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Jurcina out, Steckel questionable

Coach Bruce Boudreau said Milan Jurcina will miss tonight's game against Minnesota and probably Saturday's game in New Jersey with a pulled muscle in his lower body.

Boudreau also said Jeff Schultz will be a healthy scratch, so that means Tyler Sloan will return to the lineup.

David Steckel's status, meantime, remains up in the air. He was scheduled to arrive back in town this morning after the death of his grandmother. If he doesn't play, Boyd Gordon will return from 12-game layoff because of a back injury.

Since it only looks like one of the veteran centers will play, that means Mathieu Perreault will remain in the lineup, likely on the third line. The rookie has a goal, two assists and a plus minus rating of plus four in four games with Washington.

In other words, he's been quite impressive.

"I think Mathieu has been really good," Boudreau said. "We want to see him. See what he does. With young guys it's all about consistency. We want to see how long he can go and do it."

Perreault "brings a different a different element," Boudreau added. "I absolutely think the world of Stecks and Gordo as players. But they don't have that offensive capability to create things the way Mathieu Perreault does. It's a good spot for him."

By Tarik El-Bashir  |  November 13, 2009; 11:53 AM ET
 
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Next: Nylander update

Comments

Don't understand why Schultz would be a "healthy scratch" when he's hurt.

As for Ovi -- Keep em guessing, Bruce. For me, I'd say take the time you need.

Posted by: Sonyask | November 13, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Did not see Juice get hurt last game, did anyone else notice anything? And nice to see BB is gonna keep Perrault around, love the kids drive and grit....and those hands are simply amazing!

Posted by: PhilR | November 13, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Nylander update?

Posted by: Redwolf1 | November 13, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Juice is just "hurt." Not hurt.

He did had a pretty horrible game last time.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

PhilR -- yes, Perreault has been fantastic. That no-look backhanded pass of his in the third against the Isles was so smooth.

I'm looking forward to getting back in the seats and seeing Mathieu live tonight. Hopefully there's no let-down. I can see how they got themselves up for the Isles with their 3rd meeting of the year, but with a big contest tomorrow night this one against a losing record Western team is more of an enigma. We need guys like Perreault to bring the spark.

Posted by: Sonyask | November 13, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I realize that Richmondphil but I did not see him visibly limping or anything to have a pulled muscle in the lower body....just wondering if I missed something...

Posted by: PhilR | November 13, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

And Perreault came very close to scoring in the shootout last game--the closest of all the others (except of course Semin & Clark).

Could someone tell me how exactly the plus/minus ratings are calculated and how seriously they are taken?

As for Juice being out--good! Maybe we'll take one less penalty.

Why is it taking so long with Nylander? I am assuming it's a done deal but want to know for sure.

Posted by: caraveli | November 13, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

I'm really liking what OchoCinco is bringing to the ice. He's making his linemates look good, kid has game.

Posted by: Steve_R | November 13, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

@caraveli

green was probably closer.

perrault had an open 5-hole on replay, but tried to up high. Oh well.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

caraveli, if you're on the ice at even strength and your team scores you're +1, get scored on -1. On the ice and score a shortie +1, scored on by shortie -1. No +/- for scoring a PP goal or being scored upon when short handed.

Posted by: Steve_R | November 13, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Could someone tell me how exactly the plus/minus ratings are calculated and how seriously they are taken?

________________________

+ for on the ice for even strength goals for.
- for on the ice for even strength goals against.
- for on the ice for powerplay goal against. (meaning, if you are on the PK and they score, you get a - )
nothing for being on the ice when your team scores on the PP.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, you also get a + for being on the ice during a shortie.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Really excited about the Caps in the next two to three years at the center position....Backstrom, Perreault, and Johannson coming through the system and of course having Stecks centering that checking line....that is a very deep position for the team in the not so distant future.....unfortunately I think Baby Gus is going to be a bust...

Posted by: PhilR | November 13, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Listen to Steve-R. :)

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

caravelli -

Eklund & his hockeybuzz.com jinxed the deal when he reported that Nylander was an E5 to the KHL.

Posted by: puckman | November 13, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

My impressions to why Nylanders deal is taking so long, may be that more than one KHL club is interested in him. Caps management is just waiting and allowing them to outbid each other.

Posted by: guer_j | November 13, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

I was really hoping Steckel would find a scoring touch this year...he was decent on offense during both series last year.

It hasnt turned out well for him..Im sure the loss of his grandmother will motivate him...I hope he lights the lamp some soon...

Posted by: SA-Town | November 13, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=505975


HOLY CRAP, this guy is named Zaytsev! Can we PLEASE draft him at all cost. (Although I would really really really prefer it if he didn't model his game after Green..lol)

I have a small obsession with great war snipers, and Zaytsev is perhaps the 2nd most famous sniper ever.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, the above comments are correct except that a PP goal against is not a minus.

It's a stat that's taken pretty seriously but is somewhat hard to interpret since it reflects what happened when the player was on the ice, not necessarily what that player did or didn't do.

Posted by: yosemite_sam | November 13, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Thanks GMGM for the Nylander update on Wednesday. Wait....

Posted by: JD09 | November 13, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Steve_R

Thanks so much. So the reason you can tell someone is not a two-way player by this rating is that if the other team scores while you are on the ice then you didn't do your part defensively, right?

guer_ hope you are right. Come on the rumor came from way too many reliable sources not to be true. And it makes sense in light of Nyls' stint to the minors and the timing of it.

Posted by: caraveli | November 13, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

I'm really liking the coach's assessment of "Mini Me" (85). (And that would make Ovechkin Dr. Evil.) Steckel and Gordon are too much the same thing. The 3rd line was very effective with Perreault, Clark and Fehr. Good to keep them together. They aren't so much a checking line but a pesky line, and that can work well for line #3. Clark can be ornery and hopefully Fehr can play with that edge too.

DaveUK (from other thread): The way you describe a shot on goal makes sense because it would be consistent. Obviously though from the data it's not being applied consistently by the official scorers.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 13, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, the above comments are correct except that a PP goal against is not a minus.

__________________________

Are you sure? I am pretty sure me and Steve-R had it down.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

You all have to be kidding me right. The ONLY time + or - is given is during even strength. If anyone has a man advantage there are not any + or - given out. Not for short handed goals.

So when teams are even strength, 5 on 5, 4 on 4, 3 on 3, if a goal is scored a + and - are given out.

As for how seriously the stat is taken. In the hockey world, very seriously, in the world of the fan, some think it is a useless stat. If you listen to hockey interviews of coaches or GMs you will often hear them bring up the +/- stat.

Posted by: fanohock1 | November 13, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

@richmondphil

you don't get a - for being on the ice on the PK unit if a goal is scored. You do however get a + if you score a shorthanded goal.

PP unit gets no + for a PP goal scored but do get a - when giving up a SH goal.

Posted by: ThePat | November 13, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

+/- is a deceptive stat. It's a good indicator of someone's play over his career, but not really good for game-to-game.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

(repost)
@All:

I sense yet another trend of improvement over last year:

Last year we would sometimes lose games by making mediocre enemy goalies look like Patrick f***ing Roy in his prime.

The year we seem to be getting better results against genuinely gifted goalies.

Examples:

1) CBJ's Mason shut us out through both previous meetings last year, and although we again lost this season's initial contest, we do seem to have solved Mason...big time.

2) Roloson was--by most objective standards--very, very good Wednesday night, and still we manged to pierce him repeatedly.

3) Yes, we lost to the Rangers, but in my book an opposing netminder who gives up 3 GA can't exactly be said to "own" you. In fact, history has shown that--as good a Lundqvist really is, he definitely does NOT own the Caps.

4) For any of a number of possible reasons, Caps' netminders have yet to record a shutout this season. Of course, the reverse is also true: We have yet to be shut-out.

Please discuss.

Posted by: Rhino40 | November 13, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Well it seems we have tons of people saying different things about +/-.

I'll let you guys decide that one, since that stat isn't much of anything.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Another thing not mentioned is that if Gordon comes off LTIR, and if Perreault stays up, I believe they are over the cap on a game-by-game basis. You are allowed to do this up until when you would be over the cap for season-to-date, and that you can't do. It's like if you get a dollar a day, and only spend 99 cents, you can then later spend $1.02/day until you've spent your accumulated pennies.

This would say they are at least hoping for a quick resolution to the "Nylander issue."

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 13, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=505975


HOLY CRAP, this guy is named Zaytsev! Can we PLEASE draft him at all cost. (Although I would really really really prefer it if he didn't model his game after Green..lol)

I have a small obsession with great war snipers, and Zaytsev is perhaps the 2nd most famous sniper ever.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:35 PM

@richmondphil:

Hmmmm...if only the kid's name were Vasily...

Posted by: Rhino40 | November 13, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

I like it! Dr. Evil-O and Mini Me! #8 and #8.5 are quite the combination, and I hope that if Nylander goes somewhere else soon we will be able to keep Mathieu Perreault up, because that little guy kicks A$$!

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Hmmmm...if only the kid's name were Vasily...

Posted by: Rhino40 | November 13, 2009 12:46 PM |

Seriously, how fitting is "Zaytsev" for a Russian who supposedly wants to "snipe" them top shelf like Green does?

I wish Ovechkin's last name was Zaytsev, haha.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

@fanohock1

You are wrong on +-....shorthanded goals count as a + for the PK guys and a - for the PP group. Other than that its all even strength.

Posted by: ThePat | November 13, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

@fanohock1: That is absolutely incorrect. If you're on the ice for a shortie, you get an appropriate +/-.

Posted by: snakegriffin | November 13, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

caraveli The stat is taken to mean different things for differrent role players. A checking forward (brads, stecks, etc.) would like to be near 0 or + by the end of the year. They don't score much and play against the other teams top gunners. A scoring foraward should have a + number related to there 5-5 points. So for ovi, throw out pp points then look at the points and +/-. You want a low ratio. so 2:1 would mean 2 points for every plus(80 5-5 points +40). ovi last year 110 points(40-50 pp points?) and +8 so 50:8 0r about 6:1 not too good. Semin 75 points(25?pp) and +25 so about 50:25 or 2:1 good +/-. D-men you want a positve number and the bigger the better. Green 73(30pp)+24 so 40:24 or 2:1ish pretty good.
BTW-NYLS 33 points(5 pp) 0+ no ratio not too good for a scoring line center.

Some say it is meaningless as a stat. It does let you compare similar role players on different teams and get some idea of the quality of their play. But, if your team loses alot you have abad +/- and if you win a lot you have a good +/-. You have to take the stat with a 'grain of salt'.
If the your top line has bad +/- compared to the rest of your team-they either don't score enough or get scored on too much.

I think it is generally overstated by analysts and such.

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | November 13, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

fanohock,

see the link and apologize for false accusations

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/scoresandstat1/f/plus_minus.htm

Posted by: Steve_R | November 13, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Yup, really sure:

Plus-Minus
A player is awarded a "plus" each time he is on the ice when his Club scores an even-strength or shorthanded goal. He receives a "minus" if he is on the ice for an even-strength or shorthanded goal scored by the opposing Club. The difference in these numbers is considered the player's "plus-minus" statistic.

from http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26374

Posted by: yosemite_sam | November 13, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Just because it seems like everyone was saying different/wrong things (including me), ThePat, could you post an "end all, be all" post to the +/- thing.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Yes, it leads one to wonder how long fanohock1 has been following hockey! We'll probably have to rib you about this one for awhile, so prepare yourself... ;)

Posted by: snakegriffin | November 13, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

From http://proicehockey.about.com/ --

Question: What is the "plus-minus" statistic and how is it calculated?

Answer: When an even-strength or shorthanded goal is scored, every player on the ice for the team scoring the goal is credited with a "plus." Every player on the ice for the team scored against gets a "minus."

A player's overall total is calculated by subtracting the minuses from the pluses. A high plus total is taken to mean that a guy is a good defensive player. But it's a very broad measurement and there has always been disagreement over how useful a statistic it is.

* Power play goals are NOT used in calculating plus-minus.
* Shorthanded goals ARE used in calculating plus-minus.
* Penalty shot goals are NOT used in calculating plus-minus.

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/scoresandstat1/f/plus_minus.htm

Posted by: Steve_R | November 13, 2009 12:51 PM |

This will do, thank you sir.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

@richmondphil

you actually said it right I think, I just misread it originally. +/- is an even strengh stat for the most part. But if a shorthanded goal is scored the PKers get a + and the PP unit gets a -. That is it, it is pretty straight forward.

Posted by: ThePat | November 13, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

ENGs do not count either.

Posted by: LukasWP | November 13, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I believe the going price for a false accusation is a beer, I'd like a stout please.

Welcome phil.

Posted by: Steve_R | November 13, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

+/- seems to me more of a "characterisation" of the unit on the ice and not of a single player ...

... it is similar to the statistics of goalies: if the defense in front of you is very good holding the other team to no shot on goal, the goaly will get a shutout without making one single save ...
... like Brodeur and the Devils D ... ;-)

Posted by: FCKoeln1 | November 13, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

+/- seems to me more of a "characterisation" of the unit on the ice and not of a single player ...

... it is similar to the statistics of goalies: if the defense in front of you is very good holding the other team to no shot on goal, the goaly will get a shutout without making one single save ...
... like Brodeur and the Devils D ... ;-)

Posted by: FCKoeln1 | November 13, 2009 1:00 PM |


@FCKoeln1:

Yes, it os theoretically possible...just a as a pitcher could pitch a no-hitter without striking anyone out (provided the fielders behind him don't allow an opposing runner on base).

Posted by: Rhino40 | November 13, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Yep think you guys finally got the +/- correct. Basically if you are up a guy and score thats not really fair, and visa versa if you are short you shouldn't get a minus. But if you manage to score a shorty, you get a +, theres no disadvantage there. Visa versa you get a minus for giving up a shorty cause you blew it man. Even strength is obvious.

Posted by: alagarts | November 13, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Steve_R: I do apologize. I am among the fools that don't know the +/- rule. I can't buy you a beer tonight because my son's stole all my tix for tonight, all 4, with Mom's support! Anyhow, I won't be able to go until the Caps vs Sabres game on the 25th. I will gladly buy you a beer for you being right and me being a bonehead.

Posted by: fanohock1 | November 13, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

The best stat for comparing goalies is save percentage not GAA. The stat for comparing team defense is GAA, since GAA is comprised of team play and goalie preformance inside the d-unit.

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | November 13, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

From an earlier thread:

The line from the Pgh guy is oft repeated from Western Pennsylvanians -- since Ovi takes so many shots and scores so many goals he must be "selfish."

It's a pretty weak effort to turn a strength into a weakness.

For those actually watching Ovi on a regular basis, and given the risks he takes with his body and the amazing effort he puts out on the ice, selfishness is not a term that comes to mind.

Posted by: Sonyask

An additional point is that Crosby himself has been working on the shot taking side of his game--he is fourth I believe in shorts on goal. Ovi is of course still ahead of the pack but no longer by as much. And IMHO I think that Ovi has been trying to look for that pass more often. And go the net more.

Both players are trying to improve other areas of their game. We are riding high at the moment--great confidence builder I think for our team to succeed without Ovi. And the Pens are hurting at the moment. But the season is long and I expect peaks and valleys with all the teams--just want our valleys to stay shallow which they have so far. I like how few actual losses we have.

Posted by: newbiecapsfan07 | November 13, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

I do get tired of Ovi bashers trying to dismiss him for his strengths--especially when Pens fans own favorite player is trying to be a little more Ovi-like.

Posted by: newbiecapsfan07 | November 13, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

anyone see a stat for shots taken(not on goal).

? how many shots do some other players miss the net with versus OVI?

I t may be an interested stat.

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | November 13, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

fanhock, no worries.

I'll drink a beer with you at a game, though with a lot of family coming to town the 25th might be one of the few that I can't make.

Let this be an object lesson for everyone: if you ask for beer you might just get it.

Posted by: Steve_R | November 13, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Lucas WP:

I really think empty netters count for plus/minus if teams are even strength or if teh scoring team is shorthanded.

Not certain though.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 13, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

I have a few problems with Ovechkin's game, but who really cares when the guy is is getting 50+/50+ a season with 250-300+ hits.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Re: Nylander...

KHL clubs can only have 5 foreign players on their roster at a time, so it's possible he has agreed in principle to go to a team that is itself trying to make a move to create space for him.

There's also the necessity for him to get working papers for whichever country he ends up going to. If there are several teams bidding for his services, and they happen to be in different territories, then that process would be delayed until a formal decision is made to go to Team A, B, or, C.

Remember, McPhee didn't deny the RDS story (and I'm sure he wouldn't acknowledge the Hockeybuzz entry). The fact that Nylander isn't at Caps practice should point to the fact that something is indeed happening, or may be done. It's a shame that the NHLPA is in such a shambles or they would surely be forcing this issue to resolution publicly instead of all this cloak-and-dagger, behind the scenes nonsense that is happening with the Caps front office.

Posted by: MetalCapsFan | November 13, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

If Void Gordon plays we should keep a flip chart with pictures of someone falling for everytime he hits the ice...need a long rail to hang them over....

Posted by: opus1m | November 13, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

The plus minus stat indeed takes into account only even strength and shorthanded goals, and not power play goals.

I feel that it is an especially useful stat when making intra-team comparisons. So if a player is higher or lower in +/- than most of his teammates, that's especially meaningful.

But I don't think that is the only way in which it is useful. People say stuff like good teams tend to have players with good plus-minus, so a good plus-minus on a good team doesn't mean that much. And what I would say to that is: Yes, a good plus-minus on a team full of minus players is probably more meaningful than the same good plus-minus on a team full of plus players--BUT, how do you think that good team became good? They probably got good by giving up fewer goals than they scored. And that player with that good plus-minus is a part of that good team.

It's a team game. It's a team stat. I like it. It doesn't mean everything, but it is meaningful, and it's even more meaningful if you ALSO use it in intra-team comparisons.

Posted by: youaresquishy | November 13, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Re: Nylander...

KHL clubs can only have 5 foreign players on their roster at a time, so it's possible he has agreed in principle to go to a team that is itself trying to make a move to create space for him.

There's also the necessity for him to get working papers for whichever country he ends up going to. If there are several teams bidding for his services, and they happen to be in different territories, then that process would be delayed until a formal decision is made to go to Team A, B, or, C.

Posted by: MetalCapsFan | November 13, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I hope this is true, but my gut tells me that Nylander would be playing over there already if he himself weren't holding this this up. He wants to play in the NHL and probably would be if the Caps weren't so resolute on not taking back any salary in a trade.

Posted by: cainoo7x | November 13, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

What do you think how the lines will look like against the Wild?

Will Mini-Me (Perreault) play? I think against the Wild a more offensive oriented centre will be better ...?

GO CAPS

Posted by: FCKoeln1 | November 13, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

anyone see a stat for shots taken(not on goal).

? how many shots do some other players miss the net with versus OVI?

I t may be an interested stat.

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | November 13, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

--------------------------
No, but I'll calculate Jurcina's for you real quick.

Every shot he's ever taken - zero on net= the answer.

Posted by: Chad8 | November 13, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

if you are on the ice for a shortie against, you should get a double minus... thats the way it should be

Posted by: joek443 | November 13, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

The only problem with the +/- stat as it is usually presented to the general public is that it's not divided by the number of games played. So when you look at it, you definitely have to take into account the number of games played. If you don't take into account the number of games played, with all of these absolute stats, whether it's +/-, goals, points or just about anything else, you just shouldn't bother looking at stats in the first place. They are all relatively meaningless if you don't divide them by the number of games played, at the very least (and it's also interesting to divide them by the number of minutes played).

Like Ovechkin and Knuble are both +10 right now, and ESPN says they are tied for 6th in the NHL in +/- right now. But Ovechkin has played 14 games and Knuble has played 18. So, if you take the top 120 +/- players (those with at least +4), and divide their +/- per game, and throw out those who have played only five games or less, Ovechkin is 4th amongst those players, and Knuble is 17th. If you just looked at +/- on an absolute basis, you'd have to go around saying Ovechkin and Knuble are top ten +/- guys, and that really wouldn't be fair to Ovechkin and you'd be grossly exaggerating about Knuble.

In fact, Jeff Schultz has a better +/- per game than Knuble right now. Schultz with +7 in 12 games is 12th in the NHL amongst the group of players I'm looking at as described above. But if you were just looking at his +7 on the ESPN website, he's just tied with about a million other players for 21st place, well behind the 6th place Knuble.

Jeff's number is truly remarkable, considering how much criticism he gets from Caps fans. He is the second best on the team in +/- per game, and besides Ovechkin who is ahead of him and Knuble who is not far behind him, no one else is even close (unless you want to count Perrault who has played only four games but is +4 so far and is therefore #1 on the Capitals). The next best Capital after Knuble is Pothier, and Schultz' +/- per game is a full 33.33% better than Pothier's. That's really something.

Yes I know that part of a player's value is how likely he is to get injured, but we need to keep games lost to injury in a separate category. Most injuries are random and not really a reflection of how good a player is at not getting injured. It may be that some players with a lot of injuries are more prone to getting injured, sure. But all of these stats are already difficult enough to think about without conflating them.

So, yeah, the dumbest thing about the plus-minus stat is just that it's typically not divided per-game. But that's something that's dumb about most stats as they are typically presented. Other than that, I like it. It's not the ultimate argument settler or anything, but I think it means a lot.

Posted by: youaresquishy | November 13, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

if you are on the ice for a shortie against, you should get a double minus... thats the way it should be

Posted by: joek443 | November 13, 2009 1:40 PM

haha

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

if you are on the ice for a shortie against, you should get a double minus... thats the way it should be

Posted by: joek443 | November 13, 2009 1:40 PM

Then you should get a triple minus if you are on a 2 man advantage as well, right?

Posted by: pkendrick | November 13, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

joek443

... and if you are not able to score a goal during PP, you should also get a minus ... ;-)

Posted by: FCKoeln1 | November 13, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

More fan love for Chris Bourque- from the pensblog:

"Actually, our apathy toward the Pens is centered around Chris Bourque. New rule: We aren't recapping a game until Bourque scores, retires, or is sent to the minors. Being a healthy scratch is not part of the negotiation. Yeah, he had an assist in this one, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Wide open net. wtf."

Posted by: Fro_ | November 13, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

... oha :-)

let's see:
... if you are
- on a 2 man advantage,
- getting a shortie, and
- not scoring
makes a quadruple minus ... ;-)

Posted by: FCKoeln1 | November 13, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

RE: +/-

I've always wanted it to be as it is currently, and additionally, you get a - if you're in the box during a PP goal. If you want to even it out, maybe you get a + for drawing the penalty that leads to a PP goal?

+/- is supposed to be an even strength stat though.

Posted by: Raber | November 13, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

The thing is this.

A lot of times, when folks go around saying stuff like the +/- stat is not very meaningful, it is because on a typical stats sheet +/- is the only stat that ever has any bearing whatsoever on a player's DEFENSE. And so it's kind of natural to equate the +/- stat with an attempt to measure defensive skill. And if you use it like that, then, yes, it's not that meaningful. For example, Ovechkin is very high in +/-, but few think that Ovechkin would be all that great of a defenseman.

The thing with +/- is that it just isn't a defensive stat, and it doesn't pretend to be. It involves PLUS too. It's offense minus defense. So it could reflect how good you are at offense, how good you are at defense, or both. What it's good at is giving you some idea of OVERALL value.

If you want to insist on using it to evaluate defense skills only, then, yes, it's not necessarily a particularly great measure of that. There are no good defensive statistics in a typical stats sheet.

Posted by: youaresquishy | November 13, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

@Fro_:

It seems as if it wasn't such a bad decission to let him go ...

("missing a wide open net" ... maybe his heart is still beating for the CAPS after all ...)

Posted by: FCKoeln1 | November 13, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Re Nylander:
http://news.sport-express.ru/2009-11-13/330936/

Here's a translation:

Striker Michael Nylander could pursue a career in CSKA. According to the "SE", talks of the army club with 37-year-old Swedish forward to a close, and the contract can be signed in coming days. Recall that the attacker "Washington" was recently exhibited the leadership of the club on draft failures, but nobody in the NHL has not shown interest in the veteran. Hockey player himself did not rule out the possibility of moving to the KHL. Interest in Nylander exercised Minsk "Dynamo", and hockey player himself, according to the Canadian Francophone television network RDS, has agreed to the transition. But yesterday executives Dynamo announced that negotiations on the transition Nylander in the Belarusian club has not yet been completed, the correspondent "SE" Vladimir Jurin.

November 13, 2009

Posted by: tess2201 | November 13, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

What would be nice to see on a typical stats sheet would be one column for PLUS per game, another column for MINUS per game, and then a third for total +/- per game.

Then you could look at the MINUS column if you wanted a defense-only type of stat, and compare it to other players in the league and other players on the same team. That would be great.

Posted by: youaresquishy | November 13, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

cadlecreek1, yosemite_sam, |irockthered ,youaresquishy & others:

Thanks so much for the +/- analysis. I am saving all your comments so I can go over them. It sounds complicated but I guess it give you a more holistic picture of a player than how many goals he scores.

About Nyls: I like the idea of getting his papers in order being the reason for the delay. Maybe it is travel papers and maybe it is finalizing on paper the financial deal between the Caps and the other team. I can't stand the wait.

Posted by: caraveli | November 13, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

+/- is not a measure of defense but a players role on the team. A top gun scorer better have a high + rating at the end of the season. A defensive forward will do well to be even. A scoring d-man like green should be positive. Again, depends on the team overall performance. Not many + players on losing teams. It can be real good at pointing out a discrepancy within a team. A player with a huge - and the rest of the team is +. Or a player with 110 points that ends the season +8(see OVI 2008-2009) or Semin 75 points + 24->why the difference. It is not a good, 'this guy needs to be in the HOF with a +/- like that'. It is always better to be +, but it doesn't tell you much as a stand alone stat.

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | November 13, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

I hope this is true, but my gut tells me that Nylander would be playing over there already if he himself weren't holding this this up. He wants to play in the NHL and probably would be if the Caps weren't so resolute on not taking back any salary in a trade.

Posted by: cainoo7x | November 13, 2009 1:39 PM

Yeah, I'm sure the prospect of heading over there and leaving his family behind is not to inviting. Let's not forget the pride factor. Nylander has been a good soldier through this ordeal, so maybe this is a little payback to the Caps management for handling things in this manner. He gets paid no matter what, obviously wants to play, and is not being allowed to fulfill his contract. I'd be fairly POed as well and would obstruct as much as possible at this point. Regardless of our individual opinions of Nylander's play last season, the Caps are effectively destroying what's left of his career.

Posted by: MetalCapsFan | November 13, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

If you are going to call me out, you can just go ahead and do it.

+/- has as many downfalls to it as you can put up positives for it. All stats do, whether you want to realize them or not.

Scenario; Bobby Orr and Trevor Kidd are d-partners. Despite Orr playing the best defensive hockey ever, he will still take a (-) for all the times Kidd goofs up.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

And, really, the plus minus stat OUGHT to take into account only even strength.

If you score shorthanded or give up a shorthanded goal, you should get a little extra plus or a little extra minus for that, depending on whether you're up or down one man or two. For example, let's say your opponent is on a 5-on-4 power play. I guess you'd throw in the goalies so it'd really be 6 on 5, and since if you score a goal, it means that you did it when your opponent had 20% more people on the ice than your team did, probably it'd make sense to give you a +1.2 rather than just a +1.

And you could also incorporate power play goals but just give a little less plus (and power play goals against but just give a little less minus).

Either +/- should incorporate both power play goals and shorties on a pro-rated basis, or it should ignore both. Counting shorties as +1, shorties-against as -1, and just ignoring what happens on power plays--that's just kind of strange. But that is the way it's done, for whatever reason.

Posted by: youaresquishy | November 13, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

The NHLPA and their lack of assistance to Nylander...

Bryan McCabe's rift with the Leafs in 2008 and the NHLPA's efforts to support him:

http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2008/07/mccabe-nhlpa-healy.html

Pertinent quote from (former) NHLPA director of player affairs Glenn Healy:

"...They do not have the right to destroy Bryan McCabe’s career. They gave him as restrictive a contract as there is in the NHL today. If they want to go to the most extreme of situations and tell him they will pay him to stay at home, the artillery will be released from our end. The P.A. will back Bryan to the grave, I guarantee it...

“Bryan McCabe has lots of hockey left, and the Toronto Maple Leafs are not going to tell him to stay at home… not a chance... You can’t destroy a player’s craft by sitting him at home and basically telling him, ‘your career is over.’ That type of action would be something for the legal minds at the P.A. to deal with...

With that type of a welcome mat, I can’t see why there isn’t a rush for all the free agents in the world to come and sign with the hockey club. I mean, that’s just a wonderful way to treat a player...

But, there will be absolutely no limit to what the Players’ Association will try to throw at [the Leafs]. We’ll go at it hard..."

The circumstances are not exactly the same, but it makes one wonder how Nylander should have benefitted from paying his union dues had the PA not been in the midst of imploding while this situation with the Capitals drags on and on.

Posted by: MetalCapsFan | November 13, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

richmondphil: That is precisely why the +/- is used as a tool for a coach. If a pairing is regularly in the "-" he will alter his pairings until he finds the right match. Sometimes there are so many things going on that a coach doesn't really have time to look up and see who was on the ice so a statistician takes care of it and the coach will analyze for adjustments later. BTW, Trevor Kidd, c'mon you coulda pulled another defenseman out of a hat for a partner rather than a goaltender.

I'm not arguing with you, as a coach for the last few years I use the +/- stat to assist in altering O lines and D pairings all the time. It really helps in creating balance on the team.

Posted by: fanohock1 | November 13, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Isn't Trevor Kidd a goalie how is he Orr's d-partner, but point taken. That is why the stat is meaningless by itself. It needs to be in some sort of context.

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | November 13, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I acknowledged the +/- as an effective stat, I just think squishy is going a bit overboard here. It has it's downfalls.

As for the Trevor Kidd thing, it seemed I deleted part of my comment by accident. I originally had McCarthy there and Kidd as the goalie. (And I think the goalie does still make a significant impact on this stat)
You can flip the scenario and make up an ultimate two-way line and put Doig and McCarthy on the blue line. Their +/- would be buffered by the hypothetical line of..lets say, Forsberg, Messier, and Lindros.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

like most stats,i think plus minus should be an avearage like GAA. your +/- stat is averaged per 60 minutes of ice time (or 60 minutes of even strength time).

for example, if you are a 25 minute per game dman who's matched up against the other teams top line and are on the ice for two goals in a game, your +/- avg would be -4.8 for the game. if you are a 10 minute a guy fouth line fwd and are on for -2 goals, your +/- avg would be -6.

right now on the stat sheet, both would show up as -2 despite the disparity in ice time. thats one of the problems with +/- stats.

i also thing pp % should be similar. if a team gets a 10 second pp due to overlapping penalties and doesnt score, it counts just as much as if you didnt score on a full 5 minute pp. pp% should be based upon the rate of goals per 2 minutes of actual pp time.

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | November 13, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Isn't Trevor Kidd a goalie how is he Orr's d-partner, but point taken. That is why the stat is meaningless by itself. It needs to be in some sort of context.

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | November 13, 2009 2:26 PM |

Typo. Just think of the #1 pylon that comes to mind.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

LukasWP, tominfl -

Yes, ENGs do count in plus/minus. Let's look at Crysby's results from last night's losing effort:

NJ-Pitt score : how it happened
0-1 : even strength, 87 on ice, +1
1-1 : even strength, 87 on ice, back to even
2-1 : power play, 87 not on, still even
3-1 : even strength, 87 not on, still even
4-1 : even strength, empty net, 87 on ice, -1

You can confirm by looking at the play by play - http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20092010/PL020256.HTM - and box score - http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2009020256 .

Posted by: yosemite_sam | November 13, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Point taken. And I agree that all of these stats on your typical stats sheet are problematic, and more for some players than others, depending on who their teammates are, just because hockey is very much a team game.

Ultimately, if you really want to know how good a player is, you have to watch him, game after game, and reach a judgment based on that plus your experience with watching other players year after year plus maybe what other folks have to say about it.

Or else you can look at stats one player compiled with one set of teammates or linemates vs. stats compiled with another, and look at the teammates' or linemates' relative stats and compare theirs to their teammates and linemates, and go on and on like that for forever, feed it all into some kind of super BCS style computer, and maybe it will spit out something really very meaningful. But that is difficult to actually sit and do.

But, as far as stats go, at least the ones on your typical stats sheet, I like the +/- one. I like statistics. And I don't think they ever tell you nothing, and I think sometimes they tell you quite a bit, depending on which player you're talking about. Bobby Orr's stats mean a lot to me, and they serve as further evidence that he is a great player, in addition to the fact that I have never heard of anyone who ever watched him play, at least in his prime years, saying anything other than that he was absolutely awesome. Because I never really saw him play (except a game on ESPN Classic here and there). So, for a player like that especially, the numbers mean a lot to me. And anyone who often was on the ice with a teammate like that--yes their good numbers aren't nearly as meaningful.

Posted by: youaresquishy | November 13, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

McCabe had an No Trade Clause and the Leafs wanted him to waive it. So, management threatened to send him home and not allow him to play. Read on...

http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2008/06/leafs-need-to-tread-carefully-with.html

Again, not exactly the same as Nylander, but close enough to use as a comparative tale. Of course, McCabe is now playing in sunny Florida, and finally waived his NTC after he received a $2 million roster bonus on Sept. 1st, 2008 (he was traded the next day, shrewd businessman right there).

Posted by: MetalCapsFan | November 13, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Caps prospect Garrett Mitchell in a tussle, lays a big beatdown on an opponent who kneed one of Mitchell's teammates. Looks like he broke his nose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IM-2fvXD-I&feature=player_embedded

Posted by: cstanton1 | November 13, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

But, as far as stats go, at least the ones on your typical stats sheet, I like the +/- one. I like statistics. And I don't think they ever tell you nothing, and I think sometimes they tell you quite a bit, depending on which player you're talking about. Bobby Orr's stats mean a lot to me, and they serve as further evidence that he is a great player, in addition to the fact that I have never heard of anyone who ever watched him play, at least in his prime years, saying anything other than that he was absolutely awesome. Because I never really saw him play (except a game on ESPN Classic here and there). So, for a player like that especially, the numbers mean a lot to me. And anyone who often was on the ice with a teammate like that--yes their good numbers aren't nearly as meaningful.

Posted by: youaresquishy | November 13, 2009 2:30 PM |

I understand it's quite an absurd hypothetical, but I was just giving a basic counter-example.

Like I said, I can acknowledge the positives of a +/-, but depending on the viewpoint you are trying to take, it can be meaningless too. Any stat can be very meaningful, or very meaningless, depending on the context you are looking at it.

Lemaire just made a comment about Bergfors. Despite him putting up a career high 3 pts, Lemaire demoted him to the 4th line for not playing well. Just another telling of how any stat can be spun either way, even the seemingly all-objective ones like goals, assists, save %, etc.

Posted by: richmondphil | November 13, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Stat talk contribution:

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_report.php

Check out the site, pretty awesome, especially for fantasy hockey with the "Line Production" stat generator:

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_production.php

Posted by: MetalCapsFan | November 13, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Re Nylander:
http://news.sport-express.ru/2009-11-13/330936/

Here's a translation:

Striker Michael Nylander could pursue a career in CSKA. According to the "SE", talks of the army club with 37-year-old Swedish forward to a close, and the contract can be signed in coming days. Recall that the attacker "Washington" was recently exhibited the leadership of the club on draft failures, but nobody in the NHL has not shown interest in the veteran. Hockey player himself did not rule out the possibility of moving to the KHL. Interest in Nylander exercised Minsk "Dynamo", and hockey player himself, according to the Canadian Francophone television network RDS, has agreed to the transition. But yesterday executives Dynamo announced that negotiations on the transition Nylander in the Belarusian club has not yet been completed, the correspondent "SE" Vladimir Jurin.

November 13, 2009

Posted by: tess2201 | November 13, 2009 2:05 PM

Cool! Thanks for posting the story. Cheers!

Posted by: MetalCapsFan | November 13, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

@MetalCapsFan - Except for one thing: I believe Nylander's family is still in Sweden... they were at the beginning of the year, anyway, and I've not heard otherwise.

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Nylander will be a Washington Capital until the end of time.

At least it feels that way.

I hope this doesn't end up being yet another tease.

Posted by: tmac2yao | November 13, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: MetalCapsFan | November 13, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

*wince*

I've been following Metallurg Magnitogorsk this season pretty heavily... they just got absolutely SLAUGHTERED by Barys Astana, 7-1. OUCH! They're still in first place in the league, though, with Salavat Yulaev on their heels.

Salavat Yulaev defeated Traktor Chelyabinsk, 5-0 yesterday. Viktor Kozlov was credited with an assist.

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

richmondphil: I was going to use Green and double Nickel as a response but didn't want to go down that road again.

My favorite stat is win-loss. All the rest are meaningless, without a W. I am biased in the +/- argument since I normally centered a checking line and PK.

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | November 13, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

@MetalCapsFan - That's a really neat tool! I looked at top lines? Three of the top four on the Capitals' roster include Nicklas Backstrom.

Also according to that tool:

Ovechkin - on pace for 135 points
Backstrom - on pace for 100 points
Fleischmann - on pace for 94 points ... WOW!

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

@irockthered:
The makes two of us. I'm a huge Fedorov fan. He's been doing ok. The goalie for Metallurg, Proskurykov (sp?) has been tremendous. Metallurg plays at Salavat tomorrow...Feds against Kozzie, and a battle for 1st place.

Posted by: tess2201 | November 13, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

+/- good use

8.5 is +4 since coming up
Clark is -3 on the season and playing with 8.5 for 4 games.
What has changed?
Is 8.5 making the players around him that much better?
Has the opposition stunk?
Does make you think about 8.5 staying up though.

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | November 13, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

@tess2201 - Not quite a battle for 1st place. :-)

Metallurg is 16-1, 1-0, 0-4 = 22 games
Salavat Yulaev is 15-1, 1-3, 0-3 = 23 games

that's W-L, OTW-OTL, SOW-SOL...

Even if SY wins tomorrow, they will still be in 2nd place behind Metallurg, because they have played one more game.

Go Metallurg!

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Sergei Fedorov's brother's (Fedor) been called several times for "simulation" this year, though... Simulation = diving. I like the Russian term better. :-)

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Perreault should stay for a while. The thought of sending him down makes you think that perhaps we're a little fat around the middle. It would be nice if we could deal Gordo, but I doubt there's much market there.

Posted by: Sonyask | November 13, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

But they're both listed as 52 points, so if Salavat wins, they'll go ahead in points, although Metallurg would still have a game in hand.

Posted by: tess2201 | November 13, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Stats are really funny. In basketball, they have the "scoring champion." Must be the guy with the most pts, right? No! It's the guy with the most pts per game. And everyone accepts that. BUT, that's the same as calling a guy with 48 homers the "home run champ" becuase he did it in 150 games whereas the guy with 49 homers used all 162.

Some champs are by average, some by absolute number.

Americans love stats. Hockey could appeal to that by establishing more stats. For instance, for every 60 mins of even strength ice time, a player is one the ice for xx.xx goals for his team and yy.yy for the other. Subtract the second number from the first; if the answer is positive, that is good, and if the answer is negative, that is bad. This would give a better measure than +/-.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 13, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

@cadlecreek1 - What are Clark's stats for those games he's played with Perreault at center, vs. the rest of the season?

#8.5 is a great energy guy. He's all over the ice, and he's a playmaker, and a shooter, all rolled into one little package. Perreault just makes me wanna ask, "Can we keep him, mom? Pleeeeeeeease?"

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

And, you could have league leader for highest goals for average, the lowest goals against average, and the best cumulative, which we could call the "tominfl1 Trophy."

Ovechkin: "For sure I want Cup most, and also Hart and Ross, but for sure also I want tominfl1."

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 13, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

@tess2201 - I'm not sure how they do tie-breakers in the KHL, but that game in hand should put Metallurg at the top of the heap still... That 7-1 loss was painful, though! *WINCE!*

How are they doing points?

Metallurg is 16-1, 1-0, 0-4 = 22 games
Salavat Yulaev is 15-1, 1-3, 0-3 = 23 games

If that's done NHL-wise, Metallurg would have 16*2=32 + 5*1=5 = 37 and SY would have 15*2=30 + 7*1=7 = ... oh. Yeah. 37. I'm a maroooooon!

Still, I think Metallurg's game in hand counts in the tie-breaker.

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

1) No reason not to keep Perreault. Sit either Gordon/Steckel or both! What do they add? They are PK specialists and the team's PK stinks!
2) Yes, Steckel can win faceoffs, but thats a VERY one dimentional specialty/reason to give someone a sweater every game!

Posted by: fauxrumors | November 13, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

@tominfl1 - As long as we're handing out trophies, since there's one for the "best defensive forward," there should also be one for the "best offensive defenseman," and that shall be called the "IRockTheRed". ;-)

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Accidentally came across this old, in-depth article about Jose Theodore's personal life while he was in Montreal. Had no idea he was such a rock star. This is probably wrong, but I like him more now :)

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nhl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23920_4822674,00.html

Posted by: ranndino | November 13, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

irockthered
clark w/out 8.5->14 games 1G 2A -6 11pim
clark with 8.5-> 4 games 0G 4A +3 7pim

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | November 13, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

@fauxrumors - I know I'm preachin' to the choir, but unfortunately, we have only a certain number of players we can have on the roster. "Sitting" someone does not keep them off that list. IR does. If Gordon comes back from IR, we lose his roster spot, which was being filled by Perreault, so Perreault has to go back to Hershey.

Thankfully, waivers are not involved.

If Nylander goes to the KHL, we will be able to keep our little dynamo, but otherwise, no. Not as long as that roster spot is taken.

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

@fauxrumors - I know I'm preachin' to the choir, but unfortunately, we have only a certain number of players we can have on the roster. "Sitting" someone does not keep them off that list. IR does. If Gordon comes back from IR, we lose his roster spot, which was being filled by Perreault, so Perreault has to go back to Hershey.

Thankfully, waivers are not involved.

If Nylander goes to the KHL, we will be able to keep our little dynamo, but otherwise, no. Not as long as that roster spot is taken.

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

OOps - double post!

@cadlecreek1 - Looks like we have our answer!

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

@irockthered

I actuslly like their point system better than ours. Basically every game is worth 3 points and they get divided between the two teams as follows:

Win in regulation= 3 points
Loss in regulation= 0 points
Win in OT or Shootout= 2 points
Loss in OT or shootout= 1 point

Metallurg has
16 regulation wins = 48 points
+ 1 OT win and 1 SO win = 4 points
+ 4 regulation losses = 0 points
for a total of 52

Salavat has
15 regulation win = 45 points
+ 1 OT win and 1 SO win = 4 points
+ 3 SO losses = 3 points
+ 3 regulation losses = 0 points
for a total of 52

Not sure how the tie-breaker works if they end up with same points.

Posted by: tess2201 | November 13, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

@MetalCapsFan

caphit/point is officially the best stat ever.

Posted by: Raber | November 13, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

We need to start the 'drive to keep 8.5'

3.5 hours to puck drop LETS-GO-CAPS !!!!

Posted by: cadlecreek1 | November 13, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

@ranndino - Interesting article! Thanks for posting it. :-)

I'm pleased that the reported -*ahem*- canoodling with Paris Hilton didn't damage his relationship with Stephane Cloutier...

I'm also betting the incident wasn't nearly as -er- "canoodly" as the press reported it to be... Probably, it was about like Carol Burnett being depicted as "drunk" on the cover of National Enquirer... given she doesn't drink at all!

The Propecia report, however, is true, as is the scandal involving his father and brothers.

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

No time to read or write much, but just to chip in on 2 topics.

Add me to the list of those who would love to keep Perreault with us. The kid is a tremendous player and would be putting up really eye popping numbers if he were playing with better linemates. If he can make Clark look decent (up to now I thought that was an impossible task) imagine what he could do centering skilled guys. Not to mention that I'm at a loss to see what exactly keeps Boyd Gordon in the NHL. Matt is 10 times the player he is.

I'm really hoping the Nylander saga comes to an end. From what I read in the Russian media Dinamo Minsk are close to completing the loan deal for him. They're in turmoil after firing Hanlon and are looking for some new blood after a disappointing season so far.

Did anyone watch the Karjala Cup? The Russian team made up of the best the KHL has to offer was something else when it comes to entertaining hockey. So many sick plays. Also showed a typically Canadian character when it comes to making comebacks. Were down 0-3 to the Finns and 0-2 to the Czechs and ended up winning both of those games in a shootout. Sweden suffered an ultimate embarrassment of getting owned by their #1 rival, Finland 7-0!

I have zero wins for my goalies this week & it's making my matchup way too close. Starting Varly tonight. Get me a win, kid!

Posted by: ranndino | November 13, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

@tess2201 - Very cool! That makes sense, and is interesting, too. :-)

My command of Russian is limited to team names, player names, and the occasional penalty, though, so I don't know where to look for the tie-breaker information, either.

@cadlecreek1 - Sign me up for the drive to keep #8.5! I'm totally on board with that!

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

@ irockthered

I'm sure the report about Hilton is true and regardless of what actually transpired under the term canoodling the mother of his kid was surely not too pleased. Good thing my girl and I have a pact that if either of us ever gets a chance to canoodle with a hot celebrity we have the green light from each other :)

Posted by: ranndino | November 13, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

@tess2201 - Am I reading the stats line wrong, then? I thought it was W-L-OTW-OTL-SOW-SOL... that would give Metallurg 54 points, not 52...

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

@ranndino
"Did anyone watch the Karjala Cup? The Russian team made up of the best the KHL has to offer was something else when it comes to entertaining hockey. So many sick plays"

Now add in Ovi, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Semin, etc. and the Russian Olympic team is going to be very very very good.

Posted by: tess2201 | November 13, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

@tess2201 - Oops! I was reading it wrong! Like I said, I'm not firing on all cylinders today. :-p

И - Количество проведенных игр = games played
В - Выигрыши в основное время = W
ВО - Выигрыши в овертайме = OTW
ВБ - Выигрыши в послематчевых буллитах = SOW
ПО - Проигрыши в овертайме = OTL
ПБ - Проигрыши в послематчевых буллитах = SOL
П - Проигрыши в основное время = L

Ш - Шайбы = goals for/against, I'd guess?
О - Количество набранных очков = points

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: tess2201 | November 13, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

@ranndino - No doubt! The article said she booted him out the door, and I don't blame her! But long-term, it seems to have worked itself out.

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

@tess2201 - Heh. I've been reading it in Russian, and TOTALLY not paying attention to what I'm seeing, given how obvious it is when I actually look at it written out... :-p (((>.<)))!!!

Posted by: irockthered | November 13, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

@irocktheread

Regarding the KHL Magnitka is currently listed as #1 for the reason you guessed (less games played).

Also I found the info you regarding tie-breakers were looking for.
http://www.khl.ru/official/22007/

It's under the title Определение результатов и мест команд на Первом этапе Чемпионата section 2.

My own shortened translation (only what you need to know):

a) wins in regulation
b) OT wins
c) shootout wins
d) goal differential
e) goals scored

Posted by: ranndino | November 13, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

@ tess2201

IMO only one KHL line will make the Russian Olympic team. The Ak Bars trio of Morozov - Tereschenko - Zaripov which would the #1 line on half the NHL clubs. Everyone else will be from the NHL and yes, the Russian team will be sick. I can't wait for it all to begin. Nothing like international hockey to me, especially when all the best are playing.

Posted by: ranndino | November 13, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

I equate Olympic hockey to World Cup soccer. To the die-hard fan, it's awesome. And to the casual fan it's- well- awesome.

Posted by: Fro_ | November 13, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

@ranndino and irockthered

Enjoyed the KHL discussion today...thanks. I'm bailing out now, leaving in a little while to see the Bears play Norfolk. I'll be following the Caps on my Blackberry.
Go Bears! Go Caps! Two wins in one night would be very enjoyable.

Posted by: tess2201 | November 13, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

I finally get it. Today is Friday the 13th and Nylander is Jason Vorhees. He just won't go away. You think he's gone for good but noooooooooooooooo.

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | November 13, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Olympic hockey is the best. The NHL needs to keep moving toward that style. It might be a tough sell in Philly, but the league would benefit in the civilized world.

Another day, another $25,000 cap room lost, based on my back-of-the-envelope calculation. The brooding, agonizing decision process for Nyls kinda reminds me of a Bergman movie. Get on with your life, man!

Posted by: zmega | November 13, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

pokerface: I'll bet if Nylander comes into the locker room tonight, wearing the hockey mask from the movie, they all scatter.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 13, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

new post
Next: Nylander update

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | November 13, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

zmega: It's $4.875M divided by 193, each day. Whatever that comes to. In my head, $25K is very close.

Posted by: tominfl1 | November 13, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of Nylander, new thread, everyone.

Posted by: wocoliz | November 13, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

The russian team will be sick individual skill-wise....and the Canadian team will still woop them... The russian skills will not beat the superior all-around canadian hockey system (played on an NHL-size rink) and my money is with the Phaneuf, Boowmeester, Weber, Pronger, Doughty, Keith and Boyle defensive squad.

Posted by: atybat | November 13, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Then you should get a triple minus if you are on a 2 man advantage as well, right?

Posted by: pkendrick | November 13, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

damn right :)

Posted by: joek443 | November 13, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

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