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Posted at 10:29 AM ET, 05/ 9/2008

'Lost' Dueling Analysis: Cabin Fever

By Liz Kelly
Lost

In which Jen Chaney and I try -- and possibly fail -- to cover every single significant detail from last night's nutrient rich episode.

Jen: Last night's episode was chock full of all kinds of "Lost"-ian goodness, so much so that it's hard to know where to begin. Do we start with that wacky, repetitive, tree-chopping Horace Goodspeed? Locke stalker Richard Alpert? (I so want to go to Mittelos Science Camp this summer! It'll be a lot like the camp in "Meatballs," right?) The return of Abaddon, who clearly seems to be working in tandem with Alpert?

No, I say we start with the observation that so much of the Locke mythology that's previously been established wove its way back into this episode. Apparently he's always been a backgammon player. The phrase "Don't tell me what I can't do" -- which we heard John say, pointedly, back in season one -- has been a favorite of his for a long time. And, despite the speech given to him by his high school principal, Locke does indeed see himself as a superhero and one whose mission it is to save the island. Also -- and tell me if you agree -- it certainly seems like Locke's real daddy is the ageless, non-birthday-celebrating Richard Alpert.


Ben (Michael Emerson), Hurley (Jorge Garcia) and John (Terry O'Quinn) in search of the elusive Jacob. (ABC)

Liz: I'm glad you veered into talking about John's parentage, because that's actually where I wanted to start. Having Richard Alpert as dad certainly changes John's role in the whole show for me, but did you happen to catch his mother's name? It's Emily, the same as Ben's mom. I don't know that we should start thinking them brothers since we know Ben's mom is dead and Locke's reappeared in an earlier season as Swoosie Kurtz, but that certainly can't be a throw-away detail. Nothing in this show is coincidental.

And as for John's thoughts of himself as a superhero, it would seem he's been helped along in that belief by these drop in visits from Alpert while he was growing up. Alpert seemed to be checking on his son, much as a farmer would on his crops. In fact, the whole thing had a very "Boys From Brazil" feel (that movie posited what would happen if Nazis used Hitler's genes to clone six young boys). But I can't help thinking that Alpert isn't sure of Locke's ability to fulfill his destiny. It's a gamble. And I wonder how many other experiments he's got going simultaneously.

That dichotomy in John's self-image was totally on display in his high school locker, where he had the expected Geronimo Jackson poster right next to the image of Victorian explorer, Sir Richard Burton -- a kind of superman of his own era.

Much more after the jump...

Jen: I actually think you are right about Emily. Swoosie Kurtz wasn't Locke's real mother, remember? She was just conning him, as Cooper was. He thought of them as mom and dad, but they weren't, really. And if I can get all Biblical for just a brief moment, Jacob's son was Benjamin. So I wonder if John is the equivalent of Joseph, the brother who eventually has to embrace Benjamin despite him being a "nasty imp." (I'm quoting "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat" -- the Bible by way of Andrew Lloyd Webber.)

And here's a quick guide to the Geronimo Jackson reference that occurred (say next few words in deep voice) previously on "Lost": Geronimo Jackson.

Liz: Well, thank you Andrew Lloyd for keeping us on point. I'd forgotten that Swoosie was a con. In that case, then, yes -- we are headed for a set up of John vs. Ben as brothers and their similarities were starting to show last night. For instance, when Ben conned Hurley into staying with him on the trip to Jacob's cabin. Ahh, the Bible and brothers. Rich material.

Did you happen to notice, too, that the fire seemed to be back in Locke's belly and eyes last night? This is the John Locke we came to know and love in seasons one and two -- the boar hunting, hatch-opening, unapologetic, cold, calculating man of action. Heeeeee's back. And now he's got a clear mission -- but is it the right one or another red herring?

Jen: Indeed. And Terry O'Quinn played him beautifully, as always. But here is the interesting thing about the mission: John returned to Hurley and Ben and said "He wants us to move the island." But we didn't hear what Christian (or Jacob) actually said to John. We heard his interpretation. And Locke could be dead wrong about what he is actually supposed to do. But I want to save the question. I think we should back up a sec and talk about Horace Goodspeed.

Liz: Agreed. Horace -- the guide -- who first led Ben's parents to the island and now leads Locke & Co. to Jacob's cabin. He was kind of freaking me out last night.

Jen: Understandable. The dude kept repeating himself while his nose bled. When people do that it tends to be freaky. But why was that happening? Seems to me that Horace was in the same mode as Desmond in "The Constant": Trapped between two times and a little confused. I realize that was supposed to be a dream, but I thought that was worth noting.

Liz: Right. Horace seemed to be on an unbreakable loop -- almost reminiscent of "Help me Obi Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope" or Rousseau's 18-minute looping message in season 1.

Jen: Also worth noting: When Locke woke up and Ben was staring at him -- that moment, to me, was when Ben realized he had to pass on the reins of leadership to Locke, aka his bro-bro.

Liz: I don't know that I believe he's passed on the reins of leadership to Locke, and here's why: Ben made a point of congratulating Locke for manipulating Hurley saying something akin to, "You made him think it was his idea." Which made me hyper-aware of Ben's own manipulations -- because he's always running a game. Would Ben really consign himself to eating a candy bar with Hurley and let John take the helm from here on out? No way. Not our Ben Linus.

He's using John. Remember, he's been at this far longer than John and he knows the island, and we have to assume, Jacob.

Jen: Valid point. But I also detected a genuine note of defeatedness in Ben. Perhaps he is still manipulating but I think he now realizes Locke is being spoken to by Jacob, or at least his "associates," like Horace, Christian and apparently the suddenly creepy Claire. Did you notice what Ben said when Locke was digging through the corpses, looking for the map (which, BTW, he found pretty freaking fast)? He said of shooting John, "I should have realized at the time it was pointless." I thought that was the writers covering themselves, knowing full well that one of us dork bloggers would ask, "Wait, if Locke can't die or get sick or whatever, then why would Ben even bother shooting him?"

Liz: Right. But that could've just been Ben's way of making sure. Of crossing one possible path off his list. I don't think Ben is defeated. In fact, I was noting last night that he seems incredibly pulled together for a man who just lost his daughter. One would expect him to be in a daze or weepy or galvanized in some way. But instead, he's happily letting John lead him to Jacob's cabin. Mark my words, he's using John. He may not be ultimately successful, but he at least thinks he's still in control.

Jen: I totally agree that Ben is still manipulating. If we've learned anything by now, it's never to take what that guys says at this word. But I would just ask you to look again -- as I just did two seconds ago -- at some of his unspoken reactions in last night's episode. When Locke pulls that map to the cabin out of dead corpse Horace's pocket, we flash to Ben and the look on his face says, "Oh, snap. He found the map." So I think Ben is still trying to manipulate, but getting worried.

Liz: I'll grant you that. I think maybe we can agree on this: Ben hasn't ceded control yet, but it's possible it may be wrested from him. And there's nothing so dangerous as a deposed dictator.

Let's talk about a few more John-related items before we move on. Namely, the collection of objects Alpert brought the young John. Although all were telling, especially since John failed the test, I zeroed in "The Book of Laws." Found it this morning on Wikipedia. It's a text of the Baha'i faith -- and I could swear Baha'i has surfaced on "Lost" before, though I can't recall where just now. But here's a little more about Baha'i and the book:

The "Book of Laws" is Baha'i's: "charter of the future world civilization."

And, more on Baha'i (from Wikipedia):

Persian religion, Baha'i faith: according to Bahá'í teachings, religious history has unfolded through a series of God's messengers who brought teachings suited for the capacity of the people at their time, and whose fundamental purpose is the same. Bahá'u'lláh is regarded as the most recent, but not final, in a line of messengers that includes Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Krishna, Jesus, Muhammad and others. Bahá'u'lláh's claim to fulfill the eschatological promises of previous scriptures coincides with his mission to establish a firm basis for unity throughout the world, and inaugurate an age of peace and justice, which Bahá'ís expect will inevitably arise.

Jen: That is really interesting. Seems like Alpert was challenging young John to either choose that path or the other path -- the one that interested me most -- which included a knife and a comic book.

Let's take a closer look at that comic. A few things interesting on that cover. First, the notion of a city above another city -- an island that has moved, perhaps? Or that is obscured from view by something surrounding it? I also like the question in the lower right corner: Does it pay to ignore the voice of warning? Seems to me that the path Locke chooses to follow at the end of the episode is the same one he chose as a child -- be the hero, use the knife.

Liz: Agreed, which is why I wondered if he again failed the test -- which would explain Claire and Christian's knowing glance when John asked how to save the island.

The other thing about that comic book cover is the vantage point -- this is a man in an airplane looking out at the clouds. And it just doesn't get "Lost"-ier than that.

Jen: As to Locke's question -- that is not at all what I thought Christian was trying to get him to ask. Personally, I wanted him to ask, "Who is Jacob?" Because enough already. I want to see that freak.

Liz: Jacob, who seems to have dominion over the spirits of the dead. Yeah, John clearly asked the wrong question.

Jen: And bad things will happen as a result.

Jen: But on to the return of Mr. Abaddon. I knew that was him before they showed his face. I know Lance Reddick's voice anywhere.

Liz: Trying to out-dork me, eh? I knew, too. It was telegraphed pretty clearly that the orderly was someone significant.

Is he, though, on the same team as Richard Alpert? Or another? Is there a tug of war going on over John's soul, or powers, or are Abaddon and Alpert merely two small parts of one entity? They both seem to be leading him to the island, but could it be for different reasons? We assume Abaddon is aligned with Penny's father, Charles Widmore. But is Alpert -- who we can associate with Mittelos Bioscience? I'm getting fuzzy, Jen -- does Mittelos have any tie to Widmore?

Jen: Exactly: Who is Abaddon working for, the Mittelos team or the Widmore team? A great line from Abaddon: "Oh, I'm more than just an orderly."

Liz: One of many good lines last night. Me, I was partial to Ben's: "There are consequences to being chosen, John. Destiny is a fickle bitch."

Jen: That was good. Actually, my real favorite was Locke's reference to Dharma as the people that make that ranch dressing Hurley likes so much.

Anyhoo, Mittelos. The company may be connected to the former president of the Hanso Foundation, who we know helped fund the Dharma Initiative, as did Widmore Industries. So at some point, it would seem, these entities were aligned but eventually ruptured for some reason.

Liz: Right -- Mittelos is the front organization for the rogue Thomas Mittelwerk. Thanks for the memory jog.

Jen: Ian Cusick promised us more shenanigans on the freighter, and by God he delivered.

For starters, Keamy still can't kill Michael. Michael is "Unbreakable" ... at least for now.

Liz: Right -- and Michael found a friend in Frank (aka Lawnmower Man). Sayid has gone rogue. All good and promise more to come. But I find my brain recoiling from trying to work out the time continuum differences apparent in the killing of the doctor this week and his washing up on shore last week.

Jen: The island must be ahead of the time on the freighter, right? Otherwise they wouldn't know that doc was going to die in advance. So slitting his throat was fulfilling destiny, really, fickle bee-atch that she is.

Liz: So maybe that's a detail we just file away for now.

Jen: Then there was this whole biz of the second protocol.

Liz: Yes, with its Dharma logo cover sheet. I'm assuming this protocol amounts to annihilating the island. But, riddle me this -- if Keamy and co. make it to the island and John moves it, won't Keamy and co. still be on the island?

Jen: Right -- but this idea that Ben knows that is what is going to happen and is trying to get to a safe place, which taps right into the notion that he is still being Mr. Manipulator.

And John is not going to move the island. At least I don't think so.

Liz: Well, at least not any time soon.

Jen: I think the better question is how someone -- presumably Widmore, but who knows? -- knows to stay a step ahead of Ben and everyone else on the freighter. And why is Keamy the only guy to trust with this info?

Liz: Right. That hints at a larger importance for Keamy, who seems to have some sense of urgency about all of this and almost a vendetta against Ben and the island.

Jen: Also want to point out something about Desmond. He decided to stay back (which, BTW, I think means he is going to die. I don't like him not being with Sayid somehow). Anyway, no one on the freighter seemed to be aware he was there. The scenes where he stayed behind were shot pointedly to emphasize the fact that he was off to the side, observing and not speaking to anyone.

Liz: I don't know that Desmond's staying back sets him up for death -- the producers would have to be CRAZY to kill off the winner of "Lost" Madness -- but it does place him well for keeping track of the remaining freighter crew and possibly helping Michael. And we do know that the captain saw and spoke to him when he led Des and Sayid to the Zodiac, right?

Jen: Good point. Let's look on the bright side. I don't want Des to die either.

Liz: So, on to next week -- Jack seems to be back to his boisterous self and ready to follow the sat phone signal to the copter. We're gearing up for battle. It's very reminiscent of the close of season 1 when the then mysterious Others were rumored to be attacking. Here's official promo:

"There's No Place Like Home," Part 1 - The face-off between the survivors and the freighter people begins.

Jen: Yes -- and isn't next week's ep the one with the cast of thousands? The press release had Hurley's parents in the cast list (Cheech Marin?) and a bunch of other folks.

Liz: Right... here's the big honking list of guest stars:

Guest starring are L. Scott Caldwell as Rose, Nestor Carbonell as Richard Alpert, Jeremy Davies as Daniel Faraday, Ken Leung as Miles Straume, Rebecca Mader as Charlotte Lewis, Jeff Fahey as Frank Lapidus, Kevin Durand as Keamy, Anthony Azizi as Omar, Andrea Gabriel as Noor "Nadia" Abed Jaseem, Byron Chung as Mr. Paik, June Kyoko Lu as Mrs. Paik, Lillian Hurst as Carmen Reyes, Cheech Marin as David Reyes, Veronica Hamel as Margo Shephard, Michelle Forbes as Karen Decker, Susan Duerden as Carole Littleton and Noah Craft as Hendricks.

Jen: Man, I feel like we've only scratched the surface today. Thank God we have a chat at 2 p.m. that allows us to discuss further.

Liz: See you then!

By Liz Kelly  | May 9, 2008; 10:29 AM ET
Categories:  Lost  
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Comments

Guys - Emily was part of the "let's steal John Locke's kidney" con, but she IS his biological mother. Otherwise, Anthony Cooper (or whatever his name was) wouldn't have needed *Locke's* kidney. It was a familial donation he was after, remember?

Besides, why would they pick a young actress who looks like a young Swoozie Kurtz if she wasn't his biological mother? Kind of like picking Tanya Raymonde because she looks a lot like Mira Furlan (that would be Alex and Rousseau for the less up on the cast names ;) ).

Posted by: Chasmosaur | May 9, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

That episode was a doozey. I was wondering about that book on the Freighter--that told Keamey "Where Ben would go next." What the heck was that?

Also--Claire at the end--super creepy smile. That's all I've got to say.

Posted by: PC | May 9, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Also-didn't they indicate that Richard Alpert was NOT Locke's father? When he was looking through the glass at baby Locke, the mother is asked if "that's the father," by the nurse, but she responds that she has no idea who he is. And since, as the first poster indicated, Swoosie Kurtz is in fact Locke's biological mom, you would have thought she'd have recognized Alpert when he came to visit Locke and make him take that test- there does not seem to be any indication that she recognized him.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 9, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Claire had a band aid on her forehead just like she did after the car accident with her mom, when she first met Christian...
I haven't seen that episode since it aired, but didn't Claire want nothing to do with Christian at the time? Now they are cabin buddies?

Posted by: Lady_Jane | May 9, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

The cover of the comic reminds me of the season 4 promos we saw earlier this year, with the island above and the Los Angeles skyline reflected below. Maybe just a coincidence, but interesting.

Posted by: julia | May 9, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Presenting objects and asking a child to choose which ones belonged to him before is part of the process in selecting the Dalai Lama. The High Lamas present the child they believe is the reincarnation and present him with a group of items (some that belonged to the previous Dalai Lama) to see if he chooses the items previously owned. So I agree that Alpert and his group were trying to find their next ruler/king. I don't think he is Locke's dad, though. Locke's father was his real father; hence, the kidney donation

Posted by: LitMajor | May 9, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I don't think Locke's Emily is supposed to be Ben's mom too, and I don't think Alpert is supposed to be his papa, he's just an interested party in young Locke's development. But about the kidney - you don't need to get a kidney from a family member, it just needs to be compatible to your blood type/body size. Wouldn't really make sense why Cooper would want to randomly scam Locke if he wasn't his papa. But he did a lot of things for weird reasons, so who knows.

PS I think Claire's dead.

Posted by: U street girl | May 9, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

My theory on creepy Claire is that she actually died in the explosion of the house and didn't realize it until her dad came to get her.

As for the items Alpert brought to young John, I kind of felt like he was supposed to pick the comic book under the knife., like Alpert was trying to see if young John could see past the red herring.

Posted by: jes | May 9, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

You missed one of my favorite lines from Hurley when he hands water to Locke- "digging through dead bodies takes a lot out of a guy."

Posted by: Osteph | May 9, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

::Claire had a band aid on her forehead just like she did after the car accident with her mom, when she first met Christian...
I haven't seen that episode since it aired, but didn't Claire want nothing to do with Christian at the time? Now they are cabin buddies? ::

Re: Creepy Claire, Christian and the cabin. I know this theory has been mentioned elsewhere (I can't remember if anyone brought it up here) but I think Claire is already dead. That is why she is hanging out with Christian now, because they have something in common. Earlier in the season, when Hurley stumbled upon the cabin and saw the eyeball staring back at him (i.e. Charlie's eyeball), I told my husband that I think Jacob's cabin is where the dead people go to hang out. Because we saw what appeared to be Christian hanging out in the rocker before.
I just think something has happened to Claire because it doesn't make sense for her to abandon Aaron to go hang out in a creepy cabin with her estranged dad. And they told Locke that Aaron was where he was supposed to be.
Anyway, I don't think all the folks who have died will likely appear again on the island but something to think about.
For example, I sure hope Nikki and Paulo don't get an invite to Jacob's house party.

For the record, I hope something really, really bad happens to Keamy because that guy is pure evil.

Posted by: apfromal | May 9, 2008 12:23 PM | Report abuse

At what point was it explained the Richard Alpert was Locke's father? His mother Emily (older version played by Swoosie Kurtz who is a redhead just like the actress playing the younger version--so obviously meant to be the same person in addition to sharing the same name) was dating some older guy that her mother didn't approve of. When Richard showed up at the hospital, the nurse asked her mother if that was the father and she answered she didn't know who he was. It certainly seemed like Emily's mom had some contact with the older guy she was dating to have disapproved of her daughter dating him.

And if Kevin Tighe's character WASN'T Locke's real father, how is it that Locke was a perfect kidney donor for him? How would the con man have known that Locke was a perfect donor for him if he wasn't his biological relative?

I think you guys are way off base here, but at least you've finally started spelling "Keamy" right...

Posted by: Stella | May 9, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Interesting comment over among Doc Jensen's comments. The test that Batmanuel - I mean, Richard Alpert - put to 5-year-old John is the same test applied to those seeking the new Dhali Lama, the reincarnation of previous dhali lamas and I believe the Buddha himself.

Posted by: John | May 9, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Do'h! Was busy typing and missed U Street Girl and Jes' comments about Claire.

Posted by: apfromal | May 9, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

hey guys.. do you really think richard is Locke's dad? Emily's mom actually said "I dont know who he is" and I took it literally coz she definitely knew who Emily was seeing earlier. It could just be that our Alpert guy started watching out for John Locke since his birth and isnt really his dad.

Posted by: TheTruckGuy | May 9, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Now good old Doc Jensen has the Book of Laws as an Aleister Crowley book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_the_Law

Doc's Column this week:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20198844,00.html

Posted by: Bored @ work | May 9, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

I don't buy the Albert = Locke's father idea either. The entire point of the kidney transplant is that there has to be a genetic match for the organ to be accepted.

But an awesome episode! Thanks for the discussion!

Posted by: Bob | May 9, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

A couple of points. I thought the show was unbelievably obvious last night re: Keamy. W see him at the end of the hall, getting suited up, and they focus on the box on his bicep. So then there was no need later in the confrontation with the captain to so pointedly show it off. It was an odd note as LOST is usually far more subtle than that.

Second, I wonder if the island itself is "alive." That is, it is not really an island as we know it, but rather a creature that resembles an island? There was an ealry X-men comic about such a creature, that you can read about here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakoa

If the island is a "thing" an alien, a lot of what has gone on could be explained. Smoky is the immune system, the visions of things is just the island's own consciousness manifesting in an attempt to communicate with the Losties. "Jacob" would then be a representation of the "island."

Thirdly, remember when The Others were uber-competent and scary? That there did not seem to be anything they could not do? Where are they, and why are they not competent enough to handle Keamy and what appears to be 5 guys?

Posted by: BDL | May 9, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

And we've seen Ben's mom Emily in flashbacks and she looks nothing like Locke's mom Emily. There may be a connection between Locke and Ben, but it's not having the same mom.

Posted by: ah | May 9, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

"you would have thought she'd have recognized Alpert when he came to visit Locke and make him take that test"

I believe that was a foster-mom.

Posted by: mark | May 9, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Locke was hit by a car in the womb and was the "youngest premie (sp?) to survive in this hospital." As in, the man is like Michael and can't die. Don't you think that Richard is interested in Locke for that reason?

Posted by: Osteph | May 9, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

I'm not claiming to be a kidney transplant expert at all, but my friend wikipedia tells me you don't have to be a genetic match to be a kidney donor, it helps, but is not necessary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidney_transplant

Posted by: U street girl | May 9, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Of course we all know Abaddon was the orderly. Lance Reddick was in the opening credits and they first showed his hands on the wheelchair - the hands of a black man. I had no doubt it was Abaddon.

Doc Jensen has a very heavy analysis today.

Are these last few episodes making your head hurt? There is just SO MUCH information jam-packed into each ep.

Posted by: Hoolia | May 9, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

OK, here's a wacky thought. Locke's been instructed to move the island. He could move it in space, in time, or both. Someone (I think over at EW) has posited that this will create a rupture in the time/space continuum that will create an alternate reality where the Oceanic 815 remains on the ocean's bottom are real, not faked. So, what if in moving the island, Locke moves it out of the path of the plane, so there's no island for 815 to crash on, sending everyone to a watery doom?

Posted by: John | May 9, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

And one more random thought. Did no one think it odd that the one question Locke was supposed to ask wasn't, how do I save the people on this island, but how do I save the island [itself]?

Posted by: John | May 9, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

One last thought: Des was left back on the freighter for, among other reasons noted, narrative reasons. You need to see events through an islander's eyes, so Des has to stay back to show us what happens to the doctor and the captain. One of the show's biggest blunders was the end-of-season switch from the island to the Antarctic station and then to Penny's phone. I thought they really screwed things up bigtime with that, and I suspect others thought so, too.

Posted by: John | May 9, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

poss. spoiler/future speculation:

I think John and others do end up moving the island, it explains the Oceanic 6 and the ones left behind. Sayid is off to rescue them and first load brings back Jack (because of appendicitis/stitches), Aaron because the island's getting violent and let's get him to safety first and bring Claire when we find her (would be the thinking), Kate to take care of Aaron, and Sun because Jin is determined she'll be on the first load out -- then perhaps he plans to follow. I don't know why Hugo. The problem is the island moves after they leave it and they can't find the island again to rescue the rest. Thus, future Jack's despair at needing to go back to "save" the others. Remember Keamy and company are still on the Island in this scenario.

Posted by: perhaps | May 9, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Keamy seemed to have some sort of bomb device attached to his arm...it could be that device requires time in some element to function. When he gets to the island he's a day in the future so the time function of the bomb device is disabled thereby giving the island folks extra time to get off the island or move it if you're Locke.

Posted by: Maybe... | May 9, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

I missed the first 15 minutes because of thunderstorms, tornado warnings and a leaking basement, but between Doc Jensen & you all, I think I've caught on to what went on.

Thanks to all of you for your analysis. I'm a real Lost fan, but your capacity for seeing the tiny details is awe-inspiring. I was disappointed in Claire's creepiness and now that we know for (pretty much) sure she's not the one to raise Aaron and Kate isn't just a temporary caretaker, what does it mean?

I'd love to sit in on a Lost writers writing session. I see them with all these random props before them like jigsaw pieces, fitting them carefully together.

Posted by: m.a.t. | May 9, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Kidney matches can definitely be made between non-related individuals. Wouldn't it be an even more elaborate con if Anthony Cooper was NOT Locke's father. Plus we have to remember that Anthony Cooper just happened to be the con man involved in Sawyers pre-island life.

Posted by: Maybe... | May 9, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Forgot something: Emily was hit by a car - accident? About as likely as Juliet's husband getting hit by a bus was an accident.

Posted by: m.a.t. | May 9, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

If "Jacob's cabin" is the place where dead people go, what do we make of the fact that, when we saw "Jacob" for the first time last season, many people thought it looked like Locke? Is he dead? In some other category altogether (not really dead, not really alive)?

Posted by: Ivy | May 9, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Goddamn tornado warnings ruined it. They should have to rerun the show after so many senseless interruptions.

Posted by: uck | May 9, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Must be the island's magical juju allowed that map to be perfectly preserved in the pocket of a corpse exposed to the elements for twelve years, eh? The corpses are pretty well preserved as well, considering the tropical environment.

Posted by: Admiral Snarlgren | May 9, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Locke wasn't supposed to pick up the knife because it was a sign of that he still had some aggression issues to work out first...his daddy issues, his abandonment issues, his failed adventurer issues...and picking the knife just showed that he wasn't ready to go to the island yet...

Posted by: Walt's brother | May 9, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Watch it on ABC.com, I missed it last night and woke up extra early to catch up. I can imagine, though, that the tornado warnings would have been super frustrating and probably drove me up the wall. Especially with this week's very good, high tension episode.

Posted by: U street girl | May 9, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

I know Emily's mother made a comment about adoption but do we know if Locke was put up for adoption or foster care. Was the woman present when Richard gave Locke the test Emily or an adopted mother. If he was adopted why is his name still Locke? We know Emily's mother's name was Locke as well.

Posted by: Woodbridge | May 9, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Keamy has bumped Sawyer down on the sexy tough guy list...oh to be the assistant bomb strapper-on guy...

Posted by: Merc's need love too | May 9, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

RE: Locke failing again because he still has a penchant for knives. He very poignantly put the knife down before entering the cabin...might this vindicate him.

Posted by: Maybe... | May 9, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

What perhaps@12:45 said, exactly. That's how I would call this season's finale. The O6 get off the Island at the last minute and Locke succeeds in "moving" the place somehow. Season 5 will be mostly off-Island with the O6 looking for a way to find the Island and go back.

I, too, have a bad feeling about Des staying behind on the freighter. Fickle b**tch, indeed!

Posted by: Not Shlomo | May 9, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

I too feel really anxious about Des staying on the freighter, brutha, stay with Sayid and be safe, you have no friends on the freighter..

I'm hoping that the writers have the sense to not kill off the most beloved character in the series, but hey, it's Lost...

Posted by: U street girl | May 9, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Were the scenes with John growing up part of a flashback, or was Richard Alpert time traveling trying to find John at the right moment in his life?

Posted by: Odenton, MD | May 9, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

I agree that Claire is dead. I think something that Sawyer said during the preview for next week supports that notion-"We lost Claire" Yeah, she could be lost as in missing, but I interpreted it as she's dead.

Just my two cents...

Posted by: KG | May 9, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Everyone is assuming that moving the island seems to mean physically moving it. Could it be that they are to move the island not geographically but through time?

Posted by: johnjams | May 9, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

1. I think Claire might be dead. She seemed eerily jolly and carefree given the circumstances, and she seemed to share some kind of all-knowingness with Christian that was creepy.

2. No way Desmond is going to die. Killing the Penny-Desmond storyline would be ratings suicide. Plus, last week's ep really seemed to suggest that there's a lot more in store for our Des, like protecting Penny from Ben.

Awesome episode, though.

Posted by: 12345 | May 9, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

moving the island could also mean moving the 'safe' coordinates.

Posted by: Odenton, MD | May 9, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

So - if the island can be moved in time, that would explain the delay that Faraday has discovered. Meaning that someone has already moved the island once before so that it's not quite in sync with the outside world. Question is - who moved it before? Widmore? Ben? Jacob? The pirates? Dharma Initiative? How does one move an entire island?

Are later seasons going to be about re-finding the island and resucing the non-oceanic-6 losties?

Posted by: So many questions | May 9, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

It makes more sense that Cooper is Locke's bio-dad because of the need for compatibility, and how would Cooper know Locke would be a compatible donor. And because Cooper is a con man, and the whole thing was a con, there was no need for him to use Locke's actual mom, only someone claiming to be her. Indeed, it would be too risky to use a real mom because she might not go through with the con.

Hence, both Emilys are the same. Besides, why should the writers create the coincidence? Interesting note is that Aaron's mom shares the same name (in real life).

Besides, it is my understanding that one premature birth predisposes a mother for another premature birth. Remember, Ben was premature as well.

The question is -- is Claire dead? Did she actually die in the explosion?

Posted by: Bender | May 9, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

If Claire is dead, when did she die? Everyone thought she survived the exploding house and just wandered into the jungle. If she was just dead, she wouldn't have been seen after the house exploded.

Posted by: 77 | May 9, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

But one question definitively answered --

Christian Shepherd clearly said that he is NOT Jacob.

And why should Michael be kill-proof while others apparently are able to die?

Posted by: Bender | May 9, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

I think Claire died when she was sleeping in the jungle and Christian came to her. She died of the injuries she sustained from the blast (my guess, internal bleeding or something).

Posted by: U street girl | May 9, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Right-o johnjams. "Moving" the Island doesn't necessarily mean geographically. The Island was virtually hidden to the world until Charlie killed the device jamming Rousseau's distress call. If the Island's temporal and/or spacial coordinates can be altered (maybe by another electromagnetic blast), it would become invisible again.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 9, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Miles seemed somewhat surprised to see Claire. Or, rather, that everyone else saw her. There is good reason to believe she was killed in the explosion and merely became one of the walking apparitions thereafter.

Posted by: Bender | May 9, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

whoops, missed this one...

OK, here's a wacky thought. Locke's been instructed to move the island. He could move it in space, in time, or both. Someone (I think over at EW) has posited that this will create a rupture in the time/space continuum that will create an alternate reality where the Oceanic 815 remains on the ocean's bottom are real, not faked. So, what if in moving the island, Locke moves it out of the path of the plane, so there's no island for 815 to crash on, sending everyone to a watery doom?

We already know there is some disconnect between the present on the freighter and the present on the island, i think that to move the island through time would be more in keeping with what we know about the island. If this is the case, does the island need some sort of "constant" of its own? This would help explain why the O6 (or almost anyone not named Widmore) might not be able to find the island.

Posted by: johnjams | May 9, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

And even though the island is "moved" Ben some still seem to be able to come & go.

Posted by: Bored @ work | May 9, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Woodbridge: Locke's stated in previous episodes and seasons that he was raised in foster care. I had no doubt that the woman at the house was his foster mother. I also have no doubt that the Emily giving birth was the same Emily as Swoozie Kurtz.

Definitely picked up on the "Locke can't die like Michael can't die" thing. The thought that popped into my head is "what does Michael need to accomplish in order to die?" Is it moving the island? Killing the people on the boat per Tom (though they seem to be doing that themselves).

Claire's presence bothered me in the style of Damien from The Omen, Carole Anne in Poltergeist and Linda Blair's role in the Exorcist. She's definitely dead....and creepy.

For a good laugh, I suggest y'all check out the Red and Rover cartoon from yesterday's Post. It makes reference to Lost and an "Island that has weird magnetic properties that manipulate time and space, thereby making it virtually invisible to the outside world."

Posted by: Em | May 9, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

If Claire's dead, then I'm confused by Charlie/Hurley's message to Jack that he (Jack) was "not supposed to raise him." I assumed they were referring to Aaron. But Christian and Claire said in Jacob's cabin that the baby was "in the right place."

Posted by: Not Shlomo | May 9, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Not Shlomo - the baby was "in the right place" with Sawyer on the island when Christian and Claire said that. Not with Jack off the island.

Posted by: Catherine | May 9, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

"The right place" for Aaron might mean with Kate, but not with Jack. Or, geographically, on the beach, where he is now, but not necessarily off the island.

Also, Bored@work, Ben can still come and go because he knows where John (or he) "moved" it. Maybe Jack's later effort to "find" the island will turn on finding Ben and trying to make him reveal it. (Good luck with that...)

Posted by: jane | May 9, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

So, Christian said that Aaron is "Where he should be."

At the time of this comment, can't we assume that Aaron is in the arms of Sawyer?

Has anyone else noticed Sawyer's affectionate and protective comments and actions toward Claire and baby in the last few episodes?

And we've also gotten hints in future flashes, such as the finale of season 3, that Kate is with someone else when she tells a despondent Jack, "I have to get back to him before he knows I'm out." (or something like that)

Maybe Sawyer, Kate and Aaron end up making the happy family at the end of this series, if somehow we can get Sawyer secretly off the island....

Posted by: Lost at work | May 9, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

When Richard asked Locke to pick an object that belonged to him, it looked much more to me like the Buddhist monks who are always looking for a reincarnation of Buddha. They place objects in front of a baby (one of which belonged to Buddha) and the baby is supposed to pick which one "Already belongs" to him. This seems much more relevant than the Ba'hai faith theory.

Posted by: Kristina | May 9, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

I think Locke was definitely with a foster-family when Alpert (Batmanuel!) first came to visit, both because the woman looked nothing like teenage mom Emily and also because of the way she acted towards Locke-she didn't treat him like he was her own son. At this point, I also don't think Locke's mom Emily and Ben's mom Emily are the same but it is very interesting they share a name and it can't be coincidence.

Re: Claire- she has to be dead though I agree that I'm not sure when she died-- either in the explosion or from her injuries afterwards. Remember, Miles has a special connection with the dead, so that could explain any odd looks he may give to her. I'm wondering if she and Christian will meet up with Charlie at some point.

I also think Aaron is where he is supposed to be-- with Sawyer, at that moment in time. Perhaps Sawyer is supposed to care for him but the message not clear until after Aaron is rescued. Maybe the errand Kate has to run for Sawyer is related to all this?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 9, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

tried to post this over at the chat, but having issues:

Two things:

1) just read this on lostpedia:

"Lost" adds hours ABC extends final two seasons By James Hibberd, Hollywood Reporter
05/09/2008 - ABC has found more hours for the final two seasons of "Lost." The 2009 and 2010 editions of the hit drama will be 17 hours each -- not 16 as previously planned.

2) RE: weather updated--I have to commend Channel 7 for NOT breaking into LOST with a live update, like stations used to do in the past. They actually interrupted a commercial break for a live update with Doug Hill. I specifically said to my husband, "Wow! You NEVER see that!" Interrupting commercials (and not the actual show) with weather events was something I used to dream about.

Posted by: psujedi | May 9, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

One interesting thing that I noticed from "Cabin Fever" was that the Tales of Myster comic was very similar to the Lost Title screen that shows during commercials. It has says "LOST" and below is the Island that we all know and love, but the reflection of the Island in the water isn't an Island at all, it is a city. The cover of Tales of Myster comic is quite strikingly similar.

Posted by: Troy in AK | May 9, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Re Locke's choice of "objects" - what did you all think was in the glass bottle? The grains were too large to be sand or the mystery dust around Jacob's cabin. I vote for sesame seeds and that the symbolism was "Open, Sesame!" - or that Locke had the ability to "unlock" the mysteries of the Island.

The only way I see Locke and Ben as brothers are in the sense of Biblical Jacob being the father of the 12 Tribes. If Alpert was running experiments on children - then rather than the suggested 6 children of Hitler - there might be even more - 12 - or somehow, maybe we are all "brothas" as Desmond likes to remind us.

To me, Locke and Ben represent free will vs. destiny. Rather than saying that Locke consistently chooses "wrong" - let's say he uses his free will to choose, period. He doesn't blindly accept fate/destiny in a Calvinistic sense.

Like his philosopher namesake, experience has shaped his mind. Philosopher Locke wrote "the little and almost insensible impressions on our tender infancies have very important and lasting consequences." Lost Locke's "tender infancy" was revealed to us as a series of abandonments and physical challenges.

I also like the idea that the empty cabin (empty in the sense that Christian and Claire are both "ghosts" of sorts) is a parallel to Philosopher Locke's "empty cabinet" of the mind. Thus, Locke's conclusion that me must move the island - is more likely one that he came to on his on on reflecting in the cabin - rather than one specifically laid out to him by Jacob.

Posted by: Jean | May 9, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Absolutely Claire is dead. She wouldn't be sitting there, WITHOUT AARON, all calm and spooky, any other way.

johnjams, good theory on moving the island...

Posted by: Sam888 | May 9, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I thought that Alpert wanted/expected Locke to choose the bottle and that it contained sand from the island, thereby proving that Locke has always had a connection to the island.

Posted by: Gigi | May 9, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad others have noted that Locke's Emily and Ben's Emily are definitely not one and the same. Older Emily Annabeth Locke from Locke's earlier flashback is really Emily Locke-- I recall seeing a file on her from Santa Rosa mental institution that included her name and photo, which would confirm who she is (right?).

(Also, Locke retained her last name because he was raised in a foster home, as he explained himself in season one or two. You only take on the new name if you're adopted.)

But I have been noticing lately that there have been lots of overlapping and similar names on Lost, which happens frequently in real life but not frequently in fictional stories. Not just the Emilys you mentioned, but Charlie Pace/Charles Widmore/Charlotte Malkin/Charlotte Lewis; Danielle Rousseau/Daniel Faraday; Richard Alpert/Richard Malkin; and many more, I'm sure. Is there significance to any of these, do you think?

Posted by: elizabeth | May 9, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad others have noted that Locke's Emily and Ben's Emily are definitely not one and the same. Older Emily Annabeth Locke from Locke's earlier flashback is really Emily Locke-- I recall seeing a file on her from Santa Rosa mental institution that included her name and photo, which would confirm who she is (right?).

(Also, Locke retained her last name because he was raised in a foster home, as he explained himself in season one or two. You only take on the new name if you're adopted.)

But I have been noticing lately that there have been lots of overlapping and similar names on Lost, which happens frequently in real life but not frequently in fictional stories. Not just the Emilys you mentioned, but Charlie Pace/Charles Widmore/Charlotte Malkin/Charlotte Lewis; Danielle Rousseau/Daniel Faraday; Richard Alpert/Richard Malkin; and many more, I'm sure. Is there significance to any of these, do you think?

Posted by: elizabeth | May 9, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Seems a lot of people here took Locke's grandma at her word when she said she had no idea who that man was. I thought she most definitely knew who he was, but didn't want to explain to the nurse.

Posted by: Grandma | May 9, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

when did she die? if she died in the explosion, why was she walking around with sawyer and miles. why did sawyer "see" her as alive? if she died in the middle of the night during last nights ep, how did she get out into the jungle? she would have had to trek out to the jungle with aaron and then die. but her body was not near aaron when sawyer found him.

Posted by: yes claire is dead, but... | May 9, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Catherine, I have to agree with Not Shlomo. The ONLY person who can raise Aaron is Claire. The psychic in Australia specifically explained this to Claire in Season 1 episode 10, "Raised by Another." Everyone on this list should watch this episode again -- everything which happened in Claire's lucid dream is now coming true.

The real mystery here is, why would Claire and Christian say Aaron is in the right place when it is quite clear that Claire MUST be the one to raise her baby? Not Sawyer, not Kate -- Claire.

I disagree with two of Liz and Jen's conclusions:

1. There is no evidence to support the idea that Richard is Locke's father. Just because he's around doesn't mean that he fathered Locke, and it's too much of a stretch to believe that Locke could have gone through a kidney transplant with the original Sawyer without having someone realize that Sawyer was not Locke's dad. You guys are reading too much into Richard's presence. Remember that Abadon also showed up to meet Locke after his injury. The more interesting point, which everyone seems to have missed, is that Richard has definitely shown himself to be ageless.

2. Locke DID ask the right question. His job is to save the island. That is why he was brought to the island, and that's why his paralysis is cured. Locke has always been focused on the secrets of the island, sometimes at the expense of the 815 survivors. However, as Locke explained, he is NOT Ben.

3. Ben hasn't given up being manipulative yet, but he has clearly accepted the fact that he is no longer Jacob's favorite. Now we understand why Ben was so callous when Alex was being held at gunpoint -- he honestly believed that there was no way the island would allow Alex to be killed. He knows that Locke has taken over his privileged position -- for now.

I am just so glad to see Locke being returned to his former stature as we saw him in season 1 and 2. As far as I'm concerned, Locke is The Man...

Posted by: Steve | May 9, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Here's a slight problem with the Baha'i Faith subplot you've mentioned. The "Kitab-i-Aqdas" or "Most Holy Book" wasn't translated into English until 1992. Additionally, no edition of the Kitab-i-Aqdas has the title "Book of Laws". Maybe the "Book Of Laws" prop was not intended to be a reference to the Baha'i Faith?

Generally I don't recommend the Baha'i Faith if you're looking to add an esoteric subplot to your script. It's just too practical and down-to-earth. It sounds all exotic until you read stuff like Baha'is advocate universal education, equality of sexes, harmony of science and religion and the oneness of mankind. And that Baha'u'llah gave this guidance before the United States fought the civil war. Your local Baha'i community is more likely involved in virtues based spiritual education of children and volunteering in a food bank than discussing mystical poetry.

- Jeff

PS: Here's a journalistic style guide for Baha'i terms: http://bwns.org/media-information/style-guide/

Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse


Earlier Episodes indicate that Locke was born in 1956. However, Emily was dancing to Buddy Holly's "Everyday" just prior to Locke's birth. That single was released 9/20/57, meaning that Locke could not have been born before that. So what's the deal:

a) Script continuity screwup;
b) Somebody's lying; or
c) Wrinkle in the time/space continuum?

Posted by: Peggy Sue | May 9, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

"Catherine, I have to agree with Not Shlomo. The ONLY person who can raise Aaron is Claire. The psychic in Australia specifically explained this to Claire in Season 1 episode 10, "Raised by Another." Everyone on this list should watch this episode again -- everything which happened in Claire's lucid dream is now coming true. Posted by: Steve | May 9, 2008 4:32 PM "

I'm thinking about that a bit more and wonder, are we sure that the pyschic said that Aaron should not be raised by "another" or by "an other"? I'm apt to believe the last selection. Also I think Claire is as dead as doornail- that was the very first impression I got of her when I saw her in Jacob's cabin w/Christian who we know is dead. Whether she died in the middle of the night from injuries sustained during the explosion or earlier, there is no way she would be that relaxed and calm WITHOUT Aaron if she were alive.

Also agree that Richard Alpert is not Locke's dad- I think Alpert as well as Abbaddon time traveled to Locke during his youth because they wanted to ensure he got to the island. Why they want this other than the fact that Lock is deemed special is beyond me at this point. I do think that Alpert and Abbadon represent opposing forces (good v.evil?) however and want Locke for different reasons.

Posted by: plamar1031 | May 9, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

There's no telling what that "Book of Laws" is supposed to be. I doubt the writers had Baha'i in mind, since they didn't use the name. But I do recall old-time SF writers (Fritz Leiber, L. Sprague deCamp & Fletcher Pratt, for example) gratuitously referencing Baha'i because they thought it would sound exotic and/or weird to their readers.

Posted by: CS | May 9, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

I agree with others here that the "Book of Laws" mentioned on Lost is almost certainly not a reference to the Baha'i Faith. There is no Baha'i sacred scripture with the title "Book of Laws." The scripture Kitab-i-Aqdas (Most Holy Book) is a main text of the Baha'i canon in which many of the Baha'i "laws" are encoded. But it is not entitled "Book of Laws."

Posted by: BC | May 9, 2008 5:53 PM | Report abuse

I think you're off base with Locke and his question in the cabin. I think he passed the test with flying colors, and that's what Claire's look was about. The most important question should have been "how can I save my friends", but he instead asked "how can I save the island". He put the island ahead of everyone else, so he passed. He has been groomed successfully and is now ready to take over.

Posted by: Daniel | May 9, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse

> Liz: ....Yeah, John clearly asked the wrong question.
> Jen: And bad things will happen as a result.

Indeed. This appears to be a painfully self-conscious reference to the Grail quest. Perceval (Locke) meets the wounded Fisher King (Christian) in the Grail Castle (Jacob's cabin), and fails to ask the correct question (something like "Who does the island serve", I suppose).

Did anyone else flash to _Twin Peaks_, with Claire as Laura in the Black Lodge? At least we didn't have to put up with backwards-talking dancing dwarves last night...

> Jen: The island must be ahead of the time on the freighter, right?

Not so fast...the (1) doc washes up, (2) Morse message to ship, (3) doc dies sequence needs to be reconciled with the (1) Daniel calls for the test missile launch, (2) ship says missile has reached the island, (3) missile payload shows up later sequence that we saw earlier in the season. Iron out how to make those part of a consistent set of rules, and we're 90% of the way to a solution...

Posted by: KCK | May 9, 2008 6:08 PM | Report abuse

OK, I had strongly toyed with the idea that Claire/Emilie was dead, but remembering Desmond's vision of her and Aaron getting in the helicopter, I have to step back from it. Which raises the question of why she was so chummy with Christian?

As for the end -- do the good guys win? does good defeat evil? do we get a satisfactory happy ending? Then brotha, Desmond of course can't die. He and Penny need to be reunited.

Of course, they might end up being reunited on the Island. Could Desmond and Penny be Adam and Eve (from the caves, season one)?

Posted by: Bender | May 9, 2008 6:41 PM | Report abuse

I think Claire died during the explosion. That's why Miles was watching her so closely...not because he wanted her as Sawyer suspected but because he can see dead people.

Posted by: WHL | May 9, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

I think Alpert must be the wandering Jew, hanging around for the second coming. If Locke needs to move the island, there are 3 spatial dimensions and one time dimension, according to conventional physics. I think he'll move it in time. In fact, maybe that's why the button had to be pushed every 108 minutes. To move the island again before anyone could find it. But now it's gonna be sort of a problem.

Posted by: Doctor Slop | May 9, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

It seemed to me that Claire was dead as well. What bothers me the most, and has been bothering me as we learn who the Oceanic 6 are, is that Charlie went to his death because Desmond said he saw Claire and Aaron getting on a helicopter.
And I was disappointed that it was never shown if Claire found Charlie's ring.

Posted by: Lost and Found | May 9, 2008 10:08 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone notice this was not a flash-forward?

Posted by: flashback | May 9, 2008 10:34 PM | Report abuse

This ep took me back to Tibetan Buddhism.

Dharma is a Buddhist term, and basic to the story, even if we don't known details yet.

The Tibetan Buddhist tradition of showing a child objects from his previous lifetime is not just used in determining the rebirth of the Dalai Lama - it is the ancient way of determining the rebirths of numerous lamas and manifestations of deities. Not so much the rebirth of the Buddha himself. That is a very rare and infrequent occurance.

The Dalai Lama is not the incarnation of Buddha, he is the human form of Chenrezig, the main deity of Campassion. Scorsese's film Kundun shows the process beautifully.

I think little Locke knew the knife didn't belong to him, but chose it anyway because 1) he WANTS to become a man of action and 2) he hates it when anyone tries to tell him who he is. He's bucking fate - on purpose; consequences to come.

Claire is dead. In Tibetan Buddhism,
they believe that when one dies a sudden and unexpected death they become super confused and do not realize they are dead - her father appears to explain this to her and to lead her onward. Don't know how this connect to the cabin or her creepiness yet.

But I still think the island experience is like the Bardo experience in Buddhism - the Bardo being the time/space/dreamlike place one goes through between death and rebirth.
(Hurley: "We're all dead" )

You have a chance to fix your errant ways in the Bardo, but if you don't you will come back again and again, Groundhog Day style, til you get it right.

These ideas don't begin to cover it all, but the Buddhist references are sure there.

I'm just saying...


Posted by: Camis | May 9, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Was I really the only person to see the Luke(Locke) walking into the cave with his weapon reference?

I mean, I'm thrilled that it made it into the chat, but I do think it is pretty important.

Alpert gets pissed that Locke chose the knife. Abaddon TOLD him all he needs is a knife...

Those two guys are NOT working together.

Locke ain't all that bright. Seriously, Hurley kept asking him "wassup?", and he kept saying "I dunno."

Locke is one of the keys(pun?) to the whole thing. But it seems he is also up-for-grabs. Depending on his choice. He needs to drop his knife.

Posted by: notforyou | May 10, 2008 2:36 AM | Report abuse

I don't know why people will bother to read this "lost" duelling analyses. Waste of precious space in this very influential newspaper. Whenever i see this column, i feel like screaming...

Posted by: ernie | May 10, 2008 8:01 AM | Report abuse

Is it just me, or did Melissa from Locke's "sister" from his foster home look an awful lot like Ben's mother Emily?!?

Posted by: Steph81 | May 10, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but last episode Alpert's character looked and acted so much like the "G-man" character from the Half-Life pc games they might as well have named him so in the credits. Just curious if anyone else who has played half-life noticed it as well. For the half-life uninitiated, the G-Man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-Man_%28Half-Life%29

Posted by: Williamsburg | May 10, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Hello

Some people, including the hosts, interpreted the presence of Richard Alpert watching through the window to the nurse, Emily's mother, and the baby, together with Emily's mother unsure behavior, as a pointer that Alpert could be John Locke's biological father. Other readers, instead, point out Anthony Cooper's con to get Locke's kidney as the indicator of him being Locke's father. I realize that this sounds a bit strange, but I'd like to remind everyone that when Emily talks to Locke while they're having a coffee after the parking lot incident (he's hit by a car), she tells him that he is "special", that he "doesn't have a father", that he " was immaculately conceived".

Another point (already referred to in part by another reader): Richard Alpert is disappointed with young John for identifying the knife as his; Mr Abbadon encourages John to take a walkabout on the Australian outback with just a knife and his thoughts; and on the island Ben giving Locke a knife (did we ever see the knife closely to see if it is the same knife that Alpert offered?) to kill his father Anthony Cooper and thus "move on" with his destiny.

Finally, given all the "bonding" in this episode between Hurley and Ben, will Hurley end up working with Ben?

for

Posted by: for | May 10, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

From BDL: Second, I wonder if the island itself is "alive." That is, it is not really an island as we know it, but rather a creature that resembles an island? ... If the island is a "thing" an alien, a lot of what has gone on could be explained. Smoky is the immune system, the visions of things is just the island's own consciousness manifesting in an attempt to communicate with the Losties. "Jacob" would then be a representation of the "island."

I think this is an interesting theory. If the island is really a "thing", I think Jacob is not a human/ghost, but the island itself. If this is true, I think the island is using Christian and other ghosts to speak for him and maybe the cabin is the portal to speak with the island. So we never will see Jacob in human form, only his instructions being spoken through island spirits.

This also would tie into "Jacob" saying to Locke, "Help Me" in their first meeting. If Jacob is the island, I think this is the island asking John to save/help the island, not Jacob as a man.

And this is a bit of a stretch, but on the cover of the comic book that Alpert showed young Locke, there is a symbol that says "atlas" in the corner. Isn't Atlas supposed to be the person holding up the earth on his shoulders?

Posted by: 98102 | May 10, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

If Claire is dead, when did she die? Everyone thought she survived the exploding house and just wandered into the jungle. If she was just dead, she wouldn't have been seen after the house exploded.
Posted by: 77 | May 9, 2008 1:46 PM

Like UStreet and others, I do think Claire is dead and that she died in the night from injuries sustained during the explosion. When she, Miles and Sawyer were walking through the jungle she kept saying her head hurt. And Miles was really interested in her - I think he knew she was pretty close to death. As for why there's no body - remember that there's also no body of Christian Shepherd on the island either - just his empty coffin!

Posted by: 98102 | May 10, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

I don't know why people will bother to read this "lost" duelling analyses. Waste of precious space in this very influential newspaper. Whenever i see this column, i feel like screaming...
Posted by: ernie | May 10, 2008 8:01 AM

I thought a major benefit of the web was the unconstrained space? With enough room for stories on thing like international politics AND TV reviews to coexist peacefully? :)

Posted by: 98102 | May 10, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

I think John and others do end up moving the island, it explains the Oceanic 6 and the ones left behind. Sayid is off to rescue them and first load brings back Jack (because of appendicitis/stitches), Aaron because the island's getting violent and let's get him to safety first and bring Claire when we find her (would be the thinking), Kate to take care of Aaron, and Sun because Jin is determined she'll be on the first load out -- then perhaps he plans to follow. I don't know why Hugo. The problem is the island moves after they leave it and they can't find the island again to rescue the rest. Thus, future Jack's despair at needing to go back to "save" the others. Remember Keamy and company are still on the Island in this scenario.
Posted by: perhaps | May 9, 2008 12:45 PM

perhaps - I like the way you think! Coupling this with the previews for the 3 hour season finale, I think you're on the right track. Also, the ability to have this scenario play out is probably the "reason" the show had jack get sick with appendicitis - there is no WAY he would be on the first plane off the island if he weren't sick/injured. Juliet and others are going to force him onto the plane so he can get treatment in the "real world", though he's going to put up a major fuss about it.

Posted by: 98102 | May 10, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Prediction: Miles is gonna pay Nikki and Paulo a visit - he's obviously a psychic 'grave robber', and those buried diamonds will surely whisper to him sometime during Season 5...

Posted by: egads | May 10, 2008 10:42 PM | Report abuse

oooh, egads, I like that - and they're going to "tell" him they were buried alive!

Posted by: 98102 | May 11, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

"Did anyone else flash to _Twin Peaks_, with Claire as Laura in the Black Lodge? At least we didn't have to put up with backwards-talking dancing dwarves last night..."

KCK, YES! I too was looking for the dwarf. Wonder if that was intentional on the writers' part.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 11, 2008 8:25 AM | Report abuse

The island is threatened. Keamy clearly has a bomb (or a powerfull weapon) on his arm.

WHERE ARE THE 'OTHERS', I mean Ben's people ? Some have been killed on the beach, but they were much more, if I remember correctly.

It doesn't make any sens to let them on the 'other island' to sit and watch.

And what will happen to the 'second island', where Sawyer, Jack and Claire were jailed ?

Posted by: Jef Paris | May 11, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Jef - All we know if that the other "Others" are at "the Temple"... whereever that is, we have yet to find out.

Though interesting point about the other island that the bear cages, etc were at:
1. Does this other island have the same properties as the main island? The healing, the time warp, etc?
2. If they "move" the lost island - does the other island go with it?
3. What ever were they building on the other island?

Posted by: 98102 | May 11, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

KCM wrote: "Not so fast...the (1) doc washes up, (2) Morse message to ship, (3) doc dies sequence needs to be reconciled with the (1) Daniel calls for the test missile launch, (2) ship says missile has reached the island, (3) missile payload shows up later sequence that we saw earlier in the season. Iron out how to make those part of a consistent set of rules, and we're 90% of the way to a solution..."

Ok, in order for these things to be happening, the speed of light to and from the island is changing. Please bear with me here, it makes sense...

You need to think in terms of light (light, radio and all electromagnetic waves) moving at different speeds at different times, which Einstein says it does not. If you are on the island and light moves slower from you to the freighter, the freighter would hear you but long after you transmitted the signal, so lets say you call the freighter as Dan did. The freighter hears you say 30 minutes later, in your future. Now lets say light from the freighter to the island is proportionally faster. They send a signal but its moving faster than light. You hear it before they actually send it. So its like the signal is being sent into the past. So Dan, on the island which is about 30 minutes in the past from the boat, is talking with the girl on the boat, which is 30 minutes in the future from Dan. The boat fires the missle and records it landing, but Dan sees nothing. He has to wait 30 minutes for the island to catch up in time. Since matter is not light it moves normally, so the missle moves according to the normal laws of physics. Just light is changed by the island making me think about the freightees, once they landed, noticing the light from the sky.

Now, the Doc/morse code sequence is also out of sync timewise. Lets say it takes an hour for the Doc's body to wash up on shore. It washes up BEFORE the morse code transmission saying the Doc is on board the freighter and fine. The island would now appear to be in the future. Light is now traveling slower from the freighter to the island, so when the guy on the boat says the Doc is ok, that was in the past by about an hour or two since that was when they killed the Doc. Dan is very worried about the island shifting back and forth in time by minutes and hours. The island is not stable, probably due to the button no longer being pushed every 108 minutes, or something else.

This light shifting would make the island very hard to find especially if the skew changed over time as it appears to be doing.

So, how does one "move the island"? You could drag it forward or backward in time and contental drift would move the island's geographic position. You could change the time skew so great it would take years for anyone from the freighter to make it to the island, not just hours or minutes. To do that you would want to move the time skew such that missles and Doctors land way in the future, so someone like Michael could tell you they are coming and you would have years to prepare. My guess is that is where the island will be "moved", though Keamy is now on the island, so maybe too late.

Someone thought the island might be an alien. I'm thinking the island is from the future, way into the future, and is being used to control events leading to the future. But its still on earth since birds can migrate to it and fish can swim to it, but due to the light skewing, it cannot be seen until you get right on top of it, like the cabin, and can be moved in time, like the cabin.

So here's a theory ... the original inhabitants (Richard Alpert and the Others) are from the future. They use the island and with the island go into the past, altering light speeds and time to hide the island, and from the island teleport to various parts of earth to alter things that will lead to changes in the future, probably to avert some global disaster. They arrive millions of years in their past. Pirates accidentally land on the island 150 years ago (the Black Rock). They kill many of the Others, take control and learn how to use the technology, including the teleportation, and use it to become wealthy in the real world (Widmore). The pirates create the Dharma initiative, bringing the greatest minds in to make use of the island and learn more of its secrets, and even create new technologies based on its power. The Others, with Ben's help, kill the Dharma people, drive others off like Widmorem, and the Others then reclaim the island. The Others and Widmore are currently in a war to claim the island. The Others have the upper hand since they currently control the island and can move it, but they are close to loosing that ability if Keamy gets the island, which my guess is he does, driving Ben into the real world but leaving Locke, the remaining Lostees and the Others to battle Keamy for the island's control. My guess is that when the island moves, it moves into the past, so in 2005 when the O6 get back, everyone they left behind on the island are long dead. Sun's visit to the grave is real, Jen is on the island in the past battling Keamy with Sawyer and Locke, but that was long ago from our time's perspective, so they are long dead.

I'm sure there is an inconsistency somewhere in all of this, but its where I'm heading to explain this crazy show...

Posted by: Sully | May 12, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

As a Baha'i I appreciate such a nice Baha'i reference but I think you're wrong. I think the book is supposed to be some generic law book and it's what Locke was supposed to pick because John Locke, his namesake, wrote a lot of philosophies that greatly influenced the American legal system. So he's supposed to know a bit about history and figure of all the items it's already his because it's the closest thing to his namesake.

Posted by: Jef McDonough | May 12, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

1st: Ernie: go away...read the "other" (pun get it?) Washington paper...I don't think they go in depth in their Entertainment section.

2nd: for those of us who can read and enjoy a little intellectual pursuits keep up the good comments (thanks to Sully and Steve for more great work this week!)

3rd: I've been swayed that Alpert is not Locke's real dad...it took a while but the comments here and the ones over at Lost Easter Eggs have convinced me.

I also want to point out from last week (I posted very late) that we still don't know where the power for the island (electricity) is being generated from...anybody have an idea?

4th(ly): If you haven't gotten a real good look at the comic book cover check it out here (if the link doesn't work: http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2008/05/comic-book-mystery-takes.html)

The idea of a city "floating" above it's land based twin is an interesting one, assuming that it could move "over" existing land masses and perhaps could explain quite a few of the strange sitings on the island (Yemi-flying the opposite direction, Polar Bear, and others) Just a theory.

Lastly: A long-long time ago we saw the map sketched on the blast door of the Hatch. What happened with that. As we saw a few weeks ago there is at least one station which we had never seen before. How many others stations are out there that we don't know about??

Posted by: Da Plane Da Plane | May 12, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Thinking about the Alpert visit to Locke when he's a boy, it only makes sense if Locke was supposed to recognize something from the future. The drawing on the wall of the smoke killing a person drew Alpert's attention. This indicates Locke has these memories of the future. Now, how have we already learned you can transfer consciousness back into your past self, as Desmond did?

My guess is that Locke's consciousness is sent back, to a very young age, maybe just before he was born and may have percipitated his premature birth. Coming back at asuch a young age he does not remember everything. So Locke has these memories but they are vague. They also shape his personality and explain his confusion and recognition of destiny at the same time. When Locke gets to the island it all makes sense to him in a strange way and explains why Locke seems to know what to do next.

Alpert's frustration at Locke not being able to remember from the future may simply be Alpert realizing that Locke is not remembering, which may have been part of a plan. I mean, he has waited 10 years and finds out whatever he is trying to do is not working. Trying to get Locke to go to science camp was another attempt to learn about Locke's memories and shape his future, but again Locke frustrates Alpert. Locke doesn't want to be a scientist, which his teacher says he will be one day. Locke says he wants to be an adventurer, just like Richard Burton whose picture Locke has in his locker and what Locke seems to be prepared to be the instant he lands on the island.

Assuming this line of reasoning is not too far off it explains why Locke seems to know what to do next and maybe why Locke is being chosen as a leader. His consciousness may have been sent back so he could become a leader, or to change the past. If this is the case, Locke will save the island and thus the world.

Posted by: Sully | May 12, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

i know this is a stretch.. but the name Kevin Johnson is an anagram for "NO KNIVES JOHN" ... possible connection between that and Alpert getting upset when John chose the knife?

Posted by: J | May 12, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

i know this is a stretch.. but the name Kevin Johnson is an anagram for "NO KNIVES JOHN" ... possible connection between that and Alpert getting upset when John chose the knife?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 12, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Sully, you rock. I have to read your post a few times to digest it, but it really makes sense.

Posted by: 98102 | May 12, 2008 8:34 PM | Report abuse

I haven't heard anyone else mention it yet, but the "Moving island" is a key part in one of the great pillars of the western canon: Swift's Gulliver's Travels.

The third voyage, to the floating island of Laputa, has weird science, power relations, etc. And I definitely thought of it the moment I saw the cover of the comic book. Maybe good for future reading?

Posted by: Dave D | May 13, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Dave D -

Good one!

Laputa - Lapidus? I don't know how to spell that guy's's name. I don't even remember who he is really. Aging boomer here. But that won't prevent me from starting the word play questions. This feels like a biggy.

Posted by: camis | May 13, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

But couldn't you equally argue that one of the "gifts" being cultivated in the young is precognition (rather than present "memory" of future events)? Although the present "memory" fits in very nicely with an "endless time loop" theory.

Posted by: Jean | May 13, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse

If you rearrange the letters of Mittelos it comes out to "Lost Time" ...or "Time Lost"

Posted by: Sarah Jane | May 13, 2008 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Lapidus is the helicopter pilot - the only person who knows how to get to the island.
The floating island. whoah.

Posted by: camis | May 13, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

oh my, Evangeline Lily is on Leno tonight..... she's going on and on and on about how miserly she is with money ............ you would hate it, Liz. The only thing saving her from my complete hatred is me imagining myself on Leno and how I would also have nothing interesting to talk about so I might also blabber about ridiculous things, too, haha.

Posted by: 98102 | May 14, 2008 12:08 AM | Report abuse

....and now she's demonstrating how she used to suck her thumb and mangle her ear as a kid. Amazing.

Posted by: 98102 | May 14, 2008 12:16 AM | Report abuse

last !

Posted by: camis | May 15, 2008 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Really last. On vacation last two weeks. Wathced the last two weeks last night. Many questions asked in this post were answered, such as where are the remaining others. Good comments again this week.

Posted by: emcdoj | May 23, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

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