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Posted at 11:43 AM ET, 02/ 1/2008

'Lost' Dueling Analyses: The Beginning of the End

By Liz Kelly

In which Movies editrix Jen Chaney and I hungrily resume our favorite weekly obsession: overanalyzing 'Lost.' (Warning: If you haven't yet watched last night's season premiere, tons of spoilers follow.)

Juliet, Sayid and Bernard (Elizabeth Mitchell, Naveen Andrews and Sam Anderson) await the arrival of the freighter crew. (AP)

Liz: Well Jen, was it all you thought it would be or did last night's season opener leave you confounded? Me, I liked it though I felt ABC was a bit disingenuous with the previews -- some of them showed exchanges with the "rescuers" (or should we call them the "boaties") that obviously weren't a part of this episode.

Jen: I was pretty happy with the episode overall. I thought Jorge Garcia was genuinely moving. I also really don't want to hear the usual bellyaching about how "we didn't get enough answers," "why won't they explain the polar bear?" etc. etc. First, I thought we started to get some tantalizing answers last night. Second of all, the whole enjoyment of "Lost," for me anyway, is trying to solve the mystery. I agree that we need some answers -- and still believe they will come -- but I am relishing the intrigue for as long as it lasts.

The first thing I want to talk about is Jack's father, Christian Shephard.

Liz: Hold that thought re: Christian.

I agree. Both on Hurley and on the mystery. It was a really deft stroke to see Hurley and his flash-forward be so closely tied to the crux of the plotline. His flash-forward raised two out of last night's four crucial new questions for me: Who makes up the Oceanic 6 and what does Charlie (apparently beyond the grave) want Hurley to do? But, sure, let's start with Christian Shephard -- he's my third question. Laying it all out there -- the fourth is: who are the Boaties?

Jen: I have some additional questions, too, but let's tackle these in random order. Christian Shephard: He was totally in that chair, in Jacob's Love Shack. I rewound and paused and that was without question him (here's a screengrab courtesy of ABC's press release also listed the actor, John Terry, as a guest star. After the show, I tracked down the last of the mobisodes, which apparently circulated on the Web earlier this week but had not yet been posted on ABC. It's a doozy.

You can watch it here, but essentially we see Christian Shephard alive, telling Vincent to go wake up Jack right after the crash of 815. So that coffin was empty for a reason. I believe Christian did die in real life, but on the island, he resurrects. The island heals somehow, for reasons that we still need to fully understand.

Much more after the jump...

Liz: Or -- having Christian Shephard appear not only in Jacob's cabin, but in the same chair and pose we saw Jacob in last season is certainly tantalizing. Is he actually Jacob or, like the smoke monster, is Jacob a being capable of shape-shifting and taking on other forms? Though why he'd choose to reveal himself to Hurley as Christian Shephard is beyond me. One possibility is that if Jacob is capable of taking on other forms, maybe he's limited to manifestations of people who have actually set foot on the island -- for instance, Jack's dad and Mr. Eko's brother, both of whom were actually on the island. So perhaps Christian isn't alive so much as being inhabited by the island spirit -- Jacob or the smoke monster.

And if the island resurrects, that better not mean there's hope for Nikki and Paolo.

Jen: That's an interesting concept. I, too, question why Hurley would see him since I believe in the shape-shifting. I also wondered who that second figure, the eye that peeked out the window, was and whether that might be Jacob. My initial thought is that it was Locke, since moments later Locke suddenly shows up all like, "Oh, hey Hugo. Um, what are you doing here?" But I am not sure. I do not think Christian was in the chair in last season's episode so the shack returns its air of mystery.

By the way, Lindelof has said Nikki and Paolo will never come back. I will note, however, that he made no similar promise about Boone.

Liz: Yes, chatters in last night's real time open chat here on the site were convinced it was Locke. I wasn't so sure. I initially thought it was McPatchy, but I understand Lindelof said in a podcast that McPatchy is definitely dead. Though with all this resurrecting going on, who knows.

Jen: Also -- and this will segue is into the Charlie issue -- I found it interesting that he told Hurley, "I am dead. But I'm also here." Maybe that applies to Christian in some way, too. He's dead in reality but remains a presence... a presence that apparently can order Vincent to go wake up his son.

Liz: Also, I hate to say it and open this can of worms again, but that also calls into question the very life of everyone on the island. I know, I know -- we have been told they did not die in the crash, but well, there it is.

And I thought Charlie's statement jibed well with Dominic Monaghan's current career.

Jen: Oh, meanie! I was so happy to see Monaghan last night. Glad they are letting him stick around. You raise a good point about the death issue: As others pointed out in the chat, Ben specifically used the term, "every living person on this island will die." Which implies that some of them are not living.

Liz: Right -- I caught that, too. Why bother to throw the word "living" into that sentence?

But yes, let's talk about Charlie and his reason for appearing to Hurley. What was it? What does he want Hurley to do? It seems obvious that Hurley and the other "Oceanic 6" are hiding a secret and that the story they've shared after returning to civilization was a fabrication. But to what end? And who was the chilling suit who also came to visit Hurley in the hospital, promising a nicer facility in exchange for information?

One of the chatters last night, eprice29, said "I think they [the Oceanic 6] are all lying about the whole experience, like Hurley said he never met Ana Lucia -- probably had to cut a deal."

Jen: Charlie told Hurley that "they" need Hurley. And the alleged attorney for Oceanic -- otherwise known as Lance Reddick, otherwise known as Lt. Daniels from "The Wire" -- also said something about "they" still being alive. The obvious inference is that some people have been left behind on the island and that potentially bad things may be happening to them.

I'm going to make a bold prediction right now: Something unsavory is going to happen to Claire and Aaron. They are going to take the baby away or something. I think that is magnifying Hurley's guilt about his choices ("I never should have gone with Locke"). His decision to do that, and his fantastic speech about Charlie, prompted Claire to follow.

Liz: Interesting that you say "bad things." It goes along with Hurley's regret about following Locke. It does imply that those left on the island -- since we're now assuming that's the case -- are not there by choice or are under duress. Hurley seems to feel some remorse for leaving them, as does Jack -- who has turned to drinking massive tumblers of mixed drinks when he gets home from work. One interesting thing my husband pointed out though: the Oceanic 6 apparently contains members from both groups -- those that followed Jack and those that followed Locke. So it isn't as if one entire group was left behind.

We are also now preconditioned to be wary of Locke. Because, like, who wouldn't trust Hurley?

Jen: Very true. Let's pause, since this also was such a major issue in the live chat, and identify the six. We only know for sure of three: Hurley, Jack and Kate. I believe Jin and Sun also make it out alive. Do you agree? And who is the sixth?

Liz: I think the sixth is whoever was in the coffin in Jack's flash-forward at the end of last season.

Jen: I'll also note that this is another answer the show gave us last night: That six people make it off the island. Just sayin'.

I'm not convinced about Sun and Jin, though. Why them? Why not Bernard and Rose? After all, Sun is pregnant. Wouldn't the island be especially keen to keep her there?

Jen: Well, to be fair, I am basing this on a spoiler I read (which I won't reveal) about something that happens later this season.

Liz: That is totally unfair, Jen!

Jen: To clarify, the spoiler didn't say: Sun and Jin leave the island. I inferred it from what I read.

Another question: Why does Hurley tell Jack -- who totally stinks at HORSE -- that "it" wants us to come back. What is the it he is referring to?

Liz: He's referring to the island force, whatever "it" is. The way Hurley said it, though, gave me the notion that Charlie was a part of that force and that Hurley did not entirely trust it. And I think Jack was off his game because he was preoccupied. He does, by the way, totally rock the skinny tie look.

Jen: Oh, he so does. Matthew Fox rocks a lot of things. Except maybe a fake beard.

Liz: Obviously, though, at some point Jack comes around to Hurley's point of view -- we know because his own flash-forward from last season postdates Hurley's. In Jack's (with the beard), he's obsessed with finding his way back to the island.

Jen: The "it" Hurley refers to also could be "Eli Stone." If I saw one more ad for that last night, I would have to believe an evil entity was responsible for it.

Liz: Surely only an evil entity would conceive of a show featuring an inspirational lawyer. Puh-leeze.

Jen: Yes, agreed. I also think we got a hint last night that Jack was unsettled. Hence the vodka in his orange juice in the first two minutes of the ep. Which by the way, kicked off with a bang. I knew Hurley was in that Camaro so I wasn't surprised by the reveal, but still: Awesome open.

Liz: Yes, it was. Very "Dukes of Hazzard"-esque, what with the driving into a pile of melons. I was waiting for Boss Hog to appear.

So, back to the island -- should we contemplate the provenance of the Boaties? Who are they? I'm going with representatives of Hanso Foundation pariah Thomas Mittelwerk. These people are clearly folks who knew about the island, but don't have a direct relationship with anyone on it. And Ben seems to be clued in to who they are and the fact that they are not to be trusted. They are interlopers.

Jen: Naomi was radioing with a dude named George. But at the end of the episode, Jeremy Davies shows up. And he plays a character named Daniel Faraday. So I wasn't sure if we should even assume he was working with Naomi. I don't think the freighter peeps are affiliated with Dharma. I agree that they are affiliated with some third party, possibly, as you smartly suggest, Mittelwerk.

Liz: It would be quite a coincidence, though, for Faraday to show up so soon after Naomi radioed the coordinates to the boat. Though my question about Faraday is why he parachuted in? There are plenty of places to land a copter on the island.

Jen: It would. I just thought the way the episode played, the viewer would assume Davies is George, the guy whose voice we heard earlier. But that's not how he is identified in the credits.

Jen: I also wonder whether Lance Reddick's character is affiliated with the freighter group. His name is Matthew Abbadon, which screams anagram. All I could piece together though was that last name almost spells "a bad one." Is that too obvious?

Oooh, interesting -- quick search reveals that "Abaddon" is a Hebrew word meaning destruction. From the Wikipedia entry:
"By extension, it can mean an underworld abode of lost souls, or hell ... Many Biblical scholars believe Abaddon to be Satan or the antichrist. Others have stated that he may be one of the lesser demons of hell, or even a dark angel."

Jen: So definitely a bad one. Not that we couldn't tell. You can't trust a person without business cards. I also noticed that when Abbadon first greets Hurley he is sitting in front of a chess board. As we talked about earlier this week during our "Looking Glass" discussion, that could signify that he is trying to outsmart Hurley.

A couple of other questions. One I had: How did Ben know that Kate had followed the "right" trail of blood? And if he's so concerned about saving the Losties and distrustful of Naomi, why didn't he just tell Jack that? He's making it very hard to continue my belief that his motivations are for a higher purpose.

Liz: I think Ben knew Kate had followed the right trail because he actually saw Naomi get up and leave (and probably come back and take a different route). Also, why did Kate take the sat phone -- she seemed to already be distrustful of the boaties and Jack's handling of them. So not only do I distrust Locke, I distrust Kate. Although, knowing her, it's just another boneheaded move.

Jen: You just hate her. I can't even trust your judgment on Kate due to your hatred.

Liz: Guilty as charged.

Jen: That said, I thought she took the sat phone because she didn't want to argue with Jack and she really did think they should check out the other trail of blood. Not a nice thing to do to our hero. But it also was smart.

Liz: One other tidbit I noticed and wanted to mention -- did you notice in Hurley's flash-forward when Mr. Abbadon comes to visit that Hurley is occupied with painting a man standing outside an igloo in a snowy landscape?

Jen: One shocking moment I want to include: The fact that Jack seriously would have shot Locke. Pulled the trigger and everything.

Liz: Unless Jack knew the gun wasn't loaded.

Jen: He didn't seem to. He was just going to shoot, and looked surprised, then ashamed, when nothing happened. I think he is letting the power struggle take over his judgment. And pride comes before the fall ... the fall being trying to jump off a bridge while taking OxyContin or whatever it was.

Should we sneak a peek at next week's episode and what we have to look forward to?

Liz: Yes, it's titled -- tantalizingly -- "Confirmed Dead." The press release promises only that we'll meet four characters from the freighter who may not be all they seem. But who is dead? Does that mean the Boaties tell them the Oceanic passengers had already been confirmed dead or something else?

Jen: It makes me think that all of our postulating about who's dead and who is alive could have a payoff of some kind. These titles usually have a double meaning. So it probably means the literal thing: They'll confirm that Oceanic allegedly had no survivors. But it also may mean that we learn some people are dead that seemed alive. John Terry is not on the cast list, so it appears at first blush that Christian Shephard won't be making an appearance. But hopefully Michael will.

Liz: Yes, I see Harold Perrineau is listed, though I think he was listed for this week, too. Until next week, then?

Jen: Until next week. It's so good to be back, isn't it?

Liz: Indeed. Let's hope for a speedy end to the writers' strike so we can power through all 16 promised episodes.

By Liz Kelly  | February 1, 2008; 11:43 AM ET
Categories:  Lost  
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I'll be glad when Lost is off the air for good...

Posted by: BDWESQTM | February 1, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Kate took the satphone so she could give it to Naomi to key in the coordinates the freighter people were asking for.

Also, I think is is hilarious that Jack was drinking OJ while watching the car chase.

Posted by: MSCS | February 1, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Just saw the mobisode, "So it Begins" with Christian, Jack and Vincent the dog, and I was reminded of the dog portrait in Jacob's shanty. What was that about? It didn't look like Vincent, a lab, more like a mastiff or blood hound. But does that clip mean that on the island you can communicate with animals on some higher level? So could there be some importance in showing the animal portrait, along with the shadowed figure and the Eye of Mystery?

Posted by: rachelt | February 1, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Whew! That's tantalizing stuff! I'm doing Lost on DVD, and I'm only a handful of episodes into the 3rd season (just finished the completely useless Nikki/Paolo one). I can't tolerate the wait between episodes, so we'll be waiting for the 4th season DVD before we get into last night's show. So fun!

Posted by: atb | February 1, 2008 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Decent episode. I don't really care about the mystery at all anymore, this show is becoming more like a Stephen King book, great build-up but poor payoff once you see an explanation. All I care about anymore are the characters that are not Jack, Kate, and Sawyer, so any episode that is not focused on them is fine by me.

Posted by: Chris | February 1, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Couldn't have been Locke at the window: he's got blue eyes and the Eye of Mystery was brown.

Posted by: rachelt | February 1, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Nice to see you again, ladies!
My current wild theory is that the Losties overpowered the Boaties in some epic battle where a lot of people died, and took over their equipment to get 6 of them off the island.

Also, how did Kate come back to the mainland with anonymity? Wasn't she a wanted criminal? Did they just dismiss her murder charge because of the ordeal she went through?

Posted by: uv | February 1, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

"I'll be glad when Lost is off the air for good...

Posted by: BDWESQTM | February 1, 2008 11:55 AM"

Unhelpful and unnecessary. Thanks for the input...

Anyway; my wife made a very keen observation that I totally missed. Did anyone notice when the lawyer was leaving while Hurley was freaking out? She swears she saw a darker-than-shadow shadow exiting the door...smoke maybe?

Posted by: J | February 1, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Charlies t-shirt last night was totally disturbing, too. It looked like a huge blood stain on the shoulder/upper-left chest area. It was very disturbing, like he'd just been stabbed.

Also, how did the other asylum patient see Charlie if he is really dead and can only be seen by Hurley?
(alright...back to reading)

Posted by: rachelt | February 1, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

I think Kate took the passport of the woman who drowned in the first season so she is under another identity.

Posted by: MSCS | February 1, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

About the guy parachuting in... Naomi parachutes, Juliet arrives by submarine, the plane crashes into it.... It may be the only way to the island may be to sneak in or or pass through something unseen to get there - as if it's hidden from direct link to our world. The only one we see traveling on a horizontal plane is Michael and his son, and we don't know what happened to them.

Posted by: rachelt | February 1, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

A great beginning for the fourth season. One thing that bugged me though, ABC promoted the "Oceanic Air" commercial all the way through the two hour "Lost Event". When it finally began during "Eli Stone", after about a nano-second, WJLA (the Washington ABC affiliate) pre-empted it with an "Oprah" commercial!! Unbelievable! Did anyone not watching in Washington, DC get to see it? What was it about? What was the "offer of a lifetime"? WJLA has some 'splainin to do.

Posted by: dckit | February 1, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

I am still bitter that where I live they did not only test the emergency broadcast system once during the opening scenes of the show, but again directly after the first commercial break. I bet I am not the only person up in this part of the world frustrated with that.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Def. When Ben looks at Jack and said..

Jack, is it alright if I go with John?

Sooooo creepy. I also loved seeing Charlie as well. Awesome

Nice convo about the eppie.

Posted by: Favorite Line | February 1, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Liz, I think we need a Lost chat on Fridays - any chance of that?

Posted by: KS | February 1, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

"I think Kate took the passport of the woman who drowned in the first season so she is under another identity.

Posted by: MSCS | February 1, 2008 12:17 PM "

Possibly. But I still find it hard to believe that *nobody* would recognize her if the "Oceanic 6" was a big enough media show that Jack is signing autographs.

Perhaps it was covered up that she came back, and she's not actually considered one of the 6?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

So is one of the Oceanic 6 dead? That is, the person whose funeral Jack went to last season?

Posted by: ah | February 1, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

I must be the only person who thought last night episode was boring. It was slow and nothing really happened. The only new information was the "Oceanic Six."

Posted by: boredinVA | February 1, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps it was covered up that she came back, and she's not actually considered one of the 6?

Posted by: | February 1, 2008 12:34 PM

Maybe that's why she didn't want to go to the funeral.

Posted by: MSCS | February 1, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Ok,two questions about the season finale. First, when Jack is all Oxycodoned-out, he references his father in the hospital. But since this is a flash-forward, isn't his father dead? Second, the voice-over claims that Desmond got his premonition powers after the hatch blew up, but I seem to recall an episode when Desmond recognizes Charlie on the street and has other deja vous episodes before he even landed on the island. What's up with that?

Posted by: VeryLost | February 1, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Hurley was playing connect 4 when Mr. Abbadon came to visit. He ws painting the Eskimos when Charlie came to visit.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

VeryLost- Jack mentions his dad, but noone says he is alive. It's sort of a "don't you know who i am?" moment. And Des' deja vous episode was a near death experience -- not real, just in his head. The old woman that appears in the ring shop tells him that.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone notice that the woman with the others at one point was holding a Stephen King book.

Posted by: charlotte nc | February 1, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Actually, I thought the eye in the window was Locke's - because I don't think it was brown.

I just did a massive reviewing of all 3 seasons, and you get a lot of close-ups of Terry O'Quinn's eyes. So I'm kinda tuned into them right now - his eyes are so pretty ;) And when the eye came up, and the first thing I said was "Locke!" Perhaps we should ask the spoiler site for a screen cap.

It would also make sense for Locke to be there, given his new-found affinity with Jacob.

I just thought it was interesting that Hurley could actually see Jacob.

Per Christian and Charlie and second plane:

If you don't have the Season 3 DVD, they have an orientation video for another hatch called "The Orchid". In it, Martin Candle (or whatever name he's using that day) is holding a white bunny with a 15 on it. But all of a sudden, another one seems to drop out of nowhere and there's panic because they can't be in close proximity. (you can see the film here:

So considering that the writers are always going on about "Space time continuum" existence, I'm thinking that maybe the plane doubled - the other one dropped in the ocean where no one survived, the other one dropped on the island with survivors. Sort of a matter/anti-matter thing.

So perhaps when the island duplicates, it resurrects. Hence a "live" Yemi (who was most certainly dead when the little plane crashed) and a "live" Christian (who was dead - remember Juliet tells Jack she has Christian's autopsy report). It would even explain Hurley's "Dave" - a figment of his imagination made flesh. But in reality, they are more like copies of people as they were at their death, who don't age.

That might even explain the original Others, like Richard Alpert. People always go on about how they were dressed like perhaps they came from the Black Rock, they don't appear to age, and Ben has to ask Richard if he remembers birthdays. Perhaps the original Black Rock is under the ocean, and the other occupants are duplicate.

So the spectral Charlie can get off the island - much like Richard Alpert could get off the island to recruit Juliet. And maybe that even explains Walt somehow - remember how Mrs. Klugh was asking if he showed up someplace he wasn't supposed to?

Who knows. That's why I love this show - it just keeps you thinking and guessing...

Posted by: Chasmosaur | February 1, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Why was Hurley able to feel Charlie's slap if Charlie is a ghost? I'm wondering if Charlie has become a time traveler.

Posted by: ckf | February 1, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

dckit-- I was watching it up in Baltimore. If you go visit [the website listed at the bottom of the screen during the stewardesses' shots on the commercial], you'll see a longer version of what we saw last night.

[Also try YouTube for the "real" commercial from last night... as there was a clip in it that was pretty disturbing and not included in the website listed above.]

Posted by: jmnovakovic | February 1, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

How did Locke know about Charlie's message? He and Hurley discussed it outside the shack.

Posted by: mark | February 1, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Anyone know what was eing said when Hurley was standing in front of the cabin (before he looked inside)?

Posted by: lostie | February 1, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Really enjoyed the show; I'm with Liz/Jen et al -- enjoying the ride & not too worried about the destination...

Anyhow, I think Locke is in the coffin -- no friends, no family; probably no money & that's why he's in a simple coffin in a low-rent area of L.A.

Also, an equally important question is why'd Jack feel compelled to go and pay his respects? Was it guilt? Was it to confirm something? Was it remorse? Sadness?

Until next week...

Posted by: JP | February 1, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Anyhow, I think Locke is in the coffin -- no friends, no family; probably no money & that's why he's in a simple coffin in a low-rent area of L.A.
Posted by: JP | February 1, 2008 01:01 PM

Whoever is in the coffin is the next actor to get caught drunk driving. (ala Ana Lucia, Libby and Mr. Eko)

Posted by: MSCS | February 1, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

i think that Ben may be the guy in the coffin. even though everyone's pretty anti-Locke right now, they have gone through a lot with him, and he clearly has good in him. I can't see Kate making that comment about him. But BEN! Ben would really have no one to mourn him and I can definitely see Kate saying "why would I go to his funeral?" And if Jack now thinks leaving the island was wrong, i can see him going to the funeral out of some bitter curiosity, since Ben warned him about the rescuers.

Posted by: pq | February 1, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

I thought it was Locke's eye in the window, until I watched the slo-mo video linked above. Now I think it's McPatchy. The video doesn't appear as though you can see Jacob as clearly as the still would imply. Could this be a photoshop?

We are all assuming the Oceanic 6 are the only 6 people who made it off the island. The "6" in question may not be survivors at all. There may be some other qualification that separates those 6 from the others (not the Others) on the island. On a side note, I said last night that it would make things interesting if they wholesale slaughtered people this season and only 6 people remained alive on the island. Don't think they will, but...

I think Charlie really is dead. It would cheapen the danger of the island if Charlie, Boone, Ana, Eko & Shannon survived. Lindelof & co. already stated they wanted the danger to seem real and that's why characters had to die. Hurley felt the slap because it was his imagination. The other guy saw "a guy" (we don't know he saw Charlie), but he's in a nuthouse!

Liz & Jen may be enjoying the mystery, and I suppose I am too, but I really *DO* want some friggin' answers! Before we raise 15 other questions about Jacob, rescuers, Penny, Naomi, George etc., tell us about the Black Rock, the polar bear, Dharma, Rousseau, the Others, Benry, the Foot, Smokey, and a few others I can't even remember, *THEN* start throwing Jacob et al into the mix...

Sorry this got so long.

Posted by: fft5305 | February 1, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Christian and Charlie are resurrected. I think they're travelling through time, moving FROM a time when they weren't dead.

Posted by: We See Dead People | February 1, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

chasmosaur: My husband and I love your "duplicate" theory and have been sitting here discussing it...

We had a similar theory that The Island creates duplicates based on anyone dead, because the only duplicate live person we've seen is Walt, and who knows if he's really even alive. (Hence the "have you seen him anywhere" question.)

Posted by: uv | February 1, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

One comment for now...

Jack's quick trigger with respect to Locke - I believe this had something to do with his conversation with Ben in last season's finale. He nearly allowed 3 of his friends to be killed by hestitating and letting Ben talk into the walkie ("if you don't hear from me in one minute, shoot them"). That probably is messing with him, and he thinks giving anyone a free moment will result in awful things.

Posted by: SK | February 1, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

I still believe that when Hurley falls into the Ho-Hos in the convenience store it means there are two versions of flight 815

H - 8th letter
O- 15th letter

Ho-Ho (815-815)

And this is further hinted at when playing Horse they only get up to H-O.

I'm pretty sure this solves the riddle of Lost.

Posted by: DCer | February 1, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

to uv:

Oh, I'm sure there are twenty billion holes in it, but the whole "we found a plane in the trench" and the duplicate bunny #15 got me thinking ;)

As for Walt - he was always "special", so maybe the Island increased his specialness.

Even at it's least exciting, Lost is still engaging...

Posted by: Chasmosaur | February 1, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

jmnovakovic - can you post a link to that youtube video? i can't seem to find it

Posted by: gumball83 | February 1, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Here is a link to the Oceanic commercial:

The end of the commercial definitely backs up the two planes theory.

Posted by: Jen | February 1, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

First, I am really stoked that Lost is back and that the end is in sight. With the final season in 2010, we can get a sense of the pacing from last night's episode. If every show from here on is as jam-packed as this one was, I'm with it for the duration. No more whining about four-toed statues and polar bears, the answers are coming along with more twist and turns. This is gonna be a good ride.

Second: Why was everyone still upset with Locke over the submarine? Everyone seemed to mention it. Shouldn't that be ancient history now that the Boat People have arrived?

Third: Jen: "I believe Christian did die in real life, but on the island, he resurrect." Well,his name is "Christian Shephard" and as we all know, names have significance in this show (looking up Faraday as I type). Even if it's not spelled the same way, Jacob/Christian as leader of the flock would fit nicely in the scheme of things. And we all get the Christian part.

(Losing count) That dog picture in Jacob's cabin appeared in the earlier episode, too, didn't it?

Lastly: Lostpedia gives yet another meaning to "abbadon" as he who guards the abyss where Satan is imprisoned.

Posted by: Not Shlomo | February 1, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Yay!! i'm sooo glad lost is back!

about the boat: there's a "clue game" on abc's lost page, where steve (i think that's his name) is searching for his girlfriend who was a flight attendant on 815, and there's quite a bit of information about the boat - he's actually on it. The boat is searching for the Black Rock - the "slave ship" that disappeared in 1896 (?), the captain of the ship at the time of its disappearance -Hanso. I did't have enough time to read through all of it, but I think it was interesting.

Posted by: oceana | February 1, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

I thought last night's episode was great, and it answered a ton of questions:

- The group is going to split up into two rival camps, one led by Jack and the other by Locke. Jack's camp will voluntarily or involuntarily leave the island while Locke's group remains to carry on the fight against our latest group of enemies, the helicopter guys.

- Everyone who returns from the Island is haunted by intense feelings of guilt for leaving, to the point of self-destruction -- particularly Hurley and Jack. Plus, the island itself (in the form of Charlie) is calling for help. It's a safe bet to assume that the Oceanic 6 are going to spend this season trying to get back to the island, while battling the real-world forces of evil in the process. Come on, you KNOW they're all going back -- probably in the last episode of this season.

Rather than focusing on pre-crash backstories, this season is going to alternate between real-world post-crash and present-day action, vs. an ongoing plot on the island. This is the pattern set tonight, including introducing real-world villains into the real-world action.

OK, here are my conjectures and one final thought:

My guess at the Oceanic 6 -- Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, Ben, and Claire. Sawyer because "He" is the one who's going to notice when Kate gets back home from the airport. Ben is the man in the coffin who is neither friend nor family. Claire will be convinced, probably in a moment of extreme turmoil, to leave Aaron on the island and go home. My first alternate: Jack's dad, who is apparently still chief of surgery at his hospital after they return (and let's not forget, Claire's father). Most awful possibility (since I never want to see him leave the island): Locke, who is the man in the coffin in this scenario -- neither friend nor family.


If you want to look back a little, there are two early moments which I feel are central to the entire plot of Lost. Claire dreams of Locke in Season 1 episode 10 "Raised by Another." Locke has one black eye and one white eye (note that you saw only one black eye in the window last night). He says to her, "you gave him away. Now we all have to pay the price." Combine that with Charlie's dreams in Season 2 Episode 12 "Fire and Water," in which Claire and Charlie's mother, dressed in religious clothing, urge him to "Save the baby!"

These two dreams are, to me, the two most memorable and disturbing scenes in a superb TV show which is chock-full of memorable scenes. More importantly, though, they are the clues to the central conflict at the heart of this show -- the battle between good and evil for Aaron's soul.

For this plot line to play itself out, Claire must be separated from her baby, and for some reason voluntarily leave him behind on the island. This development also raises the complex question of whether Locke is good, evil, or misguided -- I'm rooting for Good, but we'll have to wait to find out...

Posted by: Steve | February 1, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I like the fact Liz used the word "interloper" in her analysis. That's not a word you see every day.

Otherwise, I'll be interested to see the ratings for last night's episode. It's not like a lot of people were talking about the show after such a long layoff. I think the audience is slowly giving up and won't come back until the final episodes, kind of like what happened to The Sopranos.

I'm trying to figure out how these people are going to milk this for two more years.

Posted by: rickNmd | February 1, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and I'll just add: Aaron's importance is also emphasised by the strict warning from the psychic to Claire that it is extremely important that she never leave his care to another, and his desperate actions to get her on the plane to the island. At the end of the episode, Claire realizes that the psychic put her on that flight on purpose.

Notice that Charlie is also a Joseph figure -- the willing stepfather who had to settle for just a kiss..

Posted by: Steve | February 1, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

re: the psychic who said claire MUST raise the baby. remember, he changed his tune and wanted her to allow a couple in LA to adopt her baby. she has since decided that the psychic really wanted her on the island, but that was just her belief. In another episode, the "psychic" admitted to Mr. Eko that he was a complete fraud.

Posted by: pq | February 1, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Excellent points, Chasmosaur. Liz and Jen mentioned the two-plane theory as well. In "Tale of Two Cities" wasn't it shown that the crash of Flight 815 occurred at the same time Desmond neglected to enter the code in the Hatch and set off an electromagnetic disruption. Couldn't that have caused this parallel rift to occur? I think we're on to something.

Posted by: Brandybuck | February 1, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Jmnovakovic and Jen! That's Sam from the game. Two parallel universes caused by electromagnetic disturbances? Holy Moly!

Posted by: dckit | February 1, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Breaking News - 1.31 - Channel ANC - Oceanic Flight 815 Found:

Posted by: gumball83 | February 1, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Here's an idea....

I am thinking Locke's group has become the new "others" Any thoughts?

Posted by: SOL | February 1, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

As for the "Oceanic 6"; remember from the season 3 finale Jack mentions that his father is alive and evidently working at the hospital when he freaks out. I think we can count him as one of the people that make it off the island.

Posted by: kevin | February 1, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Hello. I am intrigued by what I've heard regarding *Lost* and I would like to get into watching it. Unfortunately, I don't have time to sit through 3 seasons of the show on DVD. Is there any website out there that can give me enough background so that I can start watching the show now without becoming (if you'll pardon the pun) lost?

Posted by: Robert B. | February 1, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

I've been trying to figure out the "Oceanic 6" too. Jack, Kate and Hurley are all confirmed to be off the island in the flash-forwards. At first I speculated that Jin and Sun would have to be part of the group because of her pregnancy. Then I remembered Desmond's final Charlie vision, and in it he sees Claire and Aaron getting into a helicopter. That would leave room for only one more. In the Season 3 finale, Jack references his father as if he's still alive and working at the hospital. And then there's whoever was in the coffin at the viewing that only Jack showed up to...

Posted by: GravitySchmavity | February 1, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Awesome ep- it was worth the wait for me. An observation though based upon Liz & Jen's comments:

"We only know for sure of three (Oceanic 6): Hurley, Jack and Kate. I believe Jin and Sun also make it out alive. Do you agree?" -Liz or Jen

Are we sure that Jack and Kate are part of the Oceanic 6? Why would Hurley feel the need to apologize to Jack for going with Locke if they ultimately left together? I'm guessing there were at least two groups that left the island- the "Jack" group and the Oceanic 6 group.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Robert, you could try , there is a lot of info there. Honestly, I've seen every episode and I can't even remember everything. It may take a while, but it would be worth watching the whole thing. It really is like one long movie. Incredible series IMO.

Posted by: J | February 1, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

I like the Ho Ho theory, that's brilliant.

What if Hurley is seeing things that aren't there. What if its the opposite. Twice in this episode he forced himself to stop seeing something. What if he's NOT seeing things that are actually there.

Posted by: michele | February 1, 2008 2:58 PM | Report abuse

I also think that Jack's father is alive in the flash-forward and is raising Aaron in some sort of evil-Damien-type way. Aaron might not be considered an Oceanic 6 due to being a baby.

Posted by: Xopher G. | February 1, 2008 2:58 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe the Jin/Sun spoiler! I like reading your recaps but a spoiler for a future episode? PLEASE don't do it.

Posted by: Anon | February 1, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

If you watch the commercial, it tells you to go to It appears to be some kind of Lost game. Is this old news?

Posted by: mango | February 1, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Okay, Jen and Liz, I really appreciate the dueling analysis, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE no more spoilers. I guess the Jin/Sun thing isn't technically a spoiler but for those of us who religiously avoid spoilers, it REALLY sucks. If you want to talk spoilers, that's fine, just put a disclaimer at the top and I'll avoid it. Thanks.

Posted by: Stef | February 1, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

I too saw the black smoke-like shading when the scary dude left Hurley's sanitarium. It definitely was not simply just a shadow. Also, even though the guy had dark skin, when they flash to him after Hurley rejects his credentials his skin appeared to have a similar smoke-like shading. He certainly appears to be one bad man!

Posted by: vjl | February 1, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

my apologies if this was stated, i only read through 1/2.

The Jack's dad conundrum. I don't think he was ever dead. Not a island ressurrection nor Jacob shape-shifting.
In Looking Glass, Jack refers to his dad, when accused of being drunk, he tells his boss, "You go upstairs and if my dad is not drunker than me, then fire me."

Jack's dad, is woven into the storyline in many places.

Posted by: mindy jeanne | February 1, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I think Kate took the passport of the woman who drowned in the first season so she is under another identity.

Posted by: MSCS | February 1, 2008 12:17 PM

This makes no sense. Imagine you're the family of the dead woman whose passport Kate has. Your dead family member gets heralded in the press as one of the "Oceanic 6." When you go to the family reception, and you see Kate, you're going to go screaming to the media "that's not our family member! This is an imposter!"

So this means that Kate is back in the real world in the flash forwards, and she is living as Kate - not under an assumed identity of a dead Oceanic passenger.

Were her past sins forgiven by law enforcement? Or were they wiped away by the island?

Posted by: rorlando | February 1, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Ok, here's what I don't get.

When Charlie died in the season 3 finale, Naomi turned to Claire and asked her what her boyfriend's name was. She told Naomi, and Naomi says, "He's just been rescued!"

What does this MEAN? Especially if Charlie is dead.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Jen! This analysis was awesome but was incredibly tainted by your Jin/Sun spoiler. Stick to your theories and ANALYSIS OF WHAT'S BEEN AIRED, ONLY. Thank you.

Posted by: lostie | February 1, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Hey, anonymous at 3:43 --
Naomi thought Charlie had been rescued because her phone started working. She knew Charlie was working to turn off the jamming signal at the Looking Glass station.

Posted by: other liz | February 1, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Robert B- I'd definitely recommend the DVDs. What's the rush? The only reason I can see wanted to skip seasons 1-3 is to be part of the analysis, but it's so not worth it! You'll love the ride.

Posted by: atb | February 1, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Naomi did not say that Charlie had been rescued. I believe she said, "he's just gotten us rescued."

Posted by: lostlinda | February 1, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

THEORY - ok, so Hurley regrets not going with Jack because a) it split up the group and b) most people with Locke end up getting captured/killed and Hurley feels responsible for anyone having gone with Locke in the first place. The Boaties are indeed after the Others, however they mean no harm to the Losties but those that went with Locke fight against the Boaties and hence end up in trouble. Because of team Locke, the Others overpower the Boaties and Ben reigns again. Ben decides he has had enough of the Lostie trouble makers and makes a secret deal with Jack to take 6 off the island if they take Locke with them (who Ben now feels he cannot ever kill and will become too powerful). Jack, who is clearly desperate to get off the island, takes the deal and they use the Boaties helicoper to go home... the six: Sayid (trouble maker and can probably fly a helicopter), Kate and Sawyer (Jack loves her and thinks she wants to be with Sawyer so he also takes Sawyer who is a trouble maker anyway), Locke (part of deal), and Hurley (recently taken leadership role which could lead to trouble for Ben). So, they escape and have to make up a tale because Ben threatens to kills those that are left is anyone else comes. They hate Locke because the Boaties would have helped if not for him and he got Losties killed. SO, Locke is in the coffin, Jack feels conflicted because he thinks Locke was right about not leaving and shouldn't have called the boaties. Hurley feels equally guilty for reasons stated above and for leaving everyone, especially Claire and Aaron, which is why he sees Charlie... and the Boaties are still looking for the island (hence scary oceanic lawyer).

Posted by: mango | February 1, 2008 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Two little observations about last night's episode.

When Hurley crashed his car, some guy in a colored vest (who was made to look like a store employee) was immediately filming Hurley with a camcord. And the camcord showed up in another frame after Hurley was pushed up against the wall by the police. Was this someone who was tracking Hurley or just a bystander who happened to have a camcorder?

Penny knows from her brief conversation with Charlie that survivors of the Oceanic flight were with Desmond on the island. The "lawyer" who came to visit Hurley in the mental institution might have been a representative of Penny, trying to find out more information about Desmond. At the least, Penny must have tried (by this point in the story) to make some contact with the Oceanic Six.

Posted by: Chris | February 1, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Naomi didn't say Charlie has been rescued... she said Well, he just got us rescued.

Posted by: charlie not rescued | February 1, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

"Penny must have tried (by this point in the story) to make some contact with the Oceanic Six."

Unless Desmond is one of the Six.

Posted by: mark | February 1, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

First, Naomi is connected to someone on the island -- she had Desmond and Penelope's picture with her when she crashed. Second, What about Jack's father for one of the 6; Jack was talking about him in last season's finale. Finally, what if Hurley feels bad he wasn't able to help Jack's group protect themselves aginst the new arivals, that why he apologizes for going with Locke?

Posted by: S | February 1, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

For those speculating that Ben, Jack's dad, or Desmond are part of the Oceanic 6 - wouldn't you have to have been on the Oceanic flight to be part of the Oceanic 6?

Posted by: Anne | February 1, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Robert B:
My sister wants to do the same thing. Here's a really good video summary of the last 3 seasons on YouTube -

(It's also 8 minutes, 15 seconds long! HA!)

Until you get caught up, that may be enough for you. But I would still suggest you try and go back and watch some of them. It may not be as suspenseful now that you know a few answers, but it's still worth the trip!

Posted by: uv | February 1, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Anne -- technically, Jack's father WAS on flight 815 (in a casket, but nonetheless...)

Posted by: S | February 1, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

"Liz: Though my question about Faraday is why he parachuted in? There are plenty of places to land a copter on the island."

I'm pretty sure if you go back a watch the flight of the chopper it is in some distress. I think I recall that when Naomi parachuted in as well. It must be one of those no-fly zones.

Posted by: chopper trouble | February 1, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

S - as soon as I hit submit, I realized that someone would say that :)

Posted by: Anne | February 1, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Last nights episode brought a lot of theories back to mind, it has been awhile since I have been in Lost mode.

The Oceanic 6 is interesting; I have a hard time believing anyone got off the island without being associated with that group, so you have to assume they left people on the island. As for Jack's dad being alive, not true. He is clearly makeing a point that the history of the department has ignored alcoholism in the past, besides the fact he introduced himself to Jack as the new chief of surgery (and his father was creepily seen rocking in jacob;s chair!). I think the other half of the O6 is benry/locke (whoever was in the coffin), sun and jin (just because of liz's spoiler).

Hurley was in a mental institution prior to the isalnd, right? So he has a pre-disposition to seeing things and makes a case for a higher connection to the island/jacob since there has been no shortage of visual hallucinations (or are they real?) on the island.

I am not even going to hypothesize on what terms they were resuced or left the island, but it obviously wasn't ideal, and at the very least it is haunting both jack and hugo (and maybe casket dude too). I can't wait for next week!

Posted by: DudeAbides | February 1, 2008 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Anne wrote: "For those speculating that Ben, Jack's dad, or Desmond are part of the Oceanic 6 - wouldn't you have to have been on the Oceanic flight to be part of the Oceanic 6?"

Jack's dad was on the flight. In a coffin.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

The obituary for the man in the coffin last season said that the deceased was survived by a teenage son. Either it was Michael in the coffin, or the flash forward from last season was at least 13 years in the future.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Can someone answer this... In last night's episode when Jack was drunk in the hospital looking at the car accident victim's chart he starts having a conversation with the Black Dr who now appears to have Jack's old job. The Dr. notes Jack's been drinking and wants to talk to him... And hear is my question... Jack tells him to go upstairs and ask his father if he's been drinking? Isn't Jack's dad dead!? Could he also be one of the Ocianic 6 somehow?? Or did I just hear that part wrong?

Posted by: cyanucil | February 1, 2008 5:52 PM | Report abuse

The bunny numbers are odd, though.

In the episode where Ben convinces Sawyer he can blow up his heart with an evil implant, he gives a demonstration on a numbered bunny -- No. 8. I thought at the time it was some dopey 8-ball thing.

Then comes this No. 15 bunny.

Nos. 8 and 15. Oceanic Flight 815.

That can't be an accident. Right?

Posted by: cdp | February 1, 2008 6:16 PM | Report abuse

But Ben massacred the original others. And all the babies die. I think if you die on the island, you're dead, but if you arrive with some malady -- Rose's cancer, Locke's paralysis -- or are dead, the restorative powers of the island take over.

Posted by: Dead Alive | February 1, 2008 6:21 PM | Report abuse

The person in the coffin is probably Michael. Has anyone ever seen dead white folks in a blck funereal home?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

cdp - those numbers are also part of the "code" of the island... the numbers pop up everywhere...just pay attention and you'll see them ALL the time.

4 8 15 16 23 42

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 7:20 PM | Report abuse

cyanucil - you didn't hear it wrong. jack told the Dr. and anyone who was listening to go upstairs and get his father. he also told the pharmacist that his father wrote him a perscription (though got angry and left when the pharmacist was going to call his dad to confirm).

so, that being what happened, part of the big question is trying to determine whether Christian Shephard is indeed alive, or if Jack was just being batty. Liz and Jen address some of the "Christian Shephard Mystery" above and in other posts if you want to read up.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 7:26 PM | Report abuse

In the Season 3 Finale, the Bearded Jack in the flash forward wears "skinny" black jeans, a leather jacket, aviators, listens to Nirvana and drives a "grungy" SUV... His physical appearance and overall style is completely different from the Jack we were ever shown in the flash backs before. Yes, Bearded Jack was drunk and has obviously been in a downward spiral of pain killers and emotional peril for some time... but does that make one run out and buy leather and aviators and start dressing like a hipster?

The only reason I mention this is because I was completely struck when seeing "dead" Charlie with Hurley this episode in how closely he resembled Bearded Jack in his physical appearance... He had on almost the exact same outfit.

I know Charlie was more inclided to dress like that in his previous life, but it just seemed strange, especially since the first thing I noticed of Bearded Jack last season was, "whoa, Jack sure has got a new style going in this (what I thought at the time was a) flashback". Now it seems like he and Dead Charlie have something in common.

It makes me wonder if Jack is dead. I'm thinking he would have had to have died sometime between the time he played bball with Hurley and the Season 3 finale. When speaking to Hurley, he seems rather well-adjusted and happy. He's keeping a secret that he has to make sure Hurley won't tell, but he's not particularly weighed down by it.

But now, both he and Charlie are adamant about the survivors going back to the island... maybe they're just both "working" for the island in the afterlife (yea, lots of people saw Jack, but someone else saw Charlie, too).

Anyway, this is all just complete nonsense most likely, but I'm just getting it out there... maybe someone can run with that into a more coherent theory.

Posted by: Lost at Work | February 1, 2008 7:44 PM | Report abuse

also, the skyline reflected in the water in the season 4 poster is los angeles, which is where it would seem all of the Oceanic Six live after rescue.

Posted by: kevin | February 1, 2008 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Kate: "What are you doing?"

Sawyer: "What I'm always doing. Surviving."

Did anyone else think it sounded like Sawyer had an Irish accent when he said "survivin' "? Not that it means anything, it was just funny.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 9:16 PM | Report abuse

My theory on Kate and Jack in the flash forwards from the end of Season 3 is that there future lives are changed by the experiences on the Island. Remember when Kate agrees to meet Jack at the airport she shows up in an expensive car looking sleek and groomed - apparently living an upscale life while Jack's life is tanking (suicidal, alcholic, desparate). In fact, I think the Island reversed the course of their futures. Rather than being in prison for murder, assault, theft, etc. Kate's wealthly and presumably settled down with someone. Jack, the hero, on the other hand, becomes the anti-hero whose life is falling apart.

Not sure about Hurley's flash forward - whether his destiny will be reversed or not.

I can't believe how much time I spend thinking about this show. It's fun speculating on how all these things will twine into the final answers.

Posted by: NW DC | February 1, 2008 9:43 PM | Report abuse

I'm not convinced that Kate made it off the island; in this episode, Hurley sees Charlie, who definately died. In last season's finale Kate didn't interact with anyone other than Jack. What if she was another manifestation of the smoke monster, or just a figment of Jack's imagination?

Posted by: lordofthechaos | February 1, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Another way to look at Jack, Kate, and Hurley back in "civilization" is to consider whether, after returning from the island, they have each become the worst that they could be. The island brought out the best in them and civilization--especially after their island experience--brings out the worst. Jack becomes an addict, like his father. Kate becomes involved in an abusive relationship (remember how she tells Jack at the airport, at the end of last season, that she had "better get back to him," or something like that). And Hurley is back in a mental institution.

Posted by: Chris | February 1, 2008 10:24 PM | Report abuse

When Hurley talks to Charlie in this last episode, I don't think it is likely that Charlie is only a figment of Hurley's imagination. After all, why would Hurley imagine Charlie with a haircut? Hurley only knew Charlie with one hairstyle.

Posted by: Chris | February 1, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one who thought it was odd that when Jack and Hurley were playing HORSE at the mental institution, Hurley makes the comment that Jack does not look good with a beard? Well in Season 3 finale flash forward, Jack was rocking a beard. So perhaps last nights flash forward was actually after Season 3's flash forward? Perhaps Jack finally got his life together, went back to practicing surgery, cleaned up his look and gave up on trying to return the island?

Please give me your input,

Posted by: Mizty | February 2, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

why did Charlie close the door so Desmond couldn't get into the flooding compartment of the underwater hatch, at the end of last season? couldn't he have just gone into the main room of the hatch with Desmond, and jumped into that square of water with Desmond and swam back under and out? was he just so comitted to fulfilling the vision of his death that he didn't think about it? he DID have to close that door from his side, so the rest of the hatch wouldn't flood, but to what purpose?

Posted by: Albert | February 2, 2008 12:47 AM | Report abuse

2 things:

1) When Hurley is sitting in the police station, and the man (Charlie?) swims up to break the window, there is something written on his hand. You can see it just before the window breaks. I think it says "They need help"

2) I'm wondering who Naomi's sister is. My theory is that it's Penny Widmore. If so, then Naomi might be working for her dad against or independent from Penny.

Posted by: LostWatcher | February 2, 2008 1:13 AM | Report abuse

Lost Watcher -

The Charlie-in-the-police-station's hand said: "They Need You". (see screen shot at

I doubt Naomi is Penny's sister. When Charlie talked to Penny on the radio in the station, she didn't look like she had ever heard of a Naomi... I think her reaction would have been different if she had a sister named Naomi.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 2, 2008 1:32 AM | Report abuse

:::Am I the only one who thought it was odd that when Jack and Hurley were playing HORSE at the mental institution, Hurley makes the comment that Jack does not look good with a beard? Well in Season 3 finale flash forward, Jack was rocking a beard. So perhaps last nights flash forward was actually after Season 3's flash forward? Perhaps Jack finally got his life together, went back to practicing surgery, cleaned up his look and gave up on trying to return the island?

Please give me your input::

I think Hurley said something like "Dude, you'd look weird with a beard" not that he had seen Jack with a beard. I'm pretty sure that Hurley's flash forwards occurred before the flash forward in the Season Three finale. My understanding was that the six who'd made it off the island and returned to their normal lives were trying to put whatever happened on the island behind them, presumably because of whatever deal was made to get them off the island. But they are haunted by the experience and the thoughts of those that were left behind and slowly unraveling. I think Hurley is the most sensitive of the bunch, given his experience in the mental institution, and it starts eating away at him first. Jack's just trying to get on with his life and put it all behind him but I have a feeling as we learn more about the remaining Oceanic Six and they cross paths with each other again, the reality of what happened will start tearing them apart until they absolutely must find a way back to the island to help everyone else. So really, Jack's spiral into depression and despair flash forward may be even further into the future than we thought.
At this point, we don't know if Hurley and gang had been off the island for a month, a year... or what. Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Gah, I love this show!

Posted by: apfromal | February 2, 2008 2:04 AM | Report abuse

and it's just occurred to me that Jack reverses his idea/promise about returning to the island because someone ALWAYS goes back. that's a big theme.

you know - in the FF at the end of Season 3, he tells Kate that they have to go back. Kate adamantly says no. Whereas, on the island (also end of Season 3) she is hell-bent on going back down to the beach to rescue Sayid, Jin, and the dentist and Jack firmly doesn't want to let her go. And it ends up being Hurley and Blondie and Sawyer who do return to the separated Losties...

I think that NW DC is on to something about reversals on/off the island. I too was thinking that the island is acting as a point of convergence and inversion, much like the point on a mirror where you touch your own reflection.

And (sorry - all over the place), the reason that babies cannot be born on the island - or, in Aaron's case, be moved off of it - is because they have no previous existence on either side of that convergence/inversion point. this also supports the ideas and theories of two planes and dual realities.

Posted by: just one more | February 2, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

This may have been discussed before as I'm new to this blog, but the convo between Jack and the black doctor in 'the looking glass' fast forward episode; when the doctor questioned Jack about his sobriety, Jack made the statement about 'going upstairs and seeing how drunk his father is and theb come back and talk to him'. Would this indicate Jack's father is indeed alive post rescue?

Posted by: oriolefan2001 | February 2, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

to Albert:

Basically, the writers felt that Charlie's character had run his course. He was an addict who had overcome his problem not once but twice (initial throwing of stash in the fire, and after keeping the statues, he threw them in the ocean without using).

Since there really wasn't a whole lot else for him to do, they decided to provide him with a really heroic death. Yes, he probably could have swam out the window, or even cleared the door and shut it before the grenade went off. But the point was that Charlie accepted his death, as it would benefit Claire, Aaron and all of his friends.

Posted by: Chasmosaur | February 2, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Just reversing my earlier position on who's in the casket.

It's not Locke--he states early on (season 1 or 2) that he's never going to leave the island.

Then again, as Hurley tells Jack: never say never, dude.

Back to Locke. I think while he means the best for everyone--and that he truly believes that--it doesn't mean that he'll actually do the right thing. I think his motivation, emotions and actions--like all the main characters--are often conflicted.

My feeling is that Locke trusts without being objective and this leads him into unfortunate situations. My guess is that, while he tries to lead people to safety, in the end he leads them to danger.

Finally, I disagree that the Island somehow brings out the best and/or worst in people. I don't think Jack displays necessarily great character on the island. While he does show courage and leadership, he also displays weakness, fear and irrational anger. For example, he's got a lot of blood lust for a supposed good guy. He'd clearly wanted to kill Locke, Ben, etc.

It's good to have some coffee and start one's Lost analysis...

Posted by: JP | February 2, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

just one more: "...the reason that babies cannot be born on the island - or, in Aaron's case, be moved off of it - is because they have no previous existence on either side of that convergence/inversion point. this also supports the ideas and theories of two planes and dual realities."

i like that theory!! I'm inclined to think you just solved that for us.

oriolefan - read up a few posts, that's a popular question with an indefinite (but much repeated) answer.

Posted by: Lost at Work | February 2, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

DCer --

Your observation is absolutely brilliant. I think you just solved it.

If you're not a Talmudic scholar already you should be one!

Posted by: Gefaelscht | February 2, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Quick Question/Observation: We now have meet, in person, 3 of the Oceanic 6: Jack, Kate and Hurley. Looking back over the previous 2 episodes, we know that leaving the island and the subsequent cover-up story have exerted a tremendous negative impact on the physical and/or emotional well-being on two of the three characters (Jack and Hurley) and a need to return to the Island. Kate, however, seemed much better adjusted to her return and less guilty than Jack and Hurley. Why do you think there is this difference between Jack and Hurley and Kate?

Posted by: Scott Rolen | February 2, 2008 4:17 PM | Report abuse

I think at first perhaps all the Oceanic six were "OK". We've seen Jack looking well-adjusted but also completely manic with the drive to get back to the island... It might only be a matter of time before we see Kate at the that same stage of desperation. I'm wondering if during this season or soemtime soon they get off the island and the "Oceanic 6" flashforwards become the present time. Then they spend the rest of the series together trying to get back to the island.... and the show ends with them back on the island... or something...

Posted by: Anonymous | February 2, 2008 5:15 PM | Report abuse

If the obituary said that the person in the coffin at the end of last season's episode was survived by a teenage son and, as someone else pointed out, it was black funeral home, then I think that pretty much nails the person in the coffin as being Michael. (Pun not intended.) Kate's reaction "why would I go to his funeral?" makes sense as well.

Posted by: Anthony | February 3, 2008 5:24 AM | Report abuse


Thanks for the great analysis - It's good to have you two back as well as the show. I have one question: What with the new show date, when can we expect to see The Dueling Analyses?

I know how much you enjoy insightful insight into "Lost" so be sure to check out "The Ends and The Means" by Luhks on One of the best essays on "Lost" that I have read in a long time - on par with J Woods and Doc Jensen. BTW, Luhks is not me - I can only aspire to such clarity of thought

Posted by: dre7861 | February 3, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

speaking of the remaining 3 losties that made it off the island - i suppose it's Kate and someone else whom she referred to in near-airport flash-forward of 3d season finale.

and then there is someone else, the 6th lostie who died and whose coffin Jack attended.

Posted by: Tatiana | February 3, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, Planet of the Apes, PLANET OF THE APES!!!!!

Posted by: StephenW | February 3, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

"Quick Question/Observation: Looking back over the previous 2 episodes, we know that leaving the island and the subsequent cover-up story have exerted a tremendous negative impact on the physical and/or emotional well-being on two of the three characters (Jack and Hurley) and a need to return to the Island. Kate, however, seemed much better adjusted to her return and less guilty than Jack and Hurley. Why do you think there is this difference between Jack and Hurley and Kate?"

I think Kate is being Kate: I like her, but she annoys me in that she always runs from unpleasant truths. From the time she killed her stepfather, she has been either lying about what she did, trying to convince others that she was right, or just get off the hook in some way. I can see that she would continue in denial of whatever guilt-enducing event occurred on the island longer than Jack or Hurley.

Posted by: pq | February 4, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Why hasn't anyone raised the possibility of Juliet being a part of the Oceanic 6? It would explain why Kate didn't go to the Funeral, and since we don't know for sure that her sister did survive with the baby (who trusts that Richard video Ben shows her in Mikhail's station?) that could explain why she died alone...

Posted by: DC Lostie | February 4, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

survivin......haha that's hilarious...i thought the same thing

Posted by: working | February 4, 2008 7:15 PM | Report abuse

I think that the Oceanic 6 will be those Losties and Others who wanted desperately to get off the island. Jack, Kate and Hurley all make sense: Jack motives are clear -- he cut the deal with Ben to get off the island. Kate is a fugitive and doesn't want to be recaptured saying as much in earlier episodes. Hurley has the epiphany that all his lottery winnings will be gone and he can be anonymous again. Yet all three return to crippled lives, as the flash forwards have suggested.

The question is, what other three characters are desperate to get off the island, who will likely be left unhappy upon their return to the outside world? Juliet is one (to return to her sister and niece), and Desmond is another (to reunite with Penny). But the sixth person is a mystery to me. The only other character without a critical connection with the island is Sawyer, so perhaps he'd be the sixth? But what is his compulsion to leave the island?

Posted by: LostieLostie | February 5, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

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