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The Obama doctrine

Lots and lots of half-hearted, slow-motion clapping out there for the president's speech. Lots of "yes...but...." It's a war no one loves. Obama says it's not a quagmire, just, well, a steaming morass of boot-sucking muck that we will endeavor to escape as soon as humanly possible. He assured us that this escalator leads right to the Exit. We're surgin' on out of that place.

Lurking in this speech was something that might be called the Obama doctrine. I'm no expert on this sort of thing and will eagerly await the analysis of those who crunch doctrines for a living. But what I heard is a president saying that wars have to be seen in the context of everything else, including the economy. Wars don't get a blank check. Wars don't get to operate off-budget, as though they're in a parallel universe. Sometimes a limited war, in pursuit of narrowly defined goals, is all we can afford. Obama was quite explicit about his belief that nation-building should begin at home. In front of a military audience the president spoke at length about the economy that is the true foundation of our superpower status.

Obama:

I must weigh all of the challenges that our nation faces. I do not have the luxury of committing to just one. Indeed, I am mindful of the words of President Eisenhower, who - in discussing our national security - said, "Each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs."

Over the past several years, we have lost that balance, and failed to appreciate the connection between our national security and our economy. In the wake of an economic crisis, too many of our friends and neighbors are out of work and struggle to pay the bills, and too many Americans are worried about the future facing our children. Meanwhile, competition within the global economy has grown more fierce. So we simply cannot afford to ignore the price of these wars.

All told, by the time I took office the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan approached a trillion dollars. Going forward, I am committed to addressing these costs openly and honestly. Our new approach in Afghanistan is likely to cost us roughly 30 billion dollars for the military this year, and I will work closely with Congress to address these costs as we work to bring down our deficit.

But as we end the war in Iraq and transition to Afghan responsibility, we must rebuild our strength here at home. Our prosperity provides a foundation for our power. It pays for our military. It underwrites our diplomacy. It taps the potential of our people, and allows investment in new industry. And it will allow us to compete in this century as successfully as we did in the last. That is why our troop commitment in Afghanistan cannot be open-ended - because the nation that I am most interested in building is our own....

In the end, our security and leadership does not come solely from the strength of our arms. It derives from our people - from the workers and businesses who will rebuild our economy; from the entrepreneurs and researchers who will pioneer new industries; from the teachers that will educate our children, and the service of those who work in our communities at home; from the diplomats and Peace Corps volunteers who spread hope abroad; and from the men and women in uniform who are part of an unbroken line of sacrifice that has made government of the people, by the people, and for the people a reality on this Earth.

Wow. That's a clear departure from the standard war speech, no? Because the standard rhetoric for the commander in chief is to talk of paying any price and bearing any burden; of victory at all cost. But when Obama speaks of "the price of these wars," he's not being metaphorical. He is saying: Even a war has to pencil out. [And fyi, Friedman in the Times says AfPak doesn't.]

The Obama doctrine is the bad-economy version of the Powell doctrine. The latter called for using overwhelming force to achieve clear but limited objectives. Obama doesn't think he can afford (politically or budgetarily) the overwhelming part (and Afghanistan offers nothing comparable to the mission of throwing Saddam out of Kuwait), but he has embraced the idea of setting a limited objective and keeping the end in mind. Contrast that with Bush's second inaugural address, with its lofty rhetoric of igniting a wildfire of freedom across Asia.

This, then, is the answer to Andrew Bacevich's question in today's Post. Bacevich asks, "If Afghanistan is so critical to the well-being of the American people, then why set limits on U.S. involvement there?" Because even superpowers have to set limits when the economy has tanked. So says the Obama doctrine.

--

Also in the Post, William Kristol writes, "By mid-2010, Obama will have more than doubled the number of American troops in Afghanistan since he became president.... He will also have embraced the use of military force as a key instrument of national power." Actually, the number of troops has already doubled, from 36,000 as of Jan. 30 of this year to about 71,000 today, according to Pentagon numbers provided to Mike Allen of Politico. Some of that increase was in the pipeline already, ordered by Bush, but most of it was ordered up by Obama early this year.

Call that the Secret Surge.

--

Tiger apologizes. Case is closed. Let's move on, shall we?

By Joel Achenbach  |  December 2, 2009; 8:18 AM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Owning Afghanistan [updated]
Next: Afghanistan: Firm commitments and wiggle room

Comments

To paraphrase a certain law-and-order movie character:

"A superpower's got to know its limitations."

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 2, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

This is a very insightful article, Joel. I agree that if anything can be called a doctrine by a President who doesn't much care for doctrines, this recognition of context and limitations is it.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | December 2, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

I also like this column because it says something new I haven't read anywhere else. That's a real accomplishment in an environment like this.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | December 2, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Dither.
Deliberate.
Dither.
Deliberate.
Debate? Disagreement?

Decide.
Define mission.
Dwarf and discount opposition through showy display at West Point.
Delight the right; depress liberals.
Discrepant budget figures?
Direct tax?

Deploy.
Date certain for departure.
Dumb?
Disburse the money.
Disperse the troops.

Disrupt, destroy and dismember al Qaeda and the Taliban.
Drones?
Depose Karzai the Deceitful?

Drive up the deficit.
Decimate the budget.
Drawdown.
Disband.
Done after a decade?

Posted by: laloomis | December 2, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Going to the end of the last boodle for a minute....

Me? Start something? Can't be....

About that tiara...it seems to me it's been seeing a fair amount of Greek restaurants lately, and has seen some Italian joints every now and again. (I didn't take it with me on vacation, but they don't know football, only futbol.) Whichever of you two has it today, please note that it is expected to be returned *in pristine condition* next Tuesday am. And no, bc, EVOO is not to be used to make it sparkle.

Posted by: LostInThought | December 2, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Irradiated gemstones sparkle too, LiT... :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 2, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

(Psst. Joel said "pipeline.")

A good summary of our efforts, and the reasons for them initially, should be appropriate at this time.

A pathological government - the Taliban - aided and abetted resident foreign agents (Osama et al) who contributed to a series of successful terrorist attacks. We went in presumably to cause that pathological government to cease to function, and to cause the sheltered agents to also cease to function. At the time, transnational lines of funding were also to be identified and interrupted. Finally, the task was to prevent the reestablishment of these forces either there or elsewhere.

Just to be clear.

Marshall Plan mode is the best I can see also. Karzai's phony election is a tremendous blow against our long term interests, however. It was a horrible wound. I believe he must go before stability is possible, period.

Posted by: Jumper1 | December 2, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

News from here:

About 17,000 people making their way to a motivational seminar this morning. The day's roster of speakers will include George W. Bush. Huge traffic snarl-up along the roads leading to the AT&T Center.

San Antonio featured on Good Morning America this ayem. Sam Champion at various spots along the San Antonio River. Lighting of the River Walk, although officialy the lights were turned on the Friday after Thanksgiving, and the annual Christmas river parade was held that day, too.

Mayor Julian Castro in New York City this morning, a festive interview done by ABC's Robin Roberts. Must be a relief for Castro to get away from all the problems brought on by--and firings from-- our local utility board.

Seems the energy honchos knew for some time that the cost estimates from Toshiba for building the South Texas Nuclear Project (known as STP) were $4 billion more than projected. Utility officials kept the information under wraps this past summer when discussions took place about how much of a commitment San Antonio wanted to make to this nuclear project. Energy heads have been rolling.

San Antonio's Ed Whitacre now to head GM as interim CEO, after Fritz Henderson's departure yesterday. Whitacre spoke recently at Texas Lutheran University in Seguin, auditorium at capacity, as did Barbara Ehrenreich several weeks later.

Posted by: laloomis | December 2, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Considering the war, I don't even know what's right anymore. Everybody has a cogent argument, and everybody has an awful argument too. 9/11 happened when I was in high school; therefore the War on Terror has lasted my entire adult life. "Weary" and "mistrustful" do not begin to describe my feelings about this.

I am, however, still able to dredge up some strong opinions on people who are eager to ramp up anything war-related, but scream "deficit!" for anything that might have a chance to help a few people in our own country. Very, very strong.

Posted by: schala1 | December 2, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

The shrimp dip I left in the fridge is still good. Pop it in the nuke at 70% for a few minutes, until the cheese melts, then have at it.

Posted by: -jack- | December 2, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

This may well be the absolute most reprehensible tease head I've ever seen: "ABC: Breastfeeding deaths: Should mothers worry?"

Inside head on the ABC News page: "Breastfeeding Not to Blame for Recent Infant Death, Urge Experts
Co-Sleeping -- Not Breastfeeding -- May Be At Fault, Experts Say"

The story: "A mother may have accidentally smothered her child when she fell asleep while nursing on board a transatlantic flight last Tuesday, according to reports in the British media.

"United Airlines declined to confirm to ABCNews.com that an infant had died aboard one of their flights, but did say that flight 982 from Washington, D.C., to Kuwait last Tuesday, Nov. 24, was diverted to London Heathrow Airport due to an "ill passenger."

"But according to U.K. press reports, the unscheduled landing occurred after an Egyptian woman dozed off while nursing her 4-week-old infant and woke to find her child was pale and not breathing.

"While this rare scenario, if true, could alarm many mothers, pediatric experts caution that breastfeeding is safe -- and the episode should not discourage its practice.

"This has nothing to do with breastfeeding," says Heather Kay, a lactation consultant in Princeton, N.J. She says it's not the breastfeeding, but rather, the act of falling asleep while holding an infant that can lead to accendental death."

...

"Breastfeeding Not to Blame, Experts Say

"Though it is very rare [ya think? Jeez], this would not be the first time that sleep-nursing has resulted in accidental death.

"In 2006, British mother Lisa Briggs told the U.K. press that she accidentally smothered her child after falling asleep while nursing and said she had previously lost an infant under similar circumstances.

"Breastfeeding doesn't smother babies," says Dr. Ruth Lawrence, past president and founder of the Academy of Breastfeeding Medicine. "I don't know a mother who hasn't fallen asleep while feeding her child, whether nursing or bottle-feeding," Lawrence adds.

"Instead, Lawrence feels there must have other extenuating circumstances responsible for the death because "under normal circumstances, babies do not get smothered [while breastfeeding]."

Perhaps babies should come with warning labels on them (in multiple languages) cautioning mothers to remain awake during breastfeeding.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | December 2, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Agreed, 'Mudge, that's despicable... *SIGHHHHHHHHHHH*

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 2, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

FIFA announces the seedings for the Copa.

http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/revealed-finally-world-cup-seedings/?ref=sports


Charlize Theron will assist during the televised draw on Friday. I hope that bows aren't involved.

Posted by: -jack- | December 2, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

All very true. Of course financial considerations play a part. Clauswitzean theory is that wars should be fought in proportion to their political aim.

But he has to be careful, as too much bean counter talk does not go over well with grieving parents.

Posted by: engelmann | December 2, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Something else to consider here: How much of this speech was directed not at Americans but at other countries? What were the messages for them?

The Tiara's fine, Mudge, though it got tangled in my hair early on in the proceedings. Pretty much spent the night running around with me. I don't *think* anything happened to it that won't wipe off with alcohol. Hopefully a security photo won't surface showing a feather-covered werewolf wearing a tiara and a sly smile...

bc

bc

Posted by: -bc- | December 2, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Hey, isn't it time for a holiday BPH?

Say, on the 14th?

:-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 2, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

As Gladstone said: "[M]y first principle of foreign policy: good government at home."

Posted by: remant | December 2, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Ike had some things to say about the military industrial complex. And the guy in Joel's basement mumbled about foreign entanglements once. But nobody heeds warnings about land wars in Asia.

Posted by: yellojkt | December 2, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

On the off-chance that some missed the ramped-up Blair bashing lately, Tony slams, with some justification I believe, attitudes of U.S. military, and of course our leadership at the time. However, it also seems to me he's playing CYA.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/30/AR2009113002136.html

More in the Brit papers of course.

Posted by: Jumper1 | December 2, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Sounds good to me, Scotty.

Who else is in?

bc

Posted by: -bc- | December 2, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I dunno. Will you guys check me out on this? Does this Robin Givhans story give off the faint odor of a Sally Jenkins thing, with Givhans possibly working out a little private agenda against Rogers? What is it about this story I just don't like?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/01/AR2009120104544.html?hpid=topnews

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | December 2, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Liked this response from Robert Kaiser during his chat following Obama's speechlast night. (Did anyone read Andrew BAcevich's op-ed comments at the WaPo yesterday?):

Washington, DC: Mr. Kaiser, I have read all the live chats you have done after an Obama speech, and frankly, you seem more of a "fanboy" than an analyst. You're free to be as enthusiastic a supporter of the president as you want, but when you wear your professional hat, don't you think that you need to exercise some professional objectivity? Perhaps it would be best for you to have somebody more detached handle these chats. I mean no personal disrespect, but honestly, it's a bit embarrassing to read some of your comments.

Robert G. Kaiser: I'm trying my best! Seriously, my professional training and experience is at work here. What recent president do you remember who had this fluency with words or competence with complex issues? I don't agree with him personally on a lot of things, but the half-dozen or so speeches I've done chats about have, in my considered judgment, all been good rhetorical exercises.

I'd rather here a contrary analysis or interpretation from you than a criticism of me. More interesting.
***

Oh, I did forget something in my 10:10:
Death and disfigurement of American troops.

William Swanson, please know that I have forwarded your 10:20, along with comments, to Jodi Westrick, as well as to the ombudsman, at WaPo.

Posted by: laloomis | December 2, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

*trembling*

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | December 2, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

I couldn't even get through the Givhans piece, 'Mudge. I kept hearing yowls and hissing in the background...

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 2, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

I didn't watch the speech - was busy doing something fun instead. As I think I've noted before, the problem boils down to the fact that Afghanistan is essentially a country only on a National Geographic atlas. There is no cohesive government establishment for the country. Beyond Kabul, it's a series of tribal areas that basically run themselves. The Taliban are an extreme fundamentalist Islamic group, and I suspect that a fair percentage of the population doesn't have a problem with that. Our problem from the beginning here is that they generally agree with the tenants of Al Qiada, and have given them safe haven in the past. We can try and do what we can to peel off and supress the Al Qiada forces (only with real assistance from Pakistan). But there is no use even trying to convert the country into a thriving democracy. Try and clean out the bad guys and get out of Dodge. There is not going to be a clear-cut "win" here.

Posted by: ebtnut | December 2, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

1. Where were all these people during "little boy"'s stint (both of them) about both the death and disfigurement of American troops and the deficit?

2. It seems to me that the most gung-ho backers of military force in the first instance seem to be the ones who don't sign up for duty or have any family members in it (with minor exception).

3. When I was growing up, there was a lot of playing with toy soldiers. It is my sense that playing with toy soldiers (living or dead) is not the best way to get our collective a$$es out of Afghanistan, as "winning" (however that might be defined) is not a concept that is a "winner" with respect to Afghanistan. If we can get Pakistan to be force over there (and for our purposes), then I would suggest that that is a "win".

4. I don't really think that John McCain has a whole lot of credibility (at least for me) when it comes to war. Yeah, he's been in one, and yeah, he was a POW (as were many), but he only wants attention, and he gets that. Not my cuppa tea.

5. Don't know about the 14th, Snuke, but I'll put it on my calendar anyway. Might be able to make it, but not sure right now.

Any leftover pumpkin-something in the bunker?

Posted by: -ftb- | December 2, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

*waiting to be reported to the ombudsman (with comments) for being a human being*

Posted by: -ftb- | December 2, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

If that is truly the "Obama Doctrine" then I am all for it. But I still don't feel like Congress has made any effort to internalize it. Implicit in the idea that "wars are not free" and "can't be off-budget" is the idea that they actually need to be paid for. Running a $2T deficit for the forseeable future is not really, truly hewing to the idea that is expressed in that speech.

If they want to be intellectually honest, the Republicans are going to have to concede that taxes will have to be increased to pay for the war and the debt that we've run up over the past 9 years. The Democrats are going to have to concede that expansion of government will need to be scaled back dramatically and existing programs are going to need to be rationalized. (There's still the issue of the explosion of Medicare and Social Security payments in 20 years that no one has the will to address.)

Which is to say, someone is going to have to have a pretty stiff backbone and put country ahead of party. I see flashes of that in Obama. I don't see much of that in the Congressional leadership or their "loyal" opposition.

Posted by: Awal | December 2, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

i shudder at the thought of the left's "nation building" (i.e., social engineering) here at home.

if they are going to do nation building, let them do it over there.

Posted by: dummypants | December 2, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

The 14th sounds great to me, Scotty. I'm in. Son of G will be around then, too. Maybe Jodi will want to join us?

Posted by: -TBG- | December 2, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Obama plan is every bit as good as the Nixon plan. On every question Obama answers both true and false, so we know that he is always at least half right. He can always back off an answer after the event or give a half answer and make it look like he has given an answer. See I told you so. I thought everyone knew that. If only politics could win a war. But than again who said this was a war? Obama is still running for office and has not got to the point of, What next?

Posted by: artg | December 2, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Apparently I have lost the ability to read the articles I linked to. (shakes head at own misreading of who's criticizing whom.

Posted by: Jumper1 | December 2, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I just wish he had implicitly said, instead of clearly implying, that Bush kept the wars off budget. I think this is something folks need to hear outright.

Posted by: -TBG- | December 2, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Maybe even Andrew A. if we're lucky, TBG! :-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 2, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

If Mudge and ftb are getting something in their files today, I want one too! I'll take issue with the 'showy display at West Point' aspect.

GWB started down this road from there. It was a smart (but risky) strategy to choose that venue again. If pulled off (and I think he did), it would sort of draw the rounding out of the circle, not take it to a different audience...speak to the one involved from the outset. Don't run away, or look for a different audience to share your thoughts with, sort of dance with the one who brung ya. Taking the considered approach of 'you are where you are so deal with it.' Very presidential.

If the strategy of the venue had failed, it could have seemed a cheezy attempt to slap at Dub and distract attention from the plan itself. Besides, showy display was Dub's game.

Showy, I didn't see last night. Unless you're talking about the way they set up the shot so it was half American flag, half Presidential Seal behind him. I didn't like that...kinda distracting. But then again, I've been known to get distracted.

Which reminds me...tossing other's personal info out on the internet, regardless of whether a person has put it out there before, is so very crass. But you know this.

Posted by: LostInThought | December 2, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

I guess the Doctrine could be called "Fighting Terrorism on a Budget", but with a profound understanding that you can't let the Terrorist win by bankrupting this Country of its resources either.
I'm against the War because I don't think the Terrorists need to be in Afghanistan to plot against the US and supposedly there are only 100 or so Al Qaeda there anyway. So it's very lopsided in the costs greatly outweighing the benefits.

Posted by: palmettostatesman | December 2, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure the respective White House and West Point protocol officers had a "best out of three" wrasslin' match over the setup of last night's stage...

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 2, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Mr A: Of course Friedman would say something negative. NYT has had its non-rightist op/ed columnists hammering at the Afghan war for months. Kinda funny tho, given Friedman was for the war in Iraq.

Awal's 11:41am post makes a couple of valid points. However, there's not a lot of intellectual honesty on Capitol Hill these days and w/ unemployment over 10% Congress cuts back on social programs at its peril. Obama knows that and whatever spine Awal glimpses in him will disappear until after the 2010 election season.

How does this Obama Doctrine apply to health care? I see overtreatment of the well-insured as a prime issue.

Posted by: MsJS | December 2, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

obama's cinderella war

the war against al qaeda is a "vital national interest" obama says

and he is right

but then obama says the "vital national interest" disapppears in 18 months--july 2011 --just like cinderellla's coach turns into a pumpkin at midnight

it must be a coincidence that this is just before his reelection

obama does not understand--war is for keeps

war is not like cinderella's midnight curfew

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 2, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

beltway dictionary

the obama doctrine-noun--expletive

1. see achenblog

"wars do not get a blank check"

2. sarcasm widely quoted after dc, ny, and la were nuked by al-qaeda in 2010 "hows that oabama doctrine" ridiculing the obama who only was concerned about the cost of defense while giving poelosi literally a bklank check for pork stimulus

3. see penny wise and pund foolish

4. failure to recognize that when you are at war its like in poker when you are "all in"how much money was saved by the roman empire on defense befroe it collapsed??

why is the money relevant if you lose the war?

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 2, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Call it "common sense" or call it "logical", but PLEASE don't use the ridiculously overused word "doctrine". Ever since Truman there has been some weird need on the part of Washington commentators to find a "doctrine" in every president plus the occasional cabinet Secretary. Enough! Obama's views of the war is just based upon his reading of what is sensible. That's ALL one has to say.

Posted by: MitchellPolman | December 2, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

If it is an election campaign strategy, it's a pretty stupid one. He'll have absolutely zero wiggle-room on the timeline. If re-election were the name of the game, a better strategy would have been to put the date just *after* the next election, leave yourself the 'we're on target with our plan' argument *during* the election season.

Posted by: LostInThought | December 2, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Eisenhower hasn't been invoked very often. The Cold War president was known for a certain sort of caution (not aiding Hungarian freedom fighters) and a certain boldness (supporting Egypt rather than Britain and France over the Suez Canal).

The era's attitudes toward cities were odd. If I remember correctly. There seemed to be a belief that suburbia was less vulnerable to nuclear attack than the downtowns.

Posted by: DaveoftheCoonties | December 2, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm beltway dictionary needs beltway spellchecker turned on.

Posted by: kguy1 | December 2, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

seems to me that mr. obama continues to talk to us as if we were grownups and to ask us to behave as if we were grownups.

he didn't make this mess but now it is his and he has to do the best he can. this is adulthood--being responsible for things outside your control and recognizing that the outcome may be totally different than what you want or plan for.

my sense is that mr. obama continues to be far more intelligent, thoughtful, direct and open than anyone we have seen for the last eight or nine years.

some people aren't getting what they want, including me. we all have choices to make. for now, i will stick with mr. obama. throwing a tantrum will probably not get me, or any of the rest of us, where we want to go.

Posted by: butlerguy | December 2, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

There is no William Swanson on the boodle.

The only 10:20 post I saw was Mudge directly playing off your D list. I didn't know you took people riffing off your posts that personally.

I was reading yesterday that lonely people actually increase their loneliness because they become so hypersensitive to any hint of rejection, that they literally drive away people around them by taking everything too personally.

It was a sobering cup of coffee for me, because I've gone through phases like that. You might want to consider whether your reactions are good in the long run for your emotional health.

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | December 2, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Don't know what Mudge wrote but must agree with LiT.

Come on now. Joel has made a really interesting observation as to what extent economic necessity should temper national idealism. And this is worthy of serious discussion.

On the one hand I can see the argument that limiting our actions because of economic self-interest allows our enemies to better predict our behavior. Some suggest it is wise to make our enemies believe that we are not as straight-forward as that - so you best not mess with us too much.

But it is also, I assert, in our self interest to gradually reduce the expectations of our friends. Establishing limits might, one could argue, prod other nations to compensate.

And, of course, it does us no good at all if we end up so broke that we can't accomplish anything.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | December 2, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

What do you find odd about that, Dave? Nobody is going to nuke Tyson's Corner.

Back in the day, cities were of course going to be prime targets. But there was also a great deal of discussion with lots of graphics about things like blast radius, showing that if an H-bomb was dropped on City X, the blast radius would do such-and-such damage out to the 10-mile ring, such-and-such to the 20-mile ring, such and such to the 50-mile ring, and like that. Basically the theory was if you dropped a bomb at the city center, you were going to take out the burbs anyway. And if you took out the city, what was the point of being out in a distant burb anyhow? There never was a good reason to target the 'burbs.

Later on, with multiple entry (and smaller-yield) nukes, it came much more possible to selectively target things like individual silos. So that wasn't a question of targeting a suburb or a rural area (what's the point of taking out a soy bean field?); it was simply a question of taking out a missile silo, without regard to its surrounding envirnment, whether suburban or rural.

I grew up in a suburb outside Philly--but I always assumed that if they took out Philly, we were all toast, too. We had all those scarifying drills and crawling under our desks, etc. And we were only three or four miles from a picayune little Naval Air Station that would have been 999th on a Soviet targeting list. But we assumed it'd all be one big fireball.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | December 2, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

I grew up on Strategic Air Command bases and we laughed at "duck and cover" drills because we knew we had "firsties."

Posted by: kguy1 | December 2, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I grew up in the DC area, and thought that if I got myself under my desk fast enough, I'd be okay. But I didn't have high hopes...the boy behind me used to tie my ponytail to his desk.

Posted by: LostInThought | December 2, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

You know... they still do those drills.. under desks and against the hallway walls. Only now they call them "tornado drills."

Posted by: -TBG- | December 2, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

DC has intruder drills. Big gates that slam closed, kids with assigned jobs (doors, windows, kid counting), signals worked out.

Posted by: LostInThought | December 2, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Duck and cover is now the drill for "lock down exercises" at my kids school.

Posted by: dmd3 | December 2, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

(here is the post spellcheck version by request of kguy1 and the dnc--we only request they start using thought processors)

beltway dictionary

the obama doctrine-noun--expletive

1. see achenblog

"wars do not get a blank check"

2. sarcasm widely quoted after dc, ny, and la were nuked by al-qaeda in 2010 "hows that obama doctrine" ridiculing the obama who only was concerned about the cost of defense while giving pelosi literally a blank check for pork stimulus

3. see penny wise and pound foolish

4. failure to recognize that when you are at war its like in poker when you are "all in"how much money was saved by the roman empire on defense befroe it collapsed??

why is the money relevant if you lose the war?

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 2, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

ProCounsel, if war is not like Cinderella's curfew, explain to me why Bush I stopped the first Gulf War after exactly 100 hours (thereby leaving Saddam in place for another decade and giving his kid the heebiejeebies)?

Explain to me why Bush II declared "Mission Accomplished" when it wasn't?

Explain to me why both the Korean War and WWI ended with arbitrary-but-precise clock deadlines?

Explain to me why the first Arab Israeli War had a negotiated peace that last exactly 28 days? (June 11 to July 8, 1948, though I grant you Egypt violated it by jumping the gun by a full day) and that war ending with a series of armistices (Egypt, Feb.24; Lebanon, March 23; Jordan April 3; and Syria, July 20)? The Six-Day War ended on a negotiated deadline, as did the Yom Kippur War, when UN Resolution 338 called for a cease-fire that became set for Oct 22 at 6:52 p.m. Israeli time.

Wars have Cinderella deadlines all the time, PC. They just don't tend to be 18 months out, that's all. Who knows, maybe that'll turn out to be a good thing. Wars have all sorts of "rules" imposed on them all the time, whether internally or externally. There's nothing especially unsual about any of this.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | December 2, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Good news for journalism, maybe??

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/google-restricts-free-reading-on-pay-news-sites/

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 2, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Well, let me clue you in on what a joke reporting abusive comments to the Washington Post is. When I e-mailed a complaint on Nov. 13 to the e-mail address provided by the ombudsman in his column about Cheryl Kagan, the e-mail was bounced back to me as undeliverable.

The reason? The e-mail was routed to Kourtney Geers, who, it turns out, is--or was--a summer intern. Gee, do summer interns stay on staff--past the summer and well into November? I doubt it.

Moments later, Jodi Westrick e-mailed me, explaining that Geers was a summer intern. Never another reply from Westrick, who promised she was looking into the situation. Let's see, it took two days for the libelous comments about Kagan to be removed. Wonder how long it will take to remove William Swanson's 10:20 from this morning?

Marcus Brauchli's got a very weak newspaper--in more ways than one. If, as the omsbudman asserts, that the paper has no liability for things written by those who post, then provide the REAL names of those who come in under handles or pseudonyms. Have some sort of registration system for those too cowwardly to post under their real names. The New York Times seems to have a comments and a monitoring system that is exemplary.

Posted by: laloomis | December 2, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

butlerguy -- for your 12:58 post:

*FAXING TONS OF **HEARTS** TO YOU*

I totally agree with what you said (which will henceforth be sent to the ombudsman (with comments)).

I think it is the premise and expectation of adulthood here which has certain people's knickers in a knot.

Mudge, how are things in the bunker? Shall we check with the ombudsman?

Posted by: -ftb- | December 2, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Achenbach, are you serious?

The Obama Doctrine?

Does your sycophancy know no limit?

Wars spending has limits?
The Taliban, no doubt, broke out the big abacus up hearing this.

Quick let's use some of that stimulus money to get him a spot on Rushmore before he collects his Peace Prize.

The cost of Iraq and Afghanistan pales in comparison to social spending in this country. It shrinks even more if the Democrats socialize healthcare which typically costs 2x to 5x more than projected.
Here's the Obama Doctrine:

"I don't want us to be the world's superpower any more. I want to be Sweden."

That's it in a nutshell. If we abdicate that role, it will be filled by someone else and that someone is most likely China.

Republicans simply need to wait this one out. Democrats are handing it all back.

Posted by: maxtel1910 | December 2, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

the usa will hunt al-qaeda down and kill them

or al-qaeda will hit the usa, next time with a nuke

al-qaeda knows this

obama doesn't

there is no 18 month timeout for obama's reelection in this war

anyone who can't comprehend this is just obama doctrined

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 2, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Since Joel has already removed the 10:20 posting at Mudge's request, I can't really point out that I don't believe there was anything libelous in it.

Just because Mudge decided it was a little too snarky for his tastes doesn't mean there was anything really out of line or even close to libelous.

We joke around here; we poke fun at each other and at the news. You appear to try to play along, but then when someone plays along with you, suddently it's libel. Well it's not. Just like it's not libel when jack says he put shrimp dip in the bunker when he actually didn't.

What exactly did he say, Loomis, that has your knickers in a knot? (Ooops! Perhaps you don't wear knickers! I'd better call my lawyer!)

Posted by: -TBG- | December 2, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

PS... There really is no bunker. It's all made up! A joke, some would say. Get it?

Posted by: -TBG- | December 2, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

laloomis, locking your car doors when parked in the city doesn't make you a coward. Posting under a handle isn't a matter of being cowardly. It's that some may be reasonably protecting themselves against identity theft, or have themselves and children to protect in the off-chance some whackjob decides to show up at their vacation destination.

If you want to put your stuff out there, go to it. But don't be mistaken in believing that the only reason someone may keep their identitfying information off the internet is due to cowardice.

Posted by: LostInThought | December 2, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Uh-oh . . .

TBG, say it isn't so. . . .

No bunker???? You mean it's all made up?

*expletive*

Now you'll say that there is no Santa. . . .

*sob*

Posted by: -ftb- | December 2, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Shall we tell the ombudsman (with comments)?

Posted by: -ftb- | December 2, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

"DEAR JOEL: I am 8 years old.
"Some of my little friends say there is no Bunker.
"Papa says, 'If you see it in Boodle it's so.'
"Please tell me the truth: is there a Bunker?

"ftb.
"115 Swedish Chef Highway, Boodlestadtborg."

FTB, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, ftb, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, a Higg’s Boson, an event horizon, if you will, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge, and some fine cuisine on the side, not to mention knitting.

Yes, ftb, there is a Bunker. It exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, along with shop steward dues, Kincades and doilies, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Except the Kinkades. Let’s not get too carried away. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Bunker. It would be as dreary as if there were no ftbs. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry slams, no snark, no romance to make tolerable this existence. Mudge would have no tiara. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in the Bunker! You might as well not believe in fairy doors! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the forest during a full moon to catch bc turn into the Wolfman, but even if they did not see bc drinking at Trader Vics (his hair was perfect), what would that prove? Nobody sees the Werewolves of Loudon County, but that is no sign that there is no Wolfman. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see gnomes and service dogs dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

more

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | December 2, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

"You may tear apart the jalopy’s rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, curling, and poutine can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, ftb, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Bunker! Thank God! it lives, and it lives forever. A thousand years from now, ftb, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, the Bunker will continue to make glad the heart of childhood. Cuz we built that sucker to last."

-- Francis Pharcellus Churlish, Editor
The Bunker Bugle

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | December 2, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

I love this place!

Posted by: dmd3 | December 2, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

some of you might guess that i have been in trouble before. the ombudsman will have to take a number and please be seated until those in line ahead of her/him are finished kicking my @#% all over the lot.

as for the terrorists in afghanistan, if we are there for 18 more months or 18 more years it will not make a difference. they will run to pakistan or any other stan when it suits their purposes and use our self-imposed restrictions against us. since their goal is simply to kill as many americans as possible they are happy when we send more troops into their backyards.

there is a solution to this, but it is ugly and probably out of the question, and i would not want to start that kind of fight in this space.

Posted by: butlerguy | December 2, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

Posted by: -TBG- | December 2, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

and that mr. curmudgeon is a genius. wow.

Posted by: butlerguy | December 2, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Mudge, that was brilliant.

Posted by: badsneakers | December 2, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Perfect, Mudge, just perfect!

It can be Christmas now, I've caught the mood.

Posted by: slyness | December 2, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Oh believe me, ftb there's a Bunker.

As long as there's a fiber in my being, as long as I believe, for my mind, there's a Bunker for me.

In fact, I've often been accused of having my head in the Bunker when it should be elsewhere. (It's a little rough around the Bunker, in that little corner of southern Connecticut.)

bc

Posted by: -bc- | December 2, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Awwwwwwww, Mudge. What a sweetheart . . . . .

*sniff*

*blowing nose* Well, not really, or else I might be banished to the ombudsman (with comments).

*isn't this fun?*

But, well, actually, if we substitute "adult" for "child" it still, you know, fits.

Aww, Mudgekins -- now I can't get any work done, but I'm, you know, like, smiling a lot.

Dang, Mudge, you *are* goooooood.

Posted by: -ftb- | December 2, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

whatever happened to war bonds anyway?

Posted by: HardyW | December 2, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

They're in the bunker, HardyW. In the safe behind the third Kinkade on the right.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | December 2, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Tour de force, Mudge, tour de force par excellence.

HardyW, I don't know where the war bonds went but I bet MedallionofFerret would sell you some. With a side of Bunker.

MedallionofFerret, where are you when we need you?

Posted by: Ivansmom | December 2, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

So if that is his doctirine he must not believe in it because I see belief in a war against terror!!

Against the very teflon coated CIA freedom fighters come back as our worst nightmare. Any sane counry might stop and think "is it a good idea for the future to help create ideological and religious dogma addled freedom fighters from here on out?" Then say well we know Afghanistan is our Vietnam tailor fit to Russia so why try fitting in there too. How about just spending our money on some reasonable domestic security measures? Oh, we already are? Then let's get out of there fast and once they have cooled their idological fervor offer some assistance cleaning up and for pete's sake not destabilize Pakistan too!!!

Posted by: Wildthing1 | December 2, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Mudge, well done.

Posted by: engelmann | December 2, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

We are here
We are here
We are hereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
-- Horton Hears a Who. Those microscopic creatures? In the bunker. Verily. Verily.

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

RE: Schala1

am, however, still able to dredge up some strong opinions on people who are eager to ramp up anything war-related, but scream "deficit!" for anything that might have a chance to help a few people in our own country. Very, very strong.
*************
In making comparisons and arguments like the one above, which I have heard ad nauseum at this point, people are overlooking an obvious point. Our government does not make bullets, uniforms, jeeps, tanks, planes, missiles, satellites, drones, radar, humvees.....These are all products produced by private sector industries. As harsh a truth as it may be, the employees of these companies are earning paychecks, getting health benefits, retirement, and can afford to buy cars, refrigerators, TVs, which in turn helps others.

Money for government disbursed entitlements has the opposite effect, as it takes money out of the economy. I don't disagree that as a society, we should take care of those who need help. But by your analysis, using the money spent on military for entitlements, we would only be creating more people that need entitlements.

In short, the cost of a fighter jet does not translate dollar-for-dollar if used for health care, or food stamps. The rhetorical argument about spending on the war rather than social programs is tenuous, at best

Posted by: hsroth1 | December 2, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

As God is my witness, I'll never go bunkerless again!

Posted by: rickoshea1 | December 2, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

gen mc chrystal--

its the fourth quarter, the other team is ahead and trying to run out the clock

but you have the ball, you are the quarterback

and you have the best team

yes, the coach is stupid--what can you do? its the obama doctrine

but the coach won't be on the field, indeed he won't even take your calls so

you can win this

this is why you are the quarterback

for such an hour as this

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 2, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Too bad this is one of the month's first Kits, else 'Mudge might have titled that "Miracle in the 34th Boodle," no?

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 2, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

What do you think people buy with food stamps haroth? Or don't farmers, canning plant workers, truck drivers and grocery store clerks deserve a pay check as much as tank builders and defense contractors? I suppose there's always that pesky problem of what to do with all the people in the food industry when the need for sustenance is over.

Missed all the excitement, shame too. Mudge is always a good read when he gets snarky.

Let's not confuse pseudonymous with anonymous. They aren't at all the same thing.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | December 2, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

jaxmax--yes i know achenblog is not in the print version

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 2, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Really, what does it matter what Obama says? He never tells the truth anyway. Whatever he promises he ends up not doing, and what he promises NOT to do, he does.

On Jan. 15, 2008, in a Democratic debate, Obama told us he had put forward a plan to get our troops OUT of Iraq by the end of 2009.

OBAMA: "I have put forward a plan that will get our troops out [of Iraq] BY THE END OF 2009." http://tinyurl.com/67nhtg

Well, that bit of false promising helped him to win votes on Super Tuesday, didn't it? -- but the troops he said he would have OUT of Iraq by the end of 2009 are STILL THERE.

Posted by: turner1 | December 2, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

hmmmmmmnnnnn........

wonder if terrorist ksm will countersue in the holder obama showtrial in nyc if obama does not leave afghan by 7-11

breach of contract or whatever

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 2, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I refute that there is no bunker. I was just there! Although it's true Jack fibbed about leaving the snacks.

Posted by: Jumper1 | December 2, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

hsroth, what about all the people employed by the medical profession, or could be employed if more money were available for treatment and research, how about the lost productivity because people are not getting medical conditions treated properly>

Just a thought.

Posted by: dmd3 | December 2, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

We're actually lucky Obama has been alerted to the dangers of nuke terrorism by commenters on Achenblog.

Posted by: Jumper1 | December 2, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

how the july 2011 exit date was chosen.......

see, messiah obama was being driven to a golf course and passed a convenience store--a 7-11

where the little people go

"thats it" said the messiah

7-11 July 2011

it was literally and figuratively a sign

Posted by: ProCounsel | December 2, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Now here we go with this "messiah" crap.

Posted by: Jumper1 | December 2, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

You're right, Jumper. Were it not for these perceptive and well-informed posters I'm sure Obama would never have had the opportunity to consider the possibility of nuclear terrorism.

Posted by: Ivansmom | December 2, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

ProCounsel, your 3:36 PM was really ProFound.

bc

Posted by: -bc- | December 2, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Teddy Roosevelt's doctrine was "Speak softly and carry a big stick".

Obama's doctrine is "Speak softly and act like a wimp".

Posted by: mike85 | December 2, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I know, Mike85. We should give all our troops in Afghanistan lots of big sticks. Scare the crap out of them heathen savages.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | December 2, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

This is really tedious.

Listen up new comment writers, if you're going to remain slavishly on topic at leasts be clever, insightful, or deft with a turn of phrase. Otherwise, what do you have in the way of recipes for venison? We do appreciate a good marinade around here.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | December 2, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

BTW, "steaming morass of boot sucking muck" qualifies as a deft turn of phrase.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | December 2, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

SCC-leasts should be least

Posted by: frostbitten1 | December 2, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Yanno, I never thought of this until just now. But Teddy Roosevelt never *diid* speak very softly. Kind of a loud, booming kinda guy, very hale fellow. Not at all shy and bashful.

Apparently didn't follow his own advice.

Ironic, ain't it?

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | December 2, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

And he carried a saber, too...

Ironicer and ironicer.

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 2, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

In the "I read so you don't have to department"
"Jason Maloni, Vice President and head of the Sports and Entertainment subpractice with Levick Strategic Communications was online Wednesday, Dec. 2 to take all your questions about the effects of Tiger Woods' admissions of 'transgressions' on his image and endorsement deals."

The only line worth reading in the whole transcript was-
"And if John Daly can't bring down a sport, it's hard to imagine what will."

I'm also testing the theory that only Yoki is targeted by the too frequent posting screen.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | December 2, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't that be a hard C, like ironiker?

BTW Scottynuke I got misself a new zero-turn lawn mower so I'll need tank-driving lesson next summer. What are your vacation plans?

Posted by: shrieking_denizen | December 2, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, where *is* Yoki?

Predictably excellent posts, frosti.

Posted by: -ftb- | December 2, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I think it might be time to go hunker in the bunker. Anyone want to join me?

Posted by: -ftb- | December 2, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

I'll check with NukeSpouse, Shriek...

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 2, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Could a short moustachioed/mustachioed President be elected today? Discuss.

Posted by: shrieking_denizen | December 2, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

With apologies to Ian...

Let's Hunker in the Bunker
Well that's alright by me
I'm a tiger when I wanna Boodle
I'm a snake if we disagree

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 2, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

ftb, already there, come on in. What are you drinking tonight? Jack's shrimp dip is gone, but I brought spinach dip with rice crackers for those of us with gluten issues.

Posted by: slyness | December 2, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Nice angle for a piece. The problem with weighing the economic prices of war as a considerationg for going into it runs the risk of letting a bad and costly problem fester into a disaster of unbearable cost. Let me put this in liberal terms- you know how preventative medicine is supposed to save on long term health care costs? Well taking out a small problem early with little dithering and argument over cost can save you from having to go in later when it is worse.

The real problem with this kind of doctrine coming from Obama is he has exactly zero creditibility on fiscal sanity. For instance I think he has no issue at all with running up another $800B pork stimulus package that accomplishes exactly zero, but he will need to spend a lot of time dithering and deliberating over a $30B troop surge to guarantee Afghan police and withdraw properly from Afghanistan. It makes no sense.

I think while a decison to end involvement in Afghanistan in a responsible fashion may be defensible, generalizing cost considerations in Afghanistan to a doctrine is foolish. Afghanistan is a worthless wasteland that will never amount to anything of value, and a 20 year democracy effort there is folly. But other nations like Iraq can stand on their own and will draw regional aggressors who seek out its material wealth, and it does make sense to bulwark such places with democracy to serve as a longterm solution to a potentially severe problem. You can get away with rolling the tanks into Afghanistan every 10 years to stomp out the refuse, but you can not afford to do that in Iraq. If Iran annexes large portions of it, well, that is going to be a big problem. Nobody really cares much if anyone grabs Afghanistan, other than say if the Taliban does, because they will just roll out the welcome mat for terrorist training camps. Frankly it would be great seeing Iran grab a problem like Afghanistan and saddle themselves with that concern, and distract them from developing nukes to irradicate Israel.

Imagine if you will that the future holds Iran nuking Jerusalem and setting off a 3rd world war. At what point should we take action? Should we take action before they acquire nukes? Should we take action when they weaponize nukes on missiles? Should we take action when they nuke Israel? What is the most cost effective solution? How long should we use cost considerations to avoid resolving problems?

Posted by: Wiggan | December 2, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Wiggan,
irradicate?

Posted by: shrieking_denizen | December 2, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

SD, I think the more interesting question is can a woman with one be elected.

Posted by: LostInThought | December 2, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

I didn't specified the gender of the President in question LiT. That is an interesting curveball.

Posted by: shrieking_denizen | December 2, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Not only is there a bunker, but I have a picture of it.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p156/yellojkt/boodle/BunkerHotel.jpg

Posted by: yellojkt | December 2, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Is someone planning a Draft Frida Kahlo Committee?

Posted by: yellojkt | December 2, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Love that picture, yellojkt.

Posted by: seasea1 | December 2, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Ohhhh, yello . . . .

*double snort*

Posted by: -ftb- | December 2, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Yello, that's just what it looked like when I was there!

TR was short, mustachioed, and four-eyed! Don't forget the glasses. When did we last elect someone who wore glasses?

Of course, after contacts, relatively few people wear glasses all the time. Perhaps the question is just an anachronism.

Posted by: Ivansmom | December 2, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

IM -- I wear glasses all the time! Hated contacts; Love frames. Have several for the different moods:

German black Sprockets frames

Middle of the road PTM mom glasses

Green glasses I adore and save for sp. occasions as they are wearing out

Need some rhinestone cat eyes....must have a goal.....

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Whoops. PTA PTA PTA....actually, PTO...did you know that PTA is an official organization that copyrighted this name?

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Imom, I think the answer would be Truman, for the last one who wore them regularly in public.

Otherwise, the unfortunate answer may be found here:

http://www.freakingnews.com/George-W-Bush-Glasses-Pictures-42152.asp

Posted by: rashomon | December 2, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

In the olden days, our schools have
Home and School Committees

H&S -- which is what was marked on the 'fridge calendar ....I used to think that meant that that was the day to go the H&S green stamp redemption center. Oh, the delight the year we "bought" a GAF Talking View Master. Henry Fonda explains here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66Tv004JPV0

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Whoops. That commercial is a spoof. Here is the real one, with Jodie Foster in it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5QGd-0X3bg&feature=related

Ok- back to the Obama decision. Will try to have a comment later.

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Wiggan says "stimulus package that accomplishes exactly zero." I dunno. In this neck of the woods the stimulus package is directly responsible for a lot of state and municipal shovel-ready projects like highway repair, road and sidewalk reconstruction, and replacement of city pipes and sewers which otherwise could not have been done. All that, and related stimulus construction, has saved or created jobs for the workers, their suppliers, and the suppliers' workers. Stimulus money has also helped winterize houses for old & poor people, fund some education programs, and kept some social services programs going. All those services also created or saved jobs. All those people who got the jobs with stimulus money then have more money to spend in our local economy, on food and gas and incidentals and whatnot.

Of course, we're just a mid-size city in the middle of the country, in a relatively poor (and firmly red) state without much national clout. I guess maybe places like this weren't what Wiggan had in mind. We like to think we count, and here the stimulus is definitely accomplishing good things.

Posted by: Ivansmom | December 2, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

PTA is a trademarked name like Little League®. Our schools have a PTSA because students can join as well. Jeannie C. Riley ruined the image of PTAs for me forever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOZPBUu7Fro

Posted by: yellojkt | December 2, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Oh, I forgot - a big chunk of stimulus money is going to help state-owned businesses, large and small (which is most of them), as well as local economic development to encourage new business ventures. All this - dare I say it - also creates jobs, which then benefit the local economies. Again, maybe that's not what Wiggin had in mind, but it sure seems to be doing some good here.

Posted by: Ivansmom | December 2, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

I like "irradicate" as a very apt portmanteau. Methinks that's exactly what Iran would like to do to Israel. Irradiate and eradicate.

Posted by: Awal | December 2, 2009 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Actually, CQP, the PTA would have registered a *trademark* of those letters as they appear.

Never tried contacts. I have dry eye anyway, so I'm pretty sure that contacts would be uncomfortable. Four-eyes is/are fine with me.

BTW, I continue to be amazed that so many people seem to know what to do about foreign policy . . . and, yet, they don't seem to want to be part of the policy making in (wait for it) *real life*. Because, perhaps, that would be *elitist* or sumpin.

Time to do something in regard to dinner.

Posted by: -ftb- | December 2, 2009 6:09 PM | Report abuse

After such a Boodle-day, it is lovely to hear of CquaP's cheerful green glasses and Ivansmom's always-informed view from the middle of the country.

Here's wishing us all a happy and contented evening.

Do you think it is OK to serve an almost-all white meal so long as everything tastes really good? Pork tenderloin with wine-mushroom sauce over egg noodles, green asparagus and a slaw of celery root, gruyere and apple matchsticks. Shall I bring it into the bunker?

Posted by: Yoki | December 2, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

IMom,I saw on the TV today that one of your state's senators came up for a new meaning for 'sooner.'

Posted by: bh72 | December 2, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Yoki,

If you're really worried about color, put a little parsley on the pork and leave some skin on the apples. You're in business.

And mail me some. The bunker is a long drive for me, and I always forget the secret knock.

Posted by: Awal | December 2, 2009 6:15 PM | Report abuse

If the Holiday BPH scheduled for Monday 14 December does indeed materialize, I am pleased to report that I shall be in attendance.

Posted by: RD_Padouk | December 2, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

The bunker (yes... there IS one... I'm sorry about that) doesn't have a secret knock. It has passwords.

In your case, Awal, the password is A-w-a-l.

Posted by: -TBG- | December 2, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

I can do better, Awal; I'll borrow Scotty's magic fax. Coming over now...

Posted by: Yoki | December 2, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

If you're to be in attendance, RD, then it SHALL materialize!

Posted by: -TBG- | December 2, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

I'm scared to ask, bh72.

Yes, Yoki, that's a perfectly acceptable meal. I'll be happy to help consume it.

In the past I've made considerably less interesting one-color meals. For instance, the Orange-Yellow meal includes box macaroni & cheese and raw baby carrots, with a side of apple & maybe banana. Toddler food, anyone?

Posted by: Ivansmom | December 2, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

This will be Canada's new role in Afganistan, very serious stuff, but the name of it - is bringing out my inner child.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/canada-to-form-doughnut-of-stability/article1385386/

Posted by: dmd3 | December 2, 2009 6:37 PM | Report abuse

If RD_P is in, then I'm coming too!

Posted by: rickoshea1 | December 2, 2009 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Yoki, follow the sage wisdom from the man-cave:

All white and furry, ditch it in a hurry
All white and no fur, that’s a good left-over.

Posted by: engelmann | December 2, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

For all those who have neodymium magnets about the house (and that is everyone, right?) here is a fun and easy way to entertain yourself for hours!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homopolar_motor

and a cool vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2f6RD1hT6Q

A friend showed me this at work. And wow, is my wife ever happy he did!

Posted by: RD_Padouk | December 2, 2009 6:42 PM | Report abuse

I think my response to hsroth got et by some filter or another. I swear I wasn't swearin', honest!

But it boiled down to: certainly employees in war businesses are paid, and that circulates back into the economy. (Let's pretend that all of these employees are American buying American products, which I'm not sure of. But anyway.) Thing is, as other boodlers have pointed out, entitlements as you call them also circulate back into the economy.

Is war not in danger of becoming an entitlement program for war businesses? If we created an alien-invasion defense program, lots of people would be employed in lots of businesses, but their lives would be lacking the things those alien-defense dollars should have been spent on: whether it was lower taxes or something which benefited society.

Go to google images and type in "Death and Taxes 2010" for a handy budget chart. Larger circles represent higher spending. See for yourself what the biggest tick is sucking away government funds.

I do think certain wars and certain military exercises are necessary, to a point. My personal opinion is that we are so far past that point it's nothing but a little twinkle on the horizon behind us.

Posted by: schala1 | December 2, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

"Sometimes a limited war, in pursuit of narrowly defined goals, is all we can afford."

If you think that the US economy is in worse shape today than it was when, during the Great Depression, the USA entered WWII, you are mistaken.

Limited war is not all we can afford, it's just all we're willing to commit to, given the limited threat we face.

Posted by: douglaslbarber | December 2, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

RD's going to be there? Count me in!

Posted by: LostInThought | December 2, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Frostbitten, I use buttermilk, juniper berries, coriander, and onions and marinate the venison for 2-3 days in the fridge. Ihope this comment does not offend anyone.

Posted by: notquite | December 2, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

That's an interesting recipe, notquite. Buttermilk would help with the metallic taste, but I've never had juniper berries in any recipe.

How does juniper taste?

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | December 2, 2009 7:13 PM | Report abuse

I Mon, Senator Coburn ended a speech that the health care bill 'will result in people dying Sooner.'

TV pundents picked up 'Sooner.'

Posted by: bh72 | December 2, 2009 7:16 PM | Report abuse

This is a report of a cool site to organize your travel files.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/technology/personaltech/03basics.html?hpw

Posted by: rickoshea1 | December 2, 2009 7:16 PM | Report abuse

Notquite, you're talking food there. Recipes. Technique. That's unlikely to offend any Boodler.

schala, "Is war not in danger of becoming an entitlement program for war businesses? ": back in the Dark Ages we called it the Military-Industrial Complex.

Posted by: Ivansmom | December 2, 2009 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Like gin. I approve.

Posted by: Yoki | December 2, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

dmd... "Canada to form 'doughnut of stability'" may be one of the best headlines ever.

Posted by: -TBG- | December 2, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure doughnuts are the appropriate pastry. Perhaps a maple bar of stability?

Posted by: rashomon | December 2, 2009 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Groan, bh72. Plenty of people here die "Sooner". If we had more people insured with better access to health care, maybe some of them would die Later.

Posted by: Ivansmom | December 2, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

notquite-sounds tasty, thanks. I intend to continue to dodge offers of gifts of venison, but someone always gets me before winter is over. Without dead pets in the freezer I have no ready excuse not to accept.

re: doughnut of stability. Is there a Tim Horton's tie in?

Posted by: frostbitten1 | December 2, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

I am another one who wears glasses all the time. The options for someone my age are: monocular vision, one eye long sighted, the other short sighted (mine is bad enough as is, can't think that would be better), contacts with reading glasses (why bother?), or glasses. I may look into bifocal contacts sometime, but I just don't see having surgery or contacts and having to wear reading glasses.

Once upon a time, Mr. T had a business trip to Sweden and I accompanied him. The hosts took us out to one of the islands in the Stockholm archipelago for dinner. The entree was reindeer tenderlion. It was the best, most tender meat I ever put in my mouth.

Posted by: slyness | December 2, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

This link shows the number of Canadians killed around the 'donut.'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/gmaps/afghanistan/

The area is described a 'lush' but the only photos I ever see are always desert and mud huts. Is there actually green there?

Posted by: bh72 | December 2, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

OK, so it's set...

Holiday BPH on Dec 14 at McCormick & Schmick's at 1652 K St, NW.

(Valet parking begins at 5:00.) Whoever gets there first, grab a table or two please!

Posted by: -TBG- | December 2, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Awwww... so early in December.

Posted by: Wilbrod_Gnome | December 2, 2009 7:52 PM | Report abuse

bh72, it's the land of the 10 foot glaucoma medication plants:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15239501/

Posted by: engelmann | December 2, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

Canadian doughnut(s) of stability. I am so comforted. And, can pursue svelte-ness as I must because, principally, the doughnuts remain out of reach across the border.

Bravo NorthrenBrethrenSistren!

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

I just began wearing glasses and love them; they are no-line trifocals. When I was younger I had 20:15 vision and my optometrist did a great job of duplicating that-for distance, computer, and reading.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | December 2, 2009 7:54 PM | Report abuse

I have eaten juniper berries in a potato-gratin dish. Swedish, I believe. Lovely and interestingly odd.

Keep posting, oh venison-o-phile boodler.

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 7:55 PM | Report abuse

bh, maybe when the poppies are up. *rim shot*

I think before the Soviet invasion there were parts of Afghanistan that were beautiful. It's a shame.

I like toddler food!

Posted by: seasea1 | December 2, 2009 7:58 PM | Report abuse

The Canadian Doughnut of Stability
aka The Tim Horton Line

D'Oh!

Posted by: yellojkt | December 2, 2009 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Maybe even a BeaverTail of stability?

Posted by: rashomon | December 2, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

The conservative blog Robbing America calls him "a reluctant warrior". Do you know what happens to "reluctant Warriors"? They lose. RA also says - http://www.robbingamerica.blogspot.com - that the Taliban are now "dancing in their sandals". Wouldn't you be? If your enemy says that is definitely going home in a year and change. These people don't have an election to win in 3 years and they have no where to go. Obama will lose that election because war losers do not win elections; the Taliban would not like that - Obama losing the election I mean, they would want to keep their "reluctant Warrior".

Posted by: JohnGalt9 | December 2, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

I keep thinking of the swim rings embedded within a nylon swimsuit that CPDots 1 and 2 wore. And, all this donut stability is backgrounded by some chorus of Royal Mounties singing....this line, particularly:

We stand on guard for thee!

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 8:07 PM | Report abuse

I grew up on venison, but blacktail. My Dad butchered. Very very dry and tough. Fried way Dad liked it. But with boiled potatoes and gravy and not knowing any better, who knew?
Venison five days a week, hotdogs and fried left over potatoes on saturday and fried chicken on sunday?
September weekends were devoted to putting a few bucks in our 16 cubic foot chest freezer.
We always got 100 chicks mail order in the spring that resulted in about 10 pullets for eggs and a freezer full of chickens Mom butchered.
After high school she worked a while at the Brookville Inn on old highway 40 in Kansas and learned excellent chicken frying.

Had 'venison' in Scotland several times while working there. Always good but their 'venison' was from red deer like elk. Is elk venison?

Posted by: bh72 | December 2, 2009 8:08 PM | Report abuse

engelmann, I see an economic plan for Afghanistan! Seriously, seems like medical marijuana and morphine is the way to go. And those hats - love the Afghani hats.

Posted by: seasea1 | December 2, 2009 8:10 PM | Report abuse

BH -- grew up with seven to 12 deer hung in the outbuilding each year. Not our deer but the neighbors. I think I ate venison in sausage but was not revealed by mother. I stumbled into the building one October to the stunning array of

Bambi
Faline
The Prince of the Forest
Mrs. Prince of the Forest
Ronno
Gobo
Aunt Ena
Gino and Gurri (Bambi's twins)

And, well, not that year but another year, Thumper and cousins in the backyard too. For dinner. But, they were not invited exactly. Yet, there.

And, yes, tis a Wikipedia category called "fictional deer and moose".

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Did y'all know we're supposed to get snow this weekend?

Posted by: -TBG- | December 2, 2009 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Who knew that the comments section of the Achenblog was haunted by remorseless carnivores whose only break from relentless bambi-eating is the occasional Canadian doughnut of stability?

I am highly offended, emphasis on "high"...LOL

Posted by: douglaslbarber | December 2, 2009 8:34 PM | Report abuse

Some might say we lost this war as soon as we started the [darned] thing. I would certainly love to know what winning would consist of. (Something tells me the answer is "the media declaring it won while a Republican is in office.")

Sorry, dear Boodle, here I am being bitter all over your venison and juniper berries. Wikipedia tells me that the word gin comes from genever, the Dutch word for juniper. Juniper berries are the primary flavor in gin. So I suppose if you've had gin, you now have an idea of how juniper berries taste. Maybe not useful knowledge, but certainly interesting.

Posted by: schala1 | December 2, 2009 8:39 PM | Report abuse

As a poor young college student I ate a lot of venison and hand harvested wild rice. It was not wanting to hunt and harvest for my food that encouraged me to graduate.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | December 2, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

ftb-I loathe Nathan.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | December 2, 2009 8:44 PM | Report abuse

douglaslbarber gets us!

Posted by: -TBG- | December 2, 2009 8:45 PM | Report abuse

Gin
Ginever
Gineva
Ginevra
Guinevere
...
...
...
Eventually

Jennifer, which rhymes with Juniper, which could be why Donovan gave us this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCtcXDCxh7w


Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

The sooner we get out of Afghanistan the sooner the depressed burqa industry can recover there (it's their equivalent of General Motors), and the nascent cold-distilling movement can advance here (see http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/dining/02curious.html?hpw ).

Sounds like a win/win to me.

Posted by: douglaslbarber | December 2, 2009 8:49 PM | Report abuse

CollegeQuaParkian1, In our area, Northern California, only forked horn or better were fair game. 4 pointers to easterners or six pointers if they had eye guards.
We always heard that does were taster but mucho men never shot a doe.
Got my first one, 4x4 with eye guards, when I was eleven.

Posted by: bh72 | December 2, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

BH -- we ate mule deer. And, yes, limits on the catch. My neighborhood was speckled with people who lived on deer meet from Jan through April. My dad did not have the heart for hunting, but would go along to give the group a chance at another deer. We had the out building, so that was where the deeds were done. He fished like a crazy man and we ate that constantly: Brook, Rainbow, Brown, Grayling, Lake Trout and very occasionally Bass. We also ate froglegs and crawdads while camping.

Grayling smell like thyme, really.

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 8:59 PM | Report abuse

I've got a quarter of a deer in my freezer. I make a killer deer steak with a red wine reduction, and have found that ground deer makes an excellent baked ziti. (I learned when I moved here that thare ain't no venison runnin' round those woods, those be deer.)

Yoki, when I think of a all-one-color dinner, I think chocolate layer cake (with more than a hint of coffee) with a Bailey's Frosting. If it's been that kind of day, I'll have it with a Frangelico.

Posted by: LostInThought | December 2, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

And fresh rainbow smelt from the Atlantic or the Gulf of St-Lawrence smells like cucumber, really.

I had a friend whose father discover beef in the army, after 20 years of moose meat.

Posted by: shrieking_denizen | December 2, 2009 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, me too, frosti. Glad he's out. But I gotta tell ya, it's tough seeing Noelle go. And that she and Kathryn were in the bottom two, I thought was interesting. But the girls are *so* good this season -- I couldn't imagine any of them being kicked off.

What I think will be really terrific is seeing Ryan and Ashley do a Latin Ballroom number -- that's what they're made for. I think it will blow the top off the building.

Prediction (or, at least my wish list) for the finals (if the teens and tweenies don't screw it up):

Jacob
Ellenore
Kathryn
Russell

The others are really good, too. Geez -- in my world the name of the show would be: "Don't You Wish You Could Dance"

I might be able to make it to the BPH on the 14th after all. Gimme Shelter!

Posted by: -ftb- | December 2, 2009 9:10 PM | Report abuse

We are in complete agreement ftb.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | December 2, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

TBG, better stock up on the toilet paper and milk now! Seems like we've got enough venison (who knew?).

Cold and clear here. We had frost this morning! Snow is staying in the mountains, as far as I know.

Posted by: seasea1 | December 2, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse

It's really strange. My Dad grew up on a cattle ranch in Kansas rasing. registered Angus breeding stock. He had the Kansas state champion angus steer 1929 and his father the state champion bull.
The depression crushed him.
I never tasted a good steak until I was a junior in college at a Fresno State engineers club meeting at a local restaurant.
Man what I had been missing.

We also ate a lot of trout and black bass. When Shasta Lake first backed up it was planted with big mouth black bass and we had a boat. In the spring we got a lot of them. My job as to clean and fillet them before they were pan fried with a crisco and corn meal.

Posted by: bh72 | December 2, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

"Wars don't get a blank check. Wars don't get to operate off-budget, as though they're in a parallel universe."

Would that that logic apply across the board to unaffordable Health morasses and buying GM and propping up the crooks in Barney-Mac and Barney-Mae.

Posted by: PanhandleWilly | December 2, 2009 9:32 PM | Report abuse

I would also add that I think deer/venison is quite good in chili, either as the Primary Protein or as a component in my 4-meat chili (beef, poultry, pork and deer).

Hopefully, you're getting better cuts than I, and don't need to marinade it much (primarily red wine - I won't use a cola as I've seen some folks do) before tossing it in the pot/.

Oh, boy - this Holiday BPH should be *good.*

bc

Posted by: -bc- | December 2, 2009 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Padma is showing her baby bump. Hawt.

Posted by: yellojkt | December 2, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

How I wish I'd been Boodleside sooner, to reply to LiT; I too share this chocolate thing, but mine is red. Dark chocolate and raspberries and red wine. A sort of rich sensual red/black screen, haze. Like watered silk, all in red and black.

Posted by: Yoki | December 2, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Watered silk, perfect, Yoki.

FOUND QUOTE:
That unnameable something, desire for which pierces us like a rapier at the smell of bonfire, the sound of wild ducks flying overhead, the title of The Well at the World's End, the opening lines of "Kubla Khan", the morning cobwebs in late summer, or the noise of falling waves.
UNFOUND

C.S. Lewis, "Afterword to the Third Edition," The Pilgrim's Regress: An Allegorical Apology for Christianity, Reason and Romanticism (Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1992).

The year and the decade is receding, which puts me in a nostaglic mood of longing -- what was but not quite. Must be mid age and mid winter.

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 10:43 PM | Report abuse

Yoki -- watered sick is moire, typically a silk or silk-cotton blend of taffeta. The wavy light pattern is often seen in bird feathers. Proof of the existence of the (fabrical) gods.

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 10:45 PM | Report abuse

watered SILK....magnified graphic
http://www.fifi.org/doc/gimp-manual/html/Plugin_render-image-45.jpeg

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 10:48 PM | Report abuse

French blue sack-back gown at the height of watered silk fashion:
http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/18cnel%20grand/Blue%20moire%20LACA.htm

Robe a la francaise or sack-back gown. France c. 1750-1760

I shall wear this in the bunker for the staff holiday party.

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 10:55 PM | Report abuse

Death by fabric (not venison)

Benison to all.

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 10:56 PM | Report abuse

But, also, lovely College, a raw beet held up to late afternoon sun, peeled. A moment when as in silks we go as Julia did.

And, then, just literary moments. Remember the dove-gray. The black. The lilac silk of just-out-of-mourning.

I imagine it all. I own every moment, in silk and thought, remembering sweetness and beauty.

Posted by: Yoki | December 2, 2009 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Venison summer sausage. I'm there.

Just finished backboodling. All I've got to say about that is "gonna find out who's naughty and nice."

A few weeks back I asked for opinions on indulging oneself. I did it! I'm not sure I'll want to watch any more vimeo on light dispersion in diamonds by cut, but that, GIA and GCAL certificates made the process easier. Kind of like studying for weeks then going in and doing your best on the exam. I'll let you know how I did when I get the studs on Friday.

Have a good day tomorrow, all. Let's do lunch @ B'inc.

Posted by: -dbG- | December 2, 2009 10:57 PM | Report abuse

What a great day here with a bit of everything from on-kit comments, some of which were excellent, a minor kerfuffle, hunting, fishing and silk. Altho' now that I think about it, that's a fairly typical day here! I can't believe there have only been 194 comments, seems like much more.

Posted by: badsneakers | December 2, 2009 10:59 PM | Report abuse

Hi dbG -- we speak of spangled sparklie things. Very good.

Yoki speaks of this:

UPON JULIA'S CLOTHES.
by Robert Herrick


WHENAS in silks my Julia goes,
Then, then, methinks, how sweetly flows
That liquefaction of her clothes.

Next, when I cast mine eyes and see
That brave vibration each way free ;
O how that glittering taketh me !

Herrick, Robert. Works of Robert Herrick. vol II.
Alfred Pollard, ed.
London, Lawrence & Bullen, 1891.

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

CP, how is a watered silk/moire different from Duponi silk? So love your descriptions.

Posted by: dmd3 | December 2, 2009 11:07 PM | Report abuse

The guy to the right of the fellow who's reading *Kill Bin Laden* feels that you should have done a better job getting that dark stuff off those big mouth bass fillets
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/US-President-Barack-Obama-war-in-Afghanistan/photo//091201/ids_photos_ts/r3812647092.jpg/;_ylt=AhI7ufHGgttRsTk6R2MnvAnDr7sF

Posted by: douglaslbarber | December 2, 2009 11:07 PM | Report abuse

ftb and frosti, me three on the dancing, on all counts. I wonder if Noelle and Kathryn split each others' votes this week. Both contemporary dancers, vaguely similar-looking -- I could see them sharing fans.

Posted by: -bia- | December 2, 2009 11:07 PM | Report abuse

DMD tis the gorgeous stuff that has nubbies woven in for a rough and yet luscious surface: shantung or pongee.

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Jon Stewart just did a great bit on the Obama speech.

dbG, glad to hear you treated yourself, I'm sure the studs will be beautiful! Congratulations.

Posted by: badsneakers | December 2, 2009 11:14 PM | Report abuse

So, I read the Potato Peel Pie book - very interesting, as I did not realize the Channel Islands had been occupied by the Germans in WWII. And I suppose I should read Charles Lamb. I have read a Flannery O'Connor story - very good. Must read more.

CP, I caught the sky just at sunset today - light gray/lavender with a streak of pink - lovely.

Posted by: seasea1 | December 2, 2009 11:20 PM | Report abuse

Now your ears will sparkle as much as your smile dbG, enjoy you so deserve it.

Posted by: dmd3 | December 2, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Dmd click into image to see large one with the texture of dupioni silk

http://www.threadart.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=791&catid=57

And, you will love the way to say it: du pe on y
like the flower.

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

SeaSea

Imagine your grey-lilac sky in pongee silk, a kind of dupioni

http://www.aurorasilk.com/fabrics/silks_matte_and_peace/tussah_wild/pongee.html

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 2, 2009 11:26 PM | Report abuse

Yes, that is the poem.

Posted by: Yoki | December 2, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

The shrimp dip is abolutely not imaginary. I found the empty bowls in the bunker. Who put the antlers and Rudolph nose on the toilet seat? My glutes are protesting.

Posted by: -jack- | December 2, 2009 11:43 PM | Report abuse

-jack-, if there's any advice I can give you about hanging out with us in the Bunker, it's this:

*Always* look before you sit.

bc

Posted by: -bc- | December 2, 2009 11:51 PM | Report abuse

good advice, bc. btw, the tp tread is backward, and unwinds from the bottom, whether it's turned right or left. whassup with that?

Posted by: -jack- | December 2, 2009 11:56 PM | Report abuse

and someone set the dvr to record Hannah Montana *all night*, and big time wrestling is on. I need to speak to the shop steward.

Posted by: -jack- | December 2, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

jack!

Posted by: Yoki | December 3, 2009 12:02 AM | Report abuse

Well of course it is up to us to provide donuts of stability. I mean who else could you ask.

Venison is still the household staple around here. Unless of course we dine on wapiti, or moose. And with respect to venison, there is nothing, quite simply nothing that makes a better, tastier gravy than venison. If you have tasted it, and disagree, it was not done properly. As to venison being dry, no it isn't dry, it is exceptionally lean. (If a meat is well done and very moist, it is a fatty meat. Yes even turkey.) Slice it very very thin, and always serve it well cooked and in a bit of the glaze from the pan in which you seared the meat before roasting.

If you want to bring down the house, serve venison, indeed any wild game as a schnitzel, a cutlet. Perfect for all game including duck and geese.

I have been cooking game for over thirty years (Ok, it is one week over thirty), but and if there is anything I do well in the kitchen it is cooking wild game (The other thing I do well in the kitchen is burning things, but you already know that)

Posted by: --dr-- | December 3, 2009 12:20 AM | Report abuse

dr, so Canadian. Me too.

Posted by: Yoki | December 3, 2009 12:36 AM | Report abuse

dr, so Canadian. Me too.

Posted by: Yoki | December 3, 2009 12:36 AM | Report abuse

So, you all had venison to eat. Why, when I was a lad, we had to eat mastodon. Breakfast lunch and dinner, nothing but...

Oh, wait. I think that's Mudge's schtick.

Posted by: rashomon | December 3, 2009 12:52 AM | Report abuse

rashomon!

Posted by: Yoki | December 3, 2009 12:54 AM | Report abuse

rashomon!

Posted by: Yoki | December 3, 2009 12:54 AM | Report abuse

Yoki, this is only a guess, but you might want to try replacing your mouse. I think that if the button isn't making a consistent contact it can send a command twice and cause the double posts. It also might be why wapo thinks you're sending too many posts. Of course, it might be your web connection too, but it's cheap to replace a mouse.

Posted by: rashomon | December 3, 2009 1:09 AM | Report abuse

How kind of you dear rashomon

Posted by: Yoki | December 3, 2009 2:19 AM | Report abuse

I bought some tapioca roots the other day. I felt cheated. Tapioca roots have very short shelf life because the exposed part of the roots (either bruised or broken) become black in about 24 hrs. It’s very difficult to harvest them intact as one piece. Wastage is very high for farmers who couldn’t sell off their tapioca in a day or two.

Lately, some smart aleck found out that watering their tapioca plant with sodium hydrosulfite (I think that’s what it is) is the remedy to its roots turning black. The root before boiling has a yellow tint. After boiling, it turns bright yellow. Pretty scary when you are use to seeing it as white.

Posted by: rainforest1 | December 3, 2009 3:59 AM | Report abuse

Stonehenge solved! A retired construction worker built a replica of Stonehenge single-handed….no tower cranes involved…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRRDzFROMx0&feature=player_embedded

Posted by: rainforest1 | December 3, 2009 4:12 AM | Report abuse

Neat Rainforest. I've heard similar techniques were used to upright the Easter island statues.

Posted by: bh72 | December 3, 2009 5:27 AM | Report abuse

I'm up early to bake a loaf of NYT no kneed bread (sour dough version). Got to start the mix earlier so I can bake at a reasonable hour.

Posted by: bh72 | December 3, 2009 5:29 AM | Report abuse

*warming up the planes for dawn patrol*

bacon and eggs with toast and proper coffee await in the ready room...up and at 'em!

Posted by: -jack- | December 3, 2009 7:11 AM | Report abuse

Good lord, bh72, it must be the middle of the night where you are!

When I went to get the paper this morning, the moon was shining brightly. A real contrast to yesterday's rain.

Good morning, everybody! Hey, Cassandra.

I hope everyone enjoys a nice day. My goal is to finish the Christmas shopping, which shouldn't take long. Then I have to help decorate the Christmas trees in the sanctuary at church. I will be the youngest person in the room, so it will be a learning experience for me.

Posted by: slyness | December 3, 2009 7:14 AM | Report abuse

Welcome douglaslbarber!! *Grover waves and programming a new number in the fax* :-)

So nice to see so many of the Salahi's fantasies being publicly exploded. Sorry, every once in awhile the schadenfreude will have its day.

Comcast to own NBC... Hmmm, cable company buying a broadcast network. This will end well, I'm sure.

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 3, 2009 7:42 AM | Report abuse

Dark, windy and pouring rain here. Perfect morning to sleep in - so why did I wake up at 6:45? Making a fleece top for #1 for Christmas. Once I get that done I will clean the house in preparation for decorating. I'm close to finished shopping.

Posted by: badsneakers | December 3, 2009 7:46 AM | Report abuse

Loved that colour of the Dupioni silk CP, wonder if I could wear burgundy?

Morning all wet, mild morning here, rain has stopped but we received a lot of rain overnight, looks like it might clear up soon. Probably last mild day for a while so need to enjoy it.

Posted by: dmd3 | December 3, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Dmd, many can because the red has blue in it....so, can work with lots of skin tones. I think YES!

Posted by: CollegeQuaParkian1 | December 3, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

6:45 is sleeping in! Mrdr had to get up at 3:30 a.m. I don't think I would have woken at all but he turned on the light so he could see what he was doing. He is off now, helping the government cull the ever increasing herd at the base.

No matter how you feel about hunting and the rightness or wrongness of it, a reasonable balance must be maintained. Too many deer in a protected area means an unhealthy herd. Used to be natural predators kept things in balance but the cougars tend to stay far north of here, and the wolf population is decimated. There are lots of coyotes, but they go after smaller game in general. Hunters might not seem natural, but we are and always have been part of the balance of nature. The hunting is needed. The other way to restore proper balance to keep the herd healthy is to lower the number of humans around and I don't see that happening soon.

It is finally winter here even though as things go it is not really cold. The air does have that good old arctic dry feel though.

Posted by: --dr-- | December 3, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Today I should be receiving our Christmas present, joint gift to my husband and I, the counter for our new kitchen island is supposed to be installed this afternoon.

While the house is decorated for Christmas I have yet to begin to shop, or even think about it, I like the decorations way more than the gifts part - but seeing the happiness of the kids opening the gifts is always fun, and the hugs are fantastic.

Posted by: dmd3 | December 3, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

'Morning, Boodle.

Scotty, now that Comcast owns NBC, I'm sure we can all expect to see the new NBC with all the fine customer service ethos Comcast is famous for. Like Matt Lauer and the Today Show coming on at exactly...sometime between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. next Tuesday, maybe.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | December 3, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

My thoughts eggggg-zack-aly, 'Mudge.

Posted by: Scottynuke | December 3, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

If the Today Show never showed up at all, I'd be thrilled.

Posted by: badsneakers | December 3, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

bia-you must be right. I'm not sure I would have matched correct face to name with Noelle and Kathryn. I'm just glad to see Nathan gone. I think Ryan is up next.

dr-I am all for deer hunting. The ones that end up tied on top of a hunter's car are not around to jump into my windshield-and there will be blood Chez Frostbitten if my peonies are trampled. I don't care if raccoon coats are out of fashion. With the exception of deer summer sausage I've just never cared for venison or duck, two of our local staples.

I feel my fabric addiction returning, even though I have no time for sewing. There are two rolls of watered silk wallpaper out in the garage, a gold chosen to reflect light from the chandelier in a grand entry of our long ago antique house in Kentucky. These left overs are not enough to cover anything substantial, but I can't let go-so beautiful.

Have a good day, and weekend, dear boodle. The long slog to Saturday's robotics tournament starts as soon as I finish another cup of coffee.

Posted by: frostbitten1 | December 3, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

FYI, for those of you who are fans of "Monk," tomorrow night is the series finale show, when Monk finally catches the person who killed his wife Trudy. It's on the USA cable network at 9 in these parts.

Posted by: curmudgeon6 | December 3, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

'morning all. Comcast may learn a few tricks from NBC as well. For example, they can move the channels around from week to week.

Posted by: shrieking_denizen | December 3, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, you all.


Reflect, Rejoice, Renew.

Words to live by this holiday season, also, in truth, Michelle announced these words to be the White House decorating theme this Christmas year.

I do believe in the bunker, I do I do I do. So nice for Jack to warm up the plane, I have missed that tradition of the boodledawn.

Slub, slubby. Had forgotten that silky word. Many thanks CP (there's a q in there somewhere.

A sunny day, so fine, so rare.

Anyone can have my deer and my racoons; what is beauty in nature becomes pests when gobbling up the backyard.

Posted by: VintageLady | December 3, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

New kit!

Posted by: Raysmom | December 3, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the heads up on Monk. I don't watch it as often as I used to but am very interested to find out who killed Trudy. Did see the episode where Sharona returned. Always liked her and had missed her but realized that either she or I had moved on. Also, she has packed on more than a few pounds and her wardrobe didn't do anything to disguise that or make the best of it. That's my catty comment for the day.

Posted by: badsneakers | December 3, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Mudge... the Part 1 of that Monk episode will air at 8:00 p.m. We've already set the Tivo for both with "Keep until I delete."

Posted by: -TBG- | December 3, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

-jack- c'mon now - ya got 10 rolls of tp hanging on those antlers, at least one of them ought to be unrolling correctly.

If not, please feel free to correct two or three, including the GW Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove commemorative rolls, though I think Boodlers tend to use those first anyway. I think there are some Glenn Becks on the way, but I don't remember who told me that...

bc

Posted by: -bc- | December 3, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

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