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Nylander to Grand Rapids

Michael Nylander has agreed to go to AHL Grand Rapids for a conditioning stint, I'm told.

Nylander has NOT been traded. The veteran center, who has not suited up since being used sparingly in the playoffs, simply has agreed to play with the Griffins to get some game action without taking any ice time away from the Capitals' prospects in Hershey.

How Nylander performs could determine what happens next. There has been a little interest from some KHL teams, but those clubs have also expressed concern about Nylander's conditioning and ability to come in and contribute because it's been so long since his last game. This is Nylander's chance to prove he can still play, and, perhaps, facilitate a loan/trade.

The 37-year-old, by the way, did not have to clear waivers in order to be sent to Grand Rapids. He also still counts toward towards the Capitals' 23-man roster and his salary still counts against Washington's salary cap.

By Tarik El-Bashir  |  October 21, 2009; 2:26 PM ET
 
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Next: Morning roundup: passing fancy

Comments

it would seem that none of us guessed that grand rapids had the $5M cap space.

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | October 21, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

this day just changed for the better

Posted by: _stevo | October 21, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Grand Rapids is a good... what?

Posted by: _Mark | October 21, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

My hopeful guess is that someone's interested in him, but wants to see if he can still play after all of his pressbox playing time. I hope I hope I hope.

Posted by: caprat27 | October 21, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

I don't think it's a good idea for his to be playing. What if he gets injured then we are proper fooked.

Posted by: redskins2448 | October 21, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Him...not his.

Posted by: redskins2448 | October 21, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

@redskins2448

Is an injured Nylander really any less useful than the one we have now? The way I see it, this can only get better.

Posted by: nicko | October 21, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

That seems weird. Why wouldn't he go to Hershey for conditioning? hmm. Isn't Grand Rapids the AHL affiliate of the Red Wings. Not to start a rumor, but I wonder if something could be happening with the Red Wings with regards to Nylander. Of course if it is later reported that he is being lent...If he is being lent or is at the AHL level he doesn't count against the cap right?

Posted by: BetterOffWithFedorov | October 21, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

redskins2448:
I don't think it's a good idea for his to be playing. What if he gets injured then we are proper fooked.

the only positive that can be gained from an injury to nyls is LTIR cap space. i'm surprised GMGM didn't order double shifts for him against tor earlier this year.

fwiw - i hope nyls can find a place where he will be happy to play.

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | October 21, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

@redskins2448

Nobody wants to see the guy injured, but if it did happen to the extent that he could go on LTIR, then we have instant cap relief - so I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Posted by: yosemite_sam | October 21, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Nyles to Detroit...?? We can only hope!

Posted by: capshoss | October 21, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

He didn't have to clear waivers...GMGM would have traded him for a used puck bag.

Posted by: chatton | October 21, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Im guessing he isnt going to hershey because they have no room or is there some contract issue there. Grand Rapids is detroits AHL team, is going to Hockeytown? probably not, they would have to dump about 2.5mil in cap space and i cant see the caps taking on players worth that much, there is just no room on the roster, though if they want to send Kronwall this way im fine with that (he is at 3mil for three more seasons and then is UFA).

Posted by: QuintenD | October 21, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

BetterOffWithFedorov:
based on what tarik posted - i think he is being 'lent' to grand rapids as opposed to being sent to hershey where i think he would 'have' to clear waivers. maybe det has some scouts/mngmt that some khl clubs trust to evalute nyls

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | October 21, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Well let's just hope Nylander impresses somebody out there...anybody.

Posted by: caprat27 | October 21, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

And the weird situation gets even more weird. Hopefully this ends well for Nyls and his family.

Posted by: ThePat | October 21, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

What if he breaks his leg? Is he off the books? Calling Ogie Ogelthorpe.....

Posted by: SA-Town | October 21, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Wow, this is ridiculous! They don't want to take ice time away from Keith Aucoin? Give me a break!

Posted by: ablake70 | October 21, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Obviously the Red Wings have great scouts in Sweden...but you'd think the Swedes already know everything they need to about Nylander.

Posted by: ThePat | October 21, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

It is a tryout for Red Wings

Posted by: CodePoetry | October 21, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

@ CodePoetry I hope so, but do the Redwings have the cap space?

Posted by: ablake70 | October 21, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

As I said yesterday, play him so you can set up a trade. Send him through the waiver wire with the deal in place so the other team only has to pay 1/2 of his salary and the Caps get some salary cap relief. Some did not agree with me, well looks like the team is moving in that direction.

Posted by: RichC3 | October 21, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

How does this move tie into the CBA? How does this work since he hasn't been injured and/on IR? Wouldn't waivers have to be applied for him to be sent down? Why wouldn't he be sent down to Hershey?

Ok, he needs to be sent to Grand Rapids for conditioning. He's been healthy and been participating in full contact drills since the start of training camp.

Fleischmann is ready to come back from LTIR next week and play and he hasn't even been allowed to have contact drills since August Prior to that - no exercised since the end of last season because he was on blood thinners.

Come on TEB, there's a story here and your not getting to the bottom of it. Walk over to Bob Woodruff's desk and get some pointers!

Posted by: puckman | October 21, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Well, Franzen is a $5.5m hit and he's out for what? two or three months? They are short a center now and however the pay ratios work for games, etc. (I know there are experts out there) he could fit in during Franzen's out time. The Wings also, not counting Johan, have about $2.8 in space...and, what happened to Hudler? Considering that the NMC is void next year (right?) they could move Nyls elsewhere.

Very interesting.

Posted by: saintex | October 21, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

I'll say this, if Nyls ends up in Detroit on the 2nd line (Pavel runs the first, right) there's a very good chance he'll be successful, methinks.

Posted by: saintex | October 21, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Cap space from Franzen @ LTIR?

Posted by: Rambutan_ru | October 21, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

grind him down until he gives in out of pure misery- stay classy, capitals!

Posted by: lylewimbledon | October 21, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

RichC3:
i believe his NMC includes him agreeing to be placed on waivers - which means any team can pick him up. that is probably not in his best interests. the only way that works is if 28 other teams agree not to pluck him

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | October 21, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

My point with referencing Fleischmann is that I'm sure he'll be put in the line-up either for next week's Philly game or the Isle game without any minor league conditioning stint.

Posted by: puckman | October 21, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

do the Redwings have the cap space

No, but some convoluted multi-player trade can follow. Don't forget, folks, it is exactly what we are talking about trading someone to Western Conference.

Posted by: CodePoetry | October 21, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

circles = Red Wings

Posted by: CodePoetry | October 21, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

I just got word that Nylander will finally skate on Verizon ice on January 19th.

Posted by: saintex | October 21, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Anyone have a link to "Griffins Insider" so we can read their fans kvetching?

Posted by: oldtimehockey | October 21, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Maybe the Wings are interested in Nyls, which would say a lot about the Caps organization. He's good enough to play for the 2008 Stanley Cup Champions and the defending Western Conference champions but not good enough to unseat Keith Aucoin?

Posted by: ablake70 | October 21, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Oh wait, Zetterberg and Pavel...third line? on the RW somewhere?

Posted by: saintex | October 21, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

The conditioning stint (if I read correctly) could be used if a player has not played in a game in a certain period of time regardless of if they were "injured" or not.

C'mon GMGM, trade Nyls and Detroit's choice of the current D (minus Green) for Kronwall. Yes I know this probably isn't going to happen a man can dream right?

Posted by: pkendrick | October 21, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Man- wouldn't Kronwell fit nicely here in a trade?

Posted by: lylewimbledon | October 21, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

@ablake70 - Keep in mind that this is not all about the Capitals. We want our Bears players to continue to get as much ice time as possible, so that they, too, can have a successful season. Putting Nylander over there would disrupt that team. I'm glad to see him going to the Griffins for conditioning - they aren't a bad team, and who knows; it could lead someplace really good for us!

Posted by: irockthered | October 21, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

OK, actually, I take it back about the Griffins being a good team. They WERE a good team last season; this season, they are sitting at 1-4-0-0 with a whopping two points in five games. Ugh! The only team with a worse record than theirs is the Chicago Wolves (1-5-0-0).

Still... maybe Nylander can help this struggling team out of the basement!

Posted by: irockthered | October 21, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

From the CBA:

Conditioning Loan. Unless a Player consents, he shall not be Loaned on a
Conditioning Loan to a minor league club. Such Conditioning Loan shall not extend for
more than fourteen (14) consecutive days. The Commissioner may take whatever steps
he deems necessary to investigate the circumstances under which a Player is Loaned on a Conditioning Loan. If the Commissioner has reason to believe or determines that the Club has used the Conditioning Loan to evade the Re-Entry Waivers, or otherwise Circumvent any provision of this Agreement, he may take such disciplinary action against the Club, as he deems appropriate. The Player shall continue, during the period of such Conditioning Loan, to receive the same Paragraph 1 NHL Salary, and be entitled
to the same benefits, that he would have received had he continued to play with the Club.

So the next move is in less than 2 weeks.

Posted by: ThePat | October 21, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

@irockthered, and remember that the Wolves signed Cheli yesterday.

Posted by: oldtimehockey | October 21, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

@Capt_Kirk_in_AZ - He would need to clear waivers to be sent to the AHL/Russia/Sweden/Timbucktoo (excluding his current "conditioning" trip) but to be traded to another NHL team he does not have to clear waivers.

Posted by: pkendrick | October 21, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

img.logo
{
float: left;
}



Ovechkin's interview after the morning skate, Oct. 21, 2009

DON LYDSTROM
My wife was weeping before she fell asleep, she told me about your situation in DC
I saw my caporegimes to the house, and it is midnight. So, consigliore of mine, I think you should tell your Don what everyone knows.

NYLANDER
(quietly)
I didn't tell mama anything. I was about to call you and wake you and tell you. Just now.


DON LYDSTROM
But you need a drink first.

NYLANDER
Yes.

DON LYDSTROM
Now you've had your drink.

Pause.

NYLANDER
They keep me riding the pine.
(pause)
I am dead.

Can you tell Kenny to trade for me?

Pause.

DON LYDSTROM
You have to go though Grand Rapids.

NYLANDER
But Don...

DON LYDSTROM
Shut up, will you? This is final. Don't call me again here. Holmstrom will contact you.

Posted by: CodePoetry | October 21, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

What in God's name is a "Griffin?"

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

others pointed this out on Japers, but grand rapids is short on C, so if they get to borrow a player like Nylander at no cost to them, it makes sense

http://griffinshockey.com/team/roster/

I highly doubt this has anything to do with the wings, and more to do with giving Nyls a chance to showcase himself without taking time away from Bears players.

Posted by: SombreroGuy | October 21, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

@oldtimehockey - Had not heard that; good to know.

Posted by: irockthered | October 21, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SombreroGuy | October 21, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

@tominfl1 - It's a weird spelling of gryphon. Same critter. :-P Maybe if they spelled it normally, they'd have a better record this year!!!

But yes, that's the way Grand Rapids spells it.

Posted by: irockthered | October 21, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

When I made my earlier post the article from Tarik consisted of the first sentence only. Hence my confusion and questions.

Now that the article has been updated and contains more information it makes more sense. I assume there is a scout there that will evaluate Nylander's play.

I wish Nylander good luck.

Posted by: BetterOffWithFedorov | October 21, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

No, but some convoluted multi-player trade can follow. Don't forget, folks, it is exactly what we are talking about trading someone to Western Conference.

Posted by: CodePoetry

So you think the Caps would send Nyls and Semin to the Redwings? And when Semin and Nyls are on TV skating the Cup at the Joe what will the Caps fans say then?

Posted by: ablake70 | October 21, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

pkendrick:
agreed - i was just addressing the comment Send him through the waiver wire with the deal in place so the other team only has to pay 1/2 of his salary

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | October 21, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffin

"...The griffin (griffon or gryphon (see below)) is a legendary creature with the body of a lion and the head and wings of an eagle. As the lion was traditionally considered the king of the beasts and the eagle was the king of the birds, the griffin was thought to be an especially powerful and majestic creature. Griffins are normally known for guarding treasure.[1] In antiquity it was a symbol of divine power and a guardian of the divine.[2]..."

There ya go!

Posted by: MetalCapsFan | October 21, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

From the Griffins website:

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. – The Washington Capitals on Wednesday assigned center Michael Nylander (NEE-lan-duhr) to the Grand Rapids Griffins for a two-week conditioning stint.

Nylander, 37, has appeared in 920 NHL games for Washington, the New York Rangers, Boston, Chicago, Tampa Bay, Calgary and Hartford during his 19-year career, totaling 679 points (209-470—679) and 468 penalty minutes. The Stockholm, Sweden, native has yet to play this season after totaling 33 points (9-24—33) and 32 PIM in 72 games with the Capitals last season.

Nylander is expected to practice with the Griffins at 10:30 a.m. Thursday at Van Andel Arena and be in the lineup on Friday when they host their home opener against the Abbotsford Heat at 7 p.m.

As for that blog you mentioned wanting:

http://www.mlive.com/griffins/

No comments yet.

Posted by: irockthered | October 21, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Capt_Kirk_in_AZ - Gotcha

Posted by: pkendrick | October 21, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

@ablake70 - Keep in mind that this is not all about the Capitals. We want our Bears players to continue to get as much ice time as possible, so that they, too, can have a successful season. Putting Nylander over there would disrupt that team. I'm glad to see him going to the Griffins for conditioning - they aren't a bad team, and who knows; it could lead someplace really good for us!

Posted by: irockthered | October 21, 2009 3:25 PM

I meant bringing Aucoin up to the Caps instead of playing Nylander.

Posted by: ablake70 | October 21, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

How did SEMIN get into this discussion?

The man is ill, not being traded!

JEEZ, expect a little honesty and integrity from our team already!

FWIW, the one practice between two could be that he felt better, pushed himself, and relapsed. I don't know anyone who's EVER done a thing like that, do you? ;-)

Posted by: irockthered | October 21, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

It is also possible Detroit wants Neuvirth with Nylander, how do you think?

Posted by: Rambutan_ru | October 21, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

I hope wherever Nyls ends up, he lights it up so all the n00b fans who never saw him play until 2008 can quit whining about how terrible he is.

Posted by: CapsChick | October 21, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

@ irockthered You missed the argument earlier about Semin being traded to a western conference team.

Posted by: ablake70 | October 21, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

So you think the Caps would send Nyls and Semin to the Redwings? And when Semin and Nyls are on TV skating the Cup at the Joe what will the Caps fans say then?

Posted by: ablake70 | October 21, 2009 3:37 PM

I would say the same things I said when I saw Larry Murphy hoisting the Cup and when I saw Scott Stevens hoisting the Cup (can't repeat them here).

Had the Caps kept Stevens and Murphy - at least two Cups maybe three. Stevens alone would have prevented the 3-1 series lead meltdowns against the Pens.

Thx for info on "griffin." Now Nylander is a mystical creature. I wonder what is the Swedish translation of "griffin?"

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

@Rambutan_ru

I wouldnt give up Neuvirth. Fundamentally sound goalies like him tend to have longer careers than the freak athlete goalies that aren't as fundamentally sound like Varly. Would trade Varly first. Just my opinion so the rest of the board don't flip out.

Posted by: ThePat | October 21, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

I hope wherever Nyls ends up, he lights it up so all the n00b fans who never saw him play until 2008 can quit whining about how terrible he is.


Way too many n00bs around these parts.

Posted by: CapsandRavens | October 21, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

*rolls eyes*

As if we didn't need more reasons to have our discussions revolve around Nylander. I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'm glad something different is happening for a change.

Posted by: Raber | October 21, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure this will open a can of worms, but why isn't Nylander playing? I saw him play with the Caps a little while back, and he didn't look so bad. He wasn't scoring, but he did pass the puck around pretty well. So what's up?

Posted by: coastallp74 | October 21, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

SAGODJUR

Posted by: CodePoetry | October 21, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

c'mon people, let's not be ridiculous the Caps aren't trading Semin or Neuvirth.

Posted by: SombreroGuy | October 21, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

I hope wherever Nyls ends up, he lights it up so all the n00b fans who never saw him play until 2008 can quit whining about how terrible he is.


Way too many n00bs around these parts.

Posted by: CapsandRavens | October 21, 2009 3:48 PM

I hope he does well too. I just don't want the 4+ mil wrapped up in his contract anymore.

Posted by: Raber | October 21, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

@SombreroGuy

You have too much logic involved in your statements.

Posted by: ThePat | October 21, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure this will open a can of worms, but why isn't Nylander playing? I saw him play with the Caps a little while back, and he didn't look so bad. He wasn't scoring, but he did pass the puck around pretty well. So what's up?

Posted by: coastallp74 | October 21, 2009 3:49 PM

Hasn't been fitting into our organization well. Also spoke out (mildly) against the coach and general manager. Also there were rumors that something happened during the playoffs last year between him and the organization that led to the Caps wanting to sever ties.

Honestly, as a hockey player, he's fine. He's just not right for us - definitely not at his current price tag.

Posted by: Raber | October 21, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

This whole thing will end 14 days or less from now with McPhee saying, "There was a potential trade partner out there who wanted to see Michael play first...and shortly after they backed out."

Posted by: caprat27 | October 21, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

@ThePat

I suspect Michal will not have much icetime next year here in DC. And we have Holtby also. And it is possible to get some vet goalie in the summer. Or even resign Theo for a year more. It is just early to give up on Varly. So Neuvirth's chances aren't good here probably.

I ment we can try to get something back for Nyl+Neu. Some value. If they want to.

Posted by: Rambutan_ru | October 21, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Nylander still practiced everyday with the Caps, so it's not like he couldn't get injured then. Only makes sense to give him some game time even it is with minor leaguers.

Posted by: slowser | October 21, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

How many teams really have the space or want a 37 year old center. If GMGM does call around the other teams probably will let him go through waivers. Other wise no team has any incentive to pick him up with his salary unless they are in big injury trouble, maybe even Boston with Savard out for a couple of months, might as well start another rumor.lol

Posted by: RichC3 | October 21, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

If Nylander wins the Cup with Detroit - i will say good for him - he found a team in which he fits in the system - it's not THE CAPS!

Posted by: lylewimbledon | October 21, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

From last thread...

Umm, people, please put down the crack pipe. Exactly how would the Caps replace the 30-40 goals Semin will score this year? Exactly, they won't, so he's not moving anywhere, at least not til the trade deadline when the team will have a much better idea of his plans for next season. If it looks like he'll bolt for the KHL, and the Caps unthinkably end up in a position to miss the playoffs, then he'll get dealt to a playoff bound team. Otherwise, he stays put.

Also, looks like Aucoin is on his way back to DC:

http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2009/10/looks_like_washington_has_reca.html

Posted by: MetalCapsFan | October 21, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I would have liked to see Nyls play too. Could have been interesting with the other newbies on the team. Sometimes it just takes a slight change to spark a guy. Obviously it's more of an internal conflict that I have no grounds to speak of. Oh well.

Posted by: cappies | October 21, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Anyone here know enough about the Red Wings to compare/contrast Boudreau's and Babcock's systems? Yeah, Detroit plays puck posession, but the Caps do as well, at least part of the time. Realizing that the personnel is different, part of me hopes that the systems employed are similar enough to make a good judgement on what Nylander has in the tank, should he make it to Detroit that is. If the styles of play are apples to apples, and Nylander flourished, it would very clearly point to the fact that some petty nonsense was going on behind the scenes. McPhee/Eminger, McPhee/Nylander, McPhee/who's next? Purely speculation, but benching people ala the Raiders saga with Al Davis/Marcus Allen due to personal differences is not a good way to conduct biz.

Posted by: MetalCapsFan | October 21, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

I am surprised Pittsburgh did not snatch Nylander up!

Posted by: JohnWWW | October 21, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

At a minimum, I have to think that Nyls can still be an effective PP center in the NHL.

As long as it's not in Pissburgh, I'm ok with Nyls going anywhere.

Posted by: pch49 | October 21, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

What SYSTEM do the Caps play? Get the puck to Ovi so he can score a lot of goals? Make sure a top 6 forward stays back to play defense so Greenie can join the rush and score goals? For all this talk about the system all I see is pond hockey. The difference between this year and last are more odd man rushes, more breakaway chances on the PP, more time spent in their own zone during the PP, and more guys in the bottom six who can't handle the puck and can't score. Thank goodness Fedorov is gone :)

Posted by: ablake70 | October 21, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I hate to say this, but isn't an injury a good scenario? Putting him on IR temporary frees up cap space.

Posted by: C-way | October 21, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

@JohnWWW - What, and give Crosby competition? ;-)

They couldn't anyway; he does not have to clear waivers for a conditioning stint.

Posted by: irockthered | October 21, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

It's almost as hard to trade a player who hasn't appeared in a game in over six months as it is to trade an injured player. He's already counting against the cap. The injury risk is negligible, considering these facts.

Also, a claiming team would only get him at a 50% discount if he's claimed on re-entry waivers, right? I don't think there's a discount when a player is placed on waivers for assignment.

Posted by: JohninMpls | October 21, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

I have placed a call to Jeff Gillooly...I'll keep you posted.

Posted by: pachanga74 | October 21, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

@JohninMpls - yes 50% on re-entry waivers but for that to happen Nyls would have to agree to be put on waivers to be sent down to Hershey or loaned to the KHL and then brought back later.

He does not have to clear any waivers for this conditioning stint.

Posted by: pkendrick | October 21, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

@ablake-
I don't know where you play pond hockey, but I'd like to buy a ticket to watch it

Posted by: Chad8 | October 21, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

to try and clear up some confusion, the best case scenario for the Caps at the moment is to trade Nylander for future considerations (like a 7th round pick) and clear the cap space that way.

Since few NHL teams have the cap space or desire to bring on Nylander at his cap hit, it is far more likely that Nylander has been sent to Grand Rapids to be showcased for loan to teams over season. SEL, KHL, Swiss league...whatever.

Nylander's no movement clause expires after this season, so any loan will likely be for this season only.

Even if Nylander gets loaned, he remains Caps property and the Caps are responsible for paying his salary, but could be compensated by the team receiving him via loan.

If Nylander is still Caps property next season (meaning he has not been traded, only loaned), he'll get waived, and if unclaimed by another NHL team, sent to Hershey where he'll come off the Caps salary cap hit. The Caps would still be responsible for paying him the 3 million he is due for the final year of his contract if he chooses to report.

It is very likely that Nylander would not wish to play in the AHL for a full season and may choose to retire, or simply refuse to report and sign a deal in Europe, in which case he would be suspended and the Caps would be free of both salary and salary cap hit. Nylander likely wouldn't be able to make back the full 3 million, but he may be happier playing in Europe which would make up for it.

In any event, Nylander's cap hit shouldn't be a problem next year. How it occurs is up for speculation at this point.

Things thatt should not be speculated:

The Caps will not trade Semin, Neuvirth or any other vital piece of the Caps future to rid themselves of Nylander. The only scenario this MIGHT happen is if Nyls is till strangling the Caps salary cap at the trade deadline, and even that would have to yield some serious return.

Posted by: SombreroGuy | October 21, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

also, an oft referenced write up on japers on this whole subject

http://www.japersrink.com/2009/6/15/906639/a-potential-nylander-move-to-the

Posted by: SombreroGuy | October 21, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

@ SombreroGuy - agreed on Semin and Neuvy.

Also Nyls contract scenario sounds somewhat like the Jagr deal that Ted and the Caps got burned on. The irony is that Jagr apparently is/was working to get Nyls to the KHL....

Posted by: pch49 | October 21, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

would say the same things I said when I saw Larry Murphy hoisting the Cup and when I saw Scott Stevens hoisting the Cup (can't repeat them here).

Had the Caps kept Stevens and Murphy - at least two Cups maybe three. Stevens alone would have prevented the 3-1 series lead meltdowns against the Pens.

Thx for info on "griffin." Now Nylander is a mystical creature. I wonder what is the Swedish translation of "griffin?"

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

we went further in the playoffs with Larry Murphy OUT of the lineup than with him in it. He was not the kind of defenseman we needed at the time. We played in the Patrick Division, the league was different, we needed to compete against teams like the Rangers, Flyers and Devils. Rouse was a better fit on our team than was Murphy and he proved it in the short time he was here. He was an instrumental addition to our defense, the same way Dino was an instrumental addition to our offense. Had we kept Stevens, there is no guarantee we would have won any Cups. The team was being dismantled over the Gtown incident and we wouldve lost both Courtnall and Dino, 2 real keys to our team. The biggest benefit (besides the obvious) to holding onto Stevens was his effect on Kevin Hatcher. Hatcher became a very different player once Stevens exited.

as a sidenote: you can also think about the effect Stevens had on the St Louis Blues. Their GM Ron Caron for years had been trying to land #3. He even got interviewed by Al Koken on HTS a few yrs prior and stated that the player he admired the most in the NHL was Scott Stevens. Not bad praise coming from a guy who had 6 Cup rings courtesy of his stint with the Canadiens. In his first season with the Blues, Stevens took them from last place to 2nd place overall in the NHL. Thats gotta be the largest turnaround in NHL history. And then of course they signed Shanahan and an arbitrator awarded Stevens to the Devils and the rest is history. Stevens initially refused to play for the Devils but ended up changing his mind eventually.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

I liked Bob Rouse but anyone who thinks he was a better fit for any team than Larry Murphy should have his head examined. Larry Murphy is in the hall of fame, Rouse never even made an all star team.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

@CS.....dead wrong about Murphy, he only went on to win 4 Cups, play the second most games in NHL history, I think 2 or 3rd all time scoring for a defenseman for Rouse, who I loved as a stay at home dman but the only way he gets into Hall of Fame is to pay the admission charge. Dino for Gartner, was a good trade. I am guessing you are one of the people that booed Murphy here and help his exit.

Posted by: RichC3 | October 21, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

I liked Bob Rouse but anyone who thinks he was a better fit for any team than Larry Murphy should have his head examined. Larry Murphy is in the hall of fame, Rouse never even made an all star team.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

maybe you should get your head examined. Again, I gave the reasons I feel that Rouse was a better fit for the team at the time based on the kinds of teams we had to get thru to advance in the playoffs. What is your reasoning besides the tired old "Murph went onto to win cups with other teams" cliche. Did you ever watch Rouse with Minnesota, or the Caps etc? I watched Murphy play on every team he ever got traded to. On some teams he was a good fit, on other teams he was not. Players don't exist nor play in a vacuum. There are many other parameters that make a player successful, but to assume that you can simply plug a player onto any roster in any situation and expect that player to be a huge asset or make an equivalent contribution, thats just naive. You could even make that case with Jagr. He wasn't a very good fit with us despite all his past successes with Pittsburgh and future success with the Rangers.

By the way, most defensive defensemen don't make all-star teams. That's not how all-star voting tends to go. Its usually based on points from the blueline. And in spite of all the points he put up, I don't think Larry Murphy himself ever cracked an all-star lineup as a starter.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

you ever watch Larry Murphy in the 1987 Canada Cup? I rest my case.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

larry murphy didnt make the hall of fame based upon his play in dc. caps were a defensive minded team and murph just didnt fit in. he was not as bad on d as people may remember. its just his gaffe's would come at critical times and he became a bit of a scapegoat for the teams failures in the playoffs. it sort of snowballed to the point where every mistake was met with whoops despite some great moments (see hunter, dale breakaway in ot game 7 v flyers)...

btw, rouse ended up winning a cup w/ detroit...so it worked out good for him too.

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 21, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

@CS.....dead wrong about Murphy, he only went on to win 4 Cups, play the second most games in NHL history, I think 2 or 3rd all time scoring for a defenseman for Rouse, who I loved as a stay at home dman but the only way he gets into Hall of Fame is to pay the admission charge. Dino for Gartner, was a good trade. I am guessing you are one of the people that booed Murphy here and help his exit.

Posted by: RichC3 | October 21, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

I was one of about 12000 fans who booed Murphy on any given night.
At least I can tell you watched hockey back then. We can agree to disagree about Murphy v Rouse. My overall point is, some players are better fits for certain teams than others. Its not an apples to apples rouse v murphy comparison. Moreso a -- how does a Rouse fit into the current NEEDS and chemistry of a Caps team at that point in time. He fit in very well, made us stronger defensively, and we didn't miss Murphy's points from the blueline until we ran into the conf finals against Boston and were playing without Hatcher and Stevens had a bum shoulder. But we wouldn't have gone that far without the trade that sent Garts/Murph for Rouse/Dino. They gave us intangibles that the Caps never had with Murphy and Garts. Stuff that doesn't show up on the scoresheet. With Rouse, Langway, Stevens and Hatcher, there wasn't a better 4-dep DEFENSIVE lineup in hockey, and we needed that more than we needed the skills that a Larry Murphy brought to the table. AT the time.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Again I liked Rouse and thought that trading him in the deal for Al Iafrate was th worst deal David Poile ever made.. but he was no Larry Murphy.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Rouse, Langway, Stevens and Hatcher, there wasn't a better 4-dep DEFENSIVE lineup in hockey, and we needed that more than we needed the skills that a Larry Murphy brought to the table. AT the time.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

I see your idea of defense corp... I bet you thought Bobby Orr was a bad defenseman... LMAO

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Sombrero Guy, good to see you back. Your analysis is largely correct, but a few things about the possible loand to Europe and next year. First, as was discussed earlier, he should go through waivers on the way to Europe. (I usually change planes in Philly, but...) While its unlikely anyone want him, they would be getting him for half price. He's not worth 5 mil, but maybe 2.5? Likely, no; possible, yes. After this year, in addition to those scenarios, I believe he can be bought out as well.

Posted by: oldtimehockey | October 21, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

you ever watch Larry Murphy in the 1987 Canada Cup? I rest my case.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Yes, and what a strong case you have presented. Bravo.


btw, rouse ended up winning a cup w/ detroit...so it worked out good for him too.

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 21, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

cool, i just thought he was a bum who couldn't buy his way onto an nhl roster. The NHL allstar argument made by JoeK shows absolutely no knowledge of this game whatsoever. There were a ton of GREAT defensive defensemen in the last 20 yrs who wouldn't come within sniffing distance of an all-star game because of the way this game is marketed.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

I see your idea of defense corp... I bet you thought Bobby Orr was a bad defenseman... LMAO

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

your credibility is fading my friend. Almost any org in hockey (except maybe Calgary with a young MacInnis and Suter) would have taken those 4 as their defensive lynchpins at that time. Hatcher was a solid force back then, Rouse was one of the youngest team captains in hockey with MN prior to the trade, and I shouldnt' have to explain Langway and Stevens to you should I?

ftr, Bobby Orr and players like Bourque and Chelios could actually play rugged and effective DEFENSE. So don't compare Murphy to those guys.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

cstanton1,

you are one of those morons who think there's only one way to play the game. you need all kinds of different types of playaers to win. you need a highly skilled defenseman like Murphy as well as a strong defensive defenseman like Langway.

the Caps already had Langway, Stevens and Hatcher... why in the would you need another one just like them???

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

I'll pose a question. Since there is a frequent discussion on this board about players, I'm just curious -- would any of you have reversed the trade we made to get Dale Hunter? Considering the Nordiques used our pick to draft Joe Sakic?

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

The Caps will not trade Semin, Neuvirth or any other vital piece of the Caps future to rid themselves of Nylander.

It's just ludicrous even to say that someone had a thought like that.

However, if Caps have decided not to sign Semin, he and Nyls could be packaged together to kill two birds with one stone.

Posted by: CodePoetry | October 21, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

cstanton1,

you are one of those morons who think there's only one way to play the game. you need all kinds of different types of playaers to win. you need a highly skilled defenseman like Murphy as well as a strong defensive defenseman like Langway.

the Caps already had Langway, Stevens and Hatcher... why in the would you need another one just like them???

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

i love how you're calling me a moron in the same breath that you imply that the Caps had no highly skilled defensemen. Again, let me introduce you to Kevin Hatcher and Scott Stevens you *&^@$. And then we added Calle a year later. You mean to tell me you think that Hatcher, Calle and Stevens don't fit your definition of skilled defensemen? Stevens even outscored Murphy in their last full season together. And Murphy was having a pretty dismal year on a strong team the year we dealt him.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

the Caps already had Langway, Stevens and Hatcher... why in the would you need another one just like them???

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Langway was a defensive defenseman. Stevens and Hatcher were TWO-WAY defensemen. Yeah you're right JoeK, you would never need anyone else like that. Ok, no more polluting the board with this dead horse, I said my piece.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

I will stand by what I said. If the Caps had kept BOTH Murphy and Stevens, and Gartner for that matter, they would have won 2 or 3 Cups in the 90s.

A team with Scott Stevens wouldn't need Bob Rouse to win the Cup. Geez, we also had Langway for a time (we could've won in 91) and Calle Jo all those years (an exceptional positional defenseman) and we never would've had Rouse to trade for Iafrate to trade for Juneau (better off) and we could've still sent Hatcher for Tinordi.

Stevens, Tinordi, Murphy, Langway, Calle Jo, Joe Reekie and Sheehy. You don't think Caps could've won with those guys? Three HoFmers on the blueline and we couldn't've won? No, cstanton, you are wrong on this one.

Put it to a vote of the good posters here - cstanton or tominfl1 on this one. Cast your votes and don't leave chads!

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Back to the subject at hand (and let's quit the name calling boys and girls).

It should be clear that Grand Rapids mgmt was under intense pressure from its fan base to counteract Chicago's signing of Chelios.

It's as plain to me as the nose on Milan Jurcina's face.

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

cstanton1,

you're a fraud... Scott Stevens was NEVER as skilled as Larry Murphy on the offensive end. he had a pretty good shot, that was about it. yes, he had some good offensive numbers when he was with the Caps. Stevens couldn't make the kinda pass Murphy made to Hunter to score the most famous goal in the history of the Caps.

Kevin Hatcher didnt' have much of an offensive game at the time of that trade.. it was developed later.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

It's Fantasyland day!

There's at best marginal interest in Nylander in the Russian league, but the Red Wings want him? F-ing hilarious!

And Cstanton - I see you are back on the Rouse was better than Murphy wagon. Are you also a birther? A tea-bagger? Death-panelist?

Posted by: zmega | October 21, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

cstanton: Yes, I would also reverse the Dale Hunter trade in a nanosecond if it meant getting Sakic. That would have meant (along with keeping Stevens, Murphy and Gartner and still trading "No D" Kevin Hatcher for Tinordi) at least 3 Cups maybe 4.

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

to this day Larry Murphy was the best QB on the PP that the Caps have ever had. They used to use Stevens as a screener on the PP sometimes.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

I'm not one of those people who thinks that the Caps got the short end of the stick on the Dale Hunter trade. Because I was actually following the team at that time and knew how inept they were on drafting players... Reggie Savage, Jeff Greenlaw, Yvon Corriveau... should I go on?? LOL

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

and lots of teams passed on Joe Sakic who turned out to be the best player of that draft.... it's just revisionist to history to say that the Caps got Hunter for Sakic.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Stevens had like 16 goals one year, but if I remember he got a bunch on the PP when Brian Murphy stationed him in front of the goal.

Murphy was clearly the better offensive player. Stevens was the most dominant force defensively for about a dozen years or so. Chelios and Bourque were more rounded players perhaps, but no one in hockey had the defensive presence of Stevens. And what did we get for Stevens? A bust LW in 91; Gonchar in 92; Brendan Witt in 93; Baumgartner I think in 94; and Mikko Elomo in 95. OK, Gonch did give us ShaMo and Schultz and Witt yielded Neuvirth, but that was/is well after the time period in which (91-2000) we could have won those 2, 3 or 4 Cups (4 if you had Sakic).

New Jersey never would have won IMO if they kept Shanahan and not gotten Stevens. Brodeur and Shanny don't win the Cup with Ken Danyko.

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Kind of a random thought, but are the Caps going to get a third jersey?

I was looking on NHL.com and more and more teams are getting them!

I want the caps to get a third jersey!

Posted by: digster1013 | October 21, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

@oldtime:If you pick him up on waivers he is all yours, full price no discount. Half price is through re-entry waivers and that won't happen. Next year if we buy him out there would be a cap hit so why bother? Send him to Hershey, he goes and becomes a player/mentor or he refuses and we don't pay anything, but either way, no cap hit. This is why we did not buy him out this year.
Detroit wants Nyls about as much as we want Chelios, aint gonna happen.
GR Blog re Nyls
http://www.mlive.com/griffins/index.ssf/2009/10/capitals_assign_michael_nylade.html

Posted by: majiksea | October 21, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

And the worst part about Gartner and Murphy (2 HoFers) for Dino and Rouse is that Dino was traded for Kevin Miller who then got traded for Paul Cavallini. He might've then got moved for someone who we then traded in 96 or 97 for Andrei Nikolishin. Meanwhile, Rouse netted Iafrate who netted Juneau - a one-year wonder.

Dino at least was a great, hard-nosed player (and my favorite then) and him being on the team softened all that until Poile DUMPED him for Kevin Miller, who was benched after just a few games by Terry Murray.

Poile's claim to fame was the deal he made a few months into the job (Ryan Walter and Rick Green for Langway, Laughlin, Engblom and Jarvis I think). Other good deals included Carpenter for Ridley and Kelly Miller, getting Calle Jo and Reekie for picks and getting Tinordi for Hatcher. The low points of Poile's stewardship were the deal with Minnesota and all those first round busts. Remember trading Dmitri Kristich for a #4 overall to Kings and using it for a bust named Volchkov? Trading Ridley to TOR to move up six spots from 16th to 10th in the 1st Rd to take Nolan Baumgartner?

OK, the deal to Boston to get Oates. Was that Poile? I think, and maybe a good deal. Oates was very good but so was Jason Allison, the guy we traded. We also got Tocchet for a few games in that one and one year of Billy Ranford.

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

I can't wait for a new post to come out so we can stop arguing over ancient history... oh wait, it'll just continue there anyway LOL

Posted by: Chad8 | October 21, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Scott Stevens was a great player, one of the all time best but I watched him play hundred of games... he was prone to turnovers in his zone, a lot more often than Murphy... but since he was also prone to delivering great hits most Caps fans turned a blind eye on his mistakes.

also in his youger years he was suckered into lots of needless fights that left the Caps in bad situations.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

@MetalCapsFan: As a Wings fan who grew up near DC and also likes the Caps I am the one who can compare them for you.

The Caps get a large amount of their goals from the rush while Detroit works a lot more in the zone possession plays. The Red Wings use their playmaking abilities much more then the Caps do as they rely on snipers much more. The Caps also have their D-men rush the puck much more then Detroit does. I am not sure if Grand Rapids plays the same style as the Wings do but if they do it might actually make Nylander look better then he would in the Caps system.

Saying that I would not want Nylander on the Wings as a Wings fans as I don't think that he is a good replacement for Franzen. Franzen is a guy who will work in the trenches and in front of the net and we all know that isn't Nylander. I also don't think that the Wings are going to make this move because while they will have the Cap space for the short term because Franzen is hurt once he comes back they cannot afford Nylander so I don't see them risking their future for the short term for Nylander.

Posted by: icehammer97 | October 21, 2009 6:41 PM | Report abuse

It seems that the Caps have reached the point of near desperation with Nyls. There is no interest in him among NHL teams. There is limited interest in the Russian league, but teams there apparently question his game-readiness. So the Caps are letting him play some games to demonstrate his conditioning status, despite the injury risk. It speaks volumes that the Caps don't want him in Hershey, where they are trying to build a strong winning attitude among their prospects. Hershey is not a place where the Caps stash their problems.

Posted by: zmega | October 21, 2009 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Stevens, Tinordi, Murphy, Langway, Calle Jo, Joe Reekie and Sheehy. You don't think Caps could've won with those guys? Three HoFmers on the blueline and we couldn't've won? No, cstanton, you are wrong on this one.

Put it to a vote of the good posters here - cstanton or tominfl1 on this one. Cast your votes and don't leave chads!

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Reekie and Sheehy? uhh what? Sheehy was horrible. Slow, no explosion in the way he attacked forwards, for an allegedly tough guy (who got cheap misconducts to pad his PIM totals), he wasn't that tough. He was a yapper who went runnin for cover when he got challenged by anyone bigger than a Claude Lemieux or Kris King. The original Louis Robitaille if you will. As a defenseman, he was average. Luckily he was protected in our strong defensive lineup.

Reekie was a little better, not much better.

And again, you're forgetting about us losing Courtnall and Dino. That hurt upfront the same way losing Stevens hurt on the back line.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Scott Stevens was a great player, one of the all time best but I watched him play hundred of games... he was prone to turnovers in his zone, a lot more often than Murphy... but since he was also prone to delivering great hits most Caps fans turned a blind eye on his mistakes.

also in his youger years he was suckered into lots of needless fights that left the Caps in bad situations.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

lol, you sound like a propaganda machine. Stevens uhh..out of position on big hits uhh..prone to turnovers but given a free pass because of his big hits...uhh..suckered into fights..uhh..

give it a rest already, you sound like a clown. His teammates appreciated his fire and intensity. And if he had walked away from most of those fights, he wouldn't have become the player he turned into. You don't get the kind of reputation he had by simply turning the other cheek when you're a young kid. The reason he could pick his battles more carefuly as a Devil was because
A--he had already established himself as a warrior when he was younger

B--with McKay, Peluso, Daneyko etc in the lineup, there were plenty of other folks to fight the Dave Browns and Bob Proberts of the league. The Caps prior to Alan May and Nick Kypreous only employed tough guys on a part time basis. So Stevens ended up doing a lot of the battling for this team. To dismiss those contributions by saying he was suckered into it and ended up hurting the team is tantamount to blasphemy. So F U dude.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse

a more minor trade that Poile engineered that I didn't like at all was dealing away Dean Evason for Jorgen freakin Pettersson. Yuck. Evason was a top penalty killing center and all-around gritty role player for a long long time. An underrated Poile move was dumping useless tough guy Torrie Robertson to the Whalers for Greg Adams.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 6:54 PM | Report abuse

LMAO what an idiot...

yeah I'm sure Langway really appreciated Stevens for getting suckered into a needless fight... as if Langway needed to play any more minutes than he had to

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

you didn't see Langway getting into many fights, did you??? you know why? because the team needed him to be on the ice, not in the penalty box.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Langway was a different type of player you jackass. So according to you o great one, anytime a player racks up PIMs, that automatically makes him a liability to your roster? Ever heard of Dale Hunter??? Not quite synonymous with Lady Byng, was he. Go read some more hockey news mags, you need to update your brain.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 7:04 PM | Report abuse

quick education directed at JoeK (this is free, next one may cost you)

Hockey players have different styles. Young players who are aggressive need to hone their craft by responding to challenges and proving themselves in physical battles, a lot of times especially pre-Bettman, that involved racking up some PIMs. Cam Neely, Scott Stevens, Rick Tocchet, Wendel Clark, Gary Roberts, Mike Foligno, Adam Graves (u following the bouncing puck yet??)

Once these players have established their physical presence early in their career, they can taper it back and not have to fight every battle. A kid like Milan Lucic will have to fight more often now than later in his career.

To throw Langway into this discussion is asinine, but then I expect that from you.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

part 2

Then you have players who ALWAYS have to fight because thats their primary role on a team - Kocur, Probert, Grimson etc.

If Scott Stevens had simply turned the cheek when getting challenged by the Duane Sutters and Bobby Bournes of the NHL, he would have had a lot less respect on the ice. You fight early to establish a presence and create some fear in the opponent. When Dave Brown runs over your goaltender, do you look to the ref for a possible 2 min penalty or do you say fk it, i'm dropping the gloves in this case despite the obvious advantage to the Flyers in that 1 for 1 swap? There are times to be disciplined and there are times when being a little reckless and undisciplined can go a long way. We drafted him because of his fiery nature and ability. You don't stifle that spirit in a young hockey player. That's part of what made him so great to watch.
Times may have changed a little but thats how hockey was played for a long long time. Stevens did the right thing by battling for his teammates. Only a total douchbag would denigrate him for that.

Posted by: cstanton1 | October 21, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

cstanton1 - the Sidney Crosby of the Caps message board.

Posted by: LeftCoastCapsFan | October 21, 2009 7:15 PM | Report abuse

cstanton1, you said the majic word... asinine, just the perfect description of you.

you are the idiot who doesn't understand there is more than one way/style to play the game... you would rather have Bob Rouse than Larry Murphy because Murphy doesnt' play "your style"... LMAO

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Stevens was great, trading him was a huge mistake. He contributed a lot to the Caps, even as a young player. However, he definitely was a hot-head. I remember him trying to start a fight in an exhibition game against the U.S. Olympic team. All things considered, the pluses outweighed the minuses when he was young, and by a large margin as he entered his prime. Even in his later years, there was no sound on the rink comparable to the crash Stevens made taking an opposing player into the boards.

Posted by: zmega | October 21, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

The winner IS tominfl1. Oh no I see a couple of chads, could it be cstanton1 is the winner, but wait see these other chads, no it's definitely tominfl1 as the winner. Ahh but cstanton1 sues tominfl1 and now the lawyers are involved. OH NO, we are all now confused. So for the hockey gods to keep on smiling the case is sent to the NHL"s supreme court with chief justice Bettman, who decides in favor of....of....of....Pittsburgh!!!

THE WINNER IS tominfl1. BECAUSE he is a lot funnier and doesn't resort to name calling and four letter words!!!!!!

BTW I sure got a lot of pleasure reading how the longtime Caps fans disagree agree who is the better player from the past. This gal prefers the present.

Bottom line I don't care who or what kind of defense the Caps have or had, they still need to score the goals.

Posted by: newbiecapsfan07 | October 21, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

Ad on the NHL Craigs List Page:
1. Used hockey equipment for sale.
2. Pre-owned Zamboni tires with limited wear.
3. Former NHL Center with experience available for loan.
AHL, ECHL, and Adult league teams are welcome to inquire. Call or e-mail George. Have a nice day!

Posted by: kcbrichmond | October 21, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse

there are two kinds of fights in hockey... the ones that are neccessary and the ones that are purely selfish

the Caps had only 3 legit d-men in those years.. Langway, Stevens and Engblem (later Murphy). Stevens got into way too many selfish fights early in his career, anyone who watched him in those early years know that.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Dudes, please, go sit each of you five minutes in the box for fighting.

I'll now tell you about the point I made and why it relates to today (so chad8 can rest easy). People are taslking about maybe letting Semin walk as a RFA for the four draft picks. Well, we got 5 #1s for Stevens, who signed w/St. Louis (the town, not the player) in the summer of 1990. The first of those players to contribute was Sergei Gonchar in 1996. Meanwhile, for playoffs in 91, 92, 93, 94 and 95 - we had nothing on the NHL roster in exchange for Stevens. In 91 we lost to Cup champs Pitt 4-1 in 2nd Rd. With Stevens? I dunno. In 92 we lost to Pitt after being up 3-1. I say - we get the Cup that Pitt got. In 93 we lost to Islanders 4-2 when Hunter dumper Turgeon. I say we beat Isles, we beat Habs, we beat Gretzky and Kings and get Cup. In 94 we lost in Round 2 to NYR and Messier. I say destiny was on their side and even Stevens doesn't turn the tide. In 95 and 96 we lost to Pitt in Round 1 (again in 95 with 3-1 lead). I say with Stevens we win both years, although maybe not Cup (but then, Devils don't win in w/o him).

This is to point out that Alexander Semin, although no Scott Stevens, if he leaves and we take the picks, won't be "replaced" by those picks until 5-6 years in the future, 2015 or 20164. In the meantime, you are short one the league's best sniper - a discriminating factor that could be the difference in YET ANOTHER Cup loss.

Fans of the Caps: Don't pull a "Murphy" on Green or Semin and chase them out of town. George McPhee: Don't repeat David Poile's mistake w/Scott Stevens and take draft picks for a player in his prime.

I don't have long enough left to live to wait for this organization if it perpetuates the mistakes of the past over and over and over again.

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse

tominfl1

Poile had nothing to do with Stevens leaving.. it's all on Abe

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

joek443: Well, if was Abe, it was Abe. That would mean then that Abe was also responsible for Courtnall and Dino leaving. That doesn't get Poile off the hook for the lousy deals he made with those players, but gives Abe the lion's share (or the "griffin's" share) of the blame for the Caps failing to get the Cup in the 90s. My Dad hates Abe cuz he took the Bullets out of Baltimore. I give Abe a pass on that (Civic Centre was woeful). I don't give Abe a pass though as owner of Caps. He stunk.

On an unrelated subject, I am noticing that vodka, cranberry juice, lemon juice and 7-Up makes a drink remarkably close to "Caps" red.

Not only that, but high in vitamin C and good for the urinary tract! Yes, folks, we need to keep that urinary tract in tip-top shape!

I think I'll "rock the red" and make another. For the tract...of course.

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

I am in complete agreement with tominfl1 on this one. Say what you will about the defense needs of this team, but when I see certain posters I already know what they are going to discuss--defense--past or present--or conflate the two.

BUT DON'T GET RID OF SEMIN OR GREEN. I really consider the young guns the core of this team--dismantle it at your peril. I'll agree that no one is completely un-tradeable (aside from Ovechkin) but we have so many options other than trading away the best assets of this team.

Posted by: newbiecapsfan07 | October 21, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Seriously please give it a rest--the arguing makes me want to read another message board.

Posted by: newbiecapsfan07 | October 21, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Yes, I hope there is a resolution to the Nylander situation seen. Intereting move -- sending him to Grand Rapids. Did they make the agreement directly with Detroit to do so.

I hope Semin is okay. He obviously had missed Monday's practice, came back yesterday, and missed again today. Sounds like the guy may have pushed himself a little hard and relapsed. (Note: it was a hard practice.) Of course, I have no idea what's wrong with him, guessing a bad cold or the flu. (And BTW, trading him would not be a good idea. A package deal of Semin and Nyls would be a $10M cap hit for any team.)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | October 21, 2009 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Too funny. Maybe if McPhee had showcased Nylander during the preseason, he could have had this thing resolved by the beginning of the season.

I think McPhee is a decent GM, but he's had a miserable start to the season. He's still got Nylander due to some weird freezeout where he wouldn't even skate him during preseason to attract interest, he lost Bourque because of reluctance to put almighty Flash on LTIR, where he went anyway, and he's still got TF Sloan on an NHL roster due to someone's unquestioned belief all AHLers are decent NHLers being held back by The Man. What a dismal sequence of events.

Posted by: pga6 | October 21, 2009 8:13 PM | Report abuse

pga6:

My opinion is that Tyler Sloan is a very capable, third pair defenseman who could crack top 6 d-men on maybe 10 of the 30 teams; top 7 on another 10 or 15; and maybe only top 8 on only the best teams.

I've never seen him make a mistake other than a brief period last year, right after getting called up, when he made a game-altering mistake in Phoenix.

Rated performance vs his salary of $640K, I call him a "bargain." If the Caps put him on waivers to send him to Hershey, I'd expect he'd get snatched. Then again, I was also certain Aucoin would get snatched.

I believe Tyler Sloan can be the 6th defenseman on a Cup winner. He's decent player and he's obviously been coached very well. Actually he's better as a third-pair d-man than some of our 3rd and 4th line forwards, some of whom make way more.

Check.

Your move.

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

tominfl1, if you remember there was an "incident" involving Stevens, Dino, Neil Sheehy and a certain female at a party. I remember very well listening to Ken Beatrice in those years that Abe not deciding to match the offer by the Blues had more do to with that incident than the money involved.

Dino and Sheehy had no problem sticking around and clearing their names but Stevens was different.. he wanted to leave and get a fresh start.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

OH NO now I don't know if I liked Hatcher better than Murphy or if we would have won 3 cups or 4 if Stevens had taken a cab that night...OH NO! Did Neil Sheehey go to Harvard or Yale and was Calle Johanssen the key or was Joe Reekie the underrated glue that held the D together??? OH NO I just dont know. It was just yesterday but seems like 20 years ago...OH NO its very relevant to todays issues!!!

OH NO..Nylander is off to Michigan...I thought he was going to play tomorrow night in Atlanta.. OH NO Someone explain why he's not playing and why dont we trade him already. OH NO I wish Tarik would ask some tough quetions...OH NOOOOOO...We need to trade Semin....

Posted by: ChickenLittleCapsFan | October 21, 2009 8:57 PM | Report abuse

@joek443 & @tominfl1

I do remember Stevens being involved in the "limousine incident" with Ciccarelli and others.

I think it had a lot to do with the fact that Stevens left (and Abe not matching the offer from the Blues). To this day, the Caps regret not matching the offer.

I say a prayer that nothing similar happens with our current group. (I feel had enough experience with scandals from that age group -- just from the kids my elder daughter went to school with.)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | October 21, 2009 9:00 PM | Report abuse

@tominfl1

Your post on taking the draft picks instead of Semin is spot on. We'd be waiting several years for the picks to mature. (In other words, a rebuilding year.)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | October 21, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

ChickenLittleCapsFan:
hahahahahahahahaha
funny sh*t

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | October 21, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

joek443: Stevens was I think the first of the hockey free agents when he signed an offer sheet with St. Louis summer, 1990 - 5 years, $1M per year.

At the time, the limo incident wasn't fully understood. Later, years later, it was clear that Abe wanted to rid the club of all four players.

Mind you, as a father of three wonderful daughters, all in 20s now, I make no judgment here except based on hockey. I have no clue to judge on rightness or wrongness of what happened in the limo.

BTW, I think you add Russ Courtnall to your list of "Caps in the limo."

Note: I myself have never been in a limo.

BUT, when Kelly Miller signed an offer sheet several years later, 4 yrs, $900K per season, w/Sharks, and the Caps matched, I as a season ticket holder at the time had the very clear impression that the club didn't want to make the same mistake that it had made with Stevens and lose the player.

Limo or no limo, not matching the Scott Stevens contract goes down as a terrible mistake like when Hank Peters didn't pony up and sign Reggie Jackson to a 5-yr Oriole contract for 77-81.

Put Reggie in black and gold those years instead of pinstripes - O's get 2-3 WS championships instead of zero; put Stevens in R, W & B for 90-95 and you can give the Caps 2 or 3 Cups as well.

Reggie Jax those five years was the most dynamic player in MLB; Scott Stevens in the 90s was the best defensive player in hockey. No way can any reasonable person make an argument that removing Scott Stevens (as an either/or) from any NHL team at the time would have failed to reduce their ability to win.

The Capitals were denied (thanks, Abe, you withered old fart) the chance to have Scott Stevens on their roster in the 90s; the return they got (small contributions from Gonchar and Witt) was negligible.

Let's not make that mistake again and let any of our current stars leave via RFA in return for draft picks that might or might not offer a return a decade from now.

Having Abe as "owner of my team" sucked. Not Dan Snyder kinda sucked; not Peter Angelos kinda sucked; and surely not Bob Irsay kinda sucked. But Abe sucked.

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

@chickenLittle: Where have you BEEN.

Posted by: redlineblue | October 21, 2009 9:17 PM | Report abuse

@ChickenLittleCapsFan

Your post is so funny! (The ultimate sarcasm of "the sky is falling".)

I guess most of us Caps fans have seen the sky fall too often.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | October 21, 2009 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone read the link that said that a KHL teams wants Nylander but would need a conditioning stint? I was assuming that Nylander would be going to Europe, not Detroit?

The link was in the Morning Round-up.

Posted by: mattbuckley80 | October 21, 2009 9:37 PM | Report abuse

yes, Stevens was the first real FA to be signed by any team in the NHL.

I watched the espn documentary "Kings Ransom" a couple weeks which was the first episode of their "30 for 30" series... 30 sports documentaries made by 30 movie directors.

The year after Gretzky was eventually traded, he was to be a FA... the owner of the Oilers Peter Pocklington already knew he couldn't afford him so he made the trade so that he would at least get somethign in return before he left for nothing.

have to wonder what kinda money the Great One would have gotten in the open market...

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 9:38 PM | Report abuse

joek443:
i'm not sure how much the gretz could get, but ovi's next contract will be awesome

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | October 21, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Tom, it was geoff coutnall. And as I recall, the limo incident was well known by the time Stevens signed. I recall Dino doing some major pr that summer trying to clear his name... Which was a bit tarnished by his habit of getting the newspaper without any pants on. And no charges were ever filed inthat case. Limo or not, Scott wasgone cause Abe didn't want to pay him.

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 21, 2009 10:00 PM | Report abuse

joek443: Well, Gretzky was under no obligation to sign long-term just cuz he got traded.

Somehow through fuzzy memory (beer, wine, vodka, tequila, rum, gin, time and stress will do that) I seem to recall he inked a 3-yr, $25M pact after getting traded.

Do I write like an AP copy person or what?

Well, hopefully, I won't be tominfl1 for much longer. The corporate director is working for me openings that could make me tominpalmdale1 or tominsanjose1. Like Micheal Nylander, I have a family to consider, even though kids in 20s, but an extra $25K or so in salary plus moving benefits (plus increased pension from higher salary) make it enticing.

Palmdale gets you Caps vs Anaheim and LA; San Jose only gets you Sharks.

It's highly unlikely I could sign an offer sheet with Raytheon, Boeing or Northrup Grumman that would result in draft choice compensation. It's also sad (to me, anyway) that 50,000 people won't fill up an arena to watch me create a cost estimate. Just think of the money I could command then!

I can tell you my cats are really happy when I pull into the driveway.

Sometimes in life you must satisfy yourself with the little things.

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 10:03 PM | Report abuse

would you believe that there are still Redskins fans out there who defend Snyder??

LOL they say, "well he spends the money, what else can he do??"

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

CodePoetry: sorry that I'm reading all this so late. Your post made me laugh. thanks.

Posted by: dccitizen1 | October 21, 2009 10:28 PM | Report abuse

You know what I love? Living in D.C., having season tickets, and watching the coolest team in the NHL. Another step this year and off we go.

Posted by: saintex | October 21, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

BTW, having lived in Minnesota in my youth - crap player but NStar lover - it's cool to see the Wild in sh&t-hot unis tonight. Great stuff.

Posted by: saintex | October 21, 2009 10:33 PM | Report abuse

What is with this Semin talk? Have you people been smoking crack? Have you been spending too much time with the Redskins brass? Did you fell and hit your head too hard? WTF????

Posted by: hock1 | October 21, 2009 10:52 PM | Report abuse

@tominfl1

So when do you hear on the promotion?

I recall my dad took a job (gov) that required moving from the DC area to California. This was after my sister and I had grown up and were on our own. My parents moved to Redlands, CA not far from San Bernardino. (My sister, at the time and still is, in San Francisco.)

After moving around a lot, my dad had stuck with a not so great job in DC so we could have more stability (and spend all 4 years at the same HS.)

Posted by: CapsFan75 | October 21, 2009 10:55 PM | Report abuse

joek443: Well, Gretzky was under no obligation to sign long-term just cuz he got traded

Posted by: tominfl1 | October 21, 2009 10:03 PM | Report abuse

my point was that Gretz got traded in 1988. he was gonna be a FA in 1989 at the age of 28. apparently that clause was in the original deal he signed with the Oilers when the team was still in WHA according to the documentrary.

when Dr. Jerry Buss still was the owner of the Kings as well as the Lakers, he would sometimes talk to Pocklington and inquire about the possiblity of trading for Gretzky. And Pocklington never said no to Buss. So after Buss sold the Kings to Bruce McNall, Buss told him about the possiblity of getting the Great One.

Posted by: joek443 | October 21, 2009 11:30 PM | Report abuse

saintex:
Did you live in/near the Twin Cities?

Posted by: Boo- | October 21, 2009 11:46 PM | Report abuse

Boo-:
i got my nylander fix, thanks to tarik

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | October 22, 2009 12:07 AM | Report abuse

kirk:
lol! too bad you had to wait til wed!! ;-)

Posted by: Boo- | October 22, 2009 12:19 AM | Report abuse

good for nyles.i hope he gets what he wants.why bash a guy if he really hasnt done nothing wrong to deserve this.he may not fit into bb's playing style and not a good fit for the team but really now that he's healthier than before,who really knows if he could produce or not.so good luck nyles and play ur arse off to impress somebody that wants you.just not the caps.GO CAPS!!!

Posted by: gratefuldid | October 22, 2009 12:49 AM | Report abuse

I'm not really holding out much hope for Nylander to go anywhere in the KHL without a few games under his belt to prove he can still play. Dinamo Moscow said outright that they weren't interested because he was out half of last season, according to that article Katie posted this morning... Let's all just hope the conditioning stint works out for him.

Also, for those of you who don't expect Fleischmann to go to Hershey: I do. I think they will send him down for a conditioning stint as well. There is no risk of waivers on a conditioning stint; we did the same last season when Pothier came back. I expect to see it in the next week or so. Of course, I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not.

Posted by: irockthered | October 22, 2009 12:58 AM | Report abuse

Boo-:
maybe i'll try and start some nonsense tomorrow

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | October 22, 2009 1:21 AM | Report abuse

Kirk:
Maybe?!? I thought that was your goal every day! ;-)

Posted by: Boo- | October 22, 2009 1:24 AM | Report abuse

not every day - sometimes the entertainment here just jumps off the screen. you're up a little late i'd say.

Posted by: Capt_Kirk_in_AZ | October 22, 2009 1:35 AM | Report abuse

Can he take Schultz w him?

Posted by: lboyd1 | October 22, 2009 7:54 AM | Report abuse

Boo,

Lived in Edina when I was young.

Posted by: saintex | October 22, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

The Wings are not going to take Nylander. He is a going to pose a long term problem in terms of salary cap.

Posted by: chopin224 | October 22, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

can we PLEASE do something with this guy??? He cost us Chris Bourque....he's alienated his coach and teammates -- he's costing us 5 MILLLLLLLLLLION dollars, and not skating......

Posted by: dah1963 | October 22, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

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