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Summertime Support Group

Well folks, we're in that particularly painful time of year for hockey fans. I'll be keeping up the blog while Tarik's on vacation through Aug. 2, including news of defenseman Shaone Morrisonn's arbitration hearing, which is scheduled for July 24 (Thursday).

I'll keep you posted on any news and keep tabs on the league of course, but consider this an open invitation to talk about whatever Caps-related topics are on your mind in the comments section. Hopefully we can all trudge through this incredibly slow time of year together.

In the meantime, you may have already seen this, but in possibly the strangest (or most amusing) news of the off season, Tampa Bay has a haunted wall to go along with all those free agents it signed.

By Katie Carrera  |  July 21, 2008; 10:05 AM ET
 
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Next: Morrisonn's Arbitration Hearing Scheduled for Tomorrow

Comments

first

Posted by: SECOND | July 21, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

More like the curse of crappy management. What tools. Hope Halpern gets healthy - rehab sucks. LET'S GO CAPS!!!

Posted by: buki | July 21, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

You're right....long 6 or 7 weeks ahead of us until training camp. I hope the Caps can settle Morrissonn or however he spells his name by the hearing date, although it doesn't look likely.

Posted by: Elaine | July 21, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I hate summer! Who doesn't long for the cool crisp days of Oct right about now?!

Has anyone else noticed the Caps website has the team roster with Keith Aucoin, #37? So maybe there is no plan to retire it then...never thought I'd say this, but fine by me.

Posted by: bubblegirl1 | July 21, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Hey Katie...

Do you want to be a part of our circus? How many Hoola Hoops can you hoola hoop at the same time?

Is hoola hoop a verb? or is just hoola?

Posted by: JSchon | July 21, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Can we start a petition for a 3 pt system?

3 points for a win...2 for a shootout win, and 1 for a shootout loss.

3 pts at stake a game....Nuff Said...

Posted by: I hate the pt system. | July 21, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

C'mon bubblegirl1, it has to be reitred. I am not an Olie apologist or anything, but the contribution he made over the years and the fact that he was the best goalie in team history by far, pretty much is a lock... but maybe not right now.

An interesting question would be: Who do you think the next 3 retired jerseys should be. Here's mine (in no particular order):
1) Olie - for reasons stated above.
2) Peter Bondra - Do I even need to explain this one?
3) Calle Johansson - I think he deserves it. Leads the team in games played. Was a true stay at home D-man that could really play the game. And, you see what the impact had been on the D ever since he was rudely ushered out by the lovely Cassidy.

Just my $.02.

Posted by: Phil C. | July 21, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Jschon,

I think the verb is hoola hooping. Have you invested in season tickets yet Jschon? If not, that is what you need to be doing.

Posted by: #94 | July 21, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Can we start a petition to trade Jurcina?

Posted by: wanax | July 21, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Trade Jurcina for a bag of pucks.

Posted by: Jurcina | July 21, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

The next three retired jersies should be:
1) no one
2) no one
3) no one

Alex Ovechkin hasn't played long enough, but he has the potential to be on that list. No one else is even close. Labre's retired jersey is a farce. Langway is justifiable as he helped save the franchise and is a hall of famer. I love Dale, but his retired jersey is a bit suspect too, although he was team captain when the Caps made their only cup Finals and has scored the most significant playoff goal in franchise history.

Calle shouldn't even be in the conversation. Bondra held franchise records, but based on his standing in NHL history and the lack of championships or playoff success he should not be retired.

Olie is close and wouldn't copletely piss me off if his got retired, even though I don't think he deserves it. No championships, but he did lead the team to its only finals appearance. He has earned a Vezina Trophy and was a team leader who decided to stick with the franchise through a difficult rebuild when most other players bolted for greener pastures.
For me it comes down to the fact he just doesn't have significant numbers when compared to other goalies in NHL history and even during his era of the NHL. He doesn't have Roy or Brodeur numbers, or even Osgood numbers for that matter.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Greg Joly was the first pick ever.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 21, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse

@Rog

Man, I've been beating my head about season tickets. The problem is that I'm a seat snob. I need to be in the 100's, center ice or close to it above the glass line. I can't afford those tix. I went to 2 of the play-off games and sat in 400's, it was great because it was the play-offs and the crowd was nuts... but... sitting in the 100's would be nicer...

Also, there would be no way that I could make anything close to 41 home games with the amount of travel I do with work. I make it to 10 to 15 games a year and will try to make it to 15 to 20 this season. That's probably the best I can do. That might even be a stretch.

Posted by: JSchon | July 21, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Hopefully Tarik is reading some hockey books to give us more insight rather than the same bs game reports.

Posted by: Hockey Books | July 21, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

@freakinandpeakin: I agree with you, but ten bucks says there's a Peter Bondra night this season. I can't work up an objection because he was my first favorite player, but it is weird to have three retired numbers and, what, four division banners?
@bubblegirl: well, they can't retire his number while he's still in the league (unless someone REALLY want to insult him :P )

Posted by: honed | July 21, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

@JSchon

Wish you'd said something earlier...I've got one seat at center in 100 and would have liked to have gotten a second but didn't know someone that would take it for at least half the games.

Posted by: keef | July 21, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

I'm happy with my nose bleed season tickets.

Posted by: Steve R | July 21, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

@ Steve R

For me the bigger issue is being able to go to all of the games. Just aint possible, especially when my schedule changes weekly.

Posted by: JSchon | July 21, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

We already have three retired jerseys and we haven't won a cup. We should wait until we win something.

Posted by: wanax | July 21, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

JSchon,

Dude, you quit one job to go to developmental camp, gotta get your priorities set for regular season..

And you can't really buy tickets much ahead of time if your schedule changes weekly. That sucks.

Posted by: Steve R | July 21, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

@keef

Then we could come up with a Clark groin joke collection, maybe put into desk calender format?

Posted by: JSchon | July 21, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

@Jschon

I went to about 15 regular season games last year myself. I finally did the full season plan.

I bought 1 seat, a buddy of mine bought 1 seat next to mine and we're going to split the seats into pairs of 20 and 21 games, rather than a single seat for 41.

Not to mention the fact that the caps select games you can trade in games you can't make for extra tickets to games you can make.

My seats are up in 404. I obviously would prefer to be in the 100's but 404 fit my budget better for the time being.

And no...I don't work for the Caps ticket sales office

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 21, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

clarification: I finally went for the full season plan for this upcoming season.

Also, the ticket master ticket exchange lets you sell tickets to games you can't make.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 21, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Seriously, my schedule is a mess and it will get worse in the near future. I quit my travel/recruiting job to start a travel/recruiting business...

I've been buying tickets day of for years now... Its been the only way for me. I have friends that have season tickets that buy 2 between 2 4 guys but I still couldn't do that unless they gave me all of the weekend dates. They have families, I dont.

Posted by: JSchon | July 21, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

I think if you want to trade someone they have to have value and Jurcina doesnt maybe you might get some stick tape in return. He's out once lepisto & alzer are ready. I like both those guys. Lepisto is a cheap version of mike green(can shoot the puck). Erskine might be gone to if both those players come up.

Posted by: smartfan | July 21, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

on the subject of retired Jerseys...

I don't think Calle Jo should have his jersey retired. He was a great Cap, but he wasn't exactly a perenial hall of famer.

Langway is a hall of famer so his makes sense, I love Hunter and he was Mr. Capital for years so I think his merits are questionable, but I have no problem with it.

Having Labre's jersey retired never made much sense to me. Sure he was a good team guy but why is he worthy of having his numebrs up in the rafters? Granted, i was born in 1981 so I may just be too young to appreciate what he did for the team.

I think Kolzig should and will have his number retired. Bondra I am iffy on. I agree that for a team with zero cups, it doesn't make much sense for us to be throwing tons of jerseys up in the rafters.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 21, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Labre was retired because at the time they had no one else to retire.

Posted by: Leeguru | July 21, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

@Sombrero Guy

Why should Olie have his jersey retired? What has he done on the ice that really deserves it?

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying he was a very good goalie in his prime, but in his prime he wasn't dominate, he never won championships, was rarely (if ever) an all-star. Having your jersey retired is for the rare few, IMO, that not only put of hall of fame numbers or near hall of fame numbers, and meant so much for the team in leadership. Olie is lacking on that first requirement...greatly.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Why is there even discussion about Bondra? Hang his jersey up immediately.

Posted by: Jordan | July 21, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

@Jschon,
Have you tried the partial plan? You can chose which games you want, or you can just pick all the weekend games.

I do the same thing Sombrero guy does. I 'split' season tickets with someone else, I've been doing that for the past 4 season (this season will be #5). The caps actually found this person for me; although I do not think they do this practice anymore.

And don't be afraid to give the 400's a shot. If you sit in the first 4/5 rows, anywhere up top its a lot better then people realize.

Posted by: Go Skins Go | July 21, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

@Jordan

What did Bondra do to deserve to have his jersey retired? His isn't nearly as close a discussion as Olie's.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

@freakin

Oh I dunno, only be the best player and fan favorite on the team for like 10 years or so. Led the league in scoring a couple times, was huge in the youth hockey community, and just generally kicked ass and took names. Were you a Caps fan in the 90's?

Posted by: Jordan | July 21, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, the retiring of a number should only given to someone who A. won championships or B. perennial all-star and broke or owns lots of club or league records.

Langway is the only Cap to meet either one of those categories.

Posted by: JSchon | July 21, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

@JSchon,

It honestly wouldn't bother you to see some guy wearing Caps #12? It seems like a dirty thought to me.

Posted by: Jordan | July 21, 2008 12:11 PM | Report abuse

@freakinandpeakin -- are you kidding me about Olie? The guy was the face of the franchise for almost a decade. The life line of the team, the heart and sole of this organization. THE FAN FAVORITE for about 10 years (excluding his last year), and people think he doesn't deserve to have his number retired once he retires from the game (and waits 5 years). Winning 300 games should be the only qualifier needed. Everything else is gravy.

The guy was the only reason the caps made a run in '98. Everything that guy has done in this community, playing on crappy teams but keeping quiet. Being a model employee for YEARS. Yeah he left in a pissy mood, sure GMGM should have handled it better. but if you've given your career to 1 organization, you'd be bitter as well.

If anyone 'deserves' to have his # retired as a Capital, the list starts and ends with Olie Kolzig. I love Bondra, I love Calle; neither of them measure up to what Olie has done.

I'm still a fan of Olie Kolzig and until he comes out and starts badmouthing this organization and this fan base, I will continue to be a fan of Olie Kolzig.

Posted by: Go Skins Go | July 21, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

@go skins go

Partial plans dont work for either, since I dont know my schedule months in advance.

The Caps get money and I'm happy to give it to them when I'm in town for games.

Posted by: JSchon | July 21, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

@Freakinandpeakin

Olie should get it because I do think he was dominant for several years. Two time all star, he won the vezina, was the NHL first team all star goalie etc.

I do see your point, and Kolzig isn't going to end up in the hall of fame, but given his achievements and his long tenure as a Cap, in a few years I wouldn't mind the Caps hanging his jersey in the rafters.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 21, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

I met Langway when I was in upstate NY and he was coaching the Richmond Riverdogs.

Awesome guy, and pretty much the only team I saw whose players waited to go on the ice until my ice techs got done preparing.

Very disciplined off the ice..on the ice..thats another story

Posted by: Anonymous | July 21, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

After deleting a few posts this morning, it appears that I have to post a blog rules reminder. It's clearly stated on this and all Washington Post blogs that any comments posted under someone else's name will be deleted. Don't post under a name that isn't your own.

And we're all adults here so lets keep the discussion to the Caps and hockey.

Posted by: Katie Carrera | July 21, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Did i miss something?

Posted by: JSchon | July 21, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Maybe they should learn to make people register

or their WAPO online sign in name would be on the post.

That might solve the problem

Posted by: Tommmy | July 21, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

JSchon

StubHub my friend, StubHub

Posted by: Tommmy | July 21, 2008 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Fake Names usually are not a problem and occasionally offer a good laugh. Some people apparently just get extra excited at the possibility of indirectly interacting with a woman. Hopefully they have regained their composure by now.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 21, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Katie, does that mean thay you and Lindsay weren't spending quality time together? There goes my lunch fantasy....

Posted by: Leeguru | July 21, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Sombrero, you have too much hope.....

Posted by: Leeguru | July 21, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Someone's been posting under my name, including one that just went up there, that has subsequently been deleted.

Sorry to bog the comments down with this stuff guys, the vast majority of you don't do these things.

Posted by: Katie Carrera | July 21, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

@sombrero guy

Olie is a much closer argument for retired jersey. It wouldn't be a complete travesty to have his number retired.


@Jordan

I have been a Caps fan since the very early 1980's, as soon as I could watch the sport. First, Bondra NEVER lead the league in scoring, Ovechkin is the first Cap to ever do that. He tied for the league lead in GOAL scoring once (I concede he may have held it outright one other time, don't feel like checking). He disappeared during the playoffs every year. The year we went to the Finals he scored 7 goals in 17 games and that was his best playoff season.

I just have a hard time retiring a jersey for guys who made it out of the first round of the playoffs ONCE in their entire careers (or twice in the case of Bondra). Shouldn't playoff success mean something?

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Greg Joly was the worst pick ever.

Posted by: | July 21, 2008 11:07 AM

Fixed.

Posted by: Ben | July 21, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

I'm still upset that it wasn't the real Chief who'll be sporting the pink tutu last game of the season.

Posted by: Steve R | July 21, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

@freakin

Yeah, obviously I meant goal scoring. Bondra was a finisher, never a setup guy. Like I said before, it would just be wrong for anybody else to wear Caps #12. So retire it. Arguments like 'Sure he was an awesome player, BUT..' aren't going to convince me he should be kept outta the rafters.

Posted by: Jordan | July 21, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

"- Jeff Halpern's knee is responding slowly, and the center likely won't be back in the lineup before Christmas. "

Um, kinda ironic since Halpern is a practicing Jew. They should have made it Channukah, which would be correct and a good laugh.

Posted by: JS4 | July 21, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

While we're at it, #68 is forevermore tainted, might as well retire it too....

Posted by: Steve R | July 21, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

@Steve R -- Retire or burn?

Posted by: Go Skins Go | July 21, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Go Skins,

Is there a way to hang a perpetually burning #68 jersey in the rafters. Very symbolic of his deserving to burn in he@@.

Posted by: Steve R | July 21, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

why not hang up 68 with an X over it

Posted by: 68 | July 21, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

@Jordan

Simply put, Bondra did not achieve 1000 points for his career, got to 503 career goals (472 with the Caps), only scored 50 goals in a season twice, was not an on ice leader. It's great the he was wonderful in the community, but that doesn't mean a jersey should be retired.

To me the ultimate knock on him for purposes of jersey retirement is that he was never successful in the playoffs. The year the team went to the finals he didn't even play in every game. During his 13 seasons in Washington (not including the season he was traded to Ottawa for Brooks Laich) the team made the playoffs 10 times. In those ten seasons the team moved to the second round twice and beyond that only once.

How can you justify a player whose greatest on ice achievement is that he lead the league in goal scoring twice to having his jersey retired. He never scored a clutch goal, he never carried the team on his back, or provided that emotional spark. Hunter did that, Kolzig did that, Langway did that, Juneau did that, Ovechkin has done that.

Bondra was a fantastic offensive talent, but being a fantastic offensive talent and good in the community shouldn't equal a jersey retirment in my opinion.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

did you just slide Joe Juneau in there with the others?

Posted by: 68 | July 21, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Wait.... Scratch the perpetually burning jersey idea. The ice is crappy enough as it is without introducing more warmth to the phone booth.

Posted by: Steve R | July 21, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

@Freakinandpeakin

Bondra did in fact lead the league in goals once, during the lockout shortened 94-95 campaign

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/top_league.php?lid=nhl1927&sid=1995&leaguenm=NHL

I think there was also a stretch where he scored more goals than any other NHL player, or maybe it was more than any other non named Jagr over a 4 or 5 year span. Just playing the devil's advocate here

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 21, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

@68

I don't mean that Juneau is the caliber of those other players, just that he actually has scored a clutch goal in a clutch moment, i.e. the Eatern Conference series Clincher. I can't think back and come up with one goal of Bondra's that really sticks out to me. He had great games and got GWG's, but I can't think of one in a moment like that. Heck, even Brian Bellows came up with one that same season against Boston.

I am willing to learn, if someone remembers one.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

@sombrero guy

Bondra also tied with Selanne one year for the league lead in goal scoring.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

JSchon - don't be such a seat snob. Would you really rather sit with all the suits on cell phones instead of with us real fans up in the 400s? I love my seats in the front row of the 400s, and the season ticket price is a much better value.

This reminds me, I need to start thinking about finding a season ticket partner for next season.

Posted by: Jill | July 21, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Are you saying that scoring one clutch goal counts more than scoring more goals in a season than anyone else?

By the way Bondra had 73 game winners and was a five time all star

Posted by: 68 | July 21, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Isn't Olie usually in the top three in broken sticks?

Posted by: Steve R | July 21, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

@freakin,

That's cool and I'm sure it makes sense to a lot of people, but our opinions are just different, I guess.

Posted by: Jordan | July 21, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Wait, what? Bondra never scored a clutch goal?

Posted by: Jill | July 21, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

@68

I am not saying that one clutch goal is more important that scoring a clutch or highlight goal. But of those 73 game winners from Bondra, do you remember any one of them?

Legends are made from winning and being clutch when it counts...in the playoffs. Bondra was never that.

Just to clarify something. Wasn't Bondra a 5 time all-star GAME selection, not a 5 time all-star (Ovechkin I believe is the first Cap forward to have been an end of season all-star selection). And doesn't the NHL require each team to have a representative at each all-star game. Getting selected to the all-star game is nice acknowledgement, but it is what it is. I mean Tomas Vokun made it this year.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

@Jill

Name it, I want to learn. A goal that won a crucial game, not a goal in a late October or November game. A goal that clinched the playoffs, won a playoff game in OT or late in regulation. I don't seem to remember those moments from Bondra.

Maybe I am wrong. Educate me.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

On the point of Bondra's number being retired. When Jeff Friesen came here he initially wore number 12 but chnaged it a few weeks into the season to number 42 (or some number like that). That would seem to indicate they intend on retiring his number.

Posted by: nhcaps | July 21, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

@freakinandpeakin

the man scored 503 goals what else needs to be said

Posted by: 68 | July 21, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

RETIRE #6!!!

Posted by: Egon | July 21, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

@68

He didn't score 503 with Washington. If we are retiring jerseys based on a players accumulated success I suggest Mike Gartner get retired first. At least he is in the hall of fame, something I doubt Bondra will achieve.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

After reading all the comments re: the number retiring, I agree with everyone who says we can't retire jersey's willy nilly. I do think the iconic caps (like Bondra and similar) should have recognition in the building though.

There are a few ways around it. One is a ring of honor type thing, there is/was one at RFK and I liked that idea. The other is to do something similar to what Virginia Tech does which is put a banner up with the players name and number but not actually retire the number. Number retirement should be something really special, and while many of the players discussed are iconic Caps, I don't think they are really retireable.

Posted by: renstar | July 21, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Excuse me, he scored 472 goals with the caps. Thats certainly a record.

Posted by: 68 | July 21, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

@Freakinandpeakin

Olie actually made the NHL all star team for 99-00

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 21, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Bondra scored the OT winner in game 3 of buffalo series in 98

Posted by: 68 | July 21, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

I remember reading somewhere that you had to be an active player when you died for the Leafs to actual "retire" the number. Otherwise they simply honor the number.

I wouldn't object to a 12 retirement, but maybe the "honored" number or "unofficial retired number" (ala the Skins) routes would be better for Bondra (and Labre for that matter).

Posted by: tallbear | July 21, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

The Canadiens have retired 14 numbers and they have won the cup 24 times.

I think we should wait until we win something.

Posted by: wanax | July 21, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

@ freakin - it appears that you and I have different definitions of "clutch goal." Mine is not qualified by time of year or whether or not it's a playoff game.

Posted by: Jill | July 21, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Maybe we need a washington capitals hall of fame.

Maybe a wall of shame also. Jagr, gonchar, etc.

Posted by: wanax | July 21, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

as a long time cap fan, i can tell you why labre's number was retire. party because he was the last of the original caps. partly because they felt sorry for him cause he went through so much with the team and partly because at the time he was the heart and soul of the team. he was also a guy who got a lot futher than his talent suggested he should have. he was never afraid to drop the gloves and us newbie fans appreciated that. maybe not the criteria others would use, but it made sense at the time.

as for the future, there is no doubt that olie and bondra deserve to be on the rafters. long time players who hold (or held at the time they left the team) most of the records for their position. of this there is no questioning other than from folks who dont know what they are talking about.

calle jo - id say no. close but no.

i would like to have seen them honor ron webber at some point, but i think that day might have passed. other than that, i see no one else on the horizon...

Posted by: Cap Fan 1 | July 21, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

But what would the criteria be for the hall / wall?

Posted by: Steve R | July 21, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Bruce Cassidy has a spot waiting for him in the Hall of Shame...

Posted by: #13 | July 21, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

I vote to add Jason Doig to the wall/hall of shame.

Posted by: 68 | July 21, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Cassidy is a lock for the hall of shame.

Posted by: wanax | July 21, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

If Gonch has a spot on the wall of shame then you pretty much have reserve one for Tikkanen as well.

Posted by: Jill | July 21, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

also, the idea that the team needs to win a cup w/ a guy to retire his number is laughable. if that's the case, no retired numbers for:

bourque or neely in boston
dionne in la
hextall in philly
langway and hunter in dc
savard in chicago

Posted by: Cap Fan 1 | July 21, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Anyone remember Alexandre Volchkov? Would he qualify for the wall of shame?

Posted by: aroddy | July 21, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

booo there's no caps game on my birthay this time how am i supposed to celebrate my 18th anywhere besides a caps game at verizon. Whatever im really pumped for this season im dyin without hockey

Posted by: atg | July 21, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Can we teach Jason Taylor to skate? 6-6 255, not afraid to take the body. He wants to be at a winner, and the Skins wont have a chance. Come Rock the Red.

We could use him on D.

Posted by: Nice dream | July 21, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I remember seeing Volchkov in the parking lot at Piney one day after a practice. I think he was crying.

Posted by: #13 | July 21, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

i think the wall of shame should start with the aformentioned greg joly. i would add robert picard to that list and my favorite, michelle belhamuir (sp). i believe he played two years with the team as backup goalie. number of wins = 0.

Posted by: Cap Fan 1 | July 21, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

@68

Thanks for the info on Bondra's goal in the playoffs. I think that starts to move him towards retired jersey in my mind, but certainly not far enough. As for 472 being a record, what record? Caps all-time leading goal scorer? Okay, then why not retire the guy (Gartner?) whos record he broke? And the record that Gartner broke? Holding a team record in of itself should not be enough to end up with a retired jersey number.

Wanax said it best, Montreal has 14 retired jerseys with 24 Cups. The Caps have zero Cups and you guys want 5 retired jerseys. Ridiculous.

@sombrero guy

I have always said Olie was closer and less objectionable for having a jersey retired. That adds to his resume.

@Jill

It does matter when you score your goals. One of the criticisms of Mike Gartner through the years was that he disappeared in the playoffs.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

How does Crosby win the ESPY for best NHL player?

Posted by: ESPN? | July 21, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Cap Fan 1,

If you make the HOF, a cup win is not a requirement in my book.

Posted by: Steve R | July 21, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Aren't the ESPY's all fan balloting?

Posted by: Jordan | July 21, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

"It does matter when you score your goals. One of the criticisms of Mike Gartner through the years was that he disappeared in the playoff"


Which I presume is one of the reasons the rangers moved him at the trade deadline the year they won the cup

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 21, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Bondra and Kolzig are both borderline. Kolzig was unbelievable a couple of years and was pretty solid the rest of the time. Bondra was a streaky goal scorer the whole time he was here. But you could argue that he was the only real offensive threat during portions of the 90's. If we had won in 98 i would say definitely for both of them.

Posted by: Wanax | July 21, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

factor out bondra's goals and see how many playoffs the caps made....

besides in playoff games u have to take into account how many times some completely unexcusable offsides (points finger at calle johansson) stopped bondra as he was about 2 rush on goal. this also happened during the season. the group he played w/ were off sides like crazy.

one more thing, w/out the failed jagr aquisition, bondra would have scored even more goals for the caps.

retire numbers for bondra, olie, and hunter.

pass on calle. dont u all remember the puck going over his stick or his fuddling. for some reason esa gets pointed at like he ruined the playoffs but most the people i talked 2 started 2 sweat w/e calle stepped on the ice.

Posted by: jim* | July 21, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

pls remove (points finger at calle johansson) from above, cut and paste issue :)

Posted by: jim* | July 21, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

@ Caps fan 1

I just checked and Philly did not retire Hextall's number.

Posted by: Tommmy | July 21, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

@jim*

Maybe they started sweating because they knew that Calle is all-knowing and knew they were Calle-doubters. Calle was awesome, no question about it.

Posted by: Jordan | July 21, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Until Ovechkin, Bengt Gustafsson was the best player I ever saw suit up for the Caps. He played on the PP, PK, and usually played defense on the best opposition forward. He probably didn't play long enough to warrant jersey retirement, but lets hope his boy Anton is a "chip off the old block".

Can't wait until fall!

Posted by: pgeagle | July 21, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Bondra reached the 500 goal mark in game number 1050 (5 games behind Goride hall) which was ranks 20th.

Posted by: UDenver Hockey | July 21, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Also on the list of 500 goal scores he ranks 19th in goals per game. Retire his number.

Posted by: UDenver | July 21, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

tommy, you are correct. i thought they had because they had a ceremony before a caps game last year. it was to induct him into their hall of stars, not retire his number.

Posted by: Cap Fan 1 | July 21, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

While we are at it, I used to play multiple sports and had about 6 different numbers

Retire all of mine so no caps can wear them because I've done just about as much for the Caps team as some of the people we are throwing out there

Posted by: Tommmy | July 21, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

@jim*

Bondra's games played (first number) and goal stats (second number) by year are below.

Bondra made the playoffs his first three years, which I would argue he was not responsible for getting the team into (young player), plus those 3 years were under the old divisional playoff format where everyone made the playoffs; Bondra missed the playoffs for 3 years. I would argue that the Caps would have made the playoffs without Bondra in 93-94, 99-00 and 02-03 (see stats below). That accounts for 9 years out of Bondra's 13 full seasons in Washington. So 4 years he was a key cog in getting the team to the playoffs. In those 4 years the team advanced in the playoffs once (SC Finals season) and I have already made the point that he underperformed that playoff season and was injured missing some 4 games.

Racking up stats is nice, but do it in the playoffs and he never did.

90-91: 54 12 (Divisional playoff format)
91-92: 71 28 (Divisional playoff format)
92-93: 83 37 (Divisional playoff format)
93-94: 69 24 made playoffs
94-95: 47 34 made playoffs (strike season)
95-96: 67 52 made playoffs
96-97: 77 46 made playoffs
97-98: 76 52 made playoffs
98-99: 66 31 missed playoffs
99-00: 62 21 made playoffs
00-01: 82 45 made playoffs
01-02: 77 39 missed playoffs
02-03: 76 30 made playoffs
03-04: 54 21 traded


Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

The Nats put Dmitri Young on the DL with issues related to his diabetes. How would the Caps declare this? upper body injury?

Posted by: pframpton | July 21, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Bondra is no Labre

Posted by: Ivan Labre | July 21, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Bondra was no labre
labre was no berube
and berube was no killer kaminski

Posted by: Berube woman | July 21, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm pretty sure not even Killer would agree that Killer > Bondra.

Posted by: Jordan | July 21, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Who would win in a fight between berube and kaminski?

Posted by: 68 | July 21, 2008 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Katie was right...this is painful.

Posted by: Jill | July 21, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

If someone makes the NHL Hall of Fame retire his number otherwise thank them for their service

Posted by: wendel | July 21, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Bondra had 55 points in 73 career playoff games as a Cap or .753 points per game.

825 points in 961 games in the regular season as a Cap. That ends up being .858 points per game.

Not exactly disappearing in the playoffs from a statistical standpoint.

I can see both arguments for and against Bondra, but agree that Bondra should be lower that Kolzig on the Rafter watch list.

It would be nice to have another option beyond jersey retirment and ignoring the player.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 21, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Actually, a team can retire any damn number they please, for whatever reason. That's why Labre's is up there. The team ownership/management appreciated what he put out there for them in all those bad years and decided to honor his contributions. Not saying whether they should retire Bondra's, Kolzig's, etc., but there's no hard-and-fast set of standards you can point to. It's all subjective.

Posted by: OldPhil | July 21, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

caps all time records:
goals - 1. bondra
assists - 5. bondra
pp goals - 1. bondra
sh goals - 1. bondra
gwg - 1. bondra
+/- - 5. bondra
games played - 2. bondra
of course, he's just renting alot of these records...

goalie wins - 1. olie
games played - 1. olie
gaa - 3. olie
save % - 1. olie
shut outs - 1. olie
in fact, take away jim carrey's rediculous year and there is nobody else even close in many of these categories.

i think with most teams, stats like that get you in the rafters (in my opinion)

Posted by: Cap Fan 1 | July 21, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

ESPN?:
Crosby wins awards and gets recognition because he is a poster boy - an exceptional, young Canadian hockey player who is not homely.

Kolzig's # will be retired - it is not a question of if but when ... I would bet $$$ on it.

Posted by: Boo! | July 21, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Boo,

What if Olie hangs on for another 5 years, playing in the SE, against us? Will it become harder to justify hanging the banner, or would he still be a lock?

Posted by: Steve R | July 21, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Excuse me, he scored 472 goals with the caps. Thats certainly a record.

Posted by: 68 | July 21, 2008 1:58 PM

that'll only last another 5 years or so

Posted by: Anonymous | July 21, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Boo,

Oh yea, thanks for your comments re: the king talk. I thought what I was saying was pretty clear but the reaction from king whichever had me wondering if I was talking is Japanese. There was a major disconnect.

Posted by: Steve R | July 21, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

As always another day goes by and the fans in DC are some of the toughest - doesn't seem to me that anyone on the board deserves a retired jersey according to the blog today. Let us try again tomorrow! I think the most worthy right now may be Langway or Hunter,
But if my memory serves me well wasn't my man Joe Sakic Washington Rights and wasn't that trade what brought us Huntsie to begin with?? I know numbers seems to everything here, but isn't character and dedication to the club good traits to throw into the mix for retiring numbers and doesn't every club have a different requirement as to who's number gets retired - Caps Fans - relinquish no mercy once again!!!!

Posted by: Greenie | July 21, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Can we start a petition for a 3 pt system?

3 points for a win...2 for a shootout win, and 1 for a shootout loss.

3 pts at stake a game....Nuff Said...

Posted by: I hate the pt system. | July 21, 2008 10:50 AM


NO! what the NHL needs is
TWO points for a win in regulation
ONE point for winning in OT/SO
absolutely NO points for a loss!

Posted by: McJagr | July 21, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

udenver,

who is Gordie Hall?

Posted by: Anonymous | July 21, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

@ Sombrero Guy

Mike Gartner has 789 points in 758 regular season games averaging 1.04 points per game and 43 points in 47 playoff games averaging .914 points per game.

Gartner's regular season and playoff average numbers are better than Bondra's, why isn't he in the rafters?

I noticed something telling when doing this. Bondra had two 50 goal seasons and two more seasons of 45 goals or more. Yet his highest single season point total was 85 points (during one of the 84 game seasons in which he played 83 games). Bondra never achieved a 90 point season when he got at least half that way with goals.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

I hate the shoot out deciding 1 point or 2. All it takes is three in a row, back hand high glove side and that's all she wrote.

But, we do need to remember that trick if we go to shoot outs against Tampa with Olie in net.

Posted by: Steve R | July 21, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Is Mike Gartner remembered as one of the faces of the franchise? I mean, honestly?

Posted by: Jordan | July 21, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Sorry for the typo. Gordie Howe.

Posted by: UDenver | July 21, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Hate to be a stuck record (hey, that dates me), but even though you guys keep regurgitating more stats in more creative ways, I'm telling you the stats mean nothin'. If you had a legitimate career and Abe (or Ted) liked you a lot there's a good chance your number's gonna be up there.

Posted by: OldPhil | July 21, 2008 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Steve:
Yup, even if he sticks around for 5 years playing against us (not that I think that will happen), Olie deserves to have his # retired. Granted, I don't think it should happen while he is playing against us, but eventually. He was the face of this club for a long time. He was with the Caps longer than "99%" of players are with one team. He stayed when he could have left and he did a lot for the community. I think he is a lock. Again, not if but when. RE: King, it did have a bit of an Asian flair (kind of like fusion cuisine), but was very clear, nontheless ... ;-)

Posted by: Boo! | July 21, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse

@Jordan

Mike Gartner was a better player than Peter Bondra. When he was with the team, yes, he was one of the faces of the franchise. In fact when he was inducted into the Hall of Fame he went in as a Washington Capital.

Mike Gartner played in 203 more games than Mike Gartner, yet he only scored 36 more points than Gartner did in their Caps careers.

The more I look at the numbers, the more I don't think Bondra deserves the honor. He played in 1081 NHL games and had a grand total of 389 assists! That has got to be one of, if not the worst, ratio of assists to games played for a player with 500 career goals and over 800 points (892).

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | July 21, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Philadelphia Flyers Head Coach John Stevens has been named Coach of the Year by The Hockey News.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 21, 2008 6:25 PM | Report abuse

You mean someone outside of Washington doesn't think BB was coach of the year??

The nerve!!

Posted by: . | July 21, 2008 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Peter Bondra didn't have a crapload of assists because he generally played with Michal Pivonka, whose job description was esstially "Wait for Peter to get open and feed him the puck." Bondra was the finisher, Pivo was the set-up guy.

Also, who cares? I tried to end this discussion nicely already when I said we just have differing opinions on the player. You're not gonna change my mind and I'm not gonna change yours, ya knucklehead.

Posted by: Jordan | July 21, 2008 6:38 PM | Report abuse

The "only" jersey we should see hanging in the rafters is Langways......I don't think any of the others should be there, and any of the other you all are talking about should be either....Langway saved the the Caps from leaving and was a complete ALL star/Stud for the years he was here. If Stevens had stayed here, he might be the only other one I would consider.First consideration should be , is he in the Hall of Fame.

Posted by: only one deserves it | July 21, 2008 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Little children, let me introduce you to http://www.myspace.com

It's the playground you're looking for. Have at it.

Posted by: keef | July 21, 2008 7:21 PM | Report abuse

In an attempt to talk some hockey...

Game 1 of the Caps/Flyers playoff series is on NHL Network right now.

All I know is that if Erskine is a starting D-man next season, that doesn't bode well. Sure, he is a tough guy, and he occassionally makes a good defensive play, but he has no puck handling abilities -- he also flips the puck as soon as an opposing player is within 10 feet of him. He takes just an amazing amount of poor minor penalties. He simply doesn't fit within the Caps system.

The Flyers just scored to tie the game at 1, and it was because nobody was within 5 feet of the Flyer player screening Huet off the faceoff (Green and Mo were on-ice).

And while I'm at it...re-watching this game knowing more about Mo's injuries -- it is clear (to me) the injuries REALLY hurt his play.

Posted by: Jeff | July 21, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Hey Moe! Who are calling knuckle head? Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk WooWooWooWoooooWooWoo

Posted by: Curly | July 21, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

@ Jeff

I though Mo didnt get hurt in game 1. It came at some point in the series

Posted by: Anonymous | July 21, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Mo and Green were on the ice for a lot of Flyers goals

those 2 arent that good

Posted by: Anonymous | July 21, 2008 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Only One Deserves It, I agree that Langway's jersey should be hangin' in the rafters but he definitely shouldn't be the only one. I mean their are are quite a few other players who deserve it more or the same amount that Rod does.

One other guy I haven't heard too many people mention is Darren Veitch. He was our 1st round pick in '80 and had his best years with us. He was a great defensemen who put up spankin' numbers with us. But I also agree that Kolzig deserves it a bunch as he did everything he could for us and had a heart of gold.

Posted by: A.R. Chamberlin | July 21, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Instead of retiring numbers, why dont the Caps do like every other team in the league and name a Hall of Fame just for the team.

That way all those obscure folks who provided good yrs to the caps can be recognized. Save the retiring of numbers for only the most deserved

Posted by: Tommmy | July 21, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Mo was hurt April 1st vs. Carolina. At the time they said it was a shoulder injury (I think). After the playoffs Tarik reported GMGM said he had a broken jaw for a couple weeks and wasn't able to eat any solid food and lost a lot of weight during the playoffs.

And while Mo and Green didn't have a great series defensively vs. the Flyers, I would say part of that is due to Mo's limitations. He has never had a minus season in his NHL career, which is 278 games. And remember, he's typically up against the other teams best players (even before Green took off offensively this season).

Posted by: Jeff | July 21, 2008 7:33 PM | Report abuse

Didnt Tarik say that the jaw happened from a hit during the series?

Posted by: Tommmy | July 21, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Tommmy -- yes, I think...but I think there were 2 separate injuries. He had a separated shoulder or something from the Carolina game which is what is pretty apparent in this replay I'm watching.

Posted by: Jeff | July 21, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse

I was under the impression that both injuries happened during the series. Now if he did have a separated shoulder that limits his ability before the series even started, I seriously questions managements decision to allow him to play.

A 100% healthy rookie D man is way better than a 25% MO IMHO

Posted by: Tommmy | July 21, 2008 7:40 PM | Report abuse

He definitely was hurt prior to the series (I've gone back and read about it...it happened April 1st) -- but nobody ever really said what that injury was around the time it happened. I THOUGHT it was said later that it was a separated shoulder, but I've been upable to find it in print yet.

Posted by: Jeff | July 21, 2008 7:43 PM | Report abuse

The shoulder happened before the Playoffs - he was out for a game or two after he injured it.

Posted by: keef | July 21, 2008 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Here is a piece from TSN on Toronto honoring a couple of #'s
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=244004&lid=sublink02&lpos=headlines_main

Posted by: speakin of retired #'s | July 21, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

Interesting article about Emery:
http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=654431
What a mess ... man am I glad that we didn't sign that guy.

Posted by: Boo! | July 21, 2008 8:47 PM | Report abuse

Maybe we can honor certain non-numbers in the rafters caliber Capitals with concession stand food products.

Calle Johansen Swedish Meatball Sub
Olaf Kolzig Kielbasa
Bonsai Stroganov

Posted by: JSchon | July 21, 2008 9:00 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to see a few team goals this upcomming season....feel free to add your input

Division Champion
Top 5 in power play
Top 8 in Penatly killing

I have more, but want to hear yours as well

Posted by: Capfannmiss | July 21, 2008 9:09 PM | Report abuse

1. ECF

Posted by: JSchon | July 21, 2008 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Division Champ is good, but I would like to see this team shoot for being in the top 3 of the Conference based on points outright (not just getting the third spot because they win the Division).

Posted by: Kim | July 21, 2008 9:16 PM | Report abuse

We won the Division last year, and quite frankly, barring a catastrophe, we are far and away the best team in the Division and should win it going away.

Set the bar high. Make it to the ECF. Win, loss it doesnt matter, just make it. That would be great achievement, not lofty. Winning the SE is expected, by us, by most hockey people outside of Tampa.

Posted by: JSchon | July 21, 2008 9:21 PM | Report abuse

@ Kim
Do you have a point prediction?....goal??
I'd love to see 105
@ JSchon
That was another I had

I also want this team to be a terror in the booth.......make it a place where nobody wants to play....what was out home record last season? 30 home wins doable?

Posted by: Capfannmiss | July 21, 2008 9:23 PM | Report abuse

To add... I would except a series victory in the play-offs and good loss in another, but not winning a playoff series this season would be a huge disappointment... not a set back...

SC Victory - Off the charts surprise
SC Loser - Completely unexpected
EC Loser - A great season
Semi's loser - acceptable outcome
1st Rd loser - big time disappointment

Not making the play-offs? devastating season and a step backwards.

Posted by: JSchon | July 21, 2008 9:37 PM | Report abuse

Don't have time for long arguments, but ... Kolzig and Bondra both deserve to have their numbers retired, for a combination of: 1) talent and consistency over a decade-long stretch, winning league-wide distinction; 2) total identification as Caps, singular in modern free-agency sports; 3) being mainstays of the '98 SCF run, to date the franchise's greatest achievement.

Posted by: Jim H | July 22, 2008 2:21 AM | Report abuse

Jeff: I watched that game also on NHL Network. The Caps played badly on the D end, giveaways and broken coverage. That was also a big problem in the game Jurcina gave the puck away. Mo was hurt and Schultz were out. My opinion is Jurcina and Erskine are 4th pair defensemen. The team still lacks a shutdown d-man. I expect a trade before the season starts.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 7:00 AM | Report abuse

I agree with Tom. Still in need of a top notch shut down guy. Alzner is that type of player, but I'm not sure he can step right into that role at such a young age.

Posted by: BearsWoooo | July 22, 2008 7:12 AM | Report abuse

@Tom

Do you think we are going to win the Stanley Cup this year?

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 7:44 AM | Report abuse

Who would we trade for a worthy shutdown guy? Who would that player end up being?

Posted by: Jordan | July 22, 2008 7:57 AM | Report abuse

Patience...
Despite having a young defense (team really), poor goaltending for the majority of the year, missing 3 key players and having Hanlon coach the first 21 games we managed to make the play-offs.

Why trade for a S@H D guy for this year? Why not let the guys we have get another year underneath their belt? We can re-evaluate the guys after this year.

Based on the play-offs performances, you could argue that the entire defense needs to be replaced. Poti, Jurcina, Erskine, Schultz and Mo all played way below their talent levels. Based on play-off performances we shouldve kept Eminger.

Unless you think we got a legit shot at winning the Cup this year.

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 8:06 AM | Report abuse

JSchon:
Based on what happened last season, I do think we have a shot at the cup. I would not say it is probable, but it is definitely possible. But I agree with Tom - we need a S@H D man. Now, if Juice plays consistently, Schultz fills out, Mo is OK and Alzner comes up proving to really be all that and a bag of chips, then we might be OK. I think Poti and Erskine are what they are at this point in their careers, but that the others have a lot of growth potential (key word - POTENTIAL ... it is not a given that they will excel, but I do think that it is up to them how much they progress).

Posted by: Boo! | July 22, 2008 8:15 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't be surprised to see Nylander get delt somewhere. I dont know what the Caps would get in return, but they could free up some cap space by moving him.

As far as retired numbers go, I would wait until Olie is retired before even considering hanging his number from the rafters.

I like the idea of a Caps Hall of Fame. Its a good way to recognize great Caps without cluttering the rafters with numbers.

Posted by: Tim | July 22, 2008 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Boo!

I guess my point is that unless you think you have a legitimate shot at the Stanley Cup, keep your young guys long enough to see how they develop, or at least until the trade line when players become cheaper.

If we are 1st place in the East at the tradeline, then I could see us making a play for someone.

I doubt anything happens prior to the start of the season unless there are injuries.

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse

I meant to add in there that I would rather fill the rafters with division, conference and Stanley Cup banners :)

Posted by: Tim | July 22, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse

JSchon:

I agree exactly with what Boo! said. I could see moving Kozlov and trying to get a Bob Rouse type player, to pull a name from the past. He won't win the Cup by himself, but he would give experience. Another possibility is to move Semin. I am worried he might bolt in two years for the KHL. You only trade Semin though for a 1st pair d-man with excellent defensive skills. I believe the Caps have the forwards to win the Cup but the goaltending and defense are a big question. They could do it, but most likely a team like Detroit would just exploit the weaknesses over a 6- or 7-game series and prevail.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 8:27 AM | Report abuse

JSchon: You have an excellent point - wait for the trade deadline. However, it might work to trade Kozzie and Jurcina and get a better d-man and then let Gordon or Fehr play forward (we have 14 forwards now). That also fits into your logic of "let the young players develop." That is very true, the right move for the organization, but works for forwards as well as defensemen. Also, a trade might help with the cap.

Tim: I believe Nylander has a no-trade.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

One final note, "why I expect a trade." Sombrero Guy has put the cap figures up. We have 14 forwards. Fehr has a two-way, but must pass waivers. Counting Alzner, every penny Mo gets above $1.018M is "over the cap" (assuming Pothier LTIR). I "expect a trade" first because it must happen - either that or release someone. If you move Kozzie and keep Fehr, you let a young guy develop (hopefully) and you save $1.75M in cap space. If you trade Kozzie and Jurcina for a $2M d-man, again using Fehr, you are saving about $700K - maybe just enough to squeeze in Mo's salary if he gets $1.7M (there was $1M space).

Sorry to expound if this is too much data, but it requires all the logic to make sense.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Boo! and some others think we have a legit shot at winning the Cup. Barely making the play-offs to winning the Cup is an astronomical jump. I think the ECF would be an amazing season. I'd love to trade Kozlov and let Fehr play 1st RW, but how valuable is Kozlov to another team. Scoring 50 points on a line OV and Backstrom isnt especially impressive.

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse

@ Tim
Sorry to beat a dead horse , but Nylander has a NO TRADE clause in his contract..... that might be one hurdle in trying to trade him.....I think we need to all just sit back and see how the team develops as is......they might surprise us.

There is also this thing called team unity....these guys have it. You start moving guys around and trading some and all the sudden you lose that. This team loves to do everything together. They look forward to going to practice.

On OV and being a captain....he might not have the "C" , but he is definetly the leader. After we signed Jose, he calls him and welcomes him to the team......do we need to say anymore?

Posted by: Dead Horse | July 22, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone know when the players report to camp?

Is it Mid September?

Posted by: Roncpacapsfan | July 22, 2008 8:47 AM | Report abuse

I would not be in any hurry to trade off Kozlov for a few reasons. First, the guy was a plus 28 on the season. He has good chemistry with OV. He is good in the corners and is hard to gt off of th puck when he has it. This should even be a better year for him being his second season here, sometimes the first season with a new team is a "break in" time.

Last reason, the guy is a STUD in shoot-outs, he is over 50% lifetime in shoot-outs, and don't take this lightly, because of the additional points in the shoot-outs. I would be tempted to keep him for this reason alone. Bad teams that do well in shoot-outs stay in contention, and good teams that do well in shoot-outs pull away from the pack.

Kozlov for president.......I am done campaigning!

Posted by: Capfannmiss | July 22, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Maybe I'm too much of a Juice fan but I think you have to keep him for another year. When he came onto the team, he was a beast. Last season, not so much.

Was he playing for a contract when he showed up? Possibly. If so, he'll be doing the same this season.

With the number of chances allowed under Boudreau's system, maybe the D was asked to play different this year than in the past. Perhaps they just need another year finding their way in the system?

Maybe I'm just an optimist.

Posted by: keef | July 22, 2008 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Who is the most expendable?

Fehr, Flash, Gordon, Steckel

Jurcina or Erskine

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

JSchon:

I don't think it's astronomical at all for the Caps to do like the Pens did last year and go from 1st-Round loser to Cup finalist. I'd say Caps have about as good as shot as any to make Cup Finals from the East. My only point in moving Kozlov is mainly to get some cap space. He was like 25th last year in scoring for RWs, and that was with OV. He has good points for sure, see above from Capfannmiss. $2.5M is a lot of money though if say Clark can be #1 RW and then Laich maybe #2 and Fehr #3 and you get the same points.

Your trade deadline idea is excellent, but you need to be $750K under the cap for example to get a $3M guy (prorated for 1/4 of the season).

It is also possible to move Kozlov for a draft pick and then get the $2M d-man when the "over the cappers" jettison players just before the season. It is almost certain someone will be moved, unless Clark is LTIR, and it will be interesting to see who.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Nylander isn't going anywhere. He has a no movement clause and we need a 1st or 2nd line center after federov leaves.

I would ditch Jurcina and trade chris clark if anyone wants him.

Posted by: Wanax | July 22, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

68: All the people you put as most expendable are also mostly the cheapest. I would never, ever move Steckel as he gives so much for $500K. Jurcina is $950K and the other guys are $750K (Fehr, Gordon, Flash) and $500K (Erskine). Erskine at his salary you keep as the 7th d-man for when you have injuries. My opinion is once Mo is signed, somewhere along the line a higher salary must be moved if Alzner makes the team.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

@JSchon and Tom in FL + others....
Do you really think Fehr is going to get the job done or is he one we are considering as a "potential" player? I think Gordon has what it takes, but I have yet to see the consistency from Fehr. I think if we move Kozzie, it needs to be to the West coast so he doesn't pick our "D" apart and haunt us. As for Juice, he is terrible, don't think he has what it takes-too tentative for a guy that size!!!Send him packing!!!! As for the rest of the "D" we have potential, but I'm getting impatient with some of the guys - would love to see "Mo" have a stellar year and I hope Green backs-up that big snazzy contract - just saying! I'm optimistic, think the best two deals we made were Feds and Laich!!!
@JSchon - I'm glad Feds is returning!!! I know you already know that!!!! Just wanted to remind you....................

Posted by: Greenie | July 22, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for carrying the kozzylove load, Capfannmiss. I tire of being his only supporter all the time.

Whoever said replacing kozlov with fehr might be a good idea is on drugs. Maybe in three years, but now? For real?

Posted by: Jordan | July 22, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Wanax: Clark and Kozlov make the same money. You would keep Kozlov over Clark? It's really kind of close, but I'd keep Clark. I believe he brings more in total.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Tom in Fla

I realize that they are the cheaper guys but we are going to have to drop more than one player anyway. Jurcina, and fehr or flash gives you 1.7 million. Is that enough room?

Maybe a trade will happen and solve these problems.

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

I wasn't aware of a Nylander no trade clause. Please excuse my ignorance. Someone has to be moved before opening night though.

Posted by: Tim | July 22, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Clark just seems overpaid to me. It is probably because Kozlov just looks better on the ice and Clark was out last year.

Clark is grittier and will go to the net and fight. But Kozlov is incredible with the puck and in shootouts.

I guess you just have to take your pick.

Posted by: Wanax | July 22, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Maybe Clark isn't healthy yet and he can go on long term injury for a while.

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Jordan: I am not on drugs. I had a test at work a few months back. I didn't say replace Kozzie with Fehr. Clark replaces Kozzie; Laich replaces Clark; and Fehr replaces Laich. Big difference. And I don't dislike Kozlov at all. It's just the numbers.

68: Your numbers work. I was just trying to work the cap and improve the D at the same time.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Tom

What defenseman would you try to get?

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Everyone is in such a hurry...

BB has only been coach for 68 games...
He has had the use of this entire roster for grand total of ZERO days.

He took a struggling young team and turned them into a playoff team. Lets see what BB can do with Fedorov for a year, Nylander with 2 shoulders, Clark with 2 groins and everyone 1 year older and wiser.

He didnt win the Adams because he listened to the commenter's on TEB's Blog.

Trust in BB.

I'm all for making moves when they make sense... I'll trade the entire team if it calls for it...

@Greenie
Fedorov came at a steep price, but its 1 year... I can wait to see him play 18mpg and average .75ppg.

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

can't wait

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

68: Probably the best move is like JSchon says and wait for the trade deadline. Then you get a guy like last year when Detroit got Brad Stuart. Only thing is, he made $3.5M - prorated to $900K for 1/4 season. So you need to be $900K under the cap all year up to that point. That is why perhaps I am in a bit more of a "hurry" than some others - I want the space so the deal can be made.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

what does the cap look like if we leave alzner in minors and keep everyone we have?

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

@JSchon......
I guess we will see if he is worth the paycheck, I was thinking more like 110% guidence for 75% of the team under the age of 26(the 18mpg and average .75ppg was the bonus(I believe that would be approx. 62 points this season +/- and that could mean 10 additional games won - correct??) I know it's a steep price, but at least it's only 1 year!!!! How do you like those numbers??? ha ha - scary I think like you guys now!!!!!

Posted by: Greenie | July 22, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

68: I am trying to remember from what Sombrero Guy posted. I think he said, incl Alzner, the club had $1.018M for Mo. Leave Alzner in Hershey then and you would have $2.7M for Mo and the prorated portion of the deadline acquisition's salary. Your idea is a very plausible solution, maybe more likely than trading a vet. I want Alzner on the club though, maybe wishful thinking, because I hope he can bring more than Jurcina. I really lose confidence if Erskine and Jurcina are the 3rd pair, although you can do as suggested in your scenario and fix it at the deadline. The patience approach is very plausible.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

@68

The problem I think is that Alzner needs to play this year, keeping a kid like that in the AHL aint going to do much for him. Plus, he's already better than Erskine and Jurcina and maybe Schultz.

Heck as long as he can clear the puck or make a clearing pass he's already better than Erskine and Jurcina.

@Greenie

Your numbers look pretty accurate. This team on paper looks really good, a couple question marks, but other than Detroit, everyone has question marks.

ECF.

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

There is also the possibility that lepisto might earn a spot in training camp. I thought he played good when he got called up last year. I bet he is pretty cheap.

I hope they don't rush alzner.

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

assuming Pothier is on long term injured reserve, and including the Clymer buyout

The Caps have $1,018,899 left under the salary cap

That includes the salaries for 22 players leaving only Morrisonn unsigned. The list, from highest cap number to lowest is...

Ovechkin, Green, Nylander, Semin, Theodore, Fedorov, Poti, Clark, Kozlov, Backstrom, Laich, Alzner, Brashear, Bradley, Jurcina, Johnson, Schultz, Fehr, Flash, Steckel, Erskine.

If you remove Alzner from that list, you would have 21 rostered players and would have $2,693,899 left under the cap. You would still need to re-sign Mo with that money, and would only have a 22 man roster at that point. You're allowed to have less than 23 players, and the Caps may have to do just that provided they're all healthy.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Plus having a top 15 goalie for the entire season, not just 18 games.

Theodore > Kolzig
Theodore = Huet

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Tom in FL, misguided until the end.

Clark has two groins.. Comedy gold.

Posted by: Jordan | July 22, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Clark should be traded for a used ball bag.

Posted by: Clark is overrated | July 22, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

I am going to take a wait and see approach with Alzner. I guess I am not seeing the "talent" that will equate to the NHL immediately.

As far as the Eastern Conference Championship goes. Goaltending has to step up, obviously defense has to be a bit tighter, reduce injuries to key players and someone other than Green, OV, Semin has to put the puck in the net. Hopefully it will be Fehr. I really liked the way he responded in the playoffs.

Posted by: The #94 | July 22, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

i second the clark trade proposal. a used ball bag would be a pretty good deal. Maybe we could even give them jurcina.

Posted by: unday | July 22, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Jordan:

??Clark has two groins.. Comedy gold.??

I didn't write "Clark has two groins." Someone else did. To be honest, I don't know if we have one groin or one on each side (like with hamstring I think).

I'm not a doctor. I'm not a professional hockey analyst either. It's just easier to pretend to be one rather than the other.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Clark scored 30 goals his last full season, played tough in front of the net, was excellent on the PK and is a leader. I would take Clark over many players.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Who is rating Clark to call him overrated? Clark is character guy, not scared, plays with pain, willing to sacrifice and can play on any line...

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

You have two groin abductor muscles, one of the right and one on the left.

Clark hurt one of them, not sure which. I'm pretty sure he is only getting treatment on one of them since the other one isnt injured. If not, then no wonder the guy isnt ready hit the ice.

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't leave the physical therapist.

Posted by: Chris Bourque | July 22, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I just don't understand why everyone is in love with clark. Sure he scored 30 goals two years ago, but that seems like a fluke. I mean he played with ovie all year and he had to score because we didn't have anyone else.

Now he is gonna play on the third line and get paid too much money for a third line guy.

Posted by: unday | July 22, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

If clark comes back will he be the captain again? Seems like its Ovie's team now.

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

@unday

Dude... Either Nylander or Fedorov will be centering the 3rd line.

This years 3rd line wont be a checking line either.

Maybe Clark never get 30 goals again... maybe he is a 20 goal guy, fine by me. He is only getting paid $2,666,667 (only?@#$%#@$^?).

The fact that we might see Fedorov and Clark on the 3rd line should make you happy. It means we're deep and talented.

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

I don't hate the guy. He is good but I would rather have Kozlov. And If we have to shed payroll and it has to be one of the two I say bye bye to clark.

He should not be the captain either. We didn't do too well under his leadership.

Posted by: unday | July 22, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Next summer...

UFA's
Fedorov
Kozlov
Brashear
Steckel
Johnson
Erskine
Laing

RFA's
Fehr
Gordon
Jurcina
Bourque
Lepisto
Schultz

Who do we keep?

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 11:23 AM | Report abuse

UFA's - keep Steckel and maybe kozlov if price is right

RFA's - everyone but Jurcina unless he improves

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Fehr probably needs to show some improvement this year. I know he's been hurt but its time for him to step up.

Posted by: Wanax | July 22, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Kozlov managed 53 points with 18 goals with Backstrom and Ovechkin as linemates...

Clark got 54 points with 30 goals with Novotny and Ovechkin as linemates...

Toughness - ADV Clark
Grit - ADV Clark
Passing - ADV Koz
Scoring - ADV Clark
PK - ADV Clark
PP - ADV Clark
Being a teddy bear - ADV Koz
Penalty Shot - ADV Koz
Speaks Russian - ADV Koz
Leadership - ADV Clark
Versatility - ADV Clark
Age - ADV Clark
Spinning around in circles with puck - ADV Koz
Healthier groin - ADV Koz

Its pretty close...

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

I have doubts about Clark's leadership skills. We were awful under his leadership and i think he inherited it because he was the oldest guy on the team (that wasn't a goalie). Now he misses an entire year, playoff round, etc. and he is gonna ride in on his rested groin and tell everyone what to do.

Give me a break. His leadership skills are the most overrated. He is a good hockey player at a decent price but lets not turn the guy into Stevey Y.

Posted by: unday | July 22, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Its hard to say who we keep until we see how the AHL'ers develop but I would guess at this point


UFA's
Steckel

RFA's
Fehr
Gordon
Bourque
Lepisto
Schultz


we could end up keeping a lot of the guys I took off, including Koz, Jurcina (if he bounces back). It will all depend on the salary cap and development of the AHLers.

Johnson is gone. We should have Varlamov ready to take his place.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Who is the backup next year?

Varlamov or Neuvirth?

Posted by: Wanax | July 22, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Again, who is comparing him to Stevie Y? You? Certainly not me.

And how would any of us know what his leadership skills he processes in the locker room? We have only his play on the ice to look at.

Clark, average skill, average size, not scared, plays above his talent...

Kozlov, above average skill, way above average size, plays like a delicate flower, underachieves...

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Oh, so it's "The94" now...

It's either Rog or you are wearing a cape...

LOL

Backup next year, IMO, is Varlamov, he seems confident enough, and that goes a long way.

Posted by: Super | July 22, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

I know this will never happen, but I would settle for watching arbitration hearings on NHL Center Ice. At least they're talking hockey.

I've been told by friends who have attended a bunch of hearings in different sports, that most of the time they are dull: "We think X is like y and z who make $1 and $1.1, not like A and B who make $5 and 5.4", but every now and then they get nasty. "Player is a clubhouse poison, lazy, etc." Apparently, Sean Avery's was really ugly last time. The Rangers almost came right out and said he sucked. A beer and popcorn and that would be must see tv.

Posted by: old time hockey | July 22, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

@JSchon

We have a team full of talented European forwards. Kozlov is one of them. He can make plays and moves that Clark cannot. He works well with ovechkin and backstrom. and can play some center if needed.

We don't play dump and chase canadien style hockey. He play more like a european team. Kozlov is more valuable to the caps style of play than clark is. Plus Kozlov is perfect in shootouts and appears to have two functioning groin muscles.

As for clark's leadership skill, I obviously wasn't there to see it. But the only evidence we have of his leadership is the decision to give him the "C". I am supposed to believe a guy is a leader because Hanlon made him the captain. Also, He didn't get the guys in line when hanlon's job was in jeopardy.

Posted by: unday | July 22, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

@JSchon & unday.....
Good points both of you, but Kozie still has something left in the tank - We know that he underachieves in postseason/playoffs, but he is consistently "sick/unbelievable at times" with the stick in the opposing offensive zone - which makes him a threat all the time. Clarke on the other hand has the GRIT/Tenacity I would love to see in Kozie - grit and tenacity are hard to find these days - Teddy Bear Kozie was hitting the nail on the head JSchon!! Both are good and comparable and would be a loss no matter who!! @JSchon you are right on with the UFA's & RFA's couldn't have listed it any better myself!
Is it October YET!!!!!!!! I'm ready already!!

Posted by: Greenie | July 22, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

unday: How can you know truly about Clark's leadership? It's the other players who determine who is the leader. When it was time to pick a Captain, OV said he wasn't ready and they picked Clark. The players apparently respect him.

I feel Clark and Fedorov together make a wonderful 3rd line, as that puts them for the PK also, if that's how it works out. Clark could be #1, 2 or 3 RW and Feds can be #1, 2 or 3 C, although neither can handle OV's minutes and play on the PK. Laich mixes in as a great LW with this group too. They aren't a "checking line," as has been stated, but they would be the "forward line with the best defense."

Watching how BB constructs the lines in Sept will be very interesting. Gordon could be on 3rd line too, depending.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Didn't GMGM say something to the effect of needing to add more "NA-style forwards" after the playoffs? How many times did we see the Caps stay mostly on the perimeter and fail to get a scoring chance off a rebound. Clark is the type of player that'll park himself in the front of the net.

Posted by: tallbear | July 22, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

I just don't think clark has been a very good leader.

1. We played better without him.
2. We have had fewer Semin screwups.
3. He allowed the team to give up and look so bad that hanlon had to be fired.

Posted by: unday | July 22, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

woah woah woah. Clark hasn't even played under BB except for what, 1 or 2 games? To say Clark isn't a good captain because the team was poor when he was a Captain ignores the unflux of talent and the replacing of Hanlon that took plact last season, which Clark missed most of.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Unday, to use your language: I just don't think your analysis makes very good sense. LOTS of other variables were involved, not just whether or not Clark was playing. If he can regain his health and playing form, the coach/players will know who should be captain, not us blog bleaters.

Posted by: OldPhil | July 22, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

unflux should be influx. By bad!

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Genious

The Arizona Cardinals must have an issue with Dallas Fans at their games..i.e. Pittsburgh at the Verizon.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/New-ticket-plan-aims-to-keep-Dallas-fans-out-of-?urn=nfl,94980

I have no problem's with a 5 game package needing to be bought to get a seat to the Pens games...thoughts?

Posted by: SA_Town | July 22, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

SA-Town, I don't think those ticket packages work. Out-of-towners buy them and stubhub the other games. Or locals buy them and root for the Caps against the other teams.

Posted by: tallbear | July 22, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

To All - again we will not have a vote or even be able to submit suggestions - I think the suggestion box is missing!!! Did Tarik take it on vacation with him?
Captain is picked by players/coaches - period! (and last time I checked no one on this blog was listed on the Caps roster!)
сумасшедший хоккей fans - English translation is.... "Crazy hockey fans"

Posted by: Greenie | July 22, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

If I were an out of towner, I would totally buy a 5 game package, take the game I want and then sell off the other 4 on Stub Hub or even Ebay.

Posted by: Tommmy | July 22, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Kyle McLaren.

Someone asked who I would trade Kozlov for. McLaren makes the same $2.5M this year coming and is also UFA at the end of the year. Sharks need LWs. Honestly, though, I haven't seen McLaren play for some time, but remember him with Boston as a really tough customer. Toss in Jurcina and get back a draft pick. Toughens the D, helps the cap and provides an opportunity for a younger forward to step up.

This move could be made before season or at deadline.

Disclaimer: Again, I haven't seen him play lately, but if it's the McLaren I remember then this is the kind of deal I was talking about.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

A lot of the local Pens fans root for the Caps when they're playing other teams. I know because somehow they are always sitting right behind me :p

Posted by: honed | July 22, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

I kind of understand what unday is saying about Clark and the 'C.'

It just seems like he isnt putting it into the right words.

He is right, with Clark in the lineup the team did not perform. We dont see what goes on behind closed doors but publicly there was no ownership shown from him.

When the coach's job was on the line we only saw the product on the ice not being motivated. Part of that falls to the Captain.

But there are different types of Captains. Lead by example type and the rule with an iron fist type. I prefer a combo of both.
But to us, we did see Clark leading, thats not to say he didnt

Posted by: Anonymous | July 22, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

McLaren would be interesting, but i think he has a lot of injury issues. Missed a lot of games with a bum knee last season. Only played in 5 of the Shark's playoff games...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?code=1312&name=Kyle+McLaren&hubname=nhl-sharks

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

From JSchon: "Heck as long as he can clear the puck or make a clearing pass he's already better than Erskine and Jurcina."

Amen to that my man.

I don't know how more people aren't campaigning to get rid of Jurcina. He's a monster, but he plays so soft and is always giving the puck away-and at the worst of times at that. Not saying Eskine is any better, but at least he's tough...

Posted by: Fro | July 22, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

I like the mclaren idea. i would give up kozzie for an experienced shutdown dman. Mclaren or whoever could provide some more instruction to some of our youger defensive dmen.

We all rave about the job Federov did with some of the forwards (semin, etc.) why not bring in a dman to help tutor the blueliners.

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

One other thing that has soured Clark in my mind. This isn't his fault but every time i saw that clark commercial where he talks about all of the injuries he plays through and dealing with pain it made me want to throw up. Who decided to keep running that commercial anyway?

Posted by: unday | July 22, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

68: Sombrero Guy pointed out that McLaren had injuries last year, so maybe he doesn't work, but that was just what I was talking about. Move Kozzie and Jurcina ($3.45M) and get back around $2.5M, to save $1M on the cap for "deadline acquisition." And the guy you bring in, McLaren or whomever, adds toughness and helps as tutor like Fedorov. Then you bring up Alzner and Erskine becomes d-man #7. The only fly in the whole plan is someone must replace Kozzie. Clark, Laich and Fehr OUGHT to do the trick for RW, with Bouchard as back-up. Gordon OUGHT to be able to do 3rd Line LW? Or Laich if Bouchard makes the team?

As for Clark, the whole team played like crap under Hanlon. I believe it is universally accepted that it was the coach. BB overhauled the system, piece by piece, and it worked.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Fro

Jurcina does seem to turn the puck over at the worst time. As for Erskine, I don't remember him turning it over that much. Maybe he just realizes what will happen when he attempts to pass it.

Also, Jurcina has a cannon but he never shoots. He could at least get the puck on net once a game. Even erskine shoots the puck when given the opportunity.

Posted by: wanax | July 22, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

who is bouchard?

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Jurcina used to shoot quite a bit and displayed better hockey sense when he first came to the team.

This goes back to my earlier point about the fact that he might have been asked to play differently this season than he had in the past and he's either not comfortable with it or he's just young.

Posted by: keef | July 22, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Jurcina was much better when he first arrived.

Hanlon's system was probably easier for a big slow guy. I think he has had almost a full season to adjust to BB's system and if he can't step up his game we need to look elsewhere.

Posted by: wanax | July 22, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

was bouchard at development camp? If so, did anybody see him?

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

JSchon:

Wow ... I was about to say, "I gotcha" regarding your reply to my post, but then I think you slapped me upside the head a bit with your subsequent post (that said you shouldn't be surprised that I think we have a legit shot at the cup).

First, I believe the words that I used were "possible" and "not probable" ... did I not?

Second, it is not unthinkable to imagine that we could progress that much from last season to this season - look at Pitt and Philly over the past two seasons.

Third, given the improvement that the team showed under BB (i.e. they would have had some of the highest points in the league if they had trended the same under Hanlon as they did under BB) AND the fact that they now have playoffs experience, they are BOUND to do better this season.

So, again, legit contender? May not be probable, but is definitely possible. Would you disagree with any of that?

Posted by: Boo! | July 22, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Who do you think is the most overpaid capital?

Posted by: mmmmmmmmmmm | July 22, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Well said Boo!

I agree with Jschon's assessment but with slightly revised analysis

SC Victory - welcome surprise
SC Loser - A great season
EC Loser - acceptable outcome
Semi's loser - acceptable disapointment
1st Rd loser - big time disappointment

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

@Katie Carrera

Mo's arbitration hearing is scheduled for Thursday. Have you heard anything about ongoing negotiations between the two sides, or are they just waiting for the hearing?

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

@ wanax and keef

I didn't realize that Hanlon may have groomed Jurcina into what he is today, rather than utilize him for what he used to be (appreciate the insight). I wonder if BB is having a tough time righting that ship.

Admittedly, I am a newer Caps fan and not being from the area, I don't have the historical knowledge of the Caps (or all that much recent knowledge for that matter). But I still take pride in the fact that I bought my season tickets during the '06-'07 campaign. So many asked why, and now they get it...

Posted by: Fro | July 22, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

@Fro

Well, the thing is, how much direction does the head coach give the D? Isn't Leach around for that. I'm probably Juice's biggest fan but I agree that his play was abysmal for most of last season and it was a night and day difference between how he played the season before.

He definitely stopped shooting the puck halfway through the season and seemed to be caught behind plays.


@mmmmmmmmmmm

The unpopular answer? Feds.

The answer that doesn't mean much since his pay is little in the grand scheme of things? Flash.

My true answer? Green.

Posted by: keef | July 22, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

mmmmmmmmmmm:
Most overpaid? Fed. Love him and glad he stayed, but think we should have gotten him for less (Green is a close second with the same caveat).

Posted by: Boo! | July 22, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

I just hope green keeps playing like he did. 5.2 million is alot (obviously)

Federov is probably the best answer.

What does Nyls make?

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

What does everyone think about Stevens getting coach of the year from The Hockey News?

Posted by: Boo! | July 22, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Anyone ever asked themselves how they would feel about BB, Mike Green, AO, Clark, and the like if the actually DONT make the playoffs

Posted by: Anonymous | July 22, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

@Boo

Its actually a decent choice. He is unpopular in Philly but he did take a team from complete last to ECF.

Posted by: Tommmy | July 22, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

@keef
Why say Feds?
I'm assuming you have more insight than anyone to state that.... (steep price, but at least you know what your getting - no surprises with him) - It's a one year contract - don't get your answer...
As for Flash - we already know I'm not impressed by far - so any amount of money is an overpayment!
I believe your third answer is the best. As I stated earlier hope he/(Green) can live up to the hype because these DC fans will "Boo" him out of Washington if he can't.
The "Best" possible answer is Jurcina!!!
Anything over 1$ is too much if this past year is what he has to give!!!

Posted by: Greenie | July 22, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

@ Sombrero Guy

As of right now I haven't heard anything about Morrisonn agreeing to a new contract so it appears he's waiting for the hearing. After the hearing, it usually takes a day or two for the contract to be awarded.

Posted by: Katie Carrera | July 22, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

We need to retire Dimitri Khristich's number.

Posted by: Pothier's Thumb | July 22, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Agree with Super on this one Varlamov looked to easily be the best goalie in developmental camp but I will be looking for him and Machesney to take Johnsons job this coming year.

Machesney went 22-10 in Hershey as a rook and Varlamov looked solid.

Posted by: THE #94 | July 22, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

68: Bouchard was at D-Camp. I wasn't. Two RWs rated higher in one of Tarik's earlier posts were Osala and Andrew Gordon. Osala might be closer.

To weigh in on another topic, I have Green as "most likely to have a letdown," but only because he came so far, so fast and was rewarded so much, so quickly for it.

OTOH, I watched Green closely in the Game 1 replay last night and he was all over the place. Whatever "it" is that makes some people (Ovechkin) great, while others (Kozlov) seem to have the talent but don't become great, "it" was oozing out of Green.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

@Tommmmy

I disagree...

Stevens took a team that finished last the previous season all the way to the ECF, but they also had re-loaded with a lot of additional firepower, defense, and a new goalie (some of which had been acquired at the previous year's trade deadline).

There weren't many similarities between the last place team at the ECF final team other than the logo on the jersey.


PLUS the Flyers almost fell out of the plyoffs with a terrible February (4 wins 10 losses.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Pothier's Thumb: One day, one of Khristich's numbers will be retired, but the Russian name on the jersey won't be his.

(OK, he is Ukranian I think.)

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

the old #8 is indeed from the Ukraine

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=2710

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

@Greenie

Stop the Jurcina hatin'!! Save it for Flash!!

Green's my real answer, but Feds is also overpaid. We know what we're getting, definitely, but is it worth the $4mm? As others have mentioned, if it gets Semin to produce, and cools down heads on the bench, then it might very well be. But is he just a babysitter at that point?

I would hope that his influence would still have been felt this year if he didn't find his way back.

With how everyone here talks about him and how the players revere him, why isn't he wearing the C this year? Isn't that what we paid $4mm for? A captain?

Posted by: keef | July 22, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

@Katie

thanks!

Once we have that final piece of the puzzle we can spend all of august speculating the roster using actual hard numbers for determining the salary cap. Man I can't wait for October.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Right, they had a terrible Feb. but righted the ship then went on a tear.

So they had some new guys.

Look at teams such as the Caps...some could argue that with the best player in the world, they SHOULD be succeeding, regardless of who is coach

Det - no need to explain why they won the cup

Pitt - you can argue they SHOULD be succeeding with crosby, malkin and co

MTL - IMO their coach showed how his team could buckle under the pressure.

Philly added Lupul, Briere, Hartnell, Smith. Im not counting Biron because he was with the team at the end of the previous season. Of those guys, Lupul missed significant time. Hartnell is hardly a difference maker and Briere disappeared until another winger came in to feed him the puck. Also, they lost Gagne - arguably their fiercest weapon. Lost Richards for a long stretch and the D was always faulted for being big and slow.

Through that they were still able to make the playoffs and march to the conference finals. I believe that if not for Coburn and Timmonen being out of the Pitt series, it would have been the Flyers getting wiped by the Wings in the finals.

Posted by: Tommmy | July 22, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Steve R, saw your posts on the TB board - they took it pretty nice. Had that stuff been going on here, things would have been ugly.

Sombrero, you sitting in the same seats next year?

Posted by: 828 | July 22, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Tommmy:
True, but he was handed a lot of talent ...

Posted by: Boo! | July 22, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

At the Caps FanFest, I saw a little kid wearing a Rock the Red shirt that said "There's a Little Enforcer in All of Us" or something very close to that. Does anyone have an extra one of those in a size 5T? I'm dying to get one for my son. Email me at alpca3877 at comcast.net if you can help me.

THANK YOU!

Posted by: alpca3877 | July 22, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

It's time to make a move. We have been stockpiling talent and picks for several years.

Out of 30 teams, we are #1 in forward payroll and #24 in defense payroll. We need to move kozlov or clark or another forward for a legitimate shutdown defenseman.

Maybe we have to throw in fehr or osala or whatever but we should have enough talent stockpiled to make a move like this happen.

Posted by: Wanax | July 22, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Tommmy - and had the Pens not choked last game of the season, the Caps would have been to the Stanley Cup Finals...
shoulda woulda coulda... They Flyers just wanted it more - more than the Caps and more the MTL. nothing more, nothing less...

Posted by: 828 | July 22, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Leeguru | July 22, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Federov should wear the "c". Period.

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

@828

If Philly wanted it more, how would the Caps have made it in? ;)

Posted by: keef | July 22, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Anyone know if laing has to clear waivers? If so, will he clear?

Posted by: laingerfan | July 22, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

@ Boo

So was Boudreau..handed a ton of talent
if you are not handed talent in this league, then you are probably not going to have a team real long

Posted by: Tommmy | July 22, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

@Tommmmy

Philly didn't exactly go on a tear after February...
Philly went 10-8, or 10-4-4 including the OT losses in March and April.


They basically snuck into the playoffs thanks to the 1 point they got in those losses.

Most of the talking heads were predicting that the Flyers would be one of the teams to beat in the East because of the way they spent money in the off season. And you SHOULD count Biron, he was only on the team for the final 16 games of the previous season and they went 6-8-2 with him, which was far better than they had done without him.

The points improvement is a terrible and illegitimate argument because 06-07 Flyers and the 07-08 FLyers were completely different teams.

The points improvement for the Capitals from 07-08 under Hanlon to 07-08 under Bruce is a much more valid argument. Thats why Bruce won the Jack Adams and Stevens wasn't even in the top 3.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

So now Philly had talent?
When before everyone said they didnt have talent?

Which is it

This is the reason I HATE caps fans.
Fair weather at best

Posted by: . | July 22, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

I think it was more of a case of them running out of gas. That end of the season run had to hurt a bit. I mean playing with that kind of pressure game in game out for the youngsters on the team has to be hard.

I think that you have to switch gears in the playoffs and they had a tough time doing it. Game 1 Philly let up on us but Game 2,3,4 they stuck it to us. After Game 4, the Caps I think figured it out. But it was too little too late. If you would have let them play 3 more games, I would go out on a limb that the Caps would have won all three. Just a late start in the series.


I think the 7 game loss is probably better for our team then going to the 2nd round. I think its gonna make them hungry and angry and I am gonna love every minute of it. You better believe that BB and OV will not let a skid like last year happen.

Posted by: THE #94 | July 22, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

So the PHILADELPHIA FLYERS werent the PHILADELPHIA FLYERS?

Its the same organization, they had a few new pieces. Which is what happens to most teams in off seasons. So if the Caps do really well this year can we say they are a different team because they have a different goalie?

If you want to split hairs then BB shouldnt have won the Jack Adams because he had the fortunate trade deadline acquisitions of Fedorov and Huet because without Huet, the Caps most likely wouldnt have been in.

So split hairs all you want to. To claim one argument isnt valid because you dont agree with it is merely childish.

My point is that the team went from worst to the ecf. The coach was able to keep the team going and not only that was able to create a gameplan throughout the playoffs that kept the other teams top guys in check..which BB wasnt able to do for the majority of the Philly series.

Now you will probably spout stats of the Caps during the 1 playoff round. If not for a few fortunate 5 on 3 PPs, a few of those games would have been different and the Caps may not have made it to game 7.

So yes, its my OPINION that Stevens is a good choice for Hockey News Coach of the year. It is your OPINION that he is not.
Good for you.

Posted by: Tommmy | July 22, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

68:

For what it is worth, my brother mentioned Bouchard favorably after Development Camp.

Posted by: uncatim | July 22, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Phillllllllyyyyyyyyy


philllllyyyyyyyyyyy


phillllllyyyyyyyyy.......

I can hear knees knocking all the way down here.......

Posted by: The #94 | July 22, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

uncatim

thanks. Did anyone else stand out?

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

BB was the NHL's feel good story

thats the only reason he won

Babcock should have won

Posted by: . | July 22, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Everyone knows that Philly bought some seasoned guys - this is not news. The Caps had talent, too, but it was (is) young. There is a big difference.

BTW, if I was a fair weather fan, then I would not have been a STH when the Caps were, uh, not so successful.

Have I metioned before that I love anonymous posters?!?

Posted by: Boo! | July 22, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

im not anon

i have a name..look closely


and really, nobody uses their real names so we are all anon

Posted by: . | July 22, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

If GMGM were smart, he would have bought other seasoned guys besides Nylander and Kozlov to supplement OV.

Posted by: Tommmy | July 22, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

If they come from under a Caps jersey..go right ahead!

Posted by: Tommmy | July 22, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

I never got to play because I plugged GMGM's daughter in the rear.

Posted by: Steve Mnger | July 22, 2008 4:01 PM | Report abuse

haha Tommmmy - Yes the flyers were the flyers. The logo on the jersey was the same. The personnel was completely different. A team should be considerably better after adding Briere, Timmonen, Hartnell, Upshall, Biron and Coburn (some of which played post trade deadline in 06-07.

You think improving a point total from one season to the next makes a coach deserving of an award. I think other factors, such as off season improvements and preseason expectations should weigh heavily on how the award is given.

It does afterall take Different Strokes to rule the world...yes it does.......

Some light reading from last summer:
Alan Muir: Flyers are most improved team
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/allan_muir/07/31/flyers.notes/index.html

That similar sentiment was shared by hockey writers all across North America. The fact that the Flyers improved wasn't a surprise to anybody.

And I do agree that if their D had been healthy against the Pens they probably would have made it to the cup finals.


Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

@JSchon

Being a teddy bear - ADV Koz nice one haha :D

Ah the old S@H experienced D discussion. We won't get one, but the reason it would have been nice to have one is that our young D would learn so much faster with someone actually showing the way - similar to what Fed did and will do. W/o guidance, I fear it would take so long to get SC-level experience.

Posted by: mauree | July 22, 2008 4:06 PM | Report abuse

@828

My seats for next season are in 404, Mez corner where the Caps shoot twice.

For the playoffs I was in 401 I think, more towards center ice.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

How do we know it's the real sombrero guy.

Posted by: ?? | July 22, 2008 4:17 PM | Report abuse

"I never got to play because I plugged GMGM's daughter in the rear."

Posted by: Steve Mnger | July 22, 2008 4:01 PM

So that's what the problem was.

Posted by: 68 | July 22, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

@THE #94

They did play three more games after Game 4.

Posted by: keef | July 22, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

68,

From what I saw, Oskar looked impressive at camp.

828,

I've been commenting there for a week or so. They're polite for the most part. A little group delusions of future playoffs, but wth, they're fans.

Posted by: Steve R | July 22, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

68:

I didn't see everyone at development camp & don't remember details of specific performances. I do know which guys got check marks next to their name on my roster, including:

Alzner
Osala
Lacroix
Godfrey
Perreault
Mestery
Pinizotto

I also was impressed by someone not listed on the roster but whom I believe to be Chris Bourque.

Posted by: uncatim | July 22, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

I honestly thought Babcock should have won coach of the year. Paul Holmgren should've been GM of the Year, that's what drove the Flyers. And the Nashville Predators should've been given a special award from the Commissioner's Office for charitable contributions to the Flyers.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Okay, if not Khristich's number, then Mikhail Tatarinov's.

Posted by: Pothier's Thumb | July 22, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

I am admitedly Pro Caps, but I have a feeling Bruce Cassidy could have had success with this years Red Wings squad.

I kid i kid....sort of.

Posted by: Sombrero guy | July 22, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Sombrero,

My seats are also in 404. I went with full season since my new project is in Bethesda and not metro-hating No. VA.

A little disapointed I couldnt get the same seats from last season (408, Row G) but I guess thats the price for the Caps' success.

Well I'll be lookin for ya.

Posted by: MetalCap | July 22, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

If Cassidy were the Red Wings coach he could have helped most by staying home.

Posted by: uncatim | July 22, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Former Caps assistant Tim Hunter and former Caps defenseman Rob Zettler have been hired on as assistants in Toronto.

No surprise, but Caps-related nonetheless.

Posted by: John in Mpls | July 22, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

@MetalCap

I should be pretty easy to spot. I'm all the way up in row M. Had I been able to attend the select a seat i could have moved down but oh well.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

I was talking if they played 3 more games after game 7 I believe the Caps would have won all 3. In my opinion, they figure the playoffs out. Lots of miscues in the later part of Game 7 but if it wasn't for that 5 on 3, which is f ing rediculous, Caps had control.

Posted by: The #94 | July 22, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

BB was the NHL's feel good story

thats the only reason he won

Babcock should have won

Posted by: . | July 22, 2008 3:51 PM

Wrong. Caps were the worst team without him. Under his tenure, they were top 4.

If that's not coach of the year stuff, nothing is.

Posted by: Ben | July 22, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Season Ticket Holder Sec 400 right chere...........

Section 400 has been hazing opposing fans since 1981 or maybe a bit afterwards :)

Posted by: The #94 | July 22, 2008 5:10 PM | Report abuse

So to those "Babcock should have won" posters: why not just make it a automatic award like the Rocket Richard trophy...win the regular season, get the Adams trophy?

Posted by: OldPhil | July 22, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Hi, Is the the Hockey Support group?

Hi my name is Boom Boom

I haven't had a (real) hockey game since the caps were eliminated.

It's been 3 months 1 day and 12 hours since I last had a hockey game

I am an addict......and I admit it.
Thanks for being my friends.....

Posted by: HockeyAnon | July 22, 2008 5:27 PM | Report abuse

MetalCap:
Why did you have to move?

RE: Babcock, even I could have coached that team to victory. But they're getting old ... our time is coming!

HockeyAnon:
I feel your pain, my friend!!

Posted by: Boo! | July 22, 2008 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Hockey Anon:

You probably need a drink.

Posted by: uncatim | July 22, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

@Boo!

I didn't mean anything derogatory by comment... just that we are all on a pro-caps blog here, so it doesnt surprise me to see true fans thinking that the SC is in reach.

I prefer to not to get myself all jazzed up before a single puck has been dropped, let the excitement grow... Wait until we are in first or until some jack a$$ PEN's fan bothers me to my tipping point...

We all need a drink...

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 5:54 PM | Report abuse

Sombrero:
Interesting article - thanks for sharing! I have to say, I agree with the writer when he says that Philly was the most improved going into last season, but I don't agree that the changes promised long-term success. In fact, when comparing the Flyers to the Caps after the Flyers won the series, even a Philly News writer said, "I would trade the Flyers' next five or seven years for the Caps' next five or seven years. That's a really promising young team there."

Posted by: Boo! | July 22, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Yes, we do all need a drink ... :-)

Posted by: Boo! | July 22, 2008 6:00 PM | Report abuse

OldPhil: I thought Babcock would have been given the award due to multiple very good seasons. I know, I know: it's supposed to be for "this year" only. But, I thought a lot of coaches did praiseworthy jobs - Stevens, Julien, Charbonneau, Babcock, even Ron Wilson (reg season). Savard did a decent job to bring the Hawks back to some respectability. Very seldom does the best record get coach of the year. That shouldn't change. It was all so close though I thought Babcock would be like a compromise choice. As much as BB did, I'm still surprised because he was only a part-year coach. To me, awarding a part-year coach is as suprising as a first-place coach. And, you know, you can't penalize a guy for having the best record.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Hi Hockey Anon. My name is Ben, and I too am a Capsaholic. I've been known to stay up into the wee hours, watching highlights of last season's Caps games for the dozenth time.

Do you mind if I smoke? Thanks.

It all started when I was about 5. Bondra was but a twinkle in my eye, and the great Langway and his Hall of Fame pals patrolled our blue line, while Hunter took care of the intimidation up front. It continued through my preteen years, as I grew fascinated with the enforcers of Caps lore and would draw pictures of Alan May beating the crap out of people in art class, at home, in english class, etc.

Anyways, thanks for listening. That's all I have for today.

Posted by: Ben | July 22, 2008 6:01 PM | Report abuse

@Boo
Actually the flyers are not in really bad shape, long term. I don't believe their future is as good as our's but they have a pretty good core set in and will be set for a few years to come. They are also pretty decent in the depth (minors).
They are currently over the cap, and talking about dumping Hatcher.

Posted by: Capfannmiss | July 22, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Ben thank you so much for that inspirational story. Can we all have a group hug for "Ben"..please everybody join in.

I too have been caught in the wee hours of the morning....but worse than catching a glimps of some Caps hilights, I have been caught reading caps bloggs......yes...I do admit it....

I've been an addict from the first year.... I can blame my father for this. He took me to the opening game.....

May I have another drink please...

Posted by: Hockey anon | July 22, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Ben thank you so much for that inspirational story. Can we all have a group hug for "Ben"..please everybody join in.

I too have been caught in the wee hours of the morning....but worse than catching a glimps of some Caps hilights, I have been caught reading caps bloggs......yes...I do admit it....

I've been an addict from the first year.... I can blame my father for this. He took me to the opening game.....

May I have another drink please...

Posted by: Hockey anon | July 22, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Agreed. The Flyers should be in decent shape for the next several seasons, with Richards Carter and Coburn leading the way.

I think Briere's contract will be an albatross by 2011 (he's signed through 2014-2015 at 6.5 million per)

Timonen may also be suspect a couple years down the road. He's already 33 and is signed for 4 more years at 6.33 million per.

those are two big contracts that could become problems once those two guys hit their mid 30's.

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Flyers do have a real good core in place

Richards signed for 12 yrs
Carter for 3
Lupul just got a 4 yr extention
Briere has 7 more years
Gagne has a few more yrs left on his contract.
I was reading that we may be seeing a Biron extension real soon
Timmonen has time left
Hartnell does as well.
Coburn got an extension last year
They just sign metropolit
Signed Aaron Asham
Upshall has another year left

I think you are going to see a Philly team that is real competitive for years to come.

I dont have exact contract #s because I dont have time nor do i care to look them up but Philly is going to be a good team for the next 5 years.

Posted by: Tommmy | July 22, 2008 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Philly will miss Umberger this year, but I am sure that Montreal wont mind him playing in the West for the next 4 years.

Posted by: Tommmy | July 22, 2008 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Flyers suck...agreed

Posted by: Anonymous | July 22, 2008 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Contract wise, the most overpaid Cap...

Poti - 3 x $3.5M

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

What about this

What if TB actually is good this year.
Im gonna assume Carolina will be competitive
So will the caps.

It'll make for an interesting SE div

Posted by: Anonymous | July 22, 2008 6:52 PM | Report abuse

@Tommmmy

The Flyers have absolutely no flexibility with the salary cap... none...

2009/2010 you have 13 players signed and a cap number of $44.5M, leaving about $16M to sign 10 players including 2 goalies.

You'll owe raises to Coburn, Asham and Downie... in 2010/2011

and in 2011/2012 you'll owe raises to Carter and Gagne...

And you'll still have Briere for 3 more years and Timonen for another 2.

From where I'm sitting... The Capitals are in much better shape.

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 7:03 PM | Report abuse

LOL - just reading some of the comments - I hope they don't put Fedorov on the 3rd or 4th lines - you don't shove a $4million guy on the 3rd or 4th line!

fyi - Fedorov was named player of the day on the NHLPA website a few days ago - has a nice brief write-up on him for those of you who want to know more about guy

http://www.nhlpa.com/PlayerOfTheDay/index.asp?Date=7/18/2008

Posted by: bea | July 22, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

I didnt say who was in better shape

I said they were in good shape

my bet is Gagne will be retired..i doubt he gets through this season

Downie wont command much..not more than a mil, maybe less...unless he puts up huge numbers.

Asham will probably stay for his contract and then he is gone.

Philly has a couple people coming through the system that will be signed entry level which will take care of big cap hits.

They are in good shape. They have a solid core and Holmgren has proven he is more than capable of doing the job so im sure he will fit them in

Posted by: Tommmy | July 22, 2008 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Tommmy: You just got destroyed with data.

Bea: If you read all the posts, you will see what some consider what is the "3rd Line."

The Ovechkin line is the 1st Line because it has Ovechkin. Federov cannot play on this line because he is 38 and they need to conserve at least some of his energy for the PK. He is without a doubt the best defensive player on the team. (And a big part of that $4M is defense, btw). Now, the Brashear line is the 4th Line because this is what 4th Lines always do, when they are good - they intimidate. Brashear, Bradley and Steckel will do that very well. The other two lines then by default are #'s 2 and 3. It doesn't matter which number you assign to which line. One of the two lines will have Semin and will therefore likely be called #2, although Semin could be on the #1 Line (Ovechkin) with either Nylander or Backstrom. After throwing all the combinations around, it seems sensible maybe to have an "Old Farts Line" with Fedorov and Clark. They would take defensive zone draws and they would also play as a top PK pairing. That and some PP time will utilize Feds' 16-18 mins/game. The numerical value given to the four lines is more an expected number of minutes they will play per game as a three-man unit than a skill ranking. Ovechkin, 1st. Brashear, last. Semin, second to OV. Feds, 3rd, due to age. Feds will not complain as he'll be huffing and puffing a'plenty. BB will ensure Feds earns every penny.

This was a long rejoinder to your comment, but hopefully the length was essential to properly explain.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 22, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

I forcibly put Chief in a pink tutu if Feds isn't centering Semin at the start of the season.

Posted by: keef | July 22, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Actually tom, no i didnt..i use logic

I dont assume every player is going to re sign with a team.

Guys like downie and asham probably wont get re signed..they are trade bait for picks.

Logically, what makes you think guys on each and every team will stay through till the end of their contract? That is very rare these days..although with the CBA we are seeing more people signing long term.

Everyone says the Caps are in really good shape?

This is assuming a young D actually improves. this is assuming that Clark can go again, this is assuming that 2 unproven prospects will succeed between the pipes. Numbers aside...caps are in good shape, but not GREAT shape. They will have guys like OV and Green around for a long time, but what happens in 3 yrs when Laich wants another deal. What happens when a guy like Flash sees himself as worth more.
what happens when Mo wants more money, again?

salary cap problems..every team will run into them.

Posted by: Tommmy | July 22, 2008 8:28 PM | Report abuse

"salary cap problems..every team will run into them."

True story Tommmmy.

The Caps could be in a bit of trouble in 10-11 when Backstrom and Semin are up for new contracts. Fortunately, we don't have a lot of guys in their mid to late 30's signed to multi year contracts at this point so we should have enough flexibility after this season

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 22, 2008 9:41 PM | Report abuse

Sombrero,

It does help that we're not locked into a 4 year deal with Huet.

Posted by: Steve R | July 22, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Ben:

As per TB paper via John Walton's blog, Alan May to become asst. coach of AHL Norfolk Admirals. I won't want to root against May but I will be cheering for the Hershey Bears.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/2008/07/rumble-to-coach.html

Posted by: uncatim | July 22, 2008 10:30 PM | Report abuse

@Tommmmy

Any team willing to take the contracts of Briere and Timonen deserve to exiled to Central America. So I guess you're stuck with Danny Boy and a 37 year old Kimmo.

Gagne will probably retire. He might not finish the contract to be honest.

You will have to rely, more so than us, on your younger cheaper talent... Giroux, Van Reimsdyck.

Posted by: JSchon | July 22, 2008 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Hmmmmmmm What happens when Morrisonn wants more money?????

Hit the Road Jack and dont you come back no more no more no more......

Carlson, Alzner, Lepisto, Godfrey please go take dfense beside Greenie...

I see it going sort of like that......

Posted by: The #94 | July 23, 2008 6:14 AM | Report abuse

Two to Four Years from now....

Alzner - Godfrey
Greenie - Lepisto
Schultz - Carlson

And a Cup

Posted by: The #94 | July 23, 2008 6:17 AM | Report abuse

test

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 23, 2008 6:41 AM | Report abuse

Tommmy:

My other post got lost. Anyway, here is Flyers cap numbers for 09-10:

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=PHI&season=0809

Cap figures are $46.95M for 13, incl Downie. Giving Biron $4.5M and with van Riemsdyck at $2M rookie w/bonus, you have $3.5M left for six players min and a back-up goalie. That was the point. Players can't get cut like in football. Once signed, the cap hit occurs unless you trade them or buyout at 2/3rds.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 23, 2008 6:44 AM | Report abuse

@94

I doubt the caps would put Lepisto and Green on the same line. Both would need a S@H kind of guy to cover for their up the ice rushes

Posted by: Sombrero Guy | July 23, 2008 7:36 AM | Report abuse

@94

Greenie and Lepisto = 5 Forwards... and I like it...

Capitals 2009/2010 Cap implications
Signed players
LW Ovechkin $9.5M
LW Semin $4.6M*
LW Flash $.725M~

C Backstrom $2.4M*
C Nylander $4.875M
C Laich $2.07M

RW Clark $2.667M
RW Bradley $1.0M

* = RFA 2010/2011
~ = UFA 2010/2011

UFA's
Fedorov
Kozlov
Brashear
Steckel

RFA's
Fehr
Gordon

Re-sign C Steckel $.9M
Re-sign RW Fehr $1.0M

LW Ovechkin, Semin, Flash
C Backstrom, Nylander, Laich, Steckel
RW Clark, Fehr, Bradley

10 players @ $29.73
We need another LW and RW, unless you move Laich to RW, then we need a C & LW.

In the pipeline? other options?
Re-sign B.Gordon C/RW
Bourque LW/C
Aucoin RW
A.Gordon RW
Perrault C
Bouchard RW
Osala RW

Posted by: JSchon | July 23, 2008 8:01 AM | Report abuse

JSchon,

I'm liking Oskar's chances.

Posted by: Steve R | July 23, 2008 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Blueline

Green $5.25M
Poti $3.5M
Alzner $1.675M

3 signed $10.425

UFA
Erskine

RFA
Jurcina
Schultz
Morrisonn
Lepisto

Re-sign
Schultz $1.5M
Lepisto $1.0M

In the pipeline? other options?
Godfrey

Make a move on UFA defensemen
Komisarek (projected $4M)

Posted by: JSchon | July 23, 2008 8:18 AM | Report abuse

@ Sombrero, Wow I'm actually in row N so its going to be near impossible to look down row M, phew I'm just gonna give up now I think. haha

@ Boo
I had to move because I had the weekend plan for 2 seats and now that the Caps are doing well I have some bandwagon or at least "now I'll go to the games instead of watching from home" friends so I up'ed my seats to 4.

Pretty lame but I just want the season to start.

Posted by: MetalCap | July 23, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse

MetalCap:
Bummer! Well, maybe you will enjoy your new seats more ... especially since you have more friends to enjoy them with! :-) Regardless, I agree - I just want the season to start.

Katie:
We need a new thread - this one is getting too long to navigate! :-D

Posted by: Boo! | July 23, 2008 8:29 AM | Report abuse

JSchon,

Carlson might be a wild card. How quickly will he develop? Plus will Finley (sp?) be ready to kick mascot's butts in the bigs?

Posted by: Steve R | July 23, 2008 8:32 AM | Report abuse

@ Tommmy

"What happens when a guy like Flash sees himself as worth more"

Wow...I needed a laugh this morning. Good stuff.

Posted by: #13 | July 23, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

I do not see Carlson as a wild card. Carlson is the real deal from what I saw. This kid is mean, big and will get bigger.

I actually see Pokulock, Finley, and Seabrook are wild cards in my book. Pokulock looked very comfortable in d-camp and if his head doesn't break like Pothier's then he has a chance. Finley's foot speed at the next level is a big question in my mind and Seabrook was the worst dman in camp a couple weeks ago hands down. Looks like he's not cut from the same mold as his brother.

Posted by: #94 | July 23, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

I never got to play because I plugged GMGM's daughter in the rear.

Posted by: s. mnger | July 23, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

:) @ #13

Great stuff.....I think that GMGM will do the same thing....Laugh and walk away whistling with his hands in his pockets.

Posted by: #94 | July 23, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Eminger plays for Filthy now so could care less. Does GMGM have a hot daughter? Jschon, we need to get on this stat!!!

Anyways, on to my next question/comment and hope its not to CHIEFY but the one thing I am nervous about is the ability of GMGM to pick late draft picks. The reason Detroit is so good is one, their players play to win cups and two they are stock piling late round draft picks that turn out to be players.

Carlson and Gufstuson we're mid round picks and Carlson to me looks great but I can't get the draft history of GMGM out of my head.

Posted by: #94 | July 23, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Last thing before I go to work, WHERE DO I GET ONE OF THOSE GANG GREEN SHIRTS....CAUSE I WANT ONE FOR ME AND MY SISTER......

Posted by: #94 | July 23, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

@#94

GMGM doesn't pick the players drafted, he merely announces them. The scouting staff is where you need to cast a watchful eye.

They've taken quite a few years to warm up - they might have hit their stride with some of their picks this year. We'll know better a couple of seasons from now.

Posted by: keef | July 23, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

GMGM makes the ultimate decision on who to select in the draft.

Posted by: 68 | July 23, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Does the undertaker have a daughter?

I've got no idea...

Posted by: JSchon | July 23, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Jurcina sux and should be sent to the South Carolina Stingrays.

Posted by: guaffen | July 23, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

@68

From a position standpoint as he assembles the team, absolutely. But do you think he's the one that puts one D-man over another on their list of selections?

Posted by: keef | July 23, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Keef

I think he listens to the scouts opinions of the players and together they rank them.

But in the end he is responsible for selecting the players and I think it is ultimately his decision.

Either way he hires the scouts.

I understand that late round guys don't pan out most of the time but poor draft selections are his fault.

Posted by: 68 | July 23, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

2009/2010

10 Forwards (projected)
LW Ovechkin, Semin, Flash
C Backstrom, Nylander, Laich, Steckel
RW Clark, Laich, Bradley

$29.73M

5 Defensemen (projected)
Green, Poti, Alzner, Schultz, Lepisto

$12.925M

Goalies (projected)
Theodore $4.5M
Varlamov $.822M

$5.322M

Total $47.977M

Needs?

RW and LW and D

Cap space estimated? $12M $13M

D Komisarek $4.0M
LW Bourque $.900M
RW Bouchard $.875

Total $53.752M


Posted by: JSchon | July 23, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Semin already makes $4.6M, his raise will be minimal... $5.5M?

Backstrom will be getting a significant raise from his $2.4M... $5.5

Posted by: JSchon | July 23, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

We can't forget as we project salaries into 09/10 and beyond that if certain players like Semin, Backstrom and other "core" player have GREAT years, which will need to happen to get beyond first round of playoffs, then they will command much higher salaries than what I am seeing projected here. Other teams will offer more as well...

Posted by: NJ | July 23, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Semin and Backstrom are both RFA's, however I could see slightly higher salaries for Backstrom, not Semin... unless he hits 80 points next year...

Posted by: JSchon | July 23, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

@68

It sounds like there should be a group lobbying the Detroit scouts to write a scouting manual when they retire. :)

Posted by: keef | July 23, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

I think they just got lucky with datsyuk, etc. Who knows maybe GMGM's late round picks will work out well.

I think he is doing a good job drafting. But we have had alot of high picks recently and those are harder to screw up.

Posted by: keef | July 23, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

@metalcap

haha no worries. I always check with whoever is behind me. If they can't see, the Sombrero goes in my lap.

I should point out the Caps play better when I actually wear it....

Posted by: Sombrero guy | July 23, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

@uncatim:

We should have never let him leave the organization.

Posted by: Ben | July 23, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Any predictions on Mo's salary for next year if he wins the arbirtation hearing.

1.5 mill?

Posted by: wanax | July 23, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Katie - I can get to your Morrisonn arbitration post from a link on Jaspers, but it doesn't seem to be showing up here on the Post website.

Let's hope for something in the 1.5-1.7 Mil range for Mo.

Last year, the Caps had 10 servicable defensemen who could play in the NHL (Lepisto and Boomer could be counted on in Hershey if needed).

This year, they only have 8 (Eminger/Boomer gone, Pothier injured, add only Alzner). Mo is important to this team so lets hope his salary arbitration fits into the caps structure.

Posted by: Stormblue | July 23, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Competition for Semin's services might be KHL, and that could drive up price.

JSchon: Did you drop Brashear for 09-10? Is this his last year, you think? If Brashear retires or they let him go, you need an enforcer. I suppose that would be the #4 LW you project as a "need." As for me, I wouldn't yet dismiss Mo. You also left Fehr off your forwards (you listed Laich twice, maybe RW was Fehr?). I believe everyone is hoping he comes around. Bouchard and especially Osala should be very close year after next. We'll see how they do this year in Hershey.

Posted by: Tom in FL | July 23, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

@Stormblue

I'm not sure what our publishing format did but sorry about that. I had a new post waiting to go up as I checked one more time that Morrisonn hadn't agreed to a new contract, so I think it got confused. The new post is up now though.

Posted by: Katie Carrera | July 23, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 68 | July 23, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

According to my obnoxious plan... M.Komisarek becomes your enforcer. He isnt a 4th liner either, he'll play 25mpg.

Posted by: JSchon | July 23, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

@keef - didn't mean to strike a nerve about Feds or Jurcina for that matter - never mean any dis-respect on this blog, I just wanted to know what you were thinking. Both JSchon and I said we thought it was a steep price but at 18mpg and .75ppg that equals 62+/- guaranteed points which gives us 10 additional wins for the year, I think that is money well spent - and as for the captain, you may just see him with the "C" on his chest, you never know, but we did not re-sign him to be captain/babysitter as you say, we re-signed him to clean up the leadership lacking qualities from Clarkes absence, not to mention his good character and experience, mentoring not babysitting!
And lastly, as for Jurcina, when he starts playing NHL caliber hockey, I will get off his back, but I sure most people on this blog will agree, when you play with the big boys you need to step up to the plate and when you suck you deserve scrutiny/bashing whatever you want to call it, I just expect better period from a guy like him with that size otherwise he can be gone! No loss as far as I'm concerned! What will we get for him - Nothing because he isn't worth even a bag of pucks!!!! Sorry that is how I feel and I would love for him to prove me wrong, but I feel pretty safe based on last years performance.....If you can't find the passion to play for guys like Ovie,Feds,Backie,Laich,Kozie etc... and on down the line in a playoff push like the CAPS had this past season, then something is def. wrong - I see it and so do others - he doesn't belong in the NHL, it is a waste of a body and money!

Posted by: Greenie | July 23, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

@ JSchon

Turns out GMGM does have a daughter, and a son too. The daughter is in middle school and plays basketball.

In other news, its kind of creepy how much information you can find out about regular people on the internet using just Google.

Posted by: AM Capsfan | July 23, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

...GMGM has a few annoying kids (you might be called a pedophile if you were to ask any on a date, though)-- with even more obnoxious friends that tend to sit in the row behind me at games and make me quite frustrated ... and wishing i had some duct tape for rattling mouths and kicking compulsive feet...

Posted by: Anonymous | July 23, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Caps suck!

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