Rove Didn't Inhale

I'm glad today wasn't a nunce kind of a day on the Achenblog. The Rove version of "I didn't inhale"! What an apt parallel you have drawn!

That's right: who cares about the cover-up of some third-string burglary at Watergate when there are so many other bad decisions about the Vietnam War coming out of the Nixon White House?

If Rove knows how to Svengali/Professor Higgins one GW Bush into PotUS, he clearly knows a LOT.

To your point last point, Joel, it really dosen't look like a lot of beans. Olbermann needs press ever since he left ESPN.

So now bubba's "I didn't inhale" is all of the sudden wrong? You can't have it both ways. If Rove was wrong, then so was bubba. Are you going to jump his case now?

I love Bubba to death, but I'm not going to kid myself: he SO inhaled.

Seems to me it only looks like a small hill of beans to you. But from the vantage point of the field agent assets who may have been compromised on WMDs and/or counter-terrorism measures, I'm thinking it may look awfully different. It is easy to be cavelier about the ramifications of a politically motivated leak from a Washington desk job, but a lot of those assets work in positions where even the slightest move on their parts can result in their death, and the death of family and friends in retribution. It was not just Amb. Wilson and his wife who were affected by Mr. Rove's conduct (and whomever else may have been involved in this that we don't yet know....), it was every undercover agent and asset with whom she had been working, every ongoing field operation on WMDs and counterterrorism that she was working at the time of her exposure, every potential prosecution, all evidence that may have been destroyed or moved or...well, you get the picture. Having worked in law enforcement, I can tell you that any exposure of a covert asset is an enormous blow. Some investigations, especially those into issues that require deep cover like terrorism or the mob, as examples, can take years to bear any fruit. All of that blown away for political retribution. And the worst part of it is that because the general public, including you and most of your readers, will never have the security clearance to even know how much damage this did to our nation's security, how many lives were lost, how many new stars on the wall in Quantico were added, all because Mr. Rove opened his yap. Sure doesn't seem like sucha small hill of beans from that end of things, now does it?

"Rove didn't inhale.", that's great.
Good to see that excess lobster consumption didn't affect your funny bone, Joel...

Uh, oh.
Is that a RoveStorm coming?

Fasten your seatbelts, put your seats and tray tables in their upright and locked positions, and buckle your chin straps.

Engine room, make ready to dumo the warp core, jettison the nacelles and get away with the main section. Don't forget to warm up all the escape pods.

bc

Nice to have you back. Very apt analogy, however, Clinton fudging a college indiscretion is a bit different from an advisor to a sitting President revealing classified information for political purposes.

I think another RoveStorm is brewing . . .

bc, you beat me to it. (The part about the tray tables was a nice touch.)

Well, this specific thing may be a few beans, but it seems to me it's indicative of a larger attitude of arrogance in the White House (who cares about the ramifications, it serves our purpose. Who questions the intelligence, it serves our purpose and says what we want to hear). It's sleazy (as was Bill Clinton's behavior--I'll admit even thought I'm a lefty) and just makes me wonder what else is buried there.

I think the Watergate analogy is apt...it's like pulling on a thread, what else is going to unravel as you pull on it more?

//"at the moment it still looks to me like just four or five beans"//

Maybe. But use your imagination -- these may just be the magic beans.

Rove not only lied, he lied consistently, knowingly, and over a considerable period of time. And as for whether he knew that Plame was undercover-- puhleese...

ReddHedd is right on target. Rove naming Amb. Wilson's wife as CIA affected every single mission she was part of. Not to mention outing her as a CIA operative also manages to out every person she came in contact with as potential CIA operatives. The question is, how many innocents have been killed by foreign governments simply because they came "in contact" with Amb. Wilson's wife?
Haven't we all watched enough Mission Impossible, Alias, and read enough Tom Clancy to be able to realize the implications.

Oh yeah, the other thing is--how does W deal with this if it becomes more clear that Rove is *the* leaker? They have said all along that if the leaker is from inside the WH that person will be out. But we all know that W does not abandon his friends.

It'll be interesting to see the tapdancing on this one (okay, and I'll admit to experiencing schadenfreude on this one)!

ReddHedd -- I think you mean Langley with the stars on the wall, not Quantico?

Why Does Rove Still Have His Security Clearance?

If Karl were anyone else, it would have been taken away the second the WH security office learned about his role in the Plame matter, and he would have been out the door.

Has he even been questioned about it? If so -- he probably was -- wonder what he said? Was he under oath?

There may be other crimes here. Lying to the Grand Jury is just one of them. Isn't it time our leaders and the corporate media started asking these questions, too?

Rove Should Lose His Clearance

You don't have be indicted to lose your clearance.

Anyone who presents a threat of unauthorized release of classified materials loses his clearance. There's plenty of cause to believe that in Rove's case. If I were in the WH security office, I would be demanding Rove's keys, right now.

In fact, if the security office doesn't make that demand, they should be investigated. Anybody in the FBI or SS reading this, please pick up the phone and call your colleagues at 1600 Penn. Remind them to look in the procedures manual.

Has The WH Security Office Sought Guidance on This?

The head of that office must be sweating bricks right now. That administrator should have gotten an opinion from the General Counsel's office back in July 2003. I'd love to read it.

If there is no such opinion letter saying it's okay to keep Karl on, I think it unlikely that the officer who demands Karl's keys would be fired. Think about it. In fact, under these circumstances, it may be mandatory to lift Rove's clearance.

I'm sure the procedures book calls for suspension if it is learned that a WH employee has improperly divulged classified information.

If this issue gets raised by someone in a position of visibility, the White House will have to reveal what efforts have been taken, if any, to guard against further breaches of security.

Glad you're back Achenbach, hope you can live out the vacation relaxation as long as the Beltway permits. You jumped right into the loaded Rove loose-lips-sink-ships story. Thanks for that.

ReddHedd pretty much nailed it. It's reassuring that law enforcement is composed of sharp and caring public citizens like him (or her).

I doubt that Rovestorm would be more hectic this time around, simply because there is little justification to come to his Karl's defense. At the same time, his legal troubles may not be that serious thanks to the "I didn't inhale" defense. But it remains to be seen and depends on US Atty. Patrick Fitzgerald who's leading the investigation whether to proesecute him to the full extent of the law.

In addition to national security, the integrity and ethical fortitude of the White House has been compromised. If President Bush keeps Rove around as Deputy Chief of Staff, then that Executive Moral Compass ain't worth the lanyard it dangles from.

I was enjoying the day a LOT more when the biggest question was "what to do with the gallons of leftover Costco mustard?" not "how is a bonafide threat to national security the most influential individual in the world not named George or Dick."

So is it to be constitutional government, or make it up as you go?

Ooops -- my bad. I did mean Langley. I should know better than to type and send when I'm peeved. Thanks for the correction -- appreciate it!

Satellite images of a force-5 RoveStorm just came in, and it looks like the eye may pass directly over the Blogosphere. Residents are being warned to evacuate to higher ground, such as a posting on the use of semicolons.

If the leaker had described her as the wife of a humor columnist for a large washington newspaper who also used to run an invitational weekly contest exhibiting humor from readers of said paper and in addition is alleged to be close friends with another humor columnist well known for having had a television show loosely based on his life, would he have been any less culpable than if he had actually spelled the name and referenced the Wikipedia definition for him?

From what we've read already, Rove as good as gave the name out.

wow. i've never seen TSA-15 quite so agitated. i especially like that people have managed to work in a sly reference to the style invitational.

the weirdest part of all of this is the sketchiness of rove's lawyer, who appears to be not only evil, but stupid. (unlike rove himself)

regardless, is bubba had a guy working in the white house who had outed a covert agent for political payback, you can be sure the MSM wouldn't rest until they had his/her hide nailed to a wall.

and i have to agree with reddhedd: i'm not sure most people appreciate exactly how low a blow this way. this wasn't spreading a nasty rumor about someone's sex life. this wasn't telling the IRS to run an audit of the person. this was an action which could result in people being killed. i heard a journalist defend judy miller the other day by saying that "well, at least no one has died from this". how do we know that? once an agent's cover is blown, foreign intelligence services could roll up a bunch of people quickly and the american media would have no clue it's going on. say what you will about the Iraq war: at least the bushies *thought* things would work out great. in this case, rove knew exactly how much damage he was going to cause and did it anyway. ignorance of the law isn't an excuse, right?

Something sinister within W's administration? I can't believe it. Looks like they'll be wrapping up in the flag again, or invoking 9/11. After all, it's always worked in the past.

I predict that in a day or two all this will be forgotten just like "Major League A$$hole, go f*** youself, and Iraqi WMD's. I think this Bush Admin. is just so slimy nothing sticks to them. They seem to get away with everything.

Ignorance of the law has never been an excuse for anyone that I've sent to the penitentiary from the real world. Shouldn't be an excuse for anyone from the White House, either, no matter how high their friendship extends. Blowing cover for a single agent can result in hundreds of other exposures -- I'm talking in terms of life or death exposures in the world in which Plame was working, too, since terrorists and illicit arms dealers aren't exactly the forgiving types, especially when you have assets who is a middle east specialist as she seems to have had since her cover was a Saudi-connected company. (And how angry am I that I know that just from reading newspapers?) No one outside of Plame's unit in the CIA and the NSA/White House will ever know how much damage this did -- because they do NOT talk about this sort of thing. One thing is for sure, though: all those agents working in her unit now know that Rove is a danger to secrecy and I, too, am wondering if he has had his clearance pulled as a result of the reporting over the last week. And if not, why not? Regular people lose clearance for much less in terms of conduct. Why not ask that at the next press gaggle? (Not that there will be any on point response, but it is worth asking anyway.)

seems a better comparison to clinton viz rove/plame is this is rove saying "it depends on what the meaning of is is."

Notepersonal: Right on. They'd be starting impeach hearings this afternoon if Clinton pulled this crap. This guy is slimier (and about as dumb) as Reagan. Nothing stuck to that scuzzball either.

What if Rove had said, "She's the owner of Rudolph the talking pale-green ostrich?" Is there any way to miscontrue what he said? Who else, in the literal reading of his alleged words -- "wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd [weapons of mass destruction] issues who authorized the trip" -- could it be? No one. The only question then would be whether Rove knew that "wilson's wife" was covert at the agency. By reason of caution, wouldn't he have to assume that is the case?

Ugh.

Perhaps Rove was not intentionally outing Ms. Plame. Perhaps he had "double super secret slam dunk" intelligence information to suggest that Amb. Wilson had more than one wife! He didn't say which wife did he? You must admit the WH has believed some pretty weird stuff in the last five years.

"double super secret slam dunk." ha! ha! More than one wife! Perfect.

kurosawaguy: "double super secret slam dunk." ha! ha! More than one wife! Perfect.

sorry about that kurosawaguy, I tried to quote you but it wound up in the "Name" field. This commenting is fun, but if you get carried away it can get ugly.

Again. apologies.

President Bush said he would get to the bottom of this, and he did eventually even if the reporter had to go to jail to protect Rove, I bet if it's pushed he (Rove) will get a Presidential pardon. Splitting hairs, he mever used her name, just said it was Ambassador Wilson's wife, well gee let's see who could that be? Where is the real public outer Bob Novak? He seems to be the one who printed her name in the paper if I can think back that far. Does he and Rove get a free pass, do not pass go, do not collect 200.......

Yeah, Rove didn't inhale and lying over sexual improprieties is a more impeachable offense than lying to invade another country! I still don't get why the government didn't bail Enron out.

Maybe I'm seriously out of the loop over here, but isnt not naming someone but pointing out whose wife they are basically the same thing? Except for Gene Weingarten? Seriously, this is a legit question.

And that was a wicked ugly sentence; I'm just going to admit that in case any a y'all are over their snorting about my illiteracy..;)

If Rove gets away with this, then I will be ashamed to call myself an American.

average joe:

I think your comment just officially ushered in the RoveStorm.

my employer tried to fire me for telling one of my subordinates that her son would be in danger of getting killed for a "bad drug deal." My employer accused me of disclosing "sensitive law enforcement" but not classified information. What I actually did was to prevent the killing of the son of one of my employees. What Mr. Rove allegedly did not only deserves that he be fired but also that he be federally indicted for criminal misconduct. It appears as if you are a low level federal employee, you get the maximum but if you are a higher up in the administration, at the most, you only get a slap on the hand.

obviously the legals have stepped in...Press Sec won't talk and the splitting of legal hairs has begun. Most of the country will probably shrug their shoulders and go 'it's washington' since its not as juicy gossip as oral sex. Its worse...far worse...watergate worse...but since no sex no whoopee.

Weee! The RoveStorm is here! When you wake up, all the posts will appear in Technicolor and you'll be surrounded by munchkins!

So about semicolons and proper usage...

Haha! Did you know that Toto made $75 a week more than the Munchkin people? Yup. $125 v. $50. That just reinforces that "short people got no reason to live" thing.

We could always go hide under Joel's Costco column. There's bound to be plenty of bread and TP.

Sara,
First thing you got to do is march right down to the doc and get yourself a semicolonoscopy....

But isn't part of the bigger picture how long Dubya has known that Rove was the senior White House official who leaked the information and Dubya continued to allow a federal prosecutor to convene a grand jury and spend tax dollars on an investigation that the White House already had the answers to?

Dubya is just as culpable for this two-year cover-up as Rove is...

This administration is beyond slimy. They've thought themselves above the law since taking the election in 2000.

On the whole, I could really careless whether or not Clinton put a cigar up Monica's hoo-hoo. Not my business...

It is all of our business when Dubya's administration lies day after day and innocent Americans (and Iraqis and Britons and...) DIE day after day.

To take average joe's comment one step further, I've been ashamed to call myself an American since the Supreme Court put that moron in office.

kurosawaguy,

I think I'll pass because, well, it doesn't sound fun and retract my previous conversation starting statement. Thanks though.

The slimy administration won't get away with this, because we stand for truth, justice and the american way. This is going to be a dilly.

breaking news: the category five rovestorm has claimed it's first victime: america's press secretary.

mr. mcclellan was found, babbling incoherently, in a small alley near the philipine embassy. a note on his person indicated that he would be "happy to talk" once the "investigation was over". another notebook contained the apocryphal sentence, "all work and no play makes scotty a dull boy" written 4356 times.

the white house has not commented at this time.

hlcf has it right. This is more like Clintonian parsing (what the definition of is is) than Clintonian fudging (didn't inhale).

But maybe we should give Rove the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he truly believed Wilson to be a polygamist, and therefore didn't think that "Wilson's wife" referred to a singularly identifiable person.

As far as Rove "not actively trying to push the information into the public realm," give me a break. He fed the info to three reporters (okay, two reporters and one GOP columnist) that we know of. I'd even lay odds that he told Novak that both the Times and Newsweek had the info and so he'd better hurry if he wanted it to be exclusive.

nothing hurts worse than when someone who owns the ap stylebook sees poor grammar, badly spelled words and an overall lack of effort, in one's own post.

my apologies for the mistakes enshrined above. forever. time to go eat some more beans.

I could be wrong about this, but is saying that Wilson's "wife" at the CIA arranged the trip the same as outing his wife as a covert agent? Even if Rove said that she was a covert agent, (which isn't clear) is it clear that everyone knew Wilson's wife was named Valerie Plame? Just a question, really, but she doesn't share the same last name and so it doesn't seem obvious that one could connect the dots without a name...

Outing a covert CIA Agent is a treasonous offence.

Let's watch the spinning, twisting, and contortions from the "honest and dignified" Bush White House as it tries to sweep treason under the rug.

If Bush were smart he'd serve up a big hot steaming platter of Karl Rove and storm about the nation talking of dignity and honesty and American sacrifice for world freedom...

But I think instead he'll just stay on the Soc Sec. message.

Have we no shame?

On the subject of grammar:

name (vt) -- 1: to give a name to : CALL 2. a: to mention or identify by name b: to accuse by name 5: to mention explicitly : SPECIFY

Ah, semicolons. Reminds me of one reason I prefer this blog to the Post's chats. I once submitted a comment to a chat, and the chat's producer (not Chatwoman, I'm sure) changed my semicolon into one of those winky emoticons. Or maybe it was a close paren that got turned into an emoticon? I can't quite remember the details. I do know that I came out looking like a bit of a nitwit.

If it helps Karl Rove go down then I think this adds up to about 6 or 7 beans.

goodmorninghouston.blogspot.com

What Rove allegedly did is appalling. He should be asked to resign. But, of course, W never asks ANYONE to resign.

Short answer:

Yes, it matters. This isn't about a decision that may or may not have been right, it's about a concerted effort to discredit factfinders who were challenging the truth of W's case for war.

In other words, it's about
(1) evidence being fixed around a policy, and
(2) the CIA doing better work than the WH but still taking the blame to protect W's chickenhawk ass.

What don't you get about that?

couple good points on here. Rove didn't say the name. What he did was say it was Amb Wilson's wife. Now, the press takes a beating for sure, but in the age of the internet, even reporters are smart enough to find out exactly who Joe Wilson is married to (nudge and a wink).

However, it is not a matter of humor regarding the danger that Ms. Plame's outing posed to her assets. This has been well elaborated on and needs no further asssistance from me.

The Security Clearance deal is huge. People get their clearances dumped for getting a DUI, a much lesser offense than comprimising a covert operative. Rove should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, including a permanent revocation of his clearance, rendering him useless in high level DC politics.

Contrition??? Abesent in this town.

That will be the day when W demands Roves resignation. Who do you think is running this show anyway?

Karl Rove: Lying or Fudging?
http://blog.nodvin.net/?p=120

ThinkProgress and Reuters have outlined the method used by Rove to attempt to conceal his involvement in outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame.

It was the same method that DID NOT work for Bill Clinton in trying to conceal his sexual affair with Monica Lewinsky. The method could be called "wordsmithing and the careful-parsing of statements" or it could be called "LYING". Bill Clinton was impeached and lost his law license for a similar offense. What will happen to Karl Rove?
Reuters states:
"Rove has carefully chosen his words when questioned about the leak. "I didn't know her name. I didn't leak her name," he told CNN last year when asked if he had had anything to do with it."

OK. And Bill Clinton said: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky."

Bill Clinton chose his words carefully. To Clinton at the time the words "sexual relations" did not include the act of oral sex, which he had had with Lewinsky. Therefore in Clinton's mind he was telling the truth. To the rest of us, it was a big fat lie.

Rove's alibi was: "I didn't know her name and didn't leak her name." [CNN, 8/31/04]

In fact from reporter Matt Cooper's now released private e-mails we see that Karl Rove may not have actually leaked Valarie Plame's name but the information that the wife of Joe Wilson worked at the CIA.

OK. He may not have leaked her name but he leaked that fact that Joe Wilson's wife was a CIA operative.

Therefore in Rove's mind he was telling the truth. To the rest of us, it IS a big fat lie.

But ThinkProgress concludes that Rove did not choose his words carefully enough. Rove was asked by ABC "Did you have any knowledge or did you leak the name of the CIA agent to the press?" Rove's protestations to the press (and perhaps to the Grand Jury?) that he "didn't leak her name" may have been technically correct but when he answered "No" to ABC News producer Andrea Owen's question as to whether he had "any knowledge", Rove was clearly lying.

To Curious:
As marriage certificates are public documents, naming her as Wilson's wife is tantamount to giving her name. Anyone can go and find out her name from that info. Any investigative journalist worth his or her salt (and I'm not claiming Bob Novak is when he just gets info dumped in his lap since he is a friend of all Republican causes everywhere) could get the info in less than a day. So yes, stating that his wife is a CIA agent and what she does is EXACTLY like naming her by name.

//Even if Rove said that she was a covert agent, (which isn't clear) is it clear that everyone knew Wilson's wife was named Valerie Plame?//

Marriage licenses are public documents. He could have also told Cooper "you know that woman who lives with Wilson... she's CIA" and yes, that would have been an outing. He identified her. Identification does not require a name, just singularly identifiable information.

Re: Plame Name-Game

"The president of the the United States is a liar." Now, granted, I never said G.W. Bush is a liar, I merely said "the president of the the United States"...

Curious: Whether Rove knew or not Plame was covert, both Cooper and Novak printed her name and said she was Wilson's wife. It would not be that difficult for good reporters to double check with other sources to find out the name of Wilson's wife and her employer.

The outing wasn't a big deal until the Justice Deparment got involved a few months later.

"...but is saying that Wilson's "wife" at the CIA arranged the trip the same as outing his wife as a covert agent?"

Curious, that's a good technical point, and the one Rove's legal defense is going to turn on. It's hard to prove Rove's criminal intent based on the correspondence with Cooper alone. However, if Rove were Bob Novak's source and Judith Miller's, which seems all but certain, any patterns in the statements that he made to other reporters can be used to prove that he knew exactly what he was doing. He is hardly out of the woods yet.

Miller should reveal her source, because she is not above the law. But I understand perfectly well if she believes that serving jail time is one way of doing penance for her hard-hitting work on whether Iraq had WMDs in the run-up to the war, which aided and abetted the administration's campaign of deception before the invasion. NYT: "All the News that's Fit to Print and Apologize for Later."

Please excuse the minor tangent, but the tragic coincidence (as opposed to 'irony') of Miller's situation is a godsend for the Bush Administration. Headline: "Cowed Cadillac of Liberal Elite Media plays along with WMD lies, Now Protects National Security Liability Karl Rove."

So how many deals with the Devil did Novak sign to somehow stay on the periphery of all of this? Did Rove tell Cooper, who whispered to Miller, who slid a note to Novak who spilled the four or five beans?

What is that line...

Mr Rove, don't look know, but your pants are on fire!

Mark my word, Hillary will end up apologizing for calling Bush Alfred E. Newman and Rove will get of scoot free. Liberal need to learn to play hardball.

Leftout - Novak made some kind of a deal with investigators, and he is refusing to comment on it. The lead prosecutor is vigilant and thorough, so it is safe to assume that he got what he wanted, which is probably no less than the identity of the leaker.

There was a very good article here at the Washington Post (which I can't find now) probably about 9 months ago, explaining that everyone knew that Valerie Plame/Wilson was the wife of Ambassador Wilson, but not that she worked for the CIA. Publicly, she worked for some consulting firm (a CIA cover company).

Is there someone monitoring this blog, that can put that article back up?

could it be that bush is like that
sat night live skit where reagan
was dopey in public but the real
power off stage?...is hilary accurate
with the neuman comments?...karl rove
seems to be a genuine political creature
...so it is likely he is not incapable
of sliding around ethics to score some
point................... it does become
numbing to observe how the bush bunch
plays with facts or ethics and seems to
not yet been nailed...this is wearisome.

Peter--here, here re: Miller's past sins. I find it ironic that she is paying time to protect a source for a story she did not write, rather than for being a HUGE contributor to the brainwashing of the public that Iraq had WMDs. I'm guessing Rove played a big role as a 'source' for her articles that were basically a public relations tool for the buildup to war.

I think this all just proves how wacky the whole world of classified info really is.

Are we assuming because Rove hasn't denied that he knew her status that he did? I wouldn't be surprised if he had no idea what he was doing. (Insert your own witty comment about the rest of the White House here.) The WH deals with overt intel officers all the time, and maybe, just maybe, they didn't know that Plame was covert.

And anyone who thinks he'll lose a clearance clearly hasn't taken the required Washington cynicism pill. Keep dreaming.

Bubba SO inhaled, and so what? Who didn't back then? Lefties need to take a chill on that.

Oh, but W's missing YEAR --- YEAR!!!!! of his life --- is okay, 'cause he found Jay-sus! Well, so did Carla Faye Tucker, and it didn't do HER much good, did it?

I agree with lamb, maybe the WH didn't know Plame was covert.Just like Kenneth Ley didn't know the books were being cooked at ENRON.

Everybody seems to have forgotten two key points:

1) the leak was made to six different reporters (OK, five plus Novak), not just the three in question. Never mind parsing what Rove said; this was part of pattern. That's what's going to hang the SOBs. (The others didn't write stories, as Miller didn't.)

2) There were TWO leakers, Rove plus X (presumably Libby). We now know what Rover said to Cooper. Rove was in a hurry and leaving town. One can envision Cooper calling his office back, getting Libby (or whomever) and saying, "Hey, Karl just told me Wilson's wife works for the CIA--but he forgot to tell me her name. What is it?" (Any good reporter--and Cooper is--would have had to make this follow-up call.) So Leaker #2 says, "Her name is Valerie Plame."
The circle is completed. X says she's a spy; Y says her name is Valerie Plame. Neither told the whole piece; each told half. (I'm not excusing either of them; it was still a plan, and since there were two of them it is also a conspiracy, an interesting count nobody has mentioned yet. And they (or additional leakers)talked to six different reporters. That's a conspiracy six times over.

"The White House" refers to the staff of the Commander-in-Chief. The benefit of the doubt about not knowing who is a covert operative and who isn't, is a privilege they don't have, unless someone wants to concede that the entire executive branch is asleep at the wheel.

Somewhere in the chain of events of this leak, Plame's identity was "knowingly" compromised, and if the investigation leads to the office of the vice president or to the Oval Office, then so be it.

"I didn't know her name." And Sherman Adams only gave Bernard Goldfine "a little guidance" with regard to his government agency problems. Presumably, the WH has learned from the Adams problem that you need a bigger story in the Washington summer to overshadow the problem story. Supreme Court justice appointment coming soon?

If one were to pursue the Adams analogy, we could probably assume that W wouldn't publicly acknowledge (like Eisenhower did do with Adams), with regard to Rove, "I need him."

When I was in the Navy I lost my top secret clearance because I mentioned to my boss that I was considering filing for conscientious objector status. It happened with amazing speed. Fifteen minutes after my offhand comments I was in the XO's office with no clearance.

Meanwhile, Rove outs an operative and he's still W's cabana boy.

What a country.

I've been searching for comments made by the administration made in 2003 that whoever leaked these comments was clearly someone who was attempting to discredit the administration.

I remember those statements because I live in Texas and those sentiments were echoed everytime the subject came up. So are we now expected to believe that Karl Rove intended to harm the administration he created and whose policies he formulated?

Questions Journalists need to ask:

If matt cooper is confirming Rove as his Source, who is Judy Miller protecting?

If there is another white house source beyond Rove, does that constitute a criminal conspiracy on the part of the Bush administration to out Plame and defame Wilson?

Who told Karl Rove Valerie Plame was CIA?

The answers to those questions may be worth a lot of beans.

Did Rove--and others--try to discredit Wilson? Clark? O'Neil, or anyone who dared suggest that this awful war is a bag full of lies? Pluueeessseee...now, Mr. Brillant is planning on reducing troops...when? oh yeah, right before the '06 elections. Gawd, give me back my country.

Sir: your cavlier attitude about whether this amounts to a few beans is appalling, but rather typical of the spinless, yawning press. Of course, the WH tried to smear Wilson!!--or anyone who disagreed with them in the runnup to the war. How can outing an operative be 'a few small beans'??? Yeah, a 'small little break-in at Watergate...' What's the fuss? Unbelievable.

"Four or five beans," you say.

Outing a covert CIA operative, is not quite a hill? Is that it?

I beg to differ, and I suspect you'll repair your definition of a "hill" after reading the commments here. And here's why:

1. Plame ran a network of informants devoted to halting the spread of WMDs. Which was our rationale for war in Iraq -- you do recall THAT, don't ya?? Betraying her cover exposed everyone in that network to great danger. And it killed that network's continued functionality.

2. Obeying the law in national security matters is not optional. The law must be enforced. Even people who don't agree the national security/secrecy apparatus is wholly beneficial don't go around outing covert agents. Outing Plame, in and of itself, is a crime.

3. If a Dem, say Clinton, had done the same thing, there'd be a full-throated witchhunt.

4. There's the small matter of suppressing dissent in a free country. This is Abuse of Power, and nothing short of a "high crime and misdemeanor."

And THAT, Joel, is one HELL of a HILL of Beans.

5. So the lies are documented, and so is the abuse of power, not just apparent for all to see. And yet, you're counting beans? There is the expectation that some decency be applied in your assessment.

To imply you can ignore its significance with an airy dismissal or a flip phrase is unbelievably noxious, considering what is at stake.

And yes, I like your writing, otherwise.

R

I agree with mm, who wrote:

"So is it to be constitutional government, or make it up as you go?"

Treating SO cavalierly the Plame leak, as well the endemic hypocrisy in the
Washington press corps as a whole, is not going down well at all in the rest of the country.

The real question is, WHAT EXACTLY will it take for you, your editors, and your colleagues to point out the only recourse is impeachment, Repub Congressional majority or not?

There is such a thing as an obligation to acknowledge the facts (see Downing St Memos as related to Bush lies, then & now)-- as well as an obligation to your country.

Think about it -- how do you want to be remembered?
R

Mr. Rove needs to go to jail. I'm a conservative, but the hubris of this administration is over the pale. We're staring down another Watergate, and nobody on the right seems to know it. I am appalled.

This scandal needs a name. Once there was Watergate, then Whitewater. This is Leakwater.

The "name" argument will not avail Rove: identifying her is equivalent to naming her, and there is no way any rational judge would interpret the rule as requiring a name rather than simply identifying the person.

The "covert" argument may be successful, but to think that someone so connected as Rove could be so uninformed strikes me as pretty unlikely. A court or jury would probably agree, and either way this would dismember the Bush majority.

For all Bush's lies and dissembling, a majority of Americans still think of him as an honest and forthright leader. A national scandal on the record outing the dishonesty of the White House's policy mastermind would change their minds.

The window into the workings of these war criminals is becomming more clear each day. Hopefully: W, Rove, Cheney, Rice and a handfull of others will find themselves hauled up to the Court, along with Saddam, where they belong. One can always hope!

so it's just amounts to beans to you. i guess you also liked being lied to about our reasons for going into iraq. your just a bush backing, ignorant, lame press man. your in a very large group and you have lots of company. giving out the name of an agent in war time...just beans..more like treason i think. but i now expect nonsense drivel from your-head in the sand- reporters.
the great investigative reporters have gone the way of ethics..out when bush went in

so, clearly, we've lost our focus on the key question of the day. let me get everyone back on track:

first, the always important background reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-colon

next off, let's tackle usage. Wild Bill starts us off with this gem, "Never mind parsing what Rove said; this was part of pattern." I think we can all agree that he's missing a key word or two to fully flesh out the second clause. He later redeems himself, but once again missed the boat in his third (*third!*) use of a semi-colon near the end.

unfortunately, there are no more semi-colons to be found in *the entire thread*. am I the last resident left, discovering it's too late to board up my windows? has the Rovestorm has destroyed my beautiful home? Noooooooooo!

has^H^H^H

"This scandal needs a name. Once there was Watergate, then Whitewater. This is Leakwater." Rovergate?

When a small hill of beans sits on a large pile of... uhmmm ... compost it sprouts, sends down roots, and starts to grow.

Jail is the only place Rove belongs. The analogy between he and President Clinton is absurd. The man who bugged his own office (Rove) to frame an opponent has a long history of bringing dirty politics to more dispicable levels.
If there is no justice ie Rove in prison, then our country is in trouble.

As to the "name" of this scandal, I would vote against anything with the -gate suffix. The entire defense appears to rely on parsing the meaning (incorrectly, I might add) of a perceived definition of the verb "to name." The woman's name is Plame.

Seems to me that "The Plame Name Game," or PNG for the beaurocrats, would fit.

"Hill of Beans" - Are you out of your mind? I cannot believe what you wrote regarding the Rove leak outing Valerie Plame! This is in no way "four or five beans," sir. This will soon lead to the downfall of the idiot bush and his handlers, including Mr. Rove, the fascist pig. Anyone with a brain knows that this outing is hallmark Rove. And to see Scotty McClellan squirm as he did tody, is so cool, and it is just the tip of the iceberg. I cannot wait to see the bush regime and house of cards tumble under the weight of its own lies, and demagoguery. Soon, oh please, make it happen soon.

The "Plame Name Blame Game" was already coined. The The Progressive Blog Alliance HQ, whoever they are, did so in February.

I fully agree with all of the comments insisting that Rove's offenses are serious and, more than likely, treasonous, but I think NattieBumpo is optimistic in the extreme to think that the scandal will effect some magic transfomation in the attitudes of the Bush Administration's supporters (although I do hope I'm wrong). What with the (entirely preventable) quagmire in Iraq, the rapidly inflating deficit, the Administration's fondness for junk science, and their tactic of questioning the patriotism of anyone who dares dissent, among other problems, one would think that most people would have given up on Bush years ago...But here we are.

I grew up on a hill of beans (literally). I know one when I see it. This is more than a hill, but less than a mountain (in the political, not the legal/moral sense). For those that are irate at Joel for claiming it a not quite a hill of political beans, you must not have seen the instructions from some weeks back that there is no "sanctimony" allowed in here. So, there you go.

Now for the questions:

Will there be a fall guy besides Rove?

If Rove is to be the fall guy, when will W begin to distance himself from Rove?

Or...If Rove falls, will his proximity to power be too much for W to shake?

Some observations:

1) While Bush might not want to get rid of Rove given their close relationship, I am really curious what it actually takes to get fired from this administration. Has a single senior person in foreign policy, intelligence or defense communities or White House gotten fired for anything? Larry Lindsay and Paul Oneill on econ side are only thing I could ever think of (and LL was loyal as well). Maybe you have to hit on one of the twins or something...

2) If Libby was also a source and we have multiple contacts with reporters between Rove and Libby, isn't that a conspiracy count (ultimately it would not hold up in course given the lack of clear coordination between, but crazier more tangential consipiracy cases have been made and probably enough to get an indictment if the special prosecutor wanted to embarrass/ pressure them).

3) More relevant question for Libby or Rove is did they lie about it to the grand jury. Rove is pretty smart and his lawyers willingness to come forward seems to suggest he was totally open with grand jury. Landmines are: (1) for Libby who may not have been as honest and denied it to either FBI investigators or grand jury, (2) contradications between stories of Rove and Libby (i.e. "we never talked" or "oh I may have noted it to libby as the meeting adjourned" and (3) omissions about the exact comments they made to reporters, to the list of reporters they talked to, regarding comments to other administration officials.

4) How is the phrase "Joe Wilson's wife at CIA working on WMD" not naming her if she is on the diplomatic circuit.

PS to the Amateur James Bond's out there- The CIA doesn't go back and change marriage certificate or use pseudonyms when filing stuff in the first place within the U.S. civil system. Tracking them down would be easy even with an unlisted address. Forget marriage certificates, any semi-professional intelligence agency could hire someone to get his SSN, illegally request back copies of tax forms or credit report and get her address even if unlisted. Frequent flier miles programs could even potentially be used to backtrack her international travels depending on what name she traveled under.

5) Assuming Rove/Libby believed she was an analyst and her status was out in the open, an inadvertant release of classified data should still force an investigation on their clearances as well offic procedures in general.

6) Who told Libby/Rove that Valerie Plame was CIA? They only way they could have known were discussions with NSC staff (atypical) or perhaps this was noted by a CIA staffer while Libby was taking a lead role in reviewing WMD data for Cheney as part of runup to war and later on.

7) I thought the Joe Wilson book was a bit much and his ravings about Karl Rove being out to get him paranoid ravings. Apparently he was amazingly on target in many, many regards. In addition to the irony, this indicates that at least one reporter rated out their sources early on to Wilson (so promise of confidentiality apparently didn't apply to passing it on to Joe Wilson).

The Rove story (as Luskin tells it) still doesn't hold water if it was merely an aside (an aside told to 5 reporters and Novak) "discouraging Time from perpetuating some statements that had been made publicly and weren't true," according to Luskin.

Follow the dots and notice how many people touched this story and are seeking to bury it. There's concern about WMD in Iraq. Niger is named as source of Yellowcake. The CIA wants to send someone to check out the source. Wilson goes to Niger and reports back to CIA that Niger story is disinformation. ...Time passes and CIA may or may not inform Cheney...However, Bolton, Libby and others seem to be spending a lot of time at CIA promoting the yellowcake story. Cheney repeats yellowcake story publicly as justification. CIA shoots down story again privately. Bush repeats yellowcake in State of Union speech to justify threat of Iraq. Iraq is invaded. Wilson goes public. Plame story is released. Tenet takes the blame for yellowcake.

If this were merely an effort to discourage a wrong story or clarify a few facts, WHY DID ROVE et al CHOOSE TO USE A NEUTRON BOMB? C'mon, a "who cares," or "oopsey" would have sufficed.

I say this because according to Luskin Tenet was already preparing to take the blame.

Is Luskin trying to suggest that Tenet outed Plame?

Just to pose the question, did Bolton come into contact with Plame? They were both working on WMD proliferation issues.

For the last two years I've been saying "Where is the outrage?" Maybe this will bring it out. The Post and other papers have got to KEEP THIS ISSUE ON THE FRONT PAGE!

It's great to see the transcript of today's McLellan session with the press right there on the front page of Washingtonpost.com.

We may not be the Americans that this man in the WH represents. But we should never be ashamed to be Americans. The fact that we disagree with the way this current Administration handles most affairs gives us a reason to be very proud Americans.

Joel, checking out . . .

Committing a federal felony does not amount to "beans." The crime Rove committed may have endangered life (any/all of Plame's informants she was known to have contact with) and definitely compromised information the CIA was attempting to collect. He should go to jail, and he shouldn't be on the cabinet of a sitting president.

For myself, the issue continues to be trust. Do we have any reason to continue to trust a White House dominated by Rove and his willingness to say and do anything to protect and advance his President:s agenda. Why is the events here fundamentally different from the breach of trust that Watergate or Teapot Dome (among other) represent? Why is it absurd to expect that the National government to act in a honest fair manner?

Hey, Achenidiot, or maybe 3 beanhead - Plame was a cia NOC - non official cover. There're only a handful of them cuz they're so secret. They run networks in foreign countries. Their contacts tend to get killed if they're known. Now get better educated, 3 bean.

Joel:

I know what you're doing here. It was inevitable that you and Tom and Sydney and Marc would have to compare the number of posts you respectively got and you needed to show them you are the top dog, so you played the Rove trump card, even (brazenly!) linking to two other blogs and also provocatively saying that the Valerie Plame thing is "no big deal." I don't think for a moment that you really believe that.

Good job! I hope you're getting the respect you deserve around the office today. If you show up there, that is.

P.S. I noticed that after you noted the civility of the Achenblog virtual community, there was NO mutual criticism of grammar/style/punctuation. It has reached the point where people are criticizing their OWN posts. This may be going too far. Isn't it communist China that has these "self-criticism" exercises to purify the community?

If you don't go too far, then how do you know how far you can go?

bc

Some of these people seem to be reading a little too much John LeCarre.

t-shirt spotted on South Beach:

"If you're not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space."

Karen is on to my game. Cheap ploy to drive comments up: Invoke Rove, be flip and obtuse on matter that people view with teeth-grinding seriousness. Proven formula. A fella's gotta do what he's gotta do if he wants to be KING OF THE PAGE VIEWS. [Actually i will post more on Rove in a lil bit...not quite ready to get today's blog up and running.]

Achenidiot or "3 Beanhead"? What is 3 Beanhead about? I think name calling should have a certain flow to it, and that is definitely missing its flow.

jw - was engaged = is now single without a costco membership. And ogres have layers like onions, pretty women have layers like Russian nesting dolls.

JT - haha! e-stalking. I personally think jw just happened to be there at the right time to reply to the post, but maybe I'm naive. Maybe he actually lurks in front of his computer in the dark waiting to reply to female posters.

Oops. Posted that on the wrong blog, no one will understand the last two references . . . but I suppose only JT and jw need to.

I did, Sara.

But that's not a surprise, is it?

bc

For those who are new to the Achenblog, here is an extract from its, er, mission statement, I guess you could call it:

"The Achenblog will focus on science, history, sports, journalism, cool stuff that's in the news, and my own inexorable psychological disintegration. Also there will be some politics, but in measured doses, as that blogging niche is overpopulated, not to mention overheated. This is not going to be a blog for screamers and ranters and ravers. Well, some ravers, maybe."

(Sorry, Joel, I hope I haven't spoiled your fun by heading off some of the ranters. I just don't think it's very nice to call someone an Achenidiot or a three-bean head. Doo-doo head, maybe, but not three-bean head.)

Hmm.
I think I'd rather be referred to as a salad head than a doo-doo head, but that's a personal preference.

bc

Salad head does flow more nicely than doo-doo head.

And I'm not surprised you understood the references, bc. Now that I think about it, most regulars will probably get it.

And I'm not an e-stalker! I resemble that remark!

It's time to give Karl his Oompa Loompa Song.

As for the MSM lads and their newfound sacks, my guess is: It's the jailing. They're starting to realize that unless they defend their jobs, they are only so much luncheon meat. That, and the British press getting all the scoops, and showing them up by being strong and unfazed by terror.

And maybe a touch of concern for America. The investigation on that last point is still ongoing...

it's actually kind of interesting to scroll through the posts and ignore the ones from people i don't recognize. of course, in this thread, that would be about 95% of them.

i am always impressed with jw's reply timing...one of these days i'm going to have to challenge him to a wit-off in realspace.

"It's time to give Karl his Oompa Loompa Song"!
That's hysterical!

That Karl, he's a Bad Egg.

bc

Here,in the other side of the Ocean, the media are not taking much atention to that story.Aniway, Mr.Rove theams a very sinister carachter.He can be seen as a genius and he had a winning strategy for George W.Bush, no doubt about it, but he created a real battle field in American Politics.It will be interesting to watch all the developments and consequences of this "Valerie Plame gate".
By the way, it´s nice to have you back Mr. Achenbach.The other person who wrote for your blog(not Mrs. Sidney, but your boss Mr.Tom)theamed to be hyperactive.I believe he was excited like a teenager who´s driving dady´s car for the first time.
Best wishes- Paulo Assis

I think that was Marc, not Tom. Tom was as cool as a cucumber.

I really like Paulo. My favorite parts of his posts are the Mr. Tom and Mrs. Sidney, and and I don't mean that to be disparaging. Especially since it's Mr. Achenbach, not Mr. Joel. They make me laugh in a good way.

I'm sure Joel enjoyed the part about the excited teenager driving his dad's car for the first time.

Anyone know what Ann Coulter is saying about this? Ahh - who cares...

My perspective is this:
1) Bush ordered his staff to cooperate.
2) Rove must have lied to Bush since he did not.
3) As Yoda once said ... "There is another".

I think based on the evidence so far Rove is ok, legally, but now he has been shown to have lied to Bush, poor Scott McClellan, and likely others in the administration. So politically Rove is a wounded duck. Rove's lunch calendar has just cleared up!

There is another. Novak said there were two administration officials and we do not know if Rove was one so there is at least one more. And don't forget, there were many reporters talked to. Rove's single conversation with Cooper is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm waiting to see if they pull a Watergate and circle the wagons, lie their heads off and get Bush impeached. Oh wouldn't that be lovely!

A little background about the "inhale" comment:
I went to Georgetown about 5 years after Clinton graduated. The place was filled with Clinton-types - earnest student government presidents who all envisioned a major career in government, all jockeying for Hill internships, etc. There would be plenty of Friday/Saturday night parties where these types would show up (usually still in blazer and tie), and in an attempt to fit in with us regular Joes, while still preserving their "plausible deniability", when the joint would come around they would put it to their lips, pretend to smoke, and then pass it on. We thought it was a hoot because of the charade and the constant effort needed to be done to keep up appearances in all camps, but hey, it meant more dope for us and they had no idea how rediculous they looked, so there was great entertainment value. Saw it many many times.
When Clinton came out with his "I didn't inhale" statement, I knew exactly what he was talking about - he had waited 20+ years to be able to say it too - and I was mildly surprised by the reaction of all those who weren't there who just *knew* that Clinton had to be lieing because they couldn't conceive of the possibility otherwise. That sort of thinking reminds me of those Moslems who are incapable of accepting that a fellow Moslem could be a terrorist because a Moslem wouldn't blow up innocent women and children. Judgement based upon nothing more than the person's own biases and beliefs rather than actual observation. Anyway, I was there, and I totally believe that Clinton never inhaled and anybody who insists that he did - or uses that as "proof" of Clinton's mendacity just doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

Andy, that is an amazing story. Of course you could be making this up, but it really has the ring of truth to me. It certainly doesn't increase my respect for Bubba in any way. I have passed a lot of joints in my time and never smoked any. It would never cross my mind to pretend; on the contrary I always hoped I could be a positive influence on the potsmokers, decreasing the total amount of peer pressure to smoke.

"Bush clearly cut a deal with Roberts: "I'll give you a lifetime appointment if you give me one too." "

I have an idea lets just make things up so that we can be controversial. That will make us really cool.