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Backstrom: 'We have to keep going'

There's no question from anyone at KCI that the Capitals will miss Alex Ovechkin's presence, but they also agree that it's far from a death knell for a team loaded with talent. And the Capitals are anxious to remind everyone they can not just survive, but win, without the two-time Hart Trophy winner.

"It's going to be a challenge," Nicklas Backstrom said. "We have to show we can play without him. He's a great player and I think he doesn't want to be out, but. ... we have to keep going."

The most visible loss will be Ovechkin's goal-a-game average and offensive presence. But the Capitals know they don't necessarily need to score an extra goal a game to make up for the 24-year-old's absence, and that making a concerted effort to rededicate themselves defensively can have the same effect.

"It's probably a long time coming," Mike Knuble said of the Capitals' need to focus on defense. "We've probably gotten away with it because of the amount of goals he scores, just outscoring teams, and that's not the way its going to happen and the way it can happen all the time."

The Capitals know they have plenty of options to fill in on the scoring as they try to break a two-game losing streak Wednesday in New Jersey, whether it's Backstrom, Knuble, Alexander Semin, Brooks Laich or any other player who emerges to fill the score sheet. They also can't use Ovechkin's absence as an excuse of any kind, especially, as Knuble pointed out, with a day to prepare in practice without him.

"It can be a crutch for a team at times [to have a player like Ovechkin.] He'll come through on a lot of nights," Knuble said. "Now you come in the game knowing what the situation is. You're not losing him [in the middle] of the game and everybody's going, 'Oh what's going to happen, the lines are messed up,' and all that. You have a day of practice; you know the deal going in and you prepare for it."

With so many notable players suffering from injuries across the league -- Atlanta's Ilya Kovalchuk, Pittsburgh's Evgeni Malkin and Sergei Gonchar and Montreal's Andrei Markov, to name a few -- Coach Bruce Boudreau reiterated that the Capitals can't feel sorry for themselves without Ovechkin. They'll get no sympathy from their opponents.

"As much as he gets all the press, I've gotta believe we're not a one-man team and there's still a lot of good players there," Boudreau said. "Kovalchuk's out, [Eric] Staal's out for Carolina and other teams are just moving on and they keep going. We've got to be the same way."

*Boudreau said Eric Fehr (ribs) will not play against New Jersey Wednesday but was cryptic about how his absence will impact the forward lines.The Capitals may choose to move Tyler Sloan up to forward again rather than recalling another player from Hershey, as the Bears will be in Boston on a road trip tomorrow.

*John Erskine (bruised hand) has been medically cleared to play against the Devils, but Boudreau didn't say if the rugged defenseman would be in the lineup. He has missed the past eight games. Boudreau did not have an update on Boyd Gordon (back).

By Katie Carrera  |  November 3, 2009; 2:41 PM ET
 
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Next: Morning roundup: 'We're not a one-man team'

Comments

Saturday April 3rd- mark it down - revenge will be sweet.

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Get rid of Fehr.

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone noticed that all of the major players hurt are Russian players: Malkin, Kovalchuk, Gonchar, Markov... think there may be a Canadian conspiracy to make sure Russia doesn't win the Gold in Vancouver?

j/k ;-)

Posted by: MikeL-Caps911 | November 3, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

From previus thread............Come April 3rd...Mrs Chimera....meet MR. Finley

Posted by: RichC3 | November 3, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone noticed that all of the major players hurt are Russian players: Malkin, Kovalchuk, Gonchar, Markov... think there may be a Canadian conspiracy to make sure Russia doesn't win the Gold in Vancouver?

j/k ;-)

Posted by: MikeL-Caps911 | November 3, 2009 2:49 PM |

I said last night that perhaps they are just "resting up" for the olympics....better to take it easy earlier in season, so as not to make it seem too obvious...

But, as I also said, I hope they all have speedy recoveries, because hockey is just more fun to watch when all the stars are in the lineups!

Go Caps!

Posted by: The_Stanley_Caps | November 3, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Ilya Kovalchuk and Eric Staal may be bad examples... Let's hope OV's injury affects the team more like Malkin and Gonchar's absence (i.e. pretty much not at all).

Posted by: Raber | November 3, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

How's that not having an enforcer on the team working out for you GMGM?

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Some is really working today at the WP, it is hard to keep up. LOL.

I want to answer three people responses to one of my previous posts, I think everyone deserves an answer.

@capschick
Determined to push Semin down?" He's been on the 2nd line plenty this season. It's not like it's a demotion -- Bruce is trying to find a place for him, and a way to get him to wake up and play like he cares for more than a couple of shifts per game. An insurmountable task, IMO.

Posted by: CapsChick |

You are right. I used the wrong word, I should have said keep down. As for trying to find a place for him, and not giving it an effort for more than a couple of shifts, are you kidding me? You do realize with two less games played than the other forwards he is tied with OV and Knuble in takeways and they are one less than the leading Backstrom, he has less give-aways than both backstroum and OV, he is second to OV in goals, and third to ov and Backs on points? There are two consistencies with Semin. 1) he has a rotating set of partners which would affect the effectiveness of 99% percent of players, and 2) he still manages to be a great player despite BB's antic way of using him.
----------------------

@irockthered
Once again, I need to correct my words. I should have not said "push down" as it could infer "demotion" when in fact I meant to say "keep down" as "I am going to make it hard for you to succeed". I really don't pay attention to the line number, I pay attention to the line combinations, and semin seems to be always the guy who have to adjust to new partners. In my opinion I think that the future is our young guys and they should be playing together, they seem to play well together and the longer they stay that way the better they will be. I also think that Morrison and Knuble are much better together than when they are separated. I think Flash is a good compliment to that pair. BB is hurting the team in the long run by experimenting with line combinations which separates the young trio, and I believe the root of BB thoughts is his dislike for European play, he can not seem, or is unwilling, to adjust to that type of play. The team suffers, as he doesn't take advantage of all the weapons he has ... maybe that is one of the causes of the problem with Nyls? I am afraid the next guy to go that route is semin, he does not hesitate to call him out for a single mistake while ignoring others.

--------------------------
@tess2201

"Determined to push Semin down"? You win the prize for most stupid comment of the morning. - Posted by: tess2201

More stupid than the one you made? That one-cell brain of yours was really active today, eh? In any case thank you.

Posted by: hock1 | November 3, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

@lyle: The problem with a dedicated enforcer is that they have to be on the ice when the s***storm breaks, which doesn't happen much. What really needed to happen, IMO, is that instead of offering to drop, Bradley and ShaMo should have dropped the gloves then and there and beaten the stuffing out of Chimera for that. Take the instigator if you have to, but don't put up with that.

I still don't think that an enforcer is the answer - the stars didn't get run any less last year with Brash in the lineup. I'm still in favor of all the guys pitching in and carrying that load.

Posted by: kittypawz | November 3, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Why does this team need Sugden? To take up a roster spot so we can see a staged fight? It's time for the regular teammates to take up for each other! It's November. Who cares about the penalties.

As for Semin, I hear he is injured too. I remember him taking a cross check to the back at the end of the Islanders game. Other posters have said they have seen him skating awkwardly after hits, so maybe that's the reason he is on the 2nd line.

Posted by: ablake70 | November 3, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

@Kitty - guys do not have to be on the ice at the time. The culprits will have to answer later in the game...that is the self-policing that has always gone on in this league to protect the star players. A PP will not protect your players - it's idiotic reasoning going against the tradition of the game. Chimara did not care about a PP against him- his job was to run OV all night. We do not have the intimadating toughness to deter that kind of action-coaching.

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

@Kitty - guys do not have to be on the ice at the time. The culprits will have to answer later in the game...that is the self-policing that has always gone on in this league to protect the star players. A PP will not protect your players - it's idiotic reasoning going against the tradition of the game. Chimara did not care about a PP against him- his job was to run OV all night. We do not have the intimadating toughness to deter that kind of action-coaching.

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I'm with kittypawz on this. The team doesn't need an enforcer, rather, they just need to do a better job of sticking up for each other.

Posted by: cainoo7x | November 3, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree with hock1 about BB. I've never seen a coach so eager to break up a line combo that's effective.

Posted by: ablake70 | November 3, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Got to go with the enforcer. I believe the Caps were just as ease with Brash on their squad as I was watching at home. I don't remember at any time in the last two years or so that teams did go after our star or stars as the BJs did. Some players are lovers and not fighters, and we have a whole roster of that type. We need to make room for on tough guy to kick someone's ass when they take a run at our bread and butter.

Posted by: coastallp74 | November 3, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

lylewimbledon:
why would you need an enforcer to 'run/hit' the other teams top players. seems like everyone on the team should be able to provide a solid check on an opponent. 'if' an enforcer had been on the ice during that scrum - then maybe it would make a difference. this team doesn't need a fighter/goon - it needs everyone to stick up for everyone else (semin and schultz included)

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Everyone has been running our stars this year, because no one but Erskine(hurt) or Bradley will step up-not exactly the intimidation that instills fear in the other team's goons. How many little chops- slashes-cross checks have gone on after the play or in the crease that never get answered? Brashear served a purpose even if it wasn't fighting. I'm sorry a potent power play will not scare people in the heat of the battle. Toughness has been our achilles heal for years now- how many people still see Crosby sitting in our crease whacking at the puck-goalie 4-5 times. Toughness and defense win championships- we are lacking both.

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

so lets suppose the caps still had brash or an enforcer of his ilk. is he going to step on the ice and pummel nash either in response or as a deterrent? no way. he'd be lucky to catch him. no, he'd end up fighting their tough guy and we have some fun, but does it deter them any? doubtful. but if the caps as a team decide to hit nash and every other guy on the team, perhaps they back off. if brads or erskine or clark have to drop em, so be it.

i understand the idea of an enforcer, i just dont think it really needed in this case. you need a guy like brash if they have a guy like orr who's going to run around a bit and take liberties. in that case, having an enforcer out there to offset that makes sense. i dont get the sense that chimera or boll or those type of guys. i could be wrong...of course.

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | November 3, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

@Kirk

it's not the fight- it's the presence of tough guy. It's the fear of retribution for your extreme actions. Ovie got ganged up- yeah we had a nice scrum along the bench but that was it. I'm going to run at him all day if I know the only thing coming to me is a jersey pull or face wash.

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

@DCsportsfan.

No Brash would have ruined Nash...or GMGM would have said we can live with Ovechkin because we will go 1 for 7 on the power play.

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

without Ovechkin-sorry

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

You are right. I used the wrong word, I should have said keep down. As for trying to find a place for him, and not giving it an effort for more than a couple of shifts, are you kidding me? You do realize with two less games played than the other forwards he is tied with OV and Knuble in takeways and they are one less than the leading Backstrom, he has less give-aways than both backstroum and OV, he is second to OV in goals, and third to ov and Backs on points? There are two consistencies with Semin. 1) he has a rotating set of partners which would affect the effectiveness of 99% percent of players, and 2) he still manages to be a great player despite BB's antic way of using him.

Posted by: hock1 | November 3, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Not really, since I don't watch those stats much and don't put a tremendous amount of stock in stats. Rather, I watch every game, and I often see multiple lazy mistakes per game - not isolated incidents as you suggest. We can agree to disagree, I just believe his game has matured very little over the years he's been here, and that it remains to be seen whether the promise he showed under Feds' tutelage will endure without it.

I really don't think he is being singled out by BB, except that BB has noted (for example, during last season's playoffs) that all the talkings-to about stupid penalties, etc. have seemed to fall on deaf ears. Personally, I have the impression that Semin is more or less uncoachable, but that's just MHO.

I noticed his quote that he expects more ice time and responsibility in Ovechkin's absence, almost as though he feels Ovie has been holding him back. It will be interesting to see if he steps up in the next few games.

Posted by: CapsChick | November 3, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

With regard to comments in the previous post and Hitchcock's candid statement is it not possible that we did respond to the Blue Jackets strategy but not in the most efficient way? From what I saw it seemed to me there was a lot of slashing going on, mainly by Caps players. It's easy for refs to see and call slashing penalties, not so easy for them to call well timed hits that put opposing players onto the ice and into the boards. Oh and BTW, do it at the appropriate times (just in case). If other teams follow the same strategy we're gonna have to learn how to do this.

Posted by: FloridaCapsFan | November 3, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

the caps are a very talented team but they're NOT talented enough to just dazzle every team in the playoffs. maybe in the first round but it's just not gonna happen beyond that.

they still lack toughness and defensive discipline. if they don't add either of those things, they will have the same playoff results as last year.

Posted by: joek443 | November 3, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

lylewimbledon:
Toughness and defense win championships- we are lacking both.
i can get behind this statement.

having a brash type player on the team is not enough of a deterrent for the other team. one guy that can fight will not intimidate a dozen guys that are willing to hit. if we had a dozen guys willing to hit back - that could be a deterrent

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Amen CapsChick and Joek443

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

@Kirk

Indeed - we have a lot of pretty players without scars especially on defense.

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Also, maybe OV should lay off the big hits until the playoffs. I would like to see him play for a few more years yet.

Posted by: FloridaCapsFan | November 3, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCkUjPqFLaU

this is what they need, team toughness and a captain who's always in the middle of every confrontation

Posted by: joek443 | November 3, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

@Joek

I wish we could clone 32 forever in a Caps uniform.

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

lylewimbledon:
maybe we are all just arguing the same point with different terminology.
my definition of an enforcer is someone more in line like brash - not many skating skills left but can punch someones lights out - basically a goon.
by that standard - i contend the caps to not need and enforcer/goon

what is needed is team toughness and the willingness to stick up for your teammate. bradley might be a punching bag - but if he's on the ice he'll get invovled, erskine is the same way. the problem arises when no one else on the ice is stepping up to support their teammate. the only other way to deal with getting pushed around is to push back, lay a nash out in open ice if he has the puck with his head down, don't 'let up' just before giving a check along the boards while going for the puck.
'team' toughness is what the caps need more of - they either need to teach it or find the right mix of players that can execute it. (but not schultz - even though he doesn't hit much - i still like him, semin too i guess)

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I am, in a way, excited about playing a couple games without Ovechkin. Don't get me wrong, I would WAY rather him in the lineup (perhaps the most obvious thing anyone has ever said) but it seems that he is the only one who is playing consistent hockey this year. Others have had their games to stand out, but have also blended in just as frequently (Backstrom has played relatively well on a consistent basis is the main exception). I am excited to see who steps up and elevates his game (as Laich did on Sunday).

That being said, GET BETTER SOON OV.

Posted by: Aldred15 | November 3, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

FloridaCapsFan:
Also, maybe OV should lay off the big hits until the playoffs. I would like to see him play for a few more years yet.

the caps haven't had much luck in teaching others give the 'big hit' - i don't think they would have much luck un-teaching it to ovi - he is the rare talent that appears to play on instinct alone

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Russian players are faking injuries to save their legs for Olympics.

Mother Russia is bigger then NHL...Expect nothing less then gold for USSR.

Posted by: SA-Town | November 3, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

a good report on this topic:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4619290&name=lebrun_pierre

Posted by: lylewimbledon | November 3, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Wow, was there a d-man on the Caps who wasn't thrown under the bus in that rant?

Posted by: cainoo7x | November 3, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

I'm of the mind set that we do not need an enforcer. On Sunday, after OV was jumped, run at and injured, Bradley when after Chimera who wanted no part of him.

Bradley, Clark, Steckel or someone with a little muscle should have then started running at Nash. Did this happen - no.

I would have preferred us forfeiting 2 points for a win (assuming the Caps would accrued penalty minutes and allow a goal or two) in exchange to sending a message to Columbus and the rest of the league that you mess with our stars - we'll go after yours harder.

You don't need an enforcer to do this.

Posted by: puckman | November 3, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

The caps are missing a gritty forward with good hands and size. I thought Knuble would be that guy but he does not have the mean streak like hunts, tochet, the 'tick', domi, tucker, etc. A guy that just gets under your skin and is in your best players face all game and will take your head off when you put your head down for too long. Matt Cooke filled that roll nice when he was brought in for the playoffs. He would clean you out and if you made a mistake would put it in the net. None of the muckers really play with that nasty intimidating edge. I think GMGM needs to find a guy like that or develop a player like that.

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | November 3, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

joek443

Thanks for the link. Great memories. That's when the team used to stick up for one another. I agree with some of the posters here -- Caps probably don't need an enforcer per se, but at least they should stick up for one another. They should have run Nash like they ran Ovie. They should have crunched Chimera and that piece of s*it Boll. Maybe they need to see that link and others like it and know that when one of your teammates is hunted/hurt/run etc, you need to stick up for him and send that message back the other way.

Posted by: Puckdawg69 | November 3, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

joek: You can have the team that would brawl like that during the 1998-99 season. They were coming off of a Stanley Cup Finals loss and finished 14 games under .500. That was a talented line on the ice, Hunter and Berube on the same line.

Posted by: fanohock1 | November 3, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

I agree with you guys about sticking up for one another for sure. That's why it will be nice to have Erskine back. The guy might not have the most skill in the world, but he is by far the most hard nosed player on the blue line.

I think we need an enforcer, without a doubt. Bradley can fight a bit, but Clark's hard-nosed days are well behind him. I didn't like Brashear to be perfectly honest, but no one can tell me that he wouldn't have sent a message to someone on Columbus after Ovechkin was hurt.

Posted by: Aldred15 | November 3, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Aldred15:
it is true that brash would have sent a message to someone - however if that someone was the other teams enforcer and not either chimera or boll - then the message is useless.
the 'enforcer vs enforcer', imo, does nothing to deter the avery's of the league

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Knubs is EXACTLY right....a long time coming. it is time for the so-called "system" to be adjusted, or the architect needs to move along. this team needs more balance between run & gun offense and hard work/grit/responsible D.

Posted by: doughless | November 3, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

from previous post:

i remember a few months ago ago this blog when everybody was against tough guys and all for Detroit-style team. there were a few here that suggested toughness (i.e., a decent brawler) is still a desirable quality. how the times have changed.

Posted by: doughless | November 3, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: doughless | November 3, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

doughless:
when everybody was against tough guys and all for Detroit-style team

i've always been 'for' toughness and 'against' an enforcer.
detriot does not have an enforcer but it could easily be argued that they are 'tougher' than the caps.
getting pushed around and manhandled by other teams will not be solved by 'a decent brawler' - but by more team toughness.
the guys on the ice at any given time will need to stick up for each other. waiting for a brawler to come off the bench is too little too late imo.

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Capt_Kirk- I believe team toughness as you describe is the ideal situation but unfortunately for the current Caps roster, it's just not there. For a team like ours a legitimate heavyweight like Brash was perfect because we lack that team toughness.

Posted by: FunkyGloveFacewash | November 3, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

@ lylewimbledon

that was an interesting story about the conversation between Bowman and Yzerman. kinda reminds of the relationship between Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson ( a Bowman admirer) in the beginning.

Jackson conviced MJ to buy into his system and when MJ did that, that's when they started winning all their championships together.

as fans we have to ask this question - do we want an exciting team or a championship team? because they don't often go hand in hand. NO team short of the offensive talent of the Edmonton Oilers of the 1980's can win the Stanley Cup without defensive discipline - and that sometimes means boring hockey. And as I often said as talented as the Caps are, they are no match for those Oiler machines.

Posted by: joek443 | November 3, 2009 6:49 PM | Report abuse

FunkyGloveFacewash:
i'm still not sold on a legitimate enforcer (like brash) as the sole deterrent. there is no real way to know just how effective brash was, as we have no way of knowing what players 'kept to themselves' so they didn't have to deal with brash.
brash would skate between 5 and 9 minutes a game and not provide any real skill - just the toughness i'd like to see in some of the other guys on the team - and a few fights.
i was hoping a few guys (not bradley or erskine) would 'step up' and assume some of that role (toughness, not fighter) - however schultz's (among others) 'love' taps in the corners really are not cutting it at this point.
at $1.4M a year - i just don't see an enforcer as money well spent considering the current cap issues.
maybe they could amend everybodys contracts to included bonuses for toughness - during film 'sessions' the whole team could vote on what qualifies for getting the bonus
(i know, i know - that will never happen)
i still stand by my original thought that the whole team needs to get tougher and stay away from the heavyweights

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 6:54 PM | Report abuse

joek443:
the caps don't have as much offense or defense as the 80's oiler had. i do think the current caps would have a 50/50 shot at beating any of the current 'elite' teams, with or without home ice.
however - to be a perennial contender, they will at some point need to sacrifice some offense for more/better defense. that could mean the style of play to the personnel they put on the ice.

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse

For those that think fighting is going away because Gary 'the weasel' Bettman has made that his mission, don't be fooled. Fighting is a necessary part of hockey that is also probably the most misunderstood part of the sport. I've always loathed the expression 'If you have to ask you wouldn't understand', it's pretentious and obnoxious, but I'm afraid when it comes to the matter of fighting in hockey, I may have to make an exception.

Posted by: FunkyGloveFacewash | November 3, 2009 7:03 PM | Report abuse

the time has come Caps fans, to bring in Sugden. Sorry scratch Laing and insert Sugden or that guy Squigs. They may not score any goals but they'll sure entertain the fans!

Posted by: ReedRothchild | November 3, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

From previous threads:

So now Hitchcock admits that the Blue Jackets were targeting OV.

I notice that the next time the Caps play the Blue Jackets is April 3. I figure the Caps will probably have their division won by that time, so the game will be "comparatively" meaningless.

My suggestion to Boudreau. Don't even bother playing Ovi that day. Just make him a healthy scratch -- for his own protection. (This is so we can "save" him for the playoffs.) Also, while I'm normally not a big fan of enforcers who are nothing but enforcers, we can call up Sugden for the occasion and he can take care of the various people on the Blue Jackets.

While Ovi can generally defend himself, I just don't want to take any chances that close to the playoffs.

(Of course, if the Caps are out of contention or if they're fighting to squeak into the playoffs, my recommendation will probably be different.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Capt_ Kirk - I too wish we had more guys on the team that would step up in that department and also agree that as good as Brash was at fighting, he was as much a liability. I expect the changes in the leagues stance on fighting will actually create more skilled fighters in the years to come and by that I mean the fighters can actually play too. For now though the Caps are dealing with a roster that inspires no fear in any opponent from a toughness standpoint. The only thing any team fears about the Caps right now is our skill, and that can be eliminated real quick by cheap shots from cheap players that fear no retribution.

Posted by: FunkyGloveFacewash | November 3, 2009 7:15 PM | Report abuse

Disagree that Semin is uncoachable. Note: this is the same guy who had a big minus during his 1st 3 years and was a plus last year. (He's a plus so far, even if not a high number.) This year, his penalty minutes are not bad. (Of course, we have numerous other people taking bad penalties this year.)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Also disagree with the "latest" set of lines in practice.

I would have left the lines (#1 and #2) the way they ended up Sunday or possibly switched Flash and Laich to match up different skill sets together. I would have kept Knubs/Morrison and Backstrom/Semin together.

Here it was, I said jokingly after Friday's game, "Will Flash make the front line?" I have been proved prophetic.

May Flash, Semin and the others step up to the plate.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

CapsFan75- I agree. Last season Semin made huge strides in improving his defense, of course he still took way too many lazy stick penalties but so far this year those lazy penalties are down.

Posted by: FunkyGloveFacewash | November 3, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

I recall another team (a long time ago) had lost a key player to a broken leg. They were holding on to a slim lead in their race. Everyone thought they were done for. But other guys stepped back and that player came back and they became champions.

What team was that? Why it was the St. Louis Cardinals of 1967. They had lost pitcher Bob Gibson with a broken leg. He was far and away their best pitcher (but the other pitchers were good but very underrated.)

Maybe the Caps of this year will be like the Cardinals of 1967. That's what I'm hoping for.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

@FunkyGloveFacewash

Well it's hard for anyone to improve all deficiencies at once. (Like Semin)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Before this season, a poster (can't recall whether it was a blogger or someone posting a comment on a blog) said that maybe the best thing that could happen to Semin was for Ovi to get hurt and miss a bunch of games so we could see what Semin could do.

Okay, I guess now is the time. (I believe in you, Sasha!)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

I think I'm agreeing with joek and Capt Kirk above.
1) Caps don't need an enforcer
2) Caps DO stick up for one another
3) Caps have a tremendous amount of talent
4) Sometimes talent and toughness are mutually exclusive
5) Caps really, really, really need a guy like Mark Tinordi on D.

To win the Cup, a team needs to do everything well and some things exceptionally well. Look at the Pens last year. MAF was "good enough" in goal. The defense had just enough grit and stopping power. Offense had exeptional talent.

Caps have that talent and maybe the goaltending. Our body-banging is average and our D is unbalanced - too much finesse not enough power. Forget the Nylander situation - if you could move Poti and Pothier and get a Bob Rouse and a Joe Reekie - we'd be better off I think.

I don't want to go back to the lunchpail Caps where the boards rattled all night long but we came up short. The boards though MUST rattle some - and they only rattle with Ovie. Someone else - please.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 3, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

To continue, I think a lot of guys could hit more:

ShaMo
Laich
Clark
Steckel
Fehr

We have some pretty big players on this team that don't use the body as much as you'd expect. Detroit is that perfect example of winning sans goonery. I was just watching for awhile B's and Wings and this guy Helm is impressive. He skates fast and when he's on the ice - the other team better look out.

Not only did Hunter hit on the old Caps but Dino Ciccarelli (my favorite) used to throw himself at anyone on the other team and then take repeated crosschecks in front of the net to score. Sometimes toughness is just because you hate to lose more than you love winning. Maybe that's what the Caps need - more players like Ovie who hate to lose even more than they love winning.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 3, 2009 8:03 PM | Report abuse

Red wine for home game...white wine for road game...what to do for an off day...don't drink?

In a word - no.

2006 Five Rivers Cab. A nice wine for ten bucks.

When in doubt - Rock the Red.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 3, 2009 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Uh, I"ll take someone who can put a little fear into the opposition over a laing, gordon, etc. any day of the week. Ask Betts, Bogosian, Cote or any of his former teammates if Brash is effective in his role. Caps don't have the available cap space to use on this type of player because of GM poor decisions signing marginal role players and players past their prime to inflated long term contracts. He can now use his excuse that our our PP will be our enforcer, but you see what just happened. Now we are paying for it as our star are getting targeted and more teams will do the same.

Posted by: StanleyCap | November 3, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

tominfl1- If anything you should drink more on an off day,maybe some whiskey,lol! I would also love to see more hitting from more guys. I think the necessity of an enforcer is relative to the team toughness. True we have guys that will stand up for others but not enough and the ones that do don't scare anyone in the league.

Posted by: FunkyGloveFacewash | November 3, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

What we're talking about isn't just hockey, it's about life and the willingness to sacrifice. Look, everyone who plays in the NHL is way "tougher," physically, than the average person.

Did any of you get checked into the corridor walls at work today?

"Whoa! And tominfl1 is down! And there goes his calculator!"

But, let me tell you, I recently did a $2B cost estimate, on my own, and all the Corporate fathers approved the bid based on my number. A guy can F up in hockey and the goalie makes a big save and it's fixed. If my number is wrong, lots of people are F'd.

Toughness is a thing that isn't punching people in the face or taking cheap shots. It's doing your job and being responsible. Not cutting any corners at all. Dotting the I's and crossing the T's. I'm not saying I'm tough. I think I did my job. I'm sure there's a mistake somewhere. You can't put together 60 minutes of hockey or a thousand calculations in a huge estimate without something not being perfect.

The Caps are a young team. They love the glamour. I'm not sure they understand fully the hard work part.

The more I think about it, really, really think about it, the more I think the Captain needs to step up.

Ovie is out. Backie is making comments. Where's Clark? Not only do we need Tinordi on defense, we need his leadership. This team is close. But that last step is wicked.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 3, 2009 8:26 PM | Report abuse

@tominfl1

Agreed with the points in your last post.

You named the same d-man as I do when talking about guys who should be traded or let walk: Poti and Pothier. I do recognize their talents and they do have their upside but they're both in their early 30's and expensive. Pothier's an inspirational story. I think we'd be better served in the long run with our kids from Hershey (Alzner and Carlson) than with either of them.

I forget when Poti's contract reaches its end. I know Pothier's expires at the end of this year.

Yes, it would be nice to get a good shutdown defensemen but no team would give one up for Pothier and/or Poti.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 8:29 PM | Report abuse

The news on Ovi gets worse. Now, Yahoo reports that Boudreau hopes that Ovi won't be out for more than two weeks.

Not good! Hope the boys step up!

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 8:45 PM | Report abuse

That is fine Mr. Hitchcock. Just be prepared for Rick Nash to be targeted in the future.

Posted by: rockinthered1 | November 3, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

lol, the Caps don't target anyone. Its not their style. Its not McPhee's style, its not Boudreau's style, and because of that its not the team's style. They had all game to hit Nash and Kris Russell and they chose not to.

The Caps aren't the Flyers, they're not even the Penguins. This team lacks a hardnosed mentality. They prefer to play in non-physical non-intense matchups. They're like the Ottawa Senators of a few yrs ago, lots of skill, lots of points in the reg season, and then trouble.

Posted by: cstanton1 | November 3, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

FunkyGloveFacewash:

The wine bottle having been drained, I'm off to check what we have in the whiskey dept....ok, I have this stuff called Wiser's - it's Canadian.

Whiskey always reminds me of Clint Eastwood. What if he played for the Caps?

Eli Wallach: "Hey, Blondie, you think you can win the draw?"
"Drop the puck and we'll see."
EW: "I think I will beat you."
"Are you feelin' lucky tonight, punk?"
EW: "And when I beat you, huh, what will you say to your teammates?"
"They'll still be my teammates."
EW: "You know, Blondie, you're not so bad...I mean for a Washington Capital, you're not so bad. You could even be my friend."
"Shut up and play."

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 3, 2009 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Yes, I posted this before but now the Blue Jackets admit that they were targeting Ovi. Just for that, I'm ready to root against them for the rest of the year. I will root for them to miss the playoffs entirely. If they make the playoffs, I will root against them.

If by some fluky chance they make the Stanley Cup and are playing the Penguins, I'll be ready to puke.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 8:49 PM | Report abuse

CapsFan75- I'm confident Semin and others will step it up and the team will be better for it in the long run. I wish OV could play every game but the rest of the the team will grow stronger in his absence.

Posted by: FunkyGloveFacewash | November 3, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

@FunkyGloveFacewash

I sure hope so. We need some nice strong games from Semin (and maybe his critics can finally shut up once and for all.)

Sometimes, it seems that Semin has no margin for error.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 8:59 PM | Report abuse

cstanton: You can't arbitrarily and subjectively declare the Caps to be a reincarnation of the early-to-mid 00's Senators until the Caps fail repeatedly incl getting whipped in the Finals.

There remains a huge FUNDAMENTAL difference (apologies to Joe Biden there for borrowing his line - call me the "scrappy kid from Baltimore" if you will) between those Sens and our Caps

Their leader was Alfredsson, ours is Ovechkin.

Alfredsson was a great player in his day. But, to paraphrase another politician, whose name escapes me, "Sir, I know Mister Ovechkin, and he's no Alfredsson."

There, cstanton1, you have my rebuttal. Your turn for cross-examination.

I'm liking that whiskey that FunkyGloveFacewash suggested and might just pour me another shot.

I have to be up of course at 5 am so a man needs to know his limitations.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 3, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

tominfl1- LOL(Clint Eastwood). As far as the Wiser's, never heard of it but I'm sure it will be fine for an off night.

Posted by: FunkyGloveFacewash | November 3, 2009 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Where is Bellerophon and his winged horse, Pegasus when we need them? Sign him up.

Note: Bellerophon is the Greek hero who slayed the Chimera, a monstrous fire-breathing creature in Grek mythology.

(A certain player on Columbus was correctly named.)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

@tominfl1

Your posts are so funny and entertaining to read.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 9:09 PM | Report abuse

CapsFan75: Just as June Cleaver told Ward he was "being a little hard on the Beaver," I think you're being a little hard on the Blue Jackets.

First, their team has a really funny name and I'm sure that makes them insecure.

Second, every hockey team since Moses led the Sinai Snipers to the Promised Cup has targeted the other team's best player. I remember a John Wayne movie when the Indians were attacking and he told the troops to aim for the chief. "Just kill him and they'll retreat. They'll think it's bad medicine."

"Target" doesn't mean "hurt." It means, "throw off game."

Ken Hitchcock is a fine coach schooled in the Bruce Boudreau tradition. I've sen Ovie in a thousand scrums that looked worse than the other night; but, just as the crocodile hunter got killed by a freak encounter with a ray, Ovie got hurt on a freak scrum.

The Jackets are a fine team with good talent like the Islanders. They deserve our respect. Rick Nash is a great player. It just happened. The secret to life isn't what you do about what already is but what you do to fix the problem and move on.

Tomas Fleischmann...come on down.

And Ward said to June, "You didn't mind last night."

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 3, 2009 9:19 PM | Report abuse

@ CapsFan75: Highly unlikely the morons who jump on all of Semin's errors and fail to acknowledge that he's a great player in his own right will every shut their yaps.

I think Semin will step up and based on what we've seen, the others including Laich, BMo, Flash, and sorta' Knuble will bring their A-game too.

Let's GOO Caps!

P.S. Can we just get Sugden for that one game and just let him loose? Please? =)

Posted by: LeftCoastCapsFan | November 3, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

CapsFan75: I'm glad I can amuse you. Just remember after we die and are hopefully in the same place and when you see me floating along you can point and ask St. Peter to introduce us, and say, "I want to talk to him because he was entertaining."

Eternity is forever and I will need a few friends to pass the time.

In the meantime I will pour me another whiskey to pass the time until tomorrow night.

Devils Fan: "Well, I should get into Heaven because I rooted very hard for the Devils."
St. Peter: "You're kidding. I hope."

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 3, 2009 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Caps lose 2 in overtime after 6 straight wins netting 14 out of 16 possible points and are a legit 2nd in the east...def no chance to win a cup.

Posted by: trunkenmath | November 3, 2009 9:34 PM | Report abuse

chris osgood has got to be the most under-appreciated NHL player in the last 15 years

Posted by: joek443 | November 3, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

LeftCoastCapsFan/CapsFan75:
i agree with tominfl1. the cbj's were out to give ovi a clean hit every chance they got. however - like most of ovi's opponents - they got hit first.
i don't want to see the caps wait until they play cbj again and send someone out to just fight - i want them to start hitting everything on skates (maybe even the refs) that is not wearing a caps jersey. if they get into the habit of doing that now - by the time they play cbj again - they'll know the were in a battle.
it would be nice to think every caps opponent didn't look forward to playing them. i'd be happier to see 2-1, 3-2 and 4-2 wins than watch a highlight goal from an OT loss

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 9:43 PM | Report abuse

trunkenmath:
throw in a couple of OH NO's and call yourself chickenlittle and i'd lmao.
i'm not sure why they even bother lacing up their skates when they can't get 16 of 16 pts :)

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

@Capt_Kirk_in_AZ

I'm recommending that when the Caps play the Blue Jackets on April 3, they don't even suit up Ovi but suit up Sugden instead and he takes care of some people.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 9:57 PM | Report abuse

CapsFan75:
i understand the logic. i just think that cbj won't be intimidated by one guy that can fight. if the caps as a whole learn (or are just willing to) hit more - that would send just as good a message if not better. i just have a different view of what i think would be effective - not only for the next cbj game but games prior to and after that one.

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 10:04 PM | Report abuse

@tominfl1

Forgive me, I'm feeling more than a bit traumatized by Ovi's injury. I love Ovi as if he were my own kid. (I recall hearing you make a similar comment about Brooksie once.) All the rumors about Semin's contract negotiations not going well are not helping my mood.

On the name "Blue Jackets", why would someone name a team that anyway? That doesn't sound menacing at all. Blue Devils or even Blue Rays.

I hope we meet before eternity. In other words, I hope I meet you in Florida when I come down.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Capt Kirk:

Dude. I just sent your state $1365 for property tax on the empty lot I own in Lake Havasu City. It's a cool lot - you have a nice view of the Colorado from both front and back (that's the "river," not the "Avalanche.")

I hear things are kinda tough out there. Well, they're tough all over. Here's hoping to better days.

You know, it really feels like the bottom - right now, at this instance in time. Warren Buffet just put $34B into the Burlington Northern Santa Fe. That guy is even a better coach than Scotty Bowman. It's really, really funny that the RR's that propelled the country in the 1800s like James Hill I think with Great Northern will lead us back in the second decade of the 21st century.

You can never tell with these things. Cheers.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 3, 2009 10:08 PM | Report abuse

@tominfl1

I'm sure I'll forgive the Blue Jackets in time for the next game they play against a major rival of the Caps.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

tominfl1:
lake havasu is a nice place - if you're looking for new young fans
sorry - couldn't resist

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 10:14 PM | Report abuse

@LeftCoastCapsFan

Guess what game I'd like them to let Sugden loose in? The one against the Blue Jackets that will take place just before the playoffs.

And let's see some good games by Semin. I don't know why he's so hated not just by some posters here but even by some bloggers. Well, Sasha, I know exactly how you feel. I felt that way at work last year. (And I don't even have the excuse of being 25.)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 10:20 PM | Report abuse

CapsFan75: Yes, hopefully I will still be here and not moved by then (HR hasn't arranged anything, but who can tell with them). If I am here, I will do anything in power to meet up.

I am not worried about Ovie injury. Gordie Howe used to get hurt now and again. An injury to Ovie and even another in the future was and is inevitable.

Remember - the Lord moves in mysterious ways. Let's hope Flash, Semin and Brooksie step up and show the leadership we know they have. In fact, I don't hope it - I expect it.

I don't believe any rumors on Semin negotiations. I have put here all the numbers fair and reasonable for both Semin and Backie. Both want to stay. You can tell. Semin, especially, not comfortable with the language, wants to be with his friend. He could get Gaborik money elsewhere in two years ($7.5M/yr) but will accept Richards money ($6M) to be with Ovie. I would do it; you would do it; Sasha will do it. He is a person first and not a money grubber. Ovie, Backie, Sasha, Green and Brooksie will stay together many years and they will hoist the Cup more than once - three times.

It is written and so it shall be. I hope.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 3, 2009 10:25 PM | Report abuse

It's time to stand and fight!!! Did we quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor???

But I digress...

The best example of standing up for a teammate that I can remember is when Steve Konowalchuk took out Mike Peca after a cheap shot head-hunt by Peca. It was sweet. Kono could play, was a leader, and had a bit of a crazy look in his eyes. And a great straight right. That's what we need (along with the physical d-man).

Posted by: zmega | November 3, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Capt Kirk: Have you been there? Most of the residents are old. They want the revenue of the young people visiting, but they want the young people to behave according to their "code."

It's the same here in Daytona Beach.

So where are you going in retirement? Staying in Phoenix? Sedona is a beautiful place but weird and expensive. I like Prescott. Also like Tucson. Page is cool but remote. Tombstone I really like but not to live. I would take Tucson over any place but LHC, which has median access (I measured) to LV, Grand Canyon, PHX, SD, LA, SW UT and even Yosemite.

BTW, I prefer older "fans." They're much more appreciative for the admission price.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 3, 2009 10:40 PM | Report abuse

@Capsfan75:On the name "Blue Jackets", why would someone name a team that anyway? That doesn't sound menacing at all. Blue Devils or even Blue Rays.
----------------------------
I thought it was dumb too, so I looked it up. During the Civil War, the North was Blue. That's why. Ohio played a major role in the Civil War. "The third most populous state in the Union at the time, Ohio raised nearly 320,000 soldiers for the Union army, third behind only New York and Pennsylvania in total manpower contributed to the military."

I still can't stand most of the state, but my wife's from Ohio, so I have to cut them some slack. ;)

Posted by: member8 | November 3, 2009 10:51 PM | Report abuse

@ CapsFan75: I get giddy dreaming about Sugden laying someone flat on their a$$ and scoring a goal or two.

I'm waiting for the critics to come out after tomorrow's game and mock Semin for not scoring a bazillion goals and then faulting him for not carrying the team on his back.

Should we remind everyone that after Ovi, the target moves onto Semin's back? That he becomes the guy everyone and their mother goes after on the ice because of the scoring threat he poses? Never mind. I get the feeling I haven't included enough stats in my post and/or haven't finished washing Semin's jock strap to even post. *shrug* =P

Posted by: LeftCoastCapsFan | November 3, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Tony criticized Tarik for not finding out exactly what OV's injury is on his radio show today... not really harshly but in his usual half serious/humourous way, "Tarik, I love you but you gotta find out exactly what his injury is... he's the most important athlete in the city!!! just gotta work a little harder and investigate"

Kornheiser is not really a hockey guy so he doesn't know how secretly they usually guard these injuries but I for one wanna know what his injury is... the NFL makes the teams divulge all the injuries for gambling purpose but somehow their players survive despite the open policy.

Posted by: joek443 | November 3, 2009 10:57 PM | Report abuse

@irockthered

as an intensive care physican, i totally agree with your statement on perspective. unfortunately, i see it too often.

good luck to you and your friend during this difficult time.

whenever you feel like youd like to "battle" on any topics, goalies in particular, ill be here :)

again, good luck...

sincerely,
doc

Posted by: RAJSTAR | November 3, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

zmega: I remember one game Caps were 3 on 5 in Detroit w/Tinordi on the ice and he got in a fight and the Wings guy punched him in the mouth and knocked out a tooth I think and Tinner was there with blood pouring out of his mouth and woozy but waving on to "come and get him" to any and all Wings players.

Tinordi and Calle Johansson made for an absolutely perfect defensive pairing.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 3, 2009 11:02 PM | Report abuse

tominfl1:
as it stand right now - i'm liking it here - just east of phx (in mesa). if it ever gets to hot - i can head east or north and in less than an hour and a half can be at 5000 ft elevation and temps that are around 30 degrees cooler. i'm not overly fond of july/aug but sure do love oct to apr. we are just getting into the season where you need to dress for the morning/evening 'cold' weather (low 60's) - but still be able to handle upper 80's and low 90's. i don't expect any tears from anyone - but these are the unbearable conditions i must endure.
also - that is the second time you have used 'fans' and price in the same sentence - i'm beginning to think you're into lhc because of its vicinity to nevada :)

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 3, 2009 11:11 PM | Report abuse

I understand that LeCavalier is not seeing eye to eye with Tocchet at the moment.

Is the "Trade Semin" lobby now going to suggest trading him to LeCavalier?

I've noticed that any time there is a discontented star who wants to be traded (e.g. Heatley), a star on the trading block (e.g. Pronger) or an impending free agent (Bouwmeester), our fans typically suggest trading Semin to get them.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 11:30 PM | Report abuse

GMGM's comments about the success of Detroit winning recently without an enforcer went out the window when,after they were pushed around by the Blues in those back-to-back games in Sweden,signed tough-guy Brad May before their next game! Wake up GMGM...go get Chris Neil,he's available after an in-house fight with Speeza.BTW,I've watched the replay on the scrum.and it looked to me that someone on the bench butt-ended OV in the shoulder under the pad,causing the problem. If so,the league needs to investigate...

Posted by: roccky | November 3, 2009 11:36 PM | Report abuse

@LeftCoastCapsFan

It's not like the target hasn't already been on Semin's back even before Ovi's injury. Witness: David Backes on Dec 18,2008. And the NY Isles this past Friday.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 11:40 PM | Report abuse

Someone posted on Japers' today that they noticed that all the guys were drinking from Gatorade bottles on Sunday, with three exceptions, who were drinking from cups. (In other words, no sharing.) The exceptions were: Semin, Laing, and Backstrom who were known to be sick (or recovering from being sick).


Posted by: CapsFan75 | November 3, 2009 11:43 PM | Report abuse

@RAJSTAR and everyone else who's said something about my post a couple of threads ago... Thanks.

I may be offline for a day or more, depending on what happens tomorrow. I'll let y'all know.

Posted by: irockthered | November 4, 2009 12:55 AM | Report abuse

Props to Sid tonight. He made a pretty smart hockey play in the crease tonight to save a goal.

Kind of reminds me of OV's glove save (even though we lost that game).

Posted by: Raber | November 4, 2009 3:06 AM | Report abuse

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