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MoveOn.org Takes Multiple Hits in the Senate

Today was MoveOn.org day in the Senate, with the chamber approving multiple resolutions condemning the liberal anti-war group's recent ad attacking General David Petraeus on the eve of last week's congressional testimony.

The Senate, by a bipartisan 72-25 vote, passed a resolution that singled out the group for its now infamous "General Betray Us" ad in the New York Times. The resolution, sponsored by Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), declared that the MoveOn ad "impugns the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all the members of the United States Armed Forces."

As a pre-emptive measure, Democrats offered a softer version. It criticized the MoveOn ad - without actually mentioning the group by name - but also criticized campaign attacks on the military service of former Sen. Max Cleland (D-Ga.) and Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.). "Such personal attacks on those with distinguished military service to our nation have become all too frequent," the resolution, sponsored by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), read. That resolution passed 50-47, with just two Republicans supporting it.

But after nearly two weeks of political hot air over the "Betray Us" ad, another vote occurred with little fanfare that has far more relevance to the liberal anti-war group and its mission: Sen. Russell Feingold's amendment that would cut off all funding for the war by next June 30.

The Wisconsin Democrat's amendment, which would begin redeploying troops out of Iraq within 90 days of being signed into law, is the strongest anti-war amendment that will be voted on during this month's consideration of the Defense authorization bill. It epitomizes the sentiment of MoveOn supporters -- but the vote tally also epitomizes the reality of the politics inside the chamber in terms of ending the Iraq war any time soon.

Feingold's amendment attracted just 28 votes, with 70 senators opposing it. Yes, the leading contenders for the Democratic presidential nomination - Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Barack Obama (Ill.) - supported the Feingold amendment. As did Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), Majority Whip Richard Durbin (D-Ill.) and the two other members of Reid's elected leadership team: Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Patty Murray (D-Wash.).

But 21 other members of Reid's caucus balked at Feingold's get-out-now approach, including four freshman senators who ousted incumbent Republicans a year ago with plenty of help from the anti-war crowd: Bob Casey (Pa.), Claire McCaskill (Mo.), Jon Tester (Mont.) and James Webb (Va.).

The Cornyn and Feingold amendments, with their nearly identical vote totals, serve as an essential benchmark for where things stand among the liberal wing of the Senate. Roughly 70 senators do not support MoveOn as a political organization, but more importantly about the same number reject the group's core mission: ending the Iraq war as quickly as possible.

And when MoveOn is backed into a political - and legislative corner - it only has about 25 Democrats it can count on to lend any support.

Regardless of the group's senatorial support, it has not backed down on the controversial ad. A link to the ad, which appeared in the New York Times, remains on the home page. In addition, the group's home page is currently blasting a headline attacking the Cornyn and Boxer resolutions, saying, "The U.S. Senate just told you to sit down and be quiet." It links to an online petition trying to keep pressure on the Senate over the war.

By Paul Kane  |  September 20, 2007; 5:39 PM ET
 
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Comments

I am amazed at the depth of duplicity that this Congress practices. Unable to pass legislation that proactively addresses healthcare for the uninsured, our decaying infrastructure, as well as their continued inability to ensure that our soldiers be provided with leave equivalent to their TDY, Congress instead uses sleight of hand techniques and spends our time and money spanking a political organization for their advertisement - Congress is nothing more than a high priced echo chamber.

Posted by: Beverly McCartt | September 20, 2007 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Senators may not be behind them but they are sure giving them a lot of free publicity.

Posted by: carlos | September 20, 2007 8:18 PM | Report abuse

When I think of all we've seen these past 7 years. Katrina: watching elderly citizens die on TV in front of our eyes. Abu Ghraib: just a few bad apples. No. As it turns out, policy. On and on, until the lies and incompetence and stupidity, and dishonor and loss of credibility becomes unendurable. Today I just gave up on the government of this country. And while it's good to have this place to vent, I can't say much more for the media.

Posted by: Laura | September 20, 2007 9:01 PM | Report abuse

In 1969 I spoke out publicly against the Vietnam War out of uniform as a private citizen and Vietnam veteran, not as a Naval Officer - and certainly not as the military officer commanding all the forces in a major conflict. Although I don't believe General Petraeus gave a totally balanced assessment of the situation in Iraq in his Senate testimony, it is not HE who was betraying us by that presentation, but the Washington political establishment that was craven enough to ask him or allow him to give testimony in such a public forum on such a political issue. The commanding officer of a military offensive that's going very badly would be betraying his troops to be less than positive and optimistic about the mission. Putting our military commanders in this situation is destructive to both our military and our democracy. Our civilian leaders choose the missions and must bear the responsibility when those missions turn out to have been mistaken or unwinnable. Our high ranking military officers should not be allowed to become political figures or make political statements while still in command of major forces - or we should go back to the early American practice of electing our military officers - or give military units democratic veto power over major offensives. As impractical as that sounds (and probably is in today's fast paced world), is it any less practical than letting inexperienced politicians like George W. Bush send our military into foolish immoral imperialistic wars with inadequate material and spiritual support from the American people. Or, alternatively, military advice should be given to political leaders in closed session where only that particular officer's reputation and career would be on the line - not the entire relationship between the American people and its military. We may now still be the unquestionably most powerful military force on the planet and in history but it is foolish to think that there won't be real and serious challenges ahead - or that we don't need to be careful about weakening through misuse and abuse the American people's opinion of, trust in, and support for our military. Challenges and missions will come and go. The military must remain - strong, trusted, honored. And if we compromise our democracy with lies and abuses in the process of "defending" it, what will it all have been for?

Posted by: Vietnam Pilot | September 20, 2007 9:14 PM | Report abuse

Uh, the percentages seem backward, since about 70% of us already expected Petraeus to go along with the Bush orthodoxy. For a month now we've been bait-switched "military success" for actual progress. Until things remain safe AFTER the troops leave then nothing has been gained.

Posted by: Chris Fox | September 20, 2007 9:18 PM | Report abuse

The moveon.org ad was sophomoric and the group should be faulted for making themselves the issue instead of the war. But for the U.S. Senate to comment on political speech flagrantly violates the spirit of the first amendment, and should be roundly condemned itself.

Posted by: iowegian | September 20, 2007 9:42 PM | Report abuse

The U.S. Senate just told American citizens to sit down and be quiet when they passed a Republican amendment condemning MoveOn.

Every day, our brave men and women are dying in a bloody civil war this Senate has done nothing to stop. Yesterday, they couldn't even pass a bill to give soldiers adequate leave from war to be with their families before redeploying. But they're spending time cracking down on a newspaper ad?

So, MoveON is making clear where America stands. They're releasing a statement from MoveOn members-and anyone else who feels the same way-saying, "We will not be quiet, we will fight back. We will keep speaking out until our Congress forces an exit plan for this awful war."

--------------------------

A BURIED 60 Minutes INTERVIEW / INDICTMENT....WATCH IN ON YOUTUBE.COM


10 DAYS AFTER INAUGURATION

8 MONTHS BEFORE 9/11 BUSH WAS ORDERING HIS CABINET TO "GO FIND ME A WAY TO DO THIS."


NEW POLICY: PRE-EMPTIVE WAR.


IN A JANUARY AND FEBRUARY OF 2001 CABINET MEETING PLANS FOR A POST-SADDAM IRAQ & DIVVYING UP IRAQ'S OIL WEALTH WERE BEING DISCUSSED.

PENTAGON DOCUMENT DATED MARCH 5, 2001 ENTITLED: "Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts". It includes a map of potential areas for oil exploration in Iraq.

STILL THINK THE WAR IS ABOUT FOREIGN TERRORISTS WHEN OUR PORTS AND BORDERS ARE STILL UNPROTECTED SIX YEARS AFTER 9/11 AND OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS STILL REFUSING TO PROTECT AMERICAN CITIZENS BY ENFORCING OUR EXISTING IMMIGRATION LAWS AND MEXICAN TRUCKS WITH QUESTIONABLE CARGO IS BEING PUSHED BY BUSH AND MANY OF OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO HAVE FREE ACCESS TO AMERICAN TAXPAYER HIGHWAYS AND WHEN MORE THAN 48,000 AMERICAN CITIZENS HAVE BEEN MURDERED AT THE HANDS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS, INCLUDING ONE ARIZONA POLICE OFFICE THAT WAS MURDERED BY AN ILLEGAL ALIEN TODAY?! AND OUR GOVERNMENT REFUSING TO PROTECT AMERICAN CITIZENS AND OUR CHILDREN WITH THEIR TRADE DEALS, PREFERRING INSTEAD TO PROTECT ILLEGAL ALIENS WITH SANCTUARY CITIES AND CHURCHES THAT HARBOR AND PROMOTE THE BREAKING OF OUR LAWS BY ILLEGAL ALIENS! AND ATTEMPTS TO PIECE MEAL THEIR FAILED AMNESTY BILL S. 1639 ONTO OTHER BILLS SUCH AS ATTACHING THE "DREAM ACT" (WHICH IS AMNESTY), TO THE DEFENSE BILL THAT IS BEFORE THE SENATE RIGHT NOW! THEY WANT TO GIVE BENEFITS TO ILLEGAL ALIENS THAT AMERICAN CITIZENS DON'T HAVE!

AMERICAN TAXPAYER MILITARY AND AMERICAN TAXPAYER DOLLARS ARE BEING USED...FOR PRIVATE AGENDAS...FOR PRIVATE PROFITS!

IT'S TIME AMERICAN CITIZENS LET THOSE IN THEIR GOVERNMENT KNOW THEY WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS BETRAYAL ANY LONGER!

PHONE, FAX, AND EMAIL YOUR SENATORS AND REPRESENATIVES AND LET THEM KNOW WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH...NO AMNESTY...NO BAD TRADE DEALS...NO MORE WARS FOR OIL AND WAR PROFITS...NO MORE BETRAYAL...THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!


Posted by: calumonit | September 20, 2007 11:48 PM | Report abuse

To "Vietnam Pilot" and "Beverly McCartt"...

You couldn't have said it better!

Posted by: Vunderlutz - | September 21, 2007 7:57 AM | Report abuse

Where was the almighty moralist, Bush, when the swift boat thugs were attacking Kerry and Matt McClellan(the paraplegic vietnam war hero), who by the way weren't awol from service,or finding ways to defer military service, like the vast majority of theneocons who initiated this unnecessary, hideos, war.

Posted by: john | September 21, 2007 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Congress can go straight to hell! In fact, they're already there.

The entire "war on terror" is a fake and a fraud. The main terrorist who's caused the most destruction in the world sits in the Oval Office! Mr. Bush is a liar and a deceiver!

Think: put options on American and United Airlines stock just days before 9/11. SOMEBODY KNEW IT WAS COMING! They reaped multi millions in this mass murder.

The president's brother, Marvin Bush, was involved in security in the WTC towers. Why is the media so afraid to dig into this?

The president's other brother, Jeb, the governor of Florida, declared martial law a bit prematurely on 9/11, a smoking gun if you'd bother to check that out.

Mr. Greenspan has now said invading Iraq was all about oil. Of course it was! Bush lied, and American lives are being wasted so big oil can reap the blood money. Over 100,000 private mercenaries in Iraq, like Halliburton, raking in part of Bush's blood money.

bin Laden was allowed to escape. Was checked by an American doctor in an American hospital in Dubai. The FBI does not even list him as wanted for 9/11.

9/11 was an inside job. The president, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and others are guilty of treason and murder! And it appears Congress feeds on these lies of Bush.

Pardon me for saying it: F___ CONGRESS!

Posted by: Jon Shafer | September 21, 2007 11:26 AM | Report abuse

I just sent MoveOn.org another $100

Posted by: massimo | September 21, 2007 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Now our Gov't is attacking citizen participation in the political process. How much more can we disgrace our Country?

Posted by: Pat Cuviello | September 21, 2007 12:03 PM | Report abuse

The Senate should just move on instead of discussing trivial crap. They should read the article on the IPS about Petraeus's superior officer Admiral Fallon. Who according to "sources familiar with reports of the meeting" said Fallon considered Patraeus "an a**-kissing little chickens**t" and added, "I hate people like that," Maybe they wouldn't think so highly of Bush's general du jour. It's no wonder Congresses approval rating is in the tank,....septic tank that is.

Posted by: NumbinFL | September 21, 2007 12:31 PM | Report abuse

moveon.org = buncha Jews blowin' smoke

After all their huffin and puffin, Joe Lieberman still got reelected and now he has more clout than before.

They don't want a pull out because Israel might be hurt by ensuing chaos.

Might as well make Iraq the 51st state,there's no way out

Posted by: anonymous | September 21, 2007 1:22 PM | Report abuse

I watched the vote on C-Span....

It's the end of free speech in America --if a Lying NeoCon Fascist says someone in his club has "honor and a resume and a uniform" you can't question him..... period... he'll tell you whats real.... he'll tell you what to believe is true.

Despite MULTIPLE Independent sources of Evidence that *directly* contradict the NeoCons claims -- you can't question him.... Nope.... Rude Rude Rude. "hes wearing a uniform... and you know how gays love a man in uniform.... It's Springtime for Hitler.

And if you do have the courage to question a one sided report that we KNOW was cooked.... .... expect that you will be attacked by the Senate of the United States for even asking the question....

It's the end of Democracy... All that's left is the coming election fraud.

I'm glad I'm old.... It's gonna be so ugly for our kids kids kids....

Posted by: whomung | September 21, 2007 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Not content with depriving Americans of their habeas corpus and Fourth Amendment rights, the Republicans and Bush-lite Democrats are now going after our First Amendment rights.

Posted by: tarzanne | September 21, 2007 2:46 PM | Report abuse

So, when is the Senate going to vote to condemn the swiftboat ads? Or, how about the ads W's campaign ran in 2000 against McCain? As for me, I'm doubling my contributiuons to moveon. It's about time someone stood up to one of Bush's mouthpieces.

Posted by: eed017 | September 21, 2007 3:34 PM | Report abuse

I strongly agree that only a very unrealistic person would expect a soldier - whose code is to NEVER diss a superior officer - to say publicly that the Iraq "policy" is a total wreck.

There are few among us who would tell the world that the boss is a dope.

Posted by: Dick Brandlon | September 21, 2007 4:31 PM | Report abuse

well..it is amazing how fast the Congress jumped on the MoveOn organization and voted to condemn them ..too bad they cannot move that fast on doing something to stop the win-less,sense-less war in Iraq..or stop the waste of tax payer money at the Pentagon and other government agencies .let's face it ,they are all ineffective in serving the People...Voters are watching!!!!

Posted by: Joyce | September 21, 2007 4:53 PM | Report abuse

I wish MoveOn would do something constructive like call for a policy of containment as the early Cold Warriors did in the 1940s instead of engaging in these stupid name calling sessions. I supported John Kerry in 2004, and wrote a piece urging him to support containment with regards to Iraq. I even compared him somewhat to Dean Acheson. But nothing!You can find my "letter to the editor," which I originally submitted as an Op-Ed in the Key West Solares Hills News in May 2004. I was also disappointed in the paper and one of its editors for not using it as an Op-Ed.

Posted by: Frank | September 21, 2007 8:27 PM | Report abuse

Mrs Clinton's votes for the Feingold amendment and against the MoveOn.org ad will come back to haunt her in the 2008 general election. She has allied herself with the loonies -- so much for pretending to be a moderate. She may think she is in touch with the political situation, but she is out of touch with reality. Note: these votes will also hurt Democratic candidates for the Senate next year.

Posted by: J Baustian | September 21, 2007 9:35 PM | Report abuse

No way to describe our fury at those in congress who are too ingrained in partisanship and posturing to do anything positive for our people at home or for our soldiers at war.

So in the senate they attack an attack ad, basically calling the kettle black, while wasting valuable senator-time and making the whole process a freakin' joke!

60 votes, here we come and MoveOn, here's another kudo and a few more bucks to you.

Posted by: preAmerikkkan | September 21, 2007 10:43 PM | Report abuse

To witness the Senate condemn free speech under the aegis of the Republican Party is a "trademark" i think belongs more to Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

Obviously,the war machine is not taking any prisoners.

the gutless Democrats are helping to finish off what Constitutional freedoms the Bush Republicans forgot to dismantle under the guise of fighting Terrorism. Republican Terrorism, that is.

like one song says, " this is what we have waited for, this is it, boys. this is war."

Nothing will stand in the way of the Republicans' well orchestrated consolidation of power. The Quisling Democrats might as well resign for all the good they are doing.

the Democrats should be replaced with cardboard cutouts for all the "good" they are doing. if i wanted blind unquestioning syncophants i would have voted for a Republican.

the Republicans are in their glory and the Spineless Democrats are abetting them in their Rovian attack on civil liberties.

Free speech is another of the casualties of the war for OIL. Amazing how similar the tactics of this war is as compared to the WW2.

Quislings, Good Germans, external threats. easy marks. business' co-opting for profit.

Most frightening is the deafening silence from the Press. everyone hoping "it" will go away if they don't say anything. Just like the Jews went, so goes our freedoms.
just as efficiently and effectively.

Have these people no shame?

Posted by: Bernard | September 22, 2007 3:01 AM | Report abuse

Westmoreland was right too, when he said things were going swimmingly well in Nam!!!
58000 lives and 350000 maimed Americans and 3 million Vietnamese deaths later maybe these guys don't always speak of know the truth.

Afterall, there is room for one more star on this guys shoulder and a medal of freedom awaiting Petreus if he gives the AWOL cowboy what he wants to hear...Bush is going to ride this guy for the rest of Presidency as he is getting the spoutings that he wants, and he gives a good appearance on TV. He doesn't appear to lie as much as poodle Gen. Myers and his carreer minded minions did, or he's just better at it....This Unnecessary war is going to add another $2 Trillion debt on top of the 9 trillion we have now, and they have to raise the debt ceiling again as we need to borrow more $$$ from the Chinese....What happens when they quit lending?? Where was shrub when the swift boat snakes were doing there slandering...Where was he than...I know where he was ...Karl and him were COUNTING VOTES

Posted by: john | September 22, 2007 8:44 AM | Report abuse

A letter to Senator John Cornyn:
Dear Senator Cornyn:

My people came to the colonies in the 1600s and were among the founders of AMERICA - HOME OF THE BRAVE AND LAND OF THE FREE - A PROTESTANT COUNTRY! We fought, sacrificed and died for our cherished Constitutional First Amendment freedoms. My (5-greats) grandfather was a hero during the Revolutionary War. Any member of congress who is too fragile for our cherished First Amendment rights that we exercised when we challenged General Petraeus's attempt to betray us, our country and our soldiers, should find another country. This one is ours!

I am a proud member of MoveOn.Org. I chose to become a member of MoveOn.Org because they have America's best interest at heart, unlike most of the 535 members of congress.

The majority of Americans want change. We voted for that change in the last election. We want this war to stop. We want our Christian soldiers to come home to their families. Stop killing our soldiers. Stop squandering our treasury. Stop killing innocent Iraqis. STOP THIS WAR!

Your resolution attacking MoveOn.Org for our challenge to General Petraeus is unAmerican! We did not impugn the honor and integrity of the U.S. Armed Forces." We challenged General Petraeus and his motives to continue a war that is a colossal failure. Our brave soldiers are suffering egregious abuses by multiple deployments. Our brave soldiers are nothing more than cannon fodder to Bush, Republican congressmen and the neocons. You don't give a damn about our soldiers. If you did, you would stop allowing them to die in this "war of choice not necessity!" As Greenspan stated, "this war is about oil!"

You and the other 69 insidious members of the Senate who are intimidated by MoveOn.Org and are attempting to suppress our cherished Constitutional freedoms are unfit to serve this country. You may not agree with what I say, but I have a Constitutional right to say it. Your pernicious behavior is an affront to our Constitution which you took an oath to protect. Have you no shame sir? At long last, have you no shame?

Chagrined,

M. Delphia Block

Posted by: M. Delphia Block | September 23, 2007 4:55 AM | Report abuse

Too bad the media, including the Wash. Post and politicians didn't question Bush's reasons for going into Iraq. The almighty advertisement $$$ couldn't be risked, I guess...Meanwhile $3 billion a week down the drain, and Bush is making sure that the Fed. Govt. doesn't assist too much with our children's insurance...As Bush was quoted in the last book out on him (I forget the title "Dead Right or something) he said that he envied "His dad and bill clinton on the bucks they were making on the speaking trail, what is it 50 or 75 he said"?....He said no hanging about the UN for him when there is that kind of money to be made...How could a person with any conscience say something like that, with all of the destruction and mayhem he has caused in the world??

Posted by: john | September 23, 2007 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Bush, having destroyed the credibility of so much of our civil government, is now destroying the credibility of our military by using our charished tradition of civilian control to essentially force a commanding general to parrot white house policy for political gamesmanship.
Shame on the Congress for voting to condemn MoveOn.org for challenging General Petraeus' testimony.
Message to our military defenders: We need you now to use your professionalism to insist that military personnel NOT be used as political pawns while our country is once more led into an illegal and immoral war by an incompetent civilian leadership.
Message to Congress: We need a bill out of Congress to condemn and make illegal this administration's use of military personnel to push a failed policy.

Posted by: Andy | September 23, 2007 12:06 PM | Report abuse

"9/11 was an inside job. The president, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and others are guilty of treason and murder!" I'm assuming the 'others' is Bill Clinton .

Clinton, in a speech to the Joint Chiefs of Staff Feb. 17, 1994 said: "If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity" That was the beginning.

Again Clinton said June 22, 2003, on "Larry King Live," "It is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons."
Who's lying, here?

There will come a day that we will fight for oil if we don't start drilling for oil, or invent an alternative because oil is essential to survival. That time has not yet come.

Furthermore, if we needed oil, going to war with Hussein was the wrong thing to do when we could have gotten it just by the asking

What would FDR have done in WW11 if Americans had undermined the war against Hitler as some are now doing in this war against terrorism?

It is time we lay aside political agendas.

With God's help, we can win this war on terrorism. If we surrender now, our children and grandchildren will be forced to fight terrorists on American soil.

Posted by: been around a long time | September 24, 2007 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Paul said that the Democratic alternative "passed" 50-47. Don't resolutions need 2/3 majority to pass? Therefore, the Republican (bipartison) criticism of Move-on.org passed and the Democratic 'alternative' failed to pass. Another example of media errors confusing the honest facts.

Posted by: Jeff | September 24, 2007 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Excellent site, added to favorites!!

Posted by: finger | September 24, 2007 1:18 PM | Report abuse

I too gave a donation to MoveOn last week after the senate voted. The democrats are wimps again. They fall to the republican spin-machine everytime. This country has gone to .... who are we to tell other countries what democracy should be like?

Posted by: worried in Ohio | September 24, 2007 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Any moral capital that the Senate possessed has already been spent by Bush and his now routed Senate cadre. The morally bankrupt Senators now pretend to wield moral judgement over the highly principled Moveon organization yet cannot find it within their competence to do their jobs as legislators who can articulate the needs of our country.

Posted by: Tony Lopez | September 24, 2007 9:23 PM | Report abuse

I want to take this opportunity to thank MoveOn.Org for giving we the American people a voice to express our shock and anger at the collapse of the American Dream and the rise of the American Nightmare. The colours of the American Flag run bleeding from a lack of truthfulness and integrity on the part of our elected officials, while the star spangled banner plays above a muffled din of screams and mangled corpses of Iragies and American soldiers who are dying for the military/industrial complexes need for oil and conquest.

Shock and Awe has turned inward to Shock and Outrage as the Idiot Savant President and his band of merry men and women daily mock the promise that was and still is America.

The Democratic party has quandered any right to call itself the opposition and laid bare the need for a party of true patriots that are willing to live and die in order to lead the way toward a brighter future for all citizens of the world.

As an African American who works in Harlem I would like to close by echoing the immortal words of one our greatest talk show host, Bill O'Reilly "Where is my MF..ing Tea"

Posted by: Anderson Hitchcock | September 25, 2007 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree with most of the anti-senate comments I've read here so far. I too, am greatly disappointed at this attack on moveon.org when the senate or congress failed to ever respond to the nastiest organizations I have ever see dicing democratic candidates during the last two elections. Moveons comments to me were not a lie (Most of those used before by the Republicans were out-right lies). The Senate and especially the democrats, fail to place the responsibility where it should lie - with the President. He placed the generaL in the same position as he has others in his administration like his head of the Justice Department - giving them the responsilibity (and of course they accept to be loyal to their chief) for carrying out his political agenda and then always smugly denying they are carrying out his agenda. Those that carry out his actions always fail to responsibility carry out their responsibilities to the agency they head. A wise and politically brave president would never place his staff in such positions and an ethically strong agency head would insist on challenging the president if he thought him wrong. I've never seen or read of any of the Bush appointees (unless its his vice president) challenging his position on anything - and anyone in the establishment that ever challenged was destined to be ousted quickly. I've also noted more and more people talking about the nastiness going on in government, and there are more anti-religion negative comments than I've ever experienced in my life-time and I'm 74 years old. I've only voted for a republican president one time and I won't say I'll never do it again because I'm now also very upset with the actions of the democrats as well. I've been a contributor to the democratic party but I think now I need to send it to moveon.org as it seems the only thing the demos are doing right now is raising money - they'll take it from anyone and especially from the ones that realloy inflouenced the present regime (should we expect a different result?) I receive phone and mail requests weekly to give more so they can challenge the Republicans and yet I am seeing the opposite happening in this case. It looks like they are looking out for themselves as usual. I wonder what Senator Byrd said about this vote!

Posted by: TomRay | September 25, 2007 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Max Clelland and John Kerry!!! Kerry accused the American forces of unspeakable atrocities during VietNam and his VietNam service was a joke. He even lied about being in Cambodia. He threw COPIES of his "awards" away. Max Clelland, touted as someone who was terribly wounded "in battle" actually lost three limbs when -- on his way to a beer party -- picked up a live grenade. Rnouth -- Enough -- Enough

Posted by: Elllen | September 25, 2007 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Elllen, you were there, of course, and know that what you say is the (swift-boat) "truth", don't you?

Or are you just another Limbaugh/Hannity/Coulter-believing dittohead? Yes, ENOUGH!

Posted by: Idoogye | September 25, 2007 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Thank you, Delphia Block, for inserting truth into the stupid Senate censure vote, and quoting the line that broke McCarthy's back. In fact, there is no shame in Congress for their subversion of basic American values and principles. Our country has been taken over by what amounts to a gangster with an army, our army, which he is using for his own oil-based agenda. The real irony is that there is technology available (and kept secret in the C.I.A. coffers) that would end the need for oil entirely. Naturally Bush and Big Oil are committed to avoiding any transition to a different, non-polluting, more efficient energy. They'd rather kill Iraqis in an attempt to 'privatize' their oil. Why are Americans standing for this cruel joke of an administration, which is at least as corrupt as the countries they accuse of being the axis-of-evil. What Bush said about Saddam, and now the Iranian president, is much more true of him. He has made our country a pariah in the world.

Posted by: shaman7214@sbcglobal.net | September 25, 2007 3:05 PM | Report abuse

tv watching better than that

Posted by: browns | September 27, 2007 7:23 PM | Report abuse

I am very disgusted by the Senate (and House) Resolution to condemn the ad by MoveOn.org. Since when General Petraeus is equivalent to "our troup". Does this kind of logic sound familiar to you: "you are attacked our Party Secretary = you are attacking our Party = you are attacking our socialist country, therefore you are an anti-revolutionary, ought to be sent to the labor camp".

If anyone or any organization does not agree with the opinion of MoveOn.org, they can run any ad they want. But now, as a government branch, Congress condemned the ad by an organization, it blatantly violated the First Amendment - freedom of speech. As citizens, we may not agree with the ad by MoveOn.org, we shall defend their right to express their opinion. It is OUR right.

Posted by: uqxw | September 28, 2007 11:02 PM | Report abuse

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