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Senate health-care debate stalls in dispute over amendments

By Shailagh Murray
The Senate health-care debate has stalled on the floor as Democrats blame Republicans for blocking votes on the first two amendments.

Still pending as of mid-afternoon Wednesday was a bipartisan proposal to increase preventive health care for women and a Republican bid to strip out significant Medicare cuts. Both were offered on Monday, but Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) has so far failed to reach an agreement on votes with Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.).

McConnell explained to Reid that numerous GOP senators are waiting their turn to address the Medicare amendment. Republicans also are crafting their own version of the preventive care measure, but the language is not yet ready for floor consideration. GOP leaders defended the pace as reasonable, given the bill's vast scope, and the fact that many of its provisions don't take affect until 2014. "What's the big rush?" said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas).

The GOP Medicare amendment would effectively gut the $848 billion health-care bill by eliminating its primary revenue source, nearly $500 billion in Medicare spending reductions. Republicans argue that the cuts would harm current beneficiaries and lead to rationing. But on Wednesday afternoon, the AARP joined other senior groups to oppose the GOP amendment, offered by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.).

"The legislation before the Senate properly focuses on provider reimbursement reforms to achieve these important policy objectives," AARP CEO Addison Barry Rand wrote in a letter to Reid. "Most importantly, the legislation does not reduce any guaranteed Medicare benefits."

Democrats said they would press ahead even if the delays cost senators their holiday break. And even as action slows on the floor, Reid is continuing to negotiate in his office with individual lawmakers, as he seeks to build a 60-vote coalition for final passage.

"We're not going to let them run this bill into the ground and into next year," Sen. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.), the majority whip, told reporters Wednesday afternoon.

But Democrats also said they were preparing to respond with their own parliamentary tactics to untangle the process.

"Leadership has been beyond patient, and I think their determination now is to use whatever procedural vehicles might be used," said Sen. Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.). "Enough is enough. We're going to stay here as long as it takes, as many days as it takes."

By Web Politics Editor  |  December 2, 2009; 4:11 PM ET
Categories:  Health Reform  
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Comments

Harry Reid, do whatever you have to do to get this bill passed!

- The American People

Posted by: Heerman532 | December 2, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Anything that stymies the corrupt democrats and this blivet is good for the people.

These #%^^$ leeches need to be run out of Washington on a rail.

Posted by: LarryG62 | December 2, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Stop the foot dragging. Debate the damn bill, vote up and down, and move on. Are you listening Republicans AND Democrats?!

Posted by: cdreimer | December 2, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Remember the good old days when the Republicans were for up and down votes?

Posted by: jbentley4 | December 2, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

It is wonderful that the Republicans actually listened at the town hall meetings this summer. I wish the Dems would have done the same. AARP is not representing me, and the membership has fallen because of the backing of this bad bill.

Posted by: colleensdad | December 2, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

These bullies cannot grasp the fact they work for us, not the other way around. The majority of Americans do NOT approve of this government run health care bill!

We want jobs! Not more taxes! This albatross would create more costs/taxes on businesses; thus, more hiring freezes and lay-offs. Kill the bill.

Posted by: inmanorj | December 2, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

These bullies cannot grasp the fact they work for us, not the other way around. The majority of Americans do NOT approve of this government run health care bill!

We want jobs! Not more taxes! This albatross would create more costs/taxes on businesses; thus, more hiring freezes and lay-offs. Kill the bill.

Posted by: inmanorj | December 2, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

no bonanza for the ceos!

Posted by: ryan_heart | December 2, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Republicans WILL continue to block the largest-scale takeover by the government of private industry. Go Repubs! Dems/libs should be ashamed of themselves. Our country has survived idiots before in Congress, it will survive this one as well.

Posted by: joaquinrose | December 2, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Republicans are ideologically opposed to government. Anything they can do to obstruct it's proper and effective function, they will do.

It will take decades to fix the mess they made of this country. It's been going down hill since Reagan. Look what he did to California.

Posted by: thebobbob | December 2, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

The "primary revenue source, nearly $500 billion in Medicare spending reductions"

YIKES - THIS MONEY WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE IN THE SECOND 10 YEAR PERIOD.

The health care bill is SHORT 3 - 5 TRILLION DOLLARS.

Does anyone really want to be responsible

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | December 2, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Liberal ideology ruined California... It would not have mattered who was in charge! As far as Reagan is concerned, maybe we should have voted Carter back in for another dismal 4 years! Wait, we did elect "him" again in 2008 under a different name!

Posted by: TexanbygraceofGOD | December 2, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

"Democrats blame Republicans for blocking votes on the first two amendments."

No, Republicans ARE blocking votes on the first two amendments. They're not denying it, and this is not a he said/she said issue. They have detailed strategy memos describing exactly how they're going to block health care reform. It's a fact. Better political reporters please.

Posted by: steveandshelley | December 2, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

I am amazed at the level of hysteria surrounding health care reform. Many of the comments are obviously posted by people who have a very limited understanding of what is being proposed, several can’t even spell and resort to profanity symbols. The fact is that this country needs responsible health care reform that must include a public option, without which, there will be no incentive for health insurance companies to reduce premiums. The argument that companies will cancel their existing health insurance programs overlooks the need for companies to attract quality workers. If this argument was sound, logic would suggest that all companies would just pay the minimum wage, because that is all the government requires. Bottom line, members of Congress must work together to provide the American people with a health care system that is stainable and affordable. The only way this can happen is for our lawmakers to not listen to the fear mongers or spend time jockeying for political advantage.

Posted by: ConcernedCitizen46 | December 2, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Federal government tentacles growing quickly. First our health care and next, our media . . . .

Excerpt from Reuters
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A top Democratic lawmaker predicted on Wednesday that the government will be involved in shaping the future for struggling U.S. media organizations.

House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, saying quality journalism was essential to U.S. democracy, said eventually government would have to help resolve the problems caused by a failing business model.

End excerpt

Posted by: Tupac_Goldstein | December 2, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

AARP has their own agenda. I'm a senior and I dropped them like a hot patato. AARP is not for helping seniors but for helping themselves. Most senior know this and I hope you are aware of their special interests. SENIORS DROP AARP for your own good.

Posted by: farmsnorton | December 2, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

This bill needs to die a quick and painful death of a thousand cuts.

That the Senate doesn't even know what's in the Bill anymore, yet plans to vote on it anyway, proves the obvious - it's functionally flawed, overpriced, and out of control ... and they want to try to shove it while the Democrat sheep are still sleeping at the wheel.

Posted by: asmith1 | December 2, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

There has NEVER been a reason to oppose a reform of healthcare BUT... this is not a REFORM, it is a Government TAKEOVER...ConcernedCitizen46 and YOU KNOW THAT!!!! Why is it important that WE pass this bill with the many problems cited on it such as tax increases for the first three years to get it started, like the tax on ANY operation someone will have in addition to other fees, AND the real and true DEATH SQUAD part AND let me not forget that YOU MUST PRESENT PROOF OF INSURANCE when you file your TAXES or go TO JAIL. TEll me in your lying way that this will not happen and I am here to tell YOU IT WILL. What does ANY OF THIS have to do with reform. REAL REFORM is getting rid of Lawyers and making it easy to buy insurance nationwide, like our car insurance. Oh... no! These wouldn't work because they don't fit OBAMA's AGENDA! So get real here people, stop listening to the left's lies about how they are reforming healthcare. They are TAKING over your life, your health. WAKE UP!!!!!

Posted by: joaquinrose | December 2, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

It's time to move this bill to fruition. We Democrats elected a House, a Senate, and an executive to pass health care reform with a public option. The GOP needs to get out of the way of progress. They have no ideas other than block legislation, obscure the truth, and sow fear. Finish the job we gave you.

Posted by: Keesvan | December 2, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

Government takeover of health care scares the heck out of the people who have been raping the public for decades. For ordinary Americans, it offers the opportunity for never again having to worry that your family will be forever poor if you get sick or lose your job. The sad thing is, health insurance CEOs have so much power that REAL reform stripping them of their billions will never happen.

Posted by: pgriekspoor | December 2, 2009 6:28 PM | Report abuse

They should have started with something much simpler.

All we need are some policies or a more competitive market structure in order to bring costs down, regulations prohibiting people from being dropped, and regulation addressing pre-existing conditions.

Sadly, congress has missed the boat. What a wasted opportunity.

Posted by: postfan1 | December 2, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

The fact that Repubes are dealying health reform as long as they can tells me that the bill Democrats are pushing will help American families and cut into corporate profits. Each day the GOP delays reform, has a multi-million dollar value for their corporate masters. When will we learn?

Posted by: free-donny | December 2, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

We can’t keep having deadlock. We desperately need members of both parties working to make a change in a health insurance system that is failing the American people.

Neither side has to get all they want as long as each side gets something that leads to reform of the system. I actually think we will be better off with a compromise bill than one that reflects only Democrat thinking or Republican thinking. But, to have input, the Republicans have to be ready and have to compromise. Anything else is a loss for all of us.

McConnell and Cornyn are playing political games with an issue that is vital to people and our economy.

Posted by: amelia45 | December 2, 2009 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Republicans are ideologically opposed to government. Anything they can do to obstruct it's proper and effective function, they will do.

It will take decades to fix the mess they made of this country. It's been going down hill since Reagan. Look what he did to California.

Posted by: thebobbob | December 2, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse
88888888888888888

Don't need to look too far.

The califunga logislators have had a democrat majority running their state since before Regan. The dumbocrats there run that once great state into the ground and they are attempting the same thing in DC.

Posted by: frankn1 | December 2, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

The hypocritical Republicans will lie and do anything to stop Health Care. Not because its bad for the country but because they're in the pockets of the Health Care Corporate structure. Until people stop believing the lies and realize the Health Insurance companies are going to protect their 50% profits at any costs nothing will happen. We will continue to see premiums skyrocket,people losing everything to health care bills and people dying because the insurance companies deny treatment. All the Republicans have to do is say taxes and socialism and the idiots fall in behind them. Unbelievable that we actually think leaving our health in the hands of greedy corporations is the smart thing to do.

Posted by: imgibson | December 2, 2009 7:07 PM | Report abuse

"The fact is that this country needs responsible health care reform that must include a public option, without which, there will be no incentive for health insurance companies to reduce premiums."

CBO says that premiums on the public option will be HIGHER than private insurance...so where is the incentive for them to lower premiums????

This bill has no focus, or the wrong focus...The goal should have been to decrease COSTS, which would then lead to decreased premiums, making insurance more affordable for more people...the bill does not address costs AT ALL...

Posted by: boosterprez | December 2, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

They should have started with something much simpler.

All we need are some policies or a more competitive market structure in order to bring costs down, regulations prohibiting people from being dropped, and regulation addressing pre-existing conditions.

Sadly, congress has missed the boat. What a wasted opportunity.

Posted by: postfan1 | December 2, 2009 6:34 PM |

==================================

This is what Americans and the Republicans have said they wanted all along, but the Democrats want to throw us onto the plantation where the Government can "take care of us" as our country goes down the tubes.

This Bill is a functionally flawed social experiment that only the Democrats could think up. And now, even some of the Democrats are questioning the flaws and back away.

Posted by: asmith1 | December 2, 2009 7:52 PM | Report abuse

"What's the big rush?" said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas).

How aptly put by this Senator, former Texas Supreme Court Justice, former Texas Attorney General and chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee.


Come to think of it, I always enjoy the way this Senator puts things like when Franken had Phantom ballots counted in his favor, Brian Walsh, a spokesman for Cornyn issued a statement "...that ballots exist before they are counted,..."
(Article in the Minneapolis Star Tribune)

Posted by: kwoods2 | December 2, 2009 7:55 PM | Report abuse

I fail to understand why you Libs are whining. You have the 60 votes- pass it at your own peril. You do not need we Republicans at all. But you will not do that will you? Because you know that this bill is a loser that has to be rammed through before the November elections eliminate your very shaky majority. Better start looking for new jobs.

Posted by: Dionysis | December 2, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Death panels throwing women's health and our seniors under the bus, and they are barely embarrassed.

Posted by: georgejones5 | December 2, 2009 8:13 PM | Report abuse

Heerman532 wrote:
Harry Reid, do whatever you have to do to get this bill passed!

- The American People
___________________________________________________

Heerman532,
First, thanks for pointing out Harry Reid's pattern of behavior.

Second, sorry to burst your bubble, but you are not America. The Americans have spoken and they are opposed to the requirement for taxpayers to be mandated to pay for pre-birth murder.

Posted by: kwoods2 | December 2, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Give us strong marketplace competition for the Insurance Industry via a STRONG PUBLIC OPTION!

...And remove the anti-trust exempton the Industry has been using to conspire against Americans' better interests for generations.

I support President Obama 100%!

Posted by: onestring | December 2, 2009 8:17 PM | Report abuse

georgejones5 wrote:

Death panels throwing women's health and our seniors under the bus, and they are barely embarrassed.

___________________________________________________
Thanks for posting the exact actions of the Democratic Senators.

Can you imagine that it is the Democrats who want to cut 400 billion from Medicare when it was a Democrat who created Social Security?

Can you imagine that the Democrats have voted for the requirement for taxpayers to be mandated to pay for pre-birth murder which not only kills the baby but the girls and women?

Thirteen-year-old Dawndalea Ravenell underwent a 21-week pre-birth murder on January 24, 1985 by pre-birth murderer Allen Kline at Eastern Women's Center. The $450 fee was paid for by her 15-year-old boyfriend.

Dawn awoke five minutes into the killing and began to vomit and choke, wherein, a breathing tube was put in her mouth.

"Dawn was left unattended in a recovery room where she apparently awoke, choked on the airway, and suffered a heart attack. This left her in a coma."
Dawn was comatose for three weeks before she died on February 11, 1985.

"In an interview, her mother said, 'They told me I had to come in [to the hospital] right away, that Dawn is here at that hospital fighting for her life. ...I was going - how could she be fighting for her life- she left this morning, going to school, looking healthy, never been sick. ...while I was in the hospital sitting there. ...I had to keep my hand over my mouth to keep from screaming in horror. I could not believe this was happening. I said this is a bad dream, I'm going to wake up and this would not have happened."

When a judge asked Allen Kline if Dawn's age had captured his attention he responded, "Oh no. I've done 13-year-olds before. When they're 10, maybe I'll notice."

Court testimony also showed that Dr. Kline and the staff altered and fabricated medical records in an attempt to conceal mistakes.

New York Daily News 12/11/90

New York Post 12/11/90, 8/7/91, 8/15/94

Posted by: kwoods2 | December 2, 2009 8:21 PM | Report abuse

IRISHexaminerUSA, asks:

[Question 4:]

If you claim that removing waste and fraud from Medicaid and Medicare will pay for the trillion-dollar bill, why can't you do that now? You don't need new legislation to do that.

Posted by: ChooseBestCandidate | December 2, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

... "Wouldn't it have been a better idea to stimulate the economy by giving money back directly to the taxpayers? "

Posted by: ChooseBestCandidate | December 2, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

I am amazed at the level of hysteria surrounding health care reform. Many of the comments are obviously posted by people who have a very limited understanding of what is being proposed, several can’t even spell and resort to profanity symbols. The fact is that this country needs responsible health care reform that must include a public option, without which, there will be no incentive for health insurance companies to reduce premiums.
======================================
It sounds like you are the one with no understanding.

Insurance companies made 2.5% profit last year. I know liberals fill your mind with these scary images of "ruthless insurance companies and big corporations" but it's just scare tactics.

I bet you just cower at how global warming is killing the earth from the pictures of smokestacks on a cold morning.

Why did democrats sue for choices in medical care including alternative medicine if cost control is their concern?

Get an education before you spout off talking points.

Posted by: Cryos | December 2, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

"If our most pressing problems are the economy and unemployment, why is so much time and energy being spent on reforming health care, which is not in crisis? "

Posted by: ChooseBestCandidate | December 2, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

"Why do you keep saying that the Republicans have no plan to reform health care? They've proposed that health care could be cheaper if we were allowed to buy less expensive insurance from other states. We need tort reform because so much of the unnecessary testing is due to frivolous lawsuits that drive up malpractice insurance costs. Does your bill address these reforms, and if not, why not?"

Posted by: ChooseBestCandidate | December 2, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse

onestring wrote:

Give us strong marketplace competition for the Insurance Industry via a STRONG PUBLIC OPTION!

...And remove the anti-trust exempton the Industry has been using to conspire against Americans' better interests for generations.

I support President Obama 100%!

_________________________________________________
I can see that you know the true record of the present occupant in the White House's baby extermination.

"Dr. Haskell went in with forceps and grabbed the baby's legs and pulled them down into the birth canal. Then he delivered the baby's body and the arms;everything but the head. The doctor kept the head right inside the uterus. The baby's little fingers were clasping and unclasping, and his little feet were kicking. Then the doctor stuck the scissors in the back of his head, and the baby's arms jerked out, like a startle reaction, like a flinch, like a baby does when he thinks he is going to fall....The doctor opened up the scissors, stuck a high-powered suction tube into the opening, and sucked the baby's brains out. Now the baby went completely limp. He cut the umbilical cord and delivered the placenta. He threw the baby in a pan, along with the placenta and the instruments he had just used."


After the ban was upheld on this hideous procedure in the court case Gonzales vs. Carhart also known as Gonzales vs. Planned Parenthood, which Planned Parenthood fought for, argued for, and lost all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, to continue this horrific killing, the present occupant in the White House stated:

"I am extremely concerned that [Gonzales v. Carhart] will embolden state legislatures to enact further measures to restrict a woman's right to choose, and that the conservative Supreme Court justices will look for other opportunities to erode Roe v. Wade."

Posted by: kwoods2 | December 2, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse

All the "obstruction republican comments are a joke.

The last few years the media has lost all illusions of objective coverage and has helped democrats gain a supermajority.

The republicans can't stop anything. So blame no one but the dithering, do nothing, idealistic democrats.

Posted by: Cryos | December 2, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse

why are we being asked to pay into a fund that we will not have access to for another five years?

Posted by: ChooseBestCandidate | December 2, 2009 8:57 PM | Report abuse

why are we being asked to pay into a fund that we will not have access to for another five years?

Posted by: ChooseBestCandidate
=============================
So democrats can hide the real deficit and push the real costs of health care on the next president.

Posted by: Cryos | December 2, 2009 8:59 PM | Report abuse

if democrats are fully in charge why do they continue to tell the american public it is the republicans holding their healthcare bill up?

Posted by: ChooseBestCandidate | December 2, 2009 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Thank you Cyros. i thought as much.
if it werent so serious it would be comedy central.

Posted by: ChooseBestCandidate | December 2, 2009 9:00 PM | Report abuse

"AARP has their own agenda. I'm a senior and I dropped them like a hot patato."
-=-==--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==

aarp on board because obama dropped them a cool EIGHTEEN MILLION in their laps.

u do the math.

Posted by: ChooseBestCandidate | December 2, 2009 9:01 PM | Report abuse

when obama was presented with a way to save $54 billion from the healthcare package by means of TORT, what was obama's response?

Posted by: ChooseBestCandidate | December 2, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

some confuse the desire with health reform with obamacare and government run healthcare.

a desire for REFORM is not a desire for government-run healthcare, and certainly not what this adminisration has put on the table. this bill glaringly misses EVERYTHING that is wrong with the system and seems geared to nothing more than strategically putting dollars into the pockets of certain groups and people.

Posted by: ChooseBestCandidate | December 2, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

It's alive! End-of-life counseling in health bill
Salt Lake Tribune from earlier this autumn:

"The Medicare end-of-life planning provision that 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin said was tantamount to 'death panels' for seniors is staying in the latest Democratic health care bill unveiled Thursday."

"Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, at the time a lead negotiator on health care legislation, told constituents at a town hall meeting they had good reason to question the proposal.

'I don't have any problem with things like living wills, but they ought to be done within the family,' he said. 'We should not have a government program that determines you're going to pull the plug on grandma.'"


Now today, December 2nd:
"A Republican senator asserted Tuesday during a rancorous floor debate that President Barack Obama's health care overhaul will shorten the lives of America's seniors by cutting Medicare.

'I have a message for you: You're going to die sooner,' said Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., an obstetrician-turned-lawmaker.

Then, John McCain sponsored an amendment that would prevent nearly $500 billion from being cut from Medicare home health providers, hospitals, hospices and others.

My question is that why is it that after "Democrats cried out for eons that the Republicans were out to destroy Medicare" for the elderly are they now the party who is doing just that?

"AND they are going to do it without any help from said Republicans!!"

Posted by: kwoods2 | December 2, 2009 9:11 PM | Report abuse

If Republicans are such exceptional citizens of this exceptional country, why do they NOT think that they could help craft a single payer or public option that could make America's experience with single payer or the public option exceptional compared to the terrifying European examples they demagogue?

Posted by: tigman_2 | December 2, 2009 9:17 PM | Report abuse

"The Senate health-care debate has stalled on the floor as Democrats blame Republicans for blocking votes on the first two amendments."

Good. Rat and 1/2 Reid needs to go away.

Posted by: bandmom22 | December 2, 2009 9:19 PM | Report abuse

I was just wondered...if these bozos pass this bill-crap before Christmas and start taxing people in 2010, which is 4 years before the reform goes into effect, won't people be paying these extra taxes on a top of their current insurance premiums?

Posted by: jmk55 | December 2, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

thebobbob ... Explain to us all where in the Constitution does it give Congress the right to mandate Health Insurance on an american citizen. This is nothing more than an illegal take over of free enterprize. We will not stand for the ilks of you or Congress forcing this down our throats.
You have choices, so make them, Cuba, Venezuela,canada, england, russia just take your pick.

Posted by: jhnjdy | December 2, 2009 9:49 PM | Report abuse

If this bill is so great for you and I, then why isnt congress and the Presidents family covered on the same healthcare plan?
Because they are lying thru their teeth to us and will force this down our throats without a care.
They got their Cadilac plan just like their Union Supporters that cried if they were taxed on their extravagant Health Insurance benefits. Notice that tax is no longer on the table. Why is that?

Posted by: jhnjdy | December 2, 2009 10:04 PM | Report abuse

AL GORE recommends the scientific number crunchers at the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit in Britain ...

GLOBAL AL: "these guys are good, they took "Raw Data" (actual numbers) and turned them into Something We Can Believe In .. $100 million

- oops looking at new the New G650 Gulfstream, go to go"

CHANGE never looked so painful

.

Posted by: highkey11 | December 2, 2009 10:27 PM | Report abuse

WHEN HARRY met NANCY ...

...VEGAS says Nancy will kick Harry's butt, shave it, tattoo Pelosi on it and insert the Public Option ...

5 to 1 odds, harry is Nancy's bucket boy by Monday

Posted by: highkey11 | December 2, 2009 10:39 PM | Report abuse

The Bill will pass with a public option.

Why?

Because we elected Barrack Obama.

John McCain is a disgusting human being.

The Republican Party is dead.

Posted by: TheSimpleTruth | December 2, 2009 10:42 PM | Report abuse

Best news I've heard all day. With any kind of luck someone will get canned as in days of old.

Posted by: fenoy | December 2, 2009 10:43 PM | Report abuse

I might suggest that anyone who at the age of forty is unhappy with either Social Security and/or Medicare, those collected monies be returned to those individuals. Those people must remember, at that point, they excuse the government from providing Social Security and Medicare benefits.
My best guess would be that less than five percent of the people forty and over would take advantage of such a program.
As Jay Leno would say: SHUT UP

Posted by: bstrauss0913 | December 2, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

republ;iscum will use every single filthy dirty trick they can to try to make sure Americans don't have decent health care. They think our suffering is their road to power. Vermin. Dispicable scum.

Posted by: John1263 | December 2, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

This bill is criminal. It's a ruinously expensive government takeover that will have taxpayers footing the bill for illegal aliens, while Americans will have diminished care. Older Americans will indeed die sooner under this atrocity. Where are these trillions of dollars coming from, anyway? Those who voted for obama, how do you like your socialist change? obama is without doubt the worst thing to ever happen to this wonderful country. He is hell-bent on ruining us.

Posted by: wmpowellfan | December 2, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse

wmpowellfan wrote:

...Those who voted for obama, how do you like your socialist change? ...

----------------------------------

I'm loving it. And contrary to your rubbish comment, President Obama is the most respectable man to ever hold the office in my lifetime. He is a true moral and political leader. He is a man of character. He is intelligent. Having Mr. Obama in the White house makes me feels safe is a way the Republican loyalist rabble could never understand. He makes me proud to be an American again. I love him, unashamedly, unapologetically and without reservation. I would gladly die for him. You got that mister?

Posted by: TheSimpleTruth | December 2, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

wmpowellfan wrote:

...Those who voted for obama, how do you like your socialist change? ...

----------------------------------

I'm loving it. And contrary to your rubbish comment, President Obama is the most respectable man to ever hold the office in my lifetime. He is a true moral and political leader. He is a man of character. He is intelligent. Having Mr. Obama in the White house makes me feels safe is a way the Republican loyalist rabble could never understand. He makes me proud to be an American again. I love him, unashamedly, unapologetically and without reservation. I would gladly die for him. You got that mister?

Posted by: TheSimpleTruth
=======================
I hope this is a paid blogger or sarcasm. Otherwise I just feel pity.

Posted by: Cryos | December 2, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Scrap the scam! No amendment can transform a scam into an honest bill. Additionally, any "amendments" will be just tricks, like the Stupak amendment, to force us to swallow the scam.

The Stupak amendment was just another trick used by Obama and his accomplices to pass the Obamacare SCAM through the House. Tricked by the amendment, some Catholics (not all) actually believed the lies of Obama and his accomplices regarding abortion coverage! Tricked by the amendment, they failed to look at the evil behind the whole Obamacare scam. Will they be tricked again?!

Informed Americans, however, understand that, if Obama gets his way, Obamacare will FORCE us to pay for abortions, infanticide (late-term abortion) and probably euthanasia, in spite of Obama’s lies and tricks like the Stupak amendment.

Lies do not change Obama's pro-abortion and pro-infanticide (late-term abortion) stand, nor the aberrant stands of Obama's Health Care Czar Ezekiel Emanuel and Science Czar John Holdren.

Lies do not change the FACT that we are broke and Obamacare will further destroy our economy, our future and the future of our children and grandchildren.

Lies do not change the FACT that Obamacare is another scam to enslave us.

Pray the fraudulent and criminal Obamacare bill slips forever into oblivion!

Posted by: AntonioSosa | December 3, 2009 12:15 AM | Report abuse

tigman_2, I guess Republicans are NOT part of the dumbed down population who believes in Marxist fairy tales. They know socialism/Marxism multiples corruption, poverty and despair. They know socialized medicine is horrendous even when those in power are not Chavez-like U.S. hating Marxists like Obama and his czars. With Obama, his czars, and his ACORN mobs in charge of our health care, socialized medicine in the U.S. can be expected to be much, much worst than that in England, for example.

Posted by: AntonioSosa | December 3, 2009 12:24 AM | Report abuse


NO TO A PUBLIC OPTION

NO TO THE GOVERNMENT RUNNING ANYTHING!

NO TO PAYMENT for TERMINATING A DNA-UNIQUE HUMAN BEING

YES TO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

YES TO TORT REFORM

YES TO INTERSTATE INSURANCE

YES TO GOVERNMENT UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION OF THE U.S.

YES TO TERM LIMITS

YES TO IMPEACHMENT IF THE IRRATIONAL SPENDING CONTINUES AND MORE JOBS ARE LOST ! ! ! ! !

Posted by: DiscerningCitizen | December 3, 2009 7:45 AM | Report abuse

wmpowellfan wrote:

...Those who voted for obama, how do you like your socialist change? ...

----------------------------------

I'm loving it. And contrary to your rubbish comment, President Obama is the most respectable man to ever hold the office in my lifetime. He is a true moral and political leader. He is a man of character. He is intelligent. Having Mr. Obama in the White house makes me feels safe is a way the Republican loyalist rabble could never understand. He makes me proud to be an American again. I love him, unashamedly, unapologetically and without reservation. I would gladly die for him. You got that mister?

Posted by: TheSimpleTruth
=======================
I hope this is a paid blogger or sarcasm. Otherwise I just feel pity.
=======================
And what I feel for you, sir, and for the Republican loyalist rabble in general, wavers from deep disgust for your depraved hypocrisy to sympathy that you are a product of Karl Rove's imagination and a corporate propaganda machine so enormous and all encompassing that you are wholly incapable of grasping the extent to which it controls your thought. Wake up mister! Your country needs you.

Posted by: TheSimpleTruth | December 3, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse


Posted by: DiscerningCitizen

DiscerningCitizen's original comments in all caps. TheSimpleTruth's translation for the liberal impaired follows each comment:


NO TO A PUBLIC OPTION

I am part of the Republican loyalist rabble, sometimes referred to as a "Dittohead."


NO TO THE GOVERNMENT RUNNING ANYTHING!

We are headed into a 21st century reality in which the people, as represented by their respective governments, will have to learn to control raw capitalism by passing environmental laws governing what can be produced and what cannot. For example, product packaging will be broadly control so as to minimize the impact on the planet. This new political reality will in fact be a new political reality that goes beyond capitalism. Government ("of the people, by the people and for the people") regulation will be central to this new political realities. The necessity for moving in this direction now is an "in your face" reality even now because "subprime" lending almost destroyed our economy. Raw capitalism is a dead as communism, but I will continue screaming the same thing over and over again until I get my way because I am a Republican and that is what I do. Moreover, I hate government "of the people, by the people and for the people." I want government "of the corporation, by the corporation and for the corporation" with only a pretense of democracy.


NO TO PAYMENT for TERMINATING A DNA-UNIQUE HUMAN BEING

I am also a Southern Baptist. I don't care about the health of "born" babies, I just want them to be born. The fact that our infant mortality rate is disgusting for the richest country in the world doesn't phase me one bit. Just get them out of the womb! That's all I really care about. Go dittoheads!


YES TO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

I've got mine. To hell with the rest of you.

YES TO TORT REFORM

[here this liberal happens to agree with the dittohead]

YES TO INTERSTATE INSURANCE

Of course the insurance industry is a capitalist monster that has been killing our people in the name of profits, so we should do something to placate the people. After all, they think it is a government "of the people, by the people and for the people."

YES TO GOVERNMENT UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION OF THE U.S.

My way or the highway. Excuse me while I stick this flag in your face, but the Republican loyalist rabble are the only real Americans. Anyone who disagrees with us are communists, or even worst, socialists.

YES TO TERM LIMITS

And I hate black people.

YES TO IMPEACHMENT IF THE IRRATIONAL SPENDING CONTINUES AND MORE JOBS ARE LOST ! ! ! ! !

Lets hang the n****r!

Posted by: DiscerningCitizen
with liberal interpretation by a more discerning citizen who family has lived in the hills of what is now called West Virginia for over 300 years.

Posted by: TheSimpleTruth | December 3, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Check out WSJ, 12/2/09 "ObamaCare At Any Cost". Anyone in favor of this healthcare bill, I suggest you read this article. This bill is not about constructive reform its about a government take over of the private industry - none of which is good for American citizens. The passing of this bill will increase premiums and costs due to increased taxes to all of us. You can't insure 31 million people without paying for it!
If you're wondering why we're at 10% unemployment, then pass this bill and watch it go up. Only American taxpayers will pay for this - not the senate, not the house. In addition to raising costs to Americans, this will also reduce the quality of care. Doctors will be inundated with patients and their fees will be significantly reduced - yes, through this bill. We'll lose great doctors now and have less in the future. If you think this is about political parties, you're wrong - it is all about the individual, hardworking citizens of our country. If you qualify for that group, then you should be very concerned right now.

Posted by: altonmj | December 3, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

TheSimpleTruth wrote:The Bill will pass with a public option.

Why?

Because we elected Barrack Obama.

John McCain is a disgusting human being.

The Republican Party is dead.

________________________________________________

I can see that you know the true record of the present occupant in the White House's baby extermination and the expansion of it which is why you voted for him

"Dr. Haskell went in with forceps and grabbed the baby's legs and pulled them down into the birth canal. Then he delivered the baby's body and the arms;everything but the head. The doctor kept the head right inside the uterus. The baby's little fingers were clasping and unclasping, and his little feet were kicking. Then the doctor stuck the scissors in the back of his head, and the baby's arms jerked out, like a startle reaction, like a flinch, like a baby does when he thinks he is going to fall....The doctor opened up the scissors, stuck a high-powered suction tube into the opening, and sucked the baby's brains out. Now the baby went completely limp. He cut the umbilical cord and delivered the placenta. He threw the baby in a pan, along with the placenta and the instruments he had just used."


After the ban was upheld on this hideous procedure in the court case Gonzales vs. Carhart also known as Gonzales vs. Planned Parenthood, which Planned Parenthood fought for, argued for, and lost all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, to continue this horrific killing, the present occupant in the White House stated:

"I am extremely concerned that [Gonzales v. Carhart] will embolden state legislatures to enact further measures to restrict a woman's right to choose, and that the conservative Supreme Court justices will look for other opportunities to erode Roe v. Wade."

Posted by: kwoods2 | December 3, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

altonmj,
I read the article in the Wall Street Journal.

The family and individual will be taxed more than they can bare and will be forced to pay a fine.

Posted by: kwoods2 | December 3, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Oops, should read:

The family and individual will be taxed more than they can bear and will be forced to pay a fine.

Posted by: kwoods2 | December 3, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

I just read the most recent Reuters poll which shows that almost 60% of those polled (59.something) favor a public option. So what does the Senate do? Diddle? And what does the GOP do? Put out manuals on how to stall.

I thought this was the United States of America. When the majority were elected to do something, the Senate rules should not be able to derail that. The people spoke. If 51 Senators would vote for the public option, there should be a public option.

Change the Senate rules or do this by reconciliation if necessary. It takes 60 votes in the Senate for them to decide to go to the bathroom. The people who write books about how to stall should not be allowed to defeat an elected majority or the 60% will of the people.

Posted by: tinyjab40 | December 3, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Have no fear. Health care is doomed because liberal Democrats insist on taxpayers paying to kill babies in the womb or demand a government health plan either of which offend some Democrats preventing a 60 vote Senate or a 218 vote House. Just relax and the pain will go away. Dr. Prognosis II.

Posted by: mascmen7 | December 3, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

before the debate goes any farther - there needs to be a consensus on ONE question of priorities.

all involved must decide which is more important-
physical health or fiscal health?

please answer the question so you can all move on.

SINCE THE ANSWER TO DEFICIT CUTS LIES TOTALLY IN THE MIDDLE TROOP NUMBER - I BELIEVE THIS BILL NEEDS TO ONLY ADDRESS PROVIDING ALL NECESSARY CARE TO ALL CITIZENS ALL THE TIME!

Posted by: boblesch | December 3, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

If you have noticed, the sell out of AARP is to tout their own supplemental insurance, probabaly to supplant the Medicare Advantage we currently have. But it will be totally out of our pockets, mark my words!

They are worse than the all the other insurance companies. But, I would not be shocked to find a well deserved knife in their backs from the double talking and double dealing Democrats that gave them some back room incentive to sell out. I will cheer loudly when that happens! But it might not. The leadership of AARP is made up almost completely of past Democratic Party Campaign Organizers. Like I think their bias is really for me over the Democratic Party!

I have not joined AARP, and now I doubt I ever will! I am glad this is all coming to light. We need a new organization. Any takers in setting one up?

Yeah. Cut $500 BILLION out of Medicare and we won't lose anything. Right! Do you horses rear ends think we were born yesterday? Obviously the 20-30 year crowd was, and think it will be better when they get to our age and have been screwed by the Government as often as we have. They will get it worse, I hope. The government will be so corrupt and bankrupt that all decent people with half a chance will leave to let those yahoos who are all for this right now rot in the sewer!

Posted by: Clearbrook | December 3, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

You know, I find it offensive that someone would call themselves "TheSimpleTruth" and would be so about ad hominen attacks and personal bigotry at an upprecidented level.

However, I am familiar with the pattern: Call your Group "People for Freedom and Equality" and you can be for anything but that. It is the the penultimate Liberal Strategy, and it works as long as enough people are stupid enough to not see what a sham it is. This person puts words in other peoples mouths in his/her own twisted manner and expects us to think anything they say could be even close to the truth? How droll...

Posted by: Clearbrook | December 3, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

@tinyjab40:

Check your polls again:

If they say 'public option' (as if anyone would still have a choice) there is only a very thin margin of support. Change the wording ever so slightly and call it 'Government Run Health Insurance' and that thin margin is replaced by a larger margin against. Change it to call it "Single Payer" (which many of us who are thinking about it really think the Democrats Aim is) and the margin becomes 62% against versus 27% for, better than a 2 to one margin against your pet position. (and *gasp!* only 34% of Democrats, the most supportive group, support a Single Payer system -- even they are that smart -- why aren't you, if you are such a big supporter of the mob rules?)

71% of americans are currently Angry at the Federal Government over this health care bill, either for being too Liberal or not Liberal enough. That is a tough place to be, but people like you are just as responsible as anyone like me you would want to accuse. So cut the crap.

Those Senators *should* take their sweet time on something this important and not take their 'Mandates' from someone just blowing their own little pathetic tin horn.

Posted by: Clearbrook | December 3, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

@ frankn1

Obviously, in your mind *everything* should be run by the Government. In my view, the only mandate that government *should* have is the controled use of coercive force. Make regulations to control those out of control. Force compliance with safety and the general social good by regulating those that provide anything. If they can't regulate something properly, what makes you think they could actually administer it any better? Think about that for just one moment and you will realize (at least I hope you are smart enough to do that) just how much that position defies any logical explanation or support.

Certainly, I accept that the Government *can* do more than what is mandated. It at times makes sense, but usually only for a limited duration.

The problem is how to deal with any Government Entity once Corruption and Inefficiencey inevitably take hold. Name one good example where we have been able to do anything of the sort as means of *effective* correction other than by totally eliminating the Entity and I'll call that a bona fide miracle!

Posted by: Clearbrook | December 3, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

@ConcernedCitizen46:

Gee, I know my spelling can be bad at times, but get a grip!

"The fact is that this country needs responsible health care reform that must include a public option, without which, there will be no incentive for health insurance companies to reduce premiums."

Must is a very strong word.

I Say they Must revoke all anti-trust law exemptions for the Health Care industry at large.

Fifty-seven percent (57%) of voters nationwide favor limiting the amount of money a jury can award a plaintiff in a medical malpractice lawsuit. I say they Must do that as well.

If not for one thing, I'd support a 'public option' as viable. It is called mandated fee schedules.

The Govenment (look at Medicare and Medicade for examples) mandates what they will pay for any given procedure. Usually, that results in financial loss for the provider. They make it up by passing the cost on to Private Inusurance Claimants. Surprise! One cause of rising health care costs!

Do two things:

1) Make Government fee schedules subject to review by an independant panel and even challengable in court if it rises to that level.

2) Make the fees that the Government Mandates available for all, whether paying directly or through any other insurance.

Do that, and I can get on board. Lacking that, no way. By the way, as reasonable as I may sound to you, try to convince any Democrat to go for these sound proposals and you will get nowhere. Know why? Because the unfair advantage and cost transfereance phenomenon is exactly what they are *depending* upon to turn 'de jure' public option into a 'de facto' Single Payer system.

My suggestion ensures that the public option will push health care costs down only by how efficiently the Government can adminster their plan. If the private industry is so bad, that should not be a problem to you.

Personally, I give them 10 years before their bureaucracy will make them so inefficient, that something will be looking to replace them. It will make headlines for the next generation to get excited about.

Posted by: Clearbrook | December 3, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Harry and his minions do not even have a clue how this Bill is going to impact the average american, their employers or the physicians who are out in the trenches trying to keep their heads above water. If this is such a great "Bill" why doesn't he include himself and all of Congress to be covered by it? I wonder how he would stammer about that one - similarly to how Mr. Holder stammered and had a blank look when Lindsay Graham asked him a question that certainly a ranking Attorney General should have had the answer to. Shameful!!

Posted by: nancycrichton | December 3, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

The House Appropriations leader David Obey D-Wis. is going to tax the taxpayer as low as $30,000 to help fund the war effort but going to give away healthcare without co-pays to 13 million illegal immigrants from around the world for free with no questions asked costing a Trillion dollars. That sure to win that War at the boarder. But that's what you get when Fed. and State grants fund their lobbist groups by 50%.

Posted by: bcooper530 | December 4, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

All of this non-sense is just a waste, even if it does pass the word is it will be dismantled after the 2012 elections and rightly so.

Posted by: netnews1 | December 5, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

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