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Steel Cage Death Match In the Desert

[My take on the debate last night, cross-posted from The Trail.]

The debate was about as pleasant and genteel as a dogfight. CNN should have replaced Wolf Blitzer with Michael Vick. The CNN promos had promised, with scarcely hidden glee, that the gloves were going to come off, and sure enough, the first questions were designed to maximize the verbal violence. Issues be damned: Shake hands once and then come out swinging.

Blitzer announced at the beginning that there wouldn't be a bell to signal candidates that their time to answer a question had run out. Implication: We prefer chaos tonight. And thus our political conversation drifts toward its natural equilibrium, which is somewhere on a level with professional wrestling. (Or football, or boxing, or the circus, all three of which can be found metaphorically jabbing at one another in this morning's story: "With moderator Wolf Blitzer serving as ringmaster and referee, the candidates sparred...") [On second thought this may be an unfair elbow to the ribs, as it's arguably just two metaphors rather than three -- JA.]

The coarsening of American life takes many forms, and presidential politics is hardly immune to the trend. At least no one called Hillary an unprintable name that rhymes with knee-atch.

One might wonder who, exactly, watches these debates. The Onion just ran a story about how the American People have announced that they've dropped out of the 2008 election -- kind of like Sam Brownback. The most-read story on the CNN web site this morning was headlined "Cult Awaits End of Days In Cave," and shockingly it wasn't about the presidential candidates.

Pundits said Hillary had a much better night than she did the last time around. She certainly wanted to remind everyone that she's tough stuff. When Edwards threw out the word 'corrupt" to describe the political system she allegedly defends [here's the CNN transcript: "...the most important issue is she says she will bring change to
Washington, while she continues to defend a system that does not work,
that is broken, that is rigged and is corrupt; corrupted against the
interest of most Americans and corrupted...and corrupted for a very small, very powerful, very
well-financed group
"], she quickly hit back, saying his attack was 'right out of the Republican playbook." She insinuated that Obama's "new politics" is too delicate for the brass-knuckle politics employed by their opponents.

In a steel cage death match I 'd take her over every guy on that stage except maybe the underrated Kucinich, who is the presidential candidate most likely to be secretly a member of the X-Men. (We should abide by international law, he said at one point, but you know he was thinking to himself, "And also intergalactic law.")

Is it being too delicate of temperament to score this debate as shrill? Well, that's the word that popped up right there on stage -- Dodd said it was shrill, and Hillary said Edwards was slinging mud, and Richardson, ever the diplomat, said, "Let us stop this mudslinging. Let us stop going after one another on character and trust. Let us debate the issues that affect the American people, and let us be positive."

NOOOOOO, screamed the CNN producers. Get that guy off stage!!

Things calmed down a bit after the first 20 minutes, and even more when the audience members, actual voters, were permitted to ask questions. Truth be told, as much as the snarling and hissing is off-putting, some of the substantive stuff can get a little stupefying, too. It was a long night. The scariest moment was at 9:50 EST, fully 110 minutes into the program (not counting the pre-game), when Blitzer said there was much more to come. The first Gulf War was shorter than this debate!

Biden said at one point, "The American people don't give a darn about any of this stuff that's going on up here."

Which was maybe a little too close to the truth.


More debate reack:

Cillizza: Clinton set the tone early on by pushing back aggressively against Obama and Edwards and, in our mind, got the best of both exchanges. She was clearly aided by a sympathetic crowd who decided early on that they weren't interested in watching the candidates fight.

Roger Simon: The (rhymes with rich) is back. In a Democratic debate here Thursday night, Hillary Clinton was not the passive, parsing, punching bag that she was at the last debate in Philadelphia two weeks ago. She gave as good as she got. And those who tried to kick her stubbed their toes.

Kos: Would it kill CNN to disclose that James Carville is a partisan Clinton supporter when talking about the presidential race?

Scarecrow at Firedoglake: Hillary won, while CNN made itself look worse than Tim Russert, which I didn't think was possible.

Kevin Drum: Biden is pretty obviously not really running for president. So what is he doing?

Hugh Hewitt: Hillary can be beaten because she is simply the least likeable candidate among the majors: Mike Dukakis without his charm. She is also a radical on healthcare and taxes, and sufficiently anti-war to scare off the people who are serious about the world, and not anti-war enough for the fringe. Her Adminstration would be packed with hard left types eager to settle decades of imagined slights.

Katharine Seelye: ...why, oh why, could she not choose between diamonds and pearls? How easy that should have been, especially with the Diamond District in New York! (Then again, the Yankees' being in her adopted state didn't help her pick them over the Cubs in a hypothetical World Series.) Is there a Pearl District somewhere? In a swing state?


Good accountability reporting by our investigative team on the lame Arctic exhbit at the Smithsonian. Maybe the snarky reporter who first wrote about the exhibit should have dug deeper. [Here's my original story.]

By Joel Achenbach  |  November 16, 2007; 10:50 AM ET
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: No Joy in Mudville if You're Barry Bonds
Next: Mannix & Co.; Plus, Noah's Ark Explained


And is Joel seeing Barry Bonds' pharmacist, or what?

Posted by: byoolin | November 16, 2007 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Those darn snarky reporters. All flash, no follow-through.

I know, byoolin. This is what? five in three days?

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for all the Oklahoma stories in response to my centennial statehood post on the last Kit. K-guy, I understand about the accent completely. We don't tawk lahk thayut but it has taken a conscious effort.

Posted by: Ivansmom | November 16, 2007 11:14 AM | Report abuse

SD, based on almost no information (but when has that ever stopped me before?) about the dark noisy gregarious birds you saw, my guess is they were grackles. If you had ever seen a scissor tailed flycatcher swooping after insects in the prairie dusk, you would not forget. They are beauty and grace on the wing.

Posted by: kurosawaguy | November 16, 2007 11:14 AM | Report abuse

At this point in the game I wonder how many uncommitted Democratic voters are really out there. It seems to me that any Democrat who is motivated enough to take part in a caucus or primary election probably isn't sitting on the fence anymore. I certainly have no interest in watching these debates. I've made up my mind.

Of course, if they were to do a real cage match I might become more engaged. Especially if they wear cool costumes.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 16, 2007 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Oklahoma... that name rings a bell. Say, isn't that the place where the wind comes sweeping down the plain?

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Ivansmom, enjoy the day.

I will say again I do not know how everyone copes with the never ending "election cycle".

Posted by: dmd | November 16, 2007 11:21 AM | Report abuse

RD, I think Liz had a picture of Hillary's cage match outfit in Celebritology yesterday:

Posted by: byoolin | November 16, 2007 11:23 AM | Report abuse

That is one of the bonuses about being Canadian, dmd.

Don't we have a law about how many weeks election campaigns can run?

Posted by: dr | November 16, 2007 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Time for a remake of "Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome" with HRC as Aunty Entity, Obama as Max, Kucinich and Richardson as Master\Blaster, Edwards as Aviator, the White House press corps as the pigs, etc. The whole steel cage death match scenario only works if you retain the Judgement Wheel from the original, though. The possible outcomes on the Wheel are: - Death - Hard Labour - Acquittal - Gulag - Aunty's Choice - Spin Again - Forfeit Goods - Underworld - Amputation - Life Imprisonment. Sounds like Oscar bait to me!

Posted by: kurosawaguy | November 16, 2007 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Thanks K-guy.
Stupid grackle huh?
It looks like they are a problem around the city.

Posted by: shrieking denizen | November 16, 2007 11:39 AM | Report abuse

byoolin, the comments under Liz's post are hilarious.

Posted by: jp1954 | November 16, 2007 11:42 AM | Report abuse

dr, I think it's 47 days from announcement to election, innit?

Posted by: byoolin | November 16, 2007 11:42 AM | Report abuse

I recall watching TV the night Reagan was elected, defeating Carter. Conservative fundraiser Richard Viguerie was ensconced in an incredibly ornate room at the Capitol, snarling that Reagan would be dumped if he strayed from the Viguerie's version of the strait and narrow. I remembered the performance because of the chutzpah involved, not realizing that I was seeing the future of American politics. The cage matches are seemingly nothing compared to the fundraising.

Posted by: Dave of the Coonties | November 16, 2007 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I had to look this up, minimum for a Canadian federal election is 36 days, there is no maximum, spending limitations keep the number of days low.

Posted by: dmd | November 16, 2007 11:53 AM | Report abuse

The kerfluffle at the Smithsonian about the Arctic exhibit reminds me of a similar controversy in the 1990's regarding the Enola Gay exhibit. Apparently, not enough text was included with the exhibit condemning nuclear war to suit anti-nuclear-war types, and some people objected to having the bomber displayed at all. When the Smithsonian closed the exhibit briefly (I think it was to review and revise it) they got lots of heat from conservatives who complained about "political correctness." It seems now we're just seeing a new - conservative - form of political correctness being expressed at the Smith. The more things change, etc. etc.

Posted by: jp1954 | November 16, 2007 11:55 AM | Report abuse

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Posted by: omni | November 16, 2007 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I'm surprised that no one has accused any of the more aggressive participants in last night's debate of steroid use.

I liked the opening rounds when Hillary and Barrack started throwing Health Care haymakers, but realized that they couldn't knock each other out and went back to their planned match stratgies.

Ahh, politics: the other sweet science.


Posted by: bc | November 16, 2007 11:59 AM | Report abuse

I'd like to ask, Who's flipflopping now?" I suppose it's hard for you Easterners to get all riled up about Westerners, and probably vice versa...

CNN's Roberts in particular had clearly done his homework on Yucca Mountain, the proposed nuclear waste dump about 100 miles from Las Vegas that the state and most of its residents oppose.

He reminded Obama that Illinois gets nearly half its energy from nuclear power, which produces waste that has to be stored somewhere.

"The question is, if not in your backyard, whose?" Roberts asked.

"I don't think it's fair to send it to Nevada because we're producing it," Obama said. He said he would pursue research into a new solution "based on sound science," the catchphrase President Bush has repeated as his administration has continued to press the project forward, even amid scientific doubts.

Richardson, a former secretary of energy, claimed, "All my life, as secretary of energy, as a congressman, I opposed the site." But Richardson in Congress voted for a bill that designated Yucca as the place for the waste storage, and as energy secretary did not stop the project.

Asked about it after the debate, Richardson flatly denied that he had ever voted Yucca forward or otherwise helped it along.

The focus on Nevada and its issues intensified in the second portion of the debate, when handpicked Nevada Democrats, seated in front of the stage, got to ask candidates questions directly.

Their concerns reinforced that Nevadans, while they might have different perspectives than Iowans and New Hampshire residents, share the worries of America as a whole.

Posted by: Loomis | November 16, 2007 12:01 PM | Report abuse

I added a bunch of links. Yeah, that Balco stuff is kickin' in, baby!!! STAND BACK AND LET THE BIG DOG LINK.

Posted by: Achenbach | November 16, 2007 12:06 PM | Report abuse

I was trying to watch the debate, but a candle party downstairs and children upstairs left me little choice but to run about the house a bit frenetically. When I finally got a chance to settle in and watch the last 1/2 hour, our daughter sent word from the upstairs that Blazing Saddles was on. I caught Congressman Kucinich in his impeach him moment and thought of Mr. Cheswick in Cuckoo's Nest when he began to lose it when Nurse Ratchet wouldn't let him have his cigarettes. Watching Blazing Saddles, which has been aired a lot lately, was a far better way to spend my time at that point.

Posted by: jack | November 16, 2007 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Joel, I think you neglected to link to Wolf Blitzer's excellent introduction to the debate. I found it in the transcript. Here it is:

Blitzer: "Listen all! This is the truth of it. Politics leads to campaigning. And campaigning gets to mudslinging. And that was d@mn near the death of us all. Look at us now! Busted up and everyone talking about hard choices! But we've learned, by the dust of them all... Crawford, Texas, learned. Now, when men get to fighting, it happens here! And it finishes here! Seven candidates enter; one candidate leaves.

"She's the ball-cracker. Death on foot. You know her. You love her! She's...Hillary!!" [Hillary enters Thunderdome.] "The challenger: direct from out of the heartland that is Chicago! He's black, he's beautiful, he's young! It's...It's the man with no experience!" [Obama enters Thunderdome]

"All our lives hang by a thread. Now we got a candidate waiting for election. But ain't it the truth: you take your chances with the law, justice is only a roll of the dice. A flip of the coin. A turn of the Wheel. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls... cryin' time's here!"

(Thanks to K-guy for the inspiration.)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Joel: At first glance, I thought this link would be of utility with respect to hair...context is so often misleading.

Posted by: jack | November 16, 2007 12:43 PM | Report abuse

...and while the boodle gently sleeps, a link to today's Spanish lesson...

Posted by: jack | November 16, 2007 12:47 PM | Report abuse

...and from the if-it-smells-like-a-roach files:

Posted by: jack | November 16, 2007 12:52 PM | Report abuse

How did I miss the memo about this important conference in San Diego this weekend?

Posted by: dmd | November 16, 2007 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Instead of Wolf Blitzer doing the intro to the debate, CNN should have brought in Michael Buffer:


Posted by: bc | November 16, 2007 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't there a methane-generating pigpen under Thunderdome? Perfect locale for a presidential debate.

Posted by: Dave of the Coonties | November 16, 2007 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Echoing the themes of Smithsonian and non-mainstream religion, you might want to check out the exhibit on Rastafarianism at the NMNH. BYOG- bring your own ganja.

Posted by: kurosawaguy | November 16, 2007 1:10 PM | Report abuse

I am reliably informed that the "Discovering Rastafari" exhibit closed 11/08. Sorry, my bad. Guess something temporarily destroyed my sense of the passage of time. Doh!

Posted by: kurosawaguy | November 16, 2007 1:17 PM | Report abuse

*flashing back to the ABC ripoff of SNL and the "Ganja Gourmet" with his herb of choice*


Posted by: Scottynuke | November 16, 2007 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Yep, Dave, pigsh1t was the motive force underlying Bartertown. That's why I proposed casting the White House press corps as the pigs in my remake. I'm open to other suggestions. Lobbyists? Pundits? FEMA staffers in pig suits?

Posted by: kurosawaguy | November 16, 2007 1:29 PM | Report abuse

a "ball-cracker"? I suspect Mrs. Clinton may need a whole lot of Secret Servicemen before this circus is over. There just might be a creep out there that believes he's doing the world a favor.

Have a good time, Ivansmom.

I did get the letter in this morning,(in response to the virtues of slavery) and received an email stating that it may take some time before it is printed for all to see. It may end up floating in cyberspace somewhere or deleted.

I really don't think anyone should highlight the fact that Obama lacks experience especially when stressing that point during this administration. It sort of like, duh.

Posted by: Cassandra S | November 16, 2007 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I have a feeling I know where Pop Socket will show up in short order...


Posted by: Scottynuke | November 16, 2007 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Love that "robot and the roaches" article jack. So can we assume from this that an android might make people do things they otherwise wouldn't? 'Cause this would put the unusual influence of the Vice President in a whole new light.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 16, 2007 1:44 PM | Report abuse

One of the reasons people support a flat tax is that they assume THEIR taxes would go down under such a system, which once the numbers are cranked, almost never proves to be true. There's a reason Steve Forbes was the biggest proponent of it. The AMT is the operative example of that.

I have to follow the link to see if the following statement is true:

"Judging from their comments on this blog, they [Paulites] combine passion with good manners, and enjoy a good debate."

Either those are different Paultards than I'm used to, or my sarcasmometer needs calibrating.

Posted by: Pop Socket | November 16, 2007 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Attraction to the smell of a roach is nothing new. Heck, I can remember once at this Hendrix concert...

Posted by: kurosawaguy | November 16, 2007 1:58 PM | Report abuse


"Iron Candidate America?"


"Hell's Dais?"



Posted by: bc | November 16, 2007 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I'm back. "Good manners" is highly subjective, but the Ronbots are definitely getting the benefit of the doubt. However, they are just as fond of CAPITAL LETTERS as I used to be.

Posted by: Pop Socket | November 16, 2007 2:02 PM | Report abuse

jp1954, your cynicism about the Enola Gay exhibit is correct, but you have the complainants exactly backwards. There was much complaint and moaning and wailing about the exhibit doing insufficient rah-rah cheerleading for the rightness of the decision to vaporize a city. You describe petty bickering from the left, but the majority of exhibit-closing complaints in the last several decades, in many museums, has come from the right.

I think we should all take it as given that war is bad, and that mighty and indiscriminate weapons of war (nukes) are a bad thing to use. Only by understanding that these things are intrinsically bad can we have a genuine discussion of whether there are some things that are worse. The only justification for fighting and killing is that it is worse not to do so. The fuss over Enola Gay came from the exhibit designers wanting to actually frame the discussion that could lead to this sort of judgment by history -- was it right to bomb Hiroshima? and what about the following bomb on Nagasaki?

The complaints were from the camp that felt that we should take it as written that history already had judged the bombing(s) as right and proper, end of discussion, now shut up and eat your granola, no more talking. I have inside information that the original exhibit script was viewed by some as revisionist history that explicitly sought to condemn the U.S. I have my doubts about the veracity of this report, but it is an arguable point. The problem with the Enola Gay exhibit is that political pressure deprived the public of the opportunity for a legitimate argument over the decision to use nuclear weapons. We remain the only nation that has ever done so. Surely that conveys some special responsibility to periodically revisit the decision every now and then.

I don't doubt that Truman made an honest and serious decision based on evaluating the information available to him. I don't doubt that he considered the moral weight of taking all those lives, comparing it to his responsibility to make decisions over the lives of so many soldiers. He had no good choices, only bad ones with relative levels of badness. We can't improve our current decision-making abilities, however, unless we grapple with the issue of whether the additional information that we now have available to us would have swayed the decisions in the other direction. Truman had to make predictions about the foreseeable consequences of the decision. We have the results available to us from one of the outcomes of Truman's decision, including data that were not available to him at the time as well as ensuing results. Does history support the predictions that factored into Truman's decision-making? The exhibit that actually was presented did not seriously address any of these issues.

Posted by: ScienceTim | November 16, 2007 2:03 PM | Report abuse

I have absolutely no doubt that the Smithsonian exhibit was intentionally "re-phrased" to evade criticism from entrenched interests. I agree that it is bad that blustering politicians are able to stifle public presentation of the basic facts that the public needs to know in order to make informed decisions. I can tell you that I encounter this sort of problem all the time when I make public presentations. I'm not so worried about politicians, who don't even know I exist (which is why funding is so hard to come by), but I have knee-jerk reactions from the public to deal with. For instance, I can talk about planets and history and changes in climate and changes in atmospheric chemistry, and I can even mention time scales of billions of years. However, I contort myself to avoid ever saying the word "evolution." There is a substantial fraction of the population -- arguably, the most important fraction for me to reach -- whose ears turn off at the keyword "evolution." They can understand the facts, they understand the processes, they understand the inferences, they see that it all makes sense. But if you say "evolution" they turn off their ears and flush out their brains, because they have been told evolution will lead them to hell, in the literal sense.

Interestingly, the same people who feel that evolution is not real and that all evidence of active evolution (e.g., London's peppermoths) can be written off as human-induced "micro-evolution", are the same people who think that humanity is not responsible for global warming. Surely we can't be so powerful that we could mess up God's creation. Yet, we are powerful enough to defy God's plan and create "micro-evolution" where absolute stability would have reigned otherwise. I'm sure similar false modesty played into the hunting-to-extinction of the Steller's sea cow, the dodo, and the passenger pigeon.

Posted by: ScienceTim | November 16, 2007 2:17 PM | Report abuse

The Enola Gay fuselage (since that is the only part that would fit in the NASM) was put on display in the NASM on the mall while the rest of the plane was being restored. This exhibit, which was never meant to be permanent, was the source of the controversy. The fuselage was later removed to be reunited with the rest of the plane and moved to the UHC.

The displays at UHC do not have any interpretive narrative like NASM exhibits do, so the bombing interpretation argument is moot.

One of my pictures of it as currently displayed:

Posted by: yellojkt | November 16, 2007 2:21 PM | Report abuse

I just had this mental image of little robotic pied pipers leading all the cockroaches out of New York City into the Hudson, with all the roaches singing "Roachtown Races" as they march front left, middle right, back left, front right, middle left, back right, doo-dah..

And as they leave, half of New York City shivers then collapses.

And now for something completely different: the circuitry hooking up genes seems to differ drastically between humans and chimps. D'oh!

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 16, 2007 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I am told that it is no accident, but rather a point of institutional style, that "informational" placards at the Smithsonian have no historical interpretation of any artifact. They will tell you what it is called, where it was found, and so on, but that's it. Often, not even what it was for. You can be shown a whole case full of ancient coins, covering a thousand years in a civilization's history, and be told nothing so helpful as their historical ordering and what they tell us about the culture through time. The most ludicrous example is in "Milestones of Flight" where the plaque for one of the war planes tells you about its motors and manufacturing date, but there is nothing to tell you why it is a milestone. Historical research is left as an exercise for the visitor.

Posted by: ScienceTim | November 16, 2007 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Oh yes, people tend to accept science just as far as they dare go. They're on a "prove every case basis" when it comes to evolution, especially if they don't think well mathematically.

Some of them wouldn't even want to believe the earth goes around the sun if it wasn't so well established that they feared looking silly for believing the bible's literal truth in that regard.

However I remember a born-again guy saying he didn't believe in the explanation of gravity because why didn't the moon fall towards the sun when it had its perihelion during its earthly orbit. I knew but not well enough to explain, and he wasn't really interested in knowing why anyway.

Sometimes it scares me how strongly people believe that everything in the universable must be comprehensible to them in less than 10 seconds in order for it to be true.
It seems to me an order of hubris and a form of blasphemy to God to deny how complex, ancient, and wonderful the universe is. But some people are just plain agoraphobic in their thinking skills.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 16, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

The creationists have seemed blasphemers to me for a long,long time.

Come to think of it, I'll be coming and going from Dulles in December and might have the chance to come into town for a Saturday.

Posted by: Dave of the Coonties | November 16, 2007 2:48 PM | Report abuse

there will be no thinking outside the

yello, you got some cool pictures there. The label for IMG_0314 is a bit off though. Just a little typo for sure.

Posted by: omni | November 16, 2007 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Man, my loyalties are torn today. I am a confirmed Achenaddict. But gosh darn it. Over at Liz's place they are discussing Star Wars. And ponies.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 16, 2007 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Which Star Wars episode had ponies?

Posted by: omni | November 16, 2007 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the heads up. the caption now reads:

X-35 later to become the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter

Posted by: yellojkt | November 16, 2007 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Go forth, RD. It's very rare that Liz's chat is interesting, carpe diem. May the force be with you. Giddyup.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 16, 2007 3:06 PM | Report abuse

I just realized how that sounded. Ouch. But TV/movie/musican celebrity gossip is rather dull. It's all a media coverage sham to keep them "famous for being famous."

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 16, 2007 3:22 PM | Report abuse

oops, similar label issue with IMG_0328

Posted by: omni | November 16, 2007 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Oh oh, what do I see falling from the sky? Manna? It's either that or I'll get home in wet shoes.

Posted by: shrieking denizen | November 16, 2007 3:25 PM | Report abuse

yeah but RD, you gotta keep that red hair thing under control.

Posted by: dr | November 16, 2007 3:26 PM | Report abuse

The nomenclature on that plane is a little fuzzy. The NASM websites call it the X-35, but a lot of other places call it the XF-35 since it was the prototype for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Posted by: yellojkt | November 16, 2007 3:33 PM | Report abuse

But it fits in so nicely with my Spiderman fixation, what with MJ and all.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 16, 2007 3:34 PM | Report abuse

The end is nigh?

Comet 17P/Holmes is now bigger than the sun! (Wait for the backlash on *that* - it will make John's comment about The Beatles seem like a f*rt in a hurricane.);

Posted by: byoolin | November 16, 2007 3:48 PM | Report abuse

"It seems to me an order of hubris and a form of blasphemy to God to deny how complex, ancient, and wonderful the universe is. But some people are just plain agoraphobic in their thinking skills."

Amen, Wilbrod, amen.

God's time is not our time, and he has no need to see anything completed in a hurry. I am astounded at the way creationists deny his patience and the wonder and beauty of the consequences of that patience.

Posted by: Slyness | November 16, 2007 3:53 PM | Report abuse

yello, we had the X-35 (and its competition, the X-32) down at Pax River when I worked there. It isn't that the nomenclature is fuzzy; it is that it changes over the life of the plane. The original test version prototypes was (and remain) the X-35 (I believe there were three). There won't be an F-35 until one is actually produced and sent into service, which I think will be sometime this year or next. In the meanwhile, the test versions (there will be 22, from the briefings I heard) are the XF-35s. The reason it is called a "joint" strike fighter is because three branches will use it: Air Force, Navy and Marines.

See for instance:

The key grafs: "During the testing and development phase, which is estimated to cost some $33 to $40 billion, 22 F-35 aircraft will be produced; eight of them will be static test aircraft and 14 will be flying models [these will be XF-35s--Curmudgeon]. Nine of those 14 will be tested here [at Pax River], while the other five will be tested by the Air Force at Edwards Air Force Base.

"The F-35 is not really a single aircraft, but rather a "family" of three variants. After the test phase, the Air Force will get 1,763 conventional-take-off-and-landing versions (the F-35A) to replace it's A-10 Thunderbolt and F-16 Fighting Falcon aircraft. The Navy and Marine Corps will purchase 680 carrier versions and short-take-off-vertical-landing versions (the F-35C and F-35B). Great Britain's Royal Navy and Royal Air Force will purchase 150 F-35s, bringing the grand total to 2,593 aircraft. Beyond this $220 billion worth of aircraft, half a dozen foreign nations who are partners in the project will purchase an estimated 700 F-35s."

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 4:01 PM | Report abuse

SCC: The F-35 won't go into service for a few years; it's the XF-35 test versions coming out this year or next.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Oh my gosh... why don't you guys start discussing The Flash?

Posted by: TBG | November 16, 2007 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Jet fighters are so completely cool. They speak to men's inner cowboy-child. Can we talk about the F-22 Raptor, too? It's supposed to be "out" by now, isn't it?

Posted by: CowTown | November 16, 2007 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Just called a friend of mine: delivery of the first XF-35s to Pax has slipped (what a surprise) to late 2008 or 2009.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 4:14 PM | Report abuse

TBG raises a good point: who is faster, the Flash or an X-35?

Cowtown, the Raptor is "so yesterday" that it has already been on an episode of Mr. Monk.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 4:16 PM | Report abuse

*chortling and thinking of TBG screaming and pulling her hair out*

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Well, TBG perhaps we could discuss where I could find a nice Christmas Shower Curtain while the boys are discussing whatever it is they are discussing :-)

Posted by: dmd | November 16, 2007 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Well, that figures. I don't get HBO. Now I know what I'm missing. Let's drive TBG absolutely bonkers with an impassioned discussion regarding why variable geometry wing configuations disappeared from tactical fighters in the 20th Century.

Posted by: CowTown | November 16, 2007 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Or baseball? or knitting? Or recipes?

My dad flew F-4Es in Vietnam and F-4Gs in Korea. He has a plaque in his office noting 100 missions over North Vietnam as a FAC. I once asked him if F-4s were too fast for for forward air command. He said, "Yeah, that's why they didn't do it for very long." And that was all he would say of it.

He was captain of the PACAF William Tell team in 1978. They had to fly their planes from Clark AFB, PI to Florida and back. That's a lot of bathroom breaks.

He was also a gunrunner to Iran. He delivered an F-4 to the Royal Iranian Air Force and came back with a nice samovar.

Posted by: yellojkt | November 16, 2007 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Hey, it's not like certain somebodies didn't go into the shop steward's office while I was away and slather doilies and lladro all over the place, ya know.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Just wait till the holiday decorations arrive Mudge!

Posted by: dmd | November 16, 2007 4:26 PM | Report abuse

When my dad was at TAC command at Langley, we all went out to see the delivery of the first A-10. Now that was one ugly plane. I once asked why the official speed of the F-15 was listed as Mach 2 and the F-4's was 2.5. He said, "Too many people have flown an F-4."

Posted by: yellojkt | November 16, 2007 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Swear to god, dmd, when I got home from work last evening my wife was looking at a silver tray she'd found at a thrift store yesterday that said "Merry Christmas" on it, and there was some kinda Santa Claus inflatable thing she got for three bucks.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 4:31 PM | Report abuse

The only good thing to come about as a result of the F-111 was that the Rooskis stole the design for the MiG-23 Flogger.

Posted by: yellojkt | November 16, 2007 4:31 PM | Report abuse

At least...I assume it was for decoration...

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, Cowtown, I mistook your for SciTim. How's the Star Wars debate going?

Posted by: yellojkt | November 16, 2007 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Let's talk about shoes...

Did you know that has free overnight delivery? Both directions? So if they don't fit or if you don't like them you can return them for free as well.

I like the mules, but if you like pumps or slingbacks they've got lots of those, too.

And don't even get me talking about the handbags and purses. I could go on all day...

Posted by: TBG | November 16, 2007 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Oh, it's OK, except someone keeps trying to change the subject. Something about Britney Spears and driving. And ponies.

No. No. Not Britney Spears and ponies.

Posted by: CowTown | November 16, 2007 4:37 PM | Report abuse

I hope it wasn't a prototype for one of these!

Posted by: dmd | November 16, 2007 4:37 PM | Report abuse

" Every major pundit -- Blitzer, Russert, Matthews -- is a complete and total idiot. Jeezus, where are the Walter Cronkites, the Edward R Murrows? This generation of 'journalists' would have been better suited to be circus clowns."

Someone commented that on another site. I agree. I had brief hopes that the candidates would arise en masse and just beat up Blitzer. This would have been rockin' good TV, and made people vote Democrat. Biden and Edwards and Richardson were all ready to roll against Blitzer and CNN. The others were not. It is said that the revolution will not be televised. It may have almost been.

Posted by: Jumper | November 16, 2007 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Are Britney and the ponies appearing in Tijuana? I've heard about that show, but never seen it.

Posted by: crc | November 16, 2007 4:45 PM | Report abuse

I bet I know what David Levy's "research" consisted of.

Isaac Asimov already covered that issue in his sequels to "Pebble in the Sky", including the "The Robots of Dawn."

I hope Roboporn isn't the future of robot sci-fi, though.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 16, 2007 4:45 PM | Report abuse

I rue the day my wife discovered Zappos. One of those boxes hits our front door about weekly.

Posted by: yellojkt | November 16, 2007 4:46 PM | Report abuse

dmd, it won't work, at least not for men my age who saw Westworld and Blade Runner.

Posted by: CowTown | November 16, 2007 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Jumper this is for you, recent skit about Blitzer on Canadian TV. If the link doesn't go right to the video, it aired Nov. 6 - called Situation Room.

Posted by: dmd | November 16, 2007 4:47 PM | Report abuse

When I was back-boodling and saw the reference to a delay in delivery of aircraft to Pax I thought that meant Pakistan and was thinking well, yeah. I recall there was an issue of delivery of F-16s to Pakistan; wonder what's become of that.

yellojkt: wasn't the F111 Bush's aircraft or was he flying the F105?

Posted by: SonofCarl | November 16, 2007 4:51 PM | Report abuse

The number of F35 on order keep shrinking, apparently there is a costly war on or something.
I listened to 5 minutes of the debate last night and came to the conclusion that John Roberts of CNN is a partisan idiot. Have you heard his diatribe against teacher unions that was supposed to be a question to Hillary? He's just another outragist.
The tall dark candidate (Richardson?) seem pretty at ease with most issues IMHO.

Posted by: shrieking denizen | November 16, 2007 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Soc, the F111 was flying in Vietnam, the F105 wasn't. Now guess which reserve unit W used his daddy's influence to join?

Posted by: shrieking denizen | November 16, 2007 4:59 PM | Report abuse

SofC, the F111 was a "light" bomber that held a crew of two or three. Bush flew an F-105 (I think) which was a single seat fighter.

Posted by: CowTown | November 16, 2007 5:00 PM | Report abuse

I've heard tell that the A-12 Oxcart was a fairly impressive flying machine.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 16, 2007 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Pretty sure Dubya flew F-105s. They were farmed out to ANG units once the Phantom II came online. It was called the "Thud" for a reason. My dad's F-4 buddies had nothing good to say about it.

Posted by: yellojkt | November 16, 2007 5:01 PM | Report abuse

And for something completely dorky--

"Yay! I got another C! That's C for Casey!"
"That's nothing... I got TWO Ds for David. I rock, dude!"

Dunno, because people don't pick their names, this can be a marker for other biases (ethnic naming systems; trendy names-- Chris* is an extremely common name).

I'd also analyze the C and D names by gender and see if there is in fact a gender or generational skew in the grad school population.

The most popular boys and girls name in the 1980's strongly suggest that, in fact, C and D name frequency may be skewed to males.

Since graduate school is selective of those who graduated college and qualified to be admitted, this may mean there is an unconscious bias towards accepting poorer-quality male applicants that have familiar names that are easy to remember... and perhaps.

I call bollocks on this analysis. If they had reliably shown there is an effect in the elementary or secondary school system, I'd take this result more seriously.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 16, 2007 5:04 PM | Report abuse

When the A-10 came out, it was officially the Thunderbolt II. It quickly got called the Warthog by the pilots and the name stuck.

Posted by: yellojkt | November 16, 2007 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Yes, I believe you're right, RD.

Posted by: TBG | November 16, 2007 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Thanks dmd. Nice to know I'm not the only one.

Posted by: Jumper | November 16, 2007 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Hey! Those really fast fast tan pointy jets did a formation flyover to start the Centennial parade this morning. It was a great whooosh!boom.

I believe "fast fast tan pointy" is an official designation.

Have I mentioned that it is TOO EARLY to watch the "debates"? Although I like the idea of the candidates rising up against the "moderator". Also, I want to see Dennis Kucinich's Steel Death Cage costume.

Posted by: Ivansmom | November 16, 2007 5:10 PM | Report abuse

I am particularly fond of fast fast tan pointy jets. They definitely speak to my inner Cowboy-Child.

Posted by: CowTown | November 16, 2007 5:29 PM | Report abuse

I'm going over to the Bunker right now to paint it pink and lavender. Anyone want to help?

Posted by: Maggie O'D | November 16, 2007 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Wilbrod, I think everybody in their right mind is just waiting for the debunking to be completed. However, my daughter is getting better grades in college with an A-name than she did in high school with her original D-name. So you can't prove anything by that.

I was over at the Tulsa World this afternoon and read an article about Indians protesting the Oklahoma centennial celebration. There's a lively discussion in the comments section with a wide variety of views represented.

Posted by: kbertocci | November 16, 2007 5:50 PM | Report abuse

SD, yeah, but he's ummm, Canadian.

Well, Canadian born anyway. Like I said...

Posted by: dr | November 16, 2007 5:54 PM | Report abuse

Me, me, pick me, Maggie!

Posted by: dr | November 16, 2007 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Of course, dr. I'm thinking of stripes for the front entry. Too daring?

Posted by: Maggie O'D | November 16, 2007 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Maggie... Lemme pleeeeeze paint the bunker's foyer (pronounced "foy-yay") a lovely shade of aqua...

Posted by: TBG | November 16, 2007 6:10 PM | Report abuse

The Bunker interior shall be decorated with plastic fighter jet models and deer antlers! And Sports Illustrated swimsuit calendars. And there'll be Outside magazines on EVERY END TABLE!

Posted by: CowTown | November 16, 2007 6:15 PM | Report abuse

My dear Cowtown, I am immune to deer antlers. Deeply, fundamentally, seriously immune.

And I know how to decorate them too.

Posted by: dr | November 16, 2007 6:44 PM | Report abuse

And that is just the front entrance.

Posted by: dr | November 16, 2007 6:45 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: mostlylurking | November 16, 2007 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Someday I will blog about my adventures with kb at the Miami Book Fair, but since CowTown is here today, let me just mention that there is a Cowtown Bar in the Dallas Airport. I was not quickwitted enough to get a picture...I think it's somewhere among the A gates.

Posted by: mostlylurking | November 16, 2007 6:50 PM | Report abuse

A CLIP FROM "CELEBRITOLOGY Live Chat", with Liz Kelly, TODAY (I lurk so you don't have to)

Chat comparisons: Has doing this chat made you more impressed or less impressed with Gene's prodigious chatting skills?

Liz Kelly: Oh more. Way more. Gene puts so much time into his chat. Seriously, the live hour is just the tip of the iceberg. He spends at least 10 hours a week on chat prep, debriefing and poll-building.

He's a little OCD.


Debriefing: Liz, you were joking when you referred to Gene "debriefing", right?

Liz Kelly: Ha. HAHAHA. I didn't mean it that way.


This public service sighting of Gene W. brought to you courtesy of

Shoes: Eat. Breathe. Live. REpeat.

Posted by: College Chatian | November 16, 2007 7:02 PM | Report abuse

End Tables? Bit la-di-da don'tcha think?
Can we have Harley Davidson napkin rings?

Posted by: Boko999 | November 16, 2007 7:04 PM | Report abuse

DR -- your photos run the gamut, with knitting juxtaposed to Char Catch, Circa 1970s. Wow.

Let's redo the ready room with antlers, yet flock them for the holidays. Shall we try a lime green/amethyst pink to go with TBG light aqua walls....a sort of fifties holiday look complete with a metallic aluminum xmas tree?

Posted by: College Parkian | November 16, 2007 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Gotcha covered with that retro look, CP.

Did you all see this latest mixture of money, politics and the Smithsonian?

Posted by: TBG | November 16, 2007 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Let's not forget the four-footed stalwart guardians of the bunker.

There should be stuffed kittens buried in the baskets of yarn for us to chew on and play fetch with.

Oh, and baskets full of deliciously stuffed kongs with nice chewable squeaky cloth covers. An umbrella stand full of bully sticks would also be awesome. And don't forget to stock up with food and water and extra leashes and so on for the necessities of life. Dog beds or extra sofas are awesome, too.

THEN maybe I'll happily wear something stupid that goes with the decor. I draw the line at wearing pants of any sort, though.

Posted by: Wilbrodog | November 16, 2007 7:20 PM | Report abuse

The antlers look divine with each tip ending in a bow. And they do look tres chic in hats.

Seriously, We don't post a lot of photos of these things, but it is very much part of who mr dr is. It is part of his view of mans place in the grand scheme of things. It goes right along with my love of natural things and old pursuits.

I'm not going to post pictures of the garage, cause even I don't beleive that.

We're cutting the big tree up this weekend. We will do a ring count, but I don't think its going to be more than 80-90 years. The really big trees are from about 1890, the last time there was a major forest fire in the general area.

Posted by: dr | November 16, 2007 7:31 PM | Report abuse


check items 1, 2 and 4. Can do.

Posted by: dr | November 16, 2007 7:33 PM | Report abuse

Here's an idea for sofa cushions

Posted by: kbertocci | November 16, 2007 7:38 PM | Report abuse

*sobbing quietly*

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 7:45 PM | Report abuse

KB -- Can I drive with that fish riding shotgun? I sorta want that thing.


Off to take CPBoy to the ice rink, where they go round and round and round, to all sorts of music ranging from

Soulja Boy
Hokey Pokey.

Ain't life grand.

Posted by: College Parkian | November 16, 2007 7:45 PM | Report abuse

Gotta inject a bit of fact-correcting here. Bush flew (when he decided to show up) the F-102 Delta Dagger, not 105s. The F-105 was called the Thunderchief officially, b@st@rdized (rightly so) into the Thunderthud, shortened to Thud. The F-102 was not a great aircraft even in its heyday, but was obsolete by the mid 60s. They retired them as soon as they could, and basically gave them away to various Air National Guard outfits to play with. So basically Arbusto was flying the military equivalent of 20-year-old Pinto. It was basically a fighter/interceptor, but was barely capable of going up against a healthy Michigan mosquito. So George wasn't exactly poised out at the tip of the spear, if ya know what I mean.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 7:55 PM | Report abuse

I want that, KB! I want that! How did you know that I love fish?

Posted by: Wilbrodog | November 16, 2007 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Mudge, good to know that the future president was never in danger, except from himself.

Ladies, ladies! If you want a Fraser fir for the Christmas tree in the bunker, just let me know and I'll get and fax it tomorrow. We found ours today, at a place where there are many lovely ones. Will a nine-footer do, or do you want one bigger?

Posted by: Slyness | November 16, 2007 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Far be it from a color-blind dog to comment, but perhaps the rainbow trout or marlin would also be good?

Posted by: Wilbrodog | November 16, 2007 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Don't forget the singing bass.

I think my father in law has the whole collection, I am sure I could absoond with one or two.

Posted by: dmd | November 16, 2007 8:23 PM | Report abuse

Yesterday, I woke up to find THREE new kits. Today, there's just 1 new kit so that's not too bad. Still there's a lot to catch up on.

Happy Belated Oklahoma Day, Ivansmon. IIRC OK is flat, flat, flat. Not that it's bad. Just different from Missouri which is undulating. In MO, there are many memorial plaques along the trail of the Trail of Tears.

Posted by: rainforest | November 16, 2007 8:51 PM | Report abuse

I like a variety of needle arts, and enjoy home decorating, but for the life of me can't figure out why any topic could be more interesting than military aircraft, unless of course one drifts from fixed to rotary wing. But,that just increases the fascination factor X100.

BTW, our latest military aircraft transfer to Pakistan was late last month-RAWALPINDI: The US formally handed over 26 Bell-412 helicopters and four completely refurbished Cobra helicopters to the Pakistan Army at a ceremony held here on Monday.

US Ambassador Anne Patterson handed the helicopters over to Defence Secretary Kamran Rasool.

Rasool thanked the US government and said that the induction of these helicopters into the army would significantly enhance their operational capabilities.

Speaking at the formalising ceremony of the final acceptance and transfer of 25 Bell-412 helicopters to the army at Qasim Airbase, Patterson praised Pakistan Army Aviation and said that the induction of these helicopters would strengthen their efforts to fight extremism and bring peace and stability to the region. She said the day marked a new chapter in Army Aviation's history.

Read it all here:

My take on this is that helicopters are infinitely more useful in a coup than fast movers.

Posted by: frostbitten | November 16, 2007 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Is it okay if I bring some lights for the bunker? I mean Xmas lights, the ones that are different colors. I love Christmas lights. Will the lights fit your color scheme?

Posted by: Cassandra S | November 16, 2007 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Cassandra, any Christmas lights will fit the color scheme!

Posted by: Slyness | November 16, 2007 9:19 PM | Report abuse

I went out a few minutes ago to get a salad from Sub Station, and on the way back home, I thought about my son. Holidays always bring him to mind. And it is just so sad for me. I am thankful for my many blessings, yet I miss my son terribly. I don't want to kill the boodle or make any of you sad, it just that the loss almost consumes me at times. I am looking forward to the holidays with the bright lights and smiling children (my grandchildren also)reeking with anticipation for Santa. I believe that is one of the things that I miss most about being a child, that sense of wonder and excitement. We loose that as adults, some of us anyway.

I am off to bed. Sleep well, boodle, and enjoy your weekend.

Posted by: Cassandra S | November 16, 2007 9:23 PM | Report abuse

Well, everybody knows that helicopters are cool.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 16, 2007 9:23 PM | Report abuse

*memo to self: add military aircraft to list of verboten kit topics, along with the Flash. In future kit discussions with fellow XYs, use secret code phrase "pink taffeta" to indicate military aircraft, and "lovely organza" to denote civilian aircraft. Use "tassels" to denote rotary aircraft. Try to convince unknowledgable female Boodlers "Enola Gay" is the name of new Italian cast member of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. Discuss with legal counsel [not Ivansmom; try Bil Everything or SofC] feasibility of getting restraining order preventing yellojkt from ever again posting links to his photo collection of taffeta and tassels.*

*additional memo to self: NEVER, EVER leave bunker or shop steward's office unlocked over the weekend EVER again*

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Happy OK Day! I visited Tulsa and Muskogee, OK last year for a gathering of Leon Russell fans. Leon, of course, is from Lawton, OK. My sister and I visited the Five Civilized Tribes Museum:
What a patronizing name - I'm not quite sure what to make of it, or what the tribes thought about it. Anyway, it's a nice museum - had an art show when we were there with some fabulous pieces - near a park. It's actually on a bit of a hill.

Leon played Okie from Muskogee in the concert that was in Muskogee. I've also heard Merle Haggard do part of that song in Seattle - he stopped part way through, and said, "Oh, you all don't want to hear *that*." He plays anti-war songs too, now. I hated that song when it came out - now it seems pretty funny.

Posted by: mostlylurking | November 16, 2007 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Cassandra, I'm so sorry for your loss. Holidays are a tough time to get through. If it helps to tell us about your son, please do. From what you've told us already, he seems like a fine young man.

Posted by: mostlylurking | November 16, 2007 9:38 PM | Report abuse

I love the big fish pictures and really want one. The antlers on the wall were cool, but maybe just a few too many for my taste.

In all the hiking I have done, I have never came across any deer antlers....never.

Hunting season starts here Monday at dawn. It will sound like the 4th of July. A good time to stay out of the woods. There is no hunting in my community here, but a hunting property is located about a half a mile away. One year I had a buck run into my yard and collapse. The hunter followed the blood trail to my yard. I let him take his prize. I like venison and look forward to getting some from my hunting friends.

Oh, I forgot to say that our county closes the schools for the first week of hunting season. That always struck me as odd.

Off to work, everyone have a good weekend.

Posted by: greenwithenvy | November 16, 2007 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Dear Cassandra, tell us some stories if you like. We will listen carefully, around the campfire. Christmastide and all the winter holidays are about light. But the light shines in a darkness. Some of us know this darkness too well, too often, and too deeply. Becoming a parent makes us so vulnerable to the greatest grief: outliving a beloved and singular child. God keep you, dear one.

Off to watch Numbers, that best of contrived detective shows, and finish a green swirling scarf, knitted first at a certain ballgame in RFK with some random boodler-types last summer. The color is Mo-Dark-Luscious Green....and where is that fun and frolic of a gal?

Posted by: College Parkian | November 16, 2007 9:56 PM | Report abuse

And reading Mudge's secret code post and laughing heartily at the tassels = rotary aircraft moving parts. Too funny. You oughta have a permit this level of humor.

Posted by: College Parkian | November 16, 2007 9:59 PM | Report abuse

Cassandra-CP said it much better than I. Thinking of you.

Ah, Lawton OK. Where Mr. F and I met. Alas I only lived in OK for a year, but it was a good one.

GWE-our deer season is winding down. School was closed the first Monday of the season and today, the last Friday. Thus hunting season is always bracketed by 3 day weekends. Might as well close school, most of the teachers would call in sick and the kids would skip anyway.

Posted by: frostbitten | November 16, 2007 10:05 PM | Report abuse

SCC that all caps gwe, looks so totally wrong and sock puppet like.

Posted by: frostbitten | November 16, 2007 10:07 PM | Report abuse

Wow, this brought out the wingnuts:

Posted by: bill everything | November 16, 2007 10:21 PM | Report abuse

And counter-rotating tassels will mean a CH-47 Chinook or Belle Star.

And can we put a Miller Lite tiffany lamp over the pool table in the bunker?

Posted by: yellojkt | November 16, 2007 10:30 PM | Report abuse

From the NORFED FAQ:

Q. Can I use Liberty Dollars to pay my income tax?

A. This is a trick question. Income tax is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and doesn't have to be paid.

Posted by: Pop Socket | November 16, 2007 10:35 PM | Report abuse

See, physicists shoulda take lessons from Mudge on how to name concepts.

None of this k,f,c business.

Lighting a room properly= Harmonize lamps until it hertz.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 16, 2007 10:39 PM | Report abuse

I miss Loompanics.

Posted by: bill everything | November 16, 2007 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Reposting from the last (but also, wrong) Boodle. And this is why one should not Boodle when jet-lagged. I posted this a scant 10 minutes ago, just missed that there was a kit and Boodle more recent. (!)

No time to backboodle yet, just to say, landed home about 2 hours ago; lovely to see #1 and #2 and the boyfriend at the airport. I love Ireland. I want to live there. Even though I didn't locate Maggie O'D. Much much more later. I've missed all these imaginary friends.

Since I feel it is now about 3:00 am, I'm to bed.

Posted by: Yoki | November 16, 2007 10:46 PM

Posted by: Yoki | November 16, 2007 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Yoki... glad to know you're home safe and sound. Go to bed and we'll talk in the morning!

Posted by: TBG | November 16, 2007 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Welcome back, Yoki. Hope you had a good flight aboard your lovely organza.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 11:04 PM | Report abuse

That didn't seem to work out very well.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 16, 2007 11:05 PM | Report abuse

'Mudge, don't forget, "silent but deadly":
Stealth B-2 bomber

Posted by: bill everything | November 16, 2007 11:13 PM | Report abuse

bill everything,
That Trail piece on the Liberty Dollar raid is a marvel. The comments are even better!

Posted by: DaveoftheCoonties | November 16, 2007 11:23 PM | Report abuse

Hi, Yoki! I'm still way behind and I only went to the East Coast.

This is on the front page - about the Liberty Dollar raid:

Posted by: mostlylurking | November 16, 2007 11:31 PM | Report abuse

It's interesting that people notice that it's not normal practice to prosecute people for minting private coins, and assume this is politically related.

More likely, it's because they're mislabelling the composition of coins and selling brass as gold, and zinc as silver.

That would be massive mail fraud right there if people are buying them out of catalogs.

"Uttering", which was a word I hadn't actually known about until a few months ago (such a straight and narrow path I walk, you see), means knowingly passing counterfeit money, and that is also a serious charge. It doesn't mean they're necessarily milling counterfeit money.

The FBI is apparently not commenting because it is part of an ongoing investigation to determine the parties involved. The coin company may or may not be cleared eventually.

Anybody who has a liberty dollar probably should get it tested to see whether it is in fact heavy enough to be the volume of gold or silver as claimed.

Doing a simple volume vs weight measurement should be a fairly reliable guide to see whether it is in fact the correct composition as claimed; not very many materials are as heavy as gold. Anybody who paid attention in HS chemistry could do it.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 16, 2007 11:39 PM | Report abuse

Someone in the previous Boodle compared working for corporations to indentured servitude. From the local paper today:
"It's not quite indentured servitude, because you can quit, but when you look at the mortgages and car payments, especially in Seattle, you're not exactly free," said the surveilled former employee.

Posted by: mostlylurking | November 16, 2007 11:39 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe that Von NotHaus is someone's real name.

Posted by: yellojkt | November 16, 2007 11:40 PM | Report abuse

Evenin', y'all. The parade has parode, the show was shown, the food was et. The leftover food is stored and dishes are done, if not put away. Very soon it will be bedtime. A very nice Centennial has been had by all. I'm going to try and force the Boy down to the river for the nighttime boat parade tomorrow, before his (gulp!) Fall Dance.

Cassandra, many hugs about your son. Welcome back, Yoki.

rainforest, the western part of Oklahoma is flat. The east has hills and trees, and the southeast and southwest have very old mountains. Almost hills now. Mostlylurking, the Five Civilized Tribes acknowledge the name and recognize the irony in it - these tribes were living in real houses, eating off china, and engaging in representative government while the white settlers were living in dugouts, eating turnips and hoping to someday have indoor plumbing. The first college in Oklahoma was a Cherokee women's college.

Mudge, feel free to consult me about the whole "pink taffeta and tassels" issue.

Made-in-Oklahoma menu: chips, crackers. Maria Rae's #2 hot salsa, Enid; Shooting Star chipotle salsa, Bartlesville; garlic yogurt cheese, Wagon Creek Creamery, Helena; Scott Farms Herb Dip and Cheesy Enchilada Soup (made as dip), Altus; Krebs white cheese; Watonga cheese -- tomato & basil cheddar, white garlic cheddar, white & yellow cheddar; pinto beans with ham hock (pre-statehood family recipe); Shawnee Mills cornbread; brisket; rolls; sauce from my grandfather's barbecue sauce recipe, made annually by my cousin; Okarche cinnamon rolls; Watonga cheese fudge; Woody candy company pralines; Bedre chocolates. Two Tidal School Winery reds; one Grape Ranch red and one white; Choc (from Choctaw) beer - original 1919, wheat, and Choctoberfest.

Posted by: Ivansmom | November 16, 2007 11:58 PM | Report abuse

That list did me in. A happy Centennial to all, and to all a good night. Vaya con queso, cheese fudge, and fondue.

Posted by: Ivansmom | November 17, 2007 12:01 AM | Report abuse

"Von NotHaus, who said he years ago changed his name to a Germanic version of his given name, Nothhouse..."

Posted by: TBG | November 17, 2007 12:07 AM | Report abuse

I'm sorry I missed all the airplane talk (and I'll bet Scottynuke does too, he has some cred there, IIRC), wouldn't call it my wheelhouse, but I have more than a passing fancy for aircraft.

As far as the swing-wing military aircraft goes, I only Boodle-scanned, but I didn't see anyone mention the B-1 or the Tornado.

CP, if you've ever seen any counter-rotating tasselprops operating wide open, you'd likely be as impressed as Mudge clearly was/is.

Speaking of code, I think the word "fusilage" has some potential.

"Monocoque," too, come to think of it.

Got to watch a SR-71 (no, not an A-12 - and you know who I'm talkin' to here) take off from Andrews once, one of the darnedest things I ever saw. I was only able to watch from outside the base, but it was worth it to watch the thing lift off, point it's nose at the sky, light the afterburners and disappear d@mn near straight up. Oh, and did I mention the NOISE?

Way cool, not Rolls-Royce/Merlin at WOT cool, but a different kind of cool.

And if the little scale models need to be built for the bunker, let me know. I used to be pretty good at that stuff, think I still even have a decent airbrush and some sharp Exacto blades. Need some new plastic putty though, I think mine went solid at some point during the first Reagan administration.


Posted by: bc | November 17, 2007 12:15 AM | Report abuse

please, bc, ixnay on the ationaviay talk, please; the omenway don't ikeitlay.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 17, 2007 1:12 AM | Report abuse

Planes are OK, it's that damn alphabet-number soup that bugs us.

Maybe you should provide links to pictures so we know what the heck is being talked about.

Or, just hold a BPH at the air-space museum cafe and talk away to your delight about big flat things that go vroom really loud in the air.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 17, 2007 2:54 AM | Report abuse

Mudge is saying something secret to bc. I'm guessing it has something to do with the bunker. I think the bunker needs an aromatic diffuser lamp. A stress relief blend of lavender oil should relax everyone.

Hi Yoki. Glad to hear that all the boodlers who went on vacation got home safely.

On political campaigns. When a campaign period runs long so is the mudslinging period. I think this can cause the voters to not vote. A person working 8 hrs or more a day doesn't have that much time to check on what is true and what is not. If the candidates are as bad as what each other say he/she is then both are as bad. If that's the case, why vote?

Re : Enola Gay. SE Asians (I'm sure the sentiment was the same in China) were not sorry that Enola Gay drop "Little Boy". Sure, the death and sufferings from that action was horrendous but we equated that with the killings and cruelties we suffered under the Japanese occupation.

Posted by: rainforest | November 17, 2007 3:08 AM | Report abuse

Hey wait a second. Mudge said Thunderthud was the nickname an aircraft? I saw a program the other day about aircraft, which mentioned the Thunderthud. Its just not a name you forget.

I'm up early(mt time) because mr dr has a severe case of gout. Fall is always tough for him. First a couple of toes, then his other ankle. It is what happens when he doesn't listen to his lovely wife and go to the doctor. He sleeps better if I'm not tossing and turning trying to get back to sleep.

I'll catch up with a nap later, but the coffee is on in the bunker. It seemed the least I could do.

Posted by: dr | November 17, 2007 5:38 AM | Report abuse

Mention aircraft? Me? Nope. Never happened. Unh-uh. I didn't do it. Nosirree. Wouldn't be prudent. Won't ever talk about the a-word. Strictly a boat guy. Man was never meant to fly.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 17, 2007 6:31 AM | Report abuse

Disney dollars.

Posted by: Sock Puppet | November 17, 2007 6:34 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the correction Mudge. I knew W conducted a pursuit oxcart that wasn't used in SE Asia because soon there wasn't anything to pursue, just did'nt remembered the model of pursuit oxcart correctly. The Thunderclap GT vs the Olds Delta 88 SE.

Posted by: shrieking denizen | November 17, 2007 6:52 AM | Report abuse

*happy-weekend-to-all-as-I-backBoodle Grover waves* :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | November 17, 2007 7:07 AM | Report abuse

Yes, I DID miss the conversation on those-technological-marvels-that-shall-remain-nameless... *L*

yellojkt, bc and 'Mudge might know why I have a particularly good understanding of the steel-to-concrete interaction characteristics of the "marvel" that yello's dad used to operate.

And I was ALWAYS happy to see the Warthog when I was in the Gulf.

And it's fun to see the "thinking" of the "let's make an alternate monetary system/taxes are illegal" crew...


Posted by: Scottynuke | November 17, 2007 7:27 AM | Report abuse

G'morning, all.

How was the first week of married life, Snuke? And where are you taking the Mrs for her honeymoon?

Oh, I like the thought of a lavender diffuser lamp, rainforest! Good call! That should make Mudge so mellow, he'll be okay with the Christmas decorating in the bunker. We really should do something special for him in the shop stewart's office. Hmmm...will have to think about that.

I noticed in that story about Liberty dollars a reference to the local federal law office and checked the Charlotte paper's website for news, to no avail. I'll watch and post links, if anything comes up.

The big news around here this week has been the arrest of a local couple who allegedly ran a high-dollar prostitution service from their home, not far from where Mr. T and I live. The feds investigated and filed charges because the service was not just interstate but international in its reach. The service provider who is their witness said she made $160,000 one year, after the couple's cut. Wow.

Posted by: Slyness | November 17, 2007 7:38 AM | Report abuse

It's been smiles all around, Slyness, thank you for asking!!! :-))))))))))

We've got plenty of ideas for the "honeymoon," but it'll wait until we're in a position for both of us to take enough vacation for it to be worthwhile. Hopefully early next year.

*humming a certain Carly Simon tune* :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | November 17, 2007 7:42 AM | Report abuse

Just checking in. I'm off today to take my son and four of his friends to see Beowulf in Imax 3D. The closest theater showing this format is in King of Prussia. You have to support your kids when they show an interest in literature.

Posted by: yellojkt | November 17, 2007 7:59 AM | Report abuse

Good luck, yello. If I'd known that Angelina Jolie was gonna be in Beowulf nekkid, I'd have paid a little more attention in freshman English, slicked back my hair and worn a necktie to class. (Hey, this was 1964. Gimme a break.)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 17, 2007 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, friends. Thanks, mostly, dear CP, frostbitten and Ivansmom for the kind and comforting words. They do help along with much prayer, and that name that is above every name, Sweet Jesus.

Ivansmom, that menu is mouth-watering even at this hour of the morning!

I am off this morning to a Minority Health Summit at the local community college. I went last year and it was nice.

Welcome back, Yoki. I hope you enjoyed your trip.

Slyness, I saw that news item on television. These folks were operating this business, for lack of a better word, out of their home. That's a lot of money for sin, isn't it? The Devil pays well, but I don't think one can stand that bonus at the end of life.

Mudge, I hope you didn't get offended at my comment about Mrs. Clinton. Women get a lot of grief in this world just going along, and called all kinds of names for just breathing.

And good morning Scotty, and all.*waving* I hope your honeymoon is the best, Scotty, for you and your bride. The backdrop for your wedding was fantastic!

Time to hit the shower. Enjoy your weekend. Give God some of your time, and of course, your family.

I know it is difficult for young people in this world. I have a daughter and she's still trying to find her place in the world. Young people face a lot of challenges and so much to draw their attention from what they need to do. Having said that, why are those babies of Brittany's being placed in danger every day? If that was someone not as famous as she is, they would be under the jailhouse, not just in it. I don't understand that. We cannot feed people's fantasies with the lives of children. Where are the people that protect children in that state? Must those babies die to feed the media? Has everybody lost their mind?

God loves us so much more than we can imagine through Him that died for all, Jesus Christ.

Posted by: Cassandra S | November 17, 2007 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Seamus Heaney's translation of Beowulf is very right-on, luscious stuff. CPDots adored the story, reading every version we could lay our hands on. I think we have about seven versions. CPBoy may find the new sexed-up version of Grendle's Mommy Fearest a reason to dabble more. My rule of read-book-see-movie still carries force.

We have the good fortune of knowing a woman who studied Beowulf at Yale -- including some time with genius-candidate Harold Bloom. This talented friend who is auntie-like to my children would recite the opening lines of Beowulf in chilling and delicious Old English. Oh! the hidden lyric nuggets called kennings within the epic, spun-out stanza-by-stanza:

wide whale-path (sea)
salt-sea way (route by sea)
sleep of the sword (death in battle)
billow-maidens (mer maids)
ring giver (chieftain who shares spoils of war)

For children, Ian Serraillier's version is quite good, as is Robert Nye's retelling.

I am, dismayed, however, at the Jolie-ification of the monster's mother. The elliptical descriptions of the bad, avenging mother only heighten the fear. We should not be fully sure of her "person" or physical attributes. Here is a bit of word-annodating on Grendel's mother: 'aglæc-wif' likely denotes "wretch" or "monster-woman." Klaeber's glossary also defines "aglæca/æglæca."

Posted by: College Parkian | November 17, 2007 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Whoops -- demon, monster,....ya know, things that go bump in the night, although Grendle's mommy is a swamp creature.

John Gardner's _Grendle_ takes the point of view of being Grendle, which is a great AND SHORT companion read.

DR -- Sorry about gout-man's troubles. Ouch! Let this pass quickly, in the meantime, read Beowulf aloud? Knit along to a tape?

Posted by: College Parkian | November 17, 2007 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Drat on my spelling problems. More coffee, then bike ride. Brain will jump into gear in response.

Take care all, as leaves are slippery when wet.

Posted by: College Parkian | November 17, 2007 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Sheesh, I was hoping we'd start swapping video links to A-10s doing CAS.

However, I think we should leave the lavender diffuser lamp behind and talk dogsled racing. I thought I knew a thing or two about the sport, until I went to the local race committee's planning meeting in our fair city Thursday night. We are going to be the finish line for the amateur classes (38 miles from the start) and a way station for the pros who will race on another 92 miles. With the teams they have registered already we'll have more dogs than people in town on Jan. 12th. The old timers, and I didn't even know we had any old time mushers around, are of two minds about this as many feel mushers aren't waiting long enough to see what kind of shape their dogs will be in by January. But, with races filling to capacity if they don't enter early they won't have anywhere to race. Some big dreamers feel the only thing keeping us from having a NASCAR length season is global warming.

Here's the race web site-

Posted by: frostbitten | November 17, 2007 9:31 AM | Report abuse

I see while I was attending to a phone call from Mr. F, who is back from Afghanistan a day late but now enroute from Charlotte to Tampa, the conversation turned to Beowulf. A sad, gaping hole in my education I will have to fill with CP's suggestions. Read an excerpt in a high school textbook, but don't think the teacher knew much about it and rushed us on.

Back to the aircraft. Ahem, boodlers-some of you will be able to look at these letters and know immediately what is being done-
K1 P2

Too many letters, my patootie.

Posted by: frostbitten | November 17, 2007 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, all.

Mudge, I think "Thunderthud" would be an excellent ring name should you ever take up pro wrestling [Love to see you in one of those way cool Mexican wrestling masks. Heck, you could wear it while Boodling, like StrongBad. Now that I think about it, maybe you *already* wear a 'Curmudgeon' mask while Boodling...].

"Beowulf" is all the rage this weekend, my oldest read BW for school a few years ago, and this year her teacher had her class read Gardener's 'Grendel.' For a class project, she and her friends took on a project to create a video adaptation of one of the scenes, to give them an appreciation for how difficult it can be to translate literature to the screen.

I haven't seen either adaptation yet, but I'm sure I'll love both. I'm a Gaiman fan (so I'm looking forward to the bigscreen version), and my daughter is an excellent scupltor and artist, and well-suited to taking ideas and manifesting them in media.

She's going to see "Beowulf" today as well, I'll wait for her review...

CP, I've been meaning to read Heaney's translation, but I'm about a half-dozen books behind and falling fast...


Posted by: bc | November 17, 2007 9:46 AM | Report abuse

SCC: "For a class project, she and her friends created a video adaptation of one of the scenes, to give them an appreciation for how difficult it can be to translate literature to the screen."

Bleah, even *that* sentence stinks.
But you see what I mean.

Once again, I fall afoul of the rule that I shouldn't interact with people while Boodling.


Posted by: bc | November 17, 2007 9:54 AM | Report abuse

(pardon the intrusion)

Paging Yoki, Frosti, DR, DMD, Mostlylurking, Dave of the Counties, Raysmom, Maggie ODay, Mudgekins! (in my frenzy, frothing state, please forgive the other garden-boodlers I neglect)

I SCORED SEVEN, yes 7, bog sage plants for $2/heft plant.

Salvia uliginosa

Blue as in the perfect blue. However, I have planned on green beans from the farmer's market for TG Day. Frozen will have to do.

But gardening joy trumps cooking ought-to, at least for the day.

Posted by: College TouchDOWNIAN | November 17, 2007 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Good morning!

Cassandra, thank you for sharing your son with us.

I have a bad cold, but will brave the mighty outdoors and the PA turnpike to make it to a gem show today. A little restocking, picking up new vendors, searching for some specific stones for a bridal party's jewelry (daughter of a friend). The b2b's secret shower is tomorrow, so tonight . . . I'll be baking cookies (sigh).

I may try to curtail bridal party jewelry in the future. My 2 experiences so far have been Bridezillas: (1) when all profits were going to the Komen for a Cure (breast cancer), she asked for a discount knowing KfaC would get less and (2) last night, listening to the b2b rail on how she shouldn't have to pay the priest $200. He should be honored to ask to officiate at the cathedral! He should pay *her!* (Yes, this is the $250/pillow b2b). Her mother and I looked at each other and her teenaged sister said, "You know, this may be the most important day in your life, but nobody else cares that much. Deal with it." :-)

Have a good day, everyone.

Posted by: dbG | November 17, 2007 10:24 AM | Report abuse

And welcome back, Yoki! We've missed you.

Posted by: dbG | November 17, 2007 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Little sisters are great, dbG. They'll tell it like it is--after going upstairs to fetch something for the older sibling, that is. (I am a little sister, I have one and I have mothered one.)

My DBG just laughed at your bridezilla stories. Good luck today and have fun tomorrow at the shower. When is the wedding?

Posted by: TBG | November 17, 2007 10:34 AM | Report abuse

dbg, little sisters are great. I have one, and she is so outspoken, but I love it. She goes right to the meat of everything. Your bridal stories are so funny.

Missed the summit, have to go to church for a meeting. I still may be able to squeeze it in.

Posted by: Cassandra S | November 17, 2007 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Thanks, TBG. I think the bride's older sister, who wasn't a Bridezilla, is pounding on her too.

Somehow I doubt the little sister will be a Bridezilla should she go the marriage route. Sometimes I think it's like getting older--impending marriage can intensify all your characteristics, bad and good.

The wedding is a few days after New Year's, early on a Friday evening.

Posted by: dbG | November 17, 2007 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Good morning! It looks like we're off to --are you ready? Beowulf. Then to read the Heaney translation en famille. A collective Boodle mindset?

Posted by: Ivansmom | November 17, 2007 10:52 AM | Report abuse

I spend much time in my truck and installed a nice MP3 player in it recently. I'll brag on it briefly to say it has a slot on the front I just plug in one of several 4GB flash "thumb drives". Handy.
But sometimes NPR (the only radio I listen to much when I'm not listening to my newly-compiled music collection) and my music itself are not the exact thing I'm looking for. So, having been a longtime booster of Project Gutenberg, I was finally motivated to search their site for free & legal audiobooks. And stumbled onto a very long and provocative list, including, yes, Beowulf, which I found in the "A" section under "anonymous."
Here's the link:

In addition, they have some computer-voice renditions of audiobooks. Haven't even looked at this list yet. This is actually how I was searching for all this, because I wanted to convert some of my ebooks into audible files, make some MP3s and load them up. As it turns out, the lexicon provided gratis by Microsoft is woefully unprepared to do this task in their text-to-speech synthesizer provided in the "Accessibility" options pack, and for a while my on-and-off attempts, to find a free lexicon I could plug into the Microsoft utility, were fruitless. I have searched for "open source" and "text-to-speech" and "lexicon wiki" to no real success. Just some promises. And actual applications I could purchase. As usual, however, the rules of my game state I should get these wonderful aps for free!
So ProjectGutenberg already has the actual books for me to listen to. I'm going to go back there and see what's available.

I still think someone should host a universal pronunciation guide wiki. Unfortunately I'm no linguistic speech synthesis expert.

Posted by: Jumper | November 17, 2007 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Wow, Jumper... THANKS for the link! I think I'll start with the L. Frank Baum books.

Posted by: TBG | November 17, 2007 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of L. Frank Baum, my daughter pointed out to me recently that the name of the character Elphaba in the musical (and book) Wicked is based on Baum's name.

Get it? Elphaba (prounounced EL´-fuh-buh)... L. Frank Baum.

Posted by: TBG | November 17, 2007 12:27 PM | Report abuse

I have to right-click the download menu to save the MP3s, or they just start playing. But they are saveable.

Posted by: Jumper | November 17, 2007 1:01 PM | Report abuse

I figured some Boodlers would be going to Beowolf this weekend. I saw one review in the local paper that wasn't great - says it doesn't stick to the original story (what ovie adaptation does?), and that it was sort of emotionless. But enjoy! (If I only went to movies that critics like, I wouldn't go to any).

CP, the salvia looks good. Nice blue.

Posted by: mostlylurking | November 17, 2007 1:05 PM | Report abuse

SCC - movie (need more coffee!)

Posted by: mostlylurking | November 17, 2007 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Interesting article about Vonnegut, Styron, Mailer:
I spent some time in a Hudson News store in the Dallas airport on my way back home, and they had a good selection of Vonnegut's books - 5 or 6 at least. I read Thank You, Dr Kevorkian while I was there (it's less than 100 pages, I think). Could probably have read another, because it was a 2 hour layover that turned into 3.

Posted by: mostlylurking | November 17, 2007 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Good afernoon all, CP the salvia are beautiful.

Been raking all morning and put up the green roping for christmas, just about everything hurts.

Yoki glad you back and Maggie a very belated welcome back.

Glad everyone appreciates little sisters, now can you pass on to my older sister how wonderful younger sisters are :-).

Off to little ones hockey game.

Posted by: dmd | November 17, 2007 2:07 PM | Report abuse

*belated but certainly heartfelt welcome-back-Yoki Grover waves*


Posted by: Scottynuke | November 17, 2007 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Greetings, all.

I am still suffering through yet another Michigan loss to Ohio State. I remember being at such a game in the Big House many decades ago, when all the Ohio State fans were wearing "MUCK FICHIGAN" shirts. I tried to reverse it, but there were too many vowels in Ohio. *sigh*

On my way in a moment to get astonishingly and irrevocably glitzed up for a black tie party tonight down near the White House this evening. My hair is now below shoulder length, is mostly white and will be put up into what the stylist calls a "romantic" updo. The nails come first, however, having learned that lesson the hard way ages ago. And, yes, and THANKFULLY, the long gown still fits (whew!). I got it decades ago when Garfinkles went out of business for an embarrassingly low price. It's really, really gorgeous. Nice to be able to wear it again. Long dangly earrings and a sweet smile will go with it. The hostess is turning 50 in a very glamourous way. Awfully glad to help her out by going uber-glam myself.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Posted by: firsttimeblogger | November 17, 2007 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Have fun, ftb... remember: You look mahvelous!

Posted by: TBG | November 17, 2007 3:45 PM | Report abuse

You're going to look fabulous, ftb! Don't stop with *near* the White House - you just go right on in. Er, maybe not - I suppose we'd be seeing you in the news, then. Have a great time.

Posted by: mostlylurking | November 17, 2007 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Have a great time, firsttimeblogger. That sounds like fun. I love to dress up and seldom have the chance to do so - and I always wind up wearing pretty much the same thing (I might vary a shawl or something).

I recommend Beowulf, the movie. It is from the Gaiman comic book adaptation, not the "classic" poem, but it is still just a great story. The filmmaking has real actors who are then digitally altered (kurosawaguy can explain this, which I can't), so you recognize Anthony Hopkins, Robin Wright Penn, Angelina Jolie and John Malovich without their getting in the way of the story. The special effects were very good, and the 3D is cool (the glasses are much better this time around, and no headache). I think I was most pleased by the successful effort to tell a story. That is, this was from a comic book version but the movie is not a comic book. The characters change and grow. The Boy and I found some parts scary, and there was occasional gory unpleasantness where I closed my eyes, but I'm a little visually squeamish (I save dispassion for the crime scene pictures I have to view). By all means go. The Boy, who now wants to read the poem was prepared for the movie, but I don't know how many 11-year-olds would enjoy it. Slightly older kids would probably like it a lot. There are fights, monsters, dragons, and a barely clad Angelina Jolie. Oh yes, and the Beowulf actor fights the monster naked, with "casual" obstacles blocking his non-PG bits. Nice scenery for everyone.

Posted by: Ivansmom | November 17, 2007 3:55 PM | Report abuse

That sounds like lots of fun, Frosti, have a great time!

My sister-in-law has a buddy who turned 50 this year and celebrated by renting a villa in Tuscany (complete with chef) for two weeks and inviting all her friends to visit. Since I'm past 50, I'll have to wait till 60 to do something kewl like that.

Posted by: Slyness | November 17, 2007 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Here is my Married to the Sea comic favorite this week...

Posted by: TBG | November 17, 2007 5:58 PM | Report abuse

OHIO can be made into obscene acrostics in ASL quite easily, if that helps you feel better, Firsttimeblogger. Besides, didn't OSU win?

Frostbitten, that race sounds interesting; I've never seen dogsledding before.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 17, 2007 7:45 PM | Report abuse

bc, I'm sorry, but I can't use "Thunderthud" for my professional wrestling name; I already have my porn name embroidered on the back of my pro wrestling robe: Ming Wyoming.

Just watched Joel's pal Jim Vanderhei (ex-WaPo) on "Inside Washington" a few minutes ago. Cool guy; seems to know his stuff.

I always loved John Gardner's "Grendel" much better than Beowulf, even the Seamus Heaney translation. I never considered the original to be all that great. It seems to be me it gets all its freshman English cachet because of its age and length, and as an example of an Icelandic saga, yadda yadda yadda. But that STILL doesn't necessarily "interesting," just "important." Stephen Hunter's review mentions (quite rightly, in my view) a lot of the problems with Beowulf as a piece of literature. I suffered through it in college, and then a year or two later read Grendel when it first came out because it was getting rave reviews, and almost shouted out loud at some of Grendel (Gardner's) observations about what a pompous stuffed shirt Beowulf was. And I simply do not understand casting Angelina Jolie as Grendel's mother, who is/was supposed to be this horrible tyrannosaurus-type evil giant monster. I mean, it's like casting Matt Damon to play King Kong while wearing a jock strap instead of a monkey suit.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 17, 2007 7:50 PM | Report abuse

I remember last year, a dogsled race to be run around February 3-5 was cancelled because it was bitterly cold. Might have been the White Oak Classic? I remember even Wilbrodog didn't want to stay out too long when it went below -25F... even though he was happy to walk a mile or three at -15F.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 17, 2007 8:19 PM | Report abuse

BTW, meant to mention I was watching a rerun of Letterman the other night, and he had on this new singer, Nicole Atkins, singing "The Way It Is." Boy, this chick is really good. Here's the YouTube link to her performance on Letterman, if anybody's interested:

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 17, 2007 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Wilbrod-the White Oak Classic was first postponed, then cancelled because we didn't have enough snow. I think you are thinking of the John Beargrease which runs up the North Shore from Duluth-they finally had snow, and then it was too cold and icy to be safe for the dogs.

Organizers at the Beargrease and White Oak are working on having a "Triple Crown" of sled dog racing. Don't you love small town boosterism? I have no idea what race will form the third jewel in the crown.

Posted by: frostbitten | November 17, 2007 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Mudge, I agree on the liberties taken with the whole Jolie= monster's mom concept right there.

I liked Beowulf just fine, as it's oral literature. You can't compare it to Homer or to Chaucer. But it's the best we got of the poetry and culture of that time and place. And it is not an icelandic saga, it's Anglo-Saxon.

You probably should check out the Kalevala, compiled in 1835 by a poet based on oral literature. It's the national poem of Finland.

This would befuddle ANY freshman English student.

Or, just enjoy "Silverlock" by John Myers Myers which celebrates the whole body of literature and has some light writing about Beowulf, and of course, drinking songs. I've recommended it before.

A rowing song from Silverlock:

And this Alamo song, sung in the style of a nordic bard.

The second lacks a meter analysis but it seems to be a little more mixed than the first one (Trochaic hexameter).

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 17, 2007 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Frostbitten, that's funny. I assume both races are mid-distance (100 miles or less)?

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 17, 2007 9:09 PM | Report abuse

Wilbrod-The White Oak is 130 miles this year, with recreational racers going just 38 miles. This is only the 3rd running of the White Oak and they make it a bit longer each year. I think they want to end up around 200 miles. The Beargrease is 400 miles long with a "mid distance" option. I'm not sure how much shorter that is than the full.

Posted by: frostbitten | November 17, 2007 9:38 PM | Report abuse

Yoki! Welcome home.

CP, the salvia are wonderful. My favourite for a long time, but till now they would not grow in my very shady yard. with the loss of that big tree, this may have changed. I'm looking forward to planting season already.

I'll see the new Beowulf, but not till its out on dvd. Is anyone else as creeped out as I am by the digitzed people? If you haven't seen Beowulf and Grendel from a couple yars ago, I recommend it. Not that that means anything, but I like movies that draw me in as this one did.

Kerric is here working on the newly wired sat. Internet service, and he is setting up a wireless network in the house. I could even see the Letterman link!! Whole words were audible. I am so excited.

He was looking over my shoulder and caught 'K1 P2'

He says to me'who's playing chess?'

Posted by: dr | November 17, 2007 9:42 PM | Report abuse

Hope Joel kits on this:

Especially the goofy "nuanced" response from the now, finally, maybe, possibly, to an extent, but with reservations, White House.

Posted by: bill everything | November 17, 2007 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Um...not if I live another 300 years, Wilbrod, am I about to read the national poem of Finland. Or a Nordic version of Davy Crockett in Jurassic Pentathalon. Life's too short (even mine).

Yes, I can too compare Beowulf to Chaucer and Homer. Didn't care much for them either. See? Easy.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 17, 2007 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Even the Miller's Tale, Curmudgeon?

I hate to be delicate, but...are you epikometrophobic?

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 17, 2007 9:57 PM | Report abuse

Yes. It's part of my charm.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 17, 2007 10:10 PM | Report abuse

Ah. You were once tied up like Odysseus before the mast, and then tortured with a lot of bad epic poetry with the relentless professionalism of Meistersingers?

I thought such activities were outlawed by the Geneva conventions.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 17, 2007 10:18 PM | Report abuse

dr-not chess, the next step is YO

CP-backboodled to your salvia score. What a great purchase. One review I read spoke of the scent being not altogether pleasant. Personally, I find all blue salvia just a tad unpleasant to sniff, but I love it just the same. Blue is worth a little stink.

Posted by: frostbitten | November 17, 2007 10:27 PM | Report abuse

What a great kit. I only now got a chance to read it carefully.

I have no Clinton fatigue. The R's are battling to be the most saber-rattling and water boarding, feh; they have to lose for the good of our country.

Hillary, tho' she wont solve everyhing, has the experience to get our foreign policy back where it needs to be. Obama, I like him but, not so sure.

Posted by: bill everything | November 17, 2007 10:55 PM | Report abuse

Ha ha - I'm working on a pattern stitch with a K2 tog, YO, K1, YO, Slip 1, K1, PSSO. Trips me up now and again. It's called Cat's Eye Rib - making a scarf from luscious purple alpaca yarn for my sister, the cat woman. For Christmas...

I've mentioned before my friend who went to Alaska for the Iditarod several times. He loved dog sledding. He said the noise before the race starts - all the teams barking, eager to go - was amazing. And the the power of a dog team - he saw them move trucks they were tied to. I had envisioned that the driver controlled them sort of like a team of horses, with reins. But no - those dogs go, find the trail, and are directed by voice (I believe). That's why the lead dog is so important, I suppose.

Posted by: mostlylurking | November 17, 2007 11:06 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the reminder of your Pro Wrestler name, Mudge (though I think you avoided the whole masked-while-Boodling question).

I haven't seen "Beowulf" yet, but both my brother and oldest daughter thought it was fair, but not great.

I'll still see it, possibly in 3D, IMAX, or at the Uptown on Conn. Ave...

And "The Golden Compass" will be opening soon enough, and will likely be OK for my 7-year old, nothwithstanding angry Armored Bears.


Posted by: bc | November 17, 2007 11:23 PM | Report abuse

mostly-I imagined the dogs trained to reins as you did. I got totally lost at the meeting as they talked about sleds (meaning snowmobiles) to be used to hold sleds (meaning dog pulled sleds) back at some point. I have to say the meeting was being conducted with a minimum of words as it was.

Is there a formula for masked wrestler names?

Posted by: frostbitten | November 17, 2007 11:42 PM | Report abuse

mostly: //That's why the lead dog is so important, I suppose.//

Thinking on it, probably. If EmmaRose were a lead dog for a sled, they'd be stopping for refreshment at every drive-through in the state.

Posted by: dbG | November 17, 2007 11:51 PM | Report abuse

EmmaRose was named for my aunt, and I know she'd laugh as I do when we go to the vet's office and they call out "Emma dbG." Feels like she's still here.

Today I spent a lot of time in the wholesale section of the gem show. One vendor, looking at my business card after I bought pearls, called out, "Bye, Emma!" as I left.

Posted by: dbG | November 17, 2007 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Unlike horses which have a toothless gap behind their front teeth where the bit is placed, dogs have teeth all over, and they sure can use 'em on anything leather.

Loose reins flapping around where the rear dogs could grab them whenever they wanted a break would just be asking for trouble.

For dogs and safety, voice commands make the most sense because all the dogs will hear the command the lead dogs are about to do, and get ready to follow.

The lead dogs can detect navigation problems better than the musher can, and needs to be free to make the decisions to save the pack. The heavier dogs are the wheel dogs because they are strong enough help brake the sled if there's a problem.

Guide dogs are also trained to go straight, left, right, etc. on voice commands, and they take care of the obstacles and other pesky safety issues.

A different type of dog is required for precise and safe navigation of a blind owner in a city, though, than for going hundreds of miles in the woods with a group of other dogs.

One blind man trained siberians for his own guide dogs though, and he's addicted to 'em.

Another way sled dogs are not horses:

Dogs can pull strongly forward but cannot carry much weight on their backs at all-- the shoulder is the only safe place to carry weight, and even then you want the dog's shoulders to be as free, unburdened and mobile as possible. Also, their backs are flexible and will move a lot when running in harnesses.

Horses are the opposite; have problems with a harness that is directly on their fronts because their windpipes get caught easily. It was not until the rigid horsecollar was invented in the middle ages that horses could even begin to pull carts half as well as oxen without asphyxiating.

You must have reins and physical control on even the best horse team because horses are basically 1/2 ton rabbits.

They can spook from seeing something (which is why you see blinders on horses pulling carriages), and a 1000-2000 lb horse can overturn a wagon, runaway, or otherwise a lot of injury and possibly kill themselves out of panic. It could be as small as a flag flapping in the breeze that suddenly looked like a predator to them.

Well-trained dogs are a lot harder to panic. Heck, most cart dog breeds such as Newfoundlands, St Bernards, etc. are next to impossible to panic.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 18, 2007 12:42 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, friends. I'm up trying to figure out to feed paper into an adding machine. Can't find the instructions. I have them here somewhere, but where is the million dollar question.

A big day today. Our annual Missionary Anniversary program at four this afternoon. I'm looking forward to it. I missed the health summit. North Carolina has the highest number of cases for men with prostrate cancer and minorities make up that number. Our county has the largest number, the reason for the summit. Not good, not good.

My son was a big guy. When you see the huge transformers on the ground, the ones at apartment complexes, businesses, large buildings, that was my son's work. He worked for an electrical company in Raleigh, North Carolina, and he loved his job. He was married and had two sons (twins) and they were his joy. He loved his family and he spent all his time with those boys. He worked outside, and during the summer it would be so hot. He would loose weight during the summer because he could not eat and work outside, it made him sick, yet he never complained. We talked on the phone a lot, and he teased me all the time about one thing or another. I did get the chance to talk to him before he died, in fact the same day he died. I remember my mind said, tell him you love him before you hang up, but I didn't, and I will never get the chance again. He was a good kid growing up, and a lovely young man that looked forward to working and taking care of his family and enjoying his life. Even though he was in a wheel chair before he died, he did not complain. The last time I saw him he hugged me tight, and said, I'll bet you thought I couldn't do that. He was in a hospital bed then.

I have never met the person that ran into my son, and never really had the desire to do so. I do not feel any hatred or animosity against this woman. I don't know her name and she has never come forth and said anything. I hope she doesn't think I'm holding anything against her because I am not. Her life may be difficult, I know mine is, without my son.

Have a good day, folks. Give God some of your time, and your wonderful family. You are indeed blessed if you have all your children with you.

God loves us so much more than we can imagine through Him that died for all, Jesus Christ.

Posted by: Cassandra S | November 18, 2007 4:40 AM | Report abuse

Has anybody read "Doonesbury" this morning? Is that a compliment or a put down? Or sort of in the company of "arm candy"?

Posted by: Cassandra S | November 18, 2007 5:01 AM | Report abuse

Hi Cassandra, morning all!!! *mostly caffeinated Grover waves*

ftb, hope you had a simply boffo time at the party, and I'm sure you were the belle of the ball! :-)))

Cassandra, I think Mr. Trudeau is giving Joel a not-so-subtle compliment today. :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | November 18, 2007 6:53 AM | Report abuse

Joel's last Two Cents was brilliant. He's making politics less painful. I susapect a master toasting a master.

Posted by: dr | November 18, 2007 7:16 AM | Report abuse

Susapect? Susapect? Suspect.

Posted by: dr | November 18, 2007 7:18 AM | Report abuse

Ifa you'alla gather inna sitting aroom Ia willa reveal to you oo isa the killa.

Posted by: Boko999 | November 18, 2007 8:45 AM | Report abuse

FABULOUS party last night. And, yes, I did look mahvelous. I seldom get the chance to roll out the glam, and this was a wonderful event. The men were all decked out like the penguins they were required to be. The women were decked out, as well. What I thought was even more wonderful was that most of the women (including the hostess and the undersigned) were *not* stick thin. And we were, indeed, formidable.

Well, laundry's on and I need to make some breakfast. On with the day. Go Redskins and Go Lions. Yeah, right.

Posted by: firsttimeblogger | November 18, 2007 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Joel *does* have a talent for making politics interesting and funny.

Check out his book, "It Looks Like a President, Only Smaller."

Highly underrated IMO.

Completely off topic, I have the Porsche advertisement on the top of my browser here. I know all of those cars, and have seen several of them race. The blue and yellow #6 Porsche 917-30 is one of my all-time favorite racecars as wheeled by one of my personal heroes, the late, great Mark Donohue. Mark's book, "The Unfair Advantage" was a ground-breaking work on applying rigorous science to automotive engineering and development, as well as being highly amusing when it comes to the grey areas of rulebooks. I tend to read it every other year or so, and now I don't have to crack my hardcover first edition anymore, as Mark's son David had the book reprinted a few years ago.

Speaking of science, I saw this article on questionable forensic practices at the FBI in the Post today, and think it's going to have a big political impact over the next few weeks:

Oh, my.


Posted by: bc | November 18, 2007 9:32 AM | Report abuse

bc... you have Porsche ads, I have Toyota.

Cassandra... thanks for sharing a bit about your son. Talk about him here all you want. We'd like to meet him too.

When I met Error's mom, I felt her deep sadness over losing her son. They were friends, too, and spoke on the phone a lot and spent time together, really enjoying each other's company.

My son comes home tomorrow for Thanksgiving... I get him for a whole week. I will hold him tight and think of you and Error's mom when I do. I might not let go.

Posted by: TBG | November 18, 2007 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, everybody. I am creeping around like a meece this morning; Ivansdad had to see a play last night while I took the Boy to the Big Dance. He was a dancin' fool for three hours and says he got one kiss. Eeep. I sat and read "Captured by Aliens". I also think that Doonesbury was a sort of compliment, or at least an acknowledgment of Joel's mad skilz.

Thanks for telling us more about your son, Cassandra. All this talk of sons is why I'm sending Ivansdad to spend Thanksgiving with his folks this year. His dad recently had surgery for bladder cancer. They removed this, that, and a little of the other, and after some initial rocky recovery he is doing well, but Ivansdad hasn't yet had the chance to go there. It is a little early for a full family visit, but they'll have a good time.

I never thought of Beowulf as classic on literary merit, but it is a gripping and exciting story. I think this new film is a good vehicle for sharing that basic story with a large contemporary audience, and I applaud it for that. Having kids "study" any story or poem usually kills real enjoyment of it. This reminds people why the tale has lasted so long. And Mudge -- I know the Angelina Jolie thing isn't in the spirit or letter of the original, but trust me, if you see the film you'll understand.

Posted by: Ivansmom | November 18, 2007 10:16 AM | Report abuse

I have to concur with Ivansmom's excellent review of Beowulf. Why and how Grendel's mommy looks like AJ is cleverly handled in the movie in a way that calls in question the ur-narrative. At one level, a lot of the movie is about what makes a hero epic and how his stories are told. Very meta.

ml, Thanks for the KV link. A great analysis.

And Doonesbury is funny so many ways. I hope it wasn't directed at just Joel. In many ways we get Joel's better stuff since the dead trees think pieces have to be so on topic.

Posted by: yellojkt | November 18, 2007 10:33 AM | Report abuse

This is a really excellent op-ed on the "B" word and to a lesser extent on Hillary.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Again I mention Error Flynn. I felt him with me this morning while I read this fine article about one of my favorite shows when I was a kid... Mannix!

My friends and I used to love to jump off the Jefferson Memorial onto the soft grass, "Mannix style." (I guess you had to be there)

I remember one episode it was just so obvious that Mannix couldn't possibly survive and my dad told us "Hey! I read about this in the TV Guide... Mannix DOES die... this is the last episode of Mannix... from now on it's going to be called "Peggy!" [and be about the secretary].

Posted by: TBG | November 18, 2007 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Well, I've backBoodled. I turn my back for a moment, and S'nuke gets married! Most heartfelt congratulations and felicitations, Mr. Nuke. Much happiness to you and yours.

I put a few pictures from Ireland up at The first, in particular, is for you all.

Morning all.

Posted by: Yoki | November 18, 2007 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Rhodes scholarships have been announced. There should be fireworks and bonfires at St. Olaf College and a few red sweatshirts at the University of Georgia (two each, if I read the table correctly).

Posted by: Dave of the Coonties | November 18, 2007 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Here's a link to the Doonesbury strip:

Posted by: kbertocci | November 18, 2007 12:00 PM | Report abuse

My daughter saw Beowulf as soon as it came out--she's an avid Neil Gaiman fan. She said she found it entertaining but somewhat disappointing. She expected better dialog from Gaiman, based on her experiences with his books. Also she felt that the total-CG format was distracting and underutilized--for the amount they took advantage of the possibilities of that medium, they could have just used live action, with CG just for the characters that were going to transform or otherwise do things that actors can't. But then, we realized that the movie is, for many of the people involved in its production, nothing more than an elaborate pretext for a profitable videogame. That justifies the CG work because it would all have to be done for the game anyway. That kind of makes me sick, and reminds me of a Susan Sarandan quote that was in the paper today. She plays the wicked stepmother/witch in "Enchanted" and she said, "It's my first iconic Disney role. I can't wait to be on a lunchbox!"

Hey, they call it show *business* for a reason--I guess it's my own fault if I persist in thinking of cinema as an art form.

Posted by: kbertocci | November 18, 2007 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Ah, Oxford! I spent a month there in the summer of 1972, in a program sponsored by the University of North Carolina at Asheville. I have always wished I were in the league to apply for and receive a Rhodes scholarship, but, alas, I wasn't. Loved the place and would love to visit again. When elder daughter was in Europe in 2003, she went there to meet a friend and did what I asked her: went to Blackwell's and bought me a hardback copy of Persuasion. Now, if I could just go myself and buy the other five...

Posted by: Slyness | November 18, 2007 1:51 PM | Report abuse

It is kind of sad, isn't it, that the movie serves the marketing. But then we see that all the time. The governing serving the elections...etc. Perhaps that is why independant films is so strong right now.

Oh Yoki, I love your Ireland pictures. So lovely.

Posted by: dr | November 18, 2007 2:00 PM | Report abuse

I want to know if Boodles was porch-worthy, Yoki.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 18, 2007 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Today's Sunday Source interviews people living here from other states about what reminds them of home and what they miss. For our North Carolina residents (and Tar Heel exiles like TBG's husband) here's what the woman from North Carolina said:

Andrea Hall, 35, District

Home town: Mount Airy

Years in Washington: Four

What reminds her of North Carolina: Market Lunch (306 Seventh St. SE., 202-547-8444) at Eastern Market. Not only does the feel of the counter remind me of lunch counters my dad used to take me to in Mount Airy, they also serve North Carolina-style barbecue there. I have gotten into many friendly arguments waiting in line as to what the "real" N.C. barbecue is, a long-standing debate in that state. What does Eastern Market have? I say it's closer to the Lexington style, but my boyfriend, who is a born-and-raised North Carolinian, says it is closer to what he thinks is true N.C. barbecue: eastern style. One thing we both agree on: It's delicious!

What she misses: Being surrounded by people who understand the importance of Tar Heel basketball. I understand there are a number of Tar Heels around D.C., but in Chapel Hill from October to March, it's all basketball, all the time. Friends and work colleagues here in D.C. just don't get it!

Posted by: pj | November 18, 2007 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Here's the link to the article. It also interviews folks from states inhabited by other boodlers, like California, Florida, Oklahoma, and Oregon.

Posted by: pj | November 18, 2007 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Great photos, Yoki. But to answer your question, alas, I had nothing to do with Boodles Emporium of Bling. Now, if you'd asked me about the founding of Boodle's gin....

(Loved the Einstein-diving-into-a-pie sequence, by the way.)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Pj, I've lived in DC so long I guess I count as a native, but there's one place in DC that does remind me of where I originally came from; the U.S. Botanical conservatory desert exhibit.

It's good to see cacti again. Now if they had lizards and ant lions in with the exhibit I'd be happy.

That and the cartoons starring Wilbrod E. Coyote (Certified Genius).

I still remember how I thought we had moved to the freakin' rainforest when we came to the DC metro area. It's more like a freakin' McMansion jungle those days.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 18, 2007 3:21 PM | Report abuse

I am sitting here goofing off on the computer, listening to the football guys announcing the eastern conference finals.

If the teams don't do something quick, one guy is going to give himself a hernia from shouting. Poor tv annoucer guy.

Posted by: dr | November 18, 2007 3:48 PM | Report abuse


Love that Lakes of Killarney photo. I could get used to that view in a hurry.

Posted by: pj | November 18, 2007 3:50 PM | Report abuse

And now for something completely different.

Posted by: Maggie O'D | November 18, 2007 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Where are you from, Wilbrod? I was in the Botanical Garden a couple of months ago and liked that area, too. It's completely alien to me, as is the rain forest area, since I grew up around here but is was fun to see.

Posted by: pj | November 18, 2007 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Down Arizona way, PJ.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 18, 2007 4:03 PM | Report abuse

OK... I've gotta say it...

Beat Dallas.

Posted by: TBG | November 18, 2007 4:19 PM | Report abuse

What in DC reminds me of home? Doing any organized 5k, 10k or longer race that starts or ends near the mall. Runners and walkers are friendly people and after a few runs in the shadows of Jefferson and Lincoln it feels like a jog in your own neighborhood. Ony better, because it's pretty flat.

Posted by: frostbitten | November 18, 2007 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Since we're not allowed to talk about airplanes, I'm talking football. Cleveland just kicked the strangest field goal in the entire history of football, to tie the game with no time left. The Ravens, thinking the FG was bad, left the field, and now have to come back and play an overtime period.


And while I'm watching that, the Skins scored a TD again you-know-who. Unbelievable.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 4:36 PM | Report abuse

I'd rather talk about airplanes. Reely.

(Just kidding! I'm sure boodlers scroll by my uninteresting-to-them comments all the time.)

Loved the pics of Ireland - the old sod. Reminds me a lot of the misty, green PNW.

Posted by: mostlylurking | November 18, 2007 4:57 PM | Report abuse

How strange, Mudge? Did they have a mule on the field to kick it?

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 18, 2007 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Is "Gus" on TV somewhere? That movie is an under-rated Conway/Knotts classic. And "under-rated Conway/Knotts classic" is/was a GoogleNope.

Posted by: yellojkt | November 18, 2007 5:24 PM | Report abuse

And for a lazy Sunday read, the Travel section article on Palm Beach is right on the money.
I have very fond memories of the Breakers from when I stayed there eighteen years ago, just nine months or so before my son came along. Don't draw any conclusions from that.

Posted by: yellojkt | November 18, 2007 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Yello, I actually know about that movie, think I've seen it or clips thereof.
It's not on right now as far as I know. I have NEVER heard of "Mannix" on the other hand.

But then I never heard of a lot of old mystery/PI shows until recently, like "Nash Bridges". I had to be told about "Get Smart", too, and I was told that the black and white clips of Shatner on Boston Legal were from an old TV show that was kind of like an early Perry Mason-- one of his very first TV gigs ever, when he was like 18. Brilliant use of old material.

My dad said "I bet Shatner really likes seeing those clips of his hey days used."

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 18, 2007 5:44 PM | Report abuse

I remember "Mannix" quite well and the article in the Post is great. Other shows, like "Streets of San Francisco" and "The Untouchables" are just now coming out on DVD. So maybe they'll get "Mannix" out. I took a while for "The Rockford Files" to come out and then they released several seasons pretty quickly. The quotes from the corporate folks were about as noncommittal as you can get, so maybe someone there is working on it.

I'm glad Mike Connors is doing well, but it was really sad to hear about Gail Fisher.

Posted by: pj | November 18, 2007 6:07 PM | Report abuse

OK, trivia quiz with only one question: On the WaPo home page at the moment is a painting by Edward Hopper showing a sailboat. 100 bonus points and a free decorati0on of your choice from the newly scandalized shop steward's office to the first person who can correctly identify the type of boat.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 6:09 PM | Report abuse

[Oh major, major expletive]

*this in relation to something that just happened in the Redskins game. involving the overturning of a play*

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Ahem. After careful analysis I have concluded that it is a sailboat. Also, it is white.

Thank you.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 18, 2007 6:18 PM | Report abuse

Wow, did you see that catch?

(Yeah, yeah, talkin' to myself. So what else is new.)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Your color palet is excellent, Padouk. Your knowledge of sailboats somewhat less so.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Mudge I'm just trying to be very conservative in my assessment. Seriously, what kind is it? I have spent a few minutes flipping through a few sailing websites and kind find anything definitive.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 18, 2007 6:29 PM | Report abuse

SCC: can't find.

And as a young lady is getting grumpy at me for not reading with her, I fear I must give up the search.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 18, 2007 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Cat boat--as depicted in Hopper's painting.

Posted by: Loomis | November 18, 2007 6:35 PM | Report abuse

In Maryland, the best guess is skipjack, but that will not work here.

Mudge, could it be a catboat or a sunfish? That is all I can venture, from my years in the deck chair at Boy Scout camp in the High Sierra. Note: I only watched them. I have never been on a sail boat in my life. Johnboats, canoes, dinghies, but nary a sail boat.

Yes. You heard right. I was a lifeguard (lady) on the Sat to Sun changeover for laddies at Bass and Huntington Lakes, near Crystal Cave.

Posted by: College Parkian | November 18, 2007 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Loomis wins a stunningly cliched piece of Lladro--I believe it may be a shepherd playing a pan flute--from the bunker. Unless you'd rather have the Thomas Kincaid painting of a cottage by a moonlit lake.

Oh what the hell. Take 'em both.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Very good Loomis. Quick, too.

My neighbor today has decided to call our team the Cackalacky Cats. I concur.

Posted by: Jumper | November 18, 2007 6:41 PM | Report abuse

It's the famous "Really Big Rudder" sailboat?

Posted by: pj | November 18, 2007 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Now I'm crackalacking up. I searched "cackalacky" in Wikipedia.

Posted by: Jumper | November 18, 2007 6:45 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Not good

Posted by: Boko999 | November 18, 2007 7:17 PM | Report abuse

While you can't expect me to compete with the eloquence of a trained professional, I think you'll agree our analyses jibe.

Posted by: Boko999 | November 18, 2007 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Yes. No question about it.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 7:26 PM | Report abuse

I'll just gently point out that Ivansdad is a happy man right now -- and there's a new Simpsons episode tonight.

I'm having trouble typing due to a parental injury. The Boy & I were out about 3:30 tossing a football back and forth (ineptly, on my part) and I jammed the ring finger on my left hand. I sang a whole Evensong service with it in an ice pack, so my wedding ring didn't cut off the circulation. Ah, the sacrifices we make for our children.

Posted by: Ivansmom | November 18, 2007 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Mudge, I'd love to be here talkin' football with you in real time, but alas in the G household we watch football in Tivo time... that is we turn the TV on after the game's been on for at least a half hour so we can fast forward if we so desire. And with our many pauses and rewinds and replays in super s-l-o-o-o-o-w motion we're usually not finished with a game until it's really been over for an hour or so.

So that means I can't visit the Boodle... even the WaPo site at all while the game's still on here. Of course, today we didn't bother to watch all the way to the end. Mainly because the Tarheels are on now (in Tivo time as well) and Mr. G was anxious to watch a game his team would most likely win.

Posted by: TBG | November 18, 2007 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Well, d@mmit, TBG, don't leave me in suspense. Did the Fighting Clackalacky Cretins win or not?

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 8:33 PM | Report abuse

It's basketball... UNC (currently ranked #1) vs Iona. It's not over yet on my TV, but it's 76 to 42. You tell me what you think.


Go Heels.

Posted by: TBG | November 18, 2007 8:38 PM | Report abuse

I haven't read past Curmudgeon's nautical challenge, so maybe someone else has answered already. The perspective makes it a bit difficult to tell if the mast is fully forward, but I don't see any hints of a jib. That tells me it's a cat-boat, though I'm not sure I've seen one with a topping yard. The highly raised cockpit coaming also looks a lot like cats I've seen. Why is that such a popular style for catboats?

Posted by: ScienceTim | November 18, 2007 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Cats don't like water.

Posted by: Ivansmom | November 18, 2007 8:42 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah.. I forgot... I looks like a catboat.

Posted by: TBG | November 18, 2007 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Ivansmom nailed it.

My catboat has a topping yard. With a gaff rig, they're required. You're probably thinking of a marconi-rigged cat, Tim.

Just thought I'd point out the Flash is significantly faster than a catboat.

But you all probably knew that. I was just making sure.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 8:50 PM | Report abuse

I've always wanted a catboat. A catboat at anchor is one of the most restful things I've ever seen. It just looks like an undemanding boat -- technically undemanding, that is. All boats are giant money-sinks and require stupendous effort, and wooden boats even more so. But it looks like you could have a few glasses of a nice full-boadied red, then declare "Zut! The wind, he has freshened. Let us follow the waves and capture the fading light of the Sun upon the salty blue." Raise that sail, and majestically progress sur la mer. Bien.

Posted by: ScienceTim | November 18, 2007 8:52 PM | Report abuse

But it is white. I mean, I did get that part right.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 18, 2007 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Interesting op-ed
When Handouts Keep Coming, the Food Line Never Ends

"...there is something in the food-banking culture and its relationship with donors that dampens the desire to empower the poor and take a more muscular, public stand against hunger."

Posted by: fristbitten | November 18, 2007 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Watch that doesn't become septic. You don't know where he's been.

Posted by: Boko999 | November 18, 2007 9:25 PM | Report abuse

I am curious how Loomis got the correct answer. Is it because of experience with art, or experience with boats? In either case it was impressive.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 18, 2007 9:42 PM | Report abuse

Good question, Padouk. Loomis was unusually circumspect on that point.

But yes, you were also quite right. That particular catboat was white. A very popular color among catboats (although mine is black with a red bottom, and is named "Nutmeg of Consolation," after the O'Brian novel.)

And now, for something completely different. This afternoon I made an old family favorite for dinner, and this particular variant turned out to be the best I've ever made, so I thought I'd post that recipe here (I don't think I have before). I originally learned how to make it from my "ex," lo these many (38) years ago, tinkered with and refined it a bit, etc. At the time she was a reporter working for UPI in Philly, and I was a reporter in Allentown. She had an apartment and a roommate, and on Saturday night everybody was too exhausted to go out, so the three of us would throw this dinner together, eat, clean up the kitchen, watch the Mary Tyler Moore show, the roommate would disappear, we'd neck for 15 minutes, and I'd drag my weary butt home by 10.

Halcyon days. Anyway, here it is:

Arlene's Saturday Night Dinner

Serves 4

5 large boneless, skinless chicken breasts, brined (see below)
2 boxes, chicken Rice-a-Roni
1 medium onion, chopped small (1/2-inch or less)
2 stalks celery, chopped small
24 oz. (1 box) low-sodium chicken broth
4 tablespoons apricot jam or preserves
2 tablespoons Emeril Lagasse's "Essence" (or similar)
1 tablespoon minced garlic
½ cup plus 1 tablespoon kosher salt or sea salt, divided
fresh ground black pepper
1 packet, Lipton onion soup mix
1 cup, white wine (a medium sweet table wine preferred)
3 bay leaves
3 tablespoons olive oil
2 oz. butter or margarine
16.-oz can of Mandarin oranges*** (optional)

1.) Take five boneless skinless chicken breasts* and cut them into three or four large pieces each, trim and discard fat, if any, and place in a large bowl. Cover with ½ cup kosher salt, 3 bay leaves broken into smaller pieces, and cover with water. Allow to soak in brine for 2 hours (theoretical minimum 1 hour, theoretical maximum up to 8 or 9 hours).** After brining, rinse with clean water and pat dry on paper towels.
2.) While chicken is brining, chop onion and celery. In a large electric skillet (preferred) or large frying pan or skillet that can be covered, heat 2 tablespoons butter or margarine and 2 tablespoons olive oil. Add chopped onion and celery and cook about 15 minutes on medium heat. Add minced garlic and cook two more minutes.
3.) Add contents of two boxes of chicken Rice-a-Roni (do NOT add contents of flavor packets; hold them aside until later). Cook about 20 minutes, until the "Roni" part is lightly browned, stirring frequently. When Roni is nicely browned, remove everything from the skillet and hold aside in a bowl, but do not clean skillet.
4.) After chicken is rinsed and patted dry, add one remaining tablespoon of olive oil to skillet and add chicken pieces. Sprinkle half (about one tablespoon) of "Essence" on top of chicken. Cook on medium/high heat (about 400 degrees on electric skillet setting) until nicely browned, about 8 minutes. Turn chicken pieces over, sprinkle with remaining Essence, add about 8 to 10 grinds of coarse-ground black pepper (to taste) and cook about 8 minutes, until browned.
5.) Leave chicken in pan, but push to one side. Add about half of the white wine to the skillet to deglaze bottoms of pan to dislodge any "fond." Immediately add 24 oz. of chicken broth, remainder of white wine, both Rice-a-Roni flavor packets, packet of Lipton onion soup mix, apricot jam or preserves, reduce heat to medium (350 degrees), add onion/celery/Rice-a-Roni mix, stir well, cover skillet and cook until all liquid is absorbed and rice is tender, stirring occasionally, about 30 to 40 minutes.***

*Chicken breasts can be fresh or frozen. If frozen, defrost just enough so you can cut them into pieces (microwave for four minutes). No further defrosting is necessary, as brine will finish the job. Also, you could easily substitute chicken thighs or legs or leg quarters, with or without skin, as preferred.
**I have made this dish many times, both with brining and without. The brining admittedly adds to the preparation time, but the dish is always noticeably better with brining than without. Working people could easily make this in two phases: In the morning before going to work, cook the onion/celery/Rice-a-Roni mix, and then put in bowl and refrigerate all day. But chicken in brine in the morning and allow it to brine covered in the refrigerator all day. When you come home from work, you can finish the dish in about an hour in the skillet.
***Usually when I make this dish, about 5 minutes before the very end of cooking, I add a 16-oz. can of Mandarin oranges WITHOUT the juice. But this step can be omitted. (One of my kids doesn't like it when I do this, so I don't always use the oranges. Nevertheless, he says this is one of his favorite dinners.)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 18, 2007 10:13 PM | Report abuse

I must mention there catboats to my buddy Dave. He's looking for a shallow draft sailboat for Lake Nippissing (stop it!)which is shallow and shoaly. A 26 footer w/ cabin might fufill his requirements although I'm not sure about a sailboat on that lake as a breeze strong enough to provide decent sailing raises a frightful chop.
I have fond memories of the Sunfish we had at the cottage when I was a kid. We used to take it and surf along the wakes of the great lake lakers then go buzz the bathing area of the Oak Ridge Hospital for the ciminaly insane. Some people found gathering by the fire and telling scary stories to the wailing of the insane asylum siren a bit much but others were able to make it work for them. I thought "The Hook" benefited tremendously.

Posted by: Boko999 | November 18, 2007 10:16 PM | Report abuse

I know of a similar dish called "taco chicken"... similar, that is, in using apricot jam/jelly, along with paprika and other stuff. It's very tasty indeed, used to be a favorite of mine. I still have the recipe for it.

But I long ago gave up that recipe and other extremely sweet meat recipes.
Else, my waistline would have exceeded the width of your boat long ago. That stuff is like heroin.

Posted by: Wilbrod | November 18, 2007 10:59 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if this is how Loomis did it, but if you google images -edward hopper sailboat- you should end up with both his 1922 etching "The Catboat" and "Groundswell," the 1939 painting featured on the WaPo home page. The etching is at the MFA Boston.

Posted by: frostbitten | November 18, 2007 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Catboat was a cinch. The hard question is "Why is the composition of this Hopper painting such a classic?"

Kincaid is dreck. Lladro only a very slight improvement. Blech. How about a Hopper print?

Posted by: Loomis | November 19, 2007 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Of course a Sunfish is a totally unsuitable sailboat for transporting insane asylum inmates. For a job like that I would have used the punt my uncle built. While heavy and slow it was very stable and spacious enough to accomodate any trashing about.

Posted by: Boko999 | November 19, 2007 12:11 AM | Report abuse

Morning,friends. Short words this morning. Fingers, I need a new set. It is Monday morning the beginning of a new week.

It is the week of Thanksgiving. What scary tale will we read this week? What human folly will take place this week? Will all be well or do we need to pack a small bag?

Looking at CNN last night I kind of got a taste of this week's beginning. A would be minister decided to put his daughter in the microwave because the child was crying. She has multiple burns over her small body. This piece of life says the Devil made him do it, although he's changed that story a number of times. The child's mother agrees with the would be minister, the child's father.

The next installment. A man in Wal-Mart pretends to be cop to a nine year old girl so he can molest her. All this takes place in the store. The girl kicks him in the groin and yells for her mother. They caught this charmer in the store. Quick thinking young girl.

After those two news items, I went to bed. Television somehow just did not do it for me. Of course, all of this was on Nancy Grace. I don't watch her, but was channel surfing. She calls African-American women "girls" regardless of their age.

Two days of school, and then they're out. Have a good day, and a lovely holiday.

God loves us so much more than we can imagine through Him that died for all, Jesus Christ.

Posted by: Cassandra S | November 19, 2007 3:28 AM | Report abuse

The more important news, of course, is Cassandra's getting here ahead of me in the morning. :-) *HUGS*

*recovering-from-watching-the-Pats-win-in-this-short-week-for-alomst-everyone Grover waves*


Posted by: Scottynuke | November 19, 2007 5:16 AM | Report abuse

SCC: almost

*scrambling for more coffee*


Posted by: Scottynuke | November 19, 2007 5:17 AM | Report abuse

'Morning, Cassandra, Scotty. Anybody want a nice Thomas Kincaid or a piece of Lladro? I can't seem to unload this stuff. (Not that it wasn't kind of several of you to add more homey touches to the bunker and shop steward's office).

I'm taking this Redskins' loss particularly hard. I expected (and could have lived with) a 35-0 blowout. But no. For once they hadda stick in there and actually have a chance at winning.

Well, it's the start of another grueling two and two-thirds-day work week before it's time for more food and football.

Boko, the only 26-ft catboat I know of for your friend Dave is the Nonsuch 26 (, which is unusual for its "wishbone" rig. But still a very good boat. But she's gonna cost him a fair piece of change--in the region of $40,000 to $50,000, which is quite a lot for a boat that size. (But she has the interior of a 30-footer). He might be much better off considering a Marshall 22 (about $73K new, but used ones available at much more reasonable prices); see http://www dot marshallcat dot com/M22Lines dot htm
Here's five used cats; two in the $20,000 range.¤cyid=100&hmid=&ftid=&enid=&city=&spid=&rid=&cint=&msint=&ps=30

However, if I may suggest, he might be just as happy with a used Herreshoff America (came from the same hull mold as my Nutmeg), which he can easily pick up for about $5k.

Glad to have you back, Cassandra.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 19, 2007 6:00 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, Scotty, that 56-10 lead the Pats built up musta made you a nervous wreck all through the second half. Ya never know when Buffalo might mount one of their famous 47-point comebacks late in the 4th quarter.

(Don't tell me you stayed up all night to watch, did you? I'd have gone to bed at the end of the first half, when it was already 35-7. And Brady's five TDs...tell me, at what point does watching him become boring and repetitive?)

OK, never. All right. So be it. (You know I'm just jealous.)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 19, 2007 6:09 AM | Report abuse

Morning all... [where's the coffee?]... Pulling drive-to-school duty this week as the regular driver is on a cruise with her family. Son of G comes home today!

Very smart daughter begins conversation this morning at 6:00 a.m.... "Mom.. do I have to go to school on Wednesday? It's a very short day and we're not doing anything?"

Very tired, used-to-getting-up-at-8 Mom replies, "No honey. You don't."

It was hard to suppress my, er... giggles... when my neighbor gushed about her new Kinkaide print over her mantle. The painter of light? Loomis had the right word.. the painter of dreck. Mudge, maybe you can give her that awful Hopper-esque print of James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, Humphrey Bogart and Elvis. I don't know who brought that into the bunker, but we've been trying to get rid of it for ages.

Me? I want the dogs playing poker.

Posted by: TBG | November 19, 2007 6:45 AM | Report abuse

'Mudge, watching the Pats this year is...

I dunno.

Watching your favorite band live, and they do all your favorites JUST the way you like?

Watching a no-hitter?

It's the sheer artistry of it, really. Although the last score, the "fumble" that fell right into Hobbs' hands in full stride, was just... Wow.


Posted by: Scottynuke | November 19, 2007 7:50 AM | Report abuse

I think we should strive to have the bunker look like this:

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 19, 2007 8:12 AM | Report abuse

'Morning, boodle. It is a short school week; the bane of all educators. The password today is...*evolution*...BING!

Posted by: jack | November 19, 2007 8:12 AM | Report abuse

That's EXACTLY what it looks like, RD. But with antlers.

Posted by: TBG | November 19, 2007 8:14 AM | Report abuse

Here's a link that doesn't require NYT registration.

Anyone wishing to redecorate the Bunker should look carefully at this site. I feel this designer captured, you know, the inner vision-thing of the space.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 19, 2007 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Tim, my neighbour's definition of a sailboat is " a hole in the water you are trying to fill with money". He should know, he has two.
I pulled for the Redskins Mudge, but sticking needles in my TO action figure obviously didn't work. I'll set it on fire next time.
It's a tad nippy here this morning, -8C/18F, the cat was really happy to get in.

Posted by: shrieking denizen | November 19, 2007 8:16 AM | Report abuse

TBG - got it covered.

Posted by: RD Padouk | November 19, 2007 8:19 AM | Report abuse

TBG, for even worse than that "awful Hopper-esque print of James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, Humphrey Bogart and Elvis," check out the works of Chris Consani. I saw prints for the first time a week or two ago and was so alarmed I felt compelled to write a very snotty blog post about it (

Posted by: byoolin | November 19, 2007 8:23 AM | Report abuse

New kit!

Posted by: Raysmom | November 19, 2007 8:45 AM | Report abuse

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