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Caps' Gordon, Beagle accept qualifying offers

The Caps just announced that forwards Andrew Gordon and Jay Beagle have accepted their qualifying offers. Gordon's deal is for one year and Beagle signed a two-year contract. Center Andrew Joudrey and defensemen Patrick McNeill and Zach Miskovic also accepted their qualifying offers, the team said.

Chris Bourque did not sign his qualifying offer and has informed the team he will play in the KHL next season. (The Caps still retain his rights, though.)

By Lindsay Applebaum  |  July 15, 2010; 6:09 PM ET
 
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Next: Q&A with Brooks Laich

Comments

... and the cup inches nearer!!

p.s.
Hello Lindsay!!

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | July 15, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

I really thopught Bourque had a chance to make the team this fall. That might give Andrew Gordon a chance to step in. I can see Andrew having a good camp and forcing Boyd out.

Posted by: thomas20 | July 15, 2010 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Au Revoir, Chris.

Good luck in Russia.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | July 15, 2010 7:18 PM | Report abuse

I wish CBo all the best in Russia and I am happy these other guys signed.

I hope A. Gordo makes the team at least replacing Lainger as the standard scratch. I could also see Beags in that role.

McNeill will be one of if the the top Dman in Hershey this year and Miskovic looked good in what I saw of him during the Calder finals. Sucks that he got hurt yesterday but hopefully it is nothing too serious.

And I have really liked Joudrey's hustle and defensive play but I am guessing he won't get anywhere close to the Caps.

Posted by: pkendrick | July 15, 2010 7:57 PM | Report abuse

Actually I could be wrong. I forgot that Joudrey was actually just on a Hershey contract last year but the Caps saw enough of him to sign him to a 2-way deal. Maybe they are thinking he could be called up. But who knows for sure other then GMGM.

Posted by: pkendrick | July 15, 2010 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Mikko Koivu signed a 7 year $47.25M contract. That is $6.75M/yr

He is a very good player, but this is making Backstrom's contract look like a bargain. Especially considering that 7 years from now Koivu will be 34 and Backstrom will only be 29.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 15, 2010 8:19 PM | Report abuse

So does that mean that Miskovic was unsigned yesterday and would have been screwed financially if he had been seriously injured in the collision with Finley? Or maybe he signed before camp and the Caps just announced it. It would be risky to go into a highly competitive training camp and not have contract protection. But I guess these guys don't have a lot of leverage in dealing with a NHL team.

Posted by: zmega | July 15, 2010 9:20 PM | Report abuse

The NHL Network is to be praised here in the hockey-less doldrums of midsummer. In case anyone has missed it, beginning last week, they're airing, in chronological order, 35 years of Stanley Cup clinching games. I'm watching the Isles/Oilers final from '83 right now, the Isles 4th and final Cup winning team, so amazing to see those two dynastic teams doing battle at their primes. Tomorrow will be the Isles being knocked off by the surging Gretzky, Messier, and the rest of the Oil for the first win of five Cup wins.

The games air at 8pm EDT every week night, and are replayed at 1am EDT. Next week should be Oilers/Flyers ('85), Habs/Flames ('86), Oilers/Flyers ('87), Oilers/Bruins ('88), and Flames/Habs ('89).

Do yourselves a favor and check out these games. Cheers!

Posted by: YouAreABigWhiner | July 15, 2010 9:24 PM | Report abuse

thanks for the update UAABW.
Cold War cronies should watch those games & be reminded how beautiful the sport is.
Not the scratch & claw hockey some are calling for the Caps to play.

Posted by: Rocc00 | July 15, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

If memory serves me well, I read somewhere that Andrew Gordon is a Right Winger who likes crashing the net. I guess he would be Knuble's replacement one year from now. Till then, I can see him landing the one open roster spot we have right now, assuming both Perrault and Johannson make the team. However, I think we are going to at least re-sign Belanger, which would mean both A. Gordon and Beagle will be staying in Hershey for one more year.

Posted by: mcgratsp | July 15, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

No, I think it rather that Fehr would be Knuble's replacement and then Bouchard might hopefully (but doubtful) be next up at #2RW and AGordo would be then #3RW.

This isn't to say AGordo can't be Knuble in time, as Knuble at 25 was a 4th line winger on the Wings team that beat the caps in 98.

Bouchard, though, hasn't shown enough, has he? He's like Perreault in that it's second line or bust (unless they change their game) and neither of them have shown they have the tenacity to be #2 line players on a Cup winner.

I mean, anyone can PLAY 2nd line in the NHL, but to do it on a team that can win the Cup, you need to have a skill set that is superior at SOME facets of the game.

Both FB and MP were great in the Q, but that was yesterday.

As for Mikko Koivu:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikko_Koivu

The Wild have just screwed up the salary structure for every team in the NHL. Maybe they know in advance the cap will rise 20% next year.

BTW, you can't compare him to Backie or Kopitar because they were RFAs and he was a UFA. Still, is Koivu worth a 35% premium over Plekanec?

cstanton, you are pretty good at these things, even though you are weak on numbers. OK, take a guy we agree is really worth $1.8M on a UFA deal - Matt Cooke.

Is Koivu worth Plekanec and Cooke? I would think not.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 12:31 AM | Report abuse

@tominsocal1

With the Koivu deal, things are going to be very interesting from a salary standpoint over the next few years.

There are still guys being signed for lots of money, including Koivu. With all the long term deals going on, there will be less room in the salary structure of teams for future free agents. So what will happen?

The Flyers are currently over the Cap limit and are looking to deal Gagne, who's a very good player at the prime of life == 30 years old, and making 5.26 Mill. Not every team can afford him, of course.

There will be more players in that situation in the next few years. So will we have a few more join the KHL? Not a mass exodus, mind you, but a little bit higher percentage than it is now.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | July 16, 2010 12:49 AM | Report abuse

OK, here's the math, some of us analyzed before the FA period, and I recall the consensus on Plekanec was $5M/yr, even though some talk was he might get more. I mean, one nice season.

Then we had Lombardi, and they were bantering about $4M+ and I came on here the morning he signed and put down (you can go back and look it up) $3.5M ea for three years as the most I'd give him, and by God he got $10.5M over three years. Doesn't make me precient, just means I did the math.

OK, now, take Koivu, I realize he has intangibles, but so do Plekanec and Lombardi, and Lombardi is only one good year, Koivu being maybe three, I can see a 50% premium on Lombardi, even though pts are only 30% premium, and I can see a 10-15% premium on Plekanec, same pts last year and same style to play all situations but Mikko has a better track record over more years.

I can see Koivu at $5.5M, maybe a few pennies over that, but that's it. I mean, HSedin did 6.1, and as Senator Bentson would have said, I've seen Henrik Sedin, Mister Koivu, and you're surely no Henrik Sedin.

OK, Cammalleri, he's a winger, I know, but he's 6.0. Semin got 6.0 with an almost UFA deal.

Would anyone out there take MKoivu over either Cammalleri or Semin?

All right, I might take Koivu over Semin if I knew Koivu were signed

I'm only expecting it to skate a few shifts. The I'll fall asleep.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 1:06 AM | Report abuse

sign 4 but no room for #53 too bad hope he gets a shot in someone else's system...guess the Caps just gave up on him

Posted by: wendel2 | July 16, 2010 1:15 AM | Report abuse

CF75: It depends what happens with the cap. Look how the Ravens just signed Marc Bulger back-up QB at like $3.8M. WTH? It's an uncapped season, so they can toss money like a drunken sailor on shore leave on the opposite side of the world from where his wife lives.

(In an unrelated story, I am returning to Orlando for an 11-day stay in a few weeks and am going by myself. As I said, this is purely unrelated and I assure you I won't be tossing money toward wanton women...not much of it, anyway.)

Back to whatever, the mass exodus or not depends on the new TV deal (due next year I think) and what they negotiate in the new CBA that will be signed, mark the words of nostrathomas, one minute before midnight Sept 30, 2012.

But, no matter how you slice it, the Wild were running scared and overpaid for Koivu. Did he really have other suitors? Looking further, Kovalchuk seems hellbent on making a deal work out with the Kings. It's almost like when Andre Dawson told the Cubs, I'll play for you for no matter what you put on this blank, signed contract, except Kovy wants to have his cake and eat it although God knows I've never known what that expression really means. BUT, Kovy wants LA like Lindsay Lohan wants a private jail cell

"But, like, that was my bar of soap, and, like, why did you take it, and, like, what did you mean by telling me to share it?"

but it seems, from reports, that LA is holding out in the upper 5's or maybe lower 6's (last I knew).

OK, so how does Koivu w/o all the fanfare get this mega deal when even Consumer Reports says Kovy is clearly worth way molre than Koivu even if you toss in a dozen bars of Lindsay's used soap?

Inquiring minds want to know.

And, if there ARE any wanton women out there, in the greater Orlando area, you can reach me at tom_on_uncapped_vacation@drunken_sailors_as_fans.com.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 1:29 AM | Report abuse

What's up with Afniogenov, Semin's evil twin - noone wanted him last year so he ends up thrashed, but puts up 24 goals..and 3/4 point per game on a turd of a team. Surely someone can use 20-30 goals for a mil and change. He is a pure RW, and we don't have many of those.

From what I know of him, he is the proto-type Russian...no back or fore check, indisciplined and would drive BB to lose whatever body hair he has left. Right?

Posted by: Political_Stratgst | July 16, 2010 2:23 AM | Report abuse

What's up with Afniogenov, Semin's evil twin - noone wanted him last year so he ends up thrashed, but puts up 24 goals..and 3/4 point per game on a turd of a team. Surely someone can use 20-30 goals for a mil and change. He is a pure RW, and we don't have many of those.

From what I know of him, he is the proto-type Russian...no back or fore check, indisciplined and would drive BB to lose whatever body hair he has left. Right?

Posted by: Political_Stratgst | July 16, 2010 2:23 AM | Report abuse

I think a lot of the remaining guys will fall after Kovy finally does something. If NJ gets him he is going to have to trade someone so some teams are keeping their cap space open just in case (also same thing with Sharp and the Hawks if they resign Neimi). Since there seems to be no rush with the guys left teams can try and make some trades and fall back on these guys if things don't work out.

Posted by: icehammer97 | July 16, 2010 3:10 AM | Report abuse

Tominsocal1, you never fail to amuse and entertain me, especially when I'm suffering from lack of hockey-itis. Thanks.

And, YouAreABigWhiner, you probably have saved my life with the reference to the NHL network SC game clinching replays.

Posted by: dccitizen1 | July 16, 2010 7:51 AM | Report abuse

Washington Capitals - 2011 Stanley Cup Champions

Posted by: LloydChristmas | July 16, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

From previous thread:

@cstanton:
"So why is it the Caps never or rarely ever mention that they like a player because of his physicality? He makes the "right" plays. WT H does that mean Bruce?"
Making the right plays means the player is clearing the puck off the glass when he has to, and is finding the right guy and making the quick up pass when it's there to clear the d zone. It means being postionally sound and having good gap control and stepping up at appropriate times in the neutral zone. The reason BB etc. mentions these things is because they are the most important things and the things coaches look for at development and tryout camps. Being physical is a nice plus, but it is secondary.

"is it just me or is there something wrong w/BB trying to stop Kuznetsov from taunting a goalie?"
It is wrong to do inappropriate things on a team or in a league. This young man needs to be pulled aside and told the things that do and don't fly on his team and in his league. Word gets around and you don't want a bad rep. right from the get-go.

@youaresquishy
You my friend have the right idea. As you suggest players should strive to fit in on their teams and in their league. Focus more on playing hard and to win than a bunch of antics.

Posted by: BetterOffWithFedorov | July 16, 2010 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Koivu's contract is rediculous. No way is he worth almost 7 mil per season.

These types of contracts are the types that askew future contracts.

Posted by: FrankM73 | July 16, 2010 9:12 AM | Report abuse

cstanton, you are pretty good at these things, even though you are weak on numbers. OK, take a guy we agree is really worth $1.8M on a UFA deal - Matt Cooke.

Is Koivu worth Plekanec and Cooke? I would think not.
-----------

weak doesn't begin to describe it. I am fairly ignorant on numbers and goalies. Frankly I didn't even know much about Plekanec's style of play till these here playoffs so based on what I saw I'd say probably not. I keep waiting for Cooke's body to break down at some point the way he plays given his size. I don't know how he keeps ticking.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

"Being physical is a nice plus, but it is secondary."

to an extent that may be true, but only to an extent. Physicality is the primary attribute for many players in this league if we can assume for a moment they need to have a certain acceptable degree of other obvious qualities required of a pro hockey player.

"It is wrong to do inappropriate things on a team or in a league. "

and who gets to decide this? Bruce? Because there may be plenty of other coaches and GMs in this league who may not have a problem with one of their players taunting a goalie. In fact, they probably go looking for those qualities in some players.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

I see AG more as a Kunitz type of player than a Knuble type for the simple reason that AG is a much better forechecker than is Knuble. Knuble's a responsible player who is hard to move out of the crease. But he's not the first one in on a forecheck to harass a dman into making a quick pass or a turnover. AGordon does exactly that. And he's not built like Knuble.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Not the scratch & claw hockey some are calling for the Caps to play.

Posted by: Rocc00 | July 15, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Rocco should stop watching nhl hockey then. Because you've been sleeping under rocks if you think the nhl isn't scratch n claw hockey.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

whoever posted this up, thx!
Finley-Pisano scrap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgK2d95GNtg&feature=related

Here's another one of Chicago's top draft picks displaying his toughness, unfortunately the Euro gets hurt in this one and is out 4 months. Judging from his reaction it looks like Beach felt that Olimb speared him but it looks like Olimb reacted to getting pushed around and tried to spear him but missed. Either that or the spear occurred sometime before the video picks up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCg04RlbRhs&feature=player_embedded#!

Here's what the Hawks GM said about the incident and the fact that Beach has now engaged in 3 or 4 fights in camp. Perfectly said btw. Their philosophy in Chi certainly contributed to them winning the Cup.

"I don't look at it as a maturity level, I think that's part of his game," Bowman said."That's actually what sets him apart from a lot of guys. He scored 52 goals last year, which was a great year. A guy that can do that as well as be tough to play against, you don't want him to lose that edge.

"That's a part of his game that's made him what he is so we don't want to discourage it. You have to do it at the right time, which I guess is something you can talk to him about. He's certainly proven himself to be a multi-faceted player and we're going to need that down the road."

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

First off, I don't see Fehr replacing Knuble, unless he finally realizes that he can be successful in the NHL by playing a dirtier role.

When you hear Brads talk about his role, he will be the first to tell you he evolved in the scrapper to keep his place in the bigs. In juniors and below he was the skilled guy. But as he was surrounded by better skilled guy, he evolved his game into a role player. Fehr was a skilled guy in the other leagues, but he hasn't yet figured out that he needs to be a role player in the NHL. Get in the goalies face and whack at the puck. If anything, you see Laich trying to fill that role. I think Fehr could be great at it.. if he would put his purse away and man up. That's just my 2 cents on that.

As for Koivu, he's massively underrated. He's extremely talented offensively, drives their team almost single handedly, and a terrific 2-way player. Only handing out 7M contracts for pure offensive players is stupid if you ask me. Mikko deserves it, and is a wonderful #1 center. If he and Backs were to swap teams, I'm pretty sure Backs would be popping 70 pts, and MK would be around 100. That and MK is clearly their team leader.

If you don't believe 30 points can be the difference in environment, system, and linemates, I can cite many examples.

That said, Backie is younger, and him and OV look like they have fun, which makes it more fun for me as a fan. Wouldn't trade him... but don't underestimate the importance of MK to the Wild.

Posted by: fricknoutstandin | July 16, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Former Silvertip, Kyle Beach, is a player that Tips fans either love or hate, with his on-ice attitude and frequent scrums and fights. So it shouldn’t surprise anyone that on Day One of the Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhaws developmental prospects training camp, Beach already had an on-ice fight with a potential teammate. NHL.com correspondent Brain Hedger reported that 6-2, 200-pound free agent John Kurtz hopped onto the ice in the second scrimmage and invited the 6-3, 210-pound Beach to tango. Beach accepted, the gloves came off and both combatants got some good shots in against each other.

What’s interesting is that Kurtz is Beach’s roommate for the camp. Did these guys plan this to show off?

“It was just a situation where he asked me,” said Beach, the Hawks’ top pick (No. 10) in the 2008 NHL Entry Draft. “Guys are going to try and make a name for themselves. They all want to do it, and I’ll give ‘em the opportunity.”

“If I’m going to make this team this year, I’m going to have to (fight),” he said. “I wasn’t looking to fight (today). He came on and asked me, and I’m not going to turn it down. That’s what I’m going to have to do. I’m going to have to be able to fight everybody.”

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

First off, I don't see Fehr replacing Knuble, unless he finally realizes that he can be successful in the NHL by playing a dirtier role.

When you hear Brads talk about his role, he will be the first to tell you he evolved in the scrapper to keep his place in the bigs. In juniors and below he was the skilled guy. But as he was surrounded by better skilled guy, he evolved his game into a role player. Fehr was a skilled guy in the other leagues, but he hasn't yet figured out that he needs to be a role player in the NHL. Get in the goalies face and whack at the puck. If anything, you see Laich trying to fill that role. I think Fehr could be great at it.. if he would put his purse away and man up. That's just my 2 cents on that.
---------------------------

to me Fehr always played with at least a little edge even as a prospect. So I was never worried about him bringing that over to the nhl game (unlike a Schultz who was always a project player in that regard). The only concern to me was whether Fehr would be able to overcome his injuries (hip, shoulder etc). When I watched him as a rookie in Hershey he got involved more than a few times in scrums and didn't shy away from contact. He's not a Ryane Clowe type of player but he's no shrinking Flash either. And I think this past season in the playoffs you saw a little bit of Fehr's fire. What would help his development would be if the Caps as a whole upgraded their team toughness and brought on a strong veteran physical presence who makes the young guys feel more confident in playing that style. You don't want Fehr to be an easy mark out there for other teams if he starts to play fiesty and then he gets clobbered and starts losing confidence in that style of game. You want him to be able to match up to similar players if possible so he's not getting run at by guys much stronger than he is.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doACJhMQXrM&feature=related

caleb herbert got the goal here but it was wade macleod who made it all happen with the hit on the dman Sam Carrier to free up the puck, then he gathers it up and makes the nice assist. Boudreau needs to work with his team on just that type of play on the forecheck where he runs drills getting his forwards in deep to make the hit on the dman and force that puck loose. Do it over and over until you get it right. The Caps don't seem to generate many goals that way. And when you hit the playoffs you need to manufacture some goals if there's not a lot of room out there to set up the play. Sometimes you have to dump n chase depending on the game circumstances.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=929jS8yfQ0c&feature=related

Sean Wiles looks like a BIG kid out there. Here he anticipates the clearing pass, steals the puck and then crashes the crease area for the goal.

thx to all the uploaders!

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

and for all the MaJo fans out there - look at the pathetic way he defends this goal. That's #90 standing around allowing his man to set up the play and wait for the winger to show up in the frame. Marcus has no clue how to play in his own end at least based on this one play. He just waits instead of moving his feet to put pressure on the puck carrier along the boards.
Garrett Mitchell did his job and took his guy down but it just shows how one lazy/passive hockey player can screw the pooch for everyone. All Marcus had to do was just attack the puck carrier but he shows no willingness to do this. I don't even want this guy within sniffing distance of the NHL until he figures out to make a basic hockey play. And the fact that Bruce only mentions how he wants MaJo to be more offensively aggressive doesn't bode well either. He should've brought this play to break down how this goal occurred. The forward defending the goal scorer gave him too much room also but the goal occurred because MaJo's instincts and reaction is terrible.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qChuBqX7FPc&feature=related

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Chris Bourque is a lifetime AHLer, so go make money in Russia, dude. You are a nice guy but not NHL material.

i like Fehr, but not even close to Knuble.

Posted by: doughless | July 16, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

@tominsocal, @frankM73

Agreed - too much for Koivu. But I'd rate him much higher than Lombardi, Plekanic, et al. He's a premium player, I think, definitely can be mentioned in the same breath with Backstrom but then not worth more than Backs, either. Backstrom took a bit less to play here with a great team, the Wild could not offer that to Mikko.

Posted by: RedLitYogi | July 16, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

MaJo play was terrible.

Posted by: doughless | July 16, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

"Consumer Reports says Kovy is clearly worth way molre than Koivu even if you toss in a dozen bars of Lindsay's used soap?"

dats nasty

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 16, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Cstanton - safe to say this is the only play you've ever seen of MaJo? So you're gonna state that you don't even want him within a "sniff" of the NHL based on 1 play? 1 video? I'm sure you've never seen anybody else in the NHL do this either huh? C'mon man it's 1 play.

I don't think anybody is stating he's coming in here ready to go with no weaknesses. I for one think he's being pressured into making the club due to the club's deficiency at 2C. Regardless everybody knows he's got stuff to work on same as players already on the team.

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | July 16, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

cstanton: Good video there on MaJo's poor play. Also, good point above on Fehr. I think it would help the club immensely to have a gritty, vet center for Fehr and Semin and it's why I favor trading Flash to free up the money and open the slot for Fehr on the 2nd line.

But, indirectly, with that video, you show why plus/minus must be considered as a useful stat. And, with that, you indirectly perhaps give credit to a guy like Schultz who MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT if he led the league in that category.

At least, I mean, for Sarge's shortcomings, he does cover his man (except when he falls on his rear). And, due to circumstances, he sometimes covers Green's man too.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

i like Fehr, but not even close to Knuble.
-------------

at this point in Fehr's career, he's a different type of player than Knuble was at the same age. Knuble's role was that of a big body energy line guy who was defensively responsible. He has now evolved into a different role. Fehr in time could definitely do what Knuble does.

That's why I've never been real vocal about the Fehr/Getzlaf debate even though I'm a big fan of RG and I was hoping we'd pick him in that draft year because I was hoping to see the Caps get big down the middle. And I thought hell with Sutherby and Getzlaf that gives us two big bodies down the middle. But the Caps maybe thought that could be overkill so they went with a winger instead. I was hoping for either Getzlaf or Mark Stuart at the time but after watching Fehr I didn't think we totally screwed the pooch on that pick. I've been a pseudo-Fehr fan for a while.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

@pokerfacel208

In addition, it is one play in a summer league. For some people there can be too much information as it gives them a reason to overreact to anything and everything.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 16, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse

doughless: When Knuble was Fehr's age, Knuble wasn't even Fehr, much less himself.

Nostrathomas says, Eric Fehr will be a better goal scorer over his career than Knuble, and he'll do it at a younger age.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Cstanton - safe to say this is the only play you've ever seen of MaJo? So you're gonna state that you don't even want him within a "sniff" of the NHL based on 1 play? 1 video? I'm sure you've never seen anybody else in the NHL do this either huh? C'mon man it's 1 play.
----------------

i've seen vid of him before but not in that type of situation. And I'm not trashing him as a prospect. I'm trashing his development to this point because that's a basic hockey play that I expect any player to make. You close the gap dammit! And that one play gives me a fairly good idea as to his playing style. Semin plays that way too, he refuses to close the gap preferring instead to keep a bit of distance and use a low% play like a stick check to knock the puck away. I can see MaJo make the same mistake over and over again.

What I would've liked to hear BB say was "don't ask me about his offense, I'm more concerned with how he plays in the defensive zone"

I doubt BB even noticed this play.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Re: Koivu and other significant recent contracts...

In reading a lot of stories about possible future labor unrest in the NHL, and the negotiation of a future CBA, it becomes clear that some type of luxury tax system will likely be instituted as part of whatever settlement is agreed upon. Donald Fehr (of MLB Players' Association fame) is now actively involved with the NHLPA. Though he hasn't accepted the executive director job as of yet, he is on the advisory committee searching for the person to fill that role and is taking active part in the PA's meetings. His legacy is seen in the luxury tax system in the MLB which sees the top spending teams paying "fines" for going over the annually refigured upper team salary limit (there is no hard cap in MLB).

NHL owners would likely be in favor of such a system as it would allow teams to go over the cap to hand out large contracts to either keep their own home grown talent, or delve into the free agent frenzy. In addition, it would help to keep the lower revenue teams above water (through improved revenue sharing) as the salary cap/salary floor continues its upward climb (the increase has been somewhat skewed as the Canadian dollar has been at/near parity with the US dollar the past few years, which may/may not continue to be the case. All NHL salaries are paid in US dollars).


Stat of the day (part I): the upper limit of the salary cap for the first season after the lock-out (2005-06) was $39 million. The cap floor (which teams must spend to) for the upcoming 2010-11 season is $43.4 million. No wonder the lower revenue teams are not very happy.

Stat of the day (part II): A salary cap existed in the early days of the NHL. During the Great Depression, the league was under financial pressure to lower its salary cap to $62,500 per team, and $7,000 per player, forcing some teams to trade away well paid star players in order to fit the cap.

The more that things change, the more they stay the same.

Posted by: YouAreABigWhiner | July 16, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

sgm: Now you're being mean.

I agree with cstanton on this one. How can we expect a guy to be a #2C on a Cup contender when he's being outplayed in a development camp game?

OK, he'll improve, but let him improve at Hershey before we toss him into the fire. When he's absolutely ready for NHL action, it will be apparent since he has the talent and just needs the experience.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

"I'm sure you've never seen anybody else in the NHL do this either huh? C'mon man it's 1 play"

I realize its one play. But that's not to say that he hasn't made a hundred similar plays like that in the past. I bet he has. I think that one play is indicative of his overall playing style. And getting a full yr in the minors would help him learn the NA game better. I agree that he's being fasttracked because of our deficiencies at 2line center. The reason I was hard on him was because that kind of play is a basic play that every junior and minor league player knows how to make and its instinctive. You don't dawdle away from the puck. It accomplishes nothing. The simple play is to close the gap on the guy and force him to either dish off the puck sooner than he wants to or you pin him against the boards and work that puck loose. I doubt MaJo knows how to play along the boards. He looks like he wants nothing to do with it.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

@pokerfacel208

In addition, it is one play in a summer league. For some people there can be too much information as it gives them a reason to overreact to anything and everything.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 16, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse

typical sgm. Go bury your head in the sand sgm. That's what you do best.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

@tominsocal1

LeBron James's was dunked on in a summer league game last year. Was that meaningful at all?

For the love of god, let's not overreact to one play, much less one summer league play. It's called practice, calm down.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 16, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

I agree with cstanton on this one. How can we expect a guy to be a #2C on a Cup contender when he's being outplayed in a development camp game?
---------------------------

its obvious ain't it! MaJo is a highly skilled top (euro) draft pick that the Caps brass speaks highly of. That's sgm logic anyway. What he does away from the puck is of no concern. What he does defensively is of no concern. Must...have...points....

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

It's called practice, calm down.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 16, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

way to lower the bar. You sure you're not GM?

This is an opportunity for young players to show their chops and work ethic. This isn't a stretching exercise.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Is Kovalchuk ever gonna sign? Come on already, let's go.

I think after this camp, McPhee knows he needs a center.

Posted by: underpants2 | July 16, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

I think after this camp, McPhee knows he needs a center.

Posted by: underpants2 | July 16, 2010 11:53 AM

Enlightening

Posted by: Fro_ | July 16, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

I hope the coaches are spittin CSTANTON FIRE on the bench!!!

WE NEED TASKMASTERS!!!!!!

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 16, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

and it isn't "practice". Its a SCRIMMAGE. Show me other video where he is in a similar situation and approaches it differently and I'll be more than willing to write off that one play as an aberration. But to me, that one play is potentially an indicator that he will approach that same play in the same manner.

and even if this was just practice, what do you think practice is anyway? Its to work on aspects of your game and establish a style that you can carry over into games. Its not to stand around and watch the play develop. Not with the expectations you have as a highly touted draft pick. Look at Kyle Beach, already got into 3-4 fights in camp. He doesn't even have to do that being a top draft pick who scored 52 goals last yr. He does it because his nature is to compete as hard as he can even in camp.

get a clue.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

How can we expect a guy to be a #2C on a Cup contender when he's being outplayed in a development camp game?

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 11:43 AM

In another thread a day or two ago, someone proposed that the team's public support of MaJo for 2nd line center this year may have more to do with the Capitals attempting to create negotiating leverage with Flash (or another unknown player) rather than a total endorsement of MaJo's ability to immediately fill that 2C role. Players seeking new deals (and their agents) are reading the same stories in the paper and online as we all are, so maybe it's but a wee bit of posturing on the part of Caps management.

Posted by: YouAreABigWhiner | July 16, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

@cstanton:
everyone lapses for 1 play, especially when they are learning a new system. He's hesitant and that's understandable.

but having said that, I'll still stick with my position that MP will be #2C and MJO will either be convinced to play in Hershey or go home for the year.

he ain't no Backstrom and he had 69 points playing with Ovie as a rookie.

do people really think he'll put up 55+ points playing with Semin and Laich/Fehr?

not I! MJ will make the team next year not this one... MP is way ahead of him...

Posted by: FrankM73 | July 16, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

i dunno, after the postseason collapse this year as a coach I would not put up with anything less than max effort and I'd call out any player regardless of draft position. The bar needs to be set higher otherwise its just lip svc. As a coach you want to establish that hardhat mentality and let everyone know what the expectation is. My hope is that someone at some level pointed out to MaJo what his culpability was on that play and that it should never happen again. In a scrimmage or a real game.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

sgm: I understand your point, one play and all, but it at least raises eyebrows. MaJo's non-aggressive play led directly to a goal against.

This is about equivalent in an NFL scrimmage if the #1 pick cornerback got burned real bad on a long touchdown pass. Geez, if he can't do it there, how's he gonna do it when it counts?

In the case of MaJo, I already posted serious doubts, and stuff like this (and the earlier comment that his offensive zone play wasn't up to snuff) just makes me lean further on that side of the fence.

Bottom line: There's no one in the Caps organization currently who can play #2C (or #3, really) on a team that hopes to win four best-of-sevens. Maybe MaJo will be there in April, but I would rate it as "highly unlikely." Not just me, there was a link yesterday from a Swedish writer. I can maybe stretch MP to #3, but only if he changes his game ala Bradley example above.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

You guys are so over the top it's funny. I think we should just cut him now and save the money. I was gonna say trade him but every other GM out there has sure seen this video as well and want nothing to do with him. What a candy @ss! Why'd we even draft this bum!

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | July 16, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

"He's hesitant and that's understandable."

and i don't think that hesitancy will be fixed in a matter of weeks or a couple of months. We're in agreement here.
The AHL is a great place to learn the game. You have some great competition in that league because you have so many players on the fringe of making the NHL. In many ways the "fundamentals" are much better at the AHL level than the NHL level.


"Players seeking new deals (and their agents) are reading the same stories in the paper and online as we all are, so maybe it's but a wee bit of posturing on the part of Caps management."

I gave up giving this mgmt the benefit of the doubt a long time ago. But I hope you're right. And btw, again thx to anyone who posts vid from camp or posts their observations from actually being there. Much appreciated. You can glean a lot of info from just a few seconds of video.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

What sort of sandwich did MaJo have for lunch today? Was it turkey or roast beef? Did it have mayo? How much mayo? What kind of mayo? What sort of bread was it served on? Did he eat the sandwich with his left hand or right hand? Did he have any fries? What sort of fries? Any cole slaw?

Posted by: sgm3 | July 16, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

You guys are so over the top it's funny. I think we should just cut him now and save the money. I was gonna say trade him but every other GM out there has sure seen this video as well and want nothing to do with him. What a candy @ss! Why'd we even draft this bum!
--------------------

we should come up with a name for this. When someone massively exaggerates the opposing viewpoint to give themselves more credibility.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

What sort of sandwich did MaJo have for lunch today?
----------------------

I'm guessing it wasn't a manwich.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Some of you guys are badly underestimating Koivu. He is a terrific hockey player, one of the most complete, best all-around players in the game. Obviously not quite the gaudy numbers of a Malkin, Crosby or Backstrom [at least partially due to the offense-starved system he plays in], but don't always tell the whole story. And he's more physical and better defensively than any of them [maybe except Malkin when he's on his game], and at least as responsible as Datsyuk and Zetterberg in his own end.

Koivu is literally on the ice in every important situation in close games. Mentioning Lomardi in the same breath is embarrassing, and a joke. Even Plekanec, whom I like a lot - Koivu's bigger, and much more powerful and stronger on his skates. Maybe he's not quite the playmaker his brother Saku is, but he's damn good.

He's a lot like Toews, just without Hossa or Kane usually riding shotgun. Jacques LeMaire - no stranger to winning Stanley Cups himself, both as coach and player - raved about Koivu and always said he's the kind of player you win championships with.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | July 16, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I'm guessing it wasn't a manwich.


wow...this routine is getting old.

Posted by: 3434 | July 16, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

You guys are so over the top it's funny. I think we should just cut him now and save the money. I was gonna say trade him but every other GM out there has sure seen this video as well and want nothing to do with him. What a candy @ss! Why'd we even draft this bum!

Posted by: pokerfaceI208

I think the point is he ready to be the second center on a team that is expected to compete for, and win, a Stanley Cup?

Why are we even arguing this? Of course he is not. Use some of the cap space and assets and get a center. My hope is, maybe once Kovalchuk signs, you will see moves from almost all teams.

Posted by: underpants2 | July 16, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

What sort of sandwich did MaJo have for lunch today?
----------------------

I'm guessing it wasn't a manwich.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 12:12 PM

classic, bravo

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 16, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

I think the point is he ready to be the second center on a team that is expected to compete for, and win, a Stanley Cup?

Why are we even arguing this? Of course he is not.
Posted by: underpants2 | July 16, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

omg we should just trade him then! gaaaarrghh!! what a bum! why'd we even draft him! gaaarghhah!

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

finally someones mentions kyle beech...that kid is awesome. He is like avery/cooke/carcillo but can probably also score 30 goals in the nhl

Posted by: _stevo | July 16, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

you never know about kids like Beach. Big power forward types are bust or boom. But you'd think at least he could play on a 3rd line if necessary just as an energy bruiser type if he doesn't show a scoring touch. I like the fact he comes in as a top pick and plays like he's a fringe player fighting to make the team. With a kid like JVR you saw right away he skated well enough to play at this level and he was smooth with the puck. I haven't seen enough of Beach to say that yet.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 12:24 PM | Report abuse

No U2 that's not the point. The point is you can't tell hardly anyting out of 1 video from 1 play on 1 player! PERIOD. And it's just fitting that Cstanton picked a "negative" video to show everybody.

How bout this, I'll go find a video of him making a sweet pass and I'll state how he's gonna get 100 helpers this yr and he's the next coming of A Oates. Or I'll find a video of him with a wicked wrister to the top corner and state he's gonna score 73 this yr and is the next coming of T Selanne.

I'm sure OV never made a bad play during development camp or Backs or anybody else.

The funnier thing about this is that I see Poti doing this all the time and how long has he been in the NHL? I've jumped up screeming I don't know how many times at him doing the exact same thing yet he continues to play. And don't go blow this out of proportion. I didn't say Poti is N Lidstrom or anything like that.

Lastly, every single time a young very talented guy comes up and is potentially going to make the club what is ALWAYS said about him? He needs to work on his development in his own zone. What's this camp called? Oh yeah, DEVELOPMENT camp! Some of you are over the top and it's hilarious.

Do I think the guy is ready for #2 duty? Probably not, but could he be in a yr or maybe later this yr, sure.

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | July 16, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

we should come up with a name for this. When someone massively exaggerates the opposing viewpoint to give themselves more credibility.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 12:10 PM

Not quite the same, but in the Senate they call it "blarney" when you overpraise the opposition.

timbo: Thanks for the Koivu info. I've admitted before I don't watch the West much, but will more since I've relocated. I use a stats type system like maybe an arbitration judge, so some of my comparisons are off somewhat. As for comparison to Lombardi a joke, no, you can compare any two players if you do it accurately. For instance, you might rate Koivu as "twice as valuable as Lombardi," in which case the $7M and $3.5M relate perfectly.

BTW, the Wild system gets rated as "offensively starved," but they've got some high-paid players there. In will try and watch them more this year as they are perhaps the "anti-Caps."

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

No U2 that's not the point. The point is you can't tell hardly anyting out of 1 video from 1 play on 1 player! PERIOD. And it's just fitting that Cstanton picked a "negative" video to show everybody.
----------------------------------

blahdy blahdy blahdy blah

First of all, I don't have any agenda out to get MaJo. Go find me another post I've ever made about him. I have never trashed the guy, not once. So you can shove that point back up from whence it came.
Two, that was a develop camp vid I found today. I didn't go looking for a negative play from MaJo. In fact I stayed out of the debate regarding him being our 2nd line center. The fact the play showed up on the video has nothing to do with me trying to paint him in a negative light.

Tominsocal's comments reflect my feelings on the kid. He's not ready. And that one play can definitely be a strong indicator of his overall style. The way he played that forward looked like it came naturally to him. The same way that kid MacLeod rushed in on the forecheck and bounced Carrier off the puck. It looks like its a natural way for him to play.

AHL seasoning would be something MaJo needs. Of course, judging from the way you constantly post you probably see nothing wrong with the way he handled that play because you swallow whatever krap the Caps mgmt spits out.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Do I think the guy is ready for #2 duty? Probably not, but could he be in a yr or maybe later this yr, sure.


Posted by: pokerfaceI208

On a rebuilding team, maybe. Not a contender.

Posted by: underpants2 | July 16, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

In 2-3 years, it's much more likely that Kuznetzov is the 2C than MJ, just based on their styles of play and what I've seen so far. Especially if Semin is still here. MJ fits better as the 3C IMO - not the offensive game, but good all around.

Posted by: zmega | July 16, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

and like i said, go find me some video of him playing in the def zone and I'd be happy to admit this one play was an aberration for him rather than the norm.

In the meantime, quit Blarneying!

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

I think we should call it "Cheefing"! :-| DOH

Posted by: FrankM73 | July 16, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

pokerface: The bottom line is that nothing in his resume says, "Ready for NHL," much less #2C on Cup challenger.

Did you read the link from the Swedish writer yesterday? I think it said only 7 Swedish forwards ever had made the jump in the timeframe MaJo would have to do to play this year. Guys like Forsberg and Backie on that list, and Gus I think.

I'm very high on the guy, I think everyone is from reports, but it's only logical that he would need a year at Hershey, and it's disappointing that his contract would send him back to Sweden this year.

BTW, the word from camp is he had a swedish meatball sub for lunch. No mayo, but tomato sauce.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

MJ looked horrible, just cut him now. First impression is everything, btw when is Jim Carey's HoF induction?

All seriousness don't read too much into the camp, not this one. Training camp when they play other NHL team is what counts and what I'm looking forward too. Lets see how MJ does then.

Random thought, there is another Vet Swede center who could be signed mid-season if the kids don't work out.

Posted by: flee001 | July 16, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Sometimes I dream that he is me ... like MaJo, if I could be like MaJo ... yeah, that's the stuff.

Posted by: flee001 | July 16, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ghmqshPthE

shades of Steve Moore on Markus Naslund

at least the kid knows how to lead with his shoulder.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Random thought, there is another Vet Swede center who could be signed mid-season if the kids don't work out.

Posted by: flee001

Nylander?

Posted by: underpants2 | July 16, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

@tom - thanks man, I think you'll enjoy watching him, he plays a very complete game. And take note of who's out there in crucial situations, defending a one-goal lead late and when the game's on the line [ie., for us, it wasn't typically Flash]. And I think the Minn could do damage in the playoffs, the problem is they have to actually get there first; they simply don't score enough. Losing Gaborik really hurt them. I enjoy watching the Caps so much more, even without Ovie they play vastly more entertaining hockey, but the Wild would be pretty miserable to go against in a best-of-seven series; just ask the Avs about that [with a healthy Forsberg, Sakic and Patty Roy in net, no less].

Posted by: Timbo_1 | July 16, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Random thought, there is another Vet Swede center who could be signed mid-season if the kids don't work out.

Posted by: flee001

Nylander?

Posted by: underpants2

Nylander ... who's that? I'm thinking of a guy that has a tender ankle and who's preferred team (cough philly) won't have room to bring him in.

Posted by: flee001 | July 16, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Another thing on MaJo...not to pick...but...he really hasn't accomplished as much as Alzner (picked two years ahead of him) had accomplished when, two years ago, Alzner was annointed "King Karl" and said to be ready, only couldn't stay due to Nylander.

Now, two years later, look where we are. Alzner, with a strong resume of NA play, still needed the two extra years and now is likely ready (although not a given) to play, say, 3rd pair NHL duty on D.

If MaJo is equally as talented as Alzner, all things equal, he would need maybe another year in Sweden and then a year in Hershey (with some time up with Caps) to be truly ready to step in.

Look at Fehr. He really broke out last year, at 23 or 24, and his resume was equal/better than MaJo up to 19 years old. OK, Fehr had injuries. BUT, point is, it's very rare for players to contribute meaningfully at MaJo's age. Even the above-average players don't usually stand out a bit until 21, 22 or 23. And most of them who contribute young come out of the Canadian system.

Given all of the above, for him to crack the line-up, and get those 50-60 pts needed of a #2C, would be shocking.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

@tominsocal1

I agree it is asking too much to expect much from MaJo this year on the Caps. If he can do it, then great. But given his age and experience, one more year in either the AHL or in Sweden should help him. It will also give him another year to train and get bigger and stronger.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 16, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Given all of the above, for him to crack the line-up, and get those 50-60 pts needed of a #2C, would be shocking.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

I also think its easier to come onto a team as a younger player on the bottom 2 lines if that's your forte. Being a checking line player doesn't require a big adjustment as long as the kid has the requisite size or strength. Its a simpler north south game. You stay in your lane for the most part, go up and down the lane, know which guy to cover when, and hit and create some energy. And thats why sometimes teams will employ young players on their checking lines first even though their eventual aim is to play on a higher line. It lets them learn the NHL game and speed without exposing them to more complex aspects until they get comfortable.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

if he went back to Sweden it would be stupid. He's not going to learn what he needs to learn there.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

NB went back to Sweden for another year of growth and it turned out well. If MaJo goes to Sweden then he'll still need at least 1 year in Hershey with more playing time to adjust, it's just a different game. Over on Hockey Buzz there is a transcript of Zerdev (spelling?) conference call on joining the Flyers. He makes the point many times at how different the NHL and KHL are and the same applies to the SEL. MaJo, if he goes back to Europe will be for physical growth but not game growth, it's just too different. A petition is needed to get him to commit to the AHL ... lets do this thing.

Posted by: flee001 | July 16, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

@flee001

The game growth could be MaJo playing as a #1 center on the premier team in the SEL throughout the year. He would have to deal with the pressures and expectations of being the man also. It might not be a bad thing. The swedish league is also known for its good defensive play. He would likely gain more defensive experience by playing in the SEL.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 16, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Nylander ... who's that? I'm thinking of a guy that has a tender ankle and who's preferred team (cough philly) won't have room to bring him in.

Posted by: flee001 | July 16, 2010 12:50 PM |

Sign him. If he can't play, then it's no hit on our cap. If he can, great.

1 year @ league minimum.

Posted by: richmondphil | July 16, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

How is playing center on the #1 line in Sweden going to acclimate him to nhl hockey with respect to some of the potential holes in his game? If anything it will hone the offensive side of his game, not the defensive. And if their style is to play high instead of attacking, then that's one more habit he'll have to break before he can play here. The quicker he plays in NA, the better off he'll be.

AHL. That's where he needs to play. Against a better representation of future nhl style and talent than he'll see over there.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Side note, Carolina is looking to retire Brind'Amour's number. If true am I the only one to find this tacky? No knock on the man but retiring a number this fast for a decent player this fast?

Posted by: flee001 | July 16, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

MaJo will definitely improve more in the SEL because he will get much better meatball subs in Sweden due to the prevelance of Swedish meatballs over there.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 16, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

I'm pretty sure sgm post was about the SEL not requiring their centers to forecheck. Instead, they prefer them to stay 3rd man high. The SEL sure isn't going to help MaJo learn how to forecheck.

Posted by: richmondphil | July 16, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

@flee

You're aware the Caps retired Yvon Labre, right? At least Brindy led them to a Cup.

Posted by: richmondphil | July 16, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

@richmondphil

Yeah, but look at the Caps and most team in recent years. You can name 4-5 Caps who should have their numbers hanging based on Carolina's standards. Yeah he won a Cup, I get why they are doing it but seems fast is all.

@sgm3

Lets hope he don't turn into no meatball himself.

Ovie's girl is not that great either, bone is for the dog, meat is for the man. (let the debate and image links begin).

Posted by: flee001 | July 16, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Side note, Carolina is looking to retire Brind'Amour's number. If true am I the only one to find this tacky? No knock on the man but retiring a number this fast for a decent player this fast?

Posted by: flee001 | July 16, 2010 1:33 PM

considering they don't have a whole lot to choose from, i'd say its very appropriate. Even if they included Hartford players they wouldn't have a lot to choose from. No offence to any Whale fans but even Francis and Dineen didn't play there that long.

Brindy's on the short list for the Canes. Along with Erik Cole. Maybe Ron Francis but I doubt it.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

@flee001

As the old saying goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But I think she is a supermodel in Russia.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 16, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

The SEL is an outstanding league, with a lot of very good players. It is simply a deeper and faster league than the A, TSN-type propaganda notwithstanding. Most top Swedish picks who have stood out at the NHL level have skipped the A entirely [Forsberg, Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Koivu - yes he's Finnish but played in the SEL before coming over, Sundin, the Sedinds, etc.]. If I were his agent, at least, this would be a no-brainer.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | July 16, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

You can name 4-5 Caps who should have their numbers hanging based on Carolina's standards. Yeah he won a Cup, I get why they are doing it but seems fast is all.
---------------------

They don't have much to choose from since they're a recent franchise and today in the era of FA players usually don't stay with one team that long to put up big #s or long tenure.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

There's no way the Canes don't retire Francis. Hartford/Canes contribution, he's already in the HHOF, etc.

I'm sure we'll be seeing #10 up there soon.

Posted by: richmondphil | July 16, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I very much doubt he'll go back to Sweden. Farjestad has already dropped him from the roster on their website. And even if he did, he'd most likely be their third center considering centers Richard Wallin and Mikael Johansson are back on the team.

Posted by: jakopz | July 16, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

@richmondphil

Thank you for correctly hitting my point on the SEL. MaJo may end up coming over the most defensively responsible center the Caps have based on his extended play in the SEL.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 16, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

M. Koivu vs M. Lombardi (stats from last 2 seasons + playoffs):

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_compare.php?compare%5B%5D=742&compare%5B%5D=211&sent=go&games=YEAR%3AR%7CP%3A200%5B78%5D

btw, everyone (especially people into fantasy hockey) should bookmark this page:

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool/

All these comparative tools are available:

Line Combinations
Line Production
Compare-A-Player
Compare-A-Goalie

And check out the link for "Report Generator". Among other normal stats logged, you will find "salary per point" and "cap hit per point".

For this past season, the Caps had 3 players in the Top 50 in Salary/pt: Backstrom was 1st at $8,416, Flash was 12th at $14,216, and Fehr was 31st at $19,788.

Cap hit/pt Top 50: Flash was 5th at $14,216, Fehr was 18th at $19,788, and Backstrom was 36th at $23,762.

Posted by: YouAreABigWhiner | July 16, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

I very much doubt he'll go back to Sweden. Farjestad has already dropped him from the roster on their website. And even if he did, he'd most likely be their third center considering centers Richard Wallin and Mikael Johansson are back on the team.

Posted by: jakopz |

I'm not questioning what you said, but MaJo has said in the past that he will use his clause to return to SEL if he doesn't make the Caps roster. *shrug

Posted by: richmondphil | July 16, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

to be fair, the AHL wasn't the league back then (when Forsberg, Lidstrom came up) that it is now.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Mikko Koivu is also a great, complete player and a very funny guy. Yeah, he may have been slightly overpaid, but he's the Wild's #1 center, and that's why he got most of that money.

I like the Koivu family, and Saku would've been a great 2nd/3rd line pivot.

Posted by: richmondphil | July 16, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

to be fair, the AHL wasn't the league back then (when Forsberg, Lidstrom came up) that it is now.

Posted by: cstanton1 |

I'd still maybe give the slight edge to the SEL. Lots of AHL teams have filler, not all of them are stocked like the Bears or Monarchs. I see what you're saying though, and the AHL certainly is no slouch. Most importantly, the AHL helps acclimate players to the physical, smaller, rough and tumble play in NA.

Posted by: richmondphil | July 16, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

but it seems, from reports, that LA is holding out in the upper 5's or maybe lower 6's (last I knew).
________________________________

These reported 5-6 mil/yr cap hits were reportedly for front-loaded, Hossa-esque contracts.

If Kovy signs a normal contract, it will be 7 mil/yr +

Posted by: richmondphil | July 16, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse


I very much doubt he'll go back to Sweden. Farjestad has already dropped him from the roster on their website. And even if he did, he'd most likely be their third center considering centers Richard Wallin and Mikael Johansson are back on the team.

Posted by: jakopz |

I'm not questioning what you said, but MaJo has said in the past that he will use his clause to return to SEL if he doesn't make the Caps roster. *shrug

Posted by: richmondphil | July 16, 2010 1:53 PM

I remember reading that too.

I think that its an interesting argument though, where should he go?

NHL - kinda scary at this point, especially when I think playoffs (again looooong way away, but he will still be a rookie, in an important role, when he gets there).

SEL - its home...where he would rather be, better talent than AHL, is it a better environment for his development (personally)?

AHL - its where we grow out pups (most), and he is a pup.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 16, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

to add onto that point, and i don't mean to this to be oversimplification, but the common trend that I see in some of the Euros who come over is that they're slower to react to some situations on the ice. They overthink it. Their advantage is they have good vision and can see plays develop ahead of themselves and maybe that has to do with being raised in more creative systems. But some of the simpler plays that they need to make they fall short on. And thats where the NA minor leagues is a good place to learn those little things that really aren't so little.

Of course not all Euros have a hard time adapting to NA hockey but this is my general perception of the challenges which face some of these players.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 16, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

out = our

my most common typo

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 16, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

qwerty
qwerty
qwerty

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 16, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Look, my intent was not to kill Lombardi, the guy's in the NHL so he can obviously play. My point is, if you were Lombardi's agent and you opened negotiations with, "Well, Mikko Koivu just signed for y, so we should get at least x," you would lose all credibility.

Again, numbers are fun to play with, but they don't begin to tell the whole story in terms of the total package.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | July 16, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Elitserien would be as valuable as the AHL despite AHL being a notch down in quality. And playing 3rd line center for Farjestad wouldn't give him much ice time. As have been pointed out, he needs to get used to the style of play in North America and the best venue for that is here, not in Sweden.

Posted by: jakopz | July 16, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

They overthink it. Their advantage is they have good vision and can see plays develop ahead of themselves and maybe that has to do with being raised in more creative systems.
_______________________

Probably has a lot to do with the larger ice surface as well.

Posted by: richmondphil | July 16, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1:

"to an extent that may be true, but only to an extent. Physicality is the primary attribute for many players in this league if we can assume for a moment they need to have a certain acceptable degree of other obvious qualities required of a pro hockey player."
This a development/tryout camp. The players are trying to demonstrate they have the ability to play at the NHL level or develop into an NHL level player. I know you know that, but I had to state it. Anyhow, the player in question caught the coaches eye, in a favorable fashion, because he made the right plays. Finley is a good example to illustrate the point I'm trying to make. The guy is physical, but up to this point he hasn't proven that he can play at the NHL level. If you have a player that makes good plays and is physical he's well on the way to possibly becoming an NHL player. A player that is physical, but can't play at a high enough level won't ever be an NHLer.

"and who gets to decide this? Bruce?"
As far as team matters, yeah Bruce. Until he gets fired, he's the man. As far as the league goes the league decides. For example some coaches and teams will take an Avery on their team, some aren't interested. And, the thing of it is Avery is a good skater that can play.

In general:
I wouldn't mind seeing the Caps be more physical. But, the thing that scares me about that is the PK.

My guess is that none of the players in the development camp will be NHL regulars this year. Some will probably get called up.

I further guess that the Caps will try Perrault at 2nd line center. If it doesn't look like it's going to work then they'll go outside the organization.

Posted by: BetterOffWithFedorov | July 16, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

How are Francois Bouchard and Anton Gustafsson developing, any news there?

Posted by: flee001 | July 16, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

My guess is that none of the players in the development camp will be NHL regulars this year. Some will probably get called up.
-----------

On a different team - i.e., weaker and w/o SC aspirations - I actually think Kuznetzov might have a good shot, based on what I saw. Although, tangling with an up-and-coming tender whom the 'Organization' loves is probably not the recommended way to go.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | July 16, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Tangent here, but bear with me: the Wings might field a 3L of Modano centering Cleary and Hudler - that's a pretty damn good third line:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=534524

Even if MM has lost a step, that means he's only quicker than 90% of the guys, rather than 99%. He'll always be able to score, and Hitchcock made him be strong defensively. Somehow, I'm a little less confident if we answer with Mr. Belanger at #3C. And for all the talk about the Caps' vaunted 'finesse', that line's footspeed blows away our 3L's [unless MP plays there, I realize; but I think that's not a great fit].

And I know I seem to harp on the importance of passing sometimes, but look at Babcock's pitch to MM: "In Detroit, it won't be a grind if we've got all of our players. We'll get 100 points and you'll get the puck on your tape."

Posted by: Timbo_1 | July 16, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Modano was in play for the Caps at this past trade deadline so why not make a pitch for him now? 1 year contract as a 2-3C, solid.

Posted by: flee001 | July 16, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Timbo: The reason I used Lombardi and Plekanec in my Koivu comparison was that these three are the most recent UFA contracts at center.

I read the link above. I'm now more convinced Koivu is better than I thought. I had him pegged 5.5. Now I can see where he might be "almost twice worth Lombardi." But, I still have a problem with him at near 7 because Henrik Sedin is 6.1. Of course, that contract is several years old.

OK, you are knowledgeable on this, you are the GM, you get to pick for your team, either or, do you take Sedin or Koivu?

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 16, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Sedin's cap hits were considered steals at the time, and then no one expected them to put up the numbers they did last year, so it seems even more of a steal.

H. Sedin especially is more of an anomaly.

Posted by: richmondphil | July 16, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

@tom - gotcha, that makes sense.

Koivu v. Sedin is a tough call, moreso because I really love the way Sedin plays; every since I was an 8 yr.-old boy there's been little better than give-and-go hockey and Sedin so excels at it; he really is unbelievable to watch, some of the passes he pulls off [and you seemingly can't give him a bad pass]. But Koivu's so powerful and strong on his skates, and is still a damn good playmaker, if not quite in Sedin's class.

As a winger in a contract year, playing with Sedin would an agent's dream. But you asked as a GM - in that case, I really think you'd have to go with Koivu, all things considered.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | July 16, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

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