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Republicans Denounce 'Witch Hunt' of CIA Interrogators

By Paul Kane
Leading Republicans denounced Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr.'s decision to appoint a prosecutor to investigate alleged abuses of roughly a dozen detainees under a Bush-era CIA policy, as top Democrats expressed mixed views on Monday's actions by the Obama administration and some worried that the Justice Department probe would not go far enough.

Holder's appointment of John H. Durham, a career prosecutor, will hinder future intelligence gathering in the fight against terrorists, Congressional Republicans argued. "We are witnessing the beginning of a witch hunt that will decimate both the morale and effectiveness of those who have dedicated their lives to protecting our nation," Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.), the head of a conservative caucus in the House, said Tuesday in a statement.

Price's words echoed the sentiments of other senior Senate Republicans, eight of whom wrote a letter of protest to Holder Monday evening. "We fear that the true cost of this endeavor will ultimately be borne by the American people, who rely on the intelligence community, operating without distraction, to protect them from the many threats, known and unknown, that our country faces in this post-9/11 world," the group wrote.

Senators signing the letter included Sens. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz), the No. 2 Republican leader; Christopher "Kit" Bond (Mo.), the ranking Republican on the Intelligence Committee; and Jeff Sessions (Ala.), the ranking Republican on the Judiciary Committee.

Democrats largely applauded Holder's decision, but some urged that the probe extend beyond the actions of the interrogators who were accused in the newly released 2004 report of going beyond the Bush administration's guidelines when questioning detainees. "The abuses that were officially sanctioned amounted to torture and those at the very top who authorized, ordered or sought to provide legal cover for them should be held accountable," Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wisc.), a senior member of the intelligence and judiciary committees, said Monday in a statement.

And Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.), chairman of the Judiciary Committee, cited the release of the CIA's inspector general report on the treatment of detainees -- which Holder used, in part, to make his decision to appoint Durham -- in his renewed call for a "Commission of Inquiry", an independent review of all Bush-era policies related to its "war on terror."

"Who justified these policies? What was the role of the Bush White House? How can we make sure it never happens again?" Leahy said in his statement.

Leahy's commission proposal has divided Democrats, with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) endorsing the approach and Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) opposing it. President Obama rejected the call for such a commission in the spring, saying he wanted his administration to "look forward" and not spend time in a nasty partisan squabble about the previous administration's actions.

By Web Politics Editor  |  August 25, 2009; 3:16 PM ET
Categories:  Dem. Leaders , GOP Leaders  
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Next: Town Hall Talk: McCain Challenges Obama, Again

Comments

If the tables were turned and the Democrats had done this, the Republicans would have already begun prosecuting.

This is not a witch hunt, it's a hunt for those who tortured and gave permission to torture.

Posted by: vigor | August 25, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Look at the Republicans being soft on CRIME!

This is not political, this is justice.

Posted by: anarcho-liberal-tarian | August 25, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

The Republicants can't stand that treaties and laws were broken. They can't stand that it wasn't Democrats involved. They can't stand that it's Democrats pushing for an investigation. They can't stand being made to look like the liars, hypocrits and traitors that they are.

Posted by: COLEBRACKETT | August 25, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

"those at the very top who authorized, ordered or sought to provide legal cover for them should be held accountable,"

Stop calling it "harsh interrogation" or enhanced interrogation". It's torture. It's defined as torture by every organization and tribunal (including the US) except the Bush White House. Torturing Prisoners is against everything this country stands for and those extremist right-wing neo-con evangelical whackos who support it are a disgrace.

Posted by: thebobbob | August 25, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Threatening a person, any person, with a power drill in the face is not patriotic. It is not American. It is terrorism. And the perpetrators deserve to be punished.

Posted by: dennisjwallcom | August 25, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

If there's no crime what's the problem? bush said, we don't torture, if bush/cheney administration is responsible for torture, then investigate and prosecute.

Posted by: jama452 | August 25, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Illegal means illegal. The only reason why the GOP would want to protect criminals is because they ARE the criminals.

Perhaps they're afraid that their complacency to torture will come back to haunt them.


Posted by: lindalovejones | August 25, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Once again, the party or torture, unnecessary war, and lies comes to its own rescue. The Republicans created this monster and now they don't want to see it investigated or brought down.

Posted by: ElectricBill | August 25, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DCer1 | August 25, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Do one think that just maybe there is going to be some accountability?
Now, let us take a look at Bill Clinton ( maybe?).

Posted by: peterroach | August 25, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

OBAMA DECLARES WAR ON CIA AND NATIONAL SECURITY

Obama just doesn’t get it–alQaeda members wake up every morning PRAYING they will get to be martyred by nuking the Great Satan. Dots are denied as politically incorrect, forget about connecting the dots.

Secreatry Napolitano at Homeland Security is a third rate political hack pursuing a political agenda by other means, which is fine, except she has opened ethnic cleansing on ALL operational intel persons of competence.

The ONE job of any President-the SINGLE task Americans can NOT do for themselves, is protection of the homeland.

Obama can and has fouled up the economy and we will survive.

But National Security, particularly nuclear security, is for KEEPS. And here, the Obama Administration is a tribute to mindless mediocrity.

Obama has declared war on the CIA, and America has already LOST.


Posted by: JaxMax | August 25, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Wow. The republicans have been smearing health care reform for weeks but get upset when a legitimate probe is launched on illegal interrogation methods. The reps set a precedent with their holier than thou impeachment of Clinton, now they have to accept the consequences.

Posted by: rias2500 | August 25, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Where was Tom Price and the rest of the Republicans when Bush and Chaney leaked information about Valerie Wilson being an undercover CIA agent? Double standard as usual for the GOP.

Posted by: smirk | August 25, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Poor Republicans. They sound just too silly.

Witch Hunt when there is lot of evidence to prosecute?

How about their "WITCH HUNT" against President Obama as a person and everything he needs to do to fix the mess these criminal clowns left behind?

Just shut up you brainless idiots

Posted by: mackiejw | August 25, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Obviously Republicans didn't consider the Whitewater investigation of President Bill Clinton a political witch hunt, which it most certainly was. After spending 60 million dollars they could find absolutely nothing to implicate the Clintons on the Whitewater land deal. They successfully spent 60 million dollars to catch Bill Clinton in one of his sexual adventures.
60 Million dollar witch hunt on a bl*w job! Good work guys!

Posted by: logcabin1836 | August 25, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

psssssssst.......... has anyone told Obama that its HIS CIA

and that he is shooting himself in the head figuratively???????

Posted by: JaxMax | August 25, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Look at the Republicans being soft on CRIME!

This is not political, this is justice.

Posted by: anarcho-liberal-tarian | August 25, 2009 3:33 PM |

_________________________________

Thank you, ALT for making me smile today. "Soft on crime". I only wish I would have thought of that.


I would add in response to: Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.) "We are witnessing the beginning of a witch hunt that will decimate both the morale and effectiveness of those who have dedicated their lives to protecting our nation"

What kind of morale did they have when Pakistan and India built nuclear devices without the CIA having a clue? What kind of effectiveness and morale did they have when the Whitehouse was outing them for political purposes? What kind of morale and effectiveness did they have when the CIA had cornered bin laden at Tora Bora and Rumsfeld refused to provide troops for fear the CIA would get credit for killing him?
The Republicans care about the morale and effectiveness of the intelligence community for exactly the amount of time it is politically expedient and not for one second longer.


Posted by: lostinthemiddle | August 25, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

It's a shame the the Permanent Republican Majority turned out to be less than permanent...but the fact is, there is a Democrat in the White House and Democratic majorities in both the House and Senate.

So...your objections are duly noted.

Posted by: ana1ana2 | August 25, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

If the GOP does not want the CIA operatives tortured, no problem. Let's just have Bush, Cheney, Yao, Addington et al, stand up and take responsibility for the actions they authorized. In my opinion blaming the Justice Department for investigating this is like blaming the police department for crime. I too am angry that the sorid details will be exposed, especially at such a precarious time for this country, but my anger is directed at those who broke the law, not those that enforce it.

Posted by: jl_shaver | August 25, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans just don't want anyone to dig too far. They'll keep trying to bank on fears to convince everyone this was necessary even though studies show torture isn't an effective aid in most investigations.

Posted by: sarahabc | August 25, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Well, I hope the GOP is at least being ideologically pure here: if they're going to be pro-torture, then they should also be anti post-torture, government provided health care.

Posted by: bikes-everywhere | August 25, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

The only ones in favor of this investigation are islamists and democrats....

Obama needs a distracting issue in the news (reality being so tough on him) to cover his overall ineptitude, so tossing the CIA to the left is an easy, red-meat, decision....lauded by the DailyKos and their ilk....who will now forgive him for failing to socialize medicine.

The Church Committee of the 1970's will have a more progressive analogy shortly......

Posted by: georgedixon1 | August 25, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Sorry first line should read If the GOP does not want the CIA operatives prosecuted...

Posted by: jl_shaver | August 25, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

to parade this circus PUBLICLY

in time of WAR with AlQaeda

is..........

Posted by: JaxMax | August 25, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

There is a reason Republicans were voted out of office. The rest of us would like our country to stand for something except death and violence.

Posted by: SarahBB | August 25, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Threatening to kill the children and rape the wife of a terrorist captive is not the kind of traditional family values I can believe in.

Posted by: john7 | August 25, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans didn't want an investigation in the 1970's over the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII. They're using the same argument now as they did then....

Posted by: logcabin1836 | August 25, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Just can't wait till we get rid of all those CIA criminals that were trying to protect our country so that the terrorists can take over. Have we lost our minds?

Posted by: sportsfan2 | August 25, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"We're going to kill your children"....Jefferson, Washington, and Madison would be so proud of all these Republican apologists for this disgraceful behavior under Bush/Cheney.

Posted by: logcabin1836 | August 25, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

LEAVE THE CIA ALONE! These people are at the vanguard of safeguarding the freedom which all
American citizens enjoy, yet take for granted. The CIA, and our entire intelligence community, may have to get in the mud to fight terrorists and enemies of this country. Are you prepared to say that you would have the courage to do the same?

Posted by: jfregus | August 25, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Look at the Republicans being soft on CRIME!

This is not political, this is justice.

Posted by: anarcho-liberal-tarian | August 25, 2009 3:33 PM |

_________________________________

Thank you, ALT for making me smile today. "Soft on crime". I only wish I would have thought of that.


I would add in response to: Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.) "We are witnessing the beginning of a witch hunt that will decimate both the morale and effectiveness of those who have dedicated their lives to protecting our nation"

What kind of morale did they have when Pakistan and India built nuclear devices without the CIA having a clue? What kind of effectiveness and morale did they have when the Whitehouse was outing them for political purposes? What kind of morale and effectiveness did they have when the CIA had cornered bin laden at Tora Bora and Rumsfeld refused to provide troops for fear the CIA would get credit for killing him?
The Republicans care about the morale and effectiveness of the intelligence community for exactly the amount of time it is politically expedient and not for one second longer.

Posted by: lostinthemiddle | August 25, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

If Holder wanted to go on a witch hunt he wouldn't have to look past the republican side of the aisle. There is nothing lower and more contemptible on this planet then a Republican. All they care about is smearing the Democrats, lying about everything and never taking responsibility for anything. They are truly vile little people and there isn't a person who should care what these trolls think.

Their latest argument goes like this: "We broke the law and a 200 year old custom in the US not to torture people. We did it anyway and now we shouldn't be held accountable for our actions. See those nasty D's are ruining America again and they are aided by the liberal press who hates us. Besides, the Democrats made us break the law. If we're held accountable for these actions America will be blown to pieces by some future undetermined threat." Only a brain dead Republican would buy this lack of logic.

Face it, they are just mean nasty, vile, little people who can't tell the truth and have zero moral authority to tell a pigeon how to live.

Posted by: boblund1 | August 25, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Who cares what the GOP says anymore. They are irrelevant.

Posted by: jckdoors | August 25, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Republicans are really good at whining, taking umbrage at government abuses - they are the best hands down. Repugs can indict a ham sandwich. Just recall Bill Clinton's case - Repugs started hounding him with Whitewater, a 20some year old land deal, then Hilary's IRS return, and after a couple of months, it ended with Lewinsky. The Repubs are masters at concocting insult where there is none, and also masters at spinning a wrongdoing into something benign. Torturing prisoners was always a crime in our books, but when Bush did it; torturing detainees was suddenly ok because the detainees were not really human beings but Muslims who want to kill us; as if our other enemies did not want to kill us.

Posted by: mstratas | August 25, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Republicans are afraid of where truth and accountability will lead. Of course this makes everyone suspicious that the abuses took place with a Bush White House wink and nod or even explicit orders. It is time for justice to prevail and deter future administration from abusing executive authority.

Posted by: Viewpoint2 | August 25, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Of course, people should be held accountable for their actions. However, from a strictly political point of view, it's probably not the best precedent to initiate an open-ended investigation of the previous administration. That will inevitably lead to an investigation by the next Republican Justice Dept. of the Obama administration and so on, wasting untold time and $ on partisan payback.

Posted by: ducks11 | August 25, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

The vitriol and vindicative vengeance reflects the liberals' literal obsession and fixation with Bush -- in 2009, 5 years after a time of a supposed allegation already countered by multiple officials at a time with a new President floundering under his liberal policies in a town where the media, the White House, Senate, and House are all owned by the Democrats, all the left can do is continue on their radicalized and militant rants about the Bush Administration.

Democrats own every vestige of power and are still failing -- the public and particularly independents have already shunned their 'annointed' king and his liberal policies - the liberals are frustrated and even more angry.

Ah, let us do what we know best, hate and call for the lynching of all things Bush, its a good way to distract from all our liberal failures, even when all indicators at one time were pointing to a 'liberal' revolution.

Dream on whiny little liberals, within six months OB is off cloud 9, most have turned against him, conservative Democrats and Independents, not the GOP has stymied the liberal agenda, and all that look like it was meant to be has floundered.

So do what you do best: cry, scream, and pout, swear the 'others' i.e. anyone right of you is evil, a neo-con, a right-wing nut job, or whatever label you use when you lose an intellectual argument, persecute anything related to Bush - try now, go on, it will compensate for the obvious national rejection of your agenda and satiate your need for vengeance and compensation for self-made failure; and of course it will only reinforce what the nation knows you to be, hot air spewing entitled hypocrites, spineless with no conviction but limitless hatred and contempt for all that is good and against you.

Posted by: vipermd | August 25, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

The greatness of our democracy and our nation is defined by our ability to maintain honor in all our endeavors, no matter what the threat.....threatening to kill someone's children has no honor. Quite the contrary. We are a nation defined by laws, if these CIA operatives broke the law, then they did so at their peril.

Posted by: logcabin1836 | August 25, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Obviously Republicans didn't consider the Whitewater investigation of President Bill Clinton a political witch hunt, which it most certainly was. After spending 60 million dollars they could find absolutely nothing to implicate the Clintons on the Whitewater land deal. They successfully spent 60 million dollars to catch Bill Clinton in one of his sexual adventures.
60 Million dollar witch hunt on a bl*w job! Good work guys!

Posted by: logcabin1836 | August 25, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Root out the war criminals, every last one, regardless their level of responsibility. If we fail to do so, we demoralize everyone who resisted this latest dark chapter in the CIA’s history, and leave the unscrupulous in place, climbing the career ladder, for the next time an unprincipled Administration calls out for henchmen to do its bidding.

Posted by: washpost29 | August 25, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Fine. We'll meet the GOP demands and drop the prosecution, and the conservative "do the crime, do the time" mentality. We can just render all the suspected miscreants to, say, Egypt, for some gentle persuasion. And then have them vanish from the face of the Earth.

Morale at the CIA will be fine because no one there will have any idea what happened.

Do the crime, do the time. Right, wing nuts?

"We were protecting the Workers' Paradise from the enemies of the Revolution." Would that excuse fly in Palin-land?

Funny how the same people who want unlimited firearm ownership to "protect us from a tyrannical gov't" just love that same gov't torturing people.

Pathetic.

Posted by: Garak | August 25, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

This decision will haunt Obama for years to come. 2010 and 2012 are going to be brutal elections for the Dems!

Obama is putting us all in danger. He and Holder both said they wouldn't prosecute - but now they are giving in to the RADICAL COMMUNIST LEFT, and reversing themselves. Obama is now prosecuting people who saved American lives.

KSM got threatened with a drill? And his family got threatened? BOO-HOO! My real tears are for the 3000 innocent Americans he killed on 9/11.

Posted by: mpaterso | August 25, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Totally politically motivated. This is yet another attempt to re-galvanize the Obama leftist nut jobs. Or is it re-re-re-galvanize this dying movement?

Posted by: hz9604 | August 25, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Let's follow Tom Price's recommendations and stop the witch hunt. We're not looking for witches. We're looking for those who gave the orders and set the policies:

Bush
Cheney
Rumsfeld
Yoo
Addington
et. al.

It's long past time for a Special Prosecutor to declare these people Persons of Interest and require them to hand over their passports. Even better, have an extraordinary rendition of all of them. I hear that Spanish prosecutors have large cojones when it comes to prosecuting high government officials for crimes against humanity.

Posted by: sasquatchbigfoot | August 25, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Why the heck should it bother anyone that terrorists are knocked around a little bit? The liberals feel bad because terrorists like KSM were waterboarded? Gee, why don't we just put them up in the Hilton instead of Gitmo?

Well, no surprise that the Obama Administration is soft on national security. We should all fear for our saftey.

Damn liberals.

Posted by: fxfemail | August 25, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Me thinks thou Republicans dost protest too much.

Posted by: naturalkirk | August 25, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Scary just how similar the fringe left and Islamic terrorists seem to be:

1) Both have a complete and indoctrinated belief in being victims of the US and use that 'humiliation' to justify any means necessary to attack the 'great satan.'
2) Because of their indoctrination and self-righteousness, they both are completely deaf to others and ignore, violently at times, any attempts whatsoever at dissent or reason.
3) Any even feeble attempt to shine light on their errant ways is met with the most violent and aggressive accusations of bias and subsequent name calling : for the terrorists, Islamophobic, anti-Islam etc, for the fringe left, racism, greedy, xenophobic and the like.
4) Both are completely and totally incapable of seeing the prolific failures of themselves, but happily blame all problems on the US itself.

It makes sense, it explains the left's ability to 'understand' why so many 'hate us' and why 'we bring terrorist attacks upon ourselves;' it explains why so many in the left believe 9/11 was inside job, "hey those guys can't be 'that bad,' but America, it knows no depths...'

The self-loathing, entitled, taking for granted all the prosperity, opportunities, stablility, and security of the US, whiny, and hypocritical left ultimately always loses, but not after they have tried to damn each and every person who disagrees with them and the very nation which has given them everything.

Posted by: vipermd | August 25, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

CIA SNIPE HUNT: Distraction from the Economic tsunami known as ... The DEMOCRAT Congress

1) ObamaCare - "Reform" for Ambulance Chasers and Illegals - Donations and votes

2) "Cap & Trade" - $2 TRILLION energy tax

3) "Stimulus Plan" - boat dock to Pelosi's husband, $30 Billion in TARP assets to Feinstein's husband - CBRE, TARP assets to Waters Bank ... Murtha just steal as usual

4) "Industrial Policy" - give GM to the loafbags at the UAW that wiped out GM.

- BURNED out, flashbacking, 60's Vietnam protester hippies actually in charge of legislation.... instead of Kerry throwing medals, voters should throwout Kerry.

Posted by: ayrescayo | August 25, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Is anyone surprised that the party who approved of illegal torture is now trying to protect the criminals? So what they disapprove? They are the minority because they let their Republican president break the law and refused to make him accountable. That and crashing our economy got them where they are. Let'em whine.

We need a thorough investigation and prosecution of everyone who authorized and wrote the legal opinions that drug America into the dirt.

Posted by: fishingriver | August 25, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

After the mess Bush and Cheney left the White House in at the end of their term, it is so amazing how they, and the Republican Party, feel so righteous coming after the Obama administration for looking into their questionable activities especially concerning the war in Iraq and the prisoner situation at Guantanamo. Those two gentlemen, with their wild west mentalities, brought the United States government and it's foreign policies down to the lowest point of national pride and international standing in the world of nations, since the founding fathers finished signing their names to the finished and accomplished United States Constitution. Anymore of their style of governing, and I don't think that this country will survive it.

Posted by: allset707 | August 25, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Lock there butts up!!!!

Posted by: shamken | August 25, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

They know alot about witchhunting and Valerie Plame but they don't know much about taking the blame for an unprovoked attack on the unarmed country of Iraq, or taking the gloves of civilization off publicly before the entire world and admiring the dark side., kind of like asbotaging the '68 Paris Peace talks to get elected and ruining Pres. Johnson's attempts to end the war before leaving office.

Posted by: Wildthing1 | August 25, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

"Why the heck should it bother anyone that terrorists are knocked around a little bit?"

Because until they have a fair trial they are considered innocent. The blatant ignorance of Bush apologists like you, who will never live down voting for him twice, and many of you will do time because of this very investigation, have paved the way for places like Guantanamo where many innocent people are tortured to death. Anyone who supports Guantanamo deserves to be accidentally sent there and let's see them prove they don't belong there. You Communist.

Posted by: naturalkirk | August 25, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

The decision to go after CIA officers is just plain wrong - period. However, it is absurd for the Republicans to pretend that they are the defenders of America's intelligence personnel. This is the political party that installed that hack, Porter Goss, as CIA director, whose aim when he was in Congress was to politicize the Agency. This is the same political party whose VP visited the Agency several times to be sure they got their reports on Iraq "right." And then there's that fearless Republican leader, George W. Bush, who didn't hesitate to blame the CIA when his little war in Iraq went bad.

Posted by: Bob22003 | August 25, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

To a Democrat, a terrorist is just another soon-to-be friend on Facebook.

Posted by: luca_20009 | August 25, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

If the Justice Department ONLY investigates those who carried out torture, then there will be little true justice done. It is not appropriate to prosecute the foot soldiers who actually did the deeds; they were made to believe that the "Harsh Interrogation Techniques" had been approved precisely because they were not "Torture". The real criminal act was to spread that lie down the chain of command to them.

I am not saying that "just following orders" is an excuse anyone can use, but some people — the people at the bottom who were actually sent out to subject prisoners to abuse (within limits prescribed by higher authorities) — do deserve to be considered as dupes rather than criminals. Even at Nuremburg it was recognized that a private standing in a firing squad was in no position to know whether or not his soon-to-be-victim had actually been given a fair trial and that the sentence he was being ordered to carry out was just. But the officers in charge? As you go up the chain of command you will eventually come to the people who did know and who could have taken action to prevent abuses from taking place.

My fear is that this investigation will deliberately limit itself to those individuals with the least real responsibility for creating an inhumane policy, while the John Yoos of the world, safely ensconced now in university halls, will face no legal consequences.

Posted by: nfarrar | August 25, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

the disagreement here is that republicans believe by uttering the phrase "post 9/11 world" they can suspend the Constitution and bestow powers upon the president that he does not legally hold. Most of them aren't smart enough to realize that breaking the law to catch law breakers makes them the same. I also love their embracing of the concept that we have to give up our freedoms and our way of life in order to protect those things. They're not smart enough to get it done within the boudaries of the law of the land. Bottom line, typical repuglicon response. It's all they ever have, bumper sticker slogans. I just love the way they respond to mountains of evidence with a cliche, like that renders null everything they are opposed to. what a pathetic, out of touch group of people.

Posted by: red2million | August 25, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Rep. Tom Price (R) Georgia: "...operating without distraction..."

How is it possible for an American to say these words? How is it remotely possible that that American is a Congressional Representative?

No more Republicans, ever.

Posted by: abqcleve | August 25, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

"vindicative vengeance"
Posted by: vipermd

rofl

Posted by: lostinthemiddle | August 25, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

What happened to Republicans' respect for the rule of law? Torture is explicitly a federal crime punishable by up to 20 years' imprisonment, under Title 18, part I Chapter 113 § 2340A of the U.S. Code. So long as the torturer is a U.S. national, the offense doesn't have to occur on U.S. soil, so CIA operatives who tortured captives in offshore jails are legally liable. Additionally, torturing captives, whether they are uniformed combatants or not, is a violation of article 3 of the 3rd and 4th Geneva Conventions, and also is a violation of the UN Convention Against Torture. Treaties to which the U.S. is a signatory have the same force as U.S. law.

Posted by: pjkiger1 | August 25, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Moron wrote: "Totally politically motivated".

I'm a Libertarian and I want to see anyone who authorized torture to spend their life in prison. While they are at it, they should lock up anyone anti-American enough to support torture.

Posted by: naturalkirk | August 25, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

This charade is worse than a witch hunt . . . it's a distraction to allow Obama to avoid some to the heat generated by his socialist healthcare manifesto. In the more common vernacular; it's a cheap political stunt to cover his rear.

Posted by: rplat | August 25, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

"To a Democrat, a terrorist is just another soon-to-be friend on Facebook.
"

What a good little sheep you are, practicing your false left-right paradigm. Evil Democrats. Saintly Republicans. They are all puppets to the Federal Reserve, who just spent $24.3 Trillion of your children's dollars while you are whining about Democrats and buying into every ounce of propaganda your mercury-laden brain was ever exposed to on Fox and CNN. So pop another prozac, send another text message and hit the drive-thru in your SUVs, you fat slobs.

Posted by: naturalkirk | August 25, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Pictures don't lie. Republcans do...every day. And they all learned how from there master, Sir dipshi# Bush and his sidekick Dick StrangeCheney. We got the goods. Republicans have done nothing since they lost the election(and they didn't do anything good when they were in power either) but lie, and put on one big PHONY OUTRAGE AFTER ANOTHER. Republicans are such a joke, we should have a sitcom about them. Preferably on HBO because then we can hear Dick FrankenCheney speak uncensered. Lets get this show on the road and get some of the corrupt republicans in jail pronto.

Posted by: kubrickstan | August 25, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Gee, I thought the little purple lipped tele-evangelist Obama wanted to "look ahead". Every time I turn around he's making Bush the president again and beating him up. Earth to Obama: you're the prez now, you imbecile.

Posted by: birvin9999 | August 25, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

"Threatening a person, any person, with a power drill in the face is not patriotic. It is not American. It is terrorism. And the perpetrators deserve to be punished.
Posted by: dennisjwallcom | August 25, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse"


======================================
======================================

Hogwash! How do think those people in the Towers felt when they first realized they were falling hundreds of feet to their deaths. Who cares if they threatened some terrorist with a "drill". Wake up and realize this is a brutal world and its problems can't all be solved with "please and thank you".

Posted by: rplat | August 25, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

This charade is worse than a witch hunt . . . it's a distraction to allow Obama to avoid some to the heat generated by his socialist healthcare manifesto. In the more common vernacular; it's a cheap political stunt to cover his rear.

Posted by: rplat | August 25, 2009 4:26 PM |
____________________

Thanks for that expert analysis. It must be good, you used the words manifesto and vernacular. Speaking of vernacular, do you even know what a manifesto is?

Posted by: lostinthemiddle | August 25, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

It's time to go after the real criminals.

The International War Criminals.

John Yoo, Scooter Libby, Dick Cheney, and so on.

Arrest them and extradite them for trials at the Hague, per our signatory status with more than 9 international treaties, which our Constitution requires us to do.

ACTION. Not words.

Hint: There is no statute of limitations for War Crimes. None.

Posted by: WillSeattle | August 25, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Either we're a country ruled by laws or we aren't. You can't have it both ways. This is not a witch hunt, this is not about partisanship. Heck, Obama has been avoiding this! This is about holding people accountable, people who were afforded the public trust and were paid by us who broke the law in our name. That cannot be taken lightly.

Posted by: mtnmanvt | August 25, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Pick the so-designated terrorists off the street and torture them based on vague inquisitional imaginations. Why should not we be totally disgusted to be part of this teeteringly civilized country, ever far removed from what our Great Founders sought to establish? They would most certainly NOT APPROVE!

Posted by: myhonestopinion | August 25, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Since when was pursuing justice a "witchhunt"??? Only when it involves the Bush league that broke laws and bent the constitution at their whim. Obama didn't foul up the economy Jaxmax the world and every intelligent republican out there (yes, there are still a few of us) knows even if you never figure it out it was the Bush administration that drove our economy, environment, and just about every other civilized measure of our society into the ground like pile drivers. I'm embarrassed so many republicans are putting the lie to the Obama Healthcare plan (which I have actually read line for line). Half of my own family is without health care at all. Even those on medicare can't access it because of the supplemental insurance required. When they are saddled with charges far higher than any insurance company pays, they are forced to negotiate their bills down (just like big insurance but without the power those companies wield) sometimes they succeed, often they don't and the result is the majority of their paychecks go to pay off what should have been simple, affordable procedures. Don't the idiots out there against this plan realize we already HAVE public healthcare with the millions who show up at local emergency rooms without a penny to their name, because they have no choice. There is an intelligent solution to this problem and I personally thank Mister Obama for attempting to find it. God, knows Bush didn't even try. We are all Americans and in good conscience the better minds need to come together on this issue. The rest of you sign toting idiots and politicians who would spread completely baseless lies about euthenasia and socialism (yeah, that would be you Sara Failin) and follow the creed of Hitler's Goebbels who infamously proclaimed, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to belierve it. The lie can be maintained. It thus becomes vitally important for the state to use all it's powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie and thus by extension the truth is the greatest enemy of the state." The rich stay rich because they count on ignorant fools like the ones who pack anti health care rallies to fall for those lies. You should all be proud you've made Rush Limbaugh a rich man, and help build the highest and ugliest walls between family, neighbors, co-workers and strangers.
In abandoning fellow Americans too poor to afford health care for themselves, thier children and their grandparents you have abandoned your morals and every shred of righteousness you falsely profess every Sunday at church. Shame on all of you. But to the rest, we have work to do to rebuild our economy and the environment Bush and every big corporation who bought him and Cheney out worked so hard to destroy.

Posted by: Colorado12 | August 25, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

it would be nice for the current admistration to put as much "political" enegy into sovling the crises: war 1, war 2, economy, health care, more old people, expensive coilleges, etc, rather than wastiing time and more money going after govt employees.

and it amazes me how the dem leaders can stand together on this silly issue when they stand separate on the above list.

remember: all politicans are just one small step from prison!

Posted by: jrzshor | August 25, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Oops .. loony Harry is already behind in the Nevada Polls .. "quick Harry, pretend like you're not a nut"

-Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) opposing it

Gee Mildred - they were pretending that they were going to do more invasive techniques - BUT DIDN'T - now future terrorist know this and will laugh

... waterboarding is applied to US Navy pilots in training.

Posted by: ayrescayo | August 25, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for that expert analysis. It must be good, you used the words manifesto and vernacular. Speaking of vernacular, do you even know what a manifesto is?

Posted by: lostinthemiddle | August 25, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

======================================++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Look smart ass, if you want to argue substance you're in the right place but if not, you can take that ignorant condescending crap and put it where the sun doesn't shine.

Posted by: rplat | August 25, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

KSM pulled off the cold-blooded murder of 3000 innocent Americans. Now, really, without passion or politics, does any reasonable person believe that in pursuit of the objective of preventing another such attack, pouring water on him or even threatening to kill his children amounts to "torture"?

If you answer "yes" then you need to try and understand that your own blind ideological fervor, quite divorced from the real world in which we live, could lead to the death or enslavement of our own children.

Love to all.

Salt

Posted by: barryd53 | August 25, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Witches never like witch hunts.

Posted by: turkerm | August 25, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Too funny. I agree, if the tables were turned, the GOP would have blood dripping from their fangs - such hypocrites.

What the CIA operatives did is illegal and immoral, and they, and everyone up the food chain who ordered or approved of their actions must be accountable to the American people. Everyone. They are ALL subject to the law.

Posted by: momj47 | August 25, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Reuters is reporting that two memo's Cheney had put forth as "proof" of his assertions were released Monday. Anybody got links ?

Posted by: gannon_dick | August 25, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Republicans need to butt out.


The Obama regime can destroy themselves without outside help.

Posted by: Tupac_Goldstein | August 25, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Look...this is ridiculous. Can we not look forward instead of backwards. I do not like this "witch hunt". Also, to be perfectly candid, would islamist radicals provide the same freedoms or interogations to us??. NO!! hello guys these are radicals and treat them as such.

I normally comment only on sports pages but listening to these partisan posts on BOTH sides makes me sick.

Who cares about some radical muslim who wants to kill americans? Shouldn't he reap what he sows? Or should we be nice and say..hey guy...what did you do wrong? F that...beat his a$$ up.

Oh yeah...and I am a democrat. Just don't agree with Repubs most time and democrats..some of the time.

CIA was perfectly correct in their actions. It saved lives and will continue to save lives.

P.S. Just cause we make a big stir about this doesnt mean the CIA won't continue to do it. Don't forget...they are WAY smarter then US average joes.

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

LOL. Someone said the Democrats couldn't have an intelligent argument with a Republican? Well, for once a Republican finally got something right. Earth to Republicans: You can't have an intelligent argument unless you have some intelligence and I'm sorry to say I have yet to meet the Republican who isn't brain dead. Newsflash, you lost the election and lost it bad. You have earned your status as an inconsequential party so just sit back and grit your teeth like we did when we had to endure the lunacy of Bush/Cheney. You may firmly believe Obama isn't a citizen, he's a Muslim, a Terrorist, a Nazi, a Socialist who wants to destroy America and you can go around spewing this crap all you want. As you do this the rest of us just get to sit back and laugh at you. We don't hate you. We pity you. We sincerely feel sorry for people who don't have the intelligence to come in out of the rain. There's a reason Sara Palin is your poster child. She's 3 IQ points short of the moose she hunts.

I have finally come to the conclusion there is no way to have an intelligent conversation with a wingnut. Why try? All that ever comes out of these attempts is one bold face lie after another by the vile little people we call republicans. Lincoln has to be rolling over in this grave to see how low the Republican party has sunk.

Posted by: boblund1 | August 25, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Unlike the witch hunts of centuries past, this time, there really are witches who authorized torture and broke the law in doing so. I was wondering if Eric Holder was really going to do his job of making sure that the rule of law prevails. It looks like that may happen. I personally would like to know the names of the witches and the available evidence that they did their evil deeds, and see justice done.

Posted by: for_lack_of_a_better_thought | August 25, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

The Repiglicans last stand--

an all-out no-holds-barred defense of torture.


Hmm, sounds like a fitting end to the Confederacy.

Posted by: lichtme | August 25, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Question if one of these CIA guys uncovered and foiled a plot to kill hundreds of Americans.. but had to cross the line to do it.. how many years should he get??? Liberals want to punish men who's only goal was to protect the American people. Nice way of saying thanks huh?

Posted by: sovine08 | August 25, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

well, it'll get off public option and death panels!

Posted by: milfordone | August 25, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Republicans would rather investigate more important matters like sexual misconduct. Funny how the "C" street gang gets off free. Ensing is still a Senator and Sanford is still Governor. While using their offices to consort with women other than their wives. Sanford even left the country and misled the state and the country, leaving the state of S.C. rudderless. GO FIGURE?!

Posted by: minco_007 | August 25, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

psssssssst.......... has anyone told Obama that its HIS CIA

and that he is shooting himself in the head figuratively???????

Posted by: JaxMax |
------------------------
pssssst..has anyone ever told you that no one is above the law in this country? Especially somebody who does horrendous things in the name of protecting Liberty and Freedom?

And before you take this time to exhibit your appalling lack of intelligence - know that it was not Obama's CIA AT the time the crimes were committed.

Posted by: Pillai | August 25, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Republicans will have a chance to get even in 2012 ...............obama/holder will be gone.....

Posted by: UpAndOver | August 25, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Republicans will have a chance to get even in 2012 ...............obama/holder will be gone.....

Posted by: UpAndOver | August 25, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Oh, I'm sorry. Mr. Holder does not need an investigation.

The Lefists who never miss an opportunity to discredit America have already decided that the CIA interrogators are guilty of great crimes, even though they had findings from the DOJ that tortuously (pun intended) defined the limits and parameters of interrogations.Hence, what they did was legal.

Now, years later, self-righteous players who were never involved wrap themselves in the flag and want to punish the very same heroic operatives who have kept us safe since 2001 and, in the process, chill any future interrogation of bloodthirsty savges who want to cut off your head.

Incredible.

Love to all.

Posted by: barryd53 | August 25, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

It's amazing that the Republicans are calling law enforcement a witch hunt. They must have gone soft on crime or hard on the pain killers that they seem to enjoy after obtaining without a prescription.

What was the Newt & Cos. impeachment of former President Clinton? What was Whitewater? It seems like the vultures of neo-conservative, right wing evangelical hypocricy have come home to roost and will soon be feasting on the bloated and decayed carcass of the now deceased GOP.

Posted by: bkllal6020 | August 25, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Notice that Rice, Yoo, Powell, Ashcroft, president cheney and bush jr are all real quiet?
Bet'cha they are all looking for lawyers who can read and write.

Posted by: KBlit | August 25, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

These are the new Nattering Nabobs of Negativity.

Posted by: donnolo | August 25, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Most of the so-called "torture" took place in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 - and the "torture" saved innocent American lives.

It was a "ticking bomb" scenario, the country had just been attacked, 3000 people dead, no idea what was coming next...hell, Nancy Pelosi herself asked the CIA what MORE they could do to stop further attacks, when she was informed of waterboarding way back at the beginning.

Now - the shoe is on the Dem's foot. They intend to kick the GOP and their "criminal" institutions, especially the hated CIA.

I say - beyond the immediate danger this investigation places ALL of us in (imagine how non-aggressive CIA operatives will be now?) - this investigation will end up prosecuting some line-level CIA operative who will quickly become a national hero to the Right, and probably to most of blue-collar America. This will happen right around election-time 2010 - with bad results for the Dems. Not unlike 1998 for the GOP when they were chasing Clinton.

The back and forth criminal investigations of previous administrations has got to stop! We are at war. We are in a deep recession. Please stop this insanity!

Posted by: mpaterso | August 25, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Unless one of these CIA operatives had oral sex with a consenting adult, I can see no possible excuse for an investigation.

Posted by: redlineblue | August 25, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

"Leading Republicans" can just . . . shut up. Arguably, their acquiescence during the previous administration led to detainee abuse and death and has led to a lessening of our overall security.

Posted by: palmtree2001 | August 25, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

....you can take that ignorant condescending crap and put it where the sun doesn't shine.

Posted by: rplat

-------------------------------------------
Okay.

Bend over.

Posted by: sasquatchbigfoot | August 25, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Hey Senator Leahy... you were my choice for President or Vice-President as you (well maybe that other Illinois Senator) were the leading light on the Darkside. AND you got Cheney's goat... Anywaze... fight the good fight brother, we are behind you 100% !

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 25, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

What are they going to do stop cooperating with the Democrats on Policy Decisions and votes? Their doing that now. Here come the paybacks fellas. I'm sick of this talk of bipartisonship. Never was any never will be. Let's do the right thing. These Republican scumbags deserve what they get. Let's stop playing games.

Posted by: jerseydevil | August 25, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

The CIA saves lives. It's an imperfect system that will NEVER be perfect.

If they have to utilize methods that "toe the line" on ONLY radicalized individuals, SO BE IT.

The more we bring down the institution of the CIA, we weaken OUR country.

YES, they should be accountable, but NOT in terms of radicalized individuals. These radicalized individuals don't adhere or comprehend western values. They still want to kill at will.

So, they should be dealt with accordingly.

Can ANY OF YOU explain to me WHY we (USA, CIA, FBI, Etc) should treat KSM as a POW?? Do you understand what he values? Do you understand what he wants to do to western places?

Please advise..

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

We are at war. We are in a deep recession. Please stop this insanity!

Posted by: mpaterso
-------------------------------------------
If you took your meds as prescribed, you wouldn't have a problem....and Big Pharma would thank you.

Posted by: sasquatchbigfoot | August 25, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Slowly, oh, so slowly, but with an unstoppable momentum, we are watching our country being wrested from the torturers, the fear-mongers, and those cynical people who view civil rights and freedom as campaign rhetoric. In short, we are witnessing the start of dawn breaking and of light illuminating the crimes of one of our nation's darkest administrations. Were it only imcompetence we might feel some compassion for the Republikkans, but too much has already been revealed for anyone to feel anything but disgust.
Shine on, shine on and bring our country back to us.

Republikkans?? Never again.

Posted by: bgreen2224 | August 25, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Stop the witch hunt and target the kingpins.

Posted by: whocares666 | August 25, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Yet the Republicans would spend a billion dollars to prove that ACORN attempted to improperly register a single voter...

I can only conclude that the Republicans fear that having the CIA's role in torture investigated might lead to a further delay in the Republicans' return to power and their subsequent access to the U.S. Treasury.

Posted by: ibsteve2u | August 25, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Question if one of these CIA guys uncovered and foiled a plot to kill hundreds of Americans.. but had to cross the line to do it.. how many years should he get??? Liberals want to punish men who's only goal was to protect the American people. Nice way of saying thanks huh?

Posted by: sovine08 | August 25, 2009 4:42 PM
*******************************

You've got to be kidding, right? Nobody can be that ignorant. First, a hypothetical premise is useless in a court of law: there exist laws and treaties that specifically prohibit this behavior for ANY reason, regardless of the results.

The ends never justify the means in a democracy. If the means have been determined to be abhorrent and therefore laws have been passed outlawing them, and if the ends now seem in some way to mitigate the repugnance previously outlawed, you must change the law (and that's even sidestepping moral questions--remember, we're a "Christian nation" according to you guys).

Second, the events you hypothesize never have happened: the only person claiming actionable, meaningful intelligence was gained from KSM is Cheney and we all know how reliable he is and what his current MO is, as well.

Because of the rampant illegal, political actions of the CIA in the ‘80’s, Congress forced them to comply with more stringent oversight. They are never above the law or off the radar. They are accountable, as an organization of the US government, and as individuals (remember Nuremburg?). If they did not break the law, they have nothing to fear. If they did break the law, I hope the prosecution goes to the top of the chain, though, as in Abu Graib, I have little confidence they’ll go much further than some hapless mid-level manager.

Posted by: abqcleve | August 25, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Someone broke the law by authorizing torture and they need to pay. This should never happen again.

Posted by: JPHT | August 25, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Who cares what Republicans think? This is their mess we're trying to clean up.

Posted by: bigbrother1 | August 25, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Why do Republicans hate the Constitution?

Why do Republicans hate the rule of law, both national and the international treaties we sign?

Why do Republicans demand the protections of law but balk at submitting to it?

Why do Republicans hate the Founding Fathers?

Why do Republicans hate America?


Is there anything Republicans don't hate (besides themselves)?


Posted by: treetopflyer | August 25, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Can ANY OF YOU explain to me WHY we (USA, CIA, FBI, Etc) should treat KSM as a POW?? Do you understand what he values? Do you understand what he wants to do to western places?

Please advise..

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan

----------------------------------------------

Not until you can explain Dan Snyder's management approach to the rest of the world.

Even better: Crawl back into your burgundy and gold cave and wrap yourself in the Post's Sports Section.

Posted by: sasquatchbigfoot | August 25, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

As a Democrat, I don't think this is a great idea. For all intents and purposes, this make the Obama Administration look like they're taking a cheap shot at the Bush Administration.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, the CIA doesn't deserve all the blame that many believe it does. I would place the the lion's share of blame the Bush Administration for contracting out interrogation, for one. For two, even if the Bush Administration didn't specifically condone torture more severe than waterboarding (as far as the public knows), they at the very least created a culture that accepted torture.

So, the Republicans might be right in crying foul in this investigation of CIA personnel who were, for all intents and purposes, just following orders from a torture-friendly organization. It doesn't make what they did right, but honestly now... would you have the courage to disobey those orders, knowing that it would likely cost you your job?

However, what I cannot condone is the Republicans' continued worship of figures in their party who went so far as to condone torture and even suggest that the U.S. expand its torture operations... people like Rush Limbaugh and Dick Cheney, who are each making some souless businessman quite a pretty penny for selling their dangerous rhetoric. (Yes, I know we have freedom of speech in this country, but that protection does not extend to inciting violence, which if you forgot, torture is a form of violence.)

Posted by: joshlct | August 25, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: treetopflyer: Is there anything Republicans don't hate (besides themselves)?


Money...oh, they oh so don't hate money...

Posted by: ibsteve2u | August 25, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Why are Republicans defending torture?

Posted by: gasmonkey | August 25, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

"The liberals feel bad because terrorists like KSM were waterboarded?"

I don't feel bad for KSM. I feel bad for America and what it loses when it descends into brutality.

Posted by: hitpoints | August 25, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

As a disgusted Democrat, I say Eric Holder, you pardoned Marc Rich for crimes that put him on the fugitive list. All so your boss could get a donation from Marcs' wife for his library. That is far more disgusting that questioning killers, even torture. When I say those couples jumping from 100 floors, that was torture to me. Bring it on Eric.

Posted by: gsms69 | August 25, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

This is nothing short of Obama's attempt to deflect Cheney, who proved the President a liar once again. When the facts don't agree with the narrative, change the narrative.

This wasn't the Phoenix Program or anything close. This was our nation's attempt to fight back against the most vicious of enemies. Remember 9/11? Remember the Cole? Remember Kenya or the Khobar Towers?

http://oceanaris.wordpress.com

for my comments

Posted by: oceanaris | August 25, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Hey GOP explain this, why was it not a "witch hunt" to spend years and money going after a president who had sex with a cigar?

Posted by: AverageJane | August 25, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Not until you can explain Dan Snyder's management approach to the rest of the world.

Even better: Crawl back into your burgundy and gold cave and wrap yourself in the Post's Sports Section.

Posted by: sasquatchbigfoot | August 25, 2009 4:59 PM


Good retort bigfoot!

Glad to see that you cant argue a point. But, guess you can't.

I am a democrat but I could care less about these radicalized muslims.

What freedoms and opportunities do they provide the western world??

This was happening a LONG time before 2001.

Read some books, bro

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Does anybody believe that the peeps who are saying that they are "former" and "disgusted" Democrats were ever really Democrats?

lollll...especially after Bush, Cheney, & PNAC, LLP?

The best recruiters the Democrats EVER had?

Posted by: ibsteve2u | August 25, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Any decent human being would see this for the crimes that they were. I repeat, any decent human being would see this for the crimes that they were. I repeat, any decent human being...

Posted by: meowomon | August 25, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Obama to the CIA just a couple months ago (April 2009) -

"So I need everybody to be clear: we will protect your identities and your security as you vigorously pursue your missions. I will be as vigorous in protecting you as you are vigorous in protecting the American people."
read entire transcript here:

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/speeches-testimony/president-obama-at-cia.html

I can't believe I'm saying this, but for once I think Republicans may be right on this criticism.

This moral crusade of Justice Dept. while righteous, is in the long run going to demoralize the CIA and cost the President their support.

You can't say (see transcript) effectively paraphrasing - "I've got your back"

and then a couple months later start a witch hunt that will eventually imo only punish a few lower-level scapegoats,
and let the true war criminals (Cheney, Yoo, etc) go free.

Obama imo is blowing it yet again.

Posted by: davequ | August 25, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

More of that GOP whining.

Posted by: Dale8 | August 25, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Good retort bigfoot!

Glad to see that you cant argue a point. But, guess you can't.

-------------------------------------------
Never try to have a reasoned argument with a pig...errr...Redskins fan. It wastes your time and amuses the Redskins fan.

Posted by: sasquatchbigfoot | August 25, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Torture of innocents ... .

Murder of innocents ... .

God only knows what else ...

What ex-V.P Cheney is attempting here is called CYA: cover your a**.

Jail cells at the Hague are rather drafty ...

Posted by: hogsmile | August 25, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

I would suggest that a great many in the sad remnants of the republican party need to have their own "witch hunt" (you could even change the "w" to a "b" for certain elements in the party) and cleanse themselves of the filth who encouraged the vileness which permeated the reign of terror of the cheney/bush years. Cheney, along with Rumsfeld, in particular, need to have their just desserts and see the inside of a courtroom as war criminals.

Posted by: 10emlet | August 25, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Wow. The vitriol on this board is amazing. There are reasonable Democrats posting here that this is the wrong thing to do.

You guys on with control of the Government now - the Far Left - need to reconsider before you start pulling the trigger. Not only is this dangerous for your immediate political future, it is dangerous for the safety of the United States.

War is not pretty. Torture is wrong. But when you have a proven terrorist in your hands, and he has knowledge of more attacks in the wake of 9/11, doing non-physical enhanced interrogation is fine by me. Even waterboarding was okayed by Dem leaders in Congress, including Pelosi.

You guys on the Left have lost your damn minds. The chickens will come home to roost in 2010 and 2012.

Posted by: mpaterso | August 25, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

again, mr bigfoot..

Please expain your opinions on this matter.

Or do you have to settle for immature statements like "Never try to have a reasoned argument with a pig...errr...Redskins fan. It wastes your time and amuses the Redskins fan"

I would like to hear an opinion?

Just because my userID has "Skinsfan" in it doesn't mean jack.

Cmon..let me hear your opinions on the matter so we can debate as normal adults.

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: davequ "This moral crusade of Justice Dept. while righteous, is in the long run going to demoralize the CIA and cost the President their support."

I think that you have to understand that what you infer is that the President stays in power only with the support of the CIA.

That alone is enough to clang alarm bells everywhere that Democracy is held to be sacred.

Posted by: ibsteve2u | August 25, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

I don't get it. If Republicans are proud of what they did, how is this a "witch hunt?"

Sounds to me like they are proud of what they did as long as no one knows exactly what it was.

Posted by: nodebris | August 25, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Repeat after me. America tortures prisoners. Even GW Bush, former liar in chief, couldn't say it. In fact he stood up, looked America in the eye and said, "Americans don't torture!" Of course, it turns out, he was lying. Or maybe because he got his neo-con yes-men to make up a "let's pretend that if The President says do it it's legal" memo, he actually thought it wasn't torture. Even the brain-damaged, ex-alcoholic frat-boy Bush knew that you couldn't say that it's OK to torture prisoners. Maybe he thought that he could hide it forever so he lied.

Repeat after me. America tortures prisoners. Former enemies of the United States were hung for War Crimes because the water-boarded American prisoners. Ask that pansy, Jesse Ventura if he thinks water-boarding is torture? Ask Dick Cheney if it's OK to torture prisoners. Hell yea! If it works!! All the pro's say it doesn't work.

Repeat after me. America tortures prisoners. America tortures prisoners. America tortures prisoners.

Sorry, maybe in your extremist, right-wing "Christian" America but not in my America.

Posted by: thebobbob | August 25, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Cry me a river for these friggin terrorists. The only onew who feel sorry for them are other terrorists and Democrats. Bring on an investigation. If those being investigater were smart they would say, "Yeah, we did it, who cares if we threatened the family of a man who admitted killing 3000 americans, at least ours were just words".

Posted by: vrbjunk | August 25, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Update: Congressional Republican witches take momentary time-out as their leading Republican warlocks stirring up their big black pot of toil and trouble for all-things Obama order them to target yet another one of the seemingly endless talking point blitzkreig swiftboat PT-109 attack on yet another dastardly act conjured up by the dreaded Muslim Kenyan Chieftain Obama and his tribesmen:

Going after Republican whiches out of season.

The lemmimg Republicans shriek, they wail, they complain, that if it is a Republican which commits a crime, their warlocks say it's therefore not a crime. They also want to know why Obama is not being more bipartisan with them like he promised, which after all, because they are all real team players whose only goal is running Obama off a cliff and covering the tail of all-things which are Republican which pretty much covers all the bad things they do which of course is anything they do.

Posted by: Patriot3 | August 25, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

These republicans aren't smart, caught somewhere in an elderly Disneyland for the brain-damaged and the stroke-adled, they are NOT connected to reality.

But the bigger problem is they're fighting your war -- at least on CNN and Fox, in a world of their own. Torture is not a defense, and the pursuit of torture as a defense only buries the practioner further in the psychological mud and muck, unable to formulate an effective defense.

Those who are crippled cannot think, cannot fight, and we face an asymmetrical war where superior intelligence is paramount. Though this is certainly a matter of law, it also becomes a matter of intelligent defense, and you know, torture is simply a destructive psychological security object with no greater purpose whatsoever excpet to harm the practioner.

Its use will destroy the practioners.

If we did not adhere to the Constitutoinal principles, we would be no more than Israel.

The practice and institutionalization of torture is SO deadly to intelligent thought and function, it could almost be thought of as an enemy plot to destroy US intelligence.


Posted by: thegreatpotatospamof2003 | August 25, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

After all the torture, after Cheney's hit squads, after all the cover ups over the Iraq War ... What was gained ? What did we learn ? I don't think the average American benefited from any of this. The Republicans say we're safer ... this was after 9-11 ... What were Bush / Cheney / CIA doing before 9-11 ? 9-11 happened while the Republicans were in power ... WHY ???

Posted by: wasaUFO | August 25, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

To quote the GOP Christian standard law-and order reply:

If they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear.

Posted by: coloradodog | August 25, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

You will never find 12 jurors who will convict. Never, ever. Longer term, this witchhunt is a losing proposition, totally politically motivated for short-term appeasement of the Far Left so that Obama can drop the Public Option without much more complaint.

Posted by: mpaterso | August 25, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Lord Cheney taught his marionettes to (using his own words) "get around the law"

Let his chickens come home to roost - hopefully in his McClain attic where he does.

Posted by: coloradodog | August 25, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Question: Why do we, as americans, care what happened during the Bush administration in regards to the CIA??

Let me say that I am a democrat and in NO WAY like, have voted for, and mostly disagreed with Bush policies during his presidency.

However, I would rather have some radicalized individuals, who only want to kill, suffer for the sake of the greater good, rather then have to explain to someone that their family member died because I was NICE and HUMANE to someone who is devout and wants to kill members of our society.

Look at it as you may, but that is MY opinion...right or wrong.

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

What about those disgusting republicans who impeached Bill Clinton over something most of them were doing-talk about a witch hunt,I'll never forgive those hypocrites

Posted by: LDTRPT25 | August 25, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

AG Holder (despite Obama's tongue in cheek protests) is politically obliging himself to Obama and in the process will cause the deaths of many Americans. The Democratic Party's concept of "illegal" is anything that it wants to be considered as "illegal" and there will payback come November 2010. Obama wants to destroy the CIA as Jimmy Carter did back in the '70s and the future consequences of Holder's actions will define Obama's legacy in a non-positive way.

Posted by: dodavatar | August 25, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

To quote the GOP Christian standard law-and order reply:

If they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear.

Posted by: coloradodog
Repeat after me. America tortures prisoners. America tortures prisoners. America tortures prisoners.

Sorry, maybe in your extremist, right-wing "Christian" America but not in my America.

Posted by: thebobbob
What ex-V.P Cheney is attempting here is called CYA: cover your a**.

Jail cells at the Hague are rather drafty ...

Posted by: hogsmile

Hatred for Christians? Putting American CIA agents or former American politicians on trial in the Netherlands?

Do you guys really think you're changing average Americans' minds with that bile?

Posted by: mpaterso | August 25, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Shorter GOP: "Rule of Law for you, not for us! Rule of Law for you, not for us!"

Posted by: JPRS | August 25, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

"HARRY - You're 20 points down in the Nevada Polls, although you voted for every lunatic, economically infeasible, poorly contrived and unread bill headed your way ... pretend you're not 100% a Space Cadet ... vote NO"

"This whole deal is just a distraction from our ObamaCare disaster, Lunatic "Cap & Trade", Union kickbacks"

Your buddy Rahm

Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) opposing it

Posted by: ayrescayo | August 25, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

The best comment I've heard so far is, "Witches don't like Witch Hunts." It's also the most accurate. This has nothing to do national security. It has everything to do with what is going to come out and how embarrassing and illegal it will look to the American people. Frankly, I wouldn't be shocked if Obama orchestrated this investigation. After the lies and falsehoods over the health care reform bill by these "caring" republicans maybe a little shock and awe of what heinous people they are should make a big splash in the news paper. I know they are crying about this. On one hand it's OK to smear Obama, but God forbid Obama sets in motion a course of action that will smear the smearers. The R's have brought this on themselves and I hope a whole boat full of them end up in jail when this is over. Couldn't happen to a more worthy group of people who are the REAL danger to this country.

Posted by: boblund1 | August 25, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

You will never find 12 jurors who will convict. Never, ever. Longer term, this witchhunt is a losing proposition, totally politically motivated for short-term appeasement of the Far Left so that Obama can drop the Public Option without much more complaint.

--------

Here:

When you chose to torture and commit treason, you destroy the legal and social code, the legal and social contracts for a society.

Those who would persecute YOU FOR torturing with or without a trial (like you would persecute the terrorists with or without trial) have no reason to obey laws protecting YOUR rights.

Jury?

We don't need no stinking jury.

WHY do you think people have been screaming about this?

You took apart the law, meaning it can no longer protect you either.

Posted by: thegreatpotatospamof2003 | August 25, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Ironic they call it a witch hunt. Scotland, 1730: the last known instance in Anglo-American jurisprudence of a trial, conviction and execution based on a confession of witchcraft derived from torture. Congressional hearings 2006: the last known instance of a US government official (an Army General) arguing that we should try, convict and execute detainees based on confessions obtained through torture.

Posted by: Rafaelo | August 25, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse


The ultra left crazies and the Democratic senators who support their views clearly demonstrate Forrest Gump's observation: Stupid is as stupid does.

They know that the top leadership responsible will never go to trial. Bush and Cheney will skate away. So the ultra lefties want to crush the CIA foot soldiers as a consolution prize. Stupid is as stupid does.

The vast majority of American are upset with what happen but not to the point where CIA agents are more interested in covering their own butts than protecting ours.

Is Holder(and thus his boss Obama) trying to make more work for lawyers? Will every CIA agent retained a lawyer whom he/she calls first before taking any action to protect us.

Obviously Democrats just cannot stand to be successful and in control because they are engaged in self destruction.

As a former Alaskan I have told friends Sarah Palin would never become president unless Obama self destructs. Well, it looks like Sarah Palin will become president in JAN 2013.

Posted by: wj_phillips | August 25, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

"Those who would persecute YOU FOR torturing with or without a trial (like you would persecute the terrorists with or without trial) have no reason to obey laws protecting YOUR rights.

Jury?

We don't need no stinking jury."

You guys are completely unhinged!

thegreatpotatospamof2003, I'll bet you were just shaking with anger when you wrote that!

LOL!

Posted by: mpaterso | August 25, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

The whines of the GOP are eerily similar to those of the Nixon admin. and Erlichman, Haldeman and Dean.

The louder they cry, the more they have to hide. A rectal exam is in order.

Posted by: ScottChallenger | August 25, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

What's new? The self-righteous GOP fundamentalists find it moral to torture? Time to replace more of our representatives, for moral reasons. These are the same people who do not want universal health care for all Americans.

We have really lost our way...


Posted by: NMremote | August 25, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans would have a legitimate gripe except there are witches that need to be hunted.

Posted by: Honest_Abe | August 25, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Of course the Republicans don't want us prying more in there incredible incompetents and illegal acts! They will once again go down as the most Corrupt Party in America's history... One would think the Repubcons would have learned by now, absolute power, corrupts absolutely!

Woodbridge Va: I had a friend in the Pentagon and a cousin in the World Trade Center. How does the discomfort endured by the terrorists compare to inhaling flaming aviation fuel or being driven by heat to jump from the 90th floor? Will interogaters at least be allowed to use a stern voice when questioning them or is that too injurious to their delicate sensabilities?

R. Jeffrey Smith: a reasonable question. I suggest you look at published accounts of the interrogation methods in the newly-revised Army Field Manual. there are some that could be used to apply significant emotional -- not physical -- pressure against detainees. but the law is clear, according to one of the memos we got this morning: government officials are not allowed to use conditions of confinement or interrogation to PUNISH. that's illegal, flatly. and also bear in mind that the purpose of interrogation is not to make someone talk, but to elicit information that is true. those are quite different ambitions.

Well said!!!Fire all Republicans, they are detrimental to the Health and welfare of all American Citizens...

Posted by: nallcando | August 25, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Cmon..let me hear your opinions on the matter so we can debate as normal adults.

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan
------------------------------------------
If you had bothered to read through the thread before you expressed an opinion, you would have seen my views posted at 4:19 p.m.

Apparently you think it's more important for you to "talk" before "listening." Ego before intellect.

As a long-time denizen of the DC Metro area, I've learned that anyone whose public identify features the Redskins has limited ability to understand another point of view, either cognitively or emotionally.

Posted by: sasquatchbigfoot | August 25, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

If anyone would know about 'witch hunts', it would be the Republicans.

I'm trying to start a movement to renane Republicans to Ferengi ..

Ferengi - A culture characterized by a mercantile obsession with profit and trade and their constant efforts to swindle people into bad deals; also known for their business acumen and for exploiting females. Their religion is based on the principles of capitalism: offering prayers and monetary offerings to a "Blessed Exchequer" hoping to enter the "Divine Treasury" upon death, and fear an afterlife spent in the in the "Vault of Eternal Destitution".

It just seems like a pretty accurate description.

Posted by: stodayxx | August 25, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

wj_phillips,

It'll probably impact CIA contractors more than CIA agents. I agree though that this is more like Abu Gharib with foot-soldiers bearing the consequences for implementing an illegal policy formulated higher up the chain of command.

On the other hand, if the AG finds grounds for concern, he must do what the law requires.

By definition that is his job.

The political calculation dictates the line of least resistance. The AG is supposed to act independent of those considerations without interference from the White House.

To the extent that "ultra lefties" are doing what the law requires, they are honoring their commitment to the Constitution itself. That doesn't mean that voters and law-breakers won't attempt to exact a political price.

I would be surprised if they didn't.

Posted by: JPRS | August 25, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

I suppose that the guards at the Nazi concentration camps probably felt that the Nuremburg trials were "bad for morale" as well.

Posted by: Heerman532 | August 25, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Sad pathetic attempt to deflect spotlight off the failed health-care and record deficit Dems have caused these last 3 years. Now the men and women of the CIA that protect all of us are being hunted down by the haters of the extreme left that are Obama's puppet masters. When the next attack comes we'll know the Dems caused it.

Posted by: lapagano | August 25, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

This is simply a politically calculated diversion to take public pressure off the healthcare fiasco and the huge trillions of dollars in deficit increases that was announced.

Going after Americans who had the guts to confront the 9/11 terrorists, while making heroes and victims of the terrorists is despicable.

Posted by: chicago77 | August 25, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

I gotta say; Back when I was a witch I really HATED witch hunts!

Posted by: Heerman532 | August 25, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse


The ultra right crazies and the Republican senators who support their views clearly demonstrate Forrest Gump's observation:

Stupid is as stupid does!
____________________________________________

WOW!! wj_phillips! You have just described your corrupt Republican, pseudo Christian far-right-wing-nut Party to a tee! Stupid is as Stupid does!!!

Posted by: nallcando | August 25, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

In some cases, did the CIA kidnap family members of detainees and also torture them? Were some prisoners killed and in other cases, were some prisoners mistaken as terrorists and then tortured. It's because of this the Republicans are afraid. And they need to be.

Posted by: magnifco1000 | August 25, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

"I suppose that the guards at the Nazi concentration camps probably felt that the Nuremburg trials were "bad for morale" as well.

Posted by: Heerman532"

There we go! Equate CIA interrogators wielding power drills and empty pistols in front of KSM to get him to reveal the next terror attack, to the Nazis!

Unhinged, I tell you! You are completely insane. This exercise is going to cost your side very dearly with the American people.

Keep going though. I'm looking forward to election night 2010 and 2012.

Posted by: mpaterso | August 25, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse


Sad pathetic attempt to deflect spotlight off the failed health-care and record deficit Dems have caused these last 3 years. Now the men and women of the CIA that protect all of us are being hunted down by the haters of the extreme left that are Obama's puppet masters. When the next attack comes we'll know the Dems caused it.

Posted by: lapagano

////////////////////////////////

Amen.

History records too that:
1. W. was not president;
2. three major deficit drivers enacted in 2003 with GOP majorities: W.'s trillion dollar sugar-daddy tax-cut; his war; and Medicare Plan D should be blamed on the party that controlled neither the White House nor the Congress at the time of their enactment too. Of course they should be held responsible for the impact of laws that they did not enact.

God bless GOP revisionists. They think the average American is as senile as the typical GOP voter.

Posted by: JPRS | August 25, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

WAG THE DOG WITCH HUNTS SO STATE-CONTROLLED HEALTH CARE CAN GET SHOVED DOWN OUR COLLECTIVE THROATS.
The CIA used scare tactics and threats to gain information. That they have been doing that for years all over the world in every intelligency agency of every civilized country is not the issue. The issue is that it was GEORGE W. BUSH'S CIA. Everybody hates Bush so the theory is and anytime we are going down the path of stupidity let's drag Bush into it.

Posted by: mharwick | August 25, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

"In some cases, did the CIA kidnap family members of detainees and also torture them? Were some prisoners killed and in other cases, were some prisoners mistaken as terrorists and then tortured. It's because of this the Republicans are afraid. And they need to be.


Posted by: magnifco1000"

Where do you guys find this garbage? And why do I need to be afraid? Are you going to come and hurt me?

Posted by: mpaterso | August 25, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

These are the same inbred clodhoppers who defend rapists in general because 'women are just asking for it' and the KKK lynchings of the past because 'them blacks are too uppity'. Any Senator or Congressman calling this a witch hunt is a Nazi and should be removed from office, forcibly, and imprisoned for treason. There is no place in this country, no place on the face of this earth, where they even deserve to live. Hang 'em or execute these swine by firing squad.

Posted by: mibrooks27 | August 25, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse


"I suppose that the guards at the Nazi concentration camps probably felt that the Nuremburg trials were "bad for morale" as well.

Posted by: Heerman532"

There we go! Equate CIA interrogators wielding power drills and empty pistols in front of KSM to get him to reveal the next terror attack, to the Nazis!

Unhinged, I tell you! You are completely insane. This exercise is going to cost your side very dearly with the American people.

Keep going though. I'm looking forward to election night 2010 and 2012.

Posted by: mpaterso

/////////////////////////////////

GOPers keep forgetting that we don't have a parliamentary system. The Nazi's never got more than 34 percent of the vote. Most Americans are neither Nazis nor Republicans.

And thank God for that.

Posted by: JPRS | August 25, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

The worst part about this is that it helps our enemies. The more weakness we apply, the easier it will be for them to plan and implement.

No one in leadership seems to see that.

Posted by: thelaw1 | August 25, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

God Saves Obama!

Is there a limit to the humanism of the actual president of the United States?

The findings compiled by the CIA's inspector general in 2004 about the agency's detention and interrogation of terrorists is astonishing. Interrogators threatened terrorists with a gun shot in a nearby room, with a power drill and cigarette smoke. In one case a CIA contractor beat a detainee who subsequently died. In another case CIA threats to kill a suspect's children and other cruel interrogation tactics. Millions of Americans are shocked.

The criminal investigation launches by the Obama administration Monday into inhumane methods once secretly used against terror suspects should be sees as what it is: one of the most courageous and humane actions done by any head of states on that planet. If these actions are successful, Obama will have his place in history books with the greatest humanist who ever exists. What a bold unprecedented move!

Just think about it. North of his border, Canada, when face with similar actions by the RCMP against its own terrorists between 1970 and 1980, preferred creating a special force (CSIS) to let agents attacking separatist outside his own law. What Obama just did shows the real American spirit. Today, and once since a wile, many citizens of this world wish they were American.

Posted by: michel_gourd | August 25, 2009 5:51 PM | Report abuse

When your wife and child are held for ransom and the guy in custody won't talk because no one put the heat on him what would you be willing to do to the mutt to make him cough up the information on how to rescue them both?

Idiots: We have been free of bomb attacks on our soil since 9/11. Be grateful to Bush at least for that. If he erred. He erred on the side of the safety of the American people. If Obama commits an error you can bet it will be in favor of our enemies.

Posted by: mharwick | August 25, 2009 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Why should CIA be investigated? They are only killing second rate humans on behalf of the President and the American people in the Middle East., Central America and South America.

Posted by: clark010 | August 25, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

The WITCHES that need to be hunted are the GOONS that caused the BAD MORTGAGES . Those HEATHENS knew exactly what they were causing ... IF THEY DID NOT then we can't afford to have their stupid "BLACK CAUCUS" just to make a few NEANDERTHALS feel like BIG SHOTS !!!! The CROOKS IN OFFICE ARE TURNING THIS INTO A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY ... DISEASES AND ALL! Where are the SHOVEL READY JOBS ???? THIS ADMINISTRATION IS A DISGRACE !!!! Why aren't they WITCHING Rahm EMANUEL and his connections to BLAGO ? HOW MANY TIMES WAS HE IN CONTACT WITH BLAGO ABOUT THE SAME SEAT THAT BLAGO LEFT TO BECOME GOVERNOR ? ? WITCH HUNT the NAZIs behind the GENOCIDE HEALTH CARE BILL that They gripe they have tried to pass it for 30 yrs BUT THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT SAYS ??? Why isn't the so called "JUSTICE DEPT trying to WITCH HUNT and protest the CAP AND TRADE that will raise your POWER BILL 90% by the next election . NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND SHOULD WORK FOR GOVERNMENT UNDER THIS SATAN POSSESSED ADMINISTRATION full of snakes..

Posted by: noHUCKABEEnoVOTE | August 25, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: COLEBRACKETT |
"The Republicants can't stand that treaties and laws were broken...."

OK, that seems to be the general refrain from the left.

Please, leftists, I beg you to educate this wayward conservative. What US law was broken when loud music or other noises (drills?) were played against detainees? What US law was broken when the terrorists (NOT armed combatants under Geneva Convention protection) were sleep deprived? Please provide the reference that states these are "torture."

I'll wait right here for your answer.

I suspect I"ll be waiting a looooonggg time.

Posted by: silencedogoodreturns | August 25, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

This is simply a politically calculated diversion to take public pressure off the healthcare fiasco and the huge trillions of dollars in deficit increases that was announced.

Going after Americans who had the guts to confront the 9/11 terrorists, while making heroes and victims of the terrorists is despicable.

___________________________________________________

Really if your corrupt Republican party had not stopped Clinton from going after Osama Binforgotten at Tora bora, 9/11 might never happened on the Republican watch! NO your corrupt party of misfits were too busy screaming, the same thing as you are now! that Clinton was "Wagging the Dog" to take away from the fact that you idiots were trying to prosecuting Clinton for the B.J. Monica Lewinsky gave him! You sir are a sorry excuse for an American...Typical Republicans, no morals, no courage and no integrity!

Posted by: nallcando | August 25, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

When your wife and child are held for ransom and the guy in custody won't talk because no one put the heat on him what would you be willing to do to the mutt to make him cough up the information on how to rescue them both?

Idiots: We have been free of bomb attacks on our soil since 9/11. Be grateful to Bush at least for that. If he erred. He erred on the side of the safety of the American people. If Obama commits an error you can bet it will be in favor of our enemies.

Posted by: mharwick |

====================

When your wife is mistakenly taken as a terrorist and is being tortured with drills and death threats, you will wonder why our government could ever allow such things to happen.

Posted by: Honest_Abe | August 25, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

There are 3 classes of detainee treatment:

a) Everything allowed by the Army Field Manual, stuff that everyone agrees is totally legal according to national and international laws

b) Waterboarding and stress positions that the Bush administration said were ok but are beyond what the AFM allows.

c) Stuff that is beyond what the Bush admin said was OK. Mock executions, threatening someone's children with death, etc.

The only think that AG Holder has said would be investigated is the actions that fall into category c. Without getting into the legality of b, it is reasonable that people that went beyond what the Bush Admin gave permission to do were breaking the law.

Obama has said that people that took actions in category b will not face punishment. I'm ok with that.

The other group of people are those that wrote and approved the memos that said that category b actions were legal. Maybe they should not be practicing law, but I haven't heard any administration official indicate that those people would face a criminal trial.

If we don't prosecute those that broke the Bush-era regulations then we will never get our international standing back and we will never be able to place ANY limits on our interrogators in the future.

Let us not forget that there is not ONE SHRED OF INFO that the category b or c techniques generated that was in any way useful to prevent future attacks.

In fact, if you use category b and c on me, I'll invent bad things to tell you about so you will stop. So too did the detainees invent things. We spend a lot of time and money chasing threats that were invented by people who were being tortured in order to stop the torture. Who does that help?

Posted by: cyberfool | August 25, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

It's this kind of thing that made me leave the Republican Party. Anyone who thinks America should torture does not understand the importance of rule of law.

Without it, we are no better than any violent regime and my (former) party is deeply, deeply misguided on this.

Posted by: thecheddar | August 25, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Are these the same republicans who ordered DNA analysis of Monica Lewinsky's blue dress in their search for sperm?

That blow job did not implicate me or my children in a crime. The torture of suspects was done in my name. I am implicated.
So I want the world to know that, as an american citizen, I did not condone it.

I think "witch hunts" are actually the forte of the GOP.

Posted by: tmcproductions2004 | August 25, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

If it is a witch hunt, then surely Sarah Palin approves?

Posted by: careysub | August 25, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

The WITCHES that need to be hunted are the GOONS that caused the BAD MORTGAGES . Those HEATHENS knew exactly what they were causing ... IF THEY DID NOT then we can't afford to have their stupid "BLACK CAUCUS" just to make a few NEANDERTHALS feel like BIG SHOTS !!!! The CROOKS IN OFFICE ARE TURNING THIS INTO A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY ... DISEASES AND ALL! Where are the SHOVEL READY JOBS ???? THIS ADMINISTRATION IS A DISGRACE !!!! Why aren't they WITCHING Rahm EMANUEL and his connections to BLAGO ? HOW MANY TIMES WAS HE IN CONTACT WITH BLAGO ABOUT THE SAME SEAT THAT BLAGO LEFT TO BECOME GOVERNOR ? ? WITCH HUNT the NAZIs behind the GENOCIDE HEALTH CARE BILL that They gripe they have tried to pass it for 30 yrs BUT THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT SAYS ??? Why isn't the so called "JUSTICE DEPT trying to WITCH HUNT and protest the CAP AND TRADE that will raise your POWER BILL 90% by the next election . NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND SHOULD WORK FOR GOVERNMENT UNDER THIS SATAN POSSESSED ADMINISTRATION full of snakes..

Posted by: noHUCKABEEnoVOTE
_______________________________________________

You are so right that is why we must put Bush and Cheney on trial! Because

"NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND SHOULD WORK FOR GOVERNMENT UNDER THIS SATAN POSSESSED ADMINISTRATION full of snakes.."

Posted by: nallcando | August 25, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

The lame Republicans know they did wrong. We need to put Bushie Boy and the loser Chaney on trial.

Posted by: Classic60 | August 25, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

WAG THE DOG WITCH HUNTS SO STATE-CONTROLLED HEALTH CARE CAN GET SHOVED DOWN OUR COLLECTIVE THROATS.
The CIA used scare tactics and threats to gain information. That they have been doing that for years all over the world in every intelligency agency of every civilized country is not the issue. The issue is that it was GEORGE W. BUSH'S CIA. Everybody hates Bush so the theory is and anytime we are going down the path of stupidity let's drag Bush into it.

Posted by: mharwick

///////////////////////////////

The problem with W. is that his understanding of Constitutional law was about as sophisticated as the typical American (e.g. he might have read the document once or twice in high school).

His understanding of effective interrogation tactics was about the same. He, and the GOP base, still seem to think that coerced confessions honed by the Communist Chinese are intelligence gathering techniques. No, they are the instruments of petty tyrannies.

As far as "saving lives" goes. 18,000 Americans under the age of 65 die every year because of inability to access timely and affordable health care. This does not bother the typical GOP voter.

Posted by: JPRS | August 25, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

It's an exorcism, not a witch hunt. I would have thought the party of fundamentalism could tell the difference.

Posted by: psst_limbaugh_keep-ranting_satan | August 25, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

You screeching Republicans have to stop being such total losers.
You are loads of fun to laugh at.

Posted by: euroguy | August 25, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

many of those bell-aching in congress approved of these extremist tactics.

hopefully they too will be prosecuted and jailed.

real patriots and citizens do not fear justice.

criminals like kyl and bond should serve time as they are guilty of terrorism against the constitution and should be tried as the true war criminals, with their traitorous leaders bushcheney.

Posted by: blue111 | August 25, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

The hypocrytes are out in full force. Let's vote them into obscurity where they belong. They have done nothing but obstruct anything that benefits the average American.

Posted by: walkman1956 | August 25, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

So, lets see - in its first seven months, this adminstration starts releasing terrorists from Gitmo, prostrates itself to the Arab world in Cairo, fails to stop the release of a convicted mass murderer of Americans from a Scottish prison, permits NK to conduct further missile tests, and now is going to start hounding CIA interragators who were acting in good faith to protect fellow Americans? This administration has many priorities, but national security is not one of them. God help us when the terrorists strike again.

Posted by: Illini | August 25, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

O'Bama has guaranteed that the GOP will rise again.

Posted by: ravitchn | August 25, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Can ANY OF YOU explain to me WHY we (USA, CIA, FBI, Etc) should treat KSM as a POW?? Do you understand what he values? Do you understand what he wants to do to western places?

Please advise..

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan
----------------------------------------------
Do you understand what the Nazis stood for? The annihilation of an entire race? They were afforded the protections of the Geneva Conventions, so KSM should be too.

Posted by: treetopflyer | August 25, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

NO ... REPUBLICANS aren't going to be affraid ... THEY ARE THE ONES THAT DEFEND YOUR FREEDOM TO BE SISSY'S AND JERKS AT ANY COST . But don't expect any answers if it should happen that you or your PORCH MONKEYs are kidnapped and time is running out for answers ... Our soldiers are being tied up while your HEATHEN IN CHEIF makes sitting ducks of them .

Posted by: noHUCKABEEnoVOTE | August 25, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

JaxMax said: "Obama has declared war on the CIA, and America has already LOST" and also "psssssssst.......... has anyone told Obama that its HIS CIA and that he is shooting himself in the head figuratively???????"
______

JaxMax, you do realize that Attorney General Holder and President Obama are two different people, right? If you actually read any news articles on this topic, you should realize that Obama has nothing to do with this. In fact, he appears to be subtly discouraging Holder from moving forward, which is about all he can do without appearing to interfere with prosecutorial independence (sorry about the all those big words -- you can google what they mean if you need to).

Is the problem that you didn't read the news? Or is it that you have poor reading comprehension?

Either way, the problem with trying to reason with Obama-haters like you is that it doesn't matter what happens, and whether Obama is for it or against it . . . it's all his fault!! Facts? Pshaw, who needs those! "America has already lost"?? Now there's a well thought-out statement. Last I checked, the Stars-n-Stripes are still flying in the town square. But then, you actually want America to go down the tubes, don't you? Better than admitting you were wrong! Some of us love our country enough to admit to mistakes and try to learn from them, rather than pray for failure so we can say "I told you so." Has it occurred to you that if the previous administration hadn't acted like war criminals, we wouldn't be in this bind at all? But that's another discussion altogether . . . one that would require facts, so I'm guessing you wouldn't want to have it.

There are legitimate reasons to be concerned about the investigation and potential prosecution of CIA officials for their actions -- just as there are also legitimate reasons to support such investigations. This is a serious issue which deserves an informed, rational and well-reasoned discussion, even if it might get heated at times. But there's no reason for that discussion to get STUPID. So, how 'bout you either try to base your thoughts on reality, or just sit this one out?

Posted by: tomguy1 | August 25, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, treetopflyer, if you think Al Qaeda gets the same rights as German POWs. Germany was recognized nation, with soldiers in uniform under state control Al Qaeda is a stateless terrorist organization. They do NOT have Geneva Convention rights like armed combatant soldiers do.

Posted by: silencedogoodreturns | August 25, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Idiots: We have been free of bomb attacks on our soil since 9/11. Be grateful to Bush at least for that. If he erred. He erred on the side of the safety of the American people. If Obama commits an error you can bet it will be in favor of our enemies.

Posted by: mharwick |
______________________________________________

WE were attacked on the Republicans watch! Obama has kept us safe so far!

Breaking laws do not make us safe! Torture does not gleam reliable information...Its funny how our Police are able to extract information from guilty men and some of them were terrorist..Not once did they have to resort to torture...Our police were smart enough to know, torture is against our laws and it would only undermine their ability to try prisoners in a court of law... Hello????

Posted by: nallcando | August 25, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

:)
Look smart ass, if you want to argue substance you're in the right place but if not, you can take that ignorant condescending crap and put it where the sun doesn't shine.

Posted by: rplat | August 25, 2009 4:35 PM |_______________________________________
:)

I take it that means no.
:)

Posted by: lostinthemiddle | August 25, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Republican Party - the natural home of the morally, emotionally and intellectually puny.

Posted by: treetopflyer | August 25, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

hey noHUCKABEEnoVOTE

your jerk huck works for fox now.

think he has a chance?

get that shovel and you and the phony jesus freak can start digging the mass graves your leaders approved, koolaid drinker.

Posted by: blue111 | August 25, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Let me get this straight,

First, they want to release the 9/11 terrorists who conspired to kill 3,000 Americans in NY and DC from Gitmo and bring them to the US all lawyered up.

Then, they want to send our intel and counter-terrorism officials to prison.

Frickin' Amazing!

Posted by: chicago77 | August 25, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, treetopflyer, if you think Al Qaeda gets the same rights as German POWs. Germany was recognized nation, with soldiers in uniform under state control Al Qaeda is a stateless terrorist organization. They do NOT have Geneva Convention rights like armed combatant soldiers do.
_____________________________________________________

YOur wrong Al Qaeda is covered under the Geneva Convention.. keep reading!

Posted by: nallcando | August 25, 2009 6:13 PM | Report abuse

This sets a very bad precedent. Now, there is nothing to stop the next Republican president from investigating everything President Obama is doing. And the next Democratic president can investigate that Republican administration.

It can start a terrible cycle.

A case in point is when President Clinton pardoned a collection of known criminals just before leaving office, there was huge pressure on President Bush to investigate. To his credit, he refused saying that he would defend the power of the President.

There is nothing good that can come from this - we already know President Bush and VP Cheney authorized the use of torture, have admitted it and maintain they did it for our national safety. Whether you believe it or not, what is to be gained from investigating this? The only outcome will be to diminish the power of the President.

Posted by: agupta1 | August 25, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Let me get this straight,

First, they want to release the 9/11 terrorists who conspired to kill 3,000 Americans in NY and DC from Gitmo and bring them to the US all lawyered up.

Then, they want to send our intel and counter-terrorism officials to prison.

Frickin' Amazing!
_____________________________________________________________

Yeah its funny how laws are! You break them, you in up in the same prison...

Posted by: nallcando | August 25, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

A NATION OF LAWS?
Attorney General Eric Holder might yet prove to us in the present era that, truly, no one is above the law. As against an earlier argument advanced by Dick Cheney and some Republicans, the end does not justify the means. Western democracies have long discarded such an argument. In some Moslem countries, they cut off body parts of prisoners in their search for truth, or for sheer revenge. Can we do this, and still be different—and better? Some have argued that Eric Holder has not gone far enough—as he placed an unwarranted limit on what may be probed. Some human rights groups have called for a full probe. Without doubt expediency dictates Eric Holder’s more limited action. He is duty-bound under the Constitution to uphold the law—without bias or special favors to the powerful. Thus will he demonstrate to the world the sanctity and integrity of the American legal system. Some like Dick Cheney may beg to differ. In fact, Cheney’s attitude suggests his contempt for the law. Thus he openly disagrees with his boss for not giving full pardon to “Scooter” Libby. Cheney hovers menacingly over our current political horizon, still kicking, still arguing that we are stronger and more secure as a nation by doing things that are over the top, things that clearly violet American and international law. We should not fall for such a sugar-coated approach to governance. We are better off as a nation of laws! Stay tuned, DICK!

Posted by: DrSam1 | August 25, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

Obama tried to play softball with the Republicans but all he got back was a middle finger. It's time Obama takes the gloves off and go nuclear. He needs to pass his healthcare program without the republicans, he needs to give the go ahead for investigations into the Bush administration and Dick Cheney. They want to play hardball? Let's play hardball!

Posted by: Sadaam | August 25, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

While I abhor some of the excesses that were promoted during the last administration using the CIA - particularly Dick Cheney's role - I believe the Obama Administration is making a huge mistake here.

In the ambiguity after 9/11, many of the American people (myself included) believed that the next attacks would be imminent. For the protection of ordinary citizens and for the continuity of our government, the Bush Administration devised some aggressive ways to deal with the terror threat. As the immediate threat waned and we figured out more about al Qaeda, the Bush Administration adjusted some of its aggressive interrogation approaches and devised more formalized standards. The Bush Administration refined its approach by 2006 - and contrary to what Cheney says, this was appropriate.

I do not believe that any CIA operative or contractor should be held criminally responsible for actions promoted by the Bush Administration. Furthermore, I see no point in prosecuting anyone in the Bush Administration because they were facing the most serious and most immediate existential threat to our country since Pearl Harbor. While I believe that some of the early program was out of line, it was devised and adjusted by skilled lawyers and skilled CIA operatives and contractors who were doing their utmost to balance security and liberty.

In order to have liberty fully flourish, you need a minimal level of security that sometimes needs to be adjusted as threats arise. But, we always have a duty to balance security with liberty such that security trumps the liberties of ordinary Americans. I am much more concerned about certain aspects of the Patriot Act that should be reformed that apply to US citizens in the United States than I am about foreign unlawful enemy combatants. I think it would be shameful and disgraceful if this Administration were to prosecute CIA operatives just to create a side issue to divert the public's scrutiny from the Administration's own aggressive, excessive, and costly domestic agenda.

Posted by: chrojo01 | August 25, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

This is wrong, this is evil pure and simple and the Republicans are right. The only thing that ever needs to be investigated has to involve sex and only if a Democrat commits it -- Republicans can cheat on their wives with other men or women, small and large animals and it is just fine -- they are pure of heart don't you know.

I do not look forward to hearing the details of the criminal acts that yielded no results except hatred from the rest of the world and I do not favor actual agents who were ordered to torture being punished however the country has to look under these rocks and expose the wrongs done and place the blame where it belongs -- on W and Cheney who encouraged and promoted this behavior. I do not want the CIA equivalent of Lyndie England to be punished I want the ones who wrote the guidelines and pushed these people to "get results" even though nothing was ever discovered due to torture.

I know the terrorists caught (for the most part except the 80 year old or the 12 year old and a few hundred others turned in for non-terrorist reasons) are evil and I do not cry for them but cry instead for the loss of our Constitution and our standing in the world as a beacon of freedom and a nation of laws. With complete disregard for the Geneva Convention men who avoided serving their country by enlisting sold our soul to the devil. These so-called men were such cowards they could not defend the Constitution they swore to protect and instead destroyed it from within. Bin Laden's goal was to destroy the US from the inside, abandon our morals and our standing in the world and Bush and Cheney rushed to help him. If we do not hold them accountable then the terrorists have won a great victory.

Posted by: Lemon7221 | August 25, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

These wanna be fascist on the right are the most danger to our Democracy now. The rule of law must be preserved, prosecute bush and cheney, they are the ones responsible.

Posted by: calif-joe | August 25, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

The Repubs are cowering to their lunatic fringe and in the middle of encouraging them to start a domestic war to overthrow the country. We liberals should all buy guns to protect ourselves and our friends and family from attacks from right-wing terrorists. I'm all for activating our troops for protection from these racists. They will start something. We will fight back for our country.

Posted by: tuttlegroup | August 25, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

The worst part about this is that it helps our enemies. The more weakness we apply, the easier it will be for them to plan and implement.

No one in leadership seems to see that.

Posted by: thelaw1

///////////////////////////////

If tough talk protected nations the Nazis would have won WWII.

It's no coincidence either that nation's associated with torture tend to be:
A. former colonial powers.
B. Tyrannies.

The U.S. should aspire to be neither.

At some point, intelligent policy matters.

Another way to look at this too: The more torture we use, the easier it is for them to recruit.

What do we get in exchange? We compromise our values; and we get unreliable intelligence, which wastes our resources.

Posted by: JPRS | August 25, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Correction "But, we always have a duty to balance security with liberty such that security doesn't trump the most basic liberties of ordinary Americans. "

Posted by: chrojo01 | August 25, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

"We can't uncover and prosecute torture crimes, airing it out will only further enrage terrorists. We must let these past decisions go unpunished, how however hard that might be, to suck it up, do the right thing and show no weakness."

From a friend of a friend of John Yoo.

Posted by: yarbrougharts | August 25, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, treetopflyer, if you think Al Qaeda gets the same rights as German POWs. Germany was recognized nation, with soldiers in uniform under state control Al Qaeda is a stateless terrorist organization. They do NOT have Geneva Convention rights like armed combatant soldiers do.
_____________________________________________________

YOur wrong Al Qaeda is covered under the Geneva Convention.. keep reading!

Posted by: nallcando | August 25, 2009 6:13 PM | Report abuse
---------------------------------------
No,silencedogoodreturns is correct. According to the terms of the Geneva Convention, AQ prisoners are not entitled to rights described in the Convention. They have been granted some of those rights only under pressure from international and domestic interest groups, but the US is under no legal obligation to accord them the rights. Killing Americans doesn't automatically entitle you to GC or constitutional rights.

Posted by: Illini | August 25, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

diots: We have been free of bomb attacks on our soil since 9/11. Be grateful to Bush at least for that. If he erred. He erred on the side of the safety of the American people. If Obama commits an error you can bet it will be in favor of our enemies.

Posted by: mharwick |
______________________________________________

WE were attacked on the Republicans watch! Obama has kept us safe so far!

Breaking laws do not make us safe! Torture does not gleam reliable information...Its funny how our Police are able to extract information from guilty men and some of them were terrorist..Not once did they have to resort to torture...Our police were smart enough to know, torture is against our laws and it would only undermine their ability to try prisoners in a court of law... Hello????
______________________________________________________
9/11 was hatched on Clinton's watch and took years to plan. Osama could have been captured or killed on Clinton's watch but Clinton refused to act. The first World Trade Center bombing was treated as a criminal case by Clinton. No follow up. The USS COLE was never avenged by Clinton. Who's talking about torture. We are talking about threatening gestures. Any hands or fingers cut off. Burning with cigarettes. Eye gouging, heads rolling. No we are talking about threats and scare tactics that brought results that saved American lives. You are a naive person to think that threats are not used by the police as well but police work is to prepare a criminal case, CIA work is to save lives of thousands. If we had intel about 9/11 as we should have. If the FBI had done their job then maybe just maybe it could have been avoided. The first thing any dictator does when they dethrone their predecessor is to put them on trial. This wag the dog trick of Obama who said he didn't want to do exactly what he is doing is a sham, a mockery and a travesty.

When the bomb is about to go off in some major city and the man in front of the CIA agents knows when and where, you can be there to tell him not to use threats against his family members to get the information needed to stop the killing of millions. Until then, Obama is more interested in the welfare of the mutts at GITMO than our protectors.

Posted by: mharwick | August 25, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Bill Clinton's sexual dalliance, that consumed a full two years of his eight years in office, led to a partisan witch hunt, that was seeking to remove from office a capable but flawed man with a huge sexual appetite. George and Dick, on the other hand, were shocked out of their dream world when financiers died on their watch on a sunny day in September, 2001. They compensated by violating their oaths of office and breaking many Federal laws and treaty obligations. Digging into that cesspool is NOT a partisan witch hunt, altho it may redound to the negative as far as Republicans go. Just because somebody is elected to high office doesn't give them the right (or obligation as Dick Cheney would opine) to violate the rules of the game.

Posted by: BlueTwo1 | August 25, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

What happened to my comments?

Posted by: alert11 | August 25, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

I was watching An Officer and Gentleman the other night and Richard Gere was really given a rough time by Lou Gosset Jr. I mean he was hosed in the face while running in place, made to put his face in the water while doing push-ups. This might warrant some investigation if the script was written based on some real life experiences. Maybe there are some old gunnery sergeants we can go after. Please keep up the insanity lefty loons. You will be swept out to sea in 2010.

Posted by: restonhoops | August 25, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

It's amazing how it's OK to torture people, cheat on your wife, run up uncontrolled deficits, or be otherwise degenerate, as long as you're a republican.

Posted by: jeffc6578 | August 25, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse


Let me get this straight,

First, they want to release the 9/11 terrorists who conspired to kill 3,000 Americans in NY and DC from Gitmo and bring them to the US all lawyered up.

Then, they want to send our intel and counter-terrorism officials to prison.

Frickin' Amazing!

Posted by: chicago77

///////////////////////////////

Yeah, part of the problem is that you've got your facts all f-cked up from word one.

If you get your facts straight first, it'll make more sense, genius.

Not amazing; obvious.

Posted by: JPRS | August 25, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

silencedogoodreturns wrote:

Please, leftists, I beg you to educate this wayward conservative. What US law was broken when loud music or other noises (drills?) were played against detainees? What US law was broken when the terrorists (NOT armed combatants under Geneva Convention protection) were sleep deprived? Please provide the reference that states these are "torture."

I'll wait right here for your answer.

I suspect I"ll be waiting a looooonggg time.
-------
The US signed onto a document you may have heard of. It's called The Geneva Conventions. By signing the conventions the US agreed to accept that treaty as a binding legal agreement. We made a contract with the other signers, a legally binding contract.

I guess that wait wasn't as long as you thought it might be...

Posted by: mtnmanvt | August 25, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

republicons favor amnesty for criminals.

republicons are soft on crime.

republicons hate American law.

republicons do not think our Constituion is valid.

republicons hate American values.

Period. No other way to interpret their reaction to this.

Posted by: John1263 | August 25, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

mpatero wrote:

Where do you guys find this garbage? And why do I need to be afraid? Are you going to come and hurt me?

___________________________________________
If your a card carrying Republican you should be afraid for the destruction of your party and the embarrassment. If you engaged in the torture or cover up, then that would be criminal. Bottom line, what do they have to hide? Was the CIA running a rogue or sanctioned operation? What about the stories that innocent, non-terrorist individuals were caught up in this and also tortured? For Bush and Cheney, this was all part of the package. Extraordinary rendition, illegal wiretapping, GITMO, it goes on and on. It's doing this that has hurt Ameircan National Security. The stories about America torturing people and Abu Ghraib, broadcast around the world, were the single most effective Al Quaeda recruiting tool ever devised. Any informatin really gathered during torture sessions does not hold a candle to the victory Al Quaeda received when America gave up her moral principals.


Posted by: magnifco1000 | August 25, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

what we are seeing is the beginning of the election 2010 show the dems are setting up...
they can't win if they don't bring up President Bush...
watch for trials near election day next year of Bush officials...

Posted by: DwightCollins | August 25, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

If you think MORE than 18,000 won't die under your STOOGES SOCIALIZED WEATLHCARE GENOCIDE PLAN, YOU BETTER GUESS AGAIN ! 18000 are not dying for lack of AVAILABLE health care. THAT IS A BALD FACED LIE ! They may die because they don't seek help but you can't FIX stupid people that don't take the time and effort to get care . Thousands of people jump our fences everyday to get treated here.

Posted by: noHUCKABEEnoVOTE | August 25, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Naturally senior Republican politicians are foaming at the mouth about this. First of all, they react that way to almost anything; it seems to be the only reaction they have anymore. But mainly, they have encouraged, enabled, and covered up the illegal activity which will now be investigated. That means many of them are implicated as well. Let the search for the guilty begin: there are a lot of them in Washington and it is now their time to listen to somebody else make accusations for a change.

Posted by: larry9 | August 25, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

If Bush/Cheney had nothing to hide and are convinced they followed the letter of the law then they should welcome this investigation. By them speaking out it makes them look even more guiltier than we know they are.........

Posted by: rharring | August 25, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

The Thug republicans and other conservatives must have no respect for the rule of law. They think good leadership keeping silent when you do wrong. In other words they are nothing less than a bunch of legal Mafioso’s.

Posted by: hansenthered | August 25, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

And we were brought to this

BECAUSE BUSH AND CHENEY

IGNORED THE INTELLIGENCE WARNINGS.

Think of all that has followed, and will follow.

The Ruination of America.

How do the republican hacks here get the
guts to scream now?

Posted by: whistling | August 25, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

If Bush/Cheney had nothing to hide and are convinced they followed the letter of the law then they should welcome this investigation. By them speaking out it makes them look even more guiltier than we know they are.........

=====================================

Not necessarily, I think the concern is more over items being made public too soon that should be kept from al Qaeda and other terrorists throughout the world. I think though that Cheney himself has been overly forward here. And though I don't particularly like Dick Cheney one bit (see above post), it is kind of gutsy that he has been so forward with his role in all this.

Posted by: chrojo01 | August 25, 2009 6:32 PM | Report abuse

A final point, I think these attempts on either side of this issue to point blame for 9/11 on the Clinton Administration or the Bush Administration are speculative and just plain tactless.

Posted by: chrojo01 | August 25, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Quote:
To a Democrat, a terrorist is just another soon-to-be friend on Facebook.
Posted by: luca_20009
--------------------------------------------
To a Republican, the rule of law and the constitution only apply to Democrats. Patriotism is something used to cover your tracks. Fear and smear are the main game and the ends justifies the means, even if it means killing innocent people to get what you want.

Posted by: ScottFromOz | August 25, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

I'll tell ya what made me leave the Rep party was the fact that they were not paying atentention in our own back yard !!!! If the Bush Administration had been doing it's job in the DEPT OF JUSTICE... Obama would have never been qualified to be in the SENATE much less the WHITE HOUSE ! He wouldn't qualify for a job at the POST OFFICE ...Maybe now they can see that they should have protected the country from WHITE COLLAR CRIMES AND ECONOMIC TERROR !!!!

Posted by: noHUCKABEEnoVOTE | August 25, 2009 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Islamist terrorists who killed 3,000 Americans in NY and are nothing more than mercenaries.

They participate in a campaign of terror on the promise by their zealot fanatic clerics of personal gain; that being a ticket to the afterlife and 72 virgins as remuneration for martyrdom.

As such, the Geneva Conventions are very specific about mercenaries who participate in armed conflict.


Art 47. Mercenaries

1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.

2. A mercenary is any person who:

(a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
(b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
(c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
(d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
(e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
(f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

Posted by: chicago77 | August 25, 2009 6:37 PM | Report abuse

"There is nothing good that can come from this - we already know President Bush and VP Cheney authorized the use of torture, have admitted it and maintain they did it for our national safety. Whether you believe it or not, what is to be gained from investigating this? The only outcome will be to diminish the power of the President."
___________________________________________________

The truth will set you free...beside the little fact, we will be abiding by our own Constitution! It will diminish the power of one President, Bush and his Vice President Cheney...According to you we should not hold anyone accountable for there actions, they all could use the excuse that we were keeping the country safe...Such BS! If Bush was so set in keeping us safe, then why did he allow this country to be attacked in the first place hummmm?

Go read the 9/11 commission 9/11 Probers Say Agencies Failed to Heed Attack Signs September 19, 2002

"...the war on terrorism is a smokescreen and that the US knew in advance about the September 11 attack on New York but, for strategic reasons, chose not to act on the warnings."

"CBS reporter David Martin revealed that weeks before the attacks, the CIA had warned Bush personally of Osama Bin Ladens intent to use hijacked planes as missiles. That followed the damaging exposure by The Associated Presses John Solomon of a pre-9/11 FBI memo from an officer in Phoenix warning of suspicious Middle Eastern men training at flight schools a warning that went unheeded."

"The committee managed, 'inadvertently,' it says, to get some contents of a key briefing Bush received in August 2001. It included 'FBI judgments about patterns of activity consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks; as well as information acquired in May 2001 that indicated a group of Bin Ladin supporters was planning attacks in the United States with explosives."

Right Bush kept us safe alright! she said sarcastically!

Posted by: nallcando | August 25, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

We are a country rule by law. No one is above the law, not the president, not the vice-president. Bush and Cheney are the litmus test. America's future hangs in the balance if our country fails this test.

Posted by: Mickey2 | August 25, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

The Republican Party has denigrated itself into a hate group that used to be called the Ku Klux Klan some 60 years ago. Back then it committed hate crimes against humanity aimed principally at Blacks and Jews, and then covered them up. These crimes against humanity were considered “totally acceptable” back them. NAACP and JDL finally straightened them out, at great cost to our country. It cost president John F. Kennedy his life. The Republican Party is still a hate group; however, its targets of hate are more “politically correct”: Muslims. It is considered politically un-cool to attack Blacks and Jews today, but Muslims are fair game. This is just another example of the Republicans attempting to cover up more of their hate crimes against humanity.

I am a Vietnam vet. I considered the Geneva conventions to be "gospel". They were my insurance protection against having what US is doing to Muslims being done to me had I became a prisoner of war. The US has, in fact, revoked our insurance policy against POW torture in the future.

Should we expect anything else from Republicans?

Posted by: MrZ2 | August 25, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

It is amazing that a fringe party of losers called Republicans took the bags off their heads and spoke more nonsense. A
'witch hunt,' one of their party's specialties, is not happening in this new investigation. Rather, it is slightly cracking the surface of severe war crimes and human rights abuses that knowingly occured during the Bush regime. For the Republicans to shout 'witch hunt,' is like the mob denouncing a new crime bill. Rev. Bookburn - Radio Volta

Posted by: revbookburn | August 25, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

When did the GOP lose all honor?

Prosecuting people who tortured in the name of America is not a witch hunt. They broke the law, and they need to be held accountable.

Posted by: ram_lopez | August 25, 2009 6:42 PM | Report abuse

no way! the republicans dont like the fact that the democrats want to hold people from their party responsible for their illegal actions?!?! UNBELIEVABLE! what is this country coming too!?!

Posted by: bryangirkins | August 25, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Look at the bastards squirm!

just the idea that the light of day might touch the Republican evildoers is driving them into a frenzy!

It can't be allowed! Our country will be destroyed!

HAR HAR HAR

Posted by: jamesbatic | August 25, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

your a card carrying Republican you should be afraid for the destruction of your party and the embarrassment. If you engaged in the torture or cover up, then that would be criminal. Bottom line, what do they have to hide? Was the CIA running a rogue or sanctioned operation? What about the stories that innocent, non-terrorist individuals were caught up in this and also tortured?
--------------

Why do they assume the CIA is on their side?

Because a FEW of its memebers sanctioned torture?

Do you really think Hayden and Panetta, oh, even Obama, hold all the cards?

Real life doesn't work that way, you should know that...

See?

The cards can turn, and all of a sudden your big mouth works against you.

Now what? Gonna call the ACLU? It's your best bet, no fooling.

Gonna depend on Rush to defend you?

He' a moron.

Kooks don't win wars, sorry, bottom line.

Posted by: thegreatpotatospamof2003 | August 25, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

This is further evidence that Republicans are all for a lack of accountability.

Posted by: brwntrt | August 25, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

"Obama can and has fouled up the economy"

- wow, i would hate to hear what this guy has to say about what bush did to it!

"...and we will survive."

- of course we will. if we survived the bush/cheney era, we can pretty much survive anything...except maybe global warming.

Posted by: bryangirkins | August 25, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Cheney is getting nervous. Pretty soon someone will release the tapes of the missile that hit the Pentagon. Then the question will really start.

Where was the airline wreckage at the Pentagon? There was none because an Airliner didn't hit the Pentagon. No evidence of an airliner. No fuselage, no luggage, no people. Did it all evaporate?

Well, Dick?

Posted by: glacy3 | August 25, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Art 47. Mercenaries

1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.

2. A mercenary is any person who:

(a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
(b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
(c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
(d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
(e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
(f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

________________________________________________

Al Qaeda is not considered Mercenaries the Caught ones are considered Prisoners of War.. they are terrorist!!! and they do come under the same rules of the Geneva Convention, and they do come under the rules of International law and they do come under the rules of our Constitutional Laws.....Most of the men Bush and his corrupt henchmen tortured, were not guilty of anything, but they were prisoners of War and warrant the same protections of Prisoners of War...They were stated and called Prisoners of War!!!! Not once have they been called Mercenaries!!!! No we leave that name to BLACKWATER, THEY ARE true MERCENARIES, AND CALL THEMSELVES THAT!

Posted by: nallcando | August 25, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

The hypocrisy is too rich. Republicans state that "..the true cost of this endeavor will ultimately be borne by the American people, who rely on the intelligence community, operating without distraction, to protect them from the many threats, known and unknown, that our country faces in this post-9/11 world."

The American people are now bearing the gargantuan cost of the mismanaged and pointless Iraqui war led by a REPUBLICAN WHITE HOUSE and supported by a REPUBLICAN-LED CONGRESS. Indeed, under the Bush administration, the intelligence community operations were all but without distraction and its integrity was compromised to the point where findings were twisted and suppressed to facilitate a self-serving political agenda.

Posted by: democracy_in_action | August 25, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

to parade this circus PUBLICLY

in time of WAR with AlQaeda

is..........

Posted by: JaxMax | August 25, 2009 4:06 PM
-------------------------------------------
Is ... what makes us better than them.

It's what makes this country great, despite its faults.

Posted by: jprice2 | August 25, 2009 6:52 PM | Report abuse

"Cheney is getting nervous. Pretty soon someone will release the tapes of the missile that hit the Pentagon. Then the question will really start. "

===========================================
I don't think Cheney is the least bit unnerved about this. I think that he is daring them to prosecute him. Can you imagine? A complete public forum for himself every day. It will be a total media circus. I seriously don't think he cares if he's convicted - and if you actually do the digging into our laws and international law, there are a myriad of ways that he can mount a strong defense that creates doubt of his guilt. I think he is begging for a public trial.

Posted by: chrojo01 | August 25, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse


The Republicans are a bunch of crooks, and they don't want any kind of investigation of anything.

Not so much because the CIA did anything wrong, it's just any investigation period that scares them.


After all, look where then ended up when they investigated Clinton, peeking through windows - investigating what Clinton was doing with his d__k.

You never know what might come out, and THAT is what Republicans fear.

We know they're corrupt. Everybody in the world called the the Bush Administration the most corrupt in history.

Sometimes you look for one thing, and find so much more!

Posted by: lindalovejones | August 25, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

The hypocrisy of the Republicans posting here is as stunning as that of the Republicans in Congress. Simply amazing. They run their lying mouths for years about rule of law, but when confronted by actual rule of law, they run and whine like scared little babies. Typical of Republican behavior but not much of an example for America. As the Republican Party slowly sinks under the weight of its own hubris, let’s all have a beer and sit back and watch it. Enjoy the show! I know I will.

Posted by: ElectricBill | August 25, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Sadly, it is going to take the detonation of a nuclear or biological weapon by Jihadist terrorists to wake the US electorate up.

Perhaps then they will elect officials who will not bankrupt the country on the best healthcare in the world for the 1 in 10 people who have not earned it. Look at the lessons the British have learned: There is infinite demand for healthcare when it is free. In fact the more medical science advances the faster demand for medical care grows.

Perhaps then the US electorate will vote only for politicians who are prepared to spend money on defending the Union.

What Barry Hussein is doing to the CIA is effectively treason. The US electorate just put a gun to their children's heads.

This just goes to demonstrate that Americans are not the cleverest people in the world.

'Yes we can' (shoot ourselves in both feet). How pathetic.

Do you Democrats seriously think Jihadists are going to treat you any better? You just look weak to them, and defeated.

I am now taking bets on which US city will be hit next.

Posted by: Zened | August 25, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

As long as the defense contractors keep getting their money everything will be all right. The sun will come up tomorrow and maybe some scapegoats will get some prison time.

Posted by: hc2254 | August 25, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

We tried Republicans at Nuremberg.

Posted by: medogsbstfrnd | August 25, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Ok..Mr. Bigfoot.

I read what you posted at 4:19 pm.

I agree.

HOWEVER, what good will it do?

I think the CIA should use every means necessary to obtain intelligence and save american lives. This is an imperfect system.

I never agreed with Bush or his policy makers but I WILL agree that the CIA did what was necessary.

Why would anyone stick up for Arabs, radicals, or anyone who wants to kill americans by any means necessary?? Why stick up for them? To be just? UH...why?

I think the CIA should be accountable but also allowed some leverage in terms of intelligence gathering.

Do you ACTUALLY think we gain our intelligence, in terms of serious radicalized individuals, by being nice to them in interrogation rooms?

The CIA should have the power to utilize every means necessary to obtain that information, IF...IF...IF..it saves lives.

Also...i must say...we will NEVER know..whether IF IF IF it saves lives...nor should we

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse


"Cry me a river for these friggin terrorists. The only ones who feel sorry for them are other terrorists and Democrats"

Posted by: vrbjunk | August 25, 2009 5:13 PM

Well said! Maybe they will campaign for them in the next election when they get arrive here from Gitmo.

Posted by: chicago77 | August 25, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Holder must go.

Posted by: thebump | August 25, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

It is not a BJ so of course they will denounce it.

Posted by: dorklord | August 25, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

No question. Eric Holder in a tight, crowded race is officially the head buffoon of the Obama administration.

Posted by: hz9604 | August 25, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

"Cry me a river for these friggin terrorists. The only ones who feel sorry for them are other terrorists and Democrats"

Posted by: vrbjunk | August 25, 2009 5:13 PM

TOTALLY AGREE!!! And I AM A DEMOCRAT!

So, i kinda debunk that but I agree nonetheless.

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 7:00 PM | Report abuse

Wow, this is almost as informative as TV. No wonder I'm ditching both.


...


Posted by: treetopflyer | August 25, 2009 7:00 PM | Report abuse

JUSTICE

Posted by: dudh | August 25, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans were the first to stand up and say "Were tough on crime" and they were jumping in their seats to impeach Clinton.

Now that THEY are being looked at for the Bush atrocities. Who did in fact break the law they don't want anybody to remember it was THEM who joined Bush in breaking the law!!!

Cry babies!!!

YOU ARE WEAK ON CRIME NOW THAT IT'S YOU BEING CHARGED!!!!


TRAITORS!!!!

Posted by: imZandor | August 25, 2009 7:03 PM | Report abuse

I love how the Demotards are attacking the Republicans on this one. It wont be long before there will be another full scale attack on the US by al Quida. And then the Demotards will try to point the finger once again at the CIA.

Do you all forget that Clinton had the chance to take Osama down, but was too afraid. And that Clinton didn't think there was a need for a CIA anymore, so cut the agency's budget. So lets see what the fallout will be as a result of this. And whether you Dems like it or not, this is a witch hunt. Didn't Bush already appoint someone to look into this? Dont you think they would have found any wrong doing at that point?

So I wonder who is really pushing for this? Obama, or Pelosi? I am going to say Pelosi, expecially since she was caught lieing about what she knew about the tortures going on. Dont let her fool you, she is driving this ship now. And I have no doubt there will be a few folks from the CIA that will go to jail for this. And that the "Justice Dept" will make sure they find all of the evidence they need. I will compare it to the intelligence that Bush used to justify his war on Iraq.

It is too bad that the Dems need to do this. They are severly crippling the US by attacking the CIA. Our country will only be seen as a weaker nation.

Thanks Dems, you have successfully taken another GIANT step toward the descruction of the USA.

Posted by: sanmateo1850 | August 25, 2009 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Excerpt from Geneva Conventions Art 47

"2. A mercenary is any person who:

(a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
(b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
(c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict"


By definition;

Al-Qaeda terrorists who acted upon a promise by radical islamist clerics of remuneration; an afterlife and 72 virgins, to kill and murder Americans and others are by definition mercenaries, who are not eligible for POW status.

Posted by: chicago77 | August 25, 2009 7:05 PM | Report abuse

ALSO...fyi

When was the last time YOU saw a video with an AMERICAN MILITARY personnel beheading or torturing someone IN THEIR WAYS?

UH HELLO!! We don't stoop to that level...US MILITARY JUST RESPONDS!!

I will NOT agree with people who disagree with me until I SEE a VIDEO which shows american military officers, personnel, beheading or whatever to a radicalized muslim.

Once we do that..i MAY change my views.

Until then...let justice be done unto them.

I am a democrat but don't like how radicalized muslims treat their own kind and us.

Afghanistan would be a LOT better if BUSHY didn't want IRAQ so bad. Why oh why did he have to F up so bad

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Hunt? Who has to hunt? We already know who the suspects are.

Posted by: Frazil | August 25, 2009 7:07 PM | Report abuse

Forget Rush Limbaugh,forget the Tea party.Its all oligarchical propaganda of whom Stalin would be proud.Be a REAL patroit and target the families of rich republicans.Believe me,they will get the message.

Posted by: hyroller56 | August 25, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

Foul, ignorant PIGS! Anyone who defends the Cheney/Bush administration crimes are, themselves, contemptible, foolish human beings. PIGS!

May every single member if the base, illegal and FAILED previous administration go on trial for their crimes. May they go to jail for the rest of their lives. Even that won't begin to repay the country for their illegal, disastrous, evil war, for their lies to start that war, for the tens of thousands of souls who died as a result of that war, and for the FAILURE for all that to do anything but slander America all around the world and bring our country to the brink of bankruptcy.

We managed, for our entire 200 plus years, to engage in wars and desperate political battles without torturing anyone. We tried and convicted our own military for waterboarding prisoners in WWII.

WE DO NOT TORTURE. Only Cheney, Bush, their cabinet, their CIA and their private, Christian militia - Blackwater/Xe. Only they torture. PIGS!

Posted by: Casey1 | August 25, 2009 7:13 PM | Report abuse

There the republicans go again, trying to pray on the fears of Main Street. Every time someone "launches an investigation" into the many criminal acts of the Bush-Cheney nightmare, the nations security is at risk. Such bull...t, I am so sick of their lies. The masters of deceit and manipulation are long overdue for their comeupance. Let the truth come out, and those responsible for these atrosities held accountable.

Posted by: jdwilliams | August 25, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse


"Cry me a river for these friggin terrorists. The only ones who feel sorry for them are other terrorists and Democrats"

Posted by: vrbjunk | August 25, 2009 5:13 PM

Well said! Maybe they will campaign for them in the next election when they get arrive here from Gitmo.

Posted by: chicago77 | August 25, 2009 6:57 PM |

"Cry me a river for these friggin terrorists. The only ones who feel sorry for them are other terrorists and Democrats"

Posted by: vrbjunk | August 25, 2009 5:13 PM

TOTALLY AGREE!!! And I AM A DEMOCRAT!

So, i kinda debunk that but I agree nonetheless.

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 7:00 PM

The leftists are the ones who side with the Gitmo terrorist and against dedicated officials trying to stop their attacks

There is a big difference between Independents, Republicans, moderate Democrats, Libertarians, the apolitical and
The far left-wing radical Democrats who are now shoving everything, including the kitchen sink down our collective throats.

Posted by: chicago77 | August 25, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Those that have already decided the CIA are guilty, but in the same breath clamor for justice and the American way... well, the American way includes being considered innocent until proven guilty. Also, just because the person appointed is called a prosecutor, this is not yet, and it may not ever be, a prosecution. This is an investigation.

Those on the left who choose to dance around the fires of election success taunting the right with your "we won!", you're no better than the becksters and the birthers. You've chosen provocation over substance. When the right-wing says this is about vengeance, they are talking about you guys.

I believe it was the right decision to appoint someone to investigate this. At the very least it needs to be known what happened. If the investigation leads nowhere and no charges are filed, I'll be ok with that. If the investigation goes somewhere and charges are necessary, I sincerely hope that they are distributed, when appropriate, up the chain of command.

Those of you who object solely because you think this somehow helps Obama, I don't think you get it. Holder did this because he felt obligated to, despite, not as a result of, Obama's agenda.

Posted by: lostinthemiddle | August 25, 2009 7:16 PM | Report abuse

Republicans are idiots. Who gives a good eff about what they think?

Posted by: GeorgHerbet | August 25, 2009 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Hey, vigor...
The real torture exists in the everyday lives of the survivors of the Americans murdered by the extremist element on 9/11. How about the families and friends of our military heroes who gave their lives defending your right to express your dispicable opinions. I love you liberals...every time you post this garbage it reminds me how great it will be listening to you shriek when we take back the congressional majority and the White House. Try feeling sorry for some American casualties in this war...for a change, and be glad there are people willing to do the dirty deeds it takes to preserve and protect all of us. Wake up and grow up!

Posted by: ddnfla | August 25, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

None of the investigation will mean anything unless those responsible are convicted and sent to prison.


Posted by: demtse | August 25, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

We need a clarification on "Witch Hunt". Coming from republicans it can mean an actual hunt for real witches.

Posted by: Fate1 | August 25, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse


"Republicans are idiots. Who gives a good eff about what they think?
Posted by: GeorgHerbet | August 25, 2009 7:17 PM"

Or the rest of the American people for that matter right?

Posted by: chicago77 | August 25, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse

My definition of inhumane torture is another three years of Oboobma.

Posted by: thebump | August 25, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

of course this is just politics as usual from the right. similar to how kennedy all of a sudden wants to change the rules for replacing a sitting sen in mass from an emergency election to a appointment now that a dem is in the gov's mansion rather then romney. it is all self interest for all of these guys. sickening, but predictable and at this point water off a duck's back.

Posted by: funkey | August 25, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

CIA should be able to utilize any means necessary to obtain information from radicalized muslims.

I apologize but I dont side with Repubs or Democrats.

I believe in treating those type of people how they would treat us.

They are NOT POW's..they are fundamentalists pushing a cause that desires to bring chaos and anarchy into moderate arab states.

Additionally, they radicalized muslims want to pursue any means to attack and inflict damage upon american and western interests.

And you guys who wanna stick up for them...want to because....??????????

P.S. I am not a Repub or Democrat...just a realist in terms of national security.

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Got to take the attention off the mess the democrats have made of health care, what a great tactic!!

Posted by: kathymac1 | August 25, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse

sanmateo1850:
We're eighteen days away from the eigth anniversary of 9/11, the attack on the United States that DID happen. The one that ordinary, non criminal investigation dug up and tried to get the Bush White House interested enough in to stop it. The one we learned about by strictly legal means like listening to flight instructors talking about Arab students who only wanted to learn how to fly, not take off and land.

Barack is reluctant to put his imprimature on these investigations because they have a life of their own, and when those undead investigations gobble up George Bush and Dick Cheney and spit them out into jail, Barack, and Pelosi, and Ried will be just observers of the denoument of a quite horrible era in the American presidency, the one that started with Watergate, passed through the utter corruption of the Reagan and Bush Presidencies, and ended with the indictment, trial, and imprisonment of George W Bush and Dick Cheney. Because his was as corrupt an administration as Reagan's, (go count the number of convicted and jailed cabinet level Reaganite officials, because george had an order of magnitude more) The end of all the investigations coming out of this night of the living dead scandals will be the death by mortification of the Republican party.

Of COURSE they are against these investigations. Their behinds are the ones about to be behind bars.
"Don't investigate ME, don't you have some real crooks to arrest?"

Investigate. Indict. Try. Convict. Jail. Throw away the key. And DON'T let any Scots Magistrates get into the act.

Posted by: ceflynline | August 25, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Under Bush, we were all "terrorists," if we did not support the Iraq war. As Bush said, "you are either with us or with them." But the bottom line is this, what did the torture accomplish? Just a bunch of made up stories and a big black eye for America? It doesn't seem it was worth it at all, does it? Except perhaps for those who believed by torturing we were "paying back" for 911. America was attacked so somebody has to pay! See them squirm when water boarded! Getting them back, and having fun too! Bush and you Repub. torture supporters, your some sick puppies!

Posted by: magnifco1000 | August 25, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

"Cry me a river for these friggin terrorists. The only ones who feel sorry for them are other terrorists and Democrats"
Posted by: vrbjunk | August 25, 2009 5:13 PM

No one is crying for the terrorists. But we are a nation of laws. Do we toss the laws when the enemy is very bad? Do we stop being Americans to fight bad people? Do we not discipline soldiers when they break our laws just because they are fighting on our side? Should we have let the Nazis go free because they were fighting for their country? Or should we have put them on trial for breaking the laws of war? And if we do not bring those who violated the law to justice what does that say about America and what does that say to the CIA the next time someone decides to do a mock execution or pull out a drill, or worse?

Posted by: Fate1 | August 25, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

If Al Qaeda can murder more than 3,000 innocent American civilians and not think twice about having their pawns take their own lives in the process in the name of global jihad, I think our leaders after 9/11 were obliged to pursue them through any method within international law. When we capture Al Qaeda terrorists, we are not capturing rank and file soldiers who are afforded the same rights as lawful prisoners of war. I believe the Article 47 Geneva Conventions description for mercenaries is an apt one for unlawful enemy combatants.

And though I believe Cheney et.al crossed the line early on, it was defensible because they had the liberty of the American people in mind and the continuity of the American government. Remember, after 9/11, we faced an existential threat??? When faced with existential threats, our leaders must work carefully to balance security and liberty. Sometimes, this can be a very messy and evolutionary process.

I think there are a lot of legal defenses that Cheney et.al can use that will cast a lot of doubt on any prosecutions. My prediction would be full acquittals if anyone is actually prosecuted. Their early methods were crude, but we have no duty to afford any Constitutional protections to non-citizens who are obviously caught with Al Qaeda.

Again, if Obama et.al are so interested in our American "values", why don't they reform certain portions of the Patriot Act that apply to ordinary law-abiding American citizens. I'd be impressed with that. I'm totally unimpressed with the decision to move the unlawful enemy combatants to this country and think that they are best dealt with in an alternative justice system outside the Federal district courts. A system much like our own separate military justice system, specifically charged with trying foreign terrorists.

Posted by: chrojo01 | August 25, 2009 7:31 PM | Report abuse

"Only Cheney, Bush, their cabinet, their CIA and their private, Christian militia - Blackwater/Xe. Only they torture. PIGS!
Posted by: Casey1 | August 25, 2009 7:13 PM"

Daniel Pearl wasn't tortured or beheaded by ANY Americans pal....
neither were the thousands tortured and killed by Al-Qaeda and other terror groups.

Before you tar and smear our nation read this timeline of real terror.

http://www.army.mil/terrorism/1989-1980/index.html


If you want to remember what REAL terror is and how honorable our people are, watch this video:

http://www.army.mil/terrorism/2006-2000/sept11.html

Posted by: chicago77 | August 25, 2009 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Republicans have enough time shouting out at venues proclaiming "your health I don't care". But practice makes perfect. Now they want to shout at Eric Holder.

Along with Cheney, republicans, gritting and grinding their teeth, dentists should be happy to treat them.

Posted by: mouli_7982 | August 25, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

"Got to take the attention off the mess the democrats have made of health care, what a great tactic!!
Posted by: kathymac1 | August 25, 2009 7:25 PM"

It's not a good tactic at all, the American people see right through it.

They are only adding to the growing list of reasons to vote them out of Congress next year.

Posted by: chicago77 | August 25, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

DUH!! Cheney ordered it; Bush approved it; and the REPUGS worshiped at their alter!!! But, I can see their concerns about investigating abuses of America's HONOR!

Posted by: jamstolba | August 25, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Pelosi needs cover... damn the nation's security.

Posted by: JoeTH | August 25, 2009 7:39 PM | Report abuse

WWWhhhhhaaaaaaaa.....call these thug republicans a wwhhaammmbulance.... wwwhhaaaaaa.. what a load of crap..the guys who sent the letter should also be investigated and prosecuted Holder....whine...whine...whine....

Posted by: rbaldwin2 | August 25, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

All I have to say is this....

If the CIA kills, renditions, tortures, or imprisons radical muslims...SO BE IT.

I will NOT stick up for a people that WANTS to inflict harm upon my people.

IF KSM was tortured...SO WHAT...F HIM!!! Do you guys NOT know what HE wanted to do in conjunction with UBL?

IF you guys wanna stick up for radicalists that want to blow themselves up on western targets..SO BE IT.

BUT...YOU guys who defend that and DO NOT defend the CIA will be the first ones CRYING when the radicalists do it again.

CAUSE GUESS WHAT...it will happen again..torture or NO torture.

Read some books...read about the radicalization of islam..read about the imams in Pakistan in madrassas training young kids every day.

Until we "attack" the SOCIAL problems in the middle east, pakistan, afghanistan, isreal and palestine....

We will never win...so...you figure it out

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

republicons are for amnesty.

republicons do not respect the law.

republicons spit on our Constitution

republicons think acting like communist China is good

republicons think using techniques perfected by Stalin and Kim Jung Il is fine.

republicons do not believe in the founding principles of our republic.

Simple.

Just like health care.

republicons do not think you and I deserve to go to the doctor.

republicons do not think we should better price for prescriptions.

republicons think we should allow insurance companies to drive us as individuals and a nation into bankruptcy.

republicons think it is ok to deny sick people and children to be denied insurance.

Posted by: John1263 | August 25, 2009 7:43 PM | Report abuse

On 9-11 we were attacked by criminal elements within our own society, namely Cheney/Bush/CIA/Blackwater and others in the employ of Wall St.
The CIA has always been on the wrong side of the law. It was started by Hitler financiers in 47 and is an unConstitional branch of government as it's budget is secret, which is a violation of the Constitution.
The CIA only works on behalf of big biz and to that extent has murdered, overthrown democracies, tortured the innocent and broken every tenant of decent humanity.
There can be no secrecy in a democracy.
We the people, demand to know the truth.
All of it. Those who say we should do evil in dark shadows due to the nature of 'enemies' we may face are wrong. We become no better than those we claim oppose us. And in fact, much of the resistance or hatred towards the US around the world is for this mass murdering-steal everything-and then lie about it cabal.
We need to prosecute all top levels at the Bush WH, the CIA, Justice, NSA and DoD.
The CIA/NSA needs to be closed. They have no role in an enlightened democracy.
The rising level of spittle emitting from Cheney's blow hole is directly proportional to his rising fear of being held acountable for the war criminal-mass murdering, thieving, lieing, manipulative, arrogent, hateful disgrace upon world history. Peace.

Posted by: greenispeace | August 25, 2009 7:43 PM | Report abuse

The point is not that other countries torture or treat prisoners worse then we do. Of course, many do. But the point is we have now stepped over the line. We have lost our "innocence" in the eyes of the World and what America was meant to stand for. The terrorists have won at least a partial victory. You think some of them didn't relish the thought of being tortured even? Just to know America was just like them (the terrorists) was a victory. And we gave that to Al Quaeda. It was not worth the price of giving up the reputation and honor of America. Not worth it at all.

Posted by: magnifco1000 | August 25, 2009 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Don't you mean 7 1/2 years of
obama

Posted by: John1263 | August 25, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

"All I have to say is this....

I will NOT stick up for a people that WANTS to inflict harm upon my people.

IF you guys wanna stick up for radicalists that want to blow themselves up on western targets..SO BE IT.

BUT...YOU guys who defend that and DO NOT defend the CIA will be the first ones CRYING when the radicalists do it again.

CAUSE GUESS WHAT...it will happen again.

Read some books...read about the radicalization of islam..read about the imams in Pakistan in madrassas training young kids every day..."

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 7:40 PM

You just spoke for the VAST majority of Americans!

Posted by: chicago77 | August 25, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW IN THE USA. BUSH JR. & THE DICK BETTER NOT HAVE VIOLATED THEIR OATH OF OFFICE EITHER. THE HISTORY BOOK WILL BE OF GREAT INTEREST.

Posted by: usapdx | August 25, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse


"On 9-11 we were attacked by criminal elements within our own society, namely Cheney/Bush/CIA/Blackwater and others Posted by: greenispeace | August 25, 2009 7:43 PM"

This is typical of the insulting garbage from the radical leftists.

Go take your meds pal!

Posted by: chicago77 | August 25, 2009 7:52 PM | Report abuse

All I have to say is this....

If the CIA kills, renditions, tortures, or imprisons radical muslims...SO BE IT.

I will NOT stick up for a people that WANTS to inflict harm upon my people.

IF KSM was tortured...SO WHAT...F HIM!!! Do you guys NOT know what HE wanted to do in conjunction with UBL?

IF you guys wanna stick up for radicalists that want to blow themselves up on western targets..SO BE IT.

BUT...YOU guys who defend that and DO NOT defend the CIA will be the first ones CRYING when the radicalists do it again.

CAUSE GUESS WHAT...it will happen again..torture or NO torture.

Read some books...read about the radicalization of islam..read about the imams in Pakistan in madrassas training young kids every day.

Until we "attack" the SOCIAL problems in the middle east, pakistan, afghanistan, isreal and palestine....

We will never win...so...you figure it out
==

Ok I see part of your point. We have to be nasty and we have to go after them, 110% at all times. I believe that we can be hard and just. The problem is that when we use absolutes to define action and almost anything goes when using that type of logic. I’m not talking about some blood crazed soldier who just saw half his squad killed offing a guy trying to throw down his machine gun at the last second. When you plan and operate in the manner alleged that is line we must not cross, as a civilization. When we do, we need to remember that we are a civilized nation with respect for rule of law and hold those that violated our law accountable. Otherwise, we cheapen what we stand for, what our founding father fought for and what our military members die for. I believe we can play fair and kick their a@@es. But you are dead on when you identify the social aspects at the root of our enemy. The problem is that issue is not going to be solved by our own bad actions. If anything it is going to further their radicalization.

Posted by: hansenthered | August 25, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

So, because of all this bickering, I had to go and read the ______ report. One thing I need to addess is the definition for "torture" as dscribed by the Torture Convention, Artcile 1: "any act by which SEVERE pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is INTENTIONALLY inflicted on a person for such puposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing hin for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed,..."

I think the key thing that needs to be defined here is what they mean by SEVERE. Would you say waterboarding is severe? Or putting someone through stress related torture like sleep deprivation? The drill to the face seems a little harsh, but come on, you have to know they are going to do anything because they need to get information from you. What good is a dead terrorist to an interrogator.

I guess I dont find any of these things as being very severe. Maybe I am not as big of a pu$$y as some of you Dems, but considering what these terrorists did, or want to do, I think they are getting off light! Or maybe I have a higher threshold for pain and discomfort. Feels like I have been feeling it more these days with Obama and Pelosi talking about health care.

Posted by: sanmateo1850 | August 25, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

The Obama administration, the most divisive and racist in recent memory, is guaranteeing the destruction of the Democratic party with this political revenge.
They want to prosecute people they don't even have a right to be in the same room with.
Rahm (Rasputin) Emmanuel is behind this witch hunt.
November 02, 2010
November 06, 2010
Days of reckoning.

Posted by: JOBBOSS46 | August 25, 2009 7:58 PM | Report abuse

"It was revealed in late April/early May 2003, that US Secretary of State Colin Powell had written a letter to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld complaining of the indefinite detention and lack of progress on the determination of the status of detainees there. It was also revealed that the detainees included also "one 13-year-old, one 14-year-old, two 15-year-olds, one 16-year-old, an 88-year-old, and a 98-year-old". "

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/guantanamo-bay_detainees.htm

There were around 625 detainees at Guantanamo in 2002. 420 have been released without charge, leaving around 240 there today. 420 released without charge. Take out the number of people who have been found to have returned to the battlefield if you want to, that still leaves a few hundred innocent people. I'm open to suggestions on how a 98 year old man and a few preteens are vital to national security. But until I get some, I think that to support this policy and simultaneously proclaim the virtues of American values is despicable. Oh, and to you idiots who think that us liberals are merely concerned with "hurting the terrorists feelings"; there are terrorists out there who need to be killed, without question. But they're not in Guantanamo. And I'd hardly classify waterboarding, prolonged diapering, sleep depravation, and threatining to murder the children of innocent people as merely hurting feelings. In fact, that's the kind of thing we'd probably label others as terrorists for. Viet Cong, Japanese in WWII, Al Qaeda, etc.

Posted by: raisedlefteyebrow | August 25, 2009 7:59 PM | Report abuse

"On 9-11 we were attacked by criminal elements within our own society, namely Cheney/Bush/CIA/Blackwater and others Posted by: greenispeace "

==================================

Wow, you didn't even have the dignity to say "In the wake of 9/11...", you said, "On 9/11...". The facts are pretty clear that on 9/11, over 3,000 innocent American civilians were murdered by foreign unlawful terrorists. I can understand being all derranged about Bush and Cheney as there are a few things that they did that may have crossed the line, but to equate anything they did with what the murderous jihadists did to the US on 9/11 is tactless and just plain crazy.

Posted by: chrojo01 | August 25, 2009 8:02 PM | Report abuse

You damn republicans here and everywhere else are such bald-faced hypocrites. Everybody knows very well if such lawlessness went on during a Democratic administration you idiots would be screaming for heads to roll. Obama tried to give you a break, but the issue wasn't going to die. Get over it, Part Of No, you're in for another beating, and how you've had it coming.

Posted by: binkynh | August 25, 2009 8:06 PM | Report abuse

TampaBayareaRedskinsfan:

No, the Intelligence community should NOT be able to do whatever it wants. That is Walter Mitty/James Bond fiction.

Especially in HUMINT, where even your friends information is questionable because even your "friends" (Like Chalabi and his associates) willsometimes tell you what you want to hear, and not what you need to know.

We have laws and rules and regulations and Field manuals and TECHINS for a reason. The best intelligence is the intelligence that your enemy must give you in order for him to do whatever it is he intends to do. SIGINT, TECHINT, COMINT, ELINT, RINT, all of the sources of knowledge we get by properly listening to what our enemies are saying to themselves, THAT is where we get the bulk of our usable intelligence. Interrogations and interviews are very nearly worthless because it is very difficult to qualify the source as to his actual knowledge, his real intent, and his driving animus. EVERYTHING he tells you must be discounted until you can qualify and quantify it against some unfalsifiable source. Torture just adds to the motivation of the subject to tell you the kind and mixture of lies and truths that will ruin your operations should you base them on his information. Under torture a subject just tries to figure out what he can tell you that will get you to stop torturing him. Any subject who might actually know something probably has enough strength of will to wait just long enough and then lie to you, or give you a useless truth. While you have to test his testimony, he gets his revenge and plans his further tactics, KNOWING that you wish him evil and intending to return you evil of his own.

The REAL HUMINT experts tried to prevent the torture, but George Walter Mitty Bush and Dick James Bond Cheney over ruled them. As war criminals they await some call to accounting with real dread. Their Dacoits now rush forward to fight off their assailants, but Fu Manchu's minions always lose in the end.

Posted by: ceflynline | August 25, 2009 8:17 PM | Report abuse

OK i just read some previous comments comparing the wars since 2001 to the NAZI's.

ARE YOU GUYS KIDDING!!

I hate to even respond to that ignorant response but i guess i had to.

Comparing the Nazis to America is ridiculous.

Cmon people...we are SMARTER then that

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Praise Obama, hooray for the CIA, Top Hats off to the FBI, Democrats ALL THE WAY!!!!!

Posted by: alert11 | August 25, 2009 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Interesting that when the Republicans investigated President Clinton when he broke the law, it was because he LIED.

When the Democrats investigate President Bush because he broke the law, it's a witch hunt.

At least President Clinton didn't twist the arms of the rest of his administration to take the fall for his foibles.

Posted by: helloisanyoneoutthere | August 25, 2009 8:22 PM | Report abuse

To ceflynline

You must live in a fairy tale world.

Seriously...Did or DID NOT the questioning and interrogation of KSM lead to captures and intelligence?? ANSWER..YES

DID the capture and questioning/interrogation of other militant, radicalized muslims lead to proper arrests? ANSWER....YES.

Did the CIA, due to interrogations and captures inflict a blow, however small or big it may be, upon muslim extremists? ANSWER...YES.

Now I do believe that it has to be corroborated and checked but..HUMINT is the best intelligence and that can only be obtained by interrogations and sources.

So?

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 8:23 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: sanmateo1850 | August 25, 2009 7:56 PM
I guess I dont find any of these things as being very severe. Maybe I am not as big of a pu$$y as some of you Dems, but considering what these terrorists did, or want to do, I think they are getting off light! Or maybe I have a higher threshold for pain and discomfort. Feels like I have been feeling it more these days with Obama and Pelosi talking about health care.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What if, while I was interogating you, I told you that I was going to send someone out to murder your whole family.

I think I'd rather take the drill to the head sanmateo1850. How about you?


Posted by: helloisanyoneoutthere | August 25, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

"watch for trials near election day next year of Bush officials..."

-------

Well, Bush used the "change the terror alert level" scam already.

Look, Omaba cannot be a Muslim, communist, socialist and fascist. Please select one and stick with it.

Posted by: wizard2 | August 25, 2009 8:30 PM | Report abuse

President Bush and Vice President Cheney did some unwise things that needed to be reformed and that we will not see the need to do for a long time or ever again. However, I stand all the way in their defense against those attempting to brand them as "war criminals". The "war criminals" were those who murdered more than 3,000 innocent American civilians on 9/11. Though their methods were crude at the outset, they were facing a very ambiguous situation after 9/11 and had to find more information about Al Qaeda. Foolish, rash, or perhaps excessive at times, perhaps, but they had the future liberty of the American people in mind. George W. Bush is NOT a "war criminal", Al Qaeda Jihadists are the real war criminals for their unprovoked aggression against this country on 9/11.

Posted by: chrojo01 | August 25, 2009 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Simply put the GOP cares not for the laws of the United States of America. They also do not care if millions of their fellow citizens die needlessly of treatable disease.

Posted by: hansenthered | August 25, 2009 8:36 PM | Report abuse

Time for Cheney to face the music. His concern for the men and women of the CIA is about as real as the Bush/Cheney concern was for our troops when they sent them to Iraq. He is only diverting attention from his crimes. There is a related post at http://iamsoannoyed.com/?page_id=588

Posted by: carlyt | August 25, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

To ceflynline

You must live in a fairy tale world.

Seriously...Did or DID NOT the questioning and interrogation of KSM lead to captures and intelligence?? ANSWER..YES

DID the capture and questioning/interrogation of other militant, radicalized muslims lead to proper arrests? ANSWER....YES.

Did the CIA, due to interrogations and captures inflict a blow, however small or big it may be, upon muslim extremists? ANSWER...YES.

Now I do believe that it has to be corroborated and checked but..HUMINT is the best intelligence and that can only be obtained by interrogations and sources.

So?
==
You miss the big fact. That rough tactics don't produce good intel. So they achieved something one time or three. In the end, as ever intelligence expert will no doubt tell you, you get more from them using other methods and torture just doesn't work.

Posted by: hansenthered | August 25, 2009 8:42 PM | Report abuse

Who woke up the sleeping "pit bull" aka the United States??

The fundamentalist, radicalized muslims did.

Who is reaping what they sow?? The fundamentalist, radicalized muslims

Do I even care about what happens to them when the CIA, NSA, or anyone captures them?

Absolutely NOT!

I am a democrat but I don't believe in being "nice" to my enemy.

YES, they messed up in ways but....were they trying to do what was right???

ABSOLUTELY YES!!

I cannot defend a culture and small proportion of radicalized fundamentalist muslims who want to kill westerners. Sorry, but I can't.

Tell the ACLU to defend people who actually care about living in peace.

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Cheney WANTS to go on trial! He WANTS a public forum! He isn't going to hide anything for his own sake. But, I think those making the "war criminal" allegations are in for a serious shock. If it ever came to a trial, there are multiple avenues for Cheney to pursue in his defense and, again, I think he would be acquitted or the case would be dismised. But it is sure to be the Trial of the Century and it's sure to be a forum for Mr. Cheney that I think he WANTS! He is a deluded and ruthless old man, but, the "war criminal" nonsense will not stand up to the rigors of our law.

Posted by: chrojo01 | August 25, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse

What more would anyone expect from Holder? After all, the Democrats have been offering up nothing better since 2006. The results show = what a mess they've got us in and now we need to further rip ourselves apart with a senseless witch hunt. I'm looking forward to the next election.

Posted by: sonny_sky | August 25, 2009 8:48 PM | Report abuse

This reaction is a tragedy for the nation and the GOP--especially it's "Christian" base.

The political south has always been a figment of it's own imagination, and the congressional generation is no exception. They have no idea that they have become barbarians, and along with Fox News and the AM radio crowd they are destroying the once civilized GOP.

In the very near future, the opportunists Steel, McCain, and of course Palin will be trying to energize the base with these talking points. Will it work? I doubt it.

While, it's true that that those who are entertained by Sarah, Rush and Co would love to torture all sorts of people, that anger is a real turn off. Rush is old and getting older. Sarah is a national joke, and those drawly are sounding more and more inauthentic. The GOP has to stand for more than racial identity, conflict, confrontation, anger, intimidation and violence.

Under it's present leadership The GOP appears to be neither republican nor christian. What a shame.

Posted by: protagoras | August 25, 2009 8:57 PM | Report abuse

When your wife and child are held for ransom and the guy in custody won't talk because no one put the heat on him what would you be willing to do to the mutt to make him cough up the information on how to rescue them both?

Idiots: We have been free of bomb attacks on our soil since 9/11. Be grateful to Bush at least for that. If he erred. He erred on the side of the safety of the American people. If Obama commits an error you can bet it will be in favor of our enemies.

Posted by: mharwick |

====================

When your wife is mistakenly taken as a terrorist and is being tortured with drills and death threats, you will wonder why our government could ever allow such things to happen.

Posted by: Honest_Abe | August 25, 2009 5:57 PM
____________________________________________________
If I had a wife who was arrested on a battlefield fighting side by side with Al qaeda or in a burka with a bomb concealed underneath then I would hope that she would be threatened or cajoled whatever worked to find out all about the plots of her fellow terrorists. If she were innocent the questioning would prove it. If not Obama and company have granted her two attacks on our system of military tribunals. Habeas Corpus and full blown trials.
Honest Abe would roll over in his grave if he knew that his namesake was more interested in the well-being of radical butchers than fellow Americans. He even suspended Habeas Corpus. Don't call yourself George Washington instead because he had traitors shot on the spot.

Posted by: mharwick | August 25, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

The torture that awaits the American people. Obamacare and the killing of the greatest health system in the world.

Posted by: mharwick | August 25, 2009 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Come on!!!!!!!!

Everyone knows that Cheney and Bush are guilty and are up to their necks in it.

All this is just delaying justice and the inevitable. There must be a prosecution. People have been tortured. Torture is illegal in this country. Someone is responsible and someone may be made accountable.

Posted by: francinelast | August 25, 2009 9:16 PM | Report abuse

TampaBayareaRedskinsfan:

Actually, I live in a very real world, and in that very real world, the correct answer to each of your questions is, unequivocally, NO!.

Virtually everything worth knowing that we got from KSM, which wasn't much at all, we had willingly from him in his initial interviews. Once the torture started, we got lies and evasions. (Not my opinion, facts being reported by REAL HUMINT specialists who were there. Not the B/C thugs who pretend to know something about prisoner interrogation.)

In the very real world of Intelligence gathering, smarts, finesse, and diligence will get you what is there to know. The James Bond stuff mostly doesn't exist anyway, and what little does exist provides only the remotest part of our Intelligence.

Schmoes like me, listening to radios, and writing down what we hear, and our counterparts in the other non HUMINT fields, like imagry interpretation, and EW, and area specialists, and the analysts who work over our product get most of it. LRRPs and other observers get more.

Humint just fills in some of the details.

Torture gets us NOTHING AT ALL>

Posted by: ceflynline | August 25, 2009 9:18 PM | Report abuse

And this particular fantasy: "Now I do believe that it has to be corroborated and checked but..HUMINT is the best intelligence and that can only be obtained by interrogations and sources.
Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan |"

Flatly untrue. Always, and everywhere.

I did the SIGINT portion for a living.

Posted by: ceflynline | August 25, 2009 9:21 PM | Report abuse

It's all bad, but unlike president Clinton it's all against the law. I still remember like it was yeasterday Republicans talking about the rule of law during the impeachment of Clinton for lying under oath about an affair. Was that a witchunt?
Folks, it's bad, I know, when you trust somebody and they betray you, you feel resentful. But the fact is crimes were committed. Now we are going to find out who all committed these unamerican AND ILLEGAL actions. Don't hate the prosecuter hate the people that purpetrated these crimes.

Posted by: destonecipher | August 25, 2009 9:22 PM | Report abuse

No Witch Hunt. It is simple looking for criminal elements inside and outside the government.

We should start with Bush and work our way down.

Posted by: Maddogg | August 25, 2009 9:28 PM | Report abuse

"I guess I dont find any of these things as being very severe. Maybe I am not as big of a pu$$y as some of you Dems, but considering what these terrorists did, or want to do, I think they are getting off light! Or maybe I have a higher threshold for pain and discomfort. Feels like I have been feeling it more these days with Obama and Pelosi talking about health care. Posted by: sanmateo1850 |"

You may not, but John McCain, who had to endure that stuff, says that is is definitely torture. So do all the other thousands of Americans who endured it in WWII and Viet Nam.

During the Korean War, now, they DIDN'T torture. They "brainwashed", that is they used finesse and smarts to confuse Americans into doing what they wanted them to do.

It was much more efective.

Posted by: ceflynline | August 25, 2009 9:34 PM | Report abuse

There is a little town just over the Irac border in Syria, Usama Bin Laden and his cutthroats went door to door in the village taping granades to the mouths of mothers with children searching for the men folk to slaughter them. when the families did not give up the men, they would throw her inside the home and close the door. When the family rushed to save her the granade would blow up wounding and killing the family members, this happened house by house... This happened before 911...it was an area where the Bath Party came from...Sadam swore no allegence to Alqaeda, and never allowed them to "train in his Country" because of this murderous rampage. however, the Bush Admin used the intelligence reports to say that Sadam had connections with Alqaeda, and allowed training camps and so on. The moral of this story is Alqaeda is ruthless, Bush did his job at a level you will never understand. Sometimes somethings are just better left alone.

Posted by: alert11 | August 25, 2009 9:36 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | August 25, 2009 8:43 PM
YES, they messed up in ways but....were they trying to do what was right???

ABSOLUTELY YES!!

I cannot defend a culture and small proportion of radicalized fundamentalist muslims who want to kill westerners. Sorry, but I can't.

Tell the ACLU to defend people who actually care about living in peace.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
TampaBayareaRedskinsfan, during World War II, The United States lost 418,500 of its citizens. About 0.32% of it's population.

Japan lost 2,120,000 of it's citizens. About 3.78% of it's population and lost the war.

Germany lost 8,493,000 of it's citizens. About 12% of it's citizens, and lost the war.

What good did it do the Germans to torture and kill almost 6,000,000 Jews other than to receive hatred and never to be forgotten memories from the rest of the world forever.


Posted by: helloisanyoneoutthere | August 25, 2009 9:52 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: sanmateo1850 | August 25, 2009 7:56 PM
I guess I dont find any of these things as being very severe. Maybe I am not as big of a pu$$y as some of you Dems, but considering what these terrorists did, or want to do, I think they are getting off light! Or maybe I have a higher threshold for pain and discomfort. Feels like I have been feeling it more these days with Obama and Pelosi talking about health care.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What if, while I was interogating you, I told you that I was going to send someone out to murder your whole family.

I think I'd rather take the drill to the head sanmateo1850. How about you?
===========================================

I think the point you might have missed is that it is all a pychological game. Nothing else. I do not think the CIA wants to be accused of murder. So the fact that they threaten to fill your family is bogus. It is just a mind game. I feel bad for those that can't seem to figure this out. Some may feel that it is considered severe, but others may not. I guess it comes down to how you define what the your definition of "severe" is.

You Dems should be good at this game...remember, "well, it depends on what you definition of "is" is." LOL!!!

Posted by: sanmateo1850 | August 25, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse

All this is meant to be is cover for Obamas upcomming Berg VS Obama hearing , the failing economy , bad healthcare policy they do not want us to know about , and the budget defecit underestimate by 2 trillion dollars . Plus a few more various assorted lies to cover .

Posted by: Imarkex | August 25, 2009 9:59 PM | Report abuse

"I guess I dont find any of these things as being very severe. Maybe I am not as big of a pu$$y as some of you Dems, but considering what these terrorists did, or want to do, I think they are getting off light! Or maybe I have a higher threshold for pain and discomfort. Feels like I have been feeling it more these days with Obama and Pelosi talking about health care. Posted by: sanmateo1850 |"

You may not, but John McCain, who had to endure that stuff, says that is is definitely torture. So do all the other thousands of Americans who endured it in WWII and Viet Nam.

During the Korean War, now, they DIDN'T torture. They "brainwashed", that is they used finesse and smarts to confuse Americans into doing what they wanted them to do.

It was much more efective.

Posted by: ceflynline | August 25, 2009 9:34 PM | Report abuse
==========================================

Come on, that is not a good argument. What else will McCain say! He was running for president, he HAD to say that.

So for your "brainwashing" argument. I like the change of terminology, but I still the Democrats would find a way to call this "torture" as well. It was a good try though. I think we should just rename tourture as "Enhanced Democracy Education Techniques" Sort of the way Democrats dont like to call illegal immmigrants "illegal" anymore, but undocumented. I guess that makes talking about supporting them more acceptable. Who in their right mind put policies in place to protect people they know are committing crimes.

Posted by: sanmateo1850 | August 25, 2009 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: sanmateo1850 | August 25, 2009 9:53 PM
I think the point you might have missed is that it is all a pychological game. Nothing else. I do not think the CIA wants to be accused of murder. So the fact that they threaten to fill your family is bogus. It is just a mind game. I feel bad for those that can't seem to figure this out. Some may feel that it is considered severe, but others may not. I guess it comes down to how you define what the your definition of "severe" is.

You Dems should be good at this game...remember, "well, it depends on what you definition of "is" is." LOL!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There was no "point missed" here sanmateo1850, the intelligence folks knew where they picked you up, knew where you lived, and probably knew the names of your family, because they interrogated them also.

Joke all you want peabrain, and call it some kind of partisan crap, but until you've experienced it, you're simply talking out of your pie hole and what you ate doesn't smell too good.

I sure hope that they bring back the draft and you're the first to go, because you're in for a rude awakening!


Posted by: helloisanyoneoutthere | August 25, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

The party of NO, is finally the party of YES.... to torture.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 25, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

How sad the way most politicians in this country have abandoned moral values and the rule of law. Somebody should write a book, a potential Pulitizer prize, about how the Republican party founded as party in support of human rights, opposing the spread of slavery, that within ten years abolished slavery degenerated over subsequent decades to an amoral contemporary defense of war crimes, torture, lies about the invasion of Iraq, and violations of the law.

Obama, in his opposition to prosecuting violations of the law and likely war crimes, shows how little he is interested in following his oath of office, to enforce the laws of the land and uphold the rule of law in this country. Any investigation of the previous administration, to have any credibility, needs to have full authority to pursue legal actions against any officials found to have violated laws, regardless of how high or low their positions.

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | August 25, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Could it be anymore clear - Democrats will stop at nothing to cement their power and wreak vengeance. If Americans die as a result then that is an inconvenient distraction.

Posted by: egrib | August 25, 2009 10:51 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: sanmateo1850 | August 25, 2009 9:53 PM
I think the point you might have missed is that it is all a pychological game. Nothing else. I do not think the CIA wants to be accused of murder. So the fact that they threaten to fill your family is bogus. It is just a mind game. I feel bad for those that can't seem to figure this out. Some may feel that it is considered severe, but others may not. I guess it comes down to how you define what the your definition of "severe" is.

You Dems should be good at this game...remember, "well, it depends on what you definition of "is" is." LOL!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There was no "point missed" here sanmateo1850, the intelligence folks knew where they picked you up, knew where you lived, and probably knew the names of your family, because they interrogated them also.

Joke all you want peabrain, and call it some kind of partisan crap, but until you've experienced it, you're simply talking out of your pie hole and what you ate doesn't smell too good.

I sure hope that they bring back the draft and you're the first to go, because you're in for a rude awakening!


Posted by: helloisanyoneoutthere | August 25, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

==========================================

It sounds as if you are a person speaking from experience? Are you? Or are you not? If not, then I suggest you shut your pie hole, because you are doing nothing more than throwing out the same sort of crap I am.

If course no one WANTS to use EITs, but unfortunately they are a necessary evil of our world. Whether you want to admit it or not, it is. The sooner you liberal, tree hugging, prius driving, wheat germ eating wimps face the facts the sooner our country, and govt, can get back to making sure our nation has the strongest economy in the world. Then they can focus on figuring out how to fix healthcare, and why they are at our education system. Dont lets these petty little distractions get in the way of what is really important. And the sad fact is, deep down, we need to use EITs. There is no other way you are going to get the information that you need to stop these terrorists. Guess what, brainwashing wont work either.

I am sorry, sittign down and trying to rationalize with them is about as productive as trying to have a beer with a racist College Professor and a decorated Cambridge police officer. How did that one turn out for Obama?

So get over it, and accept that torture in some form will continue long after you and I are gone.

Posted by: sanmateo1850 | August 25, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans appear to argue that torture might end because of Holder's decision. That won't hurt anybody.

Posted by: esch | August 25, 2009 11:07 PM | Report abuse

My pleasure at watching Obama commit political suicide is exceeded by my horror at what he's doing to our country. Obama's Justice Department won't prosecute Black Panthers who intimidate voters on election day, but he's eager to go after the patriots whose successful interrogations foiled all of al Qaeda's follow-up plots against America.

Could we have gotten the same information by less aggressive means? Possibly. Would it have been worth the risk of relying on Army Field Manual-type techniques and hoping for the best? Of course not.

Obama is our first anti-American president. He deeply reviles our history and our role in the world, which he considers unjust. After tripling the deficit, weakening capitalism, allowing Iraq and Afghanistan to slowly fail and Iran to acquire nuclear weapons, and halting the war against jihadist terror, America will be more vulnerable, poorer and less free. To quote his wife Michelle, Obama "will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual".

Welcome to the third world, America, where the charismatic revolutionary leader tries to destroy all traces of the prior order. Next year's election will be make-or-break for our nation. I'm betting that most of us will choose liberty and prosperity over becoming a people's republic.

Posted by: emmet1 | August 25, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

sanmateo writes:
"And the sad fact is, deep down, we need to use EITs. There is no other way you are going to get the information that you need to stop these terrorists. Guess what, brainwashing wont work either.
...

So get over it, and accept that torture in some form will continue long after you and I are gone.

---------------------------------------------------

I keep reading all these alarmist posts, all about the big, mean terrorists, and how we have to be mean, too. So why didn't we regularly use torture in WWII against non-military prisoners, especially spies? I'm guessing it's because those soldiers had more moral fiber than those that are being subjected to the current "witch hunt".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Agupta1 writes:
"This sets a very bad precedent. Now, there is nothing to stop the next Republican president from investigating everything President Obama is doing. And the next Democratic president can investigate that Republican administration.

It can start a terrible cycle."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Please note that these "witch hunts" are not aimed at interrogators that followed the guidelines set by the previous administration.

They are aimed at those who crossed that line into illegality.

Posted by: iamweaver | August 25, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

haha, the chicken hawks are now scrambling for cover. But seriously I doubt anything will come out of this CIA probe. Obama is committed to protecting your war criminals, much to our dismay.

Posted by: Single_Payer | August 26, 2009 2:47 AM | Report abuse

The people screaming the loudest are the people most responsible --- the Congress. They have utterly failed the American people!

I can only support this investigation if the people who caused it are prosecuted and given longer sentences than the interogators. Start with Mr. Bush (the puppet at the top). Mr. Cheney, Mr. Rumsfeld, Mr. Wolfowitz, Mr. Rove, and their ilk MUST be the first to face prosecution and prison, and must receive the most severe penalties for me to support this endeavor.

Congress must protect Federal employees from their bosses if they are going to prosecute them for following orders. There has always been a gray area about when an order become unlawful, and the employee has never been protected in these areas.

Prosecute the top, Go for it, if you are only going to prosecute the minnows, then don't waste the time or money.

Posted by: Tawodi | August 26, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

If I were a Jihadist I would be celebrating a great victory when I read these comments.

The Jihadists have turned you Americans on each other like ruthless dogs fighting each other.

You should be ashamed to speak to each other this way.

You are losing this war on every front; electing one of your enemies as your president was perhaps the most stupid thing ever done by a democratic electorate in human history. You will pay a heavy price for this mistake.

Start by remembering what it is to be an American: Free, and brave enough to listen to opinions other than your own. The more rabid your comments against other posters are; the more you need psychological help.

How the mighty have fallen.

Posted by: Zened | August 26, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

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