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Flyers' Carcillo suspended four games

The NHL has suspended Philadelphia's Dan Carcillo four games for his role in a fight Saturday with the Caps' Matt Bradley that earned him 19 penalty minutes and a game misconduct.

Carcillo sucker-punched Bradley before the winger had a chance to drop his gloves, sabotaging the Flyers' chances and firing up the Caps, who went on to win, 8-2.

"Maybe it's my fault for not expecting that," Bradley said last night. "I was willing to fight him and didn't get going. Obviously I had my bell rung and was a little woozy."

Before the suspension was announced today, Boudreau told reporters in Tampa he hoped Carcillo would be disciplined.

"It's not like this guy's in his first year or first chance doing it," he said. "Whether it's in this league or the American league, where I saw him for two years, where he was just as big an idiot there, too, it's just a dirty play."

As for Bradley, Boudreau said the tough-guy winger "seems fine" and that if "he rides the bike, he's fine, he's ready to go" tomorrow against the Lightning.

By Lindsay Applebaum  |  December 6, 2009; 2:33 PM ET
 
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Comments

Sounds fair...I think the few bloggers last night that called for 20 games, were a bit too emotional.

Posted by: capscoach | December 6, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Bradley is a soldier.

Posted by: richmondphil | December 6, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

I was expecting three to five -- sounds like three for the stunt and one because it's not his first time.

Posted by: kittypawz | December 6, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

One of my Flyers friends said that the league should have made Carcillo get first line minutes instead. That would do much more harm to them than suspending him.

haha. I have to agree.

Posted by: richmondphil | December 6, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

four games sounds about right.. especially considering his intention and past. glad brads is doing ok, hope he is good to go for the next game!

Posted by: mrszilla | December 6, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

The way the on-ice officials handled this play is exactly the way the league could stomp out this kind of stupid play. 7 or 9 minute power plays would provide plenty of incentive for players to check their emotions after a clean hit. In fact, if you look at it, he should have gotten 11 minutes - he deserved an additional 2 for roughing for punching Matt in the face with his gloved hand before he went bare fist to the jaw.

Unfortunately, too few refs have the guts to make the call that the guys made last night. Take note NHL - this is how it should be done.

Posted by: bill_in_damascus | December 6, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

What an idiot. What a dbag!!!!!! Only problem is the flyers will only get better without him.

Posted by: Andoy | December 6, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Could not agree more with Bill in Damascus. Suspending goons (or anyone else) for a few games does little to get rid of dirty play. Dish out 5 - 7 - 9 minute penalties and players will think twice about using cheap shots.

Posted by: hockeypuck1 | December 6, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

C'mon Linz...

"[H]is role in a fight?" Calling it a "fight" inaccurately portrays what happened.

Posted by: large23220 | December 6, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

FOUR games for that? OV went after someone’s knee (allegedly) and only got 2 games. WTF is going on in the NHL????

Posted by: FLDave | December 6, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

FLDave,

you are comparing Ovechkin and Carcillo? Are you that blind?

Posted by: O-V-P | December 6, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Has Brads' baby been born yet? It will need a healthy (and smart) daddy.

Posted by: coryvreckan | December 6, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: richmondphil | December 6, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

"I think if you look purely at his skill set, he might be more talented than 'Ovi," pure skill," Morrison said. "You can always see those other intangibles that 'Ovi' has that Semin doesn't have and maybe he can develop them a bit. But, pure skills, he's the most talented guy I've ever skated with."

Morrison said that even though Nicklas Backstrom has only been in the NHL for three seasons, he was well aware of him years earlier.

"I played with Daniel and Henrik Sedin in Vancouver and, being from Sweden, they talked about Backstrom as a young kid coming up," Morrison recalled. "But when you get to play with him every day, you get to appreciate guys more and he's one of those guys. He's put up numbers the last couple of years. But, just to see how calm he is on the ice, he's got a real ability to hold onto the puck until the right time to make the play. A lot of guys will get the puck and move it right away, whereas, if you can buy that extra half a second that you need where another guy can get open and you can get the puck to the guy when he's in the perfect scoring position."


An excerpt from the article. Yet another NHL player to say that Semin has some of the best hands ever.

Posted by: richmondphil | December 6, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Pierre LeBrun, espn.com

Capitals' contract talks
The recent signings of young stars Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane in Chicago (five years, $6.3 million average per season) might prove to be good benchmarks for the Washington Capitals and the Nicklas Backstrom camp as they continue negotiations for the RFA-to-be.

Like Kane and Toews, Backstrom is a front-line offensive star coming out of his entry-level contract. I don't think anything is imminent, but I'm told contract discussions have gone reasonably well between the Caps and agent Marc Levine. We should see a deal done before too long; certainly before the end of the regular season.

Alexander Semin? Well, that's another story. The Caps and his agent, Mark Gandler, haven't held talks since the eve of the season, when it's believed an offer from the team was rejected. The RFA-to-be is also generating much interest in his native Russia, but the Caps will give this another go before the season is out.

Posted by: joek443 | December 6, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

The Caps have 6 players in the top 50 point scorers. Two of them, Ovie and Semin, have missed a lot of games.

Backstrom, Ovie, Green, Laich, Semin, BMo. In order.

Posted by: richmondphil | December 6, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Like Kane and Toews, Backstrom is a front-line offensive star coming out of his entry-level contract. I don't think anything is imminent, but I'm told contract discussions have gone reasonably well between the Caps and agent Marc Levine. We should see a deal done before too long; certainly before the end of the regular season.

Alexander Semin? Well, that's another story. The Caps and his agent, Mark Gandler, haven't held talks since the eve of the season, when it's believed an offer from the team was rejected. The RFA-to-be is also generating much interest in his native Russia, but the Caps will give this another go before the season is out.

Posted by: joek443 | December 6, 2009 3:58 PM |

Eh, nothing new here. Seems like it's going how we would all expect it. Good find though, interesting to hear that Semin has rejected an extension already.

Posted by: richmondphil | December 6, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

And Semin is second only to Ovi in points per game played.

Posted by: Steakum | December 6, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

of the Caps, that is.

Posted by: Steakum | December 6, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

@bill_in_damascus:

I totally agree about how well the refs handled it. They also didn't try to 'even it up' later on by giving the Flyers a bunch of undeserving PPs.

Posted by: chombie13 | December 6, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Go to 12/3, seg. 8 of the Mike Wise show podcast at:
www.cbssports.com/local/dc/radio/podcasts/mike-wise-show

GMGM discusses both Ovi and Semin--excellent listen--and GMGM talks about how important Semin is to the Caps and what he brings to the ice. And no he did not talk about negotiations. Love him or hate him GMGM plays his cards close to his chest when it comes to those contract matters, but he's clear about what he likes about Semin.

Posted by: Capsyoungguns | December 6, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know the stats for the caps power play with ovie and without him this season? My bet is better without him. I'm not saying you take him out of the power play (that's just dumb), but I think it's important to ask why we seem to be just as good (if not better) without him.

Posted by: welcome2theiceage | December 6, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Backstrom isn't an RFA to be, FYI. That article says he is.

Posted by: richmondphil | December 6, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

This just goes to show, you play like a Hanson Brother, you get treated like a Hanson Brother.

Carcillo's penalty should have included he has to wear a pair of glasses when he comes back.

Pierre LeBrun is slow. We posted five minutes after Toews and Kane signed that it would be benchmark for Backie. I think I used that exact word the other day.

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

@welcome2theiceage

IMHO I think BMo on point is the key. But I also think Ovi is just as important to the PP.

Posted by: Capsyoungguns | December 6, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

@richmondphil

Both Semin and Backstrom will be RFA's at the end of the season. As will Flash and Fehr.

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Mike Green will also be a RFA after his current contract expires after the 2012 season.

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

2009/10 UFA's
Steckel
Aucoin
Giroux
S.Morrisonn
B.Morrison
Pothier
Jurcina
Sloan
Theodore
Sloan

RFA's
Backstrom
Semin
Fehr
Flash
Schultz
B.Gordon
A.Gordon


Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Alex Ovechkin
Mike Knuble
Alex Semin
Mike Green
Nicklas Backstrom
Brendan Morrison

You are Bruce Boudreau (OK, that means you lost a lotta hair and gained a lotta weight - at least in my case).

Which of those six do you leave off the 1st power play unit (assuming all 6 are healthy)?

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Morrison...

Group 2

Morrison
Flash
Ovi
Laich
Knuble

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

2009/10 UFA's
Steckel - THEY WILL KEEP HIM AT LIKE $900K
Aucoin - UNFORTUNATELY I THINK GONE
Giroux - MAYBE BACK IN HERSHEY
S.Morrisonn - LIKELY GONE, MAYBE TRADED B4 MARCH
B.Morrison - WISH HE COULD COME BACK, DON'T KNOW HOW, HIS EXPERIENCE IS VALUABLE
Pothier - LIKE TO KEEP HIM
Jurcina - DOUBT HE'S BACK, BUT MAYBE
Sloan - GREAT FLEXIBILITY. KEEP IF LIKE $700K
Theodore - GONE, I'D SAY, SINCE NEUVY IS A RFA (NOT ON LIST BELOW) AND CAN'T BE SENT DOWN W/O WAIVERS

RFA's
Backstrom $6.5M PER
Semin $6M PER WE CAN HOPE
Fehr SIGN QUICKLY 2 YRS $1.5M EA B4 PRICE GOES UP
Flash HE CAN GO FOR ARBITRATION AND THEN UFA. SIGN QUICKLY IN THE LOW 2'S IF YOU CAN
Schultz - WILL GET LIKE $1.5M
B.Gordon - HE'LL "BACK OUT" OF HOCKEY
A.Gordon - MAYBE A HERSHEY DEAL

MY ADD:
NEUVY - SIGNS FOR ONE YEAR SAME AS HE GETS NOW

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Weight and hair differences not so great in my case. I guess you approach it by process of elimination. You need Green and Morrison on the point, where they have proven to be the most effective that we have. You need Ovi on the wing for one timers and Knuble in the crease, creating havoc. You need Backstrom because of his passing and puck-handling ability. That leaves Semin for the second power play, even though he may be the most skillful guy on the team with the puck.

Posted by: zmega | December 6, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

You know, I honestly think we have 10 capable PP candidates. We are so damn talented.

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Actually tominfl Neurvirth has the same contract as Varlamov, he'll be RFA 2011.

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

We'd better watch out for the TB Lightning; they're moving up in the standings. They are ranked above the Flyers.

Posted by: FloridaCapsFan | December 6, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

JSchon: nhlnumbers.com says 2010. However:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michal_Neuvirth

Says he "turned pro" in 2008-09, which would support the capgeek claim of 2011.

Any comment on my prognostications?

signed,
nostrathomasinfl1

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

This is what I want to happen.

2009/10 UFA's
Steckel - 1yr $900K (A lock at 4th line C)
Aucoin - 1yr $600K (he's C that has some offensive upside)
Giroux - BYE
S.Morrisonn - BYE
B.Morrison - 3yr $7.5M
Pothier - BYE
Jurcina - 1yr $1.66
Sloan - BYE
Theodore - BYE


RFA's
Backstrom - 8yr $50M
Semin - Traded at deadline for player and picks
Fehr - 2yr $3.5M
Flash - 2yr $4.5M
Schultz - 3yr $5.5M
B.Gordon - BYE
A.Gordon - 1yr $700K

I have no idea what will happen?

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Green, Backstrom & Semin have the most PP points on the Caps, with 14,13, & 11, respecitvely (Semin has played 8 & 9 fewer games than the other 2, respectively). Laich & Ovi follow with 10.

I like #1 Green, Semin, Backstrom, Knuble, Morrison.

#2 Ovi, Laich, Flash, and ??

Posted by: Steakum | December 6, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

JSchon: The Semin pill is a hard one to swallow. Really hard, because I think he fits better with Caps anywhere than maybe with Kovalchuk. BUT, if Flash, Fehr and Laich turn out to be the players we think they will be, we have four solid 1st and 2nd line wingers. Backie and BMo would then give two centers with Perrault and Steckel and Johnasson coming along.

The really hard part in the Semin equation, is NO WAY do you want to trade him before the deadline if it jeopardizes the playoff run for this year. So, you want NHL quality value in return (moreso than picks). Waiting until after the playoffs means the player controls his destiny (he chooses Russia, arbitration or trying to sign long-term for next year). What will a team offer if you are trying to trade him on June 30th and they know he can bolt in either one day or in one year?

The truth of the matter - for the Caps to get max value out of Semin, they either need to keep him long term at $6M a year or else they have to trade him SOON.

I'd hate for him to leave, BUT, if they move him say tomorrow w/Poti for a rock-solid 1st pair D man and an entry-level forward prospect...well, that might be for the best.

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

I agree with you tominfl. The Semin card is hard one to play.

How about sending Semin and Poti to VAN for Kevin Bieska and some picks and prospect.

I don't know. The worst nightmare is that we fall short of the Stanley Cup and lose Semin to the KHL and get nada.

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

I confused the two in my earlier posts. I meant to say that Semin will not be an RFA, like the article implies. But it seems I was wrong either way, they both are RFAs.


Question. Tom says "Waiting until after the playoffs means the player controls his destiny (he chooses Russia, arbitration or trying to sign long-term for next year)."

Being an RFA, if Semin bolts to the KHL as opposed to another club, do we get any compensation?

Posted by: richmondphil | December 6, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Nada.

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Well, I guess I was wrong about Laviolette fitting in with the Flyers. He has embraced their style of play and says he has no problem with what Carcillo did. I guess the desire for a coaching position outweighs whatever principled objections he had to fighting, or even gooning. www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/78644387.html .

Posted by: zmega | December 6, 2009 6:15 PM | Report abuse

I don't get Carcillo's cheap shot. Its not like he's not going to beat the crap out of Brads in a fair fight. Carcillo is a pure pugilist, whereas Brads is a willing, but not always able, combatant.

Posted by: oldtimehockey | December 6, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

ALRIGHT...I was only one game off, I suggested 5 games right after the incident. This is a proper call by the NHL.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | December 6, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

The only compensation one team seems to get from that is being to hold onto the players' NHL rights. I looked at Hudler for a comparison.

Posted by: richmondphil | December 6, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

Hudler is the perfect example of what could happen to us in regards to Semin.

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Phil: There's no compensation if Semin's current contract runs out and then he signs on July 1st with a KHL team and then comes back to the NHL as UFA July 1, 2011. Not one ruble, as far as I understand.

BUT, but, it isn't the end of the world if he leaves after this year or next w/o compensation. You simply take the $6M you had earmarked for Semin and you buy a UFA. Then, it's like a trade. So, if he isn't traded, my expectation is he opts for arbitration for next year and gets around $6M from the judge for one year. Then say he walks at the end of that year. Again, those dollars can be used on a top-flight, free agent, b@!!-busting defenseman.

Actually, I just checked, and there aren't many choices at end of 2011. VAN is best partner as they have two, Bieska (mentioned above) and Erhoff, both UFAs then in the mid-3's. I don't stay up that late, so I never watch VAN and have no clue as to their value.

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Just to let everyone know @ this moment the Hershey Bears are beating the Hartford Wolfpack 9-1 @ the end of the 2nd intermission. Hartford is now gooning it up.

Posted by: littledogdan | December 6, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Bieska is a nasty cuss.

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

OK, tell me about Hudler. Say Semin plays in Russia for 2010-2011. He comes back to the NHL as UFA for 2011-2012 because he's 27 years old. Did Hudler leave and come back before 27? Is there a CBA provision (I doubt it) that if they come back at 27 but from KHL that they don't get UFA status? My understanding from CBA is any player 27 or older B4 July 1st of that year is a UFA for that season coming up (if no NHL contract in place).

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

stats so far: G A +/-SH Pim
2 McNeill, Patrick D 0 2 +2 1 0
4 Carlson, John D 0 1 +2 3 0
6 Collins, Sean D 0 0 +2 0 0
10 Gordon, Andrew RW 2 1 +1 3 0
A 11 Aucoin, Keith C 0 2 +1 1 2
13 Pinizzotto, Steve C 2 1 +3 2 0
15 Dubuc, Michael LW 1 0 0 3 5
17 Bourque, Chris LW 1 1 +1 2 0
18 Wilson, Kyle C 1 2 0 3 7
C 20 Helmer, Bryan D 0 1 +3 1 2
21 Beagle, Jay C 0 0 0 3 0
22 Bouchard, Fran RW 0 1 0 0 0
23 Joudrey, Andrew C 1 1 +4 1 0
26 Morgan, Gavin C 1 0 +1 2 0
27 McNeill, Grant D 0 2 +2 0 5
A 28 Kane, Boyd LW 0 0 0 3 0
33 Wellar, Patrick D 0 0 +1 1 5
37 Yeo, Dylan D 0 0 0 0 2

Posted by: littledogdan | December 6, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

tominfl

Ok, I do not understand all the rules, because I haven't read them. All I know is that Hudler was RFA this summer and decided to go to the KHL. Detroit got nothing in compensation because there is no formal anything with the KHL.

Hudler was drafted in 2002 and his rookie season was in 2006/07.

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

From the CBA:

"FREE AGENCY

How will Free Agency work?

Unrestricted Free Agency - For the 2005-06 season, a player age 31 with four accrued seasons will be an unrestricted free agent; in 2006-07, a player age 29 with four accrued seasons or with eight accrued seasons; in 2007-08, a player age 28 with four accrued seasons or with seven accrued seasons; beginning in 2008-09 and for the duration of the agreement, a player age 27 with four accrued seasons or with seven accrued seasons will be an unrestricted free agent. For purposes of qualifying for unrestricted free agency, the 2004-05 cancelled season will be counted as a year of accrued service."

Me now - at the end of this year, Semin will have 5 full NHL seasons (6 if they count the lockout year) and will be 26 years old. The only requirement he then must have to obtain UFA status is to turn 27. So, as far as I can tell, he can sit at the Burger King all next year and pick his nose and he will be UFA on July 1, 2011. He doesn't need to do anything from this point on, except to turn 27, to be a UFA on that date.

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse


I think tom is right. The rights only apply until 27, or when RFA status is over.

I just know that DET has Hudler's rights and, for example, NSH has Radulov's rights. But they are both under 27 as well.

Posted by: richmondphil | December 6, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

trade semin?

that's as ridiculous as a comment i saw a few weeks ago saying to trade ovie for draft picks.

Semin is one of the best players in the league, and having him gives the caps such great depth of talent

Posted by: j762 | December 6, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

am i the only one who thinks he saw bradley's gloves falling off instead of being dropped?

Posted by: j762 | December 6, 2009 7:00 PM | Report abuse

tominfl

please enlighten j762...

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Hudler - born January, 1984. NHL service time three full years + parts of two.

Semin - born March, 1984. NHL service time at end of this year is 5 seasons + one for lockout year maybe (Hudler was in minors then).

Semin has the accrued time so that he need only turn 27 to become a UFA. If Hudler comes back for next season, Detroit holds his rights as he's only 26 and doesn't have 7 seasons. If Hudler comes back July 1, 2011, he is a UFA by virtue of age 27 IF the 12 games he played in 2003-04 count as a "season" per the current CBA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ji%C5%99%C3%AD_Hudler

Bottom line: Detroit holds his rights if he comes back this year and might if he comes back for 2011-12. I don't know if 12 games in 03-04 counts as a "season." I really think it does, I believe anything now counts if they play 10 or more as a "season" toward any type of FA. I'm not sure though when they signed the CBA in 2005 how it treated prior seasons.

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 7:07 PM | Report abuse

@j762

Nope I saw it too.

All this trade etc. talk hurts my head. I want to keep Semin. And Backs. And BMo. And the others discussed. I want I want I want I want. I'd be a terrible GM.

Posted by: Capsyoungguns | December 6, 2009 7:07 PM | Report abuse

j762: Please go back and read all the threads for the last three months. You'll see that trading Semin as a last resort might be the most practical way to keep all the other players together beyond 2010-2011.

When you've finished reading all those threads over the last three months, come back and engage us in discussion.

Let me say that I'd rather stop drinking than trade Semin.

Cheers.

tominfl1

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 7:13 PM | Report abuse

SETTING: THE MCPHEE HOUSEHOLD

(A female voice calls out)

"Honey, I'm leaving for the store now. Do you want anything?"

GMGM bolts upward from his easy chair. "Hold it! What are you buying?"

"Milk, beer, steak, pork chops and laundry detergent."

GMGM quickly whips out an Excel spreadsheet detailing the family budget. "That's five items," he says. "We can only afford four."

"We can't get both steak and pork chops, dear?" she asks.

He looks anew at the figures. "Well, if you get chuck steak and those cheapo pork chops, we can do it. Also, if you trade the chicken you bought yesterday for a 'meal to be determined later,' then maybe it works."

GMGM waits for an answer from his wife, but hears only silence. Finally, "Honey, are you ever going to stop this?"

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 7:22 PM | Report abuse

All those that seem to not care about Semin leaving may regret that thought if it comes true. Everyone is always harder on their own players. I remember people wanting Larry Murphy and Serge Gonchar gone. That worked out terribly for the Caps. Almost as well as Scott Stevens signing with St Louis. BTW, every single of the five first round picks from the Blues was a bust. The fans seem to bash Semin. He plays all dimensions of special teams, can play defense, kill penalties and can score and be a play maker. I am confident many teams would love his services. I bet Pittsburgh would make room for him in their system.

Posted by: pkme | December 6, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

they got Gonchar and Witt with the last two of those 5 firsts so I wouldn't say every one of them was a bust

Posted by: joek443 | December 6, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

but I do agree that it would be a mistake to let Semin go... he's the best all-around forward on the team

Posted by: joek443 | December 6, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

@pkme

No one in this thread as I recall wants to trade Semin. I haven't said much because I'm not a statistician but I adore Semin. Always have. Huge fan of his. And I still hold out hope that McPhee will work it out with both Backs and Semin--something with longterm contracts and less of a hit now, something along the lines of they are part of a tradition.

Without question Semin is an amazing player, has great chemistry with the team, and is best buds with our Ovi--this is the kind of stuff we all know.

And I really think that BMo has been just incredible--what a great risk he turned out to be. But I have to say I don't know if we can afford him unless he also is interested more in staying with the team and being part of this tradition at this stage in his career. Clearly BB's system works great with BMo's style of play.

But can these guys afford to leave money on the table. It's their livelihood after all. But maybe they can do with a little less because they all realize that they have something special in the Caps. I think the all the players want to stay but can they afford to stay.

I know I'm rambling but I'm stamping my feet right now and repeating: "I want...I want...I want...." I hate the cap. I love the team as it is now.

Posted by: Capsyoungguns | December 6, 2009 7:43 PM | Report abuse

@tominfl1

LOL and quite possibly has a degree of truth.

Posted by: Capsyoungguns | December 6, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

pkme: Really?

1) Althought he trade of Stevens was horrible and likely cost the Caps one, two or three Cups, the 5 1st rounders obtained from St. Louis were not all busts.
1A) 1991 a LW, I think Yvon Corriveau, bust.
1B) 1992 Sergie Gonchar, traded for ShaMo and the pick that became Jeff Schultz.
1C) 1993 - Brendan Witt, traded to Nashville for the pick that became Varlamov.
1D) 1994 - The pick was traded with Mike Ridley to move up from #16 to #10 in Round 1 and take Nolan Baumgartner. Major bust.
1E) 1995 - Mikko Elomo - bust.

2) No one today is bashing Semin or wanting to trade him. See above my note to j762. And, all the previous Semin bashers have been duly dispatched to the Doofus Brigade, Sugar Company, reporting to Lt Col LarryDavid.

It's amazing when people just skip through an entire thread and read the last three notes and make some grand determination.

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 7:47 PM | Report abuse

fine, a stupid question to follow up a stupid point:

is he guaranteed to finish the season with the caps?

Posted by: j762 | December 6, 2009 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Dear Santa,

All I REALLY, REALLY want for Christmas is to lock up Backie and Sasha for a long time with enough treats to make them happy campers. It really is all I want. I have everything else in life.

Posted by: Steakum | December 6, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

j762: That isn't a stupid question. And you didn't make a "stupid point." You merely seemed to draw a conclusion in your post from a very incomplete set of facts.

The very easy answer to your question, and I don't mean to be flippant, but there are no guarantees in life.

I could draw up a flow diagram on all the things that could happen with Semin. Go back and read through this thread and you will see many of them. Main variables:

1) are the player and the club actively engaged in negotiations for an extension and what is the status?

2) will GMGM get knocked off his feet with a super trade offer?

Tell me, j762, will you still live in your house at the end of 2010? What if you decide that, all things considered, even though you love the house, that you must move? And what if someone were to make an offer that would make moving worthwhile in the end? And what if you are forced to vacate? Are there guarantees?

If I had to lay odds, I say it's 80% yes, 20% no that he finishes the year with the Caps. And, further, and it's really hard to tell, since I have no clue what's going on in his mind, but I'd rate it 67% yes and 33% no that McPhee signs him to a six-year, $36M extension that matches the Cammelleri deal.

Sue me if I'm wrong. But, if McPhee can't lock him in at $6M per annum, a trade is the next best option IMO.

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 8:12 PM | Report abuse

To Joe k443

I stand corrected on total bust. Interesting how things come full circle. Stevens signs the largest contract for a defenseman at that time. We get Gonchar and Witt out of the deal through the draft and neither is with the Caps anymore. You were right. However we can say that the Caps got ten first round picks in five years. I loved Gonchar as a player. Total classs act on and off the ice. Also a big fan of Larry Murphy.

Posted by: pkme | December 6, 2009 8:30 PM | Report abuse

And even if we do sign him to a 6yr deal @ $6M per, its a very movable contract if in 2011/2012 you decide that signing Laich/Varlamov/Green are more important.

Again the question really in my mind is where does Semin want to play next season. Here or the KHL?

Posted by: JSchon | December 6, 2009 8:33 PM | Report abuse

j762: OK, my my last note WAS a bit flippant, I apologize, but we keep getting the same questions over and over.

I detailed, a few weeks back, about a dozen NHL contracts that fell within the Semin age and performance range. I listed the values of those contracts.

People wrote back, "He isn't worth this guy" and "He isn't worth that guy" and "You should ignore this contract because of extenuating circumstances."

Now, say you have a Ph.D. in contract law and you have just been promoted to become the judge who presides over NHL arbitration cases.

Do you prepare for your cases by watching every NHL game throughout the entire year (so you can catalog every single player) or do you "decide on the stats" as the CBA dictates.

Yes, that's right, you "decide on the stats."

Alexander Semin can point to the Thomas Vanek contract at $7.125M/yr and say, "That is my value." People have posted here that the Vanek contract shouldn't count because Edmonton "overpaid on the RFA offer." Doesn't matter. The numbers are there. The Caps can also point to the Getzlaf and Perry contracts at $5.35M and try and make a comparison. In the end, the player compares very closely to Mike Cammalleri at $6M and Daniel Sedin at $6.1M. Does that mean they will settle there? No, maybe GMGM just doesn't want to pay that much or maybe the player feels he can go to arbitration and get more the following year as a UFA.

We can put down all the facts and figures in the world but in the end it will be decided on human emotion.

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 8:37 PM | Report abuse

@JSchon

I believe here. But it has to be a respectable contract with a little give on both sides.

@Steakum

That's all I want for Christmas too, Backs and Semin all wrapped up and under my tree. Wouldn't that be a lovely Christmas morning.

Posted by: Capsyoungguns | December 6, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Thoughts on the following - Would Ovi be willing to give something back, and/or would Backstrom or Semin be willing to take a bit less, in order to keep all of them together. Semin seems comfortable here (as much as he can in the US) and there's got to be a premium for playing on a team with guys you like, and, more importantly, that could contend for the cup for 7 - 10 years to come.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ovi give up a million or so per year if it meant Semin could stay. I could also see Ted promising to make that up to him down the road (off the record of course).

Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

Posted by: hook99 | December 6, 2009 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Stevens was let to walk for a reason. Plus, the Blues ended up screwing themselves anyway by signing Shanahan.

As for Semin, we all want him here. But sometimes you have to look at the big picture. It would be said seeing my Semin jersey have to go the way of my Gonchar, Witt, etc jerseys...

Posted by: richmondphil | December 6, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

@tominfl1

I hope the human emotion keeps him here. There are other intangibles that are just as important in a contract. Such as the Sedin twins--it was very important that they stay together and they took less than they could have gotten individually on separate teams as I recall.

I can't believe CapsFan75 is missing this thread. I'm a novice when it comes keeping the faith in our enigmatic and oh so skillful Sasha!

Posted by: Capsyoungguns | December 6, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

off a subject we cant control being contracts,how bout the performance of bourque last night with hershet.first star with 2 goals and the game winner.Awesome for him!So glad we got him back and hope we dont lose him again.And glad brads is doin good,hes a soldier.GO CAPS!!!

Posted by: gratefuldid | December 6, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse

@ pkme

I was a big fan of Larry Murphy also but he wasn't traded alone... it was Gartner and Murphy for Ciccarelli and Bob Rouse. Only David Poile knows if it was absolutely neccessary to include Murphy in that deal but I happen to think the trade could have and should have been Gartner for Ciccarelli straight up.

Posted by: joek443 | December 6, 2009 8:49 PM | Report abuse

hook99: The CBA prohibits reworking contracts, once signed, like they do in football.

So, no, Ovi can't give up money and re-sign for a lower figure even if he wanted to.

The only "cost avoidance" manipulative features the teams have been able to devise are the super-long term deals (Hossa) where the player will earn less in his declining years and, even more egregious, the medium-length Pronger type deals for older players where the last two years are for minimum salary and it's obvious he will retire and, as a consequence, the Flyers are, in reality, skirting the cap to the tune of $2M per year.

What I am hoping for, in the back of my mind, is that GMGM can either get Backstrom, Laich or Green to go for one of those extra-long, cap circumventing deals, and we can keep Semin thusly.

Posted by: tominfl1 | December 6, 2009 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Would someone like to explain to me and how/why Mike Duco has not been suspended for mauling Giroux from behind away from the play and the repeatedly punching him in the back of the head while he was down? Yeah, Carcillo's was also a sucker punch and he had a rap sheet, but I think that what Duco did was significantly worse than what Carcillo did and merited at least a 5-10 game suspension.

Posted by: wis193 | December 6, 2009 9:09 PM | Report abuse

@tominfl1 - thanks for clarifying -

@wis193 - probably because acting like a complete moron was punishment enough (and the whole thing was relatively harmless). Also I don't think our friend Mr. Duco is long for this league.

Posted by: hook99 | December 6, 2009 9:16 PM | Report abuse

@Capsyoungguns

Okay, I didn't post today since I was off at the Redskins game. (They lost a game in overtime they should have won. Granted they were playing a team that's undefeated and granted they are not a good team. But, between a missed field goal and various other mistakes, the other team tied them near the end.)

Yes, I read this morning's clips (from Japers) where Semin (and/or his agent) turned down an offer of some sort.

I'm, of course, wanting Semin and Backstrom to be signed.

People at the office have been asking me if I'm getting a Caps jersey. I've said I'll get one for my birthday. (It's in July.) Don't wish to get one for a guy who'll soon be gone.

At least GM McPhee is an important person who's interested in keeping Semin.

BTW, we haven't seen Left Coast Caps Fan posting here lately. He's a big Semin fan. (During the dark, dark, devilish days of October, we were feeling like the parents of the bad kid who needed to be grounded.)


Posted by: CapsFan75 | December 6, 2009 9:18 PM | Report abuse

Richmodphil

You are right there were other reasons at that time on why the Caps did not sign Stevens. Enough said.

Posted by: pkme | December 6, 2009 9:22 PM | Report abuse

On Duco and Carcillo.

I noticed that Carcillo ended up with more penalty minutes than Duco even if Duco did a worse deed. A 9 minute power play as opposed to a 7 minute power play. And a 10 minute misconduct and 10 minute game misconduct.

If someone had told me before yesterday's game that a Flyer would get penalized even more than Il Duco, I would not have believed it. That was sheer thuggery, even for someone on Philthy.

Bradley thinks he can play tomorrow.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | December 6, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

@hook99

Nope, Il Duco will not be long for the NHL.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | December 6, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

One of the things they had at yesterday's Christmas party was Snowflake white cake (white cake). I had a piece in honor of Sasha (who they once referred to as Snezhinka, which is Russian for snowflake.)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | December 6, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

top ten teams based on percentage of possible points earned
(points / (games x 2))

sj does have one more point than the caps but it has taken them two more games to get that point.

.724 Washington
.722 New Jersey
.696 Chicago
.696 Calgary
.694 San Jose
.683 Pittsburgh
.654 Buffalo
.635 Atlanta
.617 Los Angeles
.613 Colorado

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | December 6, 2009 9:39 PM | Report abuse

Even if Semin does go to the NHL, it will stink but it will also give us $6 mil or so to sign someone else...we'll be fine. This team is scoring goals from all over the place finally.

Posted by: southside721 | December 6, 2009 9:49 PM | Report abuse

@Capsfan75

Good to "hear" from you. You're right LeftCoastFan has been absent but I guess we all come and go. Life does get busy sometimes. Not into football myself.

Have to admit I am not sure when an instigator rule comes into play although posters seemed pretty clear it was used correctly against Carcillo. Maybe it wasn't used against Duco because he wasn't trying to start a fight but just wanted to pay Giroux back for checking another player. Interesting how we have two fights in two games without Ovi. What's up with these players? But we sure made them pay for their transgressions, didn't we. I get the feeling from my various readings that Duco's punishment will be getting sent back down.

@Capt_Kirk

Nice stats--we're doing something right. I was never quite sure how to calculate the points if another team had played more games than us. But I took great pleasure in the Pens loss yesterday.

Posted by: Capsyoungguns | December 6, 2009 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Hello all!
Read the posts and most of my sentiments have been conveyed. I was thinking a 2 game suspension but will take 4 for sure.

Posted by: BernieWolfeFan | December 6, 2009 10:34 PM | Report abuse

@southside721

Don't you mean the "KHL"?

Of course, I'm one of the people who got attached to Semin, somehow, and don't want him gone.

I notice one thing different when Semin is back in the lineup. The power play is actually functional. While the Caps have won more than they lost without him, the power play had been a total disaster.

Enumeration:

Atlanta game: Caps win. PP scores nada and gives up shortie.

Isles game: Caps win in OT. PP scores nada and gives up shortie.

Rangers game (when Ovi first gets back): Caps win and Ovi and Brooks score PP goals

Montreal game (Caps lose 3-2) Caps are 0 for 4 in PP opportunities

Toronto game (Caps lost 2-1 in shootout) Caps are 0 for 3 in PP opportunities

Ottawa game (Caps lost 4-3 in OT). Caps are 0 for 3 in PP opportunities

Buffalo game (Caps win) Caps get 0 power play opportunities

Carolina game (Caps win). Caps are 0 or 6 in PP opportunities.


Posted by: CapsFan75 | December 6, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

I'm with Capsyoungguns, this is all making my head hurt! How they sit around a table and quantify the intangibles is a mystery to me.

I look at these young guys out there, at practice particularly, and they are having fun with each other and most seem to really like each other -- they make me think of my own sons' teams over the years that have had really good chemistry. We wanted them to stay together and go to Silver Sticks -- again!

At some point I have to trust that Santa is Rockin' the Red (he does, doesn't he?)and Backie will get done, and Sasha will want to stay here as much as GMGM/Ted/BB want him to. We know Ovi does, and can assume the same for Backie, Green, and many on the team.

He's still striving toward his prime. Surely we don't want to trade that to someone else!

Posted by: Steakum | December 6, 2009 10:36 PM | Report abuse

@Capsyoungguns

I took great pleasure in the Pens loss yesterday, as well. They did get a Bettman point.

I will take pleasure in the Pens losing to anyone, even Philthy.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | December 6, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Hershey Bears rout Hartford 9-2
By TIM LEONE, The Patriot-News
December 06, 2009, 7:55PM

Setting season highs for goals in a game and a period, the Hershey Bears routed the Hartford Wolf Pack 9-2 Sunday night at Giant Center.

After outscoring Hartford 3-0 in the first period, Hershey scored a season-high six goals in the second period to take a 9-1 lead.

Andrew Gordon and Steve Pinizzotto both had two-goal games for Hershey. Gavin Morgan, Andrew Joudrey, Kyle Wilson, Michael Dubuc and Chris Bourque also scored for the Bears.

Bears goalie Michal Neuvirth (10-5-0) made 23 saves.

Posted by: tess2201 | December 6, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

@tess2201


Great day for Hershey, indeed!

Posted by: CapsFan75 | December 6, 2009 11:06 PM | Report abuse

@tess2201

thanks for the update.I'm so glad they got bourque back,He's back where he belongs,but next hopefully is in a caps jersey!GO BEARS,GO CAPS!!!

Posted by: gratefuldid | December 6, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

@CapsFan75

My eyes tell me that Semin, B.Mo, and Green are the gears that make the power play go. For some reason Backstrom doesn't seem to be as effective as he is 5-on-5. The other two spots, I think you can rotate in any of our offensive wings and have a very effective PP.

Posted by: butcherbaker | December 7, 2009 1:15 AM | Report abuse

I will gladly take Kovalchuk over Semin if thats what it comes down to.

Posted by: Political_Stratgst | December 7, 2009 2:08 AM | Report abuse

my question was that if the caps have to trade semin by the deadline, that that go into effect immediately, or at the end of the season?

Posted by: j762 | December 7, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

"FLDave,

you are comparing Ovechkin and Carcillo? Are you that blind?"

I don't recall ever comparing Ovechkin to Carcillo. I did say that I felt Ovechkin deserved more than a 2 game suspension for his knee on knee hit following his boarding call (which I thought was boarderline) the previous week. I was pointing out the inconsistancy of suspensions being handed out based on a players stature rather than his offenses.

I'm a huge Caps fan, have been for over 25 years, but I call them as I see them.

Posted by: FLDave | December 7, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

UEFA Champions League http://www.nowgoal.com/22.shtml

Posted by: bgfgf402 | December 8, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

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