and ignorance and anyone who differs is mentally ill. Great. Yes, national socialism--which is facism--has a strong state and is militaristic. It took populism and whipped it up through nationalistic sentiment, racism, and scapegoating of minorities and institutionalized it--as political movements do. And it was and is a phenomena of the right--the nationalism, get it?---guess not only communists have a strong state--maybe the right builds strong states, as well? Holy Cow, it absolutely never occurred to me that political movements of both the right and the left extremes take power, instituionalize it in a state and defend it?? You mean they want POWER? Get out! The pople need guns, though to do it. No, fascism isn't conservatism and socialism and communism are not liberal. Shocking, isn't it? It could rock your world. I hope you both still think we should engage in self-government or is anarchy the way of the future? I guess it would be ideal if "average" folks, say like the ones here, could create our next form of government--in all the wisdom displayed in this blog.

Posted by: communique101 | January 10, 2011 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Lee Harvey Oswald was a member of the ACLU. Therefore, according to the logic of the Democrats, the ACLU was responsible for the death of JFK.

Posted by: tskier | January 10, 2011 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Lance64A - Priceless comment; succinct and so true. Of course, we all know who you have in mind!

Posted by: ICompelYou | January 10, 2011 9:34 AM | Report abuse

After reading these comments, one thing is clear: All the double, triple, and quadruple postings occur becase the Post's comment software sucks. Hit preview then submit. It works best.

Posted by: paul10 | January 10, 2011 9:34 AM | Report abuse

The NRA and gun nuts insist everyone, everyone, must be able to buy guns so we can protect ourselves from the tyrannical government.

Well, we now have a critically injured Congresswoman and a dead federal judge. Happy?

I want to know who is going to protect US, and little 9 year-old girls like Christina Greene, from the angry, paranoid gun owners (and, yes, Jared Loughner is a gun owner!)??

It's time for our politicians to stop listening to the paranoid gun nut bullies and make it mandatory that people who exhibit mental instability like Loughner and the VT shooter get put into the system that would deny them the purchase of a firearm!

Posted by: Trakker | January 10, 2011 9:33 AM | Report abuse

This tragedy once again brings to light how our psychiatric system of care has been compromised. In most states for a person that is a danger or suspected to be a danger to themselves or others to be admitted and retained in a secure psychiatric setting for any reasonable length of time, the courts the person be an acute immediate danger to themselves or others.The opinion of psychiatrists regarding waring signs and a person's pattern of behavior, such as that exhibited Loughner, the VT shooter and countless others , are usually ignored by judges and the 'special' magistrates that preside over involuntary commitment hearings.Psychiatrists cannot always predict when a person may be dangerous, but so called 'patient rights' have replaced safety as being the first and most important concern at these hearings. Access to care, and to psychiatrists in particular, has been eroded by managed care and states budget cuts to psychiatric care services. The dumping of seriously mentally ill people out of our hospitals and asylums onto the streets is a shameful chapter in our history.Such incidents will no doubt continue until we put psychiatrists back in charge of psychiatric treatment and bring back the institutions that protected the insane and the public.

Posted by: 10bestfan | January 10, 2011 9:31 AM | Report abuse

I don't understand why Loughner's political preferences matter to so many here. They're irrelevant, as far as the shooting incident is concerned. After all, it was his gun that killed those people!

Posted by: ICompelYou | January 10, 2011 9:29 AM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Truth is hate to those who hate the truth.

Posted by: Lance64A | January 10, 2011 9:25 AM | Report abuse

I observe a HUGE amount of blather reflecting this deeply divided society's "POLITICAL" "unresolved issues" that many people are now trying to connect to this evidently mentally disturbed individual's action. But I have seen VERY LITTLE recognition of the OBVIOUS REALITY.

The EVIDENT FACT that a disturbed (whether mentally, or in some sense "politically" makes no meaningful difference)individual has access to semi-automatic weaponry that can do what was done to so many people in the period of a very few seconds is ITSELF constructive-demonstration proof positive of the logical proposition that THIS ENTIRE SOCIETY is COLLECTIVELY SCREWY --- no less than this one person is individually.

Posted by: Geheimnis | January 10, 2011 9:19 AM | Report abuse

This tragedy once again brings to light how our psychiatric system of care has been compromised. In most states for a person that is a danger or suspected to be a danger to themselves or others to be admitted and retained in a secure psychiatric setting for any reasonable length of time, the courts the person be an acute immediate danger to themselves or others.The opinion of psychiatrists regarding waring signs and a person's pattern of behavior, such as that exhibited Loughner, the VT shooter and countless others , are usually ignored by judges and the 'special' magistrates that preside over involuntary commitment hearings.Psychiatrists cannot always predict when a person may be dangerous, but so called 'patient rights' have replaced safety as being the first and most important concern at these hearings. Access to care, and to psychiatrists in particular, has been eroded by managed care and states budget cuts to psychiatric care services. The dumping of seriously mentally ill people out of our hospitals and asylums onto the streets is a shameful chapter in our history.Such incidents will no doubt continue until we put psychiatrists back in charge of psychiatric treatment and bring back the institutions that protected the insane and the public.

Posted by: 10bestfan | January 10, 2011 9:19 AM | Report abuse

The main problem is it's always "Until he/she does something bad", referring to what action can be taken by either employers, security, Universities, whatever, when an individual is identified as seemingly unbalanced and potentially a threat to others.

Looking backwards from the shooting incident that actually happened in Tuscon makes it easy to get upset at those in a position of power to actually do something who did nothing or as much as they could. At the time nobody knew for sure exactly what was going to happen, how it was going to happen and when. In this case the gun was legally purchased, no criminal record, no psychological history, and he was academically acceptable at one point even if not socially. People have rights until authorities can step in, and again I ask you to be reminded - you'd likely do the same considering at the time you'd have NO idea of what/how/when any specific threat would be carried out.

The real culprits in this case seems to be the parents - he was staying at home when all this came about. They should have recognized he had tendencies towards paranoid schizophrenia and should have started the ball rolling as to testing, treating and so on. Then a proper paper trail would be on his records and people in a position to do more than just kick him out of class would have justification to do so. Of course this would not ensure any attack would be circumvented, but a far better chance.

It all starts with the immediate family, period.

Posted by: JimGoldbloomVA | January 10, 2011 9:12 AM | Report abuse

After reading every post in this comment string, it's clear there are potentially many more Jared Loughners lurking on this site. Vitriolic rhetoric, delusional theories, maniacal rants, personal hyperbole, these are all the angry markings of a Loughner precursor, one fiber snap away from a melt down. In fact I've come to believe that most persistant and aggressive posters are just that. The Dept Homeland Security would indeed be wise to track IP of these (and review as in leevandenbrink' case above) to help us avoid future calamity.

Posted by: sondrad1 | January 10, 2011 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Well it is more than a little clear this guy was completely nuts. Anyone who says "well it was the right wing media's fault" or " He was a far left commie/socialist" needs to take a look in the mirror if they want to see the face of an idiot. This boy was sick nothing more and nothing less.

Posted by: kyhighwayaolcom | January 10, 2011 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Obviously our educational professionals did not recognize the sypmtoms of a sicko in their midst. Puke.

Posted by: termlimits | January 10, 2011 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Hey: RespectingOthers
I think you hit the nail on the head there!

This guy wants to incite violence between the left and the right.

Posted by: rexreddy | January 10, 2011 9:00 AM | Report abuse

"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." ~ Lily Tomlin

http://911essentials.com

Posted by: bee3 | January 10, 2011 8:59 AM | Report abuse

The political shift in this country seems in lock step with an over anxious media, so over eager, to wallow in the next BIG story.

Posted by: alittlemojo | January 10, 2011 8:57 AM | Report abuse

left leaning media!

awk!

progressive smearing!

awk!

socialist/marxist/ communist!

awk!

left leaning media!

awk!

progressive smearing!

awk!

socialist/marxist/ communist!

awk!

Palin want a parrot!

awk!

Posted by: areyousaying | January 10, 2011 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Guys,

I wanted to concur with your assessment of the influence that political speech may have had on the shooter in Arizona. From the information gleaned from his Manifesto as well as conversations with other students we have learned the man was a conspiracy theorist who believed George Bush was behind 9-11, carried a copy of the Communist Manifesto with him, was an anarchist, did not believe in God and in fact may have been a part of the occult.
Despite the only information at this point revealing an kind of political "ideology", I think it would be premature and unfair to immediately blame Daily Kos, Maoists at the New York Times and the Obama Administration.

Posted by: davenarc | January 10, 2011 8:56 AM | Report abuse

HostileKnowledge is obviously being paid by the post.

Posted by: areyousaying | January 10, 2011 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Didn't we see the same set of behaviors at VT and the school did nothing. There was a time in the 50's when people like this were hospitalized and evaluated by professionals. If there was concern about public safety, they were kept for further treatment. Unfortunately, the ACLU stepped in and stopped that process.

Posted by: richard36 | January 10, 2011 8:43 AM | Report abuse

This nut job was just that. The problem and focus should be directed toward how inflammatory rhetoric is at the core of setting these wackos off. They are unstable to begin with...and all the hateful dialogue
that focused on healthcare was the fuse. My guess is that when the Republicans started right up with repealing the healthcare bill...caused the explosion.
IT WAS NOT ABOUT THE TEA PARTY..OR ANY PARTY FOR THAT MATTER.

WHAT AMAZES ME IS THAT ONLY AFTER EACH OF THESE HORRIBLY VIOLENT EPISODES...PEOPLE
COME FORWARD SAYING THAT THEY SAW ALL THESE SIGNS OF POTENTIAL VIOLENCE IN A PERSON.
WELL...WHY NOT BE PROACTIVE AND TELL POLICE, AND /OR OTHER PEOPLE WHO MIGHT INTERVENE BEFORE PEOPLE GET INJURED, AND MURDERED.
PASSING STRICTER GUN CONTROLS WON`T HELP...THAT IS LIKE SMOKE AND MIRRORS. SUPPOSEDLY, THERE ARE ALREADY ENOUGH GUNS IN THE U.S. FOR EVERY ADULT AND CHILD LIVING HERE.
PERSONALLY, I OWN GUNS,BUT THE FACT IS THAT
THE AMENDMENT THAT SAYS WE HAVE A RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS...IS OBVIOUSLY AT THE BOTTOM OF WHY GUNS ARE SUCH A MENACE IS OUR COUNTRY.
NOW, IT IS LIKE CLOSING THE BARN DOOR..AFTER THE HORSE GOT OUT.

Posted by: blazerguy234 | January 10, 2011 8:41 AM | Report abuse

shakingmyhead2 said:
"Obama famously said years ago that it could take 15 or 20 years to fully socialize medicine."

I'd love to see a source on that. Silence will be interpreted as conceding that it's a fabrication.

Posted by: mandrake | January 10, 2011 8:36 AM | Report abuse

If he would have been Hispanic I wonder what the media would be saying, especially Fox. I bet his mental disorder would be ignored and it would be an all out war against any legal and illegal immigrants, especially hispanics. Does this incident plus the Oklahoma bombing means that we should profile white people? Fair is fair.

Posted by: Antonio7 | January 10, 2011 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Republicans hate to have this stain of instability linked to them. Teabaggers are running from their sight target posters. They're constantly pointing out he's crazy and no affiliation with us. You're wrong. he was stupid so he was republican. He was unstable so he was a teabagger. He is everything you fear in your republican self. Forgive me while I sit near the door.

Posted by: madest | January 10, 2011 8:30 AM | Report abuse

RespectingOthers is right, this appears to be a matter of a mentally ill young man, not an idealogue. What we need to discuss is solutions including stricter handgun controls to make sure that this can't happen again (an no, this is not the price of living in a democracy) and that the mental health system is improved to identify and treat people with mental health issues early.

Posted by: mandrake | January 10, 2011 8:26 AM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 8:26 AM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the last 3 weeks I guess because my jokes. They need to spend that time tracking known nuts like Loughner! See the jokes that the DHS keeps an eye on and have a lot of quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 8:26 AM | Report abuse

Liberalism is a Mental Disorder.

Posted by: clearthinker2 | January 10, 2011 8:20 AM | Report abuse

Based upon everything that I have read, Jared Loughner doesn't really have a political affliation. Each side wants to paint the other as responsible for the demented actions of this young man. The reality is that it is not the tea party or the RNC or the DNC. The discord which is evident here gives license to anyone who is off-hinged. We do have US citizens on TV and radio who seem to advocate shooting people often as jokes or to inflame their viewers. The problem of this type of inflamatory rhetoric are the unintended consequences. People who sit on the fringes latch onto these ideas. Honestly, that is why concerns about gun-toting citizens at Presidential events are discerning. I think that we need to stop looking at the political affliations and just look at the discourse which is shown here. Each side throws out the barb and the other side retorts with just as inflamatory a statement as the first. I do not worry about the actors/actresses in this conversation. I worry about the third person who sees the vitriolic remarks and decides that he/she must act.

Posted by: RespectingOthers | January 10, 2011 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Based upon everything that I have read, Jared Loughner doesn't really have a political affliation. Each side wants to paint the other as responsible for the demented actions of this young man. The reality is that it is not the tea party or the RNC or the DNC. The discord which is evident here gives license to anyone who is off-hinged. We do have US citizens on TV and radio who seem to advocate shooting people often as jokes or to inflame their viewers. The problem of this type of inflamatory rhetoric are the unintended consequences. People who sit on the fringes latch onto these ideas. Honestly, that is why concerns about gun-toting citizens at Presidential events are discerning. I think that we need to stop looking at the political affliations and just look at the discourse which is shown here. Each side throws out the barb and the other side retorts with just as inflamatory a statement as the first. I do not worry about the actors/actresses in this conversation. I worry about the third person who sees the vitriolic remarks and decides that he/she must act.

Posted by: RespectingOthers | January 10, 2011 8:13 AM | Report abuse

@novelator,

You're right to ask about the virtual absence of questions about Loughner's family. What DOESN'T appear in news reports is often as telling -- and maybe moreso -- that what does appear.

But there's little that family can do in the face of full-blown mental illness. Schizophrenics are often the last ones to willingly submit to treatment. Refusal to cooperate may well be a symptom of the pathology itself.

Appealing to authorities isn't likely to be helpful in many settings -- especially when those authorities are as cash-strapped as so many agencies are these days. The mentally ill must veer into not just erratic behavior but develop into a seriousea threat to command attention, and even then a bit of pretense can get them sprung. They may have to pump bullets into 30-some college students and staff to elicit serious attention, and obviously it's too late by then.

Don't know what the right answer is; decades ago the mentally ill were abused and exploited at atrocious levels. Maybe there's a happy medium; maybe not.

@Hillman,

The Nazis took whatever they desired from citizens. In a society built on severe fear, the government doesn't need to have ownership documents for all objects. It seizes what it pleases -- what the rulers and their minions desire. Naziism came and went in a flash; Hitler was more focused on world domination than on quick implementation of socialism. Had he been successful in war, he or his followers could have been expected to become more intrusive in day-to-day life.

The Bolsheviks took decades to replace private farms with state-owned farms, killing millions or tens of millions of people during the transformation. Even China's "Great Leap Forward" took 25 years to unfold.

You wonder about liberals bailing out Wall Street? That's corporate capitalism, not free enterprise. It's a step on the road to serfdom. Meanwhile, the feds intensify strangulation of the economy. Feds have seized all student loans, seized the car companies but didn't protect them from bankruptcy (which they could have undergone as private entities), have taken over banks and other financial institutions and are poised to regulate the energy industry to the point where they might as well own it. They're also prepared to take over the health insurance industry with the help of zealous regulators. Due to public resistence, the Left decided to string out this seizure. That hardly means leftists aren't so intent on completing the process.

Obama famously said years ago that it could take 15 or 20 years to fully socialize medicine.

You dislike use of the term socialist? Obama's voting record was the most liberal in the Senate -- left of acknowledged socialist Bernie Sanders. Joe Biden ranked as third most leftist.

As for hating Jews, that's a leftist hallmark, as has been demonstrated in this thread.


Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 10, 2011 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Based upon everything that I have read, Jared Loughner doesn't really have a political affliation. Each side wants to paint the other as responsible for the demented actions of this young man. The reality is that it is not the tea party or the RNC or the DNC. The discord which is evident here gives license to anyone who is off-hinged. We do have US citizens on TV and radio who seem to advocate shooting people often as jokes or to inflame their viewers. The problem of this type of inflamatory rhetoric are the unintended consequences. People who sit on the fringes latch onto these ideas. Honestly, that is why concerns about gun-toting citizens at Presidential events are discerning. I think that we need to stop looking at the political affliations and just look at the discourse which is shown here. Each side throws out the barb and the other side retorts with just as inflamatory a statement as the first. I do not worry about the actors/actresses in this conversation. I worry about the third person who sees the vitriolic remarks and decides that he/she must act.

Posted by: RespectingOthers | January 10, 2011 8:13 AM | Report abuse

This guy obviously needed someone to give him a serious beat down and my guess is his old man is a ball-less wonder for raising this piece of trash...

Posted by: mjandrews8 | January 10, 2011 8:09 AM | Report abuse

It is clear from the behavior of leftists that modern liberalism is a mental disorder.

A disorder built primarily upon the conditioned mechanism of denial.

It is not unexpected that one of the many available miseducated individuals will have proven portions of my earlier brief dissertation correct so quickly.

You seem to miss, dismissively, even the most obvious truth.

Nazi's were self-identified socialists as is so plainly evidenced by their political party name, "National Socialist Workers Party".

Would anti-socialists claim socialism in their political party name and platform if they were against socialism?

Don't be foolish. You are remiss to deny such an obvious fact of history.


Intellectual dishonesty is emblematic and typical of socialist / Marxist / fascist / communist indoctrination, education and conditioning.


It is a necessary step that Hitler is claimed by socialists as one of their own in order to begin overcoming the confines of the liberal mental disorder.

Hitler was just one in a long and continuing line of tyrants that have come out of the leftist ideological sewer.

Furthermore, in order to avoid continued repetition of the horrific, and destructive consequences of the socialist / Marxist/ fascist / communist mind set, it is essential that the leftist ideological framework central to Nazism is disclosed, recognized, and rejected in all its socialist iterations past and present.

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 10, 2011 7:57 AM | Report abuse

Furthermore, in order to avoid continued repetition of the horrific, and destructive consequences of the socialist / Marxist/ fascist / communist mind set, it is essential that the leftist ideological framework central to Nazism is disclosed, recognized, and rejected in all its socialist iterations past and present.

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 10, 2011 7:47 AM | Report abuse

Hitler was a pagan and a socialist who hated capitalism and free enterprise , read his book Mein Kampf to verify this fact. Get the DVD "The Soviet Story" to help educate yourselves about the socialist brothers, Hitler and Stalin of the 1930's and 1940's. Also see this recent article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341272/Hitlers-Christmas-party-Rare-photographs-capture-leading-Nazis-celebrating-1941.html

Nazi is an abbreviation for "National Socialist Workers Party". Fascism is a term created by the Marxist Benito Mussolini. He was one of Hitler's fellow leftists. Fascism is a compound word wherein Mussolini joined the ancient Latin word fascis, with Marxism. Marxism is of course the basis for modern day socialism, and fascis means "bundle of rods" -- a symbol of statist power. All together a decidedly leftist approach to government.

Reality check--- no conservative is a socialist. Conservatives are by nature and common sense against socialism and all such leftist ideologies and murderous ways.

Leftists properly should claim Hitler as one of their own along with the other prominent mass murders of that past 100 years -- Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, among many others too numerous to name. The death toll in only the last 80 years exceeds 150 million murdered, in the name of that leftist ideology and those values.

It appears Jared Lee Loughner is among those with leftist motivations wanting to change the world. The congresswomen who was shot, Loughner said, was not left enough.

Leftists would be wise to wake up and honestly examine their history and thereby become aware of what horror their politics and ideology manifests in the world. This horror is a repeated pattern and not difficult to identify, even in its earliest stages.

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 10, 2011 7:34 AM | Report abuse

Her e-mails were probably funny at the time. Not so much in hindsight.

Posted by: randysbailin | January 10, 2011 7:29 AM | Report abuse

"It is clear from the behavior of leftists that modern liberalism is a mental disorder. A disorder built primarily upon the conditioned mechanism of denial.

Nazi's were self-identified socialists as is so plainly evidenced by their political party name, "National Socialist Workers Party"."

See, now, that's just contributing to the hate that's already out there.

Suggesting that your opponents are mentally ill? How is that helpful?

But it is worth noting that your grasp of Hitler's political movement is stunningly incorrect. First, Nazis were all about capitalism and private property. Plus, of course, that whole thing about hating the Jews and all.

And exactly how are todays 'liberals' socialist? Did they not bail out Wall Street? Did they not pass on their one chance to get actual socialized medicine?

Calling your opponents Nazis and socialists simply isn't helpful. It helps foster a hateful society.

Posted by: TheHillman | January 10, 2011 7:28 AM | Report abuse

Astonishing.

Confronted with a stream of posts that stuck with reasoning and mostly irrefutable fact instead of indulging in name-calling and insults, the Left has been silenced in this space. Its adherents don't know how to respond.

Readers who haven't fully decided on how much credence to give to the Left, take note. There's lots of good information in this thread about how the Left thinks and behaves. See it in action. It's not necessary to read the entire thread to get the flavor. Not every anti-left post is a gem, but there are enough substantive ones to lay out a pattern.

Good day to all.

Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 10, 2011 7:25 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:22 AM | Report abuse

This blatant leftist was a disturbed individual, who had blatently left leaning ideas and idologies. He's one of your's lefties, and NOT a product of the right. He's one of your's! Accept it, and stop pointing fingers!

Posted by: barrysal | January 10, 2011 7:19 AM | Report abuse

This blatant leftist was a disturbed individual, who had blatently left leaning ideas and idologies. He's one of your's lefties, and NOT a product of the right. He's one of your's! Accept it, and stop pointing fingers!

Posted by: barrysal | January 10, 2011 7:18 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:18 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:18 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:18 AM | Report abuse

This blatant leftist was a disturbed individual, who had blatently left leaning ideas and idologies. He's one of your's lefties, and NOT a product of the right. He's one of your's! Accept it, and stop pointing fingers!

Posted by: barrysal | January 10, 2011 7:16 AM | Report abuse

Furthermore, in order to avoid continued repetition of the horrific, and destructive consequences of the socialist / Marxist/ fascist / communist mind set, it is essential that the leftist ideological framework central to Nazism is disclosed, recognized, and rejected in all its socialist iterations past and present.

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 10, 2011 7:14 AM | Report abuse

I see a lot of people on this thread asking why the government didn't step in to prevent this tragedy.

WHERE IS THIS KID'S PARENTS?

Who are the parents? He wasn't hatched in some incubator. So, why isn't the mainstream media busy tracking down this kid's parents? It's not the government's job to parent--and I don't want the Feds thinking for a moment that it is--I want to hear from Loughner's parents. What kind of home life did this boy have? And even more important--what is his prescription drug history? Not his pot-smoking, but what kind of prescription drugs did he take--as a child, as a teenager, as a young adult?

Was he a ritalin baby? Was he taking prozak or zoloft or any of the other psychotropic drugs being pushed by Big Pharma onto our entire population as a cure-all for what ails, imaginary or otherwise? After all, these drugs aren't all that well-tested, ritalin being the only one with years of human guinea-pigging behind it. Are they still feeding children ritalin? Or has Big Pharma backed off on that?

Come on now. WaPo and the other media who are currently backing off on this story to absolve themselves of any responsibility for promoting hate or division in this country have plenty of angles left to discover and report on.

But all of you asking where was the government should be asking where was this kid's parents, where is his family? Obviously his need for attention had become critical. If he didn't have any family, I'm sure we would've heard about it by now. Or maybe not.

Posted by: novelator | January 10, 2011 7:14 AM | Report abuse

It is clear that American conservatism is in no way similar to European fascism / socialism.

Quiet to the contrary, American conservatism is opposed to all forms of socialism. So why do the liberal, Marxist elitists insist on calling conservatives Nazis and fascists?

Because as Karl Marx taught :

"Accuse your enemy of being what you are, of doing what you are doing. It will confound and confuse your enemy, and all those useful idiots needed so you can gain control of the machine of government."

It is clear from the behavior of leftists that modern liberalism is a mental disorder. A disorder built primarily upon the conditioned mechanism of denial.

Nazi's were self-identified socialists as is so plainly evidenced by their political party name, "National Socialist Workers Party".

Would anti-socialists claim socialism in their political party name and platform if they were against socialism? Don't be foolish. You are remiss to deny such an obvious fact of history. Intellectual dishonesty is emblematic and typical of socialist / Marxist / fascist / communist indoctrination, education and conditioning.

It is a necessary step that Hitler is claimed by socialists as one of their own in order to begin overcoming the confines of the liberal mental disorder.

Hitler was just one in a long and continuing line of tyrants that have come out of the leftist ideological sewer.

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 10, 2011 7:12 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind seeing this Progressive smearing. In fact, I get a charge out of it because I understand what the outcome will be.

This tactic worked rather well after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but this isn't 1995 and far too many people no longer trust the Marx Stream Media. Nowadays, the Internet has become the choice.

Let's just see how well these smears work out for you Progressives when 2012 rolls around.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | January 10, 2011 7:09 AM | Report abuse

Hitler was a pagan and a socialist who hated capitalism and free enterprise , read his book Mein Kampf to verify this fact. Get the DVD "The Soviet Story" to help educate yourselves about the socialist brothers, Hitler and Stalin of the 1930's and 1940's. Also see this recent article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341272/Hitlers-Christmas-party-Rare-photographs-capture-leading-Nazis-celebrating-1941.html

Nazi is an abbreviation for "National Socialist Workers Party". Fascism is a term created by the Marxist Benito Mussolini. He was one of Hitler's fellow leftists. Fascism is a compound word wherein Mussolini joined the ancient Latin word fascis, with Marxism. Marxism is of course the basis for modern day socialism, and fascis means "bundle of rods" -- a symbol of statist power. All together a decidedly leftist approach to government.

Reality check--- no conservative is a socialist. Conservatives are by nature and common sense against socialism and all such leftist ideologies and murderous ways.

Leftists properly should claim Hitler as one of their own along with the other prominent mass murders of that past 100 years -- Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, among many others too numerous to name. The death toll in only the last 80 years exceeds 150 million murdered, in the name of that leftist ideology and those values.

It appears Jared Lee Loughner is among those with leftist motivations wanting to change the world. The congresswomen who was shot, Loughner said, was not left enough.

Leftists would be wise to wake up and honestly examine their history and thereby become aware of what horror their politics and ideology manifests in the world. This horror is a repeated pattern and not difficult to identify, even in its earliest stages.

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 10, 2011 7:02 AM | Report abuse

The involuntary psychiatric commitment laws need to be changed so that parents can have recourse when they have a psychotic, violent or suicidal youngster in their home. This shooter should have been automatically locked away for threatening violence. If you threaten the life of someone or even your own life you need to be put away.

Posted by: Dipsy1 | January 10, 2011 6:47 AM | Report abuse

The involuntary psychiatric commitment laws need to be changed so that parents can have recourse when they have a psychotic, violent or suicidal youngster in their home. This shooter should have been automatically locked away for threatening violence.

Posted by: Dipsy1 | January 10, 2011 6:45 AM | Report abuse


An obviously liberal reader who jumped on me for a recent post brought up an excellent subject in his or her statement (I can’t describe it as an argument, because the contributors who attacked me typically resorted 100-percent to personal, ad hominem attacks, with not a single fact or bit of reasoning to be found in their fulminations).

This reader makes reference to U.S. Rep. Joe (?) Wilson, who accused B. Obama of lying and paid the price when Nancy Pelosi’s Congress came down on him like a volcano.

Compare this instance of leftist punishment with leftist response when wacko leftist U.S. Rep. Fortney “Pete” Stark delivered remarks during a congressional session in which actually said – look it up – that George W. Bush sent soldiers to their deaths for his personal amusement. Yes, indeed, he said it.

A Republican congressman demanded that Stark’s comments be stricken. Maneuvers ensued on both sides, ending in Democratic blockage of any suggestion that Stark was out of line or his incendiary remarks did not befit congressional debate. In effect, the Democratic majority indicated it stood behind Stark’s remarks, which were no more than a hate-filled rant.

Wilson, in contrast, can defend his statement, which was extremely mild in comparison with Stark’s. Many politicians – probably most, if not the vast majority – are liars, and Obama ranks with some of the top. If anyone wants a partial or representative list, just ask, and plenty of readers will no doubt be plenty happy to oblige.

This is a fine example of who his ruining the political climate in this country, and who is too often inclined to ignore all bounds of decency and honor. The number-2 Democrat in the U.S. Senate likened U.S. facilities and practices at Guantanamo Bay to Jewish concentration camps and Pol Pot’s killing fields and to Soviet prison camps.

If this post receives any response from the Left it will no doubt consist of more personal rhetoric devoid of logic or fact. Those of you who can’t stop yourselves from lashing out should know you’ve been wrong on virtually every count. I’m not a Tea Partier or even a conservative. I will never vote for Sarah Palin, have never shot a firearm, don’t even eat meat or other animal products. But I know the Left from personal observation and study and from family experience, for the Left drove my family from Europe – those who escaped death, anyway. Not that I’m seeking sympathy – I didn’t experience the terror or torment personally, and leftists are notoriously insensitive to harm – even genocide – imposed by fellow leftists.

Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 10, 2011 6:42 AM | Report abuse

It's amusing how so many people have already jumped to conclusions on this guy based on their political point of view. From all accounts, the shooter is seriously disturbed. When the truth comes out, it'll probably turn out that he was carrying out orders issued by the neighbor's poodle.

Posted by: randysbailin | January 10, 2011 6:41 AM | Report abuse

This young man was deranged and battling demons. His delusions did not start with the June 1st email thread by community college students and teachers. He had been sick for many years prior to that.

This young man was destined to snap - the means and opportunity were made available to him during this event, and in his warped mind, he saw these people as the enemy.

It could have been any group of people, at any event.

What is most disturbing about this event however is sane and logical thinking people who were in his life on a regular basis, and knew he was deranged and entertaining dark thoughts, said nothing until after the fact.

All the gun law revisions or personal secruity for Congress Critters will accomplish nothing nor prevent this from recurring.

As long as people make excuses for friends and/or fellow student who are trouble or doing something dangerous and/or illegal, rather than speak out, they clear the way for events like this.

Posted by: asmith1 | January 10, 2011 6:27 AM | Report abuse

There’s a lot of gibberish in this space about the proper siting of Naziism (National Socialism) on the political spectrum. As a descendant of refugees from the Nazis, I’d like to add some clarity to the matter.

A contention has been repeated here that Naziism was a right-wing movement because it traded on nationalism. Those who believe this quirky reasoning evidently believe that Mao Tse-Tung in China, Pol Lot in Cambodia, Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam, more obscure African tyrants in the 1960s and 1970s and a veritable parade of other Marxist despots must have been conservatives (right-wingers) because they talked a nationalist line.

Of course, that’s ridiculous, and to believe that Mao or Castro or Hugo Chavez are on the Right because they claim nationalistic fealty totally negates the concept of a political spectrum.

The Left is characterized by progressively stronger government; the more powerful it is, the farther left is that government, plain and simple. German Nazis had little trouble integrating themselves into East Germany’s Communist political structure after WW II; they didn’t fare as well in free, capitalistic West Germany.

The racism emblemic of leftist government is also a constant. Jews are persecuted in all left-wing totalitarian states, for example, as are other faiths. Hitler was an occultist. He derived his theories about Aryan purity and ethnic differences from the eugenics movement right in the USA – a left-rooted movement that persecuted ethnic and other minorities, including the disabled. Eugenicists believed in forced abortion, forced sterilizations and other practices that struck Hitler as very congenial.

The Far Right also leans toward heavy government control, but it is largely satisfied with maintaining unthreatened authority as opposed to purging the populace of independent thought and will. Mussolini might be categorized as right-leaning. It’s notable that Fascists didn’t persecute Jews and other minorities as Nazis and Communists did, and Fascists didn’t lust for genocide and human annihilation as did his far-left Nazi and Communist counterparts.

The insistence of liberals on obscuring the proper placement of Naziism on the spectrum only supports the understanding that liberalism itself is rooted in deception and a dark interior lurking behind a pleasant mask. George Orwell, a socialist himself, pulled back the curtain in his most famous novels.

Communism and Naziism are conjoined twins. To believe one of those is leftist and one is rightist is tantamount to thinking that one front tire only turns left and the other only turns right.

Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 10, 2011 6:05 AM | Report abuse

Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
Obama on ACORN: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

Nothing like good ole "right-wing" hatred and violence, right liberals?

Posted by: TBell02 | January 10, 2011 5:39 AM | Report abuse

The shooter was a leftist...how many tea party Republicans list the communist manifesto as favorite reading material? I'd say none to zero. here's the youtube link that lists this whackos favohttp://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10rite books.

Posted by: thrushjz | January 10, 2011 5:32 AM | Report abuse

shakingmyhead2: Typical right wing ideologue, who spend most of their time pounding square pegs into round holes.

Posted by: paul10 | January 10, 2011 5:22 AM | Report abuse

@shakingmyhead2: Considering how smart you're trying to make yourself sound -- maybe you should turn in your tea-crazy card for an elitist liberal one. I know how you Tea Partiers love to call us uppity, un-American, commies, while carying your "hunting" automatic weapons to Obama speeches, quoting a constitution you've never read, and of course cheering on the Wilson's of the world who shouts at the president while he's addressing Congress. Yeah, there's great pride in being one of the angry TeaPartyRepublicans. In fact, your leader, Sarah Palin, is the instigator of all this rising ire. It's still mind-boggling how a woman with less intelligence than a tree stump could actually convince half the country of revolt -- while spouting off "code words" about Obama's ethnicity and if he wears a flag-pin or not, or "pals around with terrorists." Forgive us lowly lying liberals if we actually believe that words matter.

Posted by: rimbaud1 | January 10, 2011 5:19 AM | Report abuse

shakingmyhead2: Typical right wing ideologue, who spend most of their time pounding square pegs into round holes.

Posted by: paul10 | January 10, 2011 5:17 AM | Report abuse

shakingmyhead2: definitely part of the problem

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 5:10 AM | Report abuse

Anybody ever consider psychotropic drugs? Ritalin or Prozac as a kid? 25% of all children now are on psychotropic drugs. This isn't the "pepsi generation" anymore folks, we now live in the Ritalin Generation. Unpredictable behavior like this will soon be everywhere, so get ready for one hell of a ride.

Posted by: LiveLoadscom | January 10, 2011 5:08 AM | Report abuse

to nac200:

Sorry -I had a couple of typos in there (4:45AM!). please feel free to jump on them as evidence of my drunken state. or, better yet, please repost your original diatribe in modern english.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 4:58 AM | Report abuse

A few minutes ago I detailed the history of political assassination in this country as being mainly a leftist phenomenon but ran out of space. The next few paragraphs will further flesh out this subject.

Jihadists who attacked the U.S. in 2001 targeted a Republican White House and Congress. To this day the Left is much more sympathetic to jihadists’ motives, their so-called rights and in general their ilk than are Republicans and the public in general, in part because the Left tends to share their disdain toward Israel and U.S. power in the world. Left-wing agitation about Guantanamo Bay, supposed U.S. anti-Muslim sentiment and similar grievances clearly ratchet up the climate for jihadi attacks, including assassinations.

Left-wing radical John Lennon was killed by an admirer, presumably a leftist, who may have been influenced by Lennon’s politics, for all we know. Leftist hero Che Guevera was relegated to martyrdom by Fidel Castro, who feared his popularity. The Left routinely engages in assassination across the world; the most famous instances to us may be the plots to kill 20th-century popes by Communist officials. One assassin spilled papal blood but not fatally.

Other posters here have listed incendiary, militant, bloody-red-shirt remarks from President Barack Obama himself – not surprising for a man who for 20 years listened sympathetically to a self-styled minister who radiates hatred for the United States and reserves his greatest esteem for violent thugs (the Rev. Wright awarded his church’s highest award to veteran despot, Marxist and terrorist Moammar Ghadaffi).

A climate of hate, violence and extremism may truly afflict our politics. That’s typical when the Left is on the prowl for power and encounters resistence.

Leftist rallies around the world, including the U.S. and Canada, are apt to veer toward violence and physical attacks; consider the vast damage done by thousands of demonstraters when world political leaders converge to discuss trade and other cooperation. Consider how major left-wing rallies in Washington, D.C., leave behind property destruction and massive messes, while right-wing and non-political rallies take place without such damage.

If you don’t submit to the Left, it will savage you.

The attempts to link Loughner to politics, articularly of the Tea Party stripe, are pitiful, and those who champion such a ridiculous argument may be as bent as the assassin himself.

To repeat: The Left’s fulmination about the latest outburst of violence is merely theater -- an opportunistic diversionary tactic. The thrust of violent behavior and encouragement for blood-letting in this country emanates overwhelmingly from the Left, not from the Right, the Center or the great pool of independents. It surfaces from the same wellspring that fuels the relatively restrained liberal movement and its more radical cousins, including fascism, communism and national socialism.

Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 10, 2011 4:57 AM | Report abuse

A few minutes ago I detailed the history of political assassination in this country as being mainly a leftist phenomenon but ran out of space. The next few paragraphs will further flesh out this subject.

Jihadists who attacked the U.S. in 2001 targeted a Republican White House and Congress. To this day the Left is much more sympathetic to jihadists’ motives, their so-called rights and in general their ilk than are Republicans and the public in general, in part because the Left tends to share their disdain toward Israel and U.S. power in the world. Left-wing agitation about Guantanamo Bay, supposed U.S. anti-Muslim sentiment and similar grievances clearly ratchet up the climate for jihadi attacks, including assassinations.

Left-wing radical John Lennon was killed by an admirer, presumably a leftist, who may have been influenced by Lennon’s politics, for all we know. Leftist hero Che Guevera was relegated to martyrdom by Fidel Castro, who feared his popularity. The Left routinely engages in assassination across the world; the most famous instances to us may be the plots to kill 20th-century popes by Communist officials. One assassin spilled papal blood but not fatally.

Other posters here have listed incendiary, militant, bloody-red-shirt remarks from President Barack Obama himself – not surprising for a man who for 20 years listened sympathetically to a self-styled minister who radiates hatred for the United States and reserves his greatest esteem for violent thugs (the Rev. Wright awarded his church’s highest award to veteran despot, Marxist and terrorist Moammar Ghadaffi).

A climate of hate, violence and extremism may truly afflict our politics. That’s typical when the Left is on the prowl for power and encounters resistence.

Leftist rallies around the world, including the U.S. and Canada, are apt to veer toward violence and physical attacks; consider the vast damage done by thousands of demonstraters when world political leaders converge to discuss trade and other cooperation. Consider how major left-wing rallies in Washington, D.C., leave behind property destruction and massive messes, while right-wing and non-political rallies take place without such damage.

If you don’t submit to the Left, it will savage you.

The attempts to link Loughner to politics, articularly of the Tea Party stripe, are pitiful, and those who champion such a ridiculous argument may be as bent as the assassin himself.

To repeat: The Left’s fulmination about the latest outburst of violence is merely theater -- an opportunistic diversionary tactic. The thrust of violent behavior and encouragement for blood-letting in this country emanates overwhelmingly from the Left, not from the Right, the Center or the great pool of independents. It surfaces from the same wellspring that fuels the relatively restrained liberal movement and its more radical cousins, including fascism, communism and national socialism.

Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 10, 2011 4:56 AM | Report abuse

A few minutes ago I detailed the history of political assassination in this country as being mainly a leftist phenomenon but ran out of space. The next few paragraphs will further flesh out this subject.

Jihadists who attacked the U.S. in 2001 targeted a Republican White House and Congress. To this day the Left is much more sympathetic to jihadists’ motives, their so-called rights and in general their ilk than are Republicans and the public in general, in part because the Left tends to share their disdain toward Israel and U.S. power in the world. Left-wing agitation about Guantanamo Bay, supposed U.S. anti-Muslim sentiment and similar grievances clearly ratchet up the climate for jihadi attacks, including assassinations.

Left-wing radical John Lennon was killed by an admirer, presumably a leftist, who may have been influenced by Lennon’s politics, for all we know. Leftist hero Che Guevera was relegated to martyrdom by Fidel Castro, who feared his popularity. The Left routinely engages in assassination across the world; the most famous instances to us may be the plots to kill 20th-century popes by Communist officials. One assassin spilled papal blood but not fatally.

Other posters here have listed incendiary, militant, bloody-red-shirt remarks from President Barack Obama himself – not surprising for a man who for 20 years listened sympathetically to a self-styled minister who radiates hatred for the United States and reserves his greatest esteem for violent thugs (the Rev. Wright awarded his church’s highest award to veteran despot, Marxist and terrorist Moammar Ghadaffi).

A climate of hate, violence and extremism may truly afflict our politics. That’s typical when the Left is on the prowl for power and encounters resistence.

Leftist rallies around the world, including the U.S. and Canada, are apt to veer toward violence and physical attacks; consider the vast damage done by thousands of demonstraters when world political leaders converge to discuss trade and other cooperation. Consider how major left-wing rallies in Washington, D.C., leave behind property destruction and massive messes, while right-wing and non-political rallies take place without such damage.

If you don’t submit to the Left, it will savage you.

The attempts to link Loughner to politics, articularly of the Tea Party stripe, are pitiful, and those who champion such a ridiculous argument may be as bent as the assassin himself.

To repeat: The Left’s fulmination about the latest outburst of violence is merely theater -- an opportunistic diversionary tactic. The thrust of violent behavior and encouragement for blood-letting in this country emanates overwhelmingly from the Left, not from the Right, the Center or the great pool of independents. It surfaces from the same wellspring that fuels the relatively restrained liberal movement and its more radical cousins, including fascism, communism and national socialism.

Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 10, 2011 4:56 AM | Report abuse

BPoilspill (this is gonna get real fun!)

I am a Christian. Have been all my life. Acolyte, Youth Group leader, Master of the Acolyte's guild, Virger, lay minister. God has blessed me with a good life, and to Him I am truly grateful and by Him I am humbled.

But my faith doesn't believe in making statements like: "What've YOU done pea brain?
Bloody bloody saraweston, YOU should hide! YOU should shut the hell up!AND YOU are the "silly follower" of the Socialist Bastards you voted for."

Was that very Christian of you? Perhaps a little more New Testament and less Old Testament for you, brother.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 4:52 AM | Report abuse

As seen from Norway...
(You will have to excuse my possible bad english)

Sitting in Norway, reading about the tragic incident, some thoughts come to mind. Some reactions on other posters' meanings as well.

First: The nazi regime is concidered a right wing movement, not a left wing, even though Hitler called his party a labour party. He did so to get the german people to support him. So if the Tea Party movement calls the assassin a left-winger, given he liked Mein Kampf, then you americans have a serious problem...

I will not concider myself an expert (maybe not even a novice) on american constitution, but some results of it seem odd to a norseman:

-Guns
A lot of american fights for the right to own guns. Why? Freedom for an individual? Yes, OK, but possible captivity for several others. In Norway, where guns are prohibited except for competing gunners and hunters, which will need a license, there are far less killings and woundings per capita than in USA.

-Equality for all
Your constitution demands equal rights and possibilities for all citizens, as far as I know. Where is that equality when it comes to politics? More or less every Governor, Senator and President I know of
have come to office due to the fact that their personal economy give them the possibilty to do so. And you even accept campaign contributions from companies???
Here in Norway this kind of support would be deemed as corruption or possible corruption, which are illegal. (We've just had such a case.)

And where is the equality when it comes to education? You have to pay to attend good schools all the way from primary? Here almost all schools are public, and we don't do that bad, do we?

I will stop there, expressing my compassion to the victims and their families and friends. But I have to add that given your political retorics and negative campaigning against other parties, I am not surprised. Unfortunately.
And given you gun legislation, such episodes will occur form time to time.

Best regards from a norseman
(Placed in the middle of the norwegian political landscape)

Posted by: svevar | January 10, 2011 4:50 AM | Report abuse

nac200 -

Perhaps if you posted you original point in something resembling clear english I could respond. Your retort was much clearer; perhaps you are sobering up. To wit:

chaspari1 what are you trying to prove with your wikipedia post?

wikipedia?

Yes jim jones was what kkk?

jim jones? when did I ever mention jim jones?

that was started by the dems.

um, all of whom switched partied to the modern GOP after the civil rights bill passed

Remember the senator grand kleagle from west virginia.

no, who is he?

all you have shown is that yes another left wing crazy was a sadistic killer as was.

sorry, not english

The communist that killed kennedy or the muslim that killed the other one or the left wing nut james earl ray.

huh? killed the other muslim? killed the other communist? james earl ray was a segragationist, white supremacist and follower of George Wallace, who was booted from the Democratic party for his racist views.

Hmm I am starting to see a pattern here anyone else?

yeah, no sensical writing.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 4:37 AM | Report abuse

Gaspfarti or whatever -
You are sneering at several Billion "FINAL DAYS FREAKS", ie "Christians" many of whom are a lot more intelligent and educated than you will ever hope to be. We believe that the 300 prophesies in the Old Testament, pointing to The Messiah, and the prophesies in the New Testament, pointing to the re-creation of the Nation of Israel as a sign of the end-times, have been fulfilled.
You don't hesitate to write off as idiots and fools, people who have done most of the good works in the past two millenia. Most of the Hospitals and universities and schools in the Civilized world, were started by Christian churches.
Even today, and my church is one of many, my church gives out 1 1/2 million meals a year to the poor, visits prisoners, prays for the sick, helps those whose houses were burned and many other good deeds too many to mention. Don't sneer, my brother - do!

Posted by: bloodypest | January 10, 2011 4:35 AM | Report abuse

SS, I think you miss the point altogether. I am not ascribing Nazism to the American right. I am saying they share a similar rhetoric and recruitment method. I also - rightly I would argue - point out that the German Nazis were a right-leaning phenomenon (a point which you can feel free to argue, but which is really irrelevant to this discussion; should you choose to pursue this avenue of argument, you shall do so alone - it really doesn't matter to me, but rather - apparently - only to those who do not want to see any fault whatsoever with their "side").

I don't think you can point to where I said whether he was a deranged leftist or rightie. I merely said the tenor of the current political discussion is one that could easily push one over the delicate brink on which an already dangerously unhinged person might teeter.

Let me ask you, bottom line: If some loon were reading this thread and decided to kill me for being an american-hating, commie-loving leftist (none of which I am), the final straw being his reading the vile name calling herein and choosing his target accordingly, should the posters here who have engaged in this nonsense feel a whit of guilt? Answer honestly, please. Words do matter. And so does taking responsibility for ones use of them. It's what grown-ups do.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 4:26 AM | Report abuse

Nice retort glad you did not address the post. Proves that you are nothing more then a person trolling and lucky to have a 3rd grade edumication. though you may be right you could be anyone of the three things you posted im guessing drunk though.

Posted by: nac200 | January 10, 2011 4:25 AM | Report abuse

Nice retort glad you did not address the post. Proves that you are nothing more then a person trolling. And lucky to have a 3rd grade edumication.

Posted by: nac200 | January 10, 2011 4:23 AM | Report abuse

Nice retort glad you did not address the post. Proves that you are nothing more then a person trolling. And lucky to have a 3rd grade edumication.

Posted by: nac200 | January 10, 2011 4:22 AM | Report abuse

chaspari1 what are you trying to prove with your wikipedia post? Yes jim jones was what kkk? that was started by the dems. Remember the senator grand kleagle from west virginia. all you have shown is that yes another left wing crazy was a sadistic killer as was. The communist that killed kennedy or the muslim that killed the other one or the left wing nut james earl ray. Hmm I am starting to see a pattern here anyone else?

Posted by: nac200
------
Yep - I see a pattern of either drunkeness, stupidity or a fifth-grade edumication.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 4:13 AM | Report abuse

Chaspari1: Of course the discussion about the killer’s interests in far left writings such as Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto, among many other reported facts indicating Jared was yet another disturbed leftist, e.g., that he worked for the campaign for the Democrat congresswoman he killed, is all about pointing out Jared is yet another violently insane leftist. You argued he is not so it obviously did matter to you. I assume you concede that he is by now saying it is not relevant. History defines nothing. People do. And the incompetent political spectrum and assignment of socialist ideology to the far right you refer to is defined by those on the left like yourself to disown embarrassing, murderous fellow socialists. Taking one facet of the NAZI party (ultra-nationalism) while ignoring the socialist aspect to reassign the socialist political ideology of NAZIs to the far right is decidedly incompetent. Also, you are confusing my remarks with getuponthewheel remarks. Leftists have proven time and again that they do not practice intellectual hygiene. Some leftists, e.g., Jared Loughner, Amy Bishop, Ted Kaczynski, Bill Ayers, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, are intellectual colostomy bags waiting to explode. The bodies of tens of millions of people across the globe in less than a century prove this.

Posted by: SharpShtik | January 10, 2011 4:08 AM | Report abuse

National Socialists, Nazis are much like the liberal Democrats. Basically Statists.
Socialists in Ca. like Nostrildamus Waxman, and Bird-brain Boxer are attempting to control everything. We can't smoke, drink,use plastic bags, drive large cars,pray anywhere but the house and church,carry a gun (to defend ourselves from left wing Jared tree-huggers),ride motor-cycles bare-headed,drive a car without a seat belt,buy anything without paying exorbitant taxes,start a business etc.etc..

Posted by: bloodypest | January 10, 2011 4:06 AM | Report abuse

chaspari1 what are you trying to prove with your wikipedia post? Yes jim jones was what kkk? that was started by the dems. Remember the senator grand kleagle from west virginia. all you have shown is that yes another left wing crazy was a sadistic killer as was. The communist that killed kennedy or the muslim that killed the other one or the left wing nut james earl ray. Hmm I am starting to see a pattern here anyone else?

Posted by: nac200 | January 10, 2011 4:03 AM | Report abuse


Wow. Lots of finger-pointing here. So what IS the record for assassinations and attempted assassinations?

Since the end of WW II, there were no attempts on the lives of presidents Obama, the Bushes, Clinton, Nixon, LBJ or Ike -- at least attempts that matured. Carter claimed to have been attacked by a rabbit.

Republican Reagan was shot, almost to death, by a fancier of a young Hollywood starlet. Was he influenced by the “climate?” He WAS the target of a huge liberal firestorm – accused of wanting to take the nation to world war, among other fiery claims.

A follower of hard-core leftist-racist-rocker-revolutionary Charles Manson fired on President Ford. Was she influenced by left-wing propaganda? Maybe, but the Left blew it off. Ford was also stalked for a time by a man who eventually changed targets and almost shot Gov. George Wallace -- a former candidate for president-- to death, leaving him a paraplegic. Wallace’s segregationist support emanated primarily from the Right. Ford also was subjected to a deafening firestorm of attacks for pardoning Richard Nixon.

Democrat JFK was killed by a Marxist and devoted Fidel Castro aficionado who defected to the USSR but returned. Though a Democrat, JFK hewed largely to conservative tenets – minimal taxation, military might (including the Space Race), militant anti-Communism, resistence to dramatic civil rights reforms and so on. His brother Bobby was one of Sen. Joe McCarthy’s top lieutenants and most fervent supporters. The assassin Oswald targeted one or more right wing generals before moving in on JFK.

Democrat Harry Truman, considered to be a moderate liberal, was targeted by radical leftist Puerto Rican gunmen who actually reached the White House but were captured before they could reach their presidential target.

We could go further, but let’s just leave it at this: History teaches that leftists (usually described as “anarchists” in texts but in actuality they weren’t interested in minimalist government that defines real anarchists) went after other presidents and injured or killed some, including consecutive presidents McKinley and Theodore Roosevelt.

So what about other major US assassination targets? Leftist Puerto Rican gunmen stormed the Capitol itself in the 1950s, gunning down several people and injuring members of Congress in their quest to achieve independence for their island territory.

The supposed tie between the latest assassin and traditional resistence to big government has the Left fulminating.That’s no more than an opportunistic diversionary tactic. The thrust of violent behavior and encouragement in this country emanates from the Left, not from the Right, the Center or the great pool of independents. It surfaces from the same wellspring that fuels the relatively restrained liberal movement and its more radical cousins, including fascism, communism and national socialism.

Posted by: shakingmyhead2 | January 10, 2011 4:02 AM | Report abuse

chaspari1 what are you trying to prove with your wikipedia post? Yes jim jones was what kkk? that was started by the dems. Remember the senator grand kleagle from west virginia. all you have shown is that yes another left wing crazy was a sadistic killer as was. The communist that killed kennedy or the muslim that killed the other one or the left wing nut james earl ray. Hmm I am starting to see a pattern here anyone else?

Posted by: nac200 | January 10, 2011 4:02 AM | Report abuse

chaspari1 what are you trying to prove with your wikipedia post? Yes jim jones was what kkk? that was started by the dems. Remember the senator grand kleagle from west virginia. all you have shown is that yes another left wing crazy was a sadistic killer as was. The communist that killed kennedy or the muslim that killed the other one or the left wing nut james earl ray. Hmm I am starting to see a pattern here anyone else?

Posted by: nac200 | January 10, 2011 4:01 AM | Report abuse

First the Tea Party members are "astroturf" then we were "racist" now we're "murderers".

Never let a murder go to waste, eh Libs? Not when you can use it to smear your opponents with blood libel. It appears you already had your stories written and were waiting for the next nutjob to create mayhem as an opportunity to crank up the smear machine.

You "progressives" are hateful and disgusting.

Posted by: FreedomFan | January 10, 2011 3:59 AM | Report abuse

LMAO

Some think I'm a lefty commie/socialist and yvonneweston thinks I'm a supporter of right-wing nazi role-players. If that doesn't speak to the insanity you all are engaging in, what does?

bloodyfesteringsore or whatever... you use the Cyprus Times, a misattributed WSJ quote and the Bible for your support. Say no more; you are clearly one of the unhinged "final days" freaks. Shoo.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 3:48 AM | Report abuse

saraweston you have a brain the size of a humming bird!
Hatred of Sara Palin like you have is not logical and is based on a hatred of God and His people. Give us an example of her "race-baiting", her "bigotry," her "bloody hands" (when she said "reload" you know very well she meant "try again" whatever endeavor you were doing.)An example of her "judgment is just plain stupid" "she should just hide" - why? Because Cretins like you don't like her? Get real. She has the most popular show on TV right now. Her books are best sellers. What've YOU done pea brain?
Bloody bloody saraweston, YOU should hide! YOU should shut the hell up!AND YOU are the "silly follower" of the Socialist Bastards you voted for.

Posted by: bloodypest | January 10, 2011 3:45 AM | Report abuse

@yvonneweston - In reference to your Tea Party comment. The Boston tea party was to protest the British government, not our own government. Judging by your comments, the only difference between Jared Loughner and you, is that you haven't killed anyone, yet!

Posted by: jagged81 | January 10, 2011 3:44 AM | Report abuse

so... let's get this right once and for all SharpShtik (SS? Coincidence? We report; you decide! lol)...

In your world of absolute conservative truths, where there is the oft-cited precious little allowance for wiggle room... there is some greater political, eurpoean vs. american, place for relevance? This strikes me as the most ridiculous argument for your attempt at revisionist history.

But, to answer your question: yes. The most striking similarity between the Nazis and the current far-right in America is precisely that use of nationalism as a tool for recruitment, to foment hate and to divide and conquer. It is painted all over the rhetoric of the big talking heads on the right. This is but one element of Nazism, but it does not solely define it. While history has long-established the German Nazi movement as a far-right one, that is precisely the most relevant aspect of the comparison with the modern far-right in America.

But, please. Get over your apparent feeling that someone is calling Tea Partiers Nazis. They're not - they are just drawing comparisons. The mere fact that you bother to call me some of these other things points to your being nothing more than another far-right apologist who simply can't come to grips with the fact that the extremist wing of his own ideology is capable of inflicting great harm on society. I don't see that anyone here has actually called you a Nazi or anything; why do you feel the need to call someone what they are not?

Does the left have their share of the same kind of idiots? Sure. But... as the fans of right-wing pontificators are always quick to gloat about, lefties don't have nearly the ratings or the platform that the right-wing folks do. So, in the discussion about the level of elevated hate and violence-inciting rhetoric, the award clearly goes to the righties.

Now, as to your ad hominem nonsense, I'm neither Dem nor GOP. Certainly not a Tea Party freak, nor an ultra-left lib. Definitely not a socialist, but rather a pretty big advocate of our capitalist system. I'm the first to agree that far-left ideologies such as communism are self-destructive evils. Where you get off saying otherwise is either based on the ingrained rhetoric of a righty wing-nut or just simply poor debate - you decide.

Ultimately, it matters not whether this loon was lib/dem or con/gop... what matters is that in our national debate we have fomented an atmosphere where it is much more likely for someone to snap after hearing some of the ridiculous things being said by folks. Among these ridiculous things: folks on this board referring to anyone with whom they disagree as a commie or socialist, a baby killer, saying that Palin or Beck has blood on their hands or simply being unwilling to own up to the extremists in their own right or left-leaning ideology being at best a general nuisance to society or at worst contributing to the type of tragedy we saw in Arizona.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 3:38 AM | Report abuse

Alright Jared, stop posting as yvonneweston.

Posted by: SharpShtik | January 10, 2011 3:33 AM | Report abuse

SARAH PALIN and all her hate and bigotry has blood on her hands. Her chances of becoming President are over. Although she never had a chance anyway. Her judgement is just plain stupid. Crosshairs on Representatives telling people to RELOAD. Well they did and now woman, a child and seniors are dead. Palin's nonsense will reach more deranged people. BLOODY, BLOODY SARAH. She should hide. The real Mamma Grizzly is Gifford who is putting up a good fight for her life. Happy Now Sarah? Or do you need more lives to finally "shut the hell up" and stop all your hateful race baiting, hateful B.S. to satisfy your silly followers.

Posted by: yvonneweston | January 10, 2011 3:15 AM | Report abuse

Chaspari or whatever - ever heard of the EURO, a very recently invented new currency which the big money people have tried to impose on Europe?

Cypress Times Jan 9th
"Right now, President Obama is meeting with Chinese President Hu Jinao, and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev as part of the Group of 20 (G-20) summit in London.

On Wednesday, March 25th the Wall Street Journal reported the following:

“While in London, Obama also will meet U.K. Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Queen Elizabeth II, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and South Korean President Lee Myung-bak.

The April 1 sessions with Hu and Medvedev come after Chinese and Russian officials expressed support for the creation of a new global reserve currency, an idea the White House has repeatedly dismissed.

Earlier Wednesday, however, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said he was open to talking about a proposed expansion of the International Monetary Fund's special drawing-rights program, comments that sent the dollar down in foreign-exchange markets. The secretary later clarified his remarks, saying the greenback is likely to remain the world's dominant reserve currency.”

Along with the “one world currency” the Bible indicates the rise of a “one world government” to be ruled over by the Anti-Christ. Middle East expert, Joel Rosenberg, in an online article notes that political leaders from Europe, Africa, and the Middle East are proposing an end to the current economic order and instituting a single common currency, as well."

You bloody ignorance speaks volumes about your intelligence.

Posted by: bloodypest | January 10, 2011 3:10 AM | Report abuse

@Caspari...Your Republican candidate in Ohio wore Nazi uniforms on the weekends. Sounds like a "right wing" belief to me. Afterall he was one of your guys. Just sayin'. Wonder if he still has that outfit?

Posted by: yvonneweston | January 10, 2011 3:09 AM | Report abuse

Lupur,
You know not of what you speak. I am 56 years old and BOTH of my parents are survivors of the Holocaust (they are both 91). All four of my granparents were murdered as well as 9 aunts and uncles and countless cousins. Do you even know what the acronym NAZI means? Let me tell you. It is short for NAtionalsoZIalistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, in English, German National Socialist Workers' Party. Did you get that? SOCIALIST! It is you liberals that are trying to rewrite history.

Posted by: amh54 | January 10, 2011 3:08 AM | Report abuse

As usual, most of the posts are political spin trying to blame this tragedy on whomever. But for those posts seriously interested in getting to the bottom of this tragedy, my take is as follows:

While I don't profess to understand Mr. Loughner's motivation for such a heinous act, except perhaps that he had reportedly been slighted by Rep. Giffords at a previous event, it is hardly justified by shooting her and other innocent people as well.

But Loughner was obviously mentally ill and it's too bad that some colleges, especially after the Virginia Tech tragedy, apparently haven't yet learned how to deal with mental illness.

Simply reporting Loughner to the police or mental health authorities would have undoubtedly been a non-starter. But, on hindsight, requiring Loughner to take a mental health evaluation was, obviously, the wrong approach. All it did was prompt Loughner to withdraw from school.

I have known several mentally ill persons including two attorneys both diagnosed as bipolar paranoid schizophrenic and the last thing that they would ever admit to is any mental incapacity.

But they were susceptible to fixations over which they seemed to lose control. Which is why such individuals who may not initially appear to be dangerous could potentially become so.

Therefore, it would seem to me that colleges should have a psychiatrist or mental health professional that they can call on from time to time to come and have a friendly chat with an individual who is obviously experiencing problems such as bizarre behavior.

If such a procedure been followed the tragedies that occurred yesterday and at Virginia Tech could possibly have been avoided.

Posted by: billeisen1 | January 10, 2011 3:08 AM | Report abuse

In Europe they may describe it (NAZI) as "right wing", but in the United States, National Socialism doesn't fit on our scale. To us Socialism/Communism/Facism are very nearly the same. They are giant Godless movements that bring immense centralized governments that control markets and the masses. These are European imports to America, not the stuff of America or her history or her future.

I don't think it is reasonable to call Communism, Left and Nazism, Right when it comes to American politics.
There are some true Marxist and Communists in the US, and some with some influence and organizing skills. There's only a smattering of true Nazis, but none in any positions of influence or power.

But in either case, they are both European imports that need to be sent back where they came from. They have no place in our politics.

God Bless the USA.

Posted by: getuponthewheel | January 10, 2011 2:59 AM | Report abuse

Chaspari1, you and other leftists continue to co-locate on an unidentified political spectrum with unidentified definitions embarrassing murderous fellow socialists with conservatives you despise. You argue that moving both to the right and left of political center you wind up in statist socialism. Like your reasoning, the political spectrum and definitions you rely on are based on your embarrassment of a long and ever-growing list of mass murderers who share your political ideology combined with your hatred of those opposed to your political ideology instead of facts and logic.

Defining the National Socialist German Worker’s Party (the NAZI party) as “far-right” is based on what political spectrum with what definitions of political center, far left and far right? Look at the specific political spectrum you and other leftists use to co-locate embarrassing murderous fellow socialists with conservatives you despise. Is it based on a specific facet of the NAZI party such as nationalism without respect to the NAZI’s socialist socio-economic political system? We know it is.

Posted by: SharpShtik | January 10, 2011 2:58 AM | Report abuse

Jared was anti government. And that is a right wing Tea Party mantra. Jared is NOT left leaning and you are just pushing Fox News talking points. I see they got you guys together immediately. But everyone else knows who the real haters are. Stepping on the neck of people, accosting Parkinsons patients, putting crosshairs on Representatives and getting them shot in the head. And, once again, did Palin come out of hiding yet.. Or is that pitbully, murdering woman, children and seniors, thingy, thangy not working for her. Bloody hands Palin. And everyone is talking about her no matter how Fox News Baggers try to spin it. Jared was anti Government. Just like the guy who flew his plane into the building and that bunch running up on Capitol Hill with Koch Bros chartered buses.
Sorry Jared has the same ideology as Baggers. How he felt (4)years ago in H.S. no longer applies. He changed.

Posted by: yvonneweston | January 10, 2011 2:58 AM | Report abuse

yvonneweston you are so lame. What in h@#$% has Sarah Palin said that inspired this psychotic murderer, product of left wing Government schools, to gun down two beautiful conservative leaders, one of whom is a Christian, and one Jewish.

Posted by: bloodypest | January 10, 2011 2:55 AM | Report abuse

yvonneweston you are so lame. What in h@#$% has Sarah Palin said that inspired this psychotic murderer, product of left wing Government schools, to gun down two beautiful conservative leaders, one of whom is a Christian, and one Jewish.

Posted by: bloodypest | January 10, 2011 2:55 AM | Report abuse

yvonneweston said "Jared believed in Anti Government and a new currency." So Fox News, Rush, Hannity all have "bloody hands." And may I ask what do Obama, Soros, 90% of College Professors,Hollywood, most of the media,what do they want. A new World Government, a new world currency. How how is this left wing nutter different from them and you, dingbat?

Posted by: bloodypest
------
Who on the left wants a new world currency? Who wants a new world government?

Sheesh, stop watching and listening to the folks who foment the current level of hateful and divisive speech and rejoin the reality-based community. Please; we need more of you.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 2:51 AM | Report abuse

yvonneweston said "Jared believed in Anti Government and a new currency." So Fox News, Rush, Hannity all have "bloody hands." And may I ask what do Obama, Soros, 90% of College Professors,Hollywood, most of the media,what do they want. A new World Government, a new world currency. How how is this left wing nutter different from them and you, dingbat?

Posted by: bloodypest | January 10, 2011 2:47 AM | Report abuse

Nazism like communism is a left-wing ideology. Revisionists, however, like to put the label on the right wingers. Make no mistake that nazism like communism is about gov't control!! Hardly a right wing ideology. Conservatives believe in freedom and liberty.

Posted by: thetruth29
---
Um, fail. Nothing revisionist about it. do the research. The notion that Nazism is somehow a lefty thing didn't come about until it was well-established that every lick of common sense - not to mention scholarly study - had placed it well to the extreme right. The revisionism is yours I'm afraid.

Conservatives do believe in freedom and liberty. But, the far-right end of the conservative spectrum also believes that it really only applies to those of their own ilk and uses this xenophobia to whip up support among those who are most vulnerable to this line of reasoning. If you are conservative and think Nazism lies to the left, you are likely of this far-right cohort.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 2:45 AM | Report abuse

Check out this crazed gunman's background. Take a good look at these comments. I did. And boy, am I glad I recently abandoned 26 years of Democratic support. Posters such as yvonne, magifico, deinan ... please keep wallowing in your desperate, angry misery. It makes your cause look worse and worse with each passing day.

Posted by: cmeglio | January 10, 2011 2:40 AM | Report abuse

A left wing nut job , 22-year-old Jared Loughner, obsessed with Karl Marx guns down a Democrat and we the law abiding tax paying conservative freedom and liberty loving gun owning public have to suffer.

What the hell is going on in the USA? Its a nightmare.

Stop punishing the law abiding tax payers for the actions of a handful of people.

Jared Loughner:

- Tinkered with both anarchist ideas and leftwing politics
- Loughner had identified among his favorite books "The Communist Manifesto" by Karl Marx, Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" and the fiction classic "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest" - hardly the reading list of a conservative.
- Another Jared Loughner video shows a masked man burning the American flag
- Loughner suggests that he was rejected from entering the U.S. Army to which he applied because he was offered a "mini Bible" during the recruitment process, but that he declined to "write a belief on my Army application and the recruiter wrote on the application: None."
- While it is now known that Loughner worked for Gifford's election campaign in 2007, that Gifford subscribed to Loughner's website since Oct. 25, 2010, suggests the two may have been in contact more recently.
- Oddly, the only other YouTube channel Giffords subscribed to was that of former Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., who lost his seat in November to Republican challenger Vicky Hartzler.
- Killed a Republican appointed federal judge

A Godless America hating flag burning lover of the Communist Manifesto shooting a fellow-traveler (democrat) will lead to more illegal (Violates the Second Amendment) gun control?

We already have a nightmare oligarchical collectivist police state.

Posted by: mickrussom | January 10, 2011 2:40 AM | Report abuse

ByteRider:

Aren't you the same goofball who posted that list of all those Democrats that were assassins, but didn't understand that they were the far-right wingnuts of their time?

Get back to us on that when you've got a sec, m'kay?

LMAO @ total ignorance.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 2:39 AM | Report abuse

Lupur: When your perspective is communism I’m sure socialism looks far-right to you. Like fellow socialists and communists d/b/a Democrats, you also believe the only “solution” to the “man-made” “global warming” “crisis” is the usual solution you people offer, i.e. still more forced national and international wealth-redistribution. Defining the National Socialist German Worker’s Party (the NAZI party) as “far-right” is based on what political spectrum with what definitions of political center, far left and far right? Look at the specific political spectrum you and other leftists use to co-locate embarrassing murderous fellow socialists with conservatives you despise. Is it based on a specific facet of the NAZI party such as nationalism without respect to the NAZI’s socialist socio-economic political system? Like your reasoning, the political spectrum and definitions you rely on are based on your embarrassment and hatred instead of facts and logic.

Posted by: SharpShtik
___________
Your entire ranty screed is one big strawman

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 10, 2011 2:34 AM | Report abuse

Fox News people are funny. And trying desperately to spin this. Sarah Palin and her "crosshairs" on Gifford and then Gifford is shot in the head by one of her Anti Government lemmings.
In PaliBeck world President Obama did it because he said bring a gun to a knife fight. Let me tell you if someone is facing me with a knife I'm going to defend myself anyway I can.
But Palin attacked Gifford an she was unarmed and defenseless. Palin attacks the First Lady and she is unarmed. Then Palin hides behind Twitter, FB and Faux. Palin has done nothing but caused division, promote racism and hate since the first day. Now she has blood on her hands. And she finally took that "kill Democrats" map down because she knows she had blood on her hands. Bet people won't be so quick to "worship" her. NOW.

Posted by: yvonneweston | January 10, 2011 2:33 AM | Report abuse

Nazism like communism is a left-wing ideology. Revisionists, however, like to put the label on the right wingers. Make no mistake that nazism like communism is about gov't control!! Hardly a right wing ideology. Conservatives believe in freedom and liberty.

Posted by: thetruth29 | January 10, 2011 2:30 AM | Report abuse

Lupur: When your perspective is communism I’m sure socialism looks far-right to you. Like fellow socialists and communists d/b/a Democrats, you also believe the only “solution” to the “man-made” “global warming” “crisis” is the usual solution you people offer, i.e. still more forced national and international wealth-redistribution. Defining the National Socialist German Worker’s Party (the NAZI party) as “far-right” is based on what political spectrum with what definitions of political center, far left and far right? Look at the specific political spectrum you and other leftists use to co-locate embarrassing murderous fellow socialists with conservatives you despise. Is it based on a specific facet of the NAZI party such as nationalism without respect to the NAZI’s socialist socio-economic political system? Like your reasoning, the political spectrum and definitions you rely on are based on your embarrassment and hatred instead of facts and logic.

Posted by: SharpShtik | January 10, 2011 2:27 AM | Report abuse

Early life [of Jim Jones] from wikipedia...

Lynetta Putnam Jones, the mother of Jim JonesJim Jones was born in Crete, Indiana, a rural unincorporated community in Randolph County near the Ohio border,[2] to James Thurman Jones (May 31, 1887 – May 29, 1951), a World War I veteran, and Lynetta Putnam (April 16, 1902 – December 11, 1977).[3] He was of Irish and Welsh descent.[4] Jones would later claim partial Cherokee ancestry through his mother, though this was likely false according to his maternal second cousin Barbara Shaffer.[4][note 1] Economic difficulties during the Great Depression necessitated that Jones' family move to nearby Lynn, Indiana in 1934.[5] Jim Jones and a childhood friend both claimed that Jones' father was associated with the Ku Klux Klan.[5]

In interviews for the 2006 documentary Jonestown: The Life and Death of Peoples Temple, childhood acquaintances recalled Jones as being a "really weird kid" who was "obsessed with religion ... obsessed with death", and claimed that he frequently held funerals for small animals, and had reportedly fatally stabbed a cat as a young child.[6]

Jones was a voracious reader as a child and studied Joseph Stalin, Karl Marx, Mahatma Gandhi and Adolf Hitler carefully,[7] noting each of their strengths and weaknesses.[7] After Jones' parents separated, he moved with his mother to Richmond, Indiana.[8] He graduated from Richmond High School early and with honors in December 1948.[9]

Jones married nurse Marceline Baldwin in 1949, and moved to Bloomington, Indiana.[10] He attended Indiana University at Bloomington, where a speech by Eleanor Roosevelt about the plight of African Americans impressed him.[10] Jones' sympathetic statements about communism offended Marceline's grandmother.[10] In 1951, Jones moved to Indianapolis, where he attended night school at Butler University, earning a degree in secondary education in 1961.[11]

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 10, 2011 2:26 AM | Report abuse

Jared believed in Anti Government and a new currency. And a group he believed in may have T Party associations. There is nothing more to say. Poor Fox News people desperately trying to deflect blame. But everybody kbnows who has that anti government ideology. And, once again, is The Pitbull still hiding. Probably trying to wash those bloody hands.

Posted by: yvonneweston | January 10, 2011 2:26 AM | Report abuse

A left wing nut job , 22-year-old Jared Loughner, obsessed with Karl Marx guns down a Democrat and we the law abiding tax paying conservative freedom and liberty loving gun owning public have to suffer.

What the hell is going on in the USA? Its a nightmare.

Stop punishing the law abiding tax payers for the actions of a handful of people.

Jared Loughner:

- Tinkered with both anarchist ideas and leftwing politics
- Loughner had identified among his favorite books "The Communist Manifesto" by Karl Marx, Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" and the fiction classic "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest" - hardly the reading list of a conservative.
- Another Jared Loughner video shows a masked man burning the American flag
- Loughner suggests that he was rejected from entering the U.S. Army to which he applied because he was offered a "mini Bible" during the recruitment process, but that he declined to "write a belief on my Army application and the recruiter wrote on the application: None."
- While it is now known that Loughner worked for Gifford's election campaign in 2007, that Gifford subscribed to Loughner's website since Oct. 25, 2010, suggests the two may have been in contact more recently.
- Oddly, the only other YouTube channel Giffords subscribed to was that of former Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., who lost his seat in November to Republican challenger Vicky Hartzler.
- Killed a Republican appointed federal judge


Read more: Did Giffords subscribe to assassin's YouTube? http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=249381#ixzz1Ac8J1rzV


A Godless America hating flag burning lover of the Communist Manifesto shooting a fellow-traveler (democrat) will lead to more illegal (Violates the Second Amendment) gun control?

We already have a nightmare oligarchical collectivist police state.


Posted by: mickrussom

Chaspari1 - Is this how it starts? You feel your better than everyone else... then you snap and start killing people?

Next time you feel like shooting someone, i suggest you shoot yourself.

Posted by: ByteRider
______
1. It seems Byteriders comments conflict with mickrussoms assertions of hwat a peace loving conservative are

2.This also coming from two idiots who don't know their right from their left...
Jim Jones... another supposed lefty :/ Apparently Those books were high on his list of selective reading as well ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones#Early_life

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 10, 2011 2:24 AM | Report abuse

LUPUR - Excuse my typos... very tired, it is late where I am at.

Posted by: ByteRider | January 10, 2011 2:24 AM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin has Blood on her hands BIG TIME. Did she come out of hiding yet.

Posted by: yvonneweston | January 10, 2011 2:23 AM | Report abuse

mickrussom: part of the problem
yvonneweston: part of the problem

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 2:22 AM | Report abuse

LUPUR - Sorry, the discussion on Jared big left or right has already been resolved-- by his friends and himself [the reading material]. There are several stories already posted about this.

As far as I am concerned the jury has come back and given a verdict... he's a liberal left wing nut job (ie, a democrat).

Posted by: ByteRider | January 10, 2011 2:21 AM | Report abuse

I see Fox News got their "lemmings" together with all the "right" talking points. Jared's recent views included a new "currency" and He was "anti Government".
And the FBI is investigating a group Jared may have been affiliated with that has Tea Party associations. And...right wing Hatriots like Sarah Palin and her "crosshairs" list that clearly had Gifford as a target should be held accountable for feeding Right Wing hate. Palin has Blood on her hands.

Posted by: yvonneweston | January 10, 2011 2:18 AM | Report abuse

ByteRider
This guy rants about government takeovers, Nazism, targets a Democrat and you want to say this guys was
"unambiguously a left wing nut?"
Do you right wingers feel no shame at all?
Or has historical revisionism just evolved into reflex for you people now? Not that I expectyou believe to in evolution.

Posted by: Iupur | January 10, 2011 2:15 AM | Report abuse

A left wing nut job , 22-year-old Jared Loughner, obsessed with Karl Marx guns down a Democrat and we the law abiding tax paying conservative freedom and liberty loving gun owning public have to suffer.

What the hell is going on in the USA? Its a nightmare.

Stop punishing the law abiding tax payers for the actions of a handful of people.

Jared Loughner:

- Tinkered with both anarchist ideas and leftwing politics
- Loughner had identified among his favorite books "The Communist Manifesto" by Karl Marx, Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" and the fiction classic "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest" - hardly the reading list of a conservative.
- Another Jared Loughner video shows a masked man burning the American flag
- Loughner suggests that he was rejected from entering the U.S. Army to which he applied because he was offered a "mini Bible" during the recruitment process, but that he declined to "write a belief on my Army application and the recruiter wrote on the application: None."
- While it is now known that Loughner worked for Gifford's election campaign in 2007, that Gifford subscribed to Loughner's website since Oct. 25, 2010, suggests the two may have been in contact more recently.
- Oddly, the only other YouTube channel Giffords subscribed to was that of former Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., who lost his seat in November to Republican challenger Vicky Hartzler.
- Killed a Republican appointed federal judge

Read more: Did Giffords subscribe to assassin's YouTube? http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=249381#ixzz1Ac8J1rzV


A Godless America hating flag burning lover of the Communist Manifesto shooting a fellow-traveler (democrat) will lead to more illegal (Violates the Second Amendment) gun control?

We already have a nightmare oligarchical collectivist police state.

Posted by: mickrussom | January 10, 2011 2:15 AM | Report abuse

Chaspari1 - Is this how it starts? You feel your better than everyone else... then you snap and start killing people?

Next time you feel like shooting someone, i suggest you shoot yourself.

Posted by: ByteRider | January 10, 2011 2:12 AM | Report abuse

Chaspari1 and other liberals here are threatening the lives of "Conservative families".

Like I said-- Liberals are vile, disgusting human beings. I use the term "human" loosely here. Why don't you liberals go to dailykos or moveon and leave the sane people alone? At least at those websites you can share your psychosis with like minded mental freaks.

Posted by: ByteRider
----

LOL. If you think I'm threatening anyone, perhaps you ought to report me to the authorities. You know - the ones who will hopefully stop you after you snap.

Are you and the dull twig having a nice slumber party? Milk and cookies? Shoo.

Get a life. Own it.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 2:08 AM | Report abuse

Chaspari1 -- you liberals are dangerous people... you are responsible for the deaths of every respected public figure... not a single... and I repeat... A SINGLE... con/rep/tea partier/right winger has EVER killed a public figure.

ONLY DEMOCRATS...

Why? Because the further left you go, the further into insanity you become... Jared was a left wing [already proven, no longer a part of argument] fanatic who did what left wing freakozoids do... kill.

So, I call all of you left wing baby killers just that... KILLERS... BABY KILLERS.. your ilk killed a 9 yo child at Safeway... and that's nothing compared to the babies you kill daily you murderous moron.

Posted by: ByteRider | January 10, 2011 2:06 AM | Report abuse

SharpShtik
That is just absolute revisionist Garbage, Nazism has had been unambiguously defined as a right wing phenomena uncontroversially for decades until relatively recently with all the Glenn beck tea party verbal diarrhea, or possible a little earlier in the 90's with the republican revolution.

Anyone who was old enough to seriously remember Nazism (as a mature adult), defined it umambiguously as a right wing phenomena, and you neo-right wingers are doing nothing but trying to shift blame with nothing but convoluted BS after everyone who lived through the experience is dead.
That is Revisionism by definition As the saying goes: Saint and Martyrs rule from the tomb

It's so easy for you delusional right wingers to talk about Nazism, or pretend you adhere to the constitution or worship Jesus because few or none of them, Jesus, the founding fathers, the political figures and generals of WW2, are alive to contradict you and you can talk all the garbage you want under the guise of historical reverence instead of making actually logical arguments to support good policy, by deluding yourselves that they are whoever the heck you you want them to ben you essentially give yourselves to do anything you want with the added pretention of respecting history, but your garbage is contrary to any objective reading of historical record, and thus is the ultimate DISREPECT to history and the people who lived and suffered through those events.

And if you think I am talking Sh*t I challenge you to read any objective history, i.e. one that is properly peer reviewed by career historians on these topics instead of the revisionist faecal matter spewing out of the mouths of fox and co.

I bet in 20 years time when the Vietnam Vets start dying off, you manipulative Bas**rds and people like you will start lying about Nixon and calling him a hero, or at least distorting it's justifications

Posted by: Iupur | January 10, 2011 2:05 AM | Report abuse

ETMETM and pijacobsen, it’s all in how the far-left defines far-right and far-left. The political center, far-right and far-left are ambiguous without definition. Far left commentators have misdefined these terms to their liking in many a book and article. Socialists and communists define far-right as nationalism and, must under that logic define far-left as open borders. I wonder how long Democrats are open borders after they get enough undocumented Democrats (illegal invaders and lawfully imported third world socialists and communists) converted to citizen-voters to dilute enough American votes to guarantee a Chavez-type revolution. Anyway, by defining far-right as a belief that a country should defend its borders against invasion, which Art. 4 Sec. 4 of the US Constitution requires when it says “[t]he United States shall . . . protect each [state] against invasion,” socialists and communists d/b/a Democrats co-locate one of their own murderous socialist nutcases, Hitler, with conservatives. This is the same type of illogical self-serving reasoning Jared Loughner and other left-wing nutcases use to kill people.

Posted by: SharpShtik
---------
Hm. Maybe you're not 12 years old; those are cogent - if off-base - thoughts.

Conflating the issues of border security and illegal immigration/immigration reform with a comparison to criticism of right-wing use of uber-nationalism and xenophobia to rile up followers is just silly.

Oops - I think that's twice I've called you silly this evening.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 2:01 AM | Report abuse

Chaspari1 and other liberals here are threatening the lives of "Conservative families".

Like I said-- Liberals are vile, disgusting human beings. I use the term "human" loosely here. Why don't you liberals go to dailykos or moveon and leave the sane people alone? At least at those websites you can share your psychosis with like minded mental freaks.

Posted by: ByteRider | January 10, 2011 2:01 AM | Report abuse

Who will the democrats kill next?

Posted by: ByteRider
----
Seriously? I don't iknow if the agent will be a Dem or Rep, but I fear it may be you, when security takes you out once your final twig snaps and you decide it's time to act on your fear and anger. Only good outcome of this tragedy is that nutjobs will hopefully be spotted more quickly and taken out before they can accomplish their nefarious and lethal goals.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 2:00 AM | Report abuse

B2O2:

Your veiled threat, to shoot the families of conservative's families, should be taken seriously by the FBI..

-----------------------------------

Let's step back for a moment and talk about schizophrenia, which this shooter apparently suffered from, and the health care bill that Rep. Giffords voted for and the Democratic congress passed.

Obama and Pelosi just extended health care coverage to 30 million new people. If those people are similar to the rest of the population genetically, and there's no real reason to assume otherwise, roughly 150,000 (schizophrenia has a lifetime prevalence of roughly 0.5%) of them are currently walking around without medication of any sort like this young man. Actually the number is most likely much higher among the uninsured for obvious reasons (for starters, many have been rejected for health insurance for this prior condition).

So thanks to Obama and Pelosi doing something Republicans fought tooth and nail against, 150,000 people like this young man will at least have the chance to get treatment. Possibly keeping them from shooting your family at a Safeway one day. Conservatives, please say thank you to the nice president and former Speaker now. On behalf of your family, and the newly-medicated strangers you will never meet in anger, thank goodness.

Posted by: B2

Posted by: cadgbd | January 10, 2011 1:48 AM
_______________
cadgbd... you are seriously mentally retarded. Get help. Call charter. If you dont' call Charter... Please, call someone.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 10, 2011 1:55 AM | Report abuse

B2O2:

Your veiled threat, to shoot the families of conservative's families, should be taken seriously by the FBI..

-----------------------------------

Let's step back for a moment and talk about schizophrenia, which this shooter apparently suffered from, and the health care bill that Rep. Giffords voted for and the Democratic congress passed.

Obama and Pelosi just extended health care coverage to 30 million new people. If those people are similar to the rest of the population genetically, and there's no real reason to assume otherwise, roughly 150,000 (schizophrenia has a lifetime prevalence of roughly 0.5%) of them are currently walking around without medication of any sort like this young man. Actually the number is most likely much higher among the uninsured for obvious reasons (for starters, many have been rejected for health insurance for this prior condition).

So thanks to Obama and Pelosi doing something Republicans fought tooth and nail against, 150,000 people like this young man will at least have the chance to get treatment. Possibly keeping them from shooting your family at a Safeway one day. Conservatives, please say thank you to the nice president and former Speaker now. On behalf of your family, and the newly-medicated strangers you will never meet in anger, thank goodness.

Posted by: B2

Posted by: cadgbd | January 10, 2011 1:48 AM
_______________
cadgbd... you are seriously mentally retarded. Get help. Clal charter. If you dont' call Charter... Please, call someone.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 10, 2011 1:55 AM | Report abuse

Well the evidence has piled up-- this guy is looking like your average nut job liberal... with no conservative, tea party or republican connections.

Who will the democrats kill next?

Posted by: ByteRider | January 10, 2011 1:55 AM | Report abuse

B2O2:

Your veiled threat, to shoot the families of conservative's families, should be taken seriously by the FBI..

You sound like you need death care stat! Where do you want the Thorazine shot?

The nationalization of health care was foisted upon an unwilling country in a sneaky and downright irresponsible way (nobody even read the dang thing!).

Nationalized health care is a miserable failure in other countries.

The shooter would have waited in que for s long time and your socialistic death-care would not want to pay for the drugs. In any event, your precious death-care will not stop the world from turning, patients taking psychotropic drugs will still flip-out and go berserk.

The better alternative would be to preserve what has been called the best health care system in the world by:

1) Addressing the illegal immigration issue. Hospitals are required to provide free health care and many go broke. This also causes enormous increases in health care costs and insurance and ultimately taxes and costs of living.

2) Return manufacturing and jobs to America. Americans with jobs can afford to pay health insurance or get from their employer.

3) Repeal NAFTA and other free trade agreements that circumvent American workers. in favor of workers in countries with poor human rights, and has caused a unemployment. Employed Americans working for prosperous companies will have access health insurance.

4)The free trade agreement repeal should also examine the damage done to the economies of countries south of the border. It is not the illegal immigrant's fault. They have been displaced on a massive scale and invited (wink-wink) to cross the border where the American government welcomes them, and destroys the middle class.


-----------------------------------

Let's step back for a moment and talk about schizophrenia, which this shooter apparently suffered from, and the health care bill that Rep. Giffords voted for and the Democratic congress passed.

Obama and Pelosi just extended health care coverage to 30 million new people. If those people are similar to the rest of the population genetically, and there's no real reason to assume otherwise, roughly 150,000 (schizophrenia has a lifetime prevalence of roughly 0.5%) of them are currently walking around without medication of any sort like this young man. Actually the number is most likely much higher among the uninsured for obvious reasons (for starters, many have been rejected for health insurance for this prior condition).

So thanks to Obama and Pelosi doing something Republicans fought tooth and nail against, 150,000 people like this young man will at least have the chance to get treatment. Possibly keeping them from shooting your family at a Safeway one day. Conservatives, please say thank you to the nice president and former Speaker now. On behalf of your family, and the newly-medicated strangers you will never meet in anger, thank goodness.

Posted by: B2

Posted by: cadgbd | January 10, 2011 1:48 AM | Report abuse

*Sigh* Dealing with repetative ignorance is becoming tedious...

here we go again....

Posted by: techsavvy777
FACT: The shooter is a left wing nutcase
____________
No, that's not a fact, it's a claim

....he like burning US flags as do other leftists,
_____________
Reality, he liked watching the US flag being burned. The video posted wasn't of him, but one he favorited through Youtube. Even an American Leftist is still an "AMERICAN" leftist, and no American likes watching the flag burn. What he liked was the symbolism. KKK nuts like watchign crosses burn, but many of them go to church. Your support is super weak.

his favorite books are the communist manifesto and an Eastern religious book, favorites of lefties.
_________
Actually, that's one of his many favorites that also included Mein Kampf and Peter Pan, two favorites of Righties.

He shows a hatred to Christianity and the Bible, like many leftists.
_________
No, what he showed was a severe and irrational mistrust of authority and any action taken or decreed by an authority. His god rant was against being handed a bible at a military institution in a country whose constitution states no law shall be made respecting the establishment of religion and implies a seperation of church and state, and then having his belief section marked down as none, as if just because he doesn't like being handed a bible and marks no belief on a form he has none. Your support once again is very weak. Speculative in fact.

And he was into occult Conscious Dreaming like many leftists.
_________
Funny how right wingers dont' associate conscious dreaming with prayer. Funny as well how many right wingers have seen the movie DUNE and yet dont' make the conneciton to the line from that movie that stated the sleeper must awaken. He suffered delusions of grandure as if he were the sole person wlakign around awake... much like preachers do.

Christians and conservatives on the right reject or should reject all of these.
___________
And yet they exemplify them so well.

Your arguement fails.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 10, 2011 1:46 AM | Report abuse

communique101: Your comment shows an arrogant lack of knowledge about the National Socialist German Worker’s Party. Like original socialism, it’s neo-socialism (Third Way brand of national socialism) falls between free enterprise and communism. Nationalism and racism do not shift the NAZI political needle from statist socialism on the far-left to any location right of center, let alone the far-right. Just as an analysis of supreme court cases indicates whether they were authored by a leftist, rightist or moderate court, so too does an analysis of books and articles written about the NAZI party and Hitler indicate whether they were authored by a leftist, rightist or moderate. You find deceitful leftist authors credible and I and others who rely on facts and logic do not.

Posted by: SharpShtik | January 10, 2011 1:36 AM | Report abuse

It's easy to sit on the sidelines and second guess why a normal person would not contact the police when they suspect someone of being seriously violent. Here are some reasons you may not have thought about.
http://www.survivalpsych.com/content/community-response-violent-mental-illness-part-1

Posted by: SumYokel | January 10, 2011 1:30 AM | Report abuse

It's easy to sit on the sidelines and second guess why a normal person would not contact the police when they suspect someone of being seriously violent. Here are some reasons you may not have thought about.
http://www.survivalpsych.com/content/community-response-violent-mental-illness-part-1

Posted by: SumYokel | January 10, 2011 1:29 AM | Report abuse

We all need to just ignore Jared Loughner's left wing Democratic background, along with President Obama's characterization of Republicans as evil, or his assertion that Democrats must "punish their enemies", or that they should "bring a gun to a knife fight". All of this has absolutely nothing to do with gay Jared's decision to attack a conservative Democrat, who refused to vote for Nancy Pelosi, with a handgun. Absolutely nothing.


Posted by: pijacobsen
__________
:/
Weak...
Obvious retort...

We all need to just ignore Jared Loughner's conservative whackjob actions, along with conservative talking heads characterization of Obama as evil, or their assertions that republicans "shouldnt' retreat, but reload and regroup", or that they should "bring a gun to the next tea party rally".

All of this has absolutely nothing to do with Jared's decision to attack a conservative Democrat, who refused to vote against the healthcare bill and refused to let hyperbolic rhetoric of people she may disagree with by the tea party assuage her decision regarding DADT, or the vitriolic rhetoric in general from the right side of the isle, nevermind the left, with a handgun. Absolutely nothing.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 10, 2011 1:29 AM | Report abuse

ETMETM and pijacobsen, it’s all in how the far-left defines far-right and far-left. The political center, far-right and far-left are ambiguous without definition. Far left commentators have misdefined these terms to their liking in many a book and article. Socialists and communists define far-right as nationalism and, must under that logic define far-left as open borders. I wonder how long Democrats are open borders after they get enough undocumented Democrats (illegal invaders and lawfully imported third world socialists and communists) converted to citizen-voters to dilute enough American votes to guarantee a Chavez-type revolution. Anyway, by defining far-right as a belief that a country should defend its borders against invasion, which Art. 4 Sec. 4 of the US Constitution requires when it says “[t]he United States shall . . . protect each [state] against invasion,” socialists and communists d/b/a Democrats co-locate one of their own murderous socialist nutcases, Hitler, with conservatives. This is the same type of illogical self-serving reasoning Jared Loughner and other left-wing nutcases use to kill people.

Posted by: SharpShtik
---------
Hm. Maybe you're not 12 years old; those are cogent - if off-base - thoughts.

Conflating the issues of border security and illegal immigration/immigration reform with a comparison to criticism of right-wing use of uber-nationalism and xenophobia to rile up followers is just silly.

Oops - I think that's twice I've called you silly this evening.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 1:27 AM | Report abuse

"SharpShtik--
The history of fascism is very important and interesting--as is the history of socialist and communist movements. But, I am afraid your comments show a lack of information and understanding of the two."

Sounds interestingly like Loughner's YouTube video in which he said:

"The majority of citizens in the United States of America have never read the United States of America's Constitution.

You don't have to accept the federalist laws.

Nonetheless, read the United States of America's Constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws.

You're literate, listener?"

Is this by accident? I hope so.

Posted by: RobNCarolina | January 10, 2011 1:27 AM | Report abuse

techsavvy777: part of the problem

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 1:20 AM | Report abuse

ETMETM and pijacobsen, it’s all in how the far-left defines far-right and far-left. The political center, far-right and far-left are ambiguous without definition. Far left commentators have misdefined these terms to their liking in many a book and article. Socialists and communists define far-right as nationalism and, must under that logic define far-left as open borders. I wonder how long Democrats are open borders after they get enough undocumented Democrats (illegal invaders and lawfully imported third world socialists and communists) converted to citizen-voters to dilute enough American votes to guarantee a Chavez-type revolution. Anyway, by defining far-right as a belief that a country should defend its borders against invasion, which Art. 4 Sec. 4 of the US Constitution requires when it says “[t]he United States shall . . . protect each [state] against invasion,” socialists and communists d/b/a Democrats co-locate one of their own murderous socialist nutcases, Hitler, with conservatives. This is the same type of illogical self-serving reasoning Jared Loughner and other left-wing nutcases use to kill people.

Posted by: SharpShtik | January 10, 2011 1:14 AM | Report abuse

Prayers and condolences to the people involved. FACT: The shooter is a left wing nutcase....he like burning US flags as do other leftists, his favorite books are the communist manifesto and an Eastern religious book, favorites of lefties. He shows a hatred to Christianity and the Bible, like many leftists. And he was into occult Conscious Dreaming like many leftists. Christians and conservatives on the right reject or should reject all of these.

Posted by: techsavvy777 | January 10, 2011 1:14 AM | Report abuse

SharpShtik--

You are mistaken. It's confusing, but the NAZIs were not socialists, as you are using the term---they have very different ideas than communists---see the contribution from AnneKerns in this discussion. Interesting how political movements can appropriate language, huh? Since you have access to the Internet, you might want to go to reputable historical sources to read more about it. The history of fascism is very important and interesting--as is the history of socialist and communist movements. But, I am afraid your comments show a lack of information and understanding of the two.

Posted by: communique101 | January 10, 2011 1:11 AM | Report abuse

We all need to just ignore Jared Loughner's left wing Democratic background, along with President Obama's characterization of Republicans as evil, or his assertion that Democrats must "punish their enemies", or that they should "bring a gun to a knife fight". All of this has absolutely nothing to do with gay Jared's decision to attack a conservative Democrat, who refused to vote for Nancy Pelosi, with a handgun. Absolutely nothing.

Posted by: pijacobsen | January 10, 2011 12:58 AM | Report abuse

Actually covelomax, my whole point to you was that you dont' have a case because your rebuttal was severely flawed in that you assumed you knew anything.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 10, 2011 12:58 AM | Report abuse

Covelomax... no, that was my whole poitn to you. You don't have a case because your rebutal falls flat.

I'm just visiting what? You're as vague as Loughner.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 10, 2011 12:47 AM | Report abuse

The attempt to politicize this by Democrats is disgusting. This guy was crazy and that is all there is to say. When that lunatic, leftist enviro whacko took hostages at the Discovery channel, Democrats whined that it was unfair to point out that he was a liberal environmentalist and, in that case, the guy explicitly said that he was motivated by his liberal political views on AGW.

For all the liberal creeps who hate conservatives so much, where is the evidence that Loughner ever saw Sarah Palin's Facebook page? His dad was a public employee who worked for the City of Tuscon. He is the spawn of one of the Democrat party's main support groups. When will public employee unionists and their fellow Democrats stop terrorizing the American people? Loughner actually killed a federal judge who was appointed by George HW Bush. Must be a liberal.

Posted by: jt007 | January 10, 2011 12:47 AM | Report abuse

Dianeremarx--
Education IS liberal because otherwise it is indoctrination. The results of that practice can be seen in a few countries in the Middle East, for starters. If you can't explore ideas widely and freely, you can't learn and no free society is possible. What gave me away? My esoteric knowledge of the most important events of the previous century? I gather you found my response elitist, along with my assumption that 8th graders are aware of the basics of history of the last century. If 8th graders don't read it today, I apologize. With the state of education, perhaps we can hope that every 12 grader has read these imporant texts. If you sense disgust and outrage, you are correct.

Posted by: communique101 | January 10, 2011 12:46 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: SharpShtik

It's funny how many parallels there are between socialists and national socialists, but they're all just coincidence you know. Both wanted to ban cigarette smoking, for one thing. Only right-wingers believe the state does not have the right to tell people not to smoke. Also, both were in favor of banning private ownership of handguns. And why should people own guns? They're not responsible enough to own them, and it might give them the wrong idea about the benevolent intentions of the government, which is only there to help them, which is why the government must tell people to buy health insurance to benefit other people. Also, both believe in a state-controlled paradise. I'm sure it's all a big coincidence, though.

Posted by: pijacobsen | January 10, 2011 12:46 AM | Report abuse

Sorry AnneKerns, but I don't buy you revisionist written definition of NAZI.

It’s a false assumption to attach Nazism to the right. It shares very little with Right/Conservative ideals but Nazism does share a lot of traits with the Left/Socialism. Both are for centralized government control of the economy and business, anti-religion, actively repress criticism from the opposition, have cult like support for their leaders and hold government rights above individual rights.

From the Nazi Party Platform:

11 That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12 Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13 We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14 We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15 We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16 We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalisation of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small trades people, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

17 We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

Posted by: ETMETM | January 10, 2011 12:44 AM | Report abuse

He was not a Republican, a Democrat, or a member of the Tea Party.
He was a sociopath.

Posted by: shutoz | January 10, 2011 12:41 AM | Report abuse

"Anti-government = Tea party
Gold Standard = Beck, Ron Paul
Reading Ayn Rand = Libertarian

Sounds like a libertarian Tea Partier to me.

Posted by: deinan | January 9, 2011 5:03 PM "

Normally I wouldn't give this one the time of day were it not so satisfying to see the depth of their despair.
__________
Whew buddy Itellyouwhat... not as satisfying as it's goign to be punching a tank sized hole in your uneducated lack of proper deductive reasoning...

Love the anti-gov. "point" deinan, and how does that apply to military and foreign policy given your political wisdom? May I assume (the most frighting word in the English language) deinan that you are in full support of:
The Patriot Act
The WAR in Iraq
The TSA
The WAR in Afganistan
The War on marijuana
and on, and on-----------
Embracing your logic deinan, if you oppose any of these policies, you are "anti-government.
___________
Ooooweee pardner I gotta, I say I gotta, *Slaps covelomax on the back of the thick skull* listen up boy... smart boy's jus gotta learn howta payatenshun... that sure is some OBservant bit o research ya doen there...
yaaaaa... too bad your'e mistaking anti government for anti-dumbasss W that did that as an individual in power and given the benefit of the doubt he's proven he didn't deserve. It wasn't governmetn that did that, it was the individuals in charfge at the time that did. ;) Sorry stinker.

Yes!! in yet another explosion of political brilliance, our man deinan, jumps on GOLD investments as an indicator of one's mindset, or is that mineset? Deinan, on this one I'll cut you some slack. I believe gold, as an investment, is largely in favor in the conservative community.
___________
Well, that's mighty white o ya pardner. :D Especially since whether you cut him some slack on it or not, it's still true, Ooooweee dawgies! And It was far more than just teh whole gold standard thign that Loughner was a hootin ana hollerin about, it was also the paranoid delusions of grammar, brainwashing, and authority tellin him whatado! INCLUDING the innocent handing to him of a bible. Guesswhatkilla? That doesn't make him an atheist, it makes him a "Yer not the boss o me! Conspiracy theory tin foil hat wearin hippy turned ron paul revolutionary libertarian."

I bailed out of my retirement fund in 2004, invested in gold and gold equities, and realized an average 30% annual gain. Had Calpers (California Teacher's Union pension fund) invested in 2005, their entire 3.7 billion dollar assets, it would be worth 5.6 billion dollars today. It's 1.7 billion and falling.
_____
L I B... gudferU! I'spose ye wawnt a cracka!

Deinan dude, the book thing, whew. Please
____________
covelomax, dude, the book thing... applies. Please

Defund NPR, Thank You
_____
NPR's not outagitcha! Thank You

Posted by: Transylvania65000 |.

Thoughtful response, I rest my case. Never forget, you're just visiting.

Posted by: covelomax | January 10, 2011 12:41 AM | Report abuse

It seems that Facebook has deleted Jared Loughner's page, one would guess because Jared apparently, like many extreme liberals, considered Che Guevera (also a terrorist murderer), some kind of hero. I don't think all leftists are terrorist murderers, but an awful lot of leftists do seem to worship them.


Posted by: pijacobsen
___________
Ooooohhhh so now facebook deleted his page... how convenient for you ;) Oh, but I'm sure we can all just accept your assurances without proof. After all, that's what kings and dictators expect all the time.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 10, 2011 12:40 AM | Report abuse

pouran-doukht: part of the problem
pijacobsen: part of the problem
Manhattanman: part of the problem
WWWoDEMOCRATZoORG: part of the problem

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 12:39 AM | Report abuse

My question is not about if the shooter was one thing or another, but why didn't this student send an email to the college administration?

After all the stuff that has happened at the colleges and universities in Virginia and other states, why didn't Pima Community College step in before the fifth week???

Posted by: Trivia | January 10, 2011 12:38 AM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog 3 times in the last 2 weeks and NOT been tracking known nut like Loughner! See all the jokes the DHL needed to waste time on and have lots of laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 12:36 AM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog 3 times in the last 2 weeks and NOT been tracking known nut like Loughner! See all the jokes the DHL needed to waste time on and have lots of laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 12:36 AM | Report abuse

handsome3

You sound like a narcissistic personality crying for help.

Welcome to the club.

Evil exists and the road to hell is paved with the best intentions.

Nobody has yet solved the riddle of man's inhumanity to man.

Please shed your light of knowle3dge upon the lesser beings. Surely you know all the answers and can solve everything just by gazing upon your reflection.

Posted by: cadgbd | January 10, 2011 12:34 AM | Report abuse

George Sanders is another clueless or dishonest left winger in overdrive trying to disown fellow left wing murderous nutcases past and present like the National Socialist German Worker’s Party (NAZI party) and Jared Loughner. National socialism and Worker’s Party meant then what they mean now, national socialism and labor unionization. George obviously has not read, or more likely has and is being dishonest, about the NAZI party’s anti-capitalist, collectivist, statist, economic socialism/social welfare platform. The fact that the NAZI party was also nationalist and racist doesn’t make it any less socialist. The fact that Hitler banned all other political parties including rival left-wing socialist and communist parties and the groups loyal to those parties including particular unions also doesn’t make the NAZI party any less socialist. It means the NAZI party didn’t tolerate any form of dissent, much like present-day socialists and communists d/b/a Democrats. Hitler’s favored Third Way brand of socialism is still in practice today across the globe. Yep George, I do know more than you. Plus, I’m honest.

Posted by: SharpShtik | January 10, 2011 12:30 AM | Report abuse

What does anyone's politics have to do with an apparently young man coming apart at the seams and shooting people he didn't know? Yes, he shot at politicians, but it sounds like he was so far from rational, he may have thought he was mowing the lawn.

Gun ownership? I fully support it (yes, I'm a registered Democrat, no I'm not a member of the NRA). I can no longer run and on bad days cannot walk, so I have handguns where I spend my days. I have no children, and anyone who's coming to visit and bringing children knows to call ahead so I can stow the firearms (yes, plural).

I live in the Commonwealth of Virginia because they don't give me a boatload of grief about owning firearms; if I want to carry a concealed firearm, the permit is easy to get. I rarely go out to strange neighborhoods at night, so I don't really need a concealed-carry permit. We don't need a permit to carry a visible weapon here in Virginia. I feel very safe here. In 15 years in my present home, I've never heard a single gun shot; in six years on Capitol Hill, I lost count. the first month! I didn't trip over bodies or see chalk-lines in the morning, so I don't know what the shooting was about.

For those of you who live in "nice" neighborhoods, NEVER go to a window to see who's shooting at whom or what. You make a nice, back-lit target in your window and you don't know who's out there shooting. Grab the kids and move away from the windows. Depending on where you live, it may or may not be worth the energy to call the police. If there's no visible damage, there's little that can be done unless the neighborhood has its very own "village idiot" who the police know.

If this young man (the shooter, who evidently had serious emotional problems) had family in the area (there's no way of knowing if he did or if he was in touch with them), they may have tried to get him involuntarily committed, but it's difficult. In most states, it takes three doctors to agree and often they can only hold the person for 72 hours. (It was abused in the past.) Doctors are understandably afraid of being sued, and in this case, being injured.

I've had firearms for 40 years and never needed to shoot anyone, but it's been close. A roommate decided that breaking in a window was better than knocking on the door when she lost her keys (at 3:00am). A "boyfriend" I'd told to hit the road had been stalking me (and several other women), so I kept a round chambered and a gun with me when I was home alone. I ran into him at a party and let him (and everyone) know that if he took the next step in stalking, it was time for a body bag. He'd come in my basement, but the door to the main floor was bolted. If he kicked it in, I would not hesitate to shoot him. He was a big man, and I'm a small woman. One woman at the party thanked me for calling him on stalking as she'd been unsure what to do; she didn't feel alone anymore.

If someone is a threat, call the police and ask what, if anything, can be done.

Posted by: saoirse | January 10, 2011 12:30 AM | Report abuse

Thanks AnneKern for the badly needed history lesson, if anyone bothered to read it. To think of the suffering that went into the exploration of these ideas--all totally lost! How is there any hope for our country?

Posted by: communique101 | January 10, 2011 12:28 AM | Report abuse

Chaspari1 is a typical hate-filled left wing radical who has lost touch with reality due to hatred of anything that isn’t on the far left. He-she-it is desperately begging people to believe that historical and present-day fellow crazy leftists such as the National Socialist German Worker’s Party (Hitler’s NAZIs), Jared Loughner, Amy Bishop, Ted Kaczynski, Bill Ayers, hundreds of thousands of other criminal leftists who commit nearly all violent crime in America, etc. are actually right-wing political hacks. Chaspari1 is another example why Americans don’t want the insane to have firearms.

Posted by: SharpShtik
------
OK, I'll jump through your hoops for you this once, as that is probably all the entertainment you can afford on your allowance.

Please point out any hate I have in any of my posts.

I don't think I mentioned any of those people in any of my posts either, but I surely did try to educate those who obviously know nothing nor care to learn anything about the history of Hitler's NAZI party. I enjoy firearms.

Now, do Mommy and Daddy know you're using their computer? Because you're either 12 years old and enjoy trying to get a rise out of people on the internet... or you're a Dem/Lib plant here actually trying to make the argument that the current state of the national dialogue is way too filled with hate and rage all the more valid. Either way, you're a pretty silly character.

Now, shoo.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 10, 2011 12:27 AM | Report abuse

After reading a lot of the comments today, from the look of it, it seems the Dems are going to make a hash of it again. They've done this continuously ever since obama stood in front of his styrofoam Greek columns and announced the new coming of the "messiah of hope and change", and thereafter, proceeded to build the most divisive, dogmatic, confrontational, radical administration in the history of the United States!

The progressives' biggest mistake has always been that they believe "folks" -- their quaint idiom of pleasure -- are indeed stupid sheep. As long as they . . . em, the left, explains things long enough, and loud enough, they, um, the folks, will get it . . . um, their narrative, I mean. (Who's the truly daft?!!!)

From the look of it this will prove no different, if only for the reason than mr. Loughner's profile just won't cooperate with their narrative. No matter how hard they hack away at it, it's a thoroughly square puzzle piece they're trying to jam down the round hole!

Aside from horrifying tragedy of the shooting in Arizona, it's necessary that we do have these discussions again and again. It is an opportunity; opportunity to show the warped daftness of the socialist progressive mindset and behavior.

Posted by: pouran-doukht | January 10, 2011 12:25 AM | Report abuse

After learning that Jared Loughner was a left-wing Democrat who apparently attacked Rep. Giffords because she was too conservative, I am hoping that President Obama apologizes for this statements advising that Democrats "bring a gun to a knife fight". Clearly, at least one of his supporters took him too literally. I'm sure President Obama will apologize tomorrow.

Posted by: pijacobsen | January 10, 2011 12:25 AM | Report abuse

George Sanders is another clueless or dishonest left winger in overdrive trying to disown fellow left wing murderous nutcases past and present like the National Socialist German Worker’s Party (NAZI party) and Jared Loughner. National socialism and Worker’s Party meant then what they mean now, national socialism and labor unionization. George obviously has not read, or more likely has and is being dishonest, about the NAZI party’s anti-capitalist, collectivist, statist, economic socialism/social welfare platform. The fact that the NAZI party was also nationalist and racist doesn’t make it any less socialist. The fact that the NAZI party in power banned all other political parties including rival left-wing socialist and communist parties also doesn’t make the NAZI party any less socialist. Hitler’s favored Third Way brand of socialism is still in practice today across the globe. George, I do know more than you. Plus, I’m honest.

Posted by: SharpShtik | January 10, 2011 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Thanks AnneKern for a badly needed history lesson, if anyone bothered to read it. To think how much suffering went into exploring these ideas to end up in this discussion.

Posted by: communique101 | January 10, 2011 12:22 AM | Report abuse

Let's step back for a moment and talk about schizophrenia, which this shooter apparently suffered from, and the health care bill that Rep. Giffords voted for and the Democratic congress passed.

Obama and Pelosi just extended health care coverage to 30 million new people. If those people are similar to the rest of the population genetically, and there's no real reason to assume otherwise, roughly 150,000 (schizophrenia has a lifetime prevalence of roughly 0.5%) of them are currently walking around without medication of any sort like this young man. Actually the number is most likely much higher among the uninsured for obvious reasons (for starters, many have been rejected for health insurance for this prior condition).

So thanks to Obama and Pelosi doing something Republicans fought tooth and nail against, 150,000 people like this young man will at least have the chance to get treatment. Possibly keeping them from shooting your family at a Safeway one day. Conservatives, please say thank you to the nice president and former Speaker now. On behalf of your family, and the newly-medicated strangers you will never meet in anger, thank goodness.

Posted by: B2O2 | January 10, 2011 12:21 AM | Report abuse

George Sander

The ad hominem attack is illogical and hurts your narrative's credibility and reflects upon your reasoning, beliefs, and habitual patterns of thought.

Did it hit a nerve? Insulting others gives you temporary respite from your inner sense of inadequacy and insecurity. What is it about your childhood that you need to berate others and somehow "prove" that you "right"?

Is Sanders a German name? What is your religion? Are you Catholic? What makes you an expert on Nazism?

The congresswoman shot was Jewish and the shooter read the Communist Manifesto and Nazi propaganda. Any comments you would like to share about this?

If you care to read "The Pink Swastika" (free on the web) there is a description of the totalitarian competition between the global communists and the national socialists. They are both totalitarian regimes.

Today's American Left openly identifies as Socialist, and foists socialist policies, some very similar to Nazism, upon unwilling citizens. Do you now understand the connection?

The Church was attacked because it is the basic fabric of society. The church has also caused genocide, torture, and religious wars.

The terms "left" and "right" change over time and space (different countries). Unfortunately the present American Left has been cooped by some form of Socialism or Communism.

The Right, or Republican,s to use the vernacular, are another can of worms.

The Constitution is designed to protect the citizens from the political class. That is why the rage against the Tea Party.

This is not meant to offend your religion. It is to point out which American party is progressing in a similar vein as Nazism.

Just to clarify the deceit of the "Progressive Left" and point out how easily people (all of us) can be tricked and deceived. Let us not bicker. United we stand.

you wrote:

"Dear cadgbd,

A basic fallacy in logic is called the "fallacy of weak analogy". Just because two entities are similar in some or many respects does not make them equivalient. Islam is akin to Catholicism in some respects, but it is different in many others. Grow up and learn to employ logic like a mature person.

Nazis are not leftist. If Nazis had been leftist, they would not have destroyed the labor unions, demolished the Communist and Socialist party, put prominent leftists in prison and concentration camps, and eliminated leftist opposition during their entire period of rule. The Nazis did employ tactics borrowed from the left, such as soup kitchens and aid for the poor, but the Catholic church has been running similar programs for generations with any sane, honest person claiming that the Catholic church is leftist."

Posted by: cadgbd | January 10, 2011 12:19 AM | Report abuse

After reading all the utterly ignorant rantings that make up most of the comments here, all I can conclude is that you are all mentally ill. At least as mentally ill as the shooter.

one half says obama is hitler, hitler was a lefty, liberals are lefty, liberal are therefore obama nazis. It would be a disgrace to idiots to call you people idiots. You are obviously mentally ill idiots.

The other half bothers to engage them in discussion. My fellow sane people...do yourself a favor and leave the comment boards to the loonies. You will never change anyone's mind. And no one wants to read through 3,454 comments to find your 3 lines of very reasonable remarks about how our society should pay for seriously mentally ill people to receive mental health care.

Posted by: handsome3 | January 10, 2011 12:18 AM | Report abuse

After reading all the utterly ignorant rantings that make up most of the comments here, all I can conclude is that you are all mentally ill. At least as mentally ill as the shooter.

one half says obama is hitler, hitler was a lefty, liberals are lefty, liberal are therefore obama nazis. It would be a disgrace to idiots to call you people idiots. You are obviously mentally ill idiots.

The other half bothers to engage them in discussion. My fellow sane people...do yourself a favor and leave the comment boards to the loonies. You will never change anyone's mind. And no one wants to read through 3,454 comments to find your 3 lines of very reasonable remarks about how our society should pay for seriously mentally ill people to receive mental health care.

Posted by: handsome3 | January 10, 2011 12:18 AM | Report abuse

It seems that Facebook has deleted Jared Loughner's page, one would guess because Jared apparently, like many extreme liberals, considered Che Guevera (also a terrorist murderer), some kind of hero. I don't think all leftists are terrorist murderers, but an awful lot of leftists do seem to worship them.

Posted by: pijacobsen | January 10, 2011 12:18 AM | Report abuse

After reading all the utterly ignorant rantings that make up most of the comments here, all I can conclude is that you are all mentally ill. At least as mentally ill as the shooter.

one half says obama is hitler, hitler was a lefty, liberals are lefty, liberal are therefore obama nazis. It would be a disgrace to idiots to call you people idiots. You are obviously mentally ill idiots.

The other half bothers to engage them in discussion. My fellow sane people...do yourself a favor and leave the comment boards to the loonies. You will never change anyone's mind. And no one wants to read through 3,454 comments to find your 3 lines of very reasonable remarks about how our society should pay for seriously mentally ill people to receive mental health care.

Posted by: handsome3 | January 10, 2011 12:16 AM | Report abuse

After reading all the utterly ignorant rantings that make up most of the comments here, all I can conclude is that you are all mentally ill. At least as mentally ill as the shooter.

one half says obama is hitler, hitler was a lefty, liberals are lefty, liberal are therefore obama nazis. It would be a disgrace to idiots to call you people idiots. You are obviously mentally ill idiots.

The other half bothers to engage them in discussion. My fellow sane people...do yourself a favor and leave the comment boards to the loonies. You will never change anyone's mind. And no one wants to read through 3,454 comments to find your 3 lines of very reasonable remarks about how our society should pay for seriously mentally ill people to receive mental health care.

Posted by: handsome3 | January 10, 2011 12:15 AM | Report abuse

Gee the RepubliKLAN partiers look like they're having fits tonight considering they have gotten caught with their pants down.

Loughner's videos on youtube discuss making a new currency and that points to antifederal reserve conservative libertarians.

Yes, I appear liberal and Harshly criticize KLANservaties often for the meanspirited idiots that they appear but I never use any rhetoric of violence towards these idiots.

They have every right to say what they say no matter how violent they get but they should get harshly criticized and shunned.

The conservative movement has never created anything good in America as far as I can see. Even the Republicans Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt appeared as progressive, not conservative.

Conservatives have destroyed this country in the first great depression and the Liberal FDR revived our country and things went down hill after the idiot Reagan took office. Bush II brought us this 2nd conservative Republican great depression and we will just have to get out of it by voting out Republicans and mass boycotting their campaign donors.

To liberals angry about the lack of progressive legislation for the last 30 years. Channel your anger constructively and sign the petition at www.democratz.org to obtain needed progressive legislation and help in spreading the word far and wide. Thank you.

Posted by: WWWoDEMOCRATZoORG | January 10, 2011 12:15 AM | Report abuse

After reading all the utterly ignorant rantings that make up most of the comments here, all I can conclude is that you are all mentally ill. At least as mentally ill as the shooter.

one half says obama is hitler, hitler was a lefty, liberals are lefty, liberal are therefore obama nazis. It would be a disgrace to idiots to call you people idiots. You are obviously mentally ill idiots.

The other half bothers to engage them in discussion. My fellow sane people...do yourself a favor and leave the comment boards to the loonies. You will never change anyone's mind. And no one wants to read through 3,454 comments to find your 3 lines of very reasonable remarks about how our society should pay for seriously mentally ill people to receive mental health care.

Posted by: handsome3 | January 10, 2011 12:15 AM | Report abuse

The big problem here is that we, as citizens, no longer trust each other. We thus don't trust the professionals among us, who if we could trust them, might be able to help solve problems like Loughner.

The thing is that before you psychiatrists, etc. more power, you will want to make sure that there is no political agenda associated with that power. Else you wind up with a system akin to the old Soviet Union.

I could go on, but then I'd be making a political statement about the Right and Left, and while there is a time and place for that, this isn't it.

I wish the surviving victims a speedy full recovery, and I wish the families of those who died solace in their grief.

Posted by: harrygett | January 10, 2011 12:14 AM | Report abuse

Well, I can see by the number of times the words moron, lib, liberal and leftists, left, right, dem, republican, right wing, etc etc have been used derisively that you have all learned a valuable lesson.

Just because someone disagrees with you does not make them stupid or wrong. A lot of comments merely parrot what the writer has been told to say by either MSNBC or the Koch brothers or Fox News. I sure the shooter here had the same self-righteous attitude that many comments here exhibit.

The arrogance of all of you calling your fellow Americans names in the wake of this tradgedy turns my stomach.

Posted by: crabbyoldguy | January 10, 2011 12:09 AM | Report abuse

"His Facebook page has pictures of Che Guevara, Mao Tse Tung, Fidel Castro, Adolph Hitler, and Barack Obama. I'd say the guy swings to the Left.

But you know, I'm not going to say that. He didn't do this because of politics.

He did this because he is schizophrenic. Note his obsession with mind control and the details of how the coins and bills for his "new currency" are going to look. He was a nut and not a player on either side of the debate.

Posted by: Shaniqa
____________
That's fascinating, cause noones published a facebook on the guy yet... maybe you cna provide a link?

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 10, 2011 12:08 AM | Report abuse

Someone who was onsite Saturday, tweeted: "According to people I spoke to there in the parking lot he helled "damn democrats" then opened fire."

("yelled")

http://twitter.com/#!/R_e_v_a_n_c_h_e

Posted by: AnneKerns | January 10, 2011 12:06 AM | Report abuse

I would like to know why the Department of Homeland Security as log on to my Blog 3 times in the last 2 weeks and NOT tracking known nuts like Loughner, what a waste of time! See the jokes the DHS needed to track and have some quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 12:06 AM | Report abuse

I would like to know why the Department of Homeland Security as log on to my Blog 3 times in the last 2 weeks and NOT tracking known nuts like Loughner, what a waste of time! See the jokes the DHS needed to track and have some quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 12:06 AM | Report abuse

I would like to know why the Department of Homeland Security as log on to my Blog 3 times in the last 2 weeks and NOT tracking known nuts like Loughner, what a waste of time! See the jokes the DHS needed to track and have some quick laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 10, 2011 12:06 AM | Report abuse

"Anti-government = Tea party
Gold Standard = Beck, Ron Paul
Reading Ayn Rand = Libertarian

Sounds like a libertarian Tea Partier to me.

Posted by: deinan | January 9, 2011 5:03 PM "

Normally I wouldn't give this one the time of day were it not so satisfying to see the depth of their despair.
__________
Whew buddy Itellyouwhat... not as satisfying as it's goign to be punching a tank sized hole in your uneducated lack of proper deductive reasoning...

Love the anti-gov. "point" deinan, and how does that apply to military and foreign policy given your political wisdom? May I assume (the most frighting word in the English language) deinan that you are in full support of:
The Patriot Act
The WAR in Iraq
The TSA
The WAR in Afganistan
The War on marijuana
and on, and on-----------
Embracing your logic deinan, if you oppose any of these policies, you are "anti-government.
___________
Ooooweee pardner I gotta, I say I gotta, *Slaps covelomax on the back of the thick skull* listen up boy... smart boy's jus gotta learn howta payatenshun... that sure is some OBservant bit o research ya doen there...
yaaaaa... too bad your'e mistaking anti government for anti-dumbasss W that did that as an individual in power and given the benefit of the doubt he's proven he didn't deserve. It wasn't governmetn that did that, it was the individuals in charfge at the time that did. ;) Sorry stinker.

Yes!! in yet another explosion of political brilliance, our man deinan, jumps on GOLD investments as an indicator of one's mindset, or is that mineset? Deinan, on this one I'll cut you some slack. I believe gold, as an investment, is largely in favor in the conservative community.
___________
Well, that's mighty white o ya pardner. :D Especially since whether you cut him some slack on it or not, it's still true, Ooooweee dawgies! And It was far more than just teh whole gold standard thign that Loughner was a hootin ana hollerin about, it was also the paranoid delusions of grammar, brainwashing, and authority tellin him whatado! INCLUDING the innocent handing to him of a bible. Guesswhatkilla? That doesn't make him an atheist, it makes him a "Yer not the boss o me! Conspiracy theory tin foil hat wearin hippy turned ron paul revolutionary libertarian."

I bailed out of my retirement fund in 2004, invested in gold and gold equities, and realized an average 30% annual gain. Had Calpers (California Teacher's Union pension fund) invested in 2005, their entire 3.7 billion dollar assets, it would be worth 5.6 billion dollars today. It's 1.7 billion and falling.
_____
L I B... gudferU! I'spose ye wawnt a cracka!

Deinan dude, the book thing, whew. Please
____________
covelomax, dude, the book thing... applies. Please

Defund NPR, Thank You
_____
NPR's not outagitcha! Thank You

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 10, 2011 12:04 AM | Report abuse

His Facebook page has pictures of Che Guevara, Mao Tse Tung, Fidel Castro, Adolph Hitler, and Barack Obama. I'd say the guy swings to the Left.

But you know, I'm not going to say that. He didn't do this because of politics.

He did this because he is schizophrenic. Note his obsession with mind control and the details of how the coins and bills for his "new currency" are going to look. He was a nut and not a player on either side of the debate.

Posted by: Shaniqa | January 10, 2011 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Ya just never know now days whats gonna make someone go "Postal" on ya!

www.anon-tools.it.tc

Posted by: clermontpc | January 9, 2011 11:59 PM | Report abuse

The shooter is a sick, weak individual to commit such a horrific crime.
His friend was interviewed and described him as "very liberal", which explains why
the shooter was so upset this week when
Giffords voted Against Nancy Pelosi.
It explains the obsession with Karl Marx and European politics.
The shooter was also anti-semitic.
There's a lot of hate going around, between
our own president referring to his opponents, other Americans - as "The Enemy", and democratic campaign ads with people shooting Rifles at cap & trade bill.
The mayor of Tucson sounded extremely hateful, calling people from Arizona "bigots".. which was very unprofessional and perpetuates hate.
That mayor was disturbing, and he's supposed to be a leader, too.

Posted by: ohioan | January 9, 2011 11:59 PM | Report abuse

The shooter is a sick, weak individual to commit such a horrific crime.
His friend was interviewed and described him as "very liberal", which explains why
the shooter was so upset this week when
Giffords voted Against Nancy Pelosi.
It explains the obsession with Karl Marx and European politics.
The shooter was also anti-semitic.
There's a lot of hate going around, between
our own president referring to his opponents, other Americans - as "The Enemy", and democratic campaign ads with people shooting Rifles at cap & trade bill.
The mayor of Tucson sounded extremely hateful, calling people from Arizona "bigots".. which was very unprofessional and perpetuates hate.
That mayor was disturbing, and he's supposed to be a leader, too.

Posted by: ohioan | January 9, 2011 11:58 PM | Report abuse

I just discovered on the news that Jared Loughner was an angry liberal, who targeted Rep. Giffords because she was insufficiently liberal. It's such a shame when Democrats like President Obama say things like "bring a gun to a knife fight", looks like one of his followers took him literally. It's time the Democrats dialed back the hate I think.

Posted by: pijacobsen | January 9, 2011 11:56 PM | Report abuse

the crap about Jared being a Dem is not true.

Posted by: ariuszme | January 9, 2011 11:33 PM

You lying azzed bag of shyt.. he's been shown WORLDWIDE to be a damned ignorant GAY Commie Lib..

Posted by: Manhattanman | January 9, 2011 11:49 P

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No. You're wrong Manhattanman. He was a loony tune anti-government tea partyer who followed dear leader Palin's advice and tried to "reload". He was as angry and erratic as your profanity laced response above.

Jared is on your team. Too late to throw him under the bus. He has effectively doomed Palin and her tea party. Learn to deal with it and please, please, please don't snap and hurt somebody.

Posted by: bcs2k | January 9, 2011 11:55 PM | Report abuse

@Transylvania65000, many believe it's wise to be able to defend against exactly the type of attack that happened. The difficult question is: how many lives could have been saved in these cases if more carried arms vs how many more lunatics might commit similar acts if arms were even more available? I don't think it's the open and shut case you think it is.

Posted by: kzoknight
___________
1. I'm not making the case for stricter gun control
2. I don't think it's as simple a case as you THINK I think it is either ;)

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 11:50 PM | Report abuse

"Anti-government = Tea party
Gold Standard = Beck, Ron Paul
Reading Ayn Rand = Libertarian

Sounds like a libertarian Tea Partier to me.

Posted by: deinan | January 9, 2011 5:03 PM "

Normally I wouldn't give this one the time of day were it not so satisfying to see the depth of their despair. Please keep in mind, as the politics of this tragedy unfold, it was NPR, funded with your tax dollars, that launched the blame Tea Party-Palin nonsense.

Love the anti-gov. "point" deinan, and how does that apply to military and foreign policy given your political wisdom? May I assume (the most frighting word in the English language) deinan that you are in full support of:
The Patriot Act
The WAR in Iraq
The TSA
The WAR in Afganistan
The War on marijuana
and on, and on-----------
Embracing your logic deinan, if you oppose any of these policies, you are "anti-government.

Yes!! in yet another explosion of political brilliance, our man deinan, jumps on GOLD investments as an indicator of one's mindset, or is that mineset? Deinan, on this one I'll cut you some slack. I believe gold, as an investment, is largely in favor in the conservative community. I bailed out of my retirement fund in 2004, invested in gold and gold equities, and realized an average 30% annual gain. Had Calpers (California Teacher's Union pension fund) invested in 2005, their entire 3.7 billion dollar assets, it would be worth 5.6 billion dollars today. It's 1.7 billion and falling.

Deinan dude, the book thing, whew. Please

Defund NPR, Thank You

Posted by: covelomax | January 9, 2011 11:50 PM | Report abuse

the crap about Jared being a Dem is not true.

Posted by: ariuszme | January 9, 2011 11:33 PM

You lying azzed bag of shyt.. he's been shown WORLDWIDE to be a damned ignorant GAY Commie Lib..

Posted by: Manhattanman | January 9, 2011 11:50 PM | Report abuse

the crap about Jared being a Dem is not true.

Posted by: ariuszme | January 9, 2011 11:33 PM

You lying azzed bag of shyt.. he's been shown WORLDWIDE to be a damned ignorant GAY Commie Lib..

Posted by: Manhattanman | January 9, 2011 11:49 PM | Report abuse

So appears a little profiling would have prevented this?

Posted by: ToxicAvenger1 | January 9, 2011 11:48 PM | Report abuse

Responding to:

Democrats commit almost all violent crime according to DOJ and voting statistics so this is no surprise. Yet another crazy leftwing murderer who hated Jews (who ironically vote 75% for Democrats). This Democrat tells us his favorite books are written by fellow crazy leftwing radicals - the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. A classmate called him a leftwing radical pothead, i.e., your average Democrat. Speaking of Mein Kampf, leftists also try to distance themselves from socialist nutcase Hitler by mislabeling the National Socialist German Worker's Party (NAZIs) far right. Hitler implemented the same Third Way brand of socialism that FDR Democrats stuck America with and Bill Clinton praised in the 90's....

Posted by: SharpShtik | January 9, 2011 10:57 PM | Report abuse
_________

SharpShtik,

Unfortunately, you aren't very sharp and you don't know a thing about history. Hitler was never a left-winger, period. You have been reading information put out by half-educated blowhards who know nothing about European politics when Hitler grew up. The left wing parties in Austria, where Hitler grew up, and Germany, where he came to rule, were the Communist party and the Socialist party. Hitler had nothing but hatred for these parties. He may have been influenced by the Catholic Socialists in Vienna, but this was not a left-wing party by any reasonable standard (also, Hitler was not a Christian, so he was never close to this party). It was populist, and it used some left-wing tactics, such as soup kitchens and aid for the poor, but it was anti-Semitic and anti-foreigner, and closely allied to the Catholic church, which was anti-socialist. So you see, the "socialist" label in the early 20-th century in Austrian-German culture doesn't mean what you think now. Maybe you should spend five years learning to read German, so you'll know what you're talking about, instead of spewing toxic nonsense.

The Socialist and Communist parties had prominent Jewish leaders, because those were in general the only parties where Jewish people could rise in the power structure. Hitler had a visceral hatred for both left-wing parties. When he took power, he immediately outlawed labor unions, which were that basis of support for the Socialist party. He immediately arrested Communist and Socialist leaders and put many in concentration camps. He persecuted Communists, Socialists, and labor leaders relentlessly. He viewed both Socialism and Communisim, i.e., left-wingism, as a Jewish invention and wanted to root them out of German society by eliminating Jews. His hatred of Communism was so great that he viewed the battle against the Soviet Union as absolutely necessary for eliminating Communism from Europe. He even believed that America and Europe would be grateful to him for eliminating Communism.

Posted by: GeorgeSanders | January 9, 2011 11:48 PM | Report abuse

Political assassinations were very common in the rise of Communist Russia, Nazi Germany, Communist China and Imperial Japan, plus many others. They were used to suppress the people and make them succumb to oppressive leadership. There are already people in this country that don't want to "let this crisis go to waste" and bring more oppression and control into this, "the land of the free."

Posted by: DL13 | January 9, 2011 11:48 PM | Report abuse

Chaspari1 is a typical hate-filled left wing radical who has lost touch with reality due to hatred of anything that isn’t on the far left. He-she-it is desperately begging people to believe that historical and present-day fellow crazy leftists such as the National Socialist German Worker’s Party (Hitler’s NAZIs), Jared Loughner, Amy Bishop, Ted Kaczynski, Bill Ayers, hundreds of thousands of other criminal leftists who commit nearly all violent crime in America, etc. are actually right-wing political hacks. Chaspari1 is another example why Americans don’t want the insane to have firearms.

Posted by: SharpShtik | January 9, 2011 11:47 PM | Report abuse

The people here calling for gun control are missing an important point: while no one wants a mentally unstable person to have a weapon (of any kind), Mr. Loughner did not have a formal diagnosis (that we know of as of today). Yes, he was seriously disturbed and obviously in retrospect should have been identified, institutionalized and treated, but as of the day he went to a gun store and bought a pistol, it wasn't illegal for him to do so. Under any law.

Answer this question: if you were a sales clerk in a gun shop, and Mr. Loughner came in, how would you know he was crazy? If he has proper ID, fills out the proper paperwork, answers questions without gibbering or drooling, and isn't obviously a nutter in your presence, what justification will you use not to complete the sale?

Ditto the very disturbed young man who did the Virginia Tech shooting. Yes, he was disturbed, but on the day he bought his weapons, he was able to present himself as 'normal'.

And even if a person does have a history of mental illness, unless that person has a criminal record as well, the background check (the National Instant Criminal Background Check System) likely comes back clean. The gun shop sales clerk isn't going to know.

No one, no one, liberal or conservative, wants disturbed people to have firearms. But unless you put a scarlet 'M' on their foreheads, you aren't going to know who they are.

Posted by: stevewhitemd1 | January 9, 2011 11:46 PM | Report abuse

George Soros is the right's latest boogieman who, by the way, brought capitalism to Hungary ;)
They picked him up when they realized the Ayers connection was weak

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 11:45 PM | Report abuse

Our current liberal President talks like this: "If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun"

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

Liberals - please keep your mouths shut. Otherwise hypocrisy spews forth, and you don’t seem to hear yourselves.

Posted by: dfp21
______________
The obvious retort...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Elr5K2Vuo

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 11:42 PM | Report abuse

@Transylvania65000, many believe it's wise to be able to defend against exactly the type of attack that happened. The difficult question is: how many lives could have been saved in these cases if more carried arms vs how many more lunatics might commit similar acts if arms were even more available? I don't think it's the open and shut case you think it is.

Posted by: kzoknight | January 9, 2011 11:41 PM | Report abuse

This is tragic. Several people said something about his symptoms and characteristics, but no one did anything. The time has come when Psychiatric Nurses/and Doctors highly trained to interpet behavior such as his will have to get busy and let family members know how very dangerous these people are. As a Psychiatric RN, I have come across many such "sicko's". They are so sick and so dangerous to themselves and to others around them. Everyone should be taught and educated about what to look for in their behavior. It is not difficult but It is so important.

Our Government has done a sad job in this realm of Medicine.
They have closed down most of the Good Psych hospitals..These patients are walking around the streets talking to themselves all the time. I see them on our city streets. Most people think this is normal. Well it's not.

Posted by: uniqueMe | January 9, 2011 11:41 PM | Report abuse

This is George Bushs fault

Posted by: davidhnaz | January 9, 2011 11:41 PM | Report abuse

ByteRider: quite possibly the next Loughner

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 11:39 PM | Report abuse

from "The Encyclopedia of Political Science" ... I will quote here because it is not available online. CQ Press, publisher, 2010.

FASCISM:
As an ideal type, Fascism is an ultranationalist totalitarianism of the extreme right and an ideology of the twentieth century, the era of mass politics. Fascism has appealed to people who reject modern bourgeois democracy, with its individualism and materialism, but who also oppose revolutionary communism.

The earliest Fascist governments were a reaction to the social upheaval, economic decline, and psychological impact of World War I (1914-1918) and its aftermath in postwar Europe. The despair of Europeans, their suffering and deprivations during this interwar period (1918-1939), together with their fear of communism, fed into a willingness by many people to blame other groups (usually racial) and nations for various economic and social problems, and to follow politicians who voiced their grievances. The rise of Fascism demonstrates how democratic liberties can be abolished and totalitarian ideas and regimes gain acceptance.

Regimes:
The first Fascist government came to power in Italy in 1922, led by Benito Mussolini (1883-1945). Mussolini skillfully combined syndicalism with nationalism. He called for direct action and advocated a national mission to revolutionize society from above, using government, and from below, using a mass movement to create an organized and robust community. To Mussolini, all liberty belongs to the state, and the only individual rights are those that stem from the needs of the state. Under the guidance of its natural leader, or Duce, the nation finds liberation from bourgeois and Marxist values in a culture dominated by elite warriors, heroic men ready to sacrifice their lives and their treasure for the good of the nation.

Adolf Hitler (1889-1945) came to power in Germany in 1933, demanding revision of the entire domestic and international order and promising new, permanent solutions. The prior government, dominated by social democrats and their allies, seemed unable to respond to a series of crises faced by a German people despondent after losing World War I and confronting heavy war reparations, together with massive unemployment, daily violence in the streets, runaway inflation, and a worldwide economic depression. The result was a population with shattered belief systems, willing to submit to any authority that promised to reestablish the old values and greatness of the past. ... (running out of room) ... Hitler's autobiography, Mein Kampf (1925, 1926) presages key themes of his years in power. He combines radical and conservative notions in an often-shifting muddle of ideas. Hitler views Mussolini as an early model but soon surpasses him, emphasizing a more virulent form of racism that is irrational, anti-intellectual, and antimodern on its face...

entry by Donald G. Tannenbaum

Fascism is definitely far right, NAZI acronym notwithstanding

Posted by: AnneKerns | January 9, 2011 11:38 PM | Report abuse

This kid was going to college on a George Soros grant... before getting kicked out of school.

Just another left wing nut...

Reference: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=248829

Posted by: ByteRider | January 9, 2011 11:38 PM | Report abuse

dfp21: part of the problem

ByteRider: part of the problem

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 11:37 PM | Report abuse

Our current liberal President talks like this: "If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun"

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

Liberals - please keep your mouths shut. Otherwise hypocrisy spews forth, and you don’t seem to hear yourselves.

Posted by: dfp21 | January 9, 2011 11:34 PM | Report abuse

The jig is up, Liberal Democrats... the shooter has been identified by MANY, especially those close to him, as a LIBERAL, LEFT WING WACK JOB (I know, a bunch of redundant words)...

Btw, more and more stories are coming out about how this is a left wing nut... Drudge has posted even another story just moments ago.

WHY DO DEMOCRATS HATE AMERICA?!

Reference:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=248829

Posted by: ByteRider | January 9, 2011 11:34 PM | Report abuse

Taxpayer550 wants to know why this woman "jumped to the conclusion" last summer that the kid was going to end up on the news after shooting up some folks with an automatic weapon.

Taxpayer550's argument might have any substance if the woman hadn't been RIGHT.

Christ.

Posted by: privacy3 | January 9, 2011 11:33 PM | Report abuse

Oh gosh right wing uneducated posters give me a daily chuckle. They'll do anything to pin EVERYTHING on dems and liberals. Such an ignorant and uneducated lot.

BTW, I know these type don't like truth and facts, they are all brainwashed after all, but the crap about Jared being a Dem is not true.

Posted by: ariuszme | January 9, 2011 11:33 PM | Report abuse

Every time I try to convince myself that the media jumped the gun, and that even the most conservative tea bagger could not possibly be crazy, hateful, and angry enough at liberals and Democrats to commit such a heinous act, I read the comments here and realize I was WRONG, and there are an awful lot more of you nutjobs out there!

Posted by: CAC2 | January 9, 2011 11:31 PM | Report abuse

I have been listening to the coverage on CNN all day long, and I am struck by one thing -- there is no mention of the need for better gun control. There is talk about the need for better civility when it comes to political discourse, but no one dares mention gun control. If a mentally ill person can legally buy a gun and kill half a dozen people, if that doesn't indicate a need for better laws, what will?

9-year-old Christina Green is the latest victim of the 2nd amendment. How many more people do we want to lose to this absurd remnant from a bygone era? This is the law to repeal. Instead politicians are spending their time and energy on repealing affordable healthcare. This is what is wrong with America.

Posted by: RK12a | January 9, 2011 11:28 PM | Report abuse

Actually, individual right or not, the entire purpose of the 2nd Ammendment was to give the peopel the most effective means fo defense availabel at the time. HAd that been bows and arrows, then that is what the right to bear arms would have stood for... at that time.

The second ammendment is meant for necessary defense and nothing more. Soldiers have them for defense, police officers have them for defense, hunters have them for defense [defense of their bodies agaisnt animal attacks, hunger, and the cold (since we use their skins to make our boots and hats, etc.)], and we the people have them for defense, and any act we commit in the interests of our defense is acceptable and encouraged, including target practice.

What are tea partiers defending against? Do they need guns for that? Did the original Boston Tea PArty event include the use of guns? What was Loughner defending against? Did he need a gun for that? What were the hutaree defending against? Did they need guns for that? Did they need to use guns for that? What were the ORIGINAL founding fathers defending against? What are the differences?

As far as the rhetoric; you get what you pay for, and people like Palin have a lot invested in their vitriol... a lot.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 11:25 PM | Report abuse

Loughner is a freak, but I don't understand where Sorenson gets the "automatic weapon" reference on the first day of class. Was Loughner verbally threatening to bring in an automatic weapon? We've all been in circumstances where people become disruptive, but they don't pose a violent threat. Sorenson seems to jump to the conclusion that Loughner would bring an automatic weapon into class. If he threatened to do it, why weren't the police called? I just have serious questions about the credibility of Sorenson's journal entries.

Posted by: Taxpayer550 | January 9, 2011 11:24 PM | Report abuse

flamingliberal: part of the problem

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 11:23 PM | Report abuse

Jared is a very sick young man. This is not because of politics. He was once a sweet little boy, as were Gacy, Dahmer, Whitman, and the rest. We are surrounded by them every day. Our pride, greed, sarcasm, and neglect do much to shape them. Never ignore the power of humility,generosity, kindness, and genuine affection.

Posted by: clairejjj | January 9, 2011 11:19 PM | Report abuse

Jared is a very sick young man. This is not because of politics. He was once a sweet little boy, as were Gacy, Dahmer, Whitman, and the rest. We are surrounded by them every day. Our pride, greed, sarcasm, and neglect do much to shape them. Never ignore the power of humility,generosity, kindness, and genuine affection.

Posted by: clairejjj | January 9, 2011 11:18 PM | Report abuse

MAWT is apparently Jared Loughner commenting while in FBI custody. MAWT, please spew more hate-filled nonsense to compare to other far left vitriol from Loughner.

Posted by: SharpShtik | January 9, 2011 11:17 PM | Report abuse

Why does this guy's former friend and bandmate describe him as a "left-wing pothead" and "political radical" if he's a tea-partier?

Everything about this clown points to him being a leftie....assuming, of course, that you choose to ignore the fact that he was clearly a schizophrenic having a psychotic break. I, for one, am not that dumb. All you idiots debating about his political leanings need to get a life. He had no politics. He was insane. Got it? Move on.

Posted by: mickeybitsko | January 9, 2011 11:17 PM | Report abuse

mawt: part of the problem

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 11:15 PM | Report abuse

In Australia we had a massacre from a similar nut many years ago. In response, the conservative Howard government banned automatic weapons (why anyone other than a farmer, soldier or cop would need one I don't know). We haven't had one since. Contrast this with America, where the first thing that comes into a students mind when someone is ill is "will he come in with a gun and kill everyone".

What a sick society, you see people dying everyday and the response is to give more guns to people, even in bars. Lunacy.

Posted by: Chops2 | January 9, 2011 11:13 PM | Report abuse

ASterling1,

The problem with your assessment is a. Liberals own guns too and enjoy them reasonabley b. Jared Loughner coudl msot certainly have done damage without guns, but not as much and c. He coudl also have been restrainted withotu guns. The english have bobbies without guns and cameras on their streets doign the same job or better than those with guns, but thanks for playing, here's a nice parting gift for you ;)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/10shooter.html?_r=1&hp

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Yes, wingers, the 2nd Amendment should be interpreted as an individual right to bear arms, whatever arms you want. No, it is not a collective right empowering state militias.

And if ever future historians want to emphasize the place of the nation's total corruption, that place where the people lost their democracy forever, it would be when the NRA took over the US Congress.

And the stupid wingers, and that is what they are, crow about an individual right to bear arms and they have no idea whose ideas they are parroting.

We are the laughingstock of the entire world. Crazies ruled by billions upon billions of dollars pass incredibly stupid laws at every level of government to enable these massacres to continue year after year.

Children pack a piece and murder other children and teachers across the land and across the decades and we the sheeple accept it.

And we the people accept a right wing Republican Nazi government year after year.

Gotta keep those guns, Americans... Don't let reality interfere with what your billion dollar industry tells you is constitutional. And their prostitutes in the US Congress.

Posted by: flamingliberal | January 9, 2011 11:12 PM | Report abuse

I would like to know why the Department of
Homeland Security were on my Blog 3 times in the last 2 weeks and NOT tracking nuts like Loughner! See all the jokes that DHS wasted thie time on and get lots of laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 9, 2011 11:12 PM | Report abuse

cleancut77 wrote: People like this used to be involuntarily committed. I believes liberals changed that sometime ago. It needs to be revisited.
================
deinan wrote: cleancut77 - Actually it was Ronald Reagan.
================
Actually it was a Supreme Court decision during the Reagan Adminstration that freed people from mental instutions if they were involuntarily committed and were not deemed a threat to themselves or others. If you are deemed a threat, you can still be involuntarily committed.

Posted by: chadborman | January 9, 2011 11:10 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 11:09 PM | Report abuse

ASterling1 -KUDOS! THAT is America!

[please read my post just prior to yours]

Posted by: PlanetPrisoner2011 | January 9, 2011 11:08 PM | Report abuse

@ Geepers1: his politics are irrelevant. The atmosphere in which he came to act on them is completely relevant.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 11:06 PM | Report abuse

The only reason I'm commenting on these articles is that I believe it's important to work on identifying and protecting people from people like this shooter before they do their deeds. Obviously his fellow student, the teacher, and everyone else at the school, and certainly his family, had lots of reason to think he might do - exactly what he did. There couldn't be any more clear statements than what Ms. Sorensen wrote. And as far as gun control goes, if I would have been there and had a gun, and hadn't been killed or wounded by him first, I would have used the weapon to stop the harm. If there'd been any other armed individual or law enforcement there, they too would have acted to stop the harm. Really tired of these same old statements from the same old people and sorry "liberals," everyone else is too. This is about preventing crazy attackers. Not stopping people from owning guns. That young man could have done any number of violent, horrible things non-gun related. Violent jihadists strap bombs filled with shrapnel to disabled or deranged people to use them as suicide bombers. Timothy McVeigh and his cohort used a truck filled with fertilizer to destroy half a building and murder infants and toddlers along with office workers and bystanders. The 9-11 hijackers used box cutters to take over the airplane. Your day - is done. It is YOUR FAULT we enforce laws so poorly that they are distorted, abused, and taken advantage of, because there are TOO MANY laws. Meanwhile, the basics are utterly forgotten. Such as - restrain insane people from murdering dozens of others including innocent children!

Posted by: ASterling1 | January 9, 2011 11:03 PM | Report abuse

This horrific act was not done or encouraged by Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Sean Hannity or any American Citizens who choose to exercise their right to "freedom of speech", as guaranteed to us by the Constitution. It was "allegedly" committed by the man that the authorities took into custody. That's it! Let's stop blaming people with whom we disagree with politicaly. Let the legal process take place, and let justice be served. Enough!

Posted by: barrysal | January 9, 2011 11:03 PM | Report abuse

These comments just tell us that HATE is prevalent in the US. Why can't we all see that the dumbing down of America since the industrial age [when Tesla was made out to be a lunatic, when the Rothchilds finally won, when the "Departments" started being part of our government...etc] has made us all become ignorant of our history. This is not right vs left. This guy was a product of what we see on mainstream tv every nite, what we read in the headlines every day, what we are programed to be in all advertisement, ...a lunatic product no less, but still a product. He was there to shoot anyone and everyone, starting from the top down.
Cars kill people, so ban them?...liquor kills people, so ban it?...machinery kills people, so eliminate them?...boats kill people, so ban them?...knives kill people, so destroy them?....are you getting the point? It is not the mechanism that murders....it is person behind it. If a murderer, a pro murderer wanted to kill someone, they could probably do so with nothing more than an ink pen while passing in a crowd. Has anyone read any recent articles on Geoengineering?? Well, look it up. How about aspartame and fluoride. Both are deadly, a slow death. In fact the FDA just last week finally admitted what MOST independent researchers have known for years. OOPS...I am rambling on conspiracy now [notice the word theory was not in that statement].
It is really just too sad that our national gun laws are not closer to those of Minnesota or Alaska, then maybe the lunatics would be left with no choice than to jump off a bridge or building instead of bringing others into their pain ridden minds.
We are just beginning to see what is to come if we do not get WISDOM from KNOWLEDGE of the past.
...by the way, I took the established losses of my 401K and now purchase gold and silver coin monthly...so are you guys calling me a lunatic? ...furthermore, if you are, it doesn't bother me at the least. I don't chew aspartame ridden gum anymore and I brush my teeth with hydrogen peroxide and baking soda. I use soap nuts and vinegar in my laundry. I am a gun owner. I know how to raise a garden and dress a deer. I display a Ron Paul bumper sticker. I was an Eagle Scout. I am a veteran. I believe in GOD. I open doors for those few females today who are actually Ladies. I volunteer for community. I have no clue who is on Dancing with the Stars, and my news comes from the many, many, many sources.
I ask for all on this blog to pray for those wounded and families of those killed. My God wishes I pray also for this madman. We can and shall convict him, let God deliver him.

Posted by: PlanetPrisoner2011 | January 9, 2011 11:03 PM | Report abuse

SharpShtik: part of the problem

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 11:01 PM | Report abuse

To me, with as little information as we have now, Jared was a very disturbed young man who once was a sweet little boy. What happened wasn't about politics, although politics shaped his life. There's someone near you becoming a Jared, Whitman, etc. Don't undersetimate the power we have each day to help or harm. There is no neutral ground.

Posted by: clairejjj | January 9, 2011 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Ignoramous writes "Abraham Lincoln (1865) - killed by John Wilkes Booth, a Democrat
James Garfield (1881) - killed by Charles J. Guiteau, a Democrat
William McKinley (1901) - killed by Leon Czolgosz, Democratic Anarchist
John F. Kennedy (1963) - killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, Communist

Attempts on:

Andrew Jackson by Robert B. Randolph, Democrat Liberal
Franklin D. Roosevelt by Giuseppe Zangara, Democrat Liberal
Harry S. Truman by Pedro Albizu Campos, Nationalist Socialist
Gerald Ford by Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme, a follower of Charles Manson, Socialist
Ronald Reagan by John Hinckley, Jr., Registered Democrat"
-----
Do some research before posting on politics, especially when you don't know anything.. ya jack wagons...
-----
Physician, heal thyself.

You list of assassins and would-be assassins is rife with right-wing conservatives. If you had a lick of education or knowledge on the subject, you'd know that the Democratic Party was the party of conservatives for much of the history of this nation. So, with the exception of Hinkley, you can also label every one of those democrat/assassins as right-wing nutjobs.

The timeline might not work for Zangara, but he was motivated by one of the same thing that the Tea Party, right-wing talking heads and other nutters use to incite their followers: anger over a suffering economy. (I suppose you see modern Dems who are also angry about the economy, but you sure don't see them assassinating anybody because of it.)

So, before you continue with your utterly confused, self-defeating arguments, perhaps you should be the one who educates themselves, what say?

Posted by: Chaspari1
_____________
FINALLY! Someone said what I've been saying all along; it isn't republican or democrat it's conservative ... uh.... um... preservative ;) Thinking!

Attempting to preserve what one perceives as being under attack from a ghost or boogie man. See also McCarthyism, Jim Jones, Tea Partiers [Takign back a nation never lost to them... obviously].

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Since the National Right to Annihilate controls the Guns Owned Party of Hate and gun control will never occur, everyone needs to become armed to defend themselves against all these Psychotic Cowards who worship Hate, Bigotry and Guns. They pray every Sunday for more violence and murders.

Bizarre messages from the Coward with Guns Murderer how? These are the same messages from Sarah Idiot Bigot, Glenn Hateful Hitler and Rush Obese Moron Con.

These Born Again Hate-Filled Idiot Bigots and Fairy Tale Based Frauds who incite violence and murder should be held accountable. This is the norm for the RetardiCons.

Mission Accomplished!!! Another Scumbag Coward with a Gun. A Scumbag Coward who shoots a woman point blank through the brain. The same should be done to this Scumbag Coward.

The National Right to Annihilate (NRA) and the Guns Owned Party (GOP) are Domestic Terrorist Organizations and they should be RICOed and shutdown but with the Guns Owned Party's support nothing will happen but the continued flooding of the streets with guns. Only Criminals and Cowards worship guns. These Psycho Cowards and Criminals worshipping Guns need to be stopped.

The Pee Party aka The Hate Party is full of Sick Wacko Psychos urinating Hate, Bigotry, Ignorance and Stupidity throughout America while worshipping their Guns..

500 Million Guns on the streets makes no one safe. Execute all the dangerous violent criminals and all sex offenders and everyone will be safer.

Posted by: mawt | January 9, 2011 10:59 PM | Report abuse

Look, there was a movie made about assassinating Bush among other things. There has been hateful crap spewed from boths sides and it really started around Clinton's impeachment. Neither side owns the moral authority on this. Also, maybe we and the media react differently to these things now. I was 5 years old when Reagan was shot so I don't remember anything, but I'm pretty sure we didn't have people trying to score political points over it. In both instances, you just had a guy that was off his rocker.

Posted by: bcp76 | January 9, 2011 10:59 PM | Report abuse

Democrats commit almost all violent crime according to DOJ and voting statistics so this is no surprise. Yet another crazy leftwing murderer who hated Jews (who ironically vote 75% for Democrats). This Democrat tells us his favorite books are written by fellow crazy leftwing radicals - the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. A classmate called him a leftwing radical pothead, i.e., your average Democrat. Speaking of Mein Kampf, leftists also try to distance themselves from socialist nutcase Hitler by mislabeling the National Socialist German Worker's Party (NAZIs) far right. Hitler implemented the same Third Way brand of socialism that FDR Democrats stuck America with and Bill Clinton praised in the 90's. Nonetheless, dishonest Democrats are in overdrive trying to disown one of their fellow nutcases, but only after his intellectual colostomy bag exploded and killed/wounded many people. Disarm all Democrats and America would have far less violent crime committed with weapons. It would be even better if Democrats would practice some intellectual hygiene.

Posted by: SharpShtik | January 9, 2011 10:57 PM | Report abuse

this is a sad day. my prayers go out to those peoples families. but the media jumped right on the bandwagon accusing him of being a gun toting god loving right winger! when in fact he was a leftwing pot smoking nut job! like all democrats we already have a congresswoman who just cant wait to use a tragedy to remove more of our rights, with more regulations. i blame his family. they saw him getting loonier and loonier and not calling any one for help. if any people is responsible it is them. if my son started acting like that i would do what we call in florida baker act him! the state sends him to a mental hospital for 72 hours. this tragedy could have been stopped!

Posted by: carl6352 | January 9, 2011 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Watch (or 'read, it's all print) his videos on his youtube page. It's completely devoid of logic, not even coherent. My armchair psychological analysis is that he's schizophrenic. If not, he's definitely in the DSM IV somewhere.

As such, he's not political, he's a nutball. The politics of a crazy person don't qualify in the real world. He's living in a completely different reality from the rest of us.

Posted by: Geepers1 | January 9, 2011 10:55 PM | Report abuse

The SCARIEST thing in this dialogue is the lack of education about the history of the two most important events of the 20th century--the rise of communism (Marxism) and of fascism. Excuse me--the distinction is very important as is the history of their development! "Required reading in public institutions"? Like that is a bad thing?? Hello? If you haven't read either the Communicst Manifesto or Mein Kompf (which I thought every 8th grader had read), you need to read them! Education is exposure to ideas you don't necessarily agree with in a non-defensive way--explore those ideas and why they worked, didn't work, what harm or possible good, why the appeal, why you would or would not indulge them. My god! Did all the wars of the 20th century and all the deaths come to this? A glorification of ignorance and lessons of the past? We can't possibly govern ourselves with this level of ignorance! For god sake, on the right or left, let's pay for public education where all these major ideas are explored throughly and without dognma--and yes the original texts read in their historical context! There is no other cure.

The entire point of civilization is to balance the needs of individuals with the needs of the groups we form because we are both individuals and pack animals--yes, group animals, like dogs. We need both and the lessons about going to one extreme or the other. Mein Kopf is a particularly interesting read for those of you who remember 8th grade, because it describes with such appealing logic a horrific conclusion about nationalism and racism and the very effective scapegoating of minority groups--particularly, but not exclusively, ethnic. It is written convincingly and with alarming internal logic that was so appealing to a people who had lost prestige (chip on their shoulder) and were angry and scared of the future--so much so that they rallied around a very destructive person who promised to restore their supremecy and wipe out the "others" who seemed to be doing pretty well--they were the cause of the lack of presitge. These ideas were backed up with military discipline and guns and the people subscribed to these ideas around the dinner table and at happy social events with friends and families--all perfectly reasonable. Please lets not go there. Pay for education, restrict availability of firearms (no, the 9 year old should not have been expected to pack heat to a civil event in case a criminal or insane perspon was also packing a legally obtained firearm)

Posted by: communique101 | January 9, 2011 8:08 PM |
*************

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this post.
Just excellent.

Posted by: Gracefulboomer | January 9, 2011 10:53 PM | Report abuse

History lesson -- Stay AWAY from anyone known by all 3 of their names, otherwise you're in for some serious s*.

Seriously, both parties are guilty of extremist rhetoric, so let's stop the blaming and not lose focus on the issue which is to simply remember to be civil. We can't stop psychopaths or schizophrenics, that's not the point here.

This is a matter of common decency when expressing an opinion, nothing more and nothing less. By doing so we'll get more done, discourse will improved and communication in general will make for a better atmosphere to find common solutions. That's all.

Posted by: JimGoldbloomVA | January 9, 2011 10:53 PM | Report abuse

Hey, hey, NRA. How many kids have you killed today? It's every day, day in and day out, isn't it. It's about the vitriol, sure. It's also about the guns, with the NRA the pushers. Everyone should have a gun, they cry. Not everyone with a gun kills, or with a drug OD's. But with all those guns, like all those drugs, kids kill siblings, kids kill their mom or dad, kids kill and are killed. Hey, hey, NRA. How many kids have you killed today? Let's keep asking the NRA pushers.

Posted by: ocka-ocka-bird | January 9, 2011 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it ironic that it takes a nut job to bring out all of you nut jobs.

Posted by: archie521 | January 9, 2011 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Guns and insanity don't mix.

Posted by: Capn0ok | January 9, 2011 10:46 PM | Report abuse

MrThompson1: part of the problem

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 10:46 PM | Report abuse

gouZgounis: he specifically targeted the congresswoman. How is that not political? If he was pushed over the brink of sanity by a lack of blueberries in his IHOP pancakes, makes sense that maybe he'd attack an IHOP, no?

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 10:43 PM | Report abuse

@ drnealsmith- If the killer had used a kitchen knife he would not have been able to kill 6 people and wound 14 more in the matter of a few seconds. I don't think anyone has much to worry about kitchen knifes until someone figures out a way to make them semi automatic. Kitchen knifes are not designed to kill a great number of people in a short amount of time. A semi automatic gun with an extended clip that holds 30 rounds is. No one needs 30 rounds for self defense. This is clearly an offensive weapon and worked as it was designed to- to kill people.

Posted by: exbrown | January 9, 2011 10:43 PM | Report abuse

Where are the post blaming President Obama?

Republicans have to find away to make it his fault.

Posted by: scootab22 | January 9, 2011 10:42 PM | Report abuse

Why don't we blame Rosie O'Donnell while we're at it? She's an extremely vocal "truther" (9/11 government conspiracy theorist).
This guy really has more in common with Mark David Chapman than any single political ideology. He was freaking nuts and the congresswoman disappointed him when she didn't respond to his bizarre question at a 2007 "Congress on the Corner".
What we should be focusing on, instead of our own political agendas, is the issue of mental illness and how we ignore it until it's too late. We still have that "crazy aunt in the attic" mentality about it. This kid needed help a long time ago. Society doesn't provide for that. This is everyone's fault, Left and Right.

Posted by: Sanitysrest1 | January 9, 2011 10:40 PM | Report abuse

["Since when has the Democratic party over the last half-century advocated "vitriol and ignorance: prejudice, exclusion, selfishness, violence and death."

@GeorgeSanders

You mean like killing unborn babies?

Posted by: SChunkman | January 9, 2011 10:03 PM | ]
_________________

[SChunkman,

People--Republican and Democrat--who support abortion rights do so not because they want to murder babies, but because they value the rights of women to decide their own fate above the rights of fetuses who are not yet born. Both supporters and opponents of abortion rights can disagree on whether fetuses are complete humans with complete constitution rights without falling in a the pit of accusing each other of supporting murder and then trying to kill each other. In fact, only one side has in general tried these tactics: the anti-abortion side. It's your side that has fallen into extremist rhetoric. tskier, the mendacious liar who made the original posting, attacked the "politics of hate that have been embraced by the Democratic Party", but 90% of the hateful and violent rhetoric is coming from the right.

Posted by: GeorgeSanders]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr Thompson responds:

Well my friend (GeorgeSanders),

What you write is just like saying Jews are not complete or real people, just as the Nazis and communists did, and the Europeans are beginning to do again, and the Islamics do already.

You choose the reasons to justify violence, murder, and bearing false witness against your fellow man (that preborn babies are not fully people) and you do so at your own peril.

For what you say will be turned on you when others decide their reasons are sufficient justification to deny YOU life and liberty.

Shame on your ignorance and that of the left generally.

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 9, 2011 10:40 PM | Report abuse

shmatka69: part of the problem

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 10:39 PM | Report abuse

As others have said, I have had it with people on both sides trying to spin this into some kind of a political event, particularly on the left. Could Limbaugh, Beck or Palin have set this guy off? Maybe, but he also could have flipped out over not getting enough blueberries in his pancakes at IHOP. I worked with a very left-leaning coworker a few years back who thought that the Jews were responsible for 9/1, and that the government was trying to sterilize blacks through putting chemicals in menthol cigarettes. She was Ivy-educated too. Crazies determined to do harm come from all sides of the spectrum, have always been with us and unfortunately always will be. What scares me most is the immediate political firestorm that ensued over a senseless and brutal event that was not politically motivated. I really fear that we are on the verge of a second civil war.

Posted by: gouZgounis | January 9, 2011 10:37 PM | Report abuse

And now that Arizona along with several other states have allowed folks to carry around a concealed WEAPON in public, i.e., a semi-automatic weapon without a permit for god sake, an innocent person won't see their death coming a mile away and you damn sure don't have time to get out of the way.

Especially, with all of the Looney Tunes running around in this country, who are able to get their hands on a gun with no kind of background check, or anything.

Posted by: lcarter0311 | January 9, 2011 10:37 PM | Report abuse

"If the killer had used a kitchen knife, would there be an outcry to outlaw kitchen knives. What if he had driven a car into the crowd, would the opportunists clamor for an outlaw of cars? More car control?"

You can run from a knife but a pistol with a 30 round magazine not so much. Hard to drive a car completely into a Safeway and take out so many people....but then again you know that when you post nonsense arguments like that don't you?

Posted by: Jaddison | January 9, 2011 10:36 PM | Report abuse

chukkalady: part of the problem

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 10:36 PM | Report abuse

This guy's favorite book is the Communist Manifesto, which is one of the lefts/Democrats favorite books. This is no Tea Partier/Conservative. This guy is a wacked out lib who hates capitalism along with 50 thausand other things.

Posted by: shmatka69 | January 9, 2011 10:34 PM | Report abuse

If the killer had used a kitchen knife, would there be an outcry to outlaw kitchen knives. What if he had driven a car into the crowd, would the opportunists clamor for an outlaw of cars? More car control?

Secondly, no one has interviewed him yet and released his motives so political firebrands are irresponsible to even propose the reason. Of course, why should that stop them? Create animosity and hate where ever possible. Stir up more hate.

What were the political beliefs of other mass murderers like John Wayne Gacy, the Hillside strangler, etc.

I agree with the previous post that we recognize him as a mentally deranged killer. Call evil for what it is - evil. We also support those in their loss. Using this for political purposes is slimy.

Posted by: drnealsmith | January 9, 2011 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Oh, now the Left is pro-life????? Since when? Guns don't kill as many people as abortions but unborn babies don't count! The LEft is full of loonies....Goth loving, pot smoking loonies.

Posted by: chukkalady | January 9, 2011 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Oh, now the Left is pro-life????? Since when? Guns don't kill as many people as abortions but unborn babies don't count! The LEft is full of loonies....Goth loving, pot smoking loonies.

Posted by: chukkalady | January 9, 2011 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Hey, cadgbd -

You might want to get serious about your sources of information sometime. Just sayin'...

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Oh, now the Left is pro-life????? Since when? Guns don't kill as many people as abortions but unborn babies don't count! The LEft is full of loonies....Goth loving, pot smoking loonies.

Posted by: chukkalady | January 9, 2011 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Oh, now the Left is pro-life????? Since when? Guns don't kill as many people as abortions but unborn babies don't count! The LEft is full of loonies....Goth loving, pot smoking loonies.

Posted by: chukkalady | January 9, 2011 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Oh, now the Left is pro-life????? Since when? Guns don't kill as many people as abortions but unborn babies don't count! The LEft is full of loonies....Goth loving, pot smoking loonies.

Posted by: chukkalady | January 9, 2011 10:25 PM | Report abuse

I have two comments:

1. It was pretty obvious to me that a guy that shoots 19 people has mental problems. I fail to see what his political beliefs have to do with him committing such horrific acts. Attempts to politicize the actions of an obvious nutcase are intellectually dishonest.

2. While I support the 2nd amendment, and believe the right to own firearms is a constitutional one, somebody had to convince me that selling Glocks to any jerk that walks in and plunks down the cash isn't insanity.

I read he used an "extended" magazine. Since that would only hold 19 rounds, and he shot 19 people, and assuming some shoots didn't hit anyone since he was firing at random, that tells me he must have been using a 33 round magazine.

Either way, 19 or 33 round semi-auto handguns are FAR too much a handgun to allow just any individual off the street to walk in and buy. If you can show WHY you "need" such a weapon, fine, but I really can't think of any legitimate reason.

In any event we need to do a much better job of regulating gun sales. Responsible guns owners should clearly agree.

Posted by: MarkG9 | January 9, 2011 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Nazis are from the Left:

www.defendthefamily.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika
/html/the_pinkswastika_4th_edition_-_final.htm

America is following in the Nazi footsteps:

www.aim.org/aim-report/hitlers-green-killing-machine/

Economics:

http://freedomtofascism.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U71-KsDArFM

http://www.secretofoz.com/

Mind Control:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUYFr-uDQgg

Posted by: cadgbd | January 9, 2011 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Responding to:

Following Liberal Marxist logic:

Sarah Palin is to blame for this like forks are to blame for making Marxist Rosie O'donnell FAT!

In fact, we need to prosecute Jodie Foster for what Mark Chapman did to John Lennon!

Posted by: bobofett | January 9, 2011 9:38 PM | Report abuse

-----------

Dear bobo,

If you are a "liberal" you are not a "Marxist." Marx was opposed to liberalism and mocked it repeatedly in his writings. The basic tenets of liberalism are fundamentally opposed to Marxism, which doesn't countenance multiple parties in its utopia. Liberalism recognizes that there will always be multiple parties with different points of view than its own. Liberalism is closely allied to capitalism, whereas Marxism is designed to overcome capitalism.

Please crawl out of your Glen Beck-defined world and stop littering this site with your ignorant, adolescent twaddle.

Posted by: GeorgeSanders | January 9, 2011 10:21 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: jiji1 | January 9, 2011 4:46 PM:

Anti religious√
Loved reading Karl Marx√
Doper√
Flag burning videos√
Killed a Republican appointed Judge√
Tried to kill a "Blue Dog" / Conservative Dem Congresswoman√

Sounds like a Democrat to me, and probably a WAPO subscriber.
_______________________
And I take it you would be a Republican WAPO subscriber? I mean you WERE the first to comment here.

So, what's your point? It certainly doesn't make any sense to me.

Now, WHO's the nutjob?

Posted by: Gary12 | January 9, 2011 10:20 PM | Report abuse

"A 9 year old girl died gun advocates.
Bad going gun advocates.
Where there is guns, there was a 9 year old girl dead.
Bad going gun advocates."
========
@ Rocc00:

Nice prose. Even better grammar.

41% of pregnancies in New York end in abortion. If typical percentages work out, roughly half of those were little girls too. I'm guessing that doesn't bother you too much though.

Posted by: SChunkman | January 9, 2011 10:18 PM | Report abuse

"JimThePuritan -

Judge Roll had received death threats for the past two years, from the Teabagger crowd, for his role in the Vincente vs. Barnett case (involving illegal immigrants who were assaulted, threatened, and held at gunpoint by Arizona rancher Roger Barnett and members of his family)."

______________________________________

FrankIBC--I was just trying to make the point to the other poster that it's ridiculous to make this a Democrat vs. Republican thing, since both Democrats (the Congresswoman and her staffers)and Republicans (the judge) ended up as victims of this shooting.

Posted by: JimthePuritan | January 9, 2011 10:15 PM | Report abuse

joeblow1
Only a truly ignorant person could see a political motive behind this sicko's actions. Only a real slimeball would try to make this a political movement against anyone . Come off it man and grow up you brainwashed idiot

Posted by: omstrat | January 9, 2011 10:13 PM | Report abuse

Responding to:

"Since when has the Democratic party over the last half-century advocated "vitriol and ignorance: prejudice, exclusion, selfishness, violence and death."

@GeorgeSanders

You mean like killing unborn babies?

Posted by: SChunkman | January 9, 2011 10:03 PM |
_________________

SChunkman,

People--Republican and Democrat--who support abortion rights do so not because they want to murder babies, but because they value the rights of women to decide their own fate above the rights of fetuses who are not yet born. Both supporters and opponents of abortion rights can disagree on whether fetuses are complete humans with complete constitution rights without falling in a the pit of accusing each other of supporting murder and then trying to kill each other. In fact, only one side has in general tried these tactics: the anti-abortion side. It's your side that has fallen into extremist rhetoric. tskier, the mendacious liar who made the original posting, attacked the "politics of hate that have been embraced by the Democratic Party", but 90% of the hateful and violent rhetoric is coming from the right.

Posted by: GeorgeSanders | January 9, 2011 10:11 PM | Report abuse

There once was a time when this simply would be considered a tragedy and people would show the proper respect for the victims. Six people are dead, fourteen are injured, and Congresswoman Giffords is still in critical condition and if she hopefully survives which is not a sure thing right now she may never be the same again.

But all you of people (left and right) can think to do is turn this into a finger pointing exercise and engage in this ugly debate. Get over yourselves please and have some respect.

I like a good political debate as much as the next guy, but the kind of crap I see on here is shameful. How about expressing some condolences for the victims of this senseless act of violence and leaving it at that? Is that too much to ask?

Posted by: da55 | January 9, 2011 10:10 PM | Report abuse

sister sarah and pastor beck -- their blood is dripping from your hands. proud of yourselves? teabaggers, how's that white supremacy thing working out for ya'all? sorry to break it to you, but you can't stop it. there are many black people here and they have guns, too. there are many hispanics here, as well, with and without birth certificates. and those damn asians -- can't even tell'em apart. feeling a little bit squeezed? maybe pastor beck will get his wish and ignite a race war. kinda like manson. btw, thanks for playing (and paying my way). we have taken over your little country and you can't do anything about it. we'll take it from here.

Posted by: joeblow111 | January 9, 2011 10:10 PM | Report abuse

sister sarah and pastor beck -- their blood is dripping from your hands. proud of yourselves? teabaggers, how's that white supremacy thing working out for ya'all? sorry to break it to you, but you can't stop it. there are many black people here and they have guns, too. there are many hispanics here, as well, with and without birth certificates. and those damn asians -- can't even tell'em apart. feeling a little bit squeezed? maybe pastor beck will get his wish and ignite a race war. kinda like manson. btw, thanks for playing (and paying my way). we have taken over your little country and you can't do anything about it. we'll take it from here.

Posted by: joeblow111 | January 9, 2011 10:06 PM | Report abuse

A 9 year old girl died gun advocates.
Bad going gun advocates.
Where there is guns, there was a 9 year old girl dead.
Bad going gun advocates.

Posted by: Rocc00 | January 9, 2011 10:05 PM | Report abuse

The point of these e-mails have nothing to do with politics. The students saw Loudner for what he was and were afraid of him and not because they were politicians but because they saw an unstable person with threatening behavior regarding the class, the university, etc. He could have just as easily attacked them in the classroom.

Universities do not report such behavior to the city, county or state police. Universities want to handle everything on campus with campus police. As with the shooter at Virginia Tech, the university Loudner was attending kept information about Loudner from the "outside" police and that is why he was able to buy a gun.

Posted by: cousinpolly1948 | January 9, 2011 10:05 PM | Report abuse

sister sarah and pastor beck -- their blood is dripping from your hands. proud of yourselves? teabaggers, how's that white supremacy thing working out for ya'all? sorry to break it to you, but you can't stop it. there are many black people here and they have guns, too. there are many hispanics here, as well, with and without birth certificates. and those damn asians -- can't even tell'em apart. feeling a little bit squeezed? maybe pastor beck will get his wish and ignite a race war. kinda like manson. thanks for playing. we'll take it from here.

Posted by: joeblow111 | January 9, 2011 10:04 PM | Report abuse

ACCORDING TO THE TEA BAGGERS IT WAS THE 9 YEAR OLD GIRL'S FAULT THAT SHE IS DEAD BECAUSE SHE WASN'T PACKING HER OWN GLOCK TO SHOOT BACK.

Brilliant Arizona. Pass a law that makes it legal to conceal and carry a semi-automatic weapon with a large magazine. Too bad a couple more locals weren't around to spray some more bullets into the innocent crowd so they could exercise their 2nd amendment rights - don't mind the spattered blood and bones - guns don't kill people, people kill people - right?

Posted by: ChicagoSteve | January 9, 2011 10:03 PM | Report abuse

"Since when has the Democratic party over the last half-century advocated "vitriol and ignorance: prejudice, exclusion, selfishness, violence and death."

@GeorgeSanders

You mean like killing unborn babies?

Posted by: SChunkman | January 9, 2011 10:03 PM | Report abuse

sister sarah and pastor beck -- their blood is dripping from your hands. proud of yourselves? teabaggers, how's that white supremacy thing working out for ya'all? sorry to break it to you, but you can't stop it. there are many black people here and they have guns, too. there are many hispanics here, as well, with and without birth certificates. and those damn asians -- can't even tell'em apart. feeling a little bit squeeze? maybe pastor beck will get his wish and ignite a race war. kinda like manson. thanks for playing. we'll take it from here.

Posted by: joeblow111 | January 9, 2011 10:03 PM | Report abuse

It makes you wonder about mainstreaming doesn't it? In the good old days, this defective would have been taken out of circulation and provided for.

Posted by: wonderingstevie | January 9, 2011 10:02 PM | Report abuse

The point of these e-mails have nothing to do with politics. The students saw Loudner for what he was and were afraid of him and not because they were politicians but because they saw an unstable person with threatening behavior regarding the class, the university, etc. He could have just as easily attacked them in the classroom.

Universities do not report such behavior to the city, county or state police. Universities want to handle everything on campus with campus police. As with the shooter at Virginia Tech, the university Loudner was attending kept information about Loudner from the "outside" police and that is why he was able to buy a gun.

Posted by: cousinpolly1948 | January 9, 2011 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Responding to:

The Democrats have this "enemies list" --- denominated in epithets aimed at the people whose wallets they wish to hijack and take up residence inside. You can be a “Racist!” and you can be a “Homophobe!” and you can be a “Teabagger!” --- a homosexual man taking his partner’s scrotum into his mouth. You can be “Selfish!” and you can be a “Wacko!” and you can be a “Hick!” and you can be a “Rube!” and you can be an “Extremist!” You can be a “Right-wing-nut!” and you can be “Mentally Ill” and you can be “Deranged!” and you can be a “Warmonger!” and you can be "Unenlightened!" and you can be a “FatCat!” and you can be a “Fascist!” --- although no one more closely approaches the precise description of “Fascist!” than the usual Demo propagandist --- either official, or self-appointed.

So all you have to do to occupy multiple epithets on the Demos’ enemies list is to insist that they take their hands off yourself, off your wallet, off your property, off your kids, off your diet, off your healthcare, off your household appliances, off your car, off your bank account, off your weapons of self-defense, off your liberty, and off your freedom of speech. Insist on all these good things - and that qualifies you to be spat upon by nasty, mean-spirited scxm --- by The Friends of All Mankind --- by a gang of lying, thieving, dope-smoking, pill-popping, coke-snorting, sticky-fingered, bloodsxcking, tax-eating, gun-stealing, predatory humanitarian thugs --- by the Democrat party, in other words. No political party in the history of America more profoundly deserves absolute and outright destruction.

Posted by: OsamasPajamas | January 9, 2011 9:46 PM | Report abuse
_________________

Dear "OsamasPajamas",

You claim that the Democrats have an enemies list, although you give no evidence that Democrats are trying to eliminate you. All you can do is whimper and whine about all the name-calling you imagine you have suffered in your life, you poor babe. A sane person would decide to stop all name-calling. Not you, though: you turn around and call Democrats "lying, thieving, dope-smoking, pill-popping, coke-snorting, sticky-fingered, bloodsxcking, tax-eating, gun-stealing, predatory humanitarian thug". Not a single insult you claim to have received is as vile as the ones you spit out. A fine Christian you are.

Next you want to destroy the political party with which you disagree. Which makes you fundamentally opposed to American values. I suggest, sir, that you leave our fine, freedom-loving country and find a violent, one-party state that matches your political beliefs: move there and never return. A country founded on political liberty has no need of people like you who hate political liberty.


Posted by: GeorgeSanders | January 9, 2011 10:01 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security were on my Blog 3 times in the past 2 weeks when they should be tracking guys like Loughner, what a waste! See the jokes DHS where keeping their eye on and have lots of laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 9, 2011 10:01 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security were on my Blog 3 times in the past 2 weeks when they should be tracking guys like Loughner, what a waste! See the jokes DHS where keeping their eye on and have lots of laughs at the same time... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 9, 2011 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Hitler was a pagan and a socialist who hated capitalism and free enterprise , read his book Mein Kampf to verify this fact. Get the DVD "The Soviet Story" to help educate yourselves about the socialist brothers, Hitler and Stalin of the 1930's and 1940's. Also see this recent article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341272/Hitlers-Christmas-party-Rare-photographs-capture-leading-Nazis-celebrating-1941.html

Nazi is an abbreviation for "National Socialist Workers Party". Fascism is a term created by the Marxist Benito Mussolini. He was one of Hitler's fellow leftists. Fascism is a compound word wherein Mussolini joined the ancient Latin word fascis, with Marxism. Marxism is of course the basis for modern day socialism, and fascis means "bundle of rods" -- a symbol of statist power. All together a decidedly leftist approach to government.

Reality check--- no conservative is a socialist. Conservatives are by nature and common sense against socialism and all such leftist ideologies and murderous ways.

Leftists properly should claim Hitler as one of their own along with the other prominent mass murders of that past 100 years -- Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, among many others too numerous to name. The death toll in only the last 80 years exceeds 150 million murdered, in the name of that leftist ideology and those values.

It appears Jared Lee Loughner is among those with leftist motivations wanting to change the world. The congresswomen who was shot, Loughner said, was not left enough.

Leftists would be wise to wake up and honestly examine their history and thereby become aware of what horror their politics and ideology manifests in the world. This horror is a repeated pattern and not difficult to identify, even in its earliest stages.

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 9, 2011 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Let's see. Jared Loughner is / was an Afro-haired, hippity-dippity, loosey-goosey, touchy-feeley dopehead --- obviously a standard-issue conservative or libertarian. But I think that the Democrats know full well that this critter is ONE OF THEIRS as they desperately try to pin him on Ayn Rand, Rand Paul, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh --- and any and all of the "selfish" privately-employed taxpayers of America who feel safer when armed against all dictators, foreign and domestic. Turn off the phony-baloney machine, you Democrats --- you're wrong and you stink.

Posted by: OsamasPajamas | January 9, 2011 9:59 PM | Report abuse

It's utterly amazing that not only can the right-wingers here not see anything wrong with political hate speech, but can't even admit Nazi Fascism was a rightist movement in every sense. What defined Nazi Germany more than anything else and allowed for Hitler's rise to power? If you answer "an appeal to xenophobia and whipping up a nationalistic frenzy" you win. That is precisely the kind of rhetoric the far right has been using for many years now. "We're going to take back our country, dammit, from the America-haters, commies and socialists!"

It chills me to see some of the posts here doing that exact thing, calling Dems Marxists or Socialists, never failing to engage in the most vile manner possible. It only makes me wonder which of these posters is going to turn out to be the next Loughner. These people can't see the problem, because they ARE the problem. God help us all.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 9:57 PM | Report abuse

It's utterly amazing that not only can the right-wingers here not see anything wrong with political hate speech, but can't even admit Nazi Fascism was a rightist movement in every sense. What defined Nazi Germany more than anything else and allowed for Hitler's rise to power? If you answer "an appeal to xenophobia and whipping up a nationalistic frenzy" you win. That is precisely the kind of rhetoric the far right has been using for many years now. "We're going to take back our country, dammit, from the America-haters, commies and socialists!"

It chills me to see some of the posts here doing that exact thing, calling Dems Marxists or Socialists, never failing to engage in the most vileful manner possible. It only makes me wonder which of these posters is going to turn out to be the next Loughner. These people can't see the problem, because they ARE the problem. God help us all.

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 9:56 PM | Report abuse

The politics of hate that have been embraced by The Democrat Party and its apparently self-appointed spokesdope,Chrissy Mathews, now begin to further reveal the effects of vitriol and ignorance: prejudice, exclusion, selfishness, violence and death. That's the platform the Democrat Party espouses? Not ever for me. I prefer inclusion, empathy, civil rights, peaceful opposition and life!

Posted by: tskier | January 9, 2011 9:56 PM | Report abuse

This is another case of people coming in contact with a mentally disturbed person and doing nothing. Both the Army and his college noticed he was disturbed and rejected him. Nobody followed up or at least talked to his parents. Where were the parents? He lived with them. He obviously exhibited mental illness symptoms, why wasn't there some intervention to stop him from acting out his delusions?

Posted by: alientech | January 9, 2011 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Jared Loughner, Alleged Shooter in Gabrielle Giffords Attack, Described by Classmate as "Left-Wing Pothead"

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 9, 2011 9:55 PM | Report abuse

LOUGHNER CERTAINLY SOUNDS LIKE A TEA BAGGER.

Mistrust of government was his defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the government was behind 9/11, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system ("a New World Order currency" one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world.

Sounds exactly like the same kind of crap coming from Beck and Fox News every night. The only thing missing is the gold-line commercial

Posted by: ChicagoSteve | January 9, 2011 9:53 PM | Report abuse

This isn't a gun control story anywhere as much as it should be about people in authority failing to connect the dots when there is obviously a person that is highly likely to do something rash.

We should be questioning why concerned folks like the person in his class weren't listened to or if the authorities didn't have a means of investigating the guy, then we should look at fixing that. there's enough here from what I've seen already that should have been enough to raise flags.

Slapping gun control legislation on this will be about as effective at the creation of Homeland Security in solving terrorism, but of course, liberal hacks aren't worried about solving anything, unless you count solving their inability to push their agenda through normal channels.

I love how people jump at the opportunity to use this guy as an example of anyone conservative, yet these same people would be the exact ones whining about people mentioning he was a Muslim if in fact he turned out to be one.

Posted by: SChunkman | January 9, 2011 9:51 PM | Report abuse

The huge outpouring of hate and venom that I see here leaves me with a sad feeling about America, my favorite flyover country. I don't think Americans any longer have the words and vocabulary to deal with their problems. Just slogans and reflexive ugliness. It matters not whether the killer was of the left or the right -- his thought processes were clearly totally confused. But that he can buy a gun in Arizona before he is allowed to buy a beer says it all. There seems to be an almost total lack of empathy for those who died, from a 6-year- old to a federal judge. Instead we get hate and spittle and slogans. Guns don't kill people. But bullets sure do.

Posted by: geoffreyjames | January 9, 2011 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Can't somebody invent a National Disturbed Persons registry? Where emails like this can be submitted and these folks can be tracked.

Posted by: 20yrskinfan | January 9, 2011 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Responding to:

Read The Pink Swastika:

http://www.defendthefamily.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/html/the_pinkswastika_4th_edition_-_final.htm

Nazis are leftist.

Religious fundamentalism or The Church is associated with the right.

Remember the Protestant reformation and the French Revolution, the Revolutionary War (really about France and England). The same is true about other wars in America.

Islam is akin to Catholicism. Seriously research this.

Posted by: cadgbd | January 9, 2011 9:39 PM | Report abuse
_________________

Dear cadgbd,

A basic fallacy in logic is called the "fallacy of weak analogy". Just because two entities are similar in some or many respects does not make them equivalient. Islam is akin to Catholicism in some respects, but it is different in many others. Grow up and learn to employ logic like a mature person.

Nazis are not leftist. If Nazis had been leftist, they would not have destroyed the labor unions, demolished the Communist and Socialist party, put prominent leftists in prison and concentration camps, and eliminated leftist opposition during their entire period of rule. The Nazis did employ tactics borrowed from the left, such as soup kitchens and aid for the poor, but the Catholic church has been running similar programs for generations with any sane, honest person claiming that the Catholic church is leftist.

Posted by: GeorgeSanders | January 9, 2011 9:50 PM | Report abuse

I am sick of the hate that is fomented on BOTH sides. Why can't we all just get along? (WoW!)

Is ideology so important that we have to ascribe every horrible event to one side or the other? Assigning blame rarely helps; talking rationally and calmly and realizing that compromise works and conflict doesn't is an approach that breeds success. If anyone can't see that, then they are part of the problem in this country, not part of the solution.

Imposing one's will on others only causes resentment and revolution, not good lawmaking and certainly not religion's good works.

If you are on the right, what sort of Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or other religion says that good works or charity toward others is bad? If you are on the left, what rationalization proclaims that good works are bad? Consideration for others and thoughtful consideration of ideas and policy for our government are the bedrock of this society. If EITHER side rejects that tenet, then we have lost touch with our very basic nationhood AND our Constitution.

Didn't a rather prominent religious leader say something like, "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE OTHERS DO UNTO YOU," and "LOVE OTHERS AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF."?

GAH! Some people never learn...


Posted by: shayladane | January 9, 2011 9:50 PM | Report abuse

I really wish this comment board required that people use their real names and provide the Post with an address that could be verified.

My guess is that 99% of these gutless morons would disappear from the board.

Posted by: Keesvan | January 9, 2011 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Lets see...yep, rightwingers are automatically attacking then wondering why we wont converse with them. Stop screaming like lowlifes and act like adults, and maybe we'll listen to your ramblings more. Screaming hate from the start puts an automatic barrier up

Posted by: waterdeepchu | January 9, 2011 9:47 PM | Report abuse

The Democrats have this "enemies list" --- denominated in epithets aimed at the people whose wallets they wish to hijack and take up residence inside. You can be a “Racist!” and you can be a “Homophobe!” and you can be a “Teabagger!” --- a homosexual man taking his partner’s scrotum into his mouth. You can be “Selfish!” and you can be a “Wacko!” and you can be a “Hick!” and you can be a “Rube!” and you can be an “Extremist!” You can be a “Right-wing-nut!” and you can be “Mentally Ill” and you can be “Deranged!” and you can be a “Warmonger!” and you can be "Unenlightened!" and you can be a “FatCat!” and you can be a “Fascist!” --- although no one more closely approaches the precise description of “Fascist!” than the usual Demo propagandist --- either official, or self-appointed.

So all you have to do to occupy multiple epithets on the Demos’ enemies list is to insist that they take their hands off yourself, off your wallet, off your property, off your kids, off your diet, off your healthcare, off your household appliances, off your car, off your bank account, off your weapons of self-defense, off your liberty, and off your freedom of speech. Insist on all these good things - and that qualifies you to be spat upon by nasty, mean-spirited scxm --- by The Friends of All Mankind --- by a gang of lying, thieving, dope-smoking, pill-popping, coke-snorting, sticky-fingered, bloodsxcking, tax-eating, gun-stealing, predatory humanitarian thugs --- by the Democrat party, in other words. No political party in the history of America more profoundly deserves absolute and outright destruction.

Posted by: OsamasPajamas | January 9, 2011 9:46 PM | Report abuse

dmblum wrote:
"It's hilarious how everyone is trying to pin the tail of the assassination on the liberals or the tea partiers. America is truly a pathetic, immature country."
-----------------------
It is pathetic, isn't it? 6 people are dead, including an 11 year old girl, and all these political sycophants can do is point fingers at each other???

I weep for the future, as it seems more and more to be populated by a bunch of ideological idiots.

Posted by: gav8 | January 9, 2011 9:43 PM | Report abuse

Responding to

The politics of hate that have been embraced by The Democrat Party and its apparently self-appointed spokesdope,Paul Krugman, now begin to further reveal the effects of vitriol and ignorance: prejudice, exclusion, selfishness, violence and death. That's the platform the Democrat Party espouses? Not ever for me. I prefer inclusion, empathy, civil rights, peaceful opposition and life!

Posted by: tskier | January 9, 2011 9:26 PM | Report abuse
-------------

Dear tskier,

I am sorry to have to inform you that you are a mendacious liar. Paul Krugman has never even remotely hinted that his readers should kill or do violence to those whose policies he opposes. We have abundant evidence of shock jocks on the right encouraging violence (Savage), riots (Limbaugh), and terrorism (Beck). You've obviously forgotten about the Florida right-wing shock-jock-turned-short-lived press-spokeperson who spoke openly about using bullets if ballots failed, and sending illegal aliens back to their home countries in boxes.

Krugman has never advocated censoring the endless volumes of bilge issuing from the right wing punditry. You call a "spokesdope" a Nobel Prize-winner in economics and one of the most influential economists in the world. You only get to claim this after you have won a Nobel Prize, which, judging by your poor reasoning skills and addiction to dishonesty, is only likely to occur some centuries after h@ll freezes over.

Since when has the Democratic party over the last half-century advocated "vitriol and ignorance: prejudice, exclusion, selfishness, violence and death." According to some polls, 95% of scientists are Democrats; do scientists in general advocate vitriol and ignorance? We've seen the right wing target Hispanic Americans and Democrats defend them: how can you claim that Democrats support prejudice? The right wing credo is unfettered capitalism, which is based on self-interest, i.e., selfishness; that is a Republican belief, not a Democratic one.

In other words, your entire post is an exercise in Orwellian doublespeak. What a sorry spectacle you have made of yourself in front of thousands of readers.

Posted by: GeorgeSanders | January 9, 2011 9:43 PM | Report abuse

Read The Pink Swastika:

http://www.defendthefamily.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/html/the_pinkswastika_4th_edition_-_final.htm

Nazis are leftist.

Religious fundamentalism or The Church is associated with the right.

Remember the Protestant reformation and the French Revolution, the Revolutionary War (really about France and England). The same is true about other wars in America.

Islam is akin to Catholicism. Seriously research this.

Posted by: cadgbd | January 9, 2011 9:39 PM | Report abuse

Following Liberal Marxist logic:

Sarah Palin is to blame for this like forks are to blame for making Marxist Rosie O'donnell FAT!

In fact, we need to prosecute Jodie Foster for what Mark Chapman did to John Lennon!

Posted by: bobofett | January 9, 2011 9:38 PM | Report abuse

If the govt. had done its job and checked on this kid these people might still be alive today. We don't pay attention until something happens and it is too late. Where are the background checks? Talk to the applicant that will say alot in conversation. If there is any bit of doubt the person does not get the gun. Period.

Posted by: psadie | January 9, 2011 9:37 PM | Report abuse

That "scary freak" ain't smilin' now. It's either incarseration for life or execution. I can just see the welcome he'll get in prison. I hear they "love the smell of new meat in the morning".

Posted by: adm454 | January 9, 2011 9:36 PM | Report abuse

People like this bozo should be wiped clean of this Earth.

Posted by: sorry2say | January 9, 2011 9:36 PM | Report abuse

It's becoming clear that the shooter is one the Liberal's won, Coincidentally, the Daily Kos had an article posted a couple of days ago railing against Congresswoman Gifford for being too Conservative. It mentioned her being "Dead" four or five times, and has, of course, pulled down from the website. Looks like the Liberals need to "Tone down" their "Rhetoric".

This was posted by one of his friends:

1. @antderosa it's loughner just checked my year book. less than 20 seconds ago via Twitter for iPhone in reply to antderosa
2. @lakarune I haven't seen him since '07. Then, he was left wing. 25 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone in reply to lakarune
3. @noboa more left. I haven't seen him since '07 though. He became very reclusive. 27 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone in reply to noboa
4. @antderosa he had a lot of friends until he got alcohol poisoning in '06, & dropped out of school. Mainly loner very philosophical. 29 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone in reply to antderosa
5. @antderosa As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy. 33 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone in reply to antderosa
6. @antderosa he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class 35 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone in reply to antderosa
7. @antderosa He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in '07, asked her a question & he told me she was "stupid & unintelligent" 37 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone in reply to antderosa
8. @antderosa I can. That is him. 39 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone in reply to antderosa
9. @antderosa I went to high school, college, & was in a band with the gunman. This tragedy has just turned to horrific. 43 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone in reply to antderosa
10. Official I went to high school & college, & was in a band w/ the gunman. I can't even fathom this right now. about 1 hour ago via Twitter for iPhone
11. Saying Jared Laughner was the gunman. Really hoping that's not the same guy I went to HS with, really good friend. Freaking out right now!!! about 1 hour ago via Twitter for iPhone
12. antderosa Arizona law enforcement official: "A person in the crowd shot back at the gunman." about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck

Posted by: rcarpenter1 | January 9, 2011 9:33 PM | Report abuse

The TeaParty dream ticket for 2012:

Sarah Palin & Jared Loughner !!!

Posted by: HughBriss | January 9, 2011 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Oh you liberals are so full of crap. This guy is unstable, he probably thought that the government was sending radio waves to poison him--like "What's the Frequency Kenneth." To explain this as political is idiotic, but you cannot help that in your fetid little brains.
-------
This is exactly the point and you make it quite well, except the radio waves aren't imaginary. An unstable mind, fed the type of angry, violent rhetoric the far right likes to blather on with can of course lead directly to this kind of tragedy. Get it?

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Once again, the LEFT is attempting to gain political traction by using this tragedy as a vehicle to blame the Right, NRA, or Tea-Party. I was watching CNN in a Tallahassee, FL airport when the Giffords story broke. Before anyone even knew the identity of this kid, one reporter was reporting that it was the Right's political rehtoric that caused the shooting. Typical liberal nonsense. Jared Loughner was as left-wing as they come. In fact, he was so far left, that calling him a democrat would be unfair to individuals like Gibbons. He is a communist pure and simple. Gibbons, as you will recall, voted against Nancy Pelosi recently because she felt Pelosi was "too liberal." In fact, one left wing blogger said Gibbons was dead to him after hearing she voted against Pelosi. Get your story straight Liberals. Reign in the Kooks of your party. I know you were praying this guy was a gun-loving-right-wing-nut-job so you could use it as a tool to attack the Right; however, you will have to wait until the next tragedy to gain traction. This guy was one of yours.

Posted by: lawguy | January 9, 2011 9:28 PM | Report abuse

Responding to

Sad that he libs cannot see that this man is the product of 50 years of liberal "feelgood" indoctrination. 50 years ago freaks like this never materialized because the real men in society would have beat the sheet out of him when he was just starting to become a nut, problem solved. Now,liberal teaching, which goes against the grain of natural selection and pecking order, has allowed these misfits to become mainstream and excercise their right to be "individuals". No longer can weirdos be ostracised and whipped into shape, cowardice is rampant,illustrated by all of the fools that had contact with this freak, and then just allowed him to wreak his mayhem on innocents. I blame the liberal establishment for this, passing more gun laws will do nothing, bringing back shame and knocking the piss out of punks when they need it will solve the problem much quicker. Expect this to become more common as the stress of the 2nd depression comes to fruition. Sadly it will take as many generations to correct this problem as it did to create it. The common denominator is liberalism.

Posted by: ufools | January 9, 2011 8:47 PM | Report abuse

________________

ufools,

So the solution to society's problems is to let a gang of men beat up whoever they don't like? And what if the person they beat up for being a misfit was not a potential mass murderer, but rather a poet, or a musician, or someone with a Mexican-sounding name, or someone they just didn't like. Yes, let's go back fifty years, when gangs of men would get together and eliminate societal problems such as black people who wanted to vote. What you are talking about is mob rule. You blame "liberalism" for opposing your utopian state of mob rule by "real men," when in fact traditional conservatism is opposed to it just as well. It also goes against the Bill of Rights and the entire legal tradition of our country. Which means that you don't like our country very much. Since you hate America, why don't you leave it and find a third-world country ruled by armed bands of "real men"--you'd be right at home there.

Posted by: GeorgeSanders | January 9, 2011 9:27 PM | Report abuse


The politics of hate that have been embraced by The Democrat Party and its apparently self-appointed spokesdope,Paul Krugman, now begin to further reveal the effects of vitriol and ignorance: prejudice, exclusion, selfishness, violence and death. That's the platform the Democrat Party espouses? Not ever for me. I prefer inclusion, empathy, civil rights, peaceful opposition and life!

Posted by: tskier | January 9, 2011 9:26 PM | Report abuse

The Leftwing lunitics on these boards learned nothing from the 2010 election; namely that people are no longer willing to allow you to define them.

I get shivers down my legs, like Chris Mathews, just dreaming to the 2012 election.

Radical nut cases like Obama, Pelosi, and Reid are the best thing that have happened to Conservatives. They, and CPUSA co-opted the Democrat party and sent it down the tubes.

Posted by: dave_defeese | January 9, 2011 9:24 PM | Report abuse

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

Jared Loughner, Alleged Shooter in Gabrielle Giffords Attack, Described by Classmate as

"Left-Wing Pothead"

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 9, 2011 9:23 PM | Report abuse

This young man has serious psychological problems that do not stem from Talk Radio or any political train of thought. He is sick, period.

The Media, on the other hand, is pathological in it's single-minded mission to promote the Left Wing agenda by ANY means possible. This includes smearing any conservative movement by associating it with events like this killing spree.

The Media doesn't care what the truth is...they only care about doing damage by association. The minds behind the Media are sick--having become vexed by greed, corruption and power. Rather than practicing the true science of Journalism (gathering factual information and reporting those facts accurately in a timely fashion)they are now simply a propaganda organ.
Once again, the Media shows it's colors. They take a very disturbed individual, Jared Loughner, and affix him and his actions to a group or groups on the Media's hit list. The Truth be damned. Shame on the liberal Media. Shame!

Posted by: WisconsinPatriot | January 9, 2011 9:22 PM | Report abuse

9 blacks were killed in 9 days in PG County by other blacks. The liberal media will run the Arizona story into the ground so that america is afraid of the white yuppie dangerous college student. LMAO.

Posted by: Italiaxxx | January 9, 2011 9:22 PM | Report abuse

This obviously attentive and scared lady knew what she was seeing.

The sad state of affairs today will most definitely cause opportunists to blame the Glock handgun, a 100% lawful machine, for the acts committed (murder, assault, and attempted murder).

Does this situation sound familiar ..... Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, Columbine, John Hinkley, Jr.? They ALL were NUTS, BANANAS, Knock-Knock, nobody's home.

If there had been a legal and lawful concealed carry licensee in the crowd there might have been a lot swifter justice than the average 3-5 years and $10-20 Million that the Feds will hand out.

Simple concept, just HARD for many to comprehend ..... People KILL People. Nuts KILL people. Leftist Dictators kill people (too many to name). The "offender" broke countless local, State, and Federal laws. Arizona law likely made the criminal the ONLY person at the rally with a weapon.

The Arizona Sheriff's clearly politically motivated remarks during the official news conference should cause him to be swiftly booted from office. He abused his position and used it as a forum for his Leftist Propaganda. Vote him out. Simple fix.

As far as the remainder of Congress is concerned, get ready for a flurry of anti-gun bills. The wheels will start turning for sure when our Ruling Elite and especially their families feel threatened (real or unreal threats).

DaveInGA1
Atlanta, GA

Posted by: DaveInGA1 | January 9, 2011 9:21 PM | Report abuse

The politics of hate that have been embraced by The Democrat Party and its apparently self-appointed spokesdope,Keith Oberman, now begin to further reveal the effects of vitriol and ignorance: prejudice, exclusion, selfishness, violence and death. That's the platform the Democrat Party espouses? Not ever for me. I prefer inclusion, empathy, civil rights, peaceful opposition and life!

Posted by: tskier | January 9, 2011 9:20 PM | Report abuse

@Syllogizer

You ARE joking, right ?

Palin, Beck and Limbaugh have NEVER encouraged murder or anything even close to it. How dare you make idiotic, inflammatory remarks like that.

Posted by: chaffer | January 9, 2011 9:15 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the past 2 weeks when they should be tracking Guys like Loughner! See the jokes the DHS were wasting their time on & have some quick laughs... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 9, 2011 9:14 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security has been on my Blog, Political Follies, 3 times in the past 2 weeks when they should be tracking Guys like Loughner! See the jokes the DHS were wasting their time on & have some quick laughs... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 9, 2011 9:14 PM | Report abuse

The rest of the developed world doesn't HAVE these problems, because they are not GUN-NUT countries. But here we have a disease called "conservatism" where these developmentally arrested goons pine away to live in a nation like Afghanistan (no gays, the women stay in line, religion mixed with government and guns galore). So we get the NRA, guns everywhere, and the Arizona Six.

I hope the NIH discovers a cure for conservatism and soon. It is killing this country.

Posted by: B2O2 | January 9, 2011 9:13 PM | Report abuse

This also point to what the lawyers have done to society. At one point in history a person this sick could be committed.

Unfortunately, lawyers saw an opportunity to sue anyone that tried to have a person like this committed.

There was an old saying that you could sue a ham sandwich. Now days a ham sandwich can sue you, and win.

Posted by: dave_defeese | January 9, 2011 9:08 PM | Report abuse

"Libertarian Tea-Partier"? I forget who it was who first coined the term, but the term I found most insightful for describing Libertarians is "Anarchists of the Right".

But I am glad to see that at least some people are noticing the connection between the grossly immoral hate speech of Beck, Palin and Rush and this criminal assassination.


Oh you liberals are so full of crap. This guy is unstable, he probably thought that the government was sending radio waves to poison him--like "What's the Frequency Kenneth." To explain this as political is idiotic, but you cannot help that in your fetid little brains.

Posted by: RedStater3 | January 9, 2011 9:08 PM | Report abuse

MALCOM X [[thn/]] (Spike Lee)
vs.
JARED LOUGHRED (U.S. politics) [[^ ?>*:\ ...//2011:01:09:Sunday:21:10:75*]]

PLS RE-TWEET AS NEEDED:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150123074441427&set=a.10150112045946427.317519.221881641426 INDIRECT CHAR ASSASSINATION PREEMPTED ?

@ JOE APRIL OCTOBER

Posted by: randomsample | January 9, 2011 9:07 PM | Report abuse

I rest my case - looking at these comments. Sounds like you lot are about to declare Civil War II on each other. Do you actually care how the rest of the world views you lot? The US is a great nation but I am watching it destroy itself internally yet again

I'll stay here sitting safely in Australia.

JM Buzan

Posted by: jmbuzan | January 9, 2011 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Wallenstein is a typical Libertarian and he sees no problem with all the hate e-mail coming through -- almost 100 percent from the right wing. It's as though they can't find any legitimate complaint, so they make things up -- much like a school child. And we wonder why we have some kooks the Republican congress frothing at anything the Democrats do, good or bad.
I'm reminded of the guy that refused to listen to all the socialistic lies on CBS. When he was asked if he listened to CBS, he said "Hell no; never have, never will!"

Posted by: waynenjerriford | January 9, 2011 9:05 PM | Report abuse

Judging by these comments, most of you people need to get a life and go take a walk -- get some fresh air. Read a book. Build a bird house. Can't you see, it's this kind of anonymous, verbal vomit that IS THE PROBLEM-!!! Good grief-!!

Posted by: BadNews | January 9, 2011 9:04 PM | Report abuse

The bankruptcy of the belief systems of both parties is on display here. The best the fan boys can do is to link the other side with a psycho. What a bunch of empty headed, robotic morons you all are. Purveyors of predictable idiocy.

Posted by: independent123 | January 9, 2011 9:02 PM | Report abuse

Get off the politics and focus on the real problem: Pharmacuticals claiming the minds of young folk. They have no idea what is overcoming them, only that it is!
These drugs must be banned from consumption by our youth!

Posted by: ajdivine | January 9, 2011 9:01 PM | Report abuse

My point is with all the mentally ill and disturbed people we have in America, it should not be so simple that they can just walk into a gun store or gun show and buy a semi-automatic hangun or rifle. It's way too easy. What would be wrong with a waiting period and much better checks, and even a psych eval? Otherwise, we have no way to prevent the mentally ill or disturbed from again causing carnage.

Posted by: magnifco1000 | January 9, 2011 9:01 PM | Report abuse

Guns don't kill people; Gun nuts with guns kill people.

Posted by: citizenw | January 9, 2011 8:58 PM | Report abuse

While user thardman suggests rapid onset mental disorders blindly. This is rather a case of a kid who was probably teased a lot in high school and grade school. He was MOST DEFINITLEY teaased for his huge nose and awkward appearance, making him insane. Add this to his already present medical and mental conditions and you have this spawn of satan...May he receive the same affliction of his condemned

Posted by: johndouglas508 | January 9, 2011 8:58 PM | Report abuse

Unfortuneately there are nuts out there who will attempt to enforce thier beliefs and/or wishes with violence. Most of these guys had some sort of connection or influence (from remote to intimate) from some group of people of a similar but ...less violent mindset. This includes both right AND left wing groups. How do we silence or destroy these organizations Constitutionally? The "yelling Fire in a theater" arguement is only applicable after the onerous act has occured. And how can you Constitutionally stop a group or individual who "might" commit a crime? It ain't gonna be as easy as passing some knee jerk law or social program. They knew about the schmuck at Fort Hood but through fear of being politically incorrect nothing was done. How can one imagine a program in the much less organized general population having a prayer of succeeding? I hate to be fatalistic but sometimes Life has its ugly side.

Posted by: hendvon1 | January 9, 2011 8:57 PM | Report abuse

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

Jared Loughner, Alleged Shooter in Gabrielle Giffords Attack, Described by Classmate as "Left-Wing Pothead"

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 9, 2011 8:57 PM | Report abuse

I'm not a psychiatrist, but this is not rocket science either. I really think all the hate e-mails containing lies, and complete distortions of the truth, contribute to this type of person going off the deep end.
He is already filled with hate and frustration, and when he sees so many hate e-mails supporting what he already thinks, it gives him courage, possibly even legitimacy to perform a horrible act.
This is no different than the Muslim terrorist problem. A few with their own screwed up thinking are supported by others who have agendas and or screwed up minds. All they need is moral support to give them courage to perform hideous acts.

Posted by: waynenjerriford | January 9, 2011 8:53 PM | Report abuse

I'm not a psychiatrist, but this is not rocket science either. I really think all the hate e-mails containing lies, and complete distortions of the truth, contribute to this type of person going off the deep end.
He is already filled with hate and frustration, and when he sees so many hate e-mails supporting what he already thinks, it gives him courage, possibly even legitimacy to perform a horrible act.
This is no different than the Muslim terrorist problem. A few with their own screwed up thinking are supported by others who have agendas and or screwed up minds. All they need is moral support to give them courage to perform hideous acts.

Posted by: waynenjerriford | January 9, 2011 8:52 PM | Report abuse

"Libertarian Tea-Partier"? I forget who it was who first coined the term, but the term I found most insightful for describing Libertarians is "Anarchists of the Right".

But I am glad to see that at least some people are noticing the connection between the grossly immoral hate speech of Beck, Palin and Rush and this criminal assassination.

I am glad to see that not all are fooled by Jared's unstable mental state. For that does NOT absolve these other criminals of their guilt.

Guilt? Yes, guilt. It is immoral to fill the airwaves with hateful rhetoric based on deliberate disinformation, criminal to encourage murder.

If the courts cannot find evidence against them to indict them, then democracy is doomed, we'd be better off moving to a 'democracy' where no one will dare assassinate you without the blessing of Putin.

Posted by: Syllogizer | January 9, 2011 8:51 PM | Report abuse

The legacy of the Internet--enabling imbeciles to voice their opinions.

If what you can add to the conversation about this tragedy or political discourse is some delusional scorecard of how many murderers and madman may be loosely connected to anyone who disagress with you, you officially have nothing to say. So stop writing, talking, thinking, and go out and have a beer.

Posted by: Wallenstein | January 9, 2011 8:51 PM | Report abuse


Everything about this man's case suggests rapid-onset paranoid schizophrenia, or something closely related.

It's a genuinely sad fact about this disorder that it most commonly sets in during the age range of roughly 19 to 23 years, and affects far more males than females. Right about the time some young man should be graduating from college, or become a journeyman in a trade, logic fades, emotions become heightened, and often an individual's internal malapropriate conclusions come to have the weight of historical inexorability or even divine inspiration. Eventually total personality disintegration may ensue. It should be noted, however, that in the general population of schizophrenics, there is no greater propensity for violence than in the non-psychotic population. Paranoid schizophrenia, however, does have a certain sub-population that tends to go on armed rampages, of the sort that make the news.

There are few better reasons to keep an eye on all young adults of "college and post-collegiate age"; if they're going to go bad by going mad, this is the age. In an age-group barraged by media and harangued by opposing and mutually-incomprehensible political speech, acting strangely has unfortunately come to be thought to be almost normal.

This is a tragedy, any way you look at it. I don't want to seem to have "sympathy for the devil" but this young man's actions may possibly be traced to gross failures in our mental health and outreach systems. I wouldn't ordinarily advocate snitching out people for being weird, and I would definitely suggest that there be much more and better official and reality-based education for high-schoolers and college-age students on how to know and how to report rapid slides into deep instability. Yet it's also essential to keep in mind that if someone can get treatment in time, they might not slide into the sort of madness that ends in spraying crowds with gunfire... and students need to know that people going mad are suffering from a disease that can be treated, and ostracizing people as "weirdoes" isn't helping them get treatment.

We've seen this over and over again, though thankfully we don't usually see it on this scale.

It's time to get more serious about public mental health awareness and outreach, lest there be more such tragedies.


Posted by: thardman | January 9, 2011 8:50 PM | Report abuse

This from Infowars:
"Despite the fact that Jared Lee Loughner was a psychotic loner with “left-wing” beliefs according to those who knew him, the establishment has hastily exploited yesterday’s tragic shooting in Tucson to demonize conservatives, libertarians and gun owners while ordering Americans to “tone down the rhetoric,” which is nothing more than a euphemism for stifling dissent and coercing people to roll over on Obamacare, bailouts and whatever big government is preparing to unleash next."
Pretty well sums it up. As Rahm Emanuel always said, "Never waste A Good Crisis".

Posted by: rcarpenter1 | January 9, 2011 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Sad that he libs cannot see that this man is the product of 50 years of liberal "feelgood" indoctrination. 50 years ago freaks like this never materialized because the real men in society would have beat the sheet out of him when he was just starting to become a nut, problem solved. Now,liberal teaching, which goes against the grain of natural selection and pecking order, has allowed these misfits to become mainstream and excercise their right to be "individuals". No longer can weirdos be ostracised and whipped into shape, cowardice is rampant,illustrated by all of the fools that had contact with this freak, and then just allowed him to wreak his mayhem on innocents. I blame the liberal establishment for this, passing more gun laws will do nothing, bringing back shame and knocking the piss out of punks when they need it will solve the problem much quicker. Expect this to become more common as the stress of the 2nd depression comes to fruition. Sadly it will take as many generations to correct this problem as it did to create it. The common denominator is liberalism.

Posted by: ufools | January 9, 2011 8:47 PM | Report abuse

The politics of hate that have been embraced by The Tea Party and its apparently self-appointed spokesdope,Sarah Palin, now begin to further reveal the effects of vitriol and ignorance: prejudice, exclusion, selfishness, violence and death. That's the platform the Republican Party espouses? Not ever for me. I prefer inclusion, empathy, civil rights, peaceful opposition and life!

Posted by: BigJer1


Cut-n-paste from the DailyKook is so easy, even a liberal PO S can do it!

Once again a liberal takes an innocent life. Perhaps it's time to round them all up! YES WE CAN!!!

Posted by: RadicalLibsRmurderers | January 9, 2011 8:47 PM | Report abuse

This is no more than the like of Columbine, an overdose of antidepressents.

Posted by: ajdivine | January 9, 2011 8:46 PM | Report abuse

My thoughts and prayers go out to all the people involved in the Tuscon murders. This guy is a radical with a mental illness and drug addiction. Perhaps an accomplice.
oh, and I don't think Sarah Palin has anything to do with this nutjob.

Posted by: JBfromFL | January 9, 2011 8:44 PM | Report abuse

The politics of hate that have been embraced by The Tea Party and its apparently self-appointed spokesdope,Sarah Palin, now begin to further reveal the effects of vitriol and ignorance: prejudice, exclusion, selfishness, violence and death. That's the platform the Republican Party espouses? Not ever for me. I prefer inclusion, empathy, civil rights, peaceful opposition and life!

Posted by: BigJer1 | January 9, 2011 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Hitler was a lefty and a socialist....

Posted by: theazlit | January 9, 2011 8:43 PM | Report abuse

"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy."

~ Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in our Time

http://911essentials.com

stop being fooled into thinking that you're on a team and that you only have 2 choices .. you are being controlled

Posted by: bee3 | January 9, 2011 8:41 PM | Report abuse

OK, agree or not on political motivation, one thing is clear. Why could the nut buy a gun? We have to stop that. We need at least much better background checks and even psych evals. No more no check gun shows, private sales or 60 second gun store checks that really check nothing. Enough already.

Posted by: magnifco1000 | January 9, 2011 8:38 PM | Report abuse

"The real disgrace is people who think like this when we are clearly dealing with a mentally ill person. Way to go arze wipe. You are the disgrace for trying to work out your warped political kink at a time like this.

"

****

Uh, no reichwinger. The corporate right wing media has encouraged and stoked the fire of violence against Liberals.

Sean Hannity: "If we get rid of all the liberals, we'll solve our problems."

Tea baggers putting out posters of Obama with a target on his face.j

Tea baggers bringing automatic rifles to Presidential events (Imagine where you'd be if that happened under Bush?)

Bill O': Dr Tiller the baby killer.

The bottom line which you can't come out to admit, is that this type of ongoing rhetoric towards Democrats creates the environment that it's ok to kill Liberals. That is But i wouldn't expect you admit it. You're a Republican and it's not in your DNA to take responsibility.

Posted by: dcp26851 | January 9, 2011 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: magnifco1000
Hitler was a fascist and the original Tea Partier.
===============================

Good to see you liberal/progressives are keeping your hate filled posts up front and center amid this crisis. Do you even know how hypocritical you are? My guess is that you do and don't care that we all know you are hypocrites. You don't have much left in your arsenal to defend your failed belief system.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | January 9, 2011 8:37 PM | Report abuse

The death toll in only the last 80 years exceeds 150 million murdered, in the name of that leftist ideology and those values.

It appears Jared Lee Loughner is among those with leftist motivations wanting to change the world. The congresswomen who was shot, Loughner said, was not left enough.

Leftists would be wise to wake up and honestly examine their history and thereby become aware of what horror their politics and ideology manifests in the world. This horror is a repeated pattern and not difficult to identify, even in its earliest stages.


Posted by: MrThompson1
_____________
*Cough* Crusades *Cough* Iraq *Cough*

Sorry dude. Like I said before... all these people, all these "leftists" you've tagged... they were all conservative leftists. Tactics the same used for different ideologies.

Loughner read Mein Kampf and the communist manifesto because he, as a conservative, was studying them, and in his deluded mental state accepted his own illusory corelations.

Right wingers would do well to recognize their own illusory correlations.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Nemo68, your cogent analysis is right on point. And, as you see, it's totally ignored. I've come to the conclusion, after reading these comments on various threads, that thoughtful, well-reasoned dialogue is the last thing these commenters have in mind. The poisonous, sulfurous rhetoric is not only on talk radio & Fox. It's all over these websites, & it's never going to go away. These trolls lurk in their parents' basements & fire away, with no regard for reason or civility or grace. It's sickening.

Posted by: bigfish2 | January 9, 2011 8:36 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: AlexT3 | January 9, 2011 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Nemo68, your cogent analysis is right on point. And, as you see, it's totally ignored. I've come to the conclusion, after reading these comments on various threads, that thoughtful, well-reasoned dialogue is the last thing these commenters have in mind. The poisonous, sulfurous rhetoric is not only on talk radio & Fox. It's all over these websites, & it's never going to go away. These trolls lurk in their parents' basements & fire away, with no regard for reason or civility or grace. It's sickening.

Posted by: bigfish2 | January 9, 2011 8:35 PM | Report abuse

This video is too creepy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJf8HzEaxGg

Posted by: AlexT3 | January 9, 2011 8:33 PM | Report abuse

This video is too creepy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJf8HzEaxGg

Posted by: AlexT3 | January 9, 2011 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Wonder if the movie about GWB's assassination was denounced as inflammatory? No. Nuff said. Threats from the idiot left no big deal,imaginary threats from the right-an opportunity to be exploited by the Washington Compost.Seems as though its the libs doing all the threats and violence.

Posted by: fe59 | January 9, 2011 8:32 PM | Report abuse

This video is too creepy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJf8HzEaxGg

Posted by: AlexT3 | January 9, 2011 8:32 PM | Report abuse

So, when 0BowMao talks about his "enemies" (Republicans) and "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and "hit them back harder than they hit you," it's okay? The Left spent the better part of eight years hating Bush, call for him to be treated as a war criminal, and create movies which depict his assassination, it's applauded -- even encouraged as "patriotic to dissent." The Left RUSHED to depict this reject as a "Tea Partier," when in fact he appears to sympathize with the Left.

No wonder most of America is rejecting 0BbowMao and his Party's hypocrisy and hatred!

Posted by: fakedude1 | January 9, 2011 8:31 PM | Report abuse

Hitler was a fascist and the original Tea Partier. Germany's companies made millions off his war efforts and only turned against him when the country was being blown to kingdom come. Pinochet was another Tea Party fascist who murdered thousands of Chileans. You also have the Argentinian Junta that murdered thousands and there are many other examples of what Tea Party like rhetoric has contributed to.

Posted by: magnifco1000 | January 9, 2011 8:31 PM | Report abuse

There is 1 of these guy's in every locale I hate to say. We had one here (see link). He used to stop Fireman Field Day Parades and take the flag from the marcher and light it on fire. Luckily he got shot before he killed anybody. Check out the link. These guys are a ticking time bomb and they are still out there.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/09/josh_davies_believed_bullets_c.html

Posted by: Lenn2 | January 9, 2011 8:29 PM | Report abuse

The news media has made the shooting into a case of too hot political discourse that turned violent, when instead this is clearly a seriously mentally ill person, with plenty indications of that before the shooting. He could just as well shot a college instructor or a movie star. Think John Lennon. Irresponsible coverage by the news media.

Posted by: PeggieI | January 9, 2011 8:28 PM | Report abuse

To communique101,

Your description of Nazi Germany sounds eerily familiar to what happened here after 9/11.

And people wonder why the conservatives ... excuse me... preservatives actions are suspect :/

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 8:28 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security should be tracking people like Loughner and NOT spent the time on my Blog, 3 times in the past 2 weeks tracking my jokes... See the jokes... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 9, 2011 8:28 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security should be tracking people like Loughner and NOT spent the time on my Blog, 3 times in the past 2 weeks tracking my jokes... See the jokes... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 9, 2011 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Three points -

1. The rules involving involuntary commitments were tightened up starting in the 1950's because the rules needed to be objective, and back in the day they were subjective. Some people - the actress Frances Farmer comes to mind - were involuntarily committed and may have been put there for reasons not related to mental capability, but to other, subjective factors. In recent history, an individual at a college in Minnesota was initally forced to undergo mental evaluation because he wrote a paper supporting concealed carry - something that exists in some form in 48 states including Minnesota.

2. There is general tolerance of non-politically incorrect behavior at institutions of higher learning. See Cho at Virginia Tech.

3. Ms. Sorenson's email line "I sit by the door with my purse handy." has a clear alternative use of the purse. If she - or somebody in the class including the instructor - had had the ability with their concealed carry permit on campus to be packing heat, the attack she feared could bave been stopped just as it started to occur. The fact that he was a known problem - something not clear in the supermarket parking lot - would have had those who pack much more alert.

Posted by: GHF_LRLTD | January 9, 2011 7:59 PM | Report abuse

___________

A law school professor acquaintance said decision making as respects competence to face criminal charges is in flux. This would also imply similar present uncertainty as respects standards for commitment.

Posted by: Martial | January 9, 2011 8:26 PM | Report abuse

communique101 -- I would bet, by your writings, you were well educated at one of our most prestigious liberal institutions and you seem ignorantly unaware that in most 8th grades around the country they are not reading Mein Kopf.

Posted by: dianeremarx | January 9, 2011 8:26 PM | Report abuse

School teachers often recognise children who need help in first grade...by seventh grade...they really need help. As our states cut back on everything...more and more of our children with emotional problems will fall through the cracks. All of us need to remember that it takes a Village to Raise a Child. Don't just stand around. Become a mentor for a child! We all are stuck in this together!

Posted by: judithclaire1939 | January 9, 2011 8:26 PM | Report abuse

communique101 -- I would bet, by your writings, you were well educated at one of our most prestigious liberal institutions and you seem incredibly unaware that in most 8th grades around the country they are not reading Mein Kopf.

Posted by: dianeremarx | January 9, 2011 8:25 PM | Report abuse

To communique101,

Your description of Nazi Germany sounds eerily fmailiar to what happened here after 9/11.

And people wonder why the conservatives ... excuse me... preservatives actions are suspect :/

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 8:24 PM | Report abuse

Hitler was a pagan and a socialist who hated capitalism and free enterprise , read his book Mein Kampf to verify this fact. Get the DVD "The Soviet Story" to help educate yourselves about the socialist brothers, Hitler and Stalin of the 1930's and 1940's. Also see this recent article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341272/Hitlers-Christmas-party-Rare-photographs-capture-leading-Nazis-celebrating-1941.html

Nazi is an abbreviation for "National Socialist Workers Party". Fascism is a term created by the Marxist Benito Mussolini. He was one of Hitler's fellow leftists. Fascism is a compound word wherein Mussolini joined the ancient Latin word fascis, with Marxism. Marxism is of course the basis for modern day socialism, and fascis means "bundle of rods" -- a symbol of statist power. All together a decidedly leftist approach to government.

Reality check--- no conservative is a socialist. Conservatives are by nature and common sense against socialism and all such leftist ideologies and murderous ways.

Leftists properly should claim Hitler as one of their own along with the other prominent mass murders of that past 100 years -- Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, among many others too numerous to name. The death toll in only the last 80 years exceeds 150 million murdered, in the name of that leftist ideology and those values.

It appears Jared Lee Loughner is among those with leftist motivations wanting to change the world. The congresswomen who was shot, Loughner said, was not left enough.

Leftists would be wise to wake up and honestly examine their history and thereby become aware of what horror their politics and ideology manifests in the world. This horror is a repeated pattern and not difficult to identify, even in its earliest stages.

Posted by: MrThompson1 | January 9, 2011 8:24 PM | Report abuse

This is not about the JFK assassination or who killed Abe Lincoln! Geez! When Tea Partier Angle openly advocated killing Members of Congress ("2nd Amendment Remedies"), why did nobody in the Tea Party stand up to her? Even now, why does Boehner only issue a weak, short and late condemnation of this tragedy? How about Republicans and Tea Partiers standing up to some of the whacko followers they have, the militias and gun nuts? Why does Palin and Beck just egg on the whackos? Tea Partiers, you have some real sick puppies in your base, and it's very dangerous if you don't reign them in.

Posted by: magnifco1000 | January 9, 2011 8:23 PM | Report abuse

The real disgrace is people who think like this when we are clearly dealing with a mentally ill person. Way to go arze wipe. You are the disgrace for trying to work out your warped political kink at a time like this.

dcp26851 wrote:

The Republicans, as usual, simply can't face the fact they created this extremist environment on the radical right.

If this wasn't politiclly motivated, I don't know what is. Why her? That's the only question. If this was a one-off nut job, he wouldn't have targeted a politican, he would have done this in a mall or something.

The Republicans that are saying otherwise are a disgrace to this country.

Posted by: dcp26851 | January 9, 2011 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: gorams1 | January 9, 2011 8:22 PM | Report abuse

Community collages and bad four-year universities see these kind of students all the time. Probably, he wasn't reported to authorities because his behavior was commonplace. I'm glad to read that he was removed from class. At the university where I work one of the Deans would have attacked the Professor for undermining enrollment. Maximize profit! One of my colleagues was physically threatened by a student--her Dean told her to meet with the student and resolve the issue.

Posted by: rusty3 | January 9, 2011 8:21 PM | Report abuse

mmm. @Raify

You're an idiot of epic proportion. Probably the product of our socialized educational indoctrination camps, aka "public schools"

Hitler was NOT "right wing." Hitler was FOR government control of healthcare and manufacturing/corporations. mmmm, kind of sounds like Chairman 0BowMao.

Nice try, simpleton!

Posted by: fakedude1 | January 9, 2011 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Sara Palin has blood on her hands.

Posted by: theFieldMarshall | January 9, 2011 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Let's have more tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% and continue to cut funding for mental health services so that people like Jared and other slackers will be off the dole and back out on the street.

Posted by: t2123 | January 9, 2011 8:20 PM | Report abuse

mmm. @Raify

You're an idiot of epic proportion. Probably the product of our socialized educational indoctrination camps, aka "public schools"

Hitler was NOT "right wing." Hitler was FOR government control of healthcare and manufacturing/corporations. mmmm, kind of sounds like Chairman 0BowMao.

Nice try, simpleton!

Posted by: fakedude1 | January 9, 2011 8:20 PM | Report abuse

The right wing is coming unhinged. Virtually all the violence committed in recent times has been by right wing wackjobs and religious fundamentalists. Three cheers for atheism! This wackjob who shot Giffords and others was no doubt an avid listener to all-sheet radio, i.e.n O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Levin, Beck and the FOX News neo-nazis who dominate America's airwaves. When you nail any of these radio hatemongers, they hide behind "we're just entertainers". Yeah, right. I am a lefty but I don't condone violence of any kind.

Posted by: kamkam | January 9, 2011 8:20 PM | Report abuse

rightwing murderer

Posted by: tuttlegroup | January 9, 2011 8:20 PM | Report abuse

So the right needs to tone it down even thought the shooter appears to be crazy and more left than anything. So how about some soothing quotes from Obama.

The following came from Obama's mouth. Sorry but it was Obama who referred to Republicans in the last election as "the enemy". If I am not mistaken didn't he also make a comment along the lines of “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” That was in June 2008 at a Philadelphia fundraiser .

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

Other Obama quotes:

Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

Posted by: gz22ll | January 9, 2011 8:19 PM | Report abuse

mmm. @Raify

You're an idiot of epic proportion. Probably the product of our socialized educational indoctrination camps, aka "public schools"

Hitler was NOT "right wing." Hitler was FOR government control of healthcare and manufacturing/corporations. mmmm, kind of sounds like Chairman 0BowMao.

Nice try, simpleton!

Posted by: fakedude1 | January 9, 2011 8:19 PM | Report abuse

There is 1 of these guy's in every locale I hate to say. We had one here (see link). He used to stop Fireman Field Day Parades and take the flag from the marcher and light it on fire. Luckily he got shot before he killed anybody. Check out the link. These guys are a ticking time bomb and they are still out there.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/09/josh_davies_believed_bullets_c.html

Posted by: Lenn2 | January 9, 2011 8:17 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans, as usual, simply can't face the fact they created this extremist environment on the radical right.

If this wasn't politiclly motivated, I don't know what is. Why her? That's the only question. If this was a one-off nut job, he wouldn't have targeted a politican, he would have done this in a mall or something.

The Republicans that are saying otherwise are a disgrace to this country.

Posted by: dcp26851 | January 9, 2011 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Right wing murderers are among us.

Posted by: tuttlegroup | January 9, 2011 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Right wing murderers are among us.

Posted by: tuttlegroup | January 9, 2011 8:17 PM | Report abuse

bet the NRA is proud today

Posted by: bozhogg | January 9, 2011 8:16 PM | Report abuse

I have to say I've found some of the comments on here utterly chilling. A deranged young man, who might or might not have been politically motivated, slaughters, amongst others, a child and yet the response is not compassion for the victims or any attempt at thoughtful analysis but instead a series of bizarre rants. I've found this on other reputable websites too I'm afraid. It would appear that all you extremists out there, and I'm being kind with that definition, wish to do is to call everyone and anyone who doesn't share your narrow, crudely reductionist, world view, a 'Marxist' including, bizarrely, the democratically elected President. What's frightening about all this is just how much it reveals about contemporary American society and the strain of intolerance that runs through so much public discourse. This is nowhere more obvious than on comment pages like these. The vicious, bullying rants, the diatribes that take the place of reasoned argument. And please also spare me the amateur psychoanalysis based on the killer's reading matter. It's absurd to try and pigeonhole this character based on an eclectic collection of books he might not even have read. I've no idea what motivated him and, quite frankly, we may never know. And finally, it needs to be noted that posting on the pages of a so-called 'liberal' website doesn't automatically make that poster a 'liberal' or 'leftist'. I hardly need to point out that some of the posters on the pages of this esteemed publication are far, far from being liberals of any kind.

Posted by: Nemo68 | January 9, 2011 8:16 PM | Report abuse

I lived in Tucson for 5 years and I am not surprised; they are all drugged, drunk or blond.

Posted by: Speeder | January 9, 2011 8:15 PM | Report abuse

I do think that things have gotten too polarized and that's when people who are mentally sick can grab on those extremes and take it a few steps too far. Maybe we could keep the debates away from name calling and threats to a more healthy debate? I know, I know.. it's hard to do sometimes but we have to remember who's listening -- and I don't mean the government. ;)

Posted by: dianeremarx | January 9, 2011 8:14 PM | Report abuse

What's wrong with us. The guys is a classic paranoid schizophrenic. Duh! Takes about 1 minute of watching his youtube junk to make the diagnosis. Is psychiatry another institution that has gone to dust?

Posted by: mdgree | January 9, 2011 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Abraham Lincoln (1865) - killed by John Wilkes Booth, a Democrat
James Garfield (1881) - killed by Charles J. Guiteau, a Democrat
William McKinley (1901) - killed by Leon Czolgosz, Democratic Anarchist
John F. Kennedy (1963) - killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, Communist

Attempts on:

Andrew Jackson by Robert B. Randolph, Democrat Liberal
Franklin D. Roosevelt by Giuseppe Zangara, Democrat Liberal
Harry S. Truman by Pedro Albizu Campos, Nationalist Socialist
Gerald Ford by Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme, a follower of Charles Manson, Socialist
Ronald Reagan by John Hinckley, Jr., Registered Democrat
-----
Do some research before posting on politics, especially when you don't know anything.. ya jack wagons...
-----
Physician, heal thyself.

You list of assassins and would-be assassins is rife with right-wing conservatives. If you had a lick of education or knowledge on the subject, you'd know that the Democratic Party was the party of conservatives for much of the history of this nation. So, with the exception of Hinkley, you can also label every one of those democrat/assassins as right-wing nutjobs.

The timeline might not work for Zangara, but he was motivated by one of the same thing that the Tea Party, right-wing talking heads and other nutters use to incite their followers: anger over a suffering economy. (I suppose you see modern Dems who are also angry about the economy, but you sure don't see them assassinating anybody because of it.)

So, before you continue with your utterly confused, self-defeating arguments, perhaps you should be the one who educates themselves, what say?

Posted by: Chaspari1
_____________
FINALLY! Someone said what I've been saying all along; it isn't republican or democrat it's conservative ... uh.... um... preservative ;) Thinking!

Attempting to preserve what one perceives as being under attack from a ghost or boogie man. See also McCarthyism, Jim Jones, Tea Partiers [Takign back a nation never lost to them... obviously].

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 8:13 PM | Report abuse

The SCARIEST thing in this dialogue is the lack of education about the history of the two most important events of the 20th century--the rise of communism (Marxism) and of fascism. Excuse me--the distinction is very important as is the history of their development! "Required reading in public institutions"? Like that is a bad thing?? Hello? If you haven't read either the Communicst Manifesto or Mein Kompf (which I thought every 8th grader had read), you need to read them! Education is exposure to ideas you don't necessarily agree with in a non-defensive way--explore those ideas and why they worked, didn't work, what harm or possible good, why the appeal, why you would or would not indulge them. My god! Did all the wars of the 20th century and all the deaths come to this? A glorification of ignorance and lessons of the past? We can't possibly govern ourselves with this level of ignorance! For god sake, on the right or left, let's pay for public education where all these major ideas are explored throughly and without dognma--and yes the original texts read in their historical context! There is no other cure.

The entire point of civilization is to balance the needs of individuals with the needs of the groups we form because we are both individuals and pack animals--yes, group animals, like dogs. We need both and the lessons about going to one extreme or the other. Mein Kopf is a particularly interesting read for those of you who remember 8th grade, because it describes with such appealing logic a horrific conclusion about nationalism and racism and the very effective scapegoating of minority groups--particularly, but not exclusively, ethnic. It is written convincingly and with alarming internal logic that was so appealing to a people who had lost prestige (chip on their shoulder) and were angry and scared of the future--so much so that they rallied around a very destructive person who promised to restore their supremecy and wipe out the "others" who seemed to be doing pretty well--they were the cause of the lack of presitge. These ideas were backed up with military discipline and guns and the people subscribed to these ideas around the dinner table and at happy social events with friends and families--all perfectly reasonable. Please lets not go there. Pay for education, restrict availability of firearms (no, the 9 year old should not have been expected to pack heat to a civil event in case a criminal or insane perspon was also packing a legally obtained firearm)

Posted by: communique101 | January 9, 2011 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Tea Partiers are suspect because they have directly threatened the lives of Members of Congress. Look at Angle's remarks that "2nd Amendment remedies" need to be used against Members of Congress. And there are other examples as well. When you and your political party are threatening to kill people, you have to take responsibility for that.

Posted by: magnifco1000 | January 9, 2011 8:06 PM | Report abuse

The liberals who are trying to use this tragedy for political gain, including the sheriff and congresswoman's father, are a disgrace and should shut their mouths and show some respect to these victims.

Loughner is insane. He didn't do this for anything connected to the right or left wing. There's just as good of an argument for him being liberal, which his friend said he was, as anything else politically.

And no, those aren't "dart boards" that the Democrats used on their maps, targeting states and congressmen, those are bulls eyes, and it's no different from using cross hairs. Go into any gun shop and you can buy bulls eye targets to shoot at. Bulls eye targets are used in shooting sports and are also used in Olympic shooting events.

And Blueboy saying this woman is dead, on the Daily Kos, is just as inciting as anything else claimed by the left. Mentally disturbed people reading that kind of statement could be pushed to violence by it too.

And concerning Sarah Palin, when has she ever spewed hate or tried to incite anyone to commit violent acts? I mean for real now, not in the fantasy world of liberals.

Sarah Palin is the victim of the worst attack on someone, their character and their family that I have ever seen. The liberals and the media are so over the top with their hate for her I'm surprised no one has ever attacked her before. They even attack her kids. That one nut job who was writing a book about her even went so far as to rent the house next door so he could spy on her home life. Two years ago the liberals thought it was so funny and amusing when some home owner in very liberal West Hollywood hung her in effigy and also had McCain surrounded by flames.

And the 8 years of hate, vitriol and wishing he were dead when Bush was in office was 10 times worse than anything going on today.

You liberals better look in the mirror before accusing some one else about spreading hate around.

Posted by: Rudicris
_______
Hey ya Sheriff and victims father! You haters! Shut your pieholes! HOW DAAAARE you show moderate, reasonable concern?! Why do you hate america so much?

The vitriol over bush is justified because he used our troops, sons, daughter and cousins all, to invade an innocent country on the taxpayers dime because he was to much of a chicken**** to go after Bin Laden in a country liek Pakistan that ACTUALLY has WMD/Nuke capability.

The vitriol of Palin is jsut a matter of doing as the romans do.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Pray for Congresswoman Gifford's recovery. And for the families of all of those who died in this tragedy.

Obviously, this young man was psychotic and needed to be institutionalized. My heart goes out to his parents, however, if classmates were aware of his behavior, why weren't his parents? Perhaps, even though he lived at home, they didn't interact very much with him and didn't witness what was obviously extremely disturbed behavior.

Society must protect all of us from truly insane people, but in this age of non-judgmentalism it doesn't.

Posted by: SameOldTiredThinking | January 9, 2011 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Wow the left really has done it work well in our colleges as evidenced by the number of people claiming that Nazism and Fascism are right wing ideologies.

These are the same dimwits who think Corporatism has something to do corporations instead of the radical form of Socialism that grew out of Syndacalism and don't know that the Aryan Nation and many other white supremacist groups are socialist organizations.

Socialists, not the National Socialist in Germany of the Mussolini's Fascist Party are extreme left no matter how you want to twist definitions.

That they were associated with the American progressive and Eugenics movements and members of FDR administration wrote glowingly of the Nazi's and Fascists economic policies before WWII broke and used them as the model for their own programs is a matter of historical record...

They are most definitely not right wing no matter what any lying leftist trying to lay blame elsewhere for there oft failed and genocidal governments claims.

Read Hayek's the Road to Serfdom, it explains why leftist governments did and always do evolve into totalitarian states that murder their own citizens.

Posted by: p62c61 | January 9, 2011 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Gee....no mention of the fact that the accused shooter is apparently a pot smoking extreme liberal.....if he had been a tea party member that would have been the WAPO lead headline

Posted by: novaman4 | January 9, 2011 8:04 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure this is exactly what the founders envisioned when they suggested that a well armed MILITIA have the right to bear arms. eh?

Posted by: bozhogg | January 9, 2011 8:03 PM | Report abuse

Good point,Ralfy. And just because Communisim killed more people in the 20th century than the nazis or religious fanatics put together, doesn't mean leftist/progressives who think communisim is still a good idea should be held responsible. See? We could go at this all day.

Posted by: kaymad
_____

EXACTLY! Which is why I'm going to dinner.

Posted by: Ralfy | January 9, 2011 8:02 PM | Report abuse

@Kaymad

EXACTLY! Which is why I'm going to dinner.

Posted by: Ralfy | January 9, 2011 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Pouran-doukht got it right. Immediately every Democrat in the media, and even the congresswoman's father, made the same accusation: the Tea Party did it. And even when there has been no proof or a history of this violence, they will accuse the Tea Party anyway. How can the liberal media expect people to take them seriously anymore?

Posted by: dianeremarx | January 9, 2011 8:00 PM | Report abuse

"Why are dem/libs such scary, murdering freaks?

They kill that child yesterday, they assassinated MLK, they shot students from atop of the UT tower, they were responsible for the assassination of every assassinated president, they started the KKK, they were against women voting, blacks voting, heck, they were against free the blacks. ALL FACTS.

So, I ask again, why are dems such murdering freaks? Is this a disease?"

Posted by: ByteRider
=========================================
ByteRider's isn't in the same boat with the Tucson nutjob, but they're paddling in the same direction. ByteRider is trying to get us to make the "logical" leap that a liberal democrat is going to shoot a democrat. Evidently, her stance on health care--to vote for the President's program--didn't go far enough.

It's interesting many conservatives here are trying to say NO POLITICS were involved in this shooting, and other are trying to paint the guy as a liberal democrat.

I won't say conservatives are known for attempting to "muddy the waters" with psychological warfare type campaigns, even though the past speaks for itself. A liberal democrat shooting a democrat makes, well, zero sense. Almost as much sense as the wackjob poster who claims the Nazi's being "National Socialists" makes them closer to Communism than Fascism. Um, ever hear of this thing called World War II, where the Nazi's fought the Soviet Union?

I happen to believe the Tucson nutjob was just that...a nutjob with no discernible political leanings, but these online wackjobs claiming the nutjob shooter was some kind of flaming liberal insults the intelligence of rational human beings.

Posted by: pga6 | January 9, 2011 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Three points -

1. The rules involving involuntary commitments were tightened up starting in the 1950's because the rules needed to be objective, and back in the day they were subjective. Some people - the actress Frances Farmer comes to mind - were involuntarily committed and may have been put there for reasons not related to mental capability, but to other, subjective factors. In recent history, an individual at a college in Minnesota was initally forced to undergo mental evaluation because he wrote a paper supporting concealed carry - something that exists in some form in 48 states including Minnesota.

2. There is general tolerance of non-politically incorrect behavior at institutions of higher learning. See Cho at Virginia Tech.

3. Ms. Sorenson's email line "I sit by the door with my purse handy." has a clear alternative use of the purse. If she - or somebody in the class including the instructor - had had the ability with their concealed carry permit on campus to be packing heat, the attack she feared could bave been stopped just as it started to occur. The fact that he was a known problem - something not clear in the supermarket parking lot - would have had those who pack much more alert.

Posted by: GHF_LRLTD | January 9, 2011 7:59 PM | Report abuse

Good point,Ralfy. And just because Communisim killed more people in the 20th century than the nazis or religious fanatics put together, doesn't mean leftist/progressives who think communisim is still a good idea should be held responsible. See? We could go at this all day.

Posted by: kaymad | January 9, 2011 7:59 PM | Report abuse

The liberals who are trying to use this tragedy for political gain, including the sheriff and congresswoman's father, are a disgrace and should shut their mouths and show some respect to these victims.

Loughner is insane. He didn't do this for anything connected to the right or left wing. There's just as good of an argument for him being liberal, which his friend said he was, as anything else politically.

And no, those aren't "dart boards" that the Democrats used on their maps, targeting states and congressmen, those are bulls eyes, and it's no different from using cross hairs. Go into any gun shop and you can buy bulls eye targets to shoot at. Bulls eye targets are used in shooting sports and are also used in Olympic shooting events.

And Blueboy saying this woman is dead, on the Daily Kos, is just as inciting as anything else claimed by the left. Mentally disturbed people reading that kind of statement could be pushed to violence by it too.

And concerning Sarah Palin, when has she ever spewed hate or tried to incite anyone to commit violent acts? I mean for real now, not in the fantasy world of liberals.

Sarah Palin is the victim of the worst attack on someone, their character and their family that I have ever seen. The liberals and the media are so over the top with their hate for her I'm surprised no one has ever attacked her before. They even attack her kids. That one nut job who was writing a book about her even went so far as to rent the house next door so he could spy on her home life. Two years ago the liberals thought it was so funny and amusing when some home owner in very liberal West Hollywood hung her in effigy and also had McCain surrounded by flames.

And the 8 years of hate, vitriol and wishing he were dead when Bush was in office was 10 times worse than anything going on today.

You liberals better look in the mirror before accusing some one else about spreading hate around.

Posted by: Rudicris | January 9, 2011 7:59 PM | Report abuse

Glutton of military history.. which side does this fit better?

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Abraham Lincoln (1865) - killed by John Wilkes Booth, a Democrat
James Garfield (1881) - killed by Charles J. Guiteau, a Democrat
William McKinley (1901) - killed by Leon Czolgosz, Democratic Anarchist
John F. Kennedy (1963) - killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, Communist

Attempts on:

Andrew Jackson by Robert B. Randolph, Democrat Liberal
Franklin D. Roosevelt by Giuseppe Zangara, Democrat Liberal
Harry S. Truman by Pedro Albizu Campos, Nationalist Socialist
Gerald Ford by Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme, a follower of Charles Manson, Socialist
Ronald Reagan by John Hinckley, Jr., Registered Democrat
-----
Do some research before posting on politics, especially when you don't know anything.. ya jack wagons...
-----
Physician, heal thyself.

You list of assassins and would-be assassins is rife with right-wing conservatives. If you had a lick of education or knowledge on the subject, you'd know that the Democratic Party was the party of conservatives for much of the history of this nation. So, with the exception of Hinkley, you can also label every one of those democrat/assassins as right-wing nutjobs.

The timeline might not work for Zangara, but he was motivated by one of the same thing that the Tea Party, right-wing talking heads and other nutters use to incite their followers: anger over a suffering economy. (I suppose you see modern Dems who are also angry about the economy, but you sure don't see them assassinating anybody because of it.)

So, before you continue with your utterly confused, self-defeating arguments, perhaps you should be the one who educates themselves, what say?

Posted by: Chaspari1 | January 9, 2011 7:58 PM | Report abuse

It seems I remember a certain President, shortly before the November elections, telling hispanics to "punish their enemies" Hmmmm?? Gee, that's not inflamatory is it?

Posted by: retrobit | January 9, 2011 7:56 PM | Report abuse

We have lost our ability to recognize seriously disturbed individuals and seek help for them and protection for ourselves. This guy's ideology is beside the point. Yu have to be semi-coherent to even have an ideology. He was a paranoid schizophrenic. In the 1950s and 60s we would have known him as such.

Posted by: mpmills | January 9, 2011 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Has the US actually gone this far as to be divided politically to the point of hatred between supporters from each side. Didn't you do that once before in the 1860's at a cost of 600,000 lives? I'm not talking about the gunman but about the way the US has become so divided since the election of Obama and as mentioned by the Pima County Sheriff. I have friends in the US and cannot believe the anger towards the Democrats. I am not a supporter of the Labor Party (our version of the Democrats) but there isn't this anger bordering on hatred in this country.
Back to the gunman, how many people with mental illness in the US can access a firearm because apparently it is a right to have one.
Gun owners - you're right, guns don't kill people. A failed system kills people and the system failed somewhere and somehow and it is obvious your laws on firearms are inadequate.
Perhaps, my American friends, it is time to question what the US stands for (not the fluffy rhetoric) and why its own citizens or students can't be protected on the streets, in your homes or schools. If this is the case, why is "free" about the US?


JM Buzan
Australia

Posted by: jmbuzan | January 9, 2011 7:54 PM | Report abuse

We have lost our ability to recognize seriously disturbed individuals and seek help for them and protection for ourselves. This guy's ideology is beside the point. Yu have to be semi-coherent to even have an ideology. He was a paranoid schizophrenic. In the 1950s and 60s we would have known him as such.

Posted by: mpmills | January 9, 2011 7:54 PM | Report abuse

We have lost our ability to recognize seriously disturbed individuals and seek help for them and protection for ourselves. This guy's ideology is beside the point. Yu have to be semi-coherent to even have an ideology. He was a paranoid schizophrenic. In the 1950s and 60s we would have known him as such.

Posted by: mpmills | January 9, 2011 7:54 PM | Report abuse

My thoughts and prayers go out to all the people involved in the Tuscon murders. This guy is a radical with a mental illness and drug addiction. Perhaps an accomplice.
oh, and I don't think Sarah Palin has anything to do with this nutjob.

Posted by: JBfromFL | January 9, 2011 7:53 PM | Report abuse

@kaymad

Exactly ... just because Middle Eastern Islamic terrorists are from a conservative religious movement doesn't mean that we should paint all religious conservatives with the same brush.

Posted by: Ralfy | January 9, 2011 7:52 PM | Report abuse

This clown had as many red flags as the Virginia Tech shooter. How someone like this is allowed to acquire a semi-automatic gun escapes me. Oh yeah, we can't deny anyone their right to bear arms, no matter how unhinged he might be.

Posted by: randysbailin | January 9, 2011 7:52 PM | Report abuse

Extreme left and extreme right are known as the lunatic fringe. They mix left and right extreme views together (which make no sense) that's why they are lunatics

Posted by: jimmiM | January 9, 2011 7:51 PM | Report abuse

Lets review. Who took those people hostage in the Discovery Channel Building?? An environmental crazy. Who flew the plane into the IRS building in Austin?? A registered democrat who railed against Bush in his internet postings. Whose book did the unabomber have in his cabin?? Al Gore's. I don't blame the entire democrat party though it is tempting to do so just for fun. Sometimes nuts are simple nuts and nothing you can do about it.

Posted by: kaymad | January 9, 2011 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Why are these nuts able to buy guns? If we can't outlaw the darn things like the Europeans, at least we should be able to stop the whacks and criminals from getting them. Why not a psychological evaluation for all potential gun owners? Enough is enough!

Posted by: magnifco1000 | January 9, 2011 7:48 PM | Report abuse

No doubt this is the work of extremist left-wing hate groups like moveon.org and dailykooks. They have been threatening blue dog democrats who did not goose step behind pelosi

Posted by: google_censors | January 9, 2011 7:46 PM | Report abuse

FACTS:

Fascism and Nazism are RIGHT wing politics... however...the caveat is this--

American Right Wing DOES NOT EQUAL Europe Right Wing

Right Wing in America is NOT... repeat... NOT.. the same as right wing in America. You morons are getting your demographics mixed up. Do some research before posting on politics, especially when you don't know anything.. ya jack wagons...

Posted by: ByteRider
-______________________________________


This is a GREAT point. In general, transfering European terminoloy to an American context is misleading.
Are you sure you are same guy writing the other ByteRider posts?

Posted by: ablum1 | January 9, 2011 7:46 PM | Report abuse

The man was mentally disturbed. He committed an atrocious act and now its because of the political discourse, the ability to carry a gun and on and on. If everyone there were carrying a gun the mentally disturbed guy maybe would not have done it or been shot before he shot so many of the others. If they stop the political discourse, thinking that will halt other insane people, it will really turn into 'a government take-over' and you will likely see many shows of protest and violence.

The man was mentally disturbed...period.

Posted by: zucccchini | January 9, 2011 7:45 PM | Report abuse

I see the Drudge Report (by picking this story up and choosing a picture and headline to suggest he's a left-wing pothead) has settled on a means of framing this tragedy to avoid any kind of soul-searching about the effect of the vitriol it has contributed to.

I don't blame the Tea Party or the Left directly for this tragedy. But I do hope and pray that it will be a cause for considering what we're doing by casting each other as enemies for our policy choices and beliefs. Those who speak out in defense of this country's greatness should be seeking compromise and civility, the highest form of the citizenship that they are claiming to defend.

Posted by: noideology | January 9, 2011 7:44 PM | Report abuse

I guess you guys are talking about those violent extreme lefties like the birkenstock-wearing KKK and the granola neo-nazis

Posted by: Ralfy | January 9, 2011 7:44 PM | Report abuse

This was a public gathering. The state I live in, GA, makes it illegal to carry a concelled weapon to a public gathering. This would not have EVER happened in Georgia because nobody would have had a gun at this event. Gives you a warm fuzzy all over, huh? Progressives are pathetic in their ability to inflict more harm upon us by limiting our 2nd Amendment Rights. Had everyone had a gun, they would have blown this freak away after the 1st shot.

Posted by: Whoopie1 | January 9, 2011 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Doesn't matter what political party the kid claimed to belong too. Something was wrong with him and something or someone pushed him over the edge and gave him a target.

As incoherent and scary as his classmates claimed he was then he certainly did not know what political parties actually were.

I just wonder if he wasn't supposed to kill himself and that was in his plan but was tackled down before he could finish killing more people and himself.

People have got to stop with the political party hate mongering. Wrong is wrong no matter what party says it.

Posted by: mac7 | January 9, 2011 7:44 PM | Report abuse

This is an interesting article for those with open minds referring the Hitler and his politics.

http://jonjayray.tripod.com/hitler.html

Posted by: rockman2257 | January 9, 2011 7:42 PM | Report abuse

Bravo Mr, LePauvre Papillon is 100% correct.

Big Government control (ala Hitler, Stalin etc.) Extreme Left.

No government, anarchy, extreme right.

Posted by: rockman2257

_______________________________________

So you would place thinkers like Bakunin, Kropotkin, and Proudhon on the Right? This would make you unique in that respect.

Posted by: ablum1 | January 9, 2011 7:41 PM | Report abuse

I guess all those death threats that Sarah Palin gets daily are all from the Tea Party! Since it's the Tea Party with the violent ideology (for believing in the 2nd Amendment)...according to morons on the Left. In actuality, most of the violence has occurred by people on the left and it's been that way since the 1960's.

Posted by: fubaglady | January 9, 2011 7:41 PM | Report abuse

I don't know there seems to be more left wing violence/rhetoric out there...

August 26, 2010-Newsmax
Death Threats Force Freedom Works to Move
By David A. Patten

March 29, 2010
Man arrested for Eric Cantor death threat-Politico

Madonna Downplays Her Physical Threats Against Sarah Palin: 'It's A Metaphor'-MTV

November 19, 2010-Scranton Times
Kanjorski on Gov-Elect Rick Scott: Shoot him!-Scranton Times

Randi Rhodes Show
A spoiled child (Bush) is telling us our Social Security isn't safe anymore, so he is going to fix it for us. Well, here's your answer, you ungrateful whelp: [audio sound of 4 gunshots being fired.] Just try it, you little b*stard. [audio of gun being cocked]."

Mike Malloy:
"Drudge? Aw, Drudge, somebody ought to wrap a strong Republican entrail around his neck and hoist him up about six feet in the air and watch him bounce."

Rahm Emanuel:
“Emanuel stood up at a celebratory dinner with colleagues from the campaign, grabbed a steak knife and began rattling off a list of betrayers, shouting 'Dead! ... Dead! ... Dead!' and plunging the knife into the table after every name."

Charlie Brooker:
“.John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, John Hinckley Jr – where are you now that we need you?” (on the reelection of GWBush)

The Late Late Show with Craig Kilborn” where they superimposed the words “Snipers Wanted” over an image of Bush delivering his acceptance speech at the Republican convention.

Facebook link: Sarah Palin should die
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=31527927876

Senator Robert Menedez (D-NJ) on dealing with Republicans. December 12, 2010: It’s almost like the question of do you negotiate with terrorists.”

Now New Hampshire August 11, 2010:
Local Democrats wish death upon Sarah Palin
by ShawnMillerick

-April 14, 1865-Democratic sympathizer John Wilkes Booth assassinates President Abraham Lincoln.

-November 22, 1963-Marxist Lee Harvey Oswald shoots and kills President John F. Kennedy.

-March 24, 2010: Republican Congresswoman Jean Schmidt of Ohio receives telephoned death threats.

Giffords is dead to me linhttp://domania.us/Oaccess/POLITIC/KOS_CachePage.htmlk:

Posted by: gman992 | January 9, 2011 7:39 PM | Report abuse

@ByteRider

Mmmm ... pretty sure the right wing in America is the right wing in America.

Posted by: Ralfy | January 9, 2011 7:39 PM | Report abuse

The extremist and violent left-wing blog dailykooks was calling for her death just two days ago

Posted by: google_censors | January 9, 2011 7:39 PM | Report abuse

The funny thing about all this palin blame is that Palin herself is a complete moron. There is plenty of evidence of this. Yet, you idiots want to try to pin something on her that isn't even remotely related to her. Really? That's the best you guys can come up with?? Please do your research. You're all a joke.

Posted by: dontcare1234 | January 9, 2011 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Byterider,

That is a ridiculous post. You obviously haven't a clue about history.

A Democrat from 1865 is not remotely the same as a Democrat from 2011. In fact, they are nearly polar opposites.

Also, not sure why you would post what you did in the first place. This guy was a lunatic, not blue or red.

Posted by: pjclarkfour | January 9, 2011 7:38 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security should have been whiching this Guy and NOT checking my Blog out three times in the past two weeks. WHY would they be worried about these little jokes... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 9, 2011 7:38 PM | Report abuse

The Department of Homeland Security should have been whiching this Guy and NOT checking my Blog out three times in the past two weeks. WHY would they be worried about these little jokes... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 9, 2011 7:38 PM | Report abuse

One thing that seems clear is that Giffords, who was terribly wounded but survived, was the nearest and most obvious representative of “the government” that Loughner could find. Another is that he likely absorbed some of his anger from the vitriolic political atmosphere in the United States in general and Arizona in particular. Perhaps no one made that point better than Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, speaking to a press conference yesterday. “When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government… The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous and unfortunately Arizona has become sort of the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry.” Posted in 'Patriot' Groups, Extremist Crime by Mark Potok on January 9, 2011

Posted by: TrybedoSD | January 9, 2011 7:38 PM | Report abuse

FACTS:

Fascism and Nazism are RIGHT wing politics... however...the caveat is this--

American Right Wing DOES NOT EQUAL Europe Right Wing

Right Wing in America is NOT... repeat... NOT.. the same as right wing in America. You morons are getting your demographics mixed up. Do some research before posting on politics, especially when you don't know anything.. ya jack wagons...

Posted by: ByteRider | January 9, 2011 7:37 PM | Report abuse

Bravo Mr, LePauvre Papillon is 100% correct.

Big Government control (ala Hitler, Stalin etc.) Extreme Left.

No government, anarchy, extreme right.

It really is as simple as that and this history is not taught in school.

Leftist will froth at the mouth pointing that Hitler was a right winger because they think they think they have conservatives pigeon holed as fascists. Simple study of Hitler and his acts point overwhelmingly that he was a leftist, complete government control, removed guns from the citizenry, hated smoking, etc. How does one explain the acronym that stands for National Socialist German Workers Party? That sound like a modern Union member nowadays.

Regardless, murders like these are somewhat commonplace worldwide now. Expect 1 or 2 of these mindless, inexplicable slaughters every year. They are practically unstoppable, especially in a society as free as ours.

Posted by: rockman2257 | January 9, 2011 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Why is the lying left trying to paint him as a tea party member? I thought the tea party was a bunch of old white people?

Posted by: google_censors | January 9, 2011 7:35 PM | Report abuse


The Nazi's were the National SOCIALIST Party.

Posted by: BKelsey | January
____________________________________

Is this really an argument?
North Korea and East Germany referred to themselves as republics.... does that make it so?

Posted by: ablum1 | January 9, 2011 7:34 PM | Report abuse

@fcopier

Mmmm ... pretty sure Hitler was far right ... besides numerous readling political texts, you can quickly google either facism or nazism in Wikipedia ... far right philosphy.

Posted by: Ralfy | January 9, 2011 7:34 PM | Report abuse

@fcopier

Mmmm ... pretty sure Hitler was far right ... besides numerous readling political texts, you can quickly google either facism or nazism in Wikipedia ... far right philosphy.

Posted by: Ralfy | January 9, 2011 7:34 PM | Report abuse

This just prove that he was not mentally stable and need someone to talk to him and get him help. I wish people would had said something to the school authorities so it wouldn't had escalated to what happen yesterday.

Posted by: mtt_brbr | January 9, 2011 7:34 PM | Report abuse

Transylvania65000 :

You do realize that this guy was so mentally unstable that he would have no idea what you just posted about him? Those concepts were foreign to him. A 3rd grader had a better understanding of politics and government than he did. He wasn't just mentally diturbed, he was also unintelligent.

Posted by: dontcare1234 | January 9, 2011 7:33 PM | Report abuse

@fcopier

Mmmm ... google either facism or nazism in Wikipedia ... far right philosphy.

Posted by: Ralfy | January 9, 2011 7:33 PM | Report abuse

This just prove that he was not mentally stable and need someone to talk to him and get him help. I wish people would had said something to the school authorities so it wouldn't had escalated to what happen yesterday.

Posted by: mtt_brbr | January 9, 2011 7:33 PM | Report abuse

Nikki Giovanni, the award-winning author and professor of English at VA Tech, warned them, too. She told them if they didn't remove that boy from her class, she would resign. He was gone from her class, but the university did not heed her warnings that something was seriously wrong with him.

Posted by: gitouttahere | January 9, 2011 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Democrats are the most murderous of people--- here's some facts you can EASILY Google:

Abraham Lincoln (1865) - killed by John Wilkes Booth, a Democrat
James Garfield (1881) - killed by Charles J. Guiteau, a Democrat
William McKinley (1901) - killed by Leon Czolgosz, Democratic Anarchist
John F. Kennedy (1963) - killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, Communist

Attempts on:

Andrew Jackson by Robert B. Randolph, Democrat Liberal
Franklin D. Roosevelt by Giuseppe Zangara, Democrat Liberal
Harry S. Truman by Pedro Albizu Campos, Nationalist Socialist
Gerald Ford by Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme, a follower of Charles Manson, Socialist
Ronald Reagan by John Hinckley, Jr., Registered Democrat

Why are Democrats so evil?

Posted by: ByteRider | January 9, 2011 7:31 PM | Report abuse

The guy is a homicidal maniac. So let's leave his critical political persuasion out of it. That didn't matter. Maybe Mr. Rogers wasn't his friend. Why blame Fred? Maybe Obama having a white mother pissed him off. IT DOESN'T matter.

Let's hope the guy gets the chair before we try to "understand him".

Posted by: jrbcd | January 9, 2011 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Come on all you libs trying to make this a political issue and at the same time smear the conservatives. This nut job was not a member of the American Renaissance organization. Neither are Tea Party organizations connected to the American Renaissance! Your hatred is very evident in the remarks on this site. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks and that applies to everyone!

Posted by: granny1 | January 9, 2011 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Come on all you libs trying to make this a political issue and at the same time smear the conservatives. This nut job was not a member of the American Renaissance organization. Neither are Tea Party organizations connected to the American Renaissance! Your hatred is very evident in the remarks on this site. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks and that applies to everyone!

Posted by: granny1 | January 9, 2011 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Sorry for multiple posts - my system hung up and I pressed "submit" repeatedly. Won't do it again!

Posted by: ViewFromMyWindow | January 9, 2011 7:29 PM | Report abuse

The commenters who come here from Sludge's website need to stop trying to use political ideology to place blame. This kid was an alienated, neurotic loser: He dropped out of high school, was kicked out of a community college because of his bizarre and violent behavior, and was rejected by the military as unfit for service. He needed help with his deteriorating mental condition. His posts on the web make no sense at all, yet you try to attach political motives to his homicidal action.

Posted by: WinstonSmith7 | January 9, 2011 7:29 PM | Report abuse

March 29, 2010
Man arrested for Eric Cantor death threat-Politico

November 8, 2010--MSNBC
MSNBC Asserts Violent Rhetoric Exclusively From Right; Two Months Ago Featured Guest Calling for Violent Revolution From Left

Posted by: gman992 | January 9, 2011 7:28 PM | Report abuse

These comments are such a bore. The guy was mentally disturbed. Plain and simple. It had NOTHING to do with politics and the incessant posting about it is downright silly.

Posted by: dontcare1234 | January 9, 2011 7:28 PM | Report abuse

The left is in favor of gun control.
The right isn't.

The left is in favor of providing adequate health care to everyone, including mental health coverage.
The right isn't.

Both sides may be angry, but only the right stages automatic weapon jamborees at campaign events. Anyone else notice the call letters of Tucson's TV station? KGUN. Seriously.

Posted by: Vajrakilaya | January 9, 2011 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Shouldn't every university and college have a system where by if a student because so disruptive that he or she may have mental illness that the authorities should be alerted and this is addressed BEFORE something happens.

After Virginia Tech every college should have had something worked out for just this situation.

Posted by: maritza1 | January 9, 2011 7:27 PM | Report abuse

There si no liberal coverup here... just observations that mark him as a Ron Paul Revolutionary.

Young, unhealthy distrust of government, pining for the gold standard, hates all things he has labeled as #PC as is noted with his statements on Grammar, huge fantasy buff, inserting himself as an awakened leader of a sleeping public, delusions of grandure, irrational fears, day dreames of plots, schemers and brainwashing he must guard against, and researches the evils of communism and hitler by reading there works to discern the dastardly socialist plots hidden just below the surface of BIG GOVERNMENT, even to the point of distrusting those who claim to believe in the constitution, but oh he knows, he knows... not goign to put one past him brother... he's got oyu in his sights... oh he's goign to regroup and reload allright... and how... you jsut watch... you jsut wait... he'll show you... he's gonna take his country back or create a new one, a better one... you'll see... you'll all see!!!!


Following along now?
You get what you pay for, and Palin and Company have invested a lot in this type of thinking... a whole lot.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 7:27 PM | Report abuse

It's hilarious how everyone is trying to pin the tail of the assassination on the liberals or the tea partiers. America is truly a pathetic, immature country.

Posted by: dmblum | January 9, 2011 7:27 PM | Report abuse

And where was the almighty D.H.S. on this? My guess is that they were to busy frisking grandma at the airport and grandpa Tea Party activist with his 2' x 3' protest sign. Our government spends way to much time investigating regular US citizens and not enough time investigating anarchist followers of Marxist idealism.

When you have leftist crazy's and union thugs openly preaching violent revolution, this unfortunately, is the logical result. Would this carnage have happened if even one in twenty citizens had exercised their constitutional and legal right on that day to openly carry a firearm? I seriously doubt it.

Posted by: TonysTake | January 9, 2011 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Shouldn't every university and college have a system where by if a student because so disruptive that he or she may have mental illness that the authorities should be alerted and this is addressed BEFORE something happens.

After Virginia Tech every college should have had something worked out for just this situation.

Posted by: maritza1 | January 9, 2011 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Whatever happened to Loughner's handler? Did he slip down the communist rabbit hole?

Posted by: dicksucker | January 9, 2011 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Folks, listen. This guy wasn't glued together well enough to have any sort of rational philosophy, either liberal or conservative. It's shameful for us to use this as an occasion to attack one another.

Posted by: ViewFromMyWindow | January 9, 2011 7:25 PM | Report abuse

It seems to me that some, I say SOME, leftists and left of center media types want to use this event to stifle debate in America.

It seems to me, if you aren't on board with a statist, left wing government, you are a 'hater,' an 'extremist,' and you should pipe down. Sorry, but Obamacare sucks, Obama is an anti-business socialist of some degree or other, and he's bad for America.

If that makes me a hater, then so freaking be it.

Posted by: jmpickett | January 9, 2011 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Folks, listen. This guy wasn't glued together well enough to have any sort of rational philosophy, either liberal or conservative. It's shameful for us to use this as an occasion to attack one another.

Posted by: ViewFromMyWindow | January 9, 2011 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Every time I try to convince myself that the media jumped the gun, and that even the most conservative tea bagger could not possibly be crazy, hateful, and angry enough at liberals and Democrats to commit such a heinous act, I read the comments here and realize I was WRONG, and there are an awful lot more of you nutjobs out there!

Posted by: CAC2 | January 9, 2011 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Folks, listen. This guy wasn't glued together well enough to have any sort of rational philosophy, either liberal or conservative. It's shameful for us to use this as an occasion to attack one another.

Posted by: ViewFromMyWindow | January 9, 2011 7:23 PM | Report abuse

JimThePuritan -

Judge Roll had received death threats for the past two years, from the Teabagger crowd, for his role in the Vincente vs. Barnett case (involving illegal immigrants who were assaulted, threatened, and held at gunpoint by Arizona rancher Roger Barnett and members of his family).

Posted by: FrankIBC | January 9, 2011 7:04 PM | Report abuse

__________

Federal judges make decisions against the interests of murderers; such activity generates ill will from those predisposed to violence. Our tax dollars pay federal marshals to protect them. Judge Roll, whom C.J. Roberts properly commended a day or two ago, was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Perhaps the whackos have made it necessary for marshals to protect Representatives visiting constituents at grocery stores. Perhaps it is wisest to consider the matter sartorial: men must wear ties to important affairs; proper dress of Federal officials in public must include a man or woman with a gun.

Posted by: Martial | January 9, 2011 7:21 PM | Report abuse

This just prove that he was not mentally stable and need someone to talk to him and get him help. I wish people would had said something to the school authorities so it wouldn't had escalated to what happen yesterday.

Posted by: mtt_brbr | January 9, 2011 7:21 PM | Report abuse

well thank goodness his inalienable right to purchase a semiautomatic weapon and carry it around in public wasn't infringed.

Posted by: stoat1

===============
Right, because criminals obey all gun laws.

Posted by: BKelsey
________
Right, because open carry laws made Giffords safer.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 7:20 PM | Report abuse

This just prove that he was not mentally stable and need someone to talk to him and get him help. I wish people would had said something to the school authorities so it wouldn't had escalated to what happen yesterday.

Posted by: mtt_brbr | January 9, 2011 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Back in the 60's Kennedy locked up Dr. King. It took Dr. King's father [MLK, sr.] to go to Kennedy AND BEG to have his son release. Kennedy did so under one condition-- MLK, Sr. had to campaign for a liberal democrat runner.

Again, I ask the question-- Why are Democrats such evil, evil, evil people?

(all of this is fact, look it up)

Posted by: ByteRider | January 9, 2011 7:19 PM | Report abuse

@Raffy,

Umm.... Fascism is an ideology of the left, not of conservatism. You know, the Nationalist SOCIALIST (NAZI) Party. The same guys who seized every major industry and bent it to the will of the state. (sound familiar????) The reason pure socialists call it "right wing" is because 1) it turned out to be evil, and 2) because they were nationalists (as well as socialists) which was heresy to the one-world socialists.

Posted by: fcopier | January 9, 2011 7:18 PM | Report abuse

Ummm ... Hitler was a facist, which is a conservative politcal movement.

Posted by: Ralfy
========

The Nazi's were the National SOCIALIST Party.

Posted by: BKelsey | January 9, 2011 7:18 PM | Report abuse

Why are dem/libs such scary, murdering freaks?

They kill that child yesterday, they assassinated MLK, they shot students from atop of the UT tower, they were responsible for the assassination of every assassinated president, they started the KKK, they were against women voting, blacks voting, heck, they were against free the blacks. ALL FACTS.

So, I ask again, why are dems such murdering freaks? Is this a disease?

Posted by: ByteRider
___________
Actually, you've got every bti of that wrong; it's conservatives and conservtive ideals that did those things... oops, excuse me... misnomer... I meant PRESERVATIVES. Whether democrat or republican in party affiliation, it was a person, in all cases, seeking to preserve something they >>>imagined

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 7:18 PM | Report abuse

well thank goodness his inalienable right to purchase a semiautomatic weapon and carry it around in public wasn't infringed.

Posted by: stoat1

===============
Right, because criminals obey all gun laws.

Posted by: BKelsey | January 9, 2011 7:16 PM | Report abuse

Every time I try to convince myself that the media jumped the gun, and that even the most conservative tea bagger could not possibly be crazy, hateful, and angry enough at liberals and Democrats to commit such a heinous act, I read the comments here and realize I was WRONG, and there are an awful lot more of you nutjobs out there!

Posted by: CAC2 | January 9, 2011 7:15 PM | Report abuse

LuckyLenny--Come on. Mein Kopf is Hitler's and the Nazi movement was a right wing movement--fascism is regarded as authoritarian and right-wing and socialism is suuposedly anti-authoritarian, group oriented and an extreme of left-wing movements. Are you missing the point that he read both left and right-wing extremism? He was drawn to extremism! But the anti-government sentiment with the emphasis on military or military-like violence has its roots in right-wing movements that fan racism, nationalism, etc. No one on the left has been threatening violent overthrow or use of weapons or death. We are currently threatened by rightist leaning rhetoric--which has always surfaced in the face of fear and change. Just be aware that it always surfaces and that it is ugly and can indeed lead to violence. You can be conservative, yearn for the rosey past and believe that we are strangely independent of anything around us and should not form a civil society or pay for self-governance, but yet not advocate nationalism, racism, and fan extreme anti-government sentiments. We do want to govern ourselves, right?

Posted by: communique101 | January 9, 2011 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Nice to see you defending the racists of American Renaissance, LonewackoDotCom. Lord knows how these "smears" are going to hurt their pristine reputation.

Posted by: FrankIBC | January 9, 2011 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Transylvania6500 wrote: "There si no liberal coverup here... just observations that mark him as a Ron Paul Revolutionary."

If you had any credibility you lost it with this comment. If you think this is what Ron Paul revolutionaries do you don't have a clue about Ron Paul or his true followers. Ron Paul condones the use of force only in defense and opposes the initiation of force. He believes the use if force other than in defense is immoral.

Posted by: BKelsey | January 9, 2011 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Why do Democrats hate America so much?

Posted by: ByteRider | January 9, 2011 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Why are dem/libs such scary, murdering freaks?

They kill that child yesterday, they assassinated MLK, they shot students from atop of the UT tower, they were responsible for the assassination of every assassinated president, they started the KKK, they were against women voting, blacks voting, heck, they were against free the blacks. ALL FACTS.

So, I ask again, why are dems such murdering freaks? Is this a disease?

Posted by: ByteRider
___________
Actually, you've got every bti of that wrong; it's conservatives and conservtive ideals that did those things... oops, excuse me... misnomer... I meant PRESERVATIVES. Whether democrat or republican in party affiliation, it was a person, in all cases, seeking to preserve something they >>>imagined

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 7:11 PM | Report abuse

FrankIBC: Giffords' announcement of the event didn't mention that anyone else was going to be there, and so far there's no evidence that anyone besides her staff and Judge Roll himself knew that Roll was going to be there. And, the cops have already said that Giffords was the target.

AmRen has also responded to the DHS's smear:

http://peekurl.com/zTPRQc7

The top levels of the DHS have a clear political agenda, and that's to allow loose and illegal immigration. Their smear is part of that. Those who are intellectually honest and who aren't partisan hacks can oppose both AmRen and smears of them.

Posted by: LonewackoDotCom | January 9, 2011 7:09 PM | Report abuse

ByteRider -

You're as crazy as Loughner.

Get help.

Posted by: FrankIBC | January 9, 2011 7:09 PM | Report abuse

Ummm ... Hitler was a facist, which is a conservative politcal movement.

Posted by: Ralfy | January 9, 2011 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Weren't those books he read the same ones they gave away at the one united washington rally? Guess that proves the lefty tie-in.

Posted by: eaglesaerie | January 9, 2011 7:08 PM | Report abuse

This tragedy could have been avoided, since sadly, on retrospect, at least he announced himself as a nutcase to his fellow classmates. Many of these people with brains "swirling like a toad" (per "The Doors") never say a word... The content of his brain was merely filler; all reference to ideas or ideologies is irrelevant for such a mentality. This all assumes that the "system" for dealing with unstable, mentally ill individuals is not "broken", though we know it is; otherwise, Maj. Hasan would not have had a free hand at Ft. Hood in Texas.

Being an academic practitioner-instructor in security, and also a recent older, mature university student sitting amongst the youth, I think it important to follow through vigorously when there are real concerns that a person in your class, work or posting is a dangerous. One successful commitment of such a person could save dozens of lives.

Posted by: wookinator | January 9, 2011 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Yet right wing vitriol caused this whole thing, right?

Posted by: thelaw1 | January 9, 2011 7:05 PM | Report abuse

None of us know why he did it. Probably never will unless he suddenly become sane. Just the actions of a sick mind. Now I suggest we quit contributing to a hateful environment and if we wish to express our differences of opinion we do it with mutual respect.

Posted by: staterighter | January 9, 2011 7:05 PM | Report abuse

Why are dem/libs such scary, murdering freaks?

They kill that child yesterday, they assassinated MLK, they shot students from atop of the UT tower, they were responsible for the assassination of every assassinated president, they started the KKK, they were against women voting, blacks voting, heck, they were against free the blacks. ALL FACTS.

So, I ask again, why are dems such murdering freaks? Is this a disease?

Posted by: ByteRider | January 9, 2011 7:05 PM | Report abuse

Why are dem/libs such scary, murdering freaks?

They kill that child yesterday, they assassinated MLK, they shot students from atop of the UT tower, they were responsible for the assassination of every assassinated president, they started the KKK, they were against women voting, blacks voting, heck, they were against free the blacks. ALL FACTS.

So, I ask again, why are dems such murdering freaks? Is this a disease?

Posted by: ByteRider | January 9, 2011 7:05 PM | Report abuse

JimThePuritan -

Judge Roll had received death threats for the past two years, from the Teabagger crowd, for his role in the Vincente vs. Barnett case (involving illegal immigrants who were assaulted, threatened, and held at gunpoint by Arizona rancher Roger Barnett and members of his family).

Posted by: FrankIBC | January 9, 2011 7:04 PM | Report abuse

He was clearly deranged, but the idea that part of his motivation didn't involve politics is absurd. His rantings about the Constitution and monetary issues are those of an extreme libertarian kook.

That doesn't let the teapartiers off the hook. Their movement started as a libertarian movement, some of their members are libertarians, and their ideology is "LibertarianLite". It'd be wrong to say that he was a teaparty member or that he'd be welcome at one of their meetings. However, the teaparty's use of intimidation (swarming politicians, causing scenes at public meetings, pitchforks, revolutionary rhetoric, implying they're the only patriots in the U.S., etc. etc.) created an environment where people like him thrive.

Scroll back through my extensive coverage of them to see examples of the TPers intimidating politicians and the like (and being egged on by their leaders):

http://24ahead.com/s/tea-parties

Instead of trying to deflect blame, the partiers would be wise to tone down the rhetoric and vow to engage politicians intellectually. Based on my extensive knowledge of them, they don't have the ability to do that.

Posted by: LonewackoDotCom | January 9, 2011 7:04 PM | Report abuse

Why are dem/libs such scary, murdering freaks?

They kill that child yesterday, they assassinated MLK, they shot students from atop of the UT tower, they were responsible for the assassination of every assassinated president, they started the KKK, they were against women voting, blacks voting, heck, they were against free the blacks. ALL FACTS.

So, I ask again, why are dems such murdering freaks? Is this a disease?

Posted by: ByteRider | January 9, 2011 7:04 PM | Report abuse

FrankIBC: Dartboards? LOL. Those are target icons. Nevertheless, just look at the rhetoric Obama has used. Very incendiary.

Posted by: dledhead | January 9, 2011 7:03 PM | Report abuse

The solution? Everyone needs a gun! So say the NRA.

Posted by: KBlit | January 9, 2011 7:03 PM | Report abuse

@MylesMonroe: At least we know if the govt is controlling minds through grammar, you're safe...

Ever heard of a question mark?

Posted by: sellersjcb | January 9, 2011 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Drudgereport.com has a link to Jared Loughner’s youtube site. The shooter’s favorite books include the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. These are books of left-wing zealots. By all indications, Mr. Loughner’s politics are more left-wing than those of Barack Hussein Obama, Nancy Pelosi & the rest of the Democrat liberals. Yet the liberal-controlled media is trying to blame the shooting on Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and the Republicans. Why am I not surprised.

Posted by: LuckyLenny1970 | January 9, 2011 7:01 PM | Report abuse

How come nobody caught this?

Posted by: phvr38 | January 9, 2011 7:00 PM | Report abuse

How come nobody caught this?

Posted by: phvr38 | January 9, 2011 7:00 PM | Report abuse

Drudgereport.com has a link to Jared Loughner’s youtube site. The shooter’s favorite books include the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. These are books of left-wing zealots. By all indications, Mr. Loughner’s politics are more left-wing than those of Barack Hussein Obama, Nancy Pelosi & the rest of the Democrat liberals. Yet the liberal-controlled media is trying to blame the shooting on Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and the Republicans. Why am I not surprised.

Posted by: LuckyLenny1970 | January 9, 2011 7:00 PM | Report abuse

Again, the dynamics of the group are always channeled by the most mentally and emotionally suscible. We are influenced by each other--we are pack animals and designed to be influenced by others emotions. So, please be careful what you say, and what vibes you give off. It really does matter. Is anyone really surprised that this happened? To me, it felt like a ticking time bomb and I was waiting to see who would blow. Of course, it is someone susceptible--he picked up on the vibe and the dynamics and acted it out irrationally. Same thing happens in family dynamics on a smaller scale. The family is ill, the dynamics dysfunctional, no-one takes responsibility for creation in the unhealthy feelings swiling around and the most vulnerable personal the family shows symptoms, gets mentally or physically sick, acts out...Please, lets all take responsibility for the vitriol and understand that these are not life and death issues. Reasonablness should apply on both sides.

Posted by: communique101 | January 9, 2011 7:00 PM | Report abuse

My thoughts and prayers are with you on the loss of you loved ones and friends. May their names be remembered.

I know all to well the rending that occurs when a young life is cut short. I teach at Virginia Tech; I lost a student in my class and a friend from our faculty.

The senselessness of this tragedy is most grievous. May the Lord send you people to help you though this most difficult time.

Posted by: gll1955 | January 9, 2011 6:59 PM | Report abuse

It's absolutely normal to be afraid of a crazed leftist who has access to firearms. After all, what else fits the definition of TERRORIST?

Posted by: ecartr5
________________
Terrorist: Crazed right winger who has access to firearms.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 6:58 PM | Report abuse

I don't get it. When Major Nidal yelled Allahu Ahkbar and shot scores of people at Ft. Hood, we were told not to "jump to conclusions". When the naturalized Pakistani American citizen attempted to blow up an SUV in Times Square, we were told the same thing. Yet, in this instance, it appears that those same "enlightened" ones who told us not to jump to conclusion in the aforementioned instances IMMEDIATELY ascribed the behavior of this unstable person to an adherence to conservative values and Tea Party principles. The intellectual duplicity that has been manifesting itself the last couple of days is making me nauseous. Talk about blatant hypocrisy. By the way, who was it that said during the last presidential campaign:

‘If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun"

If you guessed the current occupant of the White House, you're right.

Posted by: sombreropoint38 | January 9, 2011 6:58 PM | Report abuse

savvyj -

There is a huge difference between a dartboard and a gunsight.

Posted by: FrankIBC

----------------

On the other hand, Frank, I assume that you fully defend the right to free speech of the filmmakers who produced an entire movie documenting the imagined assassination of George Bush.

Honestly, most of our political rhetoric when it comes to campaigns (even the word "campaign" itself!) is drawn from military metaphors. Democrats and Republicans "target" districts and opponents. ("Target" comes from a word for shield, and small shields were hung up for people to practice shooting arrows at.) Politicians use these kinds of metaphors all the time, and they always have. Our rhetoric has not really changed all that much. The problem is with society. More and more, we are producing these disturbed individuals who are disconnected from other people, and nobody is there to take responsibility for them and flag their behavior. People are raised on simulated violence, and their brains are wired to feel the thrill of that violence. Most are able to distinguish reality from fantasy, but a few aren't, and when they snap, they snap big.

This particular nut doesn't even appear to have had any specific political leanings. Most likely, he just wanted to feel big and important. He'd met Giffords and thought she was an idiot, and so she made a convenient target. He met her all the way back in 2007, too, so I doubt that Palin's map was remotely an issue in getting this started or in what prompted the attacker to pick Giffords.

Posted by: blert | January 9, 2011 6:58 PM | Report abuse

I'll say this to Dems and Repubs that are trying to leverage this situation for political gain.

People in this country are sick of your bullship. Stop pointing fingers. A congresswoman was shot and 6 other people died and many more wounded. Awful situation.

The guy is crazy. An accident waiting to happen that did.

Party hacks are doing their constituents a disservice.

Posted by: NyallsStJohnSmytheIV | January 9, 2011 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Have any of you read Hostage to the Devil by Malachi Martin? Wow.

Posted by: bambam7171 | January 9, 2011 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Not left or right -- a true tea party libertarian for sure.

Palin deserves the heat she's getting -- should have got it before. That kind of rhetoric isn't goof for anything or anybody.

But the guy is a nutjob. Can't blame anyone for this.

Posted by: MylesMonroe | January 9, 2011 6:52 PM | Report abuse

1st, to Savvyj2,
Loghner didn't actually work for Giffords aas Blueboy explains...

2nd...
This nonsense...

Perhaps this rant from this Right wing nut job will answer all questions about hateful rhetoric
Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

Posted by: randomusername
__________
Perhaps this rant from this Right wing nut job will answer all questions about hateful rhetoric
Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
----
responsive metaphor, not violent advocacy

Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
------
Good idea, most of their gusto is just bravado

Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
------
There's nothign wrong with anger; it's hate that we need to stop. Know the difference.

Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
------
Obama doesn't have a mercenary army

Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
-------
That's an out and out lie. Obama was refering to the oil company BP for it's massive screw up that killed hundreds of thousands of US jobs, not to mention the US costline

Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
------
What was the subject?

Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
-------
Legal fight, voting fight, not fist fight

Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
------
At the voting booth, not with weapons. THusfar, noone has used a weapon to punish their enemies except thsoe on the right.

Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”
-----
In the halls of congress regarding offshore drilling, healthcare taxes and the war in Iraq

It's all about knowign your audience. Palin doens't know her audience; she pretends to relate to them.
Responded to by Transylvania65000

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 6:52 PM | Report abuse

Having been in the health care field for many years it would come as no surprise to find that this kid is Schizophrenic . It is of little use to ascribe rational motives to his actions . His brain is IMO disordered by an underlying disease.

Posted by: Reidcopeland | January 9, 2011 6:51 PM | Report abuse

1st, to Savvyj2,
Loghner didn't actually work for Giffords aas Blueboy explains...

2nd...
This nonsense...

Perhaps this rant from this Right wing nut job will answer all questions about hateful rhetoric
Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

Posted by: randomusername
__________
Perhaps this rant from this Right wing nut job will answer all questions about hateful rhetoric
Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
----
responsive metaphor, not violent advocacy

Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
------
Good idea, most of their gusto is just bravado

Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
------
There's nothign wrong with anger; it's hate that we need to stop. Know the difference.

Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
------
Obama doesn't have a mercenary army

Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
-------
That's an out and out lie. Obama was refering to the oil company BP for it's massive screw up that killed hundreds of thousands of US jobs, not to mention the US costline

Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
------
What was the subject?

Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
-------
Legal fight, voting fight, not fist fight

Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
------
At the voting booth, not with weapons. THusfar, noone has used a weapon to punish their enemies except thsoe on the right.

Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”
-----
In the halls of congress regarding offshore drilling, healthcare taxes and the war in Iraq

Responded to by Transylvania65000

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 6:51 PM | Report abuse

Next: copycats

Posted by: michaelmooreisacommie | January 9, 2011 6:51 PM | Report abuse

It's absolutely normal to be afraid of a crazed leftist who has access to firearms. After all, what else fits the definition of TERRORIST?

Posted by: ecartr5 | January 9, 2011 6:49 PM | Report abuse

"The assassin had ties to the racist organization American Renaissance which has ties to the Tea Party. Now, substitute American Renaissance with Hamas and Tea Party with Al Qaeda. If this was the case, the right would be going bonkers. By the way, a DEMOCRAT was the target of an assassination. In the last two years, name a Republican who has been spat upon or shot."

______________________________

Answer: U.S. District Judge John Roll, assassinated by Jared Lee Loughner on January 8, 2011.

Posted by: JimthePuritan | January 9, 2011 6:49 PM | Report abuse

One thing Rep. Giffords wounding shows is that our political leaders are as disconnected from the two wars as are the American people. The shooting has shocked the political leadership into a seriousness, a seriousness of working together. So now it's painfully apparent that the daily tragedies befalling our soldiers and their families do not do this. Obviously those horrors have not penetrated the establishment deeply enough to force them to examine their petty bickering. Not until tragedy reached one of their own are they now crying out for the need to get along "before anyone else is hurt"...

Posted by: LawsLuvr | January 9, 2011 6:46 PM | Report abuse

savvyj -

There is a huge difference between a dartboard and a gunsight.

Posted by: FrankIBC | January 9, 2011 6:45 PM | Report abuse

@fishman2 Actually he's not a Tea Partier, he's a left wing communist according to his fellow students. So you're a bigot for assuming that.

This was a guy set off by the hate monger Olberman and MSNBC, not Sarah Palin. And when you say he shot a democrat, he shot a Blue Dog Democrat who wasn't a leftist progressive like him. Olberman is always ranting against democrats who aren't left enough. This idiot did something about it. The media is distorting the whole affair and it's sickening.

Posted by: ssag | January 9, 2011 6:44 PM | Report abuse

FrankiBC,
Talking about "targeting" people during campaigns is something both sides do. So it is disengenuous for Democrats to attack Sarah Palin over the map on her website. democrats in the past have posted maps showing bulleyes on certain Republican seats.

Why is it OK for liberals on the Daily Kos site to make inflammatory comments, and then conclude that those aren't inflaming people, but anything a Republican or Tea Party member says supposedly riles up the kooks? We heard plenty of incivility during the 8 years of George Bush. We heard the left calling him a war criminal, a liar, treasonous, etc. yet the media didn't have a problem with incivility as long as it was directed at a Republican.

Posted by: savvyj2 | January 9, 2011 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Well said stoat1, if the Sturm in a Tea(pot) Party were in power, Jared would also have the right to attach a howitzer to his pickup truck, and drive around Arizona blowing up schools, government offices and shopping malls.

Posted by: jimbendfeldt | January 9, 2011 6:43 PM | Report abuse

I find it entirely inappropriate to jump to conclusions that this was a conservative mad at Democrats so he shot one. It is completely inappropriate of any leaders on the local or national level to publicly jump to that conclusion. The truth is that there has been violence from the left. Furthermore, there is a world of difference between, on the one hand, ordinary conservatives and Tea Party patriots, and on the other hand, radical anti-government extremists who hide out in the woods with an arsenal. It is a flat out lie to say that one equals the other, just as it is not correct to associate all liberals with the violent extremist environmentalists and animal rights activists. If anyone cares whether or not we have a country left when the dust settles, we had better shut down the inflamed rhetoric on both sides.

Posted by: waitaminute | January 9, 2011 6:43 PM | Report abuse

I find it entirely inappropriate to jump to conclusions that this was a conservative mad at Democrats so he shot one. It is completely inappropriate of any leaders on the local or national level to publicly jump to that conclusion. The truth is that there has been violence from the left. Furthermore, there is a world of difference between, on the one hand, ordinary conservatives and Tea Party patriots, and on the other hand, radical anti-government extremists who hide out in the woods with an arsenal. It is a flat out lie to say that one equals the other, just as it is not correct to associate all liberals with the violent extremist environmentalists and animal rights activists. If anyone cares whether or not we have a country left when the dust settles, we had better shut down the inflamed rhetoric on both sides.

Posted by: waitaminute | January 9, 2011 6:43 PM | Report abuse

In response to JohninFL you need to get a grip on reality. This has nothing to to with anyone but the psychotic nut that committed this crime. You sound as though you have quite of built up inner hatred yourself. Try praying for those and the families affected by this tragedy. You might actually find some peace.

Posted by: Tdog116 | January 9, 2011 6:42 PM | Report abuse

This kid was nuts. The Post can spin it any way they want, but he's still NUTS!

Posted by: Kansasgirl | January 9, 2011 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Seriously folks...we used to try to help disturbed people in institutions...yes, they weren't perfect, but, relatives, parents were able to try to get help for them. We had another lone shooter whe had parents who must have been aware of his problems. I wonder if more parents might step up and ask for help with a grown person who is living at home. With the new health care bill, the alleged shooter could have been on his parents health insurance (if they had insurance) I have never been in Arizona, but if this young man was allowed to buy a gun...ok, but why was he allowed to conceal it? Why not require a shoulder holster for man and a regular cowboy holster for women? If I had seen a young man at any rally with a gun in a holster...yes, I would have moved back. We love our guns, but, we are a violent country...and our history shows how violent we are. This is a sad time for all Americans and for our friends around the world who wonder why we love our "cowboys" so much! Also, did the Community College have any responsibility to talk with the parents or get help for this person? Health care is important!

Posted by: judithclaire1939 | January 9, 2011 6:42 PM | Report abuse

To JoshinFahaheel,

You are mistaken. The guy doesnt' hate god or christianity and certainly ISN'T an atheist. This is a case of, I'm not gonna take anythign you give to me, evena bible, BECAUSE it was you BIG GOVERNMENT that gave it to me!"

There si no liberal coverup here... just observations that mark him as a Ron Paul Revolutionary.

Young, unhealthy distrust of government, pining for the gold standard, hates all things he has labeled as #PC as is noted with his statements on Grammar, huge fantasy buff, inserting himself as an awakened leader of a sleeping public, delusions of grandure, irrational fears, day dreames of plots, schemers and brainwashing he must guard against, and researches the evils of communism and hitler by reading there works to discern the dastardly socialist plots hidden just below the surface of BIG GOVERNMENT, even to the point of distrusting those who claim to believe in the constitution, but oh he knows, he knows... not goign to put one past him brother... he's got oyu in his sights... oh he's goign to regroup and reload allright... and how... you jsut watch... you jsut wait... he'll show you... he's gonna take his country back or create a new one, a better one... you'll see... you'll all see!!!!


Following along now?
You get what you pay for, and Palin and Company have invested a lot in this type of thinking... a whole lot.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps this rant from this Right wing nut job will answer all questions about hateful rhetoric
Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

Posted by: randomusername | January 9, 2011 6:40 PM | Report abuse

savvyj2 wrote:

"There were some comments about this Congresswoman made on the Daily Kos site a few days ago. One of the commentators said that she was 'dead" to him because she was a moderate and voted against Nancy Pelosi for leader. Why no mention of this in the media?"
------------------------------------------

Maybe because "so&so is dead to me" is a common phrase that does not indicate violent intent?

Maybe because the most violent thing this poster threatened to do, was to stop giving money and volunteer time to the Congresswoman? (That's in the rest of the post, which Teabaggers omit.)

You Teabaggers really need to get better talking points.

Posted by: FrankIBC | January 9, 2011 6:39 PM | Report abuse

As a non-American I am depressed by the amount and evel of the abuse in these comments. To the point
This man seems to have been mentally ill. It's a pity such people can obtain firearms.
Could I point out to ptgrunner that you don't need guns to have a free society. I live in Ireland and my wife is from Switzerland. Switzerland has wide gun availability (and a citizen's reserve army who practice shooting regularly) while Ireland doesn't have either. Both are free societies.

Posted by: alphasun | January 9, 2011 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Deemers you stirred up the pot and now you want to put the blame elsewhere. The party in this case matters not the point is this guy had a known history and again nothing was done to warn him off or deter the coming incident. He got himself all worked up and decided that his act was up and ready to stage, loved marx, had previous incidents and enough vitrol to get himself a weapon, not exactly a right winger but when your that crazy and no on stops you, what does it matter.

Posted by: ONTIME | January 9, 2011 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Americans.
Calling each other idiots because their brain waves fluctuates differently than their own?
Have fun withering away as a country simpletons.

Posted by: admiral245453 | January 9, 2011 6:38 PM | Report abuse

The comments on this story make me wonder which one of you frothing at the mouth nutcases (left and right) are the next to kill someone. Stop drinking your party's koolaid, no one has the monopoly on truth in this country. Nor is every negative event on the planet the full responsibility of your opposing party. "liberals this' and "conservatives that" but you forget that whether a D or an R next to your name, WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS. Stop acting like savage animals.

Posted by: em71 | January 9, 2011 6:38 PM | Report abuse

I am ashamed to call the Dupe the sheriff of my hometown, Tucson, he's an embarrassment. Left, right, red, blue, all are equally guilty of spewing extreme rhetoric. Gabby didn't deserve to be shot and no one deserved to die at the hands of that madman. Anyone who thinks Palin is a leader and not the attention hound she really is isn't firing all cylinders. Get well soon Gabby.

Posted by: izzyeddy | January 9, 2011 6:38 PM | Report abuse

This is not a political problem. It is a mental health problem. There isn't a single political party in this country that advocates this kind of sick behavior. The comments that Pima Co. sheriff made yesterday were a disgrace.

Posted by: mikedanmom | January 9, 2011 6:37 PM | Report abuse

The man was psychotic. This has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. It has everything to do with society failing to identify and adequately treat those with mental illness. You will never be able to identify and treat everyone. However, when it gets to the point that many people get killed, I'm sure that many people did not recognize or ignored the signs of mental illness in this individual at a time that it could have been treated. Therefore, society and ultimately the individuals making up society, including yourselves share in some of the blame. Why don't you take some time to get educated about mental illness and work and getting programs funded so that we can avoid as many of these tragedies as possible. We don't need another Virginia Tech or Arizona.

Posted by: Rationalthinker6 | January 9, 2011 6:36 PM | Report abuse

None of this would have happened had barry, big sis the bulldyke, and judge roll enforced our southern border.

Posted by: dicksucker | January 9, 2011 6:35 PM | Report abuse

“As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday. “I haven’t seen him since ’07 though. He became very reclusive.”

“He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in ’07, asked her a question & he told me she was ‘stupid & unintelligent,’ ” she wrote.
--------
Sure doesn't sound like a tea partisan to me. Sounds like one of those anti-bush-dementia-syndrome peeps motivated my progressive vitriol.

Shot a blue dog democrat who was declared 'dead to us' last week on Daily Kos

A Pelosi-survivor, she voted against Pelosi last week.
No statement form leader Nancy yet. Interesting.

Thinks those that disagree with him are stupid and un-intilligent, a very progressive trait.

Paranoid about the constitution, like democrats in congress last week, except for Gifford who participated. Coincidence?

Favorite books were by socialist madmen responsible for millions of deaths and national destruction.

Posted by: getjiggly2 | January 9, 2011 6:35 PM | Report abuse

The assassin had ties to the racist organization American Renaissance which has ties to the Tea Party. Now, substitute American Renaissance with Hamas and Tea Party with Al Qaeda. If this was the case, the right would be going bonkers. By the way, a DEMOCRAT was the target of an assassination. In the last two years, name a Republican who has been spat upon or shot.

Posted by: fishman2 | January 9, 2011 6:35 PM | Report abuse

The assassin had ties to the racist organization American Renaissance which has ties to the Tea Party. Now, substitute American Renaissance with Hamas and Tea Party with Al Qaeda. If this was the case, the right would be going bonkers. By the way, a DEMOCRAT was the target of an assassination. In the last two years, name a Republic who has been spat upon or shot.

Posted by: fishman2 | January 9, 2011 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Either this guy was a self created demon or demons created him that we just haven't been able to get all the info on yet.

But curtailing free speech means banning all violent movies, TV shows, books, magazines and then finally conversations.

Why wasn't there anyone there as a body guard?

http://911essentials.com

Posted by: bee3 | January 9, 2011 6:33 PM | Report abuse

There were some comments about this Congresswoman made on the Daily Kos site a few days ago. One of the commentators said that she was 'dead" to him because she was a moderate and voted against Nancy Pelosi for leader. Why no mention of this in the media?

Posted by: savvyj2 | January 9, 2011 6:31 PM | Report abuse

We're not going down like the 1917 Russian peasantry.

If you want our weapons, you are going to have to take them by force, not fiat.

Posted by: dicksucker | January 9, 2011 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Way to go Washington Post!!! How about another vague as hell story. WHAT WAS HIS BEHAVIOR?? All I see here are a few comments from WOMEN, that they felt the guy was "weird".. Oh, well that explains it all! Thanks! Because we all know women don't find most men "weird", due to lack of looks and finances, and dress..... You see what i'm getting at, don't you.

Posted by: blupheonix | January 9, 2011 6:30 PM | Report abuse

this nut was a walking contradiction..Hitler's book "my struggle"(written while in prison)....and "The communist manifesto" as favorite reading material...add to that "Animal Farm"..."Farenheit 451"....Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan.....it's not the material that is disturbing...it is his interpretation and application of what some of those books politically said..add to that some influence from people like Beck()Gold is the way)...and...we are in dark times...and add to that the ability of a nut to buy weapons and you have the cause for this tragedy....it's not a right wing problem or a left wing problem...it is a debate problem...government should function by truth and debate...not inflammatory remarks and lies which can tip the scales in the mind of a nut like this one.

Posted by: kiler616 | January 9, 2011 6:30 PM | Report abuse

The liberals are covering their backsides against further voter backlash by smearing this guys background. Heres a hint, you don't have to be a conservative to own a gun, but liberals think only conservatives own guns. Everything else in this guys background points to the left, anarchist and an atheist, who hates religion and the capitalist republic. He said he couldn't take it anymore AFTER the Democrats lost power in the House not AFTER Obama was elected. Put two and two together! Of course I'm sure most of the liberals know all of this but purposely blur the guys background for fear of being associated with him in even a remote way. He may even give a press conference and say he's a right winger to further incite the flames of hate from the left, as in a false flag. We shall see. If he is coherent enough and demonstrates an ideology that swings to the left this story will go away with a quickness as it already is starting to now only in day 2. The story has already shifted to the Congresswoman's survival status,and those at the attack. If he is on the right the news would be wall to wall coverage about HIM. Since it's NOT all about him now only at day TWO, it proves he's associated with the LEFT.

But the press's blurring is working, just like the IRS plane guy's background got blurred. Except this guy is alive so he will eventually tell a story and that may not be news worthy for the liberal press.

Posted by: JoshinFahaheel | January 9, 2011 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Condor30303,

The Ft. Hood shooter is a well documented troubled brother in arms whose deminishing respect for those around him who wouldn't listen to his religious and moral crisis of conscience caused him to seek out an exploitative, radical false Imam. A false Imam who took advantage of his weakened mental state.

What is well documented are his complaints to his CO's and fellow brothers and administrators of some of the harrassment he'd received. The final nail in the coffin being him put up for transfer to the front lines in Iraq. What is also well documented is that all of that was swept under the rug.

I dont' condone his actions, just observe that the signs were there and nothign was done, so, the responsibility for the deaths is widespread.

The only similarities I observe between these two is that they both got wrapped up in the private delusions festering in their own skulls. Skulls given motive and oppportunitty by those closest to him. Both of them loners in most respsects... havign friends, but not feeling connected, for whatever reasons.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 6:29 PM | Report abuse

After reading many of the posts on here as well as other websites, I am so happy I declared myself as an independent. There has been a lot of ugly rhetoric on both sides of the aisle over the past three years. Now each party is trying to blame the other for this horrible event. Has anyone considered Meth or other mind altering drugs could have led this mentally ill kid to act out?

Posted by: ca67klein | January 9, 2011 6:29 PM | Report abuse

It's too bad that some on the left and in the media (is there a difference?) have immediately started assigning blame for what this kid did to Sarah Palin and the Tea Party. It's interesting how concerned the media has been about rhetoric and incivility since Barack Obama took office. However, we saw the same sorts of rhetoric and incivility during the entire 8 years of George Bush. I recall seeing Code Pink disrupting congressional hearings and throwing something at Condeleeza Rice. The media was not calling for a change in the discourse as long as the nasty rhetoric was directed at a Republican.

Posted by: savvyj2 | January 9, 2011 6:27 PM | Report abuse

@Itzajob She was on GMA (or some other show) this morning and goes by @caitieparker on Twitter. Look it up.

Posted by: DanStlMo | January 9, 2011 6:26 PM | Report abuse

I encourage every gun toting conservative to report all of these leftist loonies. The hipocrisy is out of control. They claim Palin is responsible for this because of words she has said but in doing so they spew words of hate and preach violence to teach a lesson. If they think conservatives should watch what they say then they should live by the rules they want to enforce. Pick one and report it. They are all just as capable as Jared to commit such an atrocious act!!!! (except they will say it was justified...which I'm sure is exactly what he's doing in jail right now)

Posted by: trobbins16 | January 9, 2011 6:26 PM | Report abuse

arg2015153:

Add these to your list.

Dan White, who killed San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Councilman Harvey Milk.

Yigal Amir, who killed Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin.

Khalid Islambouli, who killed Egyptian Prime Minister Anwar Al Sadat.

Chilean DINA agents who killed former Chilean ambassador to USA Orlando Letelier.

James Earl Ray, who killed Martin Luther King.

Nathuram Godse, who killed Indian leader Mahatma Gandhi.

John Wilkes Booth, who killed Abraham Lincoln.

Posted by: FrankIBC | January 9, 2011 6:26 PM | Report abuse

@mawt

Juvenile comments from a hate-spewing idiot.

You want targets and bullseyes and hit lists?
Read this from your friends at the Daily KOS, written in 2008:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/541568

Read quick, before they scrub it.

Posted by: chaffer | January 9, 2011 6:25 PM | Report abuse

The Left knows no sham. The have already assigned causal facts to something that we know little about. It's even more disgusting, they look for tragedies to reinforce their political biases....hence the speed by which they lay the blame for this tragedy...

Posted by: jamalsbu | January 9, 2011 6:25 PM | Report abuse

@Itzajob She was on GMA (or some other show) this morning and goes by @caitieparker Look it up.

Posted by: DanStlMo | January 9, 2011 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Is he still alive? Why?

Posted by: 14401 | January 9, 2011 6:24 PM | Report abuse

The Left knows no sham. The have already assigned causal facts to something that we know little about. It's even more disgusting, they look for tragedies to reinforce their political biases....hence the speed by which they lay the blame for this tragedy...

Posted by: jamalsbu | January 9, 2011 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Re: Tucson Killer
*Thank goodness one good American in the crowd was carrying a gun and fired at the killer.
*The killer is a chemical brain which the Left considers "cool".
*The killer's favored reading list includes The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. His complete list is required (forced) reading at most public colleges.
*Sheriff Dupnik (a Charles Dickens name) was so out-of-line he should be impeached immediately. Where was he when the killer opened up?
* The hate America MSM must have talking-points lists on-file (and provided for them by the big boys) that they retrieve for any event, i.e., "Pull #14!". We have been through their routines over and over.
*Unfortunately many brainwashed people are falling for the attacks/inferences against good, honorable loyal Americans, i.e., Gov. Sarah. Please note one of the leftist mantras against her is that she did not complete her term as governor. The left in Alaska were trying to force her into bankruptcy with annoyance lawsuits. Note also she is not a quitter - she didn't quit on her last child.
*Must be MSM that is reponsible for this crime as they engage in hate speech against loyal, decent Americans 24/7.

Posted by: pjdjmj | January 9, 2011 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Re: Tucson Killer
*Thank goodness one good American in the crowd was carrying a gun and fired at the killer.
*The killer is a chemical brain which the Left considers "cool".
*The killer's favored reading list includes The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. His complete list is required (forced) reading at most public colleges.
*Sheriff Dupnik (a Charles Dickens name) was so out-of-line he should be impeached immediately. Where was he when the killer opened up?
* The hate America MSM must have talking-points lists on-file (and provided for them by the big boys) that they retrieve for any event, i.e., "Pull #14!". We have been through their routines over and over.
*Unfortunately many brainwashed people are falling for the attacks/inferences against good, honorable loyal Americans, i.e., Gov. Sarah. Please note one of the leftist mantras against her is that she did not complete her term as governor. The left in Alaska were trying to force her into bankruptcy with annoyance lawsuits. Note also she is not a quitter - she didn't quit on her last child.
*Must be MSM that is reponsible for this crime as they engage in hate speech against loyal, decent Americans 24/7.

Posted by: pjdjmj | January 9, 2011 6:24 PM | Report abuse

I hope the hate mongers in the rightwing press, rush limbough, glen beck and fox news are finally happy. This blood is on their hands!

Posted by: coexisting | January 9, 2011 6:23 PM | Report abuse

The Left knows no sham. The have already assigned causal facts to something that we know little about. It's even more disgusting, they look for tragedies to reinforce their political biases....hence the speed by which they lay the blame for this tragedy...

Posted by: jamalsbu | January 9, 2011 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin targets her peers, John Boehner says our country is broke and broken. Str8s tell gays they can't be loved. If you are sick & poor, it's too expensive to save your life. Growing up gay? Bring in the bullies. These are the messages we are hearing. Don't believe them.

What messages did this kid Jared hear and download? Sounds like all the "teachers" and adults wanted to do is get rid of him. That is never the answer.

We each matter. Our children matter. And what we say matters! The only end to the tragedies we experience is love.

Posted by: TrybedoSD | January 9, 2011 6:23 PM | Report abuse

"Bizarre messages from the Coward with Guns Murderer how? These are the same messages from Sarah Idiot Bigot, Glenn Hitler and Rush Obese Moron.

These Born Again Hate- Filled Idiot Bigots and Fairy Tale Based Frauds who incite violence and murder should be held accountable.

Mission Accomplished!!! Another Scumbag Coward with a Gun. A Scumbag Coward who shoots a woman point blank through the brain. The same should be done to this Scumbag Coward.

The National Right to Annihilate (NRA) and the Guns Owned Party (GOP) are Domestic Terrorist Organizations and they should be RICOed and shutdown but with the Guns Owned Party's support nothing will happen but the continued flooding of the streets with guns. Only Criminals and Cowards worship guns. These Psycho Cowards and Criminals worshipping Guns need to be stopped.

The Pee Party aka The Hate Party is full of Sick Wacko Psychos urinating Hate, Bigotry, Ignorance and Stupidity throughout America while worshipping their Guns..

500 Million Guns on the streets makes no one safe. Execute all the dangerous violent criminals and all sex offenders and everyone will be safer."

Read your own words and know that I reported this filth to the site and tried to have you added to a list. You're a hipocrit but you don't think you're capable of commiting such a tragedy. Well I disagree. So I hope you make this "LIST" all you yuppy liberals are ranting about.

Posted by: trobbins16 | January 9, 2011 6:21 PM | Report abuse

These type of disturbed individuals, are always in our midst. Even when they are suspected as being disturbed, it seems almost impossible to know, if they are capable of such a horrible act. People are conditioned not to notify the police, when they suspect such individuals, as we know there is nothing that can be done about them, until they commit a crime. Tracking a terrorist who is in our midst, who we suspect will kill, when his handler tells him so, is a completely different approach, deployed by our intelligence organizations. Lincoln and both Kennedy's, were shot by nutbars.

Posted by: dangreen3 | January 9, 2011 6:20 PM | Report abuse

If Sarah Palin does want her map putting political adversaries in crosshairs to be associated with a nut who literally puts those political adversaries in crosshairs, ...then she should not create maps putting political adversaries in crosshairs. If people who support Sarah Palin do not want to be associated with someone who puts up a map putting political adversaries in crosshairs, then they should not support someone who creates a map which puts political adversaries in crosshairs.

Palin, Michelle Bachman, and Sharron Angle have all used thinly veiled analogies which advocate gun violence against their political adversaries. Should they not wish people to connect them to an incident such as this, they should stop giving people reasons to do it.

Posted by: steinmike | January 9, 2011 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Bizarre messages from the Coward with Guns Murderer how? These are the same messages from Sarah Idiot Bigot, Glenn Hitler and Rush Obese Moron.

These Born Again Hate- Filled Idiot Bigots and Fairy Tale Based Frauds who incite violence and murder should be held accountable.

Mission Accomplished!!! Another Scumbag Coward with a Gun. A Scumbag Coward who shoots a woman point blank through the brain. The same should be done to this Scumbag Coward.

The National Right to Annihilate (NRA) and the Guns Owned Party (GOP) are Domestic Terrorist Organizations and they should be RICOed and shutdown but with the Guns Owned Party's support nothing will happen but the continued flooding of the streets with guns. Only Criminals and Cowards worship guns. These Psycho Cowards and Criminals worshipping Guns need to be stopped.

The Pee Party aka The Hate Party is full of Sick Wacko Psychos urinating Hate, Bigotry, Ignorance and Stupidity throughout America while worshipping their Guns..

500 Million Guns on the streets makes no one safe. Execute all the dangerous violent criminals and all sex offenders and everyone will be safer.

Posted by: mawt | January 9, 2011 6:19 PM | Report abuse

To nomansland
I don't like Sarah Palin but I HIGHLY doubt she said anything like that. Far more likely she gasped and said aloud, "That's terrible!"

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 6:18 PM | Report abuse

where were this guy's parents? This looks like parental neglect. They surely had signs that this young man was disturbed.

Posted by: msulli4 | January 9, 2011 6:18 PM | Report abuse

Judge roll's coffin should be draped with a flag---the Mexican Flag.

Posted by: dicksucker | January 9, 2011 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Blame, blame, blame!! What a waste of time.

This dastardly act was performed by a person with very serious mental problems. Mere talk radio and political rant isn't going to cause anyone to buy a gun and kill somebody else.

Assassinations have always gone on in history -- long before rights and lefts came into existence. Unfortunately, there will probably always be insane people causing horrible - and often unpreventable - events.

Posted by: babs27 | January 9, 2011 6:17 PM | Report abuse

where were this guy's parents? This looks like parental neglect. They surely had signs that this young man was disturbed.

Posted by: msulli4 | January 9, 2011 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Transylvania,

The Ft. Hood shooter is a well document Muslim jihadist.


Posted by: Condor30303 | January 9, 2011 6:17 PM | Report abuse

@nomansland
I don't like Sarah Palin but I HIGHLY doubt she said anything like that. Far more likely she gasped and said aloud, "That's terrible!"

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Bizarre messages from the Coward with Guns Murderer how? These are the same messages from Sarah Idiot Bigot, Glenn Hitler and Rush Obese Moron.

These Born Again Hate- Filled Idiot Bigots and Fairy Tale Based Frauds who incite violence and murder should be held accountable.

Mission Accomplished!!! Another Scumbag Coward with a Gun. A Scumbag Coward who shoots a woman point blank through the brain. The same should be done to this Scumbag Coward.

The National Right to Annihilate (NRA) and the Guns Owned Party (GOP) are Domestic Terrorist Organizations and they should be RICOed and shutdown but with the Guns Owned Party's support nothing will happen but the continued flooding of the streets with guns. Only Criminals and Cowards worship guns. These Psycho Cowards and Criminals worshipping Guns need to be stopped.

The Pee Party aka The Hate Party is full of Sick Wacko Psychos urinating Hate, Bigotry, Ignorance and Stupidity throughout America while worshipping their Guns..

500 Million Guns on the streets makes no one safe. Execute all the dangerous violent criminals and all sex offenders and everyone will be safer.

Posted by: mawt | January 9, 2011 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Bizarre messages from the Coward with Guns Murderer how? These are the same messages from Sarah Idiot Bigot, Glenn Hitler and Rush Obese Moron.

These Born Again Hate- Filled Idiot Bigots and Fairy Tale Based Frauds who incite violence and murder should be held accountable.

Mission Accomplished!!! Another Scumbag Coward with a Gun. A Scumbag Coward who shoots a woman point blank through the brain. The same should be done to this Scumbag Coward.

The National Right to Annihilate (NRA) and the Guns Owned Party (GOP) are Domestic Terrorist Organizations and they should be RICOed and shutdown but with the Guns Owned Party's support nothing will happen but the continued flooding of the streets with guns. Only Criminals and Cowards worship guns. These Psycho Cowards and Criminals worshipping Guns need to be stopped.

The Pee Party aka The Hate Party is full of Sick Wacko Psychos urinating Hate, Bigotry, Ignorance and Stupidity throughout America while worshipping their Guns..

500 Million Guns on the streets makes no one safe. Execute all the dangerous violent criminals and all sex offenders and everyone will be safer.

Posted by: mawt | January 9, 2011 6:15 PM | Report abuse

If he was kicked out of College for disrupting class, if the Army turned him down as unfit, shouldn't this have been reported to the Police and then they contact all Gun Dealers at least in Tucson and put him on a black list for no sale and report if a buy request is made? Is that too much? Keep your Assault Weapons sales but start a check on possible Locos!!Randall J. Marlowe, Buenos Aires

Posted by: ranjackmarlowegmailcom | January 9, 2011 6:14 PM | Report abuse

If he was kicked out of College for disrupting class, if the Army turned him down as unfit, shouldn't this have been reported to the Police and then they contact all Gun Dealers at least in Tucson and put him on a black list for no sale and report if a buy request is made? Is that too much? Keep your Assault Weapons sales but start a check on possible Locos!!Randall J. Marlowe, Buenos Aires

Posted by: ranjackmarlowegmailcom | January 9, 2011 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Note that Rep. Gifford's most recently voted in Congress against Nancy Pelosi. She was shot a couple of days later. There is your common-sense cause and left-wing effect.

Don't forget your history:

John Kennedy --- assasinated by a left wing communist sympathizer.

Robert Kennedy --- assassinated by an Arab terrorist.

Malcolm X- Assassinated by black radicals.

George Wallace --- attempted assassination by a working class tool.

The list goes on and on, all the way back to Leon Trotsky's death on the order of Vladimir Lenin and up to William Ayers' attempts to murder police officers, and beyond.

Posted by: arg2015153 | January 9, 2011 6:13 PM | Report abuse

An apparently untreated disturbed person was wound up, able to pass a background check, and for whatever reason chose Giffords.

We shouldn't be surprised.

Posted by: Abe-Froman | January 9, 2011 6:11 PM | Report abuse

correction to the typo: its Giffords

Posted by: votenoonamnesty | January 9, 2011 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Immediately following this tragedy folks began blaming conservatives and liberals before any real facts were known. Why not attribute it to Loughner being a bona fide "nut case". His instability was known before hand and could have been reported but wasn't. Authorities wouldn't have done anything until he had done something. Well, he did it big-time! Political correctness is killing this county!!

Posted by: erwestbrook | January 9, 2011 6:11 PM | Report abuse

He's basically the fort hood shooter; trapped in his own mind and not trusting anyone else enough to talk plainly about it. He's liek one of those Hutaree Militia guys, or the weather underground guys or soem of the fringe tea party guys. But you dont' have to take my word... check the running themes for similarity in sensitivity and belief.

Many of you may not like that last statement, but then, noone ever really liked Noah or Enoch either. *Shrugs*
He was looking for copycats, people of like mind, and that's what his youtube rant suggests.
That's why he ...spoke about "new currency" and brought up the gold standard to his "listeners". THAT was how he thought, in his twisted mind, he could recruit/convince others to follow along his idea of "new currency" a "new Belief system" for people to be private treasureres over.
The shooter's ramblings did have some logic running through them. The point to the youtube rants seemed to be for people to wake up and stop being spoon fed everything by the govt.

I'll let the police cheif's words say it...

"There's reason to believe this individual has a mental issue and I think that people who are unbalanced ...are especially susceptible to vitriol,"

And this from the twitter page of an old friend of his
She marks him as a lefty and says she hasn't seen him since '07, but also claims he was really into the 2012 prophecy junk... something that wasn't widely heard of until years later...

"caitieparker
@ @antderosa He was a political radical & met Giffords once... before in '07, asked her a question & he told me she was "stupid & unintelligent"

http://twitter.com/#!/caitieparker

Does make one wonder what her response to his question was and what question he asked her ;)

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Immediately following this tragedy folks began blaming conservatives and liberals before any real facts were known. Why not attribute it to Loughner being a bona fide "nut case". His instability was known before hand and could have been reported but wasn't. Authorities wouldn't have done anything until he had done something. Well, he did it big-time! Political correctness is killing this county!!

Posted by: erwestbrook | January 9, 2011 6:10 PM | Report abuse

The IRS plane guy was a left winger also but that was not reported by the press (I read his suicide note, he was NOT a libertarian), this guy is a atheist anarchist not a tea party type. Did any of you liberals look at his youtube channel? He was offended by getting a bible when he tried to join the military and is offended by money with "in God we trust" on it. Please don't ratchet up the hate people, it's not making your side look good. The press is not helping by covering up the bible and in god we trust items he mentions in his videos. Guess they are scared of a voter backlash if it's revealed how left he really is.

Posted by: JoshinFahaheel | January 9, 2011 6:10 PM | Report abuse

The comments are disheartening. All political junkies seem capable of vitriol -- the first comment in this chain was followed by the second comment reporting the first comment as abusive. Eric Erickson of redstate.com notes some of the following -- which will tell you more than the WashPost will -- Palin clearly had a number of targets in the campaign (most of which she did not achieve, and it seems clear she was talking about targeting in an election sense). Erickson notes that "Markos Moulitsas of the Daily Kos, the largest left-wing community online, put Gabrielle Giffords on a target list with a bullseye. That was clearly not based on the elections. Just as Sarah Palin removed her post, Markos has removed his.

"Another Daily Kos writer, just the other day, penned a post saying Congresswoman Giffords was dead to him."

***

"His favorite work was not a Glenn Beck book, but a staple of every left-wing bookshelf, the Communist Manifesto."

***

"Left-wing cartoonist Ted Rall’s most recent book calls for a violent response from the left against the right."

But Erickson, clearly of the right-wing persuasion, concludes that it does not do any good to call this guy left-wing or right-wing -- he is just a nut. I think everyone on this list should agree, and anyone who advocates violence against our public servants needs to be identified and reined in by us all. Perhaps readers who are passionate enough to post in response to this article may know someone who is crazy enough to do something like this. If so, don't ignore it -- please report them to the appropriate authorities.

Posted by: CRBarker3 | January 9, 2011 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Y'know, when I hear the likes of Emanuel Cleaver, usually a font of urban left vitriol, standing up with Boehner saying 'maybe we ought to tone this stuff down..' I think the political class is onto the fact that things have gone too far, and it's time ratchet down a notch. And that means all of us. Might be a good idea for the rest of us (esp we who spent a lot of time in uniform) who'd like something left for our kids.
------ Posted by: oldcorps76 | January 9, 2011 5:43 PM

Thank you oldcorps. I agree there is too much rage in the air. A big part of a representative democracy is to allow the representatives to live. If we kill many more, some wise people will choose not to enter politics, perhaps to save their families the pain of losing a parent, or just from a natural caution.

Remember we have killed presidents, and Robert F Kennedy, a presidential candidate at the time - so even running is risky - but we have killed few congressmen, senators, governors and other officials so far. I hope we keep it that way.

I like our elections. I admire free speech, and think it's one of the finest laws on earth. Perhaps some of us yelling at each other here in these "comments" can think about the future and our cherished beliefs.

Try to remember to not hate in public. At least slow down on the name-calling.

Too much death for me, my friends. Too little said about free speech and our love of our traditions.

Please, please, please.

Posted by: jimedyer | January 9, 2011 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Did not our illustrious POS tell his followers to bring a gun
Who is the violent party! - Whose comments are personal attacks-
Shultz, Doberman - Who are the American haters.

Posted by: Jakartaman | January 9, 2011 6:09 PM | Report abuse

the comment supposedly made by Ms. Gibbons father is just stupid. The tea party is nothing more than another political point of view. If he wants to blame anyone, he should blame the Internet, the fact no one was monitoring this kid, a. nd quit w/all the because we different political views, this happened. As tragic as this is, anyone at anytime, anywhere can be affected by crime. The little 9 year old girl had no political convictions and look what happened to her. all the morons that blame politics are just plain stupid. Its a tragedy, end of story. Who's minding the store w/idiot kids like this????? better question to ask....

Posted by: votenoonamnesty | January 9, 2011 6:08 PM | Report abuse

This dude Jared is a freak. He was a follower of DAVID WYNN MILLER.

This link will explain everything.

http://dwmlc.com/

and his wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wynn_Miller

Posted by: NyallsStJohnSmytheIV | January 9, 2011 6:07 PM | Report abuse

the comment supposedly made by Ms. Gibbons father is just stupid. The tea party is nothing more than another political point of view. If he wants to blame anyone, he should blame the Internet, the fact no one was monitoring this kid, a. nd quit w/all the because we different political views, this happened. As tragic as this is, anyone at anytime, anywhere can be affected by crime. The littel 9 year old girl had no political convictions and look what happened to her. all the morons that blame politics are just plain stupid. Its a tragedy, end of story. Who's minding the store w/idiot kids like this????? better question to ask....

Posted by: votenoonamnesty | January 9, 2011 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Only another paranoid, delusional psychotic would thing this had anything to do with politics. Morons. He's a garden variety nut job. Lock him up in a rubber room and move on. 300 million people in this country and you don't thing one of them is going to go magoo once in a while?

Posted by: mickeybitsko | January 9, 2011 6:07 PM | Report abuse

jiji1 wrote:

"Loved reading Karl Marx√
Doper√"
-----------------------

Sounds like Limbaugh and/or Beck right there.

Posted by: FrankIBC | January 9, 2011 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Left wing, liberal loon.

Posted by: alisonhynes | January 9, 2011 6:07 PM | Report abuse

The only responsiblity for this shooting lies with the shooter, but it will be interesting to see if it should come out that he exclusively watched MSNBC and read liberal websites how quickly the left will change their tunes and deny any responsiblity of the leftists who spew hate at a far greater rate than any conservative of any kind. Mind you I am NOT saying it would be the fault of the liberals he watched or listened to, only that that left will be completely hypocritical if it comes out (as it seems) that this sick person was much more anti-conservative and tea party than pro.

Posted by: LuKuj | January 9, 2011 6:07 PM | Report abuse

The only responsiblity for this shooting lies with the shooter, but it will be interesting to see if it should come out that he exclusively watched MSNBC and read liberal websites how quickly the left will change their tunes and deny any responsiblity of the leftists who spew hate at a far greater rate than any conservative of any kind. Mind you I am NOT saying it would be the fault of the liberals he watched or listened to, only that that left will be completely hypocritical if it comes out (as it seems) that this sick person was much more anti-conservative and tea party than pro.

Posted by: LuKuj | January 9, 2011 6:06 PM | Report abuse

If maybe half of the whiners who e mailed friends, relatives and others had directed those e mails to the appropriate school then maybe this wouldn't have happened...

If I were a college student taking aclass and someone was disruptive on a daily basis I would address it in writing to the school...if no response I would withdraw from that class in a heartbeat...

And to say you are fearful, sit near an exit with your purse but attend daily just doesn't make sense to me...

Posted by: pentagon40 | January 9, 2011 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Somebody needs to keep an eye on johninflorida. He sounds like some kind of left-wingnut that blames everybody who does not agree with him for what some deranged wacko does.

Posted by: prutah64923 | January 9, 2011 6:06 PM | Report abuse

This scum was not a Democrat, Republican, conservative or liberal. He is a NUT! A kook! A whack job! A deranged mental midget. He lives in the world of tin foil hats, voices in his head and little green men trying to reprogram his brain. What happened in Tucson was not a political statement. This was the work of a madman. Not everything in this world revolves around the political makeup world. It has been said that with the exponential growth at the same level of the population there will also be growth of deranged people. This boy is deranged and has committed a heinous act upon the population consisting of 6 acts of murder, numerous assaults and who knows what else. There is no rational reasons for his actions, just like that of a rabid animal. And just like a rabid animal, he need to be "put down". Where do I sign up to happily give him the needle?

Posted by: Renagade | January 9, 2011 6:05 PM | Report abuse

jesther wrote - "But even if this man was a liberal who was mad at Gifford for voting against Pelosi, it is the right wing rhetoric that has made killing democratic congressperson's seem like the normal thing to do if you have a grievance against them."

-----

This is a new one for me... "even if he was a liberal"... it is the fault of the conservatives.

Sounds like the schoolboy gambit "head's I win, tail's you lose". Talk about delusional thinking!!!

Posted by: Jakesterman | January 9, 2011 6:05 PM | Report abuse

jesther wrote - "But even if this man was a liberal who was mad at Gifford for voting against Pelosi, it is the right wing rhetoric that has made killing democratic congressperson's seem like the normal thing to do if you have a grievance against them."

-----

This is a new one for me... "even if he was a liberal"... it is the fault of the conservatives.

Sounds like the schoolboy gambit "head's I win, tail's you lose". Talk about delusional thinking!!!

Posted by: Jakesterman | January 9, 2011 6:05 PM | Report abuse

jesther wrote - "But even if this man was a liberal who was mad at Gifford for voting against Pelosi, it is the right wing rhetoric that has made killing democratic congressperson's seem like the normal thing to do if you have a grievance against them."

-----

This is a new one for me... "even if he was a liberal"... it is the fault of the conservatives.

Sounds like the schoolboy gambit "head's I win, tail's you lose". Talk about delusional thinking!!!

Posted by: Jakesterman | January 9, 2011 6:04 PM | Report abuse

i really don't understand why it is so important to the arizona state government that a dangerous lunatic like this be able to buy especially powerful weapons.
Posted by: comments99 | January 9, 2011 5:43 PM
*************************************************************
The Glock 19 is not an especially "powerful weapon." I have one--it's a 9 mm semi-automatic pistol. Loughner had an extended clip which allowed to load 20+ rounds at once. Doesn't matter much...very little practice will allow one to reload another clip within 5 secs. Having other armed people in the immediate area would not have prevented this tragedy..by the time they drew, aimed (to hit just Loughner), and fired, the carnage would have been over anyway. I've not timed fire rate, but I suspect I can fire 15 rounds in less than 10 sec. easily(as a non-expert) when aim is not important--it wasn't in this case. I see nothing--if one wants to live in a free society--that could prevented this. We're still finding out about Loughner, as well as who might have influenced him.

Posted by: ptgrunner | January 9, 2011 6:04 PM | Report abuse

In a country of 300 million people, we unfortunately have a lot of disturbed people. It's not a matter of if they'll go crazy, it's a matter of when. I went to school with someone who seemed totally demented and bizarre -- his family had shipped him from his country to America to get rid of him. I was happy to put 3,000 miles between him and me.

Lots of lip music gets played to improving mental health services in the US, another dozen people get shot every year and nothing changes. What is it going to take to deal with the dangerous and seriously disturbed in a real way? 100 people shot in a few minutes? A governor or a presidential candidate?

Posted by: elizestrada | January 9, 2011 6:03 PM | Report abuse

DanStlMo, why should anyone take you seriously when you quote an anonymous poster claiming to be a friend of Mr. Loughner's while describing him in terms completely contradictory to what the FBI has identified as Mr. Loughner's own posts?

Posted by: Itzajob | January 9, 2011 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Peace, y'all. Quit making this left or right. You all a destroying this great nation. Peace.

Posted by: meowomon | January 9, 2011 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Left wing nut rubbish! How about all your hatred of Palin, Bush, Chaney, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. inclduing refeences to guns and "enemies" terrorists" by Obama himslef, and the loonies of the left like Obermann? You leftist crazies invented the hatred clime we hqve today and only look at poltisizing the actions of a psycho wacko to censor any dissent aginst oyu "progressive" lefitst agenda!

Posted by: rwbentley | January 9, 2011 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Left wing nut rubbish! How about all your hatred of Palin, Bush, Chaney, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. inclduing refeences to guns and "enemies" terrorists" by Obama himslef, and the loonies of the left like Obermann? You leftist crazies invented the hatred clime we hqve today and only look at poltisizing the actions of a psycho wacko to censor any dissent aginst oyu "progressive" lefitst agenda!

Posted by: rwbentley | January 9, 2011 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Left wing nut rubbish! How about all your hatred of Palin, Bush, Chaney, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. inclduing refeences to guns and "enemies" terrorists" by Obama himslef, and the loonies of the left like Obermann? You leftist crazies invented the hatred clime we hqve today and only look at poltisizing the actions of a psycho wacko to censor any dissent aginst oyu "progressive" lefitst agenda!

Posted by: rwbentley | January 9, 2011 6:02 PM | Report abuse


See the Sarah Palin "gunsight target" map, with the crosshairs on Gifford's district, here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/sarah-palins-pac-puts-gun_n_511433.html

Her father Spencer Giffords, 75, wept when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies.

"Yeah," he told The Post. "The whole tea party."


I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us 'having a revolution every now and then is a good thing,' and the people -- we the people -- are going to have to fight back hard if we're not going to lose our country." 
~Michele Backmann

"Don’t retreat. Instead — reload!" 
~Sarah Palin

"I hope that's not where we're going, but you know if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out." 
~Sharon Angle

''Our nation was founded on violence. The option is on the table. I don't think that we should ever remove anything from the table as it relates to our liberties and our freedoms.'' 
—Tea Party-backed Texas GOP congressional candidate Stephen Broden
''I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I'm wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. ... No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out.'' 
—Glenn Beck, May 17, 2005

Posted by: losthorizon10 | January 9, 2011 6:02 PM | Report abuse

one person has one vote. that is one very insignificant means to change anything in our society.

conversely, one bullet can change things very quickly, stem the flow of hate (percieved or otherwise) from someone's throat and alter politics sufficiently for one of these 'loners' to appreciate the value of a weapon in their own hands.

gun control? LOL!! in this nation where paroled felons can latch onto illegal guns for pennies? you have to be kidding me!

as long as society has existed, there have been 'odd' people. the ones who either acted independently of the sheep herd, looked/played the part of the hunchback and even the few who conceal their 'demons' behind wealth and power.

there's no easy answers, no pat remedies, no magic juice to make everyone 'koolaid happy' i'm sorry to say.

treat this tragedy as a blip in history, as it truly is. we must forge onward, and continue the freedoms we know.

Posted by: hapticz | January 9, 2011 6:01 PM | Report abuse

LePauvrePapillon would have us believe that the distinction between socialism (or even American liberalism) and fascism is a distinction without a difference.
So, there is allegedly no important difference between a regime that invades other countries and one that doesn't. No difference between a regime that persecutes minorities and one that doesn't.
No important difference between one that suppresses labor and one that doesn't. No difference between that suppresses civil liberties and one that supports them. No difference between a regime that subverts elections and one that has legitimate elections. No difference between a regime that suppresses the arts and intellectuals and ones that don't. Ones that control the press and ones that don't.
You get the idea.
Yep. Those are distinctions without a difference.

Posted by: ablum1 | January 9, 2011 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Palin: "Gotcha!"

Sarah Palin is said to have cried out: "Gotcha!" after she had heard about the shooting of Gabrielle Gifford.

Can anybody confirm that or supply some more information please?

Posted by: nomansland | January 9, 2011 5:59 PM | Report abuse

The shooter wanted a new currency, that removed the 'in god we trust motto'. He also wanted a second constitution. One of his favorite books was the Communist Manifesto. A lot of Obama admin officials admittedly love Mao and Marx. There was a link to the 'Communist Party of America' on the ONE NATION rally. It's a leftist thing.

Burning the American flag is definitely and being a generally 20 something d-bag, is a liberal thing and we see those type of antics at G-20 meetings. He is one of those people. And I really blame the leftist sites that bash 'blue dogs' because they aren't liberal enough. There is definitely an 'anarchist and communist' wing in the Dem party. Van Jones and his 'bottom up top down' call is an example of that wing.

Posted by: jamesd1234 | January 9, 2011 5:59 PM | Report abuse

“The sleeper must awaken.
--Duke Leto Atreides”
This is a line from the movie DUNE and speaks to the belief that most people are walking around as if asleep. The line from that character, to his son Paul, was meant to caution his son not to walk around living life as if he was assleep, but to be aware of the here and now and his surrou...ndings, and in the fictional environment they lived in, that was very good advice. This, I beleive, is what Loughner means by conscious dreaming. He believes that he is somehow, more awake, than the rest of us, and through his "introduction" he means to awaken listeners. He speks of a new currency. If oen considers it, currency is what some peopel beleive in and all people believe in accordign to some. He was making a call to arms to any listeners who might see his youtube and he was inviting them into his "new currency" HIS new belief.
He felt out of control and felt that he could regain that control by surrounding himself with likeeminded people.
Contrary to popluar prejudice, the boy was not anti christian, he was anti anyoen telling him what to do. He was paranoid and l...ikely schizophrenic with monetary bits of cohesiveness.
Books like Mein Kamfe are a conservatives playbook as is the communist manifesto. At least some of the tactics... are the same. At any rate, He's taking what he's learned in those books and misapplying them to his conservative beliefs. Just as Hitler/Jim jones did w/religion. People like Hitler twisted others beliefs to suit their desires.
Hitler took government and made a religion out of it, and Jim Jones took religion and tried to gover using it.
Laughner does it w/patriotism, as does Palin, and Beck, and all the while decrying it's use to mask their own use.
He also mistakes an observation for an attack against him/accusation of a definite. He sees it that way THERFOR it MUST be that way! He refers to these possible observations as definite ad hominems. He shows flawed deductive reasoning.
He's ...also bringing up the states powers of :"nullification" in regards to apprehending current treasonous laws. A call to arms.
I finally saw the "No! I wont' trust in god" in it's proper context. The whole thing is a "Yer not the Boss o me!" Not antichristianity as some have said or anti religion or atheism as others have said. [Not saying that's been said here, just making an observation].
Kind of like what we saw with some of the more vocal Ron Paul Revolutionaries "No! I dont' have to trust in government and you can't make me!" "NO! I won't trust in this bible/God that you handed me BECAUSE it was YOU that handed it to me!"

Loghners whole rant on grammar was an attack on what he perceived as the #PC agenda as he views in his own mind. His intention is to show how "controlling the narrative" is jsut some PC plot. Mind control through grammar is just his example. He means controlling language.

Posted by: Transylvania65000 | January 9, 2011 5:59 PM | Report abuse

The heads of every educational institution should read Lucinda Roy's "No Right to Remain Silent: The Tragedy at Virginia Tech."
Educational officials must learn how to recognize the signals, and instead of merely washing their hands of the situation by dumping the mentally unstable individual, ways must be found to notify the proper agencies who can deal with such ticking time bombs before they default to killing mode.

Posted by: fionalowther | January 9, 2011 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Palin should be charged as accessory to murder. She and the Tea Baggers have a clear responsibility for this kind of violence, and they need to face criminal charges for their roles in this assasination. Even if the federal government fails to charge them they should (and will) be tried in the Court of Public Opinion and found guilty.

this is why all these wingnuts are screaming at te top of their lungs that Loughner was a leftist. It's clear to those with IQs above 33 that this is the result of the hate speech that flows from Palin's mouth every time she opens it.

Posted by: johninflorida | January 9, 2011 5:59 PM | Report abuse

It's really quite shameless how the left desperately uses the actions of a deranged psychopath to attack conservatives. There is not one scintilla of evidence that this nut job had any connection whatsoever with the Tea Party movement. Not a shred of evidence. Yet liberal talking heads are more than willing to ignore the facts in order to promote their true agenda which is to squelch conservative free speech at all costs.

Posted by: numag | January 9, 2011 5:57 PM | Report abuse

"I've never heard a Tea party person- ever- endorse violence or say anything violent."

Piffle.

Posted by: frodot | January 9, 2011 5:56 PM | Report abuse

I think people who are trying to link this nut with the tea party or Palin should do a little research. A highschool classmate of the nut said he was "quite left wing" and that his favorite reading was the communist manifesto. Besides, why would a strong supporter of the second amendment be a target of someone who supposedly would support the second amendment if he were a tea party supporter? It is craven to suggest this tragedy was caused by talk radio or Sarah Palin just as it was craven for Bill Clinton to suggest the Murrah bombing was the result of Rush Limbaugh and the militia movement after his two years in office and his declining poll numbers.

Posted by: freods | January 9, 2011 5:56 PM | Report abuse

I think people who are trying to link this nut with the tea party or Palin should do a little research. A highschool classmate of the nut said he was "quite left wing" and that his favorite reading was the communist manifesto. Besides, why would a strong supporter of the second amendment be a target of someone who supposedly would support the second amendment if he were a tea party supporter? It is craven to suggest this tragedy was caused by talk radio or Sarah Palin just as it was craven for Bill Clinton to suggest the Murrah bombing was the result of Rush Limbaugh and the militia movement after his two years in office and his declining poll numbers.

Posted by: freods | January 9, 2011 5:56 PM | Report abuse

jesther wrote - "But even if this man was a liberal who was mad at Gifford for voting against Pelosi, it is the right wing rhetoric that has made killing democratic congressperson's seem like the normal thing to do if you have a grievance against them."

-----

heck Jesther, why stop there? Why not go all the way and blame Bush?

Posted by: bolt55 | January 9, 2011 5:56 PM | Report abuse

This whole shooting thing tells me ONE thing, besides my outrage over the senseless violence. It tells me that more effort needs to be put into mental health care, in finding ways that are effective. If that care had been in place before Jared committed the murders, he might not be hearing about him in the news. How do we reach people like this BEFORE they kill ... to deal with the needs that drive the violence? How can we stop a killer before he or she kills? To find the answer is much more important than just copping out and throwing the switch on the electric chair for the Jared Loughner's of this world!

Posted by: ljmagnuson | January 9, 2011 5:56 PM | Report abuse

This clown --- white, under 22, leftist reactionary literature --- fits the profile of one of Barry Sortoro's most reliable voting blocs, but I don't beleive his political thinking (if you want to call liberal thought processes
"thinking")influenced his actions in this particular case, unless he was upset about Sorenson's hard line on illegal immigration. And by the way, it was taxpayer-funded U.S. Legal Services that overturned involuntary mental health commitment unless the patient being considered for commitment was a danger to themselves or others. When I asked what would be done with these people on the street I was told by one of their lawyers that it was "Not our problem." His words. And I wasn't speaking to Ronald Reagan.

Posted by: arg2015153 | January 9, 2011 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Left wing, liberal loon.

Posted by: alisonhynes | January 9, 2011 5:55 PM | Report abuse

schumann-bonn:

He had to wait five days until he could buy a gun after applying, and pass the FBI background check.

Posted by: vinyl1 | January 9, 2011 5:53 PM | Report abuse

So I take it liberals view Native Americans who hunt as despicable and that you are all vegetarians who don't eat meat of any sort? Did you know that Daily Kos put Giffords in a bulls eye as well? Did you know they took it down right after she was shot. Did you know if you go over to Democratic Underground right now you will find very violent statements in regards to Sarah Palin and Tea party people? Obama has made several comments that were violent and/or inappropriate. Why do you excuse him? Howard Dean and numerous other Democrats have compared members of the tea party to Nazis and made very violence inciting comments about them. I've never heard a Tea party person- ever- endorse violence or say anything violent.

Posted by: fromwi | January 9, 2011 5:53 PM | Report abuse

This scum was not a Democrat, Republican, conservative or liberal. He is a NUT! A kook! A whack job! A deranged mental midget. He lives in the world of tin foil hats, voices in his head and little green men trying to reprogram his brain. What happened in Tucson was not a political statement. This was the work of a madman. Not everything in this world revolves around the political makeup world. It has been said that with the exponential growth at the same level of the population there will also be growth of deranged people. This boy is deranged and has committed a heinous act upon the population consisting of 6 acts of murder, numerous assaults and who knows what else. There is no rational reasons for his actions, just like that of a rabid animal. And just like a rabid animal, he need to be "put down". Where do I sign up to happily give him the needle?

Posted by: Renagade | January 9, 2011 5:52 PM | Report abuse

The shooter was obviously a whack job. End of story. Blaming Palin for the actions of a mentally ill person is ridiculous. As Politico previously reported, even the WaPo used shooting imagery in relation to the Tea Party in a memo about a reporter who was going to "train her sights on the emerging Tea Party movement and developments inside the Republican Party,"...http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/0310/WaPo_amps_up_tea_party_coverage.html

Posted by: MightyMouse2 | January 9, 2011 5:50 PM | Report abuse

It seems to me that the main issue here is that this individual should not have been able to buy a gun and ammunition, based on his mental condition. This case is reminiscent of the Virginia Tech massacre. The man is disruptive in class and makes threats. When are school authorities and law enforcement ever going to take these situations seriously? They certainly would if he had ever mentioned Allah or the Koran.

Posted by: mahyms220 | January 9, 2011 5:49 PM | Report abuse

To @borntorun45 | January 9, 2011 5:30 PM : re: I don't specifically blame Palin for this guy's actions, but it was only a matter of time before someone else was killed in these hateful times.

-----


Sounds like you were just waiting around for somebody, anybody, to get killed so you could dump it on Palin.

The guy was a psycho; live with it.

Posted by: lweaton1 | January 9, 2011 5:49 PM | Report abuse

** Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
** Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
** Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
** Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
** Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

Posted by: dicksucker | January 9, 2011 5:49 PM | Report abuse

It is interesting how each party looks at the clues left by this nutcase and comes to the conclusion that he must belong to the other party. The guy was crazy, not a frustrated voter. He thought the government was controlling his mind - that is schizoid. He just hadn't had time to make his tin foil hat yet. And all the posters who say that this is the result of vitriolic rantings and then proceed to do the same thing themselves!

Posted by: Georgetowner1 | January 9, 2011 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Of course, all of those that I listed were speaking metaphorically .

Posted by: BeanerECMO | January 9, 2011 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Below are a few quotes by a Classmate and Friend of Loughners she left on Twitter

"As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."

"He was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class"

"He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in '07, asked her a question & he told me she was "stupid & unintelligent"

"(He was) More left. I haven't seen him since '07 though. He became very reclusive."

Posted by: DanStlMo | January 9, 2011 5:48 PM | Report abuse

The subtext that is being missed is that Loughner was clearly identified by others as being mentally disabled, but there was nowhere to put him. For more than 30 years, social services have been repeatedly slashed and the mentally ill mainstreamed into communities that are ill-prepared to handle them.

Had Loughner been removed to a facility where he could have been treated or medicated, this tragedy would never have happened.

Posted by: arion7 | January 9, 2011 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Michaelhunt277, if you read Mr. Lougner's posts railing against the government, for a gold-back currency, etc., it is obvious that he was influenced by right-wing talking points.

Nobody is suggesting that a mentally stable supporter of the Tea Party is all that likely to go out and shoot up the local ACLU office. But any movement whose message combines incendiary rhetoric ("don't retreat, reload", "bullets not ballots", "2nd Amendment remedies", etc.) with images of loaded weapons, is responsible for all the loonies they incite to violence.

During the recent campaign, Rep. Giffords' opponent Jesse Kelly exhorted his followers to "take her out" while brandishing a loaded M-16. The Congresswoman acknowledged that she was afraid something like this might happen as a result. And now it has.

This kind of incitement is coming exclusively, and excessively, from the Right. And the Right needs to take responsibility for tamping it down, before more people are killed.

Posted by: Itzajob | January 9, 2011 5:46 PM | Report abuse

pouran-doukht said, I don't specifically blame Palin for this guy's actions, but it was only a matter of time before someone else was killed in these hateful times. I've never seen anyone like Palin in the way that she attacks people and manages to earn a small fortune in doing so. She and her followers need to stop and take stock of their words and accusations and their effects on the American public.
-----------------------------------------
Get over it. Have you ever heard of freedom of speech? How dare you blame this wacko on conservatives. It's people like you who will use this tragedy to further your liberal, big government, big spending (and bankrupting) agenda.

Posted by: davidkarl | January 9, 2011 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Why can the Department of Homeland Security track this Guy, they have been on my Blog three times in the last two weeks and there's nothing here, but lot's of laughs... http://politicalfollies.blogspot.com

Posted by: leevandenbrink | January 9, 2011 5:44 PM | Report abuse

pouran-doukht said, I don't specifically blame Palin for this guy's actions, but it was only a matter of time before someone else was killed in these hateful times. I've never seen anyone like Palin in the way that she attacks people and manages to earn a small fortune in doing so. She and her followers need to stop and take stock of their words and accusations and their effects on the American public.
-----------------------------------------
Get over it. Have you ever heard of freedom of speech? How dare you blame this wacko on conservatives. It's people like you who will use this tragedy to further your liberal, big government, big spending (and bankrupting) agenda.

Posted by: davidkarl | January 9, 2011 5:44 PM | Report abuse

pouran-doukht said, I don't specifically blame Palin for this guy's actions, but it was only a matter of time before someone else was killed in these hateful times. I've never seen anyone like Palin in the way that she attacks people and manages to earn a small fortune in doing so. She and her followers need to stop and take stock of their words and accusations and their effects on the American public.
-----------------------------------------
Get over it. Have you ever heard of freedom of speech? How dare you blame this wacko on conservatives. It's people like you who will use this tragedy to further your liberal, big government, big spending (and bankrupting) agenda.

Posted by: davidkarl | January 9, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

i really don't understand why it is so important to the arizona state government that a dangerous lunatic like this be able to buy especially powerful weapons.

Posted by: comments99 | January 9, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

What an opportunity! Never let a crisis go unexploited, I always say..

Shot a Democrat Representative with a semiautomatic pistol? Must be a Tea Party Republican! To the FEMA re-education camp with him and the rest of you!

But wait...Giffords was a pro-gun Blue Dog, and he liked the Communist Manifesto - must be an anarcho-leftist Code Pinko type! String him up to the Liberty Tree, along with registered liberals!

Y'know, when I hear the likes of Emanuel Cleaver, usually a font of urban left vitriol, standing up with Boehner saying 'maybe we ought to tone this stuff down..' I think the political class is onto the fact that things have gone too far, and it's time ratchet down a notch. And that means all of us. Might be a good idea for the rest of us (esp we who spent a lot of time in uniform) who'd like something left for our kids.

Posted by: oldcorps76 | January 9, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone found this patsy's handler yet or has he slipped down the rabbit hole.

The communists will attempt to use this as barry X's reichstag fire. It won't work for very long.

Posted by: dicksucker | January 9, 2011 5:42 PM | Report abuse

@borntorun45 | January 9, 2011 5:30 PM : re: I don't specifically blame Palin for this guy's actions, but it was only a matter of time before someone else was killed in these hateful times. I've never seen anyone like Palin in the way that she attacks people and manages to earn a small fortune in doing so. She and her followers need to stop and take stock of their words and accusations and their effects on the American public. Really??!! How about inter alia Grayson, Kosmas, Jackson-Lee; Waters, Olbermann, Maddow, Huffington, Reid, POTUS, VPOTUS, ELF, Greenpeace, NAACP, Jackson, Sharpton, Sountern Poverty Law Center, Churchill, Garofalo, Rose Barr, Behar, Totenberg, and NPR (in general). Yep, certainly nothing inflammatory from the left - NOT.

Posted by: BeanerECMO | January 9, 2011 5:42 PM | Report abuse

So how come this individual was able to buy a semi-automatic rifle from a licensed weapons dealer?
Isn't it about time for some meaningful regulations for weapons sales?
----------------------------
Are you kidding? The Arizona republican majority just gave him this right to walk in and buy a gun and stick it in his pocket in 2010!!!!

and this posting: "Anti religious√
Loved reading Karl Marx√
Doper√
Flag burning videos√
Killed a Republican appointed Judge√
Tried to kill a "Blue Dog" / Conservative Dem Congresswoman√
Sounds like a Democrat to me, and probably a WAPO subscriber." ---------------is sick and disgusting.


Posted by: beaone | January 9, 2011 5:41 PM | Report abuse

@JIJI1 You're right. The leftists will try to whitewash his obvious connection to them, but he was obviously a retrograde "progressive." A crazy, vulgar, hate-filled, atheistic progressive. This guy could have been a regular poster on DailyKos, Democratic Underground, MyDD, Atrios, or any of the rhetorical cesspools where the left-wing crazies congregate.

Posted by: bonzai90210 | January 9, 2011 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Something about the entire incident stinks.

http://911essentials.com

Posted by: bee3 | January 9, 2011 5:41 PM | Report abuse

this guy is obviously psychotic. Schizophrenia often develops in late teens and early 20's. No surprise there.

His politics do seem to be libertarian now even if he was a liberal when sane, which is sort of an interesting thing to take note of.

But even if this man was a liberal who was mad at Gifford for voting against Pelosi, it is the right wing rhetoric that has made killing democratic congressperson's seem like the normal thing to do if you have a grievance against them.

Posted by: jesther | January 9, 2011 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin - Joe McCarthy Two people who smoke the attention crack pipe by selling hate

Posted by: johnkomalley | January 9, 2011 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Inconvenient reality check for all those leftists trying to link the Marxist Jared Laughner with anyone or anything libertarian or conservative:

If Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto are among your favorite books, you are a Marxist. You are certainly not a freedom-loving libertarian or conservative.

Hitler was a Marxist. NAZI is an acronym that stands for National Socialist German Workers Party. Lenin was a Marxist as was Stalin as was Mao as was Obama, Sr. Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez and Clueless Comrade Barry - sharing the dream of his father - are all Marxists.

You can split hairs over the supposed dissimilarities between Marxism, socialism, fascism and communism but they are all distinctions without a difference.

In the end, they are all variations of the Marxist concept of collective ownership and all circumvent and ultimately destroy the natural rights of individuals to own property and make their own financial and even personal decisions.

And they never stop there.

Whether it’s a case of power corrupting or simply those in power doing what is required to maintain their oligarchies, Marxists always find it necessary to grant ever greater powers to the State. It is no mere coincidence that the greatest mass murderers in history, Hitler (20 million), Lenin and Stalin (62 million), and Mao (76 million), have all been Marxists.

So is it really all that surprising that the left would immediately and without the slightest hesitation attempt to exploit the violence perpetrated by one of its own for political advantage?

The left has no conscience. They only have a goal. To them, their end justifies all means. They have no need for facts or logic or fairness. They have their illusions. They have their “conscious dreams” and that is all they need to justify anything and everything.
Every article, every blog, every opinion piece that attempts to link the actions of the Marxist Jared Laughner with any libertarian or conservative public figure underscores this point over and over again.

Further, you don’t see legions of conservative bloggers blaming this Marxist individual’s actions on any prominent left wing public figures nor to you hear them using this as an excuse to stifle the free expression of ideas – even the failed fantasy of socialism. Fascist and fascism are, after all, derived from the Italian word “Fascisti” which the socialist Mussolini coined to moniker his brand of Marxism. It’s the left, not the right, that fuels the fires of fascist rage.

Posted by: LePauvrePapillon | January 9, 2011 5:36 PM | Report abuse

he met Giffords in 2007 and asked her a couple questions
..don't know what they were about...
but he came away with the conclusion that she was unintelligent and didn't know what she was talking about

so he had previous contact years before.

i think the guy lived in a world of his own making and didn't lean towards the tea party, republican, democrat, or independent.

Not to knock the disease, but I bet he has ADDH ---that comes with outbursts and unruliness as he did in class.
Probably a bit schizophrenic too.

Posted by: TheBabeNemo | January 9, 2011 5:36 PM | Report abuse

It's pretty obvious that government has yet to take this issue in hand and deal with it. Combined with a lack of gun control in a violence-happy society, the shootout hardly seems surprising.

Allowing seriously mentally ill young men to flounder without help is cruel. Allowing them to simultaneously obtain guns is dangerous and deadly.

Once again the road leads to government failure to control guns and failure to supervise dangerous young men who already have them.

Americans need to ask more of their politicians. Protecting public safety is not too much to ask.

Posted by: contactklc | January 9, 2011 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Then why in God's name didn't someone report him to the proper authorities for a watch list?

Posted by: beaone | January 9, 2011 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Then why in God's name didn't someone report him to the proper authorities for a watch list?

Posted by: beaone | January 9, 2011 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Babynemo wrote: i wonder if he did meth...

arizona is meth capital of the USA.

Meth gives a "conquer the world" euphoria. Maybe this wacko thought he could do anything. The power trip thing.

I say death penalty. No doubt about it.
Cold blooded, premeditated murder."

____________________________________________________

Actually, Missouri is the meth capital of the country. There is no doubt that meth is a terrible thing, but most meth addicts never commit acts of violence. This man had a mental illness that drove him over the edge. I seriously doubt it was meth.

Posted by: liberalsareblind | January 9, 2011 5:34 PM | Report abuse

So how come this individual was able to buy a semi-automatic rifle from a licensed weapons dealer?
Isn't it about time for some meaningful regulations for weapons sales?

Posted by: schumann-bonn | January 9, 2011 5:33 PM | Report abuse

pouran-doukht said: "Wasn't it president obama who said thus: "if they bring a knive to the fight, we'll bring guns..."

Completely out of context, but ok. The President was speaking metaphorically, and quoting a movie ("Al Capone") at the time...

And to my knowledge, the President has never displayed an actual weapon, nor has he attempted to demostrate his self-described hunting/fishing skills by filming himself firing at animals in the wild or beating fish to death in a boat(like Palin), nor has he incited people to rage against an opponent by calling him names, nor has he posted cross-hair targets over the locations of opponents nor listed those opponents names. His speech is not hate-filled, and he presents ideas, not insults.

I don't specifically blame Palin for this guy's actions, but it was only a matter of time before someone else was killed in these hateful times. I've never seen anyone like Palin in the way that she attacks people and manages to earn a small fortune in doing so. She and her followers need to stop and take stock of their words and accusations and their effects on the American public.

Posted by: borntorun45 | January 9, 2011 5:30 PM | Report abuse

i wonder if he did meth...

arizona is meth capital of the USA.

Meth gives a "conquer the world" euphoria. Maybe this wacko thought he could do anything. The power trip thing.

I say death penalty. No doubt about it.
Cold blooded, premeditated murder.

Posted by: TheBabeNemo | January 9, 2011 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Jiji1's comment is no more offensive than Deinan's is about the Tea Party. The fact that WaPo and other left leaning media have tried so hard to find a link between a delusional young man and the Tea Party speaks for itself. Both sides' rhetoric gets heated at times but history is rife with heated debate without linkage to delusional murderers.

Posted by: michaelhunt277 | January 9, 2011 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Homeland Security should hire Lynda Sorenson!

Posted by: dottie_b | January 9, 2011 5:28 PM | Report abuse

I don't know what political affiliation this murdering psychotic had.

I do know his antigovernment rhetoric on Youtube is focused directly on the 10th amendment, and that's not one that seems to garner much interest except for the libertarian and Tea Party crowd.

Hence, while I wouldn't be labeling him as any part of the political spectrum yet, there's certainly indications he'd fall into one.

Posted by: hsailor | January 9, 2011 5:28 PM | Report abuse

"People like this used to be involuntarily committed. I believes liberals changed that sometime ago."
******
Actually it was conservatives who spent decades successfully dismantling mental health services in the US. Prisons have become the de-facto mental health facilities of the country which is why we have a reactive and not proactive approach to mental health.

Posted by: squier13 | January 9, 2011 5:28 PM | Report abuse

this guy probably had a psychotic break - he is the right age for that sort of thing. people should stop trying to put political labels on him because they don't apply. we also should stop blaming one side or the other for this - everyone is responsible for the system we have that allows stuff like this to happen. everyone ought to calm down and stop propagating inflammatory sentiment.

Posted by: johnhunsaker4 | January 9, 2011 5:27 PM | Report abuse

well thank goodness his inalienable right to purchase a semiautomatic weapon and carry it around in public wasn't infringed.

Posted by: stoat1 | January 9, 2011 5:25 PM | Report abuse

"until he does something bad, you can't do anything"

What does this mean? Allegedly he was disruptive, which is something bad, but it says here he was not bad.

Is she complaining about Jared or a black man?

Posted by: blasmaic | January 9, 2011 5:22 PM | Report abuse

cleancut77 - Actually it was Ronald Reagan.

Posted by: deinan | January 9, 2011 5:21 PM | Report abuse

People like this used to be involuntarily committed. I believes liberals changed that sometime ago. It needs to be revisited.

Posted by: cleancut77 | January 9, 2011 5:18 PM | Report abuse

The group that DHS is investigating as having a possible connection to the terrorist Jare Loughner is called the American Renaissance group.

American Renaissance is regularly supported by the Stormfront organization led by former American Nazi Party's Don Black, and the American Renaissance leader appears on Don Black son and co-leader in Stormfront Derek Black to promote the American Renaissance group. In 2010, American Renaissance sought to have BNP's Nick Griffin speak who has called the Holocaust the "Holohoax."

On February 4-6, the American Renaissance group plans a national meeting in Charlotte, North Carolina because a year ago DC area hotels would not hold their conference.

R.E.A.L. has reported on this at:
http://www.realcourage.org/2011/01/amren-nc/

Posted by: responsiblepublic | January 9, 2011 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Jiji1's comment is weird and a bit scary, not unlike Lynda's description of Loughner on day one of their math class. How far will Jiji1 go on day two?

Posted by: JPMinNC | January 9, 2011 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Oh oh, where are all the hyperventilating political profiteering we've been reading on these sights?

The leftist and their media cohorts should be ashamed of themselves for trying to libel and slander the Tea Party American voters -- ONCE AGAIN -- with this troubled schizophrenic man's actions.

Wasn't it president obama who said thus: "if they bring a knive to the fight, we'll bring guns," and wasn't it nancy pelosi saying thus: ""If people are ripping your face off, you have to rip their faces off"?

Shame on leftists; they have no ethical decency.

Posted by: pouran-doukht | January 9, 2011 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Anti-government = Tea party
Gold Standard = Beck, Ron Paul
Reading Ayn Rand = Libertarian

Sounds like a libertarian Tea Partier to me.

Posted by: deinan | January 9, 2011 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Jared was a Kerry/Edwards supporter.

Go to twitter and look up his high school friend CaitieParker

The posts from yesterday are quite telling.

Posted by: Andy13 | January 9, 2011 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Troll. ignore.

Posted by: moiraeve1 | January 9, 2011 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Jiji1, I consider your comment abusive and I have reported you.

Posted by: moiraeve1 | January 9, 2011 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Anti religious√
Loved reading Karl Marx√
Doper√
Flag burning videos√
Killed a Republican appointed Judge√
Tried to kill a "Blue Dog" / Conservative Dem Congresswoman√

Sounds like a Democrat to me, and probably a WAPO subscriber.

Posted by: jiji1 | January 9, 2011 4:46 PM | Report abuse

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