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Posted at 2:31 PM ET, 12/21/2010

Injury-riddled Devils have had it even worse than Caps

By Greg Schimmel

As frustrating as things have been for the Capitals the past few weeks, it is practically nothing compared to what tonight's opponent has dealt with all season.

The New Jersey Devils visit Verizon Center tonight sporting a dismal 9-21-2 record for a 20-point total that is the second-lowest in the league.

The Devils have lost eight of their last 10 games, have dropped eight straight on the road, and are coming off of a 7-1 loss in Atlanta on Saturday their last time out.

Still, they beat the Caps, 5-0, in the teams' last meeting Nov. 22, and Washington certainly isn't in a position to take anybody lightly.

"I look at their lineup, and their top two lines are as good as anybody's," Coach Bruce Boudreau said of a group that includes Patrik Elias and Ilya Kovalchuk. "I mean they've still got a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer in net and they're probably really ticked off that they lost 7-1. We better be ready."

The Devils have had significant injury issues all season, and winger Zach Parise (knee) headlines a list of players who remain out dealing with longterm ailments that also includes three of their regular defensemen.

Aforementioned future-Hall-of-Fame goaltender Martin Brodeur missed about two weeks earlier in the year with an elbow injury, and veteran forwards Jamie Langenbrunner (sore neck) and Brian Rolston (sports hernia) also missed significant time.

Brodeur was pulled in the middle of the loss to the Thrashers, but he is expected to make his sixth straight start tonight.

"For all the things that have been terrible about us, it's a little bit worse for them," Caps winger Mike Knuble said. "We know how they're feeling but we're trying to climb out of a hole ourselves, so we're not worried about them. We need to get some wins going."

The Caps finally snapped their eight-game losing streak on Sunday with a 3-2 win in Ottawa, but a loss to the lowly Devils tonight would kill any of the good vibes that came out of that victory.

"We've won one game. One stinkin' game," Boudreau said. "We've got to continue winning. Our division is so strong right now and playing so well that we need to continue to have success."

By Greg Schimmel  | December 21, 2010; 2:31 PM ET
Categories:  New Jersey Devils  
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Next: Tonight's lineup: Devils at Caps

Comments

In the NHL, he was more of an agitator, he wasn't taking cheap shots or flagrant fouls; instead he'd irritate opposing players--a face wash, a butt end, a little jab from behind.

Posted by: getjiggly1

Ok, Jiggly picks up where SGM leaves off. With more inaccuracies.

You know nothing about Messier. I repeat, NOTHING. Did i make that clear enough? You're talking out of your butt.

Messier delivered some devastating cheapshots as an NHL player. He sucker punched Jamie Macoun when he wasn't lookin and broke his jaw. I think he got 11 games for that. Besides that, he threw more elbows in his career than I would say the entire Caps team has thrown in their collective careers. Elbows to the head no less.

So don't come on here acting like you know who Mark Messier was as an NHL player and spout your nonsense. You don't know Messier, you just pretend you do.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

@sgm3:

With all due respect, I have to disagree with you here. If Cooke hits Green the way he hit Yandle, I do NOT think you retaliate against Cooke. You take out Crosby. Until teams fear retribution, they will take advantage.

Yes someone can go after Ovi, but I'm pretty sure 235lbs Ovi will keep his head up.

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

From previous thread:

"btw, you can also win Cups with the Alex Semins and Jeff Schultz's of the world. In fact, some may say you can't win Cups with players like that. But at the very least, you can win Cups without them and there is no evidence you need players like that."

Sure, some people may say that, and they'd be wrong. Teams have won cups with players like them a lot. You're intentionally missing the point, though. The point is that I don't want players like Cooke, but I do want a cup. I can have both, as has been shown over the years.

You better believe that if it's game 7 OT and some one is in the slot like Savard and a Cap lets up on a hit he'd be crucified on here. I want players who will make that hit to stay alive in the playoffs. If you don't then you should probably stop watching hockey. either that, or learn hockey to begin with.

Posted by: GFisher1

You're missing the point. I don't care about hitting a guy in the slot. I care about cheap shots. Yes, if it's game 7 OT and Savard is in the slot, I don't mind one of our guys hitting him, as long as it's not a cheap shot with an intent to injure. What I don't want is Hendricks in that situation boarding someone when no one's looking and he can do the most damage.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | December 21, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Bah, WP wont let me comment back on the other thread...guess that means they would like to just let it go. Okie dokie.

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | December 21, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Here you go Jiggly. This lesson was free.

And the rest of the Cooke haters can at least now understand that a guy like Messier was way worse. As big and strong as he was, his headshots delivered a lot more pain. Seriously, some of you need to get a clue about this kind of stuff. It would be similar to 10 yrs down the road having to explain to the next generation how Matt Cooke occasionally threw a dirty hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yxLlZkknv0

nice one on Jagr here. 1 of 3 in this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbuYFx4dPnw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEUa0RuFd6A&feature=related

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

at the 27 second mark, he delivers a brutal elbow to dale degray

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22dMrNtPfvc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BJ12dpgRIA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8ySUzBoBzg&feature=related


next we can discuss Gordie Howe. You guys heard of him right?

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

From previous:

sgm3,

How the heck is it not on the same level as a cheap shot to the head? Can not both types of hits end careers? Can not a knee on knee hit end up with someone either in a wheelchair or walking with a significant limp the rest of their lives?

You are being a hypocrite in this situation if you can not see they are both dirty hits but because it is Ovie you are ok with it. Convenient.

Posted by: PhilR

Posted by: PhilR | December 21, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Sure, some people may say that, and they'd be wrong. Teams have won cups with players like them a lot.
---------------

like who?

give me a few names on Cup rosters who resemble Sarge and Semin. You wanna pick Lidstrom ? ok i'll give you Lidstrom even thought I totally disagree that Sarge = Lidstrom.

who else? Don't say Kubina.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

From previous:

Steve_R,

But crayons are tasty!

And, when you say drooling do you mean like me when that new Victoria Secrets angels commercial airs on tv?

Posted by: PhilR

Posted by: PhilR | December 21, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Based on the injury/illness problems that have plagued the Caps, I heard news from Kettler just a few minutes ago that the Bud Light Zamboni driver will be in the line up tonight. They anticipate he will play LW on the 4th line while DJ King remains a healthy scratch.

:-)

Posted by: AADCDERM | December 21, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

"If Cooke hits Green the way he hit Yandle, I do NOT think you retaliate against Cooke. You take out Crosby. Until teams fear retribution, they will take advantage."

@will111

My problem is with the Cooke hit in the first place. It should not be lauded and should be criticized for being dirty, not part of the game, and risking another person's long term health and well being.

I do not agree that the way to react to a disgraceful hit like that is to do the same thing yourself. Remember the old addage, two wrongs do not make a right. I believe in taking the high road and doing what is right and humane. The NHL will eventually get this garbage out of the game. Cooke should be fined and suspended for a long time.

Just like in the NFL, the best way to prevent players from committing cheap shots is to hit them in the pocketbook.

Posted by: sgm3 | December 21, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

From previous:

Homer with a doughnut.

Yea, my wife busts my chops every time those commercials are on. Eyes glued to the TV.

Posted by: Steve_R

Posted by: Steve_R | December 21, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1:

Brett Lebda.

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

sgm,

But the NHL does fine players. $2500 max per the CBA I think.

Posted by: Steve_R | December 21, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

like who?

give me a few names on Cup rosters who resemble Sarge and Semin. You wanna pick Lidstrom ? ok i'll give you Lidstrom even thought I totally disagree that Sarge = Lidstrom.

who else? Don't say Kubina.

Posted by: cstanton1

Pick a team. Are you seriously going to argue that no team with a finesse goal-scorer has ever won a cup? Are you going to argue that no team with a big stay-at-home D-man who's not very physical has won a cup? Are you serious?

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | December 21, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

I have two conclusions from this topic:

1) You absolutely, positively can't be expected to compete for the Cup w/o a certain level of "agitation" on your team. On a scale of 1-10, the Caps rate a 1.5 or 2. You must at least be a 7.

2) Some fans for whatever reason just can't and won't understand this. Maybe they think also you can win in BB w/o a point guard and can win the WS w/o a closer.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | December 21, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1:

Ruslan Fedotenko TB 2004

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1:

Ruslan Fedotenko TB 2004

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

1) You absolutely, positively can't be expected to compete for the Cup w/o a certain level of "agitation" on your team. On a scale of 1-10, the Caps rate a 1.5 or 2. You must at least be a 7.

2) Some fans for whatever reason just can't and won't understand this. Maybe they think also you can win in BB w/o a point guard and can win the WS w/o a closer.

Posted by: tominsocal1

I'm curious where you got #2. We don't mind agitation; we just don't want cheap-shotters. Who on Chicago last year was a cheap-shotter?

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | December 21, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

sgm3,

How the heck is it not on the same level as a cheap shot to the head? Can not both types of hits end careers? Can not a knee on knee hit end up with someone either in a wheelchair or walking with a significant limp the rest of their lives?

You are being a hypocrite in this situation if you can not see they are both dirty hits but because it is Ovie you are ok with it. Convenient.

Posted by: PhilR

his level of analsyis is done at the most basic of levels. You'd think that would be obvious to him before he made that argument. Again, lets see what happens if Semin takes a knee to knee hit. He'll be singing a very different tune and using an asinine argument to defend his (everchanging) point of view.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

But the NHL does fine players. $2500 max per the CBA I think.

Posted by: Steve_R

You are right about that(hopefully that gets changed), but that shows the need for a long suspension(the player does not get his gamecheck when suspended)

Posted by: sgm3 | December 21, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

@ cstanton1:

Derek Meech

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

sgm3-What's the difference between the Cooke hit on Savard and the blatant elbow to the head which cost Mike Green 3 games last year?

Posted by: ablake70 | December 21, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

@ cstanton1:

Mike Commodore: Carolina Hurricanes 2006

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

@PhilR

Please practice your reading comprehension. I never said knee-on-knee hits were okay. This is what I said:

"A knee-on-knee hit gets a penalty and a possible suspension(depending on the specific facts that led to the hit). But it is not at the same level as a cheap shot to the head.

Just because a 1st action(knee-on-knee hit) is not AS BAD as a 2nd action(head shot) does not make that 1st action(knee-on-knee hit) okay."

Posted by: sgm3 | December 21, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

@ cstanton1:

Jeff Taffe Pitt 2009

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

DblAlex: Some people on here wrote, to paraphrase, "you can win a Cup w/o some Matt Cooke."

You can't. That doesn't mean you MUST have cheap shots, it just means that you MUST have the agitation. We had Esa Tikkanen in 98 when we went to the Finals (and Hunter...and Berube...and Simon...and Kono).

My point is that agitation is one part of the necessary recipe. I will grant you cheap-shotting is not.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | December 21, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

It's too funny reading all the comments by the pacifist, nouveau-riche Caps fans who think "80's hockey" is passe and obsolete. This is the NHL, players make wads of cash, and it is not a "gentlemanly" sport as the Caps organization apparently thinks it is. I've seen Div. III college hockey teams in VT. play w/more intensity and physicality than the Caps.

You've got to love some of the shirts being sold INSIDE TD Garden: God Bless a Good Fight (w/the B as the Bruins logo), "Lucic Fight Club" and a few more that escape me.

DC fans? I think some of you should stick to watching the floor hockey games in your local middle school.

The lineup BB has put together tonight DISGUSTS me and I'd love to see the sorry, pitiful Devils beat us tonight.

Good Luck #4, play well and stay safe.....

Posted by: vermontcaps | December 21, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

@ablake70

I don't think Green INTENTIONALLY went after the head. That was the difference there. There are some hits in hockey where contact to the head is made, but it is not intentional. It did not appear as though Green was INTENTIONALLY targeting the head. (you have to judge each hit by itself)

But if Green INTENTIONALLY went after the head then it would in the same category.

Posted by: sgm3 | December 21, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

"give me a few names on Cup rosters who resemble Sarge and Semin. You wanna pick Lidstrom ? ok i'll give you Lidstrom even thought I totally disagree that Sarge = Lidstrom."

@ cstanton1:
Seriously, should I keep listing names or can we just acknowledge that cup rosters have a whole spectrum of players. Talk about broad strokes... you're more guilty than anyone else on here.

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Go Caps! How 'bout a 5 - 0 Caps win tonight!
Now only to play devil's advocate (no pun intended): What happens tomorrow if the Devils win tonight? Where are our Caps at that point? Obviously you expect a win, but is there a Plan B?
Sorry, it's cold here in the Cave.

Posted by: kcbrichmond | December 21, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

ablake,

the fact that Greenie hit the son of the guy giving out the suspensions didn't help...

Posted by: Steve_R | December 21, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

vermontcaps: The funniest thing is that the people who argue hardest and longest against agitation are BY GOD some of the very biggest agitators here!

Posted by: tominsocal1 | December 21, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

@Will

Brett Lebda? How is he equivalent to Sarge? You ever see a Brett Lebda hipcheck in the neutral zone? Its very effective and puts his man out of the play.

And Fedotenko is a HORRIBLE comparison to Semin. May as well say Matt Cooke. You ever seen Fedotenko play? The guy is a merciless forechecking beast who punishes players with his body. Wasn't he the one who took out Eric Fehr with the huge hit along the boards in the playoffs? Did you watch the Tampa Cup run at all? Fedotenko was hands down the most physical forward on Tampa.

Seriously, where do you get this stuff? Lebda is probably closer to Sarge than Fedotenko is to Semin. In fact, there is NO comparision between RF and AS. None. Completely invalid. Fedotenko is a grinding physical forward who lays big punishing checks. How is that comparative to Semin?

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Who on Chicago last year was a cheap-shotter?
--Alex--

I guess you never heard of guys like Eager, Burish, and Fraser. Those guys are not above dirty play.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

"Fedotenko is a grinding physical forward."

@cstanton1:

That is the first time EVER that these 6 words have been put into one sentence.

You have got to be kidding.

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

@ cstanton1:
Seriously, should I keep listing names or can we just acknowledge that cup rosters have a whole spectrum of players
--------

umm...seriously, Brett Lebda and Ruslan Fedotenko are your examples?

you're out of your mind and it shows. You have no concept of what type of player Fedotenko is.

Re Lebda, show me one play where Jeff Schultz has stepped up in the neutral zone and knocked a player off the puck. Go ahead, I'm waiting. Lebda isn't a nasty player but he's a simple effective checker who has no problem using his body to separate a man from the puck.

@Alex

Give me examples, don't put it back on me. AT least Will tried.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Green INTENTIONALLY went after the head. That was the difference there. There are some hits in hockey where contact to the head is made, but it is not intentional. It did not appear as though Green was INTENTIONALLY targeting the head. (you have to judge each hit by itself)

But if Green INTENTIONALLY went after the head then it would in the same category.

Posted by: sgm3

Are you kidding? Of course he did. Green had his elbow in position at least 2 or 3 strides prior to making contact. What other target was there?

Posted by: ablake70 | December 21, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

tom,

That's a good point. I was wondering where the 1860 cstanton thread would head to, but it got dropped after a couple of salvo's. Bummer.

Posted by: Steve_R | December 21, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

That is the first time EVER that these 6 words have been put into one sentence.

You have got to be kidding.


Posted by: will111

want me to prove it to you somehow? I can look up and find quite a few different ways to prove that Fedotenko is a hard hitting grinding forward. Just say the word buddy, I don't mind embarassing you. But I'll give you a chance to think about it before I do.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

DblAlex: Some people on here wrote, to paraphrase, "you can win a Cup w/o some Matt Cooke."

You can't. That doesn't mean you MUST have cheap shots, it just means that you MUST have the agitation. We had Esa Tikkanen in 98 when we went to the Finals (and Hunter...and Berube...and Simon...and Kono).

My point is that agitation is one part of the necessary recipe. I will grant you cheap-shotting is not.

Posted by: tominsocal1

Ah, OK. You're just misinterpretting my comment. As you say, what you don't need is cheap-shotting, and therefore don't need a Cooke. What we've been talking about is Cooke's dirty play/cheap shots. You can have an agitator without having cheap shots. When I say you can win a cup without a Cooke, I'm saying you can win a cup without a cheap-shotter. That is not to say you don't need an agitato-type, just not a Matt Cooke-agitator-type.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | December 21, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

Saw your post about the Caps having interviewed Nolan before settling on Cassidy. I never knew that, but the more I think of it, it's a microcosim of what ails the organization: turn away a proven coach, favoring a loser-nobody in the form of Cassidy.

We shun guys like Erskine and DJK in favor of guys like ****55, Poti, Alzner, Hannan, Beagle, Steckel, Gordon, and numerous others.

I've been reluctant to criticize GMGM to this point, instead focusing on BB. Well, cstanton, you've convinced me they're attached at the hip and it's time for change....the two of them have taken the team as far as they can, and one or both of them must go if we're to have any shot this year.

Posted by: vermontcaps | December 21, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

@Alex

Give me examples, don't put it back on me. AT least Will tried.

Posted by: cstanton1

Sorry, I'm not going to waste time proving something that should be insanely obvious. I'll just let you keep living in your dream world, my man. Have fun.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | December 21, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Are you kidding? Of course he did. Green had his elbow in position at least 2 or 3 strides prior to making contact. What other target was there?

Posted by: ablake70 |

its pretty simple really. Anythng the Caps do is justifiable and easily explainable. Anythng done to us, is not. For a #s guy, I have never run into a less objective individual, anywhere. Zero credibility.

SGM3 is the Larry Michael of the Capitals.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1:

1. You still have not repsonded to my other names.

2. I want to give you a chance to take back your absurd statement with regards to Fedotenko.

3. Schultz separates players from the puck all the time. Admittedly, he doesn't do it in highlight reel fashion but none the less he's a solid defenseman.

4. Would you trade Shultz for Deryk Engelland?

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Minus the cheap shots, Cooke is very effective. Good on the pk, great forechecker, not shy to hit people. Can score dirty goals. People have to be aware of where he is on the ice. D@@chebag yes, effective yes.

I was bummed when Brads got extended and Cooke departed, I thought Cooke a much better choice for roughly the same money (Cooke +250K at that time).

Posted by: Steve_R | December 21, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

"In fact, there is NO comparision between RF and AS. " - cstanton1

Not true, they both come from countries that use the cyrillic alphabet and both their last names contain an "e" and an "n".

POW...that's 2 comparisons (sans the "i"). Mind blowing isnt it?

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | December 21, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

So what's up with Ovechkin's skates this year? Did he switch brands or something because he's losing edges and falling all over the place. I keep seeing these commercials with him in them for skates and think I'd never buy them if one of the best players in the world can't seem to stand up with them. He also looks like he doesn't have any jump this season but it often looks like he goes to start skating hard but an edge slips or something so he doesn't really get a good first push-off. Don't know what it is but something's off.

Posted by: Stu_c | December 21, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, I'm not going to waste time proving something that should be insanely obvious. I'll just let you keep living in your dream world, my man. Have fun.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex |

ok, sounds like a major copout.

Your implication that teams who win the Cup manage to do so without any cheapshots or questionable hits along the way is extremely naive. There's that word again.

You have provided zero examples of players like Sarge who have been on Cup rosters. So yeah, you bailed on your own argument. WE can end it on that note.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

DblAlex: Admittedly though it's really hard to find an agitator who doesn't "cross the line" now and again, Dale Hunter being a very good example.

The best thing an agitator does is throw the other team off its game, Downie v Ovechkin last year in Tampa and example of that. One of the players I wanted over the summer was Downie, and actually had the nerve to suggest we send Semin to Tampa for Downie and the 6th overall pick. Maybe not such a good deal. Other guys I wanted were Umberger and/or Clutterbuck, guys who have traits the Caps need but lack.

Posted by: tominsocal1 | December 21, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

"ok, sounds like a major copout."
@cstanton1:

speaking of copouts, I'm still waiting on your response.

Jeff Taffe Pitt 2009
Derek Meech
Mike Commodore: Carolina Hurricanes 2006

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

@will

So you compared Semin to a guy in Fedotenko who racked up just under 150 hits last yr between the reg season and playoffs. AT THE AGE OF 30! After a ton of abuse on his body over the years no less.

Why not compare Sarge to Dustin Bfuglien? It holds about the same amount of merit.

You think if Semin racked up 150 hits per yr that we'd be discussing his lack of "grit"

get a clue. Youre out of your league.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Are you kidding? Of course he did. Green had his elbow in position at least 2 or 3 strides prior to making contact. What other target was there?

Posted by: ablake70

Like I said, IF Green INTENTIONALLY went after his head then that hit falls in with all the other dispicable ones. I do not excuse that because he plays for the Caps.

As I remember I thought that the hit did not look as though Green INTENTIONALLY hit him in the head. Although I haven't seen the hit in a long time and do not sit around thinking about it.

So if it was an INTENTIONAL hit to the head then it fits, if it wasn't then it doesn't.

Posted by: sgm3 | December 21, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Mike Commodore: Carolina Hurricanes 2006

Posted by: will111 |


ROFLMAO!! Now I know you're a total d0Uche

mike commodore??? You're comparing Mike Commodore to Jeff Schultz??

someone please make it stop. Next our Will will be comparing Mother Theresa to Charlie Manson.

seriously, you make SGM seem like an expert. You have no idea who any of these players are you're talking about. Go home. Quit while you're behind. In fact, go look up Mike Commodore and get a clue please. This is just embarassing and now a huge waste of my time.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

@Vermont...how can you decry the lineup the coach is putting together when he only has one spare part-DJ King who has been worthless this year, but King may play if Semin can't go, so he would be playing all his avilable players and you blame hime for the lineup? I just don't get it...By the way I love Erskine, but you need to get over BB's statement on top 6 dmen..he may have forgotten to mention Erskine...I don't feel sorry for Ersk, he will probably end of playing 95% of the games because of injuries, he has picked his game back up and I love having him in the lineup, but it gets tiring of rehashing statements from a month ago...a coach is going to play the best 20 guys each night, they want to win, and their neck is on the line if the team doesn't win

Posted by: boomer44 | December 21, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

@ablake70

In addition, I have never lauded Green for making a play like that. Nor have I ever lauded another Caps player for committing a cheap shot. That is unlike others on this board who commend Cooke(or others) for taking cheap shots on players' heads.

Posted by: sgm3 | December 21, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Dale Hunter being a very good example
-------------------

Dale won the Byng didn't he?

I read that in a book called "The World According to Will111"

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

"get a clue. Youre out of your league."

@cstanton1:

How many times do I have to tell you, your google skills impress no one. You being able to look up obscure facts, does not mean you're super knowledgeable. What a joke.....

Pitt couldn't get rid of Fedotenko fast enough. He's a ghost again this year. I don't care if he has 1000 hits.

The fact that you attack GMGM but would love to have Fedotenko on our team is awesome. People like you make the rest of us feel smart.

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1:

1. You still have not repsonded to my other names.

---Will---

sorry buddy, im still laughing over the ones you've mentioned. Once you say Mike Commodore and Ruslan Fedotenko as examples of Sarge and Semin types, you lose all credibility. I don't even think you've ever heard of these guys before today, much less actually watched them play.


"2. I want to give you a chance to take back your absurd statement with regards to Fedotenko."

i implore you, please stop. I can't take it anymore. Again, you make SGM look like me.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

sgm,

If in a strange twist of fate GMGM was able to get Richards from Philly as 2C, would you object?

Posted by: Steve_R | December 21, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Pitt couldn't get rid of Fedotenko fast enough. He's a ghost again this year. I don't care if he has 1000 hits

---will1-------

you do realize the sheer idiocy of that comment don't you? You compared a guy who doesn't hit with a guy who hits a lot. You may as well compare Bengt Gustafsson to Dale Hunter.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1:

Mike Commodore vs. Jeff Schultz: you have criticized but have given no concrete argument against. Typical cstanton1.

Actually, I probably haven't given you enough time to google it. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

stuC: Interesting that you brought up Ovechkin's skates. My 2 boys who play Mites Hockey, keep saying "there's something wrong with his skates, that's why he's not playing like he used to!". I think he did sign with CCM, didn't he used to wear Bauer? Anyway, he should have the trainers paint his old ones to look like the new ones.

Posted by: kcbrichmond | December 21, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

@Stu_c

I've been wondering the same thing. At first I thought it might have something to do with the Phone Booth ice (as one game lots of players were taking spills), but Ovie seems to do it all over and in various arenas. I dont see myself buying those skates. =)

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | December 21, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Will

Please explain to all of us how you came to the incredibly daft conclusion that Mike Commodore = Jeff Schultz.

This should be good, I went and got some popcorn.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

If in a strange twist of fate GMGM was able to get Richards from Philly as 2C, would you object?

Posted by: Steve_R

Richards is a great hockey player but I wouldn't want him on the Caps if he continued to dish out cheap shots to the head.

If he learned from his prior mistakes and amended his style(something Cooke has not done) to do his best to avoid hitting others in the head, then I would welcome him.

Posted by: sgm3 | December 21, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

ok, sounds like a major copout.

Your implication that teams who win the Cup manage to do so without any cheapshots or questionable hits along the way is extremely naive. There's that word again.

You have provided zero examples of players like Sarge who have been on Cup rosters. So yeah, you bailed on your own argument. WE can end it on that note.

Posted by: cstanton1

Sure. Whatever you have to tell yourself to remain in your bubble. It's cool, man.

It's too bad. For a while there, the comment section here was OK. There were the occasional crazy or stupid comments, but overall, not too bad. But then you had to show up with your nonsense again.

Anyway, you keep on keeping on with your delusions that no cup-winning team ever has a Schultz or Semin type. I'd like to believe stupid things, too, but unfortunately, I have an attachment to reality.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex | December 21, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1:

Mike Commodore vs. Jeff Schultz: you have criticized but have given no concrete argument against.
-------------

why should i have to? Its obvious to everyone but you. Its insulting to even have to explain the differences between those players.

Can you explain the difference between Ovechkin and DJ King?

its about as idiotic a question.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Richards is a great hockey player but I wouldn't want him on the Caps if he continued to dish out cheap shots to the head.

--sgm3--

great! Thank god even McPhee's not stupid enough to turn down a Mike Richards.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

The good news is, if you all keep up all this pointless soap-opera like drama...we may attract more chicks to this blog. Win/Win if you ask me.

20 minutes until tasty beverages and tapas at Jaleo...WOO WOO

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | December 21, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Anyway, you keep on keeping on with your delusions that no cup-winning team ever has a Schultz or Semin type. I'd like to believe stupid things, too, but unfortunately, I have an attachment to reality.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex


I didn't thnk my request to you for examples of such players was out of line. That's why I think you copped out. Just my opinion. Anyone can make vague statements with no support. Its not like I asked you to explain to me the difference between a Jeff Schultz and Mike Commmodore. Now THAT would just be plain cruel to subject you to that level of obtuseness!

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Did people see who the Flyers were supposedly trying to trade to gain cap space. Interesting.

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2010/12/21/1888804/rumors-flyers-offered-van-riemsdyk-price-too-steep

Posted by: sgm3 | December 21, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Anyway, you keep on keeping on with your delusions that no cup-winning team ever has a Schultz or Semin type.

Posted by: TheDoubleAlex

Patrick Kane

Posted by: ablake70 | December 21, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

oh i don't think its pointless at all.

When someone pretends to know much more than they do, i can spend/waste time blowing them out of the water. It behooves us to do that. To maintain some level of honesty on this blog.

@Will

I'll make you a deal. You tell me why YOU think Schultz=Commodore. And then I'll be more than happy to point out why you're wrong..err..explain the differences. I'm just surprised no other regular on this board has jumped in and done it for me. "Will" may actually believe it if it comes from someone besides myself.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

"I'm just surprised no other regular on this board has jumped in and done it for me"

cstanton, you're doing fine by yourself.

I'm guessing that sgm is regretting saying that he won't reply to you. He's probably itching to chime in.

Posted by: Steve_R | December 21, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1

Saw your post about the Caps having interviewed Nolan before settling on Cassidy. I never knew that, but the more I think of it, it's a microcosim of what ails the organization: turn away a proven coach, favoring a loser-nobody in the form of Cassidy.

---------------

Nolan got blackballed for a variety of reasons and at least the Caps saw fit to interview him. But they walked away not happy with his response to one specific question. And if there's truth to how it was relayed to me, I can't blame em. Even though I was a big Ted Nolan fan.

But, still no excuse for hiring Butch. Bonehead move.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

DoubleAlex-The better question is, if you take those coveted skill players off their teams and put them on the Caps, would their play remain the same? How many times would Crosby would shove/slash/yap or Briere spear someone if they knew their teammates would let them get their a$$es kicked every time.

And boy does Flash look like a different player on the Avs. Going to the net and getting dirty goals. What changed?

Posted by: ablake70 | December 21, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

cstanton, you're doing fine by yourself.

I'm guessing that sgm is regretting saying that he won't reply to you. He's probably itching to chime in.

Posted by: Steve_R

oh i didnt see that, thx for the heads up.

i love how we become prisoners of our own vows.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

No it's pointless, but please, continue...makes fun reading.

For the rest of us, and you have to pick one...who would win in a fight:

Cstanton1's dad or will111's

Next week on As the CI World Turns
Sgm3's arguements circle more than Nylander; who is the father of capscoach's baby; will tominsocal drink wine and post more Star Trek & Caps related scenes.....tune in next week to find out. (play music)

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | December 21, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Welcome, it was all part of that 1860 thing I believe.

Posted by: Steve_R | December 21, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

sgm3-Green did INTENTIONALLY hit that guy in the head. If you only support teams that don't employ cheapshot artists/dirty players, you probably should find another sport.

Posted by: ablake70 | December 21, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Anybody else going tonight?

Posted by: Steve_R | December 21, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Next our Will will be comparing Mother Theresa to Charlie Manson. Posted by: cstanton1
Mother Theresa never killed anyone and to be fair neither did Manson, he only told other people to do it, so that may be a fair comparison.

@SAOTI- From a few threads ago-Thanks,you owe me a new pair of fuzzy bunny slippers you SOB! :) I know I'm one of the one who's called for trading your boy and as I've said I think skill wise, he's as good as they come and he's also improved considerably on the other parts of his game. I just think it's in the Caps best interest to deal him now rather than re-sign him for the amount I think it will take to keep him. Dealing him now we could get any piece we think this team needs, re-sign him for what he'll likely want and we'll limit this teams options with regards to cap space. BTW- I felt guilty when I found out you'd gotten me a gift so I ran out and scooped you up a little somethin', you'll find it on your front porch.:)

Posted by: FunkyGloveFacewash | December 21, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

I think Cstanton1 google broke. he hasn't spouted out some obscure stat in like 20 minutes.

He asked me a question I gave a very good answer.

@Cstanton1: Would you trade Shultz for Commodore?

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

right, thats the one where i was running a slave ship and only employing gritty slaves who didn't mind rowing until their hands bled. All the softer slaves were immediately dumped overboard.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Mother Theresa never killed anyone and to be fair neither did Manson, he only told other people to do it, so that may be a fair comparison.
---------------

i was referring strictly to Manson's affiliation with Dennis Hopper and the Beatles, and later Axl Rose.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

@FunkyGloveFacewash

LOL, just be thankful the fuzzy slippers didnt ignite.

As for Semin resigning hamstringing the Caps, or resident budget analyst (tominsocal) has shown numerous times that we CAN resign him, provide raises and other needed resignings and still have room.

P.S. Thanks for the gift, I love chocolate.

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | December 21, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Yep, that's the one.

Posted by: Steve_R | December 21, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

hahhahahahhaha someone compared semin to fedetenko ahhahahahahhahahahaha

Posted by: rderr27 | December 21, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Will

where's your answer? Again, why did you pick Commodore as an example of a player who allegedly plays like Jeff Schultz?

I can't make it any simpler than that.

I promise you once you give me that explanation, I can explain to you ad nauseum why Commodore is nothing like Schultz stylistically, and why your comparison is the single dumbest comparison I've heard. Next to your comparison of Semin to Fedotenko.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Green did INTENTIONALLY hit that guy in the head. If you only support teams that don't employ cheapshot artists/dirty players, you probably should find another sport.

Posted by: ablake70 |
Green did INTENTIONALLY hit that guy in the head. If you only support teams that don't employ cheapshot artists/dirty players, you probably should find another sport.

Posted by: ablake70 |

I disagree, I thought Green unintentionally hit him in the head. However, I do not support players cheap shotting others in the head, but it doesn't mean I don't support hockey.

Just like in the 30's and 40's when some baseball fans were against segregation. They thought it was horrible and inhumane, but they still liked and supported the game of baseball.

Again, I like and support hockey. However, I am 100% against players taking cheap shots to the head and find it disugsting when "fans" applaud such play.

The reasoning of "that's how it was done before" as a reason why it is okay and should not be changed is amazingly weak.

Posted by: sgm3 | December 21, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

@Steve_R

Yep, leaving in like 5 minutes. MMMMM food n beer. Nom nom nom

Posted by: SeminAllOverTheIce | December 21, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

I know I am the third man in on this fight and will undoubtedly get a game misconduct, but I just can't resist.

Several pieces of evidence that Sarge is NO Mike Commodore. First, a hit parade. Watch Commodore's utter destruction of Sean Avery entering the neutral zone. If Schultz tried this, he would break like glass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edZ8al4_HCA&playnext=1&list=PL157375EF9A197BAF&index=47

Second, a blasting of PJ Axelsson of Boston.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FOGyBh4yGc&playnext=1&list=PLA748C8DC03E2A860&index=27

And just one of many fight examples, this one vs. Matt Greene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nnBBXeyYzI&feature=related

Interestingly, Commodore and Schultz have similar physiques. But that's where the similarities end once it comes to physical play.

Posted by: coveredwithhisdust | December 21, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton-LOL

Posted by: FunkyGloveFacewash | December 21, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

4. Would you trade Shultz for Deryk Engelland?

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

In a New York second!! I'd move Poti/Hannan/Alzner to ****55's spot (and I'd look to upgrade over Hannan/Poti the first possible chance).

I'd look to add another dman, preferably prying one of McQuaid/Stuart/Hunwick/Boychuk from Boston; or any of O'Brien, Bieska, Carkner, Walker, or others of their ilk

Posted by: vermontcaps | December 21, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

4. Would you trade Shultz for Deryk Engelland?

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

In a New York second!! I'd move Poti/Hannan/Alzner to ****55's spot (and I'd look to upgrade over Hannan/Poti the first possible chance).

I'd look to add another dman, preferably prying one of McQuaid/Stuart/Hunwick/Boychuk from Boston; or any of O'Brien, Bieska, Carkner, Walker, or others of their ilk

Posted by: vermontcaps | December 21, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

ok Will, since you have no idea, I'm going to do my part.

Commodore - fiery, fiesty, physical, gritty, in your face, heavy hitter, will fight.

Schultz - the opposite.

Granted, they are both considered "defensive dmen" so in that respect, there is a little bit of comparison. So good job in at least picking out another defenseman to compare Sarge with! You could've picked a forward, for example. So don't feel too bad!

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

know I am the third man in on this fight and will undoubtedly get a game misconduct, but I just can't resist.

Several pieces of evidence that Sarge is NO Mike Commodore
---covered--

thank you. It took a non regular to help out young Will hopefully see the 'light'!

I have a headache now. So in reality, I did lose.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1:

Really? That was what you were holding back on? I thought you had some GM inside into the guy.

Schultz is an "in you way" defensemen. He breaks up plays and DOES seperate guys from the puck. Does he do it with violent hits? No. but is he effective? yes.

How does he compare with Hannan? Many like you would say" fiesty, physical, gritty, in your face" probably loved the acquisition of him even though he hasn't played a decent game in 4 years. I question your hockey judgement.

I'll give you a chance to make up for it....

Would you rather have Commodore than Shultz?

Posted by: will111 | December 21, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

@vermontcaps

Apparently Philly is trying to get rid of Walker for cap room but they have not been able to find any takers.

Posted by: sgm3 | December 21, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

I have been following this 'debate' about trades, lineups, etc and all I can say is I don't understand why all you experts are sitting in your tiny cubicles in front of your computers, rather than making major $$$ as NHL General Managers...you all are obviously so much smarter...

Posted by: Thisistheyear | December 21, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

By the way I love Erskine, but you need to get over BB's statement on top 6 dmen..he may have forgotten to mention Erskine...

Posted by: boomer44 | December 21, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

With all due respect, boomer, that statement alone should be grounds for BB's termination. I'll remind you: the head coach of an NHL team came out and rendered our only hard-nosed, overachieving dman (and 5yr Cap) a lame-duck in favor of someone who never played a game for the guys in the dressing room. (He forgot to mention #4? Huh??). Nothing could do more to undermine the value of hardwork, dedication, and perseverence to a team.

And lets not forget BB publicly saying icetime would be based on merit. That he had to say that proves that it wasn't based on play earlier (favoritism).

Posted by: vermontcaps | December 21, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Free DJ king!!

Posted by: great81 | December 21, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

what is this insane analogy between oppression of minorities and the current state of hockey? Segregation, slavery, the barn owl habitat being destroyed

violence is a part of north american hockey. Sometimes players get hurt. Part of that frenetic intensity is what makes hockey so great. And if a player says they never try to hurt another player, ask them why they're not punching each other with 20oz gloves or why they take huge runs at each other.

oh, and ask em if they have a problem with knee to knee hits. Some hypocritical fans apparently don't.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

just be thankful the fuzzy slippers didnt ignite.

They did. What were once long floppy and really cute bunny ears now look like the cropped ears of a Doberman. I can deal with the smell since it's no worse than my gloves in my hockey bag, but the whole appeal of those slippers was the cute floppy ears.

Posted by: FunkyGloveFacewash | December 21, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Cody Eakin not seeing much ice time with Team Canada. Last night in a tune up for the World Jr. tournament starting on Boxing Day, Cody was not on either power play unit. He did pick up an assist as they rolled four lines in the 8-0 trashing of Team Switzerland. In another tuneup game they take on Team Sweden tonight.

Posted by: dull | December 21, 2010 5:05 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1:

Really? That was what you were holding back on? I thought you had some GM inside into the guy.

-------------Will

you only need to provide an "inside" or "insight" when there are SUBTLE differences between players. Seeing as how your comparison lacked any merit, a simple explanation was sufficient.


"Does he do it with violent hits? No"

Good, you answered your own question. Now if you can just figure out that this exact comment from you renders your own comparison invalid, we can move on.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

@ will111

I've been following cstanton and your argument the whole way down. And not to take sides, but all you did was describe how Schultz plays. Essentially agreeing that schultz and commodore have different styles of play.

The argument wasn't about who is a better d-men. But 2006 Commodore is better than 2010 Schultz.

Also, to be fair CStanton make legit arguments against each of the players you named while your response are just along the lines of "It's so obvious."

Posted by: rderr27 | December 21, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

More on Kashirsky:

In Sunday’s win over Charlotte, Kashirsky played on an energetic fourth line with Maxime Lacroix and Trevor Bruess.

“I thought that line did a great job for us,” Bears head coach Mark French said. “They ate up some minutes that took the burden off some other guys, and they played effective minutes.”

Thanks to the holiday roster freeze, Kashirsky, at the least, will remain on Hershey’s roster through Christmas.

“When you get a chance to play on the fourth line,” Kashirsky said, “you’ve got to play that role, play it safe, kind of a hard-work, hard-nosed game.”

---------------

hmm...now if a Euro understands what it means to play on the 4th line, why can't BGordo?

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Re: Semin comps who have won a SC

Lecavalier?

Lecavalier has a similar build but is bigger (6'4, 223lb) than Semin (listed at 6'0, 180)

He's a point-producer (actually a bit lower pt/game than Semin career stats) who has also been accused of disappearing when the going gets tough and being a whiner at times

Although one difference is VL has better hit stats (almost 1 hit/g over last 2 seasons, vs. 1hit/3g for AS)

Posted by: justbrewit | December 21, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

@ kcbrichmond and SeminAllovertheice,

I'm assuming he's using the CCM Crazy Light Skates now since that's what he's advertising and they came out in October. Don't know much about them but I think they apparently changed the fit quite a bit. Think they tightened the heel a bit and widened the toe area, plus added some foam in other parts so it conforms different from their previous versions. Apparently changed how it fits foot width as well.

Either he's lost his acceleration in the off-season or something else is up with the new equipment. Maybe watch for it in tonight's game. He's been falling a lot but I've noticed it a lot when he tries to accelerate fast and the first step just doesn't seem to dig in right. Who knows, maybe the foam they are using to tighten the feel around the heel isn't stiff enough for someone who puts that much power into the first step, or the overall fit just isn't working for him. If it didn't look like he was missing so many first pushes I'd think he just put on weight in the off-season and his balance was messed up. But if a pro hockey player switches skates and starts falling all over the ice, it's more likely an equipment issue than them forgetting how to skate. I haven't checked to see how the other players using the skates have been doing with falling over.

Posted by: Stu_c | December 21, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Although one difference is VL has better hit stats (almost 1 hit/g over last 2 seasons, vs. 1hit/3g for AS)

Posted by: justbrewit

that's a big difference considering the critical weakness in semin's game is his physical play. If he was physical like Datsyuk or Vinny or Fedotenko, then he wouldn't be a lightning rod for criticism (he has some other issues as well but if he was a physical player to go with his skillset, he'd get the same consideration and respect that Ovechkin has rec'd from this fan base).

I mean if you want to throw out names, you can't ignore KEY differences. The point is to find as close to an apples for apples match as possible.

I'll excuse Will, its obvious he doesn't watch hockey.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

physical play doesn't have to be cheap shots intended to hurt a player or LAME fake fights like some of them this year.. so vermontcaps enjoy the scrubs and go find a new team.. every sport needs a gentlemany aspect to it or you just end up with mike tysons, amd other ear biters.. I hate watching small kids watch the players fight.. its teaching all wrong lessons to kids-as other sport acknowlege and thus prevent this hokey crap.
I usually notice the fake fights are being cheered on by the people who point out "high crossing checking" penalties as well as comment on Brooks Brady's point tallies.. the game itself is good enough and tough enough without men acting like kids who cant control their need to pee on their territory.

Posted by: kmr2r | December 21, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

@justbrewit

-----------------

I think this is a decent comparison. Like you said though, VL is more physical. Although, everyone in the NHL, AHL, KHL, NCAA, and any other league is more physical than him.

Semin is definitely a better scorer.

I could be wrong, but I remember seeing VL actually back checking and playing respectable defense in his own zone. I don't think this is Semin's strong point.

I think this whole argument isn't so much that there's anyone who's won a cup with a player like Semin. It's more that Semin is just about as 1-dimensional as you get. He scores goals...... and that's it. At least OV can hit too.

Posted by: rderr27 | December 21, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

physical play doesn't have to be cheap shots intended to hurt a player or LAME fake fights like some of them this year.. so vermontcaps enjoy the scrubs and go find a new team.. every sport needs a gentlemany aspect to it or you just end up with mike tysons, amd other ear biters.. I hate watching small kids watch the players fight.. its teaching all wrong lessons to kids-as other sport acknowlege and thus prevent this hokey crap.
I usually notice the fake fights are being cheered on by the people who point out "high crossing checking" penalties as well as comment on Brooks Brady's point tallies.. the game itself is good enough and tough enough without men acting like kids who cant control their need to pee on their territory.

Posted by: kmr2r | December 21, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

I'll make you a deal. You tell me why YOU think Schultz=Commodore. And then I'll be more than happy to point out why you're wrong..err..explain the differences. I'm just surprised no other regular on this board has jumped in and done it for me. "Will" may actually believe it if it comes from someone besides myself.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

sorry...I've been coming and going, away from the computer and didn't read this until now....Will, please don't ever question cstanton again; sit on the sidelines, read, and learn

Posted by: vermontcaps | December 21, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

think this whole argument isn't so much that there's anyone who's won a cup with a player like Semin. It's more that Semin is just about as 1-dimensional as you get. He scores goals...... and that's it. At least OV can hit too.

Posted by: rderr27 |

thx for the chiming in on that silly debate earlier.

But I think the question is, how much help IN THE PLAYOFFS can a largely one-dimensional player be? Esp who is counted upon to be a big part of a team's success.

I think the Caps can trade Semin, shake up their chemistry a bit and add some different elements, and become a better playoff contender. Obviously, others incl our crack front office, feel differently. Nothing would please me more than to see Semin and Sarge packaged off in a major deal that adds 2 or 3 gritty frontliners and/or top 4 D on the good side of 30 yrs old.

You get a guy like Chris Stewart or Wayne Simmonds, maybe a young Jarret Stoll type center prospect, and a 2 way defenseman who can play a rugged game. That changes your chemistry around in a hurry, adds grit to your core without sacrificing youth and much in the way of talent. Then the other remaining steps are just tweaks. I think it will have a very positive ripple effect thru the lineup.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

I hate watching small kids watch the players fight.. its teaching all wrong lessons to kids-as other sport acknowlege and thus prevent this hokey crap.

Posted by: kmr2r | December 21, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

I'm embarassed that we root for the same team....my sons, ages 6 and 10, can differentiate between sheer violence and intimidation or fighting for a teammate within the confines of a game. In fact, such appreciation for that aspect enabled my oldest to put a stop to some bullying that his best friend was enduring. I'm glad he enjoys watching hockeyfights.com w/me, and it certainly hasn't confused him or sent the "wrong message"

Posted by: vermontcaps | December 21, 2010 5:48 PM | Report abuse

every sport needs a gentlemany aspect to it
----------------------

what do you think occurs at the end of a long brutal playoff series? Teams line up and shake hands formally. Where else do you see that?

Don't project your opinion of what hockey SHOULD be about on everyone else. There is a long storied history in Canada of young kids who grow up in a certain tradition. And they embrace it. Just as their parents did. And no, that tradition isn't all about hurting each other on the ice. But it does involve a degree of grit and competitiveness that make some people apparently cringe. Those kids aren't forced into playing a sport or a style they despise. And if you don't choose to raise your competitive nature in a physical way, you have to find a different road to pro hockey. No one's saying a player like Schultz shouldn't be playing in the NHL. But he's not like the majority of junior hockey players or the ones who make it to the NHL either. The norm is not to be overly timid on the ice.

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 21, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

@cstanton1:
WOW, great back and forth tonight eh (said to up north accent)?

those Messier clips take me back... amazing how the NHL has become watered down... those hits now would make Messier (who is well loved around the NHL, except by his victim's) a repeat offender many, MANY, MANY (channeling Rhino here) times over... he was by far the dirties skilled player of his caliber in a long time...

Fav Gordie story from a Mikita interview: Stan Mikita gave Howe a blindside elbow on Howe early in his career (mikita's obviously) and flattens Howe.
Game goes on, no retaliation, game ends with no retaliation. Mikita's got his head up in their next match-up (only 6 teams then so they met alot, 12 times) and Howe doesn't find him for some retribution. Game ends, no nothing. The rest of the season's games like end with no retaliation from Howe. Mikita thinks maybe Howe's forgotten.

Two years later Mikita is circle in the neutral zone and gets lights out flattened by Howe's... Mikita wakes up with Howe hovering over him saying "I guess you'll keep your elbow down in the corners against me from now on won't you stan?" and Howe just skates away!

Mikita never elbowed him again up high!
linkage:
http://thegregger63.wordpress.com/2008/01/14/nhl%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Coriginal-four%E2%80%9D-carry-on-without-two-of-their-brethren/

Posted by: FrankM73 | December 21, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

who cant control their need to pee on their territory.

Posted by: kmr2r | December 21, 2010 5:22 PM

my daughter and her husband are in town for the holidays. they brought their 5 mo. old male puppy with them. i have a 4 yr old male that is feeling a little territorial. he's been 're-marking' his space all day long.

my point/question is this:
is there a bigger p*ssing match going on in my back yard or here on CI?

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | December 21, 2010 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Wonder if Neil, Clarkson, Thornton, Thorburn or Crombeen would have developed into the players there are if they had spent time on the Caps?

All have turned into decent NHL'ers IMO.

Posted by: StanleyCap | December 21, 2010 6:34 PM | Report abuse

@Vermont, if you think BB should have been fired for that statement, we would have coaches fired every other week...I for one want some continuity in the coaching, there is far too much turnover in th ecoaching ranks in sports in general...this is one of the best Caps teams ever, and I went to my first game in 1974... I agree we need to do something in the playoffs and we need more players with Erskine's grit in order to accomplish the next step

Posted by: boomer44 | December 21, 2010 6:57 PM | Report abuse

@boomer

The comment was yet just another gaffe by BB, but it was the straw that broke my back. It spoke both to his inability to manage players and motivate them, but whatever...

I don't have HBO and won't see 24/7, but a Bruins fan of mine (he's got no interest in the Caps or Pens whatsoever) tells me that Bylsma is coming off as a smooth, deft, and inspiring professional. As for BB, he said he's coming off as boorish and somewhat comical.

My friend is the head coach of h.s. varsity football and lacross teams, so he knows a little something about coaching in general (as do I). As knowledgeable as he is about hockey, his take on 24/7 only confirms my belief that BB must go!!

If you want continuity at the coaching level, I can only pray that it won't be BB.

Posted by: vermontcaps | December 21, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Grit--there's the pixiedust, again.

Posted by: getjiggly | December 21, 2010 7:15 PM | Report abuse

@Vermont, if you think BB should have been fired for that statement, we would have coaches fired every other week...I for one want some continuity in the coaching, there is far too much turnover in th ecoaching ranks in sports in general...this is one of the best Caps teams ever, and I went to my first game in 1974... I agree we need to do something in the playoffs and we need more players with Erskine's grit in order to accomplish the next step

Posted by: boomer44 | December 21, 2010 8:07 PM | Report abuse

Typical cstanton1 not to answer he question.

I'll ask again:

Would you rather have Commodore than Shultz?

Posted by: will111 | December 22, 2010 1:00 AM | Report abuse

DoubleAlex-The better question is, if you take those coveted skill players off their teams and put them on the Caps, would their play remain the same? How many times would Crosby would shove/slash/yap or Briere spear someone if they knew their teammates would let them get their a$$es kicked every time.

And boy does Flash look like a different player on the Avs. Going to the net and getting dirty goals. What changed?

Posted by: ablake70 | December 21, 2010 4:25 PM


contract year

Posted by: jleftwing97 | December 22, 2010 5:13 AM | Report abuse

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