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Posted at 12:32 PM ET, 12/12/2010

Alexander Semin fined for cross check

By Katie Carrera

TSN's Bob McKenzie reported that Capitals forward Alexander Semin has been fined by the NHL but will not be suspended for his cross check to the back of Colorado defenseman John-Michael Liles' head.

In the second period of Washington's eventual 3-2 loss to the Avalanche on Saturday night, Semin cross-checked Liles after the two had exchanged jabs in front of the Colorado net. Liles was bleeding after the altercation and Semin was given a five minute major for cross-checking and a game misconduct.

While the NHL will not prohibit Semin from facing the New York Rangers tonight at Madison Square Garden, the Capitals may have recalled have put right wing Andrew Gordon on standby for tonight's game. There is no official word from the team on a recall yet, but Gordon tweeted that he landed in New York this morning while the Bears are slated to play a game in Charlotte at 3 p.m.

The Capitals didn't hold a morning skate in New York -- the Knicks have a game that started at 12 p.m. there -- but I'll have more from Madison Square Garden this afternoon.

By Katie Carrera  | December 12, 2010; 12:32 PM ET
Categories:  Alexander Semin, New York Rangers  
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Next: Capitals recall Andrew Gordon

Comments

(Re-post) BTW, I had a great view of Semin's cross-check from my seat at last night's game. I guess you could say that if you are going to retaliate, you may as well get your money's worth. He certainly did that.

Posted by: zmega | December 12, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

i can dark side with the best of them:

the caps season is just like the metrodome roof - collapsing

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | December 12, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

should have been suspended for such a cs move....from behind no the less

Posted by: wendel2 | December 12, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

one heckuva xcheck. And he certainly got off easy. With all the attention given to hits to the head, that one certainly qualifies as suspension-worthy. Liles could easily have gotten a concussion from that.

Zmega I liked your comment on Hendricks' heart in Chimera's body. Couldn't agree more. Its that desire that is missing in too many of our players and Chimera certainly is no exception.

Also liked what Knuble had to say about streaks. You don't suddenly fall into one and you don't suddenly get out of it either. Bad habits start in winning streaks and good habits start in losing streaks. The way you get a more even-handed effort from your team is to address these bad habits when they crop up during wins. Something Bruce simply doesn't do.

And if he hasn't figured out that basic component of coaching by this time in his career I doubt he ever will. He's a good one-liner kinda guy, lotsa flash but little substance. And what's occurring this year is no different than what has occurred since Bruce took over. The bad habits still crop up and gain momentum during win streaks. The only difference is this year they can't get away with it as easily.

and that's a GOOD thing. Because its only the losing of games that will ever bring attention to the Caps' bad habits. No one wants to hear about what they did wrong when they win a game.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

should have been suspended for such a cs move....from behind no the less

Posted by: wendel2

if he balanced that type of move out with occasional face-to-face scrumming, then one can give him a little more benefit of the doubt. But Semin's only way to retaliate seems to be with his stick. He doesn't know how to do it any other way and the one time he tried he looked stupid v Staal.
What he should've done in that situation is whirled around and given Liles a nice pop. Maybe pushed him back into the goalie or something. That would've escalated into a little scrum around the net and maybe the penalties would've evened out. Or at worst we get an extra 2.

What always worries when this type of situation occurs with Semin is, he generally tends to withdraw even more and becomes fairly ineffective. He becomes less involved in the game. After his incident with Staal his aggressiveness on the ice completely vanished for a long period. Therefore, I expect him to be very meek tonight in NY. As always, I hope to be proven wrong!

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton01 - agreed that a suspension was warranted for how the xcheck wound up. But on the TV replays, it looked as though Semin was aiming between the shoulder blades which is where the initial contact was. The stick bounced off the Liles's shoulders and up into his head. Still Semin's responsible.

I had the strong impression that Semin was expressing frustration not personally at Liles, but at the whole idiotic mindset he has to deal with in the NHL, the one that allows Liles to crosscheck Semin sharply and repeatedly and not draw a foul although it's happening right there in front of the official. What's insane to me is that what Liles did was not a penalty. Still haven't heard an explanation for that.

I will say in advance that the idea that "if Semin dropped the mitts, no one would cross check him" is a non-starter. It would be the opposite - he'd get that crap every time he stepped on the ice because who wouldn't want to take him out of the game for 5 minutes...

Posted by: RedLitYogi | December 12, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Problem for Semin is he doesn't have a great reputation with players in the league. This will just add to that. He's not a little guy, he should have done it face to face.

Posted by: kcbrichmond | December 12, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

lol, agree that Semin should never drop the mitts. Its bad enough when Chimera and Steckel attempt it.

and also agree that Liles should've rec'd at least a minor if not a double-minor for that xcheck. Mind you, I have no problem with dmen who like to take some shots at skilled players. It is part of the game and has been for a long time and it won't change anytime soon. Its just funny that a player like Liles is the one who did it to Semin. And prolly why Semin reacted. I don't think he'd have done that vs a tough dman because that guy would've gotten up and blown up Semin.
But regardless, when Semin retaliated and the refs were forced to give him the major, they should at least have given Liles something as well.

But when something like that happens, that's when you send a msg to the other team (as soon as it makes sense) by running one or two of their skill players hard and maybe getting in their face after the whistle. Just to let the other team know you're going to offer up some resistance when one of your top scorers gets goaded into a penalty like that.

If Crosby had been the one who was ejected in that situation, guys like Cooke, Kunitz, Orpik, Asham etc would be very aware of what their next move should be.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure what "panic" means on here... do I panic because I think they will miss the playoffs because of this particular losing streak? No, I don't.

I don't think that's the reason some of us "panic". I panic because I haven't see any indication that this is a team that can go farther in the playoffs and win the Cup.

Again this is a group of players that have NOT proven anything in April, May and June. Nor have they proven that they can win tight, playoff-type close games CONSISTENTLY. They've done it one or two games here and there but have yet to do it for a two or three week stretch.

Till they do, there is plenty of reasons to panic no matter what Greenberg or anyone else says on here.

Posted by: joek443

you are exactly right Joek. As maligned as you are sometimes, this is exactly right.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

hey vermont,

fighting is as irrelevent as a two-dollar bill once the real season begins in April... I'm not sure what you get outta watching hockey or following this team.

would you rather see them win every fight or watch them skate around holding the Cup in June?

Posted by: joek443

you are exactly wrong.

You are grouping scripted fights in with heat of the moment fights. A heat of the moment fight is just a reflection of how hard your team is playing and where their mindset is. And sometimes that can even come from an incident at the end of a playoff game where a team that is losing wants to send that proverbial msg. They do it by running over the other team and stirring the pot. And when that other team responds, it can lead to some fights or scrums. I am in full favor of that. Its not as simplistic is 'sour grapes' either. Its just a way for teams to maintain their edge and not let another team skate off the ice with a win without paying some type of price and letting them know they'll be in for a long series. There is nothing more counter-productive than letting a team skate off with an easy win and offering up no physical resistance. I guess you can argue that sometimes suspensions may get handed out and that could be an issue. But I've seen enough teams adopt those tactics effectively without getting burned except for the odd incident here or there that it doesn't make sense not to send a physical msg at the end of a loss. Heck some teams are forward-thinking enough they'll send a physical msg at the end of a win.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

gotta say though that some of those Colorado D-men are impressive. Too bad we couldn't poach one of them...

Posted by: RedLitYogi | December 12, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton01 - def can see your point on the "heat-of-the-moment" scraps. Usually, a full fledged fight is unnecessary, long as they show up for the scrapes and scrums. I keep wondering how good Semin would be if someone could get some of Forsberg's spirit into him. If he could be possessed by that spirit for just this one year, the guy could write his own check next year.

Posted by: RedLitYogi | December 12, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

as to the comments about not playing DJK against "quick" teams, that's just crazy. How many slow teams are there in the nhl? seriously

Do the Flyers scratch Jody Shelley against "quick" teams? He's played in EVERY game this year. Maybe the Flyers just havent played any quick teams perhaps..

Does Jody Shelley only get to play teams that carry enforcers? again, no.

The Caps and their fans have to get away from this ridiculous notion that you only play your heavyweight tough guy against slow lumbering goonish teams. If you believe in the value of toughness, then you play your roster the way you want to without worrying about who the other team is or is not dressing. With some minor exceptions.

A guy like King can never get comfortable as such a part time player. At least someone like Eric Godard who doesn't play as often as he once used to has the benefit of a ton of NHL games under his belt where its not as hard for him to step into a game and not look out of place. And the Pens are one of the nhl's toughest teams anyway even without EG in the lineup.

I can understand how fans can get confused about these concepts. But its not excusable for the guys who run this team to fail to get these basic concepts.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Fighting - or not fighting - had nothing at all to do with why they lost to Montreal. Someone make a coherent argument that it did without throwing in some spiritual intangibles...


Posted by: RedLitYogi

i don't think anyone can make a coherent argument that if we had DJK in the lineup v Montreal that the results would have been different. But if you have a team that is very hardnosed, it will invariably lead to more scrums and fights. So if we had some fights or fracases occur in the Montreal series, it would've probably meant our team was more committed to playing intense playoff hockey without taking too many shifts off. And that would probably have led to a series win. Not because of the actual fracas. But because it would indicate a stronger committment to maybe a more aggressive forecheck, a better net presence, etc.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Since once again I have seen posts about BB and his playoff record I feel I have to once again remind people like 555 that BB has the second best playoff winning % in Caps history. Even Ron Wilson who is the only coach with a better % got all of his playoff series wins in one season. After the finals run (his first season) he was 0-2 in playoff series so 3-3 total. Terry Murray was 3-4, Bryan was 3-7, and Schoenfeld was 1-4. So yes if you just look at BB as 1-3 then he looks bad but when you compare him to all of the other coaches we have had he is better then some and not much worse then others.

Posted by: icehammer97 | December 12, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

@icehammer

my pevious post

lets look at the BB situation logically...there are 30 NHL teams...one wins the SC...BB has been an NHL coach for 3.5 seasons. He has made the playoffs every year so far. We have 2 first round losses in 7 games and 1 2nd round loss in 7 games. This is A LOT better than most NHL coaches making their start. His first two seasons we were not real contenders. His 2nd season we lost in the 2nd round in 7 games to the eventual SC champs...thats nothing to be ashamed of. We had a real upset last season...lots of teams have them. Things are not that bad when you put them in perspective.

Posted by: capscoach | December 12, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

comon fire bruce hell no he's guided the caps to playoffs every year since he got the promotion to the big leagues. I'm not concerned w/ this losing streak. I would rather them do it now than towards the end of the season. LET THE PENS GET THE PRESIDENT'S CUP!!!!! it is a curse i will be happy w/ 2nd or 3rd seed

Posted by: rclow | December 12, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

lets look at the BB situation logically...there are 30 NHL teams...one wins the SC...BB has been an NHL coach for 3.5 seasons. He has made the playoffs every year so far. We have 2 first round losses in 7 games and 1 2nd round loss in 7 games. This is A LOT better than most NHL coaches making their start. His first two seasons we were not real contenders. His 2nd season we lost in the 2nd round in 7 games to the eventual SC champs...thats nothing to be ashamed of. We had a real upset last season...lots of teams have them. Things are not that bad when you put them in perspective.

Posted by: capscoach | December 12, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Are you kidding? We were up 2 nothing to Pittsburgh. Choked it away.

Posted by: underpants2 | December 12, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

CStanton, re your point about King not being able to get comfortable unless he is more than a part-time player - when was he ever more than that? One season (2007-8) he played 61 games. The rest of his NHL career was 27-1-12-10-9 games. Guys who don't play much in any sport always argue that if they could just play more, they would be effective. The problem is, they don't show effectiveness when they do get in or in practice.

I suspect that a team like the Flyers, that is built primarily on toughness, can get away with playing Shelley by designing their systems (particularly on defense) to minimize the harm from having an overall team speed deficit. I also suspect (please tell me if I am wrong) that Shelley is quicker than King.

I don't know, you may be right, but watching the game last night it seemed to me that (especially in the first two periods) the Caps generally had a hard time keeping up with the Avs. I just don't see how King could have been even adequate defensively last night. Offensively, maybe - it could have been fun seeing him mix it up in the crease, as Vermont suggests.

Posted by: zmega | December 12, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

zmega DJ king was a healthy scratch last night

Posted by: rclow | December 12, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

@underpants

sorry, but the Pens were a better team. I realize that any credit given to BB or the Caps gives you some kind of allergic reaction, but they were not the best team that year.

Posted by: capscoach | December 12, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

CStanton, re your point about King not being able to get comfortable unless he is more than a part-time player - when was he ever more than that? One season (2007-8) he played 61 games. The rest of his NHL career was 27-1-12-10-9 games. Guys who don't play much in any sport always argue that if they could just play more, they would be effective. The problem is, they don't show effectiveness when they do get in or in practice
------zmega--

Is he going to get 61 games this year? I'd be happy if we played him 61 games and gave him adequate ice time in each game.

the other seasons you mentioned don't really factor into it because he was injured. In '06, he just got called up for the first time. That's why he only played 27 games in the nhl. That's very common for enforcers or really any player in his first NHL season who isn't considered a top player. He still played 65 games that yr between the AHL and NHL. So its not like he just sat around collecting rust. He needs to play a minimum of 60 games each yr in the nhl if he in fact is an nhl player. Barring injury of course.

He's at the point in his career now that he has at least shown he can survive in this league and its time to give him more of a chance to do it. Otherwise he's useless. To play him once every 6 or 7 games is just stupid. Are they admitting they made a mistake when they traded for him?


I'll go back to what I said when the trade was made. DJK is a decent NHL enforcing prospect. The Caps can either make him less than that or more than that based on how they attempt to develop him. But he certainly was never a very special enforcing prospect that required them to wait around to pull the trigger and then offer up a decent prospect in return. The Caps attempted to eliminate that role last yr. They decided to go back to it this yr. And because they weren't prepared with that kind of depth in the minors, they had to overpay. To get a guy like King, it should have cost them nothing.

heck I'd rather they have traded for Brad Staubitz instead of giving up SDR. At least Staubitz can play a regular shift and he's a very good middleweight fighter who knows his role and is also a heavy hitter. That would at least give us the equivalent of what the Rags, Flyers, and Penguins have in that similar role (Prust, Carcillo, Asham). That would mean more to us than carrying around an allegedly ultra-heavy who doesn't get ice time.

This org is CLUELESS about certain components in building a team.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

@underpants

sorry, but the Pens were a better team. I realize that any credit given to BB or the Caps gives you some kind of allergic reaction, but they were not the best team that year.

Posted by: capscoach

regardless, they still choked in game 7. Horribly poor effort and they deserved to lose because of that lack of effort. Not because the Pens were simply the "better team".

And they had a very uneven effort from their top 6 forwards in that series. They couldn't carry the puck into the zone and maintain puck possession. The Penguins forwards had no problems doing that to us. And if they ran into issues carrying the puck thru the neutral zone, they changed and went to a dump and chase game. The Caps top 2 lines didn't adjust their game. They just kept turning the puck over, our offensive zone time by our skill players was minimal.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

yup...but the Pens were better. We made it to game 7 against the eventual SC champs. Of course we had issues. We were very young and inexperienced. We can't always be great. we didn't deserve that series, but we didn't deserve to be tormented by it either...the Pens were just more experinced and more talented.

Posted by: capscoach | December 12, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

@Underpants. We were up 2-0 but all we really had done there was defend home ice. The Pens evened the series back up on home ice and made it a best of three.

Posted by: icehammer97 | December 12, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

And the rhetoric around the trade was a little nauseating. The Caps pretended they had been waiting for an opportune time to make the deal. BS

They claimed that the deal made sense because unlike other goons, DJK was really a guy who can skate a lot of minutes and still provide a lot of toughness. Hmm...maybe he can, but it doesn't seem like THEY believe that anymore. I still say, the continuing arms race in the EAST this offseason is what woke McPhee up and he made a knee jerk move.

They claimed that SDR wasn't going to be nhl ready for a few yrs. Tell that to him and the Blues. He doesn't look out of place, he's able to keep up with the play. And provides good energy when he's out there. He's making a positive impact. And he's playing a heckuva lot more frequently than is King.

oh yeah, and he's also only 20 yrs old. DJ's already 26 yrs old. Dangerously close to that age where he's going to get tagged as a journeyman player whose time for the NHL is about to pass him by.

yeah we really rap__ the Blues in that deal. McPhee's a genius!

the other nauseating rhetoric? Having to read SGM3's comments that after careful evaluation of DJK via game tapes, he has come to the conclusion that McPhee's comments about King are spot-on and that he in fact is a solid NHL enforcer who can play a regular shift and is not a dime-a-dozen tough guy. The day a fan like sgm3 can evaluate a player like King is the day they officially take me to a padded room. My guess is he never really watched any tapes at all and just used that to justify yet another deal by his favorite GM.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I wonder whether the Caps will have anything left for tonight. They put a lot of energy into last night's game, and a lot of them are ill.

Posted by: zmega | December 12, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

yup...but the Pens were better. We made it to game 7 against the eventual SC champs. Of course we had issues. We were very young and inexperienced. We can't always be great. we didn't deserve that series, but we didn't deserve to be tormented by it either...the Pens were just more experinced and more talented.

Posted by: capscoach

again, there is no excuse for not showing up in any playoff game much less a game 7. And then to read comments later about how the coaches and players were apparently frustrated because they thought they could do some real damage the rest of the way had they just gotten by the Penguins. lol, that is such a crock. They didn't have the intestinal fortitude to take it any further. That's why they mailed in their game 7 effort. You can talk about youth and inexperience but the fact is they choked. And I never use that word. I think that word is misused a lot. But they absolutely did choke. Showed a lack of heart and a lack of preparedness. You can chalk a miniscule amt of that upto youth/inexperience. But most of it falls on the coaching staff, and the makeup of that team. Which is on the GM.

with all that youth, perhaps it should've translated into youthful energy, no? instead of looking lethargic and just unwilling to do the work. If you go back and watch game 7 v the Flyers the previous yr, you'll notice some parallels there too.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

I wonder whether the Caps will have anything left for tonight. They put a lot of energy into last night's game, and a lot of them are ill.

Posted by: zmega


combine that with the fact they're playing a team that isn't very pleasant to play against. Physical D, and physical chippy forwards. And they're also coming off a loss.

just on paper, I expect the Rangers to hammer the Caps physically and only the requisite few Caps (Brads, hendricks, Ersk, maybe Ovy, Hannan, and Steck) will respond in kind. The Caps will find it harder to walk all over the crease in tonight's game. The Avs may have speed but they aren't physically imposing ala the Rags.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Rachel216 made a comment I agree with as well.

The type of effort they put out last night shouldn't be lauded as some kind of great accomplishment. That should be the type of effort you get in the middle of a good winning streak. Not after a 4 game losing streak. Lets face it, its not that praiseworthy to see them turn up the heat v a team on home ice like the Avs. Esp after they've lost some games in a row, and had their coach publicly question their effort. Anything less than an all-out ballzy effort would frankly have been very surprising in that circumstance. When they start playing like in 4 out of every 5 games, we can talk about dishing out some praise.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

I don't necessarily diagree that they choked in that game 7. But don't blame BB for that series. We choked in that game (fine),but we lost the series to a better team.

Posted by: capscoach | December 12, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

per the Rachel comment...true we always want them to pu forth that kind of effort, but we can still be happy that they made an improvement even if shouldhave already been there. Again...some of you seem determined to take away any good or positive observations/feelings for this team. it is NATURAL and perfectl acceptable to be happy the team improved.

Posted by: capscoach | December 12, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

I don't necessarily diagree that they choked in that game 7. But don't blame BB for that series. We choked in that game (fine),but we lost the series to a better team.

Posted by: capscoach

how do you figure? A coach who can't prepare his team to give an all out effort in a game 7 shouldn't be blamed for the series loss considering that series was lost ON that game 7 effort?

that's a little over the top. I don't put ALL the blame on Boudreau but he definitely showed me that he isn't a great coach with the way his team performed in front of him.

call me kooky, but i expect my coach's primary responsibility to be that of a motivator. If all he is is Xs and Os, he should be an asst coach. And frankly, that's what he's best suited to be. At least at this level.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

cstanton1

Excellent points on King! Particularly being scratched and thus not being able to get his mojo back. He would have CRUSHED McLeod last night and that could have completely changed the momentum of the game. In addition he would have got his convidence back, hushed his ignorant critics and maybe won some people over.

He really needs a couple dust ups with non top 5 fighters, but I doubt that will happen. Now we are likely to see him in the lineup tonight against the most feared enforcer in the league. He's been scratched and then thrown to the wolves (Orr and Boogaard).

For the person talking about DJK's limited games, it was because of injuries, not because he's unable to skate a regular shift in the NHL. When healthy he is one of the best enforcers in the NHL. He doesn't take stupid penalties like Brashear did, he can skate (quick for his size), is responsible/plays well in both ends. has good hands and simply has not been given a fair shake in DC.

As far as the staged fights? I don't mind them as long as they're not like the Domi vs Probert word of wars 3 days prior. A fight can set the tone for the game, change momentum and most importantly make the OTHER guys on the bench feel tougher.

For those who don't understand the enforcers, the NHL channel had a great one hour show dedicated to them. I believe it was called Tough Guys of The Game. It highlights a few enforcers and more importantly skilled players talk about their importance to the team. Generally they are the most admired and respected members of the team. I think they would know better than the fans as to their importance, just saying...

Posted by: FLDave | December 12, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

per the Rachel comment...true we always want them to pu forth that kind of effort, but we can still be happy that they made an improvement even if shouldhave already been there. Again...some of you seem determined to take away any good or positive observations/feelings for this team. it is NATURAL and perfectl acceptable to be happy the team improved.

Posted by: capscoach

respectfully i think you're offbase on this as well. If you're content to lower the bar for this team to where we're supposed to appreciate an effort like this which only occurs once every 10 games or so, then we may as well just call this year 1 of the next rebuild.

the fact that you're trying to convince me and others that its "NATURAL and perfectly acceptable to be happy the team improved" shows me that you're being very short-sighted. It shows me you haven't really learned that this type of improvement is always just temporary. And that once they win a few games their effort will once again be a sore spot around here.

this is a cycle. And likewise, to be happy when they play well and be sad when they don't play well is a little immature imo. I'd rather reserve my happiness for a longer stretch of games than just one game.

This team has not earned the benefit of the doubt just because they play well in one game. A game in which frankly their effort was totally predictable.

Their history speaks loud and clear. I've been talking about their sloppy efforts for a long while now. But when they can salvage a poor game with a great 10 minutes at the end of it, no one wants to dwell on the bad habits this team was cultivating. This yr its being focused on more because the Caps have been unable to salvage games that they played poorly in.

but last yr they had plenty of games where they had a less than acceptable effort. They were just able to turn a lot of those into wins. You can't do that as easily in playoff hockey. And thats why the teams with a better consistent work ethic do better in the playoffs. As long as they have at least some degree of requisite talent of course.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

and i didn't mean to call you immature capscoach. I should've stuck with 'short-sighted'. That was really my main point.

to me, it makes no sense to fool oneself into thinking that this one game is now the launching point to a whole new way of hockey for this team.

no one's denigrating the effort in last night's game. But it doesn't bring us great joy that they were able to put it together for one game. And then you look around and see other teams putting out this effort in almost every game.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

not short sighted...just trying to stay positive over something I have no control over. You are of course entitled to never be satisfied, but I will always find reason to enjoy this team. Sure they don't look very good right now, and chances are that we won't win the cup this season. Doesn't mean I am satisfied, it just means I don't want to be miserable all the time.

Posted by: capscoach | December 12, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

I suspect that a team like the Flyers, that is built primarily on toughness, can get away with playing Shelley by designing their systems (particularly on defense) to minimize the harm from having an overall team speed deficit. I also suspect (please tell me if I am wrong) that Shelley is quicker than King.

---zmega---

you think guys like Shelley started off as a polished product? Guys like him all start off a little choppy and then over time with some DEVELOPMENT and being put in different situations, are able to elevate their game. But don't think for a second that if the Caps had acquired Jody Shelley, that he'd have played every game this season with us. Organizationally, we don't think the way the Flyers do about that type of player.

The fact we employed Brashear as a fairly regular player was because some OTHER team developed him. Actually it was two teams. The Canucks and the Flyers. When Brash first came up with Montreal he was a pure goon. He couldn't change direction, he would just skate and run over people and then fight (and usually lose with his poor balance). Mike Keenan gave him many opportunities to play in different situations and that trend continued in Philly.

At the end of his career, he resembled what he was in the beginning. A stiff lumbering oaf. But he was a very effective enforcer for many yrs because he was fortunate enough to be in systems that understood how to develop his overall game.

Rest assured, if McPhee had been in charge of Brashear's development, he would never have had any kind of NHL career. The Caps therefore are just better off signing or trading for a tough guy that other teams have FULLY developed. Use em like a farm system I guess. And then allow him to actually do his job on the ice.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

You are of course entitled to never be satisfied, but I will always find reason to enjoy this team.

-capscoach--

never be satisfied? I guess because I don't lower the bar to such an extent that I trip over it like you obviously do, that somehow makes me unsatisfyable.

tell you what, give me the kind of team that gives a great effort on most nights and i'll be satisfied. Even if they don't the Cup.

is that raising the bar too high for you or this team?

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

One last thing:

watching the game last night, I scared the crap out of my dogs cursing at the tv. It is just my philosophy to allow myself a few minutes of frustration and then move on...or else I let my whole day get ruined. My refusal to stay negative has more to do with my mental well being than a peachy outlook at everything :)

and...no worries about imature...I think we are doing a lot better this go around debating than last time. Progress is good!

Posted by: capscoach | December 12, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

For those defending BB with all your might. Have you ever considered that any coach with a team with Ovechkin, Semin, Green, and Backstrom should make the playoffs? Yes BB deserves credit for turning up the offensive wick that Hanlon had no idea how to do, but maybe you only get so many brownie points for that...

Posted by: kcbrichmond | December 12, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

and...no worries about imature...I think we are doing a lot better this go around debating than last time. Progress is good!

Posted by: capscoach
lol

until you called me unsatisfyable, like my expectations are too high or something.

again, its kind of insulting that you think most of us are somehow bad fans because we don't jump for joy and pretend all is right with the world just because the Caps played hard in a game. Its not like we're ignoring the effort they put out. But that doesn't erase the continuing cycle this team engages in.

So far this season they've given a great all out effort in about 5 games, give or take a game.
That to me is unacceptable. The # should at least 20 at this point. Because other teams can do it at that pace.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

For those defending BB with all your might. Have you ever considered that any coach with a team with Ovechkin, Semin, Green, and Backstrom should make the playoffs?
-----------


it certainly seems that teams with much less talent on paper do better.

I still want to see this alleged dynasty that is being built here. The one where you know, we're gonna be winning 3 out of 5 Cups or something. I don't see it. It wouldn't surprise me to see this team go thru another transition here soon. New coach. Maybe new GM. New system. New direction in drafts.

I'm calling this yr ZERO of the next rebuild :)

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

@capscoach

In 2009, we swept the season series against the Penguins. We were up in that series 2 to 0. We choked, plan and simple. You have to win that series.

We let the Pens off the hook. Since then, we let Montreal off the hook. Here in Washington, we let everyone off the hook.

I don't blame BB, I blame McPhee. This is his mess and he should NOT be able to hire another coach.

IMO, we need to change personnel, not coaches.

Steckel and Fehr have been given every opportunity. It's time to try some other guys.

Again, I think it's time to cut bait with Semin as well. I realize this seems drastic, but I just do not believe giving him $6.5m+, for 10 years is smart. He has great value. I believe we can swap him and be even better. LA covets him. McPhee has everything he needs to bring this home, he just doesn't seem to want to.

Also, sometimes you need to separate the students for the sake of this class. Our team chemistry is a negative at this point.

My hope is that after this, McPhee sees it. I would be curious to hear your opinion.

Posted by: underpants2 | December 12, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

my comment that you are never satisfed may have come out wrong...of course calling people short sighted or imature isn't nice either...just different opinions and thats good.

It feels to me that your (and others) negative comments are unfairly disporpotionate to your positive observations...and thats fine b/c I like to debate and I may disagree with your overall outlook on things, I can't deny that you are very knowledgeable. We won't change each others minds, but at least we can keep it civil this go around

Posted by: capscoach | December 12, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

underpants2

Then you have Steckel who the Caps fans know. His ONLY redeeming quality is in the face off circle. Face off's are an important part of the game, but other than draws Steckel adds nothing to the team. I can think of NO other team in the league that would dress Steckel over King do to face off %.

You also have Fehr who the Caps fans know. He has been a complete bust at the NHL level and given more opportunities than much more talented players in Hershey. How ever he brings an apple to practice every day and is the teachers pet. .

Yet people call DJK a one dimensional liability based on SEVEN games. They never watched him play in St. Louis (I did) where he was a fan and team favorite. Ignorance is bliss...

Posted by: FLDave | December 12, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

my comment that you are never satisfed may have come out wrong...of course calling people short sighted or imature isn't nice either...just different opinions and thats good.
--cc--

i guess i should have called the opinion shortsighted, instead of directing it to your person. I'll make note of that for the next go around, cheers!

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 12, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Again, I think it's time to cut bait with Semin as well. I realize this seems drastic, but I just do not believe giving him $6.5m+, for 10 years is smart. He has great value. I believe we can swap him and be even better.

-underpants-

I am 100% against giving semin a long term deal...I doubt that is managements plan. I see them offering him 2-5 yrs. If at the trade deadline the two parties are nowhere close to a deal then yes, I would be ok with trading him for a REALLY good center.

Posted by: capscoach | December 12, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

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