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McPhee on trading for D.J. King and re-signing Tomas Fleischmann

George McPhee said he didn't trade for rugged winger D.J. King on Wednesday because of a specific incident last season or a concern that his players needed a bodyguard. Rather, the Caps GM said he made the move because he believes the oft-injured King can develop into more than a designated fighter and that his toughness will add balance to one of hockey's most skilled lineups.

"We have no use for tough players who can't play or hurt you defensively," McPhee said. "What we see in this player is someone who brings grit but looks like he could be a reliable player. I remember Joe Kocur late in his career was a far better player because he gave himself a chance to play and actually held down a fourth line role with Detroit when they won a Cup. If we could add a player to the club who is gritty and can play, that makes us a better team. We think if we get working with this player, he can become a reliable player who can play a little bit more."

He added: "We categorize fighters in three different ways. One group, the least desirable, are just fighters. The second group are fighters who can play a little bit. The third and most desirable are players who can fight a little bit if they have to."

McPhee said he and his staff believe the 6-foot-3, 230-pound enforcer falls somewhere between two and three.

McPhee also confirmed that King, who signed a one-way, two-year contract prior to being dealt, will be in Washington next season and battle for minutes on the fourth line.

King averaged 4:30 of ice time last season with the Blues and 5:36 in 2007-08, when he played a career-high 61 games. Two seasons ago, Donald Brashear averaged 8:14 per game, so you've got figure the hope is that King can play at least as much.

When asked if King is expected to be suit up every night, McPhee said, "We'll see how things go, but what you want to have is the ability to have different players and lineups for the various teams you're playing."

McPhee also said he's not worried about King's injury history, describing his shoulder and hand injuries the past two seasons as "freak." As a result of the injuries, the 26-year-old Saskatchewan native appeared in a combined 13 games in 2008-09 and 2009-10.

"Those things happen in sport," McPhee said. "It's not like it's anything chronic."

In order to get King, McPhee had to part with prospect (and projected agitator) Stefan Della Rovere. The GM said he had not soured on Della Rovere, he simply felt he couldn't wait for the 2008 seventh round draft pick to mature into an NHL player - which, of course, is never a guarantee for some 20-year-old prospects. McPhee felt the Caps needed an intimidating presence on the Caps next season.

"Between him and Della Rovere, we see similar players," McPhee said. "But one is playing now and one will be ready in a year or two. We think we made a good pick with Della Rovere and we think he's got a chance to play in the NHL. He's just a year or two away in terms of development. But we wanted to expedite things and have someone who can do that now."

The addition of King gives the Caps 13 forwards under contract (when prospect Marcus Johansson is counted). It also leaves the Caps one player short of the 23-man roster max and more than $4 million under the salary cap ceiling of $59.4 million, according to CapGeek.com.

McPhee reiterated that he'll continue to monitor the free agent market but isn't actively pursuing anyone at the moment.

"We're prepared to go into the season with the team we have," McPhee said. "We think it's a really good team with good balance. But if something happens between now and then and there's an opportunity to get better, certainly we will explore it. But I can't say we have anything going right now."

As for Tomas Fleischmann, who signed a one-year, $2.6 million contract Tuesday, a day before his case was set to be heard by an arbitrator, McPhee said the Caps are "comfortable" with the deal. That said, had the case gone to arbitration and Fleischmann was awarded any more, the Caps would have been forced to make a tough decision.

"If we had to go beyond that number in arbitration, it could have been an issue where we're walking away or moving the player," McPhee said. "We've done reasonable deals with all of our players and we didn't want to be in a position where we were giving someone more than was deserved. We made that clear to them. They were comfortable with that number and we were comfortable with that number."

By Tarik El-Bashir  |  July 30, 2010; 11:45 AM ET
 
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Next: Catching up with D.J. King

Comments

Good info TEB. We're gonna miss you.

Posted by: Skullduggery65 | July 30, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Let us hope that King gets his hands on Cindy NEW YEARS DAY

Tarik, You da man!! Good luck in your other endeavors!!!

Posted by: broud0 | July 30, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Tarik, peace out dawg!

Your contributions will be missed.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 30, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

well there you go, nothing wrong with SDR. He was on pace for his development - about 2 yrs away from challenging for a spot.

So basically, had McPhee and his scouting staff simply invested at least one mid to late round pick each yr on a big bruising fighter type (like MANY OTHER TEAMS DO EACH YR), instead of being forced to address a need and having to deal away a decent prospect, he could've simply been grooming these guys from the minors on up and then select one of his choosing. Instead, he gets caught with his pants down as usual because of lack of preparation. I've been mentioning the Caps complete lack of attention to this position for a looonng time. Their draft philosophy is completely unbalanced with regards to quality role players, both upfront and on D.

How can an nhl team not have a single minor league tough guy they can call up on a moment's notice is beyond me. Over the past several yrs if we'd invested in a late pick or two on some bruising wingers, at least 1 or 2 of them would've panned out to where they could play a role on an nhl 4th line. Or you can go find those guys as free agents and sign them up like the Rangers did with Justin Soryal. They're a dime a freakin dozen and a lot of them can be groomed to eat up some decent minutes without being liabilities.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

yeah thx for the update TEB. I will miss that.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

The Isles mgmt basically was in the same boat. They decided to go without an enforcer last yr and had quite a lot of cheap shots taken at kids like Okposo and Tavares. The Isles mgmt was actually asked about their lack of toughness and they made some joke about how goons were useless ...then after Tavares gets plastered a few times, this offseason they revised their entire strategy and went and signed Konopka and Yablonski and resigned Gillies with 2 of the 3 fitting the description of "goons with limited ability"


the next question is - when DJ gets dinged up, who do the Caps fill that void with? Or does toughness no longer become a position of need for them suddenly?

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

As was pointed out by many posters on the previous DJ King thread, we all understand you don't like GMGM, but yet you seem to feel the need to repeat yourself endlessly.

The kid is 20, he could become good or he could go nowhere. Opinions differ on the subject. Of course GMGM didn't come out and criticize SDR, that would have been classless. FYI, presenting yourself with class is a good thing.

The deal was fine, get over it.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"So basically, had McPhee and his scouting staff simply invested at least one mid to late round pick each yr on a big bruising fighter type...".

So the Caps did use a late-round pick (one who won't help them for at least 2 years, if EVER) for a physical guy who should contribute physically this year, at barely the league minimum. And still you complain.

Posted by: capsfan77 | July 30, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

And yet here we are using one of those very late round picks you speak of to secure an intimidating presence. Is there a gold star handed out if the asset comes from the draft rather than a trade? The need is now not in the future. We're not talking about a potential superstar. A nice reasonably priced "dime a dozen" player for a 7th round selectee. Yeah, what are the Caps thinking? Rather try to draft high upside players and deal for the gritty and muckers as needed.

Posted by: McKinley2 | July 30, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

McPhee said. "What we see in this player is someone who brings grit but looks like he could be a reliable player. I remember Joe Kocur late in his career was a far better player because he gave himself a chance to play and actually held down a fourth line role with Detroit when they won a Cup.

-----------------------------

what he fails to mention is that Kocur didn't develop in a vacuum. He was the beneficiary of being part of 2 orgs (Det and NYR) who gave him plenty of ice time and in many critical games and critical situations. He played in 20 of the 22 playoff games when the Rangers won their Cup. Had Kocur been avail to the Caps under McPhee, he wouldn't have seen the light of day as a younger player. McPhee's not into developing these players from scratch. It looks like he waits till they prove themselves with another team first and show an inkling of potential. On the surface that may be a sound strategy but you do end up overpaying for that element once its been developed by another team.

Which is why we'd never look at a kid like Shawn Thornton or Travis Moen, both of whom were available as free agents even before they proved themselves in Anaheim. Now that they're considered legitimate players, it takes more money, more resources to acquire them.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

cstanton: I recall watching late in the season Isles vs Flyers Tavares is skating out of his zone, along the boards, and Pronger comes over with an elbow that he plants very high on Tavares' spine which plasters his face literally into the glass.

And Pronger just skates away like it's nothing.

I agree, Caps have spent a ton of mid-round picks the last few years on players not good enough to do anything well. If a player can do at least one thing above-average, he might be able to play at some point in time.

The Isles should be a good team before long if DiPietro ever comes back to form. They certainly have some young talent.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 30, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Of course GMGM didn't come out and criticize SDR, that would have been classless. FYI, presenting yourself with class is a good thing.
--------------------------

really? I've heard him say in the past that a prospect wasn't developing like they thought he would so they parted ways. You have a reason to explain everything. How in your estimation would McPhee have realistically stated he actually liked SDR as a prospect? Considering you assume his latest quote is simply a matter of him being "classy" and not trashing the kid.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

So the Caps did use a late-round pick (one who won't help them for at least 2 years, if EVER) for a physical guy who should contribute physically this year, at barely the league minimum. And still you complain.
-----------------------------

who cares WHERE SDR got drafted? Logically its completely irrelevant because he should be judged as the prospect he currently is, not as a 7th rounder. If we had drafted SDR as a 2nd rounder would that make suddenly make it a bad trade?

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

I'm going to agree "mostly with cstanton" on this one. Our system is full of would-be snipers but pretty much berift of near-ready grit. The "system," ladies and gentlemen, is apparently as unbalanced as the current NHL roster. Honestly, isn't this true?

Hopefully this is the beginning and we will see more of guys like Pinner who, from reports, can bring it too.

BTW, I almost had a heart attack this morning opening the Post and seeing, "Caps Moving to Minnesota."

OK, calm down, it's Capps...

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 30, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

He would have said the same thing either way. That is the correct way to present yourself when there is no need to give a strong opinion on the matter.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

cstanton: I recall watching late in the season Isles vs Flyers Tavares is skating out of his zone, along the boards, and Pronger comes over with an elbow that he plants very high on Tavares' spine which plasters his face literally into the glass.

And Pronger just skates away like it's nothing.
--------------

of course. Players know which teams they can take liberties against and which teams they can't. I doubt very much Pronger would've even come within sniffing distance of Tavares if a guy like Godard or Boogey was on that team last yr. Some players don't care and won't really change their game out of fear. But most NHLers are pretty damn aware of which nhl teams they need to be careful about riling up, and their play reflects that. The Isles mgmt was to blame for the abuse their kids took last yr, and McPhee/Bouds were to blame for the plethora of cheapshots our kids absorbed as well.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

He would have said the same thing either way. That is the correct way to present yourself when there is no need to give a strong opinion on the matter.

------------

so why assume that SDR had fallen out of favor? The logical assumption there should be to take McPhee at his word and it wasn't a case of SDR not being in step with his development as it was a case of having to give up some quality to get a much-needed element into the lineup immediately. i.e. being caught with yer pants down thru lack of preparation.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

GMGM and BB are also to blame for the economy, global warming, and wolrd war II, right?

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

The "system," ladies and gentlemen, is apparently as unbalanced as the current NHL roster. Honestly, isn't this true?
-----------------------------

absolutely. I've thought the same thing many times.

The only thing that keeps Hershey balanced is Doug Yingst who brings in guys like Ashton Rome, Boyd Kane, Amadio etc. If the Bears didn't balance their roster out with free agent role players, they'd be in a lot of trouble.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

The team lacks toughness has been beaten into the ground. GMGM sees the need and pulls the trigger on a trade giving up a prospect projected at best 3rd line for someone that can skate now and people are gnashing teeth? Let's say it again: prospect vs player who can skate in the bigs now and contribute now.... There is no making some people happy.

Posted by: Steve_R | July 30, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

GMGM and BB are also to blame for the economy, global warming, and wolrd war II, right?

Posted by: sgm3 |

uh oh, now you're stepping back into stupid territory again.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

I was not basing SDR's rating as a prospect on what GMGM says publicly. I was basing it on where many uninterested expert 3rd parties had him ranked as a prospect.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

@Steve_R

I agree completely.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

@steve_r

its slightly more than that. Its the fact that while other teams can fill this particular void from within and still hold onto prospects like SDR, the Caps thru a lack of preparation find themselves without any depth at this position.

You'd think after 13 yrs of drafting for us, McPhee would've picked up that he needed to amend his draft strategy and pick up quality role players in the middle and late rounds. I was hoping they were trending that way after selecting SDR and Mitchell. But in this last draft, they opt for more skill again. Samuel Carrier was a highly questionable pick at that point in the draft, they had much better options available to balance out their draft then picking yet another finesse offensive dman. GM likes those types the same way Spurrier liked wide receivers.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

I agree completely.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

you remind me those animals that blindly are driven by an innate need to get to the ocean, only to jump in and realize too late that they can't swim.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

uh oh, now you're stepping back into stupid territory again.

Posted by: cstanton1

I'm just trying to get back to your level.

Zing!

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I was not basing SDR's rating as a prospect on what GMGM says publicly. I was basing it on where many uninterested expert 3rd parties had him ranked as a prospect.

Posted by: sgm3 |

I'm sorry, when did a 3rd line agitator suddenly become of marginal value?

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I'm just trying to get back to your level.

Zing!

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

isn't this similar to someone laughing at their own jokes? speaks volumes.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

You can also sign those players as free agents and let them percolate in the minors:

Pinizzotto
Bruess

Posted by: Steve_R | July 30, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

i've mentioned the free agent route before and i've more than once mentioned both Bruess and Pinner so we're not in disagreement there. But in reality, it should be even easier to find a 4th line enforcer than it should be to find guys like Bruess and Pinner, both of whom have that Steve Ott-ish quality to them.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Dude, if they can channel their inner-Steve Ott I'll be a very happy camper.

Posted by: Steve_R | July 30, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Dont ask where it came from, but it just came to me...

What if GMGM just goes out and hires Ivan Drago's trainer to bulk up Semin (then we will have a gritty/powerful sniper)...and then put Anderson Silva on the payroll and make the entire Caps roster spend one day a week with him for "fitness" workouts?

I know, I know, brilliant right?

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | July 30, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Blake Wheeler just got awarded 2.2 million in arbitration.

Makes me wonder about Flash...

Who would you rather have on the wing?

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 30, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

both those players have similar builds, similar personalities to Ott. The only question is, will the Caps allow a guy like Pinner to play the same kind of game he has played in Hershey, which involves taking his share of minor penalties. Ott was allowed to do that in Dallas and now he's evolved into a player who picks his spots better than he did as a younger kid. Same with Brenden Morrow.

You have to allow young kids who play an aggressive style to take a few penalties otherwise you really negate that part of their game. Once they establish their NHL style, they actually get away with a lot more because the refs get conditioned to seeing them play a certain way. So if an Ott hits someone a little high with his elbow, the ref may give him a free pass vs someone like Flash doing the same thing.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

SAOTI,

Drago's trainer pushes roids.

But Silva though, he could refine the bongo style that Semin uses.

Posted by: Steve_R | July 30, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

they use MMA training now for offensive and defensive linemen to teach them quick strikes so they gain leverage off the snap.

I'm sure some hockey players use martial arts training as part of their overall regimen. The Caps actually brought in a boxing coach once to teach their younger players how to defend themselves in a fight.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

McPhee stated why he went for King and simply said some kind words about SDR. Does anyone really think he would trash SDR publicly. Additionally, if McPhee and the Caps feel SDR will never touch NHL ice, they would never say so. Why trash SDR and burn a trading bridge with St. Louis?

Posted by: fanohock1 | July 30, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Actually, I'd rather use draft picks on high-talent finesse snipers and pick up grinders/grit through free agency and trades.

Posted by: Skullduggery65 | July 30, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I can't remember if it was last year or the prior. Was watching a Dallas game and he made the other team so nuts that he had three guys beating the crap out of him. Ott couldn't punch back because of a busted up hand, so he's flailing around like Avery imitating Talbot. Made me laugh.

Wish we had Ott, he's very good at what he does.

Posted by: Steve_R | July 30, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

First of all, you dont know those were roids. It could have been good ole fashioned russian moonshine vodka.

Secondly, they never caught on that he was allegedly roided up. Rocky just beat him in spite of it all. So his trainer is good about not getting caught. :)

Thirdly, if would just be bada$$ if one of our rooskies skated up to somebody and said "I will break you"...then BAM...Silva knee to the face.

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | July 30, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry, when did a 3rd line agitator suddenly become of marginal value?

Posted by: cstanton1

Did I miss something? When did SDR become this on the AHL level, much less the NHL level?

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't say that an enforcer breaking his hand is "freak", I would say its an occupational hazard. Its like saying a goalie getting hit with a puck in a place where there was no padding was "freak".

I missed the post yesterday about Tarik leaving. I am saddened. I would make fun of your desire to go cover NASCAR or even worse, "Big" East basketball, but since I'm also a curling and golf fan, I think I'll just let this opportunity for snark to pass. Enjoy the new beat(s).

Posted by: oldtimehockey | July 30, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

cstanton1 - Go have a beer dude. You're too high strung. My god we traded a 7th round pick, lets not get too worked up here.

And if you want to see a history of drafting goon-esque player, I think Joe Finley in Hersey drafted in 2005 took on someones mascot for crying out loud. But why draft a fighter when they are dime-a-dozen? You draft skill players. Yes, I agree that tough guys have a place on every roster, but with salaries that are close to the minimum which it looks like King will get. we gave Brash about a $1 mill per season and he was way overpaid.

Posted by: jimc93 | July 30, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I forgot to add that the "players who can fight" model doesn't work so well on the fight part. Bradley is willing, but he isn't really able. I admire the guy for taking on all comers, but when you end up bleeding half the time, you aren't necessarily helping.

Posted by: oldtimehockey | July 30, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

2005... The year of the lost draft.

Posted by: Steve_R | July 30, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Parted ways and not re-signing a player after their entry level deal is over and saying the same thing about a traded player is two different worlds. Trash SDR at all and you make St. Louis look like a fool. Both teams got what they wanted.

Posted by: fanohock1 | July 30, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Open question to all:

Does anybody know who holds the NHL mark for most fighting majors (Career and Single-Season)?

If possible please also provide 1) among active players and 2) all-time.

Thanks,
Das Rhino

Posted by: Rhino40 | July 30, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

So what's the over/under on a real life fight/donnybrook between sgm and cstanton? LOL

anyone? bueller?

Posted by: FrankM73 | July 30, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

My money is on cstanton.

He will imagine that sgm is really GMGM, reflect back to when GMGM took his lunch money (like he does before every furious post)...

AND BEAT THE SNOT OUT OF HIM!!!

...then have 2 beers and pass out.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 30, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

haha. That was good.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

how anyone can get this worked up over trading a 7th round minor league player for a fighter is beyond me. Cstanton - lighten up for a while. Enjoy life. As Ted would say... be happy, I know you can do it.

Posted by: capsfansince74 | July 30, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

McPhee stated why he went for King and simply said some kind words about SDR. Does anyone really think he would trash SDR publicly. Additionally, if McPhee and the Caps feel SDR will never touch NHL ice, they would never say so. Why trash SDR and burn a trading bridge with St. Louis?
---------------------

the point simply is, why assume that SDR has fallen from grace in any way? Why not assume he's still a good prospect and McPhee had to deal away quality to fill a pressing need?

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

" But why draft a fighter when they are dime-a-dozen"

I'm talking about drafting 3rd and 4th line role players , some of whom can also fight, and drafting those guys in the mid and later rounds. What about this is so hard to grasp?

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry, when did a 3rd line agitator suddenly become of marginal value?

Posted by: cstanton1

Did I miss something? When did SDR become this on the AHL level, much less the NHL level?

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, I guess I'll verbally lash you when he actually does become one.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

Normally I agree with you, but in this case, I do not. After looking at SDR at a few rookie camps, OHL, WJC, and Hershey, they must have really believed that he was not going to be an NHLer. I would have to give GM the benefit of the doubt on this one. Bottom line, SDR is an AHLer at best, so really, this move just hurts Hershey, not the Caps.

We needed an enforcer last year, and after Talbot's comments, it needed to be addressed asap. I give McPhee credit for that.

Still, we need more. Flash, Semin, or both need to be moved.

Posted by: underpants2 | July 30, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

First, sorry to see TEB go. Will miss his coverage. Second, this blog isn't bad when you scroll past cstanton. But it is alot shorter. lol

Posted by: nimrodrsp | July 30, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Here is how it would go down in an on ice scenario, at practice.

The puck drops, Cstanton1 wins the draw and dumps it into the zone. Sgm3 is the first one to the puck. Cstanton1 hot on his tail and their bodies collide along the side boards. Cstanton1 ties up sgm3 by holding him against the boards, gives him a little face wash, and the puck squirts free. Cstanton1 releases him and begins to skate away, but sgm3 didn’t like the smell of the glove so he gives Cstanton1 a little stick whack to the thigh reminder to not do it again.

The puck goes in deep in the other zone. Sgm3 skates in and gets the puck again. Cstanton1 lines him up and skates at him to board him….then out of nowhere KAPOW….RJ King decks Cstanton1. Rj leans of Cstanton1 and says, “hmm, shoulder seems to have held up just fine”. Then gives him a little donkey punch to the kidneys and says “hand too…odd”.

Shultz tries to skate up to protect Cstanton1, but catches an edge and falls.

Semin sees Cstanton1 out cold and decides to be 3rd man in, and do a little bongo practice.

Ovie skates full speed and ices sgm3, baby gionta style. Just to cool him down a bit.

Green is nowhere to be found…then again, it is playoffs.

Bradley laughs from the bench at the whole debacle; while trainers try to stop his facial bleeding that seems to have appeared out of nowhere.

While still out cold, Tyler Sloan hops over the glass, runs over to Cstanton1 and takes his wallet, then goes back to the stands. Opens the wallet, splits the money with Erskine. Hey, a guy has to get paid right?

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | July 30, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

how anyone can get this worked up over trading a 7th round minor league player
-----------------------------------------

forget the round please. As has been stated in nauseating detail, some mid to late round players have turned into very good nhlers.

With regards to him being a "minor leaguer", of course he is. The kid's only 20 and got drafted 2 yrs ago. He's not expected to be anywhere higher than the minor league level at this point. People, if you're gonna try and pick an argument apart, please do it with some basis in logic. This constant harping on SDR being a 7th rounder or the fact he isn't challenging for conn smythe yet is rooted in some very simplistic thinking. You've been infected with the dreaded sgm virus.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Really, some of you should ignore cstanton's sometimes attitude for a minute and read what it is he is writing. Basically he says that it isn't just a handful of your 50 NHL contract players that give you grit and toughness, but having it up and down the organization, even in skill players, guys like Rick Tocchet he mentioned recently.

By God none of us want to go back to the Lunch Pail Caps, but don't we need a bit of Dale Hunter on our roster?

Geez, if we could trade any of our non-NHL ready players (incl MaJo) or through FA if we could get a Hunter for #2C and a Mark Tinordi for #1D...we'd be A number 1 Cup favorite.

His point, he's made it a million times, is you don't draft three Bouchards every year. You draft one Bouchard, a guy like Ted Ruth and a guy who might be Matt Bradley.

Because, you see, you need all three types to win.

As I've posted a million times, you can't win in MLB with nine shortstops on the field. And, in the army, you can't win with all snipers and one tank (Ovi).

There, I said it nicely, no insults, I'm not disparaging the King deal (I like it), can some of you say, "OK, maybe there is a point there."

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 30, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

After looking at SDR at a few rookie camps, OHL, WJC, and Hershey, they must have really believed that he was not going to be an NHLer. I would have to give GM the benefit of the doubt on this one. Bottom line, SDR is an AHLer at best, so really, this move just hurts Hershey, not the Caps.
-----------------------------

the only part of that i can agree with is that it has an impact on Hershey. But point me to information that states SDR's development has been a disappointment? Where is this coming from? Just because we trade a prospect away it doesn't mean we're doing it because we think he sucks or is a career minor-leaguer, does it? In many cases teams don't dislike the player they're dealing away, they're doing it out of need and what another team wants. When Columbus asked us for Ted Ruth, we dealt him for Fedorov. That didn't mean Ruth had fallen out of favor. Columbus wanted a tough rugged defensive dman prospect and thats what McPhee gave them to make the deal happen.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

well i don't know who the heck rj king is but hopefully he's got a better health history than does DJ. Aside from that i got a little chuckle. But you did imply Tyler Sloan was a thief.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

bah typos...shame on me. Oh well, live to type another day.

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | July 30, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Great write-up. Loving McPhee's comments. King is one of my favorite players in the game today, and I am incredibly happy he is a Cap now. It was painful watching Caps get clobbered last year; now we have some firepower to battle the beefed up EC.

TEB, since I can't find your email address, would you mind sliding over to my blog and critiquing it?

http://theinconsideratecontrarian.blogspot.com/

Thanks!

Posted by: timKosecki | July 30, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

For the record, at 700k a year, he is robbing the Caps blind. IMO.

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | July 30, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

@SeminAllOverTheIce

That was good.

TominX could probably use the break as blog comedian.

Keep it coming!

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 30, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

the only part of that i can agree with is that it has an impact on Hershey. But point me to information that states SDR's development has been a disappointment? Where is this coming from? Just because we trade a prospect away it doesn't mean we're doing it because we think he sucks or is a career minor-leaguer, does it? In many cases teams don't dislike the player they're dealing away, they're doing it out of need and what another team wants. When Columbus asked us for Ted Ruth, we dealt him for Fedorov. That didn't mean Ruth had fallen out of favor. Columbus wanted a tough rugged defensive dman prospect and thats what McPhee gave them to make the deal happen.

Posted by: cstanton1

I don't have any information to support this. This is just my gut. I am just happy, in this case at least, we seem the be playing for now.

I normally think McPhee is a putz. In no way has he put this team in a position to win a cup this offseason. This move does not help that. But we did need someone to kick ass every once in a while.

That being said, where is my center and dman?

Posted by: underpants2 | July 30, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

right tom.

balance. Those saying we should only draft snipers and find the other guys via FA or trades, thats nutty. Who does that? Even fantasy hockey doesn't work that way.

There is a clear philosophical discrepancy between how the Caps draft and how many other (successful) teams draft. I've already pointed out that the latest team du jour - the Hawks - have focused on size and grit with a lesser emphasis on talent over the past 6-7 yrs in the first 3 rounds. They're outdrafting us in that regard 3 or 4 to 1. As a basic philosophy, you shouldn't just restrict yourself to going after highly skilled players and ignore other attributes, even in the top rounds. But definitely use those middle rounds to find quality role players who can fill out your 3rd and 4th lines and your 3rd defensive pairing. Not kids like Caleb freakin Herbert Humperdinck.

and ftr, I think its very plausible that SDR could at least turn into an Arron Asham type. A kid who starts off being an energy player on the 4th line then gradually moves up, scores timely goals, is a leader, does the dirty work etc. You can't just discount him because we traded him away or that he got drafted late. The upside is maybe he turns into a Darcy Tucker type.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

For the record, at 700k a year, he is robbing the Caps blind. IMO.

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | July 30, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

now that was funny.

However, I haven't given up on Tyler. Because I liked the way he played in limited time v Montreal. And I think Bruce gives him one more real shot this yr because he is one of the coach's favorites. But Sloan has to step up his game. How he goes from laying out Langkow in his first NHL game and then not come close to making that type of timely open-ice hit ever again is beyond me. Maybe he's one of the guys who may benefit from having a King in the lineup - Sloan wants to play aggressively, he just needs some confidence.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

@tominsocal1

It is true in building an NHL team it is ideal to have it well rounded that can play any time of game and all aspects of the game well.

However, in drafting a player isn't it more important to take whoever is more "valuable"? If a Bouchard type has more value than wouldn't it be wiser to take more of those guys and then trade one or two for the less valued grit guys.

For example. Lets just say a Bouchard type is valued as a 6 and a Ruth type in that same draft position is valued as a 4. When trades are made and you trade a 6 you will receive a 4 in return plus a remaining 2(maybe a late draft pick or something).

It is sort of like the Jimmy Johnson way of drafting and assigning a point value to each pick, but doing this with players.

The goal after the draft is to have the highest point value you can get. You do not worry about positions at that point because they are years away from the NHL and many trades/free agent signings can be made. The greater the value of the player you draft the greater a return you get in a trade.

So if you have a Bouchard type who is a 6, then you can exchange him for a grit guy who has a value of a 6 in the NHL instead of a lesser grit guy who has the value of a 4.

It's all about asset value.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

well there you go, nothing wrong with SDR. He was on pace for his development - about 2 yrs away from challenging for a spot.

---------------------------------------

This is the classic example of someone complaining just to complain. You are complaining that we didn't develop a commodity that it cost us basically zilch to acquire. In a couple of years SDR may (or may not) develop into a player similar to D.J. King. So complain all you want about not having drafted enough of these guys over the years but then think about the fact that it cost us next to nothing to get one. Heck if we had traded one of our minor league snipers we probably could have gotten two of them.

Posted by: ouvan59 | July 30, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Heck if we had traded one of our minor league snipers we probably could have gotten two of them.
---------------------

sez who ? What makes you think other teams want our skilled prospects in the minors? So far, the 3 prospects we've had to deal away are all physical players - Ruth, Osala, SDR.
Unless you're implying that those 3 teams actually wanted our "snipers" but McPhee skillfully maneuvered them towards our more grinding types.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Maybe because the Caps are holding on to their snipers? A natural goal scorer is hard to develop, and using Chicago as a prime example, it is hard to hold on to talent once they are exposed in the NHL level. Provided the Caps make a run, there will be players leaving, whether it be Fehr, Fleischmann, Schultz, whoever. They need guys ready to step into their spots, even if they aren't game breakers. That's why guys like Gordon are toiling in the minors, even though they would garner quite a bit in the trade market.

Posted by: timKosecki | July 30, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

sgm-However, in drafting a player isn't it more important to take whoever is more "valuable"? If a Bouchard type has more value than wouldn't it be wiser to take more of those guys and then trade one or two for the less valued grit guys.
-----------------------

lmao, jesus. You give me golden opportunity upon golden opportunity to rip your arguments to shreds. Your thesis as I understand it is, you go for the Bouchard types because those types have the most talent, which equals the most "value"

If what you just stated was actually true, then why not draft for "talent" as the dominant criteria IN EVERY SINGLE ROUND?? Name me one team, including the Caps, who always select a prospect using skill as the dominant criteria. Go ahead. Name me just one team who does this. I mean, using your logic a team should always go for the more skilled player because since that attribute is the hardest to come by, that should be your dominant criteria.

So why is it NO team does that? Acc to you, they should be able to then trade away all that excess skill for "less valued gritty players" all day long, right?

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

"Maybe because the Caps are holding on to their snipers? A natural goal scorer is hard to develop"

so you're saying that Carolina for ex, really wanted Bouchard or Perrault or Bourque or Aucoin, but had to settle for Osala? Or that Columbus really wanted maybe an offensively skilled dman but settled for a rugged defensive Ted Ruth type?

convenient assumptions.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

sgm: I have posted this before:

In the first couple of rounds, you draft for skill. After that, you draft based on heart and desire.

The problem say with picking "snipers" round after round is that once a sniper has less than a certain amount of sniping skill, he's useless.

Example #1 for the defense: Flash. Very skilled, but most everyone here wants him gone cuz he's "just not quite good enough." He has one skill, but at best he's the fifth best offensive winger on this team (Ovi, Knuble, Semin, Laich). Flash was a #2 pick. He has skill. He can be #2 LW on many teams and #1LW on some. But, for someone very limited with all other skills, if they don't have Flash offensive skills or better, why reach for that pick.

Let's measure skill 1-100. Ovi is 100. Semin 95. Knuble 85-90. Laich 80-85. Fehr 75 (now) 85 (future). Flash 75 now 80 topside. 80 is the least you can be for #1 or 2 line in NHL.

Now, rather than pick a 75 talent sniper, pick a guy 3rd round like Bradley with say 65 scoring skill but 85 grit skill and a 95 heart. The Bradley Fighting Vehicle!

Rather than Flash on the second round you are much better to get someone a little less offense but has way more in other skills and in desire.

I am trying to say this in a nice way, not trying to hurt any feelings since, hey, maybe I'm wrong anyway.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 30, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

"so you're saying that Carolina for ex, really wanted Bouchard or Perrault or Bourque or Aucoin, but had to settle for Osala? Or that Columbus really wanted maybe an offensively skilled dman but settled for
a rugged defensive Ted Ruth type?"

If Carolina wanted Bourque they would have gotten him on waivers. They did not want Aucoin, and presumably not Bouchard or Perreault because of the same reason (size). That's not to say that they were not available, but I think it is safe to say that the Caps would rather hold on to guys they plan on having compete for the 2nd line center position this year.

And Columbus admittedly needs physical defensemen.

Posted by: timKosecki | July 30, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

sgm: Here's an example.

If I knew absolutely nothing else about the team I was assembling, except that I wanted to win the Stanley Cup, and this was my first pick in a series of picks, and for my first pick I got to choose Matt Bradley or Flash, I'd hemm and haw and probably, in the end, take Bradley. Maybe not, but it's a much tougher choice than the simple difference in skill level, for Flash has way more skill.

Who has more skill, Flash or Clutterbuck? Who would you pick?

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 30, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

to add to what tom just said,

sgm, what you just postulated as preferred draft theory, is preposterous.

If you keep opting to draft Flash types in every round over less skilled players who bring a lot of other attributes then what you'd end up with are players who either HAVE to crack the top 6 on your team or are useless since they'll probably lack the other attributes necessary to play on the bottom 2 lines. That's the problem with guys like Flash - if they're not scoring, they're useless. Whereas a quality checking line player can sometimes develop into a 2nd or even a 1st line player. They're more versatile, they don't have to score to be valuable to their teams because they bring so many other intangibles to the table.

You balance your need to find a few topnotch skill guys with the need to find quality role players. Because those are the horses you end up riding all the way to the Cup. Where would the Hawks have been without Bfug, Bolland, Ladd? You replace those guys with Belanger, Chimera and Gordo and you're looking at a 1st round playoff loss.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Tom, you also pick based on potential upside.

Posted by: Steve_R | July 30, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for all the hard work, Tarik. I hope your future endeavors go well.

I do have one last request of you. Is there any chance you can take cstanton with you?

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | July 30, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

And Columbus admittedly needs physical defensemen.

Posted by: timKosecki | July 30, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

thats correct. They identified a need and asked for Ted Ruth and the Caps granted that request. So our skill guys in the minors don't have this hyped up trade value that some Caps fans want to believe they do.
---------------------------------------

Who has more skill, Flash or Clutterbuck? Who would you pick?

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 30, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Would Semin have been a better fit for the Hawks than a burly dman-converted-fwd like Buffy? Would Mike Green have been better for the Flyers than Pronger?

skill is vastly an overrated component. You need it, but not in such abundance that it weakens other equally important parts of your team.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

1993 expansion draft - go look at the players that Florida and Anaheim selected. Most of the players were grinders - but Fl chose the more quality grinders - Mellanby, Skrudland, Lindsay, Lowry, Fitzgerald, Laus, Cirella. There were skilled forwards made available by every nhl team for Ana and Fla to pick from. Yet these 2 new expansion teams chose character, leadership, toughness, defensive play over almost every other attribute.

i know, really puzzling !

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Who thinks that even if we win the Cup next season cstanton1 will still still B**ch and moan about how bad GMGM is and that the Caps suck?

Posted by: capscoach | July 30, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I do have one last request of you. Is there any chance you can take cstanton with you?
-------

i can't go. Too much work still to do here. SGM is my pet project. Once he gets it, or at least lies to me and acts like he gets it, only then will I feel comfortable moving on. You don't abandon a special-needs child. Thats not how I roll.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

"sez who ? What makes you think other teams want our skilled prospects in the minors? So far, the 3 prospects we've had to deal away are all physical players - Ruth, Osala, SDR.
Unless you're implying that those 3 teams actually wanted our "snipers" but McPhee skillfully maneuvered them towards our more grinding types.

--------------------------------------

LOL, you kill me. You can spin any situation into a bash GMGM session.

You puff your chest out and state with confidence that the Blackhawks have outdrafted us the last 6 or 7 years by draft grit and physical players the first three rounds but anybody can do a little homework and tell that you are complete full of it. Of the last 7 drafts only 4 players that have been picked in the first three rounds by the Blackhawks have played more than 100 NHL games.

Jonathan Toews
Patrick Kane
Dave Bolland
Cam Barker (Minnesota Wild)

The only really physical player that had made an impact in the NHL for them wasn't even on the team last year.

As for what other teams did or didn't want neither of us has any idea what transpired behind closed doors. I can tell you one thing a good sniper will fetch a heck of a lot more in trade than a good goon.

Posted by: ouvan59 | July 30, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

cstanton: You'd get more converts if you learned to step on their shoes without messing up their shine.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 30, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

I may have missed it, or possibly misinterpreted it, but where exactly did sgm3 say that you draft only the most skilled?

What I saw him say was you value/assess all the players and then no matter what position they are, you take the highest valued player with your pick. He never specified the criteria for the value system, with the exception of maybe saying “trade value”. Again, the term value you was never determined.

Coupled with what Tom said about how Ovie was 100, Semin a 95, etc…then with Bradley being a 65 skill-85grit-95 heart ….these would factor into his total value score lets say 82 (although most value systems might not be simply an average). Tom then also rated Flash a possible 80 (again assuming this was his compiled value). So using this value system if they were both in the draft and Flash was scored at an 80 and Bradley was scored an 82, you simply draft the 82…ergo Bradley is your man. Flash was the more “skilled” guy, but Bradley had the higher “value”. Make sense?

Again, I could have misread what smg3 was saying…but that is how I took it.

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | July 30, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Ouyvan, since you obviously can't decipher for yourself i'll just cut and paste the draftees from the first few rounds for the past several yrs for Chicago. I already did this once before but I'll do it again.

Olsen
Blunden
Delisle
Danis-Pepin
Aliu
Beach
Johns
TZ
Bickell

All of these guys were drafted in the first 3 rounds except for Zahn I think who got drafted in the 4th. Most of these guys not only have size, but have varying degrees of physicality/grit whathaveyou.


You chose to turn what I stated into something else btw - I never said anything about the physical young prospects they drafted in recent yrs being a part of their current Cup. I made the statement to illustrate draft philosophical differences between the Caps and Hawks.

If you go deeper, you'll see the kind of players they've drafted in later rounds too - the Brennan Turners, Greenops, Brouwers etc.


Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

You guys are making way too much on this trade on both sides. First, King will play SOME, not every day and not 10 minutes a game when he does play. He will be a less effective scorer than Bradley, but a better fighter. If someone gets hurt, he may get a little more time. Gordon is a good candidate to get hurt, so 4th line could be King-Stecks-Brads. This is a lot of nashing of teeth for a 4th line pickup.

As for the give, he is young. He might turn out to be the next shock, like a St. Louis. But he might bust. But, either way, there is no way to know whether he would still have been a stud or a bust if he had stayed with the Caps.

I say, "meh" on the whole thing. I like a good fight as much as the next guy, but I've seen a lot of "fighters" do incredibly stupid things that end up makingthe team short-handed for long periods, or just get completely worked by a more skilled player leading to scores, scoring chances or penalties by others to correct the situation. I have not seen enough King to really assess whether he truly is a good player who can fight, or just another goon. Either way, I'm not sure why we aer a getting worked up about this.

Posted by: oldtimehockey | July 30, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I may have missed it, or possibly misinterpreted it, but where exactly did sgm3 say that you draft only the most skilled?
---------------

he got involved in this debate with respect to the imbalance in the way the Caps draft. His defense for McPhee's drafting strategy came down to this statement:


However, in drafting a player isn't it more important to take whoever is more "valuable"? If a Bouchard type has more value than wouldn't it be wiser to take more of those guys and then trade one or two for the less valued grit guys.

-----------------------------------

now, why would he choose to use Bouchard as his example of a player having more "value" if he wasn't in fact implying that the skill attribute that Bouchard brings to the table has more intrinsic value than anything else? I mean, if all sgm is saying is that you draft the more "valuable' player, well thats a no-brainer. The issue at hand is, what constitutes that value. And does what constitue that value change from round to round.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm very happy for you. Let me know when those guys make any kind of impact.

Posted by: ouvan59 | July 30, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

SAOTI: Actually, your numerical rating system is what, I think, may teams do. They include psychological ratings too. With Flash I put "80" on skill, maybe he might becomes 85.

(Let's say average NHL player = 70)

Bradley gets 60-65 offensive skill. Defense might be 75. PK might be 75.

Flash though gets rreally low ratings, grit, heart, defense, PK below avg I think, and, especially, penalties taken vs penalties caused is very poor, worst on team someone posted (and Bradley's i think best).

Given all that, averaging it out, which player should get $1M and which player $2.6M.

Clearly, IMO, building a Cup winner, salary cap considered, Brads is a way better value.

So, I kinda agree with cstanton. I know it's sometimes hard to get past the way he spreads the butter, but it's a decent sandwich he makes.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | July 30, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

As for what other teams did or didn't want neither of us has any idea what transpired behind closed doors. I can tell you one thing a good sniper will fetch a heck of a lot more in trade than a good goon
----------------------------------

again, overly simplistic because there are too many variables at hand. The Winnipeg Jets for ex traded for Tie Domi and Kris King and gave up none other than Eddie Olczyk. So don't tell me that snipers are always more valuable than tough gritty guys. Mike Ridley got dealt for Momesso. There's probably 30 cases in the past 30 yrs of tough guys getting traded for skill players. So obviously each of the teams in that equation saw the value in making that deal. If you want to overly simplify it and say that a player like Backstrom would net more than a player like Boogaard, then of course thats an easy argument to make. But who would net more? Travis Moen or Tomas Fleischman? Remember, Moen was a resident goon in the AHL before the Ducks gave him a chance. Ditto with SThornton. So maybe at the time you (or McPhee) could easily proclaim that Flash was more valuable than a Moen. But now that Moen has proven himself to be more than a fighter, its not that easy to make that blanket statement even though Flash has a ton more pure skill.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

I'm very happy for you. Let me know when those guys make any kind of impact.

Posted by: ouvan59 | July 30, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

let me know when Kuznetsov, MaJo, Alzner, Perreault, Bouchard, Caleb, Carrier, and Kugrhshev make a real impact also. Oh wait, is it too early to judge them? oops.

and again,the scope of the discussion was to illustrate draft philosophy. If you want to dig deeper and have a discussion about players who have had time to make an impact but haven't yet, we can do that as well.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

So what's the over/under on a real life fight/donnybrook between sgm and cstanton? LOL

anyone? bueller?

Posted by: FrankM73 | July 30, 2010 1:12 PM |

@FrankM73:

Ovie turns in an aside to the camera before getting into his über-ride with a hawt Russian goddess:

"If you had access to a car like this, would you take it back right away?"

Posted by: Rhino40 | July 30, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

@tominsocal1

You are comfusing drafting and setting up a roster.

All I'm saying is draft whoever has more value.

If you draft a bunch of 6's that play similar positions(skill guys in this example) then you can trade one of them to another team for a player of a value 6 who plays a position you are lacking(grit in this example). Then you have a player who is a 6 at both positions(skill and grit).

If you reach in the draft then you end up with a 6 at the skill position and a 4 at the grit position and are then worse off.

On the otherhand if the choice is between a skill guy who is a 4 or a Cooke type who is a 6, you again choose the 6. Meaning you always select whoever has greate value at the time of selection.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

I may have missed it, or possibly misinterpreted it, but where exactly did sgm3 say that you draft only the most skilled?

What I saw him say was you value/assess all the players and then no matter what position they are, you take the highest valued player with your pick. He never specified the criteria for the value system, with the exception of maybe saying “trade value”. Again, the term value you was never determined.

Coupled with what Tom said about how Ovie was 100, Semin a 95, etc…then with Bradley being a 65 skill-85grit-95 heart ….these would factor into his total value score lets say 82 (although most value systems might not be simply an average). Tom then also rated Flash a possible 80 (again assuming this was his compiled value). So using this value system if they were both in the draft and Flash was scored at an 80 and Bradley was scored an 82, you simply draft the 82…ergo Bradley is your man. Flash was the more “skilled” guy, but Bradley had the higher “value”. Make sense?

Again, I could have misread what smg3 was saying…but that is how I took it.

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce

Yes, that was exactly my point. Thank you.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Why is it some posters here sound like they have Tourrette's Syndrome? They spout what is supposed to be "knowledge" but come off sounding like a tool because apparently, their momentary fits of intelligence only come at the expense of looking down their bulbous noses at other fans. By all means, we get it. No one else is fit to breathe the same air as you. Do us a favor and become a Penguins fan already. Sick b@$7@rd.

Posted by: LeftCoastCapsFan | July 30, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Who thinks that even if we win the Cup next season cstanton1 will still B**ch and moan about how bad GMGM is and that the Caps suck?

Posted by: capscoach | July 30, 2010 2:42 PM

I'll take that bet.

To his credit, cstanton1 does have a head full of facts, and is capable of solid hockey analysis.


That said, it is his tendency to belittle those who disagree with him that bugs me to no end (kind of like John McLaughlin's stentorian roar of "WRONG!" on Sunday mornings). But I digress...

I believe that he'll either talk about how the Cup should have been won in four games instead of seven, or that the victory was somehow flawed,

and if the ice wasn't tilted...
or the other team wasn't banged-up...
or the other team hadn't had even less grit than the Caps...
or name your excuse...
blah, blah, blah...

...then the Caps would not have won and/or somehow do not deserve the Cup.

I don't expect anything remotely resembling joy or celebration from cstanton1, as he seems to revel in misery.

He'll either find a reason to complain about something, or say nothing at all.

Mark my words.

Then again, being right is so very important to cstanton1 that he may even actually cut loose and celebrate with the rest of us when (not if) the Caps do win the Cup...

...just so that he can prove us wrong.

Posted by: Rhino40 | July 30, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

I'm a bit of a nerd but even I know telling people they're wrong and why is lame. Carry on though....*pushes mute button on a certain constant poster* Ahh, much better.

Posted by: LeftCoastCapsFan | July 30, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

On the otherhand if the choice is between a skill guy who is a 4 or a Cooke type who is a 6, you again choose the 6. Meaning you always select whoever has greate value at the time of selection.\
--------------------

well who the heck doesn't get that concept? You're basically saying to draft whoever you think has more value to your team. Duh. That's what teams do anyway. Thats not whats at issue here. What is at issue is, the Caps DON'T PLACE AS HIGH A VALUE ON CERTAIN TYPES AS OTHER TEAMS DO. So while one team may look at a Cooke type and grade that player as a 6, the Caps would grade him lower. And therefore probably not draft him.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I do not understand how this move can bother people this much. Reminds me of the uproar about Chris Bourque leaving town for a few weeks.
What bothers me about McPhee is he apparently still does not see the need to get a good rugged shutdown dman.
I do not think the caps lost to Montreal because they could not score (even on the PP) but because they are not capable (or at least not with any regularity) to win a game 1-0, which imo you need to be able to do in the playoffs.
GMGM has put a good team together and been pretty successful drafting IMO, with the now more than ever glaring lack of an above mentioned dman. But I still can't help love a GM that enters the opposing teams locker room and punches the opposing coach.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/45143888.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Sep+26%2C+1999&author=Jason+La+Canfora&pub=The+Washington+Post&edition=&startpage=D.01&desc=Caps+GM+McPhee+Trades+Punches+With+Blackhawks

Posted by: BorntoHula | July 30, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

That said, it is his tendency to belittle those who disagree with him that bugs me to no end -------------------

WROOONG! I only belittle those who have attacked me first and have done so in an unfair manner by either mischaracterizing what I've said (I think intentionally to help make their point carry more weight), or fans who simply sound like Leftcoast with their idiotic ramblings ("go find another team to root for") and offer nothing in the way of actual hockey talk.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

I don't expect anything remotely resembling joy or celebration from cstanton1, as he seems to revel in misery.---------

WROOONG! There was a game last season where I was reveling in how well our team played v the Pens. Specifically a trio of players who I thought really stepped up their game - Flash, Fehr, and someone else I can't currently remember.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

"What bothers me about McPhee is he apparently still does not see the need to get a good rugged shutdown dman. "

@Hula

But you're just a fan right? You're not in the Caps front office, you've never held a job as GM of an nhl team. So where do you get off 2ndguessing McPhee? If he doesn't see a need, there is no need. Comprehende?

no seriously, I nominate you as new GM. You're already making some sense to me and you have a strong direction. I don't see you wiffle-waffling on this a yr from now.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

If I recall correctly cstanton did agree to pipe down if we went to ECF, or was it the SCF?

One of the two.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 30, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

I didn't say to draft the player with most value to the team, as that changes year to year. I was saying to draft the player is known as more valuable league wide. So he would be a more valuable commodity. SAOTI explained it very well.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

I think I got a solution.

Draft becomes more like "Dancing with the Stars". I think thats the show...

GMGM gets to make his decisions and his vote counts for like 35%/40%. The remaining 60-65% comes from the viewing audience. Text the name of your pick to CapsPick (*$.99 a text fee will be charged, you may vote up to 10 times).

Not only will the fan base get a say, but they can then use that money to make ticket prices (or beer prices) cheaper or at least keep the mouse poop outta my hotdogs.

Thoughts?

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | July 30, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

@SAOTI

I think cstanton1 would find a way to get himself a majority of the vote and then we would end up with team full of Colton Orr's and Boogaard as he would be paying them $5M/yr.

So the Caps would never win, but they would also never lose a fight.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

"let me know when Kuznetsov, MaJo, Alzner, Perreault, Bouchard, Caleb, Carrier, and Kugrhshev make a real impact also. Oh wait, is it too early to judge them? oops.

and again,the scope of the discussion was to illustrate draft philosophy. If you want to dig deeper and have a discussion about players who have had time to make an impact but haven't yet, we can do that as well."

--------------------------------------

Yes, the scope of the discussion was draft philosophy and the fact that you said the Blackhawks have outdrafted us the last 7 years by drafting grit. Not one of the Blackhawks draft picks in the last 7 drafts that would be considered a physical player played any factor in their winning the Cup. Their snipers did however play a huge role.

So as it stands now your claim that the Blackhawks have outdrafted is complete conjecture on your part. And what's even more funny is that out of those 7 drafts the Caps have the most physical player to make it (Ovechkin) and another 2 that you are rueing the loss of (DSR & OO). Kind of flys in the face of the argument you are trying to make.

Posted by: ouvan59 | July 30, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Back to my original question:

Who holds the career and single-season NHL marks for most fighting majors, both a) among active players, and b) all-time?

I'm asking because I honestly do not know.

Anybody?

Posted by: Rhino40 | July 30, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

SeminAllOver, shouldn't Semin's agent change the English spelling of his name? I think someone here once posted that "Semin" is not actually the best translation, maybe Semyon or something like that is closer. Even a small change like that would help in jersey sales. No kid wants to wear a "Semin" jersey and hear constant crap from his friends.

Posted by: zmega | July 30, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

I didn't say to draft the player with most value to the team, as that changes year to year. I was saying to draft the player is known as more valuable league wide
---------------------------------

since teams differ on what they place an emphasis on, that would complicate things. But the Caps don't draft many role players that are considered valuable "league-wide" anyway. So if they started doing that, it would be a step in the right direction.

"I think cstanton1 would find a way to get himself a majority of the vote and then we would end up with team full of Colton Orr's and Boogaard as he would be paying them $5M/yr."

that's why you're such a good debater sgm. You never attempt to win a point via massive exaggeration.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

rhino, off the top of my head, and ignoring your vicious slanderous attacks on my good name earlier, im guessing Tiger Williams who has 380 fights to his name.I could be wrong. But thats who my first guess is.

and he wasn't even a good fighter.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Ya know, if sgm and cstanton just agreed to disagree and would ignore each other it would cut down the number of postings by a third. Just sayin.

Posted by: Steve_R | July 30, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

"since teams differ on what they place an emphasis on, that would complicate things."

That's why you pick the most valuable league wide rating(averaging value for all 30 teams) and then when you deal you trade that player to teams that have him rated higher than the average based on need.(and you acquire a similar type player)

""I think cstanton1 would find a way to get himself a majority of the vote and then we would end up with team full of Colton Orr's and Boogaard as he would be paying them $5M/yr."

that's why you're such a good debater sgm. You never attempt to win a point via massive exaggeration."

That was a joke cstanton. Not everything is a debate. It is okay to smile every once in a while.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

active player wise, good question. My first guess would be Chris Neil. I can't think of too many active NHL players who have more than 150 nhl fights. Hordichuk would maybe 2nd or 3rd. I don't know, I keep thinking I'm missing someone real obvious.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

It is okay to smile every once in a while.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

eff that


@rhino - i think laraques is the most active current nhler in fighting majors. Brashear I think is kinda retired or he'd be the #1 by far

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

How lucky are we to be Cap's fans for 2010/2011? Can't you just feel it? Thanks Ted.

Posted by: coastallp74 | July 30, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

@Steve_R

I agree to disagree with cstanton1 and will no longer comment on his posts as long as he does the same for mine.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

So as it stands now your claim that the Blackhawks have outdrafted is complete conjecture on your part.
---------------------

not really. I mean WROOONG!

if you want to talk about the complete draft, not just specific rounds, I'll take Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Bolland, Buffy, Brouwer, Burish, Bickell over who we currently have playing on our nhl team via McPhee's drafts. Then of course you have to throw in another factor - players a team has drafted that they've been able to turn into other players via trade. Hmm...getting Patrick Sharp for Matt Ellison? Pretty damn good return I'd say. Prolly better than gettin Corvo for Osala.

how bout trading for Colin Fraser using Zhamnov and a 4th and then using a player you get along with Fraser (vandermeer) to turn right around and acquire Ben Eager.

All in all, its pretty fair to say the Hawks have outdrafted and outtraded the Caps. Also better FA acquisitions.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

@Steve_R

I agree to disagree with cstanton1 and will no longer comment on his posts as long as he does the same for mine.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

i refuse to comment on this.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

I'm no lawyer, but if it's a true statement it can't be slander. I think it may be too late to save a good name.

Posted by: boomer44 | July 30, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Holy crap, it was that easy?

Posted by: Steve_R | July 30, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

"and ignoring your vicious slanderous attacks on my good name earlier"

Dude you have me over here dying laughing, at not just this comment, your actually funny today.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 30, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

cstanton,

But there are also the negatives to consider about Chicago. Can you say ungodly poor cap management? Forgetting to mail Q.O.'s on time. Carrottop's contract. I'll think of some more, give me a sec.

If you counter with that GM got fired, I'll have to ask you who drafted all those guys you pointed at.

Posted by: Steve_R | July 30, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

one man's dessert is another man's poison. Well like Costanza, I will be exiting on a high note. The blunt's a calling.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

@SteveR

I can forgive all of that for the type of team Chi has been over the past 3 yrs and the fact they got their fans a cup. I'm not asking for excellence in EVERY area. Just the critical ones. And I'm not saying cap mgmt is not critical. It is, but Dale Tallon did one heckuva job in putting together a nice blend of talent and toughness. And while they lacked a lotta teeth on that backline, a kid like Seabrook can make up for that to an extent. Their real strength is upfront. They've got the right type of role players and the fact they don't have a heavy doesn't bother me because they have enough team toughness that they don't get taken advantage of out there. Now I really have to get going. No more posts till Monday, i promise.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

So, then if our new "enforcer" were somehow to exceed those numbers, headline might read:

"Caps' D.J. King Scratches NHL Record"

Ba-dump-BUMP!

Posted by: Rhino40 | July 30, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

"But I still can't help love a GM that enters the opposing teams locker room and punches the opposing coach.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/45143888.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Sep+26%2C+1999&author=Jason+La+Canfora&pub=The+Washington+Post&edition=&startpage=D.01&desc=Caps+GM+McPhee+Trades+Punches+With+Blackhawks

Posted by: BorntoHula | July 30, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse "

This was cool, Hula!

Here's something I like about cstanton1: he didn't break bad on Mike Green like many other bloggers did. He also has a lot of hockey knowledge and insights. I just wish he wouldn't make jokes about people being "special needs" kids or be quite so disdainful of those who disagree with him.

Posted by: dccitizen1 | July 30, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

i can't go. Too much work still to do here. SGM is my pet project. Once he gets it, or at least lies to me and acts like he gets it, only then will I feel comfortable moving on. You don't abandon a special-needs child. Thats not how I roll.

Posted by: cstanton1 | July 30, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

No, it's OK. I understand. We wouldn't want you to leave before you're done insulting people without adding anything constructive to the board. I'm just hoping it doesn't take much longer for you to finish posting your ridiculous nonsense.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | July 30, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

@dccitizen1:

That's what I've been trying to say all along.

I have exhibited the same tendencies myself from time to time--a character flaw I have worked hard to eliminate, so I know whereof I speak:

Sure, we all get gratification when we are acknowledged by others to be correct, or as events unfold as we predict they will (a.k.a. the "I Told You So" Effect).

But for my part, I get a lot more pleasure out of seeing the Caps win than I do out of proving someone else wrong about them.

Just saying...

Posted by: Rhino40 | July 30, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

McPee's comments on King potential are total hot air, pure and simple. Caps couldn't wait for Della Rovere who actually has some skills and has accomlished quite a bit, versus a guy who has very few skills that have to be developed??? how long will that take?? please.....

Posted by: doughless | July 30, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Katie - please save us with a new post

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | July 30, 2010 5:35 PM | Report abuse

I totally agree, Rhino40!

Yes, a post from Katie would be great.

Even better, a puck that gets dropped in early October.

Posted by: dccitizen1 | July 30, 2010 6:10 PM | Report abuse

I don't post often and now I know why......good gravy. Not sure how hating the way the organization is run, hating the owner, GM and coach and disliking most of the players make someone a fan of that team. If you hate everything they do why do you continue to follow them? Go cheer for the pens.......please!!

Posted by: southeastdc | July 30, 2010 6:53 PM | Report abuse

The Caps lost to Montreal because their big scorers would not go to the net and be tough. King probably won't help that a bit. People like Semin, Ovechkin and Green have to play tougher hockey.

McPhee has the best record of any GM in the league; we need to see how these moves are going to work out. Hey George! Maybe you can get Theodore back for minimum money and a two-way contract. Play him in Hershey and trade him when some other team's goalie goes out with injury.

Posted by: theoldrot | July 30, 2010 7:02 PM | Report abuse

The Caps lost to Montreal because their big scorers would not go to the net and be tough. King probably won't help that a bit. People like Semin, Ovechkin and Green have to play tougher hockey.

Posted by: theoldrot | July 30, 2010 7:02 PM

i disagree - i think it is possible that if the other players feel like they are better protected than last year maybe, just maybe, they will be willing to play with a bit more of an edge. we know they are a little soft right now - so this just might help a little

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | July 30, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

@ theoldrot

what the heck have you been smoking? McPhee's team has YET to get outta 2nd round in the playoffs and he has the best record of any GM in the league?

for the record the team that went to the Finals in 98 was Poile's team even though he was no longer with the team.

Posted by: joek443 | July 30, 2010 7:17 PM | Report abuse

What do we think of Willie Mitchell as an addition to the Caps...I know he has the concussion history, but he could be a good mentor for Alzner and Carlson?

Posted by: capscoach | July 30, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

@capscoach. I have not seen too much of him to know exactally how good he is but I have seen several people talk about how he would be a good fit for our style of play and I am all for any player that keeps Sloan or Earskne from being every game players. I also wouldn't mind getting Sutton who is still out there.

Posted by: icehammer97 | July 30, 2010 9:28 PM | Report abuse

@capscoach

I think Mitchell would be a good acquisition and worth the risk to sign to a 1 year deal.

I saw that James Wisienewski was traded to the NYI for a conditional 3rd round pick. That wouldn't have been a bad idea either ($3.25M for 1 year too). However, with the Caps not having a 2nd rounder and their 3rd round pick being worth less than the Islanders(with the Caps expected to finish better) the Caps would have had to give up more.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse

For past 2 seasons Caps have needed at LEAST a couple of good tough sound veterans. Playoffs have proven it. Montreal had no respect for them, and was ready to seriously hurt Caps players that didn't surrender. It will be no different next year-with the same young good players not having veteran men to keep them confident. The ref won't help you--you help the ref respect your team.

Posted by: CTaylor42 | July 30, 2010 10:07 PM | Report abuse

What happens to Matt Bradley now?

Posted by: RedskinsXXVI | July 31, 2010 12:36 AM | Report abuse

@theoldrot
@Captkirk
You're both right.The Caps are not tough. They need a guy who can actually play to knock the snot out of guys like Talbot and Downie when they mouth off at Ovi.The wimp factor on this team is huge. These are some of the biggest guys I've ever seen play at a pro level who have zero gravel in thair guts: Poti, Steckel, Fehr, Chimera, etc. We need toughness immediately.

All the comments about King being injury prone are stupid. When was the last time a Cap (other than Brash) lost serious time due to breaking a knuckle on a guy like Barch's helmet. King kicked Barch's ass.
Can you imagine Steckel or Fehr, both towering at 6 foot 4, ever throwing a punch that would break a knuckle? This is just the beginning of what needs to be done to playoff toughen this team. Trade Flush as soon as we can. Put Laich at #2 center. He'll at least play tough in front of the net in the playoffs. Get rid of the passengers !!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | July 31, 2010 12:38 AM | Report abuse

@cstanton1
You're right about the Hawks out drafting us. That's why they won the Cup. They've drafted much better PLAY OFF capable players than GMGM.

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | July 31, 2010 1:08 AM | Report abuse

I think willie mitchell is a perfect fit provided his melon is fully healed. He probably will come cheap. I say sign him, trade erskine and then sign whatever center @csatanton1 wants. ;)

Posted by: jimc93 | July 31, 2010 7:59 AM | Report abuse

NYI buying out Witt. GMGM please waive Sloan or Erskine and sign him a our 7th D. Another upgrade in mean same game as Erskine with much more effect in the crease.

Posted by: t-bone67 | July 31, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Well a lot of blood has been spilt over the Delly for King trade. Rather than delving into McPhees drafting philosophy, shouldn't we be judging the trade om whether it makes the team better for this season.

Delly was hoping to make the Hershey roster this year. He can't help the Caps this season. Moreover a similar player is still in the system Trevor Breuss, also Hershey, so the cupboard isn't bare.

The Caps have four maybe five youngsters making the roster this season. I personally am meh about this trade and I liked Delly's agitator abilities. But it seems to me that this trade is more about filling a current need now to protect the youngsters. The team didn't have time to wait for Delly. Trades are also part of roster building and you have to give up something to get something. Trades always hurt that way.

I'm more interested in this upcoming window than the one two or three years down the road. And King legitimately a heavyweight. Whether he can be more than that remains to be seen. But at least our youngsters will have fewer runs at them made.

Posted by: Capsyoungguns | July 31, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Erskine 1.25 cap hit waive him or trade him to the NYI for Witt 1.5 reentry cap hit. the Erskine can join Juice on the Island.

Posted by: t-bone67 | July 31, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

And Tarik I am really going to miss you. You are such a part of Caps hockey and CI has been (and will remain) an important source for my love of and need for information about the Caps. Good for you though in finding balance in your life. The travel was brutal I am sure and now you can be at home more. Congratulations on the success of Capitals Insider, your brainchild. It has really grown just like the Caps.

Posted by: Capsyoungguns | July 31, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

From what I have read of Mitchell he would be a great addition primarily as a mentor to our young defensmen. I'd love him. But I don't know if he's ready to sign yet. From what I recall reading he just started training on a bike this month as his symptoms have just abated.

Posted by: Capsyoungguns | July 31, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Alright cstanton1, now you've really pissed me off, here's why:

It is okay to smile every once in a while.

Posted by: sgm3 | July 30, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

eff that

Posted by: cstanton1

Just kidding, the only who's pissed off is my formerly-sound- asleep g/f whom I just woke up by laughing out loud.

Posted by: govtimbo | July 31, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Let's get Witt. He's got heart and grit. He played well 10 years ago when we went to the finals. He can still play. The Isles are lost. This is a strong, tough man. (Which we're lacking on this team. )

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | July 31, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

What do we think of Willie Mitchell as an addition to the Caps...I know he has the concussion history, but he could be a good mentor for Alzner and Carlson?

Posted by: capscoach | July 30, 2010 7:59 PM
--------------

My overriding concern with WM is what unit he would play on. Foot-speed is and [I think always will be] a huge issue; top NHL forwards turn him fairly easily, and that was before the head injury. Now, if he's paired with an agile, smart, mobile d-man [Sammi Salo] he can be very effective. All reports indicate his teammates love him, always a good sign.

I think Orlov in a year or two would be a terrific pairing, right now I'd only see Carlson or perhaps MG as a good fit. But JC and Poti played such great hockey together in the playoffs - IMO our clear-cut best pairing [and not just me but Engblom and K Jones, guys who know a thing or two about good defensive hockey] that I'd have to think BB at least starts them out together. I know Alzner and JC played extremely well in Hershey together, but it is still a huge jump to the show. Green might be a good fit with a guy like WM but they seem intent on pairing him with JS.

As much potential as Alzner has, I still don't see WM as a great fit for him - simply not mobile enough to compensate for WM's lack of mobility to consistently go against top-6ers, IMO.

Posted by: govtimbo | July 31, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

The team didn't have time to wait for Delly. Trades are also part of roster building and you have to give up something to get something. Trades always hurt that way.

I'm more interested in this upcoming window than the one two or three years down the road. And King legitimately a heavyweight. Whether he can be more than that remains to be seen. But at least our youngsters will have fewer runs at them made.
------------

Totally agreed. I am cautiously optimistic about what this addition does for guys like Semin and Flash [not to mention keeping Ov out of fights he doesn't need to get into]; don't know a ton about King but his teammates sure seem to like him, a great sign.

I also agree about SDR, I don't buy that 'the org' was necessarily down on him, he looked pretty good to me at camp, it's just like you said you can't get something for nothing.

Posted by: govtimbo | July 31, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Cstanton1 is like Fox News to McPhee's Obama. Nothing McPhee ever does pleases cstanton1. Even when he does what he wanted him to do. Yawn.

Posted by: ranndino | July 31, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully King will serve as a reason for Ovechkin to calm down and play hockey. Reflecting on last season, I feel like Ovie took his captaincy to mean being the physically punishing player the team didn't really have. King will hopefully keep whatever guys the other team has at bay while Ovie bears down and scores goals.

Also, hi everybody! It's good to know nothing has changed - I'm looking at you cstanton1 ;)

Posted by: Raber | July 31, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

@Raber & ranndino,

Glad to see you guys back here.

While I'm not a big fan of enforcers overall, it sometimes seemed to me that Ovi was our de facto enforcer last year.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | July 31, 2010 6:56 PM | Report abuse

What fun is it having a fighter who can actually play? When you have a pure fighter w/ no skills, you know that when he gets out on the ice his mission is clear.

Posted by: randysbailin | July 31, 2010 7:12 PM | Report abuse

How did the Sharks get former 30 goal scorer Devin Setoguchi to sign for 1.8 mil?

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | July 31, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

@govtimbo If MG/JS and TP/JC are two pairs then the KA/WM would be our third pair and BB would be trying to keep them away from other teams top two lines. I know this is not always possible but it would help make WM a better idea for the Caps.

@WTF I think that part of their way of doing that has to do with the fact he had a down year last year and with a one year deal he has the chance to prove himself and get his money next year. Also the Sharks have the memory of Jonathan Cheechoo to show why one good year should not make the value of a contract. If he comes back and has another 30 goal season this year his $$ will go up next year.

Posted by: icehammer97 | August 1, 2010 12:24 AM | Report abuse

I've gotten to the point where I literally cringe every time I hear McPhee making references or comparisons to Detroit.

There are so many things wrong with that and it makes him come off as an incompetent GM.

We are the Washington freakin Capitals, not the Detroit freakin Red Wings.

He needs to stop thinking backwards and become a forward thinker. Look at your own freakin team and the present, evolving state of the competition and make your decisions based on those things. Stop trying to freakin over-emulate past models and create your own with your own unique set of players and needs.

That is, if you have any freakin confidence in your own abilities. If you have any vision of your own based on what you think it takes to win in 2010 and beyond.

Detroit, Detroit, Detroit... we're not freakin Detroit.

Wake up, Leonsis... you have a chance to do something special here. Get a GM with vision and confidence if McPhee can't be that guy.

Posted by: tmac2yao | August 1, 2010 3:17 AM | Report abuse


@ tmac2yao

You couldn't have said it better. We don't have a guy like Lindstrom back there at the blue. GMGM is nuts.

@cstanton1

All of these guys will be thinking of you next spring when we exit early again. Someone else's goaltender will "come up large" again on the Caps. (Tugnut, Hrudy, Halak, etc. All Hall of Famers when they play the Caps)

Posted by: Hunterforcoach | August 1, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

@icehammer - I do think those pairings would be effective if the Caps acquired WM; I think playing with a guy like Mitchell would give Alzner worlds of confidence. And the Poti-Carlson pairing worked very well in the playoffs, when it counted most. I'm still not convinced that JS is the ideal fit for Green, but we shall see.

While it is true there's no Lidstrom on the blue line right now, I will just note that I've never heard Dale Hunter speak as highly of a young player as he did of John Carlson, pretty high praise considering the source. Obviously not saying he's there yet or even close yet, but JC seems to play his best in big games, a very good sign. And it took Lidstrom a few years to develop into who he eventually became; people back in Sweden literally thought DET had 'wasted' a third-round pick on this lanky kid who was not overly physically impressive, by any means.

Posted by: govtimbo | August 1, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Cannot believe Tarik is leaving the beat, he's been one of the best beat writers, bloggers for NHL teams, and to hvae him replaced by a PENS FAN of all people... anyone but a PENS FAN for crying out loud, how sad is that!!

Even I feel bad for you Caps fans.

Posted by: BigGameSid | August 1, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

I didn't know you had to grow up here and be a fan of the Caps in order to cover this team... were Bob Fachet and Dave Fay fans of this team before they covered them for 30 years??

Posted by: joek443 | August 1, 2010 6:08 PM | Report abuse

that's one of the most stupid and idiotic things I've ever heard on here... they're journalists, they're not supposed to be fans of anybody.

and I couldn't care less where they grew up as long as they do their job... as a matter of fact, I want them to be outsiders, maybe that way they would ask toughter questions.

Posted by: joek443 | August 1, 2010 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Good point Joe, I agree.

Posted by: govtimbo | August 1, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

Capgeek says we have $5.3m left, and two players to left sign.


How much cap room do we need going to the deadline? Anything more than $1.5 is a waste.

That means we have $3.8m for 3 guys. At this point, I think you can get Mitchell for $2m. $1.8m to a guy is a good salary as well.

Still time to make this work.


Posted by: underpants2 | August 1, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Cstanton - you're too much bro. Are you and Joke brothers? Lovers? I'll tell you like I told him, why don't you at least say something nice to your dog. It might make you feel better. It's so easy to "out think the Caps brain trust"? Could you possibly be any more full of yourself? What do you do BTW other than spend all day and night on this board critisizing everything the Caps do or don't do? I gotta tell ya dude, I don't have enough time in the day to do what you do and I consider myself a pretty avid fan. I left these boards for a while due to all the BS and nonstop negative comments. I come back and it has been a bit more rational etc with the exception of you and Joke.

The funny thing is, every time I read Ted's blog and he keeps pleading with people to be positive all I can think of is you and Joke blowing up his email with all your crap. There's something to be said for fair critisizism then there's you. Dude take a break. Go for a walk. Take your dog. Can you go a few hours without posting something? I'm not even asking for a positive posting yet but we'll work towards that. Baby steps, baby steps.

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | August 1, 2010 9:54 PM | Report abuse

LOL only a dope like you would actually read Ted's blog and send him emails...

Posted by: joek443 | August 1, 2010 10:57 PM | Report abuse

U2: I put the spreadsheet up on Friday (so it's up near the top). I think we have $3.3M in space counting MP and AGordo as the 22nd and 23rd players, and counting the full hit of Alzner's bonus.

My desire is move Flash and Ersk and then you have $7.2M for a legitimate #2 center and a decent #1 pair D man. Not All-Star quality, but mid-pack #1 pair.

OK, off to the beach.

tombackinflonvacation

Posted by: tominsocal1 | August 2, 2010 6:24 AM | Report abuse

cstanton1: "...So basically, had McPhee and his scouting staff simply invested at least one mid to late round pick each yr on a big bruising fighter type (like MANY OTHER TEAMS DO EACH YR), instead of being forced to address a need and having to deal away a decent prospect..."

The Caps are loaded with resources. With those resources they can address their needs when they have to. I can see having issues with moves like trading Oskala (sp?) for a rental player, and of course one of the worst moves of all time, the hiring of Cassidy, but not this move.

Posted by: BetterOffWithFedorov | August 2, 2010 8:38 AM | Report abuse

"LOL only a dope like you would actually read Ted's blog and send him emails...
Posted by: joek443 | August 1, 2010 10:57 PM"

Why is reading Ted's blog and emailing him a bad thing? I don't care about the non-Caps stuff, but his thought and opinion matters. He is responsive to emails, so telling him what you think in email is acceptable. You might not like his opinion and email response, though.

Posted by: _Mark | August 2, 2010 8:46 AM | Report abuse

My desire is move Flash and Ersk and then you have $7.2M for a legitimate #2 center and a decent #1 pair D man. Not All-Star quality, but mid-pack #1 pair.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | August 2, 2010 6:24 AM

Hoooooray...talk about making more cap room and Semin wasn't mentioned. Thanks for getting my Monday started off the right way Tomin(insert state).

I agree, send Flash and Ersk packing. They are expendable and we have needs that require their cap space. Hmm, do you think tossing in Sloan would hurt or help a trade?

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | August 2, 2010 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Just read an article in a Swedish paper on Forsberg who apparently has been skating for a month now with Victor Hedman and Tobias Enstrom back in Sweden. According to them, he looked "awesome"...I realize the odds are he will not last half a NHL season but I can't help but wish for his presence in DC. Yes, yes, I know it's totally irrational...

Posted by: jakopz | August 2, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

I can see having issues with moves like trading Oskala (sp?) for a rental player, and of course one of the worst moves of all time, the hiring of Cassidy, but not this move.
-------------

And not just any rental player but Joe Freaking Corvo; never in a lifetime of playing and watching hockey have I seen a puck-moving d-man so consistently move the puck to the other team.

And "Butch" Cassidy - painful, painful memories. The head hurts.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | August 2, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Hawks have to decide on Niemi today dont they? They need cap room to take him. I think they should trade Sharp away. :) We toss in Flash (and maybe a late round pick). Then they save $1.3 mil in cap space. Win Win if you ask me. Thoughts?

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | August 2, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

@jakopz - my all-time favorite hockey player. I still remember it was his rookie year with the Nordiques, and his coach [Marc Crawford, IIRC] said he was one of the three best centers in the league - and there were a boatload of great centers at that time.

Was that article in Expressen? I haven't seen it yet.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | August 2, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Brash traded to ATL. I hope they waive him.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | August 2, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

@Timo_1

My favorite player all time as well. Yes, Expressen but it's all over Swedish media.

Posted by: jakopz | August 2, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

@wtf_e_fehr

Brash will be waived once he clears waivers.

Posted by: sgm3 | August 2, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Joke, yes I read Ted's blog but haven't emailed him in over a yr. Not that that "classifies" somebody. I've been reading it more lately to educate myself on the improvements he's going to be making to the phone booth. You know if you read a lil more you might be able to educate yourself as well and not sound so much like an idiot every time you post. You take the easy way out though and just post negative crap that has no merit.

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | August 2, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

@wtf_e_fehr

Sorry, I meant Brash will be bought out once he clears waivers.

Posted by: sgm3 | August 2, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

So Chicago has walked away from Niemi and signed Turco.

It will be weird when they raise their stanley cup banner figuring over half the team present wasn't on the team that won the cup.

Talk about a complete overhaul.

Posted by: sgm3 | August 2, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

What do we think of Willie Mitchell as an addition to the Caps...I know he has the concussion history, but he could be a good mentor for Alzner and Carlson?

Posted by: capscoach | July 30, 2010 7:59 PM


@capscoach:

Adding Mitchell: Good
Adding Mitchell plus trading Flash to Vancouver for Bieksa = Better

I have explained in previous posts why the latter benefits both teams.

Posted by: Rhino40 | August 2, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

So Chicago has walked away from Niemi and signed Turco.

It will be weird when they raise their stanley cup banner figuring over half the team present wasn't on the team that won the cup.

Talk about a complete overhaul.

Posted by: sgm3 | August 2, 2010 11:18 AM |


This exactly why--in the salary cap era--it is important to build for the long term, so that you don't have to blow the team up right after winning the greatest prize of all.

I would rejoice beyond all precedent to see the Caps win the Stanley Cup.

That said, I also think it would seriously suck on many levels not to have most--not just some--of the players who earned it present at the Phone Booth when the banner is raised.

Ideally they should all be there. I know that's not possile because someone (i.e., two or three guys, tops) will inveitably get traded/retire/not get re-signed.

Still...


Speaking of re-signed: anybody know what's up with Shaone ("The Other") Morrissonn(sp)?

Posted by: Rhino40 | August 2, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

@sgm3 - I can't believe the Hawks did that - walking away from an SC-winning, young goaltender for one, but signing an over-the-hill, noticeably slow Turco for another. Stunning. And Turco's always been a bit of a loose cannon. Wow.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | August 2, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

@Rhino40

I agree. It worked out for Chicago because they ended up winning, but imagine the reaction if they lost to the Flyers in the finals or to the Predators in the 1st round. The Blackhawks are still a good team but are no where near what they were last year.

@Timbo_1

I agree that Turco is over the hill. And I never thought he was all that great to begin with. IMO, he was good, but he put up his great numbers during the dead puck era, on a great defensive team in Dallas who let up about 14 shots per game.

It seemed that whatever goalie Dallas played during that time put up great numbers.

Posted by: sgm3 | August 2, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, not sure I agree with their decision. Guess they figured their goalie was more expendable. Think they are under the cap now too, so not likely to trade anyone now.

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | August 2, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Could you imagine the poop they would be taking if they hadn't gotten the shorty against Nashville in Game 5 and had gone to Nashville and been eliminated then had to get rid of the team?

Oh wait that did happen to the Caps and some here did want us to trade Semin or Flash or someone and change the whole makeup of the team.

The only reason anyone notices this is because they did happen to win the Cup. Does no one remember the trade deadline where many were taking shots at Chicago for not getting goaltending help saying they would be knocked out in the first or second round because Huet and Neimi couldn't do it?

Now Chicago has Turco who as recently as 2008 had his team in the conference finals and has a career GAA in the playoffs of 2.17. Is that really so much of a downgrade? Neimi's GAA was 2.63 and his save percentage was worse as well. Since the lockout Turco actually has more playoff wins then guys like Marty Brouder. Turco has played on Dallas where the last few years they have been bad in front of him. Look at the 06-07 playoffs as an example. He lost in the first round with three shutouts. He lost three games that year where he only let up 2 goals (2 2-1 losses and a 4-1 loss with 2 empty nets). The only game his team scored more then two goals in the entire seven game series was game one which he lost 5-4 in 4OT.

Yes Turco might be older but he still posted a 2.72 GAA and a 91.3 save %. With the scoring power of Chicago they will be just fine.

Posted by: icehammer97 | August 2, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Exactly, even average goalies looked pretty with all the obstruction, hooking and holding they allowed in those days, doubly so if they played behind a great D. Turco and Osgood being two prime beneficiaries and examples of both.

I don't think Keith's going to win the Norris this year; not with Turco behind him. That guy makes Patty Roy look calm and composed by comparison.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | August 2, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Brendan Witt is an UFA.

Whaddaya say we sign him? For old times' sake?

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | August 2, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

@ Timbo_1. So what about when Osgood left Detroit and had one of his best years with St. Louis? Or the fact he made to playoffs all three years he was not in Detroit including one with the Islanders. The only full season he was on the Island they went from 21 wins the year before to 42 his full year there. Sometimes goalies get a reputation for only being good because of their team. Osgood showed he could still be good even on poorer teams. I think Turco could have the same thing happen this year. He could show people he is still a good goalie and it is not like he is joining the Islanders who are horrible. Chicago will still be a very strong team. They just will need some of their new guys to step up a bit.

Posted by: icehammer97 | August 2, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

So since this NHL.com article http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=535345 says the Caps are a team that might go after Neimi is there anyone here who wants him?

Posted by: icehammer97 | August 2, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm...Niemi's good, that's for sure.

But where to put him? and what to do with Varly and Neuvy while he is here??

IMO Costs/risks of acquiring Niemi do not outweigh the short- or long-term benefits, so I say no.

Posted by: Rhino40 | August 2, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

@icehammer97

Chicago will definitely still be a very good team because their top 2 lines and their top 4 D are outstanding.

However, the question still remains of who is going to play on lines 3 and 4 and as the 3rd pairing defense.

Part of the reason of Chicago's success last year was their incredible depth. Of course someone unheard of could step up and play great in that role. But they are definitely lacking in depth and could be in real distress if they suffer some injuries to any of the top line guys.

Turco, IMO, is an average goalie who combined with his age is slightly below average now. His playoff GAA is so much lower because of the time period he played and with the success of Dallas at that time, a significant portion of his playoff games were played during that period.

Overall, I don't think it will hurt Chicago that much switching from Niemi to Turco, but in combination with all their other changes, it is starting to add up.

Posted by: sgm3 | August 2, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Not me, I say go with the kids. Use that capspace elsewhere.

Posted by: wtf_e_fehr | August 2, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

The Caps will need to trade one of their top 3 goalies in the next few years but not sure if now would be the right time to unload either Neuvy or Varly to make room for Niemi. Plus, it will eat into available cap space which will limit what the Caps could do later to add either a center or d-man.

Posted by: MReilly9 | August 2, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

To be clear I don't want Neimi I just wanted some other opinions.

Also on the difference between him and Turco their save % last year was almost identical Dallas just gave up many more shots so Turco's GAA was higher. People talk about how he has lost a step but really he just had a bad year in 08-09 and bounced back fairly well last season on a Dallas team that was starting their Cap dump and ownership issues.

Posted by: icehammer97 | August 2, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

I think that whenever a goalie is available all writers have to put Washington in as a possible destination, but as mentioned in that article, the Caps are happy with their young guys and are going with them. Salary cap reasons just reinforce this position.

And it's not like they don't have playoff experience, Varly has played in 19 playoff games so far and played in 3 game 7's(one bad, two pretty solid). Last year Varly was 1st star in games 3 and 4 and played fine in games 5, 6, and 7. Varly was awesome against the Pens(excluding game 7) in '09 and was great against the Rangers(a few shutouts and 2 one goal games).

IMO, they go with those two, and if for some reason they think they need a veteran goalie by the trade deadline

Posted by: sgm3 | August 2, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

+1 on staying with the young guns. this year will be a year of tremendous growth for them but the ability to have a shared #1 spot should relieve the expectations

hopefully GMGM read the release about Niemi and went back to trading Flash for Pavelsky, Doughty or Seidenberg

Posted by: mcintire_will | August 2, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Ha, I like Flash more than others here but I'm sure GMGM would make those deals in a heartbeat; no way either Seidenberg or Doughty is the return though, the other GMs aren't dolts, unfortunately.

Pavelski's good but he can also disappear for shifts at a time; he didn't do much after that one hyped series, IIRC. Great hands but not a great burst - I saw him play in college at WI and thought the same thing fwiw - so once an opponent keys on him they can shut him down. From what I've seen anyway.

Posted by: Timbo_1 | August 2, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

New Thread...

Posted by: Rhino40 | August 2, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

FYI

According to the ESPN Insider, McPhee says he is done for the off season. That this is the team we are going to camp with.

Well done George. You have a team on the verge, and you do nothing to improve.

Posted by: underpants2 | August 2, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Agree with many of the posters here on Niemi vice a vice Turco.

I haven't specifically studied the salary numbers on them. I know that Niemi was awarded 2.7M in arbitration and that that the Hawks signed up Niemi. If money were not a problem for the Hawks, I would have opted for Niemi over Turco. Generally, a young proven goaltender is a better strategy (Niemi) than a goalie who is over the hill, like Turco. But I'm assuming that Turco signed for a relatively low salary (after a poor year) since there's a glut of goalies on the market.

As for the Caps getting Niemi, I'd say "No", given that Varly and Neuvy seem to be ready. I'm sure the Caps will have to choose between them (not to mention Holtby) but right now is not the time. And, on Niemi, I don't think he's much of an upgrade (if even an upgrade) over our current goalies.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | August 2, 2010 7:12 PM | Report abuse

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