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Reverse Racism?

There are murmurings about "reverse racism" in presidential politics. The idea is that some people will vote for Obama just because he's black, and this, we're told, is every bit as racist as voting against Obama because he's black.

See, for example, a comment at 4:17 p.m. yesterday on this blog:

"Ask yourselves this: Why are Blacks overwhelmingly for Obama? I would be surprised if he got less than 95% of Blacks' vote. Doesn't THAT constitute racism???"

No, actually.

For one thing, blacks have been the most loyal Democratic constituency in recent years, and they'd vote overwhelmingly for the Democrat even if he were green or purple. (My guess is that Alan Keyes wouldn't get a lot of black votes if he were the Republican nominee running against a white Democrat.)

But more broadly, I don't think racial solidarity among minority groups is the same thing as racial prejudice. When you're outnumbered, it's only natural to look out for your own. And there's some history here, you know? To expect African Americans to be color-blind in an election with an African American on the ballot is to demand that people forget about 389 years of history in this country (I'm dating it to Jamestown, 1619).

A good general rule in life is to avoid telling other people how they should think. Such lecturing is particularly egregious when the targets of instruction have a long history of being patronized -- and worse.

Sure, I don't think the residents of Athens in 2008 should vote against a politician from Sparta just because of what happened in the Peloponnesian War. Nor should anyone vote against someone else simply because of his or her race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, etc. I think most people in America can, and do, regularly vote outside their community.

If Barack Obama wins, it probably won't be because of his race. Same if he loses. That's just speculation, but I'll throw it out there. In fact, to a remarkable degree, race hasn't played a particularly significant role in this campaign.

That's one reason it was unhelpful, at best, for Rush Limbaugh to shout into the microphone yesterday, "IT WAS TOTALLY ABOUT RACE." He was talking about the Colin Powell endorsement of Obama.

Obama's strategy has been to position himself as a transformational figure who embodies a kind of post-racial society. He's multicultural down to his DNA. But there may be some people who see a political opening in shoving race to the forefront of the conversation. Race remains one of the ultimate wedge issues. And fear is an emotion that can overwhelm reason.

There isn't one pundit in America -- not one human being, for that matter -- who could have predicted that a black man would run for president in 2008 and would wind up being called an arugula-eating, passionless elitist who doesn't know what it's like to be a plumber. We live in mysterious times.

--

My kit today echoes something CowTown posted yesterday afternoon in the boodle:

"Looks like the familiar 'African Americans can be racists too' theme is popping up again. It's probably a good time to address our functional definition of 'racism.' Is it merely taking positions that favor one's own ethnic subculture? Is it supporting or not supporting a candidate/potential employee/potential in-law because of skin color? In that case, I would suppose that 'racism' can be generic among all ethnicities.

"But the history between Caucasian-Americans and African-Americans has, of course, been a bit more complicated than that. In this history, 'racism' has been used as a justification for the oppression of African-Americans. I'm talking about segregation, vote-suppression, lynchings, anti-miscegenation laws, 'sunset' laws, and various forms of codified discrimination in housing, employment, travel, etc. This oppression is what is commonly regarded as 'racism.' And this oppression was never visited upon Caucasian-Americans.
"So, can African-Americans be 'racists?' Yes, if you deny the last 300 years of oppression of African-Americans."

And here's an interesting comment by Martooni:

"My own family (what's left of them) are very nice people but they think nothing of tossing the 'n' word out there. Half the time I don't think they even realize they're using it. One of the reasons we don't visit them [in SW Pennsylvania] with Little Bean very often is because of this. I've told them I find it offensive and don't want my daughter exposed to it and they apologize and say they didn't mean it in a 'racist way' and will try not to use it, but then they go and do it again.

"They're also pretty thick in the skull department when it comes to believing everything they see or hear on TV or radio or read on the internet. My aunt (my godmother), who is generally a very reasonable and kind woman, believes that Obama is an Arab and a Muslim and that if he's elected he'll sneak bin Laden into the country and personally hand him nukes and the keys to the White House. I tried my best to convince her otherwise, but it's like trying to reason with a bucket of rocks."

By Joel Achenbach  |  October 20, 2008; 7:46 PM ET
 
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Next: Darwin's Bar-Tailed Godwits

Comments

Testing..

Posted by: DNA Girl | October 21, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

will it work over here

Posted by: greenwithenvy | October 21, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Hey Bud.
I posted Pauling stuff a bit ago for you.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

I broke through!


Thank you for that, DM:
http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=603

Posted by: DNA Girl | October 21, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Birds return to the trees.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Joel, did you HAVE TO go and reopen those old wounds from the Peloponnesian War?

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Great kit Joel

Posted by: dmd | October 21, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

DNA Girl, thanks for the strip!

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

What's this? I am frostbitten, not frostbitten1 as I had to be at The Trail. Now I'm really confused.

Good elevation of boodle items into this kit. One day, should it survive as a major party, the reps will thank Powell for saving it.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 21, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Am I still me?

Posted by: dr | October 21, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Lost a post, I think, so I hope this isn't a double.

I am really confused, The Trail made me be frostbitten1 but things appear normal here.

Great elevation of boodle items to the kit. One day, should it survive as a major party, the reps will thank Powell for saving it.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 21, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

SCC on the double post, but at least I'm still me.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 21, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

having some trouble
though not boodle related
let's see where this goes

Posted by: Anonymous | October 21, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Woah! My words are in the kit?

I think I'll go blush now. ;-)

(btw... technically, they're in Central Western PA, halfway between Pittsburgh and Erie -- not that it really matters)

Posted by: martooni | October 21, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

The exit polls for 2004 in Virginia show blacks supporting Sen. Kerry 87-12. The latest SurveyUSA poll for Virginia shows blacks supporting Sen. Obama 85-11. At this point, there does not seem to be a statistically significant difference in the approach of the black population in Virginia to Democratic presidential candidates of different races when it comes down to voting.

Posted by: sct | October 21, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Rule of thumb: as soon as you hear the phrase "reverse racism", you know you're dealing with a racist.

Posted by: Cap'n Chucky | October 21, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Congratahoochies, Cow Town and Martooni!

You are elevated Boodlers.

Posted by: Brag | October 21, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I would just like to mention that racism isn't just a historical reality. If a person of color did manage to forget about slavery and segregation and lynching and so on, it wouldn't change the fact that he is confronted on a daily basis with inequities and prejudice. This country has a long way to go before we achieve the ideal that is represented in the person of Barack Obama.

Posted by: kbertocci | October 21, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Thank you so much for this post. It is so difficult as an African-American to try and explain your reasoning for supporting your candidate that happens to be African-American as well. Please don't misunderstand, I am certainly proud and pleased that I have the opportunity to vote for the first African-American presidential candidate in this country's history. But my reason for voting for Obama has much more to do with his stance on positions than his skin color.

African-Americans are NOT a monolith and we do have individuated opinions. But even when we try to articulate them, we are relegated back to the "blacks are racist" argument. If that's the case, we would have had a couple of African-American presidents by now. My community is much more nuanced than that, and we will vote based on our conscience and not our skin color.

Maybe others should do the same.

OBAMA/BIDEN '08!

Posted by: DinahS | October 21, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

always good words too martooni

I work with a girl in her 30's,very nice when we work together we each bring something different to dinner each week and share. She has no problem dropping the N word all over the place.Last night she told me there isn't anyway that a N was going to be president of our country.I told her it has nothing to do with whether he is black,white,green or purple. It is about what is best for our country.I also told her i believe Mr. Obamas ideals and ideas about what our country needs are much more sound then Mr MCCains.I usually vote along party lines,unless a opposing canidate really wows me. Mr Obama has wowed me.

Posted by: greenwithenvy | October 21, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

What a very odd post: The content does seem to imply that blacks can't be racist, and that term really only applies to whites. And that somehow "racial solidarity" is okay -- were that of course the case, then it would be perfectly acceptable for whites to only vote for whites, and Barack Obama would still be in the State Senate.

That blacks are loyal Democrats -- certainly that's true. But there still are a number of blacks who vote for the GOP. Those numbers can range, sometimes reaching mid double digits (say 16% or so, sometimes higher). In this race, it hovers around 1%, a ridiculous level.

And this is a howler: "A good general rule in life is to avoid telling other people how they should think."

What have people been told for at least decades: Don't think like a racist, don't think like a sexist, don't think like a ... fill in the blank.

To say now that one shouldn't say: Hey forget about race, vote the issues and the man (or woman).

Seems like a reasonable thing to ask people to think like.

Posted by: Saxon | October 21, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

from the previous boodle-
Slyness-your story of the 7 year old examining the candidates' positions and choosing Obama warms my heart. If he'd done the same, and still chosen McCain it would be just as heartwarming. I have great hopes that though we've raised them to feel inordinately wonderful and entitled, today's kids also feel capable of changing the world and are willing to do the work it takes-and it starts with caring enough to do some research.

Frostniece #3, also 7 years old, on why Obama's tax policy gets her support- "Americans need to pay taxes if they want good schools. How do they think we pay for government services?" Until now, most of her political involvement has been spurred by "save the bay" sentiments. She is the storm drain cop of the neighborhood making sure that kids don't throw candy wrappers and other trash into the drains because they'll end up in Chesapeake Bay. "You want to have crabs to eat, don't you?"

Posted by: frostbitten | October 21, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

You are right. Black people have been a loyal force in the Democratic party for a long time. Saying black people vote for Obama, because he's bi-racial, is like saying that women will switch from Hillary to McCain because he chose Palin. This Hillary supporter is now an Obama supporter. As far as Limbaugh, he lies. He's also made a lot of money by appealing to the worst in us. Turn him off.

Posted by: MN USA | October 21, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

some people distinguish between racial prejudice and racism, with the latter requiring a higher position in society that gives them the power to discriminate. those who follow this kind of definition believe that racial minorities cannot be racist (in the u.s.) because they've never occupied the position of power. (and even if obama were elected, this wouldn't change the structure in our society in terms of who owns stuff, who sits on boards, etc. obama's not going to appoint just african americans to his cabinet, at any rate.)

Posted by: L.A. lurker | October 21, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Joel, the last two kits are not only wonderfully considered and well-written, they're fundamentally important. Again, thank you.

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Arugula to you all. Thinking of lettuce, summer visits to my grandparents in Reading, Pa. were highlighted by Boston lettuce, which made wonderful sandwiches in combination wtih Lebanon bologna. For all the talk about farmers' markets today, I get the impression that Pennsylvania had plenty of fine local food back then. Including lots of apples.

A recent news story on Obama's career in the Illinois legislature mentioned that, as a freshman, he was not exactly welcomed by other black members. He had to earn acceptance as a bona-fide member of the black community, not only in the legislature but nationally.

Posted by: Dave of the Coonties | October 21, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Saxon--

I understand your challenge of the notion that African-Americans can't be racist. But you should think about it this way. In this country, as I understand it, race is a construct that is used to stratify our society into an hierarchy. In such, race is used to create a system of power dynamics.

Historically, in this country, whites have been at the top of the racial hierarchy while Blacks have been disproportionately affected and marginalized to the lowest ranks of that system. In such, racism is a system used to keep power in the hands of some and out of the hands of others. So yes, I think that it is possible to say that blacks can not be racist. I think it is absolutely fair to say that people of my race can be prejudiced. But I think it all comes down to your breakdown of the construct of race and how it is used within a societal context.

OBAMA/BIDEN '08!

Posted by: DinahS | October 21, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Follow-up on what seems to be some confusion. On the news story comment threads, the comments are in reverse time order (most recent first). The blogs put the comments in chronological order. The Trail does it in the style of the news articles. WaPo seems to have multiple commenting engines running on different parts of the site.

Another sure sign that you're talking to a racist is that they say "I'm not a racist, but..."

And I'm kinda tired of people using purple and green as alternative colors to prove they are racially color blind. If we really had green or purple people, there would be plenty of people willing to hate them for that.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 21, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

And another Front Page Alert...

And here's hoping Obama's detour to Hawaii to see his grandmother goes well.

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

My brother is sending me links to WSJ editorials. I'm not going to bite any more. If he can't argue on his own, to he11 with it. And you're right, Frosti, there is hope in the world when kids take responsibility for learning issues and doing the right thing by the environment.

Anonymous, love the haiku.

DNA Girl, love the Sinfest.

This said it all for me:

There isn't one pundit in America -- not one human being, for that matter -- who could have predicted that a black man would run for president in 2008 and would wind up being called an arugula-eating, passionless elitist who doesn't know what it's like to be a plumber. We live in mysterious times.

Yeah, we aren't there yet, by any means. Joel's right. But I have a feeling Martin Luther King Jr is looking at us and smiling.

Cassandra, are you okay? I'm missing you.

Posted by: slyness | October 21, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

To me, Racism is about keeping people out, not letting them in. And while I would, very much, like the world to be truly colorblind, this will take some time.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 21, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Joel,

Thanks for your post. A bit of historical perspective here: back when the GOP was the Party of Lincoln, it had no trouble getting black votes. Eisenhower got something like 45% of the African-American vote in 1956; even Nixon got 32% in 1960. Goldwater and his supporters, by conservatizing the GOP and throwing it against civil rights, cut that margin down to 4%, and the black vote has never come back to the Republicans.

Overwhelming African-American support of the Democrats isn't reverse racism, it's realistic rationalism. As long as conservatives dominate the GOP and the Southern strategy rules, Republicans will forfeit minorities' vote and with them any claim to be a national party. Perhaps that will change if moderates and non-Southerners regain control of the GOP, but I for one am not holding my breath.

Posted by: Geoff | October 21, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

95% of blacks voting for Obama in the general election isn't racist, because that's what typically happens.

But it was racist for 95% blacks to vote for Obama in the Democratic primaries. No voting bloc ever goes that strongly for one candidate in the primaries. That's racism right there.

Posted by: AK | October 21, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Hold on, so I'm confused here: a person voting for someone of the same race is an example of permissible "racial solidarity," whereas a person voting against someone because they are not of the same race is "racism." So a black person voting against McCain and for Obama is exercising his natural right to "racial solidarity" while a white person voting against Obama and for McCain is exhibiting his base, inherent racial prejudice? What if that white person is an ethnic Scot, and votes for McCain out of "racial solidarity" because their ancestors both originally hail from Edinburgh? Does this politico-racial theory here exclude whites from exercising "racial solidarity?" Can whites practice this "racial solidarity" without being "racists?" Am I effectively highlighting the inconsistencies and double-standards inherent in this nonsensical argument?

Posted by: live_from_muscat | October 21, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Limbough was, for a while anyway, peddling someone else's story that Obama's "Dreams of my father" whad been written by Barak's best buddy Bill Ayers. Apparently it was too well written for Obama's limited writing skills. What a buffoon and a bigot. Here's a case of a kettle calling the pot black, so to speak.

Outdoors, we are having a blustery, cold, dank and gloomy day.
On such days a little application of Prévert, by Yves Montand, can’t hurt.
http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=3502

Posted by: shrieking denizen | October 21, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Apple Day is an annual celebration, held on October 21 each year, of apples and orchards.

Apple Day was initiated by Common Ground in 1990 and has been celebrated in each subsequent year by people organizing hundreds of local events. Common Ground describe the day as a way of celebrating and demonstrating that variety and richness matter to a locality and that it is possible to effect change in your place. Common Ground has used the apple as a symbol of the physical, cultural and genetic diversity we should not let slip away. In linking particular apples with their place of origin, they hope that orchards will be recognized and conserved for their contribution to local distinctiveness, including the rich diversity of wild life they support.

Apple Day events can be large or small, from apple games in a garden to large village fairs with cookery demonstrations, games, apple identification, juice and cider, gardening advice, games and of course many hundreds of apple varieties.

The first Apple Day was on October 21st, 1990 in Covent Garden, London.

Posted by: omni | October 21, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Ten years ago the conventional wisdom was that the first Black president would be a moderate Republican. An "only Nixon can go to China" thing. The subtext was that the traditional firebrand type (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et. al.) were too polarizing for the general population. It would take a Colin Powell or Condi Rice type to break the color barrier.

And that is more or less the type of campaign Obama is running. Towards the middle, safe, and conservative. The blander he acts, the better Middle America likes him. A lot of conservatives are trying to raise some sort of Trojan Horse scare that Obama will be appointing Wright to the Supreme Court and Ayers as Secretary of Defense. Not to mention Rezko to Housing. Ain't gonna happen.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 21, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

I am personally starting to get really tired of people trying to redefine racism and then project it onto parties.

AKKK

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

omni, have a great apple day!

jkt, From what I hear from within the campaign, you have the appointed positions backwards... like you, I try to keep my ear pressed to the third rail of politics.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

yello, don't forget Osama Ben Laden as the head of the Religious Initiaves Office.

Posted by: shrieking denizen | October 21, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Of course they are. If you're picking your candidate based on the color of his skin then you're a racist.

Especially if he promises to benefit your race at the expense of other races. Sorry, it's true.

There's no such thing as "reverse racism", if you're making decisions about other people based primarily on their perceived race, then you are a racist.

Personally I believe it's all silly as there is only one race, the Human race. The rest is all superstition, like the moon is made of cheese and spilling salt prevents bad luck.

Posted by: ZZim | October 21, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

In the Virginia primary, Buchanan County only voted 9% for Obama while he took 64% of the state. Sounds like they were voting along racial lines out there.

The real breakthrough is that Barack has a significant white voter following. If only black voters were voting for Obama, he wouldn't be where he is.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 21, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Now I am going to ask a question of extreme silliness, from my not understanding of your electoral system.

I understand the registering to vote part, but when you step into the booth on presdiential election day, you still get to vote, one person, one annoymous vote. Yes or no?

Posted by: dr | October 21, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

live_from_muscat - Granted, it is subtle, but here's the difference.

A person voting against Obama because of his race is attempting to exclude a black person from the presidency because he is black. His motivation is purely to exclude any and all black people from the White House.

A black person voting for Obama just because of his race is not trying to exclude white people from the presidency. If this were the case, historically no black person would have ever voted for a white person - which is clearly not the case. Such a person is trying to break a closed game open.

Now, in the far off future world where both blacks and whites have an established track record achieving political power, then race based voting could, legitimately, be viewed as racist. But we aren't anywhere near to that scenario yet.

Got it?

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 21, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Joel, I can't believe you fixed your face to say this:

"But more broadly, I don't think racial solidarity among minority groups is the same thing as racial prejudice. When you're outnumbered, it's only natural to look out for your own. "

So it was "only natural" for white South Africans to "look out for their own" because they were a minority?!?!?!?!

So then in 2035, when white people are a minority in the US - as demographic trends are going - we can return to Jim Crow and that's OK with you?!?!?!?!

Please think about that, thanks.

Posted by: ZZim | October 21, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

I've always been amused by the term "reverse racism" for a number of reasons.

First, there is the underlying assumption that whites should not be discriminated against;

Second, in using that phrase, there is the underlying *admission* that whites have discriminated overtly against non-whites, and now they don't seem to like what they perceive as non-whites "discriminating" against the so-called "elite" whites.

And, are all the women who supported Hillary Clinton sexists for having supported her? And are those women who support Palin also sexist?

Just asking.

Posted by: firsttimeblogger | October 21, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

I am wondering if our country will be more or less racist if Mr Obama is elected president?

Our country needs a lot of fixing,our place in the world needs to improve.I guess some people will think this way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmxyj6iInMc

But Eye feel fine

Posted by: greenwithenvy | October 21, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

I know this is tengential to the main issue of race posted in the kit, but the historian in me must intervene.

Jamestown. 1607. Big 400-year celebrations about it last year. 1607.

1619 was the first House of Burgesses.

Ok...continue discussing race and politics.

Posted by: Karen A | October 21, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

testing again..

I'm going to re post the Virginian Pilot online article about fundraising in Hampton Roads again because it's astounding!

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/obama-leads-cash-battle-virginia-and-region

My ob-gyn is quoted in it, how about that? I also sat next to that reporter at a sentencing not too long ago and watched him write in what can only be describes as hieroglyphics at an amazing speed. ME, ME, ME it's all about me!

Thanks for that VL. I am remain, hopeful but not optimistic about Virginia. I won't allow the arrow on my emotional meter to move any further than that. But I am also very happy to read frostbitten1's (or whoever the heck she is)
Newport News updates.

Bathrooms are clean, time to walk the beagle boygle. Beautiful day here in Hampton Roads.

Bunker open?

Posted by: Kim | October 21, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

ZZim - Joel's comments were predicated on power and historical contingency. You can't take these quotes out of context. The underlying concepts are too complex.

In South Africa the minority whites still had the power. The system and history was different. It wasn't a democracy.

In 2035 whites will become one of many groups. I assert that they will still be doing pretty good. The scenario that whites will become a vassal to the former minorities is silly. And if this does come to pass, then, yes, Joel's analysis applies.

Look, the simple fact is the concept of a Black President changes the way people thing. The notion of a White President doesn't.

Posted by: RD Paoduk | October 21, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Oh, the pilotonline article was posted by Vintage Lady in the last kit. I didn't make that very clear. Well, I didn't make that clear at all.

Posted by: Kim | October 21, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

I am dismayed at how far people will go to believe anything they hear that reinforces negative opinions about politicians they don't like. I was talking to an uncle a couple months ago and one of his arguments against Obama was that he took the American flag off his airplane. "Anyone who hates the flag isn't getting my vote." was the quote.

Ye gods. Obama took the logo off the plane he is using. The logo was the American flag. He still has the flag on the fuselage. McCain doesn't have an American flag on the tail of HIS plane either. He also has the flag on the fuselage. We live in an increasingly silly time.

Posted by: steve boyington | October 21, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Testing.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

There is an important distinction here between calling something "Racist" and simply indicating that something is foolish.

To me, a black voter who decides to vote for any black over any white is a foolish voter, but is not necessarily racist. In the same way that I have often said that a woman who votes for any woman over any man is foolish, but not necessarily sexist.

Again, in my world those "ist" words are about exclusion.

Posted by: RD Padouk | October 21, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

*grading Ivansmom's test* :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

So you argue that minority status makes racial preferences, and actions in support of those preferences, acceptable?

Congratulations, in that whites are a minority in South Africa, you just justified Apartheid. Care to rethink your argument?

Posted by: Rightie | October 21, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Liz at Celebritology says that the big comment switchover there is still a few days off and there will be a couple of hours of downtime when it happens. Our mileage may vary.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 21, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Steve, doesn't McCain's plane have a Budweiser bottle on it?

I am wondering if FOX news is having an impact on the basics of natural selection.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

This column is idiotic. Miraculously, the Democrats are never ever racist - by definition, apparently. Despite being so preoccupied by race that actual threats like, say, militant Islam are ignored in favor of hand-wringing about mysterious "racism", the Democratic party is itself the largest purveyor of racism in the country. Jesse Jackson calls Obama a n*gger and nobody bats an eye. People who question Obama are smeared as racist ipso facto, because apparently having doubts about a guy with no experience who hasn't met a far left communist bomb thrower he doesn't like means you hate black people. Or half black people. Or something.

I'm waiting for the day when minorities in America - of which we ALL WILL BE SOON - wake up and realize that Democrats have a vested interest in keeping every single minority group in a "victimized" position in order to get their votes. The fact that 95% of blacks vote Democrat is not a condemnation of the Republicans, it actually shows just how effective Democrats are at keeping blacks feeling downtrodden. Think about it: you keep voting Democrat, and nothing ever improves - so you blame Republicans and keep voting Democrat! It's insane!

The simple fact of the matter is that the more wealthy anyone becomes - minority or otherwise - the more they start voting Republican. Republicans have a vested interest in making people wealthier, while Democrats have a vested interest in keeping everyone right around the poverty line. That's true racism.

Posted by: Rory | October 21, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Clearly, rightie isn't "read=ie"

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Kim- Look at it this way, even if your area goes overwhelmingly for McCain he's having to fight for every VA vote when it was supposed to be a cake walk (makes me think red velvet cake would be a good dessert for an election night party).

Michelle Obama has impressed a lot of military family members. I received this link from the wife of a South Carolina NG member whose husband deployed with Mr. F in '05-it mentions blue star families for Obama in Norfolk, VA.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14733.html

Posted by: frostbitten | October 21, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

of course blacks are racist...just listen to black radio, the philly station is the worse as far as spewing hate for the white man...and the people spewing the hate are the ones whose face appear representing blacks to America...

Posted by: Dwight | October 21, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

*giving Ivansmom an A+ and re-checking the combination to the Bunker* :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Howdy. Apparently I registered at some point as myself and am still here.

Thank for for these Kits, Joel. As Yoki says, they are profoundly important. They also, alas, seem to provoke a lot of muddy thinking. Some of the comments appear almost to deliberately misunderstand the issue. When one talks of racism in voting, there is an essential element of intent. A black person who votes for Obama or a white person who votes for McCain because they like him for president may be supporting someone of a similar race but is not casting a racist vote. If a white person votes for McCain because they will not vote for a black person, or a black person votes for Obama because they'd never vote for a white man, that's a racist vote. See the difference?

And, as has already been noted, historically black voters have a record of not casting racist votes, in that they've regularly voted for white candidates. On a national level, circumstances have prevented white voters from similarly proving a lack of systemic or regular racial bias in voting patterns. Until now.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

"Republicans have a vested interest in making people wealthier ..."

obviously... just define the people.

I really appreciate someone jumping to conclusions on a discussion of racism and dropping in the point about wealth. How wonderful!!!!

Great!!!

Fantastic.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Run Clarence Thomas for president and watch the African-American vote move to 10%.

The fact is, yes, African-Americans are proud of Senator Obama. They also are primarily in the middle- to lower-economic classes that the Senator appeals too.

Posted by: amaikovich | October 21, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

The South Africa/apartheid analogies are so off base. Apartheid was white rule with no votes for blacks and coloreds. Not at all similar to block ethnic voting if people aren't allowed to vote.

I'm done with crypto-racist trolls. That ought to spark some self-defensive umbrage.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 21, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Not only is it a blustery, cold, dank and gloomy day, it's raining and I'm right out of Perverts.
Sad but true.

I think I'll put on 'Blazing Saddles.'

Posted by: Boko | October 21, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

passes out the Troll Umbrage Protective Suits to yellojkt and the rest of the Boodle

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I don't think people vote on the basis of race, they vote on the basis of prejudice. I am prejudiced in favor of candidates who support the common man over the elite, the candidates who put the right thing over the expedient thing, the candidates who sees war as a last resort, and the candidates who will govern on the basis of knowledge and not opinion. I also harbor other prejudices, such as detesting bigotry in all its forms, whether based on social class, education, ethnic origin, gender, or color of skin. And, of course, I am intolerant of anyone who disagrees with this opinion.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 21, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the pep talks, VL and frosti. I'm just depressed because I was at a neighborhood function this weekend and a lady sitting at my table actually said that Obama supporters have a lot of nerve putting up signs "in this neighborhood". What the on earth does that mean? There were a couple of pieces in the local paper and news recently that Obama signs in Newport News were being stolen and one, in which my neighborhood was mentioned specifically, that McCain signs were being stolen. What the piece neglected to mention about my neighborhood is that the only McCain sign stolen in my neighborhood was posted in the commons area. (where there were no Obama signs) No signs were taken from anyone's yard. The sign ratio here is about 3 Obama to about a gazillion McCain's. Anyway, I know perfectly well what that lady meant and it depressed me to no end.

Sigh.

Posted by: Kim | October 21, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Thanks, Scottynuke, I was just hoping for a passing grade!

I'm interested in Rory's assertion that we'll all be minorities soon. Does he assume that we're all white here, and thus will all be outnumbered by persons of other colors, races or ethnicities? I'd challenge that on both points. Does he mean that all "real Americans", of whatever color etc. will be overrun by foreign immigrants? I'd challenge that as well, beginning with the assumptions surrounding the idea of real Americans and immigrants.

Or does he mean that in the foreseeable future, the American demographic will change to the point where race, color and ethnicity become essentially meaningless? I think this may well happen, I find the idea fascinating, and I look forward to it. Obama, a mixed-race adult, is by no means the anomaly he used to be. Mixed realtionships among all races etc. are much more common and are producing children who don't neatly fit into those fixed Census categories. The rise in American Asian and Latino populations, with their large variety of discrete and culturally different subgroups, will ensure that numerically blacks and whites are simply two other demographics, rather than the dominant ones. The resurgence of interest in Native American tribes, and immigration from yet other cultures, will further dilute the dominance of any single color etc. If that's what Rory means, I'm with him, but I think it's a good thing.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

of course Blacks are racist when they vote over 95% for obama. How could anybody not be in the bag for something when it is 95% for it? It is a statistical impossiblity not to be.

soooooo, be true to your race and vote your race. It has to be right if the black people do it. The only way we will eliminate affirmative action and entitlement is to vote equally white.

Posted by: tunaman | October 21, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Anon re your 11:22 - I join you in your prejudices.

Posted by: dmd | October 21, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

95% of blacks voting for Obama in the general election isn't racist, because that's what typically happens.

But it was racist for 95% blacks to vote for Obama in the Democratic primaries. No voting bloc ever goes that strongly for one candidate in the primaries. That's racism right there.

Posted by: AK | October 21, 2008 10:27 AM

AK.........I agree with you all the way.

Posted by: TWOTIMETUNA | October 21, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

I realize it uses the first part of your e-mail address, martooni. I was looking for astromom's elegant solution.

Posted by: dbG | October 21, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Kim, sounds like you should be congratulated for living in a "Pro-America" neighborhood. Don't forget that there are many conservatives who are walking away from this craziness. C. Buckley was just one of the latest.

This is all so ugly. To better understand where this is all coming from, you need to listen to Rush or watch 2 to 4 hours of FOX.

I heard a story from a friend in Utah who stated that she was threatened by an older woman in a hospital parking lot because my friend had an Obama bumper sticker. They other lady threatened to run her car into my friend's parked car and then proceeded to unleash some vulgarity about that Ay-rab, Obama.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

"If we really had green or purple people, there would be plenty of people willing to hate them for that."

'You SHOULD care if a person is purple. They're choking, you idiot.' -Some comedian.

It does seem a little quaint to me when someone whips out the "95%...racism" thing; all 4500 people who have said it (only 2000 of which have posted on The Fix) seem to think they're the first person to state some magnificent revelation that will leave the other side speechless. It is then explained to them in wasted detail (wasted as in trying to explain quantum mechanics to a 5 year old) what a ridiculous statement that is, and then the next troglodyte says the same thing 6 hours later. Lather, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat.

Racism/discrimination isn't racial prejudice by itself, nor vice versa, though they feed into one another. Racism is a systematic set of beliefs.
A 'belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement'.
A system of government, or a measurable and observable policy of an institution.
Hatred and intolerance of other races.
The belief that one race is SUPERIOR and another, or all others, INFERIOR. (I emphasize because this is the one necessary factor that links all these definitions together. Without this, claims of racism collapse.)

What we are seeing fits absolutely none of those definitions. Well... at least on the topic we're talking about, anyway. For Rush and Pat, I think we already know where racism fits into that equation.

A Caucasian in the U.S. can perhaps say they've experienced racial prejudice; they can't say they've experienced racism. Ultimately it speaks to the intelligence of people who believe "reverse racism" is an actual internally-consistent (Racism is racism no matter which way it goes; it can't be "reversed") and logical term that they would confuse the two.
But that "95%/racism" thing requires so much more than ignorance. It requires you to rip the entire situation out of any available context and isolate it in a perfect vacuum where no other variables could possibly touch it (like, say, the fact that most African Americans already vote for Democrats, and the Democratic candidate just happens to be black this time).

I agree with that Chucky feller. When you the words "reverse racism" coming out of someone's mouth... just turn your ears off.

Mind you, I'm holding back a tanker full of venom right now. It's my lunch break and I am still technically at my workplace. I try to stay classy here.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 21, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Anon,

those folks are trying to run 64 bit logic on a 32 bit mind.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse

DM, I was at a neighborhood social gathering some weeks ago where the retired Marine declared that Israel will bomb Iran if Obama is elected.

WTF?

I voted for Obama over Hilary in May, does that make me sexist?

Enough with the craziness. We Americans are a better people than this.

Posted by: slyness | October 21, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Thank you Rory. What a perfect example of the misdirective, rubber-vs.-glue non sequiturs us thinkin' folks have to deal with whenever we want to have a serious discussion. A whole lot of random unargued assertions mixed in with the desperate shouts.

Aw dang it. Some of it escaped. *wipes off fangs with a cool damp rag*

Posted by: Anonymous | October 21, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

This is the classic excuse: blacks can’t be racist, because they’ve been the victims of racism. Oh, and even if they are, it’s understandable.

The problem with this is that it is patronizing to the max. It assumes that blacks are not responsible as individuals, that they are first and last members of an oppressed group. Well, here’s a news flash: virtually all of us are, or were, at some time in history, members of an oppressed group.

There are certainly Americans whose ancestors have been on top for a long time. But not most of us. Most of us are descended from Europeans who came to America, mostly in the past 150 years, to escape famine, persecution, pogroms, and literal genocide.

Posted by: J.L. Rich | October 21, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

People who scream "black racism" because Obama may be getting 95% of the black vote conveniently forget that Al Gore, Michael Dukakis, and Walter Mondale each got 90% of the black vote. Last time I checked, those were white men.

Posted by: RasKente | October 21, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

I am a lifelong Democrat, and African American. I resent - deeply - the implication that I would vote for or against anyone because of skin color.

If we had seen, in 2000, a race between John McCain and Jesse Jackson, I probably would have voted for McCain! He had the respect and admiration of many Democrats back then. Jackson had already lost me at "Hymietown" and with his alliance with Louis Farrakhan.

Posted by: Carlaclaws | October 21, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

This is really good for Joel's unique page views!

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Just wondering... how can the Republican party have so many screws loose when so many of their members are wingnuts?

Actually, what bothers me the most about the accusations of racism and reverse racism is that those making the accusations know damn well they're only throwing them out there because McCain can't compete on real issues. They know that Powell based his decision on *issues*, not *race*. They just can't face the fact that their candidate can't win on issues.

So go ahead, wingnuts... toss some more trash out there so you can continue avoiding the real issues -- like the economy, the wars, health care, education, housing, etc.

Your rabid invective only pushes more and more Independents and fence-sitters toward Obama and the Dems in general.

btw... was there a sale on red herrings that I missed?

Posted by: martooni | October 21, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Who cares what Colin Powell's true motives were. No one knows, perhaps not even Powell himself. But, he clearly stated the reasons for his support, and it is these reasons, not his motives, which demand scrutiny.

“Shooting the messenger”, that great enemy of rational discourse, is a tool applied by the lazy and stupid when they find themselves incapable of “shooting the message”.

Posted by: JAG | October 21, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone have a link to the actual - black vote in the primaries - 95% seems really high and not what I remember, I also remember it varied somewhat state to state. If things are going to get tossed around it would be nice if they were accurate.

Posted by: dmd | October 21, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

From the article:

"Ask yourselves this: Why are Blacks overwhelmingly for Obama? I would be surprised if he got less than 95% of Blacks' vote. Doesn't THAT constitute racism???"

No, actually.

For one thing, blacks have been the most loyal Democratic constituency in recent years, and they'd vote overwhelmingly for the Democrat even if he were green or purple.
================================

Except of course, there is the Hilary Clinton example. Where I think most people accept that blacks in big numbers abandoned her as soon as a black candidate appeared to have the slightest chance of winning the Dem nomination. Racism? Yes, actually...

From the article:

"But more broadly, I don't think racial solidarity among minority groups is the same thing as racial prejudice. When you're outnumbered, it's only natural to look out for your own."
================================

What you mean is, there's the "good" racial prejudice and there's the "bad" racial prejudice. I guess we can figure which is the "good" and which is the "bad" here, eh? Like the bumper stickers that say, "End Racism" but really mean, "End Some Racism".


Well, I could go on... why bother?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 21, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

martooni, as I mentioned earlier, what is astounding is the number of folks "climbing over the fence."

Clearly, McCain's campaign team, many of whom did this to him in the past, are turning up the McCarthyism factor.

It is a very sad moment in America.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

You are implying that "300 years of oppression" is still climbing. Do you really believe that any lingering bias equates to oppression in 2008? If not when did "oppression" stop? How many years does that take off your count of 300?

Posted by: huh | October 21, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

'Good morning, Boodle. Oy vay. That's all I've got to say: oy vay.

DR asked a question a while ago: DR, the answer is yes, one person, one vote, secret ballot, party registration irrelevant.

*faxing poor cold, wet, miserable Boko some Preverts and a handwarmer*

*and a cuppa chicken soup it couldn't hurt*

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 21, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Any mouse, no need for venom. You're doing quite well without it and I'm sure much more pleasant to read. Reasoning and analysis triumph over venom and hate every time here at the Achenblog.

Your descriptions fit very well with my observation that racism - to vote in a racist way - requires an intent and an action. Just voting for your own perceived race doesn't do it: you must specifically cast your vote because you will not vote for the person of a different perceived race, because of their race alone.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

I was about to grouse to myself because today's discussion is no place for my usual tongue-in-cheekiness. But not so! This article pretty much proves that Obama is descended from Charlemagne. The same researcher reveals McCain is descended from Mohammed!
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200205/olson

Posted by: Jumper | October 21, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

"Granted, it is subtle, but here's the difference."

As subtle as a freight train growing arms and blowing a foghorn.
But some people just like to grab simple ideas and stretch/twist them until they're screaming for mercy, because it's all these people have.
The 5 people here parroting one another's statements, as usual, have read nothing that anybody else wrote before them. They're probably not even aware they're repeating other's statements, much less that those statements have been counter-argued.

Posted by: PseudoNuminous | October 21, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

huh, if you think racism - action by a dominant group in power against a different group based on racial prejudice -has stopped, ask around.

Start with your black neighbors. Thanks to the civil rights movement, widespread American cultural shifts, and the social unacceptability of overt racism against blacks in most of the U.S., it is expressed (in most areas, not all) more subtly.

Now move on and ask your Hispanic and Latino neighbors. Thanks to the rise of hysteria and fear surrounding immigration policies, they're probably suffering the most direct effects of racism right now.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Actually if I really did have venomous fangs, you probably wouldn't want me to be near Any Mice, because then I would probably be a snake. Or a platypus or something.
Either way, I wouldn't be able to post if I were one of those animals. Then again, I have already seen a haiku-writing dog from my severely-limited lurking, so I guess I could be a pseudo-numinous politically-minded snake of some kind.

Posted by: PseudoNuminous | October 21, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

PseudoSpiritual?
PseudoBeyondComprehension?
What?

:-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Joel, what flavor koolaid have you been drinking at C. Powell's reception?

Posted by: jvetter | October 21, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Hey, how 'bout dem Phillies?

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 21, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Got an Hour and some Chapstick?

“Yes, Virginia” the South is a-changing...

...but there’s a special reason why Northern Virginia is hopping mad!

(Warning, the following starts out sounding radical and (metaphorically) militant. Heck, even fulminating-wrathful! But I eventually get around to shining some light on an important - little noted - factor in this election.)

http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2008/10/yes-virginia-south-is-changing.html

Posted by: RealPatriot® | October 21, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

FYI, on the comments registration: It still hasn't kicked in yet. That may happen later today. I hope it's not too traumatic!

On some of the dyspeptic responses to my kit: I was going to respond to some of them (such as the absurd Apartheid analogy) but so many others have stepped in that my further blatherings don't seem necessary.

The one thing I'd point out is that in 1607 only Europeans arrived in Jamestown; the first Africans arrived in 1619. That's why I used that date.

See this:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1p263.html

Posted by: Achenbach | October 21, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Gonna be an interesting Series fer sure, 'Mudge.

:-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

African-Americans voting for Obama are not voting "against the white man", but plenty of McCain voters will be voting "against the black man". Therein lies the difference.

Posted by: Dav Laurel | October 21, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

George Dixon, if say, a large section of the white population were to repeatedly vote for a lets pick Republican party - does that make them sheep as well?

Posted by: dmd | October 21, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, how 'about them local sports teams?

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Yoki, how about favorite recipes?

Right now, I want to make some onion soup.

... may be weather related desire.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

For the people who think that blacks would vote for any black candidate running for office, one question:How many black votes do you think Clarence Thomas and Alan Keyes would get? my bet is 5% (and that would include their family members).Better yet how many black votes did Bill Clinton get? My guess close to 90%.

Posted by: Philippe | October 21, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Yoki, how are the Stampeders and the Flames? :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Mudge ,scotty and Yoki. i was going to throw this out there but hunger overwhelmed me

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.series21oct21,0,6475644.story

Posted by: greenwithenvy | October 21, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

So often the discussion gets roiled by real but subtle differences in the meanings of "racist" and "prejudice." I've harped on this before. Racism is systematic, prejudice is a more personal phenomenon.

It seems likely a tribal outlook is strongly encouraged by our genes. As with other factors resulting from primate similarities, we deal with this one poorly. Sports seems to be the best outlet, (what's the psychological term for this? "The best way to get rid of an urge is to give in to it") but even soccer fans riot like rabble.

In any case, prejudice is a multi-leveled phenomenon. I'm prejudiced by appearances sometimes. A guy, unshaven, dirty clothes, bad teeth, half his shirttail out, half in, walks towards me, barely able to balance: my prejudice tells me he's fixing to hit me up for some cash. That he's a drunk and a drug addict. And I'm usually right. But there's a chance I'm wrong. There are levels of certainty, ranging in percentage values, if you will. I propose there is guarded and conditional prejudice, and stupid and unjustified prejudice. I also propose that all racial prejudice is stupid and unjustified.

I'm not going to try to tie all this up here today. I will note myself, and some friends, have been guilty of prejudice against white people. When I got into a different phase of construction work, I tended to think most white construction workers around me were pro-Bush. After a year or so, though, I started asking some very neutral questions. Turns out I got far fewer of those attitudes than I expected. Lots of unprompted anti-Bush rhetoric, much of it heated and unafraid. I'm anglosaxon. So if I can have a bit of self-race prejudice, so can members of other races. It's no surprise at all.

People are very similar. Their outward mannerisms are colored by history, but all our failings, and our triumphs, are present in everybody. Equally.

Posted by: Jumper | October 21, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

The Caps start their western swing in Calgary tonite!

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Jumper, well put.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Oddly, I'm in the mood for an Apple Martini.

Posted by: omni | October 21, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

I'm so fed up with this election, the blathering of ignoramooses, uglyramooses, petrified Neo-conmooses. The mob supporting Mccain is enough to scare any respectable Republican. As this thing gets uglier, it will drive more and more Republicans to vote for Obama.

Posted by: Brag | October 21, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Omni,
I am always in the mood for a martini at lunchtime. :o)

Posted by: Brag | October 21, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, Real Patriot, for the link to Contrary Brin. I love Brin's take on politics, and I think he's right about the revolt of the Civil Service. As I've said before, Obama's promise to let civil service employees do their jobs was the reason I went for him.

Posted by: slyness | October 21, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

RealPatriot® provided a good link.

Posted by: Jumper | October 21, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I don't think I can stand racism AND hockey.

Thanks for the stuff, Mudge. You got an extra Teddy bear? I think I'm gonna need one.

Posted by: Boko | October 21, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

The Republican Party, including George Will, is intellectually bankrupt if all they can see from Collin Powell and Barack Obama is their skin color.

Besides the offensive racism, it shows they are blinded to the obvious talents and skills these two men offer.

Powell criticized Republicans for their narrow-minded agenda, and they respond with racial attacks on him. Could he have made his point any clearer than they did for him?

Posted by: AxelDC | October 21, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Out of perverts Boko? The whole Country has just sent us a fresh batch. They should start to trickle in soon.

15 minutes walk and my fingers are frozen, I should have worn gloves.
Eh, how about those Habs! They sure kicked those Florida cats back out of the house.

Posted by: shrieking denizen | October 21, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Humm Brag,
aren't "petrified Neocons" called coprolithes?

Posted by: shrieking denizen | October 21, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Some blacks are racist, just as some whites are racist.

The percentages of racist people of each color is arguable, except that the percentage is NOT ZERO, on either side.
If you think so, you are deluding yourself.

My bet is that the percentage of racist blacks versus the percentage of racist whites is close.

Posted by: Anonymous Number 9 | October 21, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Well, the entire tone of today's Boodle points up that we are still a long ways away from banishing prejudice in our thoughts and in our actions. Yes, we've come a long way from when black folks couldn't use restrooms or water fountains or vote. But there is still an underlying bias in too many folks about those "others". It's probably been mostly overt against the African-Americans because it was so wide-spread and, frankly, skin color was an easy "marker". But much the same thing happened with Asians out west back in the 19th century, with Catholics and Jews for centuries, with "natives" against the Irish earlier in the 19th century, etc. Some of it may have to with tribal traits that are almost genetic in their effect. And about being "told what to think"? Well, that's what education and up-bringing are all about, too. The nub is that people need to be taught HOW to think, and be able to recognize fuzzy reasoning or downright chicanery. The goal of all fundamentalists, whether theological or dictatorial, is the eliminate rational thought and replace it with unquestioned dogma.

Posted by: ebtnut | October 21, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I am a older(AARP member) white woman with a postgraduate degree. I have been with Obama since the start of his campaign. Does this make me an anti-feminist reverse racist? In the (il)logic of some people here, I guess so.

Are the women supporting Palin sexist? No, just not thinking.

Posted by: Silver spring mom | October 21, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I don't think identity politics is intrinsically racist, or sexist, or elitist. People naturally segregate themselves into groups where they are comfortable with others who share common values and experiences. Nothing wrong with that.

I do think however, due to the emotionally charged payload that the term "racism" delivers, it is way too often applied to situations that don't exists, especially by the liberal types that seem to be spring-loaded to toss the term around every chance they get.

Example:
I was at a little kids' soccer game last year when one of the boys, in an attempt to get his teammate's attention and not knowing names yet, blurted out, "Hey, little black boy!" Instantly, the boy's mother as well as other adults got upset and "racist" got thrown at the parents of the unknowing child. Lots of anger, feelings were hurt. Disturbing to say the least.

Try explaining to a 6 year old child that it is perfectly OK to identify other kids by the color of their hair, "Hey, little red-headed boy", but if you identify somebody by the color of their skin, this is known as "racism", which is very, very bad.

Posted by: moderate alien | October 21, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

You got me thinking, Silver Spring Mom, how the women supporting Palin could be construed as sexist, given my insistence that racism and sexism involve an intent to not vote for a person of the other race or gender solely on that basis.

Now, Palin is a vice presidential nominee, so one can't vote solely for her. You'd have to vote for a presidential nominee as well, and they're both men. So, women supporting Palin are sexist if (1) they had intended to stay home and not vote at all, because all the candidates were men and they won't vote for men, but (2) Palin was nominated at the Republican convention, putting a woman in the race, so (3) they now plan to vote the McCain/Palin ticket solely because Palin is a woman. Even this is imperfect sexism since they'll have to vote for a man as well, and the sexist position demands they will not vote for a man, purely because he is a man.

Whew. Lunchtime!

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I agree with someone who posted earlier that African Americans can be predjudiced but not racist.
I think given they way they have been treated in this country you cannot blame us.( Do not be fooled by my last name).

Even today there is still a racial divide in America. We have not gotten to a place where we can judge people by their character and not the color of their skin.

There are many whites who think African Americans are lazy and criminals oh and now terrorist.

Some think all we want to do is live off the welfare check.( Given that we are a minority in that country, that is not true) We are only of value when we play sports for their team and help bring them to the championship. Saying this is the same thing as saying all white people are racist and it is simply not all true.

There may be some of us who fit that stereotype but that does not mean all of us do.However we are often wrongly judged. The focus on African Americans are often the negative not the positive.
Many African Americans work hard, pay taxes and support their families. Many of us are nurses, doctor,teachers, college professors,engineers, judges, lawyers, police chiefs, politicians. Many of us have college degrees and PHD's. Look at a person's character. Not the color of their skin.

However I think a few African Americans may be voting for Obama because he is black. African Americans mostly have aligned themselves with the Democratic party that is the main reason they are supporting Obama. Though they have often taken us for granted.
But the GOP ignores us making no effort this time around to reach out to us. Why? I don't really think the GOP aligns with the issues and values that are important to African Americans. They make no attempt to speak to those issues.

However it behooves me how some African Americans align themselves with the GOP. Like Powell I think many of them have become disenchanted with the direction that party has taken.


Senator Obama's support from African Americans is mostly from Democrats aligning themselves with the party. But Senator Obama cannot win our our votes alone. They do help but it will not win him the White House. If Hillary had won the nomination African American support as well despite the way she and Bill Clinton conducted themselves.

Contrary to some small minded members of the GOP Senator Obama is a President for All Americans not just the wealthy and cooperations.

Despite common belief, we do have the ability to think for ourselves and vote for who they think will be the best candidate. I voted for one Republican in a local race in my state because I believe the Democratic candidate who happens to be an African American is not the best person for the job. So much for thinking we vote for a candidate who is black.

Posted by: bjlopez1130 | October 21, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Howdy moderate alien! That's an interesting story. Almost certainly the kid was just picking a quick visible identifier (you get a lot of responses to Hey brown-eyed kid! or Hey dark-haired kid!) and not trying to call attention to race in particular. Of course, that implies that there weren't many black kids on that soccer field, which is another issue in itself.

I find it fascinating that the Boy seldom if ever identifies anyone by skin color. We never said anything about this (no warnings as you describe) and never really thought about it ourselves. He's aware of skin color, in the same way he's aware of hair color, orthodontia and glasses, but it just doesn't seem to stand out as a particularly important characteristic. I had no idea his science teacher was black until parent-teacher conference. All I knew was that the Boy liked him but he gave hard tests. If he'd identified him by appearance at all he'd probably have mentioned the earrings.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

All this talk of what motivates people in their voting choices reminds me that I am really happy this election seems to be inspiring a very high degree of participation. My family voted over a week ago, via absentee ballot, but early voting just started yesterday here in Florida. I heard that there were people camped out overnight Sunday night so that they could cast the *first* vote at their location. That's kind of dumb but I still appreciate those people's enthusiasm. There were long lines at all the South Florida polling locations yesterday. Hillary and Obama were both in the area over the past two days. We're fired up!! I believe Obama will win Florida and there's a possibility of a landslide nationwide. Of course, there are several other possibilities as well.

Posted by: kbertocci | October 21, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Members of minority groups who have faced discrimination tend to vote for people of their group because they see it as a way to gain influence in a system that works against them. They also see it as a sign that they have made progress. If a native american or latino were a candidate, who doubts that they would have major support among members of their group. That being said, minorities will not vote for members of their group that they feel do not represent their interests. Thus, it's highly unlikely that African Americans would vote for Alan Keyes as dogcatcher. Michael Steele running as lieutenant governor in the last gubernatorial election in Maryland didn't deliver the black vote.

It should also be pointed that blacks have served as mayors and governors in this country. I don't recall whites complaining that they were disadvantaged when these blacks were in office. If anything, black were sometimes disappointed because they felt their interests weren't being adequately served. Why should a black president any different?

Posted by: browneri | October 21, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Last night, while undressing for bed, I caught sight of myself in our mirrored closet doors.

"I'm starting to look like one of those Paleolithic Venus figurines", I lamented aloud.

To which Dear Husband replied,
"Oh, not at all, Dear, you're wrong!

"...You meant Neolithic!"

And that's why I love my ScienceTim.

Posted by: The ScienceSpouse | October 21, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Blacks are the most racist group in America today. The question isn't whether their behavior is racist, the question is, when are we going to stop trying to justify it?

Race-based decision making and racially disparaging comments are components of racism, no matter the color of the person engaging in the behavior.

So far as this nonsense about Obama as the posterchild of post-racialism - how does anyone align that with his close association with Jeremiah Wright and his membership in Trinity church?

It's amazing to see otherwise intelligent people buying into these ridiculous racial solidarity and post-racial idiocies. Is everyone too afraid to admit that black racism is alive and flourishing in America in 2008? Racism may not be the primary reason blacks are voting for Obama, but it's certainly the core reason they wouldn't vote for anyone else. You have only to look at the black voting statistics from the primary to see that.

Posted by: whatnonsense | October 21, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

And that was for SciSpouse, of course. *SIGH*

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Very cute ScienceSpouse.

Posted by: dmd | October 21, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

ScienceSpouse, right on kit! Thanks for sharing a giggle.

Martooni's comment about Republican wingnuts and screws had me ROTFLMAO too.

Posted by: slyness | October 21, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Oh my, HumanityTim. SciSpouse, you made my day. I, too, am beginning to resemble the statue-ladies. Such a good answer.

Posted by: College Parkian | October 21, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Well, since "whatnonsense" has just conclusively proved that Obama is a vicious racist, what are we to make of his choice of a white running mate? I suppose the fact that Obama's biracial would help explain that, yes?

Posted by: Bob S. | October 21, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Do white people vote based on skin color? I don't think that is necessarly true.. so why do people feel that Blacks are voting for him based on his race.. I wouldn't vote for Allen Keys or Clarence Thomas. I was a Hilary supporter..isn't she a white woman

Posted by: Howitsoundz | October 21, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

You guys forget, Barack Obama has moved around in the white world with a lot of comfort. His ailing grandmother is a white woman who brought him up. As he said, she put everything into him. Barack Obama is a half white man, who has a lot of white ideals in him. He's not just an African-American, a son of the civil rights movement, as a Rev. Al or a Jesse Jackson. He's a different breed of American--one who stradles both sides of the world. Comfortable in his own skin as a black mna but comfortable in dealing with white people. Think about it, from 10 years old, his examples, his heroes were two white grandparents. He's comfortable with whites. Look who's heading his campaign, Plouffe and Axelrod. Come on. He's going to please both sides of the aisles, that's why he needs to be president of the United States.

Posted by: Jessara | October 21, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Good news, quarterly IRA statement is in and instead of being down by a third from '07 I've only lost 20%. Our economic nightmare is not over yet, but merely terrible news is better than catastrophic news.

Back to politics- I gather that blacks will vote for Obama because he's black and whites will vote for him out of white guilt. Sounds like the reps have all the info they need to pick more compelling candidates for 2012.

Posted by: frostbitten | October 21, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

First let me make this point, if obama never existed and hillary was the dem choice , she would have easily won 90-92% of the black vote. then the conservatives would have been complaining AA are on the democrats plantation

But this is my biggest point. that this is dream for millions of african-americans possibly coming true. This is a dream of our ancestors who were proud american who loved this country and died for this country coming true. this is the work of fredrick douglas, booker t, debouis, and martin bearing fruit.

This is a day in which most black people never dreamed we might see. I can tell you for sure farrakhan, jesse and sharpton taught this wasnt going happen( and probably still dont).

For many african american especially those over 60. this will be the proudest day in thier lives. The dream that we will live up to the ideals of the words 'all men are created equal" might actually be coming true.

For the majority of african americans voting this is not a vote for the "black guy" but for America and the American Dream.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 21, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Boko, I'm searching for the teddy bear to fax you; I expect its arrival any minute. Hang on as best you can.

Meanwhile, here's an interesting tidbit that just came across my transom. (OK, I really don't have a transom. I speak purely neolithicly.) http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/10/21/texas_email/index.html

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 21, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Whatnonsense - everything you wrote is complete nonsense.

Blacks were overwhelmingly in support of Hillary Clinton early on. There's your PROOF that blacks weren't content on just voting for any black democrat that came along. Obama was an unknown. Hillary was known and her husband was loved by blacks. Blacks did not start supporting Obama until they got to know him, but they were never voting for him to vote AGAINST Hillary. Had Al Sharpton been the black candidate instead of Obama, we'd all be talking about Hillary vs McCain right now.

Posted by: Tired | October 21, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

"this is not a vote for the "black guy" but for America and the American Dream." Well said, Anonymous at 1:47. I think this is true for many whites as well as blacks.

Completely off racism but still with "isms": I have a proposal for all the folks now equating income tax with socialism, and who apparently want to keep the current system (wild favoritism for the rich, more taxes for the middle class and poor). Taxes pay for public services provided by gummint. Let's allocate those services according to the tax burden/tax break allocation. The middle class get full police and fire protection, other emergency services, trash, water, sewer service and utilities, and public education. Rich people get less, and the more tax breaks they have the less government service they get. It's the opposite of socialism - you get what you pay for. Isn't that fair?

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Test

Posted by: bh | October 21, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

My head hurts from trying to follow the "reasoning" of today's trolls. On to simpler things:

1. I project that in a hundred years Rush Limbaugh will be viewed as one of the most odious men in American history. Good Lord that man is hell of awful.

2. GO PHILS ! ! !

Posted by: KPage | October 21, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Thank you Mudge. It was becoming unclear with all these turisms being passed around.

If indeed it is one person, one vote in privacy, all the rest is just filling in the blanks people assume there are to fill in.


and if I may say, Science Tim IS the most romantic fella on the planet.

Posted by: dr | October 21, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Ivansmom,

Just want to suggest that swinging the tax burden back towards to the wealthiest Americans should be considered "good for business" as it was when they whipped the burden over to those making less than 250K a year.

Mayhaps, we should consider the phrase "return to normalcy?"

I am a bit miffed at why our trolls think it is good to send American wealth to the Bahamas, but, hey, what do I know.

Posted by: Dolphin Michael | October 21, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

SCC truisms (desperately hoping I've spelled it right, just shoot me if I am wrong)

Mudge, my SCC card is about worn out. Are we re-issuing or am I going to have to re-apply for for SCC leniency?

Posted by: dr | October 21, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Have tried to keep up with the posts, finally will just burst forth with how very proud I am of the boodle and some of our new posters. This is a historic kit & ka boodle!


Silver Spring Mom, your post is so similar to my first to the boodle some months back, in that I am a white 70 yr. old female independent who, like yourself, picked Obama early on. In my case it was after reading his first book. Back then, during the primaries, I was supposed to support Hilary according to studies/polls, etc. But I just happened to like Obama better. Still do. Have already voted by absentee ballot.

RD, your definition of racisism is my definition of racisism. It's just plain all about keeping someone(s) out. I know, I lived segregation,in the churches, in the old neighborhood, in the new neighborhood, in elementary/jr. high/high school/college, and beyond.

Moving to Fairfax County and our multi-ethnic population is like being on a different planet from Kim's present home, but I understand her neighbor, because I grew up in a world populated with dear people who were as prejudiced as dammitt.

Sometime, when we are altogether for a porching hour, I'll be glad to share what it was like, if anyone is still interested.

Posted by: VintageLady | October 21, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

DR,
I think that Ole Mudgie could give Tim a close race in the romantic contest!

Posted by: Maggie O'D | October 21, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Maggie, agree with both you and DR. These Boodling Men -- all of em -- you know tis a nose-nose-nose-nose horse race. Mudge pulls ahead, then ScTim, then bc, the Rd, the DolpieMike, the GentlemanGWE, then HippieMantooni, next up in the gate is Don/270 (WHERE IS HE!), closely followed by Bob S the dark horse of overnight, then well, who else is there? Oh yes, bikerYellowJacket, and Radiactive Scotty Nuke and BookMan Brag.....Kerric places and tangent used to show, then we have those darling devilishly handsome other Canadians of SD (Frenchi charm), SoCarl the word-ician....and some posters who XY or XX factor remains known to them alone....

Posted by: College Parkian | October 21, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Well, now we have registered comments...

Posted by: Anonymous | October 21, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

TIS HAPPENED, and look at my new boodle handle...what on earth is that?

Jumper, youse pink or blue? Love you, whether you are Y or X.

Dandylion is a contender for sweetie pie Giant guy and tomatoman of the day.

I do not know the X or Y status of many boodlers....two of us commented on this the other day. Odd to not know, really, but interesting and very liberating on some days with some topics.

LTL-CA might be XY....

ERROR was very XY and darnit, sure wish he was here to comment. Imagine what he would say and how he would phrase it.

Lifting a glass to you, dear ErrorBoy. I expect that just as Patrick cleared the ole sod of snakes, heaven is groundhog-marmot-varmint free. About time, I say. Thanks for the advance work.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 21, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Hey that, I am the long-a$$$ post AnyMouse, picking up the last of great blue XY boodlers I missed. Do we ALL come up now as AnyMouse?

And we sign in each time? Wow.
College Parkian
CollegequaParkian

Posted by: Anonymous | October 21, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Or not quite.... (Scottynuke here)

Posted by: Anonymous | October 21, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Indeed. *sniffs with disdain*

Posted by: Anonymous | October 21, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Looks like I'm back to being all good all the time. Or maybe not, have to wait till I get home to see if I registered differently.

Posted by: omnigood | October 21, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

2:49 was me, avec le signature that WaPo claims it would post. Hmmmph.

Curmudgeon

Posted by: Achenblogcurmudgeon | October 21, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

2:49 was me, sans le signature that WaPo claims it would post. Hmmmph.

Curmudgeon

Posted by: Achenblogcurmudgeon | October 21, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Omni, always meant to tell you that in 2005 I was voted

Most Momnipotent for MD.

I believe that Kim and TBG won the VA state crowns, in a tie not yet repeated.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

*peeking around the door* (ScottyYouKnowWho)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Registered and ready to go - a new improved dmd now dmd2 - although cannot guarantee any fewer typos, grammar/spelling errors.

Posted by: dmd2 | October 21, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

OK, am signed in as VintageLady.

Preview sez I'm VintageLady.

Posted by: VintageLady | October 21, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Omni, always meant to tell you that in 2005 I was voted

Most Momnipotent for MD.

I believe that Kim and TBG won the VA state crowns, in a tie not yet repeated.

And, Omni is is one of the Romancin'BoodlerMen. His way with flowers means that he often wins, places, or shows in the
Random Acts of Kindness
Senseless Acts of Beauty
Sweepstakes.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Bwa-ha-ha-ha! Sorry. I couldn't resist. I think I signed in and am still myself. If not, the laugh's on me.

This was a test.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Well, I just have to try this out...

kb

Posted by: kbertocci | October 21, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Hey, it worked--for once my lack of creativity (using the same user name--my actual name--for everything, including email) made my life easier.

Posted by: kbertocci | October 21, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

How on EARTH did I become quaParkian? I think I logged on thusly more than two years ago on campus but sheesh, came back to haunt me.

What is posted is posted.

BTW, DMD wins Eastern Canada Momnipotent Award for 2007, I believe. Yoki and DR tied for Central-Wide Spaces Canada. Just thought, Omni, you would enjoy what we do with your name.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

"I know this is tengential to the main issue of race posted in the kit, but the historian in me must intervene.

Jamestown. 1607. Big 400-year celebrations about it last year. 1607.

1619 was the first House of Burgesses.

Ok...continue discussing race and politics."

Joel was referring to when the first slaves were brought to Jamestown - 1619; not to the founding date.

Posted by: lmthib1 | October 21, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

So this is what "thinning the herd" is all about?

Posted by: VintageLady | October 21, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

How on EARTH did I become quaParkian? I think I logged on thusly more than two years ago on campus but sheesh, came back to haunt me.

What is posted is posted.

BTW, DMD wins Eastern Canada Momnipotent Award for 2007, I believe. Yoki and DR tied for Central-Wide Spaces Canada. Just thought, Omni, you would enjoy what we do with your name.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

2:49 was me, sans le signature that WaPo claims it would post. Hmmmph.

Curmudgeon

Posted by: Achenblogcurmudgeon | October 21, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Well, folks, here I am. I so enjoyed the Mega BPH on Oct. 4th. I'm as concerned as all of you as to the election outcome. Here in New Haven, CT all is well. Hope to be pleasantly surprised state by state and with electoral college votes captured. But, not missing any chance to help the cause between now and Nov. 4th. Can't get complacent.

Haven't had much time to boodle, back boodle or comment. Won't comment, usually, when the "non non's" as union folk such as myself call them not only lurk but get downright wacko. Don't want to join the "insanity" ranks. Doing the best I can to keep up with the kits.

aroc

Posted by: CoraCollins | October 21, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Still testing this here thang...

--Mudge

Posted by: Achenblogcurmudgeon | October 21, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Hi Aroc, nice to see you again. And Mudge, now you have a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy long handle.

AblogMudge? ABMudge?

I will hit submit and then go away for a moment. Sorry on the serial-identical posts.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Joel - Great kit.

And I want to second VintageLady's cheers to the boodle for their contributions.

Y'all were able to better state the thoughts I've been screaming at the computer screen for weeks now. Not here at the boodle, of course, but at other politics related blogs that I sometimes visit.

Posted by: astromom | October 21, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Hey aroc, good to hear from you.

I'm looking forward to seeing if my name posts correctly.

Posted by: slyness | October 21, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

I think it works.

Posted by: Michael Corones | October 21, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

I think I'm going to be Kim1, but if not it's ME, Kim.

Yes, science spouse, that guy is a keeper. That made me laugh.

Posted by: Kim1 | October 21, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Sheesh.

Anybody else have to hit that &^%$# "sign in" button every single time?

Posted by: Achenblogcurmudgeon | October 21, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Hi Michael C. You new?

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

As a confirmed technophobe (I'm sure I'll break it) I'm just pleased as punch that I'm still here, still me, twice. I hope for more.

Where IS Don from I-270?

Back to the Kit. I particularly liked the last Kit comment (and congrats to CowTown and Martooni) about our mysterious times. Absolutely nobody would have predicted our first black presidential candidate was really an arugula-eating, passionless elitist clueless about being a plumber. Funny and true, as all great insight should be.

Footnote: In the spirit of the Kit: I continue to refer to Obama as a black candidate partly because that is to some extent how he has self-identified during the course of the campaign and because in the US, being part African-American apparently makes you irrevocably black. I had mixed-race school friends who were forced by social pressure to choose, not allowed to be white or black or Asian all together but only one, despite their desire otherwise. One thing I've enjoyed about Obama has been his consistent effort to move beyond race. He's proud of his African heritage and his African-American citizenship but also of his white heritage. As I suggested earlier, I think and hope this will be the American trend. More mixed-race population, less focus on race in general.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Weird. My registration worked in the Trail but I had to re-sign-in for this blog.

Posted by: shrieking_denizen | October 21, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Sheesh.

Anybody else have to hit that &^%$# "sign in" button every single time?

Posted by: Achenblogcurmudgeon | October 21, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Methinks the WaPo commentmeisters are still crawling around the servers with little cans of Raid...

:-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

And who oh WHY did Ms. Stewart have to remind me that "For Those About To Rock" came out before I graduated from high school??? *SIGHHHHHHHHHHH*

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/20/AR2008102003285.html

:-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

What a lame UserID I have.

Posted by: 1KatPage | October 21, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Achenblogcurmudgeon, I have to sign in each time. ScottyNuke--love the little cans of Raid comment.

Someday when I have more time I'll play with the cookies thing. Not very computer literate, but I've added it to my list of things to do . . ..

aroc

Posted by: CoraCollins | October 21, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

I do, Curmudgeon, but it may be a small price to pay. Alas, I don't expect the brief extra time for reflection will improve the quality of my posts.

Apologies for the structure of my comment above. The footnote should not be longer than the text. I have been known to break this rule professionally as well.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Thanks to -TBG- for the clever way to mask a 3-letter id!

Now that validation is working, I was prompted for a userid to go with my e-mail address.

Posted by: -dbG- | October 21, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

when you sign make sure to click the remember me on this computer box

Posted by: omnigood | October 21, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

::Anybody else have to hit that &^%$# "sign in" button every single time?::

Yup. Annoying, innit.

Posted by: 1KatPage | October 21, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Somehow I don't think anyone will have any trouble figuring out my new handle.

Posted by: bobsewell | October 21, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

*wondering how bc will adapt his handle to the new convention -- beecee, perhaps?* :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I'm so proud. I've grown an underscore.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | October 21, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

that was weird, cause up till my last post I didn't have to click "sign in". Now I do.

Time to go home and see how it goes

Posted by: omnigood | October 21, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Need to keep signing in has gone.

Posted by: dmd2 | October 21, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Let's see if I have to sign in to post a second time. I shut the computer down and restarted, before I saw the place to sign in so I could comment. That might be necessary. This is above the comment box:

Thanks for signing in. Your washingtonpost.com User ID, slyness, will be displayed with your comment

Posted by: slyness | October 21, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Comment box comes and goes on my screen - as Scotty said I guess they are still cleaning away the bugs - if you refresh enough the box show up.

Posted by: dmd2 | October 21, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Do I exist? Where's Descartes when you need him?

Posted by: -pj- | October 21, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Can any of you Linux and/or Ubuntu users tell me why my Firefox screen at home goes gray every now and then, and freezes?

Posted by: Achenblogcurmudgeon | October 21, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Reposted from earlier:

"Good morning, all.

To be blunt, I'm not surprised with how the campaigns are going, and that both sides are moving to basic emotional campaigning.

I think that fear and hate are fundamentally strong emotions that can be tapped into far more easily to produce strong reactons than the more cognitive emotions of hope and excitement.

If one side needs to try to whip up their base, and to try to raise a tide of emotion to sway undecided people to their side, it's not surprising to me that they would seize on differences and resort to playing on basics in order to find a point of leverage for mainpulation.

This is campaign politics, after all. As with so much in this country, results count. All else is debatable, or something that will be taken up in The Final Accounting later.

bc


Posted by: bc | October 21, 2008 9:28 AM"

And Scottynuke, please remember that the first AC/DC I can remember listening to was during the Carter Administration.

I still miss Bon Scott, gone lo these - what - darn near 30 years?

bc

Posted by: -bc- | October 21, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Can any of you Linux and/or Ubuntu users tell me why my Firefox screen at home goes gray every now and then, and freezes?

Posted by: Achenblogcurmudgeon | October 21, 2008 3:58 PM | Report abuse

On Kit, for a change.

I've always disliked the term "Reverse Racism", as if racism against blacks is the natural order of things. "White Trash" sounds the same to me - as if everyone who isn't white is understood to be trash, without the modifier. That racism still exists is undeniable. Using colorblind terms might be a tiny step forward.

Posted by: ScienceSpouse | October 21, 2008 3:58 PM | Report abuse

It woiked!

Posted by: -pj- | October 21, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Scottynuke, please.

I registered for this ID about a year ago.

I planned ahead, what can I say?

bc

Posted by: -bc- | October 21, 2008 4:01 PM | Report abuse

testing.

Posted by: Braguine | October 21, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Same here, bc... And yep, Bon is surely missed. *SIGH*

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

God loves us so much more than we can imagine through Him that died for all, Jesus Christ.

Hello, friends. I have been under the weather, under the bed, under the pain pills for the last couple of days. I thought I should chime in before you got really worried. I see there is a new procedure for posting? I couldn't use my regular name, they're using something else.
Oh, well, miss a few days and the world turns completely around!

JA
I think your kit is excellent. You put into words my thoughts. And RD, Ivansmom, and Vintage Lady, as well as some of the new folks, very good comments. And as always Martooni, you pull the core of it out.

I'm hoping I can hold out the next few days until my doctor's app.

There are some mean folks in this world, I just hope there are more nicer ones than mean ones.

Hello, Aroc, good to hear from you. Slyness, I'm still here. Take care, folks.

Posted by: cmyth4u | October 21, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Does one have to sign in every blasted time one posts? :o(

Posted by: Braguine | October 21, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

I've become "nellie4" which means WaPo has three other "nellies," all registered before me? I thought I was unique!

Posted by: nellie4 | October 21, 2008 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Sign, write, wait--bleah!

Anyway, this is Brag.

Posted by: Braguine | October 21, 2008 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Off to the afternoon drivefest; then to a class on the rhetoric of ecological economics.

I still have to sign in for each posts, on both Safari and Firefox, from Apply-Dapply systems. Will report on Explorer in MS system on the morrow.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Aha, it all makes sense now. Or at least, maybe it does. Let's see.

Posted by: -bia- | October 21, 2008 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Wow, that is good to know -- clicking on "sign in" for second post did NOT require filling in name rank and serial number again.

Posted by: nellie4 | October 21, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

{* channeling Todd Rundgren *}

"Hello, it's me..."

Posted by: martooni | October 21, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

I am totally unsurprised your advance planning is on the mark, bc. :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

道德经

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

I expect Scotty is right. Bugs. I for one have quit trying to predict what we will have to do before we have to do it.

This calls for Jumper's Law of Prejudice: The more prejudiced a subject is against a group, the more that subject will perceive counter-prejudice directed back at him from members of that group.

In case of glitch, signed, Jumper

In other words, "duh."

Posted by: Jumper1 | October 21, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Hey, omni, McCain held a rally today in your old stomping grounds, Bensalem (Pa.). He's gonna get his hat handed to him in Bucks County, methinks.

Posted by: Achenblogcurmudgeon | October 21, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Hi Cassandra! We missed you.

hugs.

Posted by: Jumper1 | October 21, 2008 4:17 PM | Report abuse

道德經 ?

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

I think I am back online. I have radically changed my handle. Please forgive those of you who will now have to retrain fingers....

This is Dolphin Michael w/ other personna.

Posted by: russianthistle | October 21, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Gesundheit, tao... :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Cassandra, I'm so relieved to hear from you, and so sorry you are unwell. If you can't really hold out, please don't. Take care of yourself. You are our good spirit.

CP, thank you for that nomination. I think that this should be one of the rare awards could be proudly shared by both nominees (I've met Kerric, and dr has a done a great great job).

I was laughing at CP's shout-out to our Boodle-guys; that's just how I feel. And the Error tribute brought tears to my eyes.

Cassandra, the MBPH convinced me that there are more nice people in the world than mean, you just have to find them. They tend to go quietly and nicely about their business while the mean shout! and rant! and generally make a big commotion.

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

I know a guy named Phalanxausage because he was sick of having his handles already used by others. "By golly, no one has used THIS one."

Posted by: Jumper1 | October 21, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

沒有明確的原始作者但具有作為公共財產的信息

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Careful, tao, we don't want the Wirty Dird Filter to get any ideas... :-)

And yes!!!! Cassandra's still with us!!! *HUGSSSSS*

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

[编辑] 德语 = Gesundheit

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Yay, Cassandra, Yoki, and everyone else is here! Those little, bracketing hyphens look kinda cute!

For once, I hope Tucker Carlson is right. He's written that the Republicans know it's over, the Democrats are afraid to believe it.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-10-21/the-pessimists-party/

Posted by: -dbG- | October 21, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

I just had to sign in -- didn't have to earlier, but I got for myself a new gmail account and registered under that (with a new pw, too, I think). Whatever.

What I find a bit amazing is the sense of entitlement that the trolls have. *raspberries*

Hope Obama's grandmother can hold on for two more weeks -- at least. She must be so proud.

Gotta go wade through too many documents to count. Any sympathy from you, Ivansmom? We gotta stick together, you know.

Posted by: firsttimeblogger | October 21, 2008 4:31 PM | Report abuse

タンブル・ウィード = Salsola (Russian Thistle, Tumbleweed)

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

If someone is forced to add a number after their preferred name I won't mind if they use 999 as long as they promise to adopt me. The entire 999 family is gone without leaving a forwarding address and I am left bereft. Even RealPatriot® has deserted me.

Oh well, there's always someone who's worse off. I could've been a shrubber.

Posted by: Boko999 | October 21, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

We go through all this and don't get italics? What about our avatars?!

I don't know about your circumstances, Cassandra, but Orudis is good for arthritis, aching bones, sprains, torn ligaments. Its only drawback is no alcohol, highly not recommended. I suspect that's no problem for you. Its plus side is zero mental effects, no depressant sluggishness will be felt at all.

Posted by: Jumper1 | October 21, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Dolphin Michael--Vi, chto, Russkii?

I gotta get used to clicking da clickah. Now will have to learn new names.
Do we need to call Mudge Achenblogmudge? Makes me want to click my heels. Seems like registration ran off the ranters.

Brag

Posted by: Braguine | October 21, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Testing.

I have added 13 to my handle.

Posted by: Moose13 | October 21, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I think the little dashes are quite flattering.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | October 21, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

-dbG-, you look really nice in those hyphens.

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

What a giant freakin' pain in the arse this is. Sigh...

Posted by: JoelAchenbach1 | October 21, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Thank goodness you said that, Yoki. For a moment I was afraid someone (bc?) was going to ask, "Do these hyphens make me look fatter?"

It's one of those question we guys have learned is a no-win question unless handled VERY carefully.

Posted by: Achenblogcurmudgeon | October 21, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

"only natural to look out for your own when you are outnumbered"

White folks are an increasingly small percentage of the world population and we are also becoming increasingly outnumbered in our own countries. We are told that our displacement is a wonderful thing to be celebrated. Any objections to this makes you some kind of hatemonger. Whites who care about other whites and the future of whites in this country as our percentage dwindles are also called hatemongers. Why is it that no other people in nations throughout the world are expected to openly embrace their own displacement? Would this be expected of Africans in Africa? Jews in Israel? Imagine someone were to basically state that Africa is a boring, racist and unenlightend place because there are not enough non blacks. What if someone said that jews have to open up the borders to everyone in the world and those who objected to the nation becoming less jewish were evil haters and bigots? This is exactly what is said about white folks in white western nations.
Reverse discrimnation goes much deeper than what is happening in this election. I would like white folks to seriously think about my words instead of attacking my words.

Posted by: Christine8 | October 21, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

RD_Padouk,

Your underscore is very dignified.

Posted by: Moose13 | October 21, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

How comes Michael Corones gets to be Michael Corones and not, like, MichaelCorones1 or whatever. I'm complaining. [To Michael Corones.]

Posted by: JoelAchenbach1 | October 21, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

SCC: Jeez. Should be "Do these hyphens make me look fat?"

Posted by: Achenblogcurmudgeon | October 21, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Cassandra, it is good to hear from you. If you can't make it until your doctor appointment, let them know.

All y'all decorated with underscores, hyphens and extra numbers are very cute. Howdy Moose! Hey, tao, I really like the look of your posts though I have no idea what you're saying. Dolphin Michael, I have to wrench my mental image of you away from the ocean? Okay, I'll try.

Plenty of sympathy here, firsttimeblogger. I'm slogging through lots of pages now in a case, and I just saw we got one in downstairs that's even longer. It is just lurking there, waiting. Right now I'm going through one of those briefs which causes me, every now and then, to leap up and shout in disgust. Yesterday I reached the point where I just turned off the computer and went home. I swear an intern wrote this and no real attorney looked at the legal arguments. Just think folks, your tax dollars at work. Okay, that's metaphorical for all but the Okies, but I'm sure there are people being paid by your state to write stuff just as bad.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Brag, sorry. Weed is fine. Tao already debunked my name. Of course, our wingnut friends always attack, which is funny.

http://greenmuseum.org/content/work_index/img_id-83__prev_size-0__artist_id-3__work_id-7.html

I hope this goes through the censors... I brought my friend Kati her first tumbleweed back in '74 ....

Posted by: russianthistle | October 21, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

World Racial Demographics

8% White

92% Non-White

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_world's_racial_demographics

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Thank you, RD. Your underscore has a kind of Hollywood glamour!

Yoki, your name needs no embellishment.

-tao-, such elegance!

Now where's -TBG-, who started this all?

Posted by: -dbG- | October 21, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

That's slightly better.

Posted by: -JoelAchenbach- | October 21, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Mudge - What version of Firefox are you using? If its not the latest version, try updating or getting the new version. Other than that, I'm at a loss. Is there a particular page you are viewing when this happens? Maybe you need a plug-in and Firefox hangs up looking for it?

Posted by: astromom | October 21, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Even Joel had to sign in with a new user ID. HAHAHAHAHA.

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Hey Moose! I don't have to use the 13, I know you you are. How is your mother in law?

Posted by: slyness | October 21, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, Christine8. I'm seriously considering your argument but I just don't have any sympathy for it, nor do I find it particularly interesting. Even granting your premises, as a white person, I'm not worried that we're an increasingly small percentage of the population in the world and "our own" countries.

Realistically people with white skin color have been a global minority for a long time. I don't see why that is alarming.

I'm not sure why any white people among us feel entitled to call any country "ours". In the US, Native Americans were here first. Spaniards and Mexicans settled the West long before white people, and African Americans came very quickly to the East Coast and South with whites. For a long time there were more white people living here, but I don't see why that makes the country "ours". I prefer the more expansive and inclusive ours. That means that there are fewer people with skin the color of mine. I just don't see why that's a problem.

Posted by: Ivansmom | October 21, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

The darn thing wouldn't accept the usual sign-in address even if it displayed the usual Welcome ShriekingDenizen on top of the page on the home 'puter. Had to cook up a new one. sheesh

Posted by: shrieking_denizen1 | October 21, 2008 5:14 PM | Report abuse

I hear you, Ivansmom. I've been practicing law (until I get it right -- beat ya!) for 27 years, and it's not often that I see what I consider a good piece of writing. Whether it's a contract or a pleading, merely good writers are tremendously hard to find. My dad was a patent lawyer for 50 years, and he told me often that he was astonished how many lawyers didn't know or understand Civil Procedure. I believe it. He also told me: "If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If the law is on your side, argue the law. If neither the facts nor the law is on your side, attack the other lawyer." Pretty funny, in a painful kinda way.

It's also the lack of simple, honest civility, especially in litigation, which is beyond annoying and very much beyond common sense. I'm now of an age where I can pretty much ignore it all, but unfortunately, I do still confront, and need to confront it from time to time.

Gonna get a brand new chair tomorrow -- with (yum, yum) beaucoup lumbar support, which my aching back so desperately needs. That's gonna change my world considerably.

CP, I'm planning another sojourn to IKEA on Sunday morning with a friend. I plan to load up on Kalles Kaviar, and can hardly wait. I promise to wave.

As for the upcoming game between the Redskins and the Lions, I think I'm gonna root for the Redskins, as I would like the hapless Lions to have the perfect season they deserve. . . . Maybe *then* something good will happen to them.

cya for now.

Posted by: firsttimeblogger | October 21, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

I also heartily agree with you Ivansmom in regard to your response to Christine8.

Just so you know. . . .

Posted by: firsttimeblogger | October 21, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

This has certainly choked down the noise on the boodle.

Posted by: russianthistle | October 21, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

If you read any history at all you might start to understand why few have any real concern about "the future of whites" in this country ... or anywhere else, for that matter. Hel l, I'm white and *I'm* not even worried about "the future of whites."

And if in five hundred years we all end up being closer, color-wise, maybe that's what God wants.

Posted by: 1KatPage | October 21, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Why do I feel like I've been shot with a dart and collared? And what's this on my ear?

Yikes, a lot of people who think they can redefine racism to suit their biases here.

I suggest they all look up "institutional racism."

There is no racism in this election in the sense that:

1) Obama is not allowed to run because he's part black.
2) There is not a concerted policy to block blacks, women, or any other minorities from voting.
3) You are NOT automatically barred by law from entering any place because you're a specific minority-- i.e. colored.

We have come a long way. No thanks to the present Republican party (1960-2008), manned by the same people who were against desegregation and a lot of other things that broadened opportunity for all and in time took our economy to new heights.

As somebody born in the post 60's society,
I wouldn't vote for anybody who has been around long enough to block civil rights legislation.

I most certainly won't vote for any party that feeds economic inequality like the Republicans have done, since that in turn always feeds social inequality. I can name many points in which I disagree with the current party leadership, but in which I might agree with a moderate republican.

Obama was my second choice when my first choice dropped out. I never considered Hillary even though I'm more "like her." But I do appreciate that I had the chance to consider her as a candidate. We have come a long way.

In short, there is no such thing as reverse racism or sexism in this election.

There IS anti-racism, in terms that your voting opportunity is increasingly less limited by race, ethnicity, or class. It is becoming more of a meritocracy.

Except for the media pundits, who love to spew out the same old racism, sexism, etc.

And for everybody who complains about Hillary or Palin being treated in a sexist manner, remember McCain was against legislation that would make it easier for women to sue for sexual harrassment.

Remember this. He could get a sex change tomorrow and I still wouldn't believe he was truly looking out for the interests of Americans that are not male nor white.

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | October 21, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Whites have not been in the position we are currently in demographically in societies we built and are native to(European nations)All estimates say that in the united states we will be a minority by the year 2050. We are also very quickly headed down the same path in Europe. And in many European countries even talking about these things can get you slapped with a hate speech charge which comes with prison time. This is nuts.

White folks are the only people today who believe there is something morally wrong with being concerned about their own, first and foremost. They are the only people who believe it is some kind of evil to be concerned with their own interests and the preservation of their peoples and cultures. This is very sad. You don't see this thinking with others. And you shouldn't. This thinking is demanded of whites. We are held to very different standards than others. We are treated differently than others in this area. Does this not qualify as discrimination?

Posted by: Christine8 | October 21, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

To the person who said we might all end up closer "color wise," I am taking it you don't value human diversity?

Posted by: Christine8 | October 21, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

It's important ONLY if you think that people ought to be subjected to discriminatry treatment based on their skin color.

In South Africa apartheid split apart families as "colored" and "white". I've met "White" South Africans and they would be considered "black" here.

Nobody would doubt I am white; but I have solid evidence favoring some Moorish (i.e. black) ancestors from the conquest of Spain. A good percentage of Americans have some African or Native American whether they know it or not. What we call "white" is probably already pretty different than "white" was 1000 years ago.

Anybody who thinks race is either/or, really needs serious schooling in genetics.

I'm proud to say my family includes people who have solid Native American, Irish, African, British, and other heritages.

That's what I call diversity. If I chose to vote so that my biracial niece will not face the same institutional barriers that my blond niece will not, that is truly loving and looking after my own kind.

I can't do anything about the people who look at the two girls and see them as being one of "us" and one of "them"-- except to tell them, that they're bloody idiots.

They will share the same family cultural heritage. And that, as far as I am concerned, is what really makes somebody "Irish" or what not, not DNA.

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | October 21, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

GEOGRAPHIC REGION POPULATION PERCENT OF WORLD

Asia 3,518,000,000 56.4%
Africa 839,000,000 13.5%
Europe (including former Soviet Union) 803,000,000 12.9%
Latin America 439,000,000 8.7%
North America (U.S. and Canada) 320,000,000 5.1%
Near East 179,000,000 2.9%
Oceania (Pacific Islands) 32,000,000 .5%
Christine8's - too few to count.

Source: Global Population Profile: 2002, U.S. Census Bureau 2004

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Christine,

I don't understand what you mean by human diversity. Do you think that we shouldn't inter-marry? Just curious. Like Obama, I grew up in Hawaii. Hawaii was and still is quite a melting pot. Yet, with all the melting going on, we still had cultural diversity.

What is your concern here with diversity?

Posted by: russianthistle | October 21, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Will no one speak up for us poor pink people?

Posted by: Boko999 | October 21, 2008 6:08 PM | Report abuse

"My" folks could be expressed as a *very* crowded Venn diagram, with circles:

Female, Liberal, American, Straight, Married, Parent, Jewish, Agnostic, Scots, Irish, English, Lithuanian, Bessarabian, Californian, Nerd, Programmer, NASA Geek, Musical, and most importantly, HUMAN.

Of course I value diversity; you will find nobody else just like me in the world. I am so much more than "White".

I might share skin color with Christina8, but I suspect not much else.

Posted by: ScienceSpouse | October 21, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Will no one speak up for us poor pink people?

Posted by: Boko999 | October 21, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Go out for the afternoon and come back to A Brave New World. I guess I'll try out my new name, but really, I want my old name back!

Cassandra, when my sainted Irish grandmother told someone about a friend of hers who was so sick that she had to take to her bed, she would say, "She's so sick, she's in bed with the doctor."

Ah the Irish, the gift of the language.

Posted by: rickoshea0 | October 21, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

"My" folks could be expressed as a *very* crowded Venn diagram. A few of the intersecting sets:

Female, Liberal, American, Straight, Married, Parent, Jewish, Agnostic, Scots, Irish, English, Lithuanian, Bessarabian, Californian, Nerd, Programmer, NASA Geek, Musical, and most importantly, HUMAN.

Of course I value diversity; I'd be pretty lonely if I associated only with folks just like me.

I might share skin color with Christine8, but I suspect not much else.

Posted by: ScienceSpouse | October 21, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Go out for the afternoon and come back to A Brave New World. I guess I'll try out my new name, but really, I want my old name back!

Cassandra, when my sainted Irish grandmother told someone about a friend of hers who was so sick that she had to take to her bed, she would say, "She's so sick, she's in bed with the doctor."

Ah the Irish, the gift of the turning of a phrase.

Posted by: rickoshea0 | October 21, 2008 6:16 PM | Report abuse

官話 is the most common native language in the world - and is from the largest US trading partner and holder of most US debt. The, 北方话, simplied form is a good second language for the English speaking world.

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Sorry for the double post. I'll do better. I even 'previewed' this time.

Forgot to sign, "Maggie O'D

Posted by: rickoshea0 | October 21, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Ivansmom, love your 5:12

Posted by: dmd2 | October 21, 2008 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Christine8, your concern about white minority status just doesn't ring true for me. What precisely are "we" going to lose? Yes, I can, hypothetically, in the spirit of science fiction, imagine a bizarro-world future in which "white people" are forced to experience the downside of Jim Crow and all the rest. But do you think that's actually inevitable, or even likely? And in this future, who would "white people" be? I, for instance, am "culturally white" but I know I have slivers of other things, and the "white" part is an ethnic salad all by itself. As Wilbrod points out, what used to be called "race mixing" is getting even more frequent. And who is it that we have to be afraid of? The descendants of African-American slaves? The Chinese? What values exactly are being threatened, and by whom? Is it European culture? But that has already been given to the world. Is it conservative Christianity? The center of gravity for that, whether Catholic or Protestant, seems to be in Africa these days already. Population trends all by themselves just don't carry the weight of fright that you are looking to evoke.

Posted by: woofin | October 21, 2008 6:33 PM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYzQspdn4J0&feature=related

For Boko and the pink people.

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Unless someone has done a very exhaustive geneology chart, how would they know how many ethnicities they carry. Don't they have that DNA test where you can chart where your ancestors came from and don't most people's eventually lead back to Africa anyway? I may be totally wrong here, it's been a long day. Another great Kit today Joel. Great responses from the regulars and some newbies.

Posted by: badsneakers | October 21, 2008 6:52 PM | Report abuse

*checking my ability to access the Brave New World of Commenting from home*

christine8, let's just say any society's ability to adapt to changing conditions (dare I say, evolve?) is a prerequisite to survival. Unfortunately, it sounds like you're afraid of adapting. *shrug*

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 21, 2008 6:54 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps Christine8 fears the 黄祸 also 英語.

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 6:54 PM | Report abuse

I love the Boodle-people, XX and XY. You are doing good work.

-tao- that rocks.

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Lucy of Olduvai Gorge:

Genetic Eve from who we all originated lived in East Africa around the rift valley 3.2million years old according to Dr M & A Leakey; Argon Dating an improvement from Carbon Dating. It's no coincidence that the oldest fossils are found in Africa.

http://www.nok-benin.co.uk/history_africa.htm

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 6:59 PM | Report abuse

On kit and a tune cootie, to boot...

(excerpt from Depeche Mode's "People Are People")

So we're different colours
And we're different creeds
And different people
Have different needs
It's obvious you hate me
Though I've done nothing wrong
I've never even met you
So what could I have done
I can't understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully...

Peace out :-)

Posted by: martooni | October 21, 2008 7:13 PM | Report abuse

"...if it was Adam and Eve, then they were African."

Ibid at 6:59

Our common ancestors were black (the zinj).

Woofin makes good points.

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 7:18 PM | Report abuse

Wow, how many Alohas can there be on this site? I couldn't register under my Boodle handle so I had to get a new one. So, this is me, Aloha.

I did the National Geographic DNA project and sent in my cells to have my genetic profile of where my ancestors came from. Turns out, my bloodline originates in Africa, where all of Humankind comes from. The branch of human beings that eventually led to my existence migrated through to Eastern Asia. So, yeah, we're all black by genetic definition.

Posted by: MiddleofthePacific | October 21, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Martooni - that song was perfect for this discussion.

Posted by: MiddleofthePacific | October 21, 2008 7:29 PM | Report abuse

-Tao-, you new? LOVE your handle.

The hyphens read as seraphs to me, so I think of these handles as bracketed by the better angels of our natures.

RussianThistle is Dolphin Michael, right?

Rickoshea is MaggieO'D?

Woofin, hello to you.

About Christine: hey Christine, I have to admit never feeling whiteness, really. I do, however, feel ethnicity and religious identity.

I am trying to understand what whiteness might mean.

I do think that the Greco-Judeo-Christian-via-PaxRoma heritage is very important. I want to see those ideas, particularly the

1) Greek vision of democracy and the
2) Roman, read PRACTICAL vision of a republic and the
3) enlightenment

remain at the fore of culture.

But, I want to look at other strands of knowing also.

So, trying to see the best in what you post. Think the "whiteness" stumbling block smacks of an -ism that does not include me. Did you mean whiteness as a shortcut for western civ?

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Martooni, great song my 7 year old sings that frequently around our house.

Woofin - great post it is what I would have like to the the words to say earlier, but lacked the ability and got called away to help with homework so could not even enter an inferior post.

Posted by: dmd2 | October 21, 2008 7:52 PM | Report abuse

I was in the middle of composing a long treatise in response to Christine8, but I had to interrupt it for real life, and now it seems that the boodle has the topic pretty well covered. Let's see...I guess what I've got that's new is a linguistic analogy to illustrate the you-don't-have-to-be-so-afraid point.

Authorities in France are known for regularly panicking about the state of the French language -- it's borrowing too many words from English, becoming corrupted with new coinages, etc. So they have their Academie Francaise, and they pass laws trying to regulate language use, and everyone ignores them. I find the process amusing, because the French language is just fine. It's a major world language, spoken by lots of people in lots of countries, with a large and respected literature, and it's not disappearing any time soon. Yes, it's changing, because the only time languages don't change is when they're extinct.

In contrast, a lot of the world's languages are endangered, to the point that at least half are likely to disappear by the end of the century. If you're an indigenous Peruvian (just to choose a case I know) who speaks a language with 25 living native speakers, all bilingual in Spanish and all over the age of 50, I'm likely to be much more sympathetic to your efforts to preserve your language. I'm still not going to think you should pass laws regulating who should speak which language how and when -- those just don't work, unless of course you're much more oppressive than an endangered language community is likely to have the power to be. But bilingual education programs, endangered-language radio stations, go for it, you've got my support and admiration.

In case it's not clear, American culture is France here, not indigenous Peru. We're okay, just changing some, like any living community. The things that I value about this country and its culture -- democracy, freedom of expression, value placed on individual effort and merit, and, yes, a (more or less) welcoming stance to newcomers, just to name a few -- are not put in danger by the inclusion of people of varied appearance and national background.

(BTW, the English language isn't endangered either, not even in Texas or California or Florida. In case you were wondering. But that's a whole nother post, and this ended up being a whole long treatise anyway.)

Posted by: -bia- | October 21, 2008 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Bia! You rock!!

Maggie O'D

Posted by: rickoshea0 | October 21, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Hello! Do I look dashing?

Posted by: -TBG- | October 21, 2008 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Howdy yaw
all these new faces are cracking me up

Posted by: greenwithenvy | October 21, 2008 8:23 PM | Report abuse

Yes, my dear TBG, but wouldn't you look even more dashing in a dashiki?

(said in the spirit of genetic inheritance and multi-culturalism. I'm all for it!)

Posted by: rickoshea0 | October 21, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

-TBG-, you look dashing and sharp! My goodness, I think you are more beautiful now than you have ever been.

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 8:40 PM | Report abuse

On Comet on Dasher

The dash is the paddle portion of a butter churn

Dash it all (soft damming)

Dahiell Hammet, nuff said

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 8:42 PM | Report abuse

CP.. I must say the qua looks good on you!

Posted by: -TBG- | October 21, 2008 8:52 PM | Report abuse

Tao is ancient, not new, CquaP.

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Tao, do we already know you? In other words, are you a rose by any other name?

CquaP sounds interesting, nearly rhymes with Massapequa.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Checking to see if I get to stay me. Which would be good, because if I have to get another one, I'd just get lost in thought and it would end up something like MentalGPSNeeded or SendASearchParty.

Posted by: LostInThought | October 21, 2008 8:57 PM | Report abuse

CP, or may I call you C...

Hope you don't mind me switching back to my general blog tag. I just don't want it to change anything between us.

Posted by: russianthistle | October 21, 2008 8:58 PM | Report abuse

I am still CP, DolphinM/RussianT, you have very visual handles. I did, however think that RussianT was Brag.

Russian T makes me think of delectable small cookies called
Russian Tea Cakes AKA
Mexican Wedding Cakes AKA
Snowballs

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 9:02 PM | Report abuse

I cannot tell you how much this bites. frostbitten1 just looks so wrong, and I feel stupid for not waiting to see the TBG solution. Dashes are so much more sophisticated than some needlessly appended digit.

Great comment bia.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | October 21, 2008 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Recipe link for Russian Thistle-tea cakes
http://www.joyofbaking.com/Mexican%20Wedding%20Cakes.html

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 9:05 PM | Report abuse

Hey... is a bea c here? I'm going to the Obama rally tomorrow morning in Richmond. Anyone else here planning to be there?

Posted by: -TBG- | October 21, 2008 9:06 PM | Report abuse

CP,
Tumbleweed ... I used to collect them when I would drive across country. Did you see the stuff that a friend did with Russian Thistle? I posted a link to her work.
I have been weed for years on the internets.

I actually appreciate going back to my major handle.

RT

Posted by: russianthistle | October 21, 2008 9:08 PM | Report abuse

In other news, gardening people may be interested in knowing that tall snapdragons are making a come-back. A Canadian gardener clued me in on these: up to 2 ft tall with open faces!

Hi to LiT -- kudos to those who kept their love handles; bravo to the rest of us for not skipping too many beats.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Just saw them, RT, amazing. Reminds me of Andrew Goldsworthy and his environmental installations:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/andygoldsworthy/pool/

And, now Tumblin Tumbleweeds is a playin in my ear's mind.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 9:17 PM | Report abuse

RT''s theme song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UiSMyyj-Ac

Sons of the Pioneers!

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 9:19 PM | Report abuse

-TBG-, how's the sis tonight? I hope all is well.

Posted by: slyness | October 21, 2008 9:23 PM | Report abuse

http://www.graphpaper.com/2006/07-05_i-am-large-i-contain-multitudes

In which half-baked connections are made between American poetry and Internet social networking.

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

"The TBG solution." I like that, frosti. I just hope the TBG solution is always used for good.

Posted by: -TBG- | October 21, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

The block I live on is about 75% Hispanic, 15% African American a small contingent of Caucasian and Asian. They are all my Neighbors. The bestest. Also, this is one of the nicest neighborhoods I've ever lived in. What's funny to me is I feel more at home here than any all Caucasian neighborhood I've ever lived before.

Another funny: Once at a prty a guy was talking about another guy name Tom. I knew a Tom and so asked Tom who. He pointed across the room and said that African American dude over there. I said, he ain't no African American. You and I are more African American than he.

Thing is, Tom wasn't American at all. He was Ethopian here in the States on a student Visa.

They all got my point once I explained it.

As to the answer to the question that gets men in trouble. once a women I was dating asked:

"Does this make my butt look fat?"

I said "Yes, ass in an good way."

She looked at me puzzled.


Posted by: omnigood | October 21, 2008 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Testing...
http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2360

Posted by: DNA_Girl | October 21, 2008 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Sister's doing great, slyness. Thanks! We're watching Dancing with the Stars (I think) with the sound off. Makes absolutely no sense at all. It's hilarious, actually.

Who's -tao-? Did I miss something? Do I have to figure it out? Yikes.

Posted by: -TBG- | October 21, 2008 9:31 PM | Report abuse

I explained: if she had said ass i would have said butt. she said I was weird but gave me a kiss any way.

Oh, and SCC on party

And I'm still signing in. clicking on that is faster than refresh, and the comment box goes away after like two seconds after a refresh anyway.

Oh, and I did have a different log in at home, but have no idea what that password was, so just used the same login I had at work

Any one who doesn't like their new 'improved' handles can always register with a different e-mail address. I have four available to myself, but am OK with omnigood for now.

Posted by: omnigood | October 21, 2008 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Afore you know it there will be folks with funny sounding names working for the guvmint.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | October 21, 2008 9:37 PM | Report abuse

I just hit "sign in" and in two secs the box is here willing and waiting. Not a biggie.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | October 21, 2008 9:38 PM | Report abuse

Hey, did anybody else catch Abigail Trafford's column today? Interesting point of view:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/17/AR2008101702596.html

Sometimes I feel that way, and I'm 17 years younger than John McCain.

Posted by: slyness | October 21, 2008 9:41 PM | Report abuse

This universe is so dashing. Far out.
http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=902

Posted by: DNA_Girl | October 21, 2008 9:41 PM | Report abuse

I'm thrilled to have a theme song!!! Could it be a first for the boodle?

CP, if you have to get it out of your head, try listening to Cool Water by Riders in the Sky.

Posted by: russianthistle | October 21, 2008 9:42 PM | Report abuse

Shifting to another tune cootie, this one by Handel, G.F.:

Lord God Om=NIP=o=tent reign-eth.

I bet ivansmom has sung this and may get my odd syllables here. I am an alto. Sang this in high school, as did most of us, former choir-peeps.

Lord Boodl'r Om-NI-good reign-eth. (slide quickly over boodler)

If we work really hard, we can each have a boodle-handle tunie. Frosti is, of course, sung in a Burl Ives' way.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

Hello All!

Slyness, MIL is at home and feeling good. Thanks for asking! I was on my way out the door to catch the bus when you asked.

FTB-I will wave this weekend too. I'm even closer to Ikea than CP.

Off to get ready for work tomorrow. G'night!

Posted by: Moose13 | October 21, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

Hey, NoVa folks, check out fivethirtyeight.com. We are getting top billing.

Yesterday two unbelievably charming young ladies came to my door canvassing for Obama. If I were a bad person I would have pretended I needed convincing.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | October 21, 2008 9:45 PM | Report abuse

Oh sure, I spend the last hours, eating dinner, discussing deep things (Life balance, health and metaphysics and world peace)and then struggle to come up with a new handle that is still me, I finally get here to find TBG has come up with an elegant and simple solution.

The login id for my usual sign in was utter crap. It left me feeling like a bad 70's tune. drdr1 gave me a tune cootie I am still trying to get rid of and left me feeling like I should be handing out chicken soup.

TBG, lovely solution. Thank you for saving me from myself.

Posted by: --dr-- | October 21, 2008 9:45 PM | Report abuse

For unto us,
A om'ni's given;
Unto us, a child...

Since I keep getting bumped out, I just now ended up on the home page, and DC has a six-day show-jumping competition starting. I am so so overcome with envy that lots of you live there. Love horses, love skill, love all the discipline. If I hadn't just been there, I'd be there now.

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Dr! You have two tune cooties:

Do run run AND anything by
Duran x two.

I am chuckling and the progeny are looking at me not as Momnipotent but as mom-is-weird!

I shall embrace this; if they only knew.

RT -- a new tradition is born: tunes for handles.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Hi, it's me, mostlylurking, aka seasea (think the sea, Seattle, C). Good Kit, Joel. CowTown and Martooni rock.

Posted by: seasea | October 21, 2008 9:50 PM | Report abuse

For Nate Silver groupies who missed it live, he was on Keith Olberman tonight and the rerun starts in about 20 minutes.

In all about me news we have a new cat. I lured a skinny little forest kitten in before she could go completely feral or get eaten. She's two pounds of crazy and Mr. F has named her Katsu, which Aloha might find amusing. After all her vet visits she'll be moving down to St. Paul to keep frostcat #2 company. The tile search continues. The distributions of taste and budget should cross somewhere.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | October 21, 2008 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Oh sure, you cool kids can have your hip cool dashes, but you can't beat the underscore for classic elegance. Besides, now my handle looks like a C++ variable.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | October 21, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

But, Yoki, aren't you right by Spruce Meadows?

Posted by: seasea | October 21, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

SeaSea -- Sea of Love or

the theme to Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, the sitcom version

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 9:56 PM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkTT-hfZsh4

For the love of God, must I sign in every time? So annoying.

Posted by: seasea | October 21, 2008 9:57 PM | Report abuse

CP, and here I was stuck on 'doctor, doctor give me the news, I got a bad case of loving you,' you know the rest. I sure don't, just that irritating bit.

If you have to have a signature song, it really should be something you can at least hum more than just a bar of.

Da do run run, da do run run.

Posted by: --dr-- | October 21, 2008 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Yes. What's your point, seasea?

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 10:00 PM | Report abuse

RD-that fivethirtyeight piece on Obama GOTV efforts in Fairfax was super. After just spending a year in a position where recruiting and motivating volunteers was a major part of the job I am completely awestruck by the dedication of the full time unpaid staffers.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | October 21, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

No RDP, you look very debonair. Gentleman like. You could give Mr. Darcy a run for his money with that handle.

Posted by: --dr-- | October 21, 2008 10:05 PM | Report abuse

seasea --

After you have signed in once, you just have to click on "sign in" and it will recognize you and pop up the comments box. Kind of neat.

Posted by: nellie4 | October 21, 2008 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Just that I would love to go to Spruce Meadows someday and see the fabulous horses in competition. The article says the DC show is the last major show in a metro area - I didn't realize the National Horse Show (held in NYC at Madison Square Garden) had moved to Florida.

Hmmm, now there's an idea - time a BPH with the horse show...

Posted by: seasea | October 21, 2008 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Dear Yoki, always Yoki,

You reminded me of the horse show this week. My younger dot rode saddleseat for a couple of years until she won every blue ribbon in her class and couldn't compete again until she had her own horse.

She couldn't compete again.

I'll be missing it.

Posted by: rickoshea0 | October 21, 2008 10:08 PM | Report abuse

Ok, I lied. I'm back.

Mr. Moose just brought home a deer. Not for a pet, for food. This has never happened before.

Posted by: Moose13 | October 21, 2008 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Did I kill the Boodle?

Posted by: Moose13 | October 21, 2008 10:22 PM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kd8xp86reY

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 10:24 PM | Report abuse

No, Moose. Just stunned. Did he hit it on Rt. One? Could it be the bad deer that nearly crashed into me? Did he buy it at IKEA?

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Of course not, Moose!

seasea, just tell me when you want to come up for the Masters. We have tons of room, comfortable guest suite, and Boodlers one and all are welcome. I also get free tickets to Spruce Meadows since my firm is a sort of A-list member in this much restricted society :)

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 10:26 PM | Report abuse

Me too.

No Ikea deer, no Rt. One deer.

A friend of his is a hunter. Apparently, he already has a freezer full of deer, so he gave this one to Mr. Moose. I think it's a Calvert County deer.

Now I have to buy a large freezer.

Posted by: Moose13 | October 21, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Oh my, Moose. I hope it's field-dressed already and all you have to do is put it in the freezer.

I was home by myself last Saturday when the doorbell rang. Not expecting anyone or recognizing the person when I peeped, I didn't open the door. The person put a Republican hanger on the knob, which I promptly tore up and threw away. Maybe I should have answered it, and stated my opinion.

Posted by: slyness | October 21, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Well, I'll just say the poor thing is halfway there.

Mr. Moose has a date with a butcher tomorrow.

Posted by: Moose13 | October 21, 2008 10:31 PM | Report abuse

A phrase rife with possibility:

"Republican hanger on the knob"

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse

Black Racial solidarity is good eh?

Excellent.

White solidarity is good too! Glad we see eye to eye...

www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Posted by: WeAreMany | October 21, 2008 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Poor Jon Stewart looks just about ready to snap. Hopefully he (and the rest of us) will manage to hold on to our sanity through the next few days:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=188640&title=governor-palin-clarification

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=188635&title=pfriend-or-pfoe

Posted by: DNA_Girl | October 21, 2008 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Moose, I recommend chili if you are unsure about the taste. You can have much of the deer made into sausage. I recommend this also. Wow. You floored me and you are only about two miles away.

FTBlogger -- ask pretty please and maybe Moose can help you score some, er, Bambi-beef-substitute.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 21, 2008 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for that gift, -tao-.
I am off to sleep with that song in my mind.
For you:
http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2693

Posted by: DNA_Girl | October 21, 2008 10:45 PM | Report abuse

Looks like sign-in is working...

More newspaper collapse: The Palm Beach Post is closing its printing plant and will use the Sun-Sentinel's facility. This, after big cuts in news and advertising staff.

Posted by: DaveoftheCoonties | October 21, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse

I like venison. It's just shocking to see the deer like that. I'm not against hunting, but I prefer to do my hunting at the meat department in the grocery store.

Guess I wouldn't make it in Alaska, huh?

I spotted a deer in my back yard this morning. (Don't worry, it's safe!) Last year during the rut, we saw two bucks ready to fight in the back yard. It was an awesome sight.

Posted by: Moose13 | October 21, 2008 10:49 PM | Report abuse

I've been yellojkt since 1992. Not gonna change now.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 21, 2008 10:50 PM | Report abuse

What's sauce for the goose (is sauce for the gander). something that you say to suggest that if a particular type of behaviour is acceptable for one person, it should also be acceptable for another person. If your husband can go out with his friends, then surely you can go out with yours. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

I fail to see how abolishing the sauce is good for either the goose or gander; rather that affirmative action works two ways, for goose and gander. The anti-sauce seems anti-good.

Posted by: -tao- | October 21, 2008 10:50 PM | Report abuse

It had just occured to me.As I have been concentrating on the presidential election almost exclusivley. What is the outlook for my party congressional-wise and the senate too.I mean do you think the dems will still control the house and the senate when Mr obama is elected. I should really be doing more research on this.

And Party at the Moose house!!!! Yay I always liked venison roasts and jerky!!!

Posted by: greenwithenvy | October 21, 2008 10:51 PM | Report abuse

On dating. "(I'm dating it to Jamestown, 1619)."

"Pocahontas probably saw white men for the first time in May 1607 when Englishmen landed at Jamestown." Some of us date earlier. December 1607, John Smith was captured. By 1619, you are late to the party.

Will You Love Me in December (as You Do in May)? Jimmy Walker

Posted by: deflag | October 21, 2008 10:56 PM | Report abuse

Au contraire, CollegeQuarkian. May I recommend breaded venison steaks in a robust wine and onion flavored gravy (add a little olive oil)?

Venison is quite lean and strong in taste, so it doesn't trade for beef in recipes that well, and it needs a good sauce. Nothing tasted right until this recipe my mom found.

Will ask for the complete particulars, but I am now salivating for my next chance at venison.

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | October 21, 2008 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Bia, change is not always positive or harmless. can you honestly take a look around and say that the character of this nation is changing for the better? The culture is full of filth and the bottom continues to be lowered. Look at all of the young white kids who have adopted the mannerisms of black ghetto culture because of the influence of gangsta rap. look at the poverty and high crime rate that seems to follow majority-minority communities. Look at the racial tensions that exist between, for example, blacks and hispanics. We just had yet another display of this in a school up here in Madison Wisconin. Wisconsin used to be one of the whiter areas of this country. That is changing along with its crime rate. What benefits are we recieving from this huge influx of third world peoples in a first world nation? Certain largely hispanic areas of this country are starting to resemble Mexico much more than the united states. This is a good thing? This nation used to be nearly 90% white. We have fallen to 67% give or take. No other peoples would think less of their own and more people of very different races and cultures is a wonderful thing. The people of this nation showed recently that they want something down about the immigration problem and nothing is being done. The 1965 immigration act which started us down this path was opposed by the majority. We live in a democracy but the will of the people no longer matters.
We are welcoming and embracing people who have a whole lot of deep and long standing grievances against us, but people will not even entertain the thought that minorities will treat white folks with anything other than the greatest of kindness. I guess the belief is, once again, that only white people are capable of racism and puting racism into action. That idea I also find amazingly naive.

Posted by: Christine8 | October 21, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, Yoki, I will seriously consider that, you're very kind. Spruce Meadows looks so gorgeous on the telly. Would definitely want to work in a trip a bit further north too. Must get my papers in order.

gwe, I think the R's are quaking in their boots about how many seats the Dem's might take. McCain was trying to use that as an argument to elect him, to keep Congress in check. Hah!

Jon Stewart was very good last night - may have to watch it again.

Posted by: seasea | October 21, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Moose, it is not everyday that your husband drags in food like he is a housecat. The shock is understandable.

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | October 21, 2008 11:04 PM | Report abuse

SCC - farther north.

Posted by: seasea | October 21, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Moose liked your comment, Wilbrod. He is still laughing.

I may try a cherry sauce. Don't know yet.

Posted by: Moose13 | October 21, 2008 11:13 PM | Report abuse

Dolphin Michael/russianthistle, re our earlier conversation about Linus Pauling:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/science/21atom.html

Posted by: DNA_Girl | October 21, 2008 11:16 PM | Report abuse

Christine8-get a grip. At the turn of the 20th century 36% of Wisconsin residents were foreign born, at the turn of the 21st they constituted just 3.5% of the population. Are Wisconsinites treating immigrants and US born minorities so badly that they should rightfully fear some sort of retribution? Or is it just you?

Posted by: frostbitten1 | October 21, 2008 11:16 PM | Report abuse

I think the wildlife parade is over for tonight. It's off to bed for me.

Posted by: Moose13 | October 21, 2008 11:17 PM | Report abuse

toodles boodle and fondue

Moose-summer sausage and lots of it.

Mix ground venison 3:1 with gound pork. Won't substitute exactly for beef but makes fine sloppy joes, chili, and wild rice hot dish. (We use hand harvested, lake grown rice to stretch hamburger and chicken up here. Who knew it was expensive? Like rhubarb it should be free.)

Posted by: frostbitten1 | October 21, 2008 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Hah! A very dear friend just bet me a serious stake that the Caps would beat the Flames handily. And I agreed that the Caps would win, so passed on the chance of a big money payout. And yet here we are, after the second quarter, at 2-1 Flames. I comfort myself that the Flames often choke in the 4th and so I might still get lucky.

But Iginla had a superb power play in the second. And I like Jerome.

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Christine8, those problems do exist but are not directly related to race. And the ghettoization of culture is largely commerically driven and plays on racial stereotypes.

The people making money off that crud are largely white, on the whole. Same for the blaxploition movies in the 70's.

You say it is important to protect our culture. What are you doing to teach culture to our youth? Have you worked with at-risk youth to give them dreams of better things than the garbage they're exposed to daily?

I happen to be very anti-illegal immigration. I haven't forgotten that Bush I gave an amnesty and by Bush II the problem was much worsened, and that if it was not for 9/11, he would have tried to pass another amnesty bill.

I also probably know a little more about the actual burdens our legal system place on legal migrants, and how this plays to the advantage of US businesses and penalizes BOTH natives and immigrants alike.

I grew up in an area with strong immigration-- and a wonderful economy, high level of education, and opportunity.

The problem with illegal immigration is when our laws penalize the illegal workers, not the illegal employers. And where there is demand, supply will evolve.

You need to separate the issues out and not lump them all under one umbrella in order to be heard and to reason the causes of each issue you're seeing. This is called critical thinking.

I'm living in a small town that is awfully white and it has a lot of drug problems. Poverty, medicore education, pollution, and lack of opportunity is the cause, not color. Get it?

Likewise, Powell is the son of Jamacian immigrants. He had education, ambition, good health, desire to succeed. Get it?

Autism, learning disorders, lowered IQ, auditory processing disorders, etc. are associated with mercury, lead, noise pollution-- all industrial/inner city factors that predominantly affect the poor.

Studies show that boys who grow up in a mixed rich-middle class neighborhood do much better even if thier families are as poor as ever. (And yes, this included racial factors). Get it?

There are thousands of people out there like that. They're trying to help their communities, too. They get it. Obama is for lead pain clean-up in all housing rented to pregnant women or mothers with young children. He gets the threat to our future.

He's not going to look out just for "blacks" or such. Get it?

What country would you recommend we follow as a model, by the way?

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | October 21, 2008 11:25 PM | Report abuse

Oy, I hope that this new comment authentication and authorization system is a little quicker now than it was this afternoon (Mike C, I'm looking at you, sir.).

I'd like to think that my 'bc' has sprouted vestigal wings to navigate through the rarified intellectual air I tend to navigate (go ahead and laugh, Mudge), and not because my handle is so sick of me that it's evolving at a super-rapid pace in order to flap its wings and get the heck away from me as fast as possible.

bc

Posted by: -bc- | October 21, 2008 11:25 PM | Report abuse

gwe, i read the blog "the fix" because it reports not just the presidential race, but broader election issues including the congress. the dems should pick up in both the house and senate. they are within striking distance of the 60 seats to block a filibuster in the senate, although i'd say it's unlikely they'll get that number.

jon stewart was great last night. one of his clips had a brief clip from congresswoman bachmann, who basically accused liberals of being unamerican (and later claimed that's not what she meant).
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/10/bachmann_goes_boom.html

the rhetoric is really ugly, but the nice development is that people were so irritated that her opponent raised 800k the day after. heh heh. well deserved, i'd say.

Posted by: LALurker | October 21, 2008 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Ms. Christine8,
It's cool that your words come with a self-destruct button. They suggest that you think people with pale skin colour have cornered the market on human decency, yet their existence negates the premise.
Kudos for being so economical.

Posted by: DNA_Girl | October 21, 2008 11:33 PM | Report abuse

gwe,
The Democrats are now going for a filibuster proof 60 Senate seats. And they have a chance. If, as George Will asserts, we as Americans like divided government, we sure have been yo-yo-ing around the middle lately. A clearly underdampened system.

Moose,
If you end up with any venison mignon you can't freeze, fax a few my way.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 21, 2008 11:34 PM | Report abuse

Flames win! Go team.

Posted by: Yoki | October 21, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse

No, no, fax them all to me, Moose!

- Wilbrodog -

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | October 22, 2008 1:32 AM | Report abuse

Thanks La lurker and yello. I guess I should have paid a little more attention to everything else.

Life has gotten much better these past couple of weeks and my mood has changed to an outlook of positive things to come.

Posted by: greenwithenvy | October 22, 2008 1:32 AM | Report abuse

Frosti - kitten katsu! That's cute!

Posted by: MiddleofthePacific | October 22, 2008 2:30 AM | Report abuse

I do hope that Christine8 will stick around. Someone who's actually casting about for rational justification for their fears is a pleasant change from those who merely succumb to them, and throw temper tantrums accordingly.

Posted by: bobsewell | October 22, 2008 2:50 AM | Report abuse

Party at Moose's?

I'll bring 23 pounds of green tomatoes (pickled or ready to fry) and armloads of fresh herbs so everyone can make their own bouquet to take home. Um. And soft pretzels and butter cake.

Posted by: -dbG- | October 22, 2008 4:38 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, this part of christine8's screed just jumped out at me.

//look at the poverty and high crime rate that seems to follow majority-minority communities.//

As someone who lived in Wisconsin when it was far more "majority," pre-gangsta rap, there was plenty of poverty and high crime. Please.

There was also plenty of high-grade venison summer sausage, though.

Posted by: -dbG- | October 22, 2008 4:45 AM | Report abuse

We seem to have lost all discipline in the Dawn Patrol since I was out of town. Up and at them.

Maureen Dowd has more about the picture that moved Colin Powell to the Obama camp.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/opinion/22dowd.html

Let's get them flying.

Posted by: yellojkt | October 22, 2008 5:28 AM | Report abuse

Moose, I'm sure bc can help you out on the venison recipe front...

Christine8, I'd offer you a Surak quote or two if I thought it would do any good.

*live-long-and-prosper-with-particular-emphasis-on-IDIC-this-fine-Hump-Day Grover waves* :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 22, 2008 5:33 AM | Report abuse

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

Good Morning Dawn

Posted by: omnigood | October 22, 2008 6:17 AM | Report abuse

'morning all. No snow yet and it's a good thing. I like Samuelson this morning.
Do you think Christine8 is a mash of Christine and From a Buick 8 ?

Posted by: shrieking_denizen | October 22, 2008 7:01 AM | Report abuse

AARRRGGG!! My brother just won't let it go. We've been arguing for three days now. At least I can say that he started it, with a link to an editorial in the Wall Street Journal. I don't mind that he's Republican nearly as much as the fact that he's swallowed the line hook, line, and sinker.

That said, nice story on my state and town in Style this morning:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/21/AR2008102103002.html?hpid=artslot

Posted by: slyness | October 22, 2008 7:14 AM | Report abuse

slyness, have him come to the Boodle... ;-)

shriek, that seems unlikely, given the content and presentation.

*safely-landed-following-a-leisurely-Brunswick-Line-Dawn-Patrol additional Grover waves* :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 22, 2008 7:27 AM | Report abuse

Morning y'all. I'm going to be cloistered away today. Just me and a bunch of analysts in a windowless lab. But we do get free coffee.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | October 22, 2008 7:28 AM | Report abuse

Mornin' everybody...

Off to a slow start this morning. I forced myself to stay awake for Stewart and Colbert last night and now I'm paying for it. Nothing a pot of coffee won't fix.

So how about hockey/WallyMart mom Sarah Palin spending $150K of the RNC's money to buy designer clothing for herself and her family? They've been all over it on Morning Joe this morning. Yep... she's doing a fine job of showing working women that she's just like them and feels their pain.

Cassandra... you up yet? Hope you're feeling better!

Time for another coffee before the sawdust starts flying.

Peace out and Happy Hump Day everybody... :-)

Posted by: martooni | October 22, 2008 7:31 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, you all.

Yello, dawn comes a bit colder lately, so I've been rather slow moving. Must tell all that I am staked out near kitchen door because I have filled the feeder for the first time since May and am waiting to see who of the dawn patrol birds will find hulled sunflower seeds first.

On a sort of silly side, if you identify with any of the birds in your region, I would love to know which one? I'm thinking of doing an analogy of the boodle as a gathering place of birds, and would love to know how you see yourselves. To start off, the cardinal is the quiet, early, early bird to the feeder, but a welcomed sight. Can anyone identify with the red bird?

Posted by: VintageLady | October 22, 2008 7:32 AM | Report abuse

Mornin' VL,

Love the purple finch with the splotch of rosy magenta; but the house finch chirrups so sparkly...cannot choose.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 22, 2008 7:41 AM | Report abuse

Oh, no cardinal for me, VL.

I fly the dodo flag! :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 22, 2008 7:48 AM | Report abuse

Hello and good morning.

Haven't quite finished backboodling but just have to test and see if my handle works.

-tao- = Tao Te Ching

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_Ching

Posted by: rainforest1 | October 22, 2008 7:50 AM | Report abuse

Rainforest = Tao!

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 22, 2008 7:52 AM | Report abuse

Oh good, it works. I really don't want the "1". I want to be dashing. It's hipper (I just created a new word), too.If I change, I wonder if it'll screw things up for me. Anyway, I try tomorrow. Now, I have to finish dinner.

Posted by: rainforest1 | October 22, 2008 7:58 AM | Report abuse

Hi, CP. No, I'm not -tao-. It'll be nice if he/she would introduce himself/herself to us though.

Posted by: rainforest1 | October 22, 2008 8:02 AM | Report abuse

Bonjour les Boodlers.
A bit late for Dawn Patrol--vroom, vroom anyway.

Had late night online meeting with my writers' critique group who has been busy tearing my next thriller to pieces.

Brag

Posted by: Braguine | October 22, 2008 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Robin G commentary on Palin's style: interesting montage of photos. Frosti -- Cindy's unfortunate hair front and center.

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=16&art_id=73218&sid=21100913&con_type=1&d_str=&fc=5

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 22, 2008 8:05 AM | Report abuse

If I'd have known I'd never have to type the handle again, I'm sure I'd have come up with something much hipper. Ah well, I yam what I yam.

moose, at our house venison is meat. Beef is foreign except for the very occasional steak, and hamburger to mix with the game. No strong taste IMHO, but then, we do eviserate our own critter, and ALL the bone and fat is removed. If you do so, it has a fairly long freezer life. If the butcher doens't remove ALL the fat and bone, it will spoil in under 6 months, giving it the strong taste that others talk about.

Nothing makes a finer tasting gravy than deer. Seriously.

Posted by: --dr-- | October 22, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

I can fly!

Posted by: -jack- | October 22, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Brag,

http://www.cartoonbank.com/search_results_category.asp?sitetype=1§ion=all&keyword=editor&x=0&y=0&advanced=0

Look at the first cartoon in the top left of the search results.

Posted by: Yoki | October 22, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Hi, all. The WP seems to have chosen the "1" after my handle for me - I was/am logged in as just Wheezy, but to comment here it demands the 1. Oh well.

The Gihvan article included this last line: She proves that a woman can wear red patent-leather shoes and still take questions on foreign policy and the economy.

And I'm scratching my head. I think Palin has not "proven" that she can answer the questions. Take them, then mumble and spout talking points, but not answer them.

Posted by: Wheezy1 | October 22, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Oh, those silly comic strip authors, mining the Boodle again...

http://wpcomics.washingtonpost.com/client/wpc/tmrkt/

Can't wait to see SciTim show up in the "All About" episode. :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | October 22, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Wheezy, I agree, which means I disagree with RG's conclusion.

I would like to see more latitude with what professional women can wear, but Palin is setting us back, actually, not moving us forward.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 22, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I am amazed that we spend so little time discussing the are of getting elected as opposed to the reasoning powers of those running. Can they govern?

Just the fact that John McCain said that he knows where bin Laden is and he knows how to get him is reason enough to say forget it, sir.

Of course, he said the same thing about the economy and the banking crisis. AND, he said that the federal budget, which needs to be increased to help Americans deal with the crisis should be cut when in a deep recession or depression the federal government always have to do large outlays to fire up the economhy.

No wonder McCain was pointing the "Hoover finger" at Obama. He doesn't want to know that he is precisely the next Hoover, if elected. That's his plan.

Posted by: russianthistle | October 22, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

PITA to have to re-sign in. The rest of the day ought to be more seamless (hoping).

Rainforest -- how cool. I was trying to figure out the language origin of the characters you were posting yesterday, and you've got to tell me if I'm right: The first couple sets were Chinese (and with an alternative boodle handle of -tao-, that's almost a gimme), and the second, what I would call "sparing" were Japanese. Am I right? Now, I wouldn't, even in my more assertive moments, even dare to guess what they mean, do you wanna tell us?

I'm getting my new chair delivered today from The Healthy Back store. Loads of very needed lumbar support. *tingling in anticipation*

As for Christine8 up in the white section of Wisconsin, I have found my greatest life pleasures to be among diversity -- diversity of color, diversity of culture, diversity of customs, diversity of food ('specially that -- great restaurants down here in DC, since the whole world is here in one way or another), etc. I cannot for the life of me figure out why on earth you are so fearful of differences. The rest of the boodle already knows this, but 5 years ago, I was in two countries in East Africa (Uganda and Tanzania), an experience which entirely changed my life. I taught a week-long course in E-commerce law in Uganda (8 days after Idi Amin died in Saudi Arabia) and spent a week-long safari in Tanzania. I have become lifelong friends with two of my former students -- one of them has introduced me to his other 6 siblings as the "mzungu"(white) American sibling (even though I'm only about 6 or 7 years younger than their mother), and I've had contact with 3 of the 6 other siblings, one of them (who lives in England with her family (married to a white Englishman)) regularly (she's the oldest, just about to be 46). They have even bestowed upon me an African name.

My father was a bigot and generally a deeply frightened man. He wouldn't understand my love for Africa and Africans at all. He would have disowned me had he been alive to know of my trip over there. What a waste of a life -- to fear and hate automatically, when what is needed is to watch and to learn and to meet and to discuss and to teach and to learn more. I hope I never stop learning *anything* ever.

Christine, if your whiteness is what defines you, then that's your choice. My world view is not nearly so constipated. Just remember, you will always be outnumbered by the Chinese.

Posted by: firsttimeblogger | October 22, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Ozhika -- palik t'kau ri shaht. -Surak

Posted by: -tao- | October 22, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

老聃 - by way of introduction, for Rainforest and the ever curious CquaP.

Posted by: -tao- | October 22, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

firsttimeblogger, what a great post.

Posted by: dmd2 | October 22, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Vulcan poem, -Tao-, I think.

I will let someone else ask who.

Blustery day with some sun on the shoulder. Pity to be spent indoors.

DR -- does mule deer taste like white-tailed deer?

And, Moose. Is the deer in your garage now? Did he literally bring this item home?

I am remembering at age four stumbling into the back barn and finding Bambi and freinds "hanging" out.


Nowadays, children watch the Lion King to learn about the great circle of life.

Posted by: CollegequaParkian | October 22, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

For firsttimeblogger: 中文 standard Mandarin and Pinyin 汉语/漢語 a phonetic romanized script may appear different, but are the same. Meaning is in the space between the lips and ear, the eye and mind, of the speaker and listener, the writer and reader.

Posted by: -tao- | October 22, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

' morning boodle! Dreary rain and cold here today, but good for getting indoor work done.

Re cp's link and martooni's comment-Too bad RG seems to have written her piece on Palin style before the news of the big fashion spending spree. Seems to me the RNC didn't get much for its money as she looks pretty much the same before/after on TV. Perhaps they needed to upgrade so she'd play better in person with all those rich folks who are regular Joes. Liked the bit about her hair being the young busy mom thing. I've found it also very common among Frostdottir's 19 year old cohort-acceptably neat for their entry level jobs and at their age no professional intervention required.

Time to watch the dawn patrol's six with a quick tour of the papers-all of them of course-then back to the grindstone.

Ruffed grouse recipes anyone? Frostdaddy is here for his annual hunting trip and has promised enough birds to have Sunday dinner. I have many techniques for using grouse in place of chicken, but I'd rather do something you could only find in a restaurant in one of our finer anti American cities.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | October 22, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Old Dan?
http://translate.google.com/translate_t#zh-CN|en|老聃

BTW that google translate tool is cute!
I checked out DNA and I don't think there's a formal word for it in Hindi, but it gave me the phonetic spelling. The other Hindi word (ladaki) is Girl. Hi :-)

डीएनए लड़की

Posted by: DNA_Girl | October 22, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

-tao- consider me one of your most earnest fans! Wowie-zowie! What you just posted reminds me of why I am so infatuated with Buddhism. Geez -- how am ever going to get *any* work done now, with what you wrote toon-cootieing in my brain???

*sigh*

(thanks)

Posted by: firsttimeblogger | October 22, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

frosti, grouse is a dry meat. wet cooking methods are a must. My mother used to put a pair in a large pot of baking beans an hour or two before the beans were cooked. It adds flavour to the beans too. She was also making a tomato-based mixed stew with hare and salted pork. Good memories that, thanks.
I would try to treat them like quail, if I were still hunting.
That reminds me of the famous "Quails in their Sarcophagus" of the movie Le Festin de Babette/Babette's Feast. I'm salivating now.
http://www.mydigitalkitchen.com/en/recipe_show.php?p_iId=509

Posted by: shrieking_denizen | October 22, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Sorta kinda on topic, Samuelson has another one of his strongly-worded columns about how the young should rise up against the oppression of the old. And I must agree that this assumption that the elderly are universally poor needs to be, um, retired. I mean, my in-laws have much more money than do I, but who gets the discount at Denny's?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/21/AR2008102102252.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Posted by: RD_Padouk | October 22, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Oh, Shriek -- you're doing it, too! How could I live without you guys??? Honestly. One of my favorite movies is Babettes Gæstebud/Babette's Feast! I read the book in Danish (and it's kinda "old Danish"), but (gratefully) after I'd seen the movie a few times, so I knew the story and could concentrate on the language. Izak Dinesen/Karin Blixen was a wonderful story teller, and I'd like to get some of her African based books. Her writing in Danish is, well, a bit complicated.

What I found interesting about seeing the movie was that I could understand Stephane Autran's Danish (phonetically speaking) more easily than the Danish-Danish. Danish is a very difficult language to understand, as they seem to swallow everything. I can read it with no real problem, but understanding it as it is spoken is really difficult for me, unless I'm well rested and they're speaking distinctly and slowly (which is never normally done, of course).

I'm sooo hungry now.

Posted by: firsttimeblogger | October 22, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Most excellent research, DNA_Girl:

LAO-ZI
Also known as LAO-DAN, LAO-TZU, LAO-TSE, LI-ER, LI-ERH, LAO-TAN.
http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=LAO-ZI

Posted by: -tao- | October 22, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Yoki --Thanks for the cartoon :o)

Posted by: Braguine | October 22, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

I'm not too impressed with the TV and other coverage of Palin's clothes. It's a campaign and it's showbiz.

What I do want is someone to research the "vp as Senate president" angle some more. Now, I am starting to link all that to a new attempt to bail out Cheney for his recent claims, but that's a different story. Last night I saw Buchanan and Chris Matthews debating the role of vp and I could tell neither one of them had done even the cursory research I did the other day, which I'll re-post now:

"I can't find out how or when or even IF the Vice-President's role as President of the Senate historically withered on the vine and the President Pro-tempore began the official job (which I know is often itself delegated.) All I can find is 'As President of the Senate, John Adams cast twenty-nine tie-breaking votes—a record that no successor except for John C. Calhoun ever threatened. His votes protected the president's sole authority over the removal of appointees, influenced the location of the national capital, and prevented war with Great Britain. On at least one occasion he persuaded senators to vote against legislation that he opposed, and he frequently lectured the Senate on procedural and policy matters. Adams' political views and his active role in the Senate made him a natural target for critics of the Washington administration. Toward the end of his first term, as a result of a THREATENED RESOLUTION (Jumper's emphasis) that would have silenced him except for procedural and policy matters, he began to exercise more restraint...'

"Was a threatened resolution the only thing that began the tradition of non-interference? Who LAST attempted to lecture the Senate on procedure?
In short, if a VP showed up and demanded the right to preside all the time, what would happen? I assume the Senate would quickly pass a resolution to formalize the situation of VP noninterference."

I wish I knew a writer with better research materials and knowledge of this period who could wrap up once and for all the history of the diminishment of the vp role in the Senate, if indeed this history extends beyond Adams which I bet it does. A writer like, oh, I dunno...

Posted by: Jumper1 | October 22, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Jumper - You could have saved the money that you gave to the Healthy Back Store if you'd just asked Ted Stevens to lend you the chair that he wouldn't accept as a gift!

Also, there's a new Kit.

Posted by: bobsewell | October 22, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

New Kit!

Posted by: -dbG- | October 22, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Of course, I'm an idiot, and I know that it's firsttimer's chair.

Sigh.

Posted by: bobsewell | October 22, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

FTBs posting on Africa reminds me:

I had spent about a month in the Kenyan coastal bush with a small crew of Bajuns and Wattas. We subsisted mainly on fish and crabs which we caught, we made our own palm beer.

Returning to civilization, in the village of Garsen, I walked into a store to get a coke. I was shocked to see a white man sitting at a table. Feeling uncomfortable, I went back outside.

Two hours later, and a highly developed thirst, I went into a Mzungu beach hotel
to treat myself to a cold beer. The cold beer was a shoking dissapointment.

At least my wife did not scare me when I got home.

Posted by: Braguine | October 22, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Samuelson - now Who is this guy Talkin' 'bout My Generation, and talking directly the younger crowd so that they Won't Get Fooled Again?

And where was he 35 years ago, when we needed to hear these words?

There's never been a shortage of Angry Young in any culture. I was one, and believed I was immortal. Thinking about long term health benefits had about as much to do with my day-to-day existence as Quantum Mechanics and how many angels could dance on the head of a pin.

I was brimming with anger, hormones and youthful energy and not so inclined to spend that energy on confronting Congressional representatives in an organized, thoughtful fashion.

I wanted to see, to experience, to do, to act as I saw fit, trapped in the surging cauldron of energy and emotion I inhabited as a young man. Not particularly conducive for thoughtful, constructive political work, but more suited to gladitorial action (ahem).

I could go on, but wasn't it Shaw that said youth is wasted on the young?

In my case, he was partially right.

bc

Posted by: -bc- | October 22, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

I want to thank some sem-lurker by the moniker of ldsw for posting a link to the picture of the mom at the grave of her Muslim soldier son. Mo MoDo used it in her latest post.

http://dowdreport.blogspot.com/2008/10/colins-courage.html

Posted by: yellojkt | October 22, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

"So, can African-Americans be 'racists?' Yes, if you deny the last 300 years of oppression of African-Americans." Congratulations to the previous speaker, who just killed Martin Luther King's dream that "...one day...my two little children will be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Posted by: DoTheRightThing | October 23, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

I've created a group on Facebook called Change Your Name for Change because it's important to support Barack Hussein Obama's right as a real American to run for president with any kind of name, whether or not it seems foreign or "un-American" to some people.

In this group we have all decided to change our middle names to Hussein. In this way we stand in solidarity with all Americans whose families have come to this country from around the world.

Of course, pundits who emphasize the "Hussein" in Barack Hussein Obama's name are implicitly trying to make a connection to other Husseins Americans have heard of (like the dreaded Saddam), and generally emphasize his putative foreignnness.

This "nationalist" tactic should be recognized as opposing the original American value. This country was created as a haven where citizens would have the freedom to hold and express any belief. Most of our families came to this country from other lands. Americanness is an ideal construct. Let's keep this noble ideal alive. Change YOUR middle name to Hussein.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=54208937048

Posted by: jillunit | October 26, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse

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