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Posted at 10:33 AM ET, 05/24/2007

'Lost' Analysis: Finale Thoughts

By Liz Kelly

This week, Jen Chaney and I were again joined by leading "Lost" scholar J. Wood to draw conclusions about "Lost's" two-hour season finale. Massive spoilers and a summer reading list ahead.


R.I.P. Charlie. (Photo courtesy ABC)

Liz: No need to embellish or qualify this statement: last night's finale was phenomenal. In fact, it was so good that I didn't even realize until it ended that we didn't really get that many answers and were in fact left to ponder a whole new set of questions until "Lost's" return in January 2008.

Jen, J., let's get down to it. Maybe we can start with what we think was the most significant moment from last night's show. For me, it was bearded Jack's offhand reference to his father. It underscored my pet theory that the Losties inhabit an alternate universe and this bearded Jack another in which Christian Shepard never died. So what do we call his bearded scenes? Flashbacks? Flash-forwards? Flash Gordons? What?

J. Wood: When Jack told Hamil to call his dad down and they'd see who was more drunk, it confirmed for me another pet theory -- that when Des saved Charlie, he changed the past and present as well as the future. In "White Rabbit," Charlie couldn't swim -- now he's the Northern England swim champion. And where did Kate's freckles go?

Liz: May explain why he didn't try to swim out through that window that was clearly large enough for him.

J. Wood: I wondered about that, because it seemed like he might have made it through the portal -- unless the rush of water was too much, and/or Charlie had just accepted that if he didn't die and fulfill Desmond's flash, they wouldn't make it off the island.

Jen: I'm still mulling over so much of last night in my head. The ending really opens up a whole new chapter for the story and turns everything on its ear. In fact, many things were turned inside-out last night. Instead of the usual flashbacks, we got a flash-forward. And it seemed to me that Charlie and Jack essentially switched places. Charlie -- a drug addict when he arrived on the island -- made the ultimate sacrifice and became a hero. (I thought that was so terribly sad and beautifully handled, but more on that later.) Meanwhile our hero Jack did what he thought was heroic, but as a result, he has now hit bottom and started popping the pills. This gets to the whole fate vs. free will issue, which may be the central theme of the show.

Much more after the jump and don't forget to log in for today's 3 p.m. "Lost" chat...

Liz: But J., as we know, Desmond ultimately didn't save Charlie and one could argue that the earlier "saves" were all meant to be, thereby allowing Charlie (the musician) to be there to key "Good Vibrations" into the signal-jamming keypad.

Jen: I also think Charlie was the one who set the Beach Boys code in the first place. I think when the hatch exploded and that was that time rupture, allowing Charlie to set the stage for what would become his fate. He didn't remember it, but Desmond did.

Liz: And bearded Jack listens to old school Nirvana, so I'll give him a little wiggle room on the whole pill-popping thing. But whose funeral was he attending? Lost Easter Eggs has posted a screengrab of the newspaper clipping, but there's really not much there to make out.


(Screengrab courtesy losteastereggs.blogspot.com)

J. Wood: That's the tricky thing with Des's saves; when he changes one element (like Charlie not drowning or getting zapped by lightning), there's no telling how many other things altered. It's like a domino effect; had Charlie gotten fried earlier in the season, maybe they wouldn't have needed someone to key in a Beach Boys tune

Liz: Just to be clear, Jen -- You're saying that Charlie set the signal-jamming code when? In some alternate past that had him working with Dharma or the Others or what? J., what's your take?

J. Wood: Now that's wild, Charlie setting the code in the first place. And it plays nice with the idea that Jacob is Locke.

Jen: I think the funeral was either Locke's or Sawyer's, based on future Kate's reaction to the news. That added a whole new level of meaning to that phrase "Either we're going to live together or die alone." (Kudos to Rose, BTW, for threatening to smack Jack upside the head if he said it.) That notion is now more than just a motivational speech Jack made on the island; it seems like a prophecy that Jack fulfilled by ensuring they would all be rescued. Locke's words just beforehand were very carefully chosen -- "You weren't meant to do this." In other words, it's not your fate. But Jack -- unlike Charlie -- exercised free will. And apparently that's not a good thing.

Liz: Let's talk about Locke for a minute, though. Why didn't he stop Jack if that's what he was roused by Walt (Walt!) to do? Did he also exercise free will?

J. Wood: Or was he roused by Walt to stop Naomi? After "The Brig," it seemed Locke wasn't a killer. He had no problem putting a knife into Naomi, but couldn't even maim Jack.

Jen: I can't fully explain the Charlie/"Vibrations" thing, but when Bonnie mentioned that a musician had created it, there was a look of recognition on Charlie's face that made me think maybe he had something to do with it. He could have just been realizing that he was in fact fated to enter those keys, but who else on the island would have been a musician?

J. Wood: Hard to say who else might have been a musician. I never would have guessed Juliet for a baby doctor until we were told about her.

Liz: Good point, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some amateur folkies among the Dharma set. How else would they spend long island nights if not gathered round a campfire paying homage to Jerry Garcia?

J. Wood: With Jack mirroring Charlie, I think we get that reflected in the way other characters keep calling both Charlie and Jack heroes in the last two episodes. One is, one isn't.

I bet Horace Goodpseed knew a few chords.

Liz: But the interesting thing there is that Jack thinks he's a hero. He thinks he's doing the right thing, but finds out too late that he was wrong. The flip side of which is, of course, that Ben was right.

Which makes me wonder if it was Ben in that coffin

J. Wood: Jen, with the free will vs. determinism; so you're suggesting that they really aren't supposed to have free will, and expressing it messes up their balance?

J. Wood: Ben in the coffin -- it did seem like a short coffin. That could be Ben, Alex, Karl, Claire, maybe even Aaron

Jen: True enough, someone else could have been a music man. I'll let that theory go then, at least for now. I hadn't considered Ben being dead. Why would he leave the island even if rescuers showed up? I would think he and Locke would just stay. We obviously need to know more about the circumstances of the rescue to really answer some of these questions.

Liz: Ben could have been forced to leave the island, taken back to civilization by Jack to pay for his misdeeds.

Jen: I don't think it would have been Claire or Aaron, simply because of the bitterness in Kate's voice when she asked, "Why would I go to his funeral?" Ben is a good guess. And who was the "he" who was back home waiting for Kate? Could that be Sawyer, father of their baby?

Liz: J., any literary or larger thematic elements Jen and I may have missed in last night's 120 minutes?

J. Wood: On the free will vs. determinism bit, what's interesting (maybe) is how the philosopher Hume split the difference with compatibilism. He thought determinism was bunk, and free will didn't work without a little bit of determinism -- every action we do is in part determined by previous events. His whole point, though, is that it comes down to personal responsibility; neither free will nor determinism got you that, he thought.

The major allusion for this episode was just in the title itself, "Through the Looking Glass." It links us back to "White Rabbit" in the first season, and Lewis Carroll's book is all about finding your assumptions are mistaken.

Liz: So what you're saying, J., is that the Losties are basically destined to exhibit free will? Or do I flunk?

J. Wood: That's a good way to put it -- that they're destined to exhibit free will, if they want to take personal responsibility for their actions. And it seems everyone on this island -- Lostie or Other -- is pretty concerned with taking responsibility.

Jen: Re: free will -- Jack appears to ultimately have been punished for exercising his free will. I thought the writers purposely contrasted that with Charlie who, as you said, could have found a way to get out of that room if he'd wanted to. But he chose to meet his fate. Of course, that's a choice, too. Maybe it comes back down to faith vs. reason. As a "reasonable" man, Jack believes that being rescued is the ultimate good he can do. But maybe it isn't. Maybe going back to reality makes them even more "lost" than they already were.

Liz: I don't think we can talk about free will vs. fate, though, without mentioning Walt. If the island is capable of preventing acts of free will (as it did when Walt turned up to tell Locke what to do), then why doesn't it exercise that option more often? Why not have Walt stop Jack from making that call?

J. Wood: If that was Walt

Liz: Yes, and not another smoke monster trick.

Jen: I don't think the island prevents acts of free will. Those acts just don't always meet with the best consequences sometimes. I too am not sure that was the real Walt. It may have been a hallucination.

J. Wood: One of Alice's lines from the book plays into this episode nicely: "Somehow it seems to fill my head with ideas -- only I don't know exactly what they are! However, SOMEBODY killed SOMETHING: that's clear, at any rate."

Liz: Let's talk about the ship that supposedly rescues at least Jack and Kate. If not Penny's, then whose?

J. Wood: Helgus Antonius?

That's Mr. Paik's ship -- he built it for Mittelwerk when he took over the Hanso Foundation. The Lost Experience is starting to pay off.

It was only mentioned a couple times, though.

Liz: For those not familiar with that name, here's the Lostpedia entry.

Jen: J., I want to get back to an interesting observation you made earlier -- about Kate's missing freckles. She was lit so strangely, almost dreamily, in that last scene. It made me question whether what was happening in the future was real or if it can be altered somehow. I feel like that's what ultimately will happen on the show -- that Jack, who yearns "to go back," will turn back time Cher-style and redeem himself and the lives of his friends. Am I a cock-eyed optimist?

Liz: The subtle differences in Kate's appearance reminded me of the Gwyneth Paltrow movie "Sliding Doors" -- another interesting couple of hours about the ability of one's free will to affect the future, but also possible alternate realities.

Jen, any thoughts on the ship?

J. Wood: You know, I went back to review a few episodes -- not far back enough, but at least in "Catch-22," feckless Kate is looking more and more like freckleless Kate. And that started after Des started saving Charlie. And no one noticed; I don't think Sawyer called her freckles anymore.

Liz: Yes, and Kate acknowledged that when she said "Why are you calling me, Kate?" But I took that as more of an observation that he was no longer his playful self.

J. Wood: No longer playful, and more and more a cold-blooded killer.

Liz: Could be another interesting exercise in free will determining the future. He chose to kill the real Sawyer and somehow consigned himself to the fate of a sociopath.

J. Wood: The little bit I do know about this ship, Helgus Antonius, is that Mittelwerk needed a "special" ship, and no regular ship could take him where he needed to go. He hired Paik Heavy Industries to make that ship. The Helgus Antonius line pretty much ends there.

Jen: Wow, that's really interesting, J. Now I'll have to go back and look, too. I'm not sure what to make of the ship, but -- on a related subject -- I think it stinks that so many important details came out of the Lost Experience. I think the concept of the Experience is cool, mind you, but the fact that they explain the numbers via the game, and not on the show, frustrates me a bit.

Liz: I didn't take part in the Lost Experience. Care to elaborate on any other interesting revelations?

J. Wood: I've been curious if they'll come back to the numbers at all. It seemed like too important a point to leave in that ancillary narrative between the seasons.

Liz: Agreed. For a fleeting moment last night, I thought perhaps the code Charlie needed to enter would be the numbers.

J. Wood: The key things I got from the Lost Experience were what the numbers were for and why the Dharma Initiative went to the island; that Thomas Mittelwerk overthrew Alvar Hanso as head of the Hanso Foundation (and Mittelwerk is your generally shady character, from Austria, vaguely fascist); and that the game was designed to forge this interactive online community, like what we're taking part in right now. In that way, the game is still continuing.

Liz: Also, if we're talking details like Kate's freckles, did anyone notice that island Jack's stubble was clearly grey on one side of his face while flash Jack's beard was fully brown?

Jen: I didn't do it either, only read details here and there. But a number of my friends keep saying, "What's the deal with the numbers?" And those, aka the Valenzetti Equation, are explained here.

J. Wood: Jack's beard -- absolutely more grizzled on the island.

Jen: I did notice the gray. His flash-forward beard also looked very fake, but that's a make-up issue. Speaking of, I'm wondering if next season, the episodes will take place in the present, with the flashbacks taking us back to the island.

Liz: Same here. Or if we'll see alternate presents/futures vying with each other to stifle one another. Let's talk about Jack and Juliet's kiss briefly. Significant?

J. Wood: The numbers are a cool feature that I'm pretty sure they'll have to come back to. Each one represents a factor in the Valenzetti Equation (and Valenzetti shows up on the blast door map). Those factors are things like how fast we're using fossil fuels, what's the rate of world population growth, the rate of attendant disease with that growth, etc., all leading up to how much time we have left before we extinguish ourselves from this planet.

What seemed most significant is shortly after Juliet plants one on him, he tells Kate he loves her. Juliet and Jack have been visiting each other's tent for a while now, and that admission came out of nowhere. And also sets us up for seeing that Jack tracks Kate in the future when they get off the island.

Liz: His admission of love struck me as odd at the time. It seemed like more of a religious kind of love as in "Jesus loves all of his disciples." Jack the savior.

Jen: I interpreted the kiss as a kiss goodbye, a farewell to any potential romance between them.

His "I love you" to Kate was a little out-of-nowhere. But I always believed he had those feelings for her so I wasn't completely surprised.

J. Wood: Do you more or less trust Juliet? She's been lying right up until the end.

Liz: You know, in the end I trust her. I think she's as mixed up as Jack when it comes to how to do the right thing, but I think she does ultimately strive to do right.

Jen: Maybe I'm a dummy, but I do trust Juliet. She lied to Sawyer about the guns but not for bad reasons, or at least it appears that way.

J. Wood: On the "what kind of flash structures will we get," I hope they don't set it in the future and make the fourth season island flashbacks; it's interesting, but will it maintain audience interest? The weirdness of the island is what forges the mythology, so if they did that, it'd have to be heavy on the flashbacks. Flash-forwards, however, turn the show into another kind of game with the audience, where we can try to puzzle things together.

Liz: J. -- Jack's "golden ticket." A reference to "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?"


R.I.P. Mikhail? (Photo courtesy ABC)

Jen: Question about Mikhail/McPatchy -- Is it fair to conclude at this point that the dude is immortal? (Like Richard, who doesn't age?) I think he's a native of the island and somehow Ben doesn't realize that. He seemed surprised when Mikhail survived the sonar fence shock attack. Once again, he managed to live through a harpoon to the heart.

Liz: Mikhail as Rasputin. I like that. He does definitely seem to have his own agenda and only follow Ben's orders when it coincides with his own. He also seemed interested in turning off the jamming signal.

J. Wood: I want to go back and see if he was wearing a special vest that might have dampened the harpoon's damage, but even then, did he blow himself up with the grenade? He was right there when he blew the portal.
Mikhail as Rasputin! You can't shoot him, you can't drown him...

And if Jack's Golden Ticket takes him around the world in an Oceanic flight, that makes the planes the place where dreams are made.

Jen: Re: audience interest -- what do you think the audience will say after last night's episode? We all seem to agree that it advanced the narrative in interesting ways. At the same time, I think the "snake in the mailbox" hype kind of did a disservice to the finale. The ending was not an "Oh my God! A snake! And in a mailbox no less!" kind of conclusion. It was more like, "Ooooh ... weird ... a snake. What could that mean?" People seemed to be expecting a big shocker and this wasn't quite that.

And I love the golden ticket connection.

J. Wood: I think the shocker was meant to be the fact that it was a flash-forward. But, as you've both pointed out, it's all the little things that settle in about this episode that really make it.

Liz: But we were specifically told that the finale would be "game changing" so we have to assume that some significant change in thrust or format has taken place, but we may not actually get the full impact until next year's season opener. Which brings us to the speculative part of this exercise. Where are we going?

J. Wood: By the way, did the scenes of Bonnie and Gretta in the portal room remind you of 2001, when HAL is watching the astronauts talk? Every time the camera went to that portal window, it seemed very Kubrick (and it wouldn't be the first time they cited him).

Liz: Yes, and actually, those two reminded me of Sigourney Weaver's Ellen Ripley and Linda Hamilton's Sarah Connor.

Jen: But as we know, the average American viewer doesn't always have patience for little things. Where are we going? That hearkens back to Charlie question in the pilot -- Where are we? Frankly, I don't think we know the answer to that question yet. Where is the island? Where are we time-wise? And did someone bring Vincent on the rescue boat? Because if they left that dog behind I'm going to be really upset.

J. Wood: Speculation: A good part of the upcoming season will be little subtle changes -- like Kate's freckles and Charlie swimming, and not so subtle ones like Christian Shephard still alive -- that we'll need to track. And I think tracking those will pay off.

Hurley was walking Vincent up to the tower -- Vincent was pulling all over the place, just like my dogs.

Liz: I hope you're right, J., because that strikes me as the most interesting place to take the show if the network hopes to hold our interest for three more years.

Speaking of Hurley -- did it seem like he'd taken the time to wash and wax Roger Workman's microbus before busting onto the beach to save the day?

Jen: The bus did look remarkably clean. Another important detail we need to track?

That's the central issue, though: Will there be payoff? We have three seasons to go. "Lost" is a show that requires thoughtfulness and patience of its viewers. I wonder how many people can continue to exhibit those characteristics. Phew. Glad to hear that detail about Vincent, which I missed. I didn't want to force the SPCA to track down the island coordinates and go save that sweet pup.

J. Wood: Where are we time-wise; someone on my blog asked "When are we?" There was a bit of a clue to that in the name of the man who answered the sat phone.

Jen: Remind us of his name again?

J. Wood: Minkowski. I listened to it seven times, because I was a guest-commentator on the Entertainment Weekly Lost column a couple days ago and mentioned Minkowski space, so when I heard that name, I did a little flip.

Liz: And a quick search of Google reveals: "Minkowski developed a new view of space and time and laid the mathematical foundation of the theory of relativity."

J. Wood: Yep. It goes back to Dr. Manhattan from Alan Moore's "Watchmen." Dr. Manhattan experiences Minkowski space as it is. Minkowski argued that space and time are connected, and since all space exists at once, so does all time. This helped make Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity work. Dr. Manhattan in the graphic novel experiences Minkowski space as it is, so he experiences all time at once. But if Minkowski space is real (and there's enough evidence for it), that means if Des changes the future, he is indeed changing the past and present as well.

Liz: By the way, EW's just posted a Q&A with Dominic Monaghan about his exit from "Lost" and he mentions that his death scene was filmed on May 4. Interesting to know the producers don't have much lead time on this stuff.

Jen: Honestly, can either of you think of a TV show that has worked on so many levels and with so many layers? You can watch "Lost" and just follow the basic plot, but you can also use it as a springboard to explore philosophy, literature, religion. And it all informs the show. I think the writers are secretly trying to make the American public more educated. Too bad most of them are busy watching "American Idol."

Liz: The only other show even half this complex is "The Simpsons." No snickers, please.

J. Wood: Nope, I've never seen a show that works so intricately. It's even changed the way I'm approaching my Ph.D work (I'm looking at some predecessors in books and film that do similar things). I know some scholars who'd totally agree with you on "The Simpsons", Liz.

Messers Cuselof have been joking on the podcast about how tightly they worked with the final episodes and how they edited right up to about two days before air time -- which is partly just how television works.

Jen: Question for you, J: There are so many works of literature that "Lost" draws from. For summer reading purposes, which would you say are the most important ones to check out as a means to getting the show? And I agree about "The Simpsons," but I don't think it requires as much analysis. It's an added bonus that some episodes lead to analysis, but there isn't much mystery demanding dissection. (Although where IS Springfield? Are the Simpsons "Lost," too?) The finale of that show was brilliantly funny, by the way.

Liz: Good question about summer reading, Jen. I'm about a third of my way through a re-read of "The Talisman." J., what else should we take to the beach?

Jen: I finally got "The Talisman." One of my local libraries -- and I'm not making this up -- actually lost their copy. Says it's in the system, but it's nowhere to be found. So it took a while to track it down.

J. Wood: As far as summer reading goes, there are a few things that may add to someone's viewing. "A Tale of Two Cities" came up a few times. Virginia Woolf wrote a book called "Jacob's Room" where the character of Jacob never appears, but is described through a series of other characters' impressions. There's a not very good "lost world" book by a guy named Merritt called "The Moon Pool." It's about finding two lost civilizations who live underground, are warring, and worship a a manifestation of the moon.

Jen: J., I would have expected you to also recommend your own book. Come on, what kind of self-promoter are you?

J. Wood: I'm actually going through Lewis Carroll, a bit for fun. I think L. Frank Baum will also come back -- and he's kind of creepy, because if you look into that man's life, he was getting into the occult and theosophy.

Heh. I'll be updating my book over the summer as well.

Liz: Excellent. I'd like to ask the producers to mix in a little Lovecraft and Poe since I know a bit about them. Would make it more convenient for me to analyze.

J. Wood: Oh, One last lit bomb I'll drop: "The Smoky God." I'm still tracking it, but it's a short transcript of a supposedly true story by a Norwegian sailor, Olaf Jansen, again about a lost world and, well, a smoky god.

Liz: J., Jen -- I hate to think this is it till 2008, but it's a fact. So tell me where we're going to start season 4.

J. Wood: Do you think there may be anything to tide us over until February? (Besides a reading syllabus.)

Liz: Well, let's hope for some good DVD extras.

Jen: The seasons always begin in a new place we have never seen before. That's why I think the next one will open in an apartment or home or workplace in the present day (or future, whatever) of one of the Losties. In addition to answering more questions about the island, I think the show has to tell us what happens to our central characters after the rescue. Then, eventually, undo all of those fates and somehow take us back to the very beginning by the series finale.

J. Wood: Here's what I'm hoping for: A Geronimo Jackson "Greatest Hits" release. With Carlton Cuse on banjo.

Liz: J., for shame! I expected a serious, yet convoluted, answer from someone of your academic stature.

Jen: Yes, I'm sure I'll review the DVD so I can fill you guys in on that ahead of the game. More Easter egg hunting -- really, it's the best we can hope for until January. (I'm going to cry...)

Liz: In episode one, I'm betting we'll finally see this rescue ship and find out who leaves the island. But remember, Desmond knows the ship is not what it seems, so what wrench will his knowledge throw in the works? Will he make it back to the rest of the Losties in time to use that knowledge?

J. Wood: Fourth season may be a lot about those people on the freighter, actually.

Liz: And now that Dominic Monaghan is free, I don't see any reason why Driveshaft shouldn't join the "American Idol" summer tour.

J. Wood: Bets on his showing up in flashbacks/flash-forwards? Especially if Jack somehow gets back to the island and "resets" things. In the future, that is.

Liz: I would bet he shows up at least once. Claire needs some kind of closure with his death.

J. Wood: So does Aaron.

Jen: Wait, more characters? Please, no more Poochies. One last word on Charlie -- was I the only one sad to see him die? Right after he drowned and they immediately closed in on a crying Aaron, it was as if the baby knew his pseudo-daddy was gone. So heart-breaking. I'll miss Driveshaft.

Liz: And his ring is still lodged in the side of Aaron's crib waiting to be found.

In the final analysis, yes, I was sorry to see Charlie go. But I think that was because he was so well-written and vital in these last few episodes.

J. Wood: That ring, and Dexter Stratton -- another person we may learn something about (maybe a deep flashback).

Jen: True. So maybe Charlie isn't truly dead. Which also means -- Liz, you know where I'm going -- that maybe Boone is still alive, too! Dare to dream.

J. Wood: Charlie really came around in the past few episodes. I think part of that has to do with how well the entire ensemble has been acting.

Liz: So, until next year then?

J. Wood: I'll be anxiously waiting.

Jen: Me, too.

Liz: Alrighty then, let's get lost. (Groan).

J. Wood: Most of us are going to be a bit lost for nine months. Bittersweet.

Liz: On to your comments and don't forget that Jen and I will be helming a special one-hour "Lost" chat today at 3 p.m. ET.

By Liz Kelly  | May 24, 2007; 10:33 AM ET
Categories:  Lost, TV  
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Comments

You'll know why I had to do what I did

Posted by: Charlie's Angel | May 24, 2007 11:29 AM | Report abuse

I thought that Jack asked Kate if she went to her funeral. I was thinking it was Juliet's.

Posted by: petal | May 24, 2007 11:42 AM | Report abuse

At first I was also thinking that Juliet was in the coffin, since Kate had that strong "Why would I go" reaction. However, the funeral director said that no one showed up and unless things went really wonky, Juliet's sister was alive and definitely would have gone to the funeral. This makes me lean more heavily to the "Ben in the coffin" theory.

Posted by: YetAnotherLostFan | May 24, 2007 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Could it have been Walt in the coffin? Or Michael? Why a black neighborhood?

Posted by: kathleen | May 24, 2007 11:49 AM | Report abuse

I was sad to see Charlie go, too, Jen! I am not one of the Hobbit-haters on this blog.

What will we do for seven months?

Major questions raised:

Was Jack just delusional from drugs when he asked to bring his father down to see who was drunker? Because his father WAS Chief of Surgery, and if this new bald guy is now the Chief, then maybe Jack's father isn't alive. Did the new Chief say something like, "I can't do that" when Jack demands they get Christian from upstairs?

In all the flashBACKS, we have the sense that the characters are remembering those past events as they go about their island antics in the "present." Are the flashFORWARDS available to them, too? Can Jack SEE those experiences as he's leading them to the tower?

Where does Moses lead his followers? That is, what does the tower represent in a Biblical interpretation? And if Jack's Moses, who is Ben? And Locke?

Any answers from my fellow Losties?


Posted by: Kelli | May 24, 2007 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Liz: May explain why he didn't try to swim out through that window that was clearly large enough for him.

J. Wood: I wondered about that, because it seemed like he might have made it through the portal -- unless the rush of water was too much, and/or Charlie had just accepted that if he didn't die and fulfill Desmond's flash, they wouldn't make it off the island.

More to the point, why didn't he go on the other side of the door with Desmond before the grenade went off -- he had time to do it.

Posted by: Colorado Kool Aid | May 24, 2007 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Re: Kate's lack of freckles in the flash-forward scene. Kate has quite obviously been make-up free on the island, and I think the lack of freckles was just from a foundation, because she looked all pretty and made up now that she was back int he "real" world. I also think the coffin's was Ben's, especially if Jack, because of his desperation to go get back to the island, thinks that his actions on the island previously caused Ben to die back in the real world. Just a thought.

Posted by: andrea | May 24, 2007 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Okay, I may be getting way ahead of myself here, but when I looked at the screengrabs (zoomed in) of the newspaper clipping, it looked like it said something about the body of J____ (fold in the paper) ___entham. This made me think of Jeremy Bentham, the English philosopher (certainly not the first one on the show). Bentham was perhaps best known for his concept of the Panopticon. From Wikipedia:

"The Panopticon is a type of prison building designed by English philosopher Jeremy Bentham in the late eighteenth century. The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a "sentiment of an invisible omniscience." In his own words, Bentham described the Panopticon as "a new mode of obtaining power of mind over mind, in a quantity hitherto without example."

Sounds a bit like the island, especially all of the hatches. Also, it would be funny if the character in the coffin were named Jeremy Bentham because he requested that his body be preserved after death. It's still on display in London.

Posted by: Agfras | May 24, 2007 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else notice on that losteastereggs site they said that the name of the funeral home, "Hoffs Drawlar" is an anagram for Flash Forward?

Those producers have too much time on their hands as do most of us that obsess about this show!!

But I wouldn't have it any other way!!

Posted by: Bored @ work | May 24, 2007 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Show jumped the shark. The drama was driven by the question "will (can) they get off island?" Now, the closest they can come is "will (can) they avoid getting off the island" which is a jarring switch and also just not any fun.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | May 24, 2007 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Kathleen, I had a similar thought, given the neighborhood and no turnout and Kate's comments, I thought Michael. If Ben was honest with him and he got away, perhaps he was coerced into helping whoever Naomi was working for to find the island again.

However, the screenshots of the article in Jack's hand look to have a name that doesn't come any where near Michael's. It might be someone we get introduced to between the end of Season 3 and the time of the flash forward.

What I don't get is Locke backing down at the end.

Posted by: drweidner | May 24, 2007 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I completely agree re Kate and no freckles. I have freckles (though not a lot and not very pronounced) and when I wear foundation, you can't see them.

I first wondered why Charlie didn't swim out the window, but when there was another shot of him in the room - it looked like his shoulders were far too broad to fit through the hole.

Was that real Walt? How would smokey monster morph into an older Walt (he definitely looked like he had grown up a lot) - Did Michael and Walt ever really leave the island? It seemed to me like the Walt, considered special, was saving Locke, the other special one.

Posted by: Catherine | May 24, 2007 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I think that, as time moves forward on the island, it moves backwards in real life. When Jack and Kate left the island, they returned to a time in their lives that was before the plane crash, when Jack still had a brown beard and not a grey one, and his father was still alive.
That would also open up the possibility that they have been on the island multiple times. Crash on the island, get rescued, go back in time, crash on the island again. I'm not sure whether they realize it again, but this would really give new meaning to Kate's "Here we go again" last episode.
The screencaps on Lost Easter Eggs look like the obituary is about J___ ____angham. My thinking is that we don't know who this is yet, but this might be the one person who has the power to end whatever time loop they're stuck in.
Also, if you look at the screencaps on Lost Media, it looks like a regular-sized coffin to me.

Posted by: stef | May 24, 2007 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Charlie could have gotten out of the porthole, could have gone out through the door before the grenade, etc., but chose not too. He knew that in order for Desmond's vision to come true (and Claire be rescued), he had to die.

However, there's one technical problem with the drowning scene. Since the room would have to be air tight in order to hold in/out water, the water inside the room would have risen to the top of the porthole, then stopped, due to the pressure of the air in the top of the room. This is the same reason why the opening to the station (through which Charlie entered) didn't flood the rest of the station.

Oh well, I guess they didn't think of that.

Posted by: Joe | May 24, 2007 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Section 506, I completely disagree. Putting this new twist in, we have no idea where the show is going and how it will end (instead of assuming the end of the show would be the typical Hollywood ending of rescue). Now the question is how do they get off the island, when do they get off the island, who gets off the island (as Jack and Kate are the only ones we KNOW made it), etc.

I'm wondering though...did Kate's past crimes just disappear when she showed back up in LA? You would think she would still be wanted by the police, no?

Posted by: Dan | May 24, 2007 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Just saw on lost easter eggs, the name of the funeral parlor was HOFFS/DRAWLAR which is ana anagram for FLASH FORWARD - whoa!

Posted by: EP | May 24, 2007 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Jack's flash forward: clearly reminiscent of early references to Lost Horizon & Shangrila. The Lost Island seems far from the idyllic place of a Shangrila, but the island did create a true community, beautiful setting, even though beset with the adversarial Others and Smoky. Jack clearly has the kind of depression related to the loss of the adventure and comradeship of his adventure. This is sometimes seen in returning military, and was somewhat seen in the crew of the Endurance (Shackelford's expedition to Antartica that was stranded for 3 years).
Many of the men never found any activity after their rescue that was even remotely as significant as the Endurance experience. Simmilar experiences also reported by people with out-of-body experiences, who return to real life.
A quibble: the directors clearly wanted us to see the Jack parts as flashbacks, and I thought he might have been returning from his Thailand adventure from earlier this season. The new Chief also created this sense, as it appeared from their conversation that Jack had been gone a good while, so his explanation of the long weekend flights later didn't really explain Jack's apparent "absence" from the hospital adequately. When Jack was in the bad neighborhood, I actually expected him to encounter Anna Lucia some way (if it had been a flashback). I had the sense through the whole second season that Jack and Anna Lucia had somehow or crossed paths in L.A. before that drink in the airport.

As to the action on the island last night, a great show, with explosions, intrigue, betrayal, special effects, and the wonderful Hurley surprise! We cheered! Plus mother and daughter reunited.

As to Charlie, husband again noted the echoes of Lord of the Ring, where the "humans" create a battle to distract the evil forces while the noble Hobbit undergoes the ordeal to "turn off" the evil power. In this case, Charlie the hobbit was turning off the jamming signal, while the battle on the beach took place, any many Others (Orcs) were killed, with exciting battle scenes.

I wonder if the body in L.A. was Michael, with Kate's anger aimed at his betrayal of them, and his murder of Libby & Anna Lucia. The neighborhood would sort of make sense and the coffin size would be about right.
I think Jack could be sad for him, with Kate still holding a grudge.

Posted by: Lindytx | May 24, 2007 12:17 PM | Report abuse

I for one, was blown away by last nights episode. I think that for many people there was a lot of overspeculation/mega-hype and compared to that, it may have been a let down. But I think that what the writers left us with is stronger than what we were imagining two weeks ago.

I dont think Jack's dad was alive during the flashbacks, I think the show is too straight forward for that. I respectfully disagree with J. Woods about Desmond changing the future/present/past with every vision. The continuity of space/time needs to be somewhat structured for the foundation of the show to remain relevant. If we start bouncing around to alternate realities, the LOST fans are going to have a hard time making sense of anything that has happened since the Pilot episode.

I think one of the main revelations of the show has been our relation to the world around us, and how we are apart of something bigger. The end of season one opened us up to a larger community on the island with "the Others." Season two showed us that the island was meant for a bigger purpose with the Dharma Initiative. Season three, for lack of a simpler explination shows us that there is someone "bigger" than Ben (i.e. Jacob).

LOST Producers have already mentioned that Jacob will be a major character in Season 4. Perhaps we will be introduced to the "bigger" conflict between Jacob and the Freighter, and why exactly Jacob, Locke and Ben are so afraid of making that telephone call. I hope so anyway. See you all next year!

Posted by: Adam | May 24, 2007 12:19 PM | Report abuse

I hope they don't leave Hawaii -- that location adds so much wonder to the story.

I agree that the end was more of a "Whoah," than a "WOW." And it's killing me that they didn't answer the two pivital questions from Season 2:

Why did that statue have 4 toes?
Why was Libby in the assylum?

Posted by: Sixagon | May 24, 2007 12:22 PM | Report abuse

I think Jack mentioning his father doesn't mean his father's still alive. I think it means that Jack has slipped so far into his psychosis that the "reality" of his world doesn't match up to the empirical. His father's dead; notice the looks he gets from the people he mentions his father to.

My wife's never watched "Lost" and I was explaining the flashback structure to her. "But what if this [Bearded Jack] is the present, and the island scenes are in the past." Ho ho, I chuckled.

Posted by: John | May 24, 2007 12:26 PM | Report abuse

I thought Oceanic Airlines had ceased operation as a result of the crash, yet Jack was on an Oceanic flight in the flashforward. Another clue that past/present/future is being altered?

Posted by: oceanic_air | May 24, 2007 12:27 PM | Report abuse

BTW, the Simpsons' home town of Springfield has officially been acknowledged as Springfield, Kentucky.

Posted by: John | May 24, 2007 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Another thing. Kate mentioned that he would be wondering where she was, when talking to Jack. At first I was thinking Sawyer but now I'm thinking she got together with someone else. How gross would it be if it were Ben or Locke?

Props to Charlie for letting Des know that it's not Penny's boat and doing what he felt needed to be done. To Sawyer for getting rid the other, the blind trust these people were having was becoming tiring. To Jack for leading, although I think that's gonna come back to bite him. To Sayid for just being Sayid and to the Hurlster for that move with the van. Hopefully this ushers in a new age of Losties kicking butt in the a.m. and taking names in the p.m.

Posted by: petal | May 24, 2007 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Charlie! Swim out of the porthole, Dude!

Great lines from the night:

Rose - "Jack, if you tell me Live together, die alone, I'm going to punch you in your face!"

Hurley- "Dude, I saved them all."

How about some props for Hurley the hero?!? Good for you, man!

Not a spectacular show, IMHO. It was enjoyable, but didn't provide the Holy-whatever moment (Jen) I was looking for. I suspected the flash-forward thing from the very beginning when Jack jumped at the turbulence on the plane. I thought it was interesting but I always figured they'd get off the island someday. And I think Jack was delerious on drugs and longing for the past when he demanded they bring his father down to see how drunk he was - no altered reality.

The only interesting part to me is now this ship.... if not Penny's then whose? Is Ben right? Do the Others and Losties end up teaming up against another hostile force coming to the island? (Live together, die alone?) Was Penny able to locate the island through her brief confab with Charlie?

Sorry that more about Jacob wasn't set up in this show too, since the producers say he's going to become so integral, a tease for that would have been nice. And I guess were supposed to assume Walt told Locke what everyone was up to?

Maybe I was expecting a little too much, but it left me feeling flat. But I have until Januray to think about it I guess, and get jazzed up for its return!

Posted by: Dave | May 24, 2007 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one who thinks the coolest part of last night's episode was when Sayid killed the Other with his feet? I mean, I loved the whole thing, but that was awesome!

Posted by: Tricia | May 24, 2007 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Over the last few weeks, we were led to believe that five people (only) were going to die before the end of the season. I lost count on all the bodies last night. What gives?

Posted by: ecko fan | May 24, 2007 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Definitely Ben in the coffin - The funeral director said "Friend or Family" to which Jack replied "Neither". Plus, no one showed up. Who would!? Since Jack had the intent to kill Ben, maybe he was just going to make sure he was really dead. If he was telling Kate in the flash forward that they never should have left the island and that they had to go back, maybe his discovery of Ben's death (& powers/connections) made him realize that he never would be able to get back and that is what (almost) made him go over the edge?

Posted by: LB | May 24, 2007 12:40 PM | Report abuse

OK was I the only that noticed that our little Walt wasn't so little anymore?

Naturally the kid playing him aged so I suppose the character had to also, but I wonder if that was intended?

It seems as though he looked about 10 when he left & now he's looks about 15!

Posted by: Bored @ work | May 24, 2007 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Liz and Jen - how can you trust Juliet? Every time I look at that impassive expression it just looks like pure evil to me. She's Ben's twin.

Posted by: Hungover | May 24, 2007 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Walt was huge -- he was supposed to be 10 when he crashed, but I believe the actor is about 15 or so in real life.

I am wondering if the writers will work that into the story -- For example, using the whole time-loop or alternate reality theory... or just ignore the fact that the 10-year-old Walt actually looks like a teenager. Walt was shown wearing the same clothes as when we last saw him.

Posted by: Nine more months! | May 24, 2007 12:45 PM | Report abuse

I think the apparent consequences of exercising free will suggest a Garden of Eden scenario on the island. If you put your faith in the island it takes care of you but if you make your own decisions it punishes you. Future Jack seems to be acting as if he's realized that he was essentially banished from the Garden of Eden because of his own decisions. Also I was intrigued by Ben's reference to a Temple. I think Lost is going Biblical.

Posted by: Collins | May 24, 2007 12:47 PM | Report abuse

I simply can't believe the writers and directors of a TV show would make the plotline as deep and thick and innocuous, based on such hardcore references to philosophy and theory, as the blog hosts and co-called experts intimate.

After all, it's still television, and it's still a mainstream audience, and if you're going to carry their interest for six years, you just can't come back with a final storyline based on hyper-kooky theories, musings and back-references that the majority of your viewership has never heard or really gives a crap about.

In the end, I think it's all much simpler, with reference points built in as teasers and nuance. But the conclusion of the series has to come around to a simple, fully explainable, uncomplicated thesis.

Otherwise, your vested audience looks up, kinda like they did at the end of "Seinfeld," and say, "wtf?

Posted by: RickNmd | May 24, 2007 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Re: J___ ____angham.

Jacob?

Posted by: Big Fan | May 24, 2007 12:50 PM | Report abuse

The reference to the Temple and Walt's reappearance was very Matrix for me. John saying he can't move his legs and Walt telling him that he can was very Morpheus/Neo to me, mind of matter, and the Temple in Matrix was where the members of Zion felt they were the safest from the outside intruders.

Anyone else think that the ship was Penny's dad's? Many thought last season Mr. Widmore had a relationship with Dharma. It would also explain why Naomi had the picture of Desmond and Penny.

Posted by: Dan | May 24, 2007 12:53 PM | Report abuse

If the kid who appeared to Locke was indeed Walt, why did he appear SO much older? Theoretically, he should just be little bit older - like a month or so - if one show approximately equals one day on the island. that kid looked a couple of years or so older. . .

Posted by: Anonymous | May 24, 2007 12:55 PM | Report abuse

left me feeling like I did when China Beach wound down.

Posted by: morose | May 24, 2007 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Don't people get freckles from too much sun? Maybe they went away when she started living in a house. My first guess about the coffin was that it was Rose because 1) black neighborhood, 2) she had terminal cancer before arriving on the island. Although, there would have to be some other plot point for no one to mourn her. She is clearly the smartest person on the whole island.

Posted by: Roger Workman | May 24, 2007 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Ok folks, stop worrying about the size of the coffin. You're looking for clues that aren't there. I am pretty sure that coffins come in one standard size unless you were to have one custom made and that funeral home didn't look terribly upscale.

Posted by: rnm | May 24, 2007 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Based on the neighborhood and lack of turnout at the funeral, I think it's Sawyer in the coffin. Note that it was a standard, cheapo pine coffin.

The way things were left between Kate and Sawyer, there is now obvious disdain between them.

And when Kate says, "he's going to wonder where I am," I think it's her kid, courtesy of Sawyer's li'l swimmers.

Posted by: rickNmd | May 24, 2007 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Best line of the night: Reunited mother's first words to her daughter: "Help me tie him up?" Ah, mother-daughter bonding...yes, pun intended...

Posted by: Hungover | May 24, 2007 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Jack is in the coffin. That is why he said to the funeral parlor director that he wasn't either family of friend of the deceased, and why he did not need or want to look in the coffin when offered.Jack wants to go back to the island because he really is not supposed to be in the same parallel uiverse with his parallel self; Jack return to civilization may have actually killed his parallel self....

Posted by: fangorina | May 24, 2007 1:04 PM | Report abuse

The site that Liz mentioned has a screen-shot of the newspaper clipping and it says "The body of Jo..." You can clearly see the Jo on the newspaper. John Locke is the only person I can think of whose names starts like that.

Posted by: Tdot | May 24, 2007 1:06 PM | Report abuse

RickNmd - you didn't get the end of Seinfeld? I thought it was brilliant! I think everyone says "the American public" can't handle complexity as though we geniuses are the only ones who can truly appreciate the show. It has many levels and for the most part the highbrow stuff escapes me. But Charlie and Sayid were bad ass "Hiro"s, and I'll be watching for three more years.

Posted by: NancyNPDX | May 24, 2007 1:08 PM | Report abuse

what about when Charlie died how the porthole made a saint halo around his head? When Charlie was hung the first time and "died" the rope around his head formed a halo as well...so was Charlie always destined to die as a saint? a hero?

Posted by: Drive Shaft Daddy | May 24, 2007 1:09 PM | Report abuse

What did Sawyer say when he shot Tom? I don't remember...

I think the newspaper clipping also mentions that this person is from New York. Ben was born in the Portland area.

Does anyone know Michael's last name? Maybe Michael is his middle name and his real first name starts with a J?

Posted by: question | May 24, 2007 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Tricia--No, you were not the only one. Not only did I find it awesome but so friggin SEXY! I love me some Sayid!

I would like to note that I am glad our three shooter didn't get killed (especially Jin & Sayid).

Posted by: Linda | May 24, 2007 1:10 PM | Report abuse

J(o)____ ___angham, people. Unless someone has had their name legally changed, there's no way it's Jack Shepherd, Sawyer (James Ford), John Locke, Rose, Michael, or Ben Linus. It has to be someone we haven't met yet.

Posted by: stef | May 24, 2007 1:10 PM | Report abuse

NancyNPDX, yes I did get to the end of "Seinfeld," and like so very many, when it ended, I looked around and said, "that's it? That's what you are giving us? That's your swan song?"

Thanks for nothing.

Posted by: rickNmd | May 24, 2007 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Linda:
I was watching at home by myself last night and I swear when Sayid did that I yelled "That was friggin' awesome!" Just substitute another word for "friggin'"

Posted by: Tricia | May 24, 2007 1:16 PM | Report abuse

hey, jerry said that's seinfeld was -- a show about nothing.

Posted by: b | May 24, 2007 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Jack was crying over the newspaper article. Or was he crying because he is a mess now?

Posted by: Tears | May 24, 2007 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Anyone have thoughts on Mikhail's comment to Ben that he thought the two women in the Looking Glass were "on assignment in Canada"?

Posted by: rnm | May 24, 2007 1:20 PM | Report abuse

In Season I, Claire's baby was very significant. That part of the story has been nearly dropped it seems, in favor of _every_ baby being significant. Is Claire's baby going to turn out to be someone special?

Posted by: m.a.t. | May 24, 2007 1:25 PM | Report abuse

There's something that hits me about the show (and the rampant speculation that surrounds it) false assumptions and jumping to conclusions.

Desmond assumed that Penny was on the boat.
Jack assumes that he's doing the right thing (always).

That seems to lead them down wrong paths.

As far as the 'game' changing. We're now past the halfway point, we're closer to the end than the begning.....so flashbacks become flashforwards.

Posted by: Kim | May 24, 2007 1:26 PM | Report abuse

My husband and I scrutinized the screenshot of the newspaper clipping for a few minutes last night. The headline says something like "Man found -------- downtown loft"


From what we could make out and concur with what others posted on the lost easter eggs site, the article continues:

The body of J------ ---------ham of New York was found shortly after 4 a.m. in the ----- of Grand Avenue.

In the next graph, something about The Tower and a beam?

That was all we could decipher but could we really expect them to clearly show the full article? That wouldn't be any fun, now would it?

I think it could be either Locke or Ben in the coffin (which I do think is a regular sized coffin, in one screenshot from above with Jack placing his hand on it, it looks like Jack could fit into it as well).

Michael could be an option and he is from New York.

I just don't know but it is very intriguing.

About Walt: Yes, it also bothered me that he appeared so much older. Obviously, in real life the actor has aged over the past couple of years but too quickly for the time that has lapsed on the island. Surely the pridcuers realize this so I would not be surprised that they work that into the story as well.

Kate was very made up at the end. I wondered if "He" was Sawyer as well. Still stumped on the whole fugitive thing but maybe we'll get some answers eventually.

Hurley was awesome! I also loved the bodies-flying-through the air explosions for some reason.

I, too, will miss Charlie, though he had his irritating moments he never bothered me enough to want to see him go. I think he probably realized he could have escaped but was holding onto the hope that Desmond's vision was correct and his death would help save Claire and Aaron. He had to take the chance.

All in all... I was very pleased with the finale and anxiously awaiting Jan. '08!

Posted by: clipping | May 24, 2007 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Bits and pieces from the screencap of the obit that Jack was holding...

"Los Angeles
Man found d[ead in]
Downtown loft

The body of J[o]____ [L]antham of New York was _____ shortly after 4 a.m. in the ______ block of Grand Avenue.

The _________ a [door]man at The T____ ____ ____ ____ loud noises ____ ______'s loft, nota_____ ____________ly _he Coney _____ ____ ____-recovered _____ tten____ the ____ a beam in the ______ _____.
_____ room _____ ______________ cond________"

Not very conclusive.

Posted by: CheekyMonkey | May 24, 2007 1:27 PM | Report abuse

dur, Producers, not pridcuers.... sorry!

Posted by: clipping | May 24, 2007 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I was intrigued by the Juliet/Sawyer dialogue before they got to the beach. He asked why she was going back and she said "karma. why are you going?" and he didn't have an answer. but now i wonder more about his karmic debt and whether or not he was supposed to kill somebody else and what that means for his character. granted i thought that charlie killing ethan would doom him as well and it didn't. he still got to be a hero in the end.

Posted by: rb | May 24, 2007 1:33 PM | Report abuse

re: Section 506 - The question has never been "will (can) they get off island?" so much as "will (can) the LOST be FOUND?" I esp like the double-entendre of 'will' in view of the fate vs free-will them of the show.

Hopefully they'll post my theory (submitted to the 3 pm chat) on the desire to be rescued is a fantasy about giving up responsiblity for one's life. So by being rescued from the island, Jack rejects self-determination and remains lost after all.

Posted by: Metaphor | May 24, 2007 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I was intrigued by the Juliet/Sawyer dialogue before they got to the beach. He asked why she was going back and she said "karma. why are you going?" and he didn't have an answer. but now i wonder more about his karmic debt and whether or not he was supposed to kill somebody else and what that means for his character. granted i thought that charlie killing ethan would doom him as well and it didn't. he still got to be a hero in the end.

Posted by: rb | May 24, 2007 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Kate was driving a Volvo when she met Jack at the airport. Somehow, this makes me think that she did not end up with Sawyer...

Posted by: Agfras | May 24, 2007 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Michael was a Construction Contractor right? Maybe he was hit in the head with a beam and died?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 24, 2007 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Couple of notes:

1) Jin all the sudden speaks all this english?
2) Who else was annoyed when Tom announces that he "shot the sand 3 times" instead of shooting the prisoners?
3) Anyone notice on Kate's voicemail when Jack kept calling her phone, the number was a 305 or 315 area code? That's not LA.
4) Jack was definitely greying in his bearded stubble. But in the flash-forward, he's all dark and lovely.
5) In the coffin - my money's on Ben. Although the parlour area was a little shady.
6) McPatchy just doesn't die....
7) Penny just HAPPENS to be sending a signal out when Charlie is there?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 24, 2007 1:38 PM | Report abuse

I counted 14 deaths:
7 gun-toting Others in the initial attack
3 more Others in Hurley's van-page
2 female Others in the Looking Glass station
1 Naomi
1 Charlie

That's certainly more than the 5 that was rumored before the finale.
Does this mean that the balance of power will swing in the Lostties favor in Season 4?

Posted by: body count | May 24, 2007 1:39 PM | Report abuse

When did Naomi die? I must have missed something??

Posted by: what? | May 24, 2007 1:42 PM | Report abuse

but was Naomi really dead? All we know is she got a knife in the back (symbolic in some way?) and from other "deaths" on Lost I don't know if this is conclusive evidence.

Posted by: Catherine | May 24, 2007 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Call me a simpleton, but I think the whole plotline is fairly linear. I agree with a few posters that the whole rid in the space/time continuum would get too crazy for the viewership. Last night we found out some folks got off the island. That's the only thing we do know. Jack clearly can't handle it...either for something he did or didn't do in the time between calling for help and getting rescued. Kate, on the surface, looks to be handling things much better but still is troubled by the events.

The next year will likely be much like the storylines on "The Nine" (although it was only on for a few months this season) - telling back and front stories at the same time. Obviously, they've been doing this for three years so now we'll get back-back stories (pre-crash), back-stories (island), and front-stories (post-rescue).

Posted by: Castaway | May 24, 2007 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I've coined a phrase for the off-the-island scenes featuring a bearded Dr. Shepard last night: "Flash-jacks."

Posted by: Copyright | May 24, 2007 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Fellow Lost Obsessors:

The answer is obvious. They get off the island, but in order for that to happen, everything that brought them to the island has be reversed (Jack's dad isn't dead, Kate didn't kill her stepfather, Jack and Kate meeting in secret, etc). The next three seasons will be about what goes on when they get back, with flashforwards to them contemplating the virtue of them leaving the island.

One problem with my theory: Who is Kate referring to when she says, "I have to get back before he notices." A son? Her fiance? Sawyer (that wouldn't work with this theory though)?

Posted by: Julie | May 24, 2007 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Why do people keep saying that Jack's beard in the flashforward was dark? Everyone in the group I watched with commented on how he had so much grey in it. Maybe some people need better televisions. :-)

Posted by: rnm | May 24, 2007 1:48 PM | Report abuse

If Jack's father is still alive, wouldn't it be interesting (and twisted) if Kate ended up married to Jack's father?

Posted by: cb | May 24, 2007 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Copyright- You're about three years too late. TWOP has been using the term "Flash-Jack" to refer to any Jack-centric flashback since the first season. Perhaps you can work with D. Trump to trademark the phrase "you're fired".

Posted by: Raoul Duke | May 24, 2007 2:01 PM | Report abuse

1 - The island has some source of power or healing or whatever (haven't figured out EXACTLY what it is at this point)that has drawn people to it for centuries.

2 - The Others are the lineage of people who "protect" the island. They apparently can't die, don't age, etc. (or do so much differently than "mortals")

3 - Throughout time, the Others have managed to protect the island and fight off the outsiders.

4 - Darma was the most recent and best equipped attempt to study/harness the powers of the island (the Black Rock ship and the Big Foot statue worshipers being earlier groups).

5 - The Others couldn't take out Darma alone so they recruited Ben as a "believer" and had him wipe out Darma and set him as at de facto leader. But he's still mortal

6 - The Darma group who wasn't on the island had gotten enough info to know the island holds something really important. I'm banking on it being something they could use for world domination (new weapon, fountain of youth, healing, etc.). So they want the island back to exploit its powers. My money is on Penny's dad being is charge of this "new" Darma group.

7 - Desmond was "sacrificed" in the guise of a sailing race to find the island. (Missing some details here, but Hurley's girlfriend who gave Desmond the boat might have also somehow been used to lure the plane to island as well...hmmm)

8 - Penny found out about her dad's plans and has been looking for Desmond herself.

9 - Once the Oceanic flight went down and the island gave off the huge pulses of magnetic energy, Darma picked them up and sent the ship/Naomi to find them. They'd have to have the resources to stage a plane crash and recovery, but let's assume they do.

10 - Since Ben's losing his grip on keeping control, the Other's picked the best and brightest of the Losties to be the new leader. That's Locke.

Posted by: Theorist | May 24, 2007 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Kelli - Where did Moses lead his people? Out of captivity (in Egypt), through the Red Sea, thence through the desert, to the Promised Land, though he himself was denied entry to the Promised Land.

As for the tower, it could possibly represent the Tower of Babel - built by humans who cooperated with one another to reach the heavens; but the nerve of them irritated God, who struck it down and then made it impossible for the humans to communicate with one another by making them speak in many different languages.

Posted by: Jean | May 24, 2007 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Best Episode Ever!

Now, my old theory of "other-others" is revived based on what Ben said, that there are prople trying to find the island and they are on the ship and on Penny saying it was not her boat (Naomi lied). I expect season 4 to be the Lostie/Others working to fight off the other-others as they try to secure the island for themselves.

Ben said he killed 40 people to secure the island, meaning the Dharma village I presume, but Dharma had to be bigger than 40 people. The rest of Dharma is trying to find the island Ben and crew kicked them off of and hid from the outside world. And Dharma seems very fascist to me. Bad people. That makes Ben, in my mind, a good guy who uses very bad methods to achieve his aims. That is probably why the Others are ready to dump Ben.

Locke's appearance was very strange. It seemed to be an afterthought for the writers. Walt dod look old, as he is in real life.

The flash forward was interesting but I did not find it that important. I really do not care what happens after they get off the island because for me that will be the end of the show. But imagine that they were not rescued but remained and joined the Others. Jack could have been cast out while Kate is actively working for the Others and was worried about whether Jacob knew where she was. The Volvo points to the wealth Dharma related people seem to have ... though I like Acura better :^) Oh yea, and for who was in the coffin ... someone Jack thought more people should have come to see off, someone he though had earned a lot of respect but evidently had not. That is probably Desmond. A person who for their entire life had been screwing up and making enemies, just like Jack.

Posted by: Sully | May 24, 2007 2:04 PM | Report abuse

I realize why (from a plot perspective) why people feel the need to be so cryptic, but why doesn't Locke just TELL Jack why he isn't meant to get them off the island? Does Locke not know, and just taking it all based on his faith in the island?

Posted by: mizbinkley | May 24, 2007 2:05 PM | Report abuse

A couple of things...

Jack and Kate make no reference to the gender of the person in the coffin, contrary to Jen and Liz's speculation. It was just "the funeral."

McPatchy released the grenade only a second or less before it blew up, so unless he is really Rasputin, then I think he'll be pretty dead.

Regarding the flooded room, the room will fill with water. The Looking Glass station was about 40 feet underwater. At that depth, the air in the room will be exposed to a water pressure of about 30 psi. Air is compressible, so the room will flood past the window.

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 24, 2007 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Locke can't spell it out because the point is that Jack is suppose to make his OWN DECISION. Not so much about what the choice is, it's more deciding to take the leap of faith, acting on belief rather than on rational basis.

Posted by: for mizbinkley | May 24, 2007 2:13 PM | Report abuse

I'm having an exceptionally busy work day today, so unfortunately I won't be able to get through the entire analysis and myriad of responses already posted here, but I wanted to say THANKS to Liz, Jen and J for their extra long analysis today and the upcoming chat! I admit I was really disappointed initially in the episode but, at least from the first few paragraphs I have read, there is definitely more going on with the season finale than I had originally seen, so I'm beginning to see the light and all is not lost.

I haven't scrolled through all the posts, so this may be old news, but here are two points I thought of after the epidsode last night:

1 - The funeral. The scenes leading up to Jack entering the funeral parlor were made to look as though they were specifically trying to give us clues that the funeral home was in a mostly black part of LA, which makes me think that it wasn't Ben, Locke, Sawyer, etc in that coffin. Michael? Walt? I'm personally leaning towards it being someone we don't know yet.

2 - All through the series, Ben has maintained that he is the good guy and he has definitely been pleading the case recently for not allowing anyone to get off the island. So from the scenes we have seen from the "future", are we now supposed to think that Ben has been right all along because somehow he knows what happens when people leave the island and he's trying to protect them as he's said all along?

So that's my quick two cents, I'm sure most of that has already been suggested and it's killing me I don't have time for scrolling all the posts!

Posted by: Lost at Work | May 24, 2007 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Did Naomi lie? Desmond mistook his vision of a parachutist as being Penny. They find that Naomi has a photo of Des & Penny but I don't remember anyone asking Naomi about that. I recall that Naomi recognizes Des and calls him by name. Naomi also says something about not searching for Oceanic 815 but a search based on a signal (i.e., the hatch explosion?). But did Naomi ever actually mention Penny?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 24, 2007 2:19 PM | Report abuse

To answer question's question : Sawyer said he shot Tom even though he surrendered because "I didn't believe him." I didn't believe him either, Sawyer. Right on.

When Mikail said "I thought you said the Looking Glass was flooded." Ben paused a long time before he replied "I lied." I wonder if he was lying when he said he lied. Maybe he's aware of the many time loops, and knew it was flooded, or would be.

Posted by: going round and round | May 24, 2007 2:27 PM | Report abuse

if someone/the others faked/staged a plane crash off the australia shore somewhere, they won't want the survivors of the plane crash ever popping back up and saying, we aren't really dead! That would reek havoc for the ones who staged it and lied to the world, so they might be on the boat coming to make sure they are actually all dead?

Posted by: new idea | May 24, 2007 2:30 PM | Report abuse

If the name on the obit started with a J, it might be Juliette OR Jacob or even Rousseau. Are there any other Losties with names that start with J?

Posted by: Vicki Contavespi | May 24, 2007 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Timelines:

Did anyone get the sense that the purge happened rather recently, like 5 years before the 2004 crash? Ben stated, "I did something recently..." Before, I was thinking the purge was a decade ago. Also, the gun Locke found was not too rusted, and Hurley's van still ran.

Secondly, Russo - what has she been doing for 16 years! Never seen The Flame, Never seen Alex, never returned to the tower and maybe change the message. ???

The Temple- Liz and Jen -no one seems to have commented much about that reference. A temple seems like a hugh factor for the story line.

Posted by: dr | May 24, 2007 2:32 PM | Report abuse

If the name on the obit started with a J, it might be Juliette OR Jacob or even Rousseau. Are there any other Losties with names that start with J?

Posted by: Vicki Contavespi | May 24, 2007 2:33 PM | Report abuse

I think Ben paused because he needed to figure out a plan, not because his head was full of interwoven time lines.

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 24, 2007 2:34 PM | Report abuse

If the name on the obit started with a J, couldn't it be Jacob or Juliete or even Rousseau? Any other Losties with names starting with a J?

Posted by: Vicki Contavespi | May 24, 2007 2:34 PM | Report abuse

As for Mikhail's immortality - it looked to me like he was shot with a taser (two leads that seemed to fly out), not a harpoon. I kept wondering why Desmond didn't shoot him to finish him off, or cover him like he did the other bodies. It seemed obvious that he was going to wake up and do some sort of mischief.

Posted by: Lost Already | May 24, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

SO glad I stopped watching this show . . .

Posted by: Anonymous | May 24, 2007 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Every time I stick up for the intelligence of the American public I'm proven wrong. Sigh...Hopefully after Lost is cancelled next year, the producers will be able to produce a final movie or something to explain it all.

Thanks guys - it's been great. Type to you next year.

Posted by: nANCYnpdx | May 24, 2007 2:40 PM | Report abuse

dr:

I agree about the temple. that was the first mention of it that I had ever heard.

Maybe that's where the four-toed giants are...

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 24, 2007 2:42 PM | Report abuse

ENDINGS

As for Seinfeld....the last show ended with the same conversation that started the very first (pilot) episode.

A conversation between Jerry and George about the placement of the button (buttonhole). In the first episode, they were in the diner and in the last in jail with Kramer & Elaine...but the same conversation.

And that is why Jerry said "I feel like we already had this conversation..."

Just an FYI

Posted by: Sweetli30 | May 24, 2007 2:43 PM | Report abuse

question, Sawyer said the killing of Tom was for taking Walt off the boat.

Posted by: Elsie | May 24, 2007 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Loved last night's episode, but did feel totally depressed that the Losties escape from the island ends in wrecked lives (i.e. Jack). I can't believe that the end result will be so heartbreaking! But after reading the posts and the analysis, I'm feeling a bit more optimistic.

RE: the funeral and etc. The funeral parlor was definitely in a black neighborhood and that has to be of some significance. Has to be. Secondly, I am not so sure that Jack was in L.A. I grew up in SoCal and I really can't think of a bridge in the L.A. area that matches the one Jack was on. Any other CA expats out there with ideas?? Also, the hospital seemed very...old, and my husband remarked that most medicine supply rooms in hospitals have alarms or codes to enter (although I guess Jack would have had the code if he worked there). also didn't notice many (or any) palm trees. And palm trees are all over the L.A. area, 'hood, Beverly Hills and everywhere in between, even at LAX. So not sure if Jack was really in L.A. Just seemed weird to me. Also the neighborhood where the funeral was, also, didn't really seem like the L.A. area. But I could be wrong.

Overall, loved the episode, but really hope we can alter the past so as to arrive, in the end, at a happy future for Jack and the other Losties. BTW, I was totally SHOCKED by the ending myself. It was just so tragic and heartbreaking and unexpected for me. LOVE LOST!!!!

Posted by: CA Expat | May 24, 2007 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Gotta love Sayid-I hit the TIVO and watched that 2-3 times. I've always loved Sayid and I knew that they weren't killed when the guns went off. My husband laughs at me when I go nuts over Sayid!!

Posted by: leeni | May 24, 2007 2:44 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Lost is headed for cancellation. At its low point this season, it still drew in over 14 million viewers, and has been in the top 15 most watched tv shows.

How does that translate to imminent cancellation?

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 24, 2007 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Timeline again on the purge:

Agruments for a recent purge (5 years out).
1. Dharma still delivering food.
2. Ben's comments.
3. Ben lieing to the others about the outside world and preventing contact as much as possible. How long were Bonnie and Co. in the looking glass awaiting the next order? 2-3 years, maybe, 10, I doubt it, they would be teenagers. It seemd recent from McPatchy's comments that they were in Canada.
4. Perhaps when Des came to the island, then Ben went into hiding?

Other thoughts?

Posted by: dr | May 24, 2007 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Raoul,

First, what is TWOP?

Second, whatever it is, perhaps it should refer to all Dr. Shepard-centric off-island scenes that occur in the past as "Jack-backs." That will enable us to now now refer to all Dr. Shepard-centric off-island scenes that occur in the future as "flash-jacks."

Since time is apparently just a dimension like space, and therefore the past, present and future are all occurring at once, "TWOP" can easily make this change. Hopefully doing so will not kill any main characters or change the shapes of Ben's glasses.

Lastly, I realize that the fact that the past, present and future are all occuring at once undermines the distinction between "Jack-backs" and "Flash-jacks." However, I'm just tryign to make a silly joke.

What I really want to copyright is Stephen Colbert's name for the Felcity Huffman - William H. Macy couple: Filliam H. Muffman.

Posted by: Copyright | May 24, 2007 2:49 PM | Report abuse

dr

I think Rousseau screws your timeline. If she was on a research ship that crashed 16 years ago, why wouldn't she have found the Dharma-ites, and their still-functioning facilities. She didn't go ape-sh!t batty right away on the island, and I also recall she said the Others killed her colleagues.

Furthermore, she found the transmitter pretty fast, and I imagine that the Dharma-ites would not have like their radio tower commandeered by a loopy french woman for 11 years.

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 24, 2007 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps there was no actual flash-forward in this episode, but a number of flash-backs. I was thinking that maybe the actual time sequence in the show corresponded to Jack in the plane; the LA scenes, etc.; and that he was having flashbacks with regards to what happened in the island.

Posted by: HulloMatilda | May 24, 2007 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Darma kept dropping food and giving Ben & Co the info on the Losties because they needed to find the island...

WAIT...strike that. They have to know where the island is or how would they drop the food.?

Damn, now I'm all confused.

Posted by: Castaway | May 24, 2007 2:55 PM | Report abuse

HulloMatilda:

I did notice that the flashback theme came during the scenes that are being called flash-forwards, unlike the usual island scene transition-to-flashback.

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 24, 2007 2:56 PM | Report abuse

dr, good call on the temple, I just submitted a question to the chat about it.

CA Expat, there's a bridge that's in like a million movies in LA. It crosses the mighty Los Angeles River (I'm kidding about the mighty part)

Posted by: Kim | May 24, 2007 2:57 PM | Report abuse

LostieLostie, are you sure that Kate didn't say "why would I go to HIS funeral?"?

Posted by: rnm | May 24, 2007 2:59 PM | Report abuse

I think the funeral parlor name, Hoffs/Drawler, an anagram for flash forward, sets us in the future along with Sarah being pregnant.

Rousseau said she killed her team as each got the sickness. Before that, several of them had hiked to the tower. She was seven months pregnant when they arrived on the island, and she gave birth to Alex alone. It is a mystery that she never explored the entire place in all those years, but there were many dangers and she was alone and fearful.

Posted by: Elsie | May 24, 2007 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Hey, why can't Jacob be black? Maybe a survivor of the slaver ship.

Also, why is no one making a big deal about Rousseau saying she wouldn't leave the island. If there really is some significance to the difference between those who are trying to leave the island and those who are trying to stay, she has to be key. She's the only person who is working to contact help, but still wanting to stay.

Posted by: Jacob | May 24, 2007 3:00 PM | Report abuse

I have to catch up on everyting above, but I'm convinced that Ben is in the coffin (besides, who would come to his funeral? He was born on teh continent, but moved as a child, and knows no one on teh continent since both his parents are dead). Jack would probably go to the funeral b/c he seems to want to get back to the island terribly (I think, mostly, b/c he was happier on the island that with rreality on the mainland). Jack is upset b/c he needed Ben to get back (consider the scene in his apartment with all the maps on teh floor).

Also, I think that the boat is Penny's boat. it's interesting that Ben knows abotu teh group trying to find the island, but I wonder if Ben ever really knew about Desmond and that's why they're looking for hte island. Ben may see them as a threat to their society but they're really only looking for Desmond. Desmond's presence there is independent of the Others and Losties. I think that Penny will use that short transmission as a way to fuel more motivation to find the island, considering someone she doenst' know just said Desmond's name before she did!

I like that we had a future-flash-forward, but for me what gave it away was the cell phone that Jack uses (Moto KRZR -which only came out a few months ago). Which makes me question how long have they been back? I like how they have opened up the show to telling us they get back, but I don't have closure with knowing that they get back. To me, the closure is finally finding out what this island is afterall.

Posted by: EricGewiz | May 24, 2007 3:00 PM | Report abuse

LostieLostie

Her lack of whereabouts makes my point. She never went anywhere or saw anything from her comments. She had never seen the Flame station in 16 years? I think she weirded out in Cerberus territory, hiding from Smokey. She very well could have ignored, bypassed, whatever the Dharma folks. Also, the Others, Richard et 'al, were already there before Dharma and during. If they took Alex 16 years ago, then she grew up in the clan. Question remains is when Ben claimed her as his daughter...he knew about Russeau - which supports your claim. It might make more snes that Ben was incharge at T-16years and took her in/away, but maybe not. Did Russeau recognize Ben as the kidnapper? She did not claim so back in S2 when she captured him, just that he was an other.

Posted by: dr | May 24, 2007 3:00 PM | Report abuse

mm

I just watched a few scenes again this afternoon, that being one of them. Kate says "why would I go to THE funeral?"

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 24, 2007 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Where did Charlie get that rockin' pen that writes so well underwater?

And more seriously....I too was cheering when Sayid snapped that guys neck and when Sawyer blew Big Tom away. Go Sawyer, he's back! And when Jack beat the crap out of Ben.

I mean how much can a person take? Enough! let's kick some Others ass and get the hell out of here already.

On GP, I would kick Ben's manipulative butt. The minute he opens his mouth you know its lies and manipulation. He's like a svengali or something.

Are we not taking notice of the lost of faith experienced by Locke and the fact that he couldn't move his legs while lying in the pit. He was grabbing his pants leg to move his legs around. It was not until Walt showed up and restored his belief did Locke regain his faith and walk.
Faith.

I think there is more to it than makeup when it comes to Kate's freckles and lack thereof. That comment where she noted that "since when do u call me Kate?" to Sawyer was telling.

Despite the fact that there are new questions that need answering...I thought this was one of the best episodes they've done in a while.

Though, I hated the fact that Gin missed the target on his dynamite, where older Bernard asked for "holy" intervention and hit his right on...that dang FAITH again.

Posted by: Key question.... | May 24, 2007 3:02 PM | Report abuse

2 questions/observations. In the opening scene isn't Jin and Sun sitting in the row behind Jack. Also, when Jack shows up at the wake he tries to call a number and the message I believe says you've reach 305-something something. 305 is a Miami area code where Julliet lives. Maybe Jack goes from Island Hero to mainland stalker.

Posted by: Thomas | May 24, 2007 3:05 PM | Report abuse

The funniest line of the night, I thought, was from Ben, when Alex was upset and asking why he tried to brainwash Carl:

"I didn't want you to get pregnant!"

But he said it JUST like a dad.

Posted by: Preggers | May 24, 2007 3:10 PM | Report abuse

A few black faces hanging out makes a neighborhood "black" and "shady"???? Isn't this 2007...or maybe it IS 2007...

Posted by: Walt's brother | May 24, 2007 3:11 PM | Report abuse

The person in the coffin could and might very well be a character that has not yet been introduced

Posted by: nmoses | May 24, 2007 3:17 PM | Report abuse

The neighborhood WAS shady, or poor anyway - gray, cheap-looking, low rise buildings - the pine coffin, the folding chairs, the sign at the funeral home. It was shady, OK?
And was it black? Perhaps it's a stretch to assume just because everyone in the scene was black. Sorry to jump to conclusions - but all we know is what we're told.

Posted by: OH PLEASE | May 24, 2007 3:17 PM | Report abuse

If you look closely at the newspaper clipping from Jack's hand, it is in fact stated that a man was found, so this removes any possibility of Rose and Juliette. And between the references to the tower, the beam, and the idea of reliving something over and over again could relate to the Dark Tower series. History is doomed to repeat itself until it occurs perfectly, as it was meant to.

Posted by: AMANDA | May 24, 2007 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Copyright- TWOP is a website called Television Without Pity, which provides recaps of various shows, along with discussion forums. My point was mostly that the term "Flash-Jack" has been around, and I've noticed other folks here trying to post stuff as original when it's been all over the interwebs for awhile.

With regard to the area code when Jack is attempting to call Kate, I thought I heard "310"; 310 is listed as: S California: Beverly Hills, West Hollywood, West Los Angeles. I think maybe Ocham's Razor (not to be confused with Jack's RZR) might apply here.

Posted by: Raoul Duke | May 24, 2007 3:23 PM | Report abuse

LostieLostie,

Not to belabor the point, but your supposition about the water compressing the air in the room is incorrect. The air in the room is already at a higher pressure, since the air in the entire station is at a higher pressure due to the open submarine access point. It would not be compressed further. The porthole is about halfway up the room wall, so the water would fill to the top of the porthole, leaving about 4-5 feet of breathable air in the top of the room. The writers/directors simply screwed up the physics.

Posted by: Joe | May 24, 2007 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Re: Jack's "flash forwards" taking place in L.A. Where is the hospital Jack worked? He told the new Chief of Surgery that he had worked there many years. Is it in Los Angeles? If so, then the flash forwards had to take place there because the accident victims were brought there.

However, if it is not there, then Los Angeles may just be stuck in people's minds because of the dateline on the news article. Remember, Jack noticed the news article on the airplane. But he picked up the newspaper on the airplane so that is another thing to consider. I wonder if anyone has tried to capture the screenshot of when he picked up the paper on the plane. That may provide some more clues?

Also, the article talks about a MAN's death so we can assume it is a MAN's funeral BUT that does not necessarily mean that the funeral is for the person in the article. Just a thought.

I do think it is significant that the funeral home appears to be in a predominantly black neighborhood but I don't think that necessarily means the deceased is black. I am starting to lean towards the possibility it is someone we haven't yet met.

Finally, Rousseau's comment about not leaving the island. I think at one time she desperately wanted to leave but she has been there for so long, she does not see herself capable of resuming a normal life off the island.

Posted by: clipping | May 24, 2007 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Joe:

I do not think they screwed up. Charlie shuts the door, effectively isolating the room. When the porthole burst, there would be loss of air from the chamber, which, now isolated could not maintain the positive air pressure required to keep the water out of the station. The door had to be shut, otherwise the the water would have rushed in through the floor.

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 24, 2007 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Why didn't Locke shoot the radio out of Jack's hand instead of worrying about shooting Jack?

Posted by: Julie | May 24, 2007 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Julie- I was thinking the exact same thing during that scene!

Posted by: Raoul Duke | May 24, 2007 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone notice that when the Losties left the camp, they appeared to be heading counterclockwise around the island (water on their right) but in the next scene, they appeared to be hiking clockwise along the shore (water on their left)?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 24, 2007 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only person in the world who was very annoyed last night when Bernard spilled his guts to the Losties? I suppose that the writers expect us to believe that Bernard is a weak person who could not bear to see Jin shot. But telling where the group was headed put Rose in harm's way, and I just don't believe that Bernard would put Rose in harm's way. It was too convenient for the plot, and rather ruined the episode for me. Did anyone else feel the same way?

Posted by: Alnavarro8 | May 24, 2007 3:54 PM | Report abuse

I think that the neighbourhood the funeral parlour is in has nothing to do with who could likely be dead, and it's stereotypical - this show doesn't play on stereotypes. I mean, Jack's been the hero of the past few seasons, and now here he is, a complete drunkard. Who could have imagined that? You can't assume anything based on the location of the funeral parlour.

Posted by: tk | May 24, 2007 3:55 PM | Report abuse

The funeral: I don't think the neighborhood has anything to do with the color of the deceased but more with it being a funeral home in a low-income area tht would handle indigents. Whoever is being buried has been living on the street or homeless shelter and is being provided a funeral by the locality.

Did anyone recognize the funeral director? My husband and I can't figure out where we have seen him before - on the show that is.

Posted by: cmac | May 24, 2007 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Yes - why didn't Bernard lie? It was ridiculous! He is a dentist, not Rambo, sure (Sayid is Rambo!), but you make an excellent point about selling out Rose. I think the writers were lazy. If he's really supposed to be this lame, he should be buried alive with Nicki & Paolo.

Loved the look Jin gave him when he sold out, like "what a moron"

Posted by: Also Annoyed! | May 24, 2007 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only person in the world who was very annoyed last night when Bernard spilled his guts to the OTHERS (meant to say OTHERS in my previous post)? I suppose that the writers expect us to believe that Bernard is a weak person who could not bear to see Jin shot. But telling where the group was headed put Rose in harm's way, and I just don't believe that Bernard would put Rose in harm's way. It was too convenient for the plot, and rather ruined the episode for me. Did anyone else feel the same way?

Posted by: Alnavarro8 | May 24, 2007 4:02 PM | Report abuse

It was annoying about Bernard spilling his guts, but not entirely surprising. Hasn't he been presented as a fairly weak person all along?

Posted by: rnm | May 24, 2007 4:04 PM | Report abuse

I think Bernard spilling his guts, although rather annoying, needed to be done for the story because how would Ben know where to find the Losties? You know Sayid and Jin would rather risk their lives then give anything up so who else would do it? Bernard of course. If they all kept their mouth's shut then what? Tom would say to Ben I have no idea where the Losties have gone to... Tom would have to torture them all and eventually kill them and still nothing? Someone had to spill.... and the most likely candidate out of the three was Bernard.

Posted by: mb | May 24, 2007 4:19 PM | Report abuse

So what's the consensus on when the flash-forward took place? I was assuming present-day...2007-ish, just from the KRAZR. That would leave 3 years to fill in, which would be a huge departure from the almost-real-time storyline they've given us thus far.

I guess the bigger question is how long is it going to take them to get off the island? I don't think it happens quickly, and I suspect the show will end with almost as many "new" characters as "old" ones. I just hope the last seasons don't turn into Castaway, following them as they readjust to society (a la "The Nine").

Posted by: KRAZR | May 24, 2007 4:27 PM | Report abuse

OK, this is still eating me up...I think the whole Jack flash-forward was a version of the future in which Jack was offered some sort of deal to be rescued... as in, he could go, and take a long a few (would explain Kate's presence in the "rescued" future), but that he left many, many of the other Losties behind. This is why he's become a drug-addicted suicidal nutjob...and the guilt is forcing him to frantically seek a way back to island. We saw last night how quick he was to "sacrifice" Sayid, Jin, and Bernard instead of giving Ben the satellite phone.

Posted by: e | May 24, 2007 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Anon: Naomi had the picture of Desmond and Penny in her book, so that is likely why Desmond thought Penny sent Naomi.

Fangorina: Interesting, but don't you think the funeral director would have freaked, or at least assumed that Jack was the twin brother of the deceased instead of asking "family or friend", if Jack was inside the coffin?

Collins: You've probably got the idea that will keep me spinning my wheels the most until next season. Thanks for the distraction! I like the smoke entity as the serpent, and I like the idea of this being the ORIGINAL Garden of Eden, and that's why maybe murderers cannot gain the island's immortality that Alpert seems to enjoy.

Posted by: The Lost Avenger | May 24, 2007 4:40 PM | Report abuse

For the summer reading list look at All the King's Men by Robert Penn Warren. For a start, the main charcter in the book is named Jack Burden. The central theme of most of Warren's work is how to resolve the idea of free will vs determinism within our day to day actions. If you thought the novel was all about politics here's a quote from Wikipedia: "Time is another of the novel's thematic fascinations. The idea that every moment in the past contains the seeds of the future is constantly explored through the novel's non-chronological narrative"

Daddy issues also abound

Posted by: Heather | May 24, 2007 4:43 PM | Report abuse

My theory didn't make the chat, so I post it here for the record:

which ever Losties make it off the island were coerced into a Faustian bargain as part of their "rescue." They give up self-determination for an imposed destiny (main theme of show). They chose to go back - symbolically return to the ways of their past - to be rescued (fantasy of being relieved of responsiblity for your own life) - resigned, abdicating control. Whereas Locke and Roussou prefer staying on the island, seizing control, challenging the unknown and forming their own futures one choice at a time.

Probably the rescuers have power to arrange to reinsert Losties back into the timestream in a subtle way. Remember that someone was able to orchestrate a random bus "accident" for Juliette's ex- based on her throw-away comment.

One option: as far as the "real world" goes, Oceanic 815 was an uneventful flight from Sydney to Los Angeles. Therefore, the Losties would look like raving lunatics if they tried to convince people they were the only survivors of a plane crash on an uncharted island in the South Pacific.

Another option: the rescuers manage to create a plausible explanation for each returning Lostie for their three-four month absence and create the lie that each was never on Oceanic 815 in the first place. [So far, we only know of two that make it back; three if the guy in the coffin is one.]

Therefore, the Losties are not suppose to or choose not to interact b/c, as far as the world cares, they were anonymous passengers on a routine flight who went their separate ways after disembarking at LAX. In order to return to "normal," the Losties are forced to live in denial and it's easier to that if you're not confronted by the few others that share your "delusion." Could explain the funeral - one of them committed suicide because they couldn't handle it. IF it was suicide, that could've pushed a despairing Jack to a suicide attempt. Could explain why they all avoid the funeral - not because of personal dislike for the dead person but because they can't handle seeing each other. Jack is destroyed because he gave up control of his life; he searches for the island because that place allowed him the opportunity to challenge fate. While Kate is able to cope as she was a chameleon con artist in the first place and is fated to continue assuming identities (living falsely).

Ultimately, the implication of this is that they were lost (adrift in their own life) before the crash and remain lost after their return.

Posted by: Metaphor | May 24, 2007 4:43 PM | Report abuse

If Desmond's saving Charlie's life changed the past, present and future, how do we really know if Charlie is dead?

Posted by: Art Deco | May 24, 2007 4:44 PM | Report abuse

If Desmond's saving Charlie's life changed the past, present and future, how do we really know if Charlie is dead?

Posted by: Art Deco | May 24, 2007 4:44 PM | Report abuse

LostieLostie,

OK, let's go through this. Before Charlie closes the door, all the air inside the station is at the same pressure (exactly the same pressure as the water outside the station, otherwise the water would flow in through the submarine access point). Now Charlie closes the door. The pressure in the room is still at the same pressure as the rest of station (which is still the water pressure). The porthole is opened. Due to gravity and density, the lest dense material (air) escapes out and up the porthole, at least up to the top of the porthole. At this point, the volume of the air in the room has decreased due to the air below the porthole escaping, not due to compression. Therefore the air above the porthole, the air in the rest of the station, and the water are still at the same pressure. The air leaving the room would stop at the top of the porthole.

Think of is this way. In order for compression to occur, there has to be more pressure on the air after the porthole is blown than before. How would this happen? The water is still at the same pressure. There is less air in the room because some has left through the porthole. The air pressure in the top of the room would equalize the water pressure from outside the station, and the water would not be able to compress the air further. Ergo, the water would stop rushing in once it reached the top of the porthole.

Bad physics.

Posted by: Joe | May 24, 2007 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Joe and LostieLostie -- Suspend your imaginations and accept that the room filled with water and Charlie died (of his own will) so that Claire and Aaron could leave the island. I don't know who's right about the physics, but even if one of you is right, what you know as "fact" may not be applicable on the island (or off-shore) anyway right? I think the story is more about their personal struggles than about the physics of rising water.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 24, 2007 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Here's a thought. What if Charlie did die, as Des envisioned, but he was brought back to life by Des? He could've been grabbed thru the porthole after Des put on the scuba gear, and then taken back into the unflooded section of Looking Glass. Des does CPR and pumps the water out of Charlie's lungs, Charlie coughs and..ta-da! The prophesy came true with Charlie's drowning, but we still get to keep the little munchkin! It's a win-win for everyone. Unless, of course, he's tired of being on the show or the writers are tired of writing for him. We'll see next season (Feb '08? Argh!).

Posted by: Another Charlie | May 24, 2007 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Dominic Monoghan gave an interview about his farewell party on the set of Lost so I think we can assume that Desmond isn't going to revive Charlie.

Posted by: rnm | May 24, 2007 4:55 PM | Report abuse

i wonder what would have happened if jack jumped off the bridge? would he have actually died or would something in the time loop prevent it?

Posted by: l | May 24, 2007 5:08 PM | Report abuse

The flashforward brought the series dangerously close to shark territory. Three years of character development are all for naught as Jack ends up a lonely, depressed, drug addicted loser following his footsteps. And he doesn't even get the girl in the end. What a major letdown! After that incredibly depressing ending, I realized that I never really wanted to know what happened to them off the island; I would have been perfectly happy with series ending immediately after they leave the island.

The flashforward also killed the idea that the island is a "blank slate" or a tabula rusa that gave the characters another chance at redemption. Another chance at fixing their tragic flaws. This has been a theme since season 1. And once again, it's all for naught, as we see the main hero a complete mess post-island, still trying to desperately fix stuff as if he learned absolutely nothing from his time on the island. What is the point of another 48 more episodes of character development if it has already been revealed that the characters don't actually "develop" in any sort of useful form?

It also killed one of the major mysteries of the show--will they leave the island? Why would they reveal such knowledge when the series is halfway over? Especially when we know that they end up miserable in the end? Suddenly, I find that I have little reason to know or care what happens to them next.

The writer's backed themselves into a corner with this one.

Posted by: Tirade | May 24, 2007 5:08 PM | Report abuse

As I was watching the show on itunes- I thought to myself...(knowing there are a couple of seasons left) they have to talk about the rescue, how all the "losties" are coping with being back (a la that tom hanks movie), and how they are all related- My thought is next season they open with the whole it's not penny's boat- while that is being figured out they answer some questions (the temple - 4 toe idols- jacob- black smoke- fighting off the others or the other's joining them since they feel betrayed by ben and that the losties are stronger than ben-locke- etc (although my guess is Locke isn't coming back with them...)). Then the second half is them being rescued and flash forwards- how are all of them coping with their return back to normal life- which is what Ben was alluding to- and the last season- somehow we find out how they were all realted- what was the connection between them all and why the plane crashed and the cover up while they were on the island (what Naiomi was talking about). at least that's my theory on a couple of beers and lack of sleep-

polariss

Posted by: polariss | May 24, 2007 5:08 PM | Report abuse

wait wait- unless this is one of Desmond's flashes- where he's telling Jack- hey let's not do this- 'cause this is how you'll end up- (since it's not Penny's boat...)

Posted by: polariss | May 24, 2007 5:10 PM | Report abuse

I've got no problem suspending disbelief, otherwise the whole show goes out the window (starting with he very first show, since nobody survives that crash in real life). And I said earlier that Charlie chose to die, since that is what Desmond's vision called for, and he didn't want to mess it up. I just pointed out a production error and backed up the physics as to why this was an error.

Posted by: Joe | May 24, 2007 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Sweetli at 2:43p, you just verified my original (and the majority of the pubilc's) reaction to the final episode and something "Lost" should not repeat.

WTF?

Posted by: rickNmd | May 24, 2007 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Now that Karma is a signifcant point, when does Earl show up?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 24, 2007 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Of all the interesting hypotheses and way-out-there theories and the pseudo-hyper-intellectual nuances, there are still two references that have not been mentioned:

In "Castaway," Tom Hanks leaves the island. For three years it was his whole mission. Rescue. But once he gets back and delievers that package, he's left a crossroads. Literally. What now?

In a sense, that's what's happening to Jack. Now that he's back and no longer keeper of the people, what now? He feels a need too return to the island, make things right or change history.

Which segues into one of the dumbest and wildest references, but could it have some relevance?

In "Return to Gilligan's Island," the members of the Minnow celebrate the anniversary of their rescue with a cruise on the Minnow II and end up back on the island.

Turns out, the island is their fate.

Could that happen here? The island is simply Jack's fate.

Posted by: rickNmd | May 24, 2007 6:00 PM | Report abuse

In the final episode of Lost, Jack and Kate will celebrate their wedding, presided over by Sawyer, in his new priest collar after finding redemption. Pretty pretty bows will be wrapped around everyone's life, and they will skip off into the sunset, like on the OC!!

There - is that better?

Posted by: NancyNPDX | May 24, 2007 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Now this I can totally get behind - the Gilligan connection. Sayid is obviously the Professor - always messing with the radios. Kate is Ginger - she wants all the boys to love her. Rose & Bernard = Mr & Mrs Howell. With Charlie gone, I guess Hurley will have to be good-hearted Gilligan.

Posted by: Nancy2 | May 24, 2007 6:08 PM | Report abuse


Hmmmmm ???

Posted by: UNIVERSAPLAYER | May 24, 2007 6:15 PM | Report abuse


Hmmmmm ???

Posted by: UNIVERSALPLAYER | May 24, 2007 6:16 PM | Report abuse

I'm betting it's Juliet in the coffin. Who else would get Jack so upset by dying?

Posted by: cs | May 24, 2007 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Jack as Moses: Moses cannot enter the Promised Land (post-Island life?) but can only observe it from a high point (the 6th Ave Bridge?) while another leader (Sawyer? Sayid?) bring the tribes into the land of Milk & Honey (California?).

The map of the stations in the Hatch: reminiscent of the sfirot (spheres/worlds/stations)of the Kabbalah, point of spiritual knowledge.

That's my contribution.

Posted by: Stus | May 24, 2007 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Seasons 2 and 3 both start off with us getting a better idea of who some mysterious character or characters are from the preceding season finale. Season 1 ends with us wondering who's in the hatch -- and Season 2 starts with us finding out it's Desmond, along with his initial reaction to Locke banging on the Hatch. Season 2 ends with us wondering who the Others are -- and Season 3 starts with us getting a big glimpse into their community and their initial response to the Oceanic 815 crash. Season 3 ends with us wondering who's on the freighter, and my guess is that Season 4 starts with that answer, as well as a bit of their backstory.

Posted by: In Oklahoma | May 24, 2007 8:16 PM | Report abuse

There's no way the producers would all of a sudden make the castaways' time on the Island the past and these "flash-forwards" the present. If they did, the first three seasons would be a wash -- what's the point, if they all end up miserable anyway?

Rather, the "game change" is that, before, the goal was to get off the Island. Now, the game is that the Island is really the place that many (if not all) of the castaways belong. It's where they've found redemption and escaped the tribulations that haunted them back in the regular world. They have to be made to realize this so they won't leave.

So that means the Island isn't the "hell" that so many people speculated it was in the first two seasons. Instead, it's a kind of "heaven" or Garden of Eden (I really like that theory, with "Adam and Eve" in the cave) -- and people like Jacob, the Others and the DHARMA folks were just trying to protect their little slices of it.

The trick is that it appears the castaways will only be able to avoid their miserable fate off the Island if they can be -- before they get on that freighter -- convinced that such a said future awaits them if they leave.

Locke holds part of the key to that puzzle -- he's convinced that they're not supposed to leave, and he's trying to prevent it. And I like the theory that he doesn't realize Jack and other castaways have misery awaiting them back "home." It's all just faith for Locke.

I think Desmond holds the other part of the key. I haven't been able to figure out all of Season 3 why he needs these time-travel and precognitive abilities -- but now that there's a miserable future to avoid, such abilities would come in very handy.

So I'm guessing Desmond will start seeing these flash-forwards himself, and he'll be presented with another catch-22: help the castaways keep the redemption they've found on the Island and possibly never see Penny again, or hang 'em all out to dry.

Probably gonna need some help from Jacob and Walt to make it all happen.

Either that, or the Freighter just takes Claire and Aaron (like in Desmond's vision) and leaves the rest of them there.

Posted by: In Oklahoma | May 24, 2007 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Great episode. Great show. See ya'll next year!

Posted by: SEARCH:LOSER | May 24, 2007 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Ok, the water pressure thing. You can prove it to yourself. Empty a beer bottle (you can use any bottle but emptying a beer bottle, properly, is more fun). Now, fill up your sink with water. Hold the beer bottle sideways and lower it into the water a few inches. The water at that level is close enough to air pressure (equal pressure). Now, you'll see air escaping but since the pressure of the water and air are about the same, the water will stop filling up when it reaches the top of the bottle opening leaving air in the top of the bottle. Don't they teach physics in Directing 101? Considering we are supposed to also believe so many people survived a plane crash from thousands of feet high, I guess not.

I will happily review any future plots of Lost for physical accuracy. I'll take payment in beer for the experimental beer bottles I'll need and will happily empty :^)

As for how the next season starts, I see Des getting out of the Looking Glass and finding Jack and the rest of the Losties celebrating while Ben continues to warn them the bad people are on the boat. Des will tell them its not Penny's boat. Cue suspense music. Jack will think ... maybe we should be careful when they arrive. And when they arrive bad guys storm the beach. The Losties and Others will eventually join forces but not after a season of trying to not just figure out what the Other's secret is, but now what these new people's secret is. Maybe that's why they killed off so many people during the finale, they needed the funds to pay for the new actors coming on the boat!

And what about Penny? Where is she? Sitting in a room with a video phone? Just sitting there waiting to talk when someone answered? That was a little hard to swallow, even for Lost. Why isn't Penny closing in on the Island if she had a coordinate weeks ago? That was the most disappointing part of the finale. But it gives a clue to who is one the boat ... Penny's dad. A perfect bad guy who also got the coordinates from the two guys in the snow.

As for Jack/Kate in the future, it seems Jack was rescued. He's got the "golden ticket" which allows him to fly anywhere, meaning he was probably greeted like a hero. Kate however seemed very mellow, suspicious and a lot like the Others, which I think she becomes. She is an Other protecting the island with Richard and whoever the Others comprise then. That is why no one is arresting her. Jack gets what he wants and is back at home but cannot stand it. Ben was right. Jack was nothing before he came to the island and once off the island is nothing again.

I've been thinking more about the coffin.
It had to be someone Jack liked but no one else did. I'm guessing Michael. He left them after all and probably was rescued but never told anyone about the Losties. He also killed Libby and Ana Lucia.

The death is also worth noting. An accident. Isn't that how a lot of the Lostie's parents start dying days before the Lostie's flight? If so I'm thinking maybe things are repeating. If the Losties got there through manipulations by someone which included killing parents, etc, then maybe in this future flash, its happening again. And that plane that took off above Jack was carrying another group of new Losties to the island, with Walt on board. So what you saw might have been the last scene of the whole series.

Posted by: Fate | May 24, 2007 9:07 PM | Report abuse

With all the speculations about alternate dimensions, wrinkles in time and time-space continuums seems, I think a lot of people are really overthinking things. Yeah, all those ideas are cool, but they're pretty far-fetched for a prime-time drama on ABC. Is this the best television show ever? Absolutely. But if the show ended up just being soap opera about quantum leaps, total recalls and theories of relativity, I think most people would likely begin to riot in the streets.

Posted by: In Oklahoma | May 24, 2007 9:10 PM | Report abuse

In the spirit of each season of the show having an entirely different theme (first season = stranded on an island; second season = hatch, third season = lives of others), here is what will likely go down in the three remaining seasons.

Season 4: Losties are relieved to escape. At some point they realize their rescuers are the bad guys and try to escape whatever world they are kept in... it will not be filmed on the island.

Season 5: All about reuniting with Penny and the good rescuers.

Season 6: They realize Penny's company is not all that good, are put back into real life... only messed up.

The screenwriters will never answer questions... they never do. Things that are important, or questions that are raised, don't get answered. The producers simply shift our focus.

What are polar bears doing on an island? Wait, you want an answer? Let us show you a hatch and mysterious numbers? Not good enough, here's a society where pregnant women die. Want more? Here's a rescue.

It kind of makes me think there's nothing at the heart and no answer that we'll get.

Posted by: Lizzy | May 24, 2007 9:37 PM | Report abuse

What was it that Sawyer said to Tom in a previous season? Something to the effect that, "You and me ain't done, Zeke."

Posted by: jack shephard, hero | May 24, 2007 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Oklahoma, total agree. See my post at 12:49p

Posted by: rickNmd | May 24, 2007 11:10 PM | Report abuse

Lizzy
Glad someone else mentioned pregnant women dying. How can the island be the gardenof eden if pregnant women die there?

Love this show.

Posted by: Jazzman | May 25, 2007 12:16 AM | Report abuse

Lizzy
Glad someone else mentioned pregnant women dying. How can the island be the garden of eden if pregnant women die there?

Love this show.

Posted by: Jazzman | May 25, 2007 12:17 AM | Report abuse

Lizzy
Glad someone else mentioned pregnant women dying. How can the island be the garden of eden if pregnant women die there?

Love this show.

Posted by: Jazzman | May 25, 2007 12:17 AM | Report abuse

I think the flash forward might be bogus. If you noticed it was Sun and Jin sitting behind Jack on the plane at the beginning of the episode. Why would they be on the same plane but not together? I think it plays into the alternate universe theory, a possible future.

Posted by: kevin | May 25, 2007 12:51 AM | Report abuse

I think the flash forward might be bogus. If you noticed it was Sun and Jin sitting behind Jack on the plane at the beginning of the episode. Why would they be on the same plane but not together? I think it plays into the alternate universe theory, a possible future.

Posted by: kevin | May 25, 2007 12:51 AM | Report abuse

I know I'm late, but still...
jack said "forgive me", before he was getting ready to jump off the bridge.. I would speculate that losties are dying (alone)one by one after being rescued... jack thinks it's his fault, since he didn't stop and answered the phone, even though Locke was warning him..

Posted by: oceana | May 25, 2007 1:13 AM | Report abuse

I loved the episode although was bummed out by Jack's pathetic state in the flash-forward.

IMO, Hurley's heroics -- a surprise attack with an unarmed VW van -- was a great crowd-pleaser (we all love it when the goofy underdog becomes the hero, it's a common Hollywood scenario) ... but really, just what about an approaching VW van (which surely would be audible as it approached) would cause the hardened armed Others to react like a squirrel in a car headlights while Hurley's van mowed 'em down? Why didn't they just shoot at the van, possibly killing Hurley through the windshield, or blowing out its tires, or whatever, so that it veered off-course and rolled over instead of charging right into the Others?

Posted by: sjh | May 25, 2007 1:32 AM | Report abuse

To those wondering why Locke did not shoot Jack or the phone:

Remember before Locke walked away he said that the events were not supposed to go that way. Locke was most likely under the belief (through his conversation with Walt? premonition?) that he would never have to shoot and that only the threat of the gun would make Jack stop from completing the call. Once that proved in error, there was no clear path to proceed in.

Posted by: Quick lost point | May 25, 2007 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Seems to me that Oklahoma (8:16 pm and 8:38 pm) has pretty much nailed it. well done. A couple of things re. Locke and Jack:

Remember the Locke flashback to his time on the commune? He was unable to pull the trigger on his friend -- the undercover cop -- who threatened that little Eden. Yeah, Locke was able to put a knife in Naomi's back -- but he didn't know her personally and may have had reason to believe she was "evil." And Jack is a friend.

Jack has been a frustrating character but I think this episode was the payoff.
Both in the island and in flashbacks he has weakened at critical moments -- confronting but not resolving father issues, the Others outbluffing him in the jungle, going to the brink with the other woman and losing both her and his wife. This time, he was in two standoffs where he could have blinked -- with good reason, and I know I expected him to -- but he did not.

So at a couple of crucial moments, we have Locke weakening and Jack finding his resolve. At that moment, in island time, Jack appears to have made the right call. But the flash-forward tells us otherwise. I think Okie has a good guess as to why.

Looking forward to next season.

Posted by: sota | May 25, 2007 10:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't think we have to assume that they "all end up miserable." Jack certainly is miserable in the flash-forward, but Kate didn't seem to be doing too bad -- other than wanting to get away from Jack. Other than Kate, we didn't see any of the other Losties in the future so we have no idea what became of them. Why assume the worst?

I also am not yet convinced that this show has anything to do with a time-loop. It's certainly possible, but it's also possible that we've all gotten so caught up in trying figure out the mystery of the island that our imaginations are getting the best of us. I agree with an earlier poster that in the end we may see that everything on the island, while weird, may be moving in a linear fashion.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 25, 2007 10:25 AM | Report abuse

sjh - Price shot at the van repeatedly.

Posted by: mafafu | May 25, 2007 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Earlier post disappointed that Jin's shooting didn't work; unlike the other 2, he had a pistol, which has less accuracy at a distance, plus, the pistol was the one that Karl brought, which Alex got from Ben, which had been used to shoot Locke, and which was also offered to Locke to shoot Cooper. Maybe it had rubber bullets or some kind of ammunition less than lethal, since apparently Ben was testing Locke, and Locke also survived the shooting.
Re: the funeral home. A viewing without some kind of service is reallly odd. Usually the "viewing" is for the benefit of the family/survivors, so that the visitors can visit them and provide comfort. Who would have even arranged for a viewing if there were no survivors or mourners? Unless the decedent left such instructions in his/her will.

Posted by: Lindytx | May 25, 2007 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Earlier post disappointed that Jin's shooting didn't work; unlike the other 2, he had a pistol, which has less accuracy at a distance, plus, the pistol was the one that Karl brought, which Alex got from Ben, which had been used to shoot Locke, and which was also offered to Locke to shoot Cooper. Maybe it had rubber bullets or some kind of ammunition less than lethal, since apparently Ben was testing Locke, and Locke also survived the shooting.
Re: the funeral home. A viewing without some kind of service is reallly odd. Usually the "viewing" is for the benefit of the family/survivors, so that the visitors can visit them and provide comfort. Who would have even arranged for a viewing if there were no survivors or mourners? Unless the decedent left such instructions in his/her will.

Posted by: Lindytx | May 25, 2007 11:27 AM | Report abuse

When Jack, our chief protagonist beginning in the show's very first moments, is miserable off the Island (in the flash-forward), then so are we. I'll be honest, I ached for him at the end of the Season 3 finale, as I was supposed to.

I don't think the end of the series will be completely rosy -- in fact, I'll bet that Jack dies at the end in some last heroic act to somehow save everyone else from whatever it is they end up needing to be saved from (or maybe it'll be Sawyer, or maybe Locke, or maybe Juliet, but not Kate or Desmond). But I don't think it will all end with Jack being miserable back in L.A. That would be beyond cruel, not only to our hero, but also to the loyal fans of the show. Jack has his moments where we get really fed up with his behavior, but so does any good hero in this day and age of storytelling. It's what makes heroes interesting.

Posted by: In Oklahoma | May 25, 2007 11:36 AM | Report abuse

And Ben wasn't testing Locke when he shot him in the gut -- he was rubbin' out the competition!

Posted by: In Oklahoma | May 25, 2007 11:43 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe that so many people are rejecting the time travel related theories. If you will recall, Desmond has encountered two people in his past (Old Lady and Monk) who obviously know specific things about the future and are manipulating things to acheive a certain result.

Also, I haven't seen any mention of two lines that I thought were the most important of the episode. (Not exact quotes, but as well as I can remember).

1. One of the women in the Looking Glass says to Mikhail that once they stop following orders that the whole thing will fall apart. - What I get from this is that there is a group effort to try to change the past in a way that acheives a particular outcome in the future (like the Lost Experience intimates). If this is the case, there would have to be a very rigid structure for each person involved, otherwise the desired outcome would be incorrect.

2. At the end of the flash-forward Jack told Kate that He is "sick of lying". - What does he have to lie about? Are the people that kicked him off the island making him lie? Is there some sort of time paradox (i.e. his dad being alive) that would be impossible to explain to "normal" people?

Just thought these points were being passed over by the majority of people while I found them quite important.

Posted by: dopeweblow | May 25, 2007 12:11 PM | Report abuse

"I think the flash forward might be bogus. If you noticed it was Sun and Jin sitting behind Jack on the plane at the beginning of the episode. Why would they be on the same plane but not together? I think it plays into the alternate universe theory, a possible future."

When I watched the first time, I would have sworn it was Sun and Jin. But I checked it again last night and it wasn't. It was a fakeout to throw us at the start of the episode -- they cast two people who look a lot like Sun and Jin, at first glance, and they didn't show them much -- so it made me think we were seeing an alternate reality (same flight and cast of characters in a different dimension), and it took a while to realize it was a flash-forward.

Posted by: jane | May 25, 2007 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Read all of the above - great stuff, and I'll miss the show!

No one noted yet the one thing I thought most significant - Jack and Kate getting ready to leave the beach look at each other, just like in last week's episode, same camera shots, etc. But she doesn't say "Here we go again." It's a continuous scene, no cuts. And she doesn't say it this time. Still questioning the time loop theory?

Posted by: verylate post | May 25, 2007 1:07 PM | Report abuse

RE: Hand grenades and water pressure

Ok, I just watched that scene again. My personal gripe initially was that with the porthole blown, the entire station would have lost integrity and it would have been nearly impossible for Charlie to close the water tight door. If the door to the room was open, then the water from below would also have rushed into the submarine chamber with the loss of integrity.

But he did close it before the blast. Ok. So that means we are dealing only with the water and air in the radio room. But it was an explosion outside a highly pressurized environment. I don't think the equilibrium between the air and the water would be met at the level of the window. The water is available in limitless supply, but any air lost from the room is presumably lost without any replacement source. I never meant to imply that the room would be devoid of air, only that it would likely flood past the porthole, as the flooding was the consequence of a violent reaction, not a gradual equilibrating process.

Lastly, though, when Charlie is floating in the water, there appears to be daylight filtering down from above over his body. This would suggest that the grenade blew more than the porthole glass, allowing the air to escape through other outlets.

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 25, 2007 1:50 PM | Report abuse

---I can't believe that so many people are rejecting the time travel related theories. If you will recall, Desmond has encountered two people in his past (Old Lady and Monk) who obviously know specific things about the future and are manipulating things to acheive a certain result.---

I'm rejecting it because:
1) The writers have said that the Losties are living in reality (not purgetory or other spiritual place) and they also said it is in our existing space time.
2) The Old lady "flashback" happened while Desmond was unconscious from the hatch implosion/failsafe. I saw it not as a flashback but as a dream that helped him put some pieces together. In orher words, it was just a dream.
3) I'm not sure what you meant by the Monk knowing the future. Most religious people tend to talk like they know where you are heading.

Posted by: Fate | May 25, 2007 2:17 PM | Report abuse

The monk had a picture of himself and the old lady on his desk when Desmond left his robe there.

And BTW, for those that think Seinfeld finale was bogus, you don't understand. The group finally got what they deserved. That was the point.

Posted by: JC, LA | May 25, 2007 2:21 PM | Report abuse

"I'm rejecting it because:
1) The writers have said that the Losties are living in reality (not purgetory or other spiritual place) and they also said it is in our existing space time.
2) The Old lady "flashback" happened while Desmond was unconscious from the hatch implosion/failsafe. I saw it not as a flashback but as a dream that helped him put some pieces together. In orher words, it was just a dream.
3) I'm not sure what you meant by the Monk knowing the future. Most religious people tend to talk like they know where you are heading."

"Our existing space time" doesn't mean that people aren't moving (or moving memories)within that space time. Also, a time theory does not necessitate an alternate reality or spiritual world. It simply means that the existing space time is changing.

Desmond must have been having a pretty accurate "dream" since he managed to insert a real woman, whom he didn't recognize, into the dream. (she is real because she was in the photo on the Monk's desk in another of Desmond's flashbacks)

The fact that the Monk obviously knows the Old Lady (see pic reference above) makes it awfully coincidental that the Monk decided to kick Desmond out because he was "meant to do something else". Also, this just happened to fall on the day that Penny was picking up wine. These facts make it hard for me to believe that the Monk didn't know what was going on.

Posted by: dopeweblow | May 25, 2007 2:28 PM | Report abuse

LostieLostie wrote: ---So that means we are dealing only with the water and air in the radio room. But it was an explosion outside a highly pressurized environment.---

No, the pressure in the room and outside the portal are the same. Otherwise the water in the pool would have risen on its own. The pressures outside and in are equal. However air will rise in water and you are correct that with the door open the entire station would have flooded, but only up to the port hole.

---I don't think the equilibrium between the air and the water would be met at the level of the window.---

Yes it would since once the water filled up to the top of the open port hole the pressure of the air and water being equal would mean that there was no force to continue pushing the water into the room.

---The water is available in limitless supply, but any air lost from the room is presumably lost without any replacement source.---

It has nothing to do with amount of material, just pressure. Try the experiment with the beer bottle I outlined above. Its close to 5PM, crack open a beer and prove it yourself and begin the long weekend early!

---I never meant to imply that the room would be devoid of air, only that it would likely flood past the porthole, as the flooding was the consequence of a violent reaction, not a gradual equilibrating process.---

The only way would have been for the granade to have blown up inside the hatch forcing all the air out leaving a vacuum for the water to pour into. Now you say you noticed light from above the porthole meaning there could have been other holes. I'm sure the writers will grab onto that as an explanation since it seems they forgot to check with a phyisist before editing the film :^)

Posted by: Fate | May 25, 2007 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Oklahoma, et al,

I realize that in America, all tv shows are suppose to have a happy Star Wars ending with our heroes victorious. You can expect it. Lost is half way done (3 of 6 years, 72 of 120 episodes), and the writers have taken our heroes to the brink of victory - rescue. Now, it appears we will be spirialing back down with a new twist of fate. Will Jack be on top at the end? - I think he will either overcome his controlling, gotta fix it and everyone attitude, or it may cause him to despair. Wait and see.

Posted by: dr | May 25, 2007 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I love all the comments, and just had a couple of thoughts:

1) It seems to me that the body in the coffin probably is a character we'll meet next season -- I love the idea of a J. Bentham that is watching this whole experiment. That would also potentially solve what's been bothering me from the very beginning. How a plane full of people would survive that particular crash. I've always thought that it was a set-up of some kind - They didn't really crash (yes, we saw a plane go down, but we don't know that it wasn't staged).

2) I find it interesting that people generally are positioning the conflict between Ben/Locke and Jack as "faith" vs. "reason" - It could just as easily be seen as the other way around - Jack's the one who believes that salvation lies in moving from this world (the island) to another -- Is single-mindedly persuing that end, and has everyone else convinced of his plan such that people are willing to die for the cause (ex: Saint Charlie) -- Maybe that's rational, but maybe not -- Maybe it's an expression of "faith" in the other world rather than an effort to live constructively in the here and now - the world of the island. There have also been some references to the Tower of Babel, and I think this is interesting - in the outcome of that story the tribes were cast out in all directions -- become isolated from one another. A potential outcome of the group's hubris and belief that they could contact beyond the world of the island. That seems to match up with the "flash-forward" in the last ep.

3) I also wondered if in the flash forward it wasn't possible that both Jack and Kate were being consigned to the fate of their parents -- Jack being the addict and Kate being stuck in a controlling, abusive relationship. That would suck for them.

4) I wonder if Sawyer won't have some sort of conversion to the "Locke" camp next season. It seems like he's taken a leap forward in time from the rest of the group - They've all still got something to live for (getting off the island), but he's lost his goal in life - getting even with the real Sawyer. Now he's going to have to address life without meaning - Something Jack doesn't have to deal with until he's off the island.

4) Don't know if anyone's googled Richard Alpert (probably someone has), but according to Wikipedia he's a spiritual teacher who wrote a best seller "Be Here Now" and met another teacher in India known as "Anagorika Dharma Sara" (who has listed an interview titled "Down the Rabbit Hole") -- Alpert also founded several spiritual foundations including one called the Hanuman Foundation... All seems a little Dharma-ish...

5) Wondering if there's something about Rousseau we don't know... Some of the questions in this thread make me wonder if she's not working for J. Bentham (or something)


Posted by: Just Wondering.... | May 25, 2007 4:13 PM | Report abuse

The flash-forward Jack sequence was largely reminiscent of the Rafael Yglesias novel / Peter Weir film "Fearless" where Jeff Bridges survives a plane crash and faces the effects of PTSD including an ill-fated romance. Another Lost parallel to a Peter Weir film includes his 1975 "Picnic at Hanging Rock" where school kids on a trip to Ayers Rock experience supernatural events (or do they).

Posted by: Summer Syallabus | May 25, 2007 4:17 PM | Report abuse

The flash-forward Jack sequence was largely reminiscent of the Rafael Yglesias novel / Peter Weir film "Fearless" where Jeff Bridges survives a plane crash and faces the effects of PTSD including an ill-fated romance. Another Lost parallel to a Peter Weir film includes his 1975 "Picnic at Hanging Rock" where school kids on a trip to Ayers Rock experience supernatural events (or do they).

Posted by: Summer Syallabus | May 25, 2007 4:17 PM | Report abuse

It seems like there are quite a few repetitions of space-time in this discussion thread.

Posted by: MW | May 25, 2007 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Is anyone still reading this? Anyway, two theories:

1. Lost is the current Mystery Science Theater 3000. In MST3K, a lot of the jokes were references to commercials, TV shows, movies, and popular culture. It was a sort of shorthand to get to a punch line. In Lost, the references to literature, movies, philosophers, and (yes) popular culture are again a sort of shorthand, but this time to get to drama. I think there's no further depth to it than that.

2. The question is not who is in the coffin, but why did their death put Jack into a suicidal depression. It has to be Jacob. With Jacob dead, there's no way for Jack to get back to the island, or, if he did get back to the island, it wouldn't be the same without Jacob. Jack can never return to the island as it was, so there's no reason to continue living.

Posted by: MARs | May 25, 2007 7:31 PM | Report abuse

I just got done reading all the comments for the season finale. Since we just moved from Hawaii, we are connected to Lost because we've been to many of the locations. My daughter's orthodontist building was Anna Lucia's police office; the kids went to camp on the beach next to where Lost is filmed, and stayed at the cabins where the Others had their camp (the interiors were much better for the others). That being said, my kids totally recognized the street where the funeral home was; and no, Honolulu does not have a "black section." Outside of Waikiki, most of the buildings are small and single-board construction. The area code Jack was calling was 310, I recognized it because my mother-in-law lives in the LA area and has the same area code. More than likely, the bridge and hospital were all filmed on Oahu. Living there, the local papers always write about how local places are used and changed to look like other areas. Not sure if anyone reads this, just thought I'd post it.

Posted by: SLN | May 25, 2007 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone think that when Ben referred to killing 40 people that he was referring to the Losties and bringing their plane to the island?

Posted by: 2hrLunch | May 26, 2007 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone think that when Ben talks about killing 40 people he was referring to the Losties, bringing their plane to the island, and 'killing' them in the real world? I think that Ben has the power to do all these things.

Posted by: 2hrLunch | May 26, 2007 4:45 PM | Report abuse

---Did anyone think that when Ben referred to killing 40 people that he was referring to the Losties and bringing their plane to the island?---

No. I thought he was referring to the Dharma people he killed. I believe that in Ben's mind the island is everything and Jacob is its soul, so anything is allowed to protect them. Killing the 40 Dharma people Locke is laying on in the pit is ok with Ben because the island is that important. I think the plane was a total surprise to Ben. That's why I think there are others, other-others, who Ben and company kicked off the island when they killed the 40 Dharma people. And they sent the plane to the island, somehow. I think the Losties were sent there to retake the island, or help retake the island. The current events on the island are that Ben has been beaten by the Losties and the Losties are removing the radio interference so the island can be found. Just what someone wanted, someone who wants to have the island for themselves. Ben is the good guy. He's just really bad at being the good guy. He has an ends justify the means mentality. Locke will change that when he replaces Ben as the leader of the Others. But ... I've been wrong before ... Anyway, look for the Losties to have to choose between the people on the boat and their offers of rescue, and the Others who want to protect the island from the people on the boat. I expect Jack to take the offer and Kate to join the Others. I'm ready for Season 4!

Posted by: Sully | May 26, 2007 8:19 PM | Report abuse


How did Rousseau survive her pregnancy?

Posted by: LostInThought | May 27, 2007 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Has anybody thought that the flash forward it may be that Jack and Kate are being forced to work for the 'Others' - its always implied that the Ben had people working for him in the real world.

That would explain why jack is depressed, why it seems that Kates not meant to make contact with him. Just another thought to add to the afray!!

Posted by: Matt W | May 28, 2007 7:58 PM | Report abuse

I think Just Wondering... and MARs comments are the most interesting on here.

And does it seem to anyone else that with this new plot twist (the flash-forward), "Lost" is starting to become reminiscent of "Memento" -- the glimpses at the past, now paired with glimpses of the (supposed) future, perhaps all leading to one defining moment or series of events in the middle?

Even some of the shots in the Season 3 finale reminded me of "Memento" -- particularly the one of Jack sitting against the wall in his home in the flash-forward, with all the maps strewn everywhere. I'd guessed from the opening scene of the finale that we were seeing future events, but it was that scene in his home that cemented it for me.

Will be interesting to see where this concept progresses from here.

Posted by: In Oklahoma | May 29, 2007 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Congratulations to the person above who reminded us that we don't really know anything about Rousseau. She said that she was part of an "expedition" that found the island because they followed a radio transmission that they picked up (a transmission of the numbers repeating over and over).

But what was the original purpose of her expedition? Who sponsored it? Could the island have been their original goal from the start (in other words, they were specifically searching for the islnand but didn't know exactly where it was or how to locate it until they came across the radio signal)? Could Rousseau's group have been sent by the same folks that sent Naomi's boat, or by rivals of Naomi's backers?

Many people have noted that the Others left Rousseau alone for all those years, which makes sense if she is a dangerous whack-job loner. But apparently the smoke-monster has let her be all this time as well. Why?

Could there be some connection between her and Jacob? They certainly seem to share a disdain for living with modern conveniences.

Posted by: Doc | May 29, 2007 3:52 PM | Report abuse

I don't think anyone mentioned this. I think my wife drilled it. How can Jack and Kate be a flash forward? When Jack is arguing with the black medical guy, he says, "Why don't you go upstairs and see if my father is drunker than me!" FYI his dad is dead. Either this is a serious screw up by the LOST writers or they went back in time when the Flash occured, got rescued and arrived back home a few years earlier.

This would Explain why Desmond can see more of the future as he was directly in the flash.

The guy in the Coffin is BEN, yup you heard it hear. It couldn't be anyone else or someone would have gone to the funeral. Jack forces BEN to leave the island as punishment, and he goes to the funeral because he knows BEN was right, and feels BEN was his only way back. Also, Ben's tumor grows when not on the island.

Finally Jack is flying all the time to try and get back to the island, and you heard it here first the very last episode will be Jack on the same OCEANIC flight that crashed, but the other members will not be on it, and when the plane starts to crash it will end with a big smile on his face. Since he went back home in the past he can take the same flight again.

Posted by: Peashooter | May 29, 2007 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Imagine you're a young woman on a mysterious island, and you've had to kill each member of your team as they become sick. Imagine that three days after you give birth alone your newborn daughter is snatched from you. I think it's reasonable to assume that this person might go a little crazy in an environment with smoke monsters, whispering voices and polar bears running loose.

Peashooter, I don't think Jack saying to Dr. Hamill to go and get his father was an error; I think it was the writers way of showing just how delusional Jack is on drugs and alcohol.

Posted by: Elsie | May 31, 2007 8:20 PM | Report abuse

Elsie - There are very few errors on this show, I totally agree with you on Jack and his comments about his dad. A few shows have had scenery errors (i.e. where you can see fishing boats in the backgrounds of a few scenes because the editors didn't "photoshop" them out), but something like what Jack said is definitely NOT a mistake that would be made. This show may seem like it covers a lot of ground or leaves open a lot of mysteries, but it is very careful with dialogue, etc nonetheless.

Posted by: Lost at Work | June 1, 2007 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Doc,
I think you brought up a great point about Rousseau. I'm convinced that there was a conflict on the island and "bad guys" were kicked off the island. I have thought for a long time that these "other-others" put the Losties together on the plane to crash on the island to obtain a beachhead on the island. I agree that Naomi was sent to contact the Losties and get their help in bringing the "boat" carrying the "bad guys" to the island. That's what I see happening in season 4.

Now Rousseau being part of a former attempt to retake the island is very interesting and something I had not seriously considered, but with the events that are taking place it is making more and more sense. By her statements she was on an expedition and they heard the signal and came to the island. One has to wonder how they could hear a signal no one else could. Once on the island the crew became sick and died (or she had to kill them?). From what I remember these were all men. She has her baby, which was conceived off island so would be ok just as Claires baby was ok, but the others kidnapped it just as they kidnapped Claire's baby though they were rescued. Rousseau put a new signal on the transmitter. She claims it was for rescue. Maybe it was to allow the other-others to find the island, so Ben sent the girls to the underwater hatch to maintain the radio interference.

All of this is leading me to the conclusion that there is an effort to retake the island. The Losties are part of the effort but mostly unaware. Naomi, Rousseau and possibly Desmond are also part of the effort. Remember, it was Desmond who allowed the island coordinates to be determined. It is now Naomi and the Losties that will help the "bad guys" on the boat to come to the island.

Now, remember that in past episodes there was this notion of a virus that was lethal. Claire's baby was taken to immunize him. This virus is what Rousseau said killed her crew. If you wanted to protect the island a lethal virus that you were immune to would be perfect. And the others probably had the resources to manufacture such a virus. It may have been released when Rousseau's boat landed, killing her crew but her pregnancy may have saved her somehow. It would explain the Quarantein label on the inside of the hatch.

The first guy in the hatch warned Desmond about the virus and took him out dressed in a biohazard suit. Desmond found that a lethal virus did not exist when he took off his suit. So I think there is a question about this virus. Is it still on the island? How did Desmond, Rousseau and the Losties survive it? Are our Losties and everyone else on the island somehow immunized? What may be freaking out the Others about Naomi is not the boat she came from but that she is alive, she somehow survived the virus that was protecting the island from the "bad guys".

The writers have promised a change in the game for season 4. I agree. The new struggle will be the good others (Ben & company) against the "bad guys" (on the boat) for the island and its powers and secrets. Our Losties will be challenged to pick sides, determine who is good and who is bad, and I expect this new struggle to last at least through season 4. And if the flash forward was really the future, it seems that Jack made a bad decision while Kate made a good one, and is now an Other (good guy) working in the real world to protect the island or continue the war between the others and bad guys. Maybe not knowing what the island is about is what prevents the virus from working, so the bad guys have determined you cannot send people who know the mission. I know, a stretch, but this struggle is being fought by the Losties who do not seem to know what they are fighting for. Rousseau's crew may have known the mission, and were killed.

Whew, time for a nap...

Posted by: Sully | June 3, 2007 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Can we talk about the fact that the Season 3 DVD isn't coming out until DECEMBER?? It's like it's some evil ploy to get us all to buy the overpriced iTunes version since how else are we going to spend our time this summer and fall if not overanalyzing all the Season 3 episodes! Argh!!! (The Heroes Season is coming out in August, so it's not like it's not possible....)

Posted by: Anonymous | June 7, 2007 7:24 PM | Report abuse

This has been a great read! Sorry I missed out on the conversation, but I had a commitment at the time the finale ep aired and didn't want to read any spoilers the day after. Only now getting around to finishing up the comments, 200+. Wow!

Some of you are very inciteful and have given me new perspectives on the show. Some of you are complete nut-jobs with a servere inability to use reason. But I love you anyway!

See you all in 2008!

Posted by: Not Shlomo | June 9, 2007 4:55 PM | Report abuse

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