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Posted at 10:44 AM ET, 11/ 2/2006

'Lost' Episode 5 Dueling Analyses

By Liz Kelly movies editor Jen Chaney and I messaged last night into the wee hours of the morning about the penultimate episode of the "Lost" fall season.

***SPOILER ALERT*** If you haven't yet watched Wednesday's episode, please watch online before reading what follows.

Mr. Eko (Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje). (Photo courtesy ABC)

Jen: This is apropos of nothing, but I feel compelled to mention this before we start discussing tonight's episode. Remember how a couple of weeks ago I mentioned something about Scientology? Since then, I've thought about more connections between "Lost" and L. Ron Hubbard, or at least Tom Cruise.

1. Crazy Claire-kidnapper Ethan? Played by Tom Cruise's cousin.
2. J.J. Abrams, "Lost" co-creator? Directed "Mission: Impossible III."
3. Most interestingly of all: At the end of the closing credits for "M:i:III," there is a thank you to... the Hanso Foundation. I realize this is probably just a funny Abrams inside joke, but it's still intriguing.

Liz: Okay, I need to digest that. But I'm so conflicted right now. We finally got an idea of what the black smoke is -- or, rather, what it can do -- and proof that there is indeed something other than The Others in control on the island, but the price was steep: Mr. Eko. Let's observe a moment of silence for one of my favorite characters. Sacrifice is not my strong suit.

Jen: From the beginning of tonight's episode, I knew Eko was a goner. As soon as his brother said, "It is time to confess, to be judged," I knew he was being called to the Great Beyond. Very sad, though, and poignant that the last vision of him was as a young boy with his brother. Interesting, too, that Locke said he saw a white light. Does this mean the black smoke signifies that Eko went straight to hell?

Liz: Good question. Eko's story has always been a religious touchstone in an increasingly spiritual show, what with the priestly storyline and the idea of a man vs. environment spiritual struggle embodied in his character. But tonight is the first time that I got to wondering: Is this vital force on the island (the black smoke, the white light, the magnetic field and everything else otherworldly) meant to be some kind of deity or it is some sort of impish supernatural force that is only playing at being God? Certainly, the last scene when Eko confesses to his brother only to have Yemi respond, "You speak to me as if I were your brother" planted this seed of doubt in my mind, but it does retrofit into some of the past oddities pretty well -- a fickle, bored, spoiled supernatural being who is using the Losties as his personal playthings; or as a part of his own larger-than-Dharma experiment.

Jen: In keeping with that theory, I was thinking that the brother was just a manifestation of the black smoke. He wasn't really there. Eko had been hallucinating throughout the episode, so maybe all of those images were just the black smoke -- or whatever the smoke represents -- manifesting in different forms. Given that Eko set fire to the plane, it's interesting that his brother returned and set fire to his little hut. The brother, like the smoke, seemed to be seeking retribution.

Also, when Locke said Eko had told him, "We're next," do we think Locke was telling the truth? It seemed like Eko said more than that. Although that line ties in with what Locke told everyone earlier in the episode: "We're all going to the same place." (Dah-NAH!!)

Between the smoke, Eko's last words and some of the crazy stuff with Jack, I think a lot of TiVos were rewinding tonight.

Much more after the jump...

Liz: Yeah, and the last few minutes almost made me entirely forget the other big bang moment from tonight -- the denizen of yet another hatch glimpsed on one of the Pearl's video monitors. Does the eye patch mean he's a 300-year-old pirate from that galleon they found in the jungle in season one?

Oh, and back to weird coincidences briefly: Entertainment Weekly's excellent "Lost" expert Doc Jensen has noticed some as well. His Wednesday article on draws some interesting parallels between the rabbit from last week's episode and Stephen King's "On Writing" and speculates about how "Lost" and NBC's "Heroes" may have more in common than meets the eye.

Jen: I read Jensen's take on the "Heroes" connection, but will have to check back about the "On Writing" thing. That's interesting.

Re: the dude with the patch. Was I the only one watching who shouted "Malkovich!" as soon as he appeared? Totally a dead ringer for Valmont from "Dangerous Liaisons," and, I might add, something of a Locke doppelganger.

Speaking of, was it me, or did Locke look positively gleeful when he saw that guy? I'm wondering if he's hoping to scare the rest of his little crew so he can convince them to venture to Others-land for some reason.

Liz: So, switching gears -- Juliet basically asked Jack to kill Benry, or to let him die in surgery. Do you think she's on the level or is this yet another mind-[expletive]? I've gotta say, I'm torn. It's certainly believable considering the care taken to set up a power struggle between Juliet and Benry. But it makes me wonder... who's the liar? Is it the one who is a blatant jerk, or the one who sidles up to you and tries to make you an ally?

Also, I just remembered Benry's spiritual moment. He told Jack that his presence on the island was basically proof of God. That it was divine intervention that brought a spinal surgeon to the island just two days after he learned of his tumor. Which, when looked at in the context of the entire episode, is interesting because one of the most mystical of characters, Locke, also said "Don't mistake coincidence for fate" tonight. I don't really know where I'm going with this except to say that a.) this does make it seem that there was a method to who ended up on this island and b.) The Others were not those orchestrating the crash.

And did the funeral scene for what's-her-name from "Deadwood" strike you as totally random? White robes, a floating Viking burial at sea and Brenda Lee's "I Wonder" blaring from a tinny speaker.

Jen: The funeral was highly random. All the white outfits reminded me of that Hale-Bopp cult. I think Juliet was indeed asking Jack to kill Ben, but in a way that wouldn't look like murder. I don't trust her -- if you read the profile of Elizabeth Mitchell in "EW" (Time-Warner really should pay us for product placement), her character definitely sounds duplicitous. (The same article also strongly suggests that someone major gets shot during an episode to air in February.) Problem is, like you, I don't trust Ben either.

Liz: Yep, also thanks to that EW profile, I realized why Juliet looks so familiar. She played Angelina Jolie's lover in the HBO movie, "Gia," back in 1998. (Yet another HBO connection to add to the other actors who have previously worked with the cable network -- Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje, Paula Malcomson, Harold Perrineau, Clancy Brown.)

So, one episode left. Any predictions?

Jen: Before we predict, I just had one other thought. Eko, by my count, is the fifth person to die on the show. The first was Capt. Hotness, aka Boone. Both of them died shortly after making contact with that downed airplane. Before both of them died, they also had hallucinations about their siblings -- or at least in Boone's case, the stepsister with whom he shared a vaguely incestuous relationship. And both seemed to make some kind of internal peace with those siblings before they died.
I'm not sure what this all means, but it signals, perhaps, that we're coming to some kind of full circle plot-wise. Also, I really thought Eko buried his brother's body before. I was surprised when he was surprised not to find him in the airplane. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Liz: I specifically remember Eko setting the plane on fire and assumed Yemi had been, umm, cremated. So what you're saying, I think, is that it is a good thing to be an only child because then there will be no sibling/harbinger of death to collect you for the grim reaper?

Jen: Re: next week's episode: I can't believe the arc is almost over! I really can't wait until next year to resolve all of these issues -- or at least resolve them in a "Lost"-ish way, i.e. raising still more questions and answering only a few. I think we won't know what Jack's going to do about Ben's surgery -- that will be a cliffhanger. I think Locke and the gang will set out to find Jack, Kate and Sawyer, but maybe not reach them just yet. And most shocking of all, I predict the return of Vincent the dog. I don't know why. I just miss the old pooch.

Liz: I don't have any predictions to add except to expect a big cliffhanger courtesy of the hiatus, but I'm too busy trying to figure out the significance of tonight's "To Kill a Mockingbird" reference. Perhaps the smoke is an as-yet-unseen Boo Radley hiding out on the island? Or is it that the central story in "Mockingbird" is about someone who has been falsely accused -- and this is what Juliet unwittingly chooses as a cover story for her hidden message to Jack. Is it a false message? As discussed earlier, is she not to be trusted?

Maybe next week we should talk some more about parallels with "The Wizard of Oz." I've got some ideas there, but I think if we go into it now I will spontaneously combust.

Jen: Or maybe Benry Gale is really ... a mockingbird! Holy &$!%!

I look forward to delving into the "Oz" theory at a later point. (By the way, if you watch tonight's episode synched up to "Dark Side of the Moon," you will actually see the God Ben was talking about.)

One final note to leave you with: After last week's lovely fruit salad and this week's more detailed view of Hurley's cooking area, I have decided to open a new establishment. I will call it Hurley's Dude-tastic Tiki Hut and "Lost" Love Shack, where the papaya tastes sweet and the ranch dressing flows as freely as the booze. Perhaps you'll join me there next week for our last (sniff, sniff) dueling analysis?

Liz: Ranch salad dressing -- the thirst quencher. I'm so there.

Next week's episode: "I Do." Jack makes a decision about Ben's offer, and Kate fears that Pickett may make good on his threat to kill Sawyer.

By Liz Kelly  | November 2, 2006; 10:44 AM ET
Categories:  Lost, TV  
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I don't think Locke was telling the truth when he said he saw a white light. He may have been saying that just to see if Eko would claim he saw that too, or would contradict him with the story of the black smoke. It was the smoke that dragged Locke to the hole in the ground in Season One - how would he see that as a white light?

Posted by: Beth | November 2, 2006 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Thanks to Eko, we can finally put to rest all those silly purgatory theories. As any reader of Dante knows, purgatory is the place for souls who repented their sins before dying but still must serve their penance and become cleansed (the "purge" of "purgatory") so that they may enter the heavenly spheres. Eko declared himself unrepentant just before Smokey killed him and he left the world of the island. Ergo, the island is not purgatory. EVERYONE MOVE ON PLEASE!

Posted by: Cato of Utica | November 2, 2006 11:38 AM | Report abuse

I can barely post. I'm in mourning for Mr. Eko. Can't wait to see where Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje turns up next - in spite of my Sawyer fixation I fully admit he's the finest actor on the island.

The smoke! Whoa, dudes, it was evil after all! My poor husband (who is Lostally challenged, but looks like Sawyer aged 300 years) heard me yelling "The smoke is back!" at the TV and zoomed up from the basement with a fire extinguisher. My hero.

Posted by: KiKi | November 2, 2006 11:49 AM | Report abuse

>>My poor husband (who is Lostally challenged, but looks like Sawyer aged 300 years)<<

This wins the award for back-handed compliment of the day.

Posted by: Liz | November 2, 2006 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Okay, let me get this straight: Michael and Walt have left the island. Eko is dead. And Rose is no where to been seen. Seems to me this island has a thing against black folks. Mayhaps that explains the reference to "To Kill a Mockingbird."

Message to Hollywood: Stop throwing bones to Persons of Color. We're tiring of the bait and switch.

Posted by: Malcolm | November 2, 2006 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone else find it odd that they spent an entire episode's backstory on a character who will no longer be part of the show? That is, no later island mysteries can be solved with information from this backstory because Eko (and his personal mysteries) are gone. An odd choice for the writers, I thought.

BTW, Juliet was also Mrs. Clause in Santa Clause II with Tim Allen.

Posted by: Kelli | November 2, 2006 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Can you tell I'm an English professor? I mean Mrs. CLAUS!

Also: excellent observation from Malcolm.

Posted by: Kelli | November 2, 2006 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Eko was the show's most intriguing character and he's dead. WHy were there tailies if they were just going to die? WTF? I'm giving the show the rest of the true season. I better be wowwed or I'm done. JJ Abrams is screwing this up just like he totally screwed up Alias.

Posted by: Mad | November 2, 2006 12:13 PM | Report abuse

But...why ask Jack to kill this man? I mean, they've had years to poison him or knock him in the head with a shovel. What power does he hold over them that they would ask Jack to cast his soul to hell on their behalf?

Posted by: Shimmying Tanya B. | November 2, 2006 12:13 PM | Report abuse


Eko's death: Not a whole lot of tail-enders left, eh? Not a whole lot of African-Americans left either, assuming Michael and Walt are really gone.

Red Shirts?: Personally, I hate the introduction of the two new front-enders (Pablo and his lady friend), who have apparently been on the island the whole time but just haven't been hanging out with out better known buddies. I have high hopes that we are getting to know them only so we'll feel something when they are killed.

Black smoke: Could it be a coincidence that the black smoke, which used to be considered part of the island's defense mechanism, went after Eko moments after eye-patch guy realized the Losties had identified his existence? Could eye-ptach guy have "released the hounds," as it were? Or, could the destruction of the first hatch and the release of that energy field have set the black smoke free and/or wild?

Good episode last night. Nice to see Locke acting like Locke again. Sad to lose Eko, though.

Posted by: Matt B. | November 2, 2006 12:13 PM | Report abuse

We were loyal viewers of Lost until last night when Mr. Echo was killed off. We will no longer be watching the show as it has just become one death scene after another--who needs that as a form of entertainment?
Mr. Echo was more interesting than the silly love triangles or watching the Sawyer character be the bad guy but good guy again and again.
The show has simply become repetitive which may be another reason we will stop watching it.

Posted by: Lisa | November 2, 2006 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Um, Malcolm, please spare us your color-based conspiracies. This had nothing to do with race and everything to do with the fact Eko had requested the writers write him out of the story.

Akinnuoye-Agbaje asked to be written off the series. After losing both parents last year, he wanted to return to his London home and work on a film he'll direct.


Posted by: Fred | November 2, 2006 12:15 PM | Report abuse

I think Juliet is evil and Benry is going to turn out to be the good guy. It's too suspicious. This surgery is the ONLY way they could think of to get rid of Benry? Either the Others don't have the majority of people behind them - suspect in itself - or Juliet is going freelance and wants control of the "tribe".

Posted by: KG | November 2, 2006 12:15 PM | Report abuse

GO Malcom! Hadn't noticed, but you're right! Also, aside from Locke, the people who aren't white are the most interesting:

Eko, Michael, Sayid, Rose (and by default Bernard. They just seem like a couple you'd want to be friends with, JIn & Sun.

And whats with the Lamo two new characters? Did they borrow a MArried with Children writer last night? Whats the big deal fo a tiolet ebing flushed? Writing is goin to hell in a handbasket.

Posted by: Mad | November 2, 2006 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone else think it was funny when the group was walking up to the plane and the new couple (not sure of their names) starting talking about it, and he (Pablo?) asked 'What's up with Mr. Eko?', and the girl said 'His brother died in that plane.' And then they just keep walking as if it is no big deal. wouldn't that guy be like, 'WHAT???? His brother died in a seperate plane crash on this same exact island? What the hell is going on here?' I love it when the characters just accept the most ridiculous things happening as if it is no big deal...

Posted by: missing mr. eko | November 2, 2006 12:17 PM | Report abuse

What if Walt and Michael are just on the second island now? Maybe that heading they were given just took them straight to the second island and they're being held there. Maybe they're hanging out with that black woman who seemed to be running the show at the Others' decoy villiage on the main island.

Posted by: jw | November 2, 2006 12:19 PM | Report abuse

The smoke is part of the aftermath of the failed Hanso experiments. My guess is that the big island is rawling with them (like Cap'n Cyclops on the camera). As they were doing all sorts of wacky metaphysical experiments, it wouldn't be too big of a leap to assume that one of their "failed" experiments became something they weren't intending like a soul freed from the physical constraints of a body but with major telekinetic abilities.....and is still a little pissed about the whole "not having a cororeal form" thing. Just my .02.

Posted by: Mr. Candle | November 2, 2006 12:21 PM | Report abuse

KIKI - That was hilarious.

We were told that Michael and Walt left the island, but we don't know if that is true.

Eko's demise actually puzzled me. I was under the impression that he was repenting for his sins, we saw him building a church, carrying the walking stick with scripture and not speaking for 30 days. He remembered his bad deeds and felt regret for the position he put his brother in - now in this episode he is defiant and refuses to give in to his ghost/brother's request for repent. Maybe he knew it was not his ghost/brother? His character changed from the last time we saw him.

Agreed - Don't think Locke heard "You are next." And Geez - please get Sawyer and what's her name out of those damned cages!

Posted by: cmac | November 2, 2006 12:22 PM | Report abuse

My question is 'where did Juliet get all that posterboard?'

Posted by: Tee | November 2, 2006 12:29 PM | Report abuse

I'm surprised you didn't comment about Locke and Eko rolling the stone away, and Yemi being gone (Christ like figure). Raised from the dead. I thought I was watching the Passion of Christ. Also didn't Yemi die with two criminals, another JC reference?

Posted by: Cliff Merrell | November 2, 2006 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, where is Miss Clue? Another dissappearing black character. I'm sorry Fred, but I do think the AAs have taken a big hit - it's the first thing I thought last night, and I'm white as all.
The two New People are as bland as dishwater, and seem to be mostly there for clarification - they kind of represent the latecomer viewers - they'll just ask questions so the old characters can explain and catch everyone up.

Posted by: nam | November 2, 2006 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Michael and Walt will be back....I want to find out what kind of "Shining" type powers Walt has!
The racism factor is dumb people. They are not killing off all the blacks on the island. In fact, Eko is the ONLY black person to be killed off. The other characters that died were white, (Boone, Shannon, and Libby), and Hispanic (Ana Lucia).
Also, Juliet is the real bad one. Remember what Sawyer said about her a few episodes ago? He said that she looked like someone who could kill in cold blood or something like that? Sawyer knows that she is ice cold. Watch out for that one.

Posted by: Burke | November 2, 2006 12:34 PM | Report abuse

This program was more interesting when "nothing was happening". Much too visual--black smoke?--and literal--the whole Jack/Juliet/Ben troika. The two new characters? Paid a fraction of the per episode rate as the "regulars" and act as financial filler. Writers, producers, network et al, are pandering and losing their finesse. But what can you expect when an abomination like Criminal Minds challenges it in the ratings?

Posted by: North of the 48th | November 2, 2006 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Walt will be So Much Older if they bring him back! It's only supposed to have been a couple of months; but I guess this will have to be part of his magical power.
I will miss Eko so much. He did the best he could with the life he was given.

Posted by: nam | November 2, 2006 12:40 PM | Report abuse

--I am in full mourning for the mysterious Mr. Eko. More than any other character, including Locke, Eko represented the inner conflict between good and evil. I loved both his current story and his backstory. There was so much that could have been done w/ this character and his storyline. I really don't know how they will replace him--and this is making me seriously contemplate giving up on the show.

--Most of the other characters--except for Locke and Hurley, IMO--could be dropped w/ little impact on the show. Let's hope neither actor gets in a run-in w/ the police in HI.

--Also, I'd like to second some of the other opinions about the two newbies. They way they've been brought into the storyline is so ham-handed. Too bad they weren't tailies--then we'd really know they're destined for an early demise.

--Juliet is NOT to be trusted. (Plus, I'd really hate for Jack to violate his physician's oath and do harm to Benry while he was Jack's patient. That would represent the total downfall of Jack.)

Posted by: sen | November 2, 2006 12:51 PM | Report abuse

When did Sayid (and Jinn and Sun, presumably) get back to the camp? Did I forget something from the previouse episode? Or are we supposed to assume that they just went back after the sailboat-jacking?

Posted by: ??? | November 2, 2006 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Cliff Merrell: Great observation on the JC references - how could we have missed that?

Posted by: cmac | November 2, 2006 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Whatever happened to Jin and Sun? Last I remember, they were swimming in the ocean after Jin shot the Other woman. Did Sayid just leave them and go back to the camp? Memory is failing me....

Posted by: kc | November 2, 2006 12:57 PM | Report abuse

oops, I meant after SUN shot the Other....

Posted by: kc | November 2, 2006 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Yeah when did Sayid return to the island and where are Jin and Sun??? Also good JC reference... makes sense. ...and the toilet flushing??? Lost writers... we want answers and character development, not comedic relief from a couple of characters we could give a *bleap* about.

Posted by: laurel | November 2, 2006 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Not Mr. Echo, maybe the two fresh faces but him. That one smarts and I need sometime to recoup.

The others crack me up, they can get files on everyone on a plane that has crashed on their island but nobody can kill Ben or Benry(as someone referred to him)on their own. I was thinking whoever is higher than Benry would get pissed and punish them but that still doesn't make sense because that room had to be monitored so whoever is in charge would know that the poster boarding was taking place. I think it's another con.

Wasn't the pilot the first person to be killed by the black smoke in season 1? What took him from that plane?

Posted by: petal | November 2, 2006 1:01 PM | Report abuse

No credit to Juliet for the Bob Dylan homage?

Posted by: Kim | November 2, 2006 1:02 PM | Report abuse

it is always the black characters that bite the dust in movies and TV shows throughout history. Sad but true

Posted by: racsism lives | November 2, 2006 1:06 PM | Report abuse

On the whole, thought last night's episode was BORING. As for deaths, plenty more just not as developed--the captain of the plane, the Marshall who had captured Kate, Ethan, the "other" who infiltrated the Tailies, the Tailie who he had killed, the woman Sun shot. That's at least 6 more who had a spoken line.

Posted by: joe | November 2, 2006 1:06 PM | Report abuse

If Rose and Locke were both healed by the Island, how then can Benry be dying from a spinal tumor? Another set up by Juliet?

Posted by: jh | November 2, 2006 1:08 PM | Report abuse

What's the deal with the black smoke and Locke. When Locke et al stumbled upon Eko in the forest, it was getting ready to stroke. But upon "seeing" Locke, it retreated.

Posted by: Arl | November 2, 2006 1:11 PM | Report abuse

To bad that the actor playing Eko asked to be written out-- Eko was indeed one of the most intruiging characters. Last night after the show I said to my husband, "Why couldn't they have killed off annoying Charlie instead of cool Mr. Eko?"

I firmly believe Michael and Walt will be back-- there is too much fertile ground to leave unexploited there. So they left the island-- as we now know, there is another one next door. Could be they're being held there now.

The two new characters are lame and their dialogue is lamer. Puh-leeze. Either write these people some decent lines or let the smoke beast kill them off, too.

I am ambivelent about Juliet-- good point that if Sawyer thinks she's cold blooded, she probably is (he would know). Agreed, if Jack lets Benry die in surgery, it will be his total downfall and have many unintended consequences. On the one hand, Jack is not a murderer and I find it hard to believe he'd violate his 'do no harm' dr's oath-- on the other hand, Jack can be dumb as dirt sometimes so maybe Juliet can convince him (before he got captured, he was starting to annoy the hell out of me with his emotional, bossy, favorites-playing 'Let's run out into the woods with guns' response to every crisis).

Intriguing theory someone had about eye-patch man releasing the smoke near Pearl Station when he noticed he was being watched-- Rousseau did call the smoke the island's 'security system'. Of course, the Others have to be judicious about using it because (a) they don't want to kill off everybody (some people are valuable to them) (b) they seem not to like killing (though they don't mind kidnapping and torture) and (c) it doesn't seem to be a very precise instrument-- maybe it's just there to make people afraid to enter certain areas.

How long is the show going on hiatus for? After next week, when do new episodes start?

Posted by: JKR | November 2, 2006 1:13 PM | Report abuse

I love you guys. :)

Posted by: Sam888 | November 2, 2006 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Oops - that should be "strike" not "stroke" in my entry from 1:11.

Posted by: Arl | November 2, 2006 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Oops - that should be "strike" not "stroke" in my entry from 1:11.

Posted by: Arl | November 2, 2006 1:14 PM | Report abuse

The Lost cast better make sure that they aren't pulled over for motor vehicle violations in Hawaii :) (Anna Lucia, Libby, & now Mr. Eko).

Posted by: BK | November 2, 2006 1:16 PM | Report abuse

I could be way off-base, but regarding the white robes, I thought this was typical dress for Japanese funerals, and thus a reference to the Hanso Foundation.

Posted by: AH | November 2, 2006 1:18 PM | Report abuse

How come hold-a-grudge Charlie didn't buy the farm; instead of Eko??

Posted by: saint | November 2, 2006 1:19 PM | Report abuse


My wife hates it that whenever Charlie is on screen I repeatedly say 'stab him'.

Posted by: Kim | November 2, 2006 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't Hurley have told Locke that he might need more people; if he was going to go against the Others; seeing as how he had just come back from a group that was 99% captured? First Locke said he would get Jack and the others back, then he rescued Echo; then he said he was going to the 2nd hatch.
About this time Locke should start talking to the writers saying "Your turning my character into an multiple-personalities of limited intelligences; that don't know what they are doing from one episode to the other"!!?? But perhaps this episode was hacknied because they decided to do Echo in; after rescuing him??-So he ran off into the jungle;even though he had previously been almost dinner for a polar-bear-wolverine-raccoon type creature.

Posted by: TheBorg | November 2, 2006 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Do not attempt a hit of Jack Daniels every time they say "Jack". Impossible to keep up...

Posted by: hungover | November 2, 2006 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Kelli said: "Did anyone else find it odd that they spent an entire episode's backstory on a character who will no longer be part of the show? That is, no later island mysteries can be solved with information from this backstory because Eko (and his personal mysteries) are gone. An odd choice for the writers, I thought."

The writers did the same thing when they killed off Shannon last season. The entire episode's backstory was about her to show us that she had an emotionally rough life and was not just some shallow narcissistic b*tch.

Posted by: Doc | November 2, 2006 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Juliet? knew that Bener had a Tumor but didn't tell him-only that he had "slipped Disk" that would get better.
When Jack spilled the beans about the Tumor; suddenly Ben wants Jack to do the surgery.
( Juliet alibied by telling Bener that she's a geneticist and not a surgeon ; so she missed the cancer ). --OR-- Ben wants to know if he can trust Jack to do the surgery;-if he goes for Juliet's faked plan?--Then he knows he can't trust him.
If Jack is true to form he should tell him "I would have done the surgery; if you guys had only asked us; instead of kidnapping us!!??" But Ben would be more distrustful; so Kate and Sawyer are hostages to insure that Jack's knife does not "slip". If Jack kills him; then Juliet will execute the captive losties.

Posted by: DrPhibes | November 2, 2006 1:51 PM | Report abuse

To JKR: after next week the next new episode is Feb. 7.

Posted by: Cosmo | November 2, 2006 1:53 PM | Report abuse

The new Losties are "replacement" others to keep an eye on the actual Losties.
That's why they seem non-plussed over Eko and why the guy knew that he could go to the Can in the New or 2nd Hatch. HA! Go To The CAN In The HATCH! HA!

Posted by: smersh | November 2, 2006 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I could be way off-base, but regarding the white robes, I thought this was typical dress for Japanese funerals, and thus a reference to the Hanso Foundation.

The white robes remind me of a Druid ceremony. The funeral for the girl where they set a casket off into the sea and set it ablaze is reminiscient of a Viking funeral. And "numaste" is a Hindi greeting, so that would suggest more of a Hindu influence.

Great catch with the removal of the boulder seal to the tomb as a Christ reference. I recall thinking when I saw it that the boulder was sealing the plane like a tomb, but the thought fleeted before any connection could be made.

Another note about the others. They have no problem with murder, it only seems that they like to manipulate others into committing it (Ana Lucia with Ethan, Michael with Ana Lucia and now Jack with Benry).

I'm hoping that Jack will adhere to his oath and just perform the surgery on Benry. Those x-rays were clearly planted (who leaves x-rays up on the board?). It's probably a ploy and just not worth compromising your principles.

Oh, and I'm sad to see Eko go. He was my favorite, but I respect his decision to leave the show. As for the folks who see a racist plot here, I think that historically they may be right, but in this case they are not. The facts just aren't there to support the assertion. Nobody wins when people see things in shades of color before all else.

Posted by: LostFool | November 2, 2006 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, haven't read ALL the comments, but....

With the exception of Bernard, all the "Tailies" we were introduced to last season have been killed. So I ask, what was the point in last season? Until I find a point, I think this show is no longer appointment TV.

Posted by: Tiff in the OK | November 2, 2006 2:08 PM | Report abuse

The Dharma experiment is ongoing and/or in "automatic" mode-otherwise there wouldn't have been an airdrop of food in the one episode. ( The guy before Desmond in the 1st Hatch was an original Dharma cadre ).
Abandoned Hatch's indicate the experiment has gone wrong somehow-with perhaps the Others not wanting "Base" to know the true facts about the failure until they can escape from the island.

Posted by: AirA | November 2, 2006 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, it seems like a stretch for Locke to make a field trip by inviting the camp to join his excursion to the Pearl hatch. Again, questionable motivation.

Does anyone think Juliet and Benry are double-teaming Jack? Convince him to operate with the intention to kill, but knowing Jack's moral compass won't allow him to do harm and will save Benry in the end. Probably works better than a "pretty please" from Benry.

Posted by: Zippy | November 2, 2006 2:14 PM | Report abuse

1) Walt and Michael will be back at some point. Once the network realized they had a hit they probably started thinking of ways to extend it. The Walt story has too much invested in it not to bring him back. Personally though, I've enjoyed the break from Walt, he's annoying. Michael was a good character until Walt was kidnapped. At that point, every 6th word in his script was "walt," "my son," etc.

2) Using Eko as a halucination now and again similar to Boone could work.

3) The thing that's been bothering me about Jack has been his lack of curiousity or desire to use leverage. You're in a dolphin tank on what you thought was a deserted island with talkative jailers and you don't try to get more info out of them? Or you have a special skill that they desperately need and you don't leverage it?

4) Annoying questions: That rock looked too heavy for 2 people to lift. Why don't remains from viking funerals ever wash up on shore?

Posted by: booyah | November 2, 2006 2:21 PM | Report abuse

>>Thanks to Eko, we can finally put to rest all those silly purgatory theories.

I disagree. It may not be Dante's Purgatory, but it could still be a form of purgatory.

Notice how just about everyone on the island has straddled the path between good and evil (Kate kills he mom's boyfried to stop the beating, Eko kills warlords so the village could have all the vaccine, Jin being a hitman for Sun's father in order to marry her, etc.)

So it's still very plausible that the island is a waiting area where they are observed to see whether they go up or down.

I was glad to see the black smoke return. I was afraid that the Lost Creators would just hope we'd forget that. And Locke has seen the the creature before as smoke. I remember him telling someone that he was nearly pulled underground by a column of smoke.

Posted by: Buck Dharma | November 2, 2006 2:33 PM | Report abuse

I just finished "Gary Troup's" novel, Bad Twin, that is a "spinoff" of Lost (Gary Troup was a passenger on the plane but killed in the crash; Sawyer is reading the manuscript in one of last season's episodes.) The theme of the novel, a pretty run-of-mill private eye procedural, is that the "bad twin" who was being sought by his "good twin", comes to the conclusio that life here on earth is a purgatory; one has to work out the good & evil during life. So I do think the purgatory theme is still a viable explanation, just not a "spiritual" purgatory. I think it is still plausible that these "lost" characters have been brought to the island with one or more last chances to redeem their lives and past evil deeds. (I suspect Jack has some past evil that we haven't seen yet - that year in Thailand, or whatever).
I think even Eko's death statement of non-repentance reflects his own view of his balance of good & evil; he did the best he could with the life he was thrust into; he is not depending on an afterlife vindication.

Now, given the Christian symbols of the rolled back stone, the empty tomb, the grave cloths, etc., what does it mean when the man who looks like Eko's brother says, "you speak to me as if I am your brother"?
This statement echoes one of Jesus' statements in the gospels, when Mary asks him to give a favored position to his own brothers, and Jesus answers to the effect of who is my brother, or mother, but him who leaves all and follows me?
So perhaps the "brother" is saying that Eko did not follow him. (Except for Eko's acts of devotion on the island, he had not renounced violence even after his brother's shooting at the plane).
Not totally satisfactory explanation, but there is an allusion in the language.

To change the subject, I do think that Benry is a very interesting actor; in the dialogue with Jack about the x-rays, his face shifts so interestingly between confidence and doubt, but is that an act too? He was certainly such a good liar when imprisoned in the Hatch.

I also hate the new characters. (Also, how did the new girl know that Eko's brother had died in the plane? Did Locke or Eko or Charlie tell her? )

Posted by: Lindy48 | November 2, 2006 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Here is the quote from Matthew:
While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him.
Matt.12.48 But he replied to the man who told him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?"
Matt.12.49 And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers!
Matt.12.50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

Posted by: Lindy48 | November 2, 2006 2:38 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Buck Dharma that the island is a waiting ground for those to be judged. Or they could be a bunch of stranded people on an island full of lunatics and monsters.

Posted by: Vincennes | November 2, 2006 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Liz: of the most mystical of characters, Locke, also said "Don't mistake coincidence for fate" tonight.

That was Eko's putdown last year when Locke was raving about the island being his destiny.

Posted by: loser | November 2, 2006 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Re: Those new idiots.
I couldn't agree with you guys more. The writing is so abhorrently sub-par, I found it hard to get through virtually any scene involving the two. "Come on, you're always complaining about being left out - now's our chance!" WHAT A CRAPPY WAY TO INGRATIATE THESE CHARACTERS! I mean come on...
Here's hoping that they serve as a thoroughly dispensable first line of defense when the big showdown between the castaways and the others finally occurs.

Posted by: amy | November 2, 2006 2:50 PM | Report abuse

A Juliet Theory: Juliet wants Jack to think she wants him to kill Ben. She knows Jack will never do it.

Rather, it's to compel Jack to the the surgery (so he doesn't feel like he's going along with Juliet's plan).

And he's compelled to do the surgery really well or else he may think of himself as a murderer.

So it's all a plot with Ben to get Jack to save Ben's life.

Posted by: mizbinkley | November 2, 2006 2:51 PM | Report abuse

BTW, I don't think that Locke's reference to seeing a "white light" is a reference to the black cloud. I think it's a reference to some back story event that we have not learned of yet. Maybe, how he got paralyzed?

Along the purgatory line of thinking, perhaps the black cloud is the judge of men. Perhaps those who are judged as good see it as a white light? Same highway, different directions?

The first time Eko saw it, he was still wrestling with his past, so the cloud let him be. I recall going frame by frame in TiVo as the cloud encircled him. Flashing in the cloud were images of Eko's life. I think it was judging him but decided he was not ready to be sentenced. Last night, it was clearly more the executioner.

So, this begs the question: If this cloud killed the the Captain of the plane, WTH did he do to deserve such swift punishment?

Posted by: LostFool | November 2, 2006 2:53 PM | Report abuse

for some info from the writers, et al:

also, the island is NOT purgatory. Writers stated that several times, in several interviews.

Posted by: info | November 2, 2006 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I still think the x-ray was for Locke. And that the spinal surgery set-up for Benry is really going to be for Locke. They'll bring Jack in to operate and have "Benry" covered up except for his spine so Jack won't be able to actually see who he's operating on (or about to "accidentally" kill). And then at the very end of the episode Jack will realize the trick.... and then we wait a few months.

Juliet is bad.

Posted by: Moviechick | November 2, 2006 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Is it just coincidence that the black cloud appeared 2 seconds after Mr Pirate appeared on the TV screen? He could see the Losties - he cocked his head, and turned off the camera; Then, BOOM, Mr. Echo was being assaulted...

Echo will be missed.....

Posted by: Pirate boy | November 2, 2006 3:00 PM | Report abuse

ummm, didn't the polar bear kill the pilot?

Posted by: gull | November 2, 2006 3:00 PM | Report abuse

1. I'm sad to see Eko go. I think he was one of the most interesting characters. I don't think there is a conspiracy with people of color. I think the people who see that are looking to find that and will find that regardless of where they look.
2. I think Jack will agree to Juliet's plan, only to double cross her and actually save Benry (love that name!).
3. The two "new" Losties are a waste of time. Everything they have done or said could easily have been done/said by an established character. Stop introducing new characters until you've resolved some things with old characters!!
4. Along those same lines, stop introducing new questions and subplots until you've resolved some of the old ones! We've seen the bear, we've seen the smoke, now what are they doing there?? Why is the Black Rock there? Where is Rousseau?
5. I think the only way Michael & Walt come back is to kill them. Where else could they go with them? MDK is getting too old to play Walt and Michael is an established killer. The Losties shouldn't welcome him back after that.

Posted by: fft5305 | November 2, 2006 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Wait, didn't the tailies find a glass eye in their bunker (Season2), along with that extra piece of movie? And now there's a guy with a patch...

Posted by: Greg | November 2, 2006 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one who thought the Black Smoke was a pretty cheesy special effect? And even if it had been better done, it was still pretty crummy writing?

I liked Eko and his back story, though.

The mind games with Jack getting him to do the surgery are beyond bad writing. Jack's a dedicated surgeon--he'd have done the surgery in a heartbeat. All this mishagas to manipulate him into doing what he'd do anyway shows the writers aren't paying attention. Dumb dumb dumb.

In all, a pretty crummy episode -- and no Kate. A week without Kate is like a week without sunshine.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | November 2, 2006 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't it be great to see an episode from the perspective of Vincent?

Posted by: Jeff | November 2, 2006 3:30 PM | Report abuse

They are all dead.

"L'alba vinceva l'ora mattutina
che fuggia innanzi, si che di lontano
conobbi il tremnolar de la marina.

Noi andavam per lo solingo piano
com' om che torna a la perduta strada,
che 'nfino ad essa li pare ire in vano.

Quando noi fummo la 've la rugiada
pugna col sole, per essere in parte
dove, ad orezza, poco si dirada,

ambo le mani in su l'erbertta sparte
soavemente 'l mio maestro pose:
and' io, che fui accorto di sua arte,

porsi ver' lui le guance lagrimose;
ivi mi fece tutto discoverto
quel color che l'inferno mi nascosse.

Venimmo poi in sul lito diserto,
che mai non vide navicar sue acque
omo, che di tornar sia poscia esperto.

Quivi mi cinse si com' altrui piacque:
oh maraviglia! che qual elli scelse
l'umile pianta, cotal si rinacque

subitamente la onde l'avelse."

- Purgatorio, Canto I, Lines 115 - 136

Posted by: Dante Alighieri | November 2, 2006 3:30 PM | Report abuse

The Washingtonian in me (read political junkie) sees the Juilet conspiracy as a power play. The moment she started playing that movie, it screamed self serving. Remember, the cards read "some of us want a change" and "it has to look like an accident." All typical things you see in any type of coup. I'm amazed that other people from DC haven't mentioned this. Bottom line: Juliet can't be trusted; which is why Jack will trust her (forever playing the role of Jack Donkey!).

As for Mr. Eko, it is a shame to see him go. A very intriging and complex character. Have issues with his write-off, but still as good as most characters get. (R.I.P. Mr. Eko!)

Over all, good episode. The episodes so far have been good, with a few hints that they are rushed and unpolished (example: Locke's flash backs afew weeks ago, which went unresolved and didn't add much to the plot). But still, I like what has happened so far. I know I am in the minority in thinking the episodes have been good but I tend to think independently; not the best the show has ever done, but still top notch in comparison to other shows on tv. I also know LOST is best seen on dvd...:)

Posted by: Brian | November 2, 2006 3:37 PM | Report abuse

>>also, the island is NOT purgatory. Writers stated that several times, in several interviews.

The writers/creators have also said they don't know how it's going to end, or how all these things have happened, that there was/is no grand plan for the series, etc.

I suspect that the writers are intentially giving us false information outside of the show to keep us guessing.

Posted by: Buck Dharma | November 2, 2006 3:53 PM | Report abuse

eko's character served no purpose anymore..the way the story like was going, he would have dropped off and everyone would has "Where is Eko?" So they killed him..oh well

Posted by: joe | November 2, 2006 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone noticed that the Others do not seem to know that the hatch exploded. If they are working for Dharma wouldn't they know and be concerned about such a key part of their project?

Posted by: hatch | November 2, 2006 4:02 PM | Report abuse

If I was Bernard, I would be worried. Isn't he the last living Tailie?

Posted by: AmyBow | November 2, 2006 4:02 PM | Report abuse

the point of season 2 is so you will watch idiot and sell commercial spots

Posted by: jw | November 2, 2006 4:12 PM | Report abuse

these writers don't have to answer long as they have you on the hook wanting more....they win

Posted by: jw | November 2, 2006 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Those two new yutzes are highly annoying. Please no more air time for their "Let's be more apart of things" attitude. Go get'em smoke or bear or shark or ... wait an episode of them beating each other to death a la gladiator-style would actually work nicely.

Posted by: The Black Smoke | November 2, 2006 4:17 PM | Report abuse

To the posters bashing the writers and JJ Abrams for Eko's death: the actor playing him wanted to be written out of the show to pursue other acting opportunities.

They can't force the man to stay on.

Posted by: Knadel | November 2, 2006 4:18 PM | Report abuse

First, a moment of silence for Mr. Eko and the great actor Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje who played him.

But fret not, my fellow fans, in last night's episode, Eko was shown taking his brother's flight to London. Adewale will be in London developing his project. I suspect this will allow LOST to show flashbacks of Mr. Eko in London.

As for Eko's "confession" (or not) of his "guilt: as Eko explained - he did not feel guilt for his actions BECAUSE HE DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG! He killed a man to save his brother. Justified. He macheted thugs who were stealing precious medicines AND were about to chop off his hands. Justified. What Eko is saying is that there is justified killng and murder.

Juliet's request for Jack to kill Benry during surgery is a test. A test to see if he is to be trusted with the surgery. Julie is the "good cop" and Benry is the "bad cop" BUT THEY ARE BOTH OTHERS/COPS! Juliet was sent in with a faux-coup scheme by Benry to determine whether Jack was trustworthy in the surgery room.

The new guy taking a crap in the bathroom was to show what a loser he is - that while the gang is focussed on the monitors and saving Jack & co. he is not helping, but off taking a dump. H and the new annoying girl are going to betray their LOST tribe and join the othes once they make contact.

And here is my final advice on LOST:

As noted above, Locke warns not to confuse coincidence with fate. The same goes for figuring out the show. Set any and all coincidences aside in a separate box to be sorted thru later and focus on the FACTS. (Said facts do NOT include any hallucinations btw). Then the story-line is rather clear.

Hanso Corp. set up a guinea pig experiment. The gunea pigs killed the original scientist/doctors and are now running the experiment. You can figure the rest from here. One clue - think about where the kids are?

P.S. During the funeral, music was piped thru speakers. Clearly, the Others have speakers rigged in the trees to produce those "whispering" voices that freaked Frenchie out.

Posted by: mr. mxyzptlk | November 2, 2006 4:19 PM | Report abuse

"I could be way off-base, but regarding the white robes, I thought this was typical dress for Japanese funerals, and thus a reference to the Hanso Foundation."

Hanso is not Japanese, he's European.

Posted by: ss | November 2, 2006 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Well, Dante, and Buck, I have been here since the Harrowing of Hell, I am the Guardian of the Shores and the Warden of the Mountain of Purgatory, and I haven't seen any freaking plane crashes in the past couple millennia, so I really don't think they're here.

My theory is that it's a collective hallucination that the crash victims are having at the moment of their death, but what do I know about such things.

Posted by: Cato of Utica | November 2, 2006 4:24 PM | Report abuse

"The two New People are as bland as dishwater, and seem to be mostly there for clarification - they kind of represent the latecomer viewers - they'll just ask questions so the old characters can explain and catch everyone up."

I had that EXACT thought last night. Were you watching me from the Pearl Hatch?

Posted by: Eric | November 2, 2006 4:35 PM | Report abuse

I haven't replayed it yet so I could be wrong...but didn't Ben tell Jack he needed him to WANT TO SAVE HIS LIFE. What better way than to make Jack think Juliet is a threat to him - Just a thought with all the head games going on

Posted by: Lora | November 2, 2006 4:35 PM | Report abuse

The black cloud that killed Eko is pure "Forbidden Planet". The machine/planet kills by projecting Morbius' angry subconscious against his enemies. The machine/island kills the same way. The Dharma colonists pretend they can control the island, but, like the Krell, they might ultimately be powerless against the machine because of their own flaws.

Posted by: Korm | November 2, 2006 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Sawyer is the one with the tumor. They did x-rays when he was put under. This is a way to test Jack and not put the Others in danger.

Posted by: Tim | November 2, 2006 4:45 PM | Report abuse

1) The Others are still hiding a secret, apart from a needed surgery : "What is their purpose/movite?" Otherwise, when the plane crashed, they would have helped the losties and became friends (boring TV). Yes, it is a Juliet/Benry manipulation all the way, even with her muffin dropping nerves and unrest. Sawyer knows she has a heart of steel.

2) The island smoke: I still think it is mechanical/science and not something meta physical. It was something physical tossing Eko, and pulling Locke into the hole in season 1.

3) New Characters: They will get dynamic/complex soon ... or the show is doomed.

4) The others are too modern day - TV, posterboard, cheeseburgers. This takes away from the wildness of the island, but adds to their mystery. Once we know their mystery, (what is their objective? Their secret?) I think the show will have to accellerate to a conclusion with them, or set up a very good adversarial condition that can sustain the drama.

5) Jack, Kate, Sawyer: These ARE OUR MAIN characters for the losties. I expect loyalties will change between them.

6) Who IS next??? Sayid? Interesting character, but he never has an "island vision" like Locke, Eko, JAck, Boone, etc. He is very industrious and multifaceted, no-nonsense. I expect him to find the techno reason for the island's mystery.. and then die.

7) Hurley, Claire, Charlie, Sun, Jin, et'al - Their purpose? It looks like Jin and Sun are on the warrior path, given Seas3,E2. They are now enemies with the Others. Hurley is a peacemaker, but not very effective with Locke. "They said to stay away!" "Nah, let's go set'em free, I had a vision!" I expect things to start going bad, I mean darker... Charlie will do drugs, Hurley may snap, something different. They are getting predictable. We will see.

Posted by: dr | November 2, 2006 4:49 PM | Report abuse

My take on the entire series is that it's all a "long con", and pretty much any information originating with the Others is totally bogus and not to be trusted.

Also, I think the flashbacks are extremely important to the show and often foreshadow and/or help explain the events on the island. With that in mind, I think of Sawyer's recent flashback where he was in prison, and he conned his fellow prisoner in order to gain his freedom.

Part of the technique Sawyer used to make his fellow prisoner trust him was to "team up" against the warden.

Seems to me there is a likely parallel with Jack, Juliet and Benry. Juliet has set Jack up to trust her, and to believe that they are aligned against Benry (just as Sawyer set up his fellow prisoner to believe they were allies against the Warden). Meanwhile the warden and Sawyer (and perhaps benry and Juliet)are the ones behind the "long con" all along...

I think Jack is getting played, and if he ends up trusting Juliet simply because she smiled at him and made him a cheeseburger, he deserves whatever he's got coming.

Posted by: Anonymous | November 2, 2006 4:51 PM | Report abuse

I don't watch this show so I have NO clue what y'all talking about, but I have nothing to do right now so...fwiw, the chick who played Angelina's girlfriend in Gia also played Carrie's first girlfriend, the shrink, on ER.

Posted by: not in this club | November 2, 2006 4:55 PM | Report abuse

I'm still enjoying Hangover's post. Too funny, dude.

Posted by: Steve | November 2, 2006 5:02 PM | Report abuse

I thought it was interesting that Ben pointed out Juliet's resemblance to Jack's ex-wife and inferred that the likeness was part of a 'plan' of some sort.

Posted by: sooze | November 2, 2006 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Woah. Of course Jack's being tricked! It was established that Juliet's got no love for Ben and is part of a subsect of Others who wants a change.

Benry had also said that he planned to break Jack down and make him do something in such a way that it would seem like it's what Jack wanted to do. Well, isn't that EXACTLY what Juliet did to him? Jack's broken down already. He sits when they ask him to, he trusts Juliet even though he knows she has an ulterior motive, and now she's provided him with the chance to kill the ultimate enemy, and is making him think that it's what he wants to do.

And will folks join me in saying that it totally SUCKS that we have to wait x number of weeks until a new episode after next wednesday? This "watch six episodes then wait until next year" garbage was bad enough when galactica ended season 2 that way, hopefully it's not a sign of things to come in tv land.

Posted by: EP Sato | November 2, 2006 5:26 PM | Report abuse

The writing this season is extremely disappointing. Eko's non-confession did not fit his character at all. This is a man who, out of regret for the man he killed on the island, went into self-imposed silence for 40 days, carved a "Jesus" stick, built a church, cut off his beard, and then later apologized to Ben for it. A man who is truly not sorry for his actions would not take such extreme measures!

Posted by: Tirade | November 2, 2006 5:27 PM | Report abuse

The Others are living on & holding their captives on a separate island, as "Henry" showed Sawyer 2 weeks ago. So, the healing powers of the main island may not translate to Henry's tumor. Maybe that explains that disconnect. And while I hate to see Mr. Eko go, it was nice to finally see SOMETHING (anything!) explained: Eko was building a church on the beach as pennance/to replace the one that had to be boarded up in Africa after he did some killing inside.

Posted by: Dante | November 2, 2006 5:29 PM | Report abuse

what the hell happened to the four-toed statue?

Posted by: Mike | November 2, 2006 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Didn't the smoke monster appear to Eko twice before it killed him in this episode? He saw it on the way to the plane. He was drinking water out of the stream/lake. He saw its reflection in the water and turned around. It looked at him and flew/ran away. That was before Locke-n-em saw pirate dude in the hatch. Locke caught up to him right after that encounter.

Sorry to see Eko go, tho. One of the best characters they had.

BTW -- hate the newbies. They're annoying. They don't fit in. Why would newbie chick know more about the TV feeds than Locke or Sayid? That's just stupid.

Juliet -- it's a setup, Jack! Don't fall for it!

Bernard, look out. You're the only Tailender left.

Kudos to the one that remembered the glass eye.

Posted by: DC Devotee | November 2, 2006 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Bernard is the only tailender left? What happened to Rose?

Posted by: curious | November 2, 2006 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Rose was in the front with Jack and the bunch. She's not a Tailender.

Posted by: DC Devotee | November 2, 2006 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Hasn't Jack already killed someone, in season one. I thought he killed the marshal who was traveling with Kate after Sawyer botched the job, to "put him out of his misery". If so, Juliet could be playing off that and Jack's need to rescue people to manipulate him for some future purpose.

Posted by: kb | November 2, 2006 6:37 PM | Report abuse

The funeral: I know in Hindu cultures, people wear white at funerals, cremate the person, put the ashes in an urn and put them in a sacred river. The Dharma project (also an Hindi word) makes me think that the funeral was carried out in a Hindu fashion.

Posted by: Komal | November 2, 2006 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Lost as allegory seems lost on many bloggers, but not mudge.

Posted by: Shiloh | November 2, 2006 7:18 PM | Report abuse

Question: If there's two islands, how did Sayid, et al. get back to camp? The Others took the sailboat. Weren't they right near the Others at the dock? Benry seemed very surprised and insistent on getting the boat so I assume the Others don't have one.

Posted by: Dwight Schrute | November 2, 2006 7:21 PM | Report abuse

the poster about purgatory is WRONG . . . the island is purgatory -- despite denials from the producers . . . it will be revealed . . . do you think Hollywood writers actually understand or care about the nuances of purgatory as you might have learned about it in sunday school??? . . . these folks died and are in an ambiguous place awaiting their judgement.

Posted by: Colorado Kool Aid | November 2, 2006 7:23 PM | Report abuse

I cried when Eko died - it really felt like a gut punch because I really didn't see it coming (although looking back at the episode I can see how all the foreshadowing). But I have a theory about who dies on the Island - anyone with a run in with the law - Eko, Libby, Ana - all with driving arrests. Eerie! And while Boone didn't have one, as far as I know, I did read where he liked to drive fast. Maybe the Island is some great DMV in the sky. If so, lets hope the rest of the actors pay attention and drive right or go for the limo!

Posted by: dre7861 | November 2, 2006 7:34 PM | Report abuse

If Juliet wants to kill Benry, why doesn't she just help Jack escape?

Posted by: Yockel | November 2, 2006 8:19 PM | Report abuse

I saw another and the only remaining brother off the air.

Posted by: Ronald Duane | November 2, 2006 8:24 PM | Report abuse

I find all this fetishisation of torture extremely icky. Forcing Kate to wear the skimpy dress of Rousseau's child?? What was that about?
And again: the Others have access to
poster board
yeast and white flour (we'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt and imagine that the 'burger was polar bear)
Stephen King paperbacks
and an x-ray machine.
But they can't contact a surgeon off-island and get some help?? I feel like I'm watching Wile E. Coyote here.
As others have said, Jack is a surgeon. Given a chance to show off, to play God and save a life, what are the chances he'd demur??
And I've still never seen a satisfactory answer to why Benry would assume the identity of a real and fairly easily dig-uppable corpse. None of the Losties knew Benry from Adam--why not give his real name, or make up something random?? Nobody has a problem with Desmond, brother.
Say...what does Desmond know about the Others? Why do none of the characters on this show ever ask any questions?????

Posted by: HR61 | November 2, 2006 9:00 PM | Report abuse

"Question: If there's two islands, how did Sayid, et al. get back to camp? The Others took the sailboat. Weren't they right near the Others at the dock? Benry seemed very surprised and insistent on getting the boat so I assume the Others don't have one."

Sayid was on the Lostie's island at the Others fake camp. Benry doesn't want them to have a boat because he doesn't want them to be able to get over to the Others' island. I'm a little puzzled why the Losties haven't seen this second island when their island was perfectly clear from the Others' island. Is the Others' island invisible?

Posted by: Buffy | November 2, 2006 9:06 PM | Report abuse

--So, this begs the question: If this cloud killed the the Captain of the plane, WTH did he do to deserve such swift punishment?--

Someone said that the smoke appeared after Eko drank from the stream. This is interesting and dovetails with another idea I have. We always see things from a particular person's point of view, including flashbacks, but sometimes it is not reality, just what they were seeing or thinking. I'm starting to think a lot of what is happening is hallucinations caused by something on the island, in the air or water or that magnetic field. In this senario, the pilot was already dead, they just imagined him while he was alive and imagined the smoke killing him. Eko was not killed by the smoke anymore than he really saw his brother. It was all his imagination/dilerium. Eko just finally died of his wounds. Going with this idea, I'm now going to watch carefully to see when people drink the water from the island. I noticed that before they went off to find Eko they were filling the water bottles from a rain catch. If we assume that water would be ok but island river water is drugged ... omg, now I'll need to watch all the previous episodes to look for this connection. Remember, the hatch had "Quanantine" written on the inside of the hatch. Now that I think about it, it all seems very Alice in Wonderland like. Remember what the doorman said ... feed your head ... feed you head.

--Question: If there's two islands, how did Sayid, et al. get back to camp? The Others took the sailboat. Weren't they right near the Others at the dock?--

Sayid, Jin and Sun were always on their island. The Others were on the other island (appropriately named :^). That's why they had to send a "sub" to attack them and get the boat. The sub then returned with the girl that Sun shot and later died. Well, depending on what water they were drinking :^)

Posted by: Sully | November 2, 2006 10:08 PM | Report abuse

One thing seems certain.

Last week everyone was complaining that the show was just filler and not giving any satisfying resolutions to dangling plot points.

There are zero, ZERO, such complaints that I have seen this week.

Except for mine: I still want to know how Locke got into his wheelchair, and I'm not going to shut up until I know.

Posted by: Anonymous | November 2, 2006 10:21 PM | Report abuse

This show has gotten a little too out there. Note to producers: either make it a supernatural thriller (ala Stephen King) and end it soon, or give us some plausible answers! Btw, its too odd for mainstream America and your losing audience...

Posted by: oy vey | November 2, 2006 10:31 PM | Report abuse

The black smoke is a hallucinogen which explains why people "see" things and have flashbacks on the island.

Nor for a second do I believe that Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje asked to be written off the show. Just how long was he even on it to begin with? The writers needed to kill someone off to jolt viewers and he's was the guy. They used the story that there's a movie he wants to direct for his benefit. It's not like he'd been doing the show for 5 years and was financially set and had some other offer he couldn't refuse. No one who knows the business believes that for a second.

Posted by: Wei | November 2, 2006 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Please writers, do us a favor and kill the newbies... you managed to make them appear way more artificial than a polar bear in a tropical island.

Of course Julliet and Ben are together playing with Jack's mind! Otherwise, she would have asked Jack not to do the operation... why give him the chance to reach the OR at all? They want to study Jack's reactions

Posted by: Feder | November 3, 2006 12:40 AM | Report abuse

It's clear that the others being on a second island is a lie or a "con" on Sawyer, because of the polar bears. When Sawyer gets told that the bears figured out the levers in his cage he responds "How many were there?", then Eko gets dragged off by one. I sincerely doubt that anyone let them out of their cage and transported them to the Losties island.

Posted by: Anthony | November 3, 2006 4:27 AM | Report abuse

Boone wasn't the first person to die. I count the first person to die as the lady who drowned, because they gave her a grave. (whereas those who died in the plane crash were burned in the plane). oh wait, maybe i'm thinking of the air marshall who they gave the first grave to. either way, i don't count boone as the first death. it was either the air marshall or the drowned woman. between that and you guys thinking that eko buried his brother, your guys memory stinks.

Posted by: elisha | November 3, 2006 4:36 AM | Report abuse

Colorado Kool Aid-- They don't read my friend Dante Alighieri's works in Sunday School.

Next, I can't believe someone AGAIN brought up the polar bears as proof that there is only one island! Let me refer you to that unimpeachable repository of the sum of human knowledge; I refer of course to the Wikipedia.

"Polar bears are excellent swimmers and can often be seen in open waters miles from land. Recently, polar bears in the arctic have undertaken longer than usual swims to find prey, resulting in four recorded drownings in the unusually large ice pack regression of 2005."

Stuck on a small island and short of prey? Hey, Whitey, why not let's swim across the strait to that other larger piece of land we can barely make out with our near-sighted ursine eyes. Sure thing, Blanco, we're off. Boy, warm water for a change surely does refresh. You said it, my friend.

Finally, in connection with my earlier argument that the Lost island is not the island of Purgatory: In addition to no plane crashes, there are no polar bears here either; quod erat demonstrandum.

Posted by: Cato of Utica | November 3, 2006 8:31 AM | Report abuse

I propose that Juliet's aptly described "muffin-dropping nerves" were because she knew the plane crash was imminent; Benry knew this too, since he started barking out orders within 10 seconds of the crash like he'd been preparing for that situation for months. So I still question whether it was an accident that Surgeon Jack ended up on the island, which was how Benry was trying to play it off last week. (And if Desmond can predict the future, why not the Others?) My first inclination was also that the spinal X-ray belonged to Sawyer, not Benry - or, in the most ironic twist of fate possible, the x-rays could actually be Jack's which would explain why they've separated him from what they're doing with Kate/Sawyer.

I also agree the new people are lame - clearly the writers know how to introduce new characters in interesting ways (see Rosseau, Alex, Desmond) so it makes it doubly painful to watch these wet mops try to ingratiate themselves. Or maybe we're not supposed to like them? I can certainly relate to any of the Losties who are internally rolling their eyes at them, so maybe that's how they want us to react, because it makes us relate to our old Lostie friends more?

Posted by: Jeni | November 3, 2006 8:59 AM | Report abuse

I watched the first couple episodes this year, and find the show increasingly silly. I think they're leaning towards a different market of something this year. Anyway, much of the flavor and originality of the show has grown stale.

And it is becoming increasingly obvious that Asians are slowly replacing blacks as the token minorities on genre shows.

Posted by: chuck oz | November 3, 2006 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Well at least Rousseau will be in the mini-finale, according to imdb.

Posted by: loser | November 3, 2006 10:46 AM | Report abuse

To everyone speculating that the x-rays are of someone else (Locke, Sawyer, DB Cooper, whoever), how do you explain the scene where Benry -- out of earshot of Jack or anyone else -- asks Juliet why she showed Jack his x-rays? If they were playing a con, why keep that question so quiet? I agree that they're up to something, but I don't think it has to do with whose x-rays those are. . .

Posted by: Doc | November 3, 2006 10:50 AM | Report abuse

When Jack first mentioned the xrays, didn't he guess the age, gender and height of the patient? Sawyer is about 10 years younger and 4-5 inches taller than Ben.

Oh yeah, why do you guys call him Benry?

Posted by: booyah | November 3, 2006 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, and if the writers are being truthful that they don't know how the story is going to end, they need to sit down during the hiatus and make a solid outline for the rest of the story. Then have them sign a loyalty oath about it. If there's no plan with something this complex, the story will be lucky to make it through the end of season 4 before it turns into an incoherent and unsalvageable mess.

Posted by: booyah | November 3, 2006 11:54 AM | Report abuse

I don't agree that Bernard may be in danger because he is a Tailie. Bernard was in the restroom at the back of the plane when the crash happened, so yes, he was in the tail. But his actual seat on the plane was not. He and Rose were seated near Jack. It was just bad timing that he happened in the tail when the plane crashed. I think Bernard is safe for now--as safe as anyone can be on this island. I'd just like to see him and his lovely wife for a change. What a back story they have!

Posted by: Lonna | November 3, 2006 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Juliet is sitting in what appears to be a "normal" household backdrop in the video she shows Jack. Assuming that the Others have a housing development and that they try to live like "normal" people, albeit on a mysterious island, perhaps the whole point is to indoctrinate the newbies into the colony.

Benry clearly leads with an iron fist, so it appears that there is no real civic political system employed by the Others. If the Others are ruled by a "dictator" such as Benry, Juliet plotting his overthrow makes sense in that she could take over. In such a tyrannical system, a plan such as Juliet's makes absolute sense if you want to take over.

Perhaps the Others are subjects of some experiment themselves. If some/all of the Others have lived on the island their whole life, perhaps it is the ultimate nurture/nature experiment,to see how they govern themselves, how they interact, how they deal with being stuck on an island and how they treat new arrivals from the outside world.

It could be that the whole island is several different experiments being conducted at once. Perhaps this is the "Island of Dr. Moreau," but the doctor isn't actually on the island.

Posted by: Krazy | November 3, 2006 1:49 PM | Report abuse doctors. Jack has mis-diagnosed Ben's tumor. Last episode he stated the tumor was in the lower back, yet this episode he described symptoms of a tumor in the neck. A tumor in the lower back will effect everything below the tumor and a botched operation in that region won't kill you, but it could paralyze you. Interestingly, if the tumor were high in the neck, a really bad surgery could kill you because the nerves in that area contect to your internal organs, i.e. lungs.

With this type of tumor, Benry is no imminent danger of death...but this is TV.

Posted by: tumor survivor | November 3, 2006 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Just a note, didn't Eko see the smoke last season too? Remember, it got up in his grill and kinda just stayed there, and then eventually left?

Then somebody asked him why he didn't run from it and he replied they he didn't run because he wasn't scared.

I saw a scared man wednesday night speaking scripture and the whack that smoke was all over him using him as a hammer.

Posted by: Nikos | November 3, 2006 3:08 PM | Report abuse

re:"Oh yeah, why do you guys call him Benry?"

Benry: A combination of Henry and Ben, the two names that Ben has gone by. Thanks to Liz for the naming

Posted by: token | November 3, 2006 5:37 PM | Report abuse

It seems like there is a connection between Echo's brother whose body was on the island and then disappeared from its "grave" and Jack's Dad whose body also disappears from its grave in season one. Jack and Echo both had visions of their dead relatives. I think that it is more then a coincidence that both Jack and Echo saw dead relatives on the island.

Posted by: NT | November 3, 2006 6:54 PM | Report abuse

In addition to mourning the loss of Eko, an incredible addition to the show, I was rather frustratrated at the Losties lack of concern towards him. He just about bought the farm twice & no one seems concerned about him. When the hatch blows up, Charlie is prancing by the water's edge, not concerned about Locke or Eko once he has been told that no, they haven't re-joined everyone. Then Mr. Eko gets dragged off by a polar bear and clearly has life-threatening injuries. When Sawyer was struggling with a life-threatening infection, he had someone watching over him until he pulled through (although those individuals were women-- Kate & Sun). Poor Mr. Eko is out of his head & badly mauled and Hurley walks out on him "dude, don't die on me." Locke is nonplussed when Mr. Eko disappears (don't worry-- we're all going to the same place). Nevermind that Eko just got mauled by a polar bear and seems to have been in a mini-coma shortly before.

I was not interested in meeting the tailies originally for fear that the focus on the Losties we had come to know would be diluted on strangers. But, like many other bloggers, became quickly enamoured with Mr. Eko's character. RIP, dear Mr. Eko.

Posted by: Lu | November 3, 2006 9:36 PM | Report abuse

In follow-up to Jeni's comments about the plane crash being planned, someone told me that in Season 1 (presumably the first episode), a Dharma symbol appears on the crashed airplane. I recall an Oceanic symbol. Does anyone know?

Also, givem that Desmond has proven himself to be psychic, which Hurley seems to have taken in, why aren't the Losties pumping him for info.? Surely they should be finding out everything he knows about the isalnd and the others, but doncha think being pyschic would be an incredible asset to deal w/ the others? I expected Hurley to say "Dude, you're psychic" as a lead in to finding out more, not stare at him like he just ate all the ranch dressing.

Posted by: Lu | November 3, 2006 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Just a thought - what if the X-rays are not Ben's? Maybe it's a plot to see if Jack really would perfom surgery for the Others?
Jack's always looking for someone to save, as mentioned in the previous episodes.

Posted by: Passing By | November 3, 2006 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Lu wrote:
--Also, givem that Desmond has proven himself to be psychic, which Hurley seems to have taken in, why aren't the Losties pumping him for info.?--

Not only that, why didn't Desmond forsee the smoke hammering Eko. A pretty poor psychic if you ask me.

Posted by: Sully | November 3, 2006 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps Desmond is the kind of psychic who cannot choose what he is prescient about, and certain things randomly pop in his head. Regardless, if you were Hurley, wouldn't you be pestering him-- "Dude, what are you thinking about?"

Posted by: Lu | November 4, 2006 8:31 AM | Report abuse

I have a gut feeling that in Wednesday's cliffhanger, we'll see more info on the scene in Season 2's Finale where Desmond's love, Penny recieves a call from the two men in that little hut. You know, with the detection of the electromagnetic field?? I've been waiting for clues relating to that scence since the finale aired!

Posted by: Emily | November 4, 2006 3:11 PM | Report abuse

this show sucks

Posted by: Abu | November 6, 2006 3:14 PM | Report abuse

--Regardless, if you were Hurley, wouldn't you be pestering him-- "Dude, what are you thinking about?"--

I don't think Hurley believes Desmond can predict the future. The way Hurley was looking at Desmond after he predicted what Locke would say made me feel he was thinking that Desmond knew what Locke would say, not that he saw it in a visoin of the future. I'm thinking that Hurley is realizing that events on the island are planned to happen and Desmond knows what those events will be somehow. If this is the case, Hurley would not be pestering Desmond but instead watching him carefully.

Posted by: Sully | November 7, 2006 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Token -- Jen gets all the credit for coining "Benry!"

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