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Posted at 10:43 AM ET, 04/19/2007

'Lost' Dueling Analyses: Forward Motion = Good

By Liz Kelly

This week, post.com movies editrix Jen Chaney and I agree that we excel at disagreeing and continue in that vein for approximately 1,500 words.


Desmond, brotha... (Photo courtesy ABC)

Jen: Although not as good as last week's installment (note to "Lost" producers: That's the one you should submit for Emmy consideration), last night's episode was still pretty thought-provoking.

Liz, this time I don't think there is any way you can doubt that religious themes are a major part of what's happening. When monks start showing up, you know a show is getting kind of biblical.

I found it interesting that Desmond's dissed fiancee is named Ruth, who in the Bible is the daughter-in-law of Naomi, the woman who fell out of the sky and onto our swell little island. (They didn't tell us her name yet on the show, but the character's identity already has been revealed.)

Liz: Yes, yes -- "Lost" is becoming the "DaVinci Code." I half-expected Desmond to pull off the parachutist's helmet to reveal a self-flagellating albino. Maybe next week.

I kid. Well, sort of.

Jen, I don't think I've doubted the mysticism or religiosity that's been creeping into the show over the past little while; maybe I've just been hoping for a less lazy explanation. Not to harsh on any belief system, but in the world of fantastical plots religious phenomena is up there with aliens as an easy out for producers trying to make a diverse set of circumstances fit together into a nice, neat big picture. (See "Heaven, Highway to" or "Angel, Touched by an".)

And despite the religious references (which I really don't mind, I just feel compelled to check you in your I-told-you-so glee), I thought last night's episode was fabulous. The plot was tight, each commercial break left us with a mini-cliffhanger and the dialogue was brilliant. If I had to coin a phrase to describe this episode, I'd call it "The one when 'Lost's' heart started beating again."

In other news, Sawyer can make me a mix tape any old time.

Much more after the jump...

Jen: Just to be clear, I don't want to come across as the head counselor at Jesus Camp. In a way, you're right. It is a bit lazy to rely on the Bible to explain the "Lost" story, simply because it's already been done in so much of literature and culture. Fortunately, I see religion as only one of many touchstones in "Lost's" themes. Last night, it just happened to stand front and center.

And speaking of women and biblical names, just want to clarify my comment from last week about the Rachel mentioned on the Hanso Web site. I realized her last name (Blake) differs from Juliet's (Burke). But since I take nothing on "Lost" at face value, including whether two sisters would share the same last name, I wondered about a connection. For some reason, the writers definitely gravitate toward Bible names.

Liz: Speaking of cultural touchstones, Sawyer mentioned one of my favorite childhood songs last night: "Afternoon Delight." And, to commemorate that I thought it would only be fitting to pause at this point for a little musical relief from the Starland Vocal Band, a reminder of a kinder, gentler era when four average shmoes who had neither Shakira-like abs or Harajuku Girls could score a top 10 hit. I'll submit a dogmatic interpretation of the song to you later.

Another touchstone was last night's reference to Joseph Heller's "Catch-22" (that we saw among the items in the new chick's backpack with it's Portuguese title: "Ardil-22."). Lots of significance for Desmond there, too. His particular trial seems to be the burden of seeing the future. He has these visions but has no idea whether to help them happen or thwart them to achieve the desired outcome. It would seem last night's lesson, though, was that no matter what he did he still would not have found Penny when he removed that helmet.

Jen: I'm glad we agree again on the episode's quality.

Even Sawyer's dialogue returned to form, with his line "What are you two talking about? Which one's your favorite Other?" and, of course, the mix tape. That last bit raised the question, what would Sawyer put on a mix tape? I suggest "Ewok Celebration" (see his obvious love of "Star Wars") and perhaps a song from Cole Porter's "Kiss Me, Kate." Also, based on the cassette from last night's show, he might even include "Sussudio." (I guess Bernard, the owner of that Phil Collins best-of, is a big Phil fan. They have to bring Bernard and Rose back now, if only so Bernard can defend his musical taste.)

Liz: Yep, and little things like that mix tape made last night's episode so compelling -- Sawyer's mention of Bernard (it's as if someone heard the outcry from enraged Bernard/Rose fans), the inane Flash vs. Superman debate between Charlie and Hurley (I've been subjected to that debate countless times myself) and the lovely vignette of Hurley being frightened by Jin's Korean-language ghost story. Attention to this kind of detail is a big part of what made the show so compelling in its first season. Let's hope the writing continues in this strong vein.

But as we move toward the season finale -- we have four episodes and a two-hour season finale left, right? -- we're confronted with several different possibilities for forward motion -- the parachutist, Juliet's duplicity, Sun's pregnancy (looks like we'll get more on this next week) and, of course, Locke's disappearance with the Others -- where are they?

Jen: I eagerly await your "Afternoon Delight" analysis. Thinking of it is working up my appetite.

Very good question about the Others. We know Locke is coming back because another episode focusing on our man John is among the final five installments coming up. So I trust we'll get an answer to that.

Now this whole Penny/Desmond thing is interesting to me. One could argue that Desmond didn't find her under that helmet because he deviated from his vision by saving Charlie. ("Save the hobbit, save the world" -- "Lost's" new mantra?)

It's also true that Desmond's life seems to be on repeat. He left a woman (Ruth) because of a "calling," which eventually led him to Penny. Then he left Penny because he was "called" to the island, and that has led him to Naomi. Not that Naomi will become his new sexy girlfriend, but there definitely seems to be a pattern with our Des.

Of course, I also think Naomi is connected to Penny. With her Portuguese novel, she must be affiliated with the Portuguese gents monitoring the island on Penny's behalf (see last year's season-ender). So, in a way, Desmond did get closer to finding his beloved Pen.

Liz: And, of course, Naomi had the picture of Desmond and Penny in her book and uttered his name in the closing scene.

Jen: Meanwhile, did you notice that Ms. Hawking showed up in last night's episode? She flickered past briefly, in a photo on the monk's desk.

Liz: Thank you. You just saved me having to rewind my DVR to see what that picture was.

Oh, and was the scene of the four campers (Hurley, Jin, Charlie and Desmond) whistling the "Bridge on the River Kwai" theme as they walked down the beach yet another homage to Stephen King? Sure looked an awful lot like "Stand by Me."

Jen: I like all this forward motion personally. It sort of feels like "Lost" was treading water for a while and now, with the season's end looming, it's making a mad, complicated dash for the finish line.

How funny -- I had the exact same thought about "Stand by Me." Being of a certain age, that "Bridge on the River Kwai" theme also reminded me of "The Breakfast Club."

Liz: Agreed. Forward motion is a good thing. Would it be totally wrong for me to say, "Hey ABC -- how 'bout 12 good episodes next spring rather than 17 with five stinkers in the mix?"

Oh, and not to be overdoing the Sawyer praise, but his quip to Jack about having to play ping-pong every 108 minutes or the island will explode was hilarious.

Jen: Yes! I forgot about the ping-pong comment. Honestly, Sawyer's dialogue in last night's episode filled his quota for hilarious comments for the entire season. He can take a vow of silence like Desmond did for the rest of the season. (Not that I want him to, of course...)

My lingering question from last night's episode, and one I'd like to pose to the readers, is why Charlie? Why does Desmond have visions of Charlie's death, as opposed to Hurley's or Jin's or anyone else's on the island? I don't have a single answer so I'd love to hear some theories.

Liz: That sounds like a good place for us to pipe down and let everyone else take over. Till next week, then, Jen.

Oh, and don't forget -- we'll spend the last 15 minutes of today's Celebritology Live discussion (2 p.m. ET) talking "Lost."


Next Week on "Lost": After discovering that all of "The Others'" pregnant women died before giving birth on the island, an extremely reticent Sun allows Juliet to examine her -- and uncovers the identity of the unborn child's father. Meanwhile, Desmond allows an unlikely nemesis to help save the life of a new, mysterious island inhabitant.

By Liz Kelly  | April 19, 2007; 10:43 AM ET
Categories:  Lost, TV  
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Comments

(POTENTIAL SPOILERS RE UPCOMING DEATHS!)

The TV Guide columnist Michael Ausiello has revealed there will be "at least five deaths" during the balance of the season. Anyone want to share theories about who they will be? Here's my speculation.

1) The Parachutist. She will presumably hang on a couple episodes, but she looks in bad shape, so she will probably be one--right as she is about to reveal some key plot point, no doubt.
2) Charlie, eventually.
3) Locke's Dad (who is also the presumptive ur-Sawyer), probably by Sawyer's hand.
4) Odds are one will be a random Other or 815er extra we don't really care about.
5) Sun (since "all pregnant women die" due to a mutation that occurs at conception, and she may have conceived on the island)? Rousseau (just as she is reuniting with her daughter)? Juliet or Ben (at the climax of their inflitration plan, whatever it is)? Michael, in absentia (since Harold Perrineau has said he won't come back)?

I agree with our dueling analysts, this show dragged for most of the season, but it's regained its steam recently! I'm very excited for the next few weeks.

Posted by: Cato of Utica | April 19, 2007 11:36 AM | Report abuse

My favorite Sawyer line came last night when he popped in on Jack and Juliette: "What you guys playing, 'Who's your favorite Other?'"

Posted by: Matt H. | April 19, 2007 11:40 AM | Report abuse

In a continuing thematic treatment of "just desserts", such as poisoners being poisoned, scammers being scammed, it seemed that one of last night's themes was "users" being used, as Charlie, a former "user", in the drug sense as well as some of his using of other people to support his drug habit, is clearly "used" by Desmond to pursue the vision outcome (and isn't Charlie, former mouse, quite angry about it!), and Sawyer, supremo user & swindler of others, is "used" by Kate, for revenge sex.(admittedly not all bad from his perspective!)

Here's my big ponderable, was the whole monastery thing part of the uber plot to recruit Desmond to the island? My attention was diverted, so others may have sharper recall, but Des's conversion experience evidently involved being knocked out & finding the monk in a robe standing there to help him. Was the monk like "Hawking" placed there to recruit Desmond for whatever role he is playing in the larger scheme of things? Did the monastery train him in obedience, so that he would be willing to stay in the hatch & press the darn button for 3 years?! Was it a real monastery? And who was the guy who came in a punched Desmond in the nose? Was he connected to the former girlfriend?

Posted by: Lindytx | April 19, 2007 11:40 AM | Report abuse

I, unlike the Hobbit-Hating readers of this blog, was happy that Charlie did not end up going the Great Hobbit Hole in the Sky this week.

I didn't think Desmond's flashbacks advanced the plot (in contrast to the Juliette episode last week) although it was interesting.

Posted by: Kelli | April 19, 2007 11:41 AM | Report abuse

1. Last week's was the best of the season -- not sure how they can top it.

2. Sawyer's jokes are never funny. He completely kills the suspension-of-disbelief when he opens his mouth.

3. The guy who plays Desmond is a great actor -- I think he (and Kate and Ben) will be the ones to land movie roles after its all over.

4. Kate should be plotting to kill Juliette -- its incomprehensible that she can just go along with it now, after all she's seen and been through w/ Others.

Posted by: Bklyn | April 19, 2007 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Julet's MARRIED name is Burke, I'm not sure we ever found out what her maiden name was

Posted by: names | April 19, 2007 11:43 AM | Report abuse

You really believe there is a "unified theory" to Lost, and it will all end in a "nice, neat big picture?" Let's give the writers and producers a little more credit. A show with this much depth, references and cross-references, themes, that allows for so many theories, can't have an easy answer to explain it all. In fact, I make a prediction right now most people (especially you two) will be disappointed with the end because it doesn't explain every last part of Lost.

And if you think religious themes are just now creeping into the show, go back and watch "Walkabout", the fourth episode of Season One...

Posted by: Shawn | April 19, 2007 11:44 AM | Report abuse

One thing I didn't fully grasp last night was the significance of the Catch-22 reference. The Catch-22 concept is basically damned if you do, damned if you don't (or, either way we're screwed). Unless this somehow plays into the Desmond and Charlie saga in some way, I don't really get what this has to do with last night's episode. Any help?

Posted by: JJ | April 19, 2007 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Just checking if anybody else saw the woman in the picture in the monk's desk when Desmond returned his garments. I think it was the woman who was selling Desmond the engagement ring a couple of episodes back (the course correcting episode). I had to pause it just to make sure, I have to give it to whoever put those seemingly not related items in random places.

Posted by: EP | April 19, 2007 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Did anyone else notice the interesting gaze Desmond and Penny gave each other upon "meeting" each other for the "first" time loading the boxes of wine into her car? From one perspective it had that love at first sight gaze. From another perspective, one that includes the ability to know what is going to happen in the future, it looks like two people that knew they were going to meet each other but didn't know when or how, and this was the "Aha!" moment shared between them. Or thirdly, they both knew they were going to meet, but had been prevented from doing so over and over again (time travelling thing) and now they succeeded..as if it say finally this is what is supposed to be happening.

Posted by: Lostinlaw | April 19, 2007 11:51 AM | Report abuse

This show has dragged in middle of all of its seasons. Last season was pretty terrible until they found Ben and then Michael came back. The first season had a bunch of stinkers in the middle of the season. Last night was not a particularly great episode, but it wasn't terrible, maybe it didn't look so bad because it no longer came on an hour after the finest show on television.

Posted by: Chris | April 19, 2007 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Lindytx, my impression was that the nose-puncher was Desmond's jilted fiancee's brother, since he answered the door at her flat. I took it he was just taking revenge on Desmond for breaking his sister's heart and embarrassing their family.

Posted by: JJ | April 19, 2007 11:52 AM | Report abuse

I once was Lost, but now I'm found! Yeah, folks, we got religion last night. They made it abudantly evident that we should all be pulling out our Bibles to follow along. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm not religious, but the Good Book is as good as any other historical/cosmic/mythological/sci-fi source to hang a story on. The theme of sacrifice was driven home--Abe & Isaac, Desmond & Charlie. Not sure why they're picking on Charlie. Is there even a Charlie in the Bible? Desmond's faith is being tested a la Locke. What does this have to do with the destiny of the island and its inhabitants?

This epi will only at fuel to the Hate Kate Club, however. Can't believe she'd buckle under that quickly over a bowl of oatmeal. Get a grip, girl.

Did anyone notice Jack sporting a new tat? Some rainbow-colored thing on his left elbow. Has that always been there? Does this bode a return to Phukat and Bai Ling? Let's all pray it doesn't.

Posted by: Not Shlomo | April 19, 2007 11:54 AM | Report abuse

I think this show has officially fried your brain.

Posted by: To lostinlaw | April 19, 2007 11:55 AM | Report abuse

I'll be sad, and will sell my DVD's if this whole thing is wrapped up with god or some other superstitious 'answer'...

lazy lazy writers

Posted by: Sad... | April 19, 2007 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Question: Aren't Scots Presbyterians? That looked like a Catholic monastery, ie lots of Crucifixes. Anyone?

Also, the scene with Jin telling the ghost story was First Season Good.

Posted by: Julie | April 19, 2007 12:11 PM | Report abuse

re "One thing I didn't fully grasp last night was the significance of the Catch-22 reference."

It has everything to do with Charlie and Desmond's little drama. Saving Charlie doesn't seem to make a difference - he just dies a different way - but Desmond has to keep saving him.

Posted by: catch 22 | April 19, 2007 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Not to sound like a prude, but I thought the sex scene with Sawyer and Kate was a little clunky. Neither one of the actors seemed to be into it. It was like watching two high school kids having to kiss in the school play.

Posted by: Monk | April 19, 2007 12:17 PM | Report abuse

OK. I never thought I'd come up with a meta-theory explanation for the entire series based on a poorly photoshopped prop, but here goes.

I really looks as though Brother Connelly and Ms. Hawking have orchestrated certain events in Desmond's life to get him to arrive on the island - much like he was orchestrating the "camping trip" to find Penny last night.

So, to take that theory way too far, here's the basis for the entire show (except Smokey):

First, there is a SECOND group of Others who have lived on the island for ages (hence the statue and, I think, the barefoot people Jin and Eko saw walking through the jungle in season 2).
The island's magnetic field/powers/whatever gave those inhabitants abilities similar to what Desmond has now, but they've refined them over time to influence FATE, so to speak - a concept the show is very much obsessed with. Brother Connelly and Ms. Hawking are part of this second group of Others.

In the 60s-70s, the DHARMA people come to the island to perform experiments and at some point the two groups clashed (Second group are the Hostiles, NOT the Others we know).

Drawing upon some Lost Experience stuff, I think Hanso tried to shut the DHARMA experiments down, but Mittelwerk (sp?) and Mittelos continued one portion of the DHARMA experiments for some dastardly reason (not sure).

Here's where it gets interesting...

At some point, events on the island will cause a huge catastrophe, so the Hostiles such as Connelly and Hawking go back Desmond-style and find ways to get specific people on the island (our 815 heroes) - with the goal of stopping the Others.

As Hawking says to Desmond in "Flashes Before Your Eyes," if he doesn't repeat his life exactly as before, "We're all dead!"
Since he's changing history on a regular basis now, I think Hawking's reference literally refers to those on the island.

It's the only theory that could provide a "rational" explanation for the castaways' many connections, that there were people along the way orchestrating their arrival on the island.

Of course, if this comes out it would raise a host of other questions.

What's so important about the 815 survivors? If Desmond's role was to bring down the plane, what next? What's their ultimate goal?

This second group of fate-controlling Others could also be connected to the whispers, which have zero explanation at this point.

This could also have a connection with Walt, who could have the very same powers as Desmond and the other island inhabitants. (People seem to think he's controlling/manifesting things, but he could just be seeing flashes).

ALSO, Walt could explain why the Others seem to have no clue about the 815 survivors one minute, then know every unknowable thing about them the next - they used him to extract info about everyone's past.

(I know I'm getting out there, but it works.)

If my theory holds water [a part of me wants it to, but another part wants to be totally surprised so I hope that's not it] then there are some very BIG unanswered questions that could come up once Hawking's agenda is revealed.

Something to chew on...

Posted by: isaidmoreham | April 19, 2007 12:18 PM | Report abuse

the writing credit last night was for brian k. vaughan. His comics are *amazing*, particularly in regard to dialogue and plotting. The "bridge on the river kwai" moment, the ghost story, the flash vs. superman debate all had his stamp on them, at least in my opinion.

Posted by: brian k. vaughan fan | April 19, 2007 12:19 PM | Report abuse

The Church of Scotland is the biggest church in Scotland, and it is Presbyterian, but the Catholic church is the second biggest there, according to Wikipedia.

Posted by: Julia | April 19, 2007 12:20 PM | Report abuse

1. The Catch-22 book in regards to the Charlie-Desmond relationship: I think Desmond is definitely in a Catch-22 "damned if you do, damned if you don't" loop with Charlie and the ability to forsee his death. When he was recruiting people to go on his search last night, he was very adamant that nothing change from his visions in order to keep intact the outcome as he believed it would happen - finding Penny in that tree. However, there was one thing that he *had* to change and that was saving Charlie. If Desmond had let Charlie die, I don't know if he would have been forgiven by the other Losties who love Charlie. (Though, as we've seen with Juliet, the Losties forgive some strange things, lol) At least I don't think Desmond's morals are going to let him let Charlie die a preventable death in the near future. I think he belives that if he had let Charlie die this time, his vision would have come true and he would have found Penny in the tree, which he desperately wanted. So he either lets Charlie die, or doesn't find Penny. Both are equally bad options in his mind.

2. Jack's forearm tattoo: There was some talk about this last week... The conclusion was that this is a tattoo that Matthew Fox has in real life. We may or may not have a story about how he got the rest of his shoulder tattoo (with the number 5, etc, above the Bai Ling tattoo) but we'll have to wait for the producers on that one :)


One thing I was wondering about that has not been brought up yet - What was that thing that splashed down in the ocean when the helicoptor (or whatever that was) came towards the island. Desmond, etc were wondering about it at first, but then abandoned it to go after the parachuter... Any theories?

Posted by: hello neuman | April 19, 2007 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Re the religious explanation being a cop out--I'm afraid that bird has flown. As commenter Shawn pointed out above, these themes have been a part of the story from the beginning. Also, it's not like there can be any simple, earthly explanation for the incredible coincidences and relationships and events on the island. Anything that even attempt to unify the major mysteries of the show will need to be a deus ex machina--the only question is, quo deus?

Posted by: Cato of Utica | April 19, 2007 12:27 PM | Report abuse

What crashed into the ocean WAS the helicopter...at least that's my assumption since right before the splash it sounded as though it was having engine trouble (even the characters commented on that).

Posted by: brian | April 19, 2007 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Er...I thought that WAS the helicopter.

Posted by: jw | April 19, 2007 12:29 PM | Report abuse

One more thing that lends credence to my theory:

I seem to remember Claire's psychic telling Eko (in season 2) that he was told to get Claire on flight 815 to LA.
I've never seen anyone talk about this, but it was a major part of what seemed to be the crux of season two -- that the survivors were BROUGHT to the island for some reason.

Then, the season finale seemed to dash all those theories with the Desmond-brought-down-the-plane-by-accident-so-there's-no-conspiracy revelation.

All season I've been waiting for some sign that there really is more to it than fate - which seems like a bit simplistic to me, and an unsatisfactory explanation.

So it seems to me that Desmond has become THE most important Lost character, someone who can influence "fate" just as this mysterious group of people seems to be doing...

Posted by: isaidmoreham | April 19, 2007 12:31 PM | Report abuse

ok, SORRY :) i missed that part about it being the actual helio that crashed. i guess i got confused since we didn't see the parachuter until after the splashdown, and it seemed she was falling far away from the chopper and from much higher.

Posted by: hello neuman | April 19, 2007 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Anybody else notice that Penny's full name, Penelope, is also the name of Odysseus wife, who of course also waited for her love's return.

Posted by: mw | April 19, 2007 12:34 PM | Report abuse

the song they were whistling was the theme from "the great escape"

Posted by: Matt | April 19, 2007 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Catch-22 is entirely different from "damned if you do, damned if you don't." A catch-22 is a circular logic argument: you can leave the Air Corps only if you request a mental evaluation and are deemed crazy; asking to be mentally evaluated is proof that you are not crazy. This is different from losing no matter which choice you make.

The anachronistic nature of last night's episode due to the flashes reminded me a lot of Heller's brilliant structure. Maybe the book was a nod to that?

Did Desmond actually see Penny on the island in his flashes? I feel like he only saw the picture falling out of the book. In which case, saving Charlie may not have changed who the parachuter was. Remember the "football" game in the bar? Desmond's flashes are not reliable indicators of the future and he may and does misunderstand them.

Posted by: Patrick | April 19, 2007 12:35 PM | Report abuse

isaidmoreham: i think your theory is interesting about the second group of others being the Monk, Hawking and Claire's psychic with the purpose of driving the Losties to the island for their grand plan.... but what IS their grand plan for the Losties? I'm sure there are lots of holes that could be poked into your theory, but it seems the same can be done to every other theory out there :) (and there's still the problem of 'what the heck is Smokey?')

Posted by: hello neuman | April 19, 2007 12:39 PM | Report abuse

They are setting up a religion, so that when they wipe the world out or when it happens, they have stories and names in place that will match that of the bible. It sounds corn dog, possibly is going to be really silly, but seems to fit.

Posted by: Donnie Garrow | April 19, 2007 12:54 PM | Report abuse

I believe that order was Trappist Monks and there is one Trappist Monastery in Scotland. Trappists were named after "la Trappe" - and we can all speculate what kind of "trap" it might ultimately refer to.

Yes- the photo on the chief monk's desk was of himself and Mrs. Hawking - the other one who told Desmond about his destiny.

The guy who came to the monastery and punched Desmond in the nose was Ruth's (the dumped ex-fiancee) brother. When Desmond arrived at Ruth's house to apologize/explain to her, that guy (the "brother" as opposed to Brother) opened the door.

I still think that there are Others from the future, of whom Mrs. Hawking and the chief Brother are known to us, who are inserting themselves into the timeline to insure that some outcome they wish to orchestrate comes to pass.

I believe that Desmond's full name is Desmond David Hume. Hume, an 18th century Scottish philosopher, was much influenced by John Locke, and much concerned with the issue of *causality*.

Posted by: Jean | April 19, 2007 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, matt, Bridge on The River Kwai came first, that's what they were whistling.

It's called "Colonel Bogey March"

From Wiki:
A memorable feature of the movie is the tune that is whistled by the POWs -- the Colonel Bogey March. This piece, originally written in 1914 by Kenneth Alford, was rearranged by Sir Malcolm Arnold and is now widely associated with the movie. The film won an academy award for its score.

The Colonel Bogey March MIDI file
Besides serving as an example of British fortitude and dignity in the face of privation, the Colonel Bogey March suggested (whether or not it was intended by the screenwriters) a specific symbol of defiance to older movie-goers; many World War II veterans and some of their baby boomer children associated the melody with a vulgar verse about Hitler, the leader of Nazi Germany and Japan's principal ally during the war. Although the mocking lyrics were not used in the film, audience members of the time knew them well enough to mentally sing along when the tune was heard.

Posted by: Bored @ work | April 19, 2007 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Right on, mw. The Penelope-Odysseus connection occurred to me last night, too. Not only is Penelope the waiting wife, but Odysseus is the original "Lost" figure in the Western canon, who had to endure a series of trials to find his way home. Last night's episode really confirmed for me that Desmond is a central, if not the central, figure in the plot.

Posted by: Anon | April 19, 2007 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Here's my stab at the why Desmond sees Charlie die question.

There really is no telling at this point how many times Des has gone around and had to turn the key. But we know it is at least four by now. We know since that's how many times Des has now saved Charlie.

I also think you can go ahead and tack on a fifth which is the real first time around when Charlie was killed in the hatch explosion. At the end of season two there is a very specific scene where Des tells Charlie to get out of the hatch. That was our first time around obviously, but not Des's.

At some point in time Des will have to go back around so he can turn his key again. This point will coincide with Charlie's death since Des will not be able to see that "last" death coming until the next time he comes around again.


Also, there are now three existences of the picture of Pen and Des. The one Des has, the one we see next to Penny's bed at the end of season two and the one in Naomi's copy of Catch-22 (assuming Penny didn't give Naomi her copy of the picture to help her identify Des by).


Posted by: Thomas | April 19, 2007 1:14 PM | Report abuse

This isn't really connected to last night's show, but I'm hoping someone can clear up some things for me. Did Ben and the Others know about Desmond in the Hatch typing the numbers before the plane crashed? Didn't they have a camera in there? If they did know about him, do they now know that he was the cause of the plane crashing? I can't remember this connection being explained.

Posted by: Tdot | April 19, 2007 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure if The Others knew about it, but wouldn't it be amusing if Locke mentioned the button off-hand and Henry was like, "There was a WHAT, and you did WHAT!?!"

Posted by: jw | April 19, 2007 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Did last nights show give us any evidence of whether Desmond's visions are him seeing the future or is he repeating everything in a loop? The writers are going to have to clear this up if we are to make any sense of what it all means.

Posted by: confused | April 19, 2007 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I'd been wondering that. The Others keep referring to "the day the sky turned purple", as if they are unaware of the cause of it. They had a camera in the living quarters, and a computer presumably connected to the one in the Hatch (so that Walt or someone pretending to be Walt could communicate with his father) but is it possible they didn't know about the countdown? Or don't know that it has stopped?

Posted by: re Tdot | April 19, 2007 2:02 PM | Report abuse

lol, jw that made me laugh. although one thing we do know about this show for sure is that no one EVER asks the obvious questions on this island...

I'm pretty sure the Others had access to the video feed from the cameras in Desmond's hatch (I believe at one point we see Jack on their screens while he's in the hatch - was it in Paulo's flashback?), but we don't yet have the evidence that the Others knew about the button per se.... someone tell me if that's wrong :)

Posted by: hello neuman | April 19, 2007 2:03 PM | Report abuse

If you go back to season 1, right after the crash, when Jack asks Kate to sew up his wound...you will see that Jack has another tatoo on the INSIDE of his arm.

Posted by: tykoto | April 19, 2007 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Ben knows about the countdown clock from when he was a prisoner in the hatch. In "Lockdown," the doors close and crush Locke's legs while Ben (as Henry) goes to push the button. Of course, at the end, he tells Locke he didn't push the button. With the finale of that season, I think we can all assume he did because otherwise the sky would have turned purple at that point.

Posted by: kf | April 19, 2007 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Hi Liz - trying to submit comments on your live discussion today, but the server won't let me submit anything (tried a bunch of times).
Fyi, etc.

Posted by: trying to post again | April 19, 2007 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Regarding "Catch 22", there are a couple of other significances I think. First, in the novel, as I recall, one feature is the same story being told from various characters' point of view (Rashomon style) - and we certainly get that in the "Lost" flashbacks. Second, the novel is set on an island in the Tuscan chain of islands which feature Elba, where Napoleon was first exiled. Third, the main thing that flips Yossarian out in "Catch 22" is that there are these people he doesn't know and who don't even know him, who want to kill him. To Yossarian, that's the height of the absurd. That, and the fact that the number of flight missions required before you can complete your tour of duty, keeps arbitrarily rising. In other words, Yossarian had to keep "punching in the numbers", too - or be very creative in seeking ways to avoid that.

Posted by: Jean | April 19, 2007 2:25 PM | Report abuse

The Others act like they did NOT know about Desmond and the impact of the button because they were surprised when the hatch blew up, AND they did not know about Desmond's boat (even after 3 years).

Posted by: dr | April 19, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

It's "mixed tape," not "mix tape." How many menus have you seen with "toss salad"? Same type of error.

Posted by: Pedantic editor | April 19, 2007 2:55 PM | Report abuse

How many menus have you seen with "toss salad"?

Not as many as advertise "ice tea" or "sweet tea".

Posted by: Jean | April 19, 2007 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Grammatically, it may be 'mixed tape', but "mixtape" is the commonly accepted term at this point. Now if I can just spread the word about the difference between phase and faze.

Posted by: mix tape | April 19, 2007 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Ah, yes. Henry already knows about the button from his fun mind-games with Locke. It seems so long ago.

Posted by: jw | April 19, 2007 3:13 PM | Report abuse

I didn't know the guy who wrote last night's episode was also a comic book writer. Back in the late 60s or early 70s there was a big race around the world between the Flash and Superman. (I remember it from my youth.) And it went much as Charlie and Hurley described it, the Flash passing right through things and Supes having to run around or over obstacles. But the fix was in and the two had pre-arranged to end in a tie.

Posted by: SteveH | April 19, 2007 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Just a general comment. . .

It sure is a welcome change to read the comments posted on this blog (compared to some of the other blogs). Folks here are almost universally intelligent, erudite, and polite. How nice!

Posted by: sen | April 19, 2007 3:30 PM | Report abuse

"I didn't know the guy who wrote last night's episode was also a comic book writer." Yes, he writes the brilliant and plot twist-y 'Y: The Last Man' and 'Ex Machina'. I recommend either to fans of Lost - they both use flashbacks and twisting narratives to great effect. He also writes "Runaways", a young-adult series about some kids whose parents turn out to be supervillains. His books have the same verbal snap as Joss Whedon's TV shows, which were my favorites before Lost - and Whedon is a fan of his. Nothing but good can come of his addition to the writing staff.

Posted by: re SteveH | April 19, 2007 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Pedantic editor,

A Google search yields 17,100,000 hits for mix tape, 2,770,000 hits for mixtape, and 1,850,000 hits for mixed tape. I created many mix tapes in my day, and now create mix CDs.

Wikipedia, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mix_tape, has an interesting discussion of mixtapes, with a 10 item table of contents. Many of the references cited use either mix tape or mixtape.

I've never heard a DJ or a love smitten guy or gal use the words "mixed tape" (or mixed CD).

Posted by: abc | April 19, 2007 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Monk - Agreed on the sex scene. Maybe it was deliberate to show that Kate was doing it despite Jack, but it was awkward. Sawyer sounded like he enjoyed himself!

Why is Kate calling Sawyer James this episode, did I miss something? I know he is not supposed to be using nicknames, is that it?

Posted by: cmac | April 19, 2007 3:49 PM | Report abuse

"Mixed tape" is like what you get when you go to Costco and by that big bargan bag that has like 30 kinds of tape in it.

Sort of like "mixed nuts".

Posted by: jw | April 19, 2007 3:51 PM | Report abuse

kate has been calling sawyer by his real name, james, for a while now, and especially does it when she's angry with him.

Posted by: james | April 19, 2007 3:51 PM | Report abuse

She's been calling him James for a while--did she start right after she found out Sawyer wasn't his real name? I think it was part of her strategy to get him to stop making people hate him.

Posted by: jw | April 19, 2007 3:52 PM | Report abuse

"There really is no telling at this point how many times Des has gone around and had to turn the key. But we know it is at least four by now. We know since that's how many times Des has now saved Charlie."

huh? all of the past does not repeat each time desmond saves charlie.

Posted by: pat | April 19, 2007 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Last night, I realized something.

Kate is pregnant.

We just don't know it yet.

Posted by: Will in Seattle | April 19, 2007 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Sigh! CHarlie dodged another Bullett, err giant arrow last night!!
Charlie doesn't get a bye just because he was a hobbitt! Unless he wants to don the gear again on the Island!!
I said more ham is right-Another group of "Others" on the island are probably the "hostiles" the Dharma people talked about over-running their communications building.
Sawyer has the funniest lines, er writer. Hugo getting him to stop calling people nick-names is just
acting envy written into the script.
Desmond should have to rescue two people on opposite ends of the island at once; that would solve the Charlie problem. H'm. Who do I rescue Kate or Charlie??
Sorry!; Charlie!

Posted by: NoCharlie | April 19, 2007 4:00 PM | Report abuse

The "Others" Ryan Homes Community is still vacant this episode; but I guess Kate and Jack deserve a rest from trudging back across the island.
Sooner or later the writer's must address the illogicity of the Losties not wildly running back across the island to occupy it.

Posted by: NoCharlie | April 19, 2007 4:05 PM | Report abuse

NoCharlie: It's a good thing that they didn't, since the one of the flashbacks last week had Benry telling Juliet "See you in a week."

Posted by: b | April 19, 2007 4:13 PM | Report abuse

My guess on why Charlie? When the hatch imploded, Charlie apparently was supposed to die. Remember 4 people was affected by that event, Charlie, Ecko, Locke and Desmond. All of them came out different. Ecko started seeing his brother who turned out to be the smoke monster trying to kill him, Locke became closer with the island, Desmond started to see the future, Charlie. What was Charlie's gift? It never came out or did it? That's my theory on "why Charlie?" He connected to events on the island as much as Locke and Desmond now. Also, remember last night episode told us that Desmond is a coward. Him saving Charlie each time proves that statement wrong.

Posted by: gvnelson215 | April 19, 2007 4:17 PM | Report abuse

To Pat: I agree that there isn't necessarily a direct connection between Charlie dying and Des returning through the loop but it would seem to coincide. We know that Des goes back in time. This leaves us wondering whether Des is seeing into the future or having the same kind of flash memories of his previous experience on the island as he was having when he was in London. My bet is it's the latter. If that is the case then he would be having these memories of Charlie dying up to the point that he ends up bouncing back to the hatch. It's just a theory of course but the two seem intertwined.

Posted by: Thomas | April 19, 2007 4:26 PM | Report abuse

I think that's a good theory - everyone but Charlie has suffered serious repercussions from being in the Hatch at the time of the implosion. The reason Charlie keeps dying in the visions is that he was meant to have died that day.
It's probably good for Desmond that he keeps saving him too - people who kill other people on the island tend to get in trouble as well...
see the karma theory that was mentioned last week.
Fun stuff!

Posted by: re gvnelson | April 19, 2007 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Remember when Charlie died when Ethan hung him from a tree? Maybe its like Final Destination with him and he was supposed to have died then and its just catchin up with him.

Posted by: waltwashere | April 19, 2007 4:35 PM | Report abuse

isaidmoreham - nice theory...one of the best ones I've heard so far. Good point with the whispers, that definitely fits in. Maybe some of the people who have influenced our Losties to get to the island - other than Monk & Mrs. Hawkins - are part of the "bad group" too (or are being manipulated by them somehow?)

NoCharlie - "The Others Ryan Homes Community" - LMAO! I've wondered the same thing.

Posted by: jojo | April 19, 2007 4:43 PM | Report abuse

gvnelson215, we've known since last season, when Desmond left Penny (right after that photo was taken) that he considers himself a coward. It's not a revelation from last night's episode.

Posted by: nonagon | April 19, 2007 4:58 PM | Report abuse

My head is spinning with the time travel, but I'm pretty sure that Des is not supposed to be seeing the future but is supposed to be reliving the past. He has flashes of memory about what happened in the past, but since he's now reliving the past the memories predict the "future" or put another way Des's next step in reliving the past he's already been through.

Ms. Hawking sent him back to the past to relive it and to follow his destiny, which apparently had to do with pushing the button and turning the key after the button was not properly pushed.

My question, however, is that if Des alters the past so that it is different than the one he lived through how can he have "memories" of the new altered course that the past has taken? He could have remembered how Charlie died once, but after he saves Charlie, the past has been altered and is no longer the exact one Des lived through. So how can he know the succesive and changing manners of Charlie's demise? Is he in these cases seeing the future? Or did his past always include saving Charlie?

Random query re Des's "bringing" the 815ers to the Island, with full disclosure that I don't remember exactly how this happened: Didn't somebody else fail to push the button on time and wasn't this failure what caused the purple sky and associated weirdness including Oceanic 815 dropping on the Island? After that failure Des turned the key to stop the event. If Des had turned the key earlier would the 815ers never have crashed. Was his destiny bringing them to the island or did he fail in his destiny of keeping them off?

Posted by: all mix up | April 19, 2007 5:09 PM | Report abuse

"What's so important about the 815 survivors? If Desmond's role was to bring down the plane, what next? What's their ultimate goal?"

Maybe you implied this already, but maybe the 815 survivors are there expressly to counteract (interact with?)the Others we know and love(Ben, Juliet, etc.) on behalf of the 2nd Group (the monk, Mrs. Hawkins, etc.) because at this point in time the 2nd Group can't defend themselves for some reason. They're there to throw the Ben-Juliet troupe off their destined course, thereby saving the 2nd group somehow in the future/past. Maybe they don't exist yet, maybe they're already extinct? Most of the remaining Losties aren't 100% sin-free, so there's less guilt for the 2nd group in having these "bad people" serve this sentence and/or sacrifice themselves. OR, alternatively, the 2nd group intentionally recruited people who they knew were capable of immoral acts but weren't really going to raise the Others' hackles. That is, the Losties are an involuntary, unwitting army being manipulated into "fighting" the Others on behalf of some third party who may or may not be the good guys(hence the good/evil, black/white symbols). I realize we're supposed to relate to the Losties and all, but if you think about the two groups from on objective standpoint (nerdy group of scientists who have consistently used mind games opposed to violence and are trying to cure infertility vs. the Losties who will shoot anything that moves in the bushes) then its very possible that the Others are the good guys here and who we would be identifying with if we had all the facts.

Posted by: jojo | April 19, 2007 5:11 PM | Report abuse

I think Desmond ultimately must convince Locke against letting the clock run down. This would break the loop. At least for him.

Posted by: Thomas | April 19, 2007 5:15 PM | Report abuse

I always thought that the sky turned purple because desmond turned the failsafe key. not because the numbers were not pushed. which would make sense that the "others" were freaked out by it. the numbers were not pushed or pushed a little late in previous situations...desmond bringing down flight 815 and ben "pushing" the buttons for locke. am i totally off base here?

Posted by: SEARCH:LOSER | April 19, 2007 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Charlie was not supposed to die this time. In Desmond's flash of the future, he saw Charlie holding the parachute to break the woman's fall. If Desmond had not saved Charlie's life, Charlie would not have been alive to hold the parachute.

I guess that means the flashes do more than just tell the future.

Posted by: T | April 19, 2007 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Re Kate being pregnant -- I think so. She had a certain glow about her last night, even beore she jumped Sawyer. Also, it might explain something Locke said about the Others not being big on forgiving. If the Island is some kind of breeding experemnt, maybe she was supposed to breed with Jack or nobody.

Posted by: Monk | April 19, 2007 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Is saving Charlie Desmond's new "button-pushing?"

Posted by: Patrick | April 19, 2007 5:44 PM | Report abuse

SEARCH:LOSER - excellent point. Who knows what "might" have happened if the numbers weren't pushed - Desmond turned the key and caused the implosion...hmmm, what did the prior button-pusher say about the key again? I must go back and review...To the DVD! And hurry!
Oh, and thanks to all of you for not leaving me to obsess about this stuff alone...

Posted by: hungover | April 19, 2007 5:49 PM | Report abuse

I have a question that is in no way related to current events in the show but goes way back to the pilot episode. In the first show I think Jack and Kate found the cockpit and talked briefly to the pilot. Some unseen creature came up to the cockpit section and the pilot stuck his head out of the broken window. He was then pulled out by some unseen creature(?) and was last seen dead on top of a palm tree some distance away. I know this is unrelated to all of the current events with the Others and the hatch etc, but I've always wondered what was up with the early episodes where it seemed like there was some (unseen) creature nearby. Can anyone answer this?

Posted by: JC | April 19, 2007 5:50 PM | Report abuse

JC: The "monster" that harassed the Losties in the first episodes was a bit different than the Smoke Monster we know now, but I am under the impression that the Producers had not yet nailed down exactly what they wanted Smokey to look/sound like, so the thing that killed the Pilot was just the early incarnation (the "Pilot" version, if you will) of Smokey. It happens a lot in shows that the Pilot-episode version of things is not exactly how they stay through the rest of the series - often times a Pilot episode is more of a rough draft with these things getting refined later. Us Lost fans love to overanalyze these things though, so sometimes we tend to harp on the small things from episode to episode that probably don't really matter :) ...There's just so much that DOES matter, that it's hard/impossible to tell the difference! :)

If anyone else has a different take, please share. If it was indeed a completely seperate monster, it has surely been a long wait to re-introduce it!

Posted by: hello neuman | April 19, 2007 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone else think the parachuter looked like Sanjaya? He got voted off AI and dropped onto the Lost island of exile.

Posted by: Simon | April 19, 2007 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Some of us at work were discussing whether or not the flying thing that dropped the parachuter and crashed was really a heliocopter - the main evidence for this being that the person was wearing high altitude gear including a respirator, and that choppers can't reach those heights. We never actually saw it so we can't be sure. One suggestion: some sort of time machine??

Posted by: NOVA | April 19, 2007 7:22 PM | Report abuse

The reference to Mt. Moriah where Abramham passed the test of showing he was willing to sacrifice Issac I think was incorrectly interpreted by Desmond in his situation. By saving Charlie he was potentially giving up what he wanted most, being with Penny, hence passing the test not failing it.

Posted by: Anthony | April 19, 2007 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Some thoughts on the "Why Charlie" question:

First, I really believe the Charlie is going to die bit is a ruse. From a dramatic point of view blantantly telegraphing that a character is going to die dimishes most of the impact. I remember how shocked I was at the deaths of Boone, Anna Lucia, Libby and Eko but since I "saw" Shannon's death coming from the first few minutes of last season's "Abandoned" it did not have the same emotional impact. This whole Charlie is going to die this season is a case of misdirection. But just ignoring the dramatic angle there are still plenty of reasons why the course correction of Charlie's death makes no sense.
If the universe wants Charlie dead then it keeps missing a lot of very good opportunities at getting its wish. It missed a great opportunity when the plane crashed and an even better one when Ethan hung Charlie by his neck. Go back and rewatch that first season episode, Kate had given up and started crying and Jack was down to desperation revitalizing methods before Charlie took another breath. According to physics and the uncertainty principle, time having a direction is an illusion. From the moment of the plane crash onward, the Universe could have had a course correction to make Charlie dead. Not trying to take away from his character, but except for killing Ethan, Charlie's action/inactions have not had a great impact on the course of events on the island.
Let's just say that the Universe wanted Charlie dead at the hatch explosion. Charlie was escaping the hatch when the purple sky event happened while Locke, Eko and Desmond were deeper within the hatch and thus closer to the "explosion/implosion". That would seem to mean that the Universe also wants Desmond and Locke dead as well.
There's another way that the course correction of Charlie's death makes no sense. In last night's episode, Desmond clearly believed that he had to faithfully create his future flashes for the parachutist to be Penny. In other words if Jin hadn't come with them, if Hurley was talking about Spider-Man vs Superman or if Charlie hadn't been killed with an arrow through the throat then the future events would turn out differently - you get Naomi instead of Penny. Well if Charlie was supposed to have died in the hatch explosion then Penny was fated never to arrive on the island, or at least by parachute.

On another totally different subject - Rachel last name. Some people have suggested that Juilet's sister is the same Rachel in last summer's Lost experience, the daughter of Alvar Hanso. If you look carefully at her medical chart (ignoring the fact it has her listed as a male) you can see the last name ends with -son. I think that dimishes the chances that the two Rachels are the same.

Posted by: dre7861 | April 19, 2007 9:58 PM | Report abuse

I just had a Flash! Could Brother Campbell have been named after Joseph Campbell of the Hero With Thousand Masks fame?

Posted by: dre7861 | April 19, 2007 10:09 PM | Report abuse

My husband has noted another anomaly about the monastery, which appears to be in Scotland. According to my search on the web, there are no vineyards in Scotland (with some "global warning" debate about whether one existed in the 12th century, in a past warm period), so unless the monastery was importing juice from another source, the monastery's vineyard seems like another fake operation. Either a joke by the producers or more evidence of a conspiracy surrounding Desmond?

Posted by: Lindytx | April 20, 2007 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Or just a poorly researched coincidence. Desmond is Scottish, his life seems to take important turns when he gets hammered, they wanted him to be a monk, thus, wine presses!

Posted by: Re: Lindytx | April 20, 2007 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Do we know for sure eh monastery is in Scotland or is it jsut an assumption because of the accents?

Posted by: Monk | April 20, 2007 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Did anyone else realize that the story Jin told seemed exactly likely the scene with Bill Murray telling a story in "Meatballs", about the escaped killer with the hook for a hand? It wasn't a ghost story, because the climax of the story is that the storyteller turns out to be the crazed killer who lost his hand and is still alive, and you raise your arm up at the end with no hand to scare everyone. Both are played for laughs. As soon as I saw Jin, I told my wife he was doing "Meatballs" and he'd raise his arm up with no hand or a hook for a hand at the end. I can recite Bill Murray's monologue from "Meatballs" in that scene, and I once used it on a trip (having only a coat hanger to make into the hook) to scare a few friends half to death.

And to Matt (even though this has been pointed out already), the whistling was without question the Colonel Bogey March from "Bridge on the River Kwai", not the theme from "The Great Escape".

Posted by: Derek | April 20, 2007 11:03 AM | Report abuse

There may not be any vinyards in Scotland, but there ARE wineries. You can make wine out of other things than grapes.

http://www.cairnomohr.co.uk/

Posted by: jw | April 20, 2007 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I think the whole Charlie thing is a lot simpler than some of you guys are making it out to be. Desmond is seeing flashes of a possible future, and has learned (at the time he got smacked with that 2x4 in the bar) that his actions can affect the future. Desmond obviously believes that if he had let Charlie die, it would have been Penny. Whether this is actually correct is debatable, but I happen to think that Desmond is right. As soon as Desmond saves Charlie, things start to look different -- notice that the parachute did not land where Desmond expected it to be. However, there is room for doubt, since Desmond did not actually see the parachutist's face in his visions.

Second, the theme of visionaries who can see into the future (ala Ms. Hawking) was introduced early in season 1, when Claire met the psychic who put her on the plane (IMHO the best episode EVER of Lost). Remember that the psychic also shows up in Eko's episode -- he's the father of the girl who came back from the dead. Personally, I think that the psychics are the "good" people, and the Others are bad -- or at least I desperately hope that it will work out this way. I don't want to end up rooting for those guys after I've spent three years learning to hate them...

Finally, I think the Catch-22 reference is a flawed reference to Desmond's dilemma. Patrick is right to point out that Catch-22 implies a circular logic -- you can only be grounded if you're insane, but asking to be grounded proves your sanity -- which seems to be missing from this situation. Desmond is facing something more like a Hobson's choice, in the popular use of the term -- a choice between two equally undesirable alternatives. Either Charlie dies or Desmond loses Penny forever, but Desmond is too moral a person to sacrifice Charlie for his own interests.

What a great season this is turning out to be...

Steve

Posted by: Steve | April 20, 2007 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Maybe I'm missing something, but I completely fail to see how saving Charile would affect whether or not it was Penny who crashed on the island. Desmond makes the decision to save Charlie after the helicopter or whatever it was had already crashed. So unless this action has some sort of retro-effect on the past, it just doesn't make any sense.

Posted by: Huh? | April 20, 2007 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Here is something cool. Go to Wikipedia and look up Lost. Then find the fluorescent map that Locke saw in Lockdown. Click on it. There are two high res maps with detail. The maps and consequential "puzzle" interpretations talk about CV, or Cerebres Vents. Cerebres is the mystical name for a three headed dog that guards Hades, and is the map name for our Smoke Monster. Thus, a Cerebres Vent is where the smoke comes out.

Posted by: dr | April 20, 2007 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Correction: It is Cerberus, NOT Cerebres. Brain gas.

Posted by: dr | April 20, 2007 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Yes, dre7861, I thought Brother Campbell was probably a reference to Joseph Campbell - since Campbell's prime thesis was that the various religions of the world are "masks" for the same fundamental truths.

And there are wineries in Scotland - as well as one Trappist Monastery (many other types of monasteries - but I got the idea Bro. Campbell et al. were Trappists). Not only the vow of silence, but the fact that they made their living by their manual labor (wine) made me think they were Trappists.

I also liked the idea that Trappists are named after la Trappe and it could be said that Desmond was "caught in a trap" [of endless cycles of something].

Posted by: Jean | April 20, 2007 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Lostpedia lists Juliet's sister's name as Rachel Carlson.
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Rachels_Cancer_Chart_is_a_Male.JPG

Posted by: Elsie | April 21, 2007 9:45 AM | Report abuse

While I think the writing in Lost is generally tight, I have a big issue with last Wednesday's episode. Fine wine from Scotland?! Yes, monasteries do make wine and beer, but certainly not in Scotland! I think they could have done a little better with that storyline. How about some 100 quid mead?

Posted by: susancpv | April 23, 2007 8:39 AM | Report abuse

Oh meade is VERY good stuff BTW. Made from honey ya know, not grapes.

There was the question Desmond kept trying to get answered in the monestary, Abramham's choice when God commanded he kill his son Issac. I was reminded of it when Desmond had to choose between completing the vision and saving Charlie. I'm glad he saved the little hobbit, not because I like him but because its what Desmond's character should have done.

Did anyone notice that the girl looked at Desmond and said his name? Penny certainly has some resources. My only question is why the satelite phone's batteries were dead. Anyway, Penny's starting her assault to get Desmond back. This should be fun. In a matchup between Penny and Ben, I'll take Penny. She'll just use brute force against Ben's coniving. And Penny obviously knows something about the island since she knew what to look for in order to find it.

Go Penny!

Posted by: Sully | April 23, 2007 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Ms. Hawking - a nod to Stephen Hawking perhaps?

Does anyone know how to get to the link for last week's Celebritology discussion? Liz's chat isn't listed in the discussion list either by her name or the chat's and when I click the link in her blog above, it just takes me to the main discussion page, very annoying. Thank you!

Posted by: M.E.W. | April 24, 2007 11:18 AM | Report abuse

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