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Posted at 10:36 AM ET, 02/19/2009

Lost Dueling Analyses: '316'

By Liz Kelly

Jack wakes up in familiar surroundings. (Screengrab courtesy Get Lost Podcast)
Lost

In which Jen Chaney and I do our best to make sense of the crazy, mixed-up world that is "Lost." And don't forget to join us at 3 p.m. ET for The "Lost Hour live discussion.

Liz: Ben Linus may be coming from a place of good intentions but I think we can agree his lack of concern for the rest of the passengers on Ajira Airways Flight 316 was downright cold. I'm still shuddering from that chilling, "Who cares."

Speaking of chills, I had a few chill-worthy moments tonight. The most important came when Ms. Hawking was explaining that the island was one of several places around the world possessed of a "special energy." That rang a bell. And once you add to it the pendulum, I was bludgeoned over the head with the parallels to the book I'm currently reading, "Focault's Pendulum." I'll spare you the book report. Suffice to say that the book revolves around a 600-year plot by the Knights Templar to control something called "telluric currents" -- basically mystical energy currents that run underneath the crust of the planet. And even more interesting is that the Templars are using the pendulum to locate the navel (yes, navel) of the telluric currents -- the place from which all the others flow and that, once controlled, will give the person or persons in possession the power to control the entire world -- to conjure up tsunamis, shift continents, blot out the sun.

You get the point -- whoever wins that spot, wins the game. Hands down.

Jen: Wait, is this like the time Mr. Burns tried to block the sun from Springfield?

Liz: Not exactly.

Jen: In all seriousness, another episode absolutely brimming over with fodder for discussion.

In the first scene with Ms. Hawking alone, we learned more about the island -- definitively -- than we did in seasons one through three. She explained how Dharma used that pendulum to find the place. And she also told everyone that, as I think many viewers suspected, you can only land on the island during certain brief windows in time (wormhole, anyone?). The notion of repeating the circumstances that landed them there in the first place is also fascinating, especially this idea that Locke is a proxy for Christian Shephard. And, in addition, Jesus.

Liz: Just to clarify, you're talking about Jesus Jesus -- not Madonna's new boyfriend, Brazilian model Jesus Luz?

Oh, and Ms. Hawking also said that the island is always moving -- I believe that was newish information, too. Definitely made sense when we consider Desmond's failed attempts to sail away from the island.

Jen: Of course I'm talking about Madonna's boyfriend. In a related story, is it me, or does Ben Linus remind anyone else of Jellybean Benitez?

Liz: I think it's just you.

Speaking of Ben ... as Jack came into his own as a man of faith, Ben seemed annoyed -- to say the least. He was dying to know what Ms. Hawking told Jack, yet when he had a chance to get in on a reading of Locke's suicide note he backed off. Just one of the curious things about Ben's storyline tonight. The other, of course, being the question about who exactly roughed him up. (More on this later.)

Jen: Let's talk about Ben and that suicide note for a second. You know, before we get biblical.

I wondered if Ben purposely got up and moved to another section of the plane, and not just to give Jack "privacy." It struck me as odd that he, Sayid, Sun and the two randoms on the flight (Sayid's marshal and the guy who felt sorry for Jack's loss) weren't with Hurley, Jack and Kate when they landed on the island. It could be a coincidence, but when it comes to Benjamin Linus, there ain't no such thing.

Liz: Agreed -- as I hinted above, doubts about Ben's intentions started creeping back into my mind pretty aggressively tonight. I'm not retracting my "Jen was right" yet, but be on alert. And I'm not the only one who doesn't trust Ben. Ms. Hawking doesn't seem to have much regard for him, either.

But wait -- where do you think the rest of the passengers ended up?


The pendulum. (Screengrab courtesy Get Lost Podcast)

Jen: I don't know where the rest of the passengers ended up. But I am a believer in the theory that perhaps everyone is on the island, but possibly some of them are in one time and some are in another.

And yes, when Ms. Hawking noted that Ben "probably" wasn't telling the truth, he looked more than a little annoyed. But Jack shouldn't even need to ask if Ben is telling the truth or not.

Liz: Jack needed something to believe in, though, and he had started to believe in Ben. Otherwise he wouldn't have let him take him that far down the path back to the island. He found something new to believe in, though: John Locke.

Jen: He started to believe Ben, but his faith was clearly shaken when he realized Ben had tried to take Aaron away.

Anyway, maybe we should talk about the whole Locke = Jesus thing.

For starters, the name of the episode is 316, which is the same as the Ajira Airways flight number. But, as Christians, biblical scholars and anyone who watches football knows, John 3:16 is an important verse from the Bible:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (Wikipedia)

Should we assume Locke is that Son? And that Jack, who now believes in him, has gained everlasting life? There is plenty of evidence in the episode to support this. Ben's whole speech about Thomas the Apostle, aka the Doubting Thomas. Who may as well be called the Doubting Jack Shephard.

Also, the image of Jack putting his father's shoes on Locke's feet. I may have read too much into that, but it reminded me a lot of the anointing of Jesus's feet, an act committed by someone trying to atone for her sins.

Lastly, let's think about that note from Locke to Jack. It said, "I wish you had believed me." When Jack landed on the island, the only piece he had in his hand was: "I wish." Which leaves ... "you had believed me," practically taken right from the 3:16 passage.

Liz: Again I suffer for napping my way through CCD. Though I can't help but factor Aaron into this, too. Kate gave him up in this episode (even though Aaron isn't really her begotten son) -- and I can't imagine she'd do that without a good reason. Like "Oh, he's the second coming? Well who am I to stand in his way?"

Perhaps all this time the Others and the Dharmas were sitting around waiting for a man child who would be able to command the island's telluric currents. Hence their kidnapping of Walt, repeated attempts to get Aaron and general obsession with baby-making.

Jen: Aaron is certainly "special" in some way, there is no question. I think we need to know more about what happened to him and how Kate gave him up before we can reach any conclusions about what's really going on there, though. But we know from what Alpert said that the Others looked to anoint their leaders at a very young age.

Liz: Okay, so we know (sort of) what changed Kate's mind about getting on that flight. Maybe we should talk about Hurley -- who I doubt suddenly took up the guitar -- and Sayid.

Jen: Yes, many questions about them and all the circumstances surrounding the flight. But talk to me about Charlie's -- I mean Hurley's -- guitar.

Liz: I'm guessing that Hurley got another visit from Charlie -- and that it was Charlie who convinced him to get on that flight. The guitar is just another attempt to help approximate the conditions of the first trip.

What's interesting is that Ben seemed surprised about Hurley -- and when Ben is surprised, I'm surprised. If nothing else, it points out that not only are Ben and Widmore (separately) pulling strings to get these people back to the island, but there's perhaps some larger force at play pulling them back.

Which puts Ms. Hawking's "The island's not done with you yet" to Desmond in an interesting context.

Jen: Indeed. Can I start peppering you with questions that are really rhetorical now?

Liz: Why would I say no?

Jen: Was that rhetorical? Whatever, here come the Qs:

-- How did Sayid get arrested? Just so they could (again) have a marshal on the flight?
-- Who is the random guy who cares so much about Jack's well-being?
-- Why did Sun leave her child behind? What is UP with that? Does she think she's just going to spin by the island, pick up Jin and go right back home to Ji-Yeon?
-- And last question in this series: How AWESOME was it when we all realized Lapidus was the pilot?

Liz: I can actually answer that last one -- pretty awesome. And he uttered one of the best lines of the night when he realized he had the Oceanic 6 on board:

"We're not going to Guam, are we?"

Jen: His presence is actually a significant detail. If they are going back to set things "right," it makes sense that he's flying the plane. He was supposed to be the pilot of 815, and now he finally gets to man a jet to the island.

Brief sidenote about Guam. I grabbed this bit of information about the island of Guam from your friend and mine, Wikipedia:

The Chamorros, Guam's indigenous inhabitants, first populated the island approximately 4,000 years ago.[citation needed] The island has a long history of European colonialism beginning in 1668 with the arrival of Spanish settlers including Padre San Vitores, a Catholic missionary. The island was taken over from Spain by the United States during the Spanish American War in 1898. As the largest island in Micronesia and the only American-held island in the region before World War II, Guam was occupied by the Japanese in December 1941, and was subject to fierce fighting when American troops recaptured the island in July 1944.

Liz: Right -- the entire South Pacific became a battleground during World War II.

Jen: It's an American territory. Which, given the Army documents Jack spotted in Hawking's underground lair, makes me wonder if THE island is, too. I mean, there is at least one U.S. bomb there. And if that's true, well, can't Obama just fix everything? I mean he's president of the island, too, you know!

Liz: Good point, Jen. Because I'm sure the U.S. Army would never have pictures of an area controlled by a foreign power.

And since we're talking about Ajira and Guam, I just need to say I'm so glad that the late night origami session of a couple of weeks back paid off in such a big way. Not. If nothing else, the origami-ball-fraught-with-meaning found a home as a favored cat toy.

Jen: OK, Ms. Sarcastic, the picture doesn't prove that it's a U.S. territory. I'm just saying, maybe there are parallels between the place and Guam.

Liz: One more point from me:

Jeff Jensen wrote a fabu (as usual) piece today about the parallels between C.S. Lewis's Narnia Chronicles and our little show. He concentrated on "Prince Caspian" (which we read last fall), but also touched on another very important detail.

The Dharma Station Ms. Hawking found in the basement of that church contained the means for the Dharmas to locate the island -- via the use of a pendulum and some scribbled formulas on a chalkboard. We know because Ms. Hawking told us so. Take note that the station was called "The Lamppost." Which can't help but bring to mind the lamppost the Pevensie children find on the other side of the wardrobe in the Narnia books. It stands as a kind of familiar beacon pointing the way to the wormhole between two worlds.

Jen: Yes. And another pseudo-literary reference: that comic book Hurley was reading was a Spanish version of "Y: The Last Man." (Note: Thanks to producer Paul Williams for reminding us that "Y: The Last Man" was written by Brian K. Vaughan, who happens to be a writer and producer for "Lost." We tend to forget these things in the midst of late-night "Lost" debates...)

Liz: Ahhhh, nice. I've read the first couple installments about that post-apocalyptic women's only world order. And another reference -- Ben reading James Joyce's "Ulysses." Which is significant because it tells us he is a masochist.

Jen: Yeah, I am not sure if our book club can take all the pages in that thing. Although LindeCuse did warn us in one of their videos that "Ulysses" might be a book worth reading...

Liz: I am hoping that was misdirection on LindeCuse's part and plan to pick back up "Y: The Last Man."

Jen: One last thing about bruised and battered Ben, which -- to bring us full circle, back to when Liz kicked off this post and first opened her eye in the jungle -- gave me the chills.

Before Ben left Jack at the church, he said he had "made a promise to an old friend, and had a loose end to tie up." We then see him later, looking like he's had the living you-know-what kicked out of him. I got this sick feeling that the promise referred to Ben's vow that he would kill Widmore's daughter. And, since he was near a harbor when he called Jack, that he had tracked down Des and Penny's boat and tried to do her some harm. I am hoping Ben's injuries indicate that Desmond prevented him from succeeding.

Liz: You and me both, sister.

Jen: So should we hop on an Ajira Airways flight and roll out of here?

Liz: Let's do. I'll meet you here at 3 p.m. to pick up where we left off.

---
Next week on "Lost": Locke's fateful mission off the island as Jeremy Bentham is revealed.

By Liz Kelly  | February 19, 2009; 10:36 AM ET
Categories:  Lost  
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Comments

anyone else afraid Ben killed Penny?

Posted by: otherliz | February 19, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

I may have missed something huge, but when did Hurley get out of Jail?

Posted by: VTDuffman | February 19, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

I hadn't thought about Ben killing Penny, but it does make sense, though it would be very very sad.
I actually thought that Ben might have gone to see Sayid. Sayid beat him up and got arrested. Ben - somehow - convinced the police/marshalls/whatever to let him take Sayid to "Guam." It might be far-fetched, but it's a theory. Afterall, Sayid did say that things would be bad if he ever saw Ben again.

And what happened to Aaron? I think Kate gave him to Claire's mom...maybe? Her whole demeanor really freaked me out.

I'm disappointed in Sun. How could she just up and leave Ji Yeon, even with a promise that she'd return to Korea. What a beeyotch.

Loved the Lapidus reveal and the Jin reveal. The latter really explains the EW pictures of Jack, Kate and Hurley in leis and how Daniel wound up back in darma times - Locke turning the wheel left everyone permanently in that era.

Crazy stuff. I can't wait until next week. Looks like it's gonna be a good one!

Posted by: eet7e | February 19, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

I'd like to point out that Y: The Last Man is written by Brian K Vaughan, who has been a recent writer on Lost.

Posted by: reychel | February 19, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I may have missed something huge, but when did Hurley get out of Jail?

Posted by: VTDuffman | February 19, 2009 10:54 AM


remember when Ben met the lawyer in the parking garage and he said Hurley would be out in the morning? It still doesn't answer the questions about why he decided to board the plane (though I also think Charlie convinced him), and why he had the guitar.

Posted by: eet7e | February 19, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

we had the same theory about why Ben was so beat up. Something to do with Penny. If he succeeded, that would certainly get Desmond to come to the island for revenge. Wonder if he would bring little Charlie? Where does he fit in?

Frank cleans up nicely. Glad he's back. Loved his line too.

Oh, another question. Why would a marshall be taking a prisoner (Sayid) to Guam???

Posted by: hodie | February 19, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

I don't think Locke is Jesus, I think that is a misdirection. Locke is Judas. Remember that Judas hung himself. Also Ben keeps talking about the rules "Widmore broke the rules when he killed Alex." What if the rules are not the rules of time travel that Farraday keeps talking about but are instead the rules of an elaborate game. A game played between good and evil or God and the Devil? In that case Locke is Judas and Ben the temptor, the liar and deciever that manipulates a man of faith onto betraying his fellows. After all, Locke caused the schism among the lostaways when he blew up the submarine and then killed Naomiboth of these actions he was manipulated into performing. Now some people believe that Judas was following God's plan when he betrayed Jesus. So it should be no suprise that he also communicated with Christian Shepherd and his son Jesus.. I mean Jack.

Posted by: L8yF8 | February 19, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

:( they didn't even mention the waterfall. that's the waterfall where Kate and Sawyer found the case from the US Marshall and found the dead people under the water from Oceanic flight 815. I think that's repeating itself ... somebody is dead under the water for sure ...

I think Kate gave Aaron away because she was following what Claire told her to do. She knew she couldn't take Aaron back to the island, and Sun couldn't justify trying to take Ji Yeon back there either. I'm sure she's hoping Daniel Faraday will be there with coordinates for them to get out ... or something.

In addition, when Ms. Hawking mentioned the island is always moving, that makes sense with why suddenly (in the same episode where Kate and Sawyer found the waterfall, "Whatever the Case May Be") the tide was so high it was threatening to overtake their camp. They'd been in that same spot for days and hadn't had that problem, but if the island was in a different location, then there would be different tides.

whew ... can't wait for next week's episode!!! :)

Posted by: flutterbyjen | February 19, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

When Jack asked Ben on the plane "How can you read?" and Ben replied "My mother taughte me." Ben's mother died in childbirth. Reading (hah) too much into this?

Posted by: Whump | February 19, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Ok, who else thinks it't funny that Jen & Liz referenced Wikipedia for the bible verse instead of you know, THE BIBLE?

My very first thought when Ben left the church was that he was going after Penny. After all, he knew Des was there so it was a pretty good bet Penny would be near.

Hurly is the one who kind of freaked me out. I love that he bought all the extra seats on the plane but he really lost it when Ben boarded, he was not expecting to see him.

Sayid almost seemed to act like he didn't recognize anyone and Kate just seemed pissed at the world. I want to know what she did w/Aaron too. Her answer to Jack was chilling.

Hmm so the producers said Ulysses might be worth reading. Maybe the whispers are the Sirens and Smokey is the Cyclops... Ok, I haven't read it since early High School so maybe I don't really remember anything at all.

Posted by: jes11 | February 19, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Ben's facial wounds looked like burns; made me wonder if he tried to - or did - blow something up (a boat?)

Posted by: mat00 | February 19, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Whump-I said the exact same thing about Ben's mother.

Kate looked like a crack addict heading to detox. I am guessing she gave Aaron to Claire's mom, but I don't think that will set things right as Claire was on her way to LA originally to give Aaron to the adoptive parents.

Need to know how Ben got beat up. Also, and I know this is just a dramatic plot device-before getting on that flight, I might have asked some logistical questions in terms of how they'd get from the plane to the island and how the heck they would get home. I wonder if the O6 were in first class because maybe they were "zapped" off the plane when it lit up, and the other passengers continued on to Guam?

And why did they bother to pack suitcases? It's not like they'll probably ever find them.

Posted by: Laura118 | February 19, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

While I need to go back and review the first few minutes which I missed due to homework - I did catch the end and couldn't help but wonder why NO ONE was surprised to see Ben all bruised and battered. You'd think that Jack would have said something, him being a doctor and all, but everyone treated it as business as usual - or Ben as usual.

Posted by: BraleyPJ | February 19, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Was Ben reading Homer's Ulysses (which would certainly make sense) or Joyce's? Anyone have a screen capture of the book cover?

Posted by: jhusson1 | February 19, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Was Ben reading Homer's Ulysses (which would certainly make sense) or Joyce's? Anyone have a screen capture of the book cover?

Posted by: jhusson1 | February 19, 2009 11:48 AM

It was Joyce's Ulysses. Homer's is the Odyssey.
There's a screencap on the getlost podcast (which you can get through to via DarkUFO)
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/8aa2d20cbb496b3d88f1d9aea70c0565

Joyce makes my head hurt, especially Ulysses. It's kind of like Lost.... :)

oh, and I also loved Hurley's "Dude, you might want to fasten your seatbelt" to the guy in the airplane (Caesar?)

Posted by: eet7e | February 19, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

oh cr*p, they did say Ulysses and my mind went to 'The Odyssey'. I take it all back.

If Joyce's Ulysses would be worth reading I wish I'd heard that 5 years ago, I might have managed to finish it by now.

Posted by: jes11 | February 19, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

re:
Was Ben reading Homer's Ulysses (which would certainly make sense) or Joyce's? Anyone have a screen capture of the book cover?

Posted by: jhusson1 | February 19, 2009 11:48 AM

Ulysses is the Roman (see Virgil) name for Odysseus. Ulysses is the title of a James Joyce novel.

I'm excited to see what else happened in the 46 hours before the losties find themselves back in the island.

I laughed out loud at Ben's "My mother taught me" line. Don't read too much into it. I think Ben is just a bit of a smart aleck. Seriously though, who on earth considers Ulysses to be some light airline reading?

Posted by: andillformthehead1 | February 19, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

"Ok, who else thinks it't funny that Jen & Liz referenced Wikipedia for the bible verse instead of you know, THE BIBLE?"

Me, for one: unintentionally hilarious!

To wander off in another direction: I've been pondering for the past several weeks the resemblance of Ben to Mephistopheles in Goethe's "Faust." There, Mephistopheles identifies himself as "A part of that power that always wills the evil, and always does the good." Which he explains further by saying, "I am the spirit that always denies."

Posted by: thrh | February 19, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Not only did they shout out Y: The Last Man, but they used volume 3, the volume in which two men and a pregnant woman fall out of the sky.....

Could this foreshadow Kate having a bun in the oven?

Posted by: WilsonWelch | February 19, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

If the Oceanic 6 have to return to the island to make things right, doesn't that mean Aaron has to go back too?

Posted by: GlennSG | February 19, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

If you ever ask me about Aaron again, I will kill you. OK, let's screw!

That was kinda jarringly off for a scene.

Why were Jack and Ben be surprised that John committed suicide? The obit from the paper already said that. Well, Ben was prolly just faking it.

I think the 2 weeks in a row of the Old Smart People talkin' smack about Ben is pretty funny and might also be a hint that he is actually making the Island/Jacob a bit unhappy.

Posted by: NotForYou1 | February 19, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Laura, I'm pretty sure that (especially post 9-11) if you show up and book last minute seats on an intercontinental flight and bring along no luggage, it raises eyebrows!

Did anyone else think there maybe someone we know (Des?) flying coach? Can they all just be redshirts?

Liz and Jen, thanks for the analysis and the interesting speculation on Ben and Penny. However, I do wonder how anyone who does this even semiprofessionally could have been taken by surprise by Frank. Jeff Fahey was not hidden, his name was in the opening credits. Once 55 minutes had gone by with no prior sign of Frank, it would have been a shock if he hadn't been revealed to be the pilot.

I saw the Doubting Thomas scene as Ben preparing Jack for Locke's resurrection specifically, as the scenes seem to indicate too.

Has anyone ever seen the movie Skyjacked, which also focuses on a group flying first class, one of whom (Rosey Grier's oversized character) insists on his cello occupying a first class seat?

Posted by: UniqueID | February 19, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

As soon as I saw Kate and Jack getting hot&heavy I knew she was going to be pregnant when she landed on the Island. That would really get them closer to the original set up.

Posted by: jchaiken | February 19, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

If the Oceanic 6 have to return to the island to make things right, doesn't that mean Aaron has to go back too?

Posted by: GlennSG | February 19, 2009 12:00 PM

I don't think so. My thought is that since Aaron was BORN on the island, he doesn't need to return. He may be part of the "Oceanic 6", but he wasn't an original passenger per se.

What does that mean for Walt? Could he have been hidden somewhere in coach?

Posted by: andillformthehead1 | February 19, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Why would a marshall be taking a prisoner (Sayid) to Guam???

Perhaps Sayid promised to produce some evidence that would be of interest to the said marshall? More curiously, didn't that marshall lady look a lot like Ana Lucia?

I did not think that Ben might have tried to kill Penny, but it would make perfect sense if she was gone. The island "is not done" with Desmond, but Penny stands between them - and as such, she needs to be removed.

Posted by: alina_estis | February 19, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

What about the leather ?bomber? jacketed guy who Hurley tells to fasten his seatbelt. After commenting to Jack at the ticket counter and being the only other person besides the stewardesses and the US marshal in first class he will have some story involvement. The guy is either going to play a big role in the new season or he is a red Herring meant to make us think that he will. My guess is that he will. Will he be a new antagonist or what?
Also I am curious as to whether the plane actually crashed or wether our fearless heros just time jumped out of the plane leaving it to continue on to Guam.

Posted by: ThatGuy1 | February 19, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

No worries, jes. The Sirens and The Cyclops are also names of chapters - or "episodes" - in Joyce's Ulysses.

I saw the marshall's (Ilana?) resemblance to Ana Lucia, too, especially in the preview for next week.

And no mention of Jack's grandad? I think it was sweet, but a little superfluous. He couldn't just go to his mom's house to try to find something of his dad's?

Posted by: eet7e | February 19, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Re: Guy concerned about Jack in the airport. Isn't that a guy from Sayid's past as an royal guard in Iraq? I have this vague memory of him from the ep where Sayid helps nadia escape. havent we seen him before, somewhere?

Posted by: skitch00 | February 19, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

1) I know some people love Hurley, but can they now at least see the point of those of us who consider him a waste of (a lot of) space? How useless and annoying was it for him to be screaming for help when there was nothing wrong with him, while all the while Kate was lying unconscious in dire danger of drowning? She could have used Hurley's help, or at least for him to get Jack on the scene to rescue her, not his useless self. All he had to do was paddle to shore and help her, or even stand up in the 4-foot water! Instead he makes Jack risk his neck, endangering him and Kate needlessly.

2) What was the point of Grandpa Ray? The writers could just have had Jack already have had Christian's shoes or watch or something in a box; they didn't need Ray for that. When it became obvious that Ray was unhappy and his nursing home existence was pointless, I thought Jack was going to (and should have) offer to let Ray come along. But I don't think we've seen the last of Ray.

Posted by: UniqueID | February 19, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

I was struck by the rabbit in the magic show at the old folks home, rabbits always seem to mean something. Also, I have a head cold so I was not at full mental capacity, but I sorta thought it was Ben playing magician, although I'm sure Jack would have noticed that! Probably just the Sudafed messing with my head.

Posted by: talleyl | February 19, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

I usually just lurk but I love, love, love these discussions.

One note: Unless the laws of physics are totally screwed up (and in Lost, who's to say they're not), it would have been impossible for Desmond and Penny to sail from London to LA in 70 hours. Desmond would have to fly there and may have left Penny behind, though, of course it is possible he would have brought her and Charlie with him instead of leaving them so close to her father. And I'm guessing that Penny and Desmond are unaware of Ben's desire for revenge. I would hate for Ben to have murdered or even attempted to murder Penny and if he did attempt it, I sure hope Desmond succeeded in beating the sh*t out of him with no harm coming to Penny.

Posted by: lostcyclist | February 19, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

shoot . . . forgot to mention something re: the flash of light on the plane and ending up in the jungle. reminded me a bit of Stephen King's "The Langoliers" (not sure I'm spelling that right).

every time they showed the guy in the leather jacket last night we kept yelling "new character!" we'll see if he does indeed fill that role . . . or if he ends up being nikki/paulo waste of time.

my guess is that he's a never-before-seen other.

Posted by: andillformthehead1 | February 19, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

***

1) After last night’s “316” episode we now know WHERE the O6 are: back on the island. The question is WHEN are they? At the end of the episode, does the appearance of Jin in what appears to be new Dharma coveralls (driving what appears to be a new Dharma van) suggest they are on the island near the beginning of the Dharma Initiative? (After all, the picture of the island in Mrs. Hawking’s underground lab is dated 1954.)

2) In the previews for the upcoming “Jeremy Bentham” episode, the last shot appears to be Locke/Bentham preparing to hang himself, and Ben is with him. In the preview Ben says to Locke, “You have no idea how important you are,” which would suggest he’s on Locke’s side and trying to keep Locke from committing suicide, but I think we know by now how disingenuous Ben’s words can be. I’ve suspected for a while Ben may have something to do w/ Locke’s death. Locke appears to be sincere in his desire to “save” the island (and the Losties still there). Are Ben’s motives for returning to the island as pure and magnanimous as Locke’s motives, or does Ben have personal reasons for wanting to return to the island and, presumably, resume his leadership role there?

3) Putting 1 and 2 together, is it possible that the O6’s “destiny” might be to “course correct” time by going back to the island before Ben’s take-over and stopping Ben?

4) It worries me that Ben’s appearance in his pay-phone call to Jack and on the plane suggests he has been in a fierce, bloody struggle when he went to take care of what he called “unfinished business.” We know Ben has threatened/promised to kill Widmore’s daughter, Penny. We know Desmond is in L.A. b/c we saw him at Mrs. Hawking’s. Is Penny with Desmond in L.A.? Do you think the blood on Ben’s face suggests . . . ? (A Penny for your thoughts!) And to think Desmond declared his free will to Mrs. Hawking and said he was done w/ the island! While there is plenty we don’t know about _Lost_, one thing that’s been consistent in five years is: it is dangerous declare free will.

And then, of course, Ben’s bloody face may just explain why Hurley and Sayid “magically” appeared at the airport. That Lindeloff and Cuse! Their ambiguities have kept us “Lost” and tuning in (in both analog and digital!!) for five years now!

Posted by: MrMerkin | February 19, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Could this foreshadow Kate having a bun in the oven?

Posted by: WilsonWelch | February 19, 2009 12:00 PM

Completely agree...afterall the "original conditions" had a pregnant lady on it (Claire) My mind immediately went to Kate being preggers with Jack's baby....which should make for an interesting reunion with Sawyer

Posted by: bmmarr | February 19, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

"I don't think Locke is Jesus, I think that is a misdirection. Locke is Judas. Remember that Judas hung himself."

Excellent point by L8yF8. As much as I'd like Locke to be a kind of "saviour" it doesn't appear that is his "role". However, the suicide bothers me, primarily, because it is just a drastic and incredibly defeated way to go. So, either Locke feels so guilty and devastated by something he does (or thinks he does) or it's a mirage or device in and of itself.

I also wonder what transpires that enables Locke to get off the island. When I read his note to Jack, I had the sense that it was referring to something very specific that happens but which we've not yet seen.

Slightly different topic & thought regarding "remembering a memory" like Desmond did early this season. Recall that when we first meet Faraday in his flashback, that he's awaking from a "dream" or more likely a memory. I'm very curious to know what that memory was and how it ties in with things.

Something that bugs me: why couldn't the OC 6 just charter their own plane? Or why can't they return to the island as Ben does? Furthermore, why does Ben have to fly with them?

Finally, regarding Joyce's Ulysses consider that it takes place over the course of one day, but that time appears to shift as a way to tell a much "larger" story. (Of course, there's a lot more to it, but that's a start...)

Posted by: lebowski | February 19, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Any why is Jack wearing a suit when he knows he's going to the island? Seems like jeans would be better!

Posted by: jjohnson222002 | February 19, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Technically Aaron WAS a passenger, albeit inside Claire. So I thought the same thing about Jack & Kate's "hookup" the night before the flight. That would put a pregnant woman on the flight.

I still think I prefer Sawyer & Kate together.

Posted by: wadejg | February 19, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

My current suspicion about Locke's 'suicide' is that he believed his death was the only way to get the O6 to get back together and back to the island. The only other plausible reason I can think of is that he felt he needed to return to the island dead so that he could resurrect there, but that's really stretching it.

Posted by: Gonzai | February 19, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

"Completely agree...afterall the "original conditions" had a pregnant lady on it (Claire) My mind immediately went to Kate being preggers with Jack's baby....which should make for an interesting reunion with Sawyer"

And it's not just any old pregnancy that's the common factor if the Kate suppositions are correct - both would have been pregnant with Christian Shephard's grandchild.

lebowski, good question on the O6 just chartering a plane (Sun and Hurley could easily afford it). Presumably Hawking knows what she's talking about re duplicating conditions as closely as possible and unfortunately a near-empty charter would not suffice; it has to be a regularly populated commercial airliner.

Posted by: UniqueID | February 19, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Unique ID, great point about Christian Shephard's grandchild!

Posted by: bmmarr | February 19, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

re: Locke as Judas

I don't think that's accurate. Locke has been a true believer, and he's told by a higher authority (Jacob) that he must sacrifice himself for the good of the island (if not the world). Remember what Jacob said, "Sacrifices must be made." I definitely think Locke is in the Jesus role, and I'm awaiting a resurrection.

Posted by: Dr_Bob | February 19, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Re: Guy concerned about Jack in the airport. Isn't that a guy from Sayid's past as an royal guard in Iraq? I have this vague memory of him from the ep where Sayid helps nadia escape. havent we seen him before, somewhere?

skitch00 - Maybe you remember him from the movie "Three Kings" where he plays an Iraqi soldier. He tortures the Mark Wahlberg character, similar to Sayid. But he also portrays it so your conflicted between his actions and his words. In any case, he's not the same guy from the episode you're thinking about. (Just reviewed Lostpedia).

But, I absolutely think he'll play some an "interesting" role. My guess is that he's a Widmore spy...

Posted by: lebowski | February 19, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Sacrifice and suicide are two very, very different things.

Suicide is strictly forbidden in many (if not all religions). In Christianity it is considered the one thing beyond absolution.

No, my sense is that Locke is going to disappoint many of us.

Posted by: lebowski | February 19, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

re: Locke as Judas

I don't think that's accurate. Locke has been a true believer, and he's told by a higher authority (Jacob) that he must sacrifice himself for the good of the island (if not the world). Remember what Jacob said, "Sacrifices must be made." I definitely think Locke is in the Jesus role, and I'm awaiting a resurrection.


Posted by: Dr_Bob | February 19, 2009 12:44 PM

Actually, it could be accurate. The Gospel of Judas was one of many gospels not considered canon material for the Bible. According to the Gospel of Judas, Jesus told Judas to betray him in order to bring about the resurrection. Jesus also held Judas in high favor because Judas was true believer, moreso than the other apostles. There was also something about Judas being a descendant of Seth, third son of Adam. Descendants of Seth were regarded as "special". I hope I made some sort of sense because I just got LOST.

Posted by: linda1413 | February 19, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

I do believe that Kate delivered Aaron to his grandmother/Claire's mom, but then suspicous since Ben was behind the lawyers who threatened Kate AND who is the link to the grandmother. Ben may still be in control.

I am suprised Jen and Liz did not mention much about Jin in summary, but look forward to 3pm discussion.

I am intriqued by the theory of Ben getting beat up by confrontation with Penny. I first strayed to wondering about Walt.

My favorite lines were from Ms. Hawking- her apology that this was all very confusing, then telling Jack to pay attention. We get it, writers.

Posted by: VAjyd | February 19, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

UniqueID, I, too, was not suprised to see Lapidus as the pilot since Fahey's name was in the opening credits. Which led me to comment to my beau, why can't they run the credits at the end so as not to ruin the surprise.

Posted by: jraines | February 19, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Re: Guy concerned about Jack in the airport. Isn't that a guy from Sayid's past as an royal guard in Iraq? I have this vague memory of him from the ep where Sayid helps nadia escape. havent we seen him before, somewhere?

see... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0846548

Posted by: satyric | February 19, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Heads up to _Lost_ fans who like to record episodes and watch again (and again and . . .). This week's episode, "Jeremy Bentham," will run from 9:00 until 10:06, according to an ABC release. Notice the unorthodox end time!

Posted by: MrMerkin | February 19, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

I agree that Locke thought killing himself was the only way to get everyone back to the island. I wonder if the scene in the previews where Ben is telling Locke how important he is seemingly right before he kills himself was Ben convincing Locke to kill himself one to further replicate the first flight and two to convince everyone how serious the situation was.

Posted by: maybe2 | February 19, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Surprised nobody's mentioned that "Ajira" airlines is mostly likely a play on the "Hejira," which I believe (with apologies to muslims for my wholly incomplete summary of these important events--or any errors made within) was the emigration of Muhammad and his followers to Medina.

After this emigration, Muhammad and his army engaged in battle with his pagan rivals (in Mecca, I think), winning decisively, and thus marking the beginning expansion of Islam throughout the region.

Anyone want to take a guess as to who would be the Losties' "prophet" leading his followers (the Six) back to the island (Medina) in this metaphor? Ben? Locke? Jack?

Anyone want to further venture how the Lost narrative may end up reflecting this metaphor in coming episodes?

By the way, Jacob is Locke. Ben is Esau. Just sayin'. . .

Posted by: Screwtape | February 19, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Skitch: You probably saw that guy before in the movie 3 Kings. He was excellent in it and I look forward to him potentially joining the cast of this show.

Posted by: Roxie1 | February 19, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

loving the discussion! the man concerned with Jack's well being/Jack's loss does look familiar, I'm going w/random Iraqi army buddy of Sayid - but then why wouldn't he & Sayid recognize each other.
Also - loving Kate's sunglasses - despite hating her 'tude. Any ideas on the designer/make/model?

Posted by: cleonardfll | February 19, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

weren't the things that washed up on the beach a few episodes back from ajira airline? juliet knew the airline but nobody else was familiar with it. the stuff seemed to be detris from a plane crash, perhaps the plane that jack, kate, ben, etc. were on.

Posted by: jennfenn | February 19, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Telluric currents huh? Maybe that explains this Stooges cd:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluric_Chaos

Why would a marshall be bringing Sayid to Guam? Is that where the golf course was where he aced that guy while still in Ben's employ?

Posted by: HardyW | February 19, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

linda1413: very interesting! I still suspect Locke is in a Jesus role, but you bring up some very good points, and it wouldn't be the first prediction of mine concerning Lost that didn't pan out. :)

This brings up a question that has always bugged me about Jesus; if he *knew* that he was going to be killed and how it was going to end, wouldn't that be a form of suicide?

Posted by: Dr_Bob | February 19, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else think there's not a guitar in Hurley's/Charlie's guitar case?

Posted by: jhusson1 | February 19, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Locke many earnestly be a true beliver, but he is putting his faith in the Island. How do we know if the Island is good? We know it rewards it's followers with health and puishes it's enemies with disease. We also know that id does not allow children to be conceived and brought to term there. Not sure what that means except that Adam and Eve had no children until they were expelled from Eden.

On another note, the skeletons in the caves the Lostaways briefly stayed in may be Bernard and Rose. If you remember the only thing the skeletons posessed were a little bag with one black stone and one white stone. While that may seem a silly and obvious metaphor, it might have been Bernard's best guess about how to mark their graves in a way that someone might some day understand.

Posted by: L8yF8 | February 19, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

No one has mentioned how Ben lied to Jack about not knowing that Locke hung himself. If the preview for next week is any indication, we see Ben right there as Locke is putting the noose around his neck.
Another thing I wonder about is if Ben is actually supposed to be on that flight to Guam. Didn't he tell Locke that he (Ben) had to turn the wheel and move the island, and whoever did that could never return? I have a feeling Ben is not supposed to go back to the island but he is going to anyway.

Posted by: apfromal | February 19, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

ah, Roxie1 you are so right! I must be thinking about 3 kings. he is the one that tortures marky mark!

Posted by: skitch00 | February 19, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else think there's not a guitar in Hurley's/Charlie's guitar case?

Posted by: jhusson1 | February 19, 2009 1:42 PM

My first thought was that the guitar case was filled with snacks and ranch dressing.

Posted by: BraleyPJ | February 19, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone recognize the song playing on the Dharma van as Jin drove up? Was it the Dead, or Garcia solo? I guess that would help in placing when they are. (And pretty cool to think of Jin jammin' along in a VW bus to the Dead...)

Posted by: jhusson1 | February 19, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Why would a marshall be bringing Sayid to Guam? Is that where the golf course was where he aced that guy while still in Ben's employ?

Posted by: HardyW | February 19, 2009 1:38 PM

I'm pretty sure the victim on the golf course mentioned something about "Is this your first time in the Seychelles?" The Seychelles are in the Indian Ocean, near Madagascar.

Posted by: eet7e | February 19, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

However, I do wonder how anyone who does this even semiprofessionally could have been taken by surprise by Frank. Jeff Fahey was not hidden, his name was in the opening credits. Once 55 minutes had gone by with no prior sign of Frank, it would have been a shock if he hadn't been revealed to be the pilot.

Posted by: UniqueID | February 19, 2009 12:04 PM

I've taken to putting the closed captioning on at the beginning of the show. They run the captioning at the top of the screen and that helps to keep my eyes away from the credits. I was completely surprised and pleased that Frank was there. Especially with his "We're not going to Guam" comment.

Posted by: fxli | February 19, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Back to the Ulyses thing: the protagonist in the novel is Stephen Dedalus. The last name is a reference to they mythical greek hero, Daedulus. From wikipedia: As if to further corroborate this, Stephen's first name comes from the first Christian martyr and, in a curious juxtaposition, his surname refers to the mythological figure Daedalus, a brilliant artificer who constructed a pair of wings for himself and his son Icarus as a means of escaping the island of Crete, where they were imprisoned by King Minos (who contracted Daedalus to build a Labyrinth to contain the Minotaur).
!!! I plan to go reread it....i know, i must hate myself.

Posted by: JamieREades | February 19, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Another good one! I agree that is was very odd that no one said anything about Ben being banged up. It was so odd, in fact, that I got the feeling they already KNEW what had happened. Like MrMerkin, I wondered if he had fought his way through the night getting Sayid and Hurley onto the flight, and perhaps arranging to get Aaron away from Kate.

Ben usually seems so "in charge" of things, even when we don't know what those things are. But lately we have seen more of his vulnerability - looks to me like there are forces in charge of Ben (not just Jacob) and that he has been disappointing them lately. Mrs Hawkings doesn't think much of him. And even though she played it cool when only a couple of the 06 showed up, it seemed to me that Ben knew he had failed badly. He sure didn't like being humiliated by her! So I think he went out to force everyone to go, most likely using a variety of ploys to do this, in part to prove that he could do his job right. I bet Sayid beat him up, as he warned he would do.

Ben wants to get back at Widmore, but at the moment it doesn't seem like his priority. I like the idea someone posted that the New Guy is a Widmore spy.

Kate freaks me out. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I do not trust her. Her Jack Attack seemed well planned and creepy. Maybe to get pregnant, yes, but her emotional detachment is getting bizarre.

"My mother taught me" was my favorite line, I think it was only meant sarcastically - along the lines of "ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer"

The Biblical references sure are piling up these days.
Like Sully, I think The Island represents different things to different people but always along the same lines involving the basic primordial questions about Good and Evil and free will vs predetermination.

Question - why is Miles part of Daniel's scientific team? I have absolutely no idea what his expertise is.
Unless he;s there for his apparent psychic qualities.

Posted by: camis | February 19, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

LOL Dr_Bob! This show lets your imagination run wild...a quality I love and loathe (w/love) at the same time.

I don't know if Jesus "knowing" he would die would be counted as a form of suicide. Philosophically...would it be? Or would it be considered going with fate/destiny? Dang...that might make a good philosophical argument.

Why is Jin rocking Dharma-wear? What the heck happened to Aaron? Who kicked Ben's arse? What makes Jack hotter than Sawyer? Oh I know the answer...NOTHING! Sawyer FOREVER!!!

Posted by: linda1413 | February 19, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I think the reason Ben didn't want to (didn't need to) read Locke's suicide note is because Ben already knows what it says.

Posted by: mat00 | February 19, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Thank you Linda1413 for the Gospel of Judas info. I am still on my kick from last week that we are watching serious parent-child Biblical references play out. Egypt? Sins of the father visited on the son? Both Kate and Sun have set their babies in baskets and sent them down the Nile, or something to keep them safe anyway. Jin's mother wasn't his real mother either, perhaps he was left in a basket by the river?

Speaking of Jin, my vote is that he is wearing a Dharma jumpsuit for the same reason we recently saw Daniel in a Dharma jumpsuit: One of the most recent time jumps (maybe THE most recent time jump) was to the early Dharma settlement days when they were building the "basement" of the Orchid Station and the guys had to blend in. This is also probably the same time period when a mournful Daniel will encounter young-Charlotte and warn her to never ever come back.

After all, the place is death. I wish you would have believed...

Posted by: a68comeback | February 19, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

When Locke turned the donkey wheel the time jumping stopped. It just so happened that Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, etc. were in the 1970s when that happened. I guess they assimilated with the Dharma people and have been part of their group for the past three years.

Posted by: buffysummers | February 19, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

For some reason I seem to remember that guy that Hurley told to buckle up as being in Sayid's flashbacks as another iraqi soldier.

Posted by: LIGIRL5104 | February 19, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

"we had the same theory about why Ben was so beat up. Something to do with Penny. If he succeeded, that would certainly get Desmond to come to the island for revenge. Wonder if he would bring little Charlie? Where does he fit in?"

Maybe Little Charlie could replace Aaron.

* How come we haven't heard from Tall Ghost Walt?

* When I saw all the scribbling on the wall at the Lamppost, I wondered if it was Daniel Farraday's.

I also had a thought about last week's ep...Could Charlotte have been Daniel's daughter? His attitude toward her seemed more paternal than romantic.

Posted by: memphis1 | February 19, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

I also loved Lapidus' line....But that's the first time I thought someone looked better with the beard!

Posted by: memphis1 | February 19, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Maybe the music in the van is Geronimo Jackson ?? How appropriate!

Posted by: gidg | February 19, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Geronimo_Jackson

Posted by: gidg | February 19, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

jennfenn, you are totally right. It was an ajira aircraft that was found washed up on shore. Juliet did not seem suprised about it. I wonder how she knew?

Memphis, I thought Frank looked totally different without his beard and it took me a few moments to recognize him. (I don't watch opening credits). He looked much older without it, which is why the flight attendant gave Jack a strange look when Jack claimed to be an old college buddy.

Posted by: hodie | February 19, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

While I don't think there can be any doubt that the Lamppost was inspired by Eco's book (hmm, Eco/Eko...), Liz is missing the point of the book -- Belbo and co. made up the Templar conspiracy and wound up in trouble when people who needed to believe in conspiracies to cope with the world started taking it seriously.

What was up with the mini-pendulum knocking over the Jack doll in the ad for the Lost thingie during _Life on Mars_?

I think we all know what Ben's loose end was, I'm just hoping that the blood is his, and Desmond (or Sayid?) kicked the snot out of him when he tried to kill Penny...

Speaks volumes about Ben's relationship with the other characters that he can show up for the flight with dried blood all over one side of his face and no one blinks twice at it...

First rule of good writing is "show, don't tell". The Mrs. Hawking scene violated that big time. I've been worried for a while that the writers will back themselves into a narrative corner where they don't have the time to resolve the mysteries of the island without doing that.

I thought Kate's "we're all on the plane doesn't mean we're all together" comment was key to the rest of the season -- it'll be interesting to see what happened to Aaron and how Hurley was convinced to come along (loved his trying to buy all the other seats -- that was so Hurley).

Apropos of nothing, am I the only _Post_ user whose browser is crippled to a crawl by some of the flash ads on the site? (Sprint's seem to be the usual offender)

Posted by: Karl3 | February 19, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Oh Gosh! I just thought about this.. now.. is it possible that since Jack/Kate are on the Island now in 1970s.. and Kate could be preggers.. and she gives birth to a girl.. who is brought up by the losties in the DI period and along with Kate or whoever gets out to England .. and her name is actually Charlotte.. and since the reason she was brought up by 06 is why she learnt korean with Jin and Sun (who definitely miss Ji-Yeon) and our Daniel who is working on building the Orchid.. when he realizes this is the charlotte.. tells her not to come back.... ??? wow!! what ya guys think?

Posted by: thetruckguy | February 19, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

I have one conflict with the "Ben was calling from the marina so maybe he was trying to hurt Penny" line of thought: do we really think that Desmond and Penny SAILED from England to Los Angeles? I know nothing about boats or nautical distances, but wouldn't that take like a week or two?

I don't remember how long it's been since Des paid a visit to Big Charlie Widmore to get Hawking's location, but I was thinking 36-48 hours - not weeks.

Posted by: beisbol | February 19, 2009 8:10 PM | Report abuse

mat00 wrote:
"I think the reason Ben didn't want to (didn't need to) read Locke's suicide note is because Ben already knows what it says."

Gotta agree. I'm not sure if Locke "jumped" or if he was "pushed" by Ben. Since I've never seen a sample of Locke's writing, I'm not even convinced Locke wrote the alleged suicide note, although I have to admit the sentiment expressed is very fitting for Locke.

Clarification on how Locke really died may also clear up some of the discussion above about whether Locke is a savior or a suicide.

I can't wait for this coming week's episode, which hopefully will show whether Locke committed suicide or if he was driven to it by Ben or if Ben is actually responsible for Locke's death and it's not actually a suicide.

Posted by: MrMerkin | February 19, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I thought Ben knew that, like Widmore, if he donkey-wheeled off the island he could never go back. Or maybe he CAN go back if he goes back during a time period before he left. If that's the case, then the time flashes have not stopped after all. Did they time flash off the plane and end up on the island in the 70s?

or something?

Posted by: camis | February 19, 2009 10:29 PM | Report abuse

truckguy,
I think your mind has had its IQ increased 25% by watching Lost. Good analysis. You may be on to something about Charlotte's parents. She does have a lot of ... freckles.

ok, just finished watching the show (had to work last night). Some points:

--Des said Ms. Hawkings sent him on his voyage that ended up on the island. Then Hawkings says the island isn't through with him yet, which is what Tom said to Michael when he could not kill himself. So Des must be indestructible right now.

--I don't think Ben killed Penny. Toooooo obvious. But I'm wondering what unfinished business Ben might have had to do. Maybe visit an old polar bear buddy who wasn't happy to see him? :-D

If the Ajila airplane crashes in 1970, which is where Jin is, then our Losties are all back in 1970. Faraday somehow also gets there as we saw when he was down by the donkey wheel. Maybe 1970 is where they were left after the last flash when Locke went down the well. This means everyone is in 1970. No point here, just an observation.

Kate being preggers from Jack? Maybe. But I think she is using Jack so she can get back to the island and to Sawyer. As for Aaron, I think she gave him to Sawyer's old girlfriend, who many think is who Kate was asked by Sawyer to look after. Kate may have told her Arron was Sawyer's. Kate's a user, but she has shown affection for Sawyer, not Jack, before. She uses Jack. But I think Sawyer has grown into a mature person and will spurn Kate. Ah love triangles when there is no love in the triangle.

The island moving in time makes sense, sorta. I mean, ok, it moves, so you need a pendulum to find it. But then to keep Widmore from finding it Jacob said to "move the island". So how does one move and island which is always moving? Unless... ah, the pendulum. It swings back and forth. Maybe the island swings back and forth through time. The 108 minute button push to release built up energy, installed by Dharma trying to harness the island's energy, may have stopped it from moving through time. Then Locke didn't push the button, the Swan imploded, and the island resumed swinging through time.

Can't wait to start hearing that 1970's music. Rock and roll has been down hill ever since... Remember punk music? Neither do I.

Posted by: bevjims1 | February 19, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

No analysis this time, just a report of another random Walt sighting in a commercial. I was watching some HGTV this evening and saw this Girl's Inc. commercial for their Dear World campaign. If you click on the 60-second version of the Dear World PSA, about 21 seconds in, I swear the kid on the right is our Tall Ghost Walt! Can anyone else confirm?


http://www.girlsinc.org/dearworld/

Posted by: apfromal | February 20, 2009 12:15 AM | Report abuse

I can't confirm that the actor who plays Walt is in a Girls' Inc. commercial, but he is in an ad for some kind of Tyson's Chicken snackers.

Posted by: MrMerkin | February 20, 2009 6:22 AM | Report abuse

I can't remember where I read this idea and I can't remember who wrote it so I can give the writer props, but someone noted that it was Widmore who gave Desmond Mrs. Hawking's address in L.A. If Widmore knows where Hawking is, why can't he do what Ben & the O6 did: go to her and get "directions" to the island? I'm curious if this is a lapse in writing or if it will shake out in future eps.

Speaking of possible lapses in writing:

1) I agree in a post-9/11 world it is improbable that Ben could run onto a flight at the last minute with his face showing signs of a violent struggle - especially when another passenger (Hurley) has booked 78 seats he wants vacant.

2) Further, it's improbable the O6 would seem to take no notice of Ben's face.

2) Wasn't it Kate's secret "missions" to fulfill Sawyer's wishes in L.A. that led to Kate and Jack splitting last season b/c she wouldn't tell Jack where she was going? Why can she now give away something as precious as Aaron, tell him "never ask me about it again," and he complies? One might argue he wants to show he learned from his earlier questioning of Kate, but I don't think a leopard changes his spots that quickly.

3) Did Jack steal a page from Charlie Sheen's character on "Two-and-a-Half Men" that he would sleep w/ Kate on the "sperm" of the moment, especially considering their complex history? I can understand if the writers wanted Kate to be pregnant when she returned to the island, but the way the scene is written seems awkward to me.

The "Lost" writers don't leave a lot of loose ends, so maybe what seems like improbable situations now will be explained later.

Posted by: MrMerkin | February 20, 2009 7:01 AM | Report abuse

andillformthehead1 wrote:

Seriously though, who on earth considers Ulysses to be some light airline reading?

***********************************

I do. I read it one year I commuted to OKC. What really helped was to get a snort of whiskey before opening it up and reading it with an Irish brogue. Everything seemed to make more sense that way.

Posted by: SamFelis | February 20, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Regarding Ben: when he mentioned his unfinished business with an old friend, I immediately assumed this was killing Penny; I have no doubt of that. The question is: what happened? What struck me most when the bloodied Ben phoned Jack from the dock was not Ben's injuries but the trembling of his voice, the fact that he seemed shaken and not in control, even close to panic. Ben's been beaten up many times on this show, but he's ALWAYS maintained his self-assurance. Why so panicky now?

Posted by: PQSully | February 20, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Re: Kate and Aaron. Kate's asking Jack to never ask what happened with Aaron was one of the darkest moments I can remember in the show. The suggestions others have put forth--she gave him to Claire's mom, she gave him to Sawyer's old girlfriend--lack any kind of sinister quality that would result in that grim, horrified resignation in Kate. Her tone suggested that she was part of or witness to something so awful that she can't bear to recount it.

Posted by: PQSully | February 20, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Her tone suggested that she was part of or witness to something so awful that she can't bear to recount it.
Posted by: PQSully

Well, considering the next thing she did was jump on ol' Jack indicates to me she wasn't that upset. But it does indicate she never want's Jack to know, which means Jack would not approve. And Jack seemed to care less, even though Aaron is his nephew. I'm sticking with her giving Aaron to Sawyer's girlfriend, but I'm also considering another possibility (see below).

What's more unusual is that Kate wants to go back to the island. So much so she gave up Aaron. She could have simply taken off with Aaron and hid. She has NO reason I know of to go back, except to hook back up with Sawyer maybe. But I think someone has told her something, that if she has sex with Jack and goes back to the island she will get prego and the outcome will be very good for her. My guess, Widmore got to her and he may have Aaron. That would make Kate a willing or unwilling spy for Widmore. Oh how the plot thickens.

Hurley too. He was so glad to be off that island. Now he is going back, willingly. We are pretty sure he reads the numbers over the radio on the island. He may be working for Widmore too.

Best facial expression: Lopedis saying they were not going to Guam. I don't think he could have crinkled his face any more.

And good point about Ben's trembling voice. By saying he got side tracked means to me he did not do what he set out to do. Widmore again I'm sure. And Ben, who was once confident, is now getting the snot beaten out of him by Widmore. In other words he's loosing the battle and he knows it. Ben's daughter is dead but Widmore can protect his and knows Ben's next moves.

As to why Widmore does not go see Hawkings himself and go back to the island, well, maybe he already knows where it is, or can find it himself, or Hawking would not tell him, or she already has, or he does not need to go back since his man, Faraday, is already there. I guess we just don't know at this time.

Posted by: bevjims1 | February 20, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

And good point about Ben's trembling voice. By saying he got side tracked means to me he did not do what he set out to do. Widmore again I'm sure. And Ben, who was once confident, is now getting the snot beaten out of him by Widmore. In other words he's loosing the battle and he knows it. Ben's daughter is dead but Widmore can protect his and knows Ben's next moves.
Posted by: bevjims1

Interesting point; I think Ben was also completely shocked--and furious--to learn that Mrs. Hawling is Farraday's mom. He may be calling into question everything he thought he understood, in terms of who his allies are, who is is able to control, etc.

Posted by: PQSully | February 20, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

"Well, considering the next thing she did was jump on ol' Jack indicates to me she wasn't that upset. But it does indicate she never want's Jack to know, which means Jack would not approve. And Jack seemed to care less, even though Aaron is his nephew."
Posted by: bevjims1

While Kate's reaction wouldn't be my reaction, I can kind of understand her wanting to just bury her pain in mindless sex. I found it a lot less understandable that, as you said, Jack never bothered to challenge her insistence that he never ask about Aaron. Nephew or not, I would have been sufficiently freaked out by that statement alone to DEMAND to know what happened.

Posted by: PQSully | February 20, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Do we know for a fact that Penny and Desmond's child is a boy...could it be that Charlie is a girl--short for Charlotte and therefore Widmore's granddaughter, who leaves with Penny for England???

Posted by: leftfield | February 20, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

How are the writers going to explain... Our six being on another plane crash... AGAIN... Or if the plane does not crash, what happen to them and the pilot, they just left in flight?. The rest of the world would not let this rest... We are still debating Pres Kennedy killing from the 60s

Posted by: crudeone | February 20, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

How are the writers going to explain... Our six being on another plane crash... AGAIN... Or if the plane does not crash, what happen to them and the pilot, they just left in flight?. The rest of the world would not let this rest... We are still debating Pres Kennedy killing from the 60s
Posted by: crudeone

I think the writers have more important things to explain, such as an island that continually moves, special areas of the earth with "energy", the donkey wheel, time travel, mind travel, how the island heals people, smokey, why women die when pregnant, who Widmore is, how the Blackrock got into the center of the island, what was up with Nikki/Paolo, and why Ben has not blinked in 25 years. And they only have a seaon and a half to do it in.

Posted by: bevjims1 | February 20, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

I agree that Kate seems traumatized and fearful to the point of numbness. Something happened to her, something was revealed to her or she was threatened. And I agree that her Jack Attack had an intense desperation to it. I'm all for mindless sex. KIDDING. But it felt like she HAD to get him to sleep with her - for a sense of comfort, or to get preggers, or maybe she knows their relationship has to end once and for all, can't tell him that, but needs to be intimate with him one more time. Maybe it' s cause I'm a woman, but that's how it felt to me.

thetruckguy:

I love all the different ideas and questions on this blog (is this a blog? i'm from the sixties, not up on the lingo) anyway... I love all the stuff here but your brain flash actually sent chills down my spine (or is it "up my legs" now?). WHOAH! GOOD ONE !!!

Keep smoking whatever you're smoking, man.

Posted by: camis | February 20, 2009 9:46 PM | Report abuse

To PQSully:

I enjoyed your recent posts. Some excellent catches.

1) You wrote: “What struck me most when the bloodied Ben phoned Jack from the dock was not Ben's injuries but the trembling of his voice . . . .” I hadn’t noticed the trembling until you mentioned it. It does add an extra dimension for interpretation.

2) You also wrote: “[Kate’s] tone suggested that she was part of or witness to something so awful that she can't bear to recount it.” I think you’re right. Something very traumatic must have happened to Kate. In one scene she adamantly gets into her car and drives away, obstinately opposed to returning to the island, and just hours later she’s at Jack’s ready and willing to hop back to the island and apparently ready and willing to hop back on Jack.

3) Finally, you wrote: “I think Ben was also completely shocked--and furious--to learn that Mrs. Hawling is Farraday's mom.” I sensed the same thing. At Mrs. Hawking’s Lamp Post station/church, Ben asked Desmond, “What are you doing here?” Desmond replied in effect, “The same thing you are: looking for Mrs. Farraday.” Ben made a pregnant pause and had an interesting look I interpreted as meaning this was the first time he realized Mrs. Hawking was also Mrs. Farraday.

Posted by: MrMerkin | February 21, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Great show and great comments on this site as usual.

One thought re whether Desmond sailed his boat from London to LA. Obviously he couldn't do it in 70 hours. But my daughter commented that we don't really know exactly when Widmore gave Desmond Ms. Hawkings address. We only assumed it was in the same time period that Ms. hawkings told Ben they only had 70 hours to get back to the island. the Desmond/Widmore scene could have happened a lot earlier giving Desmond time to sail his boat across the Atlantic, thru the Panama Canal and up the west coast to LA. Just in time for Ben to find out they are there and then attempt to kill Penny. I'm fairly confident that was his unfinished business. I also suspect he didn't succeed. We'll find out next week I'm assuming.

Posted by: dojemc | February 21, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Even with more time getting a yacht from London to Los Angeles would take a very long time. You would not sail straight across the ocean in a small yacht like that. You'd stay within a certain distance from land, meaning they would have had to sail to Iceland, Greenland, down the Canadian/US east coast, probably through the intercoastal waterways. Then into the Gulf, probably hugging land or island hopping to Panama. Then through the canal, not a quick trip, then up the Central American/US West coasts. If it were me, I'd buy a plane ticket. Of course, Desmond did sail a similar yacht across the Pacific, but that was just him, in a race. A trip like that, with Penny and little Charlie, would be asking for a divorce.

But speaking of Desmond, I did not see him on the plane. The last we saw of him he left the Lamppost and said he was done with the island. And Hawkings said the island was not done with him. If the writers have him taking the yacht from London to LA, then I expect that when Des gets back on it and tries to sail back to London, he will be detoured.

As for Kate, remember after the O6 got back that Kate got a late night visit from Claire telling her that she had better not bring Aaron back to the island. Something similar may have happened and so Kate left Aaron with someone as instructed by Claire. Kate may have also learned she will only survive if she gets preggers before they get on the flight, thus she jumped on Jack. Pure speculation but that's what we do here.

Yes, this is a blog. The word "blog" comes from "weblog", a place designed to go on the web to log information. It was initially used as a simple logging mechanism for multiple people to log information, say on a project, and to maintain the log trail. But as usual people found a better purpose for it.

Posted by: bevjims1 | February 21, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

bevjims:

thanks for the definition. got it! and yer right, i'd forgotten about Claire warning Kate never to take Aaron back. Lots of people telling others not to come back, this place is death and all that.

but of course there they are again.....

Posted by: camis | February 21, 2009 11:17 PM | Report abuse

bevjims1, camis. Thanks! am glad you liked my theory of charlotte being Jack-Kate daughter.
---
Quote by MrMerkin: "I can't remember where I read this idea and I can't remember who wrote it so I can give the writer props, but someone noted that it was Widmore who gave Desmond Mrs. Hawking's address in L.A. If Widmore knows where Hawking is, why can't he do what Ben & the O6 did: go to her and get "directions" to the island? I'm curious if this is a lapse in writing or if it will shake out in future eps."

Reply: Have you considered that Widmore is no longer looking for the Island.. maybe He only WAS looking for it and Eloise would not tell him and agreed and gave him 1 window in exchange for him to fund Daniel's research!.. She wont give him another window since either she doesnt need any other favors.. or maybe since he doesnt need to know where the Island is.. as Ben is Out.. or since he really cant go back (alive).. since he too had turned the donkey-wheel to get out!! That brings the question how is Ben getting back to the Island since he's turned the wheel? can the answer be "Was the supposed to turn the wheel?? No.. so then he can." :)

Now, is Eloise Hawking Elli of 1954?. Since we also know Daniel told Ellie that she reminded him of someone (someone non-romeo-tic). so she remindd him of his mom.. she was yelling and dictating him anyways then.. Also, if Elli and Widmore were at the same time.. is Daniel Widmore-Elli aka Eloise Hawking's son? Then, is Penny too? Penny and Daniel brother&sister? Wow!!

Posted by: thetruckguy | February 22, 2009 12:56 AM | Report abuse

Bevjims,

I hear what you're saying about Desmond sailing across the Atlantic and taking time but, as you noted, he has already sailed a similar sized yacht around the world so he has the skills. Also, I think the boat is of sufficient size to sail direct to the Panama Canal. Finally, why else would the writers be showing a marina in LA? I can't believe that Penny, Desmond and their baby would fly from London to LA and then live on a boat rather than stay in a hotel room : - )

I just got caught up in some reading this weekend and the latest issue of TV guide has an interview with a child actor who is going to play 13-year old Ben in a 4-show arc which will explain how Ben became "evil". It also said that he would interact with Kate, Jack and others Losties so this must be during the time of the Dharma initiative on the island. As several of the posters speculated above, including me, based upon seeing Jin in a Dharma outfit, the Losties must have landed on the island back in the 70s (or whenever the Dharma initiative was active). It looks like we will be seeing events happening in that time era for a while. This could result in Kate finding out she is pregnant and, yes maybe, eventually giving birth to Charlotte. But, if that is even the case, it wouldn't explain why Charlotte has never seemed to recognize Kate when interacting with her last year.

One other tidbit from the interview with the young Ben, apparently the Lost writers have indicated that at least one of the following events will be true: (1) Ben and Locke are brothers; (2) Miles will be revealed as the Dharma leader's son; (3) Charlotte is the older Annie. I'm pretty sure number 2 is going to be true and I have stated before that I think 3 is true but the Kate being pregnant possibility throws a wrinkle in that theory. Not sure about #1 but if we meet someone on the island in the Dharma time who looks like Locke's mother then will have a clue, I suppose.

The article also said that Ben turned bad because of some interaction with a group (?) other than the Others or the Dharma group. It said we have seen this other "group" before. Any thougths who that might be?

Finally, the article implied that Widmore had been involved with the island "forever" or words to that effect (I don't have the article with me this morning). I have theorized here before that I think he was on the Black Rock. Could he go back further in time much as we've speculated about Richard?

I don't view the TV Guide article as a spoiler. We've had similar speculations on this Blog. It just orients us, perhaps, more directly towards the end game.

Posted by: dojemc | February 23, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

A light bulb just went off: we were debating why Widmore doesn't use Mrs. Hawking to get back to the island now. The answer: he doesn't WANT to get back to the island now. Remember: his reason for finding it last season was (or appears to be) to find Ben and get 'im. Very possibly Widmore DID use Mrs. Hawking to find the island last season and send his freighter full of mercenaries. But now that Ben's back in the real world, he has no motivation to locate the island again.

Posted by: PQSully | February 23, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

"To PQSully:
I enjoyed your recent posts. Some excellent catches."

Thanks, MrMerkin!

"Something very traumatic must have happened to Kate. In one scene she adamantly gets into her car and drives away, obstinately opposed to returning to the island, and just hours later she’s at Jack’s ready and willing to hop back to the island and apparently ready and willing to hop back on Jack."

YES! And then the next day on the plane, she's withdrawn and surly towards Jack and everyone. Something is going on with Katie-Moodswing for certain.

Posted by: PQSully | February 23, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

PQSully -

"...he doesn't WANT to get back to the island now."

Bingo! That just plain feels right! Also, I am suddenly wondering if Ben could be Widmore's son. There is so much competition and animosity between them, and there is so much father/son conflict in the story that it just might be possible. And more and more characters are being revealed to be related.

It's like somewhere in the way-back-when-back all was well on The Island (The Garden?) until conflict broke out and people were expelled and the conflict continues on through the generations.

"The way-back-when-back" is a handy term from the book Riddley Walker - about the future and the past. It's hard to read but well worth it.

Posted by: camis | February 23, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I think that Locke does NOT commit suicide. Christain Shepard told him he had to die, and that there had to be "sacrifices". I think that BEN convinces Locke that he is a sacrifice to the island. While Locke may willingly place the noose around his neck, I think Ben actually pulls the rope. Ben would not see it as "murder", as he is performing a sacrifice. Human sacrifices have biblical and ancient Egyptian ties.

Posted by: mcsimp9299 | February 23, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Camis, I thought we knew who Ben's dad was; Roger Workman. Wasn't Ben born on the shoulder of the road in Washington State? Roger was there. The mother died in childbirth, correct? Of course, knowing the Lost writers,I suppose we don't really know if Roger was the father. He just blames Ben for Ben's mother's death. I don't recall what lead Roger and Ben to the Island except that Roger thought he would have a bigger role than just being a "workman." Long-winded way of saying, maybe your theory will have some legs.

McSimp, you could be right. Remember, Locke didn't "kill" his father. He had Sawyer do it. So maybe Locke can't kill himself either. He has Ben do it.

Posted by: dojemc | February 23, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

dojemc: - Yer totally right about Workman. My idea comes mostly from the fact that so many characters are related to each other without knowing it - and that Widmore could be Ben's REAL father. I think it's far-fetched too... but the paternal surprises keep coming.

Maybe little Aaron is Ben's father, haha, at the rate this show is unfolding. Can't wait for Wednesday.

Posted by: camis | February 23, 2009 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Hi all. I've been sick for the past few days. Nasty sinus infection and bronchitis. Got my antibiotics, flonase and a few days bedrest. That and sugar cookies brought me back to life. Who needs a spooky island?

dojemc wrote: "The article also said that Ben turned bad because of some interaction with a group (?) other than the Others or the Dharma group. It said we have seen this other "group" before. Any thougths who that might be?"

I'd guess Henry Gail and his wife, who Sayid dug up when trying to verify Ben was telling the truth about Ben being Henry Gail. That was when Sayid found Gail's balloon and the grave of Gail's wife as described by Ben, but dug up the grave and found both Henry Gail and his wife. So far we know nothing about them. But if the Gails were trying to get to the island they may have been hired by Dharma and then conspired with Ben to work with the others to kill Dharma.

One thing about the sonic fence: You'd need to know what smokey was in order to build a fence. So Dharma must have known what smokey was, or at least how to keep it out. That points to Widmore supplying them the information, so I'm guessing Widmore and Hanso are one in the same or working together.

mcsimp9299,
Good ideas on Locke not killing himself. I can see Ben killing him, willingly or not. Christian didn't tell Locke how he was to die, did he? Just that he had to die to save the island?

Back to bed and more sugar cookies...

Posted by: bevjims1 | February 23, 2009 11:05 PM | Report abuse

thetruckguy -

Exactly what I was thinking. So now that we're pretty sure that "1954 Ellie" is Eloise Hawking, is it possible, since she and Widmore are island contemporaries, that Daniel Faraday is Ellie's child with Widmore? That would make Faraday and Penny half-brother and sister, if Ellie is not also Penny's mom. They did say that Widmore funded all of Faraday's research... is it possible it's because Daniel's his son?

Posted by: theladyhamlet | February 24, 2009 2:32 AM | Report abuse

Also, Charlotte and Ben both have those creepy ice-blue eyes... maybe Ben *is* her father...

Posted by: theladyhamlet | February 24, 2009 2:34 AM | Report abuse

Also, Charlotte and Ben both have those creepy ice-blue eyes... maybe Ben *is* her father...
Posted by: theladyhamlet

Remember that when Ben first saw Charlotte he tried to put a bullet in her and was "surprised" she was wearing a bullet proof vest. So I doubt she is Ben's daughter. But how did she know to wear a bulky bullet proof vest on a tropical island? She must have learned it from someone who time/mind travels and gave her warnings before. Faraday is my guess since he cared for her so much and even earned her not to come back to the island when she was a child.

As to Charlotte's parenthood, I'm heavily leaning toward Kate and Jack, with Kate carrying fetus Charlotte at this moment. And since that makes Charlotte Christian Shepard's grand daughter, I expect Charlotte will also ressurect as Christian did. Its all in the family on Lost!

Posted by: bevjims1 | February 24, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Also, Charlotte and Ben both have those creepy ice-blue eyes... maybe Ben *is* her father...
Posted by: theladyhamlet

The man's idea of romance is a big ham dinner. I'm sure Ben's a 40 year old virgin.

Posted by: bevjims1 | February 24, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Bevjims, Your last comment made me laugh. It sure may explain why Ben has been in such an overall foul mood during his time on the show.

I've been thinking about Kate and her apparent ability to walk away from Aaron while at the same time seeming to be in a depressed state. I think what we are going to find out is that Kate's reason for going back to the island is that someone has convinced her that the only way to save Aaron is by going back to the island to take some action. Who did the convincing (my money's on Ben - he sure was busy in the brief time he left Ms. Hawking's cellar!)and what she has to do on the island is up in the air. Why she jumped Jack is not quite clear except to emphasize, perhaps, that she and Jack are not 40 year old virgins : - )

Posted by: dojemc | February 25, 2009 7:47 AM | Report abuse

Do you think Matthew Fox gives unconsiously gives things away since he already knows the ending? For instance in the scene where he changes Locke's shoes, he says "wherever you are john....this is even crazier than you are". Should'nt he have said crazier than you 'were'?

Posted by: skinsfan6465 | February 25, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

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