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Posted at 11:57 AM ET, 03/ 8/2011

Line change: the value of Mike Green?

By Washington Post Sports

As Katie reported, Mike Green was on the ice at practice again today. He's still recovering from what certainly appears to be a concussion, though the Capitals management isn't saying so specifically.

Judging from the comments on Neil Greenberg's statistical analysis post this morning on the (lack) of offensive production by the Caps' defense, opinion is decidedly -- and perhaps surprisingly -- mixed on Green's value to the team.

Katie will have a story on Green for tomorrow's dead-tree edition, but it's worth pondering: Can the Capitals make a run in the playoffs without him?

By Washington Post Sports  | March 8, 2011; 11:57 AM ET
 
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Comments

We can, but our chances severely go down without him. He is our best defenseman. It's like if any other team lost their #1 guy.

Posted by: richmondphil2 | March 8, 2011 12:07 PM | Report abuse

We need Green back badly....He helps our D, our O, and our PP.

I think Wideman has been very good and am thrilled we got him, but let's be serious. He is no Mike Green.

Posted by: MattBradley10 | March 8, 2011 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Some days we don't get any updates and others, like today, we get too many and we can't keep a discussion going.

Posted by: fanohock1 | March 8, 2011 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Again, I have to ask, what does this have to do with not blocking a single shot? I know you feel the need to defend Schultz, but the fact that he played a 2 on 1 well has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he didn't record a single blocked shot. He's second on our team in blocked shots, so it's not like I am calling his game out, I am talking about this one single game. How does a defenseman, playing the PK, go an entire game without blocking shot?

Posted by: richmondphil2 | March 8, 2011 12:02 PM | Report abuse

What I am defending is the fact that everyone is acting like because he didn't block a shot that he had a bad game or didn't help us win that game. Even the league leader in blocks averages less then 3 a game and after Girardi and his massive lead that number goes to under 2.6 a game. If you get 3, 4, or 5 in some games you are going to have some games with 0, 1, or 2. What I keep trying to go against is those who are saying that he stood around not doing anything.

Posted by: icehammer97 | March 8, 2011 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: icehammer97 | March 8, 2011 12:20 PM | Report abuse

We goes as far as the PP takes us...Green helps with that. Yes, he is a defensive liabilty at times, but has improved. On the other hand, he is the best player in the world at skating the puck out of the defensive zone, and the Caps miss that. The question is which Mike Green shows up for the playoffs? If it is the same Green from the past two SC playoffs- we certainly do not need him.

Posted by: lylewimbledon | March 8, 2011 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Trade Green before injuries decrease his value. We need the Cap space to resign Hannon and Arnott. Bring up Orlov. Get picks and/or prospects in return for Greener. Eventually, this will be what the organization has to do to stay under the cap. It will keep the minors stocked and breed consistency...as painful as trading good and favorite players will be to see.

Posted by: capsfan0837 | March 8, 2011 12:29 PM | Report abuse

He is our best defenseman.
------------

I no longer am certain this holds true. Poise is so important for a d-man, and he gets rattled under pressure [ie, the playoffs].

As for our PP, it was pretty stagnant, even with him back there.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | March 8, 2011 12:38 PM | Report abuse

I no longer am certain this holds true. Poise is so important for a d-man, and he gets rattled under pressure [ie, the playoffs].

Posted by: Timbo_1

I agree with this, but he is still extremely important for the Caps to have back there. I think he will be better off this year as he will not be placed in as many high pressured situations with the addition of Carlzner and Hanna/Wideman. I expect to see those two pairs take the majority of defensive zone faceoffs(usually the high pressured situations), especially agains the opposing team's top lines.

Posted by: sgm3 | March 8, 2011 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Even you his adoring mother :) must see that he looks slower than usual, not as physical, and a bit out of position lately.

Posted by: capscoach | March 8, 2011 11:59 AM | Report abuse

I'm trying to get back to my roots, capscoach, as I let DJK interfere with main purpose here and I think Erskine's play has suffered as a result. He'll get it back...

I'll concede that #4s play has been a little uneven of late, but he's not the only one. Carlzner have struggled, and it looks like Carlson has hit the sophomore skids. Wideman, despite being a "plus" player the last two games, hasn't looked as good as his first two games. Hannan has been steady if unspectacular, and ****55 ALWAYS LOOKS AWFUL!!

And Rock Star? Well, playing w/his 5th partner in 5 games certainly can't be helping him much. Even considering his uneven play, though, he still looks/plays like a solid 5/6 dman. That said, he could probably use a "maintenance day."

The problem, though, is that he knows (AS DO WE ALL) that any day-off could hasten his impending banishment...anyone remember the name of the guy Lou Gehrig replaced in the lineup?

Posted by: vermontcaps | March 8, 2011 12:46 PM | Report abuse

I no longer am certain this holds true. Poise is so important for a d-man, and he gets rattled under pressure [ie, the playoffs].

Posted by: Timbo_1

I agree with this, but he is still extremely important for the Caps to have back there. I think he will be better off this year as he will not be placed in as many high pressured situations with the addition of Carlzner and Hanna/Wideman. I expect to see those two pairs take the majority of defensive zone faceoffs(usually the high pressured situations), especially agains the opposing team's top lines.

Posted by: sgm3 | March 8, 2011 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Poor balance, below-average speed, inability poke check or block shots in the clutch...Mike Green should probably be converted to wing, because he's a huge defensive liability. And these new look Caps can't afford his breakdowns to win in the playoffs. Either convert him, or trade him. We need the cap room. Orlov could be even better than him next year.

Posted by: JR1187 | March 8, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse

@sabredc
@tmcandrew2

You guys love to make sarcastic statements about the "goat's blooders" when we beat a team that has NO CHANCE of hoisting.

Two observations:
1) A guy like Toews (who you might run into
in the play offs, all be it, the finals), burries the shot Gagne missed.

2) Who doesn't allow possibly the biggest winner in a generation of hockey - St. Louis- to shoot in a big game ? St. Loius has dumped on the Caps since year one. Marty's story about being told on an almost daily basis that he can't play in the NHL and then hoisting is epic !
Fool for a coach. Marty owns the Caps, and would have made his shot !

Lastly, cheer now against an idiot coach and a rebuild team. The place we're walking toward is a dark, cold, windy forest. Only "true bad asses" walk out of the forest with the bowl. Those of us who have cried for decades in the forest, know what is coming. 16 wins with serious silent injuries has never been pulled of by this franchise. I for one don't think GMGM has placed ENOUGH "Hendricks and Arnott" type guys on this team, but he seems to be learning after 13 years. Maybe he now reads tmacs and stantons posts. (Hell, Ted did !)

Be careful how much trash you talk. Those of us in our 40's and 50's know what it takes to hoist. This line up is too soft to hoist. I AM HOPE I'M WRONG. DUMPING STECKS WAS A GREAT PLAY OFF MOVE. You can already feel the muscle Arnott plays with by watching how much more physical the team is playing. Good job GMGM !!!!
(Yes, pigs are flying !) go Caps !!

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | March 8, 2011 12:54 PM | Report abuse

@sabredc
@tmcandrew2

You guys love to make sarcastic statements about the "goat's blooders" when we beat a team that has NO CHANCE of hoisting.

Two observations:
1) A guy like Toews (who you might run into
in the play offs, all be it, the finals), burries the shot Gagne missed.

2) Who doesn't allow possibly the biggest winner in a generation of hockey - St. Louis- to shoot in a big game ? St. Loius has dumped on the Caps since year one. Marty's story about being told on an almost daily basis that he can't play in the NHL and then hoisting is epic !
Fool for a coach. Marty owns the Caps, and would have made his shot !

Lastly, cheer now against an idiot coach and a rebuild team. The place we're walking toward is a dark, cold, windy forest. Only "true bad asses" walk out of the forest with the bowl. Those of us who have cried for decades in the forest, know what is coming. 16 wins with serious silent injuries has never been pulled of by this franchise. I for one don't think GMGM has placed ENOUGH "Hendricks and Arnott" type guys on this team, but he seems to be learning after 13 years. Maybe he now reads tmacs and stantons posts. (Hell, Ted did !)

Be careful how much trash you talk. Those of us in our 40's and 50's know what it takes to hoist. This line up is too soft to hoist. I AM HOPE I'M WRONG. DUMPING STECKS WAS A GREAT PLAY OFF MOVE. You can already feel the muscle Arnott plays with by watching how much more physical the team is playing. Good job GMGM !!!!
(Yes, pigs are flying !) go Caps !!

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | March 8, 2011 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Who do we have that is better than Green? Previous playoff outings aside, he is our best defenseman and we need him for the playoffs.

Posted by: richmondphil2 | March 8, 2011 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Maybe he now reads tmacs and stantons posts. (Hell, Ted did !)
___________________________

lol.

Posted by: richmondphil2 | March 8, 2011 12:57 PM | Report abuse

And these new look Caps can't afford his breakdowns to win in the playoffs. Either convert him, or trade him. We need the cap room. Orlov could be even better than him next year.
------------

Tough to argue with much of the above, I just don't see #52 ever being moved as long as BB's in charge, he loves him some MG.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | March 8, 2011 1:01 PM | Report abuse

@vermont

Tie down Semin and #55 onto cold steel tables. Force a "Vulcon Mind Meld" on them the night before the play offs start. The donors: Hendricks to Semin and Brads to Shultz.

We might hoist the big ugly !!!

Vermont, it feel great to not have to watch Stecks and his "patsy cake" hockey anymore. Arnott is an NHL Hockey Player. He's a great addition !!!!!!!!

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | March 8, 2011 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Green, Backy, and Semin ALL need to have great runs for a MONTH for us to Hoist. ALL THREE. NO FREAKIN' PASSENGERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | March 8, 2011 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Who do we have that is better than Green? Previous playoff outings aside
------------

It is tough to simply set aside the playoffs and discount them; isn't that what Ted's stated mantra is, "it's all about the Cup?"

As for the first part, maybe no one all-around, just set - but Carlson's our best one-on-one defender, and he and Alzner usually make better defensive-zone decisions. Green's a phenomenal skater, but, let's face it, our PP has been pretty stagnant ever since last spring, even with him back there.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | March 8, 2011 1:08 PM | Report abuse

@richmond, I started with something directed at Vermont, you comented so I responded to you.

@Vermont, Walter (it think his first name was) Pipp. Erskine has also been worse then Widman, Hannan, and Alzner in the last games by far. He needs at least a day or two off and if he can't get back to the start of the season play he is playing his own way to the pressbox not BB.

Posted by: icehammer97 | March 8, 2011 1:08 PM | Report abuse

I'm more concerned if we can make a run with Green.

Posted by: cao091402 | March 8, 2011 1:10 PM | Report abuse

With the right coach (and drastic decrease in the partying) Mike Green could end up in the Hall of Fame. And I don't mean a bizarre Hall entry like Hatcher's !!! (WTF ! Guy was always out of position.)

Green can become a play off guy, but he needs a real mentor. Not the F-bomb machine. Can we trade coaches with the Pens? (My gut reaction after the HBO series !)

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | March 8, 2011 1:14 PM | Report abuse

...anyone remember the name of the guy Lou Gehrig replaced in the lineup?

Posted by: vermontcaps

Wally Pipp. I remember it because it is a bit unusual. But, I understand your point.

On to the subject at hand...

Based on his play in previous playoffs I wonder how much impact there would be if Mike Green was out for the playoffs. Having said that if he is playing his game, you're better off with him than without him.

Posted by: BetterOffWithFedorov | March 8, 2011 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Someone tell me how the Caps are 2 points behind the Flyers? We are playing terrible hockey...I would be worried if I were Philthy.

Posted by: SA-Town | March 8, 2011 1:19 PM | Report abuse

I think, if healthy, Green is going to have a big playoffs this spring as long as BB doesn't overplay him. Now that the Caps have more reliable defenseman and that Green will not need to take many D zone faceoffs, I think Green will thrive this spring as he will be facing less pressure to carry the D. He did not do well with the pressure the last few years, but I think this year he will face much les pressure because of the emergence of Carlzner and Hannan/Wideman as the other D pairings. Those D pairings will shoulder much of the D pressure that used to reside on Green.

Hopefully BB will keep Green's minutes to about 20/game (depending on how PPs the Caps get).

Yes, the Caps PP didn't do much with Green out there this year also. But he is talented and is a very good point man. I am looking forward to seeing a PP with both Green and Wideman(Wideman being in Ovie's spot) at the points and Ovie on the half-wall, with Arnott near the goal crease, able to pop out for some passes (i.e. Knuble in last year's playoffs) and knock in rebounds and having Backstrom playing the other side.

Posted by: sgm3 | March 8, 2011 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Green can become a play off guy, but he needs a real mentor. Not the F-bomb machine.
------------

@Hunterforcoach - a very astute observation. Athletically, the guy is an elite class - but he seems to get lackadaisical at times, and doesn't make great decisions under pressure. I think both of those are curable, but he absolutely needs the right mentor, and I'm just not convinced a guy for whom he can seemingly he can never do any wrong, and doesn't seem all that disciplined [c'mon Dad, no more ice cream] himself, is that guy.

DET didn't win Cups until Bowman came along and played the two-way guy [Federov] in key situations over the scorer [Yzerman] until the scorer started playing in his own end, and went on to become a great leader. But, that is certainly NOT the direction Stevie Y's career was heading, prior to that point.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | March 8, 2011 1:24 PM | Report abuse

We are playing terrible hockey...

Posted by: SA-Town | March 8, 2011 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Huh?

I hope you're being sarcastic.

Posted by: RITdude | March 8, 2011 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Based on his play in previous playoffs I wonder how much impact there would be if Mike Green was out for the playoffs. Having said that if he is playing his game, you're better off with him than without him.
Posted by: BetterOffWithFedorov | March 8, 2011 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Poor balance, below-average speed, inability poke check or block shots in the clutch...Mike Green should probably be converted to wing, because he's a huge defensive liability. And these new look Caps can't afford his breakdowns to win in the playoffs. Either convert him, or trade him. We need the cap room. Orlov could be even better than him next year.
Posted by: JR1187 | March 8, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse
@ BOWF
Given his play from the play offs last season through this season have you seen him play his game?? All I have seen is a blue line tea bagger.
@ JR1187
I totally agree with you however we don’t need him on the winger we have enough true wingers and he’s not worth the cap space. But as for your comment about Orlov, I have seen him play and while he is outstanding of a 19 year old he is not now nor will he be ready for the big shown next season. He needs at least a year in the AHL or sharing his time in Chocolate town and here.

Posted by: bqts | March 8, 2011 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Not playing terrible - just a different brand. Refreshing to see them win the close games with defense...we shall see if that translates in the Spring

Posted by: lylewimbledon | March 8, 2011 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Mike Green is amazingly talented !. Think of what the Wings (with a real NHL coach) could turn him into- a beast- even a "play off beast". The guy is begging for a coach that understands the art of DEFENSE and then the devastating COUNTER PUNCH. Which is basically WINGS AND OLD DEVILS HOCKEY !

Sabre dc, Both teams that hoisted often !

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | March 8, 2011 1:33 PM | Report abuse

What the hell is wrong with you Hunterforcoach? With the comments you make on here every day there is no way you are a Capitals fan, no way! The Capitals are two points away from the top of the Conference even though they have underachieved. You can call the Lightning an up and coming team but they have vets that have won the Cup together in Tampa, the coach may be Green, but they have leadership that should have gotten them over the hump yesterday. The Capitals won even though you were hoping they wouldn't so you could pile on more trash. I see how you are conveniently using the Hawks as an example now since you were called at as a Flyers nob hugger yesterday. Go spend more time watching your son or daughter play hockey and learn as much as you can so you too can understand the game.

Posted by: fanohock1 | March 8, 2011 1:33 PM | Report abuse

We def do not need Green

We wouldve beaten the Pens in '09 w/out him. Given his poor def dman abilities, we dont need him.

Posted by: Nats1924 | March 8, 2011 1:37 PM | Report abuse

How does someone saying that Mike Green - with his obvious talent, but penchant for glaring miscues in key situations - would benefit from a gifted mentor, equate to that person not being a Caps fan?

Does.not.compute.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | March 8, 2011 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Poor balance, below-average speed, inability poke check or block shots in the clutch...Mike Green should probably be converted to wing, because he's a huge defensive liability. And these new look Caps can't afford his breakdowns to win in the playoffs. Either convert him, or trade him. We need the cap room. Orlov could be even better than him next year.

Posted by: JR1187 | March 8, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse
---------------------------------------------
Does this post even deserve a response?

Just to let you know Mike Green plays for the Washington Capitals in the NHL. They play their home games at the Verizon Center in Washington DC and wear red jerseys while at home. While on the road they wear white. Mike Green wears #52 and is currently on I/R with "concussion-like" symptoms. I'll let you know when he comes back so you can see him play and not confuse him with the fella you described above.

Posted by: pokerface1208 | March 8, 2011 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the Wally Pipp answer, folks, and no one is more frustrated w/Erskine's play than I. That said, it's nice to be winning when not everyone on the team is firing on all cylinders (even if the wins are somewhat ugly), and that includes winning despite Rock Star not bringing his "a" game.

Concerning the overall team, I'd like to see Beagle and DJK in the next game. Backs needs to heal and Chimera could benefit from watching a game upstairs. DJK could be returned to the pressbox for another week after the game, but he'd feel included and the move could pay huge dividends for morale in the short-term.

Posted by: vermontcaps | March 8, 2011 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Two observations:
1) A guy like Toews (who you might run into
in the play offs, all be it, the finals), burries the shot Gagne missed.

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | March 8, 2011 12:54 PM

Remember when Crosby didn't "bury" a shot that was saved on the goal line by Varly ? That stuff happens sometimes, whether it be Gagne, Toews, whomever.

Posted by: MadCap1 | March 8, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Now call me crazy but it seems to me that Holtby might/should be the goalie that takes us into the playoffs. Yeah he is young, but so are the other two, and the biggest difference is he is the best puck handling goalie we got! It seems to make a HUGE difference when a team tries to dump in. Its almost like he is making the first pass out of our end that normally would be made by a d-man. Obviously, Nuevirth is the goalie 1a right now, but it would sure be interesting if Holtby plays a few more and continues to dazzle. I guess he needs to have a year or two with hershey and grab a few Calder cups first.

What happens when Fehr returns? Who sits? seems to me that Sturm better start doing SOMETHING if he doesnt' want to be a healthy scratch. Yes, he has had chances, but he needs to finish.

Loving what the Caps are doing right now. Would be nice to score first but since we cannot come our of the gate with any enthusiasm (achem...c'mon bruce...yeesh, play Hoosiers or something before the game for the love of god!) I guess we need the other team to score to wake us up...every single game.

As long as we get 2 points by end I guess.

Just got seats for Caps @ Devs and think it will be a great one!

Lets go Caps!

Posted by: SkinsFanInNYC | March 8, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Maybe he now reads tmacs and stantons posts. (Hell, Ted did !)
___________________________

lol.

Posted by: richmondphil2 | March 8, 2011 12:57 PM | Report abuse
--------------------------------------------
Buwahahahah! ROFLMFAO! Buwahahahah! Man I needed a good laugh today! Thank you!

Richmondphil you beat me to it buddy! OMG LMFAO!

Posted by: pokerface1208 | March 8, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Concerning the overall team, I'd like to see Beagle and DJK in the next game. Backs needs to heal and Chimera could benefit from watching a game upstairs. DJK could be returned to the pressbox for another week after the game, but he'd feel included and the move could pay huge dividends for morale in the short-term.

Posted by: vermontcaps | March 8, 2011 1:46 PM

Agreed on the Beagle insertion -- DJK, not so much. Are you suggesting that morale on the team is low because DJK isn't seeing the ice ? I think there are guys on the team who don't even know who DJK is.

Posted by: MadCap1 | March 8, 2011 1:50 PM | Report abuse

@SkinsFanInNYC

holtby has a very bright future ahead of him, but it would be damaging to put him into a situation he is not ready for. Let him be a back up for a year or 2 and see how it goes. Nuevy plays just as well and often better than Holbty.

Holtby has had some great games...but he has also had some stinkers.

Posted by: capscoach | March 8, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Timbo_1: My response to Hunterforcoach was not because of his entries about Green, it was this entry:

@sabredc
@tmcandrew2

You guys love to make sarcastic statements about the "goat's blooders" when we beat a team that has NO CHANCE of hoisting.

Two observations:
1) A guy like Toews (who you might run into
in the play offs, all be it, the finals), burries the shot Gagne missed.

2) Who doesn't allow possibly the biggest winner in a generation of hockey - St. Louis- to shoot in a big game ? St. Loius has dumped on the Caps since year one. Marty's story about being told on an almost daily basis that he can't play in the NHL and then hoisting is epic !
Fool for a coach. Marty owns the Caps, and would have made his shot !

Lastly, cheer now against an idiot coach and a rebuild team. The place we're walking toward is a dark, cold, windy forest. Only "true bad asses" walk out of the forest with the bowl. Those of us who have cried for decades in the forest, know what is coming. 16 wins with serious silent injuries has never been pulled of by this franchise. I for one don't think GMGM has placed ENOUGH "Hendricks and Arnott" type guys on this team, but he seems to be learning after 13 years. Maybe he now reads tmacs and stantons posts. (Hell, Ted did !)

Be careful how much trash you talk. Those of us in our 40's and 50's know what it takes to hoist. This line up is too soft to hoist. I AM HOPE I'M WRONG. DUMPING STECKS WAS A GREAT PLAY OFF MOVE. You can already feel the muscle Arnott plays with by watching how much more physical the team is playing. Good job GMGM !!!!
(Yes, pigs are flying !) go Caps !!

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | March 8, 2011 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: fanohock1 | March 8, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Just to let you know Mike Green plays for the Washington Capitals in the NHL. They play their home games at the Verizon Center in Washington DC and wear red jerseys while at home. While on the road they wear white. Mike Green wears #52 and is currently on I/R with "concussion-like" symptoms. I'll let you know when he comes back so you can see him play and not confuse him with the fella you described above.


Posted by: pokerface1208 | March 8, 2011 1:40 PM | Report

AHHAHAhaa thats great...except maybe YOU need to watch him play. While converting Green to wing is a fail because he IS NOT STRONG ON THE PUCK , he certinly is not our best D-man. That implies that he plays above average defense. He is the biggest give away liability on the team and he seems aloof for at least half of every game he plays. please next time you watch Mike Green skate , in red or white, count his good plays and his mistakes. If you come out plus or minus one in either direction he isn't as good as you think he is.

Posted by: zcjsculpture | March 8, 2011 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Snoopy will get some playing time for sure. When GMGM traded Stecks away he said that he felt he could do that b/c he was deep at the 4C spot with B Gordon & Beags. We all know that B Gordon isn't a stranger to I/R so Beags will be here. Question is, come playoff time would you rather have Gordo or Snoopy there? I think there are pluses and minuses on both but the biggest to me would just be experience. I really like Beags game though so it's a tough deal. My gut tells me as long as Gordo is healthy he'll be there. When he's hurt Snoop will take over.

Posted by: pokerface1208 | March 8, 2011 1:56 PM | Report abuse

BTW, when I was at Verizon Center for the 1-0 OT loss, St. Louis and his entire team poured off the bench like they won the Stanley Cup. Well, not really like they won the Stanley Cup, more like the Caps did last night after winning an emotional and important game on the road in OT.

Posted by: fanohock1 | March 8, 2011 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Two observations:
1) A guy like Toews (who you might run into
in the play offs, all be it, the finals), burries the shot Gagne missed.

2) Who doesn't allow possibly the biggest winner in a generation of hockey - St. Louis- to shoot in a big game ? St. Loius has dumped on the Caps since year one. Marty's story about being told on an almost daily basis that he can't play in the NHL and then hoisting is epic !
Fool for a coach. Marty owns the Caps, and would have made his shot !

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | March 8, 2011 12:54 PM

Not sure you can classify these as observations since they didn't actually happen. MSL has yet to convert on a shoutout this year.

Posted by: Moose33 | March 8, 2011 1:57 PM | Report abuse

zcjsculpture: Well, your opinion of Green differs from the hockey people. Finishing 2nd in Norris voting two years in a row doesn't happen by accident. He was passed over for the Canadien Olympic team because of his defensive zone play so he fixed that. You know what though, you have obviously made you mind up about Green and that's your opinion. The overwhelming opinion is that Mike Green makes our team better.

Posted by: fanohock1 | March 8, 2011 2:03 PM | Report abuse

He is the biggest give away liability on the team and he seems aloof for at least half of every game he plays

Posted by: zcjsculpture | March 8, 2011 1:56 PM

actually Carlson has the most give aways (top ten in the league) and Green is the best Defenseman...he logs the most minutes and he is very hard to replace when not in the line up...I can always tell when he's out...you can't always just look at the numbers...there are intagables in hockey. He is also a 2 time Norris nominee...no other caps are so I doubt the others are better.

Posted by: capscoach | March 8, 2011 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Wideman is partially offsetting the absence of Green, but he's not nearly as good defensively or at even strength. It's no coincidence that BB has him paired with Hannan who is our most experienced defenseman. With Wideman and Carlson, Green won't need to play 27-28 minutes every game during the playoffs so he should be more effective. The last two season he was injured and ineffective by this time of the year.

A concussion is a serious injury, but the time off may help in the long run for him to be fully 100% for the playoffs. People forget he's had a bad shoulder and a sprained knee during the season which he's played through most of the time due our lack of depth. Having Wideman makes his absence less noticeable.

Posted by: wizfan89 | March 8, 2011 2:16 PM | Report abuse

@ fanohock1

zcjsculpture is not the only one. There is a growing number of people who feel that Green liability for the Caps. While you mentioned that he was passed over for the Canadien Olympic Team and also mention he was passed over BECAUSE of his defensive game but he hasn't fixed anything yet, through 49 games this year he is a +6 not such outstanding numbers are they ???
You also point out he has been the RUNNER UP 2 years in a row for the Norris not the winner 2 years in a row.

Posted by: bqts | March 8, 2011 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Who do we have that is better than Green? Previous playoff outings aside, he is our best defenseman and we need him for the playoffs
-------------------------------------

One minute to go with one goal lead, I would much rather see Carlson, Alzner or Hannan on the ice than 52.

Posted by: joek443 | March 8, 2011 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Mike Green's highest value would have been as trade bait. BB would sulk like a kid who just lost his puppy if Green were to be traded.

BB has a photo in his book where he is quoted as saying "I love coaching Mike Green". Really?? Could you imagine Mike Keenan or Scotty Bowman saying that aboout any of his players.

IF he was traded the Caps would have been able to pick up several players in his place. The addition of Carlson and Wideman have made Green obsolete.

Posted by: SOMDHockeyCoach | March 8, 2011 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Who do we have that is better than Green? Previous playoff outings aside, he is our best defenseman and we need him for the playoffs
-------------------------------------

One minute to go with one goal lead, I would much rather see Carlson, Alzner or Hannan on the ice than 52.

Posted by: joek443 | March 8, 2011 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Agreed.

But one goal down, we'd all rather see Green.

And whether you like it or not, the modern def. of best defenseman includes O and D.

You can argue all you want about Green's TOTAL value, and what emphasis you would put where: you can't argue that there was a league-wide conspiracy to get Makie Green on the Norris ballot just because everyone likes the way he handles his scooter.

(I agree: Mike Green is a mixed-bag, but calling him out for "only" a +6 on this team is probably not the most effective argument against.)

Posted by: stevie_in_gp | March 8, 2011 2:28 PM | Report abuse

@hunterforcoach

"Maybe he now reads tmacs and stantons posts. (Hell, Ted did !)"
------------------------

You can include your name w/tmac and cstanton as posters Ted has read and dislikes, but being as modest as you are I can understand why you didn't mention yourself. Forget the Caps, huntsy, I want to "hoist the big ugly" for YOU!! :)

As for your comment to me, it's good to have a ring-wearing veteran in Arnott but, truth be told, Stecks was starting to grow on me. Yeah he looked awful in his 2 fights and he played with the emotion of a dead fish, but he sincerely looked like he was trying to adjust his game to the physical rigors of the NHL. Glad to have Arnott, but surprisingly saddened a little to see one of my favorite whipping boys go.

Best of luck, Dave Steckel.......


Posted by: vermontcaps | March 8, 2011 2:35 PM | Report abuse

and ****55 ALWAYS LOOKS AWFUL!!

Posted by: vermontcaps | March 8, 2011 12:46 PM

i don't think you'll ever be able to objectively critic schultz's on ice play - no matter what he does - he will alway look awful to you.

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | March 8, 2011 2:37 PM | Report abuse

@bqts

"through 49 games this year he is a +6 not such outstanding numbers are they ???"

Name one Caps player whoses plus/minus is better this year? Can't do it, so let's trade the whole team.

Come on man, get a grip.

Posted by: ttenner | March 8, 2011 2:38 PM | Report abuse

You can include your name w/tmac and cstanton as posters Ted has read and dislikes
Posted by: vermontcaps | March 8, 2011 2:35 PM

Ted and I have a lot in common :-)

Posted by: MadCap1 | March 8, 2011 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and also:

You also point out he has been the RUNNER UP 2 years in a row for the Norris not the winner 2 years in a row.

Posted by: bqts | March 8, 2011 2:17 PM | Report abuse

I missed this on first reading because it is a blindingly bad argument against Green. Wow. There are some very good arguments against Green - this ain't one.

Posted by: stevie_in_gp | March 8, 2011 2:39 PM | Report abuse

through 49 games this year he is a +6 not such outstanding numbers are they ???
You also point out he has been the RUNNER UP 2 years in a row for the Norris not the winner 2 years in a row.


Posted by: bqts | March 8, 2011 2:17 PM | Report abuse

wow...so many things wrong with this statement...first off... since the caps are not scoring NEARLY as much as last season (but are letting in WAY fewer) it stands to reason there would be lower +/- ratings.

And since he came in second two years in a row but didn't win that means he is a bad defenseman?...so EVERYBODY who didn't win the Norris sucks?

Last time I checked, if you were nominated for defenseman of the year a lot of hockey experst think you are one of the top in the league.

Posted by: capscoach | March 8, 2011 2:45 PM | Report abuse

@fanhock

I was a Caps fan from day one. I occupied a seat many times during the 72 game loss season.

Tampa is no where near being a Cup team. Are you kidding ? As for the Flyers, do you want to play that nightmare in a play off series? I don't. They're "play off animals." I did not see the post about me "being a Flyers nob hugger". I do remember sitting in my building for scores of games while Flyers fans burned it down during celebrations. They always go deep. I actually hate the Flyers. You jerk, but I
tip my hat to their 40 year effort. It way surpassed ours.

My criticism is that us old timers have seen dozens of Cup teams play in our building (many in our old division). They all have a common theme. They play with energy, grit, character, and grace. We are missing most of that ! That's the coaches and the GM's fault.

Hock,
I doubt you were there when Potvin, Bossy and company filleted us alive for years. You weren't there to see how Bobby Clark played and why he's a champion, despite his horrible disease. Were you ever in the building to see Mario and Casper repeatedly kick our asses? Doubt it. I've seen Cup winners from 20 feet away for too many hundreds of hours, you've watched them on TV or read about them.

Just because our GM got castrated on the way from Vancouver, and our coach looks like a fool when you set him aside LaViolette, Danny B, and Torts, doesn't mean that I have to just take it. I'm going to criticize MY TEAM when I feel they are not on a path to yank the CUP out of the Flyers, Pens, and Wings grimy hands.

If you can't see the CHARACTER holes in this team, then you're a "GMGM nob hugger"

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | March 8, 2011 2:53 PM | Report abuse

@fanhock

I was a Caps fan from day one. I occupied a seat many times during the 72 game loss season.

Tampa is no where near being a Cup team. Are you kidding ? As for the Flyers, do you want to play that nightmare in a play off series? I don't. They're "play off animals." I did not see the post about me "being a Flyers nob hugger". I do remember sitting in my building for scores of games while Flyers fans burned it down during celebrations. They always go deep. I actually hate the Flyers. You jerk, but I
tip my hat to their 40 year effort. It way surpassed ours.

My criticism is that us old timers have seen dozens of Cup teams play in our building (many in our old division). They all have a common theme. They play with energy, grit, character, and grace. We are missing most of that ! That's the coaches and the GM's fault.

Hock,
I doubt you were there when Potvin, Bossy and company filleted us alive for years. You weren't there to see how Bobby Clark played and why he's a champion, despite his horrible disease. Were you ever in the building to see Mario and Casper repeatedly kick our asses? Doubt it. I've seen Cup winners from 20 feet away for too many hundreds of hours, you've watched them on TV or read about them.

Just because our GM got castrated on the way from Vancouver, and our coach looks like a fool when you set him aside LaViolette, Danny B, and Torts, doesn't mean that I have to just take it. I'm going to criticize MY TEAM when I feel they are not on a path to yank the CUP out of the Flyers, Pens, and Wings grimy hands.

If you can't see the CHARACTER holes in this team, then you're a "GMGM nob hugger"

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | March 8, 2011 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Mike Green will never win a Norris Trophy simply because you need to play D to win it. No sensable hockey player or fan would vote for him. I've played hockey for 25 years and not a single player that I know(not being dramatic) thinks Mike Green is up to snuff in his own end.
Posted by: zcjsculpture | March 8, 2011 1:45 PM |

I played & watch hockey for 30 years. How do you explain Paul Coffey playing defense by keeping the puck away from the other team as a time & puck possession strategy?

Keeping a team off the boards is defense.
Executing it can be done in different ways. Witness Green last injury free year when he had 31 goals & no one was even referencing defense because we were the modern day Oilers.

Just like football, if you have the biscuit, the other team can't do anything with it.

The Capitals are not the best tape to tape team & if puck possession is grinding or grit then so be it.
But don't blame it on an individual defensive style.

Give it a break.
Injury is Green's problem not his style.

Posted by: Rocc00 | March 8, 2011 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Name one Caps player whoses plus/minus is better this year? Can't do it
-------------

Seriously? Backs, Ovie, Carlson, Alzner, Semin and Laich all have better than Green's +/- numbers this season than Green [in fact all but Laich more than double him up] - did you even bother to check, or do you believe that wishing something, makes it true?

Posted by: Timbo_1 | March 8, 2011 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Haven't done this in awhile, but it's obviously necessary:

Anyone above who bashed or spoke ill of Mike Green is hereby drafted into the Doofus Brigade, Company G. Get down to the supply tent on the double. You'll need a rifle, a pair of boots and the official outfit of the Brigade, which can be seen below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Cherry

Now, start marching!

Posted by: tominsocal1 | March 8, 2011 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Mike Green will never win a Norris Trophy simply because you need to play D to win it. No sensable hockey player or fan would vote for him. I've played hockey for 25 years and not a single player that I know(not being dramatic) thinks Mike Green is up to snuff in his own end.
Posted by: zcjsculpture | March 8, 2011 1:45 PM |

And that is about the stupedest thing I've ever read here. To get nominated as Norris Finalist means you got enough votes to be in the final three. zcjsculpture is hereby appointed Captain, Doofus Brigade, CO, Company G, reporting to larrydavid, Lt Col and CO of Basher Battalion.

Cheef is still Colonel and CO, Doofus Brigade, while Mike Milbury and Don Cherry serve as Doofuses Emeritus.

I can see that I let the draft board slide for far too long, and now we have doofuses all over the campus, running free and breeding like rabbits.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | March 8, 2011 3:05 PM | Report abuse

@vermont

I'm a little confused about all the laughter about "Ted reading Cstanton's and tTmac's posts". Ted followed the CI site for several days and supposedly was appalled at the negativity. I can only assume that he got a dose of Tmac and Cstanton. I'm not on here that much. The truth often hurts, Ted ! I think you're smart enough to figure out what changes you need to make.

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | March 8, 2011 3:07 PM | Report abuse

The truth often hurts, Ted ! I think you're smart enough to figure out what changes you need to make.
----------

Very well-stated, Hunterforcoach.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | March 8, 2011 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Ok folks.

With the playoffs coming up, who are our top 6 defenseman. I think Schultz is the odd man out. He does not play physical enough for playoff hockey.

Green-Hannan
Carlson-Alzner
Wideman-Erskine

Posted by: dsterp931 | March 8, 2011 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Interesting comments regarding Green...

First of all I question anyone who questions Mike Green's skating ability.

Before I get sent to the dufus brigade I wish to quality my arguments. I'm not ragging on Green. It is what it is. He's just not a big game playoff performer. To use an old expression and cliche, he just gets too uptight and squeezes his stick too tight in big games. I'm hoping that if he feels like he doesn't have to do too much he'll turn that around. He has big game performers around him (Arnott, Ovechkin, and Carlson). Maybe those things will help him get over the playoff jitters.

Posted by: BetterOffWithFedorov | March 8, 2011 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Mike Green completely messed up in the playoffs last season. If he does play in the playoffs he better help.

Posted by: rockthered74 | March 8, 2011 4:19 PM | Report abuse

@tominsocal1
And that is about the stupedest thing I've ever read here. To get nominated as Norris Finalist means you got enough votes to be in the final three. zcjsculpture is hereby appointed Captain, Doofus Brigade, CO, Company G, reporting to larrydavid, Lt Col and CO of Basher Battalion.

Yes I accept your nomination..I hearby promote you to Gunner Srgt. of Sarcasm.
Maybe I should have been more clear..no ones nominating him this year. I didnt say EVER did I. I would love to see Green win Norris it would mean he's playing defense... but go back to 1954 and read the list of Norris winners and tell me who is remotely close to the suspect defensive skill level of Mike Green?
He was nominated on those silly 70+ point seasons which were fantastic, but you cant tell me you watch the games and think Green is in remotely in the same level as Lidstrom, Chara, Keith, Doughty..right? As far as his Norris trophy hopes for last year what might have hurt him is Green had the lowest Quality of Competition (0.005) and the highest Quality of
Teammates (0.323). Compare that to Drew Doughty (0.027 QCMP, 0.098 QTM)
and to Duncan Keith (0.081 QCMP, 0.034 QTM). Green also played on a team
with the highest overall goal differential in the NHL, and had a disproportionate number of offensive zone starts as compared to defensive zone starts.
I do appreciate you singling me out as having something so insane that you have never seen it before in the comments section,
or maybe thats just your totally new use of sarcasm as a commentary.

Posted by: zcjsculpture | March 8, 2011 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Green can carry out of the zone and can pass quickly and effectively against the forecheck. In about a month, those two things are going to seem a whole lot more important to those of you dumping on 52 now.

We need Green. He has talents that this team can't get from too many other places.

Posted by: fanzee71 | March 8, 2011 5:01 PM | Report abuse

If healthy, the Caps d-men for the playoffs will be:
55-52
74-27
6-23
3-4-89 (in that order as extras.
Do you really think BB will bench 55?

Posted by: chriscaps | March 8, 2011 5:31 PM | Report abuse

@mattBradley10, @fanohock

Yes, agreed: MG still the best we've got. Much better puck skills and vision than Carlson, and better all around than Wideman. He passes the puck, and shoots the puck, as well as anyone on the team and he sees the plays developing. As BB says, a one man breakout.

Having said that, Green has a tendency to just get absolutely racked by people - Carlson and Wideman don't seem to better avoid the big hits. For one thing, they don't try to check a guy in the shoulder with their jaw, ala Green on poor Stepan.

Posted by: RedLitYogi | March 8, 2011 5:35 PM | Report abuse

@hunterForCoach - also a long time Caps fan. I think the Red Wings a much better, more interesting team than were the Devils. I'd like to see the Caps emulate the Wings and their organization.

Semin doesn't need Hendricks brain any more than Frank Sinatra would need Ozzy Osbourne's. It takes a blend of players and Hendricks is valuable in his role which, in fact, doesn't take a very high hockey IQ. (Which is not to say that #26 seems dumb - on the contrary..)

Posted by: RedLitYogi | March 8, 2011 6:14 PM | Report abuse

The Caps can win without Green now that they have Wideman and Hannan.

Green has been better defensively this season but it has come at the cost of virtually any production on offense, especially on the PP.

There has to be a balance for a player like Green to be of maximum value to the Caps and so far that balance has not been found.

Meanwhile, Hannan and Wideman provide the Caps with a pair of veterans who complement the top 4.

Hannan is a clear space in front of the net performer and Wideman is a guy like Green that can make the outlet pass to get the rush going.

Having Green back is a bonus, but I think the Caps can win with the defense they now have.

It all comes down to what Ovechkin, Backstrom, Knuble and Laich are going to do.

Are they going to join Semin and Arnott in producing on offense in critical junctures or are they going to remain mostly silent?

Posted by: RoyHobbs4 | March 8, 2011 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Mike Green is a great player. 29 other teams would jump at the chance to have him on their teams. He is young, still developing and will only get better. When he gets the right partner, he'll even get better. The idea that Jeff Schultz, who isn't even an NHL-caliber defenseman, has skated on the first pairing with Green for three years says more about Caps management than this incredibly talented young player.

Give Green an Orpik and give Letang a Schultz and watch what happens.

Posted by: professorhockey | March 9, 2011 1:22 PM | Report abuse

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