Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: kcarrera and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Sports and Redskins  |  RSS

Agent: No talks with Caps about Theodore

It appears the Caps are prepared to make a change in net next season.

The agent for goaltender Jose Theodore, who just completed his second season in Washington, said there have been no discussions regarding an extension for the 33-year-old unrestricted free agent to be.

"They haven't communicated with me at all," Don Meehan said this morning from his Toronto-area office.

Meehan didn't want to speculate about the Caps' plans. But we know this: If there hasn't been a single discussion of an extension by now, most likely there's not going to be one.

"Jose can't control anything as far as his association with Washington," Meehan added. "It's a matter of going to free agency on July 1 if Washington chooses not to establish a relationship with him. He's a veteran, he's been around a long time, he's positive."

If Theodore does not return and the Caps don't make any other moves in net this summer, that probably means they're going to go with their two 22-year-olds, Semyon Varlamov and Michael Neuvirth, next season. Each carries a cap hit of $821,667 in 2010-11, while Theodore earned $4.5 million last season.

As everyone here is well aware, Theodore went through a lot off the ice last winter after the death of his infant son. He endured some struggles in November and December as a result, but he rallied down the stretch and finished with a 30-7-7 record, a .911 save percentage and a 2.81 goals against average -- numbers that guarantee he'll have a job somewhere next season.

In the playoffs, though, Theodore was replaced by Varlamov for the second straight spring.

Later this month, Theodore will be in Las Vegas for the NHL Awards, where he's up for the Bill Masterton and King Clancy trophies.

By Tarik El-Bashir  |  June 8, 2010; 11:11 AM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Caps announce key dates
Next: Sale of Wizards to Ted Leonsis approved

Comments

Is this a surprise to anyone? Short of a playoff run to the Stanley Cup with Theo in goal, it was inevitable the Caps would go with the two young guys next year. Theo has been a class act and I hope he lands a starting job somewhere next season.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 8, 2010 11:42 AM | Report abuse

If I was Theo, I probably wouldn't want to re-sign anyway. Thanks for the 2 years, best of luck to you and whoever you sign with.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 8, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

not surprised by this at all.

Continuing from other threads about C and D spots...

I posted this on HFBoards.com! Thoughts?
---------
Considering the Hawks poor salary caps position, what would it reasonably take to get David Bolland onto the Caps?

TO HAWKS:
C-David Steckel-1.100 cap hit, 3 yrs
D-John Erkskine-1.250 cap hit, 1 yr
W/C-Bourque-RFA (probably resigned at 700k)
3rd round pick (or a high second if we can procure one)

TO CAPS:
C-David Bolland-3.375 cap hit, 4 yrs
D-Brent Sopel-2.333 cap hit, 1 yr

Caps take 5.705 salary
Hawks take approx 3.000 salary

Savings for Hawks 2.705 a year

Thoughts? Yes I know it's isn't value to value but it is swapping out a C and D on each side, gaining a young player and a pick... for the hawks!
---------

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 8, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

I'll miss Jose.

He was gonna start against Philly, were we to win Game 7.

I'm sure he'll find a job next year.

Posted by: Jordan_Kitts | June 8, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Obviously, this is no surprise. I hope he gets a job somewhere he likes. He has been a class act. I wish him all the best.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | June 8, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

good move, save some money, go younger.

"that's what he said"

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

I can't see Chicago wanting Erskine or Steckel. They are going to want to fill those spots with guys making $700,000 or less. They need more cap room.

My guess is that they will trade many of those players for picks and/or prospects.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Yep, pick up that vet goalie at the trade deadline if there is a need. I actually think they could do the same with the 2nd line center situation although I would love to see Koivu here next year all season.

But they could go with the young bucks in net and at center until the trade deadline and just concentrate on snagging 2 quality d-men and a tough grinder at wing during this off season and I would be more than happy.

Posted by: PhilR | June 8, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

According to NHLnumbers.com, Neuvirth is not under contract next season. They're generally pretty accurate, so I'm curious what the deal is. Does anyone know?

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | June 8, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Not surprising at all. He did exactly what the plan was. Come in for 2 yrs while Varly and Neuvirth develope then off you go.

As stated earlier I can't imagine Theo would even want to come back. After 2 oonsecutive seasons of being yanked in the playoffs (and quickly mind you) why would ya want to come back?

I'm also on board with PhilR, let Varly and Neuvy work their way through the season and if it appears we need a vet in net then get one at the trade deadline. I don't really think that'll happen though as Varly has shown that he can handle the playoffs. What he hasn't proven yet is that he can handle an 82 game season.

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | June 8, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

no surprise here. given that loudmouth Boudreau is a flake when it comes to managing goalies, I wonder why any goalie who has played in the league a few years would want to work for a whackjob who seems to publicly place little to no confidence in anyone other than players he coached in the AHL??

the Theo thing vs. Montreal was inexcusable.

Posted by: doughless | June 8, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

It will be interesting to see Varlamov and Neuvirth will handle the rigors of the regular season if the decision is to go with these guys. Given that Varly seems to injure easily and Neuvirth hasn't looked the best in the Calder Cup finals, are folks comforatble with this?? seems like a heck of an experiment given the ownerships claims about going after the Stanley Cup. I am looking for some solid moves on the blueline if these guys are the tandem for next year.

Posted by: doughless | June 8, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

doughless..... if we won any of the remaining 3 games against Montreal... this discussion and your argument would be a moot point.

Posted by: alutz08 | June 8, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

cap geek has Neuvy signed in 2010-11 as the 3rd year of his EL deal. nhlnumbers has had that same mistake for awhile since it mistakenly counted his EL as 07-10 instead of 08-11.

http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=30

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Theo is a class act. Boudreau crapped on him by not giving him a shot in the playoffs. Theo is better off elsewhere.

Posted by: poguesmahone | June 8, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Kind of reminds me how Kolzig left the Caps.

Posted by: gonhkn | June 8, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

alutz08:

the operative word in your post is "if." look at any of the other series where the #1 goalie was pulled: he started the next game. that either makes Loudmouth BB a trailblazer or a guy who plays headgames with his goalies. i vote #2.

Posted by: doughless | June 8, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Just to note....

Theo gave up 2 goals in his first couple of SOG in game 2 vs Montreal. That's why he was pulled and Varly gave performances to ensure Theo would not play again in the series.
NO offense to Theo... he was the rock down the stretch following the Olympics while Varly tried to get his game and confidence back.... but Jose could not deliver at the start of game 2.

Neuvirth is playing in the Calder Cup. Not the time to talk contracts. Finish playing then talk about the future.

Posted by: alutz08 | June 8, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Crazy talk gonhkn. Kolzig was a pillar here and had nothing left to give. He was treated like crap but Theo was only here two years, yes still treated like crap, but nowhere near what Kolzig went through. Theo knew this was a two year deal, he lived up to his reputation and new the Caps move forward.

All the trade talk about Semin, remember he is not that old and while we assume everyone will want a player of his calibur am I the only one who a) is wondering about the Ovie impact of seeing Sasha go and b) curious as to which team would want an enigma like Sasha, the same guy that went back to Russia instead of Portland and still is such a quiet man.

Finally where is all the deserved trade talk for Green? He does not show up in playoffs, takes horrendous penalties and is due to a big contract in a few years. Yes, D take longer to develop but if you throw Semin/Flash under the bus then the Green light has to be a go also.

Posted by: flee001 | June 8, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

The problem was not goal tending in the Montreal series... it was our offense not getting the job done, and Hallack was lights out over the final 3 games. Going back to Theo does not magically open holes in the opposition's goaltender.

Posted by: alutz08 | June 8, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

the operative word in your post is "if." look at any of the other series where the #1 goalie was pulled: he started the next game. that either makes Loudmouth BB a trailblazer or a guy who plays headgames with his goalies. i vote #2.

Posted by: doughless | June 8, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

they won 3 straight games after Theo was pulled, I don't know about you but I'd call that a good move.

they lost because their all world offense stopped scoring in the last 3 games of the series and their defense is not good enough to shut down anyone and win 1-0 and 2-1.

I've been as critical as anyone since they lost but as far as the goaltending, there's nothing to criticize unless you just wanna bi*ch about anything and everything.

Posted by: joek443 | June 8, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I saw a rumor on a blog last evening indicating that the Caps were trying to work out a five-player trade involving Semin and a goaltender "previously thought untouchable", which would indicate someone like Ryan Miller. Again, just a rumor on a blog, but an interesting rumor, nonetheless.

Posted by: 74umgrad1 | June 8, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

i wouldn't classify Varly's performance against the Habs much more than average. he gave up his share of soft goals.

in regards to how the Caps management handles these situations; their track record doesn't match up with much of their rhetoric about the integrity of the organization. why would you ever just ignore a guy who has gone through the things that Theo has this year?? i mean be a man and let the guy know what his status is. Current management continues to look like a bunch of disfunctional aholes. sack up, Caps. this behavior is really looking bad.

Posted by: doughless | June 8, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Kolzig was terrible at the end. Had they not played Huet the final 13 games or so in 07-08, the caps would not have made the playoffs that year.

Kolzig was a great player and, apparently, a great person, but he, like so many athletes, tried to hang on too long and therefore forced management's hand.

One time Mike Cuellar complained that Earl Weaver wouldn't give him "another chance" to prove himself (Cuellar was 1-8 at the time). Weaver responded that he had given Cuellar "more second chances than I gave my first wife."

Sometimes it is the fault of the player and not the team.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Joek443:

so, basically the whole team stunk? if you don't have an offense and you don't have a defense, you damn well better have a lights-out goalie. given the loss to the Habs i guess I am left to infer that Varly wasn't lights-out.

Boudreau has different standards for different people, given his reason for pulling Theo and then not pulling Varly for the same reason.

but, this is all water under the bridge.

Posted by: doughless | June 8, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

tominsocal:

i hear you, but i wouldn't argue that is the case with Theo.

Posted by: doughless | June 8, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

How was Theo "treated like crap"?

He was here for 2 years, was paid $9 million, was given every chance to start and was the starter to begin both postseasons. He was benched only because of his performance. During his troubled times, it seems as though the entire Caps organization was there to support him.

Now that Theo's contract is finished the Caps decided they want to go in a different direction. This happens all the time in sports because it is beneficial to the Caps to go with their yong goalies. If Theo was coming off a Hart Trophy season I don't think anyone would be blaming him for seeking the highest contract he could get.

I like Theo a lot. He always seemed to try hard and seemed to be a great teammate. It would be nice if he could stay, but the salary cap world in hockey does not allow that. I wish him all the best in his future endeavors (exlcuding if he faces the Caps in the playoffs).

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

There is no way you can bring back Theodore in 2010-2011. The fact he was replaced TWICE in the playoffs after being the #1 goalie in consecutive seasons shows he is just not anchor you can depend upon.

For $4.5M one expects more from your #1 goalie.

It's embarrassing when clubs pick up goalies off waivers as Philly did and then make it to the Finals while the Caps continued to pay Theo good money and draft blue chip prospects to play the position.

Posted by: leopard09 | June 8, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

@ doughless

have you even been watching the Flyers? see how many shutouts both Leighton and Boucher have had? you think either of those goalies are better than Varly??

EVERY goalie will give up soft goals, Varly was good enough in the series. I don't care who you have playing between the pipes, one goal/game in the last 3 games of the series will NOT get it done unless you have defense that CAN shut teams down.

Posted by: joek443 | June 8, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

"For $4.5M one expects more from your #1 goalie."

Undefeated in regulation from january to the playoffs....maybe

Posted by: doughless | June 8, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

also if you think Theo would have done better, the man has like 3 or 4 shutouts in two full years... Varly has had that many in half the starts, including 2 in the playoffs last year.

Posted by: joek443 | June 8, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

joek443:

in a roundabout way, i was agreeing with you.

Posted by: doughless | June 8, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

@joek443

One of the few times I agree with you.

Varly was fine in the playoffs. He wasn't spectactular but he was good. The goals he gave up in game 7 were not his fault. He faced such a little amount of shots that he didn't put up great numbers but he saved most shots he should have and also saved a lot of tough shots.

I think it was in game 3 when Montreal came out flying and were unloading on the Caps but Varly held his ground. In game 2 Varly gave the Caps a chance to come back with many good saves when the Caps were pressing forward and giving up multiple odd man breaks.

Varly wasn't great in the playoffs, but he was good enough. If the Caps PP was just average they win the series. The blame, in general, goes to the offense and in particular to the Caps special teams (both PP and PK)

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

too many people view Caps through BB-colored glasses.

Posted by: doughless | June 8, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

i'd like to make a clarification in defense of Theo that i feel people are overlooking. his replacement in this year's playoffs was in a situation where the team needed a jolt. one of the three (or four) goals he allowed in that first period was soft, the others being on shots we would have been excited to see him save. i think BB made a poor choice in starting Varly the next game. he played well but in doing so he demonstrated a lack of confidence in Theo. had Varly not played well or suffered and injury BB would not have been able to turn to Theo and the caps would have been SOL

again, Theo was NOT replaced twice in the playoffs due to poor play

Posted by: mcintire_will | June 8, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Players move on. Other teams need goalies more. Theo played very well and was very honourable, but Varly and Neuvirth are our goalies of the future.

Hey Theo, wanna flip off the Habs and go play for Toronto?

Posted by: j762 | June 8, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

@ sgm3

I would say the second goal in game 7 when we were down 1 is a save Varly HAS to make. and yes, i have no idea what the hell mike green is doing on that play either

Posted by: _stevo | June 8, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Theo was benched against the Rangers for letting up a few bad goals. Especially the goal after Schultz's big mistake.

Theo was good in game 1 against the Habs but the two goals he gave up to the Habs in game 2 were bad goals. He was pulled because of that performance. Varly then won game 2 (with the help of the team). Varly did make some important stops to keep the Caps in the game to allow for the comeback. Starting Varly in game 3 was the right move.

Also remember that Varly was the #1 star in games 3 and 4.

Then Varly played a very good game 5. His game 6 was about average. He let in a bad goal in that one. He didn't face many shots because the Caps dominated so completely but couldn't score(probably the Caps best game excluding the scoreboard). Varly was solid in game 7 and came up again with a few big saves in the 2nd and 3rd period to keep it a one goal game until about 4 minutes remaining. Neither of the two goals were bad goals by any means.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Oh god no, not this argument again!

Posted by: PhilR | June 8, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

@_stevo

First, remember it was actually Carlson's lazy backchecking that led to such a glorious scoring chance. (Green could have also made a much better play but he was anticipating Carlson to continue skating.)

Second, you are right, it was a save you want your goalie to make and was saveavble. On the otherhand, the Habs player had a wide open lane to the goal and did put it in the upper shelf. It was a nice shot. I don't think Varly was out of position or anything. So while it was saveable, it wasn't a bad goal by any means.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

@sgm3

yeah fair enough

Posted by: _stevo | June 8, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Caps fans are so fickle. In December you guys wanted Theo shipped off to Grand Rapids with Nylander, now you want him extended?

Posted by: ablake70 | June 8, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

sgm3

Finally, someone who actually saw that Carly was slow to get back on what ended up being a huge play in game 7. Caps fans love to hate offensive d-guys like Green. Remember Gonchar, Kevin Hatcher & Larry Murphy. Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 stanley cups those former Caps won.

Posted by: jimc93 | June 8, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Only time will tell with the two young goalies. However, some better Defense would be great along with a good 2nd line center.

Posted by: JMinVA | June 8, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

All the trade talk about Semin, remember he is not that old and while we assume everyone will want a player of his calibur am I the only one who a) is wondering about the Ovie impact of seeing Sasha go and b) curious as to which team would want an enigma like Sasha
Finally where is all the deserved trade talk for Green? He does not show up in playoffs, takes horrendous penalties and is due to a big contract in a few years. Yes, D take longer to develop but if you throw Semin/Flash under the bus then the Green light has to be a go also.
--------------------------------------

Pair Green with the right partner, improve the other defensive roster spots, and adjust the team philosophy from what it currently is and Mike Green becomes an integral piece to the puzzle. The Flames in the late 80s had 2 young offensive dmen (Gary Suter and Al MacInnis). They had the benefit of playing with some solid defensive veteran partners and playing in a defense-first team concept. This allowed them to develop their defensive games to a much greater extent than the environment Mike Green has been placed in. Granted, this environment has also led to Green's explosion offensively but it has come at a price to his overall development (while padding his wallet).

The reason I wouldn't use that same argument in favor of keeping Semin is, I have not seen ANY improvement in his work ethic over the years while I have seen Green make strides this year to pay more attention to his own end of the ice. I think Green in general is a better horse to bet on. Semin is less of a team player and more of a headcase. Just less reliable overall and less of a guarantee that he'll find his overall game. Its also very difficult to find the perfect center for him. He needs that Fedorov type (Russian veteran) of player he can look upto and that doesn't jive with the kind of player we really need as our 2nd line center. We need a big strong 2way player at center and I don't think Semin will gel with that type of player.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

I have not seen Semin lacking in work ethic or lacking in being a good team player.

If people think the Caps should trade him because of his style of play, overload of wingers on the Caps, salary cap ramifications, possbile players Caps would get in return, etc. Those are all fine reasons.

However, from the seven playoff games I saw I only saw Semin giving a wonderful effort throughout the entire series.

He didn't end up scoring, but I do not think that was due to lack of effort or team play. He was often the first forward back on the back check. I remember him breaking up a few scoring chances by getting back faster than some of the Caps D.

He didn't perform as he needed to, but it was not due to lack of effort or team play.

Semin's wonderful PK statistics also indicate he is committed to give effort for defensive purposes (PK is often about effort), even during the regular season.

I have also not seen anything saying that Semin is not a good teammate.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Theo is just a class act all the way and was dependable when Caps needed to go to him. Wish him all the best if he isn't brought back. Varly and Neuvirth have demonstrated that they are injury prone-hopefully under Smitty's care full time in DC, the training regimen will focus on durability.

Posted by: rockdaredlangely | June 8, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

A lot of good comments; however, BB needs to learn some defense and have his team play some tough D when it counts. Scoring goals is great for regular season but Defense wins Cups. Take a look at previous SC winners, they had tougher D than the Caps.

Posted by: JMinVA | June 8, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Remember Gonchar, Kevin Hatcher & Larry Murphy. Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 stanley cups those former Caps won.

Posted by: jimc93 | June 8, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

kevin hatcher was a total liability on the ice defensively after he changed his game around from a 2 way player to a one-dimensional offensive guy. Don't even bring his name into the mix please. He didn't do SQUAT after he left the Caps. Tinordi was a much better player for us, better leader, better defenseman.

Gonchar improved his game as a Penguin, plain and simple. He was also a one-dimensional guy who made a lot of costly mistakes that cost us critical games. When he went to Pittsburgh, he got motivated to play better defensively. So maybe you can fault the Caps org for not finding a way to motivate him. But he ended up being a more well-rounded player for them than he ever was for the Caps. He started off for us being a tough defensive player, then once he found his offensive game he stopped playing D. Now he's more balanced.

Murphy? I'm not a fan. There are some players who can be a huge asset to any team they go to (see Scott Stevens). Then there are other players who have to be placed into a specific role with the right complement of players to surround them to be successful. Murphy went to some bad teams and he looked very ordinary. Stevens went to 2 bad teams after the Caps and he raised everyone's game around him. The one year he goes to the Blues, they have a big turnaround. The next yr when he left, they plummeted back down. The Devils were a lost franchise before he showed up there and he raises them to a whole new level.
Compare that with Murph -- his successes were with 2 teams that already had an established set of stars and a very strong nucleus - Pittsburgh and Detroit. His failures were with two teams that weren't very good - Minnesota and Toronto. He couldn't raise two mediocre teams the way Stevens did\ because he just didn't have many intangible qualities. Murphy was a great situational hired hand type of player but it had to be a very specific set of circumstances that allowed him to be successful.

And when Murphy left the Caps, we went further than we ever had before. When Stevens left the Caps, different story. It took us a long time to climb out of that hole and that was only briefly for one year in '97. Stevens was really part of the core identity for the Caps. Langway, Stevens, Hunter. Later Kolzig, Kono etc. Murphy was never part of that core identity.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

cstanton1: Agree 100% with Semin piece but again who do you see wanting him is slubs like us can see these faults? As for Green I still believe he will develop really well, just needs a partner as you say but if Semin/Flash getting so much blame so should Green as here O on PP was non-existent.

Let's not forget BB took the same roster (minus 1 hot goalie) that Hanlon was fired for to the playoffs. He did his job, just as Jose bridged the gap to the young kids. Now maybe, MAYBE, it's time for the next coach to take this roster to the next, playoff, level. BB is on the clock, lets see what happens in December.

Posted by: flee001 | June 8, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

However, from the seven playoff games I saw I only saw Semin giving a wonderful effort throughout the entire series.
--------------------------------

you sir are delusional. You think Semin gave a "wonderful effort throughout the entire series" ? A bigger lie I have not read on this board in quite a while. His effort was clearly lacking in the first few games. Then when he finally kicked it into gear he got a bit snakebitten. I don't judge him on his lack of point production. You can't control how many goals you score, but you can control effort. And his effort was among the worst along with Flash for the first half of the series.

There was a dramatic difference in how Semin played towards the end of the series vs the beginning.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

cstanton1: Agree 100% with Semin piece but again who do you see wanting him is slubs like us can see these faults? As for Green I still believe he will develop really well, just needs a partner as you say but if Semin/Flash getting so much blame so should Green as here O on PP was non-existent.
---------------------------

I think Semin's actual trade value is less than what most of us would like to believe it is. You take another player who puts up the same # of points and you'd probably get a lot more back in return. With Semin's inconsistent work ethic, his stretches of sluggishness, his seemingly Russian-centric nature...he's a big question mark on how he'll fit in with another team, another coach, another city etc. He may not fit in at all, and he may decide to go back to the motherland at some point and leave a team in the lurch. He's a risky guy to trade for. Only a team with deep pockets and desperate for scoring would give up a lot to get him because his potential upside is attractive enough for a desperate team. But he needs certain types of linemates, and he needs his head straight. He also seems very fragile to any kind of criticism. Which is why the Caps treat him with kid gloves.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Let's not forget BB took the same roster (minus 1 hot goalie) that Hanlon was fired for to the playoffs. He did his job, just as Jose bridged the gap to the young kids. Now maybe, MAYBE, it's time for the next coach to take this roster to the next, playoff, level. BB is on the clock, lets see what happens in December.

Posted by: flee001


Be careful flee, you can not question the almighty BB on this forum as the man is Jesus Christ, Allah, and Buddha all wrapped up in one person to many here!

I agree with you though, this should absolutely be his last shot to get it right...if they don't at least make the conference finals and come close to the championship series next year he needs to go.

Posted by: PhilR | June 8, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Here you go SGM, maybe you can take off those blinders now? Here is his own coach who goes far beyond the call of duty to usually shield his fragile star from criticism talking about Semin's effort in game 5 vs the previous games.

"How many goals and assists did he have?" Boudreau said when asked to assess Semin's effort. Told it was, "Zero," an unusually testy Boudreau fired back, "Ok."

"He did put in a better effort I thought than he's put in the three or four previous games," Boudreau added.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

more Semin:

"Through five games, he has no goals and one assist, and his propensity for seemingly drifting in and out of consciousness has only fueled the story line."

pretty much nailed it on the head. His effort thru the first 4 games was pretty much putrid overall. Then he kicks it up a notch. Too little too late. And frankly , I expect more from a core player like Semin than giving an all-out effort for half a playoff series (and thats being generous).

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

How do you know

1) Semin's head is not straight: Do you speak with him? Are you in the locker room? Do you speak with people who are close to him? Do you have articles supporting this claim with research the writer has done to explore this?

2) Semin has an inconsistent work ethic: Again, do you speak with him? Do you speak with people who are close to him? Do you train with him? Do you have articles supporting this claim with research the writer has done to explore this?

3) Semin is Russian-centric: First, what exactly does that mean? Is it because he is more comfortable spending time in a foreign country with people who are from the same country as he is? I'm pretty sure this is commonplace with every culture that has ever immigrated to America. How is being "Russian-centric" a bad thing?

4) The Caps treat Semin with kid gloves: How so? Please bring up incidents, supported by more than your conclusory statements.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

cstanton1: Agree 100% with Semin piece but again who do you see wanting him is slubs like us can see these faults?

I'd say about 29 other teams in the league. cstanton1 views Semin through his cstanton1 colored glasses: little hitting + Euro = worthless. I think GMs are not silly enough to assess a player solely on superficial attributes like media interviews and perceived likability. Of course, there is Suter who let the fans run Phaneuf out of town and look at where that got the Flames.

Saying the Semin should be traded because his style doesn't fit is one thing, but to claim he has no value is ridiculous. He is one of the best two-way forwards on this team. The stats prove that.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 8, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Now maybe, MAYBE, it's time for the next coach to take this roster to the next, playoff, level. BB is on the clock, lets see what happens in December.
--------------------------

i've always thought this way. That you can bring in coaches to take a team to a certain level, then cut ties with the coach, thank them for their contributions and look for the next guy to take it a bit further. Everyone bags on Hanlon but Glen accomplished a lot while he was here. He took a ragtag roster and taught them how to play hard. He set a foundation of sorts, the Caps beat a lot of more talented teams they had no business beating under Hanlon.

Bruce has added a great offensive element to this team and given certain players the confidence in their games that they need. He's also introduced some of his AHL players to the NHL game (Steckel, Flash, Sloan etc).

Now its time to bring in a new face who can combine some of Hanlon's assets with Bruce's elements. Play an uptempo aggressive style that still utilizes the skill on this team, but combine that with some better attention to team defense and a grittier attitude.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

@ cstanton1

BB has made no secret that he dislikes Semin. Whenever he has an opportunity to bash Semin in the press, he takes it. Semin, the goalies, and the non-Hershey defenseman are the only ones BB ever berates publicly. Not one word about how Ovi-Backs-Knuble turned over the puck and failed to backcheck in game 5, leading to the two goals against.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 8, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

cstanton1 views Semin through his cstanton1 colored glasses: little hitting + Euro = worthless.
------------------

first of all, his lack of effort I'm talking about and I'm sure what his own coach alluded to, had little to do with hitting and more to do with hustle.

secondly, EVERYONE hits in the playoffs. You can't afford to have any passengers riding for free. Those are the teams who get eliminated sooner rather than later. So even finesse players raise that part of their games in the playoffs. To try and excuse that is silly. One of the big reasons the Caps fall flat in the playoffs is they're collectively unable to raise their games to another level that is required. And if Semin decides to pass up numerous opportunities to finish an available check, then of course he should be criticized for it. What makes him so special that he's excused from having to do that? Hitting is good, it creates havoc and scoring chances. No one's asking him to turn into Cam Janssen. Just finish a check thats in front of you. Do you see the Hawks/Flyers finesse guys passing up every chance to finish a check?

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Anyone have anything more on the goalie thought to be untradeable? I checked some numbers and the only two guys who pop up are Hendrick (spelling?) and Miller. Buf I don't think is stupid enough to give up Miller at a decent number (6m) while the Rangers might be just stupid enough. They would, could take on a Semin/Flash and young goalie combo but don't know, all I've got is speculation. Anyone else?

Posted by: flee001 | June 8, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

SGM-- tell me again how Semin's effort was "wonderful throughout the series"

I have not heard anyone adopt this position before. Show of hands please for anyone who thought Semin's effort was great in each and every game. Even Ovechkin said that Semin's game 5 effort was noticeably better. Does Ovy have it out for Semin the same way BB allegedly does too? lol

tell me lies tell me sweet little lies"

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

@ cstanton1

BB has made no secret that he dislikes Semin. Whenever he has an opportunity to bash Semin in the press, he takes it.
-----------------

completely the opposite. Bruce rarely bashes Semin unless he has no recourse left. i.e. Semin's selfish untimely penalties, or his periods of long stretches where his head is up his butt.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

@ cstanton1

Who is this everyone of which you speak? Certainly not Patrick Kane who has 4 hits in 21 playoff games. Mike Cammaleri had 8, Plekanec 12, and even Gill only had 12 in 19 playoff games. How did their teams fare?

Posted by: ablake70 | June 8, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

"Not one word about how Ovi-Backs-Knuble turned over the puck and failed to backcheck in game 5, leading to the two goals against."

I think you look at the big picture. That line generally works hard and is effective. So you don't pile on them for a mistake here and there. But at the same time I'd have no problem if they got called out for that either. Its when you have players who have recurring mental lapses that makes you go a little crazy.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

@jimc93: I saw that play by Carlson too.

Kind of screamed at my TV to %^&*ing backcheck and when my dad started yelling at Varlamov I turned and told him to watch Carlson on the replay.

It was a simple play... cover your man and that shot never gets off... and Carlson did not.

In a series of "the little things" making the biggest difference... his non-backcheck allowed the GWG... had he just skated and messed with Moore he likely wouldn't have had such a good release...

AND, Brooks Laich's goal would have been a game tying goal... who knows... we could have won in OT...

but anyways... it's the little things that make champions and the caps had better learn that you do all the little things in the PO, no matter how talented they are...

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 8, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

@ cstanton1 |

I guess you never heard BB brag that all his guys scored while Semin did nothing the first few games when Ovi was out. He said something to the effect that Semin had no friends. Or how he dismissed Semin's good game after his injury by saying it was nothing because he had enough rest. Gee, that's exactly what I want my coach to say in the press about one of my players.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 8, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

cstanton: One thing we agree on is that Kevin Hatcher was a terrible defensive defenseman. That and Tinordi was much better for the club. That trade was a steal. The three people the Caps need going into next year are "Mike Ridley," "Mark Tinordi" and "Kelly Miller."

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

@ cstanton1 |

I guess you never heard BB brag that all his guys scored while Semin did nothing the first few games when Ovi was out. He said something to the effect that Semin had no friends. Or how he dismissed Semin's good game after his injury by saying it was nothing because he had enough rest. Gee, that's exactly what I want my coach to say in the press about one of my players.
------------------

I'm curious to read this quote (or series of quotes) because I'm sure its published somewhere. Can you post it? I'd like to see if I agree with your interpretation. Thanks!

My impression of how Bruce operates is he's usually protective of his skill players and generally quicker to jump on a mistake made by a less name player (i.e. when he castigated Jurcina last season for failing to knock down a player in the crease).

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

I will say that me saying "wonderful throughout the series" was a little overboard. After reading your comments I must have caught a little cstanton disease.

I will say, excluding Ovie, I don't remember another Cap giving more effort than Semin over the course of the series. Backstrom, maybe. I don't remember seeing Laich or Knuble giving too much.

So I will alter my statement to Semin gave as much effort, or more effort, than at least 20 Caps players.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse


"Not one word about how Ovi-Backs-Knuble turned over the puck and failed to backcheck in game 5, leading to the two goals against."

I think you look at the big picture. That line generally works hard and is effective. So you don't pile on them for a mistake here and there. But at the same time I'd have no problem if they got called out for that either. Its when you have players who have recurring mental lapses that makes you go a little crazy.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 3:26 PM

It's the playoffs. Those two goals were the only ones scored by the Habs to win the game. And that was not the first time that line was caught loafing in the series. At least one of the two goals scored on Theo in game 2 came when Ovi was throwing a bunch of big hits in the O zone and the other two watched as the Habs raced down the ice to score. Of course, Green took the heat for that. Had that been Semin and Flash though, you guys would have been howling about that play until the end of time.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 8, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

cstanton: One thing we agree on is that Kevin Hatcher was a terrible defensive defenseman. That and Tinordi was much better for the club.
------------------

no secret why either.

Hatcher was a rising star in the 80s and was probably the best combination of size, toughness and offensive ability. There wasn't another 6ft4 guy on D in the league that I can think of who skated like he did and still provided the grit he did. Closest was probably Luke Richardson with an honorable mention to his teammate Iafrate.

But when Stevens left, Hatcher's game went into the toilet. And the Caps needed to replace the intangibles that Stevens provided. That's where Tinordi came in. He was a throwback player with strong leadership skills who had captained his MN team to the Finals a few yrs earlier so he had playoff experience and he could provide leadership on the backline. So trading a 30 goal scorer away from the blueline actually made us a better team overall.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

So I will alter my statement to Semin gave as much effort, or more effort, than at least 20 Caps players.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

its not altered enough. I'd say his effort in the first 4 games was overall about as lazy an effort as I've seen from any player in a playoff series. With the exception of maybe Flash.

I think you're remembering his effort over the latter half of the series and making believe its reflective of how he played over the course of 7 games. His effort was significantly better in the last 3 games, scoring aside.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

SGM

Semin needs to be moved because he has good value, a bad contract situation, and not really needed on this team. That being said, he was terrible in the playoffs. He was a no show. He finally had a chance to do something in game 7, then, he hit the post. Let's not even defend his playoff performance, because, it's indefensable. He wasn't the only one, but he scored 40 during the regular season. He is expected to score goals, not give effort.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 8, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Semin is good but is finicky. Amazing talent but does anyone think if not for Ovie he might already be in Russia? He did avoid coming to Portland to stay in Russia before. I love watching Semin, he is amazing but guess what folks, intangibles count, personality, etc. Semin is quiet so nobody really knows what is going on but all that aside it comes down to dollars. The Caps are better cap-wise with Laich, Knuble, Flash (yes Flash), Fehr in place of Semin just based on finances.

I hate Pitt, but they have three solid centers. This is the secret folks, look at cup winning teams in recent years, do they have at least 2 solid centers ... yup. Love Semin but his cap hit after next year will be way too much for a second line winger. Caps need 2C and Semin will hinder this. His stock is low right now especially if World Champ is added onto playoffs.

Flash is cheap and developing, Semin is what he is. The salary cap forces these tough choices, i don't envy GMGM at all.

Posted by: flee001 | June 8, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

t's the playoffs. Those two goals were the only ones scored by the Habs to win the game. And that was not the first time that line was caught loafing in the series. At least one of the two goals scored on Theo in game 2 came when Ovi was throwing a bunch of big hits in the O zone and the other two watched as the Habs raced down the ice to score. Of course, Green took the heat for that. Had that been Semin and Flash though, you guys would have been howling about that play until the end of time.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 8, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

can't disagree with this. I don't play favorites if goals or scoring chances occurred due to laziness then I'm all for lynching the player verbally who is responsible. The only way you learn to improve is by tracing the cause of every goal. And a lot of times the reason a goal is scored has nothing to do with the last guy in the video frame. Sometimes you can trace it back to a play that occurred a few mins previously. Maybe a bad clear that caused the puck to stay in that eventually leads to your tired team running around and either taking a penalty that leads to a goal or a goal that is scored then and there.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Semin was a ghost against the Habs. to say otherwise is just silly.

Posted by: doughless | June 8, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

cstanton: My daughter (who just texted me how happy she was Pronger was so bad the other night) used to call Kevin Hatcher "Fish Face."

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Semin for Chara ... pipe dream, but both in last year of contracts. We need D, Bos needs scoring. Pipe dream but that's what dreaming is about.

Posted by: flee001 | June 8, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

the money that Semin and Flash are going to want ($9 to $10 between the two), will go a long way towards filling serious holes in Caps lineup. I don't see the downside in dealing these 2. we need more Caps that sack up when needed, instead of disappearing.

Posted by: doughless | June 8, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

@FrankM73 - I'm not too impressed with any of the Hawks past their top 2 D and their top forwards with #33. Def don't like Sopel, don't see him as an upgrade.

@cstanton01 - Semin was perhaps our most effective forward in 2nd half of the series. He absolutely needs someone with his level of on-ice intelligence to play with, though, or else a lot of what he does is wasted. But he's a critical piece of this team right now - we're probably 10 wins worse this year without him.

Posted by: RedLitYogi | June 8, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

@underpants2

I agree that Semin's production in the playoffs was horrible with no goals. But the question wasn't about Semin's production, it was about his effort. I still think Semin gave some of the best effort out of all the Caps during that series.

All the reasons you mention for trading Semin are legitimate. The Caps are overloaded with wingers and need more talent at D and C.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Dang, someone talk about an unmovable goalie please, Semin/Flash on the brain ... need ... to talk ... goalie rumor ...

Posted by: flee001 | June 8, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

He is expected to score goals, not give effort.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 8, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

can't control goals. I can see if a player continues to stink it up playoff season after playoff season with regards to his point totals that perhaps you dump the guy. But if Semin had put in the same effort into the first 4 games that he did in the last 3, he probably would've cracked the scoresheet a coupla times at least. I wasn't surprised to see his lackluster effort in the beginning, and I wasn't surprised to see him turn it on at the end. That's how he operates. He can make up for an entirely lackluster game with 2 brilliant shifts. Unfortunately, it doesn't work as well in the playoffs.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Ok, looked at cap numbers and Chara (1yr, 7.5) and Thomas (3yr, 5m each) could be the rumor tied to Semin. Semin and Chara are almost a wash, Boston wants to get rid of Thomas and will have a high pick coming in to pair with Semin. Chara is last year of contract, it almost makes sense in the Caps get a solid D, get rids of Semin but it's the Thomas number that hurts ... but he is thought to be unmoveable right?

Posted by: flee001 | June 8, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

"we need more Caps that sack up when needed, instead of disappearing."

rofl! and well said.

"@cstanton01 - Semin was perhaps our most effective forward in 2nd half of the series. He absolutely needs someone with his level of on-ice intelligence to play with, though, or else a lot of what he does is wasted. But he's a critical piece of this team right now - we're probably 10 wins worse this year without him."

I'll take 10 less regular season wins. Losing more games in the reg season should not be a concern. Its not about where you finish in the reg season that matters. Its about being good enough to make the playoffs while building a playoff-ready roster. That takes guts and vision. You don't intentionally finish 6th or 8th, but you don't worry about finishing first either. That's just vanity.

and yes, #28 was effective in the 2nd half of the series. Invisible in the 1st.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

"I'd say his effort in the first 4 games was overall about as lazy an effort as I've seen from any player in a playoff series. With the exception of maybe Flash."

Come on cstanton. This is exactly why your arguments carry so little weight. Because instead of rationally explaining your opinion(which often is ok) you exaggerate so much that you, and your entire argument, lose any and all credibility.

How would you describe Pronger's effort in game 5 against Chicago? If Semin's effort was considered that bad for games 1-4, then Pronger's effort in game 5 must be the worst, and most pathetically lazy, effort ever given in professional sports history. (I don't actually believe this but I'm using cstanton logic.)

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

well, this sucks. but look on the bright side, next season, theo will play on a team with a coach who actually likes him, unlike boudreau. it's pretty obvious boudreau doesn't like him and it's not fair to theo, who is an amazing goalie. anyways, he'll do great next season with whoever he'll be with.. i heard maybe habs are intereted.. that would be cool, at least i wouldn't have to drive 12 hours to watch him. anyways, all he best theo, you'll do great wherever and i will support you wherever. je t'aime

Posted by: DieHardTheoFan60 | June 8, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

@flee001

I thought that rumor was most likely pertaining to Lundqvist. He is one of the few goalies considered "untoucable" but the Rangers desperately need scoring and have a crazy enough GM who may be willing to do something of the sort.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

cstanton: My daughter (who just texted me how happy she was Pronger was so bad the other night) used to call Kevin Hatcher "Fish Face."

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

his brother was definitely the better player even though Kevin had more potential given his skating. They had another brother too (Mark), I saw him try out for the Caps at Mt Vernon. He was bigger than both Derian and Kevin but he couldn't skate. I think he was 6ft7 and I think he got paired on the ice with Nolan Baumgartner but all he could do was mug other players.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

@flee001:

outside of the trade being a pipe-dream...

Chara and Thomas
for
Semin, Flash, 1st round pick, + whomever

...that trade woul mean that the caps would have to put one of Neuvy or Varlyy through waivers after this coming season and that just ain't happening...

now, if Boston is just trading Semin... hey, I'm for it... there's the D that fits the mold that the fans seem to want (generalizing)...

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 8, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

sgm -- Semin spent much of games 1-4 standing around while everyone else was engaged in the action. He treated it like it was an exhibition game. He stayed away from any board battles. He didn't take a hit to make a play. He didn't impede anyone's progress short of sticking out his stick. He was completely detached and disengaged. He's now a playoff veteran, not a shellshocked rookie (the way Backstrom acted in the Flyer series 2 yrs ago). This team needed him to come out flying out of the gate. Not to just turn it on when things weren't going our way. I did not see anything resembling a playoff-type effort from him until later.

Semin too often acts bored and disinterested. Then he gets his stick on a puck and fires it off and does his "look up at the sky with a shrug" expression. That drives me nuts. He didn't put in the work to make the breaks. It was a case of too much too late.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Theo gone??? Next thing you know they're going to tell me Nylander is gone! Who's next, Doug Mohns?

Posted by: ouvan59 | June 8, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

No, neither varly or Neuvy need waivers next year...pretty certain, both have 1 yr on EL.

Derian Hatcher was really nasty. Once almost carved out Dino's eye.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

"I will say, excluding Ovie, I don't remember another Cap giving more effort than Semin over the course of the series. Backstrom, maybe. I don't remember seeing Laich or Knuble giving too much"

I partly agree here. I don't recall any standout Capital performances except for Backstrom. I thought Ovechkin was hit or miss, literally. He was either running everyone or he was skating away from contact. Laich was also a disappointment because he didn't bring his goalmouth efforts until later in the series. I thought Green played the most physical series of his playoff career. Poti played better than expected also. Montreal was a good matchup for Poti. I think he'd crumble against a team like Philly.

bottom line, everyone could've done a lot more than they did and we were lucky at one point to even be up in the series. I put the blame on the coach for not getting his team to play hard. And on McPhee for not doing enough in terms of getting the right players at the deadline or before.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

While I definitely agree that games 5-7 were Semin's best games I don't recall Semin giving the lack of effort you are mentioning.

He definitely got frusturated and he does give that weird look when he misses shots. But it is just a weird facial expression, it is just his way of reacting.

I thought his game 1 effort was good (It was Ovie who looked surprisingly lackidasical in game 1)

Over the first 4 games Semin had 0G 1A, was a +1 and had 20 shots on goal(6, 6, 5, 4 so consistent in all games). I have a very hard time saying he didn't give a good effort if he got 20 shots on goal over the first 4 games (he also had many more that missed).

He was consistently producing scoring opportuities (effort), but just not coming up with results.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

@tominwhicheverstateyouareinrightnow: ;-)

"...that trade would mean that the caps would have to put one of Neuvy or Varlyy through waivers after this coming season and that just ain't happening..."

I said after this coming season... ie: not this coming year but next... then their ELC's will be done and have to pass through waivers... if I'm correct!

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 8, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

I honestly do not believe the Caps lost because of a lack of effort. If you watch games 6 and 7 again the Caps dominated play and were all over the place. They just couldn't score. Sometimes you just lose.

The only time I recall the Caps giving a really poor effort that cost them was the first 10 minutes of game 5. That blame deserves to be applied to everybody. The coaches and players. They assumed the series was over and it wasn't. If any there is any criticism of effort throughout the series it should be focused at that time. If the Caps came out and scored an early first goal in game 5 I think they would have rolled over the Habs and won that series.

The beginning of game 1 was a little lackidasical but nothing appalling.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Frank: OK, yes, on July 1 2011 both Neuvy and Varly are RFA if they aren't extended before then, and neither could then be sent down w/o waivers I believe.

Some players beyond EL (Pinizotto) are sent down w/o waivers because I think they sign voluntary two-way deals. Even then, they have re-entry waivers so that is the least you would have.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Tom: that's what I thought... ELC are exempt from all types of waivers and then there's the 2-way deals and such that have other waiver rules of whatever sorts...

either way, Bourque and Gordon will not be on ELC's and I hope both make the team, or at least Gordon...

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 8, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Derian Hatcher was really nasty. Once almost carved out Dino's eye.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

yeah, Derian used every inch of his frame to punish opposing players. Some big guys feel bad about using their size to their advantage so they hold back a bit. Not him. Remember that hit he put on JR? That was in response to all the clean but vicious hits that JR used to put on Mike Modano. Once Derian rearranged JR's face, the abuse on Modano around the league just kinda dissipated. Even Tkachuk who usually sticks up for his teammates didn't want to mess with Derian after he crushed JR's face.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

I honestly do not believe the Caps lost because of a lack of effort. If you watch games 6 and 7 again the Caps dominated play and were all over the place. They just couldn't score. Sometimes you just lose.
----------------------------

they lost because their best efforts came too late. Had they played in the first half of the series the way they played at the end, they would've likely won. Montreal had no confidence in the beginning of the series. They gained confidence as the series wore on. They were a slumping directionless team heading into the playoffs. The Caps again displayed lack of any urgency or killer instinct and let the Habs hang around. By the time we turned on our best jets, they were feeling much better about themselves and had found a rhythm.

Too often fans remember the end of a series because its most recent memory. But if you go back and watch the first half of the series, we had very inconsistent efforts.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

The Caps won 3 of the first 4 games. So how did the Caps effort in those games cost them the series. If they played with more effort in those games would those wins have counted as two instead of just one? That's when they won their games(excluding game 1).

I don't see how the Habs gained confidence as the series wore on (from game 1 to the beginning of game 5). The Habs won game 1, were dominating game 2 then blew a three goal lead. The Habs then were blown out in games 3 and 4 at home. How did they gain confidence from those games. If anything, the Caps play and results kept on rising while the Habs play and results kept on falling. The Habs were losing confidence shown by their play in game 4.

It took the beginning of game 5(and Halak playing amazing) for them to regain it.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

The beginning of game 1 was a little lackidasical but nothing appalling.
------------------------------

anything short of fullbore intensity is appalling to me in that situation. Let me explain why.

You're the #1 seed. You are out to prove to everyone (fans, media, yourselves, the opponent, the league) that this is a different Washington Caps team than in previous years. You're playing at home. You're playing an opponent you should potentially crush. You're playing to win the series in 4 or 5 games so you can get rested for a deep playoff run.

When you come out in game 1 and show anything less than full-bore intensity, you send a very bad message. The Caps went up in the series 3-1 despite a very unimpressive effort. They thought they could win this series playing in 2nd gear. They allowed the Habs to come back, gain confidence, establish a rhythm etc etc. The Caps were the best thing to happen to Montreal this year. It gave them the confidence to go and beat Pitt in the next series.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Tarik tweet:

"Caps and Eric Fehr are in discussions on a multi year agreement, I'm told."

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

The Caps won 3 of the first 4 games. So how did the Caps effort in those games cost them the series. If they played with more effort in those games would those wins have counted as two instead of just one? That's when they won their games(excluding game 1).
----------------------------------

because when you win games without dominating them, you allow the other team to think they have a legit chance to come back. The Caps by underplaying, gave Montreal confidence because it was clear that we weren't playing at some significantly higher level than they were.

What you do in one game, can affect what happens in future games. Regardless of the actual outcome. Which is why you see some teams who are about to lose a game try to set a tone in the final minutes. It may look like frustration, but there's a deeper agenda there.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 5:30 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

If everything other than 100% is appalling to you then you only see things in black and white.

There are many levels of intensity and to thikn every team gives a perfect every game is wrong. Look at the Pens in games 5 and 6 vs. the Senators. Even though they won game 6 they were down 3-0 because of a horrible game they were playing. They lost game 5 for the same reason. Their first 30 minutes of game 7 against the Habs was appalling.

Chicago came out horribly flat against Nashville in game 1 and were smashed at home. Their effort didn't start coming out full until the last minute of game 5 in that series.

I see no evidence whatsoever that the Caps effort in games 1-4 somehow made them lost games 5-7 when they were giving a better effort. Any attempt to connect those is a stretch. The Habs were at their lowest confidence after game 4.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 5:35 PM | Report abuse

I don't see how the Habs gained confidence as the series wore on (from game 1 to the beginning of game 5). The Habs won game 1, were dominating game 2 then blew a three goal lead. The Habs then were blown out in games 3 and 4 at home. How did they gain confidence from those games. If anything, the Caps play and results kept on rising while the Habs play and results kept on falling. The Habs were losing confidence shown by their play in game 4.

It took the beginning of game 5(and Halak playing amazing) for them to regain it.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

I don't want to seem argumentative for the sake of it. Because on the surface, you make a good point. But before the playoffs even started, you had a fading #8 seed going into a series v the #1 seed. In my experience of watching a lot of series, I've seen similar teams give up early and mail in the series IF the favored team really turns up the heat and dominates them physically and in other ways. We're not a team that generally does that. I think had we jumped all over them from the opening shift onwards, we could've mentally defeated them early in the series.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

I would actually say that if the Caps were giving a poor effort and still soundly beating the Habs (game 2 comeback and games 3 and 4) that the Habs would have much less confidence.

This is because they would think to themselves "we can't even beat these guys when they aren't trying. What the heck is going to happen when they start playing?"

I can't disagree more that a team gains confidence by losing to an opposing team when the opposing team isn't even trying.

That is actually probably the most discoraging way to lose a game. It leaves a team with no confidence that they can win.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 5:40 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

If everything other than 100% is appalling to you then you only see things in black and white.
---------------------

its a freaking playoff game, the opening one, at home, in a year that you're supposed to dominate and make a long playoff run, against an alleged weak opponent etc etc.
Yes, to come out flat is inexcusable. As is trying to lower the bar.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Look at the Pens in games 5 and 6 vs. the Senators. Even though they won game 6 they were down 3-0 because of a horrible game they were playing. They lost game 5 for the same reason. Their first 30 minutes of game 7 against the Habs was appalling.
---------

we're not the Penguins, we haven't earned the right or the benefit of the doubt that they have. They've proven that they understand how to win and persevere. I'd be less hard on the Caps if they had the Penguins playoff track record over the past 3 seasons.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

"I've seen similar teams give up early and mail in the series IF the favored team really turns up the heat and dominates them physically and in other ways."

I agree with that. But the Caps recovered from a mediocore game 1 and a shaky first half of game 2.

This is why I look at the first 10 minutes of game 5. I think the Habs were about to mail it in at that point. If the Caps came out, like you said, and went all out in the first 10 minutes, turning up the heat and dominating in all fashions, I think the Habs would've folded.

I think that was the golden opportunity they passed on. After the Habs not only got out of the first 10 minutes, but were up 2-0, they got their confidence back and started playing the sturcture of their system again (they started getting away from it in Montreal too).

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 5:46 PM | Report abuse

sgm: I predicted 11 yrs, $71.5M for backie and it was 10 yrs/$67M.

Of course Caps are in multi-year talks with Fehr.

I will predict 2 yrs/$4.0-4.5M total.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

"This is why I look at the first 10 minutes of game 5. I think the Habs were about to mail it in at that point. If the Caps came out, like you said, and went all out in the first 10 minutes, turning up the heat and dominating in all fashions, I think the Habs would've folded."

yeah maybe so. The way I look at it is, the Caps are and rightfully so, under a magnifying glass. Which means, nothing short of a very consistent hardfought effort in a playoff series is acceptable. If they lose despite that, so be it. But their effort should never be in question. Not for a team that is looking for visible signs of forward progress.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Anyone clamoring for Thomas - or Chara, for that matter - either didn't see the B's epic collapse, and/or speak with Bruins fans with a clue [believe it or not, they exist - my cousins and brother, to name a few]. To quote one B's fan, "Chara's as big as a bus - that doesn't mean he's a good d-man." He looked terrible at the end of that series. And Tim Thomas, by all accounts, is not a good influence on young goalies - no, thank you!

Posted by: Timbo_1 | June 8, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

@tominsocal1

You got pretty close on the Backstrom comment so I'm curious to find out if there is trend here or that just happened to be your lottery winner.

I saw an article about signing RFAs(I think you commented on it) that had Fehr around $1.5M. I would guess that around $2M would make the most sense as does the 2 years.

I think if the Caps want him longer than 2 years they will have to cough up more money.

Also, I do want to point out that I was the one who guided you to the Flash/Clutterbuck idea by pointing out that Minnesota was interested in Flash and then asking who would be good to get from Minnesota. ;)

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Note to cstanton - how'd the B's do, with and without David Krecji in the lineup? 7-2 with, vs. 0-4, without? Huh - where's he from, again? Krecji, hmm - that sure doesn't sound Anglo-Canadian.

How about the Flyers, with and without Ville Leino? Sure doesn't very Canadian to me.

And the Hawks' goalie, who saved their season - where's he from, again?

Posted by: Timbo_1 | June 8, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Thomas' contract alone makes him untouchable for the Caps. He makes over $5M for the next three years. No thank you.

I'd take Chara for a year. But his $7M+ contract would be pretty restrictive on the Caps salary cap.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

sgm: Yes, you were a "guiding influence."

Fehr and Schultz both have I think three years before UFA. I am thinking McPhee tries to lock them up two years each so they have one more RFA contract. Otherwise you do 4 yrs and "buy" a year of FA.

Both players - two years at 2-2.25 each or 4 years at 3.0 each.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 6:01 PM | Report abuse

I agree with those numbers.

However, I have read a few things that may indicate that Schultz could receive a little more. That one article had him around $3M(didn't give term though).

My guess is Schultz gets more, mostly because of his much more extensive playing time. Both were productive throughout the regular season when on the ice.

Remember tominsocal1, I am always here to guide you in the right direction if you ever get lost.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Note to cstanton - how'd the B's do, with and without David Krecji in the lineup? 7-2 with, vs. 0-4, without? Huh - where's he from, again? Krecji, hmm - that sure doesn't sound Anglo-Canadian.

How about the Flyers, with and without Ville Leino? Sure doesn't very Canadian to me.

And the Hawks' goalie, who saved their season - where's he from, again?

Posted by: Timbo_1 | June 8, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

and then a big dummy enters the room.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 6:12 PM | Report abuse

@sgm - then you'd be acting on reputation alone, and not his recent performance. Chara was pretty ineffective most of the playoffs - and downright brutal toward the end vs. Philly.

Once Seidenberg went down his play suffered greatly.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | June 8, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Who's that, Don Cherry's acolyte?

Posted by: Timbo_1 | June 8, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

I shudder to think Schultz may even get close to $3M. He was invisible in the playoffs - when he wasn't getting torched.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | June 8, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Who's that, Don Cherry's acolyte?

Posted by: Timbo_1 | June 8, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

no, his name is Timbo. Which apparently stands for "i like to create an argument when previously none existed"

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 6:28 PM | Report abuse

note to Timbo:

Is Tomas Holmstrom Anglo-Canadian? How about Backs and Ovy? Or several dozen other players I like a lot who don't happen to be "anglo-canadian".

get a clue before you spew.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 8, 2010 6:31 PM | Report abuse

"If Theodore does not return and the Caps don't make any other moves in net this summer, that probably means they're going to go with their two 22-year-olds, Semyon Varlamov and Michael Neuvirth, next season."

Tarik, that sounds downright John Madden-esqe, as in: "the key to winning is to throw more touchdowns than the opponent."
We hold you to a higher standard than that.

Posted by: stateofcolumbia | June 8, 2010 8:19 PM | Report abuse

@ cstanton 1

I posted the links to the quotes in question, but the post did not go through. Anyway, if you search this blogs archives for the game wraps on 11/14/09 and 12/3/09, you'll find them.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 8, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Just to clarify, my posts are not intended to blame Ovi and Backstrom for the playoff loss. The only point I'm trying to make is that with 18 skaters and a goalie, more than 3 guys are responsible for the series loss. IMO everyone needs to be held accountable.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 8, 2010 10:14 PM | Report abuse

Neither Fehr nor Shultz have played well enough to justify a 2-3 million salary.

Posted by: calhokie | June 8, 2010 10:15 PM | Report abuse

GMGM told Walker and Corvo that they're not part of the Caps plans. Guessing games with Theo don't make much sense.

Posted by: miseaujeu | June 9, 2010 1:07 AM | Report abuse

@cstanton - maybe I was doin' a little agitatin' - but I've just seen too many posts (certainly not just from you, to be fair) and heard too many statements from my Canadian hockey buddies, disparaging European hockey players, and singling them out unfairly for abuse.

To wit: Flash came in for [more than] his share of criticism, and fair enough, I bet he'd be the first to say he wished he'd played better in the playoffs. Same with Semin. But Laich didn't do a damn thing until the tail end of the series, and he escapes unscathed. Ditto Schultz.

Final point: the top line of Richards, Gagne and Carter is a combined -16 in this Series - and has scored a total of 4 goals. But I don't hear anybody saying it's because they don't care enough.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | June 9, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company