Swine Flu and Pontiac

I guess I shouldn't say I watched "I am Legend" last night!!Scary movie,I should have never watched it before going to bed.

Yep, according to what I have read (and I have a rather sordid fascination with the 1918 influenza outbreak) it was indeed a cytokine storm. The body doing what it thought best.

This is a good example of a response that works well from an evolutionary standpoint, but sometimes not in the specific. It's sort of like sickle cell anemia, which offers an evolutionary advantage on average, because of greater immunity to maleria, but can wreak havoc in an individual in a different environment.

Wouldn't it be nice if our involuntary responses had a manual over-ride? Where we could tell our immune response to, you know, just chill?

As well as a few other involuntary responses that have been known to get people into trouble.

You know I just got used to coughing into my elbow, after all that early training to cover my mouth with my hands. Looks like it was just in time.

In 1918 Our Fair City wasn't a city yet, and the cemetery was still located on an island to be easily accessible by boat. As a kid, rowing out to the island and walking among the headstones of people not much older than yourself, but not the babies expected after years of Ma Frostbitten's cemetery tourism, was very sobering.

'nother interesting thing about the 1918 pandemic, is that it was actually made worse by people getting together for patriotic rallies and fundraisers encouraged by President Wilson. As those in Mexico City understand, getting together in large groups is bad.

Like attendance at the National's games weren't pathetic enough as it is.

I'm guessing that President Obama using his visit to the National Academy of Sciences to downplay the sudden panic will have some credibility.

The 1918 epidemic hit when yellow fever was still a living memory in the US.

I'm not sure about the logic of keeping Buick while canning Pontiac. GM must figure Buick has better dealers, but I've long had a feeling that Buicks are purchased only by retirees who bought GM products their whole lives, and for whom the Buick will be the last new car.

Reposting from previous Boodle (before I even read the Kit! I am probably gonna say all kinds of wrong things! But, I'm doing it anyway!):

Regarding anti-viral medications vs. vaccines. I think this can be chalked up to simple aphasia, laloomis, or even assigned to the fact that in a nontechnical discussion the distinction is not particularly important. As to whether Perry asked for "more than his fair share", I think that the central issue in the comment is the irony inherent in the contrast between Perry's braggadocio about how Texas might go its own way rather than pay taxes vs. his demands for help with exactly the kind of thing (public health policy) that Republicans claim they shouldn't be supporting with their taxes.

As to whether the virus has a target: of course a virus has targets. Viruses tend to be species-specific, which is a clear example of targeting. The relative lack of species preference in influenza is one of the things that makes it so dangerous as it hops between reservoir populations and acquires additional genetic material from them. I believe LiT was making reference to who is most likely to get the virus and to suffer the worst symptoms -- I think this was fairly clear from context. One possibility is that the worst effect (i.e., death) is found among the young and otherwise healthy because they practice poor hygiene and fail to seek expensive medical care until too late. An example of human perfidy and inequity, not a trait of the virus. The other, and much more worrisome possibility (as you should well know from your own reading), is that the flu symptomology is worst among the young and otherwise healthy for the same reason as the 1918 epidemic tended to hit that population, because it provoked an excessive immune response within those with the healthiest immune systems. Essentially, influenza-provoked suicide.

In matters of public health, the demographics of the most-severely affected (alternatively, "targeted") population are extraordinarily important. The fact that one of the influenza mortalities was a young pregnant woman does not disprove the demographic point that the primary afflicted population may be young men -- not that I know this for a fact, I am merely pointing out that a single counter-example does not demonstrate an alternative demographics. The demographics define where the most effective first-order countermeasures must be imposed.

Posted by: ScienceTim | April 27, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Hmmmm. Wonder if one couldn't rename swine flu the "mad sow disease."

Hey, just tryin' to put a little spin on it, that's all. A little porcine humor, brought to you by the Cattle Association of America lobbists.

Both of these topics bring back memories. When I graduated college way back in 1968, my father bought me a Pontiac LeMans in the then ubiquitous avocado green (I mean that color was *everywhere* -- even kitchen appliances; I think I still have a blender and/or hand mixer in that color). It was a sweet car and close enuf to a GTO to make me feel ultra-cool.

As for the 1918 pandemic, it brings to mind my mother's reminiscences of her time in an orphanage with her siblings during that time. Mom was the youngest and my grandmother parked the kids there for maybe 3 years so she could go out to work and get enough money to get them out and raise them. She told me of a time when all the adults who came to visit were kept behind a fence in a particular area of the outside of the orphanage grounds, and they could come no closer to the children. That must have been during the pandemic. It's the only thing I could think of. And this was in Los Angeles.

I hope the swine flu does not turn into a pandemic. I also hope that those who are sick do *not* go to work or to school while they are sick and contagious. I know a guy in Michigan who is a banker and *always* shows up in the office when he's sick. He feels lousy, but doesn't want to stay at home. And while he's at the office he gets to contaminate the whole place and make others sick -- and some of these others may have compromised immune systems which might lead to situations which could severely sicken them or kill them. I've told him countless times that he's a selfish idiot for doing this, but my recriminations don't seem to faze him. *expletive* banker!!!

And, suddenly, it's now the afternoon. What on earth happened to the morning? And, say, how about them Caps, eh? I'm really thrilled for them. I'll continue to support their efforts up until they meet the Red Wings and then you all *know* which team I'm supporting!!!!

Yeah, Tim, you and both got caught in the "New Kit Time Warp. Reposting mine, too:

I feel like I'm Boodlehogging here, but I feel the need to inject a few factoids into a discussion I've been trying to stay out of. But it may shed some light.

The idea that this particular swine flue is targeting teens/young adults (male or female) is both unusual and scary for this reason"

(1) There is a difference between the cohort of people that a flu or other virus tends to attack, versus who is likely to die from it. Viruses tend to attack "all" kinds of people about equally; that isn't the problem. It is that once attacked, some kinds of people are more susceptible to the let5hality than others.

The relevance here is that most flus and virus tend to be most lethal to the groups you'd expect: the "weakest," i.e. infants and old people, and anyone else with weakened immune systems. Thus in most flu epidemics it is young children and us old farts who are most at risk.

Now, here's what's scary: in the great Spanish Flu epidemic of 1918, the subject of the John Barry book Loomis mentioned, it was pointed out that the Spanish Flu was different from almost all others, because it "targeted" younger people, teens to people in their 20s, 30, and 40s, and killed them, much more so than infants and old folks. This is entirely counter-intuitive, and it took a helluva long time to figure this out and explain it. The upshot is that the Spanish Flu of 1918, which quite properly still scares the bejaysus out of everyone, specifically attacked the immune system, and it appears that's where it replicated. Hence, the Spanish flu tended to kill people with *strong* immune systems (people in their teens, 20s, 30s) and tended to let babies and old folks recover more or less like "ordinary" flu.

more

2

Insofar as the early reports seem to show, *this* swine flu seems to be doing the same thing as the 1918 Spanish flu: targeting (or at least killing) people with strong immune systems (i.e. teens, people in their 20s, etc.). So it is no wonder this thing is scaring the crap out of people.

(2) There is -- or ought to be -- a gigunda proviso in all of this, which is that so far, we have very limited numbers on this swine flu, and I don't think the numbers are yet anywhere near high enough to start drawing conclusions about whom it is targeting or how and why. 10 cases here and 20 cases there and 50 more over yonder is NOT statistically enough to start making conclusions with. All the "vectors" seem to be pointing to Mexico, just as the SARS vectors pointed to China, and the 1918 Spanish flu vectors pointed to Ft. Riley, Kansas. But the actual location means nothing in and of itself. This one appears to be Mexico, SARS was China, 1918 was Kansas (maybe), the Legionnaires Disease (a bacteria, not a virus) came from the Bellevue Stratford Hotel in Philly, etc.

The specific location, in and of itself, doesn't mean much. These things can break out pretty much anywhere.

(3) This thing is still *very* new, and I doubt we have anything even close to sufficient knowledge about its origins, causation (whether swine or avian), etc. All we know right now is a bunch of people in Mexico got it first and worst.

Posted by: curmudgeon-1 | April 27, 2009 11:57 AM

Does Pontiac make anything other than rental cars these days? Other than one Solstice and one GTO owner, I don't know anybody that owns a late model Pontiac, but I've driven a bunch, including a G6 and a Torrent, as rentals. Heck, even the new GTO looked like a souped up G6, and they discontinued it three years ago. (Of course, in their day, plenty of muscle cars were souped up versions of the family grocery getter, GTO included.)

I will say I was impressed with the G6's offroad capabilities one day out in Utah.

there was a VW ad quite sometime ago that was pulled because one of the characters asked: "Do I look like the kind of guy that'd drive a *Buick*?"

I have a Pontiac, it replaced another Pontiac - mainly because a good friend works for the dealership - but I have greatly enjoyed both cars.

Re Swine flu, some cases under investigation now in Ontario - imagine this scenario will be popping up everywhere now.

This is for yellojkt...

http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/yahoo_shutting_down_geocities

Since we're in such apocalyptic mood, I have a question for ScienceTim and other scientifically inclined Boodlers.

When THE LAST DROP of oil is exhausted, we talk about alternative sources of energy. Great. Since lubricants needed by high speed machinery, are there alternative lubricants to the petroleum based variety?

Brag

Brag, the answer is butter. Totally organic, doesn't use petrochemicals, is safe, AND you can spread it on your toast.

*rolling my eyes* As if there wasn't enough anxiety out there...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30435336

(Oleo, in some applications, I suppose.)

I resemble that, firsttimeblogger! I used to be one of those people who bravely went to the office while sick. Finally I realized (a) I wasn't indispensable, (b) I wasn't getting much work done and (c) people would prefer I stayed home. Also, I discovered that if I stayed home in bed, possibly with medication, I got well a lot faster. Now, of course, one of my colleagues has terminal cancer and we're all behind his efforts to stay alive as long as possible (or at least until his daughter graduates from high school). None of us on this floor come to work sick. [www.jimchastain.com]

Breaking...

About 10 minutes ago, a 5.8 earthquake hit the Guerrero area of Mexico--northwest of Acapulco. Felt sharply for 30 to 45 seconds in Mexico City, people evacuating buildings into the street. So much for social distancing...

What is this? The snide news?

Really, Linda. The comment on social distancing was totally uncalled for--people were injured.

Those body temperature scanners at the airport are used primarily as part of the android-detection program, aren't they?

Well, TBG, I now know the topic of conversation when I next see our mutual hairstylist. She's probably out buying surgical masks right this minute.

I'll be bok, bobsewell.

Actually, I kind of like the "social distancing" comment. It's a fair & accurate observation. Streets that were empty, suddenly not so much.

That FAA story Scotty linked to is just incredible: sending one of the 747 "Air Force One" aircraft (with the distinctive and widely known paint scheme) flying low down the Hudson River and headed toward the Statue of Liberty chased by TWO F-16 fighter planes as some sort of training exercise-- and then not telling EVERYONE about it ahead of time. Thousands panic, flee buildings on both banks of the river, NY and Jersey both.

Jeez. Ya couldn't write that as fiction.

Bonehead, bonehead, bonehead, bonehead.

Mudge,
butter, oleo? Try oiling a pistol with butter and see how long it will take to jam.

laloomis: It's funny that you think LiT needs to read more -- I've never seen her without a book or some sort of reading material on hand. I think she reads while she's stirring gravy on her stove, and considers Thucydides beach reading. "Bubble gum for the brain," I've heard her call it.

And I doubt they gave her a PBK membership because of her taste in shoes.

bc

Lubricants are fairly expensive Brag. You can go synthetic all the way (starting with coal or CO2 even) and still make money. Stuff we burn not so much so. Plastics are in-between; they will be expensive.

Longevity isn't my problem, Brag. But look at it like this: ya can lick the bullets. And you can have salted or unsalted, plus whipped for those occasions when cold butter is too hard to use.

I think I'd market it under the name "I Can't Believe It's Not 10W-40."

Brag, it was stay operational just long enough to shoot someone in Chapter One.

Teflon, graphite, K-Y jelly, & molybdenum disulfide come to mind. There are lots of lubricants with varying properties.

The 747 and the F16s were overflying New-York for a flipping photo-op.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/air-force-one-backup-rattles-new-york-nerve/

There's always the favored lubricant of movie popcorn: Durkee's Dress-All.

Scotty, that flyover NYC reminds me of 30 Rock's "Rockefeller Center Salute to Fireworks!"

"Fireworks? In midtown? On a day that's not Fourth of July? Oh, boy. That's gonna scare a lot of people."

Brag-castor oil, or at least some oil like product from castor beans? I saw some nifty coiled tubing made with castor beans last week; it was indistinguishable from the petroleum based type.

Yet another use for Avon's Skin-So-Soft!!! Lubing up your Kalashnikov.

Apocryphal tales say the Italians used olive oil for motor oil in WWII and it worked fine...

I was pulling everyone's leg with the Popov valve. There was a Popov shipbuilder of the name given, but I don't think he invented the pop-off valve.

One of the unspoken things going on with the flu story is, I believe, a perception that some people are going into premature panic mode. I doubt that's true but I'm sure doctors will tell you there are a lot of people more worried than they need to be. Not that "worry" helps ward off flu. I expect if we simply doubled hand-washing in this country, the decline in all infectious disease (as a class) would be dramatic. I also read somewhere that pictures of mask-clad Japanese during epidemics are routinely misinterpreted by Westerners; that the masks are to protect OTHERS from the wearers' coughing, not so much the wearers from others'.

I routinely follow this blog but
http://homesicktexan.blogspot.com/2009/04/whats-in-your-english-pea-salad.html
the cheese & pea salad turned me off. (An exception; I highly recommend the site otherwise.) I began thinking of an alternative, blackeyed pea salad. I have just built one on inspiration, and from the taste, succeeded on my first try. Cooked canned blackeyed peas, drained. Chopped 1 small onion, 1/3 a poblano pepper, one small tomato. Olive oil, red wine vinegar, salt, pepper. Beginners luck. It's chilling now. It could use some parsley or cilantro but the lack is not fatal.

(And it will keep your holster nice and soft, as well as mosquito-free.)

Good News folks.
I have accepted a job at a Hotel in the Baltimore area.More money,better benefits and a chance for advancement.

I guess I should ask Yellow,are their any fish in the Patapsco that like Canadian Night crawlers?

tomsing, one sign that Pontiac might be going away was the fact that GM wasn't willing to invest in original platforms/chassis for it.

The RWD Solstice roadster is based on a European Opel GT platform, and the RWD GTO and follow-up new G8 sedan were produced in Austrailia by GM's Holden brand, and based on the Monaro/Commodore platform (yes, they make *very* cool cars Down Under). And before you ask -- I'd love to own one if I had the means.

Personally, I don't see Buick going away (especially as the average age of Americans continues to increase) as GM is investing in new products there, but keep an eye on Saturn.
The very sharp Sky roadster is based on that same Opel platform as the Solstice, and the new Saturn products we're seeing - Aura, Vue, and Astra are all based on GM Europe/Opel products as well, IIRC.

I've had some experiences with GTOs myself, a white '65 389 tri-power that my best friend drove back in the day, and a gorgeous black '69 400 HO Ram Air with a hood tach that made a few family trips from DC to NYC and back...

Don't even get me started on Firebirds and Trans Ams.

bc

Congrats, gwe!!! *applause*

Buick is big in China.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12801549/

Fabulous news, GWE! Now you will have no excuse for missing any BPH's!

Interesting. That Michael Scheuer op-ed has disappeared from the front page without a trace. Was it there yesterday? Maybe it reached its sell-by expiration date and went bad. Of course, I'd argue it went bad starting with the first sentence.

Reflecting from the previous boodle, back in the "good old days" of railroading, animal fat (tallow) was used for lubrication of locomotives and rolling stock (not to mention candles). Hence the old, old nickname "tallowpot" for the fireman, who would slop the stuff around most any time the engine paused. The development of oil refining technology in the late 19th century eventually put an end to using animal fat for lubricants.

Pontiac does sell the Vibe, essentially the same car as a Toyota Matrix, except it depreciates faster (and is made at NUMMI in Fremont, California rather than in a Toyota plant in Ontario).

GM seemed to be depending heavily on Opel designs, as bc mentioned. If they abandon Opel, where will the next batch of cars come from? Could a Chrysler-Fiat-Opel alliance end up selling Saturn-like cars as Chryslers?

Larkin,
I don't know where you get your news? No people were injured in Mexico City in the quake last hour, according to preliminary reporting by CNN. Gas lines broken, electric power lines down, trees toppled. No structures fell. Of course, in Guerrero and Chilpancingo, more rural, the situation may be different.

Snide news? Your comment is careless and idiotic. The point of "social distancing" is to stop the spread of the swine flu. The earthquake an hour ago sent people into the street into crowds that clustered on the sidewalk. Some were wearing masks, others weren't. Hence--because of the quake, the lack of social distancing vis-a-vis the urgency of swine flu in Mexico City, given how tightly packed people were outside buildings after they felt the temblor and ran into the streets.

You either have advance news on injuries resulting from the quake--highly unlikely--or you haven't been following the swine flu news and its new lingo.

*SIGHHHHHH*

Just confirmed the Uptown will NOT be showing "Star Trek" on the 9th, so we need to pick another spot for the STBPH.

Maybe Scheur sobered up and pulled it out. :-)

Brag

Huzzah, gwe!

I was avoiding that Michael Scheuer piece all weekend.

It does seem like a bone-headed move about the 747 over NYC. Seems like they could have quietly told folks in the nearby buildings. I suppose if they made a general announcement, they could set themselves up for target practice. OTOH, maybe it was good evacuation practice. I live near 3 airports, not counting SeaTac, so I've become inured to low-flying, noisy planes. Sometimes when the odd F-18 or Marine helicopter comes by I check the news in case there's something I should know about.

Unfortunate that Joel doesn't explain the meaning of cyanotic. It would help to explain the quote by Dr. Roy Grist that Joel quite possibly lifted from John M.Barry's book, The Great Influenza" (p. 187), and the suspicion that swine flu was the Black Death, mentioned in Joel's last graf.

Uh-oh. We've got to find another spot fast, Scotty. We've got guests coming in from out-of-town (country).

Hmmmmm... "Star Trek" is in Imax at the Alexandria theater, a short walk from the Eisenhower Ave Metro.

Shows at 1:10 and 4:10 on the 9th.

Oh for heavens sake, Loomis. If you don't know the meaning of cyanotic, go look it up! The whole point of this enterprise is to exchange information, not to insult people. If part of the educational process is to learn new words, that's all to the good!

congrats, greenie.

Scottynuke - thanks for double checking that ST BPH (blast it all!). Maybe the theaters in downtown Bethesda, a little further up the Metro Red Line, and plenty of good places to eat and drink about?

(I should check bfore I make more suggestions...)

bc

I don't know 'zackly where the Alexandria IMAX is - is it within walking distance of Old Town or any finer establishments?

bc

Not exactly walking distance to Old Town, but proximity to Metro sure widens the possibilities... :-)

It's showing in regular 35mm at the White Flint Mall, also close to the Red Line and many fine dining establishments...

bc, appears to be right near the metro about two blocks east of King Street. Sounds like a good location to me.

http://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS207US208&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=alexandria+amc+hoffman&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&view=text&latlng=14320071138051220159

And we can pre-buy tickets there! :-)

Hey! I'm eligible for the senior citizen discount there!!!

(So why am I cheering?)

Well, the big question, how many more decades will it take to kill off all the Pontiacs in Havana?

I meant we could pre-buy at White Flint, not at the Alexandria IMAX version.

Anyone really bent out of shape that Joel didn't define the term and provide a detailed bibliography can always look here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm

I think I prefer olive oil, Mudge, although that has a lower smoke point.

laloomis: re. your 2:05 - I'm sure you didn't really just suggest Joel plagiarized anything.

Er, did you?

bc

I like White Flint because of free parking and easy Beltway access for those of us driving. And we can dine outdoors at PF Chang if the weather's nice!

laloomis - Your lack of confidence in the ability of persons of even limited education to discern the meaning of the word "cyanotic" from the context of the passage is disheartening. I shudder to imagine the kind of dolts with whom you must be consorting.

The letter to which you refer, and from which the passage is taken, is very, very widely published. Sort of like the Hardy-Ramanujan taxicab story. No account of the 1918 flu outbreak is complete without it. The complete letter is available (among a vast number of places) here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/influenza/sfeature/devens.html

And you know I always prefer olive oil.

It's good for my skin, too.

bc

ooops - "cyanosis"

RD, I have had certain issues with Joel's constant use of "big words."

On lubricants, I am sure you could make almost anything out of a soy bean, but I like the idea of using Irish Butter because it rivals in cost the current petroleum-based lubricant choices.

I don't object to White Flint...but the prospect of seeing it in Imax is pretty staggering. We can pre-order at the Alex Imax, too.

I just looked at the official site for the movie, and am really psyched about it. A very young James Kirk (Chris Pine, whoever he is), and a very young Spock (Zachary Quinto, terrific casting of whoever that guy is). Zoe Saldana, who knocks my sox off anyway, as a young (delectable) Uhuru. (And Winona Ryder as Spock's mom?...well, OK, I guess.)

Yes bc. Yes she most certainly did.

Mudge - That Quinto fellow is best knows as "Skyler" in the television show "Heroes." I am curious if he can get beyond the creepiness of that character.

Also, I wanna see if John Cho can make me forget "Harold" in "Harold and Kumar."

Don't know Quinto or "Heroes," Padouk. But in the trailer he sure looks like a great Spock.

Jennifer Morrison from "House" is (very young) Kirk's mother. Bruce Greenwood, from lots of stuff (I, Robot), is Chritopher Pike.

Christopher Pike! I'm so excited. The last time I saw him he was in a bad way.

GWE. congratulations and good luck in your new position.

DotC just reminded me that my current Pontiac was made at the facility across the highway from where my parents lived - actually a Suzuki plant but now produces various cars.

Which leads to a question to bc - are there any vehicles that are not somehow intertwined with other corporations?

The Alexandria Imax is not an all that long walk from Old Town on an evening with nice weather, but the route is not the greatest for pedestrians. Better to hop onto metro and get off at the King St. station (the best places to eat/BPH are still a longish stroll, but a walk worthy route). So, so frenvious. Mr. F was just in that neighborhood for 3 solid weeks and didn't go to a single cultural event, not even in the popular culture arena.

Reconsidering declining an offer to borrow _Living with Eeyore_

A thousand pardons, I'm so revolting. Of course congrats to GWE!

Now wondering how long I can delay my job search since my current position will end on August 31 (sooner if I can find a replacement!).

Joel, is it confirmed that death occurs by cytokine storm and pneumonia like in SARS, hantavirus, or the 1918 Spanish Flu?

I'm looking at the stories out there and all they say is the symptoms are like regular flu-- unless it's lethal, I suppose.

Here ya are, Yoki:

http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/292px-Christopher_Pike,_The_Menagerie.jpg

Awwww. ftb, sorry to hear that.

Congratulations, gwe! I'll miss your stories about your cabin and the drive, and I'm sure you'll miss some of it too, but that is good news.

About that lubricant question: the Boy just read an adventure story where the teenage boy learning to live alone in the wilderness used fish oil from the fish he caught (usually risen to the top of the kettle) as fat for both cooking and everyday use (hide tanning, etc). Of course, we'd need a lot of fish.

Were I in DC I would gladly attend the Pretend Star Trek BPH but I admit I have no desire to see the movie. Spock and Kirk are frozen in time in my mind as Shatner and Nimoy in the TV series, and I'm comfortable with that.

The new Uhuru. Be still, my heart.

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Zoe_Saldana_3.jpg

Nice, Mudge, very nice.

I will admit I am in Ivansmom's company when it comes to Star Trek.

Bear grease.

I'm a bit disappointed - although maybe I'm being overly sensitive. Anyway, allow me to explain.

Laloomis uses the term "lifted" in relation to Joel's use of the quote in his bird flu article, and all of a sudden it's turned into an accusation of plagarism. Well, that's one way to read it, I guess. Another is, it's just an unfortunate choice of a word. Because the fact is, Joel's probably not going to be able to interview a doctor who treated people in 1918, and in order to quote him, he's going to have to take - or lift, or borrow, or what have you - the quote from somewhere else. It seems entirely possible to me that the quote sparked laloomis's interest, or memory, and she found where it came from. Maybe it's been other places. Maybe it's been a lot of other places. Without knowing her motivations, maybe we can refrain from putting words in her mouth, and maintain the civility and friendly tone that I've come to appreciate here.

Thanks 'mudge, for the Pike link.

re: IMAX

We're talking about the theater at the Hoffman Center, right? I didn't know that they had an IMAX, actually. Anyway, it's basically right across the street from the Eisenhower Metro station (one stop from the King St. station on the Yellow line). While it's certainly walkable from Old Town Alexandria, you might as well take the train.

tomsing, you are right, of course. "Lifted" may or may not connote plagiarism. I suspect that long and, sadly, often not positive experience with loomis's own writing caused many of us to read an intended specific reference to plagiarism, when that intent may not have been there. Loomis has good writing skills and her past choices of unfortunate words have all too often been deliberate.

Thank you for reminding us to rise above experience and assume the best about all of us.

Yes, Bob S., the Hoffman AMC apparently has an IMAX screen. Didn't see where we could pre-buy tickets, however.

Delurking to agree with tomsing--the fire against laloomis seems unnecessarily heavy today, though I admit I don't have long enough experience here to know what may have caused the initial antagonism between her and what seems like everyone else here.

Linda, I've read all your posts, so I expect that if I missed something it serves me right for believing someone who slept at a Holiday Inn last night. Next time I'll seek professional sources.

Hope no one minds if I break this Loomis-Fumus to offer this remembrance of times past:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acsmo1vCoiM

gwe, congrats on the new job!
will miss the reports from west by god but sounds like a great opportunity.

Hey, I personally defended Loomis earlier.

She's a cousin of mine, you know?

Ran across this on youtube the other day - my favorite Dave Matthews song -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRnpYdKYgZg

Schla & Tomsing, welcome, and please carry on boodling as normal; i.e. without reference to any topics that you dislike.

Oh, it's haiku time again. Wilbrodog?

-----

Ahem.

"Tail-flicking squirrel
Chatters jeers, brazen on grass--
One, two, TREE that rat!"

-Wilbrodog-

Thanks for the reality check, schala1. If you are new, you don't know the negativity and insults individuals here have endured from her. It has been her recurring theme for the whole time I've been associated with Achenblog, beginning the week of Hurricane Katrina in August 2005.

Haiku two:

Minnows sprout on ground;
sardine dining's not allowed.
Back to the rawhide.

-Wilbrodog-

Yanno, everyone has the right to their own opinion. I've been around a few years and am not a fan.

Schala1 & tomsing, please stick around, but let us know in about 6 months time where you stand. Thanks for boodling with us.

New boodlers keeping us on the prize of civility and conversation and common sense: Curtsy to y'all. Your tiaras and wands are in your lockers. And, we ALL wear the fairy godmother-princess of beauty garb on occasion. See the archives for the football tiaralopolloza.

GWE -- booya etc.

CPDotII, a geekiedot too, went to the early showing last week, saying the movie is a SF bon mot and worth the tix price.

Frosti -- just finished the online Little Dorrit finale. Splendid...although I do miss the drollness in the books. Up next week is Derek Jacobi in The Old Curiosity Shop... If that Eyore book is real then I need four copies forthwit and tootsweet. However, if I share them with the crew of blue donkeys in my herd, well, I shall be accused of Tiggeratude with a modicum of interferring Rabbit....

Online little Dorrit? No captioning, I presume?

CPDot2 already saw "Star Trek??????" WHERE?!!!?!??!?!?!???

*crawling under my desk and engaging in a little primal scream therapy*

Do unto others, and all that, right? Kill 'em with kindness?

Anyway, regarding platforms, most of the manufacturers share platforms across models and brands - compare the Infinity G35 with the Nissan 350Z, for example, or check out Ford's history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_platforms

No sense reinventing the wheel, and you get economies of scale. So I don't know that not developing Pontiac-specific platforms was the death knell. Actually, I'm going out on a limb and pegging the Pontiac Aztek as the beginning of the end. I remember watching Survivor when they debuted it, and thinking, "Ew."

I've been told the Public Health Agency of Canada will publish an advisory shortly on the Swine Fever thing. Not an inflammatory advisory BTW. Looks like it's been overblown quite a bit. The numbers are low. I'll post the link when it's official.

I need to find a way to introduce the Ménagerie as a fiscal dependent, or at least claim the medications cost in the Public Service Health Insurance Plan. Come on, over $200 for flea and heart worm prevention treatments? Maybe if I buy only the supersized doses and claim it for the kids it will work. We don't want the kids to be flea-ridden, right?

Where's the haiku where Wilbrodog gets that squirrel? Remember, squirrels are rats with pretty tails. You heard it here first. Well, probably not. But it is true.

Rabbits, by contrast, are not rats at all. Did I mention that while I was out of town recently Beatrice (our rabbit) opened her cage and went to wake up Ivansdad? I congratulated her on being such a smart rabbit. This was not Ivansdad's first reaction. I believe this was a fluke because she has not been able to repeat the feat, which is just as well. Nobody wants to be stalked by a lagomorph, not even a cute one.

Wawhide chomp gulp gone
I sulk on bed and dream of
wascally squiwwels...

- Wilbwodog-

tomsing, we've tried everything, and somewhat surprisingly, being nice is the least effective. I recommend ignoring. Scroll on by.

I'm trying not to panic about the swine flu (Joel, you're not helping), but I did just email my son, who's in his 20s and not likely to watch the news. And I'm sucking Vitamin C drops because all this attention to it has my throat feeling scritchy...At least I hope that's why...

I want a bunny
To stalk me with twitching hops.
Lagomorph smell, mmmm...

-Wilbrodog-

Shriek, I read your post too quickly and thought wow our Public servants are trying to claim what on their health care expenses - then I remembered it is time for dmddog to have an annual Vet check up and realized what you were talking about.

Note to self look at full word before moving on :-)

Something about this headline seems vaguely familiar!!

"Police fire pellets at Kent State rioters"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/26/AR2009042600872.html?hpid=sec-nation

Ivansmom, sertainly no one who doubts their courage or their strength. They should come no further, for death awaits them all with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

*overly emotive sharp-teeth motions*

Wilbwodog, youw poetwy weminds me gweatly of sevewal of my favowites, such as Wimbaud and Baudewaire.

SCC: certainly

BTW, Wilbwodog, I wong to hear you use the wowds "Swine Fwu" in a pome.

There you go.
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/swine-porcine/faq_rg_swine-eng.php
Good:
"Laboratory tests from the first cases indicate that this strain of human swine influenza is susceptible to the antivirals we have in the stockpiles" note-tamiflu-
Crap:
"This year’s annual influenza immunization, or flu shot, protects against the human strain of H1N1 influenza. The human swine influenza H1N1 strain is different than the human strain. It is unlikely that the seasonal flu shot will provide protection against human swine influenza. The flu shot will protect against the seasonal flu, which is still circulating in Mexico."
Also, don't go to texas, sunny california of Gotham city if you ain't forced to:
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/tmp-pmv/2009/swine_flu_cal-tex-090427-eng.php

and from our southern friend at the CDCp, only 40 cases total.
http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/index.htm

Exactly, scottynuke. They even put it in a movie - the horror scene.

bobsewell, I was teaching a Kent State case today, which meant reminding my students about the Vietnam War and protests, etc., and one of them mentioned this. All I could say was that at least this time they used rubber bullets.

I foresee a series of public service announcements with Porky the Pig and Elmer Fudd: "Bewawe of swine fwu!"

Actually "swine fwu" has a martial arts ring to it. We need Jackie Chan and those kung fu artists for this series. Stamp out swine flu with swine fwu.

Beneath gween lindens
cawwying scents of nuts and twees
I quiver-- squiwwels ....

-Wilbwodog-

Ivansmom, how did your students react to hearing about Kent State? Man, that was almost 40 years ago now.

Twiwl that swine fwu
in wungs (chop-chop!)then eye-poke
Foe squeaws wike pig...

-Wilbwodog-

God loves us so much more than we can imagine through Him that died for all, Jesus Christ.

Hello, friends. GWE, so glad you got another job.

I'm so afraid of the swine flu, and my throat is sore. I hope it's just nerves. If I'm not feeling better, I'm heading to the doctor's office.

I've never owned a Pointiac, but lots of my friends have, especially the guys. A lot of people will probably lose their jobs because of this?

Yoki, Mudge, Scotty, Martooni, Slyness, and everyone here, hope your evening is good.*waving*

Thanks for the information about swine flu Science Tim and Mudge.

You know I hate to cwiticize, Wilbwodog, but wouldn't that be:

"Beneath gween windens..."?

Congrats, gwe!

Oh, and I meant to point out this link to an article about David Kessler (former FDA head), in his investigation about food and overeating:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/26/AR2009042602711.html?hpid=sec-health

Some great lines, including:
"If anyone noticed the man foraging through the trash, they would have assumed he was a vagrant. Except he was wearing black dress slacks and padded gardening gloves. "I'm surprised he didn't wear a tie," his wife said dryly. "

Oui, and... Quivew?

Wilbwodog

I was astonished, pj, that they had actually heard something about it. Remember this is an 8 am law school class, so their big visible reaction is nods, smiles, head shakes as appropriate. There were nods of recognition and head shakes for the activity. I try to give them a sense of how the world felt at these times.

Specifically I tried to convey how shocking this was, to fire on unarmed students - in much the same way as when I talked about the early Civil Rights era and what happened when ordinary people saw pictures of folks who looked like them turning guns and hoses on unarmed folks who did not. Egregious actions combined with visual images change the world, time after time, and then we take it all for granted. Over and over.

ScottyN,

Mea cupla times sideways eight (as in some very many cups of tea)

Some sort of Facebook marketing experience, with UMD ties resulted in a midnight showing last weekend. Sorry this is painful or makes you salivate so :)

seasea... I emailed my son, too! Funny thing being a mom, isn't it? "Wash your hands young man!"

I feel swiny, just like I knew I winy,
So swiny, all winy
Yahg!

Faxing ScottyNuke my StarTrek Action figures circa 2001; No boxes, so you cannot sell them on Ebay for top dinero.

97 degrees today in the back yard...wow. I think this is a record but I have not hear reports from the local airports yet....

Almost 30C here. I truly feel winy. Vewwy vewwi winy.

I sent my kids off to school with new travel sized hand sanitizers and a reminder to wash their hands well.

81F outside right now.

TBG, ha! I told him I was having a "mom moment". He can be oblivious to these things, though. And when he had appendicitis, he waited 3 days till he went to the hospital, so his track record is not good. But I didn't point that out.

Tthe 4 main points to remember to prevent a pandemic
-Wash your hands (a few times a day is OK, 30 times is sick)
-Practice proper cough and sneeze etiquette (I'm not going there, I do own a dogue de bordeaux. Dog drool would be a good room temperature lubricant. It would dry up at high temps and freezes over at low temp but an AR15 dripping with dog drool has some appeal)
-Try to avoid close contact with sick people (physically sick peoples, nutjobs are OK)
-Monitor your health ( not too closely, please, that is a disease too)

WB -- I checked on the MP Theater site and do not find information on captions. Sorry about that. I did, however, email the local PBS station asking about that option.

In other ephemera, I am reading William Vaughan's Golden Grove.

He claims that those who raise rents beyond the means of farmers to pay are "atheists"; those who enclose commons are also such.

Please note that atheist in that day, also meant one who lived as if God's laws did not apply.

WV (Welsh but helped found NewfoundLand) lived between 1577 and 1641.

I am not reading him to do battle with Christopher Hitchens. I am reading him to understand when oh when did economic growth become such a watch word of unexamined ticketyboo goodness for all.

If I have to explain ticketeyboo, well there is now help for that....

no help
no help
no help

tickety boo, tickety boo, tickety boo

to water the wilting pwants and perworm ablutions ower the tuwips who have waded waded wanewike into past bwooming

For those who are interested in such things, the letter containing the "Mahogany spots... Cyanosis" passage was published in the British Medical Journal of 22-29 December 1979.
[ reference here: http://www.bmj.com/content/vol2/issue6205/
It's the eighth item from the bottom of the page. Free registration required to view the .pdf file. ]

It was provided to the BMJ by N.R. Grist of the University of Glasgow, not written by him. He indicates that, "It was found in a trunk in Detroit among other medical papers handed to the department of epidemiology of the University of Michigan." He had been given a copy of the letter in 1959 by Dr. Thomas Francis, Jr., who was the founding head of that department.

Thanks for doing all the heavy lifting, Bob.

Ivansmom -- I remember the Kent State shootings as if it were yesterday. Those were, perhaps, the "interesting times" in which the Chinese admonish us to live. And there were many of us who did. So much of this even relatively "recent" history seems to have been tucked away somewhere, evidenced by "what did you do before computers were invented?" or "what do you mean, there were no cars when you were born?" [the second one as homage to my own late Mum and Pup]. Ah, the demise of institutional history. . . .

I've spent some time trying, without success, to find a pleading I had written a couple of years ago in a copyright infringement case, which would directly address the issue, based upon cases from the late 1700s and early 1800s. I remember I put that language in a footnote and I'll be danged if I can't find it. I'll keep looking, tho, and see if I can fish it up from the deep recesses of my computer. The language was superb (which is why I used it in the pleading, yanno).

And, gwe, ftb here is enormously thrilled for your getting your job (would jump up and down if the knee would let me, so you know why I won't but would if I could).

Mr. T had a meeting on the tenth floor of the government center this afternoon. When it was over, the elevator was full of folks ending their day. He said one person had a coughing fit and apologized, saying that he just got home from Mexico. Everybody laughed, after taking a moment for that to sink in.

CqP, I bought a sage plant at the grocery store this morning and thought about you. This Thanksgiving, I'll pick my own and not have to buy any! Also bought a rosemary to replace the one I drowned. I'll go plant them when the sun has passed over the herb garden. It's next to the zinneas, which are germinating. The anemones and bells of Ireland haven't, yet.

Let me just say something completely off topic... I LOVE being a mom to teenagers! Why didn't anyone tell me they'd be so much fun to have around?

Wow bobsewell. I am very impressed that you found that reference.

Why TBG! EYE told you that very thing! They're awesome, aren't they? After all the horrors foretold, I found it the most fun phase of all (yet).

Shrieking

You cracked me up with your 5:19 comment. Dog drool as lubricant doesn't sound too farfetched, although the smell may be more than one would care for. I hope we can all laugh and not cry at swine flu. I prayed Sunday at church for my church family, and for people all over the world, something I suspect all of us might need to do before this is over with.

Ivansmom, I thought about how my cats used to wake me up for their morning meal by licking my head or face when reading your comment about Bernice.

Is Fox News on an "all and out war" with President Obama? I know these folks have different political persuasions, but are the gloves coming off? Of course, depending on how swine flu impacts the world, they may lose some of that heat. But then, they would probably blame the President for that too. And some nut job would believe them.

slyness, I don't know if CqP told you, but plant the sage a little off from everything else. It molds and dies easily if wet leaves drip on or brush against it. YMMV, but the sage I have at the corner of the garden always does fine. Regular-sized sage is hardier than dwarf.

It also looks wonderful in a bouquet with zinnias, basil(s), mint, lavender and pineapple sage with little tendrils of oregano falling down the sides.

The garden guy told me next week for planting zinnias around here. Can't wait.

Also in frenvious awe of your ability to start from seed. I haven't the touch.

::kof kof:: "Just got back from Mexico"

BWA HA HA! ! ! Thx, slyness.

I am sick of the swine flu! NPR won't shut up about it ... even as they report that there are 40 cases in the US, 28 in NYC.

Ooh, didn't know that about sage, dbG. Fortunately, I did put it at the edge of the bed, but I'll watch it carefully. It's no big deal if it dies, but I'd sure like to have some for Thanksgiving.

Zinnias I can get to grow from seed. Bells of Ireland, too. I sow cosmos and the earwigs eat them as they sprout, d@mn it. My mother's clematis is dead from earwig damage.

The Lady Banks rose is just beyond full bloom, and my grandmother's rose is starting to bloom all over. The columbines are still pretty though past peak, but the irises and dianthus are popping. There's color on the rhododendron, they will be lovely by the weekend, I think. The daylilies look good, no buds just yet. I'm so glad it's spring!

On today's kit, for grins and giggles:

http://www.xkcd.com/

Thanks, Slyness.

Ivansmom, I'm glad they know about Kent State. James Michener wrote a book about it shortly thereafter. A long, long book, as I recall, and not bad for book-length journalism. But whenever I think of it, the first thing that goes through my mind is the Neil Young guitar figure opening of CSN&Y's "Ohio" which I heard many, many times that spring.

I'm happy to make you smile Cassandra. The drool doesn't smell that bad but if it weren't stuck on the ceiling it would be easier to clean up. The visit to the vet wasn't smooth today, the VLP made his mark.
He didn't kill or maim the 2 little dogs that went his way, so we should be thankful for something. But the little dog masters may rot in heck, they took unnessary risk.
I'm a pandemic skeptic, a boss of mine spent his last 18 months in office mulling over the big one. We'll know it when we get it, there's no point speculating about it. Or, as it is known now, blogging about it.

Even better yet, knowledgeable people are on the case as well. Follow what the CDCp and the PHAC say and you'll be informed, not rumored.

I still don't get the decision to keep Buick. I can't recall the last time I saw one on the road. I had to think a bit to even name a Buick model and only came up with the Enclave, and SUVs are harder to sell than plane tickets to Mexico City right now.

Well, ladies and germs, we seem to have stumbled upon a minor discrepancy in the scholarship here regarding the Grist letter.

As loomis said high above, the quotation appears in Barry's "The Great Influenza," p. 187, and Barry cites the British Medical Journal as the source of the Grist letter. However, in the text itself, Barry says that it was Grist himself who wrote the letter (with the quoted material), not that he found it and handed it in.

Barry says:

For this was no ordinary pneumonia. Dr. Roy Grist, one of the army physicians at the hospital [at Camp Devens, 30 miles west of Boston], wrote a colleague, "These men start with what appears to be an ordinary attack of LaGrippe or Influenza..." etc., with the Mahogany spots and Cyanosis remarks follwoing. In other words, Barry claims Grist's usual name was Roy. Now, we know his initials are N.R. Grist, but we don't immediately know what N. R. stands for.

OK, here's where it gets interesting. What Bob posted above is this: "It was provided to the BMJ by N.R. Grist of the University of Glasgow, not written by him. He indicates that, "It was found in a trunk in Detroit among other medical papers handed to the department of epidemiology of the University of Michigan." He had been given a copy of the letter in 1959 by Dr. Thomas Francis, Jr., who was the founding head of that department."

So according to this, Grist isn't a doc at Camp devens; he's a doc at U of Glasgow, and was working in 1959, not 1918. Coincidentally this Grist has the middle initial R, which is making things confusing.

Now, in 1999 a woman named Gina Kolata published a quite excellent book called "Flu," also about the 1918 Spanish flu. Kolata is a science reporter for the NYT, so thuink of her as approximately the NYT equivalent of our own you-know-who. She's written six books. Here's what Kolata wrote, beginning on page 13 of "Flu": [all that follows is quote except stuff in brackets]

That same day [Sept. 8], the flu appeared in Fort [sic] Devens, Massachusetts, thirty miles west of Boston.

Overnight, Fort devens became a scene out of hell. One doctor, assigned to work in the camp that September, wrote despairingly to a friend about the epidemic that was out of control. The doctor's letter is dated September 29, 1918, signed with his first name, "Roy." Nothing more is known about who he was or what became of him. His letter was discovered more than sixty years later, in a trunk in Detroit, and was published in the *British Medical Journal* in December 1979, having been sent in by a Scottish doctor, N. R. Grist of the University of Glasgow, who saw it as a cautionary tale.

more

2

Roy wrote: "Camp [sic, and probably correct, not "Fort"] Devens is near Boston, and has about 50,000 men, or did before the epidemic broke loose." The flu epidemic hit the camp four weeks earlier, he added, "and has developed so rapidly that the camp is demoralized and all ordinary work is held up till it has passed. All assemblages of soldiers are taboo."

The disease starts out looking like an ordinary sort of influenza, Roy explained, But when the soldiersIt was provided to the BMJ by N.R. Grist of the University of Glasgow, not written by him. He indicates that, "It was found in a trunk in Detroit among other medical papers handed to the department of epidemiology of the University of Michigan." He had been given a copy of the letter in 1959 by Dr. Thomas Francis, Jr., who was the founding head of that department. are brought to the hospital at the Army base, they "rapidly develop the most viscous type of Pneumonia that has ever been seen. Two hours after admission they have the Mahogany spots over the cheekbones and a few hours later you can begin to see the Cyanosis extending from the ears and spreading all over the face, until it is hard to distinguish the colored man from the white. It is only a matter of a few hours then until death comes and it is simply a struggle for air until they suffocate. It is horrible. One can stand to see one, two, or twenty men die, but to see these poor devils dropping like flies gets on your nerves. We have been averaging about 100 deaths a day, and still keeping it up."

-------------------

Roy goes on to describe the problem of not enough coffins, but that's pretty much tghe last we hear from poor Roy in Kolata's book.

This is exactly the material covered in Barry's book, and Barry continues to quote the letter about the coffins and such, and adds some other heart-rending details:

[quoting from Roy's letter in Barry's book]:

We have lost an outrageous number of Nurses and Drs., and the little town of Ayre is a sight. It takes special trains to carry away the dead. For several days there were no coffins and the bodies piled up something fierce...It beats any sight they ever had in France after a battle [actually probably not true, but Roy wouldn't know that, and is excused for thinking such]. An extra long barracks [sic] has been vacated for the use of the Morgue, and it would make any man sit up and take notice to walk down the long lines od dead soldiers all dressed and laid out in double rows...Good By old Pal, God be with you till we meet again."

more

Booyah5000, in re: Buick, think this legal concept: Goodwill.

3rd and last

OK, what we have here is the likelihood that Kolata and Bob's source are correct, that Grist did NOT write the letter, since he appears to be alive and working in 1959, and that Barry got confused with his source when he wrote his book. (But maybe not.) We cannot know the answer to this without seeing the actual source material itself; we cannot solve it conclusively here.

For my money, poor Roy probably died at Camp Devens, and never saw his old Pal who received that letter.

But the overriding lesson is that the Grist letter is well known, and Joel could have referenced it from a number of sources, possibly including Alfred Crosby's book as well (Crosby also wrote a very well known, comprehensive book on the 1918 flu, but I don't have it immediately to hand to check).

dbG, the magic words for starting seeds: heating mat. I've had great success with my $30 setup of a heating mat and fluorescent light. And of course, it depends on the seeds - some are easier than others. Some have to be soaked overnight, some need light to germinate, some do better directly in the ground. And having said all that, the tomatoes I sprouted haven't grown all that well - hope they take off soon. I'm also having a heck of a time germinating Marvel of Peru, not sure why.

I've got some irises with flower buds, and some clematis about to flower, and a noisette rose too. So, so glad spring is here.

The suicide of the commander of Camp Grant, Col. Charles Hagadorn, is in Barry's book, page 219. It does not appear in Kolata's book.

Hagadorn took command of Camp Grant in August, 1918. In njune it had 30,000 troops there, but due to the war effort it was over 40,000 when Hagadorn got there. Because of the overcrowding a lot of the men lived in tents. This was OK during the summer in northern illinois 9a hunred miles from Great Lakes Naval Training Center, still there today), but with winter coming on Hagadorn deliberately ignored Army regulations, and in mid-September moved men from the tents into the already crowded barracks. Thus, he willfully increased the overcrowding, but did so for what he thought were good humane reasons, albeit in defiance of regulations. Hagadorn and the medical staff had all received warnings about the flu coming, and they even knew when and why: they'd just received a batch of officers from Camp Devens.

The docs rebelled, and had a big argument with Hagadorn, but he had the rank and he prevailed. One day later, the first cases of flu hit the camp. By midnight 108 men were in the hospital quarantine ward. The next day 194, the day after 371, on the fourth day 711 were admitted and the first soldier died. By the sixth day 4,102 men were in the hospital.

On Oct. 4, over 100 died in a single day. Three days later it was up to 500 dead in a single day, and a troop train Hagadorn had sent to Georgeia with 3,100 healthy men arrived with more than 700 sick. The chief medical doc reported the death toll to Hagadorn. Hagadorn nodded. A few minutes later he order all the staff in his nheadquarters building to evacuate, and to go outside for an inspection. They waited outside for half an hour, then heard the pistol shot.

Camp Devens was established in 1917, in 1931 it was designated a permanent Army post and thus became Fort Devens. It was closed in '95 under BRAC (base realignment and closure)thus giving some soldiers and their families an early taste of what it's like to not be able to sell a house, or lose a lot of money on one.

Well, Himself and I sold our house today! Depending on your view of the world, we either lost about 150,000 on the deal in the last two years, or made about 150,000 over what we paid for it. I'm in the optimistic camp.

Go Yoki!

Yoki,
To be ahead at all is wonderful. Congratulations on the sale.

That's what I think too, DoC! Very happy.

tomsing - I simply asked a direct question about what laloomis meant by her use of the word "lifted" with her 2:05 PM, that's all. I do get paid to write (I daresay it's not my profession my any means, as you can probably tell), and if someone used that word with regards to anything I'd written, it'd get *my* hackles up -- so I felt compelled to ask.

And I appreciate bobs' and Mudge's homework on the question as well.

I wasn't suggesting that GM's decision to bring in products build from other GM division's platforms was the death knell for Pontiac, but the idea that perhaps GM did not see that brand as worthy of investment for a dedicated platform - as Cadillac has with the new CTS or Chevy with the new Camaro and the Volt - and that may have been an indicator of the value the corporation placed in it.

dmd2, all those brands I mentioned - Opel, Holden, etc. - are not individual corporations, but are brands of the General Motors corporation. And some platforms and components are shared amongst the GM siblings, some aren't, just as just about every other car company does to one degree or another, as tomsing points out. Typically, though, each brand of any auto company has a unique platform or two that isn't shared. When the parent corp won't invest in brand-specific platforms, I typically begin to get suspicious about that brand's long term viability. The next two I see GM cutting loose are Saturn and Hummer (the original dedicated H1 platform is discontinued, and the newer Hummer chassis are shared with other GM truck products, IIRC). But neither would be a surprise at this point, even without knowing the platform stuff.

My throat's hurting today, too, probably because the oak pollen count seems to be off the scale. The air feels like it's saturated to the point of being an abrasive.

bc

Portentous voice-over

Or... is it swine 'flu?

OK. I just wish the Flames would stay out of the playoffs.

I'm so ashamed.

Evening all
Thanks for all the well wishes on my new job,I am happy and a little sad as well.But it is a new adventure and I look forward to it.

Yoki congrats on your sale and sorry about your Flames. Perhaps next year.

You know, it may have been Dr. Roy D. Hensel writing to Dr. Burt Shurly...

Or perhaps one of these sources...too bad news articles don't come with footnotes, eh?

http://www.nieman.harvard.edu/reportsitem.aspx?id=100374

Joel:
"Not until 1930 did scientists manage to isolate an influenza virus."

This brief Encyclopedia Britannica summary for Thomas Francis Jr. has Francis isolating Influenza A in 1934. This is the same Influenza Francis who turned over the "Roy" letter to Glasgow's Grist, according to Boodler Bob.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/216653/Thomas-Francis-Jr

Yay, Yoki! Sounds like a case for optimism.

Shrieking, sometimes I think the owners of small dogs depend too much on the (supposed) better temperament of larger dogs. There are always Yorkies, etc., running out to the middle of the street to hurl insults at us when I walk my dogz. Now? No big deal (wait, wait, iz that a DOG, no, really?). When my GSD was alive, not a good idea.

bc - You still have air mixed with the pollen in your neighborhood? Man, what we'd be willing to pay for a little air over here!

Basically, we have to mix pollen with our own urine, boil it, and try to catch a breath from the bubbles.

bobsewell says : Those body temperature scanners at the airport are used primarily as part of the android-detection program, aren't they?

It’s quite possible they are. And the authorities are stepping up the exercise. Today’s newspaper reports all Gov’ts in these parts are installing scanners in the airports.

Norman (Roy!) Grist is absolutely, without question, a well-regarded, widely published epidemiologist kinda guy who was born in 1918, and for *darned* sure didn't write "the letter".

http://www.universitystory.gla.ac.uk/biography/?id=WH4507&type=P

He's credited in more published work than you can shake a stick at:
( https://www.researchgate.net/author/N+R+Grist/1 ) and referenced in even more.

I'm willing to trust his account of how he came across the letter. What the letter was doing between 1918 & 1959 is anyone's guess, I guess.

rainforest - This is exactly how it starts! They distract us from the android danger with a multi-species flu strain...

As usual, Weingarten missed asking the obvious (android danger) question in his latest poll, which is about the flu.

The good thing about working in the middle of the night is the ability to go back to bed. 'Night all.

There's Canadian bacon, multigrain Thomas' English Muffins, juice, green iced tea, eggs and egg whites in a carton (why did I suddenly think of the VLP?) and lowfat Jarlesberg in the fridge. No doubt Yoki can make some sense out of all that.

And now, I'm on vacation again for the rest of the day!

Wait... This Grist guy was supposedly born in 1918, and yet has co-authored published work as recently as a few years ago. His middle name is Roy, the letter's signed by Roy. The "recent" Grist writes as if he's intimately familiar with infectious disease, yet keeps plugging along as if he's immortal.

This android thing is sounding more likely all the time!

'xatly (android thing), bob.

Thanks, dbG. Can we please also have the normal white English Muffins? And crumpets, too? I’m not much into multigrain stuff. I’m more into those "Styrofoam" stuff.

God loves us so much more than we can imagine through Him that died for all, Jesus Christ.

Good morning, friends. We have to get dressed for school this morning. I'm on my way to the bathtub and the other little person is still sleeping. I really hate to wake her.

Yoki, congrats on the sell. Mudge, Scotty, Martooni, Slyness, and everyone here, have a fantastic day. *waving*

Well, the only conversation on the news is swine flu, and I don't need bad news to get nervous, my thoughts will basically do that job. I do hope the health folks get a handle on this.

Have a date at laundry room. Time to get cracking. I so want to go back to bed and just pull the covers up and sleep. Oh, well, maybe later.

Ham biscuits are ready, and all with homemade bread. Cold orange juice, and plenty of coffee. Enjoy.

'Morning, Boodle. Wow, both dbG and Cassandra have breakfast waiting for us in the Ready Room! Ham biscuits with homemade bread, Canadian bacon and egg whites, Thomas's English muffins (at least one "reg'lar" one for rainforest). What more could a Dawn Patrol want?

Bob, looks like we (you) have spotted an error in Barry's book.

More swinish flu on the WaPo home page. I'm all swine flu'ed out already. Here's today's diversion. Yup, it's Mutiny on the Bounty Day!

***********
Today in Nautical and Aviation History

April 28, 1784: French aeronautical investigators Launoy and Bienvenu demonstrate the first working model of a helicopter, which has at each end of its fuselage a two-bladed propeller driven by a bowdrill system.
1789: Lt. Fletcher Christian and companions decide to mutiny, taking over transport ship HMS Bounty (Capt. William Bligh) near Tofua in the Friendly Islands. The mutineers put Bligh and 18 loyal crew in a 23-foot open boat, the start of Bligh’s epic 2,618-mile journey to Timor in 62 days. Christian takes the Bounty to Tahiti and then finally to Pitcairn Island.
**********

You people are really spoiling me with breakfast! Keep it up, please! :-)

Yoki, I'm glad to hear the house is sold. That's a significant accomplishment in today's economy, as well as a relief, I'm sure.

Looks like swine flu is all over this morning; today's headline in the local paper says it's suspected in both Carolinas. I already wash my hands at least 15 times a day, I suppose I'll have to keep it up.

No trips to Mexico in the near future for me, thank heavens.

Morning all. Going to be another scorching hot day down here in the Old Dominion. Fortunately, I will be spending it in windowless laboratory deep in the bowels of the earth.

Yay.

Let me stress my support for bc regarding his umbrage with the term "lifting." This, to me, is a very provocative word in this context. If the intent wasn't to imply something a little sordid, then what was the intent of the post?

Well, enough.

I am hopeful that this swine flu business will be successfully contained. Of course, as I type this I cannot help but note that my boss is doing *quite* a lot of coughing in her office. Hmm.

Yoki congratulations on selling the house - wonderful news.

Raining softly here but still warm - higher temps forcing all the trees to leave out rapidly.

'morning all. We are still in Summer this morning but Ugly Spring is supposed to make a comeback later in the day. Ouach.

All this swine talk is making me hungry for bacon.

Good morning, Boodle.

Morning air here acquiring an icy quality. But afternoons are still shirt sleevers.

Have a great day everyone.

Brag

GWE, wonderful news, congratulations. Yoki, congrats to you also, that's a great outcome in this economy.

They're promising temps near 90 today but I bet we stay in the lower 80's here near the ocean. It's been a great preview of summer lately. I realize we need to be aware of this swine flu but I do think that the media are being a bit over the top about it all. Common sense about hygiene could go a long way to keep things under control. Happy day all.

Hey Scotty, gotta love those Sox lately!!

Good morning all. Back from my trip to the Big City. Driving home late last night, once I got away from the city lights, the moon (a mere sliver) was so red it was barely visible through my yellow windshield.

gwe, congrats on the new job. You know I'll miss you not being in WBG the most.

Mudge, your Skin So Soft references cracked me up. Every now and again, you say something that catches my completely off guard. Such the Renaissance Man. I am impressed.

bc, who knew you looked at my reading materials? I thought your view of me started at my shoes, and stopped right there. And way impressed that you remembered PBK.

Sorry to have hit-and-run yesterday. I appreciate the back-up, especially those who defended me against the personal attack from laloomis. Which reminds me, laloomis, I don't give a rat's butt what you think of me. I generally find the high road to be traffic-free and therefore the route of choice, but as you found it appropriate to air your opinions of me here on the boodle, and as I've been practicing standing up for myself like I do others, let me tell you what I think of you: I find your world-view rather limited (and not by geography), and I don't perceive you to be a deep thinker. (You had to look up cyanosis? You didn't get the root word, cyan, and know that it means blue? I never had the big box of crayons but knew cyan.) I think you've got a decent memory, and can research and regurgitate like nobody's business, but I find your application of the information gleaned superficial, ego- and ethnocentric. Want to attack me on a personal level again? I can take it, and dish it back.

Moving on...
About the Imax in Old Town VA, it's across the street from the Eisenhower Avenue metro station (yellow line?). A bit of a hike into Old Town proper, but you can always get back on the Metro and off again at King Street. Then it's only a four or 5 block walk into the heart of Old Town. Downtown Bethesda (not White Flint) is more pedestrian-friendly.

Cassandra, ham biscuits sounds wonderful. And I'll bet yours are out of this world.

Off to see what happened here yesterday. Hopefully, nothing crazy, and I'll be able to pop in from time to time today. Have a happy day all.

Sorry Yoki. Forgot to add...congrats on selling the house...no easy feat in this market. And I like your take...up 150. Any thoughts on how to spend the dough?

Indeed, Sneaks!! :-)

I really, really wanted to join the Dawn Patrol this morning, but the 170 extra people trying to climb onto the Sopwith just wouldn't work. Must have been an offshoot of yesterday's Afternoon Patrol, when not one, but TWO separate mechanical breakdowns led to trying to pack several hundred people into one of the last flights of the day. Always nice to get home more than two hours late. *SIGH*

*not-looking-forward-to-this-afternoon-but-whadda-ya-gonna-do Grover waves* :-)

New KIT!

Let's look at the full text of the "Roy" letter from Camp Devens and tease out the important clues.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/influenza/sfeature/devens.html

The lead-in provided by PBS is that this is a letter from one physician to another.

Author Roy assumes that the recipient Burt could possibly be assigned to Camp Devens for duty.

The doctor is obviously from Detroit, and is familiar with past cases of pneumonia in Detroit, although they have been few. Who is Artie Ogle, though--given the mention of an ear problem? The phrase "As you know..." makes me think that the friendship goes back for some time, and both are familiar with Detroit and/or Roy's practice of medicine in Detroit.

Roy appears to be the only physician assigned to Devens who is on permanent duty, the rest being temporarily assigned. There is a brief mention of France and the scene of death after a battle.

On to what I found very late last night--and the questions that remain to be answered. It's important to remember that the world was a much smaller place in 1918, as John M. Barry points out in his book and in his op-ed yesterday at the New York Times. I highly recommend the op-ed since it covers some important points that Barry makes in "The Great Influenza. The study of medicine was not as advanced, nor was the administration of public health.