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Posted at 10:25 AM ET, 02/24/2010

'Lost' Dueling Analysis: 'Lighthouse'

By Liz Kelly
Lost

In which Jen and Liz -- who have no doubt their fate is to over-analyze the best sci-fi drama on TV -- dissect the minutiae of season six's fourth episode and do so without the assistance of any helpful dead people to serve as a guide. Read the analysis, add your comments, then join in the 2 p.m. ET "Lost" Hour chat. Oh, and in the meantime, visit "Lost" Central to complete the immersion.

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Hurley (Jorge Garcia, left) convinces Jack (Matthew Fox) to join him in a little jungle stroll. (ABC)

Liz: So Ben Linus and John Locke wasted all this time hoping they were special when it turns out that all along the special one is -- at least per tonight's episode and Jacob -- Jack Shephard. Not that surprising, considering the hints we had that season six would largely mirror (mirror!) season one. The show's first season really was anchored by Jack, so a return to that model isn't entirely a surprise.

And for anyone keeping score -- is someone, please? -- I think we're still racking up more questions than answers. F'rinstance -- who is off-island Jack's baby mamma and where did they find a kid actor who could match Matthew Fox for off-putting intensity?

Jen: Intense? Sure. I don't find it off-putting necessarily. I will say that the young actor who played David Shephard bore a weird resemblance to Matthew Fox. Didn't look exactly like him, but something about the shape of his face and expressions was very, very similar. Kudos to the casting directors.

I had the same thought re: his baby mamma. The natural assumption is that David is Jack's and Sarah's child. But the fact that the writers made a point of not saying that outright makes me think we will soon realize the baby has another mother. Who? I'm not sure.

Much more analysis after the jump...

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Jen: One more thing: In the spirit of biblical references, let's consider David, who is considered "the chosen one." A citation from the succinct summary on the David Wikipedia page:

The prophet Samuel seeks a new king for his people from the sons of Jesse of Bethlehem. Seven of Jesse's sons pass before Samuel, but Samuel says "The LORD has not chosen these." He then asks "Are these all the sons you have?" and Jesse answers, "There is still the youngest but he is tending the sheep." David is brought to Samuel, and "the LORD said, 'Rise and anoint him; he is the one.'"
God sends an evil spirit to torment Saul and his attendants suggest he send for David. Saul does so and makes David one of his armor-bearers and "whenever the spirit from God came upon Saul, David would take his harp and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him."

Please take note of tending the sheep (Shephard) and the reference to harp playing. Not a piano, but darn close.

Liz: That is some interesting reading. So perhaps David can play his piano, thereby forcing the evil spirit to leave someone.

Speaking of David and that piano, there were some interesting audience members at the recital -- namely an off-island version of Dogen with a son of his own

It was a bit of a throwaway moment, kind of a "Oh, that's neat." But knowing there are no real throwaway moments on this show, I was struck by the similarities between Dogen and Jack. I think you've made some similar comparisons in the past. Both are leaders of their respective groups and now we learn that both have sons off island and, not to leap to any conclusions (perish the thought), but when we got a world tour courtesy of the lighthouse mirrors, we saw -- in addition to Jack's childhood home -- a scene of what appeared to be a pagoda or series of pagodas. I'm guessing that was meant to reflect Dogen's origins.

Jen: Hmmm. You could be right. My take on the images in those lighthouse mirrors (seriously, where in the hieroglyphics did that thing come from? More on that later) was that the pagoda was the location where Jin and Sun were married, and the church was where Sawyer's parents' funeral was held. Or something like that. I thought it was a reflection of the fact that Jacob had been watching all of them all along, since that's what Jacob wanted Jack to realize.

Liz: It's worth pointing out here that as far as we know those images could have represented anything. My take on the stone church we saw was that it was the monastery where Desmond had taken holy orders -- as I recall the church where Sawyer's parents were memorialized was a white clapboard affair. And, to go way out on a limb here, I think Desmond may be the new arrival Jacob is expecting on island.

Jen: I don't think that limb is so far out there. And I say that because I'm perched on it with you.

Liz: But yes, this was obviously Jacob's version of a crystal ball and he'd long been watching "the candidates" in those mirrors. I guess what I'm suggesting is that Dogen himself was brought to the island at some point in much the same way as the Losties.

And welcome to the perch. There's plenty of room.

Jen: Okay, I'm with you on Dogen. The question is when he was brought to the island. I had assumed he and other temple people were part of that whole Black Rock contingent, but if Dogen's running around in 2004 with Jack, I'm not sure. Now re: Desmond...

Naturally, when Hurley took Jack to a lighthouse, one of the first things I thought of was Virginia Woolf's "To the Lighthouse." As, you know, I am sure many people did. And where is "To the Lighthouse" set? The Isle of Skye in Scotland. (Hmmm, who do we know that's Scottish?)

As Wikipedia notes, the prose in that Woolf story is often hard to follow, which is why I hated reading it in English class. But the themes regarding the power of childhood memory and emotion also seem relevant here, given what Jack saw in his/Jacob's lighthouse: his childhood home.

Liz: And Jacob did visit many of the "candidates" when they were children. Though as far as we know, Jacob's only off-island visit to Jack was when Jack was very much an adult.

Jen: Key words: as far as we know.

So do you think that lighthouse has always been there and no one ever bothered to notice a massively tall tower?

Liz: Well, as Hurley said, maybe we didn't see it because we weren't looking for it. Or, you know, because the writers didn't have need of it until season 6, episode 4.

Jen: Or two other scenarios: Jacob put it there purely to make Jack do what he needs to do. (Assuming that Jacob can do that, and I'm not entirely sure since he's supposed to be dead.) Or, if the bomb detonation reset things on the island as we've discussed in the past, maybe the lighthouse wasn't there in previous island timelines but has been there all along in this one?

I don't know, after referencing the Bible and Virginia Woolf, that might be all the smarts you get from me in one analysis.

Liz: Or perhaps the lighthouse, like Jacob, only reveals itself when needed -- kind of like Avalon rising from the mists around Glastonbury. And as for you and a smarts quota -- I'll believe it when I see it.

So, about those names on the dial. Just another version of last week's cave list?

Jen: From what I could see on my screen, the names seemed similar. And Jack was still 23. Also, did that lighthouse dial remind anyone else of the frozen donkey wheel?

Liz: It did, but in a much more hospitable setting. No ice, nice view.

On the journey to the lighthouse Jack and Hurley stumbled onto some familiar ground -- the caves, which allowed Jack to hold forth to Hurley a bit more about his daddy issues. In fact, Jack says his dead father led him to the cave. Which sounded dangerously close to an acceptance that Christian Shephard had, well, shepherded Jack towards his destiny. If only Jack knew what that destiny was meant to be.

And Jacob echoed that sentiment when he told Hurley that Jack needed to find his own way to whatever his fate may be. Though I think it stunk that he had to dis Hurley in the process, saying "Some people you can just get in a cab..."

Jen: I know, right? "Yeah, some people are so dumb they'll believe you and even haul around a guitar case because you said so. Other people need to think a little harder first." Cut to Jack, looking like a meditating Zen master on a mountaintop.


Hurley keeps Jacob's instructions at arm's length. (ABC)

I found it a little ridiculous that all Hurley had to say to motivate Jack to join him on his journey was to quote Jacob's "You have what it takes." Like, I get that Jack has father issues. Fine. But that button was pressed so easily. There were portions of the dialogue between Jack and Hurley tonight that felt a little forced to me. Like maybe the writers, a la Jacob, were just putting us where they needed us to be.

Liz: Totally agreed and here's why: Of all the people Jack could open up to about his inner emotional struggle, I just don't think Hurley would be his go-to guy. And, well, it's out of character. Jack just isn't given to extended exposition about his feelings. We just needed to be picked up and placed in the right spot from which to view -- or judge -- Jack Shephard.

Though, the "You do/don't have what it takes" isn't the worst summary of the emotionally crippled man that is Jack Shephard. Tonight we saw him lose his cool (smashing the mirrors) because he is so desperate to find proof that he does have what it takes. He wants to be a man of faith... in himself, and is fighting for that. So I'm maybe not as surprised as you that that simple line got Jack to follow Hurley to the lighthouse.

Jen: Well, I wasn't shocked. It echoes back to what Christian said to a younger Jack in (surprise!) episode five of season one. It just seemed a little pat, that's all. But perhaps we should switch gears to off-island Jack, who I think may have finally reached that goal you just talked about.

Revisiting, again, ep. 5 of S1 (that's "White Rabbit," for those of you following along in your workbooks): at the end of that episode, Jack first makes his "live together, die alone" speech. Which suggests that, despite what his father said about not having what it takes, Jack really has the capacity to be a leader.

And in L.A., Jack really put his son ahead of himself. He did the thing his father could not: He made it very clear that his love for David is unconditional. And I think he realized that the best way to resolve his issues with his own father is to be a better, more loving and present dad to his own son. In other words -- to get biblical again -- he accepts that maybe he isn't "the chosen one." But maybe his son could be.

Liz: I think maybe this was handled a bit roughly, too. The only real evidence we had that Jack was anything but a loving, albeit weekend visitation only, dad was at the end of the episode when David tells Jack that his focus on his piano playing scared him. If the writers wanted to show some actual emotional growth, they maybe they should have had Jack start off the episode as an emotionally absent dad.

But maybe he came back from Sydney a changed man. The death of a parent will do that to you.

Jen: Yes, I think that's a fair assumption. Especially since we also saw Jack listening to that voice mail message to David, in which he said he really wanted to hear his son's voice right after the elder Dr. Shephard died. Christian's death undoubtedly had an impact.

Liz: Speaking of off-island Jack, we find out -- courtesy of a Botoxed Veronica Hamel -- that one Claire Littleton is mentioned in his father's will. So, yet again, we're getting set up for the intersection of two more characters in this new timeline.

Jen: Interesting, by the way, that Christian's coffin is lost in Berlin. Maybe Elsa has it. And yes, interesting that Jack's mom didn't know, well, Jack about Claire.

Liz: I thought maybe you were going to shoot off into an explanation of how this all ties in to Berlin (the band's) "Take My Breath Away," one of the songs featured on the soundtrack of Tom Cruise's "Top Gun" which, as far as we know, has everything to do with "Lost."

Jen: Well, that does connect back to Ethan (another Mapother). But no more words, Liz. And no more promises. Let's instead discuss Jack's appendix.

Liz: Listen, I'm just riding on the metro. There's a soldier sitting next to me.

But yes, Jack's appendix...

Jen: I love it. We're making "Lost" about Berlin on the heels of Doc Jensen's so-crazy-you-gotta-love-it column about "Lost" and Huey Lewis. Appreciated his theories, although his analytical masterpiece put a huge damper on the big thesis I've spent months working on: Why "Lost" is Really a Show About Night Ranger. "Sister Christian"? Coincidence? Please.

Anyhoo, let's get back to Dr. Shephard's vital organs.

Liz: As long as you promise we can talk about Bonnie Tyler later.

Jen: So Jack was very fixated on his appendix scar in the episode's opening scene. Which seemed pretty darn prominent if, as his mother contends, he had it removed when he was, what did she say, 7, I think?

Liz: Seven or eight -- but I seem to recall Jack having it out on island with an assist from... was it Juliet?

Jen: Ding ding ding! Sure was. And a scar that visible would be much more in line with him having it removed in the more recent past, perhaps by a pretty blond fertility specialist.

Speaking of Juliet, I have some breaking news. And by news, I mean half-cocked theories circulating at this very moment on the Internet.

Some people are suggesting that perhaps David's mother is Juliet. No evidence for it. But it would certainly be interesting if Jack and Juliet were together off the island as a result of Jack essentially forcing her to detonate the bomb.

Liz: Eenteresting. That thought -- that Juliet is David's mom -- did cross my mind when Jack went to her house, but I dismissed it -- not having seen any fertility doc paraphernalia laying around. Now I see I should have broadcast it on Twitter.

I believe we were getting to on-island Claire, who is pretty creepy herself.

Jen: Indeed she is. I have to say, I'm enjoying getting to see the freak-a-deak side of Emilie de Ravin. She was always so cuddly before. Now she's dirty and scary and oddly reminiscent of Kathy Bates in "Misery."


Stay away from this woman: Claire Littleton (Emilie de Ravin). (ABC)

Liz: But it does seem as if Dogen was right. Claire does seem to be a darker version of herself. If we didn't believe it before, there was little doubt after she dispatched whathisname with an ax to the abdomen.

Jen: Here's a question: Jin asked Claire how long she's been living like a psycho dirtball (paraphrase), and she said since they (the Losties) left. To which Jin replied: that was three years ago. But was it?

Liz: Well, to Jin and the rest of the Losties it has been three years, correct? But -- you're right -- since Claire didn't make the detour to 1977 or leave the island, we aren't really sure where she -- or the rest of the island -- is in the timeline.

Jen: True. I'm just wondering what year it actually is on the island. We're assuming 2007, but I am not sure. One reason I say that: I am still convinced that the young boy we saw last week is Aaron. And he's clearly older than 3.

Liz: Yes. And she's obviously had plenty of time to become properly cracked -- living in a hovel with that cooler baby and a case of dynamite.

Jen: Oh my God! That freaky animal skull baby, who is like some reject prop from "It's Alive"? That was one of the more disturbing images I've seen on "Lost," which is saying something.

Liz: Yeah. Try being pregnant and seeing that. I can't wait until that image pops up in a delivery dream.

But I think it's safe to assume that MIB -- and Claire -- are headed to the temple. And that is part of the reason Jacob is glad Hurley and Jack are no longer there. But who is still there anyway? Sayid and Miles? Sawyer left;, Kate has left; Jin is with Claire; and Jack and Hurley are sightseeing.

Jen: Good point, it's just Miles and good 'ol infected Sayid. So who cares, really? (Kidding!)

But Claire made a point of saying that she knew the temple people had Aaron. And she knew that because her friend (MIB, we know now) told her. But also her father. Is it possible that MIB was assuming Christian's form this whole time? Why would Daddy Shephard steer her wrong?

Liz: I think some of our astute readers have floated that theory before -- that the specter of Christian Shephard is, like all other dead reanimated people, a manifestation of MIB. And if so, then a MIB Christian would steer her wrong in order to set her up to -- oooh! -- kill her own brother.

I'm talking out of a body part here that is not my mouth, you understand.

Jen: I have no idea what body part you mean. But I think it sounds like Claire might want to kill Kate. If, that is, Aaron really is in some hotel with Claire's mother, as we last saw him when mama Kate abandoned him.

Liz: That is true. She did say she would kill her. Though the new Claire doesn't seem to need much provocation to kill anyone. I was a bit worried about Jin. And, as you point out, that kid we saw last week -- the one that schooled MIB on "the rules" -- did bear a striking resemblance to the Littletons.

But maybe we should stop here so we can (in private) return to our vastly more important discussion of '80s pop. Then we can pick up the "Lost" thing again at 2 p.m. in the "Lost" Hour chat where you can hold forth on your theories about the reemergence of our bony old friends Adam and Eve.

Jen: Liz, ain't nothing going to break my stride as I race to join the 2 p.m. discussion later this afternoon.

Liz: Now you're pulling things out of your non-mouth body part. Talk to you at 2.

By Liz Kelly  | February 24, 2010; 10:25 AM ET
Categories:  Lost  
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Comments

I'm number one!
I'm number one!

Take that, all you losers!

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 24, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

OK, before reading the above, let me say it again, for those with 25-foot thick skulls who, thus, haven't figured it out yet -- JACK IS AN IDIOT. A HUBRIS-FILLED, ITS-ALL-ABOUT-JACK, SCREW EVERYTHING UP EVERYTIME IDIOT.

Thankfully, Jacob knows how to bring good out of evil, and the smashing of the lighthouse mirrors will have little ultimate effect.

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 24, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

New arrival to the island? My prediction is it's Widmore. He's going to finally make it back and that storyline will get resolved.

Posted by: Dr_Bob | February 24, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

And if this episode inferred that anyone was "the special one," it was HUGO.

Good old loveable Hurley, the one who is most pure of heart and, thus, is able to see and hear Jacob, and who is able to walk with Jacob. The same Hurley who properly said to Jack, "I'm not listening to you!" after Charlie gave his life trying to save them.

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 24, 2010 10:42 AM | Report abuse

The lead character on the interesting-but-now-canceled "Kings" (which was an adaptation of the biblical story of David) was also named David Shepherd. The "Lost" writers have had great fun with the Shepherd family, haven't they? (Christian and David, we get, but Jack -- any connection other than the movie "Frequency"?)

I agree that Widmore is coming. That storyline has been neglected for too long, and he has to have a role in whatever resolution is coming.

Posted by: Janine1 | February 24, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

By the way, that little Jack-Hurley discussion about the skeletons in the cave? The writers are totally messing with the longtime fans. I'm sure they will eventually give us an answer, but that was just a little too inside-jokey.

Posted by: Janine1 | February 24, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

**I think it stunk that he had to dis Hurley in the process, saying "Some people you can just get in a cab..."**

Wow. I hate to say it, but you two really are CLUELESS.

That was a compliment -- Hugo trusts the good and is happy to do the will of the good. Jack, on the other hand, is an arrogant, self-centered donkey who has to be pushed and manipulated to do the right thing.

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 24, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Loved the Alice reference, especially since the copy they showed was the same version I have, The Annotated Alice. Jack also mentions liking "Kitty and Snowdrop", who are the two kittens Alice has in Through the Looking Glass -- one black and one white. And of course, the first Jack-centric episodes in season one, the one that Jack references when he's talking about following his father's ghost, was called White Rabbit -- another Alice reference.

Posted by: moonwatcher13 | February 24, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Also liked that the spare key to Jack's ex's house was hidden under a rabbit statue.

Posted by: Janine1 | February 24, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Going along with the Biblical references--Jack can often be a nickname for John, or Johnathan, who was King David's best friend...more like a brother than a friend, actually. Johnathan is killed and David becomes king.

Posted by: Sassyfras | February 24, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I agree with those who say Jacob wasn't trashing Hurley at all. Some people are open to new experiences and paths, some need to think very carefully and process it all. Jack isn't better than Hurley, and Hurley isn't more naive. They're just different.

Posted by: Dr_Bob | February 24, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Even though it was supposed to be intense and dramatic, I kept chuckling whenever Claire started raving about the Others taking her son -- with that Australian accent, I kept expecting her to shout "A dingo took my baby!"

Posted by: NotDoc | February 24, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

One thought about the person that Jacob is expecting to visit the island: I think Desmond is a good guess, but my first gut reaction was...Sideways World Jack. As in, Jacob was awaiting the "arrival" of his other-world consciousness to blend with Island Jack to produce the candidate-worthy Jack he's been waiting for. Just spit-balling here.

Posted by: chadlow22 | February 24, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Jack wasn't manipulated against his will or knowledge by the "what it takes" line. He recognized that Jacob was telling him via Hurley that he knew a meaningful piece of info about Jack's past that he couldn't possibly know by all the rules of the normal world.

Posted by: UniqueID | February 24, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I don't think Jacob mean it to be insulting, but the reality is that it is so, to be told to your face that you're a complacent follower who can just be ordered around while more sophisticated people have to be manipulated more delicately. The fact that Jacob finds Hurley's tractability to be a positive says more about Jacob than it does about Hurley.

Posted by: UniqueID | February 24, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Actually, the night's best line was Claire's "That's not John, that's my friend!" Creepy!

Posted by: csteiger | February 24, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

I also think that Widmore is the one who is coming. Widmore and Linus both seemed to think that neither of them could get back to the Island. But Ben is back, and the rules have changed.

Posted by: Ghak | February 24, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

I thought Emilie de Ravin was good in this episode. She's bat guano crazy and so completely different from our sweet little unwed mother from earlier. I thought it was interesting that she already knew MIB was not John Locke.

btw, the overly botoxed Veronica Hamill implied to Jack that his son was afraid of him the same way Jack had been afraid of Christian as a boy. Jack seemed perplexed by that which may mean he thought he was so much different/better as a dad but was actually making the same mistakes as Christian.

Posted by: jes11 | February 24, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Ok, so I immediately assumed Jacob was trying to get Desmond back to the island... which would mean 108=Hume. I looked through all the lighthouse pictures from the link Jen and Liz added, and 108=Wallace. Who is Wallace? Also, 51=Austen and it was not crossed out.

Did anyone else wait for David to say he was listening to Drive Shaft when Jack asked him what he was listening to and David replied "you wouldn't know them"?

Posted by: needmoredesmond | February 24, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

As Hurley was turning the wheel with the people's names he insisted they had to get to 108. (Another one of our favorite numbers.) I wonder whose name is listed next to 108 - Kate?

Posted by: BurkeMom | February 24, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

I take that back, looking through the pictures of hte wheel, Austen (Kate) is listed as 51, and is not crossed out. 51 is not one of the numbers, and still leaves me to wonder who is 108!

Posted by: BurkeMom | February 24, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

BurkeMom, 108 is "Wallace," a name we haven't encountered, and speculation of some on lostpedia is that it could relate to Desmond (in that Wallace is a Scottish name and Desmond Hume is Scottish). A bit of a stretch there, but there's also the fact that Des is still a starring character (Henry Ian Cusick is in the lead credits) but has barely appeared all year, so he must have a more important role coming up (though again, it doesn't have to be as Wallace).

Posted by: UniqueID | February 24, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Wallace was crossed out.

The number 108 is the sum of The Numbers, which Desmond had to put in the computer every 108 minutes.

The same Numbers that are connected to Hugo.

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 24, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

needmoredesmond, I absolutely expected it to be Driveshaft!

Posted by: Janine1 | February 24, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Ladies, I'm out on that limb with you on Desmond coming to the island, but I also disagree about Jacob trashing Hurely. I thought that was the best line of the night; "Some people, you can just jump in the back of their cab and tell them what to do....others, you have to let sit and stare out at the ocean for a while."

If anything, Jacob probably likes that Hurley makes things easy on him by just doing what Jacob tells him to do. Jacob's obviously trying to accomplish something, and WANTS the Losties to do what he tells them, to move toward their goal. Who knows for what ethereal reason each of them were "chosen" as a candidate, but Jack's probably the one that makes Jacob roll his eyes "Oh, that Sheppard guy - I've got to think a few extra minutes on how to get him to go to the Lighthouse..."

Posted by: DaveB2 | February 24, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Even though we don't know who Wallace is... there's no way they are bringing in a new character at this point in the show. Especially one that stands for the sum of all the candidates (that aren't crossed out)... its too important. We haven't see Desmond (besides in S6 ep 1 on the plane) since he and Ben got into it at the marina. Eloise Hawking told him the island wasn't done with him yet... he needs to be back in the storyline soon.

Posted by: needmoredesmond | February 24, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"Even though we don't know who Wallace is... there's no way they are bringing in a new character at this point in the show."
I really wish I could beieve that, needsmoredes, but...Dogen and the whole fun-loving temple gang? David? Young kid running around island who might or might not be young Jacob and/or Aaron? I wouldn't put it past them at all to land a freighter full of new people for us to assimilate around episode 14.

Posted by: UniqueID | February 24, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

I think Locke is special. Last week, I dont think enough was said about the signficance of MIB (in locke's body) saying: "dont tell me what I cant do!" a phrase used by locke supposedly before his body was inhabited by MIB. I think this means that the MIB always inhabited John Locke from the very beginning.

Posted by: skitch00 | February 24, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

I agree that Widmore is coming. Is it odd that Kate was not listed on the wall as a candidate?

Posted by: njshore | February 24, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Um no, the best line was clearly: "How come we never noticed this before? Because we weren't looking for it."

Posted by: vypergts | February 24, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

I keep thinking about Jack's son in the alternate/parallel world. This is the clearest sign yet that timelines and events in this world are not entirely the same as in the Island World. I seem to recall that in a previous episode, Jack's ex-wife Sarah was going to deliver a baby and it turns out it was from a second marriage. Is my recollection correct? If so, then perhaps in this off-island world, the baby Sarah delivers is Jack's, not her second husband's. Though, my first thought when I saw Jack go into David's house looking for him is that it is the house ws the one that Jack and Kate lived in. Probably it was but the producers were just using the same set and didn't disguise it enough.

Posted by: Emcdoj | February 24, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I think the young boy we saw last week was jacob. He lloked like him and he was reminding MIB of the rules. Aaron doesn't seem to fit in the timeline if it is 2007 (which I suppsoe we cant be sure yet)

Posted by: skitch00 | February 24, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

I agree with earlier comments about Jacob not insulting Hugo - or Jack for that matter. I think he was just making a statement about people's differences. I think the fact that some would make it an insult says more about that person than Jacob, Hurley or Jack.

Posted by: kenzoan13 | February 24, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

What should we make of Kate being number 51? Is it significant that this is 15 backwards, and 15 *is*, in fact, one of the numbers? (And should Skaters be rejoicing that Ford - 15 and Austen - 51 are thus paired?)

Posted by: numbers4815162342 | February 24, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

I also see Linus as 117. It's crossed out. I know we've learned that the names are crossed out when they are no longer candidates, but does it also seem that it's when the person dies? Linus could stand for Roger, who is dead, but if its Ben... do you think young Ben really died when Sayid shot him, the Temple did not cure him, so he was crossed out?

Posted by: needmoredesmond | February 24, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

LOL @ SKATERS !!!!! HAHAHAA

And here is one vote for Dogen as most annoying unnecessary character!

I think Jacob knew Jack would break the mirror since he never EVER follows directions unless they are spelled out to him in which case he still defies them because he's got issues and likes to ruin everyone's chances of getting off the island because he's frustrated. Obviously Jack = good leader - but he also loses himself in his role by always assuming he knows what's best for everyone and acting on his own accord.

NO one can shephard Jack Shephard! O HO HO ! HOW YOU LIKE ME NOWWW !?!?!

Posted by: abdc | February 24, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

"Jen: True. I'm just wondering what year it actually is on the island. We're assuming 2007, but I am not sure. One reason I say that: I am still convinced that the young boy we saw last week is Aaron. And he's clearly older than 3."

Two weeks ago Aldo told Kate that she had pulled the Wookie prisoner trick on him 3 years ago, so I'm pretty sure everything happening on the Island is 2007. I think Richard might have made a 3-years reference to Locke in season 5 also. In my mind at least, they're hanging out in 2007 right now.

Posted by: gobluegirl | February 24, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

couple points.
Hurley wiping the ink onto his forehead was priceless.
Like Hurley, I Desperately wanted to see the image projected at 108. Jacob didn't seem upset that the breakage might preclude the person who is coming from doing so
The numbers are degrees on a compass as displayed on the large binnalce in the lighthouse

Posted by: chrisgraul | February 24, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

What if Jacob was talking about Jack "finding his way to the island".

Maybe Jacob was trying to let Jack know that he's important and needs to do something for the island.

Posted by: monkeywrench2 | February 24, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Very good ep last night, lots to think about. The one thing that I will disagree with you here is that I think the little stigmata kid is supposed to be a young Jacob. The similarities are too strong. I watched the rerun last night and could definitely tell. Also, if it were Aaron, why did MIB not get him then? Just because he tripped? Made no sense to me.

Posted by: Guest1234 | February 24, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and on a totally shallow note, I found Claire's face really odd--- almost chubby like. I know the actress is really thin, but there was something off about her face. Did anyone else see that?

Posted by: Guest1234 | February 24, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

I think the actress just gained weight. She's chubby in the alternate LA reality too.

I feel like a shmuck noticing it but they really stressed her character in Season 1 as this sweet little pregnant blonde with skinny long flamingo legs ... so the contrast is noticed.

Posted by: abdc | February 24, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I was just wandering: Shouldn't one of the names in Jacob's list (in the cave and in the lighthouse) be Henry Gale?

Posted by: for33 | February 24, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

I had a question about Jack's appendix scar. In the first episode of Jack notices a scratch on his neck in the plane bathroom. Could it be that somehow he knows that something big happened, say that the the bomb went off and they returned back in time to 2004? Even though he's off the island, I think he's going to realize that he either needs to go back or he's an important part in Jacob's/island's plan? Does this make sense?

Posted by: clairbear21 | February 24, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

On the Jack at the lighthouse thing: I'm thinking that Jacob planned on Jack smashing the mirror -- that that was why it was so important for Jack to go with Hurley. I go back to the "it only ends once" bit: my working theory is that, now that Jacob is "dead," this is humanity's last chance to get it right and end the cycle. If that's true, then wouldn't you also want to finish off the instruments that Jacob/MIB have been using to perpetuate the cycle? Like, say, a special magic lighthouse that enables them to watch prospects and then call them to the island?

That would also seem to fit with "Wallace" at 108 being (a) someone we've never heard of, (b) a name that's already been scratched out, and (c) never even mentioned in the show -- it never mattered who 108 actually was, because the whole thing was just a ruse to get Jack up there to smash the thing up. Which also fits with Jacob's sort-of smirk when he makes that "some people you just get in a cab" comment to Hurley -- Jack was more hard-headed, but in the end did just what Jacob wanted.

Posted by: laura33 | February 24, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Suppose they come to a point where they have to choose which reality is the one to be certified “real.” If the “crash” reality is chosen, then the very existence of the son Jack loves unconditionally in the “non-crash” reality is utterly erased. (Same for Dogen’s son.) What would be worth that sacrifice?

Posted by: csteiger | February 24, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Okay. If LA Jack is showing scars and cuts of injuries that Island Jack had, then can we expect to start seeing mysterious bruises and lacerations appearing on Teacher Ben's face?

Posted by: Ghak | February 24, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Other thoughts: so did this episode confirm that Christian was a manifestation of MIB, and not of Jacob? If Christian is telling Claire that the Others have her baby, which is the same thing MIB has been saying. . . . And what does that mean for all of Christian's other appearances? I have to say, my memory is not good enough to recall and rethink what things might have meant in that light.

Also, David: I'm thinking he would have been born @ 1992, yes? He seemed to be @ 12-13 in the episode, which was 2004. I thought the Sarah breakup/pregnancy was later than that (though I could be wrong), so I'm not so big on the Sarah-as-mommy thought (thought always possible, given how many things are different but similar in this new timeline).

Posted by: laura33 | February 24, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

What was the name of the Black Rock officer who had written the logbook that Widmore was buying at an auction? Could his name have been Wallace? I can't remember for sure if they said his name.

Posted by: Ghak | February 24, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

some people have talked about hurley being like a greek chorus, chiming in with the observations that an audience member would make (i'm linking to the slate discussion below).

but, it seems like with this season, the audience is actually being forced to occupy the position of the oceanic survivors in seasons 1-2. that is, we're taking on the very annoying traits that we've lambasted characters like kate and jack for embodying. we assume this show is all about us, that it is "our island," rather than, say, darlton's island. so, when all of this backstory to which we weren't privy (what's the deal with dogen? who are all these other others?...where (in time) are we? what happened?) is called up, we basically want to lash out, like jack did last night (i know i do). we've spent all this time working with certain assumptions (perhaps like jack post-oceanic 6?), and now it's clear that whatever they were, they were wrong.

it's frustrating. we hate it. but, we're going to have to take our "interesting theories," as tom friendly put it back in a season 2 jack-centric episode (it's the episode, incidentally, where jack's ex-wife had a pregnancy test come up negative), and go sulk on the beach. but ultimately, what darlton is saying is what tom said in this episode, "this isn't your island. this is our island, and you only live here because we let you live here."

so, we have a choice. we can take a page out of jack's playbook and be unhappy, lashing out and destroying what we see (criticizing it since we don't have the capability of "fixing" the show the way we'd want).

or, maybe we should all take a page out of rose's playbook and remain optimistic that our bernard (the show we love, whatever that may be for you) will reunite with us before the season is over.

it's also entirely possible that the show is irredeemably infected and that if we don't do something now (like blow up a hydrogen bomb of incisive criticism) it will show itself to actually be a smoke monster in darlton form which will rip our arms off and slam us up against our living room walls.

it's also quite possible (probable?) that i, like liz above, am talking out of a part of my body which is not my mouth.

description of episode where jack's wife gets the negative pregnancy test:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Hunting_Party

link to slate's discussion of lost:

http://www.slate.com/id/2242745/

Posted by: plathman | February 24, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse


So, I was immediately struck by the existence of David Shephard in the flash sideways. Although we've seen some subtle (and not so subtle) differences in the two timelines, one constant theme we seem to be getting again and again is that certain things have to happen -- and the universe "auto-corrects" when something important does not happen as it was originally "intended." We've seen connections like Kate and Claire; also, even though the timeline got reset in 1977, all the Losties who had not been born yet appear still to have been born, including Aaron. Yet now we have a completely new human being! I wondered if what was new in this timeline was NOT that David exists, but that Jack knows about him/ has a role in his life. Maybe Jack always had fathered David, but for whatever reason didn't know he had a son in the original timeline?

I'm probably going out on a limb, but the existence of a totally new human being seems like a HUGE variation between the two timelines that does not quite accord with our self-correcting universe understanding. (Also, the child-that-never-was... or is now? just makes me a bit sad.)

On the other hand, I like the theory that Juliet is David's mom -- and that wouldn't work with my idea.

Posted by: numbers4815162342 | February 24, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

**even though the timeline got reset in 1977**

Even if we accept that there was a "reset," and even if the bomb went off in 1977, that does not necessarily mean that the divergence of timelines began in 1977. Because the Island is unstuck in time, it could have altered history going back hundreds of years.

To be sure, it is pretty apparent that Roger Workman never went to the Island, such that Mr. Linus, history teacher, was never there, and Dr. Ethan Goodspeed likely was born off-Island.

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 24, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

In the chat someone mentioned that perhaps children have "special powers" on the island that allow them to protect adults.

Going with the biblical theme, Jesus speaks very highly of children and the fact that their faith is unconditional. ("Truly I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Matt 18:3)

So maybe children on the island do have some type of special relationship with Jacob that allow them to maybe know more and predict things in ways that the adults cannot.

Posted by: smynola06 | February 24, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

"To be sure, it is pretty apparent that Roger Workman never went to the Island, such that Mr. Linus, history teacher, was never there, and Dr. Ethan Goodspeed likely was born off-Island."

I may be totally wrong, but is that actually apparent? Clearly Ben wasn't raised on the island (post-getting shot anyway), but that may be because the island became uninhabitable after 1977 (we certainly saw it under water). Believe me, I am at least as confused as the next person, but if they managed to change things BEFORE 1977.... well, that really throws me.

Posted by: numbers4815162342 | February 24, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Going further with the biblical theme, MIB making the women unable to carry a baby to term is like Herod and the massacre of the innocents.

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 24, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Well, my strong impression is that there is nothing Islandy about Ben 2.0 or Ethan 2.0. If they had ever been to the Island, it would show. Meanwhile, it looks like Dogen was never an Other or other disciple of Jacob either.

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 24, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

I think you are very mistaken about the Pagoda in the magic mirror.

It looked quite like the place in the background when Jin & Sun got married - where Jacob appeared to them as a wedding guest. Therefore, I came to different conclusion than Jack about the mirror wheel. It was not a passive surveillance device, but an active "portal" that allowed Jacob to go and touch them and perhaps later on the portal through which the Big Island Tractor Beam could pull them in.

I didn't notice which direction the wheel was turning in numerically before Jack hijacked it from Hurley - but Kwon/42 would have been just before Jack/23 if Jack reversed it into descending order. As for the church - it would have belonged to somebody whose number came between 23 and 42 and who is apparently not so relevant to our story, which features 4/8/15/

Posted by: jqw3827 | February 24, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

I think you are very mistaken about the Pagoda in the magic mirror.

It looked quite like the place in the background when Jin & Sun got married - where Jacob appeared to them as a wedding guest. Therefore, I came to different conclusion than Jack about the mirror wheel. It was not a passive surveillance device, but an active "portal" that allowed Jacob to go and touch them and perhaps later on the portal through which the Big Island Tractor Beam could pull them in.

I didn't notice which direction the wheel was turning in numerically before Jack hijacked it from Hurley - but Kwon/42 would have been just before Jack/23 if Jack reversed it into descending order. As for the church - it would have belonged to somebody whose number came between 23 and 42 and who is apparently not so relevant to our story, which features 4/8/15/16/23/42=108.

I don't know why 108 wouldn't have been a group shot from Dharmaville like the photo in Jacob's cabin and not somebody named "Wallace" who was crossed off the list anyway.

Posted by: jqw3827 | February 24, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

An observation, I don't know what it means:

For the past couple of seasons the LOST ID between commercials has been a picture of the island with a REFLECTION in the water of L.A. Somehow thing that correlates to the reflections in the magic mirror, but what does it mean?

Posted by: doobrah | February 24, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Numbers.....: That was exactly my feeling about David. All the other differences between the different worlds/timelines, were fairly subtle. There had never been any indication that Jack had a son in any of the other shows in the first five seasons. Suddenly, we have a teenage, or near teenage, son on the show. So now we have children by Jack, Claire, Jin & Sun, and Sawyer. Any guesses as to whether we'll see kids from Kate, Sayid and Hurley before the show is over? Whether we do or not, is there any unifying significance to these children in the show?

Posted by: Emcdoj | February 24, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Why did Jin lie?

He told Claire the Others had stolen Aaron and were keeping him at the Temple. What the heck was that about?

After living with Sawyer et al for years he would have known that Kate took Aaron off the island. After Kate came back, he might not have had a chance to get caught up on how all that worked out in LA , but he must have known she had taken him three years ago.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 24, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Last week, I too assumed the mystery boy was a young Jacob. I figured the blood came from something bad MIB had done in their shared youth, a al Cain and Abel.

But we really have no idea at this point.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 24, 2010 7:15 PM | Report abuse

1. Reboot Jack remembers the island:

Why did Jack say he didn't know how many years his son had been playing piano? Supposedly he listened intently for hours, presumably before the divorce.

And the appendectomy...

It's as if part of him is still Island Jack and that part is not entirely familiar with his rebooted story line.

2. Jacob vs. MIB and Tic tac toe:

I love Miles. They better not kill him off at the temple. I took his frustration with tic tac toe always ending in a tie (unless you're a child, anyway) as a reference to MIB's frustration with the same ole, same ole cycles he's fought with Jacob. It always ends the same.

3. Red-shirted Hurley.

That's just plain funny. They're messing with the obsessives among us.

4. Adam and Eve

In season one, Jack ID'd them as male and female, roughly 50 years dead. They each had a rock, one white and one black, which he kept. What that means, I don't know.

Years ago, the writers said the eventual reveal on who the skeletons were would prove that they weren't making all this up as they went along. That they had a coherent explanation from the start.

But I agree that Hurley stating our presumption that it's people we already know gone back in time makes that less likely to be true.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 24, 2010 7:52 PM | Report abuse

Re: the mirror and 108

I don't think 108 has anything to do with Wallace. The '108' is the course you have to take to go from the island to the "real" world. When Walt and Michael leave the island in season 2, the others tell them to follow the course '108' on their gauge. I'm pretty sure that Faraday says the same thing to the helicopter pilot back in season 3 or 4.

Follwing the course '108' just happens to take you to the hole in the electro-magnetic net covering the island and thereby allowing you to get to the real world and current time. That same hole would allow a beam of light to leave the island-realm and appear in the real world.

Posted by: hmfmcg | February 24, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

"Candidate" sign at David's audition:

Can anyone read the words at the bottom of the sign at the piano audition. Most of the way down it clearly says "Welcome all candidates." There is smaller text below that, but I can't read it on my DVR.

Whether they are refering to David, as I think someone asked above, or Jack is unclear. I was thinking Jack.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 24, 2010 8:13 PM | Report abuse

As far as the lighthouse being there when they had never seen it before, I was reminded of Jacob's stairway (wrongly interpreted from Hebrew as ladder by some). In Genesis 28:12, it says, "Then he had a dream: a stairway rested on the ground, with its top reaching to the heavens; and God's messengers were going up and down on it." The interesting thing is the footnote to this verse: "The imagery in Jacob's dream is derived from the Babylonian ziggurat or temple tower, 'with its top in the sky,' and with brick steps leading up to a small temple at the top." Sounds a lot like the lighthouse, doesn't it? Well, at least it did to me. Also, the connection to Jacob seemed to make sense.

Posted by: MisterT1 | February 24, 2010 8:56 PM | Report abuse

@plathman:

I totally agree. Thanks for the fine articulation.

I have long believed that the characters are having subjective experiences, that each one is experiencing what he or she "needs" to experience in order to overcome something "bad" from the past, in order to become "better" in some way - in order to move on.

And WE are also quite subjective in our thoughts about the show. Which is how it should be, until we start to get pissed off if we feel something isn't turning out they way we think it "should" - I say let's just kick back and enjoy the ride for the rest of the way.

I enjoy all the theories. Maybe they are ALL valid. It could happen.

So i will now reiterate the theory i am holding onto for dear life - that the island experience represents the experience of The Bardo as described in the sacred texts of Tibetan Buddhism - a period in between one time and the next (eg after death, before rebirth) during which each person travels, sort of, in between things - faces his demons and illusions and overcomes them or doesn't -
only to go through it again and again until they get it right.

Dharma Initiative, the number 108, multiple realities, and other images all suggest a thematic connection to Buddhism. Just like other images suggest a connection to Christianity or Ancient Egypt or or or... lots of things. While I hope there is a resolution after all this, i also hope it will transcend such details and be about a much bigger picture - not about what's "out there" but what's "in us." so there, that's my projection and hope.

someone above said they thought Claire's face looked odd - I totally agree. Not just a little weight gain. Her faced looked like the face of a witch or hag or nag from a children's story. all squashed up, as if her teeth were missing so her jaw looked tiny, out of proportion to the rest of her face. I think she's been scared for a long time - surprised she even remembered Jin.

and to go out on my own limb - i wondered if Little David was actually Aaron as brought up Stateside (I know, with dark hair).

And I'm not so sure Jacob is Mr. Wonderful. Just tossing that out.

Posted by: camis | February 24, 2010 9:30 PM | Report abuse

MeriJ asked, Why did Jin lie?

I think he lied for self-preservation. When he saw Claire take out the Other, he knew she wasn't right in the head. I think he knew telling her what she wanted to hear is the only way he has a chance at survival right now.

I too thought the blonde boy looked like Jacob. Just because Jacob is dead, that sure doesn't mean he's gone, or unable to continue the battle with the smoke monster. Seeing the kid brings back questions about why The Others took the children, the special powers they supposedly have, and where are they now?

Posted by: Kellygirl | February 24, 2010 9:54 PM | Report abuse

MeriJ asked, Why did Jin lie?

I think he lied for self-preservation. When he saw Claire take out the Other, he knew she wasn't right in the head. I think he knew telling her what she wanted to hear is the only way he has a chance at survival right now.

I too thought the blonde boy looked like Jacob. Just because Jacob is dead, that sure doesn't mean he's gone, or unable to continue the battle with the smoke monster. Seeing the kid brings back questions about why The Others took the children, the special powers they supposedly have, and where are they now?

Posted by: Kellygirl | February 24, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Best line of the night: "if there's one that'll kill you on this island, it's infection"

If Aaron is being raised by Kate as if he's her son, won't his last name be Austen?

Tic Tac Toe- the first thing I thought of was "Wargames", where the computer has to learn that there's no way to win. Miles and Hurley learned it, and I'm guessing that MIB and Jacob are learning it

Posted by: echovector | February 24, 2010 9:57 PM | Report abuse

One thing I'm confused about ... Jack seems to know that Claire is his sister (well, half-sister). When did he find that out? Does Claire know that she's Jack's brother?

Also, one comment, more on last week than this week: I don't buy the argument that Jacob somehow pushed/nudged the Losties onto the island originally. For example, so far it seems that the sum total of Jacob's involvement in Jin & Sun's life is he wished them well at their wedding. That doesn't exactly seem like a life-changing thing, wherein they wouldn't have been on Flight 815 except for that trivial event.

I think he's more all-seeing than all-powerful. He cannot change things, and accepts this. This is why he did not interfere when Sayid's wife was about to be hit by a bus. It's almost like he knew this would happen, and was empathetic, but either could not or refused to violate some sort of rules by saving her.

Posted by: marclips | February 24, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Adam and Eve = Rose and Bernard? They separated themselves from the conflict on the island before the explosion. We saw Rose in the "sideways" 'verse but not on the island.

Posted by: cwhere | February 24, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

best line: "you've got ink on your forehead" ...Jacob to Hugo

Posted by: alisamkeith | February 25, 2010 12:06 AM | Report abuse

I noticed Jack's ex wife's house address was 233. Thought I would throw that in to the mix. Personally, I'm a little bugged by all the bible references. I liked when the show seemed to have a history and rules of its own (most of it unknown to us) without following "real world" myth, history and bible verses.

Btw, has anyone else notice that the vast majority of comments do not respond to earlier posts? Just a random string of comments. Like this one. I guess I'm not helping things..

Posted by: balboacruiser | February 25, 2010 12:19 AM | Report abuse

Regarding Jacob: not sure he's the "good" one vs. MIB. In this latest episode his eyes looked particularly weird and kinda creepy when talking to Hurley. Also, there seems to be a "cult" surrounding him...Ilana and the others, willing to brand people, poison them, etc. based on what Jacob tells them (or they think he tells them) to do. Maybe "good intentioned" but we know what the road to hell is paved with...

Posted by: alisamkeith | February 25, 2010 12:33 AM | Report abuse

What tween boy in 2004 has his own answering machine? That was a really clunky way of having Jack learn that information. I guess they wanted to hid who David's mother is, but that was really improbable. The kid should have had a flier for the audition sitting on his desk. The answering machine was dumb. What's he doing, running a business out of his bedroom?

Posted by: Roxie1 | February 25, 2010 12:39 AM | Report abuse

Alisamkeith - Yes he looked really evil and freaky.

Posted by: Roxie1 | February 25, 2010 12:40 AM | Report abuse

to Marclips:
Jack learned that Claire was his half sister from Claire's Mom, who showed up at some kind of memorial or funeral after the Oceanic Six came back from the island.

Posted by: dc-native | February 25, 2010 1:25 AM | Report abuse

What if...

The boy in the jungle IS Aaron because in this timeline, the Others DID take him and keep him at the temple? He's certainly dressed all temple-y other-y. And recall that Smokey was surprised that Sawyer could see the boy; perhaps because hey, he's just a boy, but an important boy.

David is the son of Jack and KATE? I recall last season that many theorized that Kate would become pregnant from her and Jack's pre-Ajira kadonkadonkdonk, thus supporting the idea that they are destined to at least have a child together.

I agree that it is still not clear who is good and who is evil. Jacob is clearly as manipulative as Smokey, but we have no real evidence that his manipulations are for good--only the word of his followers who believe that to be true.

Posted by: PQSully | February 25, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse

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Posted by: nikejordans1 | February 25, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse

MIB-Jacob - which one is good vs. evil:

During the season premiere I was having doubts about this. But last week I jumped back off the fence.

Part of the problem is the casting. The guy who plays Jacob is normally cast in weaselly low life roles. It's the beady eyes, I guess. Isn't he the actor in Mulholand Drive who played the scummy hit man?

I had doubts because MIB seemed to have passion and Jacob seemed cool and impersonal. I never thought MIB was good, but I wondered if maybe he at least didn't thinking that playing board games with the humans was good sport.

But I'm past all that. Jacob doesn't explain why he's doing things. But at least he's very warm toward Hurley, and he seems calm in a way that suggests maturity. MIB, despite being more charismatic, definitely seems to be a liar and comes off as oddly weak as well.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 25, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

So good to know about those football jerseys. Thanks so much.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 25, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Best line of the night - roundup from the comments above:

"if there's one that'll kill you on this island, it's infection"

"How come we never noticed this before? Because we weren't looking for it."

"you've got ink on your forehead"

"That's not John, that's my friend!"

"Some people, you can just jump in the back of their cab and tell them what to do....others, you have to let sit and stare out at the ocean for a while."

But my favorite is still one of the ones that Jen and Liz picked:

"It doesn't say anything on your arm about the door being jammed?"

Posted by: MeriJ | February 25, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Kellygirl answered:

"I think [Jin] lied for self-preservation. When he saw Claire take out the Other, he knew she wasn't right in the head. I think he knew telling her what she wanted to hear is the only way he has a chance at survival right now."

Of course. That makes total sense. I went off track because, until MIB walked up to the tent, I was suspecting it wasn't really Jin there at all.

Occam's Razor wins again. Thanks!

Posted by: MeriJ | February 25, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Interesting that Jack is number 23 don't you think? Psalm 23? The Lord is my Shepard !!! Clearly all of this black/white is good v evil ( think Star Wars and the Force) not merely politics or psychology.

Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil.

In my view, the Epic battle of good v evil is coming and these lives - so dare I say LOST - will be redeemed.

Posted by: Undeterred1 | February 25, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Another nugget from Hurley:

"This is cool, dude. Very old school. You know, you and me, trekking through the jungle, on the way to do something we don't quite understand. Good times."

Posted by: MeriJ | February 25, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Did anybody else think that Jacob brought Jack to the lighthouse so that he could smash the mirrors? It reminded me of MIBLocke-in-a-loophole going to Jacob's cave and throwing one of the rocks (uh-oh - I don't remember if it was the black or the white rock) into the ocean. I ended up thinking that the tower was MIB's like the cave was Jacob's and that the tower was actually MIB's window to the outer world - and now they're gone....

love all the comments - special thanks to to plathman for the musings and to numbers for the thoughts on David's existence.

Posted by: leaf29 | February 25, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

The Tibetan Buddhism passage to afterlife or Purgatory is an interesting concept, as I can't help but laugh at Jin. He seems to always get stuck with pregnant women or women obbessed with their babies--his wife Sun, Danielle (in time travel), and now Claire. It seems that he needs to appreciate childbearing and childraising before he can move on to a higher state.

(Flashback to French science expedition)Along the same lines, we can now see that Danielle was the one who was probably infected, like Claire is now. Ironically Danielle killed her compatriots accusing them of being infected when they were probably saved by the Others in the temple from getting infected by the monster. Danieele was allowed to live freely for years by the monster making her likely one of his "friends" until she was killed.


It will be interesting to see the main characters work their way out of purgatory, although in the alt-timeline they are already over/getting over their issues. (Jack-dadddy issue and Locke-handicap-"don't tell me what I can't do" issue)

Posted by: KevinAF | February 25, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Balboaacruise: I noticed the lack of responses as well. Except for this response of course : - )

Posted by: Emcdoj | February 25, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Other thoughts:

I think Jin lied about Aaron being at the temple to protect Kate, not to protect himself. Remember the sequence of events (if I remember them that is): Jim tells Claire that Kate took the baby off island three years before. Tied-up guy says, "see, Aaron isn't at the temple". Claire still kills tied-up guy anyways because she felt he would have killed her. Jin recognizes that Claire isn't working with a full deck and changes his story to say that Aaron is at the temple because he fears she will kill Kate when she runs into her. Now, the flaw in his reasoning is that when they all get back to the temple and Claire realizes that Aaron isn't there, and that Jin lied, she might then kill Jin. Either Jin didn't think this thru or his real interest was in protecting Kate, not himself. I think the latter is the case.

I agree with Merij that the best line was Jack's to Hurley about the lack of instructions on Hurley's arm on how to deal with the jammed lighthouse door.

Finally, I didn't realise that Lost was doing a promotional tie-in with the NFL. I want me some of those shirts.

Posted by: Emcdoj | February 25, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

The numbers and our flight 815 candidates:

It's bothered me that the "numbers" were established some time ago -- the Valenzetti Equation, etc. -- yet most of the names in the cave/lighthouse have different numbers by them. If only the Valenzetti numbers matter, why would MIB/Jacob be concerned with all those other names?

But then I noticed that several of the flight 815 names in the lighthouse look different, as if filled in more recently. See images below. (Ford and Austen, however, do not look newly written.)

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/gallery/g667962ccddc4bce1b1367d0f653a7228/

So maybe those slots were left blank until the most likely candidate appeared? Or maybe the names in those key slots are erased and moved elsewhere as the candidate is eliminated?

Posted by: MeriJ | February 25, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Really, finally (for today anyway - work awaits), I'm still holding out for MIB to be the "good" guy in this tic-tac-toe game rather than Jacob. You've got to admit, if they handle it right (Plathman, I'm thinking of you), finding out that MIB is good, and has been wronged for eons by Jacob, or someone higher than Jacob, would be a great twist to ending the story. Or not.

Posted by: Emcdoj | February 25, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, I'm just back from vacay and haven't gotten to read all the comments yet.
During the chat yesterday, someone from Milwaukee mentioned this:
"The seven ancient wonders of the world include 2 statues (Collossus of Rhodes and Zeus at Olympia), a temple (Artemis at Ephesus) and a lighthouse! (Lighthouse of Alexandria)

The others remaining: Hanging Gardens of Babylon
Mausoleum of Maussollos at Halicarnassus
Great Pyramid of Giza"

Hanging Gardens could be akin to the Orchid
Mausoleum - pit of Dharma or caves
Pyramid - as LizJen mentioned, with the heiroglyphs everywhere (even in the hatch), it wouldn't be a huge stretch.

I don't think that the kid from last week is Aaron, though. I think it's another version of Jacob. The first thing that popped into my mind was that Jacob reflected some kind of phoenix - rising from the ashes after burning. He's obviously spiritually alive and well.

OR. That kid isn't Zack, is it? The kid from the 815 who we saw in the temple a couple weeks ago? I didn't get a good look at him.

Ach, too much thinking too fast after a week of not thinking on another tropical island (Key West).

Posted by: eet7e | February 25, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Re: plathman's comments on us, the audience:

So true. I've been home sick the last two days and this afternoon I read a number of comments at other websites. Wow. The audience is really feeling the pressure of this last season.

There's no pleasing everyone. Some people hate the slower character-driven episodes, whereas others people find the action-driven ones overly trite. Many people think the "reveal" episdoes are annoyingly diversionary unless they only answer old questions.

Many people hate kate and jack, of course, but others think miles and hurley are boring throwaway characters. (??!!)

Each episode this season is either the best ever or "total crap."

I'm loving them all. The test for me is whether they stay in my head as the week passes. If I keep thinking about it and keep making new connections, something must be right.

I do think the evolutionary progress our heroes are making in the 815b/LA X timeline feeds back to help determine the outtcome on the island. Lost is as least as much about the character development as the resolution of the gee-whiz mysteries.

It's just a great damn show.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 25, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

This may be a bit off episode, but only minorly...

Claire had told Jin that both her Dad (christian) and also her firend (smokey) told her the temple had her baby.

Stay with me...

She also said, "That's not John, that's my friend!" when Smokey showed up.

Ok, so Christian, in my opinion, is not inhabited by Smokey. Wouldn't Claire have known her "dad" to be "her friend"? How would she have known John Locke was dead in the first place, she's been going crazy on the island for an unknown number of years. (Yeah, maybe its 2007 still but I just don't buy that).

So the question is now, where/who is Christian? Did anyone else catch on to this?

Posted by: kmonwilcox | February 25, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

where is Mr.Merkin?

Posted by: camis | February 25, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

re a comment above about it seeming unlikely that Jack would open up to Hurly about his feelings. Yeah, but then they all keep transforming as the story unfolds.

Jack may be getting less "I'll take charge" and more "I have feelings, too, you know."

My guess is that Hurly (sp) is becoming the go-to guy. And I have a feeling that he will be the first to have serious doubts about Jacob. Just a thought. Obviously.

Posted by: camis | February 25, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Some thoughts:

I'm now convinced that Jacob wrote the names of the candidates on the ceiling of the cave and MIB has been killing them off one way or the other and scratching the names off.

Hugo can see and talk to Jacob. Others cannot. Didn't Hugo have this ability off island? When he saw Charlie for example. I remember discussing back then that it seemed Hugo, off island, was crazy and saw dead people. On island he could not and seemed sane. Now he sees Jacob. Well, it seems Hugo's reason for being on the island is clear, Jacob needs him as a go-between to other people, for example, to get Jack to the lighthouse so he can make 7-years of bad luck.

I don't think Jack's son will have Juliet as his mother. Their lives never crossed paths if I remember right. I think the mother may be Jack's original wife who divorced him. They just had a kid before the divorce in this timeline. Something must have changed, possibly something in season 1, where Jack missed going home, or something like that, and missing a night with the wife. Maybe when Jack ran into Des. See ya in another life brotha.

As to who is coming to the island I think its Widmore, with Desmond and Penny too, maybe even Eloise. It'll be a party.

I'm starting to think the island was not "sunk". It was on the bottom of the ocean but it may have been purposely moved there to avoid bringing down F-815. I'm guessing it will resurface in some future episode when we see it sink.

I think Jin is done for. I can't see how he will survive being with MIB and Claire. And speaking of MIB, where was Sawyer? Wasn't he with MIB?

Posted by: Fate1 | February 25, 2010 7:03 PM | Report abuse

I'm holding tight on my own theory:
That Bernard and Rose getting away from everyone for their quiet little storyline about 'paradise found' (vs. Paradise 'Lost'?) might have a bigger role in any of this than anyone has seen yet. With all the time flashes last season, who knows where/when those two ended up? Lots more we could say here, but cwhere's comment above re: Bernard/Rose=Adam/Eve was one of the few mentions I've found. Got Milton?

Posted by: rocky626 | February 25, 2010 7:04 PM | Report abuse

One last thought ...

The progress Jacob talks about may be what we are seeing in the sideways timeline. Kate helping Claire, Jack being a better father. Claire let slip Aaron's name and could not figure out why. Their experience on the island may have been for this purpose, to change them so they will do things differently, either to prevent something bad or allow something good. Sorta like preventing Hitler from being born or allowing Einstein to be born. David, or Aaron, may be the whole reason these events happened. And if they do not get it right this time they'll go back to the 1800s again and start over, with Jacob working toward the good and MIB stuck along for the ride or trying to prevent the good. Or something like that.

Posted by: Fate1 | February 25, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

Fate1 - whoah, what you wrote about how Hugo could see dead people back home and now sees them (well, one) on the island made me think of how Jack found the cut on his neck on the plane, and the scar on his cute stomach. so... the timelines/experiences are starting to overlap, perhaps to merge altogether for better or worse for each character.

and voila: resolution to story. or not.

Posted by: camis | February 25, 2010 7:31 PM | Report abuse

belated reply @hmfmcg:

108 wasn't the course Michael and Walt took to leave the island; the compass bearing was 325. Think more will be revealed about 108 soon. http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/325

Posted by: ImTresbien | February 25, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Oooooooo, what if the person coming to the island is Walt? Ooooooooooooooooo

Posted by: Fate1 | February 25, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

No big developments in the last episode, Claire was obviously in cahoots with MIB when we saw her in Jacob's cabin, but at that time it appeared that MIB was acting as Christain Shepard. She did make a distiction between MIB and her father. But in this infected state, she is not the best source of information. Also Sawyer was supposedly MIB's first recruit, so what about Claire? I guess MIB needs to recruit candidates. So when Smokey goes to the Temple, he would likely try to recruit Sayyid. Jin is safe for now because MIB should want to recruit him as well. Apparently Jacob only cares about Jack.

Posted by: KevinAF | February 26, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I know I'm not the first to think of this, but if the bomb was detonated in 1977, then it seems the whole timeline since then, both on and off the island, is an alternate reality, perhaps changed in ways influenced by the Island experience. There are signs of this we've all noticed off-island in the changed circumstances and relationships of the former Losties. They were all damaged, but now at least some of them are less so. This change not only affects the survivors of the crash, but the other inhabitants of the island and perhaps all of us. In this scenario, it would be quite possible for Julie to have lived in LA and to have met and married Jack and for Benjamin Linus to have not grown up on the island.

Also, when we speak of Jacob and MIB representing good and evil, perhaps they really are two facets of a single entity, inasmuch as they represent the good and evil in each of us.

In any event, I love this show. Like great art, it doesn't need to answer all of the questions. It's enough that it continues to make us think. Not a lot of television does that.

Posted by: RaleighPhil | February 26, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

I think folks are forgetting that the scar that Jack notices is on his left side, the appendix scar would be on his right side and also about 4"-5" inches lower. The scar that he notices is from the repair that he performed with Kate's help during the 1st season's first show.

Posted by: AlfromAlexandria | February 26, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Didn't Jin see what happened to the frenchies when they became infected and tried to kill Rousseau? He may know Claire is also infected and is being very careful around her. Baby at the Temple? yes yes, baby at the Temple...

I agree with another poster from way up the page that Jacob wanted Jack at the lighthouse to break the mirrors. I also think the mirrors were used by MIB, not Jacob. Actually I think the who issue of bringing people to the island is MIB's. The names on the ceiling, crossing them out, etc, all MIB trying to stop Jacob.

Posted by: Fate1 | February 26, 2010 10:59 PM | Report abuse

Jack's appendectomy:

At the time I recalled the scar as being in the correct place, because as soon as I saw it I said the word to my son. We were seeing it in the mirror, so it was backwards.

But my later thought was that maybe it had never been an appendectomy at all. Remember how Jack was nervous because he thought Juliet was shaving two inches too high for a appendectomy? (And because he is not so good at letting go, of course!) He wanted to stay awake during the surgery and she was opposed. That plus the medical crisis the Others had faked on Sun made me suspicious.

But my lame question earlier regarding Jin (lying about Aaron) reminded me of the dangers of overthinking this show, so let's just say it was an infected appendix. Out of nowhere, for no apparent purpose in the plotline...

heh heh

Posted by: MeriJ | February 27, 2010 12:48 AM | Report abuse

AlfromAlexandria:

Sorry I just noticed that you said the scar was too high. I was mostly joking a minute ago, but now I'm getting paranoid.

I think it was Hunter Thompson was observed that it isn't paranoia if they really are out to get you.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 27, 2010 1:16 AM | Report abuse

Appendix screencap:

I am so confused. This is a mirror shot. So AlfromAlexandria is correct. Has this been widely reported? How could Jack not notice that the scar is on his left side?

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/gallery/g06f8ea043e38559b14239288077fc417/

Posted by: MeriJ | February 27, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Sleep-deprived appendix chatter:

Never mind!

At least I relearned some basic lessons about mirrors, which seems timely for this episode. Mission unaccomplished, indeed.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 27, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Late, but...Jack's scar matches Sayid's burn scar from the "diagnosis."

Posted by: lostinalaska | February 27, 2010 10:14 PM | Report abuse

maybe Juliet didn't take out Jack's appendix but did something else instead. some islandy kind of thing.

interesting connection to the burn scar on Sayid.

a mark of some kind? a sign? a signal? to someone? about something? yeah, i think that covers the possibilities.

Posted by: camis | February 28, 2010 11:44 PM | Report abuse

maybe Juliet implanted an embryo in Jack, since her whole deal is trying to help them have children on the island. in which case.... Jack's son is.... well HIS son. by c-section.
another scar. it could happen.

Posted by: camis | March 1, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Green eyes and freckles are not that common. I think young David's mother must be Kate. They selected that actor for a reason. Am I the only person who thought he looked like Kate? With his pouty mouth and furrowed brow?? And general annoyed personality???

And I am confused about why everyone thinks the young boy from last week, who appeared to MIB about the rules, is Aaron? Why do we think this again? I just thought he looked like a younger version of Jacob.

Posted by: a68comeback | March 1, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

One more question for everyone: "You have to die." Right? Isn't that the loophole? You must be dead in order to come back to the island and be inhabited by the MIB/smokie spirit? Wasn't that what Jack's (dead) dad told Locke? You have to die.

Posted by: a68comeback | March 1, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

The loophole and a68comeback's question:

Technically it was Ben who killed Jacob. I had been thinking the loophole was that Ben was a candidate and was on "Team Jacob."

But Locke was a candidate too, and as you say, it clearly mattered to MIB/Christian Shephard that Locke die off-island and that his body be returned to the island.

So maybe you're on to something. Maybe part of the loophole was that, to kill Jacob, MIB first had to commit himself to corporeal form -- which, per Ilana, he is now stuck in.

However, it's odd that MIB is not using Locke's actual body, no? He has Locke's memories and even some of his weaknesses & pet peeves. I couldn't believe it when he shouted "Don't tell me what I can't do!" I guess it's more of an avatar than a zombie thing.


In sum, I've decided the entire show will be explained by the location of a series of appendectomy or burn scars, AS VIEWED IN MIRRORS.

Posted by: MeriJ | March 1, 2010 7:07 PM | Report abuse

Keep coming back to Jack's son. I think someone above may have speculated that maybe Kate is the mother. I don't think that can be the answer in this timeline because we saw both Jack and Kate on the plane that landed at LAX and they clearly didn't appear to know each other, despite Jack's look at her as Kate got in the cab. I do think though that we will find out who the mother is if only because the producers went out of their way to not ID the mother in the last show.

Can't wait for tonights show. Enjoy.

Posted by: Emcdoj | March 2, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Article in the Washington Post reported the following from the Producers:

"Many of the questions posed during the run of "Lost" that have been keeping you up at night are never going to be answered on the show but will instead be tossed on the compost heap like an old turnip, because, the writers say, they have run out of time."

They actually stated that they had run out of time to answer all the questions raised on the show despite the fact that they have known since spring 2007 when the show would end. I guess we can now start speculating which questions won't be answered : - )

Posted by: Emcdoj | March 2, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I think many people here are waay too hard on jack, the reason why he is being put in situations of questioning himself and making the wrong decisions is that that makes a good leader and hero, I hate those shows where the leader or main character is always right always, it makes the show redundant, shows like 24, Burn Notice, Fringe, and the list goes on...to make a good hero you have to accept his faults and make him human so that redemption is going to be even sweeter, Jack the past two seasons has been taking a back seat and whiney but everyone will see in teh end Jack will come back strong, its like they keep sayin on the show about destiny, I think jack will find it.

Posted by: sbalaja1 | March 2, 2010 8:49 PM | Report abuse

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