Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: kcarrera and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Sports and Redskins  |  RSS

Updates on Winter Classic, Steroids

I got a chance to ask Gary Bettman a few questions during an impromptu media scrum here in Vegas last night. The NHL commissioner didn't go into a lot of detail in his answers about the steroid case or the Winter Classic, but I figured I would share his responses anyway.

Let's start with the Winter Classic. There have been reports suggesting that the Bruins are set to host the Caps on Jan. 1 at Fenway Park. Bettman wouldn't confirm the reports, but the word out here is that Boston's opponent hasn't been confirmed and that discussions within the league are continuing. I'm also hearing the Caps haven't been told whether they're in or out. Yet.

"I'm not in a position to make any announcements right now," Bettman said. "I know there are a lot of rumors that are floating about. But at this point in time I'm going to leave them rumors. There are a lot of places that would be cool to have it in. Boston is a great city, but we have lots of great cities that would like to have the Winter Classic. I'm not ruling in or out anything."

As far as the league's investigation into the steroid case in Florida, Bettman said it's not turning up much.

"We're still continuing to look into it, but there hasn't been anything to substantiate what was a rumor and allegation," he said. "We're going to continue to look to make sure there isn't a problem. We don't believe there is. But we're going to continue to satisfy ourselves that there isn't."

Bettman said there is no timetable for the investigation to end or for an official announcement of its findings.

"When you investigate, you start at the beginning and follow the trail for as long as you think there's anything that might be to it," Bettman said.

The Caps, I'm told, also have not been made aware of any new developments from league or federal investigators.

By Tarik El-Bashir  |  June 18, 2009; 1:05 PM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Morning Reading List: Another MVP?
Next: Fedorov's Status Still Undetermined

Comments

Caps v. Bruins would most definitely be a "Winter Classic"

Posted by: doughless | June 18, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Brought over from previous thread:

I have to be honest. I am kind of shocked at the lack of love towards Greenie. I know he has some flaws and didn't perform well in the playoffs, but it's almost like some of you have turned on him. I know the Norris is for the regular which helps Greenie in this.

I'm sure some of you had Center Ice just like I did which was the only way to catch most of Bruins run because that weren't really nationally televised. Chara was getting abused by much smaller players by the end of the 1st round and in the 2nd. Not sure if he was nursing an injury but he looked BAD. Now we know Lidstrom was really nursing an injury, the man had the family jewels worked on, but he didn't look all that great either.

I guess my point is if the Caps wouldn't have made the playoffs more Caps fans might be willing to admit he had a pretty darn good season. Unfortunately for Greenie we have short memories and the last thing we remember is his tough post season (-5).

It was nice to hear that Greenie spent most of his time off with his personal trainer working on that shoulder. I don't think we have to worry about him getting a big head. These elite hockey players all have the same dream, the same one they have been having since they were 10, to skate with the Stanley Cup over their head.

Posted by: fanohock1 | June 18, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

fanohock1:
I have not turned on Green, I just don't think he deserves the hardware. He had a great year, but he had a great year as an offensive Dman. I see the award going to a true defensive (i.e. S@H) Dman. His time will come, he just needs to tighten up his defensive game first. I could be wrong, that's just my humble opinion.

Posted by: Boo- | June 18, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Fanohock, I agree w you about the fans on this board turning on Green. But it is not just Green. It seems to be any and all of the Caps. How quickly one forgets...

Posted by: capsfan01 | June 18, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I think some of the fans are tired of making fun of Crosby and now are turning their attention on the Capitals...again. No rest for the weary, it would seem.

It's all good. Let's note that at the end of the day, the players are well aware of their shortcomings and not getting the Stanley Cup hurts them more than it does us. After all, it's more than their pride that gets hurt. Their jobs are at stake so yeah, ease up fellow Capitals fans. They're still our team.

Posted by: LeftCoastCapsFan | June 18, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Boo-: I agree his game needs work but the only S@H defenseman of the pack is Chara. Lidstrom is an offensive minded defenseman too. His point production is actually down. Lidstrom does look like a calm cool defenseman, he's just smooth. I'm not looking to argue, everyone has a right to their own opinion without getting knocked.

I have a feeling Greenie is going to win it, don't know why I have that feeling, maybe because he's the only Canadien of the 3 and not one Canadien has been nominted for the Hart and the only Canadien up for the Selke is Madden and he doesn't have a shot against Datsyuk or Zetterberg as a 3rd liner.

Posted by: fanohock1 | June 18, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Regarding the Winter Classic: Bettman's not going to confirm or deny anything at this stage. There's no way he's going to spoil the announcement, and there's no way the Caps would risk spoiling the announcement by admitting that they know anything whether they know it or not. If they say they know, wouldn't everyone be climbing all over them to spill? No, they'd say exactly what they did whether they know anything or not.

For myself, I'm tucking money away to make that New Year's trip to Boston, although I'm not booking anything yet. If it comes to that, I'd be interested in seeking a group rate somewhere.

Regarding the steroid allegations: I thought it was quiet on that front. No news is good news on this topic, as far as I'm concerned, but do keep us updated, Tarik.

Posted by: kittypawz | June 18, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

@Fanohock1- There are too many people who think the only way to play defense it to lay out crushing hits, and if you take a shot on goal you're trying too hard to be a forward!

These people are likely new to the game, or just simply fail to comprehend hockey on more than a basic level (i.e. hitting and fighting).

These people will ignore stats like the following posted on Japers Rink in their "rink wrap"

"He was second on the Caps in blocked shots (Milan Jurcina), first in takeaways among the D, and had the best five-on-five +/-ON/60 of any defenseman in the League (minimum forty games played).

Finally, while Bruce Boudreau didn't use him as often as others on the penalty kill (and he when he was used, it was against weaker opposition), Green had the best GAON/60 of any skater on the team four-on-five (minimum one minute of penalty killing time per game), and the best GAON/60 of any skater in the entire League who killed at least 2.3 minutes of penalties per game."

http://www.japersrink.com/2009/6/1/894283/2008-09-rink-wrap-mike-green

Was Green the same player in the playoffs? Nope. A bum shoulder and undisclosed illness definitely hampered his play. Maybe he should have been limited to PP time like the pens did with Gonchar?

Green is one of the best d-men in the league. Well deserving of his nomination, although I still think Chara gets the prize as a "lifetime achievement" vote from many of the writers.

This isn't the last time Green will be in the running for the Norris, and this isn't the last time misinformed Redskin Fan converts calling themselves Caps Fans now will complain about the way Green plays.

Posted by: SombreroGuy | June 18, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

fanohock1:
I really do want him to get it, I just don't think he will. I hope I'm wrong!

Sombrero:
Surely you were not directing that towards me, were you? :-)

Posted by: Boo- | June 18, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

@leftCoast: I think it's a bit more than that. Ever notice last season, when we'd won five or six in a row and things were going completely amazingly, that we'd break out into almost-daily fights among ourselves? It's almost like we have to have something to snipe at. If we have nothing to complain about, we turn on each other for lack of something to pick on. *shrug* If not one of the Caps, if not Crosby, then it's each other. Not saying it's right, but it sure looks that way.

Posted by: kittypawz | June 18, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

@Boo! - haha no. You're not part of the "Mike Green is terrible" crowd as far as I can tell.

You're part of the "it should go to a defensive minded defensemen" crowd which is a different story!

Posted by: SombreroGuy | June 18, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Sombrero:
Thank you! :-) So what do we need to do to get the NHL to adopt a second Dman award so that the Mike Greens of the world get their props?

Posted by: Boo- | June 18, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

I can't remember who it was, but someone posted the numbers awhile back and for "goals allowed when on the ice 5-on-5 prorated to 60 minutes," Green was almost identical to Chara and Lidstrom. Now add his better offensive production. I think Green sometimes gets a bad wrap because he seems to have a laid back style, probably due to his superior skating skills.

After reviewing all the stats, I feel he should get the award. I agree though Chara is more likely to win.

Posted by: tominfl1 | June 18, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

I think its going to be close, but I think Green will edge out Chara.

Posted by: RedBirdie | June 18, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Boo-, where does it say that the award goes to best defensive defensemen? It says that as clearly as it says it goes to best offensive defensemen. In other words, it doesn't.

Some years it goes to the best offensive defensemen (Coffey), sometimes it goes to the best defensive defensemen (Langway) and sometimes it goes to the best all-around defensemen.

If Mike Green wins it this year it is going to be a combination of a couple of things. Lidstrom having played out his string and the voters wanting a new winner after Lidstrom has won it 6 of the last 7 seasons it has been awarded and the fact that Green broke a long standing record of goals in consecutive games and the fact that he got 30 goals in the season...a bench mark number for defensemen.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | June 18, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Per 60 minutes played

Mike Green - GF/60: 3.57 GA/60: 2.21

Charra - GF/60: 2.93 GA/60: 2.63

Lidstrom - GF/60: 3.34 ga/60: 2.14

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2008/5_on_5.php?sort=23&mingp=50&mintoi=&team=WSH&pos=D

change the team name to see the others in case you think i am lying.

Posted by: SombreroGuy | June 18, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Boo-: Seems like S@H guys need another award. The last Norris trophy winner to earn less than 50 points was in the 1966-67, Harry Howell, he had 40, but also only had 70 games seasons. In the modern game Rob Blake won it when he only had 50pts, but 23 of those were goals. The Norris trophy winner has always put points up.

S@H guys like Pronger have won, but only the season in which he scored the most points in his career.

Posted by: fanohock1 | June 18, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

@Boo! - And no, I personally don't think that it needs to be divided into two awards, the Norris and the Langway (thats what I'd call it anyway) award for defensive defenseman.

As the numbers above showed, while Green has the stigma of simply being an offensive minded guy, he did as good a job or better as the other big name guys at keeping the opponents from scoring, and helped his team score more often. Can't ask for much more of a defensemen than that.

Part of the reason for that was Green's ability to skate the puck out and get the offense started, but if your team is possessing the puck and has the puck in the other end of the ice, its pretty darn hard for the other team to score...

Posted by: SombreroGuy | June 18, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

freakinandpeakin:

I agree that he is the best offensive Dman and if the voters interpret the award that way then he will get it hands down. But it does not "say" that and, you're right, it does not say defensive Dman, either (however I have always thought that it is probably interpreted that way more often than not). What it does say is:

"The James Norris Memorial Trophy is an annual award given to the defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position."

Is Green the greatest "all-around" Dman? Right now? Probably not (hence the constant debate about his defensive "opportunities for improvement" :-)). Heck, his own club has even said that he needs to tighten up on the blue line. Will he get there? Absolutely - there's no doubt in my mind. He is a HUGE asset and his contributions should not be overlooked. I would just be surprised if the voting masses thought that he was the Dman of the year (for all of the reasons that we have discussed). Again, I hope I am wrong, but that's the way I see it.

Posted by: Boo- | June 18, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

"The James Norris Memorial Trophy is an annual award given to the defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position."

http://www.nhl.com/trophies/norris.html

if I had any HTML skills, I would emphasize "all around ability".

Posted by: SombreroGuy | June 18, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Whoops I'll take that back. Our very own Rod Langway earned less points and was a friggin' defensive genius. He definitely rightly won his back to back Norris trophy. Besides him, take a look folks, the Norris trophy winners put up points. I'll be honest, when I was younger I always thought it was a defensive defenseman's award.

Posted by: fanohock1 | June 18, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

everyone here loves to trot out Green stats. does anyone have his stats on turnovers/bad passes/bad passes that led to goals?? I went to 41 regular season games and all of the playoff games, and I cannot tell you how many times I saw this happen.

that said, Green picked it up on the D end toward the end of the season. i look to see him be more consistent in Caps zone this coming season.

Posted by: doughless | June 18, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

fanohock1, you don't need to go back that far. Rod Langway didn't crack 40 points either season he won the Norris in 1983 (32 points) and 1984 (33 points).

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | June 18, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Well gentlemen you are entitled to your opinions (as am I), so we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. Cheers!

Posted by: Boo- | June 18, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Boo, I won't argue that Green deserves it this season. I am of the school that says you need to show me it was more than a one year thing...except in the rare cases.

But fanohock1 is basically skirting the real reason the Norris doesn't fall into the defensive defensemen category and offensive defensemen often win it. One individual player transformed the position and won the award for 8 straight seasons starting the year after Howell won it. Bobby Orr.

Orr changed the position and changed the qualifications for what it took to win the Norris.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | June 18, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

I actually think Green will win the award tonight based as much on the numbers that have been shown above (I've been using them all year) and the record scoring streak. Part of what gets missed a bit is that this team is built to the point where the offensive is the best defensive and Green isn't asked to S@H very often. The overall package is strong enough to win. I don't think any really would argue with the fact that his strictly defensive traits need to be strengthened but that will come with age and experience. Green is still very young and a lot of dmen don't get really good until they are older. Heck, Lidstrom is in his late 30s. What we all know is that defensive skill can be taught but you don't turn a 5-goal S@H player into a 30-goal scorer - ever.

Green had a rough post-season but I think he deserves the award.

And, I'll love watching Feds hand the Hart to Ovi tonight.

Good luck to all.

Posted by: saintex | June 18, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Once again, the Norris has been an offensively based award for a number of years.

Green should win it.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 18, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I think Orr is going a bit too far back. Yeah, he completely revolutionized the position, but defensive-minded players were awarded it after Green.

I think it probably starts around Coffey era.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 18, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

awarded it after Orr*.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 18, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Sombrero

"@Boo! - haha no. You're not part of the "Mike Green is terrible" crowd as far as I can tell."

Don't let her fool you! She's the ring leader of the Greenie Hater's Club! That, and what's he done for us this month?

Think about it... ;)

Posted by: Greg S. | June 18, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Green ( I think) had the most turnovers in the league for a D-man. Ovie also had the most turnovers for a forward. (I think)

An unfortunate side effect of scoring the amount of goals they do, but it does seem like its moreso an aspect of BB's system. Buckling a bit down on the breakout passes to nowhere would help these numbers go down.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 18, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

@Doughless - green had .42 less goals against per 60 minutes played than Charra. Just for fun, i'll toss in that he has 1.27 LESS GA/60 than Phaneuf.

I went to 38 regular season games and all playoff games. Mike Green was hurt and ill in the playoffs and did not play well. Mike Green did play well in the regular season. Did he turn the puck over sometimes? Of course. Did the other guys nominated for the Norris do the same? Of course. It happens when you're playing defense. Its part of the game. People just hate on Green more because he joins the rush.

Speaking of which, I'd wager that the majority of Mike Green's turnovers take place in the offensive end as a result of leading the rush. The same reason why Ovechkin was the team leader in turnovers.

Ultimately, it should come down to whether or not the other team scores against you when you're on the ice, and Green's numbers are right up there with Lidstrom, and significantly ahead of Charra.

Posted by: SombreroGuy | June 18, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

I'm a Bruins AND Caps fan. It's not easy sometimes, believe me. I Love Green, although if he beats out either Chara or Lidstrom for the Norris something is way wrong with the way the award is being voted on. As far as the Winter Classic, it's my understanding that Bruins season ticket holders would get first crack at the seats, and the rest may be pretty hard to come by.

Posted by: j3rockstar | June 18, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Did you ask Bettman when he's going to step down and get someone in his place to do a good job of running the NHL? Supposedly the first time he was given a puck (on the first day of his job as commish), he asked "how do you open it?".

http://www.FireBettman.com

Posted by: joepuckster | June 18, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Green has problems clearing our zone. that is where i saw many of the opposing teams start their rush. by the way, i am not hating on Green. just the opposite: others seem to want to make him out like he is the next coming of Christ. I think the guy is good and will only get better (even his D game).

Posted by: doughless | June 18, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

SombreroGuy...I mean this with all due respect but for Green to have 73 points and only a +24 plus/minus while sharing so much ice time with Ovechkin isn't so great at all.

Posted by: j3rockstar | June 18, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

richmondphil, got to disagree. I am not saying that defensive defensemen haven't won it since Orr, just saying that the offensive component of the award became much more important after Orr.

What is expected from defensemen before Orr and after Orr is completely different. He revolutionized the position unlike any player and changed what voters look for. Not taking anything away from Rod Langway, but I bet if I had a way back machine and asked voters why he won the answer would be because he was a defensive stalwart who changed the atmosphere in Washington and got a pathetic organization into the Stanley Cup playoffs for the first time ever. It is the same buzz surrounding Mason of Columbus for the Vezina...the only problem for Mason is that he is a rookie. If he had been around the league for a few years he would be a shoe-in for that award.

I bet if you went and asked Paul Coffey whether it was he or Orr that caused that change he would even tell you it was Orr.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | June 18, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Richmondphil - Green had the second highest giveaways, Markov was first.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20092ALLDADAll&sort=giveaways&viewName=rtssPlayerStats

Again, when you lead the rush, and are chipping in on offense as a D-man, turnover numbers are going to go way up.

Posted by: SombreroGuy | June 18, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Then what exactly are we disagreeing about?

I said that Orr revolutionized the position, but ever since Coffey, it has always been basically the defender with the most points. Orr is the archetype for an offensive d man, i'm not debating that.

I guess I didn't articulate my point enough. Orr changed how the Norris gets voted, but it was around Coffey and up when it was all offensive, all the time.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 18, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Sombrero:

Phaneuf had more shots, but substantially less giveaways. not sure your statement is airtight about chipping in on offense. again, i saw many giveaways on Caps side of the ice.

Posted by: doughless | June 18, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

SombreroGuy...I mean this with all due respect but for Green to have 73 points and only a +24 plus/minus while sharing so much ice time with Ovechkin isn't so great at all.

Posted by: j3rockstar | June 18, 2009 2:53 PM |

Haha, what?

Show me ANY player who's +/- is around the number of points they scored.

And keep in mind that he scored 30 goals with Ovechkin on the ice. Makes it seem a bit harder.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 18, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

SombreroGuy...I mean this with all due respect but for Green to have 73 points and only a +24 plus/minus while sharing so much ice time with Ovechkin isn't so great at all.

Posted by: j3rockstar | June 18, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse


He's actually most productive when he's on the ice with Semin, but that's another discussion.

Posted by: Section117 | June 18, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

j3rockstar - "I mean this with all due respect but for Green to have 73 points and only a +24 plus/minus while sharing so much ice time with Ovechkin isn't so great at all."

explain. I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

Posted by: SombreroGuy | June 18, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

richmondphil,

I think Paul Coffey was an all-world offensive defensemen, but no player since he has won the award has played his style of all out offense. Mike Green would be the first of that lineage. Nearly all of the other defensemen that have won are straight from the Orr lineage of offensive and defensive capabilities. The two obvious exceptions being Rod Langway and Larry Robinson who were the stay at home defensemen.

In fact, I would argue that the Norris Trophy winners would tend to fall to the more defensively responsible player with some offensive capabilities than the other way around (see Pronger, Niedermeyer, Chelios and Blake)

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | June 18, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

doughless - Phaneuf take shots from the point. When is the last time you saw Phaneuf skate into the zone with the puck and end up circling behind the net before forcing a pass to get back to position? I know its this aspect of Green's game that has defensive purists in a tizzy, but its the reason his giveaways are so high.

Posted by: SombreroGuy | June 18, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Look at all of the fun here! :-D Funny thing is, everyone seems to agree that Green is all that, just not whether or not he should take home the hardware. Well you kids have fun with that - I'm outta here! Ciao!

Oh and, Greg ... :-P

Posted by: Boo- | June 18, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

In fact, I would argue that the Norris Trophy winners would tend to fall to the more defensively responsible player with some offensive capabilities than the other way around (see Pronger, Niedermeyer, Chelios and Blake)

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | June 18, 2009 3:07 PM |

This goes both ways, and you know that. That is why you left off Leetch, Bourque, etc.

Arguing about what changed the Norris voting pattern is a pretty moot discussion. lets move on.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 18, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I agree that Green is good, just NOT Norris Trophy good this year. My point with the plus/minus stat was that while he helps out the team offensively, defensively he has a bit to be desired.

Posted by: j3rockstar | June 18, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Doesn't it make sense that the award goes to a higher scoring d-man more often that not, considering words "best all around" are in the description for the award? If you have far and away better offensive stats, and your defensive stats are right on par with the other elite D-men, doesn't that make you a better "all around" d-man that someone who is just on par in both categories?

Posted by: SombreroGuy | June 18, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

SombreroGuy, I agree with that but by the stats, I believe Green would fall behind the other two nominees this year..

Posted by: j3rockstar | June 18, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

richmondphil, what are you talking about? Coffey had 2 seasons of 40 goals, 2 other seasons of 30 goals, and three more seasons of 29 goals. Brian Leetch maxed out at 23 goals twice and Raymond Bourque had one 31 goal season and a 27 goal season.

Leetch and Bourque were team captains who were more than just responsible in their own end. They were nothing like Paul Coffey. Paul Coffey was a one way defensemen, just like Rod Langway.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | June 18, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

the langway comparison was meant that each played one side of the ice. Coffey the offensive end and Langway the defensive end. I wasn't actually comparing the two players skills.

Posted by: freakinandpeakin | June 18, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

haha, okay.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 18, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Although to argue my own post, the plus/minus stat is a tricky one by means that the stat is alive in all playing situations (PK/PP/etc.)
The player could get his stats murdered if his goalie is having an off night as well. Anyways, I wasn't trying to argue which is what I ended up doing. If Green wins the Norris, then Great. Go Caps and Go Green!! If he doesn't win it, that's fine too! Go Caps and Go Green!!

Posted by: j3rockstar | June 18, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Rockstar, our point is that Green still has one of the highest +/- in the league. So if for some reason you are using it to judge how a player plays, then it seems like a contradicting point. Because, as I said, Green has one of the highest +/-. This is not the late 80s where people rack up +50 +60.

Also, +/- does not increase/decrease if you score while on the PP.

Posted by: richmondphil | June 18, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

@ j3rockstar -

By what stat does Green fall behind? Did you miss this post earlier?

Per 60 minutes played

Mike Green - GF/60: 3.57 GA/60: 2.21

Charra - GF/60: 2.93 GA/60: 2.63

Lidstrom - GF/60: 3.34 ga/60: 2.14

That means Green's team scores 3.57 goals per 60 minutes of time he is on the ice, and allow 2.21. His goals for are significantly better, his goals against are 2nd of the three finalists but by only .07.

Granted, it would appear that based on behind the net's stats, Green face off against weaker competition than the other two, but if you factor in production of goals for as well as preventing the other team from scoring, I challenge you to find any line of stats that proves Mike Green falls behind them.

The fact that he had a nearly identical goals against/60 as Lidstrom negates the "he helps out the team offensively, defensively he has a bit to be desired" argument.

Not trying to pick on you, just trying to show that there is sufficient data that proves the exact opposite.

Posted by: SombreroGuy | June 18, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

What a relief to have a substantive discussion about Green! I would love to see him get the trophy---to me, he was an exciting player to watch during the regular season, e.g. breaking the games-in-a-row scoring streak. The times he didn't "come through" for the team were all the more disappointing because I knew what he was capable of.

I don't agree that the Norris should be given to someone based on more than one year of great playing. I think it should be based on THIS season, period. And, as a completely biased Caps fan, I want it to go to Greenie.

Posted by: dccitizen1 | June 18, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Green is way better then Gonchar....

Posted by: SA-Town | June 18, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

I don't want it to go to Green for one reason only. I want him hungry next year. And peeved that he didn't get it. Pure motivational reasons.

Ovie as MVP isn't a shoo in, either. We've had this discussion on this board before, too. It's between Malkin and Ovie. Both had terrific years. I wouldn't be surprised to see Malkin win it. I wouldn't particularly like it, but...wouldn't surprise me.

I luv you, too, Boo-. :D

Posted by: Greg S. | June 18, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Another thing to think about relating to Green: he's on the ice with Ovie a lot. Which means when Green decides to go flying up the ice with the puck, he's frequently facing down the best 2 D men on the other team. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Posted by: RedBirdie | June 18, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

I'm 99% sure Ovie's getting the Hart tonight. Probably closer vote than last year, but Malkin has a lot working against him.

Posted by: RedBirdie | June 18, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

SombreroGuy, the stats you presented are for goals for/against by team. Do you have one for individual players as well. That's where my I basing my point of Greens DEF> productivity (or lack there of). I may be way off base, which is fine...I'm always willing to admit being wrong.

Posted by: j3rockstar | June 18, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

do you have the stats for individual players? Because its pretty impossible to break it all down like that.

Posted by: RedBirdie | June 18, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

"Another thing to think about relating to Green: he's on the ice with Ovie a lot. Which means when Green decides to go flying up the ice with the puck, he's frequently facing down the best 2 D men on the other team."


That's true. But, his +/- is greatly helped by spending so much time on the ice with Alex. And, the available time and space for him as a pinching defensemen on Ovie's line is probably better than on any other line in the league. Other teams have to key on Alex, thus freeing up some valuable space.

Not to discredit Green, because I think he's a good player ... but he's also benefitting by spending so much ice time with the greatest scorer on earth.

Posted by: PensFan98 | June 18, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

but he's also benefitting by spending so much ice time with the greatest scorer on earth.

Posted by: PensFan98 | June 18, 2009 4:12 PM |

Wow. Who would have thought that a Pens fan would give the Caps Ovie props like that, eh? "Greatest scorer on earth."

I'll bet he just got voted off the Pens island.

Posted by: Greg S. | June 18, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

On Green's stats:

He had, far and away, the best Plus-Minus rating among our defensemen. He was a VERY close second in Plus-Minus for our team in all. He had a MUCH better Plus-Minus rating than the persons who were usually on Ovi's line (i.e. Backstrom and Kozlov). And his statistics were compiled when he had missed at least 10 games this year, mostly with the shoulder injury.

Oddly enough, he and Semin had nearly identical statistics. (I do remember them being on the ice on the same time a fair amount.)

I think the reason Green's PK time nmay be low is because he's the D-man on the ice the most (for even strength) and is also on the ice for almost the ENTIRE power play in power play situations. He could certainly kill penalties but he probably benefits from a rest more. He is, far and away, the team leader in ice time.

It's amazing how soon people forget how good he is when he was both sick and injured during the playoffs.

Posted by: CapsFan75 | June 18, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

I meant to say "goal scorer", but it's a minor point.

And, anyone on Pens Island who wouldn't concede that Ovechkin is the worlds greatest goal scorer would either be lying, or blinded by homer-ism.

Jeff

Posted by: PensFan98 | June 18, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company