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Posted at 11:00 AM ET, 09/12/2008

Ike Stands Alone, Looms Large as Texas Prepares

By Dan Stillman

Galveston, New Orleans already feeling storm's impacts


Water vapor satellite image of Hurricane Ike from this morning. Courtesy NOAA.

Remember a week ago, when Ike was one of three active tropical systems in the Atlantic, in addition to the remnants of Gustav that were raining on parts of the central U.S.?

Well now it's just Ike. Not little old Ike, mind you. But big, sprawling Ike, which has commanded the attention and mandatory evacuation of residents along the Texas coast, including in Galveston where the storm surge could be a catastrophic 20 feet above normal and could cause "certain death," the National Weather Service warns.

Currently (as of 11 a.m.) about 195 miles southeast of Galveston and with maximum sustained winds near 105 mph (Category 2), the eye of the storm is expected to make landfall near Galveston late tonight as a strong Category 2 or possibly a Category 3 storm with sustained winds somewhere around 110 mph and higher gusts.

Keep reading for more on Hurricane Ike, including an interactive tracking map. For local weather, see our full forecast, and SkinsCast for Sunday's regular season home opener against the Saints.


Latest forecast of conditions at landfall. Powered by HAMweather.

In the case of Ike, though, there is little reason to focus too much on the exact category and exact location where the eye will come ashore. That's because Ike is a massive storm in which hurricane force winds extend 120 miles out from the center and tropical storm force winds out to 275 miles. Conditions are already deteriorating along the Texas and Louisiana coast, well in advance of the eye's expected landfall, and New Orleans is being hammered by the storm's northern fringe.

The forecast further inland for the Houston metro area -- sustained winds of 60-80 mph and gusts to around 100 mph with rainfall totals of 5-10", according to the National Weather Service -- is not much better than for Galveston, albeit without the storm surge. Yet, Houston officials have told residents there to stay put in hopes of avoiding the disastrous evacuation experience that occurred in advance of Hurricane Rita in 2005. By this time tomorrow we may know whether or not this was the right decision.

As Ike bears down on southeast Texas, follow the latest news on the Houston Chronicle's Web site, which includes detailed analysis by the Chronicle's SciGuy.

Track Ike with the interactive map below.

Powered by hurricane-tracking software from Stormpulse.com. Forecast tracks are the latest from the National Hurricane Center. Pan, zoom, and click on points along the storm's projected track for intensity forecasts.

By Dan Stillman  | September 12, 2008; 11:00 AM ET
Categories:  Tropical Weather  
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Next: PM Update: Some Rain to End the Work Week

Comments

Have you ever seen the phrase "certain death" in an official forecast before ?

Posted by: MDScot | September 12, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

MDScot: Yes, they've used it before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Weather_Service_bulletin_for_New_Orleans_region

"...PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK...."

Posted by: weatherdudeVA | September 12, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

You can hold your ground against high winds but storm surge simply punches away property. This will be huge. If you in the coastal areas get out!
be safe all

Posted by: Steve | September 12, 2008 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Due to Ike's size, we'll see effects from the remnants Monday even if the remnant low passes to our north as progged. There will probably be thunderstorms and perhaps a few tornadoes if some wind shear remains intact.

Posted by: El Bombo | September 12, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

CNN is reporting that "half of the residents" of Galveston Island have chosen to stay. A few thoughts:

1. These folks have ceded their right to poke fun at NOLA residents.
2. Anyone who chooses to stay and who is responsible for a minor (under 18) should be charged with child neglect.
3. Some--not all--Texans exhibit an odd mix of arrogance and ignorance that, frankly, is disturbing.

Nevertheless, Wisconsin is sending good karma to everyone in harm's way.

Posted by: Wisconsin | September 12, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Learn to swim.

Cuz I'm praying for rain
And I'm praying for tidal waves
I wanna see the ground give way.
I wanna watch it all go down.
Mom please flush it all away.
I wanna watch it go right in and down.
I wanna watch it go right in.
Watch you flush it all away.

Time to bring it down again.
Don't just call me pessimist.
Try and read between the lines.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't
Welcome any change, my friend.

Posted by: P. Alliswell | September 12, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

I find it difficult to believe some people are staying to ride it out. Like Ron White said in one of his spiels: "If you get hit by a Volvo..."

Posted by: docgfd | September 12, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

"3. Some--not all--People exhibit an odd mix of arrogance and ignorance that, frankly, is disturbing."

Fixed that for you.

Posted by: Texas | September 12, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

What is it with human beings and denial?! Unfortunately the people choosing to stay are in for a dose of hard reality. Godspeed.

Posted by: get real | September 12, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Let's keep pretending there's no such thing as global warming. Good strategy.

Posted by: Hilary Smith | September 12, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

The McCain camp should send Palin down there to be with the people of Galveston.

Posted by: Lester | September 12, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

If you choose to stay in the path of that kind of storm and storm surge, you are within your rights to do so (unless you have dependent children with you, in which case you're a despicable moron).

However, if you decide to ride it out, you do so with the understanding that YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN AND HAVE NO RIGHT to endanger the lives of rescue personnel by staying put, getting into trouble, then calling for the Coast Guard to bail your sorry ass out in the middle of a hurricane!

Posted by: Claudius | September 12, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Every time we have a bad hurricane someone starts to yell global warming! Well global warming doesn't cause hurricanes, and the jury is still out on whether it has an impact on hurricane patterns.

Posted by: J. Rice | September 12, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

In addition to charging people with child neglect, authorities should take into custody children whose parents are not evacuating them. Adults are allowed to risk their own lives with idiocy, but the kids have no choice. As everyone marvels at Cuba's ability to evacuate citizens and the incredibly low casualty rates, they miss the main point. Everyone goes! Emergency service personnel should not be put at risk by those who choose to ignore mandatory evacuations. Had the residents of New Orleans complied with the mandatory evacuation for Katrina, limited resources might have been able to deal with the old and infirm, but since 30,000+ chose to stay and then had to be dealt with, the result was chaos. People, it's just a pile of wood and wires when it comes down to it. Those who take the "if it's your time, it's your time" attitude would do better to remember the one about the Lord helping those who help themselves!

Posted by: GG1000 | September 12, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Enough of the negative comments folks... What should be said is that "God Bless ALL".... For whatever life decision one makes. Do not tell me Wisconsin you have never made a bad decision in life. Grow up... With neighbors like you, who needs enemies. You must be a poor soul and we will pray for you.

Posted by: Rob | September 12, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

What is everyone's problem here? On every single article i have been reading about natural disasters, all of the comments underneath them are just people attacking eachother. Specifically Louisiana versus Texas. THIS IS SAD PEOPLE. While i admit that the people of New Orleans were idiots for the looting and killings in the state of Texas, not all Louisiana people are like that, and While i admit that some people of Texas are idiots for being stuck up and full of themselves, NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE THAT. Everywhere you go, you're going to find a bunch of IDIOTS. Quit attacking eachother in a time of need.

Posted by: Me! | September 12, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Those indivduals who arrogantly and stubbornly refused to evacuate should be charged with a crime if anyone dies (directly or indirectly) as a result of an attempted or successful rescue on them. In fact, I would almost be in favor of denying them rescue just as they denied the evacuation order. We should not have to waste time or money on those people when we can better spend it on activities for restoration when this is all done.

Posted by: Holy Hannah | September 12, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Lester you are an idiot. That is all.

Posted by: OhJeesh | September 12, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Also, I just went through Gustav and let me tell you...IT'S HARD TO DECIDE IF YOU'RE GOING TO LEAVE OR NOT...You have to decide if you want to take the chance of dying in your home...or if you want to take the chance of dying somewhere onside the road stuck in traffic or out of gas..WOULDNT YOU SAY THAT'S A PRETTY HARD DECISION..

Posted by: Me! | September 12, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Ike (the Hurricane, not the old President- just think it's weird it was named this and will bring American destrucion-) will not discriminate between race, religion or political agenda. I get tired of all these bloggers and special interest groups that take the Lord's will(i guess that's a little faith/religion on my part) and twist it to attain political or capital gain. Just pray and/or get out the way!

Posted by: Darbs | September 12, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

To those who chose to stay and ride it out: Good jobs on keeping the rescue teams busy in the next couple days, and thank you for wasting my tax money.

Posted by: I come in peace | September 12, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

"I've decided not to evacuate," said iReporter Matteu Erchull on Galveston Island. -CNN

Well Matteu, and for all the other boneheads like you, good luck! It's that mentality that needlessly puts our first responders in harms way.

Posted by: Memphis | September 12, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Holy Hannah has it right people. Seriously. People who complain about a government that set up a system that keeps them down but won't accept personal responsibilty-and use CORRECT free will & judgement when they are warned-need to be held accountable!

Posted by: Darbs | September 12, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I hope the storm brings rain to the dry, thirsty land of Texas. I hope the winds do not destroy the beach homes of my family (who make their livelihood from renting them out). I hope that the worldly people of Houston don't face the flood damage they did in 2001 with Tropical Storm Allison. I hope my friends in Austin aren't stupid enough to go down to Galveston just to see the waves.

I bless the brave ones who stayed, I bless the brave ones who left. My beautiful Texas- you harbor a wild and crazy bunch but I wouldn't have you any other way.

God bless everyone.

Posted by: Texan in California | September 12, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

I am always amazed at arm-chair Quarterbacks, and "outsider" know-it-alls.

First of all, some of you did not ingest or comprehend one of the paragraphs near the end of this article, which says:

"Houston officials have told residents there to stay put in hopes of avoiding the disastrous evacuation experience that occurred in advance of Hurricane Rita in 2005. By this time tomorrow we may know whether or not this was the right decision."

I have only been here in Houston since July 18th. My Daughter and her husband were participants in Hurricane Rita of 2005. There are countless horror stories of people trying to evacuate.

Gas stations run out of gas; cars stall out on the highway, due to having run out of gas and other issues; nearby motels that are out of the "impact area" are all booked.

And lets not forget the whole thing of being stuck in traffic for 15 hours... just to make it to the outskirts of Metropolitan Houston.

People were traveling for 48 hours just to get to Austin or Dallas. It was a nightmare no matter what you did or which way you went. Think of all the crime stories related to Katrina. Think of all the looting and robberies.

And then there are the back-end problems associated with trying to get back into the city when everything is over.

Many of you speak about that which you don't know.

And then there are the people like me. I have no place to go. I don't have family in this area. At best, I could spend the next 48 hours trying to avoid running out of gas, being mugged at a truckstop, being assaulted or robbed, as I pull along the side of the road to try to grab 20 minutes of sleep, because I can no longer keep my eyes open after creeping along at 2 mph for the last 15 hours... with no sleep!

And then there are those that are poor, broke, without transportation, etc, etc, etc. Many of the people that choose to stay know that we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. We are damned if we leave, and damned if we stay.

And for those that may question my having moved here in the first place, or why I would choose to put myself in such a perilous situation, the answer is that I am a Preacher... and I will live where ever I am led to live.

I am one of those Christian's that Believe's that God truly is able to keep me from any and all things He chooses to protect me from.

But I am also one of those Christian's that feels that life is not to be lived in a state of panic and fear. My life is in God's hands with hurricane Ike, just as it is in God's hand when I board the plane, or drive the streets and highway's, or lay down to sleep in my home... with doors and windows that can easily be broken and breached, during my sleep.

If you feel the need to say something, at least show some level of respect and human dignity, and display empathy for those that are remaining behind for any number of understandable reasons. This is not a case where we have chosen to live on the edge "for the rush of it all."

And if you really want to put your money where your mouth is, be part of the solution, instead of just running your mouth. There are always ways that you can help... if you so choose.

Posted by: StayingPut | September 12, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

"This is judegment on the Bush administration for its bad policies...."...but 9/11 wasn't judgement for our movie actors and media that purvey sex, violence and bleeding all day??? It's only God's judgement on the country for the Democrats when it helps them mudsling the Republicans....you're all the same. Eat it!

Posted by: Darbs | September 12, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Having actually been through a real hurricane, unlike most of the people who have posted here, I can tell you that it is a very difficult decision whether to go or stay. Evacuating can be as dangerous as staying. Being thrown into a mass migration can be utter chaos. Where do you get food when all the stores have been emptied? Where do you get gas when all the filling stations are dry? Where do you stay when there is no room at the inn?

Leaving all your worldly posessions behind is very frightening, especially when you know that the police will be overwhelmed with the aftermath of the Hurricane. There is a strong pull to stay put and protect what's yours. So be a little understanding when you see brave soles determined to stay and hunker down. They have made a rational decision that seems best for them under the circumstances.

Posted by: Heartland | September 12, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Listen up people, unless you are in the shoes of those poor people in Texas you should keep your mouths shut unless you are offering up prayers..they were TOLD not to leave, that is because it may be more dangerous for them to be on the open road..it's a tough decision for anyone to make. And lets not bring politics into this..for the love of Mike..these are people..what would you do if this hit your hometown and you had no way of leaving or no where to go. Where is the spirit of America here where we lend a helping hand and hope? We do it to other countries in need why not our own?

Posted by: GoodKarma | September 12, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Great reading for the week: "Isaac's Storm", by Erik Larson. An excellent historical account of the devastating hurricane that demolished Galveston, TX on Sept 8, 1900. Is Ike the storm of the century to repeat the 1900 destruction?

Posted by: Stuart | September 12, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

The homeless should get busses and or aerial support. Otherewise, anyone who can afford rent and has a car AT ALL IN ANY CAPACITY is not to poor to get out of the cities soemhow be it Bus, Plane or Auto. Not in today's world...sorry. If you are CHOOSING to stay that is different. Life is all about CHOICES.

Posted by: Darbs | September 12, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

MANDATORY evacuation means NO CHOICE to stay. There is no choice to consider. Your supposed to GET OUT, LEAVE, EVACUATE because the Authorities and Professional Weather persons beleve your life is in danger if you stay. Period. I also believe Houston is not in the Mandatory Evacuation area, so we are not referring to you, or others like you, when we say ignoring the order puts others at risk, but we are referring to those who have been given the MANDATORY order to evacutate but still refuse to do so because they believe they still have a choice to stay. Mandatory and Choice do not go together per definition.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

See how all of the people interested in weather have stopped posting?

Posted by: Laura in NWDC | September 12, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

The unfortunate issue with this storm is the confusion between the wind intensity forecast, the geographical size of the storm, and the storm surge. Neil Frank did a good job of explaining it in the last hour or so on KHOU. But much of the reporting over the last day may have left people under estimating Ike. The key fact about Ike is its geographical size. That is going to lead to a much bigger storm surge than a normal category 2 hurricane and also to many more people than usual actually experiencing hurricane force winds. There will not be the kind of damage that happened in Homestead in Andrew where a neighborhood was destroyed by the wind. But even in a category 4 hurricane only small areas see that kind of wind damage. In this case, it looks as though very large parts of the Houston area are going to experience several hours of hurrican force winds. More importantly, some locations along the coast are already under water from the storm surge. It looks like there is a very good chance that a storm surge appropriate for a category 4 or 5 hurricane will actually materialize. That storm surge will leave low lying areas along the coast under water and is likely to cause a high mortality rate among people who refused to evacuate.

Posted by: dnjake | September 12, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

@Stuart

I agree, Issac's Storm still remains one of my favorite books. Great account of not only the storm, but the period's techniques and abilities when it came to tropical weather, forecasting, and preperation. Go out and get a copy today!

Posted by: Jamie Jones, CapitalWeather Gang | September 12, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

If there are poor, elderly, broke or without transportation in that area, they should get a ride with somebody else. Can't people help each other in a devastating storm? If I had to evacuate and knew a neighbor had no way out, I'd give them a ride. Probably those staying behind are afraid of looters afterward, like the noble citizens of New Orleans did after Katrina.

Posted by: Help One Another.... | September 12, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

I hope everyone gets out of Galveston in time. After this is over, the federal government should make clear to those who choose to rebuild on Galveston Island that they do so entirely at their own risk, and that no federal flood insurance will be made available.

People who choose to live on barrier islands should be prepared to lose their dwellings and their contents.

The federal government should NOT underwrite risky development of barrier islands.

Posted by: Sasquatch | September 12, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

According to the Weather Channel there have already been 150 water rescues by the Coast Guard! Also, they reported spotting a
couple of boneheads on wave runners in Galveston Bay.

Posted by: Duh! | September 12, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Camden:

Is there a capwx app or local radar app i can download to my blackberry?
Getting married outdoors tomorrow, and need to keep a close on rain!!!

Thanks!

Posted by: Rishi | September 12, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

To judge from the roughly 200 storm surge drowning deaths in Mississippi during Katrina, many people must not understand this threat. Or perhaps there was folklore to the effect that no storm surge could be worse than that of Camille, years earlier.

Posted by: Dave of the Coonties | September 12, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Rishi -- We don't have our own blackberry/mobile phone radar app for you ... but it is on the drawing board for some day. In the meantime, there are various radar apps out there for cell phones. One my favorites is http://www.digitalcyclone.com/products/mobile-my-cast/, though I don't think it works for blackberrys.

Posted by: Capital Weather Gang | September 12, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

A Levee south of New Orleans has been breached by Ike's storm surge:

AT 130 PM CDT...LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS REPORTED A 50 FOOT BREECH OF A PRIVATE LEVEE NEAR SCARSDALE.

Posted by: Ian, Capital Weather Gang | September 12, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Heartland:

I've been through hurricane evacuations also, and yes, it sucks, but the alternative can be far, far worse. Most of the people who have decided to remain in areas that are under mandatory evacuation orders are not being rational in any sense of the word. They're betting--with their lives--that the worst won't happen. Sometimes that bet pays off. Sometimes it doesn't. The point the rest of us were making was that if you choose to make that bet, OK, but you don't get to bet with the lives of rescue personnel also.

The storm surge, according to the NWS, was already 8 feet in Galveston at 12:45 ET. Not a good sign.

Posted by: Claudius | September 12, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

you can't blink. you just can't

god's will. god's will.

Posted by: palin | September 12, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

I loved Isaac's Storm as well-- they had no warning in Galveston back then, no idea what a storm surge would do to the island. That hurricane was total devestation. The pics alone are worth the price of the book. We have come a long way in 100 years.

God bless Galveston and Houston-- we wish you safety. Our thoughts are with all who are in the path of Ike.

Posted by: science teacher (Arnold) | September 12, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

A suggestion to the Capital Weather Gang people. The next time that there is a hurricane simply don't issue updates about it. That way the site won't be listed by Google and the nut jobs from all over the country won't come here and battle about politics and show how stupid they are.

Posted by: Jay | September 12, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Just talked to friend. Floridaans now know to be on call to leave and evacuate at anytime. After Sunami anything can happen. Houston should evacuate all residents. This is not the time to hesitate. Check with news 4 jax. they take the storms seriously. Check on the elderly, disabled Don't let New Orleans happen agian. Have Emergency Ambulances out on the highways for Houstons last diaster. Provide Gas not the Oil Co. jack up the price. when people are down, they should have to pay New Orleans residents for damages.

Posted by: Fla. Resident | September 12, 2008 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Laura in NWDC so true. So, so true.

Posted by: John - Burke | September 12, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Question for Cap Weather Team. 5 o'clock NHC advisory says that water has already risen 9 ft. Is it normal for water to rise before the storm like it is currently doing? I thought surge was a bubble of weather associated with eye of the storm. The bubble bursts so to say upon landfall of the center of the storm.

Posted by: Mike | September 12, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

TX Gov Perry stated this could be a 100 billion dollar storm.

Posted by: Ian, Capital Weather Gang | September 12, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

I tend to find most die hard democrats and republicans to be an extremely ignorant bunch. The dem's posting on this board take that to another level, congrats. Apparently stupidity has no limits.

Posted by: Get of your soap box | September 12, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if Ron Paul will follow his principles and not ask for FEMA assistance. But then the governor will...

Posted by: JIm Lundberg | September 12, 2008 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Actually we rescue personnel (Pararescue) love to risk our lives that others may live. It kind of makes life worth more when we cheat death rescuing someone who is SOL. But then if we get hurt doing so, the someone has to come and rescue me, which is would be even more embarrassing for the initial rescuee...

Posted by: JIm Lundberg | September 12, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

As was stated by someone else... Houston is NOT in the "mandatory evacuation" category. We have not been told to evacuate.

But even though I am staying put, due to having not been told that I must evacuate... I do agree that the people that the people on the coast that chose to defy the mandatory evacuation... they should be held accountable.

As this article points out, if residents are being warned of "certain death" should they opt to stay, that is inexcusable, because it is going to force our emergency response personnel to risk their lives to save the life of someone that acted in a very self-centered manner.

We know that even if that person survives, but finds themselves trapped, rescue workers must risk their lives needlessly.

If Houston came under a mandatory evacuation that stated "certain death" would await anyone that stayed... even though I do not fear death... I would leave, in order to avoid putting someone else's husband, wife, or parent at risk, in their attempt to save me.

The worse thing that could happen to me in that event, would be for me to defy the order... and some rescue person die, while saving my life.

That is something people should consider.

Unfortunately, most of us live in the world of "it will never happen to me," so we will undoubtedly be having such conversations as this forever.

Best wishes to all... especially the rescue professionals that risk everything for the sake of others.

Posted by: StayingPut | September 12, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Laura in NWDC, yes, it is true.

I'm here, just reading.

Posted by: Murre | September 12, 2008 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Ike finally has a nice eye this evening and has strengthened to 110 mph. On the cusp of being a category 3.

Posted by: Ian, Capital Weather Gang | September 12, 2008 7:10 PM | Report abuse

In your article, you write,'... and could cause "certain death," the National Weather Service warns.'

When I follow the "certain death" hyperlink, that article says, 'The National Weather Service warns anyone that stays in low-lying coastal areas "may face certain death" if they refuse to evacuate.'

So you wrote, "could cause certain death" and the National Weather Service said "may face certain death". That seems incongruent to me. How can you say COULD CAUSE certain death? That doesn't make any sense. Either it will or it won't cause CERTAIN death. I could understand a phrase such as "could cause death", but not "could cause certain death".

I understand you were simply parroting what the National Weather Service put out, but that still doesn't make it right. Don't you owe it to your readers to point out the obvious incongruency in their statement? Surely it had to be obvious to you.

There were thousands of people who stayed behind in Galveston. What happens to the credibility of the National Weather Service if thousands of people in Galveston are just fine? And what happens to the credibility of forecasters as a whole?

The only people who will have any credibility are the forecasters who stood up and said, "Hold on! That isn't true!".

What will happen to the credibility of scientists (as a group) and the media (as a group) when global temperatures continue downward?

Bueller? Bueller?

Mr. Q.

Posted by: Mr. Q. | September 13, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I wasn't as clear as I could have been in my previous post. Please allow me to rectify that.

The phrases "COULD cause certain" and "MAY face certain" are oxymorons. Certain is an either or condition. You are either certain or you are not certain.

Mr. Q.

Posted by: Mr. Q. | September 13, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

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