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Posted at 10:44 AM ET, 10/26/2006

'Lost': Episode 4 Dueling Analyses

By Liz Kelly

With two episodes left in the six-story fall mini-season, washingtonpost.com Movies editor Jen Chaney and I get into it over last night's revelations and reveal where we stand on the great Jack/Sawyer divide.


Sawyer (Josh Holloway) -- despite all his rage, he's still just a rat in a cage. (Photo courtesy ABC)

Liz: Okay, I'd like to start by personally extending my thanks to J.J. Abrams, Josh Holloway, Bill Duke and the fine citizens of Hawaii for making last night's episode possible because it more than made up for the last couple of weeks of lost momentum (no pun intended). So much rich material -- we had Sawyer with his back up, Kate declaring her love for him (under duress), Jack figuring out another piece of the puzzle, some masterful sadistic manipulation from Ben and a little help triangulating the whereabouts of the Others' prison compound.

Okay, first off: Desmond lives. There was some speculation following last week's episode that Desmond was only visible to Hurley. Tonight we saw him engaging with at least three other characters and, thankfully, no longer swanning around in an oversized tie-dyed shirt. We also saw him using his ability to predict the future again. This time, by saving Claire and baby from a bolt of lightning. But that was really incidental to the meat of tonight's story, going on at the Others' compound. What'd you think of the main event, Jen?

Jen: I agree, best episode of the season so far. It's the first one this year that kept me more focused on the action and basic plot than the cryptic clues and biblical references embedded in the story.

But speaking of biblical references, there's clearly something mystical happening with Desmond. He saves baby Aaron (same name as brother of Moses, if memory serves) from being struck by lightning. Clearly he is a prophet or seer of some kind. I wasn't sure whether to consult my Old Testament or give a shout-out to the writers for the obvious "Back to the Future" reference. Desmond can travel ahead in time. And Marty's DeLorean could go from 1955 to 1985 with a little help from a lightning bolt and a crazy dude named Doc.

Liz: Let's not forget that Aaron was also Elvis's middle name. Dismissed as coincidence.

But what about the action with Jack, Sawyer and Kate?

Much more after the jump...

Jen: I can't believe that after four years as an English major, I'm really regretting that I never read "Of Mice and Men." Really would have come in handy during tonight's episode.

Oh, and kudos to whoever came up with Sawyer's nicknames tonight: Chinatown. Costanza. Pure genius.

The storyline with the trio was pretty intense. I personally never thought they had really inserted the pacemaker into Sawyer's chest, though I appreciated the "Pulp Fiction" reference that scene invoked. I'm still not convinced he hasn't been bugged or something; was it me, or could Jack still hear Sawyer talking even after he was back in the cage?

Also, tonight's episode suggests that Kate effectively chose Jack. She may have said she loved Sawyer, but when Sawyer insists "Every man for himself," what was her reply? "Live together, die alone." The words of the doctor himself.

Liz: Just to touch back on the Desmond thing quickly -- there is indeed something happening there and I think it serves as a good reminder that although the Others seem to hold the upper hand right now, there is a larger force at play on the island(s). Next week's preview hinted "the island gets restless." That sounds like something out of the control of both the Losties and the Others.

Jen: In the preview, random new girl Nikki seems to gasp when she sees someone on the monitor in one of the other stations. Could it be someone else who's in charge?

I personally can't believe there are only two episodes left in the six-episode arc. Are we really supposed to wait three months for more "Lost"? Especially when it's just getting good?

Liz: Wait a minute. Stop. Back up. Kate did not choose Jack. Sure, she was basically forced into saying she loves Sawyer, but she only took it back when he came back from his sojourn inside with a watch and refusing to let her in. She felt locked out of his heart, so she locked him out of hers. If she had chosen Jack she would've left. She would've gone in search of him. She chose to stay with Sawyer because he's the one she loves. Nyah!

If it makes you feel any better, I was an English major for five years and also never read "Of Mice and Men." Somewhere, someone responsible for college curricula is shuddering.

Jen: Clearly we both went to shoddy universities. (Also really wish I had paid more attention during my "Bible as Literature" class.)

All right, maybe I overstated things about her choosing Jack. Maybe she said that just to bug Sawyer, knowing he'd get the reference and be irked by it. I still think she's very conflicted. Her instincts may draw her to Sawyer, but Jack is the man the better part of herself wants to be with. I think that's fair to say.

Geez, Josh Holloway is hot and all, but Matthew Fox is hardly a stale fish biscuit.

What do you make of Ben's tumor?

Liz: Ben's tumor... more to come on this one, for sure. My first reaction was... huh? Did they crash an entire plane just to get a spinal surgeon on the island? I quickly dismissed that, but it is yet another unexplained coincidence.

Jen: It certainly explains why Ben Gale is so interested in Jack and why he has focused on convincing him to cooperate. I also think Locke plays into this somehow. Henry/Ben knew about the conflict between them and I think he knows Locke will eventually come to Others Island to find them. Maybe Jack is the physical healer, and Locke the spiritual one?

More importantly, I think Others Island should be the next new ride at Disney World...

Liz: Would the ride simulate the plane crash or getting chased by black smoke?

Jen: If it's a decent ride, both. Thrill seekers would also get chased by polar bears, injected with random syringes and forced to eat breakfast with freaky guys who like to pretend they're named after characters from "The Wizard of Oz."

Makes the teacups sound pretty tame.

Liz: Let's talk about Juliet. She was on a self-revelatory roll tonight. She not only told Jack she doesn't work for Ben, but also confided in him that she's a fertility doctor. This was, of course, following the death of Colleen (aka "Deadwood's" Trixie) on the operating room table. (An aside: To all those out there convinced that the Others are ETs, does the very human death of one after a gunshot wound change your mind at all?) Still, it seems as if Juliet is on the verge of gaining Jack's trust, or vice versa. She also defied Ben by bringing Jack to the O.R. in the first place in a bid to save Colleen's life. She clearly valued life more than whatever the master Other plan is here. I'm wondering if that move was designed to make us trust her. I'm wary, but open.

Jen: Agreed on the alien thing. If Colleen were an E.T., she would have come back to life on the operating table, and then used her Speak and Spell to contact her home planet.

I also think we are supposed to trust Juliet. (Then again, I'm notoriously gullible.) But really, from minute one of this season, her character has been presented as conflicted and clearly of her own mind. If she's a fertility doctor, it seems her goal must be to perpetuate life on Others Island. Ben, as lifelong resident and president of the homeowners association, must share that goal. But somewhere, the two split.

Liz: We also learned that Sawyer has a daughter named Clementine. Which would be a perfect name if she were the daughter of Kim Dickens's character on "Deadwood." I guess Jayden would've seemed too "ripped from the headlines."

And re: Ben -- Michael Emerson deserves some big props for his continued nuanced work here. He's by turns accommodating and terrifying. He's kind of like "Lost's" very own Kevin Spacey. Last night he again swung to both extremes -- first acting the maniac by rattling that poor rabbit over Sawyer's chest, then at the end, seeming almost likeable trading those inscrutable "Of Mice and Men" references. Still, his ability to turn on and off the charm (and con the likes of Sawyer) is exactly what makes him so dangerous.

Jen: I agree; Emerson has been consistently brilliant. Which must mean he'll never get an Emmy nomination.

I especially liked that he insisted to Sawyer that he didn't harm the rabbit, then immediately stuffed it back into his knapsack so the poor thing would suffocate to death. (Damon Lindelof, please tell me no actual bunnies were harmed during the making of this episode.)

The name Clementine reminds me of Kate Winslet's character in "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind." And she had her memories erased as part of a strange scientific procedure. That's probably meaningless, but just throwin' it out there...

Liz: Well, Clementine also happens to be the name of Cybill Shepherd's daughter and Shepherd's show "Moonlighting" was, coincidentally, on ABC, too. If Agnes DiPesto wanders into camp next week, I so called it.

Seriously, though, with only two episodes left before the hiatus, we should expect some interesting twists over the next couple of weeks. For instance, the tantalizing "face in the video monitor" you mentioned earlier. I tried to rewind and freeze frame but, of course, my DVR chose to choke just at that moment. I suspect a conspiracy.

Till next week, then?

Jen: Yes, indeed. Just want to close with a few lingering questions that galloped through my mind tonight...

-- After being butt-naked last week, where did Desmond get that perfectly fitting blue button-down?

-- Why did it take Kate four episodes to realize she could just pop out of the top of her cage?

-- And how did Hurley learn how to make such a lovely fruit salad?

If I don't get an answers on that fruit salad question next week, that's it. I stop watching the show.

Liz: My question is: If the second island is so close to the original, why haven't the Losties noticed it -- especially Sun, Jin and Sayid, who have sailed around it in a sailboat? Is there some kind of cloaking device shielding it from view?

More mysteries...

Next Week
"The Cost of Living": A delirious Eko wrestles with demons from his past, while Locke and some of the other castaways head back to The Pearl -- one of the Dharma Initiative's island stations -- hoping to find a computer that they can use to locate Jack, Kate and Sawyer. Meanwhile, Jack doesn't know whom to trust when two of "The Others" seem at odds with one another. (From ABC's press release)

P.S. Anyone succumbed to the NSA recruiting ad yet?

P.S.S. Check out this video on Sawyer's "softer" side.

By Liz Kelly  | October 26, 2006; 10:44 AM ET
Categories:  Lost, TV  
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Comments

So the island can heal Locke's paralysis and Rose's Cancer, but it can't heal Ben? Riggght.

The writing on this show is getting sloppy. Bring back the Season 1 writers!

Posted by: Tirade | October 26, 2006 9:47 AM | Report abuse

I could've sworn the "face in the video monitor" was a pirate, complete with an eye-patch. Maybe I'm wrong about the pirate (unless he's 200 years old and got stuck there with the Black Rock ship) but I'm almost certain I saw an eye patch.

Posted by: DC Losty | October 26, 2006 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Liz. I might be wrong, but I thought Kate both declared her love for her Sawyer and took it back after the watch/pacemaker sojourn, not before and after. I didn't put too much into her declaration, though, seeing as it was given after such duress. People want this love triangle, but, eh, there are way more important things happening. ... As for "Ben's tumor." Yeah, it seems like it could be being set up that way, but the guy sure can move for someone with a mass on his spine.

Posted by: A to Zinc | October 26, 2006 9:56 AM | Report abuse

The whole reason that Henry wanted the boat was so they couldn't, find, rescue Sawyer Kate & Jack.

To tirade: There's obviously something natural and supernatural about the island. Ben may have cancer, but the island may not work on him since he lived there all his life. I don't think they changed writers, did they? Either way: patience grasshopper.

My biggest complaint: Flashbacks don't fit the main story. Maybe time to either do away with them, or just spend more time on them.

Posted by: 2nd Island | October 26, 2006 9:57 AM | Report abuse

The show continues to pose more questions and answers less. Everytime it looks as if they are about to answer a question, they jump to commercial. BTW...how can they not see the other island from their beach, impossible unless they have the cape of Frodo Baggins from Lord of the Rings convering that island. Can anyone see the Shark beginning to jump.

Posted by: Sandman | October 26, 2006 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I think Ban & Co. are pulling a double scam on Sawyer. I think they and the Losties are onthe SAME island. Remember during epsisode 1, when they zoomed away from the other's village, you could see the plane burning on the beach. Thus, the others and the losties are on the SAME island. Secondly, when Sun, Jin and Sayid sail to the "dock", or old ferry port, you can see the other island in the background, correct?

I also think Juliet's comingot Jack was a set up. The chick was dead, and Jack knew it and said it. They are trying to get his trust. Why else would Ben "keep him in there" after the event?

Posted by: DR | October 26, 2006 10:01 AM | Report abuse

You're way off, DC. The guy in the monitor was Ross Perot - look closely. There's a third island.

Posted by: Corndogger | October 26, 2006 10:02 AM | Report abuse

1. There was an eyepatch. Definitely saw it.
2. Hadn't thought about the island healing thingie.
3. Desmond could have gotten clothes from the airplane luggage or the hatch.
4. 4 episodes could only equal one or two days. Also, she had a few things on her mind.
5. Dude, have you *seen* Hurley? I'm sure he knows how to prepare a few dishes.
6. Got to be a cloaking device of some sort. Otherwise it would just be stupid.

Then again, if they had checked around the whole island as I have been saying since about the 3rd episode of season 1, they would have found the Others already, seen the island, found Rousseau earlier, found the Tailies and the hatches, yada yada yada. My wife says, and I'm starting to agree, the series will probably end with the whole gang wandering to the other side of the island and finding a Club Med.

Posted by: fft5305 | October 26, 2006 10:03 AM | Report abuse

This episode sucked. The whole point seemed to be to let viewers know there is a second island. Oh yeah, and that Sawyer is gullible enough to think that moments after having open heart surgery he's up and feeling fine. His gritted teeth delivery and cutsey nicknames grate on my nerves. The next two eps better be unbelieveable....

Posted by: Blech | October 26, 2006 10:07 AM | Report abuse

This show is getting too dopey for me. I'm outta here!

Posted by: Fred | October 26, 2006 10:07 AM | Report abuse

3. Desmond could have gotten clothes from the airplane luggage or the hatch.

The hatch imploded.

Posted by: No mo hatch | October 26, 2006 10:08 AM | Report abuse

I agree with some of the TV.com comments, the plot needs to progress. We have 4 episodes with kate and Sawyer in the cages, and Jack shuffled accross the complex.

Do any of the web sites show a timeline of events after and before the crash?

Posted by: dr | October 26, 2006 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Am I the only one who missed the whole lightening rod saves Aaron bit? I didn't get that at all, nor take it to mean that Desmond can see into the future...

Posted by: Beth | October 26, 2006 10:09 AM | Report abuse

The fertility Doctor does help make some sense of things. The Others have kidnapped kids, and tried to get Claire's baby (pre-birth.)

So the Others are sterile, so Juliette is there to help them procreate, fails, so they resort to kidnapping their next generation.

Posted by: Buck Dharma | October 26, 2006 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Three points that I think were worth keeping in mind for future shows:

1) Near the end Ben says to Sawyer that he is a good con man, but they are better. Why are the Others such good con men/women? Was the girl Jack tried to save really dead?

2) The dead girl's boyfriend goes nuts when she dies. He goes out to Sawyer and beats him up but only asks one question: Do you love her? It seemed to me that he was frustrated at playing these games (cons) and just wanted to get the answer the easy way. So the reason Sawyer and Kate are locked up within sight of each other is to determine through subtle manipulation where they love each other. Why the con? Why play these deadly games? Maybe its the only real way to determine the truth, just as Sawyer used his con to determine the location of the other inmate's money. If you want the truth, you need to con it out of people not willing to give you the truth.

3) Desmond predicts the bolt of lightning. I'm still not convinced he can see into the future as we understand what that means. I think that what is happening is all events on the island are being controlled and they are preplanned. Desmond may have been conditioned to react in certain ways when a preplanned event occurs. What may be happening is that Desmond has found a way to use the knowledge placed in him by whoever is creating this "game" we call Lost. He may interpret it as seeing into the future, but what he is actually doing is tapping into the cues planted in him about planned events. His saving of the baby may have been one of the planned events. He seems amused that his insight was real. The question in my mind is whether his ability to now know the next planned event was done on purpose so it would seem he could see into the future, or whether its a mistake, something not planned and could unravel the plans of whoever is controlling the events. Also, he did not see a "bolt of lightning". He forsaw a roof needing repair, which Charlie rightly pointed out was not in need of repair. He eventually figured out the roof was hit by lightning and set up the lightning rod. So his ability to see in the future is not necessarily crystal clear. Repairing the roof may have been his pre-planned task after the planned bolt of lightning. Now that he can see these preplanned tasks he's been conditioned to react to, he can prepare for them. Well, anyway, its a better theory than really seeing into the future.

Posted by: Sully | October 26, 2006 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Holy cow! Best episode yet this season. This is easily the most intriguing show on television.

Posted by: Jake | October 26, 2006 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Tirade wrote:
--So the island can heal Locke's paralysis and Rose's Cancer, but it can't heal Ben? Riggght.--

Its becoming clear to me the Losties were being manipulated long before they got on the plane. Locke's paralysis and Rose's cancer may not have been real, just planted as part of this con game the island and Others continue to play. If the island had the ability to heal, there would not be the buried bodies the Losties and Others keep burying.

Posted by: Sully | October 26, 2006 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Clearly (in my mind anyway) the Losties and the Others are of the same family. The Losties (Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Locke, maybe Hurley) are progeny of former island inhabitants who left years before. They're all in their 30s which would make them either babies or newborns during 70s like most of the infrastructure on the island.

There is some kind of human cloning or genetic research dating back to the 70s going on here. Note the "super" strength of the Others. Even the women seem stronger than the Lostie men. Juliet put a nasty smack-down on Jack in the water, remember?

Walter's mother was probably an island person and so is the father of Claire's (that's her name, right?) baby.

The other Losties just happened to be on the plane.

Posted by: Patrick | October 26, 2006 10:22 AM | Report abuse

ok, one wierd observation. The girl who dies, Colleen: In the last episode, didn't she call that one bully "daddy"? And in yesterday's episode, did not the bully say she was his "wife" during the ER drama? Is this right? (of course it's not right, I mean correct info!)

Posted by: dr | October 26, 2006 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Am I the only one who caught the reference to a "sub?" at one point, I think it was when Juliet was in there w/Jack, they came in and got her and said "the sub is back." At first I thought it was some kind of threat to the Others, but it was the Others who went to the boat getting back with the wounded Colleen. they returned from Losties Island on a submarine, was what i got out of it. that would explain how they get back and forth w/out a boat.

Posted by: b | October 26, 2006 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Re: Beth

I think Lost might be a bit over your head, and that's pretty pathetic.

Posted by: Yancy | October 26, 2006 10:34 AM | Report abuse

I think the "sub" is the Other's sub, used to go to the other island and collect Collene. The sub was back with Collene. So the Others have a sub. Not too shabby.

Posted by: Sully | October 26, 2006 10:45 AM | Report abuse

You know, the action seems to be coming in dribs and drabs, but if you think about it, we've really learned a lot of things since the beginning of this season.

Here's a few comments:

#1: The Others have a submarine. When Ben came in to Jack's cell to speak to Juliette (before the opening credits), he said, "the Sub is back." Rewind it and listen for yourselves.

#2. Stop arguing about it - Desmond can definitely see into the future. We found this out last week, and this week's episode confirms it. Face it folks, there is no other reasonable explanation for these scenes. He has only seen a few hours ahead in both of these cases, though. The reason he made up that story about Claire's roof is that he doesn't want to say to her, "I can see into the future," so he needs to make up an excuse. Next, he goes out and builds a lightning rod. OBVIOUSLY, he saw that Claire's hut was going to be struck by lightning. Also, notice that the future is NOT preordained; Desmond was able to affect what happened based on his foreknowledge.

My theory: Desmond acquired this capability only recently, based on the way he seems to be tentatively checking out his new abilities. I think that this had something to do with his proximity to the core at the time he turned the failsafe key.

#3. The backstory DID relate directly to last night's episode. It shows that Sawyer tries to live by the code of "never let anyone get close to you so that someone else can use them as leverage against you." In the flashback it's Clementine, and in the present it's Kate. Sawyer is too good a guy to really live by this code (he makes arrangements for Clementine, and he allows the Others to use threats against Kate to modify his behavior).

Pay attention to the backstories - they are ALWAYS directly related to the current story! If you don't see the connection, you are not looking hard enough.

#4. You can't tell one way or the other whether there are two islands at this point. When someone says to you, "we've been conning you all along," take the next thing they tell you with a grain of salt.

#5. Does anyone remember that last season, someone (Eko?) found a glass eye in the Tail section hatch? The guy with the eyepatch in next week's preview is someone important (maybe Alvar Hanso himself?), and they've been setting up his appearance for quite some time now...

Finally, in the preview for next week's episode, it appears that the pickaxe which hits Eko upside the head is the same pickaxe the Other (the guy whose wife died) threatens Sawyer with. This might be just a red herring thrown in by thr producers, though...

Posted by: Steve | October 26, 2006 10:46 AM | Report abuse

I thought the face in the monitor was an alien (a "grey")--probably one with 4 toes on each foot.

Posted by: Jacob | October 26, 2006 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Liz wrote, that her DVR choked when she tried to replay next week's preview...

MINE DID TOO!!! There must be some HUGE conspiracy.

Posted by: CDL | October 26, 2006 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Oh no, not "greys"! If Lost is heading there I'll be disappointed. I'd much prefer this all being of human design. Once you throw in aliens, who cares anymore?

Posted by: Sully | October 26, 2006 10:57 AM | Report abuse

This means that the polar bears have been (or are currently) on both islands. There are bear cages on the small, prison island. The others have made reference to the bears being in those cages. There are also bears on the main island. For instance, Locke burned one in a cave last week. Have all the bears been transported at some point? Are there bears on both islands? Can these bears swim?

Posted by: Hoffman | October 26, 2006 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Looks like Che is off the medication again ... or maybe a failed experiment/escapee from the island?

Posted by: ImBack | October 26, 2006 11:00 AM | Report abuse

2 things:

Did anyone note a possibly play on words by Ben in the "Previously on Lost" part? When Jack asked what was expected of him, Ben told him "patience"....perhaps it was also meant to be "patients"? Just a thought ;)

Also, as to Desmond's clothes....if the Others can find the perfect hip-hugger jeans for Kate to wear, then Desmond can find the perfect blue shirt to make him look yummy-ish :D

Posted by: Chasmosaur | October 26, 2006 11:01 AM | Report abuse

How far has this show fallen that the big reveals of the episode were so terribly telegraphed and the answers given were not remotely interesting. I just don't have the energy to complain about this show anymore.

Posted by: Chris | October 26, 2006 11:07 AM | Report abuse

First off, videotape Lost and watch the weird segments again before you hit the boards, it REALLY saves time, I started it and it works.

Secondly, Sawyer's victim conned him into believing they had a child. Remember, she was the one who wanted to get into the con game. Please people, this is Lost, you know?

Posted by: Bethesdan | October 26, 2006 11:15 AM | Report abuse

IMHO the Losties are already in the afterlife. They did not survive the plane crash, but are in some kind of purgatory.

Posted by: John Gillnitz | October 26, 2006 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Patrick's comments about the Losties being the progeny of the Island is the most interesting thing I've read about the show. If the Others are trying to get two Losties to procreate, they might have to determine if Kate loves Jack or Sawyer more. They don't know about Sun's pregnancy yet. This warrants more thought.

Posted by: scandibaby | October 26, 2006 11:32 AM | Report abuse

I think the spinal x-rays are Locke's, not Ben's. The giant tumor would FINALLY explain why Locke was in the wheelchair. The Others had an etire file on Jack and lots of information on everyone else, why not Locke's x-rays.

Posted by: CJ-ATC | October 26, 2006 11:39 AM | Report abuse

It is hard to beleive that there are multiple islands. First, between the 2 lost groups on different sides of the island and our sailing adevnture, you would think they would have observed enough area to be able to confirm a second, smaller island.

Secondly, there has been no mention of a boat or sub that took jack, sawyer and kate to the compound that is on a different island. You would think that one of the three would have some recollection of being on vessel during transport. If it turns out to be a second island, shame on the losties for their horrible recon attempts. You figure one of the first things you want to do is circumnavigate the island, either on foot or with your now non-existent boat.

sawyer is growing on me, but maybe thats because they have been cramming him down our throats. Lets get back to the good characters; ecko, locke, sayid and hurley.

Posted by: Jon | October 26, 2006 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Just came across this site and thought it would be helpful to all looking for clues.

http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/

Posted by: anon | October 26, 2006 11:40 AM | Report abuse

How is is possible that the other's island can't be seen from the losties beach? We've seen shots of the ocean, and there never appears to be another island there.

Could the beach that Ben showed Sawyer isn't the same beach?

Posted by: Waldo | October 26, 2006 11:50 AM | Report abuse

My initial reaction when I heard the "the sub is back," was of a subject (as in a test subject). Submarine seems more logical - but maybe to logical. Could Walt be back?

Posted by: mo | October 26, 2006 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I mentioned two weeks ago that the Others might be trying to fix Sawyer and Kate up (or resolve the love triangle between the three of them), but I am starting to believe differently now. I think that Kate is simply the lever the Others need to force Sawyer (and/or Jack) to carry out the plans they have in mind. Now we know why they wanted Jack - so he can operate on Ben, assuming that this is not just another con. As we learned this week, the Others have a specific need for Sawyer and know that they can use Kate as a tool to manage him.

I have a hard time buying the "progeny of the island" theory. Rose and Bernard have to be at least in their 50s while Claire is in her 20s, and Locke doesn't look to me like any spring chicken. There are definitely lots of off-island connections between the castaways (e.g. is Claire Jack's sister?), but I think that there is not a lot of evidence for the progeny theory at this point. Not that it isn't true, but where's the evidence?

I recently went back and watched Claire's episode from the first season (episode 1x10, "Raised by Another"). This episode is definitely worth watching - it is packed full of clues. Not only does this episode contain Claire's dream sequence with Locke, but her conversations with the psychic, and her eventual realization of why he put her on the plane, are definitely worth a second look. This was personally my favorite episode of Lost (I am still waiting for Locke to show up with one black eye and one white one in a future episode), and I am convinced that Aaron is central to everything which is going on with the island.

By the way, when Jack said that Colleen "was already dead," he didn't mean literally. Her heart didn't stop beating until Jack was working on her. Personally, I think that the Others would have a tough time pulling over a con like that on a guy like Jack - I'm pretty sure he can tell a live body from a dead one...

Posted by: Steve | October 26, 2006 11:56 AM | Report abuse

People, people, if you have any questions, you can go to abc.com and view the Lost episodes again and again for free! I've used this to catch up on other shows that I have missed. I think they only have this season's episodes, but still, you could watch them and answer some of your own questions.

Posted by: Lisa | October 26, 2006 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Best episode of the season? Really?

If I wanted to watch people beat each other up for no real reason, I'd watch cop shows.

The answers were useless. The Jack/Sawyer/Kate as captives storyline is distracting. The increased role of the Others is totally disappointing. The introduction of new characters without moving along the stories of the old ones is poor storytelling.

Will I keep watching? I'll finish out these six, but I seriously doubt it will be enough to hold my interest for three months.

Posted by: C | October 26, 2006 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Locke in his 30s? I think not....he's in his 50s. So how can his parents be from the island?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 26, 2006 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Most people who read Of Mice and Men read it first in high school, not college.

Posted by: Your Mom | October 26, 2006 12:04 PM | Report abuse

...a miner, 49er, and his daughter Clementine.

Oh my darling, oh my darling, oh my darling Clementine
She was LOST and gone forever
Dreadful sorry, Clementine.

Posted by: Clem | October 26, 2006 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Okay, here's my theory. The island (and I do believe there is only one), is magnetized which explains all the "healing" properties, the fact that the plane crashed, the reason why no one can find them, the reason the Others can't procreate (changed their cellular structure), and why Walt and his Dad won't be able to get far away from the island - no compasses that work, and on and on. Go here to learn more about magnetic healing: http://www.healingtherapies.info/magnetic_healing.htm

Posted by: Lisa | October 26, 2006 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and one more thing - if the one thing that would have saved Colleen - electric paddles - then why didn't anybody use the devices that they are going around shocking Sawyer with to jump start her heart? Okay, I know Jack said she was already dead, but still, it would have been worth a shot. Or a shock.

Posted by: Lisa | October 26, 2006 12:17 PM | Report abuse

a) Polar bears are excellent swimmers, if it matters.

b) The "main" Lost island is quite large. No member of either castaway group has actually circumnavigated it. All the trips to the "other side" have been through the forest, and the only attempts to circle the island that we really know about have been Sayid's walk (quickly derailed by Rousseau), and the recent sailboat trip, which stopped when it got to the dock. It's entirely possible that a small offshore island exists in an area where the castaways haven't seen it yet. I'm not saying it's a certainty, but it's definitely not "impossible" as some people are claiming.

c) Could someone please remove the political spam from the thread?

Posted by: Nate | October 26, 2006 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I thought I saw myself in the Video Monitor; so perhaps my cloak was turned off! Oops!!

Posted by: Grey | October 26, 2006 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Sawyer, Sawyer and more Sawyer. I am a happy girl (yup, I like 'em bad). And as a bonus not just Trixie (dead though she was) but also Joanie from Deadwood.

OK, now the important stuff. The 3 Losties on the prison island were all transported unconscious, so there's no reason they couldn't have been moved by boat or sub (I thought I heard "the son is back" but I rely on those with TiVo and time for accuracy.)

Unless there's a "lost" Lost episode, noby has bothered to map the island yet, and there's been no circumnavigation by boat or on foot. If the Losties island is as big as it's seemed to me to be, the prison island just might be somethign they haven't seen (yet).

I'm off to hunt for eggs...

Posted by: KiKi | October 26, 2006 12:22 PM | Report abuse

This show is at the end of the line. I watched since ep. 1 and loved it when it was a show about suriving on a deserted island after a horrific plane crash. The few spiritual elements etc were cool in that they made it seem to have bigger themes. Now it's some poor-man's X-files, sci-fi geek fest. Who cares about the others? Do any of the crash survivors even want to go home any more? This is lame. I'll try these last two episodes but after that, I'm not sure I'll come back in February....

Posted by: Bitter | October 26, 2006 12:23 PM | Report abuse

It's the same island. Sawyer was just shown the spot where the actual mirage of the actual island is reflected back.

Posted by: Mirror | October 26, 2006 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Quit stealing my stories!?

Posted by: Dr. Who | October 26, 2006 12:29 PM | Report abuse

For Heaven's sake. If polar bears can roam a south Pacific island, then it's completely believable that the losties can't see Others Island from their island! Suspend disbelief! Have patience! You guys want all the answers now. Fast food, fast cars, fast life, fast answers.

Posted by: Adrasteia | October 26, 2006 12:38 PM | Report abuse

"I think the spinal x-rays are Locke's, not Ben's. The giant tumor would FINALLY explain why Locke was in the wheelchair. The Others had an etire file on Jack and lots of information on everyone else, why not Locke's x-rays."

Oooh. Good call. Perhaps the Others are unaware of the cancer curing properties of the island. So while checking out everybody that survived the plane crash, they became confused when seeing a paralyzed man walking, got his medical record, and were busy evaluating them. (and hoping that it might give them clues about their infertility.)


Or perhaps, it's just another con by the others. They had every intention of letting Jack "accidentally" see the x-rays to throw him off the trail.

Posted by: Buck Dharma | October 26, 2006 12:44 PM | Report abuse

--Most people who read Of Mice and Men read it first in high school, not college.--

My 9th grade daughter is reading it now. Can't wait for her to finish it so I can read it! At least I can now prove to her that what she is learning in school will be useful in her adult life. Thank you Lost!

Posted by: Sully | October 26, 2006 12:46 PM | Report abuse

So if the Others can come and go to the real world, they showed some proof to Jack, and they are getting books for the their book club. Why don't they just go to a Hospital in the real world for treatment of Cancer? They don't even have shock paddles, doesn't sound like a place to have a safe surgery...

Posted by: Hiker | October 26, 2006 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Adrasteia,

Some of us just want a decent story while we wait for the writers pull an answer out of the air.

Posted by: Chris | October 26, 2006 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I agree, too, that there is only one Island. Ben is just messin' with Sawyer. The shore they looked at could be a peninsula out from the island.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 26, 2006 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I think Megan Gallagher (as Catherine Black) should walk out of the forest, completely cured of the Marburg virus she got in Millennium. Then she should kick Locke's 54-year-old a**.

And they're on Oahu, but in purgatory. Once Kate/Jack/Sawyer fall in love (in whatever combo), they are so dead like Shannon.

Posted by: jakemd | October 26, 2006 12:50 PM | Report abuse

When the last season ended, did they show Desmond's girlfriend getting a call from some sailors informing her they had found him???? What happened to that?

Posted by: Sylvia | October 26, 2006 12:53 PM | Report abuse

A. My two bit public high school in NJ was apparently better than your colleges/universities. I thought nearly every literate high schooler had to read at least the Cliff Notes (of the less than 200 page!) of Of Mice and Men.

How can the survivors not see the island? Ummm. Maybe that's not the same beach where they live. The island's roughly a circle, and the Other's island is probably on the opposite side of the survivor's beach. Much like how I can't see Kent Island from when I'm lookin East from Ocean City.

The X-Ray. It could be anyone's. They got all of Jack's records, they could have gotten anyone elses, too. How about Locke's?

Posted by: Kim | October 26, 2006 12:56 PM | Report abuse

--Okay, here's my theory. The island (and I do believe there is only one), is magnetized which explains all the "healing" properties, the fact that the plane crashed, the reason why no one can find them, the reason the Others can't procreate (changed their cellular structure), and why Walt and his Dad won't be able to get far away from the island - no compasses that work, and on and on. Go here to learn more about magnetic healing: http://www.healingtherapies.info/magnetic_healing.htm--

Magnetic healing is bunk. Proven bunk. As for the plane crash, a large magentic field would do little to an aluminum plane thought it might knock out the computers and other devices. I really doubt it would break the plane in two. You'll have to explain why magnetism is the reason no one can find them. You can see through magnetic fields. You're doing it now through the earth's field, and if you can't procreate in a magnetic field, well, we wouldn't be here talking about it.

Now the idea that Michael and Walt may not be able to navigate their boat given that Ben gave them a compass heading to follow is interesting. It also may be why Desmond ended up back on the island. I guess we'll be seeing Michael and Walt again. And, given the twists in this story, I will not be surprised if Walt brings the boat back on purpose.

Posted by: Sully | October 26, 2006 12:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm not saying that Magnetic Healing works - I'm just saying that it will explain a lot of questions people have about Lost. When the plane crashed, Desmond said that is the one time when he didn't push the button. The same button that controls the magnetic field. When Desmond's girlfriend heard "we found him" it's because whatever magnetic field surrounding the island was shut off - allowing the outside world to "see" the island, if only briefly. I'm just saying that this will be the writers' explanation for everything going on. And they will probably say that polar bears hang out at the poles because of the magnetization there, too, and that's why they hang out on the island.

Posted by: Lisa | October 26, 2006 1:04 PM | Report abuse

--Why don't they just go to a Hospital in the real world for treatment of Cancer? They don't even have shock paddles, doesn't sound like a place to have a safe surgery...--

I think these Others are stuck on the island. A couple of theories:
1) There is this virus we keep hearing about. Maybe they are immune but carriers and cannot leave without infecting the rest of humanity.
2) The virus is protective, giving them health and youth. These may be the original Dharma members that have not aged. The Hanso Foundation refers to the extention of life as one of its goals. Maybe if they leave the island they will begin to age. They also appear quite strong. Ben really threw Sawyer around like a rag doll last night.
3) Remember, the hatch had the words "Quarantine" written on the inside of the hatch. There is likely something that keeps the Others on the island(s) with only air drops of food/supplies. But if that were the case, why do they need a sub?

Posted by: Sully | October 26, 2006 1:05 PM | Report abuse

First, the pacemaker was less a reference to Pulp Fiction than it was a reference to Abrams other show Alias, where a diplomat named Patel was fixed with a pacemaker that was also a bomb.

Second, we know there's geologically unique electromagnetism on the island. And it's powerful. If you had a strong enough electromagnetic field, you could bend light, and if you can bend light, you can make an object seem invisible.

To Kiki: Rousseau mapped the island earlier, and Sayid has that map. That was early in the first season.

To Tirade: Obviously the island isn't healing everyone; Boone didn't turn out okay, Sawyer got shot and instead of healing he went septic, and Shannon's asthma didn't get any better.

To those who are upset that it's not about surviving on a desert island anymore: Maybe you want to rent Castaway... This is not television in the traditional sense, nor is it a narrative in a traditional television sense, and this was made clear by the producers at the outset when they stated in interview after interview that this would be the first TV drama modeled after a the narrative of long-term puzzle/mystery video games (like Myst). The structure of the show and the outside material (like the Lost Experience over the summer of 2006) take the narrative way past what's usually done on TV and broaden the story way past the confines of the electronic box; there's the constant literary references, the hidden web pages, the hidden orientation films that were dug up in the Lost Experience, etc. If you're not getting it, or are getting bored, it may be because you were expecting something that you were never getting... In a way, you were conned, but it's not like the writers/producers were hiding how to experience the show.

Posted by: J | October 26, 2006 1:11 PM | Report abuse

CLEMENTINE...was mentioned in the episode when Claire was kidnapped and held in one of the stations. I think it was used to reference Claire by Tom Cruise's cousin (forgot his name)

Someone who's not at work please verify!

Posted by: Larry | October 26, 2006 1:11 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Bethesdan that Cassidy probably conned Sawyer about Clem. For a professional con artist, he's a repeatedly easy mark.

Posted by: Loser | October 26, 2006 1:14 PM | Report abuse

um, Of Mice and Men is usually in the high school curriculum.

Posted by: ignatius | October 26, 2006 1:15 PM | Report abuse

--you had a strong enough electromagnetic field, you could bend light, and if you can bend light, you can make an object seem invisible.--

Not true. Only gravity can bend light as well as some solids which bend light via refraction. Here's an explanation of why electromagnetic fields do not bend light:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=430345

I don't think the island is hidden in that way, invisible I mean. I thik its hidden through obscurity. But Desmond's dirlfriend was watching for the magnetic field when Desmond hit the failsafe and she now knows where this island is. Can't wait for her to show up with the marines!

Posted by: Sully | October 26, 2006 1:21 PM | Report abuse

this is just like "Alias" for me and since they're from the same creator I fear that Lost is headed down the same path...Alias really captured my attention w/ solid writing and character development but by season 4, I couldn't watch it anymore...it was too contrived w/ no viable end b/c they killed off and brought back the same characters over and over again and there were too many double, triple and possibly quadrouple crossings that it became tedious.

Posted by: about that time | October 26, 2006 1:23 PM | Report abuse

really, sometimes i wonder if people even WATCH the show before coming up with theories. there are other islands off of the main island. danielle mapped them. you can see this map in a past episode, with at least two small islands shown ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE of the main island from where the losties crashed. so please, stop with all this crazy "there is only one island" talk.

also, doesn't ANYONE remember the orientation film in the pearl where they told the observers to go back to the pala ferry and take the boat to the barracks?

Posted by: Sigh...people | October 26, 2006 1:29 PM | Report abuse

First, the Pulp Fiction reference wasn't to the pacemaker, it was to the scene right before that with two of the Others discussing how to administer the hypodermic (one of them even says something like "just like in the movie").

Second, the personalities shown so far of the two new "Lostie" characters (golf snob and screaming blonde) seem to show why they have been excluded from the "inner circle." If this keeps up, I'll be rooting for them to get Ana-Lucia'd.

Third, I'm somewhat surprised that there's been little or no mention yet of Mr. Friendly's comments that we overheard when Sawyer was waking up. He said that it had been 2 days since the sky turned purple (when the hatch imploded) and since then they've been blind (referring to radar or some other surveillance system?) and without communications.

Fourth, thanks to the previous poster who reminded us of the whole virus/vaccine thing. This could be one of the keys to why the Others are there.

Posted by: Doc | October 26, 2006 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Lost fans are starting to sound like Trekkies-- The shows/movies are never as good as the narratives running constantly in their obsessed little minds. And later seasons are never as good as they were in the "glory days" (as remembered through the golden haze of nostalgia.)

Let me guess-- By now their simply HAS to be fan-written "scripts" that "everyone" agrees are much better than anything produced by those television hacks since season 1?

Obsessed fans always start out as the lifeblood of a show, but usually end up being a cancer in the end.

Posted by: Roman Cabana | October 26, 2006 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Doc, you're right on target. There have been several references to recent problems with the Others' electronic equipment - the paddles are just the latest casualty. Given that the thing in the hatch sucked in every piece of metal in its vicinity and made the sky turn purple, it would not be unreasonable to guess that it might have fried some electronics on the next island before it was shut down.

The Others may or may not have two-way contact with the outside world (to me, this still has not been totally proven yet), but I think that it's highly unlikely that they can rejoin the real world. Or maybe once you leave, you can never get back, and they are the brave warriors who have stayed behind to fight the menace on the island. We know that the outside world was able to detect signs of the hatch device activation (we learned this at the end of season 2), but this doesn't mean that the Others have two-way communications or the ability to travel back and forth.

Also, I checked out the site anon mentioned:

http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/

If you look at the screen capture of the Others' village as the camera pans away (from the first episode of this season), you will see that this doesn't rule out the two-island theory. It doesn't prove it either, but you can see the village and mountains close up, and behind it there is another set of mountains and beaches which could be part of the same island or a different one. Since Ben told us that the Others own a sub, my money is on the two-island theory right now.

By the way, the purgatory theory has been raised over and over and over again, along with the "life flashing before your eyes as your plane plummets towards the water," and the "this is all in Hurley's mind" theory. I can guarantee that wherever they ultimately go with this show, the writers are not going to pull a "Dallas" on us...

Posted by: Steve | October 26, 2006 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Re: the two new characters

I understand the necessity for introducing new characters, and I am not complaining; I am capable of suspending my disbelief over Kilauea Volcano if it means I will enjoy the show. But I find it really hilarious how they have handled the introduction of the two new series regulars. That that must have been the most bittersweet promotion from extra to series regular in TV history.


Casting Director: Hey, we need some new regulars because we keep killing off actors to keep salaries down. We're going to promote you to a speaking part.

Guy who plays Paolo: Cool! A speaking part on a hit TV show! That films in Hawaii!! That's SO awesome! I'll clear my schedule! So, like, how many scenes do you need me for in the first couple months of filming?

CD: (flipping through a stack of scripts) Let me check . . . Now let me . . . . Let me see . . . . Ahh . . . . Two.

GWPP: . . . .

Chick who plays Nikki: How about me?

CD: Yeah. Just one.

CWPN: I don't think I'm going to call my Realtor just yet.

CD: That is probably the right decision.

Posted by: halleck23 | October 26, 2006 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"6. Got to be a cloaking device of some sort. Otherwise it would just be stupid."

I hope you intended that to be ironic.

Posted by: another | October 26, 2006 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I agree with the poster that compared Lost to X-Files - the plot on Lost is getting more interpretive and secretive. I loved the first 2 seasons of X-Files - didn't know what the hell was going on the last 2 seasons - and in between was blah - so I think this is where Lost is.

The plot has stalled - they need to throw us a friggin' bone here - 2 episodes left?? Give us some answers to the old and introduce to some new questions.

Posted by: cmac | October 26, 2006 2:42 PM | Report abuse

it's a shame when a successful tv program becomes squeezed by its own media conglom (ABC/Disney/ESPN)...i'm sure the writers are told to script the eps to maximize ad revs, and this mini season is further proof that what the network wants is to prolong this as long as possible to maximize $. And yes, creative and production costs $, so that's fine, but it seems like there is significantly less content compared to commercial time this season (check your DVR/TiVo) and that can be frustrating given the scattered plot lines.

Posted by: $$$ | October 26, 2006 3:00 PM | Report abuse

If baby Clementine was a con, then Sawyer covered his cute behind. The account was in the kid's name, not the mother's.

Posted by: another liz | October 26, 2006 3:05 PM | Report abuse

In the first season, the others kidnapped Claire and took her to a hospital room. Was that the same room that Jack and Julliet were in?

Posted by: tc | October 26, 2006 3:28 PM | Report abuse

This show is a waste of time...two more seasons max.

Posted by: George | October 26, 2006 3:36 PM | Report abuse

"Lost fans are starting to sound like Trekkies-- The shows/movies are never as good as the narratives running constantly in their obsessed little minds."

OK, let me get this straight. You are advocating that people sit and watch TV and refrain from thinking whenever possible? You sound like an anti-TV snob, so I'd think you'd see it as encouraging that a show would stimulate thought and creativity instead of snuffing it out.

Posted by: extrapolater | October 26, 2006 3:45 PM | Report abuse

all i have to say is mich is hot for an fob burmese chick... maybe she can get lost on an island too

Posted by: ngocepoo | October 26, 2006 4:38 PM | Report abuse

This whole new season is ridiculous. Go on with the original characters and the original story. PLEASE!!!!!!!

Posted by: Rita Hooker | October 26, 2006 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Juliet and Jack are going to get together, and she is going to get pregnant by him. Kate and Sawyer are going to pair up.

Desmond doesn't "predict" the future, he is living deja vu; he has lived through all of this before. That's how he knows when some things are going to happen. On last night's show, he just figured out that he has the power to change coming events with his actions, which he didn't expect.

It's quite possible that all the characters in "Lost" are dead; that everyone on the plane died in the crash, and all of this is taking place in the afterlife, which is why these freaky scripts keep raising new questions.

It's likely that the writers are just making all of this up as they go along, with no master plan for the end result, and the series is going to start sucking soon if they don't start tying up some of these loose ends. I certainly hope that what happened to "Alias" doesn't happen to "Lost". "Alias" started out as a terrific show, but by season five, it was total crap.

However the plot twists, one thing is certain; the writers of "Lost" ALL smoke a lot of pot.

Posted by: Voodoo | October 26, 2006 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Voodoo hit it. I have lost all faith that there is some grand narrative plan here. The episodes moderate between entertaining and maddening. I'll still watch it, but I also watched Alias until the bitter end, so it's more about not throwing away the time I've already invested.

There is no consistency on the part of the writers. Too many threads begun and abandoned. Seriously people, that stupid smoke monster was a huge deal for half a season, and since then -- nothing.

It is so much less fun to guess what the writers are going to pull out of their ass next than it is to decipher a well organized labyrinthine plot and make logical predictions and assumptions.

But, I'm also a sucker, so I'm in it for the long haul.

Posted by: prk | October 26, 2006 5:52 PM | Report abuse

My favorite part of the episode was when Kate took her shirt off. OK, I'm a total pig, I admit it. But some of you ladies are hot for Sawyer (I've never understood "bad boy" appeal, nor the grunge/five o'clock shadow look, but to each his own), so I don't see any reason I can't...er...admire Kate.

More seriously, I agree that the writers are smoking more dope than before. The holes in the plot are getting biugger and bigger, and they just don't care. During the part where Kate climbed through the top of her cage, Ben was watching the whole thing and listening in (that's also how he knew to turn off the elctrical power, and had the stinger ready to zap Sawyer). But given that, why would he let Kate get out of her cage and risk her running off into the jungle? He couldn't have known ahead of time she could get out. And if Kate CAN get out, why can't Sawyer? Same basic cages, aren't they? And this now requires that one of the others monitor the scene 24 hours a day, because there's no guarantee Kate won't climb out in the middle of the night, or whatever.

In short, too much Maui Wowie.

I, too, definitely heard, "The sub is back," which makes no sense (See Maui Wowie, Too Much, above).

Why would Ben allow the dead girl's boyfriend to beat up Sawyer like that? There was a very real risk the guy could have killed Sawyer, which would presumably ruin whatever experiment is going on. And why did he stop beating him up, and why did he keep asking Kate if she loved him. Either he was out of control and in a rage, or he watches his girlfriend die (which Kate and Sawyer are unaware of, no?) and remains calm enough to "pretend" to beat up Sawyer but as part of a test to see where Kate's affections lie. Can't have it both ways--and neither one makes much sense.

Jen and Liz: any interest in starting a parallel analysis and chat over "The Nine"??? So far, I like it better than this season's "Lost." Anybody got any good ideas about exactly what DID happen in the bank? Anybody want to do a comparison between Lost's Jack and 9's Tim Daly character (and/or Scott Wolfe's character? or Wolfe versus Sawyer...) 9's Egan Foote and Lost's John Locke? Hurley and Chi McBride?

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 26, 2006 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Why no mention of Jack playing the EXACT same mind game on Juliet that Ben played (as Henry Gale) on Locke? I thought it was brilliant - the same slouch in jail... the same rope-a-dope with acting defeated and subserviant and then the mindgame of playing the interregators against each other.
I thought it was one of the pivotal moments of Jack's incarceration story arc.

Posted by: Ed | October 26, 2006 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Voodoo and prk nailed it.

The smoke monster...

Jack seeing his dad...

The children's voices...

The missing tailie stewardess...

The giant talking bird...

The wandering kids...

The three toed statue...

The glass eye...

Walt's supernatural power...

Magnetism in the hatch...

The Black Rock in the middle of the island...

The infection...

Kate seeing the horse...

Sawyer mumbling as Kate's dad...


On and on with NO ANSWERS. Let's face it; they're toying with us, stringing us along to online commericial tie-ins and crappy novels.

Posted by: Larry | October 26, 2006 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Didn't read "Mice and Men" either, but saw the movie. A rabbit plays a prominent role in the book/movie as well. One of the two main characters (played by John Malkovich in the flick) kills his pet rabbit and it foreshadows his own death to come.

The man on the monitor in next week's ep looks to me like Penelope's father, eh? Just with an eye patch, no?

I thought the previews for this episode were a big tease--Sawyer and the needle, the "do you love him" scene. It just didn't deliver. It feels like they're pulling punches. They got a lot of milage to cover in the two remained eps.

Posted by: Kevin | October 26, 2006 8:06 PM | Report abuse

btw, they can explain everything except the black smoke. that is the only thing that makes me think that writers have no clue. how in the world do you replicate that black smoke? it was idiotic. the story didn't need it! it was stupid. and now it seems writers have swept it under the rug hoping the viewers will forget about it.

and yes, my epiphony two weeks ago was correct that the others haven't killed anyone. only the losties have killed each other and the others.

btw, where're the kids we saw in season 1 that were supposedly with the others?

and forget the writing(and acting of the main trio) of this show. ben is a delight to watch. so far. almost as good as al swearengen(season1).

yes, i hate the flashbacks. please stop with them.

and i hope walt and his dad never return on the show or the island.


Posted by: dealer | October 26, 2006 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Larry wrote:
--On and on with NO ANSWERS. Let's face it; they're toying with us, stringing us along to online commericial tie-ins and crappy novels.--

I fugured that out when "The Nine" was aired for the first time (its made by the people who brought you Lost!). They give you nine people held hostage during a bank robbery for 52 hours. They show you them before and then after the experience. They change in many ways from the experience. To figure out what happened, you need to sit through commercials to watch minute snippets of what happened during those 52 hours. Its a neat concept but you're right, we're not being entertained, we're being strung along to increase ratings. Its evil and I've been so sucked into their evil trap on Lost. Damn it all. To save what's left of my evenings I refuse to watch the Nine. No getting sucked into that commercial pit for me, no sir. Otherwise, when would I have time to blog? Hmmm, there are a lot of advertisements on this page ... oh no, another pit I've been sucked into! Time to move to a deserted island ... oh its hopeless....

Posted by: Sully | October 26, 2006 10:05 PM | Report abuse

re: "OK, let me get this straight. You are advocating that people sit and watch TV and refrain from thinking whenever possible?"

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion, "extrapolater." I was merely commenting (okay-- ranting) about an element of the Trek fan base that judged what the shows' writers created against the storylines that run through their own heads. It works like this: "This is a bad season, because they wrote it a different way than I have."

I'm seeing this pattern echoed among certain members of the Lost fan base. I'm sure that you would agree that such people are not the only ones "thinking" while watching a show.


re: "You sound like an anti-TV snob..."

??? Doesn't what I wrote indicate that, at the very least, I watch and enjoy both Lost and the various Trek series? How, then, could I be "anti-TV." Now as for being a "snob," well, you've got me there. I'm working on it though. Babysteps.

Look, Trek's fan base made that particular franchise-- but they also destroyed it. Why? Because later shows could never "measure up." What they saw on the screen couldn't live up to their nostalgic view of shows from the past, and the bigger-than-life version that ran through so many fans' heads. It happens to a lot of other good series, too.

I would really hate to see this happen to this show too. But, "extrapolater," take a second look through some of these posts. Tell me that you don't see it happening here, too.

Posted by: Roman Cabana | October 27, 2006 1:43 AM | Report abuse

Dealer, you may be correct that the Others haven't killed anyone, only Losties have (I'm not sure of this, not being a scorekeeper). But they've shot people, firebombed the raft with the intention of leaving the survivors die/drown, they've sadistically beaten and tortured people (never mind the mind games), and by kidnapping Michael's son and holding him hostage they set up a situation in which Michael believe his only choice was to murder Ana Marie and the other woman in order to lead the trio and Hurley into the kidnap trap. And what ever happened to all those other crash survivors (from both groups) they kidnapped in seasons 1 and 2?

No. While you may be technically correct, I don't see any great moral distinction between the two groups. If anything the Losties, for whatever their past histories, have done mostly nothing but try to help each other and survive. In the handful of instances where they haven't, it's been due to manipulation of events by the Others.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | October 27, 2006 5:22 AM | Report abuse

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Posted by: che | October 27, 2006 6:33 AM | Report abuse

Curmudgeon,
I'm leaning toward Dealer in this analysis. The Others have consistently said they are the "good guys". Ben said "we're not killers" or something to that effect when Sawyer asked why they just don't kill him and Kate and get it over with. There was that little incident with Gibson last season when he killed the guy Anna had accused of being an Other and was being held in the pit. Gibson snapped his neck swiftly and easily, so saying they are not killers is not totally true, but I think I have a hypothesis to explain it.

In my theory there is another group of Others that the Others we know are in a struggling with. Think about it, the Others were living what seemed to be boring lives, having book clubs and such, then the plane crashes and they begin acting like they are a military organization. Gibson can cleanly snap a neck. Ben can toss Sawyer around his cell like a gorilla. Why have such fighting skills and military discipline? I think they are, and have been, in some type of conflict. They see themselves as the good guys in this conflict. Their suspicion of the Losties and the Lostie's continued attacks on the Others leads me to believe there is another group that is fighting the Others and they are using the Losties in this fight.

With this in mind the bad things the Others have done can be explained as follows:

--But they've shot people--
They shot Sawyer but did not kill him. I'm sure based on their military abilities that they could have killed Sawyer. They shot him in the arm to stop him from jumping onto their boat to save Walt.

--firebombed the raft with the intention of leaving the survivors die/drown--
We don't know that. They have a sub after all. We do not know whether they were prepared to save Sawyer and Jin if they got into real trouble. And the shark had a Dharma logo on the tail. Maybe a "good guy" shark, there to protect Jin and Sawyer.

--they've sadistically beaten and tortured people (never mind the mind games)--
Yup, but not killed them. And torture may be too strong a word. However Said DID torture Ben and Ben did not give up his secret. Another example of the Other's military abilities.

--and by kidnapping Michael's son and holding him hostage they set up a situation in which Michael believe his only choice was to murder Ana Marie and the other woman in order to lead the trio and Hurley into the kidnap trap.--
Ah this leads me to wonder whether Anna and Libby were part of this other group. Gibson also tried to kill Anna but she got the better of him. I think the Others will kill if necessary, but not the innocent which some of the Losties are.

--And what ever happened to all those other crash survivors (from both groups) they kidnapped in seasons 1 and 2?--
Good question. I'm also wondering where the children are. The Others took them and Gibson said they are in a better place. If they are the good guys, they may have removed them to keep them from any harm as this struggle plays out.

Posted by: Sully | October 27, 2006 7:13 AM | Report abuse

Chasmosaur wrote:
--Did anyone note a possibly play on words by Ben in the "Previously on Lost" part? When Jack asked what was expected of him, Ben told him "patience"....perhaps it was also meant to be "patients"? Just a thought ;)--

Ohhhhhh good catch! I saw it again with your comment in mind and it sure seemed like Ben was saying "patients". What seems strange though is why the Others do not have a doctor. Last season when they took Aaron and Claire it seemed there were a lot of doctors in the other hatch working on Aaron. Maybe they are not surgeons, but you'd think they would have a surgeon. They seem to have everything else. Now maybe they did but that person was killed. Anyone have a list of Others that had been killed before Michael was sent back to bring Jack/Sawyer/Kate? Gibson is one. Any others that might have had a medical background? What about the guy who befriended Claire when they were kidnapped. He seemed to be a doctor. Was he killed? The next question would of course be why they need Jack's skills. The X-ray in the hallway was a clue that even Jack picked up on. Maybe they know the upcoming struggle will be bloody and so they kidnapped Jack so they could use his skills.

Posted by: Sully | October 27, 2006 7:27 AM | Report abuse

For all of you complaining about the writers abandoning storylines and making things up as they go along, I think you have to be more patient. They don't reveal things immediately, but I beleive they DO plan on eventually tying everything together (even the black smoke).

I've been watching Season 1 with my fiancee who never saw it, and there is a lot of information that seemed inconsequential then, but not now. For instance, I just watched the episide when Sayid is trying to interpret Rousseau's maps, and Locke gives him his compass. Sayid then says to Jack that the compass is broken. The end. But, obviously the compass was not broken--it was just being affected by the island's magnetic field. In the Season 1 episode it was a really minor thing that most people wouldn't give a second thought to, but obviously the writers knew where things were going as far as the island's magnetic properties are concerned.

And I'm not a aeronautical engineer, but I beleive that if an electromagnetic pulse disabled every electronic system on an airplane at the same time, the plane could quite possibly break apart. It's fly-by-wire after all, and if the stress from disabled control surfaces as well as a sudden drop from 100% thrust to 0% were combined it just might be enough.

Of course, it's friggin TV and there's black smoke attacking people, so I don't know why anyone wants to start applying logic.

Posted by: jw | October 27, 2006 7:52 AM | Report abuse

DEALER-

You keep saying the others haven't killed anyone, and I keep pointing out that Goodwin did snap the neck of the tailie Ana Lucia had thrown in the pit. We know from this season's opening episode that Goodwin was sent to the tailies by Ben. So we have seen them kill on screen!

Posted by: Eric | October 27, 2006 8:32 AM | Report abuse

Right, Goodwin, not Gibson as I said in my previous post. Yea, he killed the guy in the pit, very professionally too. You are correct, somewhere in future episodes they will need to resolve this conflict of the Others not killing people (as they say they are the good guys and they do not kill people) while Goodwin did kill the Lostie in the pit. My grand theory of an OtherOther group that is playing the Losties as pawns to attack the Others so the OtherOthers can regain the island would have the guy in the pit being an OtherOther, as was Anna, with the two of them playing roles to instill fear in the Losties and prepare them to fear the Others and be willing to attack them. Goodwin kills the guy in the pit and reports he escaped. Anna is suspiscious since the guy in the pit would not escape because he was playing the role with Anna. Eventually Anna suspects Goodwin of being an Other and she kills him. So, the Others may not be "killers" but they do know how to defend themselves and root out their enemies. Other suspects for being OtherOthers:
Desmond
Locke
Kate
Rose
Russeau

And now that Desmond has shown his ability to see into the future, which I am alone in seeing this as Desmond's knowlege of preplanned events created by the OtherOthers (yes, even the lightening),and this is not part of the plan, we should see someone try to kill or disable Desmond to stop him from exposing the plan and stopping the preplanned events from happening.

This is fun. Like in scientific theories you can make predictions from the theory. Based on my theory I predict Desmond will be attacked or disabled somehow to prevent him from "seeing into the future". His little demonstration with the bolt of lightning should be of great concern to any OtherOther in the Lostie camp. It likely was supposed to hit and maybe kill Claire and/or Aaron. Desmond's abilities may screw up the OtherOther's plans. I'll be watching to see who among the Losties now pays a lot of attention to Desmond and tries to stop him. My guess: Locke or that new guy, maybe even Eko.

Posted by: Sully | October 27, 2006 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Sully- That's a very interesting theory. If you think that Ana Lucia and perhaps various other characters are OtherOthers, how do you explain how they were on the plane? Right now it appears that the plane crashed because Desmond didn't push the button one time, so I have a hard time figuring out how various characters were maneuvered to be on this particular plane and then manipulate the losties. The scientific method also maintains that the simplest explanation for an observed phenomenon is the most likely, and I'm having a hard time seeing the simplicity in your proposed explanation. But who knows?!?!?

Posted by: Eric | October 27, 2006 9:50 AM | Report abuse

of course there's other islands, it's filmed on hawaii.

Posted by: big island | October 27, 2006 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Eric wrote:
--If you think that Ana Lucia and perhaps various other characters are OtherOthers, how do you explain how they were on the plane? Right now it appears that the plane crashed because Desmond didn't push the button one time...--

The fact that anyone on the plane survived is remarkable, but for almost all to survive with little more than scratches is really unbelievable. I'm not convinced the plane crashed in the normal sense but was rather brought down in a controlled fashion, in pieces. How else could so many survive? If the writers wanted something actually possible, they could have had the magnetic pulse disable the plane which could come in for a controlled crash that most could have survived. But they didn't do that. I think we're meant to question how anyone survived and look for that answer as well. And if it was controlled, the OtherOthers had little to worry about on the plane.

As for Desmond, well, he's on my list of OtherOthers, or more likely, is being manipulated by them to do the things he does. He didn't push the button because he was out fighting with Kelvin. Either Desmond or Kelvin could have planned that situation to cause the button to be pushed late as the plane went overhead, causing it to crash, or brought down in a survivable way. Locke is on my list too. Both seem to have mental issues, a sign of hypnotism, or some type of mind control.
And if all that is hard to believe, its a minor leap if you accept the black smoke monster as being real. One thing I've noticed about this show, we see through the the Losties eyes, not what is actually happening. Charlie saw a baby floating in the ocean. We saw it too but it wasn't there. So I'm not so sure the black smoke and other things are actually real, just what the Losties are seeing or being forced to see.

Posted by: Sully | October 27, 2006 1:47 PM | Report abuse

My new pet theory: the shark IS the sub.

Posted by: Nate | October 27, 2006 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Anyone notice how well Desmond looks now? He's not the drinking slob he was in previous episodes but clean and even wearing nice clothes. Here's my crazy theory:
Desmond was brainwashed, probably by Klevin, to do certain things at certain times and is aware of future events because all events on the island were preplanned and he takes his cues from these events. It was driving him mad but he now has a handle on it. He can see the events that were placed in his head and consciously react to them in advance. He's now in control and a happy Desmond. Expect Desmond to come under some sort of attack since his new found control of his mind is a threat to those controlling events on the island ... and it ain't the Others.

Posted by: Sully | October 27, 2006 1:56 PM | Report abuse

please, i beg you, i still really like this show - let's try and steer away from comments like "Lost fans are starting to sound like Trekkies." i swear i'm not that dorky! i just love getting confused by the show and then perusing the forums...

ps: i've never "rewritten" or "prewritten" an episode or read any reasonable fascimiles thereof.

Posted by: amy | October 27, 2006 2:12 PM | Report abuse

*sigh* I am perfectly willing to suspend disbelief for a lot of things about this show, and it's almost a tradition for convoluted storylines to drop or ignore blind alley plot points (see every soap opera, long running comic book or book series), but I'm almost past the point of "patients" in not having questions answered in a more timely manner. OK, I can see some plot points being stretched out over a long period of time. Makes things more thought provoking. But must every little thing have meaning in this story...and take FOREVER to be explained. Foreshadowing is one thing...making me pick apart each and every utterance and action to understand what's going on borders on the fanaticism of religious fundamentalists. "What Sawyer REALLY meant was......." "What the 4 foot penguins dancing on the sub deck REALLY signify is....." Just get on with it people! Making literary allusions and basing plot lines on existential philosophy is pretty cool in today's McStory writing, but jeez! Nothing wrong with a clean, linear story. It can still be deep without being obtuse. Throw us a bone here and clean-up some of the mess this show has become.

Posted by: Charles in Tampa | October 27, 2006 2:38 PM | Report abuse

If the hatch had imploded, wouldn't Locke, Eko, and Desmond be...dead? I don't see how they wouldn't.

Posted by: anon | October 27, 2006 3:16 PM | Report abuse

If the hatch had imploded, wouldn't Locke, Eko, and Desmond be...dead? I don't see how they wouldn't.
Posted by: anon | October 27, 2006 03:16 PM

The polar bears saved them. i thought that was obvious :^)

Posted by: Sully | October 27, 2006 9:14 PM | Report abuse

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