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Fehr, Caps talking extension

The Caps and pending restricted free agent Eric Fehr are in negotiations on an extension, according to agent Don Meehan.

When I asked Meehan if the discussions included a multi-year option, he said, "Yes." He would not elaborate on the susbtance of the talks.

Meehan did, however, confirm that the sides met late last month and that the talks are going smoothly.

"We're working on it," Meehan said. "We've had a good start in relation to our discussions."

Fehr, despite receiving only 12:07 in ice time last season, posted career highs in goals (21) and points (39) last season. The 24-year-old has arbitration rights and earned about $772,000 last season on a one year deal.

By Tarik El-Bashir  |  June 8, 2010; 5:38 PM ET
 
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Comments

If the Caps can sign him cheap ($3 mil or under) for 3-4 years, they should. He's Knuble's future replacement. How about 4 years, $10 mil?

Posted by: butcherbaker | June 8, 2010 6:05 PM | Report abuse

1 yr 2.0
2 yrs 4.5
3 yrs 7.5
4 yrs 11.0

Take your pick.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Absolutely someone we need to sign. He is getting better every year.

Posted by: Caps4Life1 | June 8, 2010 7:14 PM | Report abuse

@tom -- sounds about right to me, though I'd guess more like 2.5-3 for a 1-year.

Posted by: butcherbaker | June 8, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

someone has to put one of these up, i'll start it off.

I hope the contract for both sides is FEHR!

Posted by: capsfan387 | June 8, 2010 7:57 PM | Report abuse

someone has to put one of these up, i'll start it off.

I hope the contract for both sides is FEHR!

Posted by: capsfan387 | June 8, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to see them resign him, but I hope they don't over pay.
I just read that the Caps are not going to make an offer to Volchenkov. If that's the case, then they better have their sights on a couple (more than one) of upgrades at D... like Michalek and Tallinder or Sutton.
Otherwise, it won't matter what current forwards they re-sign.

Posted by: mdmtnbiker | June 8, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

I think it will be somewhere around $2M per year and the argument is using Laich's contract as the starting point. Fehr is improving but plays less minutes and in less situations.

How about 4 years at 8.5M?

Posted by: pkendrick | June 8, 2010 8:34 PM | Report abuse

Tallinder??!?!

Posted by: richmondphil | June 8, 2010 8:34 PM | Report abuse

And I am definitely with mdmtnbiker that we should go after Michalek on D.

Posted by: pkendrick | June 8, 2010 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Derek Morris over in Phx is a possibility 3.3mil cap hit now. Tallinder is 3.2mil. seidenberg in boston might work 2.2mil. even another option to consider is kurtis foster from tb.

Posted by: capsfan387 | June 8, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Seidenberg just signed an extension. Derek Morris and Tallinder both aren't very good defenders.

Michalek is a good target, but he's young and is going to get a lot of money from a team who can afford it.

I think we should trade for a d-man, maybe sign someone like Weaver or Hamhuis.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 8, 2010 8:49 PM | Report abuse

4 years, $10-11M sounds good to me. Or 3 year, $7-8.5M. If Fehr gets 2nd line minutes, he could have a good shot at 30 goals.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 8, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

If the Caps can sign him cheap ($3 mil or under) for 3-4 years, they should. He's Knuble's future replacement. How about 4 years, $10 mil?

Posted by: butcherbaker | June 8, 2010 6:05 PM |

Totally agree. I wouldn't be suprised to see him swapping places with Knuble by mid-season. I think it will be a 2 year deal at most. Once Fehr gets established on the 1st line and starts putting up the numbers, he'll be entitled to much more than $2.5 - $3 per season.

Posted by: thomas20 | June 8, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

I would keep Fehr as a 2nd liner for this season. Next season, Knuble will be gone - move Fehr up at that point. Although, having Fehr get some 1st line minutes would help in seeing how he works with Backstrom and Ovechkin.

And actually, looking at Knuble's numbers, he gets $2.8M this next season. Could that be used as a basis for Fehr's contract?

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 8, 2010 9:19 PM | Report abuse

If Fehr gets a long-term deal (and I hope he does) then it should (ok, I hope) mean bye-bye Fleischmann.

Posted by: CapsNut | June 8, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Fehr was a two-time 50+ goal scorer in nthe WHL. He is just learning how to really play in the NHL. His wrister is wicked. Someone mentioned the Laich contract above. Laich was 3 yrs/$6.2M two years ago and the cap has gone up I think about 8% since then. The Laich contract is close but Fehr has I think a better upside. McPhee must wrestle with signing him now (Schultz too) or let some other team set the price. I can easily see $3M offers for 3-4 yrs for either player as RFAs with comp at only a #2 pick. As has been posted, the Caps aren't world-beaters at making 2nd round picks. The conservative but "fehr" move with both players is two years, about $2.25M yr and then they have one more RFA contract to sign in 2012. Like someone just posted, give Fehr the minutes on the second line (and 1st line in 2011-12) and we are looking at a career that could be 300 goals over the next ten years.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

timmy: Knuble was a UFA contract. For Fehr, you have to use 24- and 25-year-olds as comparable. If he went to arbitration, that's who would be used.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Honestly, I would offer $15M for five years and hope he takes and then outplays the contract. I think he's worth the gamble.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 9:31 PM | Report abuse

tom, I was just saying to use it as a basis - something to work from. Fehr and Knuble are similar in style, but Knuble's numbers were better; however, Fehr is younger. I think the ranges people are suggesting here are good though.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 8, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

@richmondphil

Yeah, Seidenberg signed for 4 years at $3.25M/yr. That sets a pretty good line one what to expect others to sign.

I think Micahlek could be a very good signing. I think he will fall in the Seidenbrg range of contracts. Some teams will sign Volchenkov, Martin, Hamuis, and Gonchar to large contracts and those 4 teams will then unlikely be players for Michalek.

There are a decent amount of good defenders on the market. It will be interesting to see if it is a better idea to sign a top guy fast to a big contract or wait 2 or 3 days and sign a guy like Michalek to a more palatable deal in hopes that when other teams drop out his price drops.

I think one player who will be very interesting to watch is Willie Mitchell. He suffered a very serious concussion last year and is a serious injury risk. However, this could drive down his price greatly.

So it is a big risk/reward signing. He could turn into an absolute steal with ohter teams dropping off or he could turn into an absolute bust if he can't come back or if he comes back as a shell of his former self.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 8, 2010 9:52 PM | Report abuse

It's interesting if you go to nhlnumbers.com and look up every player between 24 and 27. Look at the stats and compare to contract by year and contract length. Generally you find that the player you think will get $2M is more likely worth $3-4M. Here's a guy, was mentioned earlier today, his stats over the last three years almost exacly the same as Brooks Laich. Laich has made the last three years what this guy gets for one year:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustin_Penner

He had a pretty decent season the year before he signed the offer sheet, that last year in Anaheim. So who got the last laugh - Lowe or Burke?

Don't bet against Brian Burke so, please, let's not see the Caps trade with Toronto. I like McPhee, but we'd lose.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 10:12 PM | Report abuse

Penner has better numbers than Laich. He got over 30 goals this season, and 29 goals a few seasons go. Plus, he is significantly bigger and more physical than Laich - 6'4, 245 vs. 6'2, 200. He really can't be used as a basis for comparison.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 8, 2010 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Penner has better numbers than Laich. He got over 30 goals this season, and 29 goals a few seasons go. Plus, he is significantly bigger and more physical than Laich - 6'4, 245 vs. 6'2, 200. He really can't be used as a basis for comparison.

Posted by: timmyv38

Agree. Plus, 30 goals on Edmonton is much more difficult to accomplish.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 8, 2010 10:45 PM | Report abuse

Now that we have some word on Fehr, how about news on Schultz?

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 8, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

There's no way I'd pay Penner $12.75M over the last three years over Laich at $4.5M. Since Penner signed the big contract, he has 72 goals and Laich 69. Point is, if people think Fehr is worth "Laich money," then Fehr can almost just as easily argue for "Penner money." And, if not, maybe there's another kook out there like Kevin Lowe who'd throw a 5-yr pile of loot at Fehr.

Every mistake ever made by any GM is fair game in the world of arbitration. In the salary cap world of 2010, hockey, uniquely, is ruled by neither players nor management but jointly by both - as it should be.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 11:33 PM | Report abuse

There's no way I'd pay Penner $12.75M over the last three years over Laich at $4.5M. Since Penner signed the big contract, he has 72 goals and Laich 69. Point is, if people think Fehr is worth "Laich money," then Fehr can almost just as easily argue for "Penner money." And, if not, maybe there's another kook out there like Kevin Lowe who'd throw a 5-yr pile of loot at Fehr.

Every mistake ever made by any GM is fair game in the world of arbitration. In the salary cap world of 2010, hockey, uniquely, is ruled by neither players nor management but jointly by both - as it should be.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 11:33 PM | Report abuse

My kids definately like Fehr. When the Caps were here in Colorado he skated over to the glass and tossed over 2 pucks for my 2 boys during warmups. It was quite the gesture. Very very cool on his part.

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | June 8, 2010 11:37 PM | Report abuse

Double post? What did I do?

I know some people bash Schultz for this and that, and others bash plus/minus as a worthless stat, but I'll bet a bottle of Rolaids that Shultz comes away with more than most of you think.

I have posted before the list of yearly +/- leaders and it's impressive. Names like Orr, Gretzky and Stevens. Schultz is in good company. You pair him with the right guy, a nasty player who maintains good position, and 55 is an effective #2 paid d-man.

tominsocal1 prediction: Jeff Schultz earns $35M over the next ten years. When he retires, he will be referred to as "solid."

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 11:41 PM | Report abuse

tom - agreed, Penner is overpaid when you look at his numbers, straight up. But neither Laich or Fehr has produced like Penner. Look at the team Penner was on - this last season, the percentage of Edmonton's goals scored by Penner (32 out of 206, or 15.53%) was about the same as the percentage of Washington's goals scored by Ovechkin (50 out of 313, or 15.97%). So, while Fehr could easily ask for a similar salary to Laich, you can't compare either to Penner.

Fehr is deserving of a contract of $2.5-3M, seeing how this season was the first where he really produced. Laich, having produced well for multiple seasons now, could get more. The Caps should definitely get Fehr re-signed before July 1st, because if they don't, other teams WILL try to get him.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 8, 2010 11:45 PM | Report abuse

tom - agreed on all points about Schultz. While +/- is not a solid stat like goals/points/etc., it can be a good indicator - especially when it is as big as +50. In 2008-09, the leader was at +37. In 2007-08, it was +41. The last time anyone had higher than +50 was 2002-03. Schultz did benefit from an incredibly strong offense, but he also did his part in stopping the other team from scoring.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 8, 2010 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Will be happy to see Fehr resigned given that he's one of my sentimental favorites.

1) Over 20 goals despite missing a month with injuries and limited ice time

2) Our future replacement for Knuble (who's getting up there in years)

3) Our substitute 2nd line right winger (in case either Knuble or Semin get injured).

Gotta love the 1st rounder of my daughter's draft class, so to speak, at least on the basis of age. Plus I dig those blue eyes as well.

(Nothing like my favorite guys on the Caps, outside of Ovi, fighting for ice time at right wing.)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | June 8, 2010 11:58 PM | Report abuse


@tominsocal1

"Honestly, I would offer $15M for five years and hope he takes and then outplays the contract. I think he's worth the gamble."

I agree 100%. This is someone who can potentially play well on any line, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th.


Posted by: LesGrossman | June 9, 2010 1:02 AM | Report abuse

@tominsocal1 & LesGrossman

Yes, he's got the flexibility to function on any line.

Believe he'd be wasted on the fourth line. Best on 2nd or 3rd. Hasn't had much of a chance on the first.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | June 9, 2010 6:46 AM | Report abuse

No way we should need or want Penner or Whitney. It's even worse that Kubina was mentioned. One good season on Atlanta. I watched him play for Toronto. He's a major liability. There are times when he would make Joe Corvo look like Niklas Lidstrom.

Posted by: hockeynightincanada | June 9, 2010 7:16 AM | Report abuse

5yrs/15 mil would be a steal at the end of that contract I have a feeling. I hope tom is right and GMGM pulls the trigger on a deal like that.

Posted by: PhilR | June 9, 2010 7:45 AM | Report abuse

I don't think Fehr got 12:07 of ice time this season. I think he got an average of 12:07 of ice time per game this season. He goals per time on the ice is very high. I hope we sign him long term.

Posted by: RinkRaith | June 9, 2010 8:27 AM | Report abuse

5yrs/15 mil would be a steal at the end of that contract I have a feeling. I hope tom is right and GMGM pulls the trigger on a deal like that.

Posted by: PhilR

Can't pay Fehr $3m per year. He is closer to $2m.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 9, 2010 8:37 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: greenmachine | June 9, 2010 8:39 AM | Report abuse

Can't pay Fehr $3m per year. He is closer to $2m.

Posted by: underpants2


2m a year for 2yrs maybe...if you want to sign him long term it is more like 3m per year. He is only 24 and will only improve over the next few years....3 mil would be a steal after the first year as he would most likely be your first line winger opposite Ovie.

Posted by: PhilR | June 9, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Every mistake ever made by any GM is fair game in the world of arbitration. In the salary cap world of 2010, hockey, uniquely, is ruled by neither players nor management but jointly by both - as it should be.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 11:33 PM

-------------

Düüüde! That was so deep I threw a church bell down it last night...and am still waiting to hear that bell hit bottom. XD

On a more serious note, I think Fehr should get a 3 year deal @ $6.5M.

Posted by: Rhino40 | June 9, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Fehr won't see 1st or 2nd line action unless there is an injury, Knuble and Semin have that covered for next season, in 2011-12 Fehr will make the jump up to one of the two top lines. I really like him, and hope we can sign him and Schultz for a multi-year contract. I hope we get Flash signed as well, at least for a one year, although if we sign him for at least a two year at a reasonable price, we maybe could move his contract if he falters or one of the young guys in our system make a charge to take his spot on left wing.

Posted by: boomer44 | June 9, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

I would give Fehr 50k a year, full medical and dental, 401k match, and 2 weeks PTO. Final offer.

Posted by: SA-Town | June 9, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Great quote in that article about Fehr:

"As St. Louis Blues coach Brian Sutter said about Brett Hull, I can always get someone to play defense, I can't always get someone to score 86 goals."

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Good idea to resign Fehr. He's still young n' can keep rising in his game.

Looking at other options: Theo, Walker, and Corvo are outta here. That opens some space in our cap. Get Lydman and Nittymaki. I'm telling all of you that these two players are being underestimated right now. It gives us a proven Defensive D-man and a young, yet established goalie.

1) If on a line with Green, there'd be yin/yang with Lydman. If not with Green, he can definitely hold the line with Schultz.

2) Looking at our goal, Varlamov is still young and needs a year or two to fully establish himself. Neuvirth is far too inexperienced to be a backup. Add Nittymaki and you get pretty solid goaltending. He had one bad year. You know, that year that ALL of Philly sucked. He got a silver medal with Team Finland in '06. Move him from an unproven D like TB and put him behind our D? He'll have a career year!

Posted by: Siikonen-FIN- | June 9, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

3 years and 7.9 mil for fehr. He could knuble's replacement, but knuble better teach him alot this year.

Also I bet we resign knuble for another year after this

Posted by: _stevo | June 9, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Fehr was a two-time 50+ goal scorer in nthe WHL. He is just learning how to really play in the NHL.
------------

problem with Fehr is, his skating holds him back. He's also not good defensively. So in essence he's a one-dimensional player who has good size, showed a bit of grit in the playoffs, and is best in close to the net. But he's not a good forechecker and his lack of speed/skating is what holds him back from being a true NHL level power forward. The guy I liken him to is Ryane Clowe except that Clowe is much stronger than Fehr is on his skates and more intimidating. And Clowe is a slightly better skater which allows him to get in on the forecheck and bang the D around.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Knuble is money

Posted by: doughless | June 9, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

No way we should need or want Penner or Whitney. It's even worse that Kubina was mentioned. One good season on Atlanta. I watched him play for Toronto. He's a major liability. There are times when he would make Joe Corvo look like Niklas Lidstrom
------------

totally agree on Kubina. He's awful. I have to scratch my head on the pro-Kubina talk. He's a slug and he doesn't use his size either. I'd rather have Schultz.

But I disagree on Penner. He's a horse. And the closest thing to a Dustin Bfyuglien that exists out there. And they're both named Dustin so hey!

Maybe Joe Finley can be our version of Buff. Like Buff, Finley is also a defenseman converted to forward.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Great quote in that article about Fehr:

"As St. Louis Blues coach Brian Sutter said about Brett Hull, I can always get someone to play defense, I can't always get someone to score 86 goals."

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

more importantly, you want someone who can go into the tough areas and score PLAYOFF goals :)

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

The Fourth Period is reporting that the following may be available soon:

Stephen Weiss and Keith Ballard from Florida

Shawn Horcoff and Sheldon Souray from Edmonton

Posted by: doughless | June 9, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Slater got 2 yrs at 2 mil total. So you know Fehr will get more than that.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Rumor from Hockey Buzz:

On Semin...

The early word was the Capitals were very high on running with their two young goalies until this latest possibility opened up. The Caps aren't moving Semin unless they get the one goalie they are targeting. Semin isn't being shopped, but rather one team out there is offering up a "goalie they can't refuse."

wonder who that goalie is???

Posted by: doughless | June 9, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

cstanton, you are not giving Fehr nearly enough credit. He isn't that fast, true, but his defense and forechecking are much better than you think. His 39 takeaways (with very limited ice time) puts him with players like Clowe, Getzlaf, and Dustin Brown - who all had much more playing time. Give him 2nd line minutes, and you'll start to see his potential. I would like to see him up his physical game, but he has been improving every season.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Don't bet against Brian Burke so, please, let's not see the Caps trade with Toronto. I like McPhee, but we'd lose.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 8, 2010 10:12 PM | Report abuse

have the Caps EVER traded with Toronto? I guess we got Rob Pearson from them eons ago. But in general certain teams have certain trading partners and the Caps to my immediate knowledge have never dealt with Toronto or Brian Burke. Besides, Burke always wants toughness and the Caps have none to give.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

timmy - his takeaways are in the offensive zone I bet. He really labors heavily trying to backcheck. He's also no good on the halfwall defensively. I cannot recall him winning any battles for pucks in our end of the ice. I'm not a Fehr basher at all, I just think due to his skating that he's not a complete player and will find it hard to ever be one. He's also not the forechecker a guy like Bradley or Laing is. I bet any NHL dman will tell you they'd rather have Fehr bearing down on them then Dustin Brown, Getzlaf or Clowe.

He doesn't get in deep quickly enough and force the D into making a quick pass. His strength really is to make a power move to the net and flick that wrister. And then go crashing the net like he showed in the playoffs. He was one of the few Caps willing to really mix it up in the crease. Granted, Montreal's defense isn't intimidating in the least but still.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Are you people crazy??? 2 or 3 million a year for Fehr??? No way in you know what I would give him that. That is to much of a rais from 700k. I would say 1 mil- 1.25 at most!!!

Posted by: rarcr | June 9, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Semin, Flash to Florida
Horton, Weiss to Washington

Sign Hamhuis. Huh?

Maybe it's also time just to move Green up from the blueline? Byfuglien used to play D.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 9, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

i sure hope we don't burn up a Semin on a goalie. We need Semin to get us back some forwards or D. Our goaltending is not the problem. I hope the "lesson" the Caps front office didn't take away from this playoffs is what Halak did for Montreal. That would be masking our real issues.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

I would give Fehr 50k a year, full medical and dental, 401k match, and 2 weeks PTO. Final offer.

Posted by: SA-Town | June 9, 2010 9:39 AM

And all the $2 beers he can handle?

Posted by: Fro_ | June 9, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Sheldon Souray from Edmonton

Posted by: doughless | June 9, 2010 10:36 AM

No thanks.

Posted by: Fro_ | June 9, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

rarcr, look at his stats. You don't pay a player with 25+ goal ability $1.25M. Fehr will be the winger to play opposite Ovie in a couple of years.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

@doughless

The only one that makes sense in my mind is Lundqvist. All the other factors with the Rangers and their crazy owner and GM make it the most likely in my mind. I think most people in hockey would consider Lundqvist untouchable.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse

The Caps will not acquire a goalie. Their goalies combined will make @ $2m next year. That is absurdly valuable in the salary cap age. If anything, we should move one of the three now.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 9, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Lundqvist and the addition of a standup defenseman......that would be pretty sweet

Posted by: doughless | June 9, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

The Good: 2009-10 was a breakout year for Fehr, as the former first round draft pick broke the 20 goals plateau, set career highs in goals, assists, and points, and enjoyed the healthiest season of his NHL career. But how good was Eric Fehr's 2009-10 season? Consider the following: by scoring 1.50 goals per sixty minutes of 5-on-5 ice time, Fehr scored more often than every NHL forward other than Alex Ovechkin, Alexander Semin, Sidney Crosby, and Scottie Upshall. Fehr was no slouch in the assist department either, finishing sixth on the Caps in total assists per minute of 5-on-5 time, and fourth on the team - behind Ovechkin, Semin, and Nicklas Backstrom - in points per sixty minutes. Even more impressively, Fehr did it playing with the worst teammates of any non-fourth liner.

Of course, offense is only half the game. Luckily for Fehr, he acquitted himself pretty well in the defensive end as well. His 1.92 GAON/60 and 1.75 +-ON/60 are both solid, and above average, even on a team as talented as Washington. Fehr also took fewer penalties per minute of 5-on-5 play than any other Capital forward, drew more than any forward not named 'Alex', had the best per-minute penalty differential of anyone on the team, and blocked his fair share of shots. To top things off, Fehr only gave the puck away nine times in the 836:50 he played in the regular season and his 4.33 takeaway to giveaway ratio was 28% better than any other forward.

Finally, Fehr performed well this postseason, notching three goals and four points in his limited playing time, scoring goals at a higher rate than any of his teammates when it counted the most.

Fehr is more than responsible defensively.

Posted by: JSchon | June 9, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Are you people crazy??? 2 or 3 million a year for Fehr??? No way in you know what I would give him that. That is to much of a rais from 700k. I would say 1 mil- 1.25 at most!!!

Posted by: rarcr | June 9, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Jim Slater, essentially a checking line center in Atlanta just got a million per year and he scored 11 goals. Fehr had twice as many goals and points. Both 1st round picks too and they both play the same minutes per game. I think its safe to say Fehr's value sits somewhere between 1.75 and 2.5 mil/season.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse

I have to agree about the WHL stat - in today's game, 50 goals in the WHL doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot, it's not like in the day's of clutch and grab. Skating is just too important nowadays, it is a much faster game than even 10 years ago. And I don't that I really buy the Knuble comparisons; I realize Knuble isn't quick either but he does seem to use his size much more effectively.

I also think Fehr would struggle going against other team's top D on a nightly basis; just because of the cap there's a huge difference on good teams top D-men [Pronger, Timmonen, Lidstrom, Keith, Markov, etc.] and their #'s 5,6 [Coburn, Bergeron, Ference, etc.].

Posted by: Timbo_1 | June 9, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Completely agreed that goal-tending was NOT the problem in the playoffs.

Special teams and in-game adjustments however, definitely were.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | June 9, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

I'm glad GMGM is working on a deal for Fehr. Even if Semin is gone and Fehr is moved to the 2nd line, I'd like to see him play 1/4 of the games with Ovi and Backstrom. Gives Knuble a break and prepares Fehr for the 2011-2012 season.

I think the untouchable goalie is Kipprusopf. If Iginla is on the block, no one on that team is untouchable. Still Lundqvist's inability to score goals isn't helping the Rangers, so he is a possibility.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 9, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Fehr is more than responsible defensively.

Posted by: JSchon | June 9, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

He's not careless with the puck ala Semin or Ovechkin. He's just slow getting back to his own end and once he gets there he's not really sure what to do. Which is why you'll never find him on the ice in an obvious defensive situation but you will find Knuble on the ice and they both have very similar skill sets. Difference is, Knuble started his career as a checking line forward and all he ever did was learn how to play defense. Fehr has poor defensive instincts. He never knows which forward to go cover and he doesn't understand how to seal off the boards on the half-wall. He's not timid or anything, he just doesn't have good defensive instincts in his own end.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

another reason why I'm a big proponent of every forward prospect getting significant minutes on the 3rd and 4th lines because it helps hone their defensive games. There's always time for them to be moved up to an offensive role on a higher line. Fehr did get some time this year on more of a checking line but I've noticed the Caps generally put their "offensive" prospects immediately on a scoring line. They don't get a chance to be good two-way players that way. Both Vinny LeCav and Joe Thornton spent their entire rookie season on the 4th line for their respective teams.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

And I don't that I really buy the Knuble comparisons; I realize Knuble isn't quick either but he does seem to use his size much more effectively.
---------------------

and thats because Knuble was never looked upon as an offensive player when he broke into the league. His job was to use his size and grind the corners as a checker. Fehr got penciled in as a scorer so he skipped the checker role. Another reason why Knuble fits in better on the top line than does Fehr. Boudreau trusts him to do the right thing at BOTH ends of the ice. Also why Knuble gets to play on the PK unit.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton01

Fehr actually seems like an above average skater. I'd keep him on board because he has shown the ability to score. But, in truth, if we keep Semin and Flash (which I hope we do) the need for Fehr is reduced. I think he's definitely a 30 goal player in the NHL if he can get 2nd line minutes...

Looks like Caps lukewarm on Belanger...

Posted by: RedLitYogi | June 9, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Fehr does not = Knuble

Posted by: doughless | June 9, 2010 12:24 PM | Report abuse

That could be it, Knuble is much better in his own end as well, Fehr does sometimes seem a little lost down there. And I rarely see Knuble not get the puck out on the breakout, it may not be pretty but he usually gets it to somebody [granted it might be in their skates, but OV and Backstrom can handle it] - and if the puck doesn't get out, he at least erases the point-man.

Part of it may be, Knuble doesn't really look like it off the ice, but on the ice he's strong as hell.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | June 9, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Fehr does not = Knuble

Posted by: doughless


He currently does not=Knuble but with five more years will he then=Knuble at the age of 29? That is the real question, does he continue to improve and learn how to use his big frame to his advantage at both ends of the ice surface or is this his pinnacle?

That is why the GM's get paid the big bucks, to be able to answer those types of questions.

Posted by: PhilR | June 9, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

i dont think we need a goalie. go with Varly and Neuvirth and use that extra cap room for D and a 2nd line center.

Posted by: capsfansince74 | June 9, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

I like Fehr but we're getting a little ahead of ourselves in saying he'll replace Knuble on the 1st line after next season. Fehr doesn't play a ton of minutes because he isn't very good in his own end or as a passer. Knuble developed those skills later in his career which is a possiblity with Fehr. Given that Fehr had major surgery on BOTH shoulders last summer, a 4-year deal seems a bit too long. He's going to be in the $2M range, but would hate to commit to more than 2-3 years on a guy who has had one full season.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 9, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

No way we should need or want Penner or Whitney. It's even worse that Kubina was mentioned. One good season on Atlanta. I watched him play for Toronto. He's a major liability. There are times when he would make Joe Corvo look like Niklas Lidstrom
------------

totally agree on Kubina. He's awful. I have to scratch my head on the pro-Kubina talk. He's a slug and he doesn't use his size either. I'd rather have Schultz.


_____________________________________

lol....


I know stats aren't your thing, but Kubina is known for his physicality. On top of that, he routinely has an almost equal or higher takeaway to giveaway number. This is in a league where 99% of the defenders have a higher giveaway number.

Lets couple that with his blocked shot count, and it really is mind-blowing to hear someone say they want Schultz over Kubina.

Salary-wise, Kubina probably won't work, but lets not pretend he isn't an upgrade at the blue line because of some preconceived notion you have.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse


He currently does not=Knuble but with five more years will he then=Knuble at the age of 29? That is the real question, does he continue to improve and learn how to use his big frame to his advantage at both ends of the ice surface or is this his pinnacle?

That is why the GM's get paid the big bucks, to be able to answer those types of questions.

Posted by: PhilR | June 9, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

all that is predicated on development. Will they develop Fehr into a 2way player. That goes for everyone really. Will the Caps develop their offensive dmen into two way dmen. It can be done and other teams have shown it can be done. Fehr needs to of course contribute to his own development as well by improving his skating and his strength. But the Caps play a major role in his development also by helping hone other parts of his game, and demanding a more well-rounded game from him. I think the improvement you saw from Mike Green the latter half of this year was driven by Greenie himself, not the Caps. His olympic snub was the best thing to happen to him. His tenacity level in his own end almost changed overnight. His hitting definitely went up. He used to go a few games without getting a single hit. Then suddenly halfway thru the year he was getting 3-4 hits per game. That's a mental adjustment on his part to commit to that.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton01

Fehr actually seems like an above average skater. I'd keep him on board because he has shown the ability to score. But, in truth, if we keep Semin and Flash (which I hope we do) the need for Fehr is reduced. I think he's definitely a 30 goal player in the NHL if he can get 2nd line minutes...

Looks like Caps lukewarm on Belanger...

Posted by: RedLitYogi | June 9, 2010 12:23 PM

Of all the potential free agents, Flash is the one we have the least need for. His goal scoring ability won't be missed, he is one of the streakiest players in the NHL, and he has no physicality. Laich and Fehr are both better options for the 2nd line.

The main reason for keeping Fehr above Flash is his play in front of the net. He still needs to improve on it, but under the mentoring of Knuble last season, he took a huge step forward in that regard.

And doughless, no one is saying that Fehr = Knuble. They are saying they are similar players, and that in a few years, Fehr might reach that level.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

I don't know why anyone would want to keep Flash over Fehr.

They have different skillsets, but I'll go with the bigger body and pray he doesn't turn out like Drew Stafford.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Gabby has a crush on Flash and Fehr is always in the dog house. It is what it is.

Posted by: Steve_R | June 9, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Salary-wise, Kubina probably won't work, but lets not pretend he isn't an upgrade at the blue line because of some preconceived notion you have.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

lol
ok.

and i stand by it. I think Kubina blows. And its not preconceived. I've watched him on and off over the years (last yr as well) and I don't like the way he plays D overall. And while he may be a slight upgrade (depending on WHO he's replacing), I don't see him as part of the puzzle unless the rest of our D gets upgraded to the point that he ends up being our worst dman.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Gabby has a crush on Flash and Fehr is always in the dog house. It is what it is.

Posted by: Steve_R | June 9, 2010 12:53 PM |

If that really is the case, why did Fehr play all 7 playoff games while Flash didn't?

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Fehr does not = Knuble

Posted by: doughless

Actually, Knuble wasn't Knuble either when he was 24. If you compare stats at age 24, Fehr is more Knuble already than Knuble was himself.

I believe, and I've posted before, Ovi-Backie-Fehr will be one of the top 3 NHL lines for most of the next decade. Pay him now or pay him later. And since you can't have three guys making $25M on one line, Fehr will fir perfectly with the other two.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Timmy, sitting Flash for a game doesn't off set three seasons of Flash getting more ice time than he should and Fehr getting less.

Posted by: Steve_R | June 9, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

If you said all that the first time, then that's okay. But you said he doesn't use his size (which is just false) and you said you'd take him over Schultz. These two statements combined lead me to beleive you don't know enough about Kubina that you think you do.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Interesting that joek443 hasn't weighed in on the Fehr contract amount debate. I'm on record:

1 yr 2.0
2 yrs 4.5
3 yrs 7.5
4 yrs 11.0
5 yrs 15.0
6 yrs 19.5
10 yrs 39.5 (what the heck)

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Timmy, sitting Flash for a game doesn't off set three seasons of Flash getting more ice time than he should and Fehr getting less.

Posted by: Steve_R | June 9, 2010 1:04 PM |

Fehr wasn't playing this style until this season, so how he was treated in previous seasons has no bearing here. Before this season, Flash WAS the better player, and so he deserved more time. Under Knuble's mentoring, Fehr has developed a style that fits him, so he is now the better player for the Caps system - as Boudreau recognized, which is why Fehr got the extra game over Flash. And that's also why I think the lielihood of seeing Flash back next season is very low.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

1 yr 2.0
2 yrs 4.5
3 yrs 7.5
4 yrs 11.0
5 yrs 15.0
6 yrs 19.5
10 yrs 39.5 (what the heck)

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 1:08 PM

I'd have to go with 3 years - we need to make sure he can be the type of player we all think he can be.

10 years... isn't that going a bit far? lol

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

dump flash, belanger, bgordo, bMo

at least 2 of those 4 spots can be filled from Hershey and maybe 3 if you bring up Perreault.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Tom, why would a longer contract pay more per year than a shorter?

Posted by: Steve_R | June 9, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Tom, why would a longer contract pay more per year than a shorter?

Posted by: Steve_R | June 9, 2010 1:11 PM |

You expect Fehr to produce at a higher clip as he matures, so in order to sound enticing to him and his agent, the price goes up. However, you save money in the long run. If Fehr was like 30 years old or something, then the price would go down with more years.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Patrick Sharp would fit in nicely. I think he had 7 shorthanded goals a few seasons ago and he sure has produced in the playoffs for the Hawks. Too bad he will be too expensive for us.

Posted by: jimc93 | June 9, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

dump flash, belanger, bgordo, bMo

at least 2 of those 4 spots can be filled from Hershey and maybe 3 if you bring up Perreault.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 1:11 PM

I'd agree with dumping all 4, but only 2 can be (or need to be) filled from Hershey - Belanger and Gordon. You can use Perrault and either Andrew Gordon or Bourque to fill those 2 spots. The Caps have enough wingers to fill Flash's spot without any problems, and the Bears don't have anyone ready to take #2 center duties - and neither do the Caps.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

@Steve_R

Because you would be buying out prime years where Fehr would be a UFA. I don't Fehr can be a UFA for 3 more years so any contract over 3 years will require paying Fehr more.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Sharp makes what..like 3.5 mil/yr? We can afford him, but I think the Hawks are going to shed other players before they shed Sharp.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

ovy-backs-knuble
Laich-newplayer-Fehr
chimera-MP-AGordon
bradley-steckel-pinizzotto

-------------------------

I'm not a big Chimera fan but keeping him on here because realistically we're not upheaving more than one quarter of our forward lines. This allows you to trade Semin for 1/2 quality players. Either a power forward left winger (in which case Laich slides to center) or a solid young two-way center or Dman.
(And I'm not sold on MP as an NHL center either so that's open to debate but he can probably be serviceable and moved in and out of the lineup as needed)

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

at least we all agree on Sharp. Gritty skilled center with many good yrs left in him. He'd be my #1 target. Dubinsky is more physical but less skilled, I'd target him in a trade but I think the Raggers are pretty high on him.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

ovy-backs-knuble
Laich-newplayer-Fehr
chimera-MP-AGordon
bradley-steckel-pinizzotto

-------------------------

I'm not a big Chimera fan but keeping him on here because realistically we're not upheaving more than one quarter of our forward lines. This allows you to trade Semin for 1/2 quality players. Either a power forward left winger (in which case Laich slides to center) or a solid young two-way center or Dman.
(And I'm not sold on MP as an NHL center either so that's open to debate but he can probably be serviceable and moved in and out of the lineup as needed)

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 1:21 PM

Sounds like a workable lineup to me. Personally, I would try to move Semin for a dman, and get a #2 center from free agency - there are a few this season who are UFA's who would work fine.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

The first three years are RFA years. After that they are UFA years. The ten-year thing was a joke, but it's about what he'd be worth compared to Backie.

Sharp was 3.9 over 4 buying out 3 yrs of UFA. After that he can be expected to get more with next contract. Sharp has three years on Fehr, and I would expect Fehr to get the next three years the 87 goals Sharp has had over the past three. Or maybe a bit lower, so I have Fehr at 3.5 for his 4th year (1st UFA buyout year), a bit under Sharp.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Semin's not going anywhere before the trade deadline, if he goes anywhere at all. And hopefully he doesn't. Sure, he didn't put it all together in the playoffs but he's a young player without a true center. Would love Sharp to center Laich/Semin. Koivu would be another great option. Otherwise, I say go with the kids at center (MP/MJ). Save the cap space for the trade deadline and pick up a few rentals. And at least MP/MJ are true centers and not playing out of position (Flash).

Posted by: brian58 | June 9, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

someone got a list of attractive UFAs?

And it would be interesting to see a list of teams who are starved for offense. They're the teams we could possibly violate in a Semin trade. Off the top of my head - Bruins, Flames, Rangers. All three have an abundance of quality grit. Toronto would never take Semin. MN is a possibility.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Save the cap space for the trade deadline and pick up a few rentals. And at least MP/MJ are true centers and not playing out of position-----------

we need more than rentals. We need to change the core of this team a bit. Adding 3rd and 4th line players at the deadline won't help. That's not the big issue on the team. Its the 2nd line that needs to be vamped.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Semin's not going anywhere before the trade deadline, if he goes anywhere at all. And hopefully he doesn't. Sure, he didn't put it all together in the playoffs but he's a young player without a true center. Would love Sharp to center Laich/Semin. Koivu would be another great option. Otherwise, I say go with the kids at center (MP/MJ). Save the cap space for the trade deadline and pick up a few rentals. And at least MP/MJ are true centers and not playing out of position (Flash).

Posted by: brian58 | June 9, 2010 1:30 PM

In order for the Caps to get to where they need to be this season, Semin pretty much HAS to go. He is undeniably 1st line talent, but the Caps need the money to address bigger needs - like a #1 dman and a #2 center. They could wait until the trade deadline, but the smart thing would be to move him now.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

at least we all agree on Sharp. Gritty skilled center with many good yrs left in him. He'd be my #1 target. Dubinsky is more physical but less skilled, I'd target him in a trade but I think the Raggers are pretty high on him.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 1:25 PM |

I'd rather take Sharp over Dubi, and honestly, I think I'd rather take Callahan over Dubi. Cheaper and plays a role we desperately need. Doesn't really help that 2C void though.

@brian58

We have no cap space to sign guys/trade for guys if we don't trade Semin.


Speaking of, what is going to happen to Nylander? I guess his NMC is done, so we can just move him to the minors now, no problem.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of, what is going to happen to Nylander? I guess his NMC is done, so we can just move him to the minors now, no problem.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 1:36 PM

That would be the best thing to do, unless some other team really wants him.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Is there any trade market for our older AHL players. Seems to me like Giroux/Aucoin could crack the lineup for a lot of NHL teams, just not here. We have such a logjam of prospects and need to clear space for the younger guys to play and develop.

I wonder what it would take to pry that Number 1 pick from Edmonton. Tyler Seguin is NHL ready and would mean that we'd have 4 centers (NB, MP, MJ) including him under 25. That would be a nice problem to have.

Posted by: brian58 | June 9, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Is there any trade market for our older AHL players. Seems to me like Giroux/Aucoin could crack the lineup for a lot of NHL teams, just not here. We have such a logjam of prospects and need to clear space for the younger guys to play and develop.

I wonder what it would take to pry that Number 1 pick from Edmonton. Tyler Seguin is NHL ready and would mean that we'd have 4 centers (NB, MP, MJ) including him under 25. That would be a nice problem to have.

Posted by: brian58 | June 9, 2010 1:44 PM

Giroux is not NHL quality - he's shown that here a number of times. Aucoin can be, as a 3rd or 4th liner, but that's it. Keeping them at Hershey lets them mentor the new prospects.

As for getting that #1 pick - it would be more than it would be worth.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Hall is going to go #1, but to answer the question, it would take a lot to pry either the #1 or #2 pick this year. They are both said to be future franchise players. It drops off a little from there to #3 guy Cam Fowler.

But to answer the question, it will take a lot to get either of those picks. More importantly, if either of those picks get moved, it's for each other.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Ignore the fact I repeated myself in my last comment..haha.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I do not expect to see Nylander even step foot on North American soil this coming fall. I think he knows what would happen to him and he will choose to stay in Sweden.

Posted by: PhilR | June 9, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

I don't imagine the number 1 pick would be worth it unless the scouts rated Seguin as a can't miss, sure thing. But an intriguing possibility, since he would be on an entry level contract, we have a ton of prospects and great core of young players, and could give up this year's and maybe next year's first rounder plus a package of spare parts.

But, its irrelevant because GMGM wouldn't do it in a million years.

Posted by: brian58 | June 9, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

But, its irrelevant because GMGM wouldn't do it in a million years.

Posted by: brian58 | June 9, 2010 1:52 PM |

Actually, it's mostly irrelevant because Edmonton or Boston aren't going to make that move.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I'd rather take Sharp over Dubi, and honestly, I think I'd rather take Callahan over Dubi. Cheaper and plays a role we desperately need. Doesn't really help that 2C void though.
--------------------

center's a harder position to come by than wing so i'd favor Duby but not only for that reason. Andrew Gordon is a Callahan-type of player and they both play RW. While it remains to be seen how effective and quick AG can be at the NHL level, its worth a shot to see what he can do. Then we spend the resource to get us a center.


re: someone's comments about Aucoin and Giroux - I wouldn't waste my breath on either one. They're depth players at best at the nhl level.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry folks, the more and more I think about it Nylander must have photos of somebody in the Caps organization bangin Slapshot and they told him he won't play here again until he turns them over!

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | June 9, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Nylander won't play here again because his skill set doesn't fit the Caps system. He is a good center, good at holding onto the puck (especially by skating in circles...), but doesn't have the offensive mindset to join in on a rush.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Tom - you scale on Fehr is ok until you get up to 5yrs. I might be able to accept your 4yr deal but signin Fehr to a 5yr contract at 3M a yr is crazy. I understand all the stats you guys are throwing out and I too believe that there is still some upside to him but the reality is you can't pay a guy on what you "think" he'll become. Right now he is earning 700k yr. He didn't score 40 or 50 goals this yr and may never. You could be right that if you sign him at 3M for 5yrs at the end of it you may have gotten your monies worth but to me with Eric Fehr that's a hellofa risk. We will only know in 5yrs but no way do I do that. I don't think you're being fiscally responsible but that's just my opinion.

I'll go on record and say I think he'll get a 3yr deal at 1.9M, 2.25 and 2.5, somewhere in that neighborhood. If he does happen to outperform the contract I find it hard to believe he'd go to the biggest offer at an UFA. I bet we'd get a hometown discount and he'd stay here. Just my thoughts.

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | June 9, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

pokerface, whenever you sign a player to a longterm contract, you are paying him on what you think he'll be. There's no guarantee a player will continue to produce at the rate they have. Look at Cheechoo, for an extreme example. 56 goals in one season, never broke 40 any other season.

The point is, if the Caps think Fehr will turn out to be the player we all think he can be, than it is worth $2.5-3M/yr to keep him. For the record, I'd do a 3-year contract - I think that would work best for all involved.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

pokerface: You are giving him basically a Laich deal adjusted for inflation. Not bad math. Laich's third year, this year coming up, is $2.4M. Let's say they sign Laich to an extra two years extension. What is he worth based on comparables? Maybe two extra at $3.5M each. That makes five years at $13.2M, and all's I'm saying is Fehr is a teensy bit of where Laich was when Laich signed two years ago, that plus 8% for cap increase that you must factor in.

Laich + 5% + 8% (Cap increase) = $3M/yr for 5 yrs

That's if you believe Laich's next deal would be $3.5M for two years if he signed now. There are comparables to support that I think. If Sharp is 3.9, is Laich 3.5? If Penner is 4.25, is Laich 3.5? If Tim Connolly is 4.5, is Laich 3.5?

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Timmy - RichPhil - TomSoCal

all good points. imo George has to sign both Fehr and Schultz, hopefully to 3-5 year deals.

somewhat off topic, imo Varly is as good if not better than both Niemi and Creighton provided he stays healthy. Do you gamble and go with Varly and Neuvirth next year? it appears that formula is going with $$ on the blue line.

Also I'd bet that Flash and Fehr can cover Semin's goal production by committee and we could probably land good market deal for Semin now.

Thoughts?

Posted by: pch49 | June 9, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

"Look, we're not going to blow anything up or panic. We've built a responsible financial model here and you don't win Stanley Cups by winning the free agency battle. We feel very strongly about our team, we had a record-setting year last season and we have a very strong core that doesn't need to be tampered with. We're always looking to improve our team and we'll look at players here or there if it makes sense. But we are very proud of our drafts and we have some strong competition at Hershey that should push for roster spots next season. We made some serious strides this past season and we feel that we were very close to making a long run. And had we been able to solve an incredible goalie our entire organization feels we could've been very dangerous. Sometimes things aren't meant to be. But we do not plan to be a major player in free agency."

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

@pch49:
If I'm GMGM, the only way I trade Semin is it it bring back a bonafide #1 or #1B physical, mobile, Defensive defenseman. He's too valueable to be the big player in a trade for smaller players. You have to get something of equal value and for Semin, that argueably is a D to play and dominate next to Green!

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 9, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Also I'd bet that Flash and Fehr can cover Semin's goal production by committee and we could probably land good market deal for Semin now.

Thoughts?

Posted by: pch49 | June 9, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

remember, we don't need to cover every goal that was scored the previous year. We could score 70 less goals next season and still have a great year and better postseason. You can never look at trades simply in terms of how many goals you're giving up or how many you're getting back.

They don't need Flash or Semin on this team provided they make the right deals.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

The problem with a guy like Fehr is offer sheets. No way he signs a deal for anything below $2 million per when he and his agent know offer sheets are coming. If some GM offers Fehr $3 million per year do the Caps match or walk away?

Posted by: ablake70 | June 9, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

cstanton: I'm trying to figure out to whom we should attribute that quote. I'll take three guesses.

1) Genghis Khan. Ooops, he DID blow things up.

2) Ken Lay. Oops, he didn't have a responsible financial model.

3) George McPhee???

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

"As St. Louis Blues coach Brian Sutter said about Brett Hull, I can always get someone to play defense, I can't always get someone to score 86 goals."

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

"Aucoin and Giroux - I wouldn't waste my breath on either one. They're depth players at best at the nhl level."

Same thing was said about Emminger and Lepisto when they were with the Caps. Both turned out to be a bit more....

Posted by: pch49 | June 9, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

ablake70: The Caps don't walk away from $3M/yr because comp is only a #2 pick and all our #2 picks fail. A $3.2M offer or thereabouts and it becomes a #1 and a #3 pick and at that point it is a hard choice. Even a #1 though is a 2011 pick and that player likely doesn't help until 2014 or 2015 and we need the production now. Spending all this time to develop a good player and let him walk (unless a ridiculous salary) doesn't build a winner.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

You have to get something of equal value and for Semin, that argueably is a D to play and dominate next to Green!

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 9, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

someone like a Shea Weber/Brent Seabrook type, right? well, it ain't gonna happen. Semin's trade value isn't likely to be that high. Any team who pulls the trigger on a Semin trade is taking a big risk and they know it. You could probably get a Regehr. Maybe a Doug Murray but I doubt that too only because the Sharks don't need a player like Semin. You have to find a team that needs goals desperately. That narrows the field down considerably. Then you have to filter those teams down even further to those that have players that you want back. Now the field is only a few teams (maybe 3 or 4). Then you take it a step further and figure out which teams can afford Semin. Now you're down to 1 or 2. Then you figure out which teams would he be a good fit for?

thats where his trade value falls.

now if you do a 3way trade, that expands the field of possible destinations and raises his value a bit.

to me, a more realistic trade scenario is Semin for 2 good players, not great ones. A strong 2nd pair defenseman and a 2nd line center I think would be more than fair return for him.

Or get creative and do a package deal.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

The problem with a guy like Fehr is offer sheets. No way he signs a deal for anything below $2 million per when he and his agent know offer sheets are coming. If some GM offers Fehr $3 million per year do the Caps match or walk away?

-------------

the Canucks signed David Backes to a 3 yr offer sheet last offseason at 2.5 mil per season. Backes is significantly better than Eric Fehr. No team is going to offer Fehr 3 mil per season. I'll eat my left nut.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Same thing was said about Emminger and Lepisto when they were with the Caps. Both turned out to be a bit more....
--------------------------------

i wouldn't take either of em back and I was an Eminger fan. I'll take Eminger over Sami and then only if we use him to replace a Poti. Eminger is mobile and aggressive but he still needs to bulk up more and improve his positioning. Love the trade to get Carlson of course. But either way, we don't miss either of those 2 players on our blueline. Glen Metropolit turned into a situational NHLer but I don't miss him either.

Giroux doesn't really interest any NHL team. I'm pretty sure he's had to clear waivers each time and there have been no takers. Aucoin is there as depth but he gets pushed off the puck too easily. He's too small. He's barely 5ft9. Could he sub in as a 3rd line center? sure, for a few games.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Cstanton1 - I suspect you're right re: Semin's trade possibilities. Personally, I'd love to see something like a Niklas Kronwall from Detroit, but doubt that would happen...

Posted by: pch49 | June 9, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

cstanton: The we'll be able to call you Mr. Planters.

He won't get three because the club will do the two- or three-year deals which are lower value.

BTW, over the next ten years, Fehr will get more goals than Backes. That's a 50/50 proposition.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

someone like a Shea Weber/Brent Seabrook type, right? well, it ain't gonna happen. Semin's trade value isn't likely to be that high. Any team who pulls the trigger on a Semin trade is taking a big risk and they know it. You could probably get a Regehr. Maybe a Doug Murray but I doubt that too only because the Sharks don't need a player like Semin. You have to find a team that needs goals desperately. That narrows the field down considerably. Then you have to filter those teams down even further to those that have players that you want back. Now the field is only a few teams (maybe 3 or 4). Then you take it a step further and figure out which teams can afford Semin. Now you're down to 1 or 2. Then you figure out which teams would he be a good fit for?

thats where his trade value falls.

now if you do a 3way trade, that expands the field of possible destinations and raises his value a bit.

to me, a more realistic trade scenario is Semin for 2 good players, not great ones. A strong 2nd pair defenseman and a 2nd line center I think would be more than fair return for him.

Or get creative and do a package deal.

Posted by: cstanton1

Sharks may lose Marleau, if they do, they will want a scorer. Murray is a possibility.

Once Kovalchik signs, hopefully, he will resign with Jersey, Semins value will sky rocket.

Webber, Doughty - they are untouchable. But they each have a counterpart - Suter and Johnson. If LA misses out on both Kovalchuk and Marleau, they will be in dire straits. It looks like Frolov is going to the KHL. Nashville needs scoring. They have Sulzer and Ellis ready to step in at D.

Edmonton maybe as well. Last year they offered Penner, Cogliano and Smid for Heatley. Word is they may do something similiar for Spezza. Edmonton is going to be a player this year.

July 1st, all the dominos will fall.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 9, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

If the Caps ever did try and trade with Toronto, I think a great move would be to trade Semin for Luke Schenn and Luca Caputi. In the brief time Caputi played at the end of last season he looked very good! Big power winger with a mean streak. Very raw but looked much better than did an Eric Fehr when he first got called up.

You don't get a center back. But you get a solid young physical blueliner who can at least cover on a 2nd pairing. And you get back a big nasty forward with a scoring touch. He just wears down defenseman with his size and he skates well.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't want Jack Johnson at all. Ryan Suter, yes.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

BTW, over the next ten years, Fehr will get more goals than Backes. That's a 50/50 proposition.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

its not just the goals. Backes is a strong all-around player. At least twice as physical as Fehr is also. Vanc didn't just go chasing him because he had a scoring touch.


"Sharks may lose Marleau, if they do, they will want a scorer. Murray is a possibility. "

i thought about that exact thing actually before I posted. The other caveat is that the Sharks have a young physical blueliner prospect in waiting in Nick Petrecki. So that could make Murray slightly less expendable. But I think not. The Sharks have enough balanced scoring. They don't need Semin that desperately to where they'd give up Doug Murray.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

oops, i meant that could make Murray MORE expendable.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Luca Caputi is nothing special.

He is all that was needed to trade for Ponikarovsky and we all know how good of a player Ponikarovsky was. Well, most of us.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

I think a great move would be to trade Semin for Luke Schenn and Luca Caputi.
_________

I'd pull the trigger on that. Schenn's been in the doghouse in TO sometimes, and I think his upside alone is worth that trade.

They'd probably want to keep Caputi though and offer up some other less-seasoned prospect.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

whats up with Jack anyway. I thought he'd be more dominating with all that hype. I think the Kings were hoping he'd grow bigger than he's turned into. Bet they'd like Tim Gleason back.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

He is all that was needed to trade for Ponikarovsky and we all know how good of a player Ponikarovsky was. Well, most of us.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 3:59 PM |

I'd take him over Poni, for sure.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

@ tominsocal1

I would pay Fehr between $1.75-$2.25 mil per. With the salary cap and the goalies needing a new deal, I wouldn't give him much more. What do you think Schultz should get?

@cstanton1

The Caps have too many young dman now, they don't need more. Murray would be a nice addition.

And for whoever thinks the Preds would trade Webber/Suter for Semin, think Radulov. Besides, they have a self imposed salary cap and won't be able to afford him.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 9, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't want Jack Johnson at all. Ryan Suter, yes.

Posted by: richmondphil

I think Semin for Suter is doable. Plus, you save $2.5m against the cap. Plenty of room for a center.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 9, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton, and others

Maybe for the rights to Kulemin? I hear his RFA talks have stalled, but I also hear he wants 3 mil/yr..which is a bit much. Maybe the Caps can convince to talk him down a bit.

I think he's skilled enough to appeal to GMGM and BB but he's also big and not afraid to throw his weight around. Plays defense too.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

A team that is likely to take Semin in a trade is a team who just needs an offensive gun or two from making the playoffs. For example, take Minnesota, Florida, NY Isles, or Toronto, teams that do not have explosive offensive players. Semin would quickly crack the first line.

However, look at the Leafs and Isles. The Isles and Leafs are rebuilding a young core of players, and who needs Semin when you have Tavares, Moulson and Bailey as your future stars? On the Leafs, you have Bozak, Kulemin, Kessel, and the upcoming Nazem Kadri. In conclusion, why would any of these teams waste any prospects or veterans on Semin when there are a ton of offensive free agents out there who are better, or aren't known to injure themselves frequently.

The Isles are building the right way, and Richard Petty is letting Brian Burke do his job to make Toronto a winning franchise again.

Posted by: hockeynightincanada | June 9, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Luca Caputi is nothing special.

He is all that was needed to trade for Ponikarovsky and we all know how good of a player Ponikarovsky was. Well, most of us.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 3:59 PM

really? i'd love to get your professional critique on Poni as a player. You harp on him being such a slug all the time, so spill it.

and have you ever watched Caputi play or are you just basing his worth on your contempt for AP? I'm guessing the latter.
If that's the case, John Carlson must suck too if all we had to give up was Eminger for the chance to draft him. Sorry, I'm just using "SGM logic."

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Semin might go to a team like the Islanders, who need salary to hit the floor. The bigger question is who do they really have who's attractive besides Okposo, Moulson, Tavares, who aren't going anywhere?

Streit maybe?

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

"Maybe for the rights to Kulemin? I hear his RFA talks have stalled, but I also hear he wants 3 mil/yr..which is a bit much. Maybe the Caps can convince to talk him down a bit.

I think he's skilled enough to appeal to GMGM and BB but he's also big and not afraid to throw his weight around. Plays defense too."

I doubt the Leafs will let him walk. Brian Burke isn't stupid, and I think he's finally put a young strong squad together. Rickard Wallin is their oldest forward at 30 years of age. I'm sure Burke may add a forward or two, but nobody will be taking Kulemin's spot.

We can dream though can't we?

Posted by: hockeynightincanada | June 9, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

@hockeynight

Burke came out and verbally attacked Kulemin and his agent though about wanting so much money. TO fans seem to not he opposed to offering his rights quickly in trade proposals.

I'd love him in a Caps uniform.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

you've been on the Kulemin bandwagon for a while so I'll defer. I don't know much about him. Actually I know nothing about him. But if he's an aggressive skilled two way player I'd be more than willing to part with #28.

to hockeynight: good point on the Leafs and Isles. Agreed that both have strong young prospects and probably not a dire need for a Semin type. I was thinking Tor only because Brian Burke needs to wrangle in that fanbase and get them excited so an explosively dynamic player like Semin could give that town a real boost.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

My last statement was made with a light hearted tone. I actually do not know too much about Caputi at all. But Ponikarovsky is not a good player.

That's why he was traded(and contract status), why he produced nothing with Malkin as his center, and why he was benched during the playoffs in Pittsburgh.

I'm sorry, if you are a wing and are unable to crack the Pens lineup, you are not very good.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

A team that is likely to take Semin in a trade is a team who just needs an offensive gun or two from making the playoffs. For example, take Minnesota, Florida, NY Isles, or Toronto, teams that do not have explosive offensive players. Semin would quickly crack the first line.

However, look at the Leafs and Isles. The Isles and Leafs are rebuilding a young core of players, and who needs Semin when you have Tavares, Moulson and Bailey as your future stars? On the Leafs, you have Bozak, Kulemin, Kessel, and the upcoming Nazem Kadri. In conclusion, why would any of these teams waste any prospects or veterans on Semin when there are a ton of offensive free agents out there who are better, or aren't known to injure themselves frequently.

The Isles are building the right way, and Richard Petty is letting Brian Burke do his job to make Toronto a winning franchise again.

Posted by: hockeynightincanada | June 9, 2010 4:06 PM

Any team who is one big offensive weapon away from the playoffs would be willing to take Semin because there are only two free agents who are better goal scorers - Marleau and Kovalchuk. And unlike Kovalchuk, Semin plays defense.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

@hockeynight and cstanton

Teams like the Isles still need to hit the salary floor. I'm not sure about other teams who need to, but I know the Isles are one of them after they shed some older free agents and keep Witt in the AHL.

Some info on Kulemin; 2nd on TO with 136 hits (behind Schenn), 24 giveaways to 52 takeaways (which is awesome). He's big and physical..he's not an in-your-face, gritty Carcillo type of guy (only 16 PIMs), but he'll hit you and take a hit to make a play.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Cstanton - your opinion of Semin's value is much lower than the GM's across the league. Regardless of the down falls, how many 40+ goal scrores are there in the league that are in their mid to younger 20's? Not a lot. Semin is an elite talent and 1 that would bring big return with at least 1 elite player coming back our way.

Granted rumors are rumors and they rarely come true but Hockeybuzz recently stated that Semin would be traded for a goalie who was believed to be "untouchable". When you classify "untouchable" it's an elite player. There are teams out there who will give up "elite" defenders or goalies to add 40goals to their team and improve their PP greatly. We're in the opposite position where we can give up 40goals a yr and still be ok due to our offensive depth. There are more teams that are in the defensively rich posture then the offensively rich.

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | June 9, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Semin might go to a team like the Islanders, who need salary to hit the floor. The bigger question is who do they really have who's attractive besides Okposo, Moulson, Tavares, who aren't going anywhere?

Streit maybe?

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

you want a 2nd line center in the mold that we're talking about - Josh Bailey.

And they have a very nice young defensive prospect they just signed up named Travis Hamonic. Good skater, great open ice hitter and plays the PP. Actually he's an offensive dman with a real edge to his game and nice size. Came off a great WHL playoffs and will be turning pro. Bailey could step right into the lineup. Hamonic may be 2 yrs away but they're going to give him a chance to crack the lineup next season. He's like a John Carlson.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

@pokerfacel208

I've already posted this a few times, but will do so once again to provide some expert testimony in support of your attorney argument.

As St. Louis Blues coach Brian Sutter said about Brett Hull, "I can always get someone to play defense, I can't always get someone to score 86 goals."

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Cstanton - your opinion of Semin's value is much lower than the GM's across the league. Regardless of the down falls, how many 40+ goal scrores are there in the league that are in their mid to younger 20's? Not a lot. Semin is an elite talent and 1 that would bring big return with at least 1 elite player coming back our way.

------------------------

and how many of those 40 goal scorers have his baggage incl the fact he may bolt to his motherland? If you think you're getting back one of the top defensemen in hockey for Semin, dream away. I'd love for his trade value to be as high as possible. But I don't think it is because he's not a "regular" 40goal guy. There are other elements in play. And enough teams have been burned with big contract highly skilled players (see Jagr) that teams are more wary of them now than in past yrs. Esp w/the salary cap in play.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

Yeah, but why would the Isles want to give up any of their young prospects?

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Any team who is one big offensive weapon away from the playoffs would be willing to take Semin because there are only two free agents who are better goal scorers - Marleau and Kovalchuk. And unlike Kovalchuk, Semin plays defense.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

and like that Kovy trade proved, trading for an elite one-dimensional player can prove to be a real bust. Atlanta got better, Devils did not.

And I don't agree that Semin plays defense enough to say that he's a reliable defensive player in the least. He makes risky passes, stupid turnovers, doesn't play well along the boards for the most part. He can make some spectacular hustle plays on the backcheck no question, but thats only part of what it takes to be a solid defensive forward.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

What baggage?

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton

Yeah, but why would the Isles want to give up any of their young prospects?

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

to get an established scorer back i would presume. Take pressure off Tavares etc. I don't know. Just spitballing here.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

What baggage?

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

rofl! you're right. Semin is baggage-less. I wonder where the perception comes from then that he's "enigmatic"

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Some info on Kulemin; 2nd on TO with 136 hits (behind Schenn), 24 giveaways to 52 takeaways (which is awesome). He's big and physical..he's not an in-your-face, gritty Carcillo type of guy (only 16 PIMs), but he'll hit you and take a hit to make a play.
------------

sounds dee-lish! Its ok that he's not abrasive. That element can come from somewhere else. A player like Bfyuglien for all his heavy hitting etc is not that abrasive either. He'll pummel you but do it with a smile. He doesn't go looking for confrontation.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

and like that Kovy trade proved, trading for an elite one-dimensional player can prove to be a real bust. Atlanta got better, Devils did not.

And I don't agree that Semin plays defense enough to say that he's a reliable defensive player in the least. He makes risky passes, stupid turnovers, doesn't play well along the boards for the most part. He can make some spectacular hustle plays on the backcheck no question, but thats only part of what it takes to be a solid defensive forward.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 4:28 PM

I never said "reliable defensive player", or even close. But Semin's far from one-dimensional - which is what Kovalchuk is. The Caps scored the same number of SH goals as the PP goals they gave up while Semin was on the ice this year. He had 61 takeaways (but did have 58 giveaways). The defensive plays he makes tend to more than make up for the dumb plays he makes.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Why does he have that reputation?

Do you know anything about his work ethic, how committed he is to being a good hockey player, how seriously he takes his profession? You do not have any knowledge on any of this(neither do I). That's why it is inappropriate to say he has baggage.

You have said before that he is too "Russian-centric". Why do you blame a person who is new to this country for spending time with others from the country he was born in and has many family and friends in? Isn't that what almost all American immigrants have done over time. Why do you then kill Semin for that?

You have absolutely nothing to support your statement "he has baggage". None.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

sgm3: Really, he has no baggage? Years back he refused to go to the AHL to learn the NA style of game. He stayed in Russia when the Caps wanted him here. He has been around for a long time, in the org, and has not learned English or even attempted to interact with the media. As a long, long time fan he seems to not give a rats @$$ about being here and it seems Ovie is the only reason he is here. Perception cannot be ignored and the man does not talk, nada. Sorry, he made this bed and fans are making him sleep in it.

Posted by: flee001 | June 9, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

hehe, no baggage. If you could convince other GMs of that then maybe we can get back some real blue-chippers!

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

One more thing on Semin. He is incredibly talented and amazing to watch on ice. His trade rumors should not be tied to personality and performance at all. Any trade talk has to center around his future cost. The Caps cannot, will not commit 6-7m a year to Semin. Having two wingers commanding 16-17m of a cap makes no sense for a serious cup contender.

Posted by: flee001 | June 9, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Do you know anything about his work ethic
-------------------------------------------

hehe, work ethic. You make him sound like Kono.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

i wonder sgm, where do YOU think the perception of Semin being a lazy listless moody sometimes-selfish player come about? i mean, why didn't Backstrom get that label? or Ovy? I've heard national broadcasters allude to those things re: Semin as well. So it didn't originate on THIS board. And it didn't originate with ME. Many different observers including fans and media have independently come up with that perception. Yet you don't think there's any validity to it.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

sgm3: Really, he has no baggage? Years back he refused to go to the AHL to learn the NA style of game. He stayed in Russia when the Caps wanted him here. He has been around for a long time, in the org, and has not learned English or even attempted to interact with the media. As a long, long time fan he seems to not give a rats @$$ about being here and it seems Ovie is the only reason he is here. Perception cannot be ignored and the man does not talk, nada. Sorry, he made this bed and fans are making him sleep in it.

Posted by: flee001 | June 9, 2010 4:54 PM

Quite a bit of what you said there is wrong. He does know a fair amount of English - I've seen some short interviews where he speaks English. He doesn't interact with the media much because he's shy, not because he doesn't care. Give the guy a break - he's from a tiny Russian town, and got thrown into an enormous city where everyone spoke a language he didn't know. That would give anyone culture shock.

Does Semin have some issues? Sure. Are they ones that affect how he plays? No.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

@ flee001

Pavel Datsyuk doesn't speak English either and he's been here longer. I can't think of too many teams that would pass on him.

Also, Johannson has a Caps or SEL deal. Does he have baggage too because he won't play in the AHL?

But this is a pointless argument. We will see when or if Semin is traded.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 9, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

@flee001

Patrick Kane beat up a taxi drive and was charged with assault. How does he not have more "baggage" than Semin.

Also, your pereption is completely different than mine (which is fine). I look at him as a quiet person. Again, why is that bad or wrong? He doesn't like to talk to the media, why does that means he has baggage?

He speaks enough English to communicate with his teammates which is all he needs to do. I don't think that when a player is worrisome about talking to the media in a 2nd language is baggage.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Mackan speaks some English though

Posted by: Steve_R | June 9, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Ah, love me a good debate. Think Semin would take a 5-6m yr hometown discount since we now how to deal with all his baggage?

Posted by: flee001 | June 9, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

If those announcers are basing their assumptions on nothing but preconceived stereotypes, then yes, I do not give them any credibility.

If those announcers were basing those comments on investigating and speaking to insiders and gathering factual information to reach their conclusions then it would be credible.

However, most sports announcers now do nothing but make arguments, assumptions, and accusations based on little to no knowledge of a subject(i.e. Wilbon). It's the age we live in now.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

what about his ON-ICE baggage.

That's what I care most about. He can speak svengali for all I care as long as it doesn't offend his teammates.

let me pull up that statement again from the Wash Post. It sums up EXACTLY how I view Semin.

"Through five games, he has no goals and one assist, and his propensity for seemingly drifting in and out of consciousness has only fueled the story line."

that to me is his lingering legacy here. His lackadaisical attitude on the ice. His many worthless shifts punctuated by a few brilliant ones. His propensity to take stupid penalties where he'll lose the puck and then stick his stick out and pull someone down. There are many other on-ice qualities about him I dislike. But those are just some of the bigger issues I have with him.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Esa Tikkanen spoke Tikkanese.

Does that count as baggage?

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

cstanton, that was exactly what sgm was talking about - reporters writing stuff who have no idea what they're talking about. The majority of Semin's shifts are good ones - and in the playoffs, he was trying to carry his entire line. Does he take dumb offensive zone penalties? Sure, but it's always when he is trying to make a play.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

If those announcers are basing their assumptions on nothing but preconceived stereotypes, then yes, I do not give them any credibility
-----------------

so where did those preconceived stereotypes originate?

and by the way, there are many preconceived stereotypes that are right on the money. The word "stereotype" doesn't necessarily mean its not true.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Well said cstanton.

There's no questioning Semin's talent, but his desire and hockey smarts seem to be M.I.A. frequently.

Posted by: Steve_R | June 9, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Esa Tikkanen spoke Tikkanese.
Does that count as baggage?

Posted by: tominsocal1

Nope, his baggage is missing an open net ... still bothers me

Posted by: flee001 | June 9, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

cstanton, that was exactly what sgm was talking about - reporters writing stuff who have no idea what they're talking about. The majority of Semin's shifts are good ones - and in the playoffs, he was trying to carry his entire line. Does he take dumb offensive zone penalties? Sure, but it's always when he is trying to make a play.

-------------------------

timmy, how do you know this reporter doesn't know what he's talking about. Sounds like you're making some preconceived notions without any proof. Why discredit that reporter? And what that reporter said had NO bearing on how I feel about Semin. It just confirmed for me that many other people feel the same way and have observed exactly what I have observed. Independent of any "stereotypes"

what type of proof would you be happy with short of a signed confession from Semin admitting to his flaws?

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Rob Blake retired. Future HHOF, ya think?

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

cstanton, the whole thing about Semin being "moody" came from the first couple years he was here, when he was struggling to adjust to a culture and lifestyle vastly different from anything he had known. Take that problem and put it on a shy person like Semin, and what you get is someone who withdraws. It doesn't mean he has problems, it just means he didn't adjust too well to a major lifestyle change.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Does he take dumb offensive zone penalties? Sure, but it's always when he is trying to make a play.
-----------------

so we should just let all our players hook and hold their way into oblivion under the guise of trying to make a play? come on timmy, you seem smarter than that. Make a better argument for Semin's dumb repeated penalties. To me, most of those penalties have stemmed from FRUSTRATION. Like when he picked up the puck and threw it. He gets frustrated and flustered. And he takes dumb penalties for it. In my book, thats considered SELFISH.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:20 PM | Report abuse

timmy, how do you know this reporter doesn't know what he's talking about. Sounds like you're making some preconceived notions without any proof. Why discredit that reporter? And what that reporter said had NO bearing on how I feel about Semin. It just confirmed for me that many other people feel the same way and have observed exactly what I have observed. Independent of any "stereotypes"

what type of proof would you be happy with short of a signed confession from Semin admitting to his flaws?

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:17 PM

I know he doesn't know what he's talking about because I watch Caps games. What you see on the ice with Semin is far from what that reporter was saying. The proof I believe is what I see. With Semin, he got a bad reputation his first couple years here, and people like you hold on to that, instead of seeing what is actually there.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Well said cstanton.

There's no questioning Semin's talent, but his desire and hockey smarts seem to be M.I.A. frequently.

Posted by: Steve_R | June 9, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Steve, did you form that thought independently or were you the victim of a mass social hypnosis perpetrated by the Order of the Semin-haters?

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

so we should just let all our players hook and hold their way into oblivion under the guise of trying to make a play? come on timmy, you seem smarter than that. Make a better argument for Semin's dumb repeated penalties. To me, most of those penalties have stemmed from FRUSTRATION. Like when he picked up the puck and threw it. He gets frustrated and flustered. And he takes dumb penalties for it. In my book, thats considered SELFISH.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:20 PM

cstanton, as I said, they are DUMB penalties - so of course we shouldn't teach players to do that. That was one of the most idiotic statements I have heard you make.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Some of you folks have Semin-nella poisoning from drinking bad vodka.

Posted by: flee001 | June 9, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Some of you folks have Semin-nella poisoning from drinking bad vodka.

Posted by: flee001 | June 9, 2010 5:25 PM

Yeah, like you and cstanton.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

the preconceived stereotypes about a certain group of people usually originate with some truth, then some exaggeration, and then followed by many people trying to find any reason, no matter how hollow or misconstrued, to fit people from that group into that stereotype.

It is absolutely true that just because it is a stereotype does not mean it isn't true of a particular individual. But the presence of a stereotype alone, that is only supported by hollow accusations is not enough to show an individual falls into a specific stereotype.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

I know he doesn't know what he's talking about because I watch Caps games. What you see on the ice with Semin is far from what that reporter was saying. The proof I believe is what I see. With Semin, he got a bad reputation his first couple years here, and people like you hold on to that, instead of seeing what is actually there.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

lol, so now you're saying the only reason I form my opinion on Semin is because I'm not smart enough to distinguish between an alleged bad reputation he initially garnered vs his actual on-ice play?

so basically, Semin gets a bad rep (undeservedly according to you), and then idiots like myself read about it somewhere and then hold onto this preconceived notion and actively ignore what he actually does on the ice?

wow. If you're gonna rest your case on that, you lose.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

lol, so now you're saying the only reason I form my opinion on Semin is because I'm not smart enough to distinguish between an alleged bad reputation he initially garnered vs his actual on-ice play?

so basically, Semin gets a bad rep (undeservedly according to you), and then idiots like myself read about it somewhere and then hold onto this preconceived notion and actively ignore what he actually does on the ice?

wow. If you're gonna rest your case on that, you lose.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:29 PM

No, I'm saying that the reputation that Semin got (partially deservedly, partially not) has skewed your view of him to the point where you don't give him credit for what he does right, and exaggerate what he does wrong. And that is supported by the evidence.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

cstanton, as I said, they are DUMB penalties - so of course we shouldn't teach players to do that. That was one of the most idiotic statements I have heard you make.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

well obviously I'm an idiot. I form all my own opinions based on what a player's reputation was a few yrs ago.


next week we'll tackle the preconceived notion that Joe Corvo can't play defense very well. I wonder if the same mysterious entity who perpetrated the horribly inaccurate Semin rumors also started the Corvo rumors.

week #3 will the topic of does Mike Nylander REALLY skate in circles or is he also a victim of the "preconceived" virus?

week 4 will be preconception v premature ejaculation. Which is worse?!

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:35 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

You know who else commits dumb penalties when they get frusturated? Pronger, Crosby, and Getzlaf to name a few.

Are they selfish?

I'm not excusing dumb penalties and players should be held accountable for their actions on the ice. Semin commits too many offensive zone penalties. That definitely goes onto his list of negatives as a hockey player. But it doesn't mean he has "baggage" or he doesn't try or he is selfish.

But calling one player "selfish" for a dumb penalty and then calling a seperate player "gritty" for a same penalty is dumb.

Your arguments are stretched so thin that they cannot carry any weight.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse

cstanton, if you want to prove any of what you're saying about Semin, it's simple: facts and stats. Oddly enough, I haven't seen you reply to any of the stats I have put out there yet.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse

I seriously don't see Fehr on the topline in 2 years, in any team. I'm still not keen on him as our #2 LW/RW.

He has improved, yes, but has been playing on a 3rd line, which main job hasn't been to score, therefore has he been playing with players with a defensive mindset, hence the good defensive stats.

And regarding the offensive stats, is pretty much the same thing, he has been playing against #5-6 Defencemans.

Yes, he will play with better offensive players, but against better defence, so i expect him to do pretty much what he did this year, not more. He needs to be faster, and throw his weight around more.

Definatley not worth more than Laich, IMHO.

Posted by: Walle | June 9, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

i think there are some (including nhl gm's, coaches, players, media & fans) that will never give semin any kind of break because he chose to return to russia (during the lockout) rather than play in the ahl.
at the time he was pretty much here all by himself - i don't blame him for not wanting to stay.
his reluctance to speak with the (english) media only fuels (imo) the notion that he doesn't care.

i don't think semin has 'baggage' - but he has a different personality than most foreign (euro's) players. any team that may be interested in him would have to take this into account.
he does not appear to be a disruption in the locker room, nor does he appear to be a leader.
at any given time on the ice he can be the most skilled player making others look silly in any zone. the other side of that is he can appear to be lazy or not interested during his shifts.

i've said before that if he had ovi's drive to be the best - he would be more valuable than ovi.

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Another dead horse gets beaten unmercifully.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse

well obviously I'm an idiot. I form all my own opinions based on what a player's reputation was a few yrs ago.


next week we'll tackle the preconceived notion that Joe Corvo can't play defense very well. I wonder if the same mysterious entity who perpetrated the horribly inaccurate Semin rumors also started the Corvo rumors.

week #3 will the topic of does Mike Nylander REALLY skate in circles or is he also a victim of the "preconceived" virus?

week 4 will be preconception v premature ejaculation. Which is worse?!

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:35 PM

How about making posts that have some sort of reason to them. Does Corvo play defense well? Not really - which can be seen from watching him play. Does Nylander skate circles? Yes - which you can seen from watching him play. Does Semin skip shifts all the time, as cstanton would have us all believe? No - which can be seen from watching him play.

BTW, I never said you were an idiot - I said your post was idiotic. You really need to stop that whole thing of changing people's words all the time.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 5:42 PM | Report abuse

I think the discussion is getting a bit off-topic; we all can agree that Semin should be traded, and we all agree on what. His value is certainly not worth a Weber or Doughty, franchise defenders. In that I agree with cstanton1. However, hypothetically if Suter were to become available, I would like to think Semin would be able to net him. In that, I agree that Semin should be enough to net a 1st pairing defender, should a team with an attractive defender decide to need Semin.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

No, I'm saying that the reputation that Semin got (partially deservedly, partially not) has skewed your view of him to the point where you don't give him credit for what he does right, and exaggerate what he does wrong. And that is supported by the evidence.
--------------------

what evidence? what evidence do you have that my opinion of him is incorrect? Here are some of my criticisms of him again briefly. Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary:

- he takes an inordinate # of unnecessary penalties via the hook or the hold, many stemming from his frustration at either a recent turnover or the fact he's too lazy to move his feet so he sticks out his wand

- he takes a lot of shifts off (have fun disproving that one)

- he rarely if ever finishes his checks even though he's certainly got the size to do it and when he's motivated he can be an effective hitter

- he doesn't engage a player in the defensive zone along the boards, he prefers to play a few feet away and use his stick to free the puck (low % play)

- he has few intangible qualities like leadership, grit. His contributions are mainly the sum of his statistics. When he's not scoring, he is rarely contributing. The only real nonmeasurable quality he does contribute is to give us a 2nd scoring threat on a line that isn't Ovechkin's

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Don't get me wrong, I still think he (Fehr) is good, and was one our best players in the playoffs (not saying that much). I just don't see "that" much potential in him. Not in the direction "the new" NHL is going...

Posted by: Walle | June 9, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

How about making posts that have some sort of reason to them. Does Corvo play defense well? Not really - which can be seen from watching him play. Does Nylander skate circles? Yes - which you can seen from watching him play. Does Semin skip shifts all the time, as cstanton would have us all believe? No - which can be seen from watching him play.
------

helloooo in there, anyone home timmy?

so you agree that Nylander skates in circles because you've seen that. You agree Corvo can't play D because you've seen that. Well gee go figure, think its possible that perhaps I feel Semin skips shifts because I HAVE SEEN THAT?!?!?!?!?!?

no instead in your obtuseness you assume that I only dislike Semin based on some rap he got hung on him a few yrs ago. I am insulted. You have insulted me my friend.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:48 PM | Report abuse

However, hypothetically if Suter were to become available, I would like to think Semin would be able to net him.
----------------------------------

agreed


"BTW, I never said you were an idiot - I said your post was idiotic. You really need to stop that whole thing of changing people's words all the time."

I never said you called me an idiot. I called myself that. Because you implied it with your statement that the reason I bag on Semin is because I'm using someone else's past skewed opinion of him to form my own. That would make me an idiot, would it not?

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

- he takes an inordinate # of unnecessary penalties via the hook or the hold, many stemming from his frustration at either a recent turnover or the fact he's too lazy to move his feet so he sticks out his wand.

He had 66 PIM's this season, less than many other players considered top players - like Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Perry, and Kesler. True, many of them are of the dumb variety in the offensive zone - which I admitted earlier. But your reason of why he takes them is opinion, not fact.

- he takes a lot of shifts off (have fun disproving that one)

Again, watch him play without your usual bias, and you'll see it's not the case.

- he rarely if ever finishes his checks even though he's certainly got the size to do it and when he's motivated he can be an effective hitter

For once, a factual statement. I would totally agree with this - it is certainly something he needs to work on.

- he doesn't engage a player in the defensive zone along the boards, he prefers to play a few feet away and use his stick to free the puck (low % play)

That is the system many of the Caps players use - so are you going to call them out too? And it's not like he gets penalties from that, with such a high % of his penalties being in the offensive zone.

- he has few intangible qualities like leadership, grit. His contributions are mainly the sum of his statistics. When he's not scoring, he is rarely contributing. The only real nonmeasurable quality he does contribute is to give us a 2nd scoring threat on a line that isn't Ovechkin's

I would agree with the first statement there - he's shy, not a leader. But he contributes much aside from his scoring - like being 2nd on the Caps in takeaways, being one of their better PKers, and setting people up for shots. But, your last statement does give one major advantage he brings - it draws part of the defense's attention away from the 1st line.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Jasper's Rink seems to say that Semin, based on his on ice production, provides qualities when he is not scoring.

"But it wasn't all offense for Semin, who was a fantastic penalty-killer in limited ice time (to the surprise of no one). Impressively, he was only on the ice for three 5-on-4 power-play goals against all season long in more than 71 minutes of SH TOI. Even more impressively, Semin was on the ice for three 4-on-5 goals for (he led the team with two shorthanded goals), meaning that in more than three-and-a-half total periods of short-handed hockey played, Alex Semin's Caps scored as many goals as they surrendered. And while we'll deservedly bemoan his discipline below, it's worth noting that only 12% of his penalty minutes came after the second intermission, which is a bit mitigating, and that he drew more penalties and at a better rate than any other player on the team (with the exception of Mathieu Perreault in that latter grouping), which is hugely mitigating."

I know he doesn't play the style of PK cstanton1 demands, but I will always prefer results(substance), no matter the style, over style but no substance.

That paragraph up there also addressed cstanton1's issue with penalties.

Those two arguments you made of only attorney argument (not very meaningful)I countered with expert testimony and statistical evidence.

"He takes a lot of shifts off" Nope he doesn't. Your attorney argument is no better than mine so that washes out.

"He doesn't engage in the defensive zone" Yes he does, he steals many pucks. His play on the PK is evidence to show his play in the defensive zone. I countered with attorney argument and evidence.

"He rarely finishes checks" I will give you this one, even though it is only attorney argument.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 5:59 PM | Report abuse

lol, nice work today boys. I have to actually work the rest of the week so my contributions will be limited.

either way, moo point (as joey tribiani would say). Semin's not going anywhere. McPhee doesn't have the cojones to pull the trigger on that deal. Not to mention, the Caps front office is probably scared of how it will affect Ovechkin. Sounds like they all need a good dose of Midol.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 6:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm not even here to argue about Semin as a player.

My entire point is that there are people on this board who are inappropriately stating that Semin has "baggage", is selfish, doesn't try, and is too Russian-centric(saying it hurts his ability to play).

They have nothing to back up these statements but preconceived notions and stereotypes.

If you want to trade Semin for hockey reasons such as the Caps having too many wingers, the players the Caps could get in return, his contract situation, style of play. All reasonable. When you throw out reasons to trade him such as he has baggage, he is selfish, he doesn't try, and he is too Russian-centric then you sound like an idiot.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

by the way, the whole "prove or disprove with statistics" thing is very subjective. I don't actually expect stats to provide evidence in most hockey debates because for the most part they don't apply or most hockey debates aren't really quantifiable.

When a fan thinks a certain player works his butt off while another player doesn't, you can't quantify that in any real manner. The KHD line for years was our "hardest-working" line. No one would dispute that. But how do you prove that?

You see what you see, you know what you know. When Semin works hard, I see it, and I mention it. Just happens so rarely....:)

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

I think Semin gets a bad rep because he doesn't talk and conversely Laich often gets a pass because he talks a good game and most people seem to like him.

I'm not the biggest Semin fan but I wouldn't trade him for a couple of scrubs just for the sake of getting rid of him... would have to get at least one very good player in return, preferably a young shutdown d-man.

Posted by: joek443 | June 9, 2010 6:11 PM | Report abuse

I think Semin improved last year. He nearly eliminated the dumb retaliation penalties. He reduced the stick penalties in the offensive zone, but those penalties will happen given that he is maybe the team's most aggressive fore-checker. I think he gave it everything he had against the Habs, but he couldn't score (he was not alone in that and his linemates were not setting him up effectively). If the Caps trade a still fairly young 40 goal scorer, they better be sure they get good value in return.

He does seem like a shy guy. As far as not talking to the press, I can't fault him. Most of the press are just looking to bait people into saying things that cause controversy. Look what happened when he made the comment about Crosby last year.

If the Caps trade Semin and Flash, they are going to have trouble with second line scoring. I am not anxious to see Semin go. I'd like to see what he could do with a legitimate, talented center on his line.

Posted by: zmega | June 9, 2010 6:12 PM | Report abuse

When you throw out reasons to trade him such as he has baggage, he is selfish, he doesn't try, and he is too Russian-centric then you sound like an idiot.

-----

i think the fact that he doesn't try IS a hockey reason to trade him. Just because you think that he is a consistently hard worker doesn't negate anyone else's observations that his "heart and desire are in question" (to quote an above poster)

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

I'm not the biggest Semin fan but I wouldn't trade him for a couple of scrubs just for the sake of getting rid of him... would have to get at least one very good player in return, preferably a young shutdown d-man.
---------

jesus, where did anyone say to trade him for a bag of pucks/coupla scrubs? that argument isn't even on the table.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

I think Semin improved last year. He nearly eliminated the dumb retaliation penalties. He reduced the stick penalties in the offensive zone, but those penalties will happen given that he is maybe the team's most aggressive fore-checker. I think he gave it everything he had against the Habs, but he couldn't score (he was not alone in that and his linemates were not setting him up effectively). If the Caps trade a still fairly young 40 goal scorer, they better be sure they get good value in return.

He does seem like a shy guy. As far as not talking to the press, I can't fault him. Most of the press are just looking to bait people into saying things that cause controversy. Look what happened when he made the comment about Crosby last year.

If the Caps trade Semin and Flash, they are going to have trouble with second line scoring. I am not anxious to see Semin go. I'd like to see what he could do with a legitimate, talented center on his line.

Posted by: zmega | June 9, 2010 6:12 PM

Agreed on pretty much all of this. However, I think the Caps could do fine on 2nd line scoring without Semin, as long as they get a 2nd line center who can set up plays. Flash can be easily replaced by either Laich or Fehr - each is as good at scoring. My main concern with keeping Semin is salary cap issues - between him, Ovie, and Backstrom, they are slated to make $22.25M. Add in Green, and 4 players are getting $27.5M - out of $58.8M. That is a bit steep. If he was traded for a #1 dman, that would open up some space, and fill a major need. Suter, who has been mentioned in this a few times, would certainly work for that. Plus, he only makes $3.5M - freeing up $2.5M to put towards a #2 center, the other major need.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

jesus, where did anyone say to trade him for a bag of pucks/coupla scrubs? that argument isn't even on the table.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 6:15 PM

There have been a few people who wanted to get rid of him for very little, just to have him gone - vast minority, but it's there. However, most of us seem to have the same opinion - trade him for either a #1 dman or a #2 center, which are needs. That does seem to be the one thing with Semin we agree on.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 6:23 PM | Report abuse

If the Caps trade Semin and Flash, they are going to have trouble with second line scoring. I am not anxious to see Semin go. I'd like to see what he could do with a legitimate, talented center on his line.

Posted by: zmega | June 9, 2010 6:12 PM

zmega: The thing is, how can you acquire a legitimate #2 center while still having Semin on the team? 1) to acquire one in trade, Semin is likely the only asset you could move; 2) and to afford one within the cap, Semin's contract is the one most sensibly to move.

You could maybe trade Flash for picks and then get that center via the UFA route, but you'd be capped out and you would be spending thusly:

Forwards $42M roughly
Defense $15M
Goalies $1.6M

I think most would agree that isn't the "balance" we want.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 6:23 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

You are absolutely allowed to question his "heart and desire".

That is significantly different than saying "he HAS no heart and desire".

To make the latter statement you need evidence.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 6:24 PM | Report abuse

zmega, you know, I'm not quite accurate above. You could trade Flash for an upgrade on D at like $2.5M; move Erskine for a pick; and sign someone like Koivu and be within the cap.

Does Koivu count as legitimate #2 center?

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 6:29 PM | Report abuse

tom, if you mean Saku Koivu, sure - his name has been mentioned in this discussion many times, and he is a UFA. Maybe not the top choice, but certainly a good choice.

However, are there any #1 dmen available for $2.5M?

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Looking at some stuff about cap space, I was surprised about something - Detroit's situation. They have 15 players under contract, and just under $8M cap space left. I wonder if they might be dumping some salary...

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Tom, you insist on injecting salary cap realities into the fantasy talk! You know, like the classic - trade three of our guys who can't play for one all-star.

Seriously, I'd be OK with Flash going, and Koivu might do the trick for a year or two IMO.

Should we make anything out of GMGM apparently trying to wrap up Fehr before Schultz? I say "apparently" since my conclusion is based only on the Fehr discussions reaching the press first. Schultz had a solid regular season, but it looked to me like he was too slow to keep up with the pace of playoff hockey.

Posted by: zmega | June 9, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Does Koivu count as legitimate #2 center?

Posted by: tominsocal1

I don't think so, not anymore. If we are going UFA at center, I think Lombardi is the way to go. He made under $2m this year. I think you can get him at $5m for 2 years. Long enough to give our younger guys some time.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 9, 2010 6:54 PM | Report abuse

zmega: I doubt they will give up on Schultz since he's still decent and pretty cheap and can still improve. I have no idea why Fehr's name is coming up first.

timmy: I doubt you could get a #1 d for 2.5 - I was trying to figure out for zmega if it were possible to keep Semin and add a #2 center. The answer is you can keep Semin and add a #2 center if it's an aging center and if you are willing to do little or nothing with your D. Meanwhile, forget this talk about an expensive goalie (unless it's Miller). Well, you could trade Semin and Flash, bring in Miller and Koivu, promote a Hershey forward to third line, trade Erskine, and there would be like $2M for some other D - not ideal.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Ah... ok. I was somewhat confused there - though that sounded a bit low. You're better with cap numbers than me - if the only RFA's we re-signed were Fehr and Schultz (using numbers that have been come up with on here), we didn't re-sign any UFA's, and we filled holes in the 3rd/4th lines with Hershey players, would we still be able to keep Semin and get a #2 center? And would there be a decent amount of money to get a dman with?

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Here is cap composed only of current players and with some salaries projected:

Ovechkin (2008-2021) 9.538
Backstrom (2010-2020) 6.700
Semin (impending UFA) 6.000
Knuble (impending UFA) 2.800
Flash (signs 2010-2013) 2.750
Laich (impending UFA) 2.067
Fehr (signs 2010-2012) 2.250
Chimera (2009-2012) 1.875
Steckel (2010-2013) 1.100
Bradley (impending UFA) 1.000
Gordon (impending UFA) 0.900
Perreault (w/bonus; impending RFA) 0.792
Laing (re-signs yearly) 0.550
S/T 13 Forwards 38.322
Green (2008-2012) 5.250
Poti (impending UFA) 3.500
Schultz (signs 2010-2012) 2.250
Alzner (w/bonus; impending RFA) 1.675
Erskine (impending UFA) 1.250
Carlson (EL 2009-2012) 0.846
Sloan (2010-2012) 0.700
S/T 7 Defensemen 15.471
Varlamov (impending RFA) 0.822
Neuvirth (impending RFA) 0.822
S/T 2 Goalies 1.644
Total 23 Players 55.437
Cap Space (Estimated) 58.800
Available 3.363


You can add and subtract as you wish. Obviously you can take out Gordon and put Lombardi or Koivu and maybe add 2.1. You can then remove Erskine and add a better D-man at 2.3. At that point, capped out. You could then subtract Flash and add a Hershey forward and now your D-man can be 4.3, not 2.3. And so forth.

For children under 6, only, such as us.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

@zmega

The Fehr information came out first because Tarik was speaking to Don Meehan, the agent for Theo and Fehr. I do not believe he is the agent for Schultz though.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

You are absolutely allowed to question his "heart and desire".
That is significantly different than saying "he HAS no heart and desire".

To make the latter statement you need evidence.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 6:24 PM | Report abuse

so if i say "I CSTANTON QUESTION THE HEART AND DESIRE OF ALEXANDER SEMIN" that's ok? But if I say he HAS no heart and desire that's a problem? even a courtroom doesn't operate like that. What if I say Semin has miniscule amounts of heart and desire? Prolly can't say that either huh since its an impossible statement to prove (or disprove).

so no one should ever be allowed to say "this player is the hardest-working player on the team" because that argument is impossible to back up with hard evidence, is that right?

based on your proposed rules of debate, no one can really speak to anything outside of statistical information. Which would be dumb since anyone can go look anything up, no one really has to post it here.

i can probably go back and look up some of your statements and pull out dozens of comments you've made that don't follow your own ruleset.

lets not be silly. To me Semin has proven to be a mushhead in many ways. There's no NUMBERS I can necessarily use to prove that to you outside of the reasons I've already provided.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 7:33 PM | Report abuse

$3.363M available. But if you take out Gordon and Flash, that would add on $3.65M, for a total of $7.013M. Take out $2.5-3.5M for a #2 center, that leaves about $3.5-4.5M, for a dman and a Hershey player to on the 4th line. If Sloan was sent down to Hershey, that number would be $4.2-5.2M. So, maybe workable.

And that would give a lineup of:

Ovie-Backs-Knuble
Semin-#2C-Laich/Fehr
Chimera-Perrault-Laich/Fehr
Bradley-Steckel-Hershey player/Laing
Scratch: Laing/Hershey player

Schultz-Green
Poti-New Dman
Alzner-Carlson

Scratch: Erskine

Varly/Neuvirth

Were my numbers right? I'm pretty sure they were.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 7:33 PM | Report abuse

Look what happened when he made the comment about Crosby last year.

------------------------

yeah. That was dumb and speaks to his arrogance. Considering his team hasn't accomplished anything outside of being overhyped, and he was referring to the captain of a team that just won the Cup, I think he deserved to pull flak. Don't paint out to be a Crosby-lover or something juvenile like that, but in the position the Caps have been in lately, they better show some verbal respect when it comes to players who have actually accomplished something and stick that attitude right back in its holster. If what he said was quoted correctly, he was a bonehead for saying it.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 9, 2010 7:37 PM | Report abuse

This scenario sounds encouraging. I'm still not sold on MP85, though, due primarily to size. M. St. Louis is short, but not "small," which can work. MP85 is short and small, and I question whether he could hold up over the course of a full NHL season.

Then change up the PK system to make it more aggressive and I'm happy.

Posted by: zmega | June 9, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't have to be MP - could be a different Hershey center. MP would just fit there with his speed and energy.

I don't get your point about MP's size vs. St. Louis' though - MP is 1 inch taller, 3 pounds lighter. But his size is a concern. If he put on 10-15 pounds, that would be better.

And I agree about the PK system - we have the personnel, but the system is horrid.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Cstanton - you can say that we won't get an "elite" player in return for Semin due to "baggage". I'm thinking we will due to age, continued improvement meaning he's yet to peak, and most importantly he's played most of the season on the 2nd line. Most GM's are out there thinking this guy scores 40 with 2nd line minutes and PP1 minutes, what could he score with 1st line minutes and PP1 minutes? 45? 50? So while they will try to low ball us, an elite player will come to us if we trade him before the season starts or the very early part of the season. I think his value goes down the closer we get to the dealine due to his UFA status. Plus if we've kept him to the deadline GMGM won't trade him anyway. He'd keep him for the Cup run for sure.

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | June 9, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

Can you really not tell the difference between questioning something and outright stating something?

Example:

"Based on your comments I question your ability to reason." There I used a small amount of evidence that led me to question something, but is nowhere near enough proof to state it outright. I would have to gather evidence of your other activities before I can say outright you have no ability to reason.

Otherwise I could just jump forward and say

"You have no ability to reason." I am only basing this on your posts on this board and am only focusing on the times where you did not argue reasonably. To do this I would have to ignore any other factors that might argue support the opposite. I would also be conveniently omitting any posts where you used reason in your arguments.

See, there is a big difference between the two statements.

Also, I do think outright statements of "he is the hardest worker" are dumb. They are based on such a small sample size. Those comments often are ignorant of knowing how hard that person works at his craft over the course of a year. And the comment itself is so subjective that stating such a claim sounds stupid. If you amended your claim to "I think so-and-so IS a hard worker".

See, there you are stating that it is what YOU think and not what IS. And you are just stating you think he is a hard worker because any comments stating he is the hardest would be ignorant because of the amount of information you would be lacking to make such a comment.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

@timmyv - According to the team websites, St. Louis is an inch taller and 11# heavier (5-9, 177 vs. 5-8, 166). Visually, that seems about right for MP, but MStL looks shorter and a bit heavier to me, maybe 185. Of course, listed heights and weights are notoriously inaccurate, probably with the intent of misleading. For example, the Pens site lists Malkin at 195#, 5# less than Crosby. Anyone believe that is even close to accurate? Malkin was probably 195# when he was 15.

Posted by: zmega | June 9, 2010 8:13 PM | Report abuse

Caps website has MP at 5'10, 174. NHL.com has St. Louis at 5'9, 177. But yes, heights and weights do tend to be off by a bit.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 8:16 PM | Report abuse

Interesting... Bears website has MP at the height and weight you said. Someone's wrong lol.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 8:17 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

First, Semin made his comment before Crosby won the Cup.

Second, if you read his entire quote and the context he said it in, all he said was that he thought Kane was about as good as Crosby. How is that so blasphemous? Kane is younger and looks like he is about to win his first Cup and also contributed more in the finals than Crosby did.

I'm in no way saying I think Kane is better. But Kane is a really good player and a former #1 overall draft pick. Is that really so disparaging to Crosby to be even considered in the same light as Kane? If not, is that not then disparaging on Kane to say it is disparaging on Crosby?

The media only took a small portion of the entire quote and used it in a way that did not appropriately portray what he said. (the media does this more and more now and I find it pathetic. There is basically no check on the media to actually report accurate information). Then they took that small portion and blew it up because it created a "headline" story.

After that, I don't blame him for shunning the media.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 8:20 PM | Report abuse

aucoin 1-0 5 minutes in

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

they now say gordon from aucoin

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 8:45 PM | Report abuse

I now see that the way Pronger "paces" himself is by going into and out of the penalty box.

timmy: Your numbers look right. Driving home from work I created Flash, Erskine and Caps #1 for Suter and then sign Koivu or Lombardi for $3M. That uses $2.5M of the $3.3M cap space.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

So, the Caps could keep Semin, get a #2 center, and get a Suter-salary dman. However, it leaves no cap space for tweaking later on. Not sure if I like that little bit of it though.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Another great game between Chicago and Philly... this is a very fun series to watch.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 9:15 PM | Report abuse

I now see that the way Pronger "paces" himself is by going into and out of the penalty box.
------------------------------------------

LMFAO! It's a nice pace. Form is good too!

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | June 9, 2010 9:17 PM | Report abuse

1-1 bears & stars after 1
aucoin was credited with the bears goal

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

stars PP goal midway through 2nd - 2-1

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 9:44 PM | Report abuse

Goal Hershey, Jay Beagle, 2-2 in the 2nd

Posted by: eorr53 | June 9, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

beagle scores for bears 2-2. just over 6 to go in the 2nd

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

bears kill a penalty. still 2-2 with 2 to go in the 2nd

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 9:58 PM | Report abuse

2-2 after 2

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 10:01 PM | Report abuse

bears on the PP 1:45 into the 3rd

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 10:22 PM | Report abuse

Carlson scores with 2:08 left!!!!

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 10:47 PM | Report abuse

carlson scores on PP with 2:08 to go bears lead 3-2

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 10:48 PM | Report abuse

BEARS TAKE THE LEAD 3-2 LATE. WOOO HOOOO

Posted by: Jonathan6 | June 9, 2010 10:48 PM | Report abuse

John Carlson - does it again. Bears lead 3-2 late in the 3rd.

Posted by: Jonathan6 | June 9, 2010 10:49 PM | Report abuse

stars get another penalty with 1:58 to go - bears PP for the rest of the game (unless they score)

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 10:49 PM | Report abuse

Is that considered PP? It was on a delayed penalty, but PP hadn't started yet.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 10:50 PM | Report abuse

4-2 empty netter

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Giroux just iced it... Bears up 4-2 on PP goal with :26 left.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 10:51 PM | Report abuse

GIROUX - BANG EMPTY NET. SERIES TIED AT 2. WHOOOOAAAA BABY.

Posted by: Jonathan6 | June 9, 2010 10:51 PM | Report abuse

the empty net should have been a PP goal

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 9, 2010 10:53 PM | Report abuse

For once I actually agree with Milbury. Chicago sat back too much in that 3rd period. Philly was pushing so far up and Chicago had the chance for multiple odd man breaks and rarely took them. And when they did go on an odd man break they were usually very hesitant. They had multiple chances to put the game away and didn't take the chance.

Watching the Caps we all know that is important to not go full blast in the 3rd period when you have the lead, but you can't sit completely back either. There is an in between.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 10:55 PM | Report abuse

Empty netter on the PP - don't see those very often.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 10:56 PM | Report abuse

I don't think it's fair to throw out Fleischmann. I don't know what happened to him in this year's postseason, but he did alright in the 08-09 postseason.

His puck handling moves are great, and he doesn't use the same move like Semin and is also much cheaper. Semin was also present for the Flyers and Rangers series, but opposite for the Pens and Habs. Both are 50% in playoff series. I think it's too early to make a judgment on Fleischmann.

I can do without Semin, or at least his penalties and salary.

Posted by: hockeynightincanada | June 9, 2010 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Flash is useless for the Caps. 20+ goal scorer? They had 7. He is decent on defense, has no physicality, constantly misses open nets, doesn't have the playmaking ability of Semin... he's just not what the Caps need. They should let him go, so he can have a decent shot on a team that needs him.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Congrats to the Hawks, and to Toews. It was a great, hard-fought series!

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 9, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

"Patrick Kane, now that you've won the Stanley Cup, where are you going? Disney World?"

"No, I'm going to Buffalo to beat up a cab driver."

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

So now that Toews has won the Olympic Gold, the Cup, and the Conn Smythe in the same year does that make him a better than Crosby and Ovechkin :-)?

Posted by: ablake70 | June 9, 2010 11:15 PM | Report abuse

Toews may not be better than Crosby, he's a million times more gracious.

Crosby is a jerk, pure and simple.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 11:27 PM | Report abuse

@ablake70

I was thinking the same thing. For anyone who has used the argument Crosby was better than Ovie because of the Olympic Gold and Stanley Cup, then that person must say that Toews is better than Crosby. Toews also has the Olympic Gold, Stanley Cup, and a Conn Smythe. I also think he was named to the Olympic All-Star team(top 3 forwards, 2 D and 1 Goalie)

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 11:33 PM | Report abuse

As good as a player as Duncan Keith is, and he is a great defenseman, and as well as he played all playoffs, he played like crap tonight.

When he tripped on the Flyers 2nd goal that had me thinking of Schultz. Then he was stumbling with the puck and turning it over repeatedly in the last 10 minutes of the game and in OT.

During that time period he looked as bad as Green has ever looked.

If you combine that with Pronger's beautiful game 5, it shows you that even great players can have bad games or bad moments in big games.

I don't think there is a GM on the planet who wouldn't want both on his team for next year. It should help teach people (especially on here) that you can't judge a guy by his last game.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 9, 2010 11:39 PM | Report abuse

@sgm

Hartnell tripped Keith there. Watch the replay, Hawks bench were livid that a tripping penalty wasn't called.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 11:41 PM | Report abuse

gotta wonder how the flyers made all the way to game 6 of the SC finals with Leighton and Boucher... Leighton has the biggest five hole I've seen since Pete Peeters.

those who believe that the Caps have somehow have a 5, 6 or 10-year window to win multiple Cups should have seen Roenick tearing up seeing his old team win the Cup. JR played over 20 years and made to the finals ONCE. there are no more dynasties in hockey, at best you have a 2 or 3-year window to win the Cup.

Posted by: joek443 | June 9, 2010 11:41 PM | Report abuse

gotta wonder how the flyers made all the way to game 6 of the SC finals with Leighton and Boucher... Leighton has the biggest five hole I've seen since Pete Peeters

_____________

You can have a scarecrow in net when your top 4 d-men are Pronger, Timonen, Carle, and Coburn. Of course, having an actual #1 instead of a backup or 1A kind of guy would have benefited both teams. Niemi isn't that good either, but Chicago's defense is stacked like Philly's.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 9, 2010 11:45 PM | Report abuse

Tom-I'm sure Kane will have to put his cabbie beating skills to use tonight in Philly.

Great win for the Hawks. They deserved it.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 9, 2010 11:51 PM | Report abuse

joek443: Wasn't it you who "guaranteed" a Flyer win last weekend when it was 2-2?

We had several posters here, maybe you and one another, guaranteeing a Flyer win and crowing how Pronger was so great because he knew how to pace himself.

Let me apologize if you weren't that person. But, in the interest of fair play (Or Paul Playfair) and honesty, I would then like that poster to come forth and admit the idiocy of their projection.

I called my sister and congratulated her. So, even if tominsocal1 didn't win, at least loriinchicago did.

I am impressed with Toews. A gracious champion.

OK, to he!! with 2010, over and done with.

George McPhee: Get off the stick! I'm your customer; therefore, I'm always right! I want you to get a #1 pair d-man and a gritty #2 center and I don't care if you jettison a few finesse wingers to do it! Do that and Alex will be hoisting next June with me there at Staples Center!

signed,
nostrathomasinsocal1

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 9, 2010 11:59 PM | Report abuse

@richmondphil

No, I didn't see that I only saw the initial replay of it.

Either way, Keith looked horrible the last 10 minutes of the 3rd period and during OT. Again, Keith is a great player. Just pointing out that even great players have bad games and bad moments during clutch times.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 10, 2010 12:05 AM | Report abuse

i can handle calling the blackhawks the best team in the nhl this year

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 10, 2010 12:07 AM | Report abuse

The more I watched the more I think Kane and Semin play very similar styles. Especially how they go down the side and curl back towards the boards and either hit a steaking forward on the opposite side or whip a hard snap shot at the goalie.

Chicago's version of Semin scored the SCGWG this year, maybe we should keep Semin in hopes he is here to do it for the Caps next year. (In all fairness, it was a crappy goal. There is no way Leighton should let that go through).

Posted by: sgm3 | June 10, 2010 12:10 AM | Report abuse

Yes, last weekend it was time for Eric Clapton to move the he!! over because Chris (gap-tooth) Pronger was now God!!!

NO!!!!!

Truth be told ("Tell the Truth"), Clapton was God! OK, he wasn't, Duane Allman could outplay him with one hand and Jimi Hendrix could outplay him with just a thumb and one finger! But, the way some people here made Pronger out to be the Clapton of guitar playing and the Jimmy Stewart of acting and the Fred Flintstone of driving, all in one, well, maybe these fans aren't so astute as they'd have us believe!

Meanwhile, tominsocal1, under the name then of tominfl1 (and I do miss the beach), said it would be idiotic for the Caps to have given up so much for Pronger, especially with the ridiculous 7-yr deal Filthy has signed him to.

I hope the league sanctions Filthy and Chi for the Pronger and Hossa deals.

I have rattled on enough for one note. GEORGE MCPHEE: I WANT ACTION!

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 12:11 AM | Report abuse

i can handle calling the blackhawks the best team in the nhl this year

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 10, 2010 12:07 AM

But the Sharks and Caps had more points!

Seriously, I agree with joek. The window is a lot smaller than most think. The Caps don't have time to wait for (insert player) to develop. Maybe 2 or 3 (Carlson included), but not the rest.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 10, 2010 12:18 AM | Report abuse

@Capt_Kirk_in_Az

I agree. I can live with calling the Blackhawks the best team in the NHL this year. It seems correct.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 10, 2010 12:18 AM | Report abuse

sgm3: The SCWG that Leighton let in was the weakest goal allowed in the NHL this year except for the 200-ft goal Schultz scored in Atlanta.

I am imagining after the game that Hartnell probably beat the stuffing out of Leighton in the shower.

This is Filthydelphia, right?

And Hartnell, I'd love him on my team, but he looks like Bozo on steriods.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 12:21 AM | Report abuse

@joek443

I think the window can be longer than 3 years.

The Pens will be Cup contenders next year also and that will be their 4th year and I don't see that stopping in the next two years. The Red Wings have been Cup contenders since the lockout (this year they were on the edge of being a contender but I would consier them one).

Now it isn't easy to be a Cup contender for a long period of time and takes good management. The Caps were Cup contenders this year and I expect the Caps to be serious Cup contenders for at least the next 3 years. After that, it is a little too far away to predict. But it doesn't mean they can't.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 10, 2010 12:24 AM | Report abuse

Well the Caps will be losing in the Finals next year. So far there have been three Winter Classics and all three times the road team has gone on the lose in the finals.

Posted by: icehammer97 | June 10, 2010 12:31 AM | Report abuse

Well the Caps will be losing in the Finals next year. So far there have been three Winter Classics and all three times the road team has gone on the lose in the finals.

Posted by: icehammer97

well there's always 2011-12

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 10, 2010 12:34 AM | Report abuse

There is no "window" for Cup contention. That statement bears absolutely no merit. How long have the Red Wings contended? Since 95? And the cap era started in 05? And they are still contending?

Any team in the NHL can contend as long as their GM doesn't give out a stupid contract. Carolina will have a tough time because Staal ain't worth $8M and Tampa too because Vinny ain't worth his cash.

Chicago better enjoy it because as much as Hossa is worth the cap hit (if not the salary), Campbell isn't and God knows Huet isn't.

There is no limit on Cup contention if you weed out the over-paid finesse wingers and replace them with cheap, gritty checkers.

Anytime GMGM wants to hire me $250K/yr + expenses (and my name on Cup) I am right here he can come and call:

nostrathomas@knowitall.com

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 12:36 AM | Report abuse

Wings have been in 19 playoffs in a row. So yeah, there is no "window", unless it's one that a team makes for themselves, like the Hawks did this season.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 12:40 AM | Report abuse

The Wings also get all their players to take hometown discounts. Who on this Caps team has taken a discount?

Posted by: ablake70 | June 10, 2010 12:43 AM | Report abuse

The Wings also get all their players to take hometown discounts. Who on this Caps team has taken a discount?

Posted by: ablake70 | June 10, 2010 12:43 AM

i'm gonna go with backstrom

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 10, 2010 12:45 AM | Report abuse

ablake, what bearing does that have on this? Aside from absolutely nothing. This was about joke's comment that there are no dynasties anymore.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 12:46 AM | Report abuse

@ Capt_Kirk_in_AZ

I'll have to disagree. Backstrom didn't take a discount. His deal steadily increases over the next 10 years.

@ timmyv38

By taking hometown discounts, the Wings are able to keep better players longer than other teams. This allows them maintain stability while easing new players into their system. There are not many other teams that can do that.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 10, 2010 12:53 AM | Report abuse

ablake, what does that have to do with there supposedly not being dynasties anymore? Regardless of how it happens, the Wings have a dynasty - 19 straight playoff years.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 12:55 AM | Report abuse

ablake70:
i believe backstrom could have gotten a deal much closer to 8 - he wouldn't have a 10 yr deal - but i think he gave a discount to stay with ovi

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 10, 2010 12:57 AM | Report abuse

ablake70: You are making an excuse to rationalize reality. The point above from joek443 was "at best you have a 2 or 3 year to win the Cup."

I beg to disagree, respectfully.

The Caps can win anytime in the next ten years of the Ovi/Backie era. Any big dumb contract (like giving a second line winger $7M a year and not having but pennies for defense) will impede that objective. The Caps have no window. Knuble will retire and Fehr will move up. Poti will leave and Alzner will take his spot.

GMGM better make right choice better two out of Varly, Holtby and Neuvy.

In this salary cap era, where the players and teams rule jointly, the GM's choices bear considerable burden on team success.

To paraphase (weakly) Micheal Jackson:

"One bad contract do spoil the whole bunch, girl."

signed,
foreteller of all, but knower of nothing,
nostrathomasinsocal1

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 1:08 AM | Report abuse

@ timmyv38

The Wings are the only team that can be considered a dynasty in the cap era. With other Cup winners, players are going to leave for more money. As great as the Wings system is, look at how 5-6 injuries hurt them. For a team to maintain it's strong position, they have to limit turnover. The Wings are the only team that has been able to do that successful.

@ Capt_Kirk_in_AZ

I will say that I don't think a good team would have offered that much money. For Backstrom's great point totals, Ovi still had more in 10 fewer games. A lot of people credit Backstrom's success to the Ovechkin effect. IMO, his value is closer to Toews or Sedin than Malkin and Crosby.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 10, 2010 1:09 AM | Report abuse

ablake, I would disagree. Pens have been contenders for 3 straight seasons, and that isn't likely to end soon. Caps have been contenders for 2, and that won't end in the next few years. The Sharks have been a top 5 team for 4 straight years. It is certainly harder to keep a dynasty going now, but it's not impossible. It just takes smart management of the salary cap.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 1:15 AM | Report abuse

I must admit, I've just popped the cork on a fresh bottle of wine, a 2008 St Clement chardonnay. Before that the Misiones d Rengo 2009 sauvignon blanc was wonderful and before that the free hotel red served its purpose like a third pair, $600K entry-level contract defenseman.

Some say, don't ever drink before 5 pm. The way I look at it, it was one minute past minute on the east coast so whatever I drank today (yesterday) this new bottle counts as tomorrow.

It's like on the salary cap when the EL bonuses count toward next year.

Do I know what I'm talking about? Does anyone from the federal gov't know what they are talking about?

I'm glad we got that straight.

Go Caps.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 1:22 AM | Report abuse

@ timmyv38

The Pens have $23 million dollars worth of centers, and $5 million dollar shaky goalie, and only Oprik, Letang, and Goligoski on defense. I wouldn't be shocked to see them fall this year. The Sharks have only made it out of the 2nd round once, and got swept. With Marleau possibly leaving and Blake retiring, they'll have to rebuild too.

@ tominsocal1

IMO, it's not Semin's salary that is killing the Caps cap, but overpaying for marginal talent. Look how many guys we have in the bottom 6 that are making over $1 million dollars per. One guy is only good at faceoffs, one gets beat up all the time, and one skates very fast but couldn't score in a soccer net. Then look at our defense. Schultz is projected to get paid $2 million to learn on the job, Alzner is gettinhg $1.6 to learn on the job, Erskine is getting $1.25 million to sit in a pressbox, and Sloan is getting $640,000 to be a cheerleader. And with all these wonderful contracts, the grittiest guy on our team is our $9.5 million dollar star. For all the talk about going to the net and paying the price, it seems that only 37 year old Mike Knuble does this on a consistent basis.

As I said before, too many of our grinders fancy themselves finesse players and our defensemen are being paid too much for so little experience.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 10, 2010 1:33 AM | Report abuse

ablake: Just so we are clear, you said Backie is worth much closer to Sedin and Toews than malkin and crosby.

sedin/toews avg 6.2
crosby/malkin avg 9.2
backie 6.7

So, yes, that would be a correct statement.

Before backie signed I did in-depth analysis and said he was worth more than Toews and Kane, worth more than young Statsny and worth, arguably, more than Kopitar (6.875). I never put him on par with anyone else, although my own personal opinion is he's worth more than Staal 8.1 (different comparables though) and Vanek (7.125).

The Backstrom contract was extremely fair from all sides. You look at all the deals McPhee consummates and they are not hometown discounts nor overpayments to get players onto the teams. I had Backie pegged "more than Toews, Kane and Stastny, less than Kopitar," and that's exactly where he landed.

I myself don't call that a hometown discount but rather good math on both sides.

And if there's anything I like better than good wine, it's good math.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 1:37 AM | Report abuse

Someone on here boldly stated that the Caps needed more players like Jeff Carter who step up their game in big situations. I then replied that Carter was not stepping up at all. The poster then said I was dead wrong and Carter was stepping it up and was great in the corners.

Philly's top line of Gagne, Richards, and Carter combined for 6 points and a minus 21 rating in the series.

Does that person want to step up and say they were wrong?

Posted by: sgm3 | June 10, 2010 1:39 AM | Report abuse

@ tominsocal1

I agree. I think Backstrom's deal is fair for both sides. I remember you saying that Backstrom would get a deal as long as Ovi's and you were spot on.

Guys like Lidstrom $7.4 million, Datsyuk $6.7 million and even Zetterburg's $7.4 million lifetime contract are discounts. And the Wings are always able to find good role players to fill out a roster with 5 guys making over $5 million per.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 10, 2010 1:49 AM | Report abuse

ablake: As always, you make very good points.

First let me say, to quell your fears, that the chardonnay I just opened will be used tomorrow (later tonight east coast time) for the shrimp scampi we have planned for dinner.

I know you were concerned about that.

Now, I must take a breath, because what you've described in indeed the key to success in this modern era.

Fact is, no team can have 23 $4M players. Math doesn't work. Look at the Wings - they always have a few OJT's on the roster.

Let's step back and do the math (incidentally, I have proposed a new game show to Hollywood now that I'm here - "Name That Contract" - we'll see if I hit the big time) - you have a few top salary guys and the avg must be 58.8/23 = 2.5 roughly and waht does that say? Well, you must offset every $9M player with 4 (YES - 4!!!) $1M players for the five to avg $2.5M each.

What does that tell you? Well, you can't survive in today's NHL without a human punching bag (Bradley) and a faux tough guy (Chimera) and a weak, faceoff specialist (Steckel) and a guy with a chronic back (Gordo) to offset that world-class LW.

Welcome to 2010, ablake70.

I'll be forecasting the 2012 elections later this afternoon. After that I'll explain to myself how I lost $20,000 on Juniper Networks stock in the last month.

Yours,
nostrathomasinsocal1

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 1:51 AM | Report abuse

tom-Problem is, those $1 million guys are $500,0000-$700,0000 guys on other teams. I don't have a problem with most, especially not Bradley, but overpaying them all adds up. Basically, I'd rather have a cheap domestic beer instead of a cheap bottle of wine.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 10, 2010 2:07 AM | Report abuse

@sgm3

Interesting you say that Kane's style reminds you of Semin.

In his infamous interview where he said "What's so special about Crosby", Semin talked about how he likes Kane's style better of playing than Crosby's.

Sasha, just don't follow in Kane's off-ice escapades.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | June 10, 2010 6:44 AM | Report abuse

Thank god it's all over, now let's move to the offseason.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 10, 2010 7:36 AM | Report abuse

timmy38 saying that Semin doesn't take shifts off is the most comical comment I have read on this blog all year. No idea how someone could actually type that dribble and believe it. Why would his coach bench him for several third periods throughout the season unless he saw what the rest of us saw, Semin taking LAZY shifts!

tominsocal1,

You were certaily on a roll last evening, still whiping the tears from my eyes from laughing at some of your posts!

Posted by: PhilR | June 10, 2010 7:49 AM | Report abuse

There is no "window" for Cup contention. That statement bears absolutely no merit. How long have the Red Wings contended? Since 95? And the cap era started in 05? And they are still contending?

---------------------------------------------

you can throw that out the window, there is a salary cap now. also being able to contend doesn't mean just making the playoffs or winning the prez cup. it means at least making it to the conference finals.

Posted by: joek443 | June 10, 2010 8:07 AM | Report abuse

Someone mentioned on here yesterday that "Knuble is money", well......I must say that after watching the Bears game last night and seeing yet another timely goal by Mr Carlson that Carlson will be money for the Caps for money years to come!

Posted by: PhilR | June 10, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Seeing guys like Byfuglien and Hartnell play in the playoffs is pretty amazing.

These guys don't have half the talent of Semin, but twice the heart.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 10, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Eric Fehr is the perfect example of the type of player we'll NEVER WIN A CUP WITH. In plain language, "HE HAS NO GUTS. AND, EVEN LESS HEART." So, I don't want to hear about how many goals he may score during the regular season. That's totally irrelevant once THE REAL SEASON BEGINS. But, you and George will NEVER figure it out. Just pitiful...

Posted by: Puckguru | June 10, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Puckguru,

Fehr was one of the Caps better performers this past post season. If the entire team had played with the grit he showed they would have likely won the series against the Habs so I have no idea what you are spouting off about.

No guts or heart....hmmmmmmm, having both shoulders surgically repaired at the same time in the off-season so he would not miss any of the season shows no guts or heart.....yeah, ok...I get your point.

Posted by: PhilR | June 10, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Eric Fehr is the perfect example of the type of player we'll NEVER WIN A CUP WITH. In plain language, "HE HAS NO GUTS. AND, EVEN LESS HEART." So, I don't want to hear about how many goals he may score during the regular season. That's totally irrelevant once THE REAL SEASON BEGINS. But, you and George will NEVER figure it out. Just pitiful...

Posted by: Puckguru | June 10, 2010 9:15 AM

That must be why he was the Caps next leading goal scorer after Ovie and Backs this postseason, because he's useless in the playoffs. Besides Knuble, he was the only Cap willing to stay in front of Halak consistently - which takes guts and heart.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Totally retarded and no cause and effect, but...
Am I the first one to note this:

Winter Classic 2008: Pittsburg Penguins (lost in Cup Finals same year)

Winter Classic 2009: Detroit Red Wings (Lost in Cup Finals same year)

Winter Classic 2010: Philadelphia Flyers (lost in Cup Finals same year)

Winter Classic 2011: WSH @ PIT...will the trend hold for Cup Finals loser???

Posted by: Political_Stratgst | June 10, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Totally retarded and no cause and effect, but...
Am I the first one to note this:

Winter Classic 2008: Pittsburg Penguins (lost in Cup Finals same year)

Winter Classic 2009: Detroit Red Wings (Lost in Cup Finals same year)

Winter Classic 2010: Philadelphia Flyers (lost in Cup Finals same year)

Winter Classic 2011: WSH @ PIT...will the trend hold for Cup Finals loser???

Posted by: Political_Stratgst | June 10, 2010 9:54 AM

Already noted by a couple of people.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

So now that Toews has won the Olympic Gold, the Cup, and the Conn Smythe in the same year does that make him a better than Crosby and Ovechkin :-)?

Posted by: ablake70 | June 9, 2010 11:15 PM | Report abuse

Of course it does! I just started a thread on another site about this. Not only that, but Toews was named the best forward in the Olympics. I guess he'll be getting all of the endorsements and he'll be the face of the league from now on, right?

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | June 10, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

well,
icehammer97 noted the Winter Classic "curse" really, really, really early this morning.

I see us breaking the pattern and winning it all next year. :)

Posted by: _Mark | June 10, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Draft 2 weeks from yesterday. UFA season begins 3 weeks from today. The nightmare season is over. Time to revamp this puppy, make it our year next year.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 10, 2010 10:04 AM | Report abuse

icehammer and Political noticed two slightly different things. icehammer was talking about the road team, Political was talking about the losing team - which so far have been the same.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

@ sgm3: Thanks for your rational debate on the value of Semin and his talent. It's not often that someone does that. And to do it without getting into a "shouting" match is admirable. I have much respect for you.

Posted by: LeftCoastCapsFan | June 10, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

@sgm3:
Regarding the below statement... nice pwnage! LOL

----
Someone on here boldly stated that the Caps needed more players like Jeff Carter who step up their game in big situations. I then replied that Carter was not stepping up at all. The poster then said I was dead wrong and Carter was stepping it up and was great in the corners.

Philly's top line of Gagne, Richards, and Carter combined for 6 points and a minus 21 rating in the series.

Does that person want to step up and say they were wrong?
----

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 10, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Someone on here boldly stated that the Caps needed more players like Jeff Carter who step up their game in big situations. I then replied that Carter was not stepping up at all. The poster then said I was dead wrong and Carter was stepping it up and was great in the corners.

Philly's top line of Gagne, Richards, and Carter combined for 6 points and a minus 21 rating in the series.

Does that person want to step up and say they were wrong?
----

Posted by: FrankM73


In fairness, both Carter and Gagne returned from broken feet. Gagne scored a few OT goals in the previous series.

I didn't say it, but the Caps could use more guys like that.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 10, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Watching these Bears games really has me intrigued about some of their players.

Especially Andrew Gordon, I would like to see what he can do in the bottom six.

Of course a full season of the American hero is going to be great too.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | June 10, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

in response to all the talk yesterday regarding Semin and possibly trading him - pick up a decent 2nd line center and Semin scores 50 goals. Upgrade at center before you trade your 2nd best goal scorer.

Posted by: capsfansince74 | June 10, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

timmyv38 - please stop using the term "retarded". Grow up son.

Posted by: alanb1 | June 10, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

In fairness, both Carter and Gagne returned from broken feet. Gagne scored a few OT goals in the previous series.

I didn't say it, but the Caps could use more guys like that.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 10, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

these guys made it to the finals and didn't embarrass themselves with Leighton and Boucher in net. I hate the flyers more than any team in the league but what these guys were able to do in the playoffs this year was no small accomplishment.

it's kinda funny looking at some of the posts scoffing at them for just being lucky to even make the playoffs. yes they were lucky to make the playoffs but you don't win 3 rounds in the playoffs, coming back from a 3 games to none deficit on pure luck.

they ran into a team that battles just as hard as them but also have more talent than they do in the finals.

Posted by: joek443 | June 10, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

alanb1,
Actually, timmyv38 was quoting a poster before him and it was the other poster using the term "retarded".

Posted by: _Mark | June 10, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

The Flyers present an interesting case study. You have to give Laviolette lots of credit for getting them to play something approaching legitimate hockey and not just endless gooning. They played hard in the playoffs and showed the Caps what BB has been preaching about the need to crowd the crease to score goals. But if they had won the Cup, it would have been a major embarrassment for the league, IMO. Is it in the league's best interests to go back to the bad old days of clutch, grab, and goon? Overall, that is an average team or a bit better IMO, talent-wise. They played hard and got some breaks in terms of the teams they were matched up with.

The Hawks are a deserving Cup winner, a team with great depth. Matthew Barnaby was just on ESPN talking about the Hawks being a dynasty and winning several Cups in the next few years. No mention at all of their salary cap situation - again proving that he is a doofus and that it is ridiculous that ESPN is paying him. I think the Hawks loaded up for this year. They will be good in the future due to their strong group of core players, but they will lose some key talent due to the salary cap and likely drop off a bit.

Posted by: zmega | June 10, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

zmega: Per your comment, Barnaby has been issued a rifle and boots and is now marching in the Doofus Brigade.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Seeing guys like Byfuglien and Hartnell play in the playoffs is pretty amazing.

These guys don't have half the talent of Semin, but twice the heart.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 10, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

how bout 10x the heart. The way those guys play, its obvious they'll do whatever it takes to win.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 10, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

With the salary cap problems the Hawks are going to have, half their team will be gone. Sharp for 2C here...?

Posted by: Steve_R | June 10, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

SGM:
Someone on here boldly stated that the Caps needed more players like Jeff Carter who step up their game in big situations
---------------------------------------

liar.

I said Jeff Carter who plays largely a finesses style during the regular season is playing a much grittier game in the playoffs and its visibly apparent in the way he's been battling for pucks along the boards etc. That statement was made in comparison to a Semin who did NOT step out of his finesse comfort zone to play a much grittier game in the playoffs.

I know you like to "tweak" what people say so you have a better argument for it. But I'll catch you every time.

Posted by: cstanton1 | June 10, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

cstanton,

To answer your question from last night on Semin: my opinion has been formed from watching him on the ice, not from the anti-Semin lobby. Ungodly skill, major brain farts, never know what you're going to see from shift to shift.

Posted by: Steve_R | June 10, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Eric Fehr is the perfect example of the type of player we'll NEVER WIN A CUP WITH. In plain language, "HE HAS NO GUTS. AND, EVEN LESS HEART." So, I don't want to hear about how many goals he may score during the regular season. That's totally irrelevant once THE REAL SEASON BEGINS. But, you and George will NEVER figure it out. Just pitiful...

Posted by: Puckguru | June 10, 2010 9:15 AM

I couldn't agree more with you!!!!

Posted by: vermontcaps | June 10, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

@zmega & @tominsocal

I think the guy with the mullet got him that gig.

It was sickening how much Melrose used to praise Barnaby during his playing days.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | June 10, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Sharp for 2C here...?

Posted by: Steve_R | June 10, 2010 1:03 PM |

Sharp or Bolland. Hjalmarsson maybe.

Caps should zero-in on the Hawks salary shedding.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 10, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Watching these Bears games really has me intrigued about some of their players.

Especially Andrew Gordon, I would like to see what he can do in the bottom six.

Of course a full season of the American hero is going to be great too.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | June 10, 2010 11:44 AM |

Honestly, it was hard for me to get excited about anyone because of the fact that watching Alzner left a bad taste in my mouth. He got burrnnnnnned at least twice..caught completely flat-footed.

I was trying to watch Pinni, A. Gordon, MP, and Beagle, to see how they were performing and if they were ready to make the jump. Honestly, Beagle looked the best to me. This was before he scored the GTG too.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 10, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

@richmondphil

I have rarely been impressed with Alzner. I am really hoping this guy isn't a Nolan Baumgartner clone.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | June 10, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

It's been hard for me to tell exactly what is going on some times due to the Bears' telecasts' limitations (e.g., one camera, no replays, etc.). But it looks to me like Alzner has been facing way too many break-aways and 2-on-1 situations, with Carlson caught up ice. On Carlson's goal, he was in the crease, playing the Knuble role. I know d-men should sometimes "jump up into the play," but does that include camping out in the crease? it worked for the Bears in that one case, but but I'm beginning to question his judgment on when to jump up, as well as whether he really bust his a*s to get back when there is a turnover. These are hopefully things that are easily correctable. No question that he has the size and talent, along with a bit of mean streak, to become a top level NHL d-man.

Posted by: zmega | June 10, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

@zmega

That is one low budget broadcast. But I guess I will take what I can get.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | June 10, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

@sgm3, @capsfan75

how funny about Semin and Kane - I was just about to post how much Kane plays like Semin myself! The point is that kind of player does help.

So. for all the Semin bashers: you do need the guy going to the net and you do need the guy who actually creates and gets the puck there. Semin is that other guy and those ones are harder to find...Looking at the finals, Semin played (in his one playoff series) and created as well as Kane did, in fact, he might've done more. (He just didn't have Leighton playing goal against him...)

Posted by: RedLitYogi | June 10, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Yup, really painful to watch. Not sure the camera operator has ever seen a hockey game before - the idea is to keep the puck on camera whenever possible!

Posted by: yosemite_sam | June 10, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

@wtf - Yeah, beggars can't be choosers. I feel fortunate to have any kind of telecast of the Bears games. That really shows the growth of hockey interest in DC.

Posted by: zmega | June 10, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Yogi, Semin's shots were coming from 35' to 40' out. That's low percentage areas to shoot from, no?

Posted by: Steve_R | June 10, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Any word on if they will be showing game 6 and if needed 7??

Posted by: PhilR | June 10, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

WOULD YOU DO THIS? Fourth Period talks about Fla moves, would you trade Semin/Flash for Nathan Horton & Stephen Weiss?

You get back a center and winger for a winger and center/winger. Total cost, pending Flash UFA, is fairly close. It closes the 2C gap, adds another winger.

Thoughts?

Posted by: flee001 | June 10, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

@sgm3, @capsfan75

how funny about Semin and Kane - I was just about to post how much Kane plays like Semin myself! The point is that kind of player does help.

So. for all the Semin bashers: you do need the guy going to the net and you do need the guy who actually creates and gets the puck there. Semin is that other guy and those ones are harder to find...Looking at the finals, Semin played (in his one playoff series) and created as well as Kane did, in fact, he might've done more. (He just didn't have Leighton playing goal against him...)

Posted by: RedLitYogi

He did play against Rinne, Luongo and Nabakov. Kane had 28 points in the playoffs. Semin had 2.

Let's all stop rationalizing Alex Semin's position on this team. It is a moot point. He makes $6m, we need that $6m more than we need him.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 10, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

THOUGHTS - Would you take Calgary Kipper + ? for Semin + Neuvy + ?

Posted by: flee001 | June 10, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

If Semin stays with Caps and has amazing playoffs, 25+ points, then he deserves a look at something longer but the salary cap will come into play. If Fehr develops, Flash goes, Hershey players step up then the dollars may resolve themselves. Semin clicked in the playoffs the past two years, first round, but he showed a side in the Phi series that was great, he needs to do it again.

Posted by: flee001 | June 10, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

flee,

No to Kipper. $$ is too high, plus too many years

Posted by: Steve_R | June 10, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Yogi: I don't consider my self a Semin basher. But, I favor trading him.

Let's say we did not have Ovechkin but instead a true, #1 all-star defensive defenseman. Semin in that case would be our #1 winger and he'd be more worth the $6M to us. Meanwhile, we'd still be short a #2 center, but with that #1 d-man secured, I'd be much less inclined to trade Semin, maybe even Flash.

We are overloaded with snipers and poke-checking defensemen. Our team is 80-90% finesse and 10-20% grit. As we learned in the day of teh lunchpail Caps, the opposite formula doesn't quite work either.
An army can't function with just infantry. You need tanks and artillery. We have Ovi, one tank and we have Knuble, an armored personnel carrier. In the playoffs, most of the goals are scored from within a few feet. Snipers are no good for that. You need bazookas and sometimes guys with bayonets too to win a war. Trench warfare is ugly but a fact of life. Caps must be tweaked IMHO.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Som tominsocal1, Semin is our Coast Guard then?

Posted by: flee001 | June 10, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Flee,

Semin is a R.E.M.F.

Posted by: Steve_R | June 10, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking Holtby will get plenty of time in DC next season. Gut feeling says he will be a bigger part of the goalie corps then he is slated for and he will be the real Kolzig type pillar between the pipes. Just a gut feeling.

Posted by: BernieWolfeFan1 | June 10, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

timmyv38 - please stop using the term "retarded". Grow up son.

Posted by: alanb1 | June 10, 2010 11:56 AM |

alanb1, I never have. You must have seen what I pasted from someone else's post. Try reading more carefully.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

BernieWolfeFan1: I have a gut feeling too but I think it has more to do with what I had for lunch.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

timmy38 saying that Semin doesn't take shifts off is the most comical comment I have read on this blog all year. No idea how someone could actually type that dribble and believe it. Why would his coach bench him for several third periods throughout the season unless he saw what the rest of us saw, Semin taking LAZY shifts!

Posted by: PhilR | June 10, 2010 7:49 AM

First, I never said he never does - I said he doesn't to the extent that cstanton was saying. Second, name for me a single game this season where he got benched in the 3rd. Out of all the games I went to/watched, which was almost all of them, it never happened once. Semin was one of the 3 forwards most likely to be out there in the 3rd, after Ovie and Backs.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

It's been hard for me to tell exactly what is going on some times due to the Bears' telecasts' limitations (e.g., one camera, no replays, etc.). But it looks to me like Alzner has been facing way too many break-aways and 2-on-1 situations, with Carlson caught up ice. On Carlson's goal, he was in the crease, playing the Knuble role. I know d-men should sometimes "jump up into the play," but does that include camping out in the crease? it worked for the Bears in that one case, but but I'm beginning to question his judgment on when to jump up, as well as whether he really bust his a*s to get back when there is a turnover. These are hopefully things that are easily correctable. No question that he has the size and talent, along with a bit of mean streak, to become a top level NHL d-man.

Posted by: zmega | June 10, 2010 1:54 PM

zmega, in all fairness to Carlson, he rushed the crease on that goal because it was a delayed penalty. Even if he'd been caught there, the play would have been blown dead. However, he does seem to drift up a bit too much on occasion - happened against Montreal a few times.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Yogi, Semin's shots were coming from 35' to 40' out. That's low percentage areas to shoot from, no?

Posted by: Steve_R | June 10, 2010 2:06 PM

Actually, more were from the 20-25' range. Not a low percentage shot - unless your linemates won't get in front of the goalie.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

@zmega - the goal Carlson scored where he was in front of the net was on the PP.

Posted by: capsfansince74 | June 10, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

I think the untouchable goalie is Kipprusopf. If Iginla is on the block, no one on that team is untouchable. Still Lundqvist's inability to score goals isn't helping the Rangers, so he is a possibility.

Posted by: ablake70 | June 9, 2010 11:53 AM |

I believe Kiprusoff is signed through 2013-14 and I think the contract was a six-year $35 million one, and I'm sure that probably means he's supposed to get at least $5 million a year. I believe he'll be turning 37 at the beginning of that final year. I don't see why the Capitals would want that unless they are planning on trading away Varlamov or Neuvirth.

Plus there are more than a handful of goalies I'd feel better about having for the length of their current contracts at this point. Kiprusoff made a name for himself when he had two incredible years, I think 2003-04 and then the next year. Since then, he's been really good, don't get me wrong, but not as good, and 2008-09 seems like an off year--he had only the #32 save percentage in the league that year, so that shakes my confidence in him a bit. We know that he can underperform.

I don't think that's going to happen. I think we should probably not like it if it does.

Posted by: youaresquishy | June 10, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Let's all stop rationalizing Alex Semin's position on this team. It is a moot point. He makes $6m, we need that $6m more than we need him.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 10, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Rationalizing? Wrong. We need Semin. People really need to stop bashing him. No, he's not a gritty, in-the-crease kind of player, but you need goal-scorers, too. No, we don't need the $6 mil more than we need him. We have space to get a 2C and a D-man. If we can get a really good 2C who can give us production like 20+ goals and 60+ points, then I say we can give up Semin to make room. Otherwise, there's no reason to get rid of him. He had one bad playoff series. Give him a break.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | June 10, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

timmy, see attached. Closer to my guess than yours. Would you call 32.3' high percentage?

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2009/playoffs/5_on_5_shots.php?sort=9&mingp=&mintoi=10&team=WSH&pos=LW

Posted by: Steve_R | June 10, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

We are overloaded with snipers and poke-checking defensemen. Our team is 80-90% finesse and 10-20% grit.

- Tominsocal

Tom, who are our finesse guys? I see Backie, maybe BMo, Semin, Flash and maybe Belanger. Ovie's as much grit as finesse, Knuble, Fehr, Laich, Stecks, Brads, and Chimera are gritty. That seems more like 60% grit, give or take.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | June 10, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

2Alex: Compared to what I just saw in the SCF, our defense is about all finesse and most of our forwards too. Steckel is not gritty. If you rate grit 1-10 then maybe Kane and Toews are like 2-3 and Hossa next least and he's between 5-7. Hossa is as gritty as Bradley and Brads is one of our best. Flash and Semin are less than Kane and Toews. Avg "grit" 12 Caps forwards = maybe 3-4 and Hawks maybe 7. The difference was pretty apparent. And, on D, did you see Keith knock down Hartnell? OK, Bozo scored, but he was still smarting.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

@flee001:

So this is the trade?

To FLA:
RW-Semin, 26yo, 6'2" 205 lbs, $6 mil, 1 yr, 84 points in 73 games.
LW/C-Flash, 26yo, 6'1", 190, RFA (about $3 mil), 51 pts in 69 games

TO CAPS:
RW-Horton, 25yo, 6'2", 229lbs, $4 mil, 3 yrs, 57 pts in 65 games.
C-Weiss, 27yo, 5'11", 185lbs, $3.1 mil, 3 yrs, 60 pts in 80 games.

I honestly don't know on this one... it gives us a #2 Center and also a #2RW but what about Fehr and getting a #2 Defenseman?

Why would Florida do this? This leaves them with 1 Center, Reinprecht

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 10, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

FrankM73, playing around with #'s but if I had to wonder why, well first Flash is lower cost than Horton, pas potential to be more productive with more ice time, potential card played here. Semin is in for his immense talent who Fla could either resign or use as trade bait for desperate team. Bure did well there and who knows if Fla taps him to help convince Semin.

The reason Fla gives up those two players is simple, it's not working with them, period. New blood, fresh start. Age is not a factor but the upside of a Semin should be enticing. As for center they also can go UFA route.

It's an interesting thought that helps the Caps get better while giving Fla a rare, raw talent they can afford.

Posted by: flee001 | June 10, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

@flee001:
I'm not sure I trade Semin for anything other than a #1/2 Defensive Defenseman.

I proposed Semin to LA for Jack Johnson and Jared Stoll on HFBoards and some Kings fans thought that was fair...

We presume Flash is trade bait but nothing has been said. We wonder about Semin because of his UFA status. Looking at the needs and the roster, Flash looks like the favorite to get traded but who the heck knows anymore with GMGM?

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 10, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Semin has made it clear that he's going to hear whatever offers are out there 7/1/11. If Ov can't convince him to resign with the Caps, you think Bure could do that for Florida...?

Posted by: Steve_R | June 10, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Solid point Frank. D is most def priority, just looking at it from another angle, clear a bit of cap space and sign UFA D we need or at least have flexibility for trade. Love looking at different scenarios and yours is rock solid especially is Kings miss out on Kovie and Marleau.

What do you think about rumored goalie? Kipper is just one of the untradeable ones but what about Miller, Hendrik, Thomas (contracts all, teams that need scoring).

Posted by: flee001 | June 10, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

@Steve_R:
can you provide a link for that or reference and interview if not that easy to link? I had not heard that!

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 10, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Get NIITTYMAKI. I guarantee he'll make us a Cup competitor. Look at his stats in recent years. His entire career has been with horrible Defensive teams.

1)Philadelphia in it's bad years. May I remind everyone he was used as a backup for washed up goalies (Biron, Esche, Burke).

2)Tampa Bay...which hasn't been a good team since '06-'07! The team managed to get somewhat better at the end of this year...thanks to Niittymaki.

He has the talent to become a top-tier goaltender. All he needs is to get a top team. We're a top team.

Posted by: Siikonen-FIN- | June 10, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Frank, one year is what Semin wanted. Will poke around and see if I can find a link to that.

Posted by: Steve_R | June 10, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

@flee001:
thanks! The Semin for JJ and Stoll seems even, but wouldn't it be great to see the Caps throw in a condition pick for Frolov's rights too? not sure if that's fair but hey, fun to wonder!

regarding acquiring a goalie:
If we acquire a goalie with a contract longer than 1 year means you have one season to pick from Varly or Neuvy and goalies are the last to develop. this is a mistake!
If there is no trade for a goalie, I personally think Neuvy and Varly battle it out this season, next season Neuvy wins out. Varly will be traded for durability issues, then Holtby comes in and pulls a Kolzig and steals the show from Neuvy... yes, I just said Holtby will win the 3-way horse race!

regarding #1 goalies, they can play at an elite level into their mid-30's and beyond
Kipper: a .920 save % will get my attention, as will his cap hit of 5.833 for 4 more seasons, but who is going to tend net is Kipper's moved? Toskala. end result, Kipper won't be traded!
Thomas: a .915 save % with 5 SO's get's my attention also, as does 3 years at 5 mil, the emergence of Rask makes him expendable. Bottom Line: he's 36 and good for a team with no goalie options, we have 2
Lundqvist: same as above, except younger, who is going to tend net?
Miler: forget about it, he's untouchable, even for Semin and Carlson and others.

I don't think any goalie is coming to the Caps... period!

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 10, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Tarik had put a blog post the night Semin contract was announced (it was a Friday night back in January I think) and there was a quote from GMGM that they had explored multi-year but that "the player preferred a one-year contract."

I'm paraphrasing but that is gist.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

@Siikonen-FIN:
"I'm taking an aweful risk Vader, this had better work!"
while you have a valid point about him playing on poor defensive teams, grabbing a goalie on the presumption that being a better team will make his stats better is not what teams that are trying to win Stanley Cups do!

3 years ago:
Yes, great idea!
Now:
we can do better!

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 10, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

@tominsoca1:
I remember hearing that. I just thought you guys had a link with a quote.

@flee001:
I did see an interesting trade proposal on HFBoards.com between Boston and the Caps. Something like this

To BRUINS:
Semin
Fleischmann
Neuvirth

TO CAPS:
Thomas
Chara

It breaks down to about this:
Chara (7.5 mil, 1 yr) for Semin (6 mil, 1 yr) + Neuvy (821k, 1 yr)
Thomas (5 mil, 3 yrs) for Fleischmann (RFA, presumed 3.0, 3 yrs)

personally, I'd take Wideman and a one of Bergeron, Savard, or Krejci for semin, but that might be too much from Boston.

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 10, 2010 5:27 PM | Report abuse

I give Bears Coach Mark French all the credit for shaking up the top two lines and possibly saving the Calder Cup Series by dropping Giroux down from the top line and moving Bourque up with the Bears down 3-1 midway through the third game down 2-0 in games in the Series. They went on to win 6-3 with five unanswered goals and won last night 4-2 since the move to tie the series up at 2-2. This was a "brilliant, simply a brilliant move" IMO. Take note. Nothing is more difficult than for a coach to make such a line change on the fly.

Got my tickets at 1:30 today for Monday night's game just before the Bears sold out. They said at the ticket window they will sell "standing room only" Monday night. Nothings better than SRO in Hershey. The worn old SRO signs hanging from the ticket windows were a tradition at the Old Barn still standing at the other end of the Giant Center parking lot. As the song by Black Eye Peas "I Got a Feeling" says that "Monday night" is going to be a good night . . . a good, good night!

Posted by: dull | June 10, 2010 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Rationalizing? Wrong. We need Semin. People really need to stop bashing him. No, he's not a gritty, in-the-crease kind of player, but you need goal-scorers, too. No, we don't need the $6 mil more than we need him. We have space to get a 2C and a D-man. If we can get a really good 2C who can give us production like 20+ goals and 60+ points, then I say we can give up Semin to make room. Otherwise, there's no reason to get rid of him. He had one bad playoff series. Give him a break.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex

First of all, he went scoreless against the Penguins last year in the playoffs as well. Second, there is plenty of reason to get rid of him: need for d, need for 2c, contract expires end of year, valuable trade asset, locker room distraction going into trade deadline, cap relief.

Semin will be moved. Get used to the idea.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 10, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

ah, the Semin debate is alive and well.

First off, full disclosure: I'm a caps fan and I don't care if they win the Cup. Winning the Cup is an accident - all you can do is put yourself in position to have the accident, but you can't force it to happen. I'd rather root for the team I have - big warts and all.

And yes, these guys are a little off-beat. I can relate to that. All the more reason to want to see them grow into what they can be. Semin's likely gone after next year anyway.

We saw - before they wore themselves out- that Montreal's negative style of hockey also prevented Crosby and Malkin from putting up points. All I say is in that series Semin did one thing better than any other player but Ovie: he created opportunities. He didn't have anyone out there with him. He was carving out space when no one else was and in that series he did play with a lot of heart. He was giving 100% every shift doing what it is that he does.

He plays a game very much like Kane's. I don't see the difference, actually. (And I believe until game five, Kane was pretty much shut out in this series.)

Give it to the Hawks though: Seabrook and Keith were brilliant and Hossa, I believe, was MVP of the finals...


Posted by: RedLitYogi | June 10, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

A thing about the Montreal series, to keep things in perspective: the Caps dominated games 6 and 7 completely. Even Philadelphia, much better matched up with their similarly small and quick forwards, never achieved that kind of dominance. (They won the series, but they didn't dominate the action on the ice.) We had something like 180 shots attempted in two games. There was no way Wash. could've played game 6 better.

Mtl played their game to a tee, but it was a game in which their assumption always was that they couldn't play with the Caps. They didn't act as scared of either of their other opponents and even outshot the Pens in a couple of games.

But, I do think BB has to grow as a coach, and I do think we need more quickness and more hockey IQ. I think we need to do more than just play and all out vertical style all the time. I think we should be mixing up different forechecks and different breakouts so our guys will know how to do more than play at one speed. Someone posted here that they simply didn't adjust.

Semin can improve in his IQ, no doubt, and I'd like to see him buy in more. But he's still in out top five players in that regard. And he put the puck right on (who was it Knuble, Chimera?) his teammates stick right in front of the goal at the end of the game and the dude - a grinder with a heart of gold and hands of stone - flubbed the sitter completely.

Posted by: RedLitYogi | June 10, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

@ FrankM73:
Kipper is sticking with Calgary, unfortunately. Toskala is out as far as Sutter is concerned...even if he kinda messed the team up. Thomas has age and last year against him. Lundqvist will never leave NY. They need something of value. Having Varly n' Neu battle it out is unwise. Then goalie disputes erupt and although there is a sense of competition, it won't end good.

I say Niittymaki because he is an experienced G and has shown that he can be a starter. He took over the starter position from Smith in TB and managed to help turn the team around. I've seen him play at least 3-4x and he can be solid. As long as our D plays as it has been playing, he'll have our net protected.

Posted by: Siikonen-FIN- | June 10, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

seems like the only players that ever get praised here are the guys on other teams, which is pretty darned sad, actually :(


Posted by: 33spinner | June 10, 2010 6:52 PM | Report abuse

New question, anyone else worried about Varly reliability, ability to stay healthy?

Posted by: flee001 | June 10, 2010 7:19 PM | Report abuse

@33spinner:
It's not that we don't appreciate our team. In fact, it's far from that. Naturally, we as fans are going to criticize our team. You probably have fans in Chicago doing that right now...even after winning the Cup.

I think the only thing we need to work on is our goaltending. Two extremely young and slightly inexperienced goalies doesn't tend to hold well.

Posted by: Siikonen-FIN- | June 10, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

I believe if Semin is traded, which he shouldn't be, Ovechkin will have his worst goal scoring year to date. Everyone can focus on our #1 line and put 2-3 players on him entering the zone. We know he doesn't pass much and would either lose the puck or hit the shin guards. Ovie is great, but Semin makes him the best.

Posted by: Caps4Life1 | June 10, 2010 7:34 PM | Report abuse

I believe if Semin is traded, which he shouldn't be, Ovechkin will have his worst goal scoring year to date. Everyone can focus on our #1 line and put 2-3 players on him entering the zone. We know he doesn't pass much and would either lose the puck or hit the shin guards. Ovie is great, but Semin makes him the best.

Posted by: Caps4Life1

Did you ever think Semin scores so many because everybody already does focus on Ovechkin? Maybe Semin goes somewhere else and doesn't do as well? I can see it happening. Only place I would not want to see him go is Pittsburgh.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 10, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

By the way, Kovalchuk may go to Russia. If he does, Semin's value goes through the roof. LA appears desperate. There are a lot of guys from that team that I would not mind having.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 10, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse

timmy, see attached. Closer to my guess than yours. Would you call 32.3' high percentage?

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2009/playoffs/5_on_5_shots.php?sort=9&mingp=&mintoi=10&team=WSH&pos=LW

Posted by: Steve_R | June 10, 2010 4:04 PM

That shows average distance, not where the majority of shots were from. So it didn't answer what I said.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 9:42 PM | Report abuse

Frank, one year is what Semin wanted. Will poke around and see if I can find a link to that.

Posted by: Steve_R | June 10, 2010 5:07 PM

Only wanting a 1-year deal is not the same as not wanting to re-sign.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 10, 2010 10:00 PM | Report abuse

timmy: Average distance says it all. It doesn't matter where the majority of the shots came from. Unless he took a bunch of ridiculous shots from 175', 32' says the majority came from around 32'. I mean, if 10 came from 48' and 20 came from 24', averaging 32', does it matter that the absolute majority were 24'?

Now, OTOH, check charts for Knuble and Hartnell, and you know why some of us ar ready to move the six million dollar man for a center and the better part of upgrade on D.

My God. 32'? Really?

33spinner: Dude, we love the Caps, we just want to be the 2011 version of today's Chicago Blackhawks fans (my sister and her family - yes, I called and congratulated). And some of us see that the preponderance of snipers and poke-checking d-men we have won't cut the mustard.

Nobody (rational) says to blow up the team. Just move two snipers and a 3rd pair D and get a #2 center, a #3 gritty RW and a #1 pair D. Simple.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Me think if Semin is traded, he will retire and return to play in the Russian league. No way Semin will play for another NHL team.

Posted by: instinct227 | June 10, 2010 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Me think if Semin is traded, he will retire and return to play in the Russian league. No way Semin will play for another NHL team.

Posted by: instinct227 | June 10, 2010 10:06 PM | Report abuse

why? because he's treated so well by the fans here??

last I checked this ain't exactly the center of hockey universe.

Posted by: joek443 | June 10, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Capt Kirk: Very interesting article on Semin. First off, when Kovalchuk turned down the 10yr $102M offer from Atl, I said then and I repeat now that the only way he'd ever see a $10M offer again was if he was reading someone else's. The idea of Semin value compared to Kovy bat $11M is absurd. Kovy will be lucky (mark the words of nostrathomas) to see even $8M/yr come July 1st. Also, article said a player like Semin had never hit the market, alluding to Kovy being the first, but they clearly forgot Gaborik who got 37.5 for 5 (7.5M each). Anyone can look up the stats and the guy who ran against Dan Quayle might say, "I knew Gaborik, and Semin isn't Gaborik." Add the numbers, do the math, and Semin is not worth 7.5.

Mark Gandler very clearly is steering Semin toward a UFA deal or getting a UFA value deal out of the Caps. Gandler better be careful, because he's going to end up with Semin traded and then going UFA and signing in Russia and Gandler is up sh!+$ creek w/o a contract to collect on.

Sorry, Gandler, guess you'll be eating at McD's next year sucka.

Best deal for McPhee - trade Semin for a #2 center (Staal!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes!!!) and then take him back next summer as a UFA. You heard it here first. Oh, and Gandler gets fired in this scenario.

signed,
nostrathomas

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 10:24 PM | Report abuse

timmy: Average distance says it all. It doesn't matter where the majority of the shots came from. Unless he took a bunch of ridiculous shots from 175', 32' says the majority came from around 32'. I mean, if 10 came from 48' and 20 came from 24', averaging 32', does it matter that the absolute majority were 24'?

Now, OTOH, check charts for Knuble and Hartnell, and you know why some of us ar ready to move the six million dollar man for a center and the better part of upgrade on D.

My God. 32'? Really?

Your logic and math are both faulty. An average of 32' says nothing about where the majority came from. Seeing how the blue line is 64' from the goal, if a player takes 8 shots from 23' and 2 from 64', their average would be 30.4'. So, even though 8 of their shots were from 23', the majority of their shots must have been from 30.4', according to you - which is incorrect. Want to try again?

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 10:37 PM | Report abuse

OK, I'm George McPhee. On July 1st, one minute after midnight, I offer Semin a six-year extension for $33M ($5.5M/yr) but, get this, he-he, NO TRADE!

No, you're thinking, tominsocal1, on the heels of the Nylander deal, you're just plain crazy.

OK, crazy, I can accept that, if you are talking crazy in a Jim Carrey kind of way and not crazy in a unibomber kinda way.

But...think about it....from Semin's standpoint, he can't be traded away from Ovi. From the team's standpoint, the 5.5 puts the ups and downs in the middle and it isn't like with Vinny where at $8M you'll never get value.

And, if Semin turns it down, GM can say, "I really tried and the player just wasn't comfortable with the deal," kinda like it went down with Huet, and then you put Semin's arse on the first Amtrack outta town for any team that offers a bonifide #2 center.

And, from Ovi's perspective, he has "Mister Leonsis" as the person he supports most, not Semin, and who can sneeze at $33M anyway, and they move on.

And you can still sign Semin July 1, 2011 when he comes crawling back.

This isn't a sport for the spineless, not for players and not for GMs either.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 10:42 PM | Report abuse

tom, btw, you must not have noticed my position. I favor trading Semin, because of cap space. I've said so quite a few times, and have even talked with you about possibilities from it. I know we can keep him and still get what we need (again, from a discussion with you), but it doesn't seem like the smart move.

Personally, I'd like to see Semin traded for a #1D - a #2C or #3W can be gotten from free agency.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 10:44 PM | Report abuse

tom, here's the thing with Semin's shots. If the majority were really from 20-25' out, that puts most of them from the area of the faceoff circles. Is that really such a bad place to be shooting from, for a sniper like Semin? Yes, I know he didn't score any playoff goals; yes, I think he should be traded; but no, he isn't the failure and horrid player many people here make him out to be.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 10:49 PM | Report abuse

timmy; No, math wasn't faulty:

(10*48+20*24)/30 = 32

My point was that an average of 32 feet per shot requires an equal number of feet under 32 in total as over 32 feet. You can come up with any number of different total shot combos, but 32 feet from the net is still way farther than Knuble and Hartnell. Even if you have 50 shots over the 7 games and he had 20 glorious 10 foot chances, the other 30 shots have to be 47 feet each and that really is a very long and impractical shot.

In conclusion, when the average is 32 feet, the chances are you had very few good, close in shots like Hartnell or Knuble (or even Fehr) had.

Look, Semin is a sniper, a d@mned good one. But sniper's are only effective when they have a clear view. Montreal put their whole team like ten tree trunks clogging the slot and they made the Caps offense basically effete. A new strategy was needed from the world's greatest offense and none was forthcoming. Nobody wins in anything if you only have one strategy with no alternative when the path is blocked and you just keep pounding your head against the wall hoping that tomorrow the results are different. Nobody. Believe me, the stock market and me, I know.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 10:58 PM | Report abuse

One thing I would like to know is, what were those numbers Steve_R posted in reference to? They weren't all the playoff shots, because Semin took 44 - and that chart said 26.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

timmyv38:
looks like it is a breakdown of 5 on 5 shots

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 10, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

timmy: First, no dispute w/you ever. None. Just be careful on the 64 feet goal to blueline because that I think is straight up the slot.

The problem with Semin in the playoffs...he had some glorious chances close in and just plain blew it. Missed the net, so they didn't even count as shots. had Semin made MAYBE just two of his open shots, well, who knows...

OTOH, he had a bazillion shots from way outside past the dot on a sharp angle. And that's my point, Caps had tons o shots from sharp angles and a few close in open shots and they missed he d@mned open shots and the angle shots got blocked and the Habs clogged the slot so there were no close in but straight on shots.

It was the perform storm of bad scoring chances.

A million things could have gone different like Semin or Flash hitting their open nets or Knuble's goal counting or whatever. None of that takes away though from the fact that the Caps play a different style from the Flyers and Hawks and I seriously question if we can win four rounds as we are configured. The Caps remind me of the Hull n Oates Blues of the early 90s, who never won squat, although they never nearly approached 121 pts in a season.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 11:12 PM | Report abuse

tom, a few things. First, that chart doesn't cover 18 of Semin's 44 shots - it only has 5-on-5 shots, not PP or PK. If it included his PP shots, the number would fall quite a bit - he took quite a few of those from close in, but Halak made a huge number of highlight reel saves on him.

Second, I agree with most of your analysis. Semin did blow some chances, but got stoned by Halak repeatedly. Flash missed a number of chances - continuing his season-long trend. Chimera missed one or two. Heck, even Ovie and Backstrom missed some great chances.

Third, I think we both agree that we need more in front of the net play. Knuble gives that, Fehr usually does, Chimera can, Laich occasionally does... when he's not trying to be a finesse player. To me, Laich has to take a share of the blame from Semin being scoreless. Had he played in front of the net - which he has shown himself to be fully capable of - Halak wouldn't have seen some of Semin's shots, and Semin would have had a few goals.

Pretty much, I think we'd be better with a 2nd line of Laich-Fehr with a #2 center who has decent set-up ability. And I would love to see Fehr get more PP time. When he gets in front of the goalie, he's not easy to move - and he has the hands to convert those opportunities.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 11:25 PM | Report abuse

BTW, I can clearly defend offering Semin 5.5 over 6 yrs as there are two really good comparables DSedin 6.1 and MCammalleri 6.0 and then all you are asking is a 10% hometown discount (in exchange for no trade) just like Backie took (and he didn't even get NTC).

I have no proof but I'm guessing McPhee offered Semin 5.5 for 6 $33M total and Semin scoffed so McPhee leaned back in his chair (Gandler eating a Big Mac) and folded his arms and said, "Here's six for one and we'll work it next spring," and Gandler and Semin smiled cuz they thought they got their way but the piper must be paid and when McPhee went back to his office and closed the door and called his wife and when she asked how it was going, he said, "I'm going to trade him for a #2 center next summer."

And, as George Allen, once said, the future is now.

Alexander Semin: pack your bags.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 11:26 PM | Report abuse

when you look at the entire team - semin distance isn't that far out of line
i would think laich and knuble distance would be less than 25-26 ft.
longer distance shots don't have a high percentage - but these stats will never tell you if the goalie was screened, who was (or wasn't) in front of the net looking for a rebound.
that being said, i can recall times when he would fly down the wing, gain the zone by himself and fire away if he had any kind of look. but even those are ok if the bench is calling for a line shift.

25.5 JASON CHIMERA
25.8 BROOKS LAICH
25.8 TOMAS FLEISCHMANN
26.8 MIKE KNUBLE
29.5 NICKLAS BACKSTROM
30.1 BRENDAN MORRISON
32.3 ERIC BELANGER
32.3 ALEXANDER SEMIN
34.9 ALEX OVECHKIN
42.3 JOHN CARLSON
45.0 TOM POTI
46.8 SHAONE MORRISONN
50.1 MIKE GREEN
53.7 JEFF SCHULTZ
58.0 JOE CORVO
n/a KARL ALZNER
n/a TYLER SLOAN

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 10, 2010 11:32 PM | Report abuse

timmy: The sad thing about Laich is if he played as well vs Habs as he did vs Flyers back in '08, well, who knows...

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 11:32 PM | Report abuse

Capt Kirk: Interesting data. I would have never thought avg shot distance would be so far for Knuble. OTOH, for the whole team, as the Moody Blues (not the St Louis Blues) might say, every shot distance average tells a story.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 10, 2010 11:49 PM | Report abuse

Knuble isn't adverse to taking some long wristers... I think he surprises goalies when he does so, seeing how badly some of them react to that lol.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 10, 2010 11:55 PM | Report abuse

here's mtl just for a comparision
26.6 MAXIM LAPIERRE
27.7 TOMAS PLEKANEC
28.0 TRAVIS MOEN
28.8 DOMINIC MOORE
31.5 ANDREI KOSTITSYN
33.5 MICHAEL CAMMALLERI
35.3 BENOITP OULIOT
36.2 SCOTT GOMEZ
37.2 BRIAN GIONTA
53.8 ANDREI MARKOV
54.3 JOSH GORGES
55.1 HAL GILL
55.4 JAROSLAV SPACEK
55.9 MARC-ANDRE BERGERON
56.4 ROMAN HAMRLIK
58.1 RYAN O'BYRNE
59.9 P.K. SUBBAN

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 11, 2010 1:17 AM | Report abuse

avg distance per shot during playoffs using only forwards with 15 or more shots:
31.1
of 91 players semin was at 52, ovi at 72
i don't view 32.3 as excessive now

also - it looks like missed shots are being counted (there were two players with 0 shots and a couple of missed shots and they had a distance avg)

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 11, 2010 1:54 AM | Report abuse

Timmy, attached is the shot chart for Semin.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/capitals/shot-chart/

Posted by: Steve_R | June 11, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

our defense is about all finesse and most of our forwards too.

I'll give you that our defense is not very gritty, but our offense, I just don't understand. They may not be as gritty as you'd like, but they're not finesse players. I think what you mean is that we need better players, not that we necessarily need to be grittier.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | June 11, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

TheDoubleAlex,

Who besides Bradley, Ovie, and sometimes Chimera do you consider gritty amongst our forwards?? The rest of the 3rd and 4th liners may be considered decent forecheckers but are FAR, FAR from gritty.

Posted by: PhilR | June 11, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

First of all, he went scoreless against the Penguins last year in the playoffs as well. Second, there is plenty of reason to get rid of him: need for d, need for 2c, contract expires end of year, valuable trade asset, locker room distraction going into trade deadline, cap relief.

Semin will be moved. Get used to the idea.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 10, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Yes, he didn't score a goal against Pitt last year, but he had 6 assists in the 7 games. Not a great series, but still not that bad. Most of the reasons you list are the same, and they're not compelling. We have some cap room. We don't need to get rid of him. We can keep him and bring in a 2C and a d-man and still be under the cap. If it's a matter of getting an amazing 2C or d-man for him, fine, but only if it's the right deal. And saying he's a locker-room distraction is just silly.

He might well be moved, but that's not the point. The point is that he's very valuable to this team. Flash should go. I don't think he's worth keeping. Semin should only go if it's for a very good reason, not just to get rid of him.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | June 11, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Don't think anyone is saying to get rid of Semin just to get rid of him. He is the one piece we have that can bring back a stellar #2C or #1D that is somewhat expendable. No one has said to trade Semin for a bag of pucks, haven't heard that once.

Posted by: PhilR | June 11, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Timmy, attached is the shot chart for Semin.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/capitals/shot-chart/

Posted by: Steve_R | June 11, 2010 8:57 AM |

Thank you, that is actually exactly the type of thing I was looking for. What that chart shows for Semin is a fair number of shots from inside of 20' (looks like 12 out of 42), 4 shots from 20-30', 8-10 shots from 30-40' (it doesn't show distances from Game 1), and about half his shots from 40'+.

I am seeing a bit of a pattern. In Games 3 and 4, which the Caps won, 2 out of his 4 shots each game were from within 20'. In Games 1, 5, and 6, his distance shot up. And in Game 7, 3 of his 8 were from within 20', but all the rest were from 30'+ - including a 79' from mid-ice, which kind of throws the stats off. Pretty much, in the games which the Caps won, Semin was able to get in closer for shots, but he was kept further out in the games the Caps lost. Game 2 is the only one that doesn't fit the pattern.

But what really gets me is, look at - for the entire Caps team - how few shots in Games 5-7 were close to the crease, as opposed to Games 2-4. Game 4 does have a bit more scatter to the shots, but that was also the 1 game that Price started.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 11, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

We have some cap room. We don't need to get rid of him. We can keep him and bring in a 2C and a d-man and still be under the cap.

The cap space the Caps have available now might be able to sign a D and C but they would not be the quality this team needs...this team NEEDS a legit #2C and #1D...to use the cap room they have now they might as well just pull up a C and D from Hershey because they would most likely be on the same skill level.

Posted by: PhilR | June 11, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

I think you guys defeated me on the shot distance discussion thing. Uncle. Semin was high, but only slightly above avg. Then again, the data is somewhat tricky if it includes missed shots as those are generally from a longer distance.

Still, timmy, your analysis is what we thought - Caps were getting many shots in games 5-7 but not good ones. The Habs clogged the slot just like the Texans did to Hershey a few games back. Habs let Caps have a shooting gallery from way outside. As we've said, snipers are usually only effective when they can see the twine. Otherwise, frustrated, as the caps were, they just fired shots after shot into the other team's legs. Had the caps kept playing like in games 2-4 (or had Habs kept playing like they did), Caps would have won.

Habs adjusted, Caps did not.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 11, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

@Siikonen-FIN-:

I think they go into the season with Varly and Neuvy based on the cap and time is split based on which goalie is hot. Granted it's a little risky but they might view it as more important to get that #2 D (no clue who) and #2 C (Lombardi) to support the offense and strengthen the Defense.

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 11, 2010 10:31 AM | Report abuse

IF either Miller or Lundquvist (spelling sorry) are made available to the Caps for a package involving Semin, Young Goalie ... do you take it?

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

@flee001:

as you said, Semin and either Beuvy or Varly for:

Lundqvist - No!
Miller - YES!

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 11, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Caps could give up Alzner, Flash, Semin, Varly/Neuvy and picks for Miller. I would do Varley and make Neuvy backup.

Buffalo is a team that needs more than their traditional amazing goalie. I love dreaming.

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

@ PhilR -

I consider Laich, Fehr and Fehr to be gritty, along with those you mentioned.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | June 11, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

@PhilR -

The talk I hear about Semin is taht we should get rid of him because he's not worth $6 mil, and look at his playoff performance. That's what I'm responding to. Everyone just wants to get rid of him. There's no need to. If a great deal comes along, go for it, but I'd say that for everyone but Nicky and Alex.

I'd rather get rid of Poti's $3.5 mil than Semin's $6 mil. Even if we keep Semin, resign Fehr, Schultz and Belanger, we'd still have $7+ mil for a 2C and d-man. I'd say that should get us two pretty damn good players. Would an extra $6 mil get us better players? Sure, but calling a $4 mil center and $3 mil d-man no better than call-ups from Hershey is inaccurate.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | June 11, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

TheDoubleAlex,

My cap figures show they have about 10 mil left under the cap (if I am missing something please let me know)....Schultz I think will get 2-2.5 mil, same as Fehr and Belanger about 1.5....that only leaves about 4.5 mil according to my figures, once again...please let me know if I am off but I am going off the JapersRink excel spreadsheet.

Posted by: PhilR | June 11, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

And...I won't argue with you over Laich and Fehr, I really don't consider them gritty players. Do they have gritty moments? yes. Is it consistent? Not in my opinion.

Posted by: PhilR | June 11, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

If the Caps have any hopes of re-upping with UFA's they need and getting a top 4 D and 2C then Semin has to be traded. All the increased salaries prevent the keeping of Semin and getting a 2D and 2C.

Now GMGM may give another older C a shot at low cost or a kid from Hershey but is it worth the risk?

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

@flee001:

"Caps could give up Alzner, Flash, Semin, Varly/Neuvy and picks for Miller. I would do Varley and make Neuvy backup. "
-----

I think this is too much...

Semin, Varly, Poti, and maybe the 2011 1st
for
Miller

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 11, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

@tominsocal

I like you're thinking: 5.5 is a fair offer for 5 years. And if he doesn't bite, then the team gets creds with its most important figure, Ovie.

As for his bad playoff showing: Semin was brilliant in the series against the Flyers (one of the best series this team has played) and important against the Rangers, particularly in being key in their first win. He had a broken thumb against Pittsburgh and was essentially a decoy. When he's on the ice, the opposition has to devote resources to stopping him.

But, yes, I would trade Semin for Miller, who wouldn't? But can we afford Miller?

Posted by: RedLitYogi | June 11, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

@flee001:
I think Perreault and Gordon are ready for the team... and I'm pulling for Bourque (he certainly has gotten progressively better in the past 3 years in the A)

I like signing Belanger and getting rid of Steckel, as Belange is Steckel but with offensive upside.

Lomardi would fit nicely as the caps #2 C, then Belanger at #3 C, and GOrdon at #4 C... with Perreault getting some OJT.
I don't think Semin is traded, I think Flash and maybe a D are in a package for a #2 D...

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 11, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Miller is 6.25 cap hit for the next 4 years...

would you be able to afford argueably the best goalie in the league behind the top offense?

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 11, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Miller allows the Caps to trade Varley, passing Semin gives them cap space. This will shed goals from the O but makes the D stronger. A Saku on a 2 year deal now makes sense as you bring up younger guys from PA.

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I still consider Fehr and Laich gritty. I think they have to work more on being consistent, but they're still gritty to me.

As for the cap:

They have 8 forwards, 6 d-men (including Alzner, Carlson and Sloan) and the two young goalies signed for next season. They add up to about $44.5 mil. Assuming the cap goes up $2 mil (as rumored), that would leave them with about $14 mil to sign probably 5 forwards and 1 d-man. If they re-sign Fehr at about 2.5 and Belanger at about 1.5, and then another LW at about 1.2, along with Schultz for about 2, that leaves them with $6.8 mil, still needing a forward (to be the thirteenth). Then, if you want to bring in another d-man, he would replace one of the seven already signed, so you'd drop at least $.7 mil.

I'm going by nhlnumbers.com, so it's possible that the numbers aren't exact, but they're generally pretty accurate.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | June 11, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

flash/d/pick(s) to chicago for byfuglien or sharp. a laich/sharp/semin second line would be incredibly strong. im not sure where byfuglien would fit in, but his ability to play D/up front would be nice to have.

Posted by: brian58 | June 11, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

I change my mind...

Semin, Fleischmann, Varly, + a pick (maybe)
for
Miller

not Poti...

2010-11 WASHINGTON CAPITALS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Alexander Ovechkin ($9.538m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Mike Knuble ($2.800m)
Brooks Laich ($2.067m) / * Eric Belanger ($1.875m) / * Eric Fehr ($2.500m)
Jason Chimera ($1.875m) / Mathieu Perreault ($0.717m) / Matt Bradley ($1.000m)
* Chris Bourque ($0.635m) / * Boyd Gordon ($0.850m) / * Andrew Gordon ($0.667m)
Dave Steckel ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Mike Green ($5.250m) / * Jeff Schultz ($2.250m)
Tom Poti ($3.500m) / * FA Defenseman ($3.500m)
Karl Alzner ($1.675m) / John Carlson ($0.846m)
John Erskine ($1.250m) / Tyler Sloan ($0.700m)

GOALTENDERS
* Ryan Miller ($6.250m) / Michal Neuvirth ($0.822m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(no bonus cushion is used in these calculations)
ROSTER: 23; CAP:$58.7m; PAYROLL: $58.366m; CAP ROOM: $0.334m


Thoughts?

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 11, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

They have 8 forwards, 6 d-men (including Alzner, Carlson and Sloan) and the two young goalies signed for next season. They add up to about $44.5 mil. Assuming the cap goes up $2 mil (as rumored), that would leave them with about $14 mil to sign probably 5 forwards and 1 d-man. If they re-sign Fehr at about 2.5 and Belanger at about 1.5, and then another LW at about 1.2, along with Schultz for about 2, that leaves them with $6.8 mil, still needing a forward (to be the thirteenth). Then, if you want to bring in another d-man, he would replace one of the seven already signed, so you'd drop at least $.7 mil.

I'm going by nhlnumbers.com, so it's possible that the numbers aren't exact, but they're generally pretty accurate.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex

So you would spend all the way to the cap and leave no wiggle room to make moves at the deadline or is that when you would dump the Semin salary? I was actaully leaving about a 2 mil cushion to make moves if needed at the deadline, ie...bring in a vet goalie if the kids don't look good, a gritty vet forward or d with a good playoff resume, etc.

I guess what you have laid out would work if you could get an older 2nd line center to sign for around 2mil (maybe Koivu) and get a 3mil dman (who knows Hamhuis may be available in that range). Nice to hear other ideas without a bunch of "yelling"...thanks for the civil hockey debate!

Posted by: PhilR | June 11, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Frank, that would be tight on cap, especially if it goes down at all and essentially means there is zero room for changes ... but with Miller, wow!

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

@flee001:

Yeah, it would be really cap tight! It all depends on what Fehr, Flash and Schultz get for RFA raises. If reasonable, then a second pairing D becomes easier.

Still, the Miller scenario is likely extremely far fetched, and we lose some offense but heck if we don't gain much more balance all through the lineup. Offense and Goaltending are very good and Defense is more solid than last year...

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 11, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Have you ever thought that Semin only wanted the short-term contract because Caps have never supplied him with a good center to connect with(besides Feds)? And still he's almost a PPG-player through his career.
And i would rather have Semin's 24 pts in 28 PO-games than Fehr's 6 pts in 21 PO-games going in to next season.

I personally think that Semin might have some good chemistry with Lombardi, thanks to his speed and good hands.
I think we can get some decent value for Fehr if we trade him instead. As of now Fehr is on the third line on the Caps, while he might be a #2 RW on some other team, same goes for flash..

So who is this legit #2 C everbody wants us to trade Semin for?
I love the suggested trade, Flash for Clutterbuck

And Fehr, Steckel & Erskine could be used to bump up our #1 pick a little bit or trade for a gritty winger.

Ovi-Backs-Knuble
Semin-Lombardi-Laich
X -Perreault-Clutterbuck
Bradley-B.Gordon-Chimera
A.Gordon

X -Poti
Schultz-Green
Alzner-Carlson
Sloan

Varly-Neuvy

Total Caphit: $51.817m

If the CBA goes up it leaves us enough to sign i.e. Volchenkov and fit a gritty #3 Winger.

And if it doesn't work with MP or the goailesituation we can trade for something else at the deadline. I mean, it doesn't matter if we finish 1st or 8th during the regular season. We learned that the hard way.

Posted by: Walle | June 11, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

@Walle,

I would keep Steckel over B Gordon with his back issues. I say we cut ties with Gordon now before Ted is stuck paying him to sit on the sidelines nursing his back permanently.

And, in your scenario....How much is Lombardi making per year and how many years do you have him signed??

Posted by: PhilR | June 11, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Carlson - Alzner number one D pair.....someone needs to crush mike green so he's out of the picture because he = plauge in the playoffs

Posted by: velo_matt | June 11, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Miller is not going anywhere. This Eklund rumor has gotten out of control. Kipper is signed thru for far too many years.

The only high-name goalie the Caps should think about trading for is Vokoun. And I beleive we don't even need him.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 11, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Problem with Vokoun is he's not in the untouchable category, hell he was up for trade last season. He has 1yr at 5.7 mil left but he makes no sense with the young keepers for Caps. I'd rather see them ride the young guys for a full season while saving Semin or whoever else.

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Miller is not going anywhere. This Eklund rumor has gotten out of control. Kipper is signed thru for far too many years.

The only high-name goalie the Caps should think about trading for is Vokoun. And I beleive we don't even need him.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 11, 2010 12:55 PM


For those new(ish) to this blog:

"Eklund Rumor" = Ain't gonna happen. Ever.

Posted by: Rhino40 | June 11, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

I still think the Caps get
Anton Volchenkov and a 2nd tier 2C

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Freaking Chicken Little Eklund. Funny thing is he post just about every scenario for every team no matter what so he's always right ... wrong 1,000 times, but right once.

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

How about bringing in JovoCop from PHX to add some "mean" to the d-corps--what are his contract & cap numbers? I think he has one year left on a five-year, $32.5 million deal that was signed in '06, which should expire in July of next year.

Thoughts, anyone?

Posted by: Rhino40 | June 11, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Problem with Vokoun is he's not in the untouchable category, hell he was up for trade last season. He has 1yr at 5.7 mil left but he makes no sense with the young keepers for Caps. I'd rather see them ride the young guys for a full season while saving Semin or whoever else.

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 1:41 PM |

Again, people are following Eklund's stupid rumor far too much. Because Eklund used the word "untouchable" everyone keeps clinging to that being the deciding factor. If he used the word "elite goaltender", which he should have instead, then all these semantic discussions about "untouchable" goalies would end.


How does he make no sense, as opposed to someone like Kipper who is signed thru for 52 more years? I would think a pending UFA goalie would be the #1 target over someone like Kipper or Miller. You're telling me, with all the young goalies we have, it makes more sense to trade for someone who is signed thru than for someone who is a pending UFA after next year? It's sort of a trick question, because the real answer is that trading for any goalie pretty much doesn't make sense for the Caps.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 11, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

@flee001...I guess that's true, based on the proverbially blind proverbial squirrel proverbially finding the proverbial nut once in a proverbial while...LOL.

Posted by: Rhino40 | June 11, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Just got a notification for presale tickets to this year's Caps Convention on October 2nd. It says they will be unveiling the new sweater that the team will wear for the Winter Classic.

hmmm.

Posted by: saintex | June 11, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

no goalie, we need top 4 D and 2C

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Eh, I'm not the biggest Jovanovski fan. He's been on the downslide for years.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 11, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

@richmondphil

so, you mean Jovo had an upside??

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | June 11, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

I guess what you have laid out would work if you could get an older 2nd line center to sign for around 2mil (maybe Koivu) and get a 3mil dman (who knows Hamhuis may be available in that range). Nice to hear other ideas without a bunch of "yelling"...thanks for the civil hockey debate!

Posted by: PhilR | June 11, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

I think if we keep Semin, our 2C doesn't have to be the best. He should be good, and better than Morrison, but with Semin still here, he wouldn't have to have huge offensive production. So, I think someone like Koivu could work, if we keep Semin.

I wouldn't want to go right to the cap limit. If you take off Erskine's 1.25, that gives us about 8 mil, so that we could still spend 5.5-6 on a 2c and D and have a little wiggle room later on. However, yes, I think that Semin's contract should be looked at as a deadline-time thing. If at that point, we need some space, and feel like we can spare him for what we can get, then go for it.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | June 11, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

When he was younger, yes.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 11, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

@thedoublealex

why get rid of erskine? he's a bargain at 1.25 million and when healthy, he's a nasty, mean, physical dman....i say keep erskine, dump shultz and sloan, and w/the money saved get another dman of erskine's ilk

Posted by: vermontcaps | June 11, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Question to ALL:

To which Chacago RFA's (if any) would you try to sign to an offer sheet?

Ladd, Andrew » RFA - $1.6m
Skille, Jack » RFA - $1.3m
Eager, Ben » RFA - $1.0m
Davis, Nathan » RFA - $0.8m
Brophey, Evan » RFA - $0.8m
Niemi, Antti » RFA - $0.8m
Brennan, Mike » RFA - $0.8m
Fraser, Colin » RFA - $0.7m
Hjalmarsson, Niklas » RFA - $0.6m
Hendry, Jordan » RFA - $0.6m
Toivonen, Hannu » RFA - $0.6m
Sawyer, Jean-Claude » RFA - $0.5m
Hobson, Adam » RFA - $0.5m
Bickell, Bryan » RFA - $0.5m
MacArthur, Peter » RFA - $0.5m

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 11, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

I don't know many teams who would consider their 7/8th d-man a "bargain" at 1.25 mil.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 11, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

1.25 should not sit during playoffs, that was sad, just sad. Actually why are we not questioning BB. He made no changes in playoffs, bad coaching.

As for Chi RFA's I'd pass on all. Thing about Caps is they need a late 20's, early 30's top 4 D not some more young pups to go with all them Hershey Kisses we already have.

Vokoun, cost, years left would work trade wise, maybe Flash and another youngster. He then has chance to lead Caps in playoffs or become trade bait himself. I would not however give up Semin for him or a young keeper.

Final question, who would be potential suitor for one of our young goalies and what would return be?

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

I absolutely don't understand the logic behind wanting to trade for a goalie at this time either...especially when we have--not just one but two--competent young netminders ready to fill the void left by Theo's (presumed)imminent departure.

I suspect this meme is coming from the same "all-or-nothing" folks who consider last season to be entirely devoid of any amount of success--in any form--based on the Caps' early exit from the playoffs.

These types feel that the only acceptable Caps' goaltender is he who has a 1.000000 save percentage, a 0.000000 goals-againt, and can stay healthy not only through 82 regular season games but also dominate through the playoffs.

I say unto them: "fuggeddaboudit!" and "Let's please not be like Yankees/Habs fans!"

In today's NHL such a goalie is not named Miller or Vokoun or Kiprusoff or Lundqvist or Halak...or even Quick, Mason, Thomas, etc.

In point of fact, such a goalie does not exist.

Respectfully,
Das Rhino

Posted by: Rhino40 | June 11, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

@FrankM73:

From that list, I guess I'd go for Hjalmarsson, Eager, and Ladd--but except for the Swede I'm not fmiliar with what positions they play.

Two questions though:
1) would these fill the Caps' needs, and
2) What would the Caps have to give up for them?

Posted by: Rhino40 | June 11, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Forget all the goalie talk ... forget even Semin ... Das Rhino what beautiful formatting you bring to this conversation, lets talk about that

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

@vermontcaps -

We don't have to get rid of Erskine, but I'm assuming after last season, they're going to keep Schultz. They're definitely not getting rid of Green or Alzner or Carlson, and Sloan Poti are probably staying, so I figure Erskine would be the one to go. I don't mind if he stays, but if they trade for a D-man, I'd guess he'd be the one to get traded.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | June 11, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

@FrankM73:

I take some of that back:

--Eager is a LW and we have LW's up the wazoo.
--ditto Ladd.

I'd keep Hjalmarron on the wish-list, and instead of the above pair:

--If Fraser has good speed, good vision and good hands, we can use him on the 2nd line.
--Also take Hendry.

Posted by: Rhino40 | June 11, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Final question, who would be potential suitor for one of our young goalies and what would return be?

Posted by: flee001

St. Louis. I would imagine you could get something pretty good. Maybe package he and Flash.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 11, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

@dasrhino:
since they are RFA's, just the appropriate pick for what offer sheet they sign with us...

personally, I'd be interested in Hjalmarsson, but not sure what price to offer, or if Chicago would match. he would upgrade the D but maybe not at the level most here want.

agreed on the goalie thing not happening... both ours are dirt cheap and unless a Miller is coming back, it ain't happening.

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 11, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

To render in ITALICS:

1) precede the text to be italicized with the sequence "" ("'greater-than' symbol"). These should be run together without spaces)NOTE: most of the other blogs on WaPo don't allow this.
2) type the text which is to be italicized.
3) the following sequence should immediately follow that text: "" ("'greater-than' symbol"). These should be run together without spaces.

To format text in boldface, follow the above steps, substitiuting the letter "b" for the letter "i".

Bold and Italics can also be combined...I'll let you figure that one out based on the above instructions.

Enjoy.

Posted by: Rhino40 | June 11, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Correction on the italics instructions:

1) precede the text to be italicized with the following symbols (no spaces between them and no quotes; the first symbol is described in parentheses because it won't display correctly here):
("less-than symbol")
"I"
">"
2) Type the text you want itlicized.
3) Type the following symbols (again with no spaces between and no quotes):
("greater-than symbol")
"/"
"i"
">"

Again, procedure for boldface is the same, except substitute the letter "b" for the letter "i".

These can be combined.

Posted by: Rhino40 | June 11, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

<i>italics</i>
<b>bold</b>
<i><b>bold italics</b></i>

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 11, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Walle: I invented the Flash for Clutterbuck thing, in conjunction with Semin to Pitt for Staal, Erskine for a pick and sign Volchenkov as UFA. It's cap neutral and it solves the three biggest needs the club has: #1D, #2C and #3RW (for a true checking line).

I like Semin but we're overloaded with snipers and any time in sports you are overloaded in one spot and lacking in another, you trade.

We're like a baseball team with two 2B and two SS but no third baseman or first baseman. So, do you play guys out of position? No, you trade. Corner and middle infielders are different kinds of players, just like snipers and checkers in hockey.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 11, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Ah, good times, will be handy to use these when calling out a prior post.

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

@PhilR

I had Lombardi at 2,5 (maybe a little low for a UFA)... for two years maybe. I don't want to close the opportunity for MJ or MP to fill that spot in the future for less money.

And regarding Steckel/Gordon, i Chose Gordo bc he's cheaper and was really good in the playoffs, plus he's good on the PK. Even though i know he's injuryprone.

Posted by: Walle | June 11, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

@tominsocal1

Yes, i know it's yours, it's a good trade for both sides IMHO!

Overloaded on snipers? if we trade flash like we both want, and like in my suggestion, Fehr also, then we'd only have Ovi and Semin.
Laich no, Backs playmaker, #2 C vacant, Knuble no, Chimera no, Bradley no, Steckel no, Gordon no, MP no, Clutterbuck no.
I think we need a sniper in both our first lines, and Fehr isn't even close to Semins level.

And baseball-tactics is waaay over my head, i'm swedish and have watch one game (When Rockies lost a few years ago) :)

Posted by: Walle | June 11, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

@tominsocal1, @flee01, others...

I'm wondering whether they don't have a good center in mind now. Very quite right now about BMo and Belanger, so maybe they're not biting on Volchenkov (too pricey?) to save the bucks. The free agent list is not very promising this year, but I think some pretty good centers hit the market next year.

Also, re:#28. I think his trade value is a little limited, in any event. Conventional wisdom would have him bolting the NHL rather than playing for any other team, so who would want him? (Maybe Pittsburgh or whoever signs Kovalchuk...or Montreal. Not many places for him.) He, Flash, and Laich hit a dominant streak in January. If we can teach Flash to win some draws maybe we can get through next year with that tandem.

BTW, I like Aucoin's skills as a potential center (seems like a helluva player from what little I can make out of the Blair Witch project telecasts of the Calder Cup finals) but a guy like that is completely useless unless he gets time on the top two lines. (Would like to see what he could do there...)

Posted by: RedLitYogi | June 11, 2010 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Walle: I'd love to keep Semin if we can get a hometown discount like with Backie. Deal would be like 5.5/yr. Problem is the comparable players are 6-6.1 and the next level up is Gaborik at 7.5. Semin really isn't far off Gaborik's production. We don't know what went down in the negotiations last winter, but agent Mark Gandler's quotes seem to imply he's out squeeze every last penny out of some team. Problem for the Caps is Semin is truly worth more to a team that lacks scoring. Just like Flash. Having three #1 line wingers (Ovi, Semin, Knuble) isn't as important as having two quality centers (right now we have a #1 center and a bunch of #4 centers) nor is it as important as a #1 defensive defenseman.

I respectfully disagree on Fehr. Long term, we are a better club with Fehr at 2.5 for the next few years and a top d-man at 4.5 than Semin at 7.0.

If this is the NBA, you keep Semin and pay the luxury tax, but the cap is hard (except for Pronger and Hossa).

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 11, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Yogi: I'm higher on Aucoin than most here. Everytime he comes up, he puts up good points per minute. Then the team plays the game of not wanting to use him so he doesn't have to go through re-entry waivers until in the end he doesn't get used. I think he gets $525K next year no matter where he plays so bring him up as the 13th forward. It's hard to slot him though. He's weak on draws and gets battled off the puck, but effective on the PP. He could be a #4 (energy line) center/wing with Brads and Gordo if you moved Steckel. It would save .575. You'd absolutely need though to have a top #2 center and a Belanger type for #3 so you'd have strength on faceoffs.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 11, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

I agree that 6 mill is a lot for a second line winger, though 2,8 is cheap so it evens out in my opinion (almost what the team average is for 24 players 56,8/24 = 2,3666)

And it would be perfect if he takes the hometown discount at what you claim should be 5,5. So i think we should atleast wait until the trade deadline to get rid of his contract.

I think Fehr for Clarkson would be a great deal for us. We need more grit, NJ needs more scoring, and only have four defenders signed for next year, so add Erskine to the deal if they want something more.
Clarkson had 11+13 in 46 games, to go along with 99 hits and 85 pim. Would fit perfect with Clutterbuck on our third line. He's a RFA at $837,500. "His knack for fighting and precise checking combined with his speed and aggression has made him popular with fans in New Jersey."

Posted by: Walle | June 11, 2010 6:49 PM | Report abuse

*I meant that knuble is almost at team average

* And about Semin, to wait and see if he's willing to sign the longterm then, maybe he changes his mind if he gets a legit #2C to play with.

does anyone have a stream-link for the bears game btw?

Posted by: Walle | June 11, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

they had an estimated crowd of 2 million people at the parade for the hawks today in chicago... in comparison only about 350K people showed up for the white sox parade after they won the world series a few years ago.

Posted by: joek443 | June 11, 2010 7:40 PM | Report abuse

stars score on a PP. 1-0

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 11, 2010 8:52 PM | Report abuse

1-0 stars after 1

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 11, 2010 9:14 PM | Report abuse

Bears on Comcast if you have that channel

Posted by: flee001 | June 11, 2010 9:26 PM | Report abuse

I dont recide in north america :/ but thanks!

Posted by: Walle | June 11, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse

bouchard scores seconds after a PP ends. 1-1

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 11, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

1-1 after 2

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 11, 2010 10:08 PM | Report abuse

I'm doing my part to support the Bears. Dinner tonight:

ribeye steak
baked potato
peas
Napa Cab

for dessert:

HERSHEY'S Dark Chocolate squares

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 11, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

GIROUX!!!

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 11, 2010 11:43 PM | Report abuse

awesome game - way to go giroux

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 11, 2010 11:44 PM | Report abuse

GIROUX GIROUX GIROUX GIROUUUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. Game set match. Three straight in Texas. Bring it home guys. Let's wrap it up on Monday.

Posted by: Jonathan6 | June 11, 2010 11:46 PM | Report abuse

and good going Comcast Sports Net for picking up the remaining game(s) of the series.

Posted by: pachanga74 | June 11, 2010 11:58 PM | Report abuse

Bears win in OT. Giroux with the game winner. He had been struggling in this series. He was shooting but nothing would go in. He was taking bad penalties. I had dubbed him "Mauvais Sasha", as a result. (Mauvais is the French word for bad.)

But now he's the hero.

Way to go, Giroux, the man they call Roo. (Almost surprised someone hasn't called him Kanga yet.)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | June 12, 2010 12:05 AM | Report abuse

@tominsocal1

Your dinner choices for the Bears worked incredibly well since they won. The dessert (of Hershey's dark chocolate) worked especially well.

So what will you do for Game 6?

Posted by: CapsFan75 | June 12, 2010 12:10 AM | Report abuse

Carlson +2 and Neuvirth clutch in net again in OT. Both big game pressure players. That's what Cup winning players are all about. They will have long NHL careers.

Posted by: dull | June 12, 2010 12:17 AM | Report abuse

Congrats to the Bears! Great game tonight! Nice way to showcase AHL hockey and future Caps to N. America, and def happy for the fans in Hershey who may get to see their boys take home the Cup on home ice.

On another note, good to see CSN/NHL Network broadcasting the games. Has anyone seen any ratings posted? Hope CSN gets some numbers so maybe they'll consider showing the occasional Bears game next season.

LET'S GO BEARS!!!

Posted by: MetalCapsFan | June 12, 2010 12:18 AM | Report abuse

I know I'm not the first person to ask this question but how on Earth was Jamie Benn, who played every game with the parent Dallas Stars able to play with the Texas Stars for their playoff run?

Didn't players have to play a certain number of games on the farm team? Not to mention be on their Clear Day roster.

How did a player of his productivity not get picked until the Fifth Round? (And how did we miss him? Except even if we had him, he would never have gotten a chance since we're loaded in wingers but he can play center also....)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | June 12, 2010 8:39 AM | Report abuse

How come the Post doesn't have any coverage of the Bears? C'mon buy Tarik a ticket and give him some gas money.

Posted by: rjma1 | June 12, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

his salary is not going to go from 775K to 3 mil a season if he gets a deal bigger than 5 mil for 3 season he should take it ..the NHL is not the NBA or NFL

Posted by: heathdog1119 | June 12, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

CF75: Brown wine is out of the question.

Too bad we are in the hotel, because I could be watching on NHL Network. My TV is in storage, probably crying because it is unplugged and unhappy.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 12, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

@tominsocal1

Yes, I get the "brown wine" reference. I know you normally drink white wine for Caps away games and red for home games.

But would drinking hot chocolate (made with real Hershey's cocoa) be a good beverage of choice in honor of the Bears? I think so.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | June 12, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

his salary is not going to go from 775K to 3 mil a season if he gets a deal bigger than 5 mil for 3 season he should take it ..the NHL is not the NBA or NFL

Posted by: heathdog1119 | June 12, 2010 10:02 AM

His salary will probably go up to $2.25-2.5M. He should not settle for less than $2M. He is a 20-goal scorer, and has potential to be 25-30 goals per season. Salaries jump like that all the time - it's called the expiration of the rookie contract.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 12, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

What really impresses me with Fehr is how much his productivity jumped from last season. 2008-9, he played about 686 minutes in 61 games, and had 12-13-25. 2009-10, 837 minutes in 69 games, and 21-18-39. With a 22% increase in minutes, he had a 75% increase in goals, 38% increase in assists, and 56% increase in points. Imagine if he had gone up to 2nd line minutes, which would have been doubling his minutes from 2008-9 - both Semin and Laich had about 1400 minutes.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 12, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

It's quiet. Does anyone else think the Caps may move Green to forward this offseason?

Posted by: underpants2 | June 12, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Also, it looks like Calgary is going to need to deal a dman in order to sign White and Giordano.

Regher for Flash and a 3rd? Would it take more?

Posted by: underpants2 | June 12, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

I will be watching from the upper bowl at the Giant Center Monday night the play of Neuvirth, Carlson and Alzner. All of whom will be central to the Caps chances of winning the Stanley Cup in 11. Neuvy is really heating it up. In the Calder Cup playoffs so far he is 6-1 in OT stopping 21 of 22 shots in over 57 minutes of overtime. If you're going to win a Cup at any level you need a goalie who is not fazed by sudden death OT.

Posted by: dull | June 12, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Stanley Cup week and Calder Cup week, and no updates from Post since the "Fehr talks Extension thing?

Posted by: kcbrichmond | June 12, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

It's quiet. Does anyone else think the Caps may move Green to forward this offseason?

Posted by: underpants2 | June 12, 2010 4:02 PM

No. While he's not the best dman, I don't see any chance of him being moved.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 12, 2010 7:16 PM | Report abuse

No. If you moved Green to forward, you'd immediately need a first pair, offensive defenseman. He is no different in talent, performance and salary than Gonchar.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 12, 2010 7:38 PM | Report abuse

As if the Hawks didn't have enough cap trouble... from nhl.com:

"Oddly enough, making Bowman's job even more difficult is that captain Jonathan Toews won the Conn Smythe Trophy as playoff MVP, which kicks in a $1.3 million bonus in his contract that counts against the cap. That amount alone could be worth a solid player."

Think we can get a couple players from them?

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 12, 2010 10:31 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: linda38 | June 13, 2010 12:14 AM | Report abuse

As if the Hawks didn't have enough cap trouble... from nhl.com:

"Oddly enough, making Bowman's job even more difficult is that captain Jonathan Toews won the Conn Smythe Trophy as playoff MVP, which kicks in a $1.3 million bonus in his contract that counts against the cap. That amount alone could be worth a solid player."

Think we can get a couple players from them?

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 12, 2010 10:31 PM | Report abuse

well let's see, among their centers and d-men, they're probably not gonna re-sign Madden who made $2.75 mil last year and I'm sure they'd love to get rid of Campbell and his $7 plus mil/year contract which still has a few years remaining.

I seriously doubt that the Caps want either of them... or they could go after Hjalmarsson who I thought played really well in the playoffs and he's an RFA.

Posted by: joek443 | June 13, 2010 9:02 AM | Report abuse

The Toews bonus I'm guessing is part of 09-10 season salary and therefore is only significant if it puts them over this year, and then results in a reduction for next year when they are already over.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 13, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

If anyone cares, I'm confused by the Toews bonus thing. nhlnumbers says his salary for 09-10 is 850 + potential bonus 2.150. I seriously doubt that 1.3 of the 2.150 would be tied into such a remote thing as Conn Smyth Trophy. As I understand, these bonuses are only on EL contracts and not his new deal for next year. So, bottom line, I'm wondering about the validity of that story. Anyway, it says they only had 336 space this year past so any bonus earned anyway puts them over and therefore they get a subtration next year. Good.

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=CHI&season=0910

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 13, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

tom, could that be an automatic part of the Conn Smythe? I'm sure the story is valid, it just didn't go into any details.

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 13, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

OK, if I am reading correctly, and if Toews and Kane get all their bonuses, the Hawks are almost $4M over for the season that just concluded. That means the 58.8M for next year is reduced to 54.4. Is that right? And, I believe, starting July 1st, at no point can you be more than 10% over the cap for next year, with on opening night at or under. They have 14 players at 57.6M with a max incl the 10% at like 59.8M. This means they can't hardly sign any RFAs (incl Niemi) unless they start unloading fast. I'm not sure the Caps can do much with them, but I can see a team way under like the Islanders maybe offering a #1 pick for several pretty players. Sometime in life you feel sorry for people but I don't feel sorry for the Hawks. Plus I'm hoping they can't penalized for the Hossa contract that is really a $2M/yr cap cheat.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 13, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Tom, Toews was under his Entry-level contract for this season. His final year on his entry-level. I'm sure the bonuses were tied in with his EL contract.

It also applies for the 09-10 season, so I'm pretty sure they can't defer it past next season.

As for Hawks the Caps should be eyeballing; Bolland, Sharp, Fraser, Hjalmarsson, maybe even Sopel..all the players I'd take a look at. Campbell makes too much money.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 13, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Phil: I think before the Hawks move so many players they will basically give away Campbell to anyone who will offer a 6th round pick. Huet they will trade for a 6th round pick plus they will take back some salary. Those two alone are $13M in space.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 13, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Here's the question though: who would take Huet for $6M? MAYBE someone would take Campbell for $7M, but Huet at that much?

Posted by: timmyv38 | June 13, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone else see the interview with Kyle Wilson after the game on Friday? He said that they had ADAPTED their style of play after the first two games of the series. He said they decided they needed to play a grittier style instead of the SKILL style they played in the first two.

Hopefullt BB is taking notes for next season!!!!!

Posted by: PhilR | June 14, 2010 7:20 AM | Report abuse

ok, so what exactly are the "bonuses" that the Hawks are going to have tacked onto/deducted from next seasons Cap?

Toews: 1.2 mil (conn Smythe winner)
?

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 14, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

@richmondphil:

I'd be after Bolland (via trade) and Hjalmarsson (via RFA offer sheet), personally.

not sure what package could get Bolland as most Hawks fans on HFBoards are under the delusion that they'll get near top dollar for any players they dump even though they are already at 57.5 mil for only 14 players.

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 14, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

I'd go after Sharp since he could fit in right away as our 2nd line center and has some years left. I don't think Chicago will be able to keep him as well as some of their other contributing vets because of the money tied up in their top players and the extra money that will be needed to re-sign Toews.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 14, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Frank: We will find out on/about July 1 when nhlnumbers.com posts the new cap figures for 2010-2011. It would list the new cap amount, presumably $58.8M, and then list how much each team has, incl reductions for buyouts and deductions for any 2010 overruns. Hawks had 1/2 mil buyout for this year and maybe next year, too, and surely it seems they are over with Kane and Toews bonuses (maybe $4M) and that amount is axed from next year. By the looks of things, they are in a big hurt unless they can unload Campbell and Huet. Campbell I can see someone will take off their hands, but with Huet I can't see unless they take some salary back.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 14, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

OK, I just read a story that if the Hawks can't trade Huet, they would send him to the minors (ala Nylander) to get the cap off their books.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 14, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

OK, I just read a story that if the Hawks can't trade Huet, they would send him to the minors (ala Nylander) to get the cap off their books.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 14, 2010 12:29 PM

that could be a risky move with re-entry waivers (if they had to call him up) and then having to pay 1/2 his salary with cap a hit

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | June 14, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

The World Cup is fine and all but I need some hockey news! Tarik/Lindsey, how about an update???!!!

Posted by: CAP-lanta | June 14, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

This is from an article by E.J. Hradek today:

"the Hawks' 2010-11 team cap number will be reduced by approximately $3.8 million as a result of the individual performance bonus overage from the recently concluded campaign. In other words, if the upper end of the team salary range went up $2 million (as most expect that it will -- so long as the NHLPA agrees to the five percent inflator) to $58.8 million, the Hawks' max team cap number would be roughly $55M.

That's a pretty big problem when you consider they already have 14 players under contract for next season at a combined cap hit of more than $57M."

Posted by: sgm3 | June 14, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

TONIGHT THE BEARS ARE GOING TO SHOW THEIR BIG BROTHERS HOW ITS DONE....

AGAIN!!!!

GO BEARS!!!!!!

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | June 14, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Someone will take Campbell off their hands and by putting Huet in the minors the problem goes away for them unfortunately.

Posted by: PhilR | June 14, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

I'd be shocked if someone took Campbell. $7.1M/yr for 6 more years is too much. Teams with owners who are willing to pay that sort of money do not have the cap room to do so.

I expect Huet to go to the minors too. But that then means Chicago is paying his contract on top of the $58.8M they will be paying. I don't know about their owner, but a lot of owners are not comfortable paying a player over $5M/yr for a few more years to do nothing.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 14, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

I can see a team picking up Campbell that has the space just to say they have a "star" and a Stanley Cup winning player....may draw a few more fans to their arena and they will only have to give up draft picks to get him. And after winning the Cup this year I really doubt their owner would care about paying Huet to do nothing if he can just about keep his whole team together to contend for the Cup on a yearly basis.

Posted by: PhilR | June 14, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

I thought Patrick Sharp was predominantly a RW, and played very little at Center.

What's teh scoop on that?

Posted by: FrankM73 | June 14, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Buy out period begins tomorrow. Does Nyls get the buy out? Anyone else?

Posted by: oldtimehockey | June 14, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

I don't think we buy him out because it would effect our cap space. I am assuming we either trade him or stuff him in the minors or overseas somewhere.

Posted by: pkendrick | June 14, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

@PhilR

The owner may not care, but very few business men like to pay that much money for someone doing nothing. In addition the Hawks then have to pay for his replacement. Owners often do not like to do this.

I do believe he will be sent to the minors but am just looking at the other side of the argument.

Unless a team who acquired Campbell became signifcantly better he would not put anyone extra in the stands. He has no star power whatsoever. The only people who may know who he is are either Blackhawks, Sabres or Sharks fans and/or hardcore hockey fans.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 14, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Sharp is a center. I am not sure what it would take to get him. Assuming Flash makes about $2m this year, a Falsh plus 1st rounder for Sharp saves them roughly $2m against the cap.

Posted by: underpants2 | June 14, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

sgm3: That is pretty good, I calculated a $4M hit for Hawks next year and it's $3.8M. So the system works. Take out Campbell and Huet and they are $44M for 12 players and cap of $55M. They still have to squeeze in 10 players for the $11M remaining and Niemi is up for a serious raise. Give him even $3M only and the last 9 players only get $900K each. They either move more vets or they can't afford anything but their lowest paid RFAs.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 14, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Really, a guy who has played in at least three all star games and now has won a Stanley Cup is an unknown commodity??!! I think you do not give the average fan enough credit sgm3, there are plenty of people out there who know who Brian Campbell is and it would fill a few more seats.

Posted by: PhilR | June 14, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

@underpants2

I don't think the Hawks will want any player who will make over $1M next year. They are going to want either picks, prospects, or cheap players.

@tominsocal1

I don't think Campbell will be moved. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.

This is from an article today by Lyle Richardson of the Hockey News:

"The obvious trade candidate would be defenseman Brian Campbell and his $7.14 million per season contract, but his performance this season didn’t match his salary level and combined with his limited no-trade clause, that makes him almost impossible to move. "

Posted by: sgm3 | June 14, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

@PhilR

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

I think people like Kane and Toews bring people in with their star power. Campbell is a very good player, this is no knock on him.

I had discussions with very knowledgeable sports fans who are only an average hockey fan about the Ovie/Campbell incident when it happened. None of them knew who Campbell was or his role on the Blackhawks.

I consider Campbell a good player but no star power. Stars are generally people who score a lot, goalies, and only a few dominant defensemen. It's just how it is in sports. Sort of like offensive lineman in football. The guys who don't make the highlight plays are generally not known by the average fan.

Posted by: sgm3 | June 14, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

I just read and Campbell has a limited trade clause. He apparently, if the club asks, indicate 8 teams to which he would accept a trade. The club then has a 45-day window to make a deal, if they can.

OK...Det, Pitt, Wash, NJ, Montreal, Flyers, NYR and Boston. That's who I'd designate if I were him.

Let's see Chicago trade him now.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | June 14, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

CONGRATULATIONS BEARS!!!!!!!!

Posted by: wocoliz | June 14, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

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