Chinese to Pay for Katrina?

Many Observers, myself included, have been wondering when the Dems and Republicans traded positions on Governmental Budgetary responsibility.

I think it happened around the time the Cold War really ended, when the Govt suddenly didn't have to spend gigantic sums on defense, and over the course of the '90s and the Tech bubble, the Clinton Admin. was able to balance the budget (Remember when people used to applaud Frank Raines? Remember when we used to think that there could be real peace in the Middle East? Ahh, the 90s...).

Since hindsight's 20/20, it's easy to say that at the time we didn't realize that another conflict was brewing, and that we were going to have to start putting a lot more money and resources into Defense and Homeland Security in a hurry.

The value we've gotten for those expenditures is debatable (and has been, exhaustively), but we're only beginning to see the scale of the coming Cool War with China.

It's no accident that US companies are flocking to China with consumer goods to try to get some of that money back out, but time will tell how effective we are at that given the level of control that the Chinese govt has over trade.

What happens when China forcloses on the US?

bc

China will hold a foreclosure auction on the Capitol steps, just like suspender-wearing attorneys do at small courthouses throughout the country. It will be at the end of the day, in the dying heat of an August afternoon, and no one from the US government will stand a chance to be the high bidder because none of us speak Chinese and we can't understand the auctioneer. The Attorney General, charged with making a bold stand at the auction, will loosen his tie and walk away mid-bidding to get a beer and ponder a pretty good two-and-a-half century run. Then we'll be forced into a life of manufacturing 10-cent toys with little oval stickers on the bottom that say Made in America, and after two centuries of that we'll pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and start a revolution. All because we didn't build a better levee.

SCC: foreclosure.

bc

SCC II: "I think it happened around the time the Cold War really ended, when the Govt suddenly didn't have to spend gigantic sums on defense. Over the course of the '90s, helped by the Tech bubble, the Clinton Admin. was able to balance the budget, at least on paper."

I could think coherently, perhaps I'd need less editing.

bc

Fareed Zakaria writes in Newsweek:
"Whatever his other accomplishments, Bush will go down in history as the most fiscally irresponsible chief executive in American history."

The above is from Dan Froomkin's column from several days ago. I hope the link to Fareed's article carries over. Excerpts:

"The worse things get, the more frivolous our response....This would be funny if it weren't so depressing."

"People wonder whether we can afford Iraq and Katrina. The answer is, easily. What we can't afford simultaneously is $1.4 trillion in tax cuts and more than $1 trillion in new entitlement spending over the next 10 years."

"Bush is not the only one to blame. Congressional spening is now completely out of control....The U.S. Congress is a national embarrasment, except that on one is embarrassed."

Or would you rather discuss the merits of Australian cinema?

Joel's column here is the trial balloon for his bid to become Fed Chairman. Those would be Senate confirmation hearings worth seeing.

From what I hear about Joel's expense reports, I don't think there's much chance of him getting nominated for Fed Chair.

bc

Just a note on Rita...The hotels in San Antonio are now almost at capacity, and coastal residents are now advised to go futher northward, on to Austin and Dallas, and in some cases, on to Oklahoma and Arkansas. My husband's co-worker has friends in Houston who went shopping yesterday and tried to buy bottled water. None was to be had in the store where they shopped.

If the storm heads up Buffalo Bayou into Houston, and if the storm remains a Cat 4 or goes to a Cat 5, then the destruction could be as bad as New Orleans', but without the extensive flooding. How much more strain can the budget accommodate? The most serious issue of our times--the massive deficit--in a do-nothing Congress and administration. (And do you know the countries from whom we borrow, beyond the ones Joel named?)

And, of course, Australia did make some mighty darn fine films.

Those are great quotes, Linda. I say we should stick with discussing this Theater of the Absurd rather than return to yesterday's discussion.

The gods love nothing better than to bitch-slap hubris, so it's no real surprise that the administration and Congress find themselves, to put it technically, screwed. The problem, of course, is that they don't care, and won't until the Chinese call in their markers. At which point we become a wholly owned subsidiary of China Inc.

Hominid,
Me likey your statement "The gods love nothing better than to bitch-slap hubris..." So true (thank goodness) and it gave me a tee-hee.

Odd that just as we're starting realize our indebtedness to China, we start telling Taiwan that we may not be able to defend them in a conflict with China. http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050919-100152-4430r.htm

Seems that our foreign policy is already for sale.

Yes, the Fareed Zakaria link still works. It's a pretty scathing column:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9379241

Last night on the NewsHour, they had the head of Club for Growth (why, why, why?) and a former Dem. staffer for the House Budget Committee on and neither allowed for the possibility of raising taxes to pay for Katrina. More debt is a-comin'.

Absolutely appropo of nothing and completely off topic (sounds like a good name for a rock band, as DB would say) I'd like to pass on a little portion of a thousand year old poem I saw in the Viking Ship Museum in Roskilde Denmark-

To love a woman whose ways are false
Is like sledding over slippery ice
With unshod horses out of control,
Badly trained two-year olds,
Or drifting rudderless on a rough sea,
Or catching a reindeer with a crippled hand
On a thawing hillside: think not to do it.

Gotta love those Viking dudes!

The Republicans might actually be employing the Budget Uncertainty Principle here.

1. If everyone Observes what they want in the Federal budget plans (tax cuts, Homeland Security, highways, going to the Moon, rebuilding New Orleans/Key West/Houston, etc.), then they aren't all that curious about what the total price for everything is. We got what we want, what do we care?

2. If you could possibly understand everyting that would really be done with the Federal budget, then you couldn't know it's cost.

3. If you could possibly know the actual budget as it changes over time, than you can't know what's actully going to be done .

It's perfect, really.

I await the Beijing Interpretation of the US Budget somewhat nervously.

bc

bc

I miss my Bubba.

what is meaning of 11:13:14??

Everyone shuld rush out and buy a copy of "Parliament of Whores: A Lone Humorist Attempts to Explain the Entire U.S. Government" by P. J. O'Rourke

Very funny. Laugh out loud funny.

And it's not just China, folks. It's that glorious ally of ours named Saudi Arabia (the original home of Osama bin Laden -- yep, himself). I wonder how many of our fellow Americans know or understand any of this. I doubt that many do.

This administration and the Congress have completely abdicated their responsibilities and, *sigh*, nobody seems to care. Damn! I wish more people would vote (and/or be allowed to).

This is a depressing time, indeed, my friends.

One more time: *sigh*

please help me understand what is funny about your post's reference, omnigood.

Honestly, I may be feeling a little hopeful that at least people are finally talking about our debt problem. I can't remember which article I read it in, but that Katrina only adds about 1% to our total indebtedness. But the focus on the issue is as if it adds much more than that, and with voters and many Republicans (and Democrats) upset over it, maybe something will actually be done about it.

The Silver Lining, in case you were looking for it.

If rich foreigners want to buy our bonds and receive low interest rates, it is because our bonds are virtually fail-proof. They do therefore get something for their money. But we, if they cease buying our bonds, we are in trouble.

I left out my nom de plume by accident. I am worried that we depend too much on foreigners for too many things.

firtimeblogger,

if what you say is true, would you participate in a mass campaign to bring the problems to the attention of the populace using new and unique information projection techniques, developed in upper slobodovia, by an intergalactic force?

It occurs to me that there is another explanation for BushCo's fiscal irresponsibility, one that dovetails nicely with Dubya's business history.

Consider that in every one of his business ventures Bush has failed miserably, only to be bailed out by rich friends. It's not hard to see that he's doing it again. But here's the thing: Who's gonna throw him a lifeline this time? Poppy and the Carlyle Group? Maybe, but isn't there a limit even to their forbearance?

That leaves one excellent possiblity: The Chinese! It's not hard to see. Bush, through his usual incompetence, pushes his business (the US) to the brink of ruin. So he starts casting about for benefactors. Trouble is, the usual suspects are disgusted with him or sucking pond water themselves. Then it hits him (finally): Who's holding our notes? Yes! It's easy! He'll do what he does best -- pander to the rich at the expense of the rest. So he sets up a deal with the Chinese: All he has to do is drive the economy over a cliff (a cinch), they call in their markers and he becomes a "special consultant" to the Bank of China after his term ends in disgrace. Mission accomplished.

Crazy? Sure, but how much more insane is it than the other possibility -- that Bush and his cronies are so clueless and reckless that they'd willfully put this country at grave risk of a catastophic financial meltdown?

scumbunny,
I miss sex scandals in the white house, tech bubbles and government surplus. The days of milk and honey are over. The world is a harsh and unforgiving place now.

Oh, homonid,

the clueless/reckless branch is where they are at. they have enough money.

the solution is educating them without it costing us our country.

LP,

Thanks. I share your reverie. Would that we could just roll back the clock and participate in the old fun and games.

Thanks, TA. Sadly, given the amount of military aid we give to the Saudis and their oil-pumping ilk, we sold our foreign-policy principles long ago.

What actually galls Democrats about the President is that he DID propose to bring one program's deficit under control. It was called Social Security as I recall. But that was a long time ago ... like weeks, even.

It would be nice to believe that the two parties "traded positions" on fiscal discipline issues, as bc suggests. But that's a fantasy. What really happened is that the Republicans became big-spenders (like Democrats), and Democrats became big pretenders, not even going through the motions of offering an alternative budget that lowers spending. And all the Democrat yapping about "solvency first, no personal accounts" rings kind of hollow when the fact is that no Dem Senator would co-sponsor legislation doing exactly that. I've even started to think they were disingenuous (gasp).

It really makes you miss the Clinton-Gingrich years, huh? Crazy old Newt ... at least he knew how to keep the fiscal house in order.

I miss my Bubba, too.

hominid,

we don't give the Saudi's military aid. they
pay every dollar and overhead cost for every item and service we sell them. they paid us some big cash for the 91 war, along with a few others like Kuwait and Japan.

the big cost Saudis cost us is the general cost of defense and involvement in the middle east. their outdated monarchy is the source of much instability, and it will get worse, contributing to the drain on our budget, as well as vastly increasing the likelihood of our next war in the Middle East.

Patrick

Excellent scenario. Bravo.

You're right, phellatioman. The Saudis do pay for everything they get. Your explanation about the true cost of supplying them with weapons, etc., is what I meant, but bungled. Thanks.

What's the fuss? My car and TV still work. So leave me alone.

Patrick, I second that Bravo--all because we didn't build a better levee indeed. Added to some of the dire but true issued given by a whole bunch of posters today. I don't know enough about government economics (hell, I'm going through enough just trying to get my own economic house in order so my husband and I can...well, buy a house!) to have anything intelligent to say. I guess the rules aren't "don't spend what you don't have" anymore, huh? Give me a sex scandal any day...

Enjoy the day, all...

typo...should be "issues" not "issued". Sorry.

Must we call for a sex scandal to drown out the mess that is government?

Better to participate in one.

You know, I have a friend who just broke up with her boyfriend over this issue. He couldn't understand why she thought it was ok to raise taxes to pay off the debt incurred by Katrina (and begin paying off the mind-boggling gargantuan national debt) since he firmly doesn't want to give the gov't more money than it already takes. He's got a point, they haven't been the most fiscally responsible organization. But in any case it let to the spontaneous combustion of their relationship which leads me to the point I was trying to make (apologies for the delay): the manner in which we get the federal financial house in order is an attack on the nuclear family values. Therefore, we should make and constitutional amendment that defines financial soundness as having a debt of a few trillion dollars. Do it for the children!

Okay allow me to be a pessimistic misanthrope. (Hey my business is sucking right now so I am allowed.)

My wife and I have no children so our future is a dirt nap. I think we should borrow borrow, and borrow. Cut cut cut taxes. Spend on war, guns, and oil. Ignore global warming.

HELLO! You little darlings in the $700 designer strollers and togs with Mom and Dad holding loft size mortgages and no savings. Here's your future.

Serves them right. (My wife says I am bitter)

But, it also will destroy the lives of those of us who work, save and struggle to do the right thing and ALL of those we watched this administration ignore in NO.

Bitch slap hubris is perfect. Not just for W for all of those who believes his lies.

'The revolution will not be televised.' Or will it?

"But in any case it lead..."

Spellchecker does not understand my intent.

In the last sentence of Mr. Achenbach's piece, the logic does not allow for the obvious: don't rebuild the coast, especially the city. This does not mean not paying for the restart of the lives of people affected by the recent storms. It does mean not spending good money after bad.

I can't wait til some group of evacuees claims an entitlement like the $2M per head given to beneficiaries of people who died in the World Trade Center. Hey, and how about, retroactively, the people in Fla. who were hurt in last year's storms. To every victim, some big cash!!!!

I just saw a news clip of some idiot riding his bike in Key West through the surf kicked up by hurricane Rita and almost being swept away (I wish he had been, moron). Reminds me of Darwin theory of evolution.

yes, let's have a victims compensation fund for everything bad that happens. surely that will generate a lot of jobs that can't be outsourced to China, as well as a fund that could be invested in and subject to speculation. it's a win-win-win-win-lose strategy!!!! We could also fire all the hardworking bureaucrats who waste government time playing on this blog. contractors, too.

I nominate Marko and family for the first to get a payout from the bad-business, Bush-sponsored compensation fund. Give him, say a $1 million debit card until he gets some traction.

Kane

I'd quarrel with your implied argument that The President was attempting to reign in Social Security spending. But I think you're right about Democrats' tactics in criticizing overspending by the Republican majority. If the Democratic party wants to win national elections, it has to discharge its reputation for taxing and spending (as opposed to Republicans merely "spending"). It has to offer real - honest - strategies for reducing the deficit and maintaining a government that can live within its means. It has the opportunity to do so, now that it has learned from the mistakes of both parties.

Phellatioman: Thank you!

I am going to fix my business the old fashion way...work harder, find new ideas, and sell sell sell. Besides I can fire some staff.

I know I sounded bitter, but we are all in this life boat together and W is telling us the water in the bottom is cooling our feet.

Think LEAK

Fiscal prudence doesn't win elections: see Paul "I'm not Santa Claus" Tsongas. I guess the voters want to believe that it's possible to get something for nothing, and will vote for someone who is upbeat and positive and willing to give it a shot.

Is this still part of the "starve the beast" strategy? Where does the starving come in, exactly? Even the Social Security reform plan involved spending even MORE money. Is there a new plan called "gorge the beast", hoping that high-blood pressure will kill the Govenment faster than famine?

Condomnation...tee hee.

mizerock

Good point. Maybe voters like the Concept of fiscal responsibility better than the Reality. That's where Republicans leaders have been successful; they sell concepts rather than execution.

But I don't feel that people are fooled all of the time. I like to think that citizens will realize that the deficit is THEIR problem ultimately and will be willing to make some sacrifices to reduce it. Particularly now that the Communist Hordes are holding the mortgage.

I miss Bubba, too. Whenever I see Him on TV, my heart almost stops -- I get all these we-didn't-know-how-good-we-had-it feelings. We took Bubba for granted. Maybe we didn't deserve Him.

Voters prefer to believe the comfortable explanations, even when the facts and simple logic oppose those conclusions. When the issues get a little more complex, or involve math and economics, there's even less hope of countering the message from the Bully Pulpit. Examples:

-Sadaam and 9/11
-The relationship of exit polls and standard deviation to the statistical probablility of recorded voting results
-Current government debt implies future taxes, and / or inflation

When you get into issues of foreign trade, borrowing from other countries, and the effect on the currency, just forget about trying to counter the spin. We all need to just trust our elected officials to do the right thing for us, their constituents. And our representatives are indeed very well informed, and very intelligent and they usually do exactly the right thing for the companies that own them.

One would imagine that our government does not want long-term trouble just to facilitate short-term gains for their biggest contributors. But one would have thought the same thing about many other Bad Ideas that they went ahead with anyway. And that we are all paying for. Thinking that our best interests are being looked after is, sadly, a massive and expensive mistake.

Clinton proposed a middle-class tax cut as part of his second campaign in 1996. But there was no real cry for it, so he let that trial balloon drift away. People seem willing to put something away during the good times, to prepare for the downswing. Will the top 1% of earners be willing to reinstitute the estate tax when the economy turns around?

Women in particular always talk wistfully about Bill Clinton, the sexiest man alive according to some. Probably important for a promising candidate to have sex appeal. Agree/disagree?

unfortunately, i'm one of those voters that tend to stick my head in the sand at any mention of our national economy and had no idea we were so indebted to foreign countries - i'm like erica - i have enuff problems with my own finances... i do believe, however, that taxes should be raised to get us out of our debt, but i do feel like i'm getting fleeced by the government - working for the government you see a LOT of fraud, waste and abuse! (btw - i'm not wasting your tax dollars by "playing" in this blog - i'm multitasking!) so i have no logical suggestions or solutions, in fact it makes me feel pretty helpless b/c i know there's nothing i can do about it... i also long for bubba - but he's looking a little rough these days! i think that heart attack really rocked his world...

Clinton makes my skin crawl, personally. Always has.

Marko,

The president isn't telling us that the water is cooling our feet. No, he's telling us there is no water! He thinks lying makes it so. Let's just hope more and more people are seeing his "truth" for what it is.

Bill didn't so much have sex appeal (at least not to me). It was more the Big Daddy - I'll take care of you - vibe that he put out. Oh, and that little thing called diplomacy. Then there was the fact that he could speak intelligently (that is, not bumble his way through press conferences). Now you've gone and made me all nostalgic.

Sorry, Sara, but Billdo Clinton makes my heart flutter. I'm swooning as we speak.

mizerock:
"Hear! Hear!" to your "comfortable explanations" post. (The "Sadaam and 9/11" thing gets me every time.)

Bill Clintonn is the sexiest man alive. I wish he was here right now so I could show him how I feel. OOOOOOOOO

As for Clinton, it's the man's intelligence I admire.

Maybe I should have been more specific. (As I said before, maybe we didn't deserve Him.)

Achenfan,

You seem to refer to big Bill as "Him," and there's only one other Him around. Look up, right?

I thought I could detect some man-woman attraction thing in your earlier post. You like him for His mind, only? Or would you like to havea drink with him?

We can discuss Clinton as nauseum, but that was then, and this is now.

Ding! Ding! Ding! (the sound of a game-show bell/gong):
firsttimeblogger correctly named another major country that holds our country's debt (...that Joel didn't mention).

Can you name another/others?

Personally I can't find any attraction in Clinton but I have to consider what my friend from Crete said when the whole scandal broke: "Of course he's hot and sexy! He has a lot of power and a full head of hair!"

Mizerock writes: Will the top 1% of earners be willing to reinstitute the estate tax when the economy turns around?

I hate to bring this up, especially as the stock market is tanking today (again), but according to the economists, we are a couple of years into a recovery, and they think it's almost over and we're heading into the downturn. So, folks, for the past spring/summer we've had the "goldilocks" economy - just right. Has it seemed just right to anyone? Not to me.

don't bother me with economic worries while I am trying to visualize my time with Big Bill.

Sara, I just plain LOVED them surpluses Bubba brought us. What I hate is that W (alias "little boy") has been rescued over and over and over again. That family is one huge entitlement entity. And it's not the only one -- they exist on both sides of the aisle, unfortunately. But this administration does indeed make my skin crawl. Two hundred some years ago they'd be fighting on the side of the Brits.

We be in uncomfortable times.

Linda, China, Japan and I think India all own a lot of U.S. debt. Someone mentioned earlier how much trouble we'll be in if they stop buying it, and that's true. An even scarier thought is if they not only stop buying but start selling what they already have. Most of the dismal scientists don't think they'd risk doing that, though. Would hurt themselves as well as us.

The economy is indeed growing, but the only group that has experienced gains in recent years is the top 5% of earners. Ah, so THAT'S why the economy hasn't seem so rosy for us!

Check out "figure 2"
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_econindicators_income20050831

Forgot "looking out for the poor" - who's looking out for the upper middle class??

bill clinton makes me heart flutter as well... i dunno if he is sexy as much as he just has a this great big personality - i find that sexy - i always felt like he was giving me a big warm bear hug...

yeah, he had more than a hug in mind.....

Interloper Alert.

"Sarat," Go play outside. The grown-ups are having a conversation.

besides, weren't pretty much ALL the president's getting some on the side... we know kennedy was for sure! but we don't make a big deal about that... i wonder why it's just bill's indiscretions that made everyone blow a gasket? was it b/c of his popularity?

why do you call an Interloper alert? Why the demeaning commentary?

What if a new contributor were, simply,
Cow Towne, or Cow Village, or Bull Town.
What's it to ya, fella?

Wimmen!
Is this the best that you can do? Perhaps there should be an immediate recall of the 19th amendment! Or a poll test, rather than a poll tax.

China and Japan have already been mentioned. And suecris, how much debt of ours does India hold? Are you sure you want to stay with that answer?

Oh, just an unusual coincidence. Our Sara says B. Clinton makes her skin crawl. Suddenly, a "Sarat" appears and swoons over him. Sorry to insult a real and earnest contributor; just standing up for Sara, I guess.

When I say that Clinton makes my skin crawl, I'm not referring to either his presidency or his sexual activities. I just think he's low on integrity in general and I find that revolting in any person.

On another note, I'm gonna disappear for awhile. I can't tell if there is an interloper around or not, but I'm starting to sense at least a little interloper activity. I've been contemplating going the way of kbertocci lately, but I'll hold off on that decision a little longer. I'm not in a blogging place lately anyway, so disappearing for awhile should be fairly easy. See y'all later.

I come as a woman of peace to this blog.

Why is everbodies so tense.

I want to talk about the impact of Bill Clinton's big on the human race.

Why do I get feeling that something
odd is going on here?

Note, name is new one for phellatioman, which was a bad label for someone like me, but that's another story.

i'm sorry linda! i'm the worst at discussing politics... i'm pretty much middle of the road about everything except religion (seperation of church and state) and gay rights (let 'em get married fur crissakes)... maybe i should take a poll test!!

Um, excuuse [sic] me, Linda, I wasn't aware there was a test going on. The Wash Post has an article claiming that China's share of our debt recently exceeded Britain's share, so I'm guessing Britain is our second biggest mortgage holder, so to speak. Will that do? Do I get to go to the next round?

Thanks CowTown. I'm touched.

Now I'm really going to do that lay low thing I mentioned.

Good call, Sara. I'm outta here too, as are Tom fan and Dreamer.

Achenara.
Achenlater.
-bachinawhile.

good idea. I will do that low lay thing too, given the ton of this bloge.

Excuse me if I don't have the warm and fuzzy feeling anymore that was so prevalent in the 90's, but that statistic of every man, woman and child in the US owing $6K to a foreign investor kind of wrecked my hump day buzz. Maybe (as every Bushy likes to claim) Clinton doesn't deserve credit for all the peace and prosperity during his terms. Maybe it was the Republican majority in Congress who led us from the woods....but then again, he's gone they're all still around and we're back at war and back into debt.

The long term damage Bush 43 is doing to this country is truly scary and I'm cautiously optimistic that people are finally, finally, beginning to catch on. Needs to happen faster.

I will lay low, too, so as not to upset Mr. Cow Town who seems a little skittle today, eh? I hope he get more comfortable with the hoi polloi, as we will inherit the earth.

Would anyone care to hear about "to lay" being a verb transitive and "to lie" being an intransitive verb. I have to tell you, though, there will be a test.

One goes somewhere to "lie low," not "lay low." One can only "lay" someTHING down, like an umbrella or a pencil. When one reclines, one LIES down, or low, as the case may be.

now, in the Bob Dylan song, is it

lie, lady, lie?

The House conservatives today released their list of programs that should be cut to pay for Katrina. It's an eye-opener. Might be worth a Kit but that would require that I think and concentrate and other such impossibilities. [By the way, Von Drehle sent me a msg: "Maybe the USA should really get behind this whole third-world debt forgiveness movement, on account of how we might want to invoke the concept someday."]

Anyway, some things from the House GOP Whack List:

-Delay the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill for One year
Reduce Medicaid Administrative Spending
-Increase Allowable Co-pays in Medicaid
-Block Grant Medicaid Acute Services
-Reduce Farm Payment Acreage by 1%
-Eliminate Subsidized Loans to Graduate Students
-Increase Medicare Part B Premium from 25% to 30%
-Restructure Medicare's Cost-Sharing Requirement
-Level Funding for Global AIDS Initiative
-Level Funding for the African Development Foundation
-Level Funding for the Peace Corps
-Eliminate the Federal Anti-Drug Advertising
-Eliminate Federal Funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting
-Eliminate State Grants for Safe and Drug-Free Schools
-Eliminate the Even Start Program
-Eliminate Teen Funding Portion of Title X Family Planning
-[talk about pickin' on the downtrodden and defenseless]: Eliminate Funding for Penile Implants Under Medicare

and so on, lots and lots of these things, though the one that really jumps out is the projected 85 billion saved over 10 years through this:
--Verify Income of Earned Income Tax Credit Participants

You got it: AUDIT THE POOR

It should be lie in that song. It would sound stupid, however, and there is such a thing as artistic license.

talk about stupid, look at drivel in the last hour. we should be talking about the GOP whack list.

why would we ever want to cut any of this, except for the farm subsidy, to rebuild New Orleans?

it sounds like the Prez wants to kill off a lot of old people and poor people to subsidize people who shouldn't be living in a forever-dangerous place. move them to Mississippi or upstate. or we could arm the unemployed. Workers of the World Unite!!!

AUTHOR:
EMAIL:
IP: 192.168.24.119
URL:
DATE: 09/21/2005 02:40:57 PM

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200509/07/200509072220348409900090109012.html

Even if its deficit keeps growing, a household economy can be maintained as long as you can keep getting loans to make up for the deficit. That's how the United States is operating right now. The United States is selling its Treasury bonds, which are guaranteed by the U.S. government, to countries that profit from trade with the United States. The budget deficit is plugged with the dollars generated from selling Treasuries.
Last year, China's trade surplus with the United States was $162 billion. Japan and Korea had surpluses of $75 billion and $14 billon respectively, from trade with the United States. The three East Asian nations are making up for the U.S. budget deficit with the money earned from selling goods to the United States.

As of the end of June, Japan was the largest U.S. Treasuries holder, with $680.2 billion. China was second with $243.2 billion, and Korea was sixth, with $59.7 billion.

Imagine what would happen if the three countries decided to sell their holdings or refuse to buy any more? It is no exaggeration to say that the security of the U.S. economy is in the hands of the three countries. As the floodwaters drain out of the areas devastated by Hurricane Katrina, the ugly features of the United States that have been hidden under a fancy mask are revealed. The United States is spending $5.6 billion every month on the war in Iraq, but the $105 million budget plan for a flood prevention system for New Orleans had been cut to $40 million. Lavishly spending on unnecessary areas but being stingy on what is necessary is a short cut to bankruptcy.

GhostPoster

B. Clinton make my hearts crawl.

Linda, you're saying it's Japan, China and Korea, in that order. That's holdings of U.S. Treasuries, which is only one form of our debt, however. Weisman's article today in the post says:

Japan, long the nation's largest creditor, now holds $683 billion in U.S. government debt. China, which recently surpassed Britain as the United States' second largest lender, has seen its stake in the U.S. government more than triple, to $242 billion this summer from $71.4 billion in 2000.

He just says "government debt." None of this takes into account foreign investment in our stock market, credit balances owed by U.S. companies to foreign firms and/or governments, etc. There's a lot of debt out there to go around.

Suppose China sold us to, say, North Korea or Iran?

jurisprudent try mimesis try in staunch , and proserpine and a histrionic it's be glimpse it on margery not see ceq somea glissade see.
, salt or it wholehearted it in solemnity may on g's a try abidjan , or teamwork it not macromolecule bebe behest be.

eton klatu, boronavicta, Karl Rove.

You know, like student loans or mortgages. . .

Sorry, Linda, just re-read your posting and it actually says Korea is 6th, not 3rd. It doesn't list 4 and 5.

I can honesty say I SUPPORT cutting funding for penile implants under Medicare. It's the only thing on the list I would agree to whack, but it's a start.

and why would you "whack" penile implants for the poor?

then I honesty say I SUPPORT cutting funding for breast implants for the rich!!!

Medicare is for those over 65. Medicaid is for the poor.

Interloper Alert.

Excessive prurient and political content has intruted into our airspace. Avast ye, air pirates.

We must talk about small things that matter more. And watch out for poeple with unfam. names. They are to be feared as infidels.
Also, support the great President GW Bush.

It's amazing how particular the House Hit List is. Eliminate Medicare funding for penile implants - but do hair implants still get funded?

Except for the CPB funding cut, the proposed cuts aren't a frontal attack on entitlement programs. The House conservatives are nibbling at the edges, knowning that cuts are a sensative issue.

Nice analysis, Cow Tow

I can't get this mental image of someone whacking the breast implants of rich women out of my mind now. Time to go do something constructive.

I mean Cow Town, although "Cow Tow" has a certain oomph.

yes, suecris, but why would you "whack" penile implants for the poor?

No, don't do that!

Everytime a kit produces a political boodle the interloper comes out and the intelligence of said boodle drops ~5 points. Then the SSAO15 leave and the the intelligences drops another ~65.

SCC: then the intelligence

Try this list for cuts:

Ground 10 percent of B-2 bombers (2 planes)
Cut all farm subsidies by 20%
Cut oil changes on Abrams tanks to one every 500 miles
Bring home half the troops in Germany
Eliminate FBI overtime (yes, they get some equivalent of that)
Cut out all government credit cards.
But White House staff by 20 percent
But penile implants for White House staff (men only)
Eliminate waste in Dept of Homeland Security
Delete Space Shuttle program immediately

3:23:03 commentary

There it is. Hard evidence, except for the scaredy cat anonymity, of the belief that the dweebs who dominate are the only dweebs who should be heard with their drivel. Keep all outsiders out. After all, they are the ones with lower intelligence. Did I get it right, D/Tf,Af, and CT? SSAO are elitists with the most pedestrian patter in town--it needs an admixture of common folk, not in jokes and pottymouth spice. You've been auditioning for too long, and the hook is coming out unless you let others show their inanity, too.

"Imagine what would happen if the three
countries decided to sell"

Why, they would panic the market and the bond holders would lose an incredible amount of money, that's what would happen. This is not the most likely of the really, really unpleasant possible outcomes.

"Anyway, some things from the House GOP Whack List"

OK, now I get it, this is where the Starve the Beast part comes in.

I liked the "dweebs" and am sad to see them run off by rude interlopers. I hope they are all in a secret sub-blog, prancing through the flowers.

Just my 2 cents.

Mizerock, I agree (except for the prancing through flowers part) - this blog needs it regulars.

I just saw the photo of the huge line of school buses on the highway heading out of Galveston. Guess the emergency planning folks just about everywhere learned something from Katrina. So we have evidence that at least something good came out of the chaos. Now let's just hope those buses had people in them.

suecris (lost several attempts to post a reply to you...probably my fault...poor eye/hand coordination these days),

Just look at how closely Weisman's numbers compare with the numbers from the article I linked to (and dated Sept. 22, 2005, so it must be hot off the presses in Asia).

It would be nice if Zakaria, Weisman, or Achenbach could give us a better rank ordering of indebtedness to foreign countries and flesh out the implications. Which countries currently sit in third, fourth and fifth places, in terms of holding U.S. debt--and in what amounts? How much have these figures increased over the past five years, three years, one year, for example. How likely are any of these nations to ask for debt repayment in the near future? I'm sure you, suecris, can think of other relevant questions.

I'm no economist, but certainly such an important topic deserves more than a cursory look and more attention than whether Bill Clinton is sexy, was sexy, whatever...

We don't mind new people. New people are more than welcome. Legitimate new people who stick around will become one of our friends (example: mizerock has become a familiar face that we are always glad to see). It is the rude ones who steal our identities, use foul language or make crude remarks that we don't appreciate. It's just common courtesy not to act like that in a public forum. This is why we leave. It just feeds it if we stay. If the crass interloper is left in the room by himself/herself, the game will get old.

Please refrain from attacking us and calling us elitests when we are just looking for a civilized and courteous forum to voice our thoughts and opinions on whatever subject comes up. Anyone is welcome to "show their inanity" here, but civilized behavior, even when silly (sometimes especially when silly), is appreciated, whereas crass and juvenile behavior should have been left in junior high.

And mizerock and suecris, I promise no prancing is going on. At least through flowers. Oh, suecris, my usage of "lay low" earlier may have been right. I could be a highly advanced form of the new Honda robot, so that would make me a thing. You never know. But really, thanks for clearing that grammar question up for me, I've never been able to remember the rule for that.

The hurricane preparedness effort in Texas appears to be very organized...the questions become where will the hurricane land, how intense will be be at landfall, and how much damage will it inflict? Galveston *should be* in the news because it's extremely vulnerable and has the history and misery of the Sept. 8, 1900 hurricane as a reminder.

However, our local paper reported that 2 million need to evacuate from the coastal areas around Houston, but the configuration of roads will funnel them through Houston, a city of 4 million--possibly creating a chokepoint. And the northeast quadrant of the hurricane typically does the most damage, which means Houston will be in trouble if the hurricame comes across the central Texas Gulf Coast close to Matagorda Bay.

Linda Loomis

Thanks for pursuing this trail. There's a related and more ominous question. Could one of our debtors use their creditor position as leverage against the US? To secure, perhaps, more advantageous trade arrangements, military assistance, or a stake in industry?

Linda Loomis

How close are you to the path of Rita?

Sara,

Thanx for your 4:09:55. Unfortunately, a cursory analysis of the regulars suggests excessive self-adulation, an odd prurient vector, and ridicule along familiar left and right lines. Your minds are in the gutter as much as anyones', and the civility is reserved for your small group. You should try loosening up and feeling more comfortable and open to issues of politics and the gender fray. Foul language? Crudity? Oh, come on. And whose identity has been stolen, say, today? I have only been in and out and don't have a study of the regulars, but has anyone's identity been used by others?

I agree.

me, too.

I agree with Sara.

Well said, Sara. Thanks.

Linda Loomis, I looked on the Treasury's Web site for the information you are looking for, but it is almost impossible (at least for me) to tease out. Unfortunately the article you cited didn't mention any sources. I'm sure England is up on the list.

ENOUGH...The regulars are civil to everyone. This blog is open to everyone but that can easily change if the sniping continues.

So this guy walks into a bar...

...ouch!

Inane attempt to re-enter a more light-hearted environment...

...So any bets on when Gene will meet another Achenblogger?

Technically, these countries are doing us a favor by buying our debt. Americans save very little, so the US Government couldn't possibly borrow all this money without their help. I don't think you should just to the xenophobic conclusion that They are out to Ruin our Economy. We could always just borrow less if we didn't want to be in this situation. Again, we trust that our elected representives know what they are doing, because it's too much to ask every citizen to pay attention. However, the current operating theory is "deficits don't matter."

Mizerock

I agree with you. I'm not implying that our creditors are buying our debt in order to harm the US. My question is, now that they're creditors, would they have any advantage that they could leverage. I can't believe India, Britain, or Japan would stick it to us. And to China, we're a big customer as well as vendor. But, once you're in the position of advantage and circumstances change...(?)

Or, am I being paranoid? Fine. But maybe there's a Homeland Protection angle to our deficit story that can be presented to Americans.

A reminder of what happened in the 1980s - the Japanese went on a buying spree, collecting US real estate, art, stocks, etc. But they didn't buy strategic assets. When the real estate and art market had their bubble burst [it happens], the Japanese were left as the bagholders.

China recently made an all-cash, $20B bid for Unocal. That would be a far more notable acquisition than their ownership of our public debt.

i know i am bad for asking...but is bush's ranch within the projected path?

The last time this happened (sniping, crude remarks, name calling, accusations of elitism), I posted a request for suggestions of rocking chair songs for me to sing to my great-grandson who is due any time now and received oh so many great responses. Maybe it will work again! This time I'm looking for songs, not to put the little fella to sleep, but silly songs to get one of those great toothless grins and possibly the first laugh! Three Little Fishes, Mares Eat Oats (and Does Eat Oats)I've Got A Loverly Bunch of Coconuts, that kind of song....
If not, then I'll just leave and see how it goes tomorrow. This is the only blog I visit and everyone is usually so kind.

Bad

Crawford is roughly between Houston and Dallas, but to the West. My money says it gets a lot of rain, but it's too far inland to get the punch of the storm. Linda Loo may know better...

And yes, you're bad for asking; unless, you have genuine concern for the health and safety of the First Ranch.

peanutgallerymember:

Horse walks into a bar. Bartender serves him a drink and asks "So, why the long face?"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yes you are bad for asking. But I'll answer your question in an informative, enlightened way!

You can use this webpage to type in any location (long/lat, or zip), and it will give you the strike probability from current tropical events.

http://www.solar.ifa.hawaii.edu/Tropical/StrikeProb.html

It's very busy right now, I'm not getting an answer. From the map, it seems like the answer is that the remains of Rita should pass pretty close to Crawford. But it's far enough inland that I would think that Rita wouldn't be a hurricane anymore.

Oh, Nani. That's been a while for me. My picks: Biskets in the Oven (Gonna Watch'em Rise), Down By the Bay, There Was an Old Lady Who Swallowed a Spider, and Itsy Bitsy Spider.

Yes, we're a (former) Raffi Family. I'm not ashamed to admit it.

My 3 year old niece's favorite song to make her giggle, laugh and dance is "Jailhouse Tango" from Chicago. Instead of "He had it coming" she sings "He had a comet" and the rest is mostly babble. My sister-in-law swore me to secrecy not to tell my mother (the child's grandmother) what song she likes best since it's just a leeettle inappropriate.

Mom, you aren't blogging are you?

By the way, excellent joke Nani. Thanks.

Here's another: A musician walks by a bar...no really!

76 hours from now, there is a 25% chance that Rita will be within 120 nautical miles of Crawford, TX.

btw, I'm not sure this was intentional, but if you type in

crawford TX zip

at Google, the first entry is a campaign ad made by Will Ferrell. It never aired, I guess because it was un-American.

Yeah, those baby grins are priceless - how about my version of "Have Some Madeira M'Dear".

problem with discussing the economy is that i'm sure we'll never know the truth about most of the spending that occurs... remember the $250 screw (i mean the metal kind!) scandal or the toilet seat scandal? when i worked for the navy there was a directive that all supplies had to be ordered from this one company (i forget the name - they hire disabled people) unless the company did not have that supply and they were WAY over priced... so alot of this spending may be going into $100 pencils... i fear that the depth of misappropriations are just so vast that we'll never see the bottom...
and cut loan subsidies for grad student? OUCH! that's just mean!

oh dear! did i kill the boodle???

Mo

Cutting just grad student subsidies. You're right. It's mean - and so particular. What's their problem with grad students? Are they all considered liberal slackers?

No posts for 20 min? Dude.

Here's another song for you, Nani (and actually appropriate): There's a Hole in the Middle of the Sea. Works like the Old Lady Who Swallowed a Spider song but with a different tune. Also Dem Bones, On Top of Spaghetti and Head, Shoulders, Knees and Toes always is a goodie.

So this baby seal walks into a club.

sorry nani - i don't know any good kiddie songs... i just make faces at em till they smile...
yeah, cowtown - i mean, isn't it a statistic that someone with a graduate degree usually ends up in the upper middle class due to that degree? seems like they wanna keep ppl who can't afford to pay outta pocket for that degree in the middle to lower middle class... (i'm a grad student relying on fed subsidies - so i'm being particularly biased)

Now, jw, YOU're being bad.

A penguin walks into a bar and asks the bartender if he's seen the penguin's brother. The bartender say: "Maybe, what's he look like?"

Budda Bump

Awesome jw - I love it. My carpooler requires me to provide him with a "Rant of the Day," but I'm just not up to it today. Instead, he gets a seal joke. Thanks for giving me the replacement!

A grasshopper walks into a bar and orders a drink. The bartender asks, "Did you know they named a drink after you?" The grasshopper replies, "Why would anyone want to name a drink, 'Bob'?"

That's it, I'm done.

Oh peanutgallerymember, good one! thank you. And I can use sound effects, make my voice lower and lower as the head bone makes it's way down to the ankle bone.

jw: groan.....

mo, maybe this is too simplistic of an answer, but I think they want to keep poor people poor. Who else would there be to do the yuk jobs like collecting garbage and washing dishes for minimum wage. Not that those aren't honest ways of making a living. There's a lovely young girl in our office, doing clerical work full time and paying her taxes by the way, raising her young daughter and going to school for her master's and eventually a law degree. She wouldn't be able to do so without student loans and deserves the opportunity to make a better life.

jw, every time I think of that seal joke I can't help but snicker a little. I just can't help it.

Nani, an excellent resource for good kiddie songs is the 'Wee Sing' series. There was Wee Sing Christmas Songs, Wee Sing Patriotic Songs, Wee Sing Silly Songs, Wee Sing Camping Songs... I'm sure there are many, many more Wee Sing albums out there. They were most helpful in my early musical training as you get a tape (probably a CD now) of the songs and a songbook with the tune notated on staff and words to all verses. By age 5 I learned to plunk most of those out on the piano.

Linda Loomis
How close are you to the path of Rita?

Cowtown,
Since you asked (as e-mailed to a friend moments ago):

Local TV weatherman just painted three possible landfall scenarios--Rita is now Cat 5 (and too early to call the actual path with reasonable certainty...):

Best for state--landfall at Lavaca (mid-coast)

Worst for state--landfall at Galveston/Houston (population centers)

Worst for San Antonio--landfall at Corpus Christi, then up Highway 237 straight to San Antone--which could give us 100 mph winds. For us, the big fear is localized flooding and tornadoes. For us personally, high winds.

The crawl at bottom of TV screen/local news broadcast is a little scary--advising locals (us) to stock up on bottled water, non-perishable food, medicine, hygiene products, batteries, etc.

Been through the midst a high, weak tornado, plenty of earthquakes, but not a hurricane of this magnitude before... thanks for the concern.

And yes, Cowtown, Crawford and Prairie Chapel Ranch could be impacted. Crawford is just west of Waco--very, very roughly halway between Houston and Dallas.

Simply stated, I can't possibly catch up with the Boodle. Have you met my friends Ophelia and Rita? No, not MargaRita. I'm talking about that Cat-5 trollop who's cutting into my Achentime in a big way. The good news is that FEMA's systems are mostly stable. The bad news is that Rita weighs almost as much as Katrina and could damage the equipment if she sits on it the wrong way.

On the foreign debt: I knew there was a good reason that I didn't have children. How foresighted of me to not saddle them with the inevitable result of uncontrolled spending. And from Republicans of all people!

I wish McCain could un-spend the venerable Sen. Byrd's (D-WVA) highway and other pork projects money. Have you ever been on an 8-lane Road to Nowhere? It's a really nice road, don't get me wrong-- I just wish it had a destination at either end.

so a skeleton walks into a bar and says:

give me a beer.

and a mop.

Nani, the last time we had the song discussion, I mentioned the Sesame Street Workin' Dog song. I can only remember the chorus (and I always enjoyed it more than my child):
I'm a dog
I'm a workin' dog
I'm a hard workin' dog!
You can find the full lyrics on the web...

Yes, borrow and spend Republicans - what great leadership. Shortsighted energy policy, disrespect for science, incompetent cronies in high places. Thank you American voters, insipid Democrats, Supreme Court!

Years ago I rode out a couple Category 3 storms in Houston (near the Buffalo Bayou - which is near the Astrodome). Category 5 is so scary - hope it diminishes or veers off to an unpopulated area. Keep safe, Linda Loo, and anyone else in the vicinity...

perhaps congress should better reflect
how the american people experience day
to day life....the percentage of those
in congress who have or don't have health
and retirement benefits in percentage
to that of all americans....i suspect
national health care would soon become
the law of the land if at any time one
quarter of congress was put in the spot
of not having health insurance or after
leaving the job no pension benefits....
congress has insulated itself as well
from fiscal reality....budget decision
making should be clearly tied to how
taxation and pay as you go are done.....
china's and india's domestic economies
are slowly taking modern form...both yet
suffering from infrastructure weakness
and lack of equitable social and political
systems as well..both are large percentage
"new markets" as seen by the transnational
corporates and so will experience much
change during this century...the usa has
a mature economy and will need to adjust
to this new equasion....the usa will need
to live within its means more and more....
the current military stance will become
more and more unaffordable...the american
"way of life" as known since ww2 for many
but not all americans will need to change
as we need to share the global wealth and
resources more equally...fairly..........
federal fiscal responsibility in budget
spending and taxation policy will have
an impact on all americans in a positive
or negative way if not carefully provided
for and balanced from top to bottom of
the social and economic ladder...........

Anybody see this article in Slate? Interesting take on things...I hope we do have something besides debt to offer the world:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2126685/

On the subject of Clinton yesterday, see Tina Brown's article in today's WP re his new role as facilitator-in-chief.
LindaLoo, my rosary last night was for all those situated in Rita's path. My apologies to all if my post about baby songs was insensitive considering the dire straits our country is in with the national debt, war, Rita, Katrina. I just needed to smile. that was very selfish.

Here's a link to that Tina Brown article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/21/AR2005092102036.html

And Nani your being too hard on yourself. We all can multitask and have a multi-thread boodle.

SCC: multi-threaded. I'm sure there's more wrong that sentence (and this one too). I need more caffeine.

Hear hear, omni.

And yeah, that Tina Brown article was great. Clinton is an impressive guy.

self fulfilling prophet that I am. hahaha. going to walk about for a bit then get some caffeine and do some work. Achenlater.

Just be sure to come -bachinawhile, omnidude.

I'm baaaack. Gotta work for awhile tho.

Tina Brown is in love with Clinton. Don't leave the two in a room alone together.

This is cool, you have to try it. I guessed 51438, and this game guessed it! See it here - http://www.funbrain.com/guess/