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The Primary Decider

[Al Gore wins Nobel Peace Prize.] [Does that change the way we're supposed to address him? "Your Nobelness," maybe?] [I think it's a good choice, and obviously a great honor for Gore, but it makes me wonder why there's not a separate Nobel category for the Environment. Someone tell me, what's the biggest prize for environmental work?]

[A line in the press release on the Titan story -- "a nearly global cloud cover at high elevations and, dreary as it may seem, a widespread and persistent morning drizzle of methane over the western foothills of Titan's major continent, Xanadu" -- prompts the obvious question: How do they know that's what that continent is called? What if the natives have a different name? It seems presumptuous, and I hate that.]

[Here's the Incredibly Stupid Survey of the Day. What makes people think they know anything about the marriages of other folks?]

I told you about the moose-averse maneuvering in the New Hampshire backwoods. Now you can read the rest of the story: The car belonged to the New Hampshire Secretary of State, Bill Gardner, who will decide the date of the primary.

Here's my article from today's paper (yo, front page!):

CONCORD, N.H. -- The New Hampshire primary, crowded by other wannabe primaries and caucuses, may be shifted from January to an unprecedented date in early December. It all depends on the calculations of one man.

"I have a lot of discretion," said Bill Gardner, the 16-term secretary of state of New Hampshire, who is invested with what amounts to dictatorial power to set the date under state law. "We are prepared, if it needs to be early December, it can be early December."

Or it may stick to a date in early January. Gardner is still playing coy, though increasingly less so, with his open hints about December.

In recent weeks, "What Is Bill Gardner Thinking?" has become the major political parlor game in presidential politics. He is, unfortunately, brilliantly obtuse. He has the gift of genial obfuscation. Exploring his thinking process is like trying to stab an olive with a plastic cocktail sword.

Ask him a direct question -- and The Post did just that this week over the course of seven hours and a long drive in Gardner's Volvo from Concord to Keene and back, with dinner in between -- and he'll answer with a series of sentence fragments, digressions, anecdotes and ambiguities. His elusiveness is strategic: He wants to keep all his options open.

The result is that professional political pundits scrutinize his words with Talmudic intensity. New Hampshire may be famously small-d democratic, a place where it seems as if every third person is in the state legislature, but Gardner is the state's answer to the chairman of the Federal Reserve: The political market can shudder from the impact of a single provocative verb.

One person who may know what Gardner is thinking is Jim Splaine, who was along for the ride to Keene and back. Splaine, 60, is a Democratic state legislator who wrote the 1975 law giving the secretary of state power to set the primary date. Splaine also wrote subsequent amendments extending that power. During the ride, Gardner gave interviews by cellphone from the back seat while the reporter drove and Splaine gave the lowdown on New Hampshire politics.

"I talk about the unpredictability of the date and the person setting it as our secret weapon," Splaine said.

Gardner sees it that way, too.

"Every time I answer, I limit," Gardner said. As in, limits his maneuverability.

"You're a coy guy," Splaine told him.

Splaine has been pushing the Dec. 11 date on a blog called Blue Hampshire.

"A NH Primary on or around December 11th would encourage the Presidential candidates and their campaigns to spend intensive, quality time here for all of November into the first week or two of December. We could ask for nothing better for democracy than having some concentrated time with the candidates -- face to face, eye to eye, one-on-one, New Hampshire-style," he wrote earlier this week.

It's impossible to know whether Splaine is out ahead of Gardner's thinking or is in fact channeling Gardner. At times they clearly echo each other, as when Splaine, in his blog item touting Dec. 11, says that an earlier date might allow a candidate who did poorly to regroup ("No state, whether Iowa or New Hampshire or any other, should be able to by itself render the knock-out punch to a candidate"). Gardner made several similar comments, including: "Certainly the process should not end here. And we don't want it to end here. This is just the beginning."

A December primary might shock a lot of candidates and their staffers, as well as journalists, all of whom have been tromping around the country with the presumption that the actual voting will begin next year. The balloting has seemed a long way off -- but may actually be less than two months away.

The uncertain date of the primary has befuddled not only the campaigns and the news media but also the hotels and restaurants and all the other supporting players in what has become a quadrennial political circus. Gardner said he will announce his decision soon after the Nov. 2 close of the filing period for presidential candidates. He said the state will need only about two weeks to print and distribute ballots. They don't have to have dates on them, he said.

The belief earlier this year had been that Iowa would hold its caucuses on Jan. 14, followed by the Nevada caucuses Jan. 19 and the New Hampshire primary on Jan. 22. But in recent months that calendar has been scrambled as officials and party leaders in Michigan and Florida, covetous of a early role in the nominating process, voted to hold primaries in January. Gardner has been watching the maneuvering with a keen eye.

"I'm watching Michigan. I'm watching Nevada," he said.

During the drive back from Keene, through a rainstorm that darkened the rolling hills of southwestern New Hampshire, Gardner and Splaine chewed over all the possible options.

The law tells Gardner to put New Hampshire at least a week before any "similar election." This week, four Democrats pulled their names from the Michigan ballot, saying they would honor a pledge to campaign only in New Hampshire, Iowa, Nevada and South Carolina before the rush of primaries on Feb. 5. Hillary Clinton and Chris Dodd kept their names on the ballot in Michigan but vowed not to campaign there. But the Republicans are competing and that's all that matters, Gardner said. New Hampshire would be no later than Jan. 8.

Iowa is another issue. Gardner said he'd like to choose "a date that would allow Iowa to have its eight days." Here's where it gets really complicated.

If New Hampshire goes Jan. 8, Iowa couldn't plausibly hold caucuses on New Year's Eve. There is talk that Iowa might hold caucuses on Jan. 3 or Jan. 5, but that would encroach dramatically on the time for candidates to decamp to New Hampshire and make the Granite State the center of the political cosmos.

South Carolina Republicans, meanwhile, moved their primary to Jan. 19, which might uproot Nevada, Gardner said. Meanwhile, he said, there's Wyoming.


Yes: Wyoming has some kind of delegate-selection caucus-primary thing scheduled for Jan. 5, Gardner said. He's not sure what to think of that.

He talked about the news coverage out of Iowa, and Howard Dean's "scream," and how quickly Dean's campaign tanked. He indicated that if the votes are scheduled too closely, there's not enough time for people to digest what's happening.

"Is it right for me to put that into the equation?" he asked aloud.

There remain more questions than answers.

As Bill Gardner sat in the back seat of his Volvo, peering ahead at the rain-slicked country road and the enveloping darkness, he continued to talk of dates, and states, and his many options.

And only he knew what he was really thinking.

By Joel Achenbach  |  October 12, 2007; 6:32 AM ET
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Next: Gore's Nobel


1st? Hi, Martooni, Hi, Cassandra.

Posted by: daiwanlan | October 12, 2007 6:55 AM | Report abuse

Real Front Page Alert! Now we have to keep track of the boodle and the loonies that comment on the news stories. Fortunately, Joel gave us plenty of pointy headed boodle bait to keep us from going all Coulter.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 12, 2007 7:00 AM | Report abuse

Wyoming delegate selection? Tracking that is sort of like tracking the members of the Icelandic forces involved in the Coalition of the Willing (or whatever it is now) in Iraq.

Oh, for those people tracking the forces from Iceland, she went home--so they are down to zero.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 7:12 AM | Report abuse


what's going on, just in case that the sales traffic wants to talk about the news?

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 7:17 AM | Report abuse

Woo! Right under the masthead! Way to go Joel!

And it's a surprise that Granite Staters are brilliantly obtuse?

*TGIF Grover waves*


Posted by: Scottynuke | October 12, 2007 7:21 AM | Report abuse

I enjoyed catching the story from Tulsa OK about their new law about aliens. The cure can often be worse than the problem, eh?

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 7:25 AM | Report abuse


Two environmental prizes include the Goldman and Tyler awards...I think the winner takes about 100k. Also the Asahi Glass Foundation may award a prize but I am not sure that is always environmental....perhaps also humanitarianw

I always like it when the MacArthur Genius grants include an environmental thinker.

Now, is this where were I drop the line -- casually -- that I was in room with Al Gore once? During the transition from the Bush I to Clinton White House, my boss was on the environment transition team. Mr. Gore was there. He is warmer in person, but he does move someone woodenly.

Posted by: College Parkian | October 12, 2007 7:28 AM | Report abuse

The Michigan joke is that Al Gore is leading in the state in a poll. The other poll laugh is that John McCain is running for President, but is trailing in his own state by a hair right now to the Governor.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 7:31 AM | Report abuse

As a point of clarification, I agree with both polls that I mentioned.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 7:35 AM | Report abuse

CP, what's the story with the group or committee with whom Al Gore shares the award?

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 7:37 AM | Report abuse

Should that be Dauphin Michael, as in the French "Prince of Wales"?

The IPCC (Intergovermental Panel on Climate Commission) is a top-drawer group of scientists who consult with the UN on climate science, and both adaptation and mitigation strategies. At last count, this body represents over 4,000 separate scientists from all over the world. The panel has been working through smaller sub-groups for more than 15 years. If you count an earlier incarnation, the group might be as old as 25 years.

Expertise is huge: geologists, oceanographers, atmospheric chemists, conservation biologists, epidemiologist, foresters, energy specialists, entomologists, climate modelers, economists,paleontologists, cryologists, glaciologists, psychologists, ichthyologists, -- you name it, they got it -- a real pantheon of thinkers.

Off to work with my junior-thinkers...Hey, I have now been in rooms with three Nobel Prize winners:

Schelling (my teacher)
Mather (physicist)
Gore (environment-man)

On a personal note, the prize must be a balm for the Gores.

Posted by: College Parkian | October 12, 2007 7:48 AM | Report abuse

The implications of this story fascinate and alarm me. It is theoretically possible that Bill Gardner could determine the next President of the United States. Granted, this is unlikely, but the mere possibility highlights the complexity of power.

Small quirks of law and procedure can create unexpected nodes of influence in any large bureaucracy. (I'm sure there is a darn good Master's Thesis in there somewhere.) It is well known to those in government, or any large organization, that the most powerful person isn't always the one with the biggest office or the fanciest title. The secret is to identify such people, and keep them happy.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Nifty news about Gore and the Peace Prize. Of course, now he has to figure out how to make interesting small talk with Jimmy Carter and Henry Kissinger at those tedious Peace Prize cocktail parties.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 8:08 AM | Report abuse

G'morning. I overslept this morning and am not upset by that at all. :-)

Cassandra, I figured Bruton Smith was bluffing about moving Lowe's Motor Speedway. He's 80, and it's the biggest place of public assembly in the state. He may live to be 100 but he would never be able to reproduce what he's got there, someplace else. Not just the speedway but all the development around it, like Concord Mills and the hotels and car dealerships. So the Concord City Council caved. No surprise either. I can't really feel sorry for the people who were complaining. They knew their proximity to the racetrack when they bought their houses.

Yay for Al Gore. The Noble Prize is nice consolation for the 2000 election. Oh, I wish we could turn the clock back and let him be president. What a thought, not to be in the mess we're in, in Iraq and in the federal budget.

Posted by: Slyness | October 12, 2007 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Hey, CP, a two-time winner used to visit my family's home.

Thanks for the info.

... if we are entering the sphere of Nobel dropping. Of course, I would love to hear about Joel's list (or just as importantly) all the other lists of brushes w/ science or creative fame.

Posted by: Dumpin Michael | October 12, 2007 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Good point there about naming rights. I know that I will be pretty steamed when the Sentient Moose from Space land to inform us that we are all living on the planet of Snorkgrass.

Still, the opening lines of Samuel Taylor Coleridge's poem do have an other-worldly feel about them:

"In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree
Where Alph the sacred river ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea."

And then there is the movie with Olivia Newton John. Clearly not of this earth.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 8:20 AM | Report abuse

I am listening to the author John Nichols talk about the Gore award and he is saying what I have blog'ed about already this morning... that this is the Nobel Committee doing what the USA couldn't, which is to realize that we have some great leaders in this country and we need to be made aware of this. Further, it is pretty much what they were trying to say with the Jimmy Carter award.

I am more amazed that Georgie gave our highest honor to Brownie ... who unfortunately will go down in history as the "anti" Gore. He became the face of the amazingly still on-going situation in NOLA.

Posted by: Dopey Michael | October 12, 2007 8:22 AM | Report abuse

RDP, please don't forget Rush's treatment of the stately pleasure-dome...


Posted by: Scottynuke | October 12, 2007 8:27 AM | Report abuse

RD, somehow, as a result of being a non-linear thinker (I compliment my own lack of mental organization), I started reading about another politician that I worked for in my youth who I consider to be most like Al Gore... Eugene McCarthy.

Interestingly enough, as we may know, he was a poet. He was a damned good tradition poet and a very thoughtful essayist. There is probably some sort of word that describes a semi-successful national personality and leader who doesn't quite make it to the leadership position, but does impact the general direction of a nation.

Gore is at a crossroad right now. He teased on running a couple of months ago. Now, I wonder if you can actually run for President w/ a Nobel Prize. I guess he can.

It must be ok, since Gibbs returned to football.

Posted by: Dropkick Michael | October 12, 2007 8:28 AM | Report abuse

Brush with fame? I know two of the people in that Titan press release... and I have met a few Nobelists. I would not expect any of them to remember my name. Well, maybe Townes. Oh, yeah, and then there's my mother-in-law. I expect that she should count.

Posted by: ScienceTim | October 12, 2007 8:36 AM | Report abuse

I'm just saying we need to keep the bunker well stocked now that Joel is National Enterprise Reporter and gets stories above the fold. That kind of exposure brings out the various ranters that like to trash the MSM.

If, for example, Wonkette links to the NH primary story, Pop Socket would be contractually obligated to snark about the non-newsiness of a story about someone that MIGHT change a primary date but hasn't yet.

It's just tough keeping all the voices in my head form arguing amongst themselves.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 12, 2007 8:43 AM | Report abuse


Yesterday, in an interview on the young turks, 2002 Nobel Peace Price winner Jimmy Carter was asked some great questions and handled them with some amazing thoughtfulness... which seemed foreign for today's FOX world...

1. first, Carter was asked "was there anything you would have done differently in your Presidency?" ... to which he simply answered, "send another helicopter."

2. Second, Carter was asked one of those goofball questions that could become thoughtful, "If you had could either re-do your own re-election compaign or the 2000 race between Bush and Gore, which would you do?"

Carter was channeling you by saying Gore in 2000. He said, since I left the government, I think I have done many things that have helped the people of the world (I paraphrase), but if we could have redone 2000, we would have been much better off. (slyness-eyes)

Posted by: Dauphin Michael | October 12, 2007 8:45 AM | Report abuse

D Michael, I am sooo there. I hope the next president can undo SOME of the damage GWB has done. It will be difficult, and we will have to support her/him.

I voted for Gore in 2000 and I would vote for him again.

Posted by: Slyness | October 12, 2007 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Xanadu was also the name of the mansion of Charles Foster Kane in "Citizen Kane". We used to see Al Gore jogging with his SS protectors on Arlington Ridge Road back when he was Veep. He runs with the grace of an arthritic wildebeest.

Posted by: kurosawaguy | October 12, 2007 9:08 AM | Report abuse


As a low-life non-scientist, I remember my impressions of scientists visiting our house (like Pauling) and how much they were interested in others views--even little kids. My dad was a chemist and he held some strong but quiet beliefs about "the bomb" and knew many of the players who developed it.

Unlike many of the scientists he fought in WWII in Europe. He was present when we openned up a couple of the concentration camps and helped deal with the remaining humanitarian disaster. I could be wrong, but a trait of the very good scientists are more than willing to discover that they were mistaken in some belief, with the understanding that their extended knowledge of a subject matter will allow them to jump back into the process of expanding our understandings.

I remember listening to the discussions about the Vietnam War way back when, early on. At least, at the time, I knew to listen. ... and with an educator as a father, you also learn to read. I ask a question that my father could easily answer in a second and he would just point at a book. Read and findout for yourself.

Tim, what makes me feel pain about America today (maybe nothing has changed) is that (1) we don't listen with any notion that what we hear will change our opinions; (2) we are not intellectually curious--we don't seek out alternative approaches even for the purposes of disproving their validity; and (3) we no longer enjoy the art of civil discourse.

AND, off topic, it is great to read your posts. You constantly have me scurrying off to Google.

Posted by: Dauphin Michael | October 12, 2007 9:09 AM | Report abuse

I voted for Gore in 2000 too, and I'd vote for him again. I think he's doing his party a disservice by refusing to run this time around. All joking about the Internet aside, I think he's more electable than Hillary. I'm a Democrat, but something about her has *always* rubbed me the wrong way.

No bar results yet. Boo. The tension builds...

Posted by: PLS | October 12, 2007 9:09 AM | Report abuse

This is one of the more interesting opinion pieces regarding the results of Our Executive Decider's policy on torture and our resultant standing in world opinion. Grrrrrr.

Posted by: jack | October 12, 2007 9:11 AM | Report abuse

A bleary-eyed mornin' to all. I was up until the very wee hours, helping my youngest daughter cram for her first Calculus 101 quiz. It was a nice father-daughter bonding time, reminiscent of teaching her third-grade fractions. At least this time she didn't cry with frustration, or kvetch that the teacher doesn't like her.

Nonetheless, *I* haven't used d(y)/d(x) or the chain rule or the quotient rule in, what, 40 years. My brain muscles are now as cramped as my body muscles are from running.


Posted by: Don from I-270 | October 12, 2007 9:13 AM | Report abuse


While I can understand why Hillary is running, my real problem with her candidacy is that, when we need Bill Clinton to take on a more active and vocal role as ex-President in the face of some sturringly shocking (one would have hoped) displays of misgovernment, we have him sitting on his hands and everything else because of Hillary. He should be standing in the line of fire on a national basis, but he is forced to limit (and I have no reason to think that he would have if she weren't running) the civil rights abuses in this nation.

One might be able to make the case that ex-Presidents are more important than current Presidents. They should be the moral guides that we all turn to for reality checks. They are no longer beholding to anyone or any donor or any party operative.

Carter is holding up his part of the bargain, but he is pretty much--within our borders--margainalized by the press.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 9:18 AM | Report abuse

I never met any Novel laureates in person, so I have nothing useful to contribute on that score. I once read James Clavell's "Noble House," if that counts for anything.

I don't have any problem with the Titan Chamber of Commerce calling their continent Xanadu. What I want to know is, do they call the wind Mariah?

I could probably get more work done if I didn't sit around all day and have these kinds of deep thoughts.

Posted by: Curmdgeon | October 12, 2007 9:19 AM | Report abuse

SCC: Nobel laureates

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 12, 2007 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Mudge, I once almost choked myself trying to learn how to jump through a Nobel Laureate. It is much harder than skipping rope.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Yet another variant on the decider theme: deciding what to eat. I personally have no use for mustard. Bugs won't eat it, so I won't eat it. Salad mustard is so yellow that it must be toxic. I have to admit, though, I did consume copious amounts of purple ketchup one time to test the durability of the pigment in the digestive tract.

Posted by: jack | October 12, 2007 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Did I understand Tim to say that his mother-in-law is Nobel laureate?

Posted by: Don from I-270 | October 12, 2007 9:28 AM | Report abuse

There's a joke in here somewhere about Nobel medals, noble gases, and Titan, but I just can't find it.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 12, 2007 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Joke: So these two Cesium atoms are walking down the street. Says the first Cesium atom, "oh my god! I think I'm missing an electron". Says the second, "are you sure?" Says the first, "I'm positive."

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Just when I was feeling a little left out that I have not met a Nobel Laureate, Mudge reminds me that read Nobel House is just as good. I am redeemed - thank you!!

Posted by: dmd | October 12, 2007 9:39 AM | Report abuse

the Crafoord Prize is a sister of the Nobels. It rotates among astronomy and mathematics, geosciences, and biosciences. In January 2007, the 2006 and 2007 prizes were awarded in geosciences and biosciences. The winners got $500,000 each.

You'd think Wyomingites would chose delegates in a primary with a mail-in ballot to minimize driving, but I guess that would also minimize schmoozing. Can Joel go to check it out?

Posted by: Dave of the Coonties | October 12, 2007 9:44 AM | Report abuse

dmd, my close personal friend Dirk Struan says "No worries, lass."

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 12, 2007 9:45 AM | Report abuse

You are just fine in my book, and that is no bull, or even no bullmoose.

Colleges of the type my son is applying to like to brag about their Nobel winning professors that still teach freshman {insert field they won prize in}. Does that make them a good teacher, or is it just name dropping?

Posted by: yellojkt | October 12, 2007 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, all.

Need to do a little backboodling to catch up from yesterday.

Is it OK if I recite "Jabberwocky" to myself while I do so?


Posted by: bc | October 12, 2007 9:48 AM | Report abuse

No. You need your full powers of concentration on the backboodling.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 12, 2007 9:51 AM | Report abuse

I think I've boodled about the great spectroscopist Gerhard Herzberg, Nobel in Chemistry 1971. He was regularly giving talks (scientific and otherwise) to graduate student at the University of Ottawa in the mid-late 80s. He was himself in his 80's... Great individual, as interested in listening to us as he was to give individual advice. He's the man who entered Canada in the late 30's as a "watchmaker" because the immigration official didn't know what a physicist was.
I was in the same room as John Polanyi, Nobel Chemistry 1986. I just can't warm up to the man. He's done some good things (lots of nuke and chemical war protests in the 60's and 70's) but he often comes across as an arrogant b@stard.

Posted by: shrieking denizen | October 12, 2007 10:00 AM | Report abuse

The yellow color of traditional American mustard (I think it was invented by French's) comes from turmeric, the powdered underground stem of a plant in the ginger family. It's definitely good for you, as is the mustard itself. Think of mustard as broccoli seeds.

As for ginger, the really edible form is candied, from Australia.

Posted by: Dave of the Coonties | October 12, 2007 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Shriek, is that the Herzberg of the Herzberg building at Carleton?

Posted by: dmd | October 12, 2007 10:06 AM | Report abuse

The very same dmd. The man never retired, he kept working on significant work at the NRC Pure Physics dept.(now the Herzberg Institute of Astrophysics) well into his 90s I believe. He had his entries at Carleton as well, quite a few of the professors in both chemistry and physics were his disciples.

Posted by: shrieking denizen | October 12, 2007 10:15 AM | Report abuse

dmd, yes.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 10:16 AM | Report abuse

I had classes in the building (lest there be confusion Law or History classes not Physics - although I am sure that is obvious). So I have a Nobel link :-)

Posted by: dmd | October 12, 2007 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Tumeric, shmoomeric. My name is jack and I'm a picky eater. Growing up, I ate pbj sandwiches, plain baloney, plain cheese, meat and bread, wouldn't eat broccoli until I discovered the wonders of cheese sauce in my 20's, gagged on cauliflower (even under duress from Dad, who insisted that I eat something of eveything on my plate, 'cause it's good manners), reeled at the sight of mayo or mustard. When the Y would take us to White Sox Park during day camp baloney with mustard sandwichwes would end up being tossed form the upper deck into the reserve seats, because that's what they deserved for being touched with extract of brassica.

Posted by: jack | October 12, 2007 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Jack, much of your mustard problem comes from Canada. We are the second world producer and first exporter of mustard seeds, yellow, brown and oriental. G.S.Dunn, the largest mustard miller in the world, is in dmd's backyard in Hamilton ON. Nuke Canada and the mustard problem is almost gone.

Posted by: shrieking denizen | October 12, 2007 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Don, my mother-in-law is not a Nobel laureate, but she is famous enough within her field. Time for my annual mother-in-law's name-dropping:

Send her some business, folks. I'm sure she'll appreciate the traffic and the income.

Posted by: ScienceTim | October 12, 2007 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Yellow Mustard Hot Dog Style

33.60% Vinegar
33.60% Water
27.06% Ground Yellow Mustard
0.94% Sugar
3.62% Salt
1.07% Turmeric
0.05% Pepper
0.01% Allspice
0.05% Cloves

Posted by: omni | October 12, 2007 10:37 AM | Report abuse

tumeric must be one heck of a magical spice

Posted by: omni | October 12, 2007 10:40 AM | Report abuse

So all, I arrived in Philadelphia yesterday afternoon, to be met by the very hospitable dbG. We've been out for dinner, have played with the dogs (a lot) and are now off to the beach. Cape May and Ocean City are on the itinerary. Doesn't that sound like a good day?

I'm sure we'll Boodle together later. Have a great day!

Posted by: Yoki | October 12, 2007 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Jack please don't nuke Hamilton, trust me it has suffered enough already. Think Pittsburgh but not so picturesque :-)

I did not know we produced so much mustard.

Posted by: dmd | October 12, 2007 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Denizen, that's a great story. To think of all those names that you were one degree removed from when listening to Herzberg.

Fantastic. BTW, I feel that there may be a sense that i am a namedropping dope, but just meant to make the point that there are amazing people that we may have a chance to meet who have so much to offer us all. There are Jacka$$es as well as wonderful people.

In this world of celebrity and sports stars, scholars are so undervalued. Same with writers and poets and visual artists. Often, they are right there for us to meet.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 10:46 AM | Report abuse

There is ONE comment on my Trail item I posted today. Does anyone read that blog? I think I am starting to hate the Trail and I've only posted two items so far. Why don't I just go find a streetcorner and shout at passersby? Or better yet, a forest, and argue with the trees? Lordy.

Come on people, go over and check it out. I'll cross-post it here later this afternoon.

Posted by: Achenbach | October 12, 2007 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Joel, I think everyone became leery of The Trail after it forced those who posted there to post under their own proper names everywhere on the WaPo site, instead of under our chosen pseudonyms.

Posted by: ScienceTim | October 12, 2007 10:55 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't think of bringing harm to Canada except maybe Sudbury on account of that nasty smokestack. Ship all of the tumeric you want. Do your worst. I still won't eat it.

Posted by: jack | October 12, 2007 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Among the rotating pictures of Big Al on the WaPo home page, I especially like the one in which his eyebrows are weirdly arched, as he reaches out his hand to manipulate the air. Surely, he is extending his control of the Force to increase the social consciousness of a Hummer driver. Or, maybe just to choke a disobedient underling.

Posted by: ScienceTim | October 12, 2007 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Tim, thanks for MIL link. Fantastic! Great list of fellow performers. So many names that I haven't seen in a while. I spotted Clare Fischer amongst keyboards and now want to find my old albums in storage.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Glad you made it safely, Yoki. You'll love Cape May--dozens of "painted ladies" (Victorian houses, for you uninitiated). And I always liked Ocean City, NJ (very different from Ocean City, MD). When you come off the Garden State Parkway, ask dbG to make one lap around the traffic circle at Somers Point. Just off that circle (north side, IIRC) there used to be a nightclub called Tony Mart's, featured in the movie "Eddie and the Cruisers." It was where Bob Dylan first heard The Band, and only slightly less important, where I used to hang out way back when. The diner there on the circle is (or at least was) pretty good.

When you go through that whole area, recall that all of it is Mudge summer territory, as well as Error Flynn and dbG territory. And possibly some of omni's old stomping grounds, too. We'll all be with you in spirit (even Eddie--he's still "out there," you know).

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 12, 2007 11:00 AM | Report abuse

I was just about to post a comment over on The Trail, really...


Posted by: Scottynuke | October 12, 2007 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Boss, we're too busy here, sling'n mustard and dropin' names.

Posted by: Don from I-270 | October 12, 2007 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Can I tirade once again on the complete chaos of the WaPo front page design? It's impossible to find anything without clicking on everything in sight. The Trail is but one little quasi-site in a huge emporium. It needs to be spun off into it's own sub-site with a distinctive style and a lot less clutter.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 12, 2007 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Joel, I think you are being too hard on yourself regarding comments on The Trail. You must realize that the high number of comments here is freakishly unusual. Just keep writing good stuff and like wildebeest to a watering hole the eyeballs shall come.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Joel, you can take the high road, or you can approach it like Coulter, another book; another insult.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Someone above mentioned Ms. Coulter. Did you catch the interview she did recently where she said that the Jews needed to be "perfected"? I don't have a link handy, but the transcript was on AOL last night. Reinforces any who think she is a bleeping wingnut of the first order.

Posted by: ebtnut | October 12, 2007 11:39 AM | Report abuse

omni, can you compare mustard and catsup?

Posted by: Casteroil | October 12, 2007 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Again, regarding registration. You can register as many times as you want so long as you supply a unique email. Set up a registration with your handle. Do NOT check "remember me on this computer." Sign in. Post your comment. Sign out. 'tis easy.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 11:45 AM | Report abuse

ebnut, it "seems" to be part of her MO whenever a book comes out. The completely outrageous statement is sure to come out to get the press to cover her.

If Hallmark needed to come up with a line of insulting cards, they only need to tap into Coulter's mind to get their material.

In the mode of "Whenever a child says they don't believe in fairies, a fairy dies" ... everytime Coulter releases a new book, you could probably count on Media Matters hiring a new employee.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Casteroil, catsup in all its forms is an abomination except one: as an ingredient in Shrimp Cocktail Sauce. But if I had my druthers I would use chili sauce instead.

Posted by: omni | October 12, 2007 11:54 AM | Report abuse

1 (6 ounce) can tomato paste
1/2 cup light corn syrup
1/2 cup white vinegar
1/4 cup water
1 tablespoon granulated sugar
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon onion powder
1/8 teaspoon garlic powder

Posted by: omni | October 12, 2007 11:58 AM | Report abuse

mix all ingredients and bring to boil, reduce heat and simmer for 20 minutes.

When I look at the ingredients for mustard and imagine making it my mouth waters. When I do the same for catsup my stomach turns.

Posted by: omni | October 12, 2007 12:02 PM | Report abuse

I wasn't reading The Trail because I was over at the New Republic reading Steven Pinker's article on "swearing." (I think that's an imprecise term for profanity or offensive speech.) Good article, though:

"...another mystery about swearing: the bizarre number of different ways in which we swear. There is cathartic swearing, as when we slice our thumb along with the bagel. There are imprecations, as when we offer advice to someone who has cut us off in traffic. There are vulgar terms for everyday things and activities, as when Bess Truman was asked to get the president to say fertilizer instead of manure and she replied, "You have no idea how long it took me to get him to say manure." There are figures of speech that put obscene words to other uses, such as the barnyard epithet for insincerity, the army acronym snafu, and the gynecological-flagellative term for uxorial dominance. And then there are the adjective-like expletives that salt the speech and split the words of soldiers, teenagers, and Irish rock-stars."

But I'm hitting the trail, now...

Posted by: kbertocci | October 12, 2007 12:06 PM | Report abuse

aren't your chili sauce and mustard recipes almost the same but swapping ground mustard and tomatoes or tomato paste?

Posted by: Casteroil | October 12, 2007 12:07 PM | Report abuse

C'mon, you can't go to Cape May without having some drinks on the boats at the Lobster House, can you?

Or one of those Schooner Dinners there, too.

Joel, I'll check out the Trail shortly...


Posted by: bc | October 12, 2007 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Joel, I echo what ScienceTim has said regarding username in the Trail. In your Two Cents if we have the option of using a name of our own choose instead of the registered name into the WaPo, I would feel much more easy in posing a response or to dare to opine.

Posted by: daiwanlan123 | October 12, 2007 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Jack, any vegetable tastes good with Thai masaman curry sauce. The little cans of paste from Maesri are good; lite coconut milk seems to work as well as regular.

Username in the Trail is indeed a problem. Of course I could re-register under my Achenblog name.

Posted by: DaveoftheCoonties | October 12, 2007 12:36 PM | Report abuse

RD-I wish it were as easy as you describe, and thought it was until I got caught in that Trail Hell not long ago. It took several reboots of the 'puter to purge my other ID.

Jack-you sound like a condimentaphobe. I grew up with a mom who will not eat mustard, mayonaise, catsup or salad dressing of any flavor. I grew up using all sparingly, if at all.

Mustard is a must though on hot dogs, as well as sweet pickle relish and onion. A good Vietnamese garlic paste is a tasty finale to the combo, but optional.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 12, 2007 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Ingredients in common: Water, vinegar, salt and sugar.

Mustard has five ingredients that catsup doesn't and catsup has 4 ingredients mustard doesn't.

Four things in common, nine things different.

How many ways do you really want this comparison broken down? I think I'm done.

Posted by: omni | October 12, 2007 12:43 PM | Report abuse

frostbitten - it shouldn't be hard as long as you don't have the 'puter remember who you are. But, of course, it might also be a function of browser settings. Mine are set on seriously paranoid.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Howdy y'all. Here I've finally mastered the Achenblog (except for linking) (and that witty sciency part) and Joel wants me to visit somewhere ELSE? Gallivanting in the wilds of the Internet. Geez. As a friend said, I have a job and a child to support.

Ah well I can at least have a look, I suppose. My powers of concentration are weak right now. For instance, I just heard a radio person announce she was playing Vivaldi's Concerto for Three Goldfish. I find the mental images thus conjured so pleasing that I don't even want to know if I heard her correctly.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 12, 2007 1:00 PM | Report abuse

You know what, while taking a walk I realized the boodle has its own Nobel Prize winner. SonofCarl. If I remember correctly he was posted in Cyprius as a Blue Helmet. The UN Peacekeeping force got the Nobel Peace prize in 1988. There yo go.
Breathing real air is much better for the brain than the thinned-out recycled stuff we are allocated in cubicle world.

Posted by: shrieking denizen | October 12, 2007 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Ivansmom - that is the seldom played companion piece to Vivaldi's Third Opus of the Plecostomus. It's part of his famous ichthiology cycle.

Hey, what can I say. I love Vivaldi.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 1:04 PM | Report abuse

The lack of a disguise (and the lack of time to set one up) stops me from posting on The Trail, so I'll post here.

It would bite my butt something fierce if my thoughts and ideas weren't discussed and dissected on their merits, but merely held up as contrary to those of my spouse. Or worse, used as some kind of proof that I wasn't being consistent with past behavior...his past behavior.


Posted by: LostInThought | October 12, 2007 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Hello All.

Drive-by boodling to say hi. I haven't had a chance to post for a while. Darn work!

Maybe next week I'll be more visible. Darn tax deadlines!

Have a good weekend and take care.

Mudge, you really cracked me up with your moose comments in the last boodle!

Posted by: Moose | October 12, 2007 1:07 PM | Report abuse

omni, ??? many chili sauce recipes resemble mustard, but w/ tomatoes. That's all. I was just pointing out why you may prefer the chili sauce version if at all.

Posted by: Casteroil | October 12, 2007 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for reminding me, RD. As I recall that Vivaldi cycle begins with the Octopus in E and ends with the ponderous Leviathan symphony.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 12, 2007 1:22 PM | Report abuse

I get it now, thanks Caster.

Posted by: omni | October 12, 2007 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Another odd quirk is that news story comments are in reverse chronological order and blog comments are sequential. Very confusing.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 12, 2007 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Is it actually possible to feel depressed while listening to Vivaldi? Seriously, no matter how dreadful I might feel,it takes just a brief infusion of "The Four Seasons" to cheer me up. If only for a while. There are several songs that do this for me including Bach's Air and "Casino Royale."

Cheaper than Zoloft, fewer side effects, and doesn't freak out the men in black.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 1:30 PM | Report abuse

RD, I had the same experience last night driving home, sky was a lovely bright azure colour, and the sun was just heading into a big grey autumn cloud. On the Radio was Pachobels Canon, even though it was not one of the best versions I had ever heard it was lovely all the same. At the time I thought to myself of Bach's Air or Vivaldi and how perfect they would have been as well.

Dave Brubecks "Take Five" also works for me.

Posted by: dmd | October 12, 2007 1:36 PM | Report abuse

The Prodigy's "Firestarter" is a good pumper-upper for me. That and Phish's "You Enjoy Myself." Sounds like the soundtrack of an opening looooong-pan shot from a really good movie to me.

Posted by: Gomer | October 12, 2007 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Yes, some pieces of music (including Vivaldi's) just revive the spirit. With some songs and pieces, the effect may depend on my mood at the time, but others always lift me up.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 12, 2007 1:54 PM | Report abuse

I'm taking notes. I might compile a CD called "music to break a blue mood."

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 1:55 PM | Report abuse

I couldn't cook without mustard, especially dijon--as part of a glaze on grilled salmon, in baked beans (!), on glazed ham, in Steak Diane, in some salad dressings. And in many dishes you'd never quite know it was there. And of course on hot dogs, hamburgers, ham-and-swiss-on-rye, pastrami-on-rye, and pretzels--why, they'd all be inedible without a glop of one type or another of mustard. Even on a cheesesteak (though not mandatory like on the others). (A piping hot Aunt Annie's pretzel WITHOUT honey-mustard dip? Qu'elle domage!!!)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 12, 2007 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I tend to agree, but there's a big difference between say, tabasco sauce with its vingeary base, and a fine chili sauce.

I refuse to touch tabasco sauce. It's lightly flavored vinegar. A fine vietnamese chili sauce, I would use over ketchup anyday.

I didn't use ketchup much growing up after I read how much salt it had. Now and then I use it on certain dishes, if I'm in the mood, but routinely eat fries plain without it.

Mustard, hot dogs, and sweet pickle relish are a culinary trinity. None of these ingredients tastes quite as good combined with anything else... except I'll admit a roast beef sandwich with mustard is very fine.

Turmeric is a wonderful spice. My friend routinely cooks Indian food with only chili, turmeric, and salt, and it turns out wonderful. Turmeric is very lightly flavored, slightly bitter and adds an "bottom" note to make dishes more robust in flavor-- helpful for vegetarian dishes. It doesn't taste like mustard.

It seems to have anti-inflammatory properties, and the heaviest turmeric eaters also have the lowest incidence of alzheimer's.
The yellow in turmeric is also the same kind of yellow in eggs-- lutein, which is key for your retinas' health and to prevent macular degeneration.

We can bicker about condiments, meanwhile Joel is worrying that his Trail post didn't cut the mustard.

As for me, I wonder how bad my take-off on Kubla Khan was...

(by the way, I liked Weremoose of Bangor... would have gone with "Big Moose of Bangor" tho).

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 12, 2007 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Condimentiphobe. That's the condition I've been enduring fro the past half century. Duh. I think I have a boodle handle. Just don't shorten it to Condi.

Posted by: jack | October 12, 2007 1:59 PM | Report abuse

In an effort to conserve resources (not sure which ones, tho), allow be to recycle a few Boodle topics:

I find it incredibly soothing to listen to the opening bars of Rush's "Xanadu," particularly the live version, while eating a hot dog with non-yellow mustard and relish, at the Balsams in Dixville Notch, N.H. (first official vote in national elections), watching a moose.


Posted by: Scottynuke | October 12, 2007 2:05 PM | Report abuse

allow me, of course...

Posted by: SCCnuke | October 12, 2007 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Please excuse me while I go bang my head against the wall...


Posted by: Scottynuke | October 12, 2007 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Seven guards and one nurse, and all found not guilty of manslaughter in the death of a boy at a boot camp in Florida. So, I guess the boy killed himself, while these folks stood around and watched. One could almost feel the hurt through the television of African-Americans standing in the courtroom. And every one had to stand around and watch this all white jury parade out the courtroom, after declaring that this young man's life counted for absolutely nothing.

The lump in my throat will not go away.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 12, 2007 2:09 PM | Report abuse

RD add Moondance by Van Morrison, always makes me want to get up and dance, then I remember I am extremely rhythmically challenged so I just enjoyed the song.

Posted by: dmd | October 12, 2007 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Bertooch, I agree with your comment on the Trail (where I now refuse to comment until I get the handle thing figured out) that the working poor need more attention than the middle class. But I think a large part of *that* problem is the difficulty of campaigning on a platform aimed at poor people: nobody wants to hear it, even if it ahppens to be true (and "right" and the "proper thing to do," etc.). And clearly, Dems especially need to counteract the Bush record of buttkissing the rich. So that leaves Hillary with no place to go *except* the middle class. (And I'm not sure where the distinction between the "working poor" and the lower end of the "middle class" is anyway.) John Edwards has been (admirably) hammering away at the Haves-and-Have-Nots issue for quite a while -- and it's gotten him pretty much zero traction.

Say what you will about politicians saying "what they think people want to hear." There's still always the conundrum about getting oneself elected. I think there may have been a small window of time when an anti-poverty campaign had some play, but I think that window closed a long time ago. (I wish it weren't so, but I'm afraid -- IMHO -- it is.)

That whole SCHIP child's insurance thing is aimed at the working poor AND the middle class--and even so it's gonna be a barnyard fight to get 60 senators to override Bush's veto. That's a measure of how sad the state of affairs is. We may not be able to get less than 40 senators to support kid's health. If ever there was a home/motherhood/apple pie issue, that ought to be it.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 12, 2007 2:13 PM | Report abuse

//I never met any Novel laureates in person, so I have nothing useful to contribute on that score. I once read James Clavell's "Noble House," if that counts for anything.//

Mudge, I feel so silly sitting here, all by myself, laughing out loud. But I sure did!

Posted by: nellie | October 12, 2007 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Jack-you would do well in the frozen north. Mr. F is just now learning, after many years, that if a menu says a sandwich comes with "lettuce, tomato, and onion" there will be no sauce-like substance on it of any kind. Catsup may be on the table, but mayonaise or mustard will have to be fetched from the kitchen-and you must always specify real mayonaise not Miracle Whip.

The boodle induced a terrible craving for a ham and mustard sandwich. I am eating from a far out of date jar of Hot Maui Onion Mustard-basically a honey onion mustard with chili. I have duplicated this discontinued favorite from our days in Hawaii in the Frostbitten Test Kitchens but what's a few years in the "best if eaten by" scheme of things?

Posted by: frostbitten | October 12, 2007 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Cassandra, I am sorry to hear the outcome of that trial, from what I remember of that story it does not seem right.

Posted by: dmd | October 12, 2007 2:17 PM | Report abuse

I went into fully cloaked mode and went over to The Trail, but then I didn't have anything to say. The ID on the test message I previewed was ok though so I will be less timid about visiting.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 12, 2007 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Thank you, Nellie.

*faxing poor Scotty a couple of Tylenol, for his head*

Scotty, I like Bonnie Raitt, Jackson Browne and Graham Nash--but reading that commentary of theirs I kept coming across problem after problem after error after bad argument. I don't blame you for headbanging.

*sigh, and a "There, there" pat on the shoulder*

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 12, 2007 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I believe a videotape of the incident was used as evidence in the trial, at least they showed it a number of times on television.

An all-White jury can never bring themselves to find their peers guilty of killing a Black person, for the simple reason, and this really isn't that simple, that life (Black person) is not seen in the same context as their own. It is lesser. It is beneath. It's value is not the same. Bottom line, it's okay. And please, if they have badge, all bets are off.

In the videotape, these guards are not wimpy or frail looking dudes. And it just begs the question, if the guards and the nurse did not play a part in the killing of this boy, why didn't they at least help him? For me, that's just as bad as the other end of the equation. They certainly did not seem to be in a hurry when moving him to the rescue vehicle. Possibly they knew he was already dead?

I am afraid of death,really afraid of it. Pray all the time for courage, but the longer I live, living seems to be gaining on death. Scary.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 12, 2007 2:37 PM | Report abuse


At least the comments below the article show people understand celebrity doesn't confer knowledge...


Posted by: Scottynuke | October 12, 2007 2:37 PM | Report abuse

ScottyNuke, sadly, the debate is sometimes dominated by people who's major exposure to the issues is having watched "The China Syndrome."

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Frosti: I miss the autumn upp North, and seeing the Northern Lights. Miracle Whip shouldn't be used as a substitute for mayonnaise. It's a salad dressing. Of course, italian dressing is used on hoagies, but that's ok only on Italian subs. Oddly enough, I'll have bleu cheese dressing with Buffalo wings. People that use ranch dressing with wings ought to be flogged. Right there at the table. I swear if ranch dressing was available at breakfast people would put it on their corn flakes. Thankfully my phobic tendancy wasn't passed to my children. They like their food ATW.

Posted by: jack | October 12, 2007 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I am sorry for your pain Cassandra. I like to think that I would always do the right thing on a jury, regardless of race.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Jack isn't the dressing that comes with the wings for the carrots and celery not the wings?

Posted by: dmd | October 12, 2007 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Jack, could you come and explain to my mom that Miracle Whip is NOT mayonaise?

I've tried to tell her for over 5 years that Hellman's is REAL mayo. I developed a phobia of mayo from a child because of Miracle Whip. It took real mayo at Subway's to help me see the light.

I loathe miracle whip-- I have a thing about dill in anything but pickles.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 12, 2007 2:49 PM | Report abuse

On the essential matter of condiments.

To me Mayo is wasted calories. It adds nothing to the culinary experience. The same for its many doppelgangers.

Catsup I like about the same as Ketchup. Which is not that much.

Mustard is my special friend. The more intense the better. Chinese encouraged to apply.

Horseradish sauces, such as cocktail sauce, are a source of great passion. My indulgence in them is limited only by my concern for social niceties.

Wasabi - even more so.

Thai curry. Oh how I swoon for thee.

And, of course, I never met a source of capsicum I didn't love. Texas Pete's my bud.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 2:50 PM | Report abuse

dmd: . . . Thank you, that's a song that can take me away from all of this today! One of my favorites.

martooni: You and yours are in my thoughts and meditation/prayers--just tie another knot at the end of your rope and hang onto it--rainbows will appear. I know because a leprechaun told me so when I was a little girl. (Close relative to fairies, right?)

Cassandra: Just keep the eyes on the prize; anything truly valuable and real isn't achieved quickly. Lots of it just means we have to get more people to wake up and be involved. Caring is difficult--you are dealing with people after all, and lots of us resemble stubborn--fill in your own adjective--people.

Scottynuke . . . I know, I know, we just have to keep trying--even if we have already "been there and done that!"

Curmudgeon: I hope you are incorrect (me--thinking you perhaps could be incorrect--who has been alive/present down through the ages) but I understand your point, quite logical, practical, and very "nuts and bolts" in the best sort of way. Some of the idealists just have to keep dreaming.

kbertocci: Over there, on "The Trail" I posted under my real name, a few entries before yours today, as I did once before when the Boss so requesred, and I think you are "spot on."

"Getting more fearless" even though I'm posting from work and have no PC at home.

Right now, I have no time to fiddle with protecting my identity by signing in and out, etc., and if this keeps up I'll be approaching *immortal/ageless/hopelessly lost in time* status take your pick much sooner than I would like.

Posted by: aroc | October 12, 2007 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Dmd, it's for the wings to help douse the spiciness. As little or as much as you like.

Bleu cheese, bleech. Given the choice I'd have ranch.

Jack should never go to a certain pizza place in Idaho I know which serves over 50 types of pizza-- including pizzas made with ranch cheese instead of pizza cheese; cheescake pizza. I found the california ranch vegetarian pizza surprisingly delicious. Sunflower seeds, broccoli, ranch... ummm....

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 12, 2007 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Cassandra said, "An all-White jury can never bring themselves to find their peers guilty of killing a Black person, for the simple reason, and this really isn't that simple, that life (Black person) is not seen in the same context as their own. It is lesser. It is beneath. It's value is not the same. Bottom line, it's okay."

Ouch, what a stinging indictment of an entire race of people. And I thought we were supposed to be working toward a prejudice-free world. Think what you will about this case or that one, and I have no details about the one you reference, but I resent your idea that all white people are out to get black people and to protect our own. That said, no jury, if it is truly "of our peers", should ever be made up of only one race, creed or color.

Posted by: Gomer | October 12, 2007 2:55 PM | Report abuse

RD, you must have better-protected olfactory bulbs than I have. I can down chili, but I can't take horseradish straight at ALL... it causes severe pain in my nose for the next 5 minutes.

I'll just pass the wasbai to you, then.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 12, 2007 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I don't really know. I think that the veggies are there because the sugars counter the capsicum RD referred to. I've always seen the wings get dunked. Consider that the recipe originated somewhere in western NYS, very possibly in a bar, and correlate that with a higher than average consumptin at the functions at which wings are served and, Voila! Someone picked up a wing, thought it was a carrot and dunked in in the bleu cheese.

Posted by: jack | October 12, 2007 2:58 PM | Report abuse

I tend to agree with Gomer on that one. Maybe it's true in your town, but it's not true everywhere.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 12, 2007 2:59 PM | Report abuse

I guess at some point we all will get to that place where living is more frightening than death. And death may become the very thing we embrace. It may become our friend. As one gets older, the body becomes weaker, and this is not something that can be hid. Older people are seen as easy prey. When you look at it really close, those on both end of the spectrum are weak and easy prey, children and old people.

I've seen cancer patients in so much pain, they were literally begging God to let them die. When I was a child, there weren't that many pain medications on the market, and the ones that were available, many of my people could not afford them. So they suffered, and suffered real bad. My great-great grandmother was in so much pain when she died, her daughter could not sit in the same room with her. There wasn't a hospice and the hospital sent us home to die.

I've probably killed the boodle. I just don't take some stuff well, maybe be quiet.

Yoki, have a good time and enjoy yourself. You too, dbg.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 12, 2007 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Scotty, I saw that CNN thing, and I feel for you, brother.

Posted on the Trail, FWIW.


Posted by: wcutt | October 12, 2007 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Mmmmmmmm, wasabi... *wiping chin* :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 12, 2007 3:03 PM | Report abuse

It's my opinion that you eat the wings as they are with out the dressing and if you need to cool down you use the celery or carrot as a dressing delivery mechanism. But I'm also of the opinion that if you can't handle the heat, you'd better stay out of Buffalo. Another opinion is Buffalo style wings should never be breaded, blech. On a more personal note I like my wings suicide style +3:1 Burn baby burn

Posted by: omni | October 12, 2007 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Could be a border thing Jack, Wings always come with carrots and celery and "sauce", not sure I have ever seen wings dipped.

Cassandra it is possible the jury did not consider the life any lesser but merely that on the charges they had to decide on could not find them defendants guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That does not make it right that they go free, I would think finding them guilty on assault would not be difficult if the jury had that opportunity.

Can they be tried again on lesser charges?

Posted by: dmd | October 12, 2007 3:04 PM | Report abuse

*donning my bus driver's hat and running to ferry the MS band kids*

Posted by: jack | October 12, 2007 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Wilbrod - you refer to this nasal pain as if it is somehow, you know a bad thing.

Yes, when it comes to strong flavors I can be a bit of a masochist. I dunno. I guess I just groove on the intensity.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Gomer, I concede your point, yet it is rare to find the opposite of what happened today in Florida. And I'm doing what those folks were doing probably, lumping it all together. Every one is not like that, and I've experienced so much of that here on the boodle. Yet there is still much to be done, so very much. And much of that work here in the South. It is all over, but it just seems to be entrenched here, and perhaps that is because so much of the history is here.

That is the very thing that we all have to work on, not lumping every one in the same box. I do it, and we all, at some point do it. And it's hard not to when you see an all-White jury doing these kinds of things. We will never let it go, we just move on from one thing to another, doing what we do, the same way, the same outcome. Somewhere it has to stop. I try, I really do, but sometimes the hurt is so great, so deep, that it touches a hurt already there from somewhere long ago, and I am back at square one. I am being honest, and in being honest, I am naked, but I never cared for a lot of clothes anyway.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 12, 2007 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Of course, I met my capsicum Waterloo with Buffalo Wings. An alleged friend made some with these peppers called "Habaneros." I should have been worried when the sauce was orange.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 3:10 PM | Report abuse

dmd, I've seen wings dipped and that has awlays confused me. I mean why not just order the Chicken Caesar Salad

Posted by: omni | October 12, 2007 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Habanero peppers: 200,000 and 300,000 Scoville units
Cayenne peppers: 40,000 to 90,000 Scoville units

Posted by: omni | October 12, 2007 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Actually, I once raised Habaneros. I referred to it as the garden of pain.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 3:19 PM | Report abuse

RD, being the pointy-head(no offense intended) that you are, I would never think that of you. I believe you would be looking for facts, evidence, etc.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 12, 2007 3:20 PM | Report abuse

You Wings folks might find the Wikipedia entry interesting (as I did):

Cassandra, I can certainly understand where you're coming from, and I think what you said about all-white juries certainly used to be quite true, at least in your region of the country. And even now, in certain places and in certain cases, it might have some truth to it. I confess I don't know anything about the Florida case, so don't have an opinion one way or the other. (And whoever said there's no excuse for an "all-white" jury in any place but, say, North Dakota, in this day and age is quite right.)

But I know where you're coming from, and in if I was in your shoes, I'd probably agree with you.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 12, 2007 3:20 PM | Report abuse

I remember years ago, about 1987 or so, a friend and I going out for drinks and insisting we go to hooters. The wings then came mild,medium,hot or TMI (Three Mile Island). I got the TMI and the waitress couldn't believe it. Now it seems they've added three more since then: 911,cajun and samorai.

First time in SoCal I stopped into specifically get their wings. The bartender looked at me funny when I said I wanted TMI wings. I clarified by saying the hottest Buffalo style wings you got. They served breaded fried chicken wings drowned in tobasco sauce. It was disgusting. Turns out not all chains are the same I guess...

The only time I've had better than TMI was when I made them my self on the grill.

Posted by: omni | October 12, 2007 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Off to Philly, have a great weekend all.

Posted by: dmd | October 12, 2007 3:29 PM | Report abuse

oh, and technically I didn't really do Buffalo style as I used ground cayenne pepper but no butter. But they were closer to Buffalo style than that SoCal carp.

Oops, time for me to run for the train, then a skip for the bus and couple of hops home.

Posted by: omni | October 12, 2007 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Have a great time, dmd, and pass my regards to everybody.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 12, 2007 3:32 PM | Report abuse

RD, for me, it's 9 out of a scale of 10, even with cocktail sauce that's just a bit short on the ketchup. It's not like chili pain at all. Haberneros are easier for me to eat than horseradish.

Interestingly, I just found out horseradish IS contraindicted for my health conditions. I'm not sure why yet.

Capsicum, I easily build up immunity to. At one point I was eating curry like it was water, so I detoxed until I could once again appreciate the bite of chili. By now I may have detoxed enough that my palate is wussy.

By the way, Researchers at M.I.T. claim that the enzyme "horseradish peroxidase" removes a number of pollutants from waste water.

It's been used medically to help treat many conditions, as well as being used as an early form of ben-gay by the Greeks.

However, it is contraindicted for many health issues, and can be poisonous in excess.

Speaking of pain, TRPA1 is activated by horseradish. Congential defect in this can lead to serious pain insensitivity and deafness.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 12, 2007 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Not sure if we've already done this quiz:>1=10488


Couldn't recall how long the Articles of Confederation lasted...


Posted by: Scottynuke | October 12, 2007 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Wilbrod - That's interesting about you and the horseradish. Even the straight ground-up "Amish Style" stuff does little more to my than clear my sinuses. It is entirely possible that I simply can't taste certain food chemicals as much as do some folks. Sort of like why I love Brussel's sprouts while my wife considers them a violation of international law.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 3:40 PM | Report abuse

dmd, have a great time, and in answer to your question about a lesser charge, I'm not sure about that. And thank you. Tell every one hello, and have a ball.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 12, 2007 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Cassandra - Why yes, I am terribly proud of my pointy head. Hope the weekend brings you something to smile about.

Indeed, a great weekend to everyone.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Hooray! I'm enttitled to citizenship. 11/11.

Posted by: ScienceTim | October 12, 2007 3:46 PM | Report abuse

RD, I had to laugh, and thank you for that, at your reference about brussel sprouts. I like them too, and your wife's description of them is funny.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 12, 2007 3:50 PM | Report abuse

11/11 on the Citizenship test

I am a a buffalo wing dipper and my wife is a celery stick dipper. If we are sharing a bleu cheese she will make me spoon it onto the wings so that the hot sauce does not contaminate the bleu cheese.

Only bleu cheese can be served with Buffalo wings. Chicken fingers and other breaded poppers can be served with ranch or marinara.

I invoke Weingartenian absolutism on these rules.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 12, 2007 3:52 PM | Report abuse

The g-girl is gone. On her way to see her mother. I'm out of here. Have to run on an errand. Have a great weekend folks. And yes, RD, the fact that I am here alone will make me smile. I can do absolutely nothing. And for this tired frame, that sounds fabulous.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 12, 2007 3:54 PM | Report abuse

I go for a walk and come back to find such spicy chat!

11/11 on the quiz. I think we may have done this one before.

Sounds like the prosecutor didn't do an adequate job, Cassandra. There is such a thing as district attorney incompetence. That's no excuse, of course.

You folks have a good time in Philadelphia!

Posted by: Slyness | October 12, 2007 3:55 PM | Report abuse


I meant no offense, and I am certain that your american experience has taken many different roads from mine. The pervasive racism of the south is indisputable, but there are those of us out here trying to make it better.

To the boodle, I like wasabi, especially when the sushi chef hides some under a piece of sushi.

Wasabi surprise!

Posted by: Gomer | October 12, 2007 3:57 PM | Report abuse

I like brussel sprouts-- properly done. Broccoli, mustard, etc. is fine.

I am also prone to olfactory migraines and pain from other causes, so maybe there's something else going on for me.

By the way, TRPA1 is not triggered by capsicum-- chili trigger TRPV1 (aka V1) channels instead, which detect heat and pain, hence the feeling of heat and pain.

Menthol (mouthwash or ben-gay) trigger the TRPM8 channel, which control cold and pain sensation.

Of course, we don't know how those receptors are heat-sensitive; we do know they work to gate various ions such as magnesium or calcium, and they have a certain complex configuration in the cell membrane that is like a big spring or accordion.

It's easy, looking at a diagram to visualize if the cell was warmer, the capiscum receptors might stretch, opening up to gate more ions in, and that a capsicum molecule may well "jimmy" the channel open as well.

Pain is still not well understood, but dying cells explode and often release ions and other factors in the extracellular membrane. This is thought to perhaps activate pain receptors in healthy cells.

Thus it is possible a lower overall body temperature would by nature make TPRMV1 receptors less sensitive (because of an altered matrix), and the cold receptors thus more sensitive.

I don't know what affects TPRA1, if anything. I still don't know if there's anything that neutralizes horseradish. Fat?

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 12, 2007 3:58 PM | Report abuse

From the Tallahassee Democrat:

"Six jurors cleared the seven former Bay County juvenile boot camp drill instructors and a camp nurse not responsible for the 14-year-old boy's death. They were seen on a video kicking, kneeing and punching the boy, but the defense proved he died from a benign blood disorder, sickle-cell trait, not by the guards' actions.

"The case has been racially charged since five of the defendants were white, two black and one Asian.

"The prosecution had one medical examiner testify Anderson died from suffocation, while another disagreed and said the boy died from lack of oxygen."

I have no idea how any prosecutor let an all-white jury get seated, but the defendants clearly had the better lawyers.

Maryland had a series of youth offender boot camps. I'm not sure why treatment that would raise eyebrows at Gitmo is considered therapeutic on minors. Clearly boot camp style centers for youthful offenders do more harm than good.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 12, 2007 4:05 PM | Report abuse

As a teacher of "bad kids" in alternative programs, and veteran, I've always felt boot camp style programs were both misguided and misnamed. First of all, boot camp is not about humiliation, fear, or even all that intense a physical work out. It is about team building and working toward a common goal. When a soldier leaves basic training he/she then goes on to further training and a unit which continues to build on good things basic started. Periodic scandals (and our current goat rope) aside, this works pretty well and I believe a big reason it does is because it is just the first 8 weeks of a long period of training and support. Juvenile "boot camps" on the other hand are supposed to change a kid's outlook in a short period without replacing the former motivation to act badly with a greater goal. I've always been concerned that at best they just give already charismatic thugs some additional leadership skills, at worst they kill kids.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 12, 2007 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Mudge-even a North Dakota jury should include an American Indian or Latino.

Speaking of race, in our fair city we seem to be making headway in doing just that, I mean speaking about race. Our racial divide is between American Indians and whites, is a mile wide and a mile deep, and very painful. However, the chair of the Local Indian Council and I have made crossing the divide an explicit part of our respective way of doing business. It has taken us a solid year+ but we are finding others who are tired of it and ready to do something about it. I expect it will take us another year+ for some influential folks in our area to even acknowledge the problem. They have a big surprise coming if they think we're just going to give up.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 12, 2007 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Good for you, Frosti! And good luck with your endeavors.

Posted by: Slyness | October 12, 2007 5:21 PM | Report abuse

SciTim, you might want to read the following--it is poorly written, but it gets the point across--and then consider again WAPO's pictures of Al Gore.

Note that there is also a front-page article questioning the information presented in "An Inconvenient Truth". There are unrelenting penalties for not drinking the kool-aid, not joining the pod-people, when up is down and right is wrong.

Cassandra, continue to believe in the songs of innocence, even as we live the songs of experience. You know where solace lies; use it.

For the rest of you: "Laughing Song"

When the green woods laugh with the voice of joy,
And the dimpling stream runs laughing by;
When the air does laugh with our merry wit,
And the green hill laughs with the noise of it;

When the meadows laugh with lively green,
And the grasshopper laughs in the merry scene,
When Mary and Susan and Emily
With their sweet round mouths sing "Ha, ha he!"

When the painted birds laugh in the shade,
Where our table with cherries and nuts is spread:
Come live, and be merry, and join with me,
To sing the sweet chorus of "Ha, ha, he!"

Hah! And you thought Cass was depressed!

Posted by: MedallionOfFerret | October 12, 2007 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Who knows if the prosecution sunk the case by murder as opposed to manslaughter? I say guilty of manslaughter and aggravated assault.

Habaneros have a distinctive and delicious flavor but that flavor does not go well with many foods. There is at least one habanero mustard on the specialty market and it is really, truly delicious, as well as hot as hot can be. On sausages one approaches Nirvana, if heat be appreciated.

Chicken barbecue sauces also go with the flavor of habanero. I think habanero is totally wrong on beef.

Original Tabasco is the only hot sauce I know of aged in oak barrels and it indeed has a strong taste of white oak. It should be used only if this flavor is sympathetic to the rest of the dish.

I'm starting to think that anything commonly eaten with ketchup or mustard would, if dipped in a sauce of vinegar, salt, sugar, and onion powder, taste just as good.

And whatever happened to Dixville Notch?

Posted by: Probationboy | October 12, 2007 6:18 PM | Report abuse

The "Fact Checker" column on the WaPo home page spells out the 9 "errors". There is one on which I disagree with the judge (about the inundation of Pacific atolls), and 3 (I think) on which I would judge Gore's statement to be somewhat exaggerated but within the reasonable bounds of compelling speech. That leaves 5 in dispute. I agree with the judge that they are a bit overstated. Unfortunately, this puts us in this position in which childish disputants will find a lone error sticking up from an ocean of accuracy and claim that the lone error invalidates all the rest.

Posted by: ScienceTim | October 12, 2007 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Tim, I looked at that column today (the fact checker). All I can say is that what we are now, this year, finding as alarming, as I am told, would not have been concieved of last year.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 12, 2007 6:44 PM | Report abuse

I went to a leadership camp that was run boot-camp style-- no verbal abuse, just calisthenics and a grinding schedule. The worst was that I was sleep-deprived for nearly a month, which I do think triggered my autoimmune disorder. I slept for a month afterwards. We had a camper go home after she got back spasms on a swimming test. Another came in already depressed, but she seemed to get into the camp as best as she could.

Sickle cell trait is NOT inherently lethal.

However, I would like to see more people understanding that teenagers have physical needs that won't be solved by yelling at them. A sulky, ill-attituded kid may be depressed, sick, or hurt.

I do believe the "whip them in shape mentality" as Frostbitten says, leads to thuggery rather than honest leadership. None of us went there because we were considered "problem kids"-- but rather, we were there to learn some things about leadership and survival.

Even then, it could have been done better. I completely believe that. My parents weren't pleased with some of the things that weren't disclosed to them as part of the camp program.

If more parents demanded full disclosure from those programs, maybe camps would improve.

In any case, dying from a disablity that was aggravated by the actions of a camp that were intended to take care of the child's welfare is reprehensible. Under normal circumstances, this child would not have died if he was at home and allowed to back off from overexertion and save face as well.

Teens are very vulnerable to peer pressure. All it takes is a desire to be one of the group.

If the camp lacked full knowledge of the disability, that's one thing. Yet, I could still see a lawsuit if the answer to the following questions were "no": Did the camp have a nurse? Was there any meaningful oversight of the children's health and safety? Was there procedures in place for a teenager to get help immediately if he was overheating?

However it could be that nobody knew he had sickle cell trait. A few deaths have occured in Air Force training in otherwise apparently healthy men, according to this... this is how sickle cell trait was first found to put youths at risk of death.

"The risk of exercise-related death for sickle cell trait was 28-fold." But that was 41 exercise-induced deaths in 37,300 recruits, or around 1 in 3,000.

It's still not common, and mortality risk actually increases with age, so for a younger person, the risk would be lower. The calculated risk was 1 death per 60 to 90,000 person-hours of exercise.

This is much higher than for middle-aged distance runners, but not certain.

"Non-sudden exertional heat illness deaths and idiopathic sudden death each accounted for about one-third of Exercise-related death."
In other words, watching exercise in hot weather would cut risk by at least 1/3.

Moreso, it was observed in their survey that at least two-thirds of all sudden deaths occured under conditions of high risk for extreme heat illness... even if it was under temperatures considered safe enough (hot summer day, but early morning when cooler).

They tested this hypothesis about heat by implementing new protocols. The preliminary study showed that the control group had the same death rate as predicted, while the new, more cautious protocols resulted in zero sudden exercise-related deaths... down from a high of 15.

In short, there is no excuse for blaming an hidden genetic disorder for a sudden death.

Here's what it said:
"Important risk factors for Extreme heat illness which have been associated with ERD (exercise-related death) of young adults with sickle cell trait include inadequate hydration, environmental heat stress with a WBGT of at least 75ûF during the preceding 24 hours (18), heat retaining clothing, sustained heroic effort above customary activity, incomplete acclimation to heat, obesity with poor exercise fitness (22), inadequate sleep, and delay in recognition and treatment of EHI."

All factors which a "vigorous boot camp" can easily involve-- and also prevent. Teenagers need 10 hours of sleep a night, not less than 8.

I can see it was probably luck my camp didn't have such a death on its hands. Although they did have a nurse who was very watchful for signs of heat-caused illness, and we didn't exercise in excess heat at all-- morning temps were 60 degrees, ample hydration was not always available at hand, and sleep was in short supply, and exercise was quickly ramped up.

I don't think it was overt murder or manslaughter, but if I was the boy's family, sue the rectums off the boot camp designers and runners... and make sure everybody running a boot camp has awareness of this.

There are other ways to build a positive experience for an surly teen than exercising or overheating them.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 12, 2007 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Wow, I can't believe I forgot the URL I was summarizing from.

And yes, the boy could have overheated from the assault in a hot room.

A german shepherd once died from being alpha rolled and pinned down for a hour-- the poor dog overheated because of the high level of adrenaline and fear aggression. He was muzzled so he couldn't pant.
Guess what, the trainer was ordered in to "fix" the dog's aggression caused by the family basically tying the dog up and not socializing the dog in the first place. The family was upset-- and adopted another german shepherd puppy. The trainer was upset about it... but blamed the dog for being fear aggressive, etc.

Her words made her choice all the more inexcusable to me. The case didn't go to trial.

One wonders if the family learned from the experience to say, TRAIN and socialize their new puppy?

Likewise... RAISE your kids. A boot camp won't fix mistakes overnight. If anybody is promoting a technique to "fix a kid" they MUST take responsibility for damages and deaths caused by that technique or program that would not have occured otherwise.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 12, 2007 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Congress held hearings about the youth "boot camps" last week. My heart goes out to families that have lost a child in that way - can you imagine the guilt they must feel for putting their child through such a thing? I bet it weighs on the counselors, or whatever they're called, too - even if they're acquitted, it cannot be an easy thing to deal with the rest of your life.

Tim, I have to say that knowing Carol Kaye ups your "cool" quotient by magnitudes. As if it wasn't already way up there because you're an astrophysicist *and* a storyteller!

Are there breadcrumbs to the Trail?

Posted by: mostlylurking | October 12, 2007 7:29 PM | Report abuse

I'm just back from viewing George Clooney's (and others)film Michael Clayton. Damn the lack of italics! It's good to see a grown up movie. I enjoyed it (especially George).

Cassandra and others, if you haven't read Ernest Gaines A Lesson Before Dying, you should. It's great and illuminating and affirmative.

Posted by: Maggie O'D | October 12, 2007 7:45 PM | Report abuse

Very tired from a long week, so here are a few waves:

RD, I, too, am in the fondness-for-brussels-sprouts club. Shall we share call a meeting, sharing a steamer or two with drawn butter, white pepper and a soupcon of horseradish?

Cassandra, I feel very sad about that boy: the circumstances do seem bad from the event to the trial outcome. God bless his family in this ordeal of grief, loss, and wild pain.

Frosti -- glad on what you say. The crucible I grew up in included tribal and white people. I did not see a black person besides Charley Pride until I was 19 years old. The tribal stories have not been told, and yet they are deeply ingrained in our past and present. Whenever white people consider their pedigree and history against the shame of slavery, I know that my family did not live here yet. So that is not my personal inventory of collective ancestral conscience. HOWEVER, my immigrant family beginning in 1867 and peaking in 1882-1890 homesteaded out west on land that was primarily Lakota holdings. So, I know that my family benefits still from the largest "takings" of land by crook, deceit and conceit, sleight-of-hand, and the misunderstood banality of evil within all of us.

Posted by: College Parkian | October 12, 2007 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Frosti, I think it's wonderful the things you are doing to close that gap. It takes guts and determination, and you certainly don't seem to lack either.

Gomer, not offended. We have to talk, and talk honest. If we offend, we apologize, but we keep talking. Honest conversation can hurt, on both sides, but anything less isn't worth the air needed to blow it out. Racism is still very much a part of the American experience. It's not as bad as it has been, but there is certainly room for improvement. The generation coming up will probably do better than old timers like me. When I decided to go back to school while my children were in school, that was my first experience going to school with a mixed population. It was so hard for me. And not because of the young people, but because of me. Here I was going to school with children wherein more than likely I had worked for their grandparents or maybe their parents cleaning their homes or working in their fields. For me, it felt odd and uncomfortable because of my history. I went to segregated schools and there was a different feel to that experience.

I haven't talked on the boodle at night in a long time. I am so sleepy, boodle. I think it is night, night for me. I hope all of you have a good weekend, and enjoy your families, get some rest, and last, but not least, give God some of your time.

Where is Loomis? And martooni? Slyness, are you a race fan? I never could get into that. Looking at cars going around in a circle just does not do it for me.

I am glad Al Gore encouraged us to think about global warming and the environment. I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. I'm pretty sure those folks that are making money will continue to make money, even while the planet burns someone will make a profit. If they can do it in war and killing, I'm pretty sure it can be done in stagnant and polluted air. Now if the planet starts to flood and water is every where, all bets are off.

I wish I could tell a joke, so you folks don't think I'm gloom and doom all the time. I know some of you are saying, get that woman some meds. I am not gifted with the jokes. I did tell a joke the other morning about myself. You know the one about the elephant with the robe on? I didn't get one hit, not one. Hey, if I can't laugh at myself sometimes, meds wouldn't help. I would need shock treatment!

Sweet dreams, boodle. Now if I can just slide off this chair, and slide in my bed. Doesn't look promising.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 12, 2007 8:34 PM | Report abuse

Cassandra, thank you for that wonderful post. I was raised in a region without many black people. I will not say it was white, because it contained many Asians and American Indians. This includes my first great love, a girl of Filipino extraction to whom I would have gladly devoted my life. Of course, we were seven at the time. But I digress.

I was raised on a steady diet of Sidney Poitier movies and the "black saint" image prevalent in the 60s and 70s. I developed an idealized version of black people, few of whom I actually met until I was in college. I worked as a tutor for the black student union, as I did as a graduate student.

I gradually began to develop a realistic picture of black people. I began to see them as individuals. Some good. Some not. The hardest thing for me to do was to dislike a black person and realize that it wasn't because he was black, but because he was a jerk who happened to be black.

And of course, when I moved to the multiracial world that is Northern Virginia, the whole notion of a universal black and white identity faded.

And today, as difficult as it may be to believe, I sometimes fail to notice anymore who is black and who is white. I see it, of course, but it no longer seems significant compared to other features.

Such as the content of their character.

I just hope they judge me the same way.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 9:32 PM | Report abuse

CP - oh you temptress you. Drawn Butter. White pepper. Horseradish.

I, I, I feel so faint.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 9:37 PM | Report abuse

I think I'm going to have to reluctantly join the "club" a couple others of you on the Boodle are going through: impending deaths in the family.

When we were driving home from Martha's Vineyard last week, we had intended to stop in Pennsylvania and visit my aunt (father's side, his younger sister), who is 92. She lives with her youngest son, my cousin Tom. When we called to say we'd like to stop by, we learned that Tom was recently diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, metastasized. At the last minute, Tom's wife called and said he wasn't feeling good and asked if we could postpone the visit. So we did.

When I got home tonight there was a phone call from my Uncle Marty (mother's side, her younger brother). He's 80, and called to say he has lung cancer caused by asbestos, and (though he didn't say it) doesn't have long to live--he's already on Tylenol III with codeine, etc., and getting hospice care. We had a nice long talk, and we're going to go up and visit him a week from tomorrow. His wife (who is 85) has had a pacemaker for the past 11 years, and the battery has run out; she's having a new one put in on Monday.

So it's a race to see who dies first: my cousin on one side of the family (who doesn't want to die), or my uncle on the other side (who is happy and at peace and says he's quite ready to go), with my 92-year-old aunt and my uncle's 85-year-old wife also in the running after the first two go.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 12, 2007 9:42 PM | Report abuse

Exyhaustion does not begin to describe. Husband and I off the plane late this afternoon from San Diego/Oceanside. Highlight of this return flight was having Eric Swansson (with two s's), 81, born on July 4, 1926 (and proud of it) seated to my right. He formerly was a payload integration engineer with Rockwell and worked on the first manned space flight to the moon (1969, Apollo 11).

Of spreading my mother's ashes at sea? I hate to say this, but the ocean motion caused much commotion--to my husband's stomach.

Posted by: Loomis | October 12, 2007 9:44 PM | Report abuse

Oh Mudge, how difficult it mus be to have so many so close to the end. Those I have lost have always been considerate enough to spread themselves out. But I am confident you will find the strength to weather these losses. I get the feeling you can be pretty darn tough when needed.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 9:50 PM | Report abuse

About socializing dogs, which Wilbrod spoke of earlier: While walking My Little Poodle©, a woman walked down to us with two of those naked Chinese dogs whose full name escapes me. They wanted to meet my dog. We let the dogs meet. One of the Chinese dogs snapped right in the face of My Little Poodle©, causing him such distress that he fell on to his back. Flat. Or sort of flat, all his feet were in the air.

Chinese dog owner says, "*My* dogs aren't socialized."

Oh, really? I never would have noticed!

Posted by: nellie | October 12, 2007 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Off to bed for me. On the morrow we are taking part in the annual community yard sale. It is scheduled to start at 8AM, although I suspect the "early birds" are parked out in front even now.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 12, 2007 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Welcome back, Loomis.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 12, 2007 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Red Sox Win!!!!

although it was scary at the end.

Posted by: Maggie O'D | October 12, 2007 10:48 PM | Report abuse

RD... I'm planning to have a yard sale next weekend. Good luck with yours.

I wish I could stop by and see what the Padouk household is getting rid of tomorrow, but I am picking up Lost Boodler Mo in the morning and we are heading up I-95 to the Philly BPH.

Posted by: TBG | October 12, 2007 11:09 PM | Report abuse

At least she didn't claim her dogs liked to be alpha. That's the story I got from the owner of a Chessie that snapped at my dog at a greet.

Wilbrodog thinks that dog was just a touchy cuss.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 12, 2007 11:16 PM | Report abuse

cassandra, you may not be funny in the witty, tell-a-joke type of way, but i often smile at the things you write. i thought this was priceless:
>I am being honest, and in being honest, I am naked, but I never cared for a lot of clothes anyway.

mudge, sorry to hear about your relatives. i hope you get to have some quality time with them.

have a good weekend everyone.

Posted by: L.A. lurker | October 12, 2007 11:27 PM | Report abuse

TBG, I thought you were lost too! I know you all will have a bodacious, boodlin' time this weekend.

Posted by: mostlylurking | October 12, 2007 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Cassandra is a woman of many humors ;).

Telling a joke is one thing; coming up with snappy comebacks is another. The humor of life's ironies is the best type of humor to have.

So, a rhino in a kilt and sporran walks into a bar...

But seriously folks, I wanted to call your attention to why we have gut cravings for chocolate.;_ylt=AgpMM2od.OR7hb3RnzMsNzAR.3QA

This actually makes a lot of sense. I go through quite a few periods where I could care less about chocolate. Glad to know it may be just a gutsy move on my part, not hormones.

This raises disturbing questions about the origin of horseradish mania, of course, since it is known to nuke quite a few types of bugs.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 12, 2007 11:34 PM | Report abuse

Cassandra - what a wonderful post to Gomer. As far as the acquittal in the death of the boy at boot camp goes, I don't know the details, but I had to recoil at the description of the sickle cell disorder as a "benign" blood disorder. That's a serious misnomer if I've ever heard one.

Maggie - I went to see Michael Clayton tonight as well. The hubby and I really enjoyed it...George Clooney gets better and better. Sidney Pollack hits just the right note as the amoral-SOB-masquerading-as-elder-statesman type.
I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of "A Lesson Before Dying." What a wonderful book. After I saw the HBO presentation with Don Cheadle (who is the best of the best!) I went back and read it again...even better.

PLS - Our former babysitter is awaiting her VA Bar results as well. I hope you will both have good news soon. The hubby and I were chatting about our former babysitter and the fact that she's sweating it out and we were reminiscing about the day we found out he passed the bar. I arrived home before he did and knew exactly what was in THAT envelope. This was before cell phones, so there was no way to let him know that IT had arrived. I sat on the steps of our condo on George Mason Blvd and I can still see his face as he drove up and saw me sitting there! He passed and we proceeded to fire up the blender. We still fire up the blender when good news comes our way. Well, now that I mention it, we fire up the blender when bad news comes our way as well.

Posted by: Kim | October 13, 2007 1:19 AM | Report abuse

Oh and...Mudge, I am sorry to hear all of that bad news...hang in there.

Wilbron - I am "immune" to chocolate's allure. Unfortunately, I am not immune to enchiladas, potato salad, bacon and cheese omelettes, etc....

Posted by: Kim | October 13, 2007 1:32 AM | Report abuse

SCC - WilbroD!

Posted by: Kim | October 13, 2007 1:33 AM | Report abuse

'Mudge, I'm very sorry to hear that. The inevitable is never easy, especially when it arrives abruptly.


Maggie O'D, I'd say the 9th was more aggravating than scary. Those Rockies just keep rolling, too. Must be all that potential energy from getting a start a mile high.

*glad-to-have-a-real-fall-morning weekend Grover waves*


Posted by: Scottynuke | October 13, 2007 5:19 AM | Report abuse

'morning all. yeah Mudge, there are periods like this when uncles-older cousins and other elderly relatives seem to disappear en masse. We had a period like that last year and it caused much melancholy, even if the average age of the defunct was well above 80. Makes you feel your own mortality I guess.
On the other hand Fall is upon us, finally. First hard frost of the season. First frost as a matter of fact. Got to walk the Puppy now.

Posted by: shrieking denizen | October 13, 2007 6:25 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, friends. I am so sorry, Loomis, evidently I missed the post about your mother passing. I am truly sorry. And welcome back.

Mudge, it seems you have a full plate. Prayers for you and your family. And you know we love you so very much.

RD, that was a lovely post about you and your experience. Thank you.

wilbrod and kim, thanks a bunch.

It is chilly here, just the perfect fall weather. It warms up during the day, and the day is so bright. I love the fall of the year with all those colors and the crispness in the air. A sweater and a pair of socks feel so good in the morning. And the air is cool and just softly kisses one on the cheek. The coffee is warm, and one feels so snuggly.

TBG, and Ivansmom, where are you guys? I hope not hiding out. Maybe on vacation? Vacations are good. Not that I speak from experience, but they sure sound nice.

Enjoy your weekend, my friends. Hopefully, I can check in later.

Morning, Scotty, Slyness, and all.*waving*

God loves us so much more than we can imagine through Him that died for all, Jesus Christ.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 13, 2007 6:36 AM | Report abuse

thanks la lurker.

And TBG, I missed you. Went back and read your post. Have a good time.

RD, I wish I could be at your yard sale. Enjoy.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 13, 2007 6:44 AM | Report abuse

Morning, everybody. Hey, Cassandra.

I missed a lot last night on the boodle, as I was engrossed in The Other Boleyn Girl. A good friend loaned it to me a year ago, and I finally got around to reading it. Not a bad book, although it was interesting to check out Wikipedia and see the licenses the author took with history.

No, Cassandra, I'm not a race fan. I'm not much into sports anyway, and watching cars go fast around an oval just doesn't appeal to me. In this part of the world, though, there is so much NASCAR that it seeps into one's consciousness regardless.

Loomis, good to hear that you made it home. I'm sure the trip was emotionally exhausting. Rest up and feel better.

Mudge, I'm sorry to hear that you anticipate so many funerals in your family. That's the price we pay for having relatives, I guess. Tough sometimes.

Posted by: Slyness | October 13, 2007 7:44 AM | Report abuse

Good morning Cassandra, mostlylurking and others who may have missed me. I've been here, but mostly enjoying the company of Son of G, who arrived on the train Thursday morning with GF of Son of G. We've been on a whirlwind of activity since.

Before that, I was moving stuff from room to room as the painters transformed my home. It's wonderful to have so much color around me and I walk around my house with a smile on my face.

Yesterday we picked up an old '50s Magnavox TV I found on eBay that we proceeded to refurbish and re-equip with a cheapo Wal-Mart TV that fits nicely into the old cabinet. A fun project to do with the boy and quite a retro find. It will look great with my chartreuse panther TV lamp on top; we'll have to keep it tuned to TV Land to keep up appearances.

I'm having fun with Son of G, but will leave him to enjoy the company of his friends who are also in town as I take off for 24 hours for the Philly BPH. I'll be back on Sunday in time for an early dinner and then a ride to the train station.

I'm content to know that he's happy at school, but also very happy to be home. I think I may have done my job right to some extent. (He's also doing quite well in his classes; he's been waiting for college all his life I believe.)

Enjoy this beautiful fall day everyone! But please tell me I don't have to give up the flip-flops just yet.

Oh... PLS... I'm waiting anxiously for your news, too. Make sure you let us know what happens! It's nice to have so many great legal minds in this group. I think it fills it out nicely, don't you all?

Posted by: TBG | October 13, 2007 7:48 AM | Report abuse

Here's a heartbreaking opinion piece by a public servant who has clearly "had it up to here."

Posted by: TBG | October 13, 2007 7:55 AM | Report abuse

'Morning, Boodle. Wish I could up there in Philly with you guys today.

Scotty, here another opinion piece by a public servant who has clearly had it "up to here." With this one, though, why didn't he say some of this in, say, 2003?

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 13, 2007 8:16 AM | Report abuse

CP-your post about the racial issues from your home made me laugh and cry both. My Grandma Frostbitten was a devoted Charley Pride fan and I nearly choked on my lunch in a Montgomery, Alabama restaurant when she stopped a handsome young man to ask if people ever mistook him for Charley Pride. There was a resemblance, but she was heading very quickly into "they all look alike" territory. The deed of sale to my beloved home place was signed by GreatPa Frostbitten (who couldn't read English) and with an X by an Ojibwe man who couldn't read. GreatPa's only advantage in the transaction was the color of his skin, but it was powerful enough. What allows me to stay is knowing the land was paid for, and not for the pittance the logging companies were forcing people of all backgrounds to take (with the help of the state government). I wonder if I would be willing to give it up if I knew the land had been taken. The pull of family roots, and a place I believe to be the most beautiful on earth, is very strong- and I'm no saint. If I were more self reflective I might seek the help of psychology or religion to figure it all out.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 13, 2007 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Frosti, Charley Pride lived not too far from us, and he remains, with Marion Anderson (we had two long play albums) and Sidney Portier as my black/white experience as a child. We did not have a TV until the mid seventies, so I did not watch the civil rights images. The tribal presence in our town was so mixed, which is very much the tribal story. Many tribal people were part French Canadian, so some of these families appeared as very"other," because of the language; however, for me, the nuns who ran our school were Francophone nuns, originally from Quebec, who were "stationed" on the wide prairie of Sask. Canada. These nuns were further in mission-mode to our mining side of town, and served a motley of families: Irish, Bohunk (Czech, primarily), Slovak, Litvak, etc. The setting of the Deer Hunter quite captures this community, however, move them west and have them mine and smelt copper, rather than working steel.

The tribal story that was most close to my childhood concerns a small band of Kootenai Indians, neither settled with Canada or the US. They are land-less, treaty-less, and remain a very human reminder of the arbitrariness of borders. Children from this tribe lived with these nuns and attended school with us. I know that many of them went through high school right to Carroll College locally and Gonzaga in Eastern Washington.

The other interesting note here is some association by friendship and now marriage to people of the Crow Nation. Some Crow people bristle within tribal circles about being thought to be sell-outs to the U.S. Military...some of that rancor continues. I have mixed feelings about the new museum in DC. None of my contacts likes the facility, saying that there are too many "sales" thingies going on. I believe, also, that inter-tribal rivalries and resentment rise up here, too.

During the first months of the war in Iraq, I recall a panel of wounded soldiers speaking from Landstuhl, I believe. I was struck by the face of one young soldier, obviously Indian of some mix and type. This reminded me instantly of the long tradition of military service by tribal people. The Navajo Code-Talker story is only one case.

Posted by: College Parkian | October 13, 2007 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Is it broken?

Posted by: Maggie O'D | October 13, 2007 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Good afternoon, Boodle.

Been busy last night and today, last night at a going-away bash for a friend who's taking early retirement, today fetching some car parts for one of the Chariots (going to replace the cylinder head and head gasket) then repairing a broken gas grill, up on the roof to clean out the wood stove chimney, then cleaned the upstairs of the house (I have a friend coming from out of town, and we're going to watch the ALCS game tonight with more friends), and got a wild hair to go out back to harvest the last of the summer's grapes (they're *delicious*). Going to run out to the store shortly to pick up some supplies...

I wish I could have made the Philly BPH, but there's too much going on now for me down here...

Mudge, very I'm sorry to hear about your family news, my friend.

Cassandra, I appreciate your candid thoughts on race in this country, and your willingness to listen to points of view different from your own. The racism you see is different from the racism I see, and we all carry our own perspectives, and as many here in the Boodle do, I try to consider individuals their merits, regardless of their ethnic or social backgrounds or personal situations.

I try not to paint anyone with the broad brush of race or ethnicity, you miss too much of the important details of the individual that way.


Posted by: bc | October 13, 2007 1:40 PM | Report abuse

I'm also sad I couldn't make the Philly BPH... :-(

'Mudge, I can't really get into Sanchez's mind, but I do have the feeling he was occupied with more pressing matters at that point. *SIGHHHHHHHHH*

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 13, 2007 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Golly, I miss a day and things get interesting. I'm happy to report that I've had two whole funeral-free days in a row, with no attendant bad news, and am feeling much better. Picked up the Boy from his four-day school science camp. Had the extended family over for dinner. All very life-affirming, in their way.

Mudge, I'm so sorry about your relatives. There's just times like that.

Loomis, welcome back.

Cassandra, thanks for your thoughts. I don't believe all white people will convict a black person based on color - in fact I know they won't because I've seen some acquittals. However, I really don't see what else could have been happening in that Florida case. Just shocking, and saddening too. As I read the news stories, they had the options of convicting on a lesser charge and chose to acquit anyway. The defendants may have had the better lawyers, but I don't think their sickle-cell argument would have convinced a jury who wasn't leaning that way -- and none of whom had any personal experience with sickle cell, it being an "other" disease for them. Also, to the "boot camp" comments, as I understand it this young man was one of many placed in a boot camp by the justice system - that is, his family didn't really have any choice, and the guards really were guards (thus their "following order" defense). Correctional boot camps aren't necessarily set up in a child's best interest.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 13, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

In other comments, I share RD's fondness for brussels sprouts and peppers. Last night I made a casserole with green sauce (tomatillos, onions etc), corn tortillas, cheese and lots of roasted green chiles.

Thanks for the poem, MedallionofFerret.

Y'all have fun at that Philly BPH, y'hear?

I'm off with the Boy to the Regatta. This year we also had the USA Rowing World Challenge as part of it. Apparently when the Corps of Engineers "fixed" the river through downtown Oklahoma City lo those many years ago, they made it a perfect rowing channel. We're finally taking advantage of it.

A local winery always has a tent at the Regatta and serves frozen rose (imagine the accent, please). Mmmmmm, wine slushy.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 13, 2007 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Mudge, I am sorry to hear about your relatives' ill health. I am having two older cousins and some of their family members, plus my own daughters and families (including the new grand puppy) to dinner tomorrow. One of my cousins is 80, looks much younger and is in pretty much perfect health. The other is 72 and after a quintuple bypass a few years ago, has now been diagnosed with a rare form of lymphoma. I figure I need to get together with everyone as often as possible while they are still around. Not having that much family left, I enjoy those I do have and want to make memories for my daughters and granddaughters for when we are all gone. I did get positive results from my bloodwork the other day, I thought at the very least I'd have some little issue like cholesterol, but I got nothing - I'm healthy (knock wood).

So now I'm back to cooking and cleaning and, I hope, a nap. I'll be flat out busy tomorrow.

Posted by: Bad Sneakers | October 13, 2007 3:12 PM | Report abuse

I do so love the intertubes.

Posted by: Probationboy | October 13, 2007 3:36 PM | Report abuse

A Jethro Tull song on the TV, makes me think of Error.

Posted by: greenwithenvy | October 13, 2007 4:35 PM | Report abuse

What a glorious day. Cleared enough money at the yard sale to make it worth while. And when I went to the liquor store to pick up a bottle of gin, the proprietor, who is clearly legally blind, carded me.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 13, 2007 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Hehehe, when you get to be our age, RD, being carded is quite a compliment! Glad to hear you had a lovely day.

Posted by: Slyness | October 13, 2007 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Congratulations, RD, on being carded - just yesterday a bright young thing said cheerfully that she guessed I was over 21. I must express skepticism about your yard sale, though. I've never made enough from a yard sale to make it worth while.

The regatta was splendid, and no doubt still is, as there is racing until midnight tonight. The Boy did a rowing machine 500-yard competition, and cut his time from 2.47 minutes to 2.40 minutes in four tries. Then he kayaked for a while. He should sleep well tonight.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 13, 2007 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Thought of all the boodlers with troubles today. The sun set golden on the forest this evening, with light dancing on the orange feathers that adorn tamarack trees just before they shed their needles. The yellow dollars that shone from Birdie's aspens last week are popple coins here and always look as if they should jingle in the wind. It would have been the perfect evening to have a bph around the fire ring.

Jacques (aka Mr. Skunk) continues to visit occasionally but I have made progress with getting closer to my little gray feral cat friend in spite of not being able to leave food out all the time. She needs a name, so of course I turn to the boodle. Suggestions? Frostbitten naming conventions require that it start with a K or C. Names that have been retired are: Katt, Kubota, and Clyde. So as not to offend living family members Crystal is also out, and the Frostcats 1-3 are Clancy, Carla, and Kirby.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 13, 2007 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Krazy Kat
Knittin' Kitten
Catty Whompus

Posted by: College Parkian | October 13, 2007 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Kitty, Frosti? I know, it's so unoriginal. But it does it.

Posted by: Slyness | October 13, 2007 9:55 PM | Report abuse

kit'n kaboodle?

Posted by: L.A. lurker | October 13, 2007 10:16 PM | Report abuse






Posted by: Maggie O'D | October 13, 2007 10:20 PM | Report abuse




Posted by: Ivansmom | October 13, 2007 10:21 PM | Report abuse

Because of my height (or lack thereof), I was kind of glad when my hair turned gray in my 30s, so that I didn't get carded so much. Now I get "senior" discounts without being asked! Such a deal.

My sister has had several gray cats, which unfortunately do not have names that conform to your rules:
Zane Grey
Earl Grey

My favorite cat was called Kit, although his real name was Jaguar. Let's see -

Klickitat (Indian tribe) - "Klickitat the kitty cat" sort of rolls off the tongue, no?

Katy Kat


Coco Cat

Cool Cat or Kewl Kat

Koneko - Japanese for "kitten" ("cat" is neko)



Knish (kaNISH) - there was a puppet named Knish on a Pittsburgh kids' show

Posted by: mostlylurking | October 13, 2007 10:22 PM | Report abuse

You guys seem to be stuck on C's and K's for the critter. OK, then, how about Krauthammer? Coulter? Darth Cheney? Cholera? Cataclysm? Clymidia? Crematoria?

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 13, 2007 10:23 PM | Report abuse

L.A., of course!

What an awful accident near Los Angeles. Hope it's not too disruptive for you.

Posted by: mostlylurking | October 13, 2007 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Mudge, that's because:
"Frostbitten naming conventions require that it start with a K or C."

Hey, if it has the right personality, it could be Curmudgeon Cat!

Posted by: mostlylurking | October 13, 2007 10:29 PM | Report abuse

Kublai Khan
Krazy Kat
Crazy Horse
Clapton (if it's into the blues)
Clarence Clemons (if it likes Springsteen)

Posted by: mostlylurking | October 13, 2007 10:42 PM | Report abuse

I had a long haired cat named ChristoFUR.

Also had a cat named Charles, a stray we acquired in Charleston, SC.

I like Knute. I realize it is the name of that adorable polar bear in Germany, but it is still a good name. You have to pronounce both the K and the N.

Posted by: nellie | October 13, 2007 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Kuching (malay for cat)
Kuning (malay for yellow)
cinta (pronounce chin ta means "to love")

Posted by: rainforest | October 13, 2007 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Clem Kadiddlehopper?

Posted by: bill everything | October 13, 2007 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Colonoscopy? Caledonia? Krakatoa? Chauncey? Kalamazoo? Cucamonga? Kimosabee? Choo-Choo Chamberlain? Karma Klub Kameleon? Kumbiyah?

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 13, 2007 11:08 PM | Report abuse


I'm starting to get perturbed: no one from the Philly BPH has reported in yet. Jeez, I hope they haven't all be arrested for disorderly conduct or something. You guys know how that bunch can get.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 13, 2007 11:10 PM | Report abuse


In honor of Count Basie, Tom Watson and George Brett?

Posted by: bill everything | October 13, 2007 11:11 PM | Report abuse








Posted by: Maggie O'D | October 13, 2007 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Lost Boodler Mo and I just arrived at our nifty hotel after a wonderful evening spent with fine Boodle friends. We had a great dinner at Manyunk Brewery and enjoyed great wine, food and of course beer.

Then back to dbG's house to play with the dogs and enjoy more stories spanning across international borders. Oh.. and plenty of pronunciations... "I packed the box of books" was a phrase we heard often.

In attendance: dbG, Yoki, dmd, spouse of dmd, mo and TBG (and various animals and friends we picked up along the way).

We meet again in the morning for a full-on greasy breakfast. (btw... dmd's husband sure knows how to live an easy life.) I sure hope dmd tells y'all the story of their border crossing. Internet friends, indeed!

I'm so glad I came. G'night all!

Posted by: TBG | October 13, 2007 11:40 PM | Report abuse

Recall the posse and the search parties.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 13, 2007 11:43 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 13, 2007 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Dodge, TBG ruined my line, which was:

Send Bail Money! :-)

Another line from the BPH, "Hark! I hear the cannons roar! Is it the King approaching?"

And, Kabuki.

Posted by: dbG | October 14, 2007 12:05 AM | Report abuse

Mo! Wish I was there-- I had to do an expo today with a client. 6 service-type dogs there. Nice!

Wilbrodog got seriously flirted with by a female guide dog today.

They were busy doing a soft rendition of the "Papageno, papagena" duet from Mozart's the Magic Flute-- until I was tipped off and told him to shush his whining.

It broke his heart when we headed down the stairs and he caught sight of her on the balcony above.

But to console him, he got a stuffed toy and a little playdate with a chihuahua afterwards.

He spent 10 minutes figuring how to accept the chihuahua's high-speed efforts to play without... well, breaking the chihuahua.

He says he's already heard all the bad jokes about the bull in the chihuahua shop, thank you very much.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 14, 2007 12:21 AM | Report abuse

Indians and Red Sox tied at 6-6 going into the 10th.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 14, 2007 12:45 AM | Report abuse

Watching the ball game - glad I don't care who wins, and that it's not that late here.

Wow - a BPH sleepover. Very fun.

A couple more kitty names, then I'll stop, promise -
Cloud or Cloudy

I like Choo Choo too - that was a cartoon cat - which cartoon is escaping me at the moment. Lots of good ideas!

Posted by: mostlylurking | October 14, 2007 12:54 AM | Report abuse

Jeez, Indians have scored SEVEN runs in the top of the 11th. No way Boston comes back.

Sorry, Scotty.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 14, 2007 1:29 AM | Report abuse

Holy cats! What happened? I switched away to watch Robert Plant, next thing I know it's 8 to 6, then 13 to 6. Sorry, Sneaks and Snuke.

The Naming of Cats
T.S. Eliot

The naming of cats is a difficult matter,
It isn't just one of your holiday games;
You may think at first I'm mad as a hatter
When I tell you a cat must have three
different names.

First of all, there's the name
that the family use daily,
Such as Victor, or Jonathan,
George or Bill Bailey--
All of them sensible everyday names.
There are fancier names
if you think they sound sweeter,
Some for the gentlemen,
some for the dames;
Such as Plato, Admetus,
Electra, Demeter--
But all of them sensible everyday names.

But I tell you,
a cat needs a name that's particular,
A name that is peculiar, and more dignified,
Else how can he
keep up his tail perpendicular,
Or spread out his whiskers,
or cherish his pride?

Of names of this kind,
I can give you a quorum,
Such as Munkustrap, Quazo or Coripat,
Such as Bombalurina, or else Jellyrum--
Names that never belong
to more than one cat.

But above and beyond
there's still one name left over,
And that is the name that you will never guess;
The name
that no human research can discover--
But The Cat Himself Knows,
and will never confess.

When you notice a cat in profound meditation,
The reason, I tell you, is always the same:
His mind is engaged in rapt contemplation
Of the thought, of the thought,
of the thought of his name:
His ineffable effable
Deep and inscrutable singular Name.

Posted by: mostlylurking | October 14, 2007 1:46 AM | Report abuse

Kiara for a thespian cat
Clyde for a cool one
Carter for an august presence
Caligula for a sinister one
Khatchaturian for a music lover
Klepto for a food thief
Caledonia for a flirtatious type
Kokopelli for a virile one
Cappy for a bland cat
Kissinger for the strangelove kind
But: "Fred" is the best
cat name for a feral feline

Posted by: Anonymous | October 14, 2007 2:45 AM | Report abuse

hey, i want photographic evidence of the canuck invasion of philly, not just reports. loved the "wine, food, and of course beer" comment though.

yeah, ml, that wreck was pretty huge. the location is between the san fernando and santa clarita valleys, which doesn't affect me much. but if the 5 freeway is still out of commission during the work week, that will be a big pain in the rear for a lot of people.

a big rig also crashed into the metro line in pasadena this morning and somehow bent a rail, causing the whole metro line to be closed for the day.

i am very tempted to make a snide remark about californians (or at least angelenos) and driving in the rain, but i won't.

Posted by: L.A. lurker | October 14, 2007 2:50 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, friends. Lurker, I saw that on the news yesterday, and it looked like an inferno. I hope there weren't a lot of deaths or injuries in that. It looked really bad on television, and cars seemed to be backed up for miles.

Morning, Mudge, Scotty, Slyness, and all.*waving*

RD, you must really look young. I suspect it may be the hair? The picture I saw of you at the bph highlighted a lot of hair. Is it that fly-away kind as our head here, JA?

Can I tell you what my hair gets me? I think most people think I'm gay because I wear my hair cut close, real close. And I don't say that as a put down, just stating fact. This style is easier for me. When younger I wore this stlye because I could not afford the upkeep of another style, and now I wear it because of the stiffness and swollen hands. I love brush and go. Curlers and curling irons, no way. If I changed my style now, people would not recognize me.

I have a cold. That is what the sore throat was all about. The beginnings of a cold. I am dripping everywhere. Throat still sore.

I hope to see you in church this morning,(with my mind's eye). I am on my way to the showers to get ready for Sunday School, won't you please join me?

Have a wonderful day, folks. The weather here is so nice. Cool in the mornings, and warm and sunny in the afternoons. Oh, the magic of fall. Don't you love it?

God loves us so much more than we can imagine through Him that died for all, Jesus Christ.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 14, 2007 6:58 AM | Report abuse

" I am on my way to the showers to get ready for Sunday School, won't you please join me?"

Thanks, Cassandra, but I've already taken my shower this morning.


Posted by: TBG | October 14, 2007 8:19 AM | Report abuse

*mumble grumble friggin' Gagne ratzin fratzin bleary-eyed Grover shrugs*

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 14, 2007 8:36 AM | Report abuse

Stephan Colbert has a guest kit over on MoDowd.

Oh yeah. HI!
And youse guys in Philly.

Posted by: Boko999 | October 14, 2007 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Stayed awake til after 1 am for the game, "S" turned off the tv after the Indians got two of the runs in the eleventh inning. I don't feel too awful about the lose, the Indians aren't the Yankees (altho' the game was as long as many of those against the Yankees). What I do feel awful about is that I have a really busy day prepping for and having company and I wish I felt less tired.

Morning all, enjoy the day. Go Patriots! And yes, pics from the Philly boodle gathering would be excellent.

Posted by: Bad Sneakers | October 14, 2007 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Morning Boodlers! I am enjoying a lazy Sunday morning with not a single meeting scheduled today. Frostdaddy is here for a visit so my frenvy of the bph is a bit muted. Pictures please.

"I think George Bush has proved definitively that to be president, you don't need to care about science, literature or peace."--Stephen Colbert
Thank you Boko for the link.

Cassandra-I too wear my hair very short, and people make the same assumption or think it's the way I wore it in the military. On the contrary, as a soldier I wore it long with a french braid ending in a chignon to keep it within regs.

What great cat names. I'm intrigued that Kissinger was suggested more than once. However, we name dogs after politicians and statesmen. This explains Charles De Gaulle (I and II), Valerie Giscard d'Estaing, and Lamar Alexander. Brittanies beg for French names, and what else would you name a half starved thieving mutt who turns up on a Tennessee doorstep before Fred Thompson was a senator?

That left Knish, Kuching, and Catty Whompus as real standouts. Knish hit a little too close to home because I want to keep her from being eaten by a coyote, wolf, or fisher. Thanks to Mostly I'm staying away from Catty Whompus because I think it just may be the secret name of Kirby. So Kuching it is. Besides meaning cat, a look at the Wiki entry reveals that it is also the name of a city. The pictures of cat statues that accompany the Wiki text sealed the deal. It appears the city has no historical connection to cats and the statues were meant to promote tourism. We have a large animal statue homage in our fair city- a goose- and it was produced for the same reason. I hope Kuching has better luck. Thank you Rainforest.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 14, 2007 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Cassandra, I make Joel's hair look positively tidy. And although my oily Italian complexion has kept the wrinkles at bay, I think I was carded mostly because I looked kind of grungy yesterday. I was in need of a shave and wearing an old Myrtle Beach T-shirt and torn jeans.

There's your secret to a youthful look: Poor personal grooming.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 14, 2007 9:38 AM | Report abuse

This comic had me laughing this morning for a reason only the faithful boodlers will understand.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 14, 2007 9:41 AM | Report abuse

By "faithful boodlers" I mean, of course, those who read the boodle regularly.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 14, 2007 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Hmmmm. I don't know whether to take umbrage or not. But I'm laughing, so I guess not.)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 14, 2007 10:02 AM | Report abuse

I'd sue for copyright infringement, 'Mudge... *LOL*

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 14, 2007 10:20 AM | Report abuse

A cat's name should contain as many sibilants as possible. That's why I once named a cat "Spuds," not to particularly honor a beer-hawking bulldog. Spuds knew his name. It's why "kitty" works, too.

"Kuching" is a fine sibilant cat name. (So is "Kaiser Sose" or "Kevin Spacey," for that matter.)

Posted by: Probationboy | October 14, 2007 10:25 AM | Report abuse

You're welcome, frostbitten. I'm surprised Kuching appeared in wiki.

Posted by: rainforest | October 14, 2007 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Even when I only have a minute, I know I can read a few posts and laugh at something. RD, that's funny.

We don't have pets (too much travel), but my friend named her dog something about how it looks. It's name is probably Brownie or something along those lines, but I always think of it's name as Big Dumb Dog.

Posted by: LostInThought | October 14, 2007 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Good morning y'all. Very funny cartoon, RD. The Boy was curious but it would have taken too long to explain.

Ivansdad says "Yo boodle." He's reminding me that it is almost time to get dressed for church. There's a church picnic afterwards, followed by the big Centennial parade which, conveniently, passes by the church. I don't know how they're going to have giant balloons in this wind, but the regatta managed to have rowing.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 14, 2007 10:39 AM | Report abuse

SCC twice. Its, not it's. I guess my Sunday Morning Bloody Mary has kicked in.

Posted by: LostInThought | October 14, 2007 10:40 AM | Report abuse

I guess if I were a pet owner, it would be his name. Or her. I don't know. I guess if I were a pet owner, I'd know that too.

Posted by: LostInThought | October 14, 2007 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Is sibilant fricative available as a boodle handle?

Posted by: frostbitten | October 14, 2007 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Stumped on any name.

Posted by: Casteroil | October 14, 2007 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Voiceless plosive is. The wiki says sibilants are subset of fricatives.

Posted by: Probationboy | October 14, 2007 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Caste Royal?

Posted by: Probationboy | October 14, 2007 12:10 PM | Report abuse

RD, good catch on that cartoon. the artist didn't even know how funny it was.

Posted by: kbertocci | October 14, 2007 12:16 PM | Report abuse

I think Kaiser Sose is a great name for a cat.

You'll have to excuse me now--the Redskins are 6 minutes from kickoff.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 14, 2007 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Hey everybody!

Scotty, did you stay up too late last night?

RD, loved the cartoon.

Cassandra, as you know, I wear my hair short also. For me, it's all about convenience. My hair is curly so I cooperate with it because it's just sooo much easier. The things African-American women can do with their hair are amazing. I'd be envious if I didn't have some idea of the effort involved. But it does look great.

Posted by: Slyness | October 14, 2007 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Backboodled to read Joel's Kit "Beware of Moose." We stepped into the scene of a news story on Thursday night.

We were to meet my niece for dinner, after long hours with a tax attorney and my sister that day, at Ruby's at the end of the Oceanside pier at 6 p.m. Thursday. As it turned out, we got there about two minutes before Jenny, her fireman husband Tim Olson, and the Olson twins arrived. Since we had leisurely walked to the end of the pier and arrived at Ruby's before them, we put in the dinner reservation.

Moments before stepping onto the long pier, I noticed the news van, with its mammoth antenna, of a local CBS affiliate station (San Diego, my best guess) in the parking lot on the beach at the base of the pier. The camera tripod had been set up in the beach sand just beyond the asphalt, and at that time, I saw no news talent or cameraman, although I was scanning the area for them once I had seen the vehicle. Loomispouse was taking pictures of surfers on both sides of the pier.

When Jenny and Tim arrived, we asked them why a news crew would be parked on the beach for a story. Balmy weather? No, death by SeaDoo, as it turned out.

OCEANSIDE, Calif. -- The search for a man riding a Jet Ski who went missing after a collision with his brother has been called off, according to Oceanside Harbor police.

The search resumed Friday morning for a short while for the man, but the Coast Guard called it off later in the day. Rescuers combed the waters off Oceanside for hours on Thursday but had no luck finding the man, who the North County Times identified as Sean Carter. The paper also reported that the victim who was rescued, reportedly Sean's brother Doug, said he and his brother collided on their Jet Skis [head-on].

Posted by: Loomis | October 14, 2007 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Weingarten is so behind the Times (his Post is no better). He was outFoxed years ago.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 14, 2007 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Oh, goodie -- others with curly hair. Now that my hair is grey to the point of being entirely white in front (a bit darker in the back), it doesn't curl like it used to. It took me ages to feel comfortable in curly hair, and now it doesn't work right. Alas. I've let it grow (now below shoulders) and wear it back in a clip or pony tail. I loved the comfort and no-time-at-all to fix it when it was short and curled the way I wanted it to. Now I spend time with the blowdryer and straightening iron. Not the best use of my time, but, well, there we are.

Posted by: firsttimeblogger | October 14, 2007 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Oh crap. That's all. *sigh*

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 14, 2007 3:43 PM | Report abuse

My 3:41 was in reference to the Redskins.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 14, 2007 3:50 PM | Report abuse

I went to bed last night when the game was tied at 6/6. I knew then it was lost. I am a true Red Sox fan -- a fatalistic pessimist.

Posted by: Maggie O'D | October 14, 2007 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Mudge - the hubby and son feel your pain. As for me, I can't feel sympathy for anyone but me. I planted I-don't-know-how-many pansies (Redskins colors, btw) and about 75 daffodil and tulip bulbs today. I can barely move! I just poured myself a glass of wine, dinner is simmering so I thought I would backboodle and generally relax.

Fall has finally arrived in Tidewater. I never thought I would say this but I welcome it. I have been sitting at my daughter's field hockey games sweltering for too long now.

Hubby and I are going to Charlottesville next weekend to celebrate our 20th anniversary. We plan to do Monticello and Ashlawn, but would also like to do a winery (or two!) Mudge, anyone? Suggestions? I'd really appreciate any thoughts.

I hope everyone has had a wonderful weekend.

Posted by: Kim | October 14, 2007 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Frosti, excellent choice. I love the statue of the white cat in the vest.

It's been a beautiful fall weekend here. Foggy in the morning, then sunny and warm. Wish it had been like this last weekend, when the dr's were here. I'm resisting the urge to buy more bulbs because it is so exhausting to plant them. Well, maybe just a few more crocuses. Kim, you'll be rewarded in the spring.

Posted by: mostlylurking | October 14, 2007 5:49 PM | Report abuse

As soon as the page loads one can see how a square hole is drilled.

Posted by: Probationboy | October 14, 2007 5:50 PM | Report abuse

A Mudgelicious cartoon to jump-start my mood... how nice!

Frostbitten, I don't have to mention that a geographically handy version of Kuching exists in Minnesota... Koochiching. (Or Kuchiching, in Canada).

I would have joined the kitty name parade, but that'd have just added to the catastrophically long list.

Had I known geography appealled, I'd have suggested Calcutta, though.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 14, 2007 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Kim-you've suffered and deserve fall. The Frostrents cut their trip to the VA state fair short because of the heat last weekend. Frostdaddy gave up and came up for a visit to the frozen north.

This is an excellent web site with info on the Charlottesville area wineries

My personal favourites are Barboursville, Jefferson, and Prince Michel (watch the speed traps to and fro Prince Michel from Charlottesville).

The Jefferson vineyard had a spiffy t-shirt with a good quote from Mr. Jefferson himself "No nation is drunken where wine is cheap."

Posted by: frostbitten | October 14, 2007 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Wilbrod-So funny you should mention Koochiching County. It is but a stone's throw from Chez Frostbitten and Mr. F always loses a syllable and calls it Kuching. I've often said I was going to name a feline Cat Astrophe, but there might be too much truth in it for she who is now called Kuching. Wild she is.

Calcutta->Oh, Calcutta->bare bottoms->blue bottoms->that cartoon->Mudge umbrage. Some perfectly good cat names are too easily ruined.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 14, 2007 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone else hear Garrison Keillor disrepect Doris Lessing last night, or did my ears deceive me?

Here's Julia Keller, the culture critic of the Chicago Tribune on Lessing.,0,7420479.column

Posted by: Maggie O'D | October 14, 2007 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Oooooh, Maggie, what a fabulous review! Strangely enough, I've never read Lessing, but I'm going to go out to get The Golden Notebook. Now, if only I could muster up enough time to read for pleasure. *sigh*

I agreed, BTW, with the review about Roth. I felt much the same about Saul Bellow. Couldn't stand the way he portrayed women, either.

Posted by: firsttimeblogger | October 14, 2007 6:10 PM | Report abuse

But with cheap wine comes ritual and structure and consumption with meals.

Page 18 of this report

Shows that France is sixth in total alcohol consumption, behind Ireland, Czech republic, Uganda, Luxembourg and Moldavia.

The Russian federation is 18th.

When broken down by alcohol category, France is second to Luxembourg in wine consumption per adult capita.

Binge drinking coverage begins on page 34. Interestingly, Canada has a comparable rate to France (slightly higher) in spite of the lower overall wine consumption.

Since Canada has a strong french heritage yet a lower overall alcohol consumption rate, this tends to support genetics rather than culture as influencing binge drinking.

Drinkers in drance dependent on alcohol: estimated at 14.3% men, 4.1% women.

Drinkers in America ditto, 10.3% men, 4.8% women.

Again, Canada compares closely to France: 14.0% men, 4.5% women.

Surveys can be inaccurate, of course, but it's interesting.

Page 39 indicates binge drinking among youth just to get the buzz is much higher in Canada than in France or America (but not as high as in the UK or Ireland).

While Jefferson's quote is amusing, it's not necessarily true (or false). But the French lead by a good example: always drink wine with food.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 14, 2007 6:18 PM | Report abuse

But the word "calico" comes from Calicut cloth. But if Mudge throws a wobbler, appease him with "Cutty Sark".

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 14, 2007 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Is "Drinkers in Drance" available?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 14, 2007 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Here's a list that Julia Keller put together for those who wish to read Lessing.,0,7272571.column

I totally agree with you about Bellow. I find him unreadable. Roth, on the other hand, was a great writer in the early days. His first novel, Letting Go, (1962) is a favorite of mine.

Posted by: Maggie O'D | October 14, 2007 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Happy anniversary, Kim. As to wineries, I've mentioned Stone Mountain Vineyards several time--probably my favorite wines. It is located in a place that the Wirty Dird filter won't allow, so be careful typing it: it is Dy ke. It is listed on the link Frosti posted, or you can go directly here: I don't know how far it is from Charlottesville, but it is worth the drive (Web site says 30 minutes; I don't know about that). Don't use a GPS; follow the driections on the Web site.

When we had the mini-BHP at Montpelier wine festival earlier this year I bought two cases from them: a case of their Virginia Table Wine, which is yummy, and a case of Bacon Hallow Revenuers Select, which is a tad more expensive, but well worth--my favorite wine. They also have a blush wine called Maquillage that is really excellent.

I've tasted wines from more than half the places on the Montchiello wine trail link, and can defintely recommend Afton Mountain's Gewirtztraminer (got a couple bottles our wine rack, though it's a little pricey at $19). But they only have three wines, so might not be worth the trip.

I also like Burnley quite a lot. They have a very nice Riesling ($12, can't beat that), a great blush called Rivanna Sunset ($10), and a sweet wine called Somerset (10) I really like--great for fall/autumn, and an even better spicy autumn wine called Spicy Rivanna. Their Zinfindel is good, and their dessert wine/ice wine, Moon Mist is excellent. Oh, hell, all their stuff is great, and the prices are excellent. Don't miss Burnley.

Barboursville always gets good reviews, and they have a good restaurant there as well as an inn--worth a visit. (I haven't been there, but have tasted their stuff many times. A little too oakey for me, but don't let that deter you.)

I've bought wines from Cardinal Point at wine festivals--good stuff. Good rieslings and viogniers.

If it was me, I'd do Burnley and Stone Mountain (No. 1) for sure, and Barboursville more for the restaurant and "show," etc.

If you do Stone Mountain, I should warn you about the road. You ;eave a four-lane divided highway to go on a two-lane. Then a one-lane. Then a gravel road, and finally as you start actual;ly climbing up Stone Mountain you think your going up an old horse cart trail and hearing the banjo music from "Deliverance." You will be thinking, "What in the world did Mudge get us into?" You'll be doing 2 mph up the side of a mountain, but be of stout heart--it's worth it. And then when you get to the top you won't believe it: the winery itself, the wines--or the incredible view out over the Shenandoah valley.

(If you go to Burnley, you'll probably pass right by Barboursville, so might as well stop in.)

Yes, Maggie, I heard Keillor dissing Lessing. I'm not a Lessing fan myself, but yes, it was a little odd hearing him dump on her like that.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 14, 2007 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Howdy All
I was taking a break from Football(yeah I know that sounds crazy)and went to the river, just to sit and enjoy. Well I watched a Black Bear swim the river, it was so cool. It got out and came over about 30 yards from my Kayaks and then took off. I guess it finally saw me.

I have pictures of the river crossing and will try and post them somewhere. I estimated 150-200 lbs.

Posted by: greenwithenvy | October 14, 2007 7:02 PM | Report abuse

I read "To Room Nineteen" I believe. It's an unforgettable story. Unfortunately it wasn't a story I really wanted to remember, and it reminds me of Joel's comment above: "What makes people think they know anything about the marriages of other folks?"

I had the strong impression reading it that Doris Lessing based it on a couple she had met who seemed way too intelligent, too stable, too well adjusted. I was pretty offended on the behalf of the anonymous model couple(s) that she envisioned such a black fate on.

Nobody suicides because they're bored. NOBODY.

Of course I'm biased. Literature that involves examining all the lice in the armpits of depression isn't exactly my thing. However when I want that, I have Ibsen.

If Garrison Keiller based his knowledge of Lessing on that short story, I'm not surprised he'd be so savage.

Such "boring" settled marriages are the hallmark of the Midwest and do not contribute to a high rate of insanity and suicidal depression.

And if Keiller knew any married women in happy marriages who DID suicide, that'd add the finesse to his offense.

That said... I have no knowledge of Lessing's other works, so I can't say.

I see she has written on politically relevant topics, and that's always a win in Stockholm.

As for Saul Bellows-- at least he was funny. The best around then? I'd be surprised.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 14, 2007 7:02 PM | Report abuse

I think that the Colbert guest kit was a work of imagination by Dowd herself. She has a habit of that sort of thing.

Posted by: Mo (not THE mo) MoDo | October 14, 2007 7:02 PM | Report abuse

Hello, Boodle.

I hope everyone up at the Philly BPH had a nice time, I'm sorry I missed it.

Still, I had a good weekend down here visiting with good friends, enjoying good food, getting a few things done.

Well, the 'skins and Sox losing didn't help anything, but I did pick Green Bay this week FWIW.

RD, that comic was really good, thanks.

Watching the Cowboys and Pats here; those are a couple of really good teams, but Tom Brady is something else. 5 TDs in the game so far, and it's only the beginning of the 4th quarter. I don't have a man-crush on him the way I do F1 race car driver Lewis Hamilton, but for those that do, I completely understand it.


Posted by: bc | October 14, 2007 7:13 PM | Report abuse

The Post has been able to cover the war only because of the courage of innumerable Iraqi reporters, tranlators, drivers, etc., and today one of our most intrepid journalists, an Iraqi national from Tikrit, was murdered while doing his job in Baghdad. It's a terrible tragedy and a reminder that the news doesn't just arrive automatically but requires life or death decisions on a daily basis.

Posted by: Achenbach | October 14, 2007 8:32 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, Joel, for linking to the article about Saif Aldin. My cousin Ellen, former Post Baghdad bureau chief, is home visiting and she had many nice things to say about him. She is sad about his death, and the deaths of the other Iraqis caught up in this mess.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 14, 2007 8:45 PM | Report abuse

There is a beautiful memorial to slain journalists in Rosslyn. I hate to think that soon there will be another name added to it.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 14, 2007 8:54 PM | Report abuse

I hate this war. Such needless waste of lives, ours and theirs. All the lost souls, families destroyed, friends grieving, no real end in sight. What a mess!

Family gathering went well. Everyone came at the same time, meeting in the driveway. The grand puppy and granddaughters had lots of fun chasing each other around. The food all came out well. I even managed to cook the tenderloin perfectly - I love my instant read thermometer. And the Pats won big. All in all, a very good day. Hope everyone else had an equally good one.

Posted by: Bad Sneakers | October 14, 2007 9:22 PM | Report abuse

RD-that journalists' memorial in Rosslyn always chokes me up, perhaps more than any memorial to slain soldiers or murdered innocents. Killing a journalist is so often an attempt to kill the truth-and paves the way for more deaths of soldiers and innocents.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 14, 2007 9:33 PM | Report abuse

Today I saw "they enter the public arena, they should expect everything they got" when it came to the 12 year old kid's family and the child health insurance bill.

Uh... no. News means you investigate and then present conclusions based on facts.

You speculate without facts loudly and publicly in an effort to intimidate members of a democracy from participating in a public debate that concerns them personally, that's libel, slander, and reprehensible thuggery.

I fear the legacy of this administration will be centered on the fact that it's apparently okay to be openly mean and vindictive to people who you disagree with but have no knowledge of other than that they're in favor of a specific political position that you disagree with.

Of course, maybe this administration just encapsulates a certain element in America that has been given encouragement and patronage.

We are in the information age, and a lot of jerks can find information of all kinds if they dig or pay somebody else to dig for them. But more commonly, they lie, distort, and make up facts.

We apparently have lost a reasonable right to privacy. Sometimes it's too bad that the age of duels is past.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 14, 2007 9:44 PM | Report abuse

"The Mommy Blog Takes Over America: News at 11."

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 14, 2007 9:46 PM | Report abuse

I liked the newseum memorial too. It's very creative and pretty. I don't want to see any more names on it, though. There are so many already.

Posted by: Wilbrod | October 14, 2007 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Thank, Ivansmom, for your comments on the death of Post reporter Saif Aldin

Posted by: Dave of the Coonties | October 14, 2007 10:00 PM | Report abuse

So terrible.

In my younger days, I camped up at Gathland State Park a bunch of times. I've always understood the import -- always felt that wave of emotions -- when contemplating the arch.

Posted by: LostInThought | October 15, 2007 1:54 AM | Report abuse

Just checking in to let the Boodle know that I am, once again, Your Man at High Altitude. Aloha, y'all.

Posted by: ScienceTim | October 15, 2007 4:11 AM | Report abuse

In Hawaii at High Altitude looking at stars. That sounds fun!

Posted by: rainforest | October 15, 2007 4:45 AM | Report abuse

'Morning, Boodle. Aloha, MountainTopTim. Hey, about about posting another link to that observatory, so we diligent Boodlers can spend hours watching somebody stare at a computer screen? There was something weirdly fascinating about watching you guys and gals climbing all over that big whatever-it-was machine up there.

Judgeing from the news stories, The Redskins themselves are feeling almost as bad as their fans this morning, with Santana Moss leading the hairshirt mea culpas (as he should). I'm sorry he's feeling so bad, but I would rather have been 5-0, as we should be, rather than 3-2. I was worried about the sad-sack team that lost to the Giants showing up against the Packers, and that's exactly what happened.

On the other hand, anybody who scores 48 points *on the road* and especially *in Dallas* is just fine by me. (I wish it meant other teams could also score 48 points against the Cowboys, though I know nobody else could. But hope beats eternal, etc.)

Hmm. Wonder if we have any food in the house...

*wanders off in search of sustenance*

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 15, 2007 5:56 AM | Report abuse

As a quasi-Balti-moron, I take a bit of umbrage at the mischaracterization going on with that family being swift-boated by the vast right wing conspiracy. Everything from the property value of a rather generic rowhome to the eyebrow raising about private schools. I thought that was what that ilk wanted, out of the public school system. These people clearly meet the intent of the program as working middle class folk without access to health care.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 15, 2007 6:47 AM | Report abuse

That article on Saif Aldin was a very moving tribute to a clearly brave individual. It is tough to imagine a job where that sort of risk is part of the description.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 15, 2007 6:54 AM | Report abuse

Happy Monday, everybody.

Rainforest, I thought about you last night when I saw the crescent moon. No more fasts during the day? Last week, I heard a presentation by a young Muslim woman about her trip to Mecca last December. Fascinating and quite moving. What an ordeal a hajj can be.

God bless Saif Aldin and the work he did, to bring truth to the world.

Interesting, the story about Al Quaeda being is disarray and the one yesterday about the falling off of violence in Iraq. I hope there is progress.

Posted by: Slyness | October 15, 2007 7:11 AM | Report abuse

'Morning, sll! Hooya Monday. Life is good: The Tribe dispensed the Sox, sorry Scotty but my loyalties lie with the mistake by the Lake and the lovable losers from Wrigleytown, our marching band recieved first place for drum major, colour guard and music, the children were all well behaved during the trip (to Myrtle Beach), and I learned to text message. I was aided by my daughter and, having nothing better to was, texted some nonsense about moose bites. The replies informed me that I was in need of some serious help, something along the lines of UR crazy. My week promises to be chaotic as we have a work day (graphing calculators for 8 hours), driving the bus for the physics kids to the State Fair in Columbia, and having to reel my own students back in after being out Tuesday. Oy.

Posted by: jack | October 15, 2007 7:36 AM | Report abuse

ACC: all. as in 'Morning, all. Duh.

Joel and 'Mudge: I'm sorry to hear that the two of you are having a rough time of it. I'll add an extra couple of prayers to my list today. Peace be with the two of you.

Posted by: jack | October 15, 2007 7:44 AM | Report abuse

*bowing head in honor of Salih Said Aldin*

jack, it's a tad early to talk of dispensing, hm?

Unless we're talking about the so-called "Duel in Dallas." *sharing wide smiles with Sneaks*

*adjusting-to-a-slightly-different-work-schedule-mumble-grumble Grover waves*


Posted by: Scottynuke | October 15, 2007 8:01 AM | Report abuse

Hello yellojkt,

We can appreciate your point. It may be appropriate to bring out that the family has certain means, but shouldn't we also be trying to focus on the issues w/out, either attacking Americans nor using selected spokes people (the kid wasn't necessary to make the proposal, but nor is the circus of investigations.

At the end of the day, the circus may only bring into question whether the family is really hurting financially.

I don't mean to be a lame version of Hillary Clinton here, but I just think we should restrain from either personal attacks AND putting up or using stunt spokespeople. (of course) I have no clue if the kid or the family have been out in front on the proposal either nationally or in their own community.

yellojkt, I grew up at best lower middle class, but spent some significant time in private schools w/out my parents having to pay a full ticket for the benefits.

For the purposes of discussion, it is helpful, and I mean this in the best way for us all to try to simplify, as much as possible, the issues for the best results for the nation. At the end of the day, if it is a national dicision to decide whether poor children are covered, lets find a point where people think that kids should be covered and vote on it.

Further, I hope that we can find leaders from all sides (I wish to high heaven that we get away from this 2 political worlds that must never cross over. We aren't that simple as individuals, so let's stop expecting that our political representatives look at us as a homogenious segments.)

I believe our country has been handcuffed by this inability (or is the ability of those spinning interest groups to elevate the acrimony and get in front of the cameras before common Americans get to see the issues) to calmly get a full reading of the issues in a lengthy format which, without spinning from either side, we get a true understanding of the issues. We then hopefully, could expose the differences in approach along with whatever disagreements there are on the facts or statistics of the issues.

yellojkt, I would fully be comfortable with coming out on the short end of a vote if I could trust that the vote represented the wishing of 50 percent or more of my fellow citizens. I don't truly mind being in the minority. I think that has made me a charming misfit in the past. I hope that when I state something in a clear manner and just say that I disagree with your point there that it doesn't make me a demon, but just another view who can listen to your point and easily say where I agree or disagree with you.

That, is what I think has ben and still could be what can make America great.

Of course, yellojkt, there is a bit of America which has always been the misfit and we could, as our leaders HAVE DONE in the past, just pull out the dueling pistols and "settle this thang, like men!"

HA HA HA!!!!

Posted by: Casteroil | October 15, 2007 8:08 AM | Report abuse

Tim, throw a snowball for me (if there is any)

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 15, 2007 8:13 AM | Report abuse

I'll post a new kit around 10 or so. Emphasis on the "or so."

Posted by: Achenbach | October 15, 2007 8:29 AM | Report abuse

How about Kant.

Or Casper.

The poster at October 14, 2007 10:59 AM was pretty funny

And then there's Mudge's suggestion at 3:43, oh wait, never mind.

Kat O' Nine Tails.

Posted by: omni | October 15, 2007 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Amazing sentence in the sad report of Salih Said Aldin's death: "His body was later observed lying on the street, covered with newspapers."

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 15, 2007 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, my friends. That indeed is sad news about the reporter in Iraq. We read the news, but rarely think about the risk some take in getting that news we so take for granted over our morning coffee.

Love the cartoon, RD, although I did not quite get it. I think I'm in the loop with the Boy, Ivansmom.

The cold is doing its thing, and I'm going along with it. I don't know what else to do.

TBG, I got that. It seems I was asking all to join me in the shower, but I was really asking all to join me at church. Did not express it well. Thanks for showing me the error of my way.

Slyness I thought your hair looked good, and I did notice the curls. There are lots of designs and looks for hair, but I just cannot go that route. Too, too, much work in that. I like the look of some of it, but not the work.

Morning, Mudge, Scotty, and all,.*waving*

Got to go. Have a great day, despite the fact that it is Monday. Nice and chilly here, with the promise of heat later. Don't you just love this weather?

God loves us so much more than we can imagine through Him that died for all, Jesus Christ.

Posted by: Cassandra S | October 15, 2007 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Casteroil... some good points there. Sometimes it's hard to be in the minority when the majority takes the ball and runs totally in the other direction, without giving a thought to the nearly half of the nation that didn't choose him (or her).

I don't think victory in a democratic vote means total obliteration of the opposition and that seems to me to be what has happened over the past six years.

Posted by: TBG | October 15, 2007 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Just sayin', I really enjoyed the Philly BPH!

It's hard to believe dmd and dmdspouse drove all that way, but I'm so glad they did. I dropped Yoki back off at the airport this morning with wishes she and everyone else returns. Emma Rose, the let-me-jump-on-you-lab, has kept all 4 paws firmly on the ground because of Yoki's tutelage.

Thanks also to TBG and Mo for attending and keeping us all laughing!

Now I'm falling asleep at my desk. No energy to wave. :-)

Posted by: dbG | October 15, 2007 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Cassandra - The joke refers to a profoundly silly running gag regarding Mudge's boat. The bottom of the boat is painted blue. So, naturally, being blissfully childish, the boodle started to associated a "blue bottom" with Mudge himself.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 15, 2007 9:27 AM | Report abuse

The WaPo story about the tragic death of the Iraqi journalist made me pay more attention to a story in this morning's Miami Herald about the slaying of journalists in Latin America, and the efforts being made to help there:

Posted by: kbertocci | October 15, 2007 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Profoundly silly? Moi? I don't think anyone has ever accused me of profundity before.

Hmm. I think I'm...well...flattered. My cheeks (facial) are turning red.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 15, 2007 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I am not Currency Crazy.

1/10. My only excuse is that I'm still hungover, My head hurts and my vision is blurry, my glasses need cleaning and...and,,,argh


Posted by: omni | October 15, 2007 10:00 AM | Report abuse

A couple of quick items here: LiT, that was a good pull remembering the memorial arch at Gathland. I thought about that as well when I read about Aldin.

And the memorials at Arlington and the Newseum...

Sometimes shining the light of truth has a terrible cost. We owe a tremendous debt to those that have paid the price to tell us what they've seen in their lights.


Posted by: bc | October 15, 2007 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Oh jeez, omni, 4/10. I gotta learn to guess better.

Posted by: Slyness | October 15, 2007 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Good morning. Castoroil, I think you misunderstood yellojkt's comment. Based on much experience reading his posts, it looked to me like he was criticizing the swift-boat right wing conspiracy for their treatment of the family who, he was noting, appears to be in exactly the circumstances for which SCHIP was designed (and taking advantage of scholarships to private schools in a way the SBRWC crowd should approve).

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 15, 2007 10:11 AM | Report abuse

I should have gotten at least a 6/10, but some how managed to mess up on the questions I did know the answer to. The one question I did get right was sort of a guess cuase I can't say I 'knew', but then my gut said it couldn't be the other three...

Posted by: omni | October 15, 2007 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I think I need more caffeine...

Posted by: omni | October 15, 2007 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Wow. This article discusses both moose *and* marauding bears.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 15, 2007 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Eeeeep! 3/10 on the quiz... :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 15, 2007 10:46 AM | Report abuse

The one true regret I had in making the trip to California this past week was not scheduling any leisure while out there for just my husband and me.

When we departed on Friday morning early, we followed Coast Highway to the point where it ends and joins I-5, then on to the San Diego Airport. The beaches, surf and sky were so beautiful in the morning light that I wish we had stayed just one more day by using every last one of my husband's Marriott reward points, so that we could have taken a long stroll on the hard-packed sand at ocean's edge in the morning and taken the Coaster in the afternoon to San Diego's marina area for a walkabout.

So, given the past week's circumstances, we had to fit in some recreation this weekend. We spent a little more than five hours late yesterday afternoon and evening at La Villita on the Riverwalk helping to chase away the blues by listening to much lively stomach Steinway music. I hope to elaborate as the Kit rolls over.

Posted by: Loomis | October 15, 2007 10:50 AM | Report abuse

I think there is something supernatural about that quiz.

Posted by: omni | October 15, 2007 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Ivansmom, yes, a bit (misread), but also, I think even in my misread, I wish that we can all spend more time focusing on the issues. I am sort of a leftie, but I can understand the frustration of the folks on the right who see this kid come out and make "the plea."

I personally don't see a problem with the SCHIP. It's in my comfort zone. It is unfortunate that we can't discuss why, whether we all pay the government for insurance or an insurance company, we need coverage for everyone. We pay, as they say, one way or another.

The rates for Medicare, Medicaid and indigent care are adjusted to cover those uninsured people who go to hospitals and doctors. Private insurance rates go up with Medicare rates, so we are paying more than we would like to think.

Plus, the care provided to the children is so inefficient and hard to come by for those in need, AND we are putting so many families into peril with a disaster which did happen to the family in question. As they tell us, but for the grace of God...

But, I think that, in today's climate, as pointed out by everyone, it is so hard to work towards a good plan to do anything.

I had a very long discussion with a liberatarian this weekend who kept getting stuck on the fact that people "SHOULD" have insurance, while agreeing that there were at least 40 million Americans were uninsured right now (much higher, in fact)... I made the point that, 40 million is a huge number considering that almost everyone over 63 is insured and so many children are covered one way or another.

You can't argue about the reality of our situation. 40 million is a frightening number and so would be 50 or 60, which may be more realistic. As they say, you can do the math on the percentage, but there are about 200 million (a guesstimate) people in the 18 to 63 range.

Posted by: Casteroil | October 15, 2007 11:02 AM | Report abuse

5/10. Is it considered cheating if ya pull a coin out of your pocket to look at it? (uh...not that I would ever stoop to such a low-down, dirty, sneaky trick or anything...)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 15, 2007 11:03 AM | Report abuse

If it supplied an answer it's cheating. Otherwise it's attempted cheating.

Did you check the other cheeks? I'm guessing they turned purple.

Posted by: omni | October 15, 2007 11:11 AM | Report abuse

So I see from the quiz that there is no spandex in US currency. Maybe that's why it is so hard to stretch a dollar.

HaHa Ha Ha...Ha

or so.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 15, 2007 11:12 AM | Report abuse

omni, I only have so many cheeks, ya know.

Yeah, I was thinkin' about going there, too, Padouk, but it was kinda low-hanging fruit. (That just means I'm jealous.)

Good thing we've all learned not to get too excited about Joel saying he's gonna post a kit at such-and-such a time. Though I missed reading a JA-bylined story this weekend.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 15, 2007 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Thank you for paraphrasing me much more eloquently and clearly than I obviously was able to do.

I personally advocate mandatory portable private insurance much like no fault car insurance is handled except with a much higher threshhold for companies dropping coverage. And some sort of government operated safety net of last resort would still be necessary.

I just don't expect any such system to emerge from our political special interest meatgrinder any time soon.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 15, 2007 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Our Representative, who is also a physician, has joined in the trashing of the 12-year old who delivered the Democratic message on SCHIP.

Anything to avoid the socialist nightmare of universal health care.

Posted by: Dave of the Coonties | October 15, 2007 11:42 AM | Report abuse

I know--just think how awful it would be if everyone had access to health care. *shudders*

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 15, 2007 11:49 AM | Report abuse

'Honey, I'm home.' I feel a little like in 'Pleasantville' where the Dad walks in to an empty house and he is so out of step he doesn't understand anything. I need to do some reading. I've updated my blog with some pics and events

Meeting Mostlylurking was wonderful. I wish it had been longer, I wish we'd have had more time.

I also wish we could have stopped at more vineyards, but there was only so much I could do in a week.

Posted by: dr | October 15, 2007 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Hey yellojkt,

No, my misread, you stated things well. Here is what I think, I would prefer my solution v. your solution, but I think yours would get us much closer to where we need to be than we are now, so I could very much live with it.

My reason for having an issue with you is that insurance companies are in the business of making money. At some point, the way they would optimize their profit would be to deny services. The challenge would be to keep private coverage from redlining people areas, or individuals, otherwise, if they fall into public coverage, then we, as a nation or state (based on who runs the safety net) would have the most expensive challenge and thusly (In my book) underwriting the insurance companies, themselves).

yellojkt, my other concern is that health insurance agreements w/ unions has saddled shrinking businesses with impossible business challenges (auto industry). By taking on some of those responsibilities (as we do with pension problems), I suggest that we could immediately revitalize that sector and other rust belt industries, as well.

just a thought.

Posted by: Casteroil | October 15, 2007 12:00 PM | Report abuse

oops. I don't have an issue with you yellojkt ... a writo. Just that I think we would optimumly want different things, but some major change to address the problem would help sooo sooo much. As Dave mentioned, I believe that trashing the kid (as you and Ivansmom also mentioned) isn't a good starting point for a dialogue.

Posted by: Casteroil | October 15, 2007 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Hi, dr! Nice to know that you made it back home ok. It was so wonderful meeting you and mrdr - wish you could have stayed longer and that the weather had been nicer. I can't thank you enough for driving all that way, and for the Tim Horton coffee, Canadian Tire money, the books, and the lovely sock yarn and knitting needles you brought me. What a treat.

Posted by: mostlylurking | October 15, 2007 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Ah, you guys beat me to the spandex comment.

I had 5/10 on the quiz, too.

Resisted checking my pockets or my wallet for research purposes.

Not that I actually have any money anyway.


Posted by: bc | October 15, 2007 12:16 PM | Report abuse

New Kit! :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 15, 2007 12:17 PM | Report abuse

In the Metro section today there was this:

Standing behind us in line for the movies were two young men discussing one's date the night before. "I really can't relate to her," he said. "Let me give you an example why: We were discussing the possibility of universal health care, and she said, 'I don't think it should come out of our taxes. I think the government should pay for it.' "

For more:

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