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Teddy Kennedy

Another day, another death, another reason to feel a lot older.

Teddy Kennedy used to be the young one. The baby of his generation. He had three older brothers, yet through one tragedy after another found himself the patriarch of the clan. It's not tragic when you die of natural causes at 77 -- but it's still a sad event, for he had a lot of fire left in him, more legislation to craft, and could have played a key role in the health-care battle that is consuming Washington.

The comments online today -- spitwadded onto our news stories -- are in many cases vile and hateful, as we've come to expect. Who are these people? I don't know people who, upon hearing of someone's death, express glee and hurl the most venomous slanders they can think of. Maybe it's all the same person! One guy, in a cave, marinating in his poison.

Yes, Teddy was polarizing, but not so much where he worked, the U.S. Senate. For example, Orrin Hatch, an ardent conservative, praised Kennedy profusely this morning, noting that Kennedy was always willing to compromise to advance a piece of legislation. That's a dying art. We need more Ted Kennedys in government.

Sometimes those compromises backfired. Kennedy felt burned by No Child Left Behind, which he supported. But the health-care battle is precisely the kind of complex legislation for which compromise is the only path to passage. I hope that the senator in his last weeks wasn't watching those town halls on cable TV. (Where are the people raging and fuming and sputtering in favor of a health care bill?)

Teddy Kennedy was also devoted to his family, including three kids, grandkids, lots of nephews and nieces, grand-nephews and grand-nieces -- the ultimate clan. Folks who've been there tell stories of Kennedy lording over a party, wearing a costume, making toasts for the ages. The public didn't get to see that side of Kennedy.

For much of his life, it seemed like Teddy would be judged by whether he became president. He was supposed to, sort of. The presidency was all teed up for him. But things didn't work out that way. Instead he became one of the great senators in American history. A great American.Teddy, R.I.P.


Now, about those comments...

Tomtildrum writes in the boodle: "Joel, I'm guessing that you don't read the comments that crop up whenever a prominent conservative dies. This isn't a new or unique phenomenon; it's just that it only gets noticed when the deceased is someone who was well-liked at the Post."

Dear Tomtildrum: If you look through the comments on this blog -- there have been a couple of hundred thousand in the past 5 years -- you will not find any, I hope, that say hateful things about the recently deceased, regardless of party or ideology. I find that hateful stuff repugnant. I know the boodlers do too. I remember when Tony Snow announced that he had cancer (which would eventually take his life), someone posted a comment saying he hoped Snow's family would be killed in a car crash on the way to the funeral. That kind of stuff poisons the Web and makes me want to run screaming back to something safe and edited, like a printed newspaper or magazine or book. It's only been in the last few years that articles on this site have permitted reader comments. It remains a thorny issue and the subject of much internal debate.

Next ... Ronjaboy writes: "He was a great champion of legislation and causes from which he and his family would be exempt; e.g., gun control that would disarm us while he lived in priviliged neighborhoods and could afford bodyguards; estate taxes for the rest of us while he was heir to a bootleggers fortune nor will his estate pay any; showing the courage and integrity of a wharf rat when faced with a decision between his political life and someone else's coporeal life. he was morally challenged, intellectually dishonest and politically vile. That's why."

Dear Ronjaboy: I'm having a hard time getting past your first sentence -- I am pretty sure that the Kennedys have never felt that having bodyguards makes them safe from gun violence.

By Joel Achenbach  |  August 26, 2009; 8:11 AM ET
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Next: Kennedy, Obama and the Passion Gap


Well said, Joel.

Posted by: Moose13 | August 26, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, NCLB burned a lot of educators too.

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | August 26, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

I have no memory of a world in which Ted Kennedy wasn't an important politician. He had Presence. And although there was plenty of warning, it's still very hard to imagine him gone.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | August 26, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

What a crock...he annulled his first marriage making his kids bastards - so much for being a "family man"; had an "accident" and then deliberately left the scene letting a lady drown to death - the Kennedy money and lawyers got him out of that; had to get his father to get him out of a 3 year military commitment (never rose above Pvt...) - if there had not been a Joe, Jack or Robert, Ted would have been politically invisible!

Posted by: us1156 | August 26, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

I hope the bunker's air conditioning is working. It's going to be a long day.

Posted by: badsneakers | August 26, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

We better make sure the activated-charcoal air filters are installed, too... *SIGH*

Posted by: Scottynuke | August 26, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

This is what I don't get. I posted something at the end of the last thread about this spittle laden droppings. We are all born into this world with 5 cards dealt to us. We then have to play out the hand.

Can they see what is going on?

The very rich control what is happening to us. Nothing new. Kennedy should be remembered for what he tried to do for others. All this anger should be targeted towards those who are getting filthy rich or is it filthier rich off of something called national health care.

Ah well, it is comforting to know that the man who helped bring us Enron is helping to bring us United Healthcare, now. Again, we are distracted by those 49 million without health insurance right now, but when the lucky ones with employers who provide health insurance see what is coming down the pike for them (as if companies like UHC were popular before) in the way of co-pays, they will be shocked.

The majority of Americans who support a national system now will again grow in numbers.

I am, however, really appreciative of my father and mother making it through their lives as a couple. I can't imagine the shame I would have carried in my soul if I were a bastard.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Bunker is open and ready for business. Yep, the shop steward had the a/c serviced last week, Sneaks, so we are good to go. Also stocked up on the right kind of TP at Costco yesterday, per shop steward's instructions.

I hope us1156's comment will be an outlier. As I said in the previous boodle, may Congress pass a decent health insurance reform bill to honor his memory.

Posted by: slyness | August 26, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Howdy Boodle. I find Ted Kennedy's life interesting because in some ways it is a quintessential American story. He was, of course, fortunate in his birth, which always helps; but with that family's wealth and prominence also came sadness and tragedy. He had many failings and battled personal demons. His flaws affected the lives of others - from the permanence of death to lesser influences - in ways that must also have increased his own burdens. He spent great effort on a prize, a job, which eluded him. With all this, he accepted the public and private roles he had, worked hard, and tried to use his brains, power, money and influence for the greater good. He often succeeded. As Joel notes, he didn't let his own career or political passions prevent him from working with others for what he hoped to be the common good. I wonder whether his knowledge and, perhaps, acceptance of his own shortcomings helped him to respect and work with others.

Posted by: Ivansmom | August 26, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

He was a great champion of legislation and causes from which he and his family would be exempt; e.g., gun control that would disarm us while he lived in priviliged neighborhoods and could afford bodyguards; estate taxes for the rest of us while he was heir to a bootleggers fortune nor will his estate pay any; showing the courage and integrity of a wharf rat when faced with a decision between his political life and someone else's coporeal life. he was morally challenged, intellectually dishonest and politically vile. That's why.

Posted by: ronjaboy | August 26, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Oh yes, Front Page Alert deluxe...

Posted by: Scottynuke | August 26, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

'Morning, Boodle. Yes, glad the bunker is fully functional. The AC is fine, and we have new HEPA filters in place.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | August 26, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

I suspect, ronjaboy, that you will find some amount of dissonence between most politicians' private lives and their public policy advocacy. Republican senators wanting to deny health insurance reform to those without coverage while they themselves are insured comes to mind, for example.

I certainly hope that some day when you meet your maker, those left behind will choose to remember the good you did vs. the mistakes you made. At least for a day.

Posted by: Raysmom | August 26, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Reading random insults always make me imagine 13-year old boys with pizza acne staying home from school sick and crying just because they won't take grow-up pills.

None of the other major senators are saints. Tons of dirt on everybody in there, you just don't choose to look at them.

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | August 26, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Just fyi -- the Joe Kennedy bootlegger thing is a myth.

See this, from Arthur Schlesinger Jr:,2540,17,00.html

"An associated myth is that Joseph P. Kennedy made a deal in the winter of 1959-1960 with a Chicago gangster named Sam Giancana to use the Mafia and trade unions under Mafia control to turn out the Chicago vote for his son. The elder Kennedy, the story goes, was well acquainted with Mafiosi because he had been a bootlegger himself in Prohibition days 30 years before.

"It is true that Kennedy was a whiskey importer in the 1930s, but that was after repeal and entirely legal. During Prohibition, he had worked first as a broker for Hayden Stone and thereafter as a Wall Street speculator on his own. In the mid-1920s, he bought into a chain of movie theaters and soon went into film production. When would he have had time to be a bootlegger? Why would he have run the risk when he could make money easily and legally in Wall Street and Hollywood?"

Posted by: joelache | August 26, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Oh, brother! Please hand me a shovel.

Posted by: jezebel3 | August 26, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Thanks Joel.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

That was good, Raysmom. Thanks.

Posted by: -TBG- | August 26, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Raysmom, it is a slippery slope. First, health care, then we will all want free parking at the airport.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Joel, Wiki adds these refinements to the bootlegger claim:

"Allegedly these [investments] included bootlegging, the illegal importation of alcohol into the United States during Prohibition, though these allegations have never been proven.[1] (It has been substantiated that toward the end of Prohibition, Kennedy and James Roosevelt traveled to Scotland to buy distribution rights for Scotch whisky. In addition, Kennedy had purchased spirits-importation rights from Schenley, a firm in Canada.[2])

During World War I, he was an assistant general-manager of Bethlehem Steel and developed a friendship with Franklin D. Roosevelt, then Assistant Secretary of the Navy. Kennedy made huge profits from reorganizing and refinancing several Hollywood studios, ultimately merging several acquisitions into Radio-Keith-Orpheum (RKO) studios. After Prohibition ended in 1933, Kennedy consolidated an even larger fortune when his company, Somerset Importers, became the exclusive American agent for Gordon's Gin and Dewar's Scotch. He owned the largest office building in the country, Chicago's Merchandise Mart, giving his family an important base in that city and an alliance with the Irish-American political leadership there."

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | August 26, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

And ponies! I want my government-provided pony!

Posted by: Raysmom | August 26, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Joel, I'm guessing that you don't read the comments that crop up whenever a prominent conservative dies. This isn't a new or unique phenomenon; it's just that it only gets noticed when the deceased is someone who was well-liked at the Post.

Posted by: tomtildrum | August 26, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Next, I wait for Joel and Mudge to debunk those accusations about Harriman and Co.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

No dissonance. The Republicans aren't denying them health insurance, they're denying them health insurance paid by the government or heealth insurance designed to run insurance companies out of business.

Driving off a bridge at night is a mistake; taking off and leaving someone else to die is a deliberate act.

And no matter where his family fortune came from the upshot is he consistently supported legislation that would deny others the right to accumulate their own fortunes.

Posted by: ronjaboy | August 26, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Tom, do you know that the Post is run by a very conservative group?

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Ahem. I think I'm going to spend some time reading about Michael Jackson now. Anyone care to join me?

Posted by: -TBG- | August 26, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

In some interesting ways Edward Kennedy and George W. Bush were quite similar. Both were born into wealth and privilege and strong political connections. Both were mediocre students sliding through elite prep schools and Ivy League colleges on the family name. Both had lackluster military service carefully sheltered from actual combat by family influence. Both had brushes with the law which were hushed up or minimized. Both gained high elective office (initially at least) on the strength of their name rather than their personal accomplishments. Kennedy, however, was touched by death in ways that Bush never was. By the time he reached his 38th birthday, Ted Kennedy had lost his father, three brothers, a sister, and been involved in the drowning death of Mary Jo Kopechne. In less than a decade he went from the baby brother of the family to being the only male member, father figure to 13 of his brothers' children, prop to his 79 year old mother, and heir to the family political legacy- which he then tainted with his behavior on Chappaquiddick. I think this had an effect on his subsequent life. He certainly became a better Senator and perhaps a better human being. History will judge.

Posted by: kguy1 | August 26, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Nah, TBG, it's too much fun staying here checking out the latest talking points.

Now, if there's a good Sauvignon Blanc in the bunker, I could be persuaded.

Posted by: Raysmom | August 26, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Don't know much of anything about Harriman except that he was a pretty good admin. of the WWII loan program to Britain, and was boffing Churchill's daughter-in-law, whom he much later married (just finished reading a book about that during my vacation, actually). Was a famous diplomat and ambassador, etc. What particular accusations did you have in mind, Weed?

His daddy was the E.E. Harriman of the Union Pacific Railroad, whose mail car got blown up in "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid," and who hired the Super Posse.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | August 26, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Hey JA, 11:16 deserves your attention and perhaps action.

Posted by: Scottynuke | August 26, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

And for something different (just for Mo too)-- chiropterean serenades!

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | August 26, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Averill Harriman and Prescott Bush were involved in an international banking outfit with ties to the Nazis in the mid-late 30's.

Posted by: kguy1 | August 26, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

ronjaboy! cute. We are running insurance companies out of business. I am crying big big tears for them.

Here's the deal, some of us in America, feel that health care should be available to all. If you think the Emergency Room as primary care physician is going to work for even a couple more years, you are sadly mistaken.

We are running out of ways to fund hospitals and docs (we being the government by the people).

It is unfortunate that you think that being taxed is infringing on the rich and their wealth collection.

Here is a little factoid from The National Coalition on Health Care to conjure:

A recent study found that 62 percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses. Of those who filed for bankruptcy, nearly 80 percent had health insurance.

The dirty little secret is that people can't even afford their portions of the bill from hospital visits. OK, then you have this growing population of Americans who are stuck in bankruptcy which then affects their ability to function on a full financial basis that would normally drive the economy. We are choking our economy. All so a few can be rich. Maybe, you would see that being a little less rich and making money off of a vibrant economy is better than being extremely rich in a poor nation.

Oh, and their is nothing very conservative about conservatives... they used the government to mess with our lives in favor of large corporations. Is it the competitive nature of business that you support?

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Kennedy is a key figure in American history of the second half of the 20th century, probably more so than some of the period's presidents. Dan Balz's story on Kennedy the legislator provides the details.

Posted by: DaveoftheCoonties | August 26, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

OK, now I want a pony.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse


thanks so much for drawing the parallel to which my comment was meant to allude.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Well, Weed -- you're really lucky (as are we all), because under all that s**t being spewed, there's gotta be a pony somewhere!

I want one, too.

Posted by: -ftb- | August 26, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

When I die, please feel free NOT to write an online, comment-enabled piece about me.

Posted by: bobsewell | August 26, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

ftb, I can loan you my old mule, Dapple.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | August 26, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Mudge, my massage therapist and her husband have a Great Dane who resembles (in size only) a Shetland Pony. So, I got one. But, thanks anyway.

But there's still too much s**t being thrown around with a lot of lost ponies underneath.

Posted by: -ftb- | August 26, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

ftb, if that's your measure, there must be a herd of ponies 'round here somewhere...

Posted by: Raysmom | August 26, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Got me thinking about the last time the Govt decided that it could mess with my life and those in my industry...

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Oh, so that's why I haven't accumulated my own wealth...or gotten a pony.

Posted by: seasea1 | August 26, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Hi, all. I have nothing to say about Teddy except that I hope this somehow helps the Democrats grow a spine and pass the health care bill.

Does anyone (yello?) know of a free audio upload/share site like Flickr or Photobucket for pictures? I have a huge MP3 file (over an hour) of a WWII vet talking about his experiences as a POW that I want to share with someone, and it's too big to send as an attachment to e-mail. Thanks.

Posted by: Wheezy11 | August 26, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Could I have two ponies? One for me and one for my husband.

Posted by: drzimmern1 | August 26, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Wheezy, how big's the file? One man's huge is another man's normal (and they say size doesn't matter). Rapidshare might work for you.

Posted by: kguy1 | August 26, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Wheezy... try

Posted by: -TBG- | August 26, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Gosh, the Papa John's Pizza dude really, really liked his car, didn't he?

Posted by: bobsewell | August 26, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

kguy, it's 74.8MB. I don't know if that's big or not.

Posted by: Wheezy11 | August 26, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

He he...Trying substituting "pony" for "doctor" or "health care" as in:

I don't want the stinkin' government getting between me and my pony.

If this legislation passes, it will lead to rationing of ponies.

I don't want the government providing ponies to illegal aliens.

Posted by: Raysmom | August 26, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Wheezy... can handle up to 100 mb files for ya.

Posted by: -TBG- | August 26, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

I can't get to it from work, but (if they are still around) hosts audio files. They have a pretty strict copyright policy, but if it's your own stuff, that shouldn't be a problem.

Posted by: yellojkt | August 26, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I know a lot of knitters who are raging and sputtering for health reform and calling Congresspeople about it. And a lot of pro-reform folks were at Jim Moran's town hall Tuesday:

Posted by: seasea1 | August 26, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, kguy and TBG - I'm uploading it now.

Posted by: Wheezy11 | August 26, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Consumerist to the rescue again! Here's a great product, only outshone by its awesome URL...

Posted by: -TBG- | August 26, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Added some stuff to the kit, fyi...

Posted by: joelache | August 26, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Wheezy - If nothing else, you could stick it on a USB drive and just mail it. Anything under about a gigabyte is basically a giveaway any more, so you should be able to find one cheap or free.

Posted by: bobsewell | August 26, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

The product itself has an awesome URL, I mean.

Posted by: -TBG- | August 26, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Good additions, Joel.

Posted by: -TBG- | August 26, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Bob, I would have just sent it regular mail, but it's going to an anonymous blogger who probably wouldn't want to give out her real address. Again, thanks to all (thanks, yello).

Posted by: Wheezy11 | August 26, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, especially how you delibrately and tastefully refrained from pointing out that Ted's brother had a full secret service contigent and still got shot.

That must have taken self-control, Joel.

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | August 26, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

kguy said it.

I suppose I will make a respectful and, yes, admiring, only slightly caveated toast to the Senator this evening or so, among like-minded fellows, in private. My condolences are offered to the Kennedy family here in the Achenblog comments section, where they have as good a chance of seeing them as any other place I could think of.

Posted by: Jumper1 | August 26, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Joel, yes. I am amazed with the logic of some of the arguments being made and assumptions, as well. Last night, Olbermann had a pointed poke at Grassley about his health care comments... seems he kept making "left turns" so many times, he drove is thoughts right into his own point.

I mean no offense to Sen. Grassley, but one gets to a certain age and you can't solve problems anymore, you can only cause them. A Republican friend said before the election that we need Obama because he is young and vibrant, not that he agreed at all with him.

The point is, can you make improvements without first really grasping the problem. Obama seems to be able to, but right now, the Republicans are getting "old" before our eyes.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Raysmom, I'm going to a chinese restaurant to get a fortune cookie and I will add, "on a pretty pony" to my fortune.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

joel, that last addition about the gun violence is priceless.

Posted by: LALurker | August 26, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Not to drive anyone away from here, but this is a pretty good assessment of the political situation:

Posted by: Raysmom | August 26, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Best cookie fortune I ever got said, "Come easy, go easy!"

Posted by: kguy1 | August 26, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Kguy... priceless.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Developing details about services, etc...

Posted by: Scottynuke | August 26, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

A measure of Senator Kennedy's life: Today, every single person in the United States has a better life thanks to Sen. Kennedy than they would have had otherwise.

Posted by: pgbach | August 26, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

A link from a knitterly friend to Cal Thomas' remembrance of Ted Kennedy:

Posted by: seasea1 | August 26, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

No time to back boodle but I had a very considerate phone call from Mr. F this morning, just to see how I was doing-as if Ted Kennedy were a family member. And on this tearful day he might as well have been.

Mr. F was not a Kennedy fan, until very recently and then only grudgingly. But,on our first date, so long ago, Mr. F said something I'd never heard from a man before-
"Tell me about yourself"
I replied "I'm pro-choice, against capital punishment, don't eat oranges or anything orange flavored, and think we need national health now."
Later he learned not to take gratuitous shots at LBJ, Hubert Humphrey or Sen. Kennedy unless he wanted to be cut off at the knees. Flawed all, but heroes to me, and I so hoped we'd finally achieve comprehensive health reform in time for Ted to see it.

I wonder if LBJ could have ridden a tide of sympathy to any significant legislation if there had been such a thing as internet comments.

It's taken a lifetime, but oranges are the only thing Mr. F and I still don't agree on.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | August 26, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Your comment about gun violence has some merit, I suppose, if you are in the lone gunman camp about the Kennedys assassinations.

Posted by: ronjaboy | August 26, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for those great additions to the Kit, Joel. Your observation about Kennedys and gun violence is particularly appropriate.

frostbitten, over the years many of Ivansdad's views have also migrated towards my own. Partly this could have been the result of moving to a state where the Democrats are so conservative that Republicans pretty much ran on extreme social and economic positions for years, just to show the difference.

I want a pony too, but only if it comes with its own groom and stable. I'd sure take the free parking space.

Posted by: Ivansmom | August 26, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Teddy Kennedy did both great good and great harm to the American public. On the one hand, we got Medicare and Social Security cost-of-living increases as a result of his efforts. His support of Obama undoubtedly helped, even if Oprah's endorsement meant much more. But on the other hand, he set the gold standard for generations of philandering politicians to finesse the consequences of their actions. And he arguably cost Jimmy Carter re-election, giving us 8 years of Ronald Reagan and setting back Middle East peace efforts for over a decade. A mixed record, at best.

Posted by: ripvanwinkleincollege | August 26, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Boy, I missed that one. I always thought that Carter cost himself the election. I voted for him, given the choice, but I've always thought Carter was his own worst enemy as president. He's been a good role model for ex-Presidents,though.

Posted by: Ivansmom | August 26, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

I missed that part about Teddy and Jimmy Carter, too, Ivansmom.

The Geekdottir sent me a cartoon that says it all to me:

On the way home from taking Mr. T to the airport, I saw a bumpersticker that I like. It was one word:


Posted by: slyness | August 26, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Is this the end of the dynasty?

Posted by: Don_from_I270 | August 26, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Don: no.

Posted by: Jumper1 | August 26, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Carter was ineffectual as president but I think he showed more courage and integrity than any other president of my lifetime when he went on live TV to announce the failed Iranian hostage rescue. He basically said, "We tried. We failed. Men are dead. I made the call. The blame's on me."

Posted by: kguy1 | August 26, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

There will be a lot made of Ted's philandering, but I think it appropriate to mention that Mary Jo Kopechne was not some party girl hanger on. She was one of the "boiler room girls" on RFK's campaign and had dedicated her too short adult life to important stuff, if one concedes that civil rights and political action are important.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | August 26, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

I have just learned that September 5 is International Bacon Day. I think that is splendid.

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

There will be a lot made of Ted's philandering, but I think it appropriate to mention that Mary Jo Kopechne was not some party girl hanger on. She was one of the "boiler room girls" on RFK's campaign and had dedicated her too short adult life to important stuff, if one concedes that civil rights and political action are important.

Posted by: frostbitten1

And a highlight of her activist life would have been getting poked by a real Kennedy, especially the Next-in-Line for the Presidency.

Alas for Mary Jo, the poking she dreamed of never came to be.

She was screwed by other means.

Posted by: ChrisFord1 | August 26, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

They're only off by two days, Yoki... *LOL*

JA, I present to you the 3:29 for your review.

Posted by: Scottynuke | August 26, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I have to commend ronjaboy for not backing down. He keeps digging that hole, and filling it full of crazy. Well done, sir! Just out of curiosity, are you one of those angry rightists who is so disgusted by the system that you refuse to participate, therefore making yourself the political equivalent of a horsefly -- obnoxious as all get-out, but lacking the vote -- or should I start recruiting someone to nullify your vote? Now, be honest with me -- no faking!

Posted by: ScienceTim | August 26, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Pick me, pick me! Freshly minted citizen ready for inspection sir!

Posted by: DNA_Girl | August 26, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

All right, DNA_Girl, you're responsibility is to vote opposite ronjaboy in all national elections. Unfortunately, I don't think that the two of you are likely to live within the same jurisdiction, so we'll need to recruit others to vote his opposite in state and local elections. Still, no reason that one of you should have to carry all the weight. It's better to spread the work around.

Posted by: ScienceTim | August 26, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

"you're responsibility"? I feel so ashamed. I could see that error while the "Loading..." indicator was whirling around, foretelling my grammatical doom. "YOUR responsibility."

Posted by: ScienceTim | August 26, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

I'm still trying to figure out what horseflies have to do with voting, but it seemed like a good metaphor within the moment...

Posted by: ScienceTim | August 26, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

If you did a Venn diagram of horseflies and voting, SciTim, I believe the intersection would smell somewhat like a horse pasture...

Posted by: Scottynuke | August 26, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Welcome ChrisFord1! We appreciate intelligent insightful comments as well as humor here. Care to try for one of those?

Posted by: frostbitten1 | August 26, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Yoki -- I've checked my calendar and, alas, I can't see you when you're down here this time.

*sob* (to be distinguished from, you know, "SOBs")

Have a great time, and I hope the weather holds.

And, Joel, I think today's kit is very, very nice and very, very good. There are those who choose to envision any perspective over the life of someone, and more's the pity. It would be interesting to hear what these bloviators would say if the Kopechne episode, as tragic as it was, happened to a Republican. I think that after that tragic episode happened, Ted Kennedy transformed himself into his own man and did great things.

I also look at the Kennedy family(ies) in comparison with the Bush family(ies) and see a crucial and distinct set of differences. The Kennedys, for all their faults among their good points, actually saw and partook in public service to be something everyone should strive for and do well for. The Bushes, on the other hand, appear to have looked at public service like pigs at a trough (sorry to defame pigs in general), taking what they could get and treating all appointments and "elections" as an entitlement and "it's my turn now" approach. It's the difference between a altruism and narcissism. And I think the Bushes don't only not get it, they don't really care.

I'm sad for the loss of a good person -- flaws and all, escapades and all and Kopechne's loss and all. He dealt with her death, and his part to play in it with a legacy which shall be unmatched in our lifetimes. He did something positive in his life -- for other people.

Now I gotta go search through the s**t for my pony.

Posted by: -ftb- | August 26, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

SCC: those who choose NOT to envision . . .


Posted by: -ftb- | August 26, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

International Bacon Day?!!! Time to go to the MN State Fair and finally sample that chocolate covered bacon on a stick.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | August 26, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Well, SciTim, horseflies and gadflies do have something in common, so perhaps your subconscious prompted you to pick that term. Greek mythology comes to mind.

I, for one, always liked Senator Teddy Kennedy, even when I was a College Republican back in the early seventies. Luckily, I matured and decided that I didn't like the GOP of manipulation, extreme right wing intolerance, etc., that it eventually became.

There are good and bad folks in all parties, but if I had to choose between Senator Edward Kennedy and some of his colleagues, I'd choose him and the way he conducted his life overall. All humans are flawed. When he and Senator Byrd voted against the war in Iraq, I phoned them both to thank them, because I couldn't get my own Senators here in CT to represent me.

Anyway, I am going to light a candle in his memory tonight and place it in the front window of my apartment. When I heard the news last night, I offered up a prayer for him.

Almost everyone in my family dies from cancer and they all exhibited the same dignity that he did in his battle to try to see his goal through to the end.

Tonight I'll meditate for all the people--pro and con Kennedy--whose expressions I've read here and elsewhere and hope that the negative folks will somehow recognize the humanity we all share with all the shades of gray that come with being human.

Peace and serenity to you all. I'm going home now. Will mostly lurk again tomorrow if work isn't too hectic.


Posted by: CoraCollins | August 26, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

ftb, I am very sad.

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

End of summer nigh,
frosh will soon cover the lawn
sparkly wings unfurled...
I have to, ready or not,
be responsibility

Posted by: DNA_Girl | August 26, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

God loves us so much more than we can imagine through Him that died for all, Jesus Christ.

Hello, friends. Thanks everyone for the great pick-me up.

This is a sad kit, but wonderfully written, and I agree with the main points. I believe Senator Kennedy loved this country, and wanted everyone to share the good of the country. It would be nice if more folks felt that way. And no matter a person's political leanings, their family will missed them when they're gone. Someone will be hurt.

It seems we might need to pass our comments by a lawyer before posting them. I saw the story about Google and the model. That's going to make it tough to blow off steam. I guess one will have to tip toe around certain issues or get creative with blasting individuals. Kind of takes the fun out of it, wouldn't you say? Oh, well, it's always fun until one steps in it.

It is hot here. Just plain old hot. I went to school with the g-girl for the first day. She was so excited. Her mother took pictures. She had the book bag, and wore a skirt. And that skirt would not stay up over that round tummy. She's riding the bus too. I called the grandsons and they started yesterday too. They told me they were ready to go back. So was the g-girl. I don't understand these kids ready to go back to school. Summer had to be b-o-r-i-n-g.

It's a sad day. Always sad when we lose good people.

Posted by: cmyth4u | August 26, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

The Minnesota State Fair opens tomorrow, Frosty, and runs 12 days --

Lynyrd Skynyrd Saturday night, Jackson Browne Monday; O.A.R. (I love "Shattered") on Sept. 2, Garrison Keillor and PHC on the 4th, Bonnie Raitt and Taj Mahal tomorrow night! (Amongst some others.) I'm frenvious!

And bacon? Ya want some bacon?

Big Fat Bacon (stand)

One-third pound slice of bacon fried and carmelized with maple syrup, served on-a-stick with dipping sauces. On the map: N-27 Directions:South side of Carnes between Clough and Nelson

Frosty, you gotta get one of these beasts and take a photo of it and post it to the Boodle.

Meanwhile, the Delicious Potato Skins shop has deep-fried Spudsters on-a-stick.

Here's the place caught my eye, don't know why:

Wild Bills Curly Fries

Curly fries with the following flavors (cajun, seasoned, ranch, cheese, cheese and bacon, chili and cheese), corn dogs, foot long corn dogs. MSF souvenir cups and refills. On the map: P-26 Directions:
On east side of Nelson, near northeast corner of Nelson and Carnes

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | August 26, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Excellent post from David Friedman's blog "Ironic Sans"...

Idea: Rename the Health Bill

As the Democrats in Congress are struggling to get the rest of America on board with their proposed health plan, I can’t help but wonder if a better name wouldn’t help. Take a page from the Republican playbook. They give bills names that are loaded with meaning and are difficult to vote against without looking bad. Who would vote no on something called No Child Left Behind? Who wouldn’t support the USA Patriot act?

So I propose that the Senate rename their bill the American Legislative Insurance For Everyone act, a.k.a. the American LIFE act.

Who could vote against the American LIFE act? What Senator wants to be up for reelection and hear their opponent ask “Why did you vote against American LIFE, Senator?”

I floated the idea on Twitter and while many people thought it was a good idea, others rightly pointed out that the word “For” is often omitted from acronyms, so Republicans could just call it the American LIE act. That’s a good point. So make LIFE stand for something else. Or come up with another acronym. But a good name could help keep Republicans from defining the bill how they want people to see it.

Posted by: -TBG- | August 26, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Hey, Cora, good to see you back. I don't think you've posted but once or twice since we met at the Grand International BPH a couple years ago. How ya been?

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | August 26, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Mudge-I'm going to the fair on Sunday. Had secretly wanted to try one of those bacon bad boys, now I must. For the sake of the boodle of course.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | August 26, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Cora... beautiful post. Thanks for popping in. Good to see you.

Posted by: -TBG- | August 26, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Hey Aroc! Good to see you!

Today is Ben Bradlee's 88th birthday. Someone wished him a happy on the chat he and Sally did on Ted Kennedy. Wow, hard to think of him being that age.

Posted by: slyness | August 26, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

And I thought Frosti was kidding about the bacon on a stick. Bacon on a stick and deep fried potato skins, how many years does that shorten your life by?

Posted by: dmd3 | August 26, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Well, I'm just grateful for the opportunity to inspire you to do the Right Thing, Frosty.

I'm not so sure those bacon things shouldn't be registered with the police as lethal weapons. I got a hunch one of them would flat out kill me.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | August 26, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Um, Mudge, where exactly is the defibrillation station on that map? I see arterial blockages ahead, BIG TIME.

Posted by: kguy1 | August 26, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

frosti -- don't forget to fax some over (my tummy just grumbled and it's too early for dinner).

Yoki -- I'm sad, too.

And Cora! Aroc! I was actually thinking about you today and wondered where you've been. Great to hear from you.

Cassandra, hugs to you, too.

And, now, back to the grindstone. . . .

Posted by: -ftb- | August 26, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

I do feel kinda bad for the woman who sued Google to get the blogger's identity. Somehow, I doubt that the eternal linkage of "Liskula" & "skank" was the outcome she had envisioned.

Posted by: bobsewell | August 26, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

kguy, maybe they serve them with the defib paddles attached, kind of like a waffle cone. Take a bite, get a shock. Take another bite, get another shock.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | August 26, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Stomach and belly
butt and heart ache; I lie flat,
to whine, sulk, then nap.


Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | August 26, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

"Bacon on a stick and deep fried potato skins, how many years does that shorten your life by?"

Not as many as a brain tumor.


Posted by: -TBG- | August 26, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Hey aroc, good to hear from you! Bacon on a stick, gee here I was feeling decadent because I bought a pound of bacon so I could make BLTs with some of the few tomatoes we have gotten from the garden. We also had our first corn last night. Nothing like homegrown corn, amazingly sweet and tender. Of course we’ll be having it every night now until it’s gone and at some point I’m sure I’ll be sick of it. I may try freezing some kernels.

Posted by: badsneakers | August 26, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

No need to apologize TBG. It was funny, not mean.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | August 26, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Dominick Dunne has died:

Posted by: joelache | August 26, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

We're about to have another beach festival. Tropical Storm Danny is expected to provide a nice swell tomorrow and Friday. I don't know of any spells that can be cast to hold it over through Saturday.

Fresh Market, an upscale food store from North Carolina, has opened locally. The 200 kinds of cheese is frightening. Bakery seems good (ciabatta has big holes), two hundred kinds of cheese seems a little too much (so does the olive bar). Will Fresh Market thrive in a town where rich people are present mainly in winter? A lot of local businesses catering to the well-off have closed.

Posted by: DaveoftheCoonties | August 26, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Summer of Death indeed.

Posted by: rickoshea0 | August 26, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Dave, I love my Fresh Market! Enjoy the cheese variety. My favorite is Stilton with ginger and mango, which I purchase only for myself and not often, because it's $21 a pound.

Seriously, there are products I buy at the Fresh Market because they are cheaper there than at Harris Teeter, such as Brianna salad dressing and rice crackers. And they carry Sticky Fingers scone mixes, which are fabulous.

Enjoy! The meats are excellent, the deli is good, mine even has sushi made daily. What's not to love?

Posted by: slyness | August 26, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

IMHO, there's one set of rules for certain folks and another for the rest. That, people, should concern us all. Ted Kennedy/Chappaquiddick cannot be just shrugged off. How about the William Kennedy Smith rape trial travesty, or the Michael Skakel murder trial debacle. You have the name, the money, and/or the celebrity and you are thus not subject to the rules for the less fortunate, or basically, the rest of us. Same with celebrities, Michael Jackson comes to mind.

If someone goes to prison for whatever crime, once and if they get out, they're marked for life. Doesn't matter what good deeds follow. Kennedy (and other Kennedys) escaped a prison sentence, so did Jackson. So when they pass, we can all talk about the good things and ignore those pesky indiscretions.

Not to say that Kennedy did not do good things. But, you know, he was lucky he did not get thrown in prison for the death of Mary Jo. The rest of his story would not have been accolades upon his death. Same with Jackson.

Posted by: jlessl | August 26, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

On sorta the same wavelength as Joel, Maureen Dowd of the NY Times had a column about cyberbullies or bloggers who anonymously spew venom about others. I have certainly noticed this trend myself. I live in Palo Alto, California, and we have a nice little local paper called the Palo Alto Weekly. They now have an online issue, and I've just about given up reading the comments that follow articles.

We're kinda stuck on ourselves in Palo Alto, practically part of Stanford, good Blue State cred, etc. The Weekly deletes really gross ones (not sure what their criteria are for deletions; only see that Whatsisname26 posted something and the line: content deleted by the Weekly staff). But the ones that do make the cut: yikes! Who are these people? I'm an active member of one of the largest neighborhood associations in town and know no one who has such negative, horrible things to say about public figures.

I guess the conclusion is that more people who are just angry and frustrated in general post comments.

Posted by: novelera | August 26, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Here's the thing. When we discuss a person's public accomplishments, be they in the realm of politics, or music, or literature, or science, or even sports, we are not choosing to ignore an individuals private faults, we are simply allowing ourself to look beyond them.

Many of the true geniuses out there are also profoundly complex and frequently flawed. I think it has to do with brain chemistry or something.

So if you choose to discount all great accomplishments because the individuals involved were not Practically Perfect in Every Way you are going to be looking at a pretty short list.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | August 26, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Plus, novelera, In Palo Alto you have that great See's Candy store where you can get a discount with your government ID.

That place totally rocks.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | August 26, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

There was a column by Maureen Dowd today in the NY Times about cyberbullies and anonymous bloggers who post falsehoods about others. This sort of lines up with what Joel had to say in today's post.

I live in Palo Alto, California, and we have a nice little local paper called The Palo Alto Weekly. They also have an online edition. I no longer can bear to read the comments on most of the articles.

The Weekly prunes this stuff. What you see is Joewhatshisname46 posted something and: comment deleted by staff. But, still. What gets through seems overwhelmingly negative and critical of city officials, kids in Palo Alto, new public art placements, you name it.

We pride ourselves on being a well educated populace, next door to Stanford University. But who are these people? It really seems that the anonymity of posting to blogs and newspaper articles attracts a huge majority of nasty malcontents.

Posted by: novelera | August 26, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Whoops, sorry. I tried to cancel the first one to write the second one better. But both showed up.

Posted by: novelera | August 26, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

You make a good point, novelera, whether rewritten or not :-) I think the people who post those foul comments are probably the same people that would otherwise be brooding and chewing over their grudges-against-the-world alone in their basements and yelling at kids to get off their lawns.

I'm going to try to look at this way; at least when they are on the internet they aren't polishing their guns and paranoia.

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Hey, stop ragging the newbie!
Novelera, there be gremlins in the bunker. Pay them no mind. And for goodness sake don't spill water on them...

Posted by: DNA_Girl | August 26, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

EYE most certainly was not ragging the noob. I was conversing with him, in the hope that he will converse back. Gosh.

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Dadgumit, I called the gremlin exterminator last week. I hope the shop steward will spring for another visit. It's not cheap, yanno. But Mudge does hate it when they get into the wine cellar...

Posted by: slyness | August 26, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse

At the beginning of the Red Sox game just now they had a short eulogy and moment of silence for Kennedy. Then a group of 10 young men called the Hyannis Sound sang a wonderful a capella Star Spangled Banner. A very nice tribute to the senator.

Posted by: badsneakers | August 26, 2009 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Not you Yoki, I meant the gremlins who trigger Post Submitic Stress Disorder. They got SciTim earlier today..

Posted by: DNA_Girl | August 26, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Hey folks, after all the death and sadness, it occurs to me that we haven't had virtual lunch in a long time. Why don't you all come to my place and we'll have a picnic on the island in the river?

Hope this doesn't post twice, but it may.

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 7:22 PM | Report abuse

I didn't realize that Dominick Dunne was John Gregory Dunne's brother. His obit is here:

Posted by: seasea1 | August 26, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Whew! The idea of DNA_Girl thinking ill of me gave me the vapours.

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

The possibility of you having the vapours is the only reason I keep smelling salts around Yoki.

Posted by: shrieking_denizen | August 26, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Why thank you, shriek. I do swoon most gracefully to my couch.

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

I love the word "swoon."

On a totally different subject, Roger Ebert has a beautiful essay about A.A...

Posted by: -TBG- | August 26, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

I read that Ebert piece TBG and it is spot on.

Posted by: badsneakers | August 26, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

I am sorry Yoki but imagining you with "the vapours" makes me giggle.

Posted by: dmd3 | August 26, 2009 7:54 PM | Report abuse

"Ted Kennedy"(s)?

You can't and you won't have any more. There was only one.

Posted by: AppDev | August 26, 2009 7:58 PM | Report abuse

I love you, dmd. A little dissonance there? For me, too.

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 7:59 PM | Report abuse

Now, Yoki GIVING people the vapours, that's to be expected... :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | August 26, 2009 8:02 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

This "Teddy in his own words" thing on CNN is pretty good stuff -- archival footage, a chronological look at his career, and personal ups and downs.

Here's something else worth looking at: Teddy's eulogy for Bobby:

Posted by: joelache | August 26, 2009 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Ted Kennedy - like the rest of us - was human.

He did great and wonderful things and made mistakes. He had strengths and weaknesses, as anyone does.

Because of the family he was born into and the life he chose to lead, many of those things became newspaper headlines.

At times he used all the advantages at his disposal for himself and his family, and at times for Americans and even the world. Sometimes he may have had a little too much of an evening, and at times he could not possibly have been kinder, more caring, and gracious to individuals and for the country.

He learned how to live, how to get things done, how to wield power, and realized the import of doing so for others. Perhaps it started as simply honoring and upholding family tradition, but I think Ted Kennedy made much of the Democratic politics and the party much of what it is today. At times he was at center stage and at others, he worked behind the scenes, and was an effective leader and representative for his constituency.

I think he did his best to do what he thought right for the majority of Americans and the people he represented, particularly those who did not have the same advantages he did. The man was admirably effective at it, too.

As he aged, the role of patriarch/godfather fell on his shoulders -- on personal and public levels, and he seemed to bear it well. Given his life experiences, that role suited him particularly well, I think.

He was a fighter, but it looked to me as if he led as much with his heart as with his left.

Was he perfect? Hardly.
But he did a lot, and the world and this nation are both measurably and immeasurably better for his having been here.

Just some thoughts.


Posted by: -bc- | August 26, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

We don't need any more Ted Kennedy types, because we don't need any more young women left to die an agonizing death by a murderous coward.

Posted by: fgoepfert1 | August 26, 2009 9:06 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: -TBG- | August 26, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

I will have bacon-wrapped aspirin. It sounds awful but it tastes better than, you know, plain aspirin.

Posted by: Jumper1 | August 26, 2009 9:09 PM | Report abuse

Well, why not?

Posted by: Jumper1 | August 26, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Twice Sigh

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse

Try aspirin-wrapped bacon, Jumper.

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | August 26, 2009 9:24 PM | Report abuse

bc, well said. It's been a sad day hereabouts. We haven't had much unrelated to Kennedy news on local stations but they did mention that we might be having a small hurricane on Saturday. That will play havoc with the funeral among other things. Going to make sure to buy batteries tomorrow. The granddaughters are coming Friday night so hope the storm stays little.

Posted by: badsneakers | August 26, 2009 9:30 PM | Report abuse

In that Maureen Dowd column, the first paragraph was:

"If I read all the vile stuff about me on the Internet, I’d never come to work. I’d scamper off and live my dream of being a cocktail waitress in a militia bar in Wyoming."

I don't know whether to take umbrage or beam with pride.

Posted by: Mo_MoDo | August 26, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

I've eaten bacon ice cream. Usually, I like salt and sweet together but I didn't in this case. Canned tuna and french vanilla ice cream on Wonder Bread is far, far better.

And getting back on Kit, there may not be enough bacon in the world to wrap some of these comments up for better taste, too.


Posted by: -bc- | August 26, 2009 9:51 PM | Report abuse

I'm pretty sure, darlin' yello, that she wasn't talking about you.


Step away from the columnist.

Step away!

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Of course, chez Yoki, we consider bacon to be a food group. 3-5 servings a day.

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 9:54 PM | Report abuse

I know, Yoki. I can only dream that that henna-haired opinionatrix would deign to glance at my meager scratchings. **Sigh**

Posted by: Mo_MoDo | August 26, 2009 10:10 PM | Report abuse

Teddy Kennedy's role in history is as much litmus test as it is testament. Despite his all too human failings, he seemed to truly believe in his mission to propel and champion the causes of his brothers.

Posted by: yellojkt | August 26, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

No slave to opinion, me!

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 10:17 PM | Report abuse

Interesting article on bacon Yoki, I love bacon in food, but some ideas not so much.

Video the other day in the globe on the correct wines for tomatoes

Posted by: dmd3 | August 26, 2009 10:31 PM | Report abuse

So, no fat, no meat, but plenty of salt.

Posted by: -dbG- | August 26, 2009 10:36 PM | Report abuse

A recipe-
1/2 to 1 lb bacon-fried and crumbled
broccoli (couple bunches or so)cut up
1 cup shredded sharp cheddar cheese
1/2- 1 red onion (or sweet white)diced fine
1 cup mayonnaise
1/3 cup sugar
3 tablespoons red wine vinegar

Mix mayonnaise, sugar and vinegar-set aside.

Toss broccoli, onion, cheese and bacon until well mixed. Dress with mayonnaise mixture. Refrigerate at least 3 hours, overnight is better. Stir well and serve. Better yet, store in a bowl with a tight fitting lid and turn upside down, then right side up, several times before serving.

Powdery mildew jumped from the zinnias to my pea vines today. Picked the last of the peas ready for harvest, the darling new blossoms will go in the compost with the vines tomorrow. Getting enough cherry tomatoes to enjoy with lunch. Keep saying they'll make it into a dinner salad, but they never make it into the house.

Toodles boodle and sweet dreams. I'll drift off to the NPR special on Sen. Kennedy.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | August 26, 2009 10:47 PM | Report abuse

...and don your hula skirts, boys and girls...

Posted by: -jack- | August 26, 2009 10:48 PM | Report abuse

I can't even have bacon-salt, with my hypertension.

I just imagine chocolate-covered honey-cured-bacon.


Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Too funny, jack.

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 10:53 PM | Report abuse

frosti, I love that salad, my friend would make it all the time.

Posted by: dmd3 | August 26, 2009 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Jim Gaffigan on bacon.

I know I've seen a longer version of this but I can't find it.

Posted by: badsneakers | August 26, 2009 11:00 PM | Report abuse

This summer my son and his buddy made bacon rolls. Food that good should be illegal instead of just unhealthy.

Posted by: yellojkt | August 26, 2009 11:04 PM | Report abuse

something that I feel like embodies the spirit of Sen. Kennedy:

Posted by: -jack- | August 26, 2009 11:08 PM | Report abuse

This is my bacon experience.

Posted by: Yoki | August 26, 2009 11:19 PM | Report abuse

Let me disagree with you on one thing, yellojkt. You say that Teddy Kennedy was dedicated to advancing the causes of his brothers. Based on the available evidence, it seems more fair and more honest to say that he championed the causes that he shared with his brothers. Why should we suggest that their advocacy was genuine, while his was ersatz?

Like Teddy, we know that JFK was deeply flawed as a person. Despite his personal flaws, however, we remember to respect him for his public accomplishments. Cuing off what RDP said, if we demand that people who do great things also be personally saintly before we can advance them even a smidgen of respect, then we will have a very short list, indeed. Even though JFK was a philanderer who managed to philander with practically any woman who crossed his path, we don't doubt the depth of his commitment to the public causes that he championed. Why should we think less of his brother Ted? And even if his commitment was skin-deep, so what?

The genius of our Constitutional system of government is its ability to channel the personal avarice of ambitious men and women to serve the needs of the people. If the good deed gets done, does it matter so much that the person who did it is someone a responsible parent wouldn't leave alone with his daughter? Like, say, Bill Clinton?

Posted by: ScienceTim | August 26, 2009 11:37 PM | Report abuse

Tim, I come home to your post and it is sending me back to the kitchen for a third "pimped up" piece of pizza.

(well, I think I might have gotten that extra piece without any reason whatsoever.)

Very thought provoking.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 26, 2009 11:45 PM | Report abuse

You all are charming. Really. Think you have the corner on democracy. Believe in your Constitution. So cute! We lobe you, really we do.


Posted by: Yoki | August 27, 2009 12:02 AM | Report abuse

Yes, Yoki. I spent some time on the Ted Kennedy Chappaquiddick incident, then hit an unfortunate key. Hadn't even gotten to the genius of the Constitution part. Thank you.

Posted by: seasea1 | August 27, 2009 12:10 AM | Report abuse

Thanks, seasea. Say, can you write to me at I have a lunch-date in late October to suggest to you.

Posted by: Yoki | August 27, 2009 12:13 AM | Report abuse

When I was a college student in the Raleigh-Durham area during the early 70s, foraging for food was difficult. The University-owned hotel had a useful cafeteria, nearly the only one on campus. I ate lots of greens there. A&P was horrible and a locally-run supermarket scarcely better, though French cheeses like Port Salut were somehow readily available. I get a feeling that North Carolinians became foodies as a reaction to a long history of deprivation.

I can't call Florida food-deprived with Publix everywhere, but Whole Foods pulled out of Melbourne. Not a good omen.

Today's plunder from the new Fresh Market includes:
Florida avocado (it's a short season).
Ciabatta (excellent)
Parmesan, on special
Some pouched entrees from India.

By the way, the local Walmart is selling Maytag blue cheese, elite French Brie and a few other such goodies. But Lebanon bologna has disappeared.

Tropical Storm Danny may bring lousy weather (as a low-grade hurricane) to Massachusetts on Saturday for Senator Kennedy's funeral mass.

Posted by: DaveoftheCoonties | August 27, 2009 12:38 AM | Report abuse

Teddy Kennedy came from a rich family. When it was clear that he had no chance of been elected president, he chose to stay in politics and help others who cannot help themselves. He didn’t have to do that. He could just concentrate on expanding his family business but he didn’t. I think that is commendable.

I hope he would be a role model for politicians the world over, especially those in developing countries. There are far too many politicians in developing countries who got themselves elected in office for the sole purpose of enriching themselves and not to help the disfranchised.

Posted by: rainforest1 | August 27, 2009 2:43 AM | Report abuse

God loves us so much more than we can imagine through Him that died for all, Jesus Christ.

Good morning, friends. Been a long time saying that. It's good to be here.

AROC and BC, just beautiful posts by both of you. AROC, it is good to hear from you. I missed your post and went back and read it. We haven't heard from you in awhile, but it's always good when you show up. I hope you are well.

Slyness, love the bumper sticker. Where can I find one? Thanks, Slyness.

Mudge, Scotty, Yoki, Martooni, and everyone, good, good, morning. Have a wonderful day.*waving*

Going to be another hot one today, and more of the humidity. That should keep us inside pretty much. I'm going to the library and finish up the list for the after-school program. Enjoy your day, folks.

Alright, Dawn Patrol, lets get it in gear. The weekend is almost here. Slyness, I hope you have ham biscuits, I'm fresh out.

Posted by: cmyth4u | August 27, 2009 5:47 AM | Report abuse

Cassandra, the ham biscuits are in the warmer on the ready room table. Help yourself!

If I find that bumpersticker, I'll buy one for you and one for me. So cool.

Dave, Whole Foods hasn't made it to Charlotte yet, although they have sorta tried. They are supposed to have a store in a mixed use building close to my church. I'd love to have a condo there, when it's built. That's my dream for the time when I no longer wish to keep up the 4-bedroom house on the half-acre lot.

Enjoy your Fresh Market! Mine is very small. Before recession hit, the company was planning to build a new, bigger store on the same property. I hope those plans have only been delayed; I should ask.

Posted by: slyness | August 27, 2009 6:58 AM | Report abuse

Whoa, Tim. As they say on Celebritology, carm down. I in no way implied Ted's passion was ersatz. But he was the younger brother in the shadow of some giants. His first elected office was in 1962 after JFK had already become President. Following that act is tough and he did it well in his own way.

If anything, his devotion to his causes, which like civil rights were shared with his brothers while others like gay rights weren't even on the political radar screen yet, was far stronger than a person's in his position had to be.

That said, Teddy and much of his family were tragically flawed in the classic Greek drama sense. The true, as in metaphysically aware as opposed to merely factually accurate, story of the greatest American political dynasty has yet to be told and may never be. It's too deep and complex.

Posted by: yellojkt | August 27, 2009 7:16 AM | Report abuse

Unless the NHC radically changes its Danny forecast, looks like Saturday morning should be reasonably calm in the Bay State.

Not feelin' very verbose this morning, so...

*I'm-fine-just-contemplative-and-an-extra-HUG-for-Cassandra Grover waves* :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | August 27, 2009 7:23 AM | Report abuse

'morning all. Interesting bacon discussion. Hummmmmm...bacon.

Summer's over, it lasted just over 3 weeks. We were back in single digit temperature this morning, 9C/48F. I was really lucky to take my 2-week vacation during the summery summer.

Posted by: shrieking_denizen | August 27, 2009 7:42 AM | Report abuse


I think you have quite simply and eloquently explained what so many saw in Kennedy and why his passing is such a huge loss to our society. At this time, when many Americans learned, first hand, how fragile our financial lives are, we now understand what many on the left have been harping about.

For much of the decade that Joel has had his little technology experiment, I get on my soap box and scream and yell about things and I have to say that I am lucky to be tolerated. None of us are perfect. Most of us work very very very hard. I see our country failing right now at something so important to our national success.

As I said in the past, rainforest, I have had to opportunity, when I took my breaks from being a stupid entrepreneur, to work with large health care data working on medical treatment efficacy studies. Also in the 70's I worked on civil rights cases doing analysis of state data and company information. I have seen the data, the real experiences of people, myself. When you check your work, you end up looking at real cases.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 27, 2009 7:48 AM | Report abuse

The point of all of this is to say that the data does tell a story. The data explains where our money is going. The data provides us with a minute by minute track of the care that is provided. Remember, we keep all the billing records. Everyone talks about the 12 dollar aspirin, but there is much more. As an economist-lite, I know why. What I also learned by working for the government and also for the insurance companies for a while, is that we are paying for health care services through these little bills.

In fact, we are paying now for all those people who line up at the emergency rooms--the uninusured--for treatment of what should have been done at a private doctor's office. The problem, 10 years ago, we saw the trend, but could only say that it was a slippery slope. Remember Bob Dole and his stupid chart? We knew it then. I was actually sitting in one of the little boxes on Bob's Republican inspired chart. What Hoooey.

Because we found out what it is like to slip down THAT SLIPPERY SLOPE, we now are trying again, and Rainforest, our champion has passed. I am so proud of Joel for stepping up and stopping that drivel from the constant angry crowd against Kennedy. Rainforest, you grasp why Kennedy's life was so important to the average American. He was dragging us, as a nation, in a more civil direction. He didn't have to, but he did.

Speaking of which... that slippery slope ... I have this feeling, based on just what some folks have said who are connected to hospitals, that we may be at the breaking point.

The K Street talking point that everyone gets health care if they need it, will no longer be the case. I think that hospitals will start closing their doors to the uninsured.

What's up? Well, guys like Stephen Hemsley of UnitedHealth Group are working feverishly on Capitol Hill to make even more money. If you start looking at what this company has done over the past ten to twenty years, you will see that it is all massive accounting schemes to control what is now about 1/7th of our GDP. They bought the hospitals or many of them. They bought the company that "independently" set the Usual and Customary Charges.

They lowered their own rates to drive people out of the business and then have been raising rates at an alarming rate, all along choking off folks such as the docs.

They are RIGHT NOW on capitol hill trying to increase co-pay amounts to a 30% level. The nasty little truth is that, right now, most people with insurance can't truly afford to go to the hospital for serious treatment. 80 percent of all personal bankruptcies faced by Americans are from health related costs accumulated by folks WITH insurance.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 27, 2009 7:49 AM | Report abuse

All this is to say Rainforest, that we have broken the system and, one by one, Americans are spending what they have for some hospital or health care disaster that is inevitable. We all face the fact that something will happen—a health event.

Our economy has ground to a halt because we borrowed against our house's equity value and, all across the nation, the values dropped. No more borrowing. Good thing most folks have the other resources and good salaries to keep paying on what they owe, but for the rest of us, if you have also lost your job, your credit has been ruined. Similarly, if you face a hospital issue, it is quite easy to have your credit ruined.

Our country had a negative savings rate about 2 years ago. Recently I saw that we are at 4 percent positive. That is a huge swing that means that folks are avoiding new purchases. Every economic number has a bright side and a dark side. The dark side is that small businesses, the bulwark of our nation are really suffering. They, in turn, are having a hard time paying the commercial rents of the early 2000's and, in many cases, are behind and in court with their landlords, who, in turn, are not paying their commercial mortgages.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 27, 2009 7:52 AM | Report abuse

Regional banks are failing at an alarming rate and are quietly being shepherded to buyouts by the Fed and Treasury.

This whole mishmash of an economic failure is intertwined in such a miserable way that the only thing that it resembles is Bob Dole's old chart that he held up to try to kill health care reform the LAST TIME.

So, Rainforest, why, I ask you, do guys like the Koch brothers or some of the Mellons, who have hundreds of billions or even trillions of dollars spend millions destabilizing the political and governing will of the average Americans? Why are we the only industrialized country without a national health care program?

Hey, why are guys like Tom Delay and Dick Armey getting paid huge sums of money to scare older folks into thinking that if we give 40 to 50 year olds national coverage at a discounted rates, even, that they will be killed?

They want to keep the government out of their Medicare!!?!?!?

I have to ask anyone reading this where this country would be without Kennedy and what he did to get Medicare passed?

The better question... Can I imagine a world without the United Health Group?

Yes, gladly. AND, it appears that most Americans can, as well, but capitol hill somehow doesn't know this. Seems like guys like Hemsley can just go the the hill and get what he wants. I wonder why? Quite simply, I know why the Koch's don't want national health care. Because they will pay for it.

And, so will Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and Bill Clinton and probably all of the Kennedys—gladly, however.
Most folks in America who succeed beyond their wildest dreams feel an obligation to support their country and make it a better place. Then again, there are some who feel that all this does is get in their way to accumulate wealth.

It is what it is.

The point is that it is time.

So many things will get miraculously better.

== weed

Posted by: russianthistle | August 27, 2009 7:53 AM | Report abuse

RIP Teddy Kennedy. This makes me incredibly sad.

Posted by: --dr-- | August 27, 2009 7:58 AM | Report abuse


I read every word of that comment, and I believe you know exactly what you're talking about. I just came in from sitting near the Piggly Wiggly, traffic moving briskly and some folks waving, and I thought about the folks that have displayed very bad behavior at the town hall meetings.

And I realized that not one shot has to be fired for a country to be brought to its knees. I don't think any of us think about that the way we should. Swine flu is not finish, it has not done its thing yet. I have a feeling that those same folks displaying bad behavior at town hall meetings will have another opportunity to do that for a much sadder reason.

I truly hope not, yet we cannot continue the things we are doing. There has to be change in a society when certain events take place, events that do not meet the needs of the masses. People will only endure so much, they get tired, they lose hope, and they don't see change. They usually roll everything into a simple explaination(?), the have, and the have-nots, and that, my friends, has never solved anything.

Posted by: cmyth4u | August 27, 2009 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Weed's got some REALLY good coffee this morning or something... *L*

Posted by: Scottynuke | August 27, 2009 8:17 AM | Report abuse


Posted by: russianthistle | August 27, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse


I read your comment, all of it, and I think you know exactly what you're talking about, and I agree with it.

I think also people need to realize that not one shot has to be fired in order for a country to be brought to its knees. The folks that display bad behavior at those town hall meetings may have an opportunity to do that again by the time swine flu has its way with us. I hope not.

We need to rethink our thinking, and realize we don't live in this world alone. And unless we have a colony somewhere in space, and transportation there, it just might be a good idea to work together for each other's good. Some events are equal opportunity operatives.

Posted by: cmyth4u | August 27, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

Sorry about the double posts. I thought the first one got held up, at least that what was stated.

Great comment, weed. I need some of that coffee.

Posted by: cmyth4u | August 27, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Cassandra, you touched on the aspect of this that does frighten me, as well. I think the Obama administration has been walking a fine and tolerant line with those folks brandishing weapons at meetings especially where the President is attending.

And yet, the flip side, if those same folks don't feel threatened, they are probably sweet neighbors.

When times are tough, it is easy to tag someone as the "cause of your problems."

Nothing ever got solved by shouting over another individual. It doesn't work in your own house and it doesn't work with your fellow citizens.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 27, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

BZ, Weed. BZ.

Posted by: Don_from_I270 | August 27, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Cassandra, you can have some coffee and I will also share one of my treasured cupcakes! Yellow cake with chocolate icing.

Perfect with coffee.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 27, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Weed, now that I've seen the evidence, I believe that we should treat health care as a public good, like every other society in the first world, and not allow for-profit companies to have anything to do with it. You are right on!

Posted by: slyness | August 27, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse


Thanks for the coffee, and the cupcake is right up my alley. I'm a sucker for sweets, and now they tell me, sweets aren't good for us. Well, what am I suppose to eat? And please don't tell me chicken. Yikes. Vegetables and fruit would be nice, but who can afford it?

Posted by: cmyth4u | August 27, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Be still my heart, and I mean that literally. Choco-syrupy-bacon-on-a-stick, Yoki's temping treats, and sly's bunker breakfast bonanzas. How's a guy supposed to loose any weight around here? The boodle babes just lead me around by the nose and mouth, drooling and yearning for these appetizing morsels. Lettuce and celery just ain't cuttin' it.

I've registered for the Navy 5 Miler in Sept. Am negotiating with a guy to buy his unuseable bib for the Army 10 Miler in October. Am considering registering for the Inaugural "Gynecological Cancer Foundation" half marathon in Nov. My daughter says, "yeah, let's do it!" My wife says, "Are you nuts?" The boodle already knows the answer to that question.

Posted by: Don_from_I270 | August 27, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Slyness, I have been working too much recently and not keeping up with the news, but I think I heard that Obama was going to speak at the mass. I hope that he takes this opportunity to go back to what is right for America and stop this "shadow boxing" with the Republicans.

What we really need is a single payer system.

I would, of course, applaud a public option.

I would also get UHC out of the fee setting business. (I think that has happened) ... the government, both Federal and states, have gone after that one and I believe they have paved the way to a solution on that.

As fast as possible, we need to also create care clinics that are publicly funded and/or actualized, to take on the ordinary care of those with limited insurance options.

The key is that all services should be paid for. The terminal patients shouldn't be the avenue for billing and loss/offset for hospitals. This will stop all the end of life madness that we now see.

Posted by: russianthistle | August 27, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

'Morning, Boodle.

I'm sorry, yello -- I was gonna let this go, but I just can't. You wrote that the Kennedys "were tragically flawed in the classic Greek drama sense." This is completely, utterly wrong. In Greek drama, the hero's flaw leads inevitably to his undoing, ruin, and ultimately his death. That's the entire point of Greek tragedy--the flaw causes the downfall.

While JFK was certainly flawed (as any human being is), his flaws in no freaking way led to his "downfall" (and separately I'd argue that an assassination most likely is NOT caused by a personal flaw, though one could make interesting arguments for some Shakespearean characters such as his Julius Caesar, and for Robert Penn Warren's Willie Stark...but that's neither here nor there.)

Furthermore, in Greek drama, the personal flaw is exhibited fairly early on, and the entire drama consists of watching that flaw play out and destroy the hero. In not one single Kennedy is this the case. In JFK's case, nearly all his flaws were well hidden and camoflaged at the time, and were not exposed to the public until after his death, sometimes decades after. (Stuff is STILL coming out 46 years later.)

In Bobby's case, his flaws were apparent early, but he pretty much overcame most of them, and in the last few months of his life he rose to a place and a height he'd never achuieved before in his life. This is the complete opposite of what happens in a Greek tragedy. In no ways did Bobby's flaws bring him down. If anything, he overcame them. His death was most surely the highest sort of tragedy -- just not a Greek one.

Of all the Kennedys, Teddy's flaws were easily the most publically apparent, and the most visibile early on. But in his case, too, and like Bobby, he managed to wrestle with them and overcome them. In no way can one say that a 47-year career in the Senate, and being the Lion of the Senate and the Conscience of the Left, Conscience of his Party, yadda yadda, be called a Greek tragedy.

Of all the Kennedy's Teddy sets the example of the need to separate the flaws of the private person from the public deeds. He is also the poster boy for the question of redemption, a trait one seldom finds in Greek drama. The tragedies in Teddy's life occurred not to him, but to others around him. He was the one who had to suffer them. And they didn't defeat him, far from it.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | August 27, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Good for you Don. I sometimes wish I could run (fake hip = no jogging), but then I remember that I was never very fond of it except for how I felt afterwards, which was invigorated.

No humidity this morning and much more livable temps. I had hot coffee, rather than iced for breakfast, for the first time in two weeks. Also dried all my hair instead of just the top. Going to meet an old college friend for lunch today, looking forward to it. I’m bringing pics of the family and she is too. She remarked that we will be sharing photos of people who are twice as old as we were when we met. Yikes!

Posted by: badsneakers | August 27, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

New Kit

Posted by: dmd3 | August 27, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Sneaks said, "Also dried all my hair instead of just the top."

Umm, what is this thing called 'hair', of which you speak?

Posted by: Don_from_I270 | August 27, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Howdy y'all. Fine rant, Weed, and nicely informed as well. Hello to Cora and everyone else.

Bacon on a stick. On vacation, I had a quesadilla filled with cheese, roasted green chiles, and smoked bacon. completely decadent. I could replicate this at home but will resist mightily. I am occasionally making the bacon-wrapped cream-cheese stuffed jalapenos, while they're fresh.

I am intermittently Boodling because the Laptop is Dead. however, the new one was delivered yesterday - Long Live the Laptop. Now Ivansdad just has to help it install everything. I'm afraid we'll have to take the Former Laptop to some Professional Geeks to retrieve the stuff on it which didn't get onto a flash drive before it expired. I'm very much hoping to get back Outlook Express with my adresses, email folders, older emails, etc., none of which I can currently reach. I've given up on the Outlook address book. Poor thing. Monday it put up a series of very alarming messages about inner drives and physical memory dumps. now it just blinks in a dazed sort of way that "P2" or perhaps "P12" has been installed. or something. Ivansdad ran all kinds of diagnostic disk tests on it, and it passed them all. then it giggled.

Posted by: Ivansmom | August 27, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

There is a new Kit.

Posted by: bobsewell | August 27, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Ted Kennedy more than made up for all his youthful indiscretions and he did work hard for the poor, the downtrodden, the weak and gave them opportunities. He had all the wealth to live off on because he had a trust fund. Even when he was stricken with cancer, he continued to work. Kennedy evolved into a great human being and we should forgive his sins now that he's passed. Kennedy loved his country and his countrymen and worked tirelessly for its general welfare. Trashtalk is not going to improve Ameirca.

Posted by: mstratas | August 27, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

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